**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Feb 04 02:59:58 2007 Feb 04 05:31:08 hi all Feb 04 05:34:43 counter Feb 04 05:34:43 a week 23:53:18 (7.995 days) for source for *all* developers and devices for selected developers (2007-02-11); a month, a week (35.995 days) for anybody (targeting developers) (preorders: not yet) (2007-03-11); 7 months, a week (219.995 days) for mass market (2007-09-11): see topic for more info Feb 04 05:35:38 cool Feb 04 05:35:43 so ... Feb 04 05:35:57 8 days eh Feb 04 09:07:43 what will be the preferred IRC client on the Neo? Feb 04 09:16:22 irssi;) Feb 04 09:16:53 (it just a tip) Feb 04 09:17:28 irc is seriously crappy with a touchscreen Feb 04 09:23:55 it's not on n800 with thumb keyboard Feb 04 09:25:22 you must have different definition of crappy ;) Feb 04 09:25:41 unless by thumb keyboard you mean a real small one Feb 04 09:26:02 no, I mean a fullscreen touch scree nkeyboard you use with your thumbs Feb 04 09:26:11 my thumbs are too big for that Feb 04 09:26:12 we did some tests against mylo hw keyboard Feb 04 09:26:26 and the thumb touchscreen keyboard is WAY faster Feb 04 09:26:38 havent seen a mylo in real Feb 04 09:26:43 if you don't have bug thumbs Feb 04 09:26:56 koen: could be... Feb 04 09:27:19 koen: but if you have big finger you're screwed anyways with other smallish hw-keyboards Feb 04 09:27:25 right Feb 04 09:27:26 *fingers Feb 04 09:27:44 guess why I don't use small keyboards :) Feb 04 09:28:33 obviously, that's not to say that thumb keyboard is better than hw keyboard Feb 04 09:28:51 * rwhitby will be moving from a tre650 to the neo, so will need something that works as well as the treo ptpchat program. Same for reading email and browsing IRC logs over the web. Feb 04 09:28:54 since the thumb fullscreen keyboard has an disadvantage that it covers the screen while you're typing Feb 04 09:29:05 but for irc/chatting that's not that important Feb 04 09:29:27 since you usually do "one sentence fire and forget" Feb 04 09:31:27 the real problem with all thumb-usable devices is that the screen gets greasy Feb 04 09:31:30 MDK: I'd love to see the thumbkb include the last line of text in the text entry Feb 04 09:31:39 and, AFAIK, there is no any solution to that Feb 04 09:31:55 koen: that would be cool Feb 04 09:31:58 wash your hands more often :) Feb 04 09:32:11 I'm afraid it would need a bigger input methods integration Feb 04 09:32:17 voice recog is a solution Feb 04 09:32:50 vopi to india + typist. Feb 04 09:32:57 hah Feb 04 09:33:53 i wonder how they solve the grease problem with iphone Feb 04 09:34:08 marketing Feb 04 09:35:01 hhehe Feb 04 09:35:07 RDF Feb 04 09:35:47 * buz is confused Feb 04 09:36:02 i just noticed my laptop has 80/8/6 as system date Feb 04 09:36:56 japanese locale settings? (6 Aug 1980) Feb 04 09:53:34 yes Feb 04 09:53:40 somethings very wrong Feb 04 09:53:48 i can set it to be ok again, no problem there Feb 04 09:53:56 i wonder if it will happen again next time i suspend to ram Feb 04 11:49:54 counter Feb 04 11:49:55 a week 17:38:05 (7.735 days) for source for *all* developers and devices for selected developers (2007-02-11); a month, a week (35.735 days) for anybody (targeting developers) (preorders: not yet) (2007-03-11); 7 months, a week (219.735 days) for mass market (2007-09-11): see topic for more info Feb 04 12:41:29 hi Feb 04 12:43:23 quite a bit of people sitting and not much talking. How's everyone doing? [I'm sitting behind a painfully slow firewall in a teashop in Shanghai] Feb 04 12:43:48 I am currently trying to get up the energy to put my house walls insides back on. Feb 04 12:43:53 After ripping them all out. Feb 04 12:44:11 hehe...nice. Feb 04 12:44:30 hmm, i just cleaning my flat and have a umts connection to the internet. nothing interesting ;) Feb 04 12:45:26 * SpeedEvil offers ChrisBradley some psuedephedrine. Feb 04 12:45:27 oops Feb 04 12:45:50 http://www.mauve.plus.com/walls/ hte current state Feb 04 12:46:20 howdy sean Feb 04 12:46:44 I think mostly we've left the 'blue-sky' stuff to the mailing list now :) Feb 04 12:46:46 hey sean_mosko Feb 04 12:46:48 counter Feb 04 12:46:48 a week 16:41:11 (7.695 days) for source for *all* developers and devices for selected developers (2007-02-11); a month, a week (35.695 days) for anybody (targeting developers) (preorders: not yet) (2007-03-11); 7 months, a week (219.695 days) for mass market (2007-09-11): see topic for more info Feb 04 12:48:30 koen: you'll be at FOSDEM right? Feb 04 12:49:02 he's better be, I want to drool over that device :) Feb 04 12:49:32 Hi Sean! Feb 04 12:49:51 sean_mosko: yes Feb 04 12:49:51 hehe...I'll have some there with me. Feb 04 12:50:42 hey lrg Feb 04 12:50:49 <-- get's some food. Feb 04 12:51:04 sean_mosko: you do realise you're not sleeping the whole 3 days, right? Feb 04 12:51:14 koen: great. we'll have to get some beers with mickey. he's got his PhD defense really soon. Probably be all stressed out at that point. Feb 04 12:51:24 stephmw: i don't sleep. Feb 04 12:52:19 sean_mosko: I remember working with a supplier in .tw, they had their guys working 11-hour days, are you on those too? Feb 04 12:52:46 oh man...i seriously work from 8 AM to 2 AM. Sometimes even longer. Feb 04 12:52:47 hey koen Feb 04 12:54:33 sean_mosko: planning a well deserved holiday after the launch? Feb 04 12:55:00 sean_mosko: I suspect it will go like this: http://www.flickr.com/photos/koenkooi/379165991/ Feb 04 12:55:14 stephmw: you bet! I'm searching out islands now in the south pacific. my favorite is tavarua. but it's really expensive to stay there. Feb 04 12:56:22 hmm, the only one I know of is vanuatu - but I don't think it's a tourist heaven Feb 04 12:56:32 koen: you need to add notes with names to that pic Feb 04 12:57:00 sean_mosko: for mickey, http://www.phdcomics.com/comics/archive.php?comicid=810 Feb 04 12:57:36 oh, and http://www.phdcomics.com/comics/archive.php?comicid=816 Feb 04 12:57:49 stephmw: http://www.tavarua.com/ (it's THE surfers' paradise) Feb 04 12:58:41 koen: looks like mickey's about to puke ;-) Feb 04 12:59:27 sean_mosko: aaaaah, Fiji, figures Feb 04 13:00:03 Stephmw: notes added Feb 04 13:00:39 koen: ta muchly Feb 04 13:07:47 i am très bored Feb 04 13:17:07 Stephmw: with the notes added you should have enough information on how to bribe mickey|tv :) Feb 04 13:18:31 koen: bribing is good, it's separate category in my kphotoalbum :) Feb 04 15:18:41 hello up there... Feb 04 15:21:12 Does anyone have speaker recognition software running on Linux? (a.k.a. voice print) Feb 04 15:21:39 a.k.a. speaker verification Feb 04 15:32:53 nice, Sean was here Feb 04 15:34:01 Reminds me to write him a mail. Feb 04 15:35:44 Elrond: surely he's used to your "Is it ready yet?" emails by now? :D Feb 04 15:35:47 * Stephmw hides Feb 04 15:36:07 SpeedEvil - *lol* Feb 04 15:36:19 Huh. Feb 04 15:36:23 Stephmw - *lol* Feb 04 15:36:34 Stephmw wants to try the pillory ;) Feb 04 17:27:58 counter Feb 04 17:28:00 a week 12:00:02 (7.500 days) for source for *all* developers and devices for selected developers (2007-02-11); a month, a week (35.500 days) for anybody (targeting developers) (preorders: not yet) (2007-03-11); 7 months, a week (219.500 days) for mass market (2007-09-11): see topic for more info Feb 04 17:28:00 :-P Feb 04 17:29:09 A week is a long time in phonetics. Feb 04 17:30:09 * wm_eddie would like one of those selected developer phones... Feb 04 17:30:27 who wouldn't? Feb 04 17:30:46 I wouldn't. Feb 04 17:30:58 * koen still has to wait approx one week before getting one Feb 04 17:31:02 I probably can't devote enough time to it at teh moment. Feb 04 17:31:19 I probably can't either, but if I had one I'd try really hard. Feb 04 17:31:51 I have actual large holes in my house. Feb 04 17:31:56 has anyone received a phone yet? Feb 04 17:31:56 That I really need to fix. Feb 04 17:32:01 :) Feb 04 17:32:09 DukeOfURL: scroll up ~4 minutes Feb 04 17:32:30 Since the phone is made in tw should I expect cjk support... I'm mostly interested in J though. Feb 04 17:32:40 so nobody here has actually seen one? Feb 04 17:33:32 The people who have built the ones that are going to be shipped in a week probably have. Feb 04 17:33:41 duh Feb 04 17:33:53 nobody *here* Feb 04 17:34:41 maybe :-) Feb 04 17:34:57 SpeedEvil: holes? are you in Florida? Feb 04 17:35:04 search for 'openmoko' on flickr Feb 04 17:35:25 Hopefully SpeedEvil isn't in Pittsburgh, it's going to be nearly -20C tonight. Feb 04 17:35:35 No - I'm ripping off all the plasterboard to insulate, then replacing with new. Feb 04 17:36:03 Also - needing to replace tiles in one strip, and lead over the eaves. Feb 04 17:41:09 The water boiler under my kitchen sink is flooding--I've got water all over the floor :=( Feb 04 17:43:31 ouch :( Feb 04 17:43:35 Do you know where the isolator valve is? Feb 04 17:43:43 Gas or electric? Feb 04 17:44:04 electric + water doesn't sound like a good combination. Feb 04 17:44:11 It can be quite safe. Feb 04 17:48:09 I've got everything turned off and have mopped the floor. Feb 04 17:48:24 A plastic fitting on the water main broke. Feb 04 17:48:55 And nobody supplied parts for Franke appliances. Feb 04 17:49:02 supplies Feb 04 17:50:11 Back to Neo--does anyone know about speaker recognition aka speaker identification aka speaker verification? Feb 04 17:50:27 I'm looking for a biometric identification method. Feb 04 17:53:57 Sounds a bit utopistic on such a small device. Feb 04 17:54:12 just software... Feb 04 17:58:50 With the openmoko, will users be able to access the gps? Feb 04 17:59:07 of course not Feb 04 17:59:13 you have to pay $$$ for that Feb 04 17:59:20 har har. I didn't see the wiki before Feb 04 17:59:21 Feb 04 18:01:22 me.dium + gps :) Feb 04 18:05:39 koen, little correction: tinymail does not fork the entire eds framework Feb 04 18:06:02 it only uses a modified part of a version of a component of eds Feb 04 18:06:13 being camel :) Feb 04 18:06:35 which is a component that is very disconnected form the rest of the eds framework Feb 04 18:06:40 s/form/from Feb 04 18:06:50 yes, I read your mails and blog posts Feb 04 18:06:55 ok :) Feb 04 18:06:57 pvanhoof: so if we compile eds without camel there is no duplication? Feb 04 18:07:00 I'm not a user, I get things the first time around Feb 04 18:07:05 koen: :) Feb 04 18:07:14 pH5, exactly Feb 04 18:07:19 koen, I just wanted to echo that, to avoid any confusion :) Feb 04 18:07:28 but I understand that it might have been unclear Feb 04 18:07:47 evo2 is a mess Feb 04 18:07:56 pH5, the duplication will be limited to ... a reeeaaallly small piece of code Feb 04 18:08:10 https://svn.tinymail.org/svn/tinymail/trunk/libtinymail-camel/camel-lite/libedataserver/ Feb 04 18:08:13 that part of eds Feb 04 18:08:18 and .. Feb 04 18:08:41 if you want to really really avoid that, you can also let the configure.ac of camel-lite link with eds's original libedataserver Feb 04 18:09:04 https://svn.tinymail.org/svn/tinymail/trunk/libtinymail-camel/camel-lite/camel/Makefile.am Feb 04 18:09:14 268K usr/lib/libcamel-1.2.so.0.0.0 Feb 04 18:09:17 $(top_builddir)/libedataserver/libedataserver-${API_VERSION}.a Feb 04 18:09:19 that one Feb 04 18:09:26 140K usr/lib/libebook-1.2.so.5.0.2 Feb 04 18:09:37 300kB Feb 04 18:09:37 replace it with the location of the .la (the la yes, not the a) of libedataserver Feb 04 18:09:38 that's not "really small" Feb 04 18:09:40 a means statically linked Feb 04 18:09:48 la means dynamically linked Feb 04 18:10:08 koen, oh but I mean the libedataserver part Feb 04 18:10:24 that 300kb is just part of tinymail. If you add everything together .. you must count ~ 2MB for tinymail Feb 04 18:10:35 storage space for the libraries and include files and etc etc Feb 04 18:10:57 and without debugging symbols, ~1.5 MB I think Feb 04 18:11:03 wait, I have a page for this on the trac Feb 04 18:11:17 pH5: I think a bit more granular packaging for eds-dbus would help a lot Feb 04 18:11:17 http://tinymail.org/trac/tinymail/wiki/LibrarySizes Feb 04 18:11:33 pH5: compare http://www.angstrom-distribution.org/repo/?name=tinymail&action=search with http://www.angstrom-distribution.org/repo/?name=eds&action=search Feb 04 18:11:42 right, it was 1.4 MB for the stripped binaries for tinymail Feb 04 18:11:46 With OpenMoko ipkg-files, what should one put in the architecture field? Feb 04 18:11:57 by that I mean that if you put that 1.4 MB on it, next to a recent glib, that you have it running fully Feb 04 18:12:01 zipola: nothing, let OE handle it Feb 04 18:12:15 so that's all of tinymail, including the libedataserver pieces and the camel pieces Feb 04 18:12:22 gtg now Feb 04 18:12:38 Does that mean that I should create packages through OE? Feb 04 18:12:40 zipola: yes Feb 04 18:13:04 gone... feel free to ask more when I'm back :) Feb 04 18:13:54 somehow the right one looks cheap: http://www.flickr.com/photos/palmsolo/350847584/in/photostream/ Feb 04 18:15:10 "Hi, I'm made of uebercheap plastic" Feb 04 18:16:00 http://www.flickr.com/photos/palmsolo/353166962/ looks pretty neat Feb 04 18:16:29 I wonder if you can open that with a flick of the wrist. Feb 04 18:17:07 * koen tries to read the print Feb 04 18:17:12 "SXGen"? Feb 04 18:17:58 http://www.prnewswire.com/mnr/sxgen/26495/ Feb 04 18:18:21 "Based around the intel PXA 270 Xscale™ 520 MHz processor, the base S-XGen includes 256MB of RAM, a 20GB hard drive and Wi-Fi, Bluetooth and tri-band cellular wireless and direct Ethernet, USB and RJ45 connectivity. A 4-inch TFT 470 x 280 resolution touch screen" Feb 04 18:20:07 http://www.slwf.net/main-site/downloads/SXGENData.pdf: M.S.R.P with Microsoft Office included: $1,395.00 :) Feb 04 18:20:25 5 neos :) Feb 04 18:22:53 hello folks. my father just asked me if the openMoKo cellphone would be able to connect to the cellphone communication network something in germany Feb 04 18:22:59 YUes. Feb 04 18:23:07 germany uses GSM. Feb 04 18:23:16 So it will make calls there. Feb 04 18:23:21 If that's what you are asking. Feb 04 18:23:23 he says something about a "D-netz" and an "E-netz" and something Feb 04 18:23:34 and that america uses something completely different Feb 04 18:23:41 it used to. Feb 04 18:23:50 The whole of europe now uses GSM. Feb 04 18:23:58 And large parts of america are switching to it. Feb 04 18:24:07 The neo only supports GSM. Feb 04 18:24:26 timonator, umm... the US doesn't have a single system. we have 3 or so Feb 04 18:24:27 It will work with any german carrier, though only some USA ones. Feb 04 18:24:29 including GSM Feb 04 18:24:50 Clarification: It will not work with '3G' carriers. Feb 04 18:25:19 the next version will though I hear Feb 04 18:25:30 SpeedEvil: are there 3G only carriers in germany? Feb 04 18:25:38 SpeedEvil: aren't 3G networks backward-compatible with GSM? Feb 04 18:25:46 No. Feb 04 18:25:54 There are seperate frequency allocations. Feb 04 18:25:58 '3G' means GSM + UMTS Feb 04 18:26:07 it will use gsm for voice and UMTS for data Feb 04 18:26:17 the phones generally, yeah, work on "2g" networks also Feb 04 18:26:29 the *UMTS* frequencies were allocated seperately Feb 04 18:26:31 However, the carrier may not allow you to use a 2G only phone. Feb 04 18:26:37 Oh. Feb 04 18:26:53 For example, '3' in the UK will blacklist a SIM if you're using it in a 2G only phone. Feb 04 18:27:29 As there buisness plan is selling video clips/... content through the UTMS side. Feb 04 18:27:33 that just makes '3' a crummy provider Feb 04 18:27:50 Well - yes - they were the first with UTMS to the UK. Feb 04 18:27:52 my '3g' subscriptions allows me to use a 2.5G phone Feb 04 18:28:11 By quite a margain, with _heavily_ subsidised handsets. Feb 04 18:28:46 To the extent that some retailers were offering on some phones 100% cashback after 1 year. Feb 04 18:30:58 will the openmoko software/cellphone play those java based games? (i see no reason it wouldn't) Feb 04 18:31:31 a friend of mine worked for "3" for a while Feb 04 18:31:47 she had 4 3G phones which she took to london.pm meetings Feb 04 18:31:56 and we played with video conferencing across the bar :-P Feb 04 18:32:08 timonator: if someone ports closed-source java me (IIRC, Sun did not publish open-source ME yet) - yes. Feb 04 18:32:19 ah i see Feb 04 18:32:27 that was 5 years ago tho, before the company actually started selling service. Feb 04 18:32:31 actually, sun _did_ publish java ME as free Feb 04 18:32:48 and yeah, it needs porting and adapting to openembedded Feb 04 18:33:03 mjr: free as a speech or beer? Feb 04 18:33:19 speech. Feb 04 18:33:25 good. Feb 04 18:34:15 yeah, the release was part of their java-gpling campaign Feb 04 18:34:34 it's just a matter of time. they will release it Feb 04 18:36:12 as said, they did already (if we're still talking ME) Feb 04 18:36:17 Free Java's in Debian already Feb 04 18:36:32 so it'll be in openembed soon I espect Feb 04 18:36:33 expect Feb 04 18:37:46 koen did some preliminary package attempts but there was some problems; nobody else has been game to try it for now. Probably will at some point, though, yeah. Feb 04 18:37:47 kdrive is the X server it uses, yes? i'm a little bit of a gamer person. will the cpu power allow for some small games to be developed with, say, SDL or directly in xlib? (ugh!) Feb 04 18:38:20 timonator, yes, and SDL seems to be the recommended thing for things like that Feb 04 18:41:20 (the developers have also mentioned that hardware scrolling across a larger virtual viewport is possible, though not sure if software support for switching to an arbitrary virtual res will be in at first) Feb 04 18:43:18 but the whole flash memory of the phone can be altered and updated? Feb 04 18:43:31 It's not. Feb 04 18:43:39 SpeedEvil, avk Feb 04 18:43:41 ack Feb 04 18:43:44 The display hardware only supports one res. Feb 04 18:43:58 It's the display itself that switches to qvga Feb 04 18:44:04 320*240 Feb 04 18:44:24 Or rather - there is no possible way to 'stretch' things to fill the screen. Feb 04 18:44:27 timonator, you can play nethack at full resolution with all the action you demand! Feb 04 18:44:35 fair enough, however, I was talking about virtual scrollable res, not physical Feb 04 18:45:02 emacsen: how about the input? nethack uses quite a lot of keys Feb 04 18:45:12 nethack with 0 buttons. Feb 04 18:45:13 (QVGA aside, though that's great too, whatever component does that) Feb 04 18:45:14 Oh joy. Feb 04 18:45:30 gestures, or buttons for most actions, or menus. there are gui nethack versions Feb 04 18:45:36 There are. Feb 04 18:45:48 But they typically take up a lot of the screen with the UI. Feb 04 18:45:58 And there isn't much screen. Feb 04 18:46:33 SpeedEvil, yeah I have concerns about text on the openmoko too Feb 04 18:46:39 erm the neo Feb 04 18:49:23 heya Feb 04 18:51:02 morning :) Feb 04 18:52:34 I think 80*25 is going to be readable at 20cm. Feb 04 18:52:41 For me at least - not 30cm. Feb 04 18:56:08 hey all Feb 04 18:57:35 so, what's the screen resolution of the Neo device? Feb 04 18:57:46 640x480 Feb 04 18:59:49 at what dpi? Feb 04 18:59:54 200? Feb 04 19:00:06 285dpi Feb 04 19:00:09 ~counter Feb 04 19:00:13 OMG Feb 04 19:00:19 really?! Feb 04 19:00:21 200dpi equals a 4" screen at 640x480 Feb 04 19:00:23 yup Feb 04 19:00:33 O...M...G Feb 04 19:00:50 "omfg it's so fucking good" or "omfg noone can read that stuff"? Feb 04 19:00:59 * behdad always thought when we get 300dpi screens we can forget about all the patented hinting and subpixel rendering shit Feb 04 19:01:06 f good Feb 04 19:01:08 behdad: http://www.openmoko.com/press/index.html would have told you the same Feb 04 19:01:23 pH5: that would be the highest resolution small screen I've ever seen, so I expect you made a mistake? Feb 04 19:01:30 koen: sorry. kinda wanted to open up a conversation :) Feb 04 19:02:05 cjb: seems like its true Feb 04 19:02:14 cheers behdad: you're the behdad from gnome-performance? Feb 04 19:02:27 * koen hints at http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=90621 again Feb 04 19:02:43 mickey|tv: yeah. I'm kinda the only behdad in free software Feb 04 19:02:44 mickey|tv: Mr Pango would be a better title :) Feb 04 19:03:14 * behdad is named Pango in SecondLife Feb 04 19:03:27 behdad: excellent. glad you found your way in here. I'm following your pango magic with interest. Feb 04 19:04:12 mickey|tv: I recently found some time to setup my n770 and olpc for development, so I thought I may hang around here too. Feb 04 19:04:29 behdad: cool. we are having serious performance problems w/ pixmap engines in gtk+ 2.6... think you could do your magic to that when you have a chance? :) Feb 04 19:04:32 olpc is out? Feb 04 19:04:45 MetaBookfoziS: for developers. Feb 04 19:04:49 mickey|tv: where can I read about it? Feb 04 19:04:51 opjep. Feb 04 19:04:59 * koen hints at http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=90621 again Feb 04 19:05:21 behdad: unfortunately i didn't have time to publish anything yet. it's just that drawing takes ages on our s3c2410 Feb 04 19:05:25 mickey|tv: we have lots of hardcore hackers around cairo these days. pixmap engines in gtk+ should seriously be deprecated and/or merged with cairo Feb 04 19:05:38 mickey|tv: are you scaling? blending? Feb 04 19:06:25 we're getting pretty awful performance on OLPC, 'cause our CPU only supports alpha-blending in the same graphics format, and cairo doesn't know about the format our CPU accelerates. Feb 04 19:06:28 behdad: I'm using engine "pixmap", both scaling pixmaps and alphablending (where it works... it doesn't for some critical UI elements like GTK_SHADOW but that's another sad story) Feb 04 19:06:51 it would be good to have a generic gtk/gnome-performance-on-small-devices mailing list :) Feb 04 19:07:09 cjb: there is an embedded-list iirc. not open unfortunately Feb 04 19:07:22 we tried to get on the embedded-list Feb 04 19:07:27 no response sofar Feb 04 19:07:40 maybe FIC should donate to the gnome-foundation Feb 04 19:07:42 *cough* Feb 04 19:07:50 cjb: and dan was telling about your problems to us (krh mostly) . the problem is that you can't get sensible alpha and color in 16bits Feb 04 19:08:14 behdad: yeah. Feb 04 19:08:14 * behdad will follow up on the embedded-list issue Feb 04 19:08:42 silly q: are arms bigendian? Feb 04 19:08:58 * SpeedEvil looks at his arms, and discovers they end in littles. Feb 04 19:09:00 they can do both Feb 04 19:09:08 switchable Feb 04 19:09:10 I see Feb 04 19:09:22 so what do nokia and openmoko systems use? Feb 04 19:09:25 LE Feb 04 19:09:28 k Feb 04 19:09:33 armv4le Feb 04 19:09:34 but it gets better Feb 04 19:09:41 openmoko stores floats in BE Feb 04 19:09:42 so do they have a fast LE<->BE convertor opcode? Feb 04 19:09:50 all arms? I know the armv4l can do both Feb 04 19:10:06 Kero: IIRC anything above arm7, but i'm not sure on that Feb 04 19:11:33 behdad: so, back to the performance problems. atm., we are trying to finish hardware and base integration issues to ship the first batch of phones. once this is somehow stable, i'd like to give you and [perhaps you can recommend someone] a Neo to take a look at the performance problems. Would you be interested? Feb 04 19:12:02 counter Feb 04 19:12:02 a week 10:15:55 (7.428 days) for source for *all* developers and devices for selected developers (2007-02-11); a month, a week (35.428 days) for anybody (targeting developers) (preorders: not yet) (2007-03-11); 7 months, a week (219.428 days) for mass market (2007-09-11): see topic for more info Feb 04 19:12:54 behdad: see http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=350973 for an explanation from BE/LE and floats on arm Feb 04 19:13:19 mickey|tv: sure. I'll pass you name(s) for other people who surely will help you. Feb 04 19:14:02 behdad: excellent. please send us a mail to coreteam@internal.openmoko.org introducing you and I'll make sure you guys get handsets once hw is stable. Feb 04 19:14:02 * koen envisions Dan Amelang getting buried in slow ARM devices :) Feb 04 19:14:20 mickey|tv: will do. thanks! Feb 04 19:14:28 np, thank you for all your work. Feb 04 19:14:34 * mickey|tv wanders off to relax some more Feb 04 19:15:26 any plan to move to gtk+ 2.10 here? Feb 04 19:15:33 cairo's so sexy these days... Feb 04 19:16:02 gtk 2.10.x is still slower as 2.6 Feb 04 19:16:50 koen: text rendering has catched up at least :) Feb 04 19:16:56 I know Feb 04 19:17:24 hopefully we can get back to core performance hacking when gnome 2.18 is out Feb 04 19:17:25 I (and a few others) maintain cairo/pango/gtk+ in OE Feb 04 19:17:48 is the graphics chip capable of opengl (glitz?) that cairo supports? Feb 04 19:18:09 Kero: there isn't really a graphics chip, just a dump framebuffer Feb 04 19:18:41 the 3d capable chips found on ARMs (omap2, pxa270w) all have closed drivers Feb 04 19:18:54 * Kero wasn't expecting anything fancy Feb 04 19:20:05 try mesa Feb 04 19:20:07 lol Feb 04 19:20:23 better try vincent, or some other opengl-es implementation Feb 04 19:21:55 Who needs 3D graphics? ;) Feb 04 19:22:37 to make fancy 3D renderings of mountains I'll hike! Feb 04 19:22:38 not I. I just need Japanese input and ability to read Japanese e-mails. Feb 04 19:22:41 dude haven't you heard of microsofts new smartphone that runs vista? i heard it uses a holographic display which makes windows appear to float in front of the screen! ant it does 1024x786 resolution! Feb 04 19:22:41 * koen wants google earth on his neo Feb 04 19:22:48 O wait, I'll have a view on the real mountains, then. Feb 04 19:22:55 me, too Feb 04 19:23:05 tim - and 5 seconds battery life! Feb 04 19:23:25 cbpage: the 5 seconds of YOUR LIFE! Feb 04 19:23:35 :) Feb 04 19:23:38 5 seconde PS3 Feb 04 19:26:13 wm_eddie: do you know if there is any free HWR system for linux that supports kanji+kana? Feb 04 19:26:56 There's a couple... Feb 04 19:27:57 pH5: there was KanjiPad that Owen Taylor did years ago Feb 04 19:28:03 Kanjipad... yeah Feb 04 19:28:15 behdad: I know, but this is for kanji only. Feb 04 19:28:16 http://fishsoup.net/software/kanjipad/ Feb 04 19:28:21 right Feb 04 19:28:42 http://userpage.fu-berlin.de/~zabel/gpe-kanjipad/gpe-kanjipad-screenshot.png Feb 04 19:29:09 that's why I asked, but I never found a free backend for kana recognition that I could use. Feb 04 19:29:58 it's based on jstroke. maybe that has newer versions that do Feb 04 19:32:25 * wm_eddie looks at that jstroke/readme.txt Feb 04 19:34:16 It looks like it's gpl to me... Feb 04 19:34:21 Unless I'm missing something. Feb 04 19:50:00 happy 2.6.20 day Feb 04 19:51:55 woot :) Feb 04 19:54:33 so we only need to update over 3 kernel versions for the neo Feb 04 21:31:25 pvanhoof, rejon: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/openmoko-devel/2007-February/000230.html Feb 04 21:32:02 cool koen Feb 04 21:32:23 We can certainly put some effort into making it easy to package the camel parts of tinymail Feb 04 21:32:44 pvanhoof: http://www.angstrom-distribution.org/repo/?name=tinymail&action=search Feb 04 21:32:53 It would of course be great of ross and mallum could be convinced to have the camel-lite of tinymail into eds-dbus Feb 04 21:33:10 but as I said ... they are only interested to "phased" bring upstream camel to their eds Feb 04 21:33:41 koen, it might be useful to put a SVN-revision number in the filenames somehwere Feb 04 21:33:50 as those are packages of an unreleased tinymail :) Feb 04 21:34:03 so that people *know* that this ain't the final package Feb 04 21:34:26 pvanhoof: click on one of the packages Feb 04 21:34:38 ok, I see now Feb 04 21:34:44 cool, thanks for the effort Feb 04 21:34:58 sadly I can't get the revision number back from the svn fetcher Feb 04 21:35:03 feel free to post updates about your packages on the mailinglist and/or make a wiki page about it on tinymail's trac Feb 04 21:35:09 but with svn dates are almost as good Feb 04 21:35:10 hmm, svn info? Feb 04 21:35:40 oh but at the speed of committing :), dates might not say a lot about the API :D Feb 04 21:35:50 unless you add minutes :) Feb 04 21:35:50 I would not be hard to put that into the bitbake svn fetcher, but python is starting to make my eyes bleed Feb 04 21:35:58 I can imagine Feb 04 21:36:28 so are you packaging for openmoko now koen ? ;) Feb 04 21:36:47 openmoko uses OE, so I guess "yes" Feb 04 21:36:56