**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Feb 15 02:59:57 2007 Feb 15 03:01:32 hmm.. seems we are not at /. yet and don't see any big story either (6 digs), 7% increase in nick counts from 8 days ago: Feb 15 03:01:33 nick count records: 106 2006-12-04; 108 2006-12-07; 109 2006-12-12; 114 2006-12-13; 116 2006-12-20; 134 2007-01-11; 141 2007-01-12; 143 2007-01-13; 157 2007-01-15; 163 2007-01-16 ; 182 2007-01-17; 185 2007-01-19 ; 197 2007-01-20 ; 201 2007-01-21; 205 2007-01-22; 206 2007-01-23; 211 2007-01-25; 215 2007-01-26; 219 2007-02-01; 228 2007-02-05; 231 2007-02-06; 238 2007-02-13; 247 2007-02-14 Feb 15 03:02:29 well i know the NE america is going crazy with snow Feb 15 03:03:11 i only happened to see that source was released today after i got home this afternoon Feb 15 03:04:22 still wiki was down yesterday? (only read part of irc logs and mails) I guess its going to get pretty bad with bigger attention Feb 15 03:07:51 aloril: was only down for a very short time Feb 15 03:18:31 aloril. there is some backup infrstructure now that can be thrown in Feb 15 03:21:54 Hmm - where to get qmake from ... Feb 15 03:24:37 * aloril wonders what would be best link as response to "Where is source code?" Feb 15 03:29:10 <[g2]> rwhitby qmake I think come from qt Feb 15 03:29:48 libqt4-dev (I've updated the wiki) Feb 15 03:30:49 <[g2]> rwhitby did you get you phone yet ? Feb 15 03:30:57 [g2]: see /topic Feb 15 03:31:05 end of the month Feb 15 03:31:11 <[g2]> ah Feb 15 03:31:35 hmm - /topic has not been updated with latest delays info Feb 15 03:31:57 <[g2]> it's a big topic :) Feb 15 03:32:38 <[g2]> rwhitby do you know if they are slipping month later avialability ? Feb 15 03:33:44 counter Feb 15 03:33:45 P0: 2 weeks 07:53:03 (8.329 - 14.329 days); P1: 30.329 - 45.329; P2: 198.329 - 228.329 (long: "/msg aloril counter?") (332) Feb 15 03:38:54 <[g2]> counter? Feb 15 03:38:54 source: http://svn.openmoko.org/ ; 2 weeks 07:47:55 (8.325 - 14.325 days) for devices for selected developers (2007-02-28); a month, 2 weeks (30.325 - 45.325 days) for devices for *ANYBODY* for $350 (targeting developers) (preorders: not yet) (2007-03-31); 7 months, 2 weeks (198.325 - 228.325 days) for mass market (2007-09-30): see topic for more info (333) Feb 15 03:40:36 hmm.. 2007-02-14 18:37:15 --- mickeyl has changed the topic to: OpenMoko Developer Lounge | http://www.openmoko.org | Wiki contains Mockups, not screenshots! Feb 15 03:41:02 2007-02-14 22:29:51 --- ChanServ has changed the topic to: ...(to what it is now, back to old)... Feb 15 03:46:15 aloril: I don't think the wiki ever went down as such. Feb 15 03:46:21 It just got rather slow. Feb 15 03:46:40 It'll go down when it hits /. Feb 15 03:46:57 What would be handy would be a .tar.gz of the whole wiki. Feb 15 03:47:13 On a seperate server, updated every 6 hours or so. Feb 15 03:47:24 Served up by bittorrent. Feb 15 03:49:20 SpeedEvil: yeah Feb 15 03:50:01 * aloril guesses this is fine: source: http://svn.openmoko.org/ is just fine (and 'link' to topic) Feb 15 03:50:21 though this is another option: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Building_OpenMoko_from_scratch_%28pre-BBT%29 Feb 15 03:53:56 aloril: just like to www.openmoko.org - they can find it from there (if they can't then they're not smart enough to do anything useful with the source code :-) Feb 15 03:54:01 s/like/link/ Feb 15 03:54:03 rwhitby meant: aloril: just link to www.openmoko.org - they can find it from there (if they can't then they're not smart enough to do anything useful with the source code :-) Feb 15 03:54:49 rwhitby: I guess so, better than just raw source Feb 15 04:09:29 give it to us raw and wriggling Feb 15 04:15:29 SpeedEvil: yeah, I guess at least kernel driver indeed is single touch: http://svn.openmoko.org/trunk/src/target/kernel/patches/qt2410-touchscreen.patch Feb 15 04:16:37 vibrator too is on/off but maybe with timing could achieve interesting effects ( gta01-vibrator.patch ) Feb 15 04:18:00 aloril: Though it seems that the vibrator is not connected on a PWM capable PIN Feb 15 04:18:58 shucks Feb 15 04:19:13 You don't care. Feb 15 04:19:23 i guess at 1000hz you can still do some pwm Feb 15 04:19:34 The vibrator current will swamp the extra current usage of doing it in the CPU. Feb 15 04:19:55 not even that much if you do it via kernel timers :) Feb 15 04:20:02 heh, true :-) Feb 15 04:20:07 And you're not going to notice any jitter, in a device as lumpy as the vibrator. Feb 15 04:20:50 I had - for some years - a trivial script to control my laptop fan, running every quarter of a second, and turning the fan on and off. Feb 15 04:21:13 Worked fine, with no noticable variation apart from under load. Feb 15 04:21:17 Well, almost 6am here and oe bails out on openmoko-mainmenu Feb 15 04:21:25 I should really get to bed Feb 15 04:21:28 sleep well Feb 15 04:21:31 WAve. Feb 15 04:21:33 good night Feb 15 04:21:34 Goodnight. Feb 15 04:38:58 * aloril wonders which one will get it first, /. or digg (its in digg, but low profile: http://www.digg.com/hardware/Open_Moko_go_public ) Feb 15 04:40:49 I think I've got most of it in my browser cache anyway. Feb 15 04:40:59 Bittorrent would be really nice. Feb 15 04:42:12 anyway, good for us ;-) Feb 15 04:42:30 Yeah. Feb 15 04:42:35 It's the utterly wrong solution. Feb 15 04:42:52 As we want all the nice people from slashdot/digg. Feb 15 05:17:08 * aloril wonders how long it will take before openmoko related parts are part of some mainstream distribution (ie.. just install these packages to develop applications for OpenMoko: for running in host machine and cross compiling for Neo1973) Feb 15 05:26:56 Hi all Feb 15 05:27:25 Can anyone tell me where I can find the features list of OpenMoko Feb 15 05:31:24 didn't wait for answer ;-) Feb 15 05:31:32 1 minute... that's gotta be a record Feb 15 05:34:52 but then... I doubt this answer would have satisfied: http://svn.openmoko.org/trunk/src/target/gsm/src/gsmd/ ;-) Feb 15 05:35:27 or maybe he found this page: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Gsmd Feb 15 05:39:42 aloril: I dunno, but I look forward to being able to install an emulator and devkit much like the palm-based ones Feb 15 05:48:25 qemu looks to be a good start Feb 15 05:51:38 some interesting images here: http://people.gta01.hmw-consulting.de/sean/specifications/images/ Feb 15 05:51:52 (looks like the openmoko design specification) Feb 15 05:53:56 and http://people.gta01.hmw-consulting.de/graeme/neo1973-states/ Feb 15 05:56:06 PCB placement files: http://people.gta01.hmw-consulting.de/sean_chiang/gta01bv3_placement.tar.bz2 Feb 15 05:56:20 rwhitby: I like the text in the application_manager.png picture ;) Feb 15 05:56:29 You can see they've really been in a hurry.. Feb 15 06:02:35 rwhitby: thanks! Feb 15 06:22:33 quit open project Feb 15 06:51:06 Can anyone tell me where I can find the features list of OpenMoko <--- he was the one in here a while back trying to get a developer to tell him how the sms worked Feb 15 06:51:34 yeah and again later some days ago for asking when source will be released Feb 15 06:52:40 hmm.. in a sense development team with hardware doubles in size near end of this month ;-) Feb 15 06:52:41 hmmm Feb 15 06:52:44 bugzilla spam Feb 15 06:53:31 actually... more than that? dunno how many internally actually have hardware ;-) Feb 15 06:53:57 4 -> 54 (or 104) Feb 15 06:54:38 see commment #2: https://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=61 Feb 15 06:54:48 hmm.. its interesting that they canceled windows version Feb 15 06:56:33 in a sense it was "Windows is main product and OpenMoko version is experiment" -> "OpenMoko is main product" Feb 15 06:56:39 well.. anyway, I get this feeling ;-) Feb 15 06:58:45 You mean the P1 batch is 50? Feb 15 06:58:53 koen? Feb 15 06:59:02 SpeedEvil: 50 or 100 Feb 15 06:59:03 P0 Feb 15 06:59:12 p0, yes Feb 15 06:59:32 Ah. Misread. Feb 15 06:59:50 * SpeedEvil contines to wait for late march. Feb 15 07:00:35 [A Feb 15 07:01:10 * SpeedEvil opens altoid, and practices heiromancy. Feb 15 07:01:11 oops Feb 15 07:01:18 does anybody got Neo1973? Feb 15 07:01:28 Very few. Feb 15 07:01:34 umm.. I heard P0 is 200 Feb 15 07:01:39 At the moment, only several core devs. Feb 15 07:01:54 counter? Feb 15 07:01:54 source: http://www.openmoko.org/ ; 2 weeks 04:24:53 (8.184 - 14.184 days) for devices for selected developers (2007-02-28); a month, 2 weeks (30.184 - 45.184 days) for devices for *ANYBODY* for $350 (targeting developers) (preorders: not yet) (2007-03-31); 7 months, 2 weeks (198.184 - 228.184 days) for mass market (2007-09-30): see topic for more info (334) Feb 15 07:01:56 Many more will have it at the end of the monthish. Feb 15 07:02:09 And then anyone in a bit over a month. Feb 15 07:02:12 i see Feb 15 07:03:28 And hopefully several million in september :) Feb 15 07:06:31 hehe Feb 15 07:07:16 * aloril suspects 1000 might be too small batch for P1 (no idea what it will actually be of course ...) Feb 15 07:07:49 There has been confirmation that worst case, the delay in a new P1 batch is 6 weeks or so. Feb 15 07:07:49 if it runs out fast, then there might be up to 6 weeks delay before more are available Feb 15 07:08:34 "if" it runs out fast ? Feb 15 07:09:01 If there is preorder a couple of weeks before, of course that knocks the delay down to 4 weeks. Feb 15 07:11:35 hehe: mirror (expected capacity requirement for 2007: something like 300GB) from http://gnumonks.org/~laforge/weblog/2007/02/14#20070214-the_first_load_peak Feb 15 07:14:35 also, http://www.kernelplanet.org/ Feb 15 07:14:59 no place to put the stylus? Feb 15 07:15:11 now that's really broken design Feb 15 07:15:29 broken design? what do u mean? Feb 15 07:15:51 a stylus that cant be stored in the device will always get lost Feb 15 07:15:57 ^ Feb 15 07:16:20 No, no place to put it. Feb 15 07:16:29 At least in V1. Feb 15 07:16:58 hole in case but no place for stylus *shakesheadindisbelief* Feb 15 07:17:16 that makes you think of finger usability fairly effectively ;^) Feb 15 07:17:21 (hello people :) Feb 15 07:17:32 hey tigert Feb 15 07:17:48 it also means your screen will be even dirtiert Feb 15 07:18:13 and scratched from cleaning the oil off Feb 15 07:18:24 Your screen never scratches. Feb 15 07:18:28 sigh Feb 15 07:18:29 Only the protecting film. Feb 15 07:18:39 Which you can easily change. Feb 15 07:18:41 all the same stories as in #maemo about screen protection ;) Feb 15 07:18:46 now does it have a protective flap? :))) Feb 15 07:18:54 lol Feb 15 07:19:00 it cannot possibly be used without one! Feb 15 07:19:05 didnt know it had a film Feb 15 07:19:05 No. I was meaning a screen protector - a film. Feb 15 07:19:06 :) Feb 15 07:19:15 It doesn't - included. Feb 15 07:19:22 tigert: nokia.com didn't allow me to buy the advertised flap for the n800 Feb 15 07:19:24 But you'd have to be insane not to put one on. Feb 15 07:19:26 * tigert still thinks the screens are designed to be poked at with a stylus Feb 15 07:19:30 eheh they want to sell you a new screen every month Feb 15 07:19:35 tigert: who ever designed teh nokia webshop doesn't want to sell stuff Feb 15 07:19:47 my 770 screen is fine and I _abuse_ the device a lot Feb 15 07:19:54 buz: And maybe a stylus subscription ;) Feb 15 07:20:01 yes Feb 15 07:20:04 koen: yeah, horror stories all around Feb 15 07:20:18 CM: a new one sent to you in mail every month? :) Feb 15 07:20:26 i dont think i can buy a device that lets me lose the stylus so easily Feb 15 07:20:39 Yes, while I keep looking for the one I've just lost ;) Feb 15 07:20:45 but hey, how does the build setup etc work for the openmoko? Feb 15 07:20:55 do you folks use scratchbox too or something totally different? Feb 15 07:21:09 There will probably be someone along soon with a nice case with a stylis slot. Feb 15 07:22:09 hmm Feb 15 07:22:45 tigert: It's build with openembedded and bitbake Feb 15 07:23:41 ok Feb 15 07:23:42 tigert: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Building_OpenMoko_from_scratch Feb 15 07:24:24 do you folks have anything to run this on a desktop machine, like maemo has the scratchbox and Xephyr thing? Feb 15 07:24:31 or is an actual device required? Feb 15 07:24:55 Much of it can be done in X. Feb 15 07:25:09 At least some of it, without even cross-compiling. Feb 15 07:26:17 (and http://planet.openmoko.org/ ) Feb 15 07:26:45 which one is prefered environment to build openmoko? debian or ubuntu? Feb 15 07:27:11 tigert: Either a native build in Xoo/Xephyr or in qemu-arm Feb 15 07:27:29 ok Feb 15 07:28:01 You change the target arch in bitbake :) Feb 15 07:29:10 good morning guys Feb 15 07:34:19 how about macosx as target arch Feb 15 07:34:21 -) Feb 15 07:35:49 it would take a long time to build opnemoko, at least 8 hours Feb 15 07:37:02 someone should make a vmware appliance of OpenMoko toolchain and stuff precompiled Feb 15 07:37:17 raynet: go ahead Feb 15 07:38:09 koen: does it build on macosx? Feb 15 07:38:19 A nice completely emulated package including local GCC might be interesting. Feb 15 07:38:19 koen: i might. havent had a chance to look at them yet. got a nasty fever Feb 15 07:38:57 raynet: I'm allergic to "someone should..." statements Feb 15 07:39:19 koen: someone should do something about that allergy Feb 15 07:39:28 raynet: go ahead Feb 15 07:39:57 anybody mind if I add link to http://www.openembedded.org/wiki/OEandYourDistro from http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Building_OpenMoko_from_scratch ? Feb 15 07:40:07 go for it Feb 15 07:40:29 it's linked from GettingStarted, which is on BUIlding_om_from_scratch Feb 15 07:49:50 koen: hmmm,. it indeed is trough OpenMoko#Setting_up_an_OpenMoko_SDK link, but still... I think it makes sense for me to add it near "Gentoo users can obtain all this with" stuff anyway Feb 15 08:14:18 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Building_OpenMoko_from_scratch is missing link at " Start the Neo and enter the boot prompt " section to preorder page ;-) Feb 15 08:14:43 :D Feb 15 08:31:48 counter Feb 15 08:31:48 P0: 2 weeks 02:54:58 (8.122 - 14.122 days); P1: 30.122 - 45.122; P2: 198.122 - 228.122 (long: "/msg aloril counter?") (335) Feb 15 08:35:26 reading IRC logs: quite fast for getting OpenMoko to 2 devices: iPAQ hx4700 and HTC Universal Feb 15 08:35:50 aloril: that's OE for you Feb 15 08:36:02 * aloril nods, sound good Feb 15 08:37:05 * Kero guesses OE would work fine on iPAQ h3630, too :) How about OpenMoko? again, I expect no significant problems. Feb 15 08:37:35 can i build and try openmoko on my desktop? Feb 15 08:37:40 yes Feb 15 08:37:57 (not read logs yet, but I guess nobody yet done any Motorola phone or Nokia tablets) Feb 15 08:38:13 hrw: any howtos or tutorials on that? Feb 15 08:38:38 ecraven: tried wiki? Feb 15 08:40:43 * dottedmag see many drivers were pulled from the h1940. Probably it will be not too hard to ressurect my old ipaq :) Feb 15 09:08:05 hi all Feb 15 09:16:38 good morning Feb 15 09:20:51 3 related to this release at digg now, but all are single digit yet: http://www.digg.com/search?s=moko&submit=Search§ion=news&type=both&area=all&age=7&sort=new Feb 15 09:27:45 morning all Feb 15 09:28:04 hey fluffs Feb 15 09:32:28 mornin' Feb 15 09:33:12 hi fluffs Feb 15 09:53:18 hi all Feb 15 09:55:40 hello Feb 15 10:03:47 * koen reads http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/openmoko-uboot/2007-February/000000.html Feb 15 10:03:47 hello is the neo1973 available yet? Feb 15 10:03:51 I'm having trouble getting my environment straight Feb 15 10:03:52 fabiand: no Feb 15 10:04:13 koen, hmm okay - i sthere some date when it will be released? Feb 15 10:04:13 ipkgapi.c wont compile Feb 15 10:04:32 fabiand hopefully int end of ferbruary Feb 15 10:04:44 fabiand: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/announce/2007-February/000003.html Feb 15 10:06:11 woglinde: end of march Feb 15 10:06:40 I did install libipkg from source, and added the include path, but it chokes on ‘ipkg_cb_message’ undeclared Feb 15 10:06:56 accumulator: did you use OE? Feb 15 10:07:12 buz :) Feb 15 10:07:19 no I followed the 'How to run OpenMoko Apps on PC' Feb 15 10:07:28 accumulator: there's the problem Feb 15 10:07:36 ok Feb 15 10:07:42 accumulator: I suspect that fails to mention that you need to patch ipkg Feb 15 10:07:48 koen: indeed Feb 15 10:08:11 it's just a simple 'run qmake' howto Feb 15 10:08:11 accumulator: http://www.openembedded.org/repo/org.openembedded.dev/packages/ipkg/files/is-processing.patch Feb 15 10:08:16 koen, thanks Feb 15 10:08:19 accumulator: if that works, could you update the wiki? Feb 15 10:08:21 i wonder how long it will take for the flash to go bad with all that upgrading Feb 15 10:08:37 koen: thanks, will check it out Feb 15 10:09:11 buz: after all 2G networks were shutdown and aliens took over our planet Feb 15 10:09:15 buz which flash? Feb 15 10:10:12 the 64mb nand in neo Feb 15 10:10:55 hm 2 years? Feb 15 10:11:14 100k write/cell, right? Feb 15 10:11:25 should Feb 15 10:11:27 hopefully jffs2 balances well Feb 15 10:11:32 koen nobody really knows Feb 15 10:11:45 * koen wants logfs on the neo Feb 15 10:11:47 buz: the only broken flash I have ever witnessed was in woglinde's simpad Feb 15 10:11:57 ppfffff Feb 15 10:12:28 best would be to simply use hardware write balanced flash thingies Feb 15 10:12:35 hm my first task in the holidays will be getting phoneME run on the simpad Feb 15 10:13:01 koen: not solved. same error, chokes on the extern definition; Feb 15 10:13:06 src/ipkgapi.c:72: error: expected ‘=’, ‘,’, ‘;’, ‘asm’ or ‘__attribute__’ before ‘ipkg_cb_message’ Feb 15 10:13:22 accumulator: did you patch .163 or something else? Feb 15 10:13:29 .163 for tarball Feb 15 10:13:33 hmmm Feb 15 10:13:34 s/for/from/ Feb 15 10:13:34 accumulator meant: .163 from tarball Feb 15 10:13:36 that should work Feb 15 10:13:41 woglinde: leave your work now, and come here... or should I utilize my sith power? Feb 15 10:13:54 zecke okay Feb 15 10:13:55 I thought so ;) Feb 15 10:13:58 will write one email Feb 15 10:14:53 accumulator: did you try a make clean? Feb 15 10:15:00 yep just did Feb 15 10:15:48 I prefixed PATH with /usr/share/qt4/bin, is that enough to force qt4 qmake to be used? Feb 15 10:16:47 * koen has no idea about qmake Feb 15 10:17:01 * koen looks at qmake guru mickey_away Feb 15 10:17:14 accumulator: which qmake says what? Feb 15 10:17:16 * woglinde wonders why a executable is in /usr/share Feb 15 10:17:29 woglinde: TT, enough said Feb 15 10:17:37 woglinde: debian, the ancient word for I can't configure Qt Feb 15 10:17:42 hm Feb 15 10:17:47 zecke|uni: trying to compile OM-2007 tree, but fails Feb 15 10:17:59 tought the but than under /usr/lib Feb 15 10:18:05 will look at home Feb 15 10:18:15 accumulator: didn't the readme say that the qmake system needs work? Feb 15 10:18:39 accumulator: http://svn.openmoko.org/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/README it did Feb 15 10:20:30 accumulator: https://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=187 Feb 15 10:20:32 zecke|uni: the gcc lines it executes seem ok Feb 15 10:24:15 hi there. Feb 15 10:24:28 there is really a lot of people here :) Feb 15 10:28:53 hi bedboi Feb 15 10:31:32 hey bedboi :) Feb 15 10:32:00 i really need a neo1973 Feb 15 10:33:31 [politics] ... nice quote.. http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=222474&cid=18020752 Feb 15 10:41:56 bedboi: get in line for P1 march release ;-) Feb 15 10:42:17 ok Feb 15 10:49:59 aloril, you really think it will still be march? Feb 15 10:50:29 Psi_: that is still 1 month after P0 ;-) Feb 15 10:50:52 * koen checks http://planet.openmoko.org/ for any news Feb 15 10:50:54 yeah, but with the delays with P0, i would expect P1 to be pushed back Feb 15 10:51:01 Psi_: but yeah, it could be later too, we will see (before there is any world otherwise, counter can stay that way) Feb 15 10:51:26 have they shipped the P0 phones yet? Feb 15 10:51:36 Psi_: no Feb 15 10:51:39 Psi_: well.. P0: 2007-02-11 -> 2007-02-2?, so .. P1: 2007-03-11 -> 2007-03-2? too Feb 15 10:51:47 or rather, I have no tracking number yet Feb 15 10:51:48 well, it will probably be a month after they ship them then Feb 15 10:52:01 thats my educated guess Feb 15 10:52:40 however, source has been released, that might help so its 3 weeks instead of 1 month after P0 Feb 15 10:53:37 they should probably take this message off http://openmoko.org/ Feb 15 10:54:17 lol, that was quick Feb 15 10:54:43 * Psi_ wonders who did that Feb 15 10:54:54 Psi_: probably your browser cache Feb 15 10:55:07 possible Feb 15 10:59:34 koen: I'd figure you'd get at least an email about dispatch Feb 15 11:01:27 so I would also assume that they're on winging their way around the world Feb 15 11:01:32 * noidd is hoping for 2 day delivery Feb 15 11:01:38 :-) Feb 15 11:05:00 have they said that they have posted them? Feb 15 11:13:26 hmmm Feb 15 11:13:29 europe wakes up Feb 15 11:13:50 yoyo koen Feb 15 11:14:06 hey robtaylor Feb 15 11:14:29 looks like we did some good work for the pixmaps stuff :) Feb 15 11:14:47 lets hope plana can get it running a hella lot faster :) Feb 15 11:15:38 yes Feb 15 11:15:48 * koen stabs uboot again Feb 15 11:15:56 * koen stabs gcc/glibc Feb 15 11:16:09 * koen punches neo kernel Feb 15 11:16:12 ?--) Feb 15 11:16:38 I'm at a point where I can't distinguish between toolchain problems and downstream problems Feb 15 11:16:57 get superman vision Feb 15 11:17:30 so has anyone got a qemu or vmware image? Feb 15 11:17:48 so the time constrained can take a look? Feb 15 11:17:56 buz: check the download site Feb 15 11:19:59 uhm and where do those live? Feb 15 11:20:18 https://buildhost.openmoko.org/releases/ Feb 15 11:22:49 koen: the reason for not compiling might be that 'make install' for ipkg doesn't install libipkg.pc in a pkg-config dir Feb 15 11:25:26 what's the gt2410 ?-) Feb 15 11:25:30 "My phone can hack your phone" - nice quote :) Feb 15 11:25:39 xkr47: chinese clone of smdk2410 Feb 15 11:25:52 xkr47: developer board in other words. rest in wiki Feb 15 11:25:57 that's the qt2410 Feb 15 11:26:15 * koen uploads to uboot patches to bugzilla Feb 15 11:26:35 hrw ok thx Feb 15 11:31:06 * koen files some more bugs Feb 15 11:33:16 is it me or is the svn stuff in http://wiki.openmoko.org/index.php?title=Talk:Building_OpenMoko_from_scratch_%28pre-BBT%29 complete crack Feb 15 11:33:18 ? Feb 15 11:33:19 buz: did you find any qemu of vmware images there? Feb 15 11:33:27 not really Feb 15 11:33:41 qemu can boot .ext2 images as well Feb 15 11:33:49 i didnt find those either Feb 15 11:33:51 maybe i'm stupid Feb 15 11:34:11 there should be an images directory for those if you ask me Feb 15 11:34:19 buz: https://buildhost.openmoko.org/releases/gta01-20070201/tmp/deploy/images/ Feb 15 11:34:30 yeah thats not really obvious Feb 15 11:34:31 robtaylor: I think you can ignore the pre BBT stuff Feb 15 11:34:33 to go look in tmp hehehe Feb 15 11:34:55 buz: it presupposes some OE knowledge Feb 15 11:35:16 (which is why I checked whether you found them OK or not) Feb 15 11:35:17 ok that machine pushes 600K/s my way Feb 15 11:35:31 obviously bandwidth it has enough Feb 15 11:35:55 40MB/s peaks suggest Gbit uplink Feb 15 11:36:22 koen: is there any other places where they suggest makeing a flase svn script with --username passed in? Feb 15 11:36:32 that really noobie Feb 15 11:36:36 robtaylor: I hope not Feb 15 11:36:41 godthe wiki is slow Feb 15 11:36:43 robtaylor: .svnrc? Feb 15 11:36:51 indeed Feb 15 11:37:01 or just checkout with --username --password.. Feb 15 11:37:27 oh the machines live at hetzner Feb 15 11:37:31 that explains it ;) Feb 15 11:37:36 mentally doing s/cvs/svn/ hasn't failed me sofar Feb 15 11:40:52 no, it's probably slow because it got mentioned on an major german news site Feb 15 11:41:08 it's slow because mediawiki is slow Feb 15 11:42:12 and apache Feb 15 11:42:27 morricone: and linux Feb 15 11:44:24 hmmm Feb 15 11:44:40 something like http://www.lighttpd.net/ would be better Feb 15 11:44:41 hi lardman Feb 15 11:44:51 no, cherokee would be better Feb 15 11:44:52 morricone: thttpd is even better Feb 15 11:45:05 * koen adds another bug Feb 15 11:45:07 * hrw has enough of lighttpd work Feb 15 11:46:03 lighttpd and php-fcgi usually beat mod_php in my tests Feb 15 11:46:08 * CM is reminded of yesterdays meeting with the boss: http://www.dilbert.com/comics/dilbert/archive/images/dilbert2007916360215.gif Feb 15 11:53:17 http://dominion.kabel.utwente.nl/koen/cms/spending-some-time-with-bugzilla :) Feb 15 11:58:15 -Werror :) Feb 15 11:59:39 xkr47: whats funny? Feb 15 12:01:22 it's a happy face, not a laughing face Feb 15 12:01:45 :D Feb 15 12:02:08 s/face/smiley/ Feb 15 12:02:09 xkr47 meant: it's a happy smiley, not a laughing face Feb 15 12:03:09 * rwhitby hopes that the openmoko community developers will treat the source code with leniency, keep dirty laundry out of the slashdot gaze, and not make Sean regret his decision to release source early and often ... Feb 15 12:04:51 e.g. "openmoko? oh, isn't that the phone software that slashdot said had more bugs in it than windows?" <- something we wouldn't want to see happen. Let's report the bugs, get them fixed, and not make a big deal about it. Feb 15 12:05:39 rwhitby: Well said. Something for the mailinglist maybe? :) Feb 15 12:06:16 night all Feb 15 12:07:05 do I need a specific version of alsa? the compiler bails out with /usr/include/alsa/timer.h:108: error: field ‘tstamp’ has incomplete type Feb 15 12:08:10 accumulator: you NEED to use OpenMoko recipes Feb 15 12:08:29 so i need OE regardless if I want to crosscompile? Feb 15 12:08:48 accumulator: want to get something working or not? Feb 15 12:08:57 heh Feb 15 12:09:21 accumulator: OE contain patches, tweaks to get it done Feb 15 12:09:30 handmade buildsystems are past Feb 15 12:09:46 btw: "movie" is en_US not en_GB? Feb 15 12:09:46 still learning ;) Feb 15 12:11:49 imo, "film" is en_GB Feb 15 12:14:20 or theatre even (found on imdb) Feb 15 12:15:25 mhh theatre the word for cinema i believe Feb 15 12:15:38 not for film itself? Feb 15 12:21:34 buz: we use Cinema+film in London... too many Theatres (live performances) around :) Feb 15 12:21:51 yeah thats how i would use the words myself Feb 15 12:38:04 ? Feb 15 12:41:45 hi @ll Feb 15 12:41:55 Hi Feb 15 12:47:57 counter Feb 15 12:47:57 P0: a week, 6 days 22:38:48 (7.944 - 13.944 days); P1: 29.944 - 44.944; P2: 197.944 - 227.944 (long: "/msg aloril counter?") (336) Feb 15 12:48:34 "/msg aloril counter? Feb 15 12:53:03 hi Feb 15 12:54:41 just saw that the openmoko.org site was up. Did not find any info about when the neo will be available for developers and what the price will be. Feb 15 12:56:11 about 1 month (probably a bit more), price was given as 350$ a few weeks ago Feb 15 12:56:44 sweet. Feb 15 12:56:56 available worldwide or? Feb 15 12:57:08 i think so Feb 15 12:57:58 nice. Feb 15 13:04:47 Which mailinglist is for kernel related stuff on the neo? Feb 15 13:04:59 openmoko-kernel Feb 15 13:10:04 http://www.hrw.one.pl/2007/02/15/valentineswopenmoko-day/ Feb 15 13:15:16 Hmmm. When I get home, I'll help the wiki a bit. :) Feb 15 13:15:27 sweet. the neo uses the BC4 for bluetooth Feb 15 13:16:57 kimy: thanks to marcel holtmann's suggestion Feb 15 13:17:20 ~hail MH Feb 15 13:17:30 * apt_ bows down to MH and chants, "I'M NOT WORTHY!!" Feb 15 13:17:52 LaF0rge: best on the market (until the bc5 is out :-) ) Feb 15 13:18:05 And so does the new Nokia N800. Feb 15 13:18:49 The BlueCore5 is not really different to the BlueCore4. Except you wanna have FM radio. Feb 15 13:18:53 holtmann: did you tested a2dp? Feb 15 13:19:27 I stepped out of A2DP stuff some time ago. Brad and some guys from PalmSource are working on it. Feb 15 13:19:31 does anyone know where rtpnet.nerim.net/ipaq/patches moved to? Feb 15 13:20:08 tried www.rtp-net.org ? Feb 15 13:20:18 LaF0rge: http://www.rtp-net.org/ipaq/patches/ Feb 15 13:20:22 holtmann: well and a bit of other things. but yes it can seem the same. Feb 15 13:21:50 LaF0rge: FYI, there's also git tree available :) Feb 15 13:22:03 All Bluetooth stuff will fall magically into place in the next few month. Only the UI will be different on the embedded devices. Feb 15 13:22:04 shit.. forgot that logitech bt2.0 dongle + hid2hci == fscked mouse Feb 15 13:22:53 LaF0rge: i've had a quick look over the patches, but been busy sorting out SMDK2443... is it ok to do some cherry-picking of stuff later on today? Feb 15 13:23:38 * rtp plans to look at the openmoko patches too Feb 15 13:24:18 holtmann: you're the one in charge of the bt things in openmoko? Feb 15 13:24:53 rt: are you now maintaining s3c2410_udc ? Feb 15 13:24:59 kimuSan^: he is BT Linux maintainer, not only in openmoko Feb 15 13:25:36 LaF0rge: i've been cleaning it up lately Feb 15 13:25:51 hrw: I know who he is :-) just wanted to know if he was here as a maintainer or just interest :-) Feb 15 13:26:05 ;D Feb 15 13:26:12 fluffs: sure, just go ahead. but please tell me before you submit mainline, some things might not be in their ideal shape yet ;;) Feb 15 13:26:16 rtp: are you now maintaining s3c2410_udc ? Feb 15 13:26:32 LaF0rge: too late for this kernel release for new drivers Feb 15 13:26:43 LaF0rge: yes Feb 15 13:27:06 kimuSan^: I am not in charge. I only try to make it work. Feb 15 13:27:53 rtp: ok Feb 15 13:28:04 fluffs: I'm not talking about 2.6.21 anyway Feb 15 13:28:06 * fluffs is now the proud owner of an dead n35 and a dead palm z22 Feb 15 13:28:24 fluffs: would you mind subscribing to openmoko-kernel? Feb 15 13:28:32 ok Feb 15 13:28:49 * rtp is already on openmoko-kernel :) Feb 15 13:29:26 * fluffs hadn't noticed Feb 15 13:30:27 holtmann: ok. Feb 15 13:32:53 ok, i've replied to subscribe Feb 15 15:16:35 http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/smartphones/first-look-the-antiiphone-openmokos-neo1973-236841.php Feb 15 15:19:30 nice Feb 15 15:19:38 "The idea is to collaborate with developers who will create all the basic apps. OpenMoko/FIC will then certify a bundle of those apps and mass market them with the phone along with support. Feb 15 15:19:41 The developers will be rewarded with some kind of revenue sharing deal for the software sold by OpenMoko. Power users will always have the ability to get freeware apps from the community as well." Feb 15 15:19:55 so some of business plan is revealed Feb 15 15:20:15 * unknown_lamer is porting scwm Feb 15 15:20:50 Hehe.. "Product manager Sean Moss-Pultz promised to send video today, but our BS meter immediately hit the red." Feb 15 15:21:55 yep Feb 15 15:22:07 its not a new model Feb 15 15:22:08 "they can always download source, compile it and run it" ;-) Feb 15 15:22:18 people pay for the "certified" versions of free software Feb 15 15:22:38 ie, they pay someone to verify and warrant that they won't have compatibility issuies with otehr apps. Feb 15 15:22:47 gizmodo is however apple fanboys so everything not apple often get alot of bad comments Feb 15 15:23:11 s/they/article writer/ Feb 15 15:23:11 aloril meant: "article writer can always download source, compile it and run it" ;-) Feb 15 15:23:17 aloril: sure Feb 15 15:25:02 I think the endnote was quite positive: "But given the sorry state of handsets and phone platforms today, we'd be crazy not to champion open software efforts like this one." Feb 15 15:27:03 Congrats on the release! Feb 15 15:27:11 hi dneary Feb 15 15:27:26 hi rburton fancy meeting you here Feb 15 15:27:30 :) Feb 15 15:28:26 right, smdk2443 out of the way Feb 15 15:28:30 koen: there? Feb 15 15:28:59 less interesting, but new article too: http://www.onecompare.com/mobile-news/article-asp~aid~244~pub~56321102~story~openmoko-launch-the-official-portal-for-development-of-the-openmoko-platform Feb 15 15:30:02 aloril: adding the links to the wiki or should I? Feb 15 15:30:18 anyone started porting openmoko to some other phones yet ? Feb 15 15:30:35 xkr47: Koen, look at his blog Feb 15 15:30:37 CM: wiki is for adding the stuff your own. No need to ask Feb 15 15:31:00 CM: If you add bad things, they will be reverted. :) Feb 15 15:31:10 nice Feb 15 15:31:11 stefan_schmidt: Sure, I'm trying right now :) Feb 15 15:31:18 xkr47: We start ezx stuff next week Feb 15 15:31:28 stefan_schmidt, great Feb 15 15:31:36 xkr47: First prblem is 320x240 Feb 15 15:31:54 openmoko site should have a paypal button :) Feb 15 15:31:54 xkr47: It already shows up a gui on a htc universal. Feb 15 15:32:06 how about a preorder button. ;) Feb 15 15:32:08 xkr47: same res. Ask goxboxlive for details Feb 15 15:32:08 stefan_schmidt, :)) Feb 15 15:32:19 aloril: author of the article was drunk. 'OpenMoki', 'Plant OpenMoko', Feb 15 15:32:27 * SpeedEvil finds an almost irresistable urge to update [[finger]]. 'One of typically ten digits found on the upper limbs of a human. These are divided into 8 fingers, and two [[thumbs]], evenly divided between the upper limbs. Feb 15 15:32:28 dottedmag: hehe Feb 15 15:32:36 (currently blank) Feb 15 15:32:53 xkr47: Openmoko INc. Should have enough money. Donate money to devs which work you like Feb 15 15:33:13 yeah.. so there should be a plethora of paypal buttons then ;) Feb 15 15:33:23 paypals.openmoko.org ;) Feb 15 15:33:27 xkr47: Let me rephrase. Openmoko inc. have a business model. Feb 15 15:33:37 :) Feb 15 15:33:57 xkr47: Some of the devs already have paypal buttons on their private websites Feb 15 15:34:54 So perhaps paypal links next to each developer name on summary devs page? Feb 15 15:35:02 mickey_away, congrats on opening up the stuff! Feb 15 15:35:26 but I don't use paypal.. Feb 15 15:35:38 you do now Feb 15 15:35:58 newmedian: hmm, contact the dev if you like to sponsor/donate him is better. Feb 15 15:36:26 Some even don't like donations at all. Direct contact is best here. Feb 15 15:36:27 Some may have enough money from their illustrious careers, and never need to work again. Feb 15 15:36:51 SpeedEvil, :) Feb 15 15:36:58 * newmedian thinks he needs an illustrious career Feb 15 15:37:21 * SpeedEvil passes newmedian a book entitled 'Illustriation for dummies'. Feb 15 15:37:42 * xkr47 would need a book on "Dummies for dummies" Feb 15 15:38:24 * BlackFog goes buying that book, too Feb 15 15:38:28 much people i know works for free in open source in order to get a better work :) Feb 15 15:38:37 Indeed. Feb 15 15:38:47 You don't need a resume to work on open source. Feb 15 15:38:49 i.e. a friend of mine has been hired by vmware Feb 15 15:39:12 I got a job because of my open source work Feb 15 15:39:18 its good resume fodder Feb 15 15:39:32 * dottedmag works in OSS project ;) Feb 15 15:39:33 yep Feb 15 15:39:36 Forget "internship". Open Source is the new technical apprendiceship. Feb 15 15:39:41 bedboi: If you do good work and companies see this, that's cool. Feb 15 15:39:42 yep Feb 15 15:39:56 so, who was first to release the news first? slashdot or digg? Feb 15 15:40:05 I don't think it has been. Feb 15 15:40:08 s/first// Feb 15 15:40:10 aevin meant: so, who was to release the news first? slashdot or digg? Feb 15 15:40:12 It's on digg - but not high. Feb 15 15:40:23 It's not actually been slashdotted yet. Feb 15 15:40:27 apt_: thanks ;-) nice feature. Feb 15 15:40:32 Which is probably good. Feb 15 15:40:38 I got my internship through open source in a roundabout way Feb 15 15:41:01 Just showed up with my linux laptop and gave out source to some software tools I'd written for personal use Feb 15 15:41:06 As we really want it to be on a capable platform before it does. So all the nice slashdot kiddies with $350 can wade in in 'late march'. Feb 15 15:41:33 aevin: neither yet (though there are single digit entries: http://www.digg.com/search?s=moko&submit=Search§ion=news&type=both&area=all&age=7&sort=new ) Feb 15 15:41:51 I need to make a bootable linux rescue disk for my business card :-P Feb 15 15:42:07 noidd: That would be awesome Feb 15 15:42:17 i may have to steal that idea Feb 15 15:42:23 One of the buisness card DVDs? Feb 15 15:42:25 aloril: yeah, i checked it around 11 hrs ago, then there was only one with 6 diggs. Feb 15 15:42:31 SpeedEvil: doubt we can keep it secret that long ;-) Feb 15 15:42:34 I would prefer to wade in with a pre-order before the late march zerg rush Feb 15 15:42:39 Me too. Feb 15 15:43:03 * SpeedEvil contemplates adding [[preorders granted]] page :) Feb 15 15:43:28 Hm... I'm trying to build OpenMoKo according to the instructions in http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Building_OpenMoko_from_scratch_%28pre-BBT%29 and it doesn't work (I get "DISTRO 'openmoko' not found." and similar errors when trying to build it). Am I reading the wrong documentation, are the instructions broken, or is the problem somewhere between the keyboard and my chair? Feb 15 15:43:36 well.. we will probably know about preorder before /. & digg too, just like with source code Feb 15 15:43:48 If the preorders start early enough, then they can get well underway with the batch of second phones. Feb 15 15:44:07 SpeedEvil: hehe, what if there was preorders page in wiki, funny .. Feb 15 15:44:08 where is the proper place to report the glitches on website? Feb 15 15:44:19 If they open up in a week, then the second batch could be along as fast as 3 weeks after the first. Feb 15 15:44:38 I just posted screenshot to the talkpage of wiki, but not sure anyone will ever have a look Feb 15 15:44:59 * aloril followed these: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Building_OpenMoko_from_scratch (still building after several hours ;-) Feb 15 15:45:27 aloril: several hours is about half way through on a good machine Feb 15 15:45:36 just note that for fedora you need to get monotone-0.32.tar.gz Feb 15 15:46:51 Hmm. I don't see a reason why 'people interested in a preorder' page is unreasonable on the wiki. Feb 15 15:46:58 In addition to the traditional development tools (gcc, patch, etc.), the following packages must be installed on the build host: subversion, quilt, monotone, git Feb 15 15:47:02 ROTFLMAO Feb 15 15:47:49 aloril: those are about the same instructions. Damn, then I'm doing something wrong :( Feb 15 15:48:23 I need to order new hardware first, then do that. Jammed disk, and my GTK is 1.2.0 for example. Feb 15 15:49:06 SpeedEvil: yeah, s/preorder/interested on preorder/ might be reasonable page Feb 15 15:49:33 Is there supposed to do anything but a conf directory containing a 3 line local.conf-file in the build directory? Feb 15 15:49:38 how match disk space take to have openmoko build? Feb 15 15:49:59 aprox. 7GB Feb 15 15:50:05 ozamosi: yes, see OpenEmbedded build: fixes section Feb 15 15:50:47 it seems i dont have enougth disk space... Feb 15 15:50:52 (not leading ../ ) Feb 15 15:50:55 s/not/note/ Feb 15 15:50:56 aloril meant: (note leading ../ ) Feb 15 15:51:00 last time it got stuck on compiling gettext-native, it ran 2h then i stopped it Feb 15 15:51:20 there are images here: http://buildhost.openmoko.org/releases/gta01-20070201/tmp/deploy/images/ Feb 15 15:51:28 i am fetching linux-gat01 with git... Feb 15 15:51:50 mickey_away: when you get back i have cunning plans for fixing dates Feb 15 15:51:50 aloril: ah, yes, but those are "almost empty", so I don't count those :) Feb 15 15:53:10 AFAICT, bitbake cant find $OMDIR/openmoko :( Feb 15 15:53:23 ozamosi: I failed to get that to build too Feb 15 15:53:58 i think that not everyone will want to get sources for openmoko and compile it by himself Feb 15 15:54:04 CM: cool! That means I'm not completely retarded! :D Feb 15 15:54:25 ozamosi: was it just looping over the po files? Feb 15 15:54:27 probably paid soft download will be havily used Feb 15 15:54:58 if there is reasonable price Feb 15 15:55:44 ozamosi: on #oe this morning: 09:15 rwhitby: I'm discussing moving DISTRO=openmoko over to DISTRO=angstrom for the long term with the FIC people Feb 15 15:55:48 ozamosi: did you get new bitbake? (just have a vague memory that above error might have been caused by it) Feb 15 15:56:13 dunno what obvious thing I'm missing... probably not read enough carefully docs: Feb 15 15:56:18 qemu-system-arm -kernel zImage-2.6.17.14-fic-gta01-20070130164946.bin -initrd openmoko-devel-image-fic-gta01-20070201010742.rootfs.ext2 Feb 15 15:56:23 neither s/initrd/hda/ works Feb 15 15:56:38 it just sits with QEMU monitor screen Feb 15 15:57:11 aloril: apparently, I don't. I'll try that Feb 15 16:06:42 blog (3 diggs), nothing new here: http://www.joetech.com/2007/02/15/openmoko-open-source-cell-phone/ Feb 15 16:07:53 "The picture of the phone above is just what the model for developers looks like. Moss-Pultz told CrunchGear he’s toying with the idea of putting in a slide-out QWERTY keyboard since he intends for the handset and the OS to be a mobile-computing platform and for the fastest possible text entry a keyboard is the logical option." : Feb 15 16:07:54 http://crunchgear.com/2007/02/15/openmokos-open-source-mobile-os/ Feb 15 16:08:29 so black/silver for developers? Feb 15 16:10:26 as long it's not pink Feb 15 16:10:53 even then ;-) (would probably recolor it then though) Feb 15 16:12:33 hi, rick rodgers at the U.S. National Library of Medicine here Feb 15 16:12:45 anyone patying attention to the room? ;) Feb 15 16:12:51 The back of the phone is interesting. Feb 15 16:13:12 If you make a new back, stretched out 5mm or so, then that adds possibilties. Feb 15 16:13:13 ah sorry to interrupt, i see there is a discussion doing on Feb 15 16:13:28 u have a battery in mind? or what? Feb 15 16:13:44 you mean as an bottle opener? Feb 15 16:13:48 For example, a flex cable from the microSD to a full size SD/SDIO socket, with a slot on the right of the phone. Feb 15 16:14:09 ~~~ waves to rodgers, just jump in if you have a question Feb 15 16:14:18 Or easily switchable multi-sims. Feb 15 16:14:47 thanks Feb 15 16:15:05 is anyone else interested in the unit having a camera? Feb 15 16:15:06 There is no camera included. With (battery) powered USB hub, you should be able to attach to (almost) any external camera. See http://www.linuxtogo.org/gowiki/OpenMoko/Hardware for details on what is included. Feb 15 16:15:11 rodgers. No. Feb 15 16:15:17 Nobody has ever brought that up. Feb 15 16:15:25 lol Feb 15 16:15:40 NOTE: Fetch svn://svn.openmoko.org/trunk/src/target/kernel;module=patches;proto=http Feb 15 16:15:42 i dont like the keyboard idea Feb 15 16:15:43 cool, it autoanswer worked Feb 15 16:15:43 svn: Unable to find repository location for 'http://svn.openmoko.org/trunk/src/target/kernel/patches' in revision 11 Feb 15 16:15:46 to whom will the phone be available in march? Feb 15 16:15:46 any idea? Feb 15 16:15:51 late march. Feb 15 16:15:57 anyone Feb 15 16:15:58 i better like to boost gtk and its apps to be real touch finger based Feb 15 16:16:01 with the money. Feb 15 16:16:06 how much? Feb 15 16:16:11 $3500 Feb 15 16:16:12 err Feb 15 16:16:12 it is better not to have kayboard on-board and get stand alone one over BT Feb 15 16:16:13 we have been working with linux on iPAQs for several years Feb 15 16:16:15 edistar, anyone, but you get to not complain about the bugs and fix them instead Feb 15 16:16:16 s/00/0/ Feb 15 16:16:18 counter? Feb 15 16:16:18 source: http://www.openmoko.org/ ; a week, 6 days 19:10:26 (7.799 - 13.799 days) for devices for selected developers (2007-02-28); a month, a week, 6 days (29.799 - 44.799 days) for devices for *ANYBODY* for $350 (targeting developers) (preorders: not yet) (2007-03-31); 7 months, a week, 6 days (197.799 - 227.799 days) for mass market (2007-09-30): see topic for more info (337) Feb 15 16:16:28 I would like to fix bugs myself;) Feb 15 16:16:32 with a view toward using them for mobile videoconferencing Feb 15 16:16:33 thats why I want it Feb 15 16:16:36 openmoko planned theming and ui concept really look promisiing Feb 15 16:16:46 edistar, good, then buy one on (late) March :9 Feb 15 16:16:53 :) Feb 15 16:16:55 :) Feb 15 16:16:56 *slap in forehead* It's stupid to try to be clever, when all scripts assume I'm not. Feb 15 16:16:59 350? Feb 15 16:17:13 is there any difficulty that I live in the Netherlands? Feb 15 16:17:13 rodgers: you will need 3G for mobile videoconferencing Feb 15 16:17:21 edistar, no, they will ship worldwide Feb 15 16:17:22 or 802.111 Feb 15 16:17:23 edistar: no. Feb 15 16:17:32 btw i wonder how Trolltech likes this all .. they want how much ??? Feb 15 16:17:33 edistar, apparently there's also an EU sales rep ready Feb 15 16:17:39 we have been using 802.11 thus far on the iPAQs Feb 15 16:17:45 some latency issues, but promising... Feb 15 16:18:12 edistar: they should ship from EU too Feb 15 16:18:28 wifi? Feb 15 16:18:29 brilliant, thanks :) Feb 15 16:18:29 When version 1 was designed there was no sufficiently low-power WiFi chip available which has an open driver. You can attach (battery) powered USB hub to Neo1973 and then use supported WiFi USB stick. For more information see http://www.linuxtogo.org/gowiki/OpenMoko/InternetAccess Feb 15 16:18:32 looking forward Feb 15 16:18:45 any useable programs like dialer ready yet? Feb 15 16:19:15 It will work as a basic phone come late march. Feb 15 16:19:24 More depends on what people do by then. Feb 15 16:19:33 yes Feb 15 16:19:47 so I can use it to telephone.. and sms too? Feb 15 16:19:58 edistar, that's been promised, yes Feb 15 16:20:26 btw, will there finally be a gcc compiler for openmoko? It is really annoying to have to use scratchbox to program for the maemo Feb 15 16:20:28 can I use it as a toaster? Feb 15 16:20:43 i apprecite the meaty technical epxlanations, aloril Feb 15 16:21:04 edistar: is uses OE, so you have to get OE compiler Feb 15 16:21:06 however, by adding on the cam and 802.11, we end up with a brick, not a portable hand-held Feb 15 16:21:13 open embedded? Feb 15 16:21:16 yes Feb 15 16:21:17 we already have that in the iPAQ prorotype we put together 4 years back Feb 15 16:21:26 the compiler will compile itself when needed :-) Feb 15 16:21:32 brilliant :) Feb 15 16:21:41 we will put up a streaming video of that doing videoconferencine, some time soon Feb 15 16:21:50 cause somehow with the maemo 770 its not possible!? Feb 15 16:22:09 does maemo use open embedded? Feb 15 16:22:22 we are primarily interested in medical applications of such a device Feb 15 16:22:34 having a cleanable unit without a keyboard is good for that Feb 15 16:22:38 hmm, the moko rekindles my interest in a steganographic filesystem Feb 15 16:22:43 having a hi-res display is also good Feb 15 16:22:53 the design of the neo1973 seems to waste quite some space Feb 15 16:23:00 since on a memory device the extra seeking isn't an issue... Feb 15 16:23:11 but having a video cam -=prefaablyin a rotatable turret at the top, slong with 802.11, also seem requirment for what we are trying to so... Feb 15 16:23:26 apple probaply patented the rectengular phone design Feb 15 16:23:31 Magon: maemo is scratchbox Feb 15 16:23:32 lol Feb 15 16:23:43 and use of stainless steel case, no doubt ;) Feb 15 16:24:14 yes .. and turning electronic "things" 90 degrees too Feb 15 16:24:38 maemo!=OE Feb 15 16:24:51 LOL no doubt, dom Feb 15 16:24:58 interesting, but I don't know why I can't have a gcc on it :( Feb 15 16:25:04 from mailing list, nothing new here either: http://www.makezine.com/blog/archive/2007/02/openmoko_open_s.html Feb 15 16:25:08 dom, indeed, no doubt we'll be sued if we ever turn the moko in landscape orientation for a movie Feb 15 16:25:08 all the beter reason for a Taiwanese firm to do just that lol Feb 15 16:25:10 can someone help me with build problem..it seems svn doesnt want to give me something Feb 15 16:25:21 mickeyl: ChanServ changed topic back Feb 15 16:26:04 mjr: we dont have to turn it to landscape..just turn the movie Feb 15 16:26:31 :P Feb 15 16:26:43 can we get the orientation from the gps chip? Feb 15 16:27:07 dom: what orientation? Feb 15 16:27:10 dom: no Feb 15 16:27:16 edistar: I think you could regard OpenMoko as 'normal' Linux distribution, just one geared for mobile phone Feb 15 16:27:44 orientation: which side is looking up to the sattelite .... Feb 15 16:28:07 dom: probably not Feb 15 16:28:13 an xterm is available, right? so actually you could do quite a lot with it :) Feb 15 16:28:28 GSM woudl not support aht, no Feb 15 16:28:31 maemo is quite a normal linux too, a kind of debian.. Feb 15 16:28:35 ooops i mean GPS of course Feb 15 16:29:21 wel off to lunch, thanks for letting me kibitz, look forward to chatign with you many more times in the coming weeks! :) Feb 15 16:29:28 edistar, well, it _has_ an X server :] Dunno if a terminal is in default install, but would make sense in the developer phase at least, if it fits Feb 15 16:29:41 yes Feb 15 16:29:52 why shouldn't it fit? ;) Feb 15 16:30:07 should be easy to port.. doesn't need much, does it? Feb 15 16:30:44 /dev/input is standard.. Feb 15 16:31:02 Is this thing ever imagined that the core software will fit in the base 64M flash? Feb 15 16:31:16 why not? Feb 15 16:31:44 edistar: s/port/compile/ ;-) Feb 15 16:31:52 ;) Feb 15 16:31:54 aloril, I was waiting for that, thanks ;) Feb 15 16:31:56 SpeedEvil: consider it will all use the same library Feb 15 16:32:00 SpeedEvil: most of PDAs have 64M or less main flash space Feb 15 16:32:08 sry Feb 15 16:32:12 SpeedEvil: and you can insert additional SD card... Feb 15 16:32:30 there's no need to have everything on main flash Feb 15 16:32:31 anyway, the important thing is that installing an xterm shouldn't be a problem Feb 15 16:32:37 :) Feb 15 16:32:42 You can insert an additional SD card. Feb 15 16:32:49 and ncurses interface Feb 15 16:33:01 But if the core software does not fit on the 64M flash, then you can't change that SD card. Feb 15 16:33:09 true Feb 15 16:33:13 [x] Redial [Call] [Abort] Feb 15 16:33:18 but 64mb is a lot.. Feb 15 16:33:30 it is Feb 15 16:33:48 It is a lot, of nice, tightly written software, with only the needed libraries. Feb 15 16:34:06 '64mb ought to be enough for anybody' ..oops. sorry, wrong o/s Feb 15 16:34:11 :) Feb 15 16:34:50 how much does the current image really need Feb 15 16:35:07 do I recall correctly that the internal flash was even compressed? Feb 15 16:35:16 SpeedEvil: a whole lot fits in 64mb. arm code is more compact than at least x86 code and the jffs2 file system uses gzip compression. Feb 15 16:35:26 pH5, thanks for the answer :9 Feb 15 16:35:30 bitbake openmoko-devel-image, "NOTE: package glibc-intermediate-2.5-r4: task do_configure: started" "ERROR: function do_configure failed" *** LD_LIBRARY_PATH shouldn't contain the current directory when building glibc. Please change the nvironment variable and run configure again. Feb 15 16:35:38 what can I do? Feb 15 16:36:16 look at do_configure function for clue Feb 15 16:36:28 I was just wondering if there was a solid commitment saying 'This core software shall all fit in onboard flash'. Feb 15 16:36:52 why do you think it wont? Feb 15 16:37:19 it has to fit on;) Feb 15 16:37:46 look at handhelds.org for images Feb 15 16:38:08 i've used some GPE image which was about 28MB Feb 15 16:38:10 at some point for xterm probably s/compile/install/ ;-) Feb 15 16:38:10 SpeedEvil: if the software doens't fit... how will it work? Feb 15 16:38:21 rburton: bundled SD card. Feb 15 16:38:27 which you can't remove. useful! Feb 15 16:38:38 Yay... fixed my error... now to fix the memory leak I introduced alongside... Feb 15 16:38:42 Indeed - that was my question. Feb 15 16:38:48 SpeedEvil: trust me, 64M is plenty Feb 15 16:39:07 yes Feb 15 16:39:11 the nokia 770 had 64M flash Feb 15 16:39:23 SpeedEvil: i think, that you surely would have 32MB free for some onflash pr0n :) Feb 15 16:39:35 yes :( that is not very much... not with all the programs(not only core) being installed Feb 15 16:39:43 SpeedEvil: Ask rwhitby. He only has 8mb for his nslu2 stuff :) Feb 15 16:39:44 yeah, the ram was more of a problem on the 770 than the flash Feb 15 16:39:45 anyway you can make your own image just with stuff you use Feb 15 16:40:06 SpeedEvil: my N800 has 80M on / and i've got a fair amount of extra stuff installed Feb 15 16:40:12 also jffs2 is compressed Feb 15 16:40:18 an n800 is different again ;) Feb 15 16:40:20 K. Feb 15 16:40:26 what's n800 boot time? Feb 15 16:40:35 my n770 has nearly full up.. Feb 15 16:41:00 I mean _is Feb 15 16:41:02 I was wondering as I'm writing [[expansion back]] and it would make the SD slot accessable. Feb 15 16:41:06 i wonder how fast neo boots Feb 15 16:41:21 ynezz: a 50 seconds? can't recall the last time i booted it Feb 15 16:41:29 that's a lot :) Feb 15 16:41:39 it only boots when i change flash Feb 15 16:41:47 as a charge lasts about a week Feb 15 16:41:53 sure, but anyway it's lot :) Feb 15 16:41:58 yeah Feb 15 16:42:01 its being worked on Feb 15 16:42:17 basically, flash is slow, and there is a lot to read Feb 15 16:42:18 rburton: you need to switch it off to change flash? Feb 15 16:42:27 when i reflash it Feb 15 16:42:30 ah ;) Feb 15 16:42:48 can you flash the n770 with the current image? Feb 15 16:42:55 or is it not supported anymore? Feb 15 16:43:00 you can flash the 770 with the new 770 imae Feb 15 16:43:08 This post mentioned startup at least: http://syslog.movial.fi/archives/46-N800-VFP-or-not-to-VFP.html Feb 15 16:43:10 don't put IT2007 on it, or you'll have a brick Feb 15 16:43:12 hm, is it worth it? Feb 15 16:43:14 yes Feb 15 16:43:17 I thought so Feb 15 16:43:19 its got a few fixes in Feb 15 16:43:34 rburton: what do you mean it's worked on? do you have some link? Feb 15 16:43:38 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Messages <-- this doesn't support MMS? Feb 15 16:43:45 ynezz: no Feb 15 16:44:31 you mean on linux generaly? as it was published on ce-linux dev forum? Feb 15 16:44:47 counter Feb 15 16:44:48 P0: a week, 6 days 18:41:56 (7.779 - 13.779 days); P1: 29.779 - 44.779; P2: 197.779 - 227.779 (long: "/msg aloril counter?") (338) Feb 15 16:45:02 ynezz: there are many ways of speeding up boots Feb 15 16:45:25 true Feb 15 16:45:40 well, cu soon! I will have to work for school now ;) Feb 15 16:46:10 Where is the vibrator on the phone. I don't see it in the dissasembly pics, or the board layout. Feb 15 16:46:14 ? Feb 15 16:46:56 it's done via electric shock between pins D1 and P0 Feb 15 16:47:39 :) Feb 15 16:47:52 loufoque: I think that is case initially, MMS is later Feb 15 16:47:58 SpeedEvil, http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Disassembling_Neo1973#Empty_case_frame Feb 15 16:48:28 can someone tell my why is bitbake trying to fetch revision 11 instead of head fort kernel patches? Feb 15 16:49:12 morricone: I don't see it - that's the battery connector in the middle, and the two speakers isn't it? Feb 15 16:49:15 about 300GB for this year for releases 10GB each, so release every 2 or 3 weeks? I guess later you buy, more recent software it will have (which of course is irrelevant because you can anytime update to latest) Feb 15 16:49:35 SpeedEvil, read the title: You can actually see the two stereo speakers beneath the translucent cover, and next to it the small vibrator motor. Feb 15 16:49:35 Oh - right. Feb 15 16:49:48 Next to the battery connecto Feb 15 16:50:14 I'm sure those titles werne't there last I looked. Feb 15 16:50:16 Thanks. Feb 15 16:51:01 Checking history, it seems I have reading comprehension problems :) Feb 15 16:55:36 koen: i believe one intltool-update.in is the same as another, as long as its new enough Feb 15 16:55:48 koen: dates builds fine in poky, which is odd Feb 15 16:56:17 there might be soon more articles: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/openmoko-devel/2007-February/000410.html Feb 15 16:56:21 Where can I get information about the new case? Feb 15 16:57:28 how to specify svn co revision in bb file? Feb 15 16:57:50 svn help co Feb 15 16:58:24 in svn i know..but in bb file Feb 15 16:58:35 rev=what_i_need Feb 15 16:58:37 or how? Feb 15 16:58:53 hi guys Feb 15 16:58:57 in SRC Feb 15 16:59:06 loufoque: what are you referring to? black/silver? http://crunchgear.com/2007/02/15/openmokos-open-source-mobile-os/ Feb 15 16:59:31 ok..rev=head worked Feb 15 16:59:32 aloril: I've heard of a bigger case Feb 15 16:59:37 ~botmail for accumulator alsa contains a bug wrt C99 headers. you need to patch ALSA locally like i did in OE. Feb 15 16:59:48 hi mickeyl (repeat from earlier: ChanServ changed topic back ) Feb 15 17:00:13 can someone tell my why bitbake kept checking out rev 11 instead of head while building linux-gta01 kernel? Feb 15 17:00:15 loufoque: ah, I have heard only end user hackery speculation Feb 15 17:01:32 anyone seen this: Feb 15 17:01:34 | /usr/local/movies/openmoko/tmp/work/x86_64-linux/db3-native-3.2.9-r2/db-3.2.9/dist/../include/mutex.h:647: error: expected specifier-qualifier-list before 'tsl_t' Feb 15 17:01:34 | make: *** [db185.lo] Error 1 Feb 15 17:01:34 | FATAL: oe_runmake failed Feb 15 17:02:16 anyone tried to get openmoko running on the E2 yet? Feb 15 17:02:59 what's the E2? Feb 15 17:03:11 * SpeedEvil finishes editing http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Expansion_Back Feb 15 17:03:17 loufoque: one of the motorola linux phones. Feb 15 17:03:22 loufoque: motorola rokr e2 Feb 15 17:10:27 do nokia smartphones such as N7x use maemo? Feb 15 17:10:44 lol Feb 15 17:11:17 loufoque: no only the 770 and the N800 Feb 15 17:11:24 the phones all use symbian Feb 15 17:13:45 s/phones/S60 phones/ Feb 15 17:13:54 S30 and S40 don't Feb 15 17:14:16 (Series30 and Series40... I shouldn't shorten that too much) Feb 15 17:14:23 SpeedEvil: interesting, yeah back being one big piece does offer various possibilities: I think its likely there will be alternate backs (by somebody) Feb 15 17:16:10 aloril: thinks. fixed. Feb 15 17:16:14 s/thinks/thanks/ Feb 15 17:16:14 mickeyl meant: aloril: thanks. fixed. Feb 15 17:18:50 Even a 'simple' back, with no complex electronics is interesting. Feb 15 17:19:05 As it gives SD slot, and stylus holder, and alternate SIMs. Feb 15 17:19:12 what do you guys think of the greenphone? Feb 15 17:19:14 and a thinner phone perhaps Feb 15 17:19:21 * SpeedEvil doesn't like green. Feb 15 17:19:43 Stephmw: there is no simple way to make the phone thinner. Feb 15 17:20:06 You may be able to shave off a millimeter or two, by going through all the plastics. Feb 15 17:20:19 And to a thinner battery. Feb 15 17:20:32 This will make the phone less robust though. Feb 15 17:21:46 rburton: dates buils fine in OE as well, it's openmoko-dates that doesn't work Feb 15 17:21:53 rburton: and I can't figure out why :( Feb 15 17:22:04 koen: but they should be identical in build system :/ Feb 15 17:22:09 i'll run a meld Feb 15 17:22:25 hopefully a small change was missed Feb 15 17:23:38 koen: grrr configure etc are the same excluding the moko specific options Feb 15 17:23:56 koen: building from dates head? Feb 15 17:33:05 rburton: dates 0.3.1 and openmoko-dates head Feb 15 17:33:36 i've no idea what is going on :( Feb 15 17:34:31 * koen joins the club Feb 15 17:35:35 koen - what are your thoughts on dates vs. gpe-cal b/w openmoko & maemo? Feb 15 17:36:30 ajturner: I'm hoping that gpe-calendar get an eds-backend Feb 15 17:36:39 dates are very very simple Feb 15 17:36:41 I'm not entierly happy with the maemo dates gue Feb 15 17:36:42 * xkr47 looks at the L&F wiki page and wonders if people can be in multiple categories Feb 15 17:36:47 gui* Feb 15 17:36:50 s/people/contacts/ Feb 15 17:36:57 right - seems like GPE-cal is the future supported option? Feb 15 17:37:14 no idea on that Feb 15 17:37:31 I was one of the people that pushed mickeyl to recommend eds-dbus to fic :) Feb 15 17:38:29 * koen puts laptop away to eat some warm chocolate cake Feb 15 17:39:28 heated by laptop ?-) Feb 15 17:42:14 man, I'll have to hack db3-native-3.2.9-r2 Feb 15 17:53:18 * xkr47 is user id 126 in the wiki :) Feb 15 17:53:51 Question. There are several other Linux phone OS's out there, but will openMoko be available like they are? Could I flash it on my own smart phone so I wouldn't have to deal with WM5 anymore? Feb 15 17:54:14 Dragonfire9935: if you will get linux on it and adapt openmoko then yes Feb 15 17:54:15 cu Feb 15 17:54:37 cu Feb 15 17:54:50 Does anyone know how to get Linux on a uTStarcom xv6700? I tried previously with no luck. Feb 15 17:55:09 I don't even know if it can for that matter, just curious. Feb 15 17:57:19 oh no, the web servers are not responding Feb 15 17:58:45 hmm, harald seems to have managed to reimplement my smdk download tool at least a year after I wrote it Feb 15 17:59:49 ahhh the load on the webserver sucks :) . It is no fun editing the wiki at the moment :/ Feb 15 18:00:20 denis^da, it doesn't respond at all to me Feb 15 18:00:46 xkr47, for me it isn't responding as well Feb 15 18:00:58 well let's not bomb it further :) Feb 15 18:01:01 what, the wiki? Feb 15 18:01:09 LuitvD, yeah the wiki Feb 15 18:01:23 denis^da: okay, then I won't try to take a look :P Feb 15 18:01:24 Okay, so much for helping the wiki ;) Feb 15 18:01:48 I was going to fix a spelling mistake.. ;) Feb 15 18:01:56 lol Feb 15 18:01:57 <-- waiting for ML subscription confirmation ;) Feb 15 18:02:29 xkr47 - I wanted to declutter the main page ;) Feb 15 18:02:31 -does the neo lack 3G support because of the patents and royalties on 3G technologies? Feb 15 18:02:39 I wanted to transport the next things from the linuxtogo wiki but so I will have spare time :D Feb 15 18:03:26 LuitvD - I doubt it. I have no idea, why they have choosen this specific gsm module. Maybe, because it was affordable, no idea. Feb 15 18:03:30 (umts and WCDMA) Feb 15 18:03:33 "overwhelming" interest? :) Feb 15 18:03:48 (the slow webserver, I mena) Feb 15 18:03:56 Kero - yep. Feb 15 18:04:01 cool Feb 15 18:04:04 Elrond: I'm starting to believe it's because of the 28,5% royalties you'll have to pay for it... Feb 15 18:05:56 LuitvD - 29% of what? The final in-shop price, or what? Feb 15 18:06:01 http://www.amazon.com/gp/browse.html?node=201590011 theres a place for the mediawiki Feb 15 18:06:04 (I mean... if you wouldn't have to pay the royalties on UMTS, most devices would be 25% cheaper) Feb 15 18:06:14 the sites work again! \o/ Feb 15 18:06:39 yeah :) Feb 15 18:06:42 LuitvD - Ahh. Feb 15 18:06:51 Elrond: that's much huh? :P Feb 15 18:06:53 it works untill we start working :D Feb 15 18:07:12 LuitvD - Yep. :-| Feb 15 18:07:19 LuitvD: is that because telco's paid so much for a UMTS license, or because of patents? Feb 15 18:07:45 (I estimate an average UMTS phone at 300 dollars... that makes about 70 dollars on royalties for each device...) Feb 15 18:08:05 Kero: because of the patentholders that want royalties :) Feb 15 18:08:58 now I understand why china skipped 3G and chose to get to 4G right away Feb 15 18:08:59 LuitvD: I'll bet my employer is one of those patentholders. ironical how patents slow down acceptance of a next-gen technology... Feb 15 18:09:36 does china (really) honor patents these days? Feb 15 18:09:36 Kero: who do you work for then? Feb 15 18:09:56 Kero: Qualcomm is the worst :P Feb 15 18:10:02 LuitvD: Philips (possibly NXP has the patents now, tho) Feb 15 18:10:06 SpeedEvil, wow some nasty wallhacking there ;-) Feb 15 18:10:16 xkr47 :) Feb 15 18:10:27 9" angle grinders are surprisingly fun. Feb 15 18:10:33 You can whittle on walls. Feb 15 18:10:41 VEry, very dusty thouhg. Feb 15 18:10:43 SpeedEvil: what? Feb 15 18:10:52 anyone managed to apply http://svn.openmoko.org/trunk/src/target/kernel/patches/series to a kernel yet? Feb 15 18:11:21 LuitvD? Feb 15 18:11:35 i've unpacked 2.6.17, applied 2.6.17.14, and then tried quilt push -a Feb 15 18:11:41 SpeedEvil: wallhack? what? where? :P Feb 15 18:11:45 and it just moans about patches needing refreshing Feb 15 18:11:58 fluffs - Only some of them should be applied. Feb 15 18:11:58 LuitvD, check User:Speedevil on the wiki ;) Feb 15 18:12:03 aah Feb 15 18:12:05 Oh. Feb 15 18:12:08 xkr47: kay :P Feb 15 18:12:17 http://www.mauve.plus.com/walls.html is the url that's mentioned there. Feb 15 18:12:28 Elrond: ah, so the wiki is innacurae Feb 15 18:12:41 LuitvD - Regarding the royalties, I'm fine, that the Neo has no 3G. Feb 15 18:13:10 fluffs - The Hardware page has a patch URL for each hardware component. Feb 15 18:13:16 Elrond: I want HSDPA, rather then UMTS Feb 15 18:13:30 (and that's 3.5G I guess) Feb 15 18:14:14 Hey, I wont even use gprs. It's way too expensive. Feb 15 18:14:28 price will go down Feb 15 18:14:36 Elrond: HSDPA shouldn't be too expensive.. Feb 15 18:14:40 in usage Feb 15 18:14:42 * Kero just wants an open phone :) GPS is very cool, too! Feb 15 18:14:56 Kero: yeah, never had a GPS device :) Feb 15 18:14:56 Kero - Right. Feb 15 18:15:17 does anyone know a good GPS-Paining programme on linux? :P Feb 15 18:15:26 I have postponed buying a garmin for checking out neo. Feb 15 18:15:42 apparently not everything is released? http://svnweb.openmoko.org/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/openmoko-libs/libmokocore/ Feb 15 18:15:56 * Kero has no GPS experience, but imagines fun things can be done with it (on holidays in far away countries, too) Feb 15 18:16:04 GPRS is getting cheaper and cheaper so it is useful for messaging. I'm looking forward getting away from writing sms because they are really expensive :) Feb 15 18:16:31 denis^da: SMS only costs me 7 cents... Feb 15 18:16:55 denis^da: call that expensive? Feb 15 18:16:57 LuitvD, but one day being online with jabber costs me 10 cents ;) Feb 15 18:17:01 * Kero has even heard VoIP over gprs was cheaper (for a certain provider...) than phoning :) Feb 15 18:17:07 did you guys actually look more into geoclue? Feb 15 18:17:19 denis^da: how? Feb 15 18:17:26 denis^da: you mean at home? Feb 15 18:17:28 ljp: everything released. Feb 15 18:17:29 it was mentioned in the devel list once i remember Feb 15 18:17:35 ljp: if there is an empty dir, then there is no code yet :D Feb 15 18:17:51 Kero: that is VoIP over UMTS i guess... Feb 15 18:17:55 LuitvD, everywhere in my country because you just pay the amount of volume Feb 15 18:17:58 mickeyl: and I was so hoping to toy with openmoko-calendar :( Feb 15 18:17:58 interesting that it seems you use qmake :) Feb 15 18:18:04 LuitvD: possibly Feb 15 18:18:06 Kero ? Feb 15 18:18:07 denis^da: is that on GPRS? Feb 15 18:18:16 Kero: what makes you think you can't play w/ openmoko-dates ? Feb 15 18:18:16 LuitvD, yeah it is Feb 15 18:18:17 mickeyl: that dir was empty on my checkout? Feb 15 18:18:35 yeah, was looking for openmoko.calendar too... Feb 15 18:18:35 ljp: only for my personal use. we use autoconf throughout the project Feb 15 18:18:35 well Feb 15 18:18:39 mickeyl: of course I can play with other things; I will :) Feb 15 18:18:40 have a look into the oe recipe Feb 15 18:18:42 Kero, the source is out? Feb 15 18:18:44 LuitvD, 140 bytes transferred for 7 cents? Damn right it's expensive. Feb 15 18:18:45 openmoko-dates is out Feb 15 18:18:47 just not in our svn Feb 15 18:18:51 :D Feb 15 18:18:55 mickeyl: sneaky :) Feb 15 18:18:59 mjr: yeah.. okay... Feb 15 18:19:02 mjr, thats what I mean :) Feb 15 18:19:38 you prefer qmake to autocrap, hey? Feb 15 18:19:38 rd_: haven't noticed the topic change? again? Feb 15 18:19:53 LuitvD, the flatrates on GPRS are getting cheaper and cheaper so messaging through whatever messenger will be the future Feb 15 18:19:55 gsmd looks interesting Feb 15 18:19:56 err, i was travelling for more since monday -.- Feb 15 18:19:56 mjr: it's 160 bytes, at least :P Feb 15 18:20:20 ljp: what i like is having the option to build everything in place and in one run. Feb 15 18:20:27 and this is where qmake just rocks Feb 15 18:20:29 LuitvD, sms is just interesting for the cell phone providers :) Feb 15 18:20:39 is the battery rectangular Feb 15 18:20:51 or does it warp around the corner where the sim sits ? Feb 15 18:21:02 denis^da: it wasn't even supposed to be used for it's current purpose... :P Feb 15 18:21:19 buz: what do you reckon? :P Feb 15 18:21:24 rd_: time flies :) I saw the stuff yesterday Feb 15 18:21:47 looking at http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Main_Page Feb 15 18:21:55 Kero, k, time to check it out Feb 15 18:22:02 if the battery leaves the right space empty, theres plenty space for cabling to go up Feb 15 18:22:09 btw, happy chinese new year to asia ppl :D Feb 15 18:22:21 rd_: is that today? Feb 15 18:22:33 rd_: in what timezone? :P Feb 15 18:22:42 mickeyl: of course :) Feb 15 18:22:43 i was heading back home for the holidays Feb 15 18:22:50 LuitvD, not yet Feb 15 18:22:56 tomorrow Feb 15 18:23:03 rd_: ah Feb 15 18:23:26 well, in shanghai it's friday already... Feb 15 18:23:40 in brisbane too Feb 15 18:23:40 * Kero leaves, bbl Feb 15 18:23:40 3 o'clock there... Feb 15 18:23:58 where do you come from? In Germany here it is 8 pm :) Feb 15 18:24:07 ljp: that's even further away from greenwitch Feb 15 18:24:21 you = all the guys here in the chan :) Feb 15 18:24:34 denis^da: same timezone, guess which country Feb 15 18:24:37 :P Feb 15 18:24:40 its 5 here Feb 15 18:24:51 netherlands ;) Feb 15 18:24:58 @ LuitvD Feb 15 18:25:04 lol Feb 15 18:25:11 how did you know? Feb 15 18:25:24 just about ready to go into work and start crackin on the greenphone Feb 15 18:25:27 I am a magician ;) Feb 15 18:25:29 ljp: why does my pda tell me it's 5:00 in brisbane, and 6:00 in sidney? Feb 15 18:25:39 LuitvD, no just whoised you Feb 15 18:25:44 denis^da: lol Feb 15 18:25:53 because sydeny is stuckup and thinks it needs daylight savings time Feb 15 18:25:57 its 2AM here, in my hometown Feb 15 18:26:03 heh Feb 15 18:26:26 soo I will be back later on at night :) Feb 15 18:26:32 denis^da: But I'm not from hoofddorp as /whois tells you Feb 15 18:26:35 :P Feb 15 18:26:56 ljp: so sidney has DST, and brisbane doesn't? :S Feb 15 18:26:59 LuitvD, :P :) buuuut from the Netherlands :D Feb 15 18:27:05 denis^da: yes :P Feb 15 18:27:13 denis^da: you can tell from my IP... Feb 15 18:27:17 Linux version 2.6.20-moko7 (laforge@hanuman.de.gnumonks.org) (gcc version 4.1.1) #5 Thu Feb 15 19:29:04 CET 2007 Feb 15 18:27:20 (that's how whois knows) Feb 15 18:27:21 LuitvD, you see it is magic Feb 15 18:27:22 so.. is it possible to setup a linux box to emulate the neo processor, so ya can write programs without actually having one? Feb 15 18:27:36 LuitvD, the ip doesn't sound as good as magic ;) Feb 15 18:27:45 denis^da: what part of germany are you from? near the border with the netherlands? Feb 15 18:27:50 so I'm afk no :) Feb 15 18:27:55 LuitvD, not really Feb 15 18:28:06 which part? Feb 15 18:28:15 LuitvD, I'm leaving in the Bavarian part of germany near munich Feb 15 18:28:21 living :P Feb 15 18:28:32 well, you can leave that part, too ;) Feb 15 18:28:32 cut out the "leaving " :> Feb 15 18:28:46 LaF0rge, yeah I will leave now :D Feb 15 18:28:55 denis^da: try s/leaving/living/ :P Feb 15 18:29:08 next time you have a tpyo Feb 15 18:29:14 s/tpyo/typo/ Feb 15 18:29:16 LuitvD: yes, thankfully. queensland it too close to the tropics for daylight savings time to really have an effect, especially the northern half. Feb 15 18:29:17 see? Feb 15 18:29:21 LuitvD meant: next time you have a typo Feb 15 18:29:26 all people on this channel have embedded regex parsers in their brains ;) Feb 15 18:29:44 * LuitvD pets apt Feb 15 18:29:58 * ljp hates daylight savings time cause it gives him jet lag Feb 15 18:29:58 LaF0rge, :p Feb 15 18:30:13 ljp: so when will you hit europe? Feb 15 18:30:18 denis^aw: ah, is '^da' for 'present'/'here' ? :P Feb 15 18:30:44 yeah Feb 15 18:30:46 denis^aw: now I see :P didn't quite link german to your nickname :P Feb 15 18:30:51 and 'da' :P Feb 15 18:30:56 now it makes sense Feb 15 18:30:56 there Feb 15 18:31:04 LuitvD, noooow you got it :) Feb 15 18:31:05 * chairuou_home guess Feb 15 18:31:15 i will arrive next friday Feb 15 18:31:23 LuitvD, now I will be away for some poker round :> Feb 15 18:31:34 LuitvD, wish me luck :D Feb 15 18:31:38 denis^aw: good luck :P Feb 15 18:31:41 LaF0rge: All moko kernel patches are up-to-date with 2.6.20 yet? Feb 15 18:31:51 zecke: only staying till monday as my son is a handful, and my wife is preggers again Feb 15 18:31:53 denis^aw: don't loose too much money... Feb 15 18:32:03 LuitvD, max 2,50 € ;) Feb 15 18:32:14 denis^aw: you should still be able to buy a FIC Neo :P Feb 15 18:32:24 LuitvD, definetly :D Feb 15 18:32:39 * LuitvD wants to get a job... Feb 15 18:32:41 :( Feb 15 18:33:15 trolltech is still hiring if you are a c++ developer Feb 15 18:33:30 and have an australian work permit Feb 15 18:33:36 ljp: I'm only 17 years old... what do you expect of me :P Feb 15 18:33:50 ljp: and I don't want a greenphone... I want a Neo :P Feb 15 18:33:57 LuitvD: why not go to college? Feb 15 18:34:00 zecke: not required. look at me Feb 15 18:34:07 cjb: what do you mean? Feb 15 18:34:39 Depending on where he lives, he might be to young. Or he might go to college. Feb 15 18:34:48 (netherlands, right?) Feb 15 18:34:52 cjb: i'm doing my last year of high-school... (which is bloody boring) and after that I will do college... Feb 15 18:35:03 ozamosi: yeah, got half a year to go for that Feb 15 18:35:14 LuitvD: enjoy HS Feb 15 18:35:16 I've been going to college for half a year :) Feb 15 18:35:25 you will never do less than during that time ;) Feb 15 18:35:50 buz: I found out about that now :P Feb 15 18:35:53 Especially the last half year :) Feb 15 18:36:37 * LuitvD isn't that surprised if he'd die of boredom Feb 15 18:36:58 s/isn't/wouldn't be/ Feb 15 18:37:20 One two hour lecture at a college is like a 6 months class at high school. And highest grade at high school is like just passing in college. At least here, at least for me :) Feb 15 18:37:22 "Externally-accessible GPS antenna jack" Feb 15 18:37:25 especially now... got nearly 2 weeks off Feb 15 18:37:28 Does that mean, what I think it means? Feb 15 18:38:07 There is not current GPS jack AIUI. Feb 15 18:38:10 Elrond: you think it means that you'd have to connect that to even use it? Feb 15 18:38:12 s/not/no/ Feb 15 18:38:13 SpeedEvil meant: There is no current GPS jack AIUI. Feb 15 18:38:30 Just a GSM one. Feb 15 18:38:46 neo have GSM jack? Feb 15 18:39:34 SpeedEvil: the only connectors I've seen so-far are an USB plug and a headset jack... Feb 15 18:40:09 http://wiki.openmoko.org/images/2/25/Gta01b_v3_case_top_open_white.jpg Feb 15 18:40:32 isn't the brown thing on the right the GPS device? Feb 15 18:40:45 (and bluetooth??) Feb 15 18:40:58 mickeyl: did you send case/device samples to your GPS module provider? Feb 15 18:40:58 No. Feb 15 18:41:07 Bluetooth is next to the battery, on the back. Feb 15 18:41:27 SpeedEvil: behind the battery? Feb 15 18:41:30 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Image:Gta01b_v3_case_top_open_pcb_lifted.jpg Feb 15 18:41:33 at the top Feb 15 18:41:34 strange location Feb 15 18:41:48 zecke: the gps module provider regularly visits taiwan Feb 15 18:41:48 koen: hmm. re openmoko-dates. try adding inherit gnome Feb 15 18:41:49 that's the bluetooth antenna. - the green board with the square thing. Feb 15 18:42:07 mickeyl: I think they show a neo at their 3gsm booth Feb 15 18:42:13 The GPS is the module to the left, connected by a gray wire. Feb 15 18:42:31 And next to the wire is the GSM antenna - I think. Feb 15 18:42:35 SpeedEvil: that one I did know... but the bluetooth... still don't see it :P Feb 15 18:42:46 SpeedEvil: the GSM antenna is on the other side Feb 15 18:42:54 the big black thing with some copper on it Feb 15 18:43:11 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Disassembling_Neo1973#GSM_Antenna Feb 15 18:43:53 The bluetooth is the one I linked to. Feb 15 18:43:56 the image Feb 15 18:44:01 SpeedEvil: ah, now I see the bluetooth :P Feb 15 18:44:03 it's the green board at the top of the image. Feb 15 18:44:08 Elrond: from the Neo1973_Hardware-wiki-page: "Accessible GSM/GPRS antenna jack (if battery cover is removed)" Feb 15 18:44:16 SpeedEvil: on top of that metal structure, right? Feb 15 18:44:19 yes. Feb 15 18:44:28 ozamosi - Ahh. Feb 15 18:44:28 ah Feb 15 18:44:49 SpeedEvil: and next to/below the SIM card slot is the micro-SD card slot, right? Feb 15 18:45:13 yes. Feb 15 18:45:31 The microsd card is under the inserted SIM. Feb 15 18:45:51 I'm unsure - that jack may be GPS on reflection. Feb 15 18:46:03 what are the jackplug and the button on the non-usb side for? Feb 15 18:46:25 that's the '911/extra' buytton and the audio. Feb 15 18:46:26 AIUI. Feb 15 18:46:26 there's a jack and a button on each side... Feb 15 18:46:43 One side is on-off and USB, the other alternate button and audio. Feb 15 18:46:54 and the jack on the other side is for what, headset? gsm antenna? Feb 15 18:47:19 Of the USB? Feb 15 18:47:32 The one ont eh other side from the USB is stereo out and mic in. Feb 15 18:47:33 oh wait, that ain't no jack :P Feb 15 18:47:34 headset Feb 15 18:47:36 that's the antenna Feb 15 18:47:40 headset. Feb 15 18:47:45 headset... Feb 15 18:47:49 yeah... headset :P Feb 15 18:47:51 makes more sense Feb 15 18:48:11 Teh green board - the square thing on top of it is a ceramic bluetooth antenna. Feb 15 18:48:22 stefan: yes, i just merged into 2.6.20. seemed less painful than expected Feb 15 18:48:41 lol, '911/other button' :P don't think 911 works here :P Feb 15 18:49:54 SpeedEvil: the thing with the hairpin-style leads is the antenna... Feb 15 18:50:07 right? Feb 15 18:50:14 hang on, I'm annotating. Feb 15 18:50:14 LaF0rge: nice. That means I have to fight with genirq again, when I like to kep up-to-date. :) Feb 15 18:50:26 the image on the wiki rather than explaining on IRC :) Feb 15 18:50:59 ljp: what did you do with sandman? did you suck him into a blackhole? Feb 15 18:51:25 hes still up there Feb 15 18:52:10 poor sandman... he must be about a nanometer in diameter now... Feb 15 18:52:11 so you tricked him to hire at the munich office just to get him to oslo? Feb 15 18:52:47 not real sure which office he is at Feb 15 18:53:07 but hes on our internal irc Feb 15 18:53:17 berlin one? I should give him a call Feb 15 18:54:34 * LuitvD wants more pictures of the black+silver Neo Feb 15 18:55:35 ^^ Feb 15 18:56:45 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Disassembling_Neo1973#Removing_PCB_from_case_frame added text Feb 15 18:56:45 SpeedEvil: that Bluetooth antenna is quite a thick piece of PCB :P Feb 15 18:56:50 It's not PCB. Feb 15 18:57:02 It's some ceramic material, with stuff in it. Feb 15 18:57:50 SpeedEvil: is that true? Feb 15 18:58:09 the ceramic-ish material is of no use, since it's no conductor... Feb 15 18:58:34 and it does look like multi-layered PCB Feb 15 18:59:02 its a precisely tuned piece of ceramic glass, with a inner core of dark matter... or so i heard :P Feb 15 18:59:18 Psi_: lol, good guess... but NO Feb 15 18:59:46 i know what a bluetooth-antenna is like... and most of the time it's just a one-layered piece of PCB Feb 15 19:00:02 with precisely measured copper leads... Feb 15 19:00:23 (the length/size optimally tuned to the frequency of bluetooth) Feb 15 19:01:00 Psi_: bah... Come back when it includes a black hole :) Feb 15 19:01:07 too bad the vibrator is a visible-moving-parts-vibrator... Feb 15 19:01:21 (7 cents and 160 bytes)/SMS is $437.5 / 1MiB, expensive indeed: would be cheaper to buy neo and send IM/email ;-) Feb 15 19:01:55 note to self.. never attempt TCP/IP over SMS Feb 15 19:01:58 ozamosi: black matter is a better guess then black-hole :P Feb 15 19:02:06 leventhal: LOL Feb 15 19:02:42 LuitvD: but black holes are cooler :) Feb 15 19:03:10 ozamosi: but not very portable ;) Feb 15 19:03:24 ozamosi: dark matter is very portable :P Feb 15 19:03:49 LuitvD: we'll make it a very small black hole! Feb 15 19:04:08 ozamosi: still very heavy.... Feb 15 19:04:33 hell, even a needlepin-sized black hole would be at lease 10 times your weight... Feb 15 19:04:39 rburton: inherit gnome autotools pkgconfig gtk-icon-cache didn't work Feb 15 19:04:42 (or 20 times mine :P) Feb 15 19:04:49 * koen wonders why it doesn't work Feb 15 19:04:56 koen: ? Feb 15 19:04:58 koen: god damn it Feb 15 19:05:48 holy hell, did they drown the bluetooth PCB in solder-flux or something? :S Feb 15 19:06:16 koen: when we make this build its going to be something very embarrassing i can tell Feb 15 19:06:16 rburton: My main annoyance is that I don't know what to blaim :( Feb 15 19:06:43 rburton: I bet it's a small typo somewhere Feb 15 19:06:44 s/blaim/blame/ ? Feb 15 19:06:49 LuitvD: right Feb 15 19:06:52 :P Feb 15 19:07:08 good luck getting thru airport security black matter Feb 15 19:07:26 buz: dark matter, not black matter :P Feb 15 19:07:35 oh right Feb 15 19:07:35 still Feb 15 19:07:35 lol Feb 15 19:07:40 it happens all the time Feb 15 19:07:58 it does? Feb 15 19:07:58 it's invisible... that makes it easy to get across the border Feb 15 19:08:22 dark matter is actually something really invisible Feb 15 19:08:32 * xkr47 filled in his user page on the wiki ;) Feb 15 19:08:41 some people can sense it, beats me how, but it's not visible... Feb 15 19:09:26 xkr47: phase1 customer? Feb 15 19:09:51 rburton: NOTE: package dates-0.3.1-r0: task do_build: completed Feb 15 19:09:57 * koen diffs the two trees Feb 15 19:10:13 koen: i just diffed clean source trees, nothing but the moko changes Feb 15 19:10:21 i'd be curious to see what is different in the builds Feb 15 19:10:27 rburton: nothing strange in the autofoo? Feb 15 19:10:35 nothing i can see Feb 15 19:10:45 LuitvD, well.. I'm paying for my phone and getting one when they become available :) Feb 15 19:10:45 maybe if the light of their flashlights is drawn towards it... Feb 15 19:11:00 or eaten by it Feb 15 19:11:04 Ok - more text added to some images in http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Disassembling_Neo1973 I think that covers all of it. Feb 15 19:11:14 xkr47: how? Feb 15 19:11:21 xkr47: /me wants :P Feb 15 19:11:42 This is based on mailing list stuff, knowledge of electronics, the pictures on the wiki, and the component diagram. Feb 15 19:11:56 LuitvD, how to get a phone.. well just order from their pages.. as soon as it's possible:) Feb 15 19:12:07 xkr47: :) thnkx Feb 15 19:12:39 :) Feb 15 19:12:48 strange, when calling, the GPS module is right next to your head... isn't that dangerous? :P Feb 15 19:13:01 SpeedEvil, niiice Feb 15 19:13:10 LuitvD - gps is passive Feb 15 19:13:17 ajturner: I KNOW ! Feb 15 19:13:18 :P Feb 15 19:13:25 you should worry more about GSM/WiFi/BT :) Feb 15 19:13:36 thank you captain obvious Feb 15 19:13:58 not obvious to many Feb 15 19:14:02 ajturner: just got that reaction from someone who walked by, looking at the pictures I had on my screen Feb 15 19:14:07 ;) Feb 15 19:14:07 i'd be more worried about the battery Feb 15 19:14:09 xkr47: On your user page, you mention visibility when off. Feb 15 19:14:13 wanted to post Feb 15 19:14:22 xkr47: the LCD datasheet says none. Feb 15 19:14:42 There is a tradeoff between visibility when off, and transparency. Feb 15 19:15:00 You can either have 70% transmission, or 35% transmission, and 3% reflection. Feb 15 19:15:16 no reflection? that sucks Feb 15 19:15:16 -#!@INTLTOOL_PERL@ -w+ #!@INTLTOOL_PERL@ Feb 15 19:15:28 no clock when backlight is off :( Feb 15 19:15:28 rburton: could that be it? Feb 15 19:15:28 SpeedEvil: it might be visible... but it'd be very faint Feb 15 19:15:39 koen: hmmm Feb 15 19:15:42 I have never seen the display in question, it just says 'N/A' in the LCD selection matrix against reflection. Feb 15 19:15:47 koen: no idea, i'll see what that does Feb 15 19:15:52 One thing I've mentioned before. Feb 15 19:16:08 SpeedEvil, ah so it's not usable without backlight ? Feb 15 19:16:18 If you have one LED of the probable dozen in the backlight that's on constantly, then you can backlight a small patch. Feb 15 19:16:31 xkr47: according to all information I've seen - no. Feb 15 19:16:34 lol nice Feb 15 19:16:42 SpeedEvil: though if you can control the backlight (by PWM?) you can set the intensity, making it possible to set about 20% backlight when viewing the clock Feb 15 19:16:45 can you control the backlight leds separately :O Feb 15 19:16:52 xkr47: no. Feb 15 19:16:55 hehe Feb 15 19:16:59 somehow i doubt it Feb 15 19:17:02 lol Feb 15 19:17:07 tho it would be a neat thing to have Feb 15 19:17:09 yes, PWMing it to a low level will give you some visibility at the cost of battery life. Feb 15 19:17:10 would be madness to do that... Feb 15 19:17:12 blinkenlights Feb 15 19:17:24 koen: intltool_perl, i think, is just the path to perl Feb 15 19:17:28 yes Feb 15 19:17:30 not sure if the hardware rellay likes you doing pwm on it Feb 15 19:17:30 lol, PWM on a 10Hz frequency :P Feb 15 19:17:46 howto: kill your eyes :P Feb 15 19:17:47 damn, no effect Feb 15 19:17:49 koen: might be it, but why is it different? Feb 15 19:18:07 buz: why not? Feb 15 19:18:15 different revisions of intltool-update I guess Feb 15 19:18:22 who knows Feb 15 19:18:31 buz: what else do you think controls the backlight intensity... Feb 15 19:18:33 maybe it doesnt like current spikes very much Feb 15 19:18:38 It's LED. Feb 15 19:18:42 mhh point Feb 15 19:18:43 LED backlights don't care. Feb 15 19:18:46 every LED backlight I know is PWM--controlled Feb 15 19:18:53 Consider http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Image:Panel_top_panel.png Feb 15 19:19:10 If this right bit only was illuminated, that would be reasonable information. Feb 15 19:19:11 and the electronics should be adapted to accept PWM :P Feb 15 19:19:26 It's software PWM as I understand it. Feb 15 19:20:16 Of course, there is a problem. The LCD requires frequent refreshing - probably at least 10Hz, or it will go out. Feb 15 19:20:22 yuck, so it eats cpu. Feb 15 19:20:23 SpeedEvil: I doubt that... Feb 15 19:20:26 This means that the CPU would need to be on. Feb 15 19:20:40 SpeedEvil: where did you read that? Feb 15 19:20:44 LCDs are not static devices, you can't write them and leave them to display images. Feb 15 19:20:50 just about any phone i've seen in the past 5 years shows clock when its on "standby" Feb 15 19:20:58 There is no seperate display driver, it's integrated in the CPU. Feb 15 19:20:59 even my microchips have at least 2 hardware-controlled PWM pins Feb 15 19:21:16 SpeedEvil: doesn't mean the CPU has to be turned on... Feb 15 19:21:16 SpeedEvil: neither is there for the cheap phones Feb 15 19:21:22 So, you have to have the CPU at least a little on, in order to run the display. Feb 15 19:21:30 SpeedEvil: and I guess the power-control chip has a Backlight function too... Feb 15 19:21:34 buz: my spendy htc windows mobile device does not show a clock Feb 15 19:21:40 Look at the display driver chips. Feb 15 19:21:41 SpeedEvil: It even has a touchscreen interface Feb 15 19:21:43 it has to blank the screen to go on standby Feb 15 19:21:49 These are _dumb_ chips. Feb 15 19:21:49 that is probably more related to windows mobile than the hardware Feb 15 19:21:50 PWM can be driven in semi sleep mode...all i have seen so far Feb 15 19:22:01 They are just shift registers. Feb 15 19:22:05 my p900 shows a clockj Feb 15 19:22:12 but then again it has transreflective screen Feb 15 19:22:13 koen: mickey might have fixed it Feb 15 19:22:20 SpeedEvil: shift register + clock, most likely, yes Feb 15 19:22:25 SpeedEvil - isn't this a tft? Feb 15 19:22:31 rburton: in svn? Feb 15 19:22:34 There is no display RAM in there, so they can't self-refresh. Feb 15 19:22:35 not that i really need the clock Feb 15 19:22:37 but many do Feb 15 19:22:45 (i always and everywhere wear a watch) Feb 15 19:23:18 darn, this chat is going way to quick for me :P Feb 15 19:23:21 buz - I can't wear a watch at work. ;) Feb 15 19:23:37 i don't work ;) Feb 15 19:23:42 buz: lol! Feb 15 19:24:07 not right now anyway Feb 15 19:24:11 TFT displays do not maintain their state when you turn off the drive. Feb 15 19:24:18 I have to leave my phone in the office, when I go in the lab. I'd need to put off my watch too. ;) Feb 15 19:24:27 They take a fair time to decay to invisibility though. Feb 15 19:24:40 rburton: what did mickeyl (not) do? Feb 15 19:24:46 SpeedEvil - how long? Feb 15 19:25:29 are there any battery life time experiences yet? Feb 15 19:25:40 Elrond: dunno - it depends on display. On the ones I've seen (couple of notebooks) it was under a second. Feb 15 19:25:41 Elrond: latex gloves? Feb 15 19:25:46 Note: The s3c2410 can be switched into 12MHz mode. (and takes a lot less energy then) Feb 15 19:25:52 Elrond: latex gloves + watch is always bad :P Feb 15 19:26:02 I've got to read the s3 datasheet. Feb 15 19:26:09 LuitvD - heavy static magnet fields. Feb 15 19:26:24 Elrond: ah, I see... Feb 15 19:26:28 Elrond: true - but can the display controller refresh the screen nominally then. Feb 15 19:26:47 * SpeedEvil needs to check the datasheet. Feb 15 19:26:54 SpeedEvil - It's an official mode of the CPU. Feb 15 19:26:54 Elrond: you need a PURE titanium watch ;) Feb 15 19:26:58 * SpeedEvil needs to eat first though. Feb 15 19:27:01 Elrond: you do something chromatography-related or something? :P Feb 15 19:27:15 Elrond: becasue it's a official mode does not mean that all peripherals work. Feb 15 19:27:20 MRI have large magnetic fields Feb 15 19:27:28 and potential for profound hilarity Feb 15 19:27:31 Even small magnetic fields can kill stuff. Feb 15 19:27:39 I lost an LCD backlight to a fridge magnet. Feb 15 19:27:40 buz: do titanium-etch systems exist? :P Feb 15 19:27:51 Saturated the magnetic transformer. Feb 15 19:28:00 buz - hilarity? Feb 15 19:28:04 blew fuse - entirely repeatable. Feb 15 19:28:13 flying stuff fits my definition of hilarity Feb 15 19:28:24 then again i have a weird sense of humour Feb 15 19:28:28 :P Feb 15 19:28:32 not at all... Feb 15 19:28:34 buz: its more eminent danger Feb 15 19:28:35 (in my opinion) Feb 15 19:28:38 than hilarity Feb 15 19:28:51 Ahh, okay. Feb 15 19:29:23 buz: a metal knob once missed me only a little bit Feb 15 19:29:28 buz: the magnetic field of those devices is overrated... Feb 15 19:29:43 i think there's different categories of mri Feb 15 19:29:48 :P Feb 15 19:30:23 I once tried to change an NMR's magnetic field with my blood :) Feb 15 19:30:38 (iron in blood can be sensed magnetically) Feb 15 19:31:05 and how did that work out for you? Feb 15 19:31:05 stepping towards an NMR changes it's magnetic field a little :) Feb 15 19:31:17 ljp: it felt odd... but it worked Feb 15 19:31:38 MRI is only ~2T Feb 15 19:31:38 LuitvD - What did you feel?! Feb 15 19:31:40 LuitvD: just think hard, thats enough Feb 15 19:31:48 only... Feb 15 19:31:53 harlekin: to feel odd you mean? Feb 15 19:31:55 not exactly my definition of only Feb 15 19:32:17 LuitvD: no, to have impact on the mri image Feb 15 19:32:18 .-) Feb 15 19:32:24 it felt odd because the magnets on that device were freezing cold Feb 15 19:32:32 LuitvD: guess qhy Feb 15 19:32:33 harlekin: yeah, it's quite easy :P Feb 15 19:32:48 harlekin: yeah, I know why, superconductance etc. Feb 15 19:32:50 LuitvD: fMRI <- thinking hard, less oxygen, different image Feb 15 19:33:02 fMRI? Feb 15 19:33:09 functional MRI Feb 15 19:33:13 ah Feb 15 19:33:20 - if grep "^AC_PROG_INTLTOOL" $CONFIGURE_AC >/dev/null; then Feb 15 19:33:20 + if grep "^[AI][CT]_PROG_INTLTOOL" $CONFIGURE_AC >/dev/null; then Feb 15 19:33:23 * koen ponders Feb 15 19:33:27 real time imaging to see _where_ the pacient is currently thinking Feb 15 19:33:32 fMRI is neat stuff Feb 15 19:33:35 harlekin: no it's a diffrent device I played with... Feb 15 19:33:47 two economics professors at my university use them to figure out how people behave ;) Feb 15 19:33:49 LuitvD: is a different application Feb 15 19:33:49 Yep. Feb 15 19:33:55 That's what we need in the neo. Feb 15 19:34:00 fMRI. Feb 15 19:34:01 LuitvD: and also often a different devices as well Feb 15 19:34:10 SpeedEvil - In v4 ;) Feb 15 19:34:12 "Now you can read your opponents thoughts" Feb 15 19:34:12 Can you get them in USB2D? Feb 15 19:34:16 SpeedEvil: yeah, a 2T field Feb 15 19:34:26 harlekin: an NMR device to look at certain aromatic bindings... Feb 15 19:34:31 rburton: the change to autotools.bbclass fixed it Feb 15 19:34:34 SpeedEvil: great idea, will really fullfill its purpose as PHONE Feb 15 19:34:49 LuitvD: missed the NMR Feb 15 19:34:53 just saw MRI Feb 15 19:34:54 .-) Feb 15 19:34:56 If it can read your mind, and give you information before you ask for it. Feb 15 19:34:58 ... Feb 15 19:34:58 lol Feb 15 19:35:01 MRI is NMR too ;) Feb 15 19:35:02 NMR = MRI Feb 15 19:35:09 SpeedEvil: lol, beaten Feb 15 19:35:11 LuitvD: but basicly NMR Is the same technique Feb 15 19:35:19 Same thing, different name. It got renamed after 'nuclear' became a scary word. Feb 15 19:35:20 ... Feb 15 19:35:20 SpeedEvil: LuitvD not really Feb 15 19:35:29 nucular==evil Feb 15 19:35:34 * harlekin gets the dictionary Feb 15 19:35:47 MRI == MRT (german) Feb 15 19:35:50 buz: be happy you have nucliei Feb 15 19:36:00 Magnetic resonance imaging (MRI), formerly referred to as magnetic resonance tomography (MRT) or, in chemistry nuclear magnetic resonance (NMR), is a non-invasive method used to render images of the inside of an object Feb 15 19:36:00 (plural of nucleus?) Feb 15 19:36:12 ii Feb 15 19:36:13 nucleii i think Feb 15 19:36:18 yeah Feb 15 19:36:23 buz: yeah Feb 15 19:36:28 :) Feb 15 19:36:32 hihi. Feb 15 19:36:39 LuitvD: i had biology/chemistry as my main topics in highschool ;) Feb 15 19:36:50 nmr alone is usually without the "I"maging. Feb 15 19:36:52 but MRI was first called Nuclear Magnatic Resonance Imaging Feb 15 19:37:15 the nucleii are the things that are resonating ;) Feb 15 19:37:24 so MRI is an incomplete term... Feb 15 19:37:33 NMR != MRI Feb 15 19:37:33 .-) Feb 15 19:37:36 lol Feb 15 19:37:37 I KNOW Feb 15 19:37:42 but MRI is Nuclear too Feb 15 19:37:44 it is the same physical efect Feb 15 19:37:58 yeah, that's what I'm saying :P Feb 15 19:38:00 MRI uses NMR. Feb 15 19:38:01 yeah, because it uses the spin effect of the nucleii Feb 15 19:38:13 yeah Feb 15 19:38:15 period Feb 15 19:38:16 Magnetic field, twang it, listen to the twang. Feb 15 19:38:17 arg, in english NMR is overloaded Feb 15 19:38:18 next subject :P Feb 15 19:38:22 XD Feb 15 19:38:31 wtf is XD Feb 15 19:38:37 Even works in earths normal magnetic field. Feb 15 19:38:41 basic procedure AS well as the basic effect Feb 15 19:38:43 But the output frequency is really low. Feb 15 19:39:22 SpeedEvil - Yep. We try to get the earth field out by applying soe coils that try to apply the inverse field. Feb 15 19:39:36 http://fukung.net/v/245/1b-GSMinswearing1res.jpg Feb 15 19:39:37 oops Feb 15 19:39:38 mischan Feb 15 19:39:45 though sort of relevant. Feb 15 19:39:52 lol Feb 15 19:39:56 gsm... Feb 15 19:40:00 * LuitvD clicks Feb 15 19:40:16 wehehe, GSM for assgoblins Feb 15 19:40:17 nice Feb 15 19:40:35 lo Feb 15 19:40:37 l Feb 15 19:40:40 "and that's how you get a fucking phonecall" :D Feb 15 19:41:02 "Radio waves, they are fucking blue, shut up asshole" :P Feb 15 19:41:13 s/shut/shut the fuck/ Feb 15 19:41:13 LuitvD meant: "Radio waves, they are fucking blue, shut the fuck up asshole" :P Feb 15 19:41:28 * LuitvD doublechecks that... Feb 15 19:41:53 mickey|dinner: is bitbake-1.6.4 the recommend version of bitbake? I would update the notes/wiki to not mention it :) Feb 15 19:42:49 :-) Feb 15 19:42:54 lol, radiowaves should be red Feb 15 19:42:57 :D Feb 15 19:43:41 a small advertising for any1 interesting in http://www.segfault.net/gsm/challenge1.txt Feb 15 19:43:42 radiowaves are on the red side of the visible electromagnetic spectrum Feb 15 19:44:46 rd_: what's that? Feb 15 19:45:03 LuitvD, check this project http://scratchpad.wikia.com/wiki/Gsm Feb 15 19:45:49 we're looking for more developers to join that project :) Feb 15 19:46:05 rd_: is that... trying to decode GSM phone calls? Feb 15 19:46:36 LuitvD, yeap .. kind of Feb 15 19:46:46 decoding GSM traffic... Feb 15 19:46:49 right? Feb 15 19:48:51 uhm radiowaves as in EM waves can be pretty much any part of the spectrum Feb 15 19:49:10 buz: heuh? Feb 15 19:49:37 radiowaves are low-frequency EM waves Feb 15 19:50:22 the other side of the EM spectrum is gammarays and röntgen and UV and stuff... Feb 15 19:50:51 well if you consider stuff up to say 200mhz to be radio, then sure Feb 15 19:51:14 i would say UV is pretty much on the low end still Feb 15 19:51:40 LuitvD, check the "Project Stages and Schedule" section on that wiki page Feb 15 19:51:50 wooooo Feb 15 19:51:50 oh wait Feb 15 19:51:57 another batch of bugs fixed Feb 15 19:52:01 * koen hugs openmoko devs Feb 15 19:52:07 buz: radio is everything below 10^9Hz Feb 15 19:52:25 then what is WiFi Feb 15 19:52:31 or GSM 1800 for one Feb 15 19:52:31 radio Feb 15 19:52:36 all radio Feb 15 19:53:25 well.. 10 ^ 10 Hz is still radio :P Feb 15 19:53:56 a bit higher and they're microwaves :) Feb 15 19:55:30 at least up to 10 GHz it's all radio Feb 15 19:56:24 rd_: I'll take a look :) Feb 15 19:56:36 the electronics part is quite interesting Feb 15 19:57:19 rd_: I'm more of en electronics guy then software developer :) Feb 15 19:58:05 * LuitvD would really love to work on the hardware of the next openmoko device :( Feb 15 19:59:17 i think someone wanted to build an opensource HARDWARE phone at some point Feb 15 19:59:53 buz: the tuxphone Feb 15 20:00:15 buz: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TuxPhone Feb 15 20:00:52 oh yeah now i remember why i never got one ;) Feb 15 20:00:56 mickey|dinner: http://www.flickr.com/photos/koenkooi/391406865/ <- bug 186 fixed :D Feb 15 20:02:08 koen: is that an actual screenshot from within openmoko? :| Feb 15 20:02:54 * LuitvD wants an openmoko-capable device too... :( Feb 15 20:03:23 well the htc universal works quite well i hear ;) Feb 15 20:03:47 What's the circular thing at the bottom left. Feb 15 20:03:56 and the device koen uses... Feb 15 20:04:03 I've seen it in a number of images and missed an explanation. Feb 15 20:04:12 koen: i presume i can close 185 now? Feb 15 20:04:17 SpeedEvil: some sort of clickwheel Feb 15 20:04:26 SpeedEvil: for finger-based input Feb 15 20:04:36 well the ipaq isnt big on phoning Feb 15 20:05:02 buz: true, but it has a massive cpu and a nice screen :) Feb 15 20:05:23 LuitvD: ah. Feb 15 20:06:16 * SpeedEvil wonders if there is a market for nice wooden cases for the neo. Feb 15 20:06:40 i somehow doubt it Feb 15 20:06:46 geeks and wood usually doesnt really fit Feb 15 20:07:04 Wood can be very pretty and feel nice. Feb 15 20:07:22 i'm more for metal myself Feb 15 20:07:23 SpeedEvil: nice steel or aluminium cases would do... Feb 15 20:07:33 Metal has subtle problems for a phone :) Feb 15 20:07:39 ... shit for rf reception yes Feb 15 20:07:52 stainless brushed steel, or magnesium/aluminium Feb 15 20:07:58 titanium Feb 15 20:08:00 :P Feb 15 20:08:01 If metal, I want damasteel. Feb 15 20:08:06 damasteel? Feb 15 20:08:18 lol Feb 15 20:08:18 Which is a fake damasus steel, made by powder metallurgy. Feb 15 20:08:33 i'd like spring-steel :P Feb 15 20:08:43 brushed stainless Feb 15 20:08:47 You take two sorts of micro-fine stainless powders. Print them together in a pattern sort of 3d-prototyping like. Feb 15 20:08:47 where can i sign up Feb 15 20:08:55 :P Feb 15 20:09:17 maybe if you connect the gsm antenna to the case Feb 15 20:09:18 Then seal in a steel container, and under vacuum and 1000C, squeeze it together till it's homogenous. Feb 15 20:09:44 This gives you a stainless (once treated) metal that's really really strong, and has pretty wood-like grain. Feb 15 20:10:04 http://www.damasteel.biz/ Feb 15 20:10:14 On the downside, it's as expensive as silver. Feb 15 20:10:18 and it's several hundreds of dollars for each device? Feb 15 20:10:30 Pretty much :) Feb 15 20:11:15 as expensive as your phone :P Feb 15 20:12:06 silver is not really that expensive Feb 15 20:12:24 SpeedEvil: and 1000atm isn't exactly 'under vacuum' :P Feb 15 20:12:24 No, it's not cheap - especially when you have to mill the stuff away to get the grain effect. Feb 15 20:12:35 You evacuate the gas, then press it. Feb 15 20:12:42 So that tehre are no gas bubbles. Feb 15 20:12:43 SpeedEvil: it'd be nice though... very nice... Feb 15 20:12:43 :P Feb 15 20:13:06 yeah it looks nice Feb 15 20:13:16 but titanium would be fine by me ;) Feb 15 20:13:22 lol Feb 15 20:13:28 I'm in the process of making a flashlight with some of this. Feb 15 20:13:32 * LuitvD wonders which of those options is the cheapest Feb 15 20:13:55 titanium is $$$ Feb 15 20:14:17 Titanium however can be molded. Feb 15 20:14:28 Or pressed. Feb 15 20:14:47 I think a magnesium-aluminium hull would do fine... it's strong, it looks nice, you can anodize it in any color you like... Feb 15 20:14:50 and it still is metal Feb 15 20:15:05 and doesn't interfere with the RF signals that much Feb 15 20:15:11 Err - what? Feb 15 20:15:22 It's completely opaque to RF. Feb 15 20:15:23 ? Feb 15 20:15:35 SpeedEvil: that's what I'm saying... Feb 15 20:15:37 magnesium-aluminium. Feb 15 20:15:40 doesn't interfere... Feb 15 20:15:44 interfere.. Feb 15 20:15:49 hmm, is that the correct word? :P Feb 15 20:16:43 You could use transparent aluminium. (lab-grown-sapphire) But that'd be silly :) Feb 15 20:17:25 make it blue Feb 15 20:17:30 and sell it as ultimate bling Feb 15 20:17:45 buz: black... anodized black Feb 15 20:17:51 yeah Feb 15 20:17:52 like the Palm TX Feb 15 20:17:55 :) Feb 15 20:17:59 that's black alu Feb 15 20:18:07 black gold ehehehe Feb 15 20:18:19 and it does look kinky: http://www.digitaltechnews.com/news/images/palm_tx_handheld.jpg Feb 15 20:18:44 saphire plated screen Feb 15 20:18:50 now THAT would be something Feb 15 20:18:52 lol Feb 15 20:18:55 I've suggested that. Feb 15 20:19:01 With a SAW touchscreen. Feb 15 20:19:05 that'd be bad for the touchscreen... Feb 15 20:19:08 (more expensive though. Feb 15 20:19:12 saw? Feb 15 20:19:21 with multitouch :P Feb 15 20:19:21 SAW touchscreens use sound bounced around inside the glass. Feb 15 20:19:29 They can be multitouch. Feb 15 20:19:54 Actually - diamond plated glass isn't that expensive. Feb 15 20:20:01 It's sold as barcode scanner windows. Feb 15 20:20:16 For use dragging tins over all day. Feb 15 20:20:23 SpeedEvil: damasteel with the openmoko-logo as the pattern :) Feb 15 20:20:30 :) Feb 15 20:20:43 that'd be a work of art... Feb 15 20:20:43 SAW as in surface acoustic wave? Feb 15 20:20:47 nearly impossible Feb 15 20:20:54 koen: most likely Feb 15 20:21:14 koen: yes. Feb 15 20:21:32 It's used in touchscreens that have to be pretty robust. Feb 15 20:22:17 whois XorA|gone Feb 15 20:22:43 s/whois/\/whois/ :P Feb 15 20:22:50 * LuitvD likes regular expressions Feb 15 20:23:34 SpeedEvil: it can be used to make a chalkboard act like a touch-screen :) Feb 15 20:26:08 Well - the material needs to be carefully chosen to not absorb audio. Feb 15 20:27:04 The wiki is again slashdotted? Feb 15 20:27:19 :P Feb 15 20:27:50 not slashdotted I guess... Feb 15 20:27:57 but something with similar symptoms Feb 15 20:28:14 digg? Feb 15 20:28:44 ttp://news.google.co.uk/news?client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&channel=s&hl=en&q=neo1973&btnG=Google+Search&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wn Feb 15 20:28:46 beats me Feb 15 20:28:51 slashgear an hour ago Feb 15 20:29:19 and gizmodo :) Feb 15 20:29:24 http://www.slashgear.com/openmoko-and-fic-neo1973-updates-153926.php Feb 15 20:29:25 6 hours Feb 15 20:29:28 yeah Feb 15 20:29:31 looking at that now Feb 15 20:30:16 So it's slashgear'd. ;| Feb 15 20:31:25 bah, the white+orange device looks too plastic-ish Feb 15 20:31:47 On one of the sites: and next 'Next up, we have a very risque picture of Sports Illustrated bikini model Marisa Miller wearing nothing more than an iPod. Could Apple ask for a cooler bit of free advertising? I think not. ' Feb 15 20:31:54 We need someone to step up. ;0 Feb 15 20:32:41 :P Feb 15 20:32:58 the fic is bigger then an ipod... so ... it should be easyer :P Feb 15 20:34:23 TWO babes Feb 15 20:35:06 XD Feb 15 20:35:17 but please not paris f***** hilton Feb 15 20:35:28 i swear i wont buy it if she advertises it Feb 15 20:35:39 http://www.slashgear.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/02/__-15tif-16604.jpg Feb 15 20:35:48 i don't know.. good tech is very seductive Feb 15 20:35:48 'falling off a cliff, after being distracted by the shinyness of her new neo.' Feb 15 20:35:49 What are the things there from top to bottom? Feb 15 20:35:49 i bought a hiptop in spite of her Feb 15 20:35:53 buz: that's one more Neo for my if I'd get her to do it :) Feb 15 20:37:11 The big thingy is usb, right? Feb 15 20:37:12 GSM jack (I think, may be GPS) USB button, left speaker grill. Feb 15 20:37:46 you do three somes with yours? Feb 15 20:37:54 s/B b/B,b/ Feb 15 20:37:54 SpeedEvil meant: GSM jack (I think, may be GPS) USB,button, left speaker grill. Feb 15 20:38:25 Elrond: it's mini USB or something ... Feb 15 20:38:29 I would check the wiki to see if anyones corrected my assertion that it's GSM, but... Feb 15 20:38:35 A/B socket or something. Feb 15 20:38:39 It's standardish. Feb 15 20:38:51 yeah, it's on the back of my phone too... Feb 15 20:38:58 SpeedEvil - So the headset jack is on the other side? Feb 15 20:38:59 think it's for the GSM antenna... Feb 15 20:39:03 yes. Feb 15 20:39:31 the thing next to the USB isn't a jackplug ;) Feb 15 20:39:46 yes, jack on the other side. Feb 15 20:39:55 I've prolly got a copy of the page locally, hang on Feb 15 20:40:02 2.5mm or 3.5mm? Feb 15 20:40:30 What I still haven't gotten: According to the datasheet (and looking at kernel stuff), it seems, the CPU has two usb connections (host _and_ device). Which one is going outside? Feb 15 20:40:35 LuitvD - I think 2.5mm Feb 15 20:40:55 LuitvD - I think, someone complained about not-3.5mm ;o) Feb 15 20:41:14 Elrond: yeah, but someone mistyped 3.5mm here :P Feb 15 20:41:25 the host device combo is going outside Feb 15 20:41:26 not here... on some website Feb 15 20:41:26 LuitvD - Hmm. ;) Feb 15 20:41:29 i think Feb 15 20:41:41 Elrond: so I just wanted to be sure Feb 15 20:41:47 No - I don't. Feb 15 20:41:58 LuitvD - Okay, just ignore my answers better. Feb 15 20:42:02 Both host and device. Feb 15 20:42:08 It's switchable. Feb 15 20:42:10 yeah, both Feb 15 20:42:16 like the palm livedrive Feb 15 20:42:48 Ahh. I haven't seen any switching patches for the kernel though? Feb 15 20:44:31 Elrond: too bad there's no such thing as a selective /ignore :P Feb 15 20:44:43 http://www.m Feb 15 20:44:55 http://www.mauve.plus.com/apart.tar.bz2 Feb 15 20:45:03 Is a copy of the dissasembly page Feb 15 20:45:15 with my notes of what everything is - I think this is the current one on the wiki Feb 15 20:45:22 800k Feb 15 20:45:29 Don't /. it :) Feb 15 20:46:03 :P Feb 15 20:46:13 don't tell me not to :P Feb 15 21:02:31 wow, firefox really likes to crash today... :S Feb 15 21:02:46 Mine hasn't. Feb 15 21:02:54 which version? Feb 15 21:03:21 everything on this Fedora installation seems to be crashing... Feb 15 21:03:29 xmms, firefox, gaim...:S Feb 15 21:03:30 1.5 Feb 15 21:03:40 (not alltogether ofcourse) Feb 15 21:03:47 hmm, I'm using 2.0 Feb 15 21:03:58 (like the new functions of 2) Feb 15 21:05:00 Ok - indirect confirmation - it's a GSM jack on the side, not GPS. Feb 15 21:05:19 Harald went through my additions to the wiki, and diddn't nuke that bit, though he did a couple of other errors. Feb 15 21:05:29 that's ok, fedora is meant to be that Feb 15 21:07:17 I always do error Feb 15 21:07:24 it's a GPS jack on the side Feb 15 21:07:30 the GSM jack is behind the battery cover Feb 15 21:07:42 Oh, so the other way round? Feb 15 21:07:45 isn't it labeled 'GPS'? Feb 15 21:08:00 silkscreened on the pcb? Feb 15 21:08:00 please update the wiki Feb 15 21:08:09 koen: what is labelled GPS? Feb 15 21:08:18 we have three antenna sockets on the pcb Feb 15 21:08:21 two are for GPS, one for GSM Feb 15 21:08:27 GPS internal / external Feb 15 21:09:12 LaF0rge: http://wiki.openmoko.org/images/thumb/4/45/Gta01b_v2_debugport_closed.jpg/600px-Gta01b_v2_debugport_closed.jpg Feb 15 21:11:02 koen: there is no connector there Feb 15 21:11:07 LaF0rge: no troubles with EABI in userland, only uboot (and hence the kernel) are giving troubles Feb 15 21:11:13 koen: there are GPS_rxd/txd/cts/rts test pad Feb 15 21:11:21 ah, I see Feb 15 21:11:24 that's for the UART Feb 15 21:11:37 * LaF0rge has the original full-res EOS300D shot here ;) Feb 15 21:12:13 * koen hands LaF0rge a 100mm/2.8 macro lens to do some close ups Feb 15 21:12:26 :) Feb 15 21:12:35 isn't that debug port pic close enough? Feb 15 21:12:53 to show the port, yes Feb 15 21:13:04 are there any photos of a device with the screen actually turned on? Feb 15 21:13:12 a lot Feb 15 21:13:19 whereabouts? Feb 15 21:13:53 http://people.openmoko.org/laforge/photos// Feb 15 21:14:13 e.g. http://people.openmoko.org/laforge/photos/gta01bv2_omoko/img_5391.jpg Feb 15 21:14:18 omg, what did you do to that poor thing Feb 15 21:14:35 DAMN that resolution is awesome Feb 15 21:14:42 http://people.openmoko.org/laforge/photos/gta01bv2_omoko/img_5391.jpg Feb 15 21:14:43 sorry Feb 15 21:14:49 wrong window/channel Feb 15 21:14:51 :P Feb 15 21:16:21 http://people.openmoko.org/laforge/photos//GTA01v3_tuxboot_highres.jpg Feb 15 21:16:24 that one is even nicer Feb 15 21:16:27 to show the resolution Feb 15 21:17:55 okay, rephrase: are there any photos of the device, with the case on, and the screen on? :) Feb 15 21:18:04 lol Feb 15 21:18:16 cjb: mh, I don't think I've taken such pictures yet Feb 15 21:18:31 since it looks like any generic development board with the case off :) Feb 15 21:18:35 cjb: Sometimes I have real work ;). And apparently nobody else takes pictures so far Feb 15 21:18:56 cjb: will try to remember it if I'm taking pictures for a different purpose anyway Feb 15 21:19:21 thanks :) Feb 15 21:20:04 by the way, condolences on your setbacks. We've seen all too similar things happen at OLPC, including having to do all the culture shock work. Feb 15 21:20:23 mickey|dinner: Is http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/How_to_run_OpenMoko_Apps_on_PC intended to work with latest svn? Fails to find some gtk header files even if they are installed. Feb 15 21:20:41 Embedded companies often expect you can take a kernel from a year or two ago, hack it around, and ship like that. Feb 15 21:21:09 * stefan_schmidt likes to compile something until the slow mtn pull is done. Feb 15 21:21:51 cjb: only 2 years ago? You optimist Feb 15 21:23:26 LaF0rge - Can you read the console with only your normal eyes (like in the GTA01v3_tuxboot_highres.jpg pic) Feb 15 21:24:04 stefan_schmidt: Where does it break? Feb 15 21:24:48 alphaone: http://rafb.net/p/jmJ5bk50.html Feb 15 21:24:52 alphaone: hi, btw Feb 15 21:25:00 moko-alignment.h:22:30: error: gtk/gtkalignment.h: No such file or directory Feb 15 21:25:18 has anyone thought of transporting the material from the inofficial wiki ? Feb 15 21:25:25 cjb: So you have the same problem? Feb 15 21:25:49 no Feb 15 21:26:09 xkr47: Do it asap and delete the old one to keep the stuff at one place Feb 15 21:26:14 xkr47: did I hear you volunteering? Feb 15 21:26:27 cjb: you are lucky you picked a cpu where at least one `embedded company` cares enough to keep track with the current kernel Feb 15 21:27:26 koen, well I could help with the stuff I know what do about Feb 15 21:27:30 s/about/with/ Feb 15 21:27:31 xkr47 meant: koen, well I could help with the stuff I know what do with Feb 15 21:28:13 stefan_schmidt: I have a different error one file later. Feb 15 21:28:21 fluffs: it's true. it wasn Feb 15 21:28:32 In moko-application.c Feb 15 21:28:34 wasn't the CPU we had problems with, though :) Feb 15 21:29:14 stefan_schmidt: http://rafb.net/p/MvDPMI84.html Feb 15 21:29:34 alphaone: hmm, perhaps it is intended to break right now. We should wait for mickey|dinner, or fix it and send patches.:) Feb 15 21:29:48 This seems to be caused by the strange escaping in -DPKGDATADIR=\\\"/\\\" -DDATADIR=\\\"/\\\" -DG_LOG_DOMAIN=\\\"mokoui\\\" Feb 15 21:30:08 * xkr47 thinks the wiki is awesome Feb 15 21:30:18 * alphaone does so too Feb 15 21:30:49 * xkr47 looks at the hardware page and thinks he has never seen such detail before Feb 15 21:30:50 I can fix that error by replacing the defines with ='"/"' Feb 15 21:31:29 But I'm still looking for the place to change it in one of the makefile.am or whatever files... Feb 15 21:31:47 alphaone: its qmake. mickey|dinner pet. Feb 15 21:32:23 xkr: you should see our internal wiki ;) Feb 15 21:32:27 LaF0rge: About antenna connectors. The two GPS connectors (internal and external) are next to each other, and the GSM one is not accessible without taking the original antenna off? Feb 15 21:32:41 Can I use Python on openmoko? Feb 15 21:32:47 yeah, spare time starts :) Feb 15 21:32:50 speed: no, the GSM is accessible as soon as you remove the back cover Feb 15 21:32:59 the internal antenna doesn't need aconnector Feb 15 21:33:03 LaF0rge, :) Feb 15 21:33:29 LaF0rge, do you have another such page for the calypso ?-) Feb 15 21:33:47 zecke: Hi Feb 15 21:33:47 xkr: no, but I have a couple of hundred pages printed paper on it Feb 15 21:34:22 xkr: and a calypso devel board. if only i had time to play with it... Feb 15 21:35:01 LaF0rge: Ah - right, misunderstood the geometry. Adding to wiki. Feb 15 21:35:11 LaF0rge, you mean there are unused features in the calypso currently or..? Feb 15 21:35:13 speed: thanks Feb 15 21:36:06 xkr: yes, there's a lot of stuff unused in there, but we'll never going to be able to use them. that chip is bascially a full feature phone chip, it contains its own LCD controller, keypad matrix interface, etc. Feb 15 21:36:17 :O Feb 15 21:36:39 hi Feb 15 21:36:40 so is it in use in as full capacity as it will ever be ? Feb 15 21:36:42 * LuitvD is off for some rest Feb 15 21:36:50 calypso board? Feb 15 21:36:50 are there any way to sync a nokia 9300 with evolution ? Feb 15 21:37:13 fluffs: the gsm chip Feb 15 21:37:17 ah Feb 15 21:37:33 LaF0rge, sorry forgot to prefix Feb 15 21:38:30 xkr: yeah. it's really hard even for us to get firmware changes done Feb 15 21:38:34 LaF0rge: is there a seperate USB port on the devel plug, or is it just wired to the existing one? Feb 15 21:38:46 xkr: currently waiting for a firmware update just because of some minor sound config issue Feb 15 21:38:56 LaF0rge, understandable.. well I guess you're happy with what it does anyway :) Feb 15 21:39:10 xkr: it sucks if you don't have the source. I even know which bit in whcih register to set (due to hw docs). Feb 15 21:40:27 LaF0rge, any page on what hardware you have evaluated ? Feb 15 21:40:29 speed: there's no usb on the debug connector Feb 15 21:40:35 K. Feb 15 21:40:37 speed: the FPC can't transport enough power Feb 15 21:40:40 Is there a pinout? Feb 15 21:41:11 speed: it will be public. but the current pinout is changing from v3 -> v4 (debug board will be compatible) Feb 15 21:41:34 so there's no point in publicizing the current one, if the lines will not be there ;) Feb 15 21:42:07 Ok. I'm just trying to work out possibilities for [[expansion back]] - user-plug-in-able hardware upgrades. Feb 15 21:42:12 LaF0rge: But p0 phone is v3 or is that old info on the wiki? Feb 15 21:43:30 alpha: no, p0 phone is v3. they're already produced, just waiting for the bluetooth module Feb 15 21:44:36 LaF0rge: Ah okay. Do you happen to know what color the p0 phones will be? Feb 15 21:44:57 Not that that matters for a devphone, but... :-) Feb 15 21:45:09 wb mickeyl Feb 15 21:45:48 * xkr47 serves LaF0rge and mickeyl some late dinner Feb 15 21:45:59 * fluffs had pie and salad earlier Feb 15 21:46:12 * LaF0rge didn't really have that much to eat yet today Feb 15 21:46:21 Okay, now I'm stuck at compiling openmoko-contacts Feb 15 21:46:23 LaF0rge, off you go! :) Feb 15 21:46:42 xkr: too late now anyway, and there are no good delivery places here :( Feb 15 21:46:49 what do one need to do to get hands on a developer version when they are out? Feb 15 21:46:56 hey mickeyl Feb 15 21:46:58 of Neo that is Feb 15 21:47:12 LaF0rge, sounds familiar :/ well hopefully you got something to eat.. :P Feb 15 21:47:17 mickeyl: http://www.flickr.com/photos/koenkooi/391406865/ Feb 15 21:47:22 kimuSan^: Just order one Feb 15 21:47:25 * fluffs wonders wtf linus isn't pulling rmk's git tree Feb 15 21:48:00 stefan_schmidt: ahhh thought that there was no possibility to order one before it is available in the final version Feb 15 21:48:11 can I order it already ? Feb 15 21:48:52 kimuSan^: dev versions can be order late march Feb 15 21:48:54 kimu: nope. but I think Sean is working on a pre-order site Feb 15 21:48:56 koen: neat! The wheel and the buttons will change soon though Feb 15 21:49:12 stefan_schmidt: you need qmake from qt4 Feb 15 21:49:20 stefan_schmidt: but really, use autotools, that's supported. Feb 15 21:49:20 LaF0rge: earlier a [[People interested in preorder]] page was mentioned. Bad idea? Feb 15 21:49:21 * LaF0rge builds linux-gta01-2.6.20-200702152322 Feb 15 21:49:35 mickeyl: I assumed the wheel was, well... a wheel Feb 15 21:49:41 speed: there's no point in that page anyway. and it raises data protection issues ;) Feb 15 21:49:53 LaF0rge: great. Feb 15 21:49:54 mickeyl: bit I found it's just 2 buttons Feb 15 21:50:22 Not really. Just notes saying 'I'm interested in 2' from logged in users. Feb 15 21:50:29 just need to get my boss to allow me to order a couple of them :-) Feb 15 21:50:30 No paypal :) Feb 15 21:50:33 koen: the wheel wheel be (kidding) Feb 15 21:50:34 will be Feb 15 21:50:39 mickeyl: actually 3 buttons: up, down, crash Feb 15 21:50:46 *sigh* Feb 15 21:50:51 yeah, shanghai still didn't fix the crash Feb 15 21:50:59 i can only do so much... Feb 15 21:51:07 it's going to be a wheel eventually Feb 15 21:51:16 like a GtkRange Feb 15 21:51:21 crash > OOM + crash Feb 15 21:51:22 emitting absolute and relative modes Feb 15 21:51:33 so it's a net improvement Feb 15 21:52:12 was the bluetooth chip delayed or? Feb 15 21:52:44 mickeyl: ok, i try autotools Feb 15 21:53:20 *nod* Feb 15 21:53:21 mickeyl: apart from panel-demo I can build task-openmoko without the FIC bbcollection Feb 15 21:53:42 thanks for the bug reports, koen. i'll find may way through 'em in the next 2h Feb 15 21:53:45 bbiab Feb 15 21:54:13 * koen is trying to keep his reputation as fastest cross-compiler in the west Feb 15 21:54:32 koen: hehe, you manage to keep it Feb 15 21:58:08 mickeyl: http://svnweb.openmoko.org/trunk/?rev=996&view=rev is in OE now Feb 15 22:02:45 updating 2.6.17 => 2.6.20 shouldn't have been too bad Feb 15 22:02:48 re Feb 15 22:03:11 fluffs: mostly genirq related breakage Feb 15 22:03:15 I'd guess Feb 15 22:03:24 hmm.. the lcd manufacturer says the mass production of the LCD used in neo started/starts Q1/07 Feb 15 22:03:25 fluffs: no, was surprisingly easy. most time was spent hunting the framebuffer bug and the asoc dma alloc bug Feb 15 22:03:26 are there release news?? Feb 15 22:03:28 koen: workqueue Feb 15 22:03:42 and of course workqueue :) Feb 15 22:03:52 how could I forget the endless threads on LAK about it Feb 15 22:04:12 LaF0rge: ah, yes, dma api changed slightly, and the fb bug is, iirc found Feb 15 22:04:47 LaF0rge: lrg said he's aiming for neo-alsa in 2.6.22 Feb 15 22:05:01 koen: I'm aiming for ARCH_GTA01 in 2.6.22 ;) Feb 15 22:05:06 yeah, he said that to me too... I'd like to migrate our boards to ASOC Feb 15 22:05:16 LaF0rge: ARCH_ ? Feb 15 22:05:21 MACH_ please Feb 15 22:05:22 !bot Feb 15 22:05:37 asoc should be in .21 Feb 15 22:06:01 yeah, might take a while to get everything else in Feb 15 22:06:03 fluffs: MACH, sorry ;) Feb 15 22:06:16 fluffs: I would love to rename it to NEO1973, but it's already in mach-ids for serveral months Feb 15 22:06:30 LaF0rge: i'll ask rmk nicely Feb 15 22:06:32 how did it end with the touchscreen? was it single or multi input? Feb 15 22:06:47 kimuSan^: single Feb 15 22:06:48 kimuSan^: single Feb 15 22:06:55 ok Feb 15 22:07:55 could be nice with multiple though :-) have been playing around with the new xinput but it is just not as fun with 2 mice instead of using two fingers Feb 15 22:08:21 I just realise I don't have any boards using uboot Feb 15 22:08:24 uboot rocks Feb 15 22:08:38 at least together with a Welte wizard ;) Feb 15 22:08:41 mickeyl: look at its buildsystem and dare to say it again Feb 15 22:09:25 mickeyl: you can't 'configure' it, since 'configure' will start building uboot when all I need is the mkimage tool Feb 15 22:09:44 * koen spent a large part of this morning agonizing over that Feb 15 22:10:26 well, uboot is really a huge pile of chunks of code from various sources, hacked together Feb 15 22:10:43 * fluffs fires a make for this new patch Feb 15 22:10:49 -j5 is quite nice and fast Feb 15 22:11:32 * LaF0rge waits for bitbake reparse Feb 15 22:11:37 * fluffs just purchased an iPAQ rx1950 Feb 15 22:11:51 I think I need a chastity belt for my wallet Feb 15 22:11:56 lol Feb 15 22:11:59 fluffs: expanding your s3c collection? Feb 15 22:12:02 fluffs: well, you'll get the neo for free ;) Feb 15 22:12:02 yeah Feb 15 22:12:04 hand it to me ill take care of it for you Feb 15 22:12:25 which is great Feb 15 22:12:41 fluffs: my girlfriend has me on a 'grades to toys' programs Feb 15 22:12:57 fluffs: I have to pass an exam each time I want to buy something :) Feb 15 22:13:06 just PASS? Feb 15 22:13:37 ahh I want a program like that :-) Feb 15 22:14:21 well, of course stuff like the EFIKA and moko dev programs get a bit in the way :) Feb 15 22:14:38 My girlfriend just thinks im mad every time I bring home some new gadgets. fortunately the company pays for most of them, else she probably like it a bit Feb 15 22:15:48 kimuSan^: offer me a neo1973 then Feb 15 22:15:54 anyone know of anyone inteh dev community who might be interested in developiung an AccesGrid client for OpenMoko? Feb 15 22:16:14 presuming that we can eventually get 802.11 put into a second gen. unit? Feb 15 22:17:20 rodgers: just ask on the community list Feb 15 22:17:35 ah good suggestion -- guess i can find that on the mail list web site Feb 15 22:17:40 loufoque: pays them for me. not you :-) Feb 15 22:17:40 rodgers: we're betting on one supplier. if everything wokrs, phase2 can have it Feb 15 22:17:47 right, this may be the first post to openmoko-kernel Feb 15 22:18:09 LaF0rge: phase2 or v2? Feb 15 22:18:24 i wish there were some photos of a neo1973 in someones hand Feb 15 22:18:30 loufoque: need to convince them tomorrow that I need a neo to play around with....maybe I should add a BC5FM to it such that we can get FM radio into it :-) Feb 15 22:18:30 so yur optimisitc about 802.11 then? Feb 15 22:18:31 so i can get some ideo of how big it is Feb 15 22:18:40 parag0n: hands vary. Feb 15 22:18:41 kimuSan^: tell them you need two of those Feb 15 22:18:44 fluffs - I have the first post to -kernel ;o) Feb 15 22:18:52 Elrond: bah! humbug Feb 15 22:18:53 Mobile phone companys seem to have a list of people with very large hands. Feb 15 22:19:01 For modelling purposes. Feb 15 22:19:18 morning Feb 15 22:19:19 a career id never thought of... Feb 15 22:19:20 Print out the pictures at teh right scale. Feb 15 22:19:34 laminate on a bit of 10mm plastercine or something. Feb 15 22:19:39 OK then, the great leveller, a coke can :P Feb 15 22:20:29 also, where the hell does the stylus fit Feb 15 22:20:46 what stylus???? lol Feb 15 22:20:47 hi Feb 15 22:20:50 bah, posted from wrong account Feb 15 22:20:58 can someone approve my post to openmoko-kernel please Feb 15 22:21:29 mh, s3c2410_udc seems to sometimes loose RESET interrupts Feb 15 22:21:36 parag0n: look at http://www.sizeasy.com/page/comp/153 Feb 15 22:21:38 fluffs: will do Feb 15 22:21:44 compare it to whatever. Feb 15 22:22:42 very clever site SpeedEvil Feb 15 22:23:02 so the OpenMoko is quite a bit larger than the iPhone, Im surprised somehow Feb 15 22:23:11 Well... Feb 15 22:23:19 The shapes are rather different. Feb 15 22:23:35 the iPhone is quite big for a mobile phone. Feb 15 22:23:36 LaF0rge: the drive was trying to report an error and going splat in an nasty way... you may need to tweak the platform data to fix the root cause Feb 15 22:23:41 true - but the iPhone calso cintains a camera... Feb 15 22:23:50 not compared to my Treop 650 lol Feb 15 22:23:52 COMPATIBLE_HOST = "arm.*-linux" Feb 15 22:23:52 COMPATIBLE_MACHINE = 'fic-gta01' Feb 15 22:24:22 If the neo was 6mm shorter, it'd fit entirely inside a coke can. Feb 15 22:24:27 LaF0rge: could you remove that COMPATIBLE_HOST? It breaks eabi and is superfluous combined with COMPATIBLE_MACHINE Feb 15 22:24:33 Which of course raises the question... Feb 15 22:24:39 but yur right SpeedEvil, the roudned ends of the OpenMoko make the enclosing box look larger than it really is... Feb 15 22:24:39 rodgers: treo's are designed for mutants :-) Feb 15 22:24:52 koen: where is that? mickey is the OE guy ;) Feb 15 22:25:03 LaF0rge: in the kernel recipes Feb 15 22:25:13 i proudly proclaim myslef a mutant ;) Feb 15 22:25:20 koen: just unconditionally remove it ? Feb 15 22:25:22 mickeyl: why do all the moko howto's set BUILD_ARCH manually? Feb 15 22:25:25 LaF0rge: yes Feb 15 22:25:36 because all buildhosts were using x86_64 Feb 15 22:25:37 LaF0rge: unless you has a MIPS neo1973 on your desk ;) Feb 15 22:25:38 :D Feb 15 22:26:40 tho i remain a mutant who woudl like to get rid fo the stupid thumb-board Feb 15 22:27:34 mickeyl: could you replace 'arm-linux-' in the moko recipes with '${TARGET_PREFIX}'? Feb 15 22:27:41 gotta dash, bye all Feb 15 22:28:00 koen: in kernel? Feb 15 22:28:07 * kimuSan^ just installed spb mobile shell on his HTC Trinity. their dialpad is actually nice to use on a touchscreen using fingers only Feb 15 22:28:20 mickeyl: the kernel needs arm-linux-objcopy -> ${OBJCOPY} Feb 15 22:29:30 oh yes Feb 15 22:29:47 I'll fix it in OE tomorrow Feb 15 22:29:53 thanks. I'll just sync. then Feb 15 22:30:00 fluffs - hihi: X-Disclaimer: I speak for me, myself, and the other one of me. Feb 15 22:30:02 * mickeyl browsing through bugzilla atm Feb 15 22:34:13 does the neo have a stylus or not? i see lots of mentions of stylus only apps on the wiki Feb 15 22:34:44 stylus yes, compartment, no Feb 15 22:35:11 hmm :/ Feb 15 22:35:20 then you just need a thumb strap-on stylus Feb 15 22:35:21 right, fixed SMDK2440 display as well Feb 15 22:35:39 mickeyl will phase2 have a compartment? Feb 15 22:35:49 or i could cultivate my thumb nail into a spike Feb 15 22:35:54 i doubt that there will be case modifications Feb 15 22:36:06 but don't quote me on that Feb 15 22:36:46 otherwise i'll lose my stylus after 2 days ;) Feb 15 22:36:56 are there any great ideas behind the bulky round look? or is it just the "to be different" factor? Feb 15 22:37:32 *shrug* that's a question for the case designer Feb 15 22:37:48 case designers are a little special... like case modders Feb 15 22:37:53 * kimuSan^ dont know who that is.. Feb 15 22:38:00 * mickeyl doesn't know either Feb 15 22:38:10 some guys in .tw Feb 15 22:38:26 mickeyl: ahh explains it :-) Feb 15 22:38:31 hehe Feb 15 22:39:40 mickeyl: at what time do you become pingable tomorrow? Feb 15 22:40:11 around 14 to 18 Feb 15 22:40:14 CET Feb 15 22:40:19 * koen needs to schedule some openmoko integration work in between courses and matlab Feb 15 22:40:33 probably not earlier since I'm spending half of the day for thesis preparation Feb 15 22:40:39 mmh need some help here... i switched off my machine here yesterday - and now i wanted to resume the bitbaking - but bitbake complains about a missing cache... which directory should i set CACHE to? tmp/cache/fic-gta01 doesn't work... Feb 15 22:40:47 * fluffs wants to integrate clue-stick into whoever failed to test the additions into the fb driver Feb 15 22:41:04 mickeyl: I'll be at the uni before lunch :) Feb 15 22:41:28 oops :) Feb 15 22:41:56 fluffs: yah, that's kind of odd isn't it? one would expect these kind of changes to be tested beforehand :/ Feb 15 22:42:27 ok, i'm not perfect, but i generally get it right Feb 15 22:42:36 that how it normally goes with quickfixes :-) Feb 15 22:42:36 i'm suprised that bug hasn't been fixed earlier Feb 15 22:42:38 or fix it after finding out Feb 15 22:43:40 Yay! Feb 15 22:43:44 nite all Feb 15 22:43:53 * alphaone has xchat in openmoko theme :-) Feb 15 22:43:57 night Feb 15 22:43:57 * koen agrees with kimuSan^ Feb 15 22:44:03 'night all Feb 15 22:45:10 hmm, 9 patches outstanding Feb 15 22:45:33 mickeyl comes to fosdem as "dr. mickeyl" :) Feb 15 22:45:52 :) Feb 15 22:45:54 hopefully Feb 15 22:45:57 if i pass the defense Feb 15 22:45:58 ... Feb 15 22:46:18 mickeyl: that would be good for the beer event... Feb 15 22:46:29 no kidding. that will be just one day after the defense :D Feb 15 22:46:40 i'm going to be blasted ;) Feb 15 22:46:48 mickeyl: thesis is about what? Feb 15 22:46:51 mickeyl: I now.... so you can clear your mem Feb 15 22:47:08 kimuSan^: Component-based adaptive Middleware for mobile distributed systems Feb 15 22:47:09 the defense is open I assume? :) Feb 15 22:47:14 greentux: yeah Feb 15 22:47:37 mickeyl: nice Feb 15 22:47:54 indeed. took me 5 years Feb 15 22:48:02 but it was fun time Feb 15 22:48:24 3 of them were probably spent w/ open source Feb 15 22:48:27 but don't tell anyone Feb 15 22:48:28 :D Feb 15 22:48:59 heh Feb 15 22:49:15 PhD or ? Feb 15 22:49:23 yep Feb 15 22:49:25 ok Feb 15 22:49:35 actually I get Feb 15 22:49:39 Dr. phil. nat. Feb 15 22:49:44 but it's comparable Feb 15 22:49:54 * kimuSan^ was offered to do a PhD but wanted to work instead. Feb 15 22:54:20 mickeyl: Is there a way to let only one application use a different gtk theme? Feb 15 22:54:37 heh, i can feel your pain Feb 15 22:54:41 i'm afraid not Feb 15 22:54:46 okay Feb 15 22:54:50 but i didn't look that hard to find a solution Feb 15 22:55:00 our gtkrc looks odd on a lot of desktop programs :) Feb 15 22:55:18 I really do like the theme for my notebook, too Feb 15 22:55:35 needs some fixes for the small pixmaps Feb 15 22:55:40 but other than that it looks cool Feb 15 22:55:52 exactly Feb 15 22:56:07 So I'll have matching themes :-) Feb 15 22:56:32 * XorA|gone sees apt-get openmoko-desktop coming soon Feb 15 22:56:42 yay :-) Feb 15 22:57:17 If you ignore the scrollbars sylpheed claws looks real slick now :-) Feb 15 22:57:41 so where can we get an openmoko phone? Feb 15 22:57:52 ag: buy in a month Feb 15 22:57:57 ag $350 Feb 15 22:58:08 excellent! ;) Feb 15 22:58:24 It won't be finished by then. Feb 15 22:58:24 worldwide ? Feb 15 22:58:28 yes Feb 15 22:58:32 n1 Feb 15 22:58:35 It will be a sort-of-usable phone. Feb 15 22:58:43 Anyone can purchasse it. Feb 15 22:58:52 i would do german support if needed Feb 15 22:59:05 Basic functionality will be there, but more may vary. Feb 15 22:59:17 SpeedEvil: and how long to wait to get the final version? Feb 15 22:59:25 gps and touchscreen are my favs Feb 15 22:59:25 September. Feb 15 22:59:39 Though it won't really be 'final' in the usual phone sense. Feb 15 22:59:48 As new apps and upgrades will carry on rolling. Feb 15 22:59:53 open-source is my fav ... Feb 15 22:59:58 gg Feb 15 23:00:38 The V2 hardware - which may be what ships in September may or may not have wifi/camera. The ones in a month won't. Feb 15 23:00:44 there will be some rev. if the first series is sold Feb 15 23:01:01 please don't confuse Feb 15 23:01:07 v2 is _not_ what ships in September Feb 15 23:01:28 It's not - I misinterpreted something LaForge said earlier. Feb 15 23:01:30 v2 is totally different hardware which will be _announced_ in September Feb 15 23:01:33 Ah. Feb 15 23:01:48 not? that was of course. Feb 15 23:01:53 Thanks. Feb 15 23:02:02 other design too? Feb 15 23:02:12 A new version, with more goodies. Feb 15 23:02:17 even though some apps will need a stylus, i hope the basic phone apps dont... making a phonecall, sending a text message... Feb 15 23:02:18 Which may or may not include camera/wifi. Feb 15 23:03:12 parag0n: there are many input methods. Some will work with fingers. Feb 15 23:03:25 Some may be faster or more accurate with a stylus. Feb 15 23:03:32 SpeedEvil: i suppose v2 will get 3G HDSPA, won't it? Feb 15 23:03:39 Well... Feb 15 23:03:45 I don't want HDSPA. Feb 15 23:03:52 As it would be utterly wasted for me. Feb 15 23:03:56 I'd want UTMS. Feb 15 23:04:04 3G. Feb 15 23:04:07 yeah. Feb 15 23:04:09 no details known Feb 15 23:04:11 gsm Feb 15 23:04:41 GSM is the current phone - which is essentially worldwide, apart from some areas in the US. Feb 15 23:04:55 well, that and japan Feb 15 23:05:25 but yeah, gsm covers a lot of the world so smart move for the first ed Feb 15 23:05:42 some areas in the US and japan are not my places ;) Feb 15 23:05:46 (one would expect nothing less) Feb 15 23:06:05 As I understand it for faster than GSM, it gets complex. There isn't a worldwide standard. And the USA goes on its own. Feb 15 23:06:22 SpeedEvil, yeah, that's a shame Feb 15 23:06:26 Not to mention there are some nasty license conditions. Feb 15 23:06:44 It may be that in 6 months time, chipsets will have moved on. Feb 15 23:06:58 s/chipsets/modules/ Feb 15 23:07:10 SpeedEvil meant: It may be that in 6 months time, modules will have moved on. Feb 15 23:07:35 * mjr will be quite content with gsm/gprs for now tho, but would hope that when neo goes 3g, utms would at least be one of the options. We'll see. Feb 15 23:07:47 right, time for me to go and get some sleep Feb 15 23:07:53 i'm pretty sure it will feature umts Feb 15 23:07:53 g'night ben Feb 15 23:07:57 Night. Feb 15 23:09:37 goodnight people Feb 15 23:10:30 mickeyl, good for us europeans if so; is that used in asia where fic lives (you know, aside from Japan)? Feb 15 23:10:40 night fluffs Feb 15 23:10:44 hmm umts in asia? Feb 15 23:10:47 no idea offhand Feb 15 23:10:49 yes Feb 15 23:11:11 Singapore and Hong Kong at least, I've experienced personally. Feb 15 23:11:18 Australia too :-) Feb 15 23:11:25 :) Feb 15 23:12:38 seemant: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-Speed_Uplink_Packet_Access Feb 15 23:12:39 http://linuxdevices.com/news/NS2657814070.html Feb 15 23:12:59 oops. sorry seemant, completion got me. Feb 15 23:13:31 UMTS? dont you mean UTMS? Feb 15 23:14:27 I checked, and apparently not Feb 15 23:14:31 umts Feb 15 23:14:58 Please assume that any acronyms from me may swap any adjacent letters. Feb 15 23:15:01 Psi_: it's UMTS... Feb 15 23:15:03 :) Feb 15 23:15:05 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Mobile_Telecommunications_System Feb 15 23:15:06 night all Feb 15 23:16:01 n8 stefan_schmidt Feb 15 23:20:08 night Feb 15 23:29:50 * rwhitby starts work on the MokoMasterMakefile Feb 15 23:30:13 (the openmoko version of www.nslu2-linux.org/Makefile) Feb 15 23:30:50 that looks like it'lll take a while Feb 15 23:31:16 g'night Feb 15 23:31:20 parag0n: I just encode in a Makefile all the manual steps that everyone is doing right now to set up their build environments. Feb 15 23:31:27 (as I do it) Feb 15 23:31:44 awesome Feb 15 23:31:52 night mickey|zzZZzz Feb 15 23:31:57 is there an emulated moko environment then? Feb 15 23:32:12 yes Feb 15 23:32:15 i'll post more details tomorrow Feb 15 23:32:18 qemu Feb 15 23:32:21 * mickey|zzZZzz runs Feb 15 23:36:21 i can't get bitbake to resume building devel-image :( it complains about missing cache... which directory needs it in CACHE? Feb 15 23:36:50 hmm, i thought qemu emulated an x86 machine Feb 15 23:38:02 it does Feb 15 23:38:27 so it can do ARM as well? Feb 15 23:38:58 it does Feb 15 23:39:10 neat Feb 15 23:39:21 aaanyway, bedtime Feb 15 23:39:27 lectures tomorrow :/ Feb 16 00:00:30 *wait* Feb 16 00:03:35 qemu does pretty many archs Feb 16 00:03:50 but seems parag0n wasn't here to see it :] Feb 16 00:04:13 he was also not able to look at the web page or other documentation Feb 16 00:06:10 mh did somebody succeed in running the devel-image with qemu? Feb 16 00:06:39 it fires up here but doesn't do anything but consuming cycles Feb 16 00:08:59 any north americans here? do we know if Cingular or T-Mobile are going to allow these on their network? Feb 16 00:09:17 devel-image ? Feb 16 00:09:26 DukeOfURL: how would they not allow them? Feb 16 00:09:36 here it works with live-iso Feb 16 00:09:42 live-iso? of what? Feb 16 00:09:52 because the serial number identifies the phone Feb 16 00:09:53 i talk about running the openmoko build Feb 16 00:10:01 phps zenwalk Feb 16 00:10:07 DukeOfURL: they don't discriminate Feb 16 00:10:15 They _could_ ban the phones by IMEI, technically... Feb 16 00:10:24 phones with IMEIs of all 0s work on tmo Feb 16 00:10:26 that's it! IMEI Feb 16 00:10:27 ahh openmoko runs on java Feb 16 00:10:27 can't see much reason for them to, but could Feb 16 00:10:48 they COULD but I am sure it's not worth the efffort Feb 16 00:11:06 sixfeet: on java? it doesn't "run on java"... Feb 16 00:11:31 the other way around maybe ;) Feb 16 00:11:32 the client sw does Feb 16 00:11:50 what are you talking about? Feb 16 00:12:07 but i may not understand u right ;) Feb 16 00:12:11 rep, yeah, for javame it was promising to see that sun.com guy post his interest Feb 16 00:12:25 (ref. the other way around) Feb 16 00:12:48 sixfeet: all apps of open moko will be linux-binary - gui runs on the xorg-server with gtk+ Feb 16 00:13:19 i could explain better in german *g* .. but ur right Feb 16 00:13:25 dann sags auf deutsch Feb 16 00:13:31 ahh gut Feb 16 00:13:35 Well, at least initially. I bet python bindings are just a matter of time ;P Feb 16 00:13:48 hatte die sw mit java-bins testweise laufen Feb 16 00:13:55 jeah python bindings will be perfect... Feb 16 00:14:06 welche sw? Feb 16 00:15:08 die von openmoko ..auf der seite ..wollte mal die client-connect testen Feb 16 00:15:33 und das entwickler tool soweit ich gesehen habe Feb 16 00:15:41 aber nur kurz versucht Feb 16 00:15:51 mmh also keine ahnung welche software du meinst Feb 16 00:16:03 ich seh nirgendwo ne javasoftware bisher die was mit openmoko zu tun hat :) Feb 16 00:16:13 sry hab gerade keine links rechner heute neu inst. Feb 16 00:16:34 naja egal erstmal abwarten Feb 16 00:16:46 werde die mal wieder suchen Feb 16 00:17:00 dauert ja eh noch ne weile bis die hw raus ist Feb 16 00:17:29 re Feb 16 00:19:04 mmh i maybe misunderstand the usage of qemu... would the devel-image ext2 file suite as parameter to the qemu -initrd option? Feb 16 00:29:34 anybody else get errors compiling examples/openmoko-styles-demo-simple? "stray '\' in program" Feb 16 00:31:38 * rwhitby run "make openmoko-devel-image" with the MokoMakefile Feb 16 00:34:27 nevermind, if I ./autogen.sh within that directory make then works Feb 16 00:34:44 I was running make from two levels up when I got that error Feb 16 00:40:04 MokoMakefile: http://www.rwhitby.net/files/openmoko/Makefile Feb 16 00:40:09 (version 0.1) Feb 16 00:42:34 Hmm - don't try that yet, I haven't got the bitbake download in there yet. Feb 16 00:44:40 rwhitby: are you working on replacing/improving their current make system? Feb 16 00:45:51 he's simplifying the creation of a development environment for us here =) Feb 16 00:46:10 cool Feb 16 00:46:16 yeah, it's a bit convoluted atm Feb 16 00:47:35 gabaug: all I am doing is codifying http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Building_OpenMoko_from_scratch - nothing more. Feb 16 00:47:53 eventually, you will be able to: Feb 16 00:48:15 wget http://www.rwhitby.net/files/openmoko/Makefile ; make openmoko-devel-image Feb 16 00:49:14 rwhitby: nice. is the devel-image just for loading/running on a neo? Feb 16 00:49:39 rwhitby: do you know if openmoko builds with newest revision of OE? or just the one mentioned in wiki? Feb 16 00:51:59 gabaug: let's see what it produces, and how that can be used. Feb 16 00:52:23 rep: I've been advised to not change any revs if you want repeatability. Feb 16 00:52:43 openmoko use matchbox for its WM? Feb 16 01:00:17 gabaug: Yes Feb 16 01:01:54 night all Feb 16 01:02:45 damn i start to believe this bitbake app does not like me... Feb 16 01:04:20 OK, http://www.rwhitby.net/files/openmoko/Makefile now is able to start a build from scratch in a completely empty /home/moko directory Feb 16 01:12:42 * rwhitby adds a license to the MokoMakefile, ready for public release. Feb 16 01:59:10 * rwhitby does a final test of MokoMakefile before announcing it to the devel list. Feb 16 02:06:31 openmoko site says to contribute applications to openmoko you need to have experience in writing applications for wmbedded linux Feb 16 02:07:08 is there a way by which someone can contribute without having experience in writing embedded apps for linux Feb 16 02:07:56 empty_mind: sure, lots of ways Feb 16 02:08:12 gabaug, like ? Feb 16 02:08:15 translating, documenting, art/sounds Feb 16 02:08:34 if you have any programming experience you can certainly give programming for it a shot :) Feb 16 02:08:52 gabaug, i am new to embedded world have close to 9yrs of experience in coding Feb 16 02:09:03 gabaug, worked on couple of OSS too Feb 16 02:09:09 empty_mind: you need at least 10 yrs experience Feb 16 02:09:17 heh Feb 16 02:09:19 gabaug, hehe Feb 16 02:09:38 empty_mind: I'm sure you'll be a useful contributor. Feb 16 02:10:20 i only need a pointer to start with. It has been 3 yrs since i wrote something for telecom sector Feb 16 02:10:40 used to work for a telecom company in circa 2003-2004 Feb 16 02:15:02 rwhitby, thanks for the makefile Feb 16 02:15:15 jh|home: does it work for you? Feb 16 02:15:30 (I'm looking for early feedback) Feb 16 02:15:43 rwhitby, so far! munching on the bitbake files as we type Feb 16 02:15:54 sweet. how painless was it? Feb 16 02:16:23 oh wow there are loads of things i can contribute; like editors, office suit and what more python on openmok or a http server for openmoko Feb 16 02:16:27 tnxs guys Feb 16 02:16:32 piece of cake. for some reason last night i couldn't get my manual install of everything to work (bb complained about my bbpath i think) Feb 16 02:16:42 but with your makefile, works great Feb 16 02:16:59 can I use that as a testimonial? Feb 16 02:17:17 hah, you bet :) Feb 16 02:22:40 sent. thx. Feb 16 02:23:46 guys is there a simulator for openmoko ? I mena how do i start trying out applications for openmoko Feb 16 02:26:27 jh|home: let me know if you have any problems with the makefile Feb 16 02:27:34 rwhitby, ok... i'm compiling now, so it seems to be doing well Feb 16 02:29:25 * rwhitby announces MokoMakefile on the openmoko-devel list ... Feb 16 02:34:54 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/MokoMakefile Feb 16 02:37:47 rwhitby, nice testimonial under mokomakefile Feb 16 02:38:05 :-) Feb 16 02:38:15 Now to link it to the front page Feb 16 02:40:32 interesting, still no /. and only 3 digit digg is not to source (pasted this link here yesterday) http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/smartphones/first-look-the-antiiphone-openmokos-neo1973-236841.php Feb 16 02:41:01 refuses to do search quite often: http://www.digg.com/search?s=moko&submit=Search§ion=news&type=both&area=all&age=7&sort=new Feb 16 02:42:52 aloril - i have been finding that too... Feb 16 02:43:53 most diggs (13) for relevant links goes to: http://www.openmoko.org/ Feb 16 02:44:21 make that 14 :P Feb 16 02:44:28 hehe Feb 16 02:45:47 big props to whoever did all the new stuff at openmoko.org - its great, and looks super pro. Feb 16 02:45:56 * rwhitby updates http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Main_Page to point to MokoMakefile Feb 16 02:46:49 thats the second most digged at 12 (so duplicate ;-) Feb 16 02:54:51 some pics of Neo1973 (seem more recent than wiki): http://www.slashgear.com/openmoko-and-fic-neo1973-updates-153926.php Feb 16 02:56:06 I don't think those are pics, but renderings. Feb 16 02:56:14 * rwhitby having completed the PR work for MokoMakefile by blogging it, goes to lunch. Feb 16 02:56:56 :) Feb 16 02:57:39 The Neo1973 sorta resembles that Sony competitor to the NOkia 770. **** ENDING LOGGING AT Fri Feb 16 02:59:57 2007