**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Feb 27 02:59:56 2007 Feb 27 03:12:39 aloril, what are you doing? Feb 27 03:13:42 did minor bug fix and minor feature addition Feb 27 03:14:04 to...? I'm a fairly new lurker to the chan Feb 27 03:14:04 Lo-Down: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ Feb 27 03:14:50 well.. it was related to above autotrigger (which might or might not be appropriate ;-) Feb 27 03:15:01 haha Feb 27 03:15:09 Lo-Down: anyway, welcome here, not seen you talk earlier here Feb 27 03:15:17 i was like...ummm... Feb 27 03:15:33 not too much...used to lurk on oe and ipaq and gpe... Feb 27 03:15:51 this whole openmoko thing fascinates me Feb 27 03:18:44 even if P1.5 had multi-touch, wifi, camera, HS[DU]PA, etc.. I would still buy P1, won't wait 4 months for any other device Feb 27 03:19:05 of course P1.5 won't be this big upgrade ;-) Feb 27 03:35:46 * jebba hopes he's not going off on dean too much on the community list... Feb 27 03:41:15 hello all.. is the neo 1973 have its built-in wlan? Feb 27 03:41:37 wifi? Feb 27 03:41:37 When version 1 was designed there was no sufficiently low-power WiFi chip available which has an open driver. You can attach (battery) powered USB hub to Neo1973 and then use supported WiFi USB stick. Also some later model at unknown time will include WiFi. For more information see http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ#Q:_What_is_the_rationale_behind_the_exclusion_of_WiFi.3F Feb 27 03:53:58 probably keynote at FOSDEM 2008 and also about battery: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2007-February/003758.html Feb 27 03:57:54 aloril: Agreed :) I'm getting v1 as a dev/play toy Feb 27 04:08:53 aloril: yes.. wifi.. which at least an 802.11b/g Feb 27 04:15:47 bintut: aloril answered your question with the FAQ entry Feb 27 04:20:39 * aloril added wlan to trigger words Feb 27 05:15:35 heh i have an ngage qd which uses that battery Feb 27 05:24:42 stefan_schmidt: Good clean slides :) Feb 27 05:24:58 That they run samba is truly weird %) Feb 27 05:38:53 openmoko: 03zhiyong_sun * r1145 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/applications/openmoko-footer/data/ (icon_app_history.png icon_app_toggle.png): update icon image: icon_app_history.png icon_apptoggle.png Feb 27 06:22:16 wifi, camera, faq will now trigger without question mark and upper case too (saw faq being invoked upper case without '?') Feb 27 07:10:26 openmoko: 03caowai_song * r1146 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/applications/openmoko-keyboard/layouts/ (211 files): Add all pixmaps to the source. Feb 27 07:11:17 wow Feb 27 07:11:23 Just thinking the same.. Feb 27 07:11:59 can we have the source of those pixmaps? Feb 27 07:12:13 so will the phase 0 units now travel out end of Feb ? Feb 27 07:13:19 all png files ... Feb 27 07:13:25 rob_w: In the fosdem talk sean said 26th or 27th, so early march Feb 27 07:13:42 * CM watched the video last evening Feb 27 07:13:54 thanks .. i didnt wathch it yet just downloaded it .. Feb 27 07:14:59 The talk was like a renaissance painting Feb 27 07:15:11 a visionary leader and his devoted followers :) Feb 27 07:15:26 hehe Feb 27 07:16:37 koen: was the trolltech guy asking a genuine question about carriers blocking the phones, or was it just FUD and politics? Feb 27 07:16:56 (the one right in the middle of mickey's talk, not at the end) Feb 27 07:18:34 genuine Feb 27 07:18:48 although he's biased of course Feb 27 07:19:06 rwhitby: the TT guy was Knut, btw Feb 27 07:20:21 * koen heads out to get Hep A, dtp and yellow fever vaccinations Feb 27 07:20:22 later all Feb 27 07:29:46 could the carriers even know your phone is a neo Feb 27 07:30:10 where does the imei live? inside the gsm module? Feb 27 07:38:09 buz: I think somebody mentioned that here Feb 27 07:46:00 hi Feb 27 07:46:16 Does Mickey every come in here? Feb 27 07:46:34 new article referred from news.google.com (nothing new in there): http://www.manilastandardtoday.com/?page=business6_feb27_2007 Feb 27 07:46:37 dneary: Every day I'd say Feb 27 07:47:14 dneary: But he doesn't seem to be a morning person Feb 27 07:59:37 CM: Cool, thank you Feb 27 07:59:46 CM: What's his nick? mickey? Feb 27 08:00:14 dneary: Usually mickeyl Feb 27 08:00:31 But maybe he has switched to dr.mickey now ;) Feb 27 08:01:10 ~seen mickeyl Feb 27 08:01:30 mickeyl was last seen on IRC in channel #oe, 3d 19h 19m 59s ago, saying: 'cya in a couple of hours'. Feb 27 08:02:13 openmoko: 03tony_guan * r1147 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/applications/openmoko-dialer/src/ (3 files): to remove the segment fault on input panel Feb 27 08:03:11 ~seen mickey Feb 27 08:03:23 mickey was last seen on IRC in channel #oe, 379d 13h 37m 5s ago, saying: 'ups'. Feb 27 08:12:54 what's the link to the latest MokoMakefile? Feb 27 08:18:50 rd_: wget http://www.rwhitby.net/files/openmoko/Makefile Feb 27 08:19:07 or make update-makefile if you already have one Feb 27 08:19:33 alphaone, thanks Feb 27 08:20:26 np Feb 27 08:54:07 I want the default dialer on OpenMoko to be a list with the last 20 numbers Feb 27 08:55:06 I'd say 80% of all calls I make with my k750 is by selecting the most common numbers, and 15% is from the address book Feb 27 08:55:07 hey Feb 27 08:55:15 Typing in a number is maybe once a week Feb 27 08:55:21 Stephmw: Morning :-) Feb 27 08:55:27 CM: I think it's 90% over here Feb 27 08:56:29 koen: I think I'll start to actually cound it from now on Feb 27 09:01:11 * CM learns how to spell count Feb 27 09:04:09 t0nY: Hello. Are you the dialer guy? :) Feb 27 09:04:44 no, i am tony tu Feb 27 09:04:50 :) Feb 27 09:05:51 Ok, just reading on the dialer page in the wiki and it says Tony guan, same as the CIA message above about updates to the dialer Feb 27 09:06:59 k, ic Feb 27 09:07:46 do you get phase 0 phone? Feb 27 09:08:04 No, but I'll buy at phase 1 Feb 27 09:14:58 * Nik0 is back. Feb 27 09:15:15 rd_: that link is now a redirect to the latest version of the MokoMakefile in the svn repo, so it's guaranteed to be up to date :-) Feb 27 09:19:03 phase0 phones out yet? Feb 27 09:19:17 http://embedded.com/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=197008670&pgno=1 Feb 27 09:19:36 Psi: Should be sent now, according to the fodsdem presentation Feb 27 09:19:44 cool Feb 27 09:27:27 hello Feb 27 09:28:24 CM: FOSDEM presentation said early March? Feb 27 09:31:12 ping Feb 27 09:31:37 have you get it Feb 27 09:36:59 counter? Feb 27 09:36:59 source: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/MokoMakefile ; a week, 2 days 01:48:25 (0.075 - 9.075 days) for devices for selected developers (2007-03-07); a month, 2 days (23.075 - 33.075 days) for devices for *ANYBODY* for $350 (targeting developers) (preorders: not yet) (2007-03-31); 7 months, 2 days (186.075 - 216.075 days) for mass market (2007-09-30): see topic for more info (411) Feb 27 09:45:40 _muk_: so finally i have rootfs for X86...but dont know what was the problems before Feb 27 09:47:01 jffs2 on x86? Feb 27 09:47:16 just rootfs Feb 27 09:47:36 since i dont have phone. it is best to work in x86 build Feb 27 09:48:40 aloril: It sounded like Sean said that because of the Chinese Newyear, the P0 phones would get shipped on Feb 26th or 27th, so arriving in the beginning of March Feb 27 09:49:15 It was somewhere in the middle of the talk Feb 27 09:53:55 in that case unmodified P0 counter was right, hmm.. Feb 27 09:54:01 2007-02-26 02:38:13 phase 0 - early march, phase 1 - late march Feb 27 09:54:16 so .. its about arriving, not when its shipped then.. Feb 27 09:55:02 then just consider modified P0 as "arrives" counter ;-) Feb 27 09:55:08 I thought people had P0 devices already? Feb 27 09:55:21 so_solid_moo: who had them? Feb 27 09:55:34 so_solid_moo, it was supposed to go that way, but there was still a bit of a delay Feb 27 09:55:45 of course, the main developers have samples... Feb 27 09:55:47 well, someone on the planet obviously has one :D Feb 27 09:56:07 so_solid_moo: that is older prototype, software in it is several months old Feb 27 09:56:12 ah, ok Feb 27 09:56:35 hello Feb 27 09:56:36 if you download source, compile and run you see its different now Feb 27 09:56:44 hi dd1234 Feb 27 09:56:49 <_muk_> Magon: nice! Well, I was stuck on some package that didn't downlod, but I downloaded it manually and it is still compiling. Feb 27 09:57:13 _muk_: dropbear? Feb 27 09:57:17 <_muk_> Magon: yes Feb 27 09:57:27 _muk_: same as me.. at 4 am :-) Feb 27 09:57:38 * aloril hasn't yet seen either "P0 has shipped" or "P0 has arrived" anywhere Feb 27 09:57:42 but i continued it when i woke up..at 7 Feb 27 09:58:11 <_muk_> Magon: BTW, I added a note to the Wiki about pastebin, since I have never used it before, and maybe others haven't used it either :-) Feb 27 09:59:34 :-) Feb 27 09:59:47 what to do to be able to chroot as normal user? Feb 27 10:01:16 Magon, install fakechroot ;) Feb 27 10:01:50 inz: thx Feb 27 10:03:28 mjr: cool, you made just the reply I wanted to make/see ;-) Feb 27 10:03:47 you're welcome :) Feb 27 10:04:58 * Nik0 is away: Gone away for now. Feb 27 10:06:47 inz: i misread that and installed fakeroot :-( Feb 27 10:07:27 ok..no fakechroot package in portage Feb 27 10:07:39 damn, a typo in the mail. Ah well. Feb 27 10:09:41 LOL: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2007-February/003791.html Feb 27 10:10:46 koen - *giggle* Feb 27 10:11:59 good morning Feb 27 10:14:24 hi all, where can i buy a Neo1973 :) Feb 27 10:15:09 in Sept Feb 27 10:15:57 counter? Feb 27 10:15:57 source: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/MokoMakefile ; a week, 2 days 01:09:27 (0.048 - 9.048 days) for devices for selected developers (2007-03-07); a month, 2 days (23.048 - 33.048 days) for devices for *ANYBODY* for $350 (targeting developers) (preorders: not yet) (2007-03-31); 7 months, 2 days (186.048 - 216.048 days) for mass market (2007-09-30): see topic for more info (412) Feb 27 10:16:06 aloril? Feb 27 10:16:16 ok, that one doesn't work :) Feb 27 10:16:19 koen: hehe Feb 27 10:16:25 ~koen? Feb 27 10:16:28 you are, like, our regular image monkey Feb 27 10:16:33 :) Feb 27 10:16:48 ~factinfo koen Feb 27 10:16:49 koen -- created by Rroet64 <~rroet@coffeemachine.kalf.org> at Fri Dec 24 19:12:00 2004 (794 days); it has been requested 20 times, last by koen, 21s ago. Feb 27 10:17:01 ~factinfo openmoko Feb 27 10:17:01 openmoko -- last modified at Tue Nov 14 12:39:50 2006 by mickeyl!n=nmickeyl@linuxtogo.org; it has been requested 5 times, last by thedaniel_ at Wed Jan 24 18:49:09 2007. Feb 27 10:20:57 can i run openmoko in windows using an emulator? Feb 27 10:22:24 yeah sure Feb 27 10:22:48 first of all, you can run linux in a number of VMs or coLinux Feb 27 10:23:19 and that right there along with an X server and certain applications such as Xoo will give you mostly what you need Feb 27 10:23:23 ooh, emulator question that is not in faq ;-) Feb 27 10:23:37 aloril, indeed, it was very refreshing :) Feb 27 10:24:25 ysg, if you want to emulate the ARM processor (though not perfectly the one in Neo at this point), you can use qemu to boot Feb 27 10:24:34 pun not intended Feb 27 10:25:05 hmm, but how can i build openmoko on the emulator? Feb 27 10:25:06 ysg: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (this autotrigger for new nick and 2 question marks during 15min done only once) Feb 27 10:25:10 ok reading it Feb 27 10:25:54 hmm let me try jeff's image then Feb 27 10:25:55 thanks Feb 27 10:26:10 cool, autotrigger worked perfectly Feb 27 10:26:56 hmm, the faq doesn't from a quick peek seem to mention that you can compile and run the openmoko software on an x86 without any particular emulation, so I'll mention that as well here Feb 27 10:27:15 well, on Linux/x86 anyway Feb 27 10:27:53 this was implicit in my first three lines, but let's make it explicit Feb 27 10:30:08 "Currently it can run on any Linux distribution, and plans are in place to allow it to work under Windows." from http://www.openembedded.org/ Feb 27 10:31:24 umm.. running openmoko apps directly under windows using cygwin might be easier that trying to run whole distro under windows directly ;-) Feb 27 10:31:56 gtk2+ seems to have windows port, etc.. anyway I guess going vmware, etc.. route is easier Feb 27 10:32:43 yeah, probably easier since that'll get you on a system most people will be using Feb 27 10:33:15 since I mentioned qemu anyway, that can also be used as a VM to run a Linux distro inside Windows, though less efficiently than VMware Feb 27 10:34:33 looks like updating and resetting all settings fixed my p900 Feb 27 10:34:39 so i can wait some longer ;) Feb 27 10:35:12 mjr: for v2 I suspect there might be even some NDAs in place that prevent telling some items Feb 27 10:35:25 aloril, quite possibly Feb 27 10:35:29 (guess, CPU might be so new that its not yet really announced (except by arm for core)) Feb 27 10:35:41 gimme cortex Feb 27 10:35:48 SCNR Feb 27 10:38:16 realistically, what cpu could be in 1.5? Feb 27 10:38:21 s3c2440? Feb 27 10:38:26 How do i compile my libs on openmoko. Tried using "how to run openmoko apps on pc" but of no use Feb 27 10:38:30 isn't 24xx ARM7? Feb 27 10:38:48 ah, no, that was 44x Feb 27 10:39:15 buz: TI has an Cortex-A8 OMAP: http://focus.ti.com/general/docs/wtbu/wtbuproductcontent.tsp?templateId=6123&navigationId=12643&contentId=14649 Feb 27 10:39:18 buz: no idea, but v2 should have *much* faster CPU (thus above NDA speculation) Feb 27 10:39:24 buz, I don't know, but I seem to recall Sean saying in Tampere that it'd clock at ~5xx MHz max Feb 27 10:39:30 *droool* Feb 27 10:39:58 omap3430 would be neat Feb 27 10:40:08 but that's gonna cost some serious money Feb 27 10:40:48 mjr: that is for P1.5 (as reply to "buz: realistically, what cpu could be in 1.5?") Feb 27 10:41:19 mhh imx31 clocks at 533 Feb 27 10:41:30 bulverde and xscale at 520 Feb 27 10:41:43 definitely some ARM11 - don't think ARM9 scales up that high Feb 27 10:41:49 aloril, yeah Feb 27 10:41:58 and likely graphics accelerator Feb 27 10:42:06 we might still get those transparent guis fpr p2 lol Feb 27 10:42:07 don't use intel (Marvell) chips, those are powerhungry, slow and expensive compared to the alternatives Feb 27 10:42:26 and you have to offer your soul to marvell to get a look at a datasheet ;) Feb 27 10:42:26 yeah use imx31 Feb 27 10:42:45 actually, s3c2440 can go to 533 too Feb 27 10:42:56 ARM920T Feb 27 10:43:05 oh, nice Feb 27 10:43:19 but that one is still on 130nm Feb 27 10:43:26 a 65nm omap would be sweet Feb 27 10:43:27 buz: yeah, my guess is yet to be announced i.MX33 using Cortex-A8 Feb 27 10:43:40 aloril: for 2.0 or 1.5 Feb 27 10:44:21 buz: definitely for v2 (next year) Feb 27 10:44:30 yeah Feb 27 10:44:35 ie.. what they plan to just announce ;-) Feb 27 10:45:54 in worst case i must buy one in sept and one in march 08 lol Feb 27 10:46:01 buz: I suspect also it will be 2x or 3x in price too Feb 27 10:46:08 Hi guys who's the manufacturer of the phone OpenMoko will run on? Feb 27 10:46:12 FIC Feb 27 10:46:14 i doubt you can sell very many 900$ phones Feb 27 10:46:20 on an as yet unproven platform Feb 27 10:46:28 well, of the "first" phone OpenMoko will run on Feb 27 10:46:42 OpenMoko is also said to be running on a Motorola phone Feb 27 10:47:10 buz: maybe there will be high more normal model, well.. this is speculation of course Feb 27 10:47:25 i expect more than one device Feb 27 10:47:33 one platform, different formfactors Feb 27 10:47:34 umm.. I meant there probably will be high end model and more normal level model Feb 27 10:47:54 yeah Feb 27 10:48:08 so would not surprised if most packed model was $900 ;-) Feb 27 10:48:25 it better come with xga out then Feb 27 10:48:38 if it costs more than a laptop it must have features like one ;) Feb 27 10:49:20 hehe Feb 27 10:49:41 smaller size is usually expensive though Feb 27 10:50:08 you can get x86 based umpc for that price Feb 27 10:50:52 do omap come with baseband integrated? Feb 27 10:50:56 or just some of them Feb 27 10:51:18 doesnt seem to me like omap2 and 3 have baseband on chip Feb 27 10:59:13 buz: aren't those still significantly bigger than Neo1973? (while being significantly smaller than laptop) Feb 27 11:16:57 hmm gtk-2.0 or gtk-2.4 is fine too? Feb 27 11:17:39 * v3rmap thinks gtk-2.0 is too old for a new product Feb 27 11:18:39 v3rmap: the doc Feb 27 11:18:41 v3rmap: the doc Feb 27 11:18:45 damn! Feb 27 11:18:53 v3rmap: the doc's mention gtk-2.0 Feb 27 11:21:37 spo0nman, http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/OpenMokoFramework shows gtk+-2.6 Feb 27 11:22:22 2.6.10 is I beleive the version used, as I always confuse it with 2.10.6 the version I use Feb 27 11:23:18 It's been a while since I coded using gtk, but I recall that if your app uses 2.0, it will run on all systems with gtk+ with the major version - "2" Feb 27 11:23:31 sort of Feb 27 11:23:38 2.10 had a small ABI break Feb 27 11:23:43 ok Feb 27 11:24:05 on arm every 2.XX to 2.XX+2 has an ABI break :-( Feb 27 11:24:27 don't forget about glib..... Feb 27 11:24:38 kubuntu sucks. Feb 27 11:24:48 s/k// Feb 27 11:24:48 XorA meant: on arm every 2.XX to 2.XX+2 has an ABI brea :-( Feb 27 11:24:56 apt: no I didnt Feb 27 11:25:00 apt: you suck Feb 27 11:25:08 no, *you* suck! Feb 27 11:25:15 ~fish apt Feb 27 11:25:17 * apt slaps apt around with a large trout Feb 27 11:25:23 heh Feb 27 11:25:39 apt, you're cool. Feb 27 11:25:41 Of course I am! Feb 27 11:25:46 oops Feb 27 11:25:50 counter Feb 27 11:25:50 P0: a week, a day 23:59:34 (-0.000 - 9.000 days); P1: 23.000 - 33.000; P2: 186.000 - 216.000 (long: "/msg aloril counter?") (413) Feb 27 11:25:52 not the expected response. Feb 27 11:30:49 interesting, openmoko search on news.google brings up N800 article (from several sources): http://news.google.com/news?q=openmoko&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&tab=wn&scoring=d Feb 27 11:31:18 I just get iphone stuff Feb 27 11:31:28 since google localizes the search Feb 27 11:34:19 hi mickeyl Feb 27 11:34:25 cheers Feb 27 11:34:43 hey dr. mickeyl Feb 27 11:34:59 :) Feb 27 11:35:07 Got home safe? Feb 27 11:35:36 yes, thanks. you too? unfortunately zecke infected me with his throat thingy Feb 27 11:35:44 so I'm feeling a bit weak atm. Feb 27 11:35:51 oh Feb 27 11:36:54 mickeyl: that makes 3 in 3 Feb 27 11:37:00 Yeah, the weather was a nuisance but we got home quite fast Feb 27 11:37:05 seems you get sick after each fosdem Feb 27 11:39:41 koen: no kidding. it's always I'm a bit weak when FOSDEM starts, then drinking beer doesn't really helps either ;) Feb 27 11:40:29 Hi mickeyl! Feb 27 11:40:35 hi Elrond Feb 27 11:42:19 mickeyl - http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973_Battery notes some "internal protection circuitry". Do you know, if hthe Nokia ones have that too? Feb 27 11:42:28 mickeyl: fyi, dneary was asking for you earlier :) Feb 27 11:42:31 yes Feb 27 11:42:56 they have IIRC a thermal fuse inside the battery Feb 27 11:43:09 I opened one once. Feb 27 11:43:30 The nokia that is Feb 27 11:44:24 So buying a new nokia one from a trusted dealer wont make the neo more dangerous? Feb 27 11:44:31 Thanks CM Feb 27 11:44:43 hi dneary. got back safe? Feb 27 11:44:49 mickeyl: We met at FOSDEM - I said I'd follow up about FOSTEL Feb 27 11:44:53 Ah - yeah :) Feb 27 11:45:00 Cool - you know who I am Feb 27 11:45:10 sure :) Feb 27 11:45:20 i don't remember a lot, but i remember you Feb 27 11:45:32 I *think* that's a good thing Feb 27 11:45:40 could be both ;) Feb 27 11:45:42 hehe Feb 27 11:45:45 Elrond: shouldn't. Feb 27 11:45:53 Anyway, I'll be back in a while Feb 27 11:45:56 mickeyl: did you get to see your photo btw? Feb 27 11:46:24 Stephmw: hehe, i did, yes. I'm looking a bit odd, but I guess that's me Feb 27 11:46:47 mickeyl: everyone looks a bit odd at FOSDEM, I think that's part of the fun :) Feb 27 11:46:54 heh, right Feb 27 11:47:29 dneary: so, Sean looks like he wants to make FOSTEL. I'm trying to rearrange schedule to join him, but can't promise yet Feb 27 11:57:16 I hope the faster CPU doesn't use more power at idle. Faster CPU, bigger battery, larger screen, ... may not be a win. Feb 27 11:59:26 I think those mobile CPUs slow down if the load is less. Feb 27 11:59:52 no, you can configure them to do dyntick or cpufreq scaling Feb 27 11:59:58 they don't do that by default Feb 27 12:00:31 (or rather, you can tell the kernel to do that) Feb 27 12:01:02 CPU scaling doesn't really help if the electrical minimum draw is bigger. Feb 27 12:01:05 koen, ok, so does the OpenMoko kernel have this feature? Feb 27 12:01:34 it has the feature (any linux kernel has), dunno if it's enabled Feb 27 12:02:42 not yet. IIRC fluffs is currently working out S3C24xx cpufreq support Feb 27 12:03:02 For example, the one in the neo uses around half the power at idle, unless you do CPU specific stuff. The lowest power mode is still 10% of the maximum. Feb 27 12:03:30 Which translates to a couple of days, you can't throttle back to a couple of megahert and run for a week. Feb 27 12:06:50 Does anyone have an estimate how long the Neo will run on the standard battery? Feb 27 12:07:08 there are my estimates on the wiki. Feb 27 12:07:14 Worst case, around 3 hours Feb 27 12:07:25 this is playing a movie for example. Feb 27 12:07:36 2 days, keeping the CPU in slow mode all the time, with the screen off. Feb 27 12:07:51 SpeedEvil: Ok. Looking at the battery page now, but didn't see that. On the :Talk page? Feb 27 12:07:55 Maybe 40 hours playing MP3, with the CPU going between active and slow mode. Feb 27 12:08:05 lnink off FAQ Feb 27 12:08:10 ok Feb 27 12:08:17 I forget the exact name Feb 27 12:09:58 np, I'll look around Feb 27 12:17:10 SpeedEvil: I shortened the title a bit, hope that's ok. Feb 27 12:17:16 Fine Feb 27 12:17:27 SpeedEvil: Nice text, thanks :) Feb 27 12:17:49 They are guessword, taking the datasheet CPU figures, and adding a fudge factor for RAM. Feb 27 12:19:21 what stresses the CPU the most: decoding MP3 or Ogg vorbis? Feb 27 12:20:02 Dunno. Feb 27 12:20:06 depends on bitrate I guess Feb 27 12:20:11 * SpeedEvil would measure, given hardware :) Feb 27 12:20:17 hi all Feb 27 12:20:23 And much more, the decoder. Feb 27 12:20:54 SpeedEvil: both formats has integer decoders Feb 27 12:20:54 sure Feb 27 12:20:55 As a completely unrelated point, a single purpose OGG decoder used slightly more power than a MP3 chip. Feb 27 12:21:33 i was searching for media about Neo1973 running OpenMoko but i didn't found a lot of things... Feb 27 12:21:42 There is very little. Feb 27 12:21:51 Only several developers have hardware at the moment. Feb 27 12:21:57 Expect more in march. Feb 27 12:22:03 ok thanks :) Feb 27 12:22:09 When some 50 phones go out to preselected developers. Feb 27 12:22:11 i'll be waiting Feb 27 12:22:25 And you can even buy your own in late march :) Feb 27 12:22:36 this project seems very good Feb 27 12:22:59 it will work with any GSM operators ? Feb 27 12:23:03 yes. Feb 27 12:23:23 Unless they do wierd stuff like only letting you use their own phones. Feb 27 12:23:32 yes... Feb 27 12:24:08 faq Feb 27 12:24:08 See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ Feb 27 12:24:32 thanks Feb 27 12:24:50 hum late march is for developers... Feb 27 12:24:51 you were a little slow on that aloril Feb 27 12:24:56 ::grin:: Feb 27 12:25:34 Lo-Down: it wasn't autotrigger (no 2 '?') ;-) Feb 27 12:25:45 haha Feb 27 12:26:10 questions without '?' ;-) Feb 27 12:27:03 aloril, you been on all night? Feb 27 12:27:24 night? its day here ;-) Feb 27 12:27:31 It's gotta be tiring hearing the beep on 'FAQ', and waking up to press the button. Feb 27 12:27:48 aloril: so american centric of me Feb 27 12:28:22 SpeedEvil: its a tough job, but someone has to do it Feb 27 12:29:33 SpeedEvil: beep on f*a*q? I guess you have this keyword trigger that? Feb 27 12:32:12 aevin: I can't seem to find any recent comparisons of ogg and mp3 playback cpu usage Feb 27 12:33:32 But in the old ones (2000-2001) ogg is 10-15 times higher, an order of magnitude worse. I assume it's more optimized now though Feb 27 12:33:56 It's going to depend heavily on the CPU and player. I suppose similar ARM platforms would be a reasonable benchmark. Feb 27 12:35:06 Yes, this paper http://ietfec.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/E88-A/8/2124 (Design of Ogg Vorbis Decoder System for Embedded Platform) is probably interesting Feb 27 12:35:19 As a result of hardware implementation, 73% improvement in CPU load is achieved by specific hardware modules for IMDCT and residue decoding process. Feb 27 12:35:29 Well, that's useless. Feb 27 12:35:42 We don't care about that, because there isn't one. Feb 27 12:35:45 :( Feb 27 12:35:51 Hmm.. Feb 27 12:35:52 OMG! FPGA! Feb 27 12:35:54 :) Feb 27 12:35:59 Hehe Feb 27 12:36:19 hello Feb 27 12:36:25 Welcome! Feb 27 12:36:40 thank you :) Feb 27 12:37:00 I wish I had an arm box with no FPU to play with. for OGG/mp3 Feb 27 12:37:27 FPU? Feb 27 12:37:46 The neo peocessor has no floating point in hardware. Feb 27 12:38:00 All mine do. Feb 27 12:38:02 why? Feb 27 12:38:15 Because they forgot to add it. Feb 27 12:38:19 Diddn't they feel stupid :) Feb 27 12:38:23 the ARM920T doesn't have floating point units? Feb 27 12:38:34 Seriously, floating point is a relatively large chip area. Feb 27 12:38:52 hmmz... Feb 27 12:38:57 AIUI, no. I may be utterly wrong. Feb 27 12:39:36 so you're trying to build some library for FPU-less processors to use OGG/MP3? Feb 27 12:39:56 No - I'm trying to do basic benchmarks for the neo. Feb 27 12:40:09 And trying different approaches perhaps. Feb 27 12:49:46 openmoko: 03werner * r1148 10/trunk/src/host/dfu-util/src/sam7dfu.c: Feb 27 12:49:46 openmoko: sam7dfu.c (sam7dfu_do_upload): initialize total_bytes to zero Feb 27 12:49:46 openmoko: sam7dfu.c (sam7dfu_do_upload): set "ret" to total_bytes on short write Feb 27 12:51:41 CM: okay. thanks for trying to find out :-) Feb 27 12:58:43 mickeyl: That's great - if you manage to fit it in, let me know Feb 27 13:00:14 theoretical 200wpm: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shorthand Feb 27 13:00:42 Not on a 40*50mm screen Feb 27 13:01:27 There is a lot of possibility for someone that cracks it though. Feb 27 13:01:49 I suspect the eventual answer for fast text input is going to be something that takes a fair bit of learning. Feb 27 13:02:13 yes, also shorthand doesn't take timing information into account Feb 27 13:02:40 timing information + geometry fully taken advantage -> something pretty fast even on small screen Feb 27 13:05:40 nice 280 wpm: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gregg_Shorthand Feb 27 13:08:55 Wow - and looking at the athletics page, I find I can run 100m in 9.77 seconds! :) Feb 27 13:09:11 hehe Feb 27 13:09:21 Graphs of average users per time for various systems would be very nice. Feb 27 13:11:19 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WPM Feb 27 13:12:10 according to that peak speed record is 212wpm using keyboard, so .. shorthand seems to be faster in theory Feb 27 13:13:32 280/3.5=80 for average user (if same ratio with top temporary speed and average user) Feb 27 13:14:17 anyway, as I said, no timing information used, so I strongly suspect its possible to input quite fast on even a small touch screen Feb 27 13:14:25 Can't seem to find any free papers or studies on it. Feb 27 13:14:29 Lots of pay for ones. Feb 27 13:15:20 step 0: asking question: can you achieve nice speed on small touch screen by using all information? Feb 27 13:15:33 done. Feb 27 13:15:45 I'd still like to try hexinput :) Feb 27 13:16:11 ;-) (anyway, I think asking question is important first step in doing something) Feb 27 13:16:43 Heh, that's not in the wiki yet!?! Feb 27 13:16:46 * CM adds.. Feb 27 13:17:39 http://www.tengo.net/ (though patented) claims nice speeds also and has some nice reviews Feb 27 13:18:47 * SpeedEvil ponders the other hex input. Feb 27 13:19:03 (dunno if this is useful or if you have seen it already) SpeedEvil: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gregg_Shorthand has links, especially http://gregg.angelfishy.net/ Feb 27 13:19:06 16 buttons, 2 buttons per char. Feb 27 13:19:10 re ogg vorbis: google for 'tremor' and 'ivorbis' Feb 27 13:19:10 yeah. Feb 27 13:20:33 does anybody knows about some camera with bluetooth interface? Feb 27 13:22:39 I know most DSLR ones can. Feb 27 13:22:40 :) Feb 27 13:22:56 I haven't really seen a tiny 1MP camera or so. Feb 27 13:23:10 yes, I mean 1MP or so :) Feb 27 13:23:32 Who can update the wiki configuration settings? Look at this: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Image:Stylus_06_input_keypad.png Feb 27 13:24:00 SpeedEvil: do you know what kind of BT protocol DSLR one use for video/photo transfer? Feb 27 13:24:35 I'm guessing the default image preview is set to be 800x600, resulting in all 640x480 screenshots being reduced to 600x450 looking horrible. Feb 27 13:24:35 I'm unsure, I've never been able to afford them. Feb 27 13:24:39 So I diddn't look. Feb 27 13:25:05 ok Feb 27 13:25:16 Isn't the camera one of the bluetooth standards? Feb 27 13:25:20 s/640x480/480x640/ Feb 27 13:25:20 CM meant: I'm guessing the default image preview is set to be 800x600, resulting in all 480x640 screenshots being reduced to 600x450 looking horrible. Feb 27 13:25:50 i know there are some cameras which transmit over 2.4Ghz, but don't know if it's BT Feb 27 13:26:27 dunno much about BT proto/standards Feb 27 13:26:33 actually shorthand and other writing mostly do preserve timing information by moving hand across paper ;-) Feb 27 13:27:05 Oops - I was thinking of SDIO. Feb 27 13:28:24 CM it seems to be a problem with resizing PNG's, the thumbnail on http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973_Battery also looks bad Feb 27 13:29:12 PNGs are also bad bandwidth wise, compared to jpeg. Feb 27 13:29:17 At least for photos. Feb 27 13:29:36 85% qual jpeg is around half the size of png. Feb 27 13:29:38 etf|work: Yes, definitely. Still think all 480x640 screenshots should be shown full size when clicked Feb 27 13:29:39 indeed Feb 27 13:30:01 The wiki is pretty fast now though Feb 27 13:30:12 yes I don't know mediawiki that well but I agree theres probably a setting somewhere Feb 27 13:30:14 SpeedEvil: jpg shouldn't be used for screenshots Feb 27 13:30:15 Well, yes. Not when it gets /.'d. Feb 27 13:30:26 koen: no, I meant for photos only. Feb 27 13:30:31 SpeedEvil: since too many people don't know how to prevent jpeg artifacts :( Feb 27 13:30:34 using it for screenshots is (usually) bad. Feb 27 13:31:17 anything that has high-contrast change-overs Feb 27 13:31:20 Two pics side by side, looking at zoom for artifacts in HF areas, and smooth contrast changes. Feb 27 13:31:40 wind up quality till they go away. Feb 27 13:32:44 etf|work: Had the same issue on muine-player.org, then it was $wgImageLimits in the configuration settings Feb 27 13:32:49 or s/jpg/png and do sensible thing Feb 27 13:33:16 CM ok, guess we need to find someone who can change that Feb 27 13:33:35 It's not essential, but the wiki would definitely look nicer :) Feb 27 13:33:37 I'm not meaning for screenshots, just photos of the 'real world'. Feb 27 13:33:54 If it's invisible under zoom and half the size... Feb 27 13:37:36 aloril: that tengo thing looks cool :) Feb 27 13:41:02 aloril: isn't there a way to create a similar input type that doesn't violate their patent? Feb 27 13:43:19 how about some plugin system where you could easily script a behaviour for input and drop it on top Feb 27 13:43:37 openmoko: 03thomas * r1149 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/openmoko-libs/libmokoui/moko-alignment.c: Feb 27 13:43:37 openmoko: * Prevent MokoAlignment from attempting to allocate negative width or height to Feb 27 13:43:37 openmoko: child widgets Feb 27 13:45:02 not vilolating any patents, but enable the users to use a behaviour they are comfortable or familiar with Feb 27 13:45:33 End users will be violating the patent in that case - there is no exception for personal use. Feb 27 13:46:12 Thought hte chances of peoplle going after them is small. Feb 27 13:50:16 the devs might get C&Ds though Feb 27 13:55:29 yes, it will still be a issue if someone uses a patent encumbered method. But, A: their own choice, not openmoko/communitys and B: VERY hard to do something about Feb 27 13:56:32 LuitvD[away]: dunno, anyway sounds like software patent and hopefully those go away ;-) Feb 27 13:57:07 just make a version for the patented world and another for the free world Feb 27 13:57:57 if one of methods is keyboard, another hexinput, etc.. hard to sue for allowing plugins .. Feb 27 13:58:47 It should really be at a distance from the openmoko/FIC duality though. Feb 27 13:59:16 FIC is taiwanese, and I doubt patents really apply in taiwan Feb 27 13:59:16 We _really_ don't want any 'bad' stuff leading to badness like phones getting banned from sales in countries. Feb 27 13:59:43 However, if P2 gets stopped at the US border... Feb 27 14:00:22 Ideally, of course, software patents go away, which would help lots. Feb 27 14:02:20 I just looked at a tengo video Feb 27 14:02:26 what's so impressive with that thing? Feb 27 14:02:38 It's not playing for me - for some reason. Feb 27 14:02:54 '79 wpm' with 'less than a day' Feb 27 14:04:48 anyway the idea of tengo is rather simple, how could something like that be patented? Feb 27 14:05:03 Because the patent system is fucked in the US. Feb 27 14:05:28 To drive down costs, they let almost anything be patented, as it can always be sorted out later inexpensively in court. Feb 27 14:05:36 It only costs a few hundred million... Feb 27 14:05:43 loufoque: in todays climate you ask the wrong question...how could it not be? :b Feb 27 14:05:52 if it produces a physical result, it's patentable in the EU also Feb 27 14:05:56 SpeedEvil: yeah, better not include any patented technology now Feb 27 14:06:06 It's basically T9 with letters isn't it? Feb 27 14:06:20 SpeedEvil: however if plugin system allows user to install their own (or invent their own!) that should now be problem Feb 27 14:06:39 Yeah - as long as you don't mention on the .us site any ways to infringe. Feb 27 14:06:52 SpeedEvil, incidentall, I rather thought that most patent laws spesifically didn't apply for personal (private) use (however, as soon as you're using your phone to do business...) Feb 27 14:06:53 And make some token effort to keep .us people out of the .world site. Feb 27 14:07:04 Patents for things that are not physical products suck. Parameter patens for instance, such incredible stupidity Feb 27 14:07:22 mjr: The phrase is typically 'gain' - rather than buisness. Feb 27 14:07:43 IIRC anything that makes something easier has been held to be 'gain' Feb 27 14:08:06 okay; I'm no intl. patent law expert Feb 27 14:08:16 Buisness use is just an obvious case, with obvious financial rewards. Feb 27 14:08:40 Me neither, I looked into it a while back, when I was considering infringing someones patent. Feb 27 14:09:26 so_solid_moo: it's not really related to the hardware Feb 27 14:10:07 loufoque: it doesn't have to be Feb 27 14:10:31 so_solid_moo: I thought only software that were tightly related to hardware were patentable in the EU Feb 27 14:10:43 loufoque: sadly, no Feb 27 14:10:56 for example, I can show you a patent on barrel-shifting an array of memory pointers. Feb 27 14:10:59 aloril: yeah... but most of the time software (and hardware also) patents are country-based... and you can get around most patents by making your idea a little diffrent Feb 27 14:11:18 aloril: nobody can make a completely failsafe patent ;) Feb 27 14:11:26 loufoque, software patenting is against the european patent convention, but EPO grants such patents gladly, as they get money from it. If they're actually valid varies from member state to state Feb 27 14:11:40 can you violate patent by just thinking? Feb 27 14:12:41 mjr: patents granted by the EPO have no validity in any national european court I know of Feb 27 14:13:03 all PO should be burned to the ground Feb 27 14:13:15 well, also the policies vary within the member countries' own patent offices and courts Feb 27 14:13:21 loufoque: they are vary rarely thrown out Feb 27 14:13:25 loufoque: they are assumed to be valid Feb 27 14:13:34 aloril: lol, I'd like to patent that :) Feb 27 14:13:42 What we really need is for all patent granting bodies to - for every patent, have 10 experts in the field think for an hour or so on how to achieve the result that the patent claims, without seing the method. Feb 27 14:13:47 aloril: getting royalties on every single dirty thought :) Feb 27 14:13:57 And seeing if they come up with the same method. Feb 27 14:14:05 write some patented algorithm in English and then execute it in your brain only Feb 27 14:14:28 If >5 of them do, the person applying pays 100 times the application fee. Feb 27 14:14:31 brains can be patented since USA starting accepting gene patents Feb 27 14:14:37 (or in some programming language and execute that, but English case is more obvious for everybody) Feb 27 14:15:00 blue eyes can be patented? Feb 27 14:15:06 so if you're born with blue eyes you've got to pay royalties? Feb 27 14:16:52 Or pluck them out. Feb 27 14:17:49 XorA: Those gene patents are crazy.. If you have a patented disease and test yourself for it, you don't own the tissue they used to do the testing any more. It belongs to the owner of the patent Feb 27 14:18:09 http://www.redhat.com/v/magazine/ogg/truthhappens.ogg :) Feb 27 14:18:13 Hepatitis C is also patented.. Feb 27 14:19:28 also, doctors testing Ashkenazi jews for a disease (I forget which) have to pay royalties since somebody noticed that said group of Jews have it more often Feb 27 14:19:30 or implement English language (subset of course), also keep execution state (all memory) in pure English and then implement FPGA to run it Feb 27 14:19:41 testing somebody else, you don't infringe the patent Feb 27 14:19:51 if you examine memory any time, it would contain just English text (for data and code) Feb 27 14:20:45 (in the US) Feb 27 14:20:52 LuitvD, did you got reply ? Feb 27 14:20:54 it is shameful to have to pay royalties to heal people Feb 27 14:21:06 (or s/FPGA/simple C program/) Feb 27 14:21:18 denis^da: not yet Feb 27 14:21:25 of course can implement it itself for demonstration, but eventually something is needed to run programs Feb 27 14:21:34 kk Feb 27 14:22:03 mjr: The extra fees for testing for breast cancer is around $2000, because it's patented Feb 27 14:22:26 if we could run program in english that would mean we have AI that is smarter than ourselves Feb 27 14:23:54 wow, this one really sounds like the story of sean at fosdem: http://www.redhat.com/f/ogg/choice.ogg Feb 27 14:24:04 loufoque: depending on where in the world you are, that may not be so difficult Feb 27 14:24:04 the main thought of that film Feb 27 14:25:06 loufoque: I meant subset of English ;-) Feb 27 14:28:29 loufoque: probably something that resembles Python Feb 27 14:48:44 buz: you there? Feb 27 14:49:47 buz: you said the e2862 would hit the market at about 250 US$? that one has GPS too :) so the only difference with the e2881 is that it has qwerty and a higher resolution Feb 27 14:50:25 buz: I might even concider buying that e2862... it looks nice... KRZR like :) Feb 27 14:52:03 LuitvD: what are those? Feb 27 14:52:43 loufoque: some chinese phones, made by the company that launched the first linux smartphone ever Feb 27 14:52:51 loufoque: www.e28.com Feb 27 14:52:54 LuitvD, but it isn't open at all, correct? Feb 27 14:53:04 jebba: not sure yet Feb 27 14:53:18 jebba: gonna find out as soon as those people mail me back.... Feb 27 14:53:21 it's in a weird language Feb 27 14:53:30 lol Feb 27 14:53:34 loufoque: http://www.e28.com/e28mobile/mobile_e2881.htm Feb 27 14:53:39 that's the nicest device :) Feb 27 14:53:48 loufoque: http://www.e28.com/e28mobile/mobile_e2862.htm Feb 27 14:54:01 and that's a nice one too :) Feb 27 14:54:13 though that first one has some openmoko potential Feb 27 14:54:29 especially if it's nicely priced... which it most likely is Feb 27 14:54:43 (that second one is most likely 250$ Feb 27 14:55:05 it has wifi. Feb 27 14:55:33 loufoque: indeed it does Feb 27 14:55:58 loufoque: GSM/GPRS, BT, WiFi, GPS, qwerty Feb 27 14:56:10 they also have cameras Feb 27 14:56:29 loufoque: the only downside compared to the Neo1973 is half the SDRAM and a quarter of the resolution Feb 27 14:56:43 loufoque: forgot that one :) 2Mpix cam Feb 27 14:56:52 I just love it... Feb 27 14:56:56 that device Feb 27 14:57:02 those are not the only downsides. Feb 27 14:57:12 It'd be magnificent if it'd run openmoko Feb 27 14:57:23 loufoque: and that it's not (yet) running openmoko Feb 27 14:57:40 loufoque: those downsides are the only I care about Feb 27 14:57:40 LuitvD, 250$ is a so good price Feb 27 14:57:44 but i doubt that :) Feb 27 14:57:45 rd_: yeah... Feb 27 14:58:02 rd_: for that smaller device (QCIF+, smaller cam, no querty) Feb 27 14:58:29 rd_: the e2881 will most likely sell around 300$ Feb 27 14:58:32 shouldn't the neo 1973 be able to playback video at 25 fps, at least for 320x240? Feb 27 14:58:52 well, if you haven't heard from them, it seems it's not "open"... like if it was open you wouldn't /have/ to hear from them, you'd just hit svn or something........ Feb 27 14:58:52 loufoque: that's yet to be tested... Feb 27 14:58:53 hello Feb 27 14:59:05 300$ is still cheap Feb 27 14:59:21 rd_: for what it does, yes, it's cheap Feb 27 14:59:53 if it's open, you would still able to hack its features, or somehow getting oe/openmoko running on it Feb 27 15:00:07 hi doublefacer007 Feb 27 15:00:14 hi aloril Feb 27 15:00:19 LuitvD, i like the wifi :) Feb 27 15:00:43 rd_: such a phone for 230 euro's is just great :) Feb 27 15:01:19 LuitvD, yeah, very cheap Feb 27 15:01:20 $250 is not 230 euros Feb 27 15:01:24 rd_: the thing I like about that e2862 is the secondary display :P fun thing to play with Feb 27 15:01:34 how mach of the neo 1973? Feb 27 15:01:37 loufoque: I was talking about the more expensive one Feb 27 15:01:43 more like 190 euros Feb 27 15:01:46 doublefacer007: what? Feb 27 15:01:54 loufoque: yeah, 190 it is Feb 27 15:01:59 LuitvD, how did u know the price? Feb 27 15:02:05 loufoque: but I'd still go for that more expensive one Feb 27 15:02:06 but you have to add taxes and shipping Feb 27 15:02:16 rd_: the price of e2862 is mentioned on some website Feb 27 15:02:20 hi Feb 27 15:02:26 shipping US to europe for a phone size package is miniscule Feb 27 15:02:28 20$ maybe Feb 27 15:02:38 oh Feb 27 15:02:50 DesktopMa: US to europe... the e28 devices are chinese ;) Feb 27 15:03:23 well, I'm assuming they're shipping from US offices Feb 27 15:03:25 but perhaps not Feb 27 15:03:27 impatient ;-) Feb 27 15:03:37 asia->europe costs the same if not cheaper than US->europe Feb 27 15:03:40 DesktopMa: They have one US office... Feb 27 15:03:55 DesktopMa: yeah, Asia > europe is cheap too Feb 27 15:04:00 Asia > anywhere is cheap :) Feb 27 15:04:06 I've shipped boxes that could contain I guess 4 phone boxes fro 20$ Feb 27 15:04:09 yep := Feb 27 15:04:10 btw, can FIC ship from europe? Feb 27 15:04:11 :) Feb 27 15:04:13 even Canada > europe is more expensive then that :) Feb 27 15:04:21 loufoque: from or to? Feb 27 15:04:25 from and to Feb 27 15:04:37 loufoque: lol, it ships from taiwan I guess... Feb 27 15:04:40 for minimal costs for us europeans Feb 27 15:04:49 they should write "production sample: value 20$" on the boxes Feb 27 15:04:52 no taxes ftw Feb 27 15:04:56 loufoque: but maybe someone can set up some distribution for shared buying or something... Feb 27 15:05:11 DesktopMa: or "gift" Feb 27 15:05:13 :) Feb 27 15:05:17 :) Feb 27 15:05:26 customs probably wonder wtf I did to deserve so many gifts Feb 27 15:05:28 I import alot :P Feb 27 15:05:32 lol Feb 27 15:05:43 "used video games: 20$" Feb 27 15:05:47 heheh Feb 27 15:05:53 two wiis, 15 games, 10 dvds and a 360 hd-dvd player :P Feb 27 15:05:55 production samples is a good one... Feb 27 15:06:10 LOL, 20$ my ass :P Feb 27 15:06:17 :) Feb 27 15:06:19 shipping maybe... Feb 27 15:06:20 :P Feb 27 15:06:29 nah shipping for those was close to 80$ Feb 27 15:06:31 huge package Feb 27 15:06:34 lol Feb 27 15:07:00 two wiis, 15 games, 10 dvds ... etc. : 300$ Feb 27 15:07:23 getting it taxed like 20 dollars-worth: priceless Feb 27 15:07:33 :) Feb 27 15:09:06 lol :) Feb 27 15:09:18 even with shipping I saved like, 200$ on that shipment Feb 27 15:09:20 Norwegian prices are insane Feb 27 15:09:27 If it does ship from within europe, then that's a big plus. Feb 27 15:09:34 plus I get proper 24 fps movies Feb 27 15:09:51 As - for example, in the UK, that'd save 24% or so of tax/duty. Feb 27 15:09:59 yeah Feb 27 15:10:04 or they could lie, as I suggested Feb 27 15:10:05 Especially if the $350 price is held. Feb 27 15:10:20 Companies lying on declaration forms is a really bad idea. Feb 27 15:11:11 shhh Feb 27 15:11:12 :P Feb 27 15:11:42 For example, if it goes missing, then they only get paid the declared value in insurance. Feb 27 15:12:13 And then there is the potential fraud problems in the target country. Feb 27 15:12:26 As it is defrauding the tax authorities. Feb 27 15:12:36 that's why you need a shady individual to ship it to you Feb 27 15:12:41 lol Feb 27 15:12:55 I'm not getting the phone if it means playing taxes on it twice Feb 27 15:13:02 maybe "production sample" will come across the border without taxation? Feb 27 15:13:13 you still need a lower value Feb 27 15:13:18 unfortunatly... Feb 27 15:13:20 dunno... Feb 27 15:13:21 It only gets taxed once into the EU. Feb 27 15:13:31 I'm not in the EU Feb 27 15:13:35 Oh. Feb 27 15:14:01 * LuitvD wonders if declaring "gift" is illegal... I "gave" FIC 350$, and FIC "gave" me a phone Feb 27 15:14:02 I thought that .no was. Feb 27 15:14:04 guess I could order one to a swedish PO box Feb 27 15:14:10 and drive over and get it Feb 27 15:15:28 DesktopMa: Is it that much cheaper to get it here? (Gothenburg, sw) Feb 27 15:15:56 yeah because you don't have to pay taxes twice Feb 27 15:16:01 LuitvD: declaring gift probably is, but adding Gift as a christianname for yourself is not, such a pity its ambiguous :-) Feb 27 15:16:02 I'd save 25% + 20$ Feb 27 15:16:29 XorA: lol :) Feb 27 15:16:44 will there be any point in trying to order collectively to reduce shipment costs, you think? Feb 27 15:16:50 DesktopMa: If you buy some alcohol on that trip over you'll save even more ;) Feb 27 15:17:03 yep! Feb 27 15:17:23 although I filled in all the documentation properly for zaurus I ordered from Japan and I have never seen a customs bill Feb 27 15:17:34 aevin: a shipping center in uk/sweden/denmark/germany would be preferable Feb 27 15:17:41 seems its pot luck what gets charged and what doesnt Feb 27 15:17:50 i guess import taxes will be more expensive anyways... but probably unavoidable. Feb 27 15:18:03 I'm willing to be the shipping centre in the UK. All I want is a couple of free ones :) Feb 27 15:18:07 not if you have a regular person shipping to you Feb 27 15:18:12 XorA: true... many 100€+ packages passed customs here too Feb 27 15:18:54 everything is checked here Feb 27 15:18:58 they're all nazis Feb 27 15:19:09 all my packages have a samp that says "no customs" Feb 27 15:19:12 because of the downwritten value Feb 27 15:19:15 *stamp Feb 27 15:21:14 The problem is that customs do open stuff occasionally. Feb 27 15:21:20 And they know a phone isn't worth $20. Feb 27 15:21:38 Then you have to prove it. Feb 27 15:22:09 And incur extra costs usually, in addition to paying the tax anyway. Feb 27 15:25:04 you could say it was a printing error, it's actually $200 Feb 27 15:25:25 wahahah Feb 27 15:26:09 I hate customs... I hate tax... Feb 27 15:27:48 It's just normal that the government gets its share in trades. Feb 27 15:27:51 another good feature of the e2881: Full size SD Feb 27 15:28:19 another bad feature : mono speaker Feb 27 15:28:30 LuitvD: with SDIO? Feb 27 15:28:33 loufoque: they take a part of the money I make already... they got a part of the money I worked for Feb 27 15:28:37 SpeedEvil: not sure Feb 27 15:28:44 And SDIO isn't of much use anyway with only one slot. Feb 27 15:30:44 SpeedEvil: it has internal microSD, and external full-size SD/MMC Feb 27 15:30:51 SpeedEvil: that's one thing that's for sure Feb 27 15:30:51 Ah. Feb 27 15:30:55 SpeedEvil: fill phone with your own info so that it looks like it was yours already ;-) Feb 27 15:30:57 I think you said that before. Feb 27 15:31:01 SpeedEvil: yeah :) Feb 27 15:31:06 * SpeedEvil suffers from parity errors. Feb 27 15:31:15 SpeedEvil: then claim you lost it and nice person mails it to you Feb 27 15:31:50 it's lying too... Feb 27 15:31:58 Not when the tracking says 'held up in customs'. Feb 27 15:32:36 * SpeedEvil leaves to do DIY. (http://www.mauve.plus.com/walls.html) Feb 27 15:32:54 * LuitvD wants the e2881... hopes he'll get it for fre Feb 27 15:32:58 free* Feb 27 15:33:08 anyway, best solution is to have shipped from EU ;-) Feb 27 15:33:39 aloril: not sure about that... Feb 27 15:34:19 LuitvD: if you live in EU, then no customs (and its honest) Feb 27 15:34:29 aloril: are you sure? Feb 27 15:34:55 of course there are no customs between members of the EU Feb 27 15:35:29 loufoque: you'd be surprised... Feb 27 15:35:35 just needs to have where its shipped from be cheapest one to import outside EU Feb 27 15:35:37 loufoque: everything is possible... Feb 27 15:36:06 LuitvD: do you have some example? Feb 27 15:36:58 aloril: I can't simply buy a computer from germany without the proper forms filled in declaring the tax has been applied in germany already... Feb 27 15:37:07 aloril: they are suspicious as hell... Feb 27 15:39:31 lol, those e28 devices are quite new :) nearly all were launched early this year (the 2831, 2832, 2861, 2862 and 2881 are) Feb 27 15:40:03 (and the e2831 has got FCC approval already :)) Feb 27 15:40:55 for a customer, the best thing about buying in the EU is that jurisdiction is at the customer's living place, not whereever the merchant sits Feb 27 16:07:32 counter Feb 27 16:07:36 P0: a week, a day 19:17:50 (-0.196 - 8.804 days); P1: 22.804 - 32.804; P2: 185.804 - 215.804 (long: "/msg aloril counter?") (414) Feb 27 16:29:09 "we do have an irc channel" Feb 27 16:29:21 (sean on stage) Feb 27 16:30:48 What sort of a name is Pultz? Feb 27 16:30:50 Polish? Feb 27 16:33:50 who's name is pultz? Feb 27 16:34:15 doesn't sound polish to me Feb 27 16:35:14 ah, sean's Feb 27 16:37:34 SpeedEvil: just second hit on google, so take with a grain of salt: http://www.houseofnames.com/xq/asp.fc/qx/pultz-family-crest.htm Feb 27 16:41:42 Interesting. Feb 27 16:42:44 for starters, reply from e28 would be neat Feb 27 16:53:32 mickeyl: ping? Feb 27 16:54:49 * koen made steak a la robtaylor yesterday Feb 27 16:55:04 koen: bloody-as-hell? :) Feb 27 16:55:08 yep Feb 27 16:55:15 heh :) Feb 27 16:55:37 right, i'm going to do some LTTng profileing of udev and hal Feb 27 16:55:55 isn't that RP-ware on arm as well? Feb 27 16:56:03 i've ben thinking about what we were discussing re cutting down on probing Feb 27 16:56:28 koen: LTTng? yep, i've got some kernels built with it for my N800 Feb 27 16:59:20 koen: wish i had a 2410 to prfile on. something that show would show up problems much more clearly :) Feb 27 17:00:42 robtaylor: because it lacks vfp? Feb 27 17:01:14 koen: no cos its memory bandwidth sucks Feb 27 17:01:24 ah, right Feb 27 17:01:35 buz: did you read what I said an hour or 2 before? Feb 27 17:01:36 s/show/slow Feb 27 17:02:50 robtaylor: the 2410 doesn't support a 32bit 200MHz bus? Feb 27 17:05:05 koen: don't know why its slow, just that a 200MHz 2410 is at least twice as slow than a 200Mhx OMA Feb 27 17:05:31 buz: ? Feb 27 17:05:58 robtaylor: armv5 has an insanely optimized memcpy in the kernel and glibc Feb 27 17:06:15 koen: 2410 is v4? Feb 27 17:06:20 yes Feb 27 17:06:24 v4t to be exact Feb 27 17:06:26 ah Feb 27 17:07:48 robtaylor: fingers crossed for a armv5 cpu in phase 2 :) Feb 27 17:08:35 Does armv5 use more power? Feb 27 17:08:35 yeah, something with a bit more oomph would be good Feb 27 17:08:35 Specifically in the low power modes. Feb 27 17:08:40 SpeedEvil: no, less, i think Feb 27 17:08:40 koen: omap2430? i.mx? Feb 27 17:08:46 :) Feb 27 17:08:57 SpeedEvil: depends a lot on trhe implementation Feb 27 17:09:23 Yeah - the '33mW' of the 'slow mode' will be quite a lot higher, due to RAM power use, for ex. Feb 27 17:09:23 hrw: omap would give us a dsp, but the dsp tools aren't really open Feb 27 17:09:46 and texas instruments code is really ugly Feb 27 17:09:48 koen: well, they are usable though Feb 27 17:09:54 arm926ej-s is armv5, too, and not that much better than the arm920t Feb 27 17:10:01 * nbd shudders at the thought of the TI AR7 SoC support code Feb 27 17:10:11 koen: but i think dsps are apof limited use Feb 27 17:10:17 they are Feb 27 17:11:27 on the 770, it was only really useful for video playback, for ausio any gains were lost on the context switching on the mailbox Feb 27 17:11:33 *audio Feb 27 17:11:49 right Feb 27 17:11:49 does an arm chip run it's basic commands as single-cycle instructions?... Feb 27 17:12:01 I never understood why nokia decoded audio and video on the dsp Feb 27 17:12:04 its notable on tha N800 most media pipelines are all on the arm core Feb 27 17:12:04 Depends how stupid it is. A little fast RISC thingy with access to main memory and peripherals would be quite good. Feb 27 17:12:24 As you could shut down the main CPU. Feb 27 17:12:24 But... Feb 27 17:12:43 koen: well, they wouldn't have been able to do mpeg2 playback on the omap without dsp Feb 27 17:13:17 LuitvD: most non-memory instructions execute single-cycle, except for multiplies for example Feb 27 17:13:20 robtaylor: right, but the cpu is being idle while the dsp is at a constant 100% Feb 27 17:13:32 one of the nokia kernel guys did some interesting work on ways to talk to other cores, but its kinda been orphaned now Feb 27 17:13:39 vmaster: armv5e fastmult is singe cycle? Feb 27 17:13:55 hi Feb 27 17:15:11 robtaylor: philips has a 'sea of dsp' project which is like openmosix for dsp Feb 27 17:15:40 if the main dsp isn't beefy enough it would offload cycle to the cpu or other dsps Feb 27 17:15:42 pretty neat Feb 27 17:18:04 dspfs Feb 27 17:18:21 http://linux.omap.com/pipermail/linux-omap-open-source/2006-September/007921.html Feb 27 17:18:26 koen: yeah, the dsp multiplies can execute in a single cycle in most cases Feb 27 17:19:47 robtaylor: yeah, sort of like dspfs Feb 27 17:20:31 two splits in 10 minutes? Feb 27 17:21:04 LuitvD: it's called splitnode for a reason Feb 27 17:21:24 koen: haven't seen two splits occur in 10 minutes... Feb 27 17:25:02 lol, nearly my whole IRC screen full of "has joined" and "has quit" messages :D Feb 27 17:25:27 sterling isn't that stable lately... Feb 27 17:53:07 Phase 1+ June - Hardware Refresh - faster CPU to allow alpha blend UI Feb 27 17:53:07 etc. The #1 "request" i.e. WiFi - will be in the refresh hardware. Feb 27 17:53:12 w000t Feb 27 17:54:47 take that iphone Feb 27 17:55:01 twice the pixel, hundred times the apps Feb 27 17:55:03 buz: where did you read that? Feb 27 17:55:10 mailinglist Feb 27 17:55:33 OpenMoko workshop at ETel Feb 27 17:55:33 From: Feb 27 17:55:33 "adrian cockcroft" Feb 27 17:55:39 anyone have experience running openmoko on a universal? Feb 27 17:55:55 buz: ignore that message Feb 27 17:56:15 oh come on i still have some drool left Feb 27 17:56:23 buz: sean only said "faster cpu" and "the thing everyine is asking for" Feb 27 17:56:38 he never said wifi Feb 27 17:57:00 I'd doubt that wifi is that simple to add Feb 27 17:57:09 128mb flash instead of 64 maybe? Feb 27 17:57:15 or a cam Feb 27 17:57:17 cm: i think csr has combo chips Feb 27 17:57:22 or small keyboard Feb 27 17:57:35 by far number one request was wifi i believe Feb 27 17:57:37 or putting "gnu" in the name Feb 27 17:57:44 hehe Feb 27 17:57:58 * stefan_schmidt prefers facts over rumors. Feb 27 17:57:59 cam would probably be simpler than wifi yes Feb 27 17:58:13 I wouldn't hold my breath for wifi Feb 27 17:58:26 this is why rumours are deadly Feb 27 17:58:35 either give people facts or shut up Feb 27 17:58:57 buz: It creates buzz ;) Feb 27 17:59:06 so tell mr cockcroft to shut up Feb 27 17:59:27 the 512MB sd card wasn't for sure as well Feb 27 17:59:42 who cares for the card Feb 27 17:59:47 € Well - it's not a large investment. Feb 27 17:59:49 you can get 1G for like 8EUR now Feb 27 17:59:59 The card is more important in phase 2 Feb 27 18:00:00 it shows that http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2007-February/003833.html is full of errors Feb 27 18:00:24 Right now it might as well ship with no card, we'll all buy one anyway if we need it Feb 27 18:00:25 so going OMG WIFI!!! is a bit naive Feb 27 18:00:37 CM: exactly Feb 27 18:01:01 I've wondered about ripping out the BT module, and jamming in a wifi one. Feb 27 18:01:14 i've got a USB stick that looks around the same size - sans connector/case. Feb 27 18:01:16 But if it's to be used by the average consumer, they just want to be able to put music on it Feb 27 18:01:30 cm: even most music phones dont ship with cards Feb 27 18:01:39 koen: what's a feed eader? :P Feb 27 18:01:45 buz: True, or a 64mb one Feb 27 18:01:49 koen: yeah... it's naive... but it's hope :) Feb 27 18:01:53 which is none in my view Feb 27 18:02:13 if this is a cam, sean shouldnt have told us about Feb 27 18:02:23 there were actually people who were decidedly against cam Feb 27 18:02:26 buz: you said that the e2862 would be about 250$? Feb 27 18:02:35 2831 i thnk Feb 27 18:02:40 hmm Feb 27 18:02:49 * LuitvD looks for the email that mentioned it Feb 27 18:02:50 :) Feb 27 18:03:00 I guess we'll see soon. Maybe they're still negotiating some parts Feb 27 18:03:03 heard anything from e28? Feb 27 18:03:26 nope Feb 27 18:03:28 * CM waits for an official announcement instead of rumor mails Feb 27 18:03:35 and IF it is a cam, better make it 2mp+ Feb 27 18:03:40 everything else is worse than useless Feb 27 18:03:51 CM: I'll wait for the device to get delivered to my home :) Feb 27 18:03:52 CM: once the mail is recieved, it is an official announcement Feb 27 18:04:03 koen: :P Feb 27 18:04:08 CM: only when the mail comes from some official source Feb 27 18:04:13 CM: oh wait... is that about e28 or neo? Feb 27 18:04:16 :P Feb 27 18:04:17 sorry Feb 27 18:04:27 oh wrong nick Feb 27 18:04:40 lol Feb 27 18:04:42 LuitvD: I meant the neo 1.5 rumors, but I did read your pastebin mail before so I know what you mean too Feb 27 18:04:44 my bad Feb 27 18:05:04 confusion all around :) Feb 27 18:05:21 i wonderif one could add sliding keyboard DIY Feb 27 18:05:31 to what device? Feb 27 18:05:34 neo1 Feb 27 18:05:35 Sure. Feb 27 18:05:42 You can do whatever you have the skills for. Feb 27 18:05:46 buz: I'd rather add that tiny bt keyboard and some clever carrying thing for it Feb 27 18:05:48 can you buy sliding keyboards Feb 27 18:06:01 folding keyboards look weird Feb 27 18:06:04 Probably not of a suitable size, you'll need to make it. Feb 27 18:06:16 buz: all you'll practically need is a USB connection and a power source... and some replacement backplate Feb 27 18:06:25 could even go bluetooth Feb 27 18:06:31 kinda stupid, but hey Feb 27 18:06:36 one less wire Feb 27 18:06:47 Or even use a speak-and-spell, and voice recognition. Feb 27 18:06:51 kind of difficult, holding both the neo and a BT keyboard in two hands Feb 27 18:06:58 yeah thats why i want sliding Feb 27 18:07:02 lol Feb 27 18:07:04 or clamshell Feb 27 18:07:13 clip-on bluetooth/usb Feb 27 18:07:42 (some new smartphones have some sort of clip-on keyboard ... clicking into some docking-station-like connector Feb 27 18:07:58 mhh which ones Feb 27 18:08:02 bt-click-on wouldn't need that) Feb 27 18:08:12 never seen that (well excep that weird htc prototype) Feb 27 18:08:12 I think some new nokia's Feb 27 18:08:24 i generally follow nokia quite closely Feb 27 18:08:25 BT means battery + volume + ... Feb 27 18:08:29 dont think i ever saw something like that Feb 27 18:09:32 since my p900 works again, i can wait some more for definitive info ;) Feb 27 18:10:01 omg, I'd love to have that samsung-prada phone run moko :) Feb 27 18:10:22 (even more expensive/less open device) Feb 27 18:10:49 thats lg Feb 27 18:10:51 and no vga Feb 27 18:11:11 lg? Feb 27 18:11:15 i think Feb 27 18:11:20 not samsung iirc Feb 27 18:11:22 that prada thing is samsung Feb 27 18:11:36 its lg prada :) Feb 27 18:11:36 mhh Feb 27 18:12:02 http://www.pradaphonebylg.com/ Feb 27 18:12:07 hmmz Feb 27 18:12:07 doesnt get any clearer than that Feb 27 18:12:21 now that meizu m8... Feb 27 18:12:40 (its inevitable, whenever iphone comes up, m8 must come up too ;) Feb 27 18:12:42 buz: I confused that prada phone with this: http://www.mobile-review.com/exhibition/image/2007/3gsm/samsung/f700-4.jpg Feb 27 18:12:43 :P Feb 27 18:12:48 that one is nice :) Feb 27 18:13:02 thats a dumb phone Feb 27 18:13:09 not even symbian or something afaik Feb 27 18:13:19 (possibly it's a dumbed down winmobile though) Feb 27 18:13:33 yeah... Feb 27 18:13:44 i might live with symbian Feb 27 18:13:44 that samsung phone runs winmobile Feb 27 18:13:52 but not with samsung proprietary weirdness Feb 27 18:14:08 DAMN, that prada thing only has an 800mAh battery... Feb 27 18:14:25 that's sad :P Feb 27 18:14:38 battery alone would make a case for a bigger neo back Feb 27 18:14:44 :P Feb 27 18:14:55 could we wire two blc in parallel? Feb 27 18:15:36 to get like 2400mah Feb 27 18:16:07 buz: yes - you shouldn't. Feb 27 18:16:13 You need to add protection. Feb 27 18:16:25 LuitvD[away]: And from the look of the website - a mono display. Feb 27 18:16:44 SpeedEvil: if that is mono, you're colorblind Feb 27 18:17:02 I was meaning the http://www.pradaphonebylg.com/ site Feb 27 18:17:25 Apparently, it's black and white, and makes you thin. Feb 27 18:17:37 will sell by the containers then Feb 27 18:20:37 * buz want completely black neo Feb 27 18:21:22 That'll have excellent battery life. Feb 27 18:21:29 As the backlight uses lots. Feb 27 18:22:23 just remove the lcd, backlight and gsm radio Feb 27 18:22:30 much better battery life Feb 27 18:23:14 i could see a phone without lcd Feb 27 18:23:19 without gsm is kinda hard Feb 27 18:23:32 (there ARE cellphone without display) Feb 27 18:24:01 Yeah - me too. Feb 27 18:24:12 Voice interface - done well. Feb 27 18:24:21 koen: e-ink/e-paper, much better... Feb 27 18:24:25 And without the display, you can go for much larger buttons. Feb 27 18:24:35 oled Feb 27 18:24:41 buz: no, not oled Feb 27 18:24:43 e-ink Feb 27 18:24:44 oled uses lots of power when on. Feb 27 18:24:51 good luck scrolling with e-ink Feb 27 18:24:53 moto has an e-ink phone Feb 27 18:25:01 Though it can do one or two pixels on very cheaply. Feb 27 18:25:02 koen: they claim they have Feb 27 18:25:06 i dont think they actually ship it Feb 27 18:25:14 koen: I'm curious to know why they don't have more Feb 27 18:25:15 buz: the refresh-rate of e-paper/e-ink is great... actually... Feb 27 18:25:29 cause thre is no color eink right now Feb 27 18:25:36 :) Feb 27 18:25:41 who needs that? Feb 27 18:25:42 There are prototypes. Feb 27 18:25:46 grayscale ftw! Feb 27 18:25:46 numbers of 0.5s being thrown around dont seem that great to me Feb 27 18:25:47 e-ink rocks Feb 27 18:25:53 Which print filters over the e-ink balls. Feb 27 18:25:54 * koen just loves the illiad Feb 27 18:26:31 how ill is it? :P Feb 27 18:26:34 isn't it iliad? Feb 27 18:27:19 i wonder what hostname my neo will have Feb 27 18:27:33 trinity or morpheus maybe Feb 27 18:27:39 meh, be original Feb 27 18:27:46 'neo' Feb 27 18:27:48 * Stephmw hides Feb 27 18:27:51 anyone here run openmoko on HTC Universal? Feb 27 18:27:52 heheheh Feb 27 18:28:01 Stephmw: 'smith' Feb 27 18:28:05 * buz uses gps broadcast from Step Feb 27 18:28:08 to find him Feb 27 18:28:21 mhh somehow that tab completion doesnt work Feb 27 18:28:27 lol Feb 27 18:28:37 bwahaha Feb 27 18:29:10 merovingian Feb 27 18:29:20 (had the hottest chicks by far) Feb 27 18:30:10 * LuitvD tries to get his robot running Feb 27 18:30:43 smith aint half bad Feb 27 18:30:49 (after all, i study economics ;) Feb 27 18:31:16 a friend of mine atually names his hosts after famous economists Feb 27 18:31:32 buz: maybe call it "bananaphone" ? Feb 27 18:31:53 (type of phone neo uses all the time) Feb 27 18:34:21 maybe call it aragorn, as it shall lead us to victory over the dark forces from redmond Feb 27 18:34:33 counter Feb 27 18:34:34 P0: a week, a day 16:50:48 (-0.298 - 8.702 days); P1: 22.702 - 32.702; P2: 185.702 - 215.702 (long: "/msg aloril counter?") (415) Feb 27 18:36:49 or s/LCD/HMD/ ;-) Feb 27 18:41:21 the HTC Advantage looks pretty spiffy Feb 27 18:41:26 would be awesome to get openmoko on it Feb 27 18:43:00 huge device Feb 27 18:46:52 * LuitvD nearly shorts out his robot... again Feb 27 18:47:21 TheKarn, I've been running gpe on my universal... haven't got round to openmoko yet Feb 27 18:49:31 what robot is that anyway Feb 27 18:49:33 as soon as this robot is done, I'll be working on openmoko some more I guess :) Feb 27 18:49:43 does it bring beer? Feb 27 18:49:55 buz: I'm building a robot for some school project... it balances on 2 weels... at least, it's supposed to Feb 27 18:50:03 oh segway Feb 27 18:50:12 got to get him to do that again in 2 days, for the presentation... Feb 27 18:50:17 hope it won't let me down... Feb 27 18:50:25 i need to hand in a term paper tomorrow Feb 27 18:50:29 right now the ref-resistor is red-hot :) Feb 27 18:50:37 but one of the idiots in my group wont submit his sources Feb 27 18:50:43 (it's a 10W resistor though...) Feb 27 18:50:52 counter Feb 27 18:50:52 P0: a week, a day 16:34:29 (-0.309 - 8.691 days); P1: 22.691 - 32.691; P2: 185.691 - 215.691 (long: "/msg aloril counter?") (416) Feb 27 18:50:57 counter Feb 27 18:50:57 P0: a week, a day 16:34:24 (-0.309 - 8.691 days); P1: 22.691 - 32.691; P2: 185.691 - 215.691 (long: "/msg aloril counter?") (417) Feb 27 18:50:59 lol Feb 27 18:51:12 aloril: why don't you let it /msg... Feb 27 18:51:14 you two testing aloril's RTC? Feb 27 18:51:27 Stephmw: just me testing :) Feb 27 18:51:39 Heh, NTPoIRC Feb 27 18:51:44 hahah Feb 27 18:51:59 got DCF here... Feb 27 18:52:06 don't need any NTP Feb 27 18:52:28 the neo absolutely needs an atomic time source Feb 27 18:52:29 counter Feb 27 18:52:29 P0: a week, a day 16:32:52 (-0.311 - 8.689 days); P1: 22.689 - 32.689; P2: 185.689 - 215.689 (long: "/msg aloril counter?") (418) Feb 27 18:52:34 (DCF is cool :)) Feb 27 18:52:39 mickeyl: To replace the openmoko-standard theme with openmoko-standard-qvga we just need to replace all file in /usr/share/themes/openmko-standard with the new one from bug 197? Feb 27 18:52:40 buz: polonium? Feb 27 18:52:50 i think cesium is standard Feb 27 18:52:55 LuitvD: Oh man, you're now my new time resources. :) Feb 27 18:53:09 high-rez: what? Feb 27 18:53:10 :P Feb 27 18:53:24 buz: but polonium is more likely to prevent you flying :D Feb 27 18:53:33 loll Feb 27 18:53:40 What frequency is DCF on ? Feb 27 18:54:14 high-rez: I've got no idea... gotta look that up... Feb 27 18:54:44 77 something. probably MHz ;) Feb 27 18:54:47 I've always wanted to setup my own stratum1. Feb 27 18:54:54 66 I guess... Feb 27 18:55:18 It's called DCF77 for a reason. ;o) Feb 27 18:55:20 Elrond: no you're right... DCF77 Feb 27 18:55:22 hehehe Feb 27 18:55:30 thought it was called DCF66 somehow... Feb 27 18:55:33 stupid me Feb 27 18:55:34 ... or I'm completely on the wrong trip. ;) Feb 27 18:55:39 mhh 185g is quite a lot Feb 27 18:55:53 Elrond: lol, could be.. Feb 27 18:56:06 LuitvD - So is it MHz? Feb 27 18:56:20 nope Feb 27 18:56:25 77,5KHz Feb 27 18:56:29 Ahh. Feb 27 18:56:45 :P Feb 27 18:57:03 77MHz is shortwave... never gets that far... Feb 27 18:57:08 Should have guessed... it's so old... in those days people did not use MHz. ;o) Feb 27 18:57:16 Right. Feb 27 18:57:30 you can't carry MHz's over half of europe :) Feb 27 18:57:36 you can with KHz's Feb 27 18:57:43 openmoko: 03mickey * r1150 10/trunk/oe/conf/distro/openmoko.conf: oe/conf/distro/openmoko.conf: merge CVS_TARBALL_PATCH from Rod Whitby. closes #214 Feb 27 18:58:33 Yeah. Feb 27 18:58:37 Elrond: though the fact that sending one date-time-cycle proves the system is quite old :P Feb 27 18:59:13 time/date info is sent in 1sec bits, some 40 bits Feb 27 18:59:19 stefan_schmidt: yes, that should be it. I'll merge the patch hopefully soon and will add an .ipk for openmoko-theme-qvga Feb 27 18:59:25 well Feb 27 18:59:31 s/.ipk/.bb/ Feb 27 18:59:41 to OE or mokosvn? Feb 27 19:00:06 both :) Feb 27 19:00:10 koen: it's not really useful for gta01 right? Feb 27 19:00:20 so it should be a different device? Feb 27 19:00:43 or doesn't OE really care about that? Feb 27 19:00:48 it doesn't Feb 27 19:00:53 mickeyl: hmm, ok. This does not work here on E680. But perhaps we do something wrong. Feb 27 19:00:55 okay :) Feb 27 19:01:02 stefan_schmidt: what exactly is the behaviour you see? Feb 27 19:01:09 try starting a gtk program on command line Feb 27 19:01:17 mickeyl: We try further. Keep you informed. Feb 27 19:01:23 and see whether the gtkrc parser puts out bogus stuff Feb 27 19:01:28 ok, crossing fingers Feb 27 19:01:35 mickeyl: No input neither ts nor usbnet Feb 27 19:01:42 eek Feb 27 19:01:42 nasty Feb 27 19:01:43 mickeyl: starting from cmdline needs some care Feb 27 19:01:52 mickeyl: you need to have the dbus ENV vards Feb 27 19:01:58 -d Feb 27 19:02:50 sounds like farts... pronounced with a paralized toungue... Feb 27 19:03:00 nvm... :) Feb 27 19:03:02 * stefan_schmidt moves home now. cu later Feb 27 19:03:18 cu Feb 27 19:05:15 mickeyl: has anyone done an openmoko vmware image yet? Feb 27 19:05:49 build-environ type thing? Feb 27 19:05:50 robtaylor: to my knowledge, no. [g2] was planning to do that, but i didn't see anything yet Feb 27 19:06:10 mickeyl: ok, i've been taking a look at it too Feb 27 19:06:17 we need an emulator for vmware first Feb 27 19:06:25 mickeyl: i guess it should use the openmoko branch rather than .dev Feb 27 19:06:48 robtaylor: for now that's the only thing i can guarantee to work(ish) ;) Feb 27 19:06:56 koen: i'm talking about a way to quicly try out the development environment Feb 27 19:07:00 i'm still a bit away from maintaining OM in OE Feb 27 19:07:12 :S Feb 27 19:07:17 robtaylor: I'm just being annoying, since vmware is an emulator Feb 27 19:07:32 koen: oh, ok :P Feb 27 19:07:39 mickeyl: actually openmoko recipes have less bugs in OE than in svn Feb 27 19:07:58 mickeyl: as mokomakefile makes clear Feb 27 19:08:40 koen: yeah, but he'll still need a 'stable' branch in OE proper Feb 27 19:08:49 * LuitvD really wants to contribute in getting openmoko on at least one non-FIC product... Feb 27 19:09:22 should I, or shouldn't I buy that e2881? Feb 27 19:09:46 LuitvD: is it availiable? Feb 27 19:09:58 robtaylor: not sure... Feb 27 19:10:06 LuitvD: did you "/msg aloril counter" or "/msg aloril counter?" Feb 27 19:10:28 robtaylor: but I can always get it via someone who lives in hongkong Feb 27 19:10:39 robtaylor: ohm mail! Feb 27 19:10:43 aloril2: I mean disable the counter on this channel... Feb 27 19:10:50 koen: ooh! Feb 27 19:10:51 now I have to update procmail... Feb 27 19:12:48 robtaylor: so it's available to me :) Feb 27 19:13:27 koen: hmm, i'm gonna need a while to parse that one, i think :) Feb 27 19:13:36 LuitvD: well, why not? :) Feb 27 19:13:48 robtaylor: it sums the issues pretty well Feb 27 19:14:03 robtaylor: it's only missing gsm and bt headset issues Feb 27 19:14:08 koen: yeah, i need to split it down a bit Feb 27 19:14:22 yeah, i'm not really sure where audio fits in exactaly Feb 27 19:14:30 its a very interesting problem domain Feb 27 19:14:40 sterling is fucked up lately... Feb 27 19:15:12 guess this is the fourth split today... Feb 27 19:16:17 * LuitvD stops working on his robot, before he really damages it... Feb 27 19:19:10 welcome back y'all :P Feb 27 19:31:07 robtaylor: I don't think openmoko needs a stable branch right now Feb 27 19:31:21 robtaylor: after p1, yes, but not at this moment Feb 27 19:32:17 koen: well, i think mickeyl would disagree Feb 27 19:32:35 koen: the problem is .dev changes too quickly, so you waste development time Feb 27 19:32:53 you waste time either way Feb 27 19:33:09 dunno which one wasts less Feb 27 19:33:15 koen: yes, but with a branch you get to choose when you wate development time Feb 27 19:33:54 but it can't garantee it wastes less Feb 27 19:34:25 koen: no, it probably doesnt waste less time, but being able to make teh decision when to deal with new changes is very important Feb 27 19:34:40 esp on tight deadlines Feb 27 19:34:57 robtaylor, you had a haircut for fosdem? :) Feb 27 19:35:19 robtaylor: the fact is that I fixed a shitload of bugs which still aren't in svn, but are in OE Feb 27 19:35:21 pvanhoof: yeah :) i'm trying to make a habit of having regular haricuts now :) Feb 27 19:35:26 :) Feb 27 19:35:37 no way, you where just trying to score some Belgian girls Feb 27 19:35:37 robtaylor: which means using svn *right now* is wasting dev time Feb 27 19:35:48 koen: yeah, i hope mickeyl has the time to check it out really soon Feb 27 19:36:00 pvanhoof: would *I* do a thing like that? ;) Feb 27 19:36:12 lol Feb 27 19:36:13 nope, but you might try Feb 27 19:36:16 heh Feb 27 19:36:18 robtaylor: the trouble is that the oe-savvy devs in FIC only have time to work on the framework Feb 27 19:37:05 what was that thingy Duke Nukem always said about aliens trying to steal our chicks Feb 27 19:37:24 time to kick ass and chew bubble gum? Feb 27 19:37:49 robtaylor, don't forget: Nobody steals our chicks... and lives Feb 27 19:37:55 pvanhoof: heh :) Feb 27 19:38:13 pvanhoof: didn't get to talk much. did you have a good FOSDEM? Feb 27 19:38:24 yeah, but extremely compressed Feb 27 19:38:44 it wasn't just Macslows fault that we didn't meet (he wrote something about it in his blog) Feb 27 19:38:48 i think next year it should be a week long ;) Feb 27 19:39:00 I was really busy talking with IMAP guys, nokians, etc etc Feb 27 19:39:03 oi Feb 27 19:39:21 and finish with a rum session Feb 27 19:39:22 oh, right, meeting with Koen of course too. Though that was a short meeting Feb 27 19:39:35 :) Feb 27 19:39:38 :) Feb 27 19:39:41 haha, i thought this was #maemo by looking at the nicks :) Feb 27 19:40:03 openmoko: 03werner * r1151 10/trunk/src/target/u-boot/patches/uboot-dfu.patch: Feb 27 19:40:03 openmoko: drivers/usbdfu.c (get_partition_nand): mtdparts_init indicates failure with Feb 27 19:40:03 openmoko: non-zero return code, not just negative Feb 27 19:40:03 openmoko: drivers/usbdfu.c (get_partition_nand): check that "devices" is non-empty before Feb 27 19:40:03 openmoko: using its first element Feb 27 19:40:07 maemo, openmoko, what's the difference Feb 27 19:40:14 oh right, some of the hardware Feb 27 19:40:17 moko is actually opensource ;) Feb 27 19:40:33 hardware, nobody cares about hardware :), software .. however! Feb 27 19:40:42 *lightbulb* Feb 27 19:40:43 i dont have a Neo yet Feb 27 19:40:51 don't blame me, it's a hardware problem etc etc Feb 27 19:41:00 ;) Feb 27 19:41:06 * koen searches for the address and the gpl offer Feb 27 19:41:22 koen: ah. well remembered Feb 27 19:42:06 koen, t-dose might not be ready for it yet .. but they should keep the doors open for week-long conferences imo :) Feb 27 19:42:07 tigert - They're fixing the power issues, I presume ;) Feb 27 19:42:16 robtaylor: http://www.bleb.org/software/n800/os2007-src/ Feb 27 19:42:42 in the end, it's not really doable to do both social networking and attending *some* talks on two days Feb 27 19:42:59 koen: ooh, well the code is either gonna be in xserver or tslib, i guess Feb 27 19:44:32 tslib (0.1.1-6) unstable; urgency=low Feb 27 19:44:32 * Don't ship pointercal files anymore; they've moved to xorg-server. Feb 27 19:44:32 * Force B-D on a fixed l-k-h. Feb 27 19:44:33 -- Daniel Stone Tue, 25 Apr 2006 19:50:26 +0000 Feb 27 19:45:23 gpl offer? Feb 27 19:45:25 B-D? on a *fixed* l-k-h??? Feb 27 19:45:28 * noidd switches context Feb 27 19:45:31 greetings y'all Feb 27 19:45:36 * Stephmw blows up from the lack of context Feb 27 19:45:45 koen: interesting comment in pressure.c > Feb 27 19:45:45 /* we occasionally get stray thumb presses with pressure 3, f.e. */ Feb 27 19:45:55 Stephmw: I guess build-dep Feb 27 19:46:08 koen: ooh Feb 27 19:46:17 robtaylor: yeah, it seems the replaced the pressure module Feb 27 19:46:33 downloading all 28 megs of xorg-xserver..... Feb 27 19:46:33 koen: that type of shorthand should be discouraged - it doesn't improve anything :( Feb 27 19:48:02 pvanhoof: i agree. there were at least 10 talks that I wanted to attend, but all I managed was one :/ Feb 27 19:48:10 it was super-crazy this year Feb 27 19:48:17 should be bumped to at least 4 days Feb 27 19:48:18 jep Feb 27 19:48:49 I'm jelous of the conference peeps Feb 27 19:48:56 I don't even have a valid passport anyone. Feb 27 19:49:09 I can't even get back to my country of citizenship if I need to :-P Feb 27 19:49:34 noidd, I don't think Belgium doesn't disallow travelers from a lot countries Feb 27 19:49:39 oh isee :) Feb 27 19:49:42 mickeyl: agreed! Feb 27 19:50:01 robtaylor: * Always send button 1, instead of button 8, for thumb events. Feb 27 19:50:06 for example, I don't think it would be a big problem for an Iranian to get in (as a traveler) Feb 27 19:51:05 oh, robtaylor. Wont that be a problem for some folks for the next guadec? Feb 27 19:52:55 mickeyl: http://rafb.net/p/vuEQfZ77.html Feb 27 19:52:57 robtaylor: http://rafb.net/p/vuEQfZ77.html Feb 27 19:53:09 lol Feb 27 19:54:31 oh it _is_ pressure based after all? Feb 27 19:54:35 hmm Feb 27 19:55:06 if (event.pressure) { Feb 27 19:55:07 if (event.pressure > pi->dixdev->touchscreen->button_threshold) Feb 27 19:55:07 flags = KD_BUTTON_8; Feb 27 19:55:07 else Feb 27 19:55:07 flags = KD_BUTTON_1; Feb 27 19:55:16 interesting Feb 27 19:56:17 * the following sequence: pen down, thumb down, thumb up, pen down, Feb 27 19:56:17 * thumb up. so we need to filter the first n events to see whether Feb 27 19:56:21 even more interesting :P Feb 27 19:56:57 don't really get that sequence... Feb 27 19:57:05 is pressure literal pressure in this context of amount of surface area which now has pressure Feb 27 19:57:09 if you get what i mean Feb 27 19:57:28 LuitvD: it detect "pendown" or "thumbdown", and sometimes you get both Feb 27 19:57:32 detects* Feb 27 19:58:06 actually - that makes sense if you think of it in terms of area in contact Feb 27 19:58:08 koen: thumb up is mentioned twice... Feb 27 19:58:11 yea i guess pressure in this context is to do with the current flow? Feb 27 19:58:31 narrow down, wide down, wide up changes to narrow down Feb 27 19:58:31 koen: and I don't see any "pen up" in that sequence... Feb 27 19:58:41 larger surface area->greater current flow between the planes? Feb 27 19:58:41 right Feb 27 19:58:46 you see the problem? Feb 27 19:58:50 thats how I would view it Feb 27 19:59:04 yeah, hello random signal emmissions Feb 27 19:59:21 you want almost a de-bouce for your X server - heh Feb 27 19:59:33 like de-bouncing a switch Feb 27 20:00:42 openmoko: 03rwhitby * r24 10mokomakefile/trunk/patches/openmoko-HEAD/ (series tarball-stash.patch): Removed the tarball-stash patch, as it has been applied in the official OpenMoko SVN repo. Feb 27 20:05:11 openmoko: 03werner * r1152 10/trunk/src/host/dfu-util/src/ (main.c sam7dfu.c): Feb 27 20:05:11 openmoko: sam7dfu.c (sam7dfu_do_upload, sam7dfu_do_dnload): make error handling more Feb 27 20:05:11 openmoko: consistent by printing errors also if system calls fail Feb 27 20:05:11 openmoko: main.c (main): exit with non-zero exit status if sam7dfu_do_upload or Feb 27 20:05:11 openmoko: sam7dfu_do_dnload fail Feb 27 20:23:04 ~change 100 SEK to KZT Feb 27 20:23:11 100.00 Krona (SEK) makes 1,771.66 Tenge (KZT) (from http://www.xe.com/) Feb 27 20:24:28 CM: what state uses KZT as currency? Feb 27 20:24:38 Kazakhstan Feb 27 20:24:43 Have a friend there :) Feb 27 20:24:50 ah :) Feb 27 20:25:47 I need help! i want ideas on legal ways to save the $350 from now to March 11th! Feb 27 20:26:07 Lars_G: stop eating? Feb 27 20:26:11 I would rent my body, but it's not legal. Feb 27 20:26:42 Hmm two weeks without food? might work. though I don't spend $175 a week in food. Feb 27 20:26:52 rob somebody? Feb 27 20:27:01 mxn: legal? Feb 27 20:27:02 nto legal Feb 27 20:27:04 or make weird photos and blackmail Feb 27 20:27:10 oh Feb 27 20:27:13 that makes things harder Feb 27 20:27:17 yeah Feb 27 20:27:23 Lars_G: Perhaps you have luck and it comes later. :) Feb 27 20:27:28 it's only illegal if you get caught Feb 27 20:27:35 heh Feb 27 20:27:35 stefan_schmidt: that's not luck! Feb 27 20:27:40 Do like all retired people, collect and recycle cans and bottles ;) Feb 27 20:27:47 hrm Feb 27 20:27:50 hmmm recycling cans.... Feb 27 20:27:51 might work Feb 27 20:27:54 Lars_G, are you any good at reverse engineering? Feb 27 20:28:03 i could subcontract you ;> Feb 27 20:28:17 mxn: No, I'm down there at between "learning" and "passable" Feb 27 20:29:17 win32 programming? Feb 27 20:29:32 only very little work to do there Feb 27 20:30:03 win32? never! Feb 27 20:30:08 I only code for *nix Feb 27 20:30:24 sometimes, I do cross platform apps that will work in windows. but only sometimes Feb 27 20:30:51 same here, i had to learn some winapi stuff for this project, but it's so demotivating/boring :/ Feb 27 20:31:05 Nah I don't do WinAPI Feb 27 20:31:17 either J2SE, or now some c++ / Qt Feb 27 20:31:29 you'll have to find some other way to earn the money then ;) Feb 27 20:31:32 WinAPI makes me develope blisters Feb 27 20:31:48 ooor.. i subcontract you, and you find somebody else to subcontract ;P Feb 27 20:31:48 lars_g but openmoko uses gtk Feb 27 20:31:59 Lars_G: if you really need cash you should look for a job. Feb 27 20:31:59 woglinde: I don't mind that Feb 27 20:32:06 aevin: I have a job Feb 27 20:32:11 and I can't take a second right now. Feb 27 20:34:44 okay, then the only solution is to invest your whole next salary into lottery tickets and hope for 1st prize. Feb 27 20:34:50 lol Feb 27 20:35:25 buy some fic stocks Feb 27 20:35:26 hahahah Feb 27 20:35:56 I wonder how hard it'll be to port phoneme to openmoko Feb 27 20:36:08 lars_g not so much Feb 27 20:36:24 but there are some problems with gtk as graphical backend Feb 27 20:36:30 woglinde: yeah, it already has gtk bindings right? Feb 27 20:36:36 yeah some Feb 27 20:37:18 take look here -> http://forums.java.net/jive/thread.jspa?messageID=197519 Feb 27 20:37:28 I will. thanks Feb 27 20:38:34 I used to dream about porting phoneme to PalmOS but it'd be a lot of hell Feb 27 20:38:46 lol Feb 27 20:38:59 cou cant stand this pain I guess Feb 27 20:39:20 what's phoneme? Feb 27 20:39:33 LuitvD: Open source J2ME vm from sun Feb 27 20:39:42 gpl java for phones and stuff Feb 27 20:39:58 some build packages for n770 already Feb 27 20:39:59 ah... useless :P Feb 27 20:40:02 no Feb 27 20:40:10 to me it is :P Feb 27 20:40:10 you can play the java games than Feb 27 20:40:17 who wants java games :P Feb 27 20:40:23 on the moko? Feb 27 20:40:25 I'm sure I don't... Feb 27 20:40:30 * LuitvD prefers flash Feb 27 20:40:36 lol Feb 27 20:40:44 (which is impossible, i know) Feb 27 20:40:45 but there is no opensource flash yet Feb 27 20:41:28 there is open source flash. just it's not complete Feb 27 20:41:34 maybe you can convince macrobe to compile linux flash for arm Feb 27 20:41:44 hm no its adobe now Feb 27 20:41:54 buz: macrobe? Feb 27 20:41:55 :P Feb 27 20:42:10 buz: it ain't macromedia anymore... Feb 27 20:42:13 evil company + evil company = very evil company Feb 27 20:42:17 macromedia adobe Feb 27 20:42:54 * LuitvD launches his hand towards his head Feb 27 20:43:00 LOOOL Feb 27 20:47:47 shouldnt give that much work for them really Feb 27 21:15:49 counter Feb 27 21:15:49 P0: a week, a day 14:09:32 (-0.410 - 8.590 days); P1: 22.590 - 32.590; P2: 185.590 - 215.590 (long: "/msg aloril counter?") (419) Feb 27 21:34:24 oh my Feb 27 21:34:42 really LuitvD? you will buy me my Neo for free? Feb 27 21:35:06 Lars_G: what do you mean? Feb 27 21:35:24 that you just will gift me a neo, won't you? Feb 27 21:35:36 nope, I won't Feb 27 21:35:49 awww Feb 27 21:35:54 But I was so convinced of it! Feb 27 21:36:01 why? Feb 27 21:37:41 oh? I just did Feb 27 21:51:33 I thought, there were some opensource flash implementatons? Is any of them useful? Feb 27 21:52:55 They're half useful Feb 27 21:53:11 gnash, the one with most momentum, can run all of flash 5 and some good ammount of flash 7 Feb 27 21:53:30 elrond... elrond... _the_ elrond?? Feb 27 21:53:37 lkcl - Yes! Feb 27 21:53:38 the delay in adobe's release of flash 9 gave some momentum to gnash, but the problem is as always reverse engineering is slow and legally perilous Feb 27 21:53:40 * lkcl kicks Elrond Feb 27 21:53:52 lkcl - How did you get in without me noticing you here?! Feb 27 21:53:54 * Lars_G puts on "love is in the air" in the LP player Feb 27 21:54:12 he he. sorry! Feb 27 21:54:22 * Elrond wonders, who else hides in here... Feb 27 21:54:49 Elrond: I hide here. but people always seem to see me, no matter how quiet I remain Feb 27 21:55:05 Lars_G - You're not quiet currently. :) Feb 27 21:55:17 lkcl - How are you? Feb 27 21:55:23 * lkcl kicks Lars Feb 27 21:55:29 Elrond: See? you saw me! Feb 27 21:55:37 lkcl: Will you buy me a neo as a gift? Feb 27 21:55:39 yeh, i'm good, dude. seriously busy at work Feb 27 21:55:45 Lars: sure. Feb 27 21:55:50 what you gonna do with it? Feb 27 21:55:52 lkcl: If you will, my ass is yours to kick. otherwise I'll have to charge for that Feb 27 21:56:03 bennnnd over, dude :) Feb 27 21:56:20 lkcl: The first two days, come over it. (don't worry I'll put it in a plastic bag first) Feb 27 21:56:20 * lkcl cackles Feb 27 21:56:36 euuw Feb 27 21:56:41 the next five months, trying to get phoneme to work perfectly in it. (I'm obsessed about J2ME) Feb 27 21:56:54 oh dear. jaaavaaa Feb 27 21:57:00 Then, do very odd code in it to solve personal needs. Tweak the UI to hell. and slowly add everything I find missing. Feb 27 21:57:13 were you on the qtopia-interest mailing list? Feb 27 21:57:38 lkcl sponsors free phones?! Feb 27 21:57:39 Maybe try to kick in a working mplayer/ffmpeg/avifile/gstreamer engine so I can get some video love Feb 27 21:58:03 lkcl: No i wasn't. i dropped some interest in qtopia when my iPaq with linux (and qt) was mugged from me at gunpoint Feb 27 21:58:40 i'm happy to buy one or two for people - _if_ they can justify doing something interesting (or i know damn well that they'd do interesting things with it) Feb 27 21:58:51 lkcl: Not really dropped interest. but since I have not forced myself to save for a zaurus 5500, or an iPaq, I blocked it out to avoid the trauma of having lost it. Feb 27 21:59:02 well - if you can get myth-tv running on it then that'd be _great_ Feb 27 21:59:20 Lars_G: o dear! Feb 27 21:59:26 lkcl: you're kind. But to be true. if I save for four months all my spare money I might buy one, so don't worry. sponsor someone else. Feb 27 22:00:03 lkcl: Hmm personally I don't see much advantage in MythTv on the neo, but one thing I do plan to try to get to work as best as I can as soon as I have the neo is a good VNC client since I use vnc a lot for work Feb 27 22:00:26 I want to see if I can addapt a vnc client to work with the openmokoui instead of hooking to gtk or X11 or fb Feb 27 22:00:28 Lars_G: well, i have about 8 phones i'm not using, of different kinds. a universal, a hermes, an ipaq hw6915, a greenphone, a blueangel, a himalaya, an eten g500 Feb 27 22:00:38 YOU HAVE A GREENPHONE? Feb 27 22:00:40 i'm keeping the a780 though because it works. Feb 27 22:00:42 yeh. Feb 27 22:00:51 got one in december. Feb 27 22:01:01 * Lars_G drools Feb 27 22:01:23 to be sincere. I mostly want a neo to liberate myself from the bonds of my current slaver, which is Sony Ericsson Feb 27 22:01:29 he he. Feb 27 22:01:41 I am too tired of being at the mercy of vendors that force me to buy a new device to get a simple to implement feature. Feb 27 22:02:05 tihi. Feb 27 22:02:06 seriously, though: would you like to get myth-tv up-and-running on the HTC Universal? Feb 27 22:02:22 what use do you see on myth-tv on a portable? Feb 27 22:02:32 i dunno - anything you like :) Feb 27 22:02:40 that's the point, duh :) Feb 27 22:02:46 hahaha Feb 27 22:02:47 One of my main interests in the neo is the gps. I was considering buying a garmin thing. But garmin pisses their customers. :-( Feb 27 22:03:00 Elrond: yeah Feb 27 22:03:02 Elrond: you want to borrow my ipaq hw6915, then? Feb 27 22:03:08 the only thing i didn't get working was suspend. Feb 27 22:03:20 the hw6915 has the same GPS chipset as the Neo. Feb 27 22:03:33 hammerhead something?! Feb 27 22:03:38 connected to uart? Feb 27 22:03:43 so other than suspend/resume, and the screen being 240x240... Feb 27 22:04:01 it's a bit more complicated than UART - but i documented the protocol, on wiki.xda-developers.com Feb 27 22:04:11 it's i2s or something. Feb 27 22:04:37 i2c I guess. i2s is more comonly used for DACs but I can be wrong Feb 27 22:04:44 Hm, is anyone hosting NAND/kernel/uboot images for the Neo? A seven-hour OE build doesn't sound like much fun. Feb 27 22:05:10 cjb - buildhost.openmoko.org doesn't have something useful? Feb 27 22:05:12 cjb: there are ways to optimise that. Feb 27 22:05:36 you can keep the cross-compiler, you can use ccache Feb 27 22:05:49 lkcl - Did you also decode the protocol, or only the hardware level connection? Feb 27 22:05:49 seven hours is only if you're silly about it. Feb 27 22:05:49 And maybe add distcc Feb 27 22:05:58 Elrond: no we didn't decode the protocol. Feb 27 22:06:05 only the hardware level Feb 27 22:06:17 when i have rootfs(finally) how to add extra package to it? Feb 27 22:06:19 "we"? Feb 27 22:06:21 http://wiki.xda-developers.com/index.php?pagename=SableGPS Feb 27 22:06:33 cr2 (#htc-linux) and i Feb 27 22:06:46 http://hands.com/~lkcl/hp6915/gps.readwrite.decode.txt Feb 27 22:06:52 SPI port. Feb 27 22:07:20 Ahh. spi is a standard on embedded stuff. Feb 27 22:07:21 the guy from globallocate.com - boaz effroni - is a FUCKING DICKHEAD Feb 27 22:07:44 he actually _banned_ my email address. Feb 27 22:07:44 i2c and i2s are standards too. Feb 27 22:07:50 such as 1-wire though that one is propietary Feb 27 22:08:06 Lars_G - Yep. Feb 27 22:08:14 Elrond: buildhost would be useful if it had any builds newer than last October.. Feb 27 22:08:31 cjb - Huh. I assumed it has newer ones... Feb 27 22:08:44 cjb - We should ask mickeyl politely.... Feb 27 22:09:09 lkcl - So for the start one needs the agpsd from openmoko? Feb 27 22:09:14 yep. Feb 27 22:09:35 and then it's easy to reverse-engineer (black-box style) what comes in and goes out of that. Feb 27 22:10:24 i'd _love_ to tell mr boaz effroni of global locate that he really is a complete tit. he told me that "it's not necessary to reverse engineer, and we don't _need_ to tell you anything" Feb 27 22:10:46 but seriously, Elrond: do you want to borrow my hw6915? Feb 27 22:11:04 it's very similar to the Neo. Feb 27 22:11:58 lkcl - Hmm. Any url on the hw6915 hardware? Feb 27 22:12:16 i managed to get literally _everything_ going, hardware-wise, except for suspend/resume, in about 6 weeks, because the device is so similar to other HTC devices Feb 27 22:12:29 yes - http://wiki.xda-developers.com and then search for 'Sable" Feb 27 22:13:46 it has bluetooth brf 6150, wireless acx100, GPS (GL20000 + LN22), GSM/GPRS, 240x240 screen, Akai AK4641 sound codec, i even got the keyboard working, backlight, _everything_ but suspend/resume. Feb 27 22:14:14 lkcl - BTW: The problem about the reverse engeenering: It can make the thing into an ITAR "munition". That's possibly one reason (not the top, of course), why GL doesn't give details. Feb 27 22:15:10 no - if it's free software, all they have to do is send notification to the right department - *notification* not 'ask for permission' - and they're in the clear Feb 27 22:16:11 Have you read the ITAR regulations on this? Feb 27 22:16:26 no - jeremy allison did, in 1999. Feb 27 22:16:44 For encryption that is? Feb 27 22:17:10 hi Feb 27 22:17:17 anything containing encryption algorithms, yes. Feb 27 22:17:52 free software implementations of 'munitions', he said that all you needed to do was send 'notification' to the right department. Feb 27 22:17:55 The regulations have a specific section on GPS. Feb 27 22:18:05 presumably because they can't... oh bugger. that doesn't surprise me. Feb 27 22:18:16 well, xxxxem then :) Feb 27 22:18:43 reverse-engineering and publication of the specifications... _outside_ of the stupid united states it is, then Feb 27 22:18:58 Well, _we_ do not need to care... until we take our into the .us... ;o) Feb 27 22:19:11 Right. Feb 27 22:19:48 well, that's ok: you just delete the program, and download it again once you get off the plane ha ha :) Feb 27 22:19:49 And put big warnings before letting people download stuff. Feb 27 22:20:18 You have to delete it again when entering the plane. ;) Feb 27 22:20:31 while traveling back. Feb 27 22:20:31 or put it on a distributed network, and tell the us govt to piss off Feb 27 22:20:35 :) Feb 27 22:20:35 don't forget it'd be rare for you to enter a plane with an electronic device nowadays Feb 27 22:20:46 hmm Feb 27 22:20:54 the HTCs look cute. are they hard to come by? expensive? Feb 27 22:21:11 lars_g which one? Feb 27 22:21:12 Lars_G: not so rare... rare for it to be on, sure Feb 27 22:21:16 look at ebay Feb 27 22:21:19 oh yes, yes, of course. nooobody in europe carries their mobile phones, and nooobody switches them on when the plane lands Feb 27 22:21:22 they arent cheap Feb 27 22:21:31 meh ok Feb 27 22:21:32 but cheaper as the neo Feb 27 22:21:39 lkcl: lol Feb 27 22:21:51 :) Feb 27 22:21:56 lkcl: number of idiots I've seen never switching their phones off Feb 27 22:22:25 sometimes I like to have a jammer Feb 27 22:22:43 DING, BEEP, DONG... woops, those are all the roaming SMSs Feb 27 22:22:54 On my last flight (okay, it's 1,5 years ago), I had my big digicam. ;) Feb 27 22:22:57 Lars_G: it depends. the OMAP ones (which are pieces of shit) are cheap. the older HTC phones are about $EUR 150, these days. the newer ones are about $EUR 300 to $EUR 400 Feb 27 22:23:24 Lars_G: _don't_ get an OMAP-based phone. _ever_. complete waste of time. Feb 27 22:23:36 I think I'll save for four months abut a neo Feb 27 22:23:42 and buy Feb 27 22:23:43 Lars_G: seriously, do you want to 'borrow' my HTC universal? Feb 27 22:24:01 lkcl: you're a little far for me to borrow stuff off you Feb 27 22:24:01 i haven't used it for a year. Feb 27 22:24:20 Lars_G: i'm not exactly gonna get on a plane and deliver it myself, _am_ i, dude??? Feb 27 22:24:32 and i'm in holland Feb 27 22:24:32 hahaha Feb 27 22:24:42 no you're probably going to send it via CoD mail Feb 27 22:24:46 and I'm in Venezuela Feb 27 22:25:02 "hi, dude, i ran all the way over here. *puff*, *puff*. ..." Feb 27 22:25:03 What parts of the universal work? what did you use as a base? Feb 27 22:25:06 lol Feb 27 22:25:17 talk to cr2 on #htc-linux Feb 27 22:25:23 also see these pages: Feb 27 22:25:59 if i can get my web browser to work...zzzzzz Feb 27 22:28:21 lkcl - http://wiki.xda-developers.com/index.php?pagename=Ipaq6915 looks like a lot of details work left... Feb 27 22:29:31 http://wiki.xda-developers.com/index.php?pagename=SableProgress Feb 27 22:29:54 it looks that way - but that's a _very_ early page with lots of detauls on it. Feb 27 22:30:41 which i cut/paste to other locations, later. i was in a _really_ big hurry because i only had 3 months available to work in and i managed to do the port in 6 weeks. Feb 27 22:31:09 and then suspend/resume got in the way, and after another 8 days, i gave up - it was too much. Feb 27 22:31:22 anyway. enough! Feb 27 22:31:31 i have to stop. work tomorrow. Feb 27 22:32:28 Good night, lklc. Feb 27 22:32:32 Good night, lkcl. Feb 27 22:32:41 nite lkcl Feb 27 22:32:42 night dude. send me your address! Feb 27 22:33:01 meh Feb 27 22:33:03 night lkcl Feb 27 22:33:12 lkcl - Will you be around the next days? Feb 27 22:33:39 Elrond: yep. Feb 27 22:33:50 night woglide Feb 27 22:33:54 woglinde oops Feb 27 22:34:04 see you Feb 27 22:35:06 counter Feb 27 22:35:07 P0: a week, a day 12:50:14 (-0.465 - 8.535 days); P1: 22.535 - 32.535; P2: 185.535 - 215.535 (long: "/msg aloril counter?") (420) Feb 27 22:35:09 lkcl - Okay, will talk then. Feb 27 22:35:36 coredump *g* Feb 27 22:35:59 woglinde: =D Feb 27 22:39:34 oh bipolar is here too? Feb 27 22:39:42 he's like god. everywhere Feb 27 22:39:58 ~bipolar Feb 27 22:40:05 bipolar would like to be shot twice in the head, but his wife relies on him for really good sex Feb 27 22:40:15 lol Feb 27 22:40:24 ~Lars_G Feb 27 22:40:26 somebody said lars_g was ..... errrr... he is... aahhh.. hhuuhhh.. he is Lars_G, you'll understand. Feb 27 22:40:37 :) Feb 27 22:40:47 ~CoreDump|home Feb 27 22:40:57 lol Feb 27 22:41:01 hehe Feb 27 22:41:06 * CoreDump|home is a nobody Feb 27 22:41:08 ~woglinde Feb 27 22:41:25 And btw Feb 27 22:41:34 you MIGHT understand. but pray you don't. Feb 27 22:41:40 that would mean you're as fucked as I am Feb 27 22:43:28 hihi Feb 27 22:43:35 yeah I am fucked enough Feb 27 22:52:23 ~change 300 GBP to eur Feb 27 22:52:30 300.00 Pound (GBP) makes 444.842 Euro (EUR) (from http://www.xe.com/) Feb 27 22:54:12 ~change 350 USD to VEB Feb 27 22:54:18 350.00 United States Dollar (USD) makes 751,555.00 Bolivar (VEB) (from http://www.xe.com/) Feb 27 22:54:23 sigh Feb 27 22:56:15 Lars_G - add shipping. :| Feb 27 23:01:08 hm. I have a debug board -- how do I charge the battery? Feb 27 23:02:58 You need the neo to charge the battery. Feb 27 23:03:41 And you don't need the debug board at all. Feb 27 23:04:19 at least we hope so. this is prototype hard and software after all =) Feb 27 23:04:27 s/we/I Feb 27 23:04:53 Elrond: when I plug the Neo into the wall charger, it doesn't seem to charge. Feb 27 23:05:50 cjb - Is u-boot working? Feb 27 23:06:07 dunno. Feb 27 23:06:24 the charging circuit requires the bootloader to do something? Feb 27 23:06:44 the bootloader can be used to query the charging process. Feb 27 23:07:32 If you connect the serial console via the debug board, you should be able to see u-boot prompt, when you switch the neo on. Feb 27 23:08:03 Then: "neo1973 charger status" Feb 27 23:10:14 Elrond: ok! thanks. Feb 27 23:10:22 cjb - Does it work?! Feb 27 23:10:36 Elrond: It looks like the software build is from 200608, so maybe I don't have the right uboot stuff. I haven't tried yet. Feb 27 23:11:51 Where did you get the neo from? Feb 27 23:12:05 long story :) Feb 27 23:12:39 Is there a short version? ;o) Feb 27 23:13:57 Anyway: connect the debug board and get the serial console to work. The neo should work from zsb power, even if not charged. Feb 27 23:16:13 I wonder what I connect to what. the debug board has a mini-usb-b, two USB-As, and a ribbon cable that I presume is JTAG. Feb 27 23:17:20 i think there's a diagram on the wiki Feb 27 23:17:42 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Debug_Board Feb 27 23:17:51 so I suppose I connect the mini-usb-b to a computer's A port, to power that, and then one of the other USB ports provides power and the other is for serial, or something? Feb 27 23:18:29 ah. we don't have that revision of the debug board, since the jtag isn't populated on ours. Feb 27 23:18:41 cjb - http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Connecting_Neo1973_with_Debug_Board_v2 Feb 27 23:18:52 Ahh. Feb 27 23:19:15 cjb - Have you got this one: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Debug_Board_v1 Feb 27 23:19:16 ? Feb 27 23:19:31 huh. no. Feb 27 23:19:55 so I guess we have a v2 that happens to not have the JTAG/UART populated. Feb 27 23:19:59 So I wonder, what debug board you have... Feb 27 23:20:19 oh, it's definitely the v2 in everything but the bottom pins. Feb 27 23:20:41 cjb - Then: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Connecting_Neo1973_with_Debug_Board_v2 Feb 27 23:22:52 Elrond: ah, I have to disassemble the phone. Feb 27 23:23:41 disassemble: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Disassembling_Neo1973 Feb 27 23:24:01 yeah. Feb 27 23:24:23 Does the screen show anything when you power on? Feb 27 23:24:55 yes, if I power it externally. Feb 27 23:25:17 Hmm, the newer u-boots have a serial-over-usb-console. Feb 27 23:25:25 it boots all the way to GPE. Feb 27 23:25:35 yeah, I doubt I have that, if the NAND image is from August. Feb 27 23:26:04 Hmm, I wonder, if you have the bad block table already... Feb 27 23:27:00 Anyway, if you don't fear disassembling, it's probably the easiesst. Feb 27 23:28:34 I don't fear it, but I can't find an appropriate screwdriver :) Feb 27 23:28:53 ;) Feb 27 23:29:59 If you want to update u-boot, make sure a) you check the bad block table status b) make sure, jtag works. (if you screw anything, jtag is your only way back.) Feb 27 23:31:26 nod. we have two Neos now, and our own JTAG equipment, so shouldn't be too bad. Feb 27 23:32:10 cjb: are they both orange? Feb 27 23:32:19 yes. Feb 27 23:32:46 they're the same hardware revision. Feb 27 23:34:27 Which revision is it? Feb 27 23:34:46 GTA01B_v3 Feb 27 23:35:14 That's nearly "current". Feb 27 23:35:28 That one only has issues with suspend/resume. Feb 27 23:35:54 nothing important then :) Feb 27 23:36:42 *g* Feb 27 23:38:04 Anyway. I need to go to bed. Feb 27 23:38:13 Ask me more questions in 18 hours. :) Feb 27 23:38:15 thanks for the help! Feb 28 00:06:27 "Most of these devices are _not_ phones." Feb 28 00:06:58 'lo rwhitby. Feb 28 00:07:05 * cjb == using mokomakefile. Feb 28 00:07:08 hey cjb Feb 28 00:07:13 excellent. is it working for you? Feb 28 00:07:21 so far :) Feb 28 00:07:36 (there seems to be a failure in openmoko-dailer this morning ...) Feb 28 00:08:00 ah, oh dear. perhaps I can revert that package when I get to it? Feb 28 00:08:00 cjb: now that you have hardware, what other stuff should mokomakefile be building for phase0 devs (of which I am one) Feb 28 00:08:16 haha, I'm receiving (and decoding) dbus signals about power on my laptop ! Feb 28 00:08:19 rwhitby: ask me once I've actually managed to install an image on the hardware :) Feb 28 00:08:37 cjb: hopefully, I'm only a couple of weeks behind you :-) Feb 28 00:09:10 and USB HD stuff, too :) Feb 28 00:22:51 and rhythmbox on the session bus, too. Feb 28 00:22:58 <|Lupin|> Hi Feb 28 00:25:56 <|Lupin|> Any openmoko guy around ? Feb 28 00:28:48 just ask what you want to know, someone might answer Feb 28 00:29:08 * Kero is off to bed, tho Feb 28 00:30:03 <|Lupin|> Well Feb 28 00:30:12 <|Lupin|> there is nothing I really want to _know_ Feb 28 00:30:32 <|Lupin|> just wanted to talk aboutthepossibility of having a phone with a keyboard rather than a touch-screen Feb 28 00:31:36 <|Lupin|> Regarding mobilephones, the situation for blind people is relatively frustrating because thay can hardly use a mobile phone. There are some commercial screen-readers available, but notsure how goodthey are. Feb 28 00:32:04 <|Lupin|> With OpenMoko there would be a chance to improve the situation, but a touch-screen is definitel not usable by a blin person, IMHO Feb 28 00:32:25 ... Feb 28 00:32:34 |Lupin|: so.. they should get a different phone. Feb 28 00:32:47 we get some very strange people in here. Feb 28 00:34:37 <|Lupin|> hmm... I think I made a mistake. I believed that OpenMoko is the name ofThe phone, whereas anow I believe it is just the nameofthe software, which can be run on several different models. Is this correct ? Feb 28 00:35:41 you are correct that there is no hardware called openmoko Feb 28 00:36:17 <|Lupin|> okan. But on how man different hardwares can OpenMoko run ? Feb 28 00:36:32 <|Lupin|> s/man/many/ Feb 28 00:36:32 |Lupin| meant: okan. But on how many different hardwares can OpenMoko run ? Feb 28 00:37:57 <|Lupin|> wow, apt... Feb 28 00:52:12 1,1 1,1 14,14 1,6 6,64,13 1,11 1,1 1,1 1,110holas 1,1 1,1 1,11 4,13 6,6 14,14 1,1 1,1 1,1 Feb 28 00:52:59 .... Feb 28 00:53:45 I couldn't imagine a faster way making more "friends" in a channel than this, really Feb 28 00:54:59 ;) Feb 28 00:56:02 <|Lupin|> ? Feb 28 00:57:42 |Lupin|: the use of colors in IRC is frowned upon in many channels as it renders as useless garbage in some clients. Feb 28 00:58:17 <|Lupin|> ahah Feb 28 00:58:31 <|Lupin|> Well on my braille device I could only see some spaces Feb 28 00:58:38 hehe Feb 28 00:58:46 * |Lupin| wonders what appeared on the screen in irssi... Feb 28 00:59:03 <|Lupin|> Seriously Feb 28 00:59:14 <|Lupin|> I'd definitely be happy to be ableTo use the phone Feb 28 00:59:25 <|Lupin|> but with a tuch-screen... not quite possible. Feb 28 00:59:36 will the neo have an infinite impropability drive? Feb 28 00:59:49 arghs typo... Feb 28 01:00:23 |Lupin|: dunno about irssi but that's what it looks like on a non-color-aware client: http://hentges.net/tmp/logs/irc/livelogs/%23openmoko.livelog#[20070228%2002:26:52] Feb 28 01:01:48 <|Lupin|> CoreDump|home: okay, thanks. Feb 28 01:02:05 np Feb 28 01:03:43 <|Lupin|> One possibility is to use the Neo1973 thanks t a braille terminal which would talk toThe phone over bluetooth Feb 28 01:04:01 <|Lupin|> but this requires to have two devices al theTime... can be boring... Feb 28 01:04:07 what about speech recognition? Feb 28 01:05:34 |Lupin|: it is generally thought that there will eventually be a phone with a keyboard that runs OpenMoko. The announced official devices so far do not. Feb 28 01:06:17 There is talk of HTC phones running OpenMoko, but I'm unsure of the status (i.e. are they just running the GUI, or are they actually useable as a phone) Feb 28 01:06:49 <|Lupin|> Clint: it might be a solution, indeed. But first this implies a lot of development I guess (to develop the voice recogtition suite) and second it max not b very easy to use this kind of software to, say, write mails or so... Feb 28 01:07:36 <|Lupin|> rwhitby: Okay, thanks for your infos. What exactly is /%23openmoko.livelog#[20070228%2002:26:5 Feb 28 01:07:48 <|Lupin|> ooops let's start it again Feb 28 01:07:57 <|Lupin|> rwhitby: Okay, thanks for your infos. What exactly is HTC ? Feb 28 01:08:13 HTC Universal is a phone Feb 28 01:08:48 there are other HTC devices too - HTC is the manufacturer who also makes phones for other companies who rebrand them. Feb 28 01:09:47 <|Lupin|> okay Feb 28 01:09:56 <|Lupin|> And how opened are these phones ? Feb 28 01:12:23 |Lupin|: http://www.handhelds.org/moin/moin.cgi/Universal and http://www.openezx.org/ Feb 28 01:12:38 (there's probably a better HTC Linux site somewhere) Feb 28 01:13:34 <|Lupin|> ahah. Feb 28 01:13:42 <|Lupin|> Thanks rwhitby Feb 28 01:13:59 <|Lupin|> So Linux can already be installed o some phones... Feb 28 01:14:13 yes Feb 28 01:14:35 |Lupin|: how difficult is reading IRC with a braille reader? Feb 28 01:14:35 you can install linux on the htc phones? i've got a tytyn Feb 28 01:16:42 <|Lupin|> rwhitby: It's okay. Gets always easier with time going... Feb 28 01:20:15 <|Lupin|> Technology has some frustrating aspects. Feb 28 01:20:39 <|Lupin|> At th time of Gutenberg, things were printed on paper and hence simply not accessible to blin persons. Feb 28 01:21:01 <|Lupin|> Today with the technology, things could be accessible, but sometimes they are not. Feb 28 01:21:05 <|Lupin|> Too bad... Feb 28 01:21:33 when can I buy one of these phones... :-) Feb 28 01:21:53 StylusEater: see topic Feb 28 01:26:04 <|Lupin|> Okay, enough surfing / hangin' aroundd. Goodnight folks. Feb 28 01:28:11 n8 |Lupin| Feb 28 01:35:04 tsp on #freenode-social uses a screen reader - at some 600WPM. He put up some samples of the speech - insane. Feb 28 01:35:35 Started at 120, and just kept cranking. Feb 28 01:36:48 SpeedEvil: got an url? Feb 28 01:38:46 openmoko: 03jiang_li * r1153 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/applications/openmoko-simplemediaplayer/beep/mainwin.c: Thsi commit try to solve the problem of wrong position of the wheel Feb 28 01:41:39 http://silenceisdefeat.org/~tspivey/eloquence.flac Feb 28 01:44:00 Though it seems down. Feb 28 01:44:04 SpeedEvil: thanks! Feb 28 01:44:10 and yeah Feb 28 01:44:16 =) I'll try later Feb 28 01:45:05 It seems unbelievable, but as he was keeping up with #fn-s at times when it was going 300wpm+, ... Feb 28 01:45:46 300wpm is amazing indeed Feb 28 01:46:33 The speech file (that he uses) is at 6 - you can pretty much just hear the plosives. Feb 28 01:48:17 Oh - I diddn't delete it. http://www.mauve.plus.com/eloquence.flac in approxiimately 3 minutes (uploading) Feb 28 01:49:04 http://silenceisdefeat.org/~tspivey/eloquence.flac Feb 28 01:49:25 the guy besides mickeyl looks like one of the bad guys in a james bond movie hehe Feb 28 01:49:30 yes - it's aa copy of that. Feb 28 01:49:54 CoreDump|home: in the final picture? that's sean. Feb 28 01:50:03 I know muwaha Feb 28 01:50:15 SpeedEvil: thanks Feb 28 01:50:15 up now. Feb 28 01:50:29 Just shows what training the brain can do. Feb 28 01:50:58 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/32615155@N00/405229713/in/set-72157594561002629/ for those not also in #oe) Feb 28 01:52:17 SpeedEvil: wtf? you are not telling me that this guy actually understands this? lol! Feb 28 01:53:05 He claims to - and if he really is blind - he seems to be able to 'read' at at least 300wpm. On balance I think I believe him. Feb 28 01:53:38 unf***ing believable Feb 28 01:53:51 It did take him 6 months to build up to this speed, 1 or 2 wpm at a time. Feb 28 01:54:26 very impressive Feb 28 01:54:49 Indeed - I'd previously assumed that the limit was around a third of that. Feb 28 01:55:01 I hadn't considered non-human speakers, and a trained brain. Feb 28 01:56:22 rwhitby: now I know. Sean looks almost exactly like "Simon" ie: the bad guy in die hard 3 or 4 Feb 28 01:57:03 jeremy irons? Feb 28 01:57:16 http://imdb.com/name/nm0000460/ Feb 28 01:57:49 yep that's him Feb 28 01:59:13 time for bed, n8 all! Feb 28 02:10:18 openmoko: 03laforge * r1154 10/trunk/src/target/u-boot/patches/uboot-20061030-qt2410.patch: add required CFG_UBOOT_SIZE variable to QT2410 config Feb 28 02:18:22 openmoko: 03laforge * r1155 10/trunk/src/target/u-boot/patches/uboot-dfu.patch: * add DFU relevant config fields for QT2410 Feb 28 02:30:45 where there many at the FOSDEM beerevent that were "faking it" , as talked about on the community ML ? Feb 28 02:34:18 you know, showing off their printed-on-paper Neo? ;-) Feb 28 02:47:31 If I could have gotten there, I'd at least have made minimal effort. Feb 28 02:48:13 Bit of wood + bandsaw + sander + 10 mins + LED + transparency = reasonable fake in 20 mins. Feb 28 02:48:51 Well - and paint drying time. Feb 28 02:49:23 For extra giggles, incorporate the guts of a bluetooth handset, and sell it to a gullible person. :) Feb 28 02:53:54 haha:) **** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed Feb 28 03:00:00 2007