**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Mar 04 02:59:58 2007 Mar 04 06:21:43 hi Mar 04 06:55:57 openmoko: 03werner * r1235 10/developers/werner/dfu-util-alt-by-name.patch: Mar 04 06:55:57 openmoko: Add Altsetting lookup by name to dfu-util. (Proposed patch.) Mar 04 06:55:57 openmoko: main.c: removed PAGE_SIZE comment Mar 04 06:55:57 openmoko: main.c (help): fixed "Altseting" typo Mar 04 06:55:57 openmoko: main.c (main, help, alt_by_name): added lookup of dif->altsetting by name Mar 04 09:03:11 openmoko: 03rwhitby * r39 10mokomakefile/trunk/patches/openmoko-HEAD/ (series uboot-gta01.patch): Removed the uboot patch - applied upstream. Mar 04 09:05:52 salut tlm **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sun Mar 04 09:44:25 2007 **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Mar 04 09:44:57 2007 Mar 04 12:32:28 openmoko: 03laforge * r1236 10/trunk/src/host/dfu-util/src/sam7dfu.c: make sure we don't get division-by-zero if downloading less than 50 bytes Mar 04 12:58:46 guys where are openmoko-libs located now? Mar 04 12:58:46 deadchip: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) Mar 04 12:59:02 ah eh aloril Mar 04 12:59:05 ok let's see Mar 04 13:08:06 counter Mar 04 13:08:06 P0: 23:08:22 (0.964 +-1.0 days); P1: 32.928 +-10.0 (see faq) (458) Mar 04 13:08:19 really getting close now huh? :P Mar 04 13:09:01 btw guys Mar 04 13:09:11 i'm checking out OM since i'm the main developer you've based simplemediaplayer on Mar 04 13:09:38 ah, nice Mar 04 13:09:39 i'm going to try to just run it on Xephyr for now, maybe we can actually help to fix some of the really whacked code in it Mar 04 13:10:36 this channel is a little dead lately... little silent Mar 04 13:10:55 I hope some core people will come online soon.. Mar 04 13:11:10 (or stop being idle) Mar 04 13:11:46 p0 ships tomorrow Mar 04 13:11:55 prod ups/fedex/dhl to work faster :) Mar 04 13:11:58 :) Mar 04 13:12:17 i think i'm going to buy the developer preview release of the phone really Mar 04 13:12:28 i was waiting for a few years for a project like this to come up really Mar 04 13:12:38 and how it looks so far, is quite great :) Mar 04 13:12:51 deadchip: get in line :) Mar 04 13:13:06 heeh Mar 04 13:13:15 :) Mar 04 13:13:22 is there a line yet? :P Mar 04 13:13:50 something like it Mar 04 13:13:51 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Buying_Interest_List Mar 04 13:13:58 the buying interest list Mar 04 13:14:09 though not really official, and far from binding Mar 04 13:14:19 heh Mar 04 13:14:24 "Hell yes! PDA/GPS/Phone, but need to add WLAN and Bluetooth." Mar 04 13:14:34 ... Mar 04 13:14:39 people want *2* bluetooth interfaces?!?!?! Mar 04 13:14:45 wahahaha Mar 04 13:14:50 that's evil Mar 04 13:14:53 who said that? Mar 04 13:15:04 #115 on the list you linked to Mar 04 13:15:05 to receive and submit porn Mar 04 13:15:07 in one time Mar 04 13:15:18 koen: lolz Mar 04 13:15:40 that dumb twat Mar 04 13:16:09 there are some ubunties there too Mar 04 13:16:21 maybe someone should tell them about the force of apt-cache search Mar 04 13:16:22 is that contagious? Mar 04 13:16:32 to be able to connect their mobiles to "ubuntu OpenSource" Mar 04 13:17:32 koen: was it P1 or P1+ which should have I2C and SPI solder pads? Mar 04 13:17:53 p1 aiui Mar 04 13:18:01 hmm... Mar 04 13:18:03 2 bluetooth ifaces?lol Mar 04 13:18:08 XD Mar 04 13:18:11 the 1 i have in my camera doesn't even work haha Mar 04 13:18:25 BT in a cam? Mar 04 13:18:28 nice... Mar 04 13:18:30 maybe it's just borked windows system software that doesn't work with it Mar 04 13:18:40 yeah it's quite nice just that, well, i wasn't really able to use it riht Mar 04 13:18:43 right* Mar 04 13:18:56 there are BT photo printers too :) Mar 04 13:18:57 the cam is from Kodak though so i trust that it was the error on the peer devices so far Mar 04 13:19:00 yeah :) Mar 04 13:19:13 which kodak device is it? Mar 04 13:19:20 LuitvD: V610 Mar 04 13:19:23 LuitvD: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973_Hardware Mar 04 13:19:31 How is security on BT these days? Mar 04 13:19:33 * LuitvD has the Kodak P850 Mar 04 13:19:37 ah Mar 04 13:19:49 koen: what's with that? Mar 04 13:20:01 LuitvD: that answers your question Mar 04 13:20:08 ah,,, right Mar 04 13:20:10 GTA01Bv4 Mar 04 13:20:10 This is the version that will be shipped in Phase 1 Mar 04 13:20:10 [edit] Mar 04 13:20:11 Changes from GTA01Bv3 Mar 04 13:20:11 1. Fix all Errata items from GTA01Bv3 Mar 04 13:20:11 2. Add I2C, SPI and one irq and wakeup capable GPIO pin to debug port plus have test pads for all these signals (for soldering wires directly on the pcb) Mar 04 13:20:28 hmmmmm Mar 04 13:20:30 tasty Mar 04 13:20:47 I2C, SPI and IRQ :D exactly what I need Mar 04 13:21:06 koen - Will p0 be Bv03 or Bv04? Mar 04 13:21:13 ... is that known? Mar 04 13:21:14 3 Mar 04 13:21:20 4 is p1 Mar 04 13:21:31 Elrond: check the page I linked to :) Mar 04 13:21:35 p0 will have _serious_ hardware bugs. Mar 04 13:21:44 GTA01Bv3 Mar 04 13:21:44 This is the second produced version of the bluetooth-enabled version. It contains mainly GPS-related fixes. Mar 04 13:21:44 * ATAG_REVISION: 0x00000230 Mar 04 13:21:44 This is the version that is shipped in Phase 0 Mar 04 13:21:48 Mmostly impacting on battery life though. Mar 04 13:21:57 ah Mar 04 13:21:59 the P850 looks nice Mar 04 13:22:03 mine is, simpler, heh Mar 04 13:22:05 :) Mar 04 13:22:06 ~counter Mar 04 13:22:09 counter Mar 04 13:22:10 P0: 23:01:20 (0.959 +-1.0 days); P1: 32.919 +-10.0 (see faq) (459) Mar 04 13:22:11 :/ Mar 04 13:22:15 SpeedEvil: those errata are documented in the document I linked to :) Mar 04 13:22:15 I really want the I2C/SPI/usb broagut out on one connector. Mar 04 13:22:18 yeah Mar 04 13:22:38 Next to the battery connector in the back. Mar 04 13:22:49 it's too bad konica sold out to Sony Mar 04 13:22:53 i really liked their cameras Mar 04 13:22:56 * LuitvD just wants some space to dump a microchip and RF circuit, and SPI + IRQ solder pads Mar 04 13:23:12 Yeah. Mar 04 13:23:20 The solder pads are just fine for me. Mar 04 13:23:23 hrm seems i have to install more of the platform Mar 04 13:23:26 I want to make stuff for users. Mar 04 13:23:33 And solder pads are not OK for users. Mar 04 13:23:38 ... Mar 04 13:23:50 I finally have a dvb-t tower nearby enough, so I can now safely start doing Mar 04 13:23:53 OMG DVB!!!!! Mar 04 13:23:54 I want to have a Neo1973 as my robot remote control :) Mar 04 13:24:12 DS is cheaper :P Mar 04 13:24:30 koen: are you going to OMG DVB every time a signal comes near? :P Mar 04 13:24:43 :D Mar 04 13:24:48 no TV is the cheapest :) Mar 04 13:25:19 Fun SPI chip: http://www.maxim-ic.com/quick_view2.cfm/qv_pk/3639 a SPI USB host/peripheral controller. Mar 04 13:25:28 with some GPIOs too. Mar 04 13:26:05 And relatively cheap. ($4 at 1k) Mar 04 13:26:20 SpeedEvil: only 12mbit usb, though Mar 04 13:26:42 Well - you'd be pushed to get USB2 speeds over SPI :) Mar 04 13:27:03 SpeedEvil: details..... Mar 04 13:27:23 It's not so needed for the neo. Mar 04 13:27:34 * SpeedEvil wonders about a parallel port-USB adaptor. Mar 04 13:27:45 SpeedEvil - Hmm, What does a spi-uart cost? Mar 04 13:28:00 It's not really that sort of thing. Mar 04 13:28:14 It's an internal bus more than a uart as traditionally thought of. Mar 04 13:28:20 it tends to be built into stuff. Mar 04 13:28:24 12 speed AVR microcontrollers can software implement usb 1.1 Mar 04 13:28:26 easy to bit-bag. Mar 04 13:28:34 err, 12 mhz Mar 04 13:28:49 LOL, 12 speed XD Mar 04 13:29:06 Put your helmets on, we'll be reaching speeds of 3! Mar 04 13:29:08 True - I was more thinking of to add it to otherwise non-USB stuff, with a parallel port. Mar 04 13:29:31 Or should I say 12 >_> Mar 04 13:29:34 Lumpio-: Speed up to mark 2 Mar 04 13:29:37 lol Mar 04 13:29:40 SpeedEvil - A friend needs to connect a 3V rs232 to a uC that obly has spi... That's why I ask. ;) Mar 04 13:29:57 Oh - right. Mar 04 13:29:58 he could use an AVR Mar 04 13:30:05 I think I've seen those, for not much. Mar 04 13:30:30 SpeedEvil - He said, it would be like 7Eur. Mar 04 13:30:33 google SPI UART I suppose. Mar 04 13:30:38 Sounds about right. Mar 04 13:31:04 most Microchip PIC chips have SPI... Mar 04 13:31:13 Yeah, you can do that. Mar 04 13:31:21 Why is the above chip only $4 then? is usb that much easier then rs232?! Mar 04 13:31:23 *annoyed at Sony Ericsson for not putting edge in w880i* Mar 04 13:31:31 Volume. Mar 04 13:31:46 The USB chips go into high volume stuff. Mar 04 13:31:52 Ahh. Mar 04 13:31:54 Lowers prices. Mar 04 13:32:00 tihi... spi->usb->rs232 ;o) Mar 04 13:32:15 (which is probably more than 7 Eur.) Mar 04 13:32:26 a max232 chip is only 1,55$ Mar 04 13:32:43 and that's 2xRX and 2xTX Mar 04 13:32:46 If you've got GPIO, you can just bit-bang serial in some cases. Mar 04 13:33:00 232 is just a line driver though. Mar 04 13:33:14 SpeedEvil - Yeah, that thing has gpio. But receiving rs232 sounds like fun. ;) Mar 04 13:33:31 UART is tricky to software implement Mar 04 13:33:33 It's not _that_ bad. Mar 04 13:33:38 If you've got a good clock. Mar 04 13:33:42 especially if you don't have real time access Mar 04 13:33:45 If you don't, it gets horrible. Mar 04 13:33:54 ... ah right Mar 04 13:33:57 forgot that... Mar 04 13:34:08 microchips only need a line driver for RS232 : Mar 04 13:34:09 :P Mar 04 13:34:21 built in USART Mar 04 13:34:39 koen: The finger-wheel bug you opened (http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=215) is it similar to #154? Or better, does it only happen openmoko-mainmenu? Mar 04 13:35:23 LuitvD - line driver? Mar 04 13:35:30 stefan_schmidt: it isn't similar Mar 04 13:35:35 Elrond: that MAX232 chip Mar 04 13:35:45 A line driver is a voltage converter Mar 04 13:35:51 stefan_schmidt: and how did you get that cool @Openmoko.org address? ;) Mar 04 13:35:54 it has no gates or other smarts inside. Mar 04 13:36:07 koen: So what's the difference? Mar 04 13:36:15 koen: Working for openmoko.org. :) Mar 04 13:36:19 Ahh. Mar 04 13:36:30 stefan_schmidt: the orange part doesn't crash it, which #154 seems to be about Mar 04 13:36:31 koen: 1 month Mar 04 13:36:45 The one uart of his chip is already blocked. ;) That's why he need some other uart-thingy. ;) Mar 04 13:37:01 (it's an 8051 based thingy, I think.) Mar 04 13:37:02 koen: ok, I try to look into it today Mar 04 13:37:42 stefan_schmidt: mickeyl mentioned that the problem after 3 crashes might be some lock file in /tmp Mar 04 13:38:11 koen: ok, I keep that in mind Mar 04 13:40:56 * amarsh04 like many others running bbs's, made NatSemi rich buying PC16550 UARTS Mar 04 13:44:04 hi Mar 04 13:48:14 On the ongoing phone theft topic on the mailing list. Look at bottom: http://newsoftheweird.com/archive/index.html Mar 04 13:49:22 * CoreDump|home wants one of those: http://www.linuxdevices.com/files/misc/fic_neo1973_hackers_lunchbox.jpg =) Mar 04 13:49:48 CoreDump|home: I thought you were a p0 dev Mar 04 13:49:53 p0 devs get the lunchbox Mar 04 13:49:57 really? Mar 04 13:50:07 I didn't know that Mar 04 13:51:11 Hey all. I've been cheking your project out, and find it to be extremely interesting! Couldn't find it on the wiki or lists, but have you considered using jack for audio-routing? Mar 04 13:51:11 KaZm: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) Mar 04 13:51:46 Yeah - I cheked the FAQ too, thank you bot :) Mar 04 13:52:01 hat do you mean by routing? Mar 04 13:52:09 yes, you can connect a headset Mar 04 13:52:13 CoreDump|home: sean said that during the presentation at fosdem Mar 04 13:52:23 CoreDump|home: it isn't in the slides, as I expected Mar 04 13:52:29 ah Mar 04 13:52:45 I guess I missed that part in the video, thanks. Mar 04 13:53:04 For example when recording a call you have to combine both input and output audio - that kind of routing. Mar 04 13:57:10 you'd already have a mixer, but might be more optimal to have a dedicated one for the recorder Mar 04 13:57:19 KaZm: right now alsa-SoC routes the audio and pulseaudio is being considered for routing to bluetooth headsets Mar 04 13:58:48 stefan_schmidt: I added a comment to http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=215 Mar 04 13:59:45 * koen wonders how to add applets to matchbox-panel 2 after startup Mar 04 14:00:07 koen: Ok, so I can break it down to main-menu. thanks Mar 04 14:00:54 stefan_schmidt: I'm waiting for my lab partner to get rid of his hangover, so I have some time to test stuff Mar 04 14:01:16 koen: Okay, I'm not really that expirenced with jack. I'm sure you'll find the most optimal solution :) Mar 04 14:01:31 KaZm: I'm not implementing it :) Mar 04 14:02:09 koen: ATM I work on two smaller bugs. I notice you when I have something to test. Mar 04 14:02:30 openmoko: 03laforge * r1237 10/trunk/src/target/kernel/patches/ (sdhc-backport.patch series): add sdhc patch from 2.6.21-rc1 mainline (See: http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=93) Mar 04 14:12:03 6315 root 17 0 13816 7116 4928 S 0.3 11.4 0:09.13 matchbox-panel Mar 04 14:12:10 11.4% memory Mar 04 14:22:09 end of this month, how can we purchase this? Mar 04 14:22:09 jipi: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) Mar 04 14:27:07 erm... Mar 04 14:28:57 that auto-faq thing is really neat Mar 04 14:29:07 I should have had that 3 years ago Mar 04 14:30:12 *G* Mar 04 14:39:23 openmoko: 03werner * r1238 10/trunk/src/host/dfu-util/src/sam7dfu.c: Fixed = vs. == typo. Mar 04 14:42:24 openmoko: 03laforge * r1239 10/trunk/src/target/kernel/patches/ (3 files): Mar 04 14:42:24 openmoko: * move SDHC backport further up in series Mar 04 14:42:24 openmoko: * add YAFFS2 (for experimenting) Mar 04 14:42:24 openmoko: * add Hardware ECC correction for S3C2410 NAND from 2.6.21-rcX Mar 04 14:44:00 DesktopMa: there are (IIRC) 97 mixers for sound in the neo. Mar 04 14:44:13 right Mar 04 14:44:21 In all the various hardware deices. Mar 04 14:45:54 97 mixers? Mar 04 14:46:17 Elrond: 97 different controls Mar 04 14:46:20 some are just toggles Mar 04 14:47:42 All on the WM*? Mar 04 14:47:52 iirc, yes Mar 04 14:48:26 I haven't read its datasheet, but sounds like a mature thing. :) Mar 04 14:48:50 openmoko: 03werner * r1240 10/trunk/src/host/dfu-util/src/main.c: Mar 04 14:48:50 openmoko: main.c: removed PAGE_SIZE comment Mar 04 14:48:50 openmoko: main.c (help): fixed "Altseting" typo Mar 04 14:48:50 openmoko: main.c (main, help, alt_by_name): added lookup of dif->altsetting by name Mar 04 14:48:58 WM codecs are pretty widely used Mar 04 14:49:07 ipods, tv capture cards, etc Mar 04 14:49:59 Ahh. Mar 04 15:13:21 openmoko: 03laforge * r1241 10/trunk/oe/conf/distro/openmoko.conf: add PREMIRRORS to primarily pull the code from our server[s]. Mar 04 15:17:13 openmoko: 03laforge * r1242 10/trunk/oe/packages/linux/linux-gta01/ (defconfig-2.6.20-fic-gta01 defconfig-2.6.20.1-fic-gta01): enable YAFFS2 Mar 04 15:36:11 damn, I suck at creating Makefiles Mar 04 15:49:29 LuitvD: then use scons Mar 04 16:34:30 Interesting. The google-video of the talk has had a hundred hits in the last couple of days. Mar 04 16:34:34 (total 167) Mar 04 16:34:47 rapidshare is at 200. Mar 04 17:11:55 hi Mar 04 17:24:25 PBeck: Nobody is available to take your Hi at the moment, please wait for an operator to become available to take your greeting. Mar 04 17:24:48 * dottedmag giggles Mar 04 17:26:03 counter Mar 04 17:26:03 P0: 20:59:23 (0.875 +-0.9 days); P1: 32.749 +-10.0 (see faq) (460) Mar 04 17:31:35 SpeedEvil: thanks for the info ;) Mar 04 17:31:53 i hope an operator come on :p Mar 04 17:35:39 http://www.linuxdevices.com/files/misc/fic_neo1973_hackers_lunchbox.jpg <= that is the hackers lunchbox :D Mar 04 17:36:43 i thought that would be the case for the neo Mar 04 17:37:20 and yes i thought wth :P a big bag for the neo Mar 04 17:37:36 but now i know what that is ^^ Mar 04 17:38:35 :P Mar 04 17:38:39 "the bomb squad' Mar 04 17:38:57 openmoko search and deploy team Mar 04 17:39:44 (or search and unbrick... that should be possible with the contents of the hackers lunchbox right?) Mar 04 17:40:00 i hope it fits into my suitcase Mar 04 17:40:00 It can't search, only unbrick :) Mar 04 17:40:10 lol Mar 04 17:41:44 that would be funny... when a neo1973 has some bad problem it sends out a distress signal with GPS coördinates, and that a team of 6-8 people with those 'lunchboxes' come looking for ya :P Mar 04 17:41:53 shame they don't say more abou the hardware refresh Mar 04 17:42:07 so_solid_moo: it'll have to wait Mar 04 17:42:20 so_solid_moo: they didn't even fix the p0's faults yet Mar 04 17:42:55 LuitvD: yeah. I'm guessing that they potentially want to fix p1 faults there or something. Mar 04 17:43:09 so_solid_moo: that's not what I'm saying... Mar 04 17:43:26 the trouble they are having with p0 now, isn't yet solved... I guess Mar 04 17:43:30 how look the neo case? :D Mar 04 17:43:36 we first need a p1, to have a hardware refresh Mar 04 17:44:07 LuitvD: sure, but if they're planning p1+, they presumably have an idea of what it's needed for Mar 04 17:44:46 so_solid_moo: I think they'll do that hardware refresh the same way as the steps to getting the p0 device Mar 04 17:44:52 so_solid_moo: lots of prototyping Mar 04 17:44:59 I don't think so. Mar 04 17:45:02 P1 does not end. Mar 04 17:45:13 It's not one order, you can carry on ordering throughout the period. Mar 04 17:45:24 how can i break the bootloader? Mar 04 17:45:37 Basically, flashing u-boot with a broken version. Mar 04 17:45:45 PBeck: with a hammer and a chisel Mar 04 17:45:45 don't flash u-boot with a broken version. Mar 04 17:46:01 You should only ever need to flash u-boot once. Mar 04 17:46:07 SpeedEvil: i can only flash with the lunchbox? Mar 04 17:46:17 No - with a working phone, you can too. Mar 04 17:46:20 SpeedEvil: I raise that to 'never' Mar 04 17:46:23 You can only flash a brick with the JTAG. Mar 04 17:46:45 You can flash a brick only with the JTAG. Mar 04 17:47:00 ol Mar 04 17:47:01 ok Mar 04 17:47:21 Yeah - the current-then version of u-boot should be fine. Mar 04 17:47:57 IIRC the very early versions on some of the P-1 devices isn't really ideal. Mar 04 17:48:48 the changelog from a few days ago mentions an incompatible change that requires an u-boot upgrade, too Mar 04 17:49:11 when they switched from SW ECC to the S3C2410's HW ECC Mar 04 17:49:21 It should be perfectly stable by P1 time though. Mar 04 17:49:27 Barring silly bugs. Mar 04 17:51:18 SpeedEvil: ok thats good Mar 04 17:56:29 PBeck, ich wusste ich kenne den Namen irgendwoher (nexave :D) Mar 04 17:57:32 denis^da ach sieht man dich heute hier auch mal ;) Mar 04 17:58:03 habe mich schon gefragt wieso du nicht im IRC bist, wenn du dich schon auf der mailingliste und im wiki rumtreibst ;) Mar 04 17:58:43 haha ich bin schon seit beginn im IRC und hab mich im Forum immer gefragt ob ich den Namen nicht doch irgendwo schon gesehen habe :P Mar 04 17:59:05 denis^da: ich habe nicht nach diesem nick geschaut sondern nach dem vom forum ^^ Mar 04 17:59:40 haha ja stimmt ich hab ja hier einen anderen :> Mar 04 18:00:10 ( PBeck nu bekommen wir gleich wieder einen aufn Deckel von wegen zu viel Deutsch ;) ) Mar 04 18:03:08 was hast du im Moment für einen PDA PBeck ? Mar 04 18:08:01 denis^da: keinen ;) Mar 04 18:08:20 denis^da: jo dachte ich mir auch schon, weil du mich deutsch angeredet hast ;) Mar 04 18:08:24 denis^da: jabber? Mar 04 18:10:45 PBeck, siehe query Mar 04 18:11:16 denis^da: anmelden ... Mar 04 18:13:04 denis^da: ? Mar 04 18:13:45 denis^da: freenode lässt doch keine querys zu wenn man nicht geauthet ist Mar 04 18:13:52 ach ;> Mar 04 18:13:58 *geauthed Mar 04 18:14:03 jetzt versteh ich was du mit anmelden meintest :> Mar 04 18:14:13 denis_std@jabber.org Mar 04 18:14:18 ach => wie jo das wusste ich oder ach => wie das wusste ich nicht :P Mar 04 18:14:19 hab keine lust mich zu authen :D Mar 04 18:14:47 was hast du gedacht? ;) Mar 04 18:21:14 nanu , deutsch ? Mar 04 18:21:56 channel takeover Mar 04 18:27:04 Harlekin: yes of course Mar 04 18:27:33 the germans are good in takeovers ;) Mar 04 18:29:32 especially unsuccessful ones Mar 04 18:33:35 Harlekin: yes right :P Mar 04 18:33:50 you are good in history, yes? ;) Mar 04 18:35:09 No HSPDA :-( Mar 04 18:35:17 no CDMA/EV-DO Mar 04 18:36:07 No ponys. Mar 04 18:44:59 In case someone isn't looking at planet.openmoko.org: http://gnumonks.org/~laforge/weblog/2007/03/04/#20070304-phase0 Mar 04 18:47:03 'decided to ship' != shipped I spose. Mar 04 18:47:35 Suppose tomorrow then. Mar 04 18:48:11 Guess so Mar 04 18:49:42 http://voxilla.com/soapvox/2007/03/01/industry-disruption-really-168 Mar 04 18:49:56 "...128 MB SDRAM expandable to 4 GB" Mar 04 18:50:08 heh Mar 04 18:50:08 i think that is not right Mar 04 18:50:28 is the ram expandable at all? Mar 04 18:53:11 No, it's 128mb Mar 04 18:59:53 * SpeedEvil goes to comment. Mar 04 19:03:16 CM: minibit ? Mar 04 19:03:53 :P Mar 04 19:06:58 <_ASK> hi Mar 04 19:07:18 morning :) Mar 04 19:07:34 <_ASK> do someone has the actual phone? Mar 04 19:07:46 Yes, a few does (Not me) Mar 04 19:07:59 And another 50 will get one this week (Still not me ;)) Mar 04 19:08:10 <_ASK> =) Mar 04 19:08:18 s/this/the next/ Mar 04 19:08:21 "actual phone" is a bit misleading Mar 04 19:08:28 <_ASK> neo1973 Mar 04 19:08:53 I meant that the phones that go out tomorrow aren't the final hardware revision Mar 04 19:09:01 <_ASK> no? Mar 04 19:09:13 <_ASK> it's like giving away beta phones? Mar 04 19:09:21 I think the hardware is supposed to change just before phase 2 Mar 04 19:09:53 !counter? Mar 04 19:10:05 is it P0 time already? Mar 04 19:11:16 counter Mar 04 19:11:17 P0: 20:06:46 (0.838 +-0.8 days); P1: 32.676 +-10.0 (see faq) (461) Mar 04 19:12:07 loufoque: check the hardware wiki Mar 04 19:12:08 p0 time = party time? Mar 04 19:12:29 loufoque: it's going to change after p0 and again before mass market Mar 04 19:12:34 <_ASK> i wonder, are they just going to sqeeze linux to fit the phone, or they plan to build a more developed solution for phones? Mar 04 19:13:20 _ASK: linux isn't the problem, userspace is Mar 04 19:13:29 <_ASK> oh yes Mar 04 19:13:47 <_ASK> i mean, in a computer it's not that difficult to modify a text file Mar 04 19:13:54 <_ASK> but on a phone i bet it's going to be tricky Mar 04 19:14:48 <_ASK> if you'll have to find your way through tons of configuration files i bet it's not much an improvement over other phone OSes Mar 04 19:14:54 I a garage it's not hard to change a tyre, but while driving on the highway it might be tricky Mar 04 19:15:21 aargh Mar 04 19:15:30 again I'm trying to argue with a troll Mar 04 19:15:37 * koen goes back to watching tv Mar 04 19:15:46 <_ASK> am I a troll? Mar 04 19:16:00 You do not hack the phone on the move Mar 04 19:16:02 It's not too hard to mofify a text file on a phone Mar 04 19:16:34 <_ASK> if you say so... it's not the first time my treo resets itself and i have to fix it Mar 04 19:16:44 You do it at home, with another computer. You use it as a phone on thr move. Mar 04 19:16:45 why isn't openmoko at that bossa conference about mobile computers and open source software? Mar 04 19:17:12 loufoque: openembedded is, does that count? Mar 04 19:17:25 If it resets, it reboots into the normal 'phone' state. Mar 04 19:18:33 <_ASK> do you guys have ever tried the linux distro gobolinux? Mar 04 19:19:24 The one with the wacky directory structure? Mar 04 19:19:32 <_ASK> yeah Mar 04 19:20:14 <_ASK> it might not comply with the linux cult, but it works pretty well to ease software management Mar 04 19:20:41 <_ASK> i was actually wondering if they plan to make something like that for openmoko Mar 04 19:20:53 koen: only if you talk about openmoko at beer time Mar 04 19:20:57 It has "/Files" Mar 04 19:20:57 Wow. Mar 04 19:21:06 That's almost as descriptive as /usr/ Mar 04 19:21:11 <_ASK> no Mar 04 19:21:18 Naah, OpenMoko comes with a switch board peripheral. Mar 04 19:21:18 <_ASK> the advantage is in software Mar 04 19:21:25 <_ASK> instead of throwing everything in bin Mar 04 19:21:26 You toggle in new code on the switches. Mar 04 19:21:29 LOL Mar 04 19:21:34 Toggle switches ftw! Mar 04 19:21:40 <_ASK> they put each program in its own folder Mar 04 19:22:01 Linux will be _totally_invisible_ to the user. Mar 04 19:22:12 It's a phone. It has games. It has fun apps. Mar 04 19:22:16 <_ASK> if a program starts to act rude, you erase the folder and voila, no things left behind Mar 04 19:22:21 I want a VC on boot Mar 04 19:22:26 SpeedEvil: you do have to put in a bit of herring every hour to keep it hidden Mar 04 19:22:28 Maybe a virtual keyboard so I can type startx if I need games Mar 04 19:22:29 Most users will never ever see the command line. Mar 04 19:22:31 Aww Mar 04 19:23:03 what part of the system is openembedded? it is just part of the build process? Mar 04 19:23:23 _ASK: It makes sense, but it's too bad all other distros already use the ancient-ish convention Mar 04 19:23:35 <_ASK> so what? Mar 04 19:23:40 <_ASK> isn't this a new platform anyway? Mar 04 19:23:59 The linux bit is irrelevant to it. Mar 04 19:24:05 <_ASK> isn't it the purpose of being "open source" to change things? Mar 04 19:24:15 Package managers will handle all the install/remove for you. Mar 04 19:24:16 Hello Mar 04 19:24:28 <_ASK> yeah, but they never work 100% Mar 04 19:24:37 orly? Mar 04 19:24:40 _ASK: So we fix it so they do. Mar 04 19:24:53 <_ASK> oh no, because its inherent to the way they work Mar 04 19:24:57 It's a limited subset of applications that will be supported. Mar 04 19:25:02 _ASK: It's slightly troublesome to change something as... fundamental as this, practically all software assumes the conventional directory layout Mar 04 19:25:04 <_ASK> you install a program, file a gets modified Mar 04 19:25:19 where can I buy a Neo1973 phone? are they out yet? Mar 04 19:25:19 GoboLinux may have some hackish scripts for them, but just like package managers, they can never "work 100%" :P Mar 04 19:25:19 igge: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) Mar 04 19:25:21 <_ASK> you install annother app, file a gets modified again, and then you can't revert it Mar 04 19:25:26 It's a hell of a lot easier with a small subset of applications. Mar 04 19:25:32 <_ASK> if you try to uninstall app a Mar 04 19:25:57