**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Mar 22 02:59:58 2007 Mar 22 04:54:05 testing if it sees this as same nick? Mar 22 05:02:59 Neo1973 schematics might be "liberated" at some point: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/neo1973-hardware/2007-March/000008.html Mar 22 05:09:52 counter? Mar 22 05:09:53 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 source: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/MokoMakefile ; P0: devices shipped at 2007-03-05; a week, 5 days 06:50:07 (12.285 +-7.0 days) for devices for *ANYBODY* for $350 (targeting developers) (preorders: not yet) (2007-04-02); 5 months, 3 weeks, 4 days (178.285 +-15.0 days) for mass market (2007-09-15): see topic for more info (592) Mar 22 05:09:57 Neo1973 is very loud: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/neo1973-hardware/2007-March/000029.html Mar 22 05:11:38 (P0 message changed to P0: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Wishlist:Neo1973_P0_Review ) Mar 22 05:32:08 openmoko: 03zhiyong_sun * r1474 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/applications/openmoko-mainmenu/src/ (callbacks.c fingermenu.c mainmenu.c mainmenu.h): fix warnings Mar 22 05:35:26 openmoko: 03zhiyong_sun * r1475 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/applications/openmoko-mainmenu/src/mainmenu.c: small modify Mar 22 05:47:33 hello Mar 22 05:47:36 anyone here? Mar 22 05:47:37 boiblu: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) Mar 22 06:05:54 might be a silly question, but i'm interested in developing for phase 1, when applicable- do i have to "do anything" to register as a "developer", or will the phone just be available to anyone with the gusto/cash/know-how to buy one? Mar 22 06:05:54 uplinked: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) Mar 22 06:08:45 faq has good list of 'requirements', basically only requirement that is checked is $350 ;-) Mar 22 06:09:38 neat, thanks :) not exactly hoping to write a bootloader, i'm new to embeded dev, but looks like this would be a neat place to start for me. consider me excited Mar 22 06:31:05 openmoko: 03zhiyong_sun * r1476 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/applications/openmoko-mainmenu/src/ (mainmenu.c mokoiconview.c mokoiconview.h): fix cursor item error bug Mar 22 06:50:36 * rwhitby just ssh'd from a Treo650 *directly* into a Neo1973, via bluetooth. Mar 22 06:52:03 cool Mar 22 06:53:07 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Translation]] Mar 22 07:02:41 so now I can develop on the run, using the keboard on the treo to develop stuff on the neo Mar 22 07:03:12 I call it "neotreo" development :-) Mar 22 07:05:09 :) Mar 22 07:43:22 koen: the panel dep from geoclue should be fixed Mar 22 07:43:38 tigert: ah, cool Mar 22 07:45:15 or so keith said, didnt try myself yet (on bus with N800 now :) Mar 22 07:47:50 so its a bit hard to build things from svn Mar 22 07:53:08 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Buying_Interest_List]] Mar 22 08:50:08 good morning Mar 22 08:53:08 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Buying_Interest_List]] Mar 22 09:31:36 morning Mar 22 09:32:11 *waves* Mar 22 10:06:08 (script) openmoko-devel: Sean Moss-Pultz Re: Calculator for OpenMoko Mar 22 10:52:52 openmoko: 03dodji * r1477 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/applications/openmoko-today/ (6 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed) Mar 22 10:52:52 openmoko: Make TodayEventsArea update itself when events and tasks get edited in e-d-s. Mar 22 10:52:52 openmoko: * applications/openmoko-today/src/today-events-area.[c|h]: Mar 22 10:52:52 openmoko: Port this over the ECalView API. This allows updating the Mar 22 10:52:52 openmoko: interface whenever an event or todo item is added to Mar 22 10:52:55 openmoko: or deleted from e-d-s. Mar 22 10:52:57 openmoko: Basically, after calling today_events_area_new(), Mar 22 11:00:24 * aloril suspects that current ETA in counter is too soon Mar 22 11:05:44 openmoko: 03thomas * r1478 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/artwork/themes/openmoko-standard/gtk-2.0/ (openmoko-today today-background.png): Mar 22 11:05:44 openmoko: * Cleanup openmoko-today gtkrc Mar 22 11:05:44 openmoko: * Add openmoko-today background Mar 22 11:09:59 (script) openmoko-neo1973: Sean Moss-Pultz Re: howto obtain the hardware for testing purposes Mar 22 11:09:59 (script) openmoko-neo1973: Harald Welte Re: Problem with battery charging Mar 22 11:09:59 (script) openmoko-neo1973: "Michael 'Mickey' Lauer" Re: Problem with battery charging Mar 22 11:12:07 (just added neo1973 hardware list) Mar 22 11:12:21 eww Mar 22 11:17:36 mornin' Mar 22 11:19:07 Stephmw: morning Mar 22 11:19:28 Ganneff: charging problems are for Phase 0 devices, hopefully no problems in Phase 1 devices Mar 22 11:52:47 mickey|zzZZzz: http://ewi546.ewi.utwente.nl/tinderbox/showbuilds.pl?tree=OpenMoko :) Mar 22 11:54:16 zecke: nice Mar 22 11:56:24 The 'only charge at 100mA on dumb charger' needs to be configurable. Mar 22 11:56:32 mickey|zzZZzz: Al's favorite color is red but ttf-dejavu is broken for days Mar 22 11:57:38 counter Mar 22 11:57:39 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1: a week, 5 days 00:02:21 (12.002 +-7.0 days) (593) Mar 22 11:58:33 SpeedEvil - Any idea how the Bv04 charger works? Does it include an usb-host-chip? Mar 22 11:59:08 SpeedEvil: you can change it after boot, but I guess you mean configuring automatic charging Mar 22 11:59:15 Yes. Mar 22 11:59:56 Including a charger with a USB peripheral is broken. Mar 22 12:00:03 Well - requiring. Mar 22 12:00:22 It needs to be able to charge off dumb chargers. Mar 22 12:00:51 If there is a USB host on the other end, fine, let it tell us if there is enough power. Mar 22 12:01:02 If there isn't, then assuming 500mA is reasonable. Mar 22 12:01:28 Yeah. Mar 22 12:01:47 So the v04 charger plays the role of a real host? Mar 22 12:01:49 *nod* Mar 22 12:02:04 I'm assuming that it's got a peripheral chip of some sort in. Mar 22 12:02:12 As that'd be cheaper. Mar 22 12:03:46 "peripheral chip"? Mar 22 12:04:01 a device Mar 22 12:04:03 USB device Mar 22 12:04:08 my usb wall chargers can give 1000mA Mar 22 12:04:31 yes - but they have no way of communicting that to USB peripherals in a standards compliant way. Mar 22 12:05:02 What's supposed to happen when you plug it in is that the host connects to the device, and asks for its descriptor. Mar 22 12:05:18 This must under the standard be doable at 100mA power. Mar 22 12:05:28 then this descriptor is read - which may ... Mar 22 12:06:32 tell the host that some configurations of the device want more than 100mA Mar 22 12:06:53 if so, and the host is happy to enable it, it tells the device 'configuration x selected' Mar 22 12:07:11 and then on hearing that, the device can switch up the current demand. Mar 22 12:07:30 This is so stuff plugged into unpowered hubs doesn't crash the bus. Mar 22 12:10:07 SpeedEvil: modify /etc/rc.local (doesn't seem to have that though) to add it ;-) Mar 22 12:10:09 Yeah. Mar 22 12:10:38 The logical assumption is, that the neo charger has to emulate an usb host. Mar 22 12:10:56 Not really. Mar 22 12:11:05 If it's only for the neo, it can simply be a device. Mar 22 12:11:08 (which is cheaper) Mar 22 12:11:24 Then the neo has to enable its host part. Mar 22 12:11:48 And I still haven't understood, how that works "safely". Mar 22 12:11:54 if the comms from the charger to the neo is always the same... why bother with a usb host/client chip at all? Mar 22 12:11:55 It works safely. Mar 22 12:12:03 In terms that it won't explode stuff. Mar 22 12:12:26 The lines are all protected from that. Mar 22 12:12:55 So connecting two hosts does not explode anything?! Mar 22 12:13:07 It may - if they both supply power. Mar 22 12:13:11 but not if they don't. Mar 22 12:13:11 * mjr stops soldering... "Damn." Mar 22 12:13:29 But the neo doesn't. Mar 22 12:14:02 Hmm. Mar 22 12:14:37 I think you may get 'can't read device descriptor' in the logs a few times if you do this - on the host. Mar 22 12:14:49 on connected together hosts that is. Mar 22 12:15:06 So u-boot (or the kernel) would need to switch between host/client once every X ms. host to query the neo charger, client to talk to a PC and get charged (and tty). Mar 22 12:16:07 I dunno. Mar 22 12:16:37 The right thing to do is probably to on plugged in from off, switch off, and set a RTC interrupt for 30s time. Mar 22 12:16:54 and charge at 100mA for this time. Mar 22 12:17:16 Maybe 'bleep' then switch off. Mar 22 12:17:43 Wait. Having a mini-B plug, which has a client on the other side isn't compliant with the specs either. So the neo charger wouldn't be better than non-compliant chargers? Mar 22 12:17:44 To eliminate reboot loops. Mar 22 12:18:04 I dunno - it might have a host on. Mar 22 12:18:33 Or simply a couple of resistors that the neo port can read in some way. Mar 22 12:18:56 Logically, you might want a smarter charger, that you can plug into the wall, and plug in devices and hosts. Mar 22 12:19:22 So you can plug a printer into the charger, and the neo, and print stuff. Mar 22 12:21:26 Or - maybe simpler - it could just be 7V Mar 22 12:21:39 if the power supply is 7V, it always fast charges. Mar 22 12:22:02 (though it could also fast charge on 5V - 7V would be an easy signal) Mar 22 12:22:03 That wouldn't be usb spec compliant either? Mar 22 12:22:15 heh Mar 22 12:22:18 Oh yes - it would explode other stuff you plug it into. Mar 22 12:22:20 'usb spec compliant' Mar 22 12:22:22 that would be bad. Mar 22 12:22:29 :) Mar 22 12:22:57 "neo charger destroys mp3-players" Mar 22 12:22:58 koen|lab - The whole story is about "being compliant". Mar 22 12:23:12 guaqua - Wouldn't be good marketing, I guess. ;) Mar 22 12:23:14 bad publicity ;) Mar 22 12:23:16 Elrond: "compliant" is a funny word in the usb world Mar 22 12:23:39 koen|lab - Well, for low level there exists specs. ;) Mar 22 12:23:40 being "compliant" == donating money to the usb org Mar 22 12:24:26 koen|lab - BTW: My dad likes that "SIM in a can" can. He even asked me, if I could order one for fun. ;o) Mar 22 12:24:45 :) Mar 22 12:25:01 if you like you fingers getting sliced to pieces, it's fun Mar 22 12:25:03 Do you still have the empty can? ;o) Mar 22 12:25:15 what is the sim in a can anyway? :D Mar 22 12:25:22 I'm guessing: Mar 22 12:25:26 It's a SIM in a can. Mar 22 12:25:28 guaqua - Look at planet.openmoko.org Mar 22 12:25:38 http://dominion.kabel.utwente.nl/koen/cms/sim-in-a-can Mar 22 12:25:40 i've seen it, but is there something to it? :D Mar 22 12:26:10 guaqua - Well, I guess, you go in the supermarket, buy the can, open it and have a prepaid SIM in there. Mar 22 12:26:16 Elrond: I threw away the can Mar 22 12:26:31 freaky, i say Mar 22 12:26:40 koen|lab - Okay, so my dad wont get it. ;) Mar 22 12:26:49 Hey. Mar 22 12:26:53 Opportunity! Mar 22 12:26:59 The neo'd fit in that can! Mar 22 12:27:55 SpeedEvil - Yeah, my girl friend said "Telefon aus der Dose" (phone from the can) ;) Mar 22 12:28:36 you could even make a neo1800 with two cans and a piece of string ;) Mar 22 12:29:09 Hehe Mar 22 12:29:10 koen|lab: easier to use telephone Mar 22 12:30:03 koen|lab - *lol* Mar 22 12:30:21 And no problems with battery lifetime... Mar 22 12:30:27 I like the idea Mar 22 12:30:43 I should build one and send a pic to sean Mar 22 12:30:53 * Elrond must resist not to post "Subject: Neo1800 - The environmentally clean phone" to the community ML ;o) Mar 22 12:32:36 counter Mar 22 12:32:36 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1: a week, 4 days 23:27:23 (11.977 +-7.0 days) (594) Mar 22 12:35:11 mickey wakes up, it's 1 in the afternoon :) Mar 22 12:35:45 good morning mickeyl :) Mar 22 12:36:03 * xkr47 serves some english breakfast to mickeyl Mar 22 12:36:33 koen|lab - Post your neo1800 pics to flickr! ;) Mar 22 12:36:38 hi xkr47, mickeyl ;) Mar 22 12:36:44 hi Stephmw :) Mar 22 12:37:09 is neo1800 some retro version (as compared to neo1973) :) Mar 22 12:37:25 koen|lab: btw, someone was busy at the beginning of this week to get jamvm+classpath into the oe buildsystem Mar 22 12:37:40 Stephmw: poor guy Mar 22 12:37:41 koen|lab: the neo wasn't specifically mentioned iirc Mar 22 12:37:56 Stephmw: http://www.openembedded.org/filebrowser/org.openembedded.dev/packages/jamvm Mar 22 12:38:08 Stephmw: http://www.openembedded.org/filebrowser/org.openembedded.dev/packages/classpath Mar 22 12:38:12 morning guys Mar 22 12:38:19 hmm too much red in tinderbox Mar 22 12:38:22 morning mickeyl Mar 22 12:38:23 has someone already replied to that one guy on the lists asking for java? Mar 22 12:38:30 no Mar 22 12:38:30 koen|lab: bit puzzling Mar 22 12:38:32 * hrw will push update for task-openmoko Mar 22 12:38:35 i don't know what i should answer, honestly Mar 22 12:38:36 i can reply to him something, if there is some insight into this Mar 22 12:38:44 haven't read the mail Mar 22 12:38:45 but first ipkg upgrade Mar 22 12:38:46 * Stephmw checks Mar 22 12:39:02 "the java dudes are making lots of noise, but apparently produce nothing" Mar 22 12:39:18 the Gsoc thing? Mar 22 12:39:26 and i also think getting full java support to the phone would enable some pretty serious developers to be able to tinker with stuff Mar 22 12:39:28 there is no plan yet, but we welcome work on that. we directly have not that much of an interest to recreate a java environment on an open phone -- alas, we like native apps, that's why we created OpenMoko... Mar 22 12:39:43 xkr47 - 13:28 you could even make a neo1800 with two cans and a piece of string ;) Mar 22 12:39:43 * hrw want J2ME on neo Mar 22 12:39:44 mickeyl: my MokoTreeView plan did not work out Mar 22 12:39:45 mickeyl: do you write or? Mar 22 12:39:52 guaqua: please go ahead Mar 22 12:39:57 okay, will do Mar 22 12:39:59 mickeyl: my only interest atm for java on openmoko is for j2me game support Mar 22 12:40:10 mickeyl: reimplementing size_allocate will not work as I would call gtk_view_column_set_fixed_width which queue a resize for the treeview Mar 22 12:41:21 hmmm... is Sebastian Mancke in here? Mar 22 12:41:59 mickeyl: classpath-gtk + java-openmoko bindings Mar 22 12:43:00 koen|lab: classpath + jamvm is some kind of implementation already? Mar 22 12:43:35 guaqua: I don't know about what it does, I just crosscompile it :) Mar 22 12:43:49 guaqua: jamvm is the virtual machine portion Mar 22 12:43:57 guaqua: classpath is the core java libraries Mar 22 12:44:25 guaqua: jamvm is only an interpreted vm though, so it's not spectacularly fast Mar 22 12:44:41 guaqua: another one to consider would be CacaoVM which has an arm JIT Mar 22 12:44:50 guaqua: it also uses the classpath core libs Mar 22 12:45:09 guaqua: it depends on what you're after... J2SE or J2ME? Mar 22 12:45:19 i'll collect these to the e-mail i'm sending to that guy. cc is going to framework-devel...or should it go to distro-devel? Mar 22 12:45:49 I'm on neither Mar 22 12:45:57 feel free to CC me in Mar 22 12:46:02 steph@tangency.co.uk Mar 22 12:46:27 i'm not on community Mar 22 12:46:31 i Mar 22 12:46:40 i'm afraid it's too much traffic :S Mar 22 12:46:57 aye - I rarely have the time to keep up myself :( Mar 22 12:47:15 I'd say, all interested people should get onto IRC, much easier Mar 22 12:47:26 Stephmw: agreed Mar 22 12:48:06 http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/openmoko-devel/2007-March/000748.html Mar 22 12:51:12 ~curse koen for topposting without removing quotes Mar 22 12:51:18 May you be reincarnated as a Windows XP administrator, koen for topposting without removing quotes ! Mar 22 12:51:30 hehe Mar 22 12:51:39 haha Mar 22 12:51:40 koen|lab: its lame and annoying Mar 22 12:51:51 hrw: well, that was on purpose Mar 22 12:51:59 I tried to be as java as possible Mar 22 12:52:06 ;))) Mar 22 12:52:23 ~fishslap koen|lab Mar 22 12:52:25 * apt slaps koen|lab up side the head with a wet fish. Mar 22 12:52:31 Elrond, ok :) Mar 22 12:52:37 * koen|lab gets back to making a fax decoder in matlab Mar 22 12:52:58 i just love gmail Mar 22 12:52:59 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Neo1973_Phase_0]] Mar 22 12:53:24 mickeyl: updated task-openmoko pushed. it contain changes requested by OH guys Mar 22 12:53:43 k, thanks Mar 22 12:54:02 i actually once had a guy complain about me putting my reply to the bottom Mar 22 12:54:23 openmoko: 03mickey * r1479 10/trunk/oe/packages/ttf-fonts/ (8 files in 2 dirs): oe: backport ttf-fonts from OE Mar 22 12:54:30 koen|away: you should have colored your text #0000ff also Mar 22 12:56:22 openmoko: 03mickey * r1480 10/trunk/oe/packages/openmoko-panel-plugins/ (8 files): Mar 22 12:56:22 openmoko: oe: add recipes for openmoko-panel-[bt|usb|gps] Mar 22 12:56:22 openmoko: NOTE: They should build, but are only skeletons at this point of time Mar 22 12:56:34 tigert: what is the current progress of gpsd "connection" in geoclue? Mar 22 12:58:02 guaqua: it is work in progress Mar 22 12:58:07 I think it expects to have a gpsd running Mar 22 12:58:21 on n800 for example there is some framework to kick it up when needed Mar 22 12:58:23 Has anyone made the gps say a single byte by now? Mar 22 12:58:38 Allegedly, global locate had it working. Mar 22 12:58:56 guaqua: what is needed is more apps that start to use geoclue so we can figure out what works for different needs Mar 22 12:58:58 SpeedEvil - Yeah, months ago. ;) Mar 22 12:59:04 tigert: so it's been started already Mar 22 12:59:13 guaqua: see svn Mar 22 12:59:17 there are several backends now Mar 22 12:59:19 and one is gpsd Mar 22 12:59:21 yes Mar 22 12:59:29 I havent had time to play with it yet, but I think it should work Mar 22 12:59:56 the idea is to have some method to choose the best backend from what works at the given time, but I dont know id that is done yet Mar 22 13:00:02 i have idea about using geoclue as the "where am i and what should the phone do now"-framework Mar 22 13:00:07 Linear Non_Physical route pub_crawl :) Mar 22 13:00:08 +an Mar 22 13:00:08 yeah Mar 22 13:00:12 oops Mar 22 13:00:28 openmoko: 03mickey * r1481 10/trunk/oe/packages/tasks/task-openmoko.bb: oe/tasks: reorder task-openmoko, remove bogus duplicated base task Mar 22 13:00:37 guaqua: "never set my timezone by hand again" Mar 22 13:00:52 guaqua: or "just show me my fricken weather without asking stupid things" Mar 22 13:01:00 but it also includes pretty specific additions to geoclue. mostly the yet-completely-undetailed plan about "my places"-backedn Mar 22 13:01:00 GPS pretty much works for timezone. Mar 22 13:01:05 What is geoclue? Mar 22 13:01:27 Elrond: http://live.gnome.org/GeoClue Mar 22 13:01:33 a dbus service for location Mar 22 13:01:38 so for example you could do stupid "add this place" to "my places" database Mar 22 13:01:42 the idea was to abstract the source Mar 22 13:01:54 so you could write your app location-aware without thinking NMEA or gpsd Mar 22 13:02:02 and depending on the data it would somehow make a fuzzy collection of data Mar 22 13:02:09 openmoko: 03thomas * r1482 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/applications/openmoko-today/ (ChangeLog src/today-main.c): * src/today-main.c: (create_ui): Set window title to keep hrw happy Mar 22 13:02:15 and create an entry into the database Mar 22 13:02:29 guaqua: bergie is planning to do the python / maemo plazer app as a geoclue backend for example Mar 22 13:02:43 plazes.com has one database Mar 22 13:02:49 with social side as well Mar 22 13:02:55 but also being able to specify "when i'm connected to this network" it would know the place Mar 22 13:02:57 ie, it knows places other people have already tagged Mar 22 13:02:59 Ahh Mar 22 13:03:09 am getting an error like so "Cannot create C executables", for gtk-fb...any workarounds? Mar 22 13:03:38 tigert: that's not of much use to my specific application, but rather using geoclue we could get implement the framework in general Mar 22 13:03:47 guaqua: yeah Mar 22 13:03:56 get to implement, i meant to say Mar 22 13:03:58 anyway, there's #geoclue on irc.gimp.org if people are interested Mar 22 13:04:08 I'm still looking for some mapping app. To walk around mark points, average the current position and save the result, that sort of thing. Mar 22 13:04:24 we try to raise this geolocation and geostandards (georss) etc awareness on free software projects Mar 22 13:04:28 openmoko: 03mickey * r1483 10/trunk/oe/packages/tasks/task-openmoko.bb: oe/tasks: add more panel plugins, settings-daemon, and openmoko-today to task-openmoko (thanks Hrw) Mar 22 13:04:43 Elrond: maemo mapper could be ported to openmoko I guess? Mar 22 13:04:51 its pretty nice Mar 22 13:05:59 Once I saw someone, who wanted to do that. Mar 22 13:06:12 Does maemo mapper work on "the desktop" out of the box? Mar 22 13:06:21 (as openmoko apps do) Mar 22 13:06:40 Elrond: if 'openmoko apps' is your standard, yes Mar 22 13:06:58 meamo-mapper requires hildons-libs (but you can patch those out) Mar 22 13:07:30 "he was completely patched out" Mar 22 13:08:07 :) Mar 22 13:08:20 Hmm. Mar 22 13:08:24 someone know how to add entries into usb.ids? Mar 22 13:08:26 we should just have "embedded-libs" Mar 22 13:08:36 instead of different versions of this gnome-based stack :) Mar 22 13:09:01 Does projects.om.o work? Mar 22 13:09:19 tigert: we should start making embedded cluebats for all the gtk and libgnome* maintainers Mar 22 13:09:20 uf. its clean text Mar 22 13:09:37 yes Mar 22 13:09:53 So we could start openmoko mapper there? Mar 22 13:09:56 without forgetting cairo :) Mar 22 13:10:00 tigert: it's infuriating that gnome launches and 'embedded initiative' but refuses to look at patches for embedded stuff Mar 22 13:10:01 well Mar 22 13:10:15 tigert: the cairo people actually have a clue Mar 22 13:10:22 Elrond: or start openmoko ui option in the main project? Mar 22 13:10:29 koen|lab: yea, I heard it got lotsa better Mar 22 13:10:36 ie, the bat worked. Mar 22 13:10:38 :) Mar 22 13:10:46 tigert - Or that, if the main project listens. Mar 22 13:10:49 tigert: only for cairo and hall Mar 22 13:10:53 Elrond: try asking? Mar 22 13:10:53 -l Mar 22 13:10:59 Elrond: the problem is one thing: maemo-mapper.c Mar 22 13:11:11 its one file :) Mar 22 13:11:24 someone with eclips or emacs could split it up in 10 minutes Mar 22 13:11:28 yeah Mar 22 13:11:46 Bus 003 Device 008: ID 1457:5122 FIC Neo1973 kernel usbnet (g_ether, RNDIS) Mode Mar 22 13:11:51 or 3 months and get $4500 ;) Mar 22 13:12:06 :) Mar 22 13:12:19 much better now Mar 22 13:12:21 but I think we should really try building bridges Mar 22 13:12:33 since this is a common battle towards the mainstream gnome / gtk Mar 22 13:12:50 the problem is one a much larger scale Mar 22 13:12:55 i read a posting that impressed me Mar 22 13:12:59 let me dig it out Mar 22 13:12:59 it would be good to have a common "embedded" mode for gtk that does what we need Mar 22 13:13:08 mickeyl: ok Mar 22 13:13:45 http://blogs.gnome.org/view/uraeus/2007/03/15/1 Mar 22 13:13:52 and there the posting from Mar 22 13:13:58 Meener R Mar 22 13:14:04 this guy really has a point Mar 22 13:14:21 * tigert looks Mar 22 13:14:33 it may sound a bit esoteric for john doe hacker, but this is the future Mar 22 13:14:46 and we better start working on something like that sooner than later Mar 22 13:14:55 to prevent all these reinventing interfaces for the Api de Jour Mar 22 13:16:19 plain-gtk, gnome, maemo, openmoko is just the beginning... eventually we get more and more frameworks and then we really lose if we don't come up with something more fancy Mar 22 13:16:41 yeah Mar 22 13:17:00 although I dont think such a layer can fix everything Mar 22 13:17:14 mickeyl: like the etk namespacing? Mar 22 13:17:19 but for starters having a CSS-like capabilities where theme would define paddings and not the app Mar 22 13:17:24 would do wonders already Mar 22 13:17:32 mickeyl, just out of cursity, why was gtk chosen for openmoko instead of qtopia ? Mar 22 13:17:37 tigert: install qt 4.2 ;) Mar 22 13:17:40 empty_mind: licensing Mar 22 13:17:49 empty_mind: and quality Mar 22 13:17:56 and i18n? Mar 22 13:17:59 dunno Mar 22 13:18:02 mickeyl: but with QT it would already be done!!! :) Mar 22 13:18:09 no kidding Mar 22 13:18:11 i love Qt Mar 22 13:18:22 but Qtopia is about exclusive-framebuffer access Mar 22 13:18:29 * tigert doesnt code, so he has no clue Mar 22 13:18:30 and that's not free enough for us Mar 22 13:19:20 * mickeyl notes that the decision was made before he joined the project Mar 22 13:19:29 and that's about all i can say :) Mar 22 13:19:33 ;) Mar 22 13:19:44 the toolkit shouldnt matter anyway Mar 22 13:19:56 what is needed is a common look and feel and behaviour Mar 22 13:20:13 qtopia suxx Mar 22 13:20:13 ya. and you can do this with every toolkit. just some take more time than others to realize that Mar 22 13:20:18 and a sane tools to develop programs easily Mar 22 13:20:23 http://www.hrw.one.pl/2007/03/22/hotpluging-usbnet/ Mar 22 13:20:56 mickeyl: but I think Joe Buck has another good point in that thread Mar 22 13:21:15 mickeyl: doing this semantic layer on gtk is a great opportunity to royally fsck things up :) Mar 22 13:21:29 "lets do it in XML over dbus!" :^) Mar 22 13:22:19 XUL anyone? Mar 22 13:22:33 mickeyl: build failed Mar 22 13:23:53 mickeyl: please mirror this http://downloads.openmoko.org/sources/dejavu-ttf-2.15.tar.bz2 Mar 22 13:25:27 openmoko: 03mickey * r1484 10/trunk/oe/conf/site.conf: oe/site.conf: switch to belnet.sf.net which apparantly has more files than heanet Mar 22 13:25:31 zecke: try now Mar 22 13:26:05 mickeyl: your commit just scheduled a rebuild Mar 22 13:26:35 mickeyl: oh and I hate SRCDATE = "now" as it degrades parsing speed even more Mar 22 13:26:54 yeah Mar 22 13:27:05 nothing i can do now Mar 22 13:27:17 today wasn't schedule as openmoko day anyway Mar 22 13:27:23 so i really need to do something else Mar 22 13:27:25 l8er Mar 22 13:27:29 mickeyl: cya :) Mar 22 13:29:08 zecke: INHERIT += "angstrom-mirrors" Mar 22 13:33:24 openmoko: 03mickey * r1485 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/panel-plugins/openmoko-panel-gsm/data/SignalStrength_00.png: openmoko-panel-gsm: add missing picture Mar 22 13:38:20 * koen|lab notes the stunning silence on the mailinglist after asking for java progress Mar 22 13:40:28 lol Mar 22 13:41:04 so the people with the skills are under NDA and the rest jsut makes noise Mar 22 13:43:14 koehn hm? Mar 22 13:44:12 after all, this hasn't been done before within an open source project Mar 22 13:44:31 koen|lab: what are you refering to? Mar 22 13:44:38 so silence is to be expected when people might actually not be used to working on those issues in the open source context Mar 22 13:51:40 guaqua: check out my tatoos: Mar 22 13:51:57 * Stephmw points to the NDA on his forehead, the NDA on his arms, the NDA on his butt Mar 22 13:52:59 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[GSM_%26_GPRS_Connection_Status]] [[Neo1973_Battery]] Mar 22 13:55:26 Stephmw: :( Mar 22 13:56:17 guaqua: although I'm thinking of no longer doing j2me as a job, I prefered doing it as a hobby, more fun Mar 22 13:56:57 koen|lab: also, the short-sighted priorities of the community (i.e. i wanna do hello world in java/python/ruby) are not addressed because the devs would rather do the stuff they are paid for, working on the hardware to take the project forward Mar 22 13:57:07 Stephmw: it always is Mar 22 13:59:00 hm "hello world" runs with phoneme Mar 22 14:03:50 guaqua: it means that terrence bar and chris heiny as loudmouthed do-nothings Mar 22 14:20:55 koen|away: Isn't that what an "evangelist" is supposed to be? At least that's what I always thought... Mar 22 14:23:14 'keyboard' unlocking gesture could be unique for every user Mar 22 14:23:22 you get it right -> unlocked Mar 22 14:23:31 you get it wrong -> 'type' pin Mar 22 14:23:51 (but of course still allow emergency phone calls) Mar 22 14:27:48 counter Mar 22 14:27:48 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1: a week, 4 days 21:32:12 (11.897 +-7.0 days) (595) Mar 22 14:28:13 hex keyboard would be nice thing to have too Mar 22 14:32:59 guaqua: "hello world" in (/with) GSM more important than "hello world" in python/java ;-) Mar 22 14:33:05 +is Mar 22 14:33:35 why not do the python bindings first!!1 Mar 22 14:34:12 umm.. aren't they partially done for mokolibs too? (gtk, etc.. already have them) Mar 22 14:34:41