**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Apr 03 02:59:56 2007 Apr 03 03:03:46 * aloril was going to wait for update, but I guess some changes are anyway going to be, for example lower limit obviously is wrong ;-) Apr 03 03:07:47 absolute earliest, Friday maybe? (assuming its just software problem) Apr 03 03:10:49 counter Apr 03 03:10:49 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1: a week, 4 days 08:49:10 (11.367 +-7.0 days) (735,144) Apr 03 03:11:03 lower limit is Friday, I guess it won't be before that ;-) Apr 03 03:17:53 actually its quite uncertain whether its easy to fix or if more time is needed, increased to 10 days Apr 03 03:17:55 counter Apr 03 03:17:55 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1: a week, 5 days 08:42:04 (12.363 +-10.0 days) (736,144) Apr 03 03:18:09 lower limit is now just 2.4 days away ;-) Apr 03 03:20:58 whoho. new planet posts. Apr 03 04:35:37 openmoko: 03rwhitby * r1645 10/trunk/oe/conf/distro/include/openmoko.inc: openmoko.inc: Added PREFERRED_PROVIDERs for gtk+ and gdk pixbuf loaders (copied from OE Angstrom conf). Apr 03 04:35:56 * rwhitby does his first commit to the openmoko svn repo ... Apr 03 04:36:54 openmoko: 03rwhitby * r66 10mokomakefile/trunk/patches/openmoko-HEAD/gtk-provider.patch: Removed gtk-provider.patch (applied upstream). Apr 03 06:00:16 His Apr 03 06:00:18 counter Apr 03 06:00:19 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1: a week, 5 days 05:59:40 (12.250 +-10.0 days) (737,144) Apr 03 06:00:52 Ho's :P Apr 03 06:02:54 It's moving sooooo slowly. Apr 03 06:04:14 Still 216 ppl hanging around :) Apr 03 06:04:14 I'm moving too fast - Artful dodger :P Apr 03 06:30:17 good morning Apr 03 06:31:41 Hi Apr 03 07:07:05 counter Apr 03 07:07:06 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1: a week, 5 days 04:52:53 (12.203 +-10.0 days) (738,144) Apr 03 07:09:36 morning Apr 03 07:15:25 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Main_Page]] [[WiFi_support_in_OpenMoko]] Apr 03 07:43:35 Psi_: Ping Apr 03 08:11:25 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Buying_Interest_List]] [[Neo1973_Hardware/zh_cn]] Apr 03 08:12:53 TRIsoft, yes Apr 03 08:36:25 (script) openmoko-neo1973: Harald Welte Re: Getting our batteries to charge Apr 03 09:05:28 hi guys Apr 03 09:05:41 hi Apr 03 09:09:25 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Building_OpenMoko_from_scratch]] Apr 03 09:45:32 morning Apr 03 09:46:19 heya Apr 03 09:48:34 'lo Apr 03 09:54:15 Psi_: late-Pong :D Apr 03 10:25:15 TRIsoft, huh? Apr 03 10:25:54 Psi_: We have a bit lag here with ping times of two hours, sry. Apr 03 10:26:09 Psi_: You told me yesterday to watch my email. What do i have to look for ? Apr 03 10:30:38 did you not get my private message responce? Apr 03 10:31:31 he probably didn't Apr 03 10:31:49 messages from unregistered nicks just get dropped Apr 03 10:31:49 Psi_: Here ? Sorry, no. But i'm registered... *lookspuzzled* Apr 03 10:32:02 TRIsoft: aye, but he doesn't seem to be Apr 03 10:32:14 Stephmw: OK, that's a reason Apr 03 10:32:32 when i said, "check your mail", i was referring to the announcement about phase1 Apr 03 10:32:59 you had just joined the channel and said "morning" so i figured you wouldnt have seen it yet Apr 03 10:34:17 Psi_: Aaah. OK. Apr 03 10:35:11 did you get my test responce to your test, just now? Apr 03 10:35:38 Psi_: Nope. Apr 03 10:37:47 hehe, yeah, it must drop all PMs from non registered nicks Apr 03 10:38:35 Psi_: Yes, it does :-( Apr 03 10:38:48 TRIsoft: did you get mine? Apr 03 10:38:53 ah, you did :) Apr 03 10:39:16 I wish it informed the sender when it drops the message Apr 03 10:39:57 Stephmw: Yep. Would be a nice idea just for the case you forget to register after loggin in... Apr 03 10:45:22 counter Apr 03 10:45:22 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1: a week, 5 days 01:14:37 (12.052 +-10.0 days) (739,144) Apr 03 11:53:44 is openmoko based neo1973 count Apr 03 11:54:54 wha? Apr 03 11:54:55 SrRaven: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) Apr 03 12:01:30 "Utilizing the Marvell® 88W8385 module and an open source driver available under GPL, the wifistix expansion board can be operated at speeds of 54 Mbps Ethernet, connects to any gumstix connex motherboard via the 92-pin bus header and has an onboard power input connecto" Apr 03 12:02:03 is that not a solution to the "where's the wifi" problem? Apr 03 12:02:25 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[OpenMoko_under_QEMU]] Apr 03 12:02:46 WiggleCat: it's a powerhungry big chip Apr 03 12:02:57 just look at the size of the wifistix board Apr 03 12:04:42 :'( Apr 03 12:09:34 WiggleCat: and 8385 lack GPL driver Apr 03 12:10:48 "an open source driver available under GPL" Apr 03 12:11:09 WiggleCat: we work to get driver working on it Apr 03 12:11:27 :) Apr 03 12:36:45 does someone have script to send PIN to gsm modem? Apr 03 12:48:56 hrw nope. i use a sim without pin atm, but when you connect to the gsmd you can get the event Apr 03 12:49:30 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Gsmd#Usage_of_shell_mode documents that Apr 03 12:54:18 roh: nokia6210 refused to disable pin on card which I use Apr 03 12:56:49 mickeyl: five more days :) Apr 03 12:57:33 lol Apr 03 12:57:50 Grand Sarcastic old Coder? Apr 03 12:58:13 Google Share Of Cash Apr 03 12:58:25 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Neo1973]] Apr 03 12:59:24 hrw: mallum forces you to not use google? Apr 03 13:00:24 zecke: no. it was my decision to not mentor during this year Apr 03 13:02:38 root@fic-gta01:~$ uptime Apr 03 13:02:39 13:02:44 up 13 days, 22:51, 3 users, load average: 0.00, 0.00, 0.00 Apr 03 13:02:43 still hasn't crashed :) Apr 03 13:03:40 hmm.. mysql database dump of hrw.one.pl is 99M.. Apr 03 13:13:32 are there any updates on the wifi ? Apr 03 13:13:32 When version 1 was designed there was no sufficiently low-power WiFi chip available which has an open driver. You can attach (battery) powered USB hub to Neo1973 and then use supported WiFi USB stick. Also some model later this year probably will include WiFi. For more information see http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ#Q:_What_is_the_rationale_behind_the_exclusion_of_WiFi.3F Apr 03 13:15:58 hrw you live in poland or nl ? Apr 03 13:20:21 djsuszi: Poland Apr 03 13:35:04 openmoko: 03rob * r1646 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/openmoko-libs/ (ChangeLog libmokoui/moko-dialog.c libmokoui/moko-dialog.h): (log message trimmed) Apr 03 13:35:04 openmoko: 2007-04-03 Rob Bradford Apr 03 13:35:04 openmoko: * libmokoui/moko-dialog.c: (moko_dialog_add_button), Apr 03 13:35:04 openmoko: (moko_dialog_add_button_secondary), Apr 03 13:35:04 openmoko: (moko_dialog_set_button_secondary), Apr 03 13:35:05 openmoko: (moko_dialog_get_button_secondary): Apr 03 13:35:10 openmoko: Provide framework for easily dealing with secondary buttons. Apr 03 14:10:24 counter Apr 03 14:10:24 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1: a week, 4 days 21:49:35 (11.909 +-10.0 days) (740,144) Apr 03 14:10:46 hi Apr 03 14:16:44 openmoko: 03andrew * r1647 10/trunk/src/host/qemu-neo1973/ (7 files in 3 dirs): Apr 03 14:16:44 openmoko: Allow multiple devices on each UART, add modem ioctls. Apr 03 14:16:44 openmoko: Invert GSM power-on signal. Apr 03 14:16:44 openmoko: Explicitely use bash and GNU make in scripts. (GNU echo is still needed so we're not 100% BSD-friendly yet) Apr 03 14:20:50 Hi Apr 03 14:21:04 Hji. Apr 03 14:21:36 openmoko: 03mickey * r1648 10/trunk/oe/packages/openmoko-pim/ (3 files in 2 dirs): oe: openmokofy dates Apr 03 14:41:04 Erasing Nand...Writing to Nand... done Apr 03 14:41:04 GTA01Bv4 # ^C Apr 03 14:41:04 167:[10:40am]:dho@dho:~/svn.openmoko.org/trunk/src/host/qemu-neo1973# uname -a Apr 03 14:41:04 FreeBSD dho.coyotepoint.com 6.2-STABLE FreeBSD 6.2-STABLE #3: Fri Feb 23 16:45:30 EST 2007 dho@dho.coyotepoint.com:/usr/obj/usr/src/sys/SMP i386 Apr 03 14:41:07 :) Apr 03 14:41:49 Hmm. Is mokomakefile supposed to set the permissions for the files it creates to something evil? All files were created with 0400 and all directories with the sticky bit set... Apr 03 14:42:53 Rakshasa it just calles bitbake and mtn for you.. which files exactly do you mean? Apr 03 14:44:46 roh: I'm pretty sure it was all the files, but I run into problems when trying to edit an include file in build/. Apr 03 14:45:43 * dho wonders where balrog-kun is Apr 03 14:47:27 hi Apr 03 14:47:56 hi there guys Apr 03 14:48:22 bedboi, hullo Apr 03 14:48:51 so i decied to get The Phone Apr 03 14:49:17 is here somebody interested in translation issues? Apr 03 14:49:45 bedboi, you find right place to come ) Apr 03 14:50:34 Any_Key: I prefer solutions Apr 03 14:51:12 Any_Key: yep i know. Apr 03 14:51:13 :) Apr 03 14:51:24 koen|lab: there? Apr 03 14:51:58 ozamosi, for what for translation? I just want somebody to speak to about translation HOWTO in wiki Apr 03 14:52:25 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Buying_Interest_List]] Apr 03 14:52:50 Just a bad joke... Apr 03 14:52:54 wow Apr 03 14:53:00 would have more time for hacking :( Apr 03 14:53:01 openmoko is booting in qemu on FreeBSD :) Apr 03 14:53:10 my PhD is taking too much time Apr 03 14:53:27 bedboi, two of him here Apr 03 14:54:25 ozamosi, I'm little tired so my sense of humor definitely NOT in the good shape :-) Apr 03 14:55:00 Any_Key: do you know how to get neo? Apr 03 14:55:05 HAHAHA Apr 03 14:55:07 this rocks Apr 03 14:56:05 bedboi, wait until initial release for early adopters & buy it Apr 03 14:56:09 counter Apr 03 14:56:09 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1: a week, 4 days 21:03:50 (11.878 +-10.0 days) (741,145) Apr 03 14:56:23 that's too much Apr 03 14:56:25 http://www.databits.net/~dho/openmoko/ <-- openmoko in qemu in FreeBSD Apr 03 14:56:25 :) Apr 03 14:56:28 kidding Apr 03 14:56:32 rather Apr 03 14:56:35 in qemu-neo1973 Apr 03 14:59:14 Wow, the bandwidth for that server's gonna be b0rken with all the downloads of those pics Apr 03 14:59:34 Seems kinda slow ^^ Apr 03 14:59:45 pete's dsl :D Apr 03 14:59:48 * dho bbl, meeting Apr 03 14:59:59 ^^ Apr 03 15:07:22 dho: thanks for the pics, i'm even more intrigued about openmoko and indeed the Neo now >.< Apr 03 15:17:42 * xkr47 wonders if people will start demanding phase 0.9 phones at some point Apr 03 15:36:31 wow. laf0rge and sean are coming to Bangalore Apr 03 15:38:09 xkr47: for realz, man. the wait is killing me. Apr 03 15:51:25 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Translation_HOWTO]] [[Wish_List]] [[OpenMoko_under_QEMU]] [[User:Surenk]] Apr 03 15:51:52 hey Vitaly :) Apr 03 16:14:54 if somebody interested in translation, please take look at [[Translation_HOWTO]] on wiki, it needs massive improving Apr 03 16:15:49 gtg cu Apr 03 16:16:20 Id be interested in translation,but I guess enough germans that will do it with more clue about the whole thingy Apr 03 16:16:47 I'd help with german translation if needed Apr 03 16:17:01 see,we germans are everywhere! Apr 03 16:17:21 woulndt be my first translation of an os-project (but the 2nd one ^^) Apr 03 16:17:41 I only translated parts of a game Apr 03 16:26:28 I'v translated FAQ once. It does not matter what you have done before, matters what you will do Apr 03 16:27:04 How would people feel about setting up a Pootle server for the translations? Apr 03 16:27:19 translations of what from what to what? Apr 03 16:27:52 All openmoko apps into all languages for which theer are volunteers. Apr 03 16:29:11 friedel: i'm all for it Apr 03 16:29:20 friedel: if it's actually of use, that is Apr 03 16:30:42 It can help with assigning work, keeping stats and ensuring quality. Apr 03 16:30:49 I'm working on it, so I might be biased :-) Apr 03 16:30:54 ;) Apr 03 16:33:15 friedel, I dont know much about pootle, if it worth it I'm pro Apr 03 16:34:30 hey I have pootle client in my distro (Debian) Apr 03 16:34:35 good Apr 03 16:34:40 :-) Apr 03 16:36:31 Any_Key: That will be the server. Apr 03 16:36:36 Any web browser is a client. Apr 03 16:37:02 But if you prefer, you can still translate using a normal offline translation program and just upload the translated file. Apr 03 16:37:03 not necessarily. Apr 03 16:37:09 you can browse off-line Apr 03 16:37:18 I've scanned aplication dirs, just some of app have PO's or POT's Apr 03 16:37:34 all files already in svn tree Apr 03 16:38:43 friedel: you could maybe send something about pootle to the lists Apr 03 16:39:32 Perhaps I should, but I don't want to be pushing my own tool too stronly :-) Apr 03 16:39:41 all we have to do, just ask package devs provide POT's Apr 03 16:39:53 Also, we will need it someone to host and admin the server. Apr 03 16:40:40 But I think pootle.openmoko.org will be a great asset. Apr 03 16:40:57 OK guys I'v to run see you next time Apr 03 16:40:59 It makes it much easier for translators to get involved. Apr 03 16:41:03 Bye! Apr 03 16:41:21 i don't see a reason not to do it Apr 03 16:48:50 guaqua: I see now I have already written to the mailing list. Apr 03 16:48:55 31 January Apr 03 16:49:25 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Translation_HOWTO]] Apr 03 17:16:59 any pointers on this error? http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/13702/ Apr 03 17:22:31 counter Apr 03 17:22:31 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1: a week, 4 days 18:37:28 (11.776 +-10.0 days) (742,145) Apr 03 17:23:16 trying the build with moko make file Apr 03 17:23:32 says glibc v. 2.4 not available Apr 03 17:24:04 glibc-2.4-11 is installed on the machine Apr 03 17:24:29 is it referring to an ARM glibc library? Apr 03 17:47:25 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[UI_Improvements]] Apr 03 17:57:42 anybody played with dasher (http://www.inference.phy.cam.ac.uk/dasher/) on the neo? Apr 03 17:57:42 elektrolott: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) Apr 03 17:58:30 elektrolott: I used to work on Dasher. Should be a good fit for the Neo, haven't tried it. Apr 03 17:58:49 seems like dasher would be slightly cramped Apr 03 17:59:23 it seems IMHO to be a good text input method for the neo. Apr 03 17:59:35 it usually requires 150px vertical, and doesn't care too much about horizontal. Apr 03 17:59:47 (150 again would probably be fine) Apr 03 18:00:18 that's tiny. Apr 03 18:00:24 isn't the screen 480x640? Apr 03 18:00:39 yeah. people have been using dasher on iPaqs for 7 years or something. Apr 03 18:00:39 DukeOfURL when using the mokomakefile edit it and comment in the line which sets OPENMOKO_MTN_REV somewhere at the start Apr 03 18:00:42 and on the Zaurus Apr 03 18:00:43 I don't even think I could see all the letters in dasher at that size Apr 03 18:01:05 dho: you don't need to; you need to see the four or five strongly-predicted ones for where you are right now Apr 03 18:01:18 I know, I've used dasher Apr 03 18:01:22 and you need to understand how to get to the weakly-predicted ones (by using alphabetical order) for when you can't Apr 03 18:01:52 right; I'm just saying, I thought it would need lots of vertical resolution too, but it turns out it doesn't because you only need to see three or boxes at once, as waypoints. Apr 03 18:02:02 *or four Apr 03 18:02:04 makes sense. Apr 03 18:02:06 cjb: do you have acdess to a neo? if yes, could you make a video of dasher on the neo? Apr 03 18:02:30 elektrolott: guess so. I'd have to cross-compile Dasher, a little busy lately. Apr 03 18:02:39 My big problem is that I code way more than I type all day (irrelevent to neo, I know), so I'm unable to really use it :( Apr 03 18:02:53 roh: it is already commented out: # OPENMOKO_MTN_REV = e2dbb52fe39df7ef786b6068f6178f29508dfded Apr 03 18:02:53 It doesn't work well for coding ime Apr 03 18:02:58 You can make special alphabets. Apr 03 18:03:03 including coding ones. Apr 03 18:03:06 counter Apr 03 18:03:06 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1: a week, 4 days 17:56:53 (11.748 +-10.0 days) (743,145) Apr 03 18:03:10 DukeOfURL eh comment in Apr 03 18:03:35 DukeOfURL else it will update oe continously which breaks things more often than needed. Apr 03 18:03:42 any pointers on this error? http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/13702/ Apr 03 18:03:51 I played with dasher about a year ago on my PC and I can envision it would be great for SMS Apr 03 18:04:57 tuxmaniac try what i told Duke. remove the # in front of OPENMOKO_MTN_REV and make update Apr 03 18:05:11 then make setup and it should build again Apr 03 18:05:26 roh, let me try Apr 03 18:05:36 elektrolott: perhaps -- it requires a somewhat steady hand and a lot of visual attention, and SMS doesn't (especially if you learn what you need to disambiguate and what you don't, with T9)l Apr 03 18:06:13 dho: yes, it's purely an n-gram language model, there's no grammar, it doesn't pick up any programming constructs. Apr 03 18:06:39 cjb: Which is too bad because I'd really like to find something that would make coding less of a problem for my hands Apr 03 18:06:56 cjb: that may be true with tactile (hardware) buttons. I guess it will be much harder on the neo. Apr 03 18:07:09 cjb: hitting shift all the (C obviously requires it a lot) really strains them out :( Apr 03 18:09:17 elektrolott: oh, yes, the Neo would certainly require an impossibly steady hand. Dasher corrects for noisy input much, much better than an on-screen keyboard. Apr 03 18:09:38 (since Dasher's like driving a car -- if you oversteer in one direction, you just compensate in the other direction later.) Apr 03 18:10:25 unless you crash! Apr 03 18:10:33 Stroke or 'handwriting' recognition may be easier in some cases. Apr 03 18:10:34 (though I guess that can happen with dasher too!) ;D Apr 03 18:10:44 dasher requires constant staring. Apr 03 18:10:53 if a later version of the neo gets accelerometers (like WII) we could even drive dasher by tilting the neo ;-) Apr 03 18:10:55 SpeedEvil: morse tapping! Apr 03 18:11:54 btw. as the WII is BT it may be a great input device for neo games ;-) Apr 03 18:13:18 tuxmaniac do you have git installed? Apr 03 18:13:47 roh, yes Apr 03 18:14:11 roh: still says glibc-2.4 not available. Apr 03 18:14:36 DukeOfURL that it does for me too, but then selects another Apr 03 18:21:14 counter Apr 03 18:21:15 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1: a week, 4 days 17:38:44 (11.735 +-10.0 days) (744,145) Apr 03 18:22:01 hm :( over week again Apr 03 18:24:19 SpeedEvil: How does one generate a root filesystem image? Apr 03 18:26:06 (Do I need to peek at the makefiles to figure that out?) Apr 03 18:28:35 (I don't see anything obvious after grepping in any case) Apr 03 18:35:32 Are there any free(as in freedom) cellular phones you can currently buy and use to make calls with? Apr 03 18:36:39 cjb: did dasher get 100x faster in the past two years? Apr 03 18:37:01 sid: huh? Apr 03 18:40:03 cjb: dasher was *extremely* slow on arm last time I tried it (qvga, 400MHz cpu) Apr 03 18:40:32 isd you mean freesoftware? Apr 03 18:41:27 what I really like about dasher is that I can switch languages (even during entering text). That's really nice for a German like me living in the USA :-) Apr 03 18:41:35 wookieface: yes, free software Apr 03 18:42:15 what? Apr 03 18:42:25 sid meant me Apr 03 18:42:28 what's dasher? Apr 03 18:42:31 oh, ok :p Apr 03 18:42:32 the evil tbacompletion Apr 03 18:42:34 a cleaning powder? Apr 03 18:42:38 sid there isnt one yet Apr 03 18:42:49 woglinde: Will OpenMoko be the first? Apr 03 18:42:51 loufoque: http://www.inference.phy.cam.ac.uk/dasher/ Apr 03 18:42:55 sid the neo will ne first Apr 03 18:42:59 be Apr 03 18:43:18 green phone has issues and the motos too Apr 03 18:43:47 woglinde: neo 1973? Apr 03 18:44:05 " Dasher can be used to write efficiently in any language." even chinese? Apr 03 18:44:21 sid yes neo is the hardware Apr 03 18:44:28 openmoko the software Apr 03 18:44:30 loufoque: it supports many eastern languages Apr 03 18:44:49 :) Apr 03 18:45:52 japanese and chinese aren't supported Apr 03 18:47:51 loufoque: the version available on ubuntu (aptitude install dasher dasher-data) supports 7 chinese alpabets Apr 03 18:48:13 also hiragana and Japanese Apr 03 18:48:24 there is only partial support for chinese and japanese according to the official dasher project page Apr 03 18:48:56 as I am unfamiliar with these languages I cant tell how complete thet are but you may test yourself ;-) Apr 03 18:49:07 I tried dasher some months ago and it wasn't really usable imho (means on screen keyboard and other things like this are faster) Apr 03 18:49:53 looking at the track record of asian hackers, they probably forked dasher to add CJKV and never pushed the patches upstream Apr 03 18:50:00 I haven't used it on a mobile device, but on the PC with the mouse it works reasonable well for me :-) Apr 03 18:51:17 The dasher I just installed (sudo aptitude install dasher dasher-data) is 4.0.2 Apr 03 18:51:23 imho microsofts transscriber is really good, but it should be hard to write a free handwriting recognition system which is so good. Apr 03 18:51:30 i didn't like dasher that much...hexinput is more useful for latin letters Apr 03 18:51:36 probably faster too Apr 03 18:53:44 guaqua, I have seen some screenshots of hexinput and dont really understand what makes it better than a normal qwerty keyboard Apr 03 18:54:11 thomasg_: haven't tried it in practice myself, either Apr 03 18:55:08 thomasg_: but when you begin to learn the positions of the letters, you can do syllables (or even short words) in the same time you do single letter in normal screen keyboard Apr 03 18:55:10 I mean, hexinput is only a normal "keyboard" with a layout different to qwerty and hex-shaped keys Apr 03 18:55:15 no it's not Apr 03 18:55:50 it's not about tapping, it's about sliding the stylus Apr 03 18:56:29 so hexinput changes the layout while "typing"? Apr 03 18:56:47 or how else would it possible to slide without tab? Apr 03 18:56:49 no Apr 03 18:57:18 but rather the keys are put into an order they are most effectively used Apr 03 18:57:47 for example the space key is in the middle and the 6 most often used letters might be next to it Apr 03 18:57:58 ok, that might be, but I cannot believe, that it works so good. especially if you are using non-english words and shortcuts Apr 03 18:58:14 non-english needs non-english layout Apr 03 18:58:14 i think dasher would beat it in that sense as it is context sensitive (just like T9) Apr 03 18:58:21 Dasher is funny but not especially fast Apr 03 18:58:25 which might be completely different from the english layout Apr 03 18:58:50 for symbian phones there is another interesting app, but it is not easy, too. its called ringwrite(r) or so Apr 03 18:58:52 t9 sucks, if you ask me. it'd need more heuristic analyzing Apr 03 18:59:00 you can adjust the speed of dasher and I believe if you get used to it you can make it go very fast Apr 03 18:59:22 thomasg_: do you have an url for that? Apr 03 18:59:39 guaqua, of course, just a moment Apr 03 19:00:12 http://www.ring-writer.com/web/en/home.html Apr 03 19:00:12 I find t9 quite satisfying Apr 03 19:00:26 theres also a flash demo Apr 03 19:01:11 T9 is not good if you need to mix languages (like German/English) Apr 03 19:01:35 i've never needed to mix them in the same message Apr 03 19:01:39 at moment its a j2me app iirc. the bad is, that you have to use ringwriters textinterface, you can't just choose it as input method Apr 03 19:01:43 ring writer is just T9 with a ring Apr 03 19:01:49 thomasg_: that's like a copy of shapewriter Apr 03 19:01:58 it's quite a good idea though, since it allows better usage of the stylus Apr 03 19:01:59 don't know Apr 03 19:02:25 I used it once on my nokia 7710 (also only-touchscreen device) and it doesnt work how I wanted. Apr 03 19:02:29 my current phone Razr does not even have a german T9 dictionary as it is a US model :-( Apr 03 19:02:43 i hate my nokia and it's t9 Apr 03 19:02:46 thats why I need a neo :-) Apr 03 19:02:47 the gesture stuff is also interesting Apr 03 19:02:54 guaqua, you can turn it off :) Apr 03 19:02:54 it lacks the regular curse words altogether Apr 03 19:03:07 it's still faster than without it Apr 03 19:03:14 but annoys the hell out of me Apr 03 19:03:16 that's the power of open source add your own curse works ;-) Apr 03 19:03:25 yeah Apr 03 19:03:31 i mean, those should be in by default Apr 03 19:03:39 well, I'd really like to have a real handwriting recognition on my neo. but even nokia didn't make it to write a really good one Apr 03 19:03:40 as they are part of communication Apr 03 19:03:56 palm's graffiti is okay, but it's pretty slow too Apr 03 19:03:57 the one microsoft bought (transcriber) is the best handwriting recognition I have seen Apr 03 19:04:20 I vote for voice recognition :-) Apr 03 19:04:36 thomasg_: The Apple Newton had a very good handwriting recognition... Apr 03 19:04:37 neo - dial xyz Apr 03 19:04:45 Now that stuff is in OS X... Apr 03 19:04:46 just like star trek :-) Apr 03 19:04:50 TobiX, I'm too young for knowing it :) Apr 03 19:05:11 handwriting recognition could be good Apr 03 19:05:23 thomasg_: Me too, but I always hear other people praising the Newton... Apr 03 19:06:18 one thing that's slow about the online dasher is backspace Apr 03 19:07:37 thomasg_: also, hexinput could have the same letters more than once on the keyboard Apr 03 19:08:02 and depending on the use, one could use another area of the keyboard...for example for english you could use a different area Apr 03 19:08:18 guaqua, sounds interesting enough for giving it a try Apr 03 19:08:29 it hasn't been implemented, that's the problem Apr 03 19:08:41 however, i've been thinking about it alot :) Apr 03 19:09:41 hm, I'm learning C at moment (at least I try to ^^), maybe I'll be able to develop own applications in near future ^^ Apr 03 19:20:28 so, I tried dasher here again. is it possible to write words which are not in the dictionary? Apr 03 19:21:20 Sure, you can write any word. Apr 03 19:21:25 (script) openmoko-neo1973: Harald Welte Re: Getting our batteries to charge Apr 03 19:21:43 well, but its hard to find the next letter if the dictionary seems not to know a word Apr 03 19:21:54 count Apr 03 19:22:20 what was that bot's command? Apr 03 19:22:20 asdfadf: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) Apr 03 19:22:30 counter Apr 03 19:22:30 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1: a week, 4 days 16:37:29 (11.693 +-10.0 days) (745,146) Apr 03 19:22:37 thx ;) Apr 03 19:22:53 thomasg_: indeed, it may be hard. Apr 03 19:23:13 thomasg_: you can spend a whole minute just finding a damn letter Apr 03 19:23:23 yeah :) Apr 03 19:23:30 at moment I try to write my surname Apr 03 19:23:40 I cannot find the S behind the G Apr 03 19:24:41 will, but dasher is still a really cool idea, maybe it will be a good choise after some improvements Apr 03 19:24:45 *well Apr 03 19:25:33 thomasg_: You can find the S by knowing the alphabetical order Apr 03 19:25:48 find a big letter that is near to S in the alphabet, and look above or below it depending on whether it's before/after S Apr 03 19:25:59 and go down that crack, and you'll always find the letter you're looking for Apr 03 19:27:31 cjb, I know, but the S is extremely small and behind some other letters Apr 03 19:27:43 thomasg_: that's the whole point :) Apr 03 19:27:48 I have the window at 800x600 and its still hard to hit Apr 03 19:28:03 I think you just need practise. Apr 03 19:28:05 and even if the neo would use it fullscreen it would be too small to be really usable Apr 03 19:28:19 you should see me using it on a small screen, then :) Apr 03 19:28:57 wheres the blank in the alphabetical order? Apr 03 19:29:17 bottom Apr 03 19:29:27 space is the only white box, and always at the bottom of every box Apr 03 19:31:22 well, with some training it is usable on a pc. will see how it works on the neo if it will be available there Apr 03 19:35:39 good morning folks Apr 03 19:41:11 counter Apr 03 19:41:12 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1: a week, 4 days 16:18:47 (11.680 +-10.0 days) (746,146) Apr 03 19:41:25 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Wishlist:BuiltInScriptingLanguage]] Apr 03 19:47:23 cjb, I practiced for a few minutes now and it works really good (especially with english words). I'd not replace my keyboard with it, but maybe on a touchscreen it is not as bad as I thought. Apr 03 19:48:54 thomasg_: what is it? Apr 03 19:49:02 one of those special flat keyboards? Apr 03 19:50:54 happy hacking keyboard Apr 03 19:51:06