**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Apr 05 02:59:56 2007
Apr 05 05:46:08 <Mandarino> Hi!
Apr 05 05:46:10 <Mandarino> counter
Apr 05 05:46:10 <aloril> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1: a week, 3 days 06:13:48 (10.260 +-10.0 days) (760,149)
Apr 05 05:52:46 <macky> DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU
Apr 05 06:39:54 <empty_mind> anyone able to access qemu-neo1973
Apr 05 06:40:01 <empty_mind> anyone able to access qemu-neo1973 from svn
Apr 05 06:56:54 <rwhitby> empty_mind: "make update" pulls it in for me - it's in /home/moko/openmoko/trunk/src/host/qemu-neo1973
Apr 05 06:57:33 <empty_mind> rwhitby, got it working. Actually wiki says pull over https but it works over http
Apr 05 06:58:16 <rwhitby> I'll probably add some mokomakefile targets to build it sometime ...
Apr 05 06:58:27 <rwhitby> (once I get around to building it myself)
Apr 05 06:59:20 <empty_mind> rwhitby, sure
Apr 05 07:03:56 <rwhitby> guess I'll make it build under /home/moko/build/qemu/...
Apr 05 07:08:22 <empty_mind> rwhitby, good idea
Apr 05 07:09:00 <empty_mind> rwhitby, or ${OMDIR}/build/deploy/qemu
Apr 05 07:09:13 <rwhitby> why deploy?
Apr 05 07:11:22 <Hopscotch> good morning
Apr 05 07:13:06 <empty_mind> ok
Apr 05 07:16:39 <achaoge> hi, I'm testing "openmoko under qemu" followed "http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/OpenMoko_under_QEMU", but at the u-boot menu,  how to send [power] key to execute?
Apr 05 07:16:40 <aloril> achaoge: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.)
Apr 05 07:17:28 <empty_mind> in case i already have images built do i need to execute download.sh and flash.sh for qemu-neo1973
Apr 05 07:20:33 <empty_mind> achaoge, you need to do it through qemu monitor. There is a command system_powerdown for qemu monitor
Apr 05 07:22:39 <achaoge> empty_mind: On boot menu screen, it display " Press [AUX] to select, [POWER] TO EXECUTE."
Apr 05 07:23:07 <achaoge> empty_mind: where the [POWER] ?
Apr 05 07:23:26 <empty_mind> achaoge, no idea, i am trying to build the image here. I told you generic qemu instruction
Apr 05 07:23:37 <empty_mind> achaoge, did you load software into the build ?
Apr 05 07:24:32 <achaoge> empty_mind: I just followed http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/OpenMoko_under_QEMU
Apr 05 07:25:06 <empty_mind> achaoge, did you exeute download.sh and flash.sh ?
Apr 05 07:25:17 <achaoge> yeah.
Apr 05 07:26:19 <empty_mind> achaoge, no idea, might be able to help you after i have built my image
Apr 05 07:43:49 <CIA-16> openmoko: 03rwhitby * r67 10mokomakefile/trunk/Makefile: Modified to use a stamps directory, to be able to detect and recover from failed mtn downloads and failed svn checkouts. Thanks to Donnie Smith.
Apr 05 07:52:09 <rwhitby> anyone seen this error while building qemu-neo1973?
Apr 05 07:52:13 <rwhitby> /home/moko/openmoko/trunk/src/host/qemu-neo1973/exec.c:1385: error: `VirtPageDesc' undeclared (first use in this function)
Apr 05 07:52:23 <rwhitby> I get it both on Debian Etch and CentOS 4.4
Apr 05 07:53:34 <CIA-16> openmoko: 03rwhitby * r68 10mokomakefile/trunk/Makefile: Added qemu target for building qemu-neo1973
Apr 05 07:54:37 <rwhitby> "make qemu" should now build the qemu-neo1973 target (I can't fully test it, cause the compile fails for me)
Apr 05 07:59:10 <rwhitby> Doh! target should be arm-softmmu
Apr 05 08:06:07 <CIA-16> openmoko: 03rwhitby * r69 10mokomakefile/trunk/Makefile: Fixed the qemu target - now builds correctly
Apr 05 08:09:27 <CIA-16> openmoko: 03rob * r1658 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/openmoko-libs/ (ChangeLog libmokoui/moko-dialog.c): 
Apr 05 08:09:27 <CIA-16> openmoko: 2007-04-05 Rob Bradford <rob@openedhand.com>
Apr 05 08:09:27 <CIA-16> openmoko:  * libmokoui/moko-dialog.c: (moko_dialog_init):
Apr 05 08:09:27 <CIA-16> openmoko:  Remove close button. It isn't on the mockups.
Apr 05 08:11:53 <CIA-16> openmoko: 03rob * r1659 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/artwork/themes/openmoko-standard/gtk-2.0/ (3 files): 
Apr 05 08:11:53 <CIA-16> openmoko: Add (temporary) background image for the MokoMessageDialog and the appropriate
Apr 05 08:11:53 <CIA-16> openmoko: them framework for using it.
Apr 05 08:18:17 <rwhitby> achaoge: "[Space] for AUX button, [Enter] for POWER"
Apr 05 08:18:29 <rwhitby> (at least that's what flash.sh says)
Apr 05 08:19:26 <achaoge> rwhitby: thx
Apr 05 08:19:59 <achaoge> and [space] for power here.
Apr 05 08:25:38 <CIA-16> openmoko: 03rob * r1660 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/openmoko-libs/ (5 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed)
Apr 05 08:25:38 <CIA-16> openmoko: 2007-04-05 Rob Bradford <rob@openedhand.com>
Apr 05 08:25:38 <CIA-16> openmoko:  * configure.ac:
Apr 05 08:25:38 <CIA-16> openmoko:  Need to use gdk-pixbuf pkg-config file.
Apr 05 08:25:38 <CIA-16> openmoko:  * libmokoui/Makefile.am:
Apr 05 08:25:41 <CIA-16> openmoko:  * libmokoui/moko-message-dialog.c:
Apr 05 08:25:42 <CIA-16> openmoko:  (moko_message_dialog_get_property),
Apr 05 08:25:54 <koen> gdk-pixbug
Apr 05 08:41:41 <koen> I wonder why nearly every vender does this wrong: http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=412
Apr 05 08:41:56 <koen> I was suprised that this bug is present on OSX as well
Apr 05 08:42:42 <CIA-16> openmoko: 03mickey * r1661 10/trunk/oe/packages/openmoko-apps/openmoko-keyboard_svn.bb: oe: remove openmoko-keyboard in apps directory, the new location is openmoko-inputmethods
Apr 05 08:44:30 <koen> "the total number of allocated numbers for mobile phones in .nl will reach 60million" 
Apr 05 08:44:42 <koen> that's 4 numbers per inhabitant!
Apr 05 08:52:06 <CIA-16> openmoko: 03rwhitby * r70 10mokomakefile/trunk/Makefile: Enhanced the qemu target to download images and flash
Apr 05 08:53:34 <rwhitby> does "lynx --hiddenlinks=listonly" work for everyone as a replacement for "lynx -listonly" (which doesn't work on Debian Etch or CentOS 4) ?
Apr 05 08:53:50 <rwhitby> s/--hiddenlinks/-hiddenlinks/
Apr 05 08:53:50 <apt> rwhitby meant: does "lynx -hiddenlinks=listonly" work for everyone as a replacement for "lynx -listonly" (which doesn't work on Debian Etch or CentOS 4) ?
Apr 05 08:56:49 <CIA-16> openmoko: 03rwhitby * r71 10mokomakefile/trunk/patches/openmoko-HEAD/ (lynx-listonly.patch series): Fixed the lynx listonly option - will see if this breaks for anyone before committing to the openmoko svn
Apr 05 08:57:52 <florian> good morning
Apr 05 08:59:45 <CIA-16> openmoko: 03rwhitby * r72 10mokomakefile/trunk/Makefile: Don't use a stamp file to test for existence of OE.mtn, cause we don't want to download it again.
Apr 05 09:03:21 <CIA-16> openmoko: 03rwhitby * r73 10mokomakefile/trunk/Makefile: Don't only use a stamp to mark the openembedded checkout
Apr 05 09:07:12 <CIA-16> openmoko: 03rwhitby * r74 10mokomakefile/trunk/patches/openmoko-HEAD/ (qemu-flash-env-make.patch series): Added a patch to use 'make' instead of 'gmake' in qemu/openmoko/env
Apr 05 09:07:25 <aloril> (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[UI_Improvements]] [[OpenMoko_under_QEMU]]
Apr 05 09:29:25 <aloril> (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[UI_Improvements]]
Apr 05 09:54:24 <aloril> (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[UI_Improvements]]
Apr 05 09:57:38 <aloril> mickeyl: would creating [[V2 speculation]] page be OK at wiki.openmoko.org with some text like "this is unofficial speculation" or should those go to external site?
Apr 05 09:59:46 * rwhitby considers how to split up qemu building/downloading/flashing/running support in MokoMakefile ...
Apr 05 10:00:19 <aloril> (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[User_talk:Fthiery]]
Apr 05 10:00:38 <hrw> aloril: I would avoid having such page
Apr 05 10:00:57 <koen> ~v12
Apr 05 10:01:11 <apt> it has been said that v12 is the next must-have in the Neo1973, http://www.ultimatestupidity.com/pics/1/diesel/
Apr 05 10:01:44 <aloril> added planet and reducing wiki changes interval to 2h
Apr 05 10:02:08 <aloril> hrw: you mean openmoko wiki only or externally too?
Apr 05 10:02:18 <koen> heh, the feedreader comes with preconfigured feeds :)
Apr 05 10:03:43 <aloril> s/reducing/increasing/
Apr 05 10:04:51 <hrw> aloril: wiki
Apr 05 10:04:54 <mickeyl> florian: do you remember offhand what getenv( GTK_SYLUS_DO_FN ) is for in libgtkstylus?
Apr 05 10:06:14 <mickeyl> i thought it would be a global enable/disable, but it doesn't look like it. 
Apr 05 10:07:54 <florian> mickeyl: no - but pb_ would be the one who should know.
Apr 05 10:08:13 <mickeyl> hmm, ok
Apr 05 10:08:20 <mickeyl> but do you set that env var in GPE or not?
Apr 05 10:20:54 * florian takes a look
Apr 05 10:21:18 <CIA-16> openmoko: 03rwhitby * r75 10mokomakefile/trunk/patches/openmoko-HEAD/ (qemu-download-wget-continue.patch series): Patched qemu download script to use wget -c
Apr 05 10:22:26 <florian> mickeyl: no, we don't set it... only the GTK_MODULES thingy
Apr 05 10:22:42 <mickeyl> k, thanks
Apr 05 10:22:42 <CIA-16> openmoko: 03rwhitby * r76 10mokomakefile/trunk/Makefile: Split qemu target into setup-qemu, build-qemu, and flash-qemu
Apr 05 10:22:43 <mickeyl> very odd
Apr 05 10:22:51 <mickeyl> i can't quite follow the logics of tap.c
Apr 05 10:23:09 <mickeyl> strange thing is it no longer works on my PC
Apr 05 10:23:12 <mickeyl> it used to
Apr 05 10:23:47 <rwhitby> Can someone who uses MokoMakefile test the new "make qemu" target please?
Apr 05 10:24:00 <koen> mickeyl: have you started on your moko-devmand yet?
Apr 05 10:24:13 <XorA> rwhitby: will do
Apr 05 10:24:13 <mickeyl> koen: no
Apr 05 10:24:20 <mickeyl> not yet, that is
Apr 05 10:25:35 <koen> robtaylor: I'm about to install hal 0.5.9 on my neo, any stuff I you want me to run?
Apr 05 10:25:56 <hrw> koen: gnome-device-manager? :D
Apr 05 10:26:15 <koen> mickeyl: 10:26:26 up 15 days, 20:14,  4 users,  load average: 0.00, 0.00, 0.00 <- p0 neo
Apr 05 10:26:27 <mickeyl> very good :)
Apr 05 10:26:31 <mickeyl> looks stable
Apr 05 10:26:47 <koen> root@fic-gta01:~$ cat /etc/angstrom-version 
Apr 05 10:26:48 <koen> Angstrom test-20070405
Apr 05 10:26:50 <koen> :D
Apr 05 10:26:52 <mickeyl> try with 266Mhz
Apr 05 10:27:10 <hrw> koen: nonstop connected to usb 500mA power?
Apr 05 10:27:26 <koen> hrw: yes
Apr 05 10:27:39 <koen> workstation -> powered hub -> neo
Apr 05 10:27:48 * hrw wants usb 2.0 powered hub
Apr 05 10:28:03 <hrw> my hub is 1.1 only and I have card reader connected to it...
Apr 05 10:28:03 <robtaylor> koen: time `sh -c 'hald --daemon=no --exit-after-probing'`
Apr 05 10:30:05 <CIA-16> openmoko: 03mickey * r1662 10/trunk/oe/packages/tasks/task-openmoko.bb: oe: ship libgtkstylus in task-openmoko-ui
Apr 05 10:30:29 <mickeyl> florian: next question... are you familiar with libgtkinput?
Apr 05 10:30:34 <mickeyl> i'd like to make it less GPE specific
Apr 05 10:31:02 <koen> mickeyl: gpe-dm needs some work to function correctly with openmoko GUIs
Apr 05 10:32:23 <florian> mickeyl: only a little bit... 
Apr 05 10:32:52 <mickeyl> ok, nm, let me take a lok
Apr 05 10:32:53 <mickeyl> look, even
Apr 05 10:32:58 <mickeyl> koen: we don't use it yet. what doesn't work?
Apr 05 10:33:38 <florian> mickeyl: but it should be quite generic except of the naming of the settings.
Apr 05 10:35:44 <florian> mickeyl: you could take a look at the ptim stuff as well, it implements a more complex input framework and should be modular and designed to support multiple input methods.
Apr 05 10:36:04 <mickeyl> i will
Apr 05 10:36:05 <koen> mickeyl: it seems to dislike the exit codes of the scripts used in xserver-kdrive-common
Apr 05 10:36:07 <florian> i'll try to put that into oe today
Apr 05 10:36:12 <mickeyl> ok, cool
Apr 05 10:36:17 <koen> mickeyl: I tested it briefly, will look into it later
Apr 05 10:36:21 <mickeyl> koen: k, thanks
Apr 05 10:36:30 * koen is mightily annoyed with X not restarting automagically
Apr 05 10:36:55 <mickeyl> i'll need to do a thorough look into both what's published in gpe² and access
Apr 05 10:37:11 <mickeyl> and this time i even think i'll have time for it in a couple of weeks
Apr 05 10:37:21 <mickeyl> *tapping on wood*
Apr 05 10:37:25 <florian> hehe
Apr 05 10:38:01 <florian> mickeyl: we didn't find much reusable stuff in Hiker
Apr 05 10:38:27 * Stephmw grumbles at his build farm
Apr 05 10:39:01 <florian> the gpephone-devel mailinglist archive should contain some of my comments about it :-)
Apr 05 10:40:24 <mickeyl> righto, will take a look
Apr 05 10:40:28 <mickeyl> i'm not subscribed yet
Apr 05 10:40:56 <koen> 18k downloads of gpephone
Apr 05 10:40:58 <mickeyl> re. libgtkinput.so, it is only supposed to handle selections or also popping up the software-keyboard on demand?
Apr 05 10:41:11 <mickeyl> s/on demand/automatically/
Apr 05 10:41:11 <apt> mickeyl meant: re. libgtkinput.so, it is only supposed to handle selections or also popping up the software-keyboard automatically?
Apr 05 10:41:18 <koen> mickeyl: it sends a message to mbinputmgr
Apr 05 10:41:46 <koen> mickeyl: http://www.openembedded.org/repo/org.openembedded.dev/packages/matchbox-applet-inputmanager/files/mbinputmgr-libgtkinput.patch
Apr 05 10:42:23 <mickeyl> aah
Apr 05 10:42:35 <mickeyl> stuff like that should be upstream
Apr 05 10:42:49 <florian> koen: but some few things were dowloaded that many times that i guess it is a bug somehow
Apr 05 10:43:30 <florian> mickeyl: indeed... iirc pb_ submitted it but i didn't end up in a release so far.
Apr 05 10:43:47 <mickeyl> ok, will pester Matthew when I'm calling him next time
Apr 05 10:44:30 <koen> mickeyl: that patch can't go upstream
Apr 05 10:44:35 <mickeyl> i know
Apr 05 10:44:42 <mickeyl> but slightly adjusted
Apr 05 10:44:47 <koen> mickeyl: for the simple reason it contains the substring 'gpe' 
Apr 05 10:44:57 <mickeyl> ya
Apr 05 10:45:21 <koen> florian: are there plans to integrate phoneserver with gsmd?
Apr 05 10:45:22 <mickeyl> so, mb-panel-2 is using the systray.so to enable interoperability with the executable dock applets?
Apr 05 10:45:58 <koen> mickeyl: sort off
Apr 05 10:46:04 <mickeyl> heh, what does that mean? :D
Apr 05 10:46:10 <florian> koen: not yet but i'll definitely invest some time to work on unifying these backends.
Apr 05 10:46:28 <koen> executable docks applets abuse the systray features in current panels
Apr 05 10:47:51 <XorA> rwhitby: gzip -c < splash > splash.gz
Apr 05 10:47:51 <XorA> make[1]: Leaving directory `/home/gg/zaurus/moko/build/qemu/openmoko'
Apr 05 10:47:51 <XorA> ls: uImage-2.6-*-fic-gta01.bin: No such file or directory
Apr 05 10:47:51 <XorA> stat: missing operand
Apr 05 10:47:51 <XorA> Try `stat --help' for more information.
Apr 05 10:47:52 <XorA> Traceback (most recent call last):
Apr 05 10:47:54 <XorA>   File "<string>", line 1, in ?
Apr 05 10:47:56 <XorA> TypeError: hex() takes exactly one argument (0 given)
Apr 05 10:47:57 <XorA> make: *** [flash-qemu] Error 255
Apr 05 10:48:56 <rwhitby> XorA: is that the download or flash script that's running at that point?
Apr 05 10:49:13 <koen> robtaylor: http://rafb.net/p/eQicZx90.html
Apr 05 10:49:38 <XorA> openmoko/download.sh: line 28: lynx: command not found would that be the problem?
Apr 05 10:49:43 <XorA> I only just noticed that error
Apr 05 10:51:20 <robtaylor> koen: hmm, run hald --daemon=no --verbose=yes
Apr 05 10:51:47 <XorA> rwhitby: I am now writing rootfs
Apr 05 11:05:00 <XorA> rwhitby: I now see Neo on qemu :-)
Apr 05 11:05:20 <XorA> rwhitby: so it seems only two problems I had was no lynx and no netpbm installed
Apr 05 11:35:37 <CIA-16> openmoko: 03mickey * r1663 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/applications/ (7 files in 7 dirs): applications: unify names in the desktop files
Apr 05 11:46:12 <rwhitby> XorA: would you have gone through the exercise of getting qemu running today if I hadn't added it to MokoMakefile?
Apr 05 11:49:36 <antenagora> counter
Apr 05 11:49:37 <aloril> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1: a week, 3 days 00:10:22 (10.007 +-10.0 days) (761,147)
Apr 05 12:04:43 <XorA> rwhitby: no way
Apr 05 12:08:34 <giggls> I would be interested in GPS accuracy of openmoko vs. SIRF III based receivers, do you know if anybody did such comparisons?
Apr 05 12:11:04 <hrw> no one here
Apr 05 12:11:13 <hrw> we do not have working gps yet
Apr 05 12:12:07 <giggls> hrw: a data logger would not need any high leven gui stuff, just gpsd
Apr 05 12:12:29 <hrw> giggls: neo1973 gps chip is not handled yet in software
Apr 05 12:12:33 <hrw> in *any* form
Apr 05 12:12:46 <giggls> ah ok
Apr 05 12:19:58 <rwhitby> XorA: any improvements (apart from checking for lynx and netpbm) that you can suggest for the qemu build?
Apr 05 12:21:10 <rwhitby> the next task is to add "make run-qemu" and "make run-qemu-snapshot" targets
Apr 05 12:21:47 <XorA> rwhitby: it all seemed smooth apart from that, it even told me the command line to run
Apr 05 12:21:49 <rwhitby> and also make it easy to run the most recently built image, instead of downloaded files.
Apr 05 12:22:30 <XorA> rwhitby: being able to run built imafe would be good
Apr 05 12:22:33 <rwhitby> XorA: most of that was the existing work done by the guy who committed it.
Apr 05 12:22:53 * Sup3rkiddo distributes beer to everyone...my first build in 3 weeks..yay
Apr 05 12:22:58 <rwhitby> yeah "make run-qemu-latest" will be the target for that.
Apr 05 12:39:32 <balrog-kun> rwhitby: why do you need to check for netpbm? (and what is netpbm?)
Apr 05 12:39:59 <rwhitby> balrog-kun: XorA reported it was required
Apr 05 12:40:17 <balrog-kun> ah, i should check it
Apr 05 12:40:43 <balrog-kun> rwhitby: to use your rootfs build, simply copy it to the openmoko/ directory with a date more recent than the downloaded image dates and rerun openmoko/flash.sh
Apr 05 12:41:03 <balrog-kun> the whole script is a hack for the moment, but it should work
Apr 05 12:41:11 <rwhitby> balrog-kun: yep, I know how to do it manually - just working out how to get the makefile to do it automatically.
Apr 05 12:41:33 <rwhitby> balrog-kun: netpbm is the package which provides pngtopnm and pnmtorgb3
Apr 05 12:41:55 <balrog-kun> rwhitby: ah okay, then yes, splash.pl needs them
Apr 05 12:42:43 <balrog-kun> rwhitby: i'm thinking of adding openmoko/flash.sh --rootfs path --uboot path --kernel path (optional)
Apr 05 12:44:22 <rwhitby> balrog-kun: it would be good to just be able to point flash.sh to the tmp/deploy/images directory, and have it flash the latest files from there.  Or maybe point the download.sh script to there instead of the remote buildhost site.
Apr 05 12:46:06 <rwhitby> balrog-kun: are you ready for the exposure that MokoMakefile will give to the emulator ;-)  (2000 downloads on mokomakefile so far, with 1000 of those in the last three weeks)
Apr 05 12:46:28 <balrog-kun> rwhitby: pointing flash.sh to the directory sounds better
Apr 05 12:46:43 <balrog-kun> rwhitby: that
Apr 05 12:46:53 <balrog-kun> 's cool, lots of testers :)
Apr 05 12:47:36 <rwhitby> announced on the community list.
Apr 05 12:47:56 <balrog-kun> i will change a couple of things when i get ghome today, sorry if i break the MokoMakefile patches (the make/gmake one)
Apr 05 12:48:23 <balrog-kun> i changed it to gmake because of BSD users, but then was suggested a better way to handle this
Apr 05 12:48:52 <rwhitby> balrog-kun: if projects.openmoko.org was working, I would give you write access so you could change MokoMakefile in sync.
Apr 05 12:49:32 <rwhitby> people can just comment out that line from patches/openmoko-HEAD/series to disable the patch
Apr 05 12:50:02 <rwhitby> (until I wake up tomorrow)
Apr 05 12:50:19 <koen> robtaylor: sorry for the delay: http://rafb.net/p/r0UNZL45.html
Apr 05 12:50:45 <balrog-kun> rwhitby: okay. do you have access to the main svn?
Apr 05 12:50:52 <rwhitby> yes
Apr 05 12:51:09 <rwhitby> but didn't want to modify your files without talking with you first.
Apr 05 12:51:11 <balrog-kun> you could just commit the changes to qemu tree too
Apr 05 12:51:14 <balrog-kun> ah okay
Apr 05 12:51:23 <koen> rwhitby: I'd be more at easy if the qemu stuff was a shell script instead of a makefile
Apr 05 12:51:31 <koen> but that's just a personal preference
Apr 05 12:51:40 <balrog-kun> i will do "svn update" from time to time
Apr 05 12:51:45 <rwhitby> koen: you and I seem to have diametrically opposed views of scripts and makefiles.
Apr 05 12:52:10 <rwhitby> and I'm not going to try and convince you ...
Apr 05 12:52:44 <robtaylor> koen: thats odd, it all worked that time
Apr 05 12:52:58 <rwhitby> balrog-kun's stuff is mostly scripts anyway.  the makefile just calls download.sh and flash.sh
Apr 05 12:53:00 <robtaylor> you seem to be missing usb.ids
Apr 05 12:53:11 <rwhitby> download.sh correctly does not much if it already has the latest files.
Apr 05 12:53:17 <koen> robtaylor: what provides usb.ids?
Apr 05 12:53:24 <robtaylor> or if you're not interested in host functionlaity, you should configure ithout usp and pci funtionailyty
Apr 05 12:53:53 <koen> robtaylor: for the moment I'll shy away from machine specific HAL packages
Apr 05 12:54:09 <hrw> koen: usb.ids are not needed if you do not have usb host
Apr 05 12:54:11 <koen> robtaylor: but it isn't hard to exclude usbhost and pci
Apr 05 12:54:18 <hrw> koen: and on neo you do not have usb host
Apr 05 12:54:31 <robtaylor> koen: are there any machines for OE with pci? ;)
Apr 05 12:54:33 <koen> hrw: I do, for bluetooth
Apr 05 12:54:39 <koen> robtaylor: lots
Apr 05 12:54:51 <koen> robtaylor: tons of ixp machines with minipci
Apr 05 12:54:54 <koen> and IOPs
Apr 05 12:55:21 <rwhitby> balrog-kun: would you be really good is if someone at OM server HQ could do a script which symlinks the latest good images to well-known names, and then qemu and devirginator could both use those well-known names without having to do the "work out the latest files" each.
Apr 05 12:55:30 <robtaylor> koen: hwdata, i think
Apr 05 12:55:34 <rwhitby> s/would you be/what would be/
Apr 05 12:55:35 <apt> rwhitby meant: balrog-kun: what would be really good is if someone at OM server HQ could do a script which symlinks the latest good images to well-known names, and then qemu and devirginator could both use those well-known names without having to do the "work out the latest files" each.
Apr 05 12:55:45 <robtaylor> koen: best check out the build-depends in the debian packaging
Apr 05 12:55:57 <koen> rwhitby: OE .dev symlinks images to a well-know name for some time now
Apr 05 12:56:29 <rwhitby> koen: yes, it would be good if lowlevel, uboot and the kernel all did the same.
Apr 05 12:56:35 <koen> robtaylor: http://packages.debian.org/cgi-bin/search_contents.pl?word=usb.ids&searchmode=searchfiles&case=insensitive&version=unstable&arch=i386
Apr 05 12:57:01 <robtaylor> http://svn.debian.org/wsvn/pkg-utopia/packages/experimental/hal/?rev=0&sc=0
Apr 05 12:57:08 <koen> rwhitby: it would be better if there was a human step in between that selects stuff and puts in a seperate dir
Apr 05 12:57:08 <rwhitby> night all
Apr 05 12:57:12 <robtaylor> koen: and dont forget hal-info
Apr 05 12:57:14 <hrw> n8 rod
Apr 05 12:57:16 <koen> 'night rwhitby 
Apr 05 12:57:31 <dcordes> any news on the neo release?
Apr 05 12:57:32 <balrog-kun> rwhitby: yes, i was complaining about the same thing but later koen explained to me it's done in upstream OE already
Apr 05 12:57:36 <hrw> koen: ah.. right
Apr 05 12:57:36 <balrog-kun> rwhitby: night
Apr 05 12:57:38 <koen> robtaylor: http://www.angstrom-distribution.org/repo/?action=details&pnm=hal
Apr 05 12:58:18 <hrw> koen: can you export feeds.db somewhere? I have few ideas for f-b
Apr 05 12:58:47 <koen> sqldump or feeds.db.bz2 ?
Apr 05 12:59:26 <hrw> bz2
Apr 05 12:59:50 <hrw> koen: and it will req mod_rewrite
Apr 05 13:00:12 <hrw> f-b/hal f-b/section/base etc?
Apr 05 13:01:42 <koen> hrw: http://www.angstrom-distribution.org/repo/feeds.db.bz2
Apr 05 13:01:45 <hrw> thx
Apr 05 13:01:54 <koen> 4.3M
Apr 05 13:01:58 <koen> 58M uncompressed
Apr 05 13:02:17 <koen> it's still using the 'old' fb without 'type'
Apr 05 13:02:28 <hrw> next week I will have 3072/512 at home
Apr 05 13:10:46 <noidd> mornin' ya'll
Apr 05 13:15:33 <koen> robtaylor: OE doesn't have hwdata
Apr 05 13:15:46 <koen> 3, 2, 1...
Apr 05 13:15:49 <koen> it has now :)
Apr 05 13:22:16 <koen> robtaylor: http://pastebin.ca/425372
Apr 05 13:25:55 <koen> yay!
Apr 05 13:25:56 <koen> udi = '/org/freedesktop/Hal/devices/computer_backlight'
Apr 05 13:26:06 <koen> inux.sysfs_path = '/sys/class/backlight/gta01-bl'  (string)      
Apr 05 13:26:12 <koen> proper backlight support in hal
Apr 05 13:32:25 <DukeOfURL> what is the recommended Ubuntu version?  6.10 or 6.06?
Apr 05 13:32:41 <DenisBY> hey
Apr 05 13:33:48 <DenisBY> can't run openmoko under qemu. got only "bad magic number" and "Power-off requested"
Apr 05 13:35:52 <DenisBY> also looks like space and enter keys swaped...
Apr 05 13:38:49 <buz> DukeOfURL: depends on what you plan on doing
Apr 05 13:38:53 <Placid> i want a neo
Apr 05 13:38:54 <Placid> badly
Apr 05 13:39:08 <DukeOfURL> for the moko development environment
Apr 05 13:39:09 <Placid> i want to ssh to my webserver and `sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get upgrade` while i'm in the pub
Apr 05 13:39:19 <Placid> just because i can
Apr 05 13:40:59 <robtaylor>  /wg 29
Apr 05 13:41:04 <robtaylor> argh
Apr 05 13:50:19 <aloril> (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[OpenMoko_under_QEMU]]
Apr 05 14:07:14 <Stephmw> ... debugging localisation bugs is a pain in the backside...
Apr 05 14:07:25 * Stephmw tries to make sense of a UI in Swedish
Apr 05 14:08:59 <ozamosi> Stephmw: I'm swedish - you want me to translate?
Apr 05 14:11:10 <sannes> counter
Apr 05 14:11:11 <aloril> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1: a week, 2 days 22:54:24 (9.954 +-10.0 days) (762,147)
Apr 05 14:35:11 <kiney> counter
Apr 05 14:35:11 <aloril> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1: a week, 2 days 22:42:24 (9.946 +-9.9 days) (763,147)
Apr 05 14:40:24 <kiney> on what information is the counter based at the moment?
Apr 05 14:43:53 <thomasg_> afaik old date plus a week :)
Apr 05 14:45:03 <kiney> ok
Apr 05 14:45:25 <kiney> becaus of this instability bug they are searching?
Apr 05 14:45:55 <thomasg_> kiney, in the statement was something about "a few bugs" and they do not know if they are hardware or software
Apr 05 14:46:45 <kiney> ok
Apr 05 14:54:31 <buz> DukeOfURL: probably edgy, possibly feisty (seems much more polished to me even for a beta version)
Apr 05 15:09:04 <DukeOfURL> buz:  I don't understand.  Ubuntu web page says 6.10 supported until 2008, 6.06 supported until 2011.
Apr 05 15:09:18 <thomasg_> DukeOfURL, yes, thats right
Apr 05 15:09:52 <DukeOfURL> does this mean I should use 6.06 because it will get more support?
Apr 05 15:09:53 <thomasg_> windows xp is supported until 2014, vista until 2012 or something like this
Apr 05 15:10:34 <thomasg_> this means you can chose between a version with long term support for old app versions, or an actual version with newer apps and shorter support for them
Apr 05 15:17:07 <roh> DukeOfURL dapper is 'LTS' long term support and thus really good polished.. use it myself (but will propably update to 7.04 on the new machine)
Apr 05 15:17:35 <DukeOfURL> what version of Ubuntu are the openmoko developers using in Taipei?
Apr 05 15:18:02 <roh> dunno. everything supported should work
Apr 05 15:18:13 <DukeOfURL> ok, thanks
Apr 05 15:18:18 <roh> you only have to update mtn to a sane version
Apr 05 15:18:26 <roh> like described in the wiki
Apr 05 15:22:32 <Mandarino> His!
Apr 05 15:29:52 <rhalff> komt ie ook in nederland uit ? :D
Apr 05 15:29:52 <aloril> rhalff: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.)
Apr 05 15:52:30 <DukeOfURL> rwhitby: ping
Apr 05 16:17:26 <buz> roh: feisty works really well, much better than even dapper
Apr 05 16:19:13 * buz is still drooling about that thinkpad t60
Apr 05 16:19:18 <buz> if only it didnt have ati graphics
Apr 05 16:19:48 <thomasg_> the ati graphics chip in my thinkpad isn't so bad :)
Apr 05 16:19:57 <thomasg_> because there are free drivers available
Apr 05 16:20:04 <buz> wel lthats only true for the old ones
Apr 05 16:20:09 <buz> not for X1?000
Apr 05 16:20:15 <thomasg_> ok :)
Apr 05 16:20:24 <buz> and the binary drivers cant even do aigly
Apr 05 16:20:29 <buz> aiglx
Apr 05 16:22:34 <roh> buz: x1300/1400 depending on the series. an yeah, the binary drivers suck. even if you do not care about aiglx
Apr 05 16:27:42 <buz> lenovo switzerland wants 30% more for the intel 950 version
Apr 05 16:27:48 <buz> what kind of twisted logic is that
Apr 05 16:30:42 <roh> buz: 30%more? but not with the big panel res.?
Apr 05 16:30:58 <buz> otherwise same specs
Apr 05 16:31:01 <buz> (less hd actually)
Apr 05 16:32:14 <buz> and of course i want 1650*1080
Apr 05 16:32:20 <buz> wtf wants wxga
Apr 05 16:49:24 <roh> buz: i cannot find any 1650*1080 t-series with intel graphics
Apr 05 16:54:45 <roh> ah.. found it
Apr 05 16:55:52 <roh> buz: but only 2 instead of 2.3ghz
Apr 05 16:59:15 <PBeck> hi
Apr 05 17:10:27 <concept10> would it be efficient to run python apps on the neo1973?
Apr 05 17:10:27 <aloril> concept10: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.)
Apr 05 17:18:00 <buz> roh: what model number?
Apr 05 17:18:33 <koen> concept10: no, it wouldn't
Apr 05 17:18:57 <koen> concept10: only for prototyping, for anything else c/c++ beats the hell out of python concerning performance
Apr 05 17:22:43 <roh> UY037GE it seems
Apr 05 17:24:35 <zecke> koen: python is just a language
Apr 05 17:25:11 <koen> zecke: yeah, php is the way to go
Apr 05 17:26:08 <zecke> koen: I was schocked when I saw pypy's performance numbers
Apr 05 17:26:09 <koen> zecke: did you manage to get gtkhtml[1-3] working with the rss reader yet?
Apr 05 17:26:54 <zecke> koen: I didn't try it. I will re-evaluate my strategy on the 11th
Apr 05 17:27:20 * koen now has 2 1.5 weeks off
Apr 05 17:27:34 <koen> s/2 1.5/1.5/
Apr 05 17:28:10 <roh> koen: then have fun making the best of it :)
Apr 05 17:28:45 <koen> roh: one week is claimed by CELF
Apr 05 17:29:07 <koen> the remaining half by getting a @#&$*@&*($@# SDK built
Apr 05 17:30:51 * koen gets scrared by titels like "How DirectFB Adopted Market Specific Requirements"
Apr 05 17:33:37 <roh> koen: *yikes*
Apr 05 17:33:54 <roh> koen: but greet dok from me if you meet hin there
Apr 05 17:34:09 <zecke> roh: he won't present this talk
Apr 05 17:34:30 <roh> oh, who does it then?
Apr 05 17:34:40 <zecke> roh: http://www.celinux.org/elc2007/sessions.html
Apr 05 17:34:48 <koen> Takanari Hayama
Apr 05 17:35:05 * koen will present the buzzword compliant "OpenEmbedded - Easy QA, Repeatability and Retargeting"
Apr 05 17:35:20 <greentux> evening...
Apr 05 17:35:33 <koen> aka "exploiting zecke: trading code for snacks"
Apr 05 17:35:46 <roh> koen then i wish you good talks there
Apr 05 17:35:59 <koen> thanks
Apr 05 17:36:16 <koen> I hope my p0 battery survives it ;)
Apr 05 17:36:28 <zecke> koen: avoid the words "steal" "violation" "GPL" but use "Return of Investment" :)
Apr 05 17:36:45 * zecke searches some more snacks
Apr 05 17:36:50 <koen> zecke: and MVMD?
Apr 05 17:37:12 <roh> zecke *sigh*
Apr 05 17:37:40 <zecke> koen: as long as they don't get it :)
Apr 05 17:37:49 <koen> roh: seriously, OE got warned not to use "open" too much, since some companies dislike statements like that
Apr 05 17:38:08 <zecke> koen: e.g. try to pick up the MV CEO with a big blinking "MVMD" sign ;)
Apr 05 17:38:43 <roh> koen: then one should sta away from such companies
Apr 05 17:39:03 <koen> roh: sony, motorola and intel?
Apr 05 17:39:06 <koen> (and more)
Apr 05 17:40:02 <zecke> roh: well we are open and integrate :)
Apr 05 17:40:28 <roh> koen: yes. if needed. atm the winds have been never been better for real opensource and i think thats to increase
Apr 05 17:40:36 <buz> roh: yeah i get the ati one for little over half the price
Apr 05 17:40:57 <roh> besides that licenses make it crystal clear what open means ;)
Apr 05 17:41:18 <aloril> (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Neo1973_Hardware]]
Apr 05 17:41:30 <roh> buz you can ignore pricing at ibms site.. we get up to 50% rebate here in germany if ordered by a student
Apr 05 17:41:32 <koen> roh: I have become a bit more pragmatic, I try to spread the word at events like ELC while being 'safe' enough to get my trip funded
Apr 05 17:41:40 <buz> roh: yeah i know
Apr 05 17:41:59 <buz> but pricing for lenovo employees is even better, on the models they can get
Apr 05 17:42:39 <buz> (actually, at times, store prices are better than student rebates which is a shame)
Apr 05 17:43:29 <roh> koen: thats propably the best way of interfering.
Apr 05 18:00:47 <hrw> re
Apr 05 18:13:50 <Mandarino> Aish
Apr 05 18:13:52 <Mandarino> counter
Apr 05 18:13:53 <aloril> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1: a week, 2 days 20:53:03 (9.870 +-9.9 days) (764,147)
Apr 05 18:17:52 <Stephmw> Ooo, the error is decreasing
Apr 05 18:18:15 <ajturner> Stephmw is excitement ~ 1/error ?
Apr 05 18:27:09 <Stephmw> ajturner: s/de/in/ ... you'd still have the excitement :D
Apr 05 18:27:55 <ajturner> I also like how the error > value
Apr 05 18:28:28 <Stephmw> that's a bonus
Apr 05 18:34:12 <Mandarino> Hi SpeedEvil
Apr 05 18:34:15 <Mandarino> How are you?
Apr 05 18:34:36 <SpeedEvil> Ok. Forgetful - I managed to not join after a disconnect.
Apr 05 18:34:45 <SpeedEvil> Has P2 been released yet?
Apr 05 18:34:47 <SpeedEvil> :)
Apr 05 18:35:07 <Mandarino> :?
Apr 05 18:35:18 <Mandarino> First must go 1.5
Apr 05 18:36:39 <Mandarino> Hi loufoque
Apr 05 18:36:57 <loufoque> who may you be, Mandarino?
Apr 05 18:37:22 <Mandarino> :?
Apr 05 18:38:18 <ajturner> anyone else here a Google SoC Mentor?
Apr 05 18:38:20 <loufoque> why do you suddenly say "hi" to a stranger?
Apr 05 18:38:39 <Mandarino> Who is the stranger?
Apr 05 18:38:41 <Mandarino> you?
Apr 05 18:38:47 <loufoque> yes.
Apr 05 18:38:59 <pH5> loufoque: that's what people do on irc. they chat :)
Apr 05 18:39:06 <Mandarino> If I talked to you a couple weeks ago
Apr 05 18:39:35 <Mandarino> You recommend a dedicated server ¬_¬
Apr 05 18:39:35 <loufoque> pH5: I thought people just idled
Apr 05 18:40:04 <pH5> loufoque: hehe. yes, most of the time.
Apr 05 18:41:02 <ajturner> if there aren't more Google SoC mentors (and they vote/comment) OpenMoko won't get any of it's projects chosen 
Apr 05 18:41:33 <cjb> hmph.  I can be a mentor if you just want people to vote/comment.
Apr 05 18:41:43 <ajturner> cjb - and be mentors
Apr 05 18:41:59 <cjb> that takes more time :)
Apr 05 18:42:05 <Stephmw> loufoque: careful, they're out to get you. But you can trust *me*.
Apr 05 18:42:07 <ajturner> there are 57 submissions!! 
Apr 05 18:42:16 <ajturner> and so far I'm the only one that has commented/rated
Apr 05 18:42:32 <ajturner> this is an easy way for OpenMoko to get a lot of kick-off work done
Apr 05 18:42:36 <balrog-kun> i'm a mentor but not for OpenMoko :p
Apr 05 18:42:53 <ajturner> balrog-kun, why not? 
Apr 05 18:43:22 <loufoque> Mandarino: I don't remember anything about a dedicated server
Apr 05 18:43:27 <cjb> ajturner: surely you need to get the people who work for openmoko involved
Apr 05 18:43:27 <balrog-kun> ajturner: because i'm not so much part of the project and i'm already a mentor for a different organisation
Apr 05 18:44:11 <ajturner> cjb - I've pinged them via email, but nothing yet
Apr 05 18:44:20 <ajturner> agreed though
Apr 05 18:44:29 <ajturner> so hoping to get movement from the bottom up
Apr 05 18:47:00 <cjb> I think that's pretty vital to having a reasonable SoC.
Apr 05 18:48:28 <zween> ajturner, I am one of the 57 students. Are there no other mentors, or are there others who just have not rated yet?
Apr 05 18:48:29 <aloril> zween: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.)
Apr 05 18:49:23 <ajturner> zween - I don't work for OpenMoko/FIC, so I don't know who they've approved, that isn't viewable
Apr 05 18:50:02 <zween> ahh, ok. I just thought as a mentor you see a bit more ;-)
Apr 05 18:50:17 <zween> For students, the google page is pretty empty.
Apr 05 18:50:47 <ajturner> zween - I see all 57 subs and total comments/votes, but if someone is a mentor but hasn't done antyhing ,then no :/
Apr 05 18:51:57 <zween> interesting. I thought for mentors that there must be some way of getting to know other mentors. But thats probably coming later.
Apr 05 18:53:34 <ajturner> well, we can "communicate" through comments on projects
Apr 05 18:53:46 <ajturner> but really, it's up to the mentoring org to organize this
Apr 05 18:53:55 <ajturner> other projects I'm a potential mentor for do that
Apr 05 18:54:04 <ajturner> OpenMoko core is just unusually silent
Apr 05 18:54:11 <ajturner> heads-down, full-steam ahead
Apr 05 18:56:35 <zween> ajturner, I am sure there will be a solution when it comes to the real work. and if it is the mentors and students doing it their selves.
Apr 05 18:59:26 <ajturner> right, the projects can happen regardless
Apr 05 18:59:39 <ajturner> the nice thing is, google is willing to throw money at these projects so students can focus - not to mention visibility
Apr 05 18:59:52 <ajturner> it's silly not to spend a little bit of time reviewing these apps in hopes of getting 2-10 funded 
Apr 05 19:04:54 <zween> 254 Users in this channel. Mentors! There must be some mentors under them. 
Apr 05 19:04:57 <zween> I am still optimistic that other mentors are out there and just have not rated yet.
Apr 05 19:05:45 <ajturner> I'm not so sure... :(
Apr 05 19:05:55 <ajturner> unfortunately, Google gauges funding based on Mentor interest
Apr 05 19:06:01 <ajturner> so since I"m the only one, they may not fund any
Apr 05 19:06:05 <ajturner> or just 1
Apr 05 19:06:10 <ajturner> *maybe*
Apr 05 19:06:39 <Clint> do they have to be reviewed before i get hardware?
Apr 05 19:07:23 <balrog-kun> there's really only one mentor?
Apr 05 19:07:27 <cjb> The problem is that the project is so new that most people don't have hardware, yet alone enough experience in anything OpenMoko-related to be a good mentor.
Apr 05 19:07:35 <cjb> Which is why FIC needs to take a lead.
Apr 05 19:07:38 <ajturner> balrog-kun - unclear, so far I'm the only one who has reviewed
Apr 05 19:07:40 <balrog-kun> i think the deadline for registering mentors is closed now?
Apr 05 19:07:48 <ajturner> balrog-kun, it is
Apr 05 19:07:51 <ajturner> I believe
Apr 05 19:07:52 <ajturner> maybenot
Apr 05 19:07:53 <balrog-kun> okay
Apr 05 19:07:57 <ajturner> might be April 11, let me check
Apr 05 19:07:57 <koen> cjb: that assumes the 57 projects are insanely OM specific
Apr 05 19:08:16 <cjb> I think most of the ones on the ideas page were.
Apr 05 19:08:43 <ajturner> they are not
Apr 05 19:09:08 <ajturner> OM specific, I mean that you could know BT, SMS, Electronics, etc. to be a good mentor
Apr 05 19:09:54 <ajturner> balrog-kun - it's not clear if mentor apps are cloed
Apr 05 19:09:55 <ajturner> closed
Apr 05 19:10:04 <ajturner> it wouldn't hurt to email core-team and request to be a mentor
Apr 05 19:10:11 <koen> google is pretty lenient with mentors registering
Apr 05 19:10:26 <ajturner> koen - are you a mentor?
Apr 05 19:10:30 <koen> probably CC: soc2007support
Apr 05 19:10:52 <koen> ajturner: no, I'm hoping to be without internet during summer
Apr 05 19:11:03 <ajturner> heh - wishful thinking
Apr 05 19:11:10 <koen> traveling through scotland
Apr 05 19:11:17 <ajturner> nice
Apr 05 19:11:22 <ajturner> keeping a geoblog?
Apr 05 19:11:45 <ajturner> just post to it via mobile email
Apr 05 19:12:10 <zween> koen, we have nice pubs with wifi in edinburgh ;-) 
Apr 05 19:12:44 * koen was a soc student last year
Apr 05 19:12:45 <zween> "scotland" is no excuse for not being online ;-P
Apr 05 19:13:08 <koen> zween: I suspect the pubs XorA|gone will show me have no wifi ;)
Apr 05 19:32:29 <kiney> counter
Apr 05 19:32:30 <aloril> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1: a week, 2 days 20:13:45 (9.843 +-9.8 days) (765,147)
Apr 05 19:59:46 <Elrond> Hi mickeyl!
Apr 05 19:59:53 <mickeyl> cheers Elrond, how are things?
Apr 05 19:59:58 <LarstiQ> hi both
Apr 05 20:04:12 <Elrond> mickeyl - Fine. :-))
Apr 05 20:04:21 <Magon> mickeyl: hi, are you planning to use raw dbus api or glib bindings?
Apr 05 20:04:30 <mickeyl> glib
Apr 05 20:04:35 <Magon> ok
Apr 05 20:04:36 <mickeyl> raw dbus is hell
Apr 05 20:04:37 <mickeyl> :)
Apr 05 20:04:41 <Elrond> mickeyl - I'll check the kernel issue this weekend again and file a bug if/when. :-)
Apr 05 20:04:46 <Magon> i just got to know
Apr 05 20:04:49 <mickeyl> Elrond: ok, cool, thanks
Apr 05 20:05:23 <Elrond> mickeyl - Are you allowed to tell us, what the instabilities are, that Sean was talking about? (Or was it already posted somewhere anyway?)
Apr 05 20:06:20 <mickeyl> Elrond: to be honest, i have no idea. I'm totally out of the loop regarding Bv4
Apr 05 20:06:36 <mickeyl> I'm getting more info tomorrow
Apr 05 20:06:47 <mickeyl> coreteam meeting here at my place
Apr 05 20:06:58 <Elrond> FFM? ;)
Apr 05 20:07:01 <mickeyl> yep
Apr 05 20:07:22 <Elrond> Sometime I need to take the train and we should meet somewhere in ffm. ;)
Apr 05 20:07:57 <Magon> mickeyl: how you can have meeting when coreteam is from around the world..or it isnt?
Apr 05 20:08:33 * Elrond heads away for food, 'll be back later.
Apr 05 20:10:05 <mickeyl> Magon: coreteam is Berlin, Buenos Aires, Taipeh, Frankfurt.
Apr 05 20:10:21 <mickeyl> Sean and Harald will come to Frankfurt
Apr 05 20:10:30 <SrRaven> I live close to frankfurt :O
Apr 05 20:10:34 <mickeyl> Werner (Buenos Aires) not this time
Apr 05 20:10:58 <mickeyl> SrRaven: Main or Oder?
Apr 05 20:10:58 <Magon> ok so most of coreteam is from germany...
Apr 05 20:11:11 <SrRaven> main
Apr 05 20:11:23 <mickeyl> well, 50% is germany, yeah
Apr 05 20:11:33 <mickeyl> but what's coreteam and what not is also slightly diffuse
Apr 05 20:11:39 <mickeyl> anyway, three of us meet :)
Apr 05 20:11:40 <Magon> :-)
Apr 05 20:12:09 <Magon> mickeyl: is there yet spec about neod? or dbus api?
Apr 05 20:12:17 <mickeyl> sorry, neither one yet
Apr 05 20:12:22 <mickeyl> only in my head
Apr 05 20:12:45 <loufoque> what's neod?
Apr 05 20:12:50 <Magon> i have decided to help with dbus...reading througt dbus API doc and glib binding doc
Apr 05 20:12:57 <loufoque> the neo demon?
Apr 05 20:13:38 <Magon> loufoque: yes
Apr 05 20:14:09 <MacNorth> i like the sound of an occult phone :^)
Apr 05 21:06:33 <CIA-16> openmoko: 03andrew * r1664 10/trunk/src/host/qemu-neo1973/openmoko/ (Makefile download.sh env flash.sh): 
Apr 05 21:06:33 <CIA-16> openmoko: Take script compatibility-related suggestions from various people on IRC
Apr 05 21:06:33 <CIA-16> openmoko: and wiki into account.
Apr 05 21:06:33 <CIA-16> openmoko: Correct button assignment message.
Apr 05 21:06:33 <CIA-16> openmoko: Add optional parameter to openmoko/flash.sh with search path for images.
Apr 05 21:19:11 <rwhitby> morning
Apr 05 21:28:27 <LarstiQ> moin rwhitby 
Apr 05 21:32:18 <aloril> (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Talk:OpenMoko_under_QEMU]] [[OpenMoko_under_QEMU]]
Apr 05 21:35:30 <CIA-16> openmoko: 03laforge * r1665 10/trunk/src/target/kernel/patches/s3c2410-usb-switch.patch: add (inactive) patch for usb host/device switching
Apr 05 21:38:07 <CIA-16> openmoko: 03rwhitby * r77 10mokomakefile/trunk/patches/openmoko-HEAD/series: Remove qemu patches that have been resolved upstream.
Apr 05 21:40:19 <CIA-16> openmoko: 03andrew * r1666 10/trunk/src/host/qemu-neo1973/hw/nand.c: Fix a NAND erase block size off-by-one error.
Apr 05 21:56:50 <kiney> counter
Apr 05 21:56:51 <aloril> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1: a week, 2 days 19:01:34 (9.793 +-9.8 days) (766,147)
Apr 05 21:57:43 <SpeedEvil> maybe a week.
Apr 05 21:57:57 <SpeedEvil> Maybe three, depending on how things fall out of the latest bug.
Apr 05 21:59:07 <LetoTo> what's the latest bug?
Apr 05 21:59:25 <SpeedEvil> the latest batch of hardware has unspecified bugs.
Apr 05 21:59:36 <SpeedEvil> these may or may not be software workaroundable.
Apr 05 21:59:58 <SpeedEvil> there are at the moment no large quantities of PCBs sitting around of V4 hardware.
Apr 05 22:00:29 <SpeedEvil> All it awaits if it's software workaroundable is for the PCBs to be ordered (few days) and the boards assembled from stocks of parts.
Apr 05 22:01:17 <SpeedEvil> If it's not, then new pcbs need designed, tested, then ...
Apr 05 22:02:39 <kiney> ok...
Apr 05 22:02:41 <koen> SpeedEvil: testing?
Apr 05 22:04:13 <jackey> hey guys
Apr 05 22:04:29 <jackey> Is Neo ready for order?
Apr 05 22:04:46 <SpeedEvil> no.
Apr 05 22:05:09 <SpeedEvil> week or three.
Apr 05 22:05:24 <jackey> delayed ?
Apr 05 22:05:32 <jackey> why?
Apr 05 22:05:46 <jackey> Will it have a wifi module?
Apr 05 22:06:01 <CoreDump|home> hi
Apr 05 22:06:02 <SpeedEvil> bugs, no.
Apr 05 22:06:34 <SpeedEvil> faq?
Apr 05 22:06:34 <aloril> See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ
Apr 05 22:06:51 <SpeedEvil> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ
Apr 05 22:06:53 <SpeedEvil> is useful
Apr 05 22:15:19 <greghunt> have they found a suitable wifi chip yet?
Apr 05 22:20:56 <aevin> greghunt: read the blog post of Welte from March 25 here http://planet.openmoko.org/
Apr 05 22:22:45 <greghunt> "sort of maybe" then :)
Apr 05 22:26:08 <aevin> yup, it looks promising for wifi in "P1.5"
Apr 05 22:29:26 <greghunt> i guess initially it just needs to get on the market, then you cna work on lowing power consumption/more features/designs etc
Apr 05 22:46:20 <balrog-kun> reverse order imho
Apr 05 22:47:43 <rwhitby> balrog-kun: yeah, first impressions are hard to shake
Apr 05 22:47:58 <rwhitby> balrog-kun: can you add "-c" to the wget call in download.sh?
Apr 05 22:48:27 <balrog-kun> rwhitby: oh, i forgot about the -c
Apr 05 22:48:43 <balrog-kun> lemme look it up in the manual first
Apr 05 22:49:43 <balrog-kun> rwhitby: adding it, but it won't change anything in the current form
Apr 05 22:49:53 <balrog-kun> since i'm not checking the filesizes
Apr 05 22:50:48 <balrog-kun> ah no, i'm checking for zero-sized files, only
Apr 05 22:51:52 <rwhitby> balrog-kun: at one point I was getting index.html.1 .2 .3 ... etc - this stopped that.
Apr 05 22:52:38 <balrog-kun> rwhitby: humm, it isn't supposed to download index.html at all
Apr 05 22:53:20 <rwhitby> yeah, that was when the listonly option was broken
Apr 05 22:54:06 <balrog-kun> http://projects.openmoko.org viewcvs is giving me a python exception
Apr 05 22:55:58 <balrog-kun> it seems the -listonly switch is only in latest lynx, FreeBSD and Debian don't have it yet
Apr 05 22:56:04 <balrog-kun> rwhitby: do i add the -c?
Apr 05 22:56:22 <jebba> man this project really needs a different name for the spanish speaking world.  "OpenSnot" is very difficult to talk to people about  (I'm in Argentina)
Apr 05 22:56:23 <Elrond> mickeyl - *making fun* Where should we come tomorrow to catch Sean ? ;o)
Apr 05 22:56:40 <rwhitby> balrog-kun: only if you think it will allow people to resume downloads
Apr 05 22:56:43 <balrog-kun> jebba: heh
Apr 05 22:57:23 <mickeyl> Elrond: guess what, we have a _really_ tight schedule for these two days :/
Apr 05 22:57:31 <balrog-kun> rwhitby: for that i would need to parse the filesizes in the script
Apr 05 22:57:31 <jebba> I hang out with a guy who has a cell tower gear/router repair business and don't even want to mention it due to the name....
Apr 05 22:57:52 <balrog-kun> rwhitby: it can be done, but i think it's not worth and the scripts are more of a temporary solution
Apr 05 22:58:05 <rwhitby> sure
Apr 05 22:58:22 <rwhitby> don't worry about it then
Apr 05 22:58:34 <balrog-kun> jebba: i think you can say "mucus" in english too
Apr 05 22:58:41 <Elrond> mickeyl - I guessed that.
Apr 05 22:58:43 <balrog-kun> jebba: i don't know why nobody has thought about it
Apr 05 22:59:24 <jebba> well, i say the name in a spanish speaking conversation (we're both speaking spanish--he doesn't speak english).  So if I /say/ "OpenMoko" he /hears/ "OpenSnot"
Apr 05 22:59:55 <jebba> or OpenMucus if you prefer...
Apr 05 23:00:23 <balrog-kun> yeah, there is a couple of marketting issues when you're approaching international markets :)
Apr 05 23:00:52 <balrog-kun> i think Mitsubishi once renamed the Pajero model for spanish market
Apr 05 23:01:40 <thomasg_> yes, they did
Apr 05 23:02:07 <jebba> i feel kind of trollish bringing it up, but for me it's real.  I just don't even want to talk about it here! Or at least mention the name...
Apr 05 23:02:16 <thomasg_> maybe it didnt sound good when little marco tells his friend: my father has a big pajero :)
Apr 05 23:02:27 <jebba> heh
Apr 05 23:02:45 <balrog-kun> jebba: use names Neo1973 & Linux exclusively ;)
Apr 05 23:03:09 <SpeedEvil> Or use the spanish name.
Apr 05 23:03:12 <SpeedEvil> OpenSnot.
Apr 05 23:03:27 <jebba> ya, i do say free software (software libre) and such.  The issue kind of came to me when I thought "Oh, I should write down the URL..." then i balked.
Apr 05 23:03:31 <loufoque> why do the spanish have a specific name?
Apr 05 23:03:33 <jebba> SpeedEvil, heh.
Apr 05 23:03:52 <jebba> loufoque, they don't have a specific name but Moko means snot/mucus in spanish.
Apr 05 23:04:02 <SrRaven> better than what pajero means
Apr 05 23:04:04 <balrog-kun> loufoque: it's just a literal translation, it's not a separate spanish name
Apr 05 23:04:46 <loufoque> when you say snot, you mean that yellowish thing that goes out of your nose when you've caught a cold?
Apr 05 23:04:48 <balrog-kun> it's strange cause one of the core developers is from BsAs
Apr 05 23:05:54 <balrog-kun> loufoque: that's what moco means
Apr 05 23:06:37 <jebba> balrog-kun, ya, but he's not a native speaker (i don't think--he's german/austrian right?)  so it may not have "hit" him when he heard it.
Apr 05 23:07:13 <loufoque> what is moko supposed to mean in english?
Apr 05 23:07:22 <loufoque> mobile communicator or something?
Apr 05 23:07:35 <balrog-kun> jebba: i wouldn't know, maybe it's just his name
Apr 05 23:10:53 <thomasg_> hm, using the neo as a pc input device (over bluetooth) would be cool :)
Apr 05 23:13:49 <SrRaven> wow since when does eplus offer online :O
Apr 05 23:14:47 <rwhitby> thomasg_: I currently use a Treo650 as an input device over bluetooth for the Neo ...
Apr 05 23:16:07 <thomasg_> rwhitby, how do you do that? vnc? ore as bluetooth mouse?
Apr 05 23:16:20 <rwhitby> ssh :-)
Apr 05 23:16:25 <thomasg_> hm, ok
Apr 05 23:16:34 <rwhitby> yeah, not really an input device as such :-)
Apr 05 23:16:50 <thomasg_> what I meant was using the neo as graphics tablett (like the wacoms)
Apr 05 23:18:39 <balrog-kun> iirc you can use a Zaurus for this with the default firmware and over usb
Apr 05 23:20:58 <thomasg_> balrog-kun, yes, but I dont have a zaurus (and I wont have), but I will have a neo :)
Apr 05 23:22:07 <balrog-kun> thomasg_: i'm just saying that it should be possible :)
Apr 05 23:23:09 <thomasg_> yes :)
Apr 05 23:28:18 <aloril> (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Neo1973_Hardware]]
Apr 05 23:49:46 <CIA-16> openmoko: 03andrew * r1667 10/trunk/src/host/qemu-neo1973/ (Makefile.target hw/modem.c hw/neo1973.c vl.h): 
Apr 05 23:49:46 <CIA-16> openmoko: Add a dummy modem attached to UART0 (most functions unimplemented).
Apr 05 23:49:46 <CIA-16> openmoko: Clean-up the Neo board file.
Apr 05 23:51:03 <CIA-16> openmoko: 03mickey * r1668 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/applications/openmoko-calculator/data/openmoko-calculator.desktop: openmoko-calculator: fix icon path in .desktop file (don't add file extensions)
Apr 05 23:51:41 <high-rez> counter
Apr 05 23:51:41 <aloril> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1: a week, 2 days 18:04:09 (9.753 +-9.8 days) (767,147)
Apr 05 23:57:38 <balrog-kun> rwhitby: please commit to the qemu tree when you have any changes
Apr 05 23:57:44 * balrog-kun will be offline for a week
Apr 05 23:58:41 <rwhitby> balrog-kun: ok, thx.
Apr 05 23:58:55 <rwhitby> I'll try not to break too much.
Apr 06 00:05:33 <CIA-16> openmoko: 03mickey * r1669 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/applications/openmoko-rssreader/data/ (RSS.png openmoko-rssreader.desktop openmoko-rssreader.png): openmoko-rssreader: change icon name to work around bug in libmatchbox (chokes on icon names less than 5 characters...)
Apr 06 00:06:07 <CIA-16> openmoko: 03mickey * r1670 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/applications/openmoko-mainmenu/data/openmoko-mainmenu.desktop: openmoko-mainmenu: typo in Name
Apr 06 00:10:14 <CIA-16> openmoko: 03mickey * r1671 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/examples/ (3 files in 3 dirs): examples: fix icon names in .desktop files
Apr 06 00:15:54 <CIA-16> openmoko: 03mickey * r1672 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/applications/openmoko-contacts/data/ (4 files): openmoko-contacts: change icon file and name
Apr 06 00:19:07 <TimeWolf> so.. are those neo1973s out yet?
Apr 06 00:19:07 <aloril> TimeWolf: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.)
Apr 06 00:19:40 <CoreDump|home> tigert: nope
Apr 06 00:36:18 <aloril> (script) openmoko-devel: "Michael 'Mickey' Lauer" <mickey at openmoko.org> Re: qemu-neo1973
Apr 06 00:45:11 <MacNorth> heh http://www.consumerist.com/consumer/iphone/rumor-iphone-battery-lasts-for-only-40-minutes-of-talk-time-249929.php
Apr 06 00:45:33 <MacNorth> good ol' Dvorak
Apr 06 00:47:23 <MacNorth> he's like the sun at night
Apr 06 00:47:30 <MacNorth> or the fool when it's not april 1st
Apr 06 01:20:46 <loufoque> when the battery is empty, your phone actually gets lighter.
Apr 06 01:25:33 <balrog-kun> and if you keep draining it more, you get to a point where it has negative mass?
Apr 06 01:25:50 <SpeedEvil> Not really, no.
Apr 06 01:26:12 <balrog-kun> but at least lighter than air, right?
Apr 06 01:26:27 <SpeedEvil> However, a 4Wh battery has 15KJ or so.
Apr 06 01:26:50 * balrog-kun is off :)
Apr 06 01:27:11 <SpeedEvil> 1Kg is equal to 10^17J or so.
Apr 06 01:27:38 <SpeedEvil> So 15KJ is around 10^-13Kg or so change in weight.
Apr 06 01:29:12 <SpeedEvil> Or .000000000005 change.
Apr 06 01:37:13 <alphaone> koen: Ping
Apr 06 01:46:55 <MacNorth> heh, SpeedEvil: see the link a few lines above. we're taking the piss out of the iphone :)
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Fri Apr 06 03:00:00 2007