**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Apr 12 02:59:57 2007 Apr 12 04:08:46 I just ran across a paper titled "Accurate GSM Indoor Localization" and was wondering if the Neo1973's GSM driver exports the data required for this method. Apr 12 04:10:23 The paper talks about a "cellsAPI" and "channelsAPI" but I'm not clear on weather or not these APIs are part of the GSM standard or if they are specific to the GSM modem used in the paper. Apr 12 04:12:45 Hmmm... awful quiet in here. Apr 12 04:25:26 its standard AT interface, dunno if you can get required data (I think at least some mailing list post listed almost all supported AT commands and maybe listed in wiki too) Apr 12 04:25:36 (above for kinema) Apr 12 04:26:06 aloril: thanks.... I should have looked before asking. Apr 12 04:33:01 * CM is awake but sleepy.. Apr 12 05:55:30 http://www.pastebin.ca/435877 Apr 12 05:57:05 root__: what host OS? Apr 12 05:57:54 fedora-6/kernel2.6.18 Apr 12 05:58:42 root__: the kernel that ships with fc6 (2.6.18) is broken Apr 12 05:58:44 please get a new one Apr 12 05:59:52 root__: fc6 ships glibc 2.5 Apr 12 05:59:59 but I don't get that error... Apr 12 06:00:00 kernel 2.6.20 is ok Apr 12 06:01:36 kmeyer: then what i need to do Apr 12 06:01:50 I don't know :P Apr 12 06:03:04 rwhitby: can you help me to solve my problem Apr 12 06:03:21 root__: nope, no idea about that one. Apr 12 06:04:42 linker errors are the worst Apr 12 06:07:02 which flavour of linux do u suggest for building this Apr 12 06:07:16 debian etch is a leading favorite :) Apr 12 06:07:45 I'm using fc6 Apr 12 06:07:52 but bits fail Apr 12 06:07:54 for me Apr 12 06:08:13 kmeyer:which one are u using now Apr 12 06:08:27 fc6 Apr 12 06:08:57 kmeyer:kernel,were u able to build it successfully Apr 12 06:09:09 latest kernel I think Apr 12 06:09:34 2.6.20-1.2925.fc6 Apr 12 06:10:04 rwhitby:which flavour of linux do u suggest to build moko makefile Apr 12 06:10:06 I use Debian Etch and CentOS 4.4 Apr 12 06:10:30 and I complain loudly upstream if it breaks on either of those :-) Apr 12 06:17:03 kmeyer:were u able to build moko makefile Apr 12 06:17:38 nope Apr 12 06:18:12 kmeyer:have u tried building from scratch method Apr 12 06:18:22 no Apr 12 06:18:28 I'm trying again tho now Apr 12 06:18:46 kmeyer:which way Apr 12 06:19:17 mokomakefile Apr 12 06:19:52 rwhitby:how can i build the openmoko for my pc Apr 12 06:21:33 root__: It's described step by step in the wiki :) Apr 12 06:22:00 CM:i have tried moko makefile and iam getting errors Apr 12 06:22:29 Me too, I've only managed to build the fic-gta01 images with the makefile Apr 12 06:22:43 But that's because I'm on gentoo 64-bit, so it's my own fault ;) Apr 12 06:23:07 * CM will take a look at a debian chroot Apr 12 06:23:25 :-) Apr 12 06:23:44 CM:so which one are u planning to shift to next Apr 12 06:24:33 root__: What do you mean? I'll still use the makefile, with x86 target machine Apr 12 06:24:44 But I'll hope it works this time ;) Apr 12 06:25:11 CM:which flavour of linux will u use Apr 12 06:25:49 root__: Gentoo, but debian etch in a change root or in vmware if I'm lazy Apr 12 06:26:02 To have as a build environment Apr 12 06:26:20 * rwhitby starts a MACHINE="x86" build on CentOS 4.4 using mokomakefile Apr 12 06:26:46 My tries with that always failed on libelf Apr 12 06:27:08 the libelf thing was a 64-bit thing wasn't it? Apr 12 06:27:14 Yes Apr 12 06:27:33 So it's my own fault.. ;) Apr 12 06:27:42 64-bit Gentoo is almost as bad (build-stability-wise) as building on OpenBSD ... Apr 12 06:28:23 I can imagine.. But I'll gladly help out if I can do anything Apr 12 06:29:43 But not right now... Travel fever here.. ;) Apr 12 06:30:33 http://nopaste.info/0453094128.html Apr 12 07:15:28 good morning Apr 12 07:26:34 morning Apr 12 07:56:56 morn Apr 12 08:01:11 morning Apr 12 08:01:54 morning Apr 12 08:01:59 * CM gets another cup of coffee Apr 12 08:02:09 Me too. Apr 12 08:23:10 counter Apr 12 08:23:10 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1 guess: 2 weeks, 5 days 03:36:48 (19.151 +-14.0 days) (832,157) Apr 12 08:24:04 * koen compares http://code.google.com/soc/llvm/about.html to http://code.google.com/soc/openmoko/about.html Apr 12 08:26:58 koen - The openmoko one looks a little empty to me? Apr 12 08:27:12 Elrond: yes Apr 12 08:27:32 ... and I have yet to understand, what llvm has to do with openmoko. Apr 12 08:29:40 Other thing: Is anything new known about the instability issue? Except the Bug#321-possibility? Apr 12 08:31:28 Elrond: llvm is going to subvert your phones Apr 12 08:33:58 XorA - huh? Apr 12 08:34:13 * CM reads more on http://llvm.org/ Apr 12 08:36:08 llvm rocks Apr 12 08:36:40 I hope plan9 gets ported to the neo Apr 12 08:37:08 AROS on Neo :-) Apr 12 08:37:20 that'll make mickey|zzZZzz feel at home Apr 12 08:37:22 koen: What guy wanted to do that? Apr 12 08:37:34 I know someone here talked about that :) Apr 12 08:37:43 CM: someone applied for a google SoC to do that Apr 12 08:38:29 * koen wonders if X runs on plan9 Apr 12 08:39:37 * koen waits for plan9 people to point out that is much more awesome than X Apr 12 08:39:54 the only plan 9 I know is from outer space Apr 12 08:40:15 time for Cedega for Neo :-D Apr 12 08:40:58 vm/esx for neo. ;) Apr 12 08:43:16 *lol* yeah. ibm mainframe OSs have great touchscreen support and stuff. this will rock the mobile phone market. ;) Apr 12 08:44:28 * CM has a 3270 VM console open right now.. Apr 12 08:46:29 too bad those old monsters are written in asm and (sometimes, if your lucky) ancient not-so-high-level languages. ;) Apr 12 08:47:09 * prom would definitely like a Genera-style phone though. *g* Apr 12 08:49:11 <-- heading to work. ;) Apr 12 08:50:39 I wonder if http://article.gmane.org/gmane.comp.handhelds.maemo.devel/9304 is going to apply to v1 neo's in ~1.5 years Apr 12 08:51:20 koen: luckilly with Neo you have the source Apr 12 08:52:00 prom: Mostly APL here, and some Rexx Apr 12 08:52:03 XorA: yes, but a lot of those sources are forks of other projects, so you're still in maintenance hell Apr 12 08:52:15 openmoko: 03dodji * r1729 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/openmoko-libs/ (5 files in 3 dirs): (log message trimmed) Apr 12 08:52:15 openmoko: Made entries deletion work, fixed leaks, added comments to test cases. Apr 12 08:52:15 openmoko: * openmoko-libs/libmokojournal/src/moko-journal.c: Apr 12 08:52:15 openmoko: (moko_j_entry_free_real): fix a leak in here. Apr 12 08:52:15 openmoko: (moko_journal_remove_entry_at): make this really remove Apr 12 08:52:18 openmoko: the entries from MokoJournal::entries. Apr 12 08:52:20 openmoko: (moko_journal_write_to_storage): fix a leak. Apr 12 08:52:37 koen: thats why we have Angstrom - Neo :-) Apr 12 08:53:45 :D Apr 12 08:53:46 koen: well, till now most linux-PDAs and PDAs in general have faded rather quickly. but moko has some chance of breaking this rule, i think. if there will be more devices after the neo. Apr 12 08:54:04 prom: the Zaurus lasted many years Apr 12 08:54:47 XorA: yes, to some degree. so did the ipaq. but did it really become usable? as in give-it-to-your-mom-usable? Apr 12 08:55:02 ubuntu sure is. but none of the open pda projects seemed to be. Apr 12 08:55:26 prom: give us 30 paid developers Apr 12 08:55:39 prom: and OE will churn out Mom + Pop releases Apr 12 08:55:49 30 paid developers that know 'patch' and 'mail' instead of 'svn import' Apr 12 08:56:02 XorA: and dont forget at least one really good UI designer. the curren moko UI seems to have been designed by graphics people in photoshop. Apr 12 08:56:15 koen: hehe ;) Apr 12 08:56:21 at least not by professional programmers Apr 12 08:56:33 * XorA volunteers to be paid to work on Angstrom Apr 12 08:57:13 thresh: yes, even programmers are better at UIs than graphics people. ;) Apr 12 08:57:39 :) Apr 12 08:57:51 but i think there is some chance for these things to improve if FIC doesnt pull out or anything. Apr 12 08:57:51 and no UI people from Samsung or Motorola Apr 12 08:58:17 for me, palm os's interface is the best :) Apr 12 08:58:31 * dottedmag +1 Apr 12 09:01:46 have palm managed to do multitasking yet? Apr 12 09:01:50 XorA: indeed. i prefer nokia and sonyE. ive been doing j2me for a while so ive used and hated them all... ;) Apr 12 09:01:53 ewon: no Apr 12 09:01:57 ewon: it does not matter Apr 12 09:02:01 sure it does Apr 12 09:02:14 it does, actually Apr 12 09:02:20 what if I want to run an app in the background? Apr 12 09:02:26 indeed. think about application switching. Apr 12 09:02:38 let it run. Apr 12 09:02:43 ewon: palmos does not support running in background. Apr 12 09:02:44 what's the problem? Apr 12 09:02:54 well, actually it does Apr 12 09:02:54 don't use palmos if you want to run an app in the background Apr 12 09:03:00 this is not related to interface Apr 12 09:03:00 but it's a hack-hack-hack Apr 12 09:03:32 It's all about the interface principles, not about the actual OS. Apr 12 09:03:43 is there some form of background-execution support in j2me? I never came across it Apr 12 09:03:44 ewon: i got a treo 680 (last palm phone) and sold it due to lack of multitasking Apr 12 09:04:04 * prom kicks another moko build. is it still appropriate to pin the openembedded mtn revision? Apr 12 09:04:26 nibbler: morning. :) Apr 12 09:04:50 imagine... starting a ssh client and having no possibility to switch to your calendar for some seconds without restart/reconnect... Apr 12 09:04:55 morning prom :) Apr 12 09:05:03 prom: if you use moko svn as overlay, pin the revision Apr 12 09:05:17 prom: if you don't pin the revision, you don't even need the svn Apr 12 09:06:21 ewon: google for MVM and j2me Apr 12 09:06:24 koen: kay. ill continue with my svn-based setup then. Apr 12 09:06:35 ewon: Nokia demoed this last year at JavaOne Apr 12 09:06:42 ewon: (as did Motorola) Apr 12 09:07:26 * XorA cant wait until he can use Neo as a phone, his HTC Wizard is wearing out Apr 12 09:07:46 ewon: http://developers.sun.com/learning/javaoneonline/2006/mobility/TS-4447.pdf page 19 Apr 12 09:10:32 thanks Apr 12 09:10:56 I'm all for anything that makes j2me less retarded :) Apr 12 09:11:12 the thought of a phone I can cross compile C for appeals to me though :D Apr 12 09:13:21 of course - the idea of j2me is for distribution to end-users who don't have that facility ;) Apr 12 09:19:24 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Migration_to_bad_block_tolerant_builds]] Apr 12 09:19:25 how completely awesome is this: http://6502asm.com/ Apr 12 09:20:15 good morning Apr 12 09:20:25 ewon: you're a sick, sick man :D Apr 12 09:20:26 openmoko: 03dodji * r1730 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/openmoko-libs/ (4 files in 3 dirs): Apr 12 09:20:26 openmoko: Changed some function names for better legibility Apr 12 09:20:26 openmoko: * openmoko-libs/libmokojournal/src/moko-journal.[c|h]: Apr 12 09:20:26 openmoko: change moko_j_entry* into moko_journal_entry*, Apr 12 09:20:26 openmoko: MokoJEntry, into MokoJournalEntry, etc. Apr 12 09:20:26 openmoko: That is for better legibility. Apr 12 09:20:28 hey florian Apr 12 09:29:32 In case anyone is thinking about moving to or within the US, this map is worth taking a look at for anyone that's single: http://creativeclass.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/2007/04/03/singles_2.jpg Apr 12 09:32:25 CM: lol... or somewhere to avoid for us married folks Apr 12 09:33:52 CM: *hrhrhr* Apr 12 09:34:47 CM: I'm moving to CA in august.. Apr 12 09:35:29 Santa Monica... looks like I'm going to have some challenges in finding a woman.... Apr 12 09:41:13 ewon: but there are lots of women! Apr 12 09:41:46 kelvinn: Guess they're not single then ;) Apr 12 09:42:37 heh, hate it when that happens Apr 12 09:47:11 isnt Santa Monica where the girl on girl action happens? Apr 12 09:47:53 might be Santa Barbara... Apr 12 09:48:53 heh :) Apr 12 09:49:02 Wouldn't the Moko's a 64k colour screen be /wasted/ on Plan9 ? (..my experience with it was back on B&W Blit terminals :) Apr 12 09:49:06 coming from Ireland it can only be an improvement Apr 12 09:49:13 irish_women--; Apr 12 09:49:22 I'm a bit suspicious about Miami though.. I suspect the single women there to be 75 yerars plus.. ;) Apr 12 09:49:37 but isn't 20% of the US genepool from ireland? Apr 12 09:49:52 yeah, but it's been mixed in with some finer stock since then... Apr 12 09:50:06 ewon: Hehe.. Apr 12 09:50:09 CM: That could be true... Apr 12 09:50:24 ewon: it has?!? Apr 12 09:50:25 ewon: at least you have Guinness... Apr 12 09:50:48 heh, one of the devs here replaced all out static C arrays with std::vectors, and merged it into HEAD without telling anyone Apr 12 09:51:01 * ewon awaits the weeping and gnashing of teeth Apr 12 09:51:01 *BOOM* Apr 12 09:51:04 Lots of pretty girls here in Sweden, but my gf has philippino parents.. Apr 12 09:51:25 CM: lucky guy :) Apr 12 09:53:51 :) Apr 12 09:56:22 Honestly I'd rank Norway higher though.. Damn.. :D Apr 12 09:57:45 I was with a swedish girl once - damn hot, but a bit of a psycho Apr 12 10:01:05 psyc-hot-ic Apr 12 10:01:08 I had a /really hot/ French female housemate, who I got on famously with, but... she'd studied in the States as an Undergrad, so she had a _really_thick_ American English accent. :( Apr 12 10:01:22 cbaird: what a massive turnoff Apr 12 10:02:08 My sister was over a year in Attlanna.. (Atlanta GA) Picked up a terible accent :P Apr 12 10:02:26 (she was the -very-image- of the 'sexy french maid' archetype.. but sadly there was zero hint of a continental accent when she spoke..) Apr 12 10:03:26 I lived with this obscenely hot american for a semester... alas she was a lesbian Apr 12 10:03:44 cbaird: You should have given her a maids dress and asked her to please be quiet. ;) Apr 12 10:04:12 ewon: isn't that a good basis for a nice threesome o:-) Apr 12 10:04:24 ewon: look what you started with your CA talk! Apr 12 10:04:39 * CM feels guilty too Apr 12 10:05:15 anyhow, gotta go meet the lady for dinner, g'nite all Apr 12 10:05:55 nibbler_de: Hmm.. I was just reading this not at all pc comic.. http://www.explosm.net/comics/862/http://www.explosm.net/comics/862/ Apr 12 10:06:06 Äh, sorry.. http://www.explosm.net/comics/862/ Apr 12 10:06:36 ewon: I lived with an obscenely fat american girl for a semester... :| Apr 12 10:07:16 * CM is off for lunch Apr 12 10:07:38 CM ;) Apr 12 10:25:52 nibbler_de: alas, no, she was lesbian, not bisexual :( Apr 12 10:26:12 we should probably try and somehow make this relevant to openmoko before we all get K-lined Apr 12 10:26:16 * ewon thinks Apr 12 10:26:38 ...some form of social networking app involving the bluetooth transceiver? Apr 12 10:26:39 * paulproteus chuckles Apr 12 10:26:57 Don't try too hard, or else you'll *definitely* get K-lined. (-: Apr 12 10:30:49 ewon: meh, just add support for that BT-controlled dildo Apr 12 10:31:02 * Stephmw waits for the applause Apr 12 10:31:47 * XorA applauds Apr 12 10:37:30 I think bluetooth is not used enough in games for mobile phones Apr 12 10:38:33 agreed: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/03/12/sxsw_teledildonics/ Apr 12 10:39:30 CM: a bluetooth version of digimon would be cool Apr 12 10:39:34 * ewon decides to not click on that in work Apr 12 10:39:54 ewon: its safe for work Apr 12 10:39:55 ewon: no dodgy pictures... but what it links to may well be unsafe Apr 12 10:40:02 XorA: Yes, or some Advance Wars or so Apr 12 10:40:11 a bluetooth version of "here, let's go have a ride in the toilets" could be useful Apr 12 10:40:29 errr, that's called toothing, right? Apr 12 10:40:43 I started on some simple boggle game in j2me but never finished it.. At least had bluetooth pairing working and some basic networking Apr 12 10:40:51 Stephmw: although the conference guy does appear to be waving a steel vagina Apr 12 10:40:57 XorA: LOL Apr 12 10:40:57 2 person boggle over bluetooth that is Apr 12 10:41:05 XorA: that can't be comfortable Apr 12 10:44:23 XorA: I've visited 4chan too often and know exactly what he's holding. -_- Apr 12 10:44:30 hi Apr 12 10:45:36 cbaird: please explain, it looks scarilly like a cross between vagina in a cup and a 3000Kw hair drrier Apr 12 10:45:57 I mean 3Kw of course Apr 12 10:46:06 3000Kw would burn skin off head in seconds Apr 12 10:46:22 counter Apr 12 10:46:23 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1 guess: 2 weeks, 5 days 01:13:36 (19.051 +-14.0 days) (833,157) Apr 12 10:46:33 hum 2 weeks? Apr 12 10:46:46 for a few days the counter said 6 days :P Apr 12 10:46:46 PBeck: counter long ago became random :-) Apr 12 10:46:54 rofl ;) Apr 12 10:47:09 a random counter :p Apr 12 10:47:12 PBeck: aloril just adds a few weeks everytime deadline passes Apr 12 10:47:25 hm whan was the deadline? Apr 12 10:47:29 *when Apr 12 10:47:42 where can i read that ;) Apr 12 10:47:49 *this Apr 12 10:47:54 official info is quite vague currently Apr 12 10:47:55 argh my english ;) Apr 12 10:48:02 or more like its missing ;-) Apr 12 10:48:09 rofl ;) Ok :) Apr 12 10:48:23 * XorA hunts for more lego Apr 12 10:48:29 Right. Even info on the instabilities is mostly missing. Apr 12 10:48:29 see that link for 2 more info Apr 12 10:48:44 * CM loves lego Apr 12 10:49:03 Stephmw: Now don't take that litteraly! :P Apr 12 10:49:45 CM: that would _surely_ be a painful fetish :D Apr 12 10:49:49 So we need the neo-lego-compatibility add-on? ;) Apr 12 10:49:59 CM: I have 3 trainsets and am trying to build a world to go round them Apr 12 10:50:33 XorA: Ah, cool :) I mostly have technics.. Apr 12 10:51:02 CM: I have technic trike, pickup, go-cart and maybe some others I forget Apr 12 10:51:55 * hrw has normal lego several years ago Apr 12 10:51:59 I got a pneumatic forklift when I was 6, and since that i only got technic stuff. Have some huge car and other stuff Apr 12 10:52:04 and then lot of Polish clones Apr 12 10:52:12 * CM looks back att the good old times.. Apr 12 10:52:26 CM: my dad gave away my huge car chasis, Im still annoyed Apr 12 10:52:44 Hmm.. I should get a NXT lego thing and make the Neo bluetooth work as a controller for it Apr 12 10:53:05 XorA: Was it the red one with foldable lights and a v4 with gears? :D Apr 12 10:55:43 in my education we have at school many NXT lego sets Apr 12 10:56:06 so we can train with mechatronic systems ;) Apr 12 10:56:18 and Lego use LabView Apr 12 10:57:21 I have to avoid getting too many toys. A Neo first, then... ;) Apr 12 10:57:43 CM: http://www.chem.sunysb.edu/msl/lego/8860.jpg Apr 12 10:58:42 XorA: Ah, that's old school for sure. I had the later version that was red Apr 12 10:59:01 CM: yes the neo is the best ;) Apr 12 10:59:48 i hope the will available soon ;) Apr 12 10:59:52 +neo Apr 12 11:00:34 CM: a friend gave me it with no instructions or box, I had to build it just from the picture in the lego catalogue, so I had a bit of pride in it, so Im annoyed its gone Apr 12 11:01:00 Wow, I can imagine Apr 12 11:02:19 XorA: I was thinking of this one: http://www.brickset.com/detail.aspx?Set=8865-1 Apr 12 11:02:51 And this one... http://www.brickset.com/detail.aspx?Set=8843-1 :) Apr 12 11:03:14 * CM snaps back from 1985 to Neo1973 ;) Apr 12 11:03:52 CM: thats pretty cool Apr 12 11:04:32 Ill have to go to more car boots to collect enough bits for that :-) Apr 12 11:04:36 I almost wore out that suspension, added motors and all kinds of stuff :) Apr 12 11:04:55 * CM still has every part Apr 12 11:04:58 CM: I have the remote control one Apr 12 11:05:03 Not sure about the instructions for it.. Apr 12 11:05:15 CM: instructions will be on peeron anyway Apr 12 11:05:32 With cable? I had the old enginges, several. Burned some out using my dads car battery charger, but damn it was fast for a while Apr 12 11:05:56 CM: no the radio controlled oe from a few years ago, ASDA were selling it for 20 quid Apr 12 11:06:09 Ah, cool Apr 12 11:06:31 I once built the http://www.brickset.com/detail.aspx?Set=8880-1 for a lazy neighbour :) Apr 12 11:07:09 http://guide.lugnet.com/set/8366 Apr 12 11:07:35 Hehe.. It's the same type of car, just later revision :) Apr 12 11:08:00 RC one is wicked, except it falls to bits far to easy :-) Apr 12 11:08:31 Hehe.. Cool.. Glue it maybe? ;) Apr 12 11:08:42 mickey|zzZZzz moin mentor :) Apr 12 11:09:13 time for a lego theme for Neo :-) Apr 12 11:09:29 XorA: Hehe.. Definitely! Apr 12 11:09:50 * CM warns everyone against playing Lego Racers Apr 12 11:10:07 A freind just gave me most of the bits for 7735 so I am trying a resoration Apr 12 11:10:12 The only game that has ever made me sea sick.. Felt like vomiting after 5 minutes Apr 12 11:10:23 CM: I tried lego alpha team and I could get off first screen Apr 12 11:10:34 CM: I loved lego island, but it wont run on modern PC's Apr 12 11:11:05 it has no protected against PC's that can render lego at 1000fps so its a touch too fast Apr 12 11:11:26 Hehe.. Dosbox or something? Apr 12 11:11:59 hmmm 8865 is on ebay UK Apr 12 11:13:13 Hehe.. It's a great car.. Nice suspension.. Apr 12 11:13:27 * CM acts as a car salesman Apr 12 11:13:47 Smoothly shifting gears.. ;) Apr 12 11:13:54 heh heh Apr 12 11:14:24 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Migration_to_bad_block_tolerant_builds]] [[UI_Improvements]] Apr 12 11:15:35 I wont to build the RC unit into that Tractor unit they now sell, that looks awesome Apr 12 11:38:58 hm. is there a way to regenerate the Package files after building an additional package? Apr 12 11:39:20 'bitbake package-index' or run ipkg-make-index by hand Apr 12 11:39:27 thanks. Apr 12 11:43:47 counter Apr 12 11:43:47 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1 guess: 2 weeks, 5 days 00:16:11 (19.011 +-14.0 days) (834,157) Apr 12 11:46:11 openmoko: 03dodji * r1731 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/openmoko-libs/ (6 files in 3 dirs): Apr 12 11:46:11 openmoko: Support entry removal by UID Apr 12 11:46:11 openmoko: * openmoko-libs/libmokojournal/src/moko-journal.c,h: Apr 12 11:46:11 openmoko: (moko_journal_remove_entry_by_uid): added this new entry point. Apr 12 11:46:11 openmoko: (moko_journal_entry_get_uid): ditto Apr 12 11:46:12 openmoko: * openmoko-libs/libmokojournal/tests/test-delete-uid.c: added Apr 12 11:46:16 openmoko: this to test/debug removal by uid. Apr 12 12:40:58 *sigh* these GSM pulses getting injected into my audio cable are driving me mad. Apr 12 12:43:04 I have a couple questions on the GSM and specifically the GPRS - first of all, does GPRS work at the moment? What happens to the GPRS if a phonecall or SMS comes in? Apr 12 12:44:32 gprs works (according to wiki) Apr 12 12:45:32 what I'd like to achieve is GPRS active at all times so the phone itself can access internet - and also allow other computers access the internet through the phone - I'm thinking GPRS always on + NAT + bluetooth PAN - but are there other options? Apr 12 12:45:36 is someone already doing this? Apr 12 12:45:52 on my nokia phone if it is in GPRS, the data goes on hold while calling Apr 12 12:45:59 if I am on 3G, both work at the same time Apr 12 12:46:14 dunno if this is implementation limitation or a hardware-limitation Apr 12 12:46:20 right, this is hardware dependent Apr 12 12:46:23 tigert: yeah, smae for me Apr 12 12:46:39 ie, not sure how Neo does but I would guess its the same Apr 12 12:46:42 newer phones shouldn't need to pause gprs Apr 12 12:46:57 ok Apr 12 12:47:18 Stephmw: any idea what the openmoko does? Apr 12 12:47:41 Hadaka: don't have one, so all I can say is... " < hrw> gprs works (according to wiki)" Apr 12 12:47:59 I'm holding off for P1.5 I think Apr 12 12:48:02 nods Apr 12 12:48:34 with this baby, I'll stick to app-layer development ;) Apr 12 12:48:47 heh Apr 12 12:48:58 well, I'm buying a P1 the moment they become available Apr 12 12:49:17 * Stephmw counts the days... 4 months until he's allowed to hack properly Apr 12 12:51:55 hmmh, looks like the GPRS access on the phone is quite standard - PPP over the serial line, AT commands to open GPRS - I wonder what happens to phone calls when they arrive during the GPRS "call" Apr 12 12:53:25 Hadaka: PPP stops, you get RING, you can use ATO to re-enable ppp (I beleive) Apr 12 12:53:41 I'm going to be buying a new phone when I move to the US in August anyway... Apr 12 12:53:49 * ewon ponders an openmoko Apr 12 12:53:54 Hadaka: I am hoping libgsm takes care of all that and just gives us a pty to do ppp on Apr 12 12:54:25 XorA: yeah, that'd be nice Apr 12 12:55:42 I don't care if the GPRS gets suspended when anything happens on the GSM side - but I don't want it to restart PPP too often Apr 12 12:55:51 if the release of p1 is shifted once again i think i wait the few days to get a p1,5 :) Apr 12 12:56:14 for example, getting a different IP address after every incoming call Apr 12 12:58:06 Hadaka: ah, you dont get a real IP for GPRS Apr 12 12:58:24 XorA: it depends on operator Apr 12 12:58:50 XorA: well, I might, but in general I don't like it if PPP has to be renegotiated Apr 12 12:59:01 hrw: there is one that assigns real IPs? Apr 12 12:59:13 2 parts depend on operator... NAT address lease timeout, and NAT external connectivity Apr 12 12:59:26 Hadaka: there is nothing really to negotiate Apr 12 12:59:28 some operators allow phone<->phone IP Apr 12 12:59:29 XorA: who knows... Apr 12 12:59:44 I know of one operator atleast which gives you public IP addresses without NAT Apr 12 12:59:55 Hadaka: bloody hell thats insane Apr 12 13:00:00 the only one I know of was Orange France Apr 12 13:00:11 XorA: there's always stuff to negotiate in PPP :) Apr 12 13:00:17 ... 2 years ago, dunno if that's still the case Apr 12 13:00:19 Hadaka: not via GPRS Apr 12 13:00:35 XorA: it's still the same ppp daemon? Apr 12 13:00:35 * XorA wonders why any of their WinCE phones still work Apr 12 13:01:11 Hadaka: yes, but seeing as the defaults work, there isnt much negotiation, GPRS says I am doing X pppd goes OK Apr 12 13:01:25 XorA: the public addresses were only available if you specifically asked for a "vpn" connection gprs Apr 12 13:01:45 is compression available over GPRS? Apr 12 13:02:10 Hadaka: ah. so thats how they do ipsec on, for example, the nokias. never cared to ask at my provider. Apr 12 13:02:16 I cant remeber from my logs Apr 12 13:02:28 XorA: well, renegotiation atleast means bringin the interface down and up and assigning routes etc. - which I don't want the phone doing all the time Apr 12 13:03:00 Hadaka: the link I dont think goes down, you have 2 minuts to answer RING and issue an ATO Apr 12 13:04:06 XorA: well, that was my point - as long as the ppp doesn't need to get reconnected, I'm happy Apr 12 13:09:24 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[UI_Improvements]] [[Buying_Interest_List]] [[Summer_of_code]] [[Wishlist:Games]] Apr 12 13:10:00 http://code.google.com/soc/openmoko/about.html Apr 12 13:10:06 zecke: congrats Apr 12 13:10:51 * koen hopes http://code.google.com/soc/openmoko/appinfo.html?csaid=4B963C4F3F275D36 will use gstreamer Apr 12 13:11:22 yay, webkit is coming :-D Apr 12 13:24:36 how does one go about getting a 1973? Apr 12 13:25:11 oh nm Apr 12 13:25:14 i'll join announce Apr 12 13:25:18 thanks :) Apr 12 13:28:34 hey guys..just wondering...is there any chance of nethack on neo...would be awesome?! ;D Apr 12 13:28:44 koen: Would be sweet if you could have an optional backend to it.. For controlling mpd or xmms2 for example :) Apr 12 13:29:11 Sup3rkiddo: Sure. Apr 12 13:29:14 although the extensive commands would be a problem Apr 12 13:29:22 It's just a case of interfacing. Apr 12 13:29:29 With an external keyboard, it's trivial. Apr 12 13:29:52 You can even use fullscreen at 80*25 (with it close to your eye) Apr 12 13:30:00 LOL. Apr 12 13:32:30 Sup3rkiddo: I'd rather have ADOM on it ;) Apr 12 13:32:38 re Apr 12 13:32:59 ZAngband! Apr 12 13:33:09 CM: yeah but nethack would be classic..wouldnt it...its not that bloat as well... Apr 12 13:33:13 * Sup3rkiddo dreams on Apr 12 13:33:42 Sup3rkiddo: True.. I remember ADOM being slow to play on my 233mhx p2 Apr 12 13:35:08 CM: if theres an onscreen keyboard, maybe we could use it for interfacing...in the bottom half..and and a scrollable terminal running nethack.. Apr 12 13:35:54 Sup3rkiddo: use xstroke and some custome runes to control nethack, that would be way cooler Apr 12 13:35:56 I'd hope for a semi-transparent onscreen keyboard.. ;) Apr 12 13:36:07 XorA: Even better :) Apr 12 13:36:33 who will bell the cat? Apr 12 13:38:15 text input on the openmoko could be interesting - a lot of people have acceptable words-per-minute using predictive text and the number pad - how responsive is the touch screen? Has anyone here used it for text input? Apr 12 13:39:22 but why a preditive text when you could have a semi transparent on screen keyboard?.. Apr 12 13:42:33 because on a 2.8" screen, even a full-screen keyboard isn't really that great. Apr 12 13:42:52 Not to mention that the CPU has to do transparency. Apr 12 13:44:44 an onscreen numpad (like most phone have) that can be used for text input with a finger might be useful in some cases Apr 12 13:53:05 Vegar: +1 Apr 12 13:55:10 the quickstroke input method seems coolest on that site Apr 12 13:55:19 err, on the wiki re: input methods Apr 12 13:56:02 they have a java demo applet: http://mrl.nyu.edu/projects/quikwriting/ Apr 12 13:56:17 quikwriting, sorry Apr 12 14:30:45 jadams: Heh, that was pretty cool Apr 12 14:31:13 Took a minute to get that you're not supposed to lift the mouse, and how to typ the 2-steps out chars Apr 12 14:34:01 it's seems like it has a bit of a learning curve Apr 12 14:34:10 but actually not too bad Apr 12 14:34:31 It would probably work ok even on a small touchscreen Apr 12 14:34:50 how hard is actual handwriting recognition to do Apr 12 14:35:13 greghunt, imho very hard. Apr 12 14:35:33 Not that hard, according to cworth in this channel earlier Apr 12 14:35:46 if it would be easy or not too hard, there already would be handwriting recognition Apr 12 14:35:55 He had written one for X a long time ago, quite basic, but functional Apr 12 14:35:56 for the mainstream user, something intuitive like handwriting would be a good default Apr 12 14:36:54 counter Apr 12 14:36:54 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1 guess: 2 weeks, 4 days 21:23:04 (18.891 +-14.0 days) (835,157) Apr 12 14:37:10 greghunt: http://cworth.org/~cworth/papers/xstroke/html/ Apr 12 14:38:50 that looks cool, and easy to understand Apr 12 14:39:33 i always wondered how it worked, i had visions of fancy algorithms and things :) Apr 12 14:39:40 CM: like you can see in the headline: xstroke is gesture recognition, not handwriting recognition. it only knows specified gestures and can use that for recognize letter-like gestures. Apr 12 14:41:09 it's a good start, and looks similar to the system used on the p900 Apr 12 14:46:52 thomasg_: True.. cworth said he thought it was a bit naive and simple, but quick and working Apr 12 14:47:31 Good paper, I had no clue how that worked before Apr 12 14:47:37 yes, working, but imho not the best Apr 12 14:48:50 I'm afraid it has to be very simple to not be sluggish on the neo Apr 12 14:48:58 It's not a fast cpu Apr 12 14:49:14 never underestimate the speed of two thumbs. Apr 12 14:51:18 I can touch-text at speed with my thumbs on my 6230i Apr 12 14:51:30 if the screen is sensitive enough I could do the same Apr 12 15:03:24 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Wishlist:BuiltInScriptingLanguage]] [[UI_Improvements]] [[Buying_Interest_List]] [[Wishlist:Mesh_Networking]] [[GPS_Navigation]] Apr 12 15:09:12 re Apr 12 15:21:34 Dodji: now I know who you are. Fix libcroco! :) Apr 12 15:22:15 hmmh ? :-) Apr 12 15:22:38 zecke, It has been a long time since I touched that one, granted :-) Apr 12 15:22:54 Dodji: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=342370 Apr 12 15:23:39 zecke, bloody internet Apr 12 15:23:59 zecke, there was once peace and then the internet came in :-) Apr 12 15:24:09 hehe Apr 12 15:25:36 I remember when you could get a full usenet feed down a 14.4k modem Apr 12 15:25:39 I wondered why that bug looked familiar Apr 12 15:26:01 damn, I remember when I had a full usenet feed to my house ;-P Apr 12 15:26:07 and new tagline into sig generator.. Apr 12 15:26:10 usenet expanded faster than modem technology Apr 12 15:26:12 slightly Apr 12 15:27:20 * Stephmw clockwatches Apr 12 15:33:07 noid, for years a full news feed was about 4 hours of a bleeding-edge modem--at least for four generations of modems... Apr 12 15:33:36 * hrw never had to use modem as connection method for eachday use Apr 12 15:41:48 Is there anyone involved with Google Summer of Code here? Apr 12 15:41:49 Dan_E: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) Apr 12 16:04:24 do we have a profiler for openembedded Apr 12 16:10:05 howdy folks Apr 12 16:10:35 MacNorth, howdy Apr 12 16:14:19 anyidea why i get this message http://pastebin.ca/436549. Message comes while building flash image for qemu-neo1973 Apr 12 16:14:54 heh... 'splash' is not a number Apr 12 16:15:00 no kidding :-P Apr 12 16:16:12 MacNorth, i get same error for kernel and rootfs too, in later stage Apr 12 16:16:44 empty_mind: using the flash.sh script? Apr 12 16:16:45 RbdPngn: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) Apr 12 16:17:13 RbdPngn, yes Apr 12 16:17:27 i did a successful build a few days ago, and the console output is still lying around: http://pastebin.ca/436554 Apr 12 16:18:17 empty_mind: I had some issues with that script because it was killing it's flashing processes before they were done Apr 12 16:18:46 RbdPngn, so how did you fix it ? Apr 12 16:19:02 empty_mind: worked fine after I went into the flash.sh script and changed the timeout passed to the sleep calls Apr 12 16:19:20 ok, let me try Apr 12 16:19:28 not at the system atm, but its a param passed to one of the functions Apr 12 16:20:36 RbdPngn, the call in flash.sh happens to be a sleep Apr 12 16:21:48 it's a function that calls sleep Apr 12 16:22:00 RbdPngn, yes Apr 12 16:22:55 ah, the function is called uboot Apr 12 16:23:15 in the script you should see a line like: uboot $uboot_image 40 Apr 12 16:23:40 change the 40 to a larger number like 60 or 80 Apr 12 16:23:56 may want to increase the other uboot lines slightly too Apr 12 16:23:59 then try again Apr 12 16:50:18 hi all Apr 12 16:58:24 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Building_OpenMoko_from_scratch]] Apr 12 17:07:00 is qemu-neo1973 slower than real phone ? Apr 12 17:08:59 empty_mind: depends on machine which will run that qemu Apr 12 17:09:29 hrw, i am running it on a 2ghz intel processor with 1.5Gb of ram Apr 12 17:09:59 hrw, i dont notice any significant problems while running windows under qemu Apr 12 17:10:48 hi there. Apr 12 17:12:25 hrw, since you are the oe expert, i think you can help me in seting up a profiler for OM Apr 12 17:12:41 hrw, any idea how do i profile code for oe or OM Apr 12 17:13:33 empty_mind: windows on arm? Apr 12 17:14:09 LarstiQ, nope, windows installed under qemu Apr 12 17:14:38 LarstiQ, it is documentted on qemu wiki as windows on linux host Apr 12 17:14:41 empty_mind: if qemu-neo1973 is arm, you're emulating a different processor architecture.. Apr 12 17:15:21 LarstiQ, i dont understand your question, isnt this qemu-system-arm supposed to do ? Apr 12 17:16:32 empty_mind: yes but qemu-system-arm need to emulate processor = low speed Apr 12 17:16:47 hmm Apr 12 17:17:33 so how do i evaluate the performance of my code, provided i dont have the phone yet Apr 12 17:17:36 whereas windows runs on the same hardware as your host Apr 12 17:17:59 empty_mind: x86 qemu is faster then arm as you can use kqemu Apr 12 17:18:14 empty_mind: use profilers? Apr 12 17:18:20 empty_mind: you could profile it and see where the bottlenecks are, and eliminate those Apr 12 17:18:29 no need for emulation Apr 12 17:18:36 hola Apr 12 17:18:57 hrw, point is will profiler give me corect results under qemu, specially time consumed in a function Apr 12 17:19:04 koen, then ? Apr 12 17:19:17 empty_mind: run application on host Apr 12 17:19:59 empty_mind: wether you run that under qemu or not should not be really relevant Apr 12 17:20:12 empty_mind: only running on the actual hardware will give you real results Apr 12 17:20:23 hmm Apr 12 17:20:35 that means wait for 3 months Apr 12 17:20:43 empty_mind: it is possible there are extra snags of course, but getting rid of slow parts in general also helps the specific case Apr 12 17:20:44 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Getting_Openmoko_working_on_host_with_Xoo Apr 12 17:21:00 It's possible to ask people with P0 hardware to run stuff for you. Apr 12 17:21:05 If it's easily benchmarkable. Apr 12 17:21:18 or just profile on your workstation Apr 12 17:21:24 no need for emulation Apr 12 17:21:36 isn't re-using standard software great? Apr 12 17:21:42 filippo, xoo creates this big window which is bigger than my screen Apr 12 17:21:58 koen, it is Apr 12 17:21:59 modify the xml file Apr 12 17:22:07 profile on workstation, with FPU, and huge on-chip caches can be _horribly_ misleading. Apr 12 17:22:13 filippo, tried it, just crops the image thats it Apr 12 17:22:14 set margin to 0,0 Apr 12 17:22:45 filippo, ok Apr 12 17:22:46 you have to modify the starting point Apr 12 17:23:56 one reason for trying profiling was that LaF0rge said in meeting at blore that gtk+ is not performing upto speed. So wanted to check if this is an issue with gtk+ or my code Apr 12 17:25:10 you mean the 2 year old copy of gtk+ openmoko uses? Apr 12 17:25:21 koen, really ? Apr 12 17:25:27 is that true? Apr 12 17:26:21 gtk 2.6 is from 2005, do the math Apr 12 17:26:30 (hint, it's 2007 now) Apr 12 17:26:47 koen, i did not check gtk+ version Apr 12 17:27:05 koen, but why was such an old copy selected ? Apr 12 17:29:14 koen, how can i compile an openmoko with latest gtk+ copy ? Apr 12 17:32:38 hi dilinger_ Apr 12 17:33:16 openmoko.inc says this PREFERRED_VERSION_gtk+ = "2.6.10" Apr 12 17:33:37 koen, isnt 2.6.10 the latest gtk+ copy ? Apr 12 17:36:42 empty_mind: no, 2.10.11 was released march the 14th Apr 12 17:38:28 LarstiQ, dont know my openembedded dir has upto 2.10.9 bb receipe Apr 12 17:50:31 counter Apr 12 17:50:31 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1 guess: 2 weeks, 4 days 18:09:27 (18.757 +-14.0 days) (836,157) Apr 12 17:51:01 counter rises instead of decreasing Apr 12 17:51:02 :) Apr 12 18:15:40 wg 29 Apr 12 18:17:17 * koen raises with wg 31 Apr 12 18:17:31 lol Apr 12 18:17:39 +- 14 days Apr 12 18:17:39 XD Apr 12 18:17:48 that's a pretty big variance for 18 days Apr 12 18:26:08 hmm, guess I should submit a xoo package for fedora Apr 12 18:26:47 koen: lol :) Apr 12 18:26:53 koen: how's it going Apr 12 18:26:57 ? Apr 12 18:27:28 nng, i really need to replace this keyboard now.. now '?/' has got sticky... Apr 12 18:28:07 configure: error: *** XTEST extension libs not found and required *** Apr 12 18:28:15 anyone knows what provides those? Apr 12 18:28:21 robtaylor: pretty good Apr 12 18:28:31 robtaylor: how life across the pond? Apr 12 18:28:50 how's* Apr 12 18:29:14 ah xtestlib Apr 12 18:29:43 koen: not too bad. I've been getting more excited about task-based desktopns and High5 in general Apr 12 18:30:26 koen: so I've actually got some impetus to finsally sort out dbus-glib Apr 12 18:30:54 koen: then i'm gonna write a task-switcher applet :) Apr 12 18:31:51 * koen suggests "fixed point based desktops" ;) Apr 12 18:32:24 koen: heh, yeah i've been trying to replace my copy of foley+van dam so i can code up a decent scaling algo for that Apr 12 18:32:53 that reminds me, i'll go on amazon and do that now Apr 12 18:33:06 * LetoTo found libXtst Apr 12 18:34:14 robtaylor: getting ready for ELC? Apr 12 18:37:11 koen: yeah :) Apr 12 18:37:37 koen: i'm gonna stay on for a few more days after to hack on High5 aas well :) Apr 12 18:38:38 'Soylent gnome is people"? Apr 12 18:39:29 koen: indeed Apr 12 18:40:00 koen: http://live.gnome.org/High5/Soylent Apr 12 18:40:23 Lela: "No, that's soylent cola" Fry: "how does it taste?" Lela: "Varies from person to person" Apr 12 18:43:25 heh Apr 12 18:43:51 Wrote: /usr/src/redhat/SRPMS/xoo-0.7-1.src.rpm Apr 12 18:43:55 ok submitting to fedora :) Apr 12 18:54:24 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Talk:FAQ]] [[Wish_List]] [[Building_OpenMoko_from_scratch]] Apr 12 18:55:30 hi. is there any chance the p2 will support umts? Apr 12 18:56:11 no-one knows Apr 12 18:56:17 err Apr 12 18:56:18 quitte, doesn't seem likely; edge maybe Apr 12 18:56:19 p2 no Apr 12 18:56:26 quitte nope. p2 will eventually get edge Apr 12 18:56:40 further devices will probably include umts-capable ones Apr 12 18:56:40 cu Apr 12 18:56:43 the next neo might. probably not Apr 12 18:56:55 cya, hrw|gone Apr 12 18:57:00 :( yes i figured. too bad. getting umts here is easy. Apr 12 18:59:58 if at least there were providers here that had a discount for not using umts. but afaict that is not the case. Apr 12 19:00:40 well it's the same for me Apr 12 19:01:12 unlimited data plan for 10 euros/month, no difference in the price if i use gprs, edge or umts Apr 12 19:01:34 with the slight difference that edge is available to you Apr 12 19:02:01 so in that light i'd appreciate umts. the fact just is that i'm okay with gprs too. when i need more bandwidth, i'm probably in the reach of wlan anyway, so :/ Apr 12 19:02:41 i've never used edge... Apr 12 19:05:04 what'S the reasoning behind this? i guess there are no umts chipsets that can be used with at commands? Apr 12 19:05:14 budget, power, size, ... Apr 12 19:06:04 i see. well umts would drastically decrease how much i want wlan Apr 12 19:06:31 in any case i want to spend the 350$ rather today than tomorrow Apr 12 19:06:41 counter Apr 12 19:06:42 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1 guess: 2 weeks, 4 days 16:53:17 (18.704 +-14.0 days) (837,157) Apr 12 19:06:49 It'll be a bit after tomorrow ;) Apr 12 19:07:07 UTMS generally has terrible latency. Apr 12 19:07:14 i'm thinking the current state of umts chips is the reason Apr 12 19:07:28 It must be for technical reasons, it couldn't be because they want to discourage VOIP :) Apr 12 19:07:32 so for power consumption and compatibility Apr 12 19:07:45 technical reasons, definitelty Apr 12 19:07:52 Cost is a big reason. Apr 12 19:08:13 that too Apr 12 19:09:26 once the phone is vailable with sponsored contracts that shouldn'T be that much of an issue anymore. 350$ seems rather cheap for a phone that is not sponsored Apr 12 19:09:43 It is - though it's hard to get a 100% compare. Apr 12 19:09:59 As almost all the phones at a comparablish price point have wifi or cam. Apr 12 19:11:04 i don't understand why everybody pretends to need a cam anyways. the quality in a phone always will be poor because there is no space for decent optics Apr 12 19:11:12 Personally. Apr 12 19:11:24 I don't use a camera for taking pictures to show people. Apr 12 19:11:50 I use a camera for taking pictures of stuff I would otherwise need to write down. Apr 12 19:12:24 For example, labels in shops, to remember prices, for later comparison with other shops, or online. Apr 12 19:12:42 Or discussion when at home 'what do you think of a foo like this' ... Apr 12 19:12:54 I pity tha foo Apr 12 19:13:03 hmm. with a piece of ocr software to read barcode labels this might actually be useful Apr 12 19:13:09 That too. Apr 12 19:13:30 If you can read barcode labels, then you can take barcodes as you throw stuff away. Apr 12 19:13:39 and autogenerate shopping lists. Apr 12 19:13:47 who would actually ever do that Apr 12 19:14:28 REally handy for the blind. Apr 12 19:14:35 i would. i'm looking at the very same products and compare the very same prices every time i go shopping and the next day i miss essential food Apr 12 19:14:46 How does a blind person find a barcode? :\ Apr 12 19:14:58 It's basically an additional memory for those with poor memory. Apr 12 19:15:00 how does he use a phone without butons? Apr 12 19:15:05 that too, quitte Apr 12 19:15:20 I'm just saying that it's an app that has been used by blind people. Apr 12 19:15:29 And you wiggle the object around till it beeps. Apr 12 19:16:09 Though I'd really like other commonality - a diamond coated glass touchscreen - as they use in till scanner windows - with SAW to read it. Apr 12 19:16:12 * dho only misses food because he's awful at shopping Apr 12 19:18:08 hmm. yes. while it should be a very reasonable mp3 player it'd defiantely break when i used it while bmxing. but that should be solvable by some bluetooth headset Apr 12 19:23:16 2 Apr 12 19:23:58 dho: food, now I know what I'm missing. And ofcourse all the shops have almost closed :/ Apr 12 19:24:04 heh! Apr 12 19:24:05 run! Apr 12 19:24:18 I'll just drink more water ;) Apr 12 19:29:59 d Apr 12 19:30:02 a Apr 12 20:32:54 morning Apr 12 20:51:24 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Wish_List_-_Hardware]] [[Talk:FAQ]] Apr 12 21:19:43 omg. bluetooth barcode scanners are damn expensive Apr 12 21:21:06 get a serial one and chuck in a bluetooth - serial adaptor Apr 12 21:22:02 i hoped mentioning it here might leadt the inclusion of a led+fotosensor in p2 ;) Apr 12 21:29:00 quitte: one camera would help too:) Apr 12 21:29:17 Anyone seen luitvd? Apr 12 21:30:11 quitte - I think, p2 is quite fixed by now. Some rumours are out, that there are other designs in the making. Apr 12 21:30:32 (I already pondered the moko washing machine. ;o) ) Apr 12 21:30:36 ;) Apr 12 21:30:41 Elrond: coffee machine! Apr 12 21:31:03 Rince - No. Only washing machine. The gps is used for rotating sensoring. ;) Apr 12 21:31:11 (combined with the Jura coffee machine :) Apr 12 21:31:20 A barcode scanner and a low-end camera are actually ballpark in price. Apr 12 21:31:21 *g* Apr 12 21:31:29 SpeedEvil: why the camera? Apr 12 21:31:42 ... and the gsm to call your moko phone, when the laundry is done. ;) Apr 12 21:31:43 I was just using it as a comparison. Apr 12 21:31:46 I'd accept the barcode scanner but I don't see the need for a camera - on the contrary Apr 12 21:32:00 A camera can do barcode scanner duty. Apr 12 21:32:06 And is probably around the same price. Apr 12 21:32:30 okay, a camera can do OCR for business cards (like the SE p990 does) Apr 12 21:32:59 Cameras arn't only for taking pictures to exhibit. Apr 12 21:33:12 they are also for any situation where a visual record would be handy. Apr 12 21:34:00 From 'what price was that granite worktop I looked at last week' to 'has that crack opened in the last 6 months'. Apr 12 21:34:47 'who rebooted my phone' ;-) Apr 12 21:35:06 SpeedEvil: yes, not mentioning the fact that including camera can also be quite motivating for every geek playing with image recognition:) Apr 12 21:35:14 that too. Apr 12 21:35:56 but then cameras in both sides for videophone and umts of course *run and hide* Apr 12 21:36:26 Rince: actually, little mirror could solve this problem:) Apr 12 21:36:29 and wifi! don't forget wifi! Apr 12 21:36:29 * mmp hides too Apr 12 21:37:10 both sides? :F Apr 12 21:37:52 well yeah :) Apr 12 21:37:53 actually, I would already be happy if I could replace my current phone, because my battery is almost dead by now Apr 12 21:38:03 Ebay. Apr 12 21:38:04 if you have to see when you are taking a picture :) Apr 12 21:38:27 I want to have something with a proper addressbook. and I seem to have to wait until september ;) Apr 12 21:42:03 btw, is footer the "task manager" app? Apr 12 21:42:10 or is there something else planned for that? Apr 12 21:42:19 counter Apr 12 21:42:19 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1 guess: 2 weeks, 4 days 14:17:40 (18.596 +-14.0 days) (838,157) Apr 12 21:42:47 i had the chance to try out an ipaq for a few days and found out i was using it the most of all apps Apr 12 21:43:19 ...and also noticed how horrificly slow it was Apr 12 21:44:23 Something palm generally got right. Apr 12 21:45:11 palm got plenty of things right Apr 12 21:45:36 The adressbook, or what? Apr 12 21:45:49 yes and synchronisation Apr 12 21:46:05 i think most of the functionality worked okay Apr 12 21:46:25 tihi. I don't have an adressbook really anywhere in any syncable form. ;-) Apr 12 21:46:33 neither do i Apr 12 21:46:42 less +/Name adresses.txt Apr 12 21:46:43 ;o) Apr 12 21:46:53 phone numbers probably in my phone, but it's a mess Apr 12 21:47:07 a backup _would_ be nice Apr 12 21:47:20 guaqua - Oh, yeah. I have abused the first two chars for categorising. ;) Apr 12 21:47:39 guaqua - backup of the neo is simple. boot into u-boot and backup the rootfs via dfu. ;o) Apr 12 21:47:56 Elrond: yeah :) Apr 12 21:48:21 alternatively install rsync. ;-) Apr 12 21:48:24 what about vcard?:) Apr 12 21:48:34 but tapping the backup-button and automatically launching a wizard that asks if you wanna use which backup medium would be nicer :) Apr 12 21:49:00 computer, usb disk, network disk Apr 12 21:49:02 :) Apr 12 21:49:19 guaqua - Oh, you mean backing up to the san-over-iscsi-over-gprs? Apr 12 21:49:20 ;o) Apr 12 21:49:24 (script) planet: Michael "mickeyl" Lauer: Google SoC 2007 http://www.vanille-media.de/site/index.php/2007/04/12/google-soc-2007/ Apr 12 21:49:31 http://www.pimlico-project.org/ Apr 12 21:50:15 san-over-iscsi-over-ssh-over-pppoe-over-vpn-over-gprs Apr 12 21:50:34 :)) Apr 12 21:50:53 Elrond: why not? Apr 12 21:51:02 hmm Apr 12 21:51:07 openmoko: 03mickey * r1732 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/examples/ (5 files in 3 dirs): examples: add openmoko-gsmd-demo Apr 12 21:51:10 i wonder if pppoe actually works over vpn Apr 12 21:51:22 or if it needs pppoe-relay Apr 12 21:52:10 how much volt moko's accumulator have? Apr 12 21:52:22 it's a lithium-ion battery. Apr 12 21:52:24 i don't know how that said in english well Apr 12 21:52:28 So 3.7V nominal. Apr 12 21:52:32 guaqua: what use-case is there for pppoe over vpn? over what sort of vpn? over mpls l2vpn it should work but i don't think that you had that in mind ;) Apr 12 21:52:33 but how many volt ithave? 3.6? Apr 12 21:52:35 3.0-4.2V Apr 12 21:52:36 oh yes. Apr 12 21:53:10 openmoko: 03mickey * r1733 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/ (8 files in 3 dirs): openmoko-libs: add skeleton for MokoGsmdConnection class Apr 12 21:53:33 mickey|zzZZzz: ping :) Apr 12 21:54:03 zecke: Congrats for GSoC. Give use a great browser. :) Apr 12 21:54:03 openmoko: 03mickey * r1734 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/openmoko-libs/libmokoui/libmokoui.pro: libmokoui: add missing files to .pro build infrastructure Apr 12 21:54:05 nibbler_de: mmmmmm....let's not go there :D Apr 12 21:54:19 yay, zecke, congrats Apr 12 21:54:50 i'd also like to know more about that bluetooth-related project Apr 12 21:54:54 zecke: just on the way to bed... Apr 12 21:55:06 guaqua - Most VPNs do IP, not ethernet. tinc is one that can do ethernet. Apr 12 21:55:33 as in is support for sending files from and to other phones going to be implemented in it Apr 12 21:55:38 mickey|zzZZzz: well, I will catch you tomorrow Apr 12 21:55:45 zecke: for sure. thanks. g'night Apr 12 21:55:48 have a nice sleep Apr 12 21:56:05 you too. :) Apr 12 21:56:07 lovely ;) Apr 12 21:56:09 Elrond: vpn is one thing i'd actually want from my phone, but the others..... :) Apr 12 21:56:22 quitte: you want cryptophone-next generation? ;) Apr 12 21:56:34 although how would coda fs work etc? Apr 12 21:57:15 Hey... long time I hear again of coda. Apr 12 21:57:25 sorry, not quette, guaqua ;) Apr 12 21:57:32 guaqua - Are you using coda for anything real? Apr 12 21:57:58 Elrond: nope Apr 12 21:58:04 but this might be an actual use case Apr 12 21:58:22 Rince: using vpn for all connections when you are in an insecure wlan would be nice :/ Apr 12 21:58:55 guaqua: of course! Apr 12 22:01:17 guaqua - I was looking for a nice networked fs (for online mostly). The inly one I liked was the pay-for-it ibm thingy. coda and openafs were the next candidates... Apr 12 22:02:21 i'll have to take a look at how sshfs and fish-kioslave work Apr 12 22:02:48 sshfs works nicely, to my surprise. Apr 12 22:03:16 meaning not "how well", but rather "which way" Apr 12 22:03:17 I did "apt-get install sshfs" put myself in the fuse group, and it just worked. I was quite surprised. Apr 12 22:03:33 fish-kioslave works like a charm too Apr 12 22:04:49 sshfs seems to use sftp-protocol Apr 12 22:05:03 Yep. Apr 12 22:05:18 so coda would be a better solution Apr 12 22:05:39 unless you are either using very small files or just need to transfer files Apr 12 22:06:10 basically i was thinking of playing music from home computer or sync music collection from home computer Apr 12 22:06:26 gprs isn't enough for streaming though Apr 12 22:07:10 It'll do high quality 32kbps audio! Apr 12 22:07:35 :) Apr 12 22:07:38 WMA Apr 12 22:09:55 off to sleep, cyas Apr 12 22:10:04 Huh. Apr 12 22:46:24 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Getting_Openmoko_working_on_host_with_Xoo]] [[Buying_Interest_List]] [[Wish_List]] [[Wish_List_-_Hardware]] Apr 12 22:50:10 balrog-kun: pingggg Apr 12 23:33:57 counter Apr 12 23:33:57 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1 guess: 2 weeks, 4 days 12:26:01 (18.518 +-14.0 days) (839,157) Apr 12 23:34:08 openmoko: 03zecke * r1735 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/applications/openmoko-rssreader/src/ (callbacks.c main.c): Apr 12 23:34:08 openmoko: openmoko-rssreader: Implement as-you-type filtering on RSS articles Apr 12 23:34:08 openmoko: Use the search bar to filter items on the fly. Fix the refcounting Apr 12 23:34:08 openmoko: when using _get of the GtkTreeModel. Apr 12 23:56:45 morning Apr 13 00:43:24 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Talk:E17]] [[Wishlist:GeoP2P]] [[Contacts]] [[Migration_to_bad_block_tolerant_builds]] [[Gsmd]] Apr 13 01:06:18 counter Apr 13 01:06:18 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1 guess: 2 weeks, 4 days 10:53:40 (18.454 +-14.0 days) (840,157) Apr 13 01:31:47 now it's ltrace's turn to break the build.. (is a 'make fetch' possible with MokoMakefile?) Apr 13 02:38:24 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Details_List]] [[Navigation_List]] [[Filter_Menu]] [[Application_Menu]] [[UI_Improvements]] **** ENDING LOGGING AT Fri Apr 13 02:59:56 2007