**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon May 07 02:59:56 2007 May 07 05:45:01 Hello All, I have LCD panel Connected with SPI bus,When i have to configure the LCD driver I supposed to send the register number and then the value of the register [In Serial manner ].And there are two pins on the LCD driver 1) command /Data 2 ) read/write .So i assume that when configuring LCD panel , i First configure as command , write and then data , write . Can anyone pls correct me if i m wrong , or also Please tell me If i m corre May 07 05:45:01 ct ? May 07 07:09:03 good morning May 07 07:24:47 morn' May 07 07:28:09 morning May 07 07:43:02 hi all May 07 07:43:26 is it possible to buy already an openmoko phone? May 07 07:43:42 counter May 07 07:43:42 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 : >= 2007-05-10 (uncertainty is a guess) P1: a week 16:16:15 (7.678 +-3.5 days) (1101;195) May 07 07:44:17 Zenton: That was for you. May 07 07:44:30 thanks hads :) May 07 07:45:20 hugo_nz: NZer I see. May 07 07:45:32 yup May 07 07:45:50 Where abouts are you from? May 07 07:47:06 NZ. I prefer to be vague online May 07 07:47:24 Fair enough. May 07 07:47:31 why do you ask? May 07 07:47:36 are you an NZer too? May 07 07:47:46 Yeah. Just being nosey :) May 07 07:48:03 I'm from Timaru. May 07 07:48:28 cool. you doing dev work on OpenMoko or just hanging out here? May 07 07:49:02 Just hanging out presently, I'm interested in doing some at some stage. May 07 07:52:25 same. i'm waiting for the gen1.5 hardware, by which time presumably the software will be usable as a day-to-day phone. then I'll buy one and probably do some kernel hacking. haven't done any embedded linux stuff for a while and I'm missing it :) May 07 07:53:29 Yeah, similar here, I'm contemplating picking one up maybe Phase 1+ to have a play. I'm no kernel hacker though. May 07 07:54:45 well i'm no kernel hacker either (in so much as i don't work on the core kernel), but i've done work porting embedded linux to ARM boards before and as such, written a bunch of kernel drivers for hardware May 07 07:55:38 i'm interested in particular in working on open source navigation code for the GPS (to replace the current binary blob), and maybe on the power management stuff in the kernel May 07 07:55:51 wow, I almost count as a NZer as well May 07 07:55:54 Cool, I'm just a general hack :) May 07 08:00:49 * aloril is hopeful that counter is correct this time, it sounds production is starting in China soon (at Friday production was being transferred there) May 07 08:01:19 counter May 07 08:01:20 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 : >= 2007-05-10 (uncertainty is a guess) P1: a week 15:58:38 (7.666 +-3.5 days) (1102;195) May 07 08:02:51 kelvin__: Almost? May 07 08:21:28 (script) openmoko-community: Werner Almesberger Re: Input Method - Missing Buttongrip May 07 09:03:52 morning May 07 09:05:16 hrw: hi Marcin May 07 09:54:13 counter May 07 09:54:13 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 : >= 2007-05-10 (uncertainty is a guess) P1: a week 14:05:44 (7.587 +-3.5 days) (1103;195) May 07 09:55:59 The first batch should be made this week.. Hope all goes well :) May 07 09:56:08 err... what is it... a week and 14 hours, or 05-10? May 07 09:57:10 05-10 to produce them, but ordering is later May 07 09:57:21 Then 05-20 for the second run May 07 09:58:04 hmm May 07 09:58:26 so P1 is here any day now May 07 09:59:19 Yes, LaF0rge said last friday that the first batch was being produced in the factory right now, iirc May 07 09:59:20 so fucking nice. May 07 09:59:49 no, theyre _moving_ it into the factory May 07 09:59:49 *waiting anxiously May 07 09:59:53 heheh May 07 10:00:19 Ah, guess I didn't recall correctly then. Sorry May 07 10:00:54 * LuitvD can't wait May 07 10:01:44 I wonder what the production run looks like :P May 07 10:03:57 or even the production facility May 07 10:04:39 Where are is the production facility at? May 07 10:21:12 counter May 07 10:21:12 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 : >= 2007-05-10 (uncertainty is a guess) P1: a week 13:38:45 (7.569 +-3.5 days) (1104;195) May 07 10:34:40 hi May 07 10:38:55 hey, i'm getting error: /usr/bin/ld: cannot find -lz after doing, make update-makfile, make update, make setup, make qemu May 07 10:39:08 no libz ? May 07 10:39:22 or zlib May 07 10:39:29 i'll check thanks woglinde May 07 10:41:22 i'm on ubuntu i'm not sure what zlib would be called? May 07 10:41:30 same as on debian May 07 10:41:51 zlib1g-dev May 07 10:45:12 zlib*-dev doesn't find anything May 07 10:45:43 found it in synaptic May 07 10:47:08 apt-cache search zlib ? May 07 10:47:29 it's okay i've found it now, thank you May 07 10:48:57 now i get: Splash needs 'pngtopnm' and 'ppmtorgb3' - make sure that they're in $PATH. May 07 10:49:17 after running make update, make setup, then make qemu May 07 10:49:59 kelvin__: The factory is in mainland China somewhere May 07 10:50:49 hehe May 07 10:51:02 dont know if ot works on unbuntu May 07 10:51:09 CM: Ah, thanks! May 07 10:51:16 there is a genius programm auto-apt May 07 10:51:20 foer debian May 07 10:51:26 apt-get install auto-apt May 07 10:51:33 auto-apt update May 07 10:51:37 than auto-apt run May 07 10:52:01 then type your favorite executable eg. pngtopnm May 07 10:52:09 and it will install the rigth packge May 07 10:52:11 or not May 07 10:52:25 if there isnt package which contains the programm May 07 10:52:30 counter May 07 10:52:30 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 : >= 2007-05-10 (uncertainty is a guess) P1: a week 13:07:28 (7.547 +-3.5 days) (1105;195) May 07 10:53:16 hello xkr47 :P May 07 10:54:27 hi! May 07 10:54:49 * xkr47 wonders whether he should build an alarm-clock-mp3-player from nslu2 or openmoko :) May 07 10:54:50 also waiting for a P1 device? :P May 07 10:54:58 nslu2? May 07 10:55:09 hehe May 07 10:55:09 i'm waiting for phase 1+ May 07 10:55:23 LuitvD, I guess I am waiting yeah May 07 10:55:25 :) May 07 10:55:30 woglinde: thanks i'm just trying what you said now May 07 10:55:58 webjames: me too :P May 07 10:56:44 out in june i think May 07 10:57:14 perfect timing for my birthday actually :P May 07 10:57:39 plenty time for me to get one by august 1st May 07 10:58:35 openmoko temporarily had perfect timing for my birthday, but no longer :P May 07 10:58:58 :P May 07 10:58:59 LuitvD, nslu2 = linux machine with 8MB flash, 32MB ram, 2 usb ports and a 10/100 network interface May 07 10:59:21 hmm, hadn't heard of it yet... May 07 10:59:34 LuitvD, if you open it up and do some soldering you can get 3 more usb ports, a rs/232 serial port and a i2c port May 07 10:59:47 it costs some $80 and is quite small May 07 11:00:28 80 dollars? ... what kind of proc does it have? May 07 11:03:40 ixp420 May 07 11:05:34 hmm, can buy a nice full-blown computer for 40 euro's :P May 07 11:06:01 turned out i needed netpbm May 07 11:07:48 webjames *g* May 07 11:08:28 it's running now! yay! May 07 11:08:50 did auto-apt run? May 07 11:08:59 i'd rather have this then an nslu2: http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t235/JiePieWie/DSC08314.jpg May 07 11:09:39 yeah.. but it wanted to install so much stuff i, so i went on google and found that those two packages were part of the netpbm package, so i installed that May 07 11:09:52 LuitvD: how big it is? May 07 11:10:06 debian has packages.debian.org for search May 07 11:10:14 dont know if ubuntu has the smae May 07 11:10:22 packages.ubuntu.com May 07 11:10:36 nice, i'll bookmark that May 07 11:10:38 http://packages.ubuntu.com/ May 07 11:10:39 thanks hrw May 07 11:10:46 np May 07 11:11:04 * woglinde dont see any benefits in using ubuntu May 07 11:11:12 hrw: not sure... it's the neoware neostation 3000c anyways May 07 11:13:06 2x serial, 1x parallel, 2x usb May 07 11:13:15 10/100 network May 07 11:13:42 and an amd geode processor instead of ARM May 07 11:15:38 LuitvD: http://www.ewayco.com/ May 07 11:16:15 hrw: all way more expensive May 07 11:17:39 LuitvD: I want SMALL machine ;) May 07 11:17:46 :P May 07 11:18:15 hrw: my ideal is budget... small is just some nice coincidence May 07 11:18:43 thanks guy for the help! especially woglinde.. bye bye! May 07 11:19:16 I am more and more thinking about nfs server May 07 11:19:21 http://www.ewayco.com/0-embedded-systems-prod-pages/TX-tablet-pc.html seems quite nice May 07 11:20:48 800 USD May 07 11:21:25 rather have a neo1793 for that amount of money :P May 07 11:21:35 that's like €0.10 with the current exchange rate May 07 11:21:40 a neo + a budget laptop... May 07 11:22:14 looks like Ubuntu making a run for the mobile market too... May 07 11:22:41 let's hope they are as clueless as the µbuntu dudes May 07 11:22:48 :P May 07 11:22:58 µbuntu? never heard of it May 07 11:23:00 "embedded linux is like normal linux but with only 100MB of storage" May 07 11:23:15 ;D May 07 11:23:19 lol May 07 11:23:25 I can borrow them collie ;) May 07 11:23:47 I bet they gave up when they noticed everything needed a keyboard and mouse and they only have a touchscreen May 07 11:23:57 and some buttons May 07 11:24:32 if you're lucky May 07 11:24:49 come on... even the neo has two buttons :P May 07 11:25:31 I gave up trying to educate people after the "OMG!!!! e17 on ne0!!!!one!!one!!" discussion last month May 07 11:26:17 hm? e17? May 07 11:27:18 guess I missed some things lately :P May 07 11:41:28 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Development_resources]] [[Hammerhead_protocol]] May 07 12:43:55 Will it be possible to buy the Neo1973 in bulk at a cheaper rate? I and a friend are wanting to open up a hacker oriented shop in NZ... And well it'd be a great device to sell here... May 07 12:44:56 Probably you're going to have to wait at least till it's released for info. May 07 12:45:12 Mm... Few more days then? May 07 12:45:17 which will be at least several weeks probably for the first version. May 07 12:45:28 Personally, I'd be surprised at a couple of weeks. May 07 12:45:32 I may be wrong. May 07 12:46:10 Oh.. So many dates, I've seen 10th of this month around a few places. May 07 12:46:51 Well. May 07 12:47:05 10th of the month is the first production run of PCBs as I understand it. May 07 12:47:19 But, PCBs are not what's slowing things down at the moment, it's screens. May 07 12:47:30 And there has been no announcement that the screen problems are resolved. May 07 12:48:04 What are the display problems? May 07 12:48:29 availability? May 07 12:49:02 Basically. May 07 12:49:17 The manufacturer is having problems making them. May 07 12:49:18 Ah yeah, that was another question I have.. Screens and dead pixel policy... Anything known about that? May 07 12:49:30 Dunno. May 07 12:52:16 http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/announce/2007-April/000012.html May 07 12:52:23 Acxtually, it's ratehr ambiguous. May 07 12:52:36 It may be referring to complete units being produced, or just PCBs. May 07 12:52:51 And they say they have screens on hand - but not if it's 50 or 5000. May 07 12:54:32 if they mean complete units, then it could be quite soon? May 07 12:55:01 Possibly. May 07 12:55:51 May 10, say a day for the run, to may 11, a couple of days testing them, a day packing, and then a week shipping May 07 12:56:08 Geez, the neo1973 has 128 meg of ram, is that right? May 07 12:56:14 Optimist! May 07 12:56:18 Yes. May 07 12:56:18 10th day so far seems to hold, Friday it was said that production is being moved to China May 07 12:57:04 * aloril understood announcement this way: there is limited supply of screens, so 10th and 20th runs will be limited too May 07 12:57:06 DukeOfURL: that'd pretty much be soonest possible, say late may. May 07 12:57:15 Geez... That's a lot of ram... Here I was thinking it'd teach me how to write good effecient apps that are careful with memory, because of constraints.. But it's got 128MB... man, that's huge. May 07 12:57:17 and in June actual production starts May 07 12:57:19 right May 07 12:57:20 I diddn't get that from it. May 07 12:58:30 Mukunda: well, CPU is limited still ;-) May 07 12:59:16 128 meg for the commercial one, or the development ones as well? May 07 12:59:29 greghunt: its same hardware May 07 12:59:36 my phase0 neo has 128M ram May 07 12:59:41 i thought the devel ones only had 64megs :/ May 07 12:59:48 * aloril thinks within few days we should hear more May 07 13:00:07 greghunt: that sounds like hearsay May 07 13:00:07 greghunt: 64M flash May 07 13:00:20 ah maybe that's were I was confused May 07 13:00:44 hrw: ah you have one? Any chance you have any videos of it? I'm actually wondering how many lines of text the screen could display (yes I know, depends on font size blah blah). May 07 13:01:08 The screen isn't the problem. May 07 13:01:13 The screen can do 80*25 May 07 13:01:20 It's your eyes. May 07 13:01:42 Obtain a bit of paper and a ruler. May 07 13:01:49 Yeah, well taht's why a photo/video would be cool. May 07 13:01:53 Now, cut down the paper to 43*58mm May 07 13:02:08 Mukunda: my camera do only 320x200 if not worse May 07 13:02:13 Ah haha, and then put 25 lines... :-\ May 07 13:02:31 Adjust your screen window to that size. May 07 13:03:00 I found that 40*20 was fairly readable at normal phone distances. May 07 13:03:27 Maybe 50*20 or so if proportional. May 07 13:03:39 And maybe half that - 20*10 for 'normal' use. May 07 13:04:31 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973_AUX_button ois a closeup May 07 13:05:37 Thanks. May 07 13:05:48 Wow... That is amazingly sharp that screen. May 07 13:06:23 300 dpi May 07 13:16:39 hrw: how long does the battery on the Neo1973 seem to last? May 07 13:18:08 my battery has been sitting on my Neo for about 4 weeks wihtout dissapearing :-D May 07 13:18:09 43*58? my drawing is quit a bit larger. May 07 13:18:48 XorA: awesome, okay so battery doesn't magically get up and walk away, noted. May 07 13:22:15 ok 43*58 is correct. seems i drew by guessing from the case size. can someone tell me the dimensions of the pcb? May 07 13:23:20 Mukunda: phase0 phones has broken power managment May 07 13:29:34 hrw: I take it that's just a software issue though? May 07 13:30:15 Mukunda: in phase0 it is hardware May 07 13:30:25 but it was already fixed in next version May 07 13:35:56 Hrm, don't the atheros wifi's chips use binary blobs? May 07 13:38:08 Hm darn it does. May 07 13:38:32 That's a shame, and I hear those little things would be nigh impossible to reverse engineer. May 07 13:41:03 quitte: look on the wiki. May 07 13:41:16 The 'neo1973' hardware page. May 07 13:41:24 Look at the 'dissasembly pictures'. May 07 13:41:42 About 60*80 May 07 13:53:38 Mukunda the ar6k does only have firmware, no binary blob on the app cpu as far as i know May 07 13:54:35 Mukunda not comparable to thze madwifi stuff ;) the hw is more like a hermes wireless card connected via sdio May 07 13:56:15 yeah May 07 14:41:23 will there be a way to send video data to a projector (VGA/DVI) from the Neo1973? May 07 14:41:23 ironChicken: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) May 07 14:42:17 ironChicken: Only if you have a selfpowered USB1 vga connector with linux support. May 07 14:42:30 :D May 07 14:42:35 if, and only if May 07 14:43:02 or just usb1 vga connector with linux support May 07 14:43:16 the power can be handled through a special hub May 07 14:43:45 right, should be fine if you connect it to a video projector/monitor anyway. May 07 14:45:18 sean should join the wireless-africa google group :) May 07 14:47:24 I think in addition to Asia the neo1873 should "launch" in various African countries ... where mobile rules telecommunications and "disruptive" innovations might be welcome :) May 07 14:48:04 there's no software yet May 07 14:48:28 and there's no reason fic wouldn't sell to african countries aswell May 07 14:49:12 stefan_schmidt: cool. i see. May 07 15:13:24 guaqua, what's the status of 802.* support? May 07 15:13:38 no idea May 07 15:13:52 should work once we get hardware for that May 07 15:14:30 so no suitable hardware yet ... May 07 15:14:34 hmm May 07 15:15:17 there might be wifi in phase 1.5 May 07 15:18:40 cool May 07 15:18:54 The Atheros chipset May 07 15:19:56 hmm maybe with the plans on the wiki something could be soldered in :) May 07 15:20:23 or the neo could be bolted to a linksys router :-D May 07 15:20:35 Hehe May 07 15:21:05 ~last rwhitby May 07 15:21:16 äh.. May 07 15:21:25 ~seen rwhitby May 07 15:21:39 rwhitby is currently on #oe (5d 6h 21m 7s) #openmoko (5d 6h 21m 7s) #nslu2-linux (5d 6h 21m 7s) #openjtag (5d 6h 21m 7s) #openslug (5d 6h 21m 7s). Has said a total of 73 messages. Is idling for 14h 43m 16s, last said: 'ok, I see the patches now'. May 07 15:21:53 apt: botsnack May 07 15:21:53 CM: thanks May 07 15:41:28 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Wishlist:Unlikely]] [[Buying_Interest_List]] May 07 15:48:03 hi May 07 15:55:57 openmoko: 03laforge * r1918 10/trunk/src/target/u-boot/patches/uboot-smdk2440.patch: * correctly initialize GPIO (as per schematics) May 07 15:58:58 openmoko: 03laforge * r1919 10/trunk/src/target/u-boot/patches/ (17 files): May 07 15:58:58 openmoko: * neo1973 reorganization, move GTA01 specific code into board/neo1973/gta01 May 07 15:58:58 openmoko: in preparation of the upcoming board/neo1973/gta02 May 07 16:00:36 openmoko: 03laforge * r1920 10/trunk/src/target/u-boot/patches/ (series uboot-arm920t_cp15_cmd.patch): remove patch for 'arm920t cp15' command that was never fully working May 07 16:02:52 counter? May 07 16:02:52 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 : >= 2007-05-10 (uncertainty is a guess) source: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/MokoMakefile ; P0: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Wishlist:Neo1973_P0_Review; a week 07:57:06 (7.331 +-3.5 days) for devices for *ANYBODY* for $350 (targeting developers) (preorders: not yet) (2007-05-13); 4 months, a week, a day (131.831 +-15.0 days) for mass market (2007-09-15): see topic for more info (1106;195) May 07 16:03:59 openmoko: 03laforge * r1921 10/trunk/doc/hardware/ (GTA02v1/ GTA02v1/gpio.txt SMDK2440/ SMDK2440/gpio.txt): add GPIO listings for GTA02v1 and SMDK2440 May 07 17:03:46 counter May 07 17:03:46 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 : >= 2007-05-10 (uncertainty is a guess) P1: a week 06:56:12 (7.289 +-3.5 days) (1107;196) May 07 17:08:20 Hello May 07 17:10:14 Hi webjames May 07 17:10:34 Hello Elrond! May 07 17:10:52 just running qemu with openmoko having a poke around, looking good! May 07 17:11:03 Cool. :-) May 07 17:12:05 Elrond: have you got a phase0 device? May 07 17:12:19 No. May 07 17:12:29 Sometimes I'd like one ;) May 07 17:13:02 Are you going to get a phase 1 device? or shall you be waiting for phase 1+ hardware refresh? May 07 17:14:47 I haven't yet decided. I want to wait for the announcement of the 1.5 hw details. May 07 17:15:08 If I buy one, I want the one with probable longer battery live. May 07 17:15:35 so the phase 1+ with wifi, plus a faster cpu? May 07 17:16:12 i do rather like the stroke recogniser! May 07 17:16:30 i wonder when the messages program will work? May 07 17:17:12 I have no idea. May 07 17:17:32 Elrond:have you got it running it qemu? May 07 17:17:54 Well, wifi would just be nice. The faster CPU probably would add a bit of battery time, as it doesn't take much more power, while being faster (so overall, it would safe) May 07 17:18:25 webjames - No. My current machine is not ready for a such a big build currently. May 07 17:18:44 yes, i think shorter loading times are always a bonus May 07 17:19:13 Elrond: in that case you'll have a nice surprise when you see it for the first time May 07 17:20:15 webjames - I have seen some screenshots, etc. May 07 17:20:29 I will have patches for the default theme, etc. May 07 17:20:34 openmoko: 03andrew * r1922 10/trunk/src/host/qemu-neo1973/ (hw/s3c24xx_udc.c usb-linux-gadget.c): Mask out all signals during gadgetfs writes to avoid interrupted calls (gadgtefs deficiency). May 07 17:21:33 Elrond: yeah, i'm really looking forward to it. i think i shall wait for the hardware refresh in june! though it all depends on the discount i would get if i did get one this month May 07 17:22:58 hi -- is there a place to go to purchase a phone for the may run or is it too early? May 07 17:22:58 kemp_: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) May 07 17:23:26 you are a little early, try typing 'counter' May 07 17:23:48 counter May 07 17:23:49 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 : >= 2007-05-10 (uncertainty is a guess) P1: a week 06:36:09 (7.275 +-3.5 days) (1108;197) May 07 17:24:32 haha nice. so there will presumably be an announcment on openmoko.(com|org) at that time? May 07 17:25:06 i would imagine so, i would guess openmoko.com is where the phones would be sold from May 07 17:25:27 great... i'll subscribe to the list too i guess, thanks May 07 17:25:37 yeah that should keep you posted May 07 17:25:56 june is the hardware refresh for phase 1+ devices May 07 17:27:48 great; can't wait :) May 07 17:27:55 :) May 07 17:37:29 is there a web interface for the counter? May 07 17:38:26 i'm heading out of town, want to get sms notification when the counter changes ;) May 07 17:38:27 dietricha - Don't think so. May 07 17:38:54 * dietricha wonders if aloril's source is available... May 07 17:43:15 reading the mailinglist archives confused me more than it gave me a clue. is it possible to receive a call while being online with gprs, or isn't it? May 07 17:46:33 quitte: it is May 07 17:46:50 quitte: and depending on the gprs radio packets will be on hold or flow like normail May 07 17:46:54 normal* May 07 17:47:06 the neo will have an old radio, so packets will be on hold May 07 17:53:38 * aloril2 changes [[Neo1973]] page when counter is changes, which usually happens when new mail appears at announce list May 07 17:56:24 s:is changes:is changed: May 07 17:57:49 * aloril2 ponders about creating page for counter outside openmoko.com that could include guesses and other unofficial information May 07 18:15:57 dietricha: most immediate notification would be to gateway openmoko anounce list to sms May 07 18:17:03 s:ano:anno: May 07 18:19:43 aloril2: k, thx May 07 18:20:12 Hiz :) May 07 18:21:26 guaqua: I don't think there are asny 1.1 VGA things May 07 18:24:53 * balrog-kun proposes gatewaying to sms, TV and radio May 07 18:27:37 actually even faster might be notification about openmoko.com change (should happen here within 15 minutes of it happening) May 07 19:07:09 hi May 07 19:07:12 counter May 07 19:07:12 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 : >= 2007-05-10 (uncertainty is a guess) P1: a week 04:52:45 (7.203 +-3.5 days) (1109;198) May 07 19:07:14 ... as it, right? May 07 19:07:23 +w May 07 19:18:50 Nebukadneza: no May 07 19:19:02 It's uncertain :P May 07 19:19:27 Mandarino: with "was it, right?" i meant the 'counter' command May 07 19:19:32 i know its uncertain May 07 19:23:04 Ah xD May 07 19:23:13 Nebukadneza: where are you from? May 07 19:23:39 germany May 07 20:05:00 counter May 07 20:05:00 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 : >= 2007-05-10 (uncertainty is a guess) P1: a week 03:54:57 (7.163 +-3.5 days) (1110;198) May 07 20:44:21 roh: sorry, does that mean the firmware in embedded in the hardware, unchangable, or is it loaded in userspace? May 07 20:47:43 SpeedEvil: that's what i thought too :) May 07 20:48:11 I've been looking for them slightly. May 07 20:48:22 As well as USB1.1 -> composite cheap. May 07 20:48:31 For car displays. May 07 20:49:05 :/ May 07 20:49:59 car displays? May 07 20:51:26 Small displays for guages and stuff. May 07 20:51:53 There are moderately cheap 2.5" or so composite displays that don't have much border, that take composite input. May 07 20:52:13 And if there was a nice way to connect them to a laptop, they'd do well for guages. May 07 20:52:23 * arw :) May 07 20:53:51 I wonder how cheap the neo1973'd be if you left off the case, made it non-touchscreen, pulled the GSM module. May 07 20:54:20 SpeedEvil: pure-GPS? May 07 20:54:40 dunno how much the gsm part is May 07 20:54:45 or how expensive May 07 20:54:48 i think you could save a lot by leaving out the CPU and the main PCB too May 07 20:55:09 GSM patent royalties are 5% - 15% stock phone price May 07 20:55:12 I was meaning more to act as a generic computer, rather than a mobile. May 07 20:55:31 balrog-kun: ^_^ May 07 20:55:37 SpeedEvil - Like a pda? ;) May 07 20:55:48 I mean for embedding into stuff. May 07 20:55:54 Ahh. May 07 20:56:23 For example, a neo-type thing embedded into a 3" circular mount might be handy for car use. May 07 20:56:24 Well, I guess the display is one of the expensivest parts anyway. So making it non-touch, will save a fair bit. May 07 20:56:37 And dropping to 320*200 May 07 20:56:45 Have you seend the displays that have replaced the guages in airliners. May 07 20:56:56 That sort of thing. May 07 20:57:00 But less expensive :) May 07 20:57:04 How do they make the display so bright in direct sunlight? May 07 20:57:11 How do you think. May 07 20:57:16 Lots of backlight power. May 07 20:57:16 ? May 07 20:57:16 isn't it gauge? May 07 20:58:12 Remove the neos 100mW backlight LEDs, put in 5W of really efficient backlight LEDs, and it's sunlight readable easily. May 07 20:58:24 * koen wonders how to get direct sunlight on the cockput gauges May 07 20:58:35 Chop the back off. May 07 20:58:45 side windows May 07 20:58:52 is the neo really crappy in sunlight? May 07 20:58:57 Yes :( May 07 20:59:00 Apparently. May 07 20:59:15 The display is not reflective at all. May 07 20:59:22 It completely relies on the backlight. May 07 20:59:30 oh May 07 20:59:31 crap May 07 21:00:00 Would a compromise have been possible? Like 90% backlight 10% reflective? May 07 21:00:24 There is a fundamental problem. May 07 21:00:38 To get it reflective, you've got to put a reflective layer at the back of the display. May 07 21:00:49 This typically absorbs half the light from the backlight. May 07 21:00:57 Yeah. May 07 21:01:19 But can't one use a not-so-reflective thing, which only absorbs 10% of the backlight? May 07 21:01:22 And you get at best some 4-5%. May 07 21:01:48 The theoretical maximum of a reflective colour display is some 16% reflection. May 07 21:02:02 Huh. May 07 21:02:11 As 1/2 gets absorbed by the polarisers, and 2/3 by the light hitting the wrong colour pixel. May 07 21:02:34 If you've got 50% reflection on the backlight, you're then looking at 8% theoretical max. May 07 21:02:42 And it's never close to this. May 07 21:03:16 This can be more or less adequate. May 07 21:03:25 But it's never very good. May 07 21:03:57 So the default is like 4%? May 07 21:04:00 The OLPC is a potentially interesting exception. May 07 21:04:04 Something like that. May 07 21:04:12 For most reflective/backlit displays. May 07 21:04:38 Well, 0.5% reflection would still be good for use-in-sun. May 07 21:04:56 Well - absent other problems. May 07 21:05:09 Yeah, of course. May 07 21:05:24 The other problems are that the display has a plastic film to make the touchscreen, then an air gap, then the glass of the display. May 07 21:05:34 You get reflections from all three of these surfaces. May 07 21:05:47 I want to say "bad reflection is better than no reflection", if "bad reflection" imprves "backlight pass-throuh". May 07 21:06:22 I dunno. I'd need to play a bit with candidate displays. May 07 21:06:41 heh.. i have a olpc board here May 07 21:06:55 just not the case and the display... it has a vga output instead May 07 21:07:24 Ahh, there was a project with the olpc board in a normal case. May 07 21:07:33 Just for "you need a small pc" applications. May 07 21:07:51 ... it was some funny project where you buy two boxes, one for yourself, one for someone "in need". May 07 21:08:07 Elrond nope. its a prototype board from the beta phase May 07 21:08:14 B1 or so its called. May 07 21:08:44 it also is missing the extra scaler they put between graphics card and display May 07 21:08:55 Not a scaler as such. May 07 21:09:13 Also does fun stuff like running the display with the CPU off. May 07 21:09:51 what kinds of stuff will the neo1973 be capable of(hardware wise) May 07 21:10:07 Think of a pentium 100 or so. May 07 21:10:07 will it be able to play games like battle for wesnoth May 07 21:10:24 commander keen run on 8086 PC :) May 07 21:10:25 With a 2.8" touchscreen, and no buttons. May 07 21:10:43 ohhhh, I love commander keen May 07 21:10:46 It's quite enough for full-screen action games. May 07 21:10:55 Doom II, for example. May 07 21:11:05 But the problem there is controls. May 07 21:11:14 someone ran freeciv on a neo May 07 21:11:27 im willing to bet there will be a aftermarket cable so we can plug in gamepads May 07 21:11:39 You can use a wiimote with it. May 07 21:11:55 is wiimote USB? May 07 21:11:58 commander keen with a wiimote :> May 07 21:12:01 does the phase1 have bluetooth May 07 21:12:06 yes May 07 21:12:07 it has May 07 21:12:08 wiimote if bluetooth May 07 21:12:09 wiimote is bluetooth May 07 21:12:12 ah May 07 21:12:16 cool May 07 21:12:23 are there linux drivers for it? May 07 21:12:26 Or there are little BT keyboards. May 07 21:12:29 yea May 07 21:12:32 Vegar there are May 07 21:12:32 counter May 07 21:12:33 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 : >= 2007-05-10 (uncertainty is a guess) P1: a week 02:47:25 (7.116 +-3.5 days) (1111;198) May 07 21:12:51 * SpeedEvil doesn't trust the counter. May 07 21:12:59 It's lied to me so many times. May 07 21:13:58 SpeedEvil i'm shure it will be this month for p1 and a lot of people getting one May 07 21:14:39 Can you clarify if the 'run' of the 10th and ... is of PCBs or does it end up with shippable boxes. May 07 21:15:03 I know this isn't the right place ... but it is the right crowd. what's the story with the gp2x? is it gonna get a hardware update(mk3) or is it going to die off? May 07 21:15:04 MrFeetio: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) May 07 21:15:28 mrfeetio worng channel May 07 21:15:29 * SpeedEvil would have been interested in the gp2x, but no wifi. May 07 21:15:33 woglinde: hey May 07 21:15:36 he zecke May 07 21:15:52 is the main gp2x channel on freenode? May 07 21:15:53 SpeedEvil - NO WARRANTY: http://koolu.com/ May 07 21:16:15 /join #gp2x and see? May 07 21:16:23 dont know if it exist May 07 21:16:43 I don't think it is.... and if it is the gp2x is dead May 07 21:17:10 production of it stopped May 07 21:17:14 so you may consider it dead May 07 21:18:31 it is a sad death, but it didn't have a big enough nich, now if it had a touch screen and could be a phone then it would have had a chance May 07 21:18:34 if I remember correctly one the father of one one of the founders of the gp2x has large chip manufatory and thats the only reason why gp2x exist May 07 21:23:04 SpeedEvil the run means the pcb will be combined with the parts in the factory. after that the QA checks them May 07 21:24:08 I mean is it just PCB assembly. Or does it end in a shippable unit. May 07 21:24:11 Oh. May 07 21:24:56 SpeedEvil it ends in a shippable unit, but in dunno if its the same day. May 07 21:25:07 SpeedEvil just don't panic ;) May 07 21:25:09 Probably not I expect. May 07 21:25:41 If there are going to be minimal tests. May 07 21:25:47 :) May 07 21:25:49 roh - So at 12th there should be some boxes, but QA will examine a few of them? May 07 21:25:57 i assume that shipping will take longer than completing them May 07 21:26:27 Well, for EU those compliance tests are needed, still, right? May 07 21:26:54 No. May 07 21:26:59 You can self-certify. May 07 21:27:17 How does "self-certify" work? May 07 21:27:33 But you need to supply a 'technical construction file' showing that you have good reason to believe that it passes. May 07 21:27:43 You don't have to actually test every device. May 07 21:28:13 But if you don't, and you don't show that you had good reason to believe that it would pass, and it doesn't pass when it ends up tested, the fines can be moderately large. May 07 21:28:28 Not to mention stuff like it getting pulled from shelves. May 07 21:29:13 Practically, on something like the neo1973, you would need to do EMC tests. But these could be done on a representative prototype. May 07 21:29:57 Ahh. May 07 21:30:02 Elrond i have the greatest confidence in my taiwanese and chinese collegues there. atm fic i selling a million phones or so every year, so builing a gsm phone is nothing new we need to learn :) May 07 21:30:52 roh - Good. So I guess they know the certification business. May 07 21:31:04 Of course. May 07 21:31:07 In practice. May 07 21:31:10 yep May 07 21:31:22 There is no active testing. May 07 21:31:34 the new thing is: its real opensource. not the phone business itself May 07 21:31:39 It needs to be reported by someone. Who may be a competitor. May 07 21:31:49 The phone is pretty much just another phone. May 07 21:32:09 I remember trisoft wanting to do some more official tests or so. May 07 21:32:12 Except for the documentes. May 07 21:34:18 does the phone require FCC certification or does the DSM chip? May 07 21:34:27 s/DSM/GSM/ May 07 21:34:27 DukeOfURL meant: does the phone require FCC certification or does the GSM chip? May 07 21:35:52 afaik its the whole gsm(radiomodem) which gets certified. meaning also the pcb design and the shielding around it in a test procedure which also has temperature and similar physical tests in a lab May 07 21:37:17 roh - Did that already happen? May 07 21:38:02 will openmoko run on a Motorola Q? May 07 21:39:01 Elrond afaik, but i can have mixed some things up there. i also did not loot at the results May 07 21:39:10 MrFeetio - If you get linux to boot.... and if it has enough RAM/CPU... probably yes. May 07 21:39:29 Elrond but thats what the collegues in production are there for. thats where they are good at May 07 21:39:57 roh - Okay. So CE testing is happening also. May 07 21:40:07 of course May 07 21:40:24 as i said.. its not their first phone. on the contrary May 07 21:41:28 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Wish_List_-_Hardware]] [[Dfu-util]] May 07 21:41:34 Well, from what I gathered, it is their first phone with geeks looking at picky details. ;o) May 07 21:44:44 Elrond the biggest problem is to get something usefull out of the availible components. since we want to build sth. open and want to have you all get access to datasheets of the soldered chips we need to be quite picky May 07 21:45:27 roh - The "picky" was meant 100% positive. :) May 07 21:46:00 yes. May 07 21:48:41 It's one of the parts I like about the neo. It looks like really good hardware. Not like standard hardware ("the stupid customer wont notice the difference anyway"). May 07 21:52:30 Elrond i for example also want a 3.5mm jack and make shure it really make a good sound on the headphones. May 07 21:52:48 so no need for long mailthreads there ;) May 07 21:52:50 http://www.pro-estonia.koliber.edu.pl/ May 07 21:54:33 KrzysiekBielicki: umm, wrong channel May 07 21:54:59 sorry, but it's very important for us May 07 21:55:14 we are using every possible channel May 07 21:55:19 roh: I assume no progress on the GPS datasheets? Or binary module? May 07 21:55:27 s/module/userspace program/ May 07 21:55:28 SpeedEvil meant: roh: I assume no progress on the GPS datasheets? Or binary userspace program? May 07 21:56:39 apt nothing new i know of. but i will not be standing in anybodys way who wants to plain hack that ;( May 07 21:56:46 eh :) May 07 21:57:39 I assume you ahve no good thoughts on why the poking the GPS with the same strings as on the tomtom results in 0x00 as the only byte? May 07 21:57:52 roh - Did anyone inside FIC see any single bits from the Hammerhead in Bv03/04 ? May 07 21:58:18 dunno. my info were that somebody tested that they work May 07 21:58:22 SpeedEvil - Wait, we got a 0x00 finally? Instead of plain nothing? May 07 21:58:34 Someone said that tehy did. May 07 21:58:40 On each powerup and down. May 07 21:58:55 However, it should send lots more than that. May 07 21:59:43 Right. May 07 22:00:10 If I get a phone, I'll research that deeper. May 07 22:00:16 ... and file lots of UI bugs. ;o) May 07 22:01:32 * SpeedEvil is probably going to try porting megatunix to it. May 07 22:01:46 Which is the control panel for a DIY ECU. May 07 22:02:21 ECU? May 07 22:02:28 Engine control unit. May 07 22:02:39 Ahh. May 07 22:02:47 http://megasquirt.info/ May 07 22:02:52 soldering iron ++ May 07 22:05:18 ;) May 07 22:14:12 re May 07 22:25:01 Hi CoreDump|home! May 07 22:25:54 hey Elrond May 07 22:28:51 hmmm, it accepts any password i give when logging in as root over ssh May 07 22:28:59 should it accept e.g only empty passwords? May 07 22:29:14 *shouldn't May 07 22:29:21 * CoreDump|home was kinda wondering about that as well May 07 22:37:26 hello dear OM developers, SVN is hosed ATM with u-boot failing with " chmod: cannot access `board/neo1973/split_by_variant.sh': No such file or directory" May 07 22:44:40 CoreDump|home - file a bug. :) May 07 22:44:53 CoreDump|home - And be sure, that it is not a local problem. :) May 07 22:45:01 It know it's not May 07 22:45:09 it's a known-good build-env ;) May 07 22:45:22 Then file a bug. May 07 22:46:08 last time I filed a (trivial-to-fix) bug report with added patch, it took the OM folks like 10days to reply =) I guess someone will notice the problem sooner than that May 07 22:46:40 CoreDump|home: the bug is already rported ;) May 07 22:46:49 CoreDump|home: http://ewi546.ewi.utwente.nl/tinderbox/showbuilds.pl?tree=OpenMoko May 07 22:47:00 CoreDump|home: #549 May 07 22:47:03 !ombug 549 May 07 22:47:04 * * Bug 549, Status: NEW, Created: Unknown May 07 22:47:06 * * autobuild-reports(AT)openmoko.org: uboot-gta01-1.2.0+svnnow-r5_ac4cd59d59c9bf3f89cb7a344abf8184d678f562_0_1920-do_compile May 07 22:47:07 * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=549 May 07 22:47:13 zecke: ahh heh May 07 22:47:52 CoreDump|home: and poor's mickey boy's mailbox gets flooded May 07 22:47:58 * mickeyl nods May 07 22:48:18 does openmoko have nightly builds? May 07 22:48:19 mickeyl: use your admin power to change the default assignee May 07 22:48:32 hmm admin power... me? ;) May 07 22:48:40 *giggle* May 07 22:48:47 Moo^^: nightly? hourly... May 07 22:48:48 mickeyl: write a mail May 07 22:49:00 Moo^^: we have one build at midnight May 07 22:49:05 Moo^^: and one after each commit May 07 22:49:34 Moo^^: every 20 incremental builds the tree is thrown away and recompiled from scratch May 07 22:49:48 neat May 07 22:50:01 ~praise zecke for QA May 07 22:50:16 All hail zecke for QA! May 07 22:50:42 Q! May 07 22:51:07 mickeyl: well you turned my real plot down and forced me to hack webkit May 07 22:51:15 heh May 07 22:51:17 sorry bout that May 07 22:51:20 but it's important May 07 22:51:24 and you get money for it :) May 07 22:51:37 if you can live up to the expectations May 07 22:51:38 I'm such a whore May 07 22:51:41 :D May 07 22:51:47 aren't we all? May 07 22:52:07 * mickeyl shows sign "will sing for food" May 07 22:52:08 we are, probably we get treated the way we treat others *sigh* May 07 22:52:22 hehe May 07 22:52:36 openmoko: 03wansti * r1923 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/artwork/sounds/ (30 files): added first set of recorded sounds in uncompressed WAV, MP3 (LAME) and Ogg Vorbis formats May 07 22:52:38 poor white-collars muhaha May 07 22:52:55 ah, wansti adds ring tones May 07 22:52:59 guess i should sort out audio now May 07 22:53:15 now = tomorrow May 07 22:53:37 any news on the gsm / dialer front? May 07 22:53:57 * Elrond is going to investigate the "bed front" ;o) May 07 22:54:22 well, forget GSM, what about GPS? =D May 07 22:54:22 i need to review the current state, dunno whether Thomas uses my gobject code yet May 07 22:54:27 Elrond: n8! May 07 22:54:35 * zecke ran out of water and mate May 07 22:54:38 CoreDump|home: dialer development is somewhat slowed due to the fact i broke our device, that should be fixed soon though. May 07 22:54:41 * mickeyl prefers not to be reminded about gps May 07 22:55:09 robster: ah I see May 07 22:55:56 mickeyl: blasted regulations. Why can't the damn h/w vendors integrate them into the hardware itself, allowing opensource drivers May 07 22:56:17 it's all about their IP May 07 22:56:56 as I understand it, even if they wanted, they couldn't possibly release a full OSS driver due to regulations in "some" countries May 07 22:57:25 my belief is that the regulations are an excuse May 07 22:57:45 it should be possible to release an open source wrapper to their binary only algorithms May 07 22:57:50 since long May 07 22:57:50 by the sound if it, we will have a reverse-engineered driver in a matter of weeks after they hand out the binary blob =) May 07 22:58:09 CoreDump|home: psst May 07 22:58:16 mickeyl: i tried to you yours MokoWindow notification is-topmost...it works well but i have no idea how it works May 07 22:58:24 zecke: the manufacturer is not stupid... May 07 22:58:25 Magon: hehe May 07 22:58:39 I was studing it for 30 minutes and nothing May 07 22:58:40 Magon: i can explain that, but the implementation will be kicked out anyway May 07 22:58:44 substituted w/ some simpler way May 07 22:58:57 Magon: sorry for the delay in answering btw., I'll come to your mail tomorrow May 07 22:59:01 but functionality will remain? May 07 22:59:09 yes, 100% May 07 22:59:17 just the inner implementation will switch May 07 22:59:32 mickeyl: i think i have already answer...or i just deceided and continued coding May 07 22:59:40 ok May 07 22:59:44 i really on it May 07 23:00:10 great May 07 23:00:15 btw: just now i am implementing per application structures, it is going to be functional soon probably May 07 23:00:29 cool. that'll be quite an optimization May 07 23:00:35 and i have free day tomorrow May 07 23:00:56 the bigest problem are buttons on toolbox May 07 23:01:22 i have to keep each one for each application probably May 07 23:01:37 or reload pixmaps from files May 07 23:02:22 Magon: did you see my email? May 07 23:02:26 Magon: with the code? May 07 23:02:46 i'm going to rest a couple of hours May 07 23:02:46 g'night guys May 07 23:02:59 mickeyl: ciao. May 07 23:03:14 n8 mickey|zzZZzz May 07 23:03:23 robster: sorry for not answering you May 07 23:03:35 i just took the code and implemented :-) May 07 23:03:42 fake keyboard is working well May 07 23:03:54 Magon: cool. May 07 23:04:27 but deciding when to show is based on dbus communication May 07 23:04:34 Magon: if you can include a credit to "Rob Bradford " where appropriate that will keep me and my boss happy. May 07 23:04:45 robster: not a problem May 07 23:05:06 there will be more credits everywhere :-) May 07 23:05:54 and i dont have the credit and licence part done yet :-( May 07 23:06:24 robster: do you want just simple credit or some thanking talk ? ;-) May 07 23:09:13 robster: and thanks a lot for the code..it is really simple and it would take me long to think of that May 07 23:09:19 openmoko: 03andrew * r1924 10/trunk/src/host/qemu-neo1973/ (hw/s3c24xx_udc.c usb-linux-gadget.c): May 07 23:09:19 openmoko: Add high-speed USB slaves support and account for all the quirks related to this. May 07 23:09:19 openmoko: Misc bugfixes and added verbosity. May 07 23:44:13 damn May 07 23:44:20 I missed mickeyl :-( May 07 23:48:50 yep May 08 01:41:28 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Buying_Interest_List]] [[OpenMoko_under_QEMU]] May 08 01:44:51 About how much will the discount f or Phase 1+ devices be, if you purchased a Phase1 device? May 08 01:45:30 Unknown yet I believe. May 08 01:45:40 alright May 08 01:47:32 I'm just trying to decide if I want a Phase1 or wait for a Phase1+ phone (with WiFi and such) May 08 01:49:05 I'm in the same boat. May 08 01:49:34 I have a lot of great ideas for OpenMoko, and I'm really excited about developing for it May 08 01:49:50 I think on the Neo1973 page on the wiki it says that the discount will be announced when Phase1 is available. **** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue May 08 02:59:57 2007