**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu May 10 02:59:56 2007
May 10 03:16:41 <CIA-24> openmoko: 03laforge * r1942 10/trunk/src/target/u-boot/patches/uboot-dfu.patch: * increase static buffer size for nand writing to 128kByte (from 16kByte) to be as large as the erasesize of 2k flash
May 10 03:45:19 <aloril> (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[OpenMoko]] [[Buying_Interest_List]]
May 10 03:52:10 <marksworld> hello
May 10 03:53:02 <aloril> hi marksworld 
May 10 04:00:47 <marksworld> how are you
May 10 04:01:43 <aloril> waiting for news (production should have start(ed) already/soon)
May 10 04:22:39 <marksworld> what do you mean waiting for news aloril?
May 10 04:23:31 <aloril> pre-order or some other info or .. I guess they are too busy to do anything like that :-(
May 10 04:24:07 <aloril> anyway, today is day for first production run for P1 phones
May 10 04:24:22 <aloril> (or at least should be)
May 10 04:25:02 <stuhood> counter
May 10 04:25:02 <aloril> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 : >= 2007-05-10 (uncertainty is a optimistic guess) P1: 4 days 19:34:55 (4.816 +-3.5 days) (1132;198)
May 10 04:32:16 <aloril> production: 1 day, testing: ? days, umm.. what else is left before you can order?
May 10 04:32:38 <Mukunda> What text editor is available on the openmoko?
May 10 04:33:42 <Mukunda> Errr sorry, with openmoko.
May 10 04:33:52 * Mukunda must remember openmoko != Neo1973
May 10 04:34:04 <aloril> openmoko is based on OE: http://www.openembedded.org/filebrowser/org.openembedded.dev/packages
May 10 04:34:37 <aloril> or are you asking what is included by default?
May 10 04:35:45 <Mukunda> Yeah, I was, but that should answer my question.
May 10 04:35:58 <Mukunda> Great, Emacs is available.
May 10 04:38:19 <marksworld> hmm
May 10 04:38:39 <marksworld> so who decideds when openmoko comes up?
May 10 04:39:12 <marksworld> when they release the neo
May 10 04:41:37 <Mukunda> Should be a few more hours till the neo is available for purchase right?
May 10 04:41:55 <Psi> huh? hours, where did you get that?
May 10 04:43:11 <marksworld> lol
May 10 04:43:16 <marksworld> ya
May 10 04:43:17 <marksworld> please tell
May 10 04:43:51 <aloril> marksworld: well.. when they are ready ;-)
May 10 04:44:09 <marksworld> ya I know
May 10 04:46:01 <marksworld> why did mukunda say that it will be available for purchase?
May 10 04:46:15 <marksworld> in few hours
May 10 04:47:33 <aloril> well.. in *theory* pre-order page could come up any time ;-)
May 10 04:48:20 <hads> hours/days/weeks - it'll be good when it does and I'm sure they'll do it as soon as they can.
May 10 04:50:10 <aloril> they said they will have details about P1+  (wifi, excepted day?, discount for P1 buyers) when P1 is available for (pre-)order
May 10 04:50:53 * aloril thinks they are at the moment mostly busy with actual production
May 10 04:51:25 * hads agrees
May 10 04:51:58 <aloril> they were so busy that they even forgot to tell free P1 recipients that they have shipped phones ;-)
May 10 04:54:18 <aloril> it could be even that next announce mail will be "available for ordering (and will be shipped immediately in order order) ;-)
May 10 05:01:23 * aloril guess: announcement is more likely tomorrow than today
May 10 05:11:15 <aloril> in any case I would except some beep before 2007-05-20 (second production run)
May 10 05:13:10 <Mukunda> Any news on the discount that will be given for P1/P2 buyers?
May 10 05:14:05 <aloril> Mukunda: I would except that news to be in same news as (pre-)order news
May 10 05:15:10 <aloril> tomorrow or some time next week (or later)
May 10 05:15:42 <Mukunda> Hm okay. :-)
May 10 05:23:31 <Mandarino> counter
May 10 05:23:32 <aloril> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 : >= 2007-05-10 (uncertainty is a optimistic guess) P1: 4 days 18:36:26 (4.775 +-3.5 days) (1133;198)
May 10 05:46:19 <aloril> (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Buying_Interest_List]]
May 10 06:18:09 <mrcucumber> I'd like to create an openmoko port of RoadNav (http://roadnav.sourceforge.net/) how do I go about trying to compile it?
May 10 06:18:23 <mrcucumber> I have used the openmoko makefile
May 10 07:03:28 <CIA-24> openmoko: 03mickey * r1943 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/openmoko-libs/libmokoui/libmokoui.pro: openmoko-libs/libmokoui.pro: catch up with recent file additions
May 10 07:25:35 <Hopscotch> good morning
May 10 07:26:19 <aloril> (script) openmoko-community: "Michael 'Mickey' Lauer" <mickey at openmoko.org> Re: Other Devices
May 10 07:27:46 * aloril nods to above mail
May 10 07:28:37 <TRIsoft> morning
May 10 07:29:22 <hrw> hi Mac
May 10 07:30:18 <kelvinn> morn'
May 10 07:30:38 <TRIsoft> kelvinn: 'ing :D
May 10 07:34:58 <kelvinn> TRIsoft, nice:)
May 10 07:47:19 <aloril> (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Buying_Interest_List]]
May 10 08:22:19 <aloril> (script) openmoko-community: "Michael 'Mickey' Lauer" <mickey at openmoko.org> Re: Other Devices
May 10 08:24:50 <serzholino> counter?
May 10 08:24:51 <aloril> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 : >= 2007-05-10 (uncertainty is a optimistic guess) source: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/MokoMakefile ; P0: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Wishlist:Neo1973_P0_Review; 4 days 15:35:07 (4.649 +-3.5 days) for devices for *ANYBODY* for $350 (targeting developers) (preorders: not yet) (2007-05-13);  4 months, 6 days (129.149 +-15.0 days) for mass market (2007-09-15): see topic for more info (1134;198)
May 10 08:25:17 <aloril> you get shorter version without '?'
May 10 08:25:30 <mickeyl> morning guys
May 10 08:25:43 <serzholino> ok
May 10 08:26:34 <aloril> morning
May 10 08:30:37 <hrw> my neo bv4 moved finally from warsaw
May 10 08:31:42 <Hopscotch> no tax here by the way
May 10 08:31:45 <Hopscotch> even vat
May 10 08:34:33 <TRIsoft> hi mickey
May 10 08:34:39 <mickeyl> cheers TRIsoft
May 10 08:34:41 <mickeyl> how are things?
May 10 08:34:56 <mickeyl> i'm actually surprised that Sharp still devliers
May 10 08:34:59 <mickeyl> delivers, even
May 10 08:35:01 <TRIsoft> pretty busy, but no FIC related news :-(
May 10 08:35:22 <TRIsoft> Yep. The Zaurus-end looks like strange humor
May 10 08:35:41 <mickeyl> ya, japanese humour
May 10 08:35:47 * mickeyl shakes head
May 10 08:36:16 <mickeyl> Lets cross fingers for this production run in china and then we can finally ship some phones soon
May 10 08:36:21 <mickeyl> *sigh*
May 10 08:36:36 <TRIsoft> ack
May 10 08:43:04 <CM> The buying intrest list is up at 265 ppl fpr P1 and still growing :)
May 10 08:44:13 <aloril> interesting to see what actual Buy/interest ratio is, I suspect its greater than 10x
May 10 08:44:40 <florian> good morning
May 10 08:44:50 <CM> Yes, lots of people who just pop in here an ask "Can I buy it now?"
May 10 08:45:16 <CM> And there's quite a few subscribers to the mailinglists I think
May 10 08:45:30 <aloril> > 3000 for announce mailing list I think
May 10 08:47:43 <CM> Yes, I remember LaF0rge saying something like that
May 10 08:48:06 <Stephmw> mornin
May 10 08:48:29 <aloril> CM: same source for my recall ;-)
May 10 08:48:53 <CM> Should set up a working dev environment.. Get qemu working a such.
May 10 08:49:04 * guillaum1 is going to add himself to the list
May 10 08:49:30 <CM> But I'm in the process of moving and rebuilding a whole apartment sucks insane amounts of time.. :-/
May 10 09:07:17 <mickeyl> heh
May 10 09:07:20 <mickeyl> welcome on board, CM
May 10 09:07:21 * mickeyl is moving atm.
May 10 09:07:34 <mickeyl> i hardly have time concentrating on anything
May 10 09:07:37 <mickeyl> but it'll be soon over
May 10 09:15:36 <Gasolin__> hi, is it possible to compile openmoko under mac osx?
May 10 09:15:37 <aloril> Gasolin__: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.)
May 10 09:16:26 <balrog-kun> should be possible
May 10 09:16:38 * balrog-kun is off
May 10 09:25:26 <lrak> same thought
May 10 09:26:13 <lrak> for the ratio
May 10 09:27:04 <CM> mickeyl: I'm rebuilding at the same time, taken out a wall, a floor, built a door shut, repaining all ceilings and walls, changign tiles in the kitchen, new desks and new floor in 2 rooms. 5h sleep per night is not working in the long run.. :P
May 10 09:27:16 <mickeyl> uah
May 10 09:27:17 <mickeyl> that's tough
May 10 09:27:31 <yacc> CM: Well, at least you are not moving at the same time, aren't you?
May 10 09:27:55 <CM> yacc: True, I have the old apartment to the end of May
May 10 09:27:56 <yacc> Although we have only removed walls :)
May 10 09:28:02 <yacc> CM: you too?
May 10 09:28:21 <yacc> CM: our old apartment is rented till End of May too.
May 10 09:28:29 <CM> Yes, and the wall was hell to cut down. Some fluffy concrete full of iron bars..
May 10 09:28:56 <yacc> CM: Yes, pulling  walls is way less funny than it sounds in theory.
May 10 09:29:16 * CM isn't too sad personally that the Neo has slipped schedule a bit..
May 10 09:29:20 <CM> ;)
May 10 09:29:22 <zecke> mickeyl: hey :)
May 10 09:29:45 <yacc> CM: I especially resent the fact that my wife had the cool idea "you have to do it yourself, then you'll value it, and you'll have an attachment to the apartment", ...
May 10 09:30:29 <CM> yacc: Hehe.. I do it myself because it's the cheapest and I know how to get it like I want to.
May 10 09:31:21 <yacc> CM: yeah, but my wife will complain in about a month that our income took a sudden dive, ...
May 10 09:31:38 <CM> Guess it's the same with everything, house, car, code.. If you want exactly the way you want, you have to do it yourself
May 10 09:32:14 * CM is working 40+h/week regular work.
May 10 09:32:47 <yacc> CM: welcome to the club, although you seem to have missed the 20+h/week needed for being a good husband/daddy ;)
May 10 09:33:27 <CM> yacc: Heh, I have a gf in another town, so yes I don't have anything else stealing my time right now
May 10 09:36:36 <yacc> CM: :)
May 10 09:36:55 <SpeedEvil> I assume you can simply - with usbnet - start openmoko apps on any x server?
May 10 09:38:04 <CM> SpeedEvil: I'd guess so too. If everything goes well with the production today we can soon try ;)
May 10 09:39:01 <aloril> should be possible already with qemu
May 10 09:39:38 <CM> I can't even get qemu to compile.. Should get a debian vmware image or something to play with
May 10 09:40:13 <SpeedEvil> aloril: I was more meaning the real phone.
May 10 09:40:36 <SpeedEvil> plug it in to charge, next to your computer, and the UI of the phone pops up on your desktop when something happens.
May 10 09:40:45 <SpeedEvil> For example.
May 10 09:41:10 <webjames> SpeedEvil, that sounds cool
May 10 09:41:10 <aloril> SpeedEvil: I meant same method from computer/software viewpoint: usbnet
May 10 09:41:38 <SpeedEvil> aloril: True - but it's largely useless with qemu.
May 10 09:42:05 <SpeedEvil> It's just perhaps a shortcut to a 'proper' phone remote control app.
May 10 09:42:09 <aloril> SpeedEvil: true, but you can test it now ;-)
May 10 09:42:13 <SpeedEvil> As well as a useful addition.
May 10 09:42:28 <SpeedEvil> I've not got it up yet. Really should.
May 10 09:45:52 <aloril> using Mokomakefile and "make setup" "make qemu" less than 800MB of disk space is needed
May 10 09:46:06 <webjames> 550 ish
May 10 09:46:19 <aloril> (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Wish_List_-_Hardware]] [[Buying_Interest_List]]
May 10 09:46:56 <aloril> also doesn't take long to compile either and is pretty automatic too
May 10 09:48:45 <webjames> it's weird when i build it with qemu, i don't get a keyboard icon, nor background
May 10 09:49:27 <SpeedEvil> aloril: I need to upgrade my server first.
May 10 09:49:48 <SpeedEvil> It's some 4 years old.
May 10 09:49:53 <SpeedEvil> (the software)
May 10 09:52:40 <webjames> what's the news on the dedicated Graphics Acceleration in phase 1+?
May 10 09:53:14 <mickeyl> negotiations looking good
May 10 09:53:20 <mickeyl> can't disclose vendor nor chip yet
May 10 09:53:47 <webjames> Sean says: "Graphics acceleration is much later." but it's good news about negotiations
May 10 09:54:38 <mjr> oh, I thought gpu wasn't coming to p1+ in any case
May 10 09:54:58 <mjr> won't complain if there's something in it, 'course :]
May 10 09:56:03 <mickeyl> :D
May 10 09:56:29 <mickeyl> can't say for sure (I'm just a technician), but we had some good news from our negotiation "department" today
May 10 09:56:39 * mickeyl looks to LaF0rge who's currently in .tw
May 10 09:56:50 <mjr> as long as, y'know, it won't come with a binary X driver ;P
May 10 09:56:58 <mickeyl> ieks
May 10 09:57:12 <webjames> mickeyl, good news is great news!
May 10 09:58:02 <webjames> mjr, that's good news also
May 10 09:58:08 <mickeyl> a binary X driver wuold be betraying all our principles
May 10 09:58:50 <webjames> mickeyl, and we wouldn't want that. this project is getting quite exciting, i wonder where it'll be in 1 years time?!
May 10 09:59:11 <mickeyl> an excellent question, i'm wondering that myself
May 10 09:59:15 <mickeyl> i can see two options
May 10 09:59:26 <mjr> mickeyl, yesyes, I'm not actually worried you'd go the wrong way with that
May 10 09:59:30 <mjr> hence the tongue
May 10 09:59:43 <mickeyl> either it fades into non-existance because of * stopped funding, * too many bugs, * whatever
May 10 09:59:47 <mickeyl> or it gets really really hot
May 10 09:59:48 <mickeyl> :)
May 10 10:00:04 <webjames> mickeyl, i'm going for hothothot
May 10 10:00:49 <webjames> mickeyl, i think it's important that it's compatible with other hardware, but that will come i'm sure
May 10 10:01:20 <mickeyl> htc comes along nicely and ezx as well
May 10 10:01:31 <mickeyl> or do you mean newly produced hw?
May 10 10:02:09 <webjames> either really
May 10 10:02:31 <mickeyl> both would be best, of cours
May 10 10:02:31 <mickeyl> e
May 10 10:02:40 <mjr> I much prefer hardware spesifically made to run with Openmoko
May 10 10:02:50 <aloril2> mickeyl: any idea when (pre-)order page might go up? (once production and testing looks OK?)
May 10 10:02:51 <webjames> ezx is motorola right?
May 10 10:02:52 <mjr> but sure, ports are nice
May 10 10:03:03 <mickeyl> webjames: ya
May 10 10:03:25 <mickeyl> aloril2: no idea, really. i'm a bit out of the production loop atm.
May 10 10:03:28 <mickeyl> since concentrating on hw
May 10 10:03:31 <mickeyl> s/hw/sw
May 10 10:04:16 <webjames> any more info on the P1+ info that's going to be released?
May 10 10:04:20 <aloril2> just to verify: production means complete units with screens?
May 10 10:04:39 <aloril2> (today production that is)
May 10 10:06:10 <mickeyl> yes, my understanding is production is complete units
May 10 10:06:44 <aloril2> great, there is good hope that we get them soon then
May 10 10:06:52 <mickeyl> i expect more p1+ news when p1 actually goes on sale
May 10 10:07:12 <webjames> cool
May 10 10:18:36 <zecke> mickeyl: when is the big usability review?
May 10 10:19:55 <mickeyl> hmm
May 10 10:20:08 <mickeyl> July
May 10 10:20:14 <zecke> mickeyl: there are at least four different and two different positions to exit an application
May 10 10:20:14 <mickeyl> (guessing)
May 10 10:46:38 <sannes> counter
May 10 10:46:38 <aloril> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 : >= 2007-05-10 (uncertainty is a optimistic guess) P1: 4 days 13:13:19 (4.551 +-3.5 days) (1135;198)
May 10 10:55:30 <Rakshasa> if (minimum <= uncertainty + 0.5) minimum += 14.0;
May 10 11:13:52 <aloril> Rakshasa: hehe
May 10 11:19:07 <sparq> Will the Phase 1 phones avalable this May be the same hardware as the mass market devices? I'm not completely sure how to interpret the timeline on the Wiki.
May 10 11:19:08 <aloril> sparq: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.)
May 10 11:19:49 <aloril> sparq: mass market is probably same as P1+ (P1.5) != P1
May 10 11:19:50 <sparq> Drat. I have been n00b-dunked.
May 10 11:20:24 <sparq> aloril: So, basically the Phase 0 hardware, modula bug fixes?
May 10 11:20:42 <aloril> yes
May 10 11:21:13 <aloril> we should get more info about P1+ when P1 becomes available for ordering
May 10 11:22:22 <mickeyl> actually
May 10 11:22:35 <mjr> sparq, some enhancements are likely; a faster cpu has been pretty much promised for mass market
May 10 11:22:58 <mjr> (faster than p1)
May 10 11:22:59 <mickeyl> P1.5 doesn't exist as a seperate -- it's just meaning that we improve the hardware somewhere between p1 and p2
May 10 11:23:07 <sparq> Neat. I am completely happy buying a phone with unfinished software. I'm just agonizing over the choice between having one now and the old "new hardware better" delema.
May 10 11:23:41 <mjr> mickeyl, yeah, it's pretty much shorthand for "the p2 hardware but maybe released before p2 software is done and before mass-market release"
May 10 11:23:47 <mickeyl> righto
May 10 11:23:56 <sparq> That is what I figured.
May 10 11:24:02 * aloril refered to P1 with "yes" to "So, basically the Phase 0 hardware, modula bug fixes?"
May 10 11:24:16 <mickeyl> bbiab, need to supervise the furniture forwarding agency
May 10 11:24:22 <mjr> aloril, right, misunderstood
May 10 11:25:08 <sparq> aloril, mjr : do either of you have an actual device?
May 10 11:25:18 <mjr> I don't, he does, I think
May 10 11:25:20 <aloril> not yet
May 10 11:25:24 <mjr> oh
May 10 11:26:12 <mjr> well anyway, just waiting for them to start selling
May 10 11:27:04 <sparq> How exactly is one supposed to buy one? I assume the .com address will open some kind of web store or something...
May 10 11:27:30 <mjr> or something
May 10 11:27:38 <lrak> time for us to get a phone .. the soft will be complete .. sad .. very sad
May 10 11:27:40 <mjr> (indeed it'll be sold on-line)
May 10 11:29:01 <sparq> Ever since I heard of this project back in November, I've been *itching* to get my hands on one to play around with for a few minutes.
May 10 11:29:22 <aloril> added to [[Neo1973]]: **Same hardware as Phase 1+, software is updated.
May 10 11:29:22 <XorA> sparq: what part of world are you in?
May 10 11:29:29 <sparq> XorA: Los Angeles
May 10 11:29:38 <XorA> sparq: too far for me then :-D
May 10 11:29:52 <sparq> XorA: And yourself?
May 10 11:29:55 <aloril> maybe should strike over "June" in "Phase 1+" but... well I guess in few days we know more ;-)
May 10 11:29:59 <XorA> sparq: Scotland
May 10 11:30:22 <sparq> XorA: Damn me and my antisocial hours
May 10 11:30:23 * buz will miss the 5 way wheel on his p900 :(
May 10 11:30:29 <buz> that thing is simply ingenious
May 10 11:32:53 <sparq> buz: I have been clinging to an Erricson t39m for almost five years now, and the Neo is the first thing that has tempted me to retire it.
May 10 11:33:15 <buz> i would buy a HTC TyTN in a heartbeat if it wasnt running winmobile
May 10 11:33:31 <sparq> T-Mobile keeps harrassing me to replace it. I have been telling them to sod off for two years now.
May 10 11:33:58 <XorA> sparq: in UK the replacement would have been free so I would have taken it and sold it on ebay
May 10 11:34:43 <sparq> XorA: Same here, but they make you sign something that says you won't do that.
May 10 11:35:10 <XorA> sparq: must be slightly different in the uk, it always seems to say you own the phone
May 10 11:36:35 <Stephmw> iirc you don't own the phone until 12 months have passed to pay off the subsidy for 'free'
May 10 11:36:38 <sparq> XorA: Same here, but with conditions. They sell you the phone at a subsidized price, but then the deal is that actual ownership transfers to you after N months.
May 10 11:37:13 <sparq> XorA: where N is some number proportional to the amount of the subsidy.
May 10 11:37:49 <XorA> sparq: fair enough, probably slight differences everywhere due to creit laws
May 10 11:37:57 <XorA> credit
May 10 11:38:07 * sparq shrugs
May 10 11:39:01 <sparq> XorA: I like the way mobile operators in the UK work, but I don't care for the rates. ^_^
May 10 11:39:39 <sparq> XorA: While I was at Oxford last summer, it cost less for me to call Los Angeles than someone else in Oxford.
May 10 11:39:49 <XorA> sparq: yeah that bit ucks
May 10 11:40:22 <sparq> 7p -> UK numbers, 9p -> UK mobile numbers, and 3p -> anywhere in the US
May 10 11:41:19 <sparq> So I just bounced my calls off of my VoIP terminal at home, since calls from there to the UK are only $0.03 a minute.
May 10 11:42:50 <sparq> XorA: Hey, does Mobile Warehouse still have its "We don't sell plans to anyone over 70" policy?
May 10 11:44:28 <sparq> That was one of the more jaw-dropping bits of culture shock for me. If anyone tried that in Los Angeles, the AARP would rally octigenarians to beat the perpetrators with walkers.
May 10 11:47:19 <aloril> (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[User:Dbkubla]] [[Neo1973]] [[Minimo]] [[Wish_List_-_Hardware]] [[User:WebJames]]
May 10 11:48:53 <sparq> Does anyone know where the Neo will be manufactured? (i.e., company, city)
May 10 11:49:39 <Rince> FIC
May 10 11:50:42 <sparq> Rince: Hmm... I would have figured that FIC would subcontract
May 10 11:50:47 <Rince> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973
May 10 11:51:26 <buz> if anything, someone else would subcontract to FIC ;)
May 10 11:52:00 <buz> the whole point of the project is to produce their own devices and sell them at market prices instead at production cost
May 10 11:52:09 <Rince> *nod*
May 10 11:53:53 <CIA-24> openmoko: 03thomas * r1944 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/applications/openmoko-dialer/src/ (dialer-main.h dialer-window-outgoing.c): openmoko-dialer: implement dialing, redialing, call success, call failure
May 10 11:54:10 <buz> so we can now use it as phone ;)
May 10 11:54:58 * sparq shrugs
May 10 11:56:16 <sparq> Ah well. I have class in four hours. I suppose I should attempt to sleep.
May 10 11:58:13 <XorA> sparq: that was one paper and one idiot sales assistant blowing a stupid mistake out of all proportion
May 10 12:21:29 * arw hello to all :)
May 10 12:33:44 * buz wonders if we will hear anything today
May 10 12:35:25 <hrw> I wonder will UPS give me phone today or not
May 10 12:35:40 <SpeedEvil> np: Blondie - Hanging on the telephone.
May 10 12:35:42 <Stephmw> buz: if you listen reall, REALLY hard, you can hear me sigh loudly at how shitty VC++ is
May 10 12:36:07 <buz> i always thought it was one of the better ms products
May 10 12:36:10 <buz> but thats not saying much
May 10 12:36:11 <LuitvD> counter
May 10 12:36:11 <aloril> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 : >= 2007-05-10 (uncertainty is a optimistic guess) P1: 4 days 11:23:46 (4.475 +-3.5 days) (1136;198)
May 10 12:36:19 <Stephmw> yeah, everything's relative
May 10 12:36:32 <LuitvD> is the first production run going already? or is it delayed?
May 10 12:36:34 <Stephmw> personally, the only good MS products I've used are the mice
May 10 12:36:49 <buz> mhh excel is the best spreadsheet in my view, but that again doesnt say much
May 10 12:37:02 <Elrond> Hi people!
May 10 12:37:16 <LuitvD> hellow
May 10 12:37:33 <buz> say, LuitvD, did you buy any phone yet?
May 10 12:37:49 <LuitvD> buz: nah, not just yet
May 10 12:37:50 <SpeedEvil> The mice were excellent.
May 10 12:37:56 * hrw likes MS keyboard (ergonomic ones)
May 10 12:37:57 <SpeedEvil> I hated the natural keyboard.
May 10 12:38:01 <buz> so you didnt hear from e28 either
May 10 12:38:17 * buz uses 8EUR logitech optical mice
May 10 12:38:29 <LuitvD> buz: didn't hear from e28, and am actually waiting for the ROKR E6 to come available in the netherlands
May 10 12:38:36 <guaqua> i only buy logitech mice and keyboards
May 10 12:38:46 <buz> cherry keyboards are quite good
May 10 12:39:00 * LuitvD uses a wired gamers desktop set by A4Tech :)
May 10 12:39:38 <LuitvD> (a very pleasant mouse, and a great keyboard
May 10 12:39:48 <buz> mhh those are quite cheap no?
May 10 12:39:50 <aloril> LuitvD: haven't heard about any problems, so hopefully all has been gone (is going) well
May 10 12:39:56 <buz> i always figured cheap keyboards are useless
May 10 12:40:35 <buz> mhh do you happen to know the exact model number?
May 10 12:41:01 <LuitvD> aloril: so finally the P1 release is in view? :P
May 10 12:41:11 <buz> supposedly they are making neos today
May 10 12:41:14 <aloril> hopefully
May 10 12:41:28 * aloril is optimistic
May 10 12:41:41 <Elrond> I use old IBM Model M as keyboard. ;)
May 10 12:41:55 <Elrond> (From IBM RS/6000s ;) )
May 10 12:42:25 <buz> those generally dont come as usb keyboards ;)
May 10 12:42:34 <buz> and i refuse to deal with ps2
May 10 12:42:44 <buz> or even worse, AT
May 10 12:43:01 <aloril> "We've been so busy trying to get production moved from Taiwan to China, and shipping you new NEOs(GTA01B_v4), that we well...forgot to _tell_ you that we're shipping you new phones  ;-) "
May 10 12:43:08 <aloril> from http://dominion.kabel.utwente.nl/koen/cms/another-neo-on-the-way
May 10 12:43:37 <aloril> (those are P1 made earlier, not from today run)
May 10 12:44:05 <Elrond> Ahh.
May 10 12:44:07 <buz> i want info about p2 hardware ;)
May 10 12:44:11 <buz> more than anything else really
May 10 12:44:23 <aloril> p2==p1+ (P1.5)
May 10 12:44:25 <Elrond> buz - Well a) USB-PS2-converters exist.  b) all my boxes still have PS2.
May 10 12:44:40 <aloril> hardware, software is different ;-)
May 10 12:44:45 <buz> aloril2: well yes ;), then substitute 1.5 for 2 :) 
May 10 12:44:59 <buz> Elrond: more often than not, those converters didnt work for me
May 10 12:45:13 <buz> plus ps2 is generally not hotplug
May 10 12:45:19 <buz> which is especially painful on servers
May 10 12:45:29 <aloril> v2 info would be interesting too ;-)
May 10 12:45:41 <guaqua> ps2 is totally hotplug :)
May 10 12:45:46 <guaqua> never had any problems ;)
May 10 12:45:47 <Elrond> buz - Well, for servers I don't care too much about keyboard. :)
May 10 12:45:52 <buz> El
May 10 12:46:02 <hrw> if everything will go OK then gta02 (p1.5-p2 device) will be interesting
May 10 12:46:04 <buz> Elrond: well if they are down at times you need one
May 10 12:46:16 <Elrond> guaqua - It's "reload the kernel driver" on IBM RS/6000. ;o)
May 10 12:46:18 <buz> i dont think i want to wait for v2
May 10 12:46:45 <buz> Elrond: i havent yet seen a rs/6000 that would fit my backpack
May 10 12:46:58 <buz> and not my budget, either
May 10 12:47:24 <Elrond> buz - Yeah, but for fixing a server a $3-usb-keyboard is fully acceptable.
May 10 12:47:40 <buz> around here only ps2 is that cheap
May 10 12:47:45 <Elrond> Well, I used to have a rs6000 under my desk for a while. ;o)
May 10 12:48:15 <buz> thinking of it, ps2 keyboards are essentially free, you can usually take some crappy ones from someone who bought a new pc
May 10 12:48:30 <Elrond> Right.
May 10 12:48:34 <buz> i wonder if the thinkpad keyboard is available as external keyboard
May 10 12:48:45 <buz> that's gotta be the first notebook keyboard i can actually type on
May 10 12:48:58 <LuitvD> notebook keyboards rock :P
May 10 12:49:06 <Elrond> I switched away from rs6000 when I was tired enough of "AIX on the desk". ;o)
May 10 12:49:11 <buz> not in general, they dont
May 10 12:49:27 <LuitvD> not?
May 10 12:49:34 <buz> most certainly, HP, Acer and Dell suck very badly
May 10 12:49:37 <hrw> buz: it is
May 10 12:49:37 <buz> toshiba is soso
May 10 12:49:46 <Elrond> LuitvD - I haven'T seen any keyboard bet Model M ;o)
May 10 12:49:48 <LuitvD> of all the laptop keyboards I've used, I never disliked one
May 10 12:49:57 <buz> hrw: as flat keyboard or as normal pc105
May 10 12:50:11 <hrw> buz: like taken right from thinkpad
May 10 12:50:13 <Elrond> s/bet/beat
May 10 12:50:14 <buz> you must clearly have weird criteria to evaulate them
May 10 12:50:17 <buz> hrw: woah neat
May 10 12:50:19 <buz> must go look for that
May 10 12:50:47 <buz> or maybe i get a mechanical cherry one, that comes closest to model m
May 10 12:50:57 <LuitvD> buz: my dad's HP Pavilion keyboard is great... 
May 10 12:51:07 <buz> clearly you have another definition of great ;)
May 10 12:51:14 <LuitvD> lol
May 10 12:51:31 <LuitvD> I just like mild key-resistance
May 10 12:51:36 <buz> i hate it
May 10 12:51:41 <Elrond> The worst I've seen in germany are "Siemens Nixdorf" ones. ;o)
May 10 12:51:41 <LuitvD> I love it
May 10 12:51:46 <buz> the thinkpad is about as mild as i can still type on
May 10 12:51:54 <guaqua> Elrond: those are pure horror
May 10 12:52:03 <buz> the ones with the round keys?
May 10 12:52:10 <guaqua> yes
May 10 12:52:10 <Elrond> buz - Yep.
May 10 12:52:13 <buz> oh sun keyboards are pretty bad too
May 10 12:52:22 <guaqua> with no idea if you pressed the key or not
May 10 12:52:29 <Elrond> Oh, right. They come close to the Nixdorf ones. ;)
May 10 12:52:32 <buz> they cant even stick to a common layout
May 10 12:52:57 <buz> then again you dont really need to hook up a keyboard to a sun anyway
May 10 12:53:16 <Elrond> There's exactly one good thing about sun keyboards. <Stop-A> ;o)
May 10 12:53:52 <SpeedEvil> I started on a ZX81.
May 10 12:53:59 <SpeedEvil> It's just gotten better since then.
May 10 12:54:08 <Elrond> SpeedEvil - :-)
May 10 12:54:11 <buz> i wonder if sun already has a neo emu running javafx mobile
May 10 12:54:17 <buz> that really looks quite promising
May 10 12:54:20 <SpeedEvil> I suspect that laser keyboard set on a ceramic tile would have better tactile feedback :)
May 10 12:55:12 * aloril considers buying P1, P1+ and V2 all (certainly P1)
May 10 12:55:13 <guaqua> it'd be nice to know what the sun people are working on
May 10 12:55:25 <guaqua> or is it now just mockups
May 10 12:55:26 <LuitvD> aloril: everyone does ;)
May 10 12:55:32 * zecke hugs his bottle of mate
May 10 12:55:43 <buz> yeah
May 10 12:55:55 <buz> i'm trying to figure out if i can wait for p1-
May 10 12:55:57 <CM> I did the mistake to buy a M$ keyboard where they had changed the location of the Ins/Del/Home/End/PgUp/PgDn keys.. 
May 10 12:56:00 <buz> uhm +
May 10 12:56:07 <CM> Can't help myself pressing wrong all the time
May 10 12:56:18 <buz> cm dont get me started on lenovos placement of those
May 10 12:56:31 <buz> and i will have to figure out a way to switch Fn and Control
May 10 12:56:36 <buz> control ought to be the left most key
May 10 12:56:44 <CM> Hehe
May 10 12:57:09 <Elrond> Oh, yeah. I'm also too used to the old placing of those keys. :)
May 10 12:57:43 <LuitvD> CM: I once had a Logitech with a strange Del/PgUp/PgDn/Home/End block, and now I have a normal 105key layout and can't stop pressing the wrong keys :P
May 10 12:57:45 <Elrond> buz - Yeah, I'm also curious, if waiting for 1+ is better or ot. (I mostly care for battery time...)
May 10 12:57:57 <buz> i mostly care about wifi
May 10 12:57:59 <aloril> LuitvD: well.. I'll clarify, I will buy P1, considering P1+ and V2
May 10 12:58:18 <buz> i will buy p1.5 but i'm considering p1 ;)=
May 10 12:58:29 <CM> LuitvD: Poor one, you must have had a seriously disturbed upbringing (the computer hardware related part) :P
May 10 12:58:38 * aloril mostly cares about getting free (as in speech) phone as soon as possible
May 10 12:58:53 * buz mostly cares baout hardware that does what he wants
May 10 12:59:18 * Elrond cares about a nice toy with working gps. ;o)
May 10 12:59:30 <buz> na gps i dont need
May 10 12:59:31 * LuitvD seriously considers buying a ROKR E6 to hack openmoko on to
May 10 12:59:40 <buz> you must be somewhat masochist
May 10 12:59:53 <buz> besides i havent yet come across a non crappy moto phone
May 10 13:00:03 <guaqua> buz: i'm waiting for wlan aswell
May 10 13:00:15 <hrw> I hope that phone will work also BT-GPS so I will be able to use it with external devices (with navigation software)
May 10 13:00:20 <LuitvD> buz: the ROKR E6 comes quite near...
May 10 13:00:21 <CM> Elrond: I agree, gps is a must
May 10 13:00:48 <buz> the faster cpu in 1.5 might help, reports of sluggishness in p0 are quite a few
May 10 13:00:56 <LuitvD> buz: but if I can get my hands on an e2881, I'd love to try getting that one to run moko
May 10 13:01:10 <buz> oh yes that one is still high on my list
May 10 13:01:28 <LuitvD> the e2881 still is a very nice phone :P
May 10 13:01:28 <buz> however, it might be hard it being omap and all that
May 10 13:01:37 <aloril> getting hardware to do what I want sometimes requires free phone
May 10 13:01:53 <LuitvD> yeah...
May 10 13:02:01 <buz> aloril: yeah well duuh, if it didnt, i would have gotten htc devices a long time ago
May 10 13:02:27 <LuitvD> buz: why HTC? those devices are way to expensive
May 10 13:02:54 <nnpiggy> counter
May 10 13:02:54 <aloril> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 : >= 2007-05-10 (uncertainty is a optimistic guess) P1: 4 days 10:57:03 (4.456 +-3.5 days) (1137;199)
May 10 13:03:18 <Elrond> hrw - Well, it's probably a matter of relaying NMEA from gpsd to a BT rfcomm channel, shouldn't be hard.
May 10 13:03:49 <buz> but a free device without wifi generally cant do wifi ;)
May 10 13:03:59 <buz> LuitvD: who other than them makes qwerty-wifi-cam-sliders?
May 10 13:04:29 <LuitvD> nokia?
May 10 13:04:32 <LuitvD> :P
May 10 13:04:42 * aloril suspects V2 will be much more expensive than P1/P2
May 10 13:05:02 <Elrond> aloril - You mean V2 or P2?
May 10 13:05:10 <guaqua> what's this v2?
May 10 13:05:13 <guaqua> any specs on it?
May 10 13:05:19 <aloril> V2 (next year hardware)
May 10 13:05:20 <buz> guaqua: neo from nirvana
May 10 13:05:31 <LuitvD> why nirvana?
May 10 13:05:43 <guaqua> photos anything?
May 10 13:05:47 <buz> heaven or what have you
May 10 13:06:24 <Elrond> aloril - Judging from all the rumours -- IF openmoko is a success, they will design more different hardware, I hope there will be some hardware in the price (and hopefully quality!) class of P1.
May 10 13:06:26 <aloril> guaqua: no specs, but reportedly it has *very* nice CPU (said often with emphasis) and seen whisper of faster communication (maybe faster than 3G)
May 10 13:07:17 <LuitvD> aloril: wimax would be nice... some tests here in the netherlands with wimax already :)
May 10 13:07:38 <guaqua> wimax :/
May 10 13:07:48 <guaqua> what would i do with wimax?
May 10 13:08:00 <Elrond> guaqua - Download food. ;o)
May 10 13:08:03 <LuitvD> guaqua: wimax is like 4G
May 10 13:08:15 <LuitvD> or even 5G, not sure
May 10 13:08:16 <guaqua> probably the only use would be streaming porn - and we all know how useful that is
May 10 13:08:16 <LuitvD> ...
May 10 13:08:42 <guaqua> 3g is more than enough for me at the moment
May 10 13:08:46 <LuitvD> GPRS > Edge > UMTS > HSDPA > HSUPA > ... > WiMAX
May 10 13:08:59 <LuitvD> 3G is full of patents.
May 10 13:09:11 <LuitvD> 3G sucks for device-developers
May 10 13:09:13 <guaqua> true
May 10 13:09:13 <LuitvD> seriously
May 10 13:09:17 <LuitvD> it's bad
May 10 13:09:30 <guaqua> but there's no wimax here
May 10 13:09:47 <LuitvD> not yet
May 10 13:10:08 <LuitvD> I guess at the time, only japan seems to have WiMAX
May 10 13:10:16 <SpeedEvil> Wimax is over-hyped though.
May 10 13:10:23 <LuitvD> but then again, the v2 isn't here yet either...
May 10 13:10:30 <LuitvD> SpeedEvil: tell me why
May 10 13:10:32 <pH5> LuitvD: does power consumption increase linearly with speed in that list?
May 10 13:10:43 <LuitvD> pH5: I guess so XD
May 10 13:10:45 <pH5> i thought wimax was something in-between hs?pa and wifi
May 10 13:10:48 <hrw> 3G is easy - you get chip from qualcomm and use it
May 10 13:11:12 <pH5> in terms of range/power suckage/speed
May 10 13:11:19 <SpeedEvil> LuitvD: Basically. 
May 10 13:11:30 <SpeedEvil> LuitvD: There is sharply limited spectrum out there. 
May 10 13:11:31 <LuitvD> hrw: and pay about 50$ royalties for the patents on 3G technologies
May 10 13:11:50 <buz> i dont want mobile pr0n, please spare me
May 10 13:11:55 <LuitvD> :P
May 10 13:12:10 <SpeedEvil> LuitvD: If it's used, then especially if the 'long range' aspects are used, you get mutual interference problems.
May 10 13:12:46 <zecke> hrw: and you hope broadcom is not suing you
May 10 13:12:48 <SpeedEvil> Consider that with an evenly distributed plane of transmitters, the noise from all of them sums to infinity.
May 10 13:13:20 <LuitvD> SpeedEvil: right... I guess they have some way to fix that before they deploy it all over the country... :P
May 10 13:14:10 <zecke> stefan_schmidt: do you have root access on buildhost-old?
May 10 13:14:13 <LuitvD> currently the dutch telecom guys are testing wimax in some deserted place in the netherlands too (not really possible actually :P )
May 10 13:14:45 <LuitvD> I guess it is working quite well...
May 10 13:14:54 <LuitvD> or else they'd never try :P
May 10 13:15:03 <SpeedEvil> LuitvD: You can't fix it - unless you change the physics.
May 10 13:15:14 <stefan_schmidt> zecke: nah, no root access on openmoko boxes. Seems I need to exploit my privs. ;)
May 10 13:15:19 <hrw> from what I heard lately only qualcomm and nokia do 3G chipsets now
May 10 13:15:26 <SpeedEvil> If the thing has a range of 10Km, then you are getting interfered with by all the devices within 10Km.
May 10 13:15:32 <stefan_schmidt> zecke: Only one with root should be Laf0rge
May 10 13:15:36 <SpeedEvil> 60Ghz may fix this to some degree.
May 10 13:15:41 * LuitvD immediately has the "Star Trekkin' " tune in his head
May 10 13:15:47 <LuitvD> SpeedEvil: thank you very much for that :P
May 10 13:15:54 <aloril> SpeedEvil: did you saw mickeys comment about production being likely complete units with screen?
May 10 13:15:56 <SpeedEvil> As it's absorbed by the atmosphere.
May 10 13:16:10 <SpeedEvil> aloril: No - I saw the other guy here.
May 10 13:16:20 <SpeedEvil> three letter nick that I can't remember...
May 10 13:16:21 <SpeedEvil> roh
May 10 13:16:38 <SpeedEvil> Do I mean roh?
May 10 13:16:43 * SpeedEvil is unsure.
May 10 13:16:47 <Clint> ruh-roh
May 10 13:16:52 <Moo^^> if I want to exclude certain (broken) packages from openmoko build, how do I do it?
May 10 13:17:22 <LuitvD> SpeedEvil: yeah, interference and diffusion are difficult to work with, but I guess someone will eventually make sure it's possible..
May 10 13:18:09 <SpeedEvil> at 60Ghz, it's mostly absorbed in a kilometer.
May 10 13:18:23 <SpeedEvil> This means that you only have a limited range of stuff interfering with you.
May 10 13:18:38 <SpeedEvil> The hard case isn't 'deserted wilderness'. It's 'crowded city'.
May 10 13:19:19 <LuitvD> why 60GHz? ...
May 10 13:19:43 <SpeedEvil> It's a frequency at which oxygen strongly absorbs radio signals.
May 10 13:20:20 <LuitvD> but is it a frequency used by wimax?
May 10 13:20:30 <LuitvD> :S
May 10 13:20:36 <SpeedEvil> Think of a huge cocktail party in first a tiled unfurnished room, and a furnished soft one. 
May 10 13:20:54 <SpeedEvil> With the soft furnished room, you can hear neighbours better.
May 10 13:21:10 <SpeedEvil> Even though with the tiled one, you may hear better at a distance if there is one person
May 10 13:22:36 * LuitvD is off for a drink
May 10 13:29:36 <hrw> ~lart UPS
May 10 13:30:20 <zecke> hrw: what did they do to you?
May 10 13:30:52 * CM wants apt back in the channel
May 10 13:31:06 <XorA> hrw: I shall join you in that lar
May 10 13:31:07 <XorA> t
May 10 13:44:02 <Moo^^> dialer build fails, is there a solution for it yet?
May 10 13:44:17 <hrw> yes
May 10 13:44:44 <Moo^^> hrw: care to give a pointer?
May 10 13:45:10 <hrw> no
May 10 13:45:18 <hrw> you did not care so why I have to?
May 10 13:45:45 <Moo^^> hrw: could you be more specific? I am not sure whether I follw you.
May 10 13:46:51 <hrw> 10 15:53 < Moo^^> dialer build fails, is there a solution for it yet?
May 10 13:47:05 <hrw> my glassball did not return from service yet
May 10 13:47:19 <aloril> (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[GPS_Navigation]] [[User:Piggy%40baqaqi.chi.il.us]] [[Buying_Interest_List]] [[Wish_List_-_Hardware]]
May 10 13:47:36 <Moo^^> hrw: let me polish your glassball a bit: http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=554
May 10 13:48:08 <quitte> 2 hours and 15 minutes until the 10th is over in China. I hoped to get an update about the production today.
May 10 13:49:18 <buz> personally i would hope they do some seirous 24h testing on whatever the produced
May 10 13:49:18 <aloril> maybe in 12-15h
May 10 13:49:25 <buz> so it might take a while still
May 10 13:49:32 <hrw> let me see
May 10 13:49:54 <aloril> buz: yeah, if update is after testing, then unlikely to have anything in 12h
May 10 13:50:55 <hrw> Moo^^: thx - openmoko-libs need update/commit
May 10 13:50:57 <aloril> next update could be "you can order it at openmoko.com" ;-)
May 10 13:50:59 <buz> would be kinda stupid to first declare the production run to be over then say it only yielded defective devices
May 10 13:51:55 <Moo^^> hrw: ok, thanks! I'll be waiting for it.
May 10 13:52:09 <buz> i still hope the update will come with details on 1.5 :)
May 10 13:52:24 <buz> to make an educated decision
May 10 13:52:46 <CIA-24> openmoko: 03thomas * r1945 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/openmoko-libs/ (5 files in 3 dirs): 
May 10 13:52:46 <CIA-24> openmoko: * libmokogsmd/moko-gsmd-connection.h: Include gsmd/error.h (for enums)
May 10 13:52:46 <CIA-24> openmoko: * libmokoui/moko-message-dialog.c:
May 10 13:52:46 <CIA-24> openmoko: (moko_message_dialog_realize_cb): Add some error trapping
May 10 13:52:46 <CIA-24> openmoko: * libmokoui/moko-stock.c:
May 10 13:52:47 <CIA-24> openmoko: * libmokoui/moko-stock.h: Add MOKO_STOCK_HANDSET
May 10 13:53:09 <buz> mhh what is MOKO_STOCK_HANDSET?
May 10 13:53:32 <Moo^^> I am not sure, but let see whether it fixes my build ^_^
May 10 13:54:12 <hrw> Moo^^: build
May 10 13:56:28 <hrw> icon for button 'switch to headset'?
May 10 14:03:12 <Moo^^> hrw: great! openmoko-dialer compiled fine!
May 10 14:03:30 <buz> Moo^^: do you have a phone? can it call?
May 10 14:03:43 <Moo^^> no. I am just building x86 target.
May 10 14:05:12 <Stephmw> ~lart Sametime
May 10 14:06:55 <zecke> XorA: 
May 10 14:08:26 <XorA> zecke: what?
May 10 14:08:42 <zecke> XorA: sorry, I'm unable to use a keyboard
May 10 14:09:09 <zecke> XorA: I wasn't sure if I want to ask about audio profiles and progress
May 10 14:09:18 <XorA> zecke: for neo?
May 10 14:09:24 <zecke> XorA: generally
May 10 14:09:59 <XorA> zecke: the asoc-scenarios stuff is stalled as we have real work to do
May 10 14:16:55 <prpplague> any word on what vendor/chipset for 802.11 fic is targeting for the neo? i know the announcement was that they had pretty much settled on ar6k, but i was curious if they were going to use a module
May 10 14:19:16 <CM> prpplague: LaF0rge is in .tw now, so I'm hoping for an update on his blog soon :)
May 10 14:20:08 <prpplague> CM: ahh ok thanks
May 10 14:20:18 <hrw> brb
May 10 14:20:51 <CM> prpplague: No other rumors or so heard yet..
May 10 14:21:01 <prpplague> CM: we've been trying to use a marvel 8385 based module and just about had all we can stand of marvell
May 10 14:47:38 <PBeck> tag
May 10 14:49:13 <Sufflope> counter?
May 10 14:49:13 <aloril> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 : >= 2007-05-10 (uncertainty is a optimistic guess) source: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/MokoMakefile ; P0: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Wishlist:Neo1973_P0_Review; 4 days 09:10:44 (4.382 +-3.5 days) for devices for *ANYBODY* for $350 (targeting developers) (preorders: not yet) (2007-05-13);  4 months, 5 days (128.882 +-15.0 days) for mass market (2007-09-15): see topic for more info (1138;199)
May 10 14:56:23 <cheesy> are the 4 days realistic in any way?
May 10 14:58:47 <zecke> wow projects.openmoko.org finally works
May 10 15:03:08 <aloril2> Sufflope: without '?' you get shorter and easier to read counter message
May 10 15:05:11 <SpeedEvil> zecke: Maybe.
May 10 15:05:30 <SpeedEvil> They are an optimistic time that the first batch could concievably ship.
May 10 15:05:47 <SpeedEvil> The first batch is now rolling off the production lines around now apparently.
May 10 15:09:53 <Sufflope> aloril2: yes but if I remember well the P1 dates are not the same between those two counters :)
May 10 15:13:59 <CM> counter
May 10 15:13:59 <aloril> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 : >= 2007-05-10 (uncertainty is a optimistic guess) P1: 4 days 08:45:58 (4.365 +-3.5 days) (1139;199)
May 10 15:19:48 <pH5> hm... what sources are the shipped P1 kernels compiled from?
May 10 15:20:21 <pH5> I have /sys/bus/platform/devices/gta01-pm-gps.0/power_vdd_core_1v5 on the GTA01Bv4, but I can't find "power_vdd_core_1v5" anywhere in the SVN patches.
May 10 15:20:42 <CM> pH5: I've heard at least 2 different, and also modules from a different kernel
May 10 15:21:02 <pH5> on the P0 with a self-compiled kernel there is a power_core_1v5 instead, and I see that in the kernel sources, too.
May 10 15:21:54 <XorA> pH5: time to have fun and report LaForge to LaForge for GPL violations :-D
May 10 15:22:02 <pH5> XorA: :D
May 10 15:25:18 <zecke> where is the src of dm2
May 10 15:25:25 <zecke> :)
May 10 15:25:36 <pH5> somewhere in taiwan probably
May 10 15:25:44 <zecke> hehe
May 10 15:25:59 <zecke> pH5: well, you could argue the goedel number of it is inside PI
May 10 15:26:35 <zecke> I was happy the P0 package contained the GPLv2 text :)
May 10 15:27:03 <pH5> :)
May 10 15:27:09 <alphaone> zecke: type license on the p1 u-boot :-)
May 10 15:27:46 <zecke> I had hoped to get a 2nd power plug so I could give the P0 device away
May 10 15:28:08 <XorA> zecke: just give them a usb cable
May 10 15:28:40 <zecke> XorA: I could buy a nokia battery and a charger for them
May 10 15:28:58 * pH5 hopes the secret gps poweron fix will show up in svn once laforge is back.
May 10 15:30:54 <aloril2> Sufflope: they should be same after various s/stuff// and one s/blurb/P1/
May 10 15:41:59 <aloril2> well not exactly, but close
May 10 15:42:20 <aloril2> (times should be same though)
May 10 15:46:43 <CIA-24> openmoko: 03thomas * r1946 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/applications/openmoko-dialer/src/dialer-window-outgoing.c: openmoko-dialer: Display number and icon in outgoing window
May 10 15:47:19 <aloril> (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[WiFi_support_in_OpenMoko]] [[Buying_Interest_List]]
May 10 15:55:34 * k-s[WORK] is away: lunch!
May 10 15:59:36 <don-o> counter
May 10 15:59:37 <aloril> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 : >= 2007-05-10 (uncertainty is a optimistic guess) P1: 4 days 08:00:21 (4.334 +-3.5 days) (1140;199)
May 10 16:01:47 <TRIsoft> gtg cu
May 10 16:07:19 <aloril> (script) openmoko-community: Sean Moss-Pultz <sean at openmoko.com> Re: Preorder
May 10 16:09:05 <hrw|gone> cu
May 10 16:11:29 <nelson> mid may is five days from now.
May 10 16:14:14 <aloril2> Sean is talking about getting shipping to work smoothly? Interesting and promising
May 10 16:16:40 <SpeedEvil> He's going to butter the packages.
May 10 16:17:41 <marksworld> what do you mean?
May 10 16:17:52 <marksworld> cooking butter?
May 10 16:17:53 <marksworld> or
May 10 16:17:57 <marksworld> Bread butter
May 10 16:18:05 <marksworld> or Slow-churned butter
May 10 16:18:20 <SpeedEvil> So many variables.
May 10 16:18:27 * aloril2 is trying to read between lines ;-)
May 10 16:19:07 <SpeedEvil> aloril: Read the source - it's content: Multipart/betweenthelines
May 10 16:21:01 <aloril2> SpeedEvil: ;-)
May 10 16:46:51 <aloril2> SpeedEvil: would be a bit interesting to create message in a way that when you look at source there would another message between lines
May 10 17:13:58 <prpplague> cute
May 10 17:28:13 <hrw> re
May 10 17:28:18 <hrw> I got bv4
May 10 17:31:47 <XorA> yay
May 10 17:32:34 <pH5> one more happy developer :)
May 10 17:32:40 <hrw> had to pay this time
May 10 17:32:46 <hrw> ~lart ups
May 10 17:42:48 <XorA> wont get mine until monday
May 10 17:47:19 <aloril> (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Buying_Interest_List]] [[Digital_Radio]] [[Wish_List_-_Hardware]] [[Digital_Television]] [[Getting_Started_with_your_Neo1973/de]]
May 10 17:54:25 * ks-[AWAY_WORK] is back.
May 10 18:00:28 <hrw> http://blog.haerwu.biz/2007/05/10/got-gta01b_v4/
May 10 18:16:19 <aloril> (script) planet: Marcin "hrw" Juszkiewicz: Got GTA01B_v4 http://blog.haerwu.biz/2007/05/10/got-gta01b_v4/
May 10 18:16:55 <noidd> I got the bv4 before I got the email
May 10 18:58:44 <guaqua> puts
May 10 18:58:54 <andy___> bye
May 10 19:48:19 <aloril> (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Digital_Radio]]
May 10 20:30:44 <quitte_> what kind of hci does the neo have?
May 10 20:31:21 <don-o> noidd: is the dialer application working? can you make calls with it?
May 10 20:31:34 <don-o> there should be a wiki page for what works
May 10 20:32:30 <Hopscotch> quitte_: usb
May 10 20:32:50 <quitte_> Hopscotch: uhm yes. which of those? ohci uhci...?
May 10 20:33:09 <Hopscotch> quitte_: ohci
May 10 20:34:25 <Elrond> Has anyone tested the usbhost-Part yet?
May 10 20:46:22 <balrog-kun> an ohci-compatible one
May 10 20:47:00 <balrog-kun> at least to the extent that the stock OCHI driver and stock OHCI emulator can be used
May 10 20:55:00 <kpanic> hi guys, that's cool. I will buy the neo for sure, and congrats for the project: )
May 10 20:55:11 <kpanic> :)
May 10 20:55:37 <xkr47> hi
May 10 20:55:42 <xkr47> anyone watching the eurovision ?-)
May 10 20:55:47 <guaqua> yes
May 10 20:55:49 <guaqua> unfortunately
May 10 20:55:54 <xkr47> did the voting start yet ?
May 10 20:56:08 <xkr47> I have no tv and radio but I know what I want to vote.. so I need to know when it starts :)
May 10 20:56:10 <guaqua> my eyes are bleeding because of austria's performance
May 10 20:56:15 <xkr47> :P
May 10 20:56:40 <guaqua> which one are you voting?
May 10 20:56:54 <xkr47> 28 :)
May 10 20:56:59 <guaqua> and that is?
May 10 20:57:18 <xkr47> sec
May 10 20:57:33 <xkr47> *wikying*
May 10 20:57:45 <xkr47> Latvia
May 10 20:57:50 <guaqua> err
May 10 20:57:58 <guaqua> they are performing now
May 10 20:58:02 <guaqua> this is in italian?
May 10 20:58:12 <xkr47> I saw them yesterday 
May 10 20:58:26 <xkr47> I was on the rehearsal of the semifinal :)
May 10 20:58:31 <guaqua> haha
May 10 20:58:34 <guaqua> okay :)
May 10 20:58:49 <xkr47> so I guess the voting starts in some 10 mins maybe after they have re-played all the alternatives
May 10 20:59:44 <lrak> night
May 10 20:59:58 <guaqua> the voting starts now i guess
May 10 21:00:03 <xkr47> cool thx
May 10 21:00:46 <guaqua> now you can vote
May 10 21:01:23 <xkr47> I guess I have some 14 minutes left to vote ?-)
May 10 21:01:33 <guaqua> 14:10
May 10 21:05:30 <guaqua> i'm thinking i have to vote for dj bobo :D
May 10 21:05:42 <xkr47> haa found live stream
May 10 21:05:44 <xkr47> mms://a1029.l2187827029.c21878.e.lm.akamaistream.net/D/1029/21878/v0001/reflector:27029?auth=da_bmdCc_cZbUaWcHaHbuc9czagdRducHdL-bgq4JP-E-pnL-m8k8&aifp=v01&WMBitRate=&WMCache=0
May 10 21:06:04 <guaqua> how do i vote?
May 10 21:06:18 <xkr47> don't they show in tv ?
May 10 21:06:25 <guaqua> it's ambiguous
May 10 21:06:34 <xkr47> in our country you send "ESC22" to a number
May 10 21:07:01 * CM watches MTV Europe instead
May 10 21:07:07 <CM> "Schlager sucks"
May 10 21:07:10 <CM> The history of Metal
May 10 21:07:17 <xkr47> sorry, my url was bad, you need to grab it through this one instead.. http://akastreaming.yle.fi/vp/fiyle/no_geo/live_d.asx
May 10 21:07:34 * DukeOfURL is disgusted with American TV
May 10 21:09:01 <xkr47> guaqua, did you figure out ?
May 10 21:09:08 <guaqua> nope
May 10 21:09:17 <guaqua> and is dj bobo from switzerland?
May 10 21:09:24 <guaqua> err i figured out how to vote
May 10 21:09:31 <xkr47> I have to agree ours is a bit badly shown also
May 10 21:09:36 <xkr47> nice
May 10 21:09:43 <xkr47> know what to vote also ?-)
May 10 21:10:22 <sparq> I never understood why people would vote on television events. In Los Angeles, we have frequent elections to sour anyone to the idea.
May 10 21:10:53 <sparq> Three so far this year.
May 10 21:11:28 <guaqua> this is the only one where i vote
May 10 21:11:31 <balrog-kun> fun
May 10 21:11:40 <guaqua> it's a family tradition
May 10 21:11:46 <balrog-kun> elections make you think you're important :)
May 10 21:12:21 <xkr47> I've never voted before, but it being in my country for the first (and probably only) time ever I thought I'd participate :)
May 10 21:12:24 <buz> dj bobo is from switzerland
May 10 21:12:31 <buz> he's been around since i was a child
May 10 21:12:36 <guaqua> buz: yep :D
May 10 21:12:39 <guaqua> i voted him
May 10 21:12:44 <buz> you did?
May 10 21:12:49 <buz> i thought he was awful
May 10 21:12:50 <guaqua> yeah
May 10 21:12:54 <buz> i liked him in like 3rd grade
May 10 21:12:58 <guaqua> not even close to the worst
May 10 21:13:00 <guaqua> same here
May 10 21:13:10 <buz> was there like lordi#2?
May 10 21:13:13 <xkr47> :D
May 10 21:13:14 <buz> i cant stand to watch the crap
May 10 21:13:18 <guaqua> the song is just way better than the others
May 10 21:13:19 * sparq peers at all the strange people with TVs
May 10 21:13:21 <xkr47> buz, :)
May 10 21:13:24 <guaqua> buz: nope
May 10 21:13:29 <buz> dooh
May 10 21:13:38 <buz> i thought there would be tons of lordi clones
May 10 21:13:41 <xkr47> sparq, I don't have a tv, but I have a dvb card in the computer :)
May 10 21:13:44 <guaqua> but there was andorra and good charlotte in basque language
May 10 21:13:53 <buz> rofl
May 10 21:14:01 <guaqua> and estonia is going to be in top 3 :/
May 10 21:14:10 * sparq peers at xkr47 a little less suspiciously
May 10 21:14:20 <guaqua> belgium might actually be worse than finland this time :)
May 10 21:14:38 <guaqua> i don't even have a dvb card, we got multicast tv here :)
May 10 21:14:53 <xkr47> sparq, :)
May 10 21:14:54 <buz> that stuff should be against human rights, really
May 10 21:15:12 <guaqua> 30 seconds to go
May 10 21:15:21 <guaqua> ;)
May 10 21:15:57 <buz> not sure exactly why that crap is legal, really
May 10 21:16:35 <buz> oh, well, musikantenstadl is worse even (germans and austrians will know that, for sure)
May 10 21:16:52 <Mukunda> Is the Neo1973 available for purchase yet?
May 10 21:17:10 <buz> not yet
May 10 21:17:21 <buz> but real soon now (tm)
May 10 21:19:03 * xkr47 thinks it's the finnish group Rajaton that's singing this part
May 10 21:19:16 <balrog-kun> buz: even karaoke is legal in many countries
May 10 21:19:19 <guaqua> probably
May 10 21:19:27 <guaqua> they're pretty good
May 10 21:19:32 <Gartral> hello
May 10 21:19:35 * buz advises germany to send rammstein
May 10 21:19:45 <buz> i would definitely watch THAT
May 10 21:20:22 <xkr47> )
May 10 21:20:22 <xkr47> :)
May 10 21:21:15 <Gartral> im intrested in the openmoko... your site says test units going out soon... what would i have to do to get one?
May 10 21:21:15 <aloril> Gartral: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.)
May 10 21:21:46 <xkr47> hello Gartral :)
May 10 21:21:50 <guaqua> phase 1 is going to be pretty soon...within weeks most likely, or even days...
May 10 21:21:59 <Gartral> ok
May 10 21:22:13 <guaqua> phase 0 was only for ~30 people
May 10 21:22:37 <Gartral> and who do i have to talk to to get one... im intrested in programming for it
May 10 21:22:56 <guaqua> there will be a way to order
May 10 21:23:10 <Gartral> how much?
May 10 21:23:21 <guaqua> 350 usd
May 10 21:23:32 <Gartral> ouch
May 10 21:24:03 <buz> thats quite cheap actually
May 10 21:24:42 <Gartral> how do you figure?
May 10 21:24:59 <buz> look at other pda phones
May 10 21:25:07 <buz> even the most lowend command that price
May 10 21:25:16 <buz> much less those with vga and gps
May 10 21:25:24 <Gartral> true
May 10 21:26:04 <hads> Very true.
May 10 21:26:37 <Gartral> but thats still a pritty penny out of my poket :(
May 10 21:27:25 <Gartral> and will that price stay through mass market phase?
May 10 21:27:40 <hads> No idea.
May 10 21:27:51 <Gartral> ok, just thought ide ask
May 10 21:27:52 <buz> yeah, but i'd guess so
May 10 21:28:01 <buz> but you get better hardware some time in summer
May 10 21:28:10 <hads> I don't think it's an unreasonable price at all.
May 10 21:28:12 <buz> in time for massmarket anyway
May 10 21:29:20 <Gartral> for the hardware itself the price is in my opinion a little high, 50 usd mabey. but this just my opinion
May 10 21:29:27 <buz> http://youtube.com/watch?v=9-dDxp8Cez0 thats just bad
May 10 21:29:55 <buz> but then again, compared to the other crap, it is quite good, i agree
May 10 21:31:00 <Sufflope> a few questions from a non-dev interested in P1 :
May 10 21:31:09 <buz> shoot
May 10 21:31:30 * buz is a "non" dev himself
May 10 21:31:32 <Sufflope> is it usable as a phone ? (I don't expect it to be a complete geek toy out of the box, but would like at least to be able to use it :D)
May 10 21:31:49 <mjr> Gartral, 50? You're insane.
May 10 21:31:51 <buz> well it should be able to make calls
May 10 21:32:10 <balrog-kun> we don't need no stinking calls
May 10 21:32:11 <Sufflope> does it cost something to FIC to sell them 350USD ?
May 10 21:32:13 <hads> mjr: I think he meant $50 less.
May 10 21:32:20 <Gartral> the motto is: "free your phone"...
May 10 21:32:25 <Gartral> yea
May 10 21:32:26 <Sufflope> or would I help them by buying one ? :)
May 10 21:32:32 <hads> Gartral: Yes, Free as in speech
May 10 21:32:40 <mjr> Ok, that's less insane. Still, it isn't about price
May 10 21:32:44 <Gartral> i know that...
May 10 21:32:54 <hads> mjr: Exactly.
May 10 21:33:07 <hads> I'd pay more for a free phone.
May 10 21:33:39 <Sufflope> I can hardly understand who answers whom :)
May 10 21:33:50 <buz> not sure about sms
May 10 21:33:50 <buz> contacts etc should be working as well
May 10 21:33:51 <pavelm2> Hello, everyone.
May 10 21:34:01 <Sufflope> will FIC earn money by selling P1 350USD ?
May 10 21:34:06 <Gartral> well.. it is better becuase all the money is going for hardware... not EULAs
May 10 21:34:41 <hads> Sufflope: You'd hope so, otherwise there's not a lot of point for them.
May 10 21:34:52 <Sufflope> I mean I'd better pay more so they have some cash (OK, I alone won't refund them :)) to continue the adventure
May 10 21:35:20 <Sufflope> hads: yes but since it's quite a « private » sell targeted to dev you could expect them to reduce the price to get apps
May 10 21:35:30 <balrog-kun> i don't think they are really needing money, they will make enough profit from it anyway
May 10 21:35:46 <Gartral> o, one more question... is the system hdd based or completely flash memory?
May 10 21:36:04 <Sufflope> I don't know FIC's background, maybe they are a big over-rich company...
May 10 21:36:10 <mjr> Gartral, flash
May 10 21:36:11 <balrog-kun> Gartral: flash
May 10 21:36:17 <balrog-kun> there's also an SD slot
May 10 21:36:29 <balrog-kun> Sufflope: they kindof are
May 10 21:37:00 <Gartral>  ty... and is refomatting an optrion if the kernel goes unstable??
May 10 21:37:20 <Sufflope> hurry, P1 :D
May 10 21:37:38 <Sufflope> I've been sticking around since February or so, and I can't wait anymore
May 10 21:37:40 <balrog-kun> Gartral: yes, it's designed for frequent updates
May 10 21:38:03 <Gartral> ok, cool... sorry about asking annoying questions
May 10 21:38:43 <buz> i estimate gross margin to be in excess of 50%
May 10 21:38:44 <pavelm2> Has anyone their phase1 device, already?
May 10 21:38:45 <aloril> pavelm2: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.)
May 10 21:39:17 <Gartral> p1 in may
May 10 21:39:22 <buz> isupply estimates production cost for blackberries to be about 110$
May 10 21:39:27 <buz> so there is ample room
May 10 21:39:58 <Gartral> what about replacement parts?
May 10 21:40:04 <pavelm2> gartal: p1 is currently waiting for me at the prague airport.
May 10 21:40:05 <buz> for aphone???
May 10 21:40:18 <buz> did you ever open a phone?
May 10 21:40:25 <buz> good luck replacing anything, really
May 10 21:40:27 <mjr> I did, and fixed it :]
May 10 21:40:28 <hads> pavelm2: I believe some p0 people have got their p1 already.
May 10 21:40:32 <mjr> but I only replaced the power switch
May 10 21:40:38 <Gartral> like batteries... charger... 
May 10 21:40:52 <buz> batteries supposedly are compatible to some nokia
May 10 21:40:57 <pavelm2> hads: I was hoping one of them would tell me.
May 10 21:41:06 <buz> and as for chargers, ebay is awash with usb chargers
May 10 21:41:08 <pavelm2> buz: one-way compatible, see wiki.
May 10 21:41:11 <mjr> batteries are replaceable, and as buz said, some nokia batteries will work
May 10 21:41:17 <Gartral> i want one of these phones
May 10 21:41:24 <buz> who doesnt ;=)
May 10 21:41:28 <mjr> charging is via usb
May 10 21:41:33 <Gartral> ok
May 10 21:41:49 <hads> pavelm2: There were some people talking yesterday (for me) that they had theirs in their hand.
May 10 21:41:54 <Gartral> will sdio cards work in the sd slot?
May 10 21:42:14 <mjr> Gartral, well, first, it's microsd, and it's in a tight location, so no, not really
May 10 21:42:32 <pavelm2> Ok, my question was:
May 10 21:42:38 <mjr> plus, you'd forego having a microsd memory card, which would leave you with just the internal 64MB flash (compressed, but still)
May 10 21:42:47 <pavelm2> is there software that enables openmoko to take calls and place calls?
May 10 21:43:01 <buz> pavelm2: yes as of today, we believe
May 10 21:43:07 <mjr> (aside from I don't know if sdio would work anyway, but the practical issues are enough to justify a "not really")
May 10 21:43:14 <pavelm2> ...I could do that with some versions of sw already, but mixer was broken, etc.
May 10 21:43:18 <Gartral> though witch GSM carriers?
May 10 21:43:23 <buz> all
May 10 21:43:25 <pavelm2> buz: Which software should I flash?
May 10 21:43:26 <mjr> Gartral, any?
May 10 21:43:29 <balrog-kun> pavelm2: iirc the dialer worked already in Phase 0
May 10 21:43:34 <buz> pavelm2: its in svn i think
May 10 21:43:49 <Gartral> sim card based or flash programed?
May 10 21:43:56 <pavelm2> balrog: Well.. it almost worked at one point, yes ;-)
May 10 21:43:57 <mjr> SIM card, as GSM is
May 10 21:44:27 <Gartral> cool and as open source... universal SIM
May 10 21:44:32 <balrog-kun> pavelm2: iirc people made calls :)
May 10 21:45:04 <buz> using the terminal afaik
May 10 21:45:10 <Gartral> i wonder if it could run wine and teamspeak?
May 10 21:45:20 <balrog-kun> Gartral: ewwww
May 10 21:45:23 <mjr> Gartral, it's not x86
May 10 21:45:27 <pavelm2> balrog: Yes, I did, too. but stock build never worked properly.
May 10 21:46:00 <Gartral> what... if it works for the moment.. i wouldnt care...
May 10 21:46:13 <balrog-kun> Gartral: why free your phone then?
May 10 21:46:16 <pavelm2> balrog: Latest version on http://buildhost.openmoko.org/tmp/deploy/images/ is may-01, and that does not work too well.
May 10 21:46:17 <Elrond> Has anyone tested the usbhost-part of the neo yet?
May 10 21:46:25 <Elrond> Hi pavelm2! :-)
May 10 21:46:25 <balrog-kun> if want to use closed-source software on it anyway?
May 10 21:46:47 <Gartral> to wait till i could get a working linux based VOiP software
May 10 21:46:59 <pavelm2> balrog: I was hoping someone has location of working images.
May 10 21:47:16 <balrog-kun> pavelm2: i will test as soon as i have a device in my hands :)
May 10 21:47:20 <aloril> (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[WiFi_support_in_OpenMoko]]
May 10 21:47:22 <mjr> there's plenty of working linux voip, what's needed is adapting to the neo's restrictions
May 10 21:47:35 <mjr> (esp. UI-wise)
May 10 21:47:37 <SpeedEvil> GPRS and GSM data latency both suck.
May 10 21:47:52 <pavelm2> elrond: usbhost needs sw support, right?
May 10 21:48:00 <pavelm2> elrond: If it is in latest kernels, I can test it.
May 10 21:48:00 <mjr> and yeah, you don't want to do VOIP over GPRS; GSM-data maybe if you want encrypted comms
May 10 21:48:10 <Gartral> if i apply as a developer would i get a free unit to dev on?
May 10 21:48:10 <pavelm2> elrond: But I believe it was not in phase-0.
May 10 21:48:26 <SpeedEvil> Gartral: Probably not at theis stage, unless you're especially skilled.
May 10 21:48:29 <mjr> Gartral, some did, that time's past. Of course if you have credentials you can always try.
May 10 21:48:34 <pavelm2> Gartal: If you have to ask you probably will not :-)
May 10 21:48:51 <SpeedEvil> GPRS 'push to talk' should work more or less OK.
May 10 21:49:05 <Gartral> true.. but every question is worth asking :)
May 10 21:49:12 <pavelm2> speed: GSM latency is ugly, but if you have EDGE running.. you can call with skype.
May 10 21:49:25 <Gartral> wow
May 10 21:49:31 <pavelm2> speed: Latency is very ugly, but you can talk.
May 10 21:49:37 <mjr> except there's not a running version of skype, is there?
May 10 21:49:43 <SpeedEvil> No.
May 10 21:49:50 <mjr> or were you talking gsm in general, yeah
May 10 21:49:54 <SpeedEvil> Barring qemu solutions :)
May 10 21:49:55 <mjr> skype is evil anyway
May 10 21:50:07 <Gartral> yea
May 10 21:50:16 <pavelm2> mjr: I was talking pc.
May 10 21:50:19 <mjr> (and at least p1 won't have edge)
May 10 21:50:23 <Gartral> evil corporate zombies!
May 10 21:50:33 <SpeedEvil> I'd be surprised if the neo could do much more than a spectrum under emulation.
May 10 21:50:34 <pavelm2> mjr: You could run qemu on openmoko ;-)))))))))))))))))))
May 10 21:50:48 <Hopscotch> why not bochs and then install windows?
May 10 21:50:50 <Gartral> qemu?
May 10 21:51:02 <balrog-kun> mjr: P1 one won't have edge? why's that?
May 10 21:51:02 <Gartral> WINDOWS!?!
May 10 21:51:06 <pavelm2> hopscotch: With win3.1 it might actually work.
May 10 21:51:16 <balrog-kun> mjr: doesn't it depend on the modem only?
May 10 21:51:18 <pavelm2> balrog: Probably to keep the modem cheap.
May 10 21:51:20 <mjr> balrog-kun, old news. Probably price.
May 10 21:51:26 <Hopscotch> pavelm2: im pretty sure it'll work with much newer versions
May 10 21:51:34 <mjr> depends on the GSM chip, yes
May 10 21:51:39 * Gartral hits Hopscotch in the head WINDOWS?!?
May 10 21:51:45 <balrog-kun> ah, so the current GSM chip won't do EDGE?
May 10 21:51:52 <mjr> no, it won't
May 10 21:52:06 <Hopscotch> pavelm2: http://www.pocketgamer.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=3660
May 10 21:52:07 <mjr> it's plainly been stated from day 1
May 10 21:52:15 <balrog-kun> Gartral: who said anything about windows?
May 10 21:52:20 <billl_> counter
May 10 21:52:20 <aloril> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 : >= 2007-05-10 (uncertainty is a optimistic guess) P1: 4 days 02:07:37 (4.089 +-3.5 days) (1141;199)
May 10 21:52:26 <Gartral> Hopscotch did
May 10 21:52:28 <hads> *yawn*
May 10 21:52:34 <balrog-kun> mjr: does that include GPRS too?
May 10 21:52:41 <mjr> balrog-kun, what?
May 10 21:52:49 <pavelm2> hopscotch: try running IE on your ;-)
May 10 21:52:54 <mjr> It has GPRS. It does not have EDGE.
May 10 21:52:59 <Hopscotch> it's a joke - you can emulate an x86 on the neo, but it'll take ages to move the mouse cursor
May 10 21:53:03 <balrog-kun> mjr: ah okay, good
May 10 21:53:05 <hads> It's all on the wiki
May 10 21:53:07 <Gartral> 05:50:50 PM) Hopscotch: why not bochs and then install windows?
May 10 21:53:14 <Hopscotch> pavelm2: after that i'll have to burn myself
May 10 21:53:16 <balrog-kun> mjr: i didn't know the difference between the two protocols was significant
May 10 21:53:25 <Hopscotch> pavelm2: otherwise laforge will not ever talk to me again
May 10 21:53:42 <Hopscotch> and he would be right to do so...
May 10 21:53:43 <mjr> in fact, it's got pretty much the best plain-GPRS there is, multislot class 12
May 10 21:53:54 <mjr> still, EDGE would be better, yes
May 10 21:53:59 <pavelm2> mjr: Class _12_?
May 10 21:54:01 <balrog-kun> i mean i know that there are places with GPRS coverage and no EDGE coverage, but didn't know it also makes difference for the modems
May 10 21:54:18 <pavelm2> mjr: class 10 (4+2) is common. 12 is something exotic, iirc.
May 10 21:54:37 <mjr> pavelm2, unless I've been misled, yes
May 10 21:54:49 <Elrond> pavelm2 - I have no idea on the sw-support. But yes, sw-support is needed....
May 10 21:55:06 <balrog-kun> Gartral: sorry, overlooked this line :)
May 10 21:55:07 <mjr> Neo1973_Hardware wiki page says class 12
May 10 21:55:08 <Gartral> so then why is latency such a problem?
May 10 21:55:18 <hads> Because it's GPRS
May 10 21:55:30 <mjr> as does the chip data sheet
May 10 21:55:31 * Gartral blinks
May 10 21:55:58 <mjr> difference to class 10, of course, being a higher potential upstream
May 10 21:56:00 <pavelm2> elrond: Plugging usb mouse to hub to openmoko is trivial.
May 10 21:56:12 <Gartral> HAH
May 10 21:56:16 <pavelm2> elrond: BUt I believe I tried that before with no luck
May 10 21:56:18 <balrog-kun> i guess the real-time encoding and decoding of audio with this compression ratio may also be a problem even if the bandwidth doesn't have that much latency (e.g. over wifi)
May 10 21:56:57 <pavelm2> According to wikipedia, gprs class 12 is 4+4 timeslots.
May 10 21:56:58 <mjr> balrog-kun, EDGE is kinda an evolution of GPRS, or somesuch...
May 10 21:57:02 <mjr> pavelm2, yes
May 10 21:57:04 <Gartral> a usb keyboard, mouse, battery powered hub.... and you have the worlds smallest desktop computer
May 10 21:57:05 <SpeedEvil> If you're over wifi, you don't really need to do compression.
May 10 21:57:19 <pavelm2> ...that's not permitted by law for handheld device. IIRC.
May 10 21:57:19 <SpeedEvil> Gartral: BT keyboards are smaller.
May 10 21:57:38 <pavelm2> gartral: I have zaurus already.
May 10 21:57:54 <balrog-kun> mjr: yes, i just thought it was mostly the same protocol because i was usually seeing "EDGE/GPRS" devices and not "GPRS only"
May 10 21:59:01 <pavelm2> balrog: Unfortunately I see "gprs only" a lot.
May 10 21:59:25 <mjr> pavelm2, it isn't now? curious :]
May 10 21:59:53 <mjr> (I wonder why wouldn't it be)
May 10 22:00:15 <mjr> (and in which country)
May 10 22:00:25 <mjr> ah well, gotta sleep, cheers
May 10 22:00:35 <Gartral> what type of marketing outlets are you targeting?
May 10 22:00:37 <pavelm2> mjr: 4 slots up is 1W of power
May 10 22:00:40 <mjr> hope to hear news from the manufacturing run tomorrow ;)
May 10 22:00:45 <Mandarino> Hi
May 10 22:00:50 <pavelm2> mjr: 1mm from your ear.
May 10 22:00:51 <Mandarino> some news from Sean?
May 10 22:00:54 <SpeedEvil> Gartral: anyone that'll sell them and not lock them down too hard AIUI.
May 10 22:01:05 <SpeedEvil> Gartral: That part hasn't really been worked out yet.
May 10 22:01:10 <SpeedEvil> Gartral: web store ATM.
May 10 22:01:12 <Gartral> ohhh
May 10 22:01:18 <Gartral> AIUI?
May 10 22:01:24 <SpeedEvil> As I Understand It.
May 10 22:01:26 <hads> Google?
May 10 22:01:29 <Gartral> ahhh
May 10 22:01:37 <Gartral> LOL
May 10 22:01:44 <mjr> pavelm2, pretty much only case you'd be holding it to your ear while doing heavy upload would be using VOIP. Over GPRS.
May 10 22:02:02 <balrog-kun> well, GPRS is not so bad for mobile internet
May 10 22:02:15 <pavelm2> mjr: This is what I seem to remember. I only ever seen 4+4 configuration for non-handheld devices.
May 10 22:02:30 <mjr> though I suppose push-to-talk would be a case where you'd be exposed to it
May 10 22:02:31 * balrog-kun had only GPRS at home for two months after moving, it was bad but it was usable
May 10 22:02:46 <SpeedEvil> Any internet beats none.
May 10 22:02:55 <mjr> balrog-kun, yeah, that's the beauty of it. It's in the "usable" range and available.
May 10 22:02:57 <pavelm2> mjr: Plus, at 4+2, nokia gets pretty hot in the pocket.
May 10 22:02:59 <Gartral> true
May 10 22:03:37 <pavelm2> mjr: Plus, in 4+2 config, battery lasts 1:30 on nokia 6230
May 10 22:03:48 <mjr> pavelm2, ah well. I dunno about regs, but the chip does seem to be class 12. Don't know if FIC have checked around every country's law on that point...
May 10 22:03:55 <balrog-kun> can you make calls when a GPRS connection is up on one modem?
May 10 22:04:08 <mjr> balrog-kun, yes, but GPRS will be suspended for that time
May 10 22:04:10 <pavelm2> mjr: At that's certainly _not_ at maximum power setting. It is probably at 0.02W, not at 2W.
May 10 22:04:12 <Elrond> pavelm2 - I'll try to investigate the usbhost thingy more. :)
May 10 22:04:13 <balrog-kun> the modem i had was a pcmcia card so there was no ways to call from it
May 10 22:04:28 <pavelm2> elrond: If you tell me what kernel to test, I can do it ;-)
May 10 22:05:07 <Elrond> pavelm2 - I doubt it's really somewhere in the kernel, or if, it's there for ages already.
May 10 22:05:09 <balrog-kun> i will have to bother my brother again to give me the SIM on which the cheap GPRS is enabled :)
May 10 22:05:11 <pavelm2> any news about GPS? Anything I could do to get it to work?
May 10 22:05:20 <mjr> pavelm2, sure it slurps power when used, but it's not like it's essentially different wrt. bytes/watt
May 10 22:05:42 <pavelm2> elrond: It probably needs to be enabled in config, and that's it.
May 10 22:05:44 <Elrond> pavelm2 - No news on gps either. Last info is, that something in the power_up-sequence is still b0rked.
May 10 22:05:48 <mjr> anyway, one supposes if that's an issue, it can be limited in software
May 10 22:05:56 <Gartral> can the machine run xawtv?
May 10 22:06:04 <pavelm2> mjr: it probably is not a big issue.
May 10 22:06:15 <Elrond> pavelm2 - config and runtime. The S3C2410 can only do one of host or client at a time.
May 10 22:06:16 <pavelm2> mjr: Otoh, if we run battery down it 10 minutes... it might burn someone ;-)
May 10 22:06:19 <balrog-kun> wouldn't the USB host need a separate plug from the slave?
May 10 22:06:26 <balrog-kun> afaik there's only one plug on the Neo
May 10 22:06:28 <pavelm2> balrog: No.
May 10 22:06:46 <balrog-kun> pavelm2: there are separate pins on the processor for slave and host USB
May 10 22:06:57 <Hopscotch> balrog-kun: nope
May 10 22:07:03 <Hopscotch> balrog-kun: these are two ports
May 10 22:07:04 <mjr> balrog-kun, no, there are separate pins for a slave and a slave/host
May 10 22:07:10 <balrog-kun> i think you would have to disable one to get the other to work then, if they are just wired to the same plug
May 10 22:07:11 <Hopscotch> balrog-kun: one can be either host or device
May 10 22:07:17 <mjr> the outside port is the slave/host one
May 10 22:07:20 <Hopscotch> balrog-kun: the second can only be the second root port of the host
May 10 22:07:24 <pavelm2> balrog: Yes, but it can be somehow multiplexed into one usb slot. Its called USB OTG.
May 10 22:07:27 <mjr> the inside, AFAIK, goes to the Bluetooth module at present
May 10 22:07:29 <balrog-kun> mjr: ah i see
May 10 22:07:37 <mjr> pavelm2, Neo doesn't actually do OTG
May 10 22:07:52 <Hopscotch> afaik s3c24xx can't do otg
May 10 22:08:02 <mjr> correct
May 10 22:08:04 <balrog-kun> pavelm2: then you probably need to suspend the USB slave part to get USB host to work
May 10 22:08:23 <balrog-kun> right, i know OMAP has a separate module for OTG
May 10 22:08:26 <mjr> balrog-kun, yes, you need to change the port's mode programmatically
May 10 22:08:28 <pavelm2> balrog: Yes, that's probably right.
May 10 22:08:32 <balrog-kun> and S3C doesn't have that, it has slave and it has host
May 10 22:08:52 <Hopscotch> and it has a bit to chose to which the one port is connected
May 10 22:09:35 <balrog-kun> Hopscotch: is that supposed to be steered by software?
May 10 22:09:45 <balrog-kun> the bit that switches the port from slave to host i mean
May 10 22:10:04 <Elrond> Yes, one needs to switch the usb thing from device to host.
May 10 22:10:15 <balrog-kun> frankly i haven't seen any such bit in the S3C2410 registers
May 10 22:10:16 <Elrond> Which probably means disabling the complete usb stack in the kernel.
May 10 22:10:47 <Elrond> balrog-kun - That bit exists, the device/host switch is on the feature list of the data sheet.
May 10 22:11:06 <balrog-kun> i may have overlooked it
May 10 22:11:40 <Hopscotch> balrog-kun: i have programmed that bit on the tomtom go
May 10 22:11:48 <Hopscotch> balrog-kun: it is there - trust us :)
May 10 22:11:56 <mjr> heh :)
May 10 22:12:10 <Hopscotch> balrog-kun: afair it's not in the usb registers - it's somewhere in the system setup registers
May 10 22:12:14 <Elrond> Okay, so where is that bit in the kernel?
May 10 22:12:31 <Hopscotch> Elrond: should be somewhere in the drivers of course
May 10 22:12:43 <balrog-kun> i'm just saying i didn't see anywhere USB host and USB slave mentioned in a single sentence, the USB slave is one chapter and OHCI is a separate chapter
May 10 22:12:53 <Hopscotch> right
May 10 22:12:54 <rtp> Elrond: look for misccr register
May 10 22:13:08 <Hopscotch> right, that's it
May 10 22:13:14 <Elrond> rtp - Is it exported to userspace?
May 10 22:13:23 <rtp> Elrond: iirc no
May 10 22:13:50 <mjr> talked to a guy from Nokia, he said to expect most even self-powered USB devices to not work with an unpowered host :I (you know, their tablets have the same kind of deal with the USB)
May 10 22:14:00 <rtp> Elrond: but there's a patch for that : http://svn.openmoko.org/trunk/src/target/kernel/patches/s3c2410-usb-switch.patch
May 10 22:14:20 <SpeedEvil> mjr: As an exhaustive sample, the 2/2 devices I tested (printer and USB hub) diddn't.
May 10 22:14:21 <Hopscotch> mjr: true - but a hacked usb hub can do the trick
May 10 22:14:22 <Elrond> rtp - HUh!
May 10 22:14:26 <mjr> seems a bother to have to inject power even to talk to a camera... will probably have to go to a camera store with a Neo and try if some model will talk to it direct nevertheless ;P
May 10 22:14:31 <Elrond> rtp - Is that patch included in the default build
May 10 22:14:33 <Elrond> ?
May 10 22:14:45 <rtp> Elrond: no idea. Sorry
May 10 22:14:56 <Elrond> rtp - I can find out on my own. :-)
May 10 22:15:00 <Hopscotch> sooner or later there will be some gui checkbox for that i guess
May 10 22:15:13 <mjr> SpeedEvil, yeah, with all the talk of powered hubs, I kinda expected that they'd generally at least work, but apparently hacking is needed
May 10 22:15:47 <Hopscotch> some hubs use the power-input as host detection (which is badly broken, but easy to implement)
May 10 22:15:57 <eyowin> some mokoguys on linxtag?
May 10 22:16:00 <mjr> it's not broken really
May 10 22:16:12 <mjr> just not flexible outside the spec
May 10 22:16:20 <Hopscotch> hehe :)
May 10 22:16:24 <SpeedEvil> The Belkin Tetrahub, for example.
May 10 22:16:34 <SpeedEvil> It only needs +5V for a moment.
May 10 22:16:40 <SpeedEvil> But it needs it to detect a host.
May 10 22:16:43 <mjr> since the spec requires power from the host, waiting for power before starting to talk is clearly not broken
May 10 22:16:59 <mjr> yeah
May 10 22:17:00 <Hopscotch> hmmm... true...
May 10 22:17:36 <SpeedEvil> Can someone do me a favour with their neo - if they happen to have a multimeter? Measure the voltage between the shield connector and the middle two connectors of a USB cable when plugged into the neo.
May 10 22:17:41 <balrog-kun> okay, right, there's the bit called USBPAD in the MISCCR register (part of gpio module)
May 10 22:17:50 <mjr> one would wish though that people would make devices that are more flexible with the spec, considering unpowered gadgets have been available for a bit and more are coming (the nokia tablets already there, neos apparently, probably others)
May 10 22:18:06 <SpeedEvil> More flexible without the spec can bite you badly.
May 10 22:18:11 <SpeedEvil> as in outside the spec
May 10 22:18:43 <pavelm2> mjr: It is neo/n800 that are broken, not the other devices.
May 10 22:18:44 * SpeedEvil is wondering what the voltages are, and if they can be used to trigger a USB power hub.
May 10 22:18:45 <mjr> I don't see how it can bite you to agree to talk without receiving current
May 10 22:18:55 <SpeedEvil> mjr: I'm just talking generally.
May 10 22:19:07 <mjr> pavelm2, that's pretty much what I've said now, isn't it?
May 10 22:19:10 <Elrond> rtp, pavelm2 - Okay... the switch patch is not fully done yet. It misses some "switch pullup-thingies". ;-)
May 10 22:19:13 <balrog-kun> mjr: most digital cameras and PDAs are such devices afaik
May 10 22:19:37 <pavelm2> actually, it should not need a checkbox. You can detect cable type. That's why mini connector has 5 pins.
May 10 22:20:06 <Nebukadneza> hi
May 10 22:20:08 <mjr> balrog-kun, quite possible, using SoCs like this...
May 10 22:20:08 <Nebukadneza> count
May 10 22:20:11 <Nebukadneza> counter
May 10 22:20:12 <Elrond> pavelm2 - The neo needs software switching, as "detecting the cable type" is halfway OTG ;o)
May 10 22:20:12 <aloril> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 : >= 2007-05-10 (uncertainty is a optimistic guess) P1: 4 days 01:39:45 (4.069 +-3.5 days) (1142;199)
May 10 22:21:09 <don-o> can the P1+latest_openmoko make a phone call? last i heard (a month ago) the dialer app had problems
May 10 22:22:18 <Elrond> don-o - I've heard a few people talking about doing something like a call, but I don't remember details. Wait a week for more P1 people.
May 10 22:22:36 <pavelm2> don-o: where can be latest_openmoko downloaded?
May 10 22:22:43 <pavelm2> don-o: I'd love to test that ;-).
May 10 22:22:48 <don-o> pavelm2: heh :)
May 10 22:23:12 <Elrond> pavelm2 - wiki: "Flashing openmoko" Just don't update u-boot if you have a P1.
May 10 22:23:15 <don-o> its exciting that finally, somebody is getting P1 units even if it isnt me.
May 10 22:23:34 <mjr> it is nice
May 10 22:23:52 * mjr ordered a mini bluetooth keyboard already
May 10 22:24:04 <don-o> mrj: woah, got a url for that?
May 10 22:24:10 <mjr> (usb isn't really needed anyway ;)
May 10 22:24:13 <webjames> mjr, what keyboard is that?
May 10 22:25:26 <webjames> mjr, and does it work? i was looking at the credit card keyboard featured on the wiki
May 10 22:25:27 <pavelm2> elrond: Yes, if you add few sentences to "flashing" article, you'll probably save quite a few people ;-)
May 10 22:26:16 <mjr> spesifically I decided to forego the more exotic ones for now and ordered this: http://www.spartechnik.de/start.htm?d_Keyb_Mini_Mini_Bluetooth_Keyboard_im_Scheckkartenformat.htm
May 10 22:26:52 <Elrond> pavelm2 - You can edit also, can't you?
May 10 22:26:59 <mjr> webjames, the wiki credit card keyboard didn't seem to support HID (used the serial profile), so I was wary... This one is BT HID, so "should" work
May 10 22:27:14 <pavelm2> elrond: But I'm lazy ;-)
May 10 22:27:14 <mjr> of course, you can make a serial profile keyboard work too
May 10 22:27:20 <don-o> mjr: oh my god thats cool.
May 10 22:27:26 <mjr> but I want to be able to play sopwith with it ;)
May 10 22:27:39 <mjr> and serial profile won't do multiple keys ;)
May 10 22:27:54 <mjr> can't talk experiences here, since I haven't received it
May 10 22:27:58 <Elrond> pavelm2 - hehe. :-) I'll kick hrw (who should have a P1 soon) to update the article for P1. :-)
May 10 22:28:47 <Elrond> pavelm2 - Which probably just adds another line for the correct u-boot for phase 1 (the download link has images for P1, but I don't want to edit this part without someone testin it for real.
May 10 22:29:06 <LarstiQ> mjr: interesting keyboard
May 10 22:29:30 <pavelm2> elrond: I modified it... flashing uboot should not be neccessary for phase1.
May 10 22:30:08 <pavelm2> elrond: hopefully uboot is no longer fatally buggy.
May 10 22:30:12 <mjr> oh yeah, I was supposed to go to sleep
May 10 22:30:18 <mjr> 6 hours sleepy time left
May 10 22:30:25 <Elrond> pavelm2 - Probably not fataly buggy. :)
May 10 22:30:29 <mjr> bloody doc and their appointment timetables...
May 10 22:31:13 <Sufflope> just wondering, I saw some people talking about P1 devices on the road or what; there is no possible ordering yet, isn't there ?
May 10 22:31:31 <mjr> But yeah, the keyboard does seem nice enough from pics. Would've liked it to charge via USB too but I suppose I can manage 2xAAA changes once in a while...
May 10 22:31:33 <SpeedEvil> Sufflope: yes
May 10 22:31:35 <SpeedEvil> you can't.
May 10 22:31:47 <SpeedEvil> mjr: you can get very small USB AAA chargers.
May 10 22:32:03 <mjr> (the serial profile keyb would've charged from USB, but again, rather go HID)
May 10 22:32:14 <CoreDump|home> hi
May 10 22:32:19 <mjr> yeah
May 10 22:34:31 <Elrond> Hi CoreDump|home!
May 10 22:42:56 <CoreDump|home> One would think the OM guys would've managed to unb0rk u-boot by now...
May 10 22:43:26 <pavelm2> I need to get some sleep. Bye bye.
May 10 22:48:32 <eyowin> good n8 @ all
May 10 22:52:58 <webjames> yeah, night all
May 10 22:55:17 <Elrond> Night all. :-)
May 10 23:41:46 <Richard> Hi, how can I use keypad in qemu?
May 10 23:43:23 <balrog-kun> use the on-screen keyboard
May 10 23:46:32 <Richard> but I cannot se any on-screen keyboard,  there's only a qemu window, like a phone touch screen.
May 10 23:47:00 <aevin> any premature, unofficial news about the 10th May test production of Neo1973 handsets yet? ;-)
May 10 23:47:19 <aloril> (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Talk:Calendar]] [[Flashing_openmoko]]
May 10 23:47:52 <aevin> or is it a huge batch still in progress (for days), and too early to know anything yet?
May 10 23:49:36 <SpeedEvil> Who knows.
May 10 23:49:48 <SpeedEvil> We haven't even been told if it's 10 or 10 million.
May 10 23:49:48 <aevin> *catch up on the mailing lists instead*
May 10 23:50:38 <aevin> SpeedEvil: true. i guess we'll be informed when it's "time". they've been really open with us in the past, so they'll tell eventually. i just hope it turns out well, this time :-)
May 10 23:52:16 <balrog-kun> Richard: is there a grey rectangle on the top bar?
May 10 23:52:44 <balrog-kun> this is where the keyboard icon will be
May 10 23:53:09 <SpeedEvil> Hmm. Zigbee is getting interesting. http://www.freescale.com/webapp/sps/site/prod_summary.jsp?code=MC13211&nodeId=01J4Fs25657103
May 10 23:53:10 <SpeedEvil> oosp
May 10 23:53:12 <SpeedEvil> oops
May 10 23:53:42 <balrog-kun> click in the middle of the grey area to enable an on-screen keyboard (on the right of the grey area there will be a drop-down menu icon that lets you choose the input method - there are three to choose from - this should also work)
May 10 23:53:48 <balrog-kun> ok, i'm off
May 11 00:03:30 <neostrider> hello folks
May 11 00:03:46 <aevin> hi neostrider.
May 11 00:04:15 <neostrider> aevin, whats going on?
May 11 00:05:18 <aevin> not much. i'm reading the OM community mailing list. currently at Sun JavaFx thread ( http://news.gmane.org/gmane.comp.handhelds.openmoko.community ) in relation to this article http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/sfgate/detail?blogid=19&entry_id=16310
May 11 00:06:27 <aevin> neostrider: what about you? waiting for a phase-1 device?
May 11 00:07:28 <neostrider> not really
May 11 00:07:36 <neostrider> im actually a Maemo developer
May 11 00:07:49 <neostrider> I just want to make sure my games works under openmoko too
May 11 00:08:06 <neostrider> r u a developer?
May 11 00:09:51 <aevin> I'm planning to contribute as a phase-1 dev, but I'm not into any particular FOSS project.
May 11 00:10:55 <neostrider> do you have a installed SDK?
May 11 00:10:58 <aevin> atm, I'm too tied up with finishing my M.Sc thesis, so it's actually kind of alright that the Neo1973 has been delayed...
May 11 00:11:45 <neostrider> (what ATM means?)
May 11 00:11:55 <neostrider> delays?
May 11 00:11:58 <neostrider> delayed?
May 11 00:12:00 <neostrider> why?
May 11 00:12:03 <neostrider> to when?!
May 11 00:12:09 <neostrider> (I WANT ONE!)
May 11 00:12:13 <aevin> I did, but my laptop's HD got full and I needed the space for other things, so I uninstalled it while waiting till I get more spare time.
May 11 00:12:17 <aevin> atm = at the moment.
May 11 00:12:47 <SpeedEvil> It's possible they'll be buyable in a week.
May 11 00:13:10 <aevin> neostrider: well, the phase 1 was originally supposed to launch -- was it january 2007? -- then delayed to feb, april, june ...
May 11 00:13:26 <SpeedEvil> Not june yet.
May 11 00:13:27 <aevin> well, at least mid-May
May 11 00:13:28 <aevin> :)
May 11 00:13:32 <SpeedEvil> Unless you know something.
May 11 00:13:40 <neostrider> i see
May 11 00:14:16 <aevin> I'll deliver my thesis by 19. june, so by getting one before then would only be a painful distraction. 
May 11 00:14:26 <DukeOfURL> With the case closed, is there room for a daughter board in the JTAG socket?
May 11 00:15:40 <aevin> SpeedEvil: no, I don't know anything :-)
May 11 00:16:13 <neostrider> aevin: whats the theme of your master thesis?
May 11 00:17:17 <aevin> but I guess they'll to a QA iteration with testing and perhaps minor revision of the production process of the 10th May batch before hitting the next planned at 20th May, so I would be positively surprised if "mid May" would mean anything earlier than 20th.
May 11 00:18:00 <SpeedEvil> DukeOfURL: sort-of.
May 11 00:18:17 <SpeedEvil> DukeOfURL: AIUI, you might get a tiny flex-PCB in there.
May 11 00:18:18 <SpeedEvil> However.
May 11 00:18:31 <SpeedEvil> There are reported solderable SPI pins.
May 11 00:18:37 <SpeedEvil> Which may be a better option.
May 11 00:19:55 <aevin> neostrider: it's about distributed power allocation and scheduling for multicell capacity gain in cellular networks, if that tells you anything :-/
May 11 00:20:19 <neostrider> kind-of =-P
May 11 00:21:20 <neostrider> mine is more trivial (as it is a graduation work yet): 3D rendering on plataforms with bad or no framebuffer direct access
May 11 00:21:21 <aevin> SpeedEvil: the SPI is easily accessible, or do you need surgeon hands and microscopic soldering tools?
May 11 00:21:34 <neostrider> (so everything must be done in vectors)
May 11 00:21:45 <aevin> you're CS major?
May 11 00:22:47 <neostrider> yup
May 11 00:23:10 <neostrider> i guess its BSC the correct name
May 11 00:24:17 <aevin> okay:)
May 11 00:25:22 <SpeedEvil> aevin: I haven't seen pics.
May 11 00:25:37 <SpeedEvil> It was supposed to be 'solderable to' IIRC
May 11 00:27:48 <aevin> okay, that sounds promising, even for my shaky hands.
May 11 00:28:08 <aevin> SpeedEvil: you mentioned zigbee, are you planning on adding it to the phone?
May 11 00:28:19 <aevin> or was it simply a paste error?
May 11 00:30:11 <SpeedEvil> paste error
May 11 00:31:20 <SpeedEvil> Though that chip is interesting - microcontroller and RF stage in one 9*9mm chip for $3, with multiple ADCs, GPIOs, ... all for around 30mA@3V transmit.
May 11 00:31:40 <SpeedEvil> But I don't have anything I want to control with zigbee.
May 11 00:52:57 <neostrider> see ya!
May 11 01:00:29 <aevin> SpeedEvil: yes, it's not that commonly used yet.
May 11 02:16:19 <aloril> (script) openmoko-neo1973: Harald Welte <laforge at openmoko.org> Re: jack 3.5mm
May 11 02:49:14 <aloril> hmm. no news yet
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Fri May 11 02:59:56 2007