**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat May 12 02:59:56 2007 May 12 03:10:38 Anyone alive here? May 12 03:10:39 Low-Fi: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) May 12 03:10:51 hi Low-Fi May 12 03:11:22 hi aloril - This is my first time in the channel... May 12 03:11:58 Is there a lot of dev talk here or general chat or what? May 12 03:12:32 both May 12 03:12:39 I'm interested in getting a dev unit but I thought I'd ask what everyone else thought first May 12 03:12:45 but right now its quiet ;-) May 12 03:12:54 counter May 12 03:12:54 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 : >= 2007-05-10 (uncertainty is a optimistic guess) P1: 3 days 04:23:32 (3.183 +-3.2 days) (1150;201) May 12 03:13:13 not yet really available :-( May 12 03:13:23 hopefully soon though May 12 03:13:35 Hmm didn't they originally say March? May 12 03:14:37 yes, there were hardware bugs and then there were screen availability problems: together delay until possibly next week May 12 03:15:07 I about killed my SE w600 today and I'm itching to get this thing... guess I need to find another gsm phone to get me by May 12 03:15:42 Any word on if it'll be functional as a phone out of the box? May 12 03:16:00 should be May 12 03:17:18 I noticed a strong resemblance to the new Helio Ocean, I wonder if anyone else noticed that May 12 03:24:58 Low-Fi: url for pics? May 12 03:25:08 h/o May 12 03:25:26 i got them :) never mind. May 12 03:25:41 http://www.engadget.com/2007/03/26/the-helio-ocean/ May 12 03:25:43 k May 12 03:25:48 that Ocean got buttons. lot's of them. May 12 03:26:21 yeah but if you took that away, there's a striking resemblance if ya ask me May 12 03:26:23 but when it's closed, I guess there's quite some resemblence, yes. May 12 03:27:03 that oval form. with the "ears" on both ends of the screen. May 12 03:27:41 yes May 12 03:28:09 i guess it wont be as hackable as the neo, so it's an easy choice for me :) May 12 03:28:14 Is there any external memory support (hardware wise) on the moko? May 12 03:28:30 SD card slot? May 12 03:28:54 there's one for mini-SD, i htink May 12 03:29:23 located underneath the battery though (if that's what you meant by "external") May 12 03:29:45 yeah thats good enough May 12 03:30:25 I can't decide if I want to jump on the initial bandwagon or wait till the hardware refresh May 12 03:31:36 if you can't make up your mind atm, don't worry. May 12 03:32:42 micro-SD May 12 03:32:55 there'll be more info about a possibly upgrade deal for early buyers when the sale starst, so there'll be more info around making it perhpas easier to decide then. May 12 03:33:10 4GB is untested yet, nobody has been able to buy one yet May 12 03:33:22 aloril: ah, yes. that's the name of the dog. i'm not that into the terminology. May 12 03:35:05 *plow through that huge homr-brew IR thread on the dev ML* May 12 04:31:16 Hi, How to convert .dot files to image files using dot? May 12 05:26:25 Hey there. May 12 05:30:37 hi bill_gates May 12 06:27:05 counter May 12 06:27:06 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 : >= 2007-05-10 (uncertainty is a optimistic guess) P1: 3 days 02:46:26 (3.116 +-3.1 days) (1151;201) May 12 07:59:13 hi May 12 08:03:05 good morning May 12 08:03:17 morning :) May 12 08:03:52 hewwo May 12 08:04:56 morning May 12 08:07:47 morning May 12 08:15:35 Hi May 12 08:58:18 * CoreDump|home cheers at TRIsoft May 12 08:58:34 DHL was here a few minutes ago =) May 12 08:59:19 Nice. Looks like you'll have some fun for the weekend ;-) May 12 08:59:24 indeed May 12 09:08:51 grats coredump May 12 09:09:10 noidd: thanks May 12 09:10:37 I left my G4 at work "charging" May 12 09:11:03 I may have to do the hour and a half drive to go retrieve it May 12 09:11:09 :\ May 12 09:11:21 I was having charging issues the last few days. May 12 09:11:31 My notebook resets the USB ports randomly while charging neo :\ May 12 09:11:34 probably because I couldn't leave it alone long enough for it to get a full charge :-D May 12 09:15:10 I need to change the uboot setting for charging is what i need to do May 12 09:15:17 anyways - gotta finish that build machine May 12 09:15:20 ho hum May 12 09:19:42 has anybody of you with a device ever had a gps lock? May 12 09:20:32 there is no GPS driver yet, so I really doubt it May 12 09:21:13 on the p1 is a directory DM2 in /root which contains the gllin May 12 09:21:18 right May 12 09:21:30 and the 'DM' apps has a GPS test field May 12 09:22:36 but uboot on my p1 doesn't erase NAND properly when reflashing, so I need to fix that first before continueing the gps efforts May 12 09:23:05 ah, so you're working on gps then? May 12 09:24:00 yes May 12 09:24:22 ah, ok May 12 09:24:23 but I first wanted to get rid of that buggy piece of crap that's called 'official firmware' May 12 09:24:29 :) May 12 09:24:40 yeah, i need to rebuild the dev environment as well May 12 09:28:35 koen - The images have those DM apps? May 12 09:28:51 afaik now not May 12 09:28:59 but that's where 'tar' comes in May 12 09:29:09 Huh? May 12 09:31:46 hmm May 12 09:31:52 i don't think gps does work May 12 09:31:58 Elrond: The image that came pre-installed on P1 had the DM stuff, the regular images do not May 12 09:32:34 can the DM stuff be downloaded somewhere? May 12 09:33:24 not unless someone uploads it first =) May 12 09:34:00 and the license on it is unknown? May 12 09:34:23 * balrog-kun would like to compare how it runs in the emulator May 12 09:36:45 * CoreDump|home has no idea about the license but he doubts that P1 was supposed to ship with these apps May 12 09:37:00 <_buz> Reuters reported that the handset Nokia 1100 has claimed the title of the most popular device throughout the history of consumer electronics: since its official launch in 2003, more than 200 million units have been sold world-wide May 12 09:37:03 <_buz> thats quite a mark to beat ;) May 12 09:37:18 i don't think that the hardware testapp will do anything useful in the emu May 12 09:37:20 impressive May 12 09:38:38 <_buz> fic definitely needs a cheap lowend moko device ;) May 12 09:38:52 <_buz> the 100$ neo ;) May 12 09:39:23 Hopscotch: it would be useful for me to point me out places where the emulator needs more work May 12 09:39:33 <_buz> (which then goes on sale at 175$ of coursE) May 12 09:39:55 hmmm... true... May 12 09:40:03 * CoreDump|home plays "Free Your Zaurus" May 12 09:40:19 but i signed the nda and i guess it would not be a good idea to upload the stuff without asking someone from core first May 12 09:43:13 that's no problem, already resolved :) May 12 09:45:35 I want a $100 neo. May 12 09:46:13 b+w 256*256 display, numpad + joystick, GSM, SD slot May 12 09:46:55 The nk1100 is an awesome device. May 12 09:51:16 SpeedEvil - I could imagine something like that coming up. The neo was probably designed for geeks. They love (as most humans are eye centric) nice displays (and I guess, that's one of the expensive parts of the Neo). ;-) May 12 09:51:27 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Buying_Interest_List]] May 12 09:53:09 <_buz> the problem is tha tmost software probably wont run on 256pixel very well May 12 09:53:19 True - ATM. May 12 09:56:51 * koen slimmed down his neo: http://www.flickr.com/photos/koenkooi/494571426/ May 12 09:57:25 s/slimmed down/uglyfied ;) May 12 09:58:09 <_buz> that screen amazes me everytime i see a photo May 12 09:58:35 _buz - Yeah. May 12 09:59:09 koen - What is the cable going to the right? May 12 09:59:23 _buz: The screen is an absolute dream May 12 09:59:26 the cable to the GPS antenna May 12 09:59:48 the picture is rotated 90 degrees :) May 12 10:00:01 koen: V3 or V4? May 12 10:00:15 If it's V4, can we have a close-up of the back of the PCB ? May 12 10:01:39 v3 May 12 10:01:51 i always thought that the 1100 was a good idea, but i never knew how popular is was! May 12 10:02:29 o_O the -moko9 kernels still report -moko8 through "uname -r" May 12 10:02:53 balrog-kun: see my remarks about buggy crap called openmoko svn May 12 10:03:06 *nods* May 12 10:03:17 balrog-kun: in OE .dev I keep the .config in sync with the correct moko May 12 10:03:25 koen: come on, it ain't _that_ bad May 12 10:03:26 koen - Did you get anywhere using the dm apps and the gps? May 12 10:03:36 * SpeedEvil just had a sick thought about http://www.flickr.com/photos/koenkooi/484794830/in/set-72157600179046517/ , the above neo pic, and http://www.instructables.com/id/EM1O9XJF0YPF7M5/ May 12 10:03:59 heh May 12 10:04:09 the rats are a big big to serve as a mouse May 12 10:04:35 No. Think TeleTubby. May 12 10:05:29 * balrog-kun never heard the singular of "TeleTubbies" before May 12 10:07:37 koen - Did you get anywhere using the dm apps and the gps? May 12 10:07:57 not yet May 12 10:08:19 So the power_up sequence is still borked? May 12 10:08:48 no, uboot is broken May 12 10:08:50 *again* May 12 10:09:08 Huh, what's the relation between u-boot and the gps? May 12 10:09:28 I wanted to flash a sane image instead of that broken crap it came with May 12 10:09:43 having every app segfault is not good May 12 10:09:52 yuck. May 12 10:11:20 koen - The standard images on the buildhost are also b0rked? May 12 10:11:33 dunno May 12 10:11:34 some one can help me? May 12 10:11:42 or rather "most likely" May 12 10:11:53 since buildhost still uses that crappy svn overlay May 12 10:11:54 where are pot files? May 12 10:11:56 Herod2k - just ask and hope. May 12 10:12:02 asd May 12 10:12:23 Herod2k - Hmm, you checked the Trnaslation HOWTO on the wiki? May 12 10:12:35 yes May 12 10:12:56 I never looked into translation at all. I just hoped the HOWTO would be any good. May 12 10:13:14 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Translation_HOWTO May 12 10:13:17 this.. May 12 10:13:23 Yep, that. May 12 10:13:32 First of all package creator/maintainer have to create *.pot file with all messages included. Search for this files in source tree and you can edit them. May 12 10:14:06 ok Elrond May 12 10:14:14 thanks May 12 10:15:48 Herod2k - Hmm, I guess, you have to use the gettext-tools to extract a *.pot from the sources yourself. Could that be possible? May 12 10:16:48 I don't know May 12 10:16:53 i can try May 12 10:18:00 Hmm, I just on "good luck" chedked the sources of openmoko-today... I couldn't find any tagged strings. May 12 10:19:50 Ahh, the rssreaders has some strings tagged. May 12 10:22:24 I'm downloading OpenMoko sources from svn May 12 10:22:26 Yep, the rssreader has some strings. May 12 10:22:30 Hi ossman May 12 10:22:57 morning May 12 10:23:03 hi ossman May 12 10:23:14 yo :) May 12 10:23:17 cheerful bunch May 12 10:32:13 out of curiosity does someone remember roughly what transfer rates they get when scp'ing files to the neo over usb? May 12 10:32:19 has anyone poked greg about adding the debug board id to the ftdi_sio driver? May 12 10:41:56 nice, they included the "berry_charge" module in the modules tarball :) May 12 11:21:31 openmoko: 03laforge * r1949 10/trunk/src/target/u-boot/patches/uboot-s3c2440.patch: S3C2440/SMDK2440/HXD8: to support resume logic (Matt Hsu) May 12 11:22:29 morning May 12 11:22:44 hey rwhitby-n800 May 12 11:22:54 yoyoyo May 12 11:23:22 morning XorA May 12 11:23:34 * rwhitby-n800 is in HK airport May 12 11:23:51 rwhitby-n800: cool! May 12 11:24:21 rwhitby-n800: sneaking in to steal some P1 phones? May 12 11:24:58 on the way back home May 12 11:25:35 (where my P1 is waiting) May 12 11:26:37 gadget shopping at HK airport is pathetic May 12 11:30:08 balrog-kun: i get exactly 700kbyte/s May 12 11:33:34 rwhitby-n800: why is that? May 12 11:34:30 can't even buy a n800 here - had to get it in London May 12 11:43:56 Hopscotch: not bad May 12 11:44:25 i'm getting only 120kbytes/s in the emulator on a 2.4 GHz cpu May 12 11:44:38 much more is not possible with usb1.1 May 12 11:47:39 rwhitby-n800, I assume the n800 can connect to the net via bluetooth/openmoko? May 12 11:48:04 should be so May 12 11:48:48 rwhitby-n800, thx May 12 11:48:58 Just requires OpenMoko to support BT DUN. Dunno if it does yet, but not a problem. May 12 11:50:34 It does support DUN - I've tested with a Treo650 May 12 11:50:46 * Hopscotch used his p1 to dial into a tomtom go May 12 11:50:51 works perfectly :) May 12 11:51:27 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[User:Ethiopia]] [[Translation]] May 12 11:51:34 good May 12 11:52:56 (still, for connecting OpenMoko to the network at large BNET is cleaner, but offering DUN service is clearly a must) May 12 11:53:10 rwhitby-n800, mjr, I looked up DUN on the openmoko wiki without results, thanks for the confirmation :) May 12 11:53:42 mjr: agreed May 12 11:54:42 Hopscotch, oh? So you're supposed to be able to make calls on it? May 12 11:55:23 ossman: well - dun-calls into opentom, yes May 12 11:55:52 from the console, or is the gui supposed to work? May 12 11:55:59 no gui - console only May 12 11:56:02 ah May 12 11:56:03 :) May 12 11:56:06 mjr, what's BNET? (google is kinda polluted on this word :) May 12 11:56:10 * ossman hasn't gotten that far yet May 12 11:56:34 ossman: just connect the phone to your pc's usb May 12 11:56:43 ossman: and type "ifconfig usb0 192.168.0.200 up" May 12 11:56:49 guerby, it's wlanish except over bluetooth May 12 11:56:54 ossman: after that ssh root@192.168.0.202 May 12 11:56:57 password is empty :) May 12 11:57:00 Hopscotch, it's from lack of time, not lack of trying :) May 12 11:57:06 guerby, (whereas BT DUN is PPP over a BT link) May 12 11:57:11 ossman: ah, ok :) May 12 11:57:40 mjr, advantage is more efficient bandwidth use, or simpler to setup or both? May 12 11:58:13 and actually, sorry, BNEP May 12 11:59:23 should be a bit more efficient, but mostly interesting is that it uses ethernet encapsulation May 12 11:59:27 setups are a matter of software really in any case May 12 11:59:34 mjr, ah ok google looks better now :) May 12 11:59:43 I mostly like it better because it's conceptually cleaner :] May 12 11:59:45 so you can add it to a bridge like wlan May 12 11:59:52 Hopscotch, yeah May 12 12:35:02 gtg cu May 12 12:36:24 lumdidum May 12 12:47:39 note to future self: Never ever try to gzip 6Gb on a Zaurus ever again May 12 12:48:07 CoreDump|home: Use bzip - smaller. May 12 12:48:18 yeah right May 12 12:48:33 but would probably take a year or so May 12 12:48:52 its gzip'ping for ~2hrs now May 12 12:50:36 * CoreDump|home should have zeroed the empty space on the hdd.... May 12 12:50:55 Do it now. May 12 12:51:05 Or is it an image backup? May 12 12:51:09 In which case, don't. May 12 12:51:52 it is May 12 13:15:08 woglinde - BTW: Any result on your charger research? May 12 13:38:16 counter May 12 13:38:17 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 : >= 2007-05-10 (uncertainty is a optimistic guess) P1: 2 days 23:10:50 (2.966 +-3.0 days) (1152;201) May 12 13:40:04 Is the SIM card identifier called the "IMSI"? May 12 13:40:18 no, that's the phone identifier May 12 13:40:25 isn't there something like IMSI catcher? May 12 13:40:41 used to track down mobiles? May 12 13:41:08 what abour "ICCID"? May 12 13:41:30 s/abour/about/ May 12 13:41:31 DukeOfURL meant: what about "ICCID"? May 12 13:42:01 seems that i was talking trash May 12 13:42:07 it's stored in the sim May 12 13:42:30 does current kernel correctly detect the SD card size? May 12 13:43:18 ~praise netcat May 12 13:43:25 is there a GSM AT command to retrieve the SIM identifier? May 12 13:43:30 All hail netcat! May 12 13:46:47 * rwhitby-n800 tests gizmo on n800 May 12 13:51:27 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Wish_List]] [[Wishlist:Silent_mode_timeout]] [[OpenMoko_compatible_cellphone_providers]] May 12 13:54:00 DukeOfURL: IMSI is for SIM, IMEI is for Mobile Equipment May 12 13:55:07 is there an AT command to retrieve IMSI? May 12 13:56:03 I need to know if the user has replaced the SIM card in the Neo... May 12 13:56:22 DukeOfURL: no idea, thats a google question :-) May 12 13:57:11 I see an AT command that locks a SIM card to the device, but I don't know if I want to go that far. May 12 13:57:45 AT+CIMI? May 12 13:59:14 XorA: yes! May 12 13:59:18 thx May 12 13:59:29 http://www.westermo.com/dman/Document.phx/Manuals/GSM/GD+AT+commands+manual+ENG.pdf?folderId=%2FManuals%2FGSM&cmd=download May 12 14:00:42 XorA: what is the GD-01? May 12 14:01:13 bugger knows, and there is a GSM spec detailing all the commands, but that was the first sensible hit I got on google May 12 14:02:11 can we assume the TI calypso? or do other GSM chips use a similar AT command set? May 12 14:02:46 as I said they all use variations on same GSM spec May 12 14:03:51 http://www.ctiforum.com/standard/standard/etsi/0707.pdf I think May 12 14:12:03 Annex E shows a very non-trivial voice/data alternation. YIKES! May 12 14:14:49 openmoko: 03andrew * r1950 10/trunk/src/host/qemu-neo1973/ (14 files in 4 dirs): Take into account some Bv3 -> Bv4 changes (aim for Bv4 compatibility now). Make the USBPAD bit verbose. May 12 15:30:22 AmĂşn! May 12 15:31:01 Hi Mandarino May 12 15:31:55 somebody wants bet for the day of Phase 1.5 ? ;P May 12 15:32:16 * hrw cant May 12 15:33:04 *lol* May 12 15:35:04 so the day is set May 12 15:35:14 now we must kidnap and torture hrw ;) May 12 15:35:20 xDDD May 12 15:35:21 haha May 12 15:35:21 counter May 12 15:35:22 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 : >= 2007-05-10 (uncertainty is a optimistic guess) P1: 2 days 22:12:18 (2.925 +-2.9 days) (1153;201) May 12 15:35:25 buz: it is not set May 12 15:35:33 then why cant you bet May 12 15:35:49 I want to drive the kidnap car :P May 12 15:36:07 lol May 12 15:36:07 re May 12 15:36:08 I vote for kidnap, and feed cookies. May 12 15:36:19 until he goes boom May 12 15:36:34 i hope you know that hrw is deeply into s&m :) May 12 15:36:53 in that case we will simply take p1 from him May 12 15:36:57 that should go some way May 12 15:37:04 buz: I know more then normal developers so... May 12 15:37:19 ah, this is not laforge May 12 15:37:20 sorry :) May 12 15:37:21 well at least you're being fair ;) May 12 15:37:43 *wirr* May 12 15:39:01 * hrw goes out - cu May 12 15:39:56 The p1.5 date anyone knows is wrong by pi/2 anyway. ;o) May 12 15:51:27 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[OpenMoko_under_QEMU]] May 12 15:52:22 if it's pi/2 days thats good enough May 12 15:52:26 now if its years... May 12 16:19:07 openmoko: 03andrew * r1951 10/trunk/src/host/qemu-neo1973/hw/ (neo1973.c s3c.h s3c2410.c): Implement the S3C2410 watchdog timer. Clean-up the machine reset code and make it work. May 12 17:38:45 counter May 12 17:38:46 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 : >= 2007-05-10 (uncertainty is a optimistic guess) P1: 2 days 21:10:36 (2.882 +-2.9 days) (1154;201) May 12 17:56:29 koen - Can you put http://www.flickr.com/photos/koenkooi/494571426/ in the openmoko pool? May 12 18:02:49 Neo1973 looks like the perfect size for a side-ways thumb keyboard May 12 18:04:49 What is the current input method in OpenMoko? May 12 18:05:30 onscreen keyboard with stylus or finger based May 12 18:06:13 Nebukadneza - does the finger based thing work yet? May 12 18:06:21 dunno ;P May 12 18:06:26 i'm waiting for p1 :P May 12 18:07:04 Finger based keyboard maybe be kinda cramped holding the Neo vertical May 12 18:08:26 It would be perfect horizontally, though May 12 18:14:23 poffy_ - The neo can be used horizontally. May 12 18:14:57 I know. But is finger keyboard input planned to be horizontal? May 12 18:15:44 poffy_ - No idea. May 12 18:15:46 poffy_ - http://www.flickr.com/photos/ph5/417853278/in/photostream/ May 12 18:16:15 Sweet May 12 18:16:34 It uses the touchscreen in place of a mouse, right? May 12 18:16:43 The mouse driver is replaced by the touchscreen driver, in the kernel? May 12 18:17:17 poffy_ - basicly yes. May 12 18:17:32 Awesome May 12 18:17:41 poffy_ - 2.6 has a generic input event thingy. So you could in theory connect a second mouse and use both. May 12 18:17:46 actually no, you just tell X11 to use a touchscreen instead of a mouse May 12 18:17:55 oh ok May 12 18:18:58 koen - Huh, is it really different to X11? May 12 18:19:04 yes May 12 18:19:23 for X11 apps it isn't different, but to the xserver it is May 12 18:19:37 Okay. May 12 18:19:53 since you need to signal recalibration, presure, etc May 12 18:19:58 for Kdrive + tslib yes, for normal Xorg 7.1 it wouldn't make a difference May 12 18:20:19 'normal' xorg doesn't even have a touchscreen driver :) May 12 18:20:43 Xorg 7.1 reads evdev devices that report absolute coordinates just fune May 12 18:20:45 *fine May 12 18:20:57 and ignores what it doesn't understand May 12 18:21:03 Wait... "pressure"? Do we get pressure? May 12 18:21:07 (i.e pressure, which tslib also doesn't use) May 12 18:39:41 * SpeedEvil adds information about another hardware delay to the wiki. May 12 18:39:56 The Gallileo positioning service got delayed till at least 2011. May 12 18:43:02 SpeedEvil: oh noes! May 12 18:44:22 A bit annoying - if it had gone up on schedule, and chipsets had been available, it'd have given considerably better performance in cities. May 12 18:44:29 (GPS + gallileo) May 12 18:51:00 The NEO has a GPS but what kind of navigation software runs on it? May 12 18:51:09 None. May 12 18:51:17 At the moment, it's just a raw GPS May 12 18:52:13 all navigation software that runs on linux runs on the Neo too May 12 18:52:42 Hope TomTom does make a port. May 12 18:52:53 counter May 12 18:52:53 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 : >= 2007-05-10 (uncertainty is a optimistic guess) P1: 2 days 20:33:32 (2.857 +-2.9 days) (1155;201) May 12 18:53:01 it'd be enough if they made it opensource May 12 18:53:06 SirCrow: according to the tomtom employee I spoke with "not likely" May 12 18:53:17 counter May 12 18:53:18 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 : >= 2007-05-10 (uncertainty is a optimistic guess) P1: 2 days 20:33:20 (2.856 +-2.9 days) (1156;201) May 12 18:53:36 wow, 12 seconds shorter May 12 18:54:21 it must be running like double or triple speed now May 12 18:54:42 koen, they prefer to sell hardware I think May 12 18:55:01 SirCrow: they sell TT for wince May 12 18:55:15 SirCrow: if the neo sells well, they'll consider doing a port May 12 18:55:19 i'm sure there will be better software available in some time, and opensource May 12 18:55:57 good software isn't the problem May 12 18:55:58 good maps are May 12 18:57:20 koen: I hope that Neo sells like hell. May 12 18:57:25 me too May 12 18:57:35 well, I hope the software improves like hell first May 12 18:58:06 not much sense in selling a gazillion neo's that can make a call May 12 18:58:17 koen: o is there a delay in development. May 12 18:59:06 not that I know off May 12 18:59:12 mhh hows the legality of taking maps from a wince licensed tomtom? May 12 18:59:41 i mean after all it comes with a map license May 12 18:59:50 buz, probably disallowed in tomtom license, enforcibility highly depends on jurisdiction May 12 19:00:07 around here its most certainly not enforcible May 12 19:00:10 also, AFAIK the maps are in proprietary encrypted format, but no personal experience May 12 19:00:29 well the encryption is probably as laughable as your average DRM scheme May 12 19:00:41 or even more so, considering that they run it mostly on "embedded" devices May 12 19:00:49 yeah, clauses like that are probably unenforcible in many places, and the DRM is probably possible to circumvent May 12 19:01:08 I remember seeing a parser for the tomtom maps somewhere May 12 19:01:16 but it still is kinda weird, one should convince one of the map vendors to sell just the maps May 12 19:01:32 buz: they are selling maps to everyone May 12 19:01:41 i mean endusers May 12 19:01:51 but you probably can't afford it :) May 12 19:01:59 thinking of it, you can actually buy maps for some apps individually May 12 19:02:16 i dont htink one could prevent you from using something that is sold individually May 12 19:02:22 not in any sane jurisdiction anyhow May 12 19:03:19 koen: got any idea on the pricing of hte apps? May 12 19:03:30 maps May 12 19:04:57 I suspect a few 100$ per square km May 12 19:06:08 50cm resolution satelite pictures are $50/km^2 iirc May 12 19:06:53 Hmm, garmin city navigator europe (33 countries) for 160 Euro. And I think, this is the .img format, which is now "documented". The normal license allows for using on two garmin devices... Jurisdication should probably allow for exchanging one garmin device with the neo... May 12 19:09:19 not an unlikely case May 12 19:10:10 balrog-kun: counter runs at half speed now May 12 19:10:34 hummm May 12 19:10:48 is phreedom phone a competitor? May 12 19:11:16 it has wifi ready to go but doesn't seem to be "open architecture" (though based on linux) May 12 19:16:11 i dont really want sat pictures, more like vector maps ;O) May 12 19:16:53 the gupp thingy is more like neo's evil step twin May 12 19:16:59 very ugly ;) May 12 19:51:27 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Wish_List_-_Hardware]] [[User:Antono]] [[Translation]] May 12 20:09:39 ~change 300 usd to eur May 12 20:09:47 i got some error trying that May 12 20:09:57 !google exchange 300 usd to eur May 12 20:09:58 Did you mean: exchange 300 usd to euro ? | deviza kártyák @ http://english.pszaf.hu/resource.aspx?ResourceID=cons_table_fxcards%20class=l | Bull & Bear - Servizi Finanziari - Servi @ http://www.bullbear.it/site/english/servizi_dati/baseit.asp%20class=l May 12 20:10:14 !google exchange 300 usd to euro May 12 20:10:16 Bull & Bear - Servizi Finanziari - Servi @ http://www.bullbear.it/site/english/servizi_dati/baseit.asp%20class=l | deviza kártyák @ http://english.pszaf.hu/resource.aspx?ResourceID=cons_table_fxcards%20class=l | OANDA FXTrade - Introduction to Currency @ http://fxtrade.oanda.com/currency_trading/intro_currency_exchange.shtml%20class=l May 12 20:13:24 !google 300 usd to eur May 12 20:13:25 300 U.S. dollars = 222.419929 Euros May 12 20:15:29 !google 350 usd to eur May 12 20:15:30 350 U.S. dollars = 259.489917 Euros May 12 20:15:34 :) May 12 20:22:27 Hello, everyone May 12 20:23:03 Any news about GPS? Binary driver to try? May 12 20:29:42 pavelm: there is a gllin binary shipped with the P1 devices that talks to the gps, but I couldn't get NMEA readings out of it's other end. May 12 20:29:54 so I can now talk to the GPS (http://linuxtogo.org/~ph5/tmp/hhtest.c) but I don't know what to say. May 12 20:30:34 will we receive elevation data from GPS? May 12 20:30:35 pH5 - Wait! You get some bits from the chip now? May 12 20:30:43 DukeOfURL - yes. May 12 20:30:46 Elrond: yes May 12 20:30:48 pH5 : lo9ok at the hammerhead_protocol page on the wiki May 12 20:30:57 and throw the strings that tomtom sends at it May 12 20:31:00 DukeOfURL: yes May 12 20:31:00 Elrond: on the p1 device with the shipped kernel at least May 12 20:31:10 DukeOfURL: Full position solution May 12 20:31:46 pH5 - Great! :-) May 12 20:31:50 * DukeOfURL calculating distance over the ground between two lat/lon points May 12 20:32:07 Is there way to flash p1 kernel/filesystems on p0? Can I download it somewhere? May 12 20:34:49 pavelm: I'm not sure. I suspect the shipped kernel has changes that are not yet in svn, no idea about the images. May 12 20:35:32 ph5: does calling actually work on phase1? May 12 20:36:24 pavelm: i think you can flash current kernel and rootfs on p0 just fine May 12 20:37:07 balrog: Ok.. when do I get current kernel/rootfs? May 12 20:37:25 pavelm - Try the one from the buildhost? May 12 20:37:25 pavelm: afaict it works as well as on p0 with current software May 12 20:37:26 from http://buildhost.openmoko.org/tmp/deploy/images/ ? May 12 20:38:36 balrog: Last ones I can see there are from 1-may... and did not work too well when flashed. I did not notice gllin binary there.. but I was not really looking. May 12 20:39:29 aloril: i was told gllin was not supposed to be on the phones and was only put there by someone's mistake or something May 12 20:39:50 heh. 'accidentaly'? May 12 20:39:51 oops, sorry that was for pavelm May 12 20:40:58 could someone accidentally mail me copy of gllin? May 12 20:40:59 :-) May 12 20:44:57 whats 'gllin' ? May 12 20:44:59 pavelm - I would be curious on the "license" for gllin ;) May 12 20:45:14 anyway I want it too :) May 12 20:46:34 Thanks :-) May 12 20:47:26 Elrond: the gllin binary says that the code and output are company secrets and can't be distributed May 12 20:47:33 note the 'output' May 12 20:47:39 you position is pwned May 12 20:47:52 *arg* May 12 20:48:04 Wait... Does that mean, I can't use gllin for osm?! May 12 20:48:49 * balrog-kun wonders why people want to use the closed-source piece so much May 12 20:48:58 Elrond: correct May 12 20:49:06 balrog-kun - To get the protocol. May 12 20:49:11 balrog-kun: to strace it :) May 12 20:49:13 balrog-kun, they want to study and replace it :) May 12 20:49:15 balrog-kun - black box analytics. May 12 20:49:48 balrog-kun - I do black box wire protocol analytics for 7 years now. :) May 12 20:49:54 elrond: No matter what the binary says... just ignore it. May 12 20:50:04 hmm okay, but there's no device that it runs on currently? May 12 20:50:11 elrond: Copyright only goes so far, and btw reverse engineering for compatibility is legal. May 12 20:50:20 other than the TomTom, but the TomTom version of gllin is different May 12 20:50:20 i wish that disassembly wasn't 18mb May 12 20:51:30 I don't care for disassembly. May 12 20:53:12 My upstairs neighbour was telling about how he wanted gpsd support for the hammerhead in his HTC phone May 12 20:53:16 I was hoping that it'd be a quick way to give the packets names. May 12 20:54:10 I'm hoping for gpsd support before GL GL/FIC publish their closed version :) May 12 20:54:43 koen - I doubt we're that fast. May 12 21:00:19 So to use the neo for osm, we definitely need an foss driver? May 12 21:00:47 elrond: No. Your position is your, and it is not copyrightable, so you can use it for whatever you want. May 12 21:00:48 Elrond, I really doubt that May 12 21:00:51 yeah May 12 21:02:30 pavelm - unless you lived in .ru some years ago. ;-) (I hear, that using gps or other devices to determine your own position was not legal at that time ;o) ) May 12 21:02:50 Elrond, no way May 12 21:02:54 So the "output is copyrighted" is a hoax, basicly. May 12 21:03:00 yeah May 12 21:03:10 The binary says "Source code and produced output information contains company confidential and proprietary information and can not be disclosed to any unauthorized individual." May 12 21:03:16 it's not even clear what they mean by that. May 12 21:04:06 pH5, that's not clear is it May 12 21:04:08 ph5: Have you signed any agreement with them? I did not. May 12 21:04:20 me neither May 12 21:04:52 ph5: So just ignore whatever it says. You still have to respect copyright, etc. May 12 21:05:33 ph5: And you can ignore copyright for reverse engineering purposes in many states. May 12 21:07:47 Well, for cleanness, if we want to disassemble stuff, we should apply "clean room reverse engeneering". May 12 21:08:29 elrond what's that? May 12 21:10:19 webjames - Basicly one person reads assembler and writes a spec, _other_ person implements code from that spec. May 12 21:10:40 webjames - The person coding should not see the disassembled code. May 12 21:10:54 elrond, i see, i had to write assembler once, man it's hard work May 12 21:11:19 you don't have to reimplement in assembly... and you don't want to May 12 21:11:27 Elrond: was that really ever needed outside of the us of a? May 12 21:11:38 anyway, doesn't seem to me that disassembly would be required in this case but *shrug* May 12 21:13:03 pH5 - Probably not. But we should be really safe on this side. (This was a long discussion on ReactoS [windows OS clone]. And I think, they had good reasons to decideo so, despite most developers are in europs) May 12 21:13:20 mjr: We could need it for anything that doesn't have corresponding NMEA output. Maybe there are power management commands. May 12 21:14:11 mjr - See pH5. And I'm just saying "we should be safe there". May 12 21:15:24 mm, righto May 12 21:15:31 and yeah, clean-room if disassembling May 12 21:16:06 ReactoS, why would you want that... May 12 21:17:39 webjames - to be able to run device drivers for windows on a free os. May 12 21:18:38 well, reactos people have really the nastiest enemy around :-) May 12 21:19:09 pavelm, who would that be? May 12 21:19:35 i would hate to be between the the two sides May 12 21:19:56 pavelm - (reactos) Well, the problems, that I heard: Some people stealing their code, compiling it and claiming they did it. Completely violating the GPL. May 12 21:22:52 webjames: I believe they are called Micro$oft. May 12 21:25:28 I think, ms ignores them for now. Half a year ago, it was tricky enough to get a stable svn revision for running under qemu. May 12 21:25:48 at least their networking was starting to work at that time. May 12 21:26:10 it's quite an impressive feat May 12 21:26:20 "if you discover a bug in windows, are you going to implement the same bug in ReactOS?" May 12 21:27:07 hehe. I remember an alike question on samba. The base answer was "yes". May 12 21:27:19 they did already on a couple occasions and they did implement the bugs :) May 12 21:27:43 :-) May 12 21:28:04 when applications (e.g. MS office) depend on the bugs, you are basically forced to implement them May 12 21:28:19 koen, that's so bad May 12 21:29:38 That's closed source reality. May 12 21:30:51 And sometimes we have it in FOSS too. Guess why libc6 has hundreds of old hidden ABIs. May 12 21:33:09 watched bbc news tonight 'click' had mark shuttleworth on it, mr ubuntu open source for africa May 12 21:33:56 and he was saying about his ubuntu mobile platform May 12 21:34:32 yea, millions linux distributions May 12 21:35:06 ubuntu mobile initial release in October 2007 May 12 21:35:39 aparently it's been backed by intel, but as openmoko has the neo1973 has a massive advantage May 12 21:36:07 ubunty mobile will only support x86 cpus May 12 21:36:19 which the vast majority of mobile devices don't have May 12 21:36:43 how stupid them. (SCNR) May 12 21:37:39 aparently it might use a chip codenamed Silverthorn May 12 21:37:56 ah that PXB line May 12 21:37:58 :p May 12 21:38:23 the chips will be one-seventh the size of conventional processors and consume just 10% of the power, Intel said. May 12 21:38:39 as someone said "x86 using 90% less power still means 6.5 watts" May 12 21:38:46 10% of 70W are still 7W. Way too much. May 12 21:39:31 And that sounds just like one of those "bare bone"/"book-pc" CPUs. May 12 21:40:01 yeah i beleive it's not a smartphone more of a pda May 12 21:40:43 Even for a PDA 7W are too much. May 12 21:41:17 yeah i guess they'll have to work on that May 12 21:41:18 Zaurus 3200 takes 2.5W May 12 21:41:19 Hmm. s/are/is/ ? (I'm not a native speaker) May 12 21:41:44 XorA - How large is the battery / how long does it last? May 12 21:41:47 well actually I suspect its nearer 3W a lot of the time May 12 21:42:06 Elrond: this is based on it takes 5V at 500mA and slighly above May 12 21:42:25 that's 3W including backlight, right? May 12 21:42:33 koen: yes May 12 21:42:43 the C860 takes less than the 3200 May 12 21:43:01 all that spinning the HD I suppose May 12 21:43:52 3W for all? May 12 21:44:24 In the x86 case we're talking about 7W for just the CPU May 12 21:44:35 Elrond: yes May 12 21:45:34 and the xscales aren't the most frugal ARMs around for that performance class May 12 21:46:19 Yep. May 12 21:52:22 X86 diddn't used to be that bad. May 12 21:52:27 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Buying_Interest_List]] May 12 21:59:12 ...actually, recompiling ubuntu for _anything_ should be trivial. May 12 21:59:39 actually, no May 12 21:59:42 ...but I guess they are targetting _way_ larger machines than gta01 May 12 21:59:59 yeah - something like the q1 without windows May 12 22:00:01 lots of software needs patches for !x86 archs May 12 22:00:01 koen: trivial as in one man-month May 12 22:00:21 remember those micro-laptop things that ran wince... MS failed that and killed the segement May 12 22:00:27 intel dosen't want to see the same happen to UMPC ;) May 12 22:00:31 koen: debian already patched all of them ;-) May 12 22:00:59 unknown_lamer: I know, I helped with the debian/EABI port May 12 22:01:13 nic May 12 22:01:13 e May 12 22:01:40 some of the n770/n800 hw is closed so an Ubuntu MID port might be tricky :( May 12 22:02:34 chadp: only charger is closed, iirc May 12 22:03:00 and wifi May 12 22:03:06 and dsp May 12 22:03:08 and ... May 12 22:03:10 and ... May 12 22:03:32 * unknown_lamer made the mistake of getting a series60 phone a few years ago May 12 22:07:06 koen: really? Nokia people were telling me only charger is closed-source. May 12 22:07:23 kone: Of course, it will have GSM firmware somewhere, and maybe wifi firmware...? May 12 22:07:34 GSM? May 12 22:07:43 it has no GSM radio May 12 22:08:22 koen: Right, sorry. May 12 22:08:31 koen: So what do you mean by dsp, then? May 12 22:08:48 the dsp May 12 22:09:39 in n770? May 12 22:09:43 what is it used for? May 12 22:09:57 for signal processing May 12 22:10:16 ..obviously, but what signal processing do you do on internet tablet? May 12 22:10:31 do I hear google calling? May 12 22:10:37 ..there are no dsp-s in Zauruses, and iirc n770 was pretty much Zaurus. May 12 22:10:47 apparently it can be used to slightly boost eg. media decoding May 12 22:11:01 voip can be done on main CPU. May 12 22:11:09 pavelm_away: you do not IIRC May 12 22:11:09 Are you sure n770 has dsp? Do you have some reference? May 12 22:11:20 djeez, is googling that hard? May 12 22:12:56 koen: I did not hear google calling :-). (I did not understand your remark). May 12 22:13:43 koen: Ok, wikipedia claims it does have a DSP. I guess that one can be ignored. May 12 22:14:09 koen: And nokia should be sued if it includes binary kernel module. But I guess they must drive it from userland somehow... May 12 22:14:29 no, it's a binary module May 12 22:14:44 umac.ko has no source May 12 22:17:08 I thought nokia was more clever then that. Either their people were lying to me, or this got added after I talked with them :-( May 12 22:17:12 someone should sue them. May 12 22:19:57 http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/engine?do=post_view_printable;post=21639;list=maemo :-( May 12 22:22:20 ... I guess someone should find out what inline functions their module includes, and then just send gplviolations.org on them. May 12 22:23:06 pavelm_away: at which point nokia says "sue connexant" May 12 22:24:42 koen: At that point they are barred from selling Nokia 770 in germany, right? May 12 22:25:10 koen: ..plus at that point they make it to slashdot etc ;-) May 12 22:25:40 nokia (legal dept + management) doesn't care about that May 12 22:25:54 the maemo people do, but they are only allowed to code :( May 12 22:28:09 pavelm_away: FIC should be sued as well, since they don't release the source for the kernel shipped in the p1 devices May 12 22:28:32 :P May 12 22:29:04 koen: Well, unlike nokia they'll probably release the sources when asked, right? May 12 22:29:13 no idea May 12 22:29:26 has anyone asked nokia via the proper channels? May 12 22:30:00 yeah, someone spend the 20E to send lawyers letter with stappled GPL to their legal dept asking for sources May 12 22:30:15 right May 12 22:30:27 or send harald a n800 May 12 22:31:13 suing is fun...especially in America! May 12 22:31:31 now we can try to sue you if your are NOT using DRM :) May 12 22:32:09 silly lawyers, trix are for kids :) May 12 22:32:33 koen: Yes, the thread I seen had people asking and nokia person replying that sources are not available. May 12 22:32:53 koen: I can talk to nokia people when I meet them ;-) May 12 22:33:01 nokia people also said the sources for the finger detections weren't available May 12 22:33:10 which were available May 12 22:34:17 Oops :-) May 12 22:42:40 pavelm_away: has nokia screwed up? May 12 22:43:25 re May 12 22:47:06 counter May 12 22:47:06 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 : >= 2007-05-10 (uncertainty is a optimistic guess) P1: 2 days 18:36:26 (2.775 +-2.8 days) (1157;201) May 12 22:57:37 counter May 12 22:57:37 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 : >= 2007-05-10 (uncertainty is a optimistic guess) P1: 2 days 18:31:10 (2.772 +-2.8 days) (1158;201) May 12 22:58:17 bugger, P1 release just when my final exames begin... May 12 22:58:34 (or during my final exames, if there's more delay) May 12 23:03:26 wow May 12 23:03:32 after 11 years a new portmap May 12 23:03:54 :P where? May 12 23:04:18 in my debian unstable now May 12 23:05:11 hmm, should ubuntu have a new portmap then too? :P May 12 23:05:26 in the next release sure May 12 23:05:33 (since ubuntu stable is like debian unstable) May 12 23:05:54 * LuitvD checks his current installation (ubuntu Feisty) May 12 23:06:35 which version is the 'new' one? ... never really looked at my portmap version May 12 23:06:45 portmap6 now May 12 23:06:58 previous was portmap5 May 12 23:06:58 * LuitvD still has portmap 5-24 May 12 23:07:25 but didnt check which patches was applied upstream May 12 23:07:39 the localhost bindonly May 12 23:08:02 hmm, think I will have to use the CDs that arrived this morning ... my current feisty (beta) installation won't update anymore ... May 12 23:08:27 or ubuntu sources are just slow :P May 12 23:09:57 wow, a 64-year old german cessna pilot flew his plane over the border towards the netherlands while being passed out... May 12 23:10:25 "passed out"? May 12 23:10:43 It's nearly mid May, any news yet on when the Neo1973 will be available? May 12 23:10:48 Elrond: stroke or some other quite bad illness May 12 23:10:58 hm May 12 23:11:10 my phone is strange May 12 23:11:11 Elrond: don't quite know the right word for it in english... it's "onwel" in Dutch May 12 23:11:21 I guess I never ever should turn it off May 12 23:11:31 its getting harder to start it evry time May 12 23:11:31 the poor bloke died in the hospital later... May 12 23:11:49 it's a miracle he made it to the hospital actually May 12 23:12:01 have you an url? May 12 23:12:05 woglinde: how's it getting harder to boot? May 12 23:12:19 woglinde - your neo? May 12 23:12:23 luitvd put on an usb 2 port May 12 23:12:30 and hit the power button May 12 23:12:34 elrony yes May 12 23:12:38 elrond May 12 23:12:56 woglinde: try typing half a nickname and pressing tab afterwards ;) May 12 23:13:09 I hate tabcompletion May 12 23:13:15 hahahah May 12 23:13:21 I used to hate it. :-) May 12 23:13:27 I hat scripts too May 12 23:13:44 I used to say "if I like people, I type their whole name, otherwise they're lost and I abbreviate them anyway" ;o) May 12 23:13:55 whats the time after hitting power button that the neo turns on? May 12 23:14:06 Yep. I don't have any real scripts on this client. May 12 23:14:09 wog: You don't want to know. May 12 23:14:34 woglinde - About 5sec or so you have to press the power button. May 12 23:14:39 pavelm my is strange thats why I am asking May 12 23:14:49 elrond: and then it takes around forever to boot. May 12 23:14:54 elrind oh okay May 12 23:14:55 wog: You need to press it for 9-or-so seconds. May 12 23:14:59 http://www.milspotters.nl/cessnaklu.jpg ... that's our royal dutch navy speeding off towards the unidentified cessna May 12 23:15:01 wog: _Long_ press. May 12 23:15:12 pavelm_away - Yours or woglinde's? May 12 23:15:13 9 seconds ? :| May 12 23:15:36 luitvd: Hmm, flying planes must be easier than I thought :-) May 12 23:15:51 elrond: I believe all neos take forever to boot. May 12 23:15:54 pavelm_away: flying a cessna certainly is... May 12 23:16:14 hm May 12 23:16:20 dont turn even after 20 seconds May 12 23:16:28 let me remove the akku and try again May 12 23:17:09 wog: Software is broken. May 12 23:17:22 Software on P1?! May 12 23:17:45 hm there is a new uboot in the tmp dir on buildhost May 12 23:17:50 but I will not flash it May 12 23:18:29 hm akku did the trick May 12 23:18:48 woglinde - no debug board --> don't touch u-boot. May 12 23:18:57 elrond yes thats it May 12 23:20:04 oh May 12 23:20:08 woglinde - BTW: Any result on your charger research? May 12 23:20:15 elrond no May 12 23:20:18 "oh"-what? May 12 23:20:38 woglinde's hardware feels a bit strange. May 12 23:20:50 hm battery is low but I turned it off with half full May 12 23:21:11 and there are two virtual keyboards May 12 23:21:20 one have the tab-key I searched for May 12 23:21:48 woglinde - BTW: Where in .de are you? May 12 23:21:56 berlin May 12 23:22:18 Okay, too far away (south of Frankfurt here) May 12 23:22:42 yeah but I see zecke every monday May 12 23:22:46 at the university May 12 23:22:52 Ahh ;) May 12 23:23:22 We should do some openmoko-de meetup some time. May 12 23:24:03 yeah maybee at LinuxTag May 12 23:25:08 LinuxTag is too expensive for me. And I don't want to go to a "Schaeuble"-conference. May 12 23:25:44 elrond: I'd guess so. It is in "early stages of development". I'd certainly not attribute _any_ problems to hw. May 12 23:26:38 pavelm_away - Well, hw did have problems in P0, so... ;) May 12 23:27:07 elrond mickeyl will be there May 12 23:27:49 woglinde - everybody will hang around mickeyl. ;o) May 12 23:29:05 elrond hehe May 12 23:29:06 elrond: Did we have serious hw problems in p0? May 12 23:29:06 yes May 12 23:29:22 pavelm the powerconsumption? May 12 23:29:24 elrond: I mean, it seems stable; it has known problems with power management, but that's pretty much it. May 12 23:29:36 elrond: Nothing causing random crashes in phase 0, is it? May 12 23:29:47 €sidetone May 12 23:29:49 elrond: Nothing that could explain two soft keyboards, for example. May 12 23:30:05 speed: Ok, but that's not instability, either. May 12 23:30:08 No. May 12 23:30:11 woglinde - A girl -- who I want to meet for ages -- gives a talk. It just doesn't look very good to me. it will be lots of stress at work, if I take more than one day holiday, etc. and the train will be expenstive too. May 12 23:30:49 elrond he no problem May 12 23:32:23 pavelm_away - Well, lots of things in p0 should generate interrupts nd don't. ;o) May 12 23:32:34 But still, yes. p0 seems stable. May 12 23:32:49 Just woglinde's p1 (from his reporting) feels a bit strange. May 12 23:33:08 Yes, the two soft keyboards are software. May 12 23:33:32 But the wall-charger not working feels like "might be the charger". May 12 23:33:48 elrond yes but It can be my fault May 12 23:33:54 so... there will be no pre-ordering? just ordering? May 12 23:33:58 by didnt handle the battery right May 12 23:33:59 for P1? May 12 23:34:11 luitvd yes It seems so May 12 23:34:30 openmoko.com is still offline May 12 23:34:40 I dont know if the wiki list will be used May 12 23:34:56 but than first comes first serve May 12 23:34:56 well, not really offline, but not online either :P May 12 23:35:11 yeah, most likely just that May 12 23:35:58 * woglinde wonders what fic will if one oders 50 May 12 23:36:09 heheh May 12 23:36:10 Smile, I guess. May 12 23:36:27 what would you do? I'd take the order for sure May 12 23:36:49 hell with production capacity :P May 12 23:37:36 damn, that QRA interception of the german cessna was quite a struggle... May 12 23:39:24 bad weather ... not the right moment to get unwell in a plane on your own... May 12 23:39:53 counter May 12 23:39:53 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 : >= 2007-05-10 (uncertainty is a optimistic guess) P1: 2 days 18:10:02 (2.757 +-2.8 days) (1159;201) May 12 23:43:05 luitvd: Is there english coverage? May 12 23:43:14 not really... May 12 23:43:16 elrond: Yes, nonworking charger seems like non-working charger :-) May 12 23:43:16 it's all dutch May 12 23:43:41 pavelm_away: there's the Bandbox and QRA Scramble radio transmissions May 12 23:43:50 in english... May 12 23:43:57 but it's long... May 12 23:44:20 the complete scramble, from takeoff till crash May 12 23:44:38 luitvd: Hmm :-) May 12 23:44:57 http://www.milspotters.nl/files/qra12cessna.mp3 May 12 23:45:02 * pavelm_away figured openmoko runs X, so I can remotely run applications. May 12 23:45:24 pavelm_away - Which direction are you using? May 12 23:45:28 thanks :-) May 12 23:45:36 run pc application with display on openmoko. May 12 23:45:59 pavelm_away: there's some dutch in it :P when the pilots describe details... May 12 23:46:36 gnome-panel on openmoko is fun :-) May 12 23:46:44 lol May 12 23:47:13 solitare works May 12 23:47:58 iirc someone ran tuxracer on the P0 devices :) May 12 23:48:02 pavelm_away: the radio-transmissions are between Bandbox and the QRA planes (two F-16 Fighting Falcon) May 12 23:48:20 hehe, and unlike openmoko stuff, it has readable font size :-) May 12 23:48:51 balrog-kun: did he tell how well it preformed? May 12 23:49:13 balrog-kun: 'ran tuxracer' or 'played tuxracer´ ? :P May 12 23:49:22 ...can even be controlled by fingers ;-) May 12 23:50:39 LuitvD: not sure, i only saw a screenshot from the menu screen May 12 23:50:46 mplayer works remotely, at about 4 frames a second. May 12 23:50:58 lol May 12 23:51:03 hehe :-) May 12 23:51:27 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Buying_Interest_List]] May 12 23:51:50 aloril: errrr.... what? :) May 12 23:52:03 ...but that's actually very good news, because usb is enough to do pretty much anything if it can run mplayer. May 12 23:53:01 ...xpdf works and even looks usable. May 12 23:53:18 that's nice May 12 23:53:49 if you can actually view pdf:s on neo it's already the best mobile on that front :) May 12 23:54:04 we merely need a web browser now :/ May 12 23:54:18 let me start a galeon... or xlinks? May 12 23:54:58 there's the webkit browser project...zecke's gsoc May 12 23:55:08 is there easy way to lie about DPI? May 12 23:55:20 xorg.conf? May 12 23:55:31 well, the Treo are not bad at reading PDFs either May 12 23:55:45 oh May 12 23:56:55 mozilla runs but has way too big toolbars. Like 1/3 of screen is toolbars. May 12 23:57:33 ...but I can read slashdot... in a pretty small font. May 12 23:58:15 :/ May 12 23:58:24 Firefox may work. May 12 23:58:26 eww there are better things to read May 12 23:58:30 Get the 'menux' extension May 12 23:58:46 this lets you have only one toolbar. May 12 23:58:51 with all needed stuff on it. May 12 23:58:52 (ok, the openmoko needs to be 10 centimeters from my eyes to read /.) May 12 23:58:57 urlbar, back forward, ... May 12 23:59:15 ...aha, actually three clicks and toolbars are gone :-) May 12 23:59:19 * LuitvD is off for some sleep... May 12 23:59:20 and then 'easygestures' to work the touchscreen May 12 23:59:20 I'll need to install that on zaurus. May 12 23:59:28 'night all May 12 23:59:31 I'd recomment 1.5 May 13 00:01:06 Currently often using FF on my 128M laptop, with 800x600 screen. May 13 00:03:03 Ok, so this can be done. Running X over bluetooth (not usb cable) would be even more fun, but that's topic for another day. May 13 00:03:05 Good night! May 13 01:08:50 seemant: i also use ubuntu feisty (Gnome) + firefox on a 128mb laptop. May 13 01:08:58 er SpeedEvil i mean ^^ May 13 01:10:06 don-o: congratulations May 13 01:10:48 * don-o grins May 13 01:10:49 i used Gnome on a 32mb laptop (not firefox though) but that was in the times when 128mb was the normal capacity :p May 13 01:18:41 I used IceWM on a 16MB laptop *WIN*! May 13 01:24:27 i've seen (not used :p) OPIE on a 16mb PDA, full blown qt-based desktop May 13 01:28:20 No X though, so technically it doesn't count :D May 13 01:32:43 I've run kde 3.5 and also gnome under debian on my pda - except my pda has 64MB ram and a 4gb hdd May 13 01:39:52 Yeah. Waaaay overqualified :D May 13 02:10:11 you guys like pain through slow computing? May 13 02:10:44 SuN: yeah, I even had a usb keyboard and mouse hooked up to it May 13 02:21:10 roh: yes, as soon as openmoko 1.0 is released, some of us are gonna fork it and make our own openslow-mo featuring extra slowness. **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sun May 13 02:59:59 2007