**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon May 14 02:59:57 2007
May 14 05:07:43 <bmidgley> is there a way to make ubuntu populate the ip address of usb0 when it comes up?
May 14 05:07:59 <bmidgley> i have to ifdown/ifup in order for the settings in /etc/network/interfaces to take
May 14 06:01:11 <CM> bmidgley: Maybe this? http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/USB_Networking#Automatic_method
May 14 06:30:23 <XorA> morning
May 14 06:50:28 <Hopscotch> good morning
May 14 06:57:23 <Rakshasa> Mornin
May 14 07:18:23 <TRIsoft> morning
May 14 07:26:05 <Psi> ya know the planed price discount for the P1+ for those who buy a P1.  Ya think that will be a 1:1 relationship? ie  buy one P1 and get one cheaper P1+ ? or ya reckon we will be able to get more than one at the cheap price if we got only one P1?
May 14 07:27:11 <TRIsoft> Sounds like a nice question for the mailinglist *hint*
May 14 07:27:38 <Psi> yeah
May 14 07:44:17 * Psi sends question to mailinglist
May 14 07:52:00 <Flo> counter
May 14 07:52:00 <aloril> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 (uncertainty is a optimistic guess) P1: 2 days 02:03:59 (2.086 +-2.1 days) (1168;203)
May 14 08:02:15 <Herod2k> o gente
May 14 08:02:19 <Herod2k> doh
May 14 08:02:23 <Herod2k> hi guys
May 14 08:20:38 <quitte> counter
May 14 08:20:38 <aloril> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 (uncertainty is a optimistic guess) P1: 2 days 01:49:39 (2.076 +-2.1 days) (1169;203)
May 14 08:22:04 <XorA> anyone tried usbhost mode on neo?
May 14 08:23:21 <ColdFyre> wow this place has grown.,.
May 14 08:38:25 <Pengu1n_> It's mid May now, :)
May 14 08:38:51 <XorA> everyone waits in hope
May 14 08:38:53 <Pengu1n_> where I can buy a neo1973 ?
May 14 08:38:53 <aloril> Pengu1n_: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.)
May 14 08:39:00 <XorA> Pengu1n_: not yet
May 14 08:39:47 <Pengu1n_> mid May means May 10~20 :)
May 14 08:40:16 <XorA> Pengu1n_: there will be a massive announcement when it goes for sale
May 14 08:41:20 <Pengu1n_> I want to buy it as developer.
May 14 08:41:37 <ynezz> we don't
May 14 08:43:09 <Pengu1n_> I'm eager for such a OPEN phone.
May 14 08:46:05 <XorA> Pengu1n_: watch for announcement
May 14 08:46:18 <XorA> Pengu1n_: like everyone else :-D
May 14 08:47:16 <XorA> Im sure channel will errupt all over the internet when it does :-D
May 14 08:57:37 <florian> good morning
May 14 09:10:32 <SpeedEvil> good morning florian.
May 14 09:10:42 * SpeedEvil checks the wiki.
May 14 09:11:28 <SpeedEvil> :/
May 14 09:12:09 <mjr> "Give me freedom or give me death!"
May 14 09:14:25 <KragenSitaker> supposedly the first run should have been four days ago, but there's nothing on the announcement list yet
May 14 09:16:54 <SpeedEvil> And no significant leaks.
May 14 09:17:16 <Psi> they did say that the first run will goto p0 ppl + their design staff etc. and that there may not be many left after that
May 14 09:17:20 <SpeedEvil> When was the second run due?
May 14 09:17:44 <Psi> may 20 or something
May 14 09:17:48 <SpeedEvil> IIRC, no. They said the run that has been done a couple olf weekls ago will be
May 14 09:17:50 <Psi> but im not sure if that was the start or end of the run
May 14 09:17:59 <SpeedEvil> The 150
May 14 09:18:19 <Psi> ah, i probably have my runs confused 
May 14 09:18:59 <Psi> do we know how many phones were made in the latest run?
May 14 09:19:00 <KragenSitaker> yeah, that was the run of 200 from last month
May 14 09:19:02 <KragenSitaker> no
May 14 09:19:08 <KragenSitaker> well, not in the announce mailing list post.
May 14 09:19:14 <KragenSitaker> maybe somebody in channel knows something more :)
May 14 09:19:43 <XorA> KragenSitaker: Im afraid we all in the dark
May 14 09:20:03 <Psi> hopefully there were no problems with this run
May 14 09:20:14 <roh> KragenSitaker its beeing worked on, really hard. just be patient
May 14 09:20:15 <SpeedEvil> I expect given the delays that the first (10th) run was to checlk out the production line, and the 20th will be the volume one in that case.
May 14 09:20:26 <SpeedEvil> delays as in no announce
May 14 09:20:49 * SpeedEvil accepts private messages :)
May 14 09:21:42 <amarsh04> so dont
May 14 09:23:26 <write_erase> Hi, I just found your project, and I'd like to join the dev community. Are the phones available now ? 
May 14 09:23:26 <aloril> write_erase: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.)
May 14 09:23:39 <XorA> write_erase: not yet
May 14 09:23:40 <SpeedEvil> write_erase: Not quite yet.
May 14 09:23:43 <SpeedEvil> Any day probably.
May 14 09:23:58 <SpeedEvil> This week or next seems likely.
May 14 09:24:11 <SpeedEvil> And you won't get a free phone unless you're special.
May 14 09:24:18 <XorA> SpeedEvil: Id go for next, we know how openmoko works :-)
May 14 09:24:27 <write_erase> SpeedEvil, I can pay for a dev kit 
May 14 09:24:38 <SpeedEvil> We're all waiting on the announcement.
May 14 09:25:09 <write_erase> What's the best channel for anouncements ? 
May 14 09:25:09 <SpeedEvil> There are some 300 people already put themselves on the interested in buying it list on the wiki - which has no official force.
May 14 09:25:16 <SpeedEvil> This one.
May 14 09:25:20 <write_erase> :-) gine 
May 14 09:25:21 <SpeedEvil> Or join the announce mailing list
May 14 09:25:22 <write_erase> fine
May 14 09:25:35 <XorA> write_erase: what do you develop BW
May 14 09:25:36 <XorA> BTW
May 14 09:25:38 <XorA> ?
May 14 09:26:08 <write_erase> XorA,  I mostly work on AVR32 Atmel boards .. for in-car systems 
May 14 09:26:17 <Psi> nice
May 14 09:26:45 <XorA> write_erase: cool
May 14 09:27:15 <XorA> write_erase: I havent done in car stuff since reverse engineering the sony headset->multichanger protocol and writing PIC code to translate it
May 14 09:27:21 <alphaone> write_erase: Nice. I want to get my hands on one of these soon.
May 14 09:27:43 <SpeedEvil> I'm planning to use the Neo for controling my ECU in-car, and reading out problems.
May 14 09:27:51 <write_erase> At the moment, I use T2 project for build system ... It supports AVR32 
May 14 09:27:57 <SpeedEvil> With the http://megasquirt.info/ ECU
May 14 09:28:54 <SpeedEvil> And perhaps for a complete dashboard, depending on how well the dashboard reacts to removing the ECU :)
May 14 09:29:29 <write_erase> SpeedEvil,  You can read most of interesting datas with simple CANbus tranceivers 
May 14 09:29:42 <write_erase> Speed / Comfort equipements .... 
May 14 09:30:06 <alphaone> Airbags :-)
May 14 09:30:31 <write_erase> Hehe 
May 14 09:35:28 <CM> SpeedEvil: megasquirt just doesn't sound tight to me..
May 14 09:35:39 <SpeedEvil> write_erase: No CAN.
May 14 09:35:48 <SpeedEvil> 1994.
May 14 09:35:53 <SpeedEvil> CM: Why not?
May 14 09:36:04 <CM> I mean the name sounds weird
May 14 09:36:09 <SpeedEvil> Ah
May 14 09:36:44 <CM> Either I get association with someone stepping on a huge toothpaste tube, or something much nastier..
May 14 09:36:55 * SpeedEvil declaims 'A rose, by any other name would smell as sweet'...
May 14 09:37:16 <SpeedEvil> It's controlling petrol injection.
May 14 09:37:34 <CM> Ah, ok. :)
May 14 09:37:48 <SpeedEvil> Or diesel, alcohol, nitromethane, ...
May 14 09:37:58 <SpeedEvil> Even water in some cases.
May 14 09:38:25 <CM> I know they put some water in dragsters when racing
May 14 09:39:16 <CM> I wonder what all the FIC people are up to..
May 14 09:39:43 <CM> Sure they're extremely busy, but just some kind of brief announcement would be nice
May 14 09:40:02 <roh> CM the same every linux developer wants... world domination ;)
May 14 09:40:04 <CM> Waiting is fine, as long as you get some trickle of news
May 14 09:40:11 <CM> roh: Hehe
May 14 09:47:12 <KragenSitaker> roh: heh, no problem --- i know the guys at FIC are hard working and competent :)
May 14 09:54:45 <XorA> why do terminal reactor overlaods always have a complex sequence to fix instead of a big red button saying Fix Overload?
May 14 09:56:06 <aloril> (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Buying_Interest_List]]
May 14 09:57:38 <Rakshasa> XorA: They make better puzzles in games that way...
May 14 10:03:46 <philippe>  interesting stuff to do some power-conscious programming : http://www.linuxpowertop.org/powertop.php
May 14 10:05:16 <barf> hey SpeedEvil, what are you putting the megasquirt into?
May 14 10:05:16 <aloril> barf: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.)
May 14 10:05:32 <koen> philippe: http://www.angstrom-distribution.org/repo/?action=details&pnm=powertop http://lists.linuxtogo.org/pipermail/openembedded-commits/2007-May/005477.html :)
May 14 10:09:42 <xkr47> nice
May 14 10:10:02 <holtmann> koen: Around?
May 14 10:10:19 <koen> holtmann: yes
May 14 10:10:35 <holtmann> Last week, I finally got bluez-utils-3.10 released.
May 14 10:11:01 <koen> cooool!
May 14 10:11:01 <roh> holtmann congrats ;)
May 14 10:11:09 * koen adds those to OE
May 14 10:11:24 <holtmann> roh: Took us five month. Don't ask :(
May 14 10:11:30 <xkr47> sing the bluez :)
May 14 10:11:49 <philippe> koen: nice :-)
May 14 10:12:00 <holtmann> koen: We need to fix the package recipe. Can you point me to the OE one. I like to review it.
May 14 10:12:20 <holtmann> koen: I changed a lot and now have to step-by-step clean the distros for it.
May 14 10:12:53 <koen> holtmann: they are in http://www.openembedded.org/filebrowser/org.openembedded.dev/packages/bluez
May 14 10:14:15 <holtmann> koen: The new bluez-libs-3.10 should be straight forward.
May 14 10:15:05 <koen> NOTE: package bluez-libs-3.10-r0: task do_configure: started
May 14 10:15:52 <koen> Packaged contents of bluez-libs into /data/build/koen/OE/build/tmp/angstrom/deploy/glibc/ipk/armv4t/libbluetooth2_3.10-r0_armv4t.ipk
May 14 10:15:58 <holtmann> # Almost all serial CF cards w/ manfid 0x0000,0x0000 seem to use the bcs protocol # Let's default to that instead of 'any' until further notice... SRC_URI += " file://default-manfid-0x0-to-bcps.patch;patch=1" 
May 14 10:16:15 <holtmann> That is crap. The protocol is called BCSP and you can't assume that.
May 14 10:16:25 <holtmann> From bluez-utils.inc
May 14 10:17:31 <holtmann> It should also only depend on bluez-libs and dbus by default. No dependency on cups. cups support is really optional.
May 14 10:18:08 <roh> holtmann it breaks because of cups if its missing
May 14 10:18:09 <koen> the cups plugin gets packaged seperately, so bluez doesn't depend on cups in runtime
May 14 10:18:37 <koen> roh: nonsense
May 14 10:18:49 <holtmann> You should not even depend on it at compile time. Mainly since it is not needed at all.
May 14 10:19:28 <roh> koen did here on my machine a few weeks ago. and no i did not explicitly enable it.
May 14 10:19:46 <roh> i had to build cups by hand to get it building through
May 14 10:20:07 <holtmann> roh: I always test with --disable-cups.
May 14 10:20:20 <roh> holtmann yeah.. you.. tell that the OE guys
May 14 10:20:37 <koen> roh: so the openmoko OE tree is broken, what else is new
May 14 10:20:38 <roh> thats why we again fixed the OE revision we use in OM
May 14 10:21:15 <holtmann> Sorry. The compilation with --enable-cups and --disable-cups works perfectly fine.
May 14 10:21:21 <koen> "had to build cups by hand" == broken tree
May 14 10:21:41 <koen> IOW, a problem with the openmoko stuff
May 14 10:21:46 <roh> koen we cannot just stay on head of OE as long as it breaks all the time. and no i will not discuss that. that was discussed in a lot of detail with harald and others before
May 14 10:21:46 <holtmann> And default cups support is off.
May 14 10:22:44 <holtmann> koen: Anyway. Please don't depend on cups by default. Not even at build time.
May 14 10:23:04 <roh> holtmann thanks, anyways :)
May 14 10:23:26 <roh> koen s/breaks/breaks OM/g
May 14 10:23:58 <koen> roh: 90% of the breakage is caused by the openmoko svn overlay
May 14 10:24:12 <koen> roh: if you delete teh overlay those problems dissappear
May 14 10:24:21 <koen> and bugs get fixed much sooner!
May 14 10:24:43 <SpeedEvil> barf: megatunix
May 14 10:24:45 <roh> koen it breaks because nobody of the OE guys seems to have any respect for overlays which are NEEDED to have the same results for all developers working on such a project.
May 14 10:25:01 * rwhitby gets out the popcorn ...
May 14 10:25:06 <roh> koen if you cannot accept that you should better leave. thanks
May 14 10:25:06 <hads> heh
May 14 10:25:12 <koen> roh: overlays aren't needed, all openmoko stuff is already in OE
May 14 10:25:18 <SpeedEvil> barf: it's an existing package. After that, I may write a custom little app of sorts.
May 14 10:26:05 <roh> rwhitby no need to. i will neither discuss this nor am in any position to change that. (or want that) if it was after me we would not use OE anyways.
May 14 10:26:07 <koen> roh: the only thing NEEDED to have the same results is that all developers have the same tree
May 14 10:27:00 <roh> koen not every developer is a OE and bb guru nor has he to be. if you want to enforce that by constantly breaking other peoples work they will leave and use other buildsystems. your decision
May 14 10:27:59 <koen> roh: hey, I don't break openmoko SVN, the openmoko team is doing a good job of that themselves
May 14 10:29:05 <roh> koen you break it by breaking the overlay. and no. i will not discuss that any further. accept it
May 14 10:29:05 <alphaone> Guys, I don't think this is leading anywhere we haven't already been...
May 14 10:29:31 <roh> alphaone thanks. i will go smoking now ;)
May 14 10:29:35 <koen> roh: how did I break the overlay? the openmoko team made the broken .21 kernel the default
May 14 10:30:05 <roh> koen you did not update it seems. 2.6.20 is used currently. the .21 is not default
May 14 10:30:05 <XorA> seeing as the "overlay" requires a version of OE in the past, I dont see how the OE team can break it
May 14 10:30:17 <koen> XorA: exactly
May 14 10:30:23 * hads gets bored
May 14 10:30:28 <roh> XorA yep. since we fixed on that again
May 14 10:30:38 <koen> roh: updating!?!?!? that breaks!!! updating is evil!!!!
May 14 10:31:14 <roh> XorA we just do not have the ressources to constantly patch behind the flow of oe changes and keep up working forward.
May 14 10:31:16 <holtmann> koen: I am just thinking about adding a --disable-mapages switch.
May 14 10:31:46 <koen> roh: you could have had the resources, I and others offered to do that
May 14 10:32:34 <roh> koen thats not my decicion at all. as i said i would never have used oe anyways. but thats only my personal opinion, not that of my 'bosses'
May 14 10:34:06 <roh> koen so lets please cool down, the fixed version will stay for obvious and already discussed reasons and go smoke a cigarette and drink some iced tea :)
May 14 10:38:33 <xkr47> the fixed version smokes cigarrettes and drinks iced tea ?-)
May 14 10:39:09 <barf> SpeedEvil, sorry, i meant what car? =)
May 14 10:39:09 <Hopscotch> !sandbox
May 14 10:39:51 <balrog-kun> ayan4m1: ping. current qemu svn is working for me, on a random 32bit machine in the lab
May 14 10:39:55 * balrog-kun is at school
May 14 10:41:06 <balrog-kun> it's just extremely slow here
May 14 10:42:15 <CIA-24> openmoko: 03thomas * r1953 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/applications/openmoko-contacts/ (ChangeLog src/contacts-contact-pane.c): 
May 14 10:42:15 <CIA-24> openmoko: Patch by: Neil J Patel <njp@o-hand.com>
May 14 10:42:15 <CIA-24> openmoko: * src/contacts-contact-pane.c: (field_focus_in), (field_focus_out),
May 14 10:42:15 <CIA-24> openmoko: (make_widget): Remove frames from entry boxes when not focused in edit mode
May 14 10:42:52 <koen> holtmann: could you hop over to #oe ?
May 14 11:10:56 <roh> bbl. food calls
May 14 11:11:04 <SpeedEvil> OMG
May 14 11:11:14 <SpeedEvil> They've done transgenic food with GSM.
May 14 11:11:21 <SpeedEvil> That's what the next OM device is.
May 14 11:11:52 <roh> :)
May 14 11:12:36 <Elrond> *G*
May 14 11:14:54 <holtmann> roh: Do you wanna maintain a separate recipe of bluez-utils for OpenMoko?
May 14 11:15:44 <loufoque> SpeedEvil: it's a weapon now?
May 14 11:24:22 <alphaone> loufoque: It's been a weapon all along. That's what you need for world domination nowadays.
May 14 11:32:22 <Elrond> [OT] Can modern desktop usb hosts meaure the current they give to a port? (and can I get that measurement?)
May 14 11:32:27 <SpeedEvil> No.
May 14 11:32:32 <SpeedEvil> Almost without exception.
May 14 11:32:47 * SpeedEvil passes elrond a USB cable, a knife, and a multimeter.
May 14 11:33:03 <loufoque> alphaone: violence is for the weak
May 14 11:33:10 <SpeedEvil> Which week?
May 14 11:33:13 <loufoque> alphaone: there is no need to have a weapon to dominate the world
May 14 11:34:19 <Elrond> SpeedEvil - hehe. :-))  I already found the extended version of the knife-meaurement tool: http://www.ultramobilegeek.com/2007/02/measuring-power-on-peripherals-usb.html ;o)
May 14 11:35:08 <Elrond> SpeedEvil - I had hoped to get something for free ;o)
May 14 11:35:32 <SpeedEvil> You don't have a multimeter?
May 14 11:36:19 <Elrond> SpeedEvil - I have one. Just I'm not good at those soldering / small cables things.
May 14 11:36:33 <SpeedEvil> Who said anything about soldering.
May 14 11:36:43 <SpeedEvil> Chop off the insulation outside the cable.
May 14 11:37:02 <SpeedEvil> Move the shieldig mesh to one side, and cut away the foil.
May 14 11:37:11 <SpeedEvil> Expose 2" or so of the cable.
May 14 11:37:22 <SpeedEvil> Cut the red wire
May 14 11:37:36 <SpeedEvil> Strip ends, wrap round multimeter probes, tape on.
May 14 11:37:40 <alphaone> loufoque: Of course you're right. I wasn't serious :-)
May 14 11:37:50 <Elrond> Okay: Small cables, etc. :)
May 14 11:38:15 <Elrond> :-)
May 14 11:38:51 <SpeedEvil> I'll mail you a pre-done cable with a couple of croc-clips for the plugs, for 5 quid via paypal :)
May 14 11:40:04 <Elrond> hehe, okay, I'll do that, when/if I need it. :-)
May 14 11:46:03 <CoreDump|afk> hmmm the box looks like a nifty little toy
May 14 11:46:32 * CoreDump|afk orders some USB female plugs
May 14 11:49:23 <Elrond> CoreDump|afk - Huh, what are you gonna do?
May 14 11:49:28 <XorA> ahah P1 phone arrives
May 14 11:49:43 <Elrond> XorA - the .tw one?
May 14 11:49:46 <CoreDump|afk> Elrond: the box, for fun =)
May 14 11:49:56 <XorA> Elrond: yeah
May 14 11:49:57 <Elrond> CoreDump|afk - Ahh ;)
May 14 11:51:28 <Elrond> XorA - Test the charger, please. woglinde's one did not like him. (I do not make any further claims to what was wrong.)
May 14 11:51:43 * XorA cant get the box open
May 14 11:52:26 * SpeedEvil passes XorA an axe.
May 14 11:52:49 <Elrond> XorA - adult safety? ;o)
May 14 11:53:44 <Elrond> How's the english name for those thingies (like on drugs, or for car doors), so children should not be able to open it?
May 14 11:53:53 <Elrond> (We call it "Kindersicherung" ;) )
May 14 11:54:11 <XorA> Elrond: no charger
May 14 11:54:37 <XorA> Elrond: Childproof
May 14 11:55:06 <aloril> (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Wishlist:Text_Input]] [[OpenMoko_under_QEMU]]
May 14 11:55:17 <Elrond> Ahh.
May 14 11:55:34 <Elrond> So the neo box is adultproof. ;o)
May 14 11:56:51 <Elrond> Hmm, "no charger".  I thought, Bv4 would come with a new charger with some trickery so the neo would nknow it's allowed to take 500mA.
May 14 12:21:05 <Mukunda> Is the Neo1973 available yet?
May 14 12:21:53 <hads> not yet
May 14 12:21:55 <webjames> no news then i take it
May 14 12:22:05 <hads> Join the announce list.
May 14 12:27:09 <webjames> balrog-kun: i see no luck with the changes yet, no matter, message me if i can be of any help
May 14 13:55:06 <aloril> (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[IPhone]]
May 14 14:07:53 <GaKkGaKk> counter
May 14 14:07:53 <aloril> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 (uncertainty is a optimistic guess) P1: a day 22:56:02 (1.956 +-2.0 days) (1170;204)
May 14 14:08:01 <PBeck> hi
May 14 14:08:04 <GaKkGaKk> a day?!
May 14 14:08:27 * SpeedEvil puts the counter on the rack, to find the truth.
May 14 14:08:38 <SpeedEvil> Maybe a day, maybe a week.
May 14 14:08:48 <LittleIdiot> my bet is +14d
May 14 14:08:50 <Vegar> I bet two
May 14 14:08:55 <SpeedEvil> It's looking like a month is less probable at this point
May 14 14:08:56 <Vegar> (weeks that is)
May 14 14:09:33 <GaKkGaKk> Good... I?m in the hospital with a broken ankle and no internet... and I would hate for something to happen without me seeing it :)
May 14 14:10:07 <Vegar> did you go skiing?
May 14 14:10:20 <SpeedEvil> Ah - you're using the psychic internet gateway to IRC I guess then.
May 14 14:10:24 <GaKkGaKk> football... (or soccer).
May 14 14:10:34 <SpeedEvil> Badly broken?
May 14 14:10:41 <GaKkGaKk> I am using my magic WLAN enabled Neo1973
May 14 14:10:52 <Vegar> a time traveller!
May 14 14:10:59 <GaKkGaKk> More pulverized than broken really
May 14 14:11:04 <SpeedEvil> Ow.
May 14 14:11:19 <GaKkGaKk> Three bones in the joint, foot and leg brken
May 14 14:11:24 <GaKkGaKk> joint crushed
May 14 14:11:34 <Vegar> are you sure it was football?
May 14 14:11:38 <SpeedEvil> Did you get run over by the bus?
May 14 14:11:46 <roh> re
May 14 14:11:47 <SpeedEvil> Containing the other team?
May 14 14:12:07 <GaKkGaKk> Never underestimate the power of taking speed into a tackle :)
May 14 14:12:09 <guaqua> GaKkGaKk: ouch
May 14 14:12:21 <SpeedEvil> GaKkGaKk: Can they rebuild you?
May 14 14:12:32 <guaqua> make update && make setup && make
May 14 14:13:05 <GaKkGaKk> They will make me ok, by the cunning use of nuts, bolts and metal plates.
May 14 14:13:29 <GaKkGaKk> I'll never get trhough airport security again...
May 14 14:13:49 <roh> Elrond when you speak about the black plastic cases... it propably helps to loose the small plastic covered screw near the handle. that would allow air in and ease the opening
May 14 14:13:52 * SpeedEvil waits for GaKkGaKk to wake up and come back to report that he's been turned into RoboCop.
May 14 14:14:01 <Vegar> GaKkGaKk: will you have them there for the rest of your life?
May 14 14:14:13 <SpeedEvil> They don't take plates like that out.
May 14 14:14:14 <SpeedEvil> Generally.
May 14 14:14:19 <Vegar> oh
May 14 14:14:29 <SpeedEvil> Unless it's a child, and they have to, to allow growth
May 14 14:14:43 <GaKkGaKk> Vegar: Probably, I can have them removed after 1,5 years or so if they annoy me, but then I have to let the leg grow again... Not sure I want that.
May 14 14:15:02 <SpeedEvil> Or if it causes problems of course.
May 14 14:15:09 <Vegar> let it grow?
May 14 14:15:14 <Vegar> in length?
May 14 14:15:15 <DukeOfURL> GaKkGaKk: airport security is going to be a problem:  "Oh my god, another shoe bomber"
May 14 14:15:26 <GaKkGaKk> To remove the plates... They have to like... open the leg.
May 14 14:15:40 <GaKkGaKk> To close the leg...
May 14 14:15:48 <SpeedEvil> They can't just use keyhole surgery, and extract them through the nostril? :)
May 14 14:15:49 <GaKkGaKk> grow / heal
May 14 14:16:08 <Vegar> that's not so bad, is it?
May 14 14:16:23 <SpeedEvil> The bone grows to a sufficient strength as it heals to support the body, with the plates present.
May 14 14:16:35 <GaKkGaKk> DukeOfURL: -"Ofcourse there is no giant metal knife in my sock..."
May 14 14:16:43 <SpeedEvil> If you then remove the plates, the bone is still not quite at adequate strength, so it takes a bit of time
May 14 14:16:51 <SpeedEvil> AIUI.
May 14 14:17:22 <webjames> GaKkGaKk: sound similar to what i've done to myself about a year back, it was called something fancy in hospital but it meant i broke all the bones around the ankle joint. the plates/rods/etc are all still there, and the only problem i have flying is the lack of leg space.
May 14 14:17:44 <GaKkGaKk> lack of?
May 14 14:18:27 <webjames> insufficient leg space, i don't have any problem with the sensors although i was warned i might
May 14 14:19:05 <GaKkGaKk> webjames: insufficient as in, no space for the stuff inside the foot?
May 14 14:19:15 <webjames> it gets stiff if i don't move it for a while, and in cold weather it aches
May 14 14:19:33 <GaKkGaKk> webjames: Good thing I live in norway then :\
May 14 14:19:34 <webjames> GaKkGaKk: no just not enough room to stretch my leg out and move it around
May 14 14:20:07 <webjames> GaKkGaKk: my guess is the metal gets colder quicker thus the aching
May 14 14:20:20 <DukeOfURL> I broke the top corner off of my talus--I still get periodic pain.  Recommendation :  if the docs say no weight on the foot then don't even toe touch. 
May 14 14:21:33 <webjames> DukeOfURL: yeah, i was told when i got out of hospital i could walk on it, so i got wheeled to my mates car in a chair and got driven home then walked out of the car to my house and around a bit, and then i was in agonny
May 14 14:22:05 <GaKkGaKk> I'm told absolutely no walking for 6 weeks.
May 14 14:22:52 <GaKkGaKk> Then walking and no running or such... And i have already waited two weeks for the operation, which is on friday.
May 14 14:22:59 <webjames> i was in hospital lying on my back with my leg up in the air to stop the swelling, then when they made my ankle i was told although the bones were not healed i didn't need them to be
May 14 14:23:31 <DukeOfURL> NHS?
May 14 14:23:52 <GaKkGaKk> NHS?
May 14 14:23:57 <webjames> yeah, i was waiting 2weeks well 13 days before they could operate
May 14 14:25:12 <GaKkGaKk> Guess I'll be around 17 - 18... I really hate this swelling :D
May 14 14:25:44 <webjames> GaKkGaKk: they cannot operate till it's down
May 14 14:26:01 <hrw>  
May 14 14:26:09 <GaKkGaKk> Anyway, I should get back to the hospital bed to avoid it swelling even more... Right now I'm in the hospital library...
May 14 14:26:22 <webjames> GaKkGaKk: i hope you're taking full advantage of the morphine
May 14 14:26:30 <webjames> GaKkGaKk: feel better matey
May 14 14:26:48 <GaKkGaKk> I only got morhine once..
May 14 14:27:04 <DukeOfURL> GaKkGaKk: I hope you have your foot propped-up on the monitor...
May 14 14:27:06 <webjames> GaKkGaKk: the trick is to say you're in pain
May 14 14:27:40 <GaKkGaKk> webjames: The morphine only makes me sleepy :\
May 14 14:27:58 <webjames> GaKkGaKk: all the time your foot is below you the swelling wont go down very quickly
May 14 14:28:15 <hrw>  cu
May 14 14:29:00 <GaKkGaKk> webjames: It's on the other table, but still it should be higher... So I'll leave... See you all later! There will be enough time for IRC when I get back home :)
May 14 14:29:24 <DukeOfURL> GaKkGaKk: good luck with the surgery!
May 14 14:29:30 <GaKkGaKk> thnx
May 14 14:29:53 <DukeOfURL> bummer
May 14 14:29:59 <guaqua> :(
May 14 14:30:09 <guaqua> sounds bad
May 14 14:30:35 <DukeOfURL> you don't realize how dependent you are on your feet until something happens...
May 14 14:30:56 <guaqua> i've only broken my toe, but that was bad enough
May 14 14:31:08 <guaqua> took over a year to heal
May 14 14:31:15 <guaqua> fully, that is
May 14 14:31:19 <SpeedEvil> I poured boiling water over one of mine.
May 14 14:31:22 <SpeedEvil> That wasn't fun either.
May 14 14:31:25 <SpeedEvil> (accidentally)
May 14 14:31:31 <guaqua> :D
May 14 14:31:31 <webjames> burns have got to be the worst
May 14 14:31:42 <SpeedEvil> It wasn't a bad burn fortunately.
May 14 14:32:08 <webjames> SpeedEvil: that is fortunate
May 14 14:33:11 <webjames> i still cant get qemu working since that update on friday
May 14 14:33:17 * SpeedEvil wonders how much the authors of "Where there is no doctor" would want for a mobile phone edition :)
May 14 14:34:33 <DukeOfURL> Heh.  Here in the states it's pretty much illegal to deliver a baby by yourself.
May 14 14:34:42 <DukeOfURL> Or any other medical procedure.
May 14 14:35:33 <SpeedEvil> There are generally exceptions for 'when it's not possible to get to a doctor, and the life is in danger'.
May 14 14:35:50 <SpeedEvil> Of course, if it's later found that the life was not in danger, you're screwed.
May 14 14:36:08 <DukeOfURL> yup
May 14 14:36:09 <hypa7ia_> i guess midwifery hasn't made much of a comeback in the US yet eh
May 14 14:36:30 <DukeOfURL> pretty much illegal unless a doctor is advising
May 14 14:36:44 <hypa7ia> wow
May 14 14:36:57 <hypa7ia> up here we have licensed midwives
May 14 14:37:01 <SpeedEvil> Midwives have legal standing here (UK)
May 14 14:37:14 <hypa7ia> the govt is trying to encourage people to use midwives because it's cheaper :)
May 14 14:37:21 <DukeOfURL> doctors have a very good lobbying organization called the AMA.
May 14 14:37:31 <hypa7ia> yeah :/
May 14 14:38:19 <webjames> just watching Lawrence of Arabia is it any good?
May 14 14:38:25 <hypa7ia> we have the CMA but for some reason they didn't get in the way of midwives as much
May 14 14:38:28 <DukeOfURL> classic
May 14 14:38:41 <DukeOfURL> hypa7ia: canada?
May 14 14:39:23 <hypa7ia> DukeOfURL: yup
May 14 14:40:52 <DukeOfURL> I would have to say that the root problem is with lawyers/prosecutors.  A prosecutor is an elected position, so he has to constantly demonstrate he's "tough on crime".
May 14 14:41:19 <DukeOfURL> There is much prosecutorial misconduct here.
May 14 14:41:19 <hypa7ia> here we don't elect judges or prosecutors
May 14 14:41:23 <hypa7ia> it seems to work pretty well
May 14 14:41:25 <SpeedEvil> That's an evil influence.
May 14 14:41:33 <SpeedEvil> As is plea bargaining.
May 14 14:42:22 <DukeOfURL> So if a mother loses her baby in a doctor-less birth, the prosecutor will step in and charge child abuse.
May 14 14:42:25 <SpeedEvil> Not to mention non-reciprocal extradition treaties.
May 14 14:42:27 <hypa7ia> plea bargaining can go pretty wrong
May 14 14:42:49 <hypa7ia> DukeOfURL: wow, that would never happen here
May 14 14:43:21 <DukeOfURL> because the law states a doctor must be advising
May 14 14:43:45 * hypa7ia nods
May 14 14:44:01 <hypa7ia> which is kind of crap
May 14 14:44:02 <hypa7ia> i mean
May 14 14:44:12 <hypa7ia> a doctor doesn't need to advise on taking a crap
May 14 14:44:21 <hypa7ia> which is about as natural a funcion as giving birth :p
May 14 14:44:21 <DukeOfURL> let's throw it all out the window and start over
May 14 14:44:46 <hypa7ia> lol
May 14 14:44:53 <hypa7ia> a friend of mine is giving birth in june
May 14 14:45:06 <hypa7ia> she's an advocate of "unassisted childbirth"
May 14 14:45:22 <hypa7ia> i'm kinda nervous for her but she's pretty set on going alone!
May 14 14:46:13 <DukeOfURL> does she have a hottub handy?
May 14 14:47:25 <koen> all 3 mothers I know that went for "unassisted childbirth" needed to be rushed into the hospital due to complications
May 14 14:47:45 <zecke> koen: that is a dutch habbit :)
May 14 14:48:03 <hypa7ia> DukeOfURL: a bathtub, anyway :)
May 14 14:49:01 * DukeOfURL often wonder how many of us men would be able to deal with pregnancy and birthing...
May 14 14:49:46 <koen> none, since we're men :)
May 14 14:49:48 * hypa7ia wouldn't really wish it on anyone :p
May 14 14:50:42 * koen does have a rabid dislike for midwives
May 14 14:50:51 <hypa7ia> koen: really?
May 14 14:50:52 <aloril> hypa7ia: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.)
May 14 14:51:16 <hypa7ia> ha
May 14 14:51:23 <koen> hypa7ia: I would have been killed twice if my mother had followed the advice of the midwive to "take an aspirine"
May 14 14:52:02 <hypa7ia> ouch
May 14 14:52:15 <koen> probablyt the exception to the rule, though
May 14 14:52:19 <hypa7ia> aspirin is a blood thinner
May 14 14:52:32 <hypa7ia> i don't know why anyone would give that to a labouring woman :p
May 14 14:52:38 <hypa7ia> koen: probably
May 14 14:52:55 <hypa7ia> the US has the highest rate of death in childbirth of any industrialized country
May 14 14:52:59 <koen> labour hadn't happened at that point, though
May 14 14:53:08 <hypa7ia> ah
May 14 14:53:25 <koen> I'm also biased because most of my family works or has worked in a hospital :)
May 14 14:53:55 <hypa7ia> hehe, here a lot of the midwives work in / from hospitals
May 14 14:56:40 <DukeOfURL> hypa7ia: rate of death for the mother or the child?
May 14 14:56:59 <hypa7ia> DukeOfURL: both
May 14 14:57:23 <hypa7ia> infant mortality and maternal death
May 14 15:03:47 <CIA-24> openmoko: 03thomas * r1954 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/panel-plugins/openmoko-panel-battery/src/openmoko-panel-battery.c: openmoko-panel-battery: don't print out debug messages every five seconds
May 14 15:06:46 <LuitvD> counter
May 14 15:06:46 <aloril> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 (uncertainty is a optimistic guess) P1: a day 22:26:36 (1.935 +-1.9 days) (1171;204)
May 14 15:08:44 <LuitvD> any more info on the P1 release yet?
May 14 15:09:31 <hads> No, it will be on the announce list.
May 14 15:09:39 <ynezz> when?
May 14 15:09:41 <ynezz> :)
May 14 15:09:49 * don-o laughs
May 14 15:09:56 <hads> When it's ready.
May 14 15:10:16 <don-o> i was excited to see the JavaFX announcement use the neo as one of its supported platforms.
May 14 15:10:36 <LuitvD> don-o: really? :D
May 14 15:10:48 <LuitvD> that's cool
May 14 15:11:11 <don-o> LuitvD: yeah, its got to be encouraging to FIC to see Sun show interest in their phone.
May 14 15:12:26 <don-o> LuitvD: http://blogs.sun.com/jonathan/entry/when_not_where
May 14 15:13:39 <LuitvD> very slow website...
May 14 15:14:08 <webjames> yes...
May 14 15:14:54 <LuitvD> youtube was like this yesterday
May 14 15:15:23 <don-o> hmm. the neo isnt actually named in the article, but there is a big beautiful photo of it with some java desktop thing on it.
May 14 15:15:42 <LuitvD> aww
May 14 15:16:04 <rd_> http://www.pikesoft.com/blog/index.php?itemid=174
May 14 15:16:28 <LuitvD> ah, now I see :)
May 14 15:16:29 <LuitvD> nice
May 14 15:17:29 <LuitvD> how did he get one? :|
May 14 15:18:05 <koen> probably by asking for it
May 14 15:18:12 <rd_> LuitvD, good question, im wondering too :D
May 14 15:18:31 <LuitvD> koen: didn't work for me though :P
May 14 15:18:53 <LuitvD> koen: most likely I haven't been asking the right person
May 14 15:33:19 <simon__> counter?
May 14 15:33:20 <aloril> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 (uncertainty is a optimistic guess) source: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/MokoMakefile ; P0: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Wishlist:Neo1973_P0_Review; a day 22:13:19 (1.926 +-1.9 days) for devices for *ANYBODY* for $350 (targeting developers) (preorders: not yet) (2007-05-15);  4 months, a day (124.852 +-15.0 days) for mass market (2007-09-15): see topic for more info (1172;204)
May 14 15:34:47 <pjz> LuitvD: are you a major Sun exec? :)
May 14 15:35:15 <LuitvD> depends on who's asking ;)
May 14 15:53:45 <TRIsoft> gtg, cu
May 14 15:55:06 <aloril> (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Buying_Interest_List]]
May 14 16:12:48 * mjr got his Freedom Mini keyboard; hooked up nicely to my desktop system once I managed to find out that "hidd" is the magic command
May 14 16:13:29 <mjr> a bit layout finetuning needed, but works, and isn't too cumbersome to type on if one isn't going for fine literature
May 14 16:13:50 <mjr> (or well, any long piece of writing ;)
May 14 16:16:16 <SpeedEvil> The credit card one?
May 14 16:16:20 <SpeedEvil> 2AAA
May 14 16:16:36 <mjr> yeah this one: http://gtbleds.up.seesaa.net/image/P1000677.JPG
May 14 16:17:38 <ynezz> nice
May 14 16:18:10 <mjr> the handy hinge at the back seems like it should be able to support a Neo nicely, but I'll have to wait to verify :]
May 14 16:19:57 <mjr> (a spring-loaded hinge to squeeze another device on the keyboard so you can manipulate them kinda as a unit)
May 14 16:20:28 <Elrond> Evening poeple. :-)
May 14 16:21:09 <SpeedEvil> Afternoon.
May 14 16:21:33 <Elrond> It's feeling more like evening. ;)
May 14 16:26:35 * arw hello to all
May 14 16:27:00 <don-o> its evening somewhere :)
May 14 16:28:00 <arw> don-o: here is morning ..
May 14 16:28:02 <arw> :)
May 14 16:28:44 <balrog-kun> webjames: i haven't made any changes related to that problem but it's working on 32bit systems when built the using the instructions from the wiki - checked today at school on a random computer
May 14 16:29:11 <webjames> balrog-kun: cool, i'll try that, thanks
May 14 16:29:34 <Elrond> balrog-kun - How large is the diff to a standard qemu?
May 14 16:29:47 <balrog-kun> webjames: ok, lemme find a link to the wiki page
May 14 16:29:54 <balrog-kun> Elrond: i estimate around 500kB
May 14 16:30:03 <Elrond> Huh, that's a lot. Hmm.
May 14 16:30:20 <Elrond> Are you trying to push things upstream?
May 14 16:30:38 <balrog-kun> at the moment there's some 100kB of code that's not ours in this tree and that is also not in the standard qemu
May 14 16:30:49 <balrog-kun> Elrond: i'll be trying when it's more mature
May 14 16:31:00 <balrog-kun> Elrond: at the moment it's still evolving very quickly
May 14 16:31:52 <balrog-kun> Elrond: i do work with upstream and posted information about our tree to qemu-devel
May 14 16:32:17 <Elrond> balrog-kun - Ahh, great. :)
May 14 16:32:52 <Elrond> balrog-kun - If you feel the diff to be good enough, I can try to get it (the diff) into debian's qemu.
May 14 16:33:33 <balrog-kun> there are parts that are not strictly related to Neo emulation and i try to commit them to qemu mainline CVS (when they're clean enough :p)
May 14 16:34:05 <Elrond> You have commit access to upstream's cvs?
May 14 16:34:09 <balrog-kun> Elrond: ah, nice
May 14 16:34:17 <balrog-kun> Elrond: yep, since not too long ago
May 14 16:34:53 <Elrond> Ahh, good.
May 14 16:36:45 <balrog-kun> i can now more easily make a diff because our tree is in sync from last friday, and it's also starting to look clean to me
May 14 16:37:29 <balrog-kun> this was possible cause the svn.openmoko.org tree was not based on mainline, but on a different tree that had over 1MB of changes and i only committed it all last week
May 14 16:38:58 <parag0n> hmm, is p1+ still planned ofr june?
May 14 16:39:08 <parag0n> because at ths point, i might just wait :P
May 14 16:39:13 <happycube> depends on how the first version of gta02 works
May 14 16:40:59 <Elrond> Ahhh.
May 14 16:41:15 <Elrond> balrog-kun - If you need someone to review small parts, let me know. :)
May 14 16:42:26 <balrog-kun> Elrond: ok, thanks :)
May 14 16:42:38 <balrog-kun> webjames: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/OpenMoko_under_QEMU#Manual_setup this is the instructions that worked for me
May 14 16:42:46 <balrog-kun> sorry it took so long :p
May 14 16:42:58 <webjames> balrog-kun: np. thanks, ill try that out
May 14 16:43:02 <kiney_> counter
May 14 16:43:03 <aloril> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 (uncertainty is a optimistic guess) P1: a day 21:38:27 (1.902 +-1.9 days) (1173;204)
May 14 16:56:26 <Sufflope> if P1 won't take place Wednesday, it is quite sadistic to let the counter tell us so :p
May 14 16:56:34 <webjames> balrog-kun: yeah thanks for that worked like a charm, although seems alot slower than before, maybe i'm doing my om my computer
May 14 16:58:29 <balrog-kun> webjames: i.e. it takes longer to boot OpenMoko?
May 14 16:58:46 <webjames> balrog-kun: yeah so far about 10x longer
May 14 16:59:44 <balrog-kun> hummm, on that 32bit machine i tested it was also extremely slow, i will need to check that
May 14 17:00:05 <balrog-kun> i notice no difference on my desktop
May 14 17:01:23 <webjames> balrog-kun: your desktop is 64bit, i'm waiting to buy a amd quad core thing
May 14 17:01:55 <balrog-kun> yeah, but a 10x difference would be noticeable nevertheless :p
May 14 17:03:09 * balrog-kun will measure time from choosing "Linux" in u-boot to the desktop icons appearing
May 14 17:03:38 <webjames> okay i'll do the same
May 14 17:04:48 <balrog-kun> 61 seconds here (i thought it was going to be less)
May 14 17:05:13 <balrog-kun> this is assuming the touchscreen is calibrated already etc
May 14 17:07:17 <balrog-kun> i wonder what maybe slowing it down so badly on 32bits, - i also noticed that erasing the flash with the "scrub" command in u-boot took unproportionally long compared to other flash operations on that 32bit machine
May 14 17:08:30 <webjames> okay timings: 1.47 to get the X i nthe middle of the screen, 2.37 to the first signs of gui, 2.46 till i saw icons, and 2.56 untill fully loaded
May 14 17:09:56 <SP8472> seconds or minutes? ;-)
May 14 17:09:57 <happycube> 64-bit mode has many more registers than 32-bit mode
May 14 17:10:02 <webjames> minutes
May 14 17:10:04 <balrog-kun> or hours? :p
May 14 17:10:11 <happycube> so 32-bit may be thrashing to L1 cache a lot more
May 14 17:10:13 <balrog-kun> that sounds bad
May 14 17:10:17 <webjames> balrog-kun: thats a fresh build
May 14 17:10:29 <balrog-kun> webjames: and it was faster before that, right?
May 14 17:10:37 <balrog-kun> i mean last week
May 14 17:10:47 <webjames> i would say loaded fully in ~12seconds
May 14 17:10:57 <webjames> maybe 15
May 14 17:17:45 <Nebukadneza> hi
May 14 17:37:49 <SpeedEvil> Something that could be shipped with the neo, to improve reception: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/devon/6654955.stm
May 14 17:39:30 <LuitvD> that's odd...
May 14 17:54:18 <d4rkm3n> hi guys
May 14 17:55:06 <aloril> (script) planet: Michael "mickeyl" Lauer: OpenMoko conquers Opie http://www.vanille-media.de/site/index.php/2007/05/14/openmoko-conquers-opie/
May 14 17:57:09 <d4rkm3n> the first version of neo1973 is not very useful
May 14 17:57:47 <d4rkm3n> it has a too small display for touchscreen
May 14 17:58:36 <d4rkm3n> and a camera is very important in these days
May 14 17:59:08 <d4rkm3n> the second release of neo1973 are planed for 2008?
May 14 17:59:12 <drath> guess there are quite a few people here who disagree ;)
May 14 17:59:14 <stefan_schmidt> mobile phone cameras are for kids not for business. ;) SCNR
May 14 17:59:39 <stefan_schmidt> d4rkm3n: If the first goes well there will be others
May 14 17:59:58 <d4rkm3n> stefan_schmidt: do you habe a neo1973?
May 14 18:00:01 <d4rkm3n> have
May 14 18:00:14 <stefan_schmidt> d4rkm3n: two :)
May 14 18:00:36 <d4rkm3n> stefan_schmidt: ca you give me some personal impressions of the display size?
May 14 18:00:43 <d4rkm3n> is it too small?
May 14 18:00:47 <balrog-kun> the screen is for people with very thin fingers
May 14 18:00:57 <d4rkm3n> balrog-kun: :D
May 14 18:01:16 <stefan_schmidt> d4rkm3n: what do you mean with small, not the size itself 2,8" I guess
May 14 18:01:34 <stefan_schmidt> d4rkm3n: You mean the font on the screen or the resolution?
May 14 18:01:50 <d4rkm3n> stefan_schmidt: can you join #openmoko.de ?
May 14 18:02:19 <stefan_schmidt> d4rkm3n: why? Splitting channels sounds a bit wired to me
May 14 18:02:39 <SpeedEvil> I'd assume it's for people that only speak .de
May 14 18:02:40 <d4rkm3n> stefan_schmidt: yeah its hard for me to explain it in english
May 14 18:02:55 <stefan_schmidt> d4rkm3n: ok
May 14 18:02:56 <d4rkm3n> and your name sounds very german ;D
May 14 18:06:56 <aloril2> Sufflope: ;-)  (actually up to 3.8 days)
May 14 18:07:44 <buz> is it just me, or is the idea to get discount on more than on p1.5 devices kinda weird=
May 14 18:08:09 <SpeedEvil> Where?
May 14 18:08:12 <SpeedEvil> New announce?
May 14 18:12:14 <don-o> counter
May 14 18:12:14 <aloril> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 (uncertainty is a optimistic guess) P1: a day 20:53:52 (1.871 +-1.9 days) (1174;204)
May 14 18:12:34 <don-o> wow the counter is really close to zero. someone better reset it for a couple weeks pretty soon and dash all my hopes :)
May 14 18:12:37 <SpeedEvil> gg zigbee switch current average freescale
May 14 18:12:43 <SpeedEvil> sigh
May 14 18:12:53 <don-o> opera user?
May 14 18:16:48 <SpeedEvil> No
May 14 18:17:00 <SpeedEvil> I have a tiny bash script to launch lynx
May 14 18:17:36 <SpeedEvil> And my laptop was lagging as I was routing a PCB
May 14 18:17:48 <LuitvD> pcb for what?
May 14 18:18:17 <SpeedEvil> ECU
May 14 18:18:57 <koen> still no working car?
May 14 18:20:06 <LuitvD> what brand of car is it?
May 14 18:20:08 <SpeedEvil> I've got a working car. This is for my backup car.
May 14 18:20:15 <SpeedEvil> Renault Laguna - 1994
May 14 18:20:26 <SpeedEvil> Backup larger car with tow hook
May 14 18:21:11 <SpeedEvil> For sticking in the garage, and insuring only on days I go out with it basically. For towing stuff.
May 14 18:21:46 <LuitvD> nice car
May 14 18:22:32 <SpeedEvil> Well - no :)
May 14 18:22:36 <LuitvD> I can see a silver one from here :P
May 14 18:22:49 <LuitvD> it's not ours though...
May 14 18:23:26 <LuitvD> my dad has a Volvo 440 :)
May 14 18:23:39 <LuitvD> love that car, old and decent
May 14 18:23:41 <SpeedEvil> It's got rather more rust than I'd like.
May 14 18:23:58 <SpeedEvil> This is old and not especially decent - lots of corrosion on the offside underside
May 14 18:23:59 <LuitvD> oeh, that's bad
May 14 18:24:42 <LuitvD> that doesn't happen all by itself, or does it? :P
May 14 18:25:03 <SpeedEvil> Salt on road. The offside gets more salt spray
May 14 18:25:26 <SpeedEvil> OTOH - I can practice welding. And if I kill it, I can scrap it for 2/3 of the buy price
May 14 18:25:50 <LuitvD> I don't think we've ever lost a car to rust...
May 14 18:26:10 <LuitvD> I don't recall having rust on any car we had actually... 
May 14 18:26:47 <SpeedEvil> This was a car from the seaside
May 14 18:27:54 <buz> SpeedEvil: actually, some guy on the mailing list asks about the discount
May 14 18:28:07 <SpeedEvil> Ah
May 14 18:28:24 <LuitvD> the only rust we had was on the car that got hit by an iron frame that flew off a roof in a storm :P
May 14 18:28:51 <LuitvD> the place that got hit had a little :P
May 14 18:29:09 <mjr> buz, it is weird. Could've been weirder, but then he'd have to have asked Sean for a handjob or something
May 14 18:29:28 <LuitvD> XD
May 14 18:29:55 <buz> lol, or ask fic to bundle a fleshlight
May 14 18:30:12 <LuitvD> aaaah
May 14 18:30:15 <LuitvD> that's bad :P
May 14 18:30:18 <SpeedEvil> It's got a flashlight
May 14 18:30:27 <buz> flEshlight
May 14 18:30:33 <LuitvD> SpeedEvil: is the screen that bright?
May 14 18:31:00 <buz> NSFW, but see www.fleshlight.com
May 14 18:31:19 * LuitvD isn't clicking that :P
May 14 18:31:26 <buz> oh its not so bad
May 14 18:31:32 <LuitvD> I just KNOW what it is :P that's the bad part
May 14 18:31:41 <buz> ah you got one, then?
May 14 18:31:50 <LuitvD> XD nah, it's not that bad
May 14 18:32:19 * koen is waiting for the tubgirl and goatse links to appear
May 14 18:32:26 <buz> if you could buy these in normal stores i might give them away for birthday presents
May 14 18:33:01 <SpeedEvil> LuitvD: No - the stylus has a LED
May 14 18:33:16 <LuitvD> which version? "you're an ass, have an ass" :P
May 14 18:33:28 <LuitvD> SpeedEvil: ah, right
May 14 18:33:45 <LuitvD> SpeedEvil: LED and laser?
May 14 18:33:51 <LuitvD> or just LED?
May 14 18:34:02 <koen> both
May 14 18:34:10 <buz> LuitvD: ROTFL
May 14 18:34:40 <LuitvD> buz: even funnyer: "you kick ass"
May 14 18:35:10 <LuitvD> I don't see why people would want a fleshlight...
May 14 18:35:42 <buz> you don't? seems obvious to me
May 14 18:35:42 <SpeedEvil> Random (also NSFW) http://www.breastimplants4you.com/glowing_breast_implants.htm
May 14 18:35:49 <XorA> laser that goes over 100 yards
May 14 18:36:15 <LuitvD> SpeedEvil: OMFG, that's nice :P
May 14 18:36:33 <buz> i was thinking something much further out
May 14 18:36:47 <buz> say filled with glowing stuff or something like that
May 14 18:37:28 <LuitvD> like fluorescent additives in the implants?
May 14 18:37:30 <XorA> SpeedEvil: so some ultrabright LED's in  bra would rock for halloween
May 14 18:37:34 <buz> yea hsomething like that
May 14 18:37:44 <SpeedEvil> XorA: Only with implants.
May 14 18:37:47 <buz> preferably green
May 14 18:38:11 <LuitvD> or like those emergency sticks, which you break
May 14 18:38:19 <LuitvD> punch-a-breast
May 14 18:38:22 <buz> well breat implants should break
May 14 18:38:25 <buz> not
May 14 18:38:55 <buz> somehow i doubt punch a breast would go over well
May 14 18:39:56 <LuitvD> ya think I'm being serious at all? :P
May 14 18:40:40 <buz> who knows
May 14 19:33:44 * buz wonders whatever happened to the production run on the 10th
May 14 19:37:02 <guaqua> testing?
May 14 19:40:21 <buz> that must be some serious testing then
May 14 19:40:39 <guaqua> well how big of a production run was it?
May 14 19:41:01 <buz> well not sure, but i'd expect them to have testing capacity for whatever they make
May 14 19:41:11 <guaqua> yeah :(
May 14 19:41:12 <buz> the fab would be kinda useless if not
May 14 19:41:14 <guaqua> err :/
May 14 19:41:27 <guaqua> maybe they had some problems with the run
May 14 19:41:35 <buz> whats the use of making stuff if you cant test if its working, after all
May 14 19:42:36 <Elrond> *duck* Aren't customers doing that nowadays? ;o)
May 14 19:42:52 <buz> well we are supposed to test the software
May 14 19:42:58 <buz> that is public knowledge
May 14 19:43:16 <Elrond> Right.
May 14 19:43:22 <Nebukadneza> counter
May 14 19:43:22 <aloril> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 (uncertainty is a optimistic guess) P1: a day 20:08:17 (1.839 +-1.8 days) (1175;204)
May 14 19:56:06 <aloril> (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[OpenMoko_under_QEMU]] [[Accelerometer_Fundamentals]]
May 14 20:03:54 <don-o> buz: i assumed the production run happened because of the various reports from developers saying they got a neo. it would be interesting to know how many were made and how many will be made on the 20th
May 14 20:04:38 <buz> those were from an earlier run
May 14 20:04:43 <buz> some time late april
May 14 20:11:44 <koen> developers should have taiwanese phones
May 14 20:11:55 <koen> customers get chinese phones
May 14 20:16:14 <rillian> what regions does the gsm modem support?
May 14 20:16:14 <aloril> rillian: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.)
May 14 20:16:22 <XorA> good news on Neo speed, just installed Angstrom-x11-image and it flies
May 14 20:17:40 <rillian> wow, the bot was actually right
May 14 20:17:43 <rillian> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/OpenMoko_compatible_cellphone_providers
May 14 20:27:11 <pjz> XorA: cool; I'm kind of scared that the default image is going to be slow
May 14 20:27:59 <koen> XorA: so the overlay is making it slow?
May 14 20:28:03 * koen hides
May 14 20:28:41 <robtaylor> XorA: what changed?
May 14 20:29:10 <Elrond> koen - *lol*
May 14 20:29:28 <Elrond> We need a automatic popcorn supply in here. ;o)
May 14 20:30:28 <Hopscotch> alphachannel? *ducksandcovers*
May 14 20:32:47 <Elrond> Hopscotch - Huh?
May 14 20:32:53 <loufoque> anyone has been running python on the neo 1973?
May 14 20:33:52 <balrog-kun> the qtopia source tarball has some input methods for phones plugins under GPL
May 14 20:33:57 <Elrond> loufoque - If not, I'll be the first. ;-)
May 14 20:35:03 <balrog-kun> hmm one of these plugin directories contains a couple of popular books texts from project gutenberg
May 14 20:35:58 <Hopscotch> Elrond: i guess most of the slow graphics is because of the transparency effects...
May 14 20:36:14 <Hopscotch> Elrond: but most of this has been talked over and over
May 14 20:36:51 <webjames> there was talk of having a seperate grfx chip, but i don't think that's happening now, well not yet at least
May 14 20:36:53 <koen> Hopscotch: and odd sized pixmaps
May 14 20:36:54 <Elrond> Hopscotch - Ahh. I haven't followed all those discussions.
May 14 20:37:34 <Hopscotch> webjames: yeah, harald was doing some conspirative negotiations
May 14 20:37:53 <Hopscotch> koen: don't wanna think about it - i have my own toolkit here which performs pretty fast
May 14 20:38:01 <Hopscotch> koen: sadly it's not client/server
May 14 20:38:19 <Hopscotch> Elrond: you don't want to :)
May 14 20:38:43 <webjames> Hopscotch: good luck harald 
May 14 20:38:53 <Hopscotch> :)
May 14 20:39:07 <Elrond> Well, a leaner GUI would be nice somtimes, but that's me.
May 14 20:39:48 <Hopscotch> Elrond: the gui is very nice - but it's too heavy for the neo...
May 14 20:40:01 <Elrond> Yeah.
May 14 20:40:30 <Elrond> Well, my current phone has a b/w GUI. Very good for reading.
May 14 20:41:46 <webjames> i have aD500, bit old now i suppose but very responsive
May 14 20:42:15 <pjz> the A780 is fairly decent, but it's only got 1/4 the pixelcount
May 14 20:42:29 <pjz> and it does get slow sometimes, though it's mostly decent
May 14 20:42:42 <Hopscotch> i have a nokia 9500 with "§&%§$/&§ symbian - which is also slooooooow
May 14 20:42:46 <Hopscotch> but still usable
May 14 20:43:18 <pjz> wow, is www.angstrom-distribution.org on the moon or something? sloooow site
May 14 20:56:13 * XorA is manically compiling packages for his P1
May 14 21:00:21 <Elrond> Hi woglinde!
May 14 21:01:19 <woglinde> hi elrond
May 14 21:01:33 <rillian> I was running 'make' with MokoMakefile,  but mtn failed to complete an update. What can I do to restart things?
May 14 21:01:44 <zecke> make?
May 14 21:01:51 <rillian> mtn: misuse: no such revision 'f499733e6db527846e1a48cf70f9862d6b3798ae'
May 14 21:01:51 <rillian> make: *** [openembedded/_MTN/revision] Error 1
May 14 21:02:05 <zecke> while true; make;
May 14 21:02:24 <zecke> rillian: well, did it work before?
May 14 21:02:35 <rillian> this is the first time I've run it
May 14 21:03:06 <zecke> rillian: what is the first error you get?
May 14 21:03:23 <rillian> zecke: $ make
May 14 21:03:23 <rillian> [ -e openembedded/_MTN/revision ] || \
May 14 21:03:23 <rillian>         ( mtn --db=OE.mtn checkout --branch=org.openembedded.dev \
May 14 21:03:23 <rillian>                 -r f499733e6db527846e1a48cf70f9862d6b3798ae openembedded )
May 14 21:03:23 <rillian> mtn: misuse: no such revision 'f499733e6db527846e1a48cf70f9862d6b3798ae'
May 14 21:03:24 <rillian> make: *** [openembedded/_MTN/revision] Error 1
May 14 21:06:29 <zecke> rillian: monotone.ca and consider doing a pull?
May 14 21:10:27 <webjames> rillian follow the manual setup on the wiki, make file doesn't work with qemu any more
May 14 21:22:04 <rillian> well, 'make update-makefile' did something, but now it's downloading OE.mtn.bz2 again :(
May 14 21:28:00 <webjames> rillian: yeah, it doesn't work. i have tried, if you goto http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/OpenMoko_under_QEMU#Manual_setup and just input the 3or so commands into terminal you will have it up and running
May 14 21:28:27 <webjames> rillian: don't forget the openmoko/download.sh and then openmoko/flash.sh
May 14 21:29:59 <webjames> rillian: also with mokemakefile you need to run 'make setup' with the manual way it is much faster
May 14 21:31:58 <XorA> robtaylor: gtk+ 2.10.12 and no alpha blended theme
May 14 21:32:18 <webjames> rillian: not to mention makemakefile doesn't work, but the manual way does
May 14 21:35:07 <robtaylor> XorA: ah, cool, so is sapwood on the menu?
May 14 21:35:16 <robtaylor> *again
May 14 21:38:05 <XorA> robtaylor: sapwood?
May 14 21:46:44 <dt1> Is the OpenMoko Neo1973 phone going to work in the US
May 14 21:46:53 <dt1> ?
May 14 21:46:53 <aloril> dt1: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.)
May 14 21:48:09 <SpeedEvil> It's a GSM phone, some carriers offer it
May 14 21:48:45 <dt1> But doesn't US and Japanese GSM use different frequencies than the rest of the world?
May 14 21:48:55 <SpeedEvil> It's a quadband phone.
May 14 21:48:59 <SpeedEvil> Anywhere there is GSM
May 14 21:49:03 <dt1> Awesome
May 14 21:49:34 <rillian> webjames: that worked, thanks!
May 14 21:49:37 <rillian> much faster too
May 14 21:49:40 <Elrond> US carriers sometime use this other thing, right?
May 14 21:49:46 <rillian> and looks just like the phone, only much bigger :)
May 14 21:49:54 <SpeedEvil> Elrond: yues
May 14 21:50:03 <sparq> Elrond: The US has a bunch of different protocols, of which GSM is one
May 14 21:50:14 <dt1> Is it possible to get one right now?  I have a lot of experience with OpenEmbedded on Zaurus's
May 14 21:50:19 <Elrond> sparq - Ahh.
May 14 21:50:24 <sparq> Elrond: Happily, they are slowly going away, one by one.
May 14 21:50:27 <SpeedEvil> dt1: a weekish
May 14 21:50:29 <SpeedEvil> maybe two.
May 14 21:50:39 <dt1> cool
May 14 21:50:43 <Elrond> SpeedEvil - You mean the non-gsm ones?
May 14 21:51:33 <Elrond> *arg*
May 14 21:51:41 <dt1> Aren't CDMA and PCS the other two biggest American types of carrier?
May 14 21:51:42 <Elrond> sparq - You mean the non-gsm ones?
May 14 21:52:01 <sparq> Elrond: Yeah.
May 14 21:52:29 <Elrond> Good for the neo. ;)
May 14 21:52:48 <sparq> Elrond: If I remember correctly, we used to have TDMA, CDMA, PCS, GSM, and two analog protocols.
May 14 21:52:51 <happycube> yeah there's basically CDMA and GSM at this point
May 14 21:53:00 <happycube> tdma towers get shut down in ~march 2008
May 14 21:53:04 <SpeedEvil> And the analogue standards.
May 14 21:53:07 <happycube> those too
May 14 21:53:18 <robtaylor> XorA: the pixmap caching server from hildon
May 14 21:53:18 * SpeedEvil tries to remember.
May 14 21:53:30 <happycube> which is pretty unfortunate since there are areas that only analog reached (until recently?)
May 14 21:53:33 <SpeedEvil> I think those went away in 1993ish
May 14 21:53:35 <SpeedEvil> (UK)
May 14 21:53:43 <XorA> robtaylor: no idea, just whatever Angstrom builds with
May 14 21:53:54 <SpeedEvil> GSM has a short range - 15Km radius or diameter.
May 14 21:53:59 <SpeedEvil> So you need a lot of places.
May 14 21:54:01 <dt1> Is the OpenMoko project in communications with Ubuntu, since they are attempting to establish another Portable platform
May 14 21:54:20 <dt1> ignore the caps there
May 14 21:54:34 <robtaylor> dt1: well, they're both based around the GNOME Embedded stach
May 14 21:54:41 <robtaylor> *stack
May 14 21:54:58 <sparq> I think PCS and CDMA are technically superior to GSM, but they shot it in the foot by making it really expensive to license and by designing it to bond the customer forever to one carrier.
May 14 21:55:13 <dt1> but Angstrom is using the pseudo Debianish tools right?  Or is it going to use dpkg and apt
May 14 21:55:37 <robtaylor> dt1: well, ipkg is roughly like dpkg
May 14 21:55:50 <robtaylor> dt1: but the distros are completely different
May 14 21:55:55 <dt1> right
May 14 21:56:14 <Elrond> sparq - Any two-sentence joe-dummy-can-understand comments why cdma/PCS are "technically superior"?
May 14 21:56:16 <dt1> Is there actually an advantage of ipkg of dpkg?
May 14 21:56:32 <dt1> I didn't think dpkg was really all that heavy either
May 14 21:56:56 <robtaylor> dt1: no, it isn't, but thats not really part of the equasion
May 14 21:57:01 <XorA> Elrond: well 3G is based on CDMA :-)
May 14 21:57:17 <Elrond> XorA - Ahh.
May 14 21:57:32 <robtaylor> dt1: debs produced from OE/Angstrom would be nothing like debs from ubuntu
May 14 21:57:54 <dt1> yeah, due to versioning differences and different configure options and stuff
May 14 21:57:57 <robtaylor> dt1: also, ubuntu mobile isn't actually building on arm, or even perticularly optimised yet
May 14 21:58:10 <XorA> Elrond: ETSI and 3GPP think they avoided qualcom patents, qualcom doesnt think they did, court battle is currently progressing
May 14 21:58:10 <robtaylor> dt1: well, due to the packaging being completely different
May 14 21:58:17 <dt1> Do they even have a target set yet?
May 14 21:58:26 <dt1> Hardware, I mean
May 14 21:58:41 <robtaylor> dt1: ubuntu? the intel thingie
May 14 21:58:46 <sparq> Elrond: More calls for the same slice of bandwidth.
May 14 21:59:04 <dt1> I guess I should read up more on it
May 14 21:59:23 <dt1> I just want one or two well established open Linux platforms
May 14 21:59:36 <dcorking> PCS is just a name for the digital cellular wavebands licensed in the US - including GSM 1900 - so I don't think it is superior
May 14 22:00:06 <aloril> (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[VibratorAsKeyboardClick]]
May 14 22:00:23 <dcorking> but CDMA makes more efficient use of spectrum than GSM
May 14 22:00:24 <sparq> dcorking: really? I'm pretty sure that PCS is a military protocol that Sprint licensed back in the early 1990's
May 14 22:00:29 <robtaylor> dt1: http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS2403415870.html
May 14 22:00:43 * sparq looks
May 14 22:01:02 <dt1> oh
May 14 22:01:04 <dcorking> interesting - when FCC announced PCS they announced the licensing process that brought in CDMA and GSM 1900
May 14 22:01:12 <dt1> well, not an issue then
May 14 22:01:16 <dt1> ;-)
May 14 22:01:28 <dcorking> but CDMA almost certainly has military history
May 14 22:01:41 <robtaylor> dt1: http://linuxdevices.com/news/NS4844817737.html
May 14 22:02:20 <sparq> dcorking: Ah. I think PCS stands for a band of spectrum *and* a protocol. It's an overloaded acronym
May 14 22:02:39 <dcorking> I don't think it is too important thought, as no-one outside the US uses the term PCS much ... 
May 14 22:02:51 <dt1> Cool
May 14 22:02:58 <dcorking> ... and I stand corrected - I didn't realise it had been overloaded like that
May 14 22:03:00 <don-o> robtaylor: cool. avahi/zeroconf is part of the stack.
May 14 22:04:14 <Elrond> What is all this avahi zeroconf hype about?
May 14 22:04:25 <dcorking> is it polite to ask how the may 10th production run is going?
May 14 22:04:25 <aloril> dcorking: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.)
May 14 22:04:34 <dt1> Eh, its just for people who don't like NetBIOS ;-)
May 14 22:04:58 <robtaylor> don-o: oh yes :)
May 14 22:05:00 <XorA> Elrond: plug stuff in, and it announces itself, your desktop can then find it easilly
May 14 22:05:11 <robtaylor> don-o: sson i expect HAL and Tinymail to be going in
May 14 22:05:12 <sparq> dcorking: I'm not sure it really counts as a correction, since I bet most pop-literature doesn't realize that there is a distinction. Baah. Stupid acronyms.
May 14 22:05:57 <Elrond> XorA - So the better netbios? ;o)
May 14 22:06:13 * sparq points at the Clock Tower and calls it "Big Ben."
May 14 22:06:17 <dcorking> sparq - is it true that the CDMA as used by say, Verizon, is not compatible with say, Sprint and Cingular?
May 14 22:06:25 <dt1> Yeah, service oriented anouncement/discovery
May 14 22:06:35 <XorA> Elrond: oh yes
May 14 22:06:39 <sparq> dcorking: yes, you are correct.
May 14 22:07:00 <sparq> dcorking: Even if they use the same protocols, the handsets are permenantly bonded to the network.
May 14 22:07:16 <dt1> Does the current rev hardware have 802.11?
May 14 22:07:23 <Elrond> Hmm, so I want a compile without that. ;)
May 14 22:07:39 <dt1> or is that even planned?
May 14 22:09:15 <dcorking> dtl - the Phase 1+ hardware has 802.11
May 14 22:09:40 <dt1> is that what's coming in 2 weeks or so?
May 14 22:10:49 <dcorking> dtl - no
May 14 22:11:07 * sparq drools over the prospect of a Neo with WiFi
May 14 22:11:15 * dt1 does also.
May 14 22:11:31 * don-o thinks GPRS is 'just fine'
May 14 22:11:49 * dt1 thinks don-o is crazy ;-).
May 14 22:12:21 <noidd> re
May 14 22:12:28 <sparq> I see lower phone bills in my future... and possibly building a stripped-down Ekiga client
May 14 22:12:37 <dt1> When wifi is around, thats what I want
May 14 22:12:45 <SpeedEvil> In hopefully under 2 weeks is the current version
May 14 22:12:53 <Elrond> It has BT, that should work for "network via air at home", no?
May 14 22:12:54 <SpeedEvil> the version with wifi is a couple of months out
May 14 22:13:00 <SpeedEvil> Yes.
May 14 22:13:01 <dcorking> dtl - see http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973  "Phase 1+ details  around June"
May 14 22:13:07 <SpeedEvil> But the range sucks.
May 14 22:13:17 <sparq> Elrond: Slowly. With crummy range and lots of fiddling.
May 14 22:13:24 <SpeedEvil> And there are no real existing hubs.
May 14 22:13:28 <dcorking> SpeedEvil: have you seen the WiFi chipset in action?
May 14 22:13:31 <pjz> but I mostly want net on my moko when I'm near a machine anyway
May 14 22:13:32 <SpeedEvil> No.
May 14 22:13:35 <pjz> er, fast net that is
May 14 22:13:36 <SpeedEvil> I mean bluetooth.
May 14 22:13:41 <Elrond> sparq - is it that bad?
May 14 22:13:46 <sparq> Elrond: Sadly.
May 14 22:13:53 <SpeedEvil> You may get better range with a 5m USB cable.
May 14 22:13:59 <SpeedEvil> Certainly better battery life.
May 14 22:14:16 <dt1> so bluetooth range sucks, but not wifi?
May 14 22:14:17 <dcorking> I will be happy with bluetooth and GPRS for the first few months
May 14 22:14:22 <Elrond> I will use a 5m usb cable anyway. :)
May 14 22:14:33 <SpeedEvil> wifi should be at least 30m or so.
May 14 22:14:41 <SpeedEvil> In clear areas.
May 14 22:14:41 <dt1> oh, thats not bad
May 14 22:14:43 <sparq> Elrond: Bluetooth is about good enough to use a wireless headset, but the protocol doesn't have any advantanges over WiFi other than that.
May 14 22:14:57 <SpeedEvil> sparq: design for low power.
May 14 22:15:04 <dcorking> we can also use a USB wifi dongle - if we can get power to it (I may have to learn to use a soldering iron :) )
May 14 22:15:15 <rwhitby> I use bluetooth for Treo650 access all over my house.
May 14 22:15:25 <rwhitby> (Treo650 internet access, not headset)
May 14 22:15:30 <SpeedEvil> dcorking: It may be possible to pull the bluetooth module, ans substitute a wifi one.
May 14 22:15:38 <rwhitby> (and also at my workplace)
May 14 22:15:40 <SpeedEvil> This will hurt battery life when enabled.
May 14 22:15:43 <sparq> SpeedEvil: True, but the 802.11 spec has enough flexibility to make a low power 2mbps chip that will happily interoperate with all modern hardware
May 14 22:16:19 <dt1> So how would one go about getting a unit to test out in a couple weeks?
May 14 22:16:22 <SpeedEvil> Bluetooth lets you by design turn off the radio completely for long periods.
May 14 22:16:25 <SpeedEvil> That helps lots.
May 14 22:16:34 <SpeedEvil> dt1: save up $350
May 14 22:16:46 <SpeedEvil> Or have a very good resume of work done
May 14 22:17:01 <dcorking> so no news on the May 10th run :(
May 14 22:17:06 <SpeedEvil> No.
May 14 22:17:15 <SpeedEvil> What's it for?
May 14 22:17:18 <SpeedEvil> oops
May 14 22:17:20 <dcorking> dtl - wait on the announce mailing list for the orders to be announced
May 14 22:17:58 <dt1> Eh, I've only contributed some to a few projects: inkscape, gphoto, firebird
May 14 22:18:02 <dt1> does that qualify me
May 14 22:18:07 <dt1> :-P
May 14 22:18:38 <sparq> rwhitby: You must have a fantastically clean radio environment!
May 14 22:18:50 <dcorking> dtl -as far as I understand you only need the cash to qualify for Phase 1
May 14 22:18:55 <dt1> haha
May 14 22:18:56 <dt1> ok
May 14 22:19:02 <dt1> not a problem anyways
May 14 22:19:21 <dt1> My work will get it for me
May 14 22:19:22 <dt1> :-P
May 14 22:19:41 <sparq> rwhitby: When I walk down the street in LA, there are so many WiFi networks chattering away in the 2.4 Ghz band that my Bluetooth headset is totally useless
May 14 22:19:45 <noidd> always nice to have access to a corporate checkbook :-})
May 14 22:19:53 <dt1> Does it have USB Host?
May 14 22:20:02 <Vegar> yes, but unpowered
May 14 22:20:15 <dt1> but with a powered hub its not an issue right?
May 14 22:20:35 <robtaylor> dt1: who's your work, if you don't mind me asking? :)
May 14 22:20:49 <XorA> anyone played with gprs on Neo?
May 14 22:20:58 <dt1> small company called Heavenly Photos
May 14 22:21:05 <arw> see you tomorrow 
May 14 22:21:11 <SpeedEvil> dt1: Most powered hubs will not actually talk to unpowered hosts.
May 14 22:21:21 <dt1> hmmm
May 14 22:21:22 <SpeedEvil> You need a little cable to apply +5V to the hub input.
May 14 22:21:49 <dcorking> how is that done SpeedEvil?
May 14 22:22:20 <SpeedEvil> Basically, you connect the red wire of the USB cable that plugs into the host side of the hub to some source of +5V
May 14 22:22:24 <dcorking> SpeedEvil: do I take a knife to a USB plug and splice in 5V and 0V from somewhere
May 14 22:22:28 <dt1> so the batter powered hub still needs the +5V?
May 14 22:22:32 <robtaylor> SpeedEvil: or to do a bit of soldering inside the hub
May 14 22:22:33 <dt1> battery
May 14 22:22:38 <SpeedEvil> Battery powered hubs probably don't.
May 14 22:22:50 <dt1> cool
May 14 22:22:53 <dt1> not an issue then
May 14 22:23:06 <XorA> The n770 guys solved the usb hub problem long ago, so google pages they wrote
May 14 22:23:07 <dt1> Is USB2 or 1.1?
May 14 22:23:14 <dcorking> are the conductor colours standard in USB cables?
May 14 22:23:15 <SpeedEvil> 1./1
May 14 22:23:33 <dcorking> 1.1 is fast enough for 802.11b (not g)
May 14 22:23:35 <SpeedEvil> dcorking: I've only ever seen black, red, green and grey
May 14 22:23:44 <SpeedEvil> black and red are +5 and 0
May 14 22:23:47 <SpeedEvil> err
May 14 22:23:48 <dt1> Man, I wish there was a decent portable USB2 High Speed host
May 14 22:23:49 <dcorking> SpeedEvil: I never cut one open :)
May 14 22:23:51 <SpeedEvil> otehr way
May 14 22:24:15 <dcorking> green and grey are data then
May 14 22:24:24 <SpeedEvil> yeah.
May 14 22:24:27 <SpeedEvil> D+ and D-
May 14 22:24:39 <SpeedEvil> Shield is seperate.
May 14 22:24:56 <Elrond> dt1 - The host part has not yet been test, I think.
May 14 22:25:14 <dt1> oh
May 14 22:25:37 <dt1> Well, thanks for the answers, guys, I gotta get going.  later
May 14 22:25:42 <SpeedEvil> Wave
May 14 22:25:54 <dcorking> googling as suggested - thanks XorA 
May 14 22:26:13 <dcorking> SpeedEvil: shield is uninsulated?
May 14 22:26:27 <SpeedEvil> No - it's connected to the shell of the connector
May 14 22:27:19 <dcorking> I just looked at N770 prices - now the same as a Phase 1 Neo1973
May 14 22:27:49 <dcorking> this is a hard choice for tiny Tablet PC - do I want one with WiFi or GSM ?
May 14 22:27:49 <Vegar> does the N770 have GSM?
May 14 22:27:55 <robtaylor> no
May 14 22:29:46 <dcorking> I won't buy one of each - I don't have the money or time to play with bothh!
May 14 22:29:57 <Vegar> then wait for P1+
May 14 22:30:40 <dcorking> I waited for 4 months for P1 - 
May 14 22:31:25 <SpeedEvil> The 770 has a much better screen though
May 14 22:31:52 <Elrond> Good night people. :)
May 14 22:31:56 <SpeedEvil> Night
May 14 22:33:35 <quitte> counter
May 14 22:33:35 <aloril> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 (uncertainty is a optimistic guess) P1: a day 18:43:11 (1.780 +-1.8 days) (1176;204)
May 14 22:35:44 <parag0n> P1: a day 18:43:11 <- hahaha, as if
May 14 22:36:07 <parag0n> i've seen that counter get to 0 too many times to trust it anymore :P
May 14 22:36:57 <don-o> parag0n: amen, brother.
May 14 22:38:15 <webjames> well i've got exams till thursday so i think friday would be nice if it were to carry news of the phase1 release and of the phase1+ information
May 14 22:40:50 <sparq> To avoid soldering (and potentially blowing up your hub and/or Neo) : http://www.siliconchip.com.au/cms/A_102685/article.html
May 14 22:41:13 <dcorking> googling suggests you can even buy a couple of cables to do the hack that SpeedEvil suggests - no home cutting and soldering of USB cables http://tabletblog.com/2006/01/no-solder-usb-host-method.html
May 14 22:41:50 <Vegar> that was a very 404 URL
May 14 22:42:18 <dcorking> Vegar: mine or sparq's ?
May 14 22:42:26 <Vegar> your
May 14 22:42:28 <Psi> dcorking, your urls works fine for me
May 14 22:42:41 <Psi> *url
May 14 22:43:24 <Vegar> works now
May 14 22:45:35 <dcorking> anyone know if the Neo1973 will work with a USIM (apparently a lot of new 2G phones work with a USIM) or with only an old 2G SIM ?
May 14 22:54:14 <don-o> oh man there are different SIM cards?
May 14 22:54:36 <Vegar> I believe USIM is a UTMS SIM card
May 14 22:55:00 <dcorking> right Vegar
May 14 22:55:47 <dcorking> I think you mean UMTS - which is the 3G evolution of GSM
May 14 22:56:00 <Vegar> yes, it was a typo
May 14 22:56:38 <Vegar> that reminds me..
May 14 22:56:56 <Vegar> my provider gave me a SIM card that supports 3G
May 14 22:57:13 <Vegar> I wonder what that means
May 14 22:57:28 <Vegar> because I can use it with my ancient phone
May 14 22:58:20 <dcorking> no - it is confusing - I think the engineers that really understand the difference are in high demand :)
May 14 22:58:31 <balrog-kun> does the modem always print the greeting and the OK everytime you open /dev/ttyS0?
May 14 22:58:46 * balrog-kun is wondering how the modem knows that you opened /dev/ttyS0
May 14 22:59:36 * sparq has been using the same SIM card since 2001
May 14 23:01:34 * loufoque has been using the same SIM card since 1999
May 14 23:01:55 * Vegar has a SIM card from 2001
May 14 23:02:27 <loufoque> my provider charges a ridiculously huge amount for 3G anyway
May 14 23:03:41 <dcorking> that is good to know folks - I think a will start with a PayG SIM - but as data is ridiculously expensive on that - I will also try a Hutchison contract USIM
May 14 23:03:54 <SpeedEvil> dcorking: where?
May 14 23:04:02 <dcorking> UK mostly
May 14 23:04:16 <SpeedEvil> Orange does data on PAYG for a pound a day.
May 14 23:04:22 <SpeedEvil> Which isn't bad for occasional use.
May 14 23:04:33 <SpeedEvil> Virgin does it for 7 quid extra a month on their contracts
May 14 23:05:13 <dcorking> thanks - I hear T-Mobile do a reasonable price on contracts too.
May 14 23:06:28 <dcorking> Three (Hutschision have £2.50 a month for 'mobile internet' - that means from the phone but not as  modem - if that works on an open phone it will be hard to beat)
May 14 23:09:46 <SpeedEvil> Three ban GSM only phones.
May 14 23:10:04 <SpeedEvil> They pay roaming charges for people using GSM handsets.
May 14 23:10:06 <Psi> loufoque, hm.. you made me think about sim cards, aren't there different voltage ones?
May 14 23:10:21 <SpeedEvil> It may work for a while.
May 14 23:10:49 <Psi> i seem to remember the old simcards were different voltage to the new ones
May 14 23:11:00 <Psi> but i could be thinking of something else
May 14 23:11:01 * Psi googles
May 14 23:11:23 <dcorking> Maybe that is why my 3 SIM doesn't work in 2G phones
May 14 23:12:57 <dcorking> I wanted to put my 3 SIM in a GSM phone because some places I work have very poor 3G coverage, yet the phone keeps trying to rove into 3G and gets disconnected.
May 14 23:13:37 <SpeedEvil> 3 will eventually ban your phone AIUI.
May 14 23:13:43 <dcorking> but no beef - so I am afraid it will be the same if I put my Three USIM in a Neo1973 
May 14 23:13:56 <dcorking> what is an AIUI ?  
May 14 23:13:59 * dcorking googles
May 14 23:14:08 <SpeedEvil> As I Understand IT
May 14 23:15:31 <dcorking> SpeedEvil:  :) - I thought you meant something like an IMSI or an IMEI , hehe
May 14 23:24:49 <dcorking> bye
May 14 23:25:14 <loufoque> Psi: no idea
May 15 00:17:54 <Sufflope> counter
May 15 00:17:54 <aloril> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 (uncertainty is a optimistic guess) P1: a day 17:51:01 (1.744 +-1.7 days) (1177;204)
May 15 00:18:14 <robtaylor> lol, right
May 15 01:50:57 <pjz> heya neostrider
May 15 02:51:56 <falls_huang> I received a neo1973, but how can I know the phone versions ?  handware version and software version ?
May 15 02:52:40 <falls_huang> my friends only give a phone without any direction
May 15 02:52:52 <roh> falls_huang is there a sti8cker in the battery holder?
May 15 02:52:56 <roh> -8
May 15 02:53:15 <falls_huang> yes
May 15 02:56:49 <roh> does it say something like gta01b_v4 above the battery?
May 15 02:57:50 <falls_huang> thank u , i got it:  version: 70-7gta01b-0003
May 15 02:58:11 <falls_huang>  version: 70-7gta01b-00003
May 15 02:58:18 <falls_huang> how about your version ?
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue May 15 02:59:58 2007