**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue May 15 02:59:58 2007 May 15 03:00:35 There are some info in my battery : Mode:　GTC-01/GTA-01 May 15 03:00:44 1200mAh May 15 03:03:17 roh, what's the Bps of the serial port of neo1973? 115200 ? May 15 03:03:45 its above the battery holder May 15 03:04:54 is there a sticker with a S/N on it? May 15 03:05:05 and a datecode above? May 15 03:05:55 my DATA CODE: 20070420 May 15 03:06:05 thank u , I got it . May 15 03:07:04 and below the datecode and s/n ther eis a extra sticker with something like gta01b_VX where x should be 3 or 4 May 15 03:07:46 this is the important number. because if you flash the u-boot it has to be the right one according to that number May 15 03:08:05 bv3 or bv4 are out there currently at some devels May 15 03:10:23 I followed the steps in http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Debug_Board , every step seemed ok, but I can't see any output in the debug serial , how about u ? May 15 03:10:55 my neo1973 version is gta01b_V4 May 15 03:12:12 you usually do not need the debugboard May 15 03:12:44 only if you killed the bootloader its there to unbrick it or to singlestep the kernel while developing drivers for example May 15 03:13:01 the updates to flash are done via dfu over usb May 15 03:13:20 you only need the miniusb-usb cable which ypou should have got with it May 15 03:16:36 thank u , but How can I copy program to neo1973 to run it ? how can I use gdb to debug the application ? I can't search any info in wiki :( May 15 03:21:35 falls_huang can't search? why? is something broken there? May 15 03:24:18 sorry, I was wrong , I mean I could not find any manual about how to use gdb to debug APP in wiki.openmoko May 15 03:29:01 ah.. i see.. you should have an gdb on the phone May 15 03:32:47 and there should be a complete tree of ipks with debug symbols (theyre big) May 15 03:33:20 so just plug the phone onto your computer via usb, set up usb networking and ssh into the phone and start your app within gdb May 15 03:38:45 i see, thank u. I think if I can boot neo1973 through nfsroot, then we will have an easy life :) May 15 03:42:00 nfsroot will be complicated because of thze slow usblink and the factor that its ethernet over usb at all May 15 04:08:22 openmoko: 03laforge * r1955 10/trunk/src/target/kernel/patches/ (s3c2440-nand-disable-hwecc.patch series): add patch to disable hardware ecc for the time being... May 15 05:49:44 <_ASK> hi May 15 05:52:38 <_ASK> hey, i was trying to run an experimental distro for the treo 650 and it refuses to boot, not matter what i try; do you think it could be that the kernel doesn't handle the fet32 sd well? May 15 06:00:04 <_ASK> oh yes, only fat16. May 15 06:24:36 counter May 15 06:24:36 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 (uncertainty is a optimistic guess) P1: a day 14:47:41 (1.616 +-1.6 days) (1178;205) May 15 06:29:26 ;) May 15 07:17:36 morning May 15 07:36:21 good morning May 15 07:53:19 counter_msg http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (guess: 35%) May 15 07:53:19 aloril changed counter prefix message to http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (guess: 35%) May 15 08:10:08 pretty pessimistic i reckon... 5% for never? i suppose for that some nokia/ericsson/... hired assassins need to kill the whole crew ;) May 15 08:10:42 well.. that 5% includes July too ;-) May 15 08:10:52 * aloril would put never into 1% maybe May 15 08:11:21 oh right. May 15 08:11:32 maybe less than 1% May 15 08:11:44 well 5% for july is actually not that unlikely i think^^ May 15 08:12:37 hmm.. yeah, maybe its too small number May 15 08:13:28 I'd put more probability for P1+ in 08-01- than 07-01 myself, but dunno obviously May 15 08:21:51 counter_msg http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (guess: 30%) May 15 08:21:51 aloril changed counter prefix message to http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (guess: 30%) May 15 08:22:02 updated page too, better now? May 15 08:23:05 maybe 2007-10-01 - never together should have more than 25% ? May 15 08:23:52 then bluetooth itself delayed P0 2-3 months? so.. current + 2-3 months is not that bad, but if there is some graphics acceleration update too... May 15 08:24:05 * aloril refers to P1+ May 15 08:25:18 hmm.. P1+ doesn't include tiny probability for < 2007-06-01, but I think that is less than 0.5% and thus 'noice' ;-) May 15 08:26:18 aloril: you should just change the counter to suspended pending announcments May 15 08:27:12 XorA: maybe May 15 08:27:33 if no announcements during next 3 days, then it will May 15 08:30:29 aloril: some people take the counter far too serious :-) May 15 08:30:50 indeed May 15 08:30:55 XorA: yeah, I will gradually lower probability though May 15 08:32:02 counter May 15 08:32:02 http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (guess: 30%) P1: a day 13:43:58 (1.572 +-1.6 days) (1179;204) May 15 08:32:38 counter_msg http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 30%) May 15 08:32:38 aloril changed counter prefix message to http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 30%) May 15 08:35:21 that guess about "setting up web shop" is based on this: "Selling direct to end users is a new thing for FIC." quote from Sean May 15 08:35:51 dunno if they would set it up themselves or get it from somewhere else May 15 08:37:55 * aloril thinks probability of ordering announcement during next 24h is biggest, then next 24h less, etc.. May 15 08:39:29 * aloril gets feeling from company people here that its Real Soon Now May 15 08:46:25 XorA: many on the other hand are calling counter to see "are there any new announcements" -sense May 15 08:51:34 aloril, It's so soon now i can taste it... Tastes like freshly produced semiconductor.... SHIT! i hope it's RoHS May 15 08:54:20 * XorA loads a flac file onto P1 phone to test sound May 15 08:55:08 i reckon the bots in here should be running on a neo May 15 09:11:59 counter_msg http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 35%) May 15 09:11:59 aloril changed counter prefix message to http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 35%) May 15 09:12:25 * aloril feels its a bit more likely during next 3 days than following 7 days May 15 09:14:02 Psi yeah.. all new electronics on this planet are mine.. HARR May 15 09:28:45 morning May 15 09:28:53 "" May 15 09:30:46 Heh. Someone in the OpenMoko admin universe likes Indian mythology. May 15 09:31:11 openmoko.org mail is handled by 10 sita.openmoko.org. May 15 09:31:19 openmoko.com mail is handled by 10 sita.openmoko.org. May 15 09:31:40 Domain servers in listed order: GANESHA.GNUMONKS.ORG ... May 15 09:34:27 :-) May 15 09:36:14 sparq laforges 'fault' ;) May 15 09:36:16 Does anyone from FIC wander ever join #openmoko? May 15 09:36:35 sparq i'm currently sitting in fic hq in taipeh May 15 09:37:27 but no, i cannot give you an update beside 'all hell broke loose since we started the project' and we are working very hard on getting working devices out to you guys. May 15 09:38:21 counter May 15 09:38:21 http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 35%) P1: a day 13:10:48 (1.549 +-1.5 days) (1180;204) May 15 09:39:23 sparq nobody has ever done such a thing before, so we have to invent some procedures while we are underway, which takes some time May 15 09:39:38 roh: yeah, that is why I was wondering May 15 09:40:19 roh: We're all eagerly waiting for some kind of official statement, even if it's just "Some phones have been produced an are now being tested" or so May 15 09:40:45 roh: Like a log of people, I'm so used to open source software, it seems very unnatural to "just wait" May 15 09:40:46 it's really not that we have forgotten you guys, but we try to get it done and are barely coping under the load of ideas and stuff falling onto us. May 15 09:40:55 * CM sneaks out for lunch May 15 09:41:17 roh: I'd bet! May 15 09:41:21 roh: Most importantly, don't burn out :) May 15 09:41:39 CM i will talk to sean when he gets out of the meeting, to give you guys atleast a litte trickle again. i know how important that is for you all. May 15 09:42:43 CM yeah. i sometimes really don't know how sean or harald do it ;) but i will make shure they will not kill themselves fot this project May 15 09:44:37 s/fot/for May 15 09:46:56 roh: I know that hardware is different, so I don't expect you guys to be able to keep the community updated all the time. I was just wondering if there were any FIC people around two whom I might communicate my encouragement. May 15 09:47:11 to whom, I mean May 15 09:48:09 having worked on long, difficult projects myself, I know how valuable a little encouragement can be May 15 09:48:35 :) May 15 09:48:56 where will we be able to buy the phones? will there be any notification on the main web site? May 15 09:48:57 Plasma_GR: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) May 15 09:49:55 Plasma_GR there will. propably we will set up the 'shop' on openmoko.com when ready May 15 09:50:15 nice, thankx May 15 09:54:11 roh: Actually, if you want to leak some key information to the channel... some data regarding restaurants in close proximity to the development team that deliver and accept credit cards... May 15 09:54:30 roh: Any chances of PCB pics of the V4 - are the reported I2C breakout pads there? May 15 09:58:46 roh: Just a thought. People who hack on open source projects are used to contributing something, so since we can't contribute patches, we might at least contribute lunch. ^_^ May 15 09:59:13 Oooh - capacative I2c sensors. Hadn't thought off them. May 15 09:59:52 * SpeedEvil wonders on the dielectric constant of the case. May 15 10:00:13 And thickness of course. May 15 10:00:36 SpeedEvil yeah on V4 there are spi and i2c lines on the debug connector and afaik also on small testpoints near it May 15 10:00:57 K. May 15 10:01:00 Thansk. May 15 10:01:14 sparq hehe.. if you are in berlin, braunschweig, taipeh or so on... ;) May 15 10:01:27 roh: and a GPIO line too? May 15 10:01:42 i dunno.. i will have to look that up May 15 10:01:52 Even if no GPIO, there are _MANY_ I2C-GPIO May 15 10:02:20 I heard something about an interruptable pin May 15 10:03:12 Morning May 15 10:05:23 oh my... i get almost nothing of what you talk about, im constantly copying stuff of your lines and query them on google May 15 10:05:37 ;D May 15 10:06:00 the funny thing is that im learning stuff through that lol May 15 10:06:07 heheh May 15 10:06:16 what do you want to know then? May 15 10:06:50 i wish i knew May 15 10:07:05 :P May 15 10:09:14 a multi touch screen is the one who can process more than one "taps" at a single time? May 15 10:09:23 Yes May 15 10:09:28 and record their location May 15 10:09:29 *which May 15 10:09:44 k, thankx May 15 10:09:53 and ultimately, their pressure too May 15 10:09:53 single touch ones report a single touch that's roughly at the centre of the bounding box of all touches May 15 10:10:02 Not all report pressure May 15 10:10:17 nope, that's why I said "ultimately" May 15 10:10:19 :P May 15 10:10:25 SpeedEvil: single touch reports depend also on pressure used - not have to be at center May 15 10:10:34 'roughly' May 15 10:10:37 Jeff Han's multitouch screen kicks ass :) May 15 10:10:58 hrw: in the center of pressure May 15 10:10:59 ;) May 15 10:11:38 It depends on the resistance the touch causes between the two sheets, and the resistance of the sheets May 15 10:11:56 if the resistance of the touch is very small, then it will be relatively pressure/area insensitive May 15 10:12:22 (in the case of multi-touches, it won't be greatly skewed to the heaviest touch) May 15 10:12:24 LuitvD yes.. there IS one line which is afaik an irq on the debug connector May 15 10:12:39 will be documented as soon as you guys get the devices. May 15 10:12:47 nice May 15 10:14:06 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[User:OleTange]] [[Wishlist:Text_Input]] May 15 10:14:22 LuitvD harald took care this happened ;) so he should get the beer for it May 15 10:14:37 lol May 15 10:15:33 btw.. if any of you guys see a shop where you can buy a 4gb micro-sd card and they REALLY have it and not only list it.. please say so. we cannot even find them here in .tw May 15 10:15:46 I need to buy REALLY good powered hub May 15 10:16:02 now I have two neos connected to powered hub and only one is charging.. May 15 10:16:34 hrw connect them to different hubs ;) May 15 10:16:49 roh: give me more space for it May 15 10:18:50 hrw theyre not big.. i have one here which yould fit 3 times in one cigarette pack May 15 10:19:22 I know. but I lack space for them May 15 10:20:06 I have big keyboard on desk, 20" lcd, 12" laptop, one speaker, two neos, usb hub, some developemt hardware... May 15 10:20:49 get another desk then :P May 15 10:21:00 LuitvD: first need another flat May 15 10:21:03 I should get a second one too... May 15 10:23:26 <[psy]> oh oh its mid may :P May 15 10:24:46 <[psy]> my motorola a780 is broken and i'm looking for a new gps enabled phone with linux May 15 10:25:09 <[psy]> cant wait to get me one of these :) May 15 10:28:41 hrw: http://www.ikea.com/ ? May 15 10:29:03 * LuitvD is off for a croque-monsieur :) May 15 10:31:07 sparq: I have limited space for desk May 15 10:34:14 hrw should i send you some stiky-tape for taping a 4x4cm usbhub into your cabling behind the 20"tft? ;) May 15 10:34:38 hrw: As do I. So I stuffed my office under my bed. Also, my LCD monitor has a powered hub built into it. May 15 10:35:28 roh: Extensive googling seems to indicate that "Micro-SD" and "4GB" are mutually exclusive charataristics May 15 10:35:54 at least, outside the realm of press releases May 15 10:38:17 mickey|moving: hey! May 15 10:40:48 roh: ;) May 15 10:40:52 roh: but idea is nice May 15 10:45:54 sparq, you can preorder the 4GB cards May 15 10:46:00 so they should be out soon May 15 10:46:00 openmoko: 03laforge * r1956 10/trunk/src/target/kernel/patches/hxd8-core.patch: * HXD8: fix IRQ constant for PCF50605 IRQ (Matt Hsu) May 15 10:50:50 ossman: There are a few people on eBay selling them, if you want to risk it. ^_^ May 15 10:51:30 they have already preordered them and they are waiting for someone to buy then get the product and send it to the buyer May 15 10:52:34 or want to gather money May 15 10:53:58 this cant be safe as the other way May 15 10:54:56 Plasma_GR: More likely, they will send you a 2GB card, and then insist that this is what you were bidding on all along. May 15 11:11:19 HEY GUYS ITS MID MAY May 15 11:11:28 * parag0n sits and taps his foot May 15 11:20:42 oh noes May 15 11:22:36 i never remember the current date and when someone reminds me i'm like oh shit, all the things i had on my TODO planned to be done last month May 15 11:30:15 counter May 15 11:30:16 http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 35%) P1: a day 12:14:51 (1.510 +-1.5 days) (1181;205) May 15 11:30:21 anyone here using mokomakefile? May 15 11:30:32 long time ago May 15 11:31:15 make setup never succeeds... 10k of 19k "certs in" May 15 11:31:19 then mtn: error: I/O failure while talking to peer monotone.openembedded.org, disconnecting May 15 11:31:44 bmidgley oh.. how fast is your internet? May 15 11:32:08 well it should be bursting to 4Mbps May 15 11:32:47 but it has to start over on the next attempt May 15 11:32:56 it's going to get all 19k or nothing May 15 11:35:52 bmidgley, just look in the makefile and manually do the mtn pull part and co part, skipping the parts that download and unpack the database snapshot May 15 11:36:32 after that you could touch the build/mtn-file (don't remember what it's called) May 15 11:36:50 I wonder how many Microsoft patents Openmoko violates :D May 15 11:37:26 does it use subpixel font rendering? May 15 11:38:02 think it does... actually May 15 11:38:37 the kernel already does 42 patents May 15 11:39:16 bmidgley, the Makefile is a little crude...if it has done the complete mtn part it skips it, but if something fails somewhere in the middle of it...it whipes all files and start all over, makes no consideration about that mtn pull takes several hours :P May 15 11:39:28 IMAO at 280 dpi the subpixel stuff might as well be disabled :] May 15 11:40:06 mjr: what's wrong with a little bit of overkill? :P May 15 11:40:40 I wonder how many DPI the human eye can scan at 50cm distance :P May 15 11:41:23 true though that the good thing about overkill is that it works ; May 15 11:42:50 * LuitvD still thinks 285DPI is an insane dot pitch :P May 15 11:43:56 damn microsoft is being a bitch... May 15 11:44:09 one supposes that sp rendering eats some extra cycles and therefore power though May 15 11:44:46 good thing about this is that you can disable it ;) May 15 11:44:56 yeah May 15 11:45:08 damn I hate Microsoft May 15 11:45:22 * XorA suspects that as its turned off be default of freetype we can all not worry May 15 11:45:39 they're simply showing a bad side of FOSS that isn't present, to keep their customers May 15 11:45:56 and microsoft, well, they're just looking to be the next sco apparently May 15 11:46:06 yeah, I think so May 15 11:46:16 but they're simply lieing May 15 11:46:26 err. lying May 15 11:46:31 err... May 15 11:46:55 they're saying things that aren't true May 15 11:47:22 "pay attention to these patents behind the curtain" May 15 11:47:30 I sure hope many of Microsoft's clients will see that, and turn it down May 15 11:48:17 it's like saying "you killed 235 people... but I'm not gonna say who and when" May 15 11:49:03 it's just stupid May 15 11:49:23 microsoft is just buying itself some time to make more money May 15 11:49:56 I think its their last bid before software patents bite the dust May 15 11:50:06 yeah May 15 11:50:09 they have to name the patents eventually May 15 11:50:22 until then we can just continue as if nothing happend May 15 11:50:22 it's pure FUD indeed May 15 11:51:35 IMO it's quite an extraordinary number May 15 11:51:39 just stay in .eu countries that ignore software patents May 15 11:52:17 nah, just don't pay any attention, that's the right thing to do May 15 11:53:15 if these claims are an act of FUD, then it's just something to ignore May 15 11:53:58 I bet less then 10 of those patent claims will stand after they named each individual patent that is infringed May 15 11:54:56 and I'm sure the open source software will simply discard any features that violate any MS patents May 15 11:55:29 or rewrite/reproduce it in a way that doesn't violate the terms May 15 11:56:06 (script) openmoko-devel: Harald Welte Re: Request for an EABI agpsd package and/or binary May 15 11:59:05 * arw hello to all May 15 11:59:55 hi May 15 12:00:23 :) May 15 12:01:06 (script) openmoko-devel: Harald Welte Re: RFC: machine customized ixp4xx NPE firmware May 15 12:02:24 parag0n, don-o: upper limit for counter has never gone to zero yet ;-) May 15 12:02:38 (for P1) May 15 12:02:40 counter? May 15 12:02:41 http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 35%) source: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/MokoMakefile ; P0: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Wishlist:Neo1973_P0_Review; a day 11:58:38 (1.499 +-1.5 days) for devices for *ANYBODY* for $350 (targeting developers) (preorders: not yet) (2007-05-15); 4 months (123.998 +-15.0 days) for mass market (2007-09-15): see topic for more info (1182;205) May 15 12:02:48 now it has May 15 12:02:49 :D May 15 12:03:58 aloril2: so this means the guess is that it can be released between right now, and 3 days from now? May 15 12:04:16 The counter, it knows nuffink! May 15 12:04:23 :P May 15 12:04:28 LuitvD: I think behdad or some other text rendering guy said that after 300dpi most people can't see the pixels May 15 12:04:49 LuitvD nope, upper limit for P1 is 3 days away May 15 12:05:12 so it WILL be released within 3days? or is that still only the guess? May 15 12:05:49 SpeedEvil: we should have a counter that counts the times the counter has counted the wrong way May 15 12:05:51 Guess. May 15 12:06:01 There has been no announcement. May 15 12:06:01 roh: Thanks, and keep up the good work! :) May 15 12:10:42 LuitvD: 3 days without announcement would mean that upper limit for counter would have been exceeded for first time May 15 12:11:02 hehehe May 15 12:11:22 still doesn't say a thing does it? the upper limit has been adjusted countless times too... May 15 12:11:35 counter has been roughly as often wrong as there has been delays May 15 12:12:46 To recast the debate - has the counter ever been right? May 15 12:13:33 we wont know that until theres a release announcement May 15 12:13:41 yes, about P0 and announcement (well almost for later one) May 15 12:13:58 if its within the next 3 days, then its been right since the last announcement May 15 12:14:09 *since the last change May 15 12:14:40 also I have now 'split' counter now to pieces: one of those is bound to be right (see web page) ;-) May 15 12:14:49 openmoko: 03laforge * r1957 10/trunk/src/target/kernel/patches/gta01-core.patch: * add GSM Modem wakeup IRQ handler May 15 12:15:06 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Wish_List]] May 15 12:15:31 currently assigning 35% probability for next 3 days, which of course is just guess May 15 12:16:42 So it's been right for what - 1% of the time? :) May 15 12:21:47 yeah, reflects unexcepted delays :-( May 15 12:22:47 if there is delay until next year, then current guess is 97% wrong ;-) May 15 12:23:02 openmoko: 03laforge * r1958 10/trunk/src/target/kernel/patches/gta01-power_control.patch: add power_vdd_core_1v5 as temporary kludge to support broken old GLL with wrong syfs filename May 15 12:29:57 * LuitvD is waiting for the announcement of 430-day :) May 15 12:32:03 yay, minimo on the Neo May 15 12:32:30 minimo? May 15 12:32:45 mo >> mozilla? May 15 12:33:06 thought minimo was windows-ce May 15 12:33:08 runs pretty fast May 15 12:33:13 err, win mobile May 15 12:33:18 LuitvD: well then you thought wrong :-D May 15 12:33:40 pretty nice :) May 15 12:44:27 XorA: 128MB ram makes mozilla products happy May 15 12:45:07 :) May 15 12:45:37 I wonder what the amount of ram on the ROKR E6 is May 15 13:31:16 tag May 15 13:32:56 guten May 15 14:06:11 SpeedEvil: I recall seeing pics of v4 at [[Neo1973_Hardware]] page May 15 14:07:03 Ah - must have missed it, I've been polling [[special:recentchanges]] rather than looking at pages May 15 14:09:21 so is that what was produced 5 days ago? May 15 14:10:16 Some Oh - right. May 15 14:10:24 It's been a while. May 15 14:10:32 With shielding May 15 14:28:05 Hi, everyone May 15 14:28:18 'lo May 15 14:28:33 hi May 15 14:28:58 counter May 15 14:28:58 http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 35%) P1: a day 10:45:29 (1.448 +-1.4 days) (1183;205) May 15 14:29:01 howdy May 15 14:29:21 I just noticed there are new images in ../tmp/deploy; time to update my phase 0. May 15 14:29:22 hi May 15 14:29:22 *sigh* May 15 14:36:34 there are new images roughly every 24h :) May 15 14:37:25 balrog: where? I see may-01, and then may-14. May 15 14:37:38 I hope to get voice calls to work... May 15 14:38:00 wow May 15 14:38:04 pavelm: oh, someone's computer must have had problems May 15 14:38:42 voice calls is easy May 15 14:38:50 pavelm, Did you have difficulty getting a voice call to work? May 15 14:39:15 balrog: Ok, I wish them good luck with compilation server :-). May 15 14:39:23 nnpiggy: It did not work in may-01 version. May 15 14:39:44 xora: voice is easy, data is easy... so what reemains, GPS? May 15 14:39:49 Ah. I haven't loaded that yet--I'm still playing with the image that came with my P1. May 15 14:39:50 Anyway... May 15 14:40:04 I believe openmoko's UI is misdesigned. May 15 14:40:11 nnpiggy: Do voice calls work ok there? May 15 14:40:14 Yeah, GPS. Have you played with Werner's input hack yet? May 15 14:40:30 Yeah, I really had no trouble making voice calls with the original image. May 15 14:40:35 ..it has too small features to be controlled by finger. Is there way to talk to someone from UI team? May 15 14:40:44 nnpiggy: What is Werner's input hack? May 15 14:41:10 ... there's small bar at bottom, and small bar at top; both are too small to press with finger. May 15 14:41:15 It's a full alphanumeric input device on the touch screen. It's circular... May 15 14:41:32 first voice call I ever made had massive feedback the deafened half the office :-) May 15 14:41:38 Yeah, I've noticed a weird mixture of stylus-only controls and finger-accessable controls. May 15 14:41:40 then I remebered where the speakers are May 15 14:42:01 ...I believe we should merge them -- create one bigger bar, so that finger control is possible in system tray. May 15 14:42:07 XorA: LOL May 15 14:42:13 nnpiggy: Do you have screenshots? May 15 14:42:24 Ah. The sound quality on the neo end was kind of dodgy--it sounded like they weren't using the noise cancelation microphone... May 15 14:42:24 I created my own input hack... with python, ran it over ssh :-). May 15 14:42:37 nnpiggy: ...or program to try? May 15 14:42:52 XorA: that's the fun of having a speaker on the sides or the back of a phone :P May 15 14:42:55 Not yet, pavelm. I have a cute animation of unpacking the box which I should have posted by Thursday. May 15 14:43:17 * XorA has 4 neos on this desk, its getting rediculous May 15 14:43:25 * LuitvD is glad the ringtone-speaker on his DECT phone is on the back May 15 14:43:27 Oh. Hang on, pavelm. I'll find Werner's code... May 15 14:43:33 XorA: GIMME ONE ... :| May 15 14:43:50 XorA: they're not all yours are they? May 15 14:44:16 LuitvD: no, 2 technically belong to FIC May 15 14:44:38 DAMN I want one too :P May 15 14:44:51 LuitvD: a few more days Im sure May 15 14:44:51 but I want a MOTOROKR E6 too :P May 15 14:45:03 * XorA wants a Samsung f700 with linux May 15 14:45:11 openmoko: 03thomas * r1959 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/openmoko-libs/ (4 files in 2 dirs): May 15 14:45:11 openmoko: * libmokoui/moko-message-dialog.c: (moko_message_dialog_map): Check for May 15 14:45:11 openmoko: NULL before using g_object_unref(), as the inbuilt assertion is not May 15 14:45:11 openmoko: available in openembedded. May 15 14:45:11 openmoko: * libmokoui/moko-stock.c: May 15 14:45:12 openmoko: * libmokoui/moko-stock.h: May 15 14:45:16 openmoko: Add two more stock items May 15 14:45:36 http://www.almesberger.net/misc/openmoko/inwheel-1.tar.gz May 15 14:45:37 XorA: YES! May 15 14:45:51 the ROKR E6 runs linux already... and if that distro doesn't like me (or the other way around) I'll try to hack a new kernel on it to run moko on it :) May 15 14:45:55 what's the current kernel? May 15 14:45:55 letoams: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) May 15 14:46:15 hehe May 15 14:46:22 I'm an oldie here! May 15 14:46:27 bastard bot :P May 15 14:46:29 letoams: on FIC Neo or Moto ROKR E6? May 15 14:46:37 fic May 15 14:46:43 screw hacking phones. I'm tired of it May 15 14:46:47 lol May 15 14:46:51 anyone wants to buy my parawireless :) May 15 14:47:07 LuitvD: motorola phones and "runs linux already" is crap May 15 14:47:22 koen: I know that :P May 15 14:47:26 i just dont want to waste any more time on stupid vendors May 15 14:47:32 motorola didn't even release the source for the kernel on the e6 May 15 14:47:37 koen: but I think I'll actually like that OS for the time being May 15 14:47:41 I'd rather invest it to make things like crypto completely integrated in openmoko May 15 14:48:13 and when it's starting to get annoying, I'll try to switch to a newer kernel May 15 14:48:15 so what's the current state of mokomakefile ? May 15 14:48:26 can i wget it on a i686 and finish a build now? :) May 15 14:48:51 look at the mokomakefile page on the wiki letoams ;) May 15 14:48:52 * letoams needs to test the NAT-T ipsec kernel patch on 2.6.2x May 15 14:49:00 what's with the anti-dash propaganda at http://www.openembedded.org/wiki/OEandYourDistro? May 15 14:49:08 that will just say "it works like sliced bread" :P May 15 14:49:25 it would be better to just say "our shell scripts are broken, please downgrade your shell" than make up some kind of argument May 15 14:49:53 why broken? May 15 14:49:59 alp: tell it to software authors which hardcode bashisms in their scripts and then use /bin/sh on them May 15 14:50:21 e.g. perl May 15 14:50:22 hrw: yeah, the page links to a troll article though May 15 14:50:49 anyway, it's a wiki May 15 14:50:56 koen: good point May 15 14:51:09 koen: perl we have patched now iirc May 15 14:51:40 5.8.8 is supposed to fix the bashisms May 15 14:51:58 gcc and/or binutils also have a bashism somewhere May 15 14:52:03 the dread -Qy problem May 15 14:52:09 dreaded* May 15 14:52:28 this is the bit that's lame: "Dash is a light-weight shell (read as limited functionality - see also: http://fragglet.livejournal.com/9110.html " May 15 14:52:50 alp: it is wiki - feel free to fix? May 15 14:52:59 hrw: i just did May 15 14:53:39 Has anybody else shot themselves in the eye with the laser pen? :-) May 15 14:53:41 nnpiggy: Hmm, it will compile here, but segfault because of missing dependencies. May 15 14:54:22 lol. wasn't there somebody on the list some time ago who complained that the laser pen was too dangerous? May 15 14:54:34 yeah May 15 14:54:44 I haven't played with it yet pavelm--my home RAID array is giving me grief due to a controler driver with bitrot, so my OpenMoko play has been kind of limited so far... May 15 14:54:44 hehehh May 15 14:55:30 I don't know how dangerous it actually is, but I had not realized that I had the habit of LOOKING at my pens when I pull them from my shirt pocket... May 15 14:55:46 nnpiggy: I do not believe it is dangerous. May 15 14:56:00 ...but not willing to shoot myself to prove it :-) May 15 14:56:19 I am :P May 15 14:56:23 But it is somewhat painful. I wonder around for 20 minutes with a green dot on my left FOV. May 15 14:56:34 wander that is (not wonder) May 15 14:56:52 I've stared in multiple low-mW laser pointers, with no damage, not even temporary May 15 14:56:55 shine the laser on your lcd and camera lens May 15 14:56:57 * nnpiggy watches as LuitvD attempts to blind self... May 15 14:58:10 There's no doubt that the laser pen is the biggest hit in the box with my kids (at least so far)... May 15 14:58:34 They'll make fine construction workers ;) May 15 14:59:23 I think I have somewhat insensitive eyes, coz' I can look at the sun directly too... May 15 14:59:36 Hm, I'd be careful with that. May 15 15:00:01 Because, eventually, they'll become _very_ insensitive if you keep doing that :D May 15 15:00:07 I was also amused at the list of applications they asked for: firefox, pingus, FOTAQ, and gimp.... May 15 15:00:39 SuN: so I can't look at you anymore? :( May 15 15:00:56 Not recommended LuitvD. The damage is cumulative. May 15 15:01:14 nah, I've insensitive eyes, with incredible level of detail (since I've got my glasses) May 15 15:01:25 my dad has that too :P May 15 15:01:42 s/I've/I've got/ May 15 15:01:48 Is your dad Stevie Wonder? May 15 15:01:59 lol, possibly May 15 15:05:52 Glancing blows from 5mW or under lasers don't really do damage. May 15 15:06:06 Staring into the beam for long periods is a bad idea. May 15 15:06:27 staring into s/ LuitvD meant: staring into <2mW is quite allright actually... May 15 15:06:44 And it's also safe - from a thermal damage - point of view to cameras May 15 15:06:50 5mW can do some damage May 15 15:07:16 the sun does more damage then <2mW lasers May 15 15:08:47 A 5um spot on a silicon chip from a laser pointer only heats it by a couple of C May 15 15:09:16 nice May 15 15:09:34 Silicon is quite conductive on that scale. May 15 15:09:41 Even though the absolute intensity is huge. May 15 15:10:11 5 square µM isn't much May 15 15:10:15 µm May 15 15:11:32 is that the projected spot of a laser beam when it's in-focus? May 15 15:15:09 tried may-14 version, and no, phone does not work :-( May 15 15:17:26 ...any news about GPS? May 15 15:17:31 I'm gone.... preparing for my dutch and maths exams tomorrow May 15 15:17:38 bye y'all May 15 15:18:13 Good luck May 15 15:18:27 thanks :) won't need it though May 15 15:18:43 Hah, self-confident? May 15 15:18:50 VWO? May 15 15:18:50 I only need a 4 out of 10 :P May 15 15:18:55 yeehaa May 15 15:18:56 Ahh, nice. May 15 15:19:05 yes, VWO May 15 15:19:07 Always nice to start your exams with those odds. May 15 15:19:07 and it sucks May 15 15:19:13 I know :) May 15 15:19:32 I can even get a 1/10 for one class... May 15 15:19:40 so that my average is 4/10 :P May 15 15:19:43 Although I found the exams pretty easy compared to the stuff our school put us through. May 15 15:20:00 I don't know, haven't had my exams yet May 15 15:20:07 :D May 15 15:20:10 my first two tomorrow May 15 15:20:27 and then english tuesday May 15 15:20:34 Well that depends on your school, our school made the pre-exams fairly hard so you're prepared pretty well. May 15 15:20:37 and then nothing for a week May 15 15:20:54 Yeah, it's like that. My exams were pretty relaxed :D May 15 15:20:58 did you do VWO old style, or new? May 15 15:20:59 Better than a normal week. May 15 15:21:04 Yep, last year old style. May 15 15:21:09 lol May 15 15:21:15 which classes? May 15 15:21:51 Economics, physics, English/German/Dutch, history, math (a). May 15 15:22:09 eww ;) May 15 15:22:14 yuck May 15 15:22:14 Sort of a half-beta program. May 15 15:22:27 ALL of them? Heh May 15 15:22:35 yuck about economics and history, not physics May 15 15:23:04 I've got N&T (Physics, Chemistry and Maths) May 15 15:23:04 I don't know, both of those have had a good influence on the way I perceive society :D May 15 15:23:39 and Dutch, a bit of german, bit of french, bit of history, and English (which everybody has got) May 15 15:23:54 I didn't care much for chemistry and maths at the time (still don't really do). May 15 15:24:10 Oh yeah, the 1 and 2 variants. Weird system. May 15 15:24:26 I just chose the profile with the least history, geography or economics :p May 15 15:24:54 not really "1 and 2" May 15 15:25:02 it's 1 or 1,2 actually May 15 15:25:05 I would have liked geography but they made you write lots of papers, etc. so I didn't choose that. May 15 15:25:28 I just chose what was easy for me May 15 15:25:37 never learnt for those classes May 15 15:25:37 Hm, they should have called it "German" and "German Lite" or something. May 15 15:25:56 and now i've got averages of 7 or more on each class May 15 15:26:02 Yeah, just take your BINAS and figure it out on the exam, heh. May 15 15:26:21 don't need my BINAS until 2 weeks from now May 15 15:26:28 Oh that's right, you can use programmable scientific calculators as well. May 15 15:26:43 yeah :) that too May 15 15:27:14 which is nice, if you actually can program them (which I really can, and only 1 or 2 other people in my class) May 15 15:27:22 then you go to university where calculators aren't allowed May 15 15:27:23 Dude, back in the days... you actually had to do something ;D May 15 15:27:42 koen: you're wrong twice there May 15 15:27:50 Heh May 15 15:27:53 no, I'm not May 15 15:28:01 calculators aren't allowed here May 15 15:28:04 koen: I won't go to univ, and I can use them in my study ;) May 15 15:28:18 FIrstly, they're not calculators but pens, and secondly, they ARE allowed! May 15 15:28:36 Did anyone get that? Heh May 15 15:28:51 now I'm really gone :P May 15 15:29:00 SuN: not really :P May 15 15:29:02 I had the luck of breaking my calculator in highschool, so I had to do without one a few months :) May 15 15:29:03 explain May 15 15:29:07 I thought you didn't have to learn? :D May 15 15:29:49 Well... it's weird. But I was saying the "calculator" premise was wrong, so replaced it with something else, which consequently was allowed so the second part is invalid too. May 15 15:29:52 Never... mind. May 15 15:30:35 koen: you must have lost an awful amount of time,. May 15 15:30:53 actually not May 15 15:31:12 it's faster to draw sin(x) with a pencil than to wait on the calculator to do it May 15 15:31:31 Oh, graphical calc. May 15 15:31:48 yes May 15 15:31:49 Back in the days :) we had to manually calculate points along the curve. May 15 15:31:53 ti-83 May 15 15:33:35 The only thing I was allowed to use was a TI-30XS. May 15 15:34:08 fx82-super fraction May 15 15:34:14 that one rocked May 15 15:37:23 Our GPS friends write quality software :-(. May 15 15:37:23 root@fic-gta01:~/gps$ ./gllin May 15 15:37:23 *** glibc detected *** ./gllin: double free or corruption (!prev): 0x001ca190 *** May 15 15:39:26 Plus, they expect different /sys layout than the one currently present :-( May 15 15:40:40 pavelm: hi May 15 15:42:04 pavelm take a look at commit #1958 ;) May 15 15:42:27 Heh, for some reason only the weird people had Casios. May 15 15:42:49 Not the geeks or anything, just the... weird people. May 15 15:42:49 I had one May 15 15:42:55 Heh, sorry. May 15 15:42:57 Hi, hrw. May 15 15:42:58 :) May 15 15:43:03 Are you the one doing ui design for openmoko? May 15 15:43:23 * XorA had a casio May 15 15:43:25 I think I had one too :] May 15 15:43:29 * XorA aims to kill SuN May 15 15:43:30 pavelm: I have that sysfs layout on the p1, but it's different on p0 May 15 15:44:19 ph5: I may be wrong. It seems to hit the right files eventually. May 15 15:44:39 roh: Sorry, my svn-fu is not strong enough. What is commit 1958? May 15 15:44:53 roh:... aha, that's one release back. May 15 15:45:06 roh: That probably means I need _very new_ kernel for gllin to work, right? May 15 15:45:29 http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/commitlog/2007-May/001720.html May 15 15:46:09 i dunno what gllin is and where its from but there was a patch to fix the gl stuff tapping the wrong sysfs regs today.. thats all i'm saying May 15 15:46:15 ;) May 15 15:46:44 roh: Aha, yes, that's what I was seeing. I guess I can just edit the binary? May 15 15:47:27 pavelm ofcourse ;) since the right path is shorter... just don't forget the 0x0 at the end ;) May 15 15:47:27 pavelm: yeh, that should work. May 15 15:57:56 ph5: I did hand editing, but it still behaves as it did before :-( May 15 15:59:05 chroot + ln May 15 15:59:09 job done May 15 15:59:33 pavelm: it still tries to open the wrong sysfs file? May 15 15:59:46 ...it opens all the right sysfs files, but still does not seem to work. May 15 15:59:59 ah ok, that's what I've observed on my p0, too :( May 15 16:00:54 it ends with May 15 16:00:56 root@fic-gta01:~$ ./gllin-new -low_debug cold -np May 15 16:00:56 Stack size 8864 bytes (9 KB) May 15 16:00:56 root@fic-gta01:~$ May 15 16:01:42 pavelm: rm /tmp/nmea* May 15 16:02:33 I always run ./gllin -i and attach strace on a second screen. May 15 16:03:21 Hmm, does this mean it will try to connect to the web? May 15 16:03:24 -g glsupl1.glpals.com May 15 16:03:56 Hehe. May 15 16:03:59 Command: 00:37:15: handle = 1 - Start processing single shot request May 15 16:03:59 Fatal error with GPS HARDWARE May 15 16:04:05 ..should I move it closer to the window? May 15 16:04:26 gtg, cu May 15 16:04:31 pavelm: only with assisted/based functionality turned on, there are parameters for that. May 15 16:04:37 pavelm the web stuff afaik is for getting the agps data to get a faster lock. but it should work completely without web acces... the it just takes longer for the initial fix May 15 16:05:24 roh: right, depending on how good your reception is. indoors it doesn't download LTO data at all here. May 15 16:06:19 yep. i've never tried our gps, but i know from old sirf3 stff that it even works bad near windows when you don't have a free sky May 15 16:06:25 I think the Fatal error happens when it times out without getting an answer from the chip. May 15 16:07:00 Remember, the antenna is opposite to the hole May 15 16:07:10 it couldn't hurt to prop it up with the lanyard hole down May 15 16:08:02 ah.. and try switching off bluetooth on bv3 .. since then the antenna for bt was located directly behind the gps one May 15 16:08:14 ..I do not think it communicates with gps chip at all :-( May 15 16:09:18 ...yep, it reads single byte from /dev/ttysac1 May 15 16:10:13 pavelm try changing all sysfs calls to e.g. /tmp dummys and switch the gps on by yourself. propably the gl guys ignored that out kernel keeps track of the power-on/off sequencing itself and does not need any complicated userspace calls for that May 15 16:11:57 roh: So what is enough to power the gps up? May 15 16:12:54 there should be one sysfs entry for it which you need.. i think its already documented in the wiki.. mompls May 15 16:13:51 it should be "echo 1 > /sys/bus/platform/devices/gta01-pm-gps.0/power_sequence" May 15 16:16:06 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Buying_Interest_List]] May 15 16:16:15 openmoko: 03thomas * r1960 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/applications/openmoko-dialer/src/ (8 files): (log message trimmed) May 15 16:16:15 openmoko: * openmoko-dialer/src/dialer-window-dialer.c: May 15 16:16:15 openmoko: * openmoko-dialer/src/dialer-window-incoming.c: May 15 16:16:15 openmoko: * openmoko-dialer/src/dialer-callbacks-connection.c: May 15 16:16:15 openmoko: * openmoko-dialer/src/dialer-window-incoming.h: May 15 16:16:16 openmoko: * openmoko-dialer/src/dialer-callbacks-connection.h: May 15 16:16:19 but it doesn't work here. May 15 16:16:20 openmoko: * openmoko-dialer/src/dialer-main.c: May 15 16:16:35 pH5 try power_on ;)in that location May 15 16:16:55 like on gsm May 15 16:17:15 if I replicate the gllin sequence (as in linuxtogo.org/~ph5/tmp/hhtest.c), it works on the Bv4, but not on the Bv3 May 15 16:17:41 there is no power_on in there, at least in the 2.6.20.7-moko8 kernel May 15 16:17:48 ph5: could you link your c-file from "hammerhead protocol" wifi entry? May 15 16:18:00 I do have pwron here. May 15 16:18:06 I'll have to go, soon. May 15 16:18:06 aaah.. bv3 ... that i do not know if it ever was working May 15 16:18:15 pavelm: pwron is only one of the needed pins May 15 16:18:29 and i dunno if much work will go in there at all. May 15 16:18:33 ron: aha, too bad. Are there differences between bv3 and bv4? May 15 16:18:41 ron .. in gps area? May 15 16:18:58 hopefully bv4 arrives soon. May 15 16:19:14 a lot of internal powerlogic changes. just look at the pmu code .. propably you can figure it out, but i cannot help much there due to differen reasons May 15 16:20:28 ron: Yeah, I see you have to care about the future :-) May 15 16:21:51 we will take care to support and keep support on sold devices, but i do know that propably all support for intermediate developer models will be dropped at some point where it makes sense to keep the level of needed code differentiation down May 15 16:22:39 nobody wants to read an ifdef hell anyways May 15 16:25:31 what I'd really like to know is whether GPS ever worked on a Bv3. maybe it isn't even connected correctly. May 15 16:27:27 it worked afaik. but i think not with that specific binary May 15 16:28:43 * buz reads the backlog and wished engineers would be forced to take some econ classes May 15 16:29:02 real econ, not business May 15 16:29:52 ph5: yes, it was working even in Bv2, or v4 before that. just every revision with different power sources and thus power sequencing requirements May 15 16:30:17 ph5: just look at the power management code in the kernel :( May 15 16:30:29 and now neither roh nor myself will spend any further time on this May 15 16:30:37 roh, LaF0rge : ok, thanks. so we just have to figure out the correct sequence? May 15 16:30:40 buz *hush* we are.. but with china airlines thats ok for people with not that long feet ;) */hust* May 15 16:31:04 hm are there serval suspend mode May 15 16:31:18 ? May 15 16:31:27 you guys do whatever you want, we do our job. May 15 16:31:30 apm -s dont disable the screen complete May 15 16:32:11 n8 guys.. have to sleep now May 15 16:32:17 he okay May 15 16:32:18 night May 15 16:32:21 nite roh May 15 16:32:24 night roh, sleep well May 15 16:35:26 hi *, FYI sean was sending a mail on the community list about delays May 15 16:38:30 what do you mean by "was sending" May 15 16:40:42 The mail received about 15minutes ago ... May 15 16:41:45 ah i found the mail May 15 16:42:21 http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2007-May/005241.html May 15 16:42:24 for everyoe else May 15 16:42:56 aloril: counter update time :-) May 15 16:44:53 ah great... not May 15 16:44:59 * SpeedEvil kicks the counter two weeks down the street. May 15 16:45:38 @XorA: nice next time I will do the same :) May 15 16:45:40 *sigh* May 15 16:46:03 well, at least we know now May 15 16:46:19 Sean has Murray Walker syndrome May 15 16:48:06 ~lart delays May 15 16:48:06 * apt whips out a hot clue gun and makes sure that delays is stuck to the floor May 15 16:48:17 ouch, that was the wrong thing to do, apt May 15 16:48:44 now we wont ever get it May 15 17:04:58 counter? May 15 17:04:58 http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 35%) source: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/MokoMakefile ; P0: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Wishlist:Neo1973_P0_Review; a day 09:27:29 (1.394 +-1.4 days) for devices for *ANYBODY* for $350 (targeting developers) (preorders: not yet) (2007-05-15); 4 months (123.788 +-15.0 days) for mass market (2007-09-15): see topic for more info (1184;205) May 15 17:05:15 my greatest fear is to get a P1 then have it be discovered that a hardware defect prevents it from making calls or some other major defect that only new hardware can fix. May 15 17:05:45 so i guess im saying its okay for the hardware platform to be slow in coming. May 15 17:06:02 although i thought FIC would have enough money to make this happen more or less on time. May 15 17:07:43 part of the appeal of this phone, for me, was to get one before the iPhone came out. May 15 17:08:01 does that really matter? May 15 17:08:17 yes and no. i only have the money for one expensive phone May 15 17:08:36 the neo costs about 30% of the iphone -.- May 15 17:08:42 true true :) May 15 17:08:57 don-o: they might have enough money, but do they have money to waste? May 15 17:09:24 Vegar: im not very familiar with the issues of fab production runs May 15 17:10:05 well, the neo might be a tech-gadget for freaks and foss fans :) but I'm sure following versions based on open hardware and openmoko will get a success May 15 17:10:54 One thing I'd like to do is build a new, more compact casing in Solidworks... maybe output it on the SLA machine May 15 17:11:10 I printed out the paper doll, and the thing is huge May 15 17:11:45 I'll even post the Solidworks file... open source industrial design :D May 15 17:12:35 crackfiend: awesome. photos of the output of the SLA would also be interesting May 15 17:12:49 since i cant print my own. :( May 15 17:13:14 hi May 15 17:13:22 counter May 15 17:13:22 http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 35%) P1: a day 09:23:17 (1.391 +-1.4 days) (1185;205) May 15 17:14:25 I asked the guys for the original 3d files, but I'll have to get out the calipers and measure this one out May 15 17:23:41 crackfiend: you have board sizes/configurations? May 15 17:23:58 crackfiend: because I'd love to have a more compact Neo May 15 17:24:16 ...not that my Nokia 6620 is exactly small, mind you. May 15 17:28:38 No I don't May 15 17:29:01 As soon as I get a neo in my hands, I'll be disassembling it, taking measurements May 15 17:29:18 Or if somebody else has that info, it'd be greatly appreciated May 15 17:31:36 crackfiend: read wiki? May 15 17:33:33 hrw: where on the wiki? May 15 17:34:49 wiki.openmoko.org May 15 17:35:50 hrw: hehe, yeah I got that part. ;) I didn't see anything there besides a few photos. I need precise measurements May 15 18:11:11 counter May 15 18:11:11 http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 35%) P1: a day 08:54:23 (1.371 +-1.4 days) (1186;205) May 15 18:18:59 the neo isn't that big y'aal May 15 18:19:26 that depends i guess May 15 18:19:31 compared to my p900 it's ok i guess May 15 18:19:45 compared to a samsung ulta 5.9 probably not May 15 18:20:06 well, sure, but case designs also mean we could get one CNC milled out of aluminum or something fun like that May 15 18:20:11 <_llll_> the samsung runs an open operating system? May 15 18:20:26 actually, I'd like a case with a flip-lid to cover/protect the screen May 15 18:20:43 to avoid needing to put it in a bag before putting it in my pocket May 15 18:20:58 touchscreens are surprisingly resilient May 15 18:21:06 my p900 always lives unprotected in my pocket May 15 18:21:08 well, sure May 15 18:21:12 did that for 3.5years now May 15 18:21:18 doesnt seem to mind it much May 15 18:21:19 but no sense taking chances if it's possible to not do so May 15 18:22:35 Well, I have one in my hands right now and it really doesnt feel that big May 15 18:22:56 'cause it isn't May 15 18:22:58 mind you, the other phone I'm carrying (for work) is a blackberry May 15 18:23:05 people just get caught up in the miniatyrization wave May 15 18:23:07 screen is a bit on the small side compared to the whole phone May 15 18:23:24 mjr: I agree May 15 18:23:44 buz, true. I'll live with it. May 15 18:23:57 like I said, even aside from miniaturization, how about a design with an integral hinged flap? or one that will hold a stylus ? May 15 18:24:10 yeah bay for the stylus is baaaadly needed May 15 18:26:29 gcad3d looks like it could be useful May 15 18:45:06 (script) planet: Stefan Schmidt: OpenMoko LUG BS talk appointment shift http://www.datenfreihafen.org/~stefan/weblog//archives/2007/05/#e2007-05-15T20_20_29.txt May 15 18:53:45 counter May 15 18:53:45 http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 35%) P1: a day 08:33:06 (1.356 +-1.4 days) (1187;205) May 15 19:22:42 * rycuda can barely wait. May 15 19:25:37 * mintee too May 15 19:30:48 counter_msg http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2007-May/005241.html May 15 19:30:48 aloril2 changed counter prefix message to http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2007-May/005241.html May 15 19:32:23 XorA: thanks (made blunder in modifying sean mail filter and thus didn't trigger (should be OK now)) May 15 19:50:26 SpeedEvil: counter has been so far pretty accurate when you think about it as counter until next news ;-) May 15 19:55:24 are the specs for Phase 1.5 out yet? May 15 19:59:51 nope May 15 20:01:48 counter May 15 20:01:48 http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2007-May/005241.html P1: a week, 4 days 15:58:09 (11.665 +-5.0 days) (1188;205) May 15 20:04:05 oh, how i wish it'd hit 0 :'< May 15 20:05:54 P1 isn't even out yet? May 15 20:06:07 wasn't it supposed to be out in april? May 15 20:07:15 oh, there was yet another delay May 15 20:08:38 the first estimate I got was end of february ;) May 15 20:10:04 can someone tell me how to add files to quilt? May 15 20:10:20 i have new dir full of files and i need to convert them to patches May 15 20:45:56 (script) planet: Marcin "hrw" Juszkiewicz: NSLU2 joined under-desk machines http://blog.haerwu.biz/2007/05/15/nslu2-joined-under-desk-machines/ May 15 21:05:43 500$ for 4gb and 600$ for 8gb Iphone...that makes the neo1973 and openmoko even more attractive :O May 15 21:06:29 SrRaven: those prices are tied to an expensive 2-year contract aren't they? :P May 15 21:07:01 SrRaven: Isn't the SD card given with the neo 1973 only 512 MB? That's quite far from 8 GB. May 15 21:07:15 There are no 8G microSD cards May 15 21:07:24 http://www.boygeniusreport.com/2007/05/14/att-iphone-not-to-be-pre-sold/ for more info on that May 15 21:07:49 yeah but I just mean for a real touchscreen pda May 15 21:08:06 Interesting: http://butterfeet.org/?p=26 May 15 21:08:25 For simulating higher dpi on a normal monitor May 15 21:08:35 the iphone isn't just a phone or a pda May 15 21:08:38 it's an ipod May 15 21:08:41 your projects sounds pretty interesting May 15 21:08:44 with phone capabilities May 15 21:08:45 * SpeedEvil shouts into the loudhailer 'Back away from the monitor!" May 15 21:09:07 ;) i really like the idea of an opensource mobilephone May 15 21:09:14 loufoque: it's a multitouch-video-ipod with phone capabilities May 15 21:09:39 your neo 1973 smartphone can act as a mp3 player though, but you'd better get a 2 GB microSD card then (which costs a lot) May 15 21:09:41 though for the 'video'-being it lacks the amount of memory May 15 21:09:50 what do you call 'a lot May 15 21:10:07 Well. It's not that bad. May 15 21:10:29 $50 May 15 21:10:56 CM: that's really interesting May 15 21:11:17 CM: even looks nice on 320x240 (the resolution used in that example) May 15 21:11:39 LuitvD: Yes, and the Neo with Xoo is huge on a normal monitor May 15 21:11:52 yeah :P May 15 21:11:56 I wonder if there are 4GB microSD cards May 15 21:12:09 CM: with either Xoo or QEMU May 15 21:12:30 IMO. 140kbit video, with 64kbit audio is quite adequate for pohone use. May 15 21:12:42 CM: it's a nice hack May 15 21:13:19 For around 11 hours on a gig May 15 21:13:22 that's mpeg2 May 15 21:13:28 gtg now May 15 21:13:31 see ya May 15 21:16:11 what will the neo1973 cost? May 15 21:16:11 Bish: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) May 15 21:16:18 cool xD May 15 21:16:22 whata pimp-bot May 15 21:16:28 counter May 15 21:16:28 http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2007-May/005241.html P1: a week, 4 days 14:43:29 (11.614 +-5.0 days) (1189;205) May 15 21:16:43 $350 May 15 21:16:51 3 weeks or so May 15 21:35:14 counter May 15 21:35:14 http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2007-May/005241.html P1: a week, 4 days 14:24:43 (11.600 +-5.0 days) (1190;205) May 15 21:50:07 ah glad to see it got bumped out the standand two weeks. May 15 22:02:45 ;) May 15 22:16:55 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Talk:MokoMakefile]] May 15 22:35:39 hi May 15 22:36:09 hi :) May 15 22:36:13 you joined nslu2 too :) May 15 22:36:40 oops no, you didn't May 15 22:36:44 (ignore :) May 15 22:46:15 xkr47: actually, I did May 15 22:47:01 well you didn't join, just say hello :) May 15 22:48:43 hi LaF0rge, how are things ? May 15 22:51:07 right May 15 22:57:46 is someone whos involved in the debian package of qemu hanging around these parts? May 15 22:57:46 juri_: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) May 15 22:58:05 I don't suppose ben dooks hangs around in here? May 15 22:58:50 ossman: His nick is fluffs and he doesn't it seems. At least atm May 15 22:59:23 ok, thanks May 15 22:59:37 fluffs... almost sounds a bit dirty... May 15 22:59:42 heh May 15 23:16:24 hey stefan.. how's openezx coming? May 15 23:16:47 pjz: Slow progress, but progress. May 15 23:17:27 stefan_schmidt: what's the best help a random dev can be? May 15 23:17:35 pjz: 10 minutes ago we found out that the E6 is pretty similar to E2 and A1200 and were able to boot a kernel with plain 2.6.21 plus one patch :) May 15 23:17:49 pjz: hmm, good question May 15 23:17:50 I've got the hardware, but it's running brokenish firmeware May 15 23:17:56 is there a way to reflash it from linux? May 15 23:17:58 pjz: What phone? May 15 23:18:01 A780 May 15 23:18:08 ok, same here May 15 23:18:24 pjz: What do you mean with brokenish? May 15 23:19:24 stefan_schmidt: well, I have (I think) the taiwan phone, no gps, no edge(?) so I tried to enable edge by putting on some chinese firmware and it works... less than well :) May 15 23:19:53 I forget what versions of the AP & BP stuff I put on May 15 23:21:04 pjz: Let me first tell some rules. May 15 23:21:33 pjz: We are not talking about flashing illegal obtained software on the phones May 15 23:22:15 pjz: We like to stay clean, no talk about such things like downloaded illegal firmware May 15 23:22:22 sure May 15 23:22:33 pjz: Just the rules :) May 15 23:22:45 I'd much rather run something open, I was just trying to get EDGE working :) May 15 23:23:01 lets move to #openezx May 15 23:23:08 pjz: yes May 15 23:32:35 any idea if during the June ~6 distrobution, if it will come with wifi and upgraded things, if it will cost more then the $350 it is now? May 15 23:32:35 P1.5 will likely have WiFi (Atheros AR6K): http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/announce/2007-April/000012.html http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ#Q:_What_is_the_rationale_behind_the_exclusion_of_WiFi.3F (WiFi status for P1.5 will be known for sure when P1 becomes available and also what kind of discount for P1.5 is given for P1 buyers) May 15 23:36:01 heh, june 6th //may// be the date for phase 1 devices May 15 23:36:57 counter May 15 23:36:57 http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2007-May/005241.html P1: a week, 4 days 12:23:00 (11.516 +-5.0 days) (1191;205) May 16 00:43:58 hello folks May 16 01:06:34 so, it turns out all of the TomTom GO series also have accelerometers May 16 01:07:38 I'm having problems with mokomake May 16 01:07:42 anyone can help me? May 16 01:12:49 oh well, not all, only the GO, GO500 and GO700 May 16 01:13:03 ?? May 16 01:30:38 koen? May 16 01:59:17 re May 16 02:00:12 hey May 16 02:01:01 morning May 16 02:01:38 its 23 PM here hehe May 16 02:02:30 1002 here May 16 02:03:25 hey..im having some issues with mokomakefile May 16 02:03:29 can you helpme? May 16 02:04:18 good night May 16 02:05:34 good night May 16 02:06:19 counter? May 16 02:06:27 ,counter May 16 02:09:53 http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2007-May/005241.html source: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/MokoMakefile ; P0: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Wishlist:Neo1973_P0_Review; a week, 4 days 09:50:11 (11.410 +-5.0 days) for devices for *ANYBODY* for $350 (targeting developers) (preorders: not yet) (2007-05-26); 4 months (123.410 +-15.0 days) for mass market (2007-09-15): see topic for more info (1192;206) May 16 02:16:29 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Neo1973]] [[Bootloader]] **** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed May 16 02:59:57 2007