**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri May 25 02:59:57 2007
May 25 03:17:48 <aloril> counter_msg http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 50%)
May 25 03:17:48 <aloril> aloril changed counter prefix message to http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 50%) 
May 25 03:18:06 * aloril is beginning to suspect it won't be May
May 25 03:27:02 * mwester has $5 that says it won't be the first half of June, either!
May 25 03:31:23 <aloril> still week left in May, should be enough to produce & test & make available for ordering (or at least first 2 ones)
May 25 03:31:39 <aloril> or at least for first one ;-) (supposedly takes a day)
May 25 03:33:27 <aloril> that is of course "everything goes well" -scenario
May 25 04:02:20 <bmidgley> if I change bluez-utils.inc, will bluez-utils get rebuilt by mokomakefile
May 25 04:02:27 <bmidgley> or do I need to clean something out
May 25 04:22:17 <aloril> (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[MokoMakefile]] [[User:2luxe]] [[Buying_Interest_List]]
May 25 04:35:01 <chreekat> what are the last numbers displayed on the counter?
May 25 04:35:05 <chreekat> counter
May 25 04:35:05 <aloril> http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 50%) P1: 3 days 15:42:26 (3.654 +-3.7 days) (1272;212)
May 25 04:35:10 <chreekat> the 1272;212
May 25 04:35:51 <aloril> chreekat: see http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter#About_counter
May 25 04:36:05 <chreekat> aloril: ah, oops, hadn't scrolled to the bottom
May 25 04:56:35 <Ohmm> Hello everyone
May 25 04:58:00 * Ohmm is curious if Sean Moss Pultz  is around?
May 25 05:06:04 <guaqua> haven't seen him here
May 25 05:06:26 <guaqua> or maybe he is, but hasn't been taking part in the conversation
May 25 05:07:38 <Ohmm> I understand, thank you.. my voip provider wont let me call out to taiwan.. hehe so trying an alternative method :)
May 25 05:12:13 <aloril> sean did visit here twice I think, second time talked shortly too
May 25 05:12:45 <Ohmm> ok, i'll find him somehow :)
May 25 05:15:13 <guaqua> if you really have to get a hold of hime you probably should e-mail him
May 25 05:16:11 <Ohmm> we have been keeping in touch for the last little while actually, its just he had personally requested that I contact him... having a challenge making an international call from here... :/
May 25 05:29:17 <Rakshasa> morning
May 25 06:19:29 <gasofred> Hi, I've download and compile qemu-neo1973, but after execute the flash.sh, what script should I use to start the qemu?
May 25 06:19:30 <aloril> gasofred: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.)
May 25 06:23:23 <gasofred> Hi, I've download and compile qemu-neo1973, after execute the flash.sh, what script should I use to start the qemu?
May 25 07:01:10 <dottedmag> virtuoso: ÎÁÓÞ£Ô wmii'ÝÉËÏ×: * John-Galt holds to his contention that sleep is for suckers
May 25 07:14:29 <TRIsoft> morning
May 25 07:19:47 <Hopscotch> good morning
May 25 07:37:53 <hrw> morning
May 25 08:44:00 <Fletch_work> counter
May 25 08:44:01 <aloril> http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 50%) P1: 3 days 13:37:58 (3.568 +-3.6 days) (1273;212)
May 25 08:44:32 <pvanhoof> mickey|lunch, ping :)
May 25 09:33:06 <Stephmw> hey guys
May 25 09:40:15 <Stephmw> who headed Angstrom again?
May 25 09:58:53 <cheesy> counter
May 25 09:58:54 <aloril> http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 50%) P1: 3 days 13:00:32 (3.542 +-3.5 days) (1274;212)
May 25 10:01:10 <cheesy> the dazs are so long
May 25 10:01:17 <cheesy> days
May 25 10:02:29 <LuitvD> on this counter, some days take -48 hours :P
May 25 10:02:52 <LuitvD> and some days come by twice :P
May 25 10:04:22 <sparq> Anything interesting happen in the last couple of days? I've been trapped under a rock with a textbook for most of the week.
May 25 10:09:44 <Sufflope> counter
May 25 10:09:45 <aloril> http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 50%) P1: 3 days 12:55:06 (3.538 +-3.5 days) (1275;212)
May 25 12:11:56 <kiney_> counter
May 25 12:11:56 <aloril> http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 50%) P1: 3 days 11:54:00 (3.496 +-3.5 days) (1276;212)
May 25 12:22:50 <CIA-23> openmoko: 03thomas * r2086 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/applications/openmoko-dialer/src/dialer-window-outgoing.c: openmoko-dialer: use correct gsm event for when an outgoing call is rejected
May 25 12:25:48 * ar1 helo to all
May 25 12:26:02 <ar1> helo/hello
May 25 12:51:48 <aloril> LuitvD: half of time is used for reducing uncertainty and another half for decreasing time
May 25 12:54:32 <ewon> counter
May 25 12:54:32 <aloril> http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 50%) P1: 3 days 11:32:42 (3.481 +-3.5 days) (1277;212)
May 25 12:55:22 <aloril> (and every day without news I consider it less probably for counter to be correct)
May 25 13:10:53 <bmidgley> no soundcards found! argh
May 25 13:11:11 <bmidgley> I figured out how to build the bluetooth audio server in, how to route gsm to it...
May 25 13:11:20 <bmidgley> and now the soundcard has disappeared entirely :(
May 25 13:13:26 <XorA> bmidgley: oops forget about your email
May 25 13:13:49 <bmidgley> ?
May 25 13:14:25 <XorA> bmidgley: you are Brad?
May 25 13:14:33 <bmidgley> yeah
May 25 13:14:54 <bmidgley> oh about routing system audio to bluetooth?
May 25 13:15:00 <XorA> bmidgley: then you sent me a mail about bluethooth stuff
May 25 13:15:12 <bmidgley> ok
May 25 13:15:22 <XorA> bmidgley: feel free to make new state files, audio system is out of my control now its in mainline
May 25 13:16:08 <bmidgley> I could make one but I'll need to study how things work first
May 25 13:16:16 <bmidgley> might be a guess
May 25 13:16:52 * XorA doesnt have any working bluetooth
May 25 13:17:06 <XorA> bmidgley: just grab the datasheet for 8753
May 25 13:17:36 <bmidgley> ok...
May 25 13:18:05 <bmidgley> so it makes sense to call it "capturebluetooth.state"?
May 25 13:18:19 <XorA> bmidgley: I named the orinigal states by random
May 25 13:19:14 <nnpiggy> counte
May 25 13:19:18 <nnpiggy> counter
May 25 13:19:18 <aloril> http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 50%) P1: 3 days 11:20:19 (3.472 +-3.5 days) (1278;212)
May 25 13:25:06 <bmidgley> XorA: ok
May 25 13:25:57 <bmidgley> is there a workaround for broken audio in recent images?
May 25 13:30:06 <XorA> bmidgley: wait a minute Ive just realised what you said, a bluetooth to VOIP wouldnt go anywhere near the codec anyway
May 25 13:30:18 <XorA> bmidgley: broken audio? works for me
May 25 13:30:50 <bmidgley> XorA: my mokomakefile-built image when booting says "no soundcards found"
May 25 13:31:48 <Elrond> bmidgley - What kernel do you use?
May 25 13:32:24 <bmidgley> 2.6.21-1-moko10
May 25 13:32:26 <Elrond> .oO(I'll update the kernel wiki page this evening, I think)
May 25 13:32:40 <Elrond> bmidgley - Built your own, or downloaded?
May 25 13:32:51 <bmidgley> home built mokomakefile
May 25 13:35:01 <Elrond> Hmm, assuming it's identical to the downloadbale kernel: You need to add the appropiate moudles to your rootfs _and_ modprobe them.
May 25 13:35:17 * XorA builds an image
May 25 13:35:23 <Rince> Hm. MokoMakefile stops with an error here. 
May 25 13:36:13 <Elrond> Rince - Works for me to the point that I get a arm cross compiler (which is all *I* need)
May 25 13:36:39 <Rince> okay, my cc has a bug:
May 25 13:36:52 <Rince> (gcc that is)
May 25 13:37:02 <Rince>  arm-linux-gcc: Internal error: Getötet (program cc1)
May 25 13:38:20 <hrw> Rince: Getötet... that tells everything...
May 25 13:38:46 <hrw> or in other words - was ist getötet?
May 25 13:39:37 <Elrond> hrw - "killed" ;)
May 25 13:40:02 <XorA> sounds like OOM
May 25 13:40:05 <Rince> oom?
May 25 13:40:10 <XorA> Out Of Memory
May 25 13:40:11 <hrw> out of memory
May 25 13:40:21 <Rince> hm
May 25 13:40:49 <Elrond> XorA - Rince usually has more RAM than I (in my home box), so I don't think, it's OOM.
May 25 13:41:17 <Rince> well, that machine has 1gb ram right now
May 25 13:41:27 <Rince> free 350M
May 25 13:41:29 <Elrond> I guessed right. ;)
May 25 13:41:40 <XorA> should be enough as long as you close the pr0n borwser :-)
May 25 13:41:53 <Elrond> My box at home has 256MB. And arm-linux-gcc could happily built libc6.
May 25 13:41:56 <Stephmw> XorA: hey, that's a vital work tool!
May 25 13:41:58 <Rince> XorA: that is my mailserver; most of the ram is exim
May 25 13:42:02 <Stephmw> XorA: for err... working.
May 25 13:42:17 <XorA> Stephmw: keyboard environment testing :-)
May 25 13:42:20 <Rince> (or used by mailman/python)
May 25 13:42:33 <Elrond> Rince - angua?
May 25 13:42:38 <Rince> Elrond: angua is dead; luggage
May 25 13:42:45 <Elrond> Yeah, right. ;-)
May 25 13:42:46 <Rince> but you know that machine anyway :)
May 25 13:43:38 <Elrond> It's 64bit, right (I usually don't care too much for arch ;o) ).  In the past, openmoko did not like 64bit host machines. ;o)
May 25 13:43:53 <Stephmw> XorA: it's a good way to practice ambidextry
May 25 13:44:02 <XorA> everything apart from qemu should run fine on 64bit
May 25 13:44:14 <bmidgley> Elrond: which modules do I need to add? we need this in the wiki :)
May 25 13:44:18 * XorA has 64 bit machines
May 25 13:44:38 <XorA> shouldnt need any audio is built into kernel
May 25 13:44:38 <Elrond> bmidgley - I posted the list days ago... it's on my home box (which is off ;) ).
May 25 13:44:53 <Elrond> XorA - No. audio is now in modules. ;-)
May 25 13:45:07 <jeddy3_> can anyone build qemu from mokomakefile?
May 25 13:45:08 <Elrond> 4 or 5 modules.
May 25 13:45:15 <XorA> Elrond: genius sounds like someone forgot to update the modules.conf files then
May 25 13:45:40 <bmidgley> and the required modules should be in the default rootfs
May 25 13:45:48 <bmidgley> shouldn't have to be copied over
May 25 13:45:59 <Elrond> bmidgley - They are... for the bit older kernel-image. ;o)
May 25 13:47:17 <Elrond> bmidgley - If you can wait 2 hours: I'm going home soon (want to buy some ice cream first), then I'll give you the list and put it on the wiki.
May 25 13:47:36 <bmidgley> Elrond: excellent
May 25 13:48:36 * Elrond considers trying the neo in the sun, to see, if it's really that worse. ;)
May 25 13:48:45 <Vegar> yes, do it
May 25 13:48:50 <Vegar> do it now
May 25 13:48:54 <Elrond> (I have it with me at work. ;) )
May 25 13:49:23 <mitsuhiko> new bad news i don't know so far?
May 25 13:49:37 <Elrond> mitsuhiko - Huh, why?
May 25 13:50:14 <mitsuhiko> just asking :)
May 25 13:50:20 <mitsuhiko> i have a highlight on worse :)
May 25 13:50:54 <Elrond> mitsuhiko - *lol* No new bad news. :-)
May 25 13:51:27 <Elrond> bmidgley - Does the brightness control work on your Bv04?
May 25 13:51:50 <bmidgley> Elrond: how does the brightness control work
May 25 13:52:33 <Elrond> cd /sys/class/backlight/gta01-bl && echo 1000 >brightness
May 25 13:52:57 <Elrond> (works only, if the backlight is already on)
May 25 14:00:27 <Elrond> Okay, I'm going home now. :-)
May 25 14:00:37 <Elrond> 'll be back in two hours.
May 25 14:02:03 <Rince> see you Elrond
May 25 14:03:06 <bmidgley> Elrond: fwiw, brightness control doesn't work
May 25 14:07:37 <XorA> bmidgley: hmmm, modules are missing from rootfs
May 25 14:08:32 <CIA-23> openmoko: 03thomas * r2087 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/applications/openmoko-dialer/src/ (3 files): 
May 25 14:08:32 <CIA-23> openmoko: openmoko-dialer:
May 25 14:08:32 <CIA-23> openmoko:  * Remove threads init from dialer-main.c
May 25 14:08:32 <CIA-23> openmoko:  * Update journal entry on incoming CLIP
May 25 14:08:32 <CIA-23> openmoko:  * Commit journal after incoming call
May 25 14:15:51 <bmidgley> XorA: I'm not sure whether to file a bug or just document the workaround on the mokomakefile page
May 25 14:15:53 <bmidgley> maybe both
May 25 14:19:12 <XorA> bmidgley: file a bug
May 25 14:24:18 <aloril> (script) planet: Holger "zecke" Freyther: RSS Reader updates http://zecke.blogspot.com/2007/05/rss-reader-updates.html
May 25 14:24:55 <ewon> counter
May 25 14:24:55 <aloril> http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 50%) P1: 3 days 10:47:31 (3.450 +-3.4 days) (1279;212)
May 25 14:56:02 <CoreDump|home> hi
May 25 15:05:22 <thomasg_> yeah, now a on screen keyboard module is available for enlightenment dr17. I'm really looking forward to see e17 running on *my* neo (which I hopefully will own soon)
May 25 15:05:53 <guaqua> e17 would be way cool
May 25 15:05:59 <guaqua> all that eyecandy ;)
May 25 15:08:58 <SpeedEvil> Can enlightenment run on P100 class unaccellr1;2cate hardware though.
May 25 15:09:10 <SpeedEvil> s/r.*a//
May 25 15:11:10 <balrog-kun> yes it can
May 25 15:11:38 <balrog-kun> *looking for an URL*
May 25 15:12:39 <balrog-kun> dang, angstrom-distribution.org is not responding - but i've seen screenshots of e17 running on low end handhelds there
May 25 15:14:06 <balrog-kun> ok, low-end compared to the Neo :-P
May 25 15:15:27 <Vegar> is the neo lower than low-end?
May 25 15:17:07 <Magon> Vegar: it is slower than slow
May 25 15:17:17 <Vegar> oi
May 25 15:17:18 <Vegar> ok*
May 25 15:19:53 <balrog-kun> Vegar: it's very high-end
May 25 15:20:51 <balrog-kun> Neo hardware is pretty fast and has plenty of RAM compared to normal handhelds
May 25 15:20:56 <Vegar> and yet it can't play full-screen video?
May 25 15:21:13 <guaqua> it can
May 25 15:21:17 <balrog-kun> who said it can't?
May 25 15:21:39 <Vegar> I remember reading something about it in the wiki or on the mailinglists
May 25 15:21:42 <guaqua> it just doesn't have a special chip to do it so it has to do it with the cpu
May 25 15:22:12 <balrog-kun> what makes the Neo look like bad hardware is comparing it to PC hardware, and people do that a lot
May 25 15:23:13 <guaqua> or comparing it to the very high end phones that cost double the amount a neo costs
May 25 15:23:25 <SuN> Playing video in real time is one of the hardest things for a computer to do correctly, I guess.
May 25 15:23:36 <SuN> Especially one that's < 300 MHz
May 25 15:24:12 <Stephmw> well, it's not really the playing, it's the timely decoding and playback of split audio/video
May 25 15:24:17 <ewon> my 6230i can play video
May 25 15:24:20 <ewon> and it's a heap of shit
May 25 15:24:29 <ewon> it just needs to be encoded correctly
May 25 15:24:36 * wm_eddie wonders what's in his Treo 600
May 25 15:24:50 <SuN> Correctly being "very low quality" :)
May 25 15:25:01 <hrw> wm_eddie: pxa255 with 160x160 screen iirc
May 25 15:25:13 <ewon> SuN: it only has to fill the moko screen :)
May 25 15:25:17 <SuN> I'm sure the Neo will be perfectly capable of playing a 160x120 3gp movie in full screen.
May 25 15:25:24 <wm_eddie> 144MHz ARM.
May 25 15:25:53 <SpeedEvil> It needs to do the expansion in hardware of course.
May 25 15:26:13 <loufoque> what's 3gp ?
May 25 15:26:16 <ewon> depends on the intruction set of the cpu
May 25 15:26:24 <ewon> loufoque: video standard used on mobile phones quite a bit
May 25 15:26:27 <balrog-kun> i believe Treo has an at least 320x320 screen
May 25 15:26:27 <SpeedEvil> (from 160*120 to 320*240) the hardware handles 320*240 mode (on the neo)
May 25 15:26:41 <wm_eddie> balrog-kun: not the Treo 600
May 25 15:26:52 <ewon> would be handy if there were some vectorised opcodes on the arm in the neo, but it's unlikely
May 25 15:26:59 <balrog-kun> wm_eddie: ok, i see
May 25 15:27:30 <loufoque> doesn't ARM have a few SIMD instructions?
May 25 15:27:53 <ewon> I like vector programming
May 25 15:27:58 <balrog-kun> xscale does, not generic ARM
May 25 15:28:06 <SpeedEvil> However, playing 320*240 video even is possible on the class of CPU that the neo is.
May 25 15:28:23 <SpeedEvil> It's broadly similar to a pentium 100.
May 25 15:28:33 <SuN> Depends a lot on the encoding.
May 25 15:28:36 <SpeedEvil> True.
May 25 15:28:37 <ewon> indeed
May 25 15:28:43 <SuN> But mpeg1 should be possible.
May 25 15:28:44 <SpeedEvil> You don't get h.264.
May 25 15:28:46 <SuN> :)
May 25 15:28:48 <SpeedEvil> mpeg1 is trivial.
May 25 15:29:01 <ewon> I presume 3gp is designed for computational economy
May 25 15:29:03 <SpeedEvil> IIRC I've played 120*160 or so mpeg1 on a 486/75
May 25 15:29:07 <SpeedEvil> which is much slower.
May 25 15:29:35 <loufoque> does the processor used in the neo even have a MMU ?
May 25 15:29:42 <SpeedEvil> yes.
May 25 15:29:47 <SpeedEvil> No FPU though.
May 25 15:29:53 <SpeedEvil> If you mean memory managment
May 25 15:30:00 <SpeedEvil> No MMXy stuff
May 25 15:30:10 <ewon> it would need an MMu, or the kernel would have a hard time of it :)
May 25 15:30:15 <SuN> No MMU = very tricky to run Linux.
May 25 15:30:22 <SpeedEvil> You _can_ emulate an MMU.
May 25 15:30:31 <SpeedEvil> Does rather slow things down of course.
May 25 15:30:31 <loufoque> well, there is a version of linux for stuff without mmu
May 25 15:30:34 <ewon> SpeedEvil: if you have the cycles, which we don't :)
May 25 15:30:36 <SuN> Though people have tried it on the old palm dragonballs.
May 25 15:31:17 <balrog-kun> loufoque: yeah but it doesn't do multitasking afaik and all programs need to be recompiled
May 25 15:31:20 <ewon> I presume these people don't have girlfriends
May 25 15:31:33 <balrog-kun> i.e. OE and all the standard distros wouldn't run
May 25 15:32:26 <loufoque> wow, no FPU
May 25 15:33:53 <ewon> question of cost I suppose
May 25 15:34:04 <ewon> guess it's a phone, what do we need floats for :)
May 25 15:34:09 <loufoque> doesn't GDK use doubles to calculate its rendering or stuff like that?
May 25 15:34:56 <SpeedEvil> You can do software FPU.
May 25 15:35:01 <balrog-kun> i don't think it's a question of cost
May 25 15:35:04 <balrog-kun> none of the popular arm SoCs has an fpu
May 25 15:35:18 <balrog-kun> they would have to use something totally non-standard if theyu wanted FPU
May 25 15:35:45 <loufoque> software FPU is slow
May 25 15:36:02 <balrog-kun> and it would probably be a waste of space as the FPU would be mostly useless
May 25 15:36:44 <SpeedEvil> You can do software FPU of course.
May 25 15:36:47 <Vegar> useless?
May 25 15:38:13 <SpeedEvil> Comparatively useless.
May 25 15:38:17 <SpeedEvil> Tehre is a tradeoff.
May 25 15:38:25 <SpeedEvil> Silicon area/power consumption/features.
May 25 15:38:37 <SpeedEvil> For a given clock speed, idle bits of the chip waste power.
May 25 15:38:57 <SpeedEvil> If you delete the FPU, then the whole chip can go faster at the same power.
May 25 15:41:04 <don-o> counter
May 25 15:41:04 <aloril> http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 50%) P1: 3 days 10:09:26 (3.423 +-3.4 days) (1280;212)
May 25 15:42:38 <ewon> the counter amuses me
May 25 15:48:17 <SuN> ewon: in that it is not really a counter but just a source of false hope? ;)
May 25 15:49:20 <aloril> eventually it will be right (or there won't be Neo1973)
May 25 15:49:22 <aloril> ;-)
May 25 15:51:59 <SuN> :D
May 25 15:53:45 <SpeedEvil> !falsehope
May 25 15:55:33 <don-o> if the confidence falls below 50/50, it might as well not report a date
May 25 16:20:12 <pjz> aloril: btw, thanks for making the counter toy :)
May 25 16:21:03 <aloril> pjz: welcome ;-)
May 25 16:27:01 <loufoque> aloril: how is the probability guess deduced?
May 25 16:27:47 <aloril> just guessing ;-)
May 25 16:28:20 <aloril> basically, less time left without any news -> more likely there are untold problems (see last 2007-05-10 run that didn't happen)
May 25 16:28:46 <webjames> i bet we hear something on monday! if not the neo release, news of why - that would be fair
May 25 16:28:58 <aloril> and other numbers are just gut feeling, if somebody has actual experience with hardware design/production and can produce better guesses: I would like to see those
May 25 16:31:19 <Stephmw> Elrond: hmm, looking at the packages, it doesn't add up to 7mb on disk that I can see. xserver-kdrive-fbdev is 445K, only the dbg version is 8.5MB... where does the extra size come from?
May 25 16:32:31 <CIA-23> openmoko: 03thomas * r2088 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/artwork/themes/openmoko-standard/gtk-2.0/ (25 files): 
May 25 16:32:31 <CIA-23> openmoko: theme:
May 25 16:32:31 <CIA-23> openmoko:  * Remove unimplemented recolourable option
May 25 16:32:31 <CIA-23> openmoko:  * Remove gtkwidget.png from being loaded in every GtkRcStyle
May 25 16:37:19 <zecke> mickey|lunch: ping
May 25 16:38:52 <aloril> also I think most here consider P1+ at June unlikely, also maybe same for mass market being at September (or this is impression I have gotten)
May 25 16:54:44 <kiney_> counter
May 25 16:54:45 <aloril> http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 50%) P1: 3 days 09:32:36 (3.398 +-3.4 days) (1281;212)
May 25 17:01:10 <aloril2> in latest mail about week ago Sean didn't sound very sure about May
May 25 17:59:54 <PBeck> hi
May 25 18:11:21 <LuitvD> aloril2: well... he still has 5 days to fix his prediction
May 25 18:19:18 <aloril2> LuitvD: a week if we count until last point in Earth moves to June
May 25 18:20:00 <SpeedEvil> Are we sure that the fab is on earth time?
May 25 18:20:14 <LuitvD> aloril2: true... though I expect it before that :P
May 25 18:20:28 <LuitvD> SpeedEvil: good question... 
May 25 18:20:33 <LuitvD> :)
May 25 18:20:51 <SpeedEvil> I'm betting it's due well before 7 venusian days.
May 25 18:21:20 <LuitvD> is  venusfaster or slower?
May 25 18:21:35 <LuitvD> s/venus/venus' rotation/
May 25 18:21:35 <apt> LuitvD meant: is  venus' rotationfaster or slower?
May 25 18:21:49 <SpeedEvil> Venus has a rotation of some 270 earth days.
May 25 18:21:53 <LuitvD> XD
May 25 18:22:24 <LuitvD> then I think 'whithin 7 days' is a fair guess :P
May 25 18:24:11 <LuitvD> wow, I've just found the notebook of my dreams...
May 25 18:24:18 <aloril> (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Buying_Interest_List]]
May 25 18:24:27 <aloril2> SpeedEvil: hehe
May 25 18:24:50 <SpeedEvil> The notebook of my dreams is basically like my current PC.
May 25 18:24:59 <SpeedEvil> But with wifi. 
May 25 18:25:03 <SpeedEvil> laptop rather.
May 25 18:25:16 <SpeedEvil> But with the ability for me to sit on it, and ideally roll it up.
May 25 18:25:54 <LuitvD> the laptop/notebook of my dreams is actually a tablet pc :P
May 25 18:26:02 <LuitvD> so I'm not sure what to call it
May 25 18:27:17 <LuitvD> my ideal laptop: 12" widescreen (fair resolution), 1GB ram or more, AMD TL-50 or better, GeForce6100 graphics or better
May 25 18:27:35 <SpeedEvil> I'm not that bothered about processor.
May 25 18:27:38 <LuitvD> and the HP tx1127 is all of that, AND it's touchscreen
May 25 18:27:47 <SpeedEvil> I'm not finding my PII/300 too slow for most stuff.
May 25 18:28:22 <LuitvD> I do think 1GHz is too slow for my use
May 25 18:28:54 <LuitvD> plus: tablet PC is a great feature :p
May 25 18:30:18 <LuitvD> and 12.1" widescreen is the ideally portable laptop size...
May 25 18:30:46 <Elrond> Good evening.
May 25 18:31:05 <LuitvD> hi Elrond 
May 25 18:36:04 <SpeedEvil> I'm not sure.
May 25 18:36:18 <SpeedEvil> I think roll-up, or folded is ideal display size.
May 25 18:36:34 <Elrond> BTW: Any idea how one gets openembedded to show the compiler calls, while compiling?
May 25 18:46:25 <Cyphi^> Hey guys
May 25 18:46:45 <Cray> Hi
May 25 18:56:10 <woglinde> hi
May 25 19:08:02 <webjames> LuitvD, SpeedEvil i'm looking at the T42 laptop
May 25 19:09:07 <LuitvD> webjames: T42?
May 25 19:09:21 <LuitvD> thinkpad
May 25 19:09:25 <LuitvD> not?
May 25 19:09:33 <webjames> yeah Toshiba thinkpad
May 25 19:10:10 <LuitvD> isn't "Thinkpad" an IBM brand?
May 25 19:10:33 <LuitvD> IBM or Lenovo
May 25 19:10:50 <guaqua> thinkpad is ibm/lenovo
May 25 19:11:09 <bmidgley> Elrond: you have that audio modules list? :)
May 25 19:11:22 <webjames> LuitvD: i think you're right, IBM
May 25 19:11:55 <LuitvD> webjames: toshiba has 'sattelite' and 'tecra' (old)
May 25 19:12:08 <Mr_You> when I checked on openmoko last, it seemed like it wasn't close to being ready.. but I see images are available.. is it possible to run OpenMoko on x86 yet?
May 25 19:12:10 <webjames> ..but anyway that what i'm going for, fairly fast and you can put 2gb of ram in it
May 25 19:12:33 <bmidgley> My_You should be able to using qemu
May 25 19:12:36 <bmidgley> haven't tried that
May 25 19:12:44 <webjames> Mr_You: qemu is your answer
May 25 19:12:51 <LuitvD> webjames: I'm going for a 12" MSI barebook, or 12" HP tablet pc, you can put 2GB in those babies too :)
May 25 19:13:01 <Mr_You> I understand your comment, but no, I'm wondering if I can run it standalone on x86.
May 25 19:13:14 <webjames> Mr_You: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Qemu#Manual_setup
May 25 19:13:30 <balrog-kun> Mr_You: yes, it is possible to run OpenMoko on x86
May 25 19:13:34 <LuitvD> Mr_You: you can compile the programs for x68, if that's what you mean
May 25 19:13:36 <balrog-kun> without an emulator too
May 25 19:13:45 <LuitvD> s/x68/x86
May 25 19:14:15 <Mr_You> well I'm wondering if it could be used as an embedded OS for x86.
May 25 19:14:33 <SpeedEvil> Sure.
May 25 19:14:42 <SpeedEvil> It's just another linux distribution.
May 25 19:15:18 <Mr_You> and its been ported to other CPUs besides Arm or whatever?
May 25 19:15:29 <balrog-kun> well written software needs no porting
May 25 19:15:31 <Mr_You> OpenMoko linux kernel.
May 25 19:15:37 <LuitvD> Mr_You: if you can get someone to add your embedded device to OE, then it's done in the blink of an eye
May 25 19:15:39 <Mr_You> whatever
May 25 19:15:43 <balrog-kun> no, the kernel is not a part of the distro
May 25 19:15:49 <SpeedEvil> There is no openmoko kernel
May 25 19:16:01 <SpeedEvil> openmoko is a _distribution_ like redhat, or debian.
May 25 19:16:08 <Mr_You> with no kernel?
May 25 19:16:10 <SpeedEvil> It's optimised for mobile phones is all.
May 25 19:16:14 <LuitvD> there is the FIC Neo1973 kernel, on which openmoko can run
May 25 19:16:16 <SpeedEvil> It uses the linux kernel.
May 25 19:16:22 <Mr_You> I see.
May 25 19:16:23 <balrog-kun> kernel is quite cross-platform and it runs very well on x86 already, not need to port anything
May 25 19:16:47 <LuitvD> if you use OpenEZX to patch a vanilla kernel on a motorola phone, then that can run openmoko too
May 25 19:16:53 <Mr_You> umm.. I'm assuming there are hardware specific tweaks to the Linux kernel for a mobile phone.
May 25 19:17:01 <SpeedEvil> Nope.
May 25 19:17:08 <webjames> LuitvD: can't find much info on the barebook
May 25 19:17:17 <Mr_You> LuitvD just answered my question somewhat.
May 25 19:17:19 <LuitvD> webjames: it's X262
May 25 19:17:34 <LuitvD> s/X262/S262/
May 25 19:17:34 <apt> LuitvD meant: webjames: it's S262
May 25 19:17:34 <balrog-kun> Mr_You: no, it's simply whether the kernel supports a given platform or not
May 25 19:17:56 <LuitvD> Mr_You: on what device would you use it?
May 25 19:19:00 <Mr_You> balrog: right.. thats what I'm asking, but I get it a little.
May 25 19:19:04 <Mr_You> luitvD: laptop.
May 25 19:19:25 <Mr_You> or a "ultra-mobile"
May 25 19:19:41 <LuitvD> Mr_You: like an UMPC?
May 25 19:20:19 <Mr_You> sorta, but really I'm just interested in a new OS that supports Java apps.. 
May 25 19:20:30 <Mr_You> thats low power.
May 25 19:21:31 <webjames> LuitvD: have a look at this, http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site.wss/document.do?sitestyle=lenovo&lndocid=MIGR-57838
May 25 19:21:40 <LuitvD> well, I think you'd have to wait a while for openmoko to be an option for that... the main target for now is to get it running and stable on the FIC Neo1973
May 25 19:22:44 <LuitvD> webjames: I'd still go for 12" , but that's my choice
May 25 19:22:56 <LuitvD> webjames: what's the price of that T42?
May 25 19:23:16 <webjames> LuitvD: yeah, spose it's more portable, going for around 300
May 25 19:24:08 <Mr_You> yeah SavaJe has been/is being ported to Linux.. and more than likely someone like Apple may provide what I'm looking for, but bloated OSs are getting on my nerves.. I'd like to eval a flash based 12"-13" LCD tablet-style, battery that last all day, mainly provide a browser, ssh/telnet, and remote desktop app.
May 25 19:25:04 <Elrond> bmidgley - Ahh, wait a sec.
May 25 19:25:22 <LuitvD> webjames: well, it's certainly not expensive, that thinkpad... guess a smaller device means a higher price... 
May 25 19:25:40 <webjames> LuitvD: yeah i guess
May 25 19:25:41 <Elrond> bmidgley - snd-soc-neo1973-wm8753 snd-soc-s3c24xx-i2s snd-soc-s3c24xx snd-soc-wm8753
May 25 19:25:43 <LuitvD> though beyond 15,4" it gets more expensive :P
May 25 19:25:49 <LuitvD> when bigger
May 25 19:26:00 <Elrond> bmidgley - And do a modprobe for "snd-soc-neo1973-wm8753".
May 25 19:26:04 <bmidgley> great thx
May 25 19:26:37 * SpeedEvil stabs laptop makers.
May 25 19:26:43 <LuitvD> :P
May 25 19:26:44 <woglinde> hehe
May 25 19:26:49 <woglinde> there are only 3 or 4
May 25 19:26:54 <Mr_You> I also need an indoor/outdoor display.
May 25 19:26:58 * SpeedEvil has a 1.1Kg laptop that lasts 8 hours.
May 25 19:27:10 <LuitvD> SpeedEvil: which laptop is that? a sony?
May 25 19:27:10 <SpeedEvil> Toshiba 3110CT, re-celled with modern cells.
May 25 19:27:15 <LuitvD> ah
May 25 19:27:24 <Elrond> bmidgley - I'm updating the kernel wiki page now.
May 25 19:27:39 <Stephmw> Mr_You: not openmoko related, but you might be interested in my recent proposal, http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.comp.java.openjdk.awt.devel/5
May 25 19:27:42 <LuitvD> refurbishing a battery is a good investment indeed
May 25 19:27:48 <SpeedEvil> LuitvD
May 25 19:28:02 <SpeedEvil> especially when the initial capacity was half of modern ones.
May 25 19:28:07 <LuitvD> lol
May 25 19:28:25 <LuitvD> did you change the charging circuitry too?
May 25 19:28:39 <LuitvD> or wasn't that necessary?
May 25 19:29:09 <Stephmw> Elrond: did you see my comment an hour or so ago?
May 25 19:29:33 <Mr_You> Stephmw: sounds interesting.
May 25 19:30:06 <Stephmw> Mr_You: add their lean JRE and it could do what you want... it's a big step up from J2ME
May 25 19:30:30 <Elrond> Stephmw - About the 7MB, yes, basicly.  Answer: This is the memory needed, which includes dynamic memory. "malloc". ;-)
May 25 19:30:37 <Mr_You> Stephmw: they who?
May 25 19:30:46 <Stephmw> Mr_You: Sun
May 25 19:30:55 <Stephmw> Mr_You: Java7 and all that
May 25 19:31:07 <Mr_You> ahh yeah cool
May 25 19:31:17 <Stephmw> openjdk is their baby ;-)
May 25 19:31:22 <Mr_You> Sun says they plan to port SavaJe to multiple archs.
May 25 19:31:29 <Mr_You> err. JavaFX Mobile
May 25 19:31:32 <Stephmw> Elrond: ok, but on disk it's just that 500kb binary?
May 25 19:31:57 <Stephmw> yeah, although I'll wait to see that as a downloadable source bundle :)
May 25 19:32:21 * SpeedEvil notes that the compressed-cache patch might be handy for OM.
May 25 19:33:06 <Elrond> Stephmw - plus the shared libraries it links to.
May 25 19:33:36 <Stephmw> Elrond: yeah, excluding font and auth, what else does it link?
May 25 19:35:11 <Elrond> Stephmw - libz1, etc.
May 25 19:45:22 <Elrond> pH5 - I tried your hhtest.c on the Bv03. It only gives me a "00" :-(
May 25 19:49:41 <pH5> hi Elrond, same here. I just don't know if/how we can enable the GPS on the Bv3.
May 25 19:49:55 <Elrond> pH5 - :-(
May 25 19:50:38 <pH5> Elrond: indeed :-(
May 25 19:51:38 <Elrond> pH5 - Do you have any info, if the gps chip could be damaged by trying various 0/1 trickeries on the on-off lines?
May 25 19:54:34 <Elrond> bmidgley - See, if http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Kernel#Prebuilt_kernel_images would have helped you, please.
May 25 19:55:36 <pH5> Elrond: no. I *believe* it won't be, but that's not what you asked :)
May 25 19:57:21 <bmidgley> Elrond: great. I also created a bug and referred it
May 25 20:05:58 <Elrond> bmidgley - You above edit ("should be copied from the generated module*.tgz file ") shouldn't be there. Check the paragraph before the Neo1973 specific one.
May 25 20:06:33 <Elrond> bmidgley - And the rootfs has prebuild modules, just for the wrong second-last kernel revision. ;o)
May 25 20:17:23 <bmidgley> Elrond: when I build images using mokomakefile I get matching rootfs modules and kernel
May 25 20:19:32 <Elrond> bmidgley - Ahh. :)
May 25 20:21:04 <Elrond> Hi koen! :-)
May 25 20:25:18 <aloril> (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Kernel]] [[Buying_Interest_List]] [[Hardware:AGPS]]
May 25 20:51:15 <Mandarino> when when? xD
May 25 20:53:20 <balrog-kun> they were being sold last week and were all sold out, you're late
May 25 20:54:52 <Mandarino> xDDDDDDDDDDDD
May 25 20:56:47 <pavelm> Hello, everyone.
May 25 20:56:56 <woglinde> hi pavelm
May 25 20:56:56 <bkuhn> Hello
May 25 20:59:13 <Elrond> Hi pavelm! :-)
May 25 20:59:54 <pavelm> Hello, Elrond. Did the python finish compiling?
May 25 21:01:07 <Elrond> pavelm - Not yet. ;-) gcc compiles a second time just as we talk. ;o)
May 25 21:01:28 <pavelm> Elrond: Ouch, gcc is going to take a while :-(
May 25 21:01:39 <pavelm> Is there any good gps software for openmoko?
May 25 21:01:52 <pavelm> I guess I should try to run gpsdrive?
May 25 21:02:46 <Elrond> I don't know any good gps base software.
May 25 21:02:55 <Elrond> I'm trying to the the gps chip on the Bv03 up...
May 25 21:03:20 <pavelm> elrond: Get old enough patches -- it should just work in some historical version :-)
May 25 21:03:46 <Elrond> pavelm - Of the kernel, or what?
May 25 21:04:41 <pavelm> elrond: Old enough kernel patches, yes.
May 25 21:05:20 <Elrond> I think, the old patches are even more buggy.
May 25 21:18:14 <bmidgley> Elrond: gpsdrive is about all there is and the UI is a wreck
May 25 21:18:52 <koen> bmidgley: maemo-mapper
May 25 21:19:00 <bmidgley> I LOVE maemomapper
May 25 21:19:18 <bmidgley> could it be ported?
May 25 21:19:50 <koen> http://home.tal.org/%7Emilang/n770/maemo-mapper-desktop-20061114-001.patch
May 25 21:20:07 <koen> angstrom already has it in the feeds: http://www.angstrom-distribution.org/repo/?action=details&pnm=maemo-mapper-nohildon
May 25 21:20:08 <bmidgley> on my n800 I just got it working with US topo maps... very nice
May 25 21:20:21 <koen> once hildon-1 matures we could even use the hildon version
May 25 21:21:57 <bmidgley> koen: who maintains bluez-utils.inc
May 25 21:22:34 <koen> in svn or OE?
May 25 21:22:48 <koen> the one in OE has been reviewed by marcel
May 25 21:22:49 <bmidgley> whatever mokomakefile gave me... 
May 25 21:22:56 <koen> and rewritten for 3.11
May 25 21:23:02 <koen> oh, right
May 25 21:23:16 <bmidgley> can we add --enable-audio there
May 25 21:23:23 <bmidgley> so I can use it unmodified
May 25 21:23:32 <koen> my eyes glaze over when someone mentions 'mokomakefile'
May 25 21:23:57 <bmidgley> and I've cheated by using it such that I don't understand what is going on behind the scenes :(
May 25 21:24:36 <koen> If you use OE.dev you get bluez-utils 3.11 which has --enable-audio by default :)
May 25 21:24:53 <koen> http://www.openembedded.org/repo/org.openembedded.dev/packages/bluez/bluez-utils_3.11.bb
May 25 21:25:56 <pavelm> Is there easy way to get maemo mapper / gpsdrive on openmoko?
May 25 21:26:29 <pavelm> ...I guess I could just use the "debian/arm in the chroot" trick I do on zaurus...
May 25 21:27:10 <balrog-kun> if it's opensource you can just run it normally
May 25 21:28:02 <koen> balrog-kun: some people have trouble typing "ipkg install bash gpsdrive" and install a debian chroot to cover up that flaw
May 25 21:28:21 <pavelm> koen: Is that really as easy as ipkg install gpsdrive?
May 25 21:28:42 <pavelm> koen: on current openmoko? I did not see gpsdrive in "applications" list.
May 25 21:30:03 <Elrond> mokomakefile% find . -iname '*gpsdrive*'
May 25 21:30:03 <Elrond> ./openembedded/packages/gpsdrive
May 25 21:30:24 <Elrond> "make build-package-gpsdrive" should do the trick.
May 25 21:30:33 <Elrond> ... for mokomakefile.
May 25 21:31:00 <pavelm> elrond: Yes, after finding 7 free GB and few days of compiling, right?
May 25 21:31:09 <pavelm> elrond: debian in chroot is easier, I guess.
May 25 21:31:15 <koen> why do people find "make build-package-gpsdrive" easier than "bitbake gpsdrive"?
May 25 21:31:51 <Philippe> koen: bitbake sounds like magic.... make is something people know
May 25 21:31:51 <MacNorth> because it's (slightly) more documented
May 25 21:32:17 <koen> MacNorth: that is actually nonsense
May 25 21:32:32 * mwester is *STILL* trying to get an app working with bitbake 1.8, a problem he never had with makefiles!
May 25 21:32:34 * koen looks at the 100 page OE usermanual
May 25 21:32:35 <MacNorth> oh? there's a bitbake page on the wiki?
May 25 21:32:51 <koen> MacNorth: there's a complete fricking bitbake manual
May 25 21:32:52 <Elrond> koen - Because for "bitbake xxx" zu work, you have to have the right environment variables setup. ;-)
May 25 21:33:09 <mwester> It covers bitbake, it doesn't really cover the OE recipes.
May 25 21:33:33 <MacNorth> bitbake as tool may be well documented, but in relation to OM, not so much
May 25 21:34:56 <koen> 129 pages of documentation how to use bitbake and OE
May 25 21:35:07 <koen> minus table of contents
May 25 21:35:08 <Elrond> koen - BTW: Do you know of your head, how one tells OE/bitbake to be more chatty at "do_compile" time?
May 25 21:35:16 <koen> -D
May 25 21:35:21 <zecke> bitbake -DDD
May 25 21:35:41 <zecke> strace -f bitbake -DDD is doing wonders ;)
May 25 21:35:49 <Elrond> ;o)
May 25 21:36:08 <Elrond> There's no variable I can set in local.conf? ;)
May 25 21:36:17 <zecke> no
May 25 21:36:49 <koen> for people without access to google: http://bitbake.berlios.de/manual/ http://www.openembedded.org/user-manual
May 25 21:37:18 <guaqua> koen: :D
May 25 21:37:28 <zecke> koen: that reminds me multi threading and the task dependencies are not yet documented
May 25 21:37:45 <mwester> which is the item currently giving me trouble :)
May 25 21:37:53 <mwester> (task dependencies, that is)
May 25 21:37:55 <koen> zecke: and openmoko is still using a stoneage bitbake without that
May 25 21:37:57 <Elrond> koen - google usually doesn't like me. It always tells me to buy new bitbake pr0n or so. ;o)
May 25 21:38:06 <koen> zecke: so no trouble pasting the docs here ;)
May 25 21:38:33 <zecke> koen: you have heard about our plans to raise money to make you more polite?
May 25 21:38:48 <zecke> koen: my proposal for buying drugs wasn't accepted
May 25 21:39:25 <Philippe> zecke: more Leffe 9 for Koen should be able to solve that issue
May 25 21:39:27 <koen> I'm polite to people with a clue (e.g. googling before trying to waste my time)
May 25 21:40:05 <zecke> Philippe: yeah, and we need to hire a nurse to feed it to him
May 25 21:40:18 <koen> but since the subclass of people called 'users' never have heard of 'searching' or 'google' I might seem impolite
May 25 21:40:27 <zecke> Philippe: I fear he will just code more php stuff if we do so...
May 25 21:40:28 <SpeedEvil> the GSM modem on the neo can do FAX?
May 25 21:40:34 <Philippe> zecke: and give him massages...
May 25 21:40:41 * Philippe understands koen however...
May 25 21:40:46 <zecke> ;)
May 25 21:40:57 <Philippe> sometimes people are even to lazy to read the error output...
May 25 21:41:06 <koen> output?
May 25 21:41:08 <koen> what's that?
May 25 21:41:30 <koen> is that the thing I paste into IRC without reading?
May 25 21:41:33 <Philippe> koen something like arm-linux-gcc: command not found 
May 25 21:41:35 <balrog-kun> SpeedEvil: i think it should be able to do that because FAX calls are just normal calls
May 25 21:42:01 <balrog-kun> modem support shouldn't be needed for FAXes
May 25 21:42:45 <balrog-kun> although i may be talking out of my arse now
May 25 21:44:18 <MacNorth> hmmm..... no obvious google hits for 'bitbake example', 'bitbake primer', 'bitbake quick start', or 'bitbake tutorial' though 'bitbake hello world' gets one point. searching with make in place of bitbake yeilds better clicking
May 25 21:45:44 <balrog-kun> we don't need no stinking examples :)
May 25 21:46:11 <MacNorth> not when koen's around :-P
May 25 21:54:36 <billl_> counter
May 25 21:54:36 <aloril> http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 50%) P1: 3 days 07:02:40 (3.294 +-3.3 days) (1282;213)
May 25 21:55:48 <pavelm> Are there really planes to ship phase1 in 3 days?
May 25 21:55:55 <SpeedEvil> Well.
May 25 21:55:58 <SpeedEvil> The counter lies.
May 25 21:56:17 <SpeedEvil> There has been no announcement since the last 'we have the bits at the factory' post
May 25 21:56:34 <MacNorth> yeah, it was just two weeks + 10 may
May 25 21:56:50 <MacNorth> and round up to the following weekend
May 25 22:01:06 <pavelm> ...actually, hardware seems ready...
May 25 22:03:20 <SpeedEvil> Do you have info? Or have you heard of results of the run that was to be started.
May 25 22:04:45 <pavelm> speed: I have phase1 machine on my table, and it seems pretty much working. So hardware _design_ seems ok. But I know nothing about production issues.
May 25 22:07:16 <SpeedEvil> Ah. Numerous issues might delay getting working neos in boxes, even if they have the bits.
May 25 22:08:44 <pavelm> Question... I guess I'm quite confused about arm 'architecture'...
May 25 22:09:00 <pavelm> ...mainly because there seems to be at least arm/oabi, arm/eabi, and arm/bigendian.
May 25 22:09:04 <Vegar> could this be used to speed up the boot time of the neo? http://www.linux.com/article.pl?sid=06/04/13/173227
May 25 22:09:05 <pavelm> ...openmoko is arm/eabi, right?
May 25 22:09:09 * SpeedEvil sings "The elbow bone is connected..."
May 25 22:09:38 <pavelm> speed: well, page in wiki would be nice ;-).
May 25 22:09:57 <pavelm> ...is kernel<->user interface same in arm/oabi + arm/eabi?
May 25 22:10:16 <SpeedEvil> Vegar: It depends on the bottleneck. If stuff is busy-waiting, then yes. 
May 25 22:10:25 <Vegar> good point
May 25 22:10:34 <SpeedEvil> Vegar: If it's doing I/O, or CPU stuff, then no.
May 25 22:10:43 <pavelm> vegar: probably not; paralel boot helps when you have delays from seek.
May 25 22:10:50 <pavelm> vegar: we are probably cpu-limitied.
May 25 22:11:02 <pavelm> speed: so what is the rest of the song?
May 25 22:11:03 <Vegar> that's what I feared
May 25 22:11:38 <SpeedEvil> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dem_Bones
May 25 22:22:25 <Philippe> Vegar: IO and CPU are quite quickly a bottleneck on HW like the neo
May 25 22:23:14 <Philippe> You need to read from flash and decompress the jffs2 stuff. And only then you can start to excute stuff.
May 25 22:23:40 <Philippe> And if flash and RAM are on the same bus it only gets worse
May 25 22:23:43 <balrog-kun> one of IO or CPU is the bottleneck on practically any machine i have used :)
May 25 22:23:54 <SpeedEvil> user
May 25 22:24:03 <SpeedEvil> Almost always the real bottleneck.
May 25 22:25:18 <aloril> (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Guitar_Tuning]] [[Wish_List_-_Hardware]] [[Kernel]]
May 25 22:25:59 <SpeedEvil> I thought they sucked at low powers though
May 25 22:26:03 <SpeedEvil> oops
May 25 22:40:13 <pavelm> Okay, I should get some sleep. Bye bye.
May 26 00:31:00 <webjames> night all
May 26 02:24:54 <bmidgley> has anyone heard stereo sound from the neo? i only get mono
May 26 02:26:18 <aloril> (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Neo1973_Audio_Subsystem]]
May 26 02:37:31 <aevin> I am curious what this introduced HXD8 support is for. is it GTA02 or more generally a non-FIC openmoko device?
May 26 02:58:01 <aevin> okay, I'll figure it out later. *zZz*
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat May 26 02:59:57 2007