**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun May 27 02:59:56 2007
May 27 04:53:39 <pjz> counter
May 27 04:53:39 <aloril> http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 50%) P1: 2 days 15:33:09 (2.648 +-2.6 days) (1289;213)
May 27 06:47:55 <dirak1> counter
May 27 06:47:55 <aloril> http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 50%) P1: 2 days 14:36:01 (2.608 +-2.6 days) (1290;214)
May 27 07:03:43 <Mandarino> counter
May 27 07:03:43 <aloril> http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 50%) P1: 2 days 14:28:07 (2.603 +-2.6 days) (1291;214)
May 27 07:45:45 <Hopscotch> good morning
May 27 08:21:29 <pavelm> Hello, hopscotch!
May 27 08:21:45 <Hopscotch> hiho
May 27 08:25:43 <pavelm> ..I got angstrom distro running on openmoko last night ... only to realize I _need_ oabi for gllin :-(.
May 27 08:27:46 <Magon> what is gllin for?
May 27 08:28:35 <Hopscotch> it's the gps daemon
May 27 08:28:56 <Hopscotch> i found out that the sirf chips are able to report the current 50bps message received
May 27 08:29:14 <Hopscotch> that should help to decode the hammerhead protocol
May 27 08:29:23 <Hopscotch> if you have an strace and the corresponding sat-message
May 27 08:52:33 <PBeck> hi
May 27 09:03:08 <pavelm> hopscotch: Nice!
May 27 09:03:42 <pavelm> hopscotch: Placing sirf near the hammerhead at good view of sky, then stracing the hammerhead should show us the messages ;-).
May 27 09:13:06 <sannes> counter
May 27 09:13:07 <aloril> http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 50%) P1: 2 days 13:23:25 (2.558 +-2.6 days) (1292;214)
May 27 09:33:29 <Stepan> hi there
May 27 09:34:05 <Stepan> the late may version wont have UMTS will it?
May 27 09:34:50 <buz> no
May 27 09:34:53 <buz> just gsm
May 27 09:34:56 <buz> and gprs
May 27 09:37:09 <Stepan> pity. i have half a dozen gsm phones here, and they are all "good enough", but I was unable to find any phone that is Linux based and has UMTS support yet. Is this some patent issue?
May 27 09:37:30 <Stepan> ... maybe umts is just not attractive enough
May 27 09:37:48 <guaqua> i just hear it's expensive
May 27 09:38:49 <Stepan> in germany there is a umts flatrate for 40eur. thats about the same as a normal broadband flatrate, too.
May 27 09:39:22 <Stepan> living out of hotel rooms for most of the month, this is kind of attractive. 
May 27 09:40:14 <guaqua> the hardware, not the tariffs :)
May 27 09:42:33 <Stepan> aah. 
May 27 09:43:18 <guaqua> somewhere i read or heard that only the rojalty fees for umts would be ~50 euros per phone
May 27 09:43:19 <Stepan> german market is a bit distorted through the benefits you get when you sign a 1 or 2 yr contract
May 27 09:43:26 <guaqua> don't know if this is true though
May 27 09:43:29 <Stepan> you get most phones for 1-150eur
May 27 09:43:42 <guaqua> not umts phones :)
May 27 09:43:47 <Stepan> royalty 50eur. wow
May 27 09:44:00 <guaqua> this is just a hunch, not sure about it
May 27 09:44:26 <guaqua> they've started selling those subsidised phones in finland too
May 27 09:44:31 <guaqua> with 2 year contracts
May 27 09:44:47 <guaqua> you can get flatrate data for 10 euros/month
May 27 09:44:48 <Stepan> guaqua: with O2 you get the Sony Ericson W880i UMTS for 9.99 (without contract its roughly 500 bucks)
May 27 09:45:01 <guaqua> :S
May 27 09:45:42 <Stepan> the flatrate itself? 10eur?
May 27 09:45:46 <Stepan> amazing!
May 27 09:45:47 <guaqua> yeah
May 27 09:45:57 <guaqua> it's not unlimited umts though
May 27 09:46:10 <Stepan> germany is a developing country in the communication scene
May 27 09:46:34 <guaqua> it's 128kbit/s flatrate
May 27 09:46:41 <guaqua> 3g, edge and gprs
May 27 09:46:52 <guaqua> though with gprs you are limited to technical maximum speeds
May 27 09:47:07 <Stepan> for 40eur you really get unlimited umts her, they claim. but i have no idea about availability
May 27 09:47:30 <guaqua> i'm hearing the speeds vary alot
May 27 09:47:36 <Stepan> i dont want to sign a 2yr contract to have the possibility to surf in munich trainstation and nowhere else ;)
May 27 09:47:54 <guaqua> :)
May 27 09:47:58 <Stepan> obviously, yes. And you can not use UMTS in trains, usually
May 27 09:48:10 <guaqua> gprs works pretty well everywhere in finland
May 27 09:48:12 <guaqua> even in trains
May 27 09:48:17 <hrw> morning
May 27 09:48:26 <guaqua> and even without the extra transmitters in the carrs
May 27 09:48:30 <guaqua> morning, hrw 
May 27 09:48:36 <hrw> gfx cards suxx
May 27 09:49:01 <Stepan> 128kbit is fine for what I do, but I think with GPRS I usually get 9600 or something
May 27 09:49:09 <Stepan> (might be totally wrong though)
May 27 09:49:26 <guaqua> i think gprs is supposed to be like 43 kbit/s
May 27 09:49:32 <guaqua> not sure about it though
May 27 09:50:14 <guaqua> hscsd is 43.2 kbit/s
May 27 09:51:55 <guaqua> neo has GPRS Class12/CS4
May 27 09:52:16 <hrw> GSM CSD is 9600
May 27 09:52:24 <LuitvD> SpeedEvil: you there?
May 27 09:52:36 <guaqua> so theoretically neo could do...60kbit/s or 80kbit/s ?
May 27 09:52:45 <tholin> hscsd is called turbo 3G where I am from. Sounds way cooler dont you think?
May 27 09:52:54 <guaqua> turbo 3g :D
May 27 09:53:03 <guaqua> that's _funny_
May 27 10:03:36 <C7> counter?
May 27 10:03:37 <aloril> "/msg aloril counter?" for actual long message, giving short version here: http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 50%) P1: 2 days 12:58:10 (2.540 +-2.5 days) (1293;215)
May 27 12:11:46 <antenagora> counter
May 27 12:11:46 <aloril> http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 50%) P1: 2 days 11:54:05 (2.496 +-2.5 days) (1294;215)
May 27 12:16:05 <keitsi> will software be compatible and maintained even for the P1 hardware?
May 27 12:17:13 <balrog-kun> kernel is the only thing that possibly needs active maintaining
May 27 12:18:12 <balrog-kun> and i guess as long as there are users it is going to be maintained, users are who maintains software
May 27 12:19:07 <SpeedEvil> The software should be more or less compatible over any OM phone.
May 27 12:19:32 <keitsi> that's what I was hoping to hear
May 27 12:19:47 <balrog-kun> the software is compatible over all arm machines
May 27 12:19:52 <keitsi> looks like I might have to buy the P1+ phone :)
May 27 12:20:00 <SpeedEvil> Err - no. Not only ARM.
May 27 12:20:10 <SpeedEvil> It can compile to pretty much any platform.
May 27 12:20:11 <balrog-kun> binary-compatible that is
May 27 12:23:01 <SpeedEvil> Yeah. But that's pretty irrelevant surely?
May 27 12:24:40 <balrog-kun> i don't know, sometimes it is very relevant
May 27 12:26:10 <SpeedEvil> As I understand it, other than bootloader, and kernel support, it shouldn't be. 
May 27 12:26:22 <SpeedEvil> And proprietory software.
May 27 12:27:30 <balrog-kun> it is relevant when a friend tells you, look, the build r1622 is not booting for me, and you can go to the website with image and drop the r1622 image right to your device
May 27 12:27:58 <SpeedEvil> Sure.
May 27 13:14:20 <LuitvD> SpeedEvil: you here?
May 27 13:15:02 <LuitvD> SpeedEvil: found something interesting on the wiki, and you posted it, IIRC
May 27 13:23:16 <LuitvD> SpeedEvil: you made this change, right? http://wiki.openmoko.org/index.php?title=FAQ&diff=5292&oldid=5290
May 27 13:23:40 <LuitvD> I'm interested in that last change, about the future versions...
May 27 13:24:06 <LuitvD> it implies that there will be more then just the HXD8 next to the Neo1973
May 27 13:29:42 <balrog-kun> LuitvD: yes, someone talked about five or so devices this year
May 27 13:29:57 <balrog-kun> there's at least Neo1983 that i know of
May 27 13:30:29 <balrog-kun> although Neo1983 and HXD8 may be the same thing because HXD8 is only the codename like GTA01
May 27 13:36:01 <guaqua> is hxd8 on fic website?
May 27 13:37:14 <balrog-kun> it wouldn't be s3cr3t if it was on the website, would it :)
May 27 13:38:52 <guaqua> haha
May 27 13:39:02 <guaqua> where do you get this info from? :)
May 27 13:39:05 <Vegar> all those secrets..
May 27 13:59:22 <LuitvD> balrog-kun: I'm making an HXD8 page for the wiki :P
May 27 13:59:54 <LuitvD> based on the currently available kernel and u-boot patches, and hardware documentations on subversion
May 27 14:00:40 <balrog-kun> nice
May 27 14:01:08 <LuitvD> balrog-kun: there's actually quite some information already :P
May 27 14:01:43 <SpeedEvil> LuitvD: checking - not worked on FAQ for a while IIRC
May 27 14:01:58 <SpeedEvil> been trying to bring a little order to hardware wishlist
May 27 14:02:04 <LuitvD> SpeedEvil: where did you get that info? 5 devices...
May 27 14:02:18 <SpeedEvil> wait
May 27 14:02:20 <LuitvD> back in february
May 27 14:03:26 <SpeedEvil> Hmm.
May 27 14:04:38 <SpeedEvil> I think it was from the mailing lists.
May 27 14:04:44 <LuitvD> SpeedEvil: I really wonder where that info comes from :P because it now seems to be true...
May 27 14:05:03 <SpeedEvil> I know I got the "not phones in the traditional sense" phrase from somewhere else.
May 27 14:05:11 <SpeedEvil> I mean I diddn't make it up.
May 27 14:05:12 <LuitvD> with that HXD8... that one was maybe intendedly posted on subversion...
May 27 14:05:29 <LuitvD> that's allright...
May 27 14:05:36 <LuitvD> might be sean's language :P
May 27 14:05:42 <SpeedEvil> Possibly.
May 27 14:05:43 <LuitvD> I bet it is...
May 27 14:05:55 <LuitvD> keeping us anxious :P the basterd
May 27 14:06:09 <LuitvD> he's good at it
May 27 14:06:24 <stefan_schmidt> SpeedEvil: Take a look at presentation from Sean at Fosdem. :)
May 27 14:07:02 <LuitvD> that might be the source, yeah...
May 27 14:08:21 <SpeedEvil> yeah - that was what I was thinking of.
May 27 14:08:27 <SpeedEvil> It's probably that
May 27 14:08:48 <SpeedEvil> Thinking back, some of the other things from that FAQ edit I think came from the list.
May 27 14:08:51 <balrog-kun> i think that's also where i've heard about five new devices
May 27 14:08:52 <SpeedEvil> err the talk
May 27 14:09:12 <LuitvD> oeh, the HXD8 will have quite a nice camera :)
May 27 14:10:21 <LuitvD> anyhow, I'm back to creating that wiki page again :P
May 27 14:10:34 <LuitvD> found a bunch of info
May 27 14:11:25 <LuitvD> not sure if the light sensor included in the device is for camera exposure guessing, or for LCD backlight setting
May 27 14:11:50 <stefan_schmidt> LuitvD: Please make sure not spreading to much rumors. Only add hard facts from what you find in the patches
May 27 14:12:25 <LuitvD> stefan_schmidt: ofcourse... and I've added a notice on the top of the page that the specs are all well-educated guesses, not facts (yet)
May 27 14:12:38 <stefan_schmidt> LuitvD: k
May 27 14:12:50 <LuitvD> stefan_schmidt: want to review it before I post?
May 27 14:13:43 <stefan_schmidt> LuitvD: nah, just go ahead.
May 27 14:13:49 <LuitvD> stefan_schmidt: okay :)
May 27 14:14:25 * LuitvD tries to reorganise the 20+ tabs he has opened in firefox...
May 27 14:14:26 <balrog-kun> ugh, facts are no fun
May 27 14:14:48 <LuitvD> balrog-kun: right :) sean keeping us on the edge is way more fun
May 27 14:15:07 <balrog-kun> rumours and hoaxes that the FIC people would have to back out later would be more fun :)
May 27 14:15:11 <barmeier> hi
May 27 14:16:30 <stefan_schmidt> balrog-kun: Not, really :)
May 27 14:16:44 <Philippe> hi all
May 27 14:17:15 <stefan_schmidt> balrog-kun: Let me spread the rumor that you have forked quemu. Peop,e would love to hear this and start bashing. ;)
May 27 14:17:18 <stefan_schmidt> hi Philippe 
May 27 14:17:30 <LuitvD> balrog-kun: no, Sean telling us to take a good look at the patches is the fun part :P
May 27 14:17:55 <LuitvD> hmm, who should I talk to about possible mistakes in those patches?
May 27 14:18:23 <Philippe> hey stefan_schmidt !
May 27 14:18:35 <balrog-kun> stefan_schmidt: well, actually i have :p
May 27 14:18:59 <stefan_schmidt> balrog-kun: OK, so I tell them that do don't plan to merge ;)
May 27 14:19:47 <stefan_schmidt> So, I have no problem with people guessing what it is, but rumors makes it just harder for all.
May 27 14:20:10 <balrog-kun> then i would have to change my name, fingerprints and wear sunglasses and go to columbia
May 27 14:21:09 <balrog-kun> LuitvD: did you commit the page?
May 27 14:21:15 <LuitvD> balrog-kun: not yet
May 27 14:21:19 <stefan_schmidt> balrog-kun: heh
May 27 14:21:22 <LuitvD> balrog-kun: still adding more and more info
May 27 14:21:37 <stefan_schmidt> Have to go. Have fun guys
May 27 14:21:39 <LuitvD> balrog-kun: I keep finding things in the patches that are interesting to add to the page XD
May 27 14:21:47 <LuitvD> stefan_schmidt: later dude
May 27 14:21:48 <Vegar> can you post what you have?
May 27 14:22:01 <Vegar> you know, in case your browser should crash
May 27 14:22:05 <LuitvD> not just yet, patience please :P
May 27 14:22:24 <LuitvD> Vegar: I'm not dumb you know... :P I'm editing the page in gEdit ;)
May 27 14:22:41 <Vegar> do you want me to tell you about gedit?
May 27 14:23:12 <LuitvD> gedit is just a text editor...
May 27 14:23:21 <balrog-kun> LuitvD: feel free to also edit http://www.handhelds.org/moin/moin.cgi/HandheldHardwareXref
May 27 14:23:27 <buz> mhh hxd8 some sort of mediaplayer recorder?
May 27 14:23:37 <Vegar> LuitvD: yeah, that's what they want you to think
May 27 14:23:38 <buz> or did you find gsm as well
May 27 14:23:53 <LuitvD> buz: it is a phone :P
May 27 14:24:02 <buz> then its the iphone killer
May 27 14:24:04 <LuitvD> didn't find which gsm module it is yet
May 27 14:24:08 <LuitvD> it's widescreen
May 27 14:24:11 <buz> yeah
May 27 14:24:11 <SpeedEvil> Something with GSM isn't automatically a phone.
May 27 14:24:21 <LuitvD> and it might have 4G of RAM :P
May 27 14:24:25 <buz> nand
May 27 14:24:28 <LuitvD> nand
May 27 14:24:28 <buz> not ram
May 27 14:24:29 <LuitvD> yes
May 27 14:24:32 <LuitvD> sorry
May 27 14:24:39 <LuitvD> 128MB RAM, 4G nand
May 27 14:24:48 <balrog-kun> LuitvD: that's 4G bits, i.e 0.5 gigabytes
May 27 14:24:49 <LuitvD> but that can be 4Gb as well...
May 27 14:25:09 <balrog-kun> but there are two more NAND chips in it iirc
May 27 14:25:18 <buz> hence the idea of the iphone killer
May 27 14:25:18 <LuitvD> balrog-kun: I don't think so...
May 27 14:25:19 <balrog-kun> or at least there is space for three chips or something
May 27 14:25:29 <LuitvD> don't think so...
May 27 14:25:40 <buz> i read something about 3 chips on the ml
May 27 14:25:44 <LuitvD> the patches tell me there's 1, and just 1 NAND chip
May 27 14:25:54 <LuitvD> so I'm not sure about that one
May 27 14:26:09 <LuitvD> that's why making that wiki page isn't that easy :P 
May 27 14:26:16 <LuitvD> contradictions all around
May 27 14:26:23 <buz> if it really has a gsm module, i'm really sad that it doesnt have a vga scree nas well
May 27 14:26:38 <SpeedEvil> I don't care about VGA screen.
May 27 14:26:56 <SpeedEvil> I'd quite like one with a 256*256 mono display.
May 27 14:27:19 <SpeedEvil> VGA is only needed IMO if screen 4" or so.
May 27 14:27:20 <buz> yeah but then i want keypad
May 27 14:27:28 <SpeedEvil> >4"
May 27 14:28:01 <LuitvD> SpeedEvil: the HXD8 is told to have 480x274 or something like that
May 27 14:28:03 <LuitvD> widescreen
May 27 14:28:06 <LuitvD> I guess...
May 27 14:28:12 <LuitvD> still looking that up in the patches
May 27 14:28:18 <aloril> (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Buying_Interest_List]] [[Wish_List_-_Hardware]] [[Hardware:Keyboards]]
May 27 14:28:28 <LuitvD> found the type of camera chip already
May 27 14:28:34 <LuitvD> and led sensor
May 27 14:28:35 <buz> which one
May 27 14:28:47 <LuitvD> {| style="background-color:#EFEFFF;color:#000;border:1px solid #9F9FFF;margin:1em 5% 1em 5%;"
May 27 14:28:47 <LuitvD> | style="padding:0.5em 0.5em;" |
May 27 14:28:47 <LuitvD> | style="padding:0.5em 0.5em;" | <b>Speculations:</b> This {{{1|article or section}}} documents a device that is <i>not yet confirmed</i> formally and the device (if even released) <i>may differ</i> from the specifications given here. This page is based on well educated guesses, not facts. 
May 27 14:28:47 <LuitvD> |}
May 27 14:28:47 <LuitvD> It looks like FIC is going to develop another device for OpenMoko quite soon, with the (code)name <b>HXD8</b>. On May 26th (GMT) Sean [http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2007-May/005407.html confirmed] the existence of the device, said hardware support was almost done and cleverly told us to wait anxiously. 
May 27 14:28:51 <LuitvD> ==Hardware==
May 27 14:28:53 <LuitvD> From the information found in the [https://svn.openmoko.org/trunk/doc/hardware/HXD8v011/ hardware documentation] and [https://svn.openmoko.org/trunk/src/target/kernel/patches/ kernel patches] parts of the subversion repositories, the following specifications can be predicted.
May 27 14:28:59 <LuitvD> ===Processor===
May 27 14:29:01 <LuitvD> According to https://svn.openmoko.org/trunk/src/target/kernel/patches/s3c2440-nand-disable-hwecc.patch the HXD8 will feature an [http://www.samsung.com/Products/Semiconductor/common/product_list.aspx?family_cd=MSC0102 S3C2440], capable of running up to 400MHz. The features are the same as the [http://www.samsung.com/products/semiconductor/MobileSoC/ApplicationProcessor/ARM9Series/S3C2410/S3C2410.htm S3C2410] plus a camera interface. 
May 27 14:29:06 <LuitvD> *GPIO Assignments: https://svn.openmoko.org/trunk/doc/hardware/HXD8v011/gpio.txt
May 27 14:29:07 <SpeedEvil> You don't really need the light sensor, if you have a camera.
May 27 14:29:08 <LuitvD> ===Flash===
May 27 14:29:10 <LuitvD> According to the currently available hardware patches, the device supports 1 NAND Flash device of up to 4G. (uncertain about what kind of G that is. Could be 4Gb (which makes about 0,5GB), could be 4GB).
May 27 14:29:12 <SpeedEvil> Generally.
May 27 14:29:13 <LuitvD> ===RAM===
May 27 14:29:15 <LuitvD> 128MB Random Access Memory, of which 2MB is used as a Framebuffer. https://svn.openmoko.org/trunk/src/target/u-boot/patches/uboot-hxd8.patch
May 27 14:29:18 <LuitvD> ===GSM/GPRS===
May 27 14:29:19 <SpeedEvil> As you can use the camera as a light sensor.
May 27 14:29:20 <LuitvD> Not much info yet. 
May 27 14:29:22 <LuitvD> ===LCD Module (LCM)===
May 27 14:29:24 <LuitvD> ===Camera===
May 27 14:29:28 <LuitvD> The Omnivision OM7670 Camerachip Image S
May 27 14:29:30 <LuitvD> sheiße
May 27 14:29:32 <LuitvD> that wasn't my intention :P
May 27 14:29:34 <LuitvD> http://www.ovt.com/data/parts/pdf/Brief7670V2.2.pdf
May 27 14:29:38 <LuitvD> SpeedEvil: that type light sensor is mostly used for backlight setting
May 27 14:29:47 <LuitvD> (according to it's datasheet)
May 27 14:29:58 <SpeedEvil> Hmm. It's just a single pixel?
May 27 14:29:59 <buz> vga sensors are next to useless in my view
May 27 14:30:09 <Philippe> LuitvD: that is what they use light sensors for usually
May 27 14:30:23 <SpeedEvil> IMO - not. VGA sensors are quite good enough for snaps of stuff.
May 27 14:30:33 <LuitvD> Philippe: yes, but it's either for that or for exposure prediction
May 27 14:30:34 <buz> the thing does 30fps
May 27 14:30:44 <SpeedEvil> For example, buisness cards, or 'photo notes'
May 27 14:30:44 <buz> i still think itps probably some sort of recorder more than snapshot cam
May 27 14:30:47 <LuitvD> Philippe: nothing implies either of those
May 27 14:31:04 <Philippe> LuitvD: well it could also be used for both :-)
May 27 14:31:35 <LuitvD> Philippe: yes, placement of the sensor will tell for which one of those functions it is used 
May 27 14:31:52 <buz> business cards in vga?
May 27 14:31:52 <SpeedEvil> Depending where the camera points.
May 27 14:31:57 <buz> not really helpful for ocr
May 27 14:31:59 <SpeedEvil> Snapping them I mean.
May 27 14:32:12 <buz> most ocr phones have 2mpixel
May 27 14:32:15 <SpeedEvil> Oh come on, it's 200DPI or so.
May 27 14:32:27 <LuitvD> buz: it's good enough... interleaving helps a lot :P
May 27 14:32:41 <buz> ocr sucks even with 600 dpi flatbeds
May 27 14:32:48 <SpeedEvil> Umm - no.
May 27 14:32:53 <SpeedEvil> Not decent OCR.
May 27 14:33:08 <SpeedEvil> And free OCR != decent OCR alas.
May 27 14:33:12 <buz> thats true
May 27 14:33:23 <buz> but decent ocr uses a lot of language processing that doesnt work very well on names
May 27 14:33:35 <LuitvD> ah well, who needs buisinesscards when there's semacode :P
May 27 14:34:02 <LuitvD> semacode tags can easily be interpreted with CIF cameras
May 27 14:34:08 <SpeedEvil> Even just having an image of the card is often handy.
May 27 14:34:13 <VilleWitt> Has there been any talks about baseing the IM client on telepathy?
May 27 14:34:13 <aloril> VilleWitt: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.)
May 27 14:34:56 <SpeedEvil> Not to mention simple stuff like "where did that bolt go" or "what was the price on that bag of lime", which a camera can trivially help with if you snap lots.
May 27 14:35:09 <Philippe> Well I wonder if OCR is going to be useful on a phone anyway....
May 27 14:35:15 <SpeedEvil> Why not?
May 27 14:35:29 <SpeedEvil> It's got plenty of CPU power. 
May 27 14:35:34 <Philippe> make a snap and wait for 15min until it managed to process what you want
May 27 14:35:34 <buz> handwrite ocr would be neat to make notes
May 27 14:35:47 <Vegar> I attempted OCR with gocr and a webcam (640x480)
May 27 14:35:47 <buz> much easier to scribble on paper than touchscreens
May 27 14:35:52 <Vegar> didn't work very well
May 27 14:35:55 <buz> gocr is useless
May 27 14:36:14 <Vegar> what would you use then?
May 27 14:36:16 <SpeedEvil> I used to do OCR on P166 - worked fine.
May 27 14:36:19 <buz> maybe that google project will yield useable ocr at some point
May 27 14:36:21 <Philippe> there was an article on osnews that pointed to ocr recently I believe
May 27 14:36:27 <LuitvD> one thing I can't figure out is why the device features an ADC+DAC chip, and a temperature sensing chip...
May 27 14:36:30 <SpeedEvil> The bundled corel product, that I forget the name of.
May 27 14:36:35 <Philippe> SpeedEvil: P166 has floating point, ARM9 no.
May 27 14:36:46 <SpeedEvil> Philippe: True - it's at most a factor of 3.
May 27 14:36:53 * Philippe is afraid OCR is floating point intensive
May 27 14:36:56 <SpeedEvil> Maybe 4.
May 27 14:37:12 <Vegar> SpeedEvil: text bridge?
May 27 14:37:16 <SpeedEvil> And I wouldn't be scanning large books - for which it only took 30s/page or so.
May 27 14:37:29 <SpeedEvil> I've used textbridge, but that was on bigger hardware.
May 27 14:37:45 <buz> http://sourceforge.net/projects/tesseract-ocr
May 27 14:38:01 <SpeedEvil> Umm - Some sort of cyrix P300 equiv IIRC
May 27 14:38:26 <SpeedEvil> The real problem with buisness cards is the propensity to wierd fonts.
May 27 14:38:57 <Philippe> Well you could solve part of the issue by having a gui that lets you selected the part you want ocr info from
May 27 14:39:07 <LuitvD> why would a mobile phone need an 8-bit A/D and D/A converter...
May 27 14:39:09 <LuitvD> anyone?
May 27 14:39:19 <Philippe> LuitvD: audio?
May 27 14:39:23 <buz> tv out?
May 27 14:39:34 <buz> if it can record video, you want tvout
May 27 14:39:51 <LuitvD> accelerometers? :P
May 27 14:39:58 <Philippe> buz: 8bit ADC for video might be pretty crappy :-)
May 27 14:40:15 <buz> point
May 27 14:40:20 <LuitvD> http://www.tau.ac.il/~stoledo/lego/i2c-8591-lis3l02as4/ ...
May 27 14:40:23 <SpeedEvil> What sample rate?
May 27 14:40:55 <LuitvD> my best guess is accelerometer readout
May 27 14:41:07 <SpeedEvil> How many channels?
May 27 14:41:08 <Vegar> buz: interesting
May 27 14:41:17 <SpeedEvil> You will need 3 channels for accellerometers.
May 27 14:41:28 <SpeedEvil> If it's the same one as in the WII, which it probably is.
May 27 14:41:48 <buz> does it have graphics acceleration?
May 27 14:41:53 <LuitvD> SpeedEvil: it's 4 channel A/D
May 27 14:41:59 <LuitvD> and 1-channel D/A
May 27 14:42:06 <keesj> perhaps for a touch screen ?
May 27 14:42:09 <SpeedEvil> D/A for backlight maybe.
May 27 14:42:19 <balrog-kun> tesseract is also quite poor at doing its job i hear
May 27 14:42:25 <LuitvD> keesj: the S3C2440 has touchscreen control on chip
May 27 14:42:44 <balrog-kun> it was written in the 80s
May 27 14:44:04 <buz> how about one channel for each of RGB?
May 27 14:44:28 <LuitvD> buz: i still think accelerometer is a better guess...
May 27 14:44:29 <SpeedEvil> Not if it's on SPI/I2C
May 27 14:44:37 <SpeedEvil> simply not the bandwidth there to do video.
May 27 14:46:20 <LuitvD> it is on i2c...
May 27 14:46:38 <roh> accellerometers usually are on i2c or spi on such devices
May 27 14:46:49 <roh> nobody uses analog parts there anymore
May 27 14:46:57 <LuitvD> roh: no, most accelerometers are analog output
May 27 14:47:06 <balrog-kun> i2c can be quite clocked pretty high, probably comparable with usb
May 27 14:47:15 <roh> LuitvD none of which are usefull for a mobile phone
May 27 14:47:16 <LuitvD> balrog-kun: 400kHz
May 27 14:47:20 <buz> usb1 or usb2
May 27 14:47:47 <balrog-kun> LuitvD: that's a limit for i2c in general? or a particular device?
May 27 14:48:12 <LuitvD> roh: what's your guess then? for the use of that 8-bit 4-channel A/D and 1-channel D/A converter
May 27 14:48:31 <LuitvD> balrog-kun: I guess 400kHz is the max according to the i2c specs...
May 27 14:48:34 <roh> LuitvD where?
May 27 14:48:41 <LuitvD> so 400kbps is the max transfer rate
May 27 14:48:42 <SpeedEvil> roh: the analog ones are _still_ cheaper than the I2C ones.
May 27 14:48:47 <LuitvD> roh: in the HXD8
May 27 14:49:01 <SpeedEvil> Often a fair bit cheaper, the one in the wii goes for $5 at 1K
May 27 14:49:16 <LuitvD> SpeedEvil: and that one is analog output, right?
May 27 14:49:20 <SpeedEvil> Yes.
May 27 14:49:30 <roh> LuitvD ah.. can't tell.. sorry
May 27 14:49:32 <LuitvD> SpeedEvil: then the PCF chip makes it I2C :P
May 27 14:49:57 <Vegar> will P1.5 have s3c2410 too?
May 27 14:50:11 <LuitvD> Vegar: s3c2440 most likely
May 27 14:50:18 <Vegar> ah
May 27 14:50:20 <Vegar> which one?
May 27 14:50:32 <LuitvD> Vegar: just THAT one :P
May 27 14:50:43 <LuitvD> are there different 2440 versions then? :P
May 27 14:50:44 <Vegar> 2440 comes in several speeds, doesn't it?
May 27 14:51:00 <LuitvD> nah, it's clocked between 300 and 400 MHz
May 27 14:51:21 <SpeedEvil> And 'slow' mode. 
May 27 14:51:26 <Vegar> "Samsung's high-speed, low-power mobile S3C2440 CPU is sampling now in 533MHz, 400MHz, and 300MHz versions"
May 27 14:51:29 <LuitvD> the speed depends on the input clock signal, I guess...
May 27 14:51:33 <Vegar> brb
May 27 14:51:43 <LuitvD> Vegar: ah, 533 would be nice :D
May 27 14:52:01 <SpeedEvil> Yes, because flaming batteries are cool!
May 27 14:57:09 <mmp> SpeedEvil: :-))) well said.
May 27 15:03:40 <LuitvD> damn, it's hard to focus at adding information to that page :P
May 27 15:04:00 <LuitvD> I keep on seeing other devices in the patches, looking those up and stuff...
May 27 15:20:53 <Bish> lol flaming batteries
May 27 15:23:57 <LuitvD> what's USB UDC?
May 27 15:24:23 <balrog-kun> USB Device Controller
May 27 15:24:32 <balrog-kun> USB UDC is a (what do they call them)...
May 27 15:24:47 <LuitvD> yeah, know what you mean
May 27 15:24:56 <LuitvD> like GNU's Not Unix
May 27 15:25:10 <Vegar> recursive acronym?
May 27 15:25:17 <balrog-kun> Vegar: not really
May 27 15:25:22 <balrog-kun> line PIN number or ATM machine
May 27 15:25:28 <balrog-kun> or NIC card
May 27 15:25:30 <Vegar> ah
May 27 15:26:12 <balrog-kun> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAS_syndrome lol
May 27 15:26:25 <LuitvD> Vegar: GNU's Not Unix is a recursive acronym
May 27 15:27:25 <balrog-kun> oh, pleonasm is the correct term
May 27 15:27:39 <LuitvD> balrog-kun: not really...
May 27 15:28:38 <LuitvD> "free gift" is a pleonasm
May 27 15:28:57 <balrog-kun> hmm okay
May 27 15:29:42 <LuitvD> enough of that, I already passed english class :P
May 27 15:29:49 <LuitvD> so I don't really care anymore :)
May 27 15:35:02 <Vegar> meh
May 27 15:35:10 <Vegar> I have my finals next week
May 27 15:35:21 <Vegar> can't wait till it's over
May 27 15:35:39 <Vegar> then I can stop caring too
May 27 15:35:45 <SpeedEvil> Just think! In a fortnight, you can flip burgers!
May 27 15:35:54 <SpeedEvil> :)
May 27 15:36:09 <SpeedEvil> Or work at microsoft.
May 27 15:36:45 * buz wonders why they dont automate burger flipping
May 27 15:36:53 <buz> cant be so hard
May 27 15:37:12 <SpeedEvil> They can't get the machine to properly wipe simulated nose-pickings on the burgers.
May 27 17:42:33 <X-Cray> SpeedEvil, Hi!
May 27 17:42:51 <SpeedEvil> hi.
May 27 17:43:12 <X-Cray> can you write something on http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2007-May/005412.html ?
May 27 17:43:12 <aloril> X-Cray: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.)
May 27 17:44:03 <SpeedEvil> What about it?
May 27 17:44:31 <X-Cray> about neo bandwidth
May 27 17:44:47 <X-Cray> memory bandwidth
May 27 17:44:49 <SpeedEvil> I forget. I worked it out once. 
May 27 17:44:55 <SpeedEvil> In short.
May 27 17:45:01 <SpeedEvil> Memory bandwidth takes power.
May 27 17:45:05 <SpeedEvil> More, the more power.
May 27 17:45:13 <SpeedEvil> Neglecting any CPU impact.
May 27 17:45:40 <SpeedEvil> As an unrelated datapoint, going from 24->4 bit X on my laptop gains me 10% runtime.
May 27 17:46:08 <X-Cray> )
May 27 17:46:34 <X-Cray> thanx
May 27 17:47:06 <buz> what gpu
May 27 17:47:29 <SpeedEvil> GPU?
May 27 17:48:19 <buz> graphics processing unit
May 27 17:48:22 <X-Cray> GPU is not related here as far as I understand...
May 27 17:48:30 <buz> it is related to his laptop thingy
May 27 17:48:33 <SpeedEvil> There is no GPU in the neo.
May 27 17:48:56 <buz> but in your laptop
May 27 17:49:04 <SpeedEvil> Oh - right.
May 27 17:49:15 <SpeedEvil> One that shares memory with the system RAM
May 27 17:49:18 <SpeedEvil> An old one.
May 27 17:49:20 <SpeedEvil> PII/300
May 27 17:49:21 <buz> ah intel probably
May 27 17:49:35 <SpeedEvil> no
May 27 17:49:37 <buz> oh right
May 27 17:49:47 <buz> probably not entirely representative for today ;)=
May 27 17:50:03 <SpeedEvil> maybe.
May 27 17:53:52 <LuitvD> anybody seen laforge lately?
May 27 17:53:54 <morricone> counter
May 27 17:53:55 <aloril> http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 50%) P1: 2 days 09:03:01 (2.377 +-2.4 days) (1295;215)
May 27 17:55:08 <buz> ~seen laf0rge
May 27 17:55:22 <buz> doesnt look like it ;)
May 27 17:55:27 <apt> laf0rge <n=laforge@59-115-128-248.dynamic.hinet.net> was last seen on IRC in channel #openmoko, 8d 11h 13m 4s ago, saying: 'pjz: the problem is you only learn about all possible hardware bugs as the software evolves ;)'.
May 27 17:55:34 <Hopscotch> laforge is in leipzig
May 27 17:55:36 <buz> oh now
May 27 17:55:39 <LuitvD> ah
May 27 17:55:47 <buz> apt has lag
May 27 17:55:52 <LuitvD> not for a week already...
May 27 17:56:17 <buz> why is apt called apt anyway
May 27 17:56:21 <LuitvD> buz: apt is slow on brainz today
May 27 17:56:24 <buz> ~apt
May 27 17:56:26 <apt> extra, extra, read all about it, apt is the debian package manager and nothing to do with ibot, infobot, jbot or purl
May 27 17:56:28 <LuitvD> :P
May 27 17:56:35 <buz> probably went partying too hard last night eh
May 27 17:56:41 <buz> ~botsnack
May 27 17:56:41 <apt> :), buz
May 27 17:56:46 <LuitvD> hehehe
May 27 17:56:55 <LuitvD> ibot or jbot?
May 27 17:57:00 * buz hands apt alka seltzer
May 27 17:59:23 <LuitvD> ~karma apt
May 27 17:59:23 <apt> apt has karma of 9
May 27 18:00:01 <LuitvD> ~karma sean
May 27 18:00:01 <apt> sean has neutral karma
May 27 18:00:03 <LuitvD> XD
May 27 18:00:51 <LuitvD> apt: bullshit
May 27 18:01:09 <apt> bullshit is, like, If you want to speak bullshit, please go to #debian.bullshit.  sdf dflkj Linux sucks sfg yo momma dfg #debian.bullshit
May 27 18:01:32 <LuitvD> bullshit
May 27 18:01:33 <LuitvD> XD
May 27 18:01:43 <LuitvD> apt can do bullshit
May 27 18:02:20 <LuitvD> ~ebonify buz
May 27 18:02:22 <LuitvD> :)
May 27 18:02:55 <buz> doesnt seem to do anything
May 27 18:03:31 <LuitvD> not yet?
May 27 18:03:38 <LuitvD> apt's really slow...
May 27 18:03:59 <buz> self tanning cream seems more efficient than apt
May 27 18:04:12 <buz> its just hard to apply evenyl
May 27 18:05:07 <LuitvD> PONG XD
May 27 18:05:21 <buz> so i dont have lag
May 27 18:05:24 <buz> not sure about apt really
May 27 18:05:35 <LuitvD> ping reply from you in nearly half a sec
May 27 18:05:42 <LuitvD> that's not very quick :P
May 27 18:05:53 <buz> 213ms lag according to konversation
May 27 18:06:13 <buz> thats surviveable
May 27 18:06:13 <LuitvD> 440 according to XChat
May 27 18:06:29 <buz> clearly, xchat must be slow
May 27 18:06:30 <LuitvD> hm, now it's < 150
May 27 18:06:39 <LuitvD> no, orange is slow on ping
May 27 18:07:02 <LuitvD> it's routing servers' IP adresses are unadvertized, which makes it very slow
May 27 18:07:49 <LuitvD> which is bloody stupid, that even an ISP can make a mistake like that
May 27 18:20:57 <X-Cray> ~karma X-Cray
May 27 18:20:58 <apt> x-cray has neutral karma
May 27 18:27:50 <X-Cray> apt: version
May 27 18:28:04 <apt> [version] Kernel: uname -r.  Debian: cat /etc/debian_version. and: dpkg -l libc6 | tail -1.  Package: dpkg -l _pkgname_.  Miscellaneous: try --version on the command. check /etc/apt/sources.list; run apt-cache policy <packagename>
May 27 18:28:18 <aloril> (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[User:Cray]]
May 27 18:31:09 <X-Cray> apt: help
May 27 18:31:32 <ewon> counter
May 27 18:31:32 <aloril> http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 50%) P1: 2 days 08:44:12 (2.364 +-2.4 days) (1296;215)
May 27 18:32:58 <Freed> if I try to build openmoko on x86-64, will work ?
May 27 18:32:58 <aloril> Freed: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.)
May 27 18:37:05 <X-Cray> ~wikipedia CPU
May 27 18:37:13 <apt> At http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CPU (URL), Wikipedia explains: "{{pp-semi-protected}} {{redirect|CPU}} microprocessor (actual size: 12×6.75 mm) in its packaging]] A 'central processing unit' ('CPU'), or sometimes simply 'processor,' is the component in a digital computer that interprets computer program instructions and processes data. CPUs provide the ...
May 27 18:38:34 <LuitvD> ~wikipedia OpenMoko
May 27 18:38:40 <apt> At http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenMoko (URL), Wikipedia explains: "{{Expand|date=March 2007}} 'OpenMoko' is a project to create a smartphone platform using free software. It uses the Linux kernel, together with a graphical user environment built using X.Org Server, Matchbox window manager and Novell Evolution email client. The OpenEmbedded build framework and ...
May 27 18:38:47 <X-Cray> =)
May 27 18:39:39 <X-Cray> ~md5 OpenMoko
May 27 18:39:41 <apt> 15c0de115b5faa370cd24320407b1f77
May 27 18:40:53 <LuitvD> :)
May 27 18:40:54 <LuitvD> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/HXD8
May 27 18:41:20 <LuitvD> I gathered all the rumors and guesses, and put it together :)
May 27 18:41:27 <LuitvD> now let's see what will be added
May 27 18:47:57 * balrog-kun checks something
May 27 18:48:39 <balrog-kun> LuitvD: i'm pretty sure it's 0.5 GB (4Gb) for the NAND size
May 27 18:49:12 <LuitvD> yeah...
May 27 18:49:20 <LuitvD> oh well, edit it, if you're sure ;)
May 27 18:50:04 <LuitvD> it's quite much, compared to what the Neo has :)
May 27 18:50:12 <balrog-kun> 4 GB chips may exist, but the largest listed in the Linux NAND driver are 16 Gb which is 2 GB
May 27 18:50:36 <balrog-kun> not all IDs are used up, so since that file was written, 4 GB chips may have been invented
May 27 18:52:17 <balrog-kun> there are 255 possible IDs and the chart can identify only about 80 types
May 27 18:56:41 <buz> i'd venture to say that 4GB chips do exist
May 27 18:56:47 <buz> i doubt they put 2 chips into microsd
May 27 18:59:29 <balrog-kun> i think that's a different technology, but i don't really know
May 27 18:59:39 <buz> http://www.simmtester.com/page/news/shownews.asp?title=Samsung+to+raise+price+on+8-Gigabyte+Flash+chip&num=10119
May 27 18:59:42 <balrog-kun> SDs are expected to be very slow compared to ROMs
May 27 18:59:52 <buz> iirc, sd is nand too
May 27 19:00:14 <buz> looks like 8GB exists, even
May 27 19:00:51 <balrog-kun> this text says Gb (but also says gigabytes) :)
May 27 19:01:00 <buz> yeah
May 27 19:01:15 <buz> wikipedia also refers to 8GByte
May 27 19:01:50 <balrog-kun> okay
May 27 19:02:45 <buz> http://www.letsgodigital.org/en/news/articles/story_13819.html not sure if this is single chip though
May 27 19:02:58 <buz> ah no, 16gbit chips
May 27 19:04:19 <mjr> yeah, seems so
May 27 19:04:47 <balrog-kun> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:HP_PhotoSmart_SDIO_Kamera.jpg that's a neat gadget
May 27 19:05:32 <mjr> curious thingy, yes
May 27 19:05:51 <buz> i wonder how long this works
May 27 19:05:56 <buz> looks like it would break off quickly
May 27 19:06:04 <mmp> balrog-kun: yes, for sdio-enabled kernels...
May 27 19:06:10 <mjr> yes, a slighty flimsy look about it
May 27 19:06:29 <buz> i wonder about a simple usb cam
May 27 19:06:32 <mmp> balrog-kun: is SDIO stack already capable of driving things like this?
May 27 19:06:50 <buz> well you cant use it with neo in any sane way anyhow
May 27 19:07:30 <MetaBookfoziS> and, how you put this under the battery?:)
May 27 19:07:34 <mmp> buz: according to one my friend, SD allows chaining :)
May 27 19:07:57 <buz> still, how do you stick into a microsd slot under the battery?
May 27 19:08:14 <balrog-kun> mmp: i'm not sure how advanced the SDIO stack is but i'm sure there's no drivers for an arbitrary camera like this on top of it
May 27 19:08:19 <mmp> buz: just carefully take wires outside :)
May 27 19:08:30 <MetaBookfoziS> :))
May 27 19:08:34 <balrog-kun> mmp: the OMAP MMC/SD host driver has no SDIO related code whatsoever
May 27 19:08:40 <mmp> balrog-kun: aha :(
May 27 19:08:42 <balrog-kun> eventhough the hardware does support sdio
May 27 19:09:07 <stefan_schmidt> zecke|study: Nice post. Anybody already stand up for the Qtopia on the Neo project?
May 27 19:09:10 <MetaBookfoziS> and is that possible one time somebody implements that?
May 27 19:10:09 <buz> luckily we dont use omap
May 27 19:13:16 <MetaBookfoziS> did we know how fast is neo''s cpu?
May 27 19:13:36 <LuitvD> balrog-kun: it's about time somebody writes them then
May 27 19:14:07 <MetaBookfoziS> it's planned to changed with a faster one, not?
May 27 19:14:18 <LuitvD> MetaBookfoziS: yes
May 27 19:15:07 <MetaBookfoziS> how faster one?
May 27 19:15:19 <LuitvD> MetaBookfoziS: currently an s3c2410 is used (as of GTA01v4), which might become the s3c2440 at GTA02
May 27 19:15:31 <MetaBookfoziS> in mhz?
May 27 19:15:41 <buz> 266now
May 27 19:15:41 <X-Cray> 266
May 27 19:15:43 <LuitvD> the current one is 233 or 266? and the new one can do at least 400
May 27 19:15:47 <buz> 400 or 533 later
May 27 19:15:49 <MetaBookfoziS> 266 the current
May 27 19:15:57 <MetaBookfoziS> huh , cool
May 27 19:16:01 <LuitvD> right, 266 now, 533 later
May 27 19:16:07 <MetaBookfoziS> cool
May 27 19:16:09 <buz> howwever, megahurtz is a bad measure ;)
May 27 19:16:14 <LuitvD> jup
May 27 19:16:16 <MetaBookfoziS> yup
May 27 19:16:26 <zecke|study> stefan_schmidt: eek. people actually read that :}
May 27 19:16:27 <LuitvD> though not if it's based on the same core (which it is)
May 27 19:16:32 <MetaBookfoziS> thast become faster than my second machine in my life:D
May 27 19:16:37 <buz> does it use the same memory?
May 27 19:16:40 <MetaBookfoziS> that  runs quake3:D
May 27 19:16:48 <buz> maybe not
May 27 19:16:50 <buz> no fpu
May 27 19:16:51 <LuitvD> buz: maybe, maybe not
May 27 19:17:06 <buz> but 266mhz arm is way faster than my first pc
May 27 19:17:14 <LuitvD> heheh, same here
May 27 19:17:23 <buz> and i came late to the game
May 27 19:17:28 <LuitvD> (my first PC revved up to about 2MHz?
May 27 19:17:29 <buz> with a 486 dx2 ;)
May 27 19:17:36 <mmp> MetaBookfoziS: it should run quake1, though :)
May 27 19:17:40 <MetaBookfoziS> :D
May 27 19:17:45 * mmp guesses
May 27 19:17:47 <zecke|study> stefan_schmidt: well, Matthias Ettrich, Knut Yrvin, Robert Griebl will likely staff the trolltech booth, with some luck I can talk them into doing it 
May 27 19:17:51 <keitsi> I just compiled 2.4.16 kernel on a P 133MHz :P
May 27 19:17:51 <buz> heck, my core 2 duo has as much *cache* as i had ram in my first machine
May 27 19:17:51 <LuitvD> buz: omg, even I was in the game earlier :P
May 27 19:17:53 <keitsi> that was pain
May 27 19:18:05 <LuitvD> buz: my (or my dad's) first was the Commodore PET
May 27 19:18:07 <LuitvD> :)
May 27 19:18:18 <LuitvD> and after that, Commodore 64 :)
May 27 19:18:22 <buz> my fathers first is a imac g5
May 27 19:18:39 <MetaBookfoziS> Think forward 10years, the neo2059 will be fast as todays core 2 duo machines, lol future.
May 27 19:18:42 <buz> (tho technically, he has used mainframes in the 70s)
May 27 19:18:59 <stefan_schmidt> zecke|study: Perhaps some of the htc-linux guys are also interested. Some of them use Opie2 on the HTCs
May 27 19:19:01 <MetaBookfoziS> The problem is, i think the word has end before  that:/:)
May 27 19:19:25 <LuitvD> MetaBookfoziS: or the mobile phones 10 years from now are thin clients connected to the Internet5
May 27 19:19:26 <X-Cray> :')
May 27 19:19:44 <buz> LuitvD: Teledesic ;)
May 27 19:19:56 <LuitvD> :D
May 27 19:20:41 <buz> i watched blood diamond last night and kept wondering just what size sat phones had in the late 90s?
May 27 19:20:54 <buz> were they really as small as the first gsm phones?
May 27 19:21:18 <LuitvD> I don't think you can use the word small there XD
May 27 19:21:29 <LuitvD> s/can/can't/ 
May 27 19:21:41 <buz> well for something that gets a fix in the midst of the jungle....
May 27 19:21:47 <stefan_schmidt> Elrond: Any news on GPS on bv3?
May 27 19:22:45 <CoreDump|home> any news on a precise GPS lock w/ gllin an bv4 or bv3? my "locks" are always a few hundred meters off...
May 27 19:23:17 <buz> please dont pilot an oil tanker with your neo then
May 27 19:23:35 <CoreDump|home> buz: I'll try to resist the urge =)
May 27 19:23:49 <buz> seabirds will thank you
May 27 19:23:55 <Vegar> are these locks inside or outside, CoreDump|home?
May 27 19:24:08 <CoreDump|home> outside
May 27 19:24:27 <CoreDump|home> on the top of a building to be precise 09
May 27 19:24:37 <Vegar> tall building?
May 27 19:24:47 <CoreDump|home> nahh
May 27 19:25:18 <CoreDump|home> but I'm not blocked by any other larger buildings
May 27 19:28:23 <ewon> few hundred metres?
May 27 19:28:26 <ewon> what's it based on?
May 27 19:28:33 <ewon> anything sirf-III based should be <10m
May 27 19:29:24 * CoreDump|home hopes it is a driver problem...
May 27 19:30:07 <buz> global locate
May 27 19:31:43 <wiml> I thought global locate
May 27 19:31:58 <wiml> (errr) ... I thought GL's hardware was based on one of the other gps vendors
May 27 19:32:16 <buz> what is the theoretical limit for gps accuracy?
May 27 19:32:18 <ewon> GOTT IN HUMMEL
May 27 19:32:25 <ewon> DAST IST NICKT EIN SIRF!?
May 27 19:32:54 <ewon> madness I tell you, madness...
May 27 19:33:06 <wiml> GL's thing is that they move some processing onto the host cpu instead of having an extra ARM core in the gps module
May 27 19:33:47 <wiml> buz: arbitrarily good, if you're willing to accumulate data for an arbitrarily long time :)
May 27 19:33:53 <ewon> greh
May 27 19:34:05 <ewon> sounds rather horrible and proprietary
May 27 19:34:10 <buz> i somehow doubt that
May 27 19:34:16 <ewon> is there some way of getting an NMEA string out of it?
May 27 19:34:43 <CoreDump|home> ewon: yeah
May 27 19:34:47 <ewon> not so bad so
May 27 19:34:58 <ewon> IME offloading onto host cpu = shite
May 27 19:35:20 <wiml> buz: shrug, believe it or not
May 27 19:35:52 <wiml> ewon: IMHO, if the offloading is done sensibly, it's a good thing. it saves power and hw. in GL's case, it does mean having an icky proprietary daemon on the host.
May 27 19:36:18 <wiml> buz: surveying gps's get millimeter accuracy
May 27 19:36:35 <buz> thats very impressive but not arbitrary precision
May 27 19:36:39 <buz> you just can't have that
May 27 19:37:14 <wiml> http://www.ngs.noaa.gov/ANTCAL/images/summary.html
May 27 19:37:58 <wiml> ah, I see what you mean
May 27 19:38:15 <wiml> yah, eventually the amount of time you need to integrate is long enough that the continents will drift under you
May 27 19:39:05 <wiml> ~1 millimeter per month
May 27 19:39:17 <buz> depends a lot on the continent
May 27 19:41:43 <wiml> on the other hand, one of the things gps is used for is measuring continental drift (and other motions of the earth), so taking measurements over a long time and fitting to a curve can continue to get improved accuracy even when integration time is long enough for your receiver to have moved significantly
May 27 19:42:14 <buz> are the satellite orbits really that accurate?
May 27 19:42:36 <Vegar> I bet those GPSes can use a few more satellites than we can
May 27 19:43:11 <buz> well you cant use more than 12, i think
May 27 19:43:28 <X-Cray> we can use DGPS
May 27 19:43:58 <wiml> buz: dunno
May 27 19:44:19 <buz> afaik, 12 is the most you ever see at a time
May 27 19:44:24 <wiml> I think they're kept very accurate *on average*. I wonder what they reference it to? star observations?
May 27 19:44:50 <wiml> Vegar: I think they just do more elaborate processing on the signals
May 27 19:45:00 <wiml> and they have really well-characterized antennas
May 27 19:45:06 <Vegar> yeah
May 27 19:48:24 <buz> more rumours http://sicherheitsschwankung.de/post/jan/2007-05-27/next-neo1973-revision-may-use-smedia-glamo3362-gpu
May 27 19:48:49 <buz> that would be killer
May 27 19:49:08 <Vegar> GPU?
May 27 19:49:10 <Vegar> oh my
May 27 19:49:27 <wiml> whoa
May 27 19:49:39 <buz> if that is true, THERE HAVE TO BE directional pad and two buttons
May 27 19:49:52 <buz> i mean putting a GPU in a device yo ucant use for gaming...
May 27 19:50:05 <ewon> useful coprocessor
May 27 19:50:49 <Vegar> GTA02 = P1.5/P2?
May 27 19:50:53 <buz> yes
May 27 19:50:57 <Vegar> nifty
May 27 19:51:10 <buz> i wonder if GTA01 ever ships
May 27 19:51:16 <buz> or will be killed in favor of 02
May 27 19:52:00 <wiml> counter
May 27 19:52:00 <aloril> http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 50%) P1: 2 days 08:03:58 (2.336 +-2.3 days) (1297;215)
May 27 19:52:23 * wiml crosses fingers
May 27 19:56:18 <buz> The
May 27 19:56:19 <buz>  MPEG4 codec enables 30 frames per second in up to VGA resolution, producing life-like video quality on a mobile phone display
May 27 19:56:23 <buz> that would rock
May 27 19:56:48 <buz> but the 3370 would rock even more, with h.264 decoding
May 27 19:56:49 <Rince> will this be in the neo from september or later?
May 27 19:56:59 <mjr> well, that would kinda eliminate video playback issues
May 27 19:57:01 <buz> should be before september really
May 27 19:57:10 <Rince> ;)
May 27 19:57:12 <Rince> nice
May 27 19:57:18 <buz> LuitvD: does hxd sport anything like that?
May 27 19:57:41 <LuitvD> not sure
May 27 19:57:51 <buz> would make sense if it is indeed a media player
May 27 19:57:57 <LuitvD> yeah...
May 27 19:58:00 <LuitvD> it would...
May 27 19:58:15 <buz> then again you might get away decoding 480x270 video on the 2440
May 27 19:58:18 <LuitvD> only codec chip i've seen yet in the patches is the wolfson
May 27 19:58:18 <aloril> (script) planet: Jan Luebbe: Next Neo1973 revision may use the SMedia Glamo3362 GPU http://sicherheitsschwankung.de/post/jan/2007-05-27/next-neo1973-revision-may-use-smedia-glamo3362-gpu
May 27 20:11:27 <buz> this project is completely bass ackward
May 27 20:11:33 <buz> first they write code, then they announce features ;)
May 27 20:16:12 <dwery> what's the status of the GPS on the neo?
May 27 20:16:54 <woglinde> works but there is no application
May 27 20:18:00 <dwery> works means the daemon has been released?
May 27 20:19:16 <woglinde> no
May 27 20:19:35 <woglinde> there is an test application without source
May 27 20:19:49 <woglinde> which isnt in the d
May 27 20:19:52 <woglinde> dev-images
May 27 20:19:58 <woglinde> from buildhost
May 27 20:20:30 <dwery> ack. thanks.
May 27 20:21:56 <ewon> hreh
May 27 20:22:17 <LuitvD> damn, all of a sudden i've got 3-sec lag
May 27 20:22:23 <LuitvD> :P
May 27 20:22:52 <LuitvD> buz: yeah, it's not really as it's supposed to be, I guess...
May 27 20:23:07 <LuitvD> buz: there's core people working on the hardware right now :)
May 27 20:23:40 <buz> usually you sketch up big features first
May 27 20:23:43 <buz> figure out you cant do it
May 27 20:23:47 <buz> then drop it
May 27 20:23:51 <buz> and call the PoS vista
May 27 20:24:03 <LuitvD> PoS?
May 27 20:24:28 <buz> piece of brown stinky substance
May 27 20:24:41 <LuitvD> :P
May 27 20:24:58 * LuitvD is gone
May 27 20:25:09 <LuitvD> later guys
May 27 20:25:15 <LuitvD> counter
May 27 20:25:15 <aloril> http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 50%) P1: 2 days 07:47:21 (2.325 +-2.3 days) (1298;215)
May 27 20:25:42 <LuitvD> hope there's more info on that tomorrow... the end of the month is really close... 
May 27 20:29:57 <mjr> mmh
May 27 20:30:14 * mjr is even getting second thoughts about buying into P1 yet, but we'll see...
May 27 20:31:18 <aloril> (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[OpenMoko_under_QEMU]] [[HXD8]] [[Wish_List]]
May 27 20:32:12 <buz> we were promised we'd get full details on GTA02 when P1 ships
May 27 20:32:57 <mjr> yes, that's right
May 27 20:33:25 <buz> if 02 has a gpu AND wifi i'm so gonna wait
May 27 20:35:39 <mjr> there's a matter of the discount and updated realistic timeframes that interest me also...
May 27 20:36:40 <buz> yeah
May 27 20:36:47 <buz> as for realistic timeframes...
May 27 20:43:12 <WebJames> hello!
May 27 20:44:59 <mjr> buz, yes well, all the more reason to buy p1 anyway if one presumes p2-lateness :)
May 27 20:45:44 <buz> or wait if one presumes p1 slips ;)
May 27 20:47:27 <WebJames> what are the latest rumours?
May 27 20:47:27 <aloril> WebJames: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.)
May 27 20:49:20 <WebJames> aloril, shh
May 27 20:49:41 <mjr> buz, we'll have to wait for p1 anyway; question is, how long would the extra wait be
May 27 20:50:41 <buz> mjr: exactly
May 27 20:53:49 <WebJames> i guess the phase 1+ will be coming around the same time as the final release (phase 2)
May 27 20:57:14 <buz> i hope they are are earlier
May 27 20:57:17 <buz> to have enough testing
May 27 21:05:26 <pjz> counter
May 27 21:05:26 <aloril> http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 50%) P1: 2 days 07:27:15 (2.311 +-2.3 days) (1299;215)
May 27 21:30:06 <SpeedEvil> Created 'openstreetmap' on the wiki - a prototype application.
May 27 21:30:18 <SpeedEvil> err a prototype page.
May 27 21:30:28 <SpeedEvil> I'm not sure where the application would go to.
May 27 22:30:18 <aloril> (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Openstreetmap]] [[GPS_Connection_Status]]
May 27 22:38:33 <Elrond> Vegar - Yep, tried the neo in the sun. It's not really good. You usually try to make some darkness using your hand.  And BTW: It's not "mine", it's lended. :-)
May 27 22:39:01 <Vegar> then it's yours
May 27 22:39:03 <Elrond> stefan_schmidt - GPS: Nothing new since yesterday. Today, there was "real life" ;-)
May 27 22:39:32 <stefan_schmidt> Elrond: I heared about something like this. Though it was just rumors. ;)
May 27 22:39:57 <Elrond> stefan_schmidt - What rumours? Huh?
May 27 22:40:53 <stefan_schmidt> Elrond: Real life
May 27 22:41:44 <stefan_schmidt> Ah, and for new hardware: People digging into patches today to find out about new stuff and gadgets. ;)
May 27 22:45:33 <SpeedEvil> Oooh. http://dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.3373 (hacking)
May 27 22:52:39 <Elrond> "new hardware" -- Huh?
May 27 22:53:02 <stefan_schmidt> This dealextreme page looks interesting. Anybody already ordered and can tell about service, etc?
May 27 22:53:58 <SpeedEvil> I've done a couple of orders from them.
May 27 22:54:15 <SpeedEvil> Both came through more or less on time - 15 days or so.
May 27 22:54:33 <SpeedEvil> I got some nice 1AA 1W LED flashlights.
May 27 22:54:41 <SpeedEvil> $5 per, nice metal case.
May 27 22:54:41 <stefan_schmidt> SpeedEvil: USA -> UK?
May 27 22:54:50 <SpeedEvil> HK -> *
May 27 22:54:55 <stefan_schmidt> ah
May 27 22:55:05 <stefan_schmidt> The prices are nice
May 27 22:55:52 <SpeedEvil> There is a large amount of crap of course. But, for example, 10 bright LED keychain 1 led lithium flashlights for $5
May 27 22:56:05 <SpeedEvil> 9 worked fine for me, and 1 had a tiny issue.
May 27 22:56:17 <SpeedEvil> And 20 lithium batteries.
May 27 22:56:44 <stefan_schmidt> I think I'll spend an our and see if they have enough interesting stuff to let me order. :)
May 27 22:57:03 <Elrond> hehe ;)
May 27 22:57:30 <SpeedEvil> Free shipping.
May 27 22:57:32 <SpeedEvil> Even.
May 27 22:57:50 <stefan_schmidt> Yeah, that's cool, too.
May 27 22:57:59 <Elrond>  + german duty (customs) ;o)
May 27 22:58:16 <stefan_schmidt> Elrond: :(
May 27 22:58:17 <Shoragan> Elrond, we'll probably get a new GPU chip with 2D/3D acceleration :)
May 27 22:58:35 <stefan_schmidt> It looks like a shop which have all this tiny things for geeks
May 27 22:58:38 <Elrond> Shoragan - This smedia thing in GTA02?
May 27 22:59:00 <Shoragan> yes
May 27 22:59:10 <Elrond> hehe, okay. :-)
May 27 22:59:12 <SpeedEvil> stefan_schmidt: yeah - lots of wierd crap. And helicopters!
May 27 22:59:54 <stefan_schmidt> Shoragan: Perhaps I'll order at dealextreme.com, let me know if you like to add something
May 27 22:59:58 <Elrond> BTW: Is more than 100MHz unstable on the Bv03?
May 27 23:02:49 <Vegar> Elrond: is it usable if the sunlight is not shining directly on the display?
May 27 23:03:46 <Elrond> Vegar - Not perfectly, but that's nearly okay.
May 27 23:03:58 <Vegar> ok
May 27 23:04:08 <Vegar> so I can use it while sunbathing?
May 27 23:05:20 * Elrond shookles head...
May 27 23:06:10 <Elrond> You probably will try to put the sun in your back and get the neo into the shadow of your own body and get some better contrast due to your shadow.
May 27 23:07:20 <LuitvD> lol, nobody edited the HXD8 page yet? :)
May 27 23:07:56 <Elrond> So what is the hxd8?
May 27 23:11:00 <SpeedEvil> It's one of the new openmoko devices.
May 27 23:11:17 <SpeedEvil> It's a remote controlled vacuum cleaner.
May 27 23:11:25 <mjr> with a v8
May 27 23:11:33 <mjr> a vacuum cleaner's gotta move
May 27 23:12:06 <mjr> seriously though, it's clearly a gprs videophone
May 27 23:12:15 <Elrond> Wait, wait... So what's the product id of the openmoko washing machine?
May 27 23:13:12 <SpeedEvil> It's not USB. You can't run a washing machine off 2.5W.
May 27 23:13:13 <hozer> so, um
May 27 23:13:26 <hozer> what do I do to get one of these things :)
May 27 23:13:58 <Elrond> SpeedEvil - Well, usb to control it. A washing machine doesn't need to be mobile, so it can have a nice 220V connector. :)
May 27 23:13:58 <SpeedEvil> Not possible ATM.
May 27 23:14:15 <SpeedEvil> counter
May 27 23:14:15 <aloril> http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 50%) P1: 2 days 06:22:51 (2.266 +-2.3 days) (1300;215)
May 27 23:14:44 <hozer> heh, I am more interested in finding out what I need to get a Neo1973 and reasonable GSM service in the US
May 27 23:15:07 <SpeedEvil> Wait a week or so perhaps.
May 27 23:15:14 <SpeedEvil> Release date has not been revealed.
May 27 23:15:18 <Elrond> hozer - For service, check the wiki.
May 27 23:15:22 <SpeedEvil> Service depends on your carrier.
May 27 23:15:23 <hozer> cool
May 27 23:15:24 <SpeedEvil> and that
May 27 23:16:30 <hozer> well.. right now I have a treo650 and sprint
May 27 23:17:09 <hozer> so I'm wondering when I should start thinking about switching
May 27 23:18:47 <Elrond> sprint doesn't do GSM?
May 27 23:19:01 <SuN> Heh, so basically you're thinking about thinking about something?
May 27 23:19:11 <SuN> You sure plan things :D
May 27 23:19:16 <Elrond> *G*
May 27 23:21:40 <Elrond> stefan_schmidt - Before there is more news on gps-with-Bv3, I need to get an usb-extension-cable to get the neo near the window ;-)
May 27 23:21:51 <hozer> Okay, I want to switch to some linux-based phone
May 27 23:22:04 <hozer> it's just a matter of when, and what carrier.
May 27 23:22:27 <stefan_schmidt> Elrond: Just move your pc or use bluetooth for networking. :)
May 27 23:23:26 <SpeedEvil> Or remove the roof.
May 27 23:24:01 <Elrond> *giggle*
May 27 23:25:36 <Vegar> hozer: can't you buy unlocked phones?
May 27 23:25:48 <hozer> Vegar: sprint is CDMA
May 27 23:25:53 <Vegar> and use whatever carrier you want
May 27 23:26:34 <mjr> yes, whatever GSM carrier :]
May 27 23:26:55 <hozer> What is the ping latency most people are seeing on GSM connections?
May 27 23:26:56 <aloril> hozer: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.)
May 27 23:27:11 <Elrond> SpeedEvil - My royal household wouldn't like me ;o)
May 27 23:30:25 <SpeedEvil> hozer: Do you mean GPRS?
May 27 23:30:40 <SpeedEvil> hozer: GPRS latencies can be bad - up to a second or a bit more.
May 27 23:30:55 <Elrond> SpeedEvil - yuck, really?
May 27 23:30:59 <SpeedEvil> Yes.
May 27 23:31:03 <woglinde> elrond yes
May 27 23:31:10 <woglinde> *g* have a course this term
May 27 23:31:16 <woglinde> about mobil communication
May 27 23:31:31 <Elrond> Ahh, okay.
May 27 23:31:42 <woglinde> umts is better
May 27 23:31:50 <mjr> "duh" :]
May 27 23:31:52 <woglinde> but isnt available all
May 27 23:32:40 <woglinde> gprs and gsm isnt in the end isdn
May 27 23:32:44 <woglinde> ups is
May 27 23:32:45 <woglinde> *g*
May 27 23:33:05 <mjr> my gprs latency doesn't usually get quite that bad, but yes, it's slow
May 27 23:33:38 <woglinde> mjr depends where you live and how many users you have in your cell
May 27 23:33:41 <mjr> don't recall numbers now, more than 0.5 s anyway
May 27 23:33:45 <mjr> yep
May 27 23:34:42 <woglinde> okay nite
May 27 23:35:32 * SpeedEvil boggles. http://dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.2649
May 27 23:35:45 <SpeedEvil> A 5V -> 6V USB dongle.
May 27 23:35:55 <SpeedEvil> With a USB socket on the apparent output end.
May 27 23:36:13 <Vegar> what would you use that for?
May 27 23:36:51 <mjr> weird
May 27 23:37:03 <Elrond> That looks totaly out-of-spec.... is it even allowed to have a female usb-A thing?!
May 27 23:38:08 <SpeedEvil> Sure - as a socket.
May 27 23:38:38 <SpeedEvil> Vegar: the only _possible_ use I could come up with would be using high power USB devices on the ends of very long cables.
May 27 23:38:42 <Elrond> Well, a socket, that gives non-usb-voltage?
May 27 23:38:59 <SpeedEvil> But, you stand a good chance of frying stuff.
May 27 23:39:27 <mjr> yeah, to counter resistance... but pfft
May 27 23:39:30 <Elrond> If you see a 220V socket, you wouldn't expect 1kV out of it, right?
May 27 23:40:26 <mjr> Elrond, yes, 'cause that's the same ;)
May 27 23:41:24 <Vegar> "Jabra headsets compatible with MTU-HST1 require 6 volts to recharge. For these headsets, you will need a 6V USB Power Booster"
May 27 23:41:34 <SpeedEvil> Sigh.
May 27 23:41:40 <mjr> Vegar, argh
May 27 23:41:50 <SuN> Awesome product design.
May 27 23:42:01 <mjr> just great
May 27 23:42:06 <Elrond> How stupid can one design things?
May 27 23:42:15 <mjr> maybe the actualy _product_ should have the step-up chip
May 27 23:42:49 <SuN> Or just take 5V and take 5 minutes longer to charge.
May 27 23:43:07 <Elrond> mjr - Exactly.
May 27 23:45:08 <LuitvD> byebye
May 27 23:45:30 <SpeedEvil> I suspect the design process went something like: Oh damn. We have 100000 of these, and they don't charge off 5V.
May 27 23:46:12 <mjr> may be :)
May 27 23:46:55 <Elrond> hehe
May 27 23:47:12 <mjr> ah, actually
May 27 23:47:20 <mjr> looking at http://www.syncharger.com/mtip/mtip-hset-jab.htm
May 27 23:47:36 <CIA-23> openmoko: 03stefan * r2089 10/trunk/oe/conf/distro/ (include/openmoko.inc openmoko.conf): 
May 27 23:47:36 <CIA-23> openmoko: * Use OpenMoko naming instead of OpenMoko. The second was only used in the
May 27 23:47:36 <CIA-23> openmoko:  Amsterdam presentation slides. All other places use OpenMoko. Patch from
May 27 23:47:36 <CIA-23> openmoko:  Soeren Apel <abraxa@dar-clan.de>. Closes bug #505
May 27 23:48:09 <SuN> Now that's real progress. Changing OpenMoko to... OpenMoko.
May 27 23:48:23 <Vegar> I bet he typoed OpenMoKo
May 27 23:48:37 <mjr> seems that somebody's just selling a USB to power jack converter, that happens to fit the Jabra, which is apparently not an USB device
May 27 23:48:54 <SuN> Next thing they're going to upgrade 2.6.21 to 2.6.21!
May 27 23:49:11 <mjr> so a form of getting generic devices to charge off of USB
May 27 23:50:39 <SpeedEvil> But it has a USB plug and socket only.
May 27 23:51:22 <mjr> SpeedEvil, meant to be used together with one that does only the appropriate power plug, which, I guess, can be used for some 5 volt things too
May 27 23:51:44 <SpeedEvil> Hmm.
May 28 00:01:39 <SpeedEvil> Now this might be handy for your neo. http://dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.3060
May 28 00:01:46 <SpeedEvil> Especially + hub
May 28 00:03:39 <SuN> Now that is an awesome device.
May 28 00:03:49 <SuN> Would have been cool if it included a hub though.
May 28 00:03:54 <SpeedEvil> Indeed.
May 28 00:04:07 <mjr> yep, I've been thinking of getting a device like that
May 28 00:04:07 <SpeedEvil> Some duct tape can fix that though.
May 28 00:04:36 <mjr> duct tape and a three-way USB cable with power coming from that and data coming from Neo
May 28 00:05:25 <balrog-kun> enough duct tape will fix anything
May 28 00:14:51 * mjr has half a mind to get one with solar cells
May 28 00:15:08 <SpeedEvil> ?
May 28 00:15:50 <mjr> an solar charging battery, with usb interfaces in/out as well
May 28 00:15:58 <SpeedEvil> Oh - I missed that
May 28 00:16:21 <mjr> though dealextreme's one isn't overly tempting yet: http://dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.2575
May 28 00:16:33 <mjr> have seen others around somewhere
May 28 00:21:19 <CIA-23> openmoko: 03stefan * r2090 10/trunk/oe/packages/settings-daemon/settings-daemon_svn.bb: 
May 28 00:21:19 <CIA-23> openmoko: * settings-daemon recipe does not set PV and so get only build once even if
May 28 00:21:19 <CIA-23> openmoko:  upstream changes code. Also some depends and cosmetic changes. Patch from
May 28 00:21:19 <CIA-23> openmoko:  Marcin Juszkiewicz <openmoko@hrw.one.pl>. This close #566
May 28 00:21:49 <mjr> this was a bit more flexible if larger: http://www.cetsolar.com/sc150.htm
May 28 00:22:14 <mjr> though also more cell area
May 28 00:22:51 <SpeedEvil> Hmm. If the ratings of the DX one were the truth, it's a 0.5W solar cell or so.l
May 28 00:34:09 <mjr> and then there's the serious and huge one: http://www.amazon.com/Brunton-Solarport-Foldable-Charger-Battery/dp/B0007U9CZ2#moreAboutThisProduct
May 28 00:34:56 <mjr> though that doesn't even apparently have internal battery
May 28 00:35:23 <mjr> internal is essential, solar charging is just a bonus ;)
May 28 00:37:53 <Vegar> can't you use that one to charge the USB thing that did have a battery?
May 28 00:38:04 <mjr> hehe
May 28 00:38:04 <mjr> yes
May 28 00:39:18 <mjr> I'll probably buy some small one though, even if it doesn't get power that fast. Yes, I'm going be in sunny places during the summer.
May 28 00:39:44 <Vegar> during the winter, I don't see the sun at all
May 28 00:40:01 <Vegar> so solar charging is just a waste of money
May 28 00:40:40 <mjr> yeah it isn't gonna be very useful year-around here either
May 28 00:41:05 <mjr> 's why one wants it to double as simply an extra battery
May 28 00:57:18 <aloril> (script) openmoko-community: Sean Moss-Pultz <sean at openmoko.com> Re: Specs and Docs
May 28 02:04:35 * rwhitby notices Sean's testimonial for MokoMakefile :-)
May 28 02:32:18 <aloril> (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Main_Page/es]]
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Mon May 28 02:59:56 2007