**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Jun 11 02:59:57 2007 Jun 11 03:17:47 openmoko: 03mickey * r2213 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/panel-plugins/openmoko-panel-mainmenu/src/buttonactions.c: openmoko-panel-mainmenu: remove (some) debug output Jun 11 03:28:10 holtmann: do you have all you need now? Jun 11 04:11:08 /image//usr/lib/python2.4/site-packages/dbus/introspect_parser.py", line 1, in ? Jun 11 04:11:09 ImportError: No module named libxml2 Jun 11 04:11:23 This is still strange. So python-xml seems not to be libxml2 based. Jun 11 04:11:28 Can someone build that. Jun 11 04:16:31 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Footer]] [[Media_Player]] [[Toolbar]] [[Talk:Main_Page]] [[Talk:Finger_Toolbar]] [[Supported_microSD_cards]] [[IPhone]] [[Talk:Wishlist:Expansion_Back]] [[Talk:ETel]] [[Guitar_Tuning]] [[Talk:Templates]] [[User_talk:HaraldWelte]] and other changes Jun 11 04:19:11 uhm Jun 11 04:19:21 ok, that needs tweaking our libxml2 build Jun 11 04:19:34 currently it doesn't build the python extension Jun 11 04:21:21 neither python-xml nor python-pyxml is build on libxml2 btw. Jun 11 04:21:31 looks like we have too many xml libs arond... Jun 11 04:22:11 Actually only libxml2 should be needed at all. Even for BlueZ, we don't use expat if GLib is available. Jun 11 04:23:05 Can we build a python-dbus with expat support? Jun 11 04:25:21 might be possible Jun 11 04:25:27 know the config options offhand? Jun 11 04:29:30 No? Never compiled that by myself. Jun 11 04:31:31 hmm can't find any sign of expat in 0.71 Jun 11 04:31:39 then again, 0.81.1 is current Jun 11 04:33:31 urhm Jun 11 04:33:31 ok Jun 11 04:33:37 expat came in dbus in v. 08 Jun 11 04:33:48 let me see whether i can add 0.81.1 quickly Jun 11 04:36:20 bbiab, lunch time Jun 11 05:42:59 hey everyone, i wrote a python extension..its getting built and all...but when i try to import it, its telling me that the module couldnt be found...the ipk has been created although i dont find my modules getting installed properly..anyone know whatsup? Jun 11 05:52:25 ~lart python extensions using autotools Jun 11 05:52:25 * apt brandishes Excalibur! "With this sword, I vanquish thee, python extensions using autotools!" and lops off python extensions using autotools's head Jun 11 05:52:47 holtmann: try 0.81.1 which is now in the same directory Jun 11 05:52:57 that one should be using expat Jun 11 05:53:01 Sup3rkiddo: Do the extension work if you do it manually? Is it only the installation that fails? Jun 11 05:54:03 sannes, only the installation...works if i do it manually on my machine with "python setup.py install" Jun 11 05:55:15 Sup3rkiddo: ah, well I havn't done any ipkg python module installation so I can't help you with that .. heh Jun 11 05:55:22 openmoko: 03mickey * r2214 10/trunk/oe/packages/python/ (. allow-older-autotools.patch python-dbus_0.81.1.bb): Jun 11 05:55:22 openmoko: oe/python-dbus: add 0.81.1 as per Marcel Hotmanns request Jun 11 05:55:22 openmoko: NOTE: ~lart python extensions switching from distutils to autotools Jun 11 05:56:17 sannes, ah well... Jun 11 05:57:05 Sup3rkiddo: attach your bb to the bugtracker and I'll have a look at some point of time Jun 11 05:57:36 mickey|fic, sure..thanks...but normally inherit distutils is all you need...isnt it Jun 11 05:58:37 yep Jun 11 05:58:44 at least that works for quite a lot of exts Jun 11 05:59:26 weird... Jun 11 06:03:52 morning Jun 11 06:08:58 * * OM Bug 602 has been created by sudharsh@gmail.com Jun 11 06:08:59 * * Python extensions not getting installed Jun 11 06:09:00 * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=602 Jun 11 06:17:30 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Wishlist:Expansion_Back]] [[Talk:Debug_Board_v1]] [[Calendar]] [[Neo1973_Power_Management]] [[Footer]] [[Media_Player]] [[Toolbar]] [[Talk:Main_Page]] Jun 11 06:29:38 good morning Jun 11 06:31:18 Morning Jun 11 06:45:16 * Rince is innocent Jun 11 06:46:15 for the keyboard: I am used to have touch-keyboards like the Tungsten T5 one and from Sony Ericsson the one for the P990i Jun 11 06:46:25 not to mention the Nokia 77 one; so I am used to such keyboards Jun 11 07:05:16 This python-dbus dependencies are so ugly. Jun 11 07:05:34 File "/usr/lib/python2.4/logging/__init__.py", line 29, in ? Jun 11 07:05:34 import sys, os, types, time, string, cStringIO, traceback Jun 11 07:05:34 ImportError: No module named cStringIO Jun 11 07:06:35 holtmann: python-io Jun 11 07:09:34 Finally. After another two packages, I have the Python D-Bus working. Jun 11 07:10:39 holtmann: cool. please send me a list of all deps, so i can add the appropriate RDEPENDS to the package Jun 11 07:12:35 python-threading python-io python-stringold python-logging Jun 11 07:12:38 thanks Jun 11 07:12:57 However that python-dbus depends on dbus-dev is wrong. It pulls into libc6-dev. That is bad. Jun 11 07:13:09 Only python-dbus-dev should depend on dbus-dev. Jun 11 07:13:14 sure thin Jun 11 07:13:15 g Jun 11 07:13:22 And I might missing some dependencies. Jun 11 07:13:39 python-lang python-re Jun 11 07:13:49 Are also needed, but dragged in by other python-* packages. Jun 11 07:14:24 Maybe. At least I think. Jun 11 07:21:54 oh Jun 11 07:21:59 mickey @ fic? Jun 11 07:22:00 interesting Jun 11 07:36:24 ya. working in Taipei atm. Jun 11 07:43:44 holtmann, ping Jun 11 07:58:04 ossman: Hey. What's up. Jun 11 07:58:46 well it's monday, so mostly down ;) Jun 11 07:59:10 I just wanted to tell you that the SDIO stuff is finally on track, in case you're still interested Jun 11 08:02:51 heya Jun 11 08:11:20 ossman: Sounds great. I was talking to Intel about and we need it. Especially interfacing also the Bluetooth chips over SDIO might make sense in the future. Jun 11 08:11:30 Do you have a public git tree for testing? Jun 11 08:12:32 yup, http://git.kernel.org/?p=linux/kernel/git/drzeus/mmc.git;a=summary Jun 11 08:12:48 I do not keep a clean history at this point though, so use with care Jun 11 08:14:01 hi all Jun 11 08:14:25 Do you have a skeleton driver. I might start with the Bluetooth SDIO driver soon. Just finished cleaning the Bluetooth USB driver. Jun 11 08:15:10 not yet, no. the driver matching is still missing Jun 11 08:15:27 also, I don't have any hw with specs, so rev.eng. the cards is eating a lot of time :/ Jun 11 08:15:53 but nicolas pitre has written some CIS parsing, so driver matching should be close by Jun 11 08:16:40 interrupts are also still missing Jun 11 08:18:57 I have the Bluetooth cards with documentation. So that should be easy. Jun 11 08:19:52 openmoko: 03mickey * r2215 10/trunk/oe/packages/python/ (4 files in 2 dirs): oe/python-dbus: add some RDEPENDS Jun 11 08:21:01 BT USB.. I have to check my logitech hid bt dongle one day again Jun 11 08:21:44 doesnt gsmd run in qemu? Jun 11 08:29:17 openmoko: 03mickey * r2216 10/trunk/oe/packages/openmoko-base/ (3 files in 2 dirs): oe/openmoko-sound-system: set alsa fragment_size and use trivial resampling method Jun 11 08:47:07 nix: who are you and why are u using my acocunt? Jun 11 08:47:07 Nix-: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) Jun 11 08:53:22 Do we have a DHCP client in one of the packages. Jun 11 08:53:49 holtmann: udhcpc -i Jun 11 08:54:03 should be installed by default (being part of busybox) Jun 11 08:55:20 Nix-: use /msg nickserv ghost Jun 11 08:55:39 yes. I know.. Jun 11 08:56:00 This guy is really annoying me though Jun 11 08:56:19 ok. I have both gcc-4.x and 3.4.6 installed on my system. would there be a way to specify using 3.4.6 for the mokomakefile ? Jun 11 08:56:40 sxpert-work: Gentoo? Jun 11 08:56:50 * Nix wishes that nickkill was turned on :-( Jun 11 08:57:05 CM: yes Jun 11 08:57:47 sxpert-work: I'm in the same situation. Needed 3.x for qemu. Shouldn't just using gcc-config work? Jun 11 08:57:53 And then source the profile again Jun 11 08:58:18 CM: using gcc-config modifies the compiler for the entire system. that's bork Jun 11 08:58:36 as gcc4 has much better c++ support Jun 11 08:58:52 qemu should probably be fixed instead Jun 11 08:58:53 Sure, but just turn it on while compiling with the makefile Jun 11 08:59:00 Definitely.. Jun 11 08:59:28 root@fic-gta01:~$ avahi-autoipd bnep0 Jun 11 08:59:29 socket() failed: Address family not supported by protocol Jun 11 08:59:40 This is bad. No idea why. Maybe our avahi packages are too old. Jun 11 08:59:51 af_packet? Jun 11 09:00:19 No idea? Jun 11 09:00:47 kernel hackers like to make that a module, while it is needed for virtually everything Jun 11 09:00:53 CM: switching to 3.4.6 requires recompiling monotone Jun 11 09:00:54 and since harald is a kernel hacker.... Jun 11 09:01:08 sxpert-work: Argh.. Jun 11 09:01:24 sxpert-work nobody suggested switching gcc. just add 3.4 additionally to your system Jun 11 09:01:41 roh: yes, but it still can't find it, apparently Jun 11 09:01:57 the buildsys of qemu will take 3.x by choise, if installed correctly Jun 11 09:02:06 eh choice Jun 11 09:02:14 http://rafb.net/p/DgmCFP96.html Jun 11 09:02:23 sxpert-work eh.. does your gcc also respond to gcc32? Jun 11 09:02:26 just wondering doesnt the gsmd daemon run in the qemu build..i tried running the libgsmd-tool sample app, but exits complaining that it couldn connect to gsmd...or do i need a device to test libgsmd out? Jun 11 09:02:44 sxpert-work: What distro is it? Jun 11 09:02:46 sxpert-work, using gentoo? Jun 11 09:02:49 yes Jun 11 09:02:52 *sigh* Jun 11 09:03:02 sxpert-work, use gcc-config to switch the compiler Jun 11 09:03:10 I have "gcc", "gcc-3.4.6", "gcc-4.1.2" Jun 11 09:03:27 Sup3rkiddo: no, that would force me to recompile monotone too. Jun 11 09:03:31 this is b0rk Jun 11 09:03:51 sxpert-work, i had to do that btw.. Jun 11 09:03:59 there has to be a way to tell the stupid qemu makefile to search for gcc-3.4.6 or somethign Jun 11 09:04:13 gcc3_list="gcc-3.4 gcc34 gcc-3.3 gcc33 gcc-3.2 gcc32" Jun 11 09:04:22 thats the names it tries. Jun 11 09:04:22 I probably will later today as well. Jun 11 09:05:11 gentoo seems to name its gcc out of default Jun 11 09:05:22 roh: Ah, should do an ln -s gcc-3.4.6 gcc-3.4 then Jun 11 09:05:29 sxpert-work, try changing the gcc4 symlink to gcc3 just for a while Jun 11 09:05:36 roh: except on gentoo I think gcc32 is the 32-bit version of a different gcc version :-) Jun 11 09:05:44 ok. added a link from 'gcc-3.4.6' to 'gcc-3.4', which worked Jun 11 09:06:03 rwhitby even worse ;) Jun 11 09:06:21 monotone will probably still needed to be compiled with that version of gcc too to get it to link properly. Jun 11 09:06:25 but of course, it stopped working after a while; this thing doesn't appear to be 64 bit friendly Jun 11 09:06:33 sxpert-work eventually you will need to do that for more binaryanames Jun 11 09:06:42 koen: Thanks. Just putting the bits and pieces together. Jun 11 09:06:59 http://rafb.net/p/FqeC5H10.html Jun 11 09:07:07 64-bit gentoo seems to be the anathema of most build systems :-) Jun 11 09:07:18 * CM sighs and agrees Jun 11 09:07:30 Can someone also build bridge-utils. Jun 11 09:07:43 And the bridge kernel module :) Jun 11 09:07:45 rwhitby: more like "64 bit gentoo is a good test to ferret out b0rk build systems" :D Jun 11 09:07:53 holtmann: I've had enough boards that were useless since af-packet was a module and needed a network to install ... Jun 11 09:08:08 sxpert-work: I think we need a vmware image with a complete buildsystem in Jun 11 09:08:11 sxpert-work: that too - depends if you want to get something done, or fight with build systems :-) Jun 11 09:08:31 64bit gentoo on a bigendian system Jun 11 09:08:32 can anyone please take a look at bug #602, and tell me whatsup...need to get some sleep once its fixed Jun 11 09:09:06 CM: vmware is evil proprietary crap. don't want to touch that thing with a 10 foot pole Jun 11 09:09:21 koen: Do you know if that is fixed with the OpenMoko kernel or do I have to install a kernel package? Jun 11 09:09:39 sxpert-work: Well, xen then. :) Jun 11 09:10:01 * Stephmw hails proprietary crap! Without it FOSS would never have gotten where it is today... Jun 11 09:10:14 CONFIG_PACKET=m Jun 11 09:10:28 holtmann: looks like you need to install extra modules :( Jun 11 09:12:00 Crap. This is bad. Jun 11 09:14:19 sxpert-work: vmware's a good product. if you want an open alternative, qemu also works (IIRC it even supports vmware images) Jun 11 09:14:57 * rwhitby does all his open source development under vmware, and enjoys the irony of it. Jun 11 09:15:14 It is a good product Jun 11 09:15:46 but I wouldn't suggest packaging the openmoko build system in vmware, cause that would force my choice on others which is not what freedom is all about. Jun 11 09:16:55 bluelightning_: that requires compiling it first :D Jun 11 09:17:19 sxpert-work: there are binaries available for windows ;-) Jun 11 09:18:19 rwhitby: a live CD image would be another possibility... you could use that from any vm system or even on a real box Jun 11 09:18:44 yeah, a debian or ubuntu live cd would probably be best Jun 11 09:20:03 rwhitby: yeah, riiiight ! Jun 11 09:22:44 morning all Jun 11 09:24:27 imho, fixing qemu would probably be more useful Jun 11 09:25:11 does qemu run on non-x86 hosts? Jun 11 09:25:26 rwitby, yes Jun 11 09:25:34 does qemu *requires* x86 ? Jun 11 09:25:42 32 bits that is ? Jun 11 09:25:45 http://fabrice.bellard.free.fr/qemu/status.html Jun 11 09:25:54 in which case, I'm losing my time here Jun 11 09:26:25 ok. I'm losing my time according to this chart Jun 11 09:26:35 No.. Why? Jun 11 09:26:47 * rwhitby ponders running qemu on an nslu2 to simulate a neo1973 :-) Jun 11 09:27:02 CM: well, that thing doesn't compile, period. Jun 11 09:27:36 sxpert-work: Yes, failed for me too. Jun 11 09:27:38 sxpert, on which architecture? Jun 11 09:27:48 gentoo-x86-64 Jun 11 09:27:56 rwhitby: it does Jun 11 09:28:09 rwhitby: I use qemu on x86-64, people use it on ppc Jun 11 09:28:46 mebbe on debian or something, but it doesn't work on other distributions, hence it is b0rk Jun 11 09:29:10 debian has qemu packages for amd64 i386 and ppc Jun 11 09:29:35 see, there you go. forcing people into using distros they don't want to use Jun 11 09:30:18 huh? if it builds on debian, it should also be possible to compile it on gentoo Jun 11 09:30:45 debian may have some compatibility patches... Jun 11 09:31:04 I think it's the combination of 64-bit and gcc-4.x that is messing things up Jun 11 09:31:16 gentoo is a multiverse of distros, all compiled slightly differently :-) Jun 11 09:33:20 sxpert-work: it is being developed on a x86_64 gentoo Jun 11 09:33:57 counter Jun 11 09:33:57 http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 45%) P1: 4 days 01:12:59 (4.051±4.1 days) (1435;229) Jun 11 09:34:29 * CM gives up on compiling for qemu too Jun 11 09:40:03 buz: looks like e28 didn't release the e2881 yet :P Jun 11 09:43:58 So is there an easy way to get AF_PACKET support without building a new kernel. Jun 11 09:45:22 "ipkg install kernel-module-af-packet" probably Jun 11 09:54:52 So why is kernel-module-af-packet not installed with the default devel image? Jun 11 09:55:16 * koen blames crazy kernel people Jun 11 09:56:29 * balrog-kun gave up on stock kernels and modules some time ago Jun 11 09:57:45 for me though it had more networking stuff enabled than i needed Jun 11 09:59:19 holtmann: basically do "ipkg install kernel-modules" to get all of them. I do not know why openmoko guys configured kernel that way Jun 11 09:59:50 * koen fixed it in angstrom Jun 11 10:00:41 hrw: the problem I had a few months ago was a rootfs without af-packet, ide-cs and mmc-block driver Jun 11 10:16:31 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[User:Pander]] Jun 11 10:34:29 aloril: counter Jun 11 10:34:29 http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 45%) P1: 4 days 00:42:43 (4.030±4.0 days) (1436;229) Jun 11 12:23:21 re Jun 11 12:41:56 is there any news about the availability of the moko? Jun 11 12:57:07 counter Jun 11 12:57:08 http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 45%) P1: 3 days 23:31:24 (3.980±4.0 days) (1437;229) Jun 11 12:57:42 fledermaus: haven't heard any Jun 11 13:10:36 Is there any ML I can subscribe to for announce about preorder and order? Jun 11 13:14:12 daxxar: yes, the annoncement mailing list Jun 11 13:46:51 counter Jun 11 13:46:51 http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 45%) P1: 3 days 23:06:32 (3.963±4.0 days) (1438;229) Jun 11 13:48:58 They's better say it will be released in september, and come with a release in a week. ;) Jun 11 14:17:04 hehe, actually there is *no* date at all Jun 11 14:17:30 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[FOSDEM_2007]] Jun 11 15:00:56 counter Jun 11 15:00:56 http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 45%) P1: 3 days 22:29:30 (3.937±3.9 days) (1439;229) Jun 11 15:28:04 http://news.yahoo.com/s/infoworld/20070611/tc_infoworld/89251 Jun 11 15:28:09 looks promising Jun 11 15:40:23 Is that related to this project? Jun 11 15:43:50 Tronic: hum well... not directly, but it should maybe ;) Jun 11 15:45:05 At least they chose GTK :) Jun 11 15:45:18 I don't like Qt's license options. Jun 11 15:55:01 hi Jun 11 15:55:36 ho Jun 11 15:58:22 who are you calling a ho? Jun 11 15:58:53 Hi CoreDump and mickey|fic :) Jun 11 16:01:25 hi all Jun 11 16:01:33 can you already buy openmoko in europe ? Jun 11 16:01:34 sleon: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) Jun 11 16:01:43 No. Jun 11 16:01:51 Nor anywhere. Jun 11 16:02:11 SpeedEvil: do you know when it would be possible ? Jun 11 16:02:23 No. Jun 11 16:02:32 I would guess it's a couple of weeks out at least. Jun 11 16:04:03 Is there a waiting list for orders for the neo? Jun 11 16:04:07 No. Jun 11 16:04:12 * sleon i wanna have it :)) Jun 11 16:04:34 everyone does *sigh* Jun 11 16:04:49 There is http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Buying_Interest_List Jun 11 16:04:53 but... Jun 11 16:06:18 ive actually stopping thinking about openmoko as a hardware project. Jun 11 16:06:33 i ran the emulator last night. found out my laptop is too slow to run it. :( Jun 11 16:06:42 ouch Jun 11 16:06:53 so i just think of openmoko as a software project (which it is of course) Jun 11 16:07:08 happycube: 800mhz apparently doesnt cut it. Jun 11 16:07:20 don-o - Yeah. Rince (I think, he has a fast laptop) told me, that the P0 is even faster than the enulation... which is... hum. Jun 11 16:07:20 nod* Jun 11 16:07:49 Qemu has a big slowdown. Jun 11 16:08:57 It'll be interesting to see if the initial run produced is going to be sufficient to meet demand. Currently just over 300 folks have expressed interest, but I'd guess that # will go up quickly when the release is announced. Jun 11 16:09:06 Hmmm.... http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Category:Neo1973_Hardware#Bluetooth says, that the BT module is class 2. Class2 is 60m or so, right? Jun 11 16:09:12 no Jun 11 16:09:19 class 2 is the short range one. Jun 11 16:09:21 10m Jun 11 16:09:38 Hmm. Jun 11 16:09:51 as long as I get inttahweb from my couch Jun 11 16:09:54 In my test, the Neo could not connect to a nokia at 5m. Jun 11 16:10:05 :/ Jun 11 16:10:44 s/nokia/nokia and other smartphone thingy Jun 11 16:10:57 We had to put them next to each other to play a little with BT. Jun 11 16:11:45 alUrdun: it will be interesting. im #97 on the list although i dont know if that makes a difference. Jun 11 16:11:47 wifi will be great :) Jun 11 16:12:21 the accelerometers will be fun. Jun 11 16:12:30 I have wifi on my current handset, and I love it. The coolest part is being able to pull it out and kill off a couple of RSS feeds whenever I have a spare moment. Jun 11 16:12:32 accelerometers? Jun 11 16:13:01 fledermaus: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2007-June/005512.html Jun 11 16:13:29 Is anyone here interested in mentoring a complete n00b who's interested in getting involved in the project? Jun 11 16:13:45 SpeedEvil - While you're here: (I'm considering to put up a wishlist entry) What's a nice english polite term for "low budet". (I don't need wifi or acceloremeters, or 3d games). Jun 11 16:14:00 i truly look forward to that moment i could do some lightsaber sounds with my neo Jun 11 16:14:09 cheesy: ha. Jun 11 16:14:10 what's wrong with "low budget"? Jun 11 16:15:07 mjr - I'm not a native english speaker. So I don't know, if it's a good term. Jun 11 16:15:58 low bidet Jun 11 16:16:15 I see. Well, me neither, but I don't see anything wrong in wishing for a "low budget" version Jun 11 16:16:31 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Buying_Interest_List]] Jun 11 16:16:39 the "low" is surplus to requirements. You can just say "budget" Jun 11 16:17:37 Yeah, that's okay too Jun 11 16:17:39 koen - *giggle* Jun 11 16:17:40 <_llll_> hmm, i'd prefer "low bugdet" to just "budget" Jun 11 16:18:00 <_llll_> a budget is just how much money you have available Jun 11 16:18:12 I am well aware of the meaning of the word. Jun 11 16:18:20 hi all Jun 11 16:18:32 Hi ninHer Jun 11 16:18:37 however in the context in which it is being used, a native speaker would expect to see the word budget used on its own as a modifier. Jun 11 16:18:44 hi Elrond Jun 11 16:18:54 <_llll_> this native speaker would not Jun 11 16:19:06 <_llll_> i would probably understand it tho Jun 11 16:19:22 "non bloated" ;o) Jun 11 16:19:39 Budget as a merketing term has a connotation of 'low budget'. As in 'Buy this if you're on a budget.' Jun 11 16:19:43 budget airlines. budget car rentals. suitable for a customer on a budget. Jun 11 16:21:09 Hmm, the connotation I'm looking for is "less features, but still high qiality". Jun 11 16:21:25 s/qiality/quality Jun 11 16:21:37 Economy version - is an option. Jun 11 16:21:48 Or 'less fully featured'. Jun 11 16:22:11 Neo DX and Neo SX :) Jun 11 16:22:29 *G* :-) Jun 11 16:22:38 I'd like a version with a 128*160 or so b/w display, BT only, accel, no GPS, GSM Jun 11 16:23:04 And keypad and track-point not touchscreen. Jun 11 16:23:09 SpeedEvil - usb for charging? Jun 11 16:23:16 Yeah. Jun 11 16:23:56 ok after waiting so long everybody should get a costumized version Jun 11 16:24:04 Yeah, something like this is also closer to what I might buy. :) Jun 11 16:24:18 cheesy - *G* Like D*ll ? ;o) Jun 11 16:24:46 inexpensive is also a commonly used term. Jun 11 16:24:59 SpeedEvil - Ahh. :) Jun 11 16:25:29 Elrond: you are confusing me with * and || ;) Jun 11 16:25:59 cheesy - [X] BT [X] USB (X) 240x320 ( ) 480x640 [ ] wifi Jun 11 16:26:01 ;o) Jun 11 16:26:06 hehe Jun 11 16:26:21 :D Jun 11 16:26:32 The hardware doesn't so much matter to me. What matters to me is being able to get a terminal on my phone. Jun 11 16:26:48 alUrdun: like you can with a Treo? :) Jun 11 16:27:32 slider - I tried to use the Terminal and the openmoko-keyboard (on screen) in the train. It took me 1/4 eternity to get BT up. ;o) Jun 11 16:27:37 * mwester would just like to see a version in a different case; one that didn't look so much like a pool floaty toy Jun 11 16:28:14 mwester - *lol* My mum said, that it looks like some soap. ;o)) Jun 11 16:28:34 * cheesy thinks it doesnt look that bad in reality Jun 11 16:28:54 * CoreDump|afk actually likes the design Jun 11 16:28:57 * Sup3rkiddo got the same reaction with his ngage qd Jun 11 16:28:58 cheesy - Yeah, I like it quite from a design point of view. Jun 11 16:29:34 cheesy - But my Siemens ME45 is really better for writing SMS ;o) Jun 11 16:30:37 Elrond: i would really like to have a little qwerty behind that display Jun 11 16:31:04 talking about terminal with no keyboard Jun 11 16:31:37 so you can slide it out Jun 11 16:31:47 mickey|fic - If I would like to see something on buildhost as ipk, should I just file a wishlist bug? Jun 11 16:32:29 maybe i should photoshop something like that and everyone gets hot about it and fic will build it ;) Jun 11 16:32:58 Hi LaF0rge :) Jun 11 16:33:19 hi Elrond Jun 11 16:33:35 hi cbrake Jun 11 16:33:40 cheesy: hello Jun 11 16:34:09 cheesy - (I meant "dell" with the * thingy) Jun 11 16:34:53 Elrond: yeah Jun 11 16:35:02 So when the Neo1973 comes out I can simply pop my Cingular SIM card into it and begin using it? Or will it require some sort of cooperation with them? Jun 11 16:35:03 Consty: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) Jun 11 16:35:15 Consty: if it's GSM, it should work Jun 11 16:35:21 s/GSM/GSM SIM card/ Jun 11 16:35:22 mickey|fic meant: Consty: if it's GSM SIM card, it should work Jun 11 16:35:23 you just dont wanted to name a big company? Jun 11 16:35:39 no Jun 11 16:35:40 cheesy - Right. Jun 11 16:35:51 none are involved ATM Jun 11 16:35:57 How can I tell if it's a GSM Sim card? Jun 11 16:36:13 from the advertising material Jun 11 16:36:36 i don't know whether cingular operates gsm or cdma networks Jun 11 16:36:56 LaF0rge - JFI: I tried http://people.openmoko.org/laforge/tmp/neo1973_ethernet.inf on windows xp. I even fixed up the USB-IDs. But it still error'd out. At least it started charging after the half-broken install. ;-) Jun 11 16:36:59 Elrond: finally i got it Jun 11 16:37:11 I did not know cdma och gsm have different sim cards. Jun 11 16:59:10 Most CDMA carriers don't use SIM cards. Jun 11 17:04:13 Sup all? Jun 11 17:04:13 BeastlyKings: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) Jun 11 17:06:02 (script) openmoko-community: Sean Moss-Pultz Re: Concern for usability and ergonomics Jun 11 17:06:02 (script) openmoko-neo1973: Sean Moss-Pultz Re: Concern for usability and ergonomics Jun 11 17:09:04 <-- heading home. Jun 11 17:19:30 hola. when can I buy an openmoko and leave phone misery behind? Jun 11 17:19:31 tknudsen: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) Jun 11 17:20:44 counter? Jun 11 17:20:44 "/msg aloril counter?" for actual long message, giving short version here: http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 45%) P1: 3 days 21:19:36 (3.889±3.9 days) (1439;227) Jun 11 17:23:22 counter_msg http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 40%) Jun 11 17:23:22 aloril changed counter prefix message to http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 40%) Jun 11 17:31:25 * SpeedEvil sighs. Jun 11 17:31:40 * SpeedEvil had hopes that the wikiandal had gone away. Jun 11 17:32:58 ? Jun 11 17:37:20 Wiki Vandalism. Jun 11 17:37:42 oic. Jun 11 17:38:50 ~50 spam edits in the last day Jun 11 17:39:14 I saw those. What does he change? Jun 11 17:39:58 hundreds of links Jun 11 17:40:05 free viagra, cialis, ... Jun 11 17:40:36 time for invitation-only users on the wiki Jun 11 17:40:53 The right solution is the anti-spam plugin for mediawiki. Jun 11 17:41:18 But it has dependancies that the wiki server can't have with the current policy. Jun 11 17:41:23 there should be one person delegated to blocking uncooperative users and doing not much more on the wiki Jun 11 17:41:34 i'm sure there will be plenty of volunteers to do that Jun 11 17:41:51 Me and one other largely it seems. Jun 11 17:42:04 I've got a little script that barks when there is an edit. Jun 11 17:42:25 yeah, but instead of reverting the the edits indefinitely, just blocking the authors Jun 11 17:42:36 that requires admin access though Jun 11 17:42:40 The authors simply make new accounts Jun 11 17:42:48 they aren't reusing them Jun 11 17:43:08 aham.. Jun 11 18:00:45 buz: are ya there? Jun 11 18:00:51 yes Jun 11 18:01:07 aiming cruise missiles at a certain computer maker Jun 11 18:02:36 why Jun 11 18:02:47 heard from e28? *EG* Jun 11 18:03:19 buz: I know something about it Jun 11 18:03:36 shoot ;) Jun 11 18:03:43 i'm all ears Jun 11 18:03:45 looks like e2881 won't be out until Q3 Jun 11 18:04:29 well not much difference to GTA02 then ;) Jun 11 18:04:34 heheh Jun 11 18:04:42 found anything about the os? Jun 11 18:04:44 it was on their timeline for some time Jun 11 18:05:14 buz: not really, I guess I should look at e2831's OS Jun 11 18:05:22 got one? Jun 11 18:05:34 no, but that's one that's already released XD Jun 11 18:05:50 well i somehow doubt you will get the os without the phone Jun 11 18:06:26 well, I should first look at some user reviews Jun 11 18:07:19 you mean people actually buy those? Jun 11 18:07:29 I don't know Jun 11 18:07:35 somehow, i doubt t Jun 11 18:07:46 that would require e28 to actually answer to inquiries Jun 11 18:08:13 well, it's a GSM/GPRS phone with cam and wifi Jun 11 18:08:37 (and bluetooth) Jun 11 18:09:09 its also omap Jun 11 18:09:11 all I want is to use my phone as a network interface. I would spend $350 for that. Jun 11 18:09:34 make sure to wait until wifi isa vailable then, tknudsen Jun 11 18:09:39 and, so would i ;) Jun 11 18:09:50 e2831 can do that... Jun 11 18:09:56 no, not wifi, that's insecure. I want a wire. Jun 11 18:10:03 * LuitvD is still waiting for the e2882 Jun 11 18:10:18 you know somehing i dont? Jun 11 18:10:23 buz: you thought the e2881 would be nice... the e2882 will be wonderful Jun 11 18:10:37 any info on that one? Jun 11 18:10:41 like uhm vga screen? Jun 11 18:10:50 buz: nah, some other nice specs :) Jun 11 18:10:58 don't know about the screen Jun 11 18:11:11 it's qvga Jun 11 18:11:23 got an url? Jun 11 18:11:29 hold on Jun 11 18:11:32 it's on the portfolio Jun 11 18:11:37 http://www.e28.com/e28mobile/mobile_protfolio.htm Jun 11 18:11:52 is e28 different than openmoko? Jun 11 18:11:59 yes Jun 11 18:12:03 tho we dont really know what it is ;) Jun 11 18:12:05 how so? Jun 11 18:12:15 2,8" LCD and keypad, 3G and WiMAX, GPS :) Jun 11 18:12:52 what use is a Q3 2008 device Jun 11 18:12:58 will phones no longer suck? please leave that memo on my grave. Jun 11 18:12:59 meh Jun 11 18:13:05 that's the bad part Jun 11 18:13:13 what about seans post from today Jun 11 18:13:14 What is the price of the e2881? Jun 11 18:13:19 about those mysterious other devices Jun 11 18:13:29 DukeOfURL: nobody knows, e28 wont respond to email Jun 11 18:13:48 bluesky? Jun 11 18:13:54 not entirely Jun 11 18:14:00 e28 did ship phones in the past Jun 11 18:14:07 * balrog-kun imagines devices similar to those that SAS developed for James Bond Jun 11 18:14:21 perhaps a pen that explodes, etc Jun 11 18:14:29 * buz wonders if he should bet 1150usd on thinkpad quality Jun 11 18:14:58 is the e28 open source? Jun 11 18:15:05 i doubt it Jun 11 18:15:10 tknudsen: they should be ... Jun 11 18:15:19 LuitvD: a lot of devices should be Jun 11 18:15:39 i read somewhere that it was based on the motorola kernel, so i guess it's not. Jun 11 18:15:45 I'd rather spend my $350 to solve the long term problem Jun 11 18:15:58 buz: well, even motorola releases kernel patches Jun 11 18:16:11 motorola STILL didnt release a wifi phone Jun 11 18:16:15 they're a hopeless case Jun 11 18:16:37 if motorola went bankrupt tomorrow i sure wouldnt care Jun 11 18:16:50 yeah, well, the RAZR2 looks nice Jun 11 18:17:00 the HSDPA version that is Jun 11 18:17:21 HSDPA - so you can get broke even faster Jun 11 18:17:48 yeah :) Jun 11 18:18:02 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Hardware:AGPS]] [[OpenMoko:Community_Portal]] [[Main_Page/ru]] [[Talk:Buying_Interest_List]] [[Wish_List_UserProfile_Geek]] [[Talk:Development_resources]] [[Talk:Main_Page/zh_cn]] [[Talk:Look_%26_Feel]] Jun 11 18:18:02 unlimited traffic plan ;) Jun 11 18:18:55 at the moment there is only one open source/free software phone and its not yet generally available (Neo1973) Jun 11 18:19:13 that's not strictly true Jun 11 18:19:26 htc universal can run a fully open stack from what i understand Jun 11 18:19:57 (but that only barely qualifies as phone, i admit) Jun 11 18:19:57 and more EZX based motorola phones can run a 2,6 kernel Jun 11 18:20:03 buz: you can make/receive calls with it? Jun 11 18:20:13 aloril2: not entirely sure about that Jun 11 18:20:27 lemme check Jun 11 18:20:39 How free is greenphone btw nowadays? I have the impression that the Qtopia stack was changed to proprietary+GPL licensing at least... Not that I'm as excited about that particular project anyways. Jun 11 18:21:04 mjr: a full sdk is 800 bucks Jun 11 18:21:36 counter Jun 11 18:21:37 http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 40%) P1: 3 days 20:49:10 (3.867±3.9 days) (1440;227) Jun 11 18:21:49 man - this counter is moving closer to the never point. Jun 11 18:21:52 GSM/GPRS/UMTS is tested and works Jun 11 18:22:23 LuitvD, http://trolltech.com/products/qtopia/greenphone/greenphone_pricing "Greenphone Community SDK" says that $695 for the device, no licensing costs (under GPL v2.0) Jun 11 18:22:25 * buz cant understand why the trolls didnt add wifi to that one Jun 11 18:22:47 mjr: i think qtopia phone itself is not gpl Jun 11 18:22:53 mjr: but that's just the community SDK Jun 11 18:22:54 only plain qtopia Jun 11 18:22:54 3rd party development for iPhone will be web-based apps only. Jun 11 18:23:00 Just announced. Jun 11 18:23:09 lol Jun 11 18:23:10 buz, I see. Jun 11 18:23:11 Weak. Jun 11 18:23:22 so before, they blocked web apps in the browser? Jun 11 18:23:23 we can add that to openmoko! Jun 11 18:23:29 buz: because they didn't build the hardware (trolltech) Jun 11 18:23:41 LuitvD, well, I'm basically trying to find out what isn't in the Community SDK, 'cause if it's just the permission to create proprietary apps, that wouldn't be a big deal... Jun 11 18:23:49 mjr: not sure, but I think calling part ('gpsd') is closed in greenphone Jun 11 18:23:56 zecke: even you source phones from odm, you can generally get features Jun 11 18:23:58 gsmd? Jun 11 18:24:10 http://www.handhelds.org/moin/moin.cgi/Universal Jun 11 18:24:16 sounds like universal is the first fully open phone Jun 11 18:24:21 aloril2, right Jun 11 18:24:24 buz: well it is a phone as sold in China with a green case Jun 11 18:24:34 also isnt iphone 'only' 480x272? Jun 11 18:24:47 you mean they force people to use the reportedly very crashy thing? Jun 11 18:24:56 heck it says dont use this as phone upon boot Jun 11 18:24:57 how come no shopping cart for the dev phone? Jun 11 18:25:09 goddammit, every current device is useless for my needs Jun 11 18:25:27 openmoko could sell a lot of dev phones if there was a shopping cart!! Jun 11 18:25:29 buz: htc magician is at about the same level as htc universal. I can make and receive calls with openmoko-dialer as long as it doesn't segfault. Jun 11 18:25:39 :-) Jun 11 18:26:02 EDGE is useless here :( Jun 11 18:26:14 h5400 can also make and receive calls under linux afaik Jun 11 18:26:23 gg virgin edge Jun 11 18:26:24 oops Jun 11 18:26:25 how about tytn? Jun 11 18:26:25 unfortunately we don't boot either of them from mtd yet. Jun 11 18:26:39 Apple's iPhone is going to use AJAX 'applications'... Doable here? Jun 11 18:26:50 tytn is needs more work, I think the flash and sd-on-ati-chip are major hurdles. Jun 11 18:26:56 mhh magician is 500EUR without contract here Jun 11 18:27:13 oy, that's way too much. Jun 11 18:27:17 ati? NFW that gets near me Jun 11 18:27:31 pH5: did you try to debug gsmd crashes yet? Jun 11 18:27:34 * LuitvD needs UMTS at least... Jun 11 18:27:44 buz: re iPhone -- the Safari they're running will do ajax, etc., so they're trying to emphasize the fact that the web apps it will run will be more impressive than what the average handset will do. Of course, they're glossing over the fact that there will be no true 3rd party apps, which makes it even more closed that Win Mobile. Jun 11 18:28:03 happycube: its calles that way in OpenMoko, no idea what it is called in qtopia+whatever SDK Jun 11 18:28:46 win mobile Jun 11 18:28:53 is in some way less closed than symbian 9 Jun 11 18:28:56 buz: stop swearing Jun 11 18:28:59 zecke: I've never seen gsmd segfault here. though it likes to hang in certain situations. Jun 11 18:29:01 :P Jun 11 18:29:13 but symbian9 beats the living shit out of winmobile Jun 11 18:29:32 N95 has symbian9? Jun 11 18:29:52 buz: At least as a developer with free (thru work) access to Microsoft development tools I can write my own apps for it. Jun 11 18:30:09 Not that I'm defending proprietary platforms, mind you. Jun 11 18:30:27 i think symbian sdk is free for download even Jun 11 18:30:58 Perhaps. An API is not source code, however. Jun 11 18:31:19 hmm, symbian9 is quite nice indeed Jun 11 18:31:23 ok .. wow Jun 11 18:31:33 I can't believe I didn't hear about this until today Jun 11 18:32:08 the mailing list subscription links are borked on the gforge site projects.openmoko.org Jun 11 18:32:40 who is working on what? Jun 11 18:32:41 dennisharrison: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) Jun 11 18:32:45 I'm gonna put out the same question I did a while ago -- anyone wanna be a resource to help a total n00b (me) to get involved in the project? Jun 11 18:32:45 Commands: counter (see estimated time until P1), counter_msg (set message for counter), faq (link to FAQ in wiki) Jun 11 18:33:09 alurdun_, what do you want to do? Jun 11 18:33:23 I am looking for whoever started the asterisk implementation Jun 11 18:33:35 I see it is only in planning right now, and I am sure it will stay that way for a while :) Jun 11 18:33:55 but I have a lot of time/code to add to that project Jun 11 18:34:38 tknudsen: Neo1973 not yet available, hopefully soon (some guesses: Jun 11 18:34:47 counter Jun 11 18:34:47 http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 40%) P1: 3 days 20:42:34 (3.863±3.9 days) (1441;227) Jun 11 18:34:52 ) Jun 11 18:34:57 alurdun_, i am a n00b as well..am writing python bindings for openmoko Jun 11 18:35:03 http://developer.symbian.com/main/tools/sdks/index.jsp Jun 11 18:35:09 symbian SDKs Jun 11 18:35:42 symbian9 is S60 Jun 11 18:35:50 Good evening. Jun 11 18:36:36 evenin' Jun 11 18:36:51 Sup3rkiddo, what functionality are you focusing on for your pybindings? Jun 11 18:37:37 dennisharrison, right now..libgsmd, my team leads into doing some hacks to the runtime Jun 11 18:38:04 *my team lead is into.. Jun 11 18:38:23 Sup3rkiddo, what are you guys hacking on? Jun 11 18:38:37 hi Elrond Jun 11 18:38:54 like, I know libgsmd but what functionality is the goal? Jun 11 18:39:25 I have been developing call center solutions for about a decade Jun 11 18:39:35 and this is a very exciting project to me Jun 11 18:39:43 dennisharrison, you are a demi god then.. Jun 11 18:39:54 Hi pH5! Jun 11 18:40:09 Sup3rkiddo, lol, I wish more people felt that way :) j/k Jun 11 18:40:28 dennisharrison: Thing is, my coding skills are infantile, at best. I'm a DB developer, and have done very little else. I need an easy path to start getting up to speed. Other than that, I'll do the sh!t work -- the project equivalent of digging ditches. Jun 11 18:40:52 alurdun_, what is your interest? I will help you. Jun 11 18:41:32 Sup3rkiddo, you guys have a mailing list ? Jun 11 18:41:44 dennisharrison: What do you work on? Jun 11 18:42:09 dennisharrison, not yet...developement started 2 days ago :)...and team lead is kinda missing in action...he is sick Jun 11 18:42:23 I am going to build on top of the stack at the lowest level I can to help create an asterisk interface api using python and zope Jun 11 18:42:37 dennisharrison, cool.. Jun 11 18:42:50 zope? Jun 11 18:42:52 oh please no Jun 11 18:43:10 lol, you don't like z3 eh? :) Jun 11 18:43:22 the zope will be on the asterisk server and not the phone Jun 11 18:43:32 yeah i kinda figured that ;) Jun 11 18:43:36 lol Jun 11 18:44:04 dennisharrison, maybe this might help http://www.vivekkhurana.com/pymoko/2007/03/19/preparing-for-takeoff/ Jun 11 18:44:31 Sup3rkiddo, thanks, reading now Jun 11 18:44:52 buz, you could use another db if you wanted very easily I am sure Jun 11 18:44:58 but my personal project will be zope Jun 11 18:45:05 if oyu use zope as db only, somethings wrong Jun 11 18:45:20 well thats the point :) Jun 11 18:45:57 our current project is zasterisk (original ... I know ...) Jun 11 18:46:38 its using z3 mostly as a call center tool Jun 11 18:46:51 with an admin interface for asterisk config Jun 11 18:47:23 but the main focus of the project is to give legs to asterisk in a wider world of decentralized solutions Jun 11 18:47:42 the crm aspect is based on the core system in use at rackspace currently Jun 11 18:47:49 in methodology only Jun 11 18:49:33 well asterisk is overkill for me anyhow Jun 11 18:49:35 I want to use these phones as a remote extension of the call center / customer support / sales aspects of a medium to large business Jun 11 18:50:02 WTF Jun 11 18:50:06 safari for windows??? Jun 11 18:50:31 on the plus side, no more need to grab a mac to test sites in safari Jun 11 18:51:08 :) Jun 11 18:51:47 buz: that's what you think Jun 11 18:51:53 buz: what it really means is now you have to test *both* Jun 11 18:51:58 :) Jun 11 18:52:02 point Jun 11 18:52:06 or ignore i Jun 11 18:52:06 t Jun 11 18:52:10 touche Jun 11 18:52:12 because only total masochist will use it Jun 11 18:52:25 Hello! Jun 11 18:54:38 well Jun 11 18:54:40 I mean Jun 11 18:54:45 ok, so yeah, thats windows Jun 11 18:54:52 great Jun 11 18:55:10 guess thats another piece of software on the vm's :) Jun 11 18:55:16 yes Jun 11 18:56:27 dennisharrison: I'm not yet knowledgeable enough to know what I want to do, other than I want to do something. Jun 11 18:57:25 alurdun_, what problems do you see abroad that can be solved with this? And out of those, which are you most passionate about? Jun 11 18:59:12 Sup3rkiddo, well, I would love to talk to you guys about the project Jun 11 18:59:23 Sup3rkiddo, I will stay idle here Jun 11 18:59:47 dennisharrison, hmm...cool..my team lead's name is empty_mind Jun 11 18:59:55 i meant nick Jun 11 19:00:03 understood Jun 11 19:01:05 dennisharrison, its around 1230 mdnight here..so i doubt if he will turn up..can i pm you his email id.. Jun 11 19:01:16 besides he is sick for some time Jun 11 19:01:27 dennisharrison: It may sound trite, but what I'm most passionate about is having open access to the software I use. The reality of my life includes a cell phone, and as a linux user I'm used to having freedom with the software I use daily. Jun 11 19:02:08 Sup3rkiddo, yes please :) Jun 11 19:02:19 is there a list of already available apps for the moko platform? Jun 11 19:02:20 andrer: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) Jun 11 19:02:46 dennisharrison: I also wouldn't mind having a good excuse to learn python. Jun 11 19:02:54 andred_: the 'applications' page on the wiki. Jun 11 19:03:09 Besically, very few completed or semi-working apps. Jun 11 19:06:51 dennisharrison, got it? Jun 11 19:07:08 yep sent an email Jun 11 19:07:20 thanks Sup3rkiddo Jun 11 19:07:46 dennisharrison, no problem...happy to do my part Jun 11 19:08:14 Sup3rkiddo, what are you working on in the project? Jun 11 19:09:13 dennisharrison, more like working and learning on the go...my goal is to create bindings for openmoko...am starting with libgsmd and hopefully do some gui stuff later on Jun 11 19:10:02 yeah well we have a gtk guy in house Jun 11 19:10:08 so he can help with that for sure Jun 11 19:10:18 I mean .. obviously he does more then just gtk :) Jun 11 19:10:23 but ... its something else he is very good at Jun 11 19:10:34 dennisharrison, :D, cant wait.. Jun 11 19:11:52 dennisharrison, the real problem i am facing now is this weird bug, where my extesnions arent getting installed...pretty much stuck there Jun 11 19:12:42 Sup3rkiddo, what is the install method? Jun 11 19:12:58 Sup3rkiddo, I have known about openmoko for about an hour now :) Jun 11 19:13:04 dennisharrison, from the bitbake recipe.. Jun 11 19:13:06 so, I still don't know what the dev tools look like Jun 11 19:13:16 dennisharrison, ah ok Jun 11 19:13:45 I will catch on fast , so give me the lowdown :) Jun 11 19:13:57 dennisharrison, we have some links put up at the forums in out project page...might be useful Jun 11 19:14:03 *our Jun 11 19:14:10 * Sup3rkiddo needs some caffeine Jun 11 19:14:15 hehe Jun 11 19:14:19 some go juice :) Jun 11 19:14:29 I am checking it out now Sup3rkiddo Jun 11 19:14:45 dennisharrison, right Jun 11 19:41:15 so hows the development of the openmoko plattform going ? Jun 11 19:41:26 * SpeedEvil jumps up and down on it. Jun 11 19:41:29 Seems solid. Jun 11 19:41:42 :P Jun 11 19:41:52 I suspect development will speed up once more people get hardware. Jun 11 19:41:55 except on the northwest corner Jun 11 19:42:24 so im wondering,is it more focused to be used with fingers or with a stylus Jun 11 19:43:04 It seems that a moderate amount will need the stylus. Jun 11 19:43:20 There is no text entry method at the moment for fingers, for example. Jun 11 19:43:37 I'm working on several ideas for that - but... Jun 11 19:44:15 because currently I always compare the Iphone and openmoko and wonder if you will be able to use the openmoko so smoothly Jun 11 19:44:51 smoothly? Jun 11 19:44:58 Probably not - at least for phase 1. (the one that will be available in a few dawy/weeks) Jun 11 19:45:07 yeah elrond Jun 11 19:45:08 Tehre is no hardware graphics accellerator Jun 11 19:47:57 (running gdb on a phone feels... funny) Jun 11 19:48:22 http://www.3g.co.uk/PR/June2007/4755.htm (not related) the worlds first voice automatic handover of multi-mode TD-SCDMA and GSM/GPRS/EDGE in a handset. Jun 11 19:49:36 SpeedEvil, thats been done before as demo tech a few times, but I like to see more of it :) Jun 11 19:50:44 Indeed. Jun 11 19:51:08 their method is heavy, and not something the antiquated american cellular companies will be able to implement in any decent fashion... but very intelligent design on their part none the less! :) Jun 11 19:51:38 Was googling to see if my potential provider had EDGE Jun 11 19:51:43 (though the neo doens't) Jun 11 19:51:52 Can someone please clue me on using the -dbg packages? Jun 11 19:52:25 Elrond: ipkg install -dbg? Jun 11 19:52:38 SpeedEvil, it supports evdo though correct? Jun 11 19:52:53 Elrond: we use objdump to place debug (dwarf2 IIRC) symbols into a different binary Jun 11 19:53:03 zecke - I tried "gdb /usr/bin/.debug/thingy" which didn't like me. But seems "just working", when I use the normal binary. :-) Jun 11 19:53:43 Elrond: right objdump removes the debug symbols from the original binary, places them into a new one and remembers the location of the debug symbols in the original binary Jun 11 19:54:01 Elrond: e.g. I think this is used by Ubuntu's crash reporting system as well Jun 11 19:54:23 Elrond: you can ship stripped binaries but then get a proper stacktrace Jun 11 19:54:27 zecke, yes it is Jun 11 19:54:52 Cool. :-) Jun 11 19:55:18 Now it looks like I need to get nfs working to mount my desktops sources. ;o) Jun 11 19:56:02 night all Jun 11 19:57:15 Elrond: do you know gdb-server? Jun 11 19:59:41 zecke - In theory I do. In practice I haven't used it. ;o) Jun 11 20:00:16 And things start to feel strange. Jun 11 20:00:25 Elrond: before you are going to use nfs, try gdb-server Jun 11 20:04:53 zecke - I used scp for the single file, that is currently of interest. ;o) Jun 11 20:05:29 Elrond: my approach to debugging is: Rule 0.) Write perfect code Jun 11 20:05:56 isn't rule 0 "don't talk about debugging"? Jun 11 20:06:27 koen: you like to get choked by a sith lord, don't you? Jun 11 20:06:35 yes Jun 11 20:06:50 your jedi tricks don't work on me Jun 11 20:07:02 * zecke makes koen share a bed with (a) wookey at guadec Jun 11 20:08:51 What's a "sith lord"? Jun 11 20:09:13 nothing that exists Jun 11 20:09:27 mma = g_malloc0 (sizeof (MokoMainmenuApp)); Jun 11 20:09:34 memset (mma, 0, sizeof (MokoMainmenuApp)); Jun 11 20:09:44 Who wrote this duplicate? ;o) Jun 11 20:09:58 just to be sure... Jun 11 20:11:04 ynezz - There should be some moko_mainmenu_app_new() anyway. Jun 11 20:11:21 Or well. anyway. Not the bug I'm hunting... Jun 11 20:13:55 zecke - "perfect code"... well. I'm not going to comment on "perfect code" and "some of the current openmoko developers" ;o) Jun 11 20:14:19 *installing more -dbg* Jun 11 20:14:49 Elrond: ulimit -c unlimited to make it core dump? Jun 11 20:15:02 ohoh Jun 11 20:15:08 Elrond: and use addr2line on the host? Jun 11 20:15:31 Elrond: or my favorite tool called catchsegv (best glibc tool ever) Jun 11 20:16:02 zecke - Hmm... coredump sounds like another nice idea. Jun 11 20:16:27 zecke - But the backtrace looks bad anyway. I guess, something smashes the stack... So I need to step through it anyway. Jun 11 20:17:02 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Talk:Main_Page]] Jun 11 20:18:00 Elrond: at that point I would valgrind on another architecture (x86) and check if I can replicate it (it is just a shortcut) Jun 11 20:19:08 zecke - Well, I don't have that "broken" combination of components on the hosts... The thing works for most others, just not for me. I'm suspecting some missing tests or so. And so I have to debug on the thing. ;-) Jun 11 20:19:42 Elrond: yeah, still it might be corrupt for everyone but only crashing for you Jun 11 20:19:45 but good luck Jun 11 20:20:40 Thanks. :-) Jun 11 20:20:51 Yeah, running valgrind on the host might generally be a good idea. Jun 11 20:20:59 I fear getting flooded. ;o) Jun 11 20:21:43 re Jun 11 20:21:45 Elrond: Don't use -v and let it generate a suppresion file Jun 11 20:23:41 :-) Jun 11 20:28:17 Oh no! The iPhone had third party applications. Written in AJAX, how, oh how, will the OpenMoko survive :D Jun 11 20:30:34 that's crazy Jun 11 20:41:01 Eeek! =D Jun 11 20:41:10 * nox-Hand wants this phone Jun 11 20:42:44 lol.. 3rd party applications in AJAX.. that's like "you can surf the web"! wow! they've really done it! Jun 11 20:43:20 "best things in life are free" s/things/phones/ Jun 11 20:46:22 tanstaafl Jun 11 20:46:40 pjz: what? :| Jun 11 20:46:55 There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch Jun 11 20:47:02 heheh Jun 11 20:47:11 free as in beer ;) Jun 11 20:47:14 we're not talking about food on this channel Jun 11 20:47:17 at least not very often :) Jun 11 20:47:23 heheh Jun 11 20:47:34 well, actually quite regularly Jun 11 20:47:45 actually, quite often Jun 11 20:47:54 yeah, always :) Jun 11 20:47:58 "openmoko is free as in free speech - iphone is free as in a free lunch" ;-) Jun 11 20:48:20 A question that I am not sure whether anyone actually knows the answer to...: If one craps up this software on the phone, is there some sort of a "reload" tool? ;) Jun 11 20:48:38 And is this "geek but not coder" friendly? :D Jun 11 20:48:58 if you screw up the bootloader, you will need the debug board or something similar Jun 11 20:49:01 not at the moment Jun 11 20:49:04 if you don't, you can fix the rest Jun 11 20:49:11 however, you don't need to play with the bootloader Jun 11 20:49:25 yeah, so if you can manage to avoid that, you're safe! Jun 11 20:49:34 (i.e. you can "reload" stuff) Jun 11 20:49:45 xkr47: Excellent =) Jun 11 20:49:55 Which Linux is it built on? Completely custom? Jun 11 20:50:06 I think it's mostly Linus's Linux... Jun 11 20:50:15 2.6.21.3, isn't it? Jun 11 20:50:19 mjr: Yeah, but perhaps a distro or something also Jun 11 20:50:27 Like, a skimmed down Debian Jun 11 20:50:32 Which I would NOT expect Jun 11 20:50:36 openembedded Jun 11 20:50:53 Excellent Jun 11 20:51:18 * nox-Hand can't decide whether to just sit about ready to buy at first opertunity or wait for retail in september where he can actually afford it Jun 11 20:52:15 nox-Hand needs the "free as in beer" openmoko version ;) Jun 11 20:52:46 that's the "sell your soul to Cingular for all eternity" version with a locked-down GSM chip firmware ;) Jun 11 20:52:55 locked and glued :) Jun 11 20:53:11 xkr47: Yeah, I hate being broke :( I already awe 1500 USD away :o Jun 11 20:53:16 Your soul selling pays my bills, thanks. Jun 11 20:53:24 Damn me going to australia on holiday for six weeks this summer ;) Jun 11 20:53:39 nox-Hand, you working? Jun 11 20:53:50 high-rez, ;) Jun 11 20:53:51 high-rez, are you with the devil or Cingular, or are they the same thing? Jun 11 20:53:56 nox-Hand, heh :) Jun 11 20:54:03 mjr: I'm officiall the New AT&T! Jun 11 20:54:04 ;) Jun 11 20:54:42 xkr47: I am indeed Jun 11 20:54:56 Taking time to earn cash though :| Jun 11 20:55:12 wait til you have kids Jun 11 20:55:17 well I wish you luck with that :) Jun 11 20:55:33 pjz, and wait til they all want an openmoko ;) Jun 11 20:55:33 xkr47: Think anyone might be happy to work on the "donate an OpenMoko to the guy who is 100% fluent in Danish and English so he can translate it for ya" Jun 11 20:55:37 ;) Jun 11 20:56:06 Bah, even by the time your kids are old enough to want a cool phone, they openmoko won't be released. Jun 11 20:56:07 ;) Jun 11 20:56:07 not when all ya need to do the translations is qemu Jun 11 20:56:31 pjz: For testing :D Jun 11 20:56:39 pjz: Find me an excuse for me to get one cheaper ;) Jun 11 20:56:41 XD Jun 11 20:56:42 nox-Hand, well you could contact openmoko team to see if they are working with any danish operators, maybe they could be interested in case there are some? Jun 11 20:56:56 high-rez, heh you optimist! Jun 11 20:58:01 xkr47: Clarify please =) Jun 11 20:58:53 I have heard openmoko works with operators to promote openmoko phones Jun 11 20:59:14 so maybe they have been in contact with some danish ones that could appreciate a danish translation being available Jun 11 20:59:26 or maybe you can help them with that :) Jun 11 21:00:41 do I need to set up a build environment to test translations? Jun 11 21:00:41 xkr47: I'd be interested, though although the Open Soure Movement often tells how age is unimportant, and as long as you are a responsible person, I severely doubt they would want me, a 16 year old person, no matter how high grades I get in *.linguistics and how nerdy I am (though I can't code yet :() Jun 11 21:01:52 well.. I was just shooting ducks here, and my aim is not always so good :) Jun 11 21:02:08 (== just wanted to help) Jun 11 21:02:17 xkr47: I will sniff about for a way to contact the OpenMoko team :) Jun 11 21:02:31 Thanks a lot, and don't worry, I will be in this channel non stop for weeks now :) Jun 11 21:03:07 don't let it ruin your job performance tho :) Jun 11 21:03:32 I don't know if my idea was realistic, I lack skill for that kind of analysis Jun 11 21:03:44 xkr47: I run screen + irssi on a dedicated web server so I have chat all the time :) Jun 11 21:04:09 screen? Jun 11 21:04:14 Though I shall definately try contacting - perhaps I can help in ANY way | even if it don't get me anything, I will have helped get the phone I want Jun 11 21:04:18 LuitvD: You run Linux? Jun 11 21:04:24 * LuitvD runs synaptic to find that program Jun 11 21:04:32 LuitvD: It is a terminal-based window manager Jun 11 21:04:41 oeh, nice Jun 11 21:04:46 If you run a program from your terminal, you can also start it in screen Jun 11 21:05:00 oeh, I have it already :P Jun 11 21:05:17 so, run screen in a terminal, you then run whatever program (say, irssi irc chat) and then press ctrl+a+d to detach the screen. Jun 11 21:05:28 screen -r then reattaches the screen in _any_ terminal Jun 11 21:05:30 so just screen irssi Jun 11 21:05:32 ? Jun 11 21:05:34 yes Jun 11 21:05:56 that starts it up yeah Jun 11 21:06:22 to be specific, that's Ctrl-a d Jun 11 21:06:22 and what keeps it running? just not closing it? Jun 11 21:06:35 you "detach" from the screen Jun 11 21:06:38 what's ctrl-a? Jun 11 21:06:42 then it stays running in the background Jun 11 21:06:56 it's a key combination Jun 11 21:09:21 hmm, how do I find it agaiin? XD Jun 11 21:09:29 it's a process already... Jun 11 21:09:32 LuitvD: screen -r Jun 11 21:09:34 ah Jun 11 21:09:35 that opens it up Jun 11 21:09:36 again Jun 11 21:09:45 and then just ctrl-a d to get out again Jun 11 21:09:47 You can also manually detach it from another terminal using screen -d Jun 11 21:10:09 * xkr47 personally hates that screen uses ctrl-a as control key Jun 11 21:10:19 it's just nuts, I use ctrl-a to go to the beginning of the line all the time Jun 11 21:10:23 xkr47: indeed =P Jun 11 21:10:27 so, I've reconfigured it to use ctrl-z Jun 11 21:10:31 you can do ctrl+a a do send ctrl+a Jun 11 21:10:50 I know, but I still kept detaching screens all the time by accident Jun 11 21:10:58 or worse, killing windows etc Jun 11 21:11:16 * xkr47 wishes ctrl-z was the default, you don't need ctrl-z that much Jun 11 21:12:53 xkr47: Thanks for your help, I will see if I can't ind a way to get ahold of the team tomorrow - it's late, time for bed :) Jun 11 21:13:28 Night! =) Jun 11 21:13:42 nn Jun 11 21:17:02 do I have to build my own rootfs images to test my translations? Jun 11 21:21:54 blast, I think I'll just try screen and irssi again once I got either a linux smartphone, or a home server Jun 11 21:24:35 LuitvD, yeah Jun 11 21:31:43 Hello, everyone. Jun 11 21:32:00 I interrupted flashing of root fs on phase1 openmoko... and now kernel complains it does not find /. Jun 11 21:32:12 I tried reflashing both kernel and rootfs since that :-( Jun 11 21:33:48 is partition setup same on phase0 and phase1? Jun 11 21:37:54 oopsie Jun 11 21:38:12 can't browse the openembedded org.openembedded.dev branch on the website Jun 11 21:40:27 * LuitvD wants the 'overboard' man-page Jun 11 21:41:34 * xkr47 wants the overboard woman-page Jun 11 21:43:24 * LuitvD guesses xkr47 doesn't get it... Jun 11 21:43:31 (the joke, not the page) Jun 11 21:43:46 http://burningsmell.org/man_overboard.png Jun 11 21:43:49 I did.. I just thought rescuing a woman overboard would be even more fun ;) Jun 11 21:43:57 heh Jun 11 21:44:01 ah ok :) Jun 11 21:44:09 so I was the one who didn't get ti :P Jun 11 21:44:14 s/ti/it/ Jun 11 21:44:14 LuitvD meant: so I was the one who didn't get it :P Jun 11 21:44:19 LuitvD: funny. Jun 11 21:46:48 did anyone successfully flash phase1 openmoko? Jun 11 22:00:02 pavelm - flash what? Jun 11 22:00:18 pavelm - BTW: basic python stuff is on buildhost; I did not get to build pygtk for you. Jun 11 22:01:03 elrond: I noticed laforge (or someone) build python for Marcel last night. Bad no pygtk, yet :-) Jun 11 22:01:20 elrond: I flashed Bv4 neo, and now it will not find init :-( Jun 11 22:03:31 i'm sure most Bv4 owners reflashed the rootfs until now Jun 11 22:03:50 I guess the same. Jun 11 22:03:59 ... okay... I never reflashed my Bv3 ;-) Jun 11 22:04:07 I always upgrade individual packages. Jun 11 22:04:46 * balrog-kun mostly reflashes the rootfs to better test his kernels :p Jun 11 22:05:24 balrog: Is the procedure same as in phase0? Jun 11 22:05:37 (phase0 == Bv3) Jun 11 22:05:38 It really should be. Jun 11 22:05:57 pavelm: i didn't have a Bv3, but it is as described in dfu-util -h Jun 11 22:06:00 I guess I should not have stopped that dfu while flashing... but I think I've done that before. Jun 11 22:06:48 alternatively you can use the SD or reflash from under linux Jun 11 22:07:16 balrog: I have two sd cards (one 128MB that came with neo) and neither works reliably :-( Jun 11 22:07:30 * pavelm wonders what "factory reset" in boot menu does. Jun 11 22:07:40 oh, i got no SD with my neo :( Jun 11 22:08:07 balrog-kun, pavelm I didn't get one either. ;-) Jun 11 22:08:29 .... but then, I'm not an official P0/P0.99 guy. ;-) Jun 11 22:08:40 although what i'm missing the most is the carrying poach that i've seen in koen's pictures Jun 11 22:09:57 balrog-kun - Yep. I always carry the whole box around, when I want to show around the thing. Jun 11 22:10:08 umm..well... carrying poach is useful for protecting neo, but that's about it. Jun 11 22:10:19 you can't strap it to your belt. Jun 11 22:10:33 it hurts to have it around your neck. Jun 11 22:10:35 it's not about being useful, but it looks cool :) Jun 11 22:10:49 Well, "my" neo just traveled about 1600km the last week. The box just took a lot of space. ;-) Jun 11 22:10:50 balrog: Yes, it does :-) Jun 11 22:11:34 But it was okay, I put all my other electronic toys in the box to the neo. ;) Jun 11 22:11:38 * pavelm is trying to flash 0611 root file system, again. "Factory reset" does something interesting... it shows a progress bar then boots. Jun 11 22:12:05 pavelm - Factory reset is only "boot default" ;) Jun 11 22:12:18 pavelm - Or something alike... let me reboot the neo and see. Jun 11 22:12:20 elrond: too bad. Jun 11 22:13:44 pavelm - *gna* "Factory reset" is hardcoded somewhere in u-boot. I don't want to look now. Jun 11 22:18:02 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[FAQ/nl]] [[Main_Page/nl]] [[Talk:Neo1973_Battery]] [[Wishlist:Determine_Position]] [[User:Coni]] [[Talk:Wishlist:Ignore_Call_Button]] Jun 11 22:18:09 nikol vec ati Jun 11 22:18:17 * rox apologizes Jun 11 22:20:17 elrond: Thanks... apparently, it does not help. Jun 11 22:21:34 pavelm: did you download directly to the rootfs partition? Jun 11 22:22:00 if you downloaded to RAM first, and the used "nand write" to flash then there's a possible bug Jun 11 22:22:18 i've hit this bug in qemu recently Jun 11 22:27:32 Not to mention one should use write.e, I think. Jun 11 22:28:50 balrog: I just used ./dfu-util -a 5 -R -D Jun 11 22:29:26 okay, that's direct to flash Jun 11 22:30:38 Elrond: yeah, or write.jffs2, but the bug (or rather, the catch) is that the image is over 32MB since last week (it just grew), and hits the area where u-boot has its stack in memory, Jun 11 22:31:02 so part of the image may get overwritten and then you get mysterious missing files in the rootfs image Jun 11 22:31:27 and it becomes really hard to track Jun 11 22:31:56 took me half day to debug :) Jun 11 22:32:08 balrog: Well... that's not okay, because now it means I do not know what to do to recover it :-( Jun 11 22:33:26 pavelm: i mean it's not the same issue that i've hit :p Jun 11 22:39:06 balrog: dfu should erase whole flash partitions, right? Jun 11 22:40:11 pavelm: afaik nope, only the part being overritten (rounded to nearest erase block) Jun 11 22:41:34 you can play with "nand dump" to see if all of it got written properly or just retry the operation Jun 11 22:41:41 balrog: Hmm, that should be enough. System mounts jffs2 successfully, that means I do have right drivers... strane. Jun 11 22:41:52 balrog: I did >3 retries. Jun 11 22:41:57 hmm Jun 11 22:42:29 btw. latest u-boot's dfu support has a patch that speeds up the download, worth upgrading Jun 11 22:42:53 balrog: Well... I'd prefer not to break it any more than it is just now. Jun 11 22:42:58 but thanks :-) Jun 11 23:06:25 balrog-kun - Well, I only update u-boot to versions, that others have tested. And my u-boot currently works nicely enough for me. Jun 11 23:19:22 Good night people. :) Jun 11 23:23:23 good night! Jun 11 23:24:26 i guess i'm one of the others then :) Jun 11 23:24:30 Elrond: goof night Jun 11 23:24:33 *good Jun 11 23:44:30 night all Jun 12 00:18:02 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Talk:Wishlist:context_based_to-do_list]] [[User:Minime]] [[Buying_Interest_List]] [[Talk:Wish_List]] [[Current_events]] [[User:Csdexter]] Jun 12 00:22:53 pavelm: just to check.. did you write the .jffs2 image and not one of the other ones? Jun 12 00:38:05 counter Jun 12 00:38:05 http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 40%) P1: 3 days 17:40:55 (3.737±3.7 days) (1442;227) Jun 12 00:42:16 <[lankester]> list in http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Buying_Interest_List#Phase_1 is messed up, somebody know why ? Jun 12 01:36:21 balrog: yep, I did write jffs2 one... and the same image worked on phase0 ... Jun 12 01:36:30 good night everyone! Jun 12 01:37:08 good night Jun 12 02:07:22 * aloril wonders if mass market is GTA03, not GTA02 Jun 12 02:08:12 <_llll_> what does GTA stand for? Jun 12 02:09:14 Nobody knows. Jun 12 02:09:31 GSM Test A Jun 12 02:09:36 Grand Theft Auto Jun 12 02:09:49 Gerbil Training Aparatus Jun 12 02:10:18 <_llll_> k... what does it mean? is this a hardware revision? Jun 12 02:10:27 yes Jun 12 02:12:55 <_llll_> ah, i see. sort of Jun 12 02:13:59 we know there will be GTA03, laforge said so in that video in slide Jun 12 02:14:18 but when and what it will be is completely unknown Jun 12 02:15:18 and GTX01, GTX02 too which probably are quite far away (I guess maybe these are what will be announced Q3 or later) Jun 12 02:16:50 * aloril wonders if s/Probably/Maybe/ in "same hardware as Phase 1+, software is updated." in [[Neo1973]] Jun 12 02:17:26 well.. it has wrong day anyway ... Jun 12 02:18:02 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[MFAQCorrection]] [[Buying_Interest_List]] [[Web_Address_Field]] [[Talk:GSM_Communication_Infrastructure]] [[User:Cedel]] [[User:Speedevil]] Jun 12 02:18:53 I should footnote mroe when I add stuff. Jun 12 02:33:05 LaF0rge: Does anybody ever tested the Codec <-> BT PCM interaction? Jun 12 02:33:47 I do have the headset part working and we are sending data over the air, but there is still something wrong. Jun 12 02:35:44 Or do I have to do something more than "alsactl -f /etc/alsa/gsmbluetooth.state restore 0"? **** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Jun 12 02:59:56 2007