**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Jun 13 02:59:57 2007 Jun 13 03:21:00 morning Jun 13 03:21:06 morning Jun 13 03:21:28 any news yet about QA? Jun 13 03:28:05 this will happen tomorrow + thursday Jun 13 03:36:21 cool! Jun 13 03:55:50 O_O Jun 13 03:56:18 aloril talks? ... aloril is someone's chat client with automated responses isnt it? Jun 13 03:57:19 a person's chat client with automated responses. Jun 13 03:57:40 hmmm... i should figure out how to do that Jun 13 04:00:20 freak132: xchat supports scripting Jun 13 04:01:32 aloril: yea, i know. i just havent gotten around to learning it yet. know a good site for getting started with it? Jun 13 04:02:28 google got xchat and python (and maybe scripting too) Jun 13 04:02:34 s:got:for: Jun 13 04:03:01 ah, and perl i think Jun 13 04:05:34 yeah, pick your favorite language ;-) Jun 13 05:18:30 morning Jun 13 05:43:35 counter Jun 13 05:43:35 http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 40%) P1: 3 days 03:08:10 (3.131±3.1 days) (1452;227) Jun 13 05:46:11 aloril: Tried to update your wiki with the QA info, but Edit doesn't work Jun 13 05:46:32 oh? what did it say? Jun 13 05:47:49 Noting, just hanged for 5 minutes Jun 13 05:48:19 for some reason it has been slow yesterday and it seems to be slow today too (I don't run it myself, so I don't know more about what is going on) Jun 13 05:48:27 Ok Jun 13 05:48:40 it does respond eventually though Jun 13 05:48:42 Only wanted to add the Q/A dates Jun 13 05:48:45 Ok Jun 13 05:49:11 you mean "tomorrow + thursday" ? Jun 13 05:50:01 (isn't "tomorrow"=="thursday"?) Jun 13 05:50:23 I'd like to think so too.. Jun 13 05:50:50 But I'm assuming mickeyl is working so hard he thought it's still tuesday Jun 13 05:51:00 So they've started today :D Jun 13 05:51:08 hehe Jun 13 05:51:51 it could be read also as literal answer to question "news about QA" at that time Jun 13 05:52:50 Hmm.. Na.. This will happen = QA happening Jun 13 05:54:46 ok Jun 13 06:06:32 openmoko: 03laforge * r2236 10/trunk/src/target/u-boot/patches/neo1973-chargefast.patch: use pcf50606 fastcharge codepath only for GTA01 Jun 13 06:07:52 uhm, right# Jun 13 06:07:59 all these timezones are making me sick Jun 13 06:08:03 on weekend we Jun 13 06:08:05 ll have news Jun 13 06:08:08 i think Jun 13 06:08:15 how the testing worked Jun 13 06:09:59 mickey_fic: Thanks for the info :) Jun 13 06:12:33 openmoko: 03laforge * r2237 10/trunk/src/target/u-boot/patches/uboot-gta02.patch: (log message trimmed) Jun 13 06:12:33 openmoko: GTA02: Jun 13 06:12:33 openmoko: * make sure pcf50633 board-level code is built Jun 13 06:12:33 openmoko: * fix PLL configuration to assume 12MHz crystal Jun 13 06:12:33 openmoko: * disable NAND write protection Jun 13 06:12:35 openmoko: * don't initialize jbt6k74 via 24xx SPI Jun 13 06:12:38 openmoko: * fix stock partition table base sizes Jun 13 06:24:02 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Wish_List_-_Hardware]] [[Buying_Interest_List]] [[User_talk:Speedevil]] Jun 13 06:24:29 openmoko: 03laforge * r2238 10/trunk/src/target/u-boot/patches/ (neo1973-chargefast.patch uboot-gta02.patch): fix syntax error Jun 13 06:26:18 counter Jun 13 06:26:18 http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 40%) P1: 3 days 02:46:49 (3.116±3.1 days) (1453;227) Jun 13 06:27:35 openmoko: 03laforge * r2239 10/trunk/oe/packages/uboot/uboot-gta01_svn.bb: start building gta02v1 uboot images Jun 13 06:28:38 * aloril thinks probability could increase a bit (depends on QA and how long after that they are orderable) Jun 13 06:28:58 * aloril doesn't know how long is "QA OK" -> you can order them Jun 13 06:29:13 (assuming of course they are OK (knocks on wood)) Jun 13 07:37:03 morning Jun 13 07:51:29 Are you sure? Jun 13 07:51:33 morningcounter Jun 13 07:54:13 morning will occur in +- 12 hours Jun 13 07:54:42 now *thats* a counter you can trust ;-) Jun 13 07:54:47 hehe Jun 13 07:55:14 i'm still booting, must be morning :D Jun 13 07:58:23 ~ugt Jun 13 07:58:27 [ugt] Universial Greeting Time. Created in #mipslinux, it is a rule that states that whenever somebody enters an IRC channel it is always morning, and it is always late when the person leaves. The local time of any other people in the channel, including the greeter, is irrelevant. http://www.total-knowledge.com/~ilya/mips/ugt.html Jun 13 08:04:00 good morning Jun 13 08:08:30 counter Jun 13 08:08:30 http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 40%) P1: 3 days 01:55:43 (3.080±3.1 days) (1454;227) Jun 13 08:09:02 what? those last 6 hours took way longer then 6 hours Jun 13 08:23:07 good morning Jun 13 08:23:19 mornin' Jun 13 08:24:02 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Wish_List]] [[User_talk:Flerchjj]] [[Wish_List_-_Hardware]] [[User_talk:Speedevil]] [[Wishlist_-_Hardware_-_Novel_Devices]] [[Wishlist:Camera]] [[Wishlist:Unlikely]] Jun 13 08:24:45 rwhitby: shifts to summertime. Jun 13 08:25:03 damn! +- 13 hours then Jun 13 08:25:25 (that covers leap seconds as well) Jun 13 08:32:40 moin all Jun 13 08:42:14 mornin' Jun 13 08:47:29 Elrond: woohoo, http://article.gmane.org/gmane.comp.java.openjdk.general/266 Jun 13 08:49:32 Stephmw: What is the fbtoolkit? Jun 13 08:49:57 CM: direct framebuffer outout (and ts input) support for J2SE Jun 13 08:50:03 *output Jun 13 08:50:17 Aha, nice. :) Jun 13 08:50:31 Sounded a bit like like that, but I had to ask Jun 13 08:51:09 yeah, still thinking of a 'proper' name... but tbh, I'm kinda taken by fbtoolkit Jun 13 08:51:35 other suggestiong, fbtk, fb-toolkit, just didn't seem accessible enough Jun 13 08:52:53 moi Jun 13 08:52:57 +n Jun 13 09:24:51 what is reasonable time for "QA OK <-> can order now" ? Jun 13 09:25:20 week (5 work days)? Jun 13 09:56:12 lrg: Btw. the code bluetooth_pcm.c didn't help. Jun 13 10:02:00 holtmann: ok, I'll have XorA take a look when he's back on Monday. Jun 13 10:03:45 holtmann: fwiw, it's probably something simple as he could not really test it fully at the time. Jun 13 10:06:10 is the $350 price for developer's, too? Jun 13 10:06:50 Maybe I can convince my wife and work on Neo, GPS to add a Openstreetmap tracker/editor onto the phone Jun 13 10:06:55 $350 is the price for the device, whatever you are... Jun 13 10:07:42 the only way you can get other prices is when you're an educational organisation Jun 13 10:07:55 (AFAIK) Jun 13 10:10:42 * sparq wonders if he could get the educational price if he promises only to have educational conversations on the Neo Jun 13 10:14:57 * * OM Bug 605 has been created by ruediger@blueboot.org Jun 13 10:14:58 where ? Jun 13 10:14:58 * * initscripts not compatible to busybox Jun 13 10:14:59 peices? Jun 13 10:14:59 * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=605 Jun 13 10:15:02 prices? Jun 13 10:15:46 I've never seen discussion of other prices than $350 Jun 13 10:16:46 aye, I've never heard of any other price either Jun 13 10:16:49 sparq: like "Honey, I want to educate so that you know I love you" ?? :-) Jun 13 10:16:52 $350 is already very cheap Jun 13 10:17:15 schurig: 'pick up the soap please _honey_'? Jun 13 10:17:40 schurig: "So, as long as we're talking, did you see the latest issue of Nature?" Jun 13 10:17:41 heard something about educational use of the device, if a school wants to buy a bunch of Neos, that they should just contact FIC Jun 13 10:18:12 why should schools need/want phones for educational purposes? Jun 13 10:18:26 to teach kids how to phone? That's not the job of a school! Jun 13 10:18:49 to teach kits how to whack Linux on a device? They would be much better of with a 100$ single board computer Jun 13 10:19:42 doing a class on embedded device development goes a lot further with a phone... Jun 13 10:20:29 lrg: Hopefully. This is the only missing piece for headset support (besides an UI integration). I verified with a CSR development board that the headset code works fine with various headset. Jun 13 10:20:38 guaqua: doing embedded design goes a lot further if you have an SBC with lots of free GPIOs, so that you actually can interface stuff to it Jun 13 10:21:08 schurig: has exposed I2C Jun 13 10:21:26 Tying stuff to I2C is almost trivial. Jun 13 10:21:26 well think what you may Jun 13 10:22:20 SpeedEvil: with i2c than you can't teach them about IRQs, e.g level/edge, reaction time, whatever Jun 13 10:23:27 anyway, a phone controlling via i2c some robot device would be fun anyway for school kids Jun 13 10:25:02 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[FAQ]] [[Sjf2410-linux]] [[Wish_List]] Jun 13 10:25:40 SpeedEvil: AVR32 based devboard costs 69 USD and allow to make embedded non-gui development Jun 13 10:32:05 I agree, it's not ideal for all. Jun 13 10:32:13 It's good for some development. Jun 13 10:33:19 Stephmw: is there some web shop somewhere to order such a phone? Jun 13 10:34:46 schurig: not now. Jun 13 10:34:48 Later. Jun 13 10:35:20 I just thought that the current developers must have got their phones somewhere. Not all are as lucky as hrw to get one for free :-) Jun 13 10:35:34 schurig: two Jun 13 10:35:44 hrw: ok, send me one then :-) Jun 13 10:36:00 hrw: I'll also finish the Marvell driver for you then :-) Jun 13 10:36:02 schurig: I believe existing developers were handpicked for their existing participation and experience Jun 13 10:36:23 schurig: and sent devices Jun 13 10:37:07 oh, they participated first and got then devices? Running openmoko on other hardware/inside qemu then? Jun 13 10:38:05 most likely participation in other similar projects and experience aswell Jun 13 10:40:11 counter_msg http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 50%) Jun 13 10:40:11 aloril changed counter prefix message to http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 50%) Jun 13 10:40:51 also added blurbs about GTA02, etc.. and 2 'new' news items and fudged probabilities Jun 13 10:41:26 (blurb: hardware list/speculation, buyer target, etc..) Jun 13 10:48:22 also added 3 days extra for (don't know how much time it takes after assuming QA is OK) Jun 13 10:48:22 counter Jun 13 10:48:23 http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 50%) P1: 5 days 01:11:33 (5.050±4.0 days) (1455;227) Jun 13 10:48:51 (one day of those is taken by increasing lower limit ;-) Jun 13 11:03:21 hrw: btw, I can send commands to the Marvell CF card and receive answers, e.g. the card tells the MAC address, channels, firmware version etc. Quite nice :-) Jun 13 11:06:53 hi Jun 13 11:07:38 anyone knows when this phone will be for sale in norway? Jun 13 11:07:38 Boggibill: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) Jun 13 11:07:45 schurig: which sources I should fetch to test it? Jun 13 11:08:15 hrw: it doesn't associate yet, and event "ifconfig eth1 up" doesn't work Jun 13 11:08:28 hrw: so I guess that is not much to test, only to participate Jun 13 11:08:36 hrw: my sources are in the linuxtogo project Jun 13 11:10:37 tach Jun 13 11:10:39 thanks aloril Jun 13 11:10:45 np Jun 13 11:10:47 counter Jun 13 11:10:48 http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 50%) P1: 5 days 00:49:08 (5.034±4.0 days) (1456;227) Jun 13 11:13:56 schurig: can those patches be applied to 2.6.22-rc4 git tree? libertas was added into mainline Jun 13 11:14:11 hrw: I don't know Jun 13 11:14:35 k Jun 13 11:14:41 hrw: I apply them to libertas-2.6, because this is the way how my patches go upstream (libertas-2.6 -> linux-wireless-dev -> Jeff Garzik -> Linus Torvalds) Jun 13 11:15:35 hrw: if you checkout the full project, you simple to "make clone" (you can speedup the clone if you put "GIT_REFERENCE=--reference /usr/src/linux-wireless-dev" (or whatever, could be linux-git) into Makefile.local Jun 13 11:15:50 hrw: this will clone the libertas-2.6, and apply the patches on top of it Jun 13 11:15:57 using quilt Jun 13 11:16:34 hrw: if we need to talk more about this, then maybe better in #libertas Jun 13 11:16:50 sure. but on my laptop I have totally patched kernel now Jun 13 11:20:08 Stephmw - Why did you post the fbtoolkit URL directly to me? Jun 13 11:20:31 hrw - Hi! :-) Jun 13 11:20:51 ho Elrond Jun 13 11:21:09 Elrond: you were randomly selected.. actually, no it was just because you helped look up the XServer sizes ;) Jun 13 11:21:25 Stephmw - Ahh. ;o) Jun 13 11:23:22 Hmm, looking at the svn logs, GTA02 seems to mature... Jun 13 11:24:52 about counter page: If I have said something in "too sure", I would like hear about it and change it to be less sure Jun 13 11:25:04 (or opposite ;-) Jun 13 11:27:15 GTA02 has 128k of u-boot env.. yuck... what am I supposed to put there? ;o) Jun 13 11:29:16 guess it's a large page NAND then Jun 13 11:30:04 using less than one block would make updating the envrionment more complex and error prone Jun 13 11:30:06 drath - Maybe. Jun 13 11:30:14 world's first uboot virus ;p Jun 13 11:30:18 hehehe Jun 13 11:31:28 drath not maybe. shure... besides that.. mtd only supports partitions which end on block boundarys afaik ;) Jun 13 11:32:06 ynezz - *lol* :-)) Jun 13 11:32:24 and no. gta02 is not mature.. its only getting its first hands on hacking on the first protoype we have ever. will take some time and atleast one or 2 devel-revisions Jun 13 11:32:31 hmpf... reading u-boot patches without data sheets is no fun. :-| Jun 13 11:33:04 yes, it is large page Jun 13 11:33:04 roh - So you have ONE prototype already around? Jun 13 11:33:07 there is not small page NANDs of that size Jun 13 11:33:11 Elrond: print 'em all in work then ;) Jun 13 11:33:18 Elrond patience ;) you know you will get them Jun 13 11:33:43 roh - I'm looking for the PCF datasheet. Jun 13 11:33:55 Elrond there are afaik 2 at all. really small number. first check of 'does it do anything at all' Jun 13 11:34:41 Even two. :-) And yes, I know, how hw devel works. I have that next door at work. ;-) Jun 13 11:35:00 pcf50633 to be precise. Jun 13 11:35:19 Elrond hehe.. then you know it takes ages only to manuf. a few prototypes, compared to a few revisions of code Jun 13 11:35:38 roh: how firmly was the accelerometer in GTA02 picked? I noted on the mailing list that a PIC with I2C + the accelerometer in the Wii might actually be cheaper, as well as having several more bits of accuracy. Which enables some things. Jun 13 11:36:09 As well as potentially having interesting things doable with the 'spare' A/Ds and GPIO pins Jun 13 11:36:29 SpeedEvil we will test what we have now (harald has said a few words about it i think) and see if its up to our expectations. Jun 13 11:36:58 I hope it's not - the performance is so low - based on the datasheet - that it rules out interesting apps. Jun 13 11:37:02 I just have a silly question... I just stumbled upon openmoko and found it quite interesting, and i was wondering what I can do to help out with this project? Jun 13 11:37:21 SpeedEvil its a fully digital component. atleast from the outside view. a/d is within the sensor Jun 13 11:37:31 roh: yes - a 7 bit A/D Jun 13 11:38:07 Boggibill - Build software and fix bugs. There are plenty of them. ;-)) Jun 13 11:38:10 roh: Raw sensors of this class support easily better than 11 bits analog. Maybe 10 with no trimming. Jun 13 11:38:11 SpeedEvil i know. lets try it first and then cry 'its shit' or 'praise the silicon manufacturer $FOO-BAR' ;) Jun 13 11:38:42 There is no point IMO in trying a device that states that it's very bad on the datasheet. Jun 13 11:39:16 The extra resolution enables other applications. Jun 13 11:39:30 For example, fairly accurate dead reckoning when it's in a car-holder. Jun 13 11:39:35 SpeedEvil could be. but you also have to look out for mechanical parameters, lead time, and other specs of it. it would be great to have a lot of stuff. but some is just not produced yet at all or not even avail as samples Jun 13 11:39:45 Boggibill - Or if you are not a programmer, read the wiki and help people by answering questions / remove spam from the wiki / give it more structure, if it misses structure... Jun 13 11:40:02 Elrond: yeah, i can do that :). is it possible for me to get a phone to test it on? Jun 13 11:40:22 Sure. However, the PIC is widely available, as is the AD part. (and modestly cheaper for the two of them than the ST part) Jun 13 11:40:40 SpeedEvil pics are much too power hungry. sorry. Jun 13 11:40:42 Boggibill - Or slowly go through the bugs and see, if something could be done by a random hacker and try asking someone to try it. (I have a GTA01Bv03 next to me and can do tests to verify, that bugs are still valid for example) Jun 13 11:41:03 SpeedEvil besides that they take up a lot of pcb-space compared to other components Jun 13 11:41:11 roh: Not actually at slow clocks. At 1Mhz, the total power is comparable to the integrated solution. Jun 13 11:41:19 4*4 QFN Jun 13 11:41:32 SpeedEvil: there are specs available for FOSS code for what you propose? (this is also limiting factor) Jun 13 11:41:49 aloril: what do you mean? Jun 13 11:41:58 SpeedEvil i think since there are 2 of these 3-axis thingies which also can do an irq at 'clicks' or 'taps' will be nice. Jun 13 11:42:08 SpeedEvil 4x4 is _huge_ Jun 13 11:42:26 roh: 2 3 axis of this sort basically can't do anything. Jun 13 11:42:32 That 1 can't Jun 13 11:42:57 SpeedEvil: I mean that GPL driver is completely possible? (it probably is I guess) Jun 13 11:42:57 You have to _really_ shake the device hard in rotation to get any more than 1 bit of resolution unfortunately. Jun 13 11:43:06 Boggibill - Sorry. No hardware available to the big public now. You can emulate the phone using qemu though. Jun 13 11:43:08 aloril: you mean of the GPS? Jun 13 11:43:11 SpeedEvil they can. they are mounted 45 degree rotated to each other on different corners. you will see Jun 13 11:43:18 Elrond: can I pm you? Jun 13 11:43:34 Boggibill - Yep. Jun 13 11:43:36 SpeedEvil: no, I mean what you propose accelerometer replacement Jun 13 11:43:40 roh: Unfortunately, you are wrong. Consider that you can take the 3 outputs of the accellerometer, and make one vector. Jun 13 11:43:52 roh: This vector can be trivially rotated. Jun 13 11:44:21 SpeedEvil thats why the 2 chips need a mechanical distance Jun 13 11:44:25 roh: The outputs you get from two accellerometers are basically the differential accels due to the roll/pitch/yaw Jun 13 11:44:51 Right. Now, run the numbers for the accelerations due to rotation. They are quite small. Jun 13 11:45:07 I did the numbers for a 12 bit or so A/D on the AD part on the wiki Jun 13 11:45:52 With a 7 bit - well, it's not really usable in a phone as it's unsafe to shake a phone that hard. Jun 13 11:46:26 SpeedEvil hey.. you can cry as you want. its not helping anybody. try to be constructive. Jun 13 11:46:35 I am being constructive. Jun 13 11:46:53 SpeedEvil how HARD you have to shake something has nothing to do with the number of bits. Jun 13 11:47:01 It does. Jun 13 11:47:06 It does. Jun 13 11:47:11 SpeedEvil: if you are right, I guess they will see that in evaluating it (laforge seemed pretty unsure if this was good solution) Jun 13 11:47:14 The accellerations due to roll/pitch/yaw are _small Jun 13 11:47:15 If there are too few bits, you can't measure the shaking. Jun 13 11:47:30 On the order of 1-several milligee Jun 13 11:47:33 thats something totally related to the measuring range and the energy as well as the scalar in the sensor. Jun 13 11:47:50 Measuring range can't be larger than the phone. Jun 13 11:47:51 No. Jun 13 11:48:04 SpeedEvil: so I guess this could very well be one thing changed in next revision Jun 13 11:48:07 The range has to be set large, to get the base. Jun 13 11:48:11 You want to measure differences. Jun 13 11:48:16 ... that's where bits come in. Jun 13 11:48:21 The gravity vector drops out as you're only interested in differential accels. Jun 13 11:48:57 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Accelerometer_Fundamentals has the numbers Jun 13 11:49:05 just read the datasheet and wait till we know how that stuff feels in the real world. yet all that is total speculation Jun 13 11:49:56 It's unfortunately not speculation, it's the underlying physics. You don't need hardware or the phone for this. Jun 13 11:50:06 The datasheet states that it's 7 bits. Jun 13 11:50:32 This means an accelleration error of 10 milligee. Or 10cm/s^2 Jun 13 11:50:35 err Jun 13 11:50:58 Err - not quite as the max accel is around that point. Jun 13 11:51:20 question: is it linear? (I guess so, just verifying) Jun 13 11:51:26 3G or 2G/127 anyway. This is a _huge_ accelleration compared to the differentials you will get by waving the phone around. Jun 13 11:51:45 aloril: the parts that are under discussion are more or less linear. Jun 13 11:52:00 They may need non-linearieties, and cross-axis sensitivities compensated out. Jun 13 11:53:06 As actual numbers - an error of 10milligee gives you around 60 degrees of heading error in 1 second. Jun 13 11:53:23 With a 10cm baseline Jun 13 11:53:40 hmm.. dropped 1 object and moved second object: I could easily move it at same speed as dropped object Jun 13 11:54:13 (moved object: mobile phone) Jun 13 11:58:56 aloril: ? Jun 13 12:00:05 Oh - both of the proposed devices are quite enough for telling gross pointings and acceleration. Jun 13 12:00:08 SpeedEvil: dropping object: basically going from 1G to 0G, moving so its negative G in relation to ground is trivial Jun 13 12:01:04 Measuring the current accelleration vector I mean. Jun 13 12:01:12 Yep. The sensors will probably be good at detecting the main accelaration vector... but one would be enough for that, I guess. Jun 13 12:01:58 well.. measuring car rotation is quite different from measuring user rotating phone Jun 13 12:02:18 You don't actually need that for a phone strapped to the car. Jun 13 12:02:21 even on top of table Jun 13 12:02:56 See the start of http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Accelerometer_Fundamentals Jun 13 12:03:25 If you assume the car doesn't drift, and points in the direction it goes, you can get quite accurate. Jun 13 12:03:48 well, I'm talking about moving phone by hand only, not about car moving or user moving ;-) Jun 13 12:03:52 SpeedEvil its a phone, no car Jun 13 12:04:15 And if it's clamped into a car-holder, you have a known relationship between the phone and the car. Jun 13 12:04:21 roh: and SpeedEvil wants to use it to complement GPS so car is relevant too Jun 13 12:05:19 haven't checked math, but I think both of you have a point: it probably is not enough sensitive for some stuff, but it should be enough sensitive for other stuff Jun 13 12:05:44 aloril: i do not see that happen. meaning accel sensors which have so low noise, sensitivity, low power, small and not too expensive Jun 13 12:07:24 besides that, every modern car already has all the data he is missing.. thats why the navigationsystem in fat german cars (which is completely integrated) also usually works in tunnels Jun 13 12:07:47 roh: Actual worked numbers of the part used in the Wii - which is slightly cheaper than the ST one - takes around a minute to move at 40MPH enough to move from a true heading of (say) north to a false heading of northnortheast. Over short periods - 10-20s, it's quite accurate. Jun 13 12:09:09 (with the phone clamped in a car-holder) Jun 13 12:11:03 5cm at 1G: 0.1s (easy to do for hand, just put object on top of hand and move hand downwards) Jun 13 12:12:24 aloril: yes - the hand can trivially do this - I'm mainly talking of the ability of the phone to sense gentle twisting motions. Which is the only possible benefit of 2 accels. Jun 13 12:14:45 5cm at 0.01G takes 1s which is quite slow twist Jun 13 12:15:17 hmm.. yeah, I guess one accelerometer at extreme end of phone would be enough to detect all basic twists by hand Jun 13 12:15:45 signature unlocking: include accelerometer readings too Jun 13 12:16:17 counter Jun 13 12:16:17 http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 50%) P1: 4 days 23:43:38 (4.989±4.0 days) (1457;227) Jun 13 12:21:57 Sigh. I may be an idiot. Jun 13 12:22:05 actually its even better than my above numbers because its actually 2.5cm acceleration and then 2.5cm deacceleration(sp?), not just 5cm acceleration Jun 13 12:22:07 I have no idea where I got the 7 bit figure. Jun 13 12:22:30 I recall it being from a datasheet from a part number mentioned. Jun 13 12:22:47 I can't find the appropriate place I found it. Jun 13 12:23:36 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Main_Page/it]] [[Buying_Interest_List]] [[Wishlist:LiveUSB_distro]] [[Main_page_-_recast]] Jun 13 12:23:42 The error on the part linked from the wiki is 1 milligee. Jun 13 12:24:13 SpeedEvil hehe.. thats what i also am searching. it only gives me 'there are 3 registers, 8bit wide for the data' and that they say sensitivity is about 18 mg/digit or 72mg/digit depending if in 2g or in 8g range mode Jun 13 12:25:36 Ah - we're looking at different datasheets then. Jun 13 12:25:43 Taht's the 7 bit part I was talking of. Jun 13 12:26:39 As 4000mg (total range) divided by 18 = 222 Jun 13 12:26:54 which is 7 bit range at +-1G levels Jun 13 12:27:10 What's that part number, and where did you get it? Jun 13 12:28:15 SpeedEvil http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/neo1973-hardware/2007-June/000133.html .. and take the note on the end serious, please ;) Jun 13 12:30:30 http://www.st.com/stonline/products/literature/ds/12726.pdf ? Jun 13 12:30:57 Certainly - however, IMO, pointing out that there are potential problems with component selection may shave off a revision. Jun 13 12:32:10 SpeedEvil: you mean instead of GTA02v03 it would be in GTA02v02 ? (nothing that can be done about GTA02v01 now, already done) Jun 13 12:32:52 aloril: nothing needs to be done as long as we have not completed testing the thing Jun 13 12:33:05 * aloril nods to roh Jun 13 12:33:14 and since 'navigating cars' is not really on the specs at all... Jun 13 12:33:53 it should be enough for all kinds of stuff you do with hands and that alone is useful thing Jun 13 12:34:33 there is that usual example: rotate phone -> rotate screen Jun 13 12:34:44 aloril: yep. and besides.. it hase much more detail in 2g mode than in 8g. Jun 13 12:34:50 s/hase/has Jun 13 12:35:06 another example (somebody else said it): if you drop phone it can scream (so you notice you dropped it for example) Jun 13 12:35:23 step-counter for joggers *duck* Jun 13 12:35:32 yup, games, etc.. Jun 13 12:36:42 roh: I was simply commenting that you get little to no use of it in dual accelerometer mode with an accel with 7 bits or so resolution. Jun 13 12:36:58 in general why not use it for input in addition to touch screen? (at least to my eyes when I move/tap fingers to cell phone (not Neo1973) phone moves too, probably can be detected by this chip) Jun 13 12:37:11 The 'big brother' LV part of the same one would. Jun 13 12:37:39 Very small movements of the phone can be picked up by either chip. Jun 13 12:37:47 *sigh* .. all i wanted to say in the beginning of this discussion basically was: everything is fine or will be. some of you are just too impatient. Jun 13 12:37:52 it can even pick up tapping on the phone. Jun 13 12:38:11 SpeedEvil the big brother of the lv takes about 80 times as much power -> no go Jun 13 12:38:17 Ah. Jun 13 12:38:23 tapping can even to the one we test Jun 13 12:38:34 roh: being impatient is common here ;-) Jun 13 12:38:37 The PIC + AD solution that I was looking at uses around the same power. Jun 13 12:38:59 SpeedEvil the LIS302DL is about 1mw Jun 13 12:39:06 Yes. Jun 13 12:40:38 and i find thats a lot. we are fighting over microwatt and microampere currents over pull up/down resistors ;) we want to have runtime, guys Jun 13 12:41:13 if you need a superstable and exact (and as well expensive) sensor. put it into your car. thats what i2c/spi and a extra irq is for Jun 13 12:42:07 roh: stupid question: so it takes 1mw all the time, not only when you measure? Jun 13 12:42:19 You can actually get the power down lower - I hadn't looked at it in detail, but I was looking at shutting down the AD part most of the time. Jun 13 12:42:32 And only having the PIC at low clock frequency on. Jun 13 12:43:05 And it wakes up occasionally, then samples, then if needed sends something over I2C Jun 13 12:43:06 aloril: think so. you can switch it off and leave the vcc_io on i think so its completely off, just does not block the bus Jun 13 12:44:00 counter Jun 13 12:44:00 http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 50%) P1: 4 days 23:15:55 (4.969±4.0 days) (1458;228) Jun 13 12:44:03 aloril: switching it off inbetween measurements will modify the result if i read the dataheet right Jun 13 12:44:16 someday the phone will arrive Jun 13 12:44:28 empty_mind not some day. quite soon. Jun 13 12:44:50 empty_mind: see counter page, there are news about potential news ;-) Jun 13 12:45:26 Plus - I was interested in possibly connecting the PIC to the mic, for extra fun. Wakeup on loud noise. Also more programmable G settings. Jun 13 12:45:37 And at lower current too. Oh well. Jun 13 12:46:09 any suggestion for gpled circuit emulation tool ? Jun 13 12:46:53 roh: yeah it sounds quite soon, unless QA reveals serious problems Jun 13 12:46:54 empty_mind is there any? i only know about spice-integration into a lot of stuff, but thats not free, is it? Jun 13 12:47:26 aloril: harald will do qa in person, so we can be shure he will find them if there are any Jun 13 12:47:30 18mG error - with a 10cm radius over 1s gives you 18cm/s velocity error - or 9cm movement, or 90 degrees out. Jun 13 12:47:51 roh: right, but if he finds, then its not anymore "soon" :-( Jun 13 12:48:31 aloril: i'm quite confident. if we weren't the factory in china would not have built so many already Jun 13 12:48:48 Still at 200ish? Jun 13 12:49:01 roh, i dont know if there is any, thats what i am asking Jun 13 12:49:16 its just the final 'rip open every 10th box to be shure we don't send out shit' Jun 13 12:49:22 it might be 500, just saying couple hundred in case there is bad yield I guess? Jun 13 12:50:01 SpeedEvil: i will not tell exact numbers, but what i see as 'want one' and hear, i'll think we will have enough so everybody who wants one gets one in time Jun 13 12:50:17 roh: so QA OK -> actual ordering could easily happen in a week? Jun 13 12:50:29 could be. dunno Jun 13 12:51:04 it happened pretty fast for P0 I think? (day or few?) Jun 13 12:51:34 of course this is different now that you must 'create' openmoko.com too (unless everything ready at that front) Jun 13 12:51:35 we do not want to say '$this day will be it' without knowing for shure it will. its just too hard to dissapoint people Jun 13 12:51:52 roh: agree here Jun 13 12:52:20 aloril: p0 was built in taiwan afaik, not the regular mass-production facility we will use now Jun 13 12:52:55 aloril: the .com is underway. when its there you will know(tm) ;) Jun 13 12:53:17 withing 15minutes everybody on this channel knows ;-) Jun 13 12:54:18 (assuming I haven't blundered somewhere) Jun 13 12:54:53 roh: So is this the facility that if all goes well, will be doing the rest? Jun 13 12:55:48 SpeedEvil it is the facility which will do the complete production for mp Jun 13 12:56:02 :) Have the LCD supply problems resolved? Jun 13 12:56:10 (fine if you can't say...) Jun 13 12:56:11 think so Jun 13 12:56:14 :) Jun 13 12:56:16 dunno, really Jun 13 12:56:51 so they can produce thousands easily as needed (assuming no parts supply problems) Jun 13 12:57:18 yes. Jun 13 12:58:42 * aloril doubts first run is enough for /. exposure Jun 13 12:59:37 its just the usual process, nothing too unusual. just in the standard-business you would never get such informations, thats why it looked like problems so often, or when we had to slip it a bit Jun 13 13:00:01 that's extra week or 2 I guess? Jun 13 13:00:42 Don't say things like that. It'll attract elephants to run over the to-be-shipped boxes or something. Jun 13 13:01:35 SpeedEvil: hehe, I meant that demand will be bigger than current supply, so some will need to wait extra week or 2 Jun 13 13:02:01 but i guess the only way is to be truthfull to you guys and hope you can understand if we cannot tell some things, either because of we do not know at that time or must not because of other reasons. Jun 13 13:02:34 roh: sure, predicting future is *HARD* ;-) Jun 13 13:03:01 * mjr nods along Jun 13 13:03:09 aloril: i know of no final date for p1. and i don't want to. final dates just generate pressure and grief if slipped, and it also looks stupid if you can do it faster. i find release when done most economic and fair for all partys Jun 13 13:03:52 roh: agree strongly Jun 13 13:04:05 yes, fair to us slaves of Sean, the capitalist swine Jun 13 13:04:28 roh: if you define date, then you would need to put extra 'buffer' Jun 13 13:04:52 aloril: i do not need to predict the future, we need to build it. thats why i work for openmoko, not because of the payment, its because i am confident to be able to contribute to a real opensource project as it should be. i'm a bit fanatic when it comes to that, so be assured we wanna do it right. Jun 13 13:06:02 mjr i know of no capitalist which would work that hard for a project which is about something so fair to the customers. Jun 13 13:06:02 * aloril believes roh and other at FIC: please don't burn yourself out (especially sean, LaF0rge, mickeyl) Jun 13 13:06:48 counter_msg http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 55%) Jun 13 13:06:48 aloril changed counter prefix message to http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 55%) Jun 13 13:06:59 * mjr joins aloril's faith; do I get a fancy title like Battle Pope? Jun 13 13:07:35 roh, yeah I'm just referring to the asshole on the community list Jun 13 13:07:40 aloril: and how should we survive you guys waiting if we would complete predating the 'safety buffer'? nooo. just no dates for me anymore. its enough pressure seeing you weep everyday for hardware. :) Jun 13 13:07:45 a clueless one, at that Jun 13 13:08:22 mjr there are a few thousand people on the ml. there are always some strange people who didn't get the idea and our reasons for doing it the way we do Jun 13 13:08:46 certainly Jun 13 13:09:14 just don't let the likes of them bring you down Jun 13 13:09:25 Having said that - it's certainly a money-making proposition for FIC if it works. Jun 13 13:09:33 there is a lot of senseless talk on some lists, but even there sometimes is a good idea. thats why i still read them and keep ignoring the irrealistic stuff only as far as needed. Jun 13 13:09:34 Which is a good thing. Jun 13 13:09:42 SpeedEvil, obviously it is. And yes, it's a good thing. Jun 13 13:10:28 I wish e-ink was cheap and readily available. Jun 13 13:10:37 it's just funny how some think it's more okay to benefit a hostile or indifferent company than a co-operative one... Jun 13 13:10:45 SpeedEvil thats the businesscase, and the only valid one in a gpl-world in my eyes (besides services) build hardware, and sell it. give out the real source for the thing. Jun 13 13:11:15 Yeah. Jun 13 13:11:17 roh: exactly, no sense for buffers in this project (unlike for iPhone ;-) Jun 13 13:11:18 roh: agree, look at Digium Jun 13 13:11:52 DukeOfURL ack, ack. thats a good example how to keep expert hackers away from you ;) Jun 13 13:12:52 aloril: i am still wondering myself over all the comparisons beeing done. we are something completely different, so... it would not be fair for the iphone *duck* Jun 13 13:13:12 hehe Jun 13 13:14:20 * aloril was thinking pretty seen after hearing iPhone news: **** they probably patented all kind of obvious inventions that we were going to do with Neo1973 Jun 13 13:15:02 how good its opensource and the hw comes from china *g* Jun 13 13:16:49 (the mp facility stands there) Jun 13 13:19:41 i just hope i have answered your questions.. ... and if you hear some strange rumours, just ask before spreading ;) Jun 13 13:20:30 well, individuals can pretty much play the usual see no evil hear no evil, but it would be sucky if FIC couldn't ship some nifty feature by default because of patents Jun 13 13:20:39 roh: I'm happy to just hear about stuff that has happened or is happening (like lafore: GTA01Bv4 phones at China, GTA02 prototype, mickeyl: doing QA now): no need to try to predict future ;-) Jun 13 13:21:31 roh: I have rumors/guesses at counter page, but hopefully I have correctly marked all of them so Jun 13 13:22:00 aloril: yeah. everybody is busy with something. there is progress and yeah. we want to answer you, just do not have unlimited time. Jun 13 13:22:50 and since there are a lot geeks involved the most productive stragegy is chosen often, work, don't chat Jun 13 13:23:07 roh: sorry, I have used way too much of your time today :-( Jun 13 13:25:16 ++roh Jun 13 13:25:19 n.p. thats what my job is. keeping communications warm between all developers, internal ones as the ones in the community. Jun 13 13:26:02 I'm sad about the fact that I don't have GPS to play with--I'm about to head off for a BioForay where I really wanted to try it out in the field... Jun 13 13:27:22 BioForay ? Jun 13 13:27:42 I'm kinda itching for GPS too, but no use buying another device for that at this point Jun 13 13:29:04 (hopefully counter page can reduce need to answer questions for newbies though) Jun 13 13:29:56 roh: is your factory in Shenzen? Jun 13 13:30:15 DukeOfURL i'm not shure, but i think so Jun 13 13:30:27 i wasn't there yet. just in taipeh Jun 13 13:30:37 my brother is there Jun 13 13:31:45 its really nice and the people are really friendly... but yet you feel like a analphabeth because of all the chinese signs :) Jun 13 13:32:05 atleast for me as a german Jun 13 13:33:12 DukeOfURL visit your brother sometime if you get the possibility, its worth it. Jun 13 13:33:35 roh: he works for Foxcon and really likes it Jun 13 13:33:46 DukeOfURL nice Jun 13 13:33:51 He's an American who is quite happy in China Jun 13 13:35:04 i'm shure he is.. i also had a smile on my face the whole day. just the social climate is very warm. even to westerners like me Jun 13 13:40:33 http://rene.rebe.name/photos/?p=/Computex/2007/&index=45 Jun 13 13:43:58 tr1: can I link to http://rene.rebe.name/photos/?p=/Computex/2007/img_2208.jpg from [[Buying_Interest_List]] page? Jun 13 13:45:26 tr1: you lack white with red border one Jun 13 13:45:51 (15:45:43) rxr: yes, link to my blog in which way you want Jun 13 13:51:05 (15:50:11) rxr: but please link to them directly Jun 13 13:51:05 (15:50:15) rxr: and not copy the images, thanks .-) Jun 13 13:52:20 tr1: you say rxr, but I assume you mean me? in that case thanks! ( going to use link I gave above ) Jun 13 13:55:23 duh, you quoted another person and relayed message ;-) Jun 13 13:56:08 yes - right sorry :-) Jun 13 13:57:06 added: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Buying_Interest_List Jun 13 14:16:56 what bootloader does openmoko use now? Jun 13 14:17:26 u-boot Jun 13 14:17:36 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Bootloader Jun 13 14:18:55 i had seen uboot was compiled, but not now. Jun 13 14:23:37 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Buying_Interest_List]] [[Application_Manager]] [[Manually_using_GSM]] [[UI_Improvements]] [[User:Lankester]] Jun 13 14:30:35 have the u-boot been modified for bad block? Jun 13 14:30:57 yes Jun 13 14:31:39 Readon: the u-boot is somewhere between the coasts of UK and france Jun 13 14:32:24 sxpert-work: between taiwan and germany rather ;) Jun 13 14:32:38 hehe Jun 13 14:39:38 openmoko: 03njp * r2240 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/applications/openmoko-dialer/src/dialer-window-dialer.c: Fixed typo, which caused the 'history' button to remain unset Jun 13 14:39:58 * Bish wants openmoko Jun 13 14:40:37 Bish, go get it openmoko is freely available...you just need the mokomakefile :D Jun 13 14:41:19 * Bish wants openmoko + neo1973 Jun 13 14:42:22 :P Jun 13 14:43:50 Sup3rkiddo: that is, if the stars are properly aligned for all the stuff to compile... Jun 13 14:44:30 sxpert-work, yeah, heard its been a bad time for pisces to do so Jun 13 14:44:36 * Sup3rkiddo is one :| Jun 13 14:51:46 counter Jun 13 14:51:47 http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 55%) P1: 4 days 21:08:09 (4.881±4.0 days) (1459;229) Jun 13 14:52:19 hmmm Jun 13 14:58:36 what about others? Jun 13 14:59:20 ? Jun 13 14:59:36 * mickey_fic somehow irritated by the ml Jun 13 14:59:57 :) Jun 13 15:00:00 is it degenerating again? Jun 13 15:00:04 there are very silly people on there. Jun 13 15:00:12 mickey_fic: concentrate on work and unsub community ML Jun 13 15:00:25 +1 Jun 13 15:00:33 +2 Jun 13 15:00:38 Or just use the handy 'ignore thread' feature. Jun 13 15:01:22 hrw: no kidding, i should. it's just disappointing. we're working our ass off here to get that company restructuration done and i need to read that we work on changing specs closed Jun 13 15:03:23 mickey_fic: people lack phones to test and talk about them so they talk about anything Jun 13 15:04:00 i know i know Jun 13 15:04:03 hrw: but then that means that the 150 phones out there need to be shown around more Jun 13 15:04:49 so.. if anybody in berlin for example wants to touch one or hack on it for a day: just come by. and i think there are more people out there who wouln't mind giving the same offer Jun 13 15:05:05 * Stephmw feels up roh's neo Jun 13 15:05:22 I can show Poky on neo if someone want (in Poznań, Poland) Jun 13 15:05:28 "You are all going to become slaves of capitalists" Jun 13 15:05:32 * koen wtfs Jun 13 15:06:04 koen hey.. that guy made my day Jun 13 15:06:46 anyone having an neo from India... Jun 13 15:06:48 ? Jun 13 15:06:57 *a neo Jun 13 15:07:38 * Sup3rkiddo guesses, no Jun 13 15:07:41 bye Jun 13 15:08:00 same goes for region Braunschweig Jun 13 15:08:14 (regarding the touching of phones :-) Jun 13 15:09:03 well like Calvin's dad says, anticipation of things makes it worthwhile when you get it :D Jun 13 15:09:49 Sup3rkiddo: it build character. ;) Jun 13 15:09:55 :P Jun 13 15:09:57 s/build/builds/ Jun 13 15:09:57 orospakr meant: Sup3rkiddo: it builds character. ;) Jun 13 15:15:16 hi, is there someone interested in giving a talk at the openexpo in zürich 19./20. of september? harald? mickey? http://www.openexpo.ch/ Jun 13 15:17:59 i know youre all busy atm .. but call for paricipation ends 15th (this friday) Jun 13 15:18:03 C7: i know the deadline for proposals is 15th, however I'm in Taiwan until 23th and may have a hard time planning Jun 13 15:18:25 C7: i may call my wife today and talk to her (left my calendar in FFM) Jun 13 15:18:32 :) Jun 13 15:20:24 C7: did we meet in Berlin or wasn't that you? Jun 13 15:21:16 mickey_fic: yes that was me Jun 13 15:21:22 cool Jun 13 15:23:03 mickey_fic: what's with the restructuring? Jun 13 15:23:55 mickey_fic: and mathias stürmer who is the guy behind openexpo Jun 13 15:24:10 .. hm booting om takes forever Jun 13 15:25:44 sorry one of the guys Jun 13 15:27:34 pjz: can't talk about that. just that OpenMoko will get more ressources very soon Jun 13 15:30:06 ? Jun 13 15:30:07 lokulin: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) Jun 13 15:30:20 quit Jun 13 15:30:37 hi Jun 13 15:31:45 looks almost like lokulin new about this trigger ;-) Jun 13 15:32:47 and I think Neo1973 was initially meant for wince too Jun 13 15:32:57 ROTFL! Jun 13 15:33:44 http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2007-June/005787.html "It was originally designed for a completely different usage scenario. Jun 13 15:34:26 Just got an SMS asking me where to get the Neo...turns out the person watched the movie I made of the Neo1973 performing a phone call Jun 13 15:35:24 hehe Jun 13 15:36:14 alphaone: moral of the story... don't use your real number :) Jun 13 15:36:26 alphaone, have you..ahem...uploaded the movie somewhere? Jun 13 15:36:30 Stephmw: He was in hurry. :) Jun 13 15:36:59 Sup3rkiddo: To the wiki, but some other uploaded it to youtoube Jun 13 15:37:08 stefan_schmidt, ping...turns out all pythonic stuff arent getting installed... Jun 13 15:37:10 cool Jun 13 15:37:17 * Sup3rkiddo goes to check em out Jun 13 15:37:53 alphaone: hehe, fun Jun 13 15:37:59 Stephmw: Yeah, seems that way. :-) Jun 13 15:39:31 Sup3rkiddo: btw, I had no time for your recipe yesterday. Sorry. Hopefully have a look tonight Jun 13 15:39:55 stefan_schmidt, np, take your time...i will see from my side as well Jun 13 15:46:57 hi Jun 13 15:50:49 does the kernel lock-up for someone other than me when the wake up from suspend is triggered by unplugging USB? Jun 13 16:07:40 gtg cu Jun 13 16:08:11 stefan_schmidt, ping, Jun 13 16:08:27 Sup3rkiddo: pong Jun 13 16:08:56 tennis Jun 13 16:09:06 stefan_schmidt, double fault Jun 13 16:10:02 stefan_schmidt, sorry for the ping, but this thing suddenly struck me...we dont add python to task-openmoko.bb, but it got installed in the final build..all i had to do was add the package name to local.conf... Jun 13 16:10:41 so if i am not mistaken, can it be something else? Jun 13 16:13:32 Sup3rkiddo: I fear I can't follow you. We don't have python in our default devel-image, have we? And waht did you add to your local.conf? Jun 13 16:14:24 stefan_schmidt, i have "python" and my app-name in the DISTRO_EXTRA_RDEPENDS Jun 13 16:14:53 stefan_schmidt, i am able to get the python interpreter..i just copied over the recipes and put them in oe/packages Jun 13 16:15:15 and of course make openmoko-devel-image handled the rest Jun 13 16:17:14 my point is, i didnt have to add python to task-openmoko.bb. but she got installed successfully in the build Jun 13 16:17:20 Sup3rkiddo: And the effect is what? python and your app are now in the default devel-image? Jun 13 16:17:47 stefan_schmidt, only python is..not my app..any app depending on python for that matter Jun 13 16:18:30 i tried installing python-pygoogle which is already present in the OE tree as well..but it isnt getting installed either Jun 13 16:19:17 Sup3rkiddo: hmm, ok. I need to test this later. No time atm Jun 13 16:19:30 stefan_schmidt, sure.....thanks Jun 13 16:23:37 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Translation]] [[User:RafaelCarreras]] [[Buying_Interest_List]] Jun 13 16:53:36 (script) planet: Holger "zecke" Freyther: Call for Participation http://zecke.blogspot.com/2007/06/call-for-participation.html Jun 13 17:07:42 openmoko: 03andrew * r2241 10/trunk/src/host/qemu-neo1973/gnokiigsm/at-emulator.c: Use modem identification strings from GTA01Bv4. Jun 13 17:09:20 openmoko: 03andrew * r2242 10/trunk/src/host/qemu-neo1973/ (7 files in 2 dirs): Add a primitive bluetooth subsystem (there are no bluetooth slaves yet, only an HCI). Jun 13 17:11:03 openmoko: 03andrew * r2243 10/trunk/src/host/qemu-neo1973/hw/ (bt-hci.c bt.h usb-bt.c): Add new files forgotten from last commit. Jun 13 17:33:15 * k-s[WORK] is away: lunch... Jun 13 17:53:05 Is it me, or has the spam on the wiki gotten less? Jun 13 17:53:10 ya Jun 13 17:53:18 Laf0rge installed something Jun 13 17:53:21 Hi mickey_fic btw! :) Jun 13 17:53:29 hi Jun 13 17:53:43 I hope that "something" does not stop useful work. :) Jun 13 17:55:39 i don't think so Jun 13 17:55:44 just some account checks i think Jun 13 17:59:07 We'll see. I'll surely file a bug, if something is b0rked now. ;o) Jun 13 17:59:18 But at least it looks way better now. :) Jun 13 18:03:28 counter Jun 13 18:03:29 http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 55%) P1: 4 days 17:56:27 (4.748±4.0 days) (1460;229) Jun 13 18:23:37 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Main_Page/ru]] [[User:Nes]] [[Translation]] Jun 13 19:11:24 clear Jun 13 19:14:52 Permission denied Jun 13 20:24:36 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Wish_List]] [[Development_resources]] Jun 13 20:39:12 Does openmoko-messages work for anyone? Jun 13 20:47:35 hey guys 01,08:04) Jun 13 20:47:43 cute Jun 13 20:47:58 any release date? Jun 13 20:47:58 Skull_Death: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) Jun 13 20:48:21 Elrond: define works Jun 13 20:48:37 Elrond: runs? allow to send sms? allow to read sms? Jun 13 20:48:54 starts. Jun 13 20:48:55 omfg Jun 13 20:48:58 this is fuckin' awesome Jun 13 20:49:11 Elrond: I lack up to date build now Jun 13 20:49:24 When I start it from ssh (set DISPLAY and DBUS-thingy appropiately), I get a segv. Jun 13 20:49:34 any developer here? Jun 13 20:49:34 hrw - My rootfs is old too. Jun 13 20:49:45 Skull_Death - developer of what? Jun 13 20:49:48 ... for what? Jun 13 20:49:51 ... for what need? Jun 13 20:49:55 i mean Jun 13 20:50:00 official... Jun 13 20:50:17 any official dev here? Jun 13 20:50:38 I am official BitBake developer, official OpenEmbedded developer Jun 13 20:50:54 also Poky official developer and few other things will be possible to find too Jun 13 20:50:56 :D Jun 13 20:50:59 Skull_Death: hang on there, you can't just call them out, ou have to coax them out with tasty treats Jun 13 20:51:37 except for hrw who'll roll over at the mention of something techie Jun 13 20:51:49 * Stephmw pats hrw fondly Jun 13 20:52:10 He's hopefully not going to ask for official support for european electrons? ;o)) Jun 13 20:52:28 (*remembers this official bla thing on community*) Jun 13 20:52:31 i'm not european x) Jun 13 20:53:23 Skull_Death - Why don't you just ask? Jun 13 20:53:32 i'm just asking Jun 13 20:53:44 where r them Jun 13 20:53:49 u guys looks like stupid kids Jun 13 20:54:09 Skull_Death: so do you Jun 13 20:54:10 What are you intending in here? Jun 13 20:54:24 * stefan_schmidt seems to be a stupid kid. :D Jun 13 20:54:25 i'll not start a discussion Jun 13 20:54:41 nice Jun 13 20:54:43 i discovered it today.. i'm excited ok? Jun 13 20:54:56 Skull_Death - Ahhh. Jun 13 20:55:27 Skull_Death - The super-uber-official people are busy working. Jun 13 20:55:35 ok Jun 13 20:55:38 then just say it Jun 13 20:55:40 i was just asking Jun 13 20:55:45 Elrond: nah, I'm just tired. ;) Jun 13 20:56:58 Elrond: And .tw is sleeping as it is 5am there Jun 13 20:57:01 stefan_schmidt - You're not on the super-uber-official list at http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Meet_the_Core_Team anyway ;o)))) Jun 13 20:57:16 Warning: No merge candidate found because value of config option "branch.master.merge" does not match any remote branch fetched. Jun 13 20:57:23 I love that git message Jun 13 20:57:33 Elrond: damn, that means I had to add myself. ;) Jun 13 20:57:38 it give so good information Jun 13 20:58:07 stefan_schmidt: I heard everyone in .tw works 26 hours a day, shouldn't they still be at it? Jun 13 20:58:13 does u guys know how can i join it? i want to be part of the translation Jun 13 20:59:03 Stephmw: hmm, good point Jun 13 20:59:05 Skull_Death - Check http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Translation and http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Translation_HOWTO Jun 13 21:00:24 nice nice nice Jun 13 21:01:21 stefan_schmidt - *asking someone super-uber-official* (Looking at ) So for what usage scenario was the GTA01 originally designed? ;-) Jun 13 21:02:38 Elrond: Just another wince smartphone IIRC. But the came OpenMoko and kicked them away. Jun 13 21:02:51 * stefan_schmidt thinks its time for him to sleep Jun 13 21:03:49 stefan_schmidt - Hmm, "usage scenario" sounds more like "for phone", "for geeks", or so. not like "what OS is running on it". Jun 13 21:04:43 Elrond: I just know about the other software not the usage sorry. Jun 13 21:06:36 stefan_schmidt - So you're not as super-uber-official, it seems. ;o))) :-) Jun 13 21:06:53 (Sorry, couldn't resist) Jun 13 21:07:09 i'm in Jun 13 21:07:11 01,08:04D Jun 13 21:07:28 Elrond: That reduces it to Sean it seems. Not even Mickey and Harald know it it seems. Jun 13 21:07:39 Anyway off to bed. Night guys Jun 13 21:07:49 cya, stefan Jun 13 21:08:35 Good night stefan_schmidt, sleep well. :-) Jun 13 21:08:46 Skull_Death: colors and blinking on irc was popular 10 years ago Jun 13 21:09:39 Huh, really... colors... *disabling colors again* Jun 13 21:10:47 <_llll_> someone with ops might want to set the appropriate channel mode to block colors (+c i believe) Jun 13 21:11:42 hrw this is internet Jun 13 21:11:52 things never go unpopular Jun 13 21:12:17 Okay... then: "color is unpopular in this channel" ;-) Jun 13 21:12:44 i saw no rules Jun 13 21:12:47 01,08:04) Jun 13 21:15:28 ppl, i don't want fights Jun 13 21:15:30 unless you stop using them you will be unpopular here aswell Jun 13 21:17:25 Skull_Death: and you are also the one which use graphical emoticons in mails and IM chats? Jun 13 21:17:58 hrw - BTW: Does the gsm modem work in anyway without a sim? Jun 13 21:18:05 did not tried Jun 13 21:18:14 should works rather Jun 13 21:18:25 hrw - Both your Neos have sims? Jun 13 21:20:36 Ahh, it's there. :-) Jun 13 21:20:52 both Jun 13 21:21:13 Elrond: both prepaid ones from misc networks Jun 13 21:22:05 :-) Jun 13 21:23:15 Okay... it seems recommended to start gsmd once and stop it. :-) Jun 13 21:23:25 (I have disabled gsmd at boot time) Jun 13 21:30:15 openmoko building reminds me why I do not want to look at bitbake 1.6 Jun 13 21:37:30 hrw ;-) Jun 13 21:37:39 Which reminds me to build pygtk for pavelm. Jun 13 21:41:34 ah pavelm.. Jun 13 21:42:31 * hrw upgrades neo to recent soft Jun 13 21:43:25 Let me know, how openmoko-messages works.. Jun 13 21:51:27 Elrond: segfault Jun 13 21:52:18 (openmoko-messages:1144): Gtk-WARNING **: gtk_scrolled_window_add(): cannot add non scrollable widget use gtk_scrolled_window_add_with_viewport() instead Jun 13 21:52:21 Segmentation fault Jun 13 21:52:24 Jun 13 21:52:24 That's, what I get. Jun 13 21:52:33 yes Jun 13 21:52:54 Okay. I'll put the -dbg on the phone and see, if I can find out, what's going on. Jun 13 22:00:11 yuck. gtk+-dbg is large. Jun 13 22:01:21 contacts app has useless import/export menu entries Jun 13 22:02:00 Are you surprised? ;-) Jun 13 22:03:23 it depends Jun 13 22:03:51 I know that many apps are not finished or are just 'running mockups; Jun 13 22:04:54 Yeah. Jun 13 22:05:00 Or non-running. Jun 13 22:05:06 ... gdb's BT looks strange. Jun 13 22:05:17 one thing that would definitely get a lot of apps started would be ready scripting language bindings Jun 13 22:05:35 i know they might be slow as hell and unusable, but there would at least be something Jun 13 22:05:42 guaqua - My box builds pygtk just now. Jun 13 22:06:19 and a lot of ui stuff could be solved before implementing the software in c Jun 13 22:06:52 #0 gtk_hbox_size_request Jun 13 22:07:00 #1 0x40034940 in moko_tree_view_size_request Jun 13 22:07:09 #2 0x40b2d01c in g_cclosure_marshal_VOID__BOXED Jun 13 22:07:30 There's no reason, why a marshalling function should call moko_tree_view_size_request Jun 13 22:24:31 what would be the preferred way to start trying out alternative input methods? Jun 13 22:24:37 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[User:Skull_Death]] [[Wishlist:Expansion_Back]] [[Translation]] Jun 13 22:24:55 should for example cairo be used for drawing or how? Jun 13 22:30:12 guaqua - I think, for the first try, everything is allowed. :-) Jun 13 22:30:37 guaqua - Just try to be a little generic enough to be able to fixup later. :) Jun 13 22:31:07 i'm going to very generic since i'm also learning cairo in the process Jun 13 22:31:13 and gui programming in general :) Jun 13 22:32:37 guaqua: Well, we'll gladly answer any cairo questions you've got here. :-) Jun 13 22:32:45 (Or, over in #cairo) Jun 13 22:33:35 i'll have to get started first...better step on the mines and actually get to know the turf, documentation and all before occupying others :) Jun 13 22:33:41 guaqua: I'll look forward to seeing some cairo-rendered input methods, (I haven't written a custom input method for a handheld since before we made cairo). Jun 13 22:37:35 off to sleep now. more tomorrow :) Jun 13 23:11:25 Okay... openmoko-messages leaves some b0rked GList in a hbox. I have no idea, how one can do someting that strange. Jun 14 02:25:36 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Press_Coverage]] Jun 14 02:35:42 i edited it. Jun 14 02:40:15 morning Jun 14 02:42:02 morning mickey_fic Jun 14 02:42:21 it's nice to see you in a roughly similar timezone :-) Jun 14 02:42:54 hehe, yeah Jun 14 02:42:59 what Jun 14 02:43:02 's your time? Jun 14 02:43:12 12:10pm - lunch :-) Jun 14 02:44:13 ah -- interesting. so just one hour away Jun 14 02:44:36 yep Jun 14 02:44:50 hmm - you're not on a :30 timezone too are you? Jun 14 02:45:01 no, 10:45 here Jun 14 02:45:10 i didnt know these exist Jun 14 02:45:11 funny Jun 14 02:45:16 right - 1:30 difference Jun 14 02:45:30 regarding OE and OpenMoko, did you see my plans in #oe? Jun 14 02:46:00 no, when was that (I'll check the logs) Jun 14 02:46:11 nevermind. i restate here: so the plan is to feed everything non-intrusive back into .dev in the next 2 weeks. Jun 14 02:46:20 then test a bit Jun 14 02:46:22 and branch off Jun 14 02:46:34 a real monotone branch? Jun 14 02:46:34 syncing regularly and giving some OE folks access to the OM branch Jun 14 02:46:43 yes, a monotone branch Jun 14 02:46:56 to enable us throwing patches forth and back Jun 14 02:47:12 nod Jun 14 02:47:26 has the patch throwing between branches been tested by anyone? Jun 14 02:47:41 yes, i think hrw has some experience with that from the oz354 days Jun 14 02:47:59 bbiab - sounds good so far Jun 14 02:48:04 bon appetit :) **** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Jun 14 02:59:57 2007