**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Jun 15 02:59:56 2007 Jun 15 04:26:58 * * OM Bug 607 has been created by roh(AT)openmoko.org Jun 15 04:26:59 * * flash.sh stalls Jun 15 04:27:00 * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=607 Jun 15 04:48:24 ImportError: No module named bb Jun 15 04:50:22 what has changed in recent days? Jun 15 04:50:22 i can't build my openmoko now Jun 15 05:42:14 heya Jun 15 05:42:29 Mornin Jun 15 06:17:30 morning Jun 15 06:28:30 Readon: your bitbake installation got broken Jun 15 06:39:29 hrmm... any updates on when i can give my $350 Jun 15 06:39:30 lol Jun 15 06:39:55 i keep seen iPhone advertisements and i want to devel my openmoko to be even cooler ;-) Jun 15 06:40:27 get both :P Jun 15 06:40:52 If I can come up with the money, I will probably do something along that line Jun 15 06:41:09 OpenMoko development seems very tempting Jun 15 06:41:10 daMaestro: possibly news any day now Jun 15 06:41:31 meh.. i don't want to spend any money on the iPhone Jun 15 06:41:50 their dev kit consists of "oh .. just use safari and all the neat new web 2.0 technologies!" Jun 15 06:41:50 lol Jun 15 06:41:56 blah. Jun 15 06:42:01 closed. platform. Jun 15 06:42:06 yeah, I am a bit disappointed there Jun 15 06:42:24 Hopefully Apple will at least do a "select" dev program Jun 15 06:42:35 get your app certified sort of thing Jun 15 06:45:35 supposedly QA has been done by now Jun 15 06:46:04 yeah.. i really just want a phase 2 device now Jun 15 06:46:05 lol Jun 15 06:46:24 but i'm willing to buy a phase 1 device to play with if i get some sort of decent discount on the upgrade Jun 15 06:47:05 anyone know what media management software is slated? Jun 15 06:47:25 i assume something light such as listen would run? Jun 15 06:47:41 * daMaestro has not done much research... Jun 15 06:47:55 i'll just get too excited and waste time reading every single spec on the hardware, etc Jun 15 06:49:23 aloril: I updated you wiki-counter-message this morning Jun 15 06:49:27 counter Jun 15 06:49:28 http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 55%) P1: 3 days 14:35:14 (3.608±3.6 days) (1472;228) Jun 15 06:50:22 Not much, but at least that Harald is back tomorrow, hopefully with good news. :) Jun 15 06:50:42 CM: thanks Jun 15 06:51:05 From 04:11 this morning :) Jun 15 06:52:26 so its 1 more day more than I though, news today seems unlikely then Jun 15 07:02:11 anyone having problems with flashinglately Jun 15 07:05:42 Sup3rkiddo on qemu or at real hardware? Jun 15 07:06:06 roh, on qemu...flashing the local image Jun 15 07:06:14 thats a bit broken Jun 15 07:06:19 getting a timeout Jun 15 07:06:47 hmmm....think a bug should be filed? Jun 15 07:08:24 use a qemu from before r2198 Jun 15 07:08:48 i already files a bug. you can also compile a new qemu without unbusy-i2c.patch Jun 15 07:08:52 good morning Jun 15 07:09:16 roh, oo....can you tell me how can i revert back to an older qemu..? Jun 15 07:10:06 Superkiddo: just move all newer versions out of build/tmp/deploy/images/ Jun 15 07:11:43 oh ok....but the older guys have the problem as well....built from scratch yesterday Jun 15 07:11:59 Sup3rkiddo if you don't have older builds flying around,take the 2157 from http://buildhost.openmoko.org/tmp/deploy/images/ Jun 15 07:12:30 these should work. 2157 is the one before the change Jun 15 07:12:54 roh, but i have some modification to the build... Jun 15 07:13:15 to u-boot? Jun 15 07:13:26 roh..ok..no..i get it nm Jun 15 07:13:28 *now Jun 15 07:18:37 So, I take it that OpenMoko can be run in qemu then? Jun 15 07:19:39 dkirker, yup Jun 15 07:19:56 I am looking at the Wiki, are there any good instructions? Jun 15 07:20:16 dkirker, wiki is as good it gets :) Jun 15 07:20:21 *as Jun 15 07:20:41 ok, I'll poke around. Jun 15 07:21:15 I am working on a mobile browsing/messaging/synchronization client core, and I am now very interested in porting it to the OpenMoko platform. Jun 15 07:21:44 roh, works like a charm...thamk you Jun 15 07:21:47 *thank Jun 15 07:22:21 hi jserv2 Jun 15 07:23:20 Sup3rkiddo: ok, I am seeing instructions and links now! Thanks! :) Jun 15 07:23:34 HTH :D Jun 15 07:25:57 morning Jun 15 07:26:13 morning Jun 15 07:26:16 counter Jun 15 07:26:17 http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 55%) P1: 3 days 14:16:49 (3.595±3.6 days) (1473;228) Jun 15 07:36:41 openmoko: 03mickey * r2264 10/trunk/oe/packages/ (24 files in 11 dirs): oe: add infrastructure tweaking to make core fonts display w/ kdrive Jun 15 07:40:33 counter? Jun 15 07:40:33 "/msg aloril counter?" for actual long message, giving short version here: http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 55%) P1: 3 days 14:09:41 (3.590±3.6 days) (1474;228) Jun 15 07:57:19 CM: added 2 other items from IRC too (still catching up on logs) Jun 15 07:57:41 aloril: Nice work, I like that counter page Jun 15 07:57:47 Good to have when you're busy for a few days Jun 15 07:58:19 CM: thanks, what I'm most worried is that somebody takes rumor/guess too seriously Jun 15 07:59:04 what? like demanding that i should have been able to buy a device .01 days ago! ... aloril Jun 15 07:59:04 lol Jun 15 08:00:11 daMaestro: hehe, more like reading "Guess: some foo feature for bar device" and then assuming that .. Jun 15 08:00:27 ahh Jun 15 08:00:48 yea.. i really want phase 2.. but i am going to get a phase 1 device to see what applications i can port over Jun 15 08:01:02 so what package management is planned? Jun 15 08:01:19 is it something homebrew? is there even one? Jun 15 08:01:31 does anyone have a spare device...send it to me...pleeeeaase Jun 15 08:01:36 "P Jun 15 08:01:55 Anyone can buy for $350 starting perhaps any week now Jun 15 08:02:04 so can I already buy one device? Jun 15 08:02:11 is it stable yet? Jun 15 08:02:28 I had a bad experience with qtopia greenphones... Jun 15 08:02:33 am not sure about the stability part Jun 15 08:03:04 Zenton: you can get OpenMoko now, device hopefully soon Jun 15 08:03:10 faq? Jun 15 08:03:10 See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ Jun 15 08:03:16 thanks aloril Jun 15 08:03:28 (has links to OpenMoko, etc..) Jun 15 08:04:37 daMaestro: It uses ipkg Jun 15 08:06:17 Zenton: hardware or software problems? Jun 15 08:06:36 mostly hardware Jun 15 08:06:53 batteries gave up working. Jun 15 08:07:40 Zenton: for Neo1973 you can use ubiquitous Nokia batteries too (model is mentioned in Wiki somewhere) Jun 15 08:08:05 so even if Neo1973 has similar problems, you can cheaply get replacements ;-) Jun 15 08:08:18 aloril: I gonna buy a Neo1973 as soon as I can. Jun 15 08:08:29 -"- Jun 15 08:14:01 the problem with BL-5C is that they currently don't charge in the Neo Jun 15 08:14:08 so you need something like DT14 or so Jun 15 08:14:21 (Nokia standalone battery charger) Jun 15 08:14:38 i don't know whether this is a hardware limitation or something that could be fixed in software Jun 15 08:21:35 CM, so.. is there such think as a "repo" or "source" for ipkg's? Jun 15 08:26:17 mickey_fic: thanks, updated http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973_Battery Jun 15 08:27:19 another option for on the road additional energy: http://www.ladyada.net/make/mintyboost/ Jun 15 08:27:34 as far as I know, what is needed in addition to above: Jun 15 08:28:10 that's fun Jun 15 08:28:21 1) configure Neo1973 to charge using 500mAh instead of default 100mAh (just run suitable software I assume) Jun 15 08:28:46 2) suitable cable (maybe comes with Neo1973 already?) Jun 15 08:29:31 UI question: what's your preferred position of short-lived OSD text messages? Jun 15 08:29:38 center, bottom, top? Jun 15 08:29:43 left aligned, center, right aligned? Jun 15 08:29:49 kick-ass large / small? Jun 15 08:29:57 [as in font] Jun 15 08:30:02 right-bottom-small Jun 15 08:30:33 *right-top Jun 15 08:31:35 CM, something like "yum repo" or "apt source" for ipkg? Jun 15 08:31:43 i just briefly read about it Jun 15 08:35:16 bottom-left-big (just the opposite in every way ;-) Jun 15 08:35:44 mickey_fic: Do you know how long can the device stay on with a charged battery ?? (lcd, ts, cpu etc on, but not phoning) Jun 15 08:36:39 mickey_fic: top, right aligned (e.g. this way I have "Konversation" configured if you do "schurig: BLAH") Jun 15 08:37:02 aloril: eh.. doesn't this schematic only provide 5V 100mA? Jun 15 08:37:06 schurig: I had the p0 running for about 20000 seconds at full backlight brightness, writing to microsd every 10 seconds Jun 15 08:37:06 daMaestro: cat /etc/ipkg.conf :-) Jun 15 08:37:10 schurig: gta01 3 to 4 hours or so Jun 15 08:37:17 mickey_fic: I know you are busy, but once you (==FIC in general) are not that busy: maybe something like mintyboost but one that can also act as USB hub (giving power) to 1-4 devices (I remember Sean mentioning plans about something like this some time ago in ML) Jun 15 08:37:19 schurig: we never measured that Jun 15 08:37:48 pH5: that's 13 hours. Not bad. Jun 15 08:38:01 pH5: really??? Jun 15 08:38:02 pH5: with LCD auto-dimmed? (which is OK, common use case) Jun 15 08:38:22 roh: no, but I think Neo1973 by default won't draw more than 100mAh -> thus need to have software where this is overridden (mintyboost needs some changes to so that Neo1973 knows it can draw 500mAh like newer Neo1973 charges has I think) Jun 15 08:38:26 pH5: ah, sorry, you wrote "full backlight brightness", confused your entry with mickey_fic .... Jun 15 08:38:27 schurig: that's 5.5 hours, no backlight dimming, but the cpu was idle most of the time Jun 15 08:39:02 aloril: i know there's demand. once gta01 is out, gta02 is further, we start thinking about peripherals Jun 15 08:39:03 aloril: sadly to say, it draws more. it even discharges the battery when only fed with 100 Jun 15 08:39:26 with everything on and on full power Jun 15 08:39:28 schurig, i don't have a device or a devel env (virtual) setup Jun 15 08:39:32 schurig, :-/ Jun 15 08:40:05 mickey_fic: http://www.flickr.com/photos/ph5/422949345/ Jun 15 08:40:40 mickey_fic: hehe, some of your problems sound like our (early) problems with Ramses or RT4000 :-) Jun 15 08:41:42 mickey_fic: because we had the same problem: device turned on, put in the docking cradle or vehicle dock, and yet the battery was slowly discharged. Our hardware guy fixed this a week later :-) Jun 15 08:42:21 mickey_fic: but (I've seen the schematics), we have a VERY complicated analog part for power. Lots of individual component, no charging controller IC or so. Jun 15 08:43:37 schurig: when the usb does not speak usb but only provides power a usb device is not allowed to draw more power than 100mA . when your device draws more you cannot do anything besides violating the usb standart. thats why we use a id pin now to detect dumb loaders able to supply 500mA Jun 15 08:44:08 roh: maybe that's the reason why now in the Linux kernel is a dummy USB charger driver Jun 15 08:44:28 pH5: nice! Jun 15 08:45:07 roh: see CONFIG_USB_BERRY_CHARGE in 2.6.21 Jun 15 08:46:01 schurig oh.. didn't see that. the moko is been detected as usb-acm in uboot and as cdc-ethernet when the kernel is up. afaik linux supplies every device, if a driver is loaded or not woth 500mA if it asks nicely. windows doesnt. it even poweres off ports actively to enforce that Jun 15 08:47:07 pH5, you guys have all the fun...mwaaaa Jun 15 08:47:17 roh: hmm, this (black)berry usb charge driver is somewhat different. It sends an via USB a command to the device. "The device will then reset itself with the new power usage and should start charging" Jun 15 08:48:33 http://git.kernel.org/gitweb.cgi?p=linux/kernel/git/torvalds/linux-2.6.git;a=blob;f=drivers/usb/misc/berry_charge.c Jun 15 08:50:31 roh: you mean that even if I configure Neo1973 to draw 500mAh, mintyboost won't give it (ie.. it only will give max 100mAh)? Jun 15 08:51:18 roh: ie.. even if same kind of 'id pin' was added to mintyboost? Jun 15 08:52:34 aloril at least thats what the schematics and text say as far as i have read Jun 15 08:53:09 aloril: then the moko will draw more power and propably overload the booster which in the best case just goes off Jun 15 08:53:49 good morning Jun 15 08:54:55 hmm.. saw mention of 200mAh there too, would that be enough to use Neo1973? Jun 15 08:55:30 * CM adds another vote to the small upper right corner OSD popups Jun 15 08:55:43 ah, faq says up to 250mA+: http://www.ladyada.net/make/mintyboost/faq.html Jun 15 08:56:30 aloril: it could keep it on, but not really charge anything much, if the voltage keeps high enough at all Jun 15 08:56:57 daMaestro: Sorry, don't know. Haven't even used ipkg myself yet Jun 15 08:59:38 roh: OK, anyway I don't see any other option for "additional usage" when not near power outlet (except to get extra batteries, but I think this needs powering Neo1973 down and I dislike rebooting) Jun 15 08:59:49 well.. charge it from laptop ;-) Jun 15 09:02:30 openmoko: 03mickey * r2265 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/openmoko-libs/ (ChangeLog libmokoui/moko-banner.c): libmokoui/moko-banner.c: tweak look and feel Jun 15 09:03:04 aloril: hehe.. guess what i use as charger for my motorola :) Jun 15 09:03:41 CM, i'm going to look at porting rpms to ipkg and doing mass builds of fedora based packages Jun 15 09:04:05 ok, for now I'll leave the OSD centered, but what I've heard from you means it needs to be configurable anyway ;) Jun 15 09:04:08 too many tastes Jun 15 09:04:26 mickey_fic: yes, please :) Jun 15 09:13:35 LaF0rge: is anybody currently working on SMS functionality in gsmd? Jun 15 09:15:15 is there any easy way to check if my notebook outputs 100 or 500ma on usb ports? Jun 15 09:17:14 mickey_fic, so.. where can i send my money? Jun 15 09:17:17 :-P Jun 15 09:20:55 mickey_fic: maybe it doesn't need to be configurable Jun 15 09:21:12 mickey_fic: my preference came from a desktop system, the Neo1973 LCD is much smaller Jun 15 09:26:41 pH5: it's currently on hold -- however there shouldn't be much to add according to LaF0rge. would you like to have a look? Jun 15 09:26:56 aloril: you can still use something like this http://www.maxim-ic.com/quick_view2.cfm/qv_pk/1831 Jun 15 09:27:04 just a bit more power Jun 15 09:30:33 mickey_fic: yes, I've seen the stubs in sms_cb.c and the four list/read/send/write commands in libgsmd-tool. But I'm not sure how it is supposed to be wired together. Jun 15 09:38:05 hmm, I can't get the dialer to display the moko stock icons. I have installed the openmoko-icon-theme - where do I make sure that it is selected by gtk? Jun 15 09:46:08 roh: yeah, looks enough, I guess would require new PCB and possibly other changes though Jun 15 09:54:47 pH5 - BTW: my python thingy got hh-packet-dumping (like your decode.sh) and LE uint32 dumping yesterday ;o) I hope to play with one channel this evening. ;) Jun 15 09:58:35 Elrond: I'm looking forward to it :) Jun 15 10:00:58 * * OM Bug 608 has been created by stefan(AT)openmoko.org Jun 15 10:00:59 * * Kdrive does not supprt option -pf and failed to start Jun 15 10:01:01 * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=608 Jun 15 10:01:49 * LuitvD is off for some CoD Jun 15 10:18:57 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Wishlist:Text_Input]] [[UI_Improvements]] [[Neo1973_Battery]] Jun 15 10:21:58 * * OM Bug 609 has been created by stefan(AT)openmoko.org Jun 15 10:21:59 * * Kdrive does not supprt option -pf and failed to start Jun 15 10:22:01 * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=609 Jun 15 11:04:52 morning all Jun 15 11:08:56 have anybody normal icons in "Today" app (running in qemu)? Jun 15 11:24:33 Hello, everyone. Jun 15 11:25:10 Is there some way to make openmoko ring on incoming call? I see a dialog, but no sound :-( Jun 15 11:28:11 pavelm: there should be special alsa setting Jun 15 11:28:17 somewhere.... Jun 15 11:31:37 magon: aplay produces sound... so speaker seems set up correctly. Jun 15 11:32:07 magon: and it does not vibrate, either. Jun 15 11:35:16 pavelm, maybe this will help http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Manually_using_GSM#Dialling_an_outgoing_call Jun 15 11:40:13 anykey: I'd need "playing sound on incoming call" :-) Jun 15 11:42:03 hey have you lookedat it? Jun 15 11:42:42 s/lookedat/looked at Jun 15 11:42:52 Hi pavelm! :) Jun 15 11:43:05 any: yep. Can't parse libgsm-tool because it buffers its output :-( Jun 15 11:43:10 hi, elrond! Jun 15 11:43:47 pavelm, great :-( Jun 15 11:44:11 elrond: any news? Has your compiling machine finally died because of too much work? ;-) Jun 15 11:44:16 pavelm - BTW pygtk: This means compiling X11R7.3... I stopped that. I suggest you file a wishlist bug on bugzilla.openmoko.org and ask for pygtk. Usually that works. Jun 15 11:44:41 elrond: ok, will do. Jun 15 11:44:42 pavelm - News: My hammerhead python thingy slowly progresses. ;) Jun 15 11:45:11 elrond: wow.., do you get some interesting communication? Jun 15 11:47:36 pavelm - I start to, yes. I just finished the packet extractor-and-dumper yesterday. When I'm getting home today, I'll try to send the basic setup sequence and play with one channel. ;) Jun 15 11:50:16 pavelm - A quick-simple build-for-host script and intro on the wiki is also on my list for today. And finally de-b0rking openmoko-messages ;o) Jun 15 11:50:20 elrond: good luck. Jun 15 11:50:51 I don't know, what I will really do. ;) Jun 15 11:51:05 * pavelm wonders if it would be fun to place packet-modifier between hammerhead and its driver. Slightly tweaking messages and see what happens :-) Jun 15 11:51:09 Anyway. I am supposed to do "real work" now. ;o) Jun 15 11:51:39 so what's this openmoko phone thing ? phones for geeks who want to compile their own software on it ? lol Jun 15 11:52:48 voidwalker: Taiwaneese way of freeing themselves from Nokia control? :-) Jun 15 11:52:55 voidwalker - Currently: Yes. In half a year, it'll hopefully a normal phine which just happens to run opensource software. And which normal people can update just. (and install new software) Jun 15 11:53:10 oh, but don't we already have those ? Jun 15 11:53:16 symbian is not that ? Jun 15 11:53:35 Can you _fully_ control the hardware on a symbian phone? Jun 15 11:53:51 void: Symbian is still nokia's slave :-) Jun 15 11:53:51 i dunno, i never had one Jun 15 11:53:55 oh ok Jun 15 11:54:08 void: Plus symbian does not work. Jun 15 11:54:23 I have no idea on symbian. Jun 15 11:54:34 well it would be cool if this phone had wifi, gps, large memory+memory card, so it can play mp3s, videos etc Jun 15 11:55:00 voidwalker - The mass market version will have exactly all that. Jun 15 11:55:16 at least from current planning. Jun 15 11:55:27 so you don't have to carry a pda, a phone, and an mp3 player Jun 15 11:55:38 I have to go, sorry. Jun 15 11:55:40 bye bye. Jun 15 11:56:34 Yep. And I need to do "real work". Jun 15 11:56:37 Laters. Jun 15 11:56:41 hng, I wish gsmd had the multiline reply support already. it still throws away most of the CMGL, CMGR, etc. answers Jun 15 11:57:32 ;o open source gsm software ? Jun 15 11:57:34 awesome Jun 15 11:57:50 hey, won't this open new ways to hackers who want to cheat the phone company ? Jun 15 11:57:59 the GSM stack is not open Jun 15 11:58:20 well then bye bye free phone concept ;p Jun 15 11:58:23 voidwalker: the gsm stack itself is encapsulated in the gsm chip, we can only talk AT to it. Jun 15 11:58:24 it's on a separate chip, the OpenMoko system accesses it through a serial line Jun 15 11:58:28 oh Jun 15 11:58:48 voidwalker: depends if you want to be able to use it with the GSM network or not :P Jun 15 11:58:54 i don't really know that much about gsm, is the technology closed ? Jun 15 11:58:59 it's suboptimal wrt. freedom, but the best one can do at the moment Jun 15 11:59:47 i mean, what's stopping from making it fully open on this phone ? Jun 15 12:01:14 Playback. Maybe recording Jun 15 12:01:17 only maybe ? Jun 15 12:01:22 First that it's an off-the-shelf GSM chip (or close to it) they got. Jun 15 12:01:43 Second that there are no free GSM stacks and writing one would be a major undertaking. Jun 15 12:01:53 Third that yes, laws are in the way. Jun 15 12:02:32 oi Jun 15 12:02:55 is there still any chance the phase1 phones will be released before mass marketing? :( Jun 15 12:03:03 hell yes Jun 15 12:03:18 i mean like - mass marketing is said to start in around 5 months Jun 15 12:03:36 "is said" Jun 15 12:03:48 Is there any news concerning FCC certification of the Neo? Jun 15 12:04:12 i mean like - whats the reason p1 is delayed that much anyway? Jun 15 12:04:19 does anybody know something? Jun 15 12:04:28 (except sean who doesnt say anything ... at least it seems :P) Jun 15 12:04:47 DukeOfURL: no leaks from the FCC at least Jun 15 12:05:00 they're usually the first ones to blush Jun 15 12:08:38 only 2 buttons ? Jun 15 12:08:54 only 2 buttons Jun 15 12:08:58 and a biiig faaat touchscreen Jun 15 12:09:16 2.8" is not that big Jun 15 12:09:33 get smaller fingers Jun 15 12:09:46 that's a fair cop Jun 15 12:12:31 uh oh Jun 15 12:12:34 it says AGPS Jun 15 12:12:38 not GPS Jun 15 12:12:52 will that work just as well ? Jun 15 12:12:59 will the phone have a gps antenna ? Jun 15 12:13:40 it has a gps antenna Jun 15 12:13:50 agps means gps with prefetched sattelite-position information Jun 15 12:13:53 see wikipedia agps Jun 15 12:14:25 microsd, just 2gb, :| Jun 15 12:14:49 2gb is just not enough Jun 15 12:15:15 depends on what you want Jun 15 12:15:20 you could also use a usb hdd with 500gb Jun 15 12:15:38 Nebukadneza: you don't need A part of GPS ;-) Jun 15 12:15:49 well i'm thinking how well it could replace a PDA Jun 15 12:15:51 "8 mb ought to be enough for anybody" a wise man once said * Jun 15 12:16:04 i have just bought a PDA 2 weeks ago Jun 15 12:16:11 Nebukadneza: also I think further Phase 1 is delayed, further will also mass market be delayed Jun 15 12:16:22 and i'm thinking navigation maps here Jun 15 12:16:45 those take about 1 gigabyte with the software i use Jun 15 12:16:53 about delays: many various reasons (hardware bugs, parts availability) Jun 15 12:16:59 and you would only have 1gb left for mp3s Jun 15 12:17:43 voidwalker: it's not really billed as a music phone though Jun 15 12:17:49 voidwalker: 4gb microsd (are not available yet but) exist and 8gb microsd are announced for 2008 anyway. Jun 15 12:17:55 voidwalker: 1gb of the quality it could pump out would easily outlast the battery imo Jun 15 12:18:17 Nebukadneza: at the moment I think biggest USB powered hard disk is 160GB (though I guess you could always bring big battery and voltage converter to use 500GB one ;-) Jun 15 12:18:50 oh yeah i wanted to ask about that Jun 15 12:18:57 usb powered hard drives Jun 15 12:18:59 160gb you say ? Jun 15 12:19:04 aloril: i doubt that the neo will give enough power to spin a usb powered one ;P Jun 15 12:19:20 neo has unpowered usb Jun 15 12:19:25 so it needs a powered hub Jun 15 12:19:30 thats what i thought Jun 15 12:19:42 Nebukadneza: right, you need external battery powered one (still probably easier than using 500GB ones) Jun 15 12:19:47 basically you'd need to have a battery powered hub to get usb hd working Jun 15 12:20:09 well, powered hub vs. powered hdd is no big difference Jun 15 12:20:38 voidwalker: http://www.lacie.com/fi/products/product.htm?pid=10868 Jun 15 12:22:01 99 EUR in one shop Jun 15 12:23:34 aloril: you could buy a 500GB disk for that amount of money Jun 15 12:24:13 LuitvD: yeah, I wonder what kind of voltage they actually use (would need battery for usb and hard disk separately) Jun 15 12:24:36 LuitvD: also those 500GB hard disks are a quite amount bigger than above product ;-) Jun 15 12:24:42 true Jun 15 12:25:01 you know, there are USB powered mobile harddisks Jun 15 12:25:23 LuitvD: see above link (above 99 EUR price) Jun 15 12:25:26 those have two plugs, of which you plug each one into a different powered hub Jun 15 12:25:35 is that one usb powered? :| Jun 15 12:25:45 yes, one USB port too Jun 15 12:25:52 strange Jun 15 12:26:15 USB powered, 160GB, 135 x 75 x 15 mm Jun 15 12:26:21 meh, I'd rather have a 500GB in a server, and a network connection Jun 15 12:26:29 codafs! Jun 15 12:29:36 what? Jun 15 12:29:38 LuitvD: even with GTA02 and WiFi: you don't have WiFi everywhere ;-) (and even if has EDGE, its too slow) Jun 15 12:30:07 but maybe some future model has enough fast network connection in many places Jun 15 12:30:15 aloril: yeah, EDGE isn't an option here even... so it's just WiFi Jun 15 12:30:45 well i would buy it, but i fear it will cost well over $400 here :| Jun 15 12:30:46 if it's HSDPA 1,8Mbit it's good enaugh for me... Jun 15 12:31:56 HDSPA coverage in NL is getting better Jun 15 12:32:36 though about a year from now, WiMAX might be the nicest option... they're already doing some tests here Jun 15 12:33:14 LuitvD: not only use network storage, but also move computing intensive stuff to server (like kernel compile) Jun 15 12:33:25 or chess/go program or .. Jun 15 12:33:32 yeah Jun 15 12:33:45 mobile phones should become thin clients... Jun 15 12:34:22 * aloril intents to use Neo1973 like thin client, even with GPRS (in addition to using it as small PC too) Jun 15 12:34:36 ie.. some programs locally, other programs remotely Jun 15 12:34:36 buh, thin client over gprs... Jun 15 12:34:48 very thick thin client Jun 15 12:35:11 FreeNX should be usable over modem connections Jun 15 12:35:14 should only sent really really computing intensive operations... Jun 15 12:35:26 s/sent/send/ Jun 15 12:35:27 LuitvD meant: should only send really really computing intensive operations... Jun 15 12:40:19 talking about thin client over gprs... does anyone know about typical latencies over gprs? Jun 15 12:40:44 ping isn't that good, AFAIK Jun 15 12:40:52 0.25-3s Jun 15 12:40:58 that low? Jun 15 12:41:02 :P Jun 15 12:41:05 * aloril has seen 250ms ping Jun 15 12:41:15 I oftenly jump over 3 seconds here... Jun 15 12:41:27 and 250 isn't possible here... Jun 15 12:41:47 humm Jun 15 12:41:52 really, it's quite low where I'm from Jun 15 12:42:04 I usually get 200 ms with hsdpa latency Jun 15 12:43:07 it was faster than GPRS though, EDGE maybe Jun 15 12:44:37 Zenton, typical latencies vary according to local loads rather a lot really... Jun 15 12:45:00 yeah, and operators aren't always very nice about maintaining good latency Jun 15 12:45:17 Zenton: during tests on the Orange network in London last year I was getting 7s round trips Jun 15 12:45:22 I have tried several programs and latencies with hsdpa, now I have to test them with gprs... Jun 15 12:45:24 but let's see Jun 15 12:46:11 * LuitvD wants a HSDPA phone Jun 15 12:46:20 preferably the Samsung F700 Jun 15 12:47:01 currently 600-800 pings at my location, have seen a bit better Jun 15 12:47:03 plain gprs Jun 15 12:47:24 mostly in the 600's, occasional rises Jun 15 12:47:51 with nx and 200ms I can play games like maelstrom. Jun 15 12:48:06 nx maybe, plain X will be death with these latencies ;) Jun 15 12:48:11 but 200ms are not suitable for vnc. Jun 15 12:48:17 HSDPA, 5MP cam, WiFi, wide (2:1 ratio) touchscreen Jun 15 12:48:22 ideal phone for me Jun 15 12:48:25 :) Jun 15 12:49:11 (not to forget the qwerty keyboard) Jun 15 12:49:47 LuitvD: for hsdpa I use a huawei modem. Jun 15 12:50:10 I want it in a phone :P Jun 15 12:50:53 just attach, it to the Neo via USB (plus an external power feed) Jun 15 12:51:02 mjr: X crashes if connections hangs, not usable. Jun 15 12:51:18 Zenton, there's that _too_ Jun 15 12:51:54 Hmm. http://www.ebuyer.com/UK/product/126153/rb/0 Jun 15 13:05:15 Zenton_: doesn't FreeNX support something that allows to continue after reconnecting? Jun 15 13:06:05 yeah, it has like a proxy Jun 15 13:06:56 basically it seems to be a bit like an Xvnc solution, except maybe with a more efficient protocol Jun 15 13:06:59 correct me if I'm wrong Jun 15 13:08:00 it's the X protocol with bits missing, basically Jun 15 13:09:24 the ssh bits of it are a bit whiffy tho Jun 15 13:19:29 counter Jun 15 13:19:30 http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 55%) P1: 3 days 11:20:13 (3.472±3.5 days) (1475;228) Jun 15 13:22:35 Openmoko: The story of the neverending three days Jun 15 13:22:51 counter Jun 15 13:22:52 http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 55%) P1: 3 days 11:18:32 (3.471±3.5 days) (1476;228) Jun 15 13:29:50 zecke, ping Jun 15 13:47:03 Sup3rkiddo: pong Jun 15 13:48:28 zecke, hi, i presume you are working on python for openmoko as well Jun 15 13:50:08 Sup3rkiddo: sort of, this stupid gforge didn't allow me to import the code though Jun 15 13:51:12 zecke, cool...i am from the python-openmoko team..i guess it would make sense to know what each other is doing to prevent duplication of work..what are you working on now..btw? Jun 15 13:51:49 Sup3rkiddo: ~three month ago I created rather complete bindings Jun 15 13:52:06 zecke, yup, i know :) Jun 15 13:52:10 zecke: The gforge problem still persist? Is there a bugrport for it? Jun 15 13:52:45 stefan_schmidt: let me check Jun 15 13:55:09 stefan_schmidt: a) Developer Subversion Access via SSH is unlikely to work Jun 15 13:56:30