**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Jun 23 02:59:57 2007
Jun 23 03:03:52 <summatusmentis> thanks aevin 
Jun 23 03:40:10 <wehttamb> counter
Jun 23 03:40:11 <aloril> http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (65% for P1<=2007-07-07) 70% for *news* in 2 days 04:09:52 (2.174±2.2 days) (1553;235)
Jun 23 03:43:45 <summatusmentis> how in the world does it figure percentages?
Jun 23 03:48:23 <madwoota> guess
Jun 23 03:48:54 <aloril> guess as is said in counter page
Jun 23 03:49:34 <aloril> in past I think most of time when it was said that news was coming it usually did game in time
Jun 23 03:50:17 <summatusmentis> guessing percentages huh? sort of misleading I guess
Jun 23 03:50:35 <summatusmentis> or maybe it's just me, but when I see percentages I assume it's a mathematical something or other :-P
Jun 23 03:51:12 <aloril> hehe, well.. if 3 news and 2 has come in time, that would be somewhat like this ;-)
Jun 23 03:51:44 <summatusmentis> :-)
Jun 23 03:52:14 <summatusmentis> I'm hoping it gets to the point where the software will be usable enough
Jun 23 03:52:34 * summatusmentis was impressed by the iPhone walkthrough he saw on apple.com today
Jun 23 03:52:58 <summatusmentis> except it's way overpriced, and I'd rather have the neo
Jun 23 04:05:09 * Linux_Galore waves
Jun 23 04:05:19 <summatusmentis> hi Linux_Galore 
Jun 23 04:18:05 <summatusmentis> hi Linux_Galore, again :-P
Jun 23 04:18:45 <Linux_Galore> don't press the big red button
Jun 23 04:19:18 <summatusmentis> lol
Jun 23 04:36:58 <baird> Hmm.. Something I'm looking forward to doing if/when the OM gets a camera-- doing a 'high quality JPEG rescaling mode'. A friend just sent me a photo from his new Nokia N95, and it creates these worthlessly large 5Mpix images with savagely decimated chromiance & etc, that only look good after using GIMP to scale them down to 800x600 and saving the images /properly/...
Jun 23 04:41:35 <summatusmentis> what's the possible Mpix count on the neo cam?
Jun 23 04:54:41 <aloril> future Neo/whatever with potential cam could have different chip
Jun 23 04:55:41 <Linux_Galore> baird: I use Digikam and it has a built in image editor that allow me to import the image from the N95 then resize, fix the colour balance chroma etc then save it to my image database
Jun 23 04:56:06 <Linux_Galore> allows*
Jun 23 04:57:13 <aloril> GTA02 chip currently being evaluated (but pins needed for camera are not put to connector) http://www.smediatech.com/product3370.htm )
Jun 23 04:58:33 <Linux_Galore> I have a feeling too there is an image editor program that you can run on the N95 to resize edit the colour/chroma etc before you save or send the image
Jun 23 05:00:31 <Linux_Galore> I just had a look at my N95 and there is an image editor built in
Jun 23 05:01:07 <Linux_Galore> Ive only taken about 4 pictures with mine so far I usually use a proper camera
Jun 23 05:03:06 <Linux_Galore> for all the functionality that the N95 offers none of it is what i would call good, the whole device is about compromises 
Jun 23 05:03:28 <Linux_Galore> I recharge the bloody thing every night
Jun 23 05:04:48 <Linux_Galore> the mp3 player is rubbish (sound wise) compared to an iPOD
Jun 23 05:06:13 <Linux_Galore> it has an equalizer but that like using a $1,000 equalizer with a $50 amp, wast of time
Jun 23 05:06:19 <Linux_Galore> that is*
Jun 23 05:07:59 <Linux_Galore> I have used sennhesier cx300 headphones with each so I cant complain that the headset is the problem
Jun 23 05:08:16 <Linux_Galore> headphones sorry
Jun 23 05:12:32 <Linux_Galore> Ive been told if you want to use the N95 for audio get some bluetooth headphones that way you dont have to listen to the poor quality of the a-d converter
Jun 23 05:13:08 <Linux_Galore> I must admit though the N95 with bluetooth devices is pretty good
Jun 23 08:28:44 <gamin> counter
Jun 23 08:28:44 <aloril> http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (65% for P1<=2007-07-07) 70% for *news* in 2 days 01:45:36 (2.073±2.1 days) (1554;236)
Jun 23 08:28:58 <gamin> counter
Jun 23 08:28:59 <aloril> http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (65% for P1<=2007-07-07) 70% for *news* in 2 days 01:45:28 (2.073±2.1 days) (1555;236)
Jun 23 08:55:18 <gamin> counter
Jun 23 08:55:18 <aloril> http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (65% for P1<=2007-07-07) 70% for *news* in 2 days 01:32:19 (2.064±2.1 days) (1556;236)
Jun 23 08:55:23 <gamin> counter
Jun 23 08:55:23 <aloril> http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (65% for P1<=2007-07-07) 70% for *news* in 2 days 01:32:16 (2.064±2.1 days) (1557;236)
Jun 23 08:55:27 <gamin> counter
Jun 23 08:55:28 <aloril> http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (65% for P1<=2007-07-07) 70% for *news* in 2 days 01:32:14 (2.064±2.1 days) (1558;236)
Jun 23 08:55:56 * gamin is slightly bored
Jun 23 08:56:12 <gamin> counter
Jun 23 08:56:13 <aloril> http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (65% for P1<=2007-07-07) 70% for *news* in 2 days 01:31:51 (2.064±2.1 days) (1559;236)
Jun 23 09:06:07 <sascham83> hi @ all
Jun 23 09:08:04 <sascham83> can ne 1 of you tell me, where to get this rootfs-file which i have to extract when getting openmoko working on host with xoo?
Jun 23 09:08:06 <aloril> sascham83: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.)
Jun 23 09:17:12 <sascham83> sorry, this didn't answer my question. it says, that i will have a $OMDIR/build/tmp/image directory with that rootfs file in it, but i haven't :-( did i do something wrong?
Jun 23 09:27:18 <PBeck> hi
Jun 23 09:27:25 <PBeck> counter
Jun 23 09:27:25 <aloril> http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (65% for P1<=2007-07-07) 70% for *news* in 2 days 01:16:15 (2.053±2.1 days) (1560;236)
Jun 23 09:27:35 <PBeck> :)
Jun 23 09:32:55 <Linux_Galore> yeah, 6 weeks <sigh>
Jun 23 09:51:54 <buz> how is 7-7 6 weeks?
Jun 23 09:52:00 <buz> try 2
Jun 23 09:57:26 <Linux_Galore> buz: late July isnt 2 weeks
Jun 23 09:57:42 <buz> (65% for P1<=2007-07-07)
Jun 23 09:57:48 <buz> where do you read about late july
Jun 23 09:58:23 <Linux_Galore> buz: marketing reality, I have yet to see anything release on its exact date with so much vagueness attached 
Jun 23 09:58:43 <buz> ah well by that measure it could just as well be october ;)
Jun 23 09:59:02 <buz> OTOH, it got delayed 6 months already
Jun 23 09:59:11 <Linux_Galore> buz: I always add 2-3 weeks onto a maybe for any product release 
Jun 23 09:59:27 <Linux_Galore> buz: just because its there doesnt mean I can buy one either
Jun 23 09:59:44 <buz> that heavily depends on what shipping is used
Jun 23 09:59:54 <buz> it's fully possible to get phones in 48h to your door
Jun 23 10:00:04 <buz> pricing just isnt very sane for that
Jun 23 10:00:12 <Elrond> Linux_Galore - You once talked a bit about laptops. Can you recommend a small to medium sized thing, that works well with linux? (I'd appreciate not having to install any binary-only drivers)
Jun 23 10:00:55 <Elrond> jeddy3 - BTW: What does "bahnhof" stand for in .se?  It has a german meaning, that's, why I ask.
Jun 23 10:01:08 <buz> Elrond: most that run intel 950 or 965 graphics
Jun 23 10:01:28 <buz> thinkpad X60 or x61 for a really small one
Jun 23 10:01:44 <Linux_Galore> Elrond: hmm my rules are simple, Dont buy Sony and  "all intel" and maybe "Nvidia for graphics"  every laptops I have purchased always works
Jun 23 10:01:45 <jeddy3> Elrond, it has no swedish meaning, it's a ISP, and possibly they just chose bahnhof for it's german meaning...
Jun 23 10:01:57 <buz> you DO BUY ALL intel
Jun 23 10:02:12 <buz> nvidia graphics if you can live with binary only
Jun 23 10:02:26 <buz> and make a BIG circle around everything ATI
Jun 23 10:02:30 <jeddy3> Elrond, it's ...something like railyard in german?
Jun 23 10:02:39 <Linux_Galore> yeah, Intel gear is fully supported in the kernel
Jun 23 10:02:45 <buz> which these days pretty much means no amd
Jun 23 10:02:46 <Elrond> jeddy3 - railway station.
Jun 23 10:02:47 <Linux_Galore> the more of it the better I say lol
Jun 23 10:03:02 <buz> maybe except for intel 4965 wireless
Jun 23 10:03:07 <buz> that might not be supported yet
Jun 23 10:03:14 <buz> should be in short order anyway
Jun 23 10:03:16 <jeddy3> Elrond, ah ok, it's just a name of a company here
Jun 23 10:03:26 <Linux_Galore> buz: last i looked thats been fixed
Jun 23 10:03:26 <buz> intel 3945 wireless is perfect
Jun 23 10:03:31 <buz> oh good then
Jun 23 10:03:34 <Elrond> jeddy3 - funny name choosing. :)
Jun 23 10:03:42 <buz> i checked 10d ago
Jun 23 10:03:45 <buz> then it wasnt fixed iirc
Jun 23 10:04:05 <Linux_Galore> thoug if you want wireless aim for a older intel version, fewer bugs
Jun 23 10:04:20 <buz> unless you really really need draft N that is
Jun 23 10:04:33 <Elrond> draft N?
Jun 23 10:04:36 <jeddy3> Elrond, yeah :)
Jun 23 10:04:49 <Linux_Galore> Im not sold on N I have a linksys card that does N and its anything buy great
Jun 23 10:04:52 <Linux_Galore> but*
Jun 23 10:05:59 <Linux_Galore> G does the job
Jun 23 10:06:00 <Elrond> So the laptop area is a lot better than the desktop area these days?
Jun 23 10:06:31 <Linux_Galore> Elrond: well less issues these days unless you buy total crap
Jun 23 10:07:04 <Linux_Galore> Elrond: always take a live cd just in case
Jun 23 10:07:12 <Elrond> Yeah. :)
Jun 23 10:07:36 <buz> i wouldnt say its better than desktops
Jun 23 10:07:38 <Linux_Galore> Elrond: the last few laptop I purchased for the company though all ran Linux just fine 
Jun 23 10:07:44 <buz> but not much of an issue anymore if you know you're way
Jun 23 10:08:04 <buz> anyone got any opinion on dell latitudes?
Jun 23 10:08:47 <Linux_Galore> buz: they work ok but the keyboard quality seems to vary way too much between the mdoels
Jun 23 10:08:51 <Linux_Galore> models*
Jun 23 10:08:52 <buz> (i would buy lenovo but lenovo switzerland has their head stuck very far where the sun doesnt shine)
Jun 23 10:09:04 <buz> Linux_Galore: i'm looking at the top end. D830 or so
Jun 23 10:09:10 <Linux_Galore> yeah, Lenovo are pretty good kit
Jun 23 10:09:23 <buz> it is, if only lenovo switzerland would actually sell you current kit
Jun 23 10:09:34 <Linux_Galore> buz: D8** series work fine
Jun 23 10:09:46 <buz> i still think they are a bit pricey
Jun 23 10:10:05 <Linux_Galore> buz: yeah, getting into mabook territory 
Jun 23 10:10:11 <Linux_Galore> macbook*
Jun 23 10:10:38 <buz> mhh more than macbook
Jun 23 10:10:41 <buz> but way better specs
Jun 23 10:10:42 <Linux_Galore> whats funny Linux runs really well on a macbook
Jun 23 10:10:49 <buz> it's about the same pricing as thinkpads
Jun 23 10:10:56 <buz> but unlike thinkpads, i dont trust dell
Jun 23 10:11:24 <Linux_Galore> buz: Dell are fine as long as you get check the support contract when you buy it
Jun 23 10:11:53 <buz> D830 come with 3 year onsite by default in siwtzerland
Jun 23 10:11:58 <buz> i could care less for on site though
Jun 23 10:12:07 <Linux_Galore> Dell sell based on support not so much quality, if your after quality and support then HP or Lenovo
Jun 23 10:13:08 <Linux_Galore> buz: just go to www.google.com/linux and type  dell d830  
Jun 23 10:13:29 <buz> i dont care for support, i care for rock solid build ;)
Jun 23 10:13:40 <buz> i'd get a hp 6710b but the fan controller is FUBAR
Jun 23 10:14:14 <Linux_Galore> HP do some decent AMD lappies but they are so close to the Intel price why would you bother
Jun 23 10:14:30 <buz> 6710b is intel
Jun 23 10:14:34 <buz> quite sanely priced too
Jun 23 10:14:51 <buz> the amd version with the same specs is actually 20% cheaper
Jun 23 10:14:57 <buz> but i sure as hell wont go back to ati
Jun 23 10:15:14 <buz> (i had a t60, gorgeos kit, for a month, got rid of it because of the stupid ati graphics=
Jun 23 10:16:12 <buz> 6710b with 2GB ram, 160gb hd, dvdrw and 1680x1050 (which is the main thing i want) costs 1000E here
Jun 23 10:16:57 <buz> but until the fan control isnt fixed i wont buy it
Jun 23 10:17:52 <Linux_Galore> buz: hmm it works but seems to be a bit of a pain to get X working
Jun 23 10:18:02 <buz> yeah 
Jun 23 10:18:16 <buz> but once you've seen 1680x1050 there's NFW to go back to 1280x800
Jun 23 10:18:46 <Elrond> Linux_Galore - For the desktops I got the impression, that Dell thingies were quite good quality.
Jun 23 10:19:02 <Linux_Galore> buz: also fan issues
Jun 23 10:20:00 <Linux_Galore> buz: seems to be more of a hardware is very new but kernel isnt quite there yet
Jun 23 10:20:31 <buz> the fan issues is a hardware thing
Jun 23 10:20:34 <buz> happens under vista as well
Jun 23 10:21:05 <Linux_Galore> buz: dont worry its been fixed, that was last year just checked the dates
Jun 23 10:21:32 <buz> cant be right
Jun 23 10:21:36 <buz> 6710b was released in may
Jun 23 10:22:29 <buz> http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?s=6774cd09b3772df842db7b414f480be9&t=124973&page=2
Jun 23 10:22:33 <buz> still pretty much  broken it seems
Jun 23 10:22:36 <Linux_Galore> buz: 6710b uses the 950 chipset that been out for a while now, Im seeing 965 stuff on the shelves
Jun 23 10:22:59 <Linux_Galore> buz: hmm bios problems <sigh>
Jun 23 10:23:06 <buz> no, 6710b uses 965
Jun 23 10:23:23 <buz> 7400 uses 950
Jun 23 10:23:37 <buz> i'd get the 7400 but i want GMAx 3100
Jun 23 10:24:24 <buz> besides i cant find a 4MB cache edition of the 7400 here
Jun 23 10:25:05 <Linux_Galore> buz: take a Gutsy CD to test it lol
Jun 23 10:25:27 <buz> cant test it nobody has it on display
Jun 23 10:25:46 <buz> everything works  save for the fan issue
Jun 23 10:26:41 <Linux_Galore> buz: I know 965 works ok because there is a local place near me that sells generic laptops with that chipset with an Ubuntu option
Jun 23 10:26:50 <buz> yeah i know
Jun 23 10:27:10 <buz> i k now someone in the ubuntu forums runs ubuntu on the 6710b even
Jun 23 10:27:22 <buz> (you need a git x driver on feisty, though)
Jun 23 10:28:15 <buz> i might go for fujitsu siemens if lenovo doesnt get the T61 soon
Jun 23 10:28:29 <Linux_Galore> I havent tried 965 stuff yet myself because it breaks one of my rules. its less than 6 months old
Jun 23 10:30:51 <Linux_Galore> Ive got two NEC Versa laptops, one in 8 years old and still working the other is 3
Jun 23 10:31:42 <Linux_Galore> I wouldnt give NEC awards for low weight laptops but they just dont break
Jun 23 10:32:02 <Linux_Galore> is 8 years*
Jun 23 10:32:21 <buz> the thinkpad was neat
Jun 23 10:32:26 <buz> 15wide and only 2.4kg
Jun 23 10:32:38 <Linux_Galore> buz: Thinkpads have very good keyboards
Jun 23 10:32:42 <buz> i know
Jun 23 10:32:50 <buz> tho the one on my toshiba portege isnt bad either
Jun 23 10:33:00 <Linux_Galore> buz: also all the media keys are sorted and work in Linux
Jun 23 10:33:14 <buz> most
Jun 23 10:33:16 <Linux_Galore> Yeah I have a Toshiba right now
Jun 23 10:33:36 <buz> toshiba sadly has no lightweight 1680x1050 notebook
Jun 23 10:33:43 <Linux_Galore> buz: well the last two i tried the keys "just worked"
Jun 23 10:33:54 <buz> suspend didnt in my case
Jun 23 10:34:06 <buz> and neither did the resolution stuff but that is plainly atis fault
Jun 23 10:34:08 <Linux_Galore> suspend has always been an issue
Jun 23 10:34:15 <buz> suspend does work
Jun 23 10:34:17 <buz> just not the keys
Jun 23 10:34:33 <Linux_Galore> well right now my laptop suspends "some times"
Jun 23 10:34:42 <buz> mine does quite reliably
Jun 23 10:34:47 <buz> takes a long time though
Jun 23 10:35:03 <Linux_Galore> if I hybernate too long it just doesnt work at all
Jun 23 10:35:37 <buz> i barely ever use hibernate
Jun 23 10:35:44 <buz> technically it works
Jun 23 10:35:47 <buz> but its kinda useless to me
Jun 23 10:36:08 <Linux_Galore> I can hybernate for half an hour ok but any longer and Im playing russian roulette 
Jun 23 10:37:17 <Linux_Galore> I like the build quality of Toshi's to be honest
Jun 23 10:37:48 <Linux_Galore> they are not what I would call a cutting edge supplier but there laptops dont seem to fall appart
Jun 23 10:39:07 <Linux_Galore> Ive got a really old P1 120 Toshi I still use to do DOS work on old eeproms chipsets for some industrial machinery that people keep refusing to scrap
Jun 23 10:40:15 <Linux_Galore> once every three months I boot it up to burn some new eeproms, it only has a 400mb hardisk in it
Jun 23 10:40:33 <buz> subjectively, i'd rate thinkpad t60 build quality higher than my portege
Jun 23 10:41:10 <Linux_Galore> buz: I never went with the portege range
Jun 23 10:41:54 <Linux_Galore> Im sure they are not even Toshiba made laptops from memory
Jun 23 10:42:44 <Linux_Galore> buz: what is it a R or M ?
Jun 23 10:45:31 <Linux_Galore> Im off to have a shower getting late
Jun 23 11:07:46 <kiney_> counter
Jun 23 11:07:46 <aloril> http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (65% for P1<=2007-07-07) 70% for *news* in 2 days 00:26:05 (2.018±2.0 days) (1561;236)
Jun 23 11:52:43 <empty_mind> counter
Jun 23 11:52:44 <aloril> http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (65% for P1<=2007-07-07) 70% for *news* in 2 days 00:03:36 (2.002±2.0 days) (1562;237)
Jun 23 12:06:57 <iwkse> i'm getting crazy with pivot_root. it's the only way to switch root?
Jun 23 12:06:57 <aloril> iwkse: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.)
Jun 23 12:07:58 <cdbot2> * * OM Bug 618 has been created by yoyo(AT)ghost.pl
Jun 23 12:07:59 <cdbot2> * * perl-native
Jun 23 12:08:00 <cdbot2> * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=618
Jun 23 14:04:30 <ynezz> counter
Jun 23 14:04:30 <aloril> http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (65% for P1<=2007-07-07) 70% for *news* in a day 22:57:43 (1.957±2.0 days) (1563;237)
Jun 23 14:28:22 <aloril> (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Main_page_-_recast]]
Jun 23 15:59:08 <k-s> guys, anyone up to test EFL on OpenMoko hw?
Jun 23 15:59:52 <koen> again?
Jun 23 16:00:04 <Elrond> What's efl?
Jun 23 16:00:39 <koen> Elrond: see http://blog.gustavobarbieri.com.br/
Jun 23 16:00:58 <k-s> koen: why again?
Jun 23 16:01:07 <k-s> koen: have you tested it? no mails from you on that!
Jun 23 16:01:07 <koen> I tested it a few months ago :)
Jun 23 16:01:21 <k-s> koen: you must test my new engine, really impressive gains
Jun 23 16:01:41 <koen> I'll try to do that tomorrow or monday
Jun 23 16:01:52 <koen> ~hail x11-16
Jun 23 16:01:53 * apt bows down to x11-16 and chants, "I'M NOT WORTHY!!"
Jun 23 16:01:57 <k-s> expedite is not that good to exemplify results, because it does so much things that some optimizations are diminished
Jun 23 16:02:12 <koen> an evas based maemo-mapper would rock
Jun 23 16:02:27 <k-s> sure!
Jun 23 16:02:40 <k-s> now I have to try getting others to develop apps on top of it
Jun 23 16:02:45 <k-s> konttori comes to mind
Jun 23 16:02:50 <k-s> maybe some games
Jun 23 16:02:55 <k-s> but I'm really out of ideas
Jun 23 16:03:05 <Elrond> Hmm, the top entry on the blog doesn't tell me, what efl is.
Jun 23 16:03:09 <k-s> I need a simple demo to showcase tech... but I don't have much time to code, so it must be simple
Jun 23 16:03:23 <k-s> Elrond: EFL is Enlightenment Foundation Libraries
Jun 23 16:03:54 <Elrond> Ahh.
Jun 23 16:03:56 <k-s> Elrond: which is composed by some libraries, including: Evas (Drawing area, Canvas), Edje (theme on top of Evas)
Jun 23 16:03:58 <Elrond> This rasterman thingy.
Jun 23 16:04:02 <k-s> Elrond: yes
Jun 23 16:04:34 <Elrond> I haven't bought any eye-candy-stocks. ;o)
Jun 23 16:04:47 <k-s> eh :-P
Jun 23 16:53:48 <nox-Hand> counter
Jun 23 16:53:48 <aloril> http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (65% for P1<=2007-07-07) 70% for *news* in a day 21:33:04 (1.898±1.9 days) (1564;237)
Jun 23 17:20:24 <dennisharrison> hell hello everyone
Jun 23 17:20:37 <dennisharrison> just checking in on the status
Jun 23 17:20:45 <dennisharrison> been asking around to see where to pick up the dev kits
Jun 23 17:21:00 <dennisharrison> and anyone been working on asterisk integration? 
Jun 23 17:21:33 <[lankester]> asterisk ?
Jun 23 17:22:08 <dennisharrison> yeah, tying the phone in with asterisk in a couple of ways would be extremely beneficial
Jun 23 17:22:20 <dennisharrison> we already use 'smart' phones for this every day
Jun 23 17:22:58 <dennisharrison> and does anyone know if the fic phone will support evdo on the sprint network ?
Jun 23 17:23:21 <dennisharrison> I emailed the american pr guy, but haven't gotten a response to that yet
Jun 23 17:24:55 <koen> dennisharrison: it won't, it's a GSM phone
Jun 23 17:25:36 <Sup3rkiddo> dennisharrison, evdo requires cdma afaik...fic isnt one
Jun 23 17:25:47 <Sup3rkiddo> s/fic/neo
Jun 23 17:26:28 <dennisharrison> koen, Sup3rkiddo thanks :)
Jun 23 17:26:56 <dennisharrison> oh well for that idea for now then
Jun 23 17:27:17 <dennisharrison> it does support 802.11g right? 
Jun 23 17:27:39 <[lankester]> will support
Jun 23 17:27:41 <PBeck> re
Jun 23 17:28:25 <Sup3rkiddo> dennisharrison, yup...atheros chipset iirc
Jun 23 17:28:25 <Elrond> dennisharrison - The next hw revision.
Jun 23 17:28:30 <Elrond> wifi?
Jun 23 17:28:30 <aloril> P1.5 will likely have WiFi (Atheros AR6K): http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/announce/2007-April/000012.html  http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973  http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ#Q:_What_is_the_rationale_behind_the_exclusion_of_WiFi.3F  (WiFi status for P1.5 will be known for sure when P1 becomes available and also what kind of discount for P1.5 is given for P1 buyers)
Jun 23 17:28:40 <Sup3rkiddo> yay..i was right
Jun 23 17:28:47 <SpeedEvil> pony?
Jun 23 18:29:23 <summatusmentis> is there any idea as to the price range of the P1.5/P2?
Jun 23 18:30:08 <Magon> topic
Jun 23 18:30:31 <summatusmentis> so it'll be $350, regardless of what version of phone it is?
Jun 23 18:30:46 <Magon> probably
Jun 23 18:30:55 <Elrond> No. There is just no info on P1.5/P2 pricing.
Jun 23 18:31:10 <summatusmentis> elliotf: hrm... ok, thanks
Jun 23 18:31:11 <Magon> but it is still the same device
Jun 23 18:31:14 <Elrond> There is some hope for an alike price. But that's it. AFAIK.
Jun 23 18:31:35 <Magon> it is just usable version
Jun 23 18:31:49 <Magon> or i am wrong
Jun 23 18:31:56 <Magon> someone mentioned wifi
Jun 23 18:32:03 <Magon> but that is just rumon
Jun 23 18:32:05 <summatusmentis> right, there will be updated specs
Jun 23 18:32:07 <Elrond> Magon - The P1.5/P2 (GTA02) has more features, more flash, more CPU, etc... So no "same device"
Jun 23 18:32:25 <Elrond> It just looks the same from outside.
Jun 23 18:32:34 <Elrond> And will run the same kernel/rootfs.
Jun 23 18:33:46 <summatusmentis> it's really too bad development isn't moving along faster
Jun 23 18:37:10 <Elrond> summatusmentis - Well, it's hardware, keep that in mind.
Jun 23 18:37:24 <Elrond> With normal products, you wouldn't even know anything.
Jun 23 18:37:38 <Elrond> and/or get a crappy product.
Jun 23 18:47:15 <Magon> Elrond: developement of simple Hw stuff takes usually year
Jun 23 18:47:20 <Magon> grr
Jun 23 18:47:25 <Magon> to summatusmentis
Jun 23 19:18:01 <summatusmentis> Elrond: what do you mean? I'm not familiar w/ the dev process, since it's hardware and software, it just extends it? is that what you're saying?
Jun 23 19:20:16 <Elrond> What I am saying: With normal products you would not know about a product before it hits the store in your town. You would not know, how many years it took to design it.
Jun 23 19:21:22 <summatusmentis> Elrond: that's true, that's a fair assesment. I was actually just sitting here thinking "why is fic taking so long compared to the iPhone?" but you're right
Jun 23 19:21:37 <summatusmentis> I guess that's the nature of open{source,anything}
Jun 23 19:21:52 <summatusmentis> open from the get-go
Jun 23 19:21:58 <woglinde> summatusmentis actually the iphone isnt out
Jun 23 19:22:12 <woglinde> and god knows how many bugs it will have
Jun 23 19:22:20 <summatusmentis> woglinde: no, I'm aware of that
Jun 23 19:22:41 <summatusmentis> it'll be out in a week, but I'm fully aware that there's no real comparison yet
Jun 23 19:23:17 <woglinde> i dont belivie it will be a cool phone
Jun 23 19:23:55 <summatusmentis> I think it has the same strengths that the neo will have, except for the open platform
Jun 23 19:24:08 <summatusmentis> personally, I'm excited about this 'next-generation' of phones
Jun 23 19:25:30 <CoreDump> woglinde: you may think about apple what you want but they usually make their gadgets appear pretty cool
Jun 23 19:26:26 <summatusmentis> that's very true, and again, I was just using the iPhone as an example. I'll just have to learn to be patient :-P
Jun 23 19:27:12 * summatusmentis goes to work some more
Jun 23 19:27:33 <summatusmentis> I'll be back later, I'm not trying to bash the openmoko project at all, I think it's great what people are doing
Jun 23 19:28:29 <CoreDump> I'll be even cooler when more devices get out iunto the wild ;)
Jun 23 19:33:30 <SpeedEvil> Aha - the strategy is to release on the same day as Iphone, to avoid slashdot! 
Jun 23 19:35:13 <SpeedEvil> summatusmentis: It is _possible_ that Apple have a rather larger design team and budget.
Jun 23 20:19:29 <aloril2> SpeedEvil: hehe (about same date)
Jun 23 20:20:08 <aloril2> also we don't know how long iPhone has been in development
Jun 23 20:21:36 <summatusmentis> SpeedEvil: :-P that's true, like I said, I haven't thought about these things thoroughly, as I'm unfamiliar with the process
Jun 23 20:25:26 <aloril2> nox-hand: its now 1.8 days + 1.8 days of uncertainty to either direction
Jun 23 20:25:54 <aloril2> so range of counter is now 0-3.6 days
Jun 23 20:26:21 <aloril2> (also see end of counter page)
Jun 23 20:26:44 <nox-Hand> Yup
Jun 23 20:26:47 <nox-Hand> THanks
Jun 23 20:29:42 <aloril> (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Getting_OpenMoko_working_on_host_with_Xephyr]]
Jun 23 21:21:20 <expose> will the phone be available worldwide?
Jun 23 21:21:44 <expose> or specifically, will it be available in germany?
Jun 23 21:23:32 <summatusmentis> what is the wheel looking thing in these mockups?
Jun 23 21:23:50 <miip> what mockups?
Jun 23 21:24:24 <summatusmentis> the artist mockups on the UI on wiki.openmoko.org
Jun 23 21:24:32 <miip> expose:  yes it will be available in germany
Jun 23 21:24:57 <expose> Good. Thanks
Jun 23 21:25:44 <miip> summatusmentis:  its a wheel to scroll through stuff :)
Jun 23 21:25:48 <kiney_> counter
Jun 23 21:25:49 <aloril> http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (65% for P1<=2007-07-07) 70% for *news* in a day 19:17:03 (1.804±1.8 days) (1565;237)
Jun 23 21:26:04 <summatusmentis> miip: lol, oh
Jun 23 21:26:16 <summatusmentis> it just looks sort of random, I was like "what in the world is that for?"
Jun 23 21:26:38 <Twey> Heh
Jun 23 21:27:28 * nox-Hand rejoices
Jun 23 21:27:34 <Twey> What's this "anyone can buy for $350" bit?
Jun 23 21:27:49 <Twey> Is that not mass market?
Jun 23 21:28:03 <Twey> Or will they only be available from FIC?
Jun 23 21:28:28 <nox-Hand> Twey: Only 1000 units afaik
Jun 23 21:28:32 <nox-Hand> Then some more later
Jun 23 21:28:37 <Twey> Ah
Jun 23 21:28:45 <nox-Hand> Mass market (nuff for everyone) in September
Jun 23 21:29:01 * Twey nods.
Jun 23 21:29:01 <nox-Hand> Twey: The ones out soon are targeted at developers that will make it awesome for us when we get ours in September
Jun 23 21:29:02 <summatusmentis> nox-Hand: nope "Mass market perhaps in 6 months or more..." see the topic
Jun 23 21:29:20 <miip> summatusmentis: read http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Finger_Scrolling its explained there
Jun 23 21:29:21 <summatusmentis> when we get ours in 6months
Jun 23 21:29:33 <summatusmentis> miip: ok, thanks :-)
Jun 23 21:29:44 <Twey> How wide is the application base?
Jun 23 21:31:37 <SpeedEvil> Puns! http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l214/Ymdar/Motivator/raidovermoscow.jpg
Jun 23 21:31:39 <SpeedEvil> oops
Jun 23 21:31:43 <rwhitby> morning
Jun 23 21:31:54 <SpeedEvil> nox-Hand: September is _Very_ unlikely.
Jun 23 21:33:26 <nox-Hand> SpeedEvil: Yeah :(
Jun 23 21:34:12 <SpeedEvil> Well - unless FIC gets _really_ excited about the project, and starts spreading the beer tokens around.
Jun 23 21:34:58 <summatusmentis> miip: I see that being sort of annoying, hitting the bottom of the screen on a regular basis(assuming it operates like the iPod touchwheel)
Jun 23 21:36:18 <miip> summatusmentis: yeah a hardware wheel/scrollpad or something would be better
Jun 23 21:36:37 <summatusmentis> or even just a scroll down button
Jun 23 21:36:45 * SpeedEvil is going to be adding buttons.
Jun 23 21:37:16 <summatusmentis> SpeedEvil: hardware buttons?
Jun 23 21:38:43 <SpeedEvil> Yes.
Jun 23 21:38:53 * SpeedEvil waves a soldering iron in a menacing manner.
Jun 23 21:39:18 <Twey> Haha
Jun 23 21:39:31 * rwhitby will develop on a neo without a keyboard, but it won't replace his treo650 until it has a keyboard.
Jun 23 21:39:45 <rwhitby> (a future model that is)
Jun 23 21:40:22 <SpeedEvil> I'm not adding a keyboard - that'd be silly.
Jun 23 21:40:32 <SpeedEvil> A capacitive joystick - perhaps.
Jun 23 21:40:33 <nox-Hand> SpeedEvil: Agreed, but we need more buttons :(
Jun 23 21:40:57 <nox-Hand> SpeedEvil: keyboard ftl, but something like a scrollwheel with a click option would be awesomely useful
Jun 23 21:41:04 <expose> SpeedEvil: i'll make mine watertight
Jun 23 21:41:11 <SpeedEvil> http://www.analog.com/en/press/0,2890,3%255F%255F127985,00.html
Jun 23 21:41:11 <nox-Hand> expose: haha
Jun 23 21:41:15 <rwhitby> SpeedEvil: maybe silly for you, not for me.
Jun 23 21:41:23 <nox-Hand> expose is not going to expose his Neo to the elements
Jun 23 21:41:40 <SpeedEvil> nox-Hand: it may fail in hard vacuum.
Jun 23 21:42:03 <nox-Hand> xP
Jun 23 21:42:04 <SpeedEvil> nox-Hand: LCDs may not be adequately sealed, and the speakers won't work well.
Jun 23 21:42:14 <nox-Hand> SpeedEvil: agreed
Jun 23 21:42:44 <expose> as long as it doesnt have a joystick it's fine...those beasts break extremely often due to dust it's exposed to in everyday life
Jun 23 21:43:09 * nox-Hand gets up to clear up his room and quickly regrets downing that brown ale so quickly >_<
Jun 23 21:43:18 <SpeedEvil> Capacitive joystick - with no moving parts
Jun 23 21:43:20 <summatusmentis> something like the blackberry scrollwheeel would be nice
Jun 23 21:43:21 <SpeedEvil> works through the case
Jun 23 21:44:46 <SpeedEvil> Just a 'locator pip' on the outside, for feeling.
Jun 23 23:01:38 * rwhitby just watched the OpenMoko at Tossug video, and LaForge looks about 15 years younger than what I expected given the amount of stuff he has done in his career already ...
Jun 23 23:02:10 <stefan_schmidt> rwhitby: 28 IIRC
Jun 23 23:02:59 <stefan_schmidt> rwhitby: pretty fast career indeed. But he works ~80h a week for that.
Jun 23 23:03:03 <rwhitby> ok, so he also looks young for his age too (at least to me) :-)
Jun 23 23:04:52 * rwhitby notes the reference to MokoMakefile in Harald's talk :-)
Jun 23 23:10:03 <Elrond> hehe. :-)
Jun 23 23:10:50 * stefan_schmidt notices that e is still using CVS. :(
Jun 23 23:17:01 * Linux_Galore waves
Jun 23 23:18:24 <kiney_> counter
Jun 23 23:18:25 <aloril> http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (65% for P1<=2007-07-07) 70% for *news* in a day 18:20:45 (1.764±1.8 days) (1566;237)
Jun 23 23:20:10 <Elrond> stefan_schmidt - What's so wrong with cvs? It scales better than svn's fsfs and takes less disk space.
Jun 23 23:21:58 <stefan_schmidt> Elrond: Disk space is cheap. For scaling do you have numbers? It feels really slow.
Jun 23 23:22:26 <stefan_schmidt> Elrond: Besides that I'm not a fan of working around all the problems it have.
Jun 23 23:22:47 <stefan_schmidt> Elrond: But please not another SCM discussion here.
Jun 23 23:24:40 <stefan_schmidt> Time to sleep anyway. Night all
Jun 23 23:25:00 <Elrond> Night stefan_schmidt :-)
Jun 23 23:25:08 <Elrond> Hi LaF0rge 
Jun 23 23:26:27 <Elrond> stefan_schmidt - Well, my base point is only "don't condemn cvs so generally".
Jun 23 23:34:30 <Elrond> Anyone a good recommendation for a small db that can do record level locking?
Jun 23 23:40:31 <Linux_Galore> svn = making the same mistakes as cvs but better
Jun 23 23:42:10 <Elrond> "The Mozilla CVS repository was 2.7GB, imported to Subversion it grew to 8.2GB. Under Git, it shrunk to 450MB." ( http://keithp.com/blog/Repository_Formats_Matter.html )
Jun 23 23:42:59 <ynezz> 10GB costs nothing...
Jun 23 23:43:16 <SpeedEvil> reading it is expensive though
Jun 23 23:43:27 <ynezz> could be :)
Jun 23 23:43:37 <SpeedEvil> bench, bemch, bench
Jun 23 23:43:54 <Elrond> ynezz - That's the old microsoft way of talking "Buy better hardware" ;o)
Jun 23 23:44:02 <ynezz> why not
Jun 23 23:44:08 <ynezz> it's cheap
Jun 23 23:44:23 <Elrond> Well, see the factors. It's factor 4.
Jun 23 23:44:35 <SpeedEvil> if svn is much faster than git, then there i an argument for it.
Jun 23 23:44:37 <Elrond> So if it took 500GB before, it will be 2TB after.
Jun 23 23:44:49 <ynezz> there's no git client on windows
Jun 23 23:44:51 <SpeedEvil> If not...
Jun 23 23:45:03 <ynezz> or wasn't last time I checked
Jun 23 23:45:40 <Ycros> git is written quite specifically to run on linux
Jun 23 23:46:37 <Elrond> The windows port is getting better each day.
Jun 23 23:47:04 <Elrond> But anyway. I only posted it for the comparison of cvs and svn.
Jun 23 23:47:24 <Linux_Galore> cvs/svn are good from smaller single point projects but when your working across the web and something with tens of thousands of files forget it
Jun 23 23:47:34 <Linux_Galore> oops
Jun 23 23:47:51 <Linux_Galore> cvs/svn is good for smaller*
Jun 23 23:49:08 <Linux_Galore> I turned my /home  directory into a svn setup just for fun
Jun 23 23:49:21 <Linux_Galore> last time I will do that
Jun 23 23:49:40 <Elrond> Why?
Jun 23 23:50:03 <Linux_Galore> Elrond: why, as in why did I do it ?
Jun 23 23:50:15 <Elrond> No, why "last time".
Jun 23 23:50:46 <Linux_Galore> Elrond: aah, starts to become too complex when your moving between distro's
Jun 23 23:51:01 <Elrond> Huh?
Jun 23 23:52:46 <Linux_Galore> Elrond: also it adds another layer of complexity that didnt really add much advantage for me when beagle/auto-backup worked just as well
Jun 23 23:55:10 <Elrond> Linux_Galore - You any hint on my db question?
Jun 23 23:58:06 <Linux_Galore> ?? SQLite 
Jun 24 00:01:44 <Linux_Galore> They should give out awards for people who figure out git heh
Jun 24 00:03:30 <Linux_Galore> Mozilla 3 will be using sqlite, many Linux apps (amarok is one) us it
Jun 24 00:03:38 <Linux_Galore> use*
Jun 24 00:08:39 <Elrond> Well, sqlite doesn't do api controlled record level locking.
Jun 24 00:11:00 <Elrond> It's only table level locking.
Jun 24 00:13:39 <SpeedEvil> Has any thought been give to screen readers?
Jun 24 00:14:36 <SpeedEvil> Being able to read SMS and do 'stuff' just using bluetooth voice, with it in the pocket would be nice.
Jun 24 00:15:29 <summatusmentis> SpeedEvil: is there even anything with that functionality available for any OS?
Jun 24 00:15:39 <SpeedEvil> Sort-of.
Jun 24 00:15:50 <summatusmentis> Readers yes, but I didn't know there was voice-activated commands
Jun 24 00:15:52 <SpeedEvil> There are linux distributions available for screen readers
Jun 24 00:16:07 <SpeedEvil> Windows has voice commands.
Jun 24 00:16:31 <SpeedEvil> google windows voice virus
Jun 24 00:16:56 <SpeedEvil> Free speech recognition under linux, well, it's lagging a bit.
Jun 24 00:17:24 <Linux_Galore> Elrond: thought they enabled that in Ver 3.0
Jun 24 00:18:26 <Linux_Galore> yeah, if i was going to pick something that Linux really lags on right now it would be  speech recognition
Jun 24 00:18:47 <summatusmentis> worse than OS flashplayer?
Jun 24 00:20:19 <Linux_Galore> summatusmentis: yeah well at least it "plays some things", with speech recognitions its a desert 
Jun 24 00:20:48 <SpeedEvil> There are some interesting projects on sourceforge.
Jun 24 00:21:06 <summatusmentis> so there may be a need for a ground-up solution?
Jun 24 00:21:14 <Elrond> Linux_Galore - 2.x: whole db level locking.  Version 3.x: table level locking.
Jun 24 00:21:23 <Linux_Galore> I remember going to a talk done by a visually disabled person and its only then you start to see some of the problems 
Jun 24 00:21:38 <SpeedEvil> And there are pay-lots-for server stuff, aimed at telephone automation of switchboards
Jun 24 00:22:01 <SpeedEvil> 'tsp' uses a speech reader and a conventional keyboard.
Jun 24 00:22:10 <SpeedEvil> The speech reader going at 600wpm or so
Jun 24 00:24:16 <Linux_Galore> Microsoft has a workshop project it sponsors to create software add ons for disabled people (Microsoft makes a total loss on the venture)
Jun 24 00:24:35 <summatusmentis> SpeedEvil: http://software.newsforge.com/article.pl?sid=05/01/13/1445211
Jun 24 00:24:46 <Linux_Galore> very little if any equivalent for FOSS
Jun 24 00:25:17 <Elrond> Linux_Galore - The best way to make windows useable for me: Set the screen resolution to 800x600. ;o)
Jun 24 00:25:42 * SpeedEvil is running at 800*600
Jun 24 00:25:44 <SpeedEvil> lappy
Jun 24 00:26:01 <summatusmentis> SpeedEvil: looks like it's... rough, to say the least, but there might be something to build off of
Jun 24 00:26:08 <Linux_Galore> Elrond: well the only really redeeming feature for Linux and the visually disabled is you can do just about everything at the command line
Jun 24 00:26:24 <Elrond> Right.
Jun 24 00:26:52 <Elrond> Guess what my screen looks like?  Right: bunches of 80x24 xterms with a diagonal of about 15". ;-)
Jun 24 00:26:57 <Linux_Galore> Elrond: but visually disabled people dont like being isolated in that manner and do like using a UI
Jun 24 00:28:19 <Linux_Galore> it amusing to watch a visually disabled person using the Gnome UI with its built in speech reader that doesnt work really well for all the menu's 
Jun 24 00:28:30 <Elrond> I have a few UI applications, I use: firefox, gimp, openoffice.
Jun 24 00:28:41 <SpeedEvil> summatusmentis: if it can't do speech recognition in a timely manner on a 1500Mhz processor, ...
Jun 24 00:28:54 <SpeedEvil> (going from the page comments)
Jun 24 00:29:08 <summatusmentis> ew... ok, I didn't read the comments
Jun 24 00:29:28 <summatusmentis> so perhaps it's bad coding, or perhaps it needs high CPU
Jun 24 00:30:32 <Elrond> There were some university research projects, and they even tried to create a version for handheld devices...
Jun 24 00:31:13 <SpeedEvil> It's a shame IBM pulled viavoice
Jun 24 00:31:20 <Linux_Galore> Elrond: there was an IBM project for speech recognition but they seem to have dropped it
Jun 24 00:31:20 <summatusmentis> Elrond: any idea as to which universities? or projects? or something?
Jun 24 00:31:41 <Elrond> summatusmentis - Not really. :-|
Jun 24 00:32:05 <Linux_Galore> always ask MIT, speech recognition would be something they would be into
Jun 24 00:32:19 <summatusmentis> Linux_Galore: good point
Jun 24 00:32:57 * Linux_Galore notes MIT has a touch interface table research project in 2001
Jun 24 00:33:08 <Linux_Galore> s/has/had/
Jun 24 00:33:52 <summatusmentis> I think I saw a video of that
Jun 24 00:34:11 <SpeedEvil> Viavoice was a commercial, widely sold product
Jun 24 00:35:09 <Linux_Galore> summatusmentis: yeah, someone released a howto last year ie build your own touch interface table then Microsoft runs around a few weeks ago saying "ooh look what we created isnt it innovative"
Jun 24 00:36:02 <summatusmentis> Linux_Galore: you're not bitter or anything huh?
Jun 24 00:36:06 <Linux_Galore> even the whole methodlogy of the UI was a rippoff of the MIT/Apple demo's
Jun 24 00:36:14 <summatusmentis> SpeedEvil: I think I've got an old windows version of viavoice
Jun 24 00:36:31 <Linux_Galore> summatusmentis: no I just hate people who try sell someone elses idea's as their own
Jun 24 00:37:14 <summatusmentis> yeah, I get it
Jun 24 00:37:54 <Linux_Galore> summatusmentis: apples did a demo last year and they admited openly they got the idea from MIT, but not a word from Microsoft
Jun 24 00:39:07 <Linux_Galore> summatusmentis: have you seen the Microsoft Surface parody video, ie "Big assed desktop"
Jun 24 00:40:00 <summatusmentis> I haven't
Jun 24 00:40:51 <Linux_Galore> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZrr7AZ9nCY
Jun 24 00:43:50 <summatusmentis> SpeedEvil: I'm not seeing much from preliminary googling
Jun 24 00:46:47 <summatusmentis> Linux_Galore: :-P
Jun 24 00:47:49 <Linux_Galore> summatusmentis: heh quote "Take that Apple"  
Jun 24 00:48:06 <summatusmentis> lol, it's true
Jun 24 00:49:26 <Linux_Galore> summatusmentis: if you think about it the whole logic of the thing is 1990's and doesnt take into consideration that everything is wireless now and has a fully functional OS so why do you need a big assed table
Jun 24 00:50:37 <summatusmentis> well, interfacing
Jun 24 00:50:45 <summatusmentis> things like most phones interfaces are terrible
Jun 24 00:53:30 <Linux_Galore> summatusmentis: be honest would you spend money on something that will always cost more than a laptop (even a good one) just to read maps and transfer files
Jun 24 00:54:38 <summatusmentis> no, of course not, but if for instance stores had something similar, a kiosk of sorts, quick access to your phone(which had a maps app installed) could be beneficial
Jun 24 00:54:48 <Linux_Galore> if I really needed that type of functionality I would buy a nice laptop with Wimax
Jun 24 00:54:50 <summatusmentis> a public 'monitor' for the phone so to speak, or even just a thumb drive
Jun 24 00:56:07 <Linux_Galore> summatusmentis: yeah, finding a shop that will pay $$$$$ for it with low returns will be fun to see
Jun 24 00:56:28 <summatusmentis> well obviously not now, tha makes no sense
Jun 24 00:56:41 <summatusmentis> but if the technology became more widespread, the cost would go down
Jun 24 00:57:12 <Linux_Galore> summatusmentis: if it gets under US$4k it may work
Jun 24 00:57:31 <Linux_Galore> summatusmentis: yuppie bars will use it to order drinks
Jun 24 00:58:21 <summatusmentis> lol, I'm not saying it's perfect technology, but it's feasible
Jun 24 01:01:49 <Linux_Galore> summatusmentis: I must admit my inner geek goes ooooh 
Jun 24 01:02:04 <summatusmentis> agreed, agreed :-P
Jun 24 01:02:52 <Linux_Galore> bet many people get a openmoko just so they can go, pffft bet you cant do this on an Iphone
Jun 24 01:03:26 <summatusmentis> lol, I wish it were further along, but I'm just impatient
Jun 24 01:04:16 <Linux_Galore> I wonder if you can do remote x sessions on an openmoko  heh play Quake 4 lol
Jun 24 01:05:15 <don-o> Linux_Galore: lol
Jun 24 01:05:25 <don-o> Linux_Galore: there is always text-mode quake.
Jun 24 01:05:29 <sbeh> hm, maybe with some magic of nxClient :)
Jun 24 01:06:14 <summatusmentis> Linux_Galore: X11 forwarding
Jun 24 01:06:49 <Linux_Galore> someone turns up at the office with his iPhone so you pull out your openmoko and start doing remote X sessions stuff, ie Play Quake run Openoffice lol
Jun 24 01:07:13 <summatusmentis> that would rock
Jun 24 01:07:19 <Linux_Galore> what you can even run an office suite on it pffft
Jun 24 01:07:22 <summatusmentis> I get people amazed w/ my Zaurus
Jun 24 01:07:23 <Linux_Galore> cant*
Jun 24 01:08:41 <Linux_Galore> the real power with the openmoko is if you could get a remote X sessions because then you basically have all the grunt of a PC in your hand
Jun 24 01:09:34 <summatusmentis> I don't see why you couldn't do remote X sessions, assuming you have a decent net connection
Jun 24 01:09:44 <summatusmentis> gprs prob. wouldn't cut it
Jun 24 01:10:01 <Linux_Galore> summatusmentis: I do the same with my 5600 (zaurus) I even got a remote Wine MSOffice session going once lol
Jun 24 01:10:48 <summatusmentis> lol, seriously? I don't even have to do anything w/ my 3200, I open it up and people go "oooh... that's SO cool!!!"
Jun 24 01:10:50 <summatusmentis> :-P
Jun 24 01:11:12 <summatusmentis> my ISP blocks all incoming connections, so...
Jun 24 01:11:52 <Linux_Galore> summatusmentis: yeah, well one of the guys showed how he could open a doc file, I just decided to see if I could do a remote Wine session from my desktop machine as I was within range and fsk me it worked
Jun 24 01:12:52 <Linux_Galore> summatusmentis: sorry.. how he could open a doc file on his WM6 PDA Phone
Jun 24 01:13:57 <summatusmentis> abiword ftw
Jun 24 01:14:28 <Linux_Galore> summatusmentis: yeah but having Office2000 running looks more impressive 
Jun 24 01:14:41 <summatusmentis> true
Jun 24 01:14:41 <Linux_Galore> heh
Jun 24 01:15:28 <Linux_Galore> summatus: Im pretty limited to what I can run on a 5600
Jun 24 01:16:00 <Linux_Galore> summatusmentis: do you have one of the clamshell units ?
Jun 24 01:16:14 <summatus|PDA> the neo just needs to be done already, then we can start putting apache and stuff on it :-P
Jun 24 01:16:29 <summatus|PDA> Linux_Galore, yeah, 3200(terrier), 6gb hdd
Jun 24 01:16:46 <Linux_Galore> summatusmentis: you suck
Jun 24 01:16:53 <Linux_Galore> :-P
Jun 24 01:17:04 <summatus|PDA> lol... my 18th b-day present
Jun 24 01:17:44 <Linux_Galore> summatusmentis: I looked at getting one but decided to get a new laptop
Jun 24 01:18:24 <summatus|PDA> I need one of those too, sometime this summer, college
Jun 24 01:18:59 <Linux_Galore> summatusmentis: they are not cheap either, about the same price as a core2 laptop
Jun 24 01:19:33 <summatus|PDA> the 3200? I go mine for about $550
Jun 24 01:19:33 <aloril> summatus|PDA: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.)
Jun 24 01:19:37 <summatus|PDA> USD
Jun 24 01:19:52 <summatus|PDA> aloril, huh?
Jun 24 01:19:56 <Linux_Galore> summatusmentis: you can get a core2 for under $500
Jun 24 01:20:22 <summatus|PDA> oh, core2 yes, not c2d
Jun 24 01:23:00 * summatus|PDA wants a neo!!!
Jun 24 01:25:21 <Linux_Galore> summatus|PDA: I might wait for the improved version if the wait isnt too long
Jun 24 01:26:33 <summatus|PDA> yeah, I know... I'll need a new phone around sept., maybe I can delay it a bit...
Jun 24 01:26:46 <summatus|PDA> I still think it needs 3G
Jun 24 01:27:01 <Linux_Galore> summatus|PDA: I have a N95 already so Im in no real rush
Jun 24 01:27:44 <summatus|PDA> thats the nokia smartphone(Q,blackjack looking thing)?
Jun 24 01:28:18 <SpeedEvil> 3G is very localised though
Jun 24 01:28:31 <SpeedEvil> there are several standards worldwide
Jun 24 01:28:41 <SpeedEvil> (in the generic 'faster than GSM' sense)
Jun 24 01:28:51 <summatus|PDA> I suppose thats true
Jun 24 01:35:33 <empty_mind> what is causing this error http://pastebin.com/934958
Jun 24 01:36:18 <cjb> empty_mind: could be the sh != nash thing.
Jun 24 01:36:56 <empty_mind> cjb, where do i fix this ?
Jun 24 01:37:06 <empty_mind> cjb, or how do i fix this ?
Jun 24 01:37:19 <cjb> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/MokoMakefile at the Before you begin
Jun 24 01:38:33 <empty_mind> cjb, two things. First i am not building image for first time. Second i am not on ubuntu
Jun 24 01:38:59 <cjb> ok, then it could be a bug in that source package
Jun 24 01:39:21 <cjb> (openmoko-tasks)
Jun 24 01:54:10 <empty_mind> anyone else facing problems in compiling openmoko ?
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