**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Jun 27 02:59:56 2007
Jun 27 03:00:09 <don-o> rwhitby: i wish i could convince apple of that :)
Jun 27 03:00:14 <aloril> yes, buggy hardware sold is expensive
Jun 27 03:00:35 <don-o> l
Jun 27 03:01:39 <rwhitby> don-o: congrats on passing the mokomakefile attention span test - now you are qualified to have enough patience to continue being an openmoko developer :-)
Jun 27 03:01:59 <don-o> rwhitby: ha. i was having beers through most of it.
Jun 27 03:02:22 <gcb77> my monomakefile's been going for so many hours...
Jun 27 03:02:22 <rwhitby> another important developer quality ...
Jun 27 03:02:24 * don-o continues following the mokomakefile wiki page
Jun 27 03:03:14 <gcb77> stopped working last night because of git1.4
Jun 27 03:03:23 <gcb77> is it really supposed to take this long?
Jun 27 03:04:01 <don-o> gcb77: my 'make setup' took 3 hours 45 minutes
Jun 27 03:04:02 <summatusmentis> if GTA02 is given to devs for testing, I volunteer to take P1 off of any dev who wants hands
Jun 27 03:04:22 <don-o> gcb77: largely because of monotone
Jun 27 03:04:53 * don-o does time make openmoko-devel-image
Jun 27 03:08:11 * aloril would except betatest to happen *earliest* at September, then add month or few for actual sales (maybe near year end or early next year)
Jun 27 03:10:09 <SpeedEvil> IMO - software will likely hold it up more than hardware
Jun 27 03:10:15 <paulproteus> AlexZhang, By 'beta test' you mean P1 or P1.5 or what?
Jun 27 03:10:24 <paulproteus> I mean, aloril ^^
Jun 27 03:10:46 <aloril> paulproteus: I mean GTA02 (P1.5==P1+)
Jun 27 03:10:46 * Kal_Torak kicks the Atlantic ocean in the nuts
Jun 27 03:10:56 <Kal_Torak> so damn cold :(
Jun 27 03:11:10 <aloril> paulproteus: I would hope P1 has been tested enough because it supposedly goes to sale soon ;-)
Jun 27 03:11:14 <linux_galore> real dev's have clusters heh
Jun 27 03:11:16 * SpeedEvil passes Kal_Torak some lard to slather himself in.
Jun 27 03:11:19 <Kal_Torak> >_<
Jun 27 03:11:33 <aloril> paulproteus: P0/P1 (GTA01Bv3/4 was betatested months ago)
Jun 27 03:11:44 <paulproteus> Ah, /me nods
Jun 27 03:11:48 <Kal_Torak> ...
Jun 27 03:11:49 <summatusmentis> Kal_Torak: where in the world are you at the Atlantic?
Jun 27 03:11:52 <paulproteus> Hmm, I don't actually have seven gigs on this machine.
Jun 27 03:12:08 <Kal_Torak> I stayed the night on an island off the coast of Maine, USA last night
Jun 27 03:12:11 <Kal_Torak> Nice island.
Jun 27 03:12:21 <Kal_Torak> I hate the cold water up here though :|
Jun 27 03:12:24 <summatusmentis> Kal_Torak: MDI?
Jun 27 03:12:38 <Kal_Torak> I know of at least 3 things that MDI stands for.
Jun 27 03:12:39 <summatusmentis> and yeah, there's about one day in August where the Atlantic might be warm enough to swim in
Jun 27 03:12:47 <summatusmentis> Mount Desert Island?
Jun 27 03:12:50 <Kal_Torak> Oh, no
Jun 27 03:12:57 <Kal_Torak> Some little random island
Jun 27 03:13:00 <aloril> SpeedEvil: you mean drivers for new hardware in GTA02?
Jun 27 03:13:12 <summatusmentis> Kal_Torak: I see
Jun 27 03:13:22 * linux_galore loves distcc
Jun 27 03:13:26 <summatusmentis> I live in the middle of Maine, and MDI is usually where people go
Jun 27 03:14:06 <summatusmentis> Kal_Torak: but yeah, Atlantic is un-swimmable
Jun 27 03:14:13 <summatusmentis> at least in ME
Jun 27 03:14:14 <linux_galore> no email back to the factory
Jun 27 03:14:18 <Kal_Torak> Yeah.
Jun 27 03:14:38 <Kal_Torak> I'm going to try it out in North Carolina next summer.
Jun 27 03:14:51 <Kal_Torak> Eh, where in Maine are you?
Jun 27 03:15:07 <summatusmentis> Kal_Torak: Sebec, smack-dab in the middle of the state
Jun 27 03:15:27 <Kal_Torak> nice, I think I've been through there.
Jun 27 03:15:37 <summatusmentis> what?!? noone goes through here
Jun 27 03:15:50 <Kal_Torak> http://www.google.com/maps?q=Kingfield,+ME,+USA&sa=X&oi=map&ct=image
Jun 27 03:15:52 <Kal_Torak> Me.
Jun 27 03:17:16 <summatusmentis> http://www.google.com/maps?saddr=Kingfield,+ME&geocode=&daddr=Sebec,+ME&f=d&sll=45.087096,-70.101013&sspn=0.734934,1.889648&ie=UTF8&ll=45.061882,-69.628601&spn=0.735258,1.889648&z=9&om=1
Jun 27 03:17:17 <summatusmentis> me
Jun 27 03:17:46 <summatusmentis> Why in the world would you go through sebec?
Jun 27 03:18:12 <Kal_Torak> I dunno
Jun 27 03:18:16 <Kal_Torak> It just sounds familiar
Jun 27 03:18:34 <summatusmentis> there's not much north of here... hmm
Jun 27 03:18:38 <SpeedEvil> aloril: no - software - end-user.
Jun 27 03:18:43 <Kal_Torak> I've been all the way north :D
Jun 27 03:18:50 <Kal_Torak> I peeked across the border
Jun 27 03:19:08 <SpeedEvil> aloril: The drivers for all  the hardware is pretty trivial. 
Jun 27 03:19:09 <aloril> SpeedEvil: sure, but that is P2, I'm talking about P1+ (GTA02)
Jun 27 03:19:32 <SpeedEvil> aloril: I would expect the software to delay end-user, more than the hardware.
Jun 27 03:20:10 <summatusmentis> Kal_Torak: well, I've been up to Presque Isle, but only for sports(in HS)
Jun 27 03:20:18 <Kal_Torak> yeah
Jun 27 03:20:24 <Kal_Torak> I've been up there.
Jun 27 03:20:44 <Kal_Torak> Had some friends up near... Houlton I think
Jun 27 03:20:47 <Kal_Torak> somewhere up there
Jun 27 03:20:52 * Kal_Torak waves his arms vaguely northwards
Jun 27 03:20:54 <summatusmentis> cool stuff
Jun 27 03:20:56 <summatusmentis> lol
Jun 27 03:21:04 <aloril> SpeedEvil: ie.. I see 4 stages for GTA02: 1) prototype (happened earlier this month) 2) free betatest with selected developers (similar to what happened with GTA01Bv[34] (P[01]), >=September), 3) GTA02 sold to developers (near year change maybe), 4) Mass market sale (sometime next year)
Jun 27 03:21:28 <SpeedEvil> 1.2 reroll PCB at least prolly
Jun 27 03:22:35 <aloril> 3) GTA02 sold for developers only needs hardware that has been tested and has drivers ;-)
Jun 27 03:31:16 <aloril> summatusmentis: I doubt they would make error of stating *date* of GTA02 availability, more like what it will have (hardware)
Jun 27 03:31:24 <aloril> best date is: "as soon as possible" ;-)
Jun 27 03:31:55 <summatusmentis> aloril: yeah, I know I know
Jun 27 03:32:01 <summatusmentis> I'm just anxious
Jun 27 03:38:29 <aloril> has anybody actually gotten 4GB microSD?
Jun 27 03:42:08 <happycube> newegg dosen't list any (yet)
Jun 27 03:43:58 <happycube> kingston has one with a minisd adapter as well... so you could put a microsd into a minisd and [from somewhere else] an sd
Jun 27 03:44:03 <happycube> *into
Jun 27 03:45:42 <SpeedEvil> I found a vendor claiming stock on froogle,co.uk
Jun 27 03:45:48 <SpeedEvil> I posted it a while back
Jun 27 03:46:16 <SpeedEvil> http://www.onlinememory.co.uk/sandisk-4gb-microsd-card-transflash-p-745.html?currency=GBP&language=en
Jun 27 03:46:22 <SpeedEvil> Also there are some on ebay
Jun 27 03:47:40 <happycube> cool
Jun 27 03:51:19 <aloril> SpeedEvil: yeah, I saw that link, thus ".. actually gotten .." ;-)
Jun 27 03:52:19 <SpeedEvil> Oh
Jun 27 03:54:46 <aloril> some months ago there was page that was selling Neo1973 (don't recall anymore whether it claimed to have them in stock too, probably didn't go that far)
Jun 27 03:55:17 <aloril> $499 or so I think? (yeah, I think somebody was trying to rip up people)
Jun 27 03:56:29 * Kal_Torak considers
Jun 27 03:56:39 <Kal_Torak> I'll check back in a couple months.
Jun 27 03:56:40 <Kal_Torak> ta ta.
Jun 27 03:57:27 <aloril> $495 with mockup images (not images of real Neo1973)
Jun 27 03:58:15 <aloril> actually it was 1.5 months ago (that page not anymore up)
Jun 27 04:08:51 <linux_galore> about USD$180 ouch
Jun 27 04:09:01 <linux_galore> for 4GB
Jun 27 04:10:25 <happycube> owwww
Jun 27 04:15:08 <rwhitby> there have been no reports of actual ability to purchase 4GB microSD.  And we know that FIC guys are looking hard to find some.
Jun 27 04:15:35 <SpeedEvil> 2G seems quite available.
Jun 27 04:19:28 <aloril> reading iPhone reviews: "There's also no way to cut, copy, or paste text." "There's no instant messaging" "you can't use your songs as ringtones. There aren't any games"
Jun 27 04:19:36 * aloril has 2GB microSD already
Jun 27 04:20:40 <linux_galore> aloril: no SDK either
Jun 27 04:20:41 * aloril adds to missing stuff in iPhone: no go game, no freeciv, no gcc, no ... loooooong list ;-)
Jun 27 04:21:03 <cjb> aloril: do you have a port of a goban for the openmoko build, by any chance?
Jun 27 04:21:10 <cjb> aloril: I tried gpe-go, but it crashed (SIGILL)
Jun 27 04:22:03 <linux_galore> aloril: the iPhone should be renamed iLockin_Device_From_Helll
Jun 27 04:22:04 <aloril> cjb: no, didn't see any suitable gtk+ only program also there is no program like what I want so .. I'll code one myself
Jun 27 04:23:04 <aloril> linux_galore: end user device, while Neo1973 is developers device (hopefully in future Neo1973 is both ;-)
Jun 27 04:23:27 <cjb> aloril: what do you want?
Jun 27 04:23:31 <aloril> with end user I mean only those users that don't want to tinker/develop ;-)
Jun 27 04:24:08 <linux_galore> aloril: I showed some of my non developer buddies the NEO1973 images and specs and they all drooled 
Jun 27 04:24:45 <aloril> cjb: http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Go_Teaching_Program
Jun 27 04:25:04 <aloril> linux_galore: oh
Jun 27 04:25:35 <linux_galore> aloril: they all use Linux though so they are convered Linux geeks
Jun 27 04:25:42 <linux_galore> converted*
Jun 27 04:26:29 <aloril> iPhone is like nice house with nice garden, etc.. but its "watch only, no touching or gardening or any tinkering with *anything*
Jun 27 04:26:34 <aloril> "
Jun 27 04:27:06 <cjb> aloril: Jobs said that the web apps can do everything the local ones can
Jun 27 04:27:11 <cjb> so there's clearly some misinformation somewhere
Jun 27 04:27:13 <aloril> linux_galore: OK ;-) (so they don't count as "end users" in sense that they don't like tinkering
Jun 27 04:27:18 <linux_galore> aloril: thats what I told them when I explained the difference, few said they were not going to get an iPhone if its all locked down
Jun 27 04:27:18 <cjb> I don't know what he actually means by that
Jun 27 04:27:28 <cjb> but at the least I'd expect it to mean that, say, local storage is available if you're a webapp
Jun 27 04:28:08 <aloril> umm.. your linux using buddies probably do like tinkering
Jun 27 04:28:22 <cjb> aloril: how strong a go player are you?  :)
Jun 27 04:28:52 <linux_galore> aloril: well they all seem to like to add stuff or do some mild hacking of their hardware
Jun 27 04:28:52 <cjb> aloril: btw, I think igowin already has this mode, on 9x9 -- you start at 30k and it updates your "rank" as you play and win/lose
Jun 27 04:29:36 <aloril> cjb: woah, that opens door to dangerous apps from spam
Jun 27 04:29:59 <aloril> cjb: not open source (and I want more than just that)
Jun 27 04:30:12 <aloril> cjb: maybe 3k at KGS
Jun 27 04:30:33 <cjb> aloril: oh, neat, same here.
Jun 27 04:30:39 * cjb == Kosai.
Jun 27 04:31:20 <linux_galore> cjb: aaah not > or != then, nice to hear
Jun 27 04:31:35 <linux_galore> heh
Jun 27 04:32:04 <cjb> linux_galore: well, there's a steady stream of bullshit coming out from Apple about it, it just means that we don't know what's true and what's isn't.
Jun 27 04:32:21 <cjb> web pages are clearly *not* "just like" native binaries.
Jun 27 04:32:58 <linux_galore> cjb: yeah, having all the developer stuff web based is just moronic in my books
Jun 27 04:33:30 <cjb> aloril: I'd like to see a go learning program that reviews my games and says "hey, dude, right here at move 74, you keep misplaying this joseki, it's supposed to look like this."
Jun 27 04:33:45 <cjb> should be possible already with kombilo and some inference
Jun 27 04:33:48 <linux_galore> cjb: I can see the iPhone turning into some quasi myspace device that looks terrible
Jun 27 04:34:17 <cjb> linux_galore: yeah.  I'm not making any predictions:  people said the iPod was a god-awful idea too.
Jun 27 04:34:50 <linux_galore> cjb: iPOD though does its job really well and doesnt really do much either
Jun 27 04:35:24 <linux_galore> cjb: iPhone is far more complex beast
Jun 27 04:35:26 <aloril> Aloriless (Aloril is reserved for cyborg usage, though seems I haven't used it for long time)
Jun 27 04:35:31 <cjb> linux_galore: right, but at the time people said "who needs a crappy music player that doesn't hold much music and can't do anything except play music"
Jun 27 04:36:17 <linux_galore> cjb: yeah, Apple added iTunes and the whole thing changed
Jun 27 04:36:26 <cjb> aloril: or something like "in 90% of recent games with the mini-chinese, the white player plays here, and you play *here* which is totally why the other dude gets that big moyo and then you die".
Jun 27 04:36:27 <cjb> :)
Jun 27 04:36:57 <aloril> cjb: yeah, especially that joseki should be possible
Jun 27 04:37:15 <cjb> anything where we have a large database of games and can harness percentages
Jun 27 04:37:15 <linux_galore> back to the factory
Jun 27 04:37:39 <cjb> fuseki's obviously easier than joseki, because for joseki you have to know how to limit/rotate/invert colors on a search space.
Jun 27 04:40:01 * aloril thinks 9x9 Go program is great fit with Neo1973 touch screen
Jun 27 04:40:26 <aloril> what can be easier, just touch screen where you want to place stone, even <=3 year should be able to do that
Jun 27 04:41:22 <summatusmentis> there'd better be a sudoku game
Jun 27 04:42:43 <cjb> aloril: I want 19x19 so that I can review pro games on the subway :)
Jun 27 04:44:33 <aloril> cjb: should work OK too (but for small children its harder, but then doubt 3 year old would have stamina for 19x19 game anyway ;-)
Jun 27 04:45:06 <cjb> at least if you're reviewing, the buttons you need are forwards and back :)
Jun 27 04:45:19 <cjb> off to bed now.  let me know if you get anywhere with go on moko, I'll be interested in helping.
Jun 27 04:47:34 <aloril> "Initially it would also flash and mark all intersections where user can play.
Jun 27 04:47:34 <aloril> Gradually it would fade these helps away. This would be configurable too."
Jun 27 04:47:58 <aloril> + other stuff should allow to start play Go without knowing rules and learn them as you go
Jun 27 04:48:20 <SpeedEvil> MoGo!
Jun 27 04:48:44 <aloril> dream would be bare gtk+ go client +  some monte carlo UCT engine + few simple engines (but no GNU Go, too big) to be bundled by default in Neo1973
Jun 27 04:49:12 <aloril> SpeedEvil: that name has been already reserved, its name of strong go program ;-)
Jun 27 04:49:34 * aloril thinks all of this should fit in few hundred KB
Jun 27 04:49:55 <aloril> of course should support loading 19x19 games too ;-)
Jun 27 06:12:38 <wiml> counter
Jun 27 06:12:38 <aloril> http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (60% for P1<=2007-07-07) 60% for *news* in 05:23:38 (0.225±0.2 days) (1603;239)
Jun 27 06:30:21 <gcb77> counter
Jun 27 06:30:21 <aloril> http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (60% for P1<=2007-07-07) 60% for *news* in 05:14:47 (0.219±0.2 days) (1604;240)
Jun 27 06:32:57 <cdbot2> * * OM Bug 621 has been created by autobuild-reports(AT)openmoko.org
Jun 27 06:32:58 <cdbot2> * * openmoko-tasks-0.1+svnnow-r0_252-do_compile
Jun 27 06:32:59 <cdbot2> * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=621
Jun 27 06:38:30 <CM> Heh, autobuild managed to report it before I did :/
Jun 27 06:40:20 <ynezz> do you know what is used for autobuilds? 
Jun 27 06:41:10 <ynezz> if it's buildbot or something else?
Jun 27 06:42:42 <CM> Don't know, but I think I've heard buildbot mentioned before
Jun 27 06:45:45 <rwhitby> it's tinderbox I believe
Jun 27 06:45:57 <rwhitby> zecke runs it for OE and OM
Jun 27 06:46:13 <rwhitby> look in oe/classes/tinderclient.bbclass
Jun 27 06:47:21 <rwhitby> the bug reporting, however, is done by seppuku
Jun 27 06:47:26 <rwhitby> see http://www.openembedded.org/wiki/AutoBug
Jun 27 06:48:44 <CM> rwhitby: Thanks, good to know :)
Jun 27 06:51:06 <Sup3rkiddo> we have a new autobuild?
Jun 27 06:51:57 <Sup3rkiddo> cool
Jun 27 06:53:38 <aloril> (script) planet: Marcin "hrw" Juszkiewicz: How to buy Neo1973 phone http://blog.haerwu.biz/2007/06/27/how-to-buy-neo1973-phone/
Jun 27 06:55:44 <aloril> hrw|gone: second place now ;-)
Jun 27 06:56:49 <aloril> ( [[Neo1973]] is at first place )
Jun 27 07:11:32 <TRIsoft> morning
Jun 27 07:11:53 <xkr47> counter
Jun 27 07:11:54 <aloril> http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (60% for P1<=2007-07-07) 60% for *news* in 04:54:01 (0.204±0.2 days) (1605;240)
Jun 27 07:12:03 <xkr47> 9 hours still
Jun 27 07:14:47 <ynezz> rwhitby: thanks for info
Jun 27 07:14:55 <rwhitby> np
Jun 27 07:15:04 <CM> I really don't see why Sean is so terribly afraid of saying anything
Jun 27 07:15:39 <CM> It's always "We'll do an announcement soon", then silence
Jun 27 07:16:17 <linux_galore> god Im so sick of iPhone articles,  Im making a greasemonkey plugin to remove iPhone article heh
Jun 27 07:16:34 <linux_galore> articles*
Jun 27 07:19:30 <xkr47> :)
Jun 27 07:20:26 <aloril> CM: I *suspect* this time announce is "it" (or that is plan)
Jun 27 07:24:28 <aloril> linux_galore: ooh, then you won't like this (I did warn you!): http://newsd0.topsite2007.com/Tops-Search-Freetards-are-trying-to-make-an-iPhone-clone/
Jun 27 07:31:02 <CM> aloril: Hehe
Jun 27 07:31:03 <aloril> "A camera module is expected to be added in a later revision of the hardware." http://www.channelweb.co.uk/vnunet/news/2192036/first-open-source-mobile-phone
Jun 27 07:31:19 <wehttamb_> counter
Jun 27 07:31:20 <aloril> http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (60% for P1<=2007-07-07) 60% for *news* in 04:44:18 (0.197±0.2 days) (1606;240)
Jun 27 07:33:15 <Hopscotch> good morning
Jun 27 07:33:51 * xkr47 thinks the phone should have a lego-like back where you could plug in camera modules and stuff :)
Jun 27 07:44:16 <mjr> it would be nice to the plug-hackability if the internal usb (per default housing a AIUI somewhat detachable BT module) could be exposed to the back
Jun 27 07:49:55 <aloril> which will happen first: being able to order Neo1973 (yay!) or being able to buy iPhone (don't care personally) ?
Jun 27 07:55:41 <buz> counter
Jun 27 07:55:41 <aloril> http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (60% for P1<=2007-07-07) 60% for *news* in 04:32:07 (0.189±0.2 days) (1607;240)
Jun 27 07:55:57 <aloril> woah, iPhone OS uses lots of space: "700 megabytes is occupied by the phone’s software." ( http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/27/technology/circuits/27pogue.html )
Jun 27 07:56:13 <aloril> "Making a call, though, can take as many as six steps: wake the phone, unlock its buttons, summon the Home screen, open the Phone program, view the Recent Calls or speed-dial list, and select a name."
Jun 27 07:56:20 <xkr47> probably 1600x1200 images :)
Jun 27 07:56:59 <aloril> signature (unique for every person) unlocking was earlier idea
Jun 27 07:57:25 <aloril> above gave this new idea: gesture program launching: make certain gesture and given program launches
Jun 27 07:58:07 <aloril> so to call: signature unlock + gesture call + find number to call (or gesture for common numbers)
Jun 27 07:58:26 <aloril> all of that for commonly called numbers could take less than 1s
Jun 27 08:05:08 <aloril> s/launch/lanuch or switch to/
Jun 27 08:57:18 <aloril> (script) openmoko-community: Sean Moss-Pultz <sean at openmoko.com> Re: rough seas
Jun 27 08:58:14 <aloril> oh, ok, I'll add a day ;-)
Jun 27 08:59:00 <aloril> counter
Jun 27 08:59:00 <aloril> http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (60% for P1<=2007-07-07) 60% for *news* in 13:30:27 (0.563±0.6 days) (1608;240)
Jun 27 08:59:12 <aloril> (actually 24-5h)
Jun 27 09:00:02 * FuzzyCat looks around eagerly
Jun 27 09:06:17 <aloril> counter_msg http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (65% for P1<=2007-07-07) 75% for *news* in
Jun 27 09:06:17 <aloril> aloril changed counter prefix message to http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (65% for P1<=2007-07-07) 75% for *news* in 
Jun 27 09:08:27 <aloril> "The delay is not writing the announcement, but finalizing things internally so we can publicly commit. " (Sean)
Jun 27 09:10:32 <aloril> so it was Thursday already when he wrote it first, hmm..
Jun 27 09:14:09 <aloril> added 5h back, so now it covers whole Thursday at Taiwan + 1h fuzzy factor
Jun 27 09:14:12 <aloril> counter
Jun 27 09:14:12 <aloril> http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (65% for P1<=2007-07-07) 75% for *news* in 15:52:51 (0.662±0.7 days) (1609;240)
Jun 27 09:14:43 <aloril> above mail at http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2007-June/005996.html
Jun 27 09:17:41 <florian> good morning
Jun 27 09:22:48 <FuzzyCat> lo
Jun 27 09:23:30 <Stephmw> mornin
Jun 27 09:27:40 <ravan_> aloril: why is it 75% for *news* ? shouldn't it be 100% ?
Jun 27 09:28:16 <alphaone> ravan_: You just never know :-)
Jun 27 09:28:27 <aloril> well, giving 1/4 chance that they are not able to "finalizing things internally" in time
Jun 27 09:29:27 <FuzzyCat> ...tick tock tick tock....
Jun 27 09:30:37 <Kero> a quarter? what "things" are not possible to estimate to cost either more or less than one working day?
Jun 27 09:32:37 * buz wonders if there is ar6000 based notebook card?
Jun 27 09:32:51 <webjames> i thought we would hear something yesterday - no matter i've got my driving theory test tomorrow
Jun 27 09:32:53 <Kero> but I'll be happy to finally hear the announcement I;'ve been waiting for so long...
Jun 27 09:33:34 <buz> webjames: good luck then
Jun 27 09:34:34 <webjames> buz, thanks buz - it's the hazard perception bit i can't seem to crack, strange i'm quite good at clicking a mouse!
Jun 27 09:34:41 <CIA-17> openmoko: 03stefan * r2346 10/trunk/oe/conf/distro/include/preferred-openmoko-versions.inc: 
Jun 27 09:34:41 <CIA-17> openmoko: * As usual. Until #621 is fixed upstream we stay with an older, compiling,
Jun 27 09:34:41 <CIA-17> openmoko:  version.
Jun 27 09:35:03 <aloril> Kero: I think any amount of stuff might take more than a day to do
Jun 27 09:35:28 <Elrond> !ombug 621
Jun 27 09:35:28 <cdbot2> * * Bug 621, Status: NEW, Created: Unknown
Jun 27 09:35:29 <cdbot2> * * autobuild-reports(AT)openmoko.org: openmoko-tasks-0.1+svnnow-r0_252-do_compile
Jun 27 09:35:31 <cdbot2> * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=621
Jun 27 09:35:52 <buz> i dunno about your country, but in switzerland it's basically learn questions by heart.
Jun 27 09:35:58 <buz> some are completely illogical
Jun 27 09:37:15 <webjames> yeah, we have that to, but we also have this other test where they play a video and you have to click a mouse when you see a hazard, and more when it develops, but it you click too much you get 0
Jun 27 09:37:58 <Kero> aloril: might take, yes; but without knowing a day in advance, Oops!
Jun 27 09:39:32 <buz> ah thats interesting thing
Jun 27 09:39:37 <buz> not completely braindead like ours
Jun 27 09:40:09 <buz> one cant buy intel wireless cards right?
Jun 27 09:40:30 <Kero> aloril: I do software in an agile way, we plan and track many things. My boss&customer would be upset if I can't tell today what will be done the next day (not that they should ask every day... that would not be agile...)
Jun 27 09:40:30 <ewon> huh?
Jun 27 09:40:36 <Kero> (and now lunch)
Jun 27 09:40:45 <ewon> I like writing research code
Jun 27 09:40:54 <webjames> buz, not truly, but the women said after i took mine and failed the hazard bit that "i might be clicking too fast, so when i see the hazard wait then click" anyway we'll see what happens tomorrow
Jun 27 09:43:22 <Elrond> BTW: Is the current openmoko-panel-mainmenu still trying to suspend th phine, etc?
Jun 27 09:44:10 <stefan_schmidt> Elrond: Not by default
Jun 27 09:44:57 <aloril> counter_msg http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (70% for P1<=2007-07-07) 90% for *news* in
Jun 27 09:44:58 <aloril> aloril changed counter prefix message to http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (70% for P1<=2007-07-07) 90% for *news* in 
Jun 27 09:45:12 <aloril> Kero: OK, I'll give 10% probability for oops
Jun 27 09:46:48 <Elrond> stefan_schmidt - Ahh, good. So I can upgrade without fearing it trying to suspend the phone while I'm working via ssh on it. :-)
Jun 27 09:49:15 <buz> so sean promises to make the announcement really soon now (tm)
Jun 27 09:49:56 <mmp> buz: really soon = now? :)
Jun 27 09:52:37 <rd_> umm
Jun 27 09:52:41 <rd_> not now :D
Jun 27 09:52:45 <rd_> i guess so
Jun 27 09:53:20 <rd_> aloril, i would give 80% for *news*
Jun 27 09:53:21 <rd_> :)
Jun 27 09:54:33 <aloril> rd_: hehe
Jun 27 09:54:45 <aloril> maybe it is today actually.. hoping
Jun 27 09:55:17 <aloril> 60% for today and 30% for tomorrow and 10% for later
Jun 27 10:03:26 <CIA-17> openmoko: 03stefan * r2347 10/trunk/oe/conf/distro/include/preferred-openmoko-versions.inc: * Fixed upstream
Jun 27 10:05:45 <CM> Yay, just compiled it :)
Jun 27 10:13:06 * zecke wonders what the relation between koto and tasks is
Jun 27 10:13:58 <stefan_schmidt> zecke: AFAIK koto is the start to share code between tasks and contacts
Jun 27 10:14:09 <hrw> zecke: OH use japanese names for projects
Jun 27 10:14:19 <hrw> stefan_schmidt: this is hito iirc
Jun 27 10:14:41 <stefan_schmidt> hrw: hmm
Jun 27 10:15:06 <zecke> hrw: for letter words only?
Jun 27 10:15:27 <stefan_schmidt> hrw: Ah, you are right: http://www.burtonini.com/blog/computers/hito-2007-06-18-19-50
Jun 27 10:15:46 * zecke wonders if OH will ever consider sepukku as project name...
Jun 27 10:18:55 <buz> mhh what would sepukku be? port to winmobile?
Jun 27 10:19:26 <zecke> that would be up to OH
Jun 27 10:19:48 <buz> yeah but it would have to be a sufficiently insane project to warrant the name
Jun 27 10:20:21 <zecke> agreed
Jun 27 10:20:59 <stefan_schmidt> zecke: You could call a closed GL project sepukku. ;)
Jun 27 10:21:11 <bluelightning> or kamikaze perhaps... :)
Jun 27 10:21:47 <Elrond> stefan_schmidt - *lol* ;-)
Jun 27 10:21:50 <hrw> bluelightning: kamikaze is openwrt distro version already
Jun 27 10:22:38 <zecke>  stefan_schmidt http://macslow.thepimp.net/  :)
Jun 27 10:23:14 <Elrond> Anybody can recommend a stable, useable, stable, terninal jabber client?
Jun 27 10:23:22 <stefan_schmidt> zecke: I guessed that already. :)
Jun 27 10:23:25 <zecke> ;)
Jun 27 10:24:02 <buz> Elrond: terninal=console ?
Jun 27 10:24:21 <bluelightning> hrw: oh ok, didn't know that
Jun 27 10:24:35 <Elrond> buz - Yep.
Jun 27 10:24:44 <Elrond> buz - ==screen.
Jun 27 10:24:45 <buz> not sure if that even exists
Jun 27 10:25:17 <zecke> Elrond: I would recommend pidgin.im but I have not yet used the terminal version
Jun 27 10:25:22 <hrw> 12:25 hrw@home:~$ apt-cache search jabber console
Jun 27 10:25:22 <hrw> cabber - Easy and basic jabber console client
Jun 27 10:25:22 <hrw> freetalk - a console based Jabber client
Jun 27 10:25:22 <hrw> mcabber - Small Jabber console client
Jun 27 10:25:23 <alphaone> Elrond: xmpp4r and do it yourself?
Jun 27 10:25:30 <hrw> few to choose
Jun 27 10:26:08 <Elrond> alphaone - hehe. :-)
Jun 27 10:26:20 <Kensan> Elrond: try irssi+bitlbee
Jun 27 10:26:23 <Elrond> hrw - I asked for "recommend". ;o))
Jun 27 10:26:37 <Elrond> Kensan - Ahh. :)
Jun 27 10:33:48 <stefan_schmidt> holtmann, Elrond: New build on the buildhost is on the way.
Jun 27 10:37:48 <aloril> (script) planet: Holger "zecke" Freyther: Pythong Bindings, where is the source http://zecke.blogspot.com/2007/06/pythong-bindings-where-is-source.html
Jun 27 10:48:08 <Dvalin> hm
Jun 27 10:48:21 <Dvalin> I tried looking at the wiki and finding out where to buy without luck
Jun 27 10:48:26 <Dvalin> can someone help me? :)
Jun 27 10:48:26 <aloril> Commands: counter (see estimated time until P1), counter_msg (set message for counter), faq (link to FAQ in wiki)
Jun 27 10:49:48 <Kero> no, you can't buy, yet
Jun 27 10:50:33 <Kero> but if you stick around, say 24h, you might hear it together with the rest of us :)
Jun 27 10:51:53 <aloril> counter
Jun 27 10:51:53 <aloril> http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (70% for P1<=2007-07-07) 90% for *news* in 15:04:01 (0.628±0.6 days) (1610;240)
Jun 27 10:53:41 <Kero> aloril: 10% now huh? :)  I have no idea whether you are close enough to taiwan to know what Sean meant with "things".
Jun 27 10:54:12 <aloril> Kero: hehe
Jun 27 10:54:24 <Dvalin> ah
Jun 27 10:55:11 * Dvalin only skimmed through topic, only read "Anyone can buy fo $350" and not the "starting perhaps any week" part ;)
Jun 27 10:58:01 <Dvalin> so noone knows when? d'oh, I blindly trusted the nice man with the nice phone at FOSDEM who said it would be available around this time :(
Jun 27 11:00:02 <Kero> Dvalin: the 24h is rather serious
Jun 27 11:00:18 <SpeedEvil> Well - ...
Jun 27 11:00:43 <SpeedEvil> There have been delays.
Jun 27 11:00:52 <SpeedEvil> There may continue to be delays.
Jun 27 11:05:37 <Dvalin> oh, so there'll be some official announcement tomorrow?
Jun 27 11:05:56 <SpeedEvil> Probably.
Jun 27 11:06:00 <Dvalin> okay
Jun 27 11:06:07 <SpeedEvil> It was said a week, a week ago
Jun 27 11:06:12 * Dvalin lurks around a bit then
Jun 27 11:06:44 <Dvalin> is the wiki admin around here btw.?
Jun 27 11:07:21 <SpeedEvil> Why?
Jun 27 11:07:48 * SpeedEvil is not the admin, though he may have nearly the highest number of edits.
Jun 27 11:07:53 <Dvalin> I only wanted to greet him, met him at drank a bit with him at FOSDEM, nice guy :)
Jun 27 11:07:59 <SpeedEvil> ah
Jun 27 11:08:19 <Dvalin> he did a good job at promoting openmoko at coridors and booze hours under FOSDEM :D
Jun 27 11:08:38 <Dvalin> s/good/great/ :D
Jun 27 11:10:21 <amarsh04> most recent news: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2007-June/005996.html
Jun 27 11:11:13 <aloril> Dvalin: or announcement could be today too, maybe even more likely
Jun 27 11:11:25 <Dvalin> okay
Jun 27 11:12:06 <Dvalin> I'll stay around for it then, then I can tell my grand children that I was present at the announcement of openmoko availability! :o)
Jun 27 11:12:24 <aloril> hehe
Jun 27 11:13:23 <Dvalin> a long with my imaginary stories about my war hero efforts and being the first man on mars etc.
Jun 27 11:13:40 <Dvalin> I'll be a great granddad :D
Jun 27 11:14:10 <SpeedEvil> Don't be silly - that's impossible.
Jun 27 11:14:20 <amarsh04> in .au we can look up our grandfathers' WWI records and find out how many times they were court-martialed
Jun 27 11:14:21 <SpeedEvil> I'm going to be the first man on mars :)
Jun 27 11:14:54 <amarsh04> just as well they didn't release that until after the WWI veterans had passed away
Jun 27 11:24:41 <SpeedEvil> Tehy haven't all passed away though
Jun 27 11:24:51 <SpeedEvil> Or have they in .au
Jun 27 11:26:15 <amarsh04> just about all in .au
Jun 27 11:26:17 <SpeedEvil> Oh - I apparently missed that - the last UK vet departed in 2006
Jun 27 11:27:34 <SpeedEvil> http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/last-wwi-veteran-dies/2005/10/18/1129401230173.html
Jun 27 11:28:01 * amarsh04 clicks
Jun 27 11:31:08 <aloril> (script) openmoko-devel: "Michael 'Mickey' Lauer" <mickey at openmoko.org> Re: Help.. How to apply patch to BitBake recipe file?
Jun 27 11:36:52 <Placid> I never receive announcement mails from the announce list :(
Jun 27 11:44:48 <aloril> Placid: there hasn't been any since April
Jun 27 11:44:58 <Placid> ahhh
Jun 27 11:45:07 <Placid> lol thanks, that'll explain it.
Jun 27 11:45:22 <Placid> aloril: Isn't that one from today though? (re: <amarsh04> most recent news: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2007-June/005996.html)
Jun 27 11:45:52 <aloril> that is not announce mailing list, its community list ;-)
Jun 27 11:47:35 <Placid> oooh
Jun 27 11:47:36 <Placid> I see
Jun 27 11:47:39 <Placid> I'll sign up to that one then
Jun 27 11:47:41 <Placid> Thanks aloril :)
Jun 27 11:49:02 <Elrond> stefan_schmidt - Great. :-)
Jun 27 11:51:39 <CIA-17> openmoko: 03laforge * r2348 10/trunk/src/target/u-boot/patches/uboot-gta02.patch: * implement backlight control for GTA02
Jun 27 12:04:10 <cheesy> counter
Jun 27 12:04:11 <aloril> http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (70% for P1<=2007-07-07) 90% for *news* in 14:27:52 (0.603±0.6 days) (1611;240)
Jun 27 12:07:50 <cheesy> seems like there is nothing happening...
Jun 27 12:08:17 <cheesy> no news, no release, no free phone
Jun 27 12:11:28 <summatusmentis> waiting
Jun 27 12:11:32 <summatusmentis> waiting is happpening
Jun 27 12:11:55 <summatusmentis> and lots of joining and quittting
Jun 27 12:18:39 <cheesy> :)
Jun 27 12:19:16 <cheesy> now the iPhone will be released before the neo
Jun 27 12:19:39 <cheesy> :/
Jun 27 12:20:13 <Gybrush> is the neo comparable?
Jun 27 12:21:03 <buz> partly
Jun 27 12:21:05 <zell1983> cheesy, so?
Jun 27 12:21:06 <Mortimus> streetwise it blows it away other than that I have no idea
Jun 27 12:21:09 <zell1983> neo is better
Jun 27 12:21:14 <Mortimus> *screen wise
Jun 27 12:21:27 <buz> also neo has gps but iphone has cam
Jun 27 12:21:33 <buz> and you can write software for neo
Jun 27 12:21:42 <buz> (no you CAN'T write software for the iphone)
Jun 27 12:21:59 <Mortimus> so you can use a usb cam as an alternative
Jun 27 12:22:20 <Gybrush> has neo a touch screen interface?
Jun 27 12:22:27 <Mortimus> yes
Jun 27 12:22:39 <Gybrush> nice
Jun 27 12:23:44 <Mortimus> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Category:Neo1973_Hardware
Jun 27 12:23:49 <Mortimus> there are the specs
Jun 27 12:24:04 <raster> mu
Jun 27 12:26:34 <Mortimus> I think that the Iphone has accelerometers to screw people over warranty wise
Jun 27 12:26:44 <raster> hmmm
Jun 27 12:27:02 <raster> this jtag mojo isn't being happy lucky fun time with de-bricking
Jun 27 12:29:19 <hrw> buz: you can write apps for iphone probably. but no one wil be able to install it ;D
Jun 27 12:30:13 <Gybrush> hrw, heh :D
Jun 27 12:30:26 <raster> including you
Jun 27 12:30:27 <raster> :)
Jun 27 12:34:06 * rwhitby wonders whether "pythong" is a new language that zecke is writing ...
Jun 27 12:50:44 <buz> Py-Thong
Jun 27 12:51:01 * buz thinks of snake skin thongs, shudders
Jun 27 13:02:18 <CM> buz: Hehe.. Scary thought ;)
Jun 27 13:34:02 <kiney> counter
Jun 27 13:34:02 <aloril> http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (70% for P1<=2007-07-07) 90% for *news* in 13:42:56 (0.571±0.6 days) (1612;240)
Jun 27 13:36:20 <buz> mpf
Jun 27 13:36:28 <buz> this morning it was less than 11hours
Jun 27 13:37:26 <aloril> buz: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2007-June/005996.html
Jun 27 13:37:35 <buz> yeah i know ;)
Jun 27 13:40:48 <CM> aloril: Ah, nice :)
Jun 27 13:42:15 <SpeedEvil> Just put it at the year 2525, and if it comes early, we can have a nice surprise.
Jun 27 13:43:18 <Mortimus> i don't think this time its going to be a let down
Jun 27 13:43:34 * DerCorny prepares his credit card
Jun 27 13:43:59 <DerCorny> feels better than waiting for christmas
Jun 27 13:44:09 <Mortimus> I personally am waiting for the GTA02 series
Jun 27 13:44:29 <buz> Mortimus: so am i, but it really depends on the discount p1 buyers get
Jun 27 13:44:55 <Mortimus> never considered that
Jun 27 13:44:55 <DerCorny> i'll pass the p1 to my little brother and take the p2
Jun 27 13:45:26 * raster continues his de-bricking efforts
Jun 27 13:45:41 <mjr> DerCorny, yeah. Fiancée here.
Jun 27 13:46:05 * SpeedEvil wanders off to look at more GPS stuff.
Jun 27 13:49:19 <Kero> just don't announce in the next hour while I'm in a meeting, OK? :)
Jun 27 13:50:45 <Stephmw> so you're going into the meeting in 10mins?
Jun 27 13:50:54 * Stephmw informs the PR department
Jun 27 13:52:10 <Kero> wait until the evening, I'll be offline for a couple of hours.
Jun 27 13:52:43 * Stephmw tells the PR department "HOLD YOUR HORSES"
Jun 27 13:58:56 <Placid> i'm waiting on p1.5 ;)
Jun 27 13:59:36 <LoDown> counter
Jun 27 13:59:37 <aloril> http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (70% for P1<=2007-07-07) 90% for *news* in 13:30:09 (0.563±0.6 days) (1613;240)
Jun 27 13:59:42 <raster> aha!!!!
Jun 27 13:59:46 <raster> minicom's fault!
Jun 27 13:59:49 <raster> aaargh!
Jun 27 14:02:07 <ruimoreira> hello
Jun 27 14:02:39 <ruimoreira> i whould like to start with openmoko software development 
Jun 27 14:02:49 <ruimoreira> can anyone give me a few pointers 
Jun 27 14:02:54 <ruimoreira> on wich tools to use ?
Jun 27 14:02:55 <aloril> ruimoreira: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.)
Jun 27 14:03:39 <CM> ruimoreira: Basically, take a look at the mokomakefile :)
Jun 27 14:04:07 <ruimoreira> ok
Jun 27 14:04:13 <ruimoreira> i am setting it up 
Jun 27 14:04:15 <ruimoreira> :P
Jun 27 14:05:02 <ruimoreira> anyone from portugal here ?
Jun 27 14:05:33 <ruimoreira> cm do you mean this ?
Jun 27 14:05:33 <ruimoreira> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/MokoMakefile
Jun 27 14:06:24 <CM> ruimoreira: Yes. Use INHERIT += "rm_work", or it will take about 10gb of disk space to build
Jun 27 14:07:10 <CM> ruimoreira: I just finished the complete qemu-build from scratch, and it took about 7hours on a 3000+ amd with 1gb ram
Jun 27 14:07:51 <ruimoreira> wow
Jun 27 14:07:51 <ruimoreira> :P
Jun 27 14:07:55 <ruimoreira> ok 
Jun 27 14:08:06 <ruimoreira> i am very enthusiastic about this project 
Jun 27 14:08:33 <raster> lucky
Jun 27 14:08:41 <CM> You've found it at a good time. We're expecting an announcement of availablity soon :)
Jun 27 14:08:46 <raster> my neo currently is a happy-fun-time brick
Jun 27 14:08:54 <Stephmw> CM: ccache+distcc installed and working?
Jun 27 14:09:24 <CM> Stephmw: Not distcc, only have one comp up and running atm
Jun 27 14:09:52 <ruimoreira> :)
Jun 27 14:09:54 <CM> Stephmw: I do have ccache installed, but not configured correctly.
Jun 27 14:10:16 <ruimoreira> any news about shipment to europe ?
Jun 27 14:10:18 <CM> Stephmw: It broke too many gentoo builds ;)
Jun 27 14:11:14 <aloril> ruimoreira: should ship internationally
Jun 27 14:11:45 <ruimoreira> hope it doesen't cost a load of money to ship
Jun 27 14:11:46 <ruimoreira> ...
Jun 27 14:12:46 <ruimoreira> is there any place where i can volunteer to help development ? 
Jun 27 14:12:51 <ruimoreira> sorry about all the questions 
Jun 27 14:13:18 <Stephmw> CM: ahh, shame, I remember it being very, very useful :(
Jun 27 14:13:19 <slider_> from what i have heard there will be a shipment-hub in europe...so this might not be a problem
Jun 27 14:13:38 <Stephmw> CM: cutting OE build times down a lot (~3 years back mind you)
Jun 27 14:13:56 <ruimoreira> thks slider_
Jun 27 14:14:27 <slider_> ruimoreira: for open tasks see http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Freshman_todo
Jun 27 14:14:35 <CM> Stephmw: Ok. Cut down time on gentoo too, but was a hassle to keep turning it on and off when about 1 in 5 of the builds failed
Jun 27 14:14:53 <aloril> ruimoreira: hopefully in 24h we hear more
Jun 27 14:15:33 <CM> slider_: Nice page, haven't seen that one before. 
Jun 27 14:17:58 <Stephmw> CM: might be worthwhile working in a chroot... or find a way to enable it just during OE/OM builds
Jun 27 14:18:09 <juco> wow! the iPhone doesn't use a SIM
Jun 27 14:18:11 <juco> http://online.wsj.com/article/SB118289311361649057.html?mod=blogs
Jun 27 14:18:13 <slider_> CN: stefan_schmidt posted it on the community-list some weeks ago.. but i dunno if this is still up-to-date
Jun 27 14:18:19 <juco> at least according to that report
Jun 27 14:18:23 <CM> Stephmw: I'll look into that. Thanks for the tip. :)
Jun 27 14:18:37 <Stephmw> juco: even if it did, you could be certain the software would be simlocked
Jun 27 14:18:40 <Stephmw> CM: np
Jun 27 14:19:41 <juco> yeah, but simlocks are usually reversible by the carrier
Jun 27 14:20:10 <Stephmw> simlocks usually are addressed via a reflash (by carriers or your friendly local reflasher)
Jun 27 14:20:17 <juco> that's incredible, I can't believe someone is selling a GSM phone that doesn't use a SIM
Jun 27 14:20:54 <juco> Stephmw, sure you can reflash, but most phones that I use accept an "unlock code" when presented with a different sim
Jun 27 14:21:16 <Stephmw> in the UK there are PAYG phones that have epoxied simcards... might as well not have em ;)
Jun 27 14:21:35 <juco> I use AT&T, and at least in the past, they would provide that code providing the user was under contract
Jun 27 14:21:39 <Stephmw> juco: what manufacturers?
Jun 27 14:21:43 <ruimoreira> juco:  if it does not use a sim how does it work ?
Jun 27 14:21:56 <Stephmw> ruimoreira: you can do everything a SIMcard can in software
Jun 27 14:22:01 <juco> ruimoreira, I don't know, I just saw that article and popped over here
Jun 27 14:22:10 <ruimoreira> weird 
Jun 27 14:22:11 <ruimoreira> :D
Jun 27 14:22:27 <Stephmw> the joys of lockin
Jun 27 14:22:31 <ruimoreira> but then it must be locked down to e certain provider right ?
Jun 27 14:22:42 <juco> the iphone? yes
Jun 27 14:22:45 <juco> AT&T only
Jun 27 14:22:48 <ruimoreira> i thought so 
Jun 27 14:22:53 <ruimoreira> lol
Jun 27 14:22:55 <juco> they haven't announced the terms of that deal
Jun 27 14:23:06 <juco> but I'm guessing it will be AT&T exclusive for some period of time
Jun 27 14:23:12 <ruimoreira> i have friends here that are anxious for it 
Jun 27 14:23:23 <Stephmw> 2 years at least iirc
Jun 27 14:23:24 <ruimoreira> i think they will be disapointed :P
Jun 27 14:23:29 <juco> that's great news
Jun 27 14:23:33 <juco> at least I think so
Jun 27 14:24:04 <ruimoreira> i prefer openmoko :P i love freedom :D 
Jun 27 14:24:18 <juco> how about this for a slogan "OpenMoko -- sort of like the iPhone, but without as much sucking"
Jun 27 14:24:26 <ruimoreira> :D
Jun 27 14:24:53 <ruimoreira> a bit strong no ?
Jun 27 14:27:38 <Stephmw> I've had people compare the iphone's hardware (not the software) to the Nokia 7710: http://www.nokia.co.in/nokia/0,,66158,00.html
Jun 27 14:27:53 <Stephmw> and that's not exactly a new phone
Jun 27 14:30:31 <juco> while I'm here, when the phase 1 phones ship, that will be all that one would need to write and load userland software, right?
Jun 27 14:31:07 <juco> the debug board is just for driver development, right?
Jun 27 14:31:41 <ewon> AFAIR, all one will need is a cross compiler and some method of getting the resultant binary to the phone
Jun 27 14:31:52 <ewon> notionally, it's just a small linux box with some extra hardware :)
Jun 27 14:32:20 <juco> sure, but it doesn't have a bios, right?
Jun 27 14:33:01 <aloril> juco: wrong way around: iPhone -- sort of like OpenMoko but with more ... ;-)
Jun 27 14:33:27 <ewon> juco: it doesn't?
Jun 27 14:33:28 <aloril> Neo1973 was clearly announced first, dunno which project started first though
Jun 27 14:33:42 <ewon> I have no idea really, all I know is from my Zaurus dev days
Jun 27 14:34:26 <ruimoreira> as soon as i have my device , i will make a presentation on my local lug 
Jun 27 14:34:38 <ruimoreira> is there any multimedia stuff  i can use ?
Jun 27 14:45:31 <ruimoreira> i can't seem to find a email client on my emulated openmoko 
Jun 27 14:45:35 <ruimoreira> is there one ?
Jun 27 14:52:14 <buz> i dont think so
Jun 27 14:52:30 <buz> not yet anyway
Jun 27 14:53:00 <ruimoreira> thks
Jun 27 14:55:10 <don-o> 2.5 hours into the openmoko build, the disk fills up :(
Jun 27 14:57:44 <webjames> don-o.. shame :(
Jun 27 14:59:54 <aloril> ruimoreira: you can install your own favorite though (its 'just' a Linux after all)
Jun 27 15:00:20 * paulproteus totally is going to try alpine...
Jun 27 15:00:51 <webjames> i think arn't they using evolution stuff so it's easily syncable with opensync?
Jun 27 15:00:57 <ruimoreira> aloril ;) 
Jun 27 15:00:57 <ruimoreira> :P
Jun 27 15:02:33 <apic> Mir ist (seehr wahrscheinlich von dem Seroquel) ein bisschen schwindlig.
Jun 27 15:02:59 <mjr> webjames, maybe some of the backend stuff like e-d-s, I'd doubt we want to run evo itself ;)
Jun 27 15:03:06 <don-o> any new hardward news?
Jun 27 15:03:23 <webjames> mjr, no no not what i'd call lightweight
Jun 27 15:04:24 <buz> lol, apparently the iphone cant do copy paste
Jun 27 15:04:57 <webjames> buz, did i hear right: the iphone does not also have a sim card?
Jun 27 15:05:09 <buz> its a gsm phone
Jun 27 15:05:15 <buz> i dont think they exist withotu sim
Jun 27 15:05:18 <buz> never seen one though
Jun 27 15:05:29 <buz> it has simcard but its simlocke
Jun 27 15:05:30 <buz> d
Jun 27 15:05:44 <webjames> buz: http://www.slashgear.com/more-iphone-news-no-sim-slot-045562.php
Jun 27 15:05:52 <mjr> Hmh. Guess if they really wanted to they could integrate a Cingular SIM to make double-sure you're not free to do what you want, but...
Jun 27 15:07:08 <mjr> would seem. just. wrong
Jun 27 15:07:12 <webjames> haha, openmoko, iphone ; chalk, cheese
Jun 27 15:07:32 <Stephmw> mjr: epoxy resin is every AT&T sales rep's friend
Jun 27 15:07:53 <webjames> as the article states: customers expect to be able to swap sim cards around phones
Jun 27 15:08:03 <mjr> webjames, yeah, at least around here
Jun 27 15:08:33 <juco> yeah, my biggest beef with RIM is that you have to have "blackberry service"
Jun 27 15:08:41 <ruimoreira> sorry about the stupid question , openmoko DOES accept standard sim cards right ?
Jun 27 15:08:47 <buz> sure
Jun 27 15:08:51 <juco> which, at least from my provider, can not be on the same sim as normal data plans
Jun 27 15:09:01 <antenagora> counter
Jun 27 15:09:01 <aloril> http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (70% for P1<=2007-07-07) 90% for *news* in 12:55:27 (0.539±0.5 days) (1614;240)
Jun 27 15:09:01 <webjames> ruimoreira, yeh, and they're not glued in!
Jun 27 15:09:03 <mjr> ruimoreira, Neo. Neo will accept.
Jun 27 15:09:13 <ruimoreira> mjr: your are right 
Jun 27 15:09:14 <ruimoreira> ....
Jun 27 15:09:28 <ruimoreira> sorry
Jun 27 15:09:38 * mjr is all pedantic except when he himself is talking
Jun 27 15:11:32 <Sup3rkiddo> counter
Jun 27 15:11:32 <aloril> http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (70% for P1<=2007-07-07) 90% for *news* in 12:54:12 (0.538±0.5 days) (1615;240)
Jun 27 15:11:39 <Sup3rkiddo> oo..nice
Jun 27 15:11:46 <webjames> oo indeedy!
Jun 27 15:12:02 * webjames bites his nails
Jun 27 15:12:07 * Sup3rkiddo too
Jun 27 15:12:38 * Kero ain't not goin' to bite no webjames nails...
Jun 27 15:12:55 <Sup3rkiddo> :S
Jun 27 15:13:04 * webjames waves
Jun 27 15:13:36 * cheesy don't like all this biting
Jun 27 15:13:44 <Sup3rkiddo> mmmm..nails
Jun 27 15:16:04 <PBeck> tag
Jun 27 15:37:52 <woglinde> 1~1~1~1~1~1~1~1~1~1~1~1~1~1~1~1~13~
Jun 27 15:39:14 <Placid> o,0
Jun 27 15:40:32 <woglinde> that was my son
Jun 27 15:40:55 <don-o> woglinde: looks like he'l already writing turing machine tapes :)
Jun 27 15:40:59 <zecke> woglinde: before he is break that DIGITAL keyboard, give it to me
Jun 27 15:43:34 <xkr47> counter
Jun 27 15:43:34 <aloril> http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (70% for P1<=2007-07-07) 90% for *news* in 12:38:11 (0.527±0.5 days) (1616;240)
Jun 27 15:44:16 <xkr47> if only sometimes the counter said "you missed the event, go read your mails!!!"
Jun 27 15:45:18 <aloril> hmm.. maybe I should add something like "counter page last update at"
Jun 27 15:45:44 <aloril> anyway, when big event happens, it should reflect that soon
Jun 27 15:52:08 <aloril> (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Hardware_Developer/it]]
Jun 27 15:57:12 <xkr47> maybe the counter could show how long it was since the last milestone/announcement also
Jun 27 15:57:15 <xkr47> :)
Jun 27 16:02:33 <aloril> about 30 minutes to go if strictly in a week, if same date next week Taiwan time:  aboutr 24h to go
Jun 27 16:03:25 <SpeedEvil> Seen the latest email?
Jun 27 16:03:29 <SpeedEvil> saying 'day to go'
Jun 27 16:03:45 <SpeedEvil> what time is it in .tw now?
Jun 27 16:03:58 <SpeedEvil> Is it -10 ot something - so 7AM?
Jun 27 16:04:00 <aloril> 00:03 (24h)
Jun 27 16:05:18 <aloril> second last mail was before 00:30 Thursday and it has turned into Thursday few minutes ago at Taiwan
Jun 27 16:08:38 <aloril> counter_msg (last update 2007-06-27T09:44) http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (70% for P1<=2007-07-07) 90% for *news* in
Jun 27 16:08:38 <aloril> aloril changed counter prefix message to (last update 2007-06-27T09:44) http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (70% for P1<=2007-07-07) 90% for *news* in 
Jun 27 16:08:40 <CIA-17> openmoko: 03laforge * r2349 10/trunk/src/target/kernel/patches/smedia-glamo.patch: 
Jun 27 16:08:40 <CIA-17> openmoko: continued smedia glamo framebuffer driver development to a point where it
Jun 27 16:08:40 <CIA-17> openmoko: actually has working VGA output on the GTA02
Jun 27 16:08:59 <aloril> (using time from Recentchanges page)
Jun 27 16:09:10 <SpeedEvil> Hmm
Jun 27 16:09:26 <CIA-17> openmoko: 03laforge * r2350 10/trunk/src/target/kernel/patches/gta02-core.patch: GTA02: use GLAMO GPIO SPI bit-banging
Jun 27 16:25:27 <aloril> hmm.. "finalizing things internally" == "making things ready so you can order" ? (okay, maybe its organizational structure that is being changed (almost done) and not ordering, but ..)
Jun 27 16:26:06 <so_solid_moo> I got the impression it was the latter, myself.
Jun 27 16:29:14 <SpeedEvil> IMO - he's meditating.
Jun 27 16:29:22 <SpeedEvil> That's what finalising things internally means.
Jun 27 16:29:29 <DerCorny> lol
Jun 27 16:30:27 <Stephmw> or he's introspecting his liver
Jun 27 16:31:37 <aloril> its now week since "rough seas" mail was announced here
Jun 27 16:32:18 <aloril> still 23.5h left of Thursday though
Jun 27 16:33:01 <aloril> (counter has 1h extra 'fudge factor' ;-)
Jun 27 16:35:21 <paulproteus> aloril, is monitoring the progress of the Neo your full time job?
Jun 27 16:35:25 <paulproteus> If so, totally awesome. (-:
Jun 27 16:38:04 <aloril> hehe, not really, but I wait quite anxiously with credit card ready so I don't miss ;-)
Jun 27 16:38:37 <aloril> (scripts should even awake me when announcement happens and/or webshop opens)
Jun 27 16:38:56 <paulproteus> lol, awesome.
Jun 27 16:42:41 <webjames> Ben or Ojw here? 
Jun 27 17:02:08 <aloril> its starting to look like its at least 7-9h away now
Jun 27 17:02:32 <mintee> what's that?
Jun 27 17:03:19 <aloril> announcement
Jun 27 17:03:34 <aloril> counter
Jun 27 17:03:34 <aloril> (last update 2007-06-27T09:44) http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (70% for P1<=2007-07-07) 90% for *news* in 11:58:11 (0.499±0.5 days) (1617;240)
Jun 27 17:03:45 <aloril> see above page for links to mails
Jun 27 17:05:11 <mintee> Maybe: EDGE (Upgrade)  :'(
Jun 27 17:05:16 * mintee hopes so
Jun 27 17:06:43 <mjr> edge would be rather nice for p2, but not holding breath
Jun 27 17:08:07 <aloril> it was literally "Maybe" in slide in tossug video
Jun 27 17:08:40 <mjr> yah, it was also maybe-mentioned in Tampere, but very maybely
Jun 27 17:09:28 <mjr> edge would be quite 3g enough for me for a good while
Jun 27 17:10:22 <zecke> mjr: do you live in a country with edge?
Jun 27 17:10:31 * mintee is currently using EVDO via verizon and it would be a shame to have to downgrade
Jun 27 17:11:16 <mjr> zecke, oh yes, and umts/hdspa as well
Jun 27 17:11:46 <aloril> isn't EVDO CDMA and not supported by GSM networks (unline UMTS/HDSPA)?
Jun 27 17:12:01 <mjr> yes it is
Jun 27 17:12:25 <mjr> so mintee will be looking at a downgrade in bandwidth if going Neo
Jun 27 17:12:38 <mintee> yep
Jun 27 17:12:47 <mintee> but that's ok, cause verizon is the devil
Jun 27 17:12:57 <juco> my experience with edge and hsdpa is that the radio bandswidth is rarely the bottleneck
Jun 27 17:13:52 <juco> I was using a phone with hsdpa, and actually found the hsdpa service to be slower in one US city than the edge service in another
Jun 27 17:14:12 <mjr> your actual user experience may vary, yes :]
Jun 27 17:15:52 <gamin> counter
Jun 27 17:15:53 <aloril> (last update 2007-06-27T09:44) http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (70% for P1<=2007-07-07) 90% for *news* in 11:52:01 (0.494±0.5 days) (1618;240)
Jun 27 17:19:46 <gamin> counter
Jun 27 17:19:46 <aloril> (last update 2007-06-27T09:44) http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (70% for P1<=2007-07-07) 90% for *news* in 11:50:05 (0.493±0.5 days) (1619;240)
Jun 27 17:20:16 <gamin> 90% for news...
Jun 27 17:21:00 <gamin> maybe sean could open a webshop where we can buy news >:-o
Jun 27 17:21:28 <aloril> hehe
Jun 27 17:21:31 <xkr47> that could make a fortune :)
Jun 27 17:21:55 <aloril> or maybe I'm too optimistic
Jun 27 17:24:48 <gamin> SEAAAN! Are you out there? Pleaaase give us news!   I bid 10$. Who bids more?
Jun 27 17:25:46 <aloril> 01:24 (AM) at Taiwan now
Jun 27 17:25:53 <gamin> I see the IRC-lurker there in the second row with the green shirt? 20$? Anyone more?
Jun 27 17:26:49 <gamin> aloril - last message from 20th june was written at midnicht too...
Jun 27 17:27:04 <gamin> midnight even
Jun 27 17:27:43 <aloril> gamin: yes, but see message from today, it talks about 'same date' indirectly
Jun 27 17:27:44 * xkr47 guesses there are some 1000 guys out there monitoring at 27 minute intervals whether sean has posted anything new
Jun 27 17:28:06 <buz> 27min? you gotta be kdding me
Jun 27 17:28:12 <buz> try 3 min ;)
Jun 27 17:28:15 <xkr47> :)
Jun 27 17:28:21 <aloril> and it was about 0.5h past midnight which gives almost full extra day for him when you count at day granularity instead of 1s granularity ;-)
Jun 27 17:29:24 <gamin> I wonder if they will send a container to europe and ship the phones from within = less shipping costs, faster, no hassle with customs
Jun 27 17:31:16 <webjames> do you think they'll be enough to go around?
Jun 27 17:32:06 <SpeedEvil> I think it's substantially less than a container alas.
Jun 27 17:32:45 <xkr47> as long as they don't send it with air france
Jun 27 17:32:50 <xkr47> it'll be lost for days or weeks
Jun 27 17:32:57 <xkr47> or british airways
Jun 27 17:35:32 <SpeedEvil> If it's air france, don't they burn it on the way in?
Jun 27 17:35:43 <SpeedEvil> In support of the french phone industry?
Jun 27 17:42:21 <LuitvD> counter
Jun 27 17:42:21 <aloril> (last update 2007-06-27T09:44) http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (70% for P1<=2007-07-07) 90% for *news* in 11:38:47 (0.485±0.5 days) (1620;240)
Jun 27 17:42:30 <LuitvD> lol
Jun 27 17:53:09 <aloril> (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Press_Coverage]]
Jun 27 17:53:43 <webjames> i've got a standard gps with waas at the moment, will the neo's agps be more accurate and suitable for OSM mapping?
Jun 27 17:53:57 <SpeedEvil> Less accurate at first.
Jun 27 17:54:08 <SpeedEvil> Potentially more accurate eventually.
Jun 27 17:54:30 <Elrond> Why less accurate? Because of missing waas?
Jun 27 17:54:33 <webjames> right, so i wont raise funds by selling my gps!
Jun 27 17:54:33 <SpeedEvil> There is work going on on an open-source driver for the GPS.
Jun 27 17:54:39 <SpeedEvil> yes, no WAAS.
Jun 27 17:55:08 <SpeedEvil> For OSM - with an open-source driver, you wouldn't log positions, for example, You'd log psuedoranges.
Jun 27 17:55:28 <SpeedEvil> And correct once you get back home using downloaded error information.
Jun 27 17:55:45 <SpeedEvil> This could be at worst WAAS, or it could be more local and better.
Jun 27 17:55:48 <Elrond> Are tools available for that
Jun 27 17:55:48 <Elrond> ?
Jun 27 17:56:10 <SpeedEvil> I _think_ there are open-source tools to do that.
Jun 27 17:56:34 <SpeedEvil> It's not fundamentally hugely complex - you just put off hte position determining bit till you get back home.
Jun 27 17:56:45 <webjames> could i do that with my current data i'm getting? i use gpsbabel atm?
Jun 27 17:56:46 <SpeedEvil> And put in corrections as you then decode.
Jun 27 17:56:55 <SpeedEvil> I don't think so.
Jun 27 17:57:04 <SpeedEvil> At least not from straight NMEA
Jun 27 17:57:11 <Elrond> sirf3 binary has pseudoranges in it...
Jun 27 17:57:14 <SpeedEvil> you would need psuedoranges
Jun 27 17:57:23 <Elrond> Or one can request it. I think.
Jun 27 17:57:27 <SpeedEvil> if you can log those, then in principle, yes.
Jun 27 17:57:49 <SpeedEvil> However, I've not looked at if software to do this exists.
Jun 27 17:57:49 <webjames> right, i'm not sure thats an option
Jun 27 17:57:55 <Elrond> A friend's sirf3 speaks nice sirfbinary.
Jun 27 17:58:10 <Elrond> We never played with the pseudoranges.
Jun 27 17:58:21 <Elrond> We will, when I understand more of the GLHH stuff.
Jun 27 18:00:21 <Elrond> On my list for this or next week is the faraday test. ;-)
Jun 27 18:01:58 <Elrond> OT: How far is this liuux project to put swap times onto normal process scheduling, so that processes, that do lots of swapping finally get less CPU (if one puts them on high-nice).
Jun 27 18:10:30 <Lorphos> counter
Jun 27 18:10:30 <aloril> (last update 2007-06-27T09:44) http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (70% for P1<=2007-07-07) 90% for *news* in 11:24:42 (0.475±0.5 days) (1621;241)
Jun 27 18:10:59 <aloril2> there should be about 1000 Neo1973's by now
Jun 27 18:12:33 <ynezz> where?!
Jun 27 18:13:17 <ynezz> are they smuggling them? (thats why there is no status update)
Jun 27 18:15:37 <aloril2> actually its not yet full 2 weeks since factory status update
Jun 27 18:19:00 <PBeck> re
Jun 27 18:42:33 <MuffY> when does this day end in the Taiwanese timezone? =p
Jun 27 18:43:57 <summatusmentis> taiwanese?
Jun 27 18:44:05 <summatusmentis> is that where the manufacturing is located?
Jun 27 18:47:16 <woglinde> thats where FIC has his headquarter
Jun 27 18:48:47 <summatusmentis> oh I see
Jun 27 18:53:47 <tg> its UTC+8
Jun 27 19:16:22 <thomasg_> so this day should be over now in taiwan
Jun 27 19:18:11 <zecke> mickeyl: did you receive the mokojournal patch?
Jun 27 19:21:53 <aloril2> MuffY: this day over + 1h in Taiwan:
Jun 27 19:22:01 <aloril2> counter
Jun 27 19:22:02 <aloril> (last update 2007-06-27T09:44) http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (70% for P1<=2007-07-07) 90% for *news* in 10:48:57 (0.451±0.5 days) (1622;241)
Jun 27 19:22:30 <MuffY> =D=D
Jun 27 19:23:39 <aloril2> (multiply by 2 to get upper limit)
Jun 27 19:23:48 <MuffY> =p
Jun 27 19:25:24 <greggypoo> i am a frequently asked question: is there anything that looks like a release date for the neo1973 or any other openmoko phones?
Jun 27 19:25:25 <aloril> greggypoo: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.)
Jun 27 19:25:28 <greggypoo> ah :)
Jun 27 19:26:50 <DerCorny> aloril: soon. maybe within hours, maybe not
Jun 27 19:27:39 <guaqua> counter
Jun 27 19:27:40 <aloril> (last update 2007-06-27T09:44) http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (70% for P1<=2007-07-07) 90% for *news* in 10:46:08 (0.449±0.4 days) (1623;241)
Jun 27 19:34:45 <MuffY> aarrg
Jun 27 19:34:48 <MuffY> neewwssssss
Jun 27 19:35:06 <summatusmentis> NO! THERE SHALL BE NO NEWS!!!
Jun 27 19:35:08 <MuffY> I feel like Cartman in the Nintende Wii episode of Southpark
Jun 27 19:35:17 <bartel> ha!
Jun 27 19:35:30 <MuffY> summatusmentis: It's in The Book of OpenMoko?
Jun 27 19:35:31 <DerCorny> heh, i just realized that i talked to the wrong person
Jun 27 19:35:49 <zell1983> LOL MuffY 
Jun 27 19:36:00 <MuffY> come onnnn
Jun 27 19:36:04 <zell1983> :D
Jun 27 19:36:05 <MuffY> come ooonnnn
Jun 27 19:36:56 <bartel> take me up to the mountain and freeze me until the moko comes out
Jun 27 19:37:31 <MuffY> but, won't that kill you?
Jun 27 19:38:10 <MuffY> bartel: In the future, we only use Windows based technology. There is no such things as "freedom".
Jun 27 19:38:12 <MuffY> =p
Jun 27 19:38:14 <summatusmentis> MuffY: exactly, look it up
Jun 27 19:38:19 <LuitvD> bartel: give me a call when you're in the future ;)
Jun 27 19:38:27 <bartel> LuitvD: will do
Jun 27 19:42:03 <Placid> bartel: that's not a bad ida
Jun 27 19:42:19 <Placid> bartel: we should all climb a mountain and refuse to eat and to come down until they release it :)
Jun 27 19:54:08 <don-o> bartel: it worked for han solo. good idea.
Jun 27 19:54:20 <woglinde> lol
Jun 27 19:54:30 <don-o> hasnt the 'one week' timer run out for the next hardware annoncement.
Jun 27 19:54:43 <don-o> even the annoucements *about* the hardware are late!
Jun 27 19:55:54 <Mortimus> counter
Jun 27 19:55:55 <aloril> (last update 2007-06-27T09:44) http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (70% for P1<=2007-07-07) 90% for *news* in 10:32:00 (0.439±0.4 days) (1624;241)
Jun 27 19:57:22 <orospakr> anyone have a Neo1973 at OLS I can drool over?
Jun 27 19:59:38 <woglinde> ols?
Jun 27 20:05:13 <miip> orospakr: OLS?
Jun 27 20:05:25 <orospakr> miip: Linux Symposium.
Jun 27 20:05:31 <orospakr> big conference running right now.
Jun 27 20:05:38 <miip> where?
Jun 27 20:05:46 <koen> Ottawa
Jun 27 20:05:52 <miip> ahh
Jun 27 20:06:33 <koen> OLS this year sucks because the OLS people pissed of the kernel dudes last year and the kernel summit is in europe this year
Jun 27 20:10:16 <roh> hrr.. wrong continent for hackers
Jun 27 20:50:58 <webjames> where'd everyone go?
Jun 27 20:51:20 <zecke> netsplit?
Jun 27 20:52:56 <minime> no, neo1973 is now being sold and everyone is at the webshop
Jun 27 20:53:13 <minime> just kiddin' ;)
Jun 27 20:53:22 <mmp> minime: grr, don't do that
Jun 27 20:53:31 * mmp was just about to launch browser
Jun 27 20:53:32 <mmp> :)
Jun 27 20:53:33 <summatusmentis> minime: that sort of joking is not even close to funny!!!
Jun 27 20:53:33 * SpeedEvil stabs minime with a duck.
Jun 27 20:53:41 <summatusmentis> mmp: I was about to open a new tab
Jun 27 20:54:08 <minime> after all it shows, there ARE people in here 
Jun 27 20:54:33 <summatusmentis> you just made 2 of them quit in disgust :-)
Jun 27 20:54:35 <mmp> not just us, robots? :)
Jun 27 20:57:31 * webjames wiggles browsing fingers
Jun 27 20:58:34 <webjames> SpeedEvil, do you run the tiles@home software?
Jun 27 20:59:14 <Elrond> Hmm, should clicking long on the "panel-mainmenu" show the finger mainmenu?
Jun 27 20:59:19 <SpeedEvil> No, webjames.
Jun 27 20:59:48 * SpeedEvil has a PII/300, and a duron 1300.
Jun 27 21:00:34 * webjames was wondering if i could could run tiles@home in parallel
Jun 27 21:01:05 * webjames can't talk about himself in the third person very well
Jun 27 21:01:12 <Elrond> "in parallel"?
Jun 27 21:01:50 <webjames> yeah, like two running at once
Jun 27 21:02:02 <webjames> each using one core to render the bit of map
Jun 27 21:02:07 <webjames> 'tiles' if you like
Jun 27 21:02:17 <don-o> webjames: doesnt the client already make use of multiple cores?
Jun 27 21:02:28 <webjames> doesn't seem to on mine
Jun 27 21:02:37 <summatusmentis> most of those @home projects have a link on the site about multiple CPU(or in this case cores) setups
Jun 27 21:03:26 <webjames> i suppose it can either render stuff twice as fast, or i can render two times as much twice as slow. it seems to be working anyway
Jun 27 21:03:40 <webjames> do you think the neo will ever go dual core?
Jun 27 21:03:58 <webjames> now that would be good, not sure on battery life though
Jun 27 21:04:42 <CM> webjames: Probably great for batterylife, as long as it's good power management
Jun 27 21:04:52 <CM> Just shut down one core completely :)
Jun 27 21:05:01 <webjames> ah brilliant, of course!
Jun 27 21:05:26 <SpeedEvil> I want to put another core in it.
Jun 27 21:05:26 * webjames circles his ear with his finger "der"
Jun 27 21:05:30 <SpeedEvil> Though only a PIC
Jun 27 21:05:38 <webjames> a PIC?
Jun 27 21:05:50 <SpeedEvil> http://www.microchip.com/ small microcontroller.
Jun 27 21:05:53 <webjames> !google define:pic
Jun 27 21:05:54 <cdbot2> A designation for a main, or default, long distance company. Although it is an oxymoron, some areas allow an IntraLATA PIC to select a long distance carrier for calls made within the LATA. @ http://www.answerstat.com/articles/glossary.html ( http://www.google.com/search?hl=all&q=define:pic ) 
Jun 27 21:06:03 <SpeedEvil> few dozen bytes of RAM, few K of ROM
Jun 27 21:06:16 <webjames> ah right
Jun 27 21:06:22 <SpeedEvil> !google define:microchip pic
Jun 27 21:06:23 <cdbot2> Sorry, no search results were found.
Jun 27 21:07:40 <webjames> for some things it's good
Jun 27 21:07:53 <webjames> acronyms not so good
Jun 27 21:11:13 <summatusmentis> SOMEONE GIVE SOME SORT OF NEWS!!!
Jun 27 21:11:55 <webjames> you know what they say "no news is good news". actually i'm not sure who they are, but they are WRONG!
Jun 27 21:12:18 <summatusmentis> webjames++
Jun 27 21:12:34 <summatusmentis> you're exactly right, no news means that there's a massive cover-up
Jun 27 21:12:55 <Stephmw> and it must involve aliens.
Jun 27 21:13:03 <Stephmw> and deep cavity searches.
Jun 27 21:13:10 <Stephmw> and US customs.
Jun 27 21:13:17 <summatusmentis> Stephmw: aliens are what make a cover-up, duh!
Jun 27 21:13:17 <CM> Did you all see Seans mail today? http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2007-June/005996.html
Jun 27 21:13:33 <summatusmentis> it's not a cover-up if there aren't aliens
Jun 27 21:13:39 <CM> Just saying "Almost done", but still. It's a sound! :-)
Jun 27 21:13:56 <CM> (or at least a message that he's still alive)
Jun 27 21:14:16 <Stephmw> judging from all the jetting around and the weird work hours, that's a blessing
Jun 27 21:14:25 <summatusmentis> CM: that == no news :-)
Jun 27 21:14:40 <thomasg_> but taiwaneses time (as he says) or not: I recieved the mail a week before yesterdays evening :)
Jun 27 21:14:57 <CM> He's clearly cheating.. It will be 8 days ;)
Jun 27 21:15:59 <thomasg_> correct. but however, I think we can really count on a new post on the announce-list within the next 20 hours :)
Jun 27 21:17:09 <summatusmentis> I've only got 6 or 7 till I have to sleep :-/
Jun 27 21:18:02 <thomasg_> I have to sleep now, its almost 12 pm here :)
Jun 27 21:18:29 <thomasg_> but I hate sleeping (or I hate going to bed, sleeping is ok ^^)
Jun 27 21:19:09 <idarwin> as rod mckuen says, you should go to bed with a good book, or somebody that's read one
Jun 27 21:19:44 <idarwin> s/that/who/
Jun 27 21:19:44 <apt> idarwin meant: as rod mckuen says, you should go to bed with a good book, or somebody who's read one
Jun 27 21:20:31 * Elrond finally created a "halt.desktop", so he can properly shutdown the phone from the menu. :-)
Jun 27 21:23:19 <webjames> Elrond, good, i was wondering why that wasn't there :)
Jun 27 21:23:42 <Elrond> webjames - Well, it's only on my phone. I can give it to you, if you want it.
Jun 27 21:23:52 <Elrond> ... if you have an icon, it would be better, even.
Jun 27 21:24:34 <webjames> i might design one
Jun 27 21:24:37 <Elrond> webjames - Well, it's not there, because you're expected to press the power-button for 1 second and choose "Power-Off" from the popup-menu.   But that doesn't work for me.
Jun 27 21:24:54 <webjames> what size should it be?
Jun 27 21:25:07 <Elrond> Huh, good question.
Jun 27 21:28:18 <Elrond> webjames - http://svn.openmoko.org/trunk/oe/packages/openmoko-apps/openmoko-terminal/openmoko-terminal.png
Jun 27 21:28:27 <Elrond> One example icon.
Jun 27 21:29:56 <don-o> how much disk space does the openmoko build need?
Jun 27 21:30:18 <webjames> thanks
Jun 27 21:31:29 <paulproteus> don-o, The mokomakefile wiki page says 7GiB.
Jun 27 21:31:38 <don-o> paulproteus: thx.
Jun 27 21:33:32 <Elrond> OM% du -sh .
Jun 27 21:33:32 <Elrond> 1.1G    .
Jun 27 21:33:52 <Elrond> But that's a limited build. No X11, no gtk, no Openmoko. ;o)
Jun 27 21:34:01 <paulproteus> Well...
Jun 27 21:34:50 <Stephmw> does that include all the intermediary object files too?
Jun 27 21:35:12 <Elrond> Stephmw - In my case: Only half. I added the rm_work thingy only in the middle. ;-)
Jun 27 21:35:28 <Elrond> Stephmw - I think, the 7GB estimate is including those.
Jun 27 21:36:09 <Stephmw> ahh
Jun 27 21:49:40 <CoreDump|home> hi
Jun 27 21:50:42 <ruimoreira> can anyone here help me with the MonoMakefile ?
Jun 27 21:50:47 <ruimoreira> i am getting a error 
Jun 27 21:51:58 <Kero> counter
Jun 27 21:51:58 <aloril> (last update 2007-06-27T09:44) http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (70% for P1<=2007-07-07) 90% for *news* in 09:33:59 (0.399±0.4 days) (1625;241)
Jun 27 21:52:16 <paulproteus> ruimoreira, Say the error and we'll see what we can do.
Jun 27 21:52:35 <paulproteus> In general it's better to ask the question and wait for a reply rather than ask if you can ask a question!
Jun 27 21:52:35 <ruimoreira> NOTE: Task failed: /home/moko/build/tmp/work/armv4t-linux/ncurses-5.4-r8/temp/log.do_install.3556
Jun 27 21:52:36 <ruimoreira> NOTE: package ncurses-5.4-r8: task do_install: failed
Jun 27 21:52:36 <ruimoreira> ERROR: TaskFailed event exception, aborting
Jun 27 21:52:36 <ruimoreira> NOTE: package ncurses-5.4: failed
Jun 27 21:52:36 <ruimoreira> ERROR: Build of openmoko-devel-image failed
Jun 27 21:52:42 <ruimoreira> lol
Jun 27 21:53:08 <ruimoreira> your right .... but this could be the wrong place to post the question 
Jun 27 21:53:30 <ruimoreira> ........
Jun 27 22:00:28 <webjames> Elrond, well i've made something, bearing in mind this is my first icon, how could i send you it?
Jun 27 22:00:39 <aevin> bayimg! :-P
Jun 27 22:01:30 <SpeedEvil> Stupid question. Why does MMF/... take so much disk? Is it simply the source/objects of all the packages?
Jun 27 22:01:32 <LuitvD> counter
Jun 27 22:01:32 <aloril> (last update 2007-06-27T09:44) http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (70% for P1<=2007-07-07) 90% for *news* in 09:29:11 (0.395±0.4 days) (1626;241)
Jun 27 22:01:34 <LuitvD> hmm
Jun 27 22:01:53 <LuitvD> can't go to sleep with that ...
Jun 27 22:05:04 <Kensan> ruimoreira: what does /home/moko/build/tmp/work/armv4t-linux/ncurses-5.4-r8/temp/log.do_install.3556 say? Can you post it to pastebin?
Jun 27 22:05:24 <ruimoreira> yeap
Jun 27 22:05:56 <ruimoreira> nothing muche 
Jun 27 22:05:58 <ruimoreira> much
Jun 27 22:05:58 <ruimoreira> ....
Jun 27 22:06:01 <ruimoreira> -> oe_runmake failed
Jun 27 22:06:12 <Kensan> btw, rwithby would argue it called MokoMakefile.
Jun 27 22:06:50 <ruimoreira> oops
Jun 27 22:07:39 <Kensan> can you put the logs in pastebin?
Jun 27 22:07:49 <aloril> (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[User_talk:Sean]] [[Talk:Application_Manager]]
Jun 27 22:09:36 <ruimoreira> sorry .... pastebin ?
Jun 27 22:09:54 <CoreDump|home> ~pastebin
Jun 27 22:09:55 <apt> [pastebin] a place to paste your stuff without flooding the channel - try  http://pastebin.ca, or http://channels.debian.net/paste, or http://rafb.net/paste/, or http://pastebin.com is usually painfully too slow and unresponsive to use, use one of the other pastebin sites, or dpaste.com is a very nice pastebin as well
Jun 27 22:10:06 <ruimoreira> ok
Jun 27 22:12:13 <ruimoreira> just a sec.....
Jun 27 22:12:39 <ruimoreira> here 
Jun 27 22:12:40 <ruimoreira> http://pastebin.com/937903
Jun 27 22:13:41 <bartel> pastebin.osuosl.org
Jun 27 22:17:37 <Elrond> webjames - mail? dcc? upload somewhere?
Jun 27 22:18:11 <Elrond> SpeedEvil - space: Yes. whole X11 build for example.
Jun 27 22:18:52 <Kensan> ruimoreira, what distro are you using?
Jun 27 22:19:17 <ruimoreira> fedora 7
Jun 27 22:19:23 <SpeedEvil> Elrond: thanks.
Jun 27 22:19:56 <ruimoreira> gcc 4.1.2 btw
Jun 27 22:20:40 <Kensan> ruimoreira: this might help: http://www.dream-multimedia-tv.de/board/thread.php?threadid=4191
Jun 27 22:20:52 <ruimoreira> thks
Jun 27 22:22:28 <ruimoreira> got it 
Jun 27 22:23:49 <Kensan> ruimoreira: some more info: http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/bug-ncurses/2005-08/msg00022.html
Jun 27 22:26:42 <Elrond> SpeedEvil - http://en.pastebin.ca/592766
Jun 27 22:27:25 <SpeedEvil> thanks.
Jun 27 22:29:32 <Elrond> SpeedEvil - If you _only_ want to build openmoko GUI libraries and apps for your host, and accept "you don't get the OpenMoko theme, but your default Gtk-Theme", a very simple build in about 100MB is possible. I have build openmoko-messages in about 46MB.
Jun 27 22:35:23 <summatusmentis> can someone explain to me why there is gonna be a stylus w/ the neo?
Jun 27 22:35:58 <CoreDump|home> summatusmentis: because you'd need one to use the touchscreen
Jun 27 22:37:03 <summatusmentis> CoreDump|home: I thought it was gonna be 'finger-touch' sensitive?
Jun 27 22:37:07 <Elrond> summatusmentis - Because there are stylus based apps.
Jun 27 22:37:15 <Elrond> summatusmentis - Both.
Jun 27 22:37:16 <CoreDump|home> exactly
Jun 27 22:37:24 <summatusmentis> oh, that's bothersome
Jun 27 22:37:31 <summatusmentis> particularly if there's no silo built in
Jun 27 22:37:46 <CoreDump|home> normal phone function will be usable w/ your fingers
Jun 27 22:38:40 <summatusmentis> I thought everything would be finger usage
Jun 27 22:38:41 <summatusmentis> ok
Jun 27 22:38:55 <summatusmentis> I guess if there's plans for stylus based apps, having a stylus makes sense :-)
Jun 27 22:40:22 <Elrond> Those apps already exist partly.
Jun 27 22:40:36 <summatusmentis> ok, fair enough
Jun 27 22:41:23 <summatusmentis> the casing isn't gonna change at all, to hold a stylus is it?
Jun 27 22:41:23 <CoreDump|home> summatusmentis: text input w/o a stylus would be almost impossible.
Jun 27 22:41:49 <Elrond> CoreDump|home - In landscape mode it would be somewhat possible.
Jun 27 22:42:04 <Elrond> CoreDump|home - I can handle some of the stylus based apps using my fingernail.
Jun 27 22:42:12 <gcb77> with accelerometers you could tilt to scroll :)
Jun 27 22:42:23 <CoreDump|home> gcb77: that would rule
Jun 27 22:42:38 <Elrond> gcb77 - *duck* You're invited to implement that. ;-)
Jun 27 22:42:41 <summatusmentis> that really would
Jun 27 22:42:56 <gcb77> working on it... one step at a time... makefile first
Jun 27 22:43:25 <Elrond> gcb77 - Please excuse this. :-)  (I was pissed by one project's answer to all questions "send patches".)
Jun 27 22:43:46 <CoreDump|home> the correct answer would have been "Patches welcome" ;)
Jun 27 22:44:40 <summatusmentis> I don't know, I think some cool things could be done for text input w/out a stylus
Jun 27 22:44:49 <Elrond> CoreDump|home - I don't know the exact wording, but it was pretty close to "send patches".
Jun 27 22:44:56 <CoreDump|home> ;)
Jun 27 22:53:06 <summatusmentis> CoreDump|home, Elrond: is there gonna be an easy way to transport stylus?
Jun 27 22:53:34 <CoreDump|home> it fits inside neos bag
Jun 27 22:53:42 <Elrond> summatusmentis - The stylus looks like a pen, so you can carry it like a normal pen.
Jun 27 22:53:55 <ynezz> or like rambo knife!
Jun 27 22:53:55 <Elrond> CoreDump|home - Oh, it fits in the pouch?
Jun 27 22:54:07 <Elrond> (I didn't get the pouch)
Jun 27 22:54:26 <CoreDump|home> yep
Jun 27 22:54:35 <summatusmentis> pouch? cool
Jun 27 22:54:57 <summatusmentis> Elrond: I'm used to the Zaurus Stylii, not easily carried in a pocket
Jun 27 22:57:16 <Elrond> summatusmentis - http://www.flickr.com/photos/koenkooi/412593301/  (you wont get the debug board + FPC + other debugtools, that's an extra item)
Jun 27 23:00:35 <summatusmentis> Elrond: thanks! I like that look better than the artist mockups on the wiki
Jun 27 23:02:21 <Elrond> summatusmentis - The openmoko pool has lots of pics.
Jun 27 23:02:41 <summatusmentis> I'm looking now, thanks :-)
Jun 27 23:04:40 <GaKKGaKk> !counter
Jun 27 23:04:48 <GaKKGaKk> counter
Jun 27 23:04:48 <aloril> (last update 2007-06-27T09:44) http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (70% for P1<=2007-07-07) 90% for *news* in 08:57:34 (0.373±0.4 days) (1627;241)
Jun 27 23:05:35 <linux_galore> Elrond: nice pics
Jun 27 23:05:58 <ruimoreira> lucky guy :D 
Jun 27 23:06:09 <summatusmentis> they keyboard app doesn't look bad... not the best in the world, but not bad
Jun 27 23:06:26 <GaKKGaKk> Pictures? care to repost a link?
Jun 27 23:07:36 <linux_galore> http://www.flickr.com/photos/koenkooi/412593301/
Jun 27 23:08:08 <Elrond> linux_galore - Only one in the pool (and a few others) are mine. Most are by others.
Jun 27 23:08:58 <summatusmentis> I'm all for the acclerometer/landscape keyboard
Jun 27 23:10:32 <summatusmentis> http://www.flickr.com/photos/lorphos/512655060/in/pool-openmoko/ <-- what coin is that?
Jun 27 23:10:42 <summatusmentis> can someone provide a reference in US coinage?
Jun 27 23:10:51 <Elrond> Probably germean euro... need to check the pic.
Jun 27 23:11:01 <ruimoreira> 2 euros :D 
Jun 27 23:11:18 <Elrond> Yeah, 2 euro.
Jun 27 23:11:24 <summatusmentis> ruimoreira: any idea as to comparison to US coins? sizewise?
Jun 27 23:11:30 <ruimoreira> nop
Jun 27 23:11:43 <bartel> what about pesos?
Jun 27 23:11:44 <linux_galore> love this pic, definitely a Linux phone (shows a term open on the openmoko) http://www.flickr.com/photos/lorphos/512691135/
Jun 27 23:12:04 <linux_galore> actually lots of pics on flicker of the openmoko http://www.flickr.com/search/?q=openmoko&w=all&s=int
Jun 27 23:12:22 <ruimoreira> and all gourgeous pictures :D 
Jun 27 23:12:22 <summatusmentis> Elrond: compared to a quarter?
Jun 27 23:12:29 <GaKKGaKk> thnx
Jun 27 23:12:32 <Elrond> summatusmentis - I have no idea.
Jun 27 23:12:41 <GaKKGaKk> I saw python bindings today... I need this thing.
Jun 27 23:13:06 <summatusmentis> alright, thanks
Jun 27 23:13:16 * summatusmentis goes and googles 2 euro vs quarter
Jun 27 23:13:31 <bartel> why would anyone get an.... iphone....
Jun 27 23:13:35 * bartel ducks
Jun 27 23:13:41 <linux_galore> heh , this will make some really jealous "two openmoko's side by side"  http://www.flickr.com/photos/hrwandil/492698911/
Jun 27 23:13:41 <summatusmentis> because it's available?
Jun 27 23:13:48 <ruimoreira> bartel: there are people that hate freedom :D 
Jun 27 23:14:17 <bartel> ruimoreira: you telling me you're not going to be in line on friday?
Jun 27 23:14:20 <bartel> :)
Jun 27 23:14:31 <linux_galore> I must admit the display is really clear
Jun 27 23:14:35 <ruimoreira> i live in portugal
Jun 27 23:14:38 <ruimoreira> :D 
Jun 27 23:14:55 <ruimoreira> we won't have iphone for a few months 
Jun 27 23:15:00 <ruimoreira> but even so 
Jun 27 23:15:01 <ruimoreira> no 
Jun 27 23:15:09 <summatusmentis> still before the neo at this rate :-/
Jun 27 23:15:11 <ruimoreira> i whould not nuy it 
Jun 27 23:15:15 <GaKKGaKk> There are a lot of blurry pics of the neo.. If someone would send me theirs, I could take some real pictures...
Jun 27 23:15:27 <linux_galore> bartel: why be in Line when you will have an openmoko for 1/2 the price and not locked into AT&(were the fsk is my signal)T
Jun 27 23:15:28 <ruimoreira> *buy
Jun 27 23:15:31 <summatusmentis> GaKKGaKk: underhanded!
Jun 27 23:15:39 <bartel> linux_galore: agreed
Jun 27 23:15:45 <bartel> and be able to hack/extend it
Jun 27 23:15:46 <Elrond> GaKKGaKk - koen makes really good pics.
Jun 27 23:16:12 <ruimoreira> that is because  you all love freedom :P
Jun 27 23:16:14 <CoreDump|home> he has a very good camera
Jun 27 23:16:29 <summatusmentis> but, my offer does still stand, if devs get GTA02 for free, I'll take P1 off any devs hands who's looking to get rid of it
Jun 27 23:16:55 <ruimoreira> :)
Jun 27 23:17:00 <ruimoreira> nice thinking 
Jun 27 23:17:01 <ruimoreira> ....
Jun 27 23:17:16 <summatusmentis> :-P not likely gonna happen, but it's worth a shot
Jun 27 23:17:25 <ruimoreira> ;)
Jun 27 23:17:41 <summatusmentis> why is it so flipping hard to find pictures of currency next to each other?
Jun 27 23:18:26 <GaKKGaKk> Elrond: where?? And I just really wanted the neo :P
Jun 27 23:18:39 <Elrond> CoreDump|home - I think, my pics aren't too bad either?
Jun 27 23:19:19 <Elrond> GaKKGaKk - http://www.flickr.com/photos/koenkooi/sets/72157594573486523/detail/
Jun 27 23:20:01 <GaKKGaKk> a 2 euro is 26mm, about an inch.
Jun 27 23:20:12 <GaKKGaKk> a quarter, I do not know.
Jun 27 23:20:37 <GaKKGaKk> uhm... wiki says 25mm
Jun 27 23:21:21 <linux_galore> this will get you a few thousand geek points if you show this off http://www.flickr.com/photos/bjorn_b/414944631/
Jun 27 23:21:26 <summatusmentis> GaKKGaKk: oh... pretty close then
Jun 27 23:21:34 <summatusmentis> and Elrond your pictures are good too
Jun 27 23:22:30 <summatusmentis> heh, hopefully the app manager works *cough*unlike Openzaurus'*cough*
Jun 27 23:22:33 <GaKKGaKk> Yes ;) but the 2 euro is worth a lot more, so don't let anyone fool you.
Jun 27 23:22:48 <Elrond> linux_galore - Guess what I do, when I want to show the neo to geeks-who-don't-know-the-neo?  Let them switch it on and watch them watch the screen. ;o)
Jun 27 23:23:21 <summatusmentis> GaKKGaKk: I was just looking for size comparison :-P
Jun 27 23:23:53 <linux_galore> Elrond: now your just pissing me off heh
Jun 27 23:24:13 <gcb77> summatusmentis: Cardboard cutout with th eright size and a picture posted on it works good
Jun 27 23:24:16 <Elrond> linux_galore - Heh, not my intention.
Jun 27 23:24:38 <summatusmentis> are accelerometers potentially gonna be part of GTA02?
Jun 27 23:24:46 <summatusmentis> gcb77: true :-)
Jun 27 23:25:03 <Elrond> summatusmentis - It's getting evaluated, as we talk.
Jun 27 23:25:09 <linux_galore> they should put the flicker link to all the openmoko pic's on the wiki
Jun 27 23:25:19 <summatusmentis> Elrond: here's hopoing
Jun 27 23:25:39 <summatusmentis> hoping* accelerometer based stuff would potentially make the stylus less necessary
Jun 27 23:31:44 <CoreDump|home> summatusmentis: http://hentges.net/tmp/photos/Neo1973/img_0337.jpg
Jun 27 23:33:35 <summatusmentis> CoreDump|home: thanks! that's the kind of stuff i'm looking for :-) something I recongize
Jun 27 23:33:42 <CoreDump|home> ;)
Jun 27 23:34:03 <linux_galore> someone should take a picture of a phone next to a ruler
Jun 27 23:34:25 <CoreDump|home> the dimensions should be in the wiki somwhere
Jun 27 23:34:41 <linux_galore> CoreDump|home: a picture is worth a thousand words
Jun 27 23:35:04 <CoreDump|home> And I don't have a ruler =)
Jun 27 23:35:14 <gcb77> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Category:Neo1973_Hardware#Physical_Dimensions
Jun 27 23:35:37 <linux_galore> yeah but people often cant mentally visualise based on numbers
Jun 27 23:36:01 <summatusmentis> so instead we use Zaurus C3200s ;-)
Jun 27 23:38:30 <GaKKGaKk> linux_galore: http://www.sizeasy.com/page/size_comparison/153-Apple-iPhone-vs-OpenMoko
Jun 27 23:38:43 <GaKKGaKk> :) And then add a pack of cards.
Jun 27 23:40:06 <Mortimus> NEWS!
Jun 27 23:40:19 <summatusmentis> Mortimus: you have some? or want some?
Jun 27 23:40:41 <Mortimus> i found the june update
Jun 27 23:40:45 <Mortimus> maybe im late
Jun 27 23:40:46 <summatusmentis> oh
Jun 27 23:40:52 <Mortimus> still reading
Jun 27 23:43:10 * summatusmentis hates humidity
Jun 27 23:46:08 * Mortimus lives in basements /w dehumidifiers
Jun 27 23:46:29 * summatusmentis lives in maine, w/out dehumidifiers
Jun 27 23:46:51 <Mortimus> whats the temp in maine?
Jun 27 23:47:05 <summatusmentis> 79F
Jun 27 23:47:11 <summatusmentis> 26C
Jun 27 23:57:00 <Mortimus> i can deal with that
Jun 27 23:57:17 <summatusmentis> Mortimus: can I ask where you're from
Jun 27 23:57:54 <Mortimus> sure, new jersey
Jun 27 23:58:16 <Mortimus> its raining and muggy last time i went near a window
Jun 27 23:58:41 <summatusmentis> it's rainy up here too, extremely muggy
Jun 27 23:58:45 * summatusmentis likes dry heat
Jun 27 23:59:29 <Mortimus> beaches are nasty on muggy days 
Jun 27 23:59:37 <Mortimus> well at least for me
Jun 28 00:00:02 <Mortimus> 84?F
Jun 28 00:00:11 <Mortimus> 29?C
Jun 28 00:00:23 <summatusmentis> ugh... bad
Jun 28 00:03:55 <zecke> night
Jun 28 00:41:00 * summatusmentis is tired of waiting for news
Jun 28 00:42:19 <CoreDump|home> mickeyl posted in a german forum that phones might ship in the first week of july
Jun 28 00:43:31 <don-o> here it is! http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2007-June/006005.html
Jun 28 00:43:43 <don-o> Sean Moss-Pultz: "New Oceans"
Jun 28 00:44:06 <don-o> probably within an hour of the one week mark.
Jun 28 00:46:41 <don-o> 400 Neos ready. 600 more ready by next week.
Jun 28 00:47:38 <don-o> openmoko.com opens July 9th. two models at $300/$450
Jun 28 00:47:41 <summatusmentis> don-o: <3 <3 <3
Jun 28 00:48:26 <summatusmentis> now I have to make a decision, wait till october, or buy GTA01bv4 in august
Jun 28 00:48:51 <don-o> uh, if you think its going to ship on time, i have a bridge to sell yuo.
Jun 28 00:49:08 <don-o> $50 discount. yea!
Jun 28 00:49:17 <summatusmentis> don-o: lol, ok, that's fair
Jun 28 00:49:32 <summatusmentis> but presumably it's pretty similar hardware, just a couple of things added?
Jun 28 00:49:38 <summatusmentis> "P.S. It seems that in all this restructuring, someone has been
Jun 28 00:49:38 <summatusmentis> eavesdropping on us. It could be a spy. Or it could be a ninja. Only
Jun 28 00:49:38 <summatusmentis> time will tell. So stay tuned ;-)" what does that mean?
Jun 28 00:51:16 <CoreDump|home> hrmm 450$ for P2
Jun 28 00:51:19 <summatusmentis> it looks as though a topic change is in order?
Jun 28 00:55:05 <don-o> $450 for a P2 "sometime in the future"
Jun 28 00:55:13 <don-o> or $300 for a real device now. :)
Jun 28 00:55:13 <summatusmentis> CoreDump|home: you have GTA01b4?
Jun 28 00:55:26 <don-o> where now = july 9 :)
Jun 28 00:55:38 <summatusmentis> lol
Jun 28 00:56:01 <CoreDump|home> summatusmentis: yes
Jun 28 00:56:33 <summatusmentis> heh, tell you what, you sell me yours in august for $300, and then you only have to spend $150 on the GTA02
Jun 28 00:57:49 <CoreDump|home> nope. The P1 has been a gift. I will not make any money with it =)
Jun 28 00:58:16 <summatusmentis> how righteous of you :-P
Jun 28 00:59:16 <summatusmentis> you all have fun discussing this
Jun 28 00:59:19 * summatusmentis leaves for a while
Jun 28 00:59:19 <don-o> yes a topic change is definitely in order.
Jun 28 01:01:06 <summatusmentis> wait, their plan is still release in october, sounds like they're optimistic about stabilization of GTA02
Jun 28 01:06:29 <SpeedEvil>  /topic
Jun 28 01:07:30 <don-o> SpeedEvil: July 9th
Jun 28 01:07:51 <don-o> cool.
Jun 28 01:10:00 * SpeedEvil edits wiki.
Jun 28 01:20:23 <linux_galore> SpeedEvil: what are you adding ?
Jun 28 01:20:34 <linux_galore> ?? wiki
Jun 28 01:26:06 <SpeedEvil> linux_galore: I was editing the page http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 in accordance with the latest email
Jun 28 01:29:46 <linux_galore> SpeedEvil: July 05, cool bananas 
Jun 28 01:30:10 <SpeedEvil> 09
Jun 28 01:31:09 <linux_galore> says 05 on the wiki thats all
Jun 28 01:31:43 <summatusmentis> hrm... I know we're all bitter, skeptical, etc. is it likely that they'll stick to the october timeline?
Jun 28 01:31:54 <SpeedEvil> Oops.
Jun 28 01:32:10 <SpeedEvil> That date is also correct, but I forgot to put the important date in :)
Jun 28 01:32:20 <SpeedEvil> IMO - unlikely.
Jun 28 01:32:28 <don-o> summatusmentis: how in the h-e-double-hockey-sticks could someone make an educated guess about that.
Jun 28 01:32:38 <don-o> SpeedEvil: im with you, im thinking january 08
Jun 28 01:32:47 <SpeedEvil> That's what - 3 full months of dev time.
Jun 28 01:32:49 <linux_galore> so if you grab a GTA01 do you get first in line for the GTA02 ?
Jun 28 01:32:51 <summatusmentis> don-o: true... hrm
Jun 28 01:33:06 <don-o> the delay this time was hardware errors.
Jun 28 01:33:14 <don-o> not fab problems
Jun 28 01:33:18 <summatusmentis> linux_galore: doesn't look like it, but it also doesn't look like they'll be releasing a dev version of GTA02
Jun 28 01:33:20 <don-o> my guess is more will be found
Jun 28 01:33:32 <SpeedEvil> The hardware errors have massively delayed the software dev time though.
Jun 28 01:33:35 <summatusmentis> linux_galore: that is, no waiting list etc.
Jun 28 01:34:19 <linux_galore> hmm shouldnt have released the early specs for the GTA02, my brain is stuck in a decision loop now
Jun 28 01:34:29 <summatusmentis> linux_galore: me too, me too
Jun 28 01:34:44 <SpeedEvil> Ebay.
Jun 28 01:34:44 <don-o> yeah the gta02 specs make me feel like im buying 'old tech'
Jun 28 01:35:07 <summatusmentis> I'm leaning towards waiting for GTA02, but if october happens, then that'll coincide w/ leopard release, and I'll already be a poor college student
Jun 28 01:35:11 <SpeedEvil> And presumably they are likely to be willing to give away/discount if you dev a lot.
Jun 28 01:35:11 <linux_galore> sort of oooh shiny I want one, ooh next one is better, but I want one now, yeah but if you wait you can get a better one.....aaaaaaaaaaaaargh
Jun 28 01:35:16 <don-o> but it can be a quad-core directx 10 cell phone and it wont matter if its not in production.
Jun 28 01:35:35 <SpeedEvil> Next shiny one may have HDSPA/UMTS/3G/WIMAX/...
Jun 28 01:35:57 <summatusmentis> SpeedEvil: next shiny being 02? or whatevers after that?
Jun 28 01:36:43 <unknown_lamer> don-o: old!
Jun 28 01:36:51 <SpeedEvil> 04 maybe
Jun 28 01:36:55 <SpeedEvil> or 05
Jun 28 01:37:11 <linux_galore> $300 for the basic model is a good price
Jun 28 01:37:16 <SpeedEvil> Indeed.
Jun 28 01:37:20 <don-o> im waiting until the neo-cortex interface is available. :)
Jun 28 01:37:30 <unknown_lamer> I paid $350 for a used piece of crap that barely works now
Jun 28 01:37:32 <don-o> linux_galore: yeah im stoked its $50 less 
Jun 28 01:38:31 <linux_galore> the thing is you would easily be able to sell the GTA01 when then GTA02 comes out to some Linux geek
Jun 28 01:38:52 <summatusmentis> linux_galore: why wouldn't the linux geek just buy the 02?
Jun 28 01:39:23 <linux_galore> good example is my Zaurus 5600, I paid $250 for it and people are still paying $200+ on ebay because they are hard to get
Jun 28 01:39:59 <linux_galore> summatusmentis: because its here in Australia and they dont have to order it and its  cheaper
Jun 28 01:40:45 <summatusmentis> linux_galore: well, I guess that makes sense
Jun 28 01:40:56 <summatusmentis> personally, if i were gonna buy one, I'd buy new
Jun 28 01:40:57 <linux_galore> summatusmentis: Linux gadgets are pretty rare in AU and have to often be ordered from off shore
Jun 28 01:40:58 <summatusmentis> I think i'm gonna wait, my reasoning being: 1)there are a couple of key things in 02 I feel like i need 2)polished interface 3)I'll be in a spot where my current phone doesn't work, I might be able to get out of contract
Jun 28 01:41:12 <summatusmentis> linux_galore: essentially same in the US
Jun 28 01:41:50 <SpeedEvil> What do you need in 02?
Jun 28 01:42:11 <summatusmentis> well, need isn't the right word, but wifi, and accelerometers
Jun 28 01:42:16 <linux_galore> summatusmentis: yeah, 6-8 months wont kill me either I already have a fairly new Nokia N95
Jun 28 01:42:57 <linux_galore> no wifi is a big deal buster for me because all my network stuff is wifi now
Jun 28 01:43:20 <linux_galore> (Nokia wifi is a total no brainer to use)
Jun 28 01:43:30 * SpeedEvil is contemplating offering an upgrade service for P1
Jun 28 01:43:49 <SpeedEvil> Add accellerometers - 1 3 axes for $40 fitted.
Jun 28 01:43:49 <summatusmentis> I've got a working phone, and i might be in a better position to purchase in 6-8 months
Jun 28 01:46:19 <summatusmentis> wifi?
Jun 28 01:46:20 <aloril> P1.5 will likely have WiFi (Atheros AR6K): http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/announce/2007-April/000012.html  http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973  http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ#Q:_What_is_the_rationale_behind_the_exclusion_of_WiFi.3F  (WiFi status for P1.5 will be known for sure when P1 becomes available and also what kind of discount for P1.5 is given for P1 buyers)
Jun 28 01:46:34 <summatusmentis> what is p1.5?
Jun 28 01:46:38 <SpeedEvil> History
Jun 28 01:46:56 <SpeedEvil> It was a name given to what is now P2.
Jun 28 01:47:04 <summatusmentis> ah, ok
Jun 28 01:47:19 <SpeedEvil> On the assumption - whihc turned out to be incorrect - that P1.5 would not be final shipped hardware to the mass market.
Jun 28 01:47:23 <SpeedEvil> It seems like that's the plan.
Jun 28 01:47:56 <summatusmentis> I see, makes sense
Jun 28 01:48:23 <CoreDump|afk> n8
Jun 28 01:48:29 <summatusmentis> good night ColdFyre 
Jun 28 01:48:36 <summatusmentis> CoreDump|afk**
Jun 28 01:48:42 <summatusmentis> sorry ColdFyre 
Jun 28 01:48:43 <ColdFyre> good night
Jun 28 01:48:45 <ColdFyre> heh
Jun 28 01:49:24 <summatusmentis> :-P Sorry
Jun 28 01:50:18 <paulproteus> zomg, http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2007-June/006005.html !
Jun 28 01:50:32 <paulproteus> SpeedEvil, How about July 9 instead?
Jun 28 01:50:35 <paulproteus> (-;
Jun 28 01:50:48 * SpeedEvil sighs.
Jun 28 01:50:53 <summatusmentis> SpeedEvil: that's the scond time you've done that :-P
Jun 28 01:51:04 * paulproteus chuckles
Jun 28 01:51:18 <SpeedEvil> I brought back the topic on history to edit in the mass market price - but I've only got an 80 line long edit window.
Jun 28 01:51:26 <SpeedEvil> So got the wrong one.
Jun 28 01:51:45 <summatusmentis> yeah, no worries
Jun 28 01:52:15 <paulproteus> We're way too excited about an actual date we think will happen to be bothered by typos.
Jun 28 01:52:29 <summatusmentis> paulproteus: :-)
Jun 28 01:52:43 <paulproteus> summatusmentis, For real! (-:
Jun 28 01:53:14 <summatusmentis> oh, I know
Jun 28 01:53:22 <summatusmentis> I'm not even on a waiting list or anything and I'm excited
Jun 28 01:53:40 <summatusmentis> paulproteus: I'm waiting till GTA02 and I'me xcited
Jun 28 01:53:41 <summatusmentis> excited*
Jun 28 01:53:47 <paulproteus> lol, they'll sell a T6 screwdriver with the advanced kit!
Jun 28 01:55:34 <paulproteus> What's with that bizarre eavesdropping note?
Jun 28 01:56:11 <summatusmentis> I've been wondering the same thing
Jun 28 01:56:40 <SpeedEvil> I'm guessing it refers to the blogging
Jun 28 01:57:19 <paulproteus> At first I was guessing it was a reference to AT&T's NSA wiretapping and its relationship to the iPhone.
Jun 28 01:57:32 <paulproteus> But then I realized it was probably not something so obscure. (-:
Jun 28 01:57:44 <summatusmentis> LOL
Jun 28 01:58:24 <paulproteus> So he said there are, like, 1000 of them going to be ready?
Jun 28 01:58:30 <paulproteus> Isn't that clearly not going to be enough?
Jun 28 01:58:45 <summatusmentis> he also said more waiting to be given the go signal
Jun 28 01:58:51 <paulproteus> Oh, I guess 600 more before next week, and even more after next week.
Jun 28 01:58:53 <summatusmentis> if nothing else, it'd be a little bit of a wait
Jun 28 01:59:42 <paulproteus> Interesting move on making GTA01 cheap and not discounting GTA02.
Jun 28 02:00:02 <SpeedEvil> I hope in a way that 01 stays available.
Jun 28 02:00:06 <paulproteus> I always think it's funny when commercial news sites write news articles that are just summaries of public mailing list posts.
Jun 28 02:00:17 <paulproteus> SpeedEvil, You mean post-02, you'd want 01 to be available?
Jun 28 02:00:20 <summatusmentis> well, GTA01 is a dev machine
Jun 28 02:00:23 <SpeedEvil> Yes.
Jun 28 02:00:26 <summatusmentis> SpeedEvil: why?
Jun 28 02:00:36 <SpeedEvil> For - forex - embedding into stuff.
Jun 28 02:00:40 <summatusmentis> the iPod nano effect?
Jun 28 02:00:44 <summatusmentis> oh
Jun 28 02:01:14 <SpeedEvil> No - for example making a car touchscreen thing built into the car.
Jun 28 02:01:25 <happycube> yeah
Jun 28 02:01:40 <summatusmentis> I think the screen'd be a bit small, but that makes sense
Jun 28 02:01:43 <SpeedEvil> I don't want accelerometers, 2D accel, wifi for that.
Jun 28 02:01:43 <paulproteus> SpeedEvil, I guess 01 is preferable because it's cheaper and good enough for that?
Jun 28 02:01:46 <happycube> lots of hacker things you can do with 01
Jun 28 02:01:57 <paulproteus> So I do feel a little silly.  July 10th I'm going to start working at a company that happens to have some GTA01s (I don't know which subrevision), and I was thinking that's *so cool*, but then the day before I start I'll just be able to go on the web and buy one.
Jun 28 02:02:08 <SpeedEvil> And if I decide I want wifi, I can glue a hub and a USB stick on, powered by the car.
Jun 28 02:02:22 <summatusmentis> SpeedEvil: that's very true
Jun 28 02:02:25 <paulproteus> SpeedEvil, "Powered by the car" is a pretty good point. (-:
Jun 28 02:02:43 <summatusmentis> paulproteus: well, wait a couple of days, see what revisions, then see if they'll give you one
Jun 28 02:03:12 <linux_galore> summatusmentis: most media device screens I have are the same size at a lower res than the openmoko, good example is my really expensice Nokia N95
Jun 28 02:03:29 <linux_galore> expensive*
Jun 28 02:03:37 <summatusmentis> linux_galore: well, yeah, but not in a car setting
Jun 28 02:03:37 <SpeedEvil> I'm not really sure 640*480 has a benefit.
Jun 28 02:03:48 <SpeedEvil> Over say - a 200dpi display
Jun 28 02:03:59 <SpeedEvil> I can see the benefit over QVGA
Jun 28 02:04:03 <paulproteus> I guess I can take the pressure of the sales at this early stage when they'll get swamped, or something.
Jun 28 02:04:36 <paulproteus> SpeedEvil, What is the dpi at 640x480?
Jun 28 02:04:42 <SpeedEvil> 300
Jun 28 02:04:48 <SpeedEvil> or 283 or something
Jun 28 02:04:54 <SpeedEvil> 293 I think
Jun 28 02:05:11 <paulproteus> That's pretty intense.
Jun 28 02:05:18 <SpeedEvil> Indeed.
Jun 28 02:05:34 <SpeedEvil> You can view a 80*25 xterm, if you have it 15cm from your eyes.
Jun 28 02:05:37 <paulproteus> BTW, does anyone have any idea what to do with the accelerometers?
Jun 28 02:05:45 <SpeedEvil> Lots.
Jun 28 02:06:13 <SpeedEvil> The ones announced for the GTA02 are very insensitive - I hope they will choose to re-roll them.
Jun 28 02:07:09 <linux_galore> hmm 3.5" would be nicer but if you look at the iPhone the dpi is only 160
Jun 28 02:07:20 <SpeedEvil> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Wish_List_-_Hardware and then search for Accel
Jun 28 02:07:28 <aloril> (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Neo1973]]
Jun 28 02:07:38 <summatusmentis> SpeedEvil: re-roll them?
Jun 28 02:07:42 <paulproteus> SpeedEvil, I mean, does any Free Software exist right now to make useful use of accelerometers?
Jun 28 02:07:48 <SpeedEvil> AIUI - no.
Jun 28 02:07:48 * paulproteus goes and  reads SpeedEvil's link
Jun 28 02:07:56 <SpeedEvil> It would all need developed.
Jun 28 02:08:04 <SpeedEvil> Much of it is not complex.
Jun 28 02:08:15 <linux_galore> paulproteus: there is a company that makes portable lab test devices based on Linux
Jun 28 02:08:48 * linux_galore digs into his links database
Jun 28 02:08:54 <summatusmentis> but if a base system gets done, then from there it's pretty straightforward?
Jun 28 02:09:01 <summatusmentis> paulproteus: one idea mentioned here earlier was scrolling by rocking the phone whichever way you wanted
Jun 28 02:09:24 <paulproteus> OOH!
Jun 28 02:09:29 <paulproteus> ETCH-A-SKETCH!
Jun 28 02:09:34 * paulproteus grins ear to ear
Jun 28 02:09:35 <SpeedEvil> summatusmentis: reading the phone orientation - the way gravity is pointing with respect of the centre of the phone - is easy
Jun 28 02:09:43 <SpeedEvil> Much more gets complex
Jun 28 02:09:54 <linux_galore> summatusmentis: HTC have a very interesting way of changing main menu's , the screen rolls a bit like the cube effect in beryl
Jun 28 02:10:05 <linux_galore> summatusmentis: left right
Jun 28 02:10:14 <SpeedEvil> Etch-a-sketch, that little 'roll a ball round a maze' game, 
Jun 28 02:10:51 <SpeedEvil> yo-yo simulator, emergency call after crash option, ...
Jun 28 02:10:59 <gcb77> it should make a good pedometer too
Jun 28 02:11:02 <paulproteus> SpeedEvil, Hey, with 3D you could do portable TuxRacer where you sway it...
Jun 28 02:11:10 <linux_galore> lol
Jun 28 02:11:22 <linux_galore> or shake the openmoko to go back to main menu
Jun 28 02:11:23 <SpeedEvil> Remember - you only get 2 dimensions of movement
Jun 28 02:11:28 <paulproteus> But really, I'm most excited for Etch-a-Sketch.
Jun 28 02:11:32 <paulproteus> omg, I can't wait.
Jun 28 02:11:53 <SpeedEvil> pitch and yaw 'tilt' with respect to the ground
Jun 28 02:11:58 <LoDown> i'm super pumped...
Jun 28 02:12:27 <LoDown> i really want v2 with the wifi...but october seems so far away...
Jun 28 02:12:38 <linux_galore> I can imagine someong doing the "wanking" gesture with his openmoko and someone taking offense, Im just telling my phone to go back to the main menu lol
Jun 28 02:12:53 <SpeedEvil> Would you swap bluetooth for wifi?
Jun 28 02:12:59 <SpeedEvil> LoDown:
Jun 28 02:13:09 <LoDown> hmmm
Jun 28 02:13:13 <LoDown> yes...prolly...
Jun 28 02:13:15 <paulproteus> That's a really tough choice...
Jun 28 02:13:23 <LoDown> i would use wifi more then bluetooth
Jun 28 02:13:25 <SpeedEvil> True - it's a plausible one though.
Jun 28 02:13:36 <SpeedEvil> It's possible that it's going to be a relatively simple mod.
Jun 28 02:13:42 <linux_galore> the problem with wifi is there are now many cheap portable devices that work with it versus bluetooth
Jun 28 02:13:46 <SpeedEvil> Swap out the bluetooth module, replace a wifi module.
Jun 28 02:14:04 <SpeedEvil> Yeah - and it sucks lots of power
Jun 28 02:15:12 <paulproteus> SpeedEvil, Is it at all feasible to just turn it off for all but 0.25s of every second?
Jun 28 02:15:40 <aevin> if you attached the neo onto your wrist while jogging, would it be very uncomfortable because of its weight(+size) ?
Jun 28 02:15:46 <paulproteus> and/or useful?
Jun 28 02:16:27 <paulproteus> aevin, I would guess so based on what I've seen, but you should probably hear from someone who's actually seen one.
Jun 28 02:16:37 <aevin> for that jogging scenario, i wouldnt mind a landscape interface, e.g for that planned Coach program
Jun 28 02:16:53 <paulproteus> (BTW, the "company" that has Neos that I'm joining is Creative Commons.  There's no big-corporation conspiracy or anything.)
Jun 28 02:17:11 <paulproteus> (as far as I know.  But maybe the ninjas know better.)
Jun 28 02:17:42 <aevin> paulproteus: do you know what CC is using it for?
Jun 28 02:17:58 <SpeedEvil> paulproteus: to an extent. You run into problems with the itnernet not expecting devices to do that.
Jun 28 02:18:14 <SpeedEvil> So when the radio is off, packets get dropped on the floor.
Jun 28 02:18:16 <paulproteus> SpeedEvil, Well, TCP will figure it out, eventually, hopefully... (-;
Jun 28 02:18:28 <SpeedEvil> Not TCP as we know it.
Jun 28 02:18:30 <SpeedEvil> However.
Jun 28 02:18:30 <paulproteus> aevin, Not really, actually.
Jun 28 02:18:44 <paulproteus> SpeedEvil, If you're lucky, you'll pick up on one of the retransmits, no?
Jun 28 02:18:47 <SpeedEvil> You can do something with a local proxy server that store and forwards your packets
Jun 28 02:18:49 <SpeedEvil> no.
Jun 28 02:19:08 <SpeedEvil> If you have the radio on under 50% of the time then retransmit interval will grow exponentially
Jun 28 02:19:15 <paulproteus> Oh, good point.
Jun 28 02:19:17 <paulproteus> That'll suck.
Jun 28 02:19:20 * paulproteus grins
Jun 28 02:19:38 <SpeedEvil> You need to have some local proxy that can store and forward. Which isn't hard to do.
Jun 28 02:19:52 <SpeedEvil> But it of course means that it's harder to use random wifi points efficiently.
Jun 28 02:20:03 <paulproteus> SpeedEvil, Of course.
Jun 28 02:20:13 <SpeedEvil> However.
Jun 28 02:20:13 <linux_galore> one issue will be having to have different menu layout as the phone is flipped from landscape etc
Jun 28 02:20:40 <SpeedEvil> If you have the radio up 1s/15, that saves really quite a large amount of power.
Jun 28 02:21:10 <SpeedEvil> On the downside.
Jun 28 02:21:17 <SpeedEvil> Hmm.
Jun 28 02:21:37 <SpeedEvil> I know the USB can't be used in slow mode. Anyone know where the wifi will be connected?
Jun 28 02:21:39 <linux_galore> applications will be a bit annoying to develop too because of the landscape/portrait flipping feature
Jun 28 02:22:32 <aevin> linux_galore: yes, perhaps some apps will have two sets of GUIs.
Jun 28 02:22:47 <linux_galore> SpeedEvil: I found bt pretty fast for transforming stuff
Jun 28 02:23:03 <linux_galore> transferring *
Jun 28 02:23:04 <SpeedEvil> But - very short range.
Jun 28 02:23:14 <SpeedEvil> And there are no BT accesspoints.
Jun 28 02:23:43 <linux_galore> SpeedEvil: Im thinking of transferring to a laptop etc that already has wifi
Jun 28 02:23:54 <SpeedEvil> That'd work.
Jun 28 02:23:57 <aevin> at least I hope we can make a huge on-screen keyboard, perhaps translucent, covering half the bottom of the screen in landscape mode. 
Jun 28 02:24:03 <linux_galore> SpeedEvil: you can actually network via bt->laptop->wifi
Jun 28 02:24:09 <SpeedEvil> I know
Jun 28 02:24:14 <SpeedEvil> it's not technically hard.
Jun 28 02:24:20 <SpeedEvil> Just there are no pre-built solutions.
Jun 28 02:24:26 <aevin> so if the phone is wrist mountable, i can type on it quite easily.
Jun 28 02:24:27 <linux_galore> SpeedEvil: it actually very easy Ive done it
Jun 28 02:24:40 <aevin> fingerwise
Jun 28 02:24:43 <SpeedEvil> You can't buy a BT access point that plugs into your network, I mean.
Jun 28 02:24:57 <linux_galore> SpeedEvil: you can
Jun 28 02:25:07 <SpeedEvil> Where?
Jun 28 02:25:17 <SpeedEvil> Sold as a BT access point, and not reconfigured?
Jun 28 02:25:21 <paulproteus> (Turns out you can quiz rejon on why CC has them on #cc, and it has to do with him getting OpenMoko to release non-software components of the platform under CC licenses.)
Jun 28 02:25:40 <SpeedEvil> non-software?
Jun 28 02:25:55 <SpeedEvil> icons/themes?
Jun 28 02:26:04 <aevin> paulproteus: yes,i've read his posts on the community ML about the icons etc.
Jun 28 02:27:29 <aevin> i support the idea, but i guess every "artist" would decide for themselves what license to use.
Jun 28 02:27:45 <paulproteus> aevin, Oh, I actually haven't been on community.
Jun 28 02:28:31 <aevin> it's the biggest list. i'm not subscribing to it, just reading the archive through Gmane : http://dir.gmane.org/index.php?prefix=gmane.comp.handhelds.openmoko
Jun 28 02:28:53 <aevin> oops. the buglog ML is the biggest :-P
Jun 28 02:29:41 <paulproteus> lol, great. (-:
Jun 28 02:30:45 <summatusmentis> stupid weather is making my internet all screwy
Jun 28 02:31:04 <aevin> summatusmentis: having a radio link?
Jun 28 02:31:13 <summatusmentis> sattellite
Jun 28 02:31:28 <summatusmentis> I guess that's radio
Jun 28 02:31:32 <aevin> how's the rate for the uplink?
Jun 28 02:31:38 <aevin> yes, it sure it :)
Jun 28 02:31:51 <aevin> no wires to the satellites;-)
Jun 28 02:32:12 <summatusmentis> umm... I think it's pretty bad, actually. I'd have to check I'm not entirely sure what upload speeds are
Jun 28 02:32:40 <summatusmentis> aevin: lol, I'm not ver knowledgable w/ wireless technology, and terminology
Jun 28 02:36:13 <SunZhiyong> I am in china, how can i get a phone after July (.
Jun 28 02:36:58 <summatusmentis> SunZhiyong: as far as I know, you should just be able to order it
Jun 28 02:37:05 <aevin> SunZhiyong: I think we are suppose to be able to order them from a webshop at www.openmoko.com
Jun 28 02:38:20 <SunZhiyong> oh, thank you, 
Jun 28 02:39:19 <aevin> SunZhiyong: all we know is found here: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2007-June/006005.html (you may skip the first 10 paragraphs if you're in a hurry)
Jun 28 02:40:37 <aevin> it'll be interesting to see how the sale goes. if they'll be able to supply the demand.
Jun 28 02:41:51 <aevin> i guess there's a lot of people paying attention to the openmoko project, but i guess it's not nearly as many that is actually commited enough to buy a phone (especially the GTA01, when they know that GTA02 is only some few months off)
Jun 28 02:42:10 <happycube> i think i'll order an 01 monday :)
Jun 28 02:42:16 * paulproteus grins
Jun 28 02:42:21 <paulproteus> aevin, It will be interesting, that's for sure.
Jun 28 02:43:04 <summatusmentis> I think I'll order an 02 in october
Jun 28 02:43:06 <aevin> paulproteus: yes. it'll kind of determine/reveal the strength of the project.
Jun 28 02:43:21 <aevin> we need many devs!
Jun 28 02:44:18 <aevin> although, it's also possible to just develop on a desktop machine with qemu/zephyr or similar too, of course.
Jun 28 02:48:15 * summatusmentis wonders about setting up openmoko under qemu... 
Jun 28 02:49:43 <SunZhiyong> V02 looks more better than 01 not only the processer but also an accelerator more, :), but the price is more expensive
Jun 28 02:50:03 <summatusmentis> SunZhiyong: that about sums it up :-)
Jun 28 02:50:16 * summatusmentis is gonna wait for 02, wants wifi/accelerometers
Jun 28 02:51:37 <gcb77> I've been trying to get the makefile to work and I keep running into a problem with ltrace
Jun 28 02:51:42 <SunZhiyong> When will she has a DC, now nearly every phones has one.
Jun 28 02:51:42 <gcb77> Seems it can't find gelf.h
Jun 28 02:52:27 <summatusmentis> SunZhiyong: ?
Jun 28 02:53:11 <SunZhiyong> both V02 and V01 do not have DC, am i right?
Jun 28 02:53:55 <linux_galore> the price for the 02 is actually pretty good for what it is
Jun 28 02:53:59 <SunZhiyong> It would be more better if there could be one on the further version.
Jun 28 02:54:18 <linux_galore> well the estimated is anyway
Jun 28 02:54:20 <summatusmentis> SunZhiyong: DC? power?
Jun 28 02:54:55 <linux_galore> extra $100 or so isnt a big deal
Jun 28 02:55:01 <SpeedEvil> Digital Camera?
Jun 28 02:55:18 <SpeedEvil> there are no current plans in announced versions.
Jun 28 02:56:03 <linux_galore> Im not fussed about the camera, all the camera phones I have used have been pretty limited in this respect
Jun 28 02:56:06 <summatusmentis> linux_galore: I worry that by the time 02 is ultimately out, the features it has will be... outdated comparatively
Jun 28 02:56:10 <SunZhiyong> Digital Camera, yes!
Jun 28 02:56:31 <linux_galore> no zoom on most camera phones
Jun 28 02:56:42 <summatusmentis> digital zoom
Jun 28 02:56:45 <linux_galore> and the macro is totally rubbish
Jun 28 02:56:58 <linux_galore> summatusmentis: do the same with photoshop
Jun 28 02:57:12 <summatusmentis> true
Jun 28 02:57:36 <SunZhiyong> but the phone with DC is more important?
Jun 28 02:57:50 <linux_galore> summatusmentis: and a better job (I use digikam to simulate digtal zoom way beter then the built in option of the phone)
Jun 28 02:58:33 <linux_galore> summatusmentis: it has a usb port. always add one lol
Jun 28 02:58:55 <summatusmentis> linux_galore: :-P
Jun 28 02:59:16 <linux_galore> summatusmentis: first 10MP camera phone lol
Jun 28 02:59:29 <summatusmentis> SunZhiyong: it depends on what you want. If the digital camera is important to you, then the neo(current version) might not be what you're looking for
Jun 28 02:59:31 <linux_galore> plug a Nokia D80 into the phone lol
Jun 28 02:59:32 <summatusmentis> linux_galore: LOL
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Jun 28 02:59:57 2007