**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Jul 02 02:59:56 2007 Jul 02 03:00:05 that's not an openmoko related requirement, it's in official qemu docs Jul 02 03:00:06 gcc versions are not backwards compatible? Jul 02 03:01:02 i would normally think a newer version of a compiler should not break existing builds Jul 02 03:01:19 they are supposed to be backwards compatible but that's not always the case, and here it's more because qemu uses a feature of gcc 3.x that wasn't really intentioanl and shouldn't be relied on Jul 02 03:01:40 somebody needs to take a side-by-side shot of iphone and openmoko Jul 02 03:01:44 qemu uses a lot of assembler tricks Jul 02 03:02:13 * peepsalot shakes his fist in an indeterminate direction Jul 02 03:02:32 uhoh Jul 02 03:02:56 make errored out making ncurses Jul 02 03:03:21 balrog-kun, so how would i go about getting a different version of gcc installed, without overwriting my existing install? i am on ubuntu if that matters Jul 02 03:07:15 peepsalot: iirc the ubuntu-wiki has a neat tutorial about Qemu Jul 02 03:07:22 `aptitude search gcc` find the package you want and install. Jul 02 03:07:27 it should have a good explanation on gcc too Jul 02 03:15:06 thx hads, i didn't think it would let me do it like that Jul 02 03:35:18 i got some horrendous error on the last step of setting up qemu: http://pastebin.ca/599297 Jul 02 03:36:38 looks like a broken shell, is it the dash based Ubuntu? Jul 02 03:37:00 iirc there were remarks about dash somewhere on the wiki Jul 02 03:37:36 agh, yeah... i thought i fixed this before. checking... Jul 02 03:38:45 well, no it looks like /bin/sh is pointing to bash Jul 02 03:39:29 hmm, then i have no idea, but someone here http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Talk:OpenMoko_under_QEMU reports the same problem Jul 02 03:40:34 am I missing something, or is the svn for apps way out of date? Jul 02 03:40:34 dcsmith_: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) Jul 02 03:42:02 balrog-kun, maybe the script is expecting some different command also named sleep? Jul 02 03:44:35 nvm, don't think that's it at all Jul 02 03:44:53 as far as i can tell it expects only the normal sleep command that sleeps a given number of seconds Jul 02 03:45:16 this brekage looks mor einteresting that other breakages though :p Jul 02 03:47:05 anything to keep things interesting :-/ Jul 02 03:48:54 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Buying_Interest_List]] Jul 02 03:57:30 hmm, so i noticed the program #! /usr/bin/env bash Jul 02 03:57:47 i mean the script is marked as this ^ Jul 02 03:58:14 but what does that mean? why not #! /bin/bash ? Jul 02 04:00:09 eh, well doesn't make a difference anyways Jul 02 04:19:29 balrog-kun: ping Jul 02 04:32:44 ravan: pong Jul 02 04:34:59 I cant wait till the NEO hits the community, with some luck we get some serious hacking going Jul 02 04:35:48 peepsalot: because not everyone's bash is in /bin. Jul 02 04:35:56 should setup a sponsor for a prize GYA02 for the best 2007 hack Jul 02 04:35:59 peepsalot: so, it uses bash wherever the environment finds it first. Jul 02 04:36:03 GTA02* Jul 02 04:36:26 cjb, so why couldn't it just say #! bash ? Jul 02 04:36:45 because the kernel (which is what interprets #! lines) requires an absolute path. Jul 02 04:38:22 "bash" makes sense to your shell, which has an environment and a set of paths to look in, but the kernel doesn't have any of those things. Jul 02 04:45:28 heh, love Microsofts response to the iPhone, enter the HTC 7500, yep now tiny 3.5 inch touch screen for us, nope were going all Texas on your ass with a 5" LCD and a 640Mhz arm cpu, yeeeahw take that Apple http://www.geardiary.com/2007/05/28/the-htc-advantage-x7500-so-far/ Jul 02 04:46:15 Microsoft "making big assed product today" Jul 02 04:46:22 products* Jul 02 04:46:46 linux_galore: the iPhone also has a 640MHz ARM CPU. Probably the same one. Jul 02 04:47:48 640MHz wouldn't be bad Jul 02 04:48:10 I am amazed the battery life is ok with a 640Mhz cpu + 3d accelerator Jul 02 04:48:30 * balrog-kun is off, 7 am.. Jul 02 04:49:43 2200mah batteries Jul 02 06:14:53 Hi there. Jul 02 06:15:51 I just found out about OpenMoko. It sounds very interesting. I wonder if I might be able to get involved in some way. Could someone tell me the core technologies involved - programming languages, protocols ? Jul 02 06:15:51 micapam: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) Jul 02 06:15:58 Thanks, I'll check ther.e Jul 02 06:35:30 counter_msg (last update 2007-07-02T06:19) http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter 60% for P1 in Jul 02 06:35:30 aloril changed counter prefix message to (last update 2007-07-02T06:19) http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter 60% for P1 in Jul 02 06:36:23 * OpenMoko on Treo 650 and some mails Jul 02 07:09:42 morning Jul 02 07:12:58 * * OM Bug 624 has been created by osazon(AT)gmail.com Jul 02 07:12:59 * * Server hosting windows pre-built binaries not responding Jul 02 07:13:00 * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=624 Jul 02 07:19:42 morning Jul 02 07:57:37 hi there. Jul 02 07:59:37 moin Jul 02 08:14:15 mornin' Jul 02 08:15:41 mornin Jul 02 08:21:59 argh... can anyone remember the u-boot environment variable to set to stop auto power-down? I can't find it in the wiki :( Jul 02 08:22:52 ok, got it... Jul 02 08:25:04 good morning Jul 02 08:29:09 Waaaaaaa! Jul 02 08:29:27 @catnip:/home/moko/build> bitbake openmoko-devel-image Jul 02 08:29:27 NOTE: Not using a cache. Set CACHE = to enable. Jul 02 08:29:27 ERROR: no files to build. Jul 02 08:29:27 NOTE: Parsing finished. 0 cached, 0 parsed, 0 skipped, 0 masked. Jul 02 08:29:27 ERROR: Nothing provides dependency openmoko-devel-image Jul 02 08:29:32 wtf.... Jul 02 08:30:43 ScaredyCat: set up your environment variables Jul 02 08:32:32 export OMDIR=/home/moko Jul 02 08:32:32 export BBPATH=$OMDIR/build:$OMDIR/openmoko/trunk/oe:$OMDIR/openembedded Jul 02 08:32:46 ahhh... Jul 02 08:32:54 but i did that in the other shell, gah! Jul 02 08:32:59 thanks florian Jul 02 08:33:07 ScaredyCat: :-) yw Jul 02 08:39:14 ScaredyCat - Use MokoMakefile. Jul 02 08:39:43 is anyone using an image other than openmoko-devel-image ? Jul 02 08:40:39 I guess koen is ;o) Jul 02 08:42:11 koen: which image are you using? Jul 02 08:43:24 ravan - Probably some angstrom image. There was a prebuild one somewhere. Jul 02 08:44:28 i'm not able to get usb networking working with any rootfs image other than the one from buildhost Jul 02 08:44:46 (i'm building my images using bitbake) Jul 02 08:46:08 ravan - Maybe that one: http://www.angstrom-distribution.org/unstable/images/fic-gta01/ Jul 02 08:52:12 morning Jul 02 08:52:19 Is g_serial in the prebuild kernels? Jul 02 09:15:14 lardman, lardman does whatever lard can... frys an egg any size, frys bacon, also fries ... watch out it's lard man.... Jul 02 09:15:56 :) Jul 02 09:16:59 hi bedboi Jul 02 09:17:15 hey florian :) Jul 02 09:17:22 what's up? Jul 02 09:19:17 enough to stay busy ;) Jul 02 09:47:08 * nox-Hand hugs nnpiggy Jul 02 09:47:16 * nox-Hand crawls back under his rock Jul 02 09:49:14 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Neo1973_compatible_cellphone_providers]] Jul 02 10:33:04 hmm, that's interesting... the gsm modem in my v4 is no longer responding :/ Jul 02 11:12:57 * * OM Bug 625 has been created by ticktock35(AT)gmail.com Jul 02 11:12:58 * * t stat `ftl_format': No such file or directory Jul 02 11:12:59 * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=625 Jul 02 11:13:28 I guess ftl_format is ftl... Jul 02 11:13:33 *badumtish* Jul 02 11:13:41 thanks, I'll be here all week. Try the veal. Jul 02 11:22:29 counter Jul 02 11:22:29 (last update 2007-07-02T06:19) http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter 60% for P1 in a week 00:37:26 (7.026±1.0 days) (1661;242) Jul 02 11:34:10 Greetings nox-Hand. Jul 02 11:34:24 Good day to you, nnpiggy Jul 02 11:49:54 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Wish_List_-_Hardware]] Jul 02 12:11:53 (script) openmoko-devel: "Michael 'Mickey' Lauer" Re: future OpenEmbedded updates Jul 02 12:18:42 yay, just got my friend to buy a neo instead of an iphone Jul 02 12:20:27 well, actually all i did was show him the facts and compared those two ^^ Jul 02 12:21:50 did you explain that it's not complete yet ? Jul 02 12:23:05 I have a fear that too many non-developers will buy the first round of phones Jul 02 12:23:22 yes... 'just because' Jul 02 12:23:30 "ooh, shiny" Jul 02 12:23:47 mickeyl - Just an idea: You might _consider_ posting job announcments to the announce list as well. Jul 02 12:23:49 "ooh, shiny, unlocked" Jul 02 12:24:43 ScaredyCat: i sure did =) Jul 02 12:24:56 :) Jul 02 12:25:01 Elrond: the qualified people are on the oe-devel list Jul 02 12:25:08 good... they wouldn't be friendly if you didn't ;) Jul 02 12:26:29 koen - I know. This was more on "any job announcement", not the oe-specific one. Jul 02 12:28:29 I wonder, how many will buy it and then brick it within one week. ;o) Jul 02 12:30:52 I wonder how many realise how ong it takes to do a build Jul 02 12:30:54 :) Jul 02 12:31:14 ScaredyCat - hehe, yeah. ;-) Jul 02 12:31:22 ScaredyCat - Not to mention the initial download. Jul 02 12:31:51 I'm pretty sure openmoko owes me a week.... Jul 02 12:32:03 .. and it's still not building ... Jul 02 12:32:16 ..and i need fewd... Jul 02 12:32:50 if only i had the space.. he cried Jul 02 12:34:18 Can anyone comment on if SPI is present on the debug connector? Jul 02 12:40:09 SpeedEvil - http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Category:Neo1973_Hardware#Changes_from_GTA01Bv3 Jul 02 12:40:51 SpeedEvil - point "2." Jul 02 12:41:06 From memory, I don't think that answers it. Jul 02 12:41:08 * SpeedEvil clixks Jul 02 12:41:31 "Add I2C, SPI and one irq and wakeup capable GPIO pin to debug port plus have test pads for all these signals (for soldering wires directly on the pcb)" sounds like an answer. Jul 02 12:41:40 Unless I'm completely confused. Jul 02 12:41:52 Oh - right Jul 02 12:41:56 you're right Jul 02 12:42:09 I'd missed the debug port bit the last time I read it. Jul 02 12:42:43 You might want to check the history and verify, that the info was added by someone, who you trust. ;o) Jul 02 12:46:25 SpeedEvil - Harald added it, so I guess, it's mostly okay ( http://wiki.openmoko.org/index.php?title=Neo1973_Hardware&diff=5483&oldid=5481 ) Jul 02 12:47:18 Wow - community has way more signal than normal. Jul 02 12:48:38 "signal"? Huh? Jul 02 12:48:42 Just putting together a post on amongst other things - expanding the USB connector. Jul 02 12:48:55 there is noise, and signal Jul 02 12:49:02 Ahh. :-) Jul 02 12:49:09 There is actual on-topic stuff without flamage. Jul 02 12:49:14 err Jul 02 12:49:20 expanding the debug connector Jul 02 12:49:36 For GTA02 Jul 02 12:49:44 My current problem with the debug connector: It's undocumented. Jul 02 12:50:02 yeah Jul 02 12:50:48 Not to mention, that I can't see a big trade secret in there... except getting people to buy the debug board instead of creating their own. Jul 02 12:52:21 Indeed. Jul 02 13:44:15 ... left the capitol .... :P Jul 02 13:44:25 Jul 02 13:44:28 good boy! Jul 02 13:44:28 :) Jul 02 13:45:26 SpeedEvil: i imagine openmoko will be happy to give specs for the connector Jul 02 13:45:34 though they may end up being pretty fuzzy Jul 02 13:50:08 hi Jul 02 13:50:46 is there anywhere a description of the svn structur (http://svn.openmoko.org/trunk/) ? Jul 02 13:50:54 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Neo]] Jul 02 13:51:44 tr1 - Not really. You're welcome to write on into the wiki, if you like. Jul 02 13:52:28 tr1 - Ahh, found it: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Development_resources#SVN_Tree_Layout Jul 02 13:52:35 ah ok thx Jul 02 13:52:39 i have a look there Jul 02 13:53:02 how is the system build know - with openembedded ? Jul 02 13:54:15 tr1 - http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/MokoMakefile Jul 02 13:54:48 tr1 - Which is a wrapper around openembedded, etc. Make life lots easier. Jul 02 13:56:35 I just managed to build openmoko (using mokomakefile) with dash as my /bin/sh, and it took only 4 small patches (only 3 of them were dash-related) Jul 02 13:57:39 * ScaredyCat only has 4 hours to go.. :/ Jul 02 13:58:37 wouldn't it be nicer to use a full build system like t2 or opensde ? Jul 02 14:00:30 tr1: OpenEmbedded is full build system Jul 02 14:00:34 tr1 - It's openembedded/bitbake a full build system? Jul 02 14:00:46 Ahh, hrw already answered my question. Jul 02 14:01:11 cesarb - Ask rwhitby if he wants to consider those patches for inclusion in mokomakefile. Jul 02 14:01:47 rwhitby: are you here? Jul 02 14:02:09 mickeyl: how far has the merging back into OE come along? Jul 02 14:02:51 cesarb: pastebin the patches and I'll take a look at them. Jul 02 14:03:18 rwhitby: ok Jul 02 14:06:57 rwhitby: the first one is http://www.pastebin.ca/599844 which when added to the quilt list fixes the perl build failures with dash Jul 02 14:08:57 rwhitby: the second one is http://www.pastebin.ca/599848 which when added to the quilt list fixes a mtpaint build failure with dash (by forcing it to use /bin/bash) Jul 02 14:10:16 re Jul 02 14:10:31 rwhitby: the third one is http://www.pastebin.ca/599853 which imports an openembedded fix to a ltrace build failure when you have a native libelf (not dash related) Jul 02 14:10:36 tr2x: wb Jul 02 14:12:45 rwhitby: and the last one is http://www.pastebin.ca/599859 which makes clean-package-% (and build-package-% which has the same code) work with dash Jul 02 14:13:34 rwhitby: the first three go into patches/openembedded-, the last one applies directly to the makefile Jul 02 14:14:46 openmoko: 03rwhitby * r99 10mokomakefile/trunk/ (5 files in 2 dirs): Added patches to support dash - thanks to cesarb Jul 02 14:15:36 cesarb: when OM finally get projects.openmoko.org working and stable, you'll be getting commit access for the MokoMakefile project. Jul 02 14:16:05 That's a perfect example of how a contribution should be done. Jul 02 14:16:40 rwhitby: that's because I'm already used to contributing to free software projects Jul 02 14:16:49 =) Jul 02 14:17:06 cesarb: yep, it certainly shows. Jul 02 14:21:09 hi Jul 02 14:21:36 ho Jul 02 14:22:45 Mr. Eyecandy himself has joined us =) Jul 02 14:23:15 * raster goes bling Jul 02 14:23:17 rwhitby: hm, the build order for "make update" seems wrong... it runs update-openembedded before update-patches, which means people will have to run "make update" twice for these new patches to apply Jul 02 14:25:08 openmoko: 03rwhitby * r100 10mokomakefile/trunk/Makefile: Fixed order of make update - need to update patches before applying them to openembedded. Jul 02 14:25:14 thx Jul 02 14:25:37 rwhitby: it is working nowadays Jul 02 14:25:59 rwhitby: stable is another issue, e.g. I can't add new files... in a specific directory but I blame subversion for that Jul 02 14:26:16 zecke_: I saw you complaining about it just yesterday :-) Jul 02 14:26:44 so the question is "is there an attentive admin who can fix things like that for you?: Jul 02 14:27:18 rwhitby: yes there is. The workflow is file a bug, ping stefan_schmidt and he pokes the FIC guy Jul 02 14:27:53 ok, I'll put migrating back there back on my todo list ... Jul 02 14:39:42 I just don't get it... Jul 02 14:39:53 wouldn't it be nice to use a full build system like rpath, t2 or opensde ? Jul 02 14:40:12 checking gelf.h usability... no Jul 02 14:40:12 ? Jul 02 14:40:12 | checking gelf.h presence... no Jul 02 14:40:12 | checking for gelf.h... no Jul 02 14:40:12 | configure: error: ***** gelf.h not found ***** Jul 02 14:40:27 I have the elf devel stuff... I can sodding well see it Jul 02 14:40:44 * ScaredyCat is about to kill someone Jul 02 14:40:45 your sods are too dry Jul 02 14:40:48 add more water Jul 02 14:41:35 Um, I'm having a similar problem with installing monotone, I have boost_filesystem, I can see it, you even have 2 versions to choose from. Jul 02 14:41:35 or alcohol Jul 02 14:42:08 tri: what makes you thing OE isn't a full buildsystem? Jul 02 14:42:34 koen: oe is good Jul 02 14:42:45 except its nowhere near as convenient for developers as scratchbox :( Jul 02 14:43:03 raster: that's why we say it's a build tool, not a development tool Jul 02 14:43:21 :) Jul 02 14:43:34 it's source -> installable package :) Jul 02 14:43:38 tri: haven't you asked the same an hour ago and were answered? Jul 02 14:43:42 yeah Jul 02 14:43:43 i know Jul 02 14:43:50 i guess i'm a developer Jul 02 14:44:01 so i think with my myopic view of the world Jul 02 14:44:15 raster: we do want to improve on making it more developer friednly a la scratchbox, but that's somewhere in the middle of the TODO Jul 02 14:44:35 of trying to make the path between ./configure; make; make install; ... make; make install; .. make; make install Jul 02 14:45:21 (ad nauseum 0 with running your software in between the make installs) as simple and streamlines and fast as possible Jul 02 14:45:37 being able to use scratchobx Jul 02 14:45:48 then nfs mount the sb /usr/local Jul 02 14:45:50 it heavenly Jul 02 14:45:52 is Jul 02 14:45:59 bitbake -c compile -f ; bitbake foo -c package_write is the closest thing to fast rebuilds Jul 02 14:46:12 raster: btw, OE can generate scratchbox toolchains :) Jul 02 14:46:31 so openmoko can hand that to scratchbox die-hards Jul 02 14:47:13 does the BUILD machine also need to have dummy_hcd and gadgetfs support in the kernel(headers?) for usb networking to work? Jul 02 14:47:19 sb just is so... well.. convienent Jul 02 14:47:23 and being a developer Jul 02 14:47:35 i'm all about laziness and convenience Jul 02 14:47:44 when it comes to stuff i'm not actually coding on Jul 02 14:47:45 :) Jul 02 14:47:56 raster: http://dominion.kabel.utwente.nl/koen/cms/using-openembedded-toolchains-in-scratchbox Jul 02 14:49:00 ... you're trying to force me to use debian system ... aren't you ... :. Jul 02 14:49:15 koen: bookmarked for my weekend pleasures :) Jul 02 14:49:44 i think rpath,t2 or opensde is much simpler to use then oe Jul 02 14:49:53 raster: I think that stuff like that will be available when the phones go on sale Jul 02 14:51:05 koen: :) Jul 02 14:51:27 koen: i can live without Jul 02 14:51:44 i originally did my cross-compiling years ago with custom shell scripts Jul 02 14:52:02 i just became lazy and spoiled by SB Jul 02 14:52:03 :) Jul 02 14:53:04 balrog-kun: does the BUILD machine also need to have dummy_hcd and gadgetfs support in the kernel(headers?) for usb networking to work? Jul 02 14:53:24 not for building Jul 02 14:54:17 this build is retarded Jul 02 14:55:13 raster: fwiw, scratchbox has some weirdness with python since the interpreter runs on the host and the modules in the emulator, so beware of that Jul 02 14:55:58 koen: doesnt bother me. i'm pytho-free Jul 02 14:55:59 :) Jul 02 14:56:05 python Jul 02 14:56:17 cool Jul 02 14:56:24 python makes my eyes bleed Jul 02 14:56:26 someone, please, explain why it can't find the f%^&%^&ing gelf.h file, it's there! I can see it.... WTF Jul 02 14:56:27 m4 too Jul 02 14:56:54 some people say my C makes peoples eyes bleed too Jul 02 14:56:57 but hey Jul 02 14:57:03 i like my bnleeding! Jul 02 14:57:04 :) Jul 02 14:57:57 ravan: yes, the build machine has to have the right kernel headers Jul 02 14:58:22 raster: I saw your 'compact c' demo file a few years ago :) Jul 02 14:58:41 compact c? Jul 02 14:59:45 it seemed you thought line endings were overrated Jul 02 15:00:01 hmm Jul 02 15:00:03 that was me? Jul 02 15:00:14 i tend to like lots of lines Jul 02 15:00:19 except in cetain situations Jul 02 15:00:21 sometimes i do Jul 02 15:00:27 a = 1; b = 2; c = 3; Jul 02 15:00:30 or Jul 02 15:00:33 http://xkr47.outerspace.dyndns.org/tmp/myself.c Jul 02 15:00:40 x = a + y; w = a * y; Jul 02 15:00:42 etc. Jul 02 15:00:54 if i have groups of assignments that are simple arithmetic Jul 02 15:01:06 balrog-kun: the build and lab machines are different in my case Jul 02 15:01:31 balrog-kun: lab is running qemu and has the support Jul 02 15:01:36 unless this was some throw-away bit of c i did for giggles Jul 02 15:01:40 :) Jul 02 15:03:58 ravan: it is quite obvious that the build machine has to have the appropriate build environment, and the host machine the host environment Jul 02 15:04:11 headers are part of build environment Jul 02 15:37:23 hi Jul 02 15:37:49 hello. Jul 02 15:40:02 it's quiet in here. :) I just stopped by to pass the time until July 9th when I can order my openmoko Neo1973 phone. :) Jul 02 15:40:38 Right Jul 02 15:40:41 :) Jul 02 15:40:42 Hunger strike Jul 02 15:40:45 is there any alternative mirror for the win32 emu? Jul 02 15:42:10 the one in the wiki is down and i need it so bad :/ Jul 02 15:42:48 Tetraden - *duck* Run linux inside virtualbox, run qemu in linux. ;o) Jul 02 15:42:50 or does anyone have it and can send it to me? Jul 02 15:43:02 lol :D Jul 02 15:43:13 Or even better: Install linux. Jul 02 15:43:23 run linux in qemu and qemu in it :) Jul 02 15:44:06 maybe i could finally reinstall my kernel package so the real linux is running again Jul 02 15:44:10 balrog-kun - That was basicly my comment already. ;-) Jul 02 15:44:25 well, yes :p Jul 02 15:44:27 balrog-kun: http://bugs.openembedded.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2589 has a patch for qemu cvs that is supposed to fix segfaults on 64bit, could you have a look at it? Jul 02 15:44:47 one moment Jul 02 15:45:08 takes as much time as you want :) Jul 02 15:45:11 but i'm to stupid to figure out how to install a .deb package from my harddrive :S Jul 02 15:45:47 koen: oh it's for qemu-user Jul 02 15:45:54 Tetraden: .deb is already on your HD? dpkg -i Jul 02 15:46:24 okay, so i will try Jul 02 15:46:46 I'll be back... ;) Jul 02 15:46:47 Tetraden: hi! Jul 02 15:46:48 Tetraden - "dpkg -i foo.deb" Jul 02 15:47:27 Tetraden: I am sorry that the host for win32 build of qemu-neo1973 is offline at the moment. Jul 02 15:47:55 ah lol, you are this jserv :) Jul 02 15:48:12 koen: afaik some of these patches were discussed on qemu-devel numerous times Jul 02 15:48:48 i just don't pay attention to the qemu-user part (and imho the glibc locale generation should be rewritten to not require qemu or execution on host, which is a design flaw) Jul 02 15:49:01 jserv2: its no big problem. I just want to migrate the data from my old WM2003 already. Jul 02 15:49:13 balrog-kun: glibc should be rewritten :) Jul 02 15:49:26 it's drepper-ware Jul 02 15:49:26 but first of all i will reinstall my kernel Jul 02 15:49:30 Tetraden: ok, thanks for your interest. :-) Jul 02 15:49:30 heh Jul 02 15:49:58 jserv2: maybe you have the zip on your HDD? Jul 02 15:50:33 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Buying_Interest_List]] [[MokoMakefile]] Jul 02 15:50:45 Tetraden: However, I am confident to set up the host this week again. And, the host is planned to be used for OE/OM mirror in Taiwan. Jul 02 15:51:41 Tetraden: yes, I have one, but not for my laptop. I have to go to my office to prepare win32 build. Jul 02 15:51:48 does someone know if we want to support both PDU and TEXT modes in gsmd for SMS handling? Jul 02 15:53:22 jserv2: i can host the files Jul 02 15:55:05 it would be great if you could upload it somewhere along the way and post it temporarily into the wiki. Jul 02 15:55:43 Tetraden: good idea. Thanks! Jul 02 15:56:04 balrog-kun - Is TEXT used at all? Jul 02 15:56:44 Elrond: on init, gsmd switches to TEXT, but later there are some comments about PDU Jul 02 15:56:51 my favourite webhoster is www.yousendit.com because the reciever don't have to wait Jul 02 15:57:01 balrog-kun - Ahh, okay. Jul 02 15:57:18 Tetraden: p2p is another option Jul 02 15:57:49 If it's large, p2p is even better. Look, what OOo does for example. Jul 02 15:57:53 SpeedEvil: Yes, but a bit slow i think Jul 02 15:57:55 Or run your own webserver? Jul 02 15:58:13 Tetraden - It's faster in parts. Jul 02 15:58:29 If the number of people serving it is enough, of course. Jul 02 15:58:33 Tetraden: it's not like windows users can't build qemu and linux users can Jul 02 15:58:35 depending on what you want to download Jul 02 15:59:24 i don't see why you would have to wait for the binaries Jul 02 16:00:46 because i don't want an ordinary ARM emulation, but the Neo1973 tree of qemu and I don't know any other way to get it on win (sorry) Jul 02 16:01:22 mostly same way as on linux Jul 02 16:01:52 hi all Jul 02 16:01:57 or any other system for that matter :) Jul 02 16:02:09 (gone again) Jul 02 16:03:08 and (even if you will hang me for this) I don't really want to deal with qemu for just trying this os. Jul 02 16:04:02 you can try the linux OS without qemu Jul 02 16:04:32 lol, other vm software :P Jul 02 16:04:45 hmm, brb, 2 minutes Jul 02 16:04:48 You don't need to do emu Jul 02 16:04:55 ytou can just run it on x86 Jul 02 16:11:13 (script) openmoko-community: Sean Moss-Pultz Re: An alternative gaming top case Jul 02 16:11:47 counter Jul 02 16:11:47 (last update 2007-07-02T06:19) http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter 60% for P1 in 6 days 19:48:08 (6.825±1.0 days) (1662;242) Jul 02 16:11:51 re Jul 02 16:12:30 er Jul 02 16:12:47 a7 Jul 02 16:13:15 * SpeedEvil wanders over to his mail computer. Jul 02 16:15:20 * koen wants a gui for http://www.xmission.com/~bmidgley/embed/index.html#gps Jul 02 16:15:48 with a big thumb sized button saying "enable bluetooth gps" Jul 02 16:18:15 hi Jul 02 16:18:38 Hi Jul 02 16:23:59 balrog-kun: do you make your own openmoko-image ? Jul 02 16:24:26 ravan: i used only the ones from buildhost so far Jul 02 16:33:02 koen: same :P Jul 02 16:47:47 using the neo as a bluetooth gps device is kind of a neat idea. Jul 02 16:48:15 it's an agps device.... Jul 02 16:48:38 i have a dream Jul 02 16:48:40 that that doesn't matter Jul 02 16:50:14 ScaredyCat: At teh moment the A bit is not functional. Jul 02 16:56:35 ... k... Jul 02 16:56:50 balrog-kun: sorry for troubling you again.. but have you faced ---> gadget_read: event error: 22 Jul 02 16:57:38 this comesup when i do a usb_add gadget:1 Jul 02 16:58:00 ravan: lemme check what i get when i do usb_add gadget:1 Jul 02 16:58:55 don-o - neo-as-bt-gps: pavel does that, seems to work. Jul 02 16:59:15 ravan: yes, i'm getting the same Jul 02 16:59:21 it can be ignored Jul 02 16:59:58 Elrond: yes, but I want to use a non-hackish way with a good UI Jul 02 17:00:53 koen - I think, pavel started a python based thingy or so... Jul 02 17:01:01 Elrond: the problem with all the stuff that pavelm is doing that it is either the wrong way or flawed by design Jul 02 17:01:02 balrog-kun: ok. one last question.. do you know if any userspace programs are responsible for part of the usb networking communication(on the neo1973 side)? Jul 02 17:01:38 i think thats mostly usb gadget drivers Jul 02 17:01:49 with usual ifconfig Jul 02 17:02:04 koen - I haven't looked too closely. I never tried to run gllin on "my" neo. I probably should, so I know, that the gps chip works 100& instead of knowing, that it works 80% ;o) Jul 02 17:02:24 happycube: the networking works when i use the rootfs from the build server(and with my kernel image), but not with my own rootfs image Jul 02 17:02:43 how's pavel doing it? Jul 02 17:02:47 odd Jul 02 17:03:00 ravan: afaik there's nothing more that ifconfig in the userspace Jul 02 17:03:21 balrog-kun: ok Jul 02 17:03:24 ravan: hmm, there may be some ifup scripts that sets the IP cause it's always the same, not sure Jul 02 17:03:54 balrog-kun: ip config is in /etc/network/interfaces. i checked that it is right Jul 02 17:04:02 (on the device side) Jul 02 17:04:25 ravan: hmm i'm not getting the error 22 thing if i do usb_add gadget:1 after OpenMoko is fully booted Jul 02 17:04:51 only two times "s3c_udc_handle_packet: EP0 overrun" Jul 02 17:05:08 balrog-kun: did networking work when you got the error 22 thing? Jul 02 17:05:21 <-- heads home. Jul 02 17:05:24 ravan: i'll try again Jul 02 17:05:29 balrog-kun: thanks Jul 02 17:07:29 just wondering, any word on the usage policies about the GPS daemon, isnt it closed source?, Jul 02 17:07:55 it's closed source at the moment Jul 02 17:08:32 everybody with a neo should help the sphyrna dudes: http://projects.linuxtogo.org/plugins/scmsvn/viewcvs.php/?root=sphyrna Jul 02 17:10:06 koen, will the agpsd API eventually find its way in libgsmd?, forgive me for the weird question Jul 02 17:10:27 koen, you mean with a faster website? Jul 02 17:11:20 ravan: i tried like 8 times now at different points during the booting and didn't get that error 22 again :p only the first time Jul 02 17:11:21 Sup3rkiddo: afaik agpsd only needs a network connection Jul 02 17:11:33 balrog-kun: :( Jul 02 17:11:48 and networking was okay Jul 02 17:12:17 koen, so there wont be any API for apgsd?, would be swell if it becomes open Jul 02 17:12:51 ravan: did you also set up /etc/network/interfaces on the host so that the ip is always assigned? Jul 02 17:13:02 i didn't do that Jul 02 17:16:00 crashed Jul 02 17:21:05 ,,,,,,,,,,,, Jul 02 17:21:45 ravan: did you also set up /etc/network/interfaces on the host so that the ip is always assigned? Jul 02 17:22:45 balrog-kun: no. i run ifconfig after the usb0 interface comes up Jul 02 17:23:30 ravan: ok, that's what i do too Jul 02 17:23:34 balrog-kun: btw, the gadged_read error disappeared, but there are three EP0 overruns. it only works on my machine where are are two Jul 02 17:24:02 I really wish there was some indication of progress on a build.. (in terms of %age) Jul 02 17:24:30 ScaredyCat: me too.. the whole image took 7 hours today! Jul 02 17:24:34 ravan: hmm, seems the whole usb-gadget support will need some more work Jul 02 17:24:58 mine still isn't complete ravan - it fell over after 5 hours Jul 02 17:25:17 bluez-utils atm :> Jul 02 17:25:28 i don't know if it's worth improving the kernel side support or it's better to keep working around the annoyances Jul 02 17:25:28 balrog-kun: it works when i use the openmoko-devel-image which i build or the one from build host Jul 02 17:25:54 ravan: which is the one that doesn't work? Jul 02 17:25:57 ScaredyCat: Mine failed 3 times during the 7.5h build, but it was always svn-now failures Jul 02 17:26:05 balrog-kun: would using a version after 2.6.20 on the host help? Jul 02 17:26:05 Just had to restart it and it worked Jul 02 17:26:35 I'm still fighting with gelf.h existing in a parallel universe Jul 02 17:26:39 ravan: i don't think so, the gadgetfs driver had no significant changes for like 3 years Jul 02 17:27:40 i'm pretty sure i'm one of below 10 users that use it, globally Jul 02 17:28:11 things are rarely broken this way in the kernel Jul 02 17:28:23 Isn't it used for gumstix? Jul 02 17:28:53 SpeedEvil: i'm not sure, but gadgetfs is not used normally, Jul 02 17:29:11 it's marked as experimental in menuconfig and it definitely is Jul 02 17:29:19 Sup3rkiddo: look on http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Hardware:AGPS Jul 02 17:29:34 balrog-kun: the one built with the following diff to openmoko-image.bb ---> http://rafb.net/p/TBVHWP48.html Jul 02 17:29:36 SpeedEvil, doint it Jul 02 17:29:42 *doing Jul 02 17:30:24 ravan: hmm, should really matter. did you change the guest kernel config? Jul 02 17:30:35 balrog-kun: no Jul 02 17:30:48 balrog-kun: just that diff and then bitbake openmoko-image Jul 02 17:30:53 (not devel-image) Jul 02 17:31:23 ravan: are you getting any NAND read errors when linux scans the rootfs during boot for the first time? Jul 02 17:31:43 well, even this should really matter Jul 02 17:32:54 balrog-kun: no. no erros Jul 02 17:33:29 balrog-kun: you mean it matters or it doesn't? Jul 02 17:33:50 oops, shouldn't Jul 02 17:34:26 balrog-kun: that's what i thought Jul 02 17:35:18 balrog-kun: is there any other way to mount the neo file system on the host? Jul 02 17:36:01 ravan: no easy way that i know of Jul 02 17:36:04 NFS? Jul 02 17:36:15 sshfs? Jul 02 17:36:17 unless you want to boot from the SD and use a filesystem like ext2 Jul 02 17:36:31 Oh Jul 02 17:37:13 I wonder if nxclient/nxserver runs on the neo without optimizing Jul 02 17:37:55 balrog-kun: ok, i have to go home and sleep now. thanks for the help Jul 02 17:39:39 ScaredyCat: sorry for being afk earlier, but I fixed the libelf issue a few hours ago, and sent the fix to rwhitby. Just do a mokomakefile update. Jul 02 17:40:23 ahhh much goodness cesarb .... Jul 02 17:40:26 thanks Jul 02 17:40:51 ScaredyCat: the problem is not that it isn't there, is that it is there (it's finding the libelf from your host filesystem, which shouldn't be used in a cross-compile, and a sanity check notices it's doing something wrong and stops the build) Jul 02 17:41:13 ScaredyCat: btw, unless you update your mokomakefile first, you have to run the update twice to get the patch Jul 02 17:41:40 I'll redo the build completely ... just to make it clean Jul 02 17:42:03 I have 7 hours to kill.. :P Jul 02 17:42:09 ScaredyCat: no need to, just a update will be enough Jul 02 17:42:30 ... but I started a manual build.... Jul 02 17:42:42 'official' one... Jul 02 17:43:05 I suppse I could grab the makefile now.. Jul 02 17:43:10 that should work... Jul 02 17:44:22 I'll wget it, update and then kick off the build.... at least some of the stuff should be downloaded... it'd be really nice if it downloaded everything it needed, then started the build..... Jul 02 17:44:58 that way I could grab all the tar.gz's svn stuff etc before going on the road and compile it any time Jul 02 17:45:27 ScaredyCat: you'll have to copy your downloaded files to the "sources" directory (which is usually created when downloading the first package; you can create it manually) Jul 02 17:46:58 yah I have 416 in there atm Jul 02 17:47:19 ctually half that.. Jul 02 17:47:25 forgot about the md5's Jul 02 17:47:51 ok, I'll be back in about an hour cesarb .... Jul 02 17:48:08 I';ll kick off the makefile build and let you know, if you are about... Jul 02 17:48:55 are you in the US ? Jul 02 17:48:59 ... Jul 02 17:49:18 k, bbl.. ta much cesarb ... Jul 02 17:51:13 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Wishlist:Accessories]] [[Wish_List_-_Hardware]] [[Buying_Interest_List]] Jul 02 17:51:18 ScaredyCat: Brazil Jul 02 18:07:28 moin Jul 02 18:13:40 moinmoin. Jul 02 18:24:47 alp: a hint: andersca can't run away Jul 02 18:25:45 zecke: i find poking for review/landing works much better in the late evening Jul 02 18:25:55 (uk time) Jul 02 18:26:17 kind of patch-o-clock Jul 02 18:46:13 * Aria is away: Lunch Jul 02 19:12:07 damn network issues... Jul 02 19:28:08 ./. Jul 02 19:41:22 pH5: ping. have you done any gsmd hacking since the multiline support patches, in particular anyting sms related? Jul 02 19:41:46 pH5: also do you know whether we want to support sms'es through TEXT or PDU or both? Jul 02 19:43:10 balrog-kun: no, but I'd be very happy if anybody could point out why my patches hang the usock code after a successful multi-line reply. Jul 02 19:43:39 * pH5 hopes LaF0rge springs back to life soon after gta01 is released Jul 02 19:44:11 iirc, he wanted to support both. but that memory is kind of vague. Jul 02 19:44:13 pH5: ok, i will be trying to add SMSes so figuring this out will be part of it Jul 02 19:44:16 pH5 - Hi! Jul 02 19:45:06 balrog-kun: great. sms support is the most important missing part for me, but I lost interest a bit because there was nobody to communicate with about this. Jul 02 19:45:24 hi Elrond. any news insights into the hammerhead? Jul 02 19:45:29 s/news/new/ Jul 02 19:45:29 pH5 meant: hi Elrond. any new insights into the hammerhead? Jul 02 19:46:09 pH5 - Only few... I'm just commiting some bits into sphyrna. Jul 02 19:51:14 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Buying_Interest_List]] Jul 02 19:53:52 pH5 - decode.py can now read your longtrace.txt :-) Jul 02 20:01:08 * Aria is back (gone 01:14:54) Jul 02 20:15:34 counter Jul 02 20:15:34 (last update 2007-07-02T06:19) http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter 60% for P1 in 6 days 15:44:21 (6.656±1.0 days) (1663;242) Jul 02 20:39:28 does anyone know of the link for openmoko on the treo 650? Jul 02 20:39:45 planet.gnome.org Jul 02 20:41:12 thanks koen Jul 02 20:41:14 openmoko: 03andrew * r2356 10/trunk/src/host/qemu-neo1973/ (58 files in 11 dirs): Merge changes from cvs.savannah.nongnu.org:/sources/qemu. Jul 02 20:48:03 openmoko: 03andrew * r2357 10/trunk/src/host/qemu-neo1973/ (gnokiigsm/at-emulator.c target-arm/cpu.h target-arm/helper.c): Jul 02 20:48:03 openmoko: Set default ARM System Config reset value. Jul 02 20:48:03 openmoko: Report correct caller numbers. Jul 02 20:48:37 is phase X going to be multitouch? Jul 02 20:48:48 phase 1,2,3 etc Jul 02 20:49:21 if you write the software to emulate multitouch capabilities Jul 02 20:49:40 2 = no Jul 02 20:50:31 hi Jul 02 20:54:06 what language do you use to develop openmoko? Jul 02 20:54:06 robydrupo: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) Jul 02 21:00:03 robydrupo: C Jul 02 21:00:29 there are python bindings available Jul 02 21:03:16 Is it just me that's getting an error compiling the latest and greatest qemu-neo1973? Jul 02 21:03:18 gcc-3.4: pl031.o: Arquivo ou diretório inexistente Jul 02 21:03:36 looks like a file is missing from r2356 from 15 min ago... Jul 02 21:04:31 cesarb, i've had issues on i386 > 2344 Jul 02 21:04:40 and 2355 built on x86_64 for me Jul 02 21:04:47 have not tried 2356 Jul 02 21:04:58 daMaestro: x86_64 here Jul 02 21:06:58 cesarb: no, the file was forgotten from the last ocmmit Jul 02 21:07:30 i wonder where it got lost, i triple checked to make sure nothing is left out this time... Jul 02 21:08:38 openmoko: 03andrew * r2358 10/trunk/src/host/qemu-neo1973/hw/ (jazz_led.c pl031.c): Add files missing in last merge. Jul 02 21:20:33 it may sound stupid but as building the dev environment, is there a virtual machine image that I can just install? Jul 02 21:20:37 I mean run.. Jul 02 21:35:34 (script) planet: Jouston Huang: First week in OpenMoko http://jouston.no-ip.com/archives/000225.html Jul 02 21:39:02 mokoNinja nice Jul 02 21:40:37 zecke lol Jul 02 21:40:42 yes I read it too Jul 02 21:40:44 http://www.youtube.com/user/mokoNinja Jul 02 21:50:54 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Neo1973_compatible_cellphone_providers]] [[GPS]] [[Hardware:AGPS]] [[Gpsd]] Jul 02 21:51:11 zecke, yeah, videos! Jul 02 21:53:25 heh, bsg slideshow on gta01 Jul 02 21:53:41 mickeyl is now famous Jul 02 21:53:45 hahaahaaa Jul 02 21:53:55 the soundtrack is annoying as hell Jul 02 21:54:10 FIC headquarters. whoho. Jul 02 21:54:41 ninja's :) Jul 02 21:54:55 woah. blueprints. Jul 02 21:57:24 nice work, ninja! :-D Jul 02 21:57:52 mokoNinja++ Jul 02 21:59:25 hehehe droptest video is funny Jul 02 22:07:22 anyone managed to build the mokomakefile in debian lenny? Jul 02 22:07:25 hm funny...like 2 weeks ago someone pirated TV broadcasting of major(national) TV in Czechia - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MzaN2x8qXcM Jul 02 22:07:32 that's funny :) Jul 02 22:08:33 whats funny about that? Jul 02 22:09:22 they not really hacked the tv Jul 02 22:09:27 they hacked a webcam Jul 02 22:09:32 yep Jul 02 22:09:34 which shows the pictures Jul 02 22:10:15 okey..? Jul 02 22:11:49 the funny thing is: it was live on tv this morning Jul 02 22:12:03 edistar: well it would be better if you pastebin.com your problem... Jul 02 22:13:35 now we could use an actual counter bot. Jul 02 22:14:55 and one of the most discussed topic here in Czechia and Poland is if we should have US radar/missiles here, so I find that nuclear explosion really funny :p Jul 02 22:16:14 ynezz you know against whom this missile would be used Jul 02 22:16:22 russia! Jul 02 22:16:38 yes Jul 02 22:17:07 counter Jul 02 22:17:07 (last update 2007-07-02T06:19) http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter 60% for P1 in 6 days 13:42:48 (6.571±1.0 days) (1664;242) Jul 02 22:23:23 Would it disturb you to find an application called "PonyFrog" preinstalled on your PC? Jul 02 22:23:42 Yes Jul 02 22:24:14 Aria: So did it me Jul 02 22:24:19 Just got my laptop Jul 02 22:24:54 Hmm, preinstalled? Jul 02 22:25:00 looks like most of the hardware in the iPhone is already implemented in qemu Jul 02 22:25:42 yes Jul 02 22:25:44 why not Jul 02 22:26:15 nox-Hand: kiddie game? Jul 02 22:26:29 summatusmentis: Something scienc´:| Jul 02 22:26:36 hm google doesnt find much about ponyfrog Jul 02 22:26:37 Preinstalled college apps Jul 02 22:26:46 lol, a science related tool called PonyFrong Jul 02 22:26:52 PonyFrog* Jul 02 22:31:15 have my superwaba app running on my Zire71 and my Vx Jul 02 22:31:20 \o/ Jul 02 22:49:57 yay, i got away with building gsmd in qemu, won't need to install the whole build environment shebang to hack gsmd Jul 02 22:50:22 much quicker and in a fraction of diskspace requierd by OE Jul 02 22:50:48 hm *sigh* Jul 02 22:50:59 alreay fixe bluez-tools with uclibc Jul 02 22:51:15 changing a kernel has ugly side affects Jul 02 22:51:20 +header Jul 02 23:07:07 BTW: Is the rtc working for anyone on the real hardware? Jul 02 23:07:18 (I assume, it's only a software problem) Jul 02 23:07:32 will neo1973 support external keyboard? Jul 02 23:08:00 yup - bt keyboards and ext. powered usb Jul 02 23:08:04 dietricha - BT keyboards, yes. I think, that was tested even. Jul 02 23:08:18 Elrond: ok, thanks! Jul 02 23:08:26 YO! Jul 02 23:09:06 Oh, yeah, usb ones, if you have a powered hub. Jul 02 23:09:16 ... I think, _that_ part was not tested. Jul 02 23:09:47 300bux eh? Jul 02 23:09:47 acidjazz_: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) Jul 02 23:10:08 yup, 300bux Jul 02 23:10:33 any other supported device comin out soon? Jul 02 23:10:39 like w/ a qwerty :) Jul 02 23:11:12 Elrond: there at least three RTC's :) Jul 02 23:11:25 balrog-kun - three?! Jul 02 23:11:36 balrog-kun - In the SoC and the PMU... which one else? Jul 02 23:11:52 Elrond: in the modem there's one more Jul 02 23:12:52 the modem, iirc even has a separate usb controller and more stuff :) Jul 02 23:13:11 balrog-kun: don't forget the fact that the GPS can also give you the time ;-) Jul 02 23:13:46 cesarb: oh, yes, and maybe it even has a whole SoC in it :p Jul 02 23:13:55 but we won't know Jul 02 23:14:19 Well, according to our findings, it's mid-dumb. Jul 02 23:14:33 balrog-kun - Huh, the gsm modem has an RTC?! Jul 02 23:14:42 ... and usb? Jul 02 23:14:55 Elrond: btw. do you have an idea abotu how to emulate the GPS at this point already? Jul 02 23:15:02 Elrond: yeah, an entire ARM based SoC Jul 02 23:15:12 but no MMU Jul 02 23:15:40 that way they could make a usb-based data plugin... not that anyone would buy a gprs-only unit now Jul 02 23:16:54 balrog-kun - We have some ideas on the gps chip... but writing an emulator is way beyond our ideas... Jul 02 23:17:46 Elrond: is there many possible messages that we can send *to* the GPS to which it must respond? Jul 02 23:18:20 we could just hardcode some responses and output some other messages hardcoded in the emulator, without really understanding what they mean Jul 02 23:19:04 balrog-kun - Hmm, a few bunches, yes... Jul 02 23:19:13 Like 20 or so in both directions. Jul 02 23:19:25 i see :/ Jul 02 23:20:35 I can extract some blobs... but writing an emulator is not yet on our list. Jul 02 23:20:52 ... it might of course also help, because we could feed gllin with fake data and see, how it reacts. Jul 02 23:21:34 yeah, and actually not understanding the protocol doesn't necesarily make the emulation harder Jul 02 23:22:02 hehe. Jul 02 23:22:11 because we don't parse the requests, we just hardcode the responses and have a good excuse for lack of GPS logic Jul 02 23:24:31 heh, we could simulate funny thing like a configuration of satellites that would be seen from outter space :) Jul 02 23:24:44 *G* Jul 02 23:25:03 or satellites having speeds higher than they normally should Jul 02 23:27:16 How hard would it be to connect a python program as the gps? Jul 02 23:27:43 Or a C program for that matter. Jul 02 23:27:49 rather trivial, no qemu code modification Jul 02 23:28:20 Well, the gps is on the second rs232... qemu emulates both? Jul 02 23:28:37 there are already hooks for connecting the serials to named pipes, ttys, serial ports, unix sockets or potentially python programs Jul 02 23:28:46 yup, and a third one too Jul 02 23:29:18 Ahh, great. Jul 02 23:30:18 i think the syntax is something like -serial vc -serial pipe: Jul 02 23:31:31 in particular it could be connected over ssh to a real hammerhead Jul 02 23:34:11 hehe. :-)) Jul 02 23:34:49 Still the dream is a g_serial, that can redirect to another local serial port. ;-) Jul 02 23:41:56 balrog-kun - Well, the rtc in the pmu is probably the best option, because it has the connection to the battery. Jul 02 23:43:11 yeah Jul 02 23:43:37 i know there is a driver for it but i don't know if there are any userspace tools to tackle RTCs Jul 02 23:43:49 i know you can set the time in it from under u-boot Jul 02 23:44:33 Ahh. I haven't seen that part in u-boot Jul 02 23:45:15 humm, i should check maybe Jul 02 23:46:34 i may have remembered wrong Jul 02 23:47:16 Well, "I haven't seen" does not mean, that it's not there. Just means, I haven't yet looked closely. Jul 02 23:47:34 It starts to bother me, that the neo always has 1970. ;-) Jul 02 23:47:56 Elrond: true, it should be 1973 instead Jul 02 23:48:26 *lol* Jul 02 23:48:28 Yeah. Jul 02 23:49:08 Anyway. I need to go to bed now. :-) Jul 02 23:49:12 Good night people. Jul 02 23:50:42 good night Jul 02 23:51:14 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Neo1973_case_schematics]] [[Category:Neo1973_Hardware]] [[FAQ]] Jul 03 00:03:30 YAY!...six more days to go. Jul 03 00:04:08 usb host... yes or no? Jul 03 00:04:35 iirc, yes, but it's unpowered? Jul 03 00:04:46 hmmm, I wonder if my camera cares Jul 03 00:04:56 its got its own batteries, you'd think it'd be ok Jul 03 00:05:08 they often care regardless Jul 03 00:05:15 ...bastards! Jul 03 00:05:27 that's what I've said Jul 03 00:05:53 maybe I can take the batteries out, and put them into a usb power line :) Jul 03 00:06:00 that ought to fool it Jul 03 00:06:10 thing is, voltage in the usb line is a good indicator that it's hooked up Jul 03 00:06:16 so it's often used as such Jul 03 00:06:25 even if the device actually doesn't need any power Jul 03 00:06:31 from there, anyway Jul 03 00:06:38 couldn't the neo provide 5V @ 0,1mA? Jul 03 00:06:45 it can't Jul 03 00:07:05 There is no 5V converter in there. Jul 03 00:07:08 oh well Jul 03 00:07:12 It could, using the dc-dc converter. Jul 03 00:07:17 At least yet. Jul 03 00:07:28 yes, it coulda shoulda woulda Jul 03 00:07:29 SpeedEvil - The pcf thingy can't go to 5V?! Jul 03 00:07:30 but it can't Jul 03 00:07:45 Elrond: It probably could - but there is no hardware there. Jul 03 00:07:59 still, I'm sure there is some kind of synergy I can find between the neo and my SLR Jul 03 00:08:21 Port OpenMoko to the SLR! Jul 03 00:08:25 the usb host functionality is kinda a byproduct of the soc anyway Jul 03 00:08:47 Hmm. Jul 03 00:09:01 heh, it'd be interesting having an open source SLR Jul 03 00:09:11 although I'm pretty happy with the existing firmware Jul 03 00:09:38 unlike with most phones the firmware seems to do everything I can think of that'd be relevant Jul 03 00:10:06 well, thanks for answering my question... Jul 03 00:10:09 I'm off to bed Jul 03 00:10:12 'nite all Jul 03 00:10:15 Night. Jul 03 00:10:47 Huh. Jul 03 00:10:48 SpeedEvil - : Jul 03 00:10:49 +static u_int8_t dcudc_voltage(unsigned int millivolts) Jul 03 00:10:50 ... Jul 03 00:10:57 ? Jul 03 00:11:01 + if (millivolts > 5500) Jul 03 00:11:01 + return 0x1f; Jul 03 00:11:02 ... Jul 03 00:11:04 Or maybe it can. Jul 03 00:11:18 Isn't that the battery in voltage? Jul 03 00:11:18 + millivolts -= 4000; Jul 03 00:11:18 + return millivolts/100; Jul 03 00:11:20 ... Jul 03 00:11:41 No, that's the "how to convert SI to bits for the dc-dc-converter. Jul 03 00:11:55 Anyway. SI? Jul 03 00:11:56 So 0xa is 5V. :-) Jul 03 00:12:06 Well - yes. Jul 03 00:12:20 SpeedEvil - SI== standard unit system. ;-) Jul 03 00:12:22 Even if you can set a voltage rail for 5V, that may be a very bad thing. Jul 03 00:12:51 And software settable voltage rails strike me as a bad plan generally. Jul 03 00:12:57 Right. Not to mention, that none of those dcdc-converters is linked to the usb. :-) Jul 03 00:13:34 It's probably quite simple to tie a 5V generator to the battery input voltage and the 3.3V rail. Jul 03 00:13:42 Using the 3.3V line as an enable. Jul 03 00:13:46 SpeedEvil - Oh well... don't get me started on that... the kernel send 1.xV instead of 3.3V to the gps chip for ages... ;o) Jul 03 00:13:59 And solder it to the USB Jul 03 00:14:23 Soldering of course will be fun. Jul 03 00:15:06 You'd need to be very careful. The usb thing is usually used the other way round. Sending power to some host is bad idea, I guess. Jul 03 00:15:17 Well. Jul 03 00:15:28 It would need to have a current limit Jul 03 00:15:44 I wonder if the USB spec says anything about this. Jul 03 00:15:47 I suspect not Jul 03 00:15:58 USB spec sucks anyway. Jul 03 00:16:08 USB OTG says something, I'd guess. ;o) Jul 03 00:16:16 It should have had from day 1 a 'high power' mode for suitable devices. Jul 03 00:16:24 30V @0.5A Jul 03 00:16:46 Plug a device into a 'high power' hub, and if the device requests it, it gets the high power feed. Jul 03 00:16:56 15W will cover most devices. Jul 03 00:17:08 2.5W misses out a lot. Jul 03 00:17:09 that would have been nice Jul 03 00:17:13 also 3.3V :] Jul 03 00:17:14 Hmmm, yeah. Jul 03 00:17:36 SpeedEvil - Well, imageine those crappy dumb chargers then doing 30V ;o| Jul 03 00:17:42 Yeah - only 5V is mandatory to support. Jul 03 00:18:50 I guess they knew from day 1, that people would create dumb chargers. and wanted to stop anyone from creating a 30V dumb charger. :-) Jul 03 00:19:25 Anyway. I _really_ need to go to bed now. :) Jul 03 00:19:44 * Elrond heads away, before another topic catches him. Jul 03 00:21:47 A dumb charger isn't actually precluded in the USB spec. Jul 03 00:21:53 IIRC Jul 03 00:22:04 it's a valid state for an unconnected hub. Jul 03 00:24:00 i think usb is supposed to negotiate whether or not the hub can provide power, and how much Jul 03 00:25:11 look what happened when apple raised the 1394 voltage/current on the g5 Jul 03 00:25:14 it roasted a few hubs Jul 03 00:25:15 ;) Jul 03 00:31:20 galexande: that's not quite how it works. Jul 03 00:31:39 galexande: the computer talks to each device as it's connected, and configures them. Jul 03 00:32:18 If there is no computer at the host side of the hub IIRC having 5V on the hub outputs is valid Jul 03 00:32:32 Even with no active USB bus. Jul 03 00:32:48 The problem arises then though that there is no way to tell what current is available. Jul 03 00:39:12 speed, yeah, exactly :) Jul 03 00:39:22 but your dumb device can draw half an amp and find out whether or not it works :) Jul 03 00:39:36 That's also outside the USB spec. Jul 03 00:40:02 *sigh* Jul 03 00:40:05 If the hub is in fact connected to a system in suspend, powering other devices in suspend, you can trip off the bus. Jul 03 00:40:22 Causing much nastiness when it comes out of suspend. Jul 03 00:40:33 Horrible little corner cases. Jul 03 01:13:51 had to happen, make your WM5/6 mobile phone look like an iPhone (nice hack though) http://www.i-hacked.com/index.php?option=content&task=view&id=253 Jul 03 01:15:58 How do I make the on-screen keyboard appear? Jul 03 01:21:01 cesarb: white box at top Jul 03 01:25:04 hm, how come I never noticed it? Jul 03 01:52:34 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Alternate_Neo1973_case_designs]] [[Neo1973_case_schematics]] [[Category:Neo1973_Hardware]] [[Alternate_Neo1973_case_ideas]] Jul 03 01:58:52 yarg, wish i could get this infernal qemu to work Jul 03 01:59:16 qemu drove me to vmware Jul 03 01:59:34 apparently the accelerated part is non-free (ie. a seperate app) Jul 03 01:59:49 mosno, do you emulate openmoko hardware on vmware? Jul 03 01:59:51 and it was flaky as hell (high proc loads would cause strange behaviour in the guest os) Jul 03 01:59:58 peepsalot: no Jul 03 02:01:54 i followed the instructions on the wiki, but it fails when running flash.sh Jul 03 02:02:31 it tries to call sleep with a bunch of invalid values (non-numbers) Jul 03 02:46:02 qemu acceleration is now gpl'd. Jul 03 02:46:35 wasn't that six months ago or so? Jul 03 02:47:02 as for the issues.. its open source. its issues are your own. be worth your salt, and your applications would start working. or maybe, just maybe you'd be good enough to fix it when it breaks. Jul 03 02:47:08 **** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Jul 03 02:59:57 2007