**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Jul 07 02:59:56 2007 Jul 07 03:56:31 * Linux_Galore waves Jul 07 03:56:48 Moin! Jul 07 03:59:14 heh @ http://www.totalueberwachung.de/blog/files/canihasaneo1.jpg Jul 07 04:49:22 How can i preorder one? Jul 07 04:49:22 MrKeuner: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) Jul 07 04:51:36 MrKeuner, by getting your wallet ready for monday, when the orders start Jul 07 04:52:45 if I buy a developer version, will I be able to upgrade it to mass market version later? By upgrading the firmware? Jul 07 04:53:15 mass market has different hardware, but software (firmware) you can update at any time Jul 07 04:53:28 or make your own firmware Jul 07 05:02:16 OK thanks Jul 07 06:21:37 awfully quiet in here Jul 07 06:57:25 Sup3rkiddo: everybody is holding breath ;-) Jul 07 06:57:34 aloril, :P Jul 07 06:59:21 anticipation builds character Jul 07 07:00:36 i did some research on carriers today.... i'm not at all impressed with data plan pricing Jul 07 07:01:43 sooooo i hope bluetooth networking works pretty well Jul 07 07:01:52 or some sort of tethering Jul 07 07:03:03 no reason it shouldn't, or usb networking Jul 07 07:03:18 where do you live? Jul 07 07:03:57 mjr, Colorado, USA Jul 07 07:04:01 righto Jul 07 07:04:10 so i get to pick between tmobile and att Jul 07 07:04:13 US carriers aren't the most user-friendly ones Jul 07 07:04:20 no, not at all Jul 07 07:04:23 especially data price wise Jul 07 07:04:40 they are more about "canned" service Jul 07 07:05:13 aka... video on demand from the publishers willing to subsidize the costs of higher bitrates Jul 07 07:14:40 how do i start the openmoko image - i built with mokomakefile - with qemu? Jul 07 07:15:49 make qemu Jul 07 07:16:31 actually, make flash-qemu-local then make run-qemu Jul 07 07:17:16 hmm.. Jul 07 07:17:16 Splash needs 'pngtopnm' and 'ppmtorgb3' - make sure that they're in $PATH. Jul 07 07:17:17 make: *** [flash-qemu-local] Error 255 Jul 07 07:19:34 yep, you need to read the MokoMakefile page on the wiki first, and install all the prerequisites listed there. Jul 07 07:19:52 ok, thx =) Jul 07 07:24:27 i didn't have lynx and netpbm installed.. Now it should work. Thanks again :P Jul 07 08:04:04 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Alternate_Neo1973_case_designs]] Jul 07 08:06:13 \o/ it's working! :D Jul 07 08:25:44 ahoi Jul 07 08:26:15 mhh are n800 images available freely? because if they are, here's arm skype and arm flash 9 http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS6698414012.html Jul 07 08:40:47 Hi. I wonder whether or not I will be able to buy and use this phone in Europe, especially Germany. (Being able to call people over the local phone-net-providers) Anybody knows? :) Jul 07 08:40:47 dennda: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) Jul 07 08:41:30 yes, faq has links Jul 07 08:43:05 I am currently reading it. Didn't discover it yet. Sorry. :) Jul 07 08:43:16 and thanks Jul 07 08:53:55 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ#Q:_What_providers_provide_the_GSM_required_for_Neo1973.3F Jul 07 08:58:55 heck I am looking forward on seeing the mass market device being released Jul 07 09:02:23 damn... for me, openmoko under qemu is very slow Jul 07 09:02:37 Any tricks to make it faster? :P Jul 07 09:05:17 works like vista on a pIII Jul 07 09:10:28 Basheri: It's slow for me too on an amd64 3000+ Jul 07 09:10:51 ok Jul 07 09:11:03 I wish i had intel =) Jul 07 09:11:24 Core2 rocks :) Jul 07 09:12:47 Basheri: that's intended to get you ready for the speed of the real device. Jul 07 09:12:59 Hehe Jul 07 09:13:20 :P Jul 07 09:14:23 is there some way to allow it to use more memory or something? Jul 07 09:25:45 hi Jul 07 09:53:51 counter Jul 07 09:53:51 (last update 2007-07-06T13:15) http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter 60% for P1 in 2 days 02:06:03 (2.088±1.0 days) (1692;246) Jul 07 10:05:03 is there a way to adjust the qemu window to be the same size as the neo screen Jul 07 10:05:04 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Buying_Interest_List]] [[Wish_List]] Jul 07 10:10:37 howdy Jul 07 10:23:23 counter Jul 07 10:23:24 (last update 2007-07-06T13:15) http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter 60% for P1 in 2 days 01:36:31 (2.067±1.0 days) (1693;246) Jul 07 10:26:44 (script) openmoko-neo1973: "Michael 'Mickey' Lauer" Re: SMedia 3362 Graphics Accelerator Jul 07 10:52:45 koen|train, you're going the wrong way :) Jul 07 10:53:12 .nl is +1 hour... ;) Jul 07 10:58:35 ^^^ somone playing Monkey Island too much ;) Jul 07 11:07:08 ^^ Jul 07 11:26:33 Hi people. Jul 07 11:26:49 Hi you. Jul 07 11:27:00 Hi apic Jul 07 11:28:03 hi Jul 07 11:30:11 lo Jul 07 11:30:15 bugger.. Jul 07 11:30:17 hi Jul 07 11:30:55 up, down? ;o) Jul 07 11:31:32 * ScaredyCat has been reading and installing.... Jul 07 11:31:43 and then I drove all night.... Jul 07 11:32:08 * Elrond is resizing fs, moving them around using lvm2 ;o) Jul 07 11:32:39 i resized mine with rm :) Jul 07 11:33:02 hehe. ;o) Jul 07 11:33:39 The only thing I have to complain yet: xfs can't be shrunken. Jul 07 11:38:28 I really wish I had a laptop with dual drives... Jul 07 11:43:13 there are laptops with 2 hd's, a bluray-rw and a dvd-rw drive :) Jul 07 11:43:28 with 20" and about 20 pounds -.- Jul 07 11:44:10 *G* Jul 07 11:47:51 and of course, you'd want to hook that up to the Neo, right? Jul 07 11:48:12 of course..... Jul 07 11:48:43 and the battery needs to last at least 24 hours Jul 07 11:50:04 counter Jul 07 11:50:04 (last update 2007-07-06T13:15) http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter 60% for P1 in 2 days 00:09:50 (2.007±1.0 days) (1694;246) Jul 07 11:50:18 oooooooooeeeeeee ooooooo Jul 07 11:53:05 when people start to receive their neos, i demand videos of neo running Jul 07 11:53:16 Since i don't have the money to buy one :P Jul 07 11:53:52 i get one from my employer ;) Jul 07 11:54:36 8o Jul 07 11:55:15 well, actually i do have the money, but i have to buy the gta2 and a laptop Jul 07 11:55:59 Basheri: bluetooth keyboard, and a magnifying glass. Jul 07 11:56:11 :D Jul 07 11:56:23 lol Jul 07 11:56:43 not quite enough horse power i'm afraid :P Jul 07 11:56:50 big fresnel lens Jul 07 11:57:05 ScaredyCat: how did you know that's what I just got? Jul 07 11:57:17 ScaredyCat: and why I don't have enough for a Neo? :) Jul 07 11:57:19 SpeedEvil - Magnifying glass like in this old scify movie? I try to remember the name.. Jul 07 11:57:38 Brazil Jul 07 11:57:39 1984? Jul 07 11:57:44 yeah - that Jul 07 11:57:49 Yeah, Brazil! Jul 07 11:58:24 Where can you get an old-typewriter style bluetooth keyb though. Jul 07 11:58:32 Stephmw, you must have got it as a gift for me.... Jul 07 11:58:46 steampunk lad Jul 07 11:58:54 s/lad/labs/ Jul 07 11:58:54 ScaredyCat meant: steampunk labs Jul 07 11:58:54 ScaredyCat: http://www.usa.canon.com/consumer/controller?act=CanonAdvantageTopicDtlAct&id=2632 Jul 07 11:59:13 ScaredyCat: and more precisely... http://www.usa.canon.com/consumer/controller?act=ModelInfoAct&fcategoryid=150&modelid=9996 Jul 07 11:59:47 ouch Jul 07 11:59:57 what's the average price for a reasonable bluetooth keyboard? Jul 07 12:00:28 35quid Jul 07 12:00:30 Basheri - For a typewrite one? ;o) Jul 07 12:01:10 just some nice and small Jul 07 12:02:11 usb one, small enuff? http://linitx.com/viewproduct.php?prodid=10779 Jul 07 12:02:14 :P Jul 07 12:03:06 I bet that lens cost an arm and a leg Stephmw Jul 07 12:03:09 hehe, indeed :P Jul 07 12:04:24 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[User:Gadfly]] Jul 07 12:06:11 * Stephmw hops around Jul 07 12:06:23 ScaredyCat: yeah, £550 2ndhand Jul 07 12:06:33 oh my... Jul 07 12:06:58 that's like, and openmoko dev unit, *and* a consumer unit Jul 07 12:07:18 yup, no sweeties or gadgets for the rest of the year Jul 07 12:07:21 had to prioritise Jul 07 12:07:28 my friend's dad just spent ~1000e for a camera Jul 07 12:07:52 * Stephmw really should take photos of his kit, for insurance purposes Jul 07 12:08:16 * ScaredyCat spent 24.99 on a 10 pack of disposable cameras ;) Jul 07 12:08:39 Stephmw, ahh but how do you take the photo of the camera Jul 07 12:09:01 mirror ;o) Jul 07 12:09:07 :) Jul 07 12:09:21 ScaredyCat: point'n'shoot camera... or a mirror I guess :D Jul 07 12:09:43 but then the insurance company might think they were insuring Stephmw, Elrond Jul 07 12:09:57 :D Jul 07 12:11:26 I used to really like quavers... so I got some for my trip last night.... Jul 07 12:11:34 ... I don;t like them any more... Jul 07 12:11:38 too much salt :( Jul 07 12:12:18 * Elrond considered a sony dsc-r1 for a while... Jul 07 12:15:24 http://www.expansys.com/p.aspx?i=124250 Jul 07 12:15:28 that seems nice =) Jul 07 12:16:19 nokia 770 are only 75 quid Jul 07 12:16:23 on expansys Jul 07 12:16:54 Basheri: you know you're a photogeek when your lenses start costing more than your cameras :) Jul 07 12:16:59 ScaredyCat: yeah, saw that Jul 07 12:17:03 ScaredyCat: very tempting Jul 07 12:17:24 yikes... that BT keyboard's pricy at £60 Jul 07 12:17:27 they pushed back the delivery date Jul 07 12:17:51 Stephmw, " yup, no sweeties or gadgets for the rest of the year" Jul 07 12:17:59 * Stephmw hangs head in shame Jul 07 12:18:03 caught. Jul 07 12:18:03 hehehe Jul 07 12:31:23 Okay... unplugging the battery for days helped the "put battery in, plug usb in, neo boots immediately" thing to work again. But still the gps chip doesn't work the first time, just the second. very strange. Jul 07 12:32:44 Hi mickeyl! :-) Jul 07 12:32:56 Elrond: maybe only starts 'working' after it's acquired a lock? Jul 07 12:33:01 hey mickeyl Jul 07 12:33:14 morning Jul 07 12:34:10 Stephmw - I'm talking lowlevel to the chip. "My" neo never saw gllin. ;-) Jul 07 12:34:39 Or maybe it saw gllin in the construction plant. ;-) Jul 07 12:34:54 But I doubt it. gllin would not have worked at that time. Kernel bugginess. Jul 07 12:44:21 ScaredyCat: you might appreciate this one, http://blog.tangency.co.uk/2007/07/common-sense.html Jul 07 12:56:48 openmoko: 03mickey * r2368 10/trunk/oe/packages/ (alsa/oe-sync oe-to-verify): oe: sync alsa with org.openembedded.dev Jul 07 13:11:49 openmoko: 03mickey * r2369 10/trunk/oe/packages/ (oe-to-verify uboot/oe-sync): oe: uboot has been already merged w/ org.openembedded.dev Jul 07 13:13:03 mickeyl - What I meant about review yesterday was: With a certain amount of people, a more structured review process might help. Or some "okay, you really think, that this code is crap, and you're devoting your time for reviewing not fixing, then please put your note " Jul 07 13:15:10 Elrond: we have a structured review process at my place, informally: quick/1-2 day change, 1 reviewer Jul 07 13:15:14 Elrond: that's what i meant as well Jul 07 13:15:21 this is one of the assets of an open source process Jul 07 13:15:28 2-5 day change, 2 reviewers. More --> sub team review Jul 07 13:15:32 in almost all oss projects i was part of it worked like that Jul 07 13:15:34 peer review Jul 07 13:15:50 but since we had not enough people familiar with this way of working, it didn't happen Jul 07 13:16:07 even worse, changes were overwritten, things changed without communicating etc. Jul 07 13:16:15 and this -- like i said -- will change Jul 07 13:16:19 with the new team Jul 07 13:18:18 Hi all. I'm trying to get openmoko running under QEMU, following the instructions on the wiki. Everything works well until the "openmoko/flash.sh" stage, where I get a long error message: http://pastebin.com/943831 Jul 07 13:18:23 Can anyone help? Jul 07 13:18:24 Commands: counter (see estimated time until P1), counter_msg (set message for counter), faq (gives this link: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ ) Jul 07 13:26:01 counter counter couner Jul 07 13:26:08 or something Jul 07 13:26:12 counter Jul 07 13:26:12 (last update 2007-07-06T13:15) http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter 60% for P1 in a day 22:33:43 (1.940±1.0 days) (1695;246) Jul 07 13:26:32 * ScaredyCat dances about in anticip.... Jul 07 13:26:44 ...action Jul 07 13:26:54 s/action/ation/ Jul 07 13:26:54 ScaredyCat meant: ...ation Jul 07 13:27:05 uggered that up didn;t I Jul 07 13:27:08 +b Jul 07 13:33:49 mickeyl - Ahh, okay. :-) Jul 07 13:34:51 mickeyl - Well, it depends on the project. I know FOSS projects, where no review happens. ;) Jul 07 13:36:10 Elrond: sure thing. this is giving away a possibility to learn and improve the quality then Jul 07 13:43:57 * * OM Bug 631 has been created by  Jul 07 13:43:58 * * gfault when dbus not running Jul 07 13:43:59 * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=631 Jul 07 13:44:22 mickey|bbq - Yeah. I gave up working with them. And I'm trying to drop any dependencies I have on their code. ;o) Jul 07 13:53:05 it looks like this mailing list loopis actually inside of gmail Jul 07 14:05:30 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Translation]] Jul 07 14:07:29 this movie would suck without audience partici Jul 07 14:17:38 man, i wish i could buy the openmoko released on 9th of july :"( Jul 07 14:17:46 but gotta save up for the octobre one ;) (i _need_ wifi) Jul 07 14:26:49 so... the devices that are supposed to be after GTA02... should we expect at least a year turn around from when they're announced to when they go on sale? Jul 07 14:27:30 the implication ahs been that they are going to be announced soon Jul 07 14:27:37 after Oct Jul 07 14:28:21 SpeedEvil: right, so then, there's gonna be a dev time after the announcement, correct? or are they already being dev'd out, and should be available for sale? Jul 07 14:28:22 or maybe at the same time that it goes on sale Jul 07 14:28:42 There is stuff going on in development reportedly Jul 07 14:29:03 But I think, most devel goes into GTA02 currently. Jul 07 14:29:38 I guess I'm just wondering(I realize this is all speculation) the time from annoucement to availability for purchase Jul 07 14:29:41 the thing about open source development of commercial products is that there is going to be a long time between announcement and sale, since you can't keep the announcement secret when svn checkins are happening ... Jul 07 14:29:59 ah.. that's true Jul 07 14:30:47 But, simply checking in drivers of stuff that may be in future devices doesn't always imply that it'll be in any deviece. Jul 07 14:31:35 SpeedEvil: true, but in most cases it's pretty good indicator that would probably force an announcement earlier rather than later. Jul 07 14:31:47 yeah. Jul 07 14:33:06 at the other end of development, it will be hard for openmoko to do the mass market release earlier than when it really is ready, cause they will have many eyes looking at the "finished" product before it is shipped, and giving feedback on whether it really is finished or whether it needs more work. Jul 07 14:33:37 Yeah. Jul 07 14:34:01 And the current thing needs lots of work. Jul 07 14:34:45 so I should expect quite a bit of turn around? Jul 07 14:34:54 turn aroun time* Jul 07 14:35:13 There will be a long time between forseeable announcements and stuff for sale. Jul 07 14:35:29 Unless it's simple hardware mods. Jul 07 14:35:30 SpeedEvil: alright, thanks Jul 07 14:35:50 how many units will be produced? Jul 07 14:35:52 there's apprently 3 devices likely to be announced? Jul 07 14:35:55 For example, swapping out the NAND for one twice the size. Jul 07 14:36:06 goodfoot: 1000 of the current batch are ready Jul 07 14:37:03 * summatusmentis hopes one of the announced products will be a phone Jul 07 14:37:10 or at least a refresh to the neo Jul 07 14:37:27 * rwhitby hopes one will have a treo650-style keyboard Jul 07 14:38:48 my current provider(CDMA) won't let me out of contract when I move to an area that's not covered by them, and I'll be going to college, so I probably can't swing the cancellation fee Jul 07 14:39:03 so it's looking like I won't be getting the GTA02 either :-/ Jul 07 14:40:30 how is the frequency set? Jul 07 14:40:32 oops Jul 07 14:41:15 CDMA, no gsm, so there's no way to even use the GTA02 Jul 07 14:42:31 hi koen Jul 07 14:43:50 i'm almost intimidated by the large number of decisions that haven't even been made yet Jul 07 14:44:47 such as? I'm sure FIC has a plan, they're just not discussing them Jul 07 14:45:08 hey summatusmentis Jul 07 14:45:27 well, almost none of the applications have been written yet, and they're building the APIs for interapplication interaction with the applications Jul 07 14:46:14 so, it is possible i could get the default software to be something which would handle whatever pecuiliarities of my network setup Jul 07 14:46:15 I'm not a dev, but that seems to be the smart way to do things... that way it's known how the apps need to be written Jul 07 14:46:26 whereas ordinarily i would just throw away the (already written) default software and write my own network configurators :) Jul 07 14:46:45 lol Jul 07 14:47:11 hello, when do the openmokophone with wifi hit the stores? Jul 07 14:47:11 GTA02 (P2) will have WiFi (Atheros AR6K): http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ#Q:_What_is_the_rationale_behind_the_exclusion_of_WiFi.3F Jul 07 14:47:19 for example i'm going to use bluetooth for internet, and try not to spend any gprs money. so everything i touch will need off-line and on-line modes Jul 07 14:47:40 marsan, october at the earliest. Jul 07 14:48:24 kewl..i just saw this phone on a article on the net today..looks good and i love open source Jul 07 14:49:10 my guess is that by beginning of august we'll know how realistic the october date looks Jul 07 14:49:18 because we'll see how much still needs to be written and debugged :) Jul 07 14:49:49 well start writing then! Jul 07 14:49:51 :-) Jul 07 14:49:57 hehe Jul 07 14:50:53 galexande: I have the same philosophy using my Treo650. BT at home and office, and reading/writing everything offline in betweeen. Jul 07 14:51:38 how do you contact the dev team see if you can pitch in? Jul 07 14:52:22 arnath: write to coreteam@openmoko.org with your previous work. or check out the code, fix something, and attach a patch to the bugtracker. Jul 07 14:53:23 s/.org/.com/ Jul 07 14:53:24 rwhitby meant: arnath: write to coreteam@openmoko.com with your previous work. or check out the code, fix something, and attach a patch to the bugtracker. Jul 07 14:53:30 koen|inverness; hows the weather ? Jul 07 14:53:54 lrg_: blue skies for the first time when we left edinburg, inverness is a bit grey Jul 07 14:54:17 lrg_: we packed raingear and brought lots of goretex :) Jul 07 14:54:33 koen|inverness: cool ;) btw, can you email me your contact number if possible. Jul 07 14:54:34 and bought an umbrella Jul 07 14:54:34 arnath, concerning the money-issue: there was some discussion on the community list about selling only the gta_02 board. so you keep the case and the touchscreen, etc. and only swap the main board Jul 07 14:54:49 lrg_: +31619260390 Jul 07 14:54:51 question to the touchscreen. I'm writing an ap with a button with a mouse-out signal. will mouse-out will get activated when you move the stylus away from the screen? Jul 07 14:55:00 lrg_: my mailserver at home went down Jul 07 14:55:20 koen|inverness: thanks. I'll give you a call on Monday Jul 07 14:55:41 ok Jul 07 14:58:19 thomas, yeah the stylus generates usual "mouse down" on impact and "mouse up" on release Jul 07 14:59:05 but if by "out" you mean, exiting the window, i don't think it'll generate focus change events unless you use the windowmanager Jul 07 14:59:07 galexande, thx for the answer, perfect! Jul 07 15:01:54 openmoko: 03alphaone * r2370 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/artwork/themes/openmoko-standard/gtk-2.0/openmoko-footer-background.png: theme: Ugly hack to fix landscape styling issues (bug #595) Jul 07 15:04:05 how hard would it be to swap mainboards Jul 07 15:04:15 i.e. how are battery, lcd and antennas connected Jul 07 15:04:41 lcd is probably the hard one, i bet that it is mounted with a bunch of superfine zebra strips directly onto the board Jul 07 15:05:00 i bet enterprising hobbyists have correctly mounted lcds before, but it intimidates me Jul 07 15:05:16 like surface mount soldering, best done by robots :) Jul 07 15:05:41 i know people have taken it apart... Jul 07 15:05:52 not sure wheter anyone put it back together ;) Jul 07 15:05:53 usually when you take it apart the lcd comes off as part of the logic board Jul 07 15:06:11 i think its sandwiched Jul 07 15:06:17 i have seen pictures of lcd outside the case Jul 07 15:07:37 it looks like you're right, the photos of the display side of the board make it look like the lcd interfaces through one of those little ribbons Jul 07 15:07:46 like a laptop keyboard Jul 07 15:08:17 yeah Jul 07 15:08:22 just not sure how it is fastened Jul 07 15:09:21 i'd sure love to get inside the DSP on the GSM chipset Jul 07 15:09:38 i'm quite sure thats not entirely legal Jul 07 15:10:17 openmoko: 03alphaone * r2371 10/trunk/oe/packages/db/oe-sync: * This Bug is fixed in OE, too. Jul 07 15:10:37 yeah, and to top it off, i am sure the DSP has lots of designed protection Jul 07 15:10:54 those things are always made so you can flash it with an encrypted key Jul 07 15:11:04 i was going to say ;) Jul 07 15:11:22 tgo in some way i dont udnerstand why people bother with that Jul 07 15:11:42 it always seems like a waste, even moreso when it's between you and having a really cool toy Jul 07 15:11:57 galexande - It's an arm7tdmi on the gsm modem. Jul 07 15:12:01 buz, http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Image:Gta01b_v4_back.png Jul 07 15:12:09 elrond, there's a TI chip in there too Jul 07 15:12:15 unless that's the gps Jul 07 15:12:22 TI makes the gsm module Jul 07 15:12:28 so there would be TI hardware in there, yes Jul 07 15:12:29 No, the gps is global locate/infineon. Jul 07 15:12:47 buz, see the connector in the lower-right corner? I can't think of anything there that would connect to the LCD but that one. Jul 07 15:12:56 Ahh, yeah, the module has parts, right. base band something. Jul 07 15:13:13 there was a pic with the lcd and a ribbon cable Jul 07 15:14:32 i would assume the DSP is mostly for the gsm vocoding compression crap Jul 07 15:14:33 actually i think thats the debug connector Jul 07 15:14:39 http://www.flickr.com/photos/rwhitby/420848206/ Jul 07 15:14:44 buz, there's a similar connector on the othher side that i assumed was the debug connector Jul 07 15:14:59 seems like the debug connector is on the lcd side Jul 07 15:15:16 oh, i probably just had them backwards, you can see the ribbon folding over in other pictures Jul 07 15:15:24 my point is, it's an easy connector one way or the other :) Jul 07 15:16:02 it's not a damn zebra strip Jul 07 15:16:29 gps antenna seems manageable Jul 07 15:17:11 that case sure is a waste of space Jul 07 15:22:47 the only thing i think is wasteful, is they could have used a skinnier battery and only one speaker and made the device skinnier, i suspect Jul 07 15:25:35 iirc the battery isn't really all that fat Jul 07 15:25:45 there's kinda wasted space at the top, no? Jul 07 15:25:51 plus the hole ;) Jul 07 15:25:58 then again, the size isnt that bad Jul 07 15:26:17 it's thinner than my p900 and i can comfortably carry that in my pocket Jul 07 15:27:17 * Stephmw nods Jul 07 15:27:23 I carry my p910 the same way Jul 07 15:27:27 its kinda heavy though Jul 07 15:27:53 well, all i know is the iphone is like 0.3in thinner, and the only way i can see to save that kind of space is to use a battery that is a third the thickness. Jul 07 15:28:18 they make batteries that are shaped more like the lcd than like the nokia batt Jul 07 15:29:01 well the iphone prolly uses custom components Jul 07 15:29:05 the neo is pretty off the shelf Jul 07 15:29:08 yeah, exactly Jul 07 15:29:19 i'm not saying it's not a great tradeoff, to get cheaper batteries, and replacable batteries Jul 07 15:30:15 i have a size fetish though, everything should be as thin as the plam vx Jul 07 15:30:51 if only they added a dpad and 4 buttons Jul 07 15:30:58 then it would be rather similar to an oversized snes controller Jul 07 15:31:08 :P Jul 07 15:31:14 which i still consider to be one of the saner joypads out there Jul 07 15:31:33 pluspoints for hiding the buttons and the dpad under a removeable cover Jul 07 15:32:46 I'm looking forward to seeing casemods... maybe integrats tiny keypads Jul 07 15:33:03 no whole a lot in the area of sane tiny keypads Jul 07 15:33:11 frogpads are $$$ Jul 07 15:33:32 and custom building one is probably out of question Jul 07 15:37:28 http://www.cartft.com/catalog/il/478 i wonder how thick that one is without its casing Jul 07 15:39:45 buz: I'd say 1/2 the thickness shown here, http://www.mp3car.com/vbulletin/input-devices/41136-very-mini-keyboard-solution-cheap-4.html Jul 07 15:40:36 http://www.nyko.com/nyko/products/?i=13 now THAT is neat Jul 07 15:41:45 looks a little bulky :) Jul 07 15:42:23 i wonder if you could remove the casing and somehow mod neos case to get a treo'esque thing Jul 07 15:42:58 buz - Probably yes... well, larger of course. Jul 07 15:43:07 how wide is that thing Jul 07 15:43:10 no dimensions anywhere Jul 07 15:43:28 8x5x1 Jul 07 15:43:30 cm Jul 07 15:43:45 but hey it's even rounded ;) Jul 07 15:45:12 http://mobile-review.com/pda/review/cherry-kb-en.shtml that aint so bad either Jul 07 15:45:16 needs power thoug Jul 07 15:46:42 take thin cheap digicam, remove case, add qwerty, get ultimate neo companion? Jul 07 15:47:17 hehe ;) Jul 07 15:48:12 http://www.frogpad.com/information/iFrogWearable.asp for the truly geeky Jul 07 15:48:24 the thing is huge though Jul 07 15:50:02 * Stephmw nods Jul 07 15:50:27 a treo neo would be best Jul 07 15:51:53 without the retro antenna Jul 07 15:52:15 so it would look more like a crackberry Jul 07 15:52:37 crackberries are too big to comfortably carry Jul 07 15:53:58 Hello Guys Jul 07 15:54:20 And/or girls Jul 07 15:54:55 BTW: Is it intended, that the displayed phone number hops up and down while taping on the number buttons to add more numbers (in the dialer)? Jul 07 15:55:05 Viko: Are you the only one who recognises that the female of the species use irc? Jul 07 15:55:22 there's no such thing as gender on irc Jul 07 15:55:24 usually Jul 07 15:55:36 Agreed Jul 07 15:55:37 ewanm89_laptop, I forgot I was on irc... hello guys then.. Jul 07 15:55:43 :) Jul 07 15:56:12 my gf used to use irc Jul 07 15:56:44 used to? Jul 07 15:56:57 My gf still does. Jul 07 15:57:23 Irc had a lot more girls before msn messenger, myspace and facebook, no? Jul 07 15:57:41 ewanm89_laptop: these days she doesnt even use IM anymore Jul 07 15:57:45 not entirely sure why Jul 07 15:58:36 madewokherd: sure there's gender on IRC: guys admiting they're guys, guys pretending to be gals, and guys that say they say a gal on irc... Jul 07 15:58:51 s/say/saw/ Jul 07 15:58:52 Stephmw meant: madewokherd: sure there's gender on IRC: guys admiting they're guys, guys pretending to be gals, and guys that saw they say a gal on irc... Jul 07 15:58:57 lol Jul 07 15:59:01 ok... you get the idea Jul 07 15:59:36 buz: The only girls I know, use MSN (eugh!), I only use jabber and irc. Jul 07 16:00:08 i also use icq, for historical reasons Jul 07 16:00:26 I use only Jabber and IRC, but set up gateways to deal with my technically inept friends. Jul 07 16:00:39 yahoo, jabber, msn and err... aim, that's it Jul 07 16:00:57 buz: I have an icq account, can't remember the number and password though. Jul 07 16:02:32 i once had a 6 digit number Jul 07 16:02:38 but forgot the pw Jul 07 16:02:42 now i have 7 digit ;) Jul 07 16:05:10 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Wishlist:Mesh_Networking]] [[Advertising]] [[User_talk:Leoc]] Jul 07 16:42:14 is there some way to type in the emulated openmoko? :P Jul 07 16:43:33 Basheri, click on the beige patch next to the menu at the top Jul 07 16:43:49 ok, thanks Jul 07 16:46:28 This seems to be becoming a FAQ... Jul 07 16:46:40 (I also came here to ask the same question some days ago) Jul 07 16:46:49 :P Jul 07 16:47:13 hm Jul 07 16:47:14 doch Jul 07 16:47:20 ups Jul 07 16:47:21 sorry Jul 07 16:47:21 There's no way one can guess the beige patch is supposed to be a keyboard, viewed from 15m and compressed with JPEG ultra-low-quality ;-) Jul 07 16:48:35 i just randomly clicked here and there..and it took me a day to realise that the beige patch should be clicked, instead of random clicks Jul 07 16:49:31 * CoreDump|home wonders how long it takes for someone to boot linux on the iphone Jul 07 16:49:33 hmm, i can see nothing beige Jul 07 16:51:31 Basheri: it's on the top bar, to the right of the menu thingy on the left Jul 07 16:52:05 (for some bizarre reason, I also couldn't see until I asked here and people told me it existed, and then the next time I started the emulator somehow it was there) Jul 07 16:52:59 strange, it's not there... I clicked the whole top bar threw Jul 07 16:53:18 thru Jul 07 16:54:03 Basheri, just keep restarting the thingy till you get it Jul 07 16:54:07 ok Jul 07 16:54:08 i meant the qemu Jul 07 16:54:30 yeh Jul 07 16:55:06 cesarb, happens sometimes, when you are having a bad day you have to restart many times Jul 07 16:55:37 Sup3rkiddo: it NEVER appeared for me until I asked here, and then the VERY NEXT time I started the emulator it was there, just to make me look dumb Jul 07 16:55:59 Sup3rkiddo: and every other single time I opened the emulator, even after reflashing, it was there Jul 07 16:56:01 cesarb, lol... Jul 07 16:56:47 cool, it worked now Jul 07 16:56:52 thx Jul 07 16:56:53 CoreDump|home, expect iMoko next time Jul 07 16:57:50 alright that was lame Jul 07 16:58:33 I'm expecting to run OpenMoko on the iPhone sooner or later ;) Jul 07 16:59:01 I'm expecting that OpenMoko will run on the iPhone sooner or later. Jul 07 16:59:14 hehe Jul 07 16:59:15 lol Jul 07 16:59:22 * Sup3rkiddo votes for later somehow Jul 07 16:59:23 Would be nice :) Jul 07 16:59:29 I'm not particularly expecting that I will be buying one of those abominations though Jul 07 16:59:37 what kind of hardware is in the iphone? Jul 07 17:00:01 arm Jul 07 17:00:21 and one new chip from infion Jul 07 17:00:32 there was a site who looked which hw is in there Jul 07 17:00:48 Is there any smartphone which isn't arm nowadays? Jul 07 17:00:50 and mesaured up how much profit apple made with hw Jul 07 17:00:59 mesuared Jul 07 17:02:06 but will openmoko take advantage of multi-touch? Jul 07 17:02:24 http://www.engadget.com/2007/07/01/iphone-processor-found-620mhz-arm/ Jul 07 17:02:27 depend on the patents I guess Jul 07 17:04:53 woglinde: there it's also talking about the s3c6400 , I will search some more Jul 07 17:06:27 damn Jul 07 17:06:54 i was kinda hoping that it'd have some lame processor Jul 07 17:19:50 (script) planet: Stefan Schmidt: Conferences ahead. Going to RMLL and GUADEC. http://www.datenfreihafen.org/~stefan/weblog/archives/2007/07/#e2007-07-07T19_02_08.txt Jul 07 18:04:55 aloril is a bot right? which software is it using does anyone know? Jul 07 18:05:40 aloril is both: a human (well, or some _very_ good AI druid) and some scriptlets running in his client. Jul 07 18:05:50 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[User:Tetraden]] [[User_talk:Leoc]] Jul 07 18:05:52 it's probably an MIRC or Xchat script Jul 07 18:06:22 I'm trying to find a bot that would output new posts from an rss feed Jul 07 18:06:56 most "bots" in existence ca probably do that Jul 07 18:07:18 CoreDump|home - (bad memory) Are you behind cdbot2? You know, that it cuts the subject of bugs it posts? Jul 07 18:07:37 Elrond: I thought I fixed that Jul 07 18:07:45 got a timestamp? Jul 07 18:08:11 or a sample bug Jul 07 18:08:25 CoreDump|home - 5 hours, 24 mins ago. Jul 07 18:08:36 (15:44 MEST) Jul 07 18:08:44 well,m Jul 07 18:08:54 I kinda lost my backlog =) Jul 07 18:09:09 15:44 * * OM Bug 631 has been created by Jul 07 18:09:09 15:44 * * gfault when dbus not running Jul 07 18:09:16 15:44 * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=631 Jul 07 18:09:37 ah thanks Jul 07 18:09:51 that is a regexp problem w/ the [] in the subject Jul 07 18:10:08 Ahh. Jul 07 18:10:09 I'll look into it, thanks Jul 07 18:10:37 bbiab Jul 07 18:10:45 CoreDump|home - later :-) Jul 07 18:28:34 counter Jul 07 18:28:34 (last update 2007-07-06T13:15) http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter 60% for P1 in a day 17:31:21 (1.730±1.0 days) (1696;246) Jul 07 18:45:09 they say that the phone will have motion sensors... but without devs having it how can you program for it? Jul 07 18:46:14 I have some ideas. for example... you could have it detect being placed upside-down in the pocket to auto-hangup Jul 07 18:46:40 encompass - "devs"? What do you mean? Jul 07 18:46:47 they should have a wiki to let people add there ideas to, or perhaps a site, like launchpad to post blueprint to. Jul 07 18:46:56 Elrond: those that program for the device. Jul 07 18:47:07 encompass - And s/motion sensors/accelarometers/ Jul 07 18:47:20 encompass - There are people programming for it. Jul 07 18:47:21 well yeah, those :P Jul 07 18:47:28 cool Jul 07 18:47:48 Even you can program for it, if you want ti. Jul 07 18:47:50 to. Jul 07 18:47:57 not sure how durable they will be but we could have hang up or pick up by give it a little shake that it can remember Jul 07 18:48:37 I have lots of ideas. I hear there are images or something I can use? (I am a python programmer) Jul 07 18:49:26 pick up is possible. Jul 07 18:49:38 For example, the phone pretty much can sense 'down. Jul 07 18:49:52 Now, consider the movement from 'in hand with phone at side' Jul 07 18:49:56 just abstract the acceleration with something like get_orientation() or bool isupsidedown() Jul 07 18:49:58 I noticed on the site, that he didn't mention the GPS feature in the phone. Has it been taken out? Jul 07 18:50:02 to phone next to ear Jul 07 18:50:12 no, it's just not new in the new version Jul 07 18:50:27 the 'new' features are a diff of the old and new phone Jul 07 18:50:50 the new phone also doesn't have a display if you read it your way :) Jul 07 18:51:15 * encompass realizes that :P Jul 07 18:51:31 Who needs a display anyway? ;o) Jul 07 18:51:59 * Elrond remembers the phone with a real dial. :-) Jul 07 18:52:00 I have another idea... you couldhave the unit ring louder when there is alot of movement... (I am jogging or on my bike) Jul 07 18:52:39 no you shake it... 1 shake... pause 2 shakes... pause... etc Jul 07 18:53:23 echo Jul 07 18:53:24 or we coudl flip it in the are for speed dial :D (Actually that would be cool... jsut give it a flip to call the wife!) Jul 07 18:54:05 you guys really need to get a wiki for this! I would love to post ideas about it. Jul 07 18:54:16 like wiki.openmoko.org? Jul 07 18:54:36 (I am one of those nokia dudes from finland, we finns know our phones!) Jul 07 18:54:46 http://youtube.com/watch?v=aXdtUISSHuo - on movement. Jul 07 18:54:47 woop Jul 07 18:54:51 for dialing. Jul 07 18:54:56 * encompass runs to both links! Jul 07 18:55:02 encompass wiki.openmoko.org Jul 07 18:55:16 hehe. Jul 07 18:55:21 In practice. Jul 07 18:55:35 You don't want to move it around too much - as that leads to accidental throws. Jul 07 18:55:50 * Viko wonders what encompass will you the "fap" - move for on the Neo. Jul 07 18:56:07 Yellow pages - in some ares. Jul 07 18:56:28 s/you/use Jul 07 18:56:29 SpeedEvil: hehe that's like... an international number Jul 07 18:56:45 :) Jul 07 18:57:20 encompass: Oooo, so you must be on your month-long holiday :) Jul 07 18:57:33 Stephmw: you got it Jul 07 18:57:40 :D Jul 07 18:59:42 hi! anyone can tell me the model name of the device that was just made available? Jul 07 18:59:42 flatline5: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) Jul 07 18:59:57 GTA01_v4 Jul 07 19:00:09 ok thanks Jul 07 19:00:16 Otherwise known as the developer version of the Neo1973 Jul 07 19:00:29 Which the retail version of will be the GTA02 Jul 07 19:00:38 ok Jul 07 19:00:43 what, was made available? Jul 07 19:00:52 Well, will be made available on the 9th Jul 07 19:00:54 Or so Jul 07 19:01:02 that's what I thought Jul 07 19:01:14 also, a friend of mine tells me i would have to "unlock" that phone, but i don't think so, what's true? Jul 07 19:01:22 what phone? Jul 07 19:01:30 The Neo is supplied SIM-free Jul 07 19:01:35 you put your GSM SIM into it. Jul 07 19:01:38 And it just works. Jul 07 19:01:47 SpeedEvil, free! Jul 07 19:01:49 lol Jul 07 19:01:57 ok, thanks Jul 07 19:02:29 ok, the most imporant question, does it sells in canada? 8) Jul 07 19:02:40 Sells direct anywhere. Jul 07 19:02:47 perfect Jul 07 19:03:14 i'm not paying any bills this month! lol ;) Jul 07 19:03:51 * Aria laughs. Jul 07 19:03:57 Me either. Jul 07 19:05:29 So eventually will we have like... model GTA Vice City right? (Sorry I am sure the dumb joke has come up but I had to say it:P) Jul 07 19:10:11 * ScaredyCat slaps encompass Jul 07 19:11:59 very cool phone guys... I am so pumped to be a part of it! Jul 07 19:12:26 * encompass , shocked, rubs his check. Jul 07 19:12:27 well, just be aware it's not ready for joe average, yet Jul 07 19:13:08 can you recorde a sim and reuse it on this phone? Jul 07 19:13:17 ? Jul 07 19:13:17 Umm - no. Jul 07 19:13:20 wtf Jul 07 19:13:27 SIM is Subscriber Identity Module Jul 07 19:13:38 * ScaredyCat stabs encompass with a fishing pole Jul 07 19:13:52 it's a little bit of plastic your GSM provider gives you to identify you to the network Jul 07 19:13:57 you can't clone them. Jul 07 19:14:03 SpeedEvil: I ask because MANY people here in finland would go nuts for it... they have to care around 2 phones all the time one for work and one for home Jul 07 19:14:18 SpeedEvil: I know :P Jul 07 19:14:21 No, you can't do trivially multiple SIMs. Jul 07 19:14:40 wtf encompass Jul 07 19:14:47 SpeedEvil: I don't think there is a model out there of any brnad that does that now is there. Jul 07 19:14:59 Basheri: seriously... finns love there phones Jul 07 19:15:11 SpeedEvil - Well, one could clone them, just the amount of work/money needed is in no relation to the gain. ;-) Jul 07 19:15:26 encompass: I suggest you /whois me Jul 07 19:15:31 Elrond: is it possible practically to clone them? Jul 07 19:15:42 Elrond: walk into a university and find the EE department Jul 07 19:15:47 I'll guess Jul 07 19:15:56 koen|inverness - exactly. :-) Jul 07 19:16:30 It's not possible to clone all electronics - there can be effective protections. Jul 07 19:16:31 Well, the EE department will still be challenged, but IMHO it's doable. Jul 07 19:16:47 Do you base this on supposition, or knowing that it's been done? Jul 07 19:17:00 there are some dual sim capable phones.... Jul 07 19:17:00 More the first. Jul 07 19:17:02 wasn't there a model of phone that took two at once? Jul 07 19:17:03 use those Jul 07 19:17:15 bingo Jul 07 19:17:47 SpeedEvil - protecting electronics is quite tricky. You can proetect against the standard attack vectors. Jul 07 19:17:57 Elrond: and the non-standard ones. Jul 07 19:18:18 http://www.fonefunshop.co.uk/dualsim/dualsimcovers.htm Jul 07 19:18:25 Elrond: it's possible to protect against people willing to open up your device and use electron microscopes and stuff on it. Jul 07 19:18:53 ScaredyCat: thanks Jul 07 19:19:29 the dual ghost thingy Jul 07 19:20:15 SpeedEvil - I know. But are standard SIMs protexted like this? Jul 07 19:20:57 It's not especially hard to protect the few dozen bits you need to protect - given that the devices are sold in the tens of millions. Jul 07 19:21:26 Doing it for real takes some money. Jul 07 19:21:29 You do stuff like burying the memory cells in question under an extra layer of metallisation, ... Jul 07 19:21:37 Not really - if you're making ten million. Jul 07 19:21:42 * ScaredyCat is watching some poor america singer on that live earth show... Jul 07 19:21:51 the statium is totally empty Jul 07 19:21:52 Katie Melua? Jul 07 19:22:06 think so Jul 07 19:22:12 tunstal Jul 07 19:22:13 This concert has made me reconsider my view of global warming. Jul 07 19:22:19 I think it's now a good thing. Jul 07 19:22:26 SpeedEvil - Well, people are working on advanced non-invasive analytics for this sort of stuff. :-) Jul 07 19:22:32 ... how do they think their amps are powered? Jul 07 19:22:39 Biofuel. Jul 07 19:23:35 well - if you go to the nyc concert, you'll get a good seat... Jul 07 19:23:42 it's cruel I know... Jul 07 19:26:44 anyhoo... Jul 07 19:26:57 counter Jul 07 19:26:57 (last update 2007-07-06T13:15) http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter 60% for P1 in a day 16:32:58 (1.690±1.0 days) (1697;246) Jul 07 19:27:05 tick tick tick tick tick tick Jul 07 19:27:26 on target? Jul 07 19:29:20 openmoko.com looks the same. Jul 07 19:29:52 Monday... Jul 07 19:30:17 We shall see.... Jul 07 19:30:20 :) Jul 07 19:30:41 SpeedEvil - Oh, and add "time" to the needed stuff. ;-) Jul 07 19:31:01 i wonder how the neo will fare going through customs into the USA Jul 07 19:31:26 is a crate being shipped to america and then split up, or is it uh "drop shipped"? Jul 07 19:31:30 direct from taiwan or whereever Jul 07 19:31:41 galexande: i havent heard either way Jul 07 19:31:57 the phones are faxed Jul 07 19:32:07 that'll speed things up Jul 07 19:32:22 galexande - rumours tend to make us believe, that it's "one by one, direct from .tw". But I repeat: There is NO INFO yet. Jul 07 19:33:01 forget the info i just want my phone :) Jul 07 19:33:10 * ScaredyCat suggests they are all shipped to me Jul 07 19:33:22 Elrond: my rumour-mill said they'd have at least one shipping source within the EU :D Jul 07 19:33:31 :o Jul 07 19:33:33 * Stephmw whips his hamsters in the rumour treadmill Jul 07 19:34:04 yes there has been talk about an EU-shipper, not sure at this point if that'll be there on P1... Jul 07 19:34:16 yeah, it might be a little tight Jul 07 19:34:34 Stephmw - I also heard that rumour a while back. ;-) Jul 07 19:34:39 oooeerr misssus Jul 07 19:34:51 it's on the wiki Jul 07 19:35:05 no Jul 07 19:35:12 i mean it's in the email Jul 07 19:35:18 on the wiki Jul 07 19:35:23 Huh? Jul 07 19:36:48 somone copied an announce email Jul 07 19:36:52 to the wiki.. Jul 07 19:36:56 I know I read it Jul 07 19:37:14 so we don't have any fic employees here to shine on our parade? Jul 07 19:37:19 Err Jul 07 19:37:34 IIRC mickey said recently on here that tehy will all direct ship Jul 07 19:38:04 For P1 Jul 07 19:38:19 SpeedEvil - That's my rumour source. And mickey clearly added, that he tried to keep out of the e-commerce issues, so he doesn't know anything for sure. Jul 07 19:38:46 that was later on paypal questions Jul 07 19:39:04 omg ! no... Jul 07 19:39:07 not paypal Jul 07 19:39:08 please Jul 07 19:39:16 for the love of chicken... Jul 07 19:39:18 which is quite a lot deeper into it than just if they will direct ship or not Jul 07 19:39:19 not paypal Jul 07 19:39:25 Well, I've read it as applying to all. Jul 07 19:39:30 Paypal would be nice as an option Jul 07 19:39:46 option yes, only method , no Jul 07 19:39:50 ScaredyCat - I guess, they will accept a bunch of credit cards. Jul 07 19:40:01 preferably yours ;) Jul 07 19:40:01 i don't care if i have to mail an international money order man Jul 07 19:40:05 i just want the phone :) Jul 07 19:40:12 ScaredyCat we know about paypal and its inseriousness ;) be asshured Jul 07 19:40:33 roh, AM or PM :) Jul 07 19:40:40 paypal just isn't good for the seller at all Jul 07 19:40:42 ?? Jul 07 19:40:48 SpeedEvil with paypal fic would propably need to fight a legal court to get out money. Jul 07 19:40:58 galexande ? Jul 07 19:40:58 It's not that bad. Jul 07 19:41:03 It _usually_ works Jul 07 19:41:04 on the 9th Jul 07 19:41:06 SpeedEvil it is. Jul 07 19:41:09 when do i start stomping on refresh Jul 07 19:41:16 galexande i have no clue myself. Jul 07 19:41:21 SpeedEvil, that's cos generally people are good... Jul 07 19:41:23 :) Jul 07 19:41:35 galexande and if i had, am or pm still says nothing without a timezone Jul 07 19:41:35 but you can reverse the transaction *after* getting the goods Jul 07 19:41:40 When it doesn't, there are problems getting them to admit errors. Jul 07 19:41:50 roh, i know you know that so i hoped you would throw that in :) Jul 07 19:42:20 do it like apple... 9am.. in each country Jul 07 19:42:23 muwahahhahaah Jul 07 19:42:26 ScaredyCat: The fundamental problem is that they don't hold the item. They can't discriminate between 'he sent me a brick' and 'I sent him a laptop, he returned a brick' Jul 07 19:42:28 * ScaredyCat drives east Jul 07 19:42:30 hmmm, are gta01 available for purchase now? Jul 07 19:42:36 no Jul 07 19:42:38 flatline5, Jul 07 19:42:39 flatline5: no Jul 07 19:42:40 ahhh Jul 07 19:42:50 we have to wait for gta02, right? Jul 07 19:43:12 flatline5: gat01/P1 goes on sale monday Jul 07 19:43:19 s/gat/gta/ Jul 07 19:43:20 don-o meant: flatline5: gta01/P1 goes on sale monday Jul 07 19:43:20 if we're lucky, monday for a dev version... october for comsumer Jul 07 19:43:38 ok Jul 07 19:43:43 s/comsumer/consumer/ Jul 07 19:43:44 ScaredyCat meant: if we're lucky, monday for a dev version... october for consumer Jul 07 19:43:54 * ScaredyCat hugs apic Jul 07 19:43:56 errm Jul 07 19:44:01 * ScaredyCat hugs apt_ Jul 07 19:44:04 * don-o laughs Jul 07 19:44:10 i'll have my bank increase my credit card limit on monday then... ;) Jul 07 19:44:37 i imagine the cost is $300 "plus shipping" Jul 07 19:44:53 plus txes Jul 07 19:45:04 s/txes/taxes/ Jul 07 19:45:05 ScaredyCat meant: plus taxes Jul 07 19:45:07 hmmm, us Jul 07 19:45:10 plus customs/import fee Jul 07 19:45:21 don-o, think a gran is enough? Jul 07 19:45:25 (now im just making this stuff up) Jul 07 19:45:26 ScaredyCat: less taxes if it ships within .eu... for us anyway Jul 07 19:45:33 plus someotherwaythegovernmentstealsourmoney Jul 07 19:45:54 Stephmw, yes, but that's 'if' Jul 07 19:46:04 ScaredyCat: it's a BIG if, but it's nice to hope Jul 07 19:46:47 tis true Jul 07 19:51:51 oh one last question (so i'm ready on monday), where do we buy? on fic.com.tw? Jul 07 19:52:01 evening ;) Jul 07 19:52:07 openmoko.com Jul 07 19:52:07 openmoko,com Jul 07 19:52:35 ok, i don't see anywhere that looks like a sales page, i guess that will just show up on monday? Jul 07 19:54:13 flatline5, http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/announce/2007-June/000013.html Jul 07 19:54:41 errata: only 1x 512MB microSD with neo base Jul 07 19:57:44 i officially can't wait Jul 07 20:05:10 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Neo1973_Hardware/de]] [[Testimonials]] [[Buying_Interest_List]] [[Talk:IPhone]] [[IPhone]] Jul 07 20:17:15 where we talking about multisim support... this is an option... Jul 07 20:17:22 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Bluetooth_powered_Multi-SIM_support Jul 07 20:18:15 encompass will not happen.. dunno who put that there Jul 07 20:18:49 encompass the sim is directly wired to the gsm part. access is only via the at-interpreter Jul 07 20:19:32 besides that its horribly insecure and i can just hope nobody is so stupid to put his sim in a phone with that feature enabled. Jul 07 20:21:29 roh: How is it anymore insecure than a bluetooth headset? Jul 07 20:22:25 that page reminds me of my tongue-in-cheek musics of utms for neo Jul 07 20:22:26 SpeedEvil not anymore Jul 07 20:22:36 SpeedEvil but thats also massively insecure Jul 07 20:22:41 *duck* How can anything be more insecure than gsm? ;o) Jul 07 20:23:04 nmt? Jul 07 20:23:08 hell, you can stick your own encryption on top of bt for that if you want Jul 07 20:23:12 /auth Jul 07 20:23:49 SpeedEvil besides that.. gsm itself is also only as secure as the key your carrier generates *couch* and the billing is proably done also by the same israeli company which nearly every carrier uses.... Jul 07 20:23:53 would require good access to the slave platform as well to be workable, though Jul 07 20:24:11 roh: In practice, it makes it no less secure than normally using a BT headset. Jul 07 20:24:32 roh: If I'm doing stuff that requires better security than that, I'm going encrypted Jul 07 20:24:47 SpeedEvil your bt headset has no access to your whole phonebook and all your sms. and thats good that way Jul 07 20:25:22 "neo, read sms to me" ;o) Jul 07 20:26:31 hehe Jul 07 20:27:10 It would be nice if long-term, it could be used without looking at the display Jul 07 20:27:15 Or rather: "Neo, read private sms to the attacker, who has taken over the bt headset communication." ;o) Jul 07 20:27:28 is there a way for me to run this phone in qemu or a virtual machine? I would like to develop for it Jul 07 20:27:34 yes Jul 07 20:27:38 faq? Jul 07 20:27:38 See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ Jul 07 20:27:44 encompass - Search the wiki for "qemu" Jul 07 20:27:47 oops Jul 07 20:27:48 hehe Jul 07 20:27:56 ... and read the faq. ;-) Jul 07 20:29:31 which emulater to you recommend me using? Jul 07 20:29:54 encompass there is only one Jul 07 20:29:57 qemu Jul 07 20:30:23 not xoo? Jul 07 20:31:36 xoo is only xserver think Jul 07 20:32:26 ok Jul 07 20:32:32 well everyone have a good night Jul 07 20:32:36 I am bushed! Jul 07 20:40:04 "I ambushed!" ... Jul 07 20:52:43 night Jul 07 20:57:32 Hi :-) Jul 07 20:57:41 can anyone help me with a compiler-related problem? Jul 07 20:57:41 Commands: counter (see estimated time until P1), counter_msg (set message for counter), faq (gives this link: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ ) Jul 07 20:57:44 please? Jul 07 20:58:44 what is the preferred version of glibc-intermediate these days? My OE tree openmoko distro file has 2.4, but when I build I get 2.4 is not available, so it tries to build 2.6 and fails. Jul 07 20:59:41 after a svn checkout (suceeded), I did a ./configure --target-list=arm-softmmu Jul 07 21:01:08 moin Ophelia Jul 07 21:01:10 ;-) Jul 07 21:01:27 LOL Jul 07 21:02:05 moin ;-) Jul 07 21:03:00 hab' eben ne schwŠche fŸr Shakespeare ;-)) Jul 07 21:17:49 Hi :-) Jul 07 21:22:55 Hello :-) Jul 07 21:23:15 can someone please help me with a compiler-related problem? Jul 07 21:24:58 Perhaps, if you ask the question Jul 07 21:26:52 ok Jul 07 21:27:44 after I did a svn checkout, I did a 01,00./configure --target-list=arm-softmmu Jul 07 21:28:18 which resulted in two errors at the end Jul 07 21:28:18 make[1]: *** [gnokiigsm/virtmodem.o] Error 1 Jul 07 21:28:18 make: *** [subdir-arm-softmmu] Error 2 Jul 07 21:28:38 sorry, the 'make' command resulted in these errors Jul 07 21:29:15 can anyone make sense of that? Jul 07 21:29:37 even though I will probably not be able to help you, I know that a few more lines before the lines you pasted will be needed Jul 07 21:30:01 ok Jul 07 21:31:56 how much more lines? Jul 07 21:31:56 In file included from /Users/hagenbecker108/Desktop/Openmoko/qemu-neo1973/gnokiigsm/virtmodem.c:63: Jul 07 21:31:56 make[1]: *** [gnokiigsm/virtmodem.o] Error 1 Jul 07 21:31:56 make: *** [subdir-arm-softmmu] Error 2 Jul 07 21:31:56 In file included from /Users/hagenbecker108/Desktop/Openmoko/qemu-neo1973/gnokiigsm/virtmodem.c:63: Jul 07 21:31:58 make[1]: *** [gnokiigsm/virtmodem.o] Error 1 Jul 07 21:32:00 make: *** [subdir-arm-softmmu] Error 2 Jul 07 21:32:10 Use a pastebin Jul 07 21:32:15 Is that the top of the error? Jul 07 21:32:25 top? Jul 07 21:32:40 @hads: which pastebin? Jul 07 21:32:49 Whichever pastebin Jul 07 21:33:14 ok Jul 07 21:33:16 just a sec please Jul 07 21:38:44 no, the other pastebin.. :P Jul 07 21:39:12 lol Jul 07 21:40:02 need half a dozen lines, previous to In file included from /Users/hagenbecker108/Desktop/Openmoko/qemu-neo1973/gnokiigsm/virtmodem.c:63: Jul 07 21:43:27 ok, I'm uploading to a pastebin Jul 07 21:47:33 * ScaredyCat thinks Ophelia_ must be typing them in manually Jul 07 21:48:06 no, there appears to be a problem with my connection... Jul 07 21:48:52 here it is :http://pastebin.ca/607754 Jul 07 21:49:31 :http://pastebin.ca/607754 Jul 07 21:49:34 http://pastebin.ca/607754 Jul 07 21:50:21 why are you posting the link again? Jul 07 21:51:05 because you put a : right in front of it... Jul 07 21:51:15 xchat doesn;t see it as a url Jul 07 21:51:36 /Users/hagenbecker108/Desktop/Openmoko/qemu-neo1973/gnokiigsm/device.h:49: error: parse error before "buf" Jul 07 21:52:13 aha Jul 07 21:52:13 ok Jul 07 21:52:30 typo? Jul 07 21:52:45 no, that's the exact output Jul 07 21:53:09 no, I mean did you make a typo in the .h file. .. Jul 07 21:53:30 I didn't touch those files Jul 07 21:53:37 all I did was a svn co Jul 07 21:54:11 and a ./configure with the parameters given above Jul 07 21:54:11 and then a make Jul 07 21:54:11 nothing more Jul 07 21:55:00 k, but bear in mind if it's trunk it's current development, that might get broken ... Jul 07 21:55:31 hmm Jul 07 21:55:53 what do you suggest me to do in this case? Jul 07 21:56:03 what revision was it?? Jul 07 21:57:38 that was the command I issued: Jul 07 21:57:38 svn co https://svn.openmoko.org/trunk/src/host/qemu-neo1973 Jul 07 21:58:34 you could try a previous one...what does you line 49 say Jul 07 21:58:42 your Jul 07 21:59:58 that's a good question :-) Jul 07 21:59:58 wait a moment, please Jul 07 22:01:34 size_t device_read(__ptr_t buf, size_t nbytes, struct gn_statemachine *state); Jul 07 22:01:34 size_t device_write(const __ptr_t buf, size_t n, struct gn_statemachine *state); Jul 07 22:04:48 does this help? Jul 07 22:05:10 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Community_Events]] [[Alternate_Neo1973_case_designs]] [[User:Tetraden]] Jul 07 22:08:02 not really.. :/ Jul 07 22:08:31 not even looked at that code as yet... Jul 07 22:08:38 hm.. qemu builds fine here with trunk... Jul 07 22:09:19 hmm, I'm building on a Mac (PPC) Jul 07 22:09:37 uuuuh.. dunno if anybody tried that Jul 07 22:09:50 maybe I need some special packages? Jul 07 22:09:52 hm. pastebin.ca is fscking slow again Jul 07 22:10:19 rafb.net/paste Jul 07 22:10:30 Ophelia_ no different than on i386... the question is if it builds clean at all or if its working if it builds Jul 07 22:11:16 building on a mac you mean? Jul 07 22:11:20 yep. Jul 07 22:12:27 but, if it builds fine with you with trunk, then the question is why doesn't it build here Jul 07 22:14:14 The google-spamming on the ML is annoying... Jul 07 22:17:22 SpeedEvil, so with the gps information.. i could write a gateway for google 411... right? Jul 07 22:17:50 SpeedEvil ? Jul 07 22:18:02 aka.. we can have an app that uses google 411... and you can just browse google maps (in context of location) and then issue a call to the "closes cafe" for example Jul 07 22:19:08 it's revision 2371 BTW Jul 07 22:19:08 anyone got an idea what I could do now? Jul 07 22:19:10 anyone got an idea what I could do? Jul 07 22:20:23 roh: Google seems to be resending messages to the mailiong list. Jul 07 22:20:54 closest Jul 07 22:20:54 It's got the same originating timestamp, but is being resent at intervals by a google system to teh ML. Jul 07 22:21:12 daMaestro: yes, you can do that sort of thing. Jul 07 22:21:31 daMaestro: there is an API for that sort of thing from google. You will of course need GPS. Jul 07 22:22:04 yeah, i've read the gapi Jul 07 22:22:11 Ophelia_ eh.. youre not trying trunk? Jul 07 22:22:45 it really, really would be great to be riding my bike.. pull out my neo tap a single time and see all the cafe's that are close.. tap again and call them Jul 07 22:22:55 Indeed. Jul 07 22:23:09 It's not even that hard to write. Jul 07 22:23:27 no, not at all; but to make the UI moko friendly ;-) Jul 07 22:23:32 aka.. finger based Jul 07 22:23:36 yes, this was trunk, roh Jul 07 22:23:57 i need to figure out what kind of hooks i can use in gtk with the google maps api Jul 07 22:24:04 Yeah - I'm thinking of something basically like google-maps interface. Jul 07 22:24:43 you have a pane showing the map, which scrolls when you touch near the edge. Jul 07 22:25:26 cool. then I really have no reason to buy an iPhone ;-) Jul 07 22:25:42 and then another pane - which normally shows only one of the points information, but then expands out to cover the screen if you touch it, to select a new point Jul 07 22:26:49 SpeedEvil, i plan on being able to do most of this "offline" Jul 07 22:27:06 That's the annoying part about the google API. Jul 07 22:27:09 SpeedEvil, aka.. use most data local; only request listing data from the api Jul 07 22:27:21 You can't and stay within the terms and conditions of the API. Jul 07 22:27:27 You can't generally cache anything Jul 07 22:27:35 what about KML? what about google gears? Jul 07 22:27:51 http://code.google.com/apis/kml/documentation/ http://code.google.com/apis/gears/ Jul 07 22:27:54 You can probably cache user-generated content. Jul 07 22:28:04 but not stuff that comes from actual mapping vendors. Jul 07 22:28:11 Google has a license to show maps to users. Jul 07 22:28:27 The license to allow users to download and keep maps is enormously more expensive. Jul 07 22:29:02 Ophelia_ ok.. hm.. your dump looks like the problem is somewhere in here: "size_t device_read(__ptr_t" Jul 07 22:29:30 i suspect the definition of __ptr_t or size_t to be bogus somehow Jul 07 22:29:38 which distro are you using? Jul 07 22:30:08 distro? Jul 07 22:30:19 I'm building on a Mac Jul 07 22:30:40 uuuuh.. now i get it.. Jul 07 22:30:48 therefore, MacOS X 10.4.7 Jul 07 22:31:02 eh.. yeah... i think that has not been tried before... Jul 07 22:31:10 propably will need some patching Jul 07 22:31:23 nice Jul 07 22:31:33 try a #define __ptr_t void * Jul 07 22:32:10 where? Jul 07 22:32:10 in line 49? Jul 07 22:32:13 SpeedEvil, well... i guess that means it would be best to assume the device is network enabled Jul 07 22:32:21 just put it into device.h somewhere at the start Jul 07 22:32:35 SpeedEvil, which sucks.. because i am most likely going with a $0.01/KB plan for the phase 1 device Jul 07 22:32:43 daMaestro: yeah - it's not that bad - if you've got a sane dataplan. Especially as you can talk through a compressing host possible. Jul 07 22:33:03 e.g. line 33 Jul 07 22:33:10 SpeedEvil, do you have any recommendations for a data plan? Jul 07 22:33:28 daMaestro: :/ Locally, it looks like I have to pay $50/mo to get a contract with 1G/mo data. Alternatively, I can buy days at $2 per on pay as you go. I'm in the UK though Jul 07 22:33:55 daMaestro: I'm going to be going with pay as you go. Jul 07 22:34:06 SpeedEvil, vodafone ? Jul 07 22:34:07 yeah.. here in the US.. it's ~$30/m for 20MB of data Jul 07 22:34:16 looked at t-mobile? Jul 07 22:34:18 ScaredyCat: T-mobile Jul 07 22:34:22 :) Jul 07 22:34:23 yeah, i've looked Jul 07 22:34:45 i might see if i can do prepay minutes with an unlimited data plan Jul 07 22:34:45 I thought t-mobile did 10gb/mo for 50 Jul 07 22:35:03 daMaestro: I'm pretty sure there are ways around the actual _WAP_ limitations of the $6 plan Jul 07 22:35:04 yeah, but for $50.. you can get an unlimited plan Jul 07 22:35:09 web n walk or something/ Jul 07 22:35:10 ? Jul 07 22:35:10 ScaredyCat: I'm talking about "WebnWalk' - in the UK Jul 07 22:35:19 summatusmentis, yeah... i've wondered Jul 07 22:35:22 ScaredyCat: i'm pretty sure that I can add unlimited data to my current tmobile plan for $40/mo Jul 07 22:35:26 summatusmentis, thus.. i am going 100% prepay Jul 07 22:35:26 It's 7.50 extra, with any contract, and there is a fair use limit of 1G/mo Jul 07 22:35:37 line 33 is empty Jul 07 22:35:47 daMaestro: prepay is the same sort of thing then? Jul 07 22:36:53 well i was going to do prepay minutes... and then just figure out what i am going to do for data access at a later time Jul 07 22:36:55 well, I think I will try that tomorrow. Need to go to bed now. Jul 07 22:36:55 Good Night @ all Jul 07 22:37:03 daMaestro: had any time to look at the MokoMakefile yet? Jul 07 22:37:03 ya.. i looked at tmobile, (uk) and iirc they have 3 levels, 1gb/3gb/10gb Jul 07 22:37:06 i can just use the $0.01/KB plan for a while Jul 07 22:37:12 AntonTakk, for what reason? Jul 07 22:37:32 daMaestro: is the $0.01/KB through their wap thinger? Jul 07 22:37:34 trying to build apps for open moko Jul 07 22:37:43 summatusmentis, i'm not sure what you get access to with it Jul 07 22:37:52 summatusmentis, i just want IP transit.. those bastards Jul 07 22:38:13 ScaredyCat: probably. Jul 07 22:38:28 well, for instace, w/ my current carrier, I pay $10/mo for unlimited easyedge(wap) access. But I put opera mini, and get full on web Jul 07 22:39:04 Ophelia_ yeah.. put #define __ptr_t void * in line 33 and try again Jul 07 22:39:49 Ophelia_ n8 Jul 07 22:40:05 it's kinda lame.. GSM ~= dial up ... we should pay dial up rates.. *aka* $10/month for ip transit Jul 07 22:40:25 us market is crazy Jul 07 22:40:32 very much so. Jul 07 22:41:24 GSM != dialup Jul 07 22:41:35 roh: shouldn't that be a typedef? Jul 07 22:41:45 with dialup, you arn't using a slice of the radio airwaves. Jul 07 22:41:51 SpeedEvil, yea yeah Jul 07 22:41:52 lol Jul 07 22:42:04 With GSM, you are. Tehre is a finite, and fairly small bandwidth/area for GSM Jul 07 22:42:31 SpeedEvil, it's only finite between you and the tower Jul 07 22:42:36 after that.. it's open access Jul 07 22:42:41 Bandwidth/area Jul 07 22:42:45 t1 or better Jul 07 22:43:12 You share it with everyone in the possibly up to 15Km diameter range of the basestation. Jul 07 22:43:50 SpeedEvil, what is the theoretical bitrate a single tower could peak? Jul 07 22:43:53 t-mobile is better, but it really pisses me off when they say unlimited and then apply a fair use policy which limits you Jul 07 22:43:56 * daMaestro is just curious Jul 07 22:44:23 daMaestro: It's on the order of a few tens of megabits/second IIRC Jul 07 22:44:27 i'm not familiar with the band allocations of GSM/GPRS Jul 07 22:44:33 ok Jul 07 22:47:57 this is why i am getting a phase 1 device... try out the carriers and write all the applications i want to use on the phase2 device Jul 07 22:47:59 :-D Jul 07 22:48:13 daMaestro: I'll be waiting to hear which ones are best :-) Jul 07 22:48:30 well... here i have a whole 2 to chose from ;-) Jul 07 22:49:01 i might manage to track down a random rebrand that has a nice data plan... but i really, really doubt it Jul 07 22:50:39 daMaestro: that's true Jul 07 22:50:47 sprint is cdma right? Jul 07 22:51:01 pcs Jul 07 22:51:13 verizon is cdma Jul 07 22:51:47 pcs is another option? Jul 07 22:51:48 odd Jul 07 22:52:30 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GSM says a hundred or so channels at 270 kbits per, or 30 megabits/second or so. Jul 07 22:52:44 Or 3 megabytes/second. Jul 07 22:52:54 Per site Jul 07 22:52:58 ahh pcs is just the band Jul 07 22:53:00 Per tower rather Jul 07 22:53:32 1900Mhz.. which can be cdma, gsm and d-amps Jul 07 22:54:14 Vegar dunno.. i just replicated what i found in my headers and what obviously is not defined the same way on osx Jul 07 22:54:20 summatusmentis, sprint is cdma Jul 07 22:54:23 ok Jul 07 22:54:41 daMaestro: ok, that's what I thought... Jul 07 22:55:02 summatusmentis, it started as GSM.. then sold that to what has become tbmobile and went with cdma Jul 07 22:55:17 I see, I was probably too young to remember that Jul 07 23:00:25 yeah.. i could read for hours about all the carrier technology.. gah Jul 07 23:00:25 lol Jul 07 23:02:08 daMaestro: lol Jul 07 23:02:37 i, for example, didn't know that gsm was a tdma technology Jul 07 23:02:46 i don't know what i expected.. but yeah Jul 07 23:03:47 gsm is all the love from europe Jul 07 23:03:48 hehe Jul 07 23:04:01 ahem Jul 07 23:04:18 is anyone else getting lots of duplicated mails on the community list? Jul 07 23:04:21 i should start learning for my mobil communication course Jul 07 23:04:51 CoreDump|home, yeah.. SpeedEvil was just talking about some gmail issue Jul 07 23:05:58 daMaestro: I see, thanks Jul 07 23:07:28 which gmail issue? Jul 07 23:08:32 roh, the one you were talking about with him Jul 07 23:08:45 (assumed; him)... sorry if i'm wrong Jul 07 23:08:47 roh: Google seems to be resending messages to the mailiong list. Jul 07 23:08:47 closest Jul 07 23:08:47 It's got the same originating timestamp, but is being resent at intervals by a google system to teh ML. Jul 07 23:10:34 I've seen issues like that with gmail addresses on at least one other list. Jul 07 23:11:01 daMaestro yeah.. i just do not see them Jul 07 23:11:07 could it be a gmail-internal issue? Jul 07 23:12:03 It is. Jul 07 23:12:22 it isn't Jul 07 23:12:22 The originating timestamp - which says transferred over http - is the same Jul 07 23:12:30 outside users are affected as well Jul 07 23:12:44 then a google mail machine sends it to the mailing list several times Jul 07 23:12:48 I'm not on google mail Jul 07 23:13:43 * CoreDump|home runs his own mail server Jul 07 23:13:52 http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2007-July.txt.gz Jul 07 23:14:30 SpeedEvil the mails have differen message-ids Jul 07 23:14:33 At the end Jul 07 23:14:36 It seems to happen for particular people sending from gmail for some reason. The list it happened on here banned all gmail addresses from posting for a week or so until the issue stoppped. Jul 07 23:14:40 yeah - but the same originating time Jul 07 23:14:47 compare <27183a390707061404r310e5b44s2dd446f2d9fefab6@mail.gmail.com> and <27183a390707061355l5263c3bauf2647409f5e50c53@mail.gmail.com> Jul 07 23:14:51 (which the ML archive seems to skip) Jul 07 23:15:09 SpeedEvil i still think its a problem on the sending side. means user or googles problem Jul 07 23:15:20 Yeah - it's googles Jul 07 23:15:31 Well... Jul 07 23:15:47 Unless the ML machine is doing oddness like saying sending failed Jul 07 23:16:01 http://www.linux.net.nz/pipermail/nzlug/2006-January/003104.html Jul 07 23:16:17 the ML could filter duped message IDs, fixing the symptoms Jul 07 23:17:06 CoreDump|home the message-ids are NOT dups Jul 07 23:17:19 dee above.. same message content, differen ids Jul 07 23:17:49 heh, right Jul 07 23:24:55 Hmm, no build on buildhost since nearly 4 days. Jul 07 23:30:39 that probably means current images do not compile Jul 07 23:32:59 CoreDump|home they do. buildhost is not the autobuilder which sends mails Jul 07 23:33:25 oh, I always thought they were one and the same Jul 07 23:34:32 roh - Ahh. Jul 07 23:35:04 CoreDump|home but if you need a really recent image.. i have always one here on my laptop Jul 07 23:36:13 roh: thanks for the offer but I currently have a working OM build env ;) Jul 07 23:41:19 BTW: Do we know, which images/u-boot version will be on the shipped devices? Jul 07 23:43:20 dunno.. something which is not too old to be updated Jul 07 23:43:22 ;) Jul 07 23:43:27 AFAIK the P0 image was hand-crafted by mickey ;) Jul 07 23:44:07 after all.. its a developer release Jul 07 23:46:15 indeed Jul 07 23:46:43 and looking at the current state of affairs from last week that is a good thig =) Jul 07 23:47:02 ? Jul 07 23:47:29 the last image I built was lacking all icons Jul 07 23:48:08 the last _few_ images I built lack matchbox-desktop and are utterly useless of the "today" thingie dies Jul 07 23:48:52 also the OM taskbar segfaults as soon as you look wrong at it ;) Jul 07 23:49:14 well, stop looking at it Jul 07 23:50:51 Page 4 of the manual. Jul 07 23:51:01 "How to look properly at the taskbar" Jul 07 23:51:58 hehe Jul 07 23:52:42 n8 all! Jul 07 23:57:28 SpeedEvil - *LOL* Jul 08 00:05:30 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[IPhone]] [[Buying_Interest_List]] [[Calculator]] [[Talk:IPhone]] Jul 08 01:58:44 how much space will it take to build OM and qemu? Jul 08 02:00:34 summatusmentis: mine is at 10G Jul 08 02:01:06 :-/ Jul 08 02:05:50 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[OpenMoko_under_QEMU]] Jul 08 02:20:16 is there convenient instructions to set up an openmoko build environment with all of the libs and cross-compilers, but not bother to rebuild every single app? Jul 08 02:20:42 i'm almost inclined to just run gcc on the neo, and only recompile stuff that really needs it Jul 08 02:33:59 i :) Jul 08 02:34:42 #eletcronics Jul 08 02:34:49 oops Jul 08 02:45:50 galexande: With a 2G uSD, that'd be tricky. But not if you NFS mount your server. Jul 08 02:46:09 Or a keyring 8G drive. Jul 08 02:55:57 so wen is it Jul 08 02:56:49 yes Jul 08 02:57:16 monday right **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sun Jul 08 02:59:57 2007