**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Jul 16 02:59:58 2007 Jul 16 03:00:08 me neither, but you need make this as an option as a product, am i right? Jul 16 03:00:17 if you want to do something really fantastic, add voice recognition software Jul 16 03:00:40 well maybe on something with larger screen realestate, the lcd is so small you can barely write more than 1 letter at a time Jul 16 03:01:40 320*240 is good enough, i guess Jul 16 03:02:18 again, i just sent an email to Sean to check my order, hope i can get them quickly Jul 16 03:02:29 really pissed off by lacking of debug board Jul 16 03:02:34 jackey: It's just cool. Hook up a keyboard via bluetooth, and use emacs. E-mail, notes, etc... Jul 16 03:02:48 good point Jul 16 03:06:02 jackey, on second thought you are probably right Jul 16 03:06:27 i was thinking purely in terms of useability but you are right, asshat users will be asking for stuff like this whether they use it or not Jul 16 03:09:28 goodfoot, NEO need a better MMI, i guess Jul 16 03:12:06 Mabye the next version of neo will be better for emacs. Jul 16 03:13:42 i just hope the next version is 3g Jul 16 03:14:04 i'm willing to buy each version along the way :) i just want to be able to place a phone call all else is secondary Jul 16 03:15:24 I'm with holycow Jul 16 03:15:34 i need 3g, and money Jul 16 03:15:40 give me an open source computer that can dial a phone number and I'm happy. Happier once I'm using gprs for data Jul 16 03:15:41 well i need money Jul 16 03:15:49 i'm in north america, we don't really have 3g available Jul 16 03:15:59 i have 3g Jul 16 03:16:07 if i remember correctly neo is quadband tho, and i do travel so that is kinda important Jul 16 03:16:17 yeah, neo's quadband Jul 16 03:16:17 but just making a call on something i know is open, damn. that alone is worth it Jul 16 03:16:24 in PA the center "cow valley" Jul 16 03:16:33 jadams, thx for confirmation :) i Jul 16 03:16:43 MrFeetio, lol pretty cool :) Jul 16 03:16:52 how fast is 3g for web surfing? Jul 16 03:17:00 i dont know Jul 16 03:17:04 i dont use it Jul 16 03:17:09 rofl! Jul 16 03:17:09 :) Jul 16 03:17:34 but if i were to climb a tree(haha i have youth) i can see 3 cell-phone towers Jul 16 03:17:44 they were built in the last 3 years Jul 16 03:17:48 nice Jul 16 03:17:52 holycow: 3g's plenty fast for surfing in my experience...2.5g'll be fast enough for everything I want to do Jul 16 03:17:59 not like patch sets are huge data to transfer :) Jul 16 03:18:00 good to know you can get cancer virtually instantly Jul 16 03:18:01 :) Jul 16 03:18:11 jadams, *nod* Jul 16 03:24:31 i am going to buy an eee when it comes out Jul 16 03:24:57 and when GTA03/04 come out ill be buying one of those as well Jul 16 03:25:09 whats an eee? Jul 16 03:25:13 MrFeetio: yeah, I'm thinking about getting an eee for my neice Jul 16 03:25:14 so will the openmoko software platform be likely to run with minimal effort on the gumstix board that is coming out? Jul 16 03:25:16 and one for myself of course Jul 16 03:25:19 asus eee Jul 16 03:25:32 ah yeah, its an interesting machine, i rmeember now Jul 16 03:25:34 s/neice/niece Jul 16 03:25:38 its a 7" screen UMPC Jul 16 03:25:49 seems perfect for younguns Jul 16 03:26:11 indeed Jul 16 03:26:20 i just need to get a better job Jul 16 03:26:36 im not a big fan of landscaping Jul 16 03:27:32 MrFeetio: I have to say, programming / development's a fun one Jul 16 03:27:46 I work from my home most of the time...pretty much from wherever I am Jul 16 03:27:56 my dad did it for years Jul 16 03:28:03 I've got an office, but I try to avoid going in Jul 16 03:28:05 it burned him out Jul 16 03:29:00 now he just runs a landscaping business, and maintains his old software Jul 16 03:30:14 i plan on getting into culinary arts, or computers(cant easily combine the two) Jul 16 03:30:42 7 inch? Jul 16 03:30:47 that doesn't look 7 inch to me Jul 16 03:30:57 thee "eee" come in 7 and 10 Jul 16 03:31:23 $200 and 300(i think) Jul 16 03:31:41 $250 I heard Jul 16 03:31:41 anyway Jul 16 03:31:56 interesting Jul 16 03:32:13 if they are that price we will be getting them for work here Jul 16 03:32:16 oh dothan Jul 16 03:32:24 not quite yet, gonna wait for next gen cpus to come out Jul 16 03:36:12 http://www.geekstuff4u.com/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=&products_id=521 <-- that costs almost 2k Jul 16 03:36:27 asus eee is supposed to only cost 300 Jul 16 03:36:49 $250's the latest i heard Jul 16 03:36:52 w/8gb flash Jul 16 03:37:04 oh plus no touchscreen Jul 16 03:37:10 *hmm* Jul 16 03:37:17 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Talk:Clocks]] [[Application_UI_Design_Recommendations]] [[Wishlist:Unlikely]] Jul 16 03:37:34 i can't see any 7" inch models online Jul 16 03:38:00 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tFLJJw6WRqM <-- is this the 7" model? Jul 16 03:39:22 yup Jul 16 03:39:38 well may as well then get the 10" one Jul 16 03:39:43 the case is going to be the same Jul 16 03:47:17 10" is a lot later - probably early 2k8 Jul 16 03:50:36 aha Jul 16 03:50:37 neato Jul 16 03:50:46 thx for heads up on that, thats interesting Jul 16 03:55:15 Q: are we looking at new hardware for v2 in October? Jul 16 03:55:15 bassinbo1: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (and also SH1_FAQ, Neo1973, Developer_preview and Neo1973_Hardware#GTA01Bv4 pages) (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) Jul 16 03:57:16 yes Jul 16 03:57:25 wifi, faster cpu Jul 16 03:57:45 3d gfx accelerated Jul 16 03:57:52 in October huh ? Jul 16 03:57:56 3d gfx accelerated? Jul 16 03:58:00 oh sweet jesus :) Jul 16 03:58:08 what will be the price tag ? Jul 16 03:58:09 i read that somewhere Jul 16 03:58:11 still 300 ? Jul 16 03:58:17 450, iirc Jul 16 03:58:18 bassinbo1: $450 Jul 16 03:58:34 im corrent the the gfx accelerated Jul 16 03:58:39 smedia right? Jul 16 03:59:08 !smedia Jul 16 03:59:51 I'd really like to buy a neo right now, but i guess i will wait for v2 Jul 16 04:01:08 what proc are we looking at ? Jul 16 04:04:54 MrFeetio, yes correct Jul 16 04:05:08 why do you have to have neo advanced to work on the bootloader ? Jul 16 04:05:14 i don't think i've ever heard of the smedia chipset Jul 16 04:06:10 are the accelerometers are good enough that one could use them for race car controls? Jul 16 04:06:31 i know they aren't very precise Jul 16 04:06:39 probably about the same as the wii remote? Jul 16 04:06:41 bassinbo1, you don't _have_ to, but if you break bootloader, jtag board is your only way to "reflash" your neo to bootable state again Jul 16 04:08:39 * jrockway wished he ordered the advanced kit, having bricked his WRT54G a few times with careless bootloader settings :) Jul 16 04:11:14 do we get any auto reply when we send the Yes_I_do thing? Jul 16 04:12:20 Psi: no, only for CANCEL Jul 16 04:12:23 Psi, haven't got yet Jul 16 04:12:33 ah ok Jul 16 04:12:37 ok Jul 16 04:12:40 thx Jul 16 04:13:10 i wonder how many % have canceled there order Jul 16 04:13:43 * aloril knows only about one cancel when there was double order, but no doubt most have not told here ;-) Jul 16 04:18:45 do we get confirmation that yes_i_do works right Jul 16 04:18:46 ? Jul 16 04:19:10 happycube, history :) Jul 16 04:21:35 happycube: (no) Jul 16 04:21:44 the question is does "ORANGE" count as confirmation Jul 16 04:21:51 i sent both Jul 16 04:41:53 moin Jul 16 04:43:25 so how long do ya think it will take for companies other then FIC to start making h/w for openmoko? Jul 16 04:44:12 I guess we'll see HURD before that Jul 16 04:45:01 hey, maybe HURD could be ported to them then Jul 16 04:45:06 hurd? Jul 16 04:45:42 isnt that the GNU kernel? Jul 16 04:45:43 bassinbo1: http://www.gnu.org/software/hurd/hurd.html Jul 16 04:45:47 bassinbo1: an OS kernel and running gag wrt. being released ;) Jul 16 04:46:07 bassinbo1: rumor has it it'll be released together with duke nukem forever ;) Jul 16 04:46:17 and spore Jul 16 04:46:26 blindcoder: oh i knew that, duh. I need to go to sleep Jul 16 04:47:09 all of which will fully supported on linux/bsd/hurd/solaris Jul 16 04:47:30 i sure hope duke nukem forever has linux support Jul 16 04:52:13 chances are we will see small time operators start \making hardware for the moko first Jul 16 04:52:14 frankly Jul 16 04:52:17 it sounds like fun Jul 16 04:52:23 and easy enough for a homebrew industry Jul 16 04:52:27 hell Jul 16 04:52:41 gumstix might be perfect to kickstart it Jul 16 04:53:08 I want a flip phone running openmoko.. Jul 16 04:53:37 ditto Jul 16 04:53:48 or like the style of the sidekick maybe Jul 16 04:54:03 well, no, nm, that doesn't really flip right.. screen on the inside is what I want Jul 16 04:59:29 you can flip the neo 360' around any way you like. it'll be a hit! Jul 16 05:01:06 rofl! Jul 16 05:03:07 yeah, put the accelerometers to some use ;) Jul 16 05:15:17 its official computers are gay heh http://www.picturebookmarking.com/galleries/uploaded/gaycomputer.jpg Jul 16 05:22:03 Qwell heh... i want one too... eventually someone some time reverses the razr2 ;) Jul 16 05:25:32 well actually thats a good point Jul 16 05:25:37 you just buy a used on off of ebay Jul 16 05:25:42 strip the guts and put moko parts in Jul 16 05:25:52 what phone? Jul 16 05:26:04 razr Jul 16 05:26:15 i dont think the parts will fit Jul 16 05:26:56 youd haveto right something up sure Jul 16 05:28:26 neverball will be amazing Jul 16 05:28:36 holycow as a case there is no chance you can fit something different in there Jul 16 05:28:59 i've never tried so hard to say. i've never met a piece of hardware i couldn't modify tho Jul 16 05:29:01 holycow no.. i meant like the openezx-stuff.. use hardware just as hardware, replace the software on the app cpu. Jul 16 05:29:09 no Jul 16 05:29:10 wrong Jul 16 05:29:21 replace the case Jul 16 05:29:25 leave the hardware alone Jul 16 05:30:10 holycow i work for openmoko. be assured that you will get a new neo if you archive to fit one into a razr case and keeeping it functional Jul 16 05:30:17 :) he was just looking for a different case format Jul 16 05:30:42 lol :) well that answers what Jul 16 05:30:48 i want a dual screen neo Jul 16 05:30:50 what are you guys soldering the board ON the case? Jul 16 05:30:58 why would it make any difference? Jul 16 05:30:59 clamshell Jul 16 05:31:56 roh, clearly moko guts won't fit a razor i'm certain, lots of hackery would be required and it would be quite ugly Jul 16 05:32:01 dualscreen neo (clamshell), 3g, and 2 sd card slots Jul 16 05:32:03 the board is snapped into the case and the the 2nd half is clipped and screwed agains the 1rst half.. or whats the question` Jul 16 05:32:16 roh, i'm not sure its a question Jul 16 05:32:34 someone was thinking a clamshell would be an interesting idea Jul 16 05:32:44 you know what would be even more open, same phone but you can choose your case type ie clamshell etc Jul 16 05:33:00 i like my idea Jul 16 05:33:06 barring making something new, one should be able to find a clamshell design of an older phone, rip the guts out of a moko and place it into said case with A LOT of work Jul 16 05:33:31 just get an old moto clamshell , they were pretty big Jul 16 05:33:33 have a mobo snap into a case first, and then having anything screwed in anywhere i don't see as an issue Jul 16 05:34:08 or go to a toy shop and buy a kids fake clamshell mobile phone Jul 16 05:34:21 no that is a good idea Jul 16 05:34:27 that could work too Jul 16 05:34:29 its all plastic Jul 16 05:34:31 s/no/now Jul 16 05:34:48 attaching stuff to plastic is easy, you can mount whatever spacers you need for any ty pe of screw/mount points Jul 16 05:35:13 omg, im going to put my neo in a ds Jul 16 05:35:22 a heavily moded ds Jul 16 05:35:23 infact if you are clever you could even use types of foam and 'squeeze' things into place without using screws Jul 16 05:35:25 anyone know what mhz the v2 is going to be running at? Jul 16 05:35:29 and get shock absorption for free Jul 16 05:35:34 linux_galore ive discussed that case-problem a lot now (i wanted buttons) and the answer is simple: its the count that matters. when we are selling 20k pieces a month a second cool case would be much more reasonable. but tooling is very expensive to we need to build a one-size-fits all first to develop the hard and software Jul 16 05:35:37 just hot glue some plastic stand-offs into the case Jul 16 05:36:04 yeah i'm sure they will do it when the business case shows it to be viable Jul 16 05:36:13 what is the ds screen size? Jul 16 05:36:36 or even better just make a wood case Jul 16 05:36:46 could do that too yes Jul 16 05:36:57 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[User:Historybuff]] Jul 16 05:36:57 carve out a single piece Jul 16 05:37:02 i want to put my phone in a ds/ds lite(would be harder) Jul 16 05:37:06 bassinbo1: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 Jul 16 05:37:07 could also do a 'printed plastic' dealie with one of those emulsion plastics printers Jul 16 05:37:26 lol speaking of which *hmm* Jul 16 05:37:28 yeah true, use a fab printer Jul 16 05:37:36 send pix :) Jul 16 05:37:39 actually that could work very well indeed Jul 16 05:39:09 Im flipping between steam punking one or just making a wood case Jul 16 05:39:25 linux_galore: hardened maple? Jul 16 05:39:46 or red oak? Jul 16 05:40:04 ie. the same woods you'd use for a long-lasting hardwood floor? Jul 16 05:40:16 linux_galore, lol! steampunk Jul 16 05:40:19 oh thats a good one too Jul 16 05:40:29 ckuethe, wow interesting idea Jul 16 05:40:48 roh, how does it feel to work on a project/company where people are already looking at ways to do value/adds with your product? Jul 16 05:41:07 i think a neo would fit nicely into a ds, is there anyway to attach a second screen to the neo's mobo? Jul 16 05:41:11 holycow: Huon Pine, I have a big block of it, the tree was over 1,000 year old that I got it from (died) Jul 16 05:41:25 pine is fairly soft though Jul 16 05:41:33 no Huon is a hardwood Jul 16 05:41:46 nifty Jul 16 05:41:51 looks like pine though and has a great smell Jul 16 05:42:14 only found in Tasmania Jul 16 05:42:15 having a cedar- or juniper-scented phone might be nice Jul 16 05:42:47 linux_galore, *oo* Jul 16 05:44:18 the oldest living organism from memory is a Huon Pine Jul 16 05:44:39 and you killed it Jul 16 05:44:40 ? Jul 16 05:44:42 congratulations Jul 16 05:44:44 *cough* Jul 16 05:44:52 no.. I got a dead branch Jul 16 05:45:16 buggin ya Jul 16 05:45:54 the trees grow in groves and they are all related to the one tree, bit like a vine Jul 16 05:46:59 the smell from the wood is very nice Jul 16 05:47:07 the oldest living organism? Jul 16 05:47:34 hads: yeah they found a tree in Tasmania that over 10,000 years old Jul 16 05:47:53 thats older than the amazon rain forrest Jul 16 05:49:17 people always talk about the amazon being biodiverse but here in Australia we have forrests over 150,000 years old and have different ecosystems every 10 meters Jul 16 05:49:52 holycow how it feels? good. in contrast to other companys we ARE interrested when people want to customize their phones and make that possible in the first time by concept. Jul 16 05:50:22 roh, i really get the sense that you guys do care Jul 16 05:50:23 *nod* Jul 16 05:50:42 its really cool as a user and enthusiast Jul 16 05:51:06 to be exact: great ;) ive not joined for money, but for working in a company that adheres the rules of opensource and wants to listen to the comunity. we are in full knowledge that when we work against the community we would fail, so we don't Jul 16 05:52:15 good example of a seriously Biodiverse Australian forrest is the daintree rain forest Jul 16 05:53:12 trust me, everything in the daintree is so evolved that you have to be very careful when walking through it because there are plants we hardly know anything about that will poison you Jul 16 05:53:13 roh, as a note, if you guys haveto turn proprietary i won't hold it agains the company Jul 16 05:53:25 i just think its cool that someone is trying to make a go at this Jul 16 05:53:39 and while i believe y ou guys will be crzy successfull Jul 16 05:53:48 linux_galore: Not really anything to do with openmoko though... Jul 16 05:53:59 i'm realistic enough to know bills haveto be paid as well Jul 16 05:54:00 hads: not really Jul 16 05:54:10 holycow i don't think that will ever happen. it would rob credability and trust, and would not help any business though. Jul 16 05:54:17 but its the right products for a market that already exists imho Jul 16 05:54:39 roh, it would put you guys in direct competition with the motorolas of the world *nod* Jul 16 05:55:12 Nokia, Palm Moto all use Linux just to name a few Jul 16 05:55:34 ack. and what do you wanna gain in a market where only nokia earns real money and everybody else is in for marketshare? Jul 16 05:55:44 and all are missing how to connect with the community Jul 16 05:55:52 mostly because they are too big to really see that it exists Jul 16 05:56:03 linux_galore heh.. and noone of them produced a single real opensource phone yet Jul 16 05:56:04 holycow: N800 has a good little community Jul 16 05:56:05 roh, totally Jul 16 05:56:37 yeah but none have a community when it comes to the phone Jul 16 05:56:40 it does? Jul 16 05:56:46 oh n800 Jul 16 05:56:48 oh yeah right Jul 16 05:56:58 well i love that project but i don't get the device Jul 16 05:57:26 i presume at home with a media center of some sort it would make a great controllerr/browser Jul 16 05:57:30 holycow: N800 is like an extreme remote control , think of it like that then you get it Jul 16 05:57:40 aha, okay *nod* interesting Jul 16 05:57:47 see the thing is, moko will be able to do the same Jul 16 05:58:22 for a while I thought Palm was going in the right direction ... palmos was pretty open (not opensource, but hackable) Jul 16 05:58:52 holycow: N800 is showing that you dont need to haul a big assed PC around to do everything, in fact the PC can be in another country with the N800 as your interface Jul 16 05:58:59 holycow heh.. i want to do that with my moko if i find time... use avahi/mdns for service discovery and some pygtk app as gui to controll my xbox and what i need to yet build for hdtv Jul 16 05:59:43 roh, hey mate had the same idea totally :) Jul 16 05:59:53 opemmoko is like the N800 but with a phone built in an smaller Jul 16 05:59:54 roh, thats infact one of the things that i want a moko for Jul 16 06:00:11 roh another one is i'm going to rework my car, including the starte components Jul 16 06:00:22 they will be hooked into the onboard system for security Jul 16 06:00:34 i want to call my car to turn it on, open the trunk, unlock it Jul 16 06:00:35 etc Jul 16 06:00:41 be fun to see stuff being ported from the N800 to the openmoko Jul 16 06:00:46 and vice versa Jul 16 06:01:14 well thats the thing exactly, when that n700 device came out people said two thinks Jul 16 06:01:20 can i make phone calls and where is the kb Jul 16 06:01:21 but Jul 16 06:01:27 you are right they are not positioning it right Jul 16 06:01:37 holycow the moko has i2c, spi, a irq input for such stuff on a connector ;) Jul 16 06:01:37 what you said earlier is brilliant, 'think home remote' Jul 16 06:01:41 that awesome Jul 16 06:01:47 roh, no kidden? Jul 16 06:01:49 *oo* Jul 16 06:02:03 roh, sec i wanna show you the kind of case i want to build for the moko Jul 16 06:02:09 yeah, openmoko "The remote for your whole life" Jul 16 06:02:22 thats what celphones are turning into actually Jul 16 06:02:27 i will open up my garage too via moko Jul 16 06:02:30 via ssh Jul 16 06:02:35 none of that current bullshit they use Jul 16 06:02:46 anyway Im out stuff to do Jul 16 06:02:51 holycow http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973_Hardware#Debug_Connector Jul 16 06:03:28 roh: http://www.mobiletechreview.com/phones/HTC-Mogul.htm Jul 16 06:03:34 i want to build something like that for it Jul 16 06:03:35 and when my alarm goes off I will use openmoko to ssh into it to run "alarmclock --snooze 5" Jul 16 06:03:56 roh, i won't even haveto remove too much of the moko case, just enough to figure out how to wire up the kb Jul 16 06:04:02 wiml, haha! Jul 16 06:04:10 i use my cel right now as an alarm clock Jul 16 06:04:17 i don't have any other alarm clock Jul 16 06:04:51 holycow good luck. case design is tough work and highly critical to do it right Jul 16 06:05:33 hm, that makes me wonder if there are interesting usage overlaps between openmoko and chumby ( http://www.chumby.com/ ) Jul 16 06:05:33 roh, its just for me, i don't expect success :) will just give it a go Jul 16 06:05:43 i suspect i will endup with something with a lot of duct tape on it :) Jul 16 06:05:43 haha Jul 16 06:06:17 roh, question for ya, any tips on how a kb could be wired into the moko? i really don't want to use bluetooth even though it would be convenient ... for security reasons? Jul 16 06:06:57 hm.. use i2c or spi and the irq line to wake up the driver so you do not need to poll (saves power) Jul 16 06:07:36 you just need some kind of mux/buffer/businterface.. eventually philips has a nice i2c-kbd part Jul 16 06:07:48 aha Jul 16 06:07:50 * holycow takes notes Jul 16 06:07:53 coolness thx Jul 16 06:08:22 send me a mail when you got some prototype ;) Jul 16 06:08:44 will do :) Jul 16 06:08:44 or maybe use a cheap microcontroller with an i2c or spi slave onchip Jul 16 06:09:36 wiml will be a question of how much power the chips need.. ive got no recent market overview at hand Jul 16 06:12:09 picaxe chips are dirt cheap, easily programmable (BASIC), and can do i2c Jul 16 06:13:23 ls Jul 16 06:13:53 yeah, you could use a pic, or an atmel chip, or one of the phillips 8051 variants ... roh is probably right you'd want to choose based on power consumption Jul 16 06:14:21 * holycow taking more notes and googling Jul 16 06:14:23 danke kindly! Jul 16 06:28:37 Morning everyone Jul 16 06:30:48 Has openmoko opened AT manual? Jul 16 06:33:21 richard: you mean for the GSM radio? the only documentation for that is the GSM spec itself Jul 16 06:33:56 richard: the hardware is apparently under strict NDA, but it is supposed to be 100% compatible. I dont have hardware so i dont know... Jul 16 06:34:21 I meant AT commands Jul 16 06:35:00 I know Ti extends some AT commands Jul 16 06:35:51 richard: there was some discussion about this on a mailing list: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/gsmd-devel/2007-July/thread.html Jul 16 06:36:44 richard: Harold Welte has stressed that the published spec is all that is needed Jul 16 06:36:59 *Harald Jul 16 06:44:54 let's make some command bruteforcer :p Jul 16 07:00:07 cibomahto: Thank you! Jul 16 07:00:54 richard: no problem! Jul 16 07:01:28 Im reading up on something, when did bluetooth start working up to 100 meters Jul 16 07:01:53 they talk about a class 1 device etc Jul 16 07:02:01 linux_galore: I think that's pretty old Jul 16 07:02:08 Yeah Jul 16 07:02:34 no this is with a new headset Im looking at, normally headset only work a few meters Jul 16 07:03:03 Ah, nice. Would suit my class 1 bt plug at the pc :D Jul 16 07:03:29 is bluetooth encrypted? Jul 16 07:03:33 so basically you get the device classified as a class 1 then you can use it over 100 meters Jul 16 07:03:44 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bluetooth Jul 16 07:03:51 ah of course, sorry Jul 16 07:04:14 That wasn't just for you holycow, linux_galore too. Jul 16 07:06:09 hmm I didnt know you could classify a headset as a class 1 device, I thought that was only hubs/routers etc Jul 16 07:07:12 hm.. i wonder what people bother with at command docs.. Jul 16 07:07:43 nothing interresting there anyways.. all interresting stuff has gpled drivers Jul 16 07:09:19 roh: someone has to write those drivers though, right? Jul 16 07:10:44 roh: I hope you didn't have any trouble with the customs getting the phones from China? Jul 16 07:11:11 Good Morning :-) Jul 16 07:11:31 Hello :) Jul 16 07:11:48 what actually am I suposed to do once I have compiled the Moko-image with the makefile? Jul 16 07:12:27 how much space does that take up btw? Jul 16 07:12:27 I hope 3 GB are sufficient Jul 16 07:13:00 morning Jul 16 07:13:14 isn't there a way to run it natively on Linux? Jul 16 07:13:22 Well, if you set that INHERIT += "rm_work" Jul 16 07:13:34 Otherwise it's about 7.5 gb Jul 16 07:13:56 wow Jul 16 07:13:56 that's much Jul 16 07:13:58 Ophelia: And yes, you can compile native and run in Xoo, or just as regular gtk-apps Jul 16 07:14:06 faq? Jul 16 07:14:07 See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (and also SH1_FAQ, Neo1973, Developer_preview and Neo1973_Hardware#GTA01Bv4 pages) Jul 16 07:14:09 cool Jul 16 07:14:48 There's a lot of good information in the wiki Jul 16 07:14:52 what does 'INHERIT="rm_work"' do? Jul 16 07:15:15 Ophelia: It removes all temporary build files after the package is built Jul 16 07:15:36 Without it, all unpacked sources and intermediate files are left on the disk Jul 16 07:15:38 aha Jul 16 07:16:10 It's all well described at http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/MokoMakefile Jul 16 07:16:12 :) Jul 16 07:16:20 so, I need 7.5 GB of free space in the first place? Jul 16 07:16:41 It's just I only have 3 GB left ;-) Jul 16 07:16:49 on the disk Jul 16 07:17:37 will that be sufficient? Jul 16 07:17:44 I'll check how much space mine takes now Jul 16 07:17:55 ok Jul 16 07:18:21 running du -hs *, but it's taking a while.. Jul 16 07:18:30 thanks Jul 16 07:18:41 no problem ;-) Jul 16 07:18:45 looks like seinnheiser make a not so kosher class 1 headset now, wonder how they work around the rules Jul 16 07:18:47 tyt Jul 16 07:18:58 hehe Jul 16 07:19:03 sorry bluetooth headset* Jul 16 07:19:14 linux_galore: What rules? Jul 16 07:19:34 CM: I always though class 1 devices were routers etc Jul 16 07:19:37 thought* Jul 16 07:19:44 Aha, ok Jul 16 07:19:49 CM: I like du -msx *| sort -n | tail -n 20 Jul 16 07:20:15 keesj: Thanks, I'll try that :) Jul 16 07:20:15 i cheat and use kdirstat Jul 16 07:20:28 use rm_work to reduce the space taken Jul 16 07:20:42 Ophelia: Mine still takes 3.3gb Jul 16 07:20:56 CM: aha Jul 16 07:20:59 CM: having a class 1 device glued to your ear all day doesnt seem like a clever idea Jul 16 07:21:00 A lot of it is sources Jul 16 07:21:06 good morning Jul 16 07:21:10 * gcb77 used "df -k ." and got 2.6GB Jul 16 07:21:13 linux_galore: I agree, quite some radiation Jul 16 07:21:14 that's much Jul 16 07:21:21 why is it so much Jul 16 07:21:29 won't all be on the phone later, wil it? Jul 16 07:23:03 1.4 GB in build Jul 16 07:23:14 550MB in source Jul 16 07:23:24 (source = bzip packages) Jul 16 07:24:30 Ophelia: I think my jffs2 images is around 32mb Jul 16 07:24:32 what does that denote? Jul 16 07:25:03 ophelia: im over 10GB, but i have it built for both x86 and arm Jul 16 07:25:39 I have 2gb in build, 770mb sources and 550 mb in other folders and files Jul 16 07:26:04 Ophelia: That image is what will be on the phone Jul 16 07:26:04 du is counting mine now. Jul 16 07:26:45 aha Jul 16 07:27:00 It's using some very heavy caching. Jul 16 07:27:05 ok Jul 16 07:28:55 just a tiny question: once I've built all that, what should I do to start that System natively (not in an emulator)? Jul 16 07:29:11 since the wiki seems to only give information about emulators Jul 16 07:30:25 Ophelia: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Xoo Jul 16 07:31:38 Um, overall du is only reporting 282M in the openmoko tree, and that's without rm_work Jul 16 07:32:07 I think I know why. Jul 16 07:32:20 hihi Jul 16 07:32:59 Helps if I get the options right. Jul 16 07:33:01 that's what it says on the Xoo-Page Jul 16 07:33:01 After a while (half a day) the build should complete. Jul 16 07:36:29 ewanm89_laptop: I only have that too, the big ones are moko/build and moko/sources Jul 16 07:36:37 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Mokopedia]] [[Talk:Mokopedia]] [[Application_UI_Design_Recommendations]] [[Talk:Test_Openmoko_Emulation_with_chroot_image]] Jul 16 07:37:17 CM: I was passing the wrong option to get it to count the lot. Jul 16 07:37:28 Ah, ok :) Jul 16 07:40:38 hmm, I think I'll wait until my quadCore Computer has been finished ;-) Jul 16 07:40:38 with 4GB of RAM Jul 16 07:40:38 life will be easier then, I suppose Jul 16 07:40:49 CM 12GB in all. Jul 16 07:41:16 Ophelia: Easier to do what? Jul 16 07:42:18 easier to compile that stuff here :-) Jul 16 07:42:18 faster, I mean Jul 16 07:42:35 night all Jul 16 07:44:08 Ophelia: Have you told it to parrallel build? Jul 16 07:45:01 no, not yet Jul 16 07:45:29 but up to now I still need a processor for my new PC Jul 16 07:45:45 and some RAM Jul 16 07:45:45 and a graphics card Jul 16 07:46:08 Ophelia: A complete build took about 7.5h on my amd3000+ with 1gb ram Jul 16 07:47:47 at the moment, I have an Intel P4 1GHz with 125 MB RAM Jul 16 07:47:47 so much for that... ;-) Jul 16 07:47:57 A complete build here took abot 5 hours, on a core2duo T5500 with a 1GB of ram, and the processor was clocked down for powersaving at the time. Jul 16 07:48:39 My sempron2600 takes about 16hours. Jul 16 07:48:42 ewanm89_laptop: I want a core2 too ;) Jul 16 07:49:08 CM: That's my laptop. Jul 16 07:51:09 ewanm89_laptop i'm on a T7600 2gb ram here.. building on slower machines would propably drive me mad in a short time Jul 16 07:51:51 roh: It's not bad, as I said I had the processor clocked down. Jul 16 07:51:55 does anyone have an idea as to how I can empty the trash as root-user in Ubuntu? Jul 16 07:52:28 ewanm89_laptop i just let the kernel ondemand speestep away.. works great Jul 16 07:53:03 roh: Any chance the orders might start shipping today? Jul 16 07:55:48 Ophelia, the contents are in each user's homedir in the .Trash directory, you can delete the contents Jul 16 07:56:05 Ophelia: I'm afraid that requires remembering where gnome stores it, alas I don't. Jul 16 07:56:07 rm -r ~/.Trash/* should do it. Jul 16 08:00:41 hmm Jul 16 08:01:00 it seems as if hidden folders don't get displayed Jul 16 08:01:21 names that start with a dot are normally hidden Jul 16 08:02:14 in the shell you use ls -a to see them, in nautilus there's a menu option Jul 16 08:04:05 CM ive got no clue Jul 16 08:04:16 Ok, thanks anyway :) Jul 16 08:04:42 Just really hope there's a chance I'll get it this week.. Jul 16 08:06:11 CM: What was your question? Jul 16 08:06:40 ewanm89_laptop: If roh knew if they would start shipping today as they said Jul 16 08:07:01 I'm off for a 2-week vacation starting saturday.. :-/ Jul 16 08:07:25 CM: Ah, and I can't even order a neo :( Jul 16 08:11:09 wahey - just got the mokomakefile to build now I'm back on the desktop Jul 16 08:12:16 CM: Hopefully I can order a neo in a couple of weeks time. Jul 16 08:15:24 CM: I've been off IRC all weekend - has there been any further news on the shipping date? Jul 16 08:17:33 andylockran: Nope Jul 16 08:17:42 andylockran: Last news was they were hoping to ship today. Jul 16 08:17:51 andylockran: Asked roh a few minutes ago and ha didn't know anything Jul 16 08:18:17 ship to US, or ship with UPS from US? Jul 16 08:19:01 jeddy3: UPS from US. Jul 16 08:19:02 I think the question was if they would have any trouble with the chinese customs getting the phones to taiwan Jul 16 08:19:10 ewanm89_laptop, ok nice Jul 16 08:20:18 But I can't even order one :( Jul 16 08:20:20 * jeddy3 is a little afraid we should have heard something if chinese customs were cleared Jul 16 08:20:37 * andylockran agrees with jeddy3 Jul 16 08:21:04 jeddy3: I'm sure I read something to that effect. Jul 16 08:21:06 It's be surprised if there was no trouble with shipping Jul 16 08:21:16 So far, there's always been delays Jul 16 08:21:33 CM, indeed :) Jul 16 08:22:20 I'm hoping that either they ship now so I get it on friday, or they can just as well ship it after my vacation when I'm back in town again. :D Jul 16 08:24:22 I realy don't mind slight delays, as long as I get information about it. What annoys me is that obviously something is not going smooth with the shipping but officials are just quiet about it. Jul 16 08:24:45 * holycow throws some cold water on mafeu Jul 16 08:25:17 Sean seems very good on this, when he isn't to busy trying to fix the problems. Jul 16 08:25:18 i understand that us in north america think that the customer is always right but ya know the customer/vendor thing is a two way street Jul 16 08:26:01 i'm betting on giving everyone time to do their job right :) Jul 16 08:27:03 mafeu: I agree with you though. Delays are ok, as long as you get informed on what's going on and why Jul 16 08:32:08 CM: I assume (and hope) that the openmoko.com/org guys are not too much involved in this shipping and ordering thing. I's rather see them working on the software. I guess orders/sales is done by FIC. But since the openmoko guys in TW are certainly in contatct with FIC a quick 'Guys, we have problems, wait another week.' mail would do the job for me. Jul 16 08:34:50 I'm pretty sure that someone mentioned in an email that they had cleared customs, but given that it's 1:30am on the west coast a bit of patience may be required to see if they hit their date or not Jul 16 08:36:54 did fic outsource delivery? Jul 16 08:37:28 IIRC, you can have amazon deliver your goods. think about amazon what you want, but they ARE competent in that Jul 16 08:38:21 i think people are WAAAAAY overexpecting stuff Jul 16 08:38:43 if you read about the developments these guys went from a pet internal project to being spun off as their own company Jul 16 08:39:01 between development, r&d, sales and all sorts of other things a business has to take care of Jul 16 08:39:08 they are probably strutched beyond belief Jul 16 08:39:45 i would say relax. support the first company making a stake on the open source angle Jul 16 08:41:47 Good call. Jul 16 08:44:26 this is an awesome project. things like this, that are designed as open from the ground up give me hope that the future won't be a locked down cyberpunk dystopia Jul 16 08:44:47 absolutely Jul 16 08:45:29 if i turn out to be too stupid or something to make the phone do anything i will still feel happy to have such an open paperweight =) Jul 16 08:45:40 ;) Jul 16 08:45:44 heh Jul 16 08:48:30 Well, I've already got some patches to get sudo and shadow password support onto the phone, however I can't order one myself. Jul 16 08:48:36 :( Jul 16 08:49:04 Should be able to in a few weeks though. Jul 16 08:49:20 i have to laugh at all the people trying to hack the iphone Jul 16 08:49:32 what a waste of effort Jul 16 08:49:38 (closed platforms)-- Jul 16 08:50:32 jrockway, absolutely Jul 16 08:50:38 i get the 'just because its there part' Jul 16 08:50:42 quinton: considering how easy it is to run openmoko in qemu, i guess it won't be hard to flash the phone. And the dialer seems to work ... So you can make phonecalls. Jul 16 08:50:47 but man, apple is the worst freedom offender out there Jul 16 08:50:55 why ever try to help them ... i don't get that Jul 16 08:51:32 apple products tend to have a userbase that wants to spend money on shitty shareware Jul 16 08:51:37 so that's the incentive in hacking it Jul 16 08:51:45 Is anyone able to do any bluetooth related things on Neo1973? ex. pairing Jul 16 08:51:52 plus you can have an ultra-stylish status symbol AND have your program running on it ;) Jul 16 08:52:17 * jrockway prefers the open platform though Jul 16 08:52:48 well thats what they think they have Jul 16 08:52:51 frankly Jul 16 08:52:54 yeah Jul 16 08:53:08 i think they have a $3000 dialup-speed web browser Jul 16 08:53:18 apple indicates a whole lot of things i wouldn't want to have associated with me :) Jul 16 08:53:28 jrockway, heh! Jul 16 08:53:32 (yay for mandatory 2 year contract. ouch.) Jul 16 08:53:45 i used to have a mac, but i couldn't *do* anything with it Jul 16 08:53:52 emacs didn't work right, i coudln't install any useful software Jul 16 08:54:02 so i switched back to linux, and now my computer actually works :) Jul 16 08:54:08 i hope my phone will be the same way Jul 16 08:54:13 i started on linux many years ago, it really took a long time to understand what freedom means Jul 16 08:54:15 and why its important Jul 16 08:54:16 (although i don't have a phone right now, because they are all so useless) Jul 16 08:54:26 you want emacs on your phone? Jul 16 08:54:33 and my perspective on ms and apple has changed a whole lot Jul 16 08:54:47 its like i was alice in wonderland and now i'm back to reality Jul 16 08:54:48 ljp: heh. i do now :) Jul 16 08:54:59 ljp, i do! Jul 16 08:55:19 i wish the neo1976 had 3G though Jul 16 08:55:19 jrockway, ditto on phones. i have one because i haveto have one but its just such a useless piece of garbage Jul 16 08:55:42 does the dev version have any GPRS/EDGE support at all? Jul 16 08:56:01 mafeu, i've played a bit with it in qemu in an ugly slap-dash way, i'm still setting up my proper build machine. i want to get my hands dirty, i want to make a contribution if i can Jul 16 08:56:07 Is anyone able to do any bluetooth related things on Neo1973? ex. pairing Jul 16 08:56:30 jrockway: GPRS yes, EDGE no Jul 16 08:57:03 mafeu, a part of me wants everything to just work, but a part of me wants me to have to suffer, because that's always how i learn stuff Jul 16 08:57:29 heh, i also want everything to work... but considering i have nothing right now anything will be an improvement Jul 16 08:58:16 well at minimum i just want something i can dial out with in quad band. that pretty much nails it for me Jul 16 08:58:18 the rest is gravy Jul 16 08:58:22 quinton: only tried the pre-builds so far, got the sources, but had no time yet to compile (its > 5h even on a fast machine, isn't it?) Jul 16 08:58:46 quinton, lol @ suffer comment Jul 16 08:58:57 mafeu: It depends on what you class as fast. Jul 16 08:59:24 i have wondered if sometimes distro's put deliberate problems in, just so you have to figue it out. to me it always seems more satisfying when it has been an ordeal Jul 16 08:59:46 heh, probably not Jul 16 08:59:52 debian never has problems :) Jul 16 09:00:40 Well openmoko is closer to being gentoo based. Jul 16 09:02:04 i'd love to be able to wipe it and install debian on it with moko parts packaged up :) Jul 16 09:02:09 but alas its a phone so whatever Jul 16 09:02:39 howdy Jul 16 09:02:50 ewanm89_laptop: I have a E6600 Core 2 Duo. Jul 16 09:03:01 the only problem i've ever had with the portage system is when it asked me to go back and compile a dependancy with an extra option Jul 16 09:04:08 summatusmentis right Jul 16 09:04:32 mafeu: You should be a bit faster theb. Jul 16 09:04:42 s/eb/en/ Jul 16 09:04:42 ewanm89_laptop meant: mafeu: You should be a bit faster then. Jul 16 09:05:09 ewanm89_laptop: Well then, I'll give it a shot tonight (CEST)! Jul 16 09:05:23 quinton: I said based, and I'm using gentoo here, but not portage. Jul 16 09:05:31 /kpin #bluez Jul 16 09:06:11 slytherin: Was that supposed to be /join ? Jul 16 09:06:30 ewanm89_laptop, i haven't tried many distro's, what are you using instead? Jul 16 09:06:41 ewanm89_laptop: Yes. :-) Jul 16 09:06:50 quinton: paludis. Jul 16 09:10:21 ewanm89_laptop, i'm looking at the wikipedia page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paludis . do you know why it has a feature to reinstall scm after an interval? Jul 16 09:12:38 ewanm89_laptop, i mean, do you know what that would be for? Jul 16 09:14:48 hi! Jul 16 09:15:42 quinton: Never used it, but they must of had a reason for putting it iun there. Jul 16 09:15:47 oh wait, i get it, i'm a dope. i thought it was talking about the actual software for itself! Jul 16 09:15:51 s/iu/i/ Jul 16 09:15:52 ewanm89_laptop meant: quinton: Never used it, but they must of had a reason for putting it in there. Jul 16 09:16:43 quinton: scm == source code management == svn, cvs, monotone, git... Jul 16 09:17:23 yes, i thought it meant reinstalling those packages. i guess my mind was on that because i just installed those ones myself Jul 16 09:17:52 ewanm89_laptop, it looks interesting anyway, thanks for the info, i'll give it a try Jul 16 09:19:42 is anyone here working on handling orders? Jul 16 09:19:59 ewanm89_laptop: Any downsides so far using paludis? Jul 16 09:20:15 I am notserpe. Jul 16 09:20:21 Not of the neo though. Jul 16 09:20:25 heh. Jul 16 09:20:50 notserpe_: No one here is, and we don't know anything about how it's going with the orders Jul 16 09:21:30 rumour has it that they start shipping today Jul 16 09:21:36 I've had both my orders cancelled because I asked if they could be combined shipped and told to reorder, but now I'm all upset that I won't get at least 1 unit in a few days. :( Jul 16 09:22:43 * notserpe_ sighs that it's monday. Jul 16 09:22:59 notserpe_: is monday that boring then? Jul 16 09:23:10 this monday is quite good... Jul 16 09:23:18 A million things to do and no will to do them. Jul 16 09:23:40 ...and I'm on vacation! Jul 16 09:23:46 have you read the mail from microsoft? Jul 16 09:24:01 hmm? Jul 16 09:24:08 there's a mail from microsoft in the community list Jul 16 09:24:24 'All your ideas belong to us!' Jul 16 09:24:34 sweet. Jul 16 09:24:42 * SpeedEvil hasn't read it. Jul 16 09:24:51 link? Jul 16 09:24:56 http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2007-July/007081.html Jul 16 09:25:10 seems like the openmoko community won 2,5 million Jul 16 09:25:14 haha Jul 16 09:25:37 hehehe Jul 16 09:25:51 paid by microsoft Jul 16 09:25:52 "This is the future home of microsoftclaim.com Hosted by Texo: ethical webhosting" Jul 16 09:25:53 just my luck... the monotone package is broken on debian unstable right now :) Jul 16 09:25:55 *snickers* Jul 16 09:26:06 so how many scms does openmoko use? Jul 16 09:26:12 *giggle* Jul 16 09:26:15 that still doesn't make up for me probably not getting an SH1 when I was < #1900 :( Jul 16 09:26:29 although at the beginning i thought they REALLY were pitching those stupid suse vouchers Jul 16 09:26:29 hehe Jul 16 09:26:48 holycow: lol Jul 16 09:31:44 counter Jul 16 09:31:44 (last update 2007-07-14 16:40) http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter : Order https://direct.openmoko.com/ ; Shipping prob. 65% in a day 02:28:10 (1.103±1.0 days) (1747;248) Jul 16 09:32:41 notserpe_, why whould you not get one? Jul 16 09:35:59 how long does it take to make openmoko devel image ? Jul 16 09:36:08 2-20 hours Jul 16 09:36:11 it's just running and running and... Jul 16 09:36:12 depending on system. Jul 16 09:36:14 hmmm Jul 16 09:36:22 maybe >2 Jul 16 09:36:25 jeddy3: I just woke up to receive 2 emails about my order(s) being cancelled. I asked on my second order that it be combined shipping with my first if possible. I got a response that both my orders were cancelled and I should reorder. Jul 16 09:36:26 it's like an athlon xp2600+ Jul 16 09:36:29 but 10 hours is quite typical Jul 16 09:36:37 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Category:OpenMoko_Local_Groups:_Berlin]] [[OpenEmbedded]] [[Oops]] [[Neo1973_compatible_cellphone_providers]] [[Neo1973_OpenOCD]] [[Neo1973:_GTA01Bv4_versus_GTA02_comparison]] [[NAND_bad_blocks]] [[Test_Openmoko_Emulation_with_chroot_image]] and other changes Jul 16 09:36:51 wow, that's quite some time Jul 16 09:37:01 what if I recompile, still 10h? Jul 16 09:37:07 Consider that it's building a whole linux distribution. Jul 16 09:37:10 notserpe_, ouch Jul 16 09:37:17 No - only what's changed builds Jul 16 09:37:44 I have added a line, was like "INHERIT += something" Jul 16 09:37:48 will the PDA02 have a camera ? Jul 16 09:37:49 which said saves space Jul 16 09:37:59 but I removed it 1min ago Jul 16 09:38:02 ugh, camera phones Jul 16 09:38:20 psch camera is useful Jul 16 09:38:23 do you think it removed anything so far? Jul 16 09:39:20 SpeedEvil: why does it take that long ? Jul 16 09:39:33 It's building _everything_. Jul 16 09:39:36 Xwindows, ... Jul 16 09:39:56 yeah but still, it's building very minimal configs of everything Jul 16 09:40:32 minimal config, including all the dependencies and any tools the build deps require Jul 16 09:40:33 Which are still quite large. Jul 16 09:41:10 SpeedEvil: in my local.conf I had INHERIT+= "rm_work", just before starting to build... but now, seeing how much it takes to compile everything, I removed it... do you think it removed anything so far? or it removes the file at the end, after all it's done? Jul 16 09:41:45 s/file/files Jul 16 09:42:21 Dunno Jul 16 09:42:26 jeddy3: pretty harsh seeing as I would have just cancelled the extra unit if given the choice. If I'm pushed to SH2 I'm going to cancel this order and sulk for a long while. if I get both as part of SH1, I'm gonna throw a party. My orders were < #1900 and < #2000 respectively. Jul 16 09:42:43 * notserpe_ gets over his morning freakout. Jul 16 09:45:38 notserpe_: are there rumours on how many units are available for initial P1 orders? Jul 16 09:46:03 i'm 2300 or so Jul 16 09:46:08 i hope i get one :) Jul 16 09:46:22 I think the cutoff was 2700 ish Jul 16 09:47:22 mafeu: The first batch is supposedly around 1000 units. Jul 16 09:47:48 cody1: from where is that information? Jul 16 09:48:00 codyl: I'm guessing it's higher than that, but I'm just guessing too Jul 16 09:48:34 It started on #1820, and not all tickets are orders. Jul 16 09:48:54 mafeu, i think nothing official, only a estimate of ~1000 units and first ticket of 1820 Jul 16 09:49:10 CM, ya , so 1000+1820 - call it 2700 ;-) Jul 16 09:49:11 cool Jul 16 09:49:21 * jeddy3 also guessing higher than ~2700 Jul 16 09:49:28 I make it 2820 Jul 16 09:49:41 * CM bets on 3000 Jul 16 09:49:43 what is rt at right now? Jul 16 09:49:59 going to be interesting with my order #2704 :-) Jul 16 09:50:14 Highest on the P1_Owners page is 3473 or so Jul 16 09:50:17 early counts showed that 0.7 times the tickets were actual orders, so add some tickets to those 1000 Jul 16 09:51:12 CM, where is that page? Jul 16 09:51:21 codyl: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/P1_Owners Jul 16 09:51:30 oh, wiki Jul 16 09:51:30 thanks Jul 16 09:51:35 Just a wiki page, add yourself if you want :) Jul 16 09:51:42 haha you are #2 Jul 16 09:51:49 :P Jul 16 09:52:17 cool page Jul 16 09:52:30 good to see other people from chicago, maybe we can have a local hackathon :) Jul 16 09:52:40 CM, im not there. . :-( Jul 16 09:52:42 ? Jul 16 09:52:45 jrockway: Look at http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/OpenMoko_Local_Groups Jul 16 09:53:03 codyl: It's a wiki. If you've ordered one, add yourself at the bottom :) Jul 16 09:53:59 CM, i thought it was generated - no wonders its small Jul 16 09:54:17 You guys are making me jelous again, I want a neo advanced :( Jul 16 09:54:23 codyl: Heh, no. It's not official in any way. (I made it :P) Jul 16 09:54:29 s/jel/jeal/ Jul 16 09:54:29 ewanm89_laptop meant: You guys are making me jealous again, I want a neo advanced :( Jul 16 09:57:27 jeddy3 y: officaly counts - someone from FIC has commented? Jul 16 09:57:44 does FIC make any other phones right now? Jul 16 09:57:47 yes. Jul 16 09:57:51 No OM ones. Jul 16 09:57:59 SpeedEvil: Only roh saying that he didn't have a clue about the shipping Jul 16 09:58:10 SpeedEvil, I thought they had quite a few ODM's Jul 16 09:58:22 SpeedEvil, nothing official i think Jul 16 09:58:30 SpeedEvil: Oh, you mean the 0.7? That rohs numbers too, but still just an estimate Jul 16 09:58:34 Just wondering where you got the 0.7 Jul 16 09:59:02 SpeedEvil: gaping hole somewhere perhaps? Jul 16 09:59:15 SpeedEvil: Monday last week he said that only 250 out of 350 tickets were actual orders Jul 16 09:59:23 Ah. Jul 16 09:59:24 Oh, there's some backing to it. Damn, ruined my delayed joke. Jul 16 09:59:26 Missed that Jul 16 09:59:33 :P Jul 16 09:59:48 only having had 3hrs sleep is lagging me out somewhat Jul 16 10:00:35 * SpeedEvil hooks up a caffine drip to Stephmw. Jul 16 10:00:45 ah yes, their other phone has a "Cute & Lovely Hands free Doll" Jul 16 10:00:47 * jrockway wants. Jul 16 10:01:06 if it was just lovely that would break the deal... but Cute *and* Lovely... Jul 16 10:01:18 Hands free though, like lap-dancers. Jul 16 10:03:45 i think the US-based cell phone companies should advertise in the same way Jul 16 10:03:50 "cute & lovely vendor lock in" Jul 16 10:04:00 "mega-bazooka pay $5 to download your pictures" Jul 16 10:04:01 etc. Jul 16 10:04:19 http://www.fic.com.tw/product/gt118.aspx # page in question Jul 16 10:13:39 hi there, wanna ask how long will it be shipped to Shanghai? From the FAQ, I see it was produced in SuZhou, only 100miles away from... Jul 16 10:14:35 pomelo I guess everything will be send to the us first Jul 16 10:14:57 Sounds like it. Jul 16 10:16:23 thanks kristian, another thing is about if there is possible to upgrade when phase 2 comes out? really needs WIFI module. Jul 16 10:18:15 I'd imagine the normal upgrade path is to buy a phase 2 phone. Jul 16 10:19:16 pomelo: It has been asked whether it would be possible just to buy the new mainboard. Jul 16 10:19:33 so it will take another several months hopefully Jul 16 10:19:37 looking forward to having wifi Jul 16 10:19:53 my work wireless requires the use of a VPN client, so most everything is useless Jul 16 10:20:03 but vpnc works fine, and i imagine that it will work fine on the neo Jul 16 10:20:23 (incidentally, for the same reason, people with windows mobile can't use exchange from their phones. hilarious.) Jul 16 10:22:08 jrockway: openemmbed alreaded include vpnc bitbake recipe. Jul 16 10:22:30 s/ed/edded Jul 16 10:22:35 and also hope the team will upgrade their processor Jul 16 10:23:10 will be cool if implement pxa modes Jul 16 10:25:20 jrockway depends windows mobile has vpn features Jul 16 10:25:43 the only question is if the vendor pays for this feature Jul 16 10:26:39 So it costs more, what a suprise. Jul 16 10:31:24 All it requires: http://rafb.net/p/visKr250.html Jul 16 10:31:37 And to know how to edit the file. Jul 16 10:31:59 No money required just to get vpnc installed. Jul 16 10:37:12 what time/day is it in USA now? Jul 16 10:37:22 google? Jul 16 10:37:31 1:37am - 6:37am Jul 16 10:37:32 we are just about to end the 16th Jul 16 10:38:18 11:38am, 16/7/2007 here in Ireland :) Jul 16 10:39:42 Psi: google:time in New York Jul 16 10:41:10 !google time in new york Jul 16 10:41:11 New York, New York, US -- Current local time: 6:41 AM on Monday, July 16 @ Jul 16 10:41:12 http://www.google.com%20

Time%20(Shi%20gan)%20showtimes%20for%20New%20York,%20NY
1hr%2037min%20-%20Drama | Images @ http://images.google.com/images?um=1 | Jul 16 10:41:13 Current local time in New York - New @ http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/city.html?n=179%20class=l Jul 16 10:41:25 !spam Jul 16 11:06:43 someone needs to update their google script ^ Jul 16 11:35:26 Crap.. Getting the 300s flashing timeout bug again :( Jul 16 11:36:37 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Booting_from_SD]] [[Binary_compatibility]] [[Battery]] [[Wish_List_-_Hardware_-_Atmospheric]] [[Wishlist:Camera]] [[Wishlist:Expansion_Protocols]] [[Wishlist:Expansion_Front]] [[Wishlist:Expansion_Back]] [[Wishlist:Expansion]] [[Wishlist:Accessories]] and other changes Jul 16 11:37:29 if the mokomakefile build process fails due to a do_fetch, issuing the build command again resumes the process, right? Jul 16 11:38:08 it's the third time do_fetch failed today... :) Jul 16 11:38:36 I could sue my ISP... hmm >:] Jul 16 11:38:50 It's usually just to restart Jul 16 11:39:02 Not sure it will do it in the same order every time though Jul 16 11:39:10 I see Jul 16 11:39:37 but won't recompile from scratch, right? Jul 16 11:40:02 No, only if you do "make clobber" so it removes everything Jul 16 11:52:54 say I want to develop applications for the neo - how stable is the architecture behind the apps.. will it change much? Jul 16 11:55:28 what sort of applications? Jul 16 11:55:41 The core - GTK + X is unlikely to change. Jul 16 11:56:04 andylockran: let me guess: since the developer neo is now available, openmoko.org wants people to develop their own apps, so the API is probably not going to be changed too much. Jul 16 11:56:38 The API may change - worst case if they go in a direction the community doesn't like, it can be forked. Jul 16 11:56:56 Don't like OM - fork off. Jul 16 11:57:27 Forex, there are some libraries with substantial shared functionality that are present. Jul 16 11:57:56 Someone might well submit patches to any core applications that use them to enable the platform to have one of them deleted. Jul 16 12:00:37 hehe.. :p Jul 16 12:01:27 man, I'm spending my time checking here for latest news on shipping rather than working.. Jul 16 12:01:54 is there a community planet for openmoko community members, rather than just the official planet ? Jul 16 12:06:30 andylockran: no, i don't think so. perhaps someone should create an unofficial one? Jul 16 12:06:58 i thought openmoko.org *is* the community Jul 16 12:07:06 aevin - yeah, do you reckon openmoko.org will give us another subdomain? Jul 16 12:07:13 users.openmoko.org Jul 16 12:07:28 andylockran: i have no idea. Jul 16 12:07:47 I agree with tuukkah, given the Wiki what is there that you want to do that you can't already? Jul 16 12:08:03 becuase there's lots of interesting stuff being blogged about now Jul 16 12:09:26 andylockran: yes, it could be interesting to read about peoples private openmoko hacking (which is not directly suited to publish on any of the MLs or perhaps the wiki(?)) Jul 16 12:09:58 Okay so put together a Wiki page that has a list of everyone's RSS feeds? Jul 16 12:10:12 jgm - yeah, but that's not as tidy as an aggregator Jul 16 12:10:28 but OTOH spreading the channels for OM info could be unwise, as we've already got the wiki, a number of MLs and this IRC channel. Jul 16 12:10:46 yeah, that's also true Jul 16 12:10:59 well, perhaps we just wait til planet.openmoko.org opens up :) Jul 16 12:11:06 Yeah but it takes a lot less effort, plus surely there is some third-party aggregator out there? Jul 16 12:12:24 andylockran: there's potentially hundreds of interesting community blogs but it is very unlikely that everybody want's to read all the posts. A Wiki-Page with entries and brief descriptions of blogs is IMHO a better way to spread the info. Jul 16 12:12:33 I guess interesting blogs will be linked to planet.openmoko ? Jul 16 12:12:52 Kero: I *think* that planet.openmoko is only 'official' blogs so not necessarily Jul 16 12:12:57 if everyone can write on it, there will be too much useless info, I fear... Jul 16 12:13:16 but hey, I plan to write on http://chmeee.dyndns.org/rambling/blog.srb?author=Kero Jul 16 12:13:30 (and no, you can not make your own blog there :) Jul 16 12:14:17 I've got an aggregator at www.whatisfloss.co.uk - if anyone wants me to put their blog up there Jul 16 12:14:22 all the people on the planet.openmoko.org atm is either insiders or P0 devs, right? Jul 16 12:14:32 aevin: that's what i thought Jul 16 12:16:13 i think it would be best to have a separate channel for unofficial postings, which is pretty much open for anyone to join (thus you'll have to read it with a more tight filter, if you like), but should somehow be hooked up with a link from the wiki or something (clearly marked as unofficial blog postings) Jul 16 12:17:27 yeah Jul 16 12:17:30 but i dunno :-) Jul 16 12:22:56 btw the "Can I has a Neo? I has break my phone" on the planet is (still) quite funny. haha. Jul 16 12:25:28 aevin, that sound funny Jul 16 12:25:29 url? Jul 16 12:26:55 oh haha Jul 16 12:32:52 * SpeedEvil wishes glenn on the wiki could be flagged as a bot. Jul 16 12:33:28 Currently spamming recent changes - though in a good cause. Jul 16 12:33:57 SpeedEvil: I noticed that to, tagging a lot of pages Jul 16 12:34:42 SpeedEvil: i thought he was spamming the wiki without a cause too, but realised he actually did add something useful. Jul 16 12:34:53 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/External_Feeds - list of feeds for external blogs Jul 16 12:38:35 Conflict resolution on the wiki sucks. There should be a 'stomp these changes' button. Jul 16 12:38:50 I hit some conflicts with myself that is. Jul 16 12:45:46 what's the command to get gcc3 on ubuntu? Jul 16 12:45:54 apt-get install gcc...? Jul 16 12:46:19 -3.3 or -3.4 Jul 16 12:47:17 ok, thanks Jul 16 12:50:43 perhaps we should consider openmoko.org to be the software and openmoko.com to be the hardware Jul 16 12:51:35 or what's the logic? Jul 16 12:52:49 My view: Openmoko.com is the website of Openmoko Inc. the legal entity behind the Openmoko project. Openmoko.org is the community website of the openmoko project. Jul 16 12:53:31 Openmoko being the software-stack. FIC is the manufacturer of the first phone (Neo1973) running Openmoko. Jul 16 12:53:35 in that case the official planet should be planet.openmoko.com, and planet.openmoko.org should be open to community members Jul 16 12:56:00 tuukkah: I agree with your idea.. planet.com for the officials... Jul 16 13:11:56 Gah - why did I leave it so long to sort the Wish List thing. Jul 16 13:12:08 SpeedEvil: Wish List Jul 16 13:12:10 ? Jul 16 13:12:22 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Wish_List Jul 16 13:12:38 Rather random - though less random than it was a couple of hours ago. Jul 16 13:37:17 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Wish_List]] [[Category:Hardware]] [[Category:Wishlist]] [[Category:Requires_accelerometer]] [[Wishlist:Computer_Mouse]] [[Hammerhead/Protocol]] [[OpenMoko:Community_Portal]] [[Binary_compatibility]] [[Battery]] [[Wishlist:Distance_tracker]] and other changes Jul 16 13:40:47 wow.. #openmoko has actually gone quiet :p Jul 16 13:41:20 it's the anticipation ;) Jul 16 13:41:24 in anticipation Jul 16 13:41:25 echo :) Jul 16 13:41:27 :D Jul 16 13:42:42 * ar1 hello to all Jul 16 13:43:08 a question.. Jul 16 13:43:09 someone is from fic here? Jul 16 13:43:35 or.. from openmoko.com Jul 16 13:45:01 some are, not sure about them being awake Jul 16 13:45:15 ar1: it's really just easier for you to ask your question :) Jul 16 13:45:17 I'm awake Jul 16 13:45:18 now Jul 16 13:45:23 Stephmw, indeed Jul 16 13:46:25 Stephmw: i want to become in sales representative ;) Jul 16 13:46:49 oh, well, that probably does require FIC guy access :] Jul 16 13:47:04 you know in its current state it's only good for developers and hardcore geeks? Jul 16 13:47:06 haha Jul 16 13:47:19 yes Jul 16 13:47:21 ar1: for which region, out of interest? :) Jul 16 13:47:29 latin america Jul 16 13:47:49 venezuela,colombia,ecuador perú Jul 16 13:47:57 * Stephmw nods Jul 16 13:49:01 andes region Jul 16 13:49:09 «region andina» Jul 16 13:49:18 :-D Jul 16 13:50:44 Stephmw: and i want to know, what can i do, and what have i do Jul 16 13:50:49 ;) Jul 16 13:51:11 I understand - emailing them direct (in addition to lurking here) is a good idea Jul 16 13:51:34 ar1: mostly you need patience right now Jul 16 13:51:48 Sigh. Now I guess I need to link all the 'wish list' stuff that has application pages. Jul 16 13:51:50 but if you can program, you can help ;) Jul 16 13:52:03 If you can supply accurate bug reports, you can help. Jul 16 13:52:22 If you can stop random people in the street, and enthuse about the project, you can help. Jul 16 13:53:26 yeah, I've just blogged about it mainly thus far.. and am starting to learn about programming the beast Jul 16 13:54:23 yes i know, but if .. i start to working about the formalities.. ;) Jul 16 13:54:39 here the people are very interested... Jul 16 13:54:46 and i'm very interesyed too Jul 16 13:54:49 ok, where's my device! Jul 16 13:55:08 interesyed/interested Jul 16 13:56:00 * SpeedEvil holds up an accurate clay model, with a fake screen, in a taunting manner at ScaredyCat. Jul 16 13:56:19 is openmoko planning on using the same ordering system for GTA02 they used for GTA01? e.g. RT meltdown? Jul 16 13:56:28 I doubt it. Jul 16 13:56:28 * ScaredyCat is a little more than annoyed. Jul 16 13:56:43 If I didn't want one I'd not have fscking brought one...; Jul 16 13:56:48 It would have been done rather better if they asked the people here to beta test it - even for an hour. Jul 16 13:56:50 SpeedEvil: I hope so to. It put me off re-ordering my "lost" GTA01 order Jul 16 13:56:55 s/to/too/ Jul 16 13:56:55 ewon meant: SpeedEvil: I hope so too. It put me off re-ordering my "lost" GTA01 order Jul 16 13:56:58 * ScaredyCat just returned from a weekednd away to discover email Jul 16 13:58:04 SpeedEvil: you been working on backpacks? Jul 16 13:58:27 ScaredyCat: i'm helping... i'm traslating some things to the spanish... i'm Aw Jul 16 13:58:31 Arw ;) Jul 16 13:58:41 from the wiki Jul 16 13:59:10 ScaredyCat? Jul 16 13:59:20 Oh - no. Jul 16 13:59:26 Well - slightly. Jul 16 13:59:36 I've been working on wiki, and actual solder-together-hardware. Jul 16 13:59:40 I'm trying to add multi user support to openmoko. Jul 16 14:00:46 ewanm89_laptop: multi-user? - there a wiki page I can read on your work? Jul 16 14:02:15 ewan: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Wish_List#User_Profiles Jul 16 14:02:33 Slightly relevant. Jul 16 14:03:59 is there anyway to hook up a second screen to the neo? Jul 16 14:04:42 I read something about being able to plu psp screen in. Jul 16 14:05:04 i want to mod a DS to hold it Jul 16 14:06:28 there's no way to add a 2nd screen to neo Jul 16 14:07:03 damn, i wanted a dual screen neo Jul 16 14:07:22 and it would have game buttons Jul 16 14:07:29 I want a 21" neo with widescreen, HD ready and bluray Jul 16 14:07:51 thomasg_: right. but it has to weight at most 4oz. Jul 16 14:08:00 ofcourse Jul 16 14:08:02 definately Jul 16 14:08:20 and we must be able to fold it down to 3" Jul 16 14:08:29 and it has to have 7.1 Jul 16 14:08:36 surround sound Jul 16 14:08:56 SpeedEvil: Thanks, must of missed it myself. Jul 16 14:10:02 could i hook up a second screen if i had a debugging bored? Jul 16 14:10:18 SpeedEvil: At the moment I'm getting the basic framework there so it's not root by default. Jul 16 14:10:33 ewanm89_laptop: prolly a good plan. Jul 16 14:12:21 SpeedEvil: The standard 'nix users and groups can handle most of it. Jul 16 14:12:31 Password protect uboot, and bingo. Jul 16 14:12:48 Pretty much. Jul 16 14:12:55 Apart from JTAG Jul 16 14:13:08 So I now got sudo installed, and shadowfile support for busybox. Jul 16 14:13:31 SpeedEvil: or mounting the drive on another machine Jul 16 14:13:48 Mounting the NAND in another machine is non-trivial. Jul 16 14:13:54 SpeedEvil: JTAG is going to be difficult whatever you do, at least I can get the basics there. Jul 16 14:14:42 SpeedEvil: I was under the impression that it could be mounted as a usb mass storage device. maybe I'm mistaken.. Jul 16 14:14:48 I got sudo support, and shadow password support for busybox, plus passwd, adduser, addgroup. Jul 16 14:15:01 Qwell: that can't happen if you want it secure though. Jul 16 14:15:29 Qwell: someone being able to plug in their laptop to your phone and trojan it without any password = bad. Jul 16 14:15:51 Now, do you know where the config files are? Jul 16 14:15:58 Nope. Jul 16 14:16:02 In oe/om trees. Jul 16 14:17:54 SpeedEvil: I was thinking of creating an openmoko default user for now. Jul 16 14:20:16 ewanm89_laptop: yeah - that makes sense - the full user managment is way out in the future. Jul 16 14:21:10 mornin' party people Jul 16 14:21:22 * SpeedEvil vomits over untwisted. Jul 16 14:21:30 thanks Jul 16 14:21:38 * SpeedEvil tries to clean it up with a puppy. Jul 16 14:21:49 * untwisted keeps the puppy. Jul 16 14:22:01 SpeedEvil: But it will pretty much be the geek profile. Jul 16 14:22:24 ideally an app to set these settings on first boot. Jul 16 14:22:56 straight after touchscreen calibration. Jul 16 14:25:54 SpeedEvil: Could these be put into the openmoko side by default, rather than patching them across from openembedded? Jul 16 14:31:10 they should have made the reply message: Jul 16 14:31:31 I_AM_NOT_A_RETARD_I_KNOW_WHAT_I_FSCKING_ORDERED Jul 16 14:32:15 * ewanm89_laptop knows what he has ordered, he can't order a neo :( Jul 16 14:32:23 ewanm89_laptop: duno. Jul 16 14:32:49 ScaredyCat: To be fair. If someone was direct-linked to that page, there were rather too few caveats. Jul 16 14:33:20 what's the most efficient scripting language for use on the openmoko? Jul 16 14:33:55 ya, I understand that some people didn't know, I guess I'm annoyed at the fact that I was away so didn't get hte email until now. So if demand is too high I'll miss out on this batch... Jul 16 14:34:12 This is a bit of an adventurous quest, but I was going to run http://chaos.zrmt.com on the neo to see how fast it ran it. What language would it best be done in? (currently javascript) Jul 16 14:34:29 There is no JS at the moment - no browser Jul 16 14:34:38 ScaredyCat: They're not supposed to start shipping before today anyway Jul 16 14:34:54 and as far as I'm concerned, I've waited longer than I expected anyway... Jul 16 14:35:15 ya, CM - but if they process in the order the got the I_DO replies... Jul 16 14:35:34 * ScaredyCat would be last :( Jul 16 14:36:43 ScaredyCat: Some of us can't physically order, at least you'll get one :( Jul 16 14:37:41 I'll rent you mine ewanm89_laptop ;) Jul 16 14:37:57 The implied 1200 phones ordered leaves only a small number of dropouts needed to get back under 1K Jul 16 14:38:13 I do hope they've kicked off the next K though. Jul 16 14:38:54 ScaredyCat: I want my own, but I got nasty parents, and my bank account is just nasty, hopefully I'll have a new account in the coming weeks. Jul 16 14:39:13 ewanm89_laptop: camboy! Jul 16 14:39:24 Does amazon do wishlists for the neo? :) Jul 16 14:39:26 ? Jul 16 14:39:31 ewanm89_laptop: I sold my soul to the devil... Jul 16 14:40:33 If Jul 16 14:40:33 ScaredyCat: How old are you? Jul 16 14:40:34 If Jul 16 14:41:05 38... so not long left ;) Jul 16 14:41:05 oops - accidentally secured keyb Jul 16 14:41:18 SpeedEvil: You? Jul 16 14:41:21 the ticket-tracking-madhouse-ordering-system has put me off ordering a GTA01 Jul 16 14:41:34 seriously, such a system can not be exposed to Joe Public Jul 16 14:41:56 * SpeedEvil is 30. Jul 16 14:42:01 aka digg Jul 16 14:42:05 that's fine. GTA01 isn't for joe public Jul 16 14:42:29 but yes, one would hope that the process streamlines before GTA02 Jul 16 14:42:30 obviously Jul 16 14:42:30 It shouldn't be exposed to Mike Developer that you don't want to piss off. Jul 16 14:42:40 agreed. Jul 16 14:43:03 So don't show RMS the system? Jul 16 14:43:28 using a ticket-tracking system for such a task seems a bit insane Jul 16 14:43:40 I guess the answer is get the ordering system sorted before you go live with it Jul 16 14:44:18 I know a company that does large online ordering systems; I've pinged the CTO (a guy I know) and told him to get in touch with openmoko Jul 16 14:44:58 * ewanm89_laptop must be one of the youngest at 18. Jul 16 14:45:02 * ewon is 24 Jul 16 14:46:10 * SpeedEvil ponders an OM dating app. Jul 16 14:46:28 ewon: In a perfect world, FIC would have 10 people putting up a nice webshop, processing orders and whatnot... Jul 16 14:46:37 Automatic profile matching via Bluetooth :) Jul 16 14:46:43 Kensan: there are any number of easy-to-use web-stores. Jul 16 14:46:43 * CM is of the fine 1979 vintage Jul 16 14:46:48 os commerce isn't that hard to setup Jul 16 14:46:58 SpeedEvil: yes, if you have the time. Jul 16 14:47:09 but plain osc is sort of.. feature-less Jul 16 14:47:10 It's quicker than hacking one together. Jul 16 14:47:10 :| Jul 16 14:47:14 SpeedEvil: it seems that Laf0rge had to take care of it last minute. Jul 16 14:47:21 So I would cut them some slack. Jul 16 14:47:31 phrozen77_: ture, but it'd work for what they wanted... Jul 16 14:47:31 Hell - even ebay, BIN, with a quantity of 1000. Jul 16 14:47:41 it's not LaForge's fault Jul 16 14:48:13 s/ture/true/ Jul 16 14:48:14 ScaredyCat meant: phrozen77_: true, but it'd work for what they wanted... Jul 16 14:48:20 ewon: no it's not. It's the inadequate amount of competente people in the openmoko core team -> too much work for the size of the team. Jul 16 14:48:34 lol @ the apt-bot :P Jul 16 14:48:35 they're doing a good job... given the small size of the team Jul 16 14:49:05 IMHO it's insane what that team has put together in this timeframe... Jul 16 14:49:25 if i were to ship 1000 pieces of stuff off UPS... I think it'll take me forever Jul 16 14:49:40 cninja: it's really not that bad. Jul 16 14:50:08 cninja: you print off the labels, check that each address looks sane, jam the thing into the appropriate envelope, and done. Jul 16 14:50:11 true... i can't wait to get my hands on the phones too Jul 16 14:50:22 If you take a minute per item, you're doing it wrong. Jul 16 14:50:22 heh, i run an online shop myself Jul 16 14:50:42 * SpeedEvil has too in the past. Jul 16 14:50:43 it's really pain in the butt to manage even 100 items :) Jul 16 14:50:55 However. Jul 16 14:51:03 With a thousand, you tell UPS to come and get them. Jul 16 14:51:38 they're shipping them today right? Jul 16 14:51:46 Maybe. Jul 16 14:51:46 hah Jul 16 14:51:51 awww Jul 16 14:52:04 cninja: that's some good optimism ya got there Jul 16 14:52:46 i wish they can just UPS right from Suzhou/China.... Dell does this right? Jul 16 14:53:13 anyone know if GTA02 will ship from California as well? Jul 16 14:53:22 hi Jul 16 14:53:24 I hope not. Jul 16 14:53:27 Welcome! Jul 16 14:54:05 SpeedEvil: given I'll be living in California when GTA02 is released, I sincerely hope it is :) Jul 16 14:54:31 Or at least I hope they don't use the same shipping method. Jul 16 14:54:36 $80 to ship to UK is insane. Jul 16 14:55:39 That tops $600 - for the basic model - after taxes. Jul 16 14:55:56 * Stephmw passes on the $extortionate shipping charges. Jul 16 14:56:37 yeah, but what's 600 Jul 16 14:56:47 re Jul 16 14:56:56 Taxes? Jul 16 14:57:09 s/yeah, but what's 600/Yeah, but what's $600 these days, 35p ? ;) Jul 16 14:57:36 SpeedEvil: is there tax on the shipping fee as well? Jul 16 14:59:25 certainly if you were importing into ireland, you'd pay duty on the shipping fee Jul 16 14:59:39 mafeu: As I've read it - in the import regulations. Jul 16 14:59:54 Oh crap. Jul 16 15:00:00 You pay VAT - in theory - on the portion of the shipping that happens within ght eEU. Jul 16 15:00:03 I belive it's only VAT in the UK @ 17.5 % Jul 16 15:00:22 In practice who knows. Jul 16 15:02:26 win 20 Jul 16 15:02:28 doh Jul 16 15:03:21 Shipping and taxes will make my neo (300 + 77) +1.19 ~ 450$! Well, at least the sum in € will sound less painfull. Jul 16 15:03:34 ..but anyway... still no news on if they are actually processing orders today or not, if sutff has got through customs or not... ? Jul 16 15:03:48 * mmazur not in the euro zone :( Jul 16 15:03:58 Me no likie taxes. Jul 16 15:04:13 mafeu: not +1.19 Jul 16 15:04:24 x 1.195 Jul 16 15:04:37 no news :( Jul 16 15:05:40 .. it's like there's this company that makes communications devices, but doesn't know how to communicate Jul 16 15:05:41 :) Jul 16 15:06:17 still, at least I had a weekend in london Jul 16 15:06:58 customs authority in austria told me: (450$ (advanced)+ 172$ (shipping)) x 1,20 (20% tax)= 746,4 $ :(( Jul 16 15:07:18 Ouch. Jul 16 15:07:22 cel_: do they do it for *all* packages Jul 16 15:07:39 I kno win the uk, some get through without being charged Jul 16 15:07:42 huhu Jul 16 15:07:54 it's just the luck of the draw Jul 16 15:08:00 te Jul 16 15:08:12 conics.net, when they ship a zaurus into the US, they say it's a $100 translator to avoid customs Jul 16 15:08:36 but that's fraud Jul 16 15:08:37 they said i have to pay tax on shipping Jul 16 15:09:17 its a pain in the ass Jul 16 15:09:19 ScaredyCat: is it? I don't know... That's just what I've heard Jul 16 15:09:25 It is. Jul 16 15:09:26 aud is quite weak though cel_ , no? Jul 16 15:09:35 In principle the US could in fact prosecute on that. Jul 16 15:09:49 And get any US assets of the corp in question. Jul 16 15:09:57 As it's knowing fraud. Jul 16 15:10:16 i live in austria europe maybe ist different in ohter countrys Jul 16 15:10:19 is it possible to say when openmoko will use the up to date revisions of openembedded? Jul 16 15:10:21 oooo... aud ~= usd Jul 16 15:10:26 SpeedEvil: ah... hrm. Well, I should probably not buy from them in the future then... Never bought from them in the past, as I found out about them after I purchased Jul 16 15:10:39 summatusmentis: It's not your problem. Jul 16 15:10:48 summatusmentis: unless it gets broken in shipment. Jul 16 15:11:00 In which case the insurance would generally pay back $100 Jul 16 15:11:25 mm.. well, I guess that's good to know.. not supporting knowing fraud and all that Jul 16 15:11:26 s/ohter/other Jul 16 15:11:46 * summatusmentis leaves Jul 16 15:12:00 Tehy may not have thought it through, and simply be acting on consumer requests. Jul 16 15:12:13 sorry cel_ - thought you said australia .... Jul 16 15:12:14 what's the name of the german openmoko irc channel Jul 16 15:12:16 ? Jul 16 15:12:17 * ScaredyCat slaps self Jul 16 15:12:21 #openmoko-de? Jul 16 15:12:29 lol Jul 16 15:12:32 SpeedEvil:ist possible Jul 16 15:13:53 are there any updates to the shipment status? Jul 16 15:14:07 No. Jul 16 15:14:14 or will OM always use that fixed revision? Jul 16 15:16:38 At one point OM was thought to be moving too fast. Jul 16 15:17:36 So it's probably safe to say that it will move to more recent versions in the future. If it'll ever track the current version is anohter question. Jul 16 15:17:55 I'm ord 3169, really hoping that '1000 units and 0.7 coefficient for tickets/orders and tickets start at 1800' thing pans out... Jul 16 15:18:21 riot: where is the german chan gone? Jul 16 15:26:55 would it be wrong to suggest they'd taken over the Polish channel? Jul 16 15:27:19 TimRiker: hey Jul 16 15:27:51 moin Jul 16 15:28:23 TimRiker: I've been meaning to ask.. Do all these bots (apt, jbot, etc) share a database? Jul 16 15:28:23 Qwell[]: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (and also SH1_FAQ, Neo1973, Developer_preview and Neo1973_Hardware#GTA01Bv4 pages) (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) Jul 16 15:30:01 Qwell[]: yes. more to the point, they are all the same bot. ie: the same process. it multiconnects. so they share all the same in memory data too. Jul 16 15:30:10 neat Jul 16 15:31:17 back in the day... freenode could not offer the bot more channels than the default user limit without making it an ircop. I thought that was a Very Bad Idea so I implemented the multiconnect. Jul 16 15:31:39 How many channels is he in? O.o Jul 16 15:31:48 not the bot can actually be in a ton of channels, so I really could run it all under one nick, but I've not changed it. Jul 16 15:31:53 ~chaninfo Jul 16 15:31:53 I'm on 81 channels: #debian/770, #openmoko/339, #kde/311, #asterisk/275, #wowace/249, #idlerpg/203, #maemo/194, #oe/115, #wowi-lounge/112, ##essy/73, #bzflag/63, #handhelds/62, #wowwiki/62, #tomcat/61, #utah/53, #slug/49, #elive/43, #nslu2-linux/43, #openzaurus/42, #uclibc/40, #gllug/37, #htc-linux/35, #elinux/30, #edev/27, #norganna/27, #kierra/25, #brlcad/25, ... Jul 16 15:31:53 i've cached 3873 users, 2977 unique users, distributed over 81 channels. Jul 16 15:32:15 the default freenode limit is 20 per connection. Jul 16 15:32:19 can't believe #openmoko is > #kde Jul 16 15:32:21 Polish channel? Jul 16 15:32:23 Does it publish logs of those channels? Jul 16 15:32:28 ~logs Jul 16 15:32:29 from memory, logs is apt/ibot/infobot/jbot/purl all log daily to http://ibot.rikers.org// where channelname is html encoded ie: %23debian | lines that start with a space are not shown | some channels have stats at http://ibot.rikers.org/stats/.html.gz Jul 16 15:36:37 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Unresolved_Hardware_Questions]] [[Wish_List]] [[Category:Technical]] [[Category:Categories]] [[Talk:Mokopedia]] [[Media_Content]] [[Talk:OpenMoko_Local_Groups:_Berlin]] [[OpenMoko_Local_Groups:_NYC_Metro]] [[User_talk:JoSch]] [[OpenMoko_Local_Groups:_Washington_DC_Metro]] and other changes Jul 16 15:42:29 today the neos will shipped? Jul 16 15:42:38 * duffyd hopes so Jul 16 15:43:09 i hope the gta_02 release is soon :) Jul 16 15:43:16 The Ubuntu "Mobile and Embedded" Browser description is pretty interesting. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded/Browser Jul 16 15:43:19 Was one supposed to get a confirmation email after the YES_I_DO confirmation mail? Jul 16 15:43:26 Fatal: I hear no Jul 16 15:43:27 SpeedEvil, do you know yacy? (-->wwwoffle) Jul 16 15:43:28 only on CANCEL Jul 16 15:43:42 Qwell[]: ok, then hopefully my order is still in order :) Jul 16 15:44:12 minime - no. Jul 16 15:44:26 he minime Jul 16 15:44:27 minime: I've just used it for several years. Jul 16 15:44:44 minime: I have it setup to proxy all my web-access and copy it. Jul 16 15:44:48 (rant) radio silence for hardware production is understandable, its their business etc etc. but the same lack of updates after taking peoples' money is unreal. Jul 16 15:44:59 Searching that subset of the web is much more productive. Jul 16 15:45:07 Have they actually taken any money?> Jul 16 15:45:11 From anyones CC? Jul 16 15:45:22 I've not actually heard that. Jul 16 15:45:39 If they haven't, it's quite probable they will delay shipping till after requesting payment. Jul 16 15:45:44 SpeedEvil: i suppose there is a distinction, but having the CC and the authorization to charge the card is close. Jul 16 15:45:53 True. Jul 16 15:46:10 SpeedEvil: yes that would help, no charges until its actually shipped to customers. Jul 16 15:47:20 what im most concerned with is the phones might be held up in taiwan/chinese/us customs, with the potential of not even making it to Frement, CA and they are sitting on that information. Jul 16 15:48:34 They've been impounded due to suspected ITAR violations after I mentioned it on the wiki. Oh no, it's all my fault! Jul 16 15:49:09 Who mentioned the 16th anyway - I'm sure I've asked this before. Jul 16 15:49:13 SpeedEvil: you serious? Jul 16 15:49:47 Oh - tis on wiki. Jul 16 15:49:50 duffyd: no. Jul 16 15:49:57 Anyone here an IT guy that may be able to help out a fellow server admin? Jul 16 15:50:09 http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2007-July/006633.html Jul 16 15:50:09 lol Jul 16 15:50:10 SpeedEvil: phew Jul 16 15:50:16 untwisted for a beer? Jul 16 15:50:25 SpeedEvil: my best evidence for suspicion is the lack of FCCID Jul 16 15:50:26 untwisted: make that a German lager ;-) Jul 16 15:50:42 it's 8:49am in fremont now Jul 16 15:50:52 so they have plenty of time to ship today Jul 16 15:50:57 hehe Jul 16 15:51:00 happycube: horatio! Jul 16 15:51:07 happycube: heehee Jul 16 15:51:18 woglinde, duffyd: I'd be more than happy to have a beer with ya, but right now I have to convince the building managers that turning the air off over the weekend is a BAD idea for the servers... Jul 16 15:51:33 untwisted: oh no! Jul 16 15:51:42 untwisted and that should we tell him? Jul 16 15:52:11 untwisted: I can relate :-( Jul 16 15:52:15 You guys know where I can find a document with specs on server room temps? Also maybe some documented cases of server meltdown? They want proof that it needs to be on, but I don't have my Cisco cirriculum login info anymore. Jul 16 15:52:40 untwisted depends an on the servers Jul 16 15:52:50 and the room size Jul 16 15:52:55 duffyd: Ya know, they hire you for a job and then tell you "no" when you try to do it properly. In 3 months when the server explodes they're going to come running to me complaining that I should've done something about it. Jul 16 15:52:58 windows Jul 16 15:52:59 with all the eqipment in a server room, if the ac's turned off it tends to reach 90+f in there and above the maximum rated operating temp Jul 16 15:53:01 and so on Jul 16 15:53:02 ouch Jul 16 15:53:15 how hot is it down there? Jul 16 15:53:18 it was 92F in here over the weekend Jul 16 15:53:43 it won't fry the equipment in 3 months but it will probably cut the lifespan by about half? Jul 16 15:53:50 untwisted: Why the hell do they need to turn it off? Jul 16 15:54:08 save energy, help with global warming they say Jul 16 15:54:17 tell them that the servers should be shut off then Jul 16 15:54:21 yeah Jul 16 15:54:27 no ac, no servers Jul 16 15:54:30 is the server room AC not seperate from the building AC? Jul 16 15:54:58 Nope :-/ this is probably the least optimal setup EVER. Jul 16 15:55:00 untwisted: does practicality come into this anywhere? Mad! Jul 16 15:55:20 Seriously, when I started here I almost puked on the guy who set this up Jul 16 15:55:23 untwisted: that's why I try to stay away from sys admin stuff :-( Jul 16 15:55:30 but because of all the red tape I've been able to do next to nothing to fix it Jul 16 15:55:38 It'll be better to by a solar/wind/battery setup and run it off that. Jul 16 15:55:49 untwisted: google 'computer reliability ambient temperature' that should turn up lots. Jul 16 15:56:02 ooh, thanks, good terms :) Jul 16 15:56:21 i find businesses are hugely wasteful when it comes to electricity. Jul 16 15:56:28 cool a whole building just to reach one room? Jul 16 15:56:31 untwisted: Just tell them the server would automatically shutdown when it gets that hot. Jul 16 15:56:41 " Jul 16 15:56:43 It is a generally agreed upon standard in the computer industry that expensive IT equipment should not be operated in a computer room or data center where the ambient room temperature has exceeded 85°F (30°C)." Jul 16 15:56:47 http://www.avtech.com/About/Articles/AVT/NA/All/-/DD-NN-AN-TN/Recommended_Computer_Room_Temperature_Humidity.htm Jul 16 15:56:49 it should be easy to justify a new unit for the server rooom. Jul 16 15:56:57 I did, they want some sort of documented proof... I told them I was trained for this, but I'm not a reputable source I guess. Jul 16 15:57:01 untwisted: sounds like my last job ;-) http://kokorice.org/blog/archive/2006/12/24/sysadmin-stresses Jul 16 15:58:17 untwisted: the first paragraph is the only relevant part here :-) Jul 16 15:58:27 yah Jul 16 15:58:38 this is good. I also found the IBM spec, it had some fancy graphs Jul 16 15:59:13 well, back to battling with them, thanks guys :) Jul 16 15:59:28 untwisted: hope you win! Jul 16 16:00:20 good luck Jul 16 16:05:45 Okay, I've put the chroot-image online - see http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Test_Openmoko_Emulation_with_chroot_image Jul 16 16:06:41 Where's it hosted? Jul 16 16:08:47 SpeedEvil here, at the TFH University in Berlin - we've got 100 Mb/s out Jul 16 16:09:04 gives good speed Jul 16 16:09:43 59.6K/s here. Jul 16 16:09:50 Which as I'm on a 512 link... Jul 16 16:09:56 :/ Jul 16 16:10:12 * ScaredyCat is getting 788K/s Jul 16 16:10:35 have fun - have to take a course now - bbl Jul 16 16:10:36 * SpeedEvil steals ScaredyCats link. Jul 16 16:10:40 WAve. Jul 16 16:11:27 * ScaredyCat has a nice connection at home... Jul 16 16:11:37 kristian-m: Users shouldn't be a problem under emulation either, but I'm working on it. Jul 16 16:12:26 Anypne have any idea where openmoko gets the default configuration options from? Jul 16 16:13:03 s/p/o/ Jul 16 16:13:03 ewanm89_laptop meant: Anyone have any idea where openmoko gets the default configuration options from? Jul 16 16:14:57 get Jul 16 16:15:04 oops, that was meant to say hey Jul 16 16:16:07 andylockran: Going to stay this time? Jul 16 16:16:18 I hope so.. Jul 16 16:16:25 lol Jul 16 16:16:26 irssi has messed me up too Jul 16 16:16:40 how can I reassign the channel number Jul 16 16:16:48 /win move Jul 16 16:16:59 /help win Jul 16 16:17:15 /use better IRC client Jul 16 16:17:25 cjb: irssi ftw Jul 16 16:17:26 andylockran: if you're running out of channel shortcut keys, http://cjb.ie/irssi.txt Jul 16 16:18:27 I haven't gone through 20 just yet. Jul 16 16:18:38 cjb_ie: wait, are you another cjb? Jul 16 16:18:43 this is getting ridiculous Jul 16 16:18:45 cjb: i do apologise. Jul 16 16:18:53 cjb_ie: there was a cjb_ here when I got here Jul 16 16:19:01 Hi there Jul 16 16:19:03 but he changed to nick to cbaird to avoid confusion Jul 16 16:19:04 o/ Jul 16 16:19:04 anyone younger than 18 here? Jul 16 16:19:20 how can I access windows 11 and 12? Jul 16 16:19:26 ewanm89_laptop, ??? Jul 16 16:19:28 alt+q Jul 16 16:19:30 alt+q Jul 16 16:19:37 alt+w Jul 16 16:19:41 * cjb used to use irssi, now uses ERC, much better. :) Jul 16 16:19:48 I was looking on the website, What is the debugboard? Jul 16 16:19:48 Uatec: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (and also SH1_FAQ, Neo1973, Developer_preview and Neo1973_Hardware#GTA01Bv4 pages) (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) Jul 16 16:19:48 cjb: hippy Jul 16 16:20:00 Uatec: what it says on the tin? Jul 16 16:20:08 heh Jul 16 16:20:18 Uatec: only useful for firmware developers. Jul 16 16:20:22 thanks alot for that :) Jul 16 16:20:25 ahh Jul 16 16:20:26 SiO2: I wondered whether I'm the youngest working on openmoko? Jul 16 16:20:31 lol, thanks aloril Jul 16 16:20:46 i wanna get one of these things, but i don't think that the debug board would be what i want Jul 16 16:21:22 Uatec: Most likely not. Jul 16 16:22:08 could i write apps on my PC and debug them using gdb on my PC? Jul 16 16:22:14 yes Jul 16 16:22:18 and could i debug them remotely on the device itself? Jul 16 16:22:26 ewanm89_laptop, why not. anyone has to be the youngest. but maybe in #openmokoe-devel is someone younger ;) Jul 16 16:22:31 i'm trying to build up a case to tell to my boss so he will get meo ne Jul 16 16:22:31 Uatec: You can put gdb on the device. Jul 16 16:22:37 Uatec: yes Jul 16 16:22:46 even though we're a microsoft developer :/ Jul 16 16:23:00 Uatec: practically, you can do most of the development on any unix desktop. Jul 16 16:23:19 interesting Jul 16 16:23:21 interesting indeed Jul 16 16:23:31 SiO2: Yeah, about time I added openmoko-devel to my autoconnect list. Jul 16 16:23:41 Uatec: it's pretty much X + GTK Jul 16 16:24:06 and it is actually a phone, right? Jul 16 16:24:25 yes, you can make calls with it Jul 16 16:24:33 yeah, but don't try putting your face to the screen... Jul 16 16:24:55 lol, good Jul 16 16:25:01 and it requires some development, a bit buggy in places. Jul 16 16:25:04 why not? Jul 16 16:25:09 pff, i'm developer, i'll live with that Jul 16 16:25:18 that's why it's in development phase, eh? Jul 16 16:25:38 you can't do anything with the UI Jul 16 16:26:03 use anyone openmokomakefile? i hav this problem http://nopaste.info/1eff3d2d6f.html Jul 16 16:26:05 What? why not? Jul 16 16:26:27 hmmm Jul 16 16:26:33 Uatec: because the UI is very raw Jul 16 16:26:34 +e Jul 16 16:26:42 Uatec: read the faq Jul 16 16:27:44 dooh i dont have no 15G free on my laptop Jul 16 16:28:15 SiO2: you need to create a simlink of include/asm/page.h from linux source to /usr/include/asm/page.h Jul 16 16:28:17 buz, get rid of all the pron, I had that problem too Jul 16 16:28:30 ewanm89_laptop, thx i'll try it Jul 16 16:28:37 no pr0n on the drive Jul 16 16:29:00 mostly it's just the drive being too small Jul 16 16:29:02 SiO2: You do have the linux source installed? Jul 16 16:29:03 60G Jul 16 16:29:14 ewanm89_laptop, yse, of course ;) Jul 16 16:29:32 SiO2: What distro? Jul 16 16:30:18 ewanm89_laptop, gentoo ;) Jul 16 16:30:33 SiO2: Then you definatly o ;) Jul 16 16:30:39 s/o/do/ Jul 16 16:30:39 ewanm89_laptop meant: SiO2: Then ydou definatly o ;) Jul 16 16:30:51 oops Jul 16 16:30:56 :) Jul 16 16:31:17 SiO2: So what kernel is it? Jul 16 16:32:41 2.6.21.6 Jul 16 16:33:03 gentoo-sources, vanilla? Jul 16 16:33:10 kristian-m: can you stick a md5sum on the wiki? Jul 16 16:33:11 vanilla Jul 16 16:33:16 2.6.22.1 vanilla here Jul 16 16:34:49 hmm, the GTA02 Jul 16 16:35:14 * ewon wonders why anyone would want a GLONASS receiver in the moko Jul 16 16:35:21 is the Red Army due to be a big customer? Jul 16 16:35:56 * Uatec wonders if it is worth waiting Jul 16 16:36:01 what's a glonass? Jul 16 16:36:03 ewon: better GPS coverage overall. hybrid receivers can use both at once for improved accuracy. Jul 16 16:36:49 Uatec: yes Jul 16 16:37:00 Uatec: unless you're going to write low-level code or enhance the UI Jul 16 16:37:08 also i think glonass has higher declination? the US system orbits at 55 degrees to the equatorial plane, so once you go past there, all the satellites are always south of you, which makes for crappy positioning. especially if you're driving north and your GPS is on the dashboard. Jul 16 16:37:30 ewanm89_laptop, thnx it works (when it doesn't break later ;) ) Jul 16 16:37:53 has anyone the openmoko runs on an htc? Jul 16 16:38:04 ewon: this is what you learn by talking to swedes at mapping conferences :-) Jul 16 16:38:34 SiO2: It will be better when the perl devs fix such an odd dependancy, most distros have a patch for it. Jul 16 16:39:36 hmm Jul 16 16:39:39 but i want one now Jul 16 16:40:49 cjb_ie: yes, but that's all pointless when half the world cannot see any GLONASS signals, as the russians have repositioned the whole thing to work better around Chechnya Jul 16 16:41:05 ewon: ah, i'd missed that bit. Jul 16 16:41:36 oh, that's a shame, it's only usb 1.1 and gprs, no 3g Jul 16 16:41:56 also, are there any receiver-on-a-chip like the hammerhead / sirf et al that go do GLONASS as well as GPS Jul 16 16:42:04 yes Jul 16 16:42:10 ah, not so bad so Jul 16 16:42:11 Javad JNScore Jul 16 16:42:15 but very expensive Jul 16 16:42:29 does anyone know if there a dbus conformance test suite anywhere? Jul 16 16:42:33 GLONASS is FDMA ... uses 12 different frequencies Jul 16 16:42:43 more complicated rf section Jul 16 16:42:44 I'm doing an independent implementation in CL and it would be a *bit* helpful Jul 16 16:42:48 ewon: AIUI - yes Jul 16 16:43:36 ewon: Or rather - single chip RF sections. Jul 16 16:44:14 GLONASS + GPS would mean more satellites. Jul 16 16:44:31 More satellites in view means better performance when there is limited view. Jul 16 16:45:43 Do you get any receipt after answering YES_I_DO ? Jul 16 16:45:52 NO_YOU_DONT Jul 16 16:45:56 heh Jul 16 16:45:57 heh Jul 16 16:45:58 thanks :) Jul 16 16:46:40 but supposedly you get an error if you do it wrong. Jul 16 16:48:06 ah, nice, sort of, heh Jul 16 16:48:42 WRT glonass, .ru has apparently committed to bringing the constellation fully operational by the end of 2008 (iirc) Jul 16 16:49:49 AZnd they've been actually launching new satellites recently. Jul 16 16:49:59 And IIRC made available the more precise code to users Jul 16 16:54:40 ckuethe, which constellation? Jul 16 16:57:15 The constellation of GLONASS satellites Jul 16 16:58:17 gps :) Jul 16 17:14:15 Has anyone received the P1 device yet? Jul 16 17:14:41 calamous: they say steve jobs did... ;-) Jul 16 17:14:46 lol Jul 16 17:14:49 lol Jul 16 17:15:45 Markinoko: I wonder if thats true what hes planning to rip off? (hopefully the ideology of free software) Jul 16 17:16:55 calamous: well, he already ripped off part of the ideas in seans presentation of the openmoko project... Jul 16 17:17:58 Markinoko: Wow, figures Jul 16 17:19:02 I guess he must have skipped the part about GPS though. huhuhu :-D Jul 16 17:19:33 Markinoko: Whats worse is he doesn't give attribution to it. (i.e. You know how on macs when you do admin work you need the password again, like sudo, my friend said apple claimed to invent that system dispite the fact that sudo has been around for years) Jul 16 17:19:36 I love my one friend. He got an iPhone and is like whee they're almost done cracking it so you can code on it Jul 16 17:19:49 The fact that he gave $600 to a company that *doesn't want him to do that* was lost upon him Jul 16 17:19:58 I'm waiting for the first OTA upgrade that breaks the cracks Jul 16 17:20:04 Markinoko: Yeah, a GPS would have been a good thing to include Jul 16 17:20:24 unknown_lamer: wow. thats cool. BTW is there java on the iPhone? Jul 16 17:20:35 calamous: no idea because I'm refusing to even look at one Jul 16 17:20:36 calamous: well, who cares... we have it Jul 16 17:20:44 yeah :) Jul 16 17:20:44 I am a free software nut, and apple is a good enemy now Jul 16 17:20:48 they shall be exterminated Jul 16 17:20:52 I agree Jul 16 17:21:03 they cover up their evil with pretty user interfaces Jul 16 17:21:06 I can get sume nukes on the black market Jul 16 17:21:31 I'm using ideas partially taken from hypercard and the newton to overthrow them Jul 16 17:21:49 unknown_lamer: free software is important. I have RMS's book "Free software, Free Society" and its really well-written powerful stuff Jul 16 17:21:56 Jobs killed all of the neat projects at Apple when he returned :-( Jul 16 17:22:02 Poor Dylan hackers all getting canned Jul 16 17:22:27 calamous: aye, RMS is very logical and has a good ethic. It is really depressing to see how people demonize him every day Jul 16 17:22:48 calamous: even stuff like GNU/Linux. He has a *very* valid point! Notice how there is now a Debian GNU/kFreeBSD Jul 16 17:22:58 unknown_lamer: exactly. I call it GNU/Linux too Jul 16 17:23:03 I just call it GNU Jul 16 17:23:08 the kernel doesn't matter much to me Jul 16 17:23:15 he has a point that if people call it "linux" people will forget about the philophy behind it Jul 16 17:23:20 and they have Jul 16 17:23:21 unknown_lamer: there will always be a big flame war going on between libre and open Jul 16 17:23:27 yeah Jul 16 17:23:35 and Gratis Jul 16 17:23:40 unknown_lamer: this is precisely why I don't discuss this anymore... Jul 16 17:23:41 people confuse free software with $0 cost Jul 16 17:23:42 Markinoko: until the open people drive themselves in the ground like the ai lab hackers who ditched for symbolics did Jul 16 17:24:05 a wolf like apple will eat their children Jul 16 17:24:26 calamous: agreed. the price in my opinion is not the issue Jul 16 17:24:34 calamous: yeah, I only write free software and I make enough to live from it :-) Jul 16 17:29:52 Hey, anyone here propose a project for gForge? Jul 16 17:30:20 untwisted: I'll have one as soon as I get my emulation working Jul 16 17:30:59 Markinoko: Did you actually make a proposal on the site, and how long did it take for the project to get accepted / rejected? Jul 16 17:31:32 I agree totally. I would pay more money to have libre software than freeware Jul 16 17:31:32 But unfortuately its going in the other directory. You can get commercial "linuxes" for $30, $50, $100 dollars that are the oppisite, they are loaded with non-free software Jul 16 17:31:32 Like the patent deal between novell and microsoft so novell can "include" stuff in suse that microsoft says they own Jul 16 17:31:37 One of my friends tried suse and said it looked pretty, but I said it was garbage and possibly the worst GNU/Linux out there Jul 16 17:31:44 untwisted: hum, no proposal yet. Still working on the idea Jul 16 17:31:46 But, I can not talk like a saint because my kernel is tainted. I do use the proprietary nVidia drivers :( Jul 16 17:31:50 Where are you guys from? Jul 16 17:31:58 france Jul 16 17:32:54 US :| Jul 16 17:34:01 untwisted: although the concept is here. I just need to check how feasible it is on the openmoko platform Jul 16 17:34:15 Markinoko: Whats the plan? Jul 16 17:34:36 untwisted: a framework to build simple OSC controlers Jul 16 17:34:53 Markinoko: OSC? Sorry, not familiar Jul 16 17:36:03 untwisted: sorry :-) Open Sound Control. a protocol to drive audio apps over the network. Jul 16 17:36:09 re Jul 16 17:36:16 sorry untwisted Jul 16 17:36:16 Markinoko: Oooh, very cool Jul 16 17:36:23 I had have to go Jul 16 17:36:30 untwisted: I'm originally more a member of the linux audio community. openmoko is new to me Jul 16 17:36:36 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[OpenMoko_Wiki_Editing_Guidelines]] [[Building_a_hello_world_application]] [[Hammerhead/Protocol]] [[Gpsd]] [[Main_Page/fr]] [[Wish_List]] [[Talk:Test_Openmoko_Emulation_with_chroot_image]] [[Main_Page]] [[UI_Improvements]] [[Test_Openmoko_Emulation_with_chroot_image]] and other changes Jul 16 17:37:04 Markinoko, which audio apps do you use? Jul 16 17:37:26 zipola: quite a few ;-) Jul 16 17:37:41 Markinoko: Thats very cool. Good luck with it :) I'm not much of a member of the community unfortunately. My contributions are limited, though I, and the group I started are responsible for a LOT of people converting from Windows to Linux at the University of Pittsburgh. Jul 16 17:37:58 zipola: the most common being ardour, linuxsampler, a huge collection of LADSPA and LV2 plugins Jul 16 17:38:05 I'm looking to get more involved with the Openmoko :) Jul 16 17:38:10 and stuff like ingen Jul 16 17:38:14 and JACK Jul 16 17:39:37 jack runs on arm Jul 16 17:39:51 I was planning on using the new jack-midi stuff so I could control my synths on the computer with the phone Jul 16 17:40:35 unknown_lamer: well that's one way to do it. The best would be to have my frame work also able to send midi events Jul 16 17:41:03 Markinoko: that works too Jul 16 17:41:16 Markinoko: I need to get some midi routing stuff up so I can control my keyboard from the computer Jul 16 17:41:22 unknown_lamer: both are interesting, depends on what you want to control. although, midi over wifi needs a bit of coding Jul 16 17:41:38 Markinoko: (I have a funky old keyboard my roommate freecycled and abandoned here that I use as my midi master since I can slave 16 devices to it and do fancy routing) Jul 16 17:42:22 unknown_lamer: that's nice. Jul 16 17:43:06 it's just a mid90s keyboard that cna only load pcm samples in some proprietary format I have yet to fully reverse engineer Jul 16 17:43:46 unknown_lamer: why don't you use a software sampler ? Jul 16 17:43:50 with no on board synth controls (it has on board synth, just not controllable, argh). So computer it is, but it is very annoying to have to reach over to my desktop to control synths Jul 16 17:44:09 Markinoko: that's what I do now :-) The keyboard works nicely as a midi master and hooks into my workstation Jul 16 17:44:21 Markinoko: with the drum machine setup to do MTC master then everything sort of works Jul 16 17:44:29 :-) Jul 16 17:44:37 Markinoko: I haven't gotten any further (just got it all to work, and now I have to move so the keyboard and such are in boxes until august) Jul 16 17:45:39 I'm surprised to find linux audio users here. We're having trouble "counting" our community. Jul 16 17:46:01 I've been using ardour and such since wayyyyyy back when Jul 16 17:46:17 gather round children and I shall tell ye of a dark time before alsa existed Jul 16 17:46:29 real time! ha ha! maybe if you were only running your audio editor Jul 16 17:48:29 Markinoko: I'm pondering ripping out the glame filternetwork code and making it standalone Jul 16 17:48:33 Markinoko: and porting it to jack Jul 16 17:51:38 unknown_lamer: actually I'm discovering this application. Sort of a mix between ingen and a sound editor. Interesting. Though if they lack jack support, they're definetly missing something... Jul 16 17:52:58 Markinoko: glame is ancient (predates alsa even) Jul 16 17:53:03 ah nice preempt realtime patch Jul 16 17:53:57 unknown_lamer: OSS ? Jul 16 17:54:04 Markinoko: it does alsa and whatnot now Jul 16 17:54:05 Markinoko: it Jul 16 17:54:09 's just in pure maintenance mode Jul 16 17:54:18 people report bugs and they are fixed but otherwise it is very dead Jul 16 17:54:40 my goof. GLONASS replenishment and completion before the end of 2009 Jul 16 17:56:08 or so say the 3 chief designers... Jul 16 17:57:27 Hey Guys. Been away for a couple days. Any news on shipping? Is it going to hapen today? Jul 16 17:58:15 Jason1: Haven't heard anything about it yet Jul 16 17:58:28 * CM guesses they'll be late as usually. Jul 16 17:58:35 cm: :9 Jul 16 17:58:51 I'm not complaining, just know that Sean is a huge optimist :D Jul 16 17:58:57 will they have usable gui? Jul 16 17:59:05 Thats unfortunate. I was hoping to have a tracking # in my email today. No such luck (yet) Jul 16 17:59:36 hi CM Jul 16 18:00:45 woglinde: Hello. How's it going with the java? Jul 16 18:01:17 cm I talked with twisti today Jul 16 18:01:27 the one cacao file is only arch spezific Jul 16 18:01:48 so it is not so hard Jul 16 18:02:00 but I write a term wednsday Jul 16 18:02:17 at this point i'd call GLONASS irrelevant to the needs of a geo-aware cellphone. lack of hardware, expense, incomplete constellation... it makes sense for the survey user, but not for a phone Jul 16 18:02:28 or it's not a big enough win yet Jul 16 18:03:06 CM I have .bb for classpath-minimal-native classpath-minimal and cacaoh-native Jul 16 18:03:21 CM and started cacao Jul 16 18:12:55 woglinde: Cool (Sorry, cousin called and disturbed :P) Jul 16 18:13:18 CM hehe no prob Jul 16 18:13:19 woglinde: And good luck on the test :) Jul 16 18:13:30 hm its mobil communication Jul 16 18:13:43 so its about wave wifi bt gsm cdam Jul 16 18:13:47 cdma Jul 16 18:13:51 wap Jul 16 18:13:54 mobil tcp Jul 16 18:13:56 and stuff Jul 16 18:13:57 hehe Jul 16 18:14:22 Nice, I have had a course like that too Jul 16 18:14:47 yeah but I didnt learn to much till now Jul 16 18:14:52 for the test Jul 16 18:15:14 It's cool, I think. How the ortoghonal channels work and so on Jul 16 18:15:39 hm Jul 16 18:35:15 On GLONASS - if there was hardware that was as simple and cheap as HH - it's a pure win. Jul 16 18:35:38 Maybe a moderately significant one in some conditions, same (eventually) with gallileo. Jul 16 18:37:01 When AGPS works - it's interesting to note that if the USA reintroduced selective availability, it wouldn't significantly effect accuracy of users positions. Jul 16 18:37:19 http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/touch-me/linux-mpx-multi+touch-table-may-become-free-diy-microsoft-surface-one-day-278613.php Jul 16 18:38:33 I want a decent window. Several megapixel 8'*4' display with focus at infinity. Jul 16 18:43:56 woah. openmoko.com server gives me 5.3Mbyte/sec download :) Jul 16 18:44:10 Downloading what? Jul 16 18:50:56 SpeedEvil: don't you know ? they're shipping the phones over the internet. a lot faster than sending them by air mail ! hurry, go get one ;-) Jul 16 18:52:48 * SpeedEvil has a 8s ping ATM - downloading the image. Jul 16 18:52:51 SpeedEvil: oh, some hires photos for a paper article Jul 16 18:53:05 The chroot image. Jul 16 19:06:49 SpeedEvil checksum - done Jul 16 19:07:23 ewanm89_laptop could you add that to the wikipage? Jul 16 19:10:13 kristian-m: What was it I said? It was a while ago. Jul 16 19:19:40 counter? Jul 16 19:19:40 (last update 2007-07-14 16:40) http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter : Order https://direct.openmoko.com/ ; Shipping prob. 65% in 20:20:07 (0.847±0.8 days) (1748;248) Jul 16 19:20:07 so, are we seeing them ship today? Jul 16 19:20:09 ewanm89_laptop you've meant that you are working on support for users in the emulation environment... Jul 16 19:20:38 kristian-m: I'm working on patches to give user support anywhere. Jul 16 19:20:42 ewanm89_laptop when I tryed it the images wouldn't load - so I changed the description of the chroot-image to run it as root Jul 16 19:20:44 daMaestro: if they made it to california Jul 16 19:21:00 ewanm89_laptop ah okay, great Jul 16 19:21:28 lamer, so.. the word is they have not? Jul 16 19:21:31 kristian-m: Inside openmoko, mine is running as a user. Jul 16 19:23:14 unknown_lamer, * Jul 16 19:23:28 daMaestro: no word at all Jul 16 19:23:38 ok Jul 16 19:23:56 i've actually heard some feedback on the iPhone from a group of girls i know Jul 16 19:24:28 and? Jul 16 19:24:29 and these are not exactly the brightest candles in the box (the hot valley girl kinda girls) and they think it is a rip off Jul 16 19:24:37 i was dumbfounded Jul 16 19:24:43 they think the iPhone is a ripoff? Jul 16 19:24:43 ;) Jul 16 19:24:48 ewanm89_laptop yes in the emulated environment, when I start qemu as a user - but maybe i've still got another problem here, as I was building everything on an other machine Jul 16 19:24:50 very much so Jul 16 19:24:55 daMaestro: care to introduce me? Jul 16 19:24:58 :-P Jul 16 19:25:16 It's them we want to get to. Jul 16 19:25:24 (no, not for that reason) Jul 16 19:25:26 SpeedEvil, lol Jul 16 19:25:47 They need to think it's fun and they can do lots of stuff with it. Jul 16 19:25:56 SpeedEvil, well, these are the kind of girls that spent $500 on a pair of jeans Jul 16 19:26:00 On the other hand, camera is pretty much mandatory for that market segment. Jul 16 19:26:08 SpeedEvil, so when they think the iphone is a rip... Jul 16 19:26:14 hi!!!! Jul 16 19:26:18 For some girls, $500 on a pair of jeans is a worthwhile investment asthetically. Jul 16 19:26:41 ;) Jul 16 19:26:57 hrm.... Jul 16 19:26:59 some times my dream is: britney Jul 16 19:27:07 ar1? Jul 16 19:27:07 why do I not know any girls like this? Jul 16 19:27:21 You hang out only with poor people? Jul 16 19:27:24 britney is mentally ill Jul 16 19:27:33 hehehehe Jul 16 19:27:38 zipola: lol, that must be it Jul 16 19:27:56 Feng Shui apps, ... Jul 16 19:28:02 lol Jul 16 19:28:10 Diet calculators. Jul 16 19:28:18 How can anyone justify $500 on jeans, you could get an openmoko for that. lol Jul 16 19:28:57 calamous: at this point, those girls wouldn't know what openmoko was, how to use it, or care enough to learn Jul 16 19:29:08 I still can Jul 16 19:29:09 which is probably the real reason I don't know girls like that :-D Jul 16 19:29:23 't get it through to my iPhone using friend that giving apple $600 so they can prevent me from hacking on the device is a bad idea Jul 16 19:29:31 he's just ... "it's almost cracked!" Jul 16 19:29:34 until the first ota update Jul 16 19:29:41 summatusmentis: true, very true Jul 16 19:30:34 lol Jul 16 19:32:20 So has anyone got the email saying that their order is ready to ship? Jul 16 19:32:30 unknown_lamer, i know people from t-mobile that are basically "counting on" someone unlocking the phone Jul 16 19:32:36 they are fairly confident it can be done Jul 16 19:32:48 i tried to explain to them that there are iphone only features on the att network Jul 16 19:32:51 calamous: nobody has gotten tehir card charged even as I understand it. Jul 16 19:33:15 daMaestro: And we give them a better cheaper unlocked phone. Jul 16 19:33:18 SpeedEvil: Thanks for the clarification. Jul 16 19:33:55 SpeedEvil: I guess I should just keep looking at the credit card's website to monitor pending charges. lol Jul 16 19:34:25 daMaestro: unlocking is not quite the same as cracking it Jul 16 19:34:26 yes, i have not been charged, yet Jul 16 19:34:55 daMaestro: I'm betting that Apple will release an update once people can build apps for it that prevents iTunes access or some such until you upgrade and lock yourself out Jul 16 19:35:13 daMaestro: or that it'll turn out you need a signing key from apple to even run anything (ala series60 v3) Jul 16 19:35:34 i actually hope they do that Jul 16 19:35:42 daMaestro: I am mostly perplexed that he sees the effort required to get openmoko working as being the same as the effort needed to keep cracking around Apple Jul 16 19:35:55 daMaestro: Require apps to be signed before then can be run on the iPhone? Jul 16 19:36:09 it's like uh ... openmoko -> productive effort verses apple -> repetetive bullshit effort resulting in a permanently antagonistic relationship Jul 16 19:36:09 i really, really hope that apple is just a total whore about the iPhone; it will do nothing but help FOSS in the mobile marketplace Jul 16 19:36:36 the thing is he is ignoring my experience with series60 Jul 16 19:36:41 calamous, do anything to lock their customers in... and developers out Jul 16 19:36:44 afternoon friends Jul 16 19:36:45 I was lured in my promises of programmability only to have them smashed to the ground Jul 16 19:36:48 I have a question: is the neo1973 able to play videos? Jul 16 19:36:48 pitux22: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (and also SH1_FAQ, Neo1973, Developer_preview and Neo1973_Hardware#GTA01Bv4 pages) (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) Jul 16 19:36:55 re unwisted Jul 16 19:37:10 how is everyone? Jul 16 19:37:30 fine Jul 16 19:37:35 sun is gone Jul 16 19:37:37 beer too Jul 16 19:37:51 daMaestro: I'm afraid that people will accept the "locks" as thats just the way it in and go along with apple no matter what. Jul 16 19:37:54 I have a question: is the neo1973 able to play videos? Jul 16 19:37:57 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Hardware_Developer/zh_cn]] [[Hardware_Developer/es]] [[Hardware_Developer]] [[Hardware_Developer/it]] [[Category:Neo1973_Hardware_Debugging/it]] [[Neo1973_Power_button/it]] [[Neo1973_AUX_button/it]] [[Summer_of_code/fr]] [[Neo1973/ru]] and other changes Jul 16 19:38:04 pitux22: look at video player on the wiki Jul 16 19:38:15 thx Jul 16 19:38:18 pitux22: basically yes - for specially encoded or small videos. Jul 16 19:38:23 calamous, well those people would not be of value in the needed development community Jul 16 19:38:28 You won't be playing h.264 on it. Jul 16 19:38:37 to make open moko what it possibly could turn into Jul 16 19:38:58 But on the Public Release one you can play MPEG4 in hardware Jul 16 19:39:01 Are there extensions anywhere to qemu to make it accurately timed - even if it slows it down by a factor of many? Jul 16 19:39:38 daMaestro: That is true. but each time people accept these bad things companies do and continue to give them money, they have further money to keep doing the same shit. What you need is consumers demanding open products and no BS Jul 16 19:39:57 for the screen rotation part, are we going to have xrandr? Jul 16 19:40:20 tuukkah: I'm sure, since this is in OpenEmbedded Jul 16 19:40:37 tuukkah: probably. Jul 16 19:40:46 tuukkah: it would be foolish to have xorg 7 and use something else Jul 16 19:40:50 ;-) Jul 16 19:41:02 tuukkah: I concur with everyone else Jul 16 19:41:07 Howver - for videos encoded for the device this may be the wrong s0olution. Jul 16 19:41:09 cool :-) Jul 16 19:41:13 pre-rotated video may be better. Jul 16 19:41:31 why's that? Jul 16 19:41:46 calamous: aye which is why I don't buy hardware Jul 16 19:41:55 are you sure, neo1973 able to play video??? oO Jul 16 19:42:06 calamous: amd because of their ownership of ati is boycotted (except for used hardware) and so is nvidia Jul 16 19:42:18 calamous: I'm just *really* glad that the pro audio manufacturers aren't huge asses like the graphics people are Jul 16 19:42:30 tukk: because the operation to rotate the displayed image is yet another operation that the CPU has to do. Jul 16 19:42:55 unknown_lamer: well, audio is a different matter. no Gam3zz involved... Jul 16 19:43:03 pitux22: yes, is capable to play videos Jul 16 19:43:27 unknown_lamer: yes yes. I wish the "average" consumer would be aware and cared as passionately about openness and free software Jul 16 19:43:28 Markinoko: I just want a faster card than an r200 :-( Jul 16 19:43:34 ar1 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Video_Player the are some problems no? Jul 16 19:43:44 SpeedEvil, i would have expected the driver-level xrandr to be able to do the rotate for free when it pokes the framebuffer Jul 16 19:43:46 calamous: even the non consumers have this issue (e.g. my friend who got me into gnu/linux!) Jul 16 19:43:47 The problems are addressable. Jul 16 19:43:53 back when we were fourteen many a year ago Jul 16 19:44:14 unknown_lamer: yeah... Jul 16 19:44:15 tuukkah: there is no driver hardware, it's a dumb framebuffer. Jul 16 19:44:19 pitux22: yes, exists some problems Jul 16 19:44:31 unknown_lamer: yes Jul 16 19:44:32 Markinoko: open source is one of the problems; it urges cooperation with uncooperative people :-\ Jul 16 19:44:37 ar1 so? Jul 16 19:44:44 give the proprietary folks all of your code and ask for nothing in return Jul 16 19:44:58 the wolves will share and not eat you Jul 16 19:45:01 trust us! Jul 16 19:45:07 hrrm.. did anyone else get 'Permission denied' when the replied to the 'YES_I_DO' question ? Jul 16 19:45:18 hozer: do you forward your email Jul 16 19:45:32 ooooooooooohhh Jul 16 19:45:37 SpeedEvil, but you don't need hardware to have if(rotate) putPixel(y,x); else putPixel(x,y); Jul 16 19:45:38 hozer: You must send it from your mail on file Jul 16 19:45:41 set the 'reply-to ?' Jul 16 19:45:46 for 'from' ? Jul 16 19:46:11 tuukkah: that introduces an extra instruction + branch ... Jul 16 19:46:13 hozer: Yes, just make sure the "from" is the same as the "to" when openmoko send it to you Jul 16 19:46:23 tuukkah: no - but you need to compute the address of (position,position) which may be faster in (x,y) than (y,x) Jul 16 19:46:27 tuukkah: then you end up with weird cache issues and the arm slows down considerably Jul 16 19:46:35 Also - there are cache issues Jul 16 19:46:58 tuukkah: and when you need the cmp + branch on *every* graphics op Jul 16 19:47:03 unknown_lamer, sure it can be optimized by having separate code paths chosen when xrandr is run Jul 16 19:47:21 you're looking at 640 * 480 * 30 extra instructions minimum Jul 16 19:47:22 per second Jul 16 19:47:50 pitux22: no problem, on gta02 the problem do not exists Jul 16 19:47:57 good :) Jul 16 19:48:35 tuukkah: you will _screw_ the bus bandwidth though - writing 0,1 0,2 0,3 ... 0,480 is _much_ less expensive than writing 0,0 1,0 2,0 Jul 16 19:48:39 I don't understand you either increment by 1 or you increment by the stride width of 1 row I don't really think there would be a huge performance penalty for a 90 degree rotation Jul 16 19:48:39 gta02 has a graphics proccesor Jul 16 19:48:55 SpeedEvil, right Jul 16 19:48:56 Because the first case is well-cached. Jul 16 19:48:59 The second isn't. Jul 16 19:49:04 so we wont' have xrandr? Jul 16 19:49:05 It's pessimised in fact. Jul 16 19:49:13 will the graphics proccessor be able to do any GL stuff? Jul 16 19:49:17 Will have xrandr, but you don't want to use it with video. Jul 16 19:49:21 hozer: it's NDAd. Jul 16 19:49:30 what is NDAd? Jul 16 19:49:32 hozer: any driver has to be developed internally to FIC Jul 16 19:49:44 pitux22: Non Disclosure Agreement Jul 16 19:49:51 Tehy give the datasheet to FIC, who can't share it. Jul 16 19:49:56 NDA sucks but as long as they can release drivers ... Jul 16 19:50:01 subcontract it to TimRiker so he can make bzflag work ;) Jul 16 19:50:03 so here we had some talk about ati and nvidia... Jul 16 19:50:04 if the drivers are written well we have docs Jul 16 19:50:07 but the graphical processeur support 3D? Jul 16 19:50:27 They can release drivers - but they are constrained by the amount of time they have. So the drivers may not implement everything. Jul 16 19:50:38 And we can't implement the rest as we have no docs. Jul 16 19:50:43 even if ther's an NDA, some companies allow open drivers to be developped Jul 16 19:51:03 Yes. Jul 16 19:51:10 Err Jul 16 19:51:16 That's not the problem. Jul 16 19:51:16 wha? huh? Jul 16 19:51:22 Aloowing the driver isn't the issue. Jul 16 19:51:31 The fact that we have _no_ data on the chip is the issue. Jul 16 19:51:45 but, FIC has data, right? Jul 16 19:51:53 Yes, which they can't share. Jul 16 19:52:05 That's the point of a non-disclosure agreement. Jul 16 19:52:10 hehe Jul 16 19:52:27 but the can subcontract development to anyone else who would sign (and understand) the NDA Jul 16 19:52:35 I want one of those full-disclosure non-disclosure agreements. Jul 16 19:53:01 hozer: subcontract may require actual formal employment, depending on how the agreement is worded. Jul 16 19:53:35 And some do in fact have a list of companies or parts thereof that may have access. Jul 16 19:53:42 true Jul 16 19:53:47 And exclude subcontractors. Jul 16 19:54:01 so who do I ask at FIC about getting an NDA :P Jul 16 19:54:12 Give it several weeks. Jul 16 19:54:17 SpeedEvil, very good point about the bus bandwidth. i suppose it actually means rotation can't be cheap to implement in hardware either. it could be done on rectangle blitting level though Jul 16 19:54:22 Everybody is buried at the moment. Jul 16 19:54:35 always waiting, jeez ;) Jul 16 19:55:33 SpeedEvil, is the issue when rotating the display 90 is that the access to the screen won't be contigous so it will be difficult to cache? Jul 16 19:55:53 That's part of it. Jul 16 19:56:11 If you access external memory, it drags in a cacheline of memory at a time. Jul 16 19:56:21 Typically. Jul 16 19:56:24 Right and it wont be revelant Jul 16 19:56:40 because it likes to get spacial locality Jul 16 19:58:05 can we assume that they're not shipping today? Jul 16 19:58:17 are we actually likely to get any infor at all? Jul 16 19:58:23 Given that they have not reportedly charged anyones cards, ... Jul 16 19:58:31 (has your card been charged?) Jul 16 19:59:13 On this page http://wiki.openmoko.org/index.php?title=P1_Owners we should update ourselves when our CCs get charged Jul 16 19:59:18 no, not that I'm aware of Jul 16 19:59:27 that way we can know the relative timeline of events Jul 16 19:59:39 Indeed calamous. Jul 16 20:00:03 it's 1pm at west coast so there's still some time... Jul 16 20:00:37 Do we even know if the phones have left customs? Jul 16 20:00:47 exactly, it's ridiculous for us to think about this Jul 16 20:00:49 it doesn't actually take much to fire off an email to the list, or each person ordering to at least keep us informed... Jul 16 20:01:28 we should get updates instead of having to wonder what's going on Jul 16 20:01:36 jeez. Jul 16 20:01:37 stop whining. Jul 16 20:02:05 spamming the lists and channel really doesn't make things go faster Jul 16 20:02:27 who's sam Jul 16 20:02:36 errm, who's spamming anything Jul 16 20:02:51 you know, irc - it's designed to chat about things Jul 16 20:02:55 lol Jul 16 20:02:58 everybody who keeps chatting Jul 16 20:02:58 don;t like it , leave Jul 16 20:03:25 * hozer wonders if people had conversations like this waiting in line for iphones Jul 16 20:03:30 ScaredyCat: yeah, but maybe 15 people have asked about shipping so far today Jul 16 20:03:59 hozer, "omg what if apple doesn't have the phones here in time" =) Jul 16 20:03:59 that's because there's *no* other information source unknown_lamer Jul 16 20:04:25 if there hasn't been a list post then how would anyone on irc know? Jul 16 20:04:43 * unknown_lamer is badly in need of a dbus conformance test suite Jul 16 20:04:47 unknown_lamer, for example if they are openmoko employees Jul 16 20:04:48 some people know people Jul 16 20:04:52 stabbing into the dark writing a binary protocol implementation is being difficult Jul 16 20:05:05 or if they got their credit card charged... Jul 16 20:06:35 is anyone else planning to run clisp on the phone? Jul 16 20:07:08 the lack of ffi is going to make it a bit painful, but at least if I get cl-dbus running it can interact with the services Jul 16 20:07:10 unknown_lamer: in what context? Jul 16 20:07:16 Hammerhead? Jul 16 20:07:19 Yes, it's fun :) Jul 16 20:07:52 I'm wondering how difficult it would be to make the clisp ffi work on ARM Jul 16 20:08:01 ffi? Jul 16 20:08:06 foreign function interface Jul 16 20:08:14 i bet it's been done Jul 16 20:08:16 ah Jul 16 20:08:30 happycube: the debian version has no ffi on arm :-( Jul 16 20:08:34 usually that is a very bad sign Jul 16 20:08:49 * hozer was just talking to a co-worker about process startup Jul 16 20:08:59 it can still do X because CLX is native CL, but no gtk or mokolibs Jul 16 20:09:04 and wondering if anyone had ever written init scripts in lisp ;) Jul 16 20:09:16 emacs is my shell so I sort of have Jul 16 20:09:30 I have a little sysv-init clone written in elisp for starting emacs Jul 16 20:09:54 you mean emacs is your init? Jul 16 20:11:19 tuukkah: yes Jul 16 20:11:22 well Jul 16 20:11:25 my user init Jul 16 20:11:26 or the only program you refer to in inittab is emacs? Jul 16 20:11:38 I started getting crazy ideas like writing a busybox/klibc/python interpreter combination for /bin/init Jul 16 20:11:48 I mean I have a sysv-init clone that loads emacs initialization stuff Jul 16 20:11:58 mostly because my config is over 1000 lines and spans across maybe 15 files now Jul 16 20:12:29 and then when I log into a shell all my profile does is launch an emacs in screen if one isn't yet running or attaches to the running emacs in screen Jul 16 20:14:11 unknown_lamer, do you know run-parts in debian? Jul 16 20:16:14 tuukkah: yes Jul 16 20:17:04 unknown_lamer, so if i understood correctly, you have elisp code implementation of run-parts Jul 16 20:17:41 tuukkah: no, I don't use it for system init but rather I use it to initialize my emacs user env (which is my interface the the machine once things start) Jul 16 20:17:57 unknown_lamer: that is sick. Jul 16 20:17:59 yeah, run-parts can be used like that Jul 16 20:18:16 hi Jul 16 20:18:21 i mean, you could have run-parts in your .bashrc Jul 16 20:18:29 ah Jul 16 20:18:30 emdebian.org, perhaps.. help :) Jul 16 20:18:32 ferric: why :-) Jul 16 20:18:38 what software can i run already on neo Jul 16 20:19:19 i know openembedded has 23000 packages in its list to be built with ipkg Jul 16 20:19:35 anyone wanna buy me an open moko in exchange for a laptop ;) Jul 16 20:19:44 www.emdebian.org/ Jul 16 20:19:54 can these be installed on neo Jul 16 20:19:57 * * OM Bug 640 has been created by J.Schauer(AT)web.de Jul 16 20:19:58 * * MokoScrolledPane not able to scroll a gtkhtml Widget Jul 16 20:19:59 i want to Jul 16 20:19:59 * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=640 Jul 16 20:20:21 untwisted, me :) Jul 16 20:20:54 untwisted: what kinda laptop :P Jul 16 20:21:00 acer ferrari 3200 Jul 16 20:21:10 what cpu? Jul 16 20:21:18 amd64 3200 I believe Jul 16 20:21:21 lemme double check Jul 16 20:22:00 * hozer wishes he could buy a laptop with debian preinstalled and supported from the manufacturer Jul 16 20:22:05 untwisted: ram? Jul 16 20:22:06 whoops, its only the amd64 2800+ Jul 16 20:22:09 768mb Jul 16 20:22:20 untwisted: hard disk? Jul 16 20:22:24 wi-fi? Jul 16 20:22:24 Currently sold Neo1973 GTA01B_v04 (P1) doesn't have WiFi, GTA02 (P2) which is scheduled for October will have WiFi with free (libre) drivers (Atheros AR6K): http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ#Q:_What_is_the_rationale_behind_the_exclusion_of_WiFi.3F Jul 16 20:22:32 80gb 5400, a/b/g wifi Jul 16 20:23:08 interesting Jul 16 20:23:51 trying to get $500 for it, $300 of which would go to buying a moko, and $200 of which would go towards me drinking heavily Jul 16 20:24:07 not very heavily Jul 16 20:24:34 $200 / $34 = 5 bottles of Johnny Walker black label :) Jul 16 20:24:46 oh, well, if you're gonna be anti-social about it Jul 16 20:24:49 haha Jul 16 20:24:53 untwisted: linux sound,wifi works? whats the video? Jul 16 20:24:56 might as well get 20 bottles of $10 rum Jul 16 20:25:10 $200 buys you a lot of quesadillas and tequila =) Jul 16 20:25:18 $200 = 200 beers at local bars! Jul 16 20:25:26 tuukkah: roadtrip to TJ? Jul 16 20:25:54 $200 = 20 rounds with a $10 hooker Jul 16 20:26:14 dantalizing: linux sound works fine, and wifi works with fwcutter or ndiswrapper, the video is an ATI radeon 128mb 9200 mobility. Everything works just peachy in Linux including bluetooth and the 4in1 card reader Jul 16 20:26:15 Qwell, exactly, something like that Jul 16 20:26:33 Why are we factoring $200 into products and services? Jul 16 20:26:37 I've had success with both the ati drivers and the open source radeon driver Jul 16 20:27:23 well, I'm a poor college student, $200 increases my money situation by 175% Jul 16 20:27:57 untwisted, it's $300 for buying the phone and $200 for the shipping %-) Jul 16 20:28:05 haha Jul 16 20:28:11 thats about right Jul 16 20:28:11 Haha Jul 16 20:28:14 :-p Jul 16 20:28:36 untwisted, the shipping cost is there so that you have more time to develop on the phone Jul 16 20:28:48 :P of course Jul 16 20:29:13 I develop a lot better drunk Jul 16 20:29:34 untwisted: ;) Jul 16 20:29:41 At least in my mind Jul 16 20:29:42 i bet not, if you drink heavily... Jul 16 20:29:58 hahaaaa ! finaly, I have my openmoko up and running in qemu :-D Jul 16 20:30:18 woa, this thing is cool Jul 16 20:30:31 Oh hey, btw I have qemu image of OpenMoko compiled and ready to run for anyone that wants to download it ;-) Jul 16 20:31:28 dtx where can I find said image? Jul 16 20:31:32 The one in the wiki? Jul 16 20:32:03 actually I can put it up to download if somebody really wants Jul 16 20:32:19 I was just joking because Markinoko said he just finished compiling it Jul 16 20:32:20 Hint: buildhost.openmoko.org Jul 16 20:32:31 I don't like that hint Jul 16 20:32:35 That was compiled in April Jul 16 20:32:54 dtx: http://buildhost.openmoko.org/tmp/deploy/images/ Jul 16 20:33:17 well hell Jul 16 20:33:21 that shuts me up Jul 16 20:33:23 ;-) Jul 16 20:33:29 openmoko/download.sh Jul 16 20:33:50 make qemu Jul 16 20:34:15 * Aria grumbles about OpenEmbedded building the native packages. Jul 16 20:34:25 ./make_a_phone_appear_in_my_hand.sh Jul 16 20:34:43 Has mickeyl commented on the merge? Jul 16 20:34:53 unfortunately I have not yet released the source of this script... huhuhu Jul 16 20:35:09 Markinoko, upload it somewhere! Jul 16 20:35:38 mmazur: ok, this is $450 ;-) Jul 16 20:35:56 mmazur: and you even get a debug board ! Jul 16 20:36:34 for an extra $50 you can buy my laptop ;) Jul 16 20:36:39 and I can then buy a moko Jul 16 20:36:43 can openembedded source be used in neo Jul 16 20:37:12 docdoc: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/distro-devel/2007-June/000042.html Jul 16 20:37:29 a version 3 of neo1973 is envisaged? Jul 16 20:38:08 Eventually. Jul 16 20:38:18 Well - probably. Jul 16 20:38:29 Many different models are imagined eventually. Jul 16 20:38:52 AFAIK there was some talk about at least 3 other devices during the Linuxtag 07 Q&A. Jul 16 20:39:25 why buy the version 2 if a version 3 is envisaged^^ ? Jul 16 20:39:54 One to make calls on, one to use. Jul 16 20:40:01 pitux22: Why buy the version 3 if a version 4 is envisaged? Jul 16 20:40:10 why buy version 3, version 4 will come? Jul 16 20:40:17 I mean, you might as well wait 5 years to get the version 42 Jul 16 20:40:19 xD Jul 16 20:40:21 ^^ Jul 16 20:40:35 then you will have to wait Jul 16 20:40:39 on that note, I think I just convinced myself to get an 01 :p Jul 16 20:40:45 ...stupid logic Jul 16 20:40:51 pitux22, you want to start developing on this phone as soon as possible =) Jul 16 20:41:03 I say im waiting till version 3 Jul 16 20:41:10 but that is out of hope Jul 16 20:41:17 hope I will have the money Jul 16 20:44:41 I'm waiting til version 2 Jul 16 20:44:52 Because I want wifi, and don't give a crap about a cam phone Jul 16 20:46:40 wil a 8GB microSD card work Jul 16 20:46:55 i read this at comparison V & Jul 16 20:46:59 do they make 8GB yet? Jul 16 20:46:59 I hope so Jul 16 20:47:05 V1 versus V2 Jul 16 20:47:24 this would be fantastic Jul 16 20:47:25 v2 is better Jul 16 20:47:43 even if you could put apps on it and running it from SD Jul 16 20:47:46 and im willing to put money down that v3 will be better then v2 Jul 16 20:48:20 V2 is al we need for the moment , compared to for ex htc 3450 touchphone Jul 16 20:48:21 yeah but wait until v4. it makes v2 look like a tin can and string Jul 16 20:48:42 has only 200 processor and low res screen Jul 16 20:48:59 I thought v1 was Full VGA Jul 16 20:49:06 wait until the very last day of your life, then buy an openmoko phone. that last day of cell phone bliss will make up for the rest of your life. Jul 16 20:49:10 the V2 should be enough for me for what i want it to do Jul 16 20:49:19 me too Jul 16 20:49:43 anyone is using G1 already Jul 16 20:50:01 with other touch apps ex the dialer Jul 16 20:50:28 apps within the X11 environment yet working Jul 16 20:52:09 ok... I gonna be the newb here, but is Xoo better with or without Xephir ? if this is a troll, just kick me... Jul 16 20:53:53 list of working software yet? Jul 16 20:53:59 Xoo is a wrapper shell. Cute. Xephir is an Xnest server that more completely simulates a real X than Xnest proper does. Jul 16 20:54:08 I imagine most any OpenEmbedded software will work Jul 16 20:54:14 Which is a lot Jul 16 20:54:58 how many people have a neo1973?? Jul 16 20:55:16 Aria: thx :-) Jul 16 20:55:20 *crickets chirping* Jul 16 20:55:29 heh Jul 16 20:55:36 * don-o watches a tumbleweed roll by Jul 16 20:55:54 How many people are waiting for v2? Jul 16 20:55:57 * dtx raises hand. Jul 16 20:56:11 * Kero is busy-waiting for a P1 :) Jul 16 20:56:46 I want this dev version, it would still be fun, but I don't have enough disposable cash at the moment Jul 16 20:56:54 * don-o is waiting for a P1 report before ordering Jul 16 20:57:15 dtx, thats why I'm selling my body Jul 16 20:57:34 You mean your man-gina? Jul 16 20:57:43 Assuming of course that you are a man. Jul 16 20:57:50 dtx, everything, including the man-gina Jul 16 20:58:01 haha Jul 16 20:58:26 any takers? Jul 16 20:58:27 dtx, u have a V1 working Jul 16 20:58:34 what with teh Jul 16 20:58:51 some time ago i got a spam offering to enlarge my mangina Jul 16 20:59:00 I have current OpenMoko qemu image working Jul 16 20:59:06 with the power cable in the box (is it power with usb slot for power source) Jul 16 20:59:07 I haven't touched the physical hardware Jul 16 20:59:32 The Neo's are charged over USB I believe Jul 16 20:59:52 is there a usb to power supply adapter? Jul 16 21:00:07 so i dont need to load with laptop all the time Jul 16 21:00:09 They are. Jul 16 21:00:21 dtx: yes they are. No separate plug. Jul 16 21:01:23 docdoc: i'm guessing any usb psu (like for plugging phone charger leads and such into) will do - or a powered usb hub Jul 16 21:02:20 cjb can u give example Jul 16 21:02:48 bah, pesky nick highlight Jul 16 21:03:29 there can be only one Jul 16 21:03:56 quit Jul 16 21:04:10 C U around Jul 16 21:04:40 time to go home Jul 16 21:04:45 c-ya later! Jul 16 21:04:51 see you Jul 16 21:17:29 openmoko-emulator-win32-bin-20070625.zip just crashes for me when i try to run it Jul 16 21:21:07 what is it? Jul 16 21:23:59 windows binary for qemu openmoko build Jul 16 21:24:39 from the wiki http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/OpenMoko_under_QEMU#Pre-built_binaries Jul 16 21:25:10 ... ... ... ... Jul 16 21:25:20 morse code? Jul 16 21:25:28 the sound of patience Jul 16 21:25:31 possible to emulate openMoko on linux? Jul 16 21:25:38 ya Jul 16 21:25:45 read teh wiki Jul 16 21:25:48 okay Jul 16 21:26:27 lf Jul 16 21:26:28 any phones get sent yet? Jul 16 21:26:34 ooops Jul 16 21:26:45 today is the projected day according to the topic Jul 16 21:26:52 the V2 of neo1973 have a multi-touch screen?? Jul 16 21:27:25 pitux, very unlikely. neo uses resistive screens, iphone uses capacitive. Jul 16 21:27:55 okay Jul 16 21:28:05 gedget^^ Jul 16 21:28:06 is anyone using freebsd to do openmoko dev? Jul 16 21:28:08 gadget* Jul 16 21:28:36 ferric, probably not Jul 16 21:28:49 galexande: it's harder? Jul 16 21:28:54 ferric, it's untested Jul 16 21:29:00 ah Jul 16 21:29:06 many of the makefiles may have implicit bash dependencies and so on Jul 16 21:29:11 depends how linux-like your bsd system is :) Jul 16 21:29:17 heh Jul 16 21:29:27 well, my freebsd box refused to power up last night. Jul 16 21:29:38 well, thats not very linux-like Jul 16 21:29:42 well it won't run openmoko dev until you replace the psu :) Jul 16 21:29:42 heh! Jul 16 21:29:56 i doubt i need to replace the psu, no idea what went wrong. Jul 16 21:30:09 So it works now? Jul 16 21:30:09 i want to go home tonight and look at it. Jul 16 21:30:22 most likely i'll just get an ubuntu build sik and stick it in Jul 16 21:30:47 dtx: no. unless something magically changed between last night and this morning. Jul 16 21:30:58 like maybe the aliens returned my psu! Jul 16 21:31:33 ferric: they seem to put the ones they steal on my bookcase Jul 16 21:31:38 anyway, so are you recommending sticking with linux for openmoko dev? Jul 16 21:31:54 ben_goodger: do you have an antec sonata II psu on your bookcase? Jul 16 21:33:52 ferric: it seems there are other people using FreeBSD: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Talk:OpenMoko_under_QEMU#FreeBSD_and_last_qemu... Jul 16 21:35:19 probably not, but you never know with unlabelled stuff Jul 16 21:36:26 Kensan: ah - thanks for the pointer. Jul 16 21:37:37 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[GSM02.07]] [[Modular_phone]] [[Category:Hardware_ideas]] [[Category:Neo1973_alternate_cases]] [[Neo1973_alternate_cases]] [[Main_Page/es]] [[GSM_%26_GPRS_Connection_Status/it]] [[GSM_%26_GPRS_Connection_Status]] [[Footer/it]] [[Footer]] and other changes Jul 16 21:40:24 galexande: you can do resistive multi-touch screens. Jul 16 21:40:48 galexande: basically they have a matrix similar to a keypad. Jul 16 21:41:21 galexande: instead of simple planes of constant resistivity, you have strips of constant resistivity, at right angles. Jul 16 21:51:40 ;O Jul 16 21:52:35 i'm just playing aroung with the openmoko binaries in qemu. i am surprised. from all the talks i thought that only the dialer is there but there are more apps, that you can at least start. if they are functional? i don't know ... But i have one problem, though .... where the hell is the keyboard???? Jul 16 21:53:03 lol Jul 16 21:53:17 mafeu: i think there's a wiki article on that or it's in the faq or something. Jul 16 21:53:53 ferric: so you won't tell me? ;-) Jul 16 21:57:06 mafeu: click on grey box at top Jul 16 21:57:10 AIUI Jul 16 21:57:15 hi Jul 16 21:58:02 SpeedEvil: Thanks, that helps ;-) Jul 16 22:07:47 I'm almost done with a VM image Jul 16 22:08:11 Think I can upload it to the wiki? Jul 16 22:17:03 gcb77 - How large? Jul 16 22:17:15 3GB Jul 16 22:18:33 I'm setting up a place on my site as well. Either way, it'll take hours to upload Jul 16 22:19:01 Don't upload to wiki. Jul 16 22:19:08 Only link to it on the wiki. Jul 16 22:19:18 5GB are insane for a wiki. Jul 16 22:19:50 what are you uploading? Jul 16 22:20:27 VM image with MokoMakefile Jul 16 22:21:02 anyone working on openmoko in ubuntu 7.04? Jul 16 22:21:07 what vm? Jul 16 22:21:23 MrFeetio, where in PA do you live? Jul 16 22:21:38 The VM image is XUbuntu Feisty Jul 16 22:21:56 gcb77: using qemu/kvm ? Jul 16 22:22:00 I have another one working with Ubuntu 7.04 Jul 16 22:22:02 VMWare Jul 16 22:22:28 gcb77: did you have to compile gcc3.0 to use mokomakefile or did you do something else Jul 16 22:22:32 mechanicsburg(near the capital) Jul 16 22:22:48 Oh, thats cool, Pittsburgher here, I know someone from mechanicsburg Jul 16 22:22:51 untwisted: apt-get install gcc-3.3 Jul 16 22:22:58 a free software phone project should use a free software vm :P Jul 16 22:23:04 then I manually remove the gcc link from 3.4 and pointed it at 3.3 Jul 16 22:23:17 gcb77: thanks, I searched apt-cache and didn't find it :| Jul 16 22:23:50 hozer - virtualbox? Jul 16 22:24:20 Elrond: or that ;) Jul 16 22:24:30 have you tried virtualbox? Jul 16 22:24:49 No. A friend. Jul 16 22:25:01 I probably will do soon. It seems I need winblows for work. :-( Jul 16 22:26:10 http://www.engadgetmobile.com/2007/07/16/samsung-files-patent-for-joystick-phone/ Jul 16 22:27:04 lol, what a senceless bullshit :) Jul 16 22:27:24 untwisted: i have openmoko built on ubuntu feisty Jul 16 22:31:39 don-o: I'm alright for right now, but still working through the make process. Ubuntu ships with such little in the way of developer tools Jul 16 22:33:52 Elrond: if you have a machine capable of VT, kvm seems to work well Jul 16 22:34:58 hozer - I'm hoping for virtualbox to once get into debian... Jul 16 22:35:24 oooh, that would be nice.. is there an effort for that? Jul 16 22:35:50 The nice thing is that I should have SSH working with QEMU Jul 16 22:36:46 woot, got openmoko booting in qemu! Jul 16 22:36:53 hozer - Huh, I don't know. Jul 16 22:37:14 errr, sort of... it appears as though its missing some grafix files ;) Jul 16 22:37:29 hozer - virtualbox is GPL, right? (except some add-ons) Jul 16 22:40:56 hozer - bugs.debian.org/406992 Jul 16 22:46:15 untwisted: great, i'm just now playing with the (daily?) snapshots. Well, some apps are w/o funcitonality, but overall I am ipressed. Did you use the MokoMakefile? Jul 16 22:48:16 afk, sorry Jul 16 22:53:32 At least for CEST FIC didn't get the Neos out on the 16th. Well, what the heck, they'll eventually ship. You guys in the west still have a chance, I have to sleep now, by Jul 16 22:53:50 IMO - shipping before charging CCs unlikely. Jul 16 22:58:07 there is a jabber client on openMoko plateforme? Jul 16 22:58:11 plateform* Jul 16 22:58:47 a lot of people are interested in empathy and telepathy-framework based stuff Jul 16 22:59:25 Any news? Jul 16 22:59:27 counter Jul 16 22:59:27 (last update 2007-07-14 16:40) http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter : Order https://direct.openmoko.com/ ; Shipping prob. 65% in 18:30:14 (0.771±0.8 days) (1749;248) Jul 16 22:59:36 No ce: Jul 16 23:01:55 what is empathy and telepathy-framework stuff? Jul 16 23:03:38 empathy is a fork of Gossip to use telepathy Jul 16 23:03:57 telepathy is a multiple-backends-as-separate-processes system for IM and other user-to-user channels. Jul 16 23:04:05 (including voice and video signaling) Jul 16 23:11:19 i'm trying to follow the 'Building OpenMoko from scratch' wiki page. but i get an error i'm not sure how i should fix: http://pastebin.ca/622534 Jul 16 23:11:22 any hints? Jul 16 23:14:17 this was asked here before, and the suggestions was: you need to create a simlink of include/asm/page.h from linux source to /usr/include/asm/page.h Jul 16 23:14:54 ah, thank you very much Jul 16 23:20:30 should add the answer to the wiki Jul 16 23:21:29 yes, you should Jul 16 23:22:56 * * OM Bug 641 has been created by ajmitch(AT)ubuntu.com Jul 16 23:22:57 * * Coreutils fails to build with glibc 2.6 Jul 16 23:22:59 * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=641 Jul 16 23:24:53 that bot is quick :) Jul 16 23:27:50 i shouldnt; i've never even read teh wiki page in question or understand the issue Jul 16 23:36:57 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Talk:Modular_phone]] [[Talk:Wish_List_-_Hardware]] [[User:Alf]] [[Modular_phone]] [[P1_Owners]] [[Wishlist_-_Hardware_-_Novel_Devices]] [[Wish_List_-_Hardware]] [[Mokopedia]] Jul 16 23:37:31 curse my bank, which takes at least a day to tell me if my card has been charged Jul 16 23:46:38 when will we find out shipping dates dudes - just been down the pub :) Jul 16 23:46:58 sometime after cc's get charged ;) Jul 16 23:47:23 anyones card been charged yet? Jul 16 23:49:07 I'll take that as a no :( Jul 17 00:19:50 The nearer it gets, the longer the wait becomes Jul 17 00:21:16 Hmm... no news is good news? Jul 17 00:25:32 No news is a superposition of the potential news? Jul 17 00:29:30 i'm sure the cat will still be both dead and alive if we just peek a *little* Jul 17 00:30:12 Either that or the potential futures will fragment. Jul 17 00:30:16 If you follow many worlds anyway. Jul 17 00:32:27 the quantum collapse will eat your neo, leaving you with nothing but some radiation output. Jul 17 00:32:43 we have to have write access to the svn repo to perform the build process? Jul 17 00:33:09 no Jul 17 00:33:21 i wouldnt think so Jul 17 00:33:41 why do you ask? Jul 17 00:34:19 well i want to build from scratch. Jul 17 00:34:31 i only have a pc right now so im wondering how far i can get Jul 17 00:35:21 run vmware, install debian etch, install all the prereqs on the mokomakefile wiki page, run mokomakefile, run your built image in qemu, done. Jul 17 00:35:21 and the from scratch wiki under the permissions section says that Jul 17 00:35:36 im on gentoo Jul 17 00:35:41 already.. Jul 17 00:35:47 just run the mokomakefile then Jul 17 00:35:48 why vmware Jul 17 00:36:00 i dont have any source checked out yet Jul 17 00:36:29 oh, you said PC and I incorrectly assumed windows. Jul 17 00:36:32 looking for the line svn co /the/source/tree Jul 17 00:36:38 i think the mokomakefile automatically gets everything you need Jul 17 00:36:39 sorry Jul 17 00:36:42 my fault Jul 17 00:36:48 really? cool Jul 17 00:36:49 no, bad assumption on my part Jul 17 00:37:50 and nice to meet you rob. Jul 17 00:37:53 btw Jul 17 00:38:10 is mokomake file in portage? Jul 17 00:38:38 not yet =) Jul 17 00:39:09 :-) Jul 17 00:39:24 whats this about freebsd.. Jul 17 00:39:42 * BlackBsd wonders Jul 17 00:43:33 do we need a certain version of bitbake? Jul 17 00:44:53 i think i'm using the one suggested on the wiki. i'm pretty sure you don't have to actually install it Jul 17 00:45:44 following the wiki page i built it as the 'moko' user and just skipped installing it Jul 17 00:46:07 so you built the code you checked out? Jul 17 00:46:15 yes Jul 17 00:46:30 i'm guessing that you're asking because they're all masked in gentoo? Jul 17 00:46:46 well bitbake so far is. Jul 17 00:46:59 so can i still use mokomakefile Jul 17 00:47:15 i think i'm doing what the mokomakefile does Jul 17 00:48:19 because the mokomakefile was able to use bitbake without having had root access Jul 17 00:49:16 i need to start dl'ing the source. Jul 17 00:49:20 downloading Jul 17 00:59:13 mokomakefile downloads, patches, and uses it's own bitbake. Jul 17 00:59:34 (since openmoko has local patches to it) Jul 17 01:05:56 so do i still need to emerge bitbake? Jul 17 01:06:06 BlackBsd, no Jul 17 01:15:27 should i be running a bash shell when running make? Jul 17 01:15:55 sometimes i have had issues when compiling software if i was using a tcsh Jul 17 01:17:36 good question Jul 17 01:17:52 if you have bash, couldn't you run the make under it from within the tcsh shell? Jul 17 01:17:59 i will let you know :-) Jul 17 01:18:08 =) Jul 17 01:18:11 yes Jul 17 01:18:42 i like the command completion and spell checking in tcsh Jul 17 01:18:50 and case insensitivity Jul 17 01:18:58 :-) Jul 17 01:19:04 BlackBsd: doesn't mokomakefile and everything it calls use only /bin/sh? Jul 17 01:19:21 BlackBsd: if your /bin/sh is bash or dash, it should work no matter what your login shell is... Jul 17 01:19:21 the 16th is pretty much over. any updates on the neo shipment? Jul 17 01:19:31 don-o: no Jul 17 01:19:50 right. Jul 17 01:21:57 cesarb, yes your correct. Jul 17 01:32:12 IPhones Flooding Wireless LAN At Duke: http://hardware.slashdot.org/hardware/07/07/16/232258.shtml Jul 17 01:32:30 It would be interesting to find out what's the cause, to avoid the neo having a similar problem with GTA02 Jul 17 01:33:37 * Bryc1 pings the room Jul 17 01:36:55 i had an iphone for 4 days Jul 17 01:37:00 then took it back Jul 17 01:37:17 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Modular_phone]] [[SH1_FAQ]] [[FAQ]] [[User:Alf]] [[Talk:Modular_phone]] Jul 17 01:37:37 why'd ya do that BlackBsd Jul 17 01:37:59 i wonder if i will be able to use this phone with my kde apps like kontact Jul 17 01:38:16 bryc1 the phone had very little features Jul 17 01:38:21 for the price Jul 17 01:38:28 and it was unfriendly Jul 17 01:38:42 but the touch screens was sweet Jul 17 01:39:19 i think this phone will have all similar apps soon anyways Jul 17 01:39:20 my friend has an iphone and he can never get reception :) Jul 17 01:39:41 the maps app was sweet Jul 17 01:40:16 and this phone will have gps so who knows, maybe i can have an app to simulate tomtom Jul 17 01:40:26 mokmok Jul 17 01:40:43 :-) Jul 17 01:40:55 haha Jul 17 01:41:02 my boss has a Iphone he loves it Jul 17 01:41:18 plus the edge service is slow Jul 17 01:41:20 they're pretty cool, and durable as all hell, that's the only reason i'd consider one Jul 17 01:41:34 haha you should try 1xrtt service on verizon!!! Jul 17 01:41:57 and i had to fight like mad to get them to open that and turn of per kb usage, so that i could surf the web free nights and weekends Jul 17 01:42:09 i like thtat the iphone just connected to different networks when edge was not available Jul 17 01:42:24 that was pretty cool Jul 17 01:42:24 actually a question i had was what service would i need if i got an openmoko? i tried looking it up but didnt see anything Jul 17 01:42:25 Siph0n: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (and also SH1_FAQ, Neo1973, Developer_preview and Neo1973_Hardware#GTA01Bv4 pages) (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) Jul 17 01:42:26 but most do it Jul 17 01:42:53 siph0n the phone is unlocked, you need to have a carrier of gsm Jul 17 01:43:10 to use the moko, first you need to wait for the software support but any gsm network, tmobile, att, alltel, etc. Jul 17 01:43:32 is the moko quad band? (world phone) Jul 17 01:43:36 hah... yeah... who's from the us here? Jul 17 01:43:42 i'm from the US Jul 17 01:43:46 NJ actually Jul 17 01:43:48 i am Jul 17 01:43:49 .ca Jul 17 01:43:56 WV Jul 17 01:44:05 wv? Jul 17 01:44:05 Bryc1: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (and also SH1_FAQ, Neo1973, Developer_preview and Neo1973_Hardware#GTA01Bv4 pages) (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) Jul 17 01:44:21 west verginia, right near pittsburgh PA Jul 17 01:44:22 BlackBsd: thanks!!! :) ok Jul 17 01:44:27 im in US, NJ also :) Jul 17 01:44:27 what's the difference between Cingular GPRS and EDGE? Jul 17 01:44:31 virginia Jul 17 01:44:38 colorado Jul 17 01:44:51 nice. were still getting hit by huge amounts of users asking 'which service we provide' or 'which plan they need' Jul 17 01:45:07 wow openembeded snapshot took 20min to donwload Jul 17 01:45:36 ahh cool Jul 17 01:45:42 so i get to the point: how to explain something like the carrier|device seperation and sims to someone who never got explained the concept Jul 17 01:46:07 roh: explain carrier versus device first Jul 17 01:46:08 just use the isp example Jul 17 01:46:14 roh: the SIM is just a technical detail Jul 17 01:46:50 you have a computer (phone) and you connect to the word wide web (network) via Embarq (att, tmobile, alltel etc.) Jul 17 01:46:55 roh: agree with Bryc1, another cool example would be POTS, where you can buy any old phone and connect to your phone line Jul 17 01:47:18 cesarb heh.. the important detail since its the only thing which enables you to use any device and the carrier does not need to care either Jul 17 01:47:24 cesarb: be careful with that one becuase then they'll think any carrier, bring up the major gsm carriers Jul 17 01:47:30 roh: but no matter what you do, leave the SIM part to the end, since it will confuse people Jul 17 01:48:03 Bryc1: well, around here ALL carriers are GSM (even the CDMA one is starting to use GSM too), so I tend to forget about that detail ;-) Jul 17 01:48:04 just call the sim, a "memory chip for your address book" (yes that bastardized an example) and most people will be happy enough Jul 17 01:48:05 cesarb it already starts at cdma.. people seem to have no clue that there are 2 completely different and incompatible technologies on the market in the us Jul 17 01:48:44 I'd call it something like "the chip that stores your phone number" Jul 17 01:49:10 Arachnid: that's a good one too, a bit more accurate because not all sims store address book etc Jul 17 01:49:24 cesarb: where are you at that they're all switching to gsm? Jul 17 01:49:34 at this point, do we really want to attract people that don't understand even the basics? Jul 17 01:49:43 Well, we DO have a wiki, and that's what wiki are good at... Why not start a page explaining these details? Jul 17 01:49:49 Bryc1: Rio de Janeiro Jul 17 01:50:09 cjb_ie: the main problem is that we've already attracted these people Jul 17 01:50:11 cjb_ie its not about that. its about answering questions people have and continue to ask Jul 17 01:50:16 cjb_ie: we have to dispell the confusion Jul 17 01:50:34 cesarb: lucky you, out here we've got sprint and verizon who will be diehard cdma till they die Jul 17 01:51:05 cjb_ie i'm a techie from europe.. so i'd rather ask someone who understands the fundamental problem first before answering a question which i would never believed to be asked ;) Jul 17 01:51:08 roh: oh i see what you mean, but rgtfaq is a bit of a pain Jul 17 01:51:28 rgtfaq? Jul 17 01:51:48 Bryc1: I think the problem with Vivo was that not only they had the CDMA, TDMA, and AMPS coverage, but they bought another carrier which used GSM Jul 17 01:51:58 Bryc1: so, to get out of that mess, they started a move to GSM Jul 17 01:52:05 Bryc1: that's my guess only, of course Jul 17 01:52:15 cesarb: ok that makes sense Jul 17 01:52:24 Bryc1: the other carriers, one started as AMPS -> TDMA -> GSM, the other two were GSM since the beginning Jul 17 01:52:37 i's only suggest the two who have been and are gsm Jul 17 01:52:52 that way they won't have any bad carrier experience and tie it to the phone "getting crappy signal" Jul 17 01:52:55 Bryc1: I can get you the Wikipedia articles for the carriers if you want... the carrier situation around here is a bit confusing Jul 17 01:53:04 that would be awesome Jul 17 01:53:10 i wish that the wiki search worked better Jul 17 01:53:14 Bryc1: I use the one who went AMPS -> TDMA -> GSM, and there are no problems Jul 17 01:53:16 i can never find jack s*** on there Jul 17 01:53:26 the documentation is in .doc format Jul 17 01:53:32 i guess to be widely supported Jul 17 01:53:39 :-) Jul 17 01:53:47 cesarb: really? wow what a great infrastructure you guys must have out there, here the cdma evdo thing is a hassle is a support nightmare Jul 17 01:54:19 yeah if you could link me to the faq that'd be great Jul 17 01:54:32 i'll brb gotta grab some water Jul 17 01:54:35 see, in sensible countries, it's all GSM, and has been for years Jul 17 01:54:56 * cjb_ie gets back under his bridge Jul 17 01:55:10 how bout ogg support? Jul 17 01:55:13 Bryc1: the TDMA -> GSM transition is already sort of way behind us, so it's the TDMA service which would be the crappy one. On Vivo, unfortunately the CDMA is the good one, and GSM the crappy one, but that's because the migration has just been started (some months ago IIRC) Jul 17 01:56:25 BlackBsd: already there, I think Jul 17 01:56:41 i just checked out an ogg :-) nice.. Jul 17 01:56:41 not that I've had a chance to try it yet Jul 17 01:56:56 must be some support Jul 17 01:57:13 unless its on the todo list Jul 17 01:57:22 either works for me Jul 17 02:00:16 * Bryc1 back Jul 17 02:00:29 cesarb: ok, that makes sense to me Jul 17 02:00:40 anyone know if there's a reasonably complete article on the wiki fo todo's? Jul 17 02:00:46 i mean the bugzilla is a beast Jul 17 02:04:10 anyone have a nice simple way to ssh into the qemu session? Jul 17 02:05:02 Bryc1: if you are using an emulated NIC with -net user, simply do a redirect on qemu's command line Jul 17 02:06:47 ok Jul 17 02:06:51 that makes sense Jul 17 02:07:07 i was trying to set up a full virtual interface and having some issues Jul 17 02:08:36 pipes work wonders... Jul 17 02:09:15 darn, my isp is throtteling me.. i svn co died Jul 17 02:09:37 Aw, man Jul 17 02:09:41 guess i got to wait an hour before it pickes back up.. Jul 17 02:09:50 dont waste your money on satelite internet btw.. Jul 17 02:10:55 Got that right. Jul 17 02:11:04 heh Jul 17 02:12:05 * ferric goes to find and fix his freebsd box. Jul 17 02:12:38 sat-net is nice when you're on a cruise ship in the middle of the ocean Jul 17 02:17:21 * Bryc1 loves my monowall router Jul 17 02:22:42 roh: take a look at http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Explaining_carriers_versus_phones (not yet complete) which I just started Jul 17 02:22:45 so some apps will require kdelibs? Jul 17 02:22:58 so we can make qt apps for the phone? Jul 17 02:23:16 (people from the US, please help... I'm not sure I explained the confused US situation well enough) Jul 17 02:25:06 how about: "this is a PDA. if you want to use it as a phone, then you can connect it to a carrier you choose, if that carrier has a 'GSM' network." Jul 17 02:26:41 sounds good to me. Jul 17 02:27:04 if not you can connect to your own lan to access the net.. Jul 17 02:27:05 cesarb thanks.. thats already quite comprehensive Jul 17 02:27:39 roh: I'm finishing the section on the SIM card right now Jul 17 02:27:50 "this phone should be usable on any GSM network - just as if you'd purchased an unlocked phone from Motorola or Nokia (for example)" Jul 17 02:28:05 why not just call them "different wireless plugs" Jul 17 02:28:23 Bryc1: nice analogy, but might make people go "huh?" Jul 17 02:29:32 "each wireless network has a type of signal that it allows, some only work with gsm and some only work with cdma, it's like a european plug versus an american plug Jul 17 02:29:39 cjb_ie: i see waht you mean Jul 17 02:29:49 Bryc1: some americans have no idea europeans use another plug Jul 17 02:29:54 how about AM versus FM radio Jul 17 02:29:59 they don't count Jul 17 02:30:01 lol Jul 17 02:30:20 god, are we explaining things to americans now? Jul 17 02:30:22 what a waste of time Jul 17 02:30:24 :-P Jul 17 02:30:26 AM vs FM might be a better analogy Jul 17 02:30:33 you can mention that cdma carriers hold you hostage by locking all your data, messages, games, etc. in the phone. Jul 17 02:30:40 why is an analogy needed at all? Jul 17 02:30:44 with gsm, your data is stored on a movable chip Jul 17 02:30:54 nice little freedom of choice point there Jul 17 02:30:58 it seemed pretty clear to me Jul 17 02:31:01 ckuethe: only some of your data. Jul 17 02:31:07 yeah, i know Jul 17 02:31:17 but we're being all fluffy and high-level here Jul 17 02:31:20 but most importantly the phone activation data Jul 17 02:31:46 hmmm... why not just say that it can only hear a certain signal, a gsm signal, and it can't hear a cdma signal Jul 17 02:32:30 because that's an obnoxious anthropomorphism. Jul 17 02:32:47 whys' it obnoxious Jul 17 02:32:59 maybe the cable internet vs dsl internet comparison? Jul 17 02:33:08 Bryc1: i guess maybe it seems patronising? Jul 17 02:33:38 you have your choice of carriers, but in the end it's just about letting you communicate. Jul 17 02:34:15 it does seem patronising; these are not hard concepts Jul 17 02:34:17 how about "to use this phone, you'll need to go to a carrier and buy a sim pack" Jul 17 02:34:25 cjb_ie: maybe a bit but it's not a bad example Jul 17 02:34:39 madewokherd: have you met most of the population? Jul 17 02:35:01 do you expect most of the population to read the openmoko wiki? Jul 17 02:35:23 http://www.myworldphone.com/faq.html Jul 17 02:35:23 how about "if you still need this page after reading the rest of the wiki, please send a message with "CANCEL" in the body to orders@openmoko.com so a developer can have a phone" Jul 17 02:35:34 only if someone asks and gets directed to it Jul 17 02:36:16 these are phase 1 phones there better not be any consumers getting them, then agian, might be able to get a decent deal on them Jul 17 02:36:19 lol Jul 17 02:36:40 Is quadband all of the gsm bands? Jul 17 02:36:42 oh jeez it does't work Jul 17 02:36:48 i'll give you a 20 and i'll tinker with it Jul 17 02:37:00 galexande: yes i belive so Jul 17 02:37:06 quad covers all the voice/gprs bands Jul 17 02:37:24 umts/hsdpa muddy the picture Jul 17 02:38:07 of course :) Jul 17 02:38:55 anyone have minimo up and going on the qemu image? Jul 17 02:39:50 roh: finished Jul 17 02:40:25 everyone take a look at http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Explaining_carriers_versus_phones to see if I didn't write anything wrong Jul 17 02:41:24 anyone have a web interface like cgiirc to this chan Jul 17 02:41:25 galexande: actually, quad band is NOT all the traditional GSM bands... look at the wiki, there are FIVE bands Jul 17 02:41:42 galexande: but nobody uses the 450MHz one Jul 17 02:41:53 s/the wiki/wikipedia/ Jul 17 02:42:09 what, 450MHz GSM exists? Jul 17 02:42:12 scary Jul 17 02:42:20 well, even theoretically Jul 17 02:43:37 cesarb look really good Jul 17 02:43:55 anyway yeah, seems okay Jul 17 02:44:02 mjr: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GSM_frequency_bands Jul 17 02:44:09 yeah if i remember the map the 5th one is in the south pacific or something like that Jul 17 02:44:11 huh, it would be neat if it would do TDMA AMPS Jul 17 02:44:16 chances are if you are ther eyou won't be needing your cel :) Jul 17 02:44:17 "There is currently one GSM-400 network in Tanzania" Jul 17 02:44:26 galexande: definitely NO Jul 17 02:44:37 heh Jul 17 02:44:38 galexande: I wouldn't buy a phone which could do TDMA/AMPS Jul 17 02:44:44 cesarb: all you need is a software radio! :) Jul 17 02:44:45 galexande: it's cloning city with these Jul 17 02:45:02 SpeedEvil: and a car battery Jul 17 02:45:03 before merging with cingular, at&t still used that for roaming Jul 17 02:45:45 cesarb: article looks good Jul 17 02:47:12 * Bryc1 sighs Jul 17 02:47:34 after i get this phone i'm going to have to pick up one of those pre-paid phones and transfer the sim to the gta01 Jul 17 02:47:39 are their any future visions on using other tookits such as kde or qt? Jul 17 02:47:46 any news if they have been posted yet? Jul 17 02:47:48 as opposed to gtk? Jul 17 02:47:53 BlackBsd: why? Jul 17 02:48:26 no reason, its just i have written alot of qt apps and not many gtk apps Jul 17 02:48:58 i'm still trying to decide if i want to do apps or try and setup initng Jul 17 02:48:59 that sounds like a bad reason to switch. Jul 17 02:49:17 what is going with the shipment Jul 17 02:49:17 Bryc1: I'm going to get the SIM from my only cell phone and transfer it to the gta01 for development, back to the Razr for normal use, back to the neo for development... It's going to pingpong a lot, I hope I don't wear out the contacts before the neo has working dialing/SMS Jul 17 02:49:26 yes i know, just wondered.. Jul 17 02:49:38 still do not have any feedback about my order, it is about a week now Jul 17 02:49:38 wow, cdma is trippy Jul 17 02:50:00 blackbsd, gtk is much better than qt, you will enjoy it. :) Jul 17 02:50:10 cesarb: haha you atealst have a gsm carrier! i've got verizon so i've gotta pay extra for the dang thing and i've gotta find a pay per use phone that doesn't have a locked sim Jul 17 02:50:11 cjb: with the neo, it's a good enough reason... you want qt, you can have qt! (come on, it's the main reason I want a neo!) Jul 17 02:50:27 ist c as opposed to c++. not that thats a bad thing Jul 17 02:50:30 galexande: they're different, i wouldn't say one is better than the other Jul 17 02:50:39 bryc, i do not get the impression that there are locked sims in general. Jul 17 02:50:39 Bryc1: I don't think you will find a locked SIM... it's the phones that are locked, not the SIMs... Jul 17 02:51:00 i will certainly report back if i am unsuccessful at using a tracfone sim with it Jul 17 02:51:23 the confusion arises because phones that are locked to specific sims are referred to as "sim-locked" Jul 17 02:51:24 cesarb: that's heartening news galexande i'll report as well how mine goes Jul 17 02:51:34 i've sitll gotta save up that 450 for the whole kit Jul 17 02:51:40 i with i could buy the jtag board and extras separetly Jul 17 02:52:05 why do you think you need jtag? Jul 17 02:52:06 jackey: relax about the order they're getting flogged Jul 17 02:52:26 If you don't know exactly why you need JTAG, you don't need ti. Prolly. Jul 17 02:52:29 check this out for some info http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/SH1_FAQ Jul 17 02:52:33 Brycl, thanks Jul 17 02:52:48 Sean told me to review it, i did Jul 17 02:52:50 does anyone have the app in /home/root/DM2/gps ? Jul 17 02:53:00 gps? Jul 17 02:53:02 I have a p1 but can't find that binary-only gps driver Jul 17 02:53:08 bmidgley: yes. Jul 17 02:53:09 is it really work? Jul 17 02:53:14 jackey: yes Jul 17 02:53:22 bmidgley, who'd you have to kill Jul 17 02:53:24 Hi SpeedEvil Jul 17 02:53:24 cjb hardware hacking Jul 17 02:53:31 cjb: is it online anywhere? Jul 17 02:53:31 also i can recover any bricked device Jul 17 02:53:35 Bryc1: huh, interesting. like what? Jul 17 02:53:50 jackey: no problem Jul 17 02:53:54 well, I can recover any bricked kernel/NAND without it, and I don't plan on modifying uboot. Jul 17 02:54:08 galexande: I was chosen for a p0 but didn't reply to the email on time... ended up with a prototype p1 Jul 17 02:54:10 bmidgley: no, it's not on the web anyway; openmoko employees even told me they can't distribute it to me (!). Jul 17 02:54:20 but I have a copy. Jul 17 02:54:29 cjb: hmmm ;) Jul 17 02:54:37 cjb what a bit of magic you have there! Jul 17 02:55:02 cjb, i've analyzed the clues you have provided and determined how you have it: Jul 17 02:55:04 you wrote it!! Jul 17 02:55:14 heh. faulty logic, I'm afraid :) Jul 17 02:55:19 *sigh* Jul 17 02:55:38 gps shoudl be an open module Jul 17 02:55:42 shouldn't be closed Jul 17 02:56:08 unless i'm completely misaken Jul 17 02:56:37 i think if you read the wiki, this device is as close to open as you will ever get Jul 17 02:56:52 wifi for example can never be open sourced in the u.s. becaues there are laws preventing that Jul 17 02:57:17 at the radio level, maybe not Jul 17 02:57:25 but at some layer of abstraction... Jul 17 02:57:56 holycow: huh? look at the intel wireless to the best of my knowledge it's full gpl Jul 17 02:58:12 gpl+firmware Jul 17 02:58:16 not the firmware Jul 17 02:58:23 well, gpl module and binary firmware Jul 17 02:58:25 Doesn't intel still have a userspace app too? Jul 17 02:58:26 happycube: i know that's the case with atheros and on Jul 17 02:58:34 the userspace app got moved into the firmware Jul 17 02:58:36 its either fully open sourced or its not Jul 17 02:58:45 wifi simply cannot be free in the u.s. Jul 17 02:58:46 happycube: i thought the intel was a hardware not firmware solution Jul 17 02:58:48 there's a difference - intel firmware is in the chip Jul 17 02:59:00 right Jul 17 02:59:01 the atheros hal is a binary-only cpu-side module Jul 17 02:59:06 holycow: my Wavelan card disagrees with you Jul 17 02:59:20 holycow: the gps app is not open source. Jul 17 02:59:24 a lot of the early cards had full flash inside Jul 17 02:59:29 sorry, s/holycow/Bryc1/ Jul 17 02:59:42 they're coming back to that now that it can be put on-die - atheros 6k and presumably newer **** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Jul 17 02:59:59 2007