**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Jul 21 02:59:58 2007 Jul 21 03:37:08 openembedded is headache-inducing... WHY, for instance, does it build gcc two times? Jul 21 03:41:41 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[P1_Owners]] [[Press_Coverage]] Jul 21 03:44:48 does it build libraries with it after the first time? Jul 21 04:06:19 Probably builds gcc and then builds gcc with the built gcc. Jul 21 04:17:16 is libxml included in openmoko ? Jul 21 04:22:21 Helloo Jul 21 04:33:38 cesar: because it's a cross-build. Jul 21 04:46:08 Do you if GTA02 come with 3g support? Jul 21 04:50:46 faq Jul 21 04:50:46 See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (and also SH1_FAQ, Neo1973, Developer_preview and Neo1973_Hardware#GTA01Bv4 pages) Jul 21 04:50:52 (answer is no) Jul 21 04:51:41 some future device: good guess would be that there will be device with 3G at some point ;-) Jul 21 04:53:00 has anybody yet prebuilt a xoo rootfs image or qemu image I could borrow ;) Jul 21 04:55:05 * rtyler is already fetching this: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Test_Openmoko_Emulation_with_chroot_image Jul 21 05:00:57 what's the advantage of using xoo instead of qemu ? Jul 21 05:01:15 Skwid_: Xoo actually installed on my frakking machine >_< Jul 21 05:01:29 lol ok Jul 21 05:01:31 on my Xubuntu box Qemu just won't find SDL, and in turn won't install Jul 21 05:02:24 too bad Virtual Box doesn't do arm Jul 21 05:02:55 i have an application in C / Gtk that i would like to port to openmoko, but im not sure where to start Jul 21 05:03:23 oh, i just found the hello world tutorial Jul 21 05:03:25 i'll start there Jul 21 05:03:30 Skwid_: same place I am, purchasing the dev machine, and then start trying to emulate :P Jul 21 05:04:48 now what i want is to get some test code running on the emulator :) Jul 21 05:04:55 ditto :P Jul 21 05:05:43 rtyler: then we should write it on the wiki, when we manage to do it ;) Jul 21 05:05:59 Skwid_: I work at a web 2.0 company, I'm going to blog about it :P Jul 21 05:06:15 ill paste it int the wiki then :) Jul 21 05:07:38 blogging is truely a body function. ;) Jul 21 05:08:31 * rtyler squeezes Jul 21 05:08:56 is there any other paege that tells how to start programming for openmoko ? the hello world one isnt really helpful Jul 21 05:09:21 Skwid_: it depends on what you're doing I think Jul 21 05:12:02 like how to get your app to show up in the menu, how to package it, how to include the libs you need etc Jul 21 05:12:09 :( /trunk/src/host/qemu-neo1973/block-qcow.c:26:18: zlib.h: No such file or directory Jul 21 05:12:09 /h yesterday make qemu worked on that machine or is this due to changes in moko trunk? any help Jul 21 05:13:47 mil_: I'm still at the point of getting QEMU working :'( Jul 21 05:14:28 * mil_ zlib-dev files? hopes that works.. Jul 21 05:14:41 * juri_ is patching qemu's disk handling, at the moment. Jul 21 05:23:09 howdy everyone Jul 21 05:23:31 hey Jul 21 05:39:31 * rtyler waves Jul 21 05:39:35 aloril thanks :) I didn't your response until now Jul 21 05:40:51 huzzah, qemu from the openbox repo is finally building Jul 21 05:41:01 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Basic_End-user/ru]] [[%D0%98%D0%BD%D1%84%D0%BE%D1%80%D0%BC%D0%B0%D1%86%D0%B8%D1%8F_%D0%B4%D0%BB%D1%8F_%D0%BF%D0%BE%D0%BB%D1%8C%D0%B7%D0%BE%D0%B2%D0%B0%D1%82%D0%B5%D0%BB%D0%B5%D0%B9]] [[Main_Page/ru]] Jul 21 05:48:58 * Skwid1 wants a real tutorial on how to get a simple GTK app running on openmoko :( Jul 21 05:49:43 Skwid1: figure it out man :) Jul 21 05:49:58 i'm trying Jul 21 05:50:18 if it wasn't *vomits* Gtk, I could help :P Jul 21 05:50:31 well the Gtk part is taken care of Jul 21 05:50:43 it's the whole distribution thing Jul 21 06:04:16 Skwid1: Im having lots of fun with that as well Jul 21 06:04:36 cibomahto: with what ? Jul 21 06:06:25 skwid1: getting a patch to be used by the qemu image Jul 21 06:06:48 skwid1: im pretty new to most of these tools, so its taking time to go through everything Jul 21 06:06:49 yeah Jul 21 06:06:52 me too Jul 21 06:06:57 i'm completely confused Jul 21 06:07:01 haha Jul 21 06:07:04 yeah... Jul 21 06:07:21 i just want to add a test application that can be accessed through the main menu Jul 21 06:07:27 but I haven't been successful yet :) Jul 21 06:07:30 right, right Jul 21 06:07:50 im just trying to patch gsmd Jul 21 06:08:08 eventually, it will work Jul 21 06:08:19 :) Jul 21 06:09:56 i wish there was more docs on the wiki Jul 21 06:11:25 yeah Jul 21 06:16:36 i give up for toda Jul 21 06:16:37 today Jul 21 06:19:19 hrm, for some reason, I can't get the qemu image to respond to the keyboard Jul 21 06:19:31 neo_vib_switch: Vibrator stopped. Jul 21 06:19:31 neo_bl_switch: LCD Backlight now on. Jul 21 06:19:31 pcf_write: Power-off requested. Jul 21 06:19:34 * rtyler sighs Jul 21 06:19:41 skwid1: well, dont get too discouraged :-) Jul 21 06:19:44 Keyboard meaning the USB keyboard? Jul 21 06:19:50 Or the screen keyboard? Jul 21 06:20:00 I don't get past the bootloader Jul 21 06:20:05 (with QEMU) Jul 21 06:20:10 ah Jul 21 06:20:55 any thoughts? Jul 21 06:21:38 Well, I'd be surprised if it would respond to keypresses at that point - it probably will only respond to touch screen presses (that is, mouse clicks)./ Jul 21 06:22:05 it says "Press [AUX] to select, [POWER] to execute Jul 21 06:22:30 Well, press power! Jul 21 06:22:33 Ah. It's talking about a hard button on the unit. Jul 21 06:22:44 I don't have a unit >_> Jul 21 06:22:51 this is with qemu Jul 21 06:22:54 I know, but it probably thinks you have one. Jul 21 06:22:54 mellon: this is mapped to [space] on my keyboard Jul 21 06:22:55 Enter and Spacebar map to Power and AUX on qemu Jul 21 06:23:04 ah, okay. Jul 21 06:23:09 or do I actually need the hardware somehow for QEMU o_O Jul 21 06:23:35 nono, you just need it to emulate something that looks like the hardware. Jul 21 06:23:35 mwester: I thought so, but it doesn't do anything :/ Jul 21 06:23:50 (running over X11 over SSH) Jul 21 06:23:55 using these: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/OpenMoko_under_QEMU Jul 21 06:23:56 Does qemu do the "capture the mouse and keyboard" thing? Jul 21 06:25:07 not responding to anything >_< Jul 21 06:25:40 counter_msg (last update 2007-07-21 06:20) http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter : Order https://direct.openmoko.com/ ; Shipping prob. 75% in Jul 21 06:25:40 aloril changed counter prefix message to (last update 2007-07-21 06:20) http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter : Order https://direct.openmoko.com/ ; Shipping prob. 75% in Jul 21 06:25:41 jbt6k74_command: Display on. Jul 21 06:25:43 neo_vib_switch: Buzz, buzz. Jul 21 06:25:46 * rtyler chickles Jul 21 06:25:50 chuckles* rather Jul 21 06:25:59 that wiki page seems to be talking about what to do after you've gotten it to boot. Jul 21 06:26:00 just adjusted guess ;-) Jul 21 06:26:02 counter Jul 21 06:26:02 (last update 2007-07-21 06:20) http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter : Order https://direct.openmoko.com/ ; Shipping prob. 75% in 4 days 17:33:52 (4.732±2.5 days) (1765;249) Jul 21 06:27:08 mellon: yeah I noticed :P Jul 21 06:27:10 any ideas? :/ Jul 21 06:27:29 I'm pretty clueless at this point. Check back with me when I've gotten it to work. :'} Jul 21 06:27:42 Right now I'm still waiting for it to build. Jul 21 06:28:29 GAH >_< Jul 21 06:28:42 But anyway, the thing that's going to trigger hardware buttons is not an emulated USB channel. Jul 21 06:30:40 Can you click on the image and *then* try typing? Jul 21 06:30:45 the screen image, I mean. Jul 21 06:30:49 yeah, no dice :/ Jul 21 06:30:54 BUT Jul 21 06:30:55 http://www.flickr.com/photos/agentdero/863257156/ Jul 21 06:30:57 that's hot :P Jul 21 06:31:17 Is that you? Jul 21 06:31:24 yep Jul 21 06:31:35 Nice, so you have it running on your Mac. Jul 21 06:31:40 heh, nope Jul 21 06:31:51 SSH tunnel to the dual core opteron sitting next to me Jul 21 06:32:00 Ah. Jul 21 06:32:05 Close enough. Jul 21 06:32:19 if it ran Jul 21 06:32:40 typing to the shell window that you're running qemu under doesn't work, I take it. Jul 21 06:32:46 that is, e.g., hitting space or ret. Jul 21 06:32:52 (urn) Jul 21 06:33:01 nope :/ Jul 21 06:33:15 Shoot. Jul 21 06:34:01 GARRRHHH Jul 21 06:34:11 I'm stumped. These things are always easier to get working when you can put your hands on the thing. :'( Jul 21 06:34:28 made the order, haven't heard anything from them :/ Jul 21 06:35:08 Your X server is running on a mac, then? Jul 21 06:35:12 yes Jul 21 06:35:24 and the X client is qemu... Jul 21 06:36:00 so what does ssh have to do with this once qemu is running and has a window open on the X server? Jul 21 06:36:09 nothing Jul 21 06:36:11 :) Jul 21 06:37:04 Yep - you need to give focus to the qemu window, and X should pass the key events to the client. If you can fire up and interact with xterm, you should expect that it would work with qemu Jul 21 06:38:09 * CM leaves for 2 weeks vacation :D Jul 21 06:39:18 I would try googling to see if anyone has encountered general issues with your X server software and qemu. Otherwise, you might have to put a keyboard and mouse, and cable your display over to the opteron. Jul 21 06:40:46 (Or I suppose you could try VNC as well -- I use VNC to export the desktop from my Linux system to my Windows box.) Jul 21 06:47:51 SDL might be an issue Jul 21 06:49:11 has anyone a datasheet of the omap850 from ti? by ti it isn't available Jul 21 06:50:51 Si02: i think thats under NDA Jul 21 06:51:26 fu**. :( Jul 21 06:51:46 why? i think a lot of developers would b8uild good stuff Jul 21 06:51:49 -8 Jul 21 06:54:13 oh ya, i never was clear on that Jul 21 06:54:37 certain specs say GTA02 has video hw acceleration Jul 21 06:54:46 what does that really mean Jul 21 06:54:55 It means it can play video. Jul 21 06:55:05 so a codec chip? Jul 21 06:55:14 I think it's multiporpoise. Jul 21 06:55:28 I thought there was some detail about this in the wiki. Jul 21 06:55:46 i'll double check, the wiki rocks Jul 21 06:58:09 Si02: wait, what are you thinking about the omap850? Jul 21 06:58:42 Blech, no, it doesn't actually do H.264, although it does do MPEG4. Jul 21 06:59:13 Si02: i was thinking it was the Calypso baseband for the OpenMoko, but I can't find that information. Whatever is in the phone, its under NDA Jul 21 06:59:15 You need the 3370 for H.264. Too bad, without H.264 you really don't have video. Jul 21 06:59:34 hrmph Jul 21 06:59:44 it doesn't seem to like the nvidia driver on my linux box Jul 21 06:59:45 http://www.smediatech.com/product3362.htm Jul 21 07:01:34 Of course, the 3370 won't support the LCD, so it's a catch-22. Jul 21 07:02:25 this is why im confused Jul 21 07:02:45 Sorry, why? Jul 21 07:03:17 in the comparison chart it lists 2d/3d, what do them mean by that? is it analogus to a desktop machines video card? Jul 21 07:03:37 if thats the case, would compiz type effects be possible? Jul 21 07:03:38 Not necessarily, but it's enough to enable accelerated OpenGL, I think. Jul 21 07:03:40 Yes. Jul 21 07:03:50 Although why you'd want to burn battery on that I don't know. Jul 21 07:04:00 The main thing that I think is a real win is scaling. Jul 21 07:04:27 If you can do scaling without burning a lot of battery, that would let you do an iPhone-style browser. Jul 21 07:04:55 there are lots of potential uses, on a small touchscreen to create more logical space in a physical space, thats pretty exciting news imho Jul 21 07:05:07 Sure, that's what scaling gets you! Jul 21 07:05:31 no contest, but that isn't the *only* advantage Jul 21 07:05:46 Scaling lets you visualize a larger workspace. And actually on a screen as fine as the Neo's, that's a big deal. Jul 21 07:06:00 I guess the other stuff is okay too... :') Jul 21 07:06:51 my only point is that on a device where the upper limits are going to be explored, it's nice to know they are set rather high Jul 21 07:07:05 Sure. Jul 21 07:07:53 is the device the 3365 or the 3362? Jul 21 07:08:23 THe parts are the same except for the resolution. Jul 21 07:08:32 The Neo requires the higher-resolution part, which is the 3362. Jul 21 07:09:23 is the reported (per the chart) difference in audio significant? Jul 21 07:10:11 I can make up an answer for you if you want... :') I think the answer is no, because they're not using this chip for audio, but that's just a guess. Jul 21 07:10:27 yay! done qemu hacking for the night. :) Jul 21 07:10:28 "The stalker in your pocket" http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&articleId=9027438&pageNumber=1 Jul 21 07:10:29 mellon: IT'S ALIVE! Jul 21 07:10:38 w00t! what was the problem? Jul 21 07:10:38 running on my native linux desktop, Linux is booting ^_^ Jul 21 07:10:45 6. Get Neo1973 (or other OpenMoko using phone) Jul 21 07:10:55 Configuring gnome-vfs... Jul 21 07:10:59 * rtyler dances Jul 21 07:11:47 Can anyone access the uboot prompt successfully via virtual usb serial device when use QEMU to emulate neo1973 Jul 21 07:13:09 Okay, well, drunk in the glory of your success, rtyler, I think I am going to hit the sack. You kids have fun now! Jul 21 07:14:20 mellon: did you figure this all out already? :/ Jul 21 07:14:27 no! Jul 21 07:14:40 mellon: then don;t go to sleep :P Jul 21 07:14:43 KEEP HACKING! Jul 21 07:14:46 I'm actually starting to think of installing Gutsy on my Macbook. Jul 21 07:15:02 Gutsy? Jul 21 07:15:08 Feh, I'm waiting for an endless compile. Sleep is an excellent opportunity for some pipelining. Jul 21 07:15:11 Gutsy Gibbon. Jul 21 07:15:19 is that next after Feisty? Jul 21 07:15:21 It's pretty sweet. Not OSX, mind you. Jul 21 07:15:23 Yeah, I think so. Jul 21 07:23:51 Hello Jul 21 07:24:25 ahoy Jul 21 07:26:12 anybody able to actually get network connectivity from open moko on QEMU? Jul 21 07:33:30 rtyler, i'm tring to do the same thing with u, but when my host failed recoginze usb0 device Jul 21 07:34:08 man, that main menu interface is not fucking intuitive at *all* Jul 21 07:34:16 is there no network settings pane? :/ Jul 21 07:34:30 rtyler: it's still very much beta software Jul 21 07:34:38 yes, I am aware :) Jul 21 07:36:44 ahhh, mouse is stuck in a vertical scroller cursor >_< Jul 21 07:41:43 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Wish_List_-_Hardware]] [[Wish_List]] [[WM8753]] Jul 21 07:50:40 doc|home: oh man, I'm making a flickr album, but I'm building lots of bug reports off of it :P Jul 21 07:57:29 http://www.flickr.com/photos/agentdero/sets/72157600934925721/ Jul 21 07:57:31 * rtyler dances Jul 21 07:58:08 rtyler: very nice Jul 21 07:59:13 now if I can get networking to actually work, I can access the device, and start hacking on Mono on OpenMoko :D Jul 21 08:26:10 that economist article about phones mentioning the neo is quite positive Jul 21 08:26:19 in some way even overly so Jul 21 08:29:59 buz: link? Jul 21 08:30:23 http://www.economist.com/science/displaystory.cfm?story_id=9531007 Jul 21 08:30:39 yup reading it now Jul 21 08:33:54 not bad Jul 21 08:35:02 I like how they mention it will get a software upgrade for the next version :-) Jul 21 08:40:24 wow, what a great article, it seems a little unprofessional since it doesn't clearly differentiate between proposed, and deliverables Jul 21 08:45:30 how do you 'calibrate' the touchscreen in qemu ? Jul 21 08:46:07 ScaredyCat: you can click on the screen with the mouse Jul 21 08:46:11 I believe it's done by X11 Jul 21 08:46:18 still its good to see that one of the very major, if not THE major magazine takes note Jul 21 08:46:36 ScaredyCat: if you can see the mouse, anyway. there might be a small black dot in the QEMU window Jul 21 08:46:45 cibomahto: that's what I thought, but not working Jul 21 08:47:28 the calibration program? Jul 21 08:47:59 wait.. it just did 1 crosshair... but I can't get it to o the next :/ Jul 21 08:48:12 jesus, running tightvncserver off my high end opteron workstation pegs the CPU at 90% just so I can run my QEMU :/ Jul 21 08:49:59 nm working now... wasn't easy tho. Jul 21 08:50:07 ScaredyCat: hmm, thats no fun Jul 21 08:50:47 I think it's eating all my cpu Jul 21 08:55:39 hahha.. Jul 21 08:55:50 my dot is offset from the mouse pointer Jul 21 08:56:29 yo morning guys Jul 21 08:56:41 * xkr47 is eating cpu for breakfast Jul 21 08:56:58 xkr47, a very expensive meal Jul 21 08:57:12 it's a duron, they taste best :) Jul 21 08:59:03 xkr47: with a side of DRAM? Jul 21 08:59:18 cibomahto, yeah, salad is good for your health :) Jul 21 09:00:26 but shit isn't Jul 21 09:00:29 stop eating it :P Jul 21 09:02:05 hi Jul 21 09:17:50 "On most PCs you will notice the virtual Neo running faster than a real one..." Jul 21 09:17:53 so, any of you gotten network working with it? Jul 21 09:18:00 ScaredyCat: scary eh? :P Jul 21 09:18:03 then it needs a faster processor, no doubt Jul 21 09:18:16 (network in QEMU that is) Jul 21 09:18:37 eeks Jul 21 09:19:04 rtyler, me either.... so what is ur problem Jul 21 09:19:27 openfanss: I'm too introverted Jul 21 09:19:34 scaredycat, for "the dot offset the mouse" Jul 21 09:19:40 oh, you mean with regards to the QEMU network bit :P Jul 21 09:20:07 openfanss: there's absolutely no indication of how to get it running with network Jul 21 09:20:20 /dev/usb0 seems to be pulling a private IP from somewhere though O_o Jul 21 09:21:01 iirc it sets it to 192.168.0.222 ? Jul 21 09:21:07 202 in my case :) Jul 21 09:21:11 no clue why >_> Jul 21 09:21:35 rtyler, i don't know, seems it can not work for QEMU, Jul 21 09:21:40 200 not 222 Jul 21 09:21:46 :O Jul 21 09:21:50 202 .... Jul 21 09:22:01 openfanss: so how can I get data back and forth onto it? :/ Jul 21 09:22:33 rtyler, i dont know ... Jul 21 09:24:05 reading over "Setting up USB connection" which seems to be it Jul 21 09:24:49 that is soooo coool.... running top on a phone emulator :) Jul 21 09:25:03 i start just from there........ Jul 21 09:25:26 gcb77: looking at my screenshots? :P Jul 21 09:25:52 rtyler: lol, no got my own... Jul 21 09:26:07 * rtyler slaps gcb77 with http://www.flickr.com/photos/agentdero/sets/72157600934925721/ Jul 21 09:26:11 running inside VMWare on Xubuntu Jul 21 09:26:19 and sshd in Jul 21 09:26:28 gcb77: you sshd in to the phone O_O Jul 21 09:26:37 yep Jul 21 09:26:45 Had to do terrible things to get that to work Jul 21 09:26:46 wait, the phone, or the emulator? Jul 21 09:26:50 emulator Jul 21 09:26:53 HOW! Jul 21 09:27:16 rebuilt modules (gadgetfs and cdc_ether) Jul 21 09:27:23 gcd77, so the network is working ? Jul 21 09:27:29 gcb77: tell ussssss :) Jul 21 09:27:36 I'm sshd in, don't think out works Jul 21 09:28:03 i plug this modules successfully, but didn't detect the usb0 device Jul 21 09:28:06 I wish I could upload the image... Jul 21 09:28:24 3GB takes over 20 hours at my throttled speed Jul 21 09:28:33 last time I did it it eneded up there corrupt Jul 21 09:29:21 but, I do have notes on how I got it working, I can try and help Jul 21 09:31:58 gcb77: feel like blogging or writing them up somewhere? :P Jul 21 09:32:35 oh yeah, like the wiki :) Jul 21 09:32:49 yeah that works too :P Jul 21 09:33:04 Its mostly notes... I've tried 3 different systems (openSUSE, Ubuntu, and Xubuntu) Jul 21 09:33:34 Xubuntu is the easiest, it has most of the needed stuff already there Jul 21 09:34:56 * rtyler dances Jul 21 09:34:57 there :D Jul 21 09:38:30 gcb77: Did you find out about that -16 error I hot when I tried? Jul 21 09:39:00 ewanm89_laptop: I'm pretty sure it has to do with dummy_hcd Jul 21 09:39:08 I had to remove net2280 altogether Jul 21 09:39:15 then rebuild gadgetfs Jul 21 09:39:34 otherwise it loaded net2280 as a dependency Jul 21 09:39:53 now it loads dummy_hcd Jul 21 09:41:20 Looks like I can ssh from the Emulator back into the host system, so if I followed the directions on how to make it a host I'd have networking... and internet Jul 21 09:41:23 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[P1_Owners]] [[Buying_Interest_List]] Jul 21 09:41:56 All I have is dummy_hcd compiled in to the kernel. Jul 21 09:42:48 does dmesg show anything? Jul 21 09:46:53 gadgetfs: USB Gadget filesystem, version 24 Aug 2004 Jul 21 09:46:53 dummy_udc dummy_udc: binding gadget driver 'nop' Jul 21 09:47:06 hrm, openmoko bugzilla hasn't sent me my confirm email :/ Jul 21 09:48:50 ewanm89_laptop: what kernel are you running? Jul 21 09:49:12 2.6.22.1 Jul 21 09:51:28 have not seen that msg Jul 21 09:51:40 I used stock Xubuntu kernel Jul 21 09:51:55 When I load g_ether I get Jul 21 09:51:58 dummy_udc dummy_udc: binding gadget driver 'ether' Jul 21 09:52:52 g_ether is not loaded, I think it conflicts with something Jul 21 09:53:03 on my system Jul 21 09:54:49 it's coming up "could not add USB device 'gadget:1'" Jul 21 09:58:54 ewanm89_laptop: my bet would be on one of the other modules (I've seen g_zero, g_ether, net2280) causing conflicts with gadgetfs Jul 21 09:59:46 Is there any interest in a 3G(expands to 7G) VMWare image fully set up with OpenMoko emulator and SSH over USB? Jul 21 10:11:21 gcb77: definitely :D Jul 21 10:16:21 I'll take it work and upload it from there sometime Jul 21 10:29:12 gcb77: you'll probably win some friends if you provide one ;) Jul 21 10:30:02 gcb77: can you go to work...now :P Jul 21 10:30:37 although, i guess unless you have a stonking machine, emulation running under emulation might not be much fun :) Jul 21 10:31:03 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Test_Openmoko_Emulation_with_chroot_image Jul 21 10:31:11 this one don't work for you? Jul 21 10:32:15 in might if i had an additional 15gb free on my laptop Jul 21 10:32:21 :)) Jul 21 10:32:23 ScaredyCat: actually vmware is pretty good, I run a Ubuntu image on WinXP on my laptop and it moves very nicely Jul 21 10:33:39 yeah, except it generally breaks on kernel updates Jul 21 10:34:38 ..ok, that's only a 5 minute fix, but it's a annoying.. Jul 21 10:34:51 of course you don;t get that with windows :) Jul 21 11:14:43 man, I'm so excited Jul 21 11:14:49 getting closer :D Jul 21 11:15:07 * rtyler stabs /dev/tun Jul 21 11:17:04 i just heard google is probably going to bid for us mobile frequencies. what do you think, would they support openmoko? Jul 21 11:17:24 heh, I don't think that matters ;/ Jul 21 11:17:44 spliffy_, they'd probably buy openmoko as they usually buy things ;) Jul 21 11:17:57 hehe yeah... damn Jul 21 11:18:59 hrm, has anybody built usbnet for Ubuntu? Jul 21 11:22:12 * mokobot hands ScaredyCat Jason1's neo Jul 21 11:22:55 http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=41147 Jul 21 11:25:12 seems fair enough Jul 21 11:25:13 * mokobot hands ScaredyCat Jason1's neo Jul 21 11:26:00 oh please dont let google buy openmoko Jul 21 11:26:42 Google is Good. How dare you defy it?! Jul 21 11:26:45 Strike that. Jul 21 11:26:48 Google isn't Evil. Jul 21 11:27:49 anybody know of any prebuilt Ubuntu/Debian kernel images with usbnet? Jul 21 11:28:00 * rtyler hates building his own kernels and can't reboot his box Jul 21 11:28:29 Google might buy FIC Jul 21 11:28:31 not OM Jul 21 11:29:07 won't stop them from doing it ;) Jul 21 11:29:23 whats the relationship between FIC and OM ? Jul 21 11:29:33 FIC produces the neo1973 Jul 21 11:29:33 FIC created the phone and the project >_> Jul 21 11:30:04 wasn't it initiated by sean, mickeyl, laf0rge, etc? Jul 21 11:30:13 i mean if google might buy FIC and that isnt OM, then how are they related? Jul 21 11:30:16 no clue actually :P Jul 21 11:30:17 No Jul 21 11:30:25 As I understand it. Jul 21 11:30:34 Sean was working for FIC in some way. Jul 21 11:30:40 yeah right Jul 21 11:30:47 FIC had a customer for a phone - that fell over. Jul 21 11:30:55 The phone was the Neo1973 Jul 21 11:31:22 Sean then had an idea, pitched it to bosses at FIC, and got support to bring several people onboard with actual funding Jul 21 11:31:34 This was the core team. Jul 21 11:32:27 and Jul 21 11:32:30 Then they worked a bit, and released the OM source, while making claims that hardware would be real soon now Jul 21 11:32:47 lol Jul 21 11:33:02 the whole project is just a farse to get us to buy make believe phones actually ;) Jul 21 11:35:11 mmazur: Google is evil. You just haven't realized it yet Jul 21 11:36:04 in 10 years after they've profiled you to death, they'll know what you are going to buy next - before you do. Jul 21 11:38:05 If they then use their massive buying power to send it to me cheap, so I wake up in the morning and have the option to accept a really cheap foo at the door, ... Jul 21 11:38:58 Ah, so openmoko is just a way to salvage the neo. Jul 21 11:39:05 So much for idealism ;) Jul 21 11:39:12 sort of ;) Jul 21 11:39:27 and the proof for this is: Jul 21 11:40:17 * ScaredyCat waits... Jul 21 11:40:28 so why have they started developing with the samsung devboard then? - did they just replace the cpu? Jul 21 11:40:29 hi Jul 21 11:40:30 if it was a true opensource project, the neo would be vaporware! Jul 21 11:40:51 lo Jul 21 11:40:57 FIC wants to make money. Jul 21 11:41:01 and not being vaporware means it's not real ;) Jul 21 11:41:19 They are currently building phones for Nokia et-al - at lowest bid prices. Jul 21 11:41:20 meaning: it's real therefore it can't be real ;) Jul 21 11:41:23 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Wish_List_-_Hardware]] [[P1_Owners]] [[Advertising]] [[Press_Coverage]] [[Category:Hardware_ideas]] [[OpenMoko_under_QEMU_on_MacOSX]] [[Buying_Interest_List]] [[User:Gcasse]] Jul 21 11:41:29 They want to sell them to customers. Jul 21 11:41:38 This gets _much_ higher margin. Jul 21 11:41:43 But you need an OS. Jul 21 11:41:45 ~p1 Jul 21 11:41:46 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/P1_Owners Jul 21 11:41:51 To take it in PC terms. Jul 21 11:42:10 no new mails then Jul 21 11:42:22 They want to be IBM, not the subcontractor that makes the IBM PC. Jul 21 11:48:36 does anyone know of any tickets larger than 1880 that have had payment conf yet? Jul 21 11:50:59 how far along are the python bindings these days? Jul 21 11:51:00 everybody is in packaging proccess, no commits etc... Jul 21 11:51:41 * buz doubts he wants to write c-gtk Jul 21 11:52:14 rtyler: have u fixed the network problem under QEMU? have u checked the gadget build into QEMU Jul 21 11:52:16 and scripting languages are a lot easier to test Jul 21 11:52:32 ~/scripting/interpreted/ Jul 21 11:52:48 openfanss: yes and no, I don't have any bloody usbnet device even though it shows up in lsmod Jul 21 11:53:01 wonder if will be possible to get Lazarus apps working on the neo Jul 21 11:53:47 sounds like an udev issue Jul 21 11:54:06 what's the output when type " usb_add gadget:1" in QEMU monitor device? Jul 21 11:54:29 QEMU monitor device? >_> Jul 21 11:54:53 rtyler, i find that QEMU didn't actually build in gadget. Jul 21 11:55:32 rtyler, sorry , QEMU console (ctrl+alt+2) will get it Jul 21 11:56:08 couldn't add device gadget:1 Jul 21 11:56:49 wooohooo1!!! Jul 21 11:56:54 * ScaredyCat dances Jul 21 11:57:09 Your credit card has now been charged by the following amount: Jul 21 11:57:27 scaredycat hehe Jul 21 11:57:29 $Shitton Jul 21 11:57:29 gratz Jul 21 11:57:34 rtyler, must be that QEMU did not build in gadget! Jul 21 11:57:39 >_< Jul 21 11:57:53 ScaredyCat, whats your ticket? Jul 21 11:58:09 anyone ever got this error? http://nopaste.eof.name/ Jul 21 11:58:27 a blank paste page? yep Jul 21 11:58:31 fixing around this from the beginning - as if pwd would be defect Jul 21 11:58:40 http://nopaste.eof.name/180 Jul 21 11:58:43 usually people DONT like if their card is charged ;) Jul 21 11:58:50 rtyler sry ;-) Jul 21 11:58:57 #1826 Jul 21 11:59:04 Psi_: Jul 21 11:59:27 yeah, i suspect atleast up to 1880 have already been charged Jul 21 11:59:48 * ScaredyCat knew it, cot I had an alarm set on it arriving im my mailbox ;) Jul 21 12:00:07 did you just get it now? Jul 21 12:00:07 Psi_: I don't think that's what happened... Jul 21 12:00:10 yes Jul 21 12:00:19 hm. yeah, im wrong then Jul 21 12:00:30 Today 13:03:14 Jul 21 12:00:33 IMO - no. Jul 21 12:00:56 ScaredyCat, hehe that doesnt mean much, i dont know where you are Jul 21 12:00:58 I would expect >3 confirmed payments if we've got 60 charged Jul 21 12:01:02 .nl Jul 21 12:01:13 it's 13:05 now :) Jul 21 12:02:26 shipping was still $80 Jul 21 12:02:39 damnit, where's my shipping email :( Jul 21 12:02:52 rtyler: I haven't had a shipping email Jul 21 12:02:58 rtyler, whats your ticket? Jul 21 12:03:00 just a 'we took your money' one Jul 21 12:03:19 3824 :( Jul 21 12:03:25 haha Jul 21 12:03:51 I assumed they'd charge immediately, so I had to make sure I had rent paid &stuff ;) Jul 21 12:04:03 ScaredyCat: doh! Jul 21 12:04:29 LarstiQ: ? Jul 21 12:05:32 ScaredyCat: I only now realize our physical proximity Jul 21 12:05:44 * LarstiQ was looking for other Dutchies to share shipping with a while back Jul 21 12:05:49 ahh. yes... Jul 21 12:05:51 oopsey Jul 21 12:06:07 brb -> library Jul 21 12:06:08 ah well, 99$ for two persons isn't _that_ bad Jul 21 12:08:07 mine is the advanced so prolly heavier... Jul 21 12:08:18 anyway - definately -> library Jul 21 12:09:38 ScaredyCat: we ordered two hackers lunch boxes :) Jul 21 12:09:40 oh I am reading laforges last blog entry Jul 21 12:15:01 you guys need to keep me posted when your tickets get updated Jul 21 12:15:08 3800 is a long fucking way away :'( Jul 21 12:18:30 hi Jul 21 12:22:15 Anyone know how long it takes to boot? At the moment!? Jul 21 12:22:15 grobian: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (and also SH1_FAQ, Neo1973, Developer_preview and Neo1973_Hardware#GTA01Bv4 pages) (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) Jul 21 12:23:40 ? Jul 21 12:27:33 grobian: no idea dude Jul 21 12:27:47 the ones that are out in the wild that i've heard of don't even boot Jul 21 12:28:18 ok Jul 21 12:29:36 at this point i'd settle for minimo building, the new contacts app getting committed, or even them asking me to drive to their distribution point and help them get them shipped Jul 21 12:29:48 heh Jul 21 12:29:58 let's get a minivan and go pitch in :) Jul 21 12:30:18 * rtyler is pleased thus far with QEMU though (http://unethicalblogger.com/posts/tyler/starting_with_openmoko) Jul 21 12:30:19 lol Jul 21 12:30:41 where in the world are you to? i'm in nj, USA Jul 21 12:30:49 San Francisco Jul 21 12:31:01 they're shipping from China, so let's meet on my coast :P Jul 21 12:31:03 yeah when the f* dies the new today app come in Jul 21 12:31:08 lmao, deal Jul 21 12:31:56 wait a bit,SF it's like 5 where you are? Jul 21 12:32:06 yes >_> Jul 21 12:32:09 or 4? so you must still be up and haven't gone to bed Jul 21 12:32:24 yep, I have sleeping problems it seems ;) Jul 21 12:32:24 jeez, i remember when i used to do that Jul 21 12:32:45 lol, now that i have a female PITA i ge tto go to bed at the uber late 11:00 Jul 21 12:33:01 however I do have to head out and photograph a wedding today so i should probably be getting ready Jul 21 12:33:07 BryceLeo_Away: shit happens :P Jul 21 12:33:10 What time is it in NY? Jul 21 12:33:13 * rtyler ducks Jul 21 12:33:15 8:33 Jul 21 12:33:21 am? Jul 21 12:33:26 yup Jul 21 12:33:32 i've been up since 6:30 am Jul 21 12:34:09 its 2:33 pm here Jul 21 12:34:14 holy shit, it's done Jul 21 12:34:22 or like we call it 14:33 Jul 21 12:34:29 my import of Wikipedia into a local SQL store, after 3 days, finished! Jul 21 12:34:32 groban you're in the EU? Jul 21 12:34:39 yes Jul 21 12:34:47 nice Jul 21 12:35:01 rtyler: wait... so you're mirroring wikipedia Jul 21 12:35:16 BryceLeo: a separate hack i'm working on alongside mono on openmoko ;) Jul 21 12:35:21 rtyler: And now it's out of date.... :) Jul 21 12:35:48 rtyler: so you're gonna bring mono to openmoko? Jul 21 12:35:49 rtyler: jaebird is also very interested in mono on moko Jul 21 12:36:09 sagacis_: he may be the one i've been talking with on the mono-dev list then :) Jul 21 12:36:12 haha looks like silverlight will run on the openmoko before flash will Jul 21 12:36:22 fucking good >_> Jul 21 12:36:33 rtyler: Probably. I'll ask him. We work together Jul 21 12:36:51 we should probably start hacking on gnash Jul 21 12:36:52 rtyler: If you're blogging about openmoko can you add yourself to the list of external feeds on the wiki? http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/External_Feeds Jul 21 12:37:48 we know apple is powerful enough to get flash for their device, however i don't really know if we are.... Jul 21 12:37:54 damnit! somehody stole the 'tyler' nick on the wiki :P Jul 21 12:38:09 BryceLeo: Flash lite exists on most Nokia's, specifically the S90 platform Jul 21 12:38:10 sacre bleu!! !there's more than one tyler!!! :-P Jul 21 12:38:13 jgm: working on Jul 21 12:38:17 BryceLeo: HERESY! Jul 21 12:38:35 rtyler: there's flash on the n800? Jul 21 12:38:42 I have been working on an embedded device with montavista linux and Intel arm xscale ! It took about 40-60 sec to boot Jul 21 12:38:48 pxa255 Jul 21 12:38:55 BryceLeo: sick huh? :P Jul 21 12:39:00 Last night, I was looking at bugzilla. Has nobody reported the broken icons on the main screen, or is it just me? Jul 21 12:39:25 hope will be better on neo1973 Jul 21 12:39:41 grobian: I'm not worried about boot so much as sleep/wake Jul 21 12:39:53 rtyler: the flash on the N800 is from gnash though Jul 21 12:40:15 rtyler: atleast as far as i can tell Jul 21 12:40:18 jgm: can you add http://unethicalblogger.com/ to the list? my mail server seems to have trouble receiving confirm emails :'( Jul 21 12:40:23 * rtyler still is waiting on the bugzilla one Jul 21 12:40:29 rtyler: that could be a problem! suspend mode! Jul 21 12:40:38 oh noes! Jul 21 12:41:10 s/S90/S60/ Jul 21 12:42:05 hmmm perhaps flash might get there after all, we just need to ship enough units Jul 21 12:42:16 you say that like it's something to be desired O_O Jul 21 12:42:31 =) Jul 21 12:42:45 haha i worked on a project that used basic flash 6 functions to get sweet stable ajax Jul 21 12:42:49 even worked with gnash Jul 21 12:42:58 they've since switched Jul 21 12:43:28 mmm, 11GB of MySQL'fied wikipedia Jul 21 12:43:31 but anywhoo i must be off to get read Jul 21 12:43:34 ready* Jul 21 12:43:35 c ya guy Jul 21 12:43:36 s Jul 21 12:43:39 adios Jul 21 12:43:40 cu Jul 21 12:44:12 morning fellows! Jul 21 12:44:17 g'day Jul 21 12:44:17 rtyler: can you filter the feeds from drupal based on tag? If so I'll set it up so that only openmoko posts show up... Jul 21 12:44:30 i'm trying to figure that out now actually :P Jul 21 12:44:44 Elrond: ping Jul 21 12:44:50 I'll just make another category for it Jul 21 12:45:02 Okay let me know when you have the URL for a suitable feed Jul 21 12:45:24 ps Jul 21 12:45:33 oops sorry. Wrong window focus Jul 21 12:46:51 jgm: http://unethicalblogger.com/blog_categories/openmoko Jul 21 12:52:11 Payment received ;) Jul 21 12:52:18 what number!? Jul 21 12:52:24 #1834 Jul 21 12:52:30 damnit! Jul 21 12:53:03 Ooh Jul 21 12:53:08 Jul 21 12:53:24 rtyler: want your name and a description of what bit of openmoko you're blogging about on there too? Jul 21 12:53:25 Cool. Getting closer. Update P1 Owners, please... Jul 21 12:53:37 jgm: sure :) Jul 21 12:55:48 Go on then :) Jul 21 12:56:02 jgm: R. Tyler Ballance, porting Mono to OpenMoko Jul 21 12:56:14 * rtyler is also trying to get the qemu code working on Mac OS X right now >_> Jul 21 12:56:43 rtyler: 'bitbake mono' and you're done Jul 21 12:56:53 koen: huh? Jul 21 12:57:12 you said 'porting Mono' Jul 21 12:57:40 ahuh? Jul 21 12:58:02 koen: do you have Mono on openmoko already?! :-o Jul 21 12:58:21 I have a mono binary on my neo1973, yes Jul 21 12:58:42 so you'd better spend your time improving the current effort than reinventing the wheel Jul 21 12:59:34 koen: what system are you using bitbake on? Jul 21 12:59:56 debian and ubuntu Jul 21 13:00:25 can you build it on OpenMoko too? Jul 21 13:00:45 ? Jul 21 13:00:50 just do 'bitbake mono' Jul 21 13:01:06 rtyler: sorted Jul 21 13:01:16 i.e. against the OpenMoko SDK and such, instead of just moving the binaries over Jul 21 13:01:54 just follow http://www.openembedded.org/wiki/GettingStarted and do 'bitbake mono' Jul 21 13:02:10 * rwhitby wonders when openmoko will be self-hosting ... Jul 21 13:02:15 koen: what do you think the performance on monotone on the neo would be like ;-) Jul 21 13:02:30 OE is already self-hosting Jul 21 13:02:41 rwhitby: monotone on the slug worked quite well Jul 21 13:03:36 yeah, I guess the neo does have much more ram than a slug, so it should work nicely. Jul 21 13:03:42 rwhitby: good to see familiar faces here. Jul 21 13:03:47 koen: ideally I'd like to see the build able to be integrated into the usual Mono build and release processes so we can put binaries/installers in with the regular mono distribution http://mono-project.com/Downloads Jul 21 13:04:01 compbrain: long time no see Jul 21 13:04:40 rtyler: that's backwards Jul 21 13:04:58 why's that? Jul 21 13:04:59 rtyler: the openmoko distro (and others) are perfectly capable of providing their own packages Jul 21 13:05:38 and 'embedded' (read ARM) has too many incompatible flavours to make hosting them on mono-project usefull Jul 21 13:06:06 koen: amen - nslu2-linux builds optware for no less than 11 different embedded targets Jul 21 13:06:25 and OE builds for far more than that Jul 21 13:06:41 rwhitby: and for each target you can vary the ABI, glibc, etc Jul 21 13:06:51 compinatorial explosion Jul 21 13:07:02 nod Jul 21 13:07:03 koen: yeah, did you know that Freecom just released commercial firmware with big endian EABI? Jul 21 13:07:04 s/p/b/ Jul 21 13:07:04 koen meant: combinatorial explosion Jul 21 13:07:14 rwhitby: yes, you told me earlier :) Jul 21 13:07:31 rwhitby: for which device? Jul 21 13:07:33 it was a private alpha earlier, now they've actually released it. Jul 21 13:07:34 "here is mono for arm, pick one of the 40 options" Jul 21 13:07:42 mickeyl: Freecom FSG-3 version 4.2.7 firmware Jul 21 13:07:49 koen: as soon as I can get a VM up that can get thrashed with my kernel recompiles I'll give it a whirl :P Jul 21 13:07:52 ~google fsg-3 Jul 21 13:08:18 mickeyl: http://www.nslu2-linux.org/wiki/FSG3/HomePage or www.openfsg.com Jul 21 13:08:32 FWIW, the qemu-neo1973 code definitely does *not* agree with gcc-3.3 on Mac OS 10.4 Jul 21 13:09:08 they're using a codesourcery 2005q3-2 toolchain, but a big-endian version of it which doesn't exist on the csl website. Jul 21 13:09:24 most likely because that's not actually gcc-3.3, but apple-gcc-3.3 Jul 21 13:09:46 I like to pretend the terms are interchangable :P Jul 21 13:12:12 Psi_: pity i didnt realise you were also based in nz otherwise we could have saved a bit on shipping Jul 21 13:13:15 Ooh, just got a payment confirmation :) #1839 Jul 21 13:14:27 So that's about one every four minutes in case someone is working on a run rate Jul 21 13:15:55 Now they're ticking up... I'm getting a bit excited. Still a way to go, but closer than ever... Jul 21 13:16:38 only 2000 more until they get close to me :'( Jul 21 13:17:12 good morning! -- they're running a backlog of orders? Jul 21 13:18:35 rtyler: relax, I'm even further away than that. Jul 21 13:18:58 rtyler, a little progress, i make usb0 show up in my host computer, but still failed to communicate with emulate QEMU >_<~ Jul 21 13:22:21 openfanss: I can't thrash my normal linux workstation since I need it for work, so I need to setup an entirely new VM just for this :/ Jul 21 13:26:54 openfanss: seems we're running in the same issues with usb stuff... Jul 21 13:27:38 Markinoko, so what's your problem Jul 21 13:28:42 openfanss: well, it changes from time to time. Right now I having a "unknown filesystem type 'gadgetfs'" while the gadgetfs module is loaded in the kernel... funny Jul 21 13:29:48 openfanss: I do have the usb0 interface though. once gadgetfs works, things should get better Jul 21 13:31:16 aaah Jul 21 13:31:20 I see... Jul 21 13:31:41 gadgetfs needs to be loaded before the other moules it seems. Jul 21 13:32:05 Markinoko ah, okay, can you put that to the wiki? Jul 21 13:32:56 kristian-m: I guess I'll create an account, yes Jul 21 13:33:07 great :-) Jul 21 13:33:19 hmm, even better, don't load gadgetfs at boot-time Jul 21 13:33:44 I'll have to try to reboot to get that right I suppose. Jul 21 13:34:34 ok Jul 21 13:34:56 who has a "Warning: could not find USB gadgetfs" when running qemu while gadgetfs is mounted in /dev/gadget ? Jul 21 13:35:10 did anyone solve this one ? Jul 21 13:40:06 moreover "/dev/gadget" is hardcoded in qemu's gadget driver... so you can't be wrong about the path. wtf Jul 21 13:41:23 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Main_Page/fr]] [[Getting_Started_with_your_Neo1973/fr]] [[Wishlist:Extension_Framework]] [[Neo1973]] [[WM8976]] [[GTA01_Hardware]] [[P1_Owners]] [[External_Feeds]] [[User:Jgm]] [[Hardware]] [[Wish_List_-_Hardware]] [[Buying_Interest_List]] Jul 21 13:44:03 rwhitby: i'm still undecided, but probably going for a qnap ts 201 Jul 21 13:44:22 together with 2 500G drives Jul 21 13:44:52 mickeyl: have you spoken with the linkstationwiki guys? Jul 21 13:45:14 rwhitby: don't think so Jul 21 13:45:22 they're moving to an OE-based distro Jul 21 13:45:33 www.linkstationwiki.net Jul 21 13:45:51 oh cool Jul 21 13:46:30 nslu2-linux and linkstationwiki have teamed up to buy a new grunty server together at OSUOSL to host all our NAS-related sites Jul 21 13:46:35 #1839?!?!?!!!! Jul 21 13:46:58 Markinoko, i can access the NEO QEMU finally from host ..... Jul 21 13:47:02 Markinoko, u gadgetfs is not successfully load Jul 21 13:47:03 i should get one in less than 8 minutes!! Jul 21 13:47:06 check this, Device Drivers -> USB support -> USB Gadget Support -> USB Peripheral Controller and set it to Dummy HCD (DEVELOPMENT) Jul 21 13:47:07 whats that number youre talking about? Jul 21 13:47:32 grobian, Ooh, just got a payment confirmation :) #1839 Jul 21 13:47:39 galexande: I dont' know if they are in order Jul 21 13:47:41 oh ok Jul 21 13:47:49 of course, that was 20 minutes ago Jul 21 13:47:55 openfanss: yup I have the Dummy HCD Jul 21 13:47:59 they apparently aren't in order. how unfair. Jul 21 13:48:08 so gadgetfs is not mandatory ? Jul 21 13:48:08 #1880 already got one Jul 21 13:48:16 i think neo1973 will be a big success Jul 21 13:48:33 openfanss: wikify it! Jul 21 13:48:39 grobian: i agree :D Jul 21 13:48:50 many fans and developer Jul 21 13:49:32 rtyler, ok , i'll put it there Jul 21 13:50:02 grobian: I hope so, Sean might have an anurism otherwise :P Jul 21 13:51:09 :) Jul 21 13:51:18 you ain't seen nothing yet. we're building a kick-ass team right now and then start to really rock Jul 21 13:51:23 who generate this message "Warning: could not find USB gadgetfs" ? QEMU or kernel of your host computer Jul 21 13:51:46 mickeyl: so we'll all get major discounts on phase 2 phones right ;) Jul 21 13:52:00 especially if we promise to show them off to those iPhone touting coworkers we might have? Jul 21 13:52:12 haha Jul 21 13:52:15 lets see :) Jul 21 13:52:16 "AJAX is not an SDK fool!" Jul 21 13:52:29 *gtk*! Jul 21 13:53:43 mickeyl: is there some secret settings pane somewhere? I would really like to tell my emulated phone that the date is not epoch Jul 21 13:53:46 openfanss: the warning is generated by qemu Jul 21 13:54:06 whats the way of adding files / libs to rootfs.. did compile the package with bitbake allready? Jul 21 13:54:07 rtyler: heh, sorry, not yet. preferences will come soon. as will a major UI overhaul. Jul 21 13:54:08 Markinoko, QEMU "usb_gadget_init" function not successfully execute, Jul 21 13:54:09 im starting qemu with 512 MiB its to solw on my maschine! Jul 21 13:54:23 mickeyl: are we talking more or less orange brushed metal >_> Jul 21 13:54:24 openfanss: yup, I figured that out... Jul 21 13:54:41 openfanss: still can't see why though Jul 21 13:54:56 rtyler: first less... then 1 year later much more :D Jul 21 13:55:00 Markinoko, check the file ~MOKODIR/build/qemu/config-host.h, make sure "#define CONFIG_GADGETFS 1" Jul 21 13:55:20 mickey, so do you think there is enough development capacity within FIC/OpenMoko to get the core dialing/PIM apps up to speed without community assistance? Jul 21 13:55:23 make sure u build gadgetfs for QEMU Jul 21 13:55:40 it's no fun without community assistance :P Jul 21 13:55:42 * rtyler ducks Jul 21 13:55:57 p.s. MokoWebkit looks *hawt* Jul 21 13:56:05 openfanss: hehe, not there :-) can that be activated at compile time ? Jul 21 13:56:25 i think it makes more sense to involve the community, however our resources in the future might be enough to make it without additional input. wouldn't be half as fun though Jul 21 13:57:26 mickeyl: I wish my company was less of a web company to where I could justify openmoko on their time too :/ Jul 21 13:57:27 how about crosscompiler? Jul 21 13:57:51 zowie, y'all are running a neo1973 simu w/qemu? Jul 21 13:57:52 Markinoko, it generate by "configure" automatically, should copy kernel headers Jul 21 13:57:56 woohoo - just got payment confirmation email #1836 Jul 21 13:59:12 god dammit Jul 21 13:59:40 vallor: i?am Jul 21 13:59:53 * mokobot mugs Jason1 for his neo and gives it to ScaredyCat Jul 21 14:00:27 Hello Everyone! Jul 21 14:00:37 grobian: that's what I asked! ;P Jul 21 14:00:53 I would like to personally thank the OpenMoko team for the sleep already lost thanks to OpenMoko and the many hours I plan to lose along the way :P Jul 21 14:01:09 I see that more people have gotten payment confirmations! Jul 21 14:01:30 XD Jul 21 14:01:59 seriously, though, if there's a neo simulator, that might tide me over with something to code on, until deliver... Jul 21 14:02:16 vallor: QEMU... :) Jul 21 14:02:31 rtyler: snazzy! :) Jul 21 14:02:37 vallor: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/MokoMakefile#QEMU Jul 21 14:02:43 beat me to it, drats :P Jul 21 14:03:02 fun fact, the openmoko-dialer will simply chop the number after a certain number of entries Jul 21 14:03:12 qemu running on PID 7639 Jul 21 14:06:39 rtyler: did you report it to bugzilla? Jul 21 14:07:52 Kensan: been waiting on the confirmation email all night/morning :/ Jul 21 14:08:56 rtyler: does not seem to be in bugzilla... Jul 21 14:09:28 because I can't log in silly Jul 21 14:09:29 rtyler: did it get caught in your spam-filter or is your mail-server grey-listing? Jul 21 14:09:36 not sure on either Jul 21 14:09:42 I've been getting emails from mono-dev still Jul 21 14:11:36 rtyler: did you try to request a passwd change? (http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/query.cgi?GoAheadAndLogIn=1) Jul 21 14:14:15 we'll see if that works :P Jul 21 14:15:50 hurray little sister ruby :D http://img522.imageshack.us/img522/5436/bild2an2.png Jul 21 14:18:06 galexande: I got mine too Jul 21 14:21:14 scaredycat, were you #1844? Jul 21 14:21:22 oh woot, QEMU running OpenMoko running in Ubuntu running on Virtual Box running on an SSH X11 tunnel running on Xubuntu Jul 21 14:21:27 1826 Jul 21 14:21:57 oh that's not so bad. if they get through the 40s and don't get me i'll be distraught Jul 21 14:22:18 * rtyler sets off to get usbnet and gadgetfs working Jul 21 14:22:45 they did 39/34 Jul 21 14:23:33 nice even rubygems works.. now controlling openmoko with ruby classes eg native c extentions for arm ruby on timeline :) Jul 21 14:23:44 ScaredyCat: How long since mokobot had a read error? Jul 21 14:23:52 mickey|tea: wicked :) Jul 21 14:23:59 erm Jul 21 14:24:03 mil_: wicked Jul 21 14:24:08 * rtyler kicks autocomplete Jul 21 14:24:09 dunno, I was out ewanm89_laptop Jul 21 14:24:37 I wondered how long the timeout is. Jul 21 14:25:25 well, it was before 12:25 today Jul 21 14:26:05 I'm pretty sure I used it to ~p1 Jul 21 14:26:11 ~p1 Jul 21 14:26:27 have any of you booted the QEMU image off an NFS share yet? Jul 21 14:26:29 so actually it must have been around 13:00 Jul 21 14:26:53 Ah, um Jul 21 14:36:38 it appears that qemu's usb-linux-gadget.c includes linux/usb_gadgetfs.h which is a "in-tree" kernel header. this is heresy Jul 21 14:37:31 ~p1 Jul 21 14:37:32 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/P1_Owners Jul 21 14:37:38 That worked Jul 21 14:41:12 ~prof Jul 21 14:42:11 sagacis: Why wouldn't it when I restarted the bot? Jul 21 14:46:53 i have noticed 2 bugs in the calculaor ! Jul 21 14:47:28 subtract one from the other and you'll have zero bugs! Jul 21 14:47:45 ;) Jul 21 14:47:51 grobian: fix it :> Jul 21 14:47:51 is the responding of typing in gtkterm smoth on real hardware? can i type with fingers? Jul 21 14:47:58 okay Jul 21 14:48:03 where is the source Jul 21 14:48:13 mokobot, my order 2013 Jul 21 14:48:17 * rtyler points to that box over there Jul 21 14:48:23 it is not on the list why Jul 21 14:48:31 I said YES_I_DO Jul 21 14:49:09 jackey: What list are you talking about? The owners list? Jul 21 14:49:09 Hi all! Jul 21 14:49:09 grobian: i think it is in the svn-repo? Jul 21 14:49:09 I got charged! Jul 21 14:49:20 yes Jul 21 14:49:21 tyrael, order no? Jul 21 14:49:24 18xx Jul 21 14:49:31 4x? Jul 21 14:49:34 i have been waiting for a long time Jul 21 14:49:36 182x Jul 21 14:49:40 oh good Jul 21 14:49:49 but i dont think i have the permissions to write on rep! Jul 21 14:49:57 alright gents, it's been a delightful 12 hours of OpenMoko'ing after the previous 10 hours of actual working, if somebody gets everything sorted with QEMU, can they update the page: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/OpenMoko_under_QEMU Jul 21 14:50:04 and the shipping cost was lower Jul 21 14:50:12 grobian: submit patches to the dev lists Jul 21 14:50:18 54 instead 77 (to Italy) Jul 21 14:50:36 tyrael, fic gets a ups discount which they were unable to incorporate in the original estimate Jul 21 14:50:36 jackey: The owners list is voluntary, add yourself if you wish. Jul 21 14:51:16 i c, sorry i tought it was updated by openmoko Jul 21 14:51:34 it would be neat ifit were :) Jul 21 14:51:49 yeah, great! Jul 21 14:51:49 also thanks to the Euro I pay 256,39€ Jul 21 14:52:11 rtyler: ok, i have never done that bevore. How do i do that ? a patch is a diff between my source code and the repositroy , isnt it? Jul 21 14:52:29 i just use the diff command? Jul 21 14:52:30 yes Jul 21 14:52:34 svn diff will do :) Jul 21 14:52:39 ok Jul 21 14:53:03 NOTE: please upload patches to bugzilla -- that way they don't get lost / overlooked etc. Jul 21 14:53:24 Bye, I go out Jul 21 14:53:41 so what's the word -- is it worth it to load up with the neo1973 emu, or is openmoko itself sufficiently complete to develop using the "PC" option? Jul 21 14:53:44 mickeyl: i will do so Jul 21 14:54:00 (regarding qemu as illustrated here: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/OpenMoko_under_QEMU ) Jul 21 14:55:19 ah, battery readings... Jul 21 14:55:47 vallor, depends what you're writing i'd imagine. Jul 21 14:56:17 if you're not interacting with the matchbox panel then you might as well just write in gtk, maybe using the mokoui libs Jul 21 14:56:23 grobian: you should file a bug on bugzilla and then attach your patch. Jul 21 14:56:34 galexande: I was thinking of getting a mini-mini usb webcam working, so that one could snap pics ala mms-style messaging Jul 21 14:56:34 and run it on the pc in a 480x~600 window :) Jul 21 14:57:21 ,,, OHCI USB Works Jul 21 14:57:23 :) :) Jul 21 14:57:36 I'm going to go full-on hardware emulation Jul 21 14:57:48 if you can get the camera to work with the neo then it will probably act the same as the camera hooked up to your pc Jul 21 14:57:57 i.e., the same v4l or usbdevfs kind of interface Jul 21 14:57:59 kensan: thx Jul 21 14:58:26 though make sure you are using 2.6 kernel on your pc, in my experience v4l has changed a good deal Jul 21 14:58:43 anyone know whats the highest rt charged till now? Jul 21 14:58:50 are there people who still use 2.4 on a desktop? Jul 21 14:58:57 super, 1880 has been charged but 182x/183x has been almost all charged Jul 21 14:59:02 so far as i know there are no 184x charges yet Jul 21 14:59:03 galexande: I'm running F7, 2.6 has been around for a while :) Jul 21 14:59:23 buz, me a month ago Jul 21 14:59:30 but why Jul 21 14:59:43 buz, i don't go lookin for trouble Jul 21 15:00:00 speed, thhat would be most unfortunate Jul 21 15:00:16 drivers alone would push most desktop users to 2.6 Jul 21 15:00:36 well my hardware is a little bit old but i haven't yet found anything not supported by 2.4 Jul 21 15:00:57 the stupid glibc threads dependency is what finally forced me to upgrade Jul 21 15:01:22 the only difference i note is that now my nfs-over-openvpn sometimes creates some sort of DoS Jul 21 15:01:31 well i just track whatever ubuntu uses ;) Jul 21 15:03:12 buz: there are legacy system that can't upgrade in a "sane" way. 2.6 touched/reworked many subsystems Jul 21 15:03:29 yeah but desktop generally is not legacy Jul 21 15:03:46 buz: depends on definition of desktop ;) Jul 21 15:05:38 191x has been charged as of this morning Jul 21 15:06:03 * Sup3rkiddo is 3054 =( Jul 21 15:06:44 i don't know what 'legacy' is. do you mean "still works?" Jul 21 15:07:04 gelexande, if you can switch from openvpn to ipsec you may get better performance due to the kernel buffer boundary issue which is done right in the kernel & probably can't be in user space openvpn. YMMV. Jul 21 15:07:15 i have a 5 year old ipaq running a 4 year old version of familiar, is it legacy? Jul 21 15:07:21 right now it's more likely to make a phone call than my neo is :( Jul 21 15:07:33 legacy = systems that have to run for some reason to support certain hardware or software. Jul 21 15:07:42 idarwin, ipsec is *hideous* Jul 21 15:07:46 Rahter than you haven't just upgraded yet Jul 21 15:07:48 maybe i'm thinking of pptp Jul 21 15:07:54 legacy = the new old. :-) Jul 21 15:08:09 hideous as in setup or as in theory? Jul 21 15:10:28 oh, l2tp is what i hate. i need to learn ipsec. thanks that may be what i'm looking for. Jul 21 15:11:44 gladly, and the ipsec setup is getting easier now on BSD it's like 3 or 4 lines of config, I presume it's getting simple on Linux as well - see http://www.securityfocus.com/infocus/1859 Jul 21 15:12:24 "Many people give up on IPSec after their first peek at the horrible and complex software documentation, ..." Jul 21 15:12:29 :-) Jul 21 15:12:31 i think ipsec may make more sense than a vpn in my condition anyways... i just have an open wireless on my lan so i don't want unencrypted traffic Jul 21 15:13:17 give it a try while you wait for your phone to ship ... you've got time. Jul 21 15:13:21 yup Jul 21 15:13:58 ~p1 Jul 21 15:23:07 uhm isnt ipsec one of several ways to do vpns? Jul 21 15:23:32 yes, i think he was contrasting it with openvpn. Jul 21 15:24:16 buz, among other thing, such as opportunistic encryption Jul 21 15:31:12 any idea what software is being used for the touchscreen stuff? or is it just like a mouse driver? Jul 21 15:31:54 pretty much Jul 21 15:36:22 it's awful hard to read the actual text of the emails in the emulator Jul 21 15:36:30 gray-on-gray Jul 21 15:37:55 * * OM Bug 643 has been created by bmidgley(AT)gmail.com Jul 21 15:37:56 * * images on today screen are all "broken" images Jul 21 15:37:57 * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=643 Jul 21 15:38:56 * * OM Bug 644 has been created by bmidgley(AT)gmail.com Jul 21 15:38:57 * * no way in gui to start today screen Jul 21 15:38:58 * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=644 Jul 21 15:39:55 ipsec in transport mode doesn't alter the routing of the packet at all Jul 21 15:41:43 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[P1_Owners]] [[Getting_Started_with_your_Neo1973/fr]] [[User_talk:Michaelshiloh]] [[OpenMoko_under_QEMU]] [[OpenMoko_Local_Groups:_Toronto]] [[Talk:Getting_Started_with_your_Neo1973/fr]] Jul 21 15:44:23 so has anyone got a phone yet? Jul 21 15:44:24 theres text in the emails ? i wondered why they were empty Jul 21 15:45:17 lysanderslair: if you look very carefully, you can see that there's text (but there is practically no contrast against the background) Jul 21 15:46:01 at last ! I'm connected to qemu with ssh... Jul 21 15:46:02 Hi Jul 21 15:46:07 what an adventure that was... Jul 21 15:46:22 How can I update dist-bzip2 to 1.6 in order to build the gsm lib ? Jul 21 15:47:36 Woot my CC has been charged Jul 21 15:50:26 !google $530 as GBP Jul 21 15:50:27 Images @ http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&q=%24530+as+GBP&safe=off&lr=lang_all&um=1&sa=N&tab=wi | eBay.com.sg: ASUS F25BT55DD (F2J) NOTEBO @ http://cgi.ebay.com.sg/ASUS-F25BT55DD-F2J-NOTEBOOK-LAPTOP_W0QQitemZ220103818796QQihZ012QQcategoryZ80208QQcmdZViewItem%20class=l | VIP for SLA Members - Special Libraries @ http://www.sla.org/content/membership/mbrbenefits/vip.cfm%20class=l Jul 21 15:50:36 lardy Jul 21 15:50:55 That was... smart. Jul 21 15:51:20 btw, does the neo1973 have the iphone-esq 2-finger touchscreen? Jul 21 15:51:34 i.e., undertands two-finger commands? Jul 21 15:51:39 +s Jul 21 15:53:07 vallor: someone asked that a couple of days back. i think the answer was that the screen on gta01 doesn't, but gta02 might. Jul 21 15:53:19 ah k Jul 21 15:53:50 you mean is it multi touch... Jul 21 15:53:54 yes Jul 21 15:53:54 the anser is no Jul 21 15:54:00 answer Jul 21 15:54:07 dang! Jul 21 15:54:20 it's a possible feature on later hardware... Jul 21 15:54:22 but... Jul 21 15:54:44 they do seem to have had some luck with detecting accelerated movement Jul 21 15:54:50 eg in lists Jul 21 15:55:07 that would be helpful Jul 21 15:55:11 slow start -> accelerate = speed scroll Jul 21 15:55:26 the iphone zoom/unzoom with the two fingers is pretty slick Jul 21 15:55:34 so you could do stuff with 1 fingetr, but with speed too Jul 21 15:55:50 I assume that's like the microsoft table thing Jul 21 15:56:28 where 2 fingers 'drag' from the centre in opposite directions? Jul 21 15:56:49 yes Jul 21 15:56:50 yeah, i think you "pinch" to make things smaller and "spread" to make them bigger Jul 21 15:57:01 exactly Jul 21 15:57:18 I can think of some unique drag gestures that could do the same think in om Jul 21 15:57:22 i couldn't think for a word that was the opposite of "pinch" that doesn't make me think of goatse Jul 21 15:57:28 :( Jul 21 15:57:32 haha Jul 21 15:58:12 unpinch ;) Jul 21 15:59:15 91. Jackey Yang Nanjing, China Black/Silver 5x Advanced, #2013, YES_I_DID 14 July Jul 21 15:59:19 !!! Jul 21 15:59:24 galexande: ^^ Jul 21 15:59:27 okay! I guess getting sshd working is the next step Jul 21 16:01:20 ScaredyCat: haha Jul 21 16:01:25 ScaredyCat: what is u? Jul 21 16:01:29 u Jul 21 16:01:31 up Jul 21 16:01:38 damn keyboard Jul 21 16:01:45 #1826 - btI've been charged :) Jul 21 16:02:02 really? Jul 21 16:02:06 ya Jul 21 16:02:08 :D Jul 21 16:02:18 Woot! Jul 21 16:02:25 the terminal emulator could use some work Jul 21 16:02:26 they did a few today... Jul 21 16:02:40 or is it the shell? is it just running busybox? Jul 21 16:02:56 ScaredyCat: 5x? Jul 21 16:03:27 8 Jul 21 16:03:47 nice Jul 21 16:04:05 ScaredyCat: you ordered 8 neo? Jul 21 16:04:17 no.. :) Jul 21 16:04:36 ScaredyCat: I order 5x advanced Jul 21 16:04:47 * LarstiQ got ScaredyCat and jackey confused. Jul 21 16:04:53 i had another basic Jul 21 16:05:17 will order more late, could be a first mass production customer for openmoko Jul 21 16:05:51 jackey: do you eat them for breakfast? :) Jul 21 16:06:10 heheh Jul 21 16:06:42 jackey: you have 5 devs ready to work on them ? Jul 21 16:06:47 LarstiQ: haha, you bet Jul 21 16:07:37 ScaredyCat: I have not receive those phones yet Jul 21 16:09:02 ScaredyCat: U developer? Jul 21 16:09:08 ya Jul 21 16:09:15 ScaredyCat, in bay area? Jul 21 16:09:28 no.. in .nl and uk Jul 21 16:09:50 2 weeks in .nl, 2 weeks in uk till i sell the house in .nl Jul 21 16:09:51 ScaredyCat: Where abouts in the UK? Jul 21 16:10:05 working in suffolk Jul 21 16:10:20 just outside ipswich Jul 21 16:10:23 A long way from me then. Jul 21 16:10:36 where are you? Jul 21 16:10:42 Dorset Jul 21 16:10:49 ooo... miles away :) Jul 21 16:10:54 * cjb_ie waves from across the irish sea Jul 21 16:11:05 cjb_ie: lol Jul 21 16:11:09 erm. no pun intended with 'waves' - honest. Jul 21 16:11:26 ipswitch? :) Jul 21 16:11:55 madwoota: I think he spelt it right. Jul 21 16:11:57 damn it Jul 21 16:12:02 mmazur: I think he spelt it right. Jul 21 16:12:08 my credit card is still uncharged Jul 21 16:12:40 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ipswich Jul 21 16:12:42 made an order on July 9th morning, but still ... Jul 21 16:12:46 just because we're geeks doesn't mean ipswich becomes an IP switch :-) Jul 21 16:13:07 cjb_ie, would be fun though :) Jul 21 16:13:18 My cc card still unchard too :( Jul 21 16:14:44 There's something extremely decadent about not wanting to wait any longer for someone to take your money. Jul 21 16:15:38 holy crap - look at those floods Jul 21 16:16:48 mmazur: hear hear. ;) Jul 21 16:17:12 My card is, of course, uncharged. :( Jul 21 16:17:49 orosakr, when u made the order? Jul 21 16:19:37 in the om emulator, will time be accurate if I get networking working? Jul 21 16:20:46 vallor: If your system time is accurate then the time in the emulator should be accurate. Jul 21 16:20:56 vallor you can use date -s - after a fresh installation my time is systemtime in qemu now... Jul 21 16:21:38 or you can run date +%m%d%H%M%C%y.%S on your host, and run date with that output as its parameter on the emulator Jul 21 16:21:42 system time = ntp synced, but the emu thinks it's the ubiquitous 1970 Jul 21 16:22:00 galexande: snazzy! :) Jul 21 16:25:08 how to set LANG in openmoko shell? Jul 21 16:26:36 it is hopeless now Jul 21 16:26:57 lots of people ordered late than me have received phones Jul 21 16:27:15 jackey: I ordered on the 9th, but still haven't gotten the phone Jul 21 16:27:20 I'm playing with the emulator Jul 21 16:27:33 emulator? Jul 21 16:27:38 why yes :) Jul 21 16:27:58 i need the debug board, current software stack is so buggy Jul 21 16:28:00 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/MokoMakefile#QEMU Jul 21 16:28:08 It works quite nicely in the emulator. Jul 21 16:29:13 jackey: I don't think may - if any - have received a pdevice Jul 21 16:29:16 -p Jul 21 16:29:37 we've just had our cc's charged Jul 21 16:29:39 * mil_ expects a neo. ordered early enough :| Jul 21 16:29:59 ScaredyCat: what is your order number and the date you made the order? Jul 21 16:30:19 #1826 and the 8th Jul 21 16:30:45 the manufacturer is an hour and half driver from my city and i paid for internaltional shippment :( Jul 21 16:30:56 ouch! Jul 21 16:31:17 they'll fix the shipping I suspect.. Jul 21 16:31:25 jackey: Unfortunatly they are going via califonia. Jul 21 16:31:30 they seem to be charging what it actually costs Jul 21 16:31:56 ewanm89_laptop, u kidding me right? Jul 21 16:32:00 no Jul 21 16:32:03 he's not Jul 21 16:32:04 No Jul 21 16:32:11 they shipped them to the USA ... Jul 21 16:32:23 galexande: (from backlog) IPsec is much more powerfull than Openvpn/TLS. It depends on your scenario what to use but current IPsec implementations with their good documentation flatten the learning curve. Jul 21 16:32:24 do they have a store that i can send someone to get it? Jul 21 16:32:35 so jackey, guess ur leaving in Shanghai/Nanjin? Jul 21 16:32:43 no jackey... Jul 21 16:33:00 kensan, i'm waiting for the kernel modules to build :) Jul 21 16:33:00 I am in Nanjing, but now is in Toronto, Canada Jul 21 16:33:09 pomelo, u chinese? Jul 21 16:33:25 u bet, living in shanghai now Jul 21 16:33:55 pomelo, why u are here then? Jul 21 16:34:07 jackey: Not at the moment, they hope to have a distribution net set up for the main release. Jul 21 16:34:17 pomelo, shanghai has lots of design house Jul 21 16:34:23 galexande: The new IPsec rfcs have greatly simplified the underlying protocols, especially the key exchange (IKEv2). Jul 21 16:34:31 hmm, may u right Jul 21 16:34:45 i am working here Jul 21 16:34:54 ewanm89_laptop, they should have told me about that, so i can let then ship to CA first. I got team there too. Jul 21 16:34:56 So FIC is taiwaneese, but the factory is in china? Jul 21 16:35:11 kensan, i don't know anything about it but i think i have a racoon config that will work for me...i just need to finish upgrading all of the involved kernels Jul 21 16:35:15 factory is in Shuzhou Jul 21 16:35:53 pomelo why is it, that shanghai does not have a linux user group? Jul 21 16:36:05 galexande: Just out of curiosity: what's your vpn scenario ? Jul 21 16:36:05 at middle between Nanjing and Shanghai Jul 21 16:36:26 pomelo, u are in mobile business too Jul 21 16:36:29 kristian-m, we do have this, shlug i think is the name Jul 21 16:36:51 actually, im working 4 an erp company Jul 21 16:37:07 kensan, at the moment i have one computer running several instances of openvpn and vtun, and a bunch of clients which connect to it. Jul 21 16:37:13 pomelo, ERP outsourcing company? Jul 21 16:37:27 same question, why u are here then? Jul 21 16:37:28 pomelo oh, i havn't found one 2 years ago - nice to hear though Jul 21 16:37:38 kensan, i use vpn over lan because my lan is open to wifi, mostly to authenticate that the IP is owned by the proper NFS client Jul 21 16:38:09 kristian-m, you can check geekbone.org to see if it works Jul 21 16:38:16 :) Jul 21 16:38:56 and jackey, not quite get ur question, here for openmoko or why i am located in SH? Jul 21 16:39:25 ScaredyCat: where in .nl is the house you are selling? Jul 21 16:39:44 pomelo, i mean why you are also interested in openmoko? Jul 21 16:39:56 i thought you are from wireless industry like i do Jul 21 16:40:23 hmm.... is there some trick to getting sound from the qemu working? Jul 21 16:40:24 I'm not in any business, yet I'm interested in FOSS and openmoko. Jul 21 16:41:00 FOSS? Jul 21 16:41:01 LarstiQ: Leleystad Jul 21 16:41:08 -e Jul 21 16:41:09 an interesting gizmo to play around, mobile devices always raise my apetites Jul 21 16:41:39 ScaredyCat: ah, a bit too far away for me unfortunately. Jul 21 16:41:43 jackey: Free and Open Source Software Jul 21 16:41:51 100% for personal interests Jul 21 16:41:51 haha Jul 21 16:42:16 LarstiQ: :'( Jul 21 16:42:37 ScaredyCat: but if you happen to be selling a house in Delft, let me know ;) Jul 21 16:42:46 Chief-executive of T-mobile-UK on Radio 4 now Jul 21 16:42:47 ScaredyCat: good luck with yours Jul 21 16:42:50 About iphone Jul 21 16:42:54 pomelo, nice to meet u man. I am from www.archermind.com, a mobile outsourcing company Jul 21 16:43:07 LarstiQ: ta. ... it's slow sadly :( Jul 21 16:43:21 A 'interview important buisness people' program Jul 21 16:44:01 SpeedEvil, iPhone is great but evil Jul 21 16:44:52 Open hardware would be good. Jul 21 16:45:06 Otherwise... Jul 21 16:45:07 jackey: so i guess u guyz may wanna dig some possibilities on openmoko? Jul 21 16:45:59 pomelo, some kind of, we do not do product. But couple customers are interested in this platform Jul 21 16:46:11 we are requested to do some investment for them. Jul 21 16:46:46 jackey oh, I read you've got quite a rich boss :) Jul 21 16:46:49 we did phone product before, i would like to contribute my industrial experience to make openmoko a product Jul 21 16:47:18 zecke: are you here ? Jul 21 16:47:32 kristian-m, u mean Jiping Wang? Yep, he is quite famous in mobile software area. Jul 21 16:47:45 also he is rich Jul 21 16:47:53 sort of Jul 21 16:48:27 zecke: sorry to bother you, you wrote the rss reader application right ? Jul 21 16:48:41 Skwid_: sort of :) Jul 21 16:49:02 heh. zecke is too modest (as always) Jul 21 16:49:07 zecke: I have a C / Gtk app that reads an xml file, and I would like to port it to openmoko, but i'm not sure how to add an application to my local copy etc Jul 21 16:49:13 is there any documentation on that ? Jul 21 16:49:30 I would like to duplicate the rss reader app, and go from there to learn Jul 21 16:49:40 Skwid_: bitbake and quilt. Jul 21 16:49:44 but I'm not sure how to add an entry to the menu etc Jul 21 16:49:57 mickeyl: well, I need get around to send a mail to your designers to get a spec for the config dialog Jul 21 16:50:14 I looked last night, but the applications didn't seem to be in packages Jul 21 16:50:36 the openmoko-* ones Jul 21 16:51:11 Skwid_: I started with looking at the chordmaster example application and documented the short comings of my approach in a text file Jul 21 16:51:27 where could i find that example ? Jul 21 16:51:41 Skwid_: as to your "local copy" question. I have OpenMoko compiled against gtk+ 2.10 on my desktop and run it like any other app on my desktop Jul 21 16:51:56 ah, i see Jul 21 16:52:17 Skwid_: the base directory: https://svn.openmoko.org/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/ Jul 21 16:52:20 i run it under qemu for now Jul 21 16:52:40 Skwid_: https://svn.openmoko.org/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/applications/openmoko-chordmaster/ chordmaster Jul 21 16:53:03 Skwid_: it is easy to let it run on your desktop. You just need to build eds-dbus, libgsmd and the moko libraries Jul 21 16:53:06 oh cool Jul 21 16:53:19 I run under qemu, the openmoko ones are grabbed from svn and compiled on make openmoko-dev-image Jul 21 16:54:13 i'll look at the chordmaster app Jul 21 16:54:18 an announcement in the topic regarding the emulator being available might be useful :) Jul 21 16:54:42 so if i add something to /home/moko/openmoko/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/applications and compile it Jul 21 16:54:56 will it show up somewhere on my qemu if i reflash ? Jul 21 16:55:05 val: it is in the faq... Jul 21 16:56:18 Skwid_: not quite Jul 21 16:56:54 ewanm89_laptop: ah :( Jul 21 16:57:08 once I figure all this out, i'll be glad to make a wiki page for the following courageous souls ;) Jul 21 16:57:26 Skwid_: create a bitbake recipe to say how to build it, then edit tasks/task-openmoko to depend on that recipe. Jul 21 16:57:36 Skwid_: need to add it to trunk/oe/packages/tasks/task-openmoko.bb's bitbake file like discribed in the wiki. or your app is not in the om-devel-image Jul 21 16:57:51 Skwid_: It's on the mokomakefile page. Jul 21 16:58:25 hum i didn't find it there Jul 21 16:58:46 thank you very much mil_ and ewanm89_laptop for the info ! Jul 21 17:00:17 ewanm89_laptop: oh, now I see it Jul 21 17:00:59 but I was confused because when I looked in the packages/ directory, none of the openmoko-* apps were there, and in the openmoko-* apps directories, there are no .bb files Jul 21 17:01:05 so I wasn't sure if they used the same mechanism Jul 21 17:03:26 so I can create a package and have it in the target/OM-2007/applications folder ? Jul 21 17:05:51 oh, i see this: https://svn.openmoko.org/trunk/oe/packages/openmoko-apps/ Jul 21 17:12:41 so, my only remaining questions are, where should i put my application's folder in the tree ? and where should i put the dependency in task-openmoko.bb Jul 21 17:12:42 ? Jul 21 17:12:44 hmm, even if I explicitly configure & build qemu-system-arm with "--enable-alsa", I still don't see any "Valid sound card names" when starting it with "-soundhw ?" -- is it using alsa, or is the driver lower-level than that? (p.s. I see in the qemu faq that asound.conf has to be set up correctly, investigating that...) Jul 21 17:16:24 ewanm89_laptop: where should i put the app folder in the tree ? Jul 21 17:16:26 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973_Audio_Subsystem Jul 21 17:23:01 ALSA device list: Jul 21 17:23:01 No soundcards found. Jul 21 17:23:29 (using -serial stdout to read the boot messages) Jul 21 17:24:22 Skwid_: You don't Jul 21 17:25:08 ewanm89_laptop: ok now i'm totally confused :) Jul 21 17:25:31 Skwid_: Put the source in a tar.gz Jul 21 17:26:10 oh, right Jul 21 17:26:15 and use the SRC_URI Jul 21 17:27:15 so then, i only add a folder to the packages directory ? and where do i add my dependency in the task-openmoko.bb Jul 21 17:27:18 does it even matter ? Jul 21 17:27:44 Skwid_: You got it, then you use quilt to make a patch that adds that .bb file and edits task-openmoko.bb Jul 21 17:28:20 hum, i think i'm starting to get it :) Jul 21 17:28:30 Folder with .bb inside (use quilt else it will get destroyed by svn update. Jul 21 17:29:29 ah Jul 21 17:29:39 so everything that gets added needs to be through quilt Jul 21 17:30:13 last question i promise :) Jul 21 17:30:31 does it matter where i put the line in task-openmoko.bb ewanm89_laptop ? Jul 21 17:30:49 Then edit task-openmoko.bb, increase PR number by one and add it tor RDEPENDS just before # update-alternatives \ Jul 21 17:31:14 Evrything in the tree should be edited through quilt. Jul 21 17:31:28 s/Evr/Ever/ Jul 21 17:31:28 ewanm89_laptop meant: Everything in the tree should be edited through quilt. Jul 21 17:31:35 ok Jul 21 17:31:38 makes perfect sense Jul 21 17:31:53 thank you very much ! i think i'll be able to manage from here :) Jul 21 17:32:31 bye ! Jul 21 17:41:23 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Wish_List_-_Hardware]] [[User:Moko_bunny]] [[P1_Owners]] [[Anti-Theft_Mode]] [[Wish_List]] [[OSvS]] [[Shipping_Notes:phase1_Poland]] [[Application_UI_Design_Recommendations]] [[Translation]] Jul 21 17:51:49 my card got charged! Jul 21 17:52:01 gratz Jul 21 17:52:08 thx Jul 21 17:52:56 Does anyone know about ATMs? Jul 21 17:53:12 know about what? Jul 21 17:53:24 Chase's ATMs use windows Jul 21 17:53:44 I went to make a deposit at one and loe and behold there was a windows error up then (in the regular winxp theme) Jul 21 17:53:55 oh ATMs != at the moment Jul 21 17:54:07 and had to go to the next block where the atm's were working Jul 21 17:54:17 But now I'm weary about using them if they run windows Jul 21 17:54:35 With all the security flaws I would have figured that the bank would not want to use windows Jul 21 17:54:40 nearly all ATMs run windows Jul 21 17:54:49 like - 80 til 90% at least Jul 21 17:54:57 really? why? Jul 21 17:55:05 because they do. Jul 21 17:55:14 no, dont ask me why, its just this way Jul 21 17:55:37 calamous: my observations agree with Ganneff. No idea why they want to, but they do. Jul 21 17:55:43 I took some pics of the error msg and the atm, is there a place where I can submit them to like a broken embedded windows site Jul 21 17:55:55 or does anyone want them emailed Jul 21 17:56:01 its not only an observation, its also what banks and the atm manufacturers say :) Jul 21 17:57:14 Ganneff thought they where using os2 Jul 21 17:57:22 no, not the ATMs Jul 21 17:57:23 Knowing microsoft. I'm wondering if I can enter a really long pin number and cause a buffer overflow Jul 21 17:57:42 overwrite the return address to the giveMeMoney subrouteine Jul 21 17:57:46 Ganneff: ah, I've never actually been party to bank communications like that :) Jul 21 17:58:07 hm the terminals of my bank uses pc hardware I spotted them serval times booting Jul 21 17:58:22 but without escape key no bios Jul 21 17:58:28 entry Jul 21 17:58:29 *g* Jul 21 17:59:04 Does anyone know of people cracking an ATM? Jul 21 17:59:14 yes Jul 21 17:59:20 all ATMs expect the magnetic card to be encoded a certain way Jul 21 17:59:40 usually people just use the default operator password. Jul 21 17:59:41 the deliverded them and didnt change the factory key Jul 21 17:59:53 and the factory key was in one document Jul 21 17:59:55 If someone got a card writer and put something it didnt except that may work (of course it would be more soficistaated) Jul 21 18:00:08 Ohh wow Jul 21 18:00:15 so they change the code that the automat puts out 50$ instaed of $20 notes Jul 21 18:00:15 default passwords Jul 21 18:00:22 let me see if I find the story Jul 21 18:00:31 woglide: thats funny Jul 21 18:00:57 woglinde but it was accounting for $50 though Jul 21 18:01:14 dont know Jul 21 18:01:26 If I remeberd correctly Jul 21 18:01:33 they only spoted it Jul 21 18:01:37 actually, it put out $20 while thinking it was putting out $1. Jul 21 18:01:43 it's a *very* common ATM hack. Jul 21 18:01:48 because he once forget to switch the firmware back Jul 21 18:01:49 :-) Jul 21 18:02:05 and other customers got that Jul 21 18:02:08 too Jul 21 18:02:44 lol Jul 21 18:02:57 I see ATMs in public all the time, the old school ones, that have a phone line going to wall Jul 21 18:02:57 so, we're upto rt #2053 now... Jul 21 18:03:09 It would be nice to tap that line and cap the session Jul 21 18:03:18 hmm Jul 21 18:03:18 and you can study bank-atm-money-protocol Jul 21 18:03:22 calamous: hm? it's not just old school ones that use a modem. Jul 21 18:03:24 how do we track rt numbers ? Jul 21 18:03:52 mine happens to be 1204th order Jul 21 18:04:09 cjb: At banks I see tell terminals with their computer backs facing the customer. I dont think it would be hard to disconnect the network and but a tapping device between it Jul 21 18:04:10 empty_mind: how'd you get that? Jul 21 18:04:20 i'm just going by: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/P1_Owners Jul 21 18:04:20 well someone told me a calculation Jul 21 18:04:28 rt no. minus 1820 Jul 21 18:04:29 Or take the keyboard out and put a key logger Jul 21 18:04:43 empty_mind: that might not be foolproof :) Jul 21 18:04:47 they make small key loggers that fit between the ps2 port and kb Jul 21 18:05:19 they hold about 32K of data Jul 21 18:05:26 i think if you took a keylogger to a bank and were trying to install it, someone would be suspicious :) Jul 21 18:05:36 wear a jumpsuit and look like you belong Jul 21 18:05:38 not software Jul 21 18:05:42 its hardware Jul 21 18:05:47 i know Jul 21 18:05:47 Ever see the movie Chaos? Damn good movie. Jul 21 18:05:51 'install' applies to both Jul 21 18:06:00 well my rt no was 3024 i think, let me check Jul 21 18:06:32 ferric: alright. but bank employees seem so absent minded set a bag down and "acidently" knock it out. say "i'm sorry let me connect that for you" Jul 21 18:07:10 ah yes my rt no is 3024 Jul 21 18:07:23 ferric: there was a recent case where a 6 year old was used to install a keylogger on a member of parliaments computer. Jul 21 18:07:26 At my school we have the usually college meal plan and you swipe your college ID. the machies connect to the regualar network Jul 21 18:07:49 SpeedEvil: where was that? Jul 21 18:07:55 ferric: for a newspaper - UK. Jul 21 18:08:33 ferric: distract MP, who doesn't expect 6yo to do anything bad. They unplug the keyb and plug it into logger, and plug logger back in Jul 21 18:08:45 SpeedEvil: Who did they find out? Jul 21 18:08:50 scary! Jul 21 18:08:53 Since its in the news I assume that it was foiled Jul 21 18:09:34 sorry Jul 21 18:09:38 dont find it now Jul 21 18:09:41 maybee later Jul 21 18:09:49 SpeedEvil: Do you know who they found out? Jul 21 18:14:38 Does anyone think it was a little odd that some people were billed on saturday? Jul 21 18:14:54 No Jul 21 18:15:19 i wish i was Jul 21 18:15:31 me too Jul 21 18:16:01 calamous: It was a stunt by a newspaper. Jul 21 18:17:13 calamous:they might have been billed on friday, and it showed up on saturday. normally banks clear their billing after close of business. Jul 21 18:18:54 Ok alright. Jul 21 18:20:51 well the confirmation mail was sent on saturday Jul 21 18:22:36 fyi - just read in the latest ADC-mail: http://developer.apple.com/iphone/ Jul 21 18:26:00 so google is trying to buy wireless spectrum in th US... and release an open phone Jul 21 18:26:30 only there willbe text ads on the phone, heh! Jul 21 18:27:24 ferric .oO(Pizza-Key) Jul 21 18:28:26 hehe Jul 21 18:38:48 any word on dual mode wifi/gsm yet? Jul 21 18:38:48 Currently sold Neo1973 GTA01B_v04 (P1) doesn't have WiFi, GTA02 (P2) which is scheduled for October will have WiFi with free (libre) drivers (Atheros AR6K): http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ#Q:_What_is_the_rationale_behind_the_exclusion_of_WiFi.3F Jul 21 18:39:42 for next gen hardware release, that is Jul 21 18:47:29 mokobot: wifi is Currently sold Neo1973 GTA01B_v04 (P1) doesn't have WiFi, GTA02 (P2) which is scheduled for October will have WiFi with free (libre) drivers (Atheros AR6K): http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ#Q:_What_is_the_rationale_behind_the_exclusion_of_WiFi.3F Jul 21 18:47:30 ewanm89_laptop: okay Jul 21 18:47:38 ~wifi Jul 21 18:47:38 Currently sold Neo1973 GTA01B_v04 (P1) doesn't have WiFi, GTA02 (P2) which is scheduled for October will have WiFi with free (libre) drivers (Atheros AR6K): http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ#Q:_What_is_the_rationale_behind_the_exclusion_of_WiFi.3F Jul 21 18:47:41 i heard wifi is see wireless or for a small compact non-port-blocking card, get one of these a) linksys wcf12 for only $65 shipped from buy.com b) netgear MA701NA for $65 shipped from buy.com c) socket LOW POWER wlan (amazing battery life) for $160 + shipping on buy.com, or better than nothing Jul 21 18:49:46 counter Jul 21 18:49:46 (last update 2007-07-21 06:20) http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter : Order https://direct.openmoko.com/ ; Shipping prob. 75% in 4 days 05:10:08 (4.215±2.5 days) (1766;249) Jul 21 18:57:03 (script) planet: Koen Kooi: Guadec 2007 http://dominion.kabel.utwente.nl/koen/cms/guadec-2007 Jul 21 19:11:05 moo Jul 21 19:11:13 hi all Jul 21 19:11:14 what up Pussy? Jul 21 19:11:32 miaoo Jul 21 19:11:35 ScaredyCat, Jul 21 19:11:37 hi all Jul 21 19:12:01 Greetings earthlings Jul 21 19:12:13 Pussy? Jul 21 19:12:13 ow god Jul 21 19:12:21 * Ophelia is An Unearthly Child Jul 21 19:12:24 heh Jul 21 19:12:45 ewanm89_laptop: i managed to add the package and everything, but when i do 'make update all' i get this error: make[3]: *** No rule to make target `hotspots.o', needed by `hotspots'. Stop. Jul 21 19:13:00 * ferric goes to get lunch Jul 21 19:13:01 ewanm89_laptop: i just zipped one of the examples Jul 21 19:13:53 It should be make "update openmoko-devel image" Jul 21 19:14:06 a Jul 21 19:14:24 s/make "update openmoko-devel image"/"make update openmoko-devel image" Jul 21 19:14:27 s/make "update openmoko-devel image"/"make update openmoko-devel image"/ Jul 21 19:14:27 ewanm89_laptop meant: s/"make update openmoko-devel image"/"make update openmoko-devel image" Jul 21 19:15:04 thanks :) Jul 21 19:15:19 * Skwid_ is trying to follow what's in MokoMakefile Jul 21 19:15:26 i'll see if this works Jul 21 19:16:34 Now at patch hotspots.patch Jul 21 19:16:34 make: *** No rule to make target `openmoko-devel'. Stop. Jul 21 19:16:55 oops Jul 21 19:16:58 i think it needs a dash Jul 21 19:18:27 Skwid_: Yes it does. Jul 21 19:18:32 :) Jul 21 19:22:13 ewanm89_laptop: i still get the same error Jul 21 19:22:54 Skwid_: Can you pastebin a little more output please? Jul 21 19:23:15 sure Jul 21 19:23:30 how long does the battery of the GTA01 hold? Jul 21 19:23:49 loufoque: Nobodies actually done reports. Jul 21 19:23:54 http://pastebin.com/m608d3468 Jul 21 19:24:05 At least as far as I'm aware, which means it hasn't happened :) Jul 21 19:24:14 Or on the power managment page on the wiki Jul 21 19:24:20 ~Power Jul 21 19:24:21 [power] for newer opie releases you need to have apmd installed to have a working power button. or see external power, or the derivative of energy with respect to time Jul 21 19:24:35 Oh - I thought that was a special wiki title matching thing Jul 21 19:25:39 SpeedEvil: you don't have one? Jul 21 19:25:45 SpeedEvil: No, um I see if I could implement one. Jul 21 19:25:50 I don't. Jul 21 19:25:57 how come? Jul 21 19:26:07 loufoque: Because I don't. Jul 21 19:26:21 :) Jul 21 19:26:37 Not delivered yet? Jul 21 19:26:38 Skwid_ was there anny error before hotspots.o couldn't be found? Jul 21 19:27:07 loufoque: I have had an offer from someone who bought 2, to get one from them. Jul 21 19:30:41 kristian-m: i don't think so Jul 21 19:31:03 kristian-m: that's the whole log file right there Jul 21 19:32:14 Skwid_: Was it hotspots you added? Jul 21 19:35:31 ewanm89_laptop: yes Jul 21 19:36:42 ewanm89_laptop: and for the source file, i just zipped up the application there: http://svn.openmoko.org/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/examples/openmoko-panel-demo/ Jul 21 19:36:49 with the right folder name (hotspots-1) Jul 21 19:37:01 t-mobile hotspots? Jul 21 19:37:20 oh actually, it was the stylus demo, but i don't think it makes a difference Jul 21 19:37:28 Qwell: uh ? Jul 21 19:37:33 nothing :p Jul 21 19:37:58 Um, that's made to compile from svn as defined by it's bitbake file? Jul 21 19:38:31 ah, ok Jul 21 19:39:24 is there another sample app i can use ? Jul 21 19:39:47 Skwid_ can you go to hotspots-1-r0 adn run ./temp/run_do_comp - and then pastbin the output? Jul 21 19:39:57 openmoko-theme-standard.postinst seems to do things wrong since I updated my tree: line 3: echo 'include "/usr/share/themes/openmoko-standard/gtk-2.0/gtkrc"' > /etc/gtk-2.0/gtkrc. It tries to replace my gtkrc ! Jul 21 19:41:23 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Wish_List_-_Hardware_-_Atmospheric]] [[P1_Owners]] [[Development_resources]] Jul 21 19:41:58 is there a way to modprobe dummy_hcd with ubuntu? Jul 21 19:42:11 kristian-m: http://pastebin.com/d35c23402 Jul 21 19:42:40 skuff sure Jul 21 19:42:57 hm oh Jul 21 19:43:02 whats dummy_hcd? Jul 21 19:43:06 Skwid_ uh, ./temp/run_do_compile.30257 Jul 21 19:43:13 if you have it as module you cann load it Jul 21 19:43:18 woglinde, wb Jul 21 19:43:26 he guillaum1 Jul 21 19:43:29 one of there modules u need for the usb-connection Jul 21 19:43:43 I am now watching basketball u19 wm after that I will on the packages Jul 21 19:43:55 work Jul 21 19:44:05 kristian-m: i get the same error as in the first pastebin Jul 21 19:44:55 http://pastebin.com/d7bd0aa3 Jul 21 19:45:22 do i have to compile the kernel or is there a precompiled dummy_hcd somewhere? Jul 21 19:45:23 Skwid_ you've just replaced the name of the package? Jul 21 19:45:29 woglinde, cool. ping me when ready Jul 21 19:46:02 Skwid_ have you changed any configuration in there already? - created new sourcefiles? Jul 21 19:46:07 kristian-m: yeah, no Jul 21 19:46:19 just changed the name of the folder Jul 21 19:46:28 and created the .bb file Jul 21 19:46:34 and modified the task bb file Jul 21 19:47:41 Skwid_ i guess the buildsystem somehow expects you to have the main file of the application named after the projectname - but there must be a tuturial on that somewhere Jul 21 19:48:04 i couldn't find anything Jul 21 19:48:13 i'll try changing all the name occurences Jul 21 19:51:29 Skwid_ have a look at: http://www.openembedded.org/user-manual&dpage=recipes_examples Jul 21 19:51:57 ok thanks ! Jul 21 19:52:03 have fun :) Jul 21 19:52:25 i just looked on the openmoko wiki, i should have looked on OE as well Jul 21 19:52:27 thank you very much ! :) Jul 21 19:54:57 just came back from holidays... reading the topic there is no experience as of now what the customs/vat charges for europe are, I assume? Jul 21 19:55:22 Nope. Nothing's shipped quite yet, apparently. Jul 21 19:55:35 a few people got cards charged though. Hasn't hit 1860 yet though Jul 21 19:55:39 gamin germany 19% Jul 21 19:55:40 thanks Aria Jul 21 19:56:01 woglinde: so no customs duty? Jul 21 19:56:12 aeh plus Jul 21 19:56:23 shipping plus 19% vat Jul 21 19:56:52 okay, so just vat but no customs duty - or whatever that is called Jul 21 19:57:46 Aria: 1860? is that the number of avail phones? Jul 21 19:58:02 No -- order numbers. They start at 1820ish. Jul 21 19:58:21 just 40 orders? Jul 21 19:58:24 (and go on over 3K now) Jul 21 19:58:29 Less than 40 have been charged. Jul 21 19:58:44 Assuming they charge in order. Jul 21 19:58:56 ah okay, so some 1200 orders Jul 21 19:59:01 At least. Jul 21 19:59:29 so it will take some more time... Jul 21 20:00:05 Looks like #2088 is the highest charged according to http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/P1_Owners Jul 21 20:00:09 Yeah. I suspect they're processing manually at first. Jul 21 20:00:21 OH, wow. Some higher numbers in there. Jul 21 20:00:34 * mjr is not charged at #18xx Jul 21 20:00:45 * Aria either. Jul 21 20:00:45 1851, to be exact Jul 21 20:00:50 2088? Jul 21 20:00:51 1859 here. Jul 21 20:00:52 All the higher ones seem to be advanced though. Jul 21 20:00:53 They're getting close! Jul 21 20:00:58 Aria, :( Jul 21 20:01:50 charkins: thanks for the link Jul 21 20:02:12 so most people order one and a few order two... Jul 21 20:02:13 It's funny how anxious everyone is. I'm guilty of it as well. :-) Jul 21 20:02:36 Me to Jul 21 20:02:38 too Jul 21 20:03:10 thanks god I was on holidays with no internet at all :-P Jul 21 20:03:32 * Aria laughs Jul 21 20:03:33 charkins: http://xkcd.com/c281.html might be appropriate in this context. ;) Jul 21 20:03:47 I've just been struggling with the build environment, trying to get things in order. Jul 21 20:04:00 Demitar: lol Jul 21 20:04:14 Aria, struggle, document, package. We wouldn't want to waste my time, now would we ;) Jul 21 20:04:19 so I haven't missed out anything - Jul 21 20:04:27 good to know Jul 21 20:04:33 * Aria laughs. I am trying, mmazur. It fights using host-provided tools HARD though. Jul 21 20:04:40 So unless you want a 300mb RPM... Jul 21 20:05:13 Take your time, take your time :) Jul 21 20:12:13 hmm. Jul 21 20:12:22 I'm having some difficulty building openmoko via mokomakefile. Jul 21 20:13:09 can't find the openmoko-mainmenu package, therefore can't satisfy task-openmoko-base, followed by an attempt to write to /etc/gtk-2.0/gtkrc. Jul 21 20:13:33 has anyone seen this before, or do I just need to back up and start again somewhere? Jul 21 20:15:48 I get the feeling it needs to be chroot'ed and it's not. Jul 21 20:16:37 Moriarty_ what is the output of your build? Jul 21 20:16:52 Moriarty_ can you pastebin tit? Jul 21 20:16:58 sure. Jul 21 20:17:04 * Moriarty_ trundles off to pastebin. Jul 21 20:19:24 http://pastebin.com/d2e361f3e Jul 21 20:19:43 It does say 'successfully terminated', but I'm not sure it all got finished due to the errors. Jul 21 20:21:52 Moriarty_ hmm it seems as if you would have to allow write access to /etc/gtk-2.0/gtkrc - maybe a chroot is a good idea though Jul 21 20:22:34 well, I'm running the whole shebang in its own virtual machine (I didn't want the openembedded packages cluttering up my main environment) Jul 21 20:23:05 this looks to me like ipkg isn't chrooted into the new rootfs properly. Jul 21 20:24:02 you are starting make from a chrooted shell, right? Jul 21 20:24:17 chrooted into where? Jul 21 20:24:29 I'm using the mokomakefile at the moment. Jul 21 20:24:59 what kind of virtual mashine are you using? Jul 21 20:25:12 it's a xen guest. Jul 21 20:25:29 I doubt that would affect it though. Jul 21 20:29:47 mickey|dinner: when to use G_SIGNAL_ACTION? Jul 21 20:30:22 Moriarty_ sry i haven't used xen yet - but i guess you could allow writing to /etc/gtk-2.0/gtkrc if its a virtual machine anyway... Jul 21 20:31:09 I could , but that's so... inelegant. Jul 21 20:31:18 :) Jul 21 20:31:48 I think the root problem is still the lack of openmoko-mainmenu, which doesn't seem to exist according to bitbake. Jul 21 20:36:53 hi Jul 21 20:40:14 hi pitux Jul 21 20:41:01 neo1973 can open pdf file? Jul 21 20:41:06 The answer to almost all software questions is 'no'. There is very little working software - the dialer just about works. Jul 21 20:41:22 At some point in the future, it will be able to. Jul 21 20:41:59 Woot! Hacking through the bb files to eliminate references to *-native speeds the build way up. Jul 21 20:42:11 I'm impressed it's that transparent. Jul 21 20:42:28 Well - you can now, using xpdf and stuff. Jul 21 20:42:35 :) Jul 21 20:42:41 But, it's not a 'proper' pretty app. Jul 21 20:44:01 zecke: whenever you want 3rd party to be able to emit your signal Jul 21 20:44:24 zecke: usually, only the gobject itself is allowed to emit its signals Jul 21 20:44:43 zecke: ACTION means "yes, 3rd party can emit this signal as well to trigger something" Jul 21 20:47:42 mickeyl: RUN_FIRST vs. RUN_LAST? Jul 21 20:48:11 mickeyl: virtual functions vs. signals with default handlers, what is your opinion on that one? Jul 21 20:49:28 why there is Accelerometer on the neo1973? Jul 21 20:50:49 zecke: RUN_FIRST or RUN_LAST only is relevant when you have default handlers, which I usually wouldn't recommend. Jul 21 20:51:02 zecke: I think virtual functions are more sane Jul 21 20:51:16 but that's just a gut feeling Jul 21 20:51:37 mickeyl: who are you anyway? What am I doing here? Jul 21 20:51:54 I'll try out epdfview next... :-) Jul 21 20:52:01 i'm just a random CS guy with a doctoral degree thinking I have any talent :D Jul 21 20:52:15 zecke: you are a student with talent trying to find things you like :D Jul 21 20:52:16 mickeyl: if you want to play mentor you could take a look at my API Jul 21 20:52:35 sure thing. where can i review that? Jul 21 20:53:18 mickeyl: http://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=14678 and I can give you a pointer to the WebView (mac) and WebKitQt (Qt) API Jul 21 20:53:40 zecke: fair enough. i'm going to look at that tomorrow Jul 21 20:53:58 pitux: gta02 has accellerometer because you can use them to enhance the UI significantly Jul 21 20:54:00 mickeyl: BTW: I don't think we need e17 on the neo, we should just use WebKit for all the rendering :) Jul 21 20:54:15 zecke: hahaha, I figured that all the GTK work would pollute your mind. Jul 21 20:54:30 mickeyl ok thx Jul 21 20:55:05 zecke: and is piro? Jul 21 20:55:08 use* Jul 21 20:55:21 (or whatever that guadec online desktop thingy is called) Jul 21 20:55:35 mickeyl: it went so far, I started annoy/confuse antenna. Being a KDE hacker, using a Mac and doing Gtk+ development wanting to relocate to Cupertino Jul 21 20:55:47 mickeyl: And I'm just a random guy that hopes to go to university next year to study CS and thinks I got a little talent. Jul 21 20:55:58 koen: that is firefox :) Jul 21 20:56:08 koen: but it looks like a nice idea, specially the compositing Jul 21 20:56:25 koen: but it is a lame rip off of smalltalk Jul 21 20:57:02 mickeyl: did you like the 'table' clutter demo? Jul 21 20:57:12 the one with the pictures and movie on a surface Jul 21 20:57:17 koen: I must confess i didn't see that yet Jul 21 20:57:22 zecke: :) Jul 21 20:57:38 zecke: sounds like i must meet you again to slap some sanity into your mind again ;) Jul 21 20:57:42 is that the microsoft one? Jul 21 20:58:11 spank me all night through Jul 21 20:58:22 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rP5y7yp06n0 Jul 21 20:58:30 mickeyl: it's a virtual table with items on it you can drag, enlarge, shrink, rotate, etc with you finger(s) Jul 21 20:58:41 koen: sounds like fun Jul 21 20:58:44 koen: ^^ Jul 21 20:58:45 If it is the microsoft one, I've seen the vid, and the sunlight coming throught the window would make it useless. Jul 21 20:59:09 talking about microsoft http://hideapod.com/ Jul 21 20:59:24 the spoof one is amusing too http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZrr7AZ9nCY Jul 21 20:59:24 ewanm89_laptop: I believe the concept is more important than implementation here:) Jul 21 20:59:41 mickeyl: it's like that youtube video ScaredyCat just linked Jul 21 20:59:59 "it's our getto surface demo" in mallums words Jul 21 21:00:05 mmp: I don't like the implementor either, they lied on there website. Jul 21 21:00:21 koen: someone did a make on how to create your own Jul 21 21:00:42 I know how to create my own :) Jul 21 21:00:46 mickeyl: Am I right to assume that GConf will be used to store configuration data? If so, have there already been rules decided on which path to use? Jul 21 21:00:47 I'm just too lazy Jul 21 21:01:29 abraxa_: hey. yes, feel free use GConf. no, we don't have any fixed paths yet. Jul 21 21:01:46 abraxa_: btw., did you fax everything necessary to google? otherwise you don't get money from them. ask zecke which and what to fax to where Jul 21 21:02:13 abraxa_: oh and another thing... do you have time for a phone call monday or tuesday? there are some things i want to ask you, but I'm too lazy to type everything :) Jul 21 21:02:14 * zecke is the fax master Jul 21 21:02:29 Great spoof. Jul 21 21:02:34 zecke: you mean VAX Jul 21 21:02:59 yeah, but not the computer... the vacuum :) Jul 21 21:03:04 koen: for money I'm everything you want Jul 21 21:03:22 mickeyl: Yeah, google has been happy for a while now and of course we can talk - as I said I'm pretty much home all day, though, so I'll leave it up to you to decide on the time Jul 21 21:03:38 * zecke got tagged as 'whore' by antenna... :( Jul 21 21:03:39 abraxa_: cool. please mail me a landline and I'll call you on monday Jul 21 21:03:52 mickeyl: Okay, will do =) Jul 21 21:03:55 thx Jul 21 21:04:06 ~curse people not catching up with APIs Jul 21 21:04:08 May you be reincarnated as a Windows XP administrator, people not catching up with APIs ! Jul 21 21:04:11 ~curse abiword Jul 21 21:04:11 May the fleas of a thousand camels infest your most sensitive regions, abiword ! Jul 21 21:04:31 then again Jul 21 21:04:34 ~shoot people breaking APIs Jul 21 21:04:35 * apt shoots people breaking APIs in the ear with a quantum singularity weapon! Jul 21 21:05:15 well, you can't catch up with API changes that haven't happened yet :) Jul 21 21:05:31 yay Jul 21 21:06:10 ScaredyCat: see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzNh31q61gc Jul 21 21:06:52 Or anyone else that wants to know about real multitouch. Jul 21 21:08:50 ewanm89_laptop: but the $2 probably do not include camera :) Jul 21 21:09:26 mmp: lol, but any webcam will do. Jul 21 21:09:43 Which can be had at a thrift shop for $2 ;-) Jul 21 21:10:46 yeah shoot people breaking apis Jul 21 21:13:49 Hello, everyone. Jul 21 21:14:36 On http://buildhost.openmoko.org/tmp/deploy/images/, latest image seems to be from 04 jul... that's way too old... is there newer image somewhere? Jul 21 21:15:03 * pavelm would like to get ringing to work. Jul 21 21:16:38 uhuh, pretty quiet around here, am I on the right channel...? Jul 21 21:16:49 dunno, what channel do you think you're on? Jul 21 21:17:08 hello folks Jul 21 21:17:12 hi pavelm Jul 21 21:17:47 hi, woglinde Jul 21 21:17:58 Hi pavelm Jul 21 21:18:10 mellon: the one about openmoko, it is normally pretty busy :-) Jul 21 21:18:13 hello, ewan! Jul 21 21:18:18 multitouch with mpx: http://www.youtube.com/v/olWjnfBoY8E Jul 21 21:18:31 everybody is into shipping and CC charging :p Jul 21 21:18:57 ynezz: I'd hope buildhost can still compile :-) Jul 21 21:19:00 CAN I HAS NEO Jul 21 21:19:02 ? Jul 21 21:19:50 i has break my phone Jul 21 21:20:03 Hi, mickeyl! Jul 21 21:20:15 yo pavelm, how are things? Jul 21 21:20:43 pavelm, it's the weekend, and we are all out bicycling and sailing, enjoying our lack of connectivity. ;') Jul 21 21:20:55 ...searching for newer openmoko images... than jul4. I'd like to get phone ringing to work, so that neo can be used as a real phone.. Jul 21 21:21:17 ...well... as a "call me" real phone :-) Jul 21 21:21:41 pavelm wait till oktober Jul 21 21:21:43 pavelm: is it broken ? in any way ? Jul 21 21:21:47 * woglinde runs fast away Jul 21 21:22:16 ~shoot woglinde Jul 21 21:22:17 * apt shoots woglinde in the head with a quantum singularity weapon! Jul 21 21:22:28 * pavelm gets a horse and catches woglinde Jul 21 21:23:03 where can i find a list of things broken that need fixing ? Jul 21 21:23:17 phones are being shipped... Is there some reasonably good image to load on phase1? Jul 21 21:23:23 IR2: bugzilla.openmoko.org Jul 21 21:24:23 night guys. Jul 21 21:24:48 night, ewan. Jul 21 21:33:10 http://www.microsoft.com Jul 21 21:33:13 :) Jul 21 21:33:25 tht was for you IR2 Jul 21 21:33:31 pavelm: unfortunately not. the best bet is my last snapshot Jul 21 21:33:45 i'm working hard to provide a new snapshot for the P1 owners by the end of this month Jul 21 21:34:20 you mena we'll get them before the end of the month? Jul 21 21:34:22 mickeyl: where is your last snapshot? Jul 21 21:34:23 ;) Jul 21 21:34:35 pavelm: buildhost/snapshots iirc Jul 21 21:34:39 let me check Jul 21 21:35:14 http://buildhost.openmoko.org/snapshots/2007.04/ Jul 21 21:35:17 old, but somewhat working Jul 21 21:36:14 mickey: thanks for pointer... I'm using images from tmp/deploy; they are jul4... Jul 21 21:36:40 ...there must be newer version somewhere :-) Jul 21 21:36:55 you can always build one... Jul 21 21:37:14 mellon: Do you have buildsystem working? Jul 21 21:37:14 mellon__: no, you must always have a "known good" image Jul 21 21:37:26 mellon__: so you can be sure it's your fault when it doesn't work Jul 21 21:37:37 cesarb: true enough Jul 21 21:37:47 pavelm: yeah, I finally got a build this morning. Jul 21 21:38:12 I just installed gutsy gibbon on my macbook so I can do my builds there, though, so I haven't actually tried it yet. Jul 21 21:38:15 cesarb: but how do you know if any image you create is good, without testing it Jul 21 21:38:41 mellon__: I would recommend feisty instead, I've heard some reports here on IRC of strange errors on gutsy IIRC... Jul 21 21:39:06 ScaredyCat: it's not to know if your image is good, it's to know, when it doesn't work, if the problem is with your image or not Jul 21 21:39:11 cesarb: naw, I'd rather be on the bleeding edge. if it fails, I can always boot back into my OSX partition. Jul 21 21:39:25 mellon__: I prefer being on the bleeding edge other ways... Jul 21 21:39:38 * ScaredyCat cuts cesarb Jul 21 21:39:38 * cesarb is trying to build openmoko with EABI to see what breaks Jul 21 21:39:42 cesarb: your choice. it's working pretty nicely for me. Jul 21 21:39:46 I missed that last Jul 21 21:40:02 cesarb: do you have eabi gllin? Jul 21 21:40:19 pavelm: I don't even have the hardware yet, so I'm not worrying about gllin yet Jul 21 21:40:37 pavelm: and I could always enable OABI emul in the kernel and copy over an OABI glibc, and chroot gllin Jul 21 21:40:58 pavelm: in fact, I've been planning on chrooting and non-rooting that daemon since the beginning Jul 21 21:41:27 (closed source should NOT have ful access to the system. give it the serial, gpsd and a clock, and it's enough) Jul 21 21:41:36 cesarb: Yep, that would be _very_ useful. Jul 21 21:41:39 s/ful/full/ Jul 21 21:41:40 cesarb meant: (closed source should NOT have full access to the system. give it the serial, gpsd and a clock, and it's enough) Jul 21 21:41:42 cesarb: I hate it running as root. Jul 21 21:41:58 pavelm: EVERYTHING seems to be running as root, which is evil Jul 21 21:42:15 serial - named pipe to gpsd Jul 21 21:42:16 cesarb: but gllin is more evil than the rest :-) Jul 21 21:42:16 pavelm: I know "yeah, it's a single user machine", but I don't want an accident to clobber the root stuff Jul 21 21:42:23 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[P1_Owners]] [[Wish_List]] [[User:Samon007]] [[Buying_Interest_List]] [[Talk:Neo1973_Battery]] Jul 21 21:42:50 pavelm: actually, it's probably a OS-independent blob together with a thin shim, so it shouldn't be that much evil Jul 21 21:43:12 pavelm: think of is a some sort of "virtualized firmware" for the hammerhead Jul 21 21:43:52 pavelm: as long as you can contain it as good as you could contain it if it were running on an ARM core directly on the hammerhead itself, it shouldn't cause any real problems Jul 21 21:44:24 and shouldn't be any more problematic than what the other two processors on the device are running Jul 21 21:44:41 strange... I try to read smses using libgsmd-tool, and it sometimes reads contacts, instead....? Jul 21 21:45:04 cesarb: well... if it was on separate core, communicating nmea over serial, there would be no security considerations. Jul 21 21:45:06 pavelm: isn't the SMS support on gsmd still sorta broken from what I've heard? Jul 21 21:45:31 cesarb: having it running on main cpu, it can access (for example) the network, and could send your location to CIA or whoever. Jul 21 21:45:50 pavelm: if it's correctly chrooted/firewalled on the main CPU, there should be no security considerations too Jul 21 21:45:55 pavelm: I haven't seen any 'A'GPS functionality. Jul 21 21:46:01 pavelm: Is there any? Jul 21 21:46:02 pavelm: the main problem is if your isolation is faulty Jul 21 21:46:20 cesarb: Yes, and ensuring good isolation is problematic on linux. Jul 21 21:47:03 chroot, as a untrusted user with nothing else in the noexec filesystem, is pretty good. Jul 21 21:47:04 speed: it seems to have some AGPS functionality Jul 21 21:47:05 -g SUPL Server URL or IP address; Jul 21 21:47:05 Ex: '-g 216.15.9.46' Jul 21 21:47:13 pavelm: OS bugs (kernel local root exploits) don't factor, because if (for instance) the gsmd has buggy code, and the gsm module can exploit it, it's the same kind of problem; you should avoid bugs on it after all Jul 21 21:47:16 speed: It can still talk to netwrok :-) Jul 21 21:47:23 pavelm: hmm. Jul 21 21:47:40 SpeedEvil: you also need to make it run as a separate UID, and use netfilter to drop all packets from that UID Jul 21 21:47:44 yeah Jul 21 21:47:51 mellon__ the problem on gutsy is, that you need an older verion of glibc - which is hard to downgrade. - I'd try in a chrooted edgy Jul 21 21:47:57 * cesarb has done the "netfilter filter by uid" trick before Jul 21 21:48:40 kristian-m: feisty should also work fine... it's what I'm using Jul 21 21:49:23 pavelm: BTW, no matter what Linus says, this is THE greatest advantage of a microkernel: isolation Jul 21 21:49:33 cesarb eh, rigth me too, mixed that up Jul 21 21:49:54 kristian-m: it's not hard to mess up with these crazy code names Jul 21 21:50:14 yap Jul 21 21:50:40 kristian-m: the versions are simpler ("7.04" says a lot), but people for some reason like the code names... Jul 21 21:50:58 cesarb: yes, u-kernel would be useful for that. But I'll keep linux for now. Jul 21 21:51:26 kristian-m: seriously? Jul 21 21:51:58 mellon__ yes, if you linke you can download my chroot image Jul 21 21:51:59 speaking of isolation (lack thereof)! Jul 21 21:52:20 is there some easy way to pull contacts from "contacts"? Jul 21 21:52:28 that seems like something to fix rather than accept. Jul 21 21:52:34 * cesarb wonder if a "syscall whitelist" would work... it would be a great way of reducing a lot the attack surface for these chrooted uid-changed firewalled blobs of proprietary closed-source firmware-like modules Jul 21 21:52:50 mellon__ right, have fun then ;-) Jul 21 21:52:57 kristian-m: heh, thanks. Jul 21 21:53:33 mellon__: good luck... I already made the thing compile with dash instead of bash (as long as you use mokomakefile), so I also think the same way ;-) Jul 21 21:53:48 cesarb: ptrace can act as a syscall whitelist, see subterfugue.org Jul 21 21:53:53 cesarb: yeah. I need to apply that patch actually. Jul 21 21:55:37 * cesarb is also, for masochism's sake, using "armv4t" instead of "arm" as the architecture Jul 21 21:55:50 armv4t-openmoko-linux-gnueabi Jul 21 21:58:34 there is nothing like grsec/selinux for arm? Jul 21 21:58:42 Hm... according to slashdot, xen has been merged into 2.6.23... I wonder who will be the first to actually run xen on the neo ;-) Jul 21 21:59:00 ynezz: it wouldn't surprise me if you could run selinux itself on the neo Jul 21 21:59:46 cesarb: that would need xen/arm port, first, I'd say. Jul 21 22:00:48 * cesarb is wondering how many wild tangents will people who receive a neo do Jul 21 22:01:06 maybe xen would make sense if neo would have 4 arm cores or more powerful cpu and more ram Jul 21 22:01:29 cesarb: many many. :') Jul 21 22:01:41 cesarb: I'm planning to turn mine into a LISP machine. Jul 21 22:04:03 mellon__: which implementation? Jul 21 22:04:28 unknown_lamer: otter Jul 21 22:04:32 does anyone here have working openmoko-dialer? Jul 21 22:04:39 (mine segfaults :-() Jul 21 22:04:43 unknown_lamer: it's a new one. Jul 21 22:05:30 mellon__: why not clisp? Jul 21 22:05:49 mellon__: someone got the ffi working on arm a few weeks ago Jul 21 22:06:34 unknown_lamer: cool. if you're talking about cmucl, the problem is that nobody understands the compiler. Jul 21 22:06:56 I mean clisp Jul 21 22:07:40 has anyone ever had this one before: http://nopaste.eof.name/181 <- "cc1: internal compiler error: in add_path, at c-incpath.c:362" Jul 21 22:08:28 unknown_lamer: in general I'm not very fond of common lisp - otter is more scheme-like. but then also most lisp compilers I've seen really do a lousy job of optimizing. Jul 21 22:08:45 so the goal of otter is to actually produce code that's similar in speed to C for the same operations. Jul 21 22:08:45 mellon__: have you ever used sbcl? I've found to be quite fast. Jul 21 22:09:01 unknown_lamer: string handling is painfully slow. Jul 21 22:09:12 how so? Jul 21 22:09:15 unknown_lamer: but yeah, in general it's one of the nicer compilers out there. Jul 21 22:09:20 They map onto uniform byte arrays Jul 21 22:09:31 so the string ops should be as fast as in C Jul 21 22:09:40 unknown_lamer: compile some code to do a lexical search in sbcl and then in C. look at the generated code. get back to me. Jul 21 22:09:41 :') Jul 21 22:09:56 I already did that - unfortunately sbcl doesn't do all that well in comparison. Jul 21 22:10:11 T has a pretty nice compiler, but they don't support i386. Jul 21 22:11:22 CL is nice because you have access to a large set of libraries Jul 21 22:11:36 a branch new lisp ... yech, time to rewrite *all* of those things *again* Jul 21 22:15:25 kristian-m: Maybe you ran out of memory and/or have corrupt memory? Jul 21 22:16:24 kristian-m: ICE should not happen Jul 21 22:16:39 abraxa_ hmm I have to find out later - clearing ccache does not help the error is reproducable - just try using sdl - i disabled sdl now Jul 21 22:16:44 kristian-m: try compiling again, if it fails at the same exact place, your compiler is faulty Jul 21 22:16:57 mickeyl - *pong* Jul 21 22:16:57 cesarb ack :-/ Jul 21 22:16:59 kristian-m: but, if it works or fails somewhere else, it's hardware problems Jul 21 22:17:15 cesarb it hapened again. Jul 21 22:17:19 Hi, mickeyl! Jul 21 22:17:26 kristian-m: at the same place? Jul 21 22:17:31 pavelm - Hi! Jul 21 22:18:54 elrond: any progress with your gps fight? Jul 21 22:20:07 pavelm - Not really. I took a vacation, because it started to get frustrating. I now have a small idea, I'll probably try tomorrow. Jul 21 22:20:23 cesarb yes. after i cleared th ccache-cache. - compiling lib-sdl Jul 21 22:20:42 Elrond: we're still planning to meet next saturday in FFM? Jul 21 22:21:04 kristian-m: so, it's probably a compiler bug (it might be also ICE-in-invalid-code, where both the compiler and the code being compiled are buggy) Jul 21 22:21:39 cesarb I'll try to find out later Jul 21 22:22:04 mickeyl - Ahh, I asked a friend today, if he wants to join in, still no answer. Jul 21 22:22:17 mickeyl - Any idea where to meet / for how long? Jul 21 22:22:29 ..any idea if incoming sms is at least stored on simcard? Jul 21 22:22:41 ...I'd hate to loose messages while experimenting with neo. Jul 21 22:22:55 pavelm - I'd really assume so... but no idea. Jul 21 22:25:18 yay Jul 21 22:25:21 * Psi_ has payment email Jul 21 22:25:45 :/ Jul 21 22:25:54 pse gratz Jul 21 22:25:57 psi Jul 21 22:26:02 ya Jul 21 22:27:24 Elrond: I'd vote for one or two latte macchiato in the "Cantina Mescal, Schweitzerstrasse, 60598 Frankfurt", e.g. from 15:00 to 17:00 or so Jul 21 22:28:28 2xlatte, 5xbeers, 1L vodka and it's almost 3am Jul 21 22:28:35 lol Jul 21 22:28:39 heh Jul 21 22:29:23 ynezz - *LOL* Jul 21 22:29:39 ynezz - I need to take the train back and/or my friend needs to drive back. :-) Jul 21 22:30:10 you know, day after is also day... Jul 21 22:30:46 mickeyl - Sounds good to me. I don't know that location, I hope it's not too smokey and they have some non-coffeine non-alcoholic other drinks? Jul 21 22:31:01 Elrond: for sure (on both points) Jul 21 22:31:10 * mickeyl non-smoker as well Jul 21 22:31:27 Ahh :) Jul 21 22:32:17 Do we have anyone else to invite nearby? I thought, Coredump was in the region? Jul 21 22:32:48 dunno offhand. anyone can come, if he or she wants Jul 21 22:32:49 CoreDump|afk: ? Jul 21 22:33:33 mickeyl, Elrond: I'd be happy to come if you don't mind =) Jul 21 22:33:46 counter Jul 21 22:33:46 (last update 2007-07-21 06:20) http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter : Order https://direct.openmoko.com/ ; Shipping prob. 75% in 4 days 01:26:08 (4.060±2.5 days) (1767;249) Jul 21 22:34:07 abraxa_: cool! Jul 21 22:34:38 mickeyl: What day? Jul 21 22:35:00 mickeyl, abraxa_ - I think, it's just some informal meetup, nothing planned, etc. Don't expect anything. :-) Jul 21 22:35:02 abraxa_: next Saturday, 28th Jul 21 22:35:27 ya, expect it to be just a random gathering of open source mobile phone guys Jul 21 22:35:41 i might have a chance to complete that next snapshot image by then Jul 21 22:35:44 phew Jul 21 22:35:57 Elrond: Oh I know, but I want to meet my mentor anyway and you're a nice fellow to talk to as well ;D Jul 21 22:36:12 pavelm - BTW: Did you see *ninja* on youtube with this gps tool on the neo? Any idea, where that tool is? Jul 21 22:36:48 abraxa_ - :) Jul 21 22:39:20 elrond: no, I do not remember any ninjas. Do you have url? Jul 21 22:39:45 pavelm: http://youtube.com/watch?v=5D6i6vLlhGA Jul 21 22:39:46 pavelm - Huh, let me try, if youtube works on this box. I was at a friend while watching it. Jul 21 22:40:10 Ah, c7 was faster anyway. Jul 21 22:41:19 why is it that people use 'if [ "${VAR}" == "foo" ];'? bash's own "help test" says it's =, not == Jul 21 22:43:37 cesarb - Because they come from C? ;o) Jul 21 22:44:39 cesarb: because bash sucks hard Jul 21 22:45:20 if only bash were good, people would try to write good code with it Jul 21 22:45:51 i don't buy that equation. C sucks a bit, but people are writing ROCKING code with it Jul 21 22:45:54 :D Jul 21 22:46:27 I'm assuming everyone is using gcc-3.4.6 for their qemu builds? /me is doing a "make bootstrap" on an old i386 box, since x86_64->i386(mips-softmmu) yielded an error about a compiler flag: Jul 21 22:46:30 /usr/src/Openmoko/wk/target-arm/op.c:1: error: -mpreferred-stack-boundary=2 is not between 4 and 12 Jul 21 22:46:52 cross-compiling is new to me Jul 21 22:47:18 I'm afraid I never have seen this one. I build my qemu w/ OpenEmbedded Jul 21 22:47:53 I'm just using the new hardware emu, learned about it this morning Jul 21 22:48:41 I'm redoing a "make bootstrap" on gcc-3.4.6 on the host that gave that error, I don't think that's "supposed to happen" Jul 21 22:48:52 new hardware emu? Jul 21 22:49:41 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/OpenMoko_under_QEMU Jul 21 22:51:37 mickeyl - Just asking my friend about next Saturday. Does that "location" have a housenumber in that street? Jul 21 22:52:28 vallor: mips-softmmu? Jul 21 22:52:31 vallor: mips? Jul 21 22:53:31 Elrond: Cantina Mescal Sachsenhausen Schweizer Str.77 Jul 21 22:53:37 cesarb: yes, there was lots of chatter this morning getting the thing running Jul 21 22:53:51 * pavelm just hacked full screen, finger friendly on-screen keyboard... Jul 21 22:54:02 pavelm: yay, make a photo! Jul 21 22:54:05 ...and it appears usable! Jul 21 22:54:12 pavelm: :) :) Jul 21 22:55:04 pavelm: screenshots Jul 21 22:55:04 now Jul 21 22:55:19 okay, installing the rebuild -- this time, I have a prefix and a program-suffix set for gcc Jul 21 22:55:50 gcc rebuild -- but what's puzzling is the --cpu=i386 not working Jul 21 22:59:24 wow, I just pressed alt-space by accident... and katapult (which I'd never heard of before) came up Jul 21 22:59:38 I wonder how many more of these useful random apps kubuntu installs by default Jul 21 23:01:35 okay, on a native i386, it built without an error -- but try --cpu=i386 on an x86_64 machine, and it gives that error about "preferred-stack-boundary" -- ugh Jul 21 23:01:50 hello Jul 21 23:01:54 Hi noon. Jul 21 23:01:59 the qemu-neo1973 I mean Jul 21 23:02:00 mickeyl - My friend, noon. ;-) Jul 21 23:02:04 * mickeyl waves Jul 21 23:02:06 yo noon Jul 21 23:02:11 woo lots of people here Jul 21 23:02:15 hello mickeyl Jul 21 23:02:32 noon - They're all sleeping and/or lurking. ;o) Jul 21 23:02:38 indeed. OpenMoko generates a lot of attention. Imagine what happens when we finally ship software that no longer sucks ;) Jul 21 23:03:08 well, ship neos first :p Jul 21 23:03:13 ynezz: right. Jul 21 23:03:33 mickeyl: the # i normaly hang out have 4 max. 10 users :-) Jul 21 23:03:35 noon: prepared for a nice Latte Macchiato (or anything else) on Saturday? I'm going to bring my Neo and show you the current state of affairs Jul 21 23:03:43 mickeyl: You mean, in about 2019? Jul 21 23:03:50 pavelm: heh. don't be nasty. in 2009 Jul 21 23:03:54 mickeyl: actually, I think that the software simply being not there will have a positive effect on openmoko Jul 21 23:03:56 defently. I love coffee Jul 21 23:04:01 mickeyl: software that does not suck does not exist. Jul 21 23:04:05 noon: excellent! :) Jul 21 23:04:19 mickeyl: think about it: if the neo already came with everything working well, most people would settle for just using it Jul 21 23:04:40 cesarb: i can see what you mean, however it needs to at least be a phone, i.e. working PIM + dialer. everything else is where the experimentation can start. Jul 21 23:04:43 mickeyl: on the other hand, if it didn't work at all, people would not be interested.. the barrier to doing anything with it would be too high Jul 21 23:04:49 nod Jul 21 23:04:55 mickeyl - hehe, noon usually sees "my" neo every second weekend. ;) Jul 21 23:05:09 Elrond: but not with the super secret new UI :D Jul 21 23:05:16 mickeyl: but the way it's right now, with just the kernel working, a very basic "window" manager, and the dialer... and you will get lots of people going into wild insane tangents Jul 21 23:05:19 jep. and we try to get this gps thing working Jul 21 23:05:30 mickeyl: some of these tangents might end up surprising us Jul 21 23:05:31 ah the gps... an insane story Jul 21 23:05:32 mickeyl - *G* You mean the one from guadec? ;o) Jul 21 23:05:37 Elrond: yep Jul 21 23:05:42 heh Jul 21 23:05:48 ;-) Jul 21 23:05:51 * mickeyl grins to romulus_ Jul 21 23:05:54 and to robster Jul 21 23:06:01 ~lart tab completion just because Jul 21 23:06:01 * apt forces tab completion just because to use Outlook Express Jul 21 23:06:01 * mokobot blasts tab completion just because with a huge firehose then strangles tab completion just because with it Jul 21 23:06:10 hmm... mokobot? Jul 21 23:06:22 mickeyl: yes it is. looking at funny hex values and trying to figure out what they mean Jul 21 23:06:27 mickeyl: we missed each other at GUADEC, i was running around trying to keep everything running smoothly. did you enjoy yourself? Jul 21 23:06:48 what is the the "supersecret new ui"? Jul 21 23:07:15 ncurses Jul 21 23:07:16 robster: ya, too bad. hopefully soon somewhere around your offices. guadec: absolutely, it was great. i really enjoyed all the technical talks. organization was -very- well, hats off Jul 21 23:07:37 ncurses? nice. with or without colors? Jul 21 23:08:41 heh Jul 21 23:08:42 not quite Jul 21 23:08:49 a bit more on the 'G' of GUI Jul 21 23:08:52 has the new ui a working gps? Jul 21 23:09:12 but less heavy mickeyl ? Jul 21 23:09:12 no, it's "just" more finger-friendly set of PIM+dialer apps Jul 21 23:09:21 :) Jul 21 23:09:26 mickey: Congrats! Jul 21 23:09:34 pavelm - It's now using card puncher for input. ;o) Jul 21 23:09:34 since we finally found out that there is no compartment for a stylus in the device Jul 21 23:09:36 * mickeyl chuckles Jul 21 23:09:36 who needs a GUI? I only need a terminal. Jul 21 23:09:37 mickeyl: with slightly larger fonts? Jul 21 23:09:41 SpeedEvil: you bet Jul 21 23:09:43 mickey: finger-friendly pim/dialer is really needed. Jul 21 23:10:01 i know. about the end of the month there will be both an announcement and some new commits in svn Jul 21 23:10:02 you'd need a big device for that stylus Jul 21 23:10:09 mickeyl: :-))))) Jul 21 23:10:16 * gcb77 watched the GPS/drop test on youtube... very cool Jul 21 23:10:25 the sonyericsson p910i's attempt at finger-friendly isn't Jul 21 23:10:34 mickey: I'd say that explains why there are no new images on the buildhost. Jul 21 23:10:49 gcarrier - I still wonder, where that gui tool is. Jul 21 23:10:54 Is it too much to ask for a phone that can yell out "ouch" whend dropped? Jul 21 23:11:06 gcb: drop test? Jul 21 23:11:14 pavelm - In the same video. Jul 21 23:11:28 gcb77 - I still wonder, where that gui tool is. Jul 21 23:11:28 my sinclair QL screamed once, when a screw fell out of the underside of the keyboard onto the main PCB Jul 21 23:11:30 gcb: When I dropped mine (on carpet, from pretty low height) it opened itself. Jul 21 23:11:41 elrond: Aha, ok. Jul 21 23:11:53 pavelm: lol, "open" moko Jul 21 23:11:56 elrond: It is trivial to run ssh -X :-) Jul 21 23:12:00 btw: is there an 'easy' way to geht openmoko apps running on my local linuxbox without wasting hours playing with monotone? Jul 21 23:12:15 gcb: I called it "too open moko" :-) Jul 21 23:12:32 pavelm - Yes. But I think, that gui tool gives more info from the chip than gllin. Jul 21 23:12:50 the "on-screen-qwerty-for-fingers" is now in tui cvs... If someone wants to generate screenshots. Jul 21 23:13:10 it is basically 6x6 array of buttons. Miracle is it is actually usable. Jul 21 23:13:18 (actually I should probably go 5x7) Jul 21 23:13:30 ...it is the same mokomenu.py I'm always hacking. Jul 21 23:14:46 Elrond: have you tried the different options of gllin? Jul 21 23:14:52 sorry what is 'tui' cvs ? Jul 21 23:14:58 there are some debuging switches Jul 21 23:15:19 Elrond: gui tool? Jul 21 23:15:20 noon - Only "-low 3" and "-interval 3" Jul 21 23:15:33 nop: sure. you can build all the stuff for x86, no need to download openembedded and cross-compile Jul 21 23:15:37 s/nop/noon/ Jul 21 23:15:38 mickeyl meant: noon: sure. you can build all the stuff for x86, no need to download openembedded and cross-compile Jul 21 23:15:48 gcb77 - From the gps-and-drop-test video, the guy has this gui tool to show gps info, etc. Jul 21 23:16:20 does the gps not send nmea data? or ... ? Jul 21 23:16:26 vallor: no Jul 21 23:16:32 ay carumba Jul 21 23:16:37 vallor: Look on 'Hammerhead' page on the wiki Jul 21 23:16:48 I shall, thanks Jul 21 23:16:50 It's basically a dumb chip - the position is generated in software. Jul 21 23:16:57 This isn't wholly a bad thing. Jul 21 23:16:58 vallor - There is some "gllin", which creates nmea from the gps data. But nmea has less data than the gui tool from the video. Jul 21 23:17:15 Elrond: what was it showing? Jul 21 23:17:46 SpeedEvil - Hmm, signal strength, I think. Or is that in nmea?! Jul 21 23:17:50 yes Jul 21 23:17:51 scaredycat: tui.sf.net, cvs Jul 21 23:17:56 GPGSV IIRC Jul 21 23:18:14 Signal Strength, satelite positions, raw location data Jul 21 23:18:20 you get PRN/alt/az/signal strength quads Jul 21 23:18:29 Elrond: i think there are nmea messages which provide the signal strength Jul 21 23:18:48 elrond: hmm, that's certainly an interesting tool. Looks very proprietary to hammerhead :-( Jul 21 23:18:51 Well - it's not really signal strength - it's some number indicating the goodness of the signal. Jul 21 23:18:57 Elrond: this is a nice nmea reference http://gpsd.berlios.de/NMEA.txt Jul 21 23:19:29 elrond: but "press button to download ephermesis" is certainly interesting option. Jul 21 23:19:59 From reading the GL site Jul 21 23:20:05 they want to charge for this. Jul 21 23:20:09 pavelm: yes, but you need a server where you get this Jul 21 23:20:19 pavelm - Ahh, right. Jul 21 23:20:25 noon: some bits of the server are trivial to implement though. Jul 21 23:20:38 noon: some are _much_ more interesting. Jul 21 23:20:57 SpeedEvil - So that option "download ephemeris" looks very coupled to hammerhead. Jul 21 23:21:03 SpeedEvil: i didn't look at the doenload thing in gllin. Jul 21 23:21:07 I doubt it. Jul 21 23:21:11 im guessing there will be no work done on order processing in the weekend? Jul 21 23:21:15 Because the gllin-nmea is oneway only. No way to talk back to gllin. Jul 21 23:21:19 Elrond: I'd imagine it's a testing thing. Jul 21 23:21:25 a very nice ephermeris for X11 is "Xephem" Jul 21 23:21:35 SpeedEvil - Yeah, exactly. I want it anyway. ;-) Jul 21 23:21:36 ephemeris Jul 21 23:21:36 vallor: utterly unrelated Jul 21 23:21:49 SpeedEvil: sorry, will scroll back Jul 21 23:22:04 Elrond: as for testing, you want it to be up and running ASAP, not cold-starting Jul 21 23:22:14 SpeedEvil: it would be interessint what gllin saves in the nvram Jul 21 23:22:33 vallor: ephemeris is downloaded from the satellites. Jul 21 23:22:41 noon: no NVRAM Jul 21 23:22:57 noon: it'll be storing it in files - there isn't any NVRAM in the hammerhad Jul 21 23:22:59 SpeedEvil - gllin saves two files to "disk": NVRAM{1,2}.DAT Jul 21 23:23:03 oh Jul 21 23:23:43 thats why i assumed it uses nvram to store the data... Jul 21 23:24:08 Possibly in some devices there may be actual physical nvram Jul 21 23:24:14 * mickeyl -> bed Jul 21 23:24:17 g'night guys Jul 21 23:24:21 Night. Jul 21 23:24:29 Good night mickey|zzZZzz Jul 21 23:24:30 bye mickey|zzZZzz Jul 21 23:24:31 good night! Jul 21 23:25:02 noon - It's just files on the normal jffs2. Jul 21 23:25:03 ...actually, 8x7 soft keyboard is still usable by finger. Wow. Jul 21 23:26:02 SpeedEvil: but the download from the satellites take some time. Jul 21 23:26:55 if the receiver has some fresh ephemeris data the fix could be faster arquierd Jul 21 23:27:14 Indeed, which is why you want it for testing. Jul 21 23:27:28 Waiting for a full navigation message would suck. Jul 21 23:27:58 As you want to plug phone in and see if it works, not wait ages for it to download stuff from space. Jul 21 23:29:19 And doing it cold takes ages really. Jul 21 23:30:23 SpeedEvil: is there a way to use the ephemeris data from my sirfIII receiver and put this into the hammerhead? Jul 21 23:30:31 noon: in principle. Jul 21 23:30:49 Not as yet in practice Jul 21 23:31:23 Also you may find [[Category:GPS]] on the wiki of use Jul 21 23:31:34 5x7 softkeyboard produces square buttons.. and seems to work pretty much ok. Jul 21 23:31:36 maybe it can sit on a web server or servers Jul 21 23:32:01 right now I'm using abcde... layout. I wonder if some variation on qwerty would be better? Jul 21 23:32:17 pavelm: eta... Jul 21 23:32:31 (letter frequency based) Jul 21 23:32:37 Dunno Jul 21 23:33:12 * SpeedEvil wonders what a true 'modern' qwerty-like would be. Jul 21 23:33:26 speed: modern qwerty for 5x7 layout... Jul 21 23:33:28 Das Keyboard Jul 21 23:33:39 Engineered to have the minimal likelyhood of confusion for common triglyphs Jul 21 23:34:19 So that typos are wasier to manually find. Jul 21 23:34:27 s/manually/automatically/ Jul 21 23:34:27 SpeedEvil meant: So that typos are wasier to automatically find. Jul 21 23:35:08 pavelm: are you doing this "portrait" or "landscape" (90 degree rotation of key glyphs?) ? Jul 21 23:35:19 when will there be a qwertz keyboard? ;o) Jul 21 23:35:27 vallor: portrait. Jul 21 23:35:54 dvorak for the win! Jul 21 23:36:10 dvorak ftw Jul 21 23:36:12 vallor: xrandr is hard ... hmmm. xrandr just works. Wow. Jul 21 23:36:14 DISPLAY=:0.0 xrandr -o right Jul 21 23:36:17 you still trying to push that cjb_ie Jul 21 23:36:19 ? Jul 21 23:36:25 maybe ;-) Jul 21 23:36:31 :) Jul 21 23:36:34 vallor: hmm, but that needs completely different layout :-) Jul 21 23:37:07 it basically needs to be a decision made by the user. Jul 21 23:37:15 if you go with dvorak you won't have to worry about localising qwerty, qwertz, azerty etc... everyone will complain equally except a few happy geeks :-) Jul 21 23:37:17 pavelm: :) I'd say, give the user the option of any of a number of layouts Jul 21 23:37:37 SpeedEvil: i've looked at [[category:gps]] but there is nothing new. the pakets 10,23,9d are still a mistery Jul 21 23:37:45 vallor: Not in my poor perl script :-) Jul 21 23:37:58 vallor: actually user is free to edit that python script. Jul 21 23:37:59 noon: sorry - I thought you were new to the situation. Jul 21 23:38:01 s/perl/python/ Jul 21 23:39:48 mmm... that seems about as likely to encourage users as stabbing them in the head Jul 21 23:40:17 noon - 10 has some ideas now. Jul 21 23:40:49 Elrond: woo. speak up Jul 21 23:41:23 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[OpenMoko_under_QEMU]] [[OpenMoko_Local_Groups:_Canberra]] [[P1_Owners]] Jul 21 23:41:27 pavelm: if you wanted to be slick, you could base the layouts on standard keyboard locales Jul 21 23:41:32 noon - Some russian guy contacted ph5 and me ;o) Jul 21 23:41:41 really, it should be configurable, with a sensible default perhaps dependent on language Jul 21 23:41:46 or whatever it's called when you select a language in Linux Jul 21 23:41:48 vallor: damn, you got there first. Jul 21 23:41:56 noon - with some idea on 10. I'm trying to write some data-gatherer to see, if there is anything. Jul 21 23:42:05 cjb_ie: ;P Jul 21 23:42:21 and you expressed it better too. sigh. Jul 21 23:43:09 Elrond: so next saturday a new hacking session? Jul 21 23:43:37 noon - Well, a mickeyl-meetup session ;) Jul 21 23:44:00 Neo's gps does not work indoors, at least not the one in my neo. Jul 21 23:44:02 cjb_ie: I did? dang, even a blind squirrel finds a nut now and then (and in this case, I'm the nut...) Jul 21 23:44:15 oh where oh where is my neo ;0 Jul 21 23:46:46 Elrond: even if you get the fix outside? Jul 21 23:47:37 noon - Even then it looses it very quickly. Jul 21 23:48:27 okey. its time for the bed. Jul 21 23:48:28 bye Jul 21 23:49:00 well, ipsec worked for a couple brief minutes Jul 21 23:52:19 elrond: my neo works indoors... somehow. i guess it depends how deep indoors you are. Jul 21 23:52:25 * pavelm is good at scaring users. Jul 21 23:52:44 i was digging across global locate's site last night and they indicated a few basic modes of operation: autonomous (regular gps), enhanced autonomous (basically regular gps, with GL's proprietary long term ephemeris model), apgs mobile-assist (base station calculates position) and agps mobile-based (handset computes position with some hints from the base station). see http://www.globallocate.com/SEMICONDUCTORS/SEMI_LIBRARY_Frameset. Jul 21 23:52:49 pavelm - Well, my roof is metalic ;o) Jul 21 23:53:30 ckuethe: look at wikipedia: A-GPS Jul 21 23:53:38 yes, i've seen that Jul 21 23:53:47 * SpeedEvil rewrote it recently. Jul 21 23:54:28 Enhanced autonomous would be fairly easy to do. Jul 21 23:54:52 Based on precise satellite orbits, and a better orbital/satellite model. Jul 21 23:55:11 sure. regular gps, but with a more complicated but better orbital model Jul 21 23:55:26 The orbits in the almanac are not very accurate AIUI. Jul 21 23:55:32 the almanac is crap Jul 21 23:55:51 the ephemeris is what you need to get a meaningful position Jul 21 23:55:56 err Jul 21 23:56:10 i don't call 100m error a meaningful position Jul 21 23:56:21 but then again, maybe i'm just too picky Jul 21 23:56:27 I basically mean the ephemiris is not as accurate as it might be. Jul 21 23:56:34 that too Jul 21 23:56:48 that is why there is a market for ultra-precise orbits Jul 21 23:57:05 but they currently require postprocessing so they're not really available in real-time Jul 21 23:58:02 ckuethe - BTW: Do you know a nice online website which shows a list of "probably visible" Sats for a given sat/lon? Jul 21 23:58:19 http://www.ngs.noaa.gov/GPS/GPS.html <- precise orbits Jul 21 23:58:22 Elrond: heavans-abocve.com Jul 21 23:58:34 Elrond: I don't think they are geostationary Jul 21 23:58:34 hevans-above.com Jul 21 23:58:37 err Jul 21 23:58:41 in fact, I know they aren't Jul 21 23:58:42 http://heavens-above.com/ Jul 21 23:58:46 however you spell that word Jul 21 23:58:57 they are in 12 hour orbits. Jul 21 23:59:01 (more or less) Jul 21 23:59:06 Hmm, heavens-above.com... huh, I thought, I checked that. Jul 21 23:59:15 they're not geostationary, but he wants a site to tell him "if i look up right now, what will i see" Jul 21 23:59:16 hmm... so my attempt at Jul 21 23:59:22 qwerty Jul 21 23:59:24 uiop Jul 21 23:59:29 heavens above will work. Jul 21 23:59:32 hopefully that includes "you will see the following gps satellites here here and here" Jul 21 23:59:32 AIUI. Jul 21 23:59:37 Or download xpehem. Jul 21 23:59:43 xephem. Jul 22 00:00:21 layout (each qwety row split into two rows) did not work too well :-( Jul 22 00:00:50 I thihk, I tried http://heavens-above.com/ and did not get all GPS sats. Jul 22 00:01:10 I think you have to enter the right search-terms. Jul 22 00:01:28 http://igscb.jpl.nasa.gov/components/prods.html <--- ultra-rapid orbits with 5cm precision Jul 22 00:01:33 pavelm: have you tried left of keyboard above, right beloww? not interleaving. Jul 22 00:02:03 hand if you are doing surveys, i suppose Jul 22 00:02:46 speed: Hmm... will try that. Jul 22 00:02:50 I thought about Jul 22 00:02:51 * SpeedEvil wonders when the accuracy of a predicted '5cm' orbit gets worse than the broadcast accuracy Jul 22 00:02:55 qetuo Jul 22 00:02:59 wryip Jul 22 00:03:05 adgjl Jul 22 00:03:06 Hmm Jul 22 00:03:11 sfhk; Jul 22 00:03:18 layout, but yours is probably less evil. Jul 22 00:03:24 is it possible to get coordinates from google maps? Jul 22 00:03:25 I think that would be too confusing Jul 22 00:03:29 Vegar: yes Jul 22 00:03:38 Vegar: link this page - up at the top Jul 22 00:03:45 now, inspect hte URL Jul 22 00:03:51 you will find two numerics Jul 22 00:04:05 ll=56.033;38.4 or something Jul 22 00:04:08 it's those Jul 22 00:04:23 sll and sspn Jul 22 00:04:47 I think, ll, not sll. Jul 22 00:05:06 nope, not there Jul 22 00:07:53 gps would be so much simpler if everyone had good clocks Jul 22 00:08:26 speed: Hmm... So I tried that layout. It somehow works. Jul 22 00:08:28 * SpeedEvil passes ckuethe a Marine Chronometer. Jul 22 00:08:33 pavelm :) Jul 22 00:08:38 i guess that's one of the benefits of AGPS inside a cellphone... time can be maintained on the handset by the network Jul 22 00:08:41 ...but by now I'm not sure which one is the best. Jul 22 00:09:18 depending on my mood i alternate between my wwv radio watch and my purely mechanical watch Jul 22 00:09:27 ckuethe: It's not that onorous. Jul 22 00:10:16 i didn't say it was onerous, just that the network already steers the handset's clock to some semblance of accuracy and stability... which aids in gps signal tracking Jul 22 00:10:29 ckuethe: you have to power up the GPS every 5 min for 1s to keep it able to position accurately in 1s. Jul 22 00:10:40 SpeedEvil - Hmm, I'll take a nice chronometer too ;-) Jul 22 00:10:53 ... as long, as it works happily in large magnetic fields. ;-) Jul 22 00:10:54 I was thinking of the original one. Jul 22 00:11:07 A yard square, in a beautiful wooden box. Jul 22 00:13:40 * pavelm prefers cheap digital wrist watches, thank you. Jul 22 00:13:52 (I guess it is still more precise than Marine Chronometer?) Jul 22 00:13:59 (and certainly more practical :-) Jul 22 00:14:03 Certainly. Jul 22 00:14:11 (but I guess Marine Chronometer is just beatiful :-) Jul 22 00:14:39 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Longitude_prize Jul 22 00:14:47 Though you probably know it. Jul 22 00:15:02 yep, I heard about it before. Jul 22 00:15:12 anyway, good night! Jul 22 00:16:13 night Jul 22 00:16:49 Good night, pavelm Jul 22 00:18:15 Hey - I didn't realise that in the process of inventing the clock, Harrison also invented the caged roller bearing. Jul 22 00:34:30 hmpf. The one thing in the wooden box by some german company, I was remembering, just turned out to only be a compass. Jul 22 00:36:57 ( http://shop.dekotrend48.de/images/0176.JPG ) Jul 22 00:50:45 Hallelujah! Jul 22 00:52:09 Well, I for one am most happy that mokobot has seen the light. Jul 22 00:52:25 Will it begin to sing now? Jul 22 01:14:24 Bought an n770 for prototyping. On it now Jul 22 01:23:04 I'm starting to feel left out. Why don't I get to pay for my order? Jul 22 01:23:34 ~p1 Jul 22 01:23:35 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/P1_Owners Jul 22 01:26:21 How do I send a ctrl-c in the terminal window? Jul 22 01:35:02 * mokobot mugs Jason1 for his neo and gives it to ScaredyCat Jul 22 01:36:06 " mugs Jason1 for his neo and gives it to ScaredyCat" hehe Apparently this is a dangerous part of town Jul 22 01:38:30 looks like they may have skipped my order :( Jul 22 01:41:43 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Category:Development_Board]] [[QT2410]] [[MokoMakefile]] [[OpenMoko_Local_Groups:_Trondheim]] [[OpenMoko_Local_Groups]] [[OpenMoko_Local_Groups:_Norway]] [[P1_Owners]] Jul 22 01:42:21 so which bluetooth profiles does the gta02 support? is that a function or hardware, or software? Jul 22 01:54:45 sagacis: still no word? Jul 22 02:12:51 heh opensource Tux icecream http://www.flickr.com/photos/plasticpixel/86478035/in/set-72057594048201675/ Jul 22 02:14:54 made out of real penguins? Jul 22 02:16:37 jaebird: Still no word Jul 22 02:22:15 Linux_Galore: I used to live in that area. Never saw that shop however Jul 22 02:30:15 gah, so close to the perfect ipsec setup, and yet, so far away **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sun Jul 22 02:59:58 2007