**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Jul 28 02:59:56 2007 Jul 28 02:59:58 i'm using lates dev image Jul 28 03:00:25 Writchie: You built yourself, or from buildhost? Jul 28 03:00:30 SpeedEvil: the color scheme creates the illusion that it is thinner than it is. Jul 28 03:01:05 ChooseOpen: I downloaded for first attempt. I'll try later with the images I built. Jul 28 03:01:45 The form factor fits well, for one handed operation, at least in my hands. Jul 28 03:01:57 certainly it's no candy bar phone Jul 28 03:02:38 I expect it stay in my pocket anyphone for normal telephony use cases. Jul 28 03:03:04 i prefer to use my BT implants Jul 28 03:03:29 in china they cost less than lasik Jul 28 03:03:42 ;) Jul 28 03:05:09 seriously, the phone should ship with one of those credit card magnifiers at least for us geezers Jul 28 03:05:34 friend of mine suggested adding metal "teeth" to the "loop" at the bottom... Jul 28 03:05:40 make it useful - it can be a bottle opener Jul 28 03:06:00 Qwell: love it Jul 28 03:06:20 ChooseOpen: needless to say, I'm modding mine if/when I get it Jul 28 03:06:21 much rather have a nav pad than a hole Jul 28 03:06:36 could really use a jog dial Jul 28 03:06:39 add a nub like on thinkpads Jul 28 03:06:47 Writchie: how big is the Neo compared to a P800? Jul 28 03:06:58 trackpoint just a couple of bucks including patent license Jul 28 03:07:27 NEO is a little wider but a bit thinner Jul 28 03:07:31 compared to p800 Jul 28 03:07:39 Acceptable, I guess. Jul 28 03:07:41 :) Jul 28 03:08:12 jog dials actually work very well for one handed operation. Jul 28 03:08:41 jog dial? Jul 28 03:08:42 I'll probably have to get one as soon as it can call people and do GPRS, in one form or another. Jul 28 03:09:02 jog dial is a wheel that also clicks Jul 28 03:09:13 convenient up/down/select Jul 28 03:09:13 Jog dials work well, but I imagine they take quite a lot of space inside the device. Jul 28 03:09:41 takes a bit of space for the wheel. Jul 28 03:09:50 there are a bunch of other styles. Jul 28 03:10:15 yes, you can do it all with the touch but its not as fast for simple functions. Jul 28 03:10:31 90% are calls and sms for most people. Jul 28 03:10:59 jog dial may have patent problems but there are other equivalents Jul 28 03:12:34 dialing keys on the screen works very well - much more reliable than p800 Jul 28 03:13:07 a real user is going to need screen protectors. Jul 28 03:14:17 i have an idea, bt keyboard plus magnifier in a credit card Jul 28 03:15:08 magnifier? Jul 28 03:15:31 to read system font Jul 28 03:21:28 Hey, has anyone gotten any songs playing on your neo? Jul 28 03:21:37 I played an MP3 Jul 28 03:21:45 ooooh, how? Jul 28 03:22:02 vERY EASY: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973_Audio_Subsystem Jul 28 03:22:08 sweet, thanks Jul 28 03:22:28 see the phase0 quickstart section Jul 28 03:22:29 urgh, alsa! Jul 28 03:22:34 alsa for the lose :( Jul 28 03:24:04 doc|home: heh, yep alsa Jul 28 03:25:00 whoops, first off, i need to get the song onto my neo, how do i do that? Jul 28 03:25:48 zaery: I used scp. or you can use wget if you have inet acces working Jul 28 03:25:54 ChooseOpen: did you get stereo sound out? Jul 28 03:26:20 bmidgley: I told you the other night (Jason1), that I think it was mono... Jul 28 03:26:38 ah ok Jul 28 03:26:56 you made it seem like there were more neos out there Jul 28 03:27:03 hehe, that stereo vs mono is really bothering you, eh? hehe Jul 28 03:27:25 I'm worried something isn't wired right Jul 28 03:27:30 did you get your sampling track made? Jul 28 03:27:41 I looked at the codec diagram and couldn't figure out how to get mono Jul 28 03:28:10 I have an mp3 with voices in the left and instruments in the right but i can't share it :( Jul 28 03:28:39 did you get the link I sent you the other night? Jul 28 03:29:57 doc|home it's kernel alsa not the userspace junk Jul 28 03:30:30 hmmm, i dont think scp worked, i have the "Elements Song.mp3" on my desktop and i tried "zaery@zaery-laptop:~/Desktop$ scp Elements\ Song.mp3 192.168.0.202" Jul 28 03:30:46 all that happened is that i get another prompt Jul 28 03:30:47 192.168.0.202:. Jul 28 03:30:53 aah Jul 28 03:31:06 thanks Jul 28 03:31:17 or actually root@192.168.0.202:. Jul 28 03:31:26 even better Jul 28 03:34:02 Listening to an MP# right now....ahh music to my ears :) Jul 28 03:36:27 yay! anyone heard the tom lehr elements song? Jul 28 03:36:48 zaery: that probably created a file called 192.... on your hard disk. Jul 28 03:37:18 weird Jul 28 03:38:22 zaery: that's awesome Jul 28 03:38:38 you should also hear "plagiarize" Jul 28 03:38:51 never heard it Jul 28 03:39:05 bmidgley: better, and it'll be standard hardware so that should help a lot. Jul 28 03:39:22 i think ill get chocolate rain on my neo Jul 28 03:48:22 zaery: yeah, the elements song is cool Jul 28 03:55:52 Figured out how to listen to streaming radion on the Neo... Jul 28 03:55:59 radion=radio Jul 28 03:56:18 wget -O - http://radioparadise.steadyhost.com:8050 | madplay - Jul 28 03:57:01 This thing is getting more useful by the minute :) Jul 28 03:58:24 That's cool Jul 28 03:59:36 some nokia batteries work in the neo.... Jul 28 04:00:03 my old N91 battery works in my neo Jul 28 04:00:37 and the nokia ones say BL-5C on them Jul 28 04:03:45 how do i play the music on only the headphones Jul 28 04:05:07 zaery: Not sure yet. I am messing with that now... Jul 28 04:05:17 cool, tell me when you get it Jul 28 04:05:41 zaery: I filed a bug because the speaker stayed on when using headphones Jul 28 04:05:55 it's all in the alsa state file if you can figure it out Jul 28 04:06:15 ChooseOpen, audio hw works alright? Jul 28 04:06:23 drivers I should say Jul 28 04:06:28 unfortunately the alsa mixer control names don't match the names in the wolfson spec Jul 28 04:06:40 codyl: The only thing I have not sen work is the jack mic. Jul 28 04:06:45 sen=seen Jul 28 04:06:52 ah Jul 28 04:06:58 headphones are good enough Jul 28 04:07:08 besides bluetooth headset is the way to go Jul 28 04:07:41 bmidgley: did you notice that the "playback" stereo/left/right/mono switch affects the output? Jul 28 04:08:00 ? Jul 28 04:08:13 bmidgley: in alsamixer.. Jul 28 04:08:42 i didn't play much with alsamixer... soooo many controls... Jul 28 04:09:16 but that would be quicker than trial & error rebuilding a state file Jul 28 04:09:33 check it out. there is some stereo/mono settings that do actually cut audio to the left or right sides... Jul 28 04:10:13 I left my neo unplugged and now it won't turn on until it's charged for a while :( Jul 28 04:10:26 Also un-muting an option called "Left Mix" will cut hte left audio channel.... Jul 28 04:10:40 hm, rev A problems... Jul 28 04:10:42 bmidgley: I did htat last night. Thought I lost her... Jul 28 04:11:19 I suspect when the battery is totally dead it only draws 100mA Jul 28 04:11:41 could be why it takes so long to work again Jul 28 04:12:41 I want to override the "smarts" that prevent a 500mA draw! Jul 28 04:13:37 how do i get my bluetooth headset connected to my neo? Jul 28 04:14:57 zaery: In alsamixer, the switch "Amp Spk" will reduce ext speaker volume significantly if oyu mute it.... Not all the way off, but closer :) Jul 28 04:15:14 alright Jul 28 04:16:02 (script) openmoko-community: Sean Moss-Pultz Re: What happened to the order? Jul 28 04:19:19 Has anyone got GPRS working? Jul 28 04:19:42 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Neo1973_Audio_Subsystem]] [[OpenMoko_Local_Groups:_NYC_Metro]] [[OpenMoko_Local_Groups:_North_Texas]] [[P1_Owners]] Jul 28 04:19:54 ChooseOpen: i found the Amp Spk 3D but not the reg. Amp Spk Jul 28 04:20:14 zaery: standby lemme look again Jul 28 04:20:19 kk Jul 28 04:21:12 ChooseOpen: you have gsm voice working? Jul 28 04:21:13 zaery: thats the right one. mine was truncated Jul 28 04:21:27 bmidgley: yeah, on a good day Jul 28 04:21:37 which carrier/country? Jul 28 04:22:00 bmidgley: didnt do anything special really, just loaded the alternate state file so hte audio would work Jul 28 04:22:09 Tmobile/USA Jul 28 04:22:40 the dialer didn't switch the audio for you?? hmm Jul 28 04:22:54 the gprs init string is really ugly... i used to use tmobile Jul 28 04:23:22 down at the bottom of http://www.xmission.com/~bmidgley/mobile/ Jul 28 04:23:38 ChooseOpen: Amp Apk 3D is just a mute/unmute Jul 28 04:23:46 Apk=Spk Jul 28 04:23:49 bmidgley: It didnt seem to. I manually switched to headset earlier, and it wouldnt work. then I switched to handset and it started working again Jul 28 04:24:56 zaery: YEah, on un-mute, my ext speaker audio is much quieter. go figure... Jul 28 04:25:12 hmmm, on unmute, mines much louder Jul 28 04:25:22 ChooseOpen: do you recognize the init string AT+cgdcont=1,"IP","internet2.voicestream.com" Jul 28 04:25:31 have you had to set up gprs from linux before? Jul 28 04:25:52 bmidgley: nope. Jul 28 04:26:14 that's what worked about 2 yrs ago... Jul 28 04:26:29 then ATD*99# to start the connection Jul 28 04:26:47 bmidgley: have you tried on OM yet? Jul 28 04:27:02 ChooseOpen: I no longer have a tmobile sim Jul 28 04:27:09 ahhh Jul 28 04:27:28 Im going to bookmark that. I dont have the patience to get into it tonight... Jul 28 04:27:48 I'll try to borrow a tmobile sim (won't bother my att friends :) Jul 28 04:29:51 so, will OpenMoko be supporting SyncML/OMA? Jul 28 04:30:11 orospakr: I sure it will, someday :) Jul 28 04:30:17 heh. Jul 28 04:30:58 I wonder if the user db on the phone is compatible with anything else Jul 28 04:56:20 ChooseOpen: http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS7056478804.html Jul 28 05:06:50 hello y'all Jul 28 05:07:02 anyone able to get the sound working? Jul 28 05:07:02 dietsunkis1: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (and also SH1_FAQ, Neo1973, Developer_preview and Neo1973_Hardware#GTA01Bv4 pages) (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) Jul 28 05:07:24 dietsunkis1: yeo Jul 28 05:07:27 yep Jul 28 05:07:38 you? Jul 28 05:08:23 listening to streaming radio right now. Jul 28 05:10:37 how did you do it? Jul 28 05:10:48 I wasn't able to get it working Jul 28 05:10:59 Very Easy: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973_Audio_Subsystem#Phase0_Quick_Start Jul 28 05:13:42 dietsunkis1: Aside from audio, how has things been going? Jul 28 05:13:53 ok, any sound files in the system I can use for testing? Jul 28 05:14:09 nah, I used scp to copy one to /mnt/card Jul 28 05:14:18 to be honest I haven't had much chance to hack on it, it only came yesterday and i've been busy with work Jul 28 05:14:36 you were supposed to take a sick day :) Jul 28 05:14:46 I wish :) Jul 28 05:14:55 my boss would put a contract out on me Jul 28 05:15:01 hehe Jul 28 05:15:40 though i've been pretty bumped about the whole 3g att card not working thing Jul 28 05:16:11 dietsunkis1: yeah. Thats sucks any official word yet if it will be able to be fixed in software? Jul 28 05:16:45 nothing yet afaik Jul 28 05:17:25 I have 3 year old tmobile SIM. Does Tmobile use the 3G SIMs as well these days? Jul 28 05:17:46 so far, I have only heard complaints about ATT Jul 28 05:18:09 did it work for you? Jul 28 05:18:14 Yep Jul 28 05:18:54 call quality ok? Jul 28 05:19:25 hard to tell b/c I was holding both phones. Jul 28 05:19:46 the GUI likes to crash if oyu look at it the wrong way. Jul 28 05:19:53 the command line works well though Jul 28 05:22:35 hello moko nuts Jul 28 05:22:45 Hey LG Jul 28 05:24:04 Wonder how Hungarian police torture Microserfs.....if you dont answer me we will make you open an Office 2007 doc file in Openoffice and make you reformat it Jul 28 05:24:36 hehe Jul 28 05:24:47 Saw they raided MS offices hehe Jul 28 05:25:09 about time though Jul 28 05:25:44 the same rubbish is happening here in Australia ie "loyalty schemes" Jul 28 05:25:59 Linux_Galore: crazy. Jul 28 05:26:16 if you dont sell "only" Microsoft products with will "loyaly screw you over" Jul 28 05:27:01 oops Jul 28 05:27:22 if you must only sell Microsoft products or we will "loyaly screw you over" Jul 28 05:27:26 aaah Jul 28 05:27:57 just woke up from a midday nap Jul 28 05:27:59 hehe. thats right Jul 28 05:28:11 Linux_Galore: im fixing to go to bed Jul 28 05:28:18 1 am here Jul 28 05:28:27 3:28pm here Jul 28 05:28:56 the missus just got me a new leather executive chair Jul 28 05:29:07 sweet Jul 28 05:29:10 hmmmm cooooow Jul 28 05:29:39 well the back broke on my old one Jul 28 05:29:53 guess that means that you sit on your ass too much ;) Jul 28 05:30:33 not really Im in technical marketing so some days I have little if any chance to sit down Jul 28 05:30:41 hehe Jul 28 05:30:58 when you getting your Neo? Jul 28 05:31:03 but I must have me "high back yuppie chair" Jul 28 05:31:08 sept Jul 28 05:31:15 2007? Jul 28 05:31:18 hehe Jul 28 05:31:18 yes Jul 28 05:31:28 well I said Jan 2008 originally Jul 28 05:32:08 Im not in a big rush I have enough geeky gadgets to play with Jul 28 05:32:19 yeah. Jul 28 05:32:23 me too Jul 28 05:32:50 takes me 3 minutes to load up with all by beeping twiddling gadgets on the way out the door Jul 28 05:32:59 s/by/my/ Jul 28 05:33:00 Linux_Galore meant: takes me 3 minutes to load up with all my beeping twiddling gadgets on the way out the door Jul 28 05:33:01 hehe Jul 28 05:34:14 ipod/zaurus/nokia n95/blackberry phone/plantronics bluetooth headset Jul 28 05:34:24 damn Jul 28 05:34:39 when something goes beep it takes me 15 seconds to figure out what it is Jul 28 05:35:17 the crackberry is my company phones the rest is mine Jul 28 05:35:22 phone* Jul 28 05:35:56 not me, I carry one phone. thats it. Son to be the Neo (once its stable) Jul 28 05:36:07 s/Son/Soon. Jul 28 05:36:15 it's going to be tough to leave n95 behind for neo Jul 28 05:36:32 yeah, Im hoping the neo in the long term can replace all that crap Jul 28 05:37:01 hsdpa and gps are so nice Jul 28 05:37:06 yeah, the n95 has putty and a 5MP camera so a neo is a step down for me Jul 28 05:38:01 to be honest I want something like the N800 with the neo built in Jul 28 05:38:57 Im thinking of getting a neo gta02 pairing it (wifi) with a N800 Jul 28 05:39:00 Linux_Galore: I am excited to see what FIC has planned for future devices Jul 28 05:39:27 ChooseOpen: yeah no 3G is a bummer Jul 28 05:39:37 not that I use it anyway Jul 28 05:39:56 work/home have a wifi setup Jul 28 05:40:04 /usr/bin/ld: C.o: Relocations in generic ELF (EM: 40) C.o: could not read symbols: File in wrong format Jul 28 05:40:32 how will the NEO get maps though ? Jul 28 05:40:32 I travel alot. 3g would be really handy. DOnt use it today, but would on the Neo if I could Jul 28 05:40:37 i have got problems building perl with mokomakefile Jul 28 05:41:07 Linux_Galore: gprs? Jul 28 05:41:13 yay, order has shipped Jul 28 05:41:14 with the N95 I just download the maps Jul 28 05:41:21 ChooseOpen: yeah Jul 28 05:41:22 Psi_: Cngrats! Jul 28 05:41:45 Linux_Galore: just have to do it really slowly :) Jul 28 05:41:58 Psi_: Est delivery? Jul 28 05:42:00 i also got a "according to our records your request has been resolved" email for some reason Jul 28 05:42:13 Psi_: THey close your RT ticket once they ship Jul 28 05:42:17 ah Jul 28 05:42:39 * Psi_ logs into tracking system Jul 28 05:42:53 ChooseOpen: what Im thinking is downloading the local area maps via wifi then just using gps in conjunction with it, Im wondering what maps the NEO can use Jul 28 05:43:28 Linux_Galore: people are loking closely at google maps. Also talk about OSM, but their data is very sparse Jul 28 05:44:06 Anybody know how we are supposed to get ahold of that elusive GPS binary? Jul 28 05:44:15 ChooseOpen, no eta given as far as i can see Jul 28 05:44:16 ChooseOpen: yeah, caching the google maps data may work Jul 28 05:44:29 join the club at http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/P1_Owners Jul 28 05:45:20 Linux_Galore: THere was long long discussion on the Community Forum a while back... Jul 28 05:45:28 Linux_Galore: I didnt follow it very closely Jul 28 05:45:39 * Psi_ updates P1_Owners Jul 28 05:46:35 Linux_Galore: I hope someone puts together a resonable OSM compatible GPS client. I would love to contribute route data to them. Jul 28 05:46:46 s/resonable/reasonable/ Jul 28 05:46:47 ChooseOpen meant: Linux_Galore: I hope someone puts together a reasonable OSM compatible GPS client. I would love to contribute route data to them. Jul 28 05:47:32 ChooseOpen: there is a open source mapping project, I saw an arrticle last year about it Jul 28 05:47:55 Linux_Galore: OSM = Open Street Map. THat is the only one I know of... Jul 28 05:48:09 ChooseOpen: is that the engish one? Jul 28 05:48:12 ie UK Jul 28 05:48:34 Definately not much data in my area (Chicago) I think they have much more in the UK... Jul 28 05:49:04 ChooseOpen: should setup a LUG type thing for that maps project Jul 28 05:49:17 apt: if gpsd is installed then there should be a copy of cgpxlogger or gpxlogger installed Jul 28 05:49:18 ckuethe: what are you talking about? Jul 28 05:49:43 stupid bot. Jul 28 05:49:46 hehe Jul 28 05:49:48 heh Jul 28 05:50:18 in the US, there's always the TIGER dataset ... it has the occasional error but its coverage is good. Jul 28 05:50:29 in canada, there is geobase Jul 28 05:50:53 roadnav is supposed to get support for that... Jul 28 05:51:10 I have played with the TIGER data a little... It all gets so complicated LOL Jul 28 05:51:31 geobase is pretty nice ... they bothered to map the median in the middle of the road outside my place Jul 28 05:56:13 g/n all Jul 28 06:03:31 where can i download pre built openmoko images ? Jul 28 06:04:31 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/SH1 Jul 28 06:18:42 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[P1_Owners]] [[OpenMoko_Local_groups:_Boston]] [[Flashing_openmoko]] [[Talk:Flashing_openmoko]] [[Introduction]] Jul 28 06:24:34 hi Jul 28 06:24:56 hi @ all Jul 28 06:27:42 lo Jul 28 06:28:10 " Your package has experienced an exception." Jul 28 06:28:28 looks like it drowned in Kentucky Jul 28 07:31:43 i guess there is bug in mokomakefile Jul 28 07:32:40 building perl it cant link C.o because it is in wrong format Jul 28 07:34:00 dando which bug? Jul 28 07:34:20 hmmm Jul 28 07:34:34 i can show the output Jul 28 07:34:46 http://pastebin.ca/636816 Jul 28 07:35:10 maybe C.o isn't compiled for arm architecture Jul 28 07:35:50 thats my theory Jul 28 07:36:40 eh,. what i find somehow disturbing are the LANG and LC warnings Jul 28 07:37:00 i just built perl yesterday so that should be no problem with mokomakefile Jul 28 07:37:14 is your /bin/sh linked to dash? Jul 28 07:37:21 has anyone worked with runscript with minicom? i am trying to use minicom to send a series of AT commands and get results, but, somehow runscript isn't powerful enough Jul 28 07:37:28 no bash Jul 28 07:38:18 ok.. so thats at least not this problem.. Jul 28 07:38:25 which distro is it? Jul 28 07:38:34 Ubuntu Jul 28 07:38:44 hm.. same here Jul 28 07:38:46 wait let me double check Jul 28 07:39:23 yes linked to bash Jul 28 07:40:08 C.o: could not read symbols: File in wrong format <--- thats strange Jul 28 07:41:47 i cant find this file Jul 28 07:42:28 hi Jul 28 07:42:46 tried a make clean-package-perl; make build-package-perl ? Jul 28 07:42:59 found it Jul 28 07:43:07 hmm, i see you use ccache Jul 28 07:43:18 causes troubles sometimes Jul 28 07:43:34 did an ---> file C.o <---- Jul 28 07:43:46 C.o: ELF 32-bit LSB relocatable, ARM, version 1, not stripped Jul 28 07:44:12 no i didnt try that Jul 28 07:44:44 arghl Jul 28 07:47:14 i'm not used to bitbake ! Jul 28 07:49:35 me neither.. but i cope Jul 28 07:50:07 :) Jul 28 07:50:16 looks good Jul 28 07:50:28 it is doing something Jul 28 07:51:15 moin Jul 28 07:51:25 moin Jul 28 07:51:52 yes! Jul 28 07:54:45 thx @ roh Jul 28 07:55:02 help to clean-package Jul 28 07:55:37 my neo seems to be teleporting Jul 28 07:55:54 from youre hand to my hand? Jul 28 07:56:04 how many have received the bought neo? Jul 28 07:56:17 Yes Jul 28 07:56:26 LOUISVILLE, Jul 28 07:56:26 KY, US 07/28/2007 3:11 A.M. EXPORT SCAN Jul 28 07:56:26 APELDOORN, Jul 28 07:56:26 NL 07/28/2007 8:22 A.M. PACKAGE DATA PROCESSED BY BROKERAGE. WAITING FOR CLEARANCE Jul 28 07:56:26 LOUISVILLE, Jul 28 07:56:27 KY, US 07/28/2007 2:21 A.M. ARRIVAL SCAN Jul 28 07:57:08 maybe it wants to be in Kentucky Jul 28 07:58:49 it can travel back trough time 8:22 am to 3:11 AM Jul 28 07:59:34 2:21 Jul 28 07:59:57 local times though Jul 28 08:00:10 ? Jul 28 08:00:18 or is it just magical Jul 28 08:01:13 Its a bird, its a plain, it's openmoko Jul 28 08:04:04 tux was on the front over of a womans magazine at the local paper shop -> http://www.magshop.com.au/Popup_Image.htm?ImageID=3321 Jul 28 08:04:15 s/over/cover/ Jul 28 08:04:15 Linux_Galore meant: tux was on the front cover of a womans magazine at the local paper shop -> http://www.magshop.com.au/Popup_Image.htm?ImageID=3321 Jul 28 08:04:17 what does moko stand for ? mobil communication ? In german you write it with a k kommunikation. Jul 28 08:05:19 Linux_Galore: crazy world ! Jul 28 08:05:42 yeahhhh, tux cake howto Jul 28 08:05:59 mmmm cake Jul 28 08:06:16 Ive got some overn fries a cookin Jul 28 08:06:21 oven* Jul 28 08:06:26 66 best selling recipes Jul 28 08:06:33 well, it's only 9am here.. Jul 28 08:06:40 bake youre own kernel Jul 28 08:06:58 make && kernel && cake Jul 28 08:07:32 hello world :) Jul 28 08:07:32 ./configure --with-dried-fruit Jul 28 08:07:47 make double chocloate Jul 28 08:07:53 aha Jul 28 08:08:10 cd coffee; ./setup.py --add milk Jul 28 08:08:18 :) Jul 28 08:08:35 did you see that? http://apple.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/07/27/1927219&from=rss Jul 28 08:08:50 an anthi theft system Jul 28 08:08:57 s/anthi/anti Jul 28 08:09:10 we could do something like that too Jul 28 08:09:16 hi Jul 28 08:09:21 Im reading this right now, seriously the guys at Linspire smoke crack -> http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=2007072014373817 Jul 28 08:09:52 | grep calories > /dev/null Jul 28 08:09:59 any one see these messages when flashing the kernel on the devices that just shipped ##dfu_download error -110 Jul 28 08:09:59 ] finished! Jul 28 08:10:00 squalyl: install ipolinux instant fix Jul 28 08:10:07 ipodlinux* Jul 28 08:11:57 squalyl: key pair authentication, easily done Jul 28 08:13:34 way easier is "ask a password when pairing with computer and brick mobile device after 3 failures" Jul 28 08:13:46 no need for a new patent to do that Jul 28 08:13:50 that works too Jul 28 08:14:17 I could write patents for Apple, cool \o/ Jul 28 08:14:21 but key pair is already done, no need to invent the wheel again Jul 28 08:15:15 i'm not totally aware of how it works but key pair souns "a unique host" to me. Maybe we can export the key i don't know Jul 28 08:15:24 s/souns/sounds Jul 28 08:16:10 that: http://sial.org/howto/openssh/publickey-auth/ Jul 28 08:16:20 squalyl: wiat, you want to start limiting where people can charge their neo? Jul 28 08:16:27 OK I know that :) Jul 28 08:16:38 ScaredyCat: lol not a all Jul 28 08:16:47 there could be a password dialog whenever it's plugged into an external power source Jul 28 08:17:09 that would take annoying to a new level Jul 28 08:17:17 wtf is the point... Jul 28 08:17:27 take the battery out charge it elsewhere Jul 28 08:17:34 true Jul 28 08:17:41 yes Jul 28 08:17:42 you *can't* on an ipod. Jul 28 08:18:25 so forget it, I was 50% kidding :) Jul 28 08:18:36 the idea of a patent for this was funny to me Jul 28 08:18:48 :) But from other side, quite interesting idea -- power socket will charge only authorized devices:) Jul 28 08:19:01 i'm guessing the anti-theft devices on the moko and privacy protection in general will be on a pretty good level Jul 28 08:19:29 Move to a safer place? Jul 28 08:19:32 This could be a pain to enter a password or pin everytime we want to charge it T_T Jul 28 08:20:02 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[P1_Owners]] [[Openmoko_for_other_devices]] [[SH1]] [[OpenMoko_Local_Groups:_Auckland]] [[Flashing_openmoko]] [[Developer_preview]] Jul 28 08:20:02 squalyl eh.. whatfor that'? Jul 28 08:24:07 drkludge: did you find your problem? Jul 28 08:24:39 yes Jul 28 08:24:50 late night cloning on the command line Jul 28 08:25:03 wrong parameter on -a ? Jul 28 08:25:16 I used the -a 5 which is for a root fs when it should have been a -3 Jul 28 08:25:20 ;-) Jul 28 08:25:33 reflashing boot fs and kernel now. Jul 28 08:25:35 happened to be too - Jul 28 08:25:46 LOL Jul 28 08:25:57 The kids think the phone is cool Jul 28 08:26:01 root fs takes about 7 to 8 minutes cause its only 64KB per second Jul 28 08:26:08 mine too Jul 28 08:26:15 LOL They thought it was an iPhone Jul 28 08:26:27 mine have been waiting for these since christmas Jul 28 08:26:53 Yeah I noticed the long fs flash time too. Hitting the aux button helps Jul 28 08:27:08 Well it keeps timeout from happening Jul 28 08:27:10 i don't know why Jul 28 08:27:18 i didn't get timeout Jul 28 08:27:29 I got one or two Jul 28 08:27:37 It seems ok now Jul 28 08:27:41 problem is that DFU doesn't use bulk io on usb Jul 28 08:27:59 wasn't really meant to load up 30mB Jul 28 08:28:18 I wonder if my timeouts were because I hadn't had the battery charging very long Jul 28 08:28:34 probably - i had to steal a battery from a Nokia phone Jul 28 08:28:54 i'm not even sure its charging. Jul 28 08:29:04 Have you tried using the phone yet? Jul 28 08:29:14 its not a phone yet Jul 28 08:29:30 Oh Jul 28 08:29:38 did you load latest image Jul 28 08:29:55 I am loading it now Jul 28 08:29:57 Have you tried using the phone yet? Jul 28 08:29:59 hehe Jul 28 08:30:05 its not a phone yet Jul 28 08:30:18 good one Jul 28 08:30:43 the keypad concept works very well Jul 28 08:31:21 i'm not sure about charger. I was ssh'd in a left it there and now the phone is dead Jul 28 08:31:29 Well I soon see what it does Jul 28 08:31:54 i hear it will play mp3 - will find out tommorow Jul 28 08:32:10 4:32 AM here so i got's to go. Jul 28 08:32:29 Thanks for your help Jul 28 08:32:31 Night Jul 28 08:32:37 np goodnight Jul 28 08:40:26 haha let's test your anti phising skills =) http://www.siteadvisor.com/quizzes/phishing_0707/ Jul 28 08:41:56 that test is bogus since it doesn't give me all the tools a real visit to the website does Jul 28 08:42:40 Of course. But given pictures are sufficient =) (at least they say that) Jul 28 08:42:59 You'll have explanations in the results Jul 28 08:43:11 and I claim the sky is green where I am Jul 28 08:43:27 you have no way to verify my claim without actually being here Jul 28 08:44:17 Does anyone know if you have to power the usb connection on the neo so that you can use a keyboard? Jul 28 08:44:26 blindcoder but i can guess which drugs youre taking ;9 Jul 28 08:44:47 siteadvisor is silly Jul 28 08:45:18 roh: caffeeine :-) Jul 28 08:45:42 wow.. caffeine makes the sky green for you? Jul 28 08:45:47 lol Jul 28 08:46:11 YOU ANSWERED 10 OF 10 QUESTIONS CORRECTLY Jul 28 08:46:12 i know fluffy and pink.. but green? Jul 28 08:46:14 yay Jul 28 08:46:18 ;) Jul 28 08:46:22 I'm a feckin' genius :P Jul 28 08:46:32 maybe it's caffeine++ :) Jul 28 08:46:50 roh: blind, colorblind, all the same to me :) Jul 28 08:57:58 lo all Jul 28 09:08:54 * hhf423 yawns Jul 28 09:41:09 I'm a little disappointed about laforge's message :( Targetting geeks only will never help to make OpenMoko known. Even if our resources are limited, I think we should interest other firms in opensource, to show them the benefits of such technologies. Of course we can't compete with big phone makers, but there is no reason to be afraid of that. Why no distribution deals with carriers? Why not targetting the normal phone market, even if it' Jul 28 09:41:22 I should reply on a list, but which one? Jul 28 09:42:42 hey all Jul 28 09:44:00 squalyl: You got cut off at "normal phone market, even if it'" Jul 28 09:46:06 sorry Jul 28 09:46:18 I'm a little disappointed about laforge's message :( Targetting geeks only will never help to make OpenMoko known. Even if our Jul 28 09:46:29 resources are limited, I think we should interest other firms in opensource, to show them the benefits of such technologies. Of course we Jul 28 09:46:36 can't compete with big phone makers, but there is no reason to be afraid of that. Why no distribution deals with carriers? Why not targetting Jul 28 09:46:42 the normal phone market, even if it's a long term goal? Setting such goals will help to motivate developers, It's far more challenging that Jul 28 09:46:49 "only for openwrt guys" Jul 28 09:46:52 i get "no rule to compile target ... dummy_hcd.c" when i try to compile these usb-modules under feisty, any ideas? Jul 28 09:46:52 nerv: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (and also SH1_FAQ, Neo1973, Developer_preview and Neo1973_Hardware#GTA01Bv4 pages) (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) Jul 28 09:55:16 hey, whats with mokomakefile, and missing WebKitGdk when configureing openmoko-rssreader? Jul 28 09:56:39 mikini good question.. i though the rssreader was pinned down to a version before that dependency came to Jul 28 09:57:55 squalyl: missed that message, where is it? Jul 28 09:58:15 I did not post this message on a list. Jul 28 09:58:31 I'll do it, on which list should I do that? Jul 28 09:58:42 devel? Jul 28 10:00:08 squalyl: no tie-in-deals with carriers is simply at the moment because for the forseeable future it will not meet their standards. Jul 28 10:00:25 The software is simply not functional enough. Jul 28 10:01:13 In the future, there is the issue that there are no additional revenue streams due to locked-in-software, for example, ringtones, or downloadable wallpaper. Jul 28 10:02:25 squalyl: was the message on irc then? Jul 28 10:03:31 We _must_ - at some time in the hopefully not too distant future have when the phone comes out of the box (or even several pre-configured versions) Jul 28 10:03:31 ah OK sorry I didnt undersand Jul 28 10:03:40 the source message is on openmoko-gsmd Jul 28 10:03:40 several options. Jul 28 10:04:03 Neo1973-teen - myspace, facebook, ... all integrated, ... Jul 28 10:04:10 jgm: about "GSM Modem Confusion" Jul 28 10:04:40 Neo1973-Stockbroker - Financial times, stock RSS feeds, ... Jul 28 10:04:52 roh: ought to have been if it breaks build at least. is webkit available somewhere? cant find any traces of it... Jul 28 10:05:22 Ah yeah, seen it Jul 28 10:06:05 It is... worrying... that some people (who are being paid to build this, remember) seem to be treating it as a hobbyist project Jul 28 10:06:22 mikini its beeing in the works, but needs a newer oe and thus its better to wait for the merge Jul 28 10:06:47 Think it's going to cause a lot of grief not too far down the line when the people who want to build a better 'phone are going to find themselves at odds with the "it's a hacker's 'phone" crew Jul 28 10:07:16 There should rationally be no conflict. Jul 28 10:07:26 The key word there being "rationally" Jul 28 10:08:05 i get "no rule to compile target ... dummy_hcd.c" when i try to compile these usb-modules under feisty, any ideas? Jul 28 10:08:05 It must not be a hackers phone. It must be easily switchable to be a hackers phone. Jul 28 10:08:15 I totally agree Jul 28 10:08:26 Ah well, I guess we'll wait and see. But I for one do not want to work on a project list this if it is aimed a bunch of people who could go write the thing themselves. If nothing else there is a massive UI issue that needs to be fixed for 'phones in general. I mean, can you point me to a 'phone whose UI doesn't suck? Jul 28 10:08:26 (hacker in the non-cracker sense of course) Jul 28 10:08:34 There's a reputation issue Jul 28 10:08:54 If openmoko is known to be a geek phone no one else will get interested in it. Jul 28 10:09:04 True Jul 28 10:09:30 Do keep in mind that phones are in a large part powerd by the gadget community. Jul 28 10:09:31 Where do I write all that? To the community list? (not related to gsm anymore) Jul 28 10:09:37 Which != geek per se, though comes close. Jul 28 10:09:58 geeks provides gadgets, which are used by every one else ! Jul 28 10:10:51 It's also unfortunate that they haven't talked to users about use-cases for stuff and things they are thinking of increasing. Jul 28 10:10:59 s/increasing/including/ Jul 28 10:10:59 SpeedEvil meant: It's also unfortunate that they haven't talked to users about use-cases for stuff and things they are thinking of including. Jul 28 10:11:25 I think that once the 'phones get out there more to developers we'll see more of that being pushed Jul 28 10:11:26 For example, the bluetooth comment. 'none of us uses bluetooth much'. Leading to lack of wake-on-bluetooth. Jul 28 10:11:39 It's saturday and I still haven't gotten my shippment email :( Jul 28 10:11:44 But it's going to be driven by the community Jul 28 10:12:07 yeah the bluetooth thing seemed a downer, if not supercritical Jul 28 10:12:32 It's an example of a simple hardware fix - if the communication had been made in time. Jul 28 10:12:35 is bluetooth in gta1/ Jul 28 10:12:37 *nod* Jul 28 10:12:39 dietsunkist, yes Jul 28 10:12:42 yes - bluetooth is in. Jul 28 10:12:51 drivers? Jul 28 10:12:51 dietsunkist: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (and also SH1_FAQ, Neo1973, Developer_preview and Neo1973_Hardware#GTA01Bv4 pages) (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) Jul 28 10:12:56 It's odd that Harald says that they are not trying to be another smartphone when all of the basic apps (today, contacts, calendar etc.) look very familiar to anyone who has used winmobile Jul 28 10:13:23 the issue is that the CPU has to be awake to listen to it, which means that the battery life with bluetooth is on is 48 hours or so. Jul 28 10:13:27 jgm, the basic apps need to. What comes after... Jul 28 10:13:53 jgm: I don't buy his reasoning Jul 28 10:14:05 i wonder if symbian could be loaded.... Jul 28 10:14:16 jgm: it sounds like "I'm too lazy too implement it, so I call it crap so I don't have to implement it" Jul 28 10:15:00 mjr: Actually I disagree. What *needs* to be there are solid interfaces to the hardware. After that we can worry about the apps Jul 28 10:15:00 With another wire on the bluetooth -mainboard connector, it could have done the same while being able to going completely to sleep. This leads to a battery life of a week or so listening to bluetooth. Jul 28 10:15:25 koen: I'm worried that it's more "It doesn't fit my personal vision so we're not going to implement it" Jul 28 10:15:31 Of course, this can't happen on 02 as the changes are too major. Jul 28 10:15:32 Which is fine, as long as they do support other people implementing it Jul 28 10:15:42 unless there is a hack. Jul 28 10:15:43 jgm: or "don't allow it to be implemented" Jul 28 10:15:56 koen: that would be Very Bad Jul 28 10:16:03 jgm, of course that too. Jul 28 10:16:15 jgm: just mention mms support and you get the idea Jul 28 10:16:25 mjr: well my point was 'that first', but yeah :) Jul 28 10:16:27 But frankly, this seems just an oversight. Granted, one that could've been solved... Jul 28 10:16:41 (even if mms is in the application layer AIUI) Jul 28 10:16:52 koen: exactly. Harald comes back with "we're not doing it" rather than "if you want it, you do it" Jul 28 10:16:55 and it'll decrease the usefulness of the phone for some usage scenarios, yes, which is unfortunate Jul 28 10:17:23 I'm limited in my explanations by my poor english vocabulary. I'm going to post a message on community list, please help me by confirming that we all have the same view about this Jul 28 10:17:28 SpeedEvil: Does gta02 have the bt fix? Jul 28 10:17:31 no. Jul 28 10:17:41 Have you contacted them about it? Jul 28 10:17:57 squalyl: I'm going to post a similar message - what openmoko must not be - in a few minx. Jul 28 10:18:09 mins Jul 28 10:18:29 bt fix? Jul 28 10:18:30 mikini edit openmoko/trunk/oe/conf/distro/include/preferred-openmoko-versions.inc and change SRCDATE_openmoko-rssreader = "20070723" to SRCDATE_openmoko-rssreader = "20070722" Jul 28 10:18:31 post it as a reply to mine :) I'm finishing the last words Jul 28 10:18:59 mikini then make clean-package-openmoko-rssreader and make openmoko-devel-image should work Jul 28 10:19:00 what really annoys me is that the openmoko people, harald, sean, werner rarely post, and when they post it's usually useless stuff Jul 28 10:19:02 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[User:Talpa]] [[User:Madbob]] [[OpenMoko_Local_Groups:_Turin]] [[OpenMoko_Local_Groups]] [[Main_Page/jp]] [[P1_Owners]] Jul 28 10:19:15 that worries me too about the future of the device Jul 28 10:19:52 I can only include that at least some of the reason for that is that they are stopped from posting more detailed stuff by managment. Jul 28 10:20:01 post done Jul 28 10:20:08 s/include/conclude/ Jul 28 10:20:08 SpeedEvil meant: I can only conclude that at least some of the reason for that is that they are stopped from posting more detailed stuff by managment. Jul 28 10:20:19 Sorry - I shouldn't try to listen to the radio while typing. Jul 28 10:20:31 :) Jul 28 10:20:41 SpeedEvil harald and sean are the management. Jul 28 10:20:42 we'll beat you for this :D Jul 28 10:21:16 Hmm. I guess they must consider it's important to hold some information. Jul 28 10:21:52 What's the issue currently? Jul 28 10:24:05 brb Jul 28 10:25:08 openmoko: 03mickey * r2541 10/trunk/oe/conf/distro/include/preferred-openmoko-versions.inc: preferred-versions: push back date of openmoko-rssreader Jul 28 10:25:21 Elrond: nothing really - just general percieved poor communication. Jul 28 10:26:21 For example - are those who are >1000 phones down the queue likely to wait a week, or 4 weeks, or ... And what's been done to cope with the orders so far. Jul 28 10:26:47 Or why it's not possible to answer at this time. Jul 28 10:27:08 SpeedEvil - Ahh, okay. The usual communication problem. Jul 28 10:27:28 And what's this "bt" thing? Jul 28 10:27:35 BlueTooth Jul 28 10:28:05 Yeah, what's up with bluetooth? Jul 28 10:28:25 It can't wake from sleep on bluetooth events. Jul 28 10:28:25 the cpu can't wake from sleep on bluetooth activity Jul 28 10:28:33 (I press a key on an external BT keyboard) Jul 28 10:29:33 The BT module is really quite frugal listening for stuff in this mode. Adding the CPU having to listen to it means that it takes a dozen times more power at best. Jul 28 10:31:05 Ahh. :-| Jul 28 10:31:34 Anyway, I'm heading away. Trying to meet mickeyl :-) Jul 28 10:37:05 Wave. Jul 28 10:40:13 squalyl: where is the message you were commenting on? I'm not seeing it. Jul 28 10:40:14 hmm, i have here some coordinates (32'42"37 04° N 117'09"43 10° W) but i can't figure out how to find them in google maps. just pasting them into the search field doent work. Jul 28 10:41:11 try 32:42:37N 117:09:43W Jul 28 10:41:13 +s Jul 28 10:41:27 openmoko: 03www-data * r2542 10/trunk/src/target/ (OM-2007.2/ OM-2008/): move OM-2008 to OM-2007.2 to indicate that this is a minor update Jul 28 10:41:50 nope, "no matching targets" :( Jul 28 10:42:52 +56° 13' 0.41", -3° 6' 42.66" works Jul 28 10:43:06 enter 3.54 3.54 into the search box Jul 28 10:43:22 now copy and paste the shown coordinate and edit Jul 28 10:43:39 openmoko: 03www-data * r2543 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/libraries/ (libmokogsmd/ libmokogsmd2/): libmokogsmd -> libmokogsmd2 Jul 28 10:43:40 wow, how did you translated this? Jul 28 10:44:44 openmoko: 03www-data * r2544 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/libraries/ (libmokojournal/ libmokojournal2/): libmokojournal -> libmokojournal2 Jul 28 10:44:45 translate what? Jul 28 10:44:52 San-diego, next to the airport? Jul 28 10:45:03 openmoko: 03www-data * r2545 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/libraries/ (libmokoui/ libmokoui2/): libmokoui -> libmokoui2 Jul 28 10:45:39 hmm, is west positive or negative? Jul 28 10:45:56 west is positive. Jul 28 10:45:59 east is negative. Jul 28 10:46:09 Elrond: Wow, you already leave now? Jul 28 10:46:15 thank you :) Jul 28 10:48:09 SpeedEvil: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/gsmd-devel/2007-July/000136.html Jul 28 10:48:27 Oh - right. Jul 28 10:49:04 openmoko: 03www-data * r2546 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/panel-plugins/: copy panel plugins to OM-2007.2 Jul 28 10:49:49 Don't subscribe to that. Jul 28 10:53:34 hi! Jul 28 10:53:42 Hello. Jul 28 10:54:13 anybody else who get a trackingnumber and CAN'T track it? Jul 28 10:54:13 numbers: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (and also SH1_FAQ, Neo1973, Developer_preview and Neo1973_Hardware#GTA01Bv4 pages) (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) Jul 28 10:54:24 what does UPS say? Jul 28 10:55:15 i didn't call them i try that later Jul 28 10:55:45 the tracking site just said: >>> UPS could not locate the shipment details for your request. Please verify your information and try again later. Jul 28 10:56:00 when did you get the email? Jul 28 10:56:45 today 6:59 Jul 28 10:56:50 AM Jul 28 10:57:01 what time is it? Jul 28 10:57:22 openmoko: 03www-data * r2547 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-dialer2/: openmoko-dialer -> openmoko-dialer2 Jul 28 10:57:27 cental europe Jul 28 10:57:40 openmoko: 03www-data * r2548 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-today2/: openmoko-today -> openmoko-today2 Jul 28 10:57:49 s/cental/central/ Jul 28 10:57:49 numbers meant: central europe Jul 28 10:57:52 numbers: That isn't very usefull for a time. Jul 28 10:57:59 Hmm. I guess wait a few hours. Jul 28 10:58:05 And then if not call them. Jul 28 10:58:18 ewanm89_laptop: it means that they are open. Jul 28 10:58:25 ewanm89_laptop: the local branch Jul 28 10:59:57 SpeedEvil: Thanks i'll call them! Jul 28 11:01:11 openmoko: 03www-data * r2549 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-today2/: delete, that wasn't supposed to be a copy Jul 28 11:01:16 SpeedEvil: Yes they would be. Jul 28 11:01:22 openmoko: 03www-data * r2550 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-dialer2/: delete, this wasn't supposed to be a copy Jul 28 11:01:39 openmoko: 03www-data * r2551 10/trunk/src/target/ (2 files in 2 dirs): openmoko-dialer -> openmoko-dialer2 Jul 28 11:01:57 openmoko: 03www-data * r2552 10/trunk/src/target/ (2 files in 2 dirs): openmoko-today -> openmoko-today2 Jul 28 11:05:39 do we know how many orders were canceled from people who didnt realize the phone was a development version? Jul 28 11:05:44 im just curious Jul 28 11:05:56 hi Jul 28 11:06:20 No, we don't. Jul 28 11:07:04 Does anyone know at what time the 'this is a developers phone' ? Jul 28 11:07:13 box was added to the store? Jul 28 11:07:25 wasnt there when i ordered mine Jul 28 11:07:33 #? Jul 28 11:07:38 2019 Jul 28 11:13:54 would sending a "0" to /sys/bus/platform/devices/gta01-pm-gsm.0/power_on kill the power to the GSM module, or just as it to shut itself down? Jul 28 11:15:48 *ask Jul 28 11:17:25 kills Jul 28 11:17:41 telefon call to ups sucks, (i gave up after 14 min on hold, i hate IVR-systems) Jul 28 11:18:26 what did you want to find out? Jul 28 11:19:00 anyone received their phone? Jul 28 11:19:24 mytracking number dont work Jul 28 11:19:52 what about the direct link in the email? Jul 28 11:21:04 wont work neither Jul 28 11:21:10 weird Jul 28 11:21:25 jup Jul 28 11:22:44 quinton that will disable the gsm serial but not really the modem. that is switched off via at-command Jul 28 11:23:25 numbers, how long ago did you get the tracking email? Jul 28 11:23:33 quinton thats a limitation of the used gsm chipset. Jul 28 11:24:03 i was just wondering if there was a way to shut it off completely for those who are paranoid of being tracked Jul 28 11:24:48 Psi: today 6:59 cest Jul 28 11:25:56 i suppose it could take a while for the package to enter the tracking system Jul 28 11:26:18 openmoko: 03mickey * r2553 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/libraries/libmokopanelui2/ (19 files in 3 dirs): libmokopanelui2: initial import, extracted from libmokoui(1) Jul 28 11:26:23 Psi: do you think it will take more time untill ups updates their site? Jul 28 11:26:32 quinton yes. send the gsm-modem the right command and then disable the serial with the sysfs entry Jul 28 11:26:53 Psi: Thanks! Jul 28 11:26:56 numbers, its definitely possible Jul 28 11:27:26 How many people subscribed to the community list? Discussion seems to continue on gsmd-devel without paying attention to my message :/ Jul 28 11:28:33 the weeks from ordering till yesterday i was quite cool BUT NOW i sit on needles Jul 28 11:28:43 roh, would you have to trust the closed gsm-modem? or is there some way to be sure it's off? Jul 28 11:28:44 ;-) Jul 28 11:29:00 I just subscribed to community, but I think I was too late to get your message. Jul 28 11:29:18 I'll put a link on gsmd-devel Jul 28 11:29:24 quinton gta02 will have a real load switch there. for gta01 it was much too late to change that. Jul 28 11:29:33 Not subscribed to gsmd-devel. Can you paste me a link? Jul 28 11:30:17 roh, like a relay switch? so you can hear it get disconnected? Jul 28 11:30:21 http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2007-July/008394.html Jul 28 11:30:51 quinton no. electronic. but controlled from the app-cpu Jul 28 11:31:22 roh, how do you mean 'loud'? Jul 28 11:31:50 roh, does it actually make a noise? Jul 28 11:32:15 load not loud. basically a transistor which is dimensioned to switch loads and not be 'analog' in behaviour Jul 28 11:32:17 oh, i misread it Jul 28 11:32:43 sorry, i'm still half asleep Jul 28 11:35:10 roh, okay, so are you saying that the gta02 will have the ability to physically cut the power on the openmoko side, but the gta01 does not? Jul 28 11:35:46 http://62.75.157.44/openmoko/moko_wire_black.png Jul 28 11:36:03 have some Wallpapers here ! Jul 28 11:36:03 yes. but since the code which switches off the gsm is from someone under control of openmoko and not ti i trust it works Jul 28 11:36:05 http://62.75.157.44/openmoko/moko_wire_black.png Jul 28 11:36:47 what do you think about it? Jul 28 11:38:22 roh, are you talking about code that runs on the gsm itself? Jul 28 11:38:48 quinton yes. Jul 28 11:39:06 roh, wow, i didn't know openmoko people had infiltrated so far =) Jul 28 11:39:47 roh, well that's very cool. thanks much for the info Jul 28 11:39:49 quinton not all code in there is ours. just whats needed to make it work properly Jul 28 11:40:22 http://62.75.157.44/openmoko/moko_wire_black.png <-- youre opinion ! Jul 28 11:40:29 :) Jul 28 11:40:32 =) Jul 28 11:40:56 ;) be shure we are very much aware how paranoid a linux geek can be and what cornercases want to be controlled Jul 28 11:41:55 i get more happy with this project the more i find out Jul 28 11:42:12 openmoko: 03mickey * r2554 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/libraries/libmokogsmd2/ (6 files in 2 dirs): libmokogsmd2: catch up with name changes Jul 28 11:42:14 roh: Sent you an email a day or so ago, didya get it? 'twas about VISA charge. :-) Jul 28 11:44:08 dando, it's cool, but from a distance it looks blurry, maybe if you culled the back edges? Jul 28 11:44:54 daxxar dunno... visa? i do not have a clue about sales/shipping atm Jul 28 11:45:00 did you look at it with 1280*1024 res? Jul 28 11:45:30 dando, yeah Jul 28 11:45:39 roh: Oh, okay. Where should I send an inquiry about it? I've gotten an email about me being charged, but I can't see the charge on my end, so I was curious if something had gone wrong. Jul 28 11:45:57 ok i didnt do them Jul 28 11:46:07 http://62.75.157.44/openmoko/ <-- here are some more Jul 28 11:46:15 daxxar sales@ handles that Jul 28 11:46:30 but i will tell him to cull the back edges Jul 28 11:46:35 btw, what do you see the logo as? Jul 28 11:46:42 roh: Thanks Jul 28 11:46:46 at first i figured it was a dot on a globe or something Jul 28 11:47:09 reminds me of the death star somehow Jul 28 11:47:13 but when i saw it on a phone i saw it as a person Jul 28 11:47:15 I don't know if that's a good thing or not Jul 28 11:47:59 bluelightning, heh, that's awesome, i think i'll choose to see it that way from now on =) Jul 28 11:48:25 under what license is the logo ? Jul 28 11:48:48 I showed off the Neo amongst some of my geeky friends at the bar this evening.. they all seemed pretty interested Jul 28 11:48:52 dando: It looks great, just the person's head is a little on the bumpy side of things - maybe he can make it perfectly round? Jul 28 11:49:36 bluelightning: show it to all your friends too :) Jul 28 11:49:42 ok Jul 28 11:50:44 squalyl: the problem is that non-geeks aren't impressed that it can't do very much yet without opening a console :) Jul 28 11:52:41 This "SIM is disconnected" error message I get with Cingular / AT&T sims. If anyone wants to get on my neo to take a look and see if I've done something profoundly stupid - I'll set up ssh access as required. Jul 28 11:53:27 bluelightning: That's the point Jul 28 11:53:44 we must develop openmoko so that it becomes impressive to everyone Jul 28 11:53:51 squalyl: indeed Jul 28 11:54:19 squaly: we need to develop it so it becomes impressive to geeks first or we won't have anyone to push to everyone. Jul 28 11:54:22 dando, i like the solid ones Jul 28 11:54:30 unfortunately last time I tried to connect to the phone via serial it never responded... so either it's toasted or there was something wrong with the image I flashed Jul 28 11:54:53 (phone as in the phone AT interface) Jul 28 11:55:07 maybe i should publish them in the wiki Jul 28 11:55:24 but we need to know the license Jul 28 11:55:25 I know I obsess about this on a daily basis but I love the material that the phone is made from. It's like some kind of alien material that i've never seen used anywhere else. Jul 28 11:55:34 geeks first is a good thing of course, but we need to keep in mind greater goals, or we'll be locked in our small goals :) Jul 28 11:55:45 is it ok to copy the logo? Jul 28 11:55:47 since when do geeks have small goals? Jul 28 11:56:02 lol no idea Jul 28 11:57:15 what I mean is that such a great project must concern everyone not just linux enthusiasts :) Jul 28 11:57:43 because they're already convinced that neo will be great :) Jul 28 11:57:51 to my eyes, the neo is the sleekest phone around Jul 28 11:57:51 not sure if i'm just biased though Jul 28 11:58:33 moin Jul 28 12:00:12 moin Jul 28 12:01:11 i think this could well change things, when the masses discover openmoko the phone companies will find it harder to justify locking everything down Jul 28 12:05:39 Anyone get 3G at&t sim cards working? Jul 28 12:06:10 hey calamous1_, just the guy I wanted to see Jul 28 12:06:30 Hey noidd: whats up Jul 28 12:06:56 Linky for you: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/gsmd-devel/2007-July/000128.html Jul 28 12:07:44 its perhaps possible that the errors we're getting are due to the lack of that patch Jul 28 12:08:07 I don't think so looking at it, but we should test it just in case Jul 28 12:09:53 Yeah, I agree Jul 28 12:10:32 But even without gsmd and libgsm-tool cu still gives an error. From what I understand there arnt any drivers for the cylapso device Jul 28 12:10:51 It is connected via standard URAT and you just talk to it. lol Jul 28 12:10:58 yeah, which is why i'm not sure its relevant Jul 28 12:11:06 oh - I have another SIM to test too Jul 28 12:11:17 from a local pay as you go company Jul 28 12:11:42 Nice, I'm going to get one of those too. Jul 28 12:12:07 What type of stores sell pay as you go (besides at&t)? Jul 28 12:16:37 openmoko: 03www-data * r2555 10/trunk/src/target/ (2 files in 2 dirs): revert bogus move Jul 28 12:16:53 openmoko: 03www-data * r2556 10/trunk/src/target/ (2 files in 2 dirs): revert bogus move Jul 28 12:19:03 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[User:BlueLightning]] [[User:Javiroman]] [[Artwork]] [[P1_Owners]] [[SH1]] Jul 28 12:19:48 Walmart Jul 28 12:20:12 the one I bought has completely anonymous phone Jul 28 12:20:16 pay in cash Jul 28 12:20:19 no registration Jul 28 12:20:31 Nice. I had to give att my name for my prepaid Jul 28 12:20:33 it piggybacks on top of cingular (now at&t) Jul 28 12:21:07 t1nladn1tW Jul 28 12:21:25 time to change that password :-P Jul 28 12:21:25 good password :) Jul 28 12:21:31 thanks :-P Jul 28 12:21:45 note to self - windows focus != sloppy Jul 28 12:22:05 thankfully its for a machine which is not reachable from the outside Jul 28 12:22:12 but still have to change it Jul 28 12:22:16 * noidd groans Jul 28 12:22:54 Hmm. My neo wont seem to turn on this morning Jul 28 12:23:24 that sounds ba Jul 28 12:23:25 bad Jul 28 12:23:38 any chance you've bricked it? Jul 28 12:23:59 It worked fine lastnight. I havnt done any uboot things or anything Jul 28 12:24:10 calamous1_, mine too, i left it plugged into the usb for a while and then i could start it again Jul 28 12:25:00 I'll try that. Jul 28 12:25:30 One cant turn on the phone with the USB cable w/o the batter right? Jul 28 12:25:40 i think that's right Jul 28 12:26:05 i think it's because it needs to negotiate for more power Jul 28 12:26:42 a friend of mine has a (non-moko) phone that won't charge from USB if the battery is too flat Jul 28 12:26:55 * hhf423 hums a Beatkes song Jul 28 12:27:05 yes, that is correct - it doens't power from usb Jul 28 12:27:13 i think that the moko will charge with a dead battery, but really slowly Jul 28 12:27:33 the current version of the moko will charge fast even from flat Jul 28 12:27:45 the previous version had a bug in which it wouldnm'ty charge at all. Jul 28 12:28:06 I wish it had a charge indicator light Jul 28 12:28:10 openmoko: 03mickey * r2557 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/libraries/libmokoui2/ (6 files in 2 dirs): libmokoui2: bump name and version Jul 28 12:28:17 but there are no LEDs on it what so ever Jul 28 12:29:05 so when my friend's phone got too flat, he had to get a separate charger that you drop the battery into, as there was no other way to charge it. brilliant design decision on the part of the makers, whoever they were. Jul 28 12:29:38 cockup over conspiricy every time Jul 28 12:30:24 "never attribute to malice that which can be ascribed to incompetence", yup Jul 28 12:30:29 I'm going out for breakfast. see you all later. but I would love to hear from a core neo develorer abou the at&t 3g sim cards. They are planning to mass market the divice arn't they? Jul 28 12:30:36 noidd: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanlon's_Razor Jul 28 12:31:24 http://xkcd.com/277/ Jul 28 12:32:19 openmoko: 03mickey * r2558 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/libraries/libmokojournal2/ (7 files in 3 dirs): libmokojournal2: bump library name and version Jul 28 12:37:46 calamous1_ that will be fixed for the mass market. of course. we are already tracking the issue. just takes some time.. its weekend you know ;) Jul 28 12:38:51 hey all Jul 28 12:48:52 doesn't sales@openmoko.org work? Jul 28 12:48:54 "smtp;550 unknown user" Jul 28 12:49:06 trt ,cin Jul 28 12:49:10 try .com& Jul 28 12:49:15 man it's too early Jul 28 12:49:22 try .com Jul 28 12:49:29 Yeah, already done, just strange that it doesn't atleast forward. :-) Jul 28 12:50:27 well it sort of makes sense, the org is for community, and the com is for business, it makes sense to keep the separate Jul 28 12:57:50 roh: do we think its a hardware issue? Jul 28 12:58:08 noidd no. that would affect other cards as well Jul 28 12:58:10 roh: or software, gsm firmware ? Jul 28 12:58:38 i dunno. we will find out Jul 28 12:58:58 if you guys need to be able to replicate the issue let me know Jul 28 12:59:18 i'll either leave my phone up 24/7 so you can ssh into it or ship you a SIM card Jul 28 12:59:22 whichever is easiest for you Jul 28 12:59:59 the latter would be the easyiest.. but eventually we can just use another sim of the same manuf. Jul 28 13:00:11 ok, well - the offer is there Jul 28 13:00:45 noidd but thanks Jul 28 13:10:48 hi Jul 28 13:10:50 * superbnerb says now where is that wiki link... Jul 28 13:11:15 * superbnerb got it Jul 28 13:11:18 b1303s: hey Jul 28 13:12:31 hmm, i too was one of those that used the openmoko and neo1973 interchangably. Jul 28 13:12:39 No more. Jul 28 13:13:18 superbnerb: lol worse things have happened Jul 28 13:13:42 it's like using PC to mean an intel x86 running windows Jul 28 13:13:55 sort of Jul 28 13:14:10 Bryce_Leo: you seem like a smart if not accessible guy, do you know if python runs on this bad boy yet... i'm looking as you type Jul 28 13:14:31 superbnerb: yes, python, perl, lua all run fine Jul 28 13:14:36 superbnerb: i thought that python was in the oe tree Jul 28 13:14:37 so yes Jul 28 13:14:46 haha noidd beat me to it Jul 28 13:14:56 noidd: does lua have the gtk bindings in there? Jul 28 13:15:00 noidd: do ya know?> Jul 28 13:15:06 erm, I don't know. Jul 28 13:15:18 I do know that i'm building the perl bindings for Gtk for openmoko as we speak Jul 28 13:15:20 so if i want to build a web 2.0 app, and port it to this framework, if i write it in python i'd be ahead of the game eh? Jul 28 13:15:53 there isn't a huge amount of cpu on the first version which is the main disadvantage of using perl / python bindings Jul 28 13:16:05 noidd: sweet deal Jul 28 13:16:06 it takes a while to initialize the libraries Jul 28 13:16:08 Does anyone here actually understand the entire build system? I have some source code that forms a new package I want to add in to the build but can't work out how to get this to work Jul 28 13:16:35 jgm: started creating a BitBake file yet? Jul 28 13:16:50 superbnerb: how do you mean? you mean you're porting a web2.0 app to be offline? Jul 28 13:16:53 zecke: yep (although I'm not entirely sure what should go in it) Jul 28 13:17:05 jgm: No - I finally gave up and compile my gtk application last night outside of the build system so I could run it on the neo. Jul 28 13:17:13 jgm|away: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/User:CesarB/Using_a_local_overlay Jul 28 13:17:23 noidd: What about making a modified perl interpreter, kinda like mod_perl, that keeps the interpreter running between sessions, and using dbus to talk to it? :-) Jul 28 13:17:39 I haven't even looked at how the performance is, or what the issues are, so this is just a wild suggestion with no base in reality. Jul 28 13:17:48 daxxar: there is a package called gtkserver which does just that Jul 28 13:17:58 Kensan: I put it all in quilt so it kept the patch around, but it doesn't seem to want to compile locally it is trying to pull a file down remotely Jul 28 13:18:02 (which doesn't exist) Jul 28 13:18:03 Bryce_Leo: In a way, yes. the user would "bring up" the app that is on the phone and it would connect to an online database when they have the active session going. Jul 28 13:18:04 Oh, you're specifically referring to the gtk libs? Jul 28 13:18:11 you open up a pipe to it and pass widget details back a forward over that Jul 28 13:18:13 Thanks Kensan! I'll give that a try! Jul 28 13:18:13 I thought you meant python/perl in general Jul 28 13:18:19 and that would work using perl, python, ruby, shell etc Jul 28 13:18:31 Yes, I've read about it :-) Jul 28 13:19:00 superbnerb: interesting idea. You could really write that in any language c/c++, python, perl, as long as you worked out the gui right and negotiated connections correctly Jul 28 13:19:04 zecke: I added an 'openmoko-extensionhandler' task to trunk/oe/packages/tasks/task-openmoko.bb (in the base group) Jul 28 13:19:18 superbnerb: saves you the hell of trying to get it to format correctly in minimo Jul 28 13:19:43 zecke: And created a trunk/oe/packages/openmoko-base/openmoko-extensionhandler_svn.bb file with the details that I *think* I need in there Jul 28 13:20:08 But then when it all runs something tries to go fetch a file from a website, which obviously isn't there as the source is all in the tree Jul 28 13:20:30 I have a gut feeling we're about to see efl libraries hit the device pretty hard soon Jul 28 13:21:17 Bryce_Leo: right, i see minimo is the browser, or one of them for this thing. Yeah, no way i'd want that... not when we have access to the whole OS. Jul 28 13:22:08 Bryce_Leo: so, if i am writing the app for desktop browsers and for the openmoko platform... i couldn't write that in C if i only wanted to write once, and change the look, could i? Jul 28 13:22:17 superbnerb: but they why build the app as a web2.0 anyway. Why not just make it a local app, that pulls your info from the web if available and if not uses the cached copy on the devices and merges quietly once on line agian? Jul 28 13:22:42 sounds like you're looking for google gears functionality Jul 28 13:23:08 jgm: the place looks okay (I assume it is in the BBFILES glob) Jul 28 13:23:27 top Jul 28 13:23:31 Bryce_Leo: i also want the same app for "real" browsers, laptops, that kind of thing. Since i haven't started yet, i'm just getting my bearings and gearing up to write. Jul 28 13:23:36 or get someone to lol. Jul 28 13:23:51 jgm: the question is what did you inherit and what SRC_URI do you set Jul 28 13:23:58 noidd: google gears? Ain't that cheating? lol Jul 28 13:24:44 superbnerb: hmm i see what you mean, but if you're going to build a web interface at first why not stick with the same vein and just build multiple web frontends like myapp.com/minimo myapp.com/iphone myapp.com/firefox myapp.com/safari myapp.com/ie7 Jul 28 13:25:18 hey guys take a look at this http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Create_a_package_from_existing_sources it's a simpler way to use a local overlay :) Jul 28 13:25:20 superbnerb: that sort of thing, and just keep as many condensed as possible possibly just forward to other directories when you have say the safari and firefox versions displaying properly on both Jul 28 13:25:40 noidd: efl? Jul 28 13:25:44 zecke: so I set 'inherit openmoko' and don't have a SRC_URI (I copied this from an existing application) Jul 28 13:25:54 code re-use is not cheating although i've not looked at the licence - it may not be compatible with the philosophy of the phone Jul 28 13:26:03 enlightenment foundation libraries Jul 28 13:26:07 Ah, ok Jul 28 13:26:16 jgm: check classes/openmoko.bbclass it sets a SRC_URI depending on the PN (package name) Jul 28 13:26:20 the enlightenment widget set basically Jul 28 13:26:43 if your source code is foreign you don't need inherit openmoko, maybe inherit autotools is sufficient Jul 28 13:26:48 noidd: wait a sec, is openmoko using evas for display? Jul 28 13:26:56 No Jul 28 13:27:04 * mokobot hands ScaredyCat Jason1's neo Jul 28 13:27:16 noidd: just a few of the foundation classes? Jul 28 13:27:19 although a version that does wouldn't surprise me at sopme point in the future. Just an opinion :-) Jul 28 13:27:42 noidd: haha i completely agree, i think it could be a heck of an interesting project Jul 28 13:27:46 * daxxar breaks down in tears Jul 28 13:27:47 Your credit card was charged fully, and your order should be proceed when the 2nd batch of shipment arrives FICA between 8/10-15. Thanks. Jul 28 13:28:18 daxxar it will came Jul 28 13:28:21 well microsoft can blow goats... personal feeling of course. that is a good for the browsers but i really want a native openmoko app, just a double click away from the play, you know what i mean. Jul 28 13:28:24 come Jul 28 13:28:27 I was charged almost a week ago, so I was hoping I'd be a part of the first shipment. Jul 28 13:28:30 Oh well. :-) Jul 28 13:28:44 I guess I've got enough stuff on my mind until then, but I bet shipping & costums will take a bit of time. Jul 28 13:29:00 Customs* Jul 28 13:29:09 costumes too lol Jul 28 13:29:12 Okay giving 'inherit autotools' a go Jul 28 13:29:17 superbnerb: i see what you mean, but consistency is an important part of an app, i mean in the end it's all your call Jul 28 13:29:47 Bryce_Leo: you've helped me out a lot man, just this conversation was a good thing for me and my direction. Jul 28 13:30:14 topic two, will there be a need for another phone that uses openmoko? Jul 28 13:30:27 i.e. what if FIC can't get their act together? Jul 28 13:30:39 It looks like I need to set SRC_URI, should that be every file that I care about or just the .c/.h/.xml files? Jul 28 13:30:42 we'd have an OS with no sandbox to play in. Jul 28 13:31:58 superbnerb: haha no problemat all dude Jul 28 13:32:33 noidd: google gears needs php and a mysql database.... that ain't in the openmoko is it? i'm looking Jul 28 13:32:42 superbnerb: they've got OM limping on a treo,i'm sure that the HTC hackers will have a version up on theres once the software gets closer to ready Jul 28 13:32:46 Bryce_Leo,noidd: http://www.vanille-media.de/site/index.php/2007/07/05/efl-related-work/ Jul 28 13:34:21 looking Jul 28 13:34:44 Kensan: sweet deal, that sounds awesome to me Jul 28 13:34:51 now can openmoko be forked into another OS, kinda how ubuntu stole debian and made it better. Jul 28 13:35:41 noidd: i didn't find it, no mention of it on the wiki, but they would be too heavy for this phone, no? Jul 28 13:36:14 Bryce_Leo,noidd: they are also in contact with rasterman: http://www.vanille-media.de/site/index.php/2007/06/25/back-from-first-taipei-visit/ Jul 28 13:36:51 aye Jul 28 13:37:16 Kensan: that's great news! Jul 28 13:37:22 noidd: there's also efl related bugzilla entries ;) Jul 28 13:37:54 superbnerb: yes OM can be forked, i doubt it will happen because it's so new. Debian was chosen as the base for ubuntu because the debian unstable is really quite a good place to pull packages. Jul 28 13:39:20 superbnerb: infact my bet is that after the base OM distro solidifies and begins to be very stable there will be a couple offshoots pushing new functionality (diff WM, widget set, etc) Jul 28 13:39:27 I don't believe for a second that forking openmoko would be a good thing. The core devs are extremely responsive so there really would be no point. Jul 28 13:39:43 Bryce_Leo: i'm a conary man, foresight really. debian based OS's aren't packaged that well. too many "others' that you have to take the time to pull over. Jul 28 13:39:47 forking is typically a human issue, not a technical one. Jul 28 13:40:09 HI! I Received a Phone call from UPS, they want that I send a mail where I write that the phone respect the CE normatives. Jul 28 13:40:22 now, that is true exactly? Jul 28 13:40:41 Tyrael: which country are you in? Jul 28 13:40:45 Italy Jul 28 13:41:06 if someone can make a buck off the OS, then someone will fork it. Jul 28 13:41:17 noidd: i don't think that it woudl be a good thing, but i think you can agree that it is going to be very likely Jul 28 13:41:22 Tyrael: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/SH1_FAQ#Has_the_Neo1973_been_through_any_FCC.2FCE_Certification Jul 28 13:41:27 plus every current distro will fork because it's a diversification thing. Jul 28 13:41:39 all good portfolios diversify. Jul 28 13:41:40 I really don't think it will Jul 28 13:41:41 Tyrael: ->the phones are CE certified. Jul 28 13:41:57 Kensan: you are ridiculously quick at finding those things Jul 28 13:42:02 plus, with our buildsystem we don't need to fork. We can use layman or whatever Jul 28 13:42:11 you want a different distro image? build a .bb for it Jul 28 13:42:29 Kansan: thanks! Jul 28 13:42:34 Kensan soryy Jul 28 13:42:42 Bryce_Leo: idling IRC helps too *lol* Jul 28 13:43:03 the same source tree and generate any number of different OS images Jul 28 13:43:27 noidd: I can see what you mean i guess, but heh, nothign to do but wait and see Jul 28 13:43:44 Kensan: haha i'm sure! Jul 28 13:44:21 noidd: that's a really good point, it should be able to be diverse enough not to need to be forked Jul 28 13:44:24 superbnerb: i was looking at foresight Jul 28 13:44:40 superbnerb :do you know a lot about it/ Jul 28 13:44:58 urgh, serious lag today Jul 28 13:44:58 kl] Jul 28 13:45:26 robster: what would you like to know. it's really the only one to use. Jul 28 13:45:49 ubuntu and all the other "easy to use" ones have enough plebes. Jul 28 13:45:49 superbnerb: is it possible to create a derivative using the rpath online builder thing? Jul 28 13:45:50 Bryce_Leo: IMHO Openembedded is very flexible which will provide the "framework". Why should vendor fork and do all the "dirty" work themselves when they can maintain their own overlay and just haveto take care of their own packages (BB-Recipes)? Jul 28 13:46:10 robster: you mean, build your own distro, yeah it's easier then a mofo Jul 28 13:46:20 ok not easy, but it allows you to do it Jul 28 13:46:39 signup for your own project man, read the wiki and bob's your uncle, charlie Jul 28 13:46:54 the only real reason I see for a fork would be the change of buildsystem./ Jul 28 13:47:01 superbnerb: see, i'm a debian developer but also a gnome hacker and i'm getting pretty exasperated at the brokenness of the combination of the two :-( Jul 28 13:47:05 Kensan: yeah, i can see what you mean, but it could always be that someone decides that they can "do better" and tries for it Jul 28 13:47:06 but the buildsystem is great - it just has a steep learning curve Jul 28 13:47:30 noidd: it's a cliff, not a curve Jul 28 13:47:36 jgm: very good point Jul 28 13:48:02 Bryce_Leo: yes and that's the beauty of Opensource. If you think you can do it better, you do it. If you truly are better, the community will recognize that. Jul 28 13:48:12 robster: i know that we foresighters get gnome updated quite regularly as ken (the main guy) is somehow connected with the gnome deal Jul 28 13:48:34 i just read about gnome 2.18 and i've had it for 4 months now-ish Jul 28 13:48:48 read in the latest magazine that is Jul 28 13:49:08 superbnerb: right, exactly, in fact the tag line for foresight is that is aims to show off gnome & the fd.o stack Jul 28 13:49:29 Kensan: haha certainly keeps people on their toes Jul 28 13:50:59 my neo just teleported again Jul 28 13:51:54 dude, it's great and if you k now about linux and gnome and want to develop with them, they would love to have a man of your ability. they are all really cool and smart gnu guys Jul 28 13:52:38 then you have dipshits like me who ask lame questions, but a guy's got to start somewhere lol, even if i've used linux at home for 2 years now, u ain't never gonna know everything Jul 28 13:53:13 what are you doing in here robster? Jul 28 13:55:18 superbnerb: i work for o-hand Jul 28 13:55:24 Bryce_Leo: insightfull ./ comment about forking http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=247725&cid=19810737 Jul 28 13:56:42 jgm: http://www.openembedded.org/repo/org.openembedded.dev/packages/openmoko-apps/omext_0.2.bb Jul 28 13:56:48 o-hand eh? Jul 28 13:57:41 well gotta build in some shelves dudes. thanks for the chat Jul 28 13:58:04 Kensan: that is a good comment Jul 28 13:58:24 koen: thanks, will give it a go Jul 28 13:59:00 *still updating tree* does minimo build again or no? Jul 28 14:02:29 Kensan, it also says something about patents in IT. Jul 28 14:07:51 I just added an entry in the Hello World howto at the wiki here: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Building_a_hello_world_application#GDK_the_Wrong_.2F_Easy_Way Jul 28 14:08:34 It would be cool if someone were to go through and give it a try and make any corrections needed. It allows someone to get an gdk app / test compiled and running without messing with BB. I think that's good for a learner Jul 28 14:10:09 argh, the UPS operetor give me wrong email... Now I need to compile a internet form but I need the address of Fic in USA. Jul 28 14:10:28 arcanericky: i still think it's important for people to learn bitbake, i should hope that doesn't become a norm! Jul 28 14:11:48 I think so also. But when you're learning (if you learn as I do) you learn in baby steps. If people should just jump to bitbake, then they should just skip the command line example that was already there. Jul 28 14:12:00 any idea on when cad designs, of the phone case will be up? Jul 28 14:12:34 arcanericky: i can see what you mean, i just hope that it doesn't grow out of control! Jul 28 14:13:41 what is the postal code of California? Jul 28 14:14:14 .... california is a state Jul 28 14:14:19 As for learning to use bitbake, I noticed that the "Compiling it using bitbake" section is half baked. Maybe you could go through and complete it, giving a more rounded tutorial on how to do it. I'm off to learn to use bitbake now, since that section is rather incomplete. Jul 28 14:14:27 mmmm Jul 28 14:14:29 Freemont? Jul 28 14:15:17 Tyrae1: umm... googling Jul 28 14:15:33 arcanericky: i can see what you mean about it being a bit incomplete Jul 28 14:16:16 hum "hello world" wiki page is not very precise Jul 28 14:16:29 Tyrae1: looks like 94555 Jul 28 14:16:46 I lack a very important information (I asked more than twice without getting an answer) Jul 28 14:17:00 How do I do to get a package in the image? Jul 28 14:17:07 No discussion about this brought solutions Jul 28 14:17:07 squalyl: I agree. I've been trying to add to it a bit as I go along (sans bitbake for the moment). What part is not very precise? Maybe I can fix it. Jul 28 14:17:24 the recipe creation Jul 28 14:17:36 where, what to put in, how to locate sources etc Jul 28 14:17:46 not 68025 / 68026? Jul 28 14:18:01 maybe you can mix your page and mine: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Create_a_package_from_existing_sources Jul 28 14:18:16 I only lack the information to get the package in the image. Jul 28 14:18:24 Ah yes. The bitbake part. I'm having trouble with that also - I don't know bitbake, but am trying to learn to update it. Jul 28 14:18:25 no one seems to be able to explain this to me Jul 28 14:18:41 my page may partially help you Jul 28 14:18:44 Tyrae1: i found a couple different for the same place... i really can't be too sure Jul 28 14:19:03 Bryce_Leo: ok tnks Jul 28 14:19:11 Nice page sqalyl! I'll start working through it - it will definitely help me. Jul 28 14:19:43 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Building_a_hello_world_application]] [[Terminal]] [[Sound_Field]] [[Sketchbook]] [[Setup_Devices]] [[Server:A-GPS]] [[Search]] [[Sample_Widget]] [[Sample_Native-Finger_Application]] [[S3c2410_boot_usb]] [[Popup_Menu]] [[Picture_Thumbnail_Field]] and other changes Jul 28 14:20:01 squalyl: are you using mokomakefile? Jul 28 14:20:07 no Jul 28 14:20:12 plain raw build :D Jul 28 14:20:23 haha oh boy Jul 28 14:20:44 (it's just a matter of svn update openmoko;cd build;bitbake openmoko-devel-image ;) ) Jul 28 14:21:32 squalyl: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/User:CesarB/Using_a_local_overlay check that out and see if that helps Jul 28 14:21:59 I checked out Jul 28 14:22:25 I managed to achieve the same with a single local.conf line :) Jul 28 14:22:42 hahaha adding to the rdepends? Jul 28 14:22:57 er... Jul 28 14:23:02 * squalyl checks Jul 28 14:23:42 is that the BBFILE_COLLECTIONS that controls what goes in the rootfs? Jul 28 14:23:56 squalyl: no Jul 28 14:24:10 My only problem is to put my package in the rootfs Jul 28 14:24:14 squalyl: to see what BBFILE_COLLECTIONS is doing check the BitBake manual and the section about collections Jul 28 14:24:15 .ipk build works Jul 28 14:24:48 squalyl: try adding DISTRO_EXTRA_RDEPENDS = "" Jul 28 14:24:51 to your local.conf Jul 28 14:24:59 then do a bitbake task-base -crebuild Jul 28 14:25:14 If you add a BBFILES+= in build/conf/local.conf, then it's done, you don't need to change BBPATH Jul 28 14:25:24 BBPATH is for config files, not for bb files Jul 28 14:25:34 sqalyl: I've gone ahead and added a link to your page at the end of the hello world page for now. Jul 28 14:25:44 thanks Jul 28 14:26:22 squalyl: setup your build env, and do a bitbake on openmoko-devel-image Jul 28 14:26:43 * SpeedEvil ponders. Jul 28 14:26:50 I do this every day :) Jul 28 14:26:52 My problem now is to manage rootfs inclusion. I tried DISTRO_EXTRA_RDEPENDS += "mypackage" but it did nothing new Jul 28 14:27:09 i don't think the += works Jul 28 14:27:15 use just an equals Jul 28 14:27:19 simple = then? Jul 28 14:27:21 yup Jul 28 14:27:23 ok i'll try Jul 28 14:28:01 Hmm, I just acquired another 2 SIM cards :-D Jul 28 14:28:10 hihi Jul 28 14:28:22 hiho Jul 28 14:28:30 heyo Jul 28 14:28:43 hi speedevil Jul 28 14:29:53 squalyl: did you rebuild the task-base after you modified your local.conf? Jul 28 14:30:21 squalyl: http://bec-systems.com/web/content/view/59/9/ have you seen this article? Jul 28 14:33:00 what is task-base? Jul 28 14:33:35 the holy grail Jul 28 14:33:52 lol Jul 28 14:33:56 *g* Jul 28 14:34:03 however, += works, since I use it for BBFILES Jul 28 14:34:15 no taks-base is the collection of packages so that the device boots up with ssh support Jul 28 14:35:09 so what? Jul 28 14:35:21 bitbake task-base will include my package in rootfs? :D Jul 28 14:36:18 bitbake task-base -crebuild will include your package in rootfs Jul 28 14:37:05 then, what's the use of openmoko-devel-image? Jul 28 14:37:32 Bryce_Leo not really Jul 28 14:37:35 squalyl: an image installing task-base? Jul 28 14:37:37 squalyl: openmoko-devel-images bulids the image from your local sources Jul 28 14:37:58 rebuilding the task-base adds your app to get built into the base image Jul 28 14:38:13 no, 'bitbake task-base -crebuild' will rebuild task-base Jul 28 14:38:21 I don't get that point Jul 28 14:38:37 yeah, then i'm confused too, why the two steps? Jul 28 14:39:25 * koen hands people http://www.openembedded.org/user-manual Jul 28 14:39:26 doesn't it just rebuild your task-bakse bb file? Jul 28 14:39:33 http://bec-systems.com/web/content/view/59/9/ Jul 28 14:39:44 At this point you must manually regenerate the task-base ipk file as the system has no way of knowing the contents for task-base have changed as the task-base bb file did not actually change.  The best way to do this is to run "bitbake task-base -crebuild".  Do not run "bitbake task-base -cclean" as this seems to start cleaning packages that are already built.  At this point, if you look at the control file in the task-base Jul 28 14:40:38 I don't catch the difference between openmoko-devel-image and task-base Jul 28 14:41:01 one is an image, the other a task Jul 28 14:41:12 * koen hands people http://www.openembedded.org/user-manual Jul 28 14:41:43 * squalyl thinks that bitbake is far more complicated that he thought Jul 28 14:44:41 koen: i don't see you point. Rebuilding the task base essentially adds whatever you put in DISTRO_PACKAGE_RDEPENDS into the task-base bb file, so why say that "it rebuilds the task base" instead of "it adds your app to get built into the base image" Jul 28 14:44:49 lol bitbake task-base gives me an ipk file Jul 28 14:45:36 Bryce_Leo|food: it adds your DEPENDS in to the ipkg file's Depends: field Jul 28 14:46:31 Bryce_Leo|food: see what happens if openmoko doesn't use task-base anymore for its images Jul 28 14:46:47 koen: why would i pull that out? Jul 28 14:46:48 then you can rebuild task-base all you want, but it won't add your stuff to the image Jul 28 14:47:29 so saying "it rebuilds task-base" is correct, "adds app to image" is misleading Jul 28 14:48:12 this does nothing I want :( Jul 28 14:48:24 koen: perhaps, but for simplicity's sake it's not too bad. I mean isn't task base a bb file? Jul 28 14:48:44 it's a bitbake recipe, yes Jul 28 14:48:55 squalyl: go read http://www.openembedded.org/user-manual Jul 28 14:49:43 koen: and if you read the control file for it it tells you exactly what it does which explains why adding an app DEPENDS and rebuildng task base works? Jul 28 14:50:01 squalyl: this might be of interest: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/openmoko-devel/2007-July/001043.html Jul 28 14:50:30 koen: i'm just arguing that for simplicity it's easier to say that it adds a package to the image because they clearly haven't began experimenting at that level and by the time they do they'll understand the build system much more thoroughly Jul 28 14:50:31 Bryce_Leo|food: reading the control file is pretty useless Jul 28 14:50:51 Merge machine and distro options to create a basic machine task/package Jul 28 14:50:55 that's really all ya need Jul 28 14:50:57 so useful http://www.openembedded.org/user-manual&dpage=commonuse_new_package Jul 28 14:51:06 is anyone able to create a contact properly? Jul 28 14:51:07 then you know what the task-base package does Jul 28 14:51:25 the mailing list thread did not help. Jul 28 14:53:08 koen: we're just arguing details. maybe i just should have explained waht rebuilding the task-base does and why they have to re-build it Jul 28 14:53:22 Woot my neo boots again :) Jul 28 14:53:24 right Jul 28 14:54:13 koen: i do perfer simplicity though Jul 28 14:54:42 I dislike misleading statements that will end up wasting my time Jul 28 14:55:07 when the guys decided to add something to openmoko, how did they did it? Jul 28 14:55:16 take openmoko-rssreader for example Jul 28 14:55:32 where is the bitbake line that tells 'put me in the rootfs' ? Jul 28 14:55:40 koen: when they don't really grasp the fundaments of OE or bitbake it's all the same Jul 28 14:55:45 this seems so simple, no one can say me! Jul 28 14:56:15 Bryce_Leo|food: and those people will write a zillion wikipages containing misleading info Jul 28 14:56:38 koen: and yet people get further with those than people who write no wiki pages with no info Jul 28 14:56:59 you think so? Jul 28 14:57:26 my experience is that they get stuck and ask for help later on Jul 28 14:57:52 koen: if they aren't advanced enough to understand the build system then they'll never remove task-base then they'll never have that problem, we're talking about this one instance not a world of generalaties Jul 28 14:59:00 Has anyone used ipkg on their neo? (if so what repository do you use) Jul 28 14:59:37 calamous1_: I acquired 2 more SIM cards Jul 28 14:59:56 koen: and you argue of misleading wikipages but alteast they're trying and when they eventually find the info they need they'll fix the pages. Jul 28 15:00:10 calamous1_: 1 x 32k Cingular SIM (de-activated I believe) Jul 28 15:00:22 calamous1_: 1 Pay as you Go from a company called "Tracphone Jul 28 15:00:32 whcih you buy from the local walmart Jul 28 15:00:34 Bryce_leo: my experience is that such pages won't get fixed Jul 28 15:01:24 So group links to them, and when the related problem will be fixed, we'll correct all related forgotten pages Jul 28 15:01:30 koen: i guess it all depends. If you keep the people interested so they're still around to learn and develop then they'll fix their pages, but if you don't give them enough to stick with and get hooked on yes they'll leave and not fix/update their wikipages Jul 28 15:01:32 We really need a clear page about building Jul 28 15:02:25 squalyl: the OE usermanual is mtn, send patches Jul 28 15:03:20 usermanual sucks, they never do what you need Jul 28 15:03:43 so you complain it sucks and refuse to improve it? Jul 28 15:03:45 squalyl: now that's not really fair, most usermanauals are quite good if you give the a full reath through Jul 28 15:04:01 koen> no I want to improve them Jul 28 15:04:08 so I try Jul 28 15:04:33 the openmoko artwork in wiki by Nenadgrujicic looks really professional! Jul 28 15:05:16 Noidd: What has your luck with those sims been? Jul 28 15:05:37 jeddy3: link? Jul 28 15:05:44 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Artwork Jul 28 15:05:47 given the number of "bitbake manuals" how do I still block with something as simple as getting a package in the image? because no one is clear enough for beginners. Jul 28 15:05:50 * Bryce_leo sighs... duh Jul 28 15:05:57 Bryce_leo, :D Jul 28 15:06:02 counter Jul 28 15:06:03 (last update 2007-07-27 06:54) http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter : Order https://direct.openmoko.com/ ; Delivered prob. 75% in 2 days 22:26:55 (2.935±2.9 days) (1782;251) Jul 28 15:06:14 squalyl: there's only one bitbake manual, and that's at berlios Jul 28 15:06:59 jeddy3: holy crap, yeah that is good Jul 28 15:10:59 calamous1_: you there? Jul 28 15:11:03 Yes I'm here Jul 28 15:11:12 I just tested a 2G cingular sim Jul 28 15:11:19 same thing ish Jul 28 15:11:19 It worked right? Jul 28 15:11:30 nope Jul 28 15:11:44 now testing a third sim from a pay as you go phone Jul 28 15:11:44 Error 10 or 13? Jul 28 15:11:47 10 Jul 28 15:12:09 I would say that there is a serious problem with the device if lots of sims arent working Jul 28 15:12:40 Since *I* did not buy the cylapso I can't call texas instruments and injuire about it, but FIC can Jul 28 15:12:41 I don't think my tests are fair right now Jul 28 15:13:37 It would be nice to have someone from FIC explain what it dosent work. If it says SIM card not inserted when it really is, it makes me wonder if something has gone wronge Jul 28 15:14:26 AT+CPBS=SM Jul 28 15:14:31 Tell you what makes m,e suspicious of my configuration Jul 28 15:14:40 what? Jul 28 15:14:48 gsmd crashes with the 3G sim on bootup Jul 28 15:14:57 gsmd does not crash with either of the other two sims Jul 28 15:15:07 until I issue the AT+CNUM Jul 28 15:15:11 then it crashes Jul 28 15:15:14 Yes, I have the same problem Jul 28 15:15:18 I'm building the latest version Jul 28 15:15:26 should be able to image it within the hour at this rate Jul 28 15:15:47 can you please specify exactly which sims work and which dont, best with photos to the bugtickett666? Jul 28 15:15:49 Oh are you building the entire openmoko again, or just GSMD Jul 28 15:16:12 because if its all the same manuf. of sims which don't work the solution is propably the same Jul 28 15:16:12 hello Jul 28 15:16:13 i'm trying to compilling «pngbook» to qemu Jul 28 15:16:26 some one has tips? Jul 28 15:16:30 roh: Sure. I have posted that the new at&t 3g "fireball" sims dont work, but the old cingular 2g ones do Jul 28 15:16:36 roh: once I verify that I have the very latest of everything I will do so Jul 28 15:16:37 http://wiki.openmoko.org/images/0/0b/Openmokopreview.jpg Jul 28 15:16:51 roh: I have the numebrs on the sim in the mailling list Jul 28 15:17:11 here is a question: if the sim is de-activated, should it get a different errror message from 10 Jul 28 15:17:54 nenadgrujicic: holy damn Jul 28 15:17:56 that art is awesome Jul 28 15:18:04 thanx Jul 28 15:18:34 you did that? Jul 28 15:18:36 nice job Jul 28 15:18:38 yes ... Jul 28 15:18:49 ah, yeah, I see at the bottom now :) Jul 28 15:18:49 im watching your project Jul 28 15:18:55 my project??? Jul 28 15:19:00 what project? Jul 28 15:19:01 open moko Jul 28 15:19:04 project Jul 28 15:19:21 it very nice, im glad to see open soutce os for handled devices Jul 28 15:19:21 How has the sim been deactivated Jul 28 15:19:30 (sorry for my bad engl ;) ) Jul 28 15:19:30 oh, you mean the community's. I haven't done anything here yet :) Jul 28 15:19:50 nenadgrujicic: that artwork looks like it would integrate well with many common icon styles Jul 28 15:19:51 upgraded phone had new sim card Jul 28 15:19:51 like tango Jul 28 15:19:57 If the service providor just typed in their computer that its service is over it should work fine but when you try to reg the phone on the network it will just say denied Jul 28 15:20:05 The actual sim card should work fine Jul 28 15:20:07 which is why I am saying I don't blieve its a valid test until I can find out what it should return Jul 28 15:20:24 yes it was my primary thing ... Jul 28 15:20:37 [squalyl@dedibox build]$ find tmp/rootfs/ -name "myhello" Jul 28 15:20:37 *nothing* Jul 28 15:20:40 i think this icons can fit on vista, gnome, kde .... Jul 28 15:20:48 bbl Jul 28 15:22:22 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Artwork on wiki Jul 28 15:24:03 a question: Jul 28 15:24:04 how many development tools has openmoko? Jul 28 15:24:34 http://62.75.157.44/openmoko/moko_wire_black.png Jul 28 15:25:32 arw_: I'm pretty sure it has pygtk :) Jul 28 15:25:47 i'm reading the wiki, but i think that i found three or more Jul 28 15:26:02 tree Jul 28 15:26:59 three Jul 28 15:27:20 paroneayea: pygtk? Jul 28 15:27:39 noiddd: I'm stuck. lol. Jul 28 15:28:14 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Wish_List#Python_bindings Jul 28 15:30:30 does clutter come installed by default with openmoko? Jul 28 15:30:50 paron: don't understand your question Jul 28 15:31:04 I mean, the clutter library Jul 28 15:31:09 http://clutter-project.org/ Jul 28 15:31:59 dumb question I guess. I still haven't figured out if 3d acceleration comes enabled by default Jul 28 15:32:05 my phone never shipped :\ Jul 28 15:32:26 paroneayea: ok, thank you Jul 28 15:33:33 paroneayea: i think there is no 3d acceleration in the developer version (the one you can buy at the momment) Jul 28 15:33:39 so clutter makes no sense Jul 28 15:33:44 ah Jul 28 15:36:06 17:32 < paroneayea> my phone never shipped :\ Jul 28 15:36:09 you orderd one? Jul 28 15:36:27 yeah. i just sent an email asking for updates Jul 28 15:36:59 they will arrive in europe on monday Jul 28 15:37:01 i think Jul 28 15:37:35 from where do you come? Jul 28 15:37:38 http://wwwapps.ups.com/WebTracking/processInputRequest?Requester=UPSHome&loc=en_US&HTMLVersion=5.0&tracknum=1Z5VX0386649478929 Jul 28 15:37:39 Based on what? Jul 28 15:37:46 * mmazur from europe and had no shipping emails yet Jul 28 15:37:46 based on this :) Jul 28 15:37:51 mine is in cologne at the momment Jul 28 15:38:00 ~100km from where i live Jul 28 15:38:07 I'm in the US Jul 28 15:38:09 so it will be here on monday obvioulsy :) Jul 28 15:38:17 paroneayea: mh Jul 28 15:38:18 I never got the confirmation email Jul 28 15:38:22 it sounds like everyone else did Jul 28 15:38:29 borg_, I hate you. Jul 28 15:38:34 mmazur: mine is in .nl, waitin in customer Jul 28 15:38:37 customer Jul 28 15:38:39 mmazur: what have i done? :) Jul 28 15:38:42 customs! Jul 28 15:38:49 ScaredyCat, I hate you to. Jul 28 15:39:19 it got delayed in Kentucky... Jul 28 15:39:37 mmazur: from where do you come? Jul 28 15:39:39 now I'll have to pay 20 squillion $ in taxes Jul 28 15:40:28 borg_: did you get hit for taxes? Jul 28 15:40:35 ScaredyCat: no Jul 28 15:40:39 :) Jul 28 15:40:42 should i? Jul 28 15:40:43 lucky Jul 28 15:40:47 probably Jul 28 15:40:51 mh :) Jul 28 15:42:11 we orderd two in one order to safe shipping costs Jul 28 15:42:31 i think it even got cheaper then the shop said at the time we ordered it Jul 28 15:43:20 the shop said something like 100$ shipping costs Jul 28 15:43:23 Subtotal: $600 USD Shipping: $63.16 USD Total: $663.16 USD Jul 28 15:43:35 but we only paid ~60$ Jul 28 15:48:08 YAAAAY Jul 28 15:48:10 got it! Jul 28 15:48:18 [squalyl@dedibox build]$ find tmp/rootfs/ -name "myhello" Jul 28 15:48:18 tmp/rootfs/usr/bin/myhello Jul 28 15:48:41 so it was: bitbake openmoko-devel-image -crebuild Jul 28 15:48:48 * squalyl editing wiki Jul 28 15:50:33 * squalyl happy Jul 28 15:51:28 squalyl: good for you for persisting! feel free to ignore koen at times, he's a brilliant guy, but can be a bit abrasive at times Jul 28 15:52:04 everyone has his weaknesses, mine is that I never read manuals :D Jul 28 15:52:51 All my successes up to now with bitbakes comes from my nioob questions on this chan! Jul 28 15:52:59 so thank you all :) Jul 28 15:54:51 :) Jul 28 15:56:01 Hi, If I only want to build toolchain in oe, which command should I use? Jul 28 15:56:20 bitbake gcc-cross Jul 28 15:56:30 oh cool Jul 28 15:56:32 Thanks Jul 28 15:56:39 hello fellows Jul 28 15:56:52 once I wrote a makefile to get,unpack,build and install cross compilers Jul 28 15:56:55 hello Jul 28 15:58:16 squalyl what benfit it has? Jul 28 15:58:24 anyone got a python program running on their neo? Jul 28 15:58:40 zaery why not? Jul 28 15:58:45 pyhton works on arm Jul 28 15:58:51 oooh, cool Jul 28 15:59:28 woglinde> It makes it easy to build a cross tools chain for any cpu Jul 28 15:59:42 squalyl??? Jul 28 15:59:44 woglinde> similar to crosstools but without glibc Jul 28 16:00:08 I see no benefit Jul 28 16:00:20 there is none for anyone except me :) Jul 28 16:00:21 there are a lot of tools for such task Jul 28 16:00:30 crosstool buildroot and oe Jul 28 16:00:38 yes of course Jul 28 16:00:58 it mainly helped me to understand how it works :) Jul 28 16:01:24 bugger Jul 28 16:01:30 zaery you maybee want read this http://zecke.blogspot.com/2007/06/pythong-bindings-where-is-source.html Jul 28 16:01:32 missed all that Jul 28 16:12:39 borg_: they were going to use FEDEX. Jul 28 16:12:47 borg_: they eventually went with UPS. Jul 28 16:12:53 borg_: which was cheaper. Jul 28 16:13:04 ok :) Jul 28 16:18:36 /quit Jul 28 16:19:03 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Create_a_package_from_existing_sources]] [[User_talk:Speedevil]] [[Talk:Artwork]] Jul 28 16:29:26 SpeedEvil: F*ing fedex stole a package from me Jul 28 16:30:11 * freelock wonders how much disk space it takes to build an openmoko image Jul 28 16:30:24 freelock: some 10G Jul 28 16:30:27 3 days in a row, it's failed to build because I've run out... Jul 28 16:30:33 * squalyl running du -h for freelock Jul 28 16:30:40 10G! I cleared out 4G last night... Jul 28 16:30:41 please be patient :) Jul 28 16:30:42 Bryce_leo: tracking: 12:34 - we stole it - hahaha. Jul 28 16:30:57 freelock i would assume about 12-14gb total Jul 28 16:31:02 freelock > yeah it's multi GB Jul 28 16:31:23 Yikes. I'm going to need to get an external drive set up for that... Jul 28 16:31:36 (this is really huge :D) Jul 28 16:31:39 SpeedEvil: lol not quite, it hung in TN for 4 days after it was recieved and on top of that, it went in at 7.6 came to me at 2.4 Jul 28 16:31:57 * squalyl thinking of the disk space needed to build an entire fedora core from source :D Jul 28 16:32:25 better think about debian Jul 28 16:32:30 lol Jul 28 16:32:33 and all archs Jul 28 16:32:37 there you go Jul 28 16:32:39 :) Jul 28 16:33:06 You know, I'd really like to be able to just focus on a few packages at a time... Jul 28 16:33:12 It uses 12G here Jul 28 16:33:17 but you have luck sparc32 is removed Jul 28 16:33:22 so one arch lesser Jul 28 16:33:37 Is there a guide to setting up what might be necessary to get an environment set up to build an ipkg file without the entire image? Jul 28 16:33:59 12G. no wonder I haven't gotten it to build... Jul 28 16:34:05 I guess running bitbake will not build the entire distro :) Jul 28 16:34:33 squalyl no. worse.. all dependencys for and then Jul 28 16:34:45 run bitbake -g Jul 28 16:34:57 and look at the dependcies-graph Jul 28 16:35:24 CEO of O2 on 3G uptake on R4 ATM Jul 28 16:35:27 radio4 - uk Jul 28 16:36:19 Can qemu run as the same arch that Neo does? Jul 28 16:36:36 (so that if you compile for the Neo, you don't have to recompile for a qemu image) Jul 28 16:36:42 qemu emulates an arm Jul 28 16:36:49 and runs the rootfs image Jul 28 16:37:02 without any change Jul 28 16:37:47 Great Jul 28 16:40:15 so, what do you think of this now? http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Create_a_package_from_existing_sources Jul 28 16:41:25 I explained everything, every blocking point for me. Anything to add, clarify, correct? Jul 28 16:42:43 it's full of crap and needlesly duplicates info Jul 28 16:43:12 never *ever* set SRCDATE=now inside a recipe Jul 28 16:43:27 just rebuilding the image won't magically include your package Jul 28 16:43:47 the sample recipes don't conform to the style guide Jul 28 16:44:01 the smaple recipes aren't even valid due to improper quoting Jul 28 16:44:42 is arm926ejs armv4 or armv5? Jul 28 16:44:53 richard: 926ejs is armv5 Jul 28 16:44:59 Richard: armv5te Jul 28 16:45:07 richard: but neo1973 is arm920 == armv4 Jul 28 16:45:15 no Jul 28 16:45:22 it's arm920t Jul 28 16:45:26 which is armv4t Jul 28 16:45:30 yes, with thumb ;) Jul 28 16:45:48 Thanks, LaFOrge and Koen. Jul 28 16:46:42 who cares about thumb anyway Jul 28 16:47:08 EABI Jul 28 16:47:15 koen> OK, thanks for the help -_- Jul 28 16:47:22 nice to see your constructive critisim koen Jul 28 16:47:39 koen: I thought more about as in 'who uses it in the linux world' Jul 28 16:47:59 EABI is soft things or hardware things? Jul 28 16:48:11 LaF0rge: due to eabi mandating 'bx', a lot of people Jul 28 16:48:38 squalyl: imho it doesn't duplicate, it just replaces the badly done previous stuff Jul 28 16:49:14 The only thing I duplicate is the instructions to get an OM build tree. I can remove that. Jul 28 16:49:29 I'd keep it... Jul 28 16:49:38 ok Jul 28 16:49:47 unless you want for force somone to go to the other page ;) Jul 28 16:49:51 About the recipe syntax, please notice that it's not designed to be included in the openmoko tree, but rather to be kept as a local overlay Jul 28 16:49:52 squalyl: you also duplicate a lot of sections in http://www.openembedded.org/user-manual Jul 28 16:49:58 in a *bad* way Jul 28 16:50:17 that openembedded stuff is fucked up Jul 28 16:50:24 squalyl: writing invalid syntax is wrong, whichever way you load it Jul 28 16:50:32 so what do you suggest? Jul 28 16:50:54 Where am I incorrect ? Jul 28 16:51:17 in almost the complete page Jul 28 16:51:27 my conclusion is "it works" but if you can improve the thing, you're welcome ! Jul 28 16:51:48 I only written what I found with my limited knowledge of all this stuff Jul 28 16:51:59 *wrote Jul 28 16:52:56 If the wrong part is about versionning etc... then I can remove it, it's not important in this page. Jul 28 16:54:22 SpeedEvil: did he say anything of note? Jul 28 16:54:32 zWho? Jul 28 16:54:40 o2 ceo Jul 28 16:54:41 oh Jul 28 16:54:54 Umm. Jul 28 16:55:16 600e/year of non-SMS data traffic revenue Jul 28 16:55:24 was about it Jul 28 16:55:38 hurrumph Jul 28 16:55:42 600Me Jul 28 16:56:09 How big, physically is the neo? Would it fit in a pocket? Jul 28 16:56:20 Of a skater? Sure. Jul 28 16:57:03 (script) openmoko-community: Sean Moss-Pultz Re: What happened to the order? Jul 28 16:57:44 do skaters have bigger pockets? Jul 28 16:59:05 Yes, they do. Jul 28 16:59:10 It's big, but not ginormous Jul 28 16:59:12 big enough for a small car Jul 28 17:01:01 Big enough to swipe a case of beer from a store without anyone noticing. Jul 28 17:01:23 They should list that as a feature. Jul 28 17:06:17 bye, good evening everyone :) Jul 28 17:10:50 bye Jul 28 17:10:56 erm.. gah Jul 28 17:17:03 (script) openmoko-community: Sean Moss-Pultz Re: OpenMoko future. Jul 28 17:57:08 anyone sit on here talking about the SH1 they received? Or is everyone playing with theirs? Jul 28 17:57:54 There are a few who have. Jul 28 17:57:57 10? Jul 28 18:06:35 how would i compile "hello.cpp" for my neo, for my laptop, the command is "g++ hello.cpp", but thats for pentiums Jul 28 18:06:50 arm-linux-g++ hello.cpp ? Jul 28 18:06:59 ill try that, thx Jul 28 18:10:25 -sh: arm-linux-g++: not found Jul 28 18:10:29 is all i get Jul 28 18:11:09 Then you need a cross-compiler built and installed. Jul 28 18:11:11 And cross libraries. Jul 28 18:11:33 Which mokomakefile builds, though you probably have to path-hack to use them. Jul 28 18:11:45 Or your distro might provide them, though watch out for arm-eabi vs arm stuff. Jul 28 18:12:21 do you know if ubuntu 7.04 provides them? Jul 28 18:14:15 zaery: I don't believe it does, but you could search synaptic. Also see http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/openmoko-devel/2007-June/000995.html Jul 28 18:14:40 zaery: try here: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=360877 Jul 28 18:15:52 zaery: nm no good info there Jul 28 18:16:31 * mmazur wants phone :( Jul 28 18:16:47 * mokobot hands ScaredyCat Jason1's neo Jul 28 18:17:15 zaery: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/User_talk:Michaelshiloh Jul 28 18:17:28 zaery: this is everything you need to setup the entire build system Jul 28 18:18:08 cool, thx Jul 28 18:18:10 bah, out of disk space with build Jul 28 18:18:29 how much space should I dedicate? 8G is not enough - how about 80G? Jul 28 18:18:35 then check out http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Create_a_package_from_existing_sources to get you started. It's useful if you don't know OE or bitbake and are kind of lost. Koen hates it, but it's a good kickstart, however nothing substitues for learning Open Embedded Jul 28 18:18:41 I'm not at work so can't do a df on my machine there Jul 28 18:18:44 noiddd: i'd dedicate 15 gb Jul 28 18:19:43 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Talk:Hear_Me_FIC]] [[Create_a_package_from_existing_sources]] [[Main_Page/ro]] [[OpenMoko_Local_Groups:_Vienna]] [[Wish_List_-_Hardware]] [[Artwork]] [[Talk:Artwork]] [[P1_Owners]] [[User:Nenadgrujicic]] Jul 28 18:20:59 noiddd: Did you add the "delete temporary build files" setting to your local.conf? Jul 28 18:25:13 HI abraxa_ :) Jul 28 18:25:52 Wow... it appears that I managed to get my source packaged up and included on the image. Very exciting Jul 28 18:26:12 (I'm still not quite sure *how* I did it, but I figure that if I don't touch anything it'll keep working) Jul 28 18:26:15 SpeedEvil - BTW: The /sys/.../gsm-power thing only asks the gsm module to not consume any power on GTA01. The gsm module is AFAIK connected straight to the battery. Jul 28 18:27:43 * Elrond gets some food. Jul 28 18:34:48 jgm: haha congrats to ya! Jul 28 18:35:57 * BryceLeo sighs Jul 28 18:36:06 it's always a weird day when X crashes Jul 28 18:36:49 Yep. Jul 28 18:44:00 Elrond: Wow, you're already home? That was fast :) Jul 28 18:58:58 hm Jul 28 19:01:45 abraxa_ - NooN still needs some time ;-) Jul 28 19:03:59 hello Jul 28 19:04:32 allo Jul 28 19:04:45 Please don't let this man torture me. Jul 28 19:07:57 Elrond: Classic. :D Jul 28 19:08:03 And heya noon! Jul 28 19:09:09 jep. back at home, finally Jul 28 19:12:42 hmpf. buildhost did not rebuild openmoko-panel-mainmenu :-( Jul 28 19:22:10 has gtk some sort of alphachannel? Jul 28 19:22:46 hm yes Jul 28 19:22:51 but dont know for 100% Jul 28 19:25:27 are there any more openmoko irc channels? Jul 28 19:26:39 noon http://plan99.net/~mike/blog/?p=38 Jul 28 19:26:47 noon: that should cover what you want Jul 28 19:26:47 frostshoc only for fic employees I guess Jul 28 19:26:59 Frostshoc why you are aksing? Jul 28 19:27:28 just woundering Jul 28 19:27:33 * BryceLeo will brb Jul 28 19:27:46 Frostshoc about what? Jul 28 19:28:20 dunno.. :) Jul 28 19:28:43 im really interested in coding for openmoko.. to bad the phone isnt usable :P Jul 28 19:29:14 hm? Jul 28 19:29:26 its useable for codin Jul 28 19:29:27 g Jul 28 19:29:30 the stylus have to be embedded for me to be able to use it Jul 28 19:30:35 will drive me nuts, missplacing it.. it has to attach to the phone :P Jul 28 19:32:28 whats the plan for downloaded apps/installation directories? Jul 28 19:34:16 Frostshoc: you can attach it with a string to your phone, then you won't lose it :P Jul 28 19:35:02 frosthoc backend ipkg Jul 28 19:35:09 fronend graphical Jul 28 19:35:16 frontend Jul 28 19:36:27 ok Jul 28 19:36:49 anyone working on a sdk? Jul 28 19:38:14 BryceLeo: I want something for compilers and optimization? Jul 28 19:38:49 Frostshoc: tie it to your mittens.. Jul 28 19:39:21 ScaredyCat: now that wouldnt be very practical Jul 28 19:40:10 Frostshoc: there are those flip-down stylus rings. Jul 28 19:40:28 rubberbands? Jul 28 19:40:33 No. Jul 28 19:40:53 Ring on your finger, with a little 3cm stylus on it. Jul 28 19:41:05 Stylus flips down and extends beyond finger. Jul 28 19:41:08 hehe Jul 28 19:41:48 someone should construct "openmoko-sdk.tar.gz" Jul 28 19:41:49 yeah, you could also use it to inject poison into people Jul 28 19:41:56 Well, my fingernail work fine as stylus. ;-) Jul 28 19:42:53 touch openmoko-sdk.tar.gz Jul 28 19:43:23 noon: i thought you were looking for alpha channel?> Jul 28 19:44:11 anyone know when they'll have case dimensions and spec up, that way hardware mods can get started? Jul 28 19:44:44 Sounds like when someone gets out the micrometer. Jul 28 19:44:48 wget http://www.openmoko.org/openmoko-sdk.tar.gz;tar -zxf openmoko-sdk.tar.gz;cd openmoko.sdk.tar.gz;make Jul 28 19:44:56 now shouldnt that be great? Jul 28 19:45:05 SpeedEvil: you're kidding me.... Jul 28 19:45:25 SpeedEvil: that's ludacris, so the whole f*ing device is open but the case design? Jul 28 19:45:40 is wanting to put in a stylus holder such a bad thing Jul 28 19:45:51 gaffers tape only does so much Jul 28 19:46:58 http://www.the-gadgeteer.com/review/finger_tip_styli_comparison_review Jul 28 19:47:12 The software is open. Jul 28 19:47:15 The hardware is not. Jul 28 19:48:32 id rather use a screwdriver Jul 28 19:49:57 have anyone in this channel done anything useful yet? Jul 28 19:50:42 I am about to put MIDP2 support in openembedded Jul 28 19:50:53 hi Stephmw Jul 28 19:51:00 Umm... sorry this is IRC. If people were doing something useful they wouldn't be here, would they? Sheesh... Jul 28 19:51:12 jgm ftw Jul 28 19:51:14 hey, hey Jul 28 19:51:17 :P Jul 28 19:51:35 woglinde: things going well with Guillaume? Jul 28 19:51:50 stephmw yes Jul 28 19:52:08 we have spotted same issues with qt Jul 28 19:52:12 and solved them Jul 28 19:52:19 I am now testing with gpe image Jul 28 19:52:29 and than I will check the rest Jul 28 19:52:33 in Jul 28 19:52:48 woglinde: great - I have 2 weeks of work left, so I'll finish just in time to enjoy all your hard work :) Jul 28 19:54:08 woglinde: nice Jul 28 20:13:32 BryceLeo: I'am but the article you gave me covers compilers. or didn't I get it? Jul 28 20:14:20 noon: http://plan99.net/~mike/files/alphademo.c Jul 28 20:14:50 noon: that code should give you a good run down Jul 28 20:15:04 noon: there is a python version if you interested Jul 28 20:15:33 yes, I'm. Jul 28 20:15:45 pygtk is nice and easy :-) Jul 28 20:16:33 noon: haha yes it is isn't it Jul 28 20:18:27 if you put some glade into the soupe and only do a 'normal' application without fancy graphics, it is Jul 28 20:19:23 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[640x480]] [[Artwork]] [[Talk:Openstreetmap]] [[Talk:Hear_Me_FIC]] [[User_talk:Abraxa]] [[Hardware:Neo1973:Alternate_Cases:Extra_storage]] [[Hardware:Neo1973:Alternate_Cases:Digital_gaming]] [[Create_a_package_from_existing_sources]] Jul 28 20:19:33 i've never actually used glade... Jul 28 20:19:47 but i'd imagine so Jul 28 20:20:58 glade is really nice. like borland builder you can 'click' your gui together and the rest are callbacks to python Jul 28 20:21:52 that sounds nice, i've never really had a problem designeing by hand Jul 28 20:23:30 it's not a problem, but it makes the designing easier and faster. there is an editor to make the xml for glade. so you can see what you do Jul 28 20:24:30 noon: that's a pretty neat tool, i've always been old school with my design tools, emacs works wonders for a project and if i'm just editing a couple files vi is great Jul 28 20:34:18 BryceLeo: vi(m) is my editor of choice. I like it Jul 28 20:34:42 noon: vim is a good editor, i'm still a big emacs fan though Jul 28 20:35:32 emacs all the wat Jul 28 20:35:35 way Jul 28 20:35:46 vim here Jul 28 20:35:52 over emacs Jul 28 20:36:44 <-- shuts up befor there is an other editor war Jul 28 20:36:51 hahahaha, woahhh i didn't want an editor war Jul 28 20:37:16 heh Jul 28 20:37:21 i'm pretty much editor agnostic, i like a little bit from each Jul 28 20:37:48 i think the editor you know is the one thats best Jul 28 20:38:21 i suppose emacs does a vi-mode but it doesnt take the important stuff last i tried it Jul 28 20:38:22 * Elrond looks around .oO(war? Where's my elvenblade? ;o) ) Jul 28 20:38:44 Elrond: How was the meeting with mickey|NeoMeetin? Jul 28 20:38:45 important to me i mean Jul 28 20:39:00 hihi Jul 28 20:39:12 stefan_schmidt - Very nice :-)) Jul 28 20:39:27 Elrond: How do you like the new GUI? Jul 28 20:39:36 * stefan_schmidt likes it a lot Jul 28 20:39:53 Still many rough edges but much better to use with a thumb Jul 28 20:40:12 stefan_schmidt - It's much better. But I think, the stylus apps shouldn't die out. :) Jul 28 20:40:21 orzo_: i know what you mean Jul 28 20:40:41 Elrond: For sure not. Just the essential stuff must be finger based Jul 28 20:41:09 stefan_schmidt - Yep. pavel and I knew that for months. ;o) Jul 28 20:41:21 Elrond: Sliding the list with the thumb is kicking ass. :) Jul 28 20:41:31 Hallelujah! Jul 28 20:41:35 Elrond: We know that, too. :) Jul 28 20:41:56 stefan_schmidt - Some people didn't ;o) Jul 28 20:42:14 stefan_schmidt: does the scrolling also work from left<->right? Jul 28 20:42:55 noon: We have no windows bigger then the screen wide atm Jul 28 20:43:02 noon: :) Jul 28 20:43:35 noon: I would need to ask chris for details on it. But good question. Jul 28 20:43:43 stefan_schmidt - mickey was a bit surprised how useable (from speed point of view) python/pygtk is on the device. :-) Jul 28 20:44:03 Elrond: heh, he loves python Jul 28 20:44:39 Elrond: How many people were there? Jul 28 20:44:53 hehe, he didn't admit his love to python. ;-) Jul 28 20:45:06 three humans, one elv ;o) Jul 28 20:45:19 heh Jul 28 20:45:53 Elrond: are you sure there where 3 _humans_? Jul 28 20:46:39 noon - Somewhat. ;-) Jul 28 20:52:21 does somebody knows when mickey is back? Jul 28 21:47:57 how do I make a patch with binary data in svn? Jul 28 21:49:48 .diff can't handle binary data. Just .tar.gz the binary parts. Jul 28 21:50:22 Hm, that's an interesting question, since svn handles binary diffs internally. Jul 28 21:50:37 I wonder if they allow you to extract/apply binary patches unrelated of the repo Jul 28 21:51:34 svn diff --help Jul 28 21:51:35 ? Jul 28 21:52:10 ello' moko nuts Jul 28 21:52:38 Hey Linux_Galore Jul 28 21:55:11 * ScaredyCat screams Jul 28 21:55:40 why oh why do people call it Asterix .... Jul 28 21:55:50 it's not difficult to get right Jul 28 21:55:59 asterisk damit! ;) Jul 28 21:56:00 * Jul 28 21:56:03 thats it- Jul 28 21:56:32 I _did_ have a very hard time with in the beginning though, "asterisk" exists in Swedish but is not very common thing to say Jul 28 21:56:49 asterix is much more common.. we have another word for * instead of asterisk Jul 28 21:56:58 thats much more popular basically Jul 28 21:57:45 Hello Master Jul 28 21:59:18 yeah, but in the beginning it was excuseable, but it's been round for an age now... and quite frankly, if you're recommending something, you should actually know what it is Jul 28 22:00:23 Does anyone know the exact model of the gsm digital base band ? (HERCOM400G2 ?) Jul 28 22:01:26 when I see the word Asterix that brings back memories Jul 28 22:02:13 days in the forrests of France? Jul 28 22:02:25 =) Jul 28 22:03:05 naw, fighting romans eating wild boar travelling the oceans Jul 28 22:03:19 wait!........ Jul 28 22:03:44 [pause] Jul 28 22:03:57 [ctrl] [break] Jul 28 22:07:17 Jul 28 22:07:29 * Linux_Galore kicks router Jul 28 22:09:32 * ScaredyCat plugs those cables back in Jul 28 22:18:34 "PKG DELAY-ADD'L SECURITY CHECK BY GOV'T OR OTHER AGENCY- BEYOND UPS CONTROL" Jul 28 22:18:59 Psi_ ? Jul 28 22:19:01 * Psi_ waves fist at them, leave my phone alone! Jul 28 22:19:18 its the latest tracking stage for my phone Jul 28 22:19:23 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Artwork]] [[Create_a_package_from_existing_sources]] [[OpenMoko_under_QEMU_on_MacOSX]] Jul 28 22:19:26 wHERE INOT? Jul 28 22:19:31 Where into? Jul 28 22:19:40 psi Jul 28 22:20:01 ya Jul 28 22:20:20 Into which country is it being shipped? Jul 28 22:20:23 NZ Jul 28 22:21:17 :o Jul 28 22:21:26 anyone else who is getting it shipped intl get that ? Jul 28 22:21:26 must think it's a bomb.. Jul 28 22:21:55 you'll get the bits after it's been safely detonated... Jul 28 22:21:59 heh Jul 28 22:22:49 Naah. They've learned from the internet. Jul 28 22:23:03 To test if a package is safe they just try to blend it. Jul 28 22:23:11 heh Jul 28 22:24:30 ive often wondered if they take the battery out before blending stuff, i mean LiPo's do tend to explode if you puncture them Jul 28 22:25:16 Explode is a bit of an exaggeration. Jul 28 22:25:36 They get very hot and may burst into flames. Jul 28 22:25:50 yeah Jul 28 22:26:06 But, if you actually blended one along with other stuff, you will break it up into lots of bits, and dilute it, so it may not get that warm. Jul 28 22:26:24 but large, very hot and menacing looking flames though Jul 28 22:26:54 tnt_: that info is under nda probably also :p Jul 28 22:27:01 Consider that you're releasing - in the neos case - some 15000J. Jul 28 22:27:05 If you blended it. Jul 28 22:27:14 The total weight is some 200g. Jul 28 22:27:31 The heat capacity will be around 500J/Kg/K Jul 28 22:27:56 Or 100J/Neo/K Jul 28 22:28:20 So - maybe 150C or so. Jul 28 22:28:42 Probably not enough to set it on fire. Jul 28 22:29:43 * SpeedEvil wonders if he should add a 'How to blend a Neo safely' page to the wiki. Jul 28 22:29:54 heh Jul 28 22:29:59 dont blend a neo Jul 28 22:30:58 i laugh though, if someone tried and it jammed/blewup the blender. Neo 1 , iPhone 0 Jul 28 22:41:50 heh Jul 28 22:42:11 Psi_: the ipod they blended was powered on Jul 28 22:42:19 oh, true Jul 28 22:42:36 except it didnt look very real to me, it stayed lit up for ages Jul 28 22:54:03 did the wiki get its userbase nuked? Jul 28 22:54:09 looks like my user doesnt exist anymore? Jul 28 22:54:22 Shouldn't have. Jul 28 22:54:50 * LetoTo founds his other username at the history of the page Jul 28 22:55:37 case sensitiev usernames suck :P Jul 28 22:57:53 I've read in this channel that you were talking about a new user interface... any screenshot? Jul 28 22:57:55 bl-4c works in the neo! Jul 28 22:58:07 (the default battery overdrained even though i turned it "off") Jul 28 22:58:17 thankfully i have a nokia 6103i... Jul 28 23:01:58 * Psi_ adds this PKG DELAY-ADD'L SECURITY CHECK thing to the wiki shipping FAQ Jul 28 23:02:25 Hallelujah! **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Jul 28 23:27:25 2007 Jul 28 23:41:05 what does "lab host" mean? Jul 29 00:06:15 Moko artwork: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Artwork = WOW! Jul 29 00:06:45 OMG, your right. that's hot Jul 29 00:08:23 not bad :) Jul 29 00:09:49 mm raytracing Jul 29 00:10:15 not bad? Jul 29 00:10:18 c'mon! Jul 29 00:10:47 even the average joe will want the neo! Jul 29 00:12:26 ok... well; LAME Jul 29 00:12:43 http://wwwapps.ups.com/WebTracking/processInputRequest?Requester=UPSHome&loc=en_US&HTMLVersion=5.0&tracknum=1Z5VX0380251715251 .... this makes no sense to me Jul 29 00:12:50 supposed to go to Denver, CO US Jul 29 00:13:07 but nooo, UPS is stupid Jul 29 00:13:25 hehe Jul 29 00:13:41 highly annoying Jul 29 00:13:42 daMaestro: You live in Devner? I used to live there Jul 29 00:13:47 ChooseOpen, yes Jul 29 00:14:21 i payed for 2nd day air, yet it is going to take 5-6 days and they are "flying" my phone all around the US Jul 29 00:14:29 fscking POS UPS Jul 29 00:14:37 LMAO Jul 29 00:15:15 anyone doing work on the clock? Jul 29 00:15:16 h1voltage: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (and also SH1_FAQ, Neo1973, Developer_preview and Neo1973_Hardware#GTA01Bv4 pages) (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) Jul 29 00:15:16 Des Moines is a nice place to tour! Jul 29 00:15:21 hehe! Jul 29 00:16:41 anybody know the customs charges for the UK? Jul 29 00:16:57 It depends. Jul 29 00:17:04 The basic customs charges are 6% Jul 29 00:17:15 then you've got VAT at 17.5% on top of that. Jul 29 00:17:33 Plus, in some cases, there is an additional payment to the courier company to collect this fee from you. Jul 29 00:18:08 Call it 40 quid or so. Jul 29 00:20:03 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Artwork]] [[P1_Owners]] [[SH1_FAQ]] [[Getting_OpenMoko_working_on_host_with_Xoo]] [[Mokopedia]] Jul 29 00:22:51 only 17.5%? Jul 29 00:22:53 wow Jul 29 00:25:32 yes trackingnumber received Jul 29 00:25:42 Yeah, was expecting around £40 charges Jul 29 00:26:20 and still in memphis ;-) Jul 29 00:26:27 I am unsure if it actually theoretically needs duty. Jul 29 00:26:38 Being not a functional mobile phone. Jul 29 00:26:42 But... Jul 29 00:27:50 I was hoping it wouldn't be shipped as "mobile phone" but as "mobile open development platform hardware" or something, haha Jul 29 00:31:00 http://www.xkcd.com/281/ Jul 29 00:31:51 Or nonfunctional mobile phone Jul 29 00:43:13 stefan: you are crazy! 660 x 1278 ?? Jul 29 00:43:27 * LetoTo looks at half a neo on his screen :P Jul 29 00:48:37 oh, i guess that was the only way to get 640x480 on it? Jul 29 01:11:33 kinda quiet in here tonight... Jul 29 01:11:47 everybody must be busy tapping on their Neos Jul 29 01:15:05 * quinton is a happy hacker Jul 29 01:25:15 ChooseOpen: i am just waiting all the time ;) Jul 29 01:25:28 *f5* *wait* *f5* *wait* *f5* ... Jul 29 01:25:51 looks like ups doesnt do anything on sunday at 3.25 Jul 29 01:25:52 8) Jul 29 01:27:09 borg_: that sucks Jul 29 01:32:22 dang, saw the BT discussion on the list -- and I'm wondering how we could have a whole devel team of linux geeks who don't use BT? :-o Jul 29 01:32:33 core devel team, I mean Jul 29 01:32:42 * vallor wants to ship them BT headsets Jul 29 01:33:54 or even: Jul 29 01:33:56 http://www.amazon.com/Motorola-HS850-Bluetooth-Headset-Packaged/dp/B0007WWAGI/ref=pd_bbs_sr_2/103-1336461-2617444?ie=UTF8&s=wireless&qid=1185672799&sr=8-2 Jul 29 01:34:10 32 bucks at amazon for a decent headset Jul 29 02:04:30 I bought my first BT dongle today, for future Neo use... Jul 29 02:05:48 I must say, I'm not impressed with Motorola's headsets so far. Jul 29 02:05:59 But Jabra BT500 ++, as well as the BT620. Jul 29 02:06:05 Though the state of A2DP on linux is SAD Jul 29 02:06:38 Aria: I would hope that having a nice open handheld like the Neo would get devs more interested in improving it Jul 29 02:06:53 Indeed. Jul 29 02:07:06 Though I'm not sure how many devices actually use that profile right now. Jul 29 02:07:14 (and it's sad that BT just can't send regular PCM) Jul 29 02:20:03 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Neo1973_Battery_Charger]] [[Wish_List_-_Hardware]] [[P1_Owners]] [[Getting_Started_with_your_Neo1973]] Jul 29 02:26:27 hey all Jul 29 02:27:25 I'm feeling kind of silly, but how does one get ones own binaries included in the qemu image? on your own machine? Jul 29 02:29:21 the wiki for MokoMakefile is simply not clear at all, directing me to an openembedded wiki page, then back to itself without explaining what one should do with the binaries made by following the oe link. Jul 29 02:32:25 Orrrr.... I could talk to thin air. Jul 29 02:33:14 heh. Jul 29 02:33:22 ZerothCloned: maybe try #oe? Jul 29 02:33:32 (although, that looks dead as well.) **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sun Jul 29 02:59:56 2007