**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Jul 30 02:59:57 2007 Jul 30 03:01:36 i use ~/svn/openmoko like for every project.. Jul 30 03:06:13 oo, build completed! Jul 30 03:06:47 good night, all! Jul 30 03:06:56 what type of payment does openmoko.com take? Jul 30 03:08:29 credit cards. Jul 30 03:09:09 word. Jul 30 03:10:52 SpeedEvil: are the developer (neo advanced) kits shipping? Jul 30 03:11:40 yes Jul 30 03:12:05 * ljp plays with the lazer pointer Jul 30 03:12:08 Not at the moment - they have run out of stock at the moment. When more will be available is unclear. Jul 30 03:12:18 ah Jul 30 03:12:20 thx. Jul 30 03:14:27 heya StylusEater Jul 30 03:15:30 i just made firefox home page theme Jul 30 03:15:34 http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v690/d_vesser/LinuxShots/?action=view¤t=Openmako_theme.png Jul 30 03:15:34 Lounge_: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (and also SH1_FAQ, Neo1973, Developer_preview and Neo1973_Hardware#GTA01Bv4 pages) (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) Jul 30 03:15:42 hi j... how goes it? Jul 30 03:16:18 StylusEater, just trying to fix up a few annoying bugs; observing how the platform is shaping up here Jul 30 03:16:23 daMaestro: I saw you in here earlier. You haven't gotten yours yet eh? Jul 30 03:16:23 should be getting my neo tomorrow Jul 30 03:16:41 nice. the basic or "advanced"? Jul 30 03:16:46 tomorrow, assuming UPS didn't hire any incompetent workers here in CO Jul 30 03:16:50 just the basic Jul 30 03:16:57 slick Jul 30 03:17:11 gonna post a short photo/review article? Jul 30 03:17:31 you should join unity-devel for a moment Jul 30 03:17:33 are you going to linuxworld this year? Jul 30 04:01:56 i've got the no-neo blues Jul 30 04:13:06 neo-geo1973... plug in cartriges that play 4 classic pong games in one classic machine Jul 30 04:13:24 and i hope you get your neo soon orzo Jul 30 04:18:49 cesarb: I changed ~/openmoko to ~/moko, cause there is a directory named 'openmoko' below that and that might cause even more confusion. Jul 30 04:21:02 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[MokoMakefile]] [[Application_Development_Crash_Course]] [[Talk:Application_Development_Crash_Course]] Jul 30 04:33:24 moin Jul 30 04:38:59 moin Jul 30 04:39:17 what is moin? Jul 30 04:39:33 morning in casual german Jul 30 04:40:07 ahh, cool. I've always wondered that Jul 30 04:41:04 seems openmoko has a large german community Jul 30 04:41:15 harald welte has a posse ;) Jul 30 04:41:32 haha. yes that explains it Jul 30 04:41:40 is trunk qemu-neo1973 broken? aka does not compile? Jul 30 04:48:50 nevermind, it was me not re-running my configure script, thanks ne wayz :] Jul 30 04:49:05 seriously? like as in wikis the front page is almost always Moin.php or something Jul 30 04:49:39 yes, that's why I was wondering :) Jul 30 04:51:03 Um, two different things. Jul 30 04:51:09 codyl|afk: eh, MoinMoin is a wiki implementation written in python.. Jul 30 04:51:41 Tv: haha, that makes sense :-P Jul 30 04:52:46 so the wiki isn't named after the german word? Jul 30 04:53:15 Possibly. Jul 30 04:53:50 MoinMoin is very much named after the german word Jul 30 04:54:02 As in "Moin, moin" -- like "hello, hello" Jul 30 04:54:23 ha, cool Jul 30 04:54:25 DCC SEND aiufbauibauiebifkbsifjbsefgijb 0 0 0 Jul 30 04:56:22 DCC SEND aiufbauibauiebifkbsifjbsefgijb 0 0 0 Jul 30 05:07:10 If I set the system time on my neo, if forgets the time when it is next rebooted. Does anyone know of a way to set the time in a way that persists through reboots? Jul 30 05:07:38 yes, I have that problem as well Jul 30 05:08:06 one way would be to use gpsd to set time... if required software was available ;-) Jul 30 05:08:30 TZ + ^ Jul 30 05:08:36 Yes, too bad about gpsd... Jul 30 05:14:31 hey guys... i have a riddle for you ;) Jul 30 05:14:33 http://nibbler.geekheim.de/?p=57 Jul 30 05:15:16 have fun comparing your sims to these photos Jul 30 05:15:40 wow you have a lot of sim cards Jul 30 05:15:58 nibbler has ;) Jul 30 05:16:09 oh Jul 30 05:17:00 and thats only a part of his sims.. only one of each type Jul 30 05:17:38 Although the page mentions the problems om folks have been having with SIMs, it does not identify any of the SIMs on that page as working with the neo1973 Jul 30 05:19:00 rtm_ ive used schlumberger ones successfull. to be exact, every sim ive had worked in mine Jul 30 05:21:35 so when you run ./openmoko/download.sh from the qemu-neo1973 directory, does that image it downloads a prebuilt image? or does it use the trunk directory, if not, wheres the wiki page for building your own image from trunk? Jul 30 05:23:30 roh: are you trying to fix that #666 evil bug? :p Jul 30 05:24:07 ynezz we are trying to figure out whats happening. Jul 30 05:24:40 if I were you I would try to ask some of the bug reporters to send me his card with roaming enabled... Jul 30 05:24:40 ynezz then we can fix it Jul 30 05:24:50 and you can send it back ASAP Jul 30 05:25:02 i think it would be easier and faster... Jul 30 05:26:28 i really don't know, you might get good support from TI of course :p Jul 30 05:28:34 bkruse_home: mokomakefile Jul 30 05:29:35 * bkruse_home searchs the wiki Jul 30 05:29:38 rwhitby: thank you Jul 30 05:44:06 just found a cpufreq patch on the net Jul 30 05:44:22 What's that do? Jul 30 05:44:54 clock changes - i.e. 66mhz, 133mhz, 266mhz... Jul 30 05:45:24 Cool (or, I guess warm, depending on the argument) Jul 30 05:46:08 What's the URL for cpufreq? Jul 30 05:46:16 http://www.evolware.org/chri/paciugo/cpufreq.patch - patch is here Jul 30 05:46:28 http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&ct=res&cd=1&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.kernel.org%2Fpub%2Flinux%2Futils%2Fkernel%2Fcpufreq%2Fcpufreq.html&ei=NXutRvDLBJqwecqgjP8F&usg=AFQjCNHEafEgAUvSi59oNwwi3jDisw61fA&sig2=iirfv94bRlDEfT4d5_JQkQ Jul 30 05:46:30 oops Jul 30 05:46:37 http://www.kernel.org/pub/linux/utils/kernel/cpufreq/cpufreq.html Jul 30 05:48:27 does it mean that it can work even at 1MHz? :p Jul 30 05:48:37 according to that patch Jul 30 05:48:50 i wouldn't try it myself ;) Jul 30 05:48:59 i don't think i'd go below 60 Jul 30 05:49:10 since iirc you need that to keep the screen running Jul 30 05:49:27 i guess since i have a debug board i could try running at 67.5 and make sure that works Jul 30 05:50:17 why do you need screen running in your pocket? :) Jul 30 05:50:42 you don't ;) but for those modes you use IDLE anyhow Jul 30 05:50:52 and just wake the cpu when interrupts come in Jul 30 05:51:47 yep Jul 30 05:54:17 btw did you recieved batteries with your advanced pack? Jul 30 05:54:21 yeah i got 2 Jul 30 05:54:27 i've heard that somebody don't :p Jul 30 05:54:39 ouch Jul 30 05:54:44 i've also ordered advanced so I wonder... Jul 30 05:55:56 ynezz the guy found them. just didn't look hard enough the first time Jul 30 05:57:16 lol Jul 30 05:57:37 it must be a huge box then... Jul 30 05:57:54 or he do drugs seriously... Jul 30 05:58:03 haha Jul 30 05:58:24 The box is about the size of a lunch pail. Jul 30 05:59:51 dimensions in something common(like centimeters) would tell me more :) Jul 30 06:00:36 about din-A4 in space and the length of din-A5 high Jul 30 06:01:05 Psi_: you around? Jul 30 06:01:42 hm.. propably a bitt less high.... i don't have one here so i can only guess by remembering Jul 30 06:04:52 ah, not that big Jul 30 06:05:19 its on one of the moko ninjitsu videos Jul 30 06:20:42 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Category:OpenMoko_Local_Groups:_Copenhagen]] [[Application_Development_Crash_Course]] [[User:Writchie]] Jul 30 06:39:31 has anyone had a problem with a high-pitched squeal occuring during calls? I'm restoring to /etc/alsa/handset.state before the call but I can't get rid of the squeal Jul 30 06:45:19 hi, I used the MokoMakefile, after comipling the image I tried to use 'make qemu' to compile and run the emulator. But the Makefile complains abot missing rootfs in /home/moko/images. I found them in /home/moko/build/deploy/images must I copy them to /home/moko/images ?? Jul 30 07:07:26 morning Jul 30 07:07:52 goodnight :) Jul 30 07:16:26 morning Jul 30 07:18:51 * hhf423 yawns Jul 30 07:27:37 Hello Jul 30 07:27:44 yo Jul 30 07:30:18 morning Jul 30 07:34:36 Evenin', hrw! Jul 30 07:42:28 what kind of network does virgin mobile have in the states? Jul 30 07:58:01 hello all :) Jul 30 08:02:19 It is here! Jul 30 08:03:22 mine is out for delivery, but no one to accept it... Jul 30 08:03:41 they change the delivery date early this morning :/ Jul 30 08:04:10 mjr, the phone!?! coool Jul 30 08:11:02 I still haven't heard back since I sent my YES_I_DO reply :/ Jul 30 08:12:54 where can I contact the guy who got openmoko running on an ipaq? Jul 30 08:13:14 because I have a hx4700... Would be cool to run some tests before getting a neo :) Jul 30 08:13:34 squalyl: nowhere, do it yourself? Jul 30 08:13:41 thanks :D Jul 30 08:14:22 squalyl: he didn't do more than bitbake openmoko-devel-image with the right machine set (well he did by adding the recipes for om to oe but they are now present) Jul 30 08:14:41 Do you think changing "fic-gta01" to "hx4700" in local.conf will be sufficient? ^^ Jul 30 08:14:46 (cross) Jul 30 08:15:18 OK you're right the only thing to do is "test" Jul 30 08:15:19 squalyl: probably changing distro to angstrom-SOMENUMBER (2007.1 iirc) Jul 30 08:15:29 as well Jul 30 08:15:32 ok Jul 30 08:19:26 * mjr notes that the probably wholly unnecessary step of backing up the flash is taking a considerable time, when burning with the desire to flash actually working images on the device Jul 30 08:20:43 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[OpenMoko_Local_Groups:_San_Francisco]] [[User_talk:Samon007]] [[OpenMoko_Local_Groups:_Duesseldorf]] Jul 30 08:22:33 mjr, iirc there is no point in doing that Jul 30 08:25:22 FuzzyCat, yes, but that's just me being anal Jul 30 08:26:07 mjr: where are the photos? Jul 30 08:26:08 :) Jul 30 08:26:16 they're uploading into my gallery :þ Jul 30 08:26:53 mornin' Jul 30 08:29:14 http://mjr.iki.fi/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=1772&g2_navId=x3ff9aa2c Jul 30 08:30:09 (yes, the pics suck, but at least I have proof ;) Jul 30 08:30:25 hi all Jul 30 08:32:27 oh, you got the dev pack Jul 30 08:37:05 what does it smell like mjr ? Jul 30 08:37:15 mornin' Jul 30 08:37:20 like... victory Jul 30 08:37:27 :) Jul 30 08:37:33 shit it looks tiny Jul 30 08:37:35 "Starting DFU DOWNLOAD to partition 'kernel' Jul 30 08:37:42 or you have massive hands Jul 30 08:38:15 well, I'm not the smallest guy around Jul 30 08:38:21 FuzzyCat: my thoughts exactly... Jul 30 08:38:23 wouldn't say massive hands tho Jul 30 08:38:57 mjr, you naked? Jul 30 08:38:59 http://mjr.iki.fi/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=1813&g2_serialNumber=2 Jul 30 08:39:11 not quite :] Jul 30 08:39:16 * FuzzyCat shudders Jul 30 08:40:07 "Starting DFU DOWNLOAD to partition 'rootfs'" Jul 30 08:40:26 don't forget to press the aux button every so often Jul 30 08:40:48 it doesn't seem to go off as long as it's up/downloading Jul 30 08:40:56 ahh good Jul 30 08:41:09 that case looks tiny too... Jul 30 08:41:17 are you sure you're noy a giant? Jul 30 08:41:22 it's not very big Jul 30 08:41:26 nah, I'm about 183 cm Jul 30 08:41:32 wide Jul 30 08:41:45 is that one had or 2 ;) Jul 30 08:41:48 hand Jul 30 08:42:32 hmm, I'm not sure if I can bear to take off the plastic screen cover Jul 30 08:43:37 I might *shudder* touch the screen Jul 30 08:44:03 touch the touchscreen :) Jul 30 08:44:16 yeah Jul 30 08:44:19 and all would be lost Jul 30 08:44:47 found out incidentally that my TDK bluetooth module has DFU capabilities as well Jul 30 08:44:56 managed not to flash that Jul 30 08:45:00 * XorA has to keep plastic cover on, just so he can tell difference between bv3 and bv4 Jul 30 08:45:22 my tomtom Go still has it on, and it's 3-4 years old Jul 30 08:45:42 after the first year you don;t ever want to take it off Jul 30 08:46:18 only a few hashmarks left to go Jul 30 08:46:29 oeeeeooooww Jul 30 08:46:40 while you're waiting.. more pics! Jul 30 08:46:52 can't be bothered Jul 30 08:46:57 hurrumph Jul 30 08:47:01 look at my wedding pics in the gallery if you like ;P Jul 30 08:47:11 they did provide 'link' to wiki, nice Jul 30 08:47:17 aloril, yeah Jul 30 08:47:24 Bunny rabbit! Jul 30 08:47:25 "some assembly required" Jul 30 08:48:50 is this you mjr http://mjr.iki.fi/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=179&g2_serialNumber=2 Jul 30 08:48:54 the usb plug is a bit tight Jul 30 08:49:02 my Neo is a virgin ♡ Jul 30 08:49:08 yeah Jul 30 08:50:45 wll, I guess you have the geek beard ;) Jul 30 08:51:23 :] Jul 30 08:51:26 my wife likes it Jul 30 08:51:36 is a bit jealous she can't grow one Jul 30 08:51:47 did I mention my Neo is booting? Jul 30 08:52:10 lol Jul 30 08:52:17 no, you didn't mention it.. Jul 30 08:52:32 but if you took pics, you wouldn't have to Jul 30 08:53:01 which image are you using? a self built one? Jul 30 08:53:08 Jul 30 08:53:22 the one from http://buildhost.openmoko.org/tmp/deploy/images/latest/ Jul 30 08:53:34 isn't that old Jul 30 08:53:48 seems so Jul 30 08:54:03 http://chooseopen.com/openmoko/build/ Jul 30 08:54:38 bugger, wasted a flash cycle Jul 30 08:54:45 now my phone is going to trash fast Jul 30 08:55:17 :o Jul 30 08:56:05 um... didn't they provide new images? at least laf0rge edited SH1 page with link http://buildhost.openmoko.org/tmp/deploy/images/?C=M;O=D Jul 30 08:56:54 28-Jul-2007 08:37 31M Jul 30 08:57:20 so it's just the latest that's broken... Jul 30 08:59:16 well, reflashing Jul 30 08:59:25 I wonder if those images can actually make a call ;) Jul 30 08:59:44 hmm.. u-boot: smdk2440, qt2410, hxd8, gta02v1, gta01bv4, gta01bv3 and gta01bv2 Jul 30 08:59:55 FuzzyCat, I meant that I'm shortening the flash life Jul 30 08:59:58 so what are smdk2440 and qt2410? Jul 30 09:00:10 Though what with uboot not being flashed too often and it being able to boot from sd... Jul 30 09:00:24 aloril: dev boards for s3c24X0 cpus Jul 30 09:00:25 * Stephmw gets buried in the last-2-weeks-of-work-rush-tasks... handovers, wassat? Jul 30 09:00:30 when I woke up this morning .... there was a neo at my door :) Jul 30 09:00:33 aloril: I have an smdk2440 beside me Jul 30 09:00:44 XorA: ah, OK, thanks Jul 30 09:00:50 mjr: this neo only has a lifetime of about 6 months anyway so don't worry too much about the flash :) Jul 30 09:01:07 so no new devices revealed, only previously 'revealed' hxd8 Jul 30 09:01:07 Not really Jul 30 09:01:23 for those of you with a phone, is it reasonable to try and use it as a real phone yet? or still too unstable? Jul 30 09:01:24 jgm, my wife does intend to take it off my hands when I upgrade Jul 30 09:01:56 by the by, I'm positively surprised about its speed. It's not blazing, but I expected worse. Jul 30 09:02:11 cool Jul 30 09:02:35 mjr: if we can get some pretty graphics thanks to the graphics accelerator and some usability in there from the accelerometers I can see that changing Jul 30 09:02:41 cxreg: no Jul 30 09:03:53 rock paper scissors via accellorometer Jul 30 09:04:15 gps + accel could make for some fun real world gaming Jul 30 09:04:19 I mean, gotten used to the usual s60 sluggishness, my quick test says Neo's not worse Jul 30 09:05:02 in theory you could make GTA01B_v04 fly really fast.. but would need to sacrifice some chrome tough Jul 30 09:05:13 Any news from "GTA02" ? Will there be some sales before October mass market ? Jul 30 09:05:24 haha Jul 30 09:05:39 umm, I doubt it Jul 30 09:06:58 mjr, still no Wifi chipset in the current releases ? Jul 30 09:07:01 you know, I have in this process found a killer need for usb2 on the neo Jul 30 09:07:10 the flashing before getting into action takes toooo long Jul 30 09:07:15 *sigh* Jul 30 09:07:33 it's _always_ been no wifi in gta01 Jul 30 09:07:47 ok, I'll wait Jul 30 09:07:49 wifi? Jul 30 09:07:49 Currently sold Neo1973 GTA01B_v04 (P1) doesn't have WiFi, GTA02 (P2) which is scheduled for October will have WiFi with free (libre) drivers (Atheros AR6K): http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ#Q:_What_is_the_rationale_behind_the_exclusion_of_WiFi.3F Jul 30 09:09:01 newsflash: I've reflashed the device Jul 30 09:10:50 hehehe bt initialized Jul 30 09:11:45 it asked for pin! Jul 30 09:13:18 Psi_: you around? <--- am now Jul 30 09:16:00 mjr: did you have sim in it? Jul 30 09:16:02 what was the magic for getting suitable mixer settings for making a call? Jul 30 09:16:03 yes Jul 30 09:16:25 could you enter the pin Jul 30 09:16:25 ? Jul 30 09:16:28 yes Jul 30 09:16:32 :D Jul 30 09:16:36 and I _think_ I made a call, though without sound Jul 30 09:17:30 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973_Audio_Subsystem Jul 30 09:22:21 set query Jul 30 09:22:50 Psi_: what does the tracking for yours say? mine still says Status: Pickup Jul 30 09:22:50 xzcvczxx: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (and also SH1_FAQ, Neo1973, Developer_preview and Neo1973_Hardware#GTA01Bv4 pages) (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) Jul 30 09:25:26 xzcvczx, mine has been stuck on security check for 23 hours Jul 30 09:25:35 but ill check again now, may have changed Jul 30 09:26:32 Psi_: are you able to pm me the link for the tracking just so i can see how detailed it is... dont worry i wont run over to your house when i see its delivered to steal it :P Jul 30 09:26:41 hehe Jul 30 09:26:54 * FuzzyCat would though ;) Jul 30 09:27:10 * xzcvczxx didnt think cats could swim Jul 30 09:27:24 why do you think I am fuzzy Jul 30 09:27:47 seem my awesome pawah!! Jul 30 09:27:52 lol Jul 30 09:27:57 xzcvczx, pm Jul 30 09:28:03 err Jul 30 09:28:07 wrong person Jul 30 09:28:25 ah Jul 30 09:28:36 lol you may have to try pm'ing me the address again if you have already done it as i had to ghost the nick Jul 30 09:28:38 xzcvczx, did you get my PM Jul 30 09:28:44 ok Jul 30 09:29:13 so no i didnt Jul 30 09:29:24 resent Jul 30 09:30:01 hmmm its taking its time Jul 30 09:30:15 anybody know about what RT # they're up to yet? :P Jul 30 09:30:16 you PM me Jul 30 09:30:23 maybe that will start it correctly Jul 30 09:30:38 are you registered? Jul 30 09:30:42 i am Jul 30 09:30:42 with nickserv? Jul 30 09:30:44 and logged in Jul 30 09:30:53 ah, no Jul 30 09:30:56 oh lol Jul 30 09:30:56 forgot about that Jul 30 09:31:00 im used to undernet Jul 30 09:31:49 PM me your email, ill send it to you Jul 30 09:32:36 are you in auckland as well? Jul 30 09:33:16 sent Jul 30 09:33:17 yes Jul 30 09:33:20 mt eden Jul 30 09:33:24 ah ok Jul 30 09:33:55 its about now we find out we are living next door.... Jul 30 09:34:00 :P Jul 30 09:34:10 nah im CBD Jul 30 09:35:46 i could pull out the 200mW red laser and pulse you the URL in morse code on the skytower :P Jul 30 09:35:51 well at least yours has got further than mine Jul 30 09:35:55 lol Jul 30 09:36:35 would be wrong angle im down on high st Jul 30 09:37:56 what does your tracking look like? Jul 30 09:38:02 just the first pickup scan? Jul 30 09:38:30 yeah Jul 30 09:39:11 mine has been sitting at pkg-delay security check bla bla bla for yeah, ~24hours Jul 30 09:39:30 Psi_: which is weird as its export Jul 30 09:39:42 unless they are scared its a bomb or something Jul 30 09:39:46 did you get base or advanced Jul 30 09:39:49 im not even sure they continue to track it once it leaves US, and it may already have done that since the security check probably was an XRAY at the airport just before intl flight Jul 30 09:40:18 so i could already be in NZ, who knows Jul 30 09:40:22 I'm moving to the US next month, I can't wait to encounter US immigration Jul 30 09:40:29 Psi_: well fedex's is better they tell you like airport,plane,airport,depot,delivery Jul 30 09:40:40 ewon: just hope your not on the no-fly list Jul 30 09:40:57 xzcvczx: well I've been there once before, but only short-term Jul 30 09:41:00 they should give you a world map with the points plotted on it, that would look way cooler :P Jul 30 09:41:18 one of the guys on my team did get detained for a few hours, but he made the mistake of having a Morrocan dad. Jul 30 09:41:22 Psi_: some websites do that from UPS on google maps Jul 30 09:42:09 how long was yours sitting at pickup scan for? like right up until the exception? Jul 30 09:42:21 as in did they all pop up at once Jul 30 09:42:53 um.. first i saw it had 3 scans and then quickly moved to where it is now Jul 30 09:43:00 there's a company in the uk that allows you to track exactly where your package is... Jul 30 09:43:24 that the crowd that gave their GPS logs to openstreetmap? ecourier? Jul 30 09:43:33 ya Jul 30 09:44:01 and they have good interfaces too, if you use them.. Jul 30 09:45:00 heh, couriers who are not ignorant fuckwits. Didn't know such a creature existed. Jul 30 09:45:01 http://api.ecourier.co.uk/ Jul 30 09:45:59 openmoko: 03thomas * r2561 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/artwork/themes/openmoko-standard-2/gtk-2.0/gtkbutton: * Fix button label colours Jul 30 09:46:12 wohoo, I placed a call, via libgsmd-tool Jul 30 09:46:21 with audip? Jul 30 09:46:30 audip? Jul 30 09:46:33 s/audip/audio Jul 30 09:46:34 audio Jul 30 09:46:37 ewon: Nice attitude Jul 30 09:46:53 hads: long, hard experience. Jul 30 09:47:10 ye, with audio, though quite too much of it. The phone shouted a high-pitched noise at me and we could barely make each other out Jul 30 09:47:18 Your experience in your part of the world. Jul 30 09:47:19 its about 3AM at San Fransisco Jul 30 09:47:37 I loaded gsmhandset.state before that Jul 30 09:48:00 wonder what the issue is, it was like really severe sound loop Jul 30 09:48:01 its 9:47pm monday here Jul 30 09:48:20 but! it made a call Jul 30 09:49:26 xzcvczx: so it could be some hours before it moves, but maybe not long, I guess it could move even at 5AM Jul 30 09:50:42 xzcvczx, strange that you dont have "BILLING INFORMATION RECEIVED" Jul 30 09:50:52 i got that before the pickup scan Jul 30 09:51:08 mjr: the codec has 99.99% of ways to arrange the mixer which don't produce sound usefully :) Jul 30 09:51:30 mjr: change lm4857 mode to not have stereo speakers Jul 30 09:51:39 alesan: cut hsync or vsync Jul 30 09:51:46 SpeedEvil, yes I've seen how complex it is but I figured by loading that I should be in a "known safe" mode :] Jul 30 09:51:50 ah Jul 30 09:52:05 mjr: when I made that state file I was using a Neo with broken speakers so I had to use the stereo ones, I obviously forgot to disable them after I finished Jul 30 09:52:15 :D Jul 30 09:52:25 mjr, what about GUI dialer? Jul 30 09:52:37 stereo speakers are right beside mic, so feedback like a biaaaatch Jul 30 09:52:50 XorA, yeah, I know. That _would_ explain it Jul 30 09:53:23 gui dialer I think placed a call at least once but with no audio Jul 30 09:53:29 not even feedbacked Jul 30 09:53:46 anyway, off to work now, and taking the sim with me Jul 30 09:54:08 will have to get a cheap prepaid for neo testing until I can use it as my real phone :) Jul 30 09:54:44 mjr: you don't need to do that. Just get playing an mp3 down the line when someone calls you saying 'this phone is temporarily out of service :) Jul 30 09:54:54 Psi_: yeah was thinking that Jul 30 09:55:15 now where _is_ my real phone... Jul 30 09:55:15 i suspect they are just lazy with the scanning :P Jul 30 09:59:07 Psi_: yeah one of my mates was saying it didnt say anything til it had been delivered and all got put up then Jul 30 09:59:18 so it was saying hwere it had been so not very useful Jul 30 09:59:24 arrrgh "THE RECEIVER WAS UNAVAILABLE TO SIGN ON THE 1ST DELIVERY ATTEMPT. A 2ND DELIVERY ATTEMPT WILL BE MADE" Jul 30 09:59:42 that's because you changed the f'ing delivery date you gimps Jul 30 09:59:56 lol Jul 30 10:00:06 * xzcvczx hands ScaredyCat an axe Jul 30 10:00:22 * ScaredyCat uses it.. Jul 30 10:00:37 now I know what the 'U' is for in UPS Jul 30 10:00:51 useless pack of shits Jul 30 10:01:03 aye Jul 30 10:01:09 ups Jul 30 10:01:22 (yay, usbnet and sshing in works) Jul 30 10:01:27 had weird problems at first but turns out it was just that I run the ipmasq package on this host Jul 30 10:01:31 and it had set up some funky iptables Jul 30 10:01:46 anyway, more of that later, now to work Jul 30 10:02:12 (from where I might or might not ssh into the phone to play around anyway) Jul 30 10:02:17 Do UPS fly all their europe-bound stuff from the east coast? Jul 30 10:03:48 i thought they had a hub somewhere central-ish - chicago or detroit maybe? Jul 30 10:04:12 at least 2 packets destined to Finland flied/flying from LOUISVILLE, KY, US Jul 30 10:04:38 I think you mean mine too, 'cause it did Jul 30 10:04:55 after a trip via Sunnyvale and San Jose, CA Jul 30 10:05:10 mjr: yup and mine is currently flying from LOUISVILLE to KOELN, DE Jul 30 10:05:38 all neo should come with redbull then they can deliver themselves Jul 30 10:05:57 'mine' (group order) went from Sunnyvale to Oakland, then to Philidelphia. Jul 30 10:06:10 hmm.. mine did go via Oakland, CA, US, not San Jose, CA Jul 30 10:06:31 Where it's currently sitting. Jul 30 10:06:48 yep, mine went from Louisville to Köln too, then to Helsinki via Stockholm Jul 30 10:07:34 oh yeah, one more check before leaving Jul 30 10:08:22 it _does_ attach somewhat comfortably to the spring-loaded hinge of my freedom mini keyboard Jul 30 10:10:18 counter Jul 30 10:10:19 (last update 2007-07-27 06:54) http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter : Order https://direct.openmoko.com/ ; Delivered prob. 75% in 2 days 00:54:48 (2.038±2.0 days) (1784;251) Jul 30 10:11:48 Oh - it's still in transit to Philidelphia - they just updated the 'arrival scan' field. Hmm. I suppose that means it got moved truck. Jul 30 10:12:22 mine's travelled so far it's got more air miles than me. Jul 30 10:12:53 FuzzyCat: nice :) Jul 30 10:14:07 it looks like all of SH1 has shipped by now according to [[P1_Owners]] page Jul 30 10:14:18 You mean the first 1K? Jul 30 10:14:40 no, first 500 Jul 30 10:14:47 ah Jul 30 10:14:53 unless I'm mistaken about SH1==first 500 Jul 30 10:15:16 aloril: no, SH1 is the first 1000 and possibly even more Jul 30 10:15:28 cesarb: OK Jul 30 10:15:34 aloril: SH1 = first _logical_ shipment, which can be more than a single physical one Jul 30 10:15:43 aloril: it's right there in the intro to the wiki page Jul 30 10:16:10 aloril: (the thing they have in common is the bugs you will have to work around) Jul 30 10:16:28 yeah, I did read that in past, I just thought it would be first 500 ;-) Jul 30 10:16:50 Hmm. Jul 30 10:17:10 anyway, I think first 500 have shipped by now Jul 30 10:17:15 2540-1820=720 Jul 30 10:17:42 720/500=.69 orders per ticket Jul 30 10:17:48 next 500 are from Canada supposedly Jul 30 10:18:05 and #2540 is at California at the moment Jul 30 10:18:30 That would make 1851 sold as of the 27th Jul 30 10:18:54 Assuming that the first bactch was 500 Jul 30 10:19:04 And that the dropout rate doesn't change. Jul 30 10:19:10 Which may be pessimistic. Jul 30 10:19:30 well.. when did warning go up? Jul 30 10:19:47 dunno Jul 30 10:20:42 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[P1_Owners]] [[Buying_Interest_List]] [[Hardware:Neo1973:Alternate_Cases:Ruggedized]] [[OpenMokoFramework]] Jul 30 10:20:48 only those who ordered before warning at order page got warning mail Jul 30 10:21:57 Indeed - I think it's probably safe to say that it's higher than 1851 Jul 30 10:22:17 If the first assumptions hold Jul 30 10:23:24 so there, got a prepaid testing sim Jul 30 10:23:34 :) Jul 30 10:23:39 Does it work? Jul 30 10:24:31 <_diego__> i have ticket number 3854, but i'm still waiting for the order to be processed Jul 30 10:24:50 I'll have to see later tonight, now I gotta do other stuff Jul 30 10:29:27 138/2684 about 5% put themself to [[P1_Owners]] page Jul 30 10:30:31 is SDL ported to openmoko? Jul 30 10:31:25 yes Jul 30 10:32:18 OK (it's still in the wishlist) Jul 30 10:33:43 Vegar: Where in Norway are you? Jul 30 10:33:49 daxxar: Alta Jul 30 10:33:55 far from you Jul 30 10:34:44 Vegar: You should register on the norway-local group. http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/OpenMoko_Local_Groups#EU Jul 30 10:35:47 didn't know about that one Jul 30 10:36:06 (studying electronics)? Jul 30 10:36:15 Yes Jul 30 10:36:27 Well, you're not as far from me as I am from my hometown. ;-) Jul 30 10:36:38 I'm currently starting my second year of EE Jul 30 10:36:47 (Sivilingeniør Elektronikk, NTNU) Jul 30 10:36:57 squalyl`away: http://www.openembedded.org/filebrowser/org.openembedded.dev/packages Jul 30 10:37:38 daxxar: I'm starting on my first year, Ingeniør Elektronikk Jul 30 10:37:41 daxxar: HiN Jul 30 10:37:48 Cool, that's a master? Jul 30 10:37:56 bachelor Jul 30 10:38:02 Okay. :-) Jul 30 10:38:07 but I can get a master later on Jul 30 10:38:24 I wish I had the option to take a bachelor, to be honest Jul 30 10:38:44 yeah, five years sounds a bit overwhelming Jul 30 10:38:46 They're usually a bit more centered on practical courses. Jul 30 10:38:58 (which would help when getting started) Jul 30 10:39:08 yeah Jul 30 10:39:18 Anwyay, now i've started, so I've just got to do my best ;P Jul 30 10:39:38 Brb, prep some slices of bread. Jul 30 10:39:43 I like the option to get the master later Jul 30 10:40:41 I can do the three years, work a bit and then get a master Jul 30 10:40:55 'To find out what over 50 million people are talking about, right now we have a great value offer to get you started. It includes: Jul 30 10:40:56 * First month mobile browse and download is free for all new customers (maximum 5 Megabytes, normally £3 per megabyte). Terms apply' Jul 30 10:40:59 err - no. Jul 30 10:41:06 :) Jul 30 10:41:12 O2.co.uk Jul 30 10:42:13 only 5Meg, bloody hell, thats like 10 seconds Jul 30 10:42:47 openmoko: 03thomas * r2562 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/ (23 files in 5 dirs): * Update openmoko-calculator for OM-2007.2 Jul 30 10:44:15 And note the low-low normal price! Jul 30 10:44:19 daxxar: registered Jul 30 10:44:29 Wacky. Jul 30 10:44:45 I've just spent 30 min on their site looking for personal data tarrifs. Jul 30 10:44:49 They don't have them. Jul 30 10:45:11 At least according to the website. Jul 30 10:45:43 Vegar: True Jul 30 10:45:44 (back) Jul 30 10:46:06 Vegar: let me know before you order your phone as I (and others) may join you in a group order. okay? Jul 30 10:46:21 will do Jul 30 10:46:29 Vegar: i read in the backlog you were waiting for a GTA02. Jul 30 10:46:34 SpeedEvil: Should've lived in norway. £1/mb, no monthly charge, no registration fee, 90min/month free and 120sms/month free. :-P Jul 30 10:46:53 I might order it via England Jul 30 10:47:01 if it turns out to be cheaper Jul 30 10:47:17 aevin: If you need a test-subscription for your phone, go for OneCall Faktura/Kontant. :-) Jul 30 10:47:19 to avoid the mva in Norway Jul 30 10:47:28 Oh, you tax-cheat you! Jul 30 10:47:38 I feel used. :-( Jul 30 10:47:39 daxxar: i'll take note of that. thanks for the tip. Jul 30 10:48:08 It's not what I have on my main phone, but since it has ~no costs at all attached to it for a test phone, it seems to be ideal. Jul 30 10:48:14 (I ordered a SIM for when my GTA01 arrives) Jul 30 10:48:40 D'ya know if "Henrikw" from the wiki hangs on IRC Jul 30 10:48:56 ? Jul 30 10:49:11 daxxar: Virgin AIUI are cheapest. PAYG, and a pound a day for unlimited GPRS Jul 30 10:49:14 no, I don't know him. Jul 30 10:49:17 Hmm. Jul 30 10:49:33 Okay. Jul 30 10:49:42 SpeedEvil: Sounds nice :-) Jul 30 10:49:52 Esp. for GPRS-testing ;-) Jul 30 10:50:30 Their buisness (O2) data for groups is not actually insane. Jul 30 10:51:00 If we got together a group buy. The problem is of course the problem of someone being silly. Jul 30 10:51:44 aevin: we might even do a group-order via my contact in the UK Jul 30 10:52:01 For a group of 10 users - it's 18/mo for 1G/mo (unused data rolls over for 3 months) Jul 30 10:52:44 err - 23 Jul 30 10:53:15 SpeedEvil: per user? Jul 30 10:53:44 No. Jul 30 10:53:53 Hmm. Jul 30 10:54:04 That's a point - if it's over the group, it's not really usefull. Jul 30 10:55:39 openmoko: 03mickey * r2563 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/panel-plugins/ (22 files in 8 dirs): Jul 30 10:55:39 openmoko: * import panel plugins into OM-2007.2 Jul 30 10:55:39 openmoko: * remove qmake build system leftovers Jul 30 10:55:39 openmoko: * fix build system to use libmokopanelui2 Jul 30 10:56:15 openmoko: 03chris * r2564 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-today/ (ChangeLog src/today-events-store.c): Make TodayEventsStore make the description correctly and update on changes Jul 30 10:57:48 is that cia bot downloadable somewhere? :) Jul 30 10:57:59 It's "requestable" Jul 30 10:58:43 openmoko: 03thomas * r2565 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-dialer/ (ChangeLog configure.ac): * configure.ac: Update for OM 2007.2 library names Jul 30 10:59:55 what is the easiest way to get shell access to the qemu-emulated neo1973 (apart from the terminal app)? in other word are there other options besides the gadgetfs way? Jul 30 10:59:56 rschuster: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (and also SH1_FAQ, Neo1973, Developer_preview and Neo1973_Hardware#GTA01Bv4 pages) (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) Jul 30 11:01:42 I think it's here: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Qemu Jul 30 11:05:02 openmoko: 03thomas * r2566 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-dialer/ (7 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed) Jul 30 11:05:02 openmoko: * src/dialer-main.c: Jul 30 11:05:02 openmoko: * src/moko-dialer.c: Jul 30 11:05:05 openmoko: * src/moko-history.c: Jul 30 11:05:07 openmoko: * src/moko-history.h: Jul 30 11:05:09 openmoko: * src/moko-keypad.c: Jul 30 11:05:11 openmoko: * src/moko-talking.c: Jul 30 11:07:01 Is there something on openmoko wishlist (or elsewhere) like kcolourpaint? Jul 30 11:08:45 squalyl: I think tuxpaint will just work? Jul 30 11:10:20 ok Jul 30 11:10:24 I'd like quake2. Jul 30 11:10:45 mmazur: will probably require GTA02 Jul 30 11:10:58 :( Jul 30 11:12:08 mmazur: at a guess; fic 1973 is only a 100mhz processor Jul 30 11:12:11 iirc Jul 30 11:12:26 ewon: no Jul 30 11:12:26 mmazur: it'll be out in october, not too far away :) Jul 30 11:12:29 florian: no? Jul 30 11:12:35 GTA01 is 266MHz Jul 30 11:12:40 ah, apologies Jul 30 11:12:55 It just feels like 100 ;-) Jul 30 11:13:12 I'm not sure it's up for software rendering of something like q2 Jul 30 11:13:18 mickeyl - Can you consider letting buildhost build openmoko-panel-mainmenu, but not include it in the image? Jul 30 11:13:32 ewon: consider the size of the screen. Jul 30 11:14:06 ewon: rendering at 160*213 or so. Jul 30 11:14:13 SpeedEvil: good point Jul 30 11:14:29 Which is 100dpi - the same as most current monitors. Jul 30 11:15:19 Elrond: for the new stuff? Jul 30 11:17:24 mickeyl - Well, only build the old openmoko-panel-mainmenu. Maybe someone ports it to the new stuff. Jul 30 11:18:34 openmoko: 03mickey * r2567 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/panel-plugins/ (7 files in 7 dirs): OM-2007.2 panel plugins need to include libmokopanelui2/moko-panel-applet.h Jul 30 11:18:58 Elrond: ok, will remember that. it needs a bit of porting, but i'll make it available. Jul 30 11:19:36 Elrond: we're right within adding the new stuff. I'm giving you a note once it makes sense to launch a build Jul 30 11:20:29 mickeyl - No panic. There's more important stuff, I knoew that. :) Jul 30 11:20:44 :) Jul 30 11:30:17 Elrond: Do you happen to have whatever output your tool outputs from longtrace laying around? I want to try more statistics. Jul 30 11:31:07 mickeyl, stefan_schmidt - BTW: We mostt likely found the doppler shift setting on the HH yesterday with SpeedEvil's help. :-) Jul 30 11:31:35 wow, cooL! Jul 30 11:31:47 SpeedEvil - No. It's at home. (I'm at work). I'll bzip2 the 100MB thing and upload it. :-) Jul 30 11:32:04 http://www.mauve.plus.com/gps.gif three satellite 'dopplers' as suspected in the strace output - compared with three predicted from orbits doppler. Jul 30 11:32:12 A pretty nice match. Jul 30 11:32:35 Not perfect yet. Jul 30 11:32:52 Elrond: k Jul 30 11:33:03 you're starting to get doppler data from the chip? :) Jul 30 11:33:05 Elrond, SpeedEvil: Cool. Jul 30 11:33:14 mjr: not quite. Jul 30 11:33:20 SpeedEvil - But it'll take till the evening. My box at jome is off. ;-) Jul 30 11:33:31 mjr: the doppler setting is to set the doppler setting in the chip - it's not reading it out. Jul 30 11:33:42 mjr - No, the other way round: We can confiure the doppler on the chip. ;-) Jul 30 11:33:43 ah, oops, strace output Jul 30 11:33:43 mjr: it's what gllin sets. Jul 30 11:33:52 oh Jul 30 11:34:02 * mjr reveals his ignorance of deeper GPS mysteries :] Jul 30 11:34:20 But conversely - that means that given known doppler settings - and we know them as we know the orbits - we can set the doppler exactly right - more or less - per chip. Jul 30 11:34:24 per satellite. Jul 30 11:34:28 mjr - sphyrna's library section has things to set the doppler on the chip. Jul 30 11:34:33 which may help a little with downloading. Jul 30 11:34:35 * mjr nods enthusiastically Jul 30 11:35:32 and these dopplers, which car manufacturer makes them? Jul 30 11:35:38 :) Jul 30 11:36:19 Next plan is to draw peakheight/RealIntegrationTime over 'Doppler' for neo-in-the-graden and neo-on-the-metall-box ;-) Jul 30 11:36:52 s/over/versus Jul 30 11:37:07 s/on-/in- Jul 30 11:37:13 Oh well, my typing is bad today. Jul 30 11:37:29 graden/garden? Jul 30 11:37:38 Vegar - Yes, yes. Jul 30 11:38:57 anyone have an email contact for laforge? I tried emailing laforge@openmoko.org but it bounced Jul 30 11:39:18 openmoko.com? Jul 30 11:39:24 Elrond: We have: How to setup the chip initially. How to set per-satellite doppler. How to setup the integrators and read back peak height versus correlator bin. We're lacking the exact way that the navigation bits are extracted. And perhaps the way to align the correlation process with the incoming symbol rate. Jul 30 11:39:33 ewon: ouch, it should work Jul 30 11:39:36 Though much of this is not understood in detail. Jul 30 11:40:14 stefan_schmidt: it seems to relay it to a hmw-consulting.de address, which timed out Jul 30 11:40:18 This alone is probably enough to extract a position roughly, using 'transit' techniques. Jul 30 11:40:28 ewon: hmm, ok Jul 30 11:40:31 SpeedEvil - We lack "how to detect "sat is really there" vs. "artefact of the chip". ;-) Jul 30 11:40:39 ewon: perhaps a tmp problem Jul 30 11:40:40 Ah :) Jul 30 11:42:32 Transit: 'Calculating the optimal receiver location was not a trivial exercise. The navigation software used the satellite's motion to compute a 'trial' doppler curve, based on an initial 'trial' location for the receiver. The software would then perform a least squares curve fit for each two-minute section of the doppler curve, recursively moving the trial position until the trial doppler curve 'most closely' matched the actual doppler receive Jul 30 11:42:44 SpeedEvil - I plotted peakheight versus doppler. And there is lots of structure in there. For example, there is a maximum at 'Doppler'==0 for all sats. Jul 30 11:43:03 * SpeedEvil tries to think why that might be. Jul 30 11:43:39 It would be interesting to see what the peak height does as it goes through 0 naturally Jul 30 11:44:03 Ahh, good idea. Jul 30 11:45:00 Well, I did all this before finding RealIntegrationTime. So I really should look at PeakHeight/RealIntegrationTime. Jul 30 11:48:14 is the gllin a final (full-featured) binary blob, or is it still a work-in-progress that GL works on? Jul 30 11:48:38 It is supposed to be a full-featured blob. Jul 30 11:48:51 However, at best, there are some problems with it. Jul 30 11:49:06 It also does not integrate all the possible functions. Jul 30 11:50:17 okay. Jul 30 11:50:23 so it's crap? Jul 30 11:50:40 Vegar - Well, it works. Jul 30 11:51:38 It works. Mostly. There have been reports of odd behaviour from it. Jul 30 11:52:18 Although it is hard to say, where the weakest point in the chain is. Jul 30 11:53:36 is openmoko-rssreader still broken? Jul 30 11:53:44 hmm. mokoninja has added three more videos on youtube (1 day ago). Jul 30 11:54:11 Ahhh. Jul 30 11:56:49 what sort of fix is imaginable to get around these openmoko-rssreader problems? it complains about webkit (in the last SVN rev #2520) Jul 30 12:00:31 Vegar - "There's always room for improvement"(citing a collegue). And gllin will be the only working solution for a long time. We're making progress in the reverse engineering, but it's going slow. Jul 30 12:00:39 Elrond, what about coldstart.py? I'd like to see traces. Once PRN lock is done, we can concentrate on NAV message Jul 30 12:00:57 Elrond: of course Jul 30 12:01:47 * SpeedEvil wonders what accuracy could be gotten simply using it as transit. Jul 30 12:01:58 squalyl: Last svn rev is 2567 and the rss-reader build should have a workaround Jul 30 12:02:00 Dmitry_Platonov - Read above: I still have no idea on how to detect "sat is there" versus "artefact by the chip". When we have thtt, I'll write a scanner. Jul 30 12:02:13 squalyl: Make sure sur you use the last revision Jul 30 12:03:58 Dmitry_Platonov - "artefacts by the chip": I can easily create a 0xfff for the neo being in a metall box. ;-) Jul 30 12:05:36 Hello Lord Jul 30 12:06:04 mokobot - And why don't you bow in front of an elvenlord? ;o) Jul 30 12:07:30 Elrond, he is my slave..muhahah' Jul 30 12:07:39 Elrond, is it persistent? Jul 30 12:07:50 Dmitry_Platonov - Yes. Jul 30 12:08:03 Dmitry_Platonov - I have a nice max at prn==1, 'Doppler'=-243200 Jul 30 12:09:03 And there are lots of smaller max in the correlator-peak-height versus doppler. Jul 30 12:09:13 s/max/maxima/ Jul 30 12:09:13 Elrond meant: And there are lots of smaller maxima in the correlator-peak-height versus doppler. Jul 30 12:10:55 maybe metal box is not enough shielding? also, we might consider "actual integration time": lesser time -> more signal strength Jul 30 12:11:32 As a first cut, I'd try wrapping in several layers of foil. Jul 30 12:11:44 While running a logging app. Jul 30 12:12:05 metal box: It's a 2mm thick metal box. It really should be enough. Jul 30 12:12:19 What are the seals like? Jul 30 12:13:07 Hmm, I doubt even air can get in there easily. Jul 30 12:13:18 caimed sensitivity of chip is 160 dB/mW, and open-sky signal is, I believe, 190 dB/mW Jul 30 12:13:21 I'll put my mobile in there and try calling it. ;o) Jul 30 12:13:31 s/caimed/claimed/ Jul 30 12:13:32 Dmitry_Platonov meant: claimed sensitivity of chip is 160 dB/mW, and open-sky signal is, I believe, 190 dB/mW Jul 30 12:14:04 Dmitry_Platonov - claimed is -160dB*something* (sign!) Jul 30 12:14:36 yeah, read -160 and -190 respectively 8) Jul 30 12:14:54 Well, -190 would be unmeasureable then. Jul 30 12:15:19 hmm. yeas, It was -160 dB/W, so -130 dB/mW Jul 30 12:15:23 my bad. Jul 30 12:15:58 -160 db/W - open-sky SNR Jul 30 12:16:31 stefan_schmidt: I still had "srcdate=20070720" in my preferred version. I restored to "now" Jul 30 12:16:57 squalyl: No will break Jul 30 12:17:07 squalyl: You need the fixed version Jul 30 12:17:20 what date? 20070720? Jul 30 12:17:37 squalyl: the dep on webkit will only start working in OE.dev Jul 30 12:17:54 squalyl: If that one did not work try 20070719 Jul 30 12:18:07 Ok. Open-sky snr = -160 dB/W = -190 dB/mW. Chip sensitivity = -160 dB/mW = -190 dB/W Jul 30 12:18:31 ahh Jul 30 12:18:48 stefan_schmidt: OK I'm restarting build now. Jul 30 12:19:40 end of working day here - and I can't think. Obliviously I messed somewhere. Jul 30 12:20:12 Dmitry_Platonov - That numbers still look confusing to me. But anyway: sirf3 cliaims -159dB*something* And it's close to lost in my room, not to mentio the metal box. ;-) Jul 30 12:20:14 Ok. Open-sky snr = -160 dB/W = -130 dB/mW. Chip sensitivity = -160 dB/mW = -190 dB/W Jul 30 12:20:42 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Devirginator/it]] [[P1_Owners]] [[Dfu-util]] [[OpenMoko_Local_Groups:_London]] [[OpenMoko_Local_Groups:_Netherlands]] [[OpenMoko_Local_Groups:_Norway]] [[Clocks]] [[Talk:OpenMoko_Local_Groups:_Norway]] Jul 30 12:27:27 openmoko: 03www-data * r2568 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/ (openmoko-calculator/ openmoko-calculator2/): openmoko-calculator -> openmoko-calculator2 Jul 30 12:27:44 openmoko: 03www-data * r2569 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/ (openmoko-dialer/ openmoko-dialer2/): openmoko-dialer -> openmoko-dialer2 Jul 30 12:27:51 Elrond, numbers looks confusing too me too. I'm not radio specialist anyway. Jul 30 12:28:05 openmoko: 03www-data * r2570 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/ (openmoko-today/ openmoko-today2/): openmoko-today -> openmoko-today2 Jul 30 12:29:10 BTW: Who is "www-data"? ;-) Jul 30 12:29:38 me directly on svn.openmoko.org Jul 30 12:29:45 The default user for apache in debian-derivaties Jul 30 12:29:47 derivatives Jul 30 12:30:05 Do you guys use ssh+svn for svn, mickeyl? Jul 30 12:30:10 no, https Jul 30 12:30:14 Elrond, what about "RealIntegrationTime" at those false-positives? Is it > then "RealIntegrationTime" for actual signals? Jul 30 12:30:20 Okay. Why do you have a user named www-data? Jul 30 12:33:17 daxxar: default user on debian and ubuntu for apache 2. security matters. Jul 30 12:33:39 ops Jul 30 12:33:42 * moo^ scrollbacks Jul 30 12:33:57 moo^: Haha. ;-) Jul 30 12:34:21 mickeyl: is that websvn? Jul 30 12:34:26 If they're using http(s) as the transport, I guess they must be using mod_authz (?), which means they've explicitly created www-data as a user. Jul 30 12:34:49 * mickeyl shrugs, i have no idea about that Jul 30 12:35:00 i'm just using the infrastructure, i didn't set it up Jul 30 12:35:09 Dmitry_Platonov - I have not yet looked. I found out about Integration times just the day I wrote the mail about t. The other stuff was done before that. Jul 30 12:35:18 mickeyl: There's a checkout locally on the box that "everyone" uses? Jul 30 12:35:37 no. Jul 30 12:35:48 you can svn mv directly on the server Jul 30 12:36:04 however only www-data has the necessary permissions to do that Jul 30 12:36:12 Ah, using file://? Jul 30 12:36:14 ya Jul 30 12:36:37 Okay, never tested how SVN reacted to file:// if I've also got http set up. Guess it just uses your unix-username. :-) Jul 30 12:36:48 Sorry, was just curious. :-) Jul 30 12:37:03 Hmm, I thought, svn mv would also work via https. Strange. Jul 30 12:37:15 It does. :-) Jul 30 12:37:35 I usually check out a top-level directory to svn mv, so that I can bundle mv's into one, though. (If I'm doing > 1 dir) Jul 30 12:37:48 s/top-level/higher level/ Jul 30 12:37:50 daxxar meant: I usually check out a higher level directory to svn mv, so that I can bundle mv's into one, though. (If I'm doing > 1 dir) Jul 30 12:37:57 daxxar - hehe. :-) Jul 30 12:38:02 Anyway, that's a bit slow on bigger repos Jul 30 12:38:23 I only use svn via anonymous/read-only repos, or via ssh+svn. Jul 30 12:38:25 Elrond, actual correlation strength = CorMax * MaxIntegrationTime / RealIntegrationTime Jul 30 12:38:34 Elrond: Ooooh! Jul 30 12:39:06 I've never used ssh+svn, only svn, http(s) or file Jul 30 12:39:12 Elrond: The 'zig-zag' on the doppler looks to correlate more or less with a chips error. Jul 30 12:39:31 SpeedEvil - huh? Jul 30 12:39:55 Dmitry_Platonov - Remove the MaxIntegrationTime from the formula. :-) Jul 30 12:40:01 Look at the traces of doppler vs time of the three satellites. Jul 30 12:40:06 you see jaggies in it. Jul 30 12:40:19 * daxxar goes afk to study Jul 30 12:40:34 If you integrate the possible error the triangles of the jaggies may represent, it comes out as around a microsecond. Jul 30 12:41:33 Which may indicate that it's trying to keep the recieved signal in one correlator bin, and only tweaking the doppler when it's about to fall out. Jul 30 12:41:53 Ahhhh. Jul 30 12:42:37 This is _very_ rough. Jul 30 12:43:10 If it does do this however, it would mean that the correlator would normally be synced with the incoming PRN. Jul 30 12:43:20 Elrond, you are right. Jul 30 12:43:47 Which means that when it integrates over the period of a millisecond repeatedly, it would not have 'stray' energy from adjacent 'symbols' leaking in. Jul 30 12:44:22 SpeedEvil: Did I come in in the middle of GPS talk? Jul 30 12:44:29 calamous1_: pretty much. Jul 30 12:44:46 Have you (or anyone) heard any more about the 3g sims? Jul 30 12:45:13 I'm really thinking about dropping fic an email Jul 30 12:45:15 You need to align the correlator with the incoming signal - otherwise you will get 'fuzzy' bit-edges of the navigation bits. Jul 30 12:45:26 calamous1_: nothing resolved AIUI. Jul 30 12:45:32 calamous1_: the bug is known by core team and being investigated Jul 30 12:45:48 XorA: do they have SIMs to test with? Jul 30 12:46:08 XroA: Thats good. I will ship them my sim if they want Jul 30 12:46:15 SpeedEvil: not sure on current state, but I know its being looked at Jul 30 12:46:56 calamous1_, what the problem is? Jul 30 12:46:59 XorA: Can I talk with anyone to see if they want my sim to test on (Standard at&t 4021 its in all their new phones incluiding iphone) Jul 30 12:47:14 calamous1_: ML is prolly reasonable. Jul 30 12:47:23 SpeedEvil: ML? Jul 30 12:47:24 calamous1_: I would just put all info you have in the bug Jul 30 12:47:36 The Mailing List Jul 30 12:47:43 XroA: Bug 666? Jul 30 12:48:31 Dimitry_Platonov: Many people can't get 3g sim cards to work with their device. They cant event do basic communication with the sim non the less make calls (except 911 in theory) Jul 30 12:48:57 calamous1_: sounds like as good a place as any Jul 30 12:49:23 sounds like time to break out the wigglescopes Jul 30 12:49:29 SpeedEvil - If I awake from my work crap. I hopefully will be enough not-jaded to think up a quick script to extract the bin-number for the PRN. ;-) Jul 30 12:59:24 squalyl you around Jul 30 12:59:35 I've used a 3G sim in my neo. It makes (silent) calls but will not recieve them. Jul 30 12:59:41 XorA: Do you think the neo's hardware can't read the sim, or that AT&T did something non standard to it to prevent phones they don't want on Jul 30 13:00:32 XorA: Because when I purshased my contract from AT&T for the prepaid sim card I made sure to ask about phones. They said that it will work with "any unlocked GSM phone" Jul 30 13:00:52 there's hardly a need for conspiracy theories though... call control is primitive at best atm Jul 30 13:01:23 AT&T wants Business Jul 30 13:01:47 They want than sim to work with the phones I have so I will keep giving them my CC to reload the phone and they can make money Jul 30 13:03:04 calamous1_: most likely a fault on Neo, but until someone scopes it, its hard to say Jul 30 13:03:21 Elrond, does false positives happen in gllin too? Jul 30 13:03:55 openmoko: 03www-data * r2571 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-feedreader2/: (OM2007) openmoko-rssreader -> (OM2007.2) openmoko-feedreader2 Jul 30 13:04:04 zecke: here we are Jul 30 13:04:20 i hope you don't mind changing the name to a somewhat less technical term Jul 30 13:04:33 does anybody know if calls are received with standard sim cards using the latest images? I'm unable to test this Jul 30 13:04:36 I'm going to freak out :) Jul 30 13:04:40 calamous1_: and as for the "non" standard, its very hard to make a "standard" SIM as there are a couple of mistakes in the standards that destroy any hope of everyone playing in the same park Jul 30 13:04:41 heh Jul 30 13:04:51 please not another one freaking out hint *hint* Jul 30 13:04:57 ;) Jul 30 13:05:37 how much volatile ram does the neo1973 have? and non-volatile? Jul 30 13:05:40 zecke: there's only space for one person going spare, per month Jul 30 13:05:51 ~faq Jul 30 13:05:53 faq is, like, frequently asked question... try asking me about "RTFM" Jul 30 13:06:03 ~P1 Jul 30 13:06:27 StylusEater: hmmm, can't put my finer on the link, but the FAQ should answer that question Jul 30 13:06:42 http://www.openmoko.com/products-neo-base-00-stdkit.html <-- I'm looking there Jul 30 13:07:10 mjr, ... Jul 30 13:07:15 Stephmw: I'd think it'd be listed on the hardware page... Jul 30 13:07:52 StylusEater: this is the detailed hardware page, http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973_Hardware Jul 30 13:08:08 ty Jul 30 13:08:10 StylusEater: most of the .com pages link to the wiki in one way or another Jul 30 13:10:29 anyone here from Taiwan and have ordered a Neo1973 P1? Jul 30 13:11:16 I think I'm going to go insane waiting :-( Jul 30 13:11:40 I s'pose I naively thought living in Taiwan would mean I got some priority ;-) Jul 30 13:12:12 duffyd: you could go and kick in their front doors :-) Jul 30 13:12:30 lol, true. Don't know if that would be good for the whole FOSS spirit thing :-) Jul 30 13:12:51 openmoko are actually in the USA Jul 30 13:13:06 faq Jul 30 13:13:06 See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (and also SH1_FAQ, Neo1973, Developer_preview and Neo1973_Hardware#GTA01Bv4 pages) Jul 30 13:13:07 Linux_Galore_: well depends on perspective really as Sean is in Taiwan Jul 30 13:13:40 duffyd: thats because thats were FIC's offices are Jul 30 13:13:48 Linux_Galore_: exactly Jul 30 13:14:12 duffyd: but last i heard FIC are not distributing the phone Jul 30 13:14:29 true but a subsidiary of there's, aka OpenMoko are Jul 30 13:15:33 openmoko has been spun off as its own company Jul 30 13:15:39 I'm actually unsure why they're distributing from the US - only reason I can think of is - US is more accessible, etc Jul 30 13:15:41 it used to be part of fic Jul 30 13:15:48 raster: yup Jul 30 13:16:11 raster: afaik it's still under the auspices of FIC though Jul 30 13:16:19 I mean they're funding it etc Jul 30 13:16:29 well if it flops FIC management wont get too much heat I dare say Jul 30 13:16:34 yes Jul 30 13:16:43 fic are funding Jul 30 13:16:54 Linux_Galore_: dont be too sure about that Jul 30 13:17:02 yeah ;-) Jul 30 13:17:05 fic's own mobile phone operations have been shut down Jul 30 13:17:16 raster: wow, really?! Jul 30 13:17:16 directly because of this Jul 30 13:17:19 as best i know Jul 30 13:17:33 fic used to make phones Jul 30 13:17:35 yeah, they did mention something about reorganising the mobile phone division, etc Jul 30 13:17:38 like feature phones Jul 30 13:17:40 etc. Jul 30 13:17:54 hey raster - you're in Japan! Jul 30 13:17:55 duffyd: dunno Jul 30 13:18:02 I guess you knew that ;-) Jul 30 13:18:10 as best i know openmoko is the evolution of their mobile stuff Jul 30 13:18:20 and yes Jul 30 13:18:22 i'm in japan Jul 30 13:18:27 s/evolution/revolutuion/ Jul 30 13:18:32 just that my wife is Japanese so I have a 'vested' interest in the place Jul 30 13:18:42 FIC may be thinking "well if we cant get it right lets see if a bunch of Linux geeks can" Jul 30 13:18:44 if you don't mind me asking - what're you doing there? Jul 30 13:18:57 Linux_Galore_: ;-) Jul 30 13:18:58 does anyone else get this problem when compiling libx11 with mokomakefile '| xlibi18n/.libs/libi18n.a: member xlibi18n/.libs/libi18n.a(imThaiFlt.o) in archive is not an object' Jul 30 13:19:02 duffyd: aaah Jul 30 13:19:14 Linux_Galore_: maybe Jul 30 13:19:30 Linux_Galore_: maybe a bunch of linux geeks can make phones that no one else can Jul 30 13:19:38 lets hope so Jul 30 13:19:39 basically because they WILL think outside the box Jul 30 13:19:42 FIC dont lose anything really and they still end up with a mobile phone software package Jul 30 13:19:48 if u take your existing mobile phone crew Jul 30 13:19:52 they will think the way they used to Jul 30 13:19:54 and work that way Jul 30 13:20:05 FIC are asking 'can we get a OS for our hardware on the cheap" Jul 30 13:20:15 throw some really keen motivated linux nerds at it Jul 30 13:20:17 and presto Jul 30 13:20:18 SpeedEvil: why not ;-) Jul 30 13:20:22 SpeedEvil: Evil indeed. That was what I was going to say. Jul 30 13:20:22 Indeed. Jul 30 13:20:30 as long as they make the hardware, who cares ;-) Jul 30 13:20:35 fic (now openmok) are not just looking for an os for cheap Jul 30 13:20:45 they are willing to work on it and plow their work back into open srouce Jul 30 13:20:55 However. Jul 30 13:21:02 its the eco system Jul 30 13:21:09 u get somethinfg for "free" Jul 30 13:21:12 but Jul 30 13:21:13 well as I keep telling everyone, the Linux community is so big now it is a market in itself Jul 30 13:21:14 The buisness reason for them is to get an OS so they can sell phones to consumers without having to write their own OS. Jul 30 13:21:18 if u want to hang around for the long haul Jul 30 13:21:22 u need to also give back Jul 30 13:21:27 I'm not seeing much along the lines of supported audio formats... The wilson DAC/ADC doesn't seem to support mp3 or ogg. Am I incorrect? Jul 30 13:21:31 No. Jul 30 13:21:35 It's software only. Jul 30 13:21:41 the wolfson thing is simply a soundcard. Jul 30 13:21:51 In principle. Jul 30 13:21:54 just use mad Jul 30 13:21:58 or ogg123 Jul 30 13:21:59 Once the powersaving is properly implemented. Jul 30 13:22:00 or mpg123 Jul 30 13:22:05 or whatever your favorite audio player is Jul 30 13:22:08 StylusEater: gstreamer has our back Jul 30 13:22:09 It should last 20ish hours playing mp3. Jul 30 13:22:17 raster: did you get my message re. what you're doing in Japan? Jul 30 13:22:20 SpeedEvil: interesting question Jul 30 13:22:21 so what formats are supported? anything that can be converted in software? Jul 30 13:22:28 I wonder how FIC will take it if one of its Chinese competitors just takes the software and produces its own variant Jul 30 13:22:29 duffyd: sorry missed it. - um - working Jul 30 13:22:38 raster: k, in software or English ;-) Jul 30 13:22:45 Linux_Galore_: it's a win for them. Jul 30 13:22:57 Linux_Galore_: at the moment, they are a lowest bidder, making phones for Nokia. Jul 30 13:23:02 duffyd: IT :) Jul 30 13:23:09 raster: cool! Opensource? Jul 30 13:23:10 Linux_Galore_: they want to be a 'PC' maker selling stuff to consumers. Jul 30 13:23:33 StylusEater: yup. if there is software that decodes it - it can be supported. Jul 30 13:23:47 duffyd: nup. not currently. that may change. stay tuned Jul 30 13:23:51 SpeedEvil: hmm, bit like IBM with the XT/AT open standard ? Jul 30 13:23:54 Linux_Galore_: If this happens, they get much better margins than selling phones as the lowest bid for the latest Nokia. Jul 30 13:23:56 raster: cool Jul 30 13:24:06 raster: wireless 802.11? Jul 30 13:24:10 raster: you getting a Neo1973 P1? Jul 30 13:24:22 did they ever get past the chip company releasing specs? Jul 30 13:24:23 Linux_Galore_: basically. Jul 30 13:24:33 StylusEater: thew gta 02 (available in a few months) will have 802.11 Jul 30 13:24:40 SpeedEvil: take a few years for the software to mature though, hope they are patient Jul 30 13:24:41 duffyd: already have the dev version Jul 30 13:24:41 StylusEater: The atheros chip chosen has open drivers Jul 30 13:24:48 raster: awesome!!! Jul 30 13:24:52 can you shut down any devices while making a phone call ? Jul 30 13:25:00 I would imagine at least the display Jul 30 13:25:01 xkr47: Sure. Jul 30 13:25:03 raster: my blog is http://kokorice.org (if you're interested) Jul 30 13:25:08 raster: you got a blog? Jul 30 13:25:08 xkr47: display, bluetooth, GPS, CPU Jul 30 13:25:14 cpu even.. nice Jul 30 13:25:18 you assume i have TIME to blog Jul 30 13:25:19 In principle. Jul 30 13:25:22 www.rasterman.com Jul 30 13:25:23 i guess Jul 30 13:25:29 raster: lol Jul 30 13:25:30 so the audio is handled purely by the audio chip ? Jul 30 13:25:30 thanks Jul 30 13:25:38 xkr47: the routing is. Jul 30 13:25:45 yeah.. Jul 30 13:25:58 xkr47: if you've just set it up to connect the mic to the GSM input, and the output to the speakers. Jul 30 13:26:12 yeah.. and mixer levels.. Jul 30 13:26:14 how retarded. I can't buy the north american maps for my garmin unit outside north america. So what the hell do I do when I land in LAX? Jul 30 13:26:25 ewon: buy maps Jul 30 13:26:31 SpeedEvil, but you can also connect pcm out to gsm input right? Jul 30 13:26:31 hahyaha Jul 30 13:26:31 * SpeedEvil passes ewon bittorrent. Jul 30 13:26:37 xkr47: yes. Jul 30 13:26:57 now what we need is OPEN map content for all of the world Jul 30 13:26:57 chilling cool Jul 30 13:26:59 SpeedEvil: isn't there some kind of cretinous product activation involved? Jul 30 13:27:04 all thsi open soruce stuff si great Jul 30 13:27:05 or has that been cracked? Jul 30 13:27:07 * xkr47 dances the openmoko dance Jul 30 13:27:08 ewon: dunno. Jul 30 13:27:15 but its hard to have a nice map app if it has no god damned data Jul 30 13:27:17 xkr47: Youtube please. Jul 30 13:27:22 :D Jul 30 13:27:42 duffyd: i see - kiwi :) Jul 30 13:27:55 raster: yeah, don't hold that against me ;-) Jul 30 13:28:05 raster: I'm not holding the Ozzy thing against you (for the record) Jul 30 13:28:11 Dmitry_Platonov - I don't know, if gllin also trips on flase positives, or if it has some advanced logic to filter them out. Jul 30 13:28:18 if it helps - my last name is German ;-) Jul 30 13:28:24 duffyd: hehehe Jul 30 13:28:47 i'd be torn then Jul 30 13:28:57 i'm half german Jul 30 13:29:01 other hald is ozzie Jul 30 13:29:03 half Jul 30 13:29:30 ;-) Jul 30 13:30:09 * duffyd really needs to get into Enlightenment Jul 30 13:30:13 someone should start an openmoko comic :) Jul 30 13:30:41 with openmoko devices + line art heads, hands & feet acting as characters Jul 30 13:30:55 or maybe the device could be the head :) Jul 30 13:30:58 raster - How stable is efl currently? Jul 30 13:31:47 Elrond: WFM(tm) Jul 30 13:31:48 :) Jul 30 13:32:12 dependsw what u mean by stable Jul 30 13:32:16 and what your standards are Jul 30 13:32:21 and what bitf of efl u use Jul 30 13:32:23 bits Jul 30 13:32:25 as its split up Jul 30 13:32:31 older stuff is really stable Jul 30 13:32:36 both api and runtime-wise Jul 30 13:32:39 newer stuff - less so Jul 30 13:32:55 raster: Half German? Do you actually speak it, too? Jul 30 13:33:01 but the less stablke bits are probabkly no less stable than gtk etc. Jul 30 13:33:01 is there a good hires picute of the neo Jul 30 13:33:13 nbd: morning Jul 30 13:33:26 abraxa_: ja - ich kann es noch fliessend - aber bin mal ein bisschen rustig Jul 30 13:33:36 raster: Haha niiice Jul 30 13:33:48 hi prpplague Jul 30 13:34:04 raster: this may be a controversial question (on this channel anyway) but how do you rate the N800? Jul 30 13:34:16 duffyd: nice Jul 30 13:34:22 but it has no stinkin phone bits Jul 30 13:34:28 so i need to ALSO drag around a phone Jul 30 13:34:34 also its big Jul 30 13:34:43 it'd be better with a real keyboard Jul 30 13:34:47 but otherwise its very nice Jul 30 13:34:49 oh Jul 30 13:34:52 the camera sucks arse Jul 30 13:35:02 and the graphics pipeline/bus is crap Jul 30 13:35:07 worse than the 770 Jul 30 13:35:14 its actually embarrasingly bad Jul 30 13:35:15 k Jul 30 13:35:43 lol Jul 30 13:36:04 but its otherwise nice Jul 30 13:36:07 the cpu is fast and good Jul 30 13:36:08 Please don't let this man torture me. Jul 30 13:36:10 memory good Jul 30 13:36:15 design is good Jul 30 13:36:36 the software isnt really fantastic though Jul 30 13:36:41 a bit sluggish Jul 30 13:36:47 it can't suspend/sleep well Jul 30 13:36:56 raster: do you know Shigeo Honda or Takeshi Yamamoto? Jul 30 13:37:06 raster, it snores when sleeping ?-D Jul 30 13:37:15 so if u dont literally shut it down ()which means booting when u turn it on again and waiting for a 1 minute boot or so) it will only last 8-10hrs on its battery Jul 30 13:37:36 k Jul 30 13:37:37 duffyd: no - never heard of them Jul 30 13:37:57 raster: they're involved in the Japanese Zope User Group - what I do for a day job :-) Jul 30 13:38:06 well do zope/plone dev anyway Jul 30 13:38:13 as you probably saw on my blog :-) Jul 30 13:38:26 yeah Jul 30 13:38:28 i spotted it Jul 30 13:38:33 i dont do "web programming" Jul 30 13:38:37 so i dont float in those circles Jul 30 13:38:46 raster - Thanks for your answer. :-) Jul 30 13:38:52 FuzzyCat: http://sicherheitsschwankung.de/gallery/v/openmoko/ has some hi-res photos Jul 30 13:39:12 it looks like the photos that openmoko.com/org have :) Jul 30 13:39:18 raster: cool, you did an NZ ski trip in 02~ Jul 30 13:39:41 FuzzyCat - flickr has some also. Jul 30 13:39:53 duffyd: are you from nz? Jul 30 13:39:55 ta Jul 30 13:40:01 xzcvczx: yup Jul 30 13:40:09 duffyd: what part? Jul 30 13:40:19 FuzzyCat: ta? you from the Southern Hemisphere also? Jul 30 13:40:25 xzcvczx: Christchurch Jul 30 13:40:32 FuzzyCat - http://www.flickr.com/groups/openmoko/pool/ Jul 30 13:40:41 currently in Taichung, Taiwan Jul 30 13:40:49 duffyd: ah nice and warm there at the moment i trust :P Jul 30 13:40:59 xzcvczx: yes Jul 30 13:41:04 duffyd: lol Jul 30 13:41:07 *too* warm Jul 30 13:41:15 turn off the heater then :P Jul 30 13:41:31 duffyd: hows the shipping on yours going? Jul 30 13:41:34 duffyd: yeah - i have done 2 nz ski trips actually Jul 30 13:41:38 xzcvczx: stinkee! Jul 30 13:41:42 raster: cool Jul 30 13:41:43 duffyd: one to queenstown, other to wanaka Jul 30 13:41:50 xzcvczx: I've heard nothing yet Jul 30 13:41:52 zilcho Jul 30 13:42:01 duffyd: you have tracking number i assume? Jul 30 13:42:02 actually the snow was a bit shitty Jul 30 13:42:05 raster: nice scenery down there Jul 30 13:42:11 xzcvczx: yes Jul 30 13:42:13 somehow staying in wakana or queenstown Jul 30 13:42:14 2018 Jul 30 13:42:15 ands having no snow Jul 30 13:42:21 and needing to drive up the mountain to find it Jul 30 13:42:23 kinda sucks Jul 30 13:42:24 :( Jul 30 13:42:26 duffyd: yeah but tracking thing for ups Jul 30 13:42:27 raster: lol Jul 30 13:42:31 xzcvczx: no Jul 30 13:42:36 no UPS info yet Jul 30 13:42:37 i want snow everywhere when i ski Jul 30 13:42:48 I've emailed OpenMoko a few times (even sean directly) but no response Jul 30 13:42:51 if nz had snow down in queenstown Jul 30 13:42:59 well my recent email hasn't had a response anyway Jul 30 13:43:02 i'd damn well buy a place there as a mountain getaway Jul 30 13:43:28 duffyd: oh ok i already have tracking number and i am 2540 Jul 30 13:43:32 raster: it seems to be getting pretty cold in Winter nowadays so I would guess your chances are fairly high Jul 30 13:43:46 duffyd: its all the global warming :P Jul 30 13:43:47 xzcvczx: that's why I'm baffled. Can't understand why I don't have a UPS tracking number Jul 30 13:43:49 even with global warming? Jul 30 13:43:56 raster: yup Jul 30 13:44:11 duffyd: well you havent even got a payement recieved thing yet Jul 30 13:44:13 hmm Jul 30 13:44:14 ok Jul 30 13:44:15 raster: check out all the storms they've had lately Jul 30 13:44:16 might look at it again Jul 30 13:44:19 xzcvczx: nup Jul 30 13:44:21 what was the date that you ordered Jul 30 13:44:23 though that eare has become hella-expensive Jul 30 13:44:30 xzcvczx: 9th of July Jul 30 13:44:38 I ordered on the same day that most people did (but late) Jul 30 13:44:46 duffyd: what tracker id did you get? Jul 30 13:44:51 2018 Jul 30 13:45:02 * duffyd is going to go insane waiting Jul 30 13:45:08 duffyd: i feel sorry for you i orded on the 13th and its already been shipped Jul 30 13:45:20 xzcvczx: yeah I can't understand it Jul 30 13:45:23 ouch, I'm at #2580 Jul 30 13:45:36 I've got a bad feeling it has something to do with me being in Taiwan :-( Jul 30 13:45:56 roh has confirmed that it's in the system Jul 30 13:46:14 and my YES_I_DO reply has been received also Jul 30 13:46:15 duffyd: oh so maybe its the billing address/shipping address dont match that of your cc Jul 30 13:46:32 xzcvczx: actually that is possibly true Jul 30 13:46:42 duffyd: i think that the openmoko has not been "fcc" approved in .tw Jul 30 13:46:44 as it doesn't match Jul 30 13:46:52 thus it actually cannot be imported (yet) Jul 30 13:46:52 raster: ahhhhh Jul 30 13:46:56 noooooo Jul 30 13:47:00 but certificfation is under way right now Jul 30 13:47:19 that's *really* bad news Jul 30 13:47:19 raster: chances are it would get done in .tw before .nz Jul 30 13:47:29 possibly Jul 30 13:47:39 xzcvczx: what do you mean? Jul 30 13:47:39 it may be that .nz and .au etc. might accept devices fcc approved for example Jul 30 13:47:45 Stephmw: greetings Jul 30 13:47:50 raster: isnt .tw the same? Jul 30 13:47:50 or maybe its because openmoko are in .tw Jul 30 13:47:55 they really have to follow the law there Jul 30 13:48:00 ok Jul 30 13:48:04 oh ok Jul 30 13:48:26 duffyd: so are you just on holiday in tw Jul 30 13:48:31 xzcvczx: yup Jul 30 13:48:44 Hope nobody jails me for using neo in poland. Jul 30 13:48:46 lol wouldnt you hate it if they shipped it just before you retuyrned Jul 30 13:48:46 going to be back in NZ about the first week of September Jul 30 13:48:48 returned Jul 30 13:48:55 xzcvczx: YES Jul 30 13:48:57 lol Jul 30 13:49:08 I'd commit harakiri Jul 30 13:49:10 really not 100% sure Jul 30 13:49:12 but be patient Jul 30 13:49:19 that's slit my stomach open with a samurai sword ;-) Jul 30 13:49:24 i do know that topenmoko got more orders than they expected Jul 30 13:49:30 and are struggling to deal with them all Jul 30 13:49:33 ok Jul 30 13:49:35 i think i was one of the last few in the first shipment of P1 as i dont see anyone after me with shipped Jul 30 13:49:35 since they are basically a new company Jul 30 13:49:42 and fic has never really sold direct to the public Jul 30 13:49:44 hi all Jul 30 13:49:45 its all "new" Jul 30 13:49:47 to them Jul 30 13:49:48 yeah Jul 30 13:49:55 they can manufacture stuff Jul 30 13:50:06 but selling it to end users and gettign it shipped is a whole new game Jul 30 13:50:12 I replied to the warning email with orange, but they sent me a black/silver. Now that it's arrived, I realised I really don't care about the colour, I would have taken it in pink/green! Jul 30 13:50:14 i am sure thsi will be streamlined in time Jul 30 13:50:20 you'd think they'd get the whole importing to Taiwan thing sussed pretty quickly considering they're based here Jul 30 13:50:27 what version of gcc/glibc/glib are people using to compile openmoko? Jul 30 13:50:49 xzcvczx: btw where are you based? Jul 30 13:50:56 duffyd: auckland Jul 30 13:51:05 xzcvczx: wow! Why didn't you say ;-) Jul 30 13:51:06 duffyd: capital of nz :P Jul 30 13:51:11 xzcvczx: well I was born there Jul 30 13:51:18 duffyd: ah ok what part? Jul 30 13:51:24 Browns Bay, North Shore Jul 30 13:51:24 duffyd: i was born in hamilton Jul 30 13:51:29 duffyd: lol nice Jul 30 13:51:42 xzcvczx: what's your contact details? Jul 30 13:51:44 duffyd: i got very lost in browns bay the other day Jul 30 13:51:49 xzcvczx: lol Jul 30 13:51:50 duffyd: -> pm Jul 30 13:51:54 ok Jul 30 13:52:03 duffyd, I have relatice there ;) Jul 30 13:52:19 time to relax and snooze Jul 30 13:52:19 FuzzyCat: cool. Where are you based? Jul 30 13:52:20 nite Jul 30 13:53:14 atm in the uk Jul 30 13:53:31 FuzzyCat: what part of the uk Jul 30 13:53:41 the wet bit :P Jul 30 13:53:49 suffolk Jul 30 13:53:52 ah ok Jul 30 13:54:07 at least you didnt say milton keynes...... worst city in the world Jul 30 13:54:20 I went their once... Jul 30 13:54:29 had to locate a sewearage works... Jul 30 13:54:57 lol and how did you find the roundabouts there that are all named with completely useless names so you get soooo lost Jul 30 13:55:17 they were all the bloody same, it was a nightmare Jul 30 13:55:50 FuzzyCat: lol yeah we had the same thing when we went in 2002 Jul 30 13:55:54 everywhere looked the same, I drove round for about 2 hours.. Jul 30 13:56:13 yup Jul 30 13:56:16 thats the one Jul 30 13:56:27 I never want to go again Jul 30 13:56:31 :P Jul 30 13:58:42 FuzzyCat: how often do you return to this awesome place? Jul 30 13:59:28 errm... when's the next blue moon ? Jul 30 13:59:42 in a few weeks :P Jul 30 13:59:54 ahh... wont be then.. Jul 30 14:00:08 nah i dunno Jul 30 14:00:16 l8r all Jul 30 14:01:16 * xzcvczx hates UPS it still says pickup scan after 3 freakin days Jul 30 14:01:17 Milton Keynes shopping centre when it first opened used to have huge pits of lego you just climbed in and built stuff Jul 30 14:01:37 XorA: so thats an excuse for the damn roundabouts? Jul 30 14:01:52 so the kids could stay longer playing in the lego Jul 30 14:02:13 heh heh Jul 30 14:02:28 dammit i just got a universal remote that claims on some sites to be learning but the instruction manual says nothing about it Jul 30 14:03:40 XorA: where are you based? Jul 30 14:03:46 Edinburgh Jul 30 14:03:50 ah ok Jul 30 14:08:02 has anyone with a phone actually said how long the battery lasts for under "normal" usage? Jul 30 14:08:12 xzcvczx: they can't. Jul 30 14:08:22 The power managment stuff is not written. Jul 30 14:08:31 1 of 7 kernel power managment interfaces are done. Jul 30 14:08:51 SpeedEvil: yeah i realise that Jul 30 14:09:01 more just wondering how long it lasts on a charge at current Jul 30 14:09:17 Some 4-8 hours or so, depending on LCD on or off. Jul 30 14:09:33 ah ok, thanks Jul 30 14:12:39 In principle, this can go _way_ up. Jul 30 14:13:13 For example, 8 hours talk-time (with CPU off) or 5 days standby. Jul 30 14:13:26 And 20-30 hours MP3 playback. Jul 30 14:14:18 SpeedEvil: yeah, at the moment i am more interested in the now Jul 30 14:14:19 XorA, I'm from Edinburgh also, small world Jul 30 14:14:21 is the software going to be in a decent enough state for Joe Public to use it with GTA02 in Oct? Jul 30 14:14:36 ewon: i doubt it will be released in oct if its not Jul 30 14:14:50 ewon: ...assuming gta02 is out in oct. xzcvczx: damn your nimble fingers Jul 30 14:14:54 xzcvczx: A nokia 1100 will be a _considerably_ better phone for a long time. Jul 30 14:15:08 SpeedEvil: yeah i realise that Jul 30 14:16:01 SpeedEvil: but meh with the price of services in nz it will probably be better having one that can only sometimes do calling,texting and contacts and runs out of battery all the time :P Jul 30 14:16:35 cjb_ie: i think they are brave to assume oct for including wifi and everything and i consumer ready os Jul 30 14:17:03 i'm just wondering if the hardware will actually be ready, and shipping Jul 30 14:17:19 Zaireeka_: still live here? Jul 30 14:18:18 Hmm. If the GSM bit uses the same power as a Nokia 1100, then it may have a standby time of some 25 days. Jul 30 14:18:33 is that how long the 1100 lasts? Jul 30 14:18:34 Somewhat lower power, as the nokia needs some power for the display. Jul 30 14:18:38 No. Jul 30 14:18:46 oh ok lol Jul 30 14:18:53 The nokia has a smaller battery, and a LCD active at the same time. Jul 30 14:18:59 oh yup Jul 30 14:19:10 This would be in 'off' mode - with just the GSM module active and waiting on a call. Jul 30 14:19:13 SpeedEvil: thx for the info. Can you please lookover --> http://littlehat.homelinux.org:8000/embedded/iPhonevsOpenMoko.html Jul 30 14:21:02 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Devirginator/it]] [[Flashing_openmoko]] [[Application_Developer]] [[Application_Development_Crash_Course]] [[Main_Page/ru]] [[Carriers/ATT]] [[Translation]] Jul 30 14:21:21 XorA: yeah Jul 30 14:21:42 (script) planet: Koen Kooi: Kinetic scrolling on the neo1973 http://dominion.kabel.utwente.nl/koen/cms/kinetic-scrolling-on-the-neo1973 Jul 30 14:21:43 Zaireeka_: wicked Jul 30 14:21:45 StylusEater: Linux 2.6 surely, and it's probably not actually "Illegal to develop new applications" for the iPhone Jul 30 14:22:09 StylusEater: probably just unsupported Jul 30 14:22:22 EULA says it I believe Jul 30 14:22:25 FIC1973 - mono speaker only. Jul 30 14:22:46 EULA saying it does not mean it's binding in many jurisdictions. Jul 30 14:22:49 StylusEater: yes but it wont hold up in court as its reverse enigneering for the purpose of cross compatibility Jul 30 14:23:14 xzcvczx: fixed Jul 30 14:23:27 better? Jul 30 14:23:44 The big problem with the iPhone is that Apple are completely within their rights to have AT&T turn off the hacked phones service. Jul 30 14:24:24 prpplague: hi Jul 30 14:24:25 SpeedEvil: thats legal? Jul 30 14:24:35 StylusEater: yup Jul 30 14:24:45 xzcvczx: read the small print of the contract, and I'm sure that you'll find that clause in there. Jul 30 14:24:59 anything you pay for is legal in the US... haha Jul 30 14:25:29 err rather... in the sense of large companies paying for "special treatment" ... not necessarily other things like drugs... bahh.. whatev Jul 30 14:25:38 On ITAR - http://science.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/07/30/0215204 Jul 30 14:25:54 StylusEater: anythings legal as long as you dont get caught Jul 30 14:27:13 SpeedEvil: oh well if they turn it off then you know longer have the 12month contract with them :P Jul 30 14:27:24 or however long the contract is Jul 30 14:29:04 aloril: that seems extremelyt unresponsive Jul 30 14:29:14 s/extremelyt/extremely/ Jul 30 14:29:15 sandos meant: aloril: that seems extremely unresponsive Jul 30 14:29:33 3 years minimum for AT&T contract afaik Jul 30 14:29:43 * XorA coughs 3 years Jul 30 14:30:06 StylusEater: lol my bad.... cant say i have read too much into the iPhone as it will be ages before it hits our shores Jul 30 14:30:12 nbd: doing any sdio dev today? Jul 30 14:31:04 hope it doesn't Jul 30 14:31:33 prpplague: haven't done any further work on it yet. i don't have the hardware with me right now Jul 30 14:32:09 nbd: ahh ok Jul 30 14:32:20 nbd: give me a shout when you get time Jul 30 14:32:30 nbd: i'll be doing some testing today Jul 30 14:32:44 i think i'll review the controller driver today Jul 30 14:33:20 nbd: okie dokie Jul 30 14:33:36 nbd: are you the network block device? ;) Jul 30 14:33:59 sandos: i think you know the answer to that one ;) Jul 30 14:34:01 nbd: i've written up a module to do some testing with the irq's on the sdi controller Jul 30 14:34:03 haha Jul 30 14:34:24 prpplague: have you looked at my patches/driver yet? Jul 30 14:34:30 nbd: i'd like to get some hard data confirming the irq problems Jul 30 14:34:38 nbd: yea, i looked some on friday Jul 30 14:35:04 nbd: i didn't do a full test, but something definetly looks incorrect on the cmd53 section Jul 30 14:38:46 xzcvczx: If you break the contract on your side, you still have to pay. Jul 30 14:39:26 SpeedEvil: a contract is either terminated or not terminated, it cant hang half terminated, if they cancel you dont have to pay Jul 30 14:39:27 SpeedEvil: but if they turn off your service for "hacking" the iphone they would have issues taking that throught the court system Jul 30 14:39:56 any decent judge would tell them where to jump Jul 30 14:40:21 XorA: you can be in breach of the contract, and yet still obligated to pay them. Jul 30 14:40:39 SpeedEvil: only if they continue to supply service Jul 30 14:40:45 XorA: Consider if you take a hammer to your new hire purchase car. Jul 30 14:41:09 They will not fix it, and you still have to pay, and you don't get service. Jul 30 14:41:10 SpeedEvil: the only way they could do that would be to inisist you "fixed" the phone back to conditions they allow then they will re-allow you on network Jul 30 14:41:50 SpeedEvil: in that case they can actually have you prosecuted for vandalism as they own the car still Jul 30 14:45:12 hmm... I think it would be more like: you do unsanctioned modification to car, they disable motor so you can't drive with it anymore and you still have to pay Jul 30 14:45:31 SpeedEvil: the way i see it is that if you hacked the iphone, at&t cut your service, you stopped paying your bill, at&t took you to court for this, the judge would throw it out based on reverse engineering for purpose of interoperability Jul 30 14:46:31 the 1973 01/02 doesnt/isng going to have ir is it? Jul 30 14:46:45 xzcvczx: no Jul 30 14:46:52 :( Jul 30 14:47:03 would be a nice universal remote :P Jul 30 14:47:13 Well. Jul 30 14:47:26 It hasn't been confirmed what wavelength the LEDs behind the buttons are. Jul 30 14:47:32 :) Jul 30 14:47:33 lol Jul 30 14:47:36 (in 01. Jul 30 14:47:39 aloril, it's more like you do unsanctioned modification to your car, and gas stations are not willing to supply you with gas. Jul 30 14:47:41 02 even Jul 30 14:48:19 Or unsanctioned modification to your gas cylinder, and the gas refillers will not supply it. (as they indeed won't) Jul 30 14:48:35 SpeedEvil: thats because its a safety issue Jul 30 14:48:51 Dmitry_Platonov: hmm.. yeah, but you still need to pay for gas ;-) Jul 30 14:48:51 SpeedEvil: and is only legal as its legislation Jul 30 14:49:01 If the GSM stack is on the CPU of the Iphone, it could also be a safety issue. Jul 30 14:49:13 Hacking it may violate the FCC certification. Jul 30 14:49:27 Also Jul 30 14:49:52 SpeedEvil: its the gsm chip that limits what the phone can do and therefore keeping it within a majority of the FCC Jul 30 14:50:04 my dreams of a free phone come crumbling down :/ Jul 30 14:50:15 Many phones nowadays have the GSM baseband side connected directly to the main CPU. Jul 30 14:50:17 whatever, AT&T disabling iPhone that has user installed programs (aka hacked iPhone) would probably be quite bad pr Jul 30 14:50:26 The main CPU does all the GSM stack stuff. Jul 30 14:50:42 The companion chips are simply radio interfaces and nothing more. Jul 30 14:50:50 SpeedEvil: so i can tell the main CPU to pump out 30 Watts of power over the 800mhz range Jul 30 14:51:22 The problem is more that two users decide to do peer-peer data transfer. Jul 30 14:51:26 Which is 'free'. Jul 30 14:51:45 And coincidentally jams 8 other users of the channel unless they are much closer to the tower than the two users. Jul 30 14:52:02 SpeedEvil: i just liked the old motorola startacs that you could use to listen in on other peoples conversations Jul 30 14:54:02 there should be an another channel for philosofical stuff and such Jul 30 14:54:04 :) Jul 30 14:54:08 lol Jul 30 14:54:12 And spelling corrections. Jul 30 14:54:24 dunno about that Jul 30 14:56:13 i am just wondering but with the neo would you be technically able to effectively 'clone' the simcard onto the phone and then have the ability to software switch between simcards Jul 30 14:56:32 * Stephmw scratches his head... Jul 30 14:56:39 i think simcards are meant to be too intelligent to let you do that. Jul 30 14:56:41 don't think you can get at the bits you'd need Jul 30 14:56:49 too black-box Jul 30 14:57:25 cjb_ie: do they really have a need to be when they are peered with an imei at boot so you need to clone the imsi and the imei to "clone" a cellphone number Jul 30 14:58:12 Stephmw: you should be able to get at all the bits that the gsm part of the phone can thought technically therefore you should have enough information to 'clone' it Jul 30 14:58:36 xzcvczx: you IMSI paried with your Ki is your phone account, Ki you need to hack SIM to obtain Jul 30 14:59:47 oh ok, my bad Jul 30 14:59:50 obtaining Ki is not easy, and barring bugs in some implementations of RUN GSM ALGORITHM you need a lot of skill and a FIB machine to do it Jul 30 15:00:01 talking a couple million quid Jul 30 15:00:33 XorA: but doesnt the gsm chip in the phone need the ki? Jul 30 15:00:58 xzcvczx: no, its all done inside SIM, phone only sees the result of calculation Jul 30 15:01:12 well that shuts me up Jul 30 15:01:21 thanks :) Jul 30 15:01:30 * XorA wrote a SIM Jul 30 15:01:48 run gsm run Jul 30 15:02:31 DMCA violation anyone? Jul 30 15:03:25 I think there are SIM cloning tools Jul 30 15:03:57 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:S-IC_engines_and_Von_Braun.jpg Jul 30 15:04:25 hey guys anyone have a bitbake file that'll build a gtk app? Jul 30 15:05:48 now there's a hole in the phone wishlish Jul 30 15:06:00 does bitbake have relation with portage? .bb syntax seems very like .ebuild Jul 30 15:06:02 didn't feel like correcting all the index numbers of everyone Jul 30 15:06:04 :) Jul 30 15:06:12 dmitry yes they're related Jul 30 15:06:14 hope it doesn't bug anyone Jul 30 15:06:54 Dmitry_Platonov: are you running gentoo? Jul 30 15:07:03 hena, such things should be numbered lists anyway. Jul 30 15:07:10 xzcvczx, yes. Jul 30 15:07:52 Dmitry_Platonov: have you been able to successfully run 'make openmoko-devel-image' on the gentoo box using mokomakefile?? Jul 30 15:09:27 xzcvczx, not tried yet. Jul 30 15:09:59 oh ok Jul 30 15:11:01 it crashes for me with libx11 as some of the files dont get compiled correctly into ELF executables and just come out as data Jul 30 15:15:51 hi Jul 30 15:16:51 Hello Master Jul 30 15:17:23 lol someone is sadistic Jul 30 15:17:54 Is there a new project for OpenMoko i could help to develop ? Jul 30 15:18:11 so nobody have a bitbake file that compiles a gtk app? Jul 30 15:18:18 s/have/has Jul 30 15:19:34 BryceLeo: did you look through the Openembedded repository? (http://www.openembedded.org/filebrowser/org.openembedded.dev/packages) Jul 30 15:20:07 kensan most of those run makefiles and don't build in the bitbake file itself Jul 30 15:20:51 make update-makefile; make update ? Jul 30 15:23:04 BryceLeo: ic. how about Angstrom? (http://www.angstrom-distribution.org/repo/) Jul 30 15:23:08 BryceLeo: I'm yet to encounter a package that doesn't make use of AutoMake Jul 30 15:26:04 Do you guys know what a german Biergarten is? Jul 30 15:26:22 Translated : Beergarden Jul 30 15:26:32 <_diego__> sound interesting :) Jul 30 15:26:59 Thats where im leaving now Jul 30 15:27:46 drinking a Hefeweizen Jul 30 15:27:55 kensan angstromg is x11 not gtk from what i'm lookign at Jul 30 15:28:13 abraxa: dang... well that's a bit of a pain Jul 30 15:28:16 there any other non us people here whos phones have been shipped? Jul 30 15:28:22 BryceLeo: that sentence made no sense at all Jul 30 15:28:45 BryceLeo: Angstrom is a distro, not a windowing system Jul 30 15:31:14 as I understand, Angstrom is derivative of OE, and so is OpenMoko. Right? Jul 30 15:32:27 Dmitry_Platonov: OE is a tool. Angstrom and OpenMoko distributiona re created using this tool Jul 30 15:33:10 stefan_schmidt: OK I'm restarting build now. Jul 30 15:33:19 oups, sorry, bad window :) Jul 30 15:35:35 what's the best way to check that the sound is functional on the neo? Jul 30 15:35:43 * compbrain stabs UPS Jul 30 15:35:47 play foo.wav perhaps Jul 30 15:35:59 My neo is less than 20 minutes away, and has been for the last four days Jul 30 15:36:03 nice Jul 30 15:36:05 you can madplay an mp3 Jul 30 15:36:20 from command line Jul 30 15:36:39 play works from commandline Jul 30 15:36:42 as does cat foo > /dev/dsp Jul 30 15:36:46 or somesuch Jul 30 15:36:53 * xzcvczx gives compbrain a bigger knife Jul 30 15:37:04 cheers Jul 30 15:37:07 xora what do you mean? Jul 30 15:37:39 ewon: i remember back in the days when i wasnt very familiar with linux being told to do the old cat /dev/urandom > /dev/dsp and having my speakers turned up a wee bit too loud Jul 30 15:38:52 nic Jul 30 15:38:53 e Jul 30 15:38:59 compbrain: where are you based? Jul 30 15:39:47 Boston Jul 30 15:40:15 as either they are just being lazy with scanning mine or it still hasnt been picked up i dont know which but i believe it should have been picked up by now Jul 30 15:40:45 xzcvczx, are you running ~x86? Jul 30 15:40:59 Mine is sitting at the UPS warehouse, because its Ground shipping they have no motivation to put it on one of the 30 trucks making the trip from the dist center to Boston Jul 30 15:42:48 Dmitry_Platonov: yup Jul 30 15:44:41 i wish they had used fed-ex Jul 30 15:45:01 last time i used fed-ex i had much more reliable and informative shipping information Jul 30 15:45:16 xzcvczx, monotone does not builds for me. :-/ Jul 30 15:45:38 can it be gcc-4.2 related? Jul 30 15:46:02 monotone compiled fine for me using gcc-4.1 Jul 30 15:46:09 am installing 4.2 now Jul 30 15:46:22 but then after that i am going to emerge 3.x to try that Jul 30 15:46:26 openmoko: 03njp * r2572 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/artwork/themes/openmoko-standard-2/gtk-2.0/gtkbutton: * Make sure labels that are inside buttons are white. Jul 30 15:47:41 Dmitry_Platonov: as qemu definately wont compile with 4.x Jul 30 15:48:31 xzcvczx, I have 3.4.6 and 4.1.2 too. Jul 30 15:50:36 change the profile using ummm whats it called Jul 30 15:50:45 gcc-config Jul 30 15:50:46 gcc-config. I know Jul 30 15:50:56 does that not help? Jul 30 15:51:21 I'll check another day. Jul 30 15:51:24 oh ok Jul 30 15:53:19 hi Jul 30 16:03:59 openmoko: 03chris * r2573 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-today2/ (ChangeLog src/today-task-manager.c src/today.h): Add a tasks list (mostly stolen from matchbox-panel-2) Jul 30 16:06:17 whoooo http://www.angstrom-distribution.org/~koen/neo-scroll.avi Jul 30 16:06:54 smooooth Jul 30 16:06:55 hhf423: Also nice: http://chrislord.net/files/mokofingerscroll.ogg Jul 30 16:07:11 hmm, it doesnt compare well with the iphone scroll Jul 30 16:07:22 smooth like a barrel of sandpaper Jul 30 16:07:29 alp: spot on Jul 30 16:07:36 Smooth scrolling is a bitch. Jul 30 16:07:38 Hmm. Jul 30 16:07:44 also, the scroll doesn't follow the finger Jul 30 16:07:51 I wonder if there are any general purpose DMA engines. Jul 30 16:07:53 which it does on the iphone Jul 30 16:07:53 stefan_schmidt: yes, thats the same Jul 30 16:08:14 SpeedEvil: Xrender should be good enough Jul 30 16:08:14 hhf423: No, one is one the phone and one on the pc ;) Jul 30 16:08:22 robtaylor: Send patches. :) Jul 30 16:08:25 robtaylor: the hardware Jul 30 16:08:27 ah, ok Jul 30 16:08:41 robtaylor: there is no blitter, it's a dumb framebuffere. Jul 30 16:08:46 SpeedEvil: well, GTA02 has some pretty hard pixel-pushing power Jul 30 16:08:55 Ah - I was assuming this was 01. Jul 30 16:09:05 SpeedEvil: it is Jul 30 16:09:13 SpeedEvil: we could do fullscreen scrolling on planer framebuffers on the atari ST Jul 30 16:09:27 SpeedEvil: i'd expect a 220MHz samsung to be able to do it Jul 30 16:09:31 robtaylor, alp: the video framerate is set to 10fps. Jul 30 16:09:36 At 60Hz and 640*480*3? Jul 30 16:10:15 * hhf423 hopes that this is not an other day without payment note from openmoko Jul 30 16:10:18 robster: so its smoother IRL? Jul 30 16:10:18 That's 165 megabytes/second of data transfer. Jul 30 16:10:42 robster: so its smoother IRL? http://www.angstrom-distribution.org/~koen/neo-scroll.avi doesntr seem much smoother Jul 30 16:10:56 robster: ans the physics are still wrong ;) Jul 30 16:11:03 it's just a matter of details Jul 30 16:11:14 robtaylor: koen's uses the old pixmap theme. Jul 30 16:13:15 robster: so thats a yes then? :) Jul 30 16:15:49 robtaylor: yeh, grab the code and try it out. Jul 30 16:16:18 robtaylor: we demoed it to lots of people at GUADEC who all seemed impressed. Jul 30 16:17:07 hi ppl. i got the device and it is sweet. Jul 30 16:17:17 got a question, how can I learn the imei number? Jul 30 16:18:59 robtaylor: I honestly fail to see what in koen's movie is not smooth Jul 30 16:19:00 usually, it's written into your phone Jul 30 16:19:52 if not, it's prolly on some paper that came with the phone Jul 30 16:20:56 Has anyone here got a neo in the UK yet? Jul 30 16:21:42 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[FAQ/fr]] [[Trademark_Policy]] [[Main_Page]] [[P1_Owners]] [[Buying_Interest_List]] [[User:Thomas_Mathiesen]] [[Hardware:Neo1973:Alternate_Cases:Camera]] [[OpenMoko_under_QEMU]] [[Building_Gadget_USB_Module]] Jul 30 16:22:09 ka05: yes, arrived today Jul 30 16:22:12 I can't see it written anywhere. i wonder if I see it from software, say /dev/something.. Jul 30 16:22:19 you have to pay customs charges? Jul 30 16:22:33 £43.41 Jul 30 16:22:43 :( Just ordered mine. Jul 30 16:22:49 How long did it take? Jul 30 16:23:19 I chose express delivery so it was 3 days from dispatch to arrival Jul 30 16:23:26 abraxa_: its lagging atleast 1s after the finger? Its ot unsmooth, but the movement is not tracking the finger at all Jul 30 16:23:40 sandos: That's intentional Jul 30 16:23:45 ah ok Jul 30 16:23:52 I chose that too, so that's good news! Thanks! Jul 30 16:24:13 nbd: hmm, definetly not receiving sdio interrupts via the sdio controller on the s3c2410 Jul 30 16:24:25 Im very sensitive to laggy interfaces :) (most phones today have this problem, espcialy Nokias I think) Jul 30 16:24:37 the 3310/3330 were beatiful in that regrd Jul 30 16:24:44 sandos: It's so that you don't have to constantly have to do the finger movement if you want to keep scrolling - just do it fast once and it will keep scrolling for a bit Jul 30 16:24:55 prpplague: can you do io_rw_extended on it? Jul 30 16:25:09 abraxa_: thats not what I meant. it doesnt seem to react to the movement for quite a while Jul 30 16:25:32 anyway, I will shut up now. ITs not that important.. I will explore this whenever I buy a device :) Jul 30 16:25:35 ka05: you are probably looking at least 2weeks to a month until you get yours Jul 30 16:26:01 sandos: My personal opinion is that it's very usable, that's all I can say really :) Jul 30 16:26:02 nbd: i've not tested with your patches/code yet Jul 30 16:26:24 nbd: i was mainly trying to find out if the irq's from card to host were working, and they aren't Jul 30 16:27:08 xzcvczx: okay :( Jul 30 16:27:45 nbd: thats definetly going to implact hardware and performance for next gen neo with wifi Jul 30 16:28:20 prpplague: sorry, I just joined, but what is going to impact performace ? Jul 30 16:28:28 cd l Jul 30 16:28:41 oops :) Jul 30 16:29:19 bassinboy: i'm working on a similiar hardware platform as the neo with sdio, it appears that the sdio controller on the s3c2410(and possible the s3c2440) is not detecting sdio interrupts from the card to the host Jul 30 16:29:46 that's not goo Jul 30 16:29:51 good, rather Jul 30 16:30:32 bassinboy: yea Jul 30 16:30:58 bassinboy: if thats the case, an external interrupt is going to have to be used for card to host irqs Jul 30 16:31:13 should be resolved before October you think? Jul 30 16:32:03 bassinboy: i can't speak for the fic/neo people as i have no involvement with them other than to discuss s3c2410/2440 sdio code issues Jul 30 16:32:21 abraxa_: the last bit, where he scrolls it quickly Jul 30 16:34:10 robtaylor: try it yourself and see what you think. You cant tell that much from a crappy camera phone video and using a very slow theme engine Jul 30 16:34:41 ka05: IMO 2 weeks would be _very_ optimistic. Jul 30 16:34:51 robtaylor: Welp, all I can say is that I've seen it live on a P1 and found it smooth - the P2 will have even more horse power so I'm not worried at all :) Jul 30 16:35:30 SpeedEvil: well cmon you dont want to beat him when hes down Jul 30 16:37:10 Hello everyone. Just got my phone and after some trial and error was able to flash the kernel and rootfs. But I think the USB reset froze my linux laptop. Anybody else had the same experience? Jul 30 16:38:49 xzcvczx: yeah - it's just IMO I'd rather be informed. Jul 30 16:39:15 SpeedEvil: amen. Jul 30 16:40:32 :P yeah me too Jul 30 16:48:45 mallum: i'm sure any smoothness issues are fixable, the main thing that worries me is if its possible to get the physics right with gtk Jul 30 16:49:14 robtaylor: uh, would would it not be? What does that have to do with GTK? Jul 30 16:49:24 hello Jul 30 16:50:04 s/would w/why w/ Jul 30 16:50:05 sandos meant: robtaylor: uh, why would it not be? What does that have to do with GTK? Jul 30 16:51:22 (script) openmoko-community: Sean Moss-Pultz Re: OpenMoko future. Jul 30 16:51:50 robtaylor: I didn't realise you were experienced enough with gtk to make that kind of judgement Jul 30 16:52:42 so, my phone should be here today; is the report still that AT&T sims are not working? Jul 30 16:52:55 bye Jul 30 16:54:08 mallum: harsh, but fair.. Jul 30 16:54:35 mallum: tell you what, i'll try submitting a patch ;) Jul 30 16:54:48 that sounds good Jul 30 16:54:49 :) Jul 30 16:55:04 robtaylor: yes please. actions speak louder than words Jul 30 16:56:59 Im pretty sure its not yet perfect Jul 30 16:57:05 mallum: is there a test app for it? Jul 30 16:57:07 daMaestro: still not working Jul 30 16:57:34 * robtaylor delves around in moko svn Jul 30 16:57:56 ah, applications/fingerscroll groovy Jul 30 16:57:57 robtaylor: youd have to ask chris , I am not aware of details on it Jul 30 16:58:09 rushforth, grrr Jul 30 16:58:20 that royally sucks Jul 30 16:58:26 robtaylor: make sure you try it on device though and with correct theme :) Jul 30 16:58:27 daMaestro: I just ordered a 2g 32k sim from ebay that is att compatible Jul 30 16:58:29 * rushforth crosses fingers Jul 30 16:58:44 daMaestro: only was 10 dollars (including shipping) Jul 30 16:58:49 rushforth, please let us know Jul 30 16:58:55 daMaestro: indeed Jul 30 16:59:43 rushforth, i'm also going to go poke some people that i know @ att and see if there is a "special" program to get 2G sims Jul 30 17:00:32 daMaestro: nice. worth a shot! Jul 30 17:00:47 mallum: no device here, i'm afriad :/ Jul 30 17:01:10 mickeyl: this is the scrollbarstuff for the left and right buttons http://windbuechse.samba-tng.org/gtkscrollbar_leftright.tar.bz Jul 30 17:01:36 noon: ah right. thanks Jul 30 17:01:37 * mickeyl grabs it Jul 30 17:03:00 robtaylor: ah :/ maybe use an n800 (not sure how good that would be) Jul 30 17:03:39 mallum: yeah. I'll try getting it right with mouse pointer first ;) Jul 30 17:04:15 who is wiki user Harrisonmetz ? Jul 30 17:04:51 i just wonder if the information added is for a non-working SIM card Jul 30 17:04:58 i think it is because it is 3G Jul 30 17:06:33 daMaestro: no, IIRC some have tested 'broken' SIMs in GSM only phones, with success. Jul 30 17:08:50 I have a 3G SIM in my five year old siemens C55 Jul 30 17:09:03 does it work in the neo? Jul 30 17:11:02 have anybody a neopouch here and can shot a photo from the place were we can keep the stylus? Jul 30 17:14:17 I don't think the problem is with all 3G SIM cards, I was able to make a call with a 3G, it may be AT&T specific Jul 30 17:15:52 Zaireeka_, ahh... good to know Jul 30 17:16:15 Zaireeka_, so more and more it sounds like SIM Sentry? Jul 30 17:16:18 ;-) Jul 30 17:16:41 * xzcvczx hopes that our single sim card provider's sim cards work Jul 30 17:20:20 ahh... wont be then..:wq Jul 30 17:20:32 Ouch! Jul 30 17:20:46 FuzzyCat: ??? Jul 30 17:20:52 * FuzzyCat got stung for import duty Jul 30 17:21:07 damn.... how much Jul 30 17:21:11 87.90 Jul 30 17:21:14 euros Jul 30 17:21:19 :O Jul 30 17:21:22 FuzzyCat, from where? Jul 30 17:21:22 ouch Jul 30 17:21:26 * FuzzyCat cries Jul 30 17:21:34 .nl Jul 30 17:22:20 i didn't receive any tracking information, whom should i ask? just got an order shipped confirmation from rt Jul 30 17:22:27 i emailed UPS asking wtf is up with their crap tracking system.... havent got a reply yet but they have added the billing information received to my tracking page Jul 30 17:23:50 is their someone from german who got his neo today? Jul 30 17:24:05 i have to pay 180€ VAT for two neos Jul 30 17:24:07 wtf? Jul 30 17:24:07 DaMeastro: I'm on the line with att right now Jul 30 17:24:19 thats nearly 40% Jul 30 17:24:50 do have to pay chinese and german VAT or something like that? Jul 30 17:24:58 Of course AT&T dosent really want to tell me stuff Jul 30 17:25:07 borg_: doesn't sound right Jul 30 17:25:12 daMaestro: After playing phone tag with at&t I'm now on hold for tech support Jul 30 17:25:40 the vat in germany isn't that high, right? Jul 30 17:25:40 They asked for my phone model number I otld them they would not know about it. they said they would Jul 30 17:25:50 guaqua: 19% Jul 30 17:25:58 calamous1_, is the call going out of the country? :) Jul 30 17:26:01 its exactly doubled i think Jul 30 17:26:05 Then I said its a neo 1973 rev1.4 and they said, of course, they did not know about it Jul 30 17:26:31 No. I'm in the U.S. and I'm calling at&t to inquire about the sim card problems Jul 30 17:26:55 calamous1_, i meant the tech support call Jul 30 17:27:10 Not sure, still on hold Jul 30 17:27:17 I'm going to ask what voltage their sim card is Jul 30 17:27:50 (my prepaid sim seems to "work" in addition to my regular one, as far as the Neo is actually working :] ) Jul 30 17:28:20 mjr: is your prepaid at&t? Jul 30 17:28:38 no, DNA; I'm in Finland Jul 30 17:28:49 just thought I'd provide more datapoints on sims that work Jul 30 17:28:49 mjr: well. thats why it works ;p Jul 30 17:29:06 mjr: If you were in "the land of the free" your phone would not work Jul 30 17:29:37 (For anyone who dosent know, for some strange reason, the U.S. Calls itself "the land of the free") Jul 30 17:29:46 havent figured out why? Jul 30 17:29:47 and the home of the brave Jul 30 17:30:01 calamous1_, yeah, I know. The top brass likes to make people think that, methinks. Jul 30 17:30:02 Hmm. Jul 30 17:30:06 calamous1_, *called Jul 30 17:30:08 Opensource ionosphere models. Jul 30 17:30:10 http://ccmc.gsfc.nasa.gov/models/models_at_glance.php Jul 30 17:31:40 required a hard reboot for gsmd to come back... Jul 30 17:32:14 the gsm chip was probably in an unexpected state or something Jul 30 17:34:59 yay, bidirectional voice if a call :) Jul 30 17:35:23 woot. Jul 30 17:35:31 models? Jul 30 17:35:33 did you need a particular asound.state? Jul 30 17:35:40 I couldn't seem to get mic working with mine. Jul 30 17:35:43 ah. not what I expected. Jul 30 17:35:46 on the gsmheadset.state; the wiki-linked gsmhandset.state didn't seem to enable the Jul 30 17:35:52 mic Jul 30 17:36:23 yeah, the image's gsmhandset.state had that terrible feedback, the wiki-linked silenced my mike Jul 30 17:36:38 aand gsmd died again Jul 30 17:36:46 so not ready for prime time :] Jul 30 17:38:11 where do you folks send bug reports, updates? i don't see many e-mails in device-owners or kernel Jul 30 17:38:15 but yeah, if someone has an actually working gsmhandset.state, I would be somewhat interested; I'm not feeling like tinkering with the mixer right now Jul 30 17:41:21 I'm pretty sure the mic at least physically works though, what with that feedback on the faulty state ;) Jul 30 17:41:49 MWhahahahahahha Jul 30 17:41:53 my phone just got here Jul 30 17:42:00 daMaestro, *hi-5* Jul 30 17:43:25 daMaestro: I called at&t and the guy was very helpful, but he did not know the voltage of the sim card Jul 30 17:43:35 so he wasn't that helpful then ;) Jul 30 17:43:52 He wanted to be helpful Jul 30 17:44:18 he wanted a paycheck. to get that paycheck, he needs to appear to want to be helpful. :) Jul 30 17:44:19 ah, he obviously hasn't been working there long enough for apathy to set in. Jul 30 17:44:33 anyone know why I can't SSH into my phone anymore. I turned it on for the first time today and it said the SSH key changed so I had to remove it from my knownhosts file but It wont let me in Jul 30 17:44:39 it's scary that they bough brokenmoko.com Jul 30 17:45:20 so, the "some assembly required" is going to make a nice coaster Jul 30 17:45:20 lol Jul 30 17:45:32 Yeah. I liked that one too Jul 30 17:45:44 who bought brokenmoko? Jul 30 17:45:55 who? Jul 30 17:46:24 http://openmoko.com/about-01-coreteam.html Jul 30 17:46:45 SpeedEvil: do you know what clock bias in ns means? Jul 30 17:47:32 i would imagine it's how far the clock edge leads or trails the data edge, in nanoseconds Jul 30 17:48:39 cjb_ie, you must have not gotten your neo yet Jul 30 17:48:52 noon - in what context? Jul 30 17:49:16 daMaestro: not getting one, gta02 maybe. too busy to do any devel work atm :( Jul 30 17:49:17 to get the 'adjusted' pseudorange out of my receiver i have to "adjust pseudorange by subtracting clock bias times the speed of light" Jul 30 17:49:45 Going to depend on the reciever. Jul 30 17:49:48 I think. Jul 30 17:50:07 Several nanoseconds probably. Jul 30 17:50:10 SpeedEvil: I try to get the pseudorange and the carrier frequency out of my sirf3 so I can compare it with elronds values on sunday Jul 30 17:50:38 cjb - harald on july 3rd Jul 30 17:50:53 i think that was right about when he was being driven mad Jul 30 17:50:53 noon: I can print them off easily. Though only to 1m/s accuracy. Jul 30 17:51:08 I thought brokenmoko was pretty funny Jul 30 17:51:35 yeah Jul 30 17:51:41 it looks like harald personally bought it Jul 30 17:51:43 SpeedEvil: so all my cabeling was for nothing? Jul 30 17:52:38 well - having 1mm/s or so would be nicer. Though I'm awaiting a response on the softwares ML to see if it can do 1mm/s Jul 30 17:53:32 blah.. that really, really sucks that GPS isn't working Jul 30 17:53:34 noon: try find a sirfstar2 Jul 30 17:53:39 when is that lameness going to go away? Jul 30 17:53:54 they're less sensitive than sirf3, but more hackab;e Jul 30 17:53:56 daMaestro: the binary driver is being distributed 'really soon'. Jul 30 17:54:00 *hackable Jul 30 17:54:01 daMaestro: when you help maybe faster Jul 30 17:54:03 didn't some phones have it? Jul 30 17:54:07 yeah, i just read that Jul 30 17:54:19 i haven't checked my flash dump yet Jul 30 17:54:26 noon, hey! i've been twiddling my thumbs waiting on ups Jul 30 17:54:28 not my fault Jul 30 17:54:29 ;-) Jul 30 17:55:02 oooh - koen's video looks nice Jul 30 17:55:18 i think i might have to try a 2007.2 build ;) Jul 30 17:55:49 i have sent e-mail to William asking for tracking information; an e-mail sent to rt at openmoko dot com, gives a reply "Permission Denied" :( Jul 30 17:55:59 SpeedEvil: what values would help, from a working gps receiver? Jul 30 17:56:00 (or a current angstrom build...) Jul 30 17:56:49 hmm! How come when I start the phone *sometimes* gsmd is running and somtimes its not? Jul 30 17:57:04 nasty timing bugs :/ Jul 30 17:57:08 same simcard and everything. but like on every 3rd boot its up Jul 30 17:57:31 mickey thats messed up Jul 30 17:57:52 noticed gsmd dies quite often when playing around with it (libgsmd-tool) Jul 30 17:57:54 gsmd might be starting too soon...? Jul 30 17:58:09 is there an arm version of valgrind? Jul 30 17:58:15 nope. Jul 30 17:58:18 x86 only, alas. Jul 30 17:58:18 thought not Jul 30 17:58:24 last I checked, anyway Jul 30 17:58:25 damn hard to port too, i'd imagine Jul 30 17:58:26 not even amd64 Jul 30 17:58:30 ouch Jul 30 17:58:41 given it's a whole freakin VM it wouldn't be so much a port as a re-write :) Jul 30 17:58:44 yeah ;) Jul 30 17:58:45 noon: IMO - not much really. Jul 30 17:59:05 it'd be interesting to add valgrind-type 'hooks' to qemu but that would be very hard too Jul 30 17:59:36 you would have to know the codebase as well as fabrice bellard to pull it off... ;) Jul 30 17:59:45 noon: IMO - the key is a nice long trace with several satellites sweeping the range of velocities. Jul 30 17:59:49 does anyone know the license if dfu-util ? Jul 30 17:59:53 s/if/of/ Jul 30 17:59:53 daMaestro meant: does anyone know the license of dfu-util ? Jul 30 17:59:54 Maybe a 6 hour trace. Jul 30 17:59:56 i want to package it Jul 30 17:59:57 gpl2 i'd imagine Jul 30 18:00:15 yeah.. it is thanks. Jul 30 18:00:39 i'm basically not going to use any util without packaging it first Jul 30 18:00:48 confirmed Jul 30 18:02:33 from HH or the sirf3? Jul 30 18:02:33 who is the contact person (and e-mail) for projects.openmoko.org? Jul 30 18:03:27 noon - HH Jul 30 18:03:56 noon - the confirmation that it is really doppler can be gotten from longtrace - looking at all the sats. Jul 30 18:04:01 SpeedEvil: How do I get the GPS driver since my phone did not ship with a rootfs Jul 30 18:04:15 calamous1_: you hope that someone will DCC or email you it. Jul 30 18:04:29 It's copyrighted software, and cannot be legally distributed. Jul 30 18:04:45 It's going to be releast 'real soon'. Jul 30 18:04:53 SpeedEvil: lol ty. Could the neo team not find any GPS that was open drivers Jul 30 18:05:08 calamous1_: larger, higher current, more expensive. Jul 30 18:05:38 calamous1_: and potentially less flexible. Jul 30 18:05:51 Iam not making any judgement, but they settled for a "tainted" (in terms of software licences) system for a better GPS than an open one but worse Jul 30 18:06:46 calamous1_: it was originally to be wince mobile I think and GPS was before Harald came in to project Jul 30 18:06:47 noon - the next bit to be done is to attempt to work out the signal output on various dopplers watching gllins output. Jul 30 18:06:53 and there was me thinking all one needed was sirfmon :/ Jul 30 18:06:58 GTA02 might have fully free GPS Jul 30 18:07:00 mbuf: just mail to -devel list Jul 30 18:07:11 mickeyl, ok Jul 30 18:07:37 will it be as good (sensitive, multichannel) as sirf3 though? Jul 30 18:08:08 aloril: It's quite possible that a OSS driver will be at least partially functional by Oct. Jul 30 18:08:42 The hardware is _certainly_ not changing in that major a way. Jul 30 18:08:46 SpeedEvil: yeah, it sounds reverse engineering is proceeding nicely Jul 30 18:13:41 * daMaestro is having to force himself to package software and not just build it Jul 30 18:13:41 lol Jul 30 18:13:44 curious, can't unmount the microsd; "Inappropriate ioctl for device" Jul 30 18:13:50 i have not even taken the neo out of the box Jul 30 18:14:49 btw, if anyone inside OM/FIC wants the srpms for all the software i am packaging, just let me know Jul 30 18:15:18 my only current target is fc6+ ... and there are plenty of rpm based distros that could use the srpm Jul 30 18:15:27 i would expect i'll manage the epel branch too Jul 30 18:15:39 daMaestro: drop us a note @ the devel list, please. Jul 30 18:15:45 will do Jul 30 18:16:09 * mbuf subscribes to devel Jul 30 18:16:35 hahaa :) Jul 30 18:16:58 bluetooth keyboard hooks up nicely Jul 30 18:17:13 to the Neo? Jul 30 18:17:19 yeah Jul 30 18:17:28 excellent! Jul 30 18:17:34 mjr: please blog about it :) Jul 30 18:17:43 * mickeyl has 4 prototype models but none has working BT Jul 30 18:17:44 sigh Jul 30 18:17:50 just enabled bt, and ran hidd --connect [address] Jul 30 18:17:50 Bluetooth is not that I want to use for sending out my passwords ;) Jul 30 18:18:07 chris^, yeah well, that's why we have ssh public key auth :) Jul 30 18:18:18 over bluetooth? Jul 30 18:18:23 nice! Jul 30 18:18:29 umm, no Jul 30 18:18:40 I got it!!!!!!!! Jul 30 18:18:44 well, but if I type ma passwords on the bluetooth keyboard Jul 30 18:18:45 I just meant that one can ssh out of the phone without typing in passwords Jul 30 18:18:47 and anyone sniffs it Jul 30 18:18:49 :_) Jul 30 18:18:53 what is the simple and best way to parse files on openmoko? does gtk have some functions; if I use awk how can i interface it with gtk? Jul 30 18:19:02 mjr: :) Jul 30 18:19:12 is anyone from the devs at the ccc camp? Jul 30 18:19:14 but if you have in-phone passwords, yeah, a more careful person will use the on-screen keyboard for that Jul 30 18:19:47 chris^: yes. a lot of. at least Laforge, Stefan Schmidt, Daniel 'alphaone' Willmann, Joachim 'Roh' Steiger Jul 30 18:19:54 Jan Shoragan Luebbe Jul 30 18:19:56 possibly me Jul 30 18:20:05 ahh cool Jul 30 18:20:26 well I don't know that Harald will come Jul 30 18:20:31 but will be really interesting Jul 30 18:20:37 he's deep into CCC, he won't miss that Jul 30 18:20:42 ;) Jul 30 18:21:42 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[OpenMoko2008]] [[OpenMoko2007.2]] [[Devirginator/it]] [[Application_Development_Crash_Course]] [[Devirginator]] [[Hardware:Neo1973:Alternate_Cases:Camera]] [[Carriers/ATT]] [[Carriers/TMobile]] [[FAQ/fr]] [[Flashing_openmoko]] Jul 30 18:26:00 sounds like a fun meetup Jul 30 18:26:19 mickeyl: you have to come Jul 30 18:26:44 mickeyl: I won't be able to complete the GSoC stuff if you don't visit us Jul 30 18:26:47 zecke: i would love to... but given my insane travel schedule this year i don't know whether I can do it Jul 30 18:26:49 hah Jul 30 18:26:52 that's blackmailing :D Jul 30 18:27:14 zecke: You gotta meet him, too, yes :) Jul 30 18:27:37 i already received internal pressure for doing more talking than developing lately... Jul 30 18:28:00 They just don't realize what you're doing for the community. Jul 30 18:28:03 ;D Jul 30 18:28:06 :) Jul 30 18:28:22 mickeyl: then come to the camp, leave your phone at home and focus on hacking (at least this is my plan) Jul 30 18:28:36 zecke, what are you doing for SoC? Jul 30 18:28:38 the thing is... I'm working since a couple of weeks on that 18 months software roadmap and it goes slow like molasses Jul 30 18:28:47 zecke: sounds like a good plan Jul 30 18:28:56 heh, here was me all pleased with getting 1000hits a month to my website.. according to a mate in the know, I'd get around 10eur/year with Adsense ;_; Jul 30 18:33:24 bbiab Jul 30 18:41:41 sweet should have phone by 5pm thursday Jul 30 18:42:10 xzcvczx: Are you part of the 2nd shipment? Jul 30 18:42:23 nah i think i was one of the last first shipment Jul 30 18:42:27 2540 Jul 30 18:43:07 You're one of those non-US people, aren't you? :-) Jul 30 18:43:12 mallum: well, its certainly possible :) Jul 30 18:43:30 ozarka: i dont know whether to say forutunately or unfortunately to that Jul 30 18:43:36 in this case its unfortunate Jul 30 18:43:45 but in all other cases its fortunate Jul 30 18:44:08 I ordered an orange unit and my priveledged American status isn't helping me at all. Jul 30 18:44:21 whats your number Jul 30 18:44:24 damn, he's gone :/ Jul 30 18:44:47 2742 Jul 30 18:44:52 stefan_schmidt: you might want to give this a play: http://codethink.co.uk/~robtaylor/fingerscroll-more-physics.patch Jul 30 18:45:04 I wasn't in the first 500 anyway. Jul 30 18:45:08 yeah Jul 30 18:45:23 based on P1_Owners i guess i was one of the last for the first Jul 30 18:45:53 stefan_schmidt: its not perfect, there's some corner cases, approximation errors, and no friction on stop, but its worth a play :) Jul 30 18:46:09 ozarka: at least you dont have to pay $60 USD shipping wait a week and not even get up to date tracking information Jul 30 18:46:53 You're in New Zealand? Jul 30 18:47:18 yerp Jul 30 18:47:48 Do you get your shipments via trained sheep? Jul 30 18:48:06 Please don't let this man torture me. Jul 30 18:48:10 nah the sheep train the americans to deliver them Jul 30 18:48:27 Oh yeah, that would take a long time. :-) Jul 30 18:48:32 where in the states are you Jul 30 18:48:37 Texas Jul 30 18:48:47 So did they ship your device from China to the US then to NZ? Jul 30 18:49:14 they shipped *all* devices from china->fremont, ca, us Jul 30 18:49:14 ozarka: yeah most of the americans die of old age before they can be taught how to do even simple things that it takes a dog 5 mins to learn like sit Jul 30 18:49:54 ozarka: indeed.... its an incredibly efficient way to do it... esspecially when there are people based in taiwan Jul 30 18:50:47 It will be a well travelled device by the time it gets to you. Jul 30 18:51:24 ozarka: yes..... Jul 30 18:52:12 Are Someone starting with SH1 ? Jul 30 18:54:54 http://repo.damaestro.us/fedora/personal/7/i386/dfu-util-2573.svn-1.fc7.src.rpm if anyone wants it Jul 30 18:55:00 i'm going to do some testing now Jul 30 18:55:16 * xzcvczx hopes he has more luck than Psi_ and doesnt have his package caught up at customs for a couple of days Jul 30 18:56:04 me too Jul 30 18:58:18 Mandarino: what number are you? Jul 30 19:02:16 the moss-pultz interview is up Jul 30 19:02:19 the audio at least Jul 30 19:02:54 styluseater where at? Jul 30 19:04:39 ok, so i can figure out how to package software, but i can't figure out how to put the battery in Jul 30 19:04:40 lol Jul 30 19:05:10 littlehat.homelinux.org:8000 Jul 30 19:05:35 http://littlehat.homelinux.org:8000/embedded/mosspultz.ogg Jul 30 19:05:36 Good evening. Jul 30 19:06:15 xzcvczx: number of? Jul 30 19:06:42 openmoko: 03zecke * r2574 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-feedreader2/ (6 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed) Jul 30 19:06:42 openmoko: 2007-07-30 Holger Hans Peter Freyther Jul 30 19:06:42 openmoko: Rename this application to feedreader2 to match the directory Jul 30 19:06:42 openmoko: name. Jul 30 19:06:42 openmoko: * autogen.sh: Jul 30 19:06:43 openmoko: * configure.ac: Jul 30 19:06:47 openmoko: * src/Makefile.am: Jul 30 19:07:12 thanks for the link StylusEater Jul 30 19:08:27 BryceLeo: no prob. Thank Sean for doing the interview. :-) Jul 30 19:08:52 StylusEater: will do Jul 30 19:10:07 StylusEater, you seem slashdotted Jul 30 19:10:30 perhaps putting it on a torrent would've been more efficient :] Jul 30 19:11:20 StylusEater, i can host it on my server Jul 30 19:11:24 the ogg that is Jul 30 19:11:37 ok, how do i install the damn battery Jul 30 19:11:37 lol Jul 30 19:11:55 * daMaestro really doesn't want to break anything that i just paid for and waited a month fo Jul 30 19:11:56 for* Jul 30 19:11:57 "put it in" :P Jul 30 19:12:13 speed is picking up a bit, maybe people gave up ;) Jul 30 19:12:31 ahh there it is Jul 30 19:12:54 come now, putting the battery isn't finicky, the microsd and sim holder on the other hand seems to require gentleness Jul 30 19:13:25 and small fingers Jul 30 19:13:27 i actually didn't see the little slot on the top to open it up! Jul 30 19:13:28 lol Jul 30 19:13:34 oh! Jul 30 19:13:46 use the guitar pick to open the battery case Jul 30 19:13:54 done and done Jul 30 19:17:04 daMaestro: i hate you.... i have to wait another 2 days Jul 30 19:17:24 :P Jul 30 19:17:52 * mokobot hands ScaredyCat Jason1's neo Jul 30 19:19:50 What is the trick about "Set console to USB" ? Jul 30 19:19:59 It doesn't works :( Jul 30 19:20:18 xzcvczx, i had to pay, though: http://wwwapps.ups.com/WebTracking/processInputRequest?Requester=UPSHome&loc=en_US&HTMLVersion=5.0&tracknum=1Z5VX0380251715251 Jul 30 19:20:32 xzcvczx, UPS could not find where Denver, CO is located Jul 30 19:20:57 (click on view package progress) Jul 30 19:21:07 UPS is like that Jul 30 19:21:13 what? Shit? Jul 30 19:22:14 * ScaredyCat thinks this purchase was extremely unecconomical for anyone not in the USA Jul 30 19:22:30 ok, so i'm going to assume the 512 micro san goes into the lower slot, then the sim on top of that, so where does the 2g SD go? Jul 30 19:22:31 lol Jul 30 19:22:49 ups is to be avoided at nearly all costs Jul 30 19:22:58 daMaestro, umm, nowhere? Jul 30 19:23:01 get out yer soldering iron, and I'm sure you can fit it somewhere,daMaestro! Jul 30 19:23:08 the phone only has one (micro)SD slot Jul 30 19:23:11 well, ship ups only if fedex is >50% more Jul 30 19:23:38 it would have been cheaper for me to actually fly to ca and pick it up Jul 30 19:23:40 if you need more space, you need to upgrade to a (for example) 2G microSD Jul 30 19:24:40 (still waiting on the official word on if larger microSDHDs will work, but the word is probably lagging because the cards themselves are too...) Jul 30 19:25:08 what is hte max so far then 4g? Jul 30 19:25:29 no, actually 2g is the max for standard microSD Jul 30 19:25:40 shame... Jul 30 19:25:42 Is anyone here able to access svn+ssh on projects.openmoko.org? When I try it I get a 'permission denied (publickey)' and no option to type in a password Jul 30 19:26:01 _if_ microSDHDs are able to work with the hardware, that'd be 32G (which is ridiculous for the next limit) Jul 30 19:26:02 :o Jul 30 19:26:02 key fnackd? Jul 30 19:26:31 mjr: that'd be nice, it'd make for a good media player too :) Jul 30 19:27:10 daMaestro: *fingers crossed* I don't get hit too hard. Jul 30 19:27:37 http://www.bmcdigital.co.uk/catalog/browse/microsd/4gb-sandisk-micro-sdhc-memory-card-with-free-reader?gclid=CMKxhKWB0I0CFR4VEAodPStjgw Jul 30 19:27:45 well, as said 4G microSDHDs are still not properly out, so no 32 any time soon Jul 30 19:27:47 cheap to test it :) Jul 30 19:28:07 anyway, I do intend to use it as a mediaplayer myself, just have to cycle the content a bit more Jul 30 19:28:25 oh yeah, it was SDHC, not HD Jul 30 19:30:50 in stock too Jul 30 19:31:31 ScaredyCat, so they seem to say. Well, it'd be about time. Jul 30 19:31:44 :) Jul 30 19:32:09 so, what the hell is the microsd transflash adapter for? Jul 30 19:32:18 * daMaestro actually thought it was another SD Jul 30 19:32:19 lol Jul 30 19:32:21 even if the hardware is capable, it might require a kernel update btw Jul 30 19:32:24 you get a free usb converter too... so maybe, even if it didn't work ing the body,you could use the usb host Jul 30 19:32:43 daMaestro, micro/minisd cards usually include full SD adapters Jul 30 19:33:03 just so you can stick them into your standard SD reader Jul 30 19:33:04 ok, and up to a 2GB micro flash is supported? Jul 30 19:33:16 sdhc is just a different formatting system that can address more than 2gb so it should be possible Jul 30 19:33:36 daMaestro, that much is certain, yes Jul 30 19:33:37 i just don't want to go buy one and not have it work Jul 30 19:33:39 ok cool Jul 30 19:33:46 i'll most likely buy one today Jul 30 19:34:03 * ScaredyCat pats daMaestro Jul 30 19:34:17 hey, i'm more a software hacker... leave me alone Jul 30 19:34:17 i still cant believe that they used ups exclusivfely Jul 30 19:34:18 lol Jul 30 19:34:53 I can't believe the import duty/taxes... Jul 30 19:34:57 BryceLeo, that's what we hope :] Jul 30 19:35:02 actually, sdhc cards should work as well. The difference is just that they use fat32 instead of fat formatting Jul 30 19:35:06 ScaredyCat: hopefully i wont have them Jul 30 19:35:21 s/faf/fat16 Jul 30 19:35:31 faf was right ;) Jul 30 19:35:49 * mjr will probably make do with the 512M cards for a while yet Jul 30 19:35:51 * BryceLeo sighs Jul 30 19:36:06 at least a 2G one will be on my shopping list when this baby matures a bit Jul 30 19:36:36 xzcvczx: sometimes stuff gets through without charges, it's just the luck of the draw Jul 30 19:36:40 haha first thing on my list is to actually get a gta01 Jul 30 19:37:03 oh and by the way Jul 30 19:37:10 fuck anyone who says the Neo don't look cool Jul 30 19:37:15 * ScaredyCat might buy a biss ass one, if it doesn;t work in the neo it'll go in the camera Jul 30 19:37:41 mjr: is looks REALLY tiny though - from the pics Jul 30 19:37:43 *nod* I have a SDHC supporting camera too... But it already has a fast 2G card Jul 30 19:38:05 does anyone know of transcription software? ogg to text? Jul 30 19:38:07 Yay, my Neo is shipping in a day or so, guess they either got the second shipment way earlier, or I was part of the first shipment. Jul 30 19:38:12 Why "Set console to USB" doesn't work in my NEO? It hides in 2 seconds... Jul 30 19:38:17 1G microsd costs 30 euros Jul 30 19:38:19 not my camera, SWMBO's - got it for her birthday... takes CF and sd :) Jul 30 19:38:22 mjr what cam? Jul 30 19:38:24 ScaredyCat: well i dont know what the deal is with import duty into nz Jul 30 19:38:24 ok.. even watching the device Kernel panic is hot Jul 30 19:38:27 !! Jul 30 19:39:00 Mandarino: press the aux button every so often Jul 30 19:39:00 BryceLeo, Panasonic DMC-LZ7, a small pocket cam, but high end as those go Jul 30 19:39:27 If I press aux i come back to the Boot Menu :? Jul 30 19:39:29 mjr yeah i know those cams. I'm a wedding photographer. Jul 30 19:39:54 me and the wife also "have" a proper Nikon camera, also using SD, but I don't recall what that is since it's usually at the wife's more artistic sister's ;) Jul 30 19:39:54 i usually use slrs, but my "take anywhere" cam is the fz-30 Jul 30 19:40:14 "SWMBO"? Jul 30 19:40:20 mjr: good choice on the nikon! I've got a d50 and a d200 Jul 30 19:40:26 yeah, this one is purposefully a "take anywhere" Jul 30 19:40:42 mjr: yeah alwasy a good point Jul 30 19:40:55 daxxar: She Who Must Be Obeyed Jul 30 19:41:22 Ah, a nice name for 'The Dragon' / 'My Better Half', I take it. ;-P Jul 30 19:41:31 :) Jul 30 19:41:35 D80, was the Nikon Jul 30 19:42:01 mjr: very nice cam! Jul 30 19:42:10 SWMBO has a D70S (?) Jul 30 19:42:51 daxxar: d70s is a great cam too, i wish i had that as my backup instead of the d50 (so i didn't have to have dual cards (cf/sd)) Jul 30 19:43:41 I think I might actually end up with the camera... and she'll get a snap snap camera :P Jul 30 19:43:51 I'm not much of a photographer, but she seems to take great pleasure in it, some of the pictures are quite nice. Jul 30 19:43:52 Opening USB Device 0x0000:0x0000... Jul 30 19:43:52 Claiming USB DFU Runtime Interface... Jul 30 19:43:52 Determining device status: state = dfuERROR, status = 14 Jul 30 19:43:52 dfuERROR, clearing status Jul 30 19:43:52 error clear_status: error sending control message: Connection timed out Jul 30 19:43:57 ok, that sure seems fun Jul 30 19:43:58 stealth presents for me :D Jul 30 19:44:07 Come in #1841 your time is up Jul 30 19:44:12 are they going to give me a phone? :( Jul 30 19:44:31 daxxar: the main thing is to enjoy it Jul 30 19:44:52 Yep, that she does :-) Jul 30 19:45:04 phnaar phnaar Jul 30 19:45:24 Jul 30 19:45:36 so, when i try setting the console to usb, it seems like it wants to (it says press aux to return to the boot menu) and then that scrolls away and i end up back at the boot menu with the above error from dfu-util Jul 30 19:46:44 /window new Jul 30 19:46:49 /sigh Jul 30 19:46:52 alrihgty guys i gotta head out Jul 30 19:46:56 bye all Jul 30 19:47:02 /cya Jul 30 19:47:19 ohh and i'll hopefully have the crash course up wtih a GTK example tonight or tomorro Jul 30 19:47:22 c ya Jul 30 19:47:57 ok, i got it to go Jul 30 19:48:09 i guess it is supposed to go right back to the boot loader Jul 30 19:48:22 so, yeah.. someone needs to take pictures of all this Jul 30 19:48:25 if i need to i can Jul 30 19:48:34 please Jul 30 19:48:42 mjr's are crap ;) Jul 30 19:48:57 he didn't want to do more Jul 30 19:48:59 damaestro: I had the same problem. I got fixed by following the instructions carefully and leave a bit of time between booting up/hooking it up to the laptop/starting to flash Jul 30 19:49:00 :( Jul 30 19:49:32 mave_pan, i actually just incorrectly thought that it was supposed to stay at the " press aux to return to the boot menu" Jul 30 19:49:52 hmm, I suppose I could take a few better pictures now Jul 30 19:50:06 mjr, that would be awesome.. i can't take pictures until tonight Jul 30 19:50:17 i am actually working on other things for $work while dealing with my neo Jul 30 19:50:17 just wasn't up to it this morning Jul 30 19:50:37 :) too excited Jul 30 19:50:58 My exact problem also. Jul 30 19:51:27 well.. i'd say the dfu-util package is working Jul 30 19:51:33 it is flashing the rootfs image now Jul 30 19:51:44 stupid usb 1.1 Jul 30 19:51:51 It's not that. Jul 30 19:52:00 It's slower as it doesn't use bulk transfers. Jul 30 19:52:14 It would be done in around a minute if it did. Jul 30 19:52:37 yeah I noted too that it's slower than usb 1.1 warrants Jul 30 19:54:04 Huh, DFU doesn't use bulk transfer? Jul 30 19:54:10 No - AIUI. Jul 30 19:54:25 would usb2.0 help ?-) Jul 30 19:54:26 * SpeedEvil has not looked at the standard. Jul 30 19:54:35 GTA04 Jul 30 19:55:12 OWM02 ;o) Jul 30 19:58:29 damaestro: after I flashed my kernel, my laptop froze and I had to reboot my linux box. Just thought you might want to know :-) Jul 30 19:58:55 Same goes for flashing the rootfs ... Jul 30 20:00:14 it would be nice to be able to put stuff on the sdcard and boot it, and flash from SD Jul 30 20:00:18 mave_pan, not here Jul 30 20:00:21 mave_pan, what distro? Jul 30 20:01:11 Red Hat Enterprise Linux WS release 4 (Nahant Update 4) Jul 30 20:01:25 ahh... you wanna try my package? Jul 30 20:01:29 especially customized for IBM employees :-) Jul 30 20:01:30 i don't have a el4 target setup here Jul 30 20:01:31 oooeer Jul 30 20:01:50 hold on... let me see if i can fire off a epel build Jul 30 20:03:27 mave_pan, do you have a build env? Jul 30 20:03:44 mave_pan, something that you can run rpmbuild or mock under? (for el4) ... i've managed to not keep my el4 repo around Jul 30 20:03:48 * daMaestro double checks on that Jul 30 20:04:01 yeah, i only have 5 Jul 30 20:04:15 Last message I saw in terminal window after flashing was : 'Resetting USB to switch back to runtime mode'. Jul 30 20:04:28 i assume you used the prebuilt binary? Jul 30 20:04:35 And then the caps lock light was blinking and keys got stuck Jul 30 20:05:43 Never used rpmbuild, but it seems to be available on my box Jul 30 20:09:50 mave_pan, http://repo.damaestro.us/fedora/personal/7/i386/dfu-util-2573.svn-1.fc7.src.rpm Jul 30 20:10:01 mave_pan, then just: rpmbuild --rebuild dfu-util-2573.svn-1.fc7.src.rpm Jul 30 20:10:07 that should give you an el4 rpm Jul 30 20:10:14 what fix is in there? Jul 30 20:10:41 well.. it is the latest checkout from svn; and will also be built against your local libs Jul 30 20:10:58 most likely there is just something not playing nice with the binary only build Jul 30 20:11:03 I'll give it a try Jul 30 20:11:12 this will build from source for you... Jul 30 20:11:49 i'm just curious if this *doesn't* crash for you Jul 30 20:11:56 if not, i'll make sure to get it into epel4 Jul 30 20:14:07 I'll try it tomorrow. Jul 30 20:14:28 cool Jul 30 20:14:57 it's beautiful Jul 30 20:15:18 Mandarino: /me is here. Jul 30 20:15:28 :P Jul 30 20:15:53 I've flashed the neo :P Jul 30 20:16:04 I was waiting for your help ... Jul 30 20:16:11 Good. Jul 30 20:21:23 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[OpenMoko_Local_Groups:_Paderborn]] [[OpenMoko_Local_Groups:_OWL]] [[Devirginator/it]] [[SH1_FAQ]] [[USB_Networking]] [[User_talk:DaMaestro]] [[Shipping_Notes]] [[GSM]] [[Application_Development_Crash_Course]] [[Category:Platform]] and other changes Jul 30 20:21:52 hmh, no good photos from me, no nice location/lighting here. But I did get some more crappy ones. Jul 30 20:22:10 they'll do :) Jul 30 20:23:29 photos? Jul 30 20:23:41 yeah Jul 30 20:23:48 may I have a link? Jul 30 20:24:25 hi everyone, do i really have to push the aux button every 30 seconds while flashing the rootfs? Jul 30 20:24:29 http://mjr.iki.fi/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=1772&g2_navId=x3ff9aa2c Jul 30 20:24:54 takes a long time and i do not want to risk a powerdown though Jul 30 20:25:11 is that a boot screen? :-) Jul 30 20:25:11 yeah the new pics are uploading there as we speak Jul 30 20:26:00 mjr: so you got your unit also today? :) Jul 30 20:26:04 yes :) Jul 30 20:26:08 awesome. Jul 30 20:26:30 StylusEater, and it's the uboot menu, with firmware uploading Jul 30 20:27:05 yum. Jul 30 20:27:18 I can't get a device quite yet. Can't wait until I can. Jul 30 20:27:49 yay its booting, finally Jul 30 20:28:05 that is without kernel panix Jul 30 20:28:09 panic Jul 30 20:31:40 all of the new crappy pictures now up at the previously mentioned gallery Jul 30 20:32:06 good stuff mjr : Jul 30 20:32:09 ):) Jul 30 20:34:23 that stylus looks like an icbm compared to the neo Jul 30 20:34:35 heh Jul 30 20:36:20 StylusEater, i am going to do a photo howto tonight Jul 30 20:36:27 StylusEater, for putting the damn thing together Jul 30 20:36:28 lol Jul 30 20:39:56 daMaestro: Have you tried your neo with a 3g sim card yet? Jul 30 20:40:41 calamous1_, no Jul 30 20:40:45 calamous1_, i don't even have a sim yet Jul 30 20:40:54 daMaestro: what about in your current cell phone? Jul 30 20:41:07 i was actually going to head our for a latte, and i think the closest place is att Jul 30 20:41:14 so i might just ask to borrow one ;-) Jul 30 20:41:15 lol Jul 30 20:41:21 calamous1_, cdma (currently with verizon) Jul 30 20:41:38 daMaestro: Be warned that the at&t one prob wont work Jul 30 20:41:44 Look at the front of the sim Jul 30 20:41:52 If it says 4021 its the same as all of us Jul 30 20:42:04 anybody remember what the fix for openmoko build failing on rss was? I remember seeing it, but can't seem to find it now Jul 30 20:42:06 and usless your neo has the power of christ you wont be able to use it Jul 30 20:42:23 * daMaestro checks logs Jul 30 20:42:23 well, atleast until fic fixes this problem Jul 30 20:42:41 Jul 29 20:14:47 mellon do a bitbake -cclean openmoko-rssreader and update sdn Jul 30 20:42:44 I send Harald an email telling him about the problem Jul 30 20:42:58 I think its the most serious problem they have. If they want to sell a phone it must work with sim cards Jul 30 20:42:58 moko-bunny, ^^ Jul 30 20:43:15 But it makes a great small computer though Jul 30 20:43:57 Forget about car PCs and miniPCs, get the neo1973 computer Jul 30 20:44:15 Featuring a nice touch display and a bunch o' hardware Jul 30 20:44:19 yes, a neo1973 could make a nice carputor Jul 30 20:44:28 Display is too small. Jul 30 20:44:33 A 4" display would be nice. Jul 30 20:44:47 you just need a lense attachment ;P Jul 30 20:44:49 SpeedEvil: Are there USB montors? Jul 30 20:44:52 Alternatively, a 2.5" or so round display, with the Neo in a can. Jul 30 20:44:58 calamous1_: no - for usb1.1 Jul 30 20:45:00 because I remember when I wan compliing my kernel once I though I saw the option Jul 30 20:45:09 wow, i am shocked and dismayed that the gps closed source daemon is unavailable Jul 30 20:45:20 speedevil, do you have your neo yet? Jul 30 20:45:25 No. Jul 30 20:45:31 yeah, i'm kinda not too happy about that too galexande Jul 30 20:45:31 yay! i'm not the only one Jul 30 20:45:31 When is you'rs comming Jul 30 20:45:36 * SpeedEvil clicks reload. Jul 30 20:45:57 * calamous1_ things that once SpeedEvil gets his neo that hes going to make the best GPS ever Jul 30 20:46:17 It's been sitting in Philadelphia for some time. Since 5:17AM Jul 30 20:46:31 That was a good movie Jul 30 20:46:48 I think Tom Hanks is a great actor Jul 30 20:46:52 daMaestro: the photo howto will be slick Jul 30 20:57:47 Is it October yet? Jul 30 20:58:18 gpsd is closed source? i thought the kernel driver to the gps hardware was the closed source part. Jul 30 21:00:09 don-o: It doesnt matter much wether you ask a closed source kernel module or a closed source daemon Jul 30 21:00:10 don-o, no it's not Jul 30 21:00:30 lemme search my history Jul 30 21:01:05 not there Jul 30 21:02:30 Anyway, the "gllin" GPS (_not_ GSM) driver is the only proprietary bit in OpenMoko, and therefore the only proprietary bit running on Neo's application processor. The _Neo_ has some more proprietary bits, as firmware blobs on things such as the gsm chipset, bt chip, and come GTA02, wifi chip Jul 30 21:03:25 clear? Jul 30 21:03:40 * ScaredyCat readys the paddles Jul 30 21:04:26 (actually the gllin binary is not public yet, so the entire OpenMoko is _currently_ free, but we are supposed to get the driver eventually) Jul 30 21:04:53 never mind that it leaked way back when Jul 30 21:14:55 hmf. chronological "things that UPS does with your order" are not logical to me. Jul 30 21:17:28 Kero: did you see what it cost me in taxes ? Jul 30 21:17:57 ScaredyCat: do tell Jul 30 21:18:26 mjr: "we are supposed to get the driver eventually" gpl driver? or a closed-source driver? Jul 30 21:18:31 no, I've been deprived of about 24 hours of IRC Jul 30 21:18:35 87.90 EUR Jul 30 21:19:53 the silence is deafening :) Jul 30 21:20:15 reading up on regular mail. openMoko is next :) Jul 30 21:20:15 TimRiker, FIC/OpenMoko inc. will provide Global Locate's proprietary binary driver. This is what I meant, and it's the only proprietary bit of OpenMoko I mentioned. Reverse-engineering the chip protocol is underway with the purpose of creating a free driver, also. Jul 30 21:21:00 I think Elrond was doing RE at least Jul 30 21:21:30 what does Global Locate think of that? are they aware? Jul 30 21:22:00 does FIC make other phones? Jul 30 21:22:01 No idea. Of course, FIC/OpenMoko inc. can't take part in that Jul 30 21:22:04 I did not tell them. I've only told some OpenMoko Inc. people. Jul 30 21:22:33 ScaredyCat: crikey Jul 30 21:22:37 mjr: ah. I thought you meant that FIC/OpenMoko was doing it. Jul 30 21:22:47 glad I'll be in Los Angeles when the GTA02 comes out... Jul 30 21:22:47 Elrond: nod Jul 30 21:23:08 ewon: ya :( Jul 30 21:23:45 TimRiker: hey hey Jul 30 21:23:51 is there a projected date for gta02 sale? Jul 30 21:23:54 TimRiker: hows goes it? long time no see Jul 30 21:23:56 TimRiker - OpenMoko Inc. is too close. They better not do it. Some of the people working there signed Global Locate's NDAs. Jul 30 21:24:03 I understand that's a finger in the air prospect Jul 30 21:24:29 * SpeedEvil ponders. Jul 30 21:24:31 noiddd, October has been mentioned. We shall see. Jul 30 21:24:58 I highly doubt october. Jul 30 21:24:59 * SpeedEvil wonders what GL would say to a request for info saying - we've done half of it, can you halp? Jul 30 21:24:59 gta02 is the 2440 based model? Jul 30 21:25:07 SpeedEvil, hm :) Jul 30 21:25:14 ScaredyCat: yours was one advanced set? Jul 30 21:25:28 heh, gta02 delays are fine with me - more time for you gta01 buyers to get the applications right for when i can buy a 02 ;) Jul 30 21:25:31 Hallelujah! Jul 30 21:25:37 ya LarstiQ Jul 30 21:25:38 SpeedEvil - A friend already considered trying some scoial phone engineering. ;-) Jul 30 21:27:44 ScaredyCat: great Jul 30 21:28:09 ScaredyCat: how did that get charged? Jul 30 21:28:16 mickeyl: wb Jul 30 21:28:24 cash on delivery... Jul 30 21:28:29 tomorrow :/ Jul 30 21:28:46 they left a card after changing the delivery date Jul 30 21:29:06 heya Jul 30 21:29:09 Hi mickeyl back. Jul 30 21:29:17 nbd: ping Jul 30 21:29:32 it's a bit high methinls though Jul 30 21:30:17 ScaredyCat: ugh Jul 30 21:30:17 120.37 USD Jul 30 21:30:26 prpplague: pong Jul 30 21:30:40 ScaredyCat: I'd better inform my delivery address then Jul 30 21:31:22 nbd: i have confirmed on both the 2410 and 2440 devices i have that i do not receive irq trigger from the card via the sdi controller Jul 30 21:31:50 prpplague: and you patched the controller driver to enable sdio irqs? Jul 30 21:31:59 nbd: can you or someone on the fic/neo group test and see if you guys are having the same problem with your hardware? Jul 30 21:32:02 (there's a separate flag for that, iirc) Jul 30 21:32:46 nbd: i just did a small stand alone module that enabled the sdi controller and the irqs, then triggered the irq manually with a pushbutton Jul 30 21:33:14 nbd: can you point me to the patch you are refering to? Jul 30 21:33:15 prpplague: and you enabled the flag for the sdio specific interrupts? Jul 30 21:33:19 there is no patch Jul 30 21:33:24 nbd: yea Jul 30 21:33:26 i just remember from the datasheet that there was such a flag Jul 30 21:33:32 nbd: yea Jul 30 21:33:37 separate from the standard interrupt stuff Jul 30 21:34:08 nbd: i enabled the flag in the SDICON and also unmasked the irq in the SDIIMSK Jul 30 21:34:29 ok Jul 30 21:35:56 nbd: the SDIDSTA register does show that an SDIO interrupt was detected, but irq is never triggered Jul 30 21:37:00 * nbd takes a look at the datasheet Jul 30 21:37:17 nbd: section 19 of the 2410 datasheet Jul 30 21:40:01 re Jul 30 21:40:14 prpplague: have you ever received a single interrupt from the controller in any mode? Jul 30 21:41:03 nbd: yea, i've tested all the other interrupts and they work Jul 30 21:41:15 nbd: its seems limited to the sdio interrupt Jul 30 21:41:28 nbd: from the card Jul 30 21:41:50 hm Jul 30 21:43:26 prpplague: did you clear the sdio interrupt detected flag from SDIDSTA? Jul 30 21:43:47 nbd: yep Jul 30 21:44:09 hm Jul 30 21:44:12 no idea Jul 30 21:44:19 nbd: me either Jul 30 21:44:46 nbd: i'm using an external interrupt right now connected to sdio data1 Jul 30 21:44:53 nbd: that works great Jul 30 21:45:24 nbd: only issue is right before a 4-bit data xfer, i have to disable that irq and reenable after the xfer is complete Jul 30 21:46:08 SpeedEvil - BTW: Did you get any strange idea on the max at doppler==0? Jul 30 21:46:14 No. Jul 30 21:46:33 I want to see what happens when it goes through 0 'naturally'. Jul 30 21:46:59 * SpeedEvil has dcc autoget on, for anyone wanting to send me stuff. Jul 30 21:47:34 Ahh, that's why you asked me for the decoded thing from longtrace, because that one PRN goes through 0? Jul 30 21:47:42 yes. Jul 30 21:47:48 Amongst ohters. Jul 30 21:48:30 Also, I want to see if I can get a better result on the doppler. Jul 30 21:48:35 Well, the current output is quite untagged. You have to look at various bits to get the idea, what numbers are what. Jul 30 21:48:40 yeah. Jul 30 21:49:02 Hmm, we're quite sure, that it's doppler, right? Jul 30 21:49:03 Do you have a list of scribblings as to what may be what? Jul 30 21:49:10 Well. Jul 30 21:49:16 The graph is pretty compelling. Jul 30 21:49:34 Okay, I'll tag that part "Doppler:" Then. Jul 30 21:49:35 The only thing I did to make them line up was to change one constant. Jul 30 21:50:10 And that matches about 8 independant variables in the 3 traces plotted to within about 2% Jul 30 21:50:22 The chances of that being an accident aren't high. Jul 30 21:50:31 Right. Jul 30 21:50:48 SpeedEvil: What are your degree(s) in? Jul 30 21:51:00 * SpeedEvil dropped out due to health reasons. Jul 30 21:51:12 * SpeedEvil was going for math/CS Jul 30 21:51:19 with later one in EE Jul 30 21:51:45 Currently unemployed and have somewhat variable health, making 9-5 problematic. Jul 30 21:52:35 Ah, finally found a bugzilla bug I might help you guys with (199) some friends of mine are in the music business and they might just create some wicked ringtones in various themes Jul 30 21:53:23 Roy: Phase 2 - october will be mono. (in case you were thinking of stereo) Jul 30 21:54:08 * ewon has a major in CS, with a minor in binge drinking. Jul 30 21:54:29 All sounds or just the ringtones? Jul 30 21:54:29 Roy: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (and also SH1_FAQ, Neo1973, Developer_preview and Neo1973_Hardware#GTA01Bv4 pages) (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) Jul 30 21:54:58 Roy: One speaker only. Jul 30 21:55:28 One was deleted to make space for wifi Jul 30 21:55:41 Ah, then its kind of obvious :) Jul 30 21:56:23 nopcode: read the datasheet in question Jul 30 21:56:24 oops Jul 30 21:56:33 I'll send them a email and challenge them to a ringtone-competition, that might just get us some wicked ringtones Jul 30 21:56:44 what the hell, how will I live with mono? Jul 30 21:56:55 Where's my kayak?!? Jul 30 22:03:03 SpeedEvil - It was a stupid day and I need to get up early tomorrow. I've started to tag some items in the output, but I'll try to tag more and upload a full dump for you tomorrow. Jul 30 22:03:35 SpeedEvil - If you only care for doppler, I can extract the Doppler part for you only. Jul 30 22:03:48 Does the Debug Board v2 route all signals comming from the neo-flex adapter to a connector? - aspecially SPI, GPS, Modem and I^2C would be cool... Jul 30 22:08:47 Good night people. Jul 30 22:09:48 g'night Elrond Jul 30 22:13:30 SpeedEvil - Hmm, I start to consider the possibility, that this doppler==0 maximum is a problem of MY hammerhead. Looking at cold2, I see _lots_ lower values for doppler==0. This also might explain the not-so-good-performance of by hammerhead... Jul 30 22:15:21 mickeyl - The gps performance issues, I told you on Saturday, _might_ be related to my HH (working hypothesis). I really need to come up with some testing apps, that other people can run on their HHs to give me more data. Jul 30 22:15:55 Elrond: yes, that would be handy Jul 30 22:16:41 hmmmm.. cant seem to get microsd card and gsm card to work both at the same time Jul 30 22:16:42 Of course it would be interesting, why my HH is so different. Jul 30 22:17:35 are the bord schematics for the debugboard online somewhere? Jul 30 22:17:37 The only thing, that I know, that went really wrong, was this one bug in the kernel, where the DC-DC-converter was setup wrong. So the HH got too less voltage. Jul 30 22:21:23 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Getting_Started_with_your_Neo1973]] [[OpenMoko_Local_Groups:_Frankfurt_Main]] [[P1_Owners]] [[OpenMoko_Local_Groups:_OWL]] Jul 30 22:22:36 Anyqay: Now good night for real. Jul 30 22:22:45 n8 Jul 30 22:22:58 Night mickeyl :) Jul 30 22:23:01 * mickeyl runs double shift today Jul 30 22:23:11 can't go to sleep until in a couple of hours :) Jul 30 22:23:37 sleep is overrated anyways Jul 30 22:23:51 true that Jul 30 22:24:23 hey mickey: any issues with gsm card and microsd working at the same time? Jul 30 22:25:03 ljp: nothing known. Jul 30 22:25:21 might be a mechanical thing. check that both cards are firmly seated Jul 30 22:28:05 I have them working at the same time Jul 30 22:28:40 Elrond: :) Jul 30 22:29:05 Elrond: doppler only would work ATM Jul 30 22:33:24 mjr: im glad to hear gpsd is open source. Jul 30 22:33:35 It's not. Jul 30 22:33:39 so, i'll most likely be able to test both att and tmobile sims tonight Jul 30 22:33:42 don-o. Jul 30 22:33:44 * don-o sighs Jul 30 22:33:57 i know i'll be able to test tmobile, and expect to find that att is not working Jul 30 22:34:05 There are attempts to make an open-source driver. Jul 30 22:34:14 But, that's not at all the same thing. Jul 30 22:34:19 SpeedEvil: the daemon or the kernel driver? Jul 30 22:34:31 there is no kernel driver. Jul 30 22:34:34 It's a serial device Jul 30 22:34:40 well - there is the serial driver. Jul 30 22:34:54 lol Jul 30 22:35:03 SpeedEvil, it's not kmod-automagic? Jul 30 22:35:07 i thought i had that installed... ;-) Jul 30 22:35:16 I dunno how it's installed. Jul 30 22:37:36 SpeedEvil: so what is gllin Jul 30 22:37:49 It's the binary userspace driver software Jul 30 22:38:26 thats closed source as well as gpsd? Jul 30 22:38:53 gllin acts like a serial GPS on the outside. Jul 30 22:39:00 gpsd is open-source Jul 30 22:39:04 and connects to this. Jul 30 22:39:34 the gllin is basically a userspace driver that gpsd talks to. Jul 30 22:39:44 gllin generates NMEA output. Jul 30 22:39:54 SpeedEvil: okay so i was right initially i just had kernel driver swapped with userspace driver. Jul 30 22:40:38 SpeedEvil: i present lines 15&16 compared with line 28 as confusing. http://pastie.caboo.se/83598 Jul 30 22:40:42 gpsd is not a driver. It's a standard GPS sharing thing. Jul 30 22:40:52 And format conversion Jul 30 22:41:03 SpeedEvil: i understand that. gpsd is a good old userspace daemon. Jul 30 22:41:47 oh - I thought you were just using 'gpsd' in the 'gps driver' sense and wasn't bothering to correct you. Jul 30 22:42:20 * don-o nods Jul 30 22:47:39 Does gllin only output NMEA? Jul 30 22:48:02 probably Jul 30 22:48:20 oooh. with an open driver, we can make it output something sane! yay! Jul 30 22:49:31 If it only outputs NMEA then there's no way of getting per-satellite error data correct? Jul 30 22:50:27 kristian-m the debugboard schematics are not public yet. we are working on that. Jul 30 22:50:43 kristian-m but if you want to know how it works.. take a look here http://www.joernonline.de/dw/doku.php?id=projects:oocdlink:2_oocdlinks Jul 30 22:51:30 thats >90% the same as what we are using. just added a usbhub and some minor changes, but the jtag-part is software 1:1 compatible. only different usb-ids Jul 30 22:52:54 roh, i'm not sure if anyone tells you guys this enough... but good work Jul 30 22:52:56 roh thanks - i think i'll have a look at the rest when the board is here... Jul 30 22:53:03 roh, i finally got my device ;-) Jul 30 22:53:20 hads: no, there isn't. Jul 30 22:53:40 hads: see all pages in Category:GPS on the wiki Jul 30 22:54:11 SpeedEvil: Cheers. I've read most of them I think, there is an amount of conflicting info there. Jul 30 22:54:29 roh: Do you know what LEDs are present behind the buttons on P1? I assume that they are hung off a GPIO? Jul 30 22:54:33 so, why is the portmap daemon running? Jul 30 22:54:33 P2 Jul 30 22:54:55 hads: it's been written piecemeal. Any specific points? Jul 30 22:55:02 daMaestro: (wild guess) NFS? Jul 30 22:55:12 hads: and with evolving understanding on the later pages. Jul 30 22:55:17 openmoko: 03mickey * r2575 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/panel-plugins/openmoko-panel-gsm/ (ChangeLog src/openmoko-panel-gsm.c): openmoko-panel-gsm: catch up with libmokogsmd2 Jul 30 22:55:22 * cesarb at least hopes it isn't NIS/YP :D Jul 30 22:55:23 cesarb, yes.. i know what portmap is used for Jul 30 22:55:36 i just wondered if there was something moko specific that was using it Jul 30 22:55:40 SpeedEvil: Understandable. Nothing specific at the moment, it's been a few days since I read it. Jul 30 22:55:44 daMaestro: no, I'm saying it's running perhaps so you can mount your home dir in the neo ;-) Jul 30 22:55:46 i'll just figure out how to ssh in and find out for myself ;-) Jul 30 22:56:00 cesarb, i'm going to turn off nfs is that is the case Jul 30 22:56:00 lol Jul 30 22:56:09 daMaestro: probably the real reason is that openembedded's default distro installs portmap by default, and it just wasn't removed Jul 30 22:56:23 daMaestro: and it probably automatically loads when present Jul 30 22:56:51 SpeedEvil: Questions 15 and 15.1 on Hardware:AGPS imply that you can get error data from the Neo Jul 30 22:57:04 great, so installing an OM snapshot in germany makes you a criminal Jul 30 22:57:26 hads: that's I think after reverse engineering. Jul 30 22:57:40 You can't from gllin. Jul 30 22:57:51 SpeedEvil: Ah Jul 30 22:58:11 That page is a mess - the Q+A format is silly IMO. Jul 30 22:58:16 Agreed Jul 30 22:59:28 Does anyone know if there is a way of telling what the volume is set to on the dialer application? I seem to be able to make calls, but I hear nothing. I know the wheely gizmo adjusts the volume, but I don't know whether to turn in CW or CCW, and I don't know how to tell what the volume is currently set to. Jul 30 22:59:35 hmm. i can't follow you. what about portmap? is that evil nowadays? Jul 30 23:01:57 it is a "hackertool" which has recently been outlawed and may not be used, installed or developed by anyone. Doing so makes you a criminal thanks to our fascist government. Jul 30 23:01:59 rtm_: are you certain it is using the correct output device? Jul 30 23:02:14 CoreDump|afk: I'm glad I'm not in .de for that Jul 30 23:02:17 CoreDump|afk: really? boy, that's insane Jul 30 23:02:30 yeah Jul 30 23:02:37 sigh Jul 30 23:02:52 is portmap solely for NFS or are other network services using this as well? Jul 30 23:02:53 I'm not certain of anything. I've tried pressing speakerphone and not pressing speakerphone, but I never hear anything in either case. Jul 30 23:02:54 this government needs to go Jul 30 23:02:57 CoreDump|afk, what exactly makes it criminal there? Jul 30 23:03:06 mickeyl: others do use it Jul 30 23:03:15 portmap supports all RPC services. Jul 30 23:03:17 rtm_: you need to setup the mixer properly. I'm unsure the dialer does that properly. Jul 30 23:03:36 portmap does a ton of stuff. that's why I hate it :-) Jul 30 23:03:45 Wow - is there a WIki page on setting up the mixer? Jul 30 23:03:46 beeing a "hackertool". As "they" do not define what that exactly is, basically any networking app counts. Jul 30 23:04:09 in which country are "hacker tools" banned now? Jul 30 23:04:22 germany Jul 30 23:04:23 and cars make you a war criminal because once upon a time engine exhaust was used to exterminate people? Jul 30 23:04:24 * SpeedEvil stabs politicians that legislate without listening to consultation. Jul 30 23:04:25 oh, just a generic "we'll put you in jail if we don't like you" law Jul 30 23:04:33 Man, that sucks Jul 30 23:04:35 morning, afternoon and g'day moko nuts Jul 30 23:04:36 mjr: exactly Jul 30 23:04:58 ckuethe: it's actually _really_ hard to gas yourself with a modern car. Jul 30 23:05:07 i'm sure it is Jul 30 23:05:19 i was pointing out an equally silly proposition Jul 30 23:05:22 The oxygen sensors and catalytic converter keep the CO content of the exhaust _low_ Jul 30 23:05:46 once upon a time $X was used to do something bad, therefore all $X is bad and so is everyone who wants to use it. Jul 30 23:05:46 German's have now have a situation were security IT specialists have to break the law to do their job, what a bunch of nobs Jul 30 23:05:59 s/have// Jul 30 23:06:00 linux_galore meant: German's now have a situation were security IT specialists have to break the law to do their job, what a bunch of nobs Jul 30 23:06:40 ckuethe: our politicians are either criminally ignorant or have a frightening in mind (think police.state worse then the UK nowadays) Jul 30 23:06:55 we have something like that for our roads ... "stunting" Jul 30 23:07:05 = anything a police officer doesn't like Jul 30 23:07:06 s/frightening/frightening agenda Jul 30 23:07:14 no real way to defend against it Jul 30 23:07:29 * don-o hands out nuclear bunker plans Jul 30 23:07:51 penalties incl. fines, jail time, confiscation of car, and nasty demerits (affects your insurance rates) Jul 30 23:08:13 if the generation who fought in WWI/II saw how we had squandered their fight for freedom they would wonder what the hell they had all died for Jul 30 23:08:49 indeed. I am surprised that we haven't seen riots and uprisings yet. Jul 30 23:09:06 linux_galore: it's ok they were brainwashed too Jul 30 23:09:12 np: Kaiserchiefs - I predict a riot. Jul 30 23:09:12 it's almost as though modern democracies are all imploding into some weird socialist control freak state Jul 30 23:09:32 linux_galore: post-great-depression = US is a dictatorship for all intents and purposes, and had been sliding toward it since about 20 years before the civil war Jul 30 23:10:42 yeah, as long as the serfs have their idiot box's and food on the table they wont do a thing Jul 30 23:10:57 hence the transition in europe from the serf state to a welfare state Jul 30 23:11:03 meanwhile they are getting poorer by the year Jul 30 23:11:25 unknown_lamer: true Jul 30 23:12:13 well, at least Germany is moving _away_ from beeing a welfare state to a police state Jul 30 23:12:30 time to emigrate Jul 30 23:12:32 'tis only a minor transition Jul 30 23:12:38 mickeyl: exactly Jul 30 23:12:39 mickeyl: nowhere to emigrate to Jul 30 23:12:49 unknown_lamer: indeed :\ Jul 30 23:12:59 the eu ensured that all of europe went to hell Jul 30 23:13:04 america is not safe Jul 30 23:13:07 canada is a joke Jul 30 23:13:11 unknown_lamer: I listened to a podcast recently about China and its economy (it was a lecture), what stunned me is the comment were over 70% of the Chinese are now worse of under the new socialist capitalist system then they were under chairman mao Jul 30 23:13:13 russia is totalitarian again Jul 30 23:13:17 and the rest of world is killing itself Jul 30 23:13:31 * mickeyl considers Taiwan Jul 30 23:13:42 asia might indeed the way to go Jul 30 23:13:42 linux_galore: and 70% were probably worse off under Mao than under their Feudal lords Jul 30 23:13:54 they traded the farm for the factory Jul 30 23:13:55 mickeyl hrhr..they are at least only massively buerocratic.. but we know that already Jul 30 23:13:58 consider moving to the middle east? Things are pretty stable there these days :) Jul 30 23:14:03 roh: yah Jul 30 23:14:51 mickeyl but hey.. soon is summer-pause.. and that means nothing happens at all Jul 30 23:15:01 at least in politics Jul 30 23:15:09 maybe sweden or finland. At least they don't kick their citizens rights w/ their feet from what I hear Jul 30 23:15:21 roh: hopefully Jul 30 23:15:25 unknown_lamer: true, then they had the one child per family policy that basically made life for the poor farmers worse because they now dont have enough family labour to keep the famrs running Jul 30 23:15:39 farms* Jul 30 23:15:41 CoreDump|afk, well, we're a bit slow starters here Jul 30 23:15:56 =) Jul 30 23:16:49 north america and europe is going to hell :\ I ordered a "japanese for dummies" book already =) Jul 30 23:16:54 hahah Jul 30 23:17:12 Because japan is so accepting of non-conformity. Jul 30 23:17:40 if you think the problem in the west with the massive aging is bad (baby boomers) wait till China suddenly realises in 25 years that it has this huge population of old people and no labour to support them all thanks to the one child per person policy Jul 30 23:17:48 And racial minorities. Jul 30 23:18:26 they're betting on automated labour; not a bad bet, though not a given Jul 30 23:18:30 SpeedEvil: I was only half kidding ;) I have always been interested into the Japanese culture ( as it is so very different from our own) Jul 30 23:18:53 mjr: automated labour wont look after old people, not unless you want to spend a small fortune Jul 30 23:19:31 Or unless you teleoperate them from india. Jul 30 23:19:38 linux_galore, doesn't actually matter if that particular work is automated or not, if enough is Jul 30 23:19:43 I cant see Japan surviving with it negative growth numbers and lack of immigration for too long Jul 30 23:19:59 its* Jul 30 23:20:22 * SpeedEvil votes for compulsory impregnation of all schoolgirls. Jul 30 23:20:26 there are parts of Japan now were there are "no people under 50" think about that Jul 30 23:20:38 SpeedEvil, using tentacles Jul 30 23:20:42 heh Jul 30 23:21:13 naw , big robots with red and white paint jobs will do it Jul 30 23:21:22 * mwester curses XChat, for clearly switching IRC channels on him... Jul 30 23:21:40 They can just merge with Zimbawe - sone there will be nobody over 50 there. Jul 30 23:22:11 rtm_: everyone with half a brain is leaving Zimbabwe Jul 30 23:22:43 Inflation is up around 500% Jul 30 23:23:15 But Mugabe just ordered all prices to be cut by 1/2, so it'll be ok. Jul 30 23:23:38 =D Jul 30 23:23:51 the whole farming industry has collapsed (imagine that if you close all the farms and hand it to beggers it will all fall appart, who would have thunk that) Jul 30 23:24:43 rtm_: yeah and he had demanded the sky will rain every Tuesday Jul 30 23:25:30 hmm i'm getting connection refused when trying to ssh in Jul 30 23:26:14 rtm_: imagine it cant you, OK I want to buy wheat of you to feed my people and your going to sell it to me half price, French Farmer "WTF!!" Jul 30 23:26:45 daMaestro - did you ifconfig usb0 192.168.0.200 netmask 255.255.255.0 ? Jul 30 23:27:02 anyway back to work Jul 30 23:27:11 did you ssh root@192.168.0.202 ? Jul 30 23:27:33 rtm_, already done that Jul 30 23:27:44 it's more that sshd is not running Jul 30 23:28:03 can you ping it? Jul 30 23:28:12 yes Jul 30 23:28:16 i know networking ;-) Jul 30 23:28:21 and the issue is sshd is not running Jul 30 23:28:36 do we have the service command? Jul 30 23:28:36 oh Jul 30 23:28:42 or do i have to /etc/init.d/sshd start? Jul 30 23:28:49 (at lot to type) Jul 30 23:28:50 lol Jul 30 23:28:55 that's what I would guess Jul 30 23:29:00 I'm ssh'd into my neo right now, and sshd isn't running on it. Jul 30 23:29:14 isn't it bearssh Jul 30 23:29:23 At least ps | grep ssh doesn't show it. Jul 30 23:29:25 dropbear-d? Jul 30 23:29:33 right dropbear Jul 30 23:31:00 hmm well that is running Jul 30 23:31:02 rtm_: try looking for /usr/sbin/dropbear -- that's what it is on my slugos device Jul 30 23:31:09 and netstat -ant|grep 22 returns it is listening Jul 30 23:31:23 Bah, my phone is stuck in transit :( Jul 30 23:31:25 "PKG DELAY-ADD'L SECURITY CHECK BY GOV'T OR OTHER AGENCY- BEYOND UPS CONTROL" Jul 30 23:31:50 so, is iptables by default enabled? Jul 30 23:32:18 dunno Jul 30 23:32:36 oh, i *have* to use 192.168.0.202 Jul 30 23:32:37 lame Jul 30 23:32:38 i see now Jul 30 23:33:42 well if you didn't want to couldn't you change the ip address on the neo? Jul 30 23:33:51 sure Jul 30 23:33:56 but i'm starting to see the issue Jul 30 23:34:13 my default gw out wifi is 192.168.0.0 Jul 30 23:34:41 daMaestro: Host route? Jul 30 23:34:45 yeah Jul 30 23:35:01 the default gw on the device is 192.168.0.200 Jul 30 23:37:48 ahh Jul 30 23:38:12 ok, where is the wiki article on the networking setup? Jul 30 23:40:15 DOes anyone know of a way to keep the neo from losing track of system time when it is rebooted? Jul 30 23:40:42 yes, that is a very good question Jul 30 23:41:19 hmm i think networkmanager screwed the pooch on this Jul 30 23:42:10 lemme see if i can get away from the 192.168.0.0 UG without toasting my connecting Jul 30 23:42:12 connection* Jul 30 23:42:19 ping? Jul 30 23:43:03 daMaestro: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Getting_Started_with_your_Neo1973#By_using_Ethernet_emulation_over_a_USB_cable Jul 30 23:43:05 hmm my lag meter thinks i'm still here Jul 30 23:43:08 ah! there you are Jul 30 23:43:15 bradpitcher, yeah.. i figured it out Jul 30 23:43:17 daMaestro: FWIW, this is my /e/n/interfaces: http://rafb.net/p/1R7Bfd11.html Jul 30 23:43:21 oh good Jul 30 23:43:26 it was sending the 192.168.0.0 out wlan0 Jul 30 23:43:42 something screwed up my host routing Jul 30 23:45:23 ok.. got it working Jul 30 23:45:58 rtm_: have you tried running hwclock --systohc before rebooting? Jul 30 23:46:16 no - I'll give that a try. Jul 30 23:46:28 hi all, Jul 30 23:46:48 first of all, way to go OpenMoKo Jul 30 23:46:57 woot woot Jul 30 23:47:09 rtm_: can you try it now, just so I know if it worked or not? Jul 30 23:47:17 Hmm. The CPU can be varied down to 36Mhz in 'normal' mode. Jul 30 23:47:18 Arachnid: oh man thats a nasty UPS status to have. Jul 30 23:47:27 yes, I'll have tried it in a minute or so. Jul 30 23:48:37 second, i have been looking at the website trying to figure out the exact size of the phone (heightxwidth,thikness, and weight) Jul 30 23:48:45 anybody can provide that info? Jul 30 23:48:45 zouzou: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (and also SH1_FAQ, Neo1973, Developer_preview and Neo1973_Hardware#GTA01Bv4 pages) (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) Jul 30 23:48:51 faq? Jul 30 23:48:51 See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (and also SH1_FAQ, Neo1973, Developer_preview and Neo1973_Hardware#GTA01Bv4 pages) Jul 30 23:49:06 Basically. It fits just entirely in a coke can. Jul 30 23:49:13 And is 18mm thick. Jul 30 23:50:11 don-o: Yes, really annoying. I hope it gets a move on soon. :/ Jul 30 23:50:33 * hozer wonders if anyone has a picture of a neo next to a treo650 Jul 30 23:51:10 * hozer also wonders when the second batch of phones will ship Jul 30 23:51:19 Vegar: You're my hero - that worked! Thanks a bunch. Jul 30 23:51:24 cool Jul 30 23:51:32 rtm_: maybe you could make a bug report on that Jul 30 23:51:36 sweet! now what shutdown script should we add that command too? Jul 30 23:51:56 root@fic-gta01:~$ uname -r Jul 30 23:51:56 2.6.21.3-moko10 Jul 30 23:51:58 cool Jul 30 23:52:09 so, are we going to end up seen the CFS? Jul 30 23:52:30 Vegar: I'll make a report - it'll be my first. Jul 30 23:52:31 is there any way to force the screen to dim? Jul 30 23:52:59 daMaestro: I guess there's something in /sys Jul 30 23:53:10 morning Jul 30 23:54:07 cool Jul 30 23:54:18 grr.. i need to setup NAT on my laptop so i can connect to the word Jul 30 23:54:23 world* from my neo Jul 30 23:54:37 for now echo "1000" >/sys/class/backlight/gta01-bl/brightness Jul 30 23:54:41 (iirc) Jul 30 23:54:49 ahh, neato Jul 30 23:55:15 mickeyl, yay for arcane commands Jul 30 23:55:15 * daMaestro needs to learn ipkg Jul 30 23:55:38 too bad i don't have a sim to make a call Jul 30 23:55:54 it's raining and i'm at a cafe on my way to buy a prepay sim from tmobile Jul 30 23:56:11 I have SIMs and I still can't make a call. Jul 30 23:56:21 don't get your neo wet! Jul 30 23:56:33 Use a condom! Jul 30 23:56:41 omg haha Jul 30 23:57:24 I have to say though, a phone condom would be pretty nice to have Jul 30 23:58:05 weird... i just tried building angstrom and i ran into a qemu-arm segfault that was observed months ago Jul 30 23:58:24 how do you get just a SIM from tmobile? Jul 30 23:58:25 bradpitcher: aka. a plastic bag? Jul 30 23:58:45 a really clear one so you could still use the phone Jul 30 23:58:54 and it has to seal at the bottom Jul 30 23:59:10 I guess a zip lock might work Jul 30 23:59:16 not sure if you could use the touchscreen through the plastic Jul 30 23:59:38 Tip: A bag that seals at the top can be converted into one that seals at the bottom by turning it upside down! ;) Jul 30 23:59:52 hehe, yep Jul 30 23:59:53 T-Mobile will give you a SIM with no number attached. You can only use it to call their customer service at 611, but that will test your headset. Jul 31 00:00:05 Arachnid: I have need for a bag that seals on the side. Jul 31 00:00:14 any tips for that? Jul 31 00:00:20 Qwell: That's slightly more complicated, but still achievable. Jul 31 00:00:37 Place your bag on a flat surface, grip it firmly with one hand, and rotate 90 degrees clockwise. Jul 31 00:00:44 daMaestro, seeing about compiling a squashfs xen kernel at the side here btw :] Jul 31 00:00:47 If you need to to seal on the left instead of the right, you can flip it first. Jul 31 00:00:52 might go to sleep before long though Jul 31 00:00:54 * cesarb peeks at the channel Jul 31 00:01:03 * cesarb goes back to whatever he was doing before Jul 31 00:01:18 mjr, awesome Jul 31 00:01:23 mjr, let me know (it should work) Jul 31 00:01:44 mjr, i've got a live image that will run as both a full virt and a domU ... (which is in squashfs) Jul 31 00:01:47 Hmm. Jul 31 00:01:55 On smooth scrolling. Jul 31 00:02:05 The LCD controller supports virtual screens. Jul 31 00:02:15 daMaestro, yeah, I'm mostly wondering if I integrated the patch properly into the .deb build process Jul 31 00:02:15 This will give us _very_ smooth full-screen scrolling. Jul 31 00:02:30 SpeedEvil, awesome! Jul 31 00:02:31 The disadvantage is that it will scroll the whole screen only. Jul 31 00:02:31 :-D Jul 31 00:02:41 Including any window decorations. Jul 31 00:02:56 yeah, that scrolling thing. Might be useful for some mapping though Jul 31 00:03:01 and/or games Jul 31 00:03:03 * sagacis is another new owner! Yay! Jul 31 00:03:13 It will reduce the amount of data you need to draw though. Jul 31 00:03:25 As you only need to redraw the 'decoration' on the screen. Jul 31 00:03:29 Not the main panel. Jul 31 00:03:36 SpeedEvil, interesting viewpoint Jul 31 00:03:38 For some scrolling cases. Jul 31 00:03:46 i can now really see a post market mod for a usb based plugin so you can have a gaming or full keyboard right on the device Jul 31 00:03:47 could it be used for full-screen apps? Jul 31 00:03:51 yes. Jul 31 00:03:52 * CoreDump|afk cheers at sagacis Jul 31 00:04:14 you can have a large map - say 1000*1000, and scroll about it using no CPU full-screen. Jul 31 00:04:22 well - that's not strictly true. Jul 31 00:04:31 it does need to update the registers. Jul 31 00:04:57 that's basically no cpu ;) Jul 31 00:05:16 Which brings into mind, can we switch into QVGA mode yet? (Nothing critical, just wondering) Jul 31 00:05:36 mjr: that's on the LCD side, not the CPU Jul 31 00:06:05 yeah I seem to recall so, doesn't really matter for the question though :) Jul 31 00:07:03 One possibly interesting option would be 8-bit - 256 entry pallette operation. This will save a few milliwatts. Jul 31 00:07:17 As it drastically reduces memory bus bandwidth. Jul 31 00:07:26 the hardware can do that? Jul 31 00:07:28 It's probably not worth the coding effort though. Jul 31 00:07:42 yeah, it's kinda passe ;) Jul 31 00:07:48 Is there a lot of coding effort? Can't you simply switch X to use that display mode? Jul 31 00:07:58 I think so. Jul 31 00:08:11 In theory. In practice, the apps all have to support it too. Jul 31 00:08:55 Passe - yes - Is an extra 2-5% of battery life worth it though? Jul 31 00:08:58 * mjr can just imagine Joe Random User flinching as an app reserves a private colormap and the panels become green Jul 31 00:09:21 It would have to have seamless switching. Jul 31 00:09:46 mjr: just have the panel reserve 64 or so colors Jul 31 00:09:54 But, for example, many of the fullscreen apps won't use the full 24 bit colour gamut. Jul 31 00:10:00 windowmaker does that and it works rather well on the old sgi machines at school for me Jul 31 00:10:23 unknown_lamer, the point of a private colormap is that it gives an app all the colors, when it is in focus Jul 31 00:10:32 iirc there is now fbset support for qvga mode on the Neo, but don't quote me on that Jul 31 00:10:36 i know stefan_schmidt worked on that Jul 31 00:10:38 SpeedEvil: Isn't the app supporting it just a matter of the graphics API they use supporting it? Jul 31 00:10:42 However. You are talking about an extra 7ish minutes of battery life in full mode. Jul 31 00:10:45 mickeyl, ack Jul 31 00:10:50 You tell it to draw in full-color and it dithers for the display/ Jul 31 00:10:52 Arachnid: it's more a matter of colour choices. Jul 31 00:10:54 mjr: right, but the wm by virtue of owning the root window can reserve a certain number of colors for itself that clients cannot steal Jul 31 00:11:10 Or you explicitly draw in 256 color mode if you want more control Jul 31 00:11:34 did anyone try the buildhost image from july, 28th? Jul 31 00:11:38 unknown_lamer, oh. Hmm. Ah well. Jul 31 00:11:39 it's missing all icons... Jul 31 00:12:28 mickeyl: There is a QVGA fullscreen mode. Patches are not complete ready and a bit outdated right now. Still need to fix them up. Perhaps next week. Jul 31 00:12:42 For interested people: http://people.openmoko.org/stefan/patches/LCM-QVGA/ Jul 31 00:14:05 what do you think about this as possible vkbd? http://gstaedtner.net/enter.ogg (I write HelloWorld here, output is at momant only printf and I couldn't record this ^^) Jul 31 00:14:13 Goodie; I think I have enough to study for now without those. But nice that they're coming. Will make running sopwith lighter on the cpu ;) Jul 31 00:15:12 You're going to run a WW1 biplane on the Neo? Jul 31 00:15:26 Arachnid, you're god-damn right Jul 31 00:15:45 (and yes I have a BT keypad for controls) Jul 31 00:16:59 heh Jul 31 00:17:05 mjr, awesome Jul 31 00:17:25 i'm trying to get prboom built and installed Jul 31 00:17:31 with the Free wads Jul 31 00:17:35 :) Jul 31 00:17:47 i just don't know ipkg at all Jul 31 00:18:07 * daMaestro does know rpm packaging.. so ipkg can't be too hard Jul 31 00:18:29 so iirc we are supposed to get something like apt? Jul 31 00:18:35 would be closer to dpkg, but they're not so different, just different places to stick stuff Jul 31 00:18:51 yeah, i never learned dpkg, only how to use it Jul 31 00:20:36 ipkg is dirt-simple, which is it's biggest strength, as well as a huge problem. Jul 31 00:21:20 wiki search failed; can the usb port at this moment be switched to host mode? Jul 31 00:21:22 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Neo1973_Power_Management]] [[P1_Owners]] [[Talk:Application_Development_Crash_Course]] [[OpenMoko_Local_Groups:_Frankfurt_Main]] Jul 31 00:21:38 I mean with the current kernel image / drivers Jul 31 00:29:44 the wiki could use a page that documents Neo-particular /sys and /proc stuff Jul 31 00:30:00 Is the neo memory 16 or 32 bits wide? Jul 31 00:30:43 it's 1073741824 bits wide Jul 31 00:30:54 (yeah, I think I should get some sleep too) Jul 31 00:32:06 ...what are the last two bits used for? Jul 31 00:32:06 dmwit: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (and also SH1_FAQ, Neo1973, Developer_preview and Neo1973_Hardware#GTA01Bv4 pages) (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) Jul 31 00:33:51 * SpeedEvil is trying to work out memory bus bandwidth, and constraints on clocking speed while refreshing the LCD Jul 31 00:33:54 * * OM Bug 670 has been created by kyoung(AT)cfa.harvard.edu Jul 31 00:33:55 * * neo1973 forgets system time when rebooted Jul 31 00:33:56 * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=670 Jul 31 00:34:21 It needs to be at least 80Mhz. Jul 31 00:34:31 For VGA. Jul 31 00:34:39 QVGA is 19. Jul 31 00:35:19 Which in practice means 32Mhz Jul 31 00:38:34 SpeedEveil: Are you asuming 16 bit color? Jul 31 00:39:54 Writchie: no - the width of the RAM chip I mean. Jul 31 00:40:12 no I mean in coming up with 80Mhz Jul 31 00:40:45 I'm looking at P386 of the datasheet. Jul 31 00:40:54 HCLK >VCLK*4 Jul 31 00:41:01 and 640*480*60 = 19Mhz Jul 31 00:41:21 And HCLK and FCLK is the CPU frequency Jul 31 00:42:53 you looking at rev 1.1 UM? Jul 31 00:43:43 um_s3c2410s_rev12_030428.pdf Jul 31 00:44:06 Where did you get rev12? Jul 31 00:45:01 Dunno. Jul 31 00:45:12 Hang on. Jul 31 00:45:33 i just found it in korea linux group, hold on. Jul 31 00:45:49 hope its in english Jul 31 00:46:02 It si. Jul 31 00:46:05 * cesarb has 993579um_s3c2410a_rev11.pdf Jul 31 00:46:41 Googling the name reveals www.hhcn.org/maindoc/um_s3c2410s_rev12_030428.pdf Jul 31 00:47:02 http://www.samsung.com/Products/Semiconductor/SystemLSI/MobileSolution Jul 31 00:47:03 s/ Jul 31 00:47:03 Mobile ASSP/MobileComputing/S3C2410X/um_s3c2410s_rev12_030428.pdf Jul 31 00:47:06 or that Jul 31 00:47:44 SpeedEvil: but the CPU on the neo is S3C2410A, not S3C2410S or something which starts with S... Jul 31 00:48:28 will the gta01 debug board work with the gta02? Jul 31 00:49:32 BryceLeo: I believe i heard no Jul 31 00:50:12 I heard yes, but not for GTA03 Jul 31 00:50:36 haha good so it's a definate maybe Jul 31 00:50:37 rwhitby: you're mostly likely right Jul 31 00:50:54 maybe is always more correct Jul 31 00:50:58 until you see it Jul 31 00:51:09 This is the generic datasheet covering all the variants - AIUI Jul 31 00:51:24 i mean i could see getting an 01 and updating to the 02 as long as i don't have to buy two advanced kits Jul 31 00:51:29 (i have a tendency to brick things) Jul 31 00:51:36 * BryceLeo looks at 2 dead routers Jul 31 00:51:41 BryceLeo: last i heard, you'd just need a different debug cable Jul 31 00:52:09 I think bricking is unlikely unless you are working on uboot Jul 31 00:52:11 ckuethe: well that sounds perfect to me Jul 31 00:52:17 something about the jtag board itself being useful, but the phone-debug cable would be different Jul 31 00:52:37 well, my bricking was pretty unlucky one was a flash of a bad download and the other was a flash and the power went out Jul 31 00:52:37 especially since it's supposed to present a fairly generic jtag interface for talking to all things ARM.... Jul 31 00:53:00 ckuethe: that makes sense to me, looks like i'm saving up the moola Jul 31 00:53:02 and from that you learned to always have a big fat UPS between your debug station and the wall... Jul 31 00:53:24 the board is worth it - just not for just unbricking Jul 31 00:53:51 Writchie: yes i realize it's not just for that, but that's the main concern, and i would like to play around with the other features Jul 31 00:54:03 do you guys think that they're gonna do the full production run for all the orders? or do you figure that they're going to say sorry to the last X number of orders? Jul 31 00:54:27 they'll just keep making more. Jul 31 00:54:54 i would suspect GT02 later than October Jul 31 00:55:03 ckuethe: lol yeah i got 2 big aps units in my room now Jul 31 00:55:09 I would suspect they will keep running GT01's Jul 31 00:55:25 i'm personally expecting the gta02 in december, maybe in time for christmas Jul 31 00:55:36 Me, i'm more interested in GTA03 Jul 31 00:55:36 friend of mine lost his core switch, ap, digital cable receiver and microwave to an electrical storm on saturday night Jul 31 00:55:45 I'm expecting GTA02 next year Jul 31 00:56:03 i'm not expecting it at all... it'll be here when it's here and no sooner than that. Jul 31 00:56:18 ckuethe: ouch... that's rough, last year i lost a $1500 pioneer elite reciever Jul 31 00:56:25 Of course, because of Hofstadter's, all guesswork is pointless Jul 31 00:56:28 ckuethe: i just didn't apply the good lessson all around Jul 31 00:56:40 there are tons of crappy products out there because they were rushed to market Jul 31 00:56:42 hofstadters? Jul 31 00:56:44 this is why you need 48VDC power Jul 31 00:56:51 Writchie: lol Jul 31 00:56:57 BryceLeo: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hofstadter's_Law Jul 31 00:57:02 Writchie: your 48VDC has to come from somewhere... Jul 31 00:57:02 where have you guys been seeing news about gta03? Jul 31 00:57:21 2v lead acid batteries Jul 31 00:57:29 which will eventually run down Jul 31 00:57:35 cesarb: lol good law Jul 31 00:57:44 the general lesson is "make sure you have good clean reliable power" Jul 31 00:57:57 cesarb: how did you like the app dev crash course? any critique/criticism? Jul 31 00:58:12 personally, i preferred it when computers had an MG set Jul 31 00:58:13 * cesarb wonders why does that wiki page has "Second law of thermodynamics" under the "see also" section Jul 31 00:58:49 * BryceLeo wonders the same as cesarb Jul 31 01:00:42 BryceLeo: you do not need the comentary on /home/moko, since I've purged that path from the mokomakefile wiki page, and the part on setup-env is a bit unclear, as you can see by the talk page Jul 31 01:00:50 SpeedEvil: I like this "these two HCLKs may cause a confusion" Jul 31 01:01:32 BryceLeo: other than that, looks good, but I haven't looked at it closely Jul 31 01:02:36 cesarb: alrighty sounds good, i'll fix that up Jul 31 01:05:06 SpeedEvil: I downloaded that "rev12" manual and took a look Jul 31 01:05:22 SpeedEvil: not only it seems to be for a different SOC, it's _older_ than the "rev11" I have Jul 31 01:05:34 SpeedEvil: sorry if it changes all your calculations ;-) Jul 31 01:06:04 Dunno - I'll check. Jul 31 01:06:23 Interestingly - the part number decoder says that the version in the neo has 48K ROM Jul 31 01:06:31 SpeedEvil: the date of the "rev11" one is 2007, the "rev12" one is 2003 Jul 31 01:06:37 That's what the 'A' is. Jul 31 01:07:17 *sigh* why did FIC have the delivery require an adult signature? :( Jul 31 01:07:30 moko-bunny: FIC, or UPS? Jul 31 01:07:56 I'm guessing FIC....UPS normally leaves everything at my door...they don't even knock when I'm here Jul 31 01:08:11 * happycube left a signed note saying "drop [tracking #] off" Jul 31 01:08:53 oh well, I'll pick it up tomorrow Jul 31 01:09:34 SpeedEvil: I'm going mostly by what's on the wiki, since my RT# is on the 3500s Jul 31 01:10:31 SpeedEvil: and the link it had was to the "rev11" thing, at least before the confusing flash-ladden deep-directory-hierarchy site it was in danced things around Jul 31 01:10:58 Basically the same. Jul 31 01:11:13 SpeedEvil: Looks more like 60 Mhz for vga taking 58% of bus bandwidth. Jul 31 01:11:24 At what clock speed? Jul 31 01:11:46 Is that FCLK=HCLK=60Mhz? Jul 31 01:11:48 HCLK 60Mz Jul 31 01:12:08 Actually - the memory bus is on HCLK isn't it. Jul 31 01:12:51 I think so Jul 31 01:13:15 Has anyone seen the following problem: the neo can place outgoing calls which connect successfully, but neither the speak nor the microphone seems to work? The phone connects, but no audio flowes in either direction. Jul 31 01:13:17 SDRAM's at high rate are a very big power hit Jul 31 01:13:30 Can anyone write to the emulated SD card on the emulated Neo? All I get is "s3c_mmci_write: Bad register 0x38" and nothing seems to get written at all Jul 31 01:13:48 Writchie: indeed - I'd like hard power numbers. Jul 31 01:13:54 cesarb: i've got the same problem Jul 31 01:13:59 rtm_: that means you didn't configure the codec correctly Jul 31 01:14:15 But I'm waiting on power. Jul 31 01:14:16 How do I configure the codec? Jul 31 01:14:22 can get good numbers for the micron parts, probably similar Jul 31 01:14:30 Is that explained somewhere? Jul 31 01:14:37 rtm_: yes Jul 31 01:14:39 Writchie: that'd be interesting. Jul 31 01:15:04 in the end you have to measure it, but calculations should be within 20% Jul 31 01:15:37 i haven't speed much time on it here because it is what it is! Jul 31 01:15:41 cesarb: Do you know where that is explained? Jul 31 01:16:18 wonder if we could clock lcd at 30hz refresh a dim the backlight and get away with it? Jul 31 01:16:24 Ah. It's http://www.samsung.com/global/system/business/semiconductor/product/2007/6/11/MobileSDRAM/MobileSDRSDRAM/512Mbit/K4M511633C/ds_k4m511633c.pdf Jul 31 01:16:38 IMO, the right way to do that is to drop to QVGA mode. Jul 31 01:16:46 as well Jul 31 01:16:54 rtm_: I'm not finding the page with the long explanation on the audio subsystem right now, but http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Manually_using_GSM has some of the alsa commands which were used back then Jul 31 01:17:03 QVGA mode takes you below the clock minimum anyway. Jul 31 01:17:20 PM on this chip sucks compared to many others Jul 31 01:17:51 8 bit 256 colour mode then takes it down to 4.7Mhz Jul 31 01:18:01 Err. Jul 31 01:18:04 Mbytes/s Jul 31 01:18:23 but its 4 bytes wide I think Jul 31 01:18:30 it is. Jul 31 01:18:43 cesarb: Yes, I've looked at tha manual GSM page. It doesn't mention codec, though. Jul 31 01:18:51 it's also burst on the sdram Jul 31 01:19:02 rtm_: the codec is controlled via alsa, search for alsa Jul 31 01:19:06 It's I think 4 byte burst though only. Jul 31 01:19:19 has anyone done bandwidth tests for vram? Jul 31 01:19:36 rtm, have you tried looking in alsa mixer and making sure the volumes are turned up and not muted and that recsrc is set to mic? Jul 31 01:19:38 i'll have to look, should be programmable on sdram controller Jul 31 01:20:08 I'm guessing that it'll be around 133Mhz * 4byte Jul 31 01:20:13 cesarb: Do you know what the codec should be? And why wouldn't the proper one be set in the rootfs image? Jul 31 01:20:16 == 600Mbytes/sec. Jul 31 01:20:33 rtm_: the codec is the chip Jul 31 01:20:36 That's at maximum speed. Jul 31 01:20:43 rtm_: you have to load the correct configuration on it Jul 31 01:20:53 rtm_: (sound chip I mean) Jul 31 01:21:06 speed, that's not too bad, though i wonder how many uh "virtual wait states" are introduced by the video doing its dma Jul 31 01:21:18 rtm_: there are several configurations; for instance, doing a call via BT is very different than playing an MP3 to the headset Jul 31 01:21:39 rtm_: and they are kinda complex, so it's best to get a working state file and ask the alsa commands to load it Jul 31 01:22:19 cesarb: Thanks - I'll try to do that. Jul 31 01:22:41 galexande: It's not _too_ bad. you're looking at 55Mbytes/sec or so. galexande - maybe 15% or so at max speed. Jul 31 01:22:52 hopefully this isn't too dumb of a question... how does one "bitbake -cclean openmoko-rssreader" and then "update svn". (I'm using mokomakefile) Jul 31 01:23:13 the cache helps a lot. Jul 31 01:23:39 but i think the blting through memory will be the stress Jul 31 01:24:14 you have both the lcd plus read and write on the blts Jul 31 01:24:17 It would be sooo easier if we could just ask the screen "self-refresh yourself, I'm gonna take a nap" Jul 31 01:24:38 next generation will do precisely that Jul 31 01:25:15 actually, with e-paper you can just flash and the paper surface holds Jul 31 01:25:31 5 years out at least Jul 31 01:26:03 moko-bunny: the first one is "make clean-package-openmoko-rssreader" Jul 31 01:26:04 Ok - as I see it - burst mode is 100mA or 300mW, or 600mW for both. Jul 31 01:26:09 oled with onboard memory will solve the power problem. Jul 31 01:26:21 Writchie: epaper is already in a consumer phone in the US, it's got a chance for next year or year after Jul 31 01:26:23 OLED isn't really frugal. Jul 31 01:26:42 So, 60mW-90mW is probably a reasonable guess. Jul 31 01:26:50 moko-bunny: the second one is "make update-openmoko" (but most of the time you'll do "make update" instead) Jul 31 01:26:54 For the LCD running. Jul 31 01:27:00 OLED isn't going anywhere till they can make them so that they stop dimming in a couple years Jul 31 01:27:13 So, maybe a 60mW saving going to QVGA Jul 31 01:27:18 100ma sounds reasonable Jul 31 01:27:31 that's just the sdram Jul 31 01:27:37 Indeed. Jul 31 01:27:42 bryce: 1500 hours for the average blue oled. Jul 31 01:27:57 cesarb: thanks...hopefully my ubuntu install isn't borked...had to manual install because of software RAID :-/ Jul 31 01:28:12 500mW or so is the backlight anyway. Jul 31 01:28:20 So the saving is _relatively_ small. Jul 31 01:28:25 juri_: that's still not too good... Jul 31 01:28:36 500mw at full? Jul 31 01:28:41 Yes. Jul 31 01:28:45 moko-bunny: if you got to the point where you had webkit problems and had to do these things to update to a working revision, it can't be that broken... Jul 31 01:28:54 That's a very dubious power number from one source though. Jul 31 01:29:08 you just slowly drop backlight to 20% so user doesn't notice Jul 31 01:29:24 SpeedEvil: you could do like the razr, where the longest timeout for the backlight is 20s (and the default is way smaller than that) ;-) Jul 31 01:29:27 bryce: no, its not. Jul 31 01:29:48 cesarb: yeah, it seems to work fine otherwise..I don't have sound up or X optimized yet, but meh :) Jul 31 01:29:51 (very annoying btw, I used IIRC 1 or 2 min on my Zire 72) Jul 31 01:29:52 my projector system cooks a bulb every 1500 hours or so. Jul 31 01:30:26 heh, i use my phone alot more often than i use my projector! Jul 31 01:30:28 could really use an ambient light sensor Jul 31 01:30:39 Anyone with hardware, a DMM, and a spare USB lead? Jul 31 01:30:47 Writchie: wasn't one planned for phase 2? Jul 31 01:30:52 i hope Jul 31 01:31:11 SpeedEvil: I setup to measure. Jul 31 01:31:23 You've got a neo? Jul 31 01:31:25 I will use scope Jul 31 01:31:32 yeah I have two of them Jul 31 01:31:43 Well, how about the following way of faking it: use the lightest setting by default, and the user can click on a corner to increase (even if he can't see the screen) if he's outdoors Jul 31 01:32:12 i always asume the dumb ass user is - well - dumb? Jul 31 01:32:13 Writchie: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Unresolved_Hardware_Questions Jul 31 01:32:24 Including suggestions of what might be nice to measure. Jul 31 01:33:06 Plus - having to touch the screen to alter brightness is silly. Jul 31 01:33:09 will try to do this tommorrow - atm I don't trust the charging Jul 31 01:33:15 Most people will leave it at 100% Jul 31 01:33:22 counter Jul 31 01:33:22 (last update 2007-07-27 06:54) http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter : Order https://direct.openmoko.com/ ; Delivered prob. 75% in a day 17:13:16 (1.718±1.7 days) (1785;251) Jul 31 01:33:23 hm, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neo1973 could use a real picture of a neo Jul 31 01:33:28 doh Jul 31 01:33:41 SpeedEvil: I leave the brightness at the minimum on all my gadgets. always. Jul 31 01:33:58 Well - if you go outside, that might not work so well. Jul 31 01:34:00 SpeedEvil: it saves a lot of battery, and most of the time is more than enough Jul 31 01:34:14 SpeedEvil: when I'm outside, I have to squint a bit, of course ;-) Jul 31 01:34:14 :) Jul 31 01:34:14 cesarb never goes outside. Jul 31 01:34:26 (he is an evil dark monster) Jul 31 01:34:48 I want an expansion back with the entire back as e-ink. Jul 31 01:34:50 ferric: er, I walk about 15 minutes to work. uphill. both ways. twice a day (since I eat luch near the bus stop) Jul 31 01:34:50 i don't suppose they instrumented the charge circuitry Jul 31 01:34:55 But that's hard. Jul 31 01:35:01 Writchie: I don't think so. Jul 31 01:35:04 cesarb: that must be hard for you during daylight! Jul 31 01:35:04 (ok, it's uphill one way, downhill the other) Jul 31 01:35:08 haha Jul 31 01:35:10 Writchie: look round /proc and /sys Jul 31 01:35:14 uphill bothways got me thinking. Jul 31 01:35:41 SpeedEvil: liek the moto e-ink phone? Jul 31 01:35:48 you mention'd led's - are these supposed to be in P1 Jul 31 01:35:53 ferric: no - the _entire_ back. Jul 31 01:35:55 P2 Jul 31 01:35:57 only. Jul 31 01:36:16 under control of processor or charge circuitry Jul 31 01:36:17 SpeedEvil: back is e-ink front is touchscreen?! Jul 31 01:36:32 Basically. Jul 31 01:36:46 A colour display is a nice addition. Jul 31 01:36:50 writchie, i believe charging is handled by a single chip "power solution" Jul 31 01:36:51 and there is a 5" thick book in the middle to handle that :P Jul 31 01:36:55 E-ink is mono, and grayscale sucks. Jul 31 01:37:27 e-ink's refresh is incredibly slow Jul 31 01:37:31 That too. Jul 31 01:37:39 And it has high 'bad pixel' rate. Jul 31 01:38:21 galexande: if so no charge led indicator is not much of a solution ;) Jul 31 01:38:29 looking at the philips part now Jul 31 01:38:57 writchie, ah i was about to url you to it :) Jul 31 01:41:38 it looks pretty awesome to me. Jul 31 01:43:34 it seems to me like this sucker is capable of producing plenty of +5V for USB, i wonder what they are using that output for. Jul 31 01:43:56 anti-theft measures. Jul 31 01:44:50 joke? :) Jul 31 01:45:55 rwhitby: I have a new patch for mokomakefile at http://www.pastebin.ca/640065, which creates a virtual SD card to ease copying of .ipk files to be installed on the image (complete with a copy-package-% target to do all the work for you) Jul 31 01:46:48 rwhitby: the created SD image is a sparse file (uses only 1M when empty), and needs dosfstools which most distros should already have installed by default (it's used for /sbin/fsck.vfat) Jul 31 01:47:10 rwhitby: the copy-package-% target needs mtools Jul 31 01:47:48 rwhitby: this makes it easier to copy files _to_ the emulated neo; copying _from_ is harder since write support for the emulated SD card seems to be broken Jul 31 01:51:02 cesarb: THanks for your help - I can now hear my calls. I'd have never figured that out on my own. Jul 31 01:51:48 rwhitby: better version: http://www.pastebin.ca/640072, which adds -v to the mcopy call so the user can see what was actually copied Jul 31 01:51:55 * * OM Bug 671 has been created by  Jul 31 01:51:56 * * openmoko-rssreader-0.0.1+svn20070722-r1-do_configure Jul 31 01:51:57 * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=671 Jul 31 01:55:12 anybody know if the GTA01 has a backup battery? Jul 31 01:55:32 Writchie: it has a small battery on one corner, check the photos... Jul 31 01:55:33 yes, it does. Jul 31 01:55:50 Writchie: but I don't know which of the many RTCs it's connected to Jul 31 01:56:15 rssreader's expecting webkitgtk now... guess webkit's not in Jul 31 01:56:22 i was thinking of PM chip, which would suck if didn't have one Jul 31 01:56:23 * cesarb would guess it's the GSM module's RTC, just because it's the most annoying option Jul 31 01:56:26 The Neo1973 Power Managment page may list it Jul 31 01:56:43 I _really_ hope they diddn't screw that up. Jul 31 01:56:52 As it'd make GPS stuff quite hard. Jul 31 01:57:03 would explain the funky charge behaviour Jul 31 01:57:20 If the RTC on the GSM module is the only one which survives battery removal, it means gsmd would have to update it once in a while... and then get back the time from it on boot if the PM RTC has a broken time... Jul 31 01:57:27 Look for oscillation on the 32Khz xtal, if you can see it. Jul 31 01:58:07 hey, i only have two of these Jul 31 01:58:22 I just mean if you can see it - not rip cans off :) Jul 31 01:58:48 lol Jul 31 02:00:04 btw, the sim and microsd holders are completely unsuitable for Americans Jul 31 02:00:18 they will break them in first 5 minutes Jul 31 02:00:30 i.e. if they can get the case open Jul 31 02:01:05 Writchie - gee, I thought I had my webcam turned off. Jul 31 02:01:46 * mwester silences his "gross stereotyping" alarm Jul 31 02:01:54 lol Jul 31 02:02:06 i noticed the microsd seemed a bit light ;) Jul 31 02:02:10 (didn't break it) Jul 31 02:02:37 it's not a user servicable part Jul 31 02:02:54 * BryceLeo can crush rocks in one hand, and crade kittens in the other Jul 31 02:03:05 * BryceLeo won't break no stinkin' sim card holder Jul 31 02:03:18 * BryceLeo or will get a replacment neo and not tell a soul Jul 31 02:03:36 lol Jul 31 02:04:05 wait a sec.... did anyone ever post a link to this info about a gta03? Jul 31 02:04:16 i'd swear someone id dbut i can't find it... Jul 31 02:05:30 gta01 = RC1, gta02 = RC2, gta03 real device Jul 31 02:06:13 ahh so gta03 is gonna have the accelermometers, wifi etc Jul 31 02:06:44 no GTA02 will have these Jul 31 02:06:44 No - 02 has the accels. Jul 31 02:07:00 03 hasn't been revealed AIUI. Jul 31 02:07:00 so what does 03 have that 02 doesn't? Jul 31 02:07:04 It's speculation. Jul 31 02:07:07 user input Jul 31 02:07:10 oh... well that's all ya had to say!! Jul 31 02:07:36 with a closed phone you buy it when development is done Jul 31 02:07:40 it will never get better Jul 31 02:07:51 with open phone you buy it when development begins Jul 31 02:07:55 it gets better Jul 31 02:08:05 The iPhone might get better. Jul 31 02:08:11 dream on Jul 31 02:08:23 t Jul 31 02:08:31 current iPhone is end of design - they will put nothing more into it. Jul 31 02:08:32 The iPhone better get better. Jul 31 02:08:33 rtm: you don't think they'll do exactly what sony/PSP did - and patch the holes? Jul 31 02:08:44 i'm refer to models Jul 31 02:09:04 bc -l Jul 31 02:09:05 you mean apple? Jul 31 02:09:10 crap... this isn't my terminal Jul 31 02:09:13 I expect they will make new applications available. Jul 31 02:09:27 BryceLeo: I do that all the time Jul 31 02:09:28 Copyright 1991-1994, 1997, 1998, 2000 Free Software Foundation, Inc. Jul 31 02:09:28 This is free software with ABSOLUTELY NO WARRANTY. Jul 31 02:09:28 For details type `warranty'. Jul 31 02:09:32 apple is working on the follow on models Jul 31 02:09:44 sagacis: one day you all are gonna get my root password Jul 31 02:09:45 OK, I lost my panel when I tried to dial, then all visible apps went away Jul 31 02:09:57 ssh still shows everything running.... What's the recovery? Jul 31 02:10:23 ctrl-alt-backspace isn't really an option Jul 31 02:10:35 killall X Jul 31 02:10:41 I presume it will respawn Jul 31 02:10:50 or shutdown -h -t 0 now Jul 31 02:10:50 "no process killed" Jul 31 02:11:02 BTW - is there any way to form control characters with the onscreen keyboard? Jul 31 02:11:03 I guess so. Jul 31 02:11:11 Using the matchbox keyboard, you can Jul 31 02:12:18 Rebooting is ugly. That makes it windows. Jul 31 02:12:53 sagacis: rebooting is a time-honored tradition on the embedded world Jul 31 02:13:07 sagacis: when an airliner's computers goes haywire, they reboot it Jul 31 02:13:23 sagacis: when a spaceship's computer starts misbehaving, they reboot it Jul 31 02:13:28 Is there any way to change the edit summary tag after you commit it on the wiki? Jul 31 02:13:43 * SpeedEvil typoed. Jul 31 02:13:53 sagacis: they even have watchdog timers whose sole purpose is to automatically reboot things! Jul 31 02:13:54 cesarb: need a better name than 'copy-package-%' cause in future we might add support for copying the package to the real device Jul 31 02:13:59 my treo650 would reboot when I got too many messages in teh inbox Jul 31 02:14:11 SpeedEvil: no unless you have database access Jul 31 02:14:19 Oh well. Jul 31 02:14:24 rwhitby: hm... Jul 31 02:14:26 when your openmoko phone acts up, connect a JTAG debugger ! ;) Jul 31 02:14:56 rwhitby: how about qemu-copy-package-sd-%? Jul 31 02:14:58 when your iphone randomly reboots, hope it wasn't a hacker Jul 31 02:15:12 * hozer wonders how to make that into a commercial Jul 31 02:15:15 cesarb: how about qemu-install-package-% Jul 31 02:15:26 rwhitby: no, because it doesn't actually install Jul 31 02:15:34 rwhitby: you still have to do the ipkg by hand Jul 31 02:15:40 ok, qemu-copy-package-% will do then Jul 31 02:15:42 hozer: "hi, I'm a Neo..." Jul 31 02:15:53 +1 to qemu-copy-package-% Jul 31 02:17:02 openmoko: 03rwhitby * r106 10mokomakefile/trunk/Makefile: Added support for a virtual SD card, and the ability to copy built packages to it. Thanks to cesarb. Jul 31 02:17:36 cesarb: can you (or someone else) add some doco to the MokoMakefile wiki page for that? Jul 31 02:17:45 rwhitby: will do Jul 31 02:17:53 BryceLeo: can you add that to the tutorial too? Jul 31 02:19:45 rwhitby: will do Jul 31 02:19:58 SpeedEvil: power-in measurements won't be very accurate with switch mode character in the loop Jul 31 02:20:06 thanks guys - nice addition! Jul 31 02:20:09 i think i'll just instrument a battery Jul 31 02:20:18 rwhitby: i'm not sure if it's necessary, i have the packages get built right into the image... hmm... Jul 31 02:22:02 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[GTA01_gsm_modem]] [[OpenMoko_Local_Groups:_Central_Texas]] [[OpenMoko_Local_Groups]] [[Trademark_Policy]] [[User:Bryce.Leo]] [[Application_Development_Crash_Course]] [[Talk:Application_Development_Crash_Course]] [[Wish_List]] [[Five-second-press]] and other changes Jul 31 02:23:42 rwhitby: i'll put that in when i go through tomorrow or the day after and put in the GDK app example as well Jul 31 02:24:26 Hmmm... "EVENT: Netreg registration denied" Jul 31 02:24:59 Well, added it to the wiki, I hope I remembered the path within /media correctly Jul 31 02:25:25 Writchie: character? Jul 31 02:25:26 (/media/mmcblk0 IIRC... It's late right now, I will go to sleep, and the emulator takes too long to warm up) Jul 31 02:25:50 Writchie: instrumented battery works too. There is IIRC a /proc somewhere for bat volts. Jul 31 02:26:08 i just mean temp hardware wise Jul 31 02:26:19 i'll measure in non-charging state Jul 31 02:26:37 cesarb: what time is it by you/ Jul 31 02:26:44 BryceLeo: 23:26 Jul 31 02:26:59 (in fact, I should already have gone to sleep... but this channel is too fun) Jul 31 02:27:00 su Jul 31 02:27:10 sorry wrong screen Jul 31 02:27:27 ah Jul 31 02:27:30 cesarb: lol i'm in eastern standard so i'm at 22:27 and i've gotta be up at 6:00 Jul 31 02:27:30 Writchie: today everybody seems to be confusing the terminals... Jul 31 02:27:52 i'm vnc into antoher box then into neo Jul 31 02:28:15 cesarb: this is one heck of a fun channel, i bought webhosting at dreamhost so that i could get a shell and use ircII to connect in Jul 31 02:28:21 because IRC is blocked at my job Jul 31 02:28:45 I will also have get up some minutes after 6:00 (to get the bus by 7:00)... And it's COLD today, and I heard tomorrow will be worse, so it's even harder to wake up :P Jul 31 02:30:06 haha, i can never wake up in the winter! my boss is great though and just lets me come in up to a half hour late as long as i tack on that time to when i leave Jul 31 02:35:08 night all Jul 31 02:36:01 night cesarb Jul 31 02:43:56 hey all Jul 31 02:45:44 so, whats up? Jul 31 02:46:11 ZerothCloned: sup Jul 31 02:46:25 * happycube has an angstrom image to try out Jul 31 02:46:29 ZerothCloned: just working on geting the whole gtk app thing for the cras course Jul 31 02:49:07 happycube: may I ask what an angstrom image is without looking stupid? Jul 31 02:49:37 ZerothCloned: lol don't feel bad i just learned what it is today Jul 31 02:55:00 angstrom is a distribution Jul 31 02:55:25 http://www.angstrom-distribution.org/ Jul 31 02:58:39 ah, cool Jul 31 02:58:47 angstrom image for what device then? **** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Jul 31 02:59:56 2007