**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Aug 01 02:59:57 2007 Aug 01 03:17:18 hmm Aug 01 03:17:21 134kbit Aug 01 03:17:24 that's a bit more reasonable Aug 01 03:38:35 Hallelujah! Aug 01 04:22:33 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[P1_Owners]] [[User:Alive]] [[Applications]] [[Talk:Application_Development_Crash_Course]] Aug 01 04:27:36 Hi, I've had a look on the wiki, but cant find the voltage that the SoC is run at? Aug 01 04:28:10 I assume 2v, but would like to verify for sanity's sake Aug 01 04:31:54 * * OM Bug 674 has been created by olvaffe(AT)gmail.com Aug 01 04:31:55 * * compile in profiling support Aug 01 04:31:56 * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=674 Aug 01 04:40:37 hmm... Aug 01 04:41:55 hmm... again Aug 01 04:42:33 test again Aug 01 04:56:17 from my neo Aug 01 04:57:00 using telnet (the hard way) Aug 01 04:57:18 is Aug 01 04:57:34 is calling it a night. Aug 01 05:11:23 weee. Neo out for delivery Aug 01 05:12:31 Does anyone know for certain which of the codec files in /etc/alsa should be used for normal phone calls? Aug 01 05:22:33 DOes anyone know for certain which of the files in /etc/alsa should be fed to aslactl to make the audio on the neo work for normal phone calls? Aug 01 05:28:43 Taco: I think it's pretty dead here tonight :( I'd like to know the same thing. Aug 01 05:29:15 Well, it's nice to know there's someone else here. Aug 01 05:29:21 would have though they would use a codec at all Aug 01 05:29:27 wouldnt* Aug 01 05:29:28 Anything else we can compare notes on? Aug 01 05:29:59 Taco: look at the wiki all the specs are there Aug 01 05:30:17 Taco: or post a question to the list Aug 01 05:30:31 Could you point me to the page? I've searched for alsa, but found nothing. Aug 01 05:31:04 Taco: I got mine flashed with the latest images on buildhost... and then played with the phone a little...never crashed yet, managed to "receive a call", but no audio. Aug 01 05:31:14 Taco: Im tryin to figure out why you would need a codec Aug 01 05:31:19 Oh wait, I searched for alsactl - there is stuff under alsa. Aug 01 05:31:33 lots of things just don't do much, but as expected that is :) Aug 01 05:31:44 moko-bunny: That's about where I am. Aug 01 05:32:40 I can place calls, and if I feed gsmhandset.working.state to alsactl, my audio is sent, but I never hear audio coming back. Aug 01 05:34:00 heh, perhaps I'd be further, but I went flying this evening :D Aug 01 05:34:32 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973_Audio_Subsystem Aug 01 05:34:33 Geez - You can no longer call yourself a nerd. Aug 01 05:35:03 well...umm, my plane has a garmin 496 in it, am I redeemed back to nerd-ville :) Aug 01 05:35:47 linux_galore: Thanks! Aug 01 05:36:34 that pretty much covers everything Aug 01 05:38:26 they are also working on getting pulse-audio sound system working in Linux Aug 01 05:38:40 it will make life allot easier Aug 01 05:39:02 Oh - I'm way ahead of them. I've gotten lots of pulses of audio out of my neo. Aug 01 05:39:15 lol Aug 01 05:40:53 anyway back to making money, dam I ran out of ink Aug 01 06:19:13 moin Aug 01 06:21:58 interesting to see how long before Neo973 starts becoming available at ebay most of time Aug 01 06:22:05 (with reasonable prices ;-) Aug 01 06:23:01 I'll bet they'd go reasonably quickly. Aug 01 06:23:13 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[P1_Owners]] [[Hardware:Neo1973:Alternate_Cases:Camera]] [[User:Wvrn]] [[OpenMoko_Local_Groups:_Toronto]] [[Web_Browser]] Aug 01 06:23:50 Im surprised bu the interest in a phone that doesnt really work but is open source Aug 01 06:23:57 by* Aug 01 06:24:00 Taco: right, thus ".. most of time.." meaning demand has been mostly satisfied Aug 01 06:24:35 Linux_Galore_: hehe, well its really only "game in the town" ;-) Aug 01 06:24:53 Well, on the community list, there are plenty of people who sound misserable because they think they'll have to wait for the second batch. Aug 01 06:24:54 OpenFeet, open source shoes for the new generation Aug 01 06:25:14 either they can ship enough to meet demand or GTA02 becomes available Aug 01 06:25:38 In think things will get seriously rolling when the GTA02 comes out Aug 01 06:25:41 hi there Aug 01 06:25:47 (they should be able to manufacture, its shipping to consumer logistics that is slow at the moment) Aug 01 06:26:19 Yeah - maybe openmoko should just put them on eBay themselves. Aug 01 06:26:34 Taco: yeah, its slow at the moment it seems Aug 01 06:26:50 Im surprised at that too, they may get better prices on ebay Aug 01 06:26:59 well.. doubt ebay would be less work Aug 01 06:27:01 I've got mine, and I'm a happy guy. Aug 01 06:27:30 Taco: bet your going round to all your geek friends and showing them the boot screen Aug 01 06:28:08 Yes - they see the penguin, and they start chasing me. Aug 01 06:29:01 three guys in our LUG have ordered a GTA01, another like me is waiting for the 02 Aug 01 06:29:54 The '01 is a struggle - I've had it since Friday, and I've yet to make a successful phone call. Aug 01 06:30:04 Taco: have you put it next to a 5G iPOD yet, from the measurements it should be allot larger Aug 01 06:30:40 Taco: well the software isnt finished yet Aug 01 06:31:08 No, I've not made that comparison. It's much smaller than my Treo 700p, though, and it has 3 times as many pixels." Aug 01 06:31:31 hehe, I've got an expensive Ipod with no volume control now :) Aug 01 06:31:33 Linux_Galore: I'm not complaining - just reporting. Aug 01 06:31:50 i.e playing some tunes through the Neo Aug 01 06:31:51 Taco: yeah, the DPI is actually higher an iPhone even though the screen is smaller Aug 01 06:31:56 2op "The screen resolution is just amazing." Aug 01 06:32:10 "A Nokia 1100 or other very basic phone will be much more functional for some time. At the moment it does not work as an even impractical phone. It will get better, especially if you help us! So please think twice if this point in time is really the right time for you to order the GTA01. Remember, we will have a much more complete product at some later point, with better hardware! " Aug 01 06:32:20 Taco: here here....I love watching it boot up...the res is awesome Aug 01 06:32:25 from http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Developer_preview and they can't meet demand ;-) Aug 01 06:32:59 s/an/than a/ Aug 01 06:32:59 Linux_Galore_ meant: Taco: yeah, the DPI is actually higher than a iPhone even though the screen is smaller Aug 01 06:33:22 I've started getting my application coded, which has nothing to do with phoning, so I'll be happy with my '01 even if it never makes a call. Aug 01 06:34:16 Taco: give it a few weeks and things should start moving on the code side Aug 01 06:34:47 cant wait to see what they bring out next year Aug 01 06:35:51 O2 will have a 3D graphics chip so some of the fancy iPhone like effects should start to creep into the UI Aug 01 06:36:41 How many processors (defined as something that executes some sort of code) will the 02 have? Aug 01 06:37:04 mornin Aug 01 06:38:29 with luck by the time the 04 comes out we may have compiz-mobile working hehe Aug 01 06:39:30 Taco: hmm.. main CPU, GPU, CPU for GSM, WiFi, Bluetooth, so at least 5 Aug 01 06:39:54 USB hub Aug 01 06:40:14 but thats not technically a cpu Aug 01 06:40:17 not sure about bluetooth, but... I think it has its own firmware too -> its own CPU Aug 01 06:41:04 My phone seems to be very close to working - if I load gsmhandset.state, my neo sends audio out to the other phone correctly, but the neo's speaker just puts out a ~1000 Hz tone. Does that problem ring a bell (so to speak) with anyone? Aug 01 06:41:13 USB 1.2 is a bit annoying that why Im waiting for the O2 with wifi Aug 01 06:41:51 Linux_Galore_: USB hub is separate and not 'part' of main CPU? Aug 01 06:42:25 GPS.. I guess that doesn't count as CPU really Aug 01 06:43:25 I'll bet the GPS unit has a processor - that's the firmware they can't distribute yet, right? Aug 01 06:43:31 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973_Hardware#USB_Host Aug 01 06:43:32 I would say a NEO has two cpu's the rest being asic's Aug 01 06:43:44 Taco: that code is running on main CPU Aug 01 06:43:59 Oh, I didn't realize that. Aug 01 06:44:15 if it had its own CPU and flash, then there would be no problem (==same as GSM, WiFi and Bluetooth then) Aug 01 06:44:45 GPS unit does only stuff that need to be done in hardware, a bit like winmodems Aug 01 06:45:04 while GSM, etc.. are 'full modems' Aug 01 06:45:22 I think the GPS does alot of DSP-ish things Aug 01 06:46:58 for some reason an auto-correlation filter pops into my head...could be way off, though Aug 01 06:47:04 sound card is another CPU like stuff in addition to GPS Aug 01 06:47:23 moko-bunny: its massively parallel, something like > 1000 of them Aug 01 06:48:18 aloril: makes sense Aug 01 06:49:12 GPS chip does enough so that no realtime stuff is needed in program running at main CPU Aug 01 06:49:47 anyway, I'm not except on GL Hammerhead Aug 01 06:50:09 hehehe, I want RAIM on my Neo :) Aug 01 06:51:05 FireFox, redirected via X11 over the USB to the neo, is surprisingly usable. Aug 01 06:52:20 anybody tried FreeNX over GPRS yet? Aug 01 06:52:47 aloril, no realtime (hard one) required. But tracking is done in software ~ every 1 second. Aug 01 06:53:28 Dmitry_Platonov: yeah, sounds about what I have heard Aug 01 06:54:39 RAIM should be possible, and DGPS too. Aug 01 06:56:23 sweet, then all I need is to file the TSO with the FAA :D hahahaha Aug 01 06:56:53 (so I can use the Neo for IFR) Aug 01 06:57:45 what TSO, FAA and IFR stands for? Aug 01 06:59:45 the primary thing I know RAIM (Receiver Autonomous Integrity Monitoring) is useful for is when a GPS is used for Instrument navigation in an airplane (IFR Instrument Flight Rules). FAA is the Federal Aviation Administration and a TSO is a Technical Standards Order...essentially paperwok saying it's okay to use a piece of equipment in a certificated airplane. Aug 01 07:00:41 I am kidding, BTW...I don't really want to use the Neo for flying Aug 01 07:16:34 counter Aug 01 07:25:47 morning Aug 01 07:42:03 hi all! Aug 01 07:44:57 Mornin' all Aug 01 08:43:37 hey, what's the best nokia battery to use with openmoko? Aug 01 08:43:46 anybody trid BL-6C? Aug 01 08:46:12 bl-5c is the one which fits Aug 01 08:47:08 hrw: yeah, but bl-6c is a tad bit bigger - it might fit according to wiki, but I'm not sure if anyone has tested it Aug 01 08:47:47 hi! Aug 01 08:47:56 hrm, okay, no matter - these days bl-5c is 970mAh and bl-6c is 1070mAh - not big enough of a difference to care about it Aug 01 08:48:17 my neo just arrived :-) :-) Aug 01 08:48:39 and best off all: i payed NO tax Aug 01 08:52:22 * FuzzyCat stabs Protx Aug 01 08:52:56 dunno why (customs authority told me i have to pay 20% VAT ( (450+120)*1,2 ) but ups driver said there is nothing to pay Aug 01 08:53:38 b1303s: ny neo also arrived and i have also paed no tx; what a day!!! Aug 01 08:53:39 b1303s: Don't be too happy now. You'll get an invoice later via snail mail Aug 01 08:53:42 b1303s, ups says, my is in cologn, and it looks as if i don't have to pay tax too... where do you stay (which country)? Aug 01 08:53:48 * FuzzyCat got hit for tax :( Aug 01 08:54:05 * Dmitry_Platonov yesterday seen kinetic scrolling on Neo. It's showstopper! Aug 01 08:55:01 * xzcvczx hopes that it will slip through customs here without tax being just under the value they bother about Aug 01 08:55:02 is it in svn ? Aug 01 08:55:55 guerby: saw from logs Aug 01 08:55:56 mdt: i´m in austria ,europe Aug 01 08:55:56 counter Aug 01 08:55:56 (last update 2007-07-27 06:54) http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter : Order https://direct.openmoko.com/ ; Delivered prob. 75% in a day 01:31:59 (1.064±1.1 days) (1788;252) Aug 01 08:56:38 though this estimate is for me getting it at that time ;-) Aug 01 08:56:42 * FuzzyCat pokes Dmitry_Platonov Aug 01 08:56:51 TRIsoft: :-( Aug 01 08:57:00 FuzzyCat, seems so. Did not tried myself. openmoko-tooday2 Aug 01 08:57:08 * FuzzyCat looks Aug 01 08:57:25 s/openmoko-tooday2/openmoko-today2/ Aug 01 08:57:25 Dmitry_Platonov meant: FuzzyCat, seems so. Did not tried myself. openmoko-today2 Aug 01 08:57:35 b1303s: dont despair, I eventually got an invoice for my zaurus from DHL, but they obviously lost the original paper work as they valued the zaurus at 100 euro and I only paid VAT on that Aug 01 08:58:58 http://www.angstrom-distribution.org/~koen/neo-scroll.avi Aug 01 09:00:19 XorA: :-) Aug 01 09:00:47 otherwise i counted i have to pay 114 $ if the want it it´s ok ;-) Aug 01 09:02:53 looks good Dmitry_Platonov :) Aug 01 09:08:11 Dmitry_Platanov: where can we find the sources for this app? Aug 01 09:09:31 fgau, It seems to be svn openmoko-today2. Aug 01 09:10:19 just for conformation: there is NO gllin on the phone now --> so idon´t have to search it (i´ll make an total backup anyway) Aug 01 09:26:37 Hi all Aug 01 09:27:06 bye Aug 01 09:27:27 can anyone with an openmoko tell me what it says for the caller id if the caller id is blocked? Aug 01 09:28:39 well with the phone i mean Aug 01 09:29:01 ??? Aug 01 09:29:12 woglinde: have you got a phone? Aug 01 09:29:22 xzcvczx: just look at the code..that is probably fastest Aug 01 09:29:40 I dont belivie that this function is already in Aug 01 09:30:57 I've taken a look at gsmd and haven't seen caller ID blocking in place in there, although I could have missed it... Aug 01 09:31:25 jgm: ah ok Aug 01 09:34:54 * * OM Bug 675 has been created by mangabbs(AT)hotmail.com Aug 01 09:34:56 * * Failed to compile perl (fresh install) Aug 01 09:34:57 * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=675 Aug 01 09:37:37 I've noticed something minor in the kernel patches for the gta02 Aug 01 09:37:43 Where do I send patches? Aug 01 09:37:56 * Dmitry_Platonov is building openmoko via mokomakefile right now Aug 01 09:38:51 speedevil first du bugzilla.openmoko.org Aug 01 09:38:53 SpeedEvil: imho, you should send it to the OM-kernel ml Aug 01 09:39:03 and or the kernellist right Aug 01 09:39:40 Thanks. Aug 01 09:46:53 what was that url for the crappyness of the iphone contract? Aug 01 09:47:24 Hmm. Wikiship down. Aug 01 09:48:40 Back I think. Aug 01 09:49:36 http://directorblue.blogspot.com/2007/07/whats-hidden-in-iphones-fine-print.html Aug 01 09:50:14 FuzzyCat, this one? Aug 01 09:50:59 that's the one, perfect. Thanks Dmitry_Platonov .. Aug 01 09:52:08 first security update for iphone http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=306173 Aug 01 09:53:49 Moreover, the companies now have all gone to full minute billing, full kilobyte billing, so that they can make an extra minute on almost every transaction... Aug 01 09:53:56 technically they make an extra 30s on average Aug 01 09:54:24 technically they're all fucking crooks Aug 01 09:54:47 woa, is that thing for real ? Aug 01 09:54:52 yeah but then again anyone who buys apple stuff deserves it Aug 01 09:55:04 "To ensure that the Wi-Fi Service is not being used fraudulently, AT&T limits your usage of the Wi-Fi Service to 150 uses per month" Aug 01 09:55:05 ROTFL Aug 01 09:55:05 even french operators don't go so far Aug 01 09:55:12 I'm about to setup a build environment. Aug 01 09:55:21 fraudulently? Aug 01 09:55:22 wtf? Aug 01 09:55:22 I'm running an oldish version of slackware. Aug 01 09:55:48 What distribution is best? I note that the OE recommended distribution is Ark linux. Aug 01 09:55:52 SpeedEvil: switch to LFS :-) Aug 01 09:55:52 Is this reasonable? Aug 01 09:55:59 fraudulent=at&t doesnt get money Aug 01 09:56:35 5/day... Aug 01 09:56:41 Are they on crack? Aug 01 09:56:58 I am using Ubuntu, probably more useful as a general-purpose linux Aug 01 09:58:08 i wonder what use means Aug 01 09:58:10 SpeedEvil, I'd vote for gentoo Aug 01 09:58:25 knowing the telcos, it's probably 150 tcp connections ;) Aug 01 09:59:37 SpeedEvil: do you come from windows? Aug 01 10:00:03 (Apparently that WiFi limit counts for AT&T's or some of their partner's access points, not any old access point you might connect to. So it's not as bad as it seems, merely evil as usual.) Aug 01 10:00:06 (Intel(R) Xeon(R) CPU 5160 @ 3.00GHz) X 2 = 4 cores. I like to build on this machine. Aug 01 10:00:19 buz: Depends what you mean. Aug 01 10:00:35 I started on 95, before I switched to linux. Aug 01 10:00:46 so you already run win? Aug 01 10:00:54 sorry linux Aug 01 10:00:58 yes. Aug 01 10:01:06 why can't you use that then? Aug 01 10:01:07 Slackware - couple of years old. Aug 01 10:01:36 Because I really don't want to screw with build process errors, ideally I want to hit 'go' and have it simply work. Aug 01 10:01:54 there's a vmware image somewhere... Aug 01 10:02:02 SpeedEvil: hitting 'go' and having work is utopia Aug 01 10:02:12 Where do I download utopia? :) Aug 01 10:02:13 Ubuntu is probably the most popular so the one you're most likely to get help with (although everyone has their favourite). Aug 01 10:02:17 SpeedEvil: microsoft has been trying to sell that crap for years Aug 01 10:02:19 or even there;s a chroot env too Aug 01 10:02:29 SpeedEvil: lol :-) Aug 01 10:02:33 ubuntu sucks for kernel upgrades/sources Aug 01 10:02:35 yeah, I got the mokomakefile instructions working quite painlessly with ubu Aug 01 10:03:11 they'll release a new kernel update, and then you have to wait a week for the sources... Aug 01 10:03:20 FuzzyCat: it does? Seems fine to me. That said I'm not compiling my own kernel Aug 01 10:03:21 jgm: ubuntu is popular, but it is not the best 'dev' environment. They, as debian do, mess up with the libs names. Aug 01 10:03:29 whcih is painful since vmware acerhk etc all need tecompiling Aug 01 10:03:34 jgm: although I do like ubuntu a lot for desktop use Aug 01 10:03:55 jgm, I guess you wont experience that then :) Aug 01 10:04:05 Okay, so let's just say that I'm using Ubuntu, running mokomakefile and developing my own apps and it works for me. YMMV Aug 01 10:05:37 ubuntu 7.04 reasonable? Aug 01 10:05:48 SpeedEvil: works good Aug 01 10:05:49 SpeedEvil, mokomakefile builds almost everything you will need. Pre-requestities, I think, is subversion, monotone & native toolchain Aug 01 10:07:14 no svn, monotone Aug 01 10:07:28 SpeedEvil: yes SVN, and compiled with SSL option Aug 01 10:07:43 iirc ubuntu doesn't install sshd either... Aug 01 10:07:44 SpeedEvil: otherwise one of the package fails to download Aug 01 10:08:08 FuzzyCat: which makes sense on a desktop os, mostl Aug 01 10:08:09 y Aug 01 10:08:28 Anyway, got other stuff to do, can just leave ubuntu to download. Aug 01 10:09:25 hmm, now that I think of it, I don't recall seing SVN+SSL requirement in the wiki... Aug 01 10:09:40 buz: yeah, for a user ;) Aug 01 10:09:57 and for everyone else, apt-get is easy enough Aug 01 10:10:18 its not like it's forcing you to manually generate ssh keys or anything Aug 01 10:10:33 yeah, complaining on ubuntu's usability is a joke... especialy for an experienced user :-) Aug 01 10:11:11 besides, i think it's good practice not to have any daemons running on public interfaces by default Aug 01 10:11:46 well most people are behind nat.. Aug 01 10:12:01 but yeah.. you don't need it, don;t run it Aug 01 10:12:27 people might be behind nat at home, much less so when using wifi some place else Aug 01 10:12:42 but this is a desktop... not a laptop Aug 01 10:12:52 unless you carry your desktop about Aug 01 10:13:03 my laptop is my desktop these days Aug 01 10:13:12 just ordered a new one ;) Aug 01 10:13:23 what sort? Aug 01 10:13:44 latitude d830, only machine that would offer the specs i wanted Aug 01 10:13:53 mine has an issue with the wifi... Aug 01 10:14:14 if i turn on bluetooth on my phone, it kills my wifi for 10 seconds Aug 01 10:15:46 FuzzyCat: how did you time that ? Aug 01 10:16:28 mentally Aug 01 10:17:19 FuzzyCat: hmm, wait, you have wifi on your neo ?? Aug 01 10:21:11 OMG - he found out - now you have to kill him. Aug 01 10:23:02 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Neo1973_OpenOCD]] [[Hardware_Developer]] [[Connecting_Neo1973_with_Debug_Board_v2]] [[P1_Owners]] [[Debug_Board]] [[User:Gadfly/Phase1_Specs]] [[Neo1973_Debug_Board_v3]] [[Hardware_Developer/es]] [[Hardware/de]] [[Hardware_Developer/zh_cn]] and other changes Aug 01 10:25:15 Will the Neo charge the Nokia BL-5C battery? Aug 01 10:25:47 Markinoko, no, on my SE P910i Aug 01 10:26:30 FuzzyCat: oh, ok, I was lost for a second :-) Aug 01 10:31:50 is there a list of the order that stuff gets compiled so i can work out how many hours i have left til its done? Aug 01 10:36:13 Does anybody know why bitbake fetches svn sources via http:// even if proto=https specified in SRC_URI? Aug 01 10:44:24 Dmitry_Platonov maybe its overwritten by the url-definition Aug 01 10:46:15 can it be that svn build by mokomakefile does not support ssl? Aug 01 10:47:26 Dmitry_Platonov: mokomake doesn't build svn Aug 01 10:48:00 Dmitry_Platonov: at least not here. I had to build it myself *and* not forget --enable-ssl Aug 01 10:49:08 ok. I found cause. It created directory in sources/svn and did update instead of checkout Aug 01 10:49:48 openmoko: 03chris * r2594 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-today2/ (ChangeLog src/today-task-manager.c): Send a WM delete event instead of destroying windows, fix raise app Aug 01 10:53:04 when I run bitbake -g openmoko-devel-image, why are there only alldepends.dot and depends.dot? I cannot find rdepends.dot Aug 01 10:53:50 diff alldepends.dot and depends.dot Ill bet Aug 01 10:55:20 depends.do is small while alldepends.dot is large Aug 01 11:09:02 (script) planet: Marcin "hrw" Juszkiewicz: Poky Linux 3.0 released http://blog.haerwu.biz/2007/08/01/poky-linux-30-released/ Aug 01 11:09:50 hi Aug 01 11:09:58 ho Aug 01 11:11:28 hi Aug 01 11:16:45 openmoko: 03njp * r2595 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-dialer2/ (ChangeLog src/moko-dialer.c): More debugging statements Aug 01 11:25:08 Hmm, the Neo's built-in speakers are surprisingly good. Not good, of course, at that size, but surprisingly. Aug 01 11:26:13 02 loses a speaker Aug 01 11:32:03 Hi! I'm new here... I have some questions about the translations: can I contribute or this thing don't matter now, in the development phase ? Aug 01 11:32:03 adrian3: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (and also SH1_FAQ, Neo1973, Developer_preview and Neo1973_Hardware#GTA01Bv4 pages) (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) Aug 01 11:33:38 I think, wiki translation is of greater priority right now Aug 01 11:34:41 since there are far more wiki readers then neo owners ^_^ Aug 01 11:35:56 ok, thanks for the advice Aug 01 11:36:31 openmoko: 03njp * r2596 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-dialer2/ (ChangeLog src/moko-dialer.c): Aug 01 11:36:31 openmoko: 2007-08-01 Neil J. Patel Aug 01 11:36:31 openmoko: * src/moko-dialer.c: (moko_dialer_init): Aug 01 11:36:31 openmoko: Init some variables properly. Aug 01 11:44:06 Dmitry_Platonov, can you tell me how one can start translating? Aug 01 11:44:29 how do you send DTMF tones with openmoko-dialer? Aug 01 11:44:31 kayky, translation what? wiki? Aug 01 11:44:47 s/kayky/kuyky/ Aug 01 11:44:47 Dmitry_Platonov meant: kuyky, translation what? wiki? Aug 01 11:45:02 well... anything :P Aug 01 11:45:22 whatever i can help with Aug 01 11:46:29 go to http://wiki.openmoko.com and strart translating/correcting pages that need translation Aug 01 11:46:41 s/com/org/ ? Aug 01 11:46:53 Right, Elrond Aug 01 11:47:08 http://wiki.openmoko.org is it. Aug 01 11:49:02 SpeedEvil - Any news on the fitting? Aug 01 11:49:41 I got halfway then I got distracted by a shiny thing. Aug 01 11:49:56 openmoko: 03chris * r2597 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-today2/ (5 files in 3 dirs): Implement application searching in the launcher Aug 01 11:49:57 On the rest of it now. Aug 01 11:50:26 (I found the kernel source patches had lots of fixmes, which I can fix) Aug 01 11:51:04 "shiny thing"? Aug 01 11:52:36 SpeedEvil: I'll probably dig out the scope today. If you need anything that is not on the wiki page, post it in this channel, addressed to me. I'll know Aug 01 11:52:51 Wave shiny thing in front of babies, and they will be distracted. Aug 01 11:53:03 the destroyer of concentration, "oooh, shiny" Aug 01 11:54:13 what about asm/page.h error in perl-native? how to fix? Aug 01 11:55:50 SpeedEvil - I meant: Which shiny thing? ;-) Aug 01 11:57:52 still works for me Aug 01 12:01:54 Elrond: the timestamps on the decode trace - what do they mean? Aug 01 12:04:57 hi @ all Aug 01 12:06:31 new videos from mokoninja :D => http://youtube.com/user/mokoNinja Aug 01 12:06:41 * SpeedEvil can't watch them. Aug 01 12:06:46 Flash is crashing for me. Aug 01 12:06:52 And mplayer doesn't want to know. Aug 01 12:07:06 I have some problems cross compilling an X11 Applikation. compiler cant find the X11/Xlib.h Aug 01 12:07:26 SpeedEvil: youtube-dl Aug 01 12:07:32 and then xine or mplayer on the file directly Aug 01 12:07:33 So where are the arm libraries of X11? Aug 01 12:08:21 Ganneff: mplayer bombs out on the file. Aug 01 12:08:38 It used to work. Aug 01 12:08:45 SpeedEvil - The timestamps are from the strace. So that's "time on the host". Not necassrily in sync with any known timezone. ;-) Aug 01 12:08:51 should make some bug reports, but tired Aug 01 12:09:12 Oh - right. so NMEA will start some time after the beginning - 60s? Aug 01 12:09:22 what's the offset? Aug 01 12:09:38 I haven't found the offset yet. Aug 01 12:09:49 When does the first NMEA output happen in the strace Aug 01 12:09:51 Do you have the strace at hand? Aug 01 12:10:01 no - my connection is slow ATM Aug 01 12:10:55 SpeedEvil, if you looking at coldstart traces - indeed, there is some lag. gllin have to get ephemeris Aug 01 12:11:02 Ahh, I can log into ltg and check the strace there. Aug 01 12:11:06 Who is the guy in the video they call the doctor? Aug 01 12:11:30 Actually - if the clock was set - I can ignore the whole hour Aug 01 12:12:11 07:44:44.942950 write(1, "$GPGSA,A,3,10,13,25,28,,,,,,,,,1"..., 49) = 49 Aug 01 12:12:20 Ok, thanks. Aug 01 12:12:33 07:44:44.880737 write(1, "$GPGGA,145521.62,5226.163272,N,0"..., 90) = 90 Aug 01 12:12:40 07:44:44.895470 write(1, "$GPRMC,145521.62,A,5226.163272,N"..., 75) = 75 Aug 01 12:12:46 Right - that's fine. Aug 01 12:14:47 SpeedEvil: thats what i get in dfu-util while neo is in uboot menu.. Found Runtime: [0x1457:0x5119] devnum=0, cfg=0, intf=2, alt=0, name="UNDEFINED" .. wanted to put the device in dfu mode but when i select 'set console to usb' in the uboot.. the screen slides out and returns to uboot screen. any idea? Aug 01 12:15:07 None. Aug 01 12:16:07 its the uboot that shipped with it? isnt it supposed to work? any tricks to get the device in dfu mode? Aug 01 12:17:23 I've never actually booted a neo. Aug 01 12:17:34 mil__ - Just don't care. Just start using dfu. It switches to the mode on its own. Aug 01 12:17:55 mil__ - the screen does return to uboot screen. You have to do the dfu-util very quickly after switching Aug 01 12:18:19 mil__ - DFU has different modes. "Found runtime" means, that DFU is available and you can go ahead and use it. Aug 01 12:18:34 openmoko - You have a minute time, I think. Aug 01 12:19:17 thanks alot. dont want fresh hardware bricks in my hands ;) Aug 01 12:19:31 mil__ - Just don't try to update u-boot. Aug 01 12:20:03 mil__ - Take a look at: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Flashing_openmoko Aug 01 12:20:03 oops, why am I openmoko? sorry about that. I am not openmoko :) Aug 01 12:21:08 you only want a thousand geeks tinkering with you Aug 01 12:21:14 you perv Aug 01 12:22:13 <-- heads away for work. Aug 01 12:23:59 anyone has an idea where to find the arm compiled X11 libraries? Aug 01 12:24:02 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Main_Page/pt]] [[Main_Page/ro]] [[Translation]] [[OpenMoko_compatible_cellphone_providers/ro]] [[Basic_End-user/ro]] [[Create_a_package_from_existing_sources]] [[Getting_Started_with_your_Neo1973/de]] [[Translation_HOWTO]] [[Neo1973_GTA02_Hardware]] Aug 01 12:24:16 openmoko: 03njp * r2598 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-dialer2/ (ChangeLog src/moko-dialer.c): Aug 01 12:24:16 openmoko: 2007-08-01 Neil J. Patel Aug 01 12:24:16 openmoko: * src/moko-dialer.c: (on_pin_requested), Aug 01 12:24:16 openmoko: (on_call_progress_changed), (register_network_cb): Aug 01 12:24:16 openmoko: More debugging. Aug 01 12:24:22 need compiler to tell where to find Aug 01 12:28:19 strange Aug 01 12:33:32 I added some notes to http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Talk:Flashing_openmoko to help some flashing concerns Aug 01 12:41:50 ah, build problems. Aug 01 12:42:22 for some reason bitbake can't find openmoko-mainmenu to download the source. Aug 01 12:43:25 oh. I see. the bitbake recipe is wrong, I think. Aug 01 12:47:49 few new video's on youtube http://www.youtube.com/results?search_type=search_videos&search_query=openmoko&search_sort=video_date_uploaded&search_category=0&search=Search&v= Aug 01 12:50:28 hmm poky looks nice http://www.pokylinux.org/images/sato/web-1.pn Aug 01 12:55:25 Elrond: I think -340 is closer than -320 - there are moderate systematic errors. I think in large part due to the fact that I'm back-propagating the orbit from now, back to March. Aug 01 12:58:30 Elrond: and there are fairly large errors - I think due to noise. Aug 01 13:02:45 SpeedEvil, are you fitting doppler? Aug 01 13:03:08 Dmitry_Platonov: yes. Aug 01 13:04:34 The data looks quite noisy - a nice long clean trace would be good. Of >12h. Aug 01 13:04:37 On the plus side. Aug 01 13:05:04 All the observable satellites are within 8m/s or so of the predicted positions over the couple of hours of the trace. Aug 01 13:05:15 And usually closer. Aug 01 13:07:12 anyway, doppler is of little use during normal operation. Aug 01 13:07:26 No, not directly. Aug 01 13:07:46 I'm trying to go from that to other signal parameters. Aug 01 13:08:00 Or hoping to. Aug 01 13:08:39 I written in mailing list how, IMHO, pseudorange is computed Aug 01 13:09:05 not exactly pseudorange, but code delay Aug 01 13:09:29 For example, if I can tell what the real doppler is precisely, what the observed doppler setting is, then I know the code delay changes. Aug 01 13:09:33 which gives least significant part of pseudorange Aug 01 13:09:56 When? Aug 01 13:11:20 http://lists.linuxtogo.org/pipermail/sphyrna-devel/2007-July/000002.html Aug 01 13:11:36 it was not too verbation Aug 01 13:11:46 s/verbation/verbatim/ Aug 01 13:11:46 Dmitry_Platonov meant: it was not too verbatim Aug 01 13:12:10 verbose Aug 01 13:12:17 verbatim is 'as it was written' Aug 01 13:12:30 verbose is 'lots of words' Aug 01 13:12:51 * Dmitry_Platonov thanks SpeedEvil Aug 01 13:12:52 * SpeedEvil would like to learn other languages. Aug 01 13:13:00 But just speaks english and gibberish. Aug 01 13:13:03 my english is somewhat broken 8) Aug 01 13:13:37 It's significantly better than my russian :) Aug 01 13:13:50 and see my next message for small correction Aug 01 13:13:51 Da, Nyet, and Vodka is about my limit. Aug 01 13:14:54 * ewon speaks English, bad French, and worse Irish Aug 01 13:15:41 I'm unsure if the position accuracy can be gotten high enough simply by averaging the outputs of the correlators. Aug 01 13:15:49 Or if some other step is required. Aug 01 13:18:51 averaging? for what? Aug 01 13:20:19 To go from the per-1Khz code-phase to a psuedorange accurate to 3ns or so. Aug 01 13:20:40 code-phase error output Aug 01 13:22:32 hm. not quite understand. Why 1Khz? It seems hammerhead operates on 1Hz or like basis. The only thing which needs 1Khz is PLL IMHO Aug 01 13:22:59 There has to be something internally that bit-slices the incoming signal. Aug 01 13:23:16 To generate the navigation bits Aug 01 13:23:54 oh, navigation bits. Aug 01 13:24:41 For this, you need to align the sample time to the real-code-phase - this will be done just by changing the doppler. Then internally it'll find the highest bin of the correlator and either record a list of 20 of these per navigation bit - 1000/s, or do the synchronisation and extraction in hardware. Aug 01 13:25:48 I think syncronisation is software, tracking and extraction - hardware. Aug 01 13:25:59 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Hammerhead/Integrators Aug 01 13:26:10 I think that's probable too. Aug 01 13:26:43 I am trying om-2007.2 (plain org.oe.dev) and get this when running bitbake : bitbake classpath Aug 01 13:26:43 NOTE: Invalid cache found, rebuilding... Aug 01 13:26:43 ERROR: no files to build Aug 01 13:26:45 I'd like first to get working coldstart which tracks doppler/code delay. Aug 01 13:27:04 then there is a python stacktrace with: "ValueError: substring not found" at the end Aug 01 13:27:14 Yeah - we don't even need to know how to extract the bits for a most hyper-basic solution. Aug 01 13:27:21 Transit reborn. Aug 01 13:27:22 this is bitbake 1.8.6 and python 2.4.4 (debian lenny) Aug 01 13:27:55 * SpeedEvil clicks again on the UPS tracking site. Aug 01 13:28:11 symbol rater is not 1Khz, it "code repeating" rate. symbol rate is 100 Hz Aug 01 13:28:20 50Hz Aug 01 13:28:48 my local.conf is the same as for om-2007 (contains: MACHINE = "fic-gta01" DISTRO = "openmoko" ) Aug 01 13:29:08 no. there are 50 bits/second, but transition can occur every 1/100 second. It's enconding Aug 01 13:30:52 I thought the navigation message was directly modulated at a rate of 50 bits/second onto the 1Khz PRN sighal. Aug 01 13:31:23 Oh - right - yes, which can of course happen at 100Hz - if you count both edges. Aug 01 13:31:24 ok found it. seems like defining BBFILES is mandatory now Aug 01 13:32:14 But the datarate is 50bits/second, and it's not modulated more complexly. Aug 01 13:33:17 maybe I'm mistaken GLONASS encoding with GPS. I'll look further. Aug 01 13:37:17 Picture of encoding scheme - m] has joined Aug 01 13:37:18 #nethack-offtopic Aug 01 13:37:20 err Aug 01 13:37:34 Picture of encoding scheme - http://www.colorado.edu/geography/gcraft/notes/gps/gif/signals.gif Aug 01 13:43:04 SpeedEvil, can you fit REG 0b vs range. I believe when we track, 0b gives us code delay (least significant part of pseudorange) Aug 01 13:46:55 * * OM Bug 676 has been created by  Aug 01 13:46:56 * * dfu-upload on GTA02v1 causes data corruption Aug 01 13:46:57 * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=676 Aug 01 13:47:53 Speedevil, another consideration: when doing "fine" code/doppler adjustment, integrator spacing is not necessary 1 bin. Aug 01 13:49:42 what package builds the image for OM-2007.2? Aug 01 13:50:31 also, during "coarse" adjustment, I believe spacing is 1/2 bin, not 1 bin. Integrator output might be someting like I^2 + Q^2 Aug 01 13:53:16 I would expect it to be I and Q bins Aug 01 13:53:25 1023*2 bins Aug 01 13:54:15 added some initial build instructions for om-2007.2: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/OpenMoko2007.2#How_to_build Aug 01 13:54:17 I can try - not at the moment - in a bit though. Aug 01 13:55:18 The signal will appear in two adjacent bins. This gives you the precise phase - well, apart from noise - not just to the nearest bin. Aug 01 13:55:53 REG 23 results seems too "symmetric" to be I & Q Aug 01 13:57:22 Are there usually two bins with some energy in? Aug 01 13:57:56 no. It looks for me like "peak" with "shoulders". Something bell-shaped Aug 01 13:58:22 Hmm. It's possible that may be a second level integrator. Aug 01 13:59:12 Which is integrating the ouput of the first, at 1Khz, to generate good time resolution. Aug 01 13:59:36 Ok. I must go and do some Go teaching/tutoring :) Aug 01 14:07:49 http://cgi.ebay.ie/Bluetooth-GPS-Watch-Heart-rate-sensor-OLED-display-NEW_W0QQitemZ110153091799QQihZ001QQcategoryZ31387QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD2VQQcmdZViewItem Aug 01 14:09:19 is momomakefile building OM2007.2 ? Aug 01 14:09:21 now Aug 01 14:19:28 ewon: now - if it did bluetooth to the OLED display that would be really handy. Aug 01 14:19:55 pity there are no measurements of the thing Aug 01 14:20:02 probably like the old casio gps watch Aug 01 14:20:06 e.g. freakin gigantic Aug 01 14:20:26 I'm sure there must be electronics modelling agencies. Aug 01 14:20:27 oh, wait Aug 01 14:20:29 69 X55X23.5(mm) Weight 75g Aug 01 14:20:36 People with freakishly large or small hands. Aug 01 14:20:52 it's nearly a bloody inch thick. Aug 01 14:20:55 that's damn near 1/2 the neo weight. Aug 01 14:20:59 lol Aug 01 14:23:42 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Hardware:Neo1973:Alternate_Cases:Camera]] [[User:Das_nl]] [[OpenMoko2007.2]] [[Hardware:AGPS]] [[Wish_List]] [[Hammerhead/Integrators]] [[User:Kuyky]] [[Translation]] [[Template:Languages]] [[Main_Page/pt]] [[MokoMakefile]] [[Neo1973/de]] and other changes Aug 01 14:43:15 Bye all Aug 01 14:51:34 SpeedEvil - *ping* Aug 01 15:06:51 ong Aug 01 15:06:58 s/o/po/ Aug 01 15:06:58 SpeedEvil meant: pong Aug 01 15:19:06 after the neo run out of power - how long do I have to charge until it can be turned on again? Aug 01 15:19:44 mm, "in transit for delivery", should I go home and wait for the UPS guy? *ponders* Aug 01 15:20:39 Mine is in Germany, whoop whoop. Aug 01 15:20:50 Only a few country borders left, now Aug 01 15:21:09 * mwester notes the striking similarity between the games played with a laser pointer and a cat, and the UPS tracking information.... Aug 01 15:24:50 ok, its 10 minutes :) Aug 01 15:26:34 got a cpufreq kernel but i lose access to the flash - it's definitely not setting everything up yet Aug 01 15:27:49 gonna try to make it work tonight :) Aug 01 15:30:00 happycube, your kernel supports jffs2? Aug 01 15:30:26 happycube: when you vary freq? Aug 01 15:30:31 happycube: or anytime? Aug 01 15:31:29 daxxar: mine is hopefully arriving in my country within the next couple of hhours Aug 01 15:31:51 unfortunately its 3:30am in the morning so wont be delivered til tomrorow Aug 01 15:32:35 * SpeedEvil ponders. Aug 01 15:32:46 * SpeedEvil just thought of an evil thing. Aug 01 15:32:51 bash.ko Aug 01 15:32:51 happycube: there's no cpufreq support for s3c24xx in the vanilla kernel. I really wonder how you managed to get it :) Aug 01 15:33:03 IIRC happycube is playing. Aug 01 15:33:15 bash.ko, and bashscript.ko Aug 01 15:33:25 builtin to kernel optional. Aug 01 15:35:55 putting bash into the kernel? Aug 01 15:36:14 xzcvczx: Hehe, darn. :-) Aug 01 15:37:19 Vegar: yes. It was a silly idea. Aug 01 15:37:28 heh Aug 01 15:37:31 You'd need all the other userspace binaries in kernel mode too. ;-P Aug 01 15:37:35 To make it useful. Aug 01 15:37:38 you could write drivers in bash Aug 01 15:37:41 Basically to eliminate the need for a rootfs. Aug 01 15:37:43 Auch Aug 01 15:38:04 busybox.ko Aug 01 15:38:10 Sort of like OpenFirmware - but in bash. Aug 01 15:39:12 Hehe Aug 01 15:40:52 hi ph5 Aug 01 15:41:15 hej woglinde Aug 01 15:42:51 rtp - i found a cpufreq patch and i updated it to 2.6.21 Aug 01 15:42:55 hey all Aug 01 15:43:46 speedevil - check out busybox? that fits pretty nicely in an initrd/initramfs Aug 01 15:44:22 time to work :P Aug 01 15:44:41 happycube: weird. what's the url ? Aug 01 15:46:15 how do I determine whether this openmoko is P0 or P1? Aug 01 15:46:40 gw280: which one? Aug 01 15:46:42 gw280: when did you get it? Aug 01 15:46:44 neo, not moko Aug 01 15:46:48 and if you bought it, it's p1 Aug 01 15:46:55 drath: it's alp's Aug 01 15:47:00 so I'm not sure Aug 01 15:47:12 gw280: look at the sticker gta01bv3 is p0, bv4 is p1 Aug 01 15:47:42 right, it's a P1 Aug 01 15:49:03 happycube: yes - I know. For a while when I had an unreliable hard disk, I had a shell + 'stuff' sitting in a ramfs. Aug 01 15:49:39 this may seem like a silly question, but where's the AUX button? Aug 01 15:50:01 top left Aug 01 15:50:06 IIRC on a black/silver phone it is hidden Aug 01 15:50:13 and looks like an IRDA sensor Aug 01 15:50:27 yes, I see it Aug 01 15:50:27 thanks Aug 01 15:50:28 On the white/orange it's quite visible Aug 01 15:50:31 I thought it was an IrDA port! Aug 01 15:50:34 which, to be clear, it isn't Aug 01 15:51:06 and good riddance to IrDA Aug 01 15:51:14 hey all Aug 01 15:51:27 Nothing wrong with IRDA - if it was possibly done. Aug 01 15:51:32 Lot's of ppl in this channel Aug 01 15:51:34 reasonably done. Aug 01 15:51:37 Indeed. Aug 01 15:51:44 Some of them are bots. Aug 01 15:51:48 k Aug 01 15:51:52 some of them are still awaiting their neos. :) Aug 01 15:51:57 AYE Aug 01 15:51:58 :D Aug 01 15:51:59 around 1000 registered user on the site now Aug 01 15:52:03 * ashnazg raises hand Aug 01 15:52:11 on what site? Aug 01 15:52:17 openmoko.org Aug 01 15:52:22 projects Aug 01 15:52:25 oh Aug 01 15:55:57 whee, phone arrived, attempting to flash Aug 01 15:56:40 Hmh, my usbnet problems were probably the phone going into sleep. At an inappropriate time. Aug 01 15:56:49 Hadaka, have fun mate Aug 01 15:56:54 hm, when I'm in the AT command interpreter (using cu as terminal emulator), how can I stop it? Aug 01 15:57:01 seems to be related to not having gui apps due to crashes and whatnot Aug 01 15:57:08 ctrl-d? Aug 01 15:57:15 doesn't work Aug 01 15:57:20 * ashnazg is so jealous of Hadaka Aug 01 15:57:29 ctrl-c won't, too Aug 01 15:57:37 thomasg: ctrl-\ ? Aug 01 15:57:51 doesn't work Aug 01 15:58:59 thomasg: ssh to another shell, killall cu Aug 01 15:59:23 seems that's the only possibility Aug 01 15:59:39 but there should be another way, shouldn't it? cu still reacts Aug 01 15:59:47 imo, libgsmd-tool -m atcmd is better than cu (and works with ctrl-c) Aug 01 16:00:12 if gsmd works ;) Aug 01 16:00:19 indeed :) Aug 01 16:01:54 rtp - i just googled "cpufreq s3c2410" Aug 01 16:01:55 cu can be terminated with "~." Aug 01 16:02:06 pH5! Aug 01 16:02:11 hej Elrond Aug 01 16:02:36 "aha" Aug 01 16:04:30 hmm Aug 01 16:05:35 SpeedEvil - you saw my query? Aug 01 16:06:23 I just saw ping Aug 01 16:06:26 happycube: thx, found it. fyi, even the maintainer of s3c24xx linux port in not aware of this so if you have troubles, which will probably happen, you'll be on your own Aug 01 16:06:28 oh Aug 01 16:06:40 openmoko: 03laforge * r2599 10/trunk/oe/packages/linux/ (2 files in 2 dirs): Aug 01 16:06:40 openmoko: * add PCF50633 and GLAMO support to make this kernel work on GTA02 Aug 01 16:06:40 openmoko: * bump mokoversion to moko11 Aug 01 16:08:41 rtp - yeah Aug 01 16:08:52 there's a lot to fix ;) Aug 01 16:10:04 yeah, he found the correct cellid :) Aug 01 16:10:11 will see if I get it to dial now Aug 01 16:12:15 k, calling works :) Aug 01 16:12:32 but my nokia doesn't show a "standard" incoming call, it shows a dat.-call Aug 01 16:15:11 hm, I want to have the gentoo-patches for sysVinit on the neo Aug 01 16:15:23 woahh. a gta02 mention. i hope mokoninja comes up with some good video. Aug 01 16:16:25 gsmd tends to crash :) Aug 01 16:16:40 thomasg: scp them Aug 01 16:17:18 would be no prob if I'd get my openmoko buildsystem running :) Aug 01 16:17:31 ah you want to apply them? :) Aug 01 16:17:38 well, I'd test it :) Aug 01 16:18:46 gentoo has a nive advanced sysVinit with parallel bootup (optional), but the /etc/init.d/... status is very useful :) the standard [start|stop|restart] isn't really great Aug 01 16:24:02 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[User_talk:Sean]] [[Trademark_Policy]] [[Advanced_End-user/nl]] [[Talk:Trademark_Policy]] [[Basic_End-user/nl]] [[Flashing_openmoko]] [[Server:AGPS]] [[Hardware:AGPS]] [[P1_Owners]] [[FAQ/fr]] [[User:Gadfly/Phase1_Specs]] Aug 01 16:29:26 so. how do you get a neo1973 to make a phone call? :) Aug 01 16:29:50 i'm getting: Netreg registration denied from libgsmd-tool Aug 01 16:30:05 tried two different sim cards Aug 01 16:30:39 both are old cingular 64k smartcard, but one has a blue back that says 3gs or something Aug 01 16:37:08 http://youtube.com/user/mokoNinja Aug 01 16:37:29 "Sneak Preview! Phone Call" has a new UI. i assume its the "new UI" thats been mentioned here before. Aug 01 16:39:04 openmoko: 03laforge * r2600 10/trunk/oe/packages/linux/linux-gta01/defconfig-2.6.22.1-fic-gta01: Aug 01 16:39:04 openmoko: * enable Glamo3362 framebuffer driver for 2.6.22.1 kernel defconfig Aug 01 16:39:04 openmoko: * bump revision to moko11 Aug 01 16:48:16 how is the merge with OE going on? Aug 01 16:49:34 dcordes fine it seems Aug 01 16:49:55 mickeyl done something Aug 01 16:49:58 don-o, you're right, thats the new UI Aug 01 16:50:07 I was testing it on my brandnew neo yesterday Aug 01 16:50:21 thomasg: cool. Aug 01 16:50:41 well, it's still very basic, and my image wasn't as polished as the one in the video :) Aug 01 16:51:20 Do you guys like working with the automake tools or do you like the bsd style way. (just a makefile)? Aug 01 16:51:22 i am so excited about custom cases. Aug 01 16:52:05 the standardcase is fantastic, looks good and the build quality is far above nokia's Aug 01 16:52:26 so custom cases are fine, but I don't need one, yet Aug 01 16:52:38 i want to place an order but i would like to know if there are units left. Aug 01 16:52:41 the major thing i don't like is the recessed ts Aug 01 16:52:50 makes it hard to touch the edges Aug 01 16:52:53 corners, even Aug 01 16:53:10 wow i hope the phone boots faster than the qemu emulator Aug 01 16:53:21 hardly Aug 01 16:53:35 sysinit isn't exactly good for embedded systems Aug 01 16:53:41 going upstream eventually Aug 01 16:53:46 upstart, even Aug 01 16:53:52 :o Aug 01 16:53:57 a reset button would be nice for phase 1 ;) Aug 01 16:54:19 happycube? Aug 01 16:54:26 ya? Aug 01 16:54:26 hardware or software? Aug 01 16:54:29 hardware Aug 01 16:54:36 mickeyl: my 486 use to boot faster than this Aug 01 16:54:37 than you mean phase2 Aug 01 16:54:37 for when holding down the power button for 5 seconds just dosen't work Aug 01 16:54:42 mickeyl: are you doing development on P2 hardware? Aug 01 16:54:44 p1 is out Aug 01 16:54:47 *would have been nice, then Aug 01 16:54:48 http://www.embeddedarm.com/epc/ts7800-spec-h.htm <--- how do those guys get a bootime < 2 s? Aug 01 16:55:07 happycube ah now I understand you Aug 01 16:55:18 don-o: not yet. i have p2 hardware laying around here, but no time yet. first priority is getting the software for p1 in a reasonable state Aug 01 16:55:19 i'm worried that i'll wear out the battery contacts... might have to bust it open and wire up the debug board for cpufreq testing Aug 01 16:55:29 mickeyl: i see. Aug 01 16:56:30 dando-: well, "boots linux" is probably just the time to launch userland. the Neo1973 does that in 3 seconds as well Aug 01 16:56:57 +g* Aug 01 16:56:57 however from userland to UI takes ages Aug 01 16:57:00 yet Aug 01 16:57:02 udev with shellscripts Aug 01 16:57:12 wont let it be fast Aug 01 16:57:20 mickeyl: thats a shellaccess! no daemon up ! Aug 01 16:57:42 dando *g* Aug 01 16:57:53 init /bin/sh Aug 01 16:58:04 mickeyl: dont i know you from openzaurus? Aug 01 16:58:36 dando-: possible. I mainained OpenZaurus for two years Aug 01 16:58:39 mickeyl: i dont know whether its just my emulator running slowly but are we talking about maybe 4mins to boot Aug 01 16:58:40 maintained, even Aug 01 16:59:05 mickeyl: okay Aug 01 16:59:07 xzcvczx: i get the same boot time on my emulator Aug 01 16:59:16 xzcvczx: 4 might be a bit over the top Aug 01 16:59:35 mickeyl: ah ok it may just be i have make openmoko-devel-image running Aug 01 17:00:01 xzcvczx: it's more like 2 mins 10ish seconds. Aug 01 17:00:03 reason #43 why i like the neo1973 over the iPhone: no "sleep/wake" button needed Aug 01 17:00:33 ok reading over the disassembly instructions - removing the top case is enough to get enough access to the debug port right? Aug 01 17:02:10 i guess starting the x-server takes a lot of time. Aug 01 17:02:13 mickey|dinner - I like sysvinit. And it doesn't really hurt currently. Aug 01 17:04:03 an experience i made with another embedded project. dont start applikation during x-server startup. Aug 01 17:04:52 hehe. Aug 01 17:04:58 the the query of the applikation slows down the startup Aug 01 17:05:59 Ahh, that might be a problem on the neo. ;) Aug 01 17:06:05 * xzcvczx 's emulator is still booting Aug 01 17:06:29 brings about 15 sec Aug 01 17:06:37 boottime Aug 01 17:07:27 dando- Ahh... Aug 01 17:08:01 Anyway. I'm getting home now. Aug 01 17:08:11 But i dont know what startscipt lookes like in OpenMoko Aug 01 17:08:31 funny, this thing feels faster than N770, even in shell - even though the CPU is supposed to be slower, all in all Aug 01 17:08:44 Hi everyone ... Aug 01 17:09:10 N770 ? Aug 01 17:09:14 nokia tablet thing Aug 01 17:09:18 One really silly question ... does anyone know if there are any podcasts focused on openmoko/neo*'s ? Aug 01 17:09:22 oh ok Aug 01 17:09:32 freskog: some stuff on youtube Aug 01 17:10:06 freskog: german podcast with LaF0rge: http://chaosradio.ccc.de/cre042.html Aug 01 17:10:53 http://chaosradio.ccc.de/cre042.html <-- good one Aug 01 17:11:05 but german language Aug 01 17:11:19 up to configuring x11-c-locale.... how much further have i got to go Aug 01 17:11:32 freskog: http://youtube.com/user/mokoNinja Aug 01 17:14:07 hello Aug 01 17:15:02 when I do a call via the ATD command, the reciepient gets no "normal" voicecall, he gets a data-call. why that? Aug 01 17:15:08 thanks all! Aug 01 17:15:19 (to bad many german isn't better :) Aug 01 17:21:21 hey guys, is the microSD access supposed to work flawlessly? Aug 01 17:25:10 mjahas Aug 01 17:25:26 that is bigger than i thought i would be, thats not bad thing i quess Aug 01 17:26:45 since Hadaka asked here as well, some of my microsd problem experiences among other things here: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/device-owners/2007-August/000035.html (I've since resolved the usbnet thing) Aug 01 17:28:58 thomasg: how are you dialing the call? Aug 01 17:29:40 mjr: siis ne resetit? joo, mulla näky samaa Aug 01 17:29:47 hups Aug 01 17:29:57 Writchie, using ATD Aug 01 17:30:15 did you set the call mode with AT+CMOD=0 Aug 01 17:30:19 no Aug 01 17:30:24 thats what I was looking for :) Aug 01 17:30:25 thanks Aug 01 17:30:38 it somehow got in the wrong mode Aug 01 17:30:57 hm, no, it's still the wrong mode Aug 01 17:33:34 hadaka - humm... perhaps the framebuffer access is faster? Aug 01 17:33:47 thomasg: what do ya get from AT+CMOD=? Aug 01 17:34:14 only the standard: RSTR=`OK' Aug 01 17:34:34 I should say that I use haralds libgsm-tool Aug 01 17:34:36 you should be getting a list of supported modes Aug 01 17:34:48 happycube: could be Aug 01 17:35:23 you're not in shell mode but at command passthru right? Aug 01 17:36:06 of coure if you get RSTR='OK' Aug 01 17:36:08 I'm connected over usb_ethernet_emulation and ssh and I use libgsm-tool Aug 01 17:36:15 s/coure/course Aug 01 17:36:41 AT+CMOD=? should returns something like (0-3) Aug 01 17:37:06 have you used this SIM card on voice calls in past? Aug 01 17:38:01 +CME ERROR: 32' == Network not allowed, emergency calls only Aug 01 17:38:24 is this the same error everyone with AT&T 3G sim cards are seeing? Aug 01 17:38:39 I think that's it. Aug 01 17:38:56 dang...my sim cards are old cingular Aug 01 17:39:08 they aren't even 3G Aug 01 17:39:16 at least the plastic doesn't say it Aug 01 17:41:24 f'LaF0rge, about the tslib, the horizontal values are good Aug 01 17:41:46 but there is a *lot* of noise on the vertical value Aug 01 17:43:48 can we put the CMS and CME error codes on the wiki? Aug 01 17:44:02 or is there some copyright issues with it Aug 01 17:45:09 it would be nice to have a table with the code and description without having to google it every time Aug 01 17:46:05 'error codes'... doesn't that imply interface? Aug 01 17:48:15 maybe Aug 01 17:53:55 if a company sponsors the Neo1973, can we put the company logo in the project (GPLed) page, something like "Sponsored by yadda" in projects.openmoko.org? Aug 01 17:54:55 Writchie, yes, AT+CMOD returns (0-3) Aug 01 17:55:12 Writchie, and yes, I used the sim-card for years Aug 01 17:55:25 then do AT+CMOD=0 Aug 01 17:55:33 at moment I have call-forwarding for the card activted, but this shouldn't matter for calling out Aug 01 17:55:35 then AT+CMOD? Aug 01 17:56:05 call-forwarded should not matter Aug 01 17:56:25 AT+CMOD? returns: +CMOD: 0 Aug 01 17:56:46 then next ATDT command should originate a voice only call Aug 01 17:57:26 even ATDT does a data call Aug 01 17:57:52 how are you determining that it is a data call? Aug 01 17:58:15 its a serviceprovider number on the reciepients display, and the nokia says: data call Aug 01 17:58:40 strange Aug 01 17:59:06 is the number you are dialing perhaps configured for data only Aug 01 17:59:10 ok, have no time now, will take a look at this later. thanks for your help, I may come back to you again :) Aug 01 17:59:17 ok Aug 01 17:59:19 no, it isn't Aug 01 18:02:20 AT+CIMI returns error Aug 01 18:03:05 CME Error 13: sim failure Aug 01 18:06:24 thomasg, add a ; after the dail command Aug 01 18:07:40 is there a wiki page for SIM card issues? Aug 01 18:07:58 the ml has a thread, but it would be good to capture the info Aug 01 18:08:18 there is some weirdness going on with my neo Aug 01 18:08:39 Does anyone here use any osciliscopes? Aug 01 18:09:07 jaebird: bug #666 Aug 01 18:09:53 I emailed Harald 2 days ago (of course he already know about it cause hes the man) but he told me that there is nothing he can do and TI must look into it Aug 01 18:10:25 lol. I hope at&t didn't bribe TI to mess it up (conspiracy theory) Aug 01 18:10:30 Appropriate bug number, given the provider in question... Aug 01 18:11:17 * mwester is a prisoner of AT&T as well. Aug 01 18:11:47 I'm still disipointed form the FCC auction rules Aug 01 18:12:00 Thats MY spectrum as a citizen of the US Aug 01 18:12:18 Yep. And given away in quite the wrong manner. Aug 01 18:12:26 Are you american? Aug 01 18:12:28 Does anyone know how to convince bitbake to pull files from svn rather than trying to get them from a tarball? Aug 01 18:12:46 mwester: If you are thats YOUR spectrum Aug 01 18:12:49 'lo Aug 01 18:12:57 edit the .bb file in the recipe, jgm Aug 01 18:13:08 calamous1_: Yes, I have an osciliscope in my lab at home Aug 01 18:13:19 noiddd: Does it interface with your comp? Aug 01 18:13:26 There should be a SRC_URI or similar that specifies where to get the files. Aug 01 18:13:40 noiddd: I want to buy a scope but I'm not sure what to get. I want a reasonable one but I don't want to spend a fortune Aug 01 18:13:51 Yep so at current it looks like this: SRC_URI = "svn://svn.projects.openmoko.org/svnroot/extd;module=trunk;proto=http" Aug 01 18:13:54 No, I have an old HP scope Aug 01 18:13:57 noiddd: I would be doing mostly digital stuff. I need to moniter SPI and stuff Aug 01 18:13:58 EBay special ;_) Aug 01 18:14:07 ah, then i'm not the right person to ask. Aug 01 18:14:11 But bitbake is still attempting to do a package-based download from the looks of things Aug 01 18:14:25 Morg might know - lemme find morg for you Aug 01 18:14:32 * calamous1_ is sad about the FCC auction rules Aug 01 18:14:34 cool ty Aug 01 18:22:44 added my comments to bug#666 Aug 01 18:23:04 i wonder how long ti will take to answer fic and provide a firmware update for it Aug 01 18:24:19 are we sure its not sim safe or whatever its called? Aug 01 18:24:23 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Hear_Me_FIC]] [[Unresolved_Hardware_Questions]] [[OpenMoko_under_QEMU]] Aug 01 18:24:51 I'd imagine - possibly - if it's really a common Calypso issue, that TI would want to get it patched quite fast. Aug 01 18:25:07 i'd hope so Aug 01 18:25:08 methinks speedevil is correct Aug 01 18:25:49 SpeedEvil, *nod* Aug 01 18:26:35 i do remember one of my old sonyericison phones having trouble with the 64Ksmartchip sim Aug 01 18:26:47 so maybe they added something like that as early as that Aug 01 18:26:59 FYI: second batch containing orange Neo's is bound to arrive within 24 hrs in the US. Aug 01 18:27:17 Kensan: ooh Aug 01 18:27:26 Kensan: now I just need them shipped to the eu ;) Aug 01 18:27:31 Kensan: is this simply the next 500 of the first production run? Aug 01 18:27:53 Kensan: When can I tell someone they can buy one, and it'll ship soon? Aug 01 18:28:13 SpeedEvil: meh, ime hardware vendors are very bad at speedy updates Aug 01 18:28:22 SpeedEvil: it seems so. It's the "second batch" referencend in this mail: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2007-July/007765.html Aug 01 18:28:49 Kensan: how did you acquire this information? Aug 01 18:29:35 LarstiQ: true Aug 01 18:29:54 LarstiQ: I inquired about the status of my order (#1872) and the email I got said, that "my phone" would arrive at the shipping port in the US within 24 hrs. Aug 01 18:30:24 Kensan: cool Aug 01 18:32:33 nice Aug 01 18:32:55 btw, I got an answer mail within 18 mins. Hope they speed up the rest of the process too :) Aug 01 18:37:08 mokobot: stats Aug 01 18:37:08 Since Wed Aug 1 18:36:44 2007, there have been 0 modifications, 0 questions, 0 dunnos, 0 morons and 0 commands. I have been awake for 30s this session, and currently reference 31 factoids. I'm using about 48844 kB of memory. With 0 active forks. Process time user/system 0.38/0.03 child 0/0 Aug 01 18:37:16 sheeeeeet t-mobile raised their data plan to $30/month Aug 01 18:37:29 no tmobile in my area :-( Aug 01 18:37:56 Writchie: dont complain..... we pay $8USD per meg of download here Aug 01 18:38:18 well that's pretty insane Aug 01 18:38:21 Where ar eyou X? Aug 01 18:38:35 SpeedEvil: nz Aug 01 18:38:40 ow Aug 01 18:38:43 yeah Aug 01 18:39:06 No 'data plan's? Aug 01 18:39:11 hmh, an irc friend lives there, she's got a hsdpa plan that didn't sound _that_ bad... Aug 01 18:40:06 SpeedEvil: yeah but they are a fair bit anyway Aug 01 18:42:17 dammit i wish nz customs would get off their doughnut ridden butts and process this shipment already Aug 01 18:42:38 Here its seems to work out at around $2/day. Aug 01 18:42:57 Either for the cheapest monthly plan, or PAYG, bought one day at a time. Aug 01 18:43:28 (UK) Aug 01 18:43:45 SpeedEvil: is that unlimited usage? Aug 01 18:43:45 With a 1G/40M cap that is Aug 01 18:43:58 yeah our monthly caps are like 200mb Aug 01 18:44:00 if that Aug 01 18:44:07 Nope, but 30M/day isn't _too_ bad. Aug 01 18:44:31 (Again, for comparison, 10 euros per month, bw cap of 128k, non-issue with gprs) Aug 01 18:44:44 Indeed. Aug 01 18:45:00 I do hear that nowadays you can get a 384k bw cap for that, but doesn't matter to me Aug 01 18:45:18 and yeah, 30M per day is reasonable Aug 01 18:45:20 * SpeedEvil goes to mow lawn. Aug 01 18:45:30 sweden has "unlimited" plans now, for decent prices. Im glad. I will have to sign up soon, theyre complaining thats it too cheap and theyre going to have to build more capacity soon ... and have to up the prices Aug 01 18:45:40 * Stephmw is still on the lookout for reasonable hosting that includes Java support.. Aug 01 18:46:00 A friend of mine and her husband are truck drivers. They do driving shifts. One drives, the other plays Everquest as they drive across the country. Aug 01 18:46:08 SpeedEvil: for 3gig cap over a month is $59.95USD per month Aug 01 18:46:16 They're using Verizon (so cdma) Aug 01 18:46:17 noiddd: heh Aug 01 18:46:29 thats about $65 pcm I think for unlimited Aug 01 18:46:42 cheapest plans are ~11euro a month, but thats only for 12 monts, then its more like 22 euro Aug 01 18:47:52 Stephmw: java is client dependent, not server dependent Aug 01 18:48:09 xzcvczx: Java on the server, for you know... server apps :) Aug 01 18:48:19 jsp ftw Aug 01 18:48:20 well thats not hava Aug 01 18:48:22 java Aug 01 18:48:30 since when? Aug 01 18:48:33 * Stephmw boggles Aug 01 18:48:34 its jsp Aug 01 18:48:41 jsp is still java Aug 01 18:48:52 and jsp isn't the end all of java dev on a server Aug 01 18:48:59 jsp is all kinds of java Aug 01 18:49:17 what do 99% of people talk about when they use java in context of web Aug 01 18:49:18 java died on the client side in 1999 Aug 01 18:49:28 xzcvczx: java application servers. Aug 01 18:49:31 xzcvczx: J2EE these days, doesn't involve jsp Aug 01 18:49:44 don-o: agreed, for desktops anyway Aug 01 18:49:54 * xzcvczx cant be bothered going any further in this its 7am and he hasnt slept.... come on phone Aug 01 18:49:59 Shoragan, thank you!!!!! Aug 01 18:50:13 xzcvczx: go to bed! :) Aug 01 18:50:14 the ; helps :) Aug 01 18:50:43 anyone looked at the first 4 bytes of a java class file? kind of funny. Aug 01 18:50:45 Stephmw: then i will miss my phone arriving and will go awol Aug 01 18:51:04 don-o: why what is it? Aug 01 18:51:22 CAFEBABE Aug 01 18:51:28 ah lol Aug 01 18:51:38 the ppc one is pretty funny as well Aug 01 18:51:43 $ xxd javaversion.class Aug 01 18:51:43 0000000: cafe babe 0003 002d 0021 0a00 0700 1009 .......-.!...... Aug 01 18:51:44 i think its the ppc one anyway Aug 01 18:54:28 what alsa-statefile is for normal calling? capturehandset? Aug 01 18:55:00 libgsmd is tightly coupled with the GSM operation for the Neo1973 GSM chipset? Aug 01 18:55:23 mbuf: gsmd is generic. you give it a serial port. Aug 01 18:55:37 bah GPS sorry Aug 01 18:55:40 i always mix those up. Aug 01 18:55:41 don-o, ok Aug 01 18:57:18 what do you folks use for code cross-referencing? maybe we should have some doxygen or some documentation report run on the source code to view the data structures, functions? Aug 01 18:57:47 don-o, but, libgsmd is for gsm, not GPS? Aug 01 18:58:12 yeah, phone works, I did my first call now! :) Aug 01 18:58:19 ;-) Aug 01 18:59:05 at moment I'm using the AT commands and I'm wondering why the dialer won't work Aug 01 18:59:36 thomasg, probably you just tried the dialer at a bad time and the cli tool at a good time ;] Aug 01 18:59:44 hehe Aug 01 19:00:00 for normal I like cli apps, but on a phone it's a bit - erm - gay :) Aug 01 19:01:03 hi zecke Aug 01 19:01:33 ho Aug 01 19:03:33 UPS misrouted my neo, I've got to hop on a bus to get it in a little while Aug 01 19:06:35 hm, the gsmhandset.state isn't really great. it's not loud, but I'm getting acoustic feedback Aug 01 19:06:50 what are people using to play their ogg files? Aug 01 19:07:02 on the pc or on the neo? Aug 01 19:07:09 on their neo Aug 01 19:07:14 sorry :) Aug 01 19:07:21 well, at moment oggplay should be the best thing Aug 01 19:07:37 or no - thats not the name Aug 01 19:07:41 but it's similar :) Aug 01 19:07:47 ogg123 Aug 01 19:08:02 okey Aug 01 19:08:14 its commandline only Aug 01 19:08:34 how do i adjust vol Aug 01 19:08:39 using alsamixer e.g. Aug 01 19:08:51 and on ogg123 maybe with mplayer like commands on 9 and 0 Aug 01 19:10:30 sweet...jammin Aug 01 19:10:49 I only tested madplay Aug 01 19:11:06 the speakers are not really great, but should be ok for doing handsfree calls Aug 01 19:11:18 at least as good as my n800 Aug 01 19:12:02 I listend to Pixies and it was ok Aug 01 19:12:24 would'nt change it against my iAudio X5 and the westone plugs, but ok :) Aug 01 19:12:25 top says ogg123 is using 85% cpue Aug 01 19:12:36 hm, maybe ogg123 is crap :) Aug 01 19:12:55 :) Aug 01 19:12:59 was the smalles app that came into my mind Aug 01 19:13:12 is it integer based? Aug 01 19:13:13 hope to see mpd on my neo in future :) Aug 01 19:13:22 don't know Aug 01 19:13:24 yeah mpd would be nice Aug 01 19:13:44 i think a "canola" type interface would be cool for a media player on the neo Aug 01 19:13:53 just got my neo and flashed and could make calls/receive but no audio....couldnt spot anything on the wiki about this? any pointers? Aug 01 19:14:15 zedstar: thats easy Aug 01 19:14:18 just load the settings Aug 01 19:14:24 thomasg: only gsmheadset.state works Aug 01 19:14:35 I think ogg123 per default uses floating point, dunno how it's compiled on the flash; there is the fixed point vorbis decoder lib too... Aug 01 19:14:38 alsactl -f /etc/alsa/gsmhandset.state (works for me, writchie) restore Aug 01 19:14:53 with or without feedback Aug 01 19:15:00 with feedback :) Aug 01 19:15:07 that's what I mean. Aug 01 19:15:08 neo has a fp unit? Aug 01 19:15:12 No. Aug 01 19:15:13 the speakers are erroneously enabled Aug 01 19:15:13 Writchie, k, thx Aug 01 19:15:14 jaebird, no Aug 01 19:15:24 The neo is trash on fp-calc Aug 01 19:15:34 did you sort your data call issue Aug 01 19:15:39 not the neo, the arm9 without fp-coprocessor :) Aug 01 19:15:44 thomasg: ah ok thanks i think i saw this on the wiki referring to version0 phones will give it ago Aug 01 19:15:47 Err Aug 01 19:15:47 I mean Aug 01 19:15:49 Is that my decoding an MP3 takes 20% of the proc? Aug 01 19:15:50 Writchie, I did Aug 01 19:15:53 Is the neo trash on fp-calcs? Aug 01 19:16:03 what was it if i may ask Aug 01 19:16:03 softFPU? Aug 01 19:16:03 Writchie, was my mistake - forgot the ; behind the number :) Aug 01 19:16:13 calamous1_: 486/75 it took 110% or so. Aug 01 19:16:16 calamous1_, yes Aug 01 19:16:32 calamous1_: that's about 20% equiv. Aug 01 19:17:30 i think i'll go down and get a t-mobile prepaid sim Aug 01 19:17:40 t-mobile in US now has tunnelling of GSM through wi-fi Aug 01 19:17:40 jaebird: make sure it works Aug 01 19:17:51 with auto hand-over Aug 01 19:17:56 or so they say Aug 01 19:17:56 the at&t issue is frustrating Aug 01 19:18:01 yes it is Aug 01 19:18:07 calamous1_, actually I think madplay uses fixed point, and therefore only eats 20% Aug 01 19:18:12 the AT&T thing sounds ugly Aug 01 19:18:19 Yes I HATE at&t Aug 01 19:18:21 must be something special with their sim-cards Aug 01 19:18:30 and I'm really sad too today because of the FCC auction rules Aug 01 19:18:38 the sim works in my moto E2 Aug 01 19:18:38 I tested it with german UMTS-SIM-cards (USIM) at t-mobile and it works perfectly Aug 01 19:18:50 jaebird: send some devices to us (indt), so we can build canola for it ;) Aug 01 19:19:00 nice Aug 01 19:19:08 yours on the way yet? Aug 01 19:19:09 Harald said that FIC was talking with TI. how long do you think that will last? Aug 01 19:19:38 How responsive is TI? They are a big co Aug 01 19:19:41 jaebird: nope, we are waiting for them Aug 01 19:19:49 they can take their time :( Aug 01 19:20:08 yeah i know Aug 01 19:20:12 :( Aug 01 19:20:19 i wonder what location they are made Aug 01 19:20:29 jaebird: mine is coming, but have to way bit more due lack of devices Aug 01 19:20:31 i'm just down the road from them Aug 01 19:20:54 i could take a neo and a sim card over there...and say HEY! Aug 01 19:20:55 Should we try to contact TI and tell 'em to hurry up Aug 01 19:21:21 TI cell chip division is about like the NSA Aug 01 19:21:26 searching on calypso doesn't get much Aug 01 19:21:41 Jaebird: you live in texas? Aug 01 19:21:43 calamous1_: yes, madplay uses fixed point Aug 01 19:21:44 forget about them talking to anybody not prepared to buy a million chips Aug 01 19:21:45 ya Aug 01 19:21:50 jaebird: I'm sorry Aug 01 19:21:58 jaebird: where? I'm in Austin Aug 01 19:22:06 north texas Aug 01 19:22:39 calamous1: i'm not :) Aug 01 19:22:40 FIC would prob buy millions of chips if they worked Aug 01 19:22:50 FIC already buys millions of chips Aug 01 19:23:15 Then what is taking those texas yokels so long Aug 01 19:23:26 I hope that the communication will be better than with shipping... Aug 01 19:23:41 give me an address...i'll go down there Aug 01 19:24:21 does it surprise you that EVERYBODY's cards work and only AT&T's do not? Aug 01 19:24:35 TI Addresses Aug 01 19:24:35 Executive Offices: Aug 01 19:24:35 12500 TI Boulevard Aug 01 19:24:35 Dallas, Texas Aug 01 19:24:45 goes to /dev/null Aug 01 19:25:02 Writchie: Are you suggesting at&t purposly build a neo-defeater into it? Aug 01 19:25:10 but conversely, i have not had any other unlocked phone not work with AT&T sim cards either Aug 01 19:25:11 not neo Aug 01 19:25:27 at&t wants money Aug 01 19:25:38 so they want their cards to work with our stuff Aug 01 19:25:43 i would speculate that its related to iPhone DRM Aug 01 19:25:46 calamous1_: the division that made the chipset Aug 01 19:25:58 i worked at ti about 10yrs ago Aug 01 19:26:02 and their fancy 3G DRM apps on their new SIM cards Aug 01 19:26:08 it is a big place...(lots of big places) Aug 01 19:26:13 What DRM is on the simcard? Aug 01 19:26:36 I'm in north Texas, too! Aug 01 19:26:43 on AT&T's new card there is lots of it Aug 01 19:26:48 (Just thought I'd share) Aug 01 19:27:10 Writchie: what does it too? or susposed to do? people from sharing ringtones Aug 01 19:27:13 top says everything is running as root? Aug 01 19:27:15 AT&T doesn't believe in open networks, wish they never let you hook up your own land phone Aug 01 19:27:36 ozarka: join the local group on the wiki Aug 01 19:27:43 Writchie: are you sad about the 700MHZ auction rules Aug 01 19:27:45 GSM philosophy is totally contrary to Bell shaped head mentality Aug 01 19:27:58 no sad at all, equipment will be open Aug 01 19:28:17 probably will mean a new GSM 750 band Aug 01 19:28:28 jaebird: I'm already on it. Aug 01 19:28:38 what is interesting is that cingular was one of the most open providers...compared to verizon or sprint Aug 01 19:28:55 Who is more "evil" verizon or at&t? Aug 01 19:28:56 ozarka: cool Aug 01 19:29:04 both are Bell shaped heads Aug 01 19:29:06 for lack of a better word Aug 01 19:29:12 but at least AT&T has a GSM network Aug 01 19:29:18 so there's hope Aug 01 19:29:30 when the last of Bell Shaped heads retire. Aug 01 19:29:35 "Never ascribe to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity" ~Napoleon Aug 01 19:29:37 sprint is kicking out customers that are too dificult! Aug 01 19:29:46 I heard that at&t's network in the US is the worst Aug 01 19:29:56 or conspiracy where incompetence will do Aug 01 19:30:06 Sprint's is the worst - at least around the great lakes. Aug 01 19:30:21 everybody would like to kick out such customers Aug 01 19:30:26 calamous1_: depends where you are, in texas it is pretty good Aug 01 19:30:34 the PR cost them pretty bad. Aug 01 19:30:40 calamous1_: I vote Verizon as the most evil... but AT&T does have the Death Star for their logo... Aug 01 19:30:41 It's hard to imagine two hours of dead time with no usable cell signal --- driving between Chicago and Detroit!!! Aug 01 19:30:44 So it's a close call. Aug 01 19:31:11 mwester: are you from chicago? Aug 01 19:31:27 Close enough. Aug 01 19:31:40 where? Aug 01 19:31:40 (NW suburbs) Aug 01 19:31:45 like aurora? Aug 01 19:31:52 Palentine? Aug 01 19:31:56 Barrington? Aug 01 19:32:01 Arlington Hegihts? Aug 01 19:32:04 about 20 miles north of aurora, a bit north of Elgin Aug 01 19:32:39 mwester: I'm from the city (Lincoln Park) and there was another guy jason ewell who is from suburbs Aug 01 19:32:57 We should all get together Aug 01 19:33:25 http://www.corante.com/unwired/archives/2005/02/22/a_public_service_message_for_all_cingular_treo_650_users.php Aug 01 19:33:28 I saw on the wiki that there were a bunch of Chicago-based folks; but I'm still waiting for any sign that a neo might actually be shipped. So I'm just sorta lurking, I guess. Aug 01 19:33:38 they exchanged gemplus sim cards back then Aug 01 19:33:45 mwester: bummer, you don't have it yet? Aug 01 19:33:58 seems that sim problems have happened before Aug 01 19:34:09 t-mobile is GSM right? Aug 01 19:34:09 3296 -- no sign of when they'll even manufacture that batch! Aug 01 19:34:29 cause I think i may buy another prepaid plan (since at&t didnt work) Aug 01 19:34:48 t-mobile is GSM; I have a pay-as-you-go sim from t-mobile that works in my unlocked AT&T phone. Aug 01 19:35:17 Can Iphone do GSM? Aug 01 19:35:23 iPhone is GSM Aug 01 19:35:35 it uses the same at&t sim card that DOSENT work in the neo Aug 01 19:35:44 iPhone is GSM lite :) (only ATT atm) Aug 01 19:35:58 I've inspected 3 iPhones and its all at&t sim number 71234 4021 Aug 01 19:36:42 What is an AGPS vs a GPS? Aug 01 19:36:44 iPhone SIM is activated OTA Aug 01 19:36:48 63698 G 3002 doesn't work Aug 01 19:37:00 jaebird: from at&t? Aug 01 19:37:00 64205 O 4020 doesn't work Aug 01 19:37:05 calamous1_: See AGPS on the wiki Aug 01 19:37:09 both (cingular) at&t Aug 01 19:37:16 Or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A-GPS Aug 01 19:37:41 added to bug# 666 Aug 01 19:38:07 my guess is that the iPhone reads the SIM application and refuses to work if not there. Aug 01 19:38:15 3021 doesn't work either Aug 01 19:38:44 daMaestro: what is the sku and manufacture on that one Aug 01 19:39:08 not sure Aug 01 19:39:10 what are the sku's for people who's sims ARE working? Aug 01 19:39:21 mine are over 2yrs old Aug 01 19:39:28 73000G - 3021 is what i wrote down Aug 01 19:39:31 jaebird: good question? Aug 01 19:39:38 it was the one in the drawer at the att stores Aug 01 19:39:50 How do you read the xxxx number Aug 01 19:40:03 mfgr - something - something - something? Aug 01 19:40:14 the xxxxx is sku followed by a letter code which is manufacturer Aug 01 19:40:30 then the 4 digit batch/version number, iirc Aug 01 19:40:39 iirc? Aug 01 19:40:48 G = Gemplus Aug 01 19:40:53 O = Oberthur Aug 01 19:41:24 then i found another on the www as Axalto Aug 01 19:41:25 jaebird, would you add what information will be helpful to http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Carriers/ATT Aug 01 19:42:54 sure... Aug 01 19:43:49 calamous1_, so i am assuming there still has been no reports they work? Aug 01 19:44:09 calamous1_, bar a random comment i saw that 1 in 5 "kinda" worked Aug 01 19:44:21 (1 out of every 5 boots) Aug 01 19:45:25 daMaestro: what are you refering too? the at&t sim cards Aug 01 19:45:33 yes Aug 01 19:45:59 Ive booted my neo 20+ times and it dosent work. The intersting part is sometimes the GSM daemon wont crash on boot Aug 01 19:46:17 I would like to speak with someone who got 71234 - 4021 working in their neo Aug 01 19:55:01 Hi there, Aug 01 19:55:17 juchu! (german for wohoo!) after 4 long days of waiting today I got the NEO! Aug 01 19:55:52 A *BIG* *THANX* to the Neo an Moko Team for this precious peace of hardware! :-) Aug 01 19:56:39 Yay! Aug 01 19:56:58 gj Aug 01 19:56:59 * dfoelber_ is very jealous Aug 01 19:57:02 gratz Aug 01 19:57:23 I'm holding out for GTA02, but it's hard I can tell you Aug 01 19:57:25 I was looking at the GSM specifications Aug 01 19:57:29 which are most people using to flash their neo's? i just tried http://chooseopen.com/openmoko/build/ or should i be using the official link? Aug 01 19:57:34 It seems like etherenet tcp/ip is more simple Aug 01 19:57:40 and straightforward Aug 01 19:58:28 * k-s[WORK] is away: Gone away for now. Aug 01 20:00:51 calamous1_: the hole bunch of GSM-specificstion can be found here: www.etsi.org Aug 01 20:01:11 some of them free of charge for private use Aug 01 20:01:20 Risto: all 1000 pages+ :P Aug 01 20:01:29 1000 pages, you wish Aug 01 20:01:57 1000 pages would be the beginners guide. Aug 01 20:02:13 GSM for dummies Aug 01 20:02:51 Writchie: then theres gsm for dummies for dummies Aug 01 20:03:07 1000pages @ DIN A0? Aug 01 20:03:22 you got to take a survey course first Aug 01 20:03:58 i need a "rdp protocol for gibbering morons, AKA microsoft admins" Aug 01 20:04:04 Anyone fancy answering (yet another) bitbake question? Aug 01 20:05:37 they should include an airhorn sound on the phones for any telemarketers Aug 01 20:05:38 calamou1_: when your done reading GSM specs you can hop on over the open mobile alliance Aug 01 20:05:51 xzcvczx: it's in the wiki Aug 01 20:05:59 IIRC 'play sound clips' in Wish List Aug 01 20:06:03 daMaestro: Updated... http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Carriers/ATT Aug 01 20:06:09 yeah was reading that halfhour ago Aug 01 20:06:42 jaebird, thanks Aug 01 20:07:19 * xzcvczx hopes his phone doesnt get picked out by customs Aug 01 20:07:40 Exception: Customs blended your phone. Aug 01 20:08:18 jaebird, nice.. i'll add the info i know of Aug 01 20:08:35 SpeedEvil: let them try Aug 01 20:08:42 SpeedEvil: don't joke... Aug 01 20:08:48 :) Aug 01 20:08:52 on the ml some old sims worked, but they didn't give the info.. Aug 01 20:08:56 Customs are not my friends. Aug 01 20:09:03 SpeedEvil: Exception: Customs staff member decided your phone looked nicer than theres so took it. Aug 01 20:09:04 They confiscated some laser pointers once. Aug 01 20:09:19 lol based on what Aug 01 20:09:23 They claimed then to measure them and find they were 5.04mW Aug 01 20:09:27 Not 5mW Aug 01 20:09:32 therefore they were dangerous. Aug 01 20:09:36 actually the ones shipped with NEO are on the US list - $300,000 fine Aug 01 20:10:05 ? Aug 01 20:10:37 unlabeled class IIIa lasers are a no no Aug 01 20:11:02 (script) openmoko-devel: "Michael 'Mickey' Lauer" Re: Tree build system and OM2007.2 Aug 01 20:11:12 it's unlabelled in the box, or just in marketing material? Aug 01 20:11:12 need a warning like don't eat the dehumidy bags Aug 01 20:11:14 * xzcvczx writes he must stay awake for the next 10hours 1000 times Aug 01 20:11:51 what I can't figure out is what good are warnings when the people are too stupid to read. Aug 01 20:13:38 Writchie: well unfourtunately thats about 1/2 the worlds population Aug 01 20:14:13 Writchie: actually I worked that one out recently Aug 01 20:14:48 Having left a bunch of those around forever, deciding after some thought that I wasn't going to eat them personally, my young daughter tried one out... Aug 01 20:15:19 So the warning should really be something like "you may not be stupid enough to eat this yourself but don't be so stupid as to leave it where others who don't know what it is may eat it" Aug 01 20:15:38 like plastic bags. Aug 01 20:15:54 Yeah Aug 01 20:16:29 more than 1/2 the people of functionally illiterate Aug 01 20:16:36 and that's just the politicians Aug 01 20:17:09 wow... Aug 01 20:17:23 so to tag onto the "att no workie" ... the bug is 666 Aug 01 20:17:40 and comment 6 is where we hear "not our problem, and the company in question sucks" Aug 01 20:17:42 http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=666#c6 Aug 01 20:18:58 rtp, you did the s3c ts driver? Aug 01 20:22:11 the problem with at&t sucking is that it only leaves t-mo in the us... and MVNO's... :P Aug 01 20:24:22 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[User:Glenn]] [[Carriers/ATT]] [[Bluetooth_Support]] [[Wish_List_-_Hardware]] [[OpenMoko2007.2]] Aug 01 20:26:44 the problem with the at&t thing is that I *already* have an unlimited data account with AT&T on my Treo -- so a second account with T-Mobile just for development purposes on the Neo would be an unexpected monthly expense. Aug 01 20:27:07 Please don't let this man torture me. Aug 01 20:27:57 That bot is a whiner, isn't it? Aug 01 20:28:04 heheh Aug 01 20:28:09 the at&t issue _has_ to be solvable, i bet most US customers are expecting to use it Aug 01 20:28:57 I'm sure it will be, I just hope it's solvable in firmware in the P1, and not something that requires P2. Aug 01 20:29:21 i wonder how many enduser there are to the calypso gsm chip... Aug 01 20:29:47 if FIC is a big customer of it, ti should respond fairly quickly Aug 01 20:30:21 how does one flash the GSM firmware!! Aug 01 20:30:28 One doesn't. Aug 01 20:30:34 There is no released flashing tool. Aug 01 20:30:43 it'd have to be an rma process Aug 01 20:30:47 As reported so far, the flashing can only happen at FIC Aug 01 20:30:47 One isn't allowed to. Aug 01 20:30:47 anyone thought about a finger operatable keyboard? Aug 01 20:30:57 I was thinking hard about it today and had a brain fart Aug 01 20:30:59 er Aug 01 20:31:01 weez: Wow! you must be the first! Aug 01 20:31:02 i mean an inspiration Aug 01 20:31:10 We've all been using our toes. Aug 01 20:31:28 this may push them (ti) to allow a flash tool Aug 01 20:31:34 Perhaps. Aug 01 20:31:42 However - not for 500 units. Aug 01 20:31:45 is the onscreen keyboard easily usable with fingers? Aug 01 20:31:49 weez, no Aug 01 20:31:50 i was using a stylus Aug 01 20:31:53 ok Aug 01 20:31:54 in fact very difficultly Aug 01 20:31:54 * * OM Bug 677 has been created by mjr(AT)iki.fi Aug 01 20:31:55 * * I/O errors on heavy microSD writes Aug 01 20:31:56 then my idea Aug 01 20:31:56 * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=677 Aug 01 20:32:03 Some say thatr they can use the keyboard with fingers. Aug 01 20:32:14 was to split the keyboard in 2 halves like one of the natural keyboards Aug 01 20:32:16 I do have non-small hands Aug 01 20:32:20 and use the aux button to switch halves Aug 01 20:32:21 SpeedEvil, umm.. soooo... does this mean we have to pay to have the modem flashed? Aug 01 20:32:24 I can imagine some people being able to use it Aug 01 20:32:32 keys for keyboard can be much bigger then Aug 01 20:32:38 * mjr pats his bluetooth keyboard Aug 01 20:32:49 daMaestro: I don't know. I'd hope FIC would cover it. Aug 01 20:32:54 i cant always carry an external keyboard though Aug 01 20:33:01 Does anyone know the current status of the GPS software> Aug 01 20:33:04 that might end up being the straw + camel back + breakage that looses me as a developer Aug 01 20:33:05 ? Aug 01 20:33:11 CathodioN: binary not shipped with P1 Aug 01 20:33:18 Going to be available 'real soon now' Aug 01 20:33:25 k, but does it work? Aug 01 20:33:27 lesson learned: test with all major providers before shipping! Aug 01 20:33:28 yes Aug 01 20:33:41 i want to write a deamon that sends GPS location to a server Aug 01 20:33:44 does openmoko inc have any us developers? Aug 01 20:33:48 too many things have added up that are flat out pissing me off; including att sim and no gps Aug 01 20:34:05 no, but sean comes to the us a _lot_ Aug 01 20:34:24 daMaestro: that's the downside of early development. Do your development ideas need that stuff right now? Aug 01 20:34:39 umm... a working gsm modem, yes Aug 01 20:34:44 gps, not so much Aug 01 20:34:47 That's amazing when you think about it. Who all had P0 phones? Did NONE of them go to the US, where they could have been tested with an AT&T SIM? Aug 01 20:35:02 daMaestro: what do you mean by 'no gps'? Aug 01 20:35:06 I know I tried to get on the P0 list, seemed to me that only the buddies of the core team got them. Aug 01 20:35:07 well...i tried :) Aug 01 20:35:11 no GPS binary software bundled. Aug 01 20:35:21 mwester: the P0 people I can think about are not in the US Aug 01 20:36:02 SpeedEvil: gllin is on the flashram of the device when its shipped, right? Aug 01 20:36:03 Yep. Seems to me that somebody messed up big-time on that. AT&T, while they may be evil-incarnate, is the major player here. Aug 01 20:36:10 don-o: no Aug 01 20:36:27 SpeedEvil: it would be nice if the new gllin would have debugsymbols *whistle* ;-) Aug 01 20:36:32 * LarstiQ shrugs Aug 01 20:36:49 pjz, just looking back and saw you are in austin Aug 01 20:37:07 pjz, did you get a p1? Aug 01 20:37:37 SpeedEvil: hmm. there was earlier chat about being careful to copy some piece of gps software from the shipped device before flashing because there was no other way to get it. Aug 01 20:37:53 don-o: that was revealed to be assumptions. Aug 01 20:37:53 don-o, it was shipped with some earlier devices, not these Aug 01 20:37:54 p0 Aug 01 20:37:55 I have to power down my phone to check, but my card is att&t and it works fine. It is old though, 2.5 years old. It may be a verison. I will check. Aug 01 20:38:14 cindy: put it on the list Aug 01 20:38:52 cindy, please, put it on the list Aug 01 20:39:06 i was told that you can't re-activate any 2g cards; though Aug 01 20:39:07 I will as soon as I can figure out what the manufacture number etc is. Aug 01 20:39:25 so only those with existing accounts can do anything with them Aug 01 20:39:28 I see gpsd talks python Aug 01 20:39:32 thats good Aug 01 20:40:28 by the way, anyone from the core team online now? Aug 01 20:41:24 hehe - I suspect they stay away from this channel as far as they can -- else they would get pummeled for order status information, technical questions, and get no work done! Aug 01 20:41:29 SpeedEvil: Charging looks funky. After a few hours it goes into a slower charge mode Aug 01 20:41:36 mwester: too true! Aug 01 20:41:55 Writchie: it should Aug 01 20:42:09 Writchie: it should charge at max power till it hits 4.2V Aug 01 20:42:10 My card has "AT&T Wireless" and then a 20 digit number. What part of that is the SKU and Vender? There is nothing else on it. Aug 01 20:42:10 Currently sold Neo1973 GTA01B_v04 (P1) doesn't have WiFi, GTA02 (P2) which is scheduled for October will have WiFi with free (libre) drivers (Atheros AR6K): http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ#Q:_What_is_the_rationale_behind_the_exclusion_of_WiFi.3F Aug 01 20:42:11 at 300ma i would expect it to pretty much top off the battery Aug 01 20:42:18 then it should float at 4.2V for an hourish Aug 01 20:42:30 Shoragan: if it's in the source code, it must be true :) Aug 01 20:42:55 Cindy: flip it over; should be a 5 digit, then letter, then 4 digit (I think) number. Aug 01 20:43:06 doesn't look like float when it's still drawing 150ma Aug 01 20:43:12 on top of the device power Aug 01 20:43:17 Writchie: after how long? Aug 01 20:43:17 there is a lot of noise in the vertical value, the horzontal one seem ok... any idea about the cause? Aug 01 20:43:32 how would i go about updating my phone?... or if im not mistaken the firware Aug 01 20:43:32 anthony_: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (and also SH1_FAQ, Neo1973, Developer_preview and Neo1973_Hardware#GTA01Bv4 pages) (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) Aug 01 20:43:41 seemed to be about 3 hours into a dead battery Aug 01 20:44:08 shouldn't be enough power to trip temp regulation Aug 01 20:44:49 ~seen balrug-kun Aug 01 20:45:05 Writchie: It should take about 1.5? hours to get to the float voltage Aug 01 20:45:12 i haven't seen 'balrug-kun', Elrond Aug 01 20:45:25 Then it will it will float charge for 1 hour or so. Aug 01 20:45:35 Writchie: should at least. Aug 01 20:45:38 Sorry, nothing on the back except the contacts. I checked for indentations, nothing. Not sure if it will help to add it to the list unless I say an unmarked SIM! Aug 01 20:45:39 energy doesn't add up Aug 01 20:46:04 Measure volts across battery maybe. Aug 01 20:46:05 SpeedEvil: my charging curves took nearly 3.6 hours till 4.2v from a dead battery. Aug 01 20:46:21 That assumes 500mA at 100% efficiency Aug 01 20:46:29 If it uses a simple series dropper, it's less. Aug 01 20:46:43 sure better be switch mode Aug 01 20:46:47 takes longer that is. Aug 01 20:47:19 cindy, that is an old cingular sim card? Aug 01 20:48:03 3.6 hours makes sense based on energy. Aug 01 20:48:30 jaebird, yes I think it was from a cingular account but it says AT&T on it. Aug 01 20:48:32 but continuing to draw 150ma for hours doesn't seem right. Aug 01 20:48:52 Writchie: why not? Aug 01 20:49:13 the old AT&T Wireless was bought out by cingular several years ago Aug 01 20:49:14 Where's it going - doesn't seem to be heat. Aug 01 20:49:27 were the gsm? Aug 01 20:49:33 s/the/they Aug 01 20:50:13 may be we don't have enough voltage coming in to maintain fast charge Aug 01 20:50:36 as i recall you need both dt and dv Aug 01 20:50:49 folks, sorry for al the questions and all, but are you all developers? Aug 01 20:52:06 I've booted up an OpenMoko Project to share GPS locations across OpenMoko devices, and some ppl joined, but after that it became dead silent Aug 01 20:52:19 not much action happening right> Aug 01 20:52:20 ? Aug 01 20:52:32 great idea cathodion Aug 01 20:52:45 CathodioN - I haven't understood the idea. Aug 01 20:53:04 ok... well i guess i'll go buy tmobile while i'm off at lunch Aug 01 20:53:13 I was thinking of sharing my location info with friends by sending location tweets to twittervision Aug 01 20:53:21 i do want to say that it was an error to not have this tested for p1 Aug 01 20:53:31 If my buddy and i both have a Neo with GPS and GPRS, i want his Neo to send its coords over the internet to my Neo and see his location on the map Aug 01 20:53:48 nice idea Aug 01 20:53:55 CathodioN, you can use SMS too? Aug 01 20:53:56 CathodioN - Ahh, fun idea. Aug 01 20:54:03 <-- too paranoid for thiss. Aug 01 20:54:06 Yes, SMS can be used too Aug 01 20:54:10 yeah, sms Aug 01 20:54:11 yeah, such a location service is one of the must-haves Aug 01 20:54:12 "here is me" service Aug 01 20:54:13 --source wife -J DROP Aug 01 20:54:19 lol Aug 01 20:54:21 but it likely to be more expensive Aug 01 20:54:38 Elrond: no need to be paranoid. the phone is open source. we know exactly what it's doing with the information Aug 01 20:54:40 ahh right; i see that aspect Aug 01 20:54:55 going straight to NSA Aug 01 20:54:55 not with flat grps Aug 01 20:55:10 mrface - Yeah. Need crypto for sending over gprs. ;-) Aug 01 20:55:10 s/grps/gprs Aug 01 20:55:19 oh yeah Aug 01 20:55:23 rot14 Aug 01 20:55:24 :p Aug 01 20:55:29 you can use crypto on the SMS too Aug 01 20:55:35 yes Aug 01 20:55:46 and the neo will be banned in US :p Aug 01 20:55:52 nsa already knows where we are anyway right? Aug 01 20:55:52 mrface: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (and also SH1_FAQ, Neo1973, Developer_preview and Neo1973_Hardware#GTA01Bv4 pages) (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) Aug 01 20:56:01 doh! Aug 01 20:56:01 ynezz - Only that app will be banned. ;) Aug 01 20:56:29 we'll just ban the reception of crypto messages Aug 01 20:56:29 until someone hijack plane with neo Aug 01 20:56:31 :p Aug 01 20:56:34 mrface - If you enable the gsm (which you need to for gprs), they know your location, right. Aug 01 20:56:40 anyway, i need some the write the client app Aug 01 20:56:58 <-- busy writing gps crap. ;o) Aug 01 20:57:00 i'm a professional Java EE programmer Aug 01 20:57:19 sorry Aug 01 20:57:23 professional as in "its my job: Aug 01 20:57:25 elrond: so you're one of the lucky ones with gllin Aug 01 20:57:25 " Aug 01 20:57:26 :P Aug 01 20:57:46 CathodioN: you have my sympathies Aug 01 20:57:52 mrface - I don't need gllin. Aug 01 20:58:01 * CathodioN chears Aug 01 20:58:03 CathodioN: I'm a professional Java ME developer ;) Aug 01 20:58:11 nice Aug 01 20:58:13 I'm professional IRC idler Aug 01 20:58:14 CathodioN: on the API dev side Aug 01 20:58:21 CathodioN: mixed embedded C/Java Aug 01 20:58:21 ynezz: LOL Aug 01 20:58:22 ynezz - *lol* ;-) Aug 01 20:58:25 is there a Java PhD Aug 01 20:58:33 EE ME PhD Aug 01 20:58:49 elrond: I didn't know that. you can trace to a file without gllin (insert question mark here) Aug 01 20:58:49 Writchie - There's an irc phd. ;o) Aug 01 20:59:03 mail oredr Aug 01 20:59:14 mrface - No. I can talk to the HH and get some info from it. But no location yet. Aug 01 20:59:16 ynezz, where do I apply for that job, what does it pay? Aug 01 20:59:51 not much, but it's fun Aug 01 20:59:56 heh Aug 01 21:00:15 elrond: I see. you had my hopes up for a sec. ;) I really want to start contributing to openstreetmaps. the coverage in oregon is terrible Aug 01 21:00:45 or make some fund and buy the maps for whole world :p Aug 01 21:00:52 from teleatlas or so Aug 01 21:01:10 mrface - I guess, gllin will soon pop up in a sharing system near you. ;o) Aug 01 21:01:29 but yes, it's not that much fun as to do it yourself... Aug 01 21:01:31 yay, phone just arrived Aug 01 21:01:39 elrond: I hope so. I'll keep my eye out Aug 01 21:03:40 yo hrw Aug 01 21:03:44 yo Aug 01 21:04:10 hey Aug 01 21:04:33 I didn't know ben goodger was interested in openmoko, is he going to put firefox on it? Aug 01 21:05:04 mrface: would be nice as firefox is terrible when it comes to build for eabi Aug 01 21:05:19 ahh Aug 01 21:05:39 we can build it but it segfaults Aug 01 21:05:48 so has anyone been able to find gllin or do we need to wait Aug 01 21:06:17 gliin? its on my phone so I do not need to search for it Aug 01 21:06:18 ;D Aug 01 21:06:40 there are some pretty old images on buildhost.openmoko.org ~June 4th, I wonder if it would be in there Aug 01 21:06:52 hrw: good for you :) Aug 01 21:07:28 mrface: gliin is not in any built image Aug 01 21:07:37 dammit Aug 01 21:07:44 arg Aug 01 21:07:50 mrface: it was available only on some of phone sold for selected devs Aug 01 21:08:13 got it, so when you flash you have to copy it back over? Aug 01 21:08:18 yes Aug 01 21:08:20 there are a whole bunch of errors like this: ERROR: 'module' object has no attribute 'get_srcrev' while parsing /mokoa/org.openembedded.dev/packages/openmoko-panel-plugins/openmoko-panel-clock_svn.bb Aug 01 21:08:28 and I can not share it Aug 01 21:08:29 in openembedded head while trying to build angstrom Aug 01 21:08:37 yes, I assumed so Aug 01 21:08:37 happycube: you can ignore that error Aug 01 21:08:50 you can't with bitbank 1.8 Aug 01 21:08:53 *bitbake Aug 01 21:09:01 happycube: you can if you use 1.8svn Aug 01 21:09:04 ooooh Aug 01 21:09:18 happycube: trust me - I use such combo and built angstrom images today Aug 01 21:09:22 * happycube gets svn Aug 01 21:13:03 Please don't let this man torture me. Aug 01 21:13:54 * * OM Bug 678 has been created by mjr(AT)iki.fi Aug 01 21:13:55 * * System inappropriately suspends with no GUI app present Aug 01 21:13:56 * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=678 Aug 01 21:33:06 * Psi_ has his phone and is read to flash it, im reading flashing_openmoko atm, but just to check, all i should do is flash the kernel and root fs right? Aug 01 21:33:14 today anyone here who can tell me the solution of the perl-native cannot find asm/page.h problem? :) Aug 01 21:33:47 Psi_, thats correct, you shouldn't flash u-boot if you have no jtag. the kernel and rootfs can be flashed without a problem Aug 01 21:34:06 thanks Aug 01 21:34:29 hrw - thanks, that seems to be working now Aug 01 21:34:55 Psi_ - Right. Aug 01 21:35:15 should i use the unoffical http://chooseopen.com builds or the offical buildhost ones? Aug 01 21:35:41 I'd recommend buildhost. But that's me. Aug 01 21:35:58 thomasg: you've got the wrong kernel headers Aug 01 21:37:20 pjz, I think you're right. why didn't I have this idea by myself? -.- Aug 01 21:38:19 whats the difference between the images that have moko10 and moko11 ? Aug 01 21:39:13 moko11 is a little newer. Aug 01 21:39:29 thx Aug 01 21:39:40 pjz, seems to be a general gentoo problem. gentoo uses 2.6.21 kernel-headers but only a 2.6.20 kernel. sounds weird Aug 01 21:40:04 thomasg: kernel headers does not have to match kernel running Aug 01 21:40:08 does anyone have any prebuilt ångstrom images I might test for fun? or prebuilt images that have the openmoko-today2 with kinetic scrolling etc? Aug 01 21:40:36 what about uImage vs zImage ? Aug 01 21:40:42 Psi_: use uimage Aug 01 21:40:45 hrw, that sounds weird, too :) Aug 01 21:40:50 uImage is zImage with uboot header Aug 01 21:40:54 Psi_, zImage won't work, onlz uImage works Aug 01 21:40:54 ah Aug 01 21:41:04 Hadaka: fix my upload so I will give you one Aug 01 21:41:37 hrw: heh, what's wrong with your upload? Aug 01 21:41:47 my isp fscked it Aug 01 21:41:58 I have ~90kbps instead of 512kbps Aug 01 21:42:05 hrw: ah, sucks :( Aug 01 21:43:55 pjz, so can you tell me what kernel-headers I'd need? Aug 01 21:44:24 thomasg still the perl problem? Aug 01 21:44:35 woglinde, yes :( Aug 01 21:44:48 thomasg: use 2.6.20 ones Aug 01 21:44:54 hrw, I have 2.6.21 Aug 01 21:45:01 hrw he hase asm/page.h error with perl Aug 01 21:45:10 bu I forget the solution Aug 01 21:45:30 thomasg: which ver of perl is built? Aug 01 21:46:02 5.8.4? 5.8.7? 5.8.8? Aug 01 21:46:09 hrw, mom, I have to start the script again, don't know Aug 01 21:46:17 I'm using mokomakefile Aug 01 21:46:43 ah.. so you are still using obsolete OE tree which openmoko guys were using... Aug 01 21:47:27 no solution then. Aug 01 21:47:39 so what was your problem? Aug 01 21:47:49 or what else could I do? Aug 01 21:47:50 not until openmoko officially switch to OE dev tree Aug 01 21:48:20 wait until they move to OE dev tree is easiest Aug 01 21:48:36 * hrw goes to sleep Aug 01 21:48:42 ok hrw, thanks for your help Aug 01 21:48:53 I wonder why matchbox-keyboard is sending spurious backspaces and enter keys when typing on it Aug 01 21:49:01 thomasg someone here had a soultion Aug 01 21:49:09 but a I said I dont remeber Aug 01 21:49:11 Arachnid: you awake? Aug 01 21:49:14 woglinde, no logs? :) Aug 01 21:49:20 no Aug 01 21:49:24 hm but maybee the bot Aug 01 21:49:31 try google search Aug 01 21:49:39 for cdbot Aug 01 21:49:43 or mokobot Aug 01 21:50:22 could this be the solution? FreeNode-#openmoko.log:Jul 17 01:14:22 this was asked here before, and the suggestions was: you need to create a simlink of include/asm/page.h from linux source to /usr/include/asm/page.h Aug 01 21:50:36 yes Aug 01 21:50:40 that it was Aug 01 21:50:42 nasty hack Aug 01 21:50:48 hehe Aug 01 21:51:16 Psi_: howd you get it so damn early Aug 01 21:52:23 ok woglinde, will see if it'll work. thanks for your efforts Aug 01 21:52:57 Psi_: who was it delivered by? Aug 01 21:58:52 xzcvczx, a guy. hehe i dunno Aug 01 21:59:02 i wasnt really looking at him or his van Aug 01 21:59:34 Psi_: not clearly ups then? Aug 01 21:59:48 whee, I have bluetooth pan networking :) Aug 01 22:00:31 xzcvczx: Yup Aug 01 22:00:47 hey Arachnid Aug 01 22:00:51 xzcvczx: Where's your parcel? Aug 01 22:00:53 Psi_: hi there Aug 01 22:01:11 hi! Aug 01 22:01:44 hi Aug 01 22:02:13 Are they still shipping phones .. ? Or have they ran out of them ? Aug 01 22:02:33 Psi_: well was it yellow? :P Aug 01 22:03:20 the van Aug 01 22:03:22 i didnt look Aug 01 22:04:21 codyl: My understanding is that they are out of phones, but more should be arriving in the US in a few weeks. Aug 01 22:04:28 I dont know! But I dont like autotools Aug 01 22:04:36 Orange phones were supposed to ship this week. Aug 01 22:04:43 What do you guys think of it? Aug 01 22:04:46 ozarka: tomorrow afaik Aug 01 22:04:58 it disables one main feature of make Aug 01 22:04:58 my phone is flashing rootfs Aug 01 22:04:59 Psi_: You got your phone? Curse you! Aug 01 22:05:00 * Psi_ watches Aug 01 22:05:09 Mine is still stuck in Auckland. :/ Aug 01 22:05:13 I gather you didn't have to pay customs? Aug 01 22:05:19 nope Aug 01 22:05:21 LarstiQ: Was there an update on the orange ones? Aug 01 22:05:33 There's hope yet, then... Aug 01 22:05:34 I ordered orange but I haven't heard anything. Aug 01 22:05:35 they are too busy checking for drugs to make ppl pay customs on stuff Aug 01 22:05:39 heh Aug 01 22:05:54 only if they have to stop your package and check for drugs do they bother to make you pay customs at the same time Aug 01 22:05:56 Normaly you dont compile the whole binary just the object file you modified. Aug 01 22:06:05 Mine's last activity is an "import scan" at 4:10 AM" and (after that!) an "in transit scan" at 3:39AM Aug 01 22:06:14 Psi_: They used to stop everything Aug 01 22:06:15 and then link it to the binary Aug 01 22:06:19 ozarka: yeah Aug 01 22:06:21 (everything over $400, anyway) Aug 01 22:06:22 mjr: make sure you update the wiki :) Aug 01 22:06:23 i got done for about 43 pounds by UK customs the bastards :) Aug 01 22:06:36 but autotools destroy this feature Aug 01 22:06:53 Arachnid, well didnt stop mine, and thats what dad told me, he works with the xray machines at customs/airport etc. Aug 01 22:07:10 but maybe only geeks complain about this Aug 01 22:07:32 LarstiQ: That's good news. Aug 01 22:07:36 yeah Aug 01 22:07:46 Just speaking from experience in the past - the distant past. :P Aug 01 22:07:57 * Arachnid hopes it'll get here today, but doubts it. :/ Aug 01 22:07:57 Arachnid: mine will hopefully be here by midday based on Psi_ having his already Aug 01 22:07:59 id imagine they amount of drugs gets larger every year Aug 01 22:08:07 mine arrived at 9am Aug 01 22:08:15 you lucky sod Aug 01 22:08:20 ozarka: it's out of my scrollback, but someone mentioned he ge got a reply stating the batch with his orange neo would be arriving in the us tomorrow iirc Aug 01 22:08:25 ozarka: couple of hours back Aug 01 22:08:29 thats the best i have ever heard of a courier coming Aug 01 22:08:33 it's getting thrilling - perl-native builds now Aug 01 22:08:34 xzcvczx, my guess would be that yours is in the same van and he will get to you within a few hours Aug 01 22:08:57 if not then should definitly be on the next run at 3pm or whatever Aug 01 22:09:01 Psi_: i would doubt it cbd potentially requires own van/2 Aug 01 22:09:13 oh, yeah your right Aug 01 22:09:20 better not be on the next run i will shoot them Aug 01 22:09:25 heh Aug 01 22:09:31 I have a neo that almost works for phone calls - the only problem is that the speaker produces a loud ~1 kHz tone that might be feedback, when calls are connected. Has anyone run into a problem like that? Aug 01 22:09:32 damn the rootfs takes ages to upload Aug 01 22:09:38 the guy developing make are real gurus Aug 01 22:09:39 of course usb1 Aug 01 22:09:56 automake = qmake = kiddies Aug 01 22:10:08 LarstiQ: Thanks. I see it in the scrollback now. It was Kensan that inquied about his device and got a response. Aug 01 22:10:12 not usb1 problem - takes about 6 minutes Aug 01 22:10:22 only loads at 64KBps Aug 01 22:10:25 Taco: Open alsamixer and turn down the first slider, the master control. Aug 01 22:10:26 just slow flash? Aug 01 22:10:48 no, DFU is doesn't use bulk Aug 01 22:10:51 Thanks! I'll try that." Aug 01 22:11:01 what most people dont know make isnt just a script. it describes a dependensy tree of sourcecode. Aug 01 22:11:16 Taco: there are a conversation on the openmoko-owners list about this now Aug 01 22:11:30 * Arachnid will have to find a linux box to flash from when he gets his Aug 01 22:11:38 I can always borrow my flatmate's laptop Aug 01 22:11:49 I don't suppose anyone's tried it in OSX yet? Aug 01 22:12:00 you could do it from a livecd Aug 01 22:12:02 Arachnid: DFU-Util runs on OSX Aug 01 22:12:05 dando-: are you in the right channel? Aug 01 22:12:14 i just copied the binary i386 copy of dfu-utils Aug 01 22:12:14 Arachnid: MokoNinja has a video about it on YouTube Aug 01 22:12:41 Psi_: true Aug 01 22:12:45 yay, flash finished Aug 01 22:12:50 LarstiQ: sorry about comlaining Aug 01 22:13:06 Psi_: My desktop PC is connected by wifi - not sure what linux livecd support for it is like, though Aug 01 22:13:21 LarstiQ: read something about build systems in the mailing list Aug 01 22:13:21 hm.. Aug 01 22:14:34 Psi_: the sites a bit behind doesnt even say yours has been delivered Aug 01 22:15:42 dando-: ah, it didn't strike me as relating to something in this channel, not following lists closely Aug 01 22:15:43 xzcvczx: That's promising. ;) Aug 01 22:15:51 http://wwwapps.ups.com/WebTracking/processInputRequest?Requester=UPSHome&loc=en_US&HTMLVersion=5.0&tracknum=1Z5VX0380451234660 <- ,ine Aug 01 22:15:56 er, mine Aug 01 22:16:22 ours all say exactly the same Aug 01 22:16:30 bar mine which didnt get stuck in customs Aug 01 22:16:37 going out of us Aug 01 22:16:53 hm Aug 01 22:16:59 *hopes it's on the plane to chch - or already here* Aug 01 22:17:17 yay, its booted into X Aug 01 22:17:26 Arachnid: the website doesnt say it is Aug 01 22:17:26 hi Aug 01 22:18:02 xzcvczx: the website doesn't say Psi's is delivered either though, does it? Aug 01 22:18:56 Arachnid: no but since it gets outsourced for the local delivery i assume that wont be updated til either middayish or 5pmish Aug 01 22:19:14 no luck making a call though Aug 01 22:19:20 CoreDump: how did you get your power figures - they are 50ma higher than mine Aug 01 22:19:29 * Psi_ reads more on the wiki Aug 01 22:19:30 LarstiQ: But be honest. Wouldn't it be better to just type make make install instead of ./configure make make install Aug 01 22:19:48 http://wwwapps.ups.com/WebTracking/processInputRequest?Requester=UPSHome&loc=en_US&HTMLVersion=5.0&tracknum=1Z5VX0380451234660 Aug 01 22:19:51 oops Aug 01 22:19:55 http://xkcd.com/281/ Aug 01 22:19:57 :) Aug 01 22:20:10 LarstiQ: ok you need another makefile for every achritecture Aug 01 22:20:11 xzcvczx: I've never had stuff delivered by UPS locally anyway Aug 01 22:20:16 I think it gets outsourced when it enters NZ Aug 01 22:20:20 dando-: wrt what? Splitting out discovery vs building vs installing makes sense to me Aug 01 22:20:40 yeah, thanks again woglinde and hrw, the workaround works :) Aug 01 22:21:11 Arachnid: i think they probably have a thing at chch and welly though Aug 01 22:21:26 the int'l airports well the real ones anyway Aug 01 22:21:27 LarstiQ: BSD doesn't do discovery at all i think. Aug 01 22:21:28 praps Aug 01 22:21:32 Stop trying to be depressing. ;) Aug 01 22:21:37 lol Aug 01 22:21:58 but maybe the courier is coming down your road now :P Aug 01 22:22:00 Writchie: I noticed. Dunno what's the diff is. Aug 01 22:22:22 LarstiQ: You download the makefile for your arch. Aug 01 22:22:39 which kernel did you use Aug 01 22:23:12 I used u-boot, rootfs and kernel from http://people.openmoko.org/~alphaone/images/ Aug 01 22:23:35 was your battery fully charged? Aug 01 22:23:38 dando-: that really is not an option. Aug 01 22:23:42 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Look_%26_Feel/de]] [[Carriers/ATT]] [[Talk:Carriers/ATT]] [[Wish_List_-_Hardware]] [[Getting_Started_with_your_Neo1973]] [[P1_Owners]] [[Bluetooth_Support]] [[Carriers]] [[Wishlist:Text_Input]] Aug 01 22:23:43 yes Aug 01 22:23:47 alphaone's kernel and rootfs works, even if it is a very basic 2007.2 om-system Aug 01 22:24:06 LarstiQ: why not. autotools destroy the best feature of make Aug 01 22:24:27 Oh, alphaone's images have basic 2007.2 support? Aug 01 22:24:41 drath_: I'm not a fan of autotools, but it does not destroy depdendency resolution and only rebuilding what you need to. Aug 01 22:24:59 they have the new gui, yes Aug 01 22:25:33 Hmm, I would want the packages of the new UI only... to update my neo. Aug 01 22:25:39 I don't want to reflash. Aug 01 22:26:08 LarstiQ: Are you sure about that? Test it Aug 01 22:26:23 for whatever reason OM runs dog slow on p0 and a lot better on p1 Aug 01 22:26:51 dando-: I am 100% sure of that. Aug 01 22:26:52 Arachnid: that xkcd link is topic worthy ;) Aug 01 22:27:09 LarstiQ: Use a Makefile generated by autotools and change just one file. you will see that every file is recompiled Aug 01 22:27:23 dando-: sigh, that just is not true. Aug 01 22:27:47 LarstiQ: maybe just my expiriense Aug 01 22:28:19 dando-: it may be that you have encountered this in some situations, either due to badly written local build parts, or due to actual need Aug 01 22:28:28 CoreDump|home - Huh? Really? cat /proc/cpuinfo and compare bogomips? Aug 01 22:28:33 say, by changing a header that is included by every file Aug 01 22:28:43 (I think, Bv03 is run at 200MHz, while Bv04 is run at 266.) Aug 01 22:29:01 LarstiQ: could be Aug 01 22:29:20 dando-: it depends... Aug 01 22:29:24 I left them at work ;) Aug 01 22:29:39 if it's a header, then yes, it's likely everything will have to be recompiled Aug 01 22:29:47 if it's just one little file, maybe not Aug 01 22:30:16 if that little file is made into an archive or a shared library, then more relinking is needed Aug 01 22:30:56 xkr47: indeed :P Aug 01 22:31:02 LarstiQ: maybe it is not possible to make complex dependency trees with autotools. Aug 01 22:31:12 Good night people. Aug 01 22:31:19 gn Aug 01 22:31:29 dando-: it is, I've got more than enough experience on that front Aug 01 22:31:38 n8 elrond Aug 01 22:31:49 I've updated bug #95 btw Aug 01 22:32:09 Huh... reading... Aug 01 22:32:19 LarstiQ: Do you have a good link about this? Aug 01 22:33:01 dando-: http://sourceware.org/autobook/ is where I'd start Aug 01 22:33:16 LarstiQ: Thx Aug 01 22:33:22 CoreDump|home - But /sys shows large values for you too, right? Aug 01 22:33:40 not exactly, no Aug 01 22:33:50 they are usually <1000 Aug 01 22:34:13 CoreDump|home - Hmm, fun. You don't have a bv03, right? Aug 01 22:34:21 I have Aug 01 22:34:39 but the measurements where done on bv4 Aug 01 22:34:51 CoreDump|home - Ahh. I only have a bv03. Aug 01 22:35:12 I'll test bv3 tomorrow Aug 01 22:35:18 nite Aug 01 22:35:19 Great. :-) Aug 01 22:35:24 n8 woglinde Aug 01 22:35:26 Goot night now for real. :-) Aug 01 22:35:30 ;) Aug 01 22:44:52 Here's something to plug your openmoko into ;) http://www.thinkgeek.com/computing/accessories/9223/ Aug 01 22:45:07 haha Aug 01 22:45:08 nice Aug 01 22:46:29 hi guys Aug 01 22:46:48 hey Xam, how goes? Aug 01 22:47:14 good, first time in the openmoko channel. Can't wait for this phone to go public Aug 01 22:48:30 well, it sort-of already is ;) Aug 01 22:49:00 ;) Aug 01 22:49:18 oh, anyone here running the qemu emulator of this phone? Aug 01 22:49:18 xamindar: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (and also SH1_FAQ, Neo1973, Developer_preview and Neo1973_Hardware#GTA01Bv4 pages) (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) Aug 01 22:49:46 oops, i can't ask questions here. :( Aug 01 22:49:56 Sure you can. :-) Aug 01 22:50:07 oh, i just got an autotrigger Aug 01 22:50:11 I got the emulator running a few weeks ago. Aug 01 22:50:17 The autotrigger is just a helper. Aug 01 22:50:25 Doesn't mean you can't ask. Aug 01 22:50:42 thanks Aug 01 22:50:44 And you won't get it again. Aug 01 22:51:06 i was wondering if there was a way to boot up the emulator with keyboard support. Aug 01 22:51:22 as far as i know i can't get an onscreen keyboard on it Aug 01 22:51:43 IIRC, you have to "tap" a certain part of the screen. Aug 01 22:51:53 I think it's in the top left. Aug 01 22:52:02 It's just a white box. Aug 01 22:52:06 I'm at work so it's not in front of me. Aug 01 22:52:12 2op "Completely unmarked. Aug 01 22:52:30 oh you are right lol Aug 01 22:52:31 thanks Aug 01 22:52:37 It's directly to the right of the openmoko logo. Aug 01 22:52:38 the white box opens it Aug 01 22:52:57 i guess that hasn't been finished? Aug 01 22:53:03 but it works thanks Aug 01 22:53:22 xamindar: That was your first test. Aug 01 22:53:34 They do it like that to keep the noobs from using it. :-) Aug 01 22:53:40 lol Aug 01 22:53:41 xamindar: there's a better keyboard if you click at the very right of that white box Aug 01 22:53:44 i failed then Aug 01 22:54:08 oh cool Aug 01 22:54:57 Arachnid: yours has gone a bit further on tracking Aug 01 22:55:24 It has? Aug 01 22:55:33 Still shows as 'in transit scan' in Auckland, here Aug 01 22:55:33 added a hub scan in auckland Aug 01 22:55:38 Oh, I see Aug 01 22:55:45 The ordering is out Aug 01 22:55:55 not reallty Aug 01 22:55:57 * Arachnid suspects he won't get it until tomorrow :/ Aug 01 22:56:09 Arachnid: i would be very surprised if you got it today Aug 01 22:56:15 hmm Aug 01 22:56:17 Yeah. Sucks. :/ Aug 01 22:56:34 Given the number of flights auckland->chch, there's no reason they _couldn't_ Aug 01 22:56:35 i think my battery got overdischarged Aug 01 22:56:49 power button does nothing Aug 01 22:57:11 Arachnid: but by the time it gets sorted onto said flight then sorted off said flight the last courier round would have already left there for the day Aug 01 22:57:14 is the recommended resuscitation 5-6 hours on USB? Aug 01 23:01:00 Probably. :/ Aug 01 23:01:28 heh i have no /var/log/messages is that normal? Aug 01 23:02:24 I put some time into documenting the startup of the window manager on the Neo here: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Window_Manager_Startup I would appreciate it if anyone could read through it and add to it. I hope it's a good start. Aug 01 23:03:11 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973_Battery_Charger Aug 01 23:03:13 oops Aug 01 23:03:18 i pressed the power button.. Aug 01 23:03:45 i guess i will leave it many more hours and try testing it again Aug 01 23:03:53 hrw - it looks like minimix-0.8.tar.gz has been stealth-changed - got checksum errors Aug 01 23:05:34 weez: have you removed the battery and put it back? Aug 01 23:06:25 don't know about the neo yet but on my zaurus if i ever issued the shutdown command it would not turn back on until i removed the battery and put it back. Aug 01 23:06:29 whats the current way to check what charge mode is active? Aug 01 23:07:18 the only way I know of is to build a test cable and measure it. Aug 01 23:07:32 heh Aug 01 23:08:01 Is there a wiki that will tell me what the difference is going to be between the GTA01 and GTA02? I'm still debating whether to try to get one now or wait Aug 01 23:08:14 http://xkcd.com/281/ Aug 01 23:08:20 Someone should put that in the topic. Aug 01 23:08:45 xamindar: there are pages on the wiki, but there are no 01's left - so the only question is how long you'll be waiting. Aug 01 23:08:56 accelerometers, video accel, mono sound Aug 01 23:09:17 and a few downgrades Aug 01 23:09:18 wifi Aug 01 23:09:18 Currently sold Neo1973 GTA01B_v04 (P1) doesn't have WiFi, GTA02 (P2) which is scheduled for October will have WiFi with free (libre) drivers (Atheros AR6K): http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ#Q:_What_is_the_rationale_behind_the_exclusion_of_WiFi.3F Aug 01 23:09:30 oh, i am still a little confuset i guess. I thought the hardware would be different in some way. Aug 01 23:09:42 ahh, ok Aug 01 23:10:11 thanks Aug 01 23:10:27 Wifi is rather a large thing, as is the video accel Aug 01 23:10:37 psi: you can look for a line like this : usb0: full speed config #1: 500 mA, Ethernet Gadget, using CDC Ethernet in /val/log/messages on your HOST Aug 01 23:10:43 onboard NAND to 256MB Aug 01 23:11:07 i must have spent an hour on the wiki last night and couldn't find that lol Aug 01 23:11:27 The wiki could do with better organisation. Aug 01 23:11:27 b1303s, yeah saw that, but i dont have a /var/log/messages Aug 01 23:11:51 only got wtmp in /var/log/ Aug 01 23:12:13 hmm, i came to work today and there they were: two black boxes with neos in them ;) Aug 01 23:12:23 :) Aug 01 23:12:37 turns out the secretary forgot about the packet - they already arrived on monday Aug 01 23:12:39 look on your host not on your neo Aug 01 23:12:49 ah Aug 01 23:12:51 i see Aug 01 23:14:19 Psi_: how big are the boxes they come in Aug 01 23:14:29 Psi_: i have heard they are a bit ott Aug 01 23:15:07 * xzcvczx needs to get things done today but doesnt dare leave the house Aug 01 23:15:12 21cm cubed Aug 01 23:16:28 openmoko: 03alphaone * r2601 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/artwork/themes/openmoko-standard-2/matchbox/theme.xml: Make gradient smaller and increase the panel size Aug 01 23:19:04 hey Aug 01 23:22:11 SpeedEvil: watcha waiting for :) Aug 01 23:22:41 jaebird: I've done a fairly substantial amount. Aug 01 23:24:42 At the moment I'm hacking on the kernel. Aug 01 23:25:02 Just minor fixes. Aug 01 23:30:32 any c gurus in the house? Aug 01 23:30:35 hi Aug 01 23:30:49 what is the logo of open moko showing? Aug 01 23:30:50 brianb: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (and also SH1_FAQ, Neo1973, Developer_preview and Neo1973_Hardware#GTA01Bv4 pages) (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) Aug 01 23:31:03 probably a stupid question but maybe someone can help me Aug 01 23:32:34 gchar buf[15]; sprintf(buf, "%i characters..", 15); return buf; Aug 01 23:33:06 so Aug 01 23:33:10 I have functions doing stuff like that, but I can't figure out the correct return type. Aug 01 23:33:12 no ATT support now eh Aug 01 23:33:23 gchar* gives an error Aug 01 23:33:31 sooooo Aug 01 23:33:35 my phone wont turn on anymore Aug 01 23:33:41 uh oh Aug 01 23:33:53 the battery went completely dead (aka i didn't charge it) and now it wont turn on at all Aug 01 23:34:09 i just went and got a sim card too, blah Aug 01 23:34:28 daMaestro: I remember someone on the mailing list had that problem and there was a solution.. don't remember off hand though Aug 01 23:34:41 which list? Aug 01 23:34:45 i hope there is a solution, this sucks Aug 01 23:34:50 I don't know Aug 01 23:35:06 do you have an internet tablet? you could recharge with that Aug 01 23:35:16 i don't Aug 01 23:35:22 all i have is the usb cable Aug 01 23:35:34 i've left it for about 30 minutes... and it still wont turn on Aug 01 23:35:37 daMaestro, put the battery in, plug the usb cable in, let it slow-charge for a couple of hours, turn on Aug 01 23:35:55 Well, there's definitely _a_ solution Aug 01 23:36:00 so, it might take a couple of hours? Aug 01 23:36:04 Worst case you could get another battery to get it started Aug 01 23:36:14 But I'd suggest trying mjr's one first ;) Aug 01 23:36:20 it's just a figure out of my ass, I'm not sure how long it can take, but it should work eventually Aug 01 23:36:26 nobody has any suggestions for my c problems? Aug 01 23:37:06 mrface: Do you have "#include " at the beginning of your file? Aug 01 23:37:19 And are you using libtool to make sure you have the correct include directories? Aug 01 23:37:40 Oh. Also, that's going to fail horribly even when it does compile - you're trying to return a pointer to something allocated on the stack. :) Aug 01 23:38:24 You need to either have the calling function pass in a buffer (and a length, and make sure you don't/can't overrun it), or you need to dynamically allocate (malloc) the memory you return Aug 01 23:39:33 I'm getting a build error since I've updated today. Complains about a missing "split_by_variant.sh" when building the uboot image. Aug 01 23:39:38 Any ideas? Aug 01 23:41:43 http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=212 Aug 01 23:43:00 * ferric yawns Aug 01 23:44:00 hmm, that's with v3 though Aug 01 23:45:24 Hey hey Aug 01 23:45:46 I've got openmoko phone.having some trouble turning it on though.. Aug 01 23:47:10 Can't get it to turn on.. Aug 01 23:48:16 are you holding the power button for at least 5 seconds? Aug 01 23:48:36 Arachnid: I hate malloc Aug 01 23:49:07 mrface: Hate it or not, you can't return a pointer to something you allocated on the stack. Aug 01 23:49:21 If you want to avoid malloc, allocate the buffer on the stack of the calling function and pass it in Aug 01 23:50:18 maybe I'll try that, although it makes extra working for the caller which I don't like Aug 01 23:50:19 yes Aug 01 23:50:23 this is a tough call Aug 01 23:50:37 mrface: The alternative is malloc, in which case the caller has to free it. Aug 01 23:50:38 so, I'm not using libtool, is that a problem? Aug 01 23:50:47 You should be using libtool Aug 01 23:50:52 mwhahahah Aug 01 23:50:54 You also need to include glib.h, if you're not already Aug 01 23:50:58 ok, so i got it to boot Aug 01 23:50:58 oh ok Aug 01 23:51:06 yeah, glib.h is included Aug 01 23:51:29 thanks a lot dude, I guess I better figure out how to use libtool Aug 01 23:51:31 i borrowed my friends battery... forced it to make contact for about a minute (batter was smaller but same voltage) Aug 01 23:51:35 Oops, my mistake Aug 01 23:51:39 glib uses pkg-config Aug 01 23:51:40 http://groups.google.com/groups/sqlalchemy Aug 01 23:51:43 oops Aug 01 23:51:47 http://developer.gnome.org/doc/API/2.0/glib/glib-compiling.html Aug 01 23:51:49 didn't boot... so i gave up... plugged my batter back in and plugged into a usb 1.1 port, and now it has booted Aug 01 23:52:01 ^ see there for how to configure your makefile to build and link against glib Aug 01 23:52:06 anyways.. that battery issue is *really* *REAALLLYYYY* bad Aug 01 23:52:15 * daMaestro -1 neo1973 Aug 01 23:52:44 FIC needs to send everyone charges that will allow us to get out of this horrible issue, or an extra battery. Aug 01 23:53:02 s/charges/chargers/ Aug 01 23:53:04 daMaestro meant: FIC needs to send everyone chargers that will allow us to get out of this horrible issue, or an extra battery. Aug 01 23:53:11 cool, that's really helpful Aug 01 23:53:11 Some sort of fix is needed, yes Aug 01 23:53:25 i was scared i broke it already Aug 01 23:53:28 My motorola charges over USB, but has a standalone charger that works even if it's dead Aug 01 23:53:40 although you weren't very patient with the usb trickle charging attempt... Aug 01 23:53:44 Though did you establish if leaving it on USB1.1 for long enough would work? Aug 01 23:53:47 yea, i had tried a motorola charger @ tmobile Aug 01 23:53:54 Arachnid: is there a similar method for using gconf? Aug 01 23:53:56 It may be able to trickle-charge Aug 01 23:54:08 mrface: No idea, sorry Aug 01 23:54:14 Agent_X, did you try powering on into boot mode? (holding the AUX button and power button for 5+ seconds) Aug 01 23:54:18 ok, thanks anyway Aug 01 23:54:22 What's the problem with using the method outlined in the glib manual? Aug 01 23:54:29 Arachnid: AFAIK, they also have a way of detecting a "dumb" charger, which gives more than the 500mA... Aug 01 23:54:49 * cesarb wonders if the trick is on that CEA standard he's heard of Aug 01 23:54:52 cesarb: Last I saw, they were talking about that, but hadn't implemented it yet Aug 01 23:55:06 but that'd only work if it's booted anyway Aug 01 23:55:18 the Neo doesn't currently AFAIK detect a dumb charger, so a wall charger would just trickle charge anyway Aug 01 23:55:26 ello moko nuts Aug 01 23:55:35 mrface: gconf doesn't sound like it's the right tool anyway: "GConf is a system for storing application preferences. It is intended for user preferences; not configuration of something like Apache, or arbitrary data storage." Aug 01 23:56:31 arcanericky: yep good old /etc Aug 01 23:56:47 Arachnid: it's possible that the PMU Motorola uses is able to detect the dumb charger (and perhaps only it) when without battery power Aug 01 23:56:59 oops meant for Arachnid: Aug 01 23:57:32 cesarb: I think it must, yes Aug 01 23:58:08 Either that or the dumb charger makes use of the spare 5th pin on the mini USB plug Aug 01 23:58:30 AIUI. Aug 01 23:58:45 arachnid: my program has user preferences. I think you're right the glib method will probably work fine Aug 01 23:59:40 The 'proper' neo charger has 48K from the 5th pin to ground. Aug 02 00:00:40 mrface: These are build options, not user preferences, though Aug 02 00:01:33 I find bitbake baffling. Am I right in thinking that bitbake meta files do not take the place of a Makefile? Aug 02 00:02:00 I understand that but I need gconf so I will use pkg-config to find out what the build options are, right? Aug 02 00:02:12 Oh, right, I see what you mean Aug 02 00:02:21 I don't know - check the gconfig manual to see if it uses pkg-config Aug 02 00:02:45 by the way, make sure you put pkg-config into your build script, rather than running it and copying the results Aug 02 00:02:52 that way it'll run on any system with glib, not just yours Aug 02 00:03:16 oh that's very clever. thanks Aug 02 00:03:30 I will do that Aug 02 00:05:43 SpeedEvil: j/k...you are the edit bot, just look at the wiki history! Aug 02 00:08:47 Arachnid: AFAIK, the motorola dumb charger uses both a magic resistor value in the ID pin and a special configuration of the D pins Aug 02 00:11:08 ah Aug 02 00:11:31 It would've been nice if the Neo supported something like that Aug 02 00:14:25 Arachnid: It would've broken the USB specs, though Aug 02 00:15:42 abraxa_: Really? Even with that extra pin to work with? Aug 02 00:16:36 openmoko: 03rwhitby * r107 10mokomakefile/trunk/Makefile: mkdosfs is in /sbin, which won't be in most user's paths Aug 02 00:16:40 Arachnid: There was a long debate about that on the hardware list Aug 02 00:16:50 abraxa_: not really, as USB uses only floating and IIRC ground on the ID pin Aug 02 00:17:19 abraxa_: and you keep having 5V on the 5V pin, so it will not confuse "normal" devices Aug 02 00:17:52 Thing is, users won't see "strictly usb compliant", they'll see "my phone is dead and I can't charge it" Aug 02 00:18:33 abraxa_: I believe the tricks would be explained on CEA-936-A, but I did not find a copy of the specification anywhere (and the best explanations of it I could find are on some misc datasheets) Aug 02 00:20:12 hmm, where can I see the degree of battery fullness (in cli)? Aug 02 00:23:42 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Window_Manager_Startup]] [[Disassembling_Neo1973]] [[Flashing_openmoko]] [[Getting_Started_with_your_Neo1973]] [[Carriers/ATT]] [[P1_Owners]] [[Carriers/TMobile]] [[Look_%26_Feel/de]] Aug 02 00:25:57 mjr: my wild guess: somewhere under /proc/acpi/battery/.. Aug 02 00:27:13 actually seems /proc/apm, but doesn't say when it's charging Aug 02 00:27:16 ah well Aug 02 00:27:28 does it give battery voltage? Aug 02 00:27:57 in /sys/devices/platform/s3c2410-i2c/i2c-0/0-0008 there are a lot of voltage files :] Aug 02 00:28:01 oh wait, battvolt Aug 02 00:28:13 4189 Aug 02 00:29:41 Wow. Careful around the contacts. ;) Aug 02 00:30:06 what, did you lick the battery? Aug 02 00:31:24 4189 indicates it's either in float charge mode, or nearly there. Almost fully charged. Aug 02 00:31:53 mjr: No, just speculating that if it's 4189 volts, you should stay away from the contacts. ;) Aug 02 00:32:41 yeah, it was just about done methinks Aug 02 00:42:27 so, where is the info on the mixer levels script? Aug 02 00:42:35 i want to try to actually make a call today Aug 02 00:42:36 ;-) Aug 02 00:48:16 http://www.bugblogger.com/2007/07/greetings-from-.html Aug 02 00:48:25 wow. i wonder if they'll make cellphones Aug 02 00:52:30 sooo, where is the wiki page for the networking? does it have the needed information for doing static routes when there are conflicting networks? Aug 02 00:52:42 route add -host 192.168.0.202 usb0 Aug 02 00:52:46 needs to be added, if not Aug 02 01:03:59 hm.. NO CARRIER Aug 02 01:04:18 * Psi_ goes back and reads more stuff from the wiki Aug 02 01:05:46 Psi_, links? Aug 02 01:05:54 of? Aug 02 01:05:58 Psi_, i need to read about how to get my speaker(s) working Aug 02 01:06:00 so i can make calls Aug 02 01:06:18 i'd also like to check and make sure the networking howto has what is needed to add a static route to the phone Aug 02 01:06:49 i just bridged it to my home network Aug 02 01:06:55 aka, i'm on wifi right now that has a default route that interferes with the usb device Aug 02 01:06:57 was easier than setting up routing Aug 02 01:07:12 hmm.. so then you just ran dhclient on the phone? Aug 02 01:07:29 na, had to assign ip manually Aug 02 01:07:40 no DNS atm tho Aug 02 01:07:53 oh, blah; NetworkManager is going to screw up my bridge, i already know that Aug 02 01:08:02 i dunno where to add that yet, havnt really investigated it, only got my phone like 3 hours ago Aug 02 01:08:09 where? the dns? Aug 02 01:08:15 yeah Aug 02 01:08:16 /etc/resolv.conf sounds logical Aug 02 01:08:30 except there is no file of that name there :P Aug 02 01:08:36 yeah nsswitch says it is to use files Aug 02 01:08:38 well add it Aug 02 01:09:00 have you done that? Aug 02 01:09:15 echo nameserver 192.168.0.1 > /etc/resolv.conf Aug 02 01:09:22 or whatever your NS is Aug 02 01:09:30 well let me see if it picked up my change Aug 02 01:09:31 hold on Aug 02 01:10:20 hmm well there is no dig, and the nslookup provided by busy box doesn't have what i was looking for Aug 02 01:10:37 hehe how do you get out of cu Aug 02 01:10:41 ctrl C doesnt work Aug 02 01:10:47 ctrl-\ ? Aug 02 01:10:54 ctrl-z and then kill it Aug 02 01:10:54 ? Aug 02 01:11:08 tried them Aug 02 01:12:03 hmm never used cu Aug 02 01:12:14 uucp client? Aug 02 01:12:18 yep Aug 02 01:12:37 yeah, i just checked cu --help ... but i really have no idea Aug 02 01:15:07 what a weird command Aug 02 01:15:09 its ~. Aug 02 01:16:07 AFter a newline Aug 02 01:16:16 I've never typed it accidentally, which indicates that it works Aug 02 01:19:54 libgsmd-tool -m shell ... well i was able to make a take a call via the shell Aug 02 01:20:00 time to actually get the speaker and mic going Aug 02 01:20:19 what did you use to make the call? Aug 02 01:20:49 * Psi_ looks up libgsmd-tool Aug 02 01:21:52 Psi_: what carrier SIM? Aug 02 01:22:05 vodafone NZ Aug 02 01:22:09 prepay sim Aug 02 01:22:16 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Gsmd Aug 02 01:22:35 jaebird, i got a tmobile sim today... it works Aug 02 01:22:52 I tried, but did not find any in my region... Aug 02 01:23:02 jaebird, do you see my message earlier about the bug report per the gsm modem and att? Aug 02 01:23:22 daMaestro: think so...bug 666? Aug 02 01:23:37 yup Aug 02 01:23:40 daMaestro, thanks, dns is working :) Aug 02 01:23:49 yes...thanks, I added my comment to the bug Aug 02 01:24:20 daMastro: how much did it run you...the prepay? Aug 02 01:24:44 huh? Aug 02 01:24:51 its the sim out of my main phone Aug 02 01:25:17 its pretty old, could even be the wrong voltage or something Aug 02 01:25:51 Psi_, can you AT+CIMI Aug 02 01:26:00 Psi_, ;-) Aug 02 01:26:01 * Psi_ tries Aug 02 01:26:28 use the: libgsmd-tool -m atcmd Aug 02 01:26:47 daMaestro: wrong name above...how much for the mins and activation? Aug 02 01:27:27 jaebird, no Aug 02 01:27:43 oooh... Aug 02 01:28:01 jaebird, well i just went to a store i knew someone, but it was $10 to activate (with a sim) and 10 "free" minutes Aug 02 01:28:11 so for $10 you get a sim that you can make 10 calls with Aug 02 01:28:11 lol Aug 02 01:28:20 jaebird, what does AT+CIMI mean? Aug 02 01:28:22 Psi_: for us poor at&t users that is a bad sign for SIM cards not compatible Aug 02 01:28:47 well this sim has worked in all the phones ive tried it in Aug 02 01:28:49 daMaestro: that is what i need...somebody wanted 55 bucks for 30 min! Aug 02 01:29:18 wow Aug 02 01:29:29 daMaestro: I was at the store Aug 02 01:29:32 defiantly worked in both alcatel / nokia phones Aug 02 01:29:33 yeah, i'm most likely going to add $100 which will give me 1000 minutes Aug 02 01:29:44 sagacis, ? Aug 02 01:29:45 daMaestro: use their flex plan Aug 02 01:29:55 meh, i don't really like tmobile Aug 02 01:30:00 you can't add data plans to prepay Aug 02 01:30:09 I went to the tmobile store and talked to them about the options Aug 02 01:30:11 so i'm going with att, when we frigging get the firmware fix Aug 02 01:30:25 The flex plan is pay-as-you-go Aug 02 01:30:26 is there anything else i need to do other than power_on to 1 Aug 02 01:30:38 1000 minutes for $40 Aug 02 01:30:56 sagacis|livingrm, i know.. but add your comments to http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Carriers/Tmobile Aug 02 01:31:12 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Carriers/TMobile Aug 02 01:31:12 sorry Aug 02 01:31:13 But, he wanted to charge me $20 for the sim card, so that was $60 Aug 02 01:31:28 i got activation and 10 minutes for $10 Aug 02 01:31:38 I may have to move out of the living room to use a decent keyboard.... Aug 02 01:31:41 daMaestro: firmware?? if it is the calypso...rma time Aug 02 01:31:50 jaebird, it is p1 Aug 02 01:31:53 Yeah, you make me sick ;-) Aug 02 01:32:17 jaebird, are we really going to get a "free" rma that will fix this lame ass issue? Aug 02 01:32:24 hey guys, what dev does the micro sd show up as? Aug 02 01:32:31 /media/card Aug 02 01:32:32 (issue being that att sucks and uses random on sim protection) Aug 02 01:32:34 dont know Aug 02 01:32:49 and will the RMA, if it happens, occur in a timeframe that get you a working phone before the P2 units ship? Aug 02 01:32:54 sagacis|livingrm: thats where it should mount, but it didnt Aug 02 01:32:57 mwester, exactly Aug 02 01:32:58 like i mentioned earlier...my chinamobile unlocked motorola e2 works fine Aug 02 01:33:10 so it can't be a _special_ lock Aug 02 01:33:28 it is just some random gsm security/spec issue that TI needs to fix Aug 02 01:33:43 and the device that it should get mounted (i think its /dev/mmcsomething) isnt there Aug 02 01:33:47 unfortunately if it is a firmware mod in the modem...we will be sol for a _long_ time Aug 02 01:33:54 jaebird, from what has been linked, it sounds like SIM Sentry ... but i don't know for sure Aug 02 01:34:00 think about the shipping from this last time :) Aug 02 01:34:07 yeah, this is true Aug 02 01:34:23 ok... so does anyone know where the script is to get my sound working? Aug 02 01:34:25 maybe we will have the option to upgrade to P2 at a special price :) Aug 02 01:34:27 heh Aug 02 01:34:30 so i can actually make a real call and talk with my neo? Aug 02 01:34:43 send it back with 150 bucks or something Aug 02 01:34:51 i mean it's cool to see all the shell reponses and network talk... but i want to use voice... lol Aug 02 01:34:57 Can the OpenMoko punch through the lack of cell tower reception here in Minneapolis? Aug 02 01:35:01 i can limp along with t-mobile or something till oct Aug 02 01:35:11 navaburo: carefully check your sd card insertion. Aug 02 01:35:24 i wasn't planning on using as my _real_ phone for awhile Aug 02 01:35:56 alsactl .... Aug 02 01:36:30 daMaestro: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Manually_using_GSM Aug 02 01:36:38 search for alsactl on that page Aug 02 01:36:53 thanks Aug 02 01:36:57 i was looking at alsamixer Aug 02 01:37:10 yeah...that is for playing cool tunes :) Aug 02 01:37:19 which i did this afternoon Aug 02 01:37:39 although ssh with pc is not a very portable solution Aug 02 01:38:06 Q_Continuum: always add a 8:1 gain antenna Aug 02 01:38:33 yeah, that mmc connector dealeo is very scary at first Aug 02 01:39:05 linux_galore, I'm referring to the fact that Interstate 35W's bridge collapsed 3 hours ago...should be all over the news - I live 5 blocks away, and am not bothering to turn on my phone. Aug 02 01:39:11 wget http://opensource.wolfsonmicro.com/~gg/gsmheadset.working.state is b0rked Aug 02 01:39:14 does anyone have the new link Aug 02 01:39:15 Q_Continuum: get a HF stubby antenna for a truck thats how I do it for remote areas here in AU, works a treat Aug 02 01:39:16 it took me awhile to understand that you have to slide the card into the hinged door Aug 02 01:39:34 Q_Continuum: aah sorry Aug 02 01:39:52 more of a "when emergencies happen..how can I overpower everyone else's phone for a channel?" lol Aug 02 01:39:58 Any SVN wizards around? I have a question about an SVN import Aug 02 01:40:00 then, when inserting sim, understood it was identical Aug 02 01:40:18 Q_Continuum: you cant, its a first serv first some setup with most cells Aug 02 01:40:22 * Psi_ gives his sim a clean Aug 02 01:40:25 wonder what poor ol sap is going to bust it trying to figure it out? :( Aug 02 01:40:34 abraxa_: you might try #svn Aug 02 01:40:38 s/some/come Aug 02 01:41:27 Q_Continuum: emergency services have an override code though built into their sims Aug 02 01:41:35 daMaestro: it is on the flash Aug 02 01:41:51 its all the gawkers trying to see...they're killing the cell towers, AND my parking >.< Aug 02 01:41:55 alsactl -f /etc/alsa/gsmhandset.state Aug 02 01:42:06 Q_Continuum: poor you Aug 02 01:42:10 Wow! looking at the bridge collapse Aug 02 01:42:28 That's what they do in any emergency -- the gawkers get in the way of the emergency teams doing their work. Aug 02 01:42:35 * Q_Continuum lives ~7 blocks NW from said bridge, and has no cell service Aug 02 01:42:45 Q_Continuum: omg! Aug 02 01:42:52 During their one announcement, they basically told everyone to GTFO. Aug 02 01:42:52 daMaestro: I used the state on the image already. It worked OK for me. Aug 02 01:42:52 * jaebird likes to call home and give play by play during emergencies! Aug 02 01:43:10 cool.. yes i didn't know it was already there Aug 02 01:43:11 thanks. Aug 02 01:43:12 jaebird, you'd be on the list I'm inclined to go beat outside my house lol Aug 02 01:43:31 HL/HL2 style :D Aug 02 01:43:39 Q_Continuum: as long as we can set an open line up for people to listen :) Aug 02 01:43:51 one. Aug 02 01:43:58 via VOIP to a line far outside the area. Aug 02 01:44:04 :D Aug 02 01:44:11 word Aug 02 01:44:11 don-o: Thanks, trying my luck Aug 02 01:45:16 we should try to talk cariers into allowing free moko to moko phone calls :) Aug 02 01:45:37 then we could test call folks, heh Aug 02 01:46:17 Before long, we'll all be on TMobile, so we should get their family plan Aug 02 01:46:27 arghhhh Aug 02 01:46:30 ok... wellllll Aug 02 01:46:35 I was listening to a podcast last year and they were talking about the USA and economics and one scientist noted that the USA has allot of old decaying bridges that are due for upgrades and no one has the money to fix them. Aug 02 01:46:42 isn't there tagline..."get more" Aug 02 01:46:43 now my phone just beeps really loud at me when i place a call Aug 02 01:47:32 linux_galore: yes, that's true: Chicago has a number of them. But this bridge in MN was not considered that old, and was just inspected two or three years ago. Somebody messed up, big. :( Aug 02 01:47:49 After the war the USA went on a big highway and bridge building frenzy and now the US gov has hundreds of bridges that need serious maintenance Aug 02 01:48:00 daMaestro: You got the sound working, what more do you want? Aug 02 01:48:10 sagacis, well.. i can't actually make a phone call Aug 02 01:48:17 it just beeps, loudly Aug 02 01:48:41 That's OK. I can't make a call either, without swiping my wife's sim card Aug 02 01:48:55 mwester: yeah but being inspected doesnt mean it doesnt need maintenance Aug 02 01:49:17 That's why I said sombody messed up. Aug 02 01:49:51 mwester: no i dare say they didnt have enough money so they fudged it Aug 02 01:50:32 The bridge was undergoing maintenance Aug 02 01:50:39 according to AP Aug 02 01:50:51 mwester: ie we will put it on next years budget, few years of this and you can see what hapens Aug 02 01:51:05 Hmm... How do I turn off the external speakers so only the headset is playing? Aug 02 01:51:09 openmoko: 03abraxa * r2602 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-mediaplayer/ (71 files in 3 dirs): Import of current media player development Aug 02 01:51:12 hmm...i just drove over that river last night, diff bridge tho Aug 02 01:51:51 sagacis: poke them with a needle Aug 02 01:52:02 That would work once Aug 02 01:52:16 its a good lesson, if a bridge in the USA is getting repaired is must seriously be stuffed Aug 02 01:52:23 it* Aug 02 01:54:05 Oh well the media now have a week of finger pointing on the front page and "the baby who survived the bridge collapse" stories Aug 02 01:54:20 and 101 lucky I was late for work stories Aug 02 01:55:32 finnished of by the "God told me not to go to work today" story Aug 02 01:55:54 Aug 02 01:56:03 sagacis|livingrm: I checked the sd card, looked out of alignment, booting now Aug 02 01:56:07 And a few "Wife calls husband -- where are you, honey? --I'm on the bridge, traffic jam is pretty bad!" cheater unmasked stories. Aug 02 01:57:04 what is going on with the new openmoko theme and apps that mokoninja showed? Aug 02 01:57:24 jaebird: the Poko stuff ? Aug 02 01:57:34 is this a buildable image that can be grabbed from svn? Aug 02 01:57:42 sudoku :) Aug 02 01:58:15 is the application manager going to have public repos that we can install from? Aug 02 01:58:34 linux_galore: Poko? Aug 02 02:02:58 jaebird: The apps are already on SVN under 2007.2 Aug 02 02:07:22 is AT+CPIN="...." your pin code Aug 02 02:08:38 yep, it is Aug 02 02:08:56 that wasnt very obvious on the wiki Aug 02 02:10:47 Psi_, can you AT+CIMI <- yes that is working now\ Aug 02 02:12:47 hm.. thats weird, i can answer a call, but not make one Aug 02 02:13:12 i guess the fact that i can answer a call means that my sim is working and the GSM part is working too :) Aug 02 02:13:22 <- happy Aug 02 02:14:52 yay. figured that out Aug 02 02:15:25 needs to have the + in the number or it doesnt work here Aug 02 02:15:36 wiki example doesnt have a + Aug 02 02:18:55 hmmm...anyone know of a changelog on uboot? tried searching bugzilla, found one possible bug, but doesn't look closed Aug 02 02:23:42 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Wishlist:custum_input_on_computer]] [[Carriers/TMobile]] [[MacOS_X]] [[MokoMakefile]] Aug 02 02:24:05 Woo! Neo arrived Aug 02 02:24:25 I foolishly got a useless SIM card though. Aug 02 02:25:21 hey all Aug 02 02:27:45 root@fic-gta01:~$ alsactl -f /etc/alsa/gsmheadset.working.state restore Aug 02 02:27:46 No state is present for card neo1973 Aug 02 02:27:51 hmm.. so.. what went wrong? Aug 02 02:29:42 hmm.. so i can get calls to go out and come in, but i have yet to figure out how to make it so i can actually hear the call and talk during it Aug 02 02:29:54 dumb question, but is gsmheadset.working.state in that directory? I don't have that file Aug 02 02:30:09 * daMaestro checks Aug 02 02:30:48 hmm it exists, but is empty Aug 02 02:31:02 :( Aug 02 02:32:17 i dunno if this is the correct one to use but http://opensource.wolfsonmicro.com/~gg/neo1973/gsmheadset.working.state Aug 02 02:32:55 i just tried to get alsa working and i got "no soundcards found" hehe Aug 02 02:32:57 quick question, does the wifi exist in the qemu vm? I doubt it... Aug 02 02:35:16 Psi_, ahh yes.. i just found that also Aug 02 02:35:22 http://opensource.wolfsonmicro.com/~gg/neo1973/ is the new location Aug 02 02:37:17 What's in the uboot? Aug 02 02:41:29 moko-bunny / sagacis: Are you two concerned with uboot because you can't get it to compile any longer either? Aug 02 02:41:40 new neo owners Aug 02 02:41:49 be careful about powering down your neo Aug 02 02:41:52 daMaestro, im thinking you might have to turn the soundcard on first, but im not sure how yet Aug 02 02:42:03 i think i left mine in suspend and killed the battery Aug 02 02:42:12 unsuccessful in reviving it yet Aug 02 02:42:24 I was wondering what has changed between r8 (in my phone) and r11 what I built Aug 02 02:42:32 oh boy weez, that sucks Aug 02 02:42:35 arcanericky, yes and no. I couldn't get it compile so I went back to the image. I'm really trying to get OM2007.2 to compile an fs image Aug 02 02:42:35 weez, i just had that happen Aug 02 02:42:44 daMaestro, what did you do? Aug 02 02:42:50 weez, just charge it Aug 02 02:42:52 weez, it took finding another battery to get it started (to uboot) and then it started charging over usb Aug 02 02:42:53 I did that yesterday Aug 02 02:43:02 ...especially since I can't seem to get it to flash the kernel now :( Aug 02 02:43:04 I just plugged in the usb and waited Aug 02 02:43:10 i was stupid Aug 02 02:43:14 sagacis: Yes, it compiled as of Monday (I think) but today when I updated, I couldn't get it to compile. I think someone broke the repository. :( Aug 02 02:43:20 i plugged into usb and waited about 2 hours or so Aug 02 02:43:24 then i pressed power on Aug 02 02:43:27 nothing Aug 02 02:43:29 That's what I did Aug 02 02:43:39 Remember, power on take many seconds Aug 02 02:43:41 weez, so what do you recommend, take the battery out when not using the phone Aug 02 02:43:41 now even though its plugged into USB it is not getting warm as it previously was Aug 02 02:43:45 s/take/takes Aug 02 02:43:51 Psi_, i dunno Aug 02 02:44:06 * sagacis looks around for the bot Aug 02 02:44:11 do you think yours discharged the battery below min volts ? Aug 02 02:44:12 Psi_, latest build would never power off, but would get stuck on the screen Aug 02 02:44:12 arcanericky: I just updated and built...and it didn't touch my Jul30 uboot Aug 02 02:44:29 Psi_, with a little message saying shutting down Aug 02 02:44:42 I think i need to pull the battery out and check it with a voltmeter Aug 02 02:44:49 moko-bunny: Ok - I gave up and I'm starting the build completely from scratch again. There goes another two nights. Aug 02 02:45:15 arcanericky: bummer :( yeah, it takes forever to build Aug 02 02:45:31 lemme try one more update and see if anything changes Aug 02 02:45:44 I used the 28 july image OK Aug 02 02:45:48 from the buildhost Aug 02 02:45:58 I haven't successfully flashed one of my images yet Aug 02 02:46:24 so, what might cause libgsmd-tool -m shell calling to work, but not the dialer Aug 02 02:46:32 gsmd already crashed, so i restarted it Aug 02 02:46:59 i just want to hear my phone actually ringing a call.. and voice ;-) Aug 02 02:47:01 hehe, I think someone just checked in mediaplayer :) Aug 02 02:47:09 moko-bunny, yup Aug 02 02:47:27 abraxa did Aug 02 02:47:32 cool :D Aug 02 02:47:38 openmoko: abraxa * r2602 /trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-mediaplayer/ (71 files in 3 dirs): Import of current media player development Aug 02 02:47:44 right before you joined Aug 02 02:48:03 well...we'll see if it builds :) Aug 02 02:48:08 moko-bunny: Yeah but it's nowhere near complete yet - I'll keep committing until it is ;) Aug 02 02:48:25 :) Aug 02 02:48:43 what files can it play abraxa? Aug 02 02:49:01 ZerothCloned: It makes use of gstreamer so you can toss it anything gstreamer can handle Aug 02 02:49:36 I'm clueless...does that include video or just audio? Aug 02 02:49:41 Both Aug 02 02:49:49 :rock on: Aug 02 02:50:01 The stylus-based media player is dead Aug 02 02:50:01 just whats needed for OM Aug 02 02:50:08 what does yours do? Aug 02 02:50:34 ZerothCloned: Currently I'm focusing on audio but it'll handle both audio and video in the long run Aug 02 02:51:13 built successfully :) Aug 02 02:51:19 yay! Aug 02 02:52:22 so, i'm wondering if anyone has been able to actually hear the phone make a call... i mean i can use the shell to make and take calls.. but i never hear anything Aug 02 02:52:24 now if I can get the dang thing to flash...it's being persnickity...gonna try taking out my SD card...maybe moko doesn't like Jethro Tull Aug 02 02:52:38 as someone with an EE degree, i am embarrassed to ask.. but I have an old hand me down volt meter here and I don't know whats going on.. Aug 02 02:53:00 daMaestro, what happens when you use alsactl, does it come back with no soundcards found? Aug 02 02:53:17 when I measure the voltage accross the + - terminals on the battery the display on the voltmeter changes to 1. which I assume means something Aug 02 02:53:18 no, i pulled the two "working" scripts from the new location Aug 02 02:53:25 favoring the "handset" one Aug 02 02:53:31 i wonder if it is out of range... Aug 02 02:53:32 daMaestro: I did get one call received successfully today...used the gsmheadset.state that was in joe's 0728 build Aug 02 02:53:47 moko-bunny, did you use the handset or the headset? Aug 02 02:53:58 doh :P Aug 02 02:54:01 that was it Aug 02 02:54:31 i thought it was doing something funny on the 20 V setting so I put it down to 2 thinking the voltage was really low... Aug 02 02:54:46 but i am measuring 3.68 Aug 02 02:54:48 hmmm Aug 02 02:55:10 weez: Blame the weather ;) Aug 02 02:55:17 woohoo Aug 02 02:55:22 ok, that time it worked... Aug 02 02:55:27 weez: we totally uncharged ours once to the point where it was too flat to begin the charging process Aug 02 02:55:30 i don't know what changed since last time Aug 02 02:55:35 daMaestro: I'm emailing at&t and asking for a working sim card Aug 02 02:55:38 but i will be more careful next time... Aug 02 02:55:41 I'm going to link them to the http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Carriers/ATT page Aug 02 02:55:53 problem solved against all sensibilities by directly hooking to a power supply and ghetto-charging it for 5 mins Aug 02 02:55:54 calamous1_, there is a bug about it Aug 02 02:56:02 and request that they give me a sim card thats listed in the working section or refund my money Aug 02 02:56:06 calamous1_, and FIC is saying it is going to require flashing the firmware on the modem Aug 02 02:56:18 calamous1_, bug #666 Aug 02 02:56:25 mokobot, #666 Aug 02 02:56:26 daMaestro:sorry...used the headset..and plugged in the earbuds...sound was a little weak Aug 02 02:56:28 so we have a bug bot? Aug 02 02:56:36 moko-bunny, ok.. cool.. i'll try it Aug 02 02:56:54 daMaestro: can we flash it? Aug 02 02:57:06 calamous1_, the report is no Aug 02 02:57:17 so do we have to send our phones back? Aug 02 02:57:27 I don't see anything about that on #666 Aug 02 02:58:36 dns resolution anyone? Aug 02 02:58:36 comment 6 Aug 02 02:58:52 navaburo, echo nameserver 192.168.0.1 > /etc/resolv.conf Aug 02 02:58:57 or whatever your dns server is Aug 02 02:59:11 ok, I didn't see a resolv.conf Aug 02 02:59:18 yeah, it's not there Aug 02 02:59:21 make one Aug 02 02:59:25 daMaestro: he just said that it will be delayed. do you know why the bug exists in the first place? Aug 02 02:59:51 no, i just know it is potentially at a level we can't do anything about (aka the consumers) **** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Aug 02 02:59:57 2007