**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Aug 02 02:59:57 2007 Aug 02 03:00:00 I guess I should not talk to at&t since its not their fault Aug 02 03:00:07 well.. it might be ;-) Aug 02 03:00:25 Someone said that all t-mobile sims work fine Aug 02 03:00:29 its just the at&t ones Aug 02 03:00:39 i'm using a tmobile sim right now Aug 02 03:00:43 working? Aug 02 03:00:52 daMaestro, I made a phone call, talked and heard last night Aug 02 03:01:06 I used the handset Aug 02 03:01:43 daMaestro: do a reboot? (no /etc/init.d/named or bind9) Aug 02 03:02:05 navaburo, umm.. no Aug 02 03:02:29 ,ls Aug 02 03:02:30 navaburo, it should work after setting up the resolv.conf Aug 02 03:02:44 argggh! I keep getting "Cannot claim interface: could not claim interface 2: Operation not permitted"..but I've flashed it before :( Aug 02 03:02:45 I just put in the resolv.conf and it worked immediately. Aug 02 03:02:57 ok Aug 02 03:03:04 Make sure you put the right thing in. My local DNS (router) is 192.168.2.1 Aug 02 03:03:13 ok.. i'm leaving this cafe.. bbl Aug 02 03:03:16 moko-bunny: sudo... Aug 02 03:03:35 ahhh...thank you....*Smacks forehead* Aug 02 03:03:41 I just did exactly the same thing Aug 02 03:03:46 Including the smack! Aug 02 03:06:51 I lost my sd card with the latest reboot Aug 02 03:07:26 best check again; it's probably inside that case somewhere! ;) Aug 02 03:07:47 It's so darn tiny... Aug 02 03:07:57 hehe Aug 02 03:09:58 Does MokoMakefile do the mkfs.jffs2? Aug 02 03:11:53 I have the correct dns information in the resolv.conf file Aug 02 03:12:26 nameserver x.x.x.x ? Aug 02 03:12:32 cos if so, it should just work Aug 02 03:12:40 but ping produces Unknown Host Aug 02 03:12:59 can you ping local ips? Aug 02 03:13:46 echo your resolv.conf and tell us what it contains Aug 02 03:14:10 i have 192.168.2.1 Aug 02 03:14:29 it needs to say 'nameserver 192.168.2.1' Aug 02 03:14:34 yes, I can ping local and ermote ips Aug 02 03:14:45 without the ' obviously Aug 02 03:17:19 uuh, I cant believe forgot that.. Aug 02 03:17:49 Better now? Aug 02 03:18:07 I successfully build a new rootfs. Don't know if OM-2007.2 is included in that... Aug 02 03:18:41 holy cow... so many new sounds Aug 02 03:21:43 yupyup Aug 02 03:22:02 the web browser got to google.com :) Aug 02 03:22:13 (and that's it for now) Aug 02 03:30:35 Still haven't successfully built an image that runs on the device Aug 02 03:35:16 i still havnt found out why i get "no soundcards found" Aug 02 03:37:02 Is there a way to cancel my order? Aug 02 03:37:42 You can send reply to your order email with the subject like [rt.internal#xxxx] Aug 02 03:37:47 That will post back to the order process Aug 02 03:37:56 * mwester thinks that might end up being another FAQ! Aug 02 03:38:11 has anyone tried getting prboom working yet? Aug 02 03:38:28 i don't have any build env setup yet... nor have i learned ipkg Aug 02 03:38:40 No bitbake files for the new stuff, darn. Aug 02 03:38:48 still no luck with the microSD card Aug 02 03:38:53 I re-inserted it Aug 02 03:38:55 What's prboom? Aug 02 03:39:07 sagacis, http://giyf.us/prboom Aug 02 03:40:02 Now we're talking.... Aug 02 03:40:18 navaburo: In a minute, I'll check my sd card Aug 02 03:40:31 I'm booting after restoring the 7/28 rootfs Aug 02 03:40:41 Still running the new uBoot, tho Aug 02 03:42:06 grrr... No icons. I wonder why that happens sometimes. Aug 02 03:42:35 sagacis: I reseated the card (it was off) and also put an ogg file on it Aug 02 03:42:45 navaburo: I don't have the sdcard any more Aug 02 03:43:05 What uboot image are you using? Aug 02 03:44:54 do you have to power the sourdcard on? like the gsm Aug 02 03:44:58 h/o one sec Aug 02 03:45:59 I never re-flashed uboot Aug 02 03:46:07 oem, shipped with phone Aug 02 03:47:13 Ok. I flashed to the 7/28 uboot when I flashed the rootfs. I had the media card then Aug 02 03:47:27 Now, withthe 8/1 uboot and the 7/28 rootfs, no media card Aug 02 03:49:50 hm Aug 02 03:51:26 I'm running the 7/28 rootfs and uImage2388 Aug 02 03:51:32 uboot oem Aug 02 03:52:23 Wait, whenever I said uboot, I meant uimage Aug 02 03:52:24 Sorry! Aug 02 03:52:31 I did NOT flash my uBoot Aug 02 03:52:34 Just my uImage Aug 02 03:52:57 ok, good to know! lol Aug 02 03:53:26 I updated to uImage-2.6.21.6-moko11-r1_0_0_2388_0-fic-gta01.bin Aug 02 03:53:27 I updated to uImage-2.6.21.6-moko11-.... today Aug 02 03:53:37 Now I don't have sd card Aug 02 03:53:53 It was working under uImage...moko10... Aug 02 03:54:20 I'm going to flash the uimage back to moko10 Aug 02 03:54:38 I got the neo today Aug 02 03:54:52 and flashed the latest kernel and rootfs Aug 02 03:55:39 from "Flashing Openmoko": Aug 02 03:55:42 "...now, you'll end up with system that boots, but does not see audio/SD card. You'll need to download corresponding modules.tgz and copy them over to openmoko. - UPDATE: GTA01 phones appear to not need this step." Aug 02 03:57:06 right, what about the GTA01 note? Aug 02 03:57:15 [the wiki needs some updating...] Aug 02 03:57:45 Yup. It seemed right to me yesterday. Maybe the modules got dropped from the latest image Aug 02 03:58:07 ok, how would I go about xferring the latest set of modules? Aug 02 03:58:45 Ok, back at uImage...moko10 and 7/28 rootfs, I have the sdcard Aug 02 03:59:16 ok, so its a software issue Aug 02 03:59:40 Yup. Let's compare modules real quick Aug 02 03:59:49 [lsmod] Aug 02 04:00:08 Maybe it's in the kernel Aug 02 04:00:16 I don't see it Aug 02 04:01:18 Does your lsmod show nls_iso8859_1? Aug 02 04:01:25 better yet: Aug 02 04:01:36 the kernel and rootfs I just built works with the SD card Aug 02 04:01:36 root@fic-gta01:/lib/modules$ lsmod Aug 02 04:01:36 Module Size Used by Aug 02 04:01:36 nls_iso8859_1 3808 1 Aug 02 04:01:36 nls_cp437 5472 1 Aug 02 04:01:36 vfat 10144 1 Aug 02 04:01:37 fat 46268 1 vfat Aug 02 04:01:39 nls_base 6720 4 nls_iso8859_1,nls_cp437,vfat,fat Aug 02 04:01:41 snd_soc_neo1973_wm8753 9976 0 Aug 02 04:01:43 snd_soc_s3c24xx_i2s 3496 1 snd_soc_neo1973_wm8753 Aug 02 04:01:45 snd_soc_s3c24xx 4384 1 snd_soc_neo1973_wm8753 Aug 02 04:01:47 snd_soc_wm8753 28568 1 snd_soc_neo1973_wm8753 Aug 02 04:01:49 s3cmci 11396 0 Aug 02 04:01:51 rfcomm 35484 0 Aug 02 04:01:53 ohci_hcd 20812 0 Aug 02 04:01:55 hidp 14720 2 Aug 02 04:01:57 l2cap 20196 10 rfcomm,hidp Aug 02 04:01:59 hci_usb 15228 0 Aug 02 04:02:01 bluetooth 48580 6 rfcomm,hidp,l2cap,hci_usb Aug 02 04:02:01 you have alot more stuff in there than me Aug 02 04:02:09 i have nothing :P Aug 02 04:02:24 I got this image from the chooseopen site Aug 02 04:02:37 http://chooseopen.com/openmoko/build/ Aug 02 04:02:48 I think that's Jason Ellwell's Aug 02 04:03:00 yeah, my version must have them all in the kernel instead Aug 02 04:03:21 I was running that one until this evening...I think... Aug 02 04:03:37 Psi_: I don't think so. Check your /lib/modules. They might not be installed Aug 02 04:04:46 ah, your right Aug 02 04:05:04 Of course, if they are compiled in the kernel, they won't be there, either... Aug 02 04:05:22 But, usually the builds from buildhost aren't with modules Aug 02 04:05:36 I'm not sure how to install them easily. Aug 02 04:05:54 when I cat /proc/modules Aug 02 04:05:59 there are none Aug 02 04:06:17 ^^ Aug 02 04:07:42 i wouldnt know where to start insmod'ing them Aug 02 04:07:52 Heh.. I cat /proc/modules on my host pc and freaked out Aug 02 04:07:55 tried a few sound ones, but got invalid module format Aug 02 04:08:06 root@fic-gta01:/$ cat /proc/modules Aug 02 04:08:06 nls_iso8859_1 3808 1 - Live 0xbf05a000 Aug 02 04:08:06 nls_cp437 5472 1 - Live 0xbf057000 Aug 02 04:08:06 vfat 10144 1 - Live 0xbf053000 Aug 02 04:08:06 fat 46268 1 vfat, Live 0xbf046000 Aug 02 04:08:07 nls_base 6720 4 nls_iso8859_1,nls_cp437,vfat,fat, Live 0xbf043000 Aug 02 04:08:09 snd_soc_neo1973_wm8753 9976 0 - Live 0xbf03f000 Aug 02 04:08:11 snd_soc_s3c24xx_i2s 3496 1 snd_soc_neo1973_wm8753, Live 0xbf03d000 Aug 02 04:08:13 snd_soc_s3c24xx 4384 1 snd_soc_neo1973_wm8753, Live 0xbf03a000 Aug 02 04:08:15 snd_soc_wm8753 28568 1 snd_soc_neo1973_wm8753, Live 0xbf032000 Aug 02 04:08:17 s3cmci 11396 0 - Live 0xbf02e000 Aug 02 04:08:19 rfcomm 35484 0 - Live 0xbf024000 Aug 02 04:08:21 ohci_hcd 20812 0 - Live 0xbf01d000 Aug 02 04:08:23 hidp 14720 2 - Live 0xbf018000 Aug 02 04:08:25 l2cap 20196 10 rfcomm,hidp, Live 0xbf012000 Aug 02 04:08:27 hci_usb 15228 0 - Live 0xbf00d000 Aug 02 04:08:29 bluetooth 48580 6 rfcomm,hidp,l2cap,hci_usb, Live 0xbf000000 Aug 02 04:08:31 Check this out from "MokoMakefile" wiki page: Aug 02 04:08:37 ~pastebin Aug 02 04:08:38 i heard pastebin is a place to paste your stuff without flooding the channel - try http://pastebin.ca, or http://channels.debian.net/paste, or http://rafb.net/paste/, or http://pastebin.com is usually painfully too slow and unresponsive to use, use one of the other pastebin sites, or dpaste.com is a very nice pastebin as well Aug 02 04:08:47 ou can also use “'make qemu-copy-package-foo” to copy the .ipk file for package foo to the virtual SD card, and later use “'ipkg install /media/mmcblk0/file” from within the emulated Neo1973 to install the package. Aug 02 04:09:07 ~google Aug 02 04:09:08 google is, like, a search engine found at http://www.google.com/ Aug 02 04:10:35 Also, the ipkg's for the modules can be found at http://buildhost.openmoko.org/tmp/deploy/ipk/fic-gta01/ Aug 02 04:10:50 In fact, there's a bunch of interesting stuff there. Aug 02 04:10:59 I'll have to check those out Aug 02 04:12:48 I wonder what is io-edgeport Aug 02 04:24:02 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Manually_using_GSM]] Aug 02 04:36:29 good morning Aug 02 04:37:51 http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&articleId=9028629&source=rss_news10 Aug 02 04:40:56 When the initial public version of the device is released this fall, at least one large, well-known company will announce it is committing to the device, Moss-Pultz said. He refused to provide the name of the company. Aug 02 04:40:58 hm Aug 02 04:41:01 ibm, anyone? Aug 02 04:41:31 phrozen77_: IBM isn't a carrier. Aug 02 04:41:40 so? Aug 02 04:41:42 where does it say carrier? Aug 02 04:41:46 it says company Aug 02 04:41:48 that could by j. random tech company Aug 02 04:41:51 i think ibm qualifies for that Aug 02 04:42:01 large well known Aug 02 04:42:03 hm Aug 02 04:42:05 maybe google Aug 02 04:42:07 reading is tech Aug 02 04:42:15 well, IBM *might* be interested in the device as a corporate messaging device. But that would still require some sort of federation with a GSM carrier. Aug 02 04:42:20 who's big and making lots of money on linux Aug 02 04:42:29 ie., eat into the lucrative blackberry market. Aug 02 04:42:29 ckuethe, thats the question Aug 02 04:42:33 who's kinda open source friendly Aug 02 04:42:35 I doubt Linux has much to do with it. Aug 02 04:43:38 yeah, "linux powered" may not be the selling feature to $BIGCORP that it is to some of us here Aug 02 04:44:43 but i think that some big company is more likely to adopt an openmoko phone if they're already familiar/comfortable with linux Aug 02 04:45:39 the obvious gphone.com and googlephone.com aren't reg'd to google Aug 02 04:46:02 pity the spectrum auction rules suck. Aug 02 04:47:04 that is true! Aug 02 04:47:09 I haven't even thought of google. Aug 02 04:47:24 But they might well be interested in OpenMoko technology. Aug 02 04:47:56 gtalk on your cellphone. now your sms and voice conversations can be google-searched Aug 02 04:48:04 and google earth integration Aug 02 04:48:14 because we have a big, hi-res screen and a gps Aug 02 04:48:18 and lots of storage Aug 02 04:48:24 and a video accelerator Aug 02 04:48:26 Sun has already released photoshop picture about Neo1973 Aug 02 04:48:42 :O Aug 02 04:48:42 where? Aug 02 04:49:03 they were demoing some java me stuff Aug 02 04:49:24 yeah, i could see sun drinking the openmokoolaid Aug 02 04:50:28 for example: http://www.pikesoft.com/blog/index.php?itemid=174 Aug 02 04:50:42 (from http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Press_Coverage ) Aug 02 04:50:55 humm... i have my debug board plugged in, jtag and serial work but the usb isn't showing up Aug 02 04:51:11 am i supposed to plug into both ports? i don't get that impression from the wiki Aug 02 04:51:11 that is not OpenMoko of course, but Sean is talking about device there ;-) Aug 02 04:54:09 happycube both ports? Aug 02 04:55:16 both usb ports Aug 02 04:55:47 Sean might be of course talking about somebody else ... Aug 02 04:57:29 lets prove this guy wrong: '"The likelihood of this product becoming mainstream is very low," said Ken Dulaney, an analyst at Gartner Inc. in Stamford, Conn.' Aug 02 05:00:05 ^^ Aug 02 05:00:06 Just heard this interview from someone who saw the whole bridge collapsing event.......you know like, the bridge fell down and like it fell like a long way.....aaaaaaaagh Aug 02 05:00:20 ouch Aug 02 05:00:43 happycube i always connect the moko on one side of the nb and the debugboard on the other. Aug 02 05:00:54 shoot the reporter who picked her out Aug 02 05:00:58 one side of the nb? Aug 02 05:01:13 the moko charges on that port so additional devices do not get any power/much power Aug 02 05:01:21 ahhh Aug 02 05:01:33 happycube i have 3 ports. one single and 2 shared power Aug 02 05:02:00 the wiki made it sound like the usb was routed through the debug board - guess not in bv4 ;) Aug 02 05:02:15 the debug board has a hub in it. yes. Aug 02 05:02:32 i plugged in a bluetooth dongle and it showedup but the phone's usb devices didn't Aug 02 05:02:53 but since most usbports only source 500mA and the moko can max that out some usbstacks do not give the second plugged device the permission to draw more than 100mA Aug 02 05:03:09 unforunatly with where everything is i can't plug the debug board directly into the tower :P Aug 02 05:03:20 heh. Aug 02 05:04:55 woah, quite sceptical analysts, but I guess they are looking at stuff trough commercially colored glasses Aug 02 05:05:27 aloril: these analysts don't know people are kicking our doors in since month now Aug 02 05:05:42 roh: hehe Aug 02 05:05:55 heh cool Aug 02 05:06:57 i think there's even a decent embedded-market for gta01 Aug 02 05:07:08 and the part about 'being interresting for application developers need a established userbase' is also bulls*it. he is talking about 'commercial application developers' ... 'people who sell applications' ... *looking left* *looking right* .. hm.. i can only see opensource atm.. which is _good_ Aug 02 05:07:25 full ack Aug 02 05:08:00 its pretty clearly that these anal-ysts can only see & think in black and white Aug 02 05:08:27 its technical.. so i can see why they do not understand that Aug 02 05:08:38 roh: its like asking analysts about Linux 13 years ago ;-) Aug 02 05:08:55 hm they should understand that - otherwise they shouldnt analyze tech-stuff Aug 02 05:09:06 im not attempting to engineer some nuclear bomb either Aug 02 05:09:14 aloril: heh.. so what... the least what i care is marketing and endusersales right now. Aug 02 05:09:14 roh: or asking about internet 20 years ago Aug 02 05:09:24 any way to keep u-boot from timing out? Aug 02 05:09:57 (and turning off the phone - bad during jtag stuff) Aug 02 05:09:59 happycube it shouldn't . that bug was fixed long ago.. as soon as dfu starts sending data the timeout shoult be completely ignored/disabled Aug 02 05:10:11 ok Aug 02 05:10:16 they are kind of seeing: "not big market for windows apps on OpenMoko" Aug 02 05:10:19 heh Aug 02 05:10:24 lol Aug 02 05:10:26 just wait until mono's fully ported Aug 02 05:10:45 happycube you also can set the timeout in uboot env. to some big number ;) Aug 02 05:10:58 :) Aug 02 05:11:04 i just wonder Aug 02 05:11:12 pardon the newbie q's... i just got my debug board set up tonight Aug 02 05:11:16 is the october date for the 02 definitive? =) Aug 02 05:11:50 coz that'll make a perfect birthday present :D Aug 02 05:12:14 phrozen77_ i think that depends much more on facts that not even i know of than on anything which is 100% predictable. Aug 02 05:12:25 s/October will be a 1.0 release/October or late will be a 0.5 release/ ;-) Aug 02 05:13:00 i have the may 19th build and it did fall asleep on me Aug 02 05:13:08 should i update? Aug 02 05:13:32 happycube did it fall asleep while transmissing via dfu or while just idling in uboot? Aug 02 05:13:36 idling Aug 02 05:13:42 thats normal Aug 02 05:13:45 ok Aug 02 05:13:59 its only 2-3 months until October (and most devs only recently got device) Aug 02 05:14:08 thats why im asking Aug 02 05:14:14 but you also can update. uboot checks if the uboot is built for the right revision before flashing (atleast it should do that now) Aug 02 05:14:27 im just curious :D if you guys can make it - more power to you =) Aug 02 05:14:35 phrozen77_: well, I would except phoning and GPRS work (and probably SMS too) Aug 02 05:14:49 and other basic stuff Aug 02 05:14:56 phrozen77_ if you ask me: lets do it right, better than fixing hw-bugs with software workarounds for month Aug 02 05:15:12 i dont care much about the functionality - i more or less wait for the revised hw Aug 02 05:15:21 roh, absolutely Aug 02 05:15:35 do i want to change bootdelay? Aug 02 05:16:13 i'm positive to have a sample then which should be working hw. but sw.? i cannot even guess what problems may or may not falling down on us. Aug 02 05:16:18 yeah - i don't expect gta02 in october ;) Aug 02 05:16:45 it would go right along with the gta01 kit i got in january Aug 02 05:16:49 ;P Aug 02 05:16:59 happycube bootdelay is how long uboot is 'visible' before booting Aug 02 05:17:03 oh Aug 02 05:17:13 what's the timeout one? couldn't find that in the env list Aug 02 05:17:18 you need that to be able to access the serial and interrupt autoboot Aug 02 05:17:34 that entry is not there by default.. mompls.. i can look it up Aug 02 05:17:42 i'll add it to the wiki Aug 02 05:19:01 gnite all - at 7:17am -_- Aug 02 05:19:04 nite Aug 02 05:22:30 boot_menu_timeout it is afaik Aug 02 05:22:35 i'll try that Aug 02 05:23:03 one more thing - how can you always make it boot into the menu? Aug 02 05:23:35 uff.. dunno if that is implemented. Aug 02 05:24:39 doh Aug 02 05:26:13 it's not - i just went into the init file Aug 02 05:26:28 it uses a "voting" process so that if you hold down aux more than half the time it goes into the menu Aug 02 05:26:39 yep... just reading that Aug 02 05:27:07 so you know where to touch to make it show a menu always Aug 02 05:27:49 yup Aug 02 05:28:11 it'd be nice to make at an environment variable so it could go into the main tree though Aug 02 05:28:42 *that Aug 02 05:28:46 * aloril there is at least one blocker bug: #666, dunno how long that will take ... Aug 02 05:29:25 depends on ti Aug 02 05:29:36 and thanks roh - that setting fixed the timeout Aug 02 05:29:40 happycube: right and that could take a while ... Aug 02 05:39:35 ok i don't need the menu now anyhow... ;) i set boot_wait to 5 seconds so after reset i can send something via DFU Aug 02 05:41:05 *bootdelay Aug 02 05:46:02 argh - the sneaky-dfu conflicts with the nand readin Aug 02 05:48:18 moin Aug 02 06:00:44 moin moin Aug 02 06:09:04 new casio phone looks interesting http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/things-we.d-like-in-america/casio-adds-a-51-mp-cameraphone-to-its-exilim-line-285094.php Aug 02 06:16:08 sweet Aug 02 06:16:17 and da,m the stylus is nice Aug 02 06:25:02 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[P1_Owners]] [[Bootloader]] Aug 02 06:32:14 well, i've still not been able to make a call with audio working Aug 02 06:32:44 but at least i got it working again (after the battery completely died) ... and the tmobile sim works :-D Aug 02 06:32:49 * daMaestro goes to update the wiki Aug 02 06:46:15 btw, if anyone is looking at tmobile, check out the new flex plan... i just confirmed it is ay as you go $39.99 for 1000 minutes, evenings and weekends free.... $20 activation; and you can add data access plans Aug 02 06:46:30 data access is 19.99-29.99 a month depending on what services you use Aug 02 06:50:17 daMaestro: found suitable SIM? Aug 02 06:50:27 aloril, on the tmobile network Aug 02 06:50:30 aloril, not on att Aug 02 06:50:51 aloril, have you see the bug for the att sim(s)? Aug 02 06:50:59 yes, that evil bug Aug 02 06:51:08 http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=666#c6 Aug 02 06:51:09 lol Aug 02 06:51:10 yea! Aug 02 06:51:11 or evil proprietary bug ;-) Aug 02 06:51:16 666 mark of the beast Aug 02 06:57:45 daMaestro: lol, you actually pay for activation, what a total con Aug 02 06:58:36 here in Australia I pay $00.00 for activation and I pay as I go from as little as $2 Aug 02 06:59:52 if you pay $50 you stay connected for a whole year on a pre-pay Aug 02 07:00:02 hmmm it takes a bit of time to put the rootfs onto the phone doesnt it Aug 02 07:01:22 yes Aug 02 07:01:47 1/2 way Aug 02 07:02:17 I find it amusing that Telco's in the USA charge for people to connect to the service considering part of how a networks actual worth is calculated is by how many phones are connected (works out at about US$400 per client), in reality they should be paying the users to connect Aug 02 07:22:20 so, where is the mailing list that issues build reports, etc? Aug 02 07:22:20 at least one plan in Finland doesn't have monthly payments, only initial 10 EUR (DNA Arvo) Aug 02 07:22:24 hopefully with a changelog Aug 02 07:22:28 so i know when to flash Aug 02 07:22:33 there is also one eith 0 EUR opening, but 2.95 EUR/month Aug 02 07:22:34 rather then just bitch Aug 02 07:22:40 ok how do you get the top menu back if you make it disapeer? Aug 02 07:23:02 xzcvczx, i've managed that a lot (when dealing with the gsm power on/register via the gui) Aug 02 07:23:09 xzcvczx, i've not found a way.. other then reboot Aug 02 07:24:16 awesome.. first try and the dialer made a call for me Aug 02 07:24:25 too bad i still have yet to figure out how to make sound work Aug 02 07:24:36 daMaestro: i dont think that my sim is registering properly Aug 02 07:25:01 xzcvczx, have you ssh'd in and tested a libgsm shell based call? Aug 02 07:25:13 not yet Aug 02 07:25:18 i only got the phone an hour ago Aug 02 07:25:52 worked this time Aug 02 07:26:01 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Getting_Started_with_your_Neo1973 Aug 02 07:26:48 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Getting_Started_with_your_Neo1973#Getting_shell_access_on_the_phone and then http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Gsmd#Usage_of_shell_mode Aug 02 07:29:24 morning Aug 02 07:29:30 daMaestro, try "cd /etc/alsa/ && wget http://opensource.wolfsonmicro.com/~gg/gsmheadset.working.state && alsactl -f /etc/alsa/gsmheadset.working.state restore" Aug 02 07:31:12 Dmitry_Platonov, that link is no longer good Aug 02 07:31:22 Dmitry_Platonov, they have moved to: http://opensource.wolfsonmicro.com/~gg/neo1973 Aug 02 07:31:47 and yes.. i have both of the .working.state Aug 02 07:31:49 5~ Aug 02 07:31:55 i'd really like to get the handset working Aug 02 07:32:00 but even the headset is fine Aug 02 07:32:19 i'm actually working on getting NAT going on hotplug from fedora Aug 02 07:32:37 i'm very close.. might need to fix up the FORWARD chain a little more Aug 02 07:32:52 is there any way to change the date from on the phone? Aug 02 07:35:09 i did it with unix date commands Aug 02 07:35:30 hi Aug 02 07:35:34 yeah thats how i will do it if there is no one to do it from the gui Aug 02 07:35:44 i would assume that the plan would be to do it from the gsm network Aug 02 07:35:53 but so far i've not see the time persist Aug 02 07:35:57 after that make sure you set the hardware clock to the system clock Aug 02 07:36:10 Sublime, does it keep after reboot? Aug 02 07:36:26 if you set the hardware clock to the system clock after it does Aug 02 07:37:33 "hwclock --systohc" Aug 02 07:37:59 i havent been able to make it display in am/pm yet, just 24hr time Aug 02 07:38:38 daMaestro: or set time from GPS Aug 02 07:39:36 Sublime, that is most likely just tz settings Aug 02 07:39:40 aloril, funny Aug 02 07:39:45 good old terminal+osk== sweet Aug 02 07:43:58 hmmm for some reason the GSM has jammed up Aug 02 08:25:02 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[MacOS_X]] [[User:Historybuff/fingerinputidea]] [[Manually_using_GSM]] [[P1_Owners]] [[Carriers/TMobile]] Aug 02 08:26:45 Hello Master Aug 02 08:29:44 ? Aug 02 08:34:35 Greeting! Aug 02 08:39:59 howdy Aug 02 08:42:33 daMaestro, how did you get the dial app to make a call? Aug 02 08:45:29 Psi_, just used it Aug 02 08:47:12 hm.. Aug 02 08:47:42 Psi_, have you gotten manual calls to work? Aug 02 08:47:42 what format did you dial Aug 02 08:48:01 yes, ive made and recieved calls using cu -l Aug 02 08:48:04 just normal Aug 02 08:48:37 i was doing AT+CPIN="...." instead of my actual pin :P Aug 02 08:48:37 Psi_, try: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Gsmd#Usage_of_shell_mode Aug 02 08:49:32 daMaestro, when you try to get sound working (alasctl) what error do you get? Aug 02 08:49:42 Psi_, i don't get an error Aug 02 08:49:43 just no sound Aug 02 08:49:54 i get "no soundcards found" Aug 02 08:50:03 i really want to get hot plug NAT going Aug 02 08:51:19 daMaestro, how did you enter your pin to get the dialing app to work? Aug 02 08:51:30 my sim doesn't have a pin Aug 02 08:51:33 ah Aug 02 08:51:45 that explains that then Aug 02 08:53:09 *sigh* just my luck. my phone is finally arriving to Finland but i gotta leave home today for 4 day computer festival so i'll get my neo at monday Aug 02 08:53:12 does it actually not have a pin, or is it no pin if the pin is 0000 ? Aug 02 08:54:37 Psi_, i don't have to enter a pin at all Aug 02 08:55:01 yeah, i was just wondering if the dialing app assumes a pin of 0000 or something Aug 02 08:55:35 the dialing app most likely doesn't care about the pin Aug 02 08:55:40 i would assume only gsmd does Aug 02 08:56:20 the pin is the one i enter when my old cellphone is first turned on, i can change it in the phone menu Aug 02 08:56:36 actually i think there might also be a setting to disable it Aug 02 08:56:58 i always thought that was a phone setting tho, nothing to do with the sim other than storing the number Aug 02 08:57:52 daMaestro, what kernel/image are you using? Aug 02 08:57:59 i'm just about to flash it Aug 02 08:58:21 ok Aug 02 08:58:32 ill wait and see which one you think is better :) Aug 02 08:59:19 i just flashed with the latest kernel and module pack and it would freeze at starting usb host Aug 02 09:00:00 raynet: Assembly? Aug 02 09:00:26 hmm... so http://buildhost.openmoko.org/tmp/deploy/images/latest/ doesn't contain the latest Aug 02 09:00:37 that is strange Aug 02 09:01:10 http://buildhost.openmoko.org/tmp/deploy/images/latest/ is what i have been using Aug 02 09:01:11 time to update Aug 02 09:01:37 i got it from here: http://chooseopen.com/openmoko/build/ Aug 02 09:02:11 woops Aug 02 09:02:25 LarstiQ: hai Aug 02 09:02:32 i mean: http://buildhost.openmoko.org/tmp/deploy/images/ Aug 02 09:02:53 yeah looks like htey need to update latest Aug 02 09:03:37 i'm going to try http://buildhost.openmoko.org/tmp/deploy/images/openmoko-devel-image-fic-gta01-20070728081358.rootfs.jffs2 and http://buildhost.openmoko.org/tmp/deploy/images/uImage-2.6.21.6-moko11-r1_0_0_2388_0-fic-gta01.bin Aug 02 09:03:55 hello Aug 02 09:04:12 any dude is there Aug 02 09:04:18 daMaestro, thats exactly what im using now Aug 02 09:04:38 mhh.... Aug 02 09:04:38 ill be interested to see if you get the no soundcard message Aug 02 09:04:47 raynet: cool, could you watch some compos for me ;) Aug 02 09:04:47 i'll let you know Aug 02 09:05:06 LarstiQ: sure, why not Aug 02 09:05:07 Psi_ can you get it to play an mp3? Aug 02 09:05:19 i will send u later on ur e mail. Aug 02 09:05:34 ive not tried, without sound i didnt feel there was any point in trying to play one Aug 02 09:05:35 LarstiQ: if i had had my neo earlier i might have managed to made something for the mobile compo but now.... Aug 02 09:05:38 give me ur e mail adress Aug 02 09:05:47 psi Aug 02 09:06:02 i can play mp3s but havent been able to get sound on calls Aug 02 09:06:12 give it a try and see if it works Aug 02 09:06:24 ok than send me Aug 02 09:06:46 Sublime, your using chooseopen rather than buildhost aren't you? Aug 02 09:06:49 *sigh* ffrom UPS site Scheduled Delivery: 08/06/2007 Aug 02 09:07:00 raynet: I trust I have mine on time for breakpoint, but yeah :/ Aug 02 09:07:24 no Aug 02 09:08:22 oh, ok Aug 02 09:08:31 when i first flashed to get a gui for the first time i used chooseopen but ive flashed so many damn times, im pretty sure im using buildhost now Aug 02 09:08:38 heh Aug 02 09:09:38 yeah, flashing the kernel is pretty quick Aug 02 09:09:43 the rootfs takes about 5 minutes Aug 02 09:09:56 i got this sweet powered usb hub today.. oh yeah Aug 02 09:10:52 wifi dongle time Aug 02 09:18:51 raynet: next year you could do something with GTA02 (GPU) ;-) Aug 02 09:20:53 aloril: yup :) Aug 02 09:40:16 Psi_, i am getting no soundcards found on boot Aug 02 09:40:50 i could be getting that also, ive not looked at my bootlogs much Aug 02 09:40:53 Psi_, this *is* the first boot though Aug 02 09:41:57 Psi_, lol.. well it looks like the xserver failed to start Aug 02 09:42:36 openmoko: 03thomas * r2603 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/artwork/themes/openmoko-standard-2/gtk-2.0/openmoko-calculator: * Adjust font size of calculator display Aug 02 09:43:04 Psi_, i'm booting it again Aug 02 09:43:37 Hmm. Out For Delivery. (though not directly to me) Aug 02 09:43:55 is there a way to enter + into the dialer app? Aug 02 09:43:59 Psi_, still getting no soundcards found... this time the xserver loaded Aug 02 09:44:16 * has a + on it but there is no shift or anything to get it Aug 02 09:44:23 daMaestro, yep Aug 02 09:44:38 You do know you don't actually dial + generally? Aug 02 09:44:57 It's an escape meaning 'your international prefix'. Aug 02 09:44:57 you don't? ;-) Aug 02 09:45:11 AIUI anyway. Aug 02 09:45:17 I could of course be wrong. Aug 02 09:45:29 oh wow! Aug 02 09:45:35 i really like the UI on this build more Aug 02 09:45:48 i can actually touch to open the menu!.... and we have snazzy images now Aug 02 09:46:13 Does it actually make calls and not crash? :) Aug 02 09:46:17 Could someone do some screens of the new UI Aug 02 09:46:19 testing now Aug 02 09:46:39 i like the "thinking" image a LOT more too Aug 02 09:46:40 SpeedEvil, when i try and dial using cu -l if i dont put it in the format +xxyzzzzzzz it doesnt work Aug 02 09:46:54 would be nice to have some fresh screenshots in the wiki Aug 02 09:46:56 Oh well. Aug 02 09:47:03 I guess I'm wrong again. Aug 02 09:47:09 That must be the third time. Aug 02 09:47:25 i could do some later today Aug 02 09:47:29 * Stephmw rushes to get the ego deflator Aug 02 09:47:34 i need to go to sleep soon, $work today Aug 02 09:47:56 thanks daMaestro :) Aug 02 09:48:27 i would say the new build looks somewhat nicer, but i wont go as far as to say it is working better Aug 02 09:48:46 boot up is showing a lot of issues Aug 02 09:50:12 hmm.. and the dialer wont even start on this build Aug 02 09:50:39 so fix it and send patches :) Aug 02 09:50:51 or bug reports... Aug 02 09:51:27 yes, i know Aug 02 09:51:37 daMaestro, arent you using the same build as me? Aug 02 09:51:44 maybe not Aug 02 09:51:49 i'm using the build from yesterday Aug 02 09:52:19 ok, just noticed too many mails with complains, but I haven't seen any patch yet :p Aug 02 09:52:19 na im not using that one Aug 02 09:53:13 "complains", they're bug reports actually but at wrong place :) Aug 02 09:53:46 Complain to bugzilla :) Aug 02 09:54:04 anyway it's nice to have so many testers Aug 02 09:54:28 i'm versed enough with FOSS i know that much ;-) Aug 02 09:54:37 i've only had a SIM card for <12 hours Aug 02 09:55:07 ah, you live in that att country? :p Aug 02 09:55:07 and $work doesn't allow me to play with my neo, so i only have limited time Aug 02 09:55:14 thus i'm up at 4am Aug 02 09:55:23 :) Aug 02 09:57:33 hmm.... what is the default password for the new images? Aug 02 09:57:44 echo $work ? Aug 02 09:58:12 openmoko: 03thomas * r2604 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/artwork/themes/openmoko-standard-2/gtk-2.0/gtkbutton: * Add match for MokoDigitButton to fix button font colour in the dialer Aug 02 09:58:35 daMaestro: bugzilla Aug 02 09:58:41 probably :) Aug 02 09:58:56 meh, i'm just trying to get the hotplug stuff working Aug 02 10:02:04 SpeedEvil: rm $work Aug 02 10:03:12 hmm i'm going back one rootfs version Aug 02 10:08:46 raynet: I guess GTA02 is quite good platform to make demo, reasonably powerful GPU Aug 02 10:09:59 aloril: GTA01 is good enough already Aug 02 10:10:17 LarstiQ: yeah, but GTA02 is something else Aug 02 10:10:39 The GTA02-GPU, does it have support for OpenGL ES? Aug 02 10:10:45 * LarstiQ isn't holding his hope up for the graphics Aug 02 10:11:52 daxxar: apparently, yes Aug 02 10:12:42 Designed on the OpenGL ES 1.2, the co-processor's performance achieves 2M triangles per second via SMedia's own optimizing Transform and Lighting engine. With the capability of 8 lights simultaneously, 3 different lighting types and multiple textures in one cycle, the Glamo3370 Mobile Graphics Processor give users an immersive 3D gaming experience. Aug 02 10:13:56 Ah yes. Aug 02 10:14:08 That'd be an immersive experience on a 2.8" screen :) Aug 02 10:14:13 Hehe. :-) Aug 02 10:14:24 We need wearable display support Aug 02 10:14:37 stereo glasses, etc.. Aug 02 10:14:58 apparently some of it exists, just quite expensive Aug 02 10:15:03 Dmitry_Platonov: just tape two mokos linked by bluetooth to your glasses Aug 02 10:15:43 Dmitry_Platonov, its called two neos and a roll of duct tape Aug 02 10:16:21 * SpeedEvil is pondering manufacturing a covert display over bluetooth. Aug 02 10:17:06 320*240 or so - invisible in sunglasses. Need to be at least $200 or so though. Aug 02 10:17:17 At least in small qty Aug 02 10:17:18 hmmmm it looks like it's the latest kernel causing me issues Aug 02 10:18:08 nice, and i got a jffs2 error 71 Aug 02 10:18:11 :-D Aug 02 10:18:15 this mean time to ZzZzZZz Aug 02 10:18:47 Hm, my neo is in transit to Copenhage Aug 02 10:18:49 Copenhagen Aug 02 10:19:06 Are you anywhere near there? :) Aug 02 10:19:32 Hehe, not too bad. I'm in the middle of Norway Aug 02 10:19:38 Copenhagen is in the ~middle of Denmark Aug 02 10:19:53 So, just a bunch of hours transit north, and it's here. Aug 02 10:19:58 Well - at least it's on the right continent. Aug 02 10:20:03 But I bet customs will want to play with it before I get it. Aug 02 10:20:04 Yep Aug 02 10:20:24 It's been in two german cities, so it has been on the right continent for a day or two. Aug 02 10:21:11 SpeedEvil: Do you have any advice if I feel I understand KCL/KVL, Node-voltage, etc, but fail horribly when trying to apply it to exercises? (like last years exams) Aug 02 10:22:07 SpeedEvil: I would buy one for $200 instantly Aug 02 10:24:48 KCL? Aug 02 10:24:52 Ah. Aug 02 10:25:08 daxxar: do more excersizes. Aug 02 10:25:45 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[P1_Owners]] Aug 02 10:25:48 If you have problems, take a pic of your circuit, and go over to ##electronics for help, and explain what you've done, and where you're stuck. Aug 02 10:26:12 and what it smells like Aug 02 10:26:23 SpeedEvil: Okay, I'll try that. :-) Aug 02 10:26:37 yeah, tantalum and electrolytic capacitors have unique smells Aug 02 10:26:48 We're talking theory guys, so no burnt components. ;-) Aug 02 10:26:54 aloril: The real problem is that to 'properly' develop a BT thingy, is some $20K for the required test-gear. Which I don't have. (this is to make it sure that it'll work with all devices, no thte couple I test with) Aug 02 10:28:11 yeah, thought what about Neo1973 only? or one with wires instead of Bluetooth? Aug 02 10:28:25 Wires is simpler. Aug 02 10:28:35 Or dedicated wifi. Aug 02 10:28:46 And it would reduce the required testgear. Aug 02 10:29:15 But not actually reduce the cost by much - the price is mainly the display - which is $45 in ones Aug 02 10:29:31 So that needs to add $90 to the price, to make it reasonable for sale. Aug 02 10:30:24 but would reduce R&D cost, so less capital needed Aug 02 10:30:31 Indeed. Aug 02 10:33:56 what about display + camera both in glasses? Aug 02 10:34:27 openmoko: 03njp * r2605 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-dialer2/ (ChangeLog src/moko-dialer.c): Aug 02 10:34:27 openmoko: 2007-08-02 Neil J. Patel Aug 02 10:34:27 openmoko: * src/moko-dialer.c: (on_incoming_call): Aug 02 10:34:27 openmoko: Check if we have already set the incoming call status, otherwise each Aug 02 10:34:27 openmoko: ring causes MokoGsmdConnection to emit a incoming call, and we keep Aug 02 10:34:31 openmoko: creating talking widgets. Aug 02 10:34:35 meh Aug 02 10:36:50 aloril: that adds a fair bit of complexity. Lots if you want video. Aug 02 10:36:55 As you then need a codec. Aug 02 10:37:46 SpeedEvil: what's wrong with raw DV? ;) Aug 02 10:37:48 unless you do it with wires, but then still need fair amount of power Aug 02 10:38:04 LarstiQ: raw DV over bluetooth doesn't work that well. Aug 02 10:38:20 it doesn't even work that well over wifi. Aug 02 10:43:26 daxxar: when is your neo scheduled to arrive? I think mine is on the same shipment :D Aug 02 10:44:38 is it normal to pay in germany 50,89 euro taxes for the neo?? Aug 02 10:44:58 that sounds lower than what people have paid in other countries Aug 02 10:46:15 Henrikw: 08/07/07 Aug 02 10:46:26 I.e. tuesday Aug 02 10:46:34 Whoops, that's bad timing! Day before my exam! ;P Aug 02 10:46:54 same as me :) can't wait.. eksamen nå? konte? ;) Aug 02 10:47:59 fyi, I have also an exam on the 9. :p Aug 02 10:48:40 Jepp, kosekonte. Aug 02 10:48:53 fag da? Aug 02 10:48:57 I have a konte in "kretsteknikk", meh, I suck. :-P Aug 02 10:49:00 'bout you? Aug 02 10:49:07 digtek :p Aug 02 10:49:19 AFI - Prelude 12/21 = awesome on high volumes with a decent stereo. Aug 02 10:49:31 Chorus & bass makes songs rules. ;-) Aug 02 10:49:55 You're taking compsci? Aug 02 10:50:17 nope, HiST electronics Aug 02 10:50:38 Ah, okay. Cool, bachelor? Aug 02 10:50:42 yep Aug 02 10:50:44 you? Aug 02 10:50:48 EE Aug 02 10:51:03 (siving elektronikk) Aug 02 10:51:14 Starting second year now, 'bout you? Aug 02 10:51:24 ah :) starting second as well Aug 02 10:51:35 I'm actually having digtek this year Aug 02 10:51:39 young'uns Aug 02 10:52:15 it's not that hard if you're actually paying attention :p Aug 02 10:52:23 * ewon has a B.Sc. Computer Systems, graduated 2005, and feels old Aug 02 10:52:32 not as old as cjb_ie though... Aug 02 10:52:32 ewon: Hehe Aug 02 10:52:40 heh :) Aug 02 10:52:45 Henrikw: Do you take many (any?) courses on NTNU? Aug 02 10:53:18 daxxar: no, none. but I work there from time to time :) Aug 02 10:53:51 Henrikw: Where do you work? Aug 02 11:24:33 yay, got sound, well. got mp3 to play :) Aug 02 11:30:23 openmoko: 03thomas * r2606 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-dialer2/ (5 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed) Aug 02 11:30:23 openmoko: * src/Makefile.am: Stop being pedantic Aug 02 11:30:23 openmoko: * src/moko-dialer-declares.h: Removed Aug 02 11:30:23 openmoko: * src/moko-dialer-textview.c: (moko_dialer_textview_class_init), Aug 02 11:30:23 openmoko: (moko_dialer_textview_init), (moko_dialer_textview_set_color), Aug 02 11:30:27 openmoko: (moko_dialer_textview_insert): Aug 02 11:30:29 openmoko: * src/moko-dialer-textview.h: Aug 02 11:43:39 openmoko: 03njp * r2607 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-dialer2/ (ChangeLog data/openmoko-dialer.desktop): Aug 02 11:43:39 openmoko: 2007-08-02 Neil J. Patel Aug 02 11:43:39 openmoko: * data/openmoko-dialer.desktop: Aug 02 11:43:39 openmoko: Execute openmoko-dialer -s, so the dialer always shows. Aug 02 11:59:10 Hello Lord Aug 02 12:08:12 hi Aug 02 12:11:31 Hello Aug 02 12:26:25 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Manually_using_GSM]] [[Application_UI_Design_Recommendations]] [[Talk:Main_Page/ru]] [[Buying_Interest_List]] [[Manually_using_GPRS]] [[Talk:Openstreetmap]] Aug 02 12:27:13 is there any way to play with gps in p1? Aug 02 12:27:38 xzcvczx: if you have gliin then you can Aug 02 12:27:51 hrw: and if you dont lol Aug 02 12:28:06 xzcvczx: to play with gps you need gliin Aug 02 12:28:44 lol Aug 02 12:29:05 hrw: do you have any idea why its not included in the rootfs Aug 02 12:29:30 no Aug 02 12:29:42 continuing contractual tuning with Global Locate, apparently Aug 02 12:30:03 humm ha Aug 02 12:30:41 * SpeedEvil passes the core-team the super-shotgun. Aug 02 12:31:37 I think that gliin in rootfs was by mistake - someone did not reflashed phones after testing. Aug 02 12:31:57 probably Aug 02 12:32:46 ah ok Aug 02 12:34:17 isn't gllin shipped with the P1 devices? Aug 02 12:34:33 P1 comes without rootfs Aug 02 12:34:41 Vegar: only some ones - those sent in March to selected devs Aug 02 12:34:43 ah Aug 02 12:35:34 there was p0(50 selected devs), p1(devs from p0) and p1(phones sold to devs in July) Aug 02 12:37:56 global locate do not want developers to mess with gllin and RE hammerhead protocol? Aug 02 12:38:13 Well - given tha tthey don't document it... Aug 02 12:40:46 whoa! "make openmoko-devel-image" completed! Aug 02 12:49:49 hi there.. Aug 02 12:50:19 hi Aug 02 12:50:51 i'm will be in the States on August the 7th. Are the NEOs sold out? Aug 02 12:51:08 basically, yes. Aug 02 12:51:11 For the moment. Aug 02 12:51:19 There has been no news on when the new batch will be. Aug 02 12:52:44 I was told by sales it would arrive 10-15th of august Aug 02 12:52:56 However. Aug 02 12:52:58 rumours say, that new batches are being produced... Aug 02 12:53:02 (but sales also told me that my Neo would be a part of the second batch; my Neo is currently in the hands of UPS) Aug 02 12:53:16 The new batch _easily_ is covered by existing orders. Aug 02 12:53:23 Elrond: sauce? Aug 02 12:53:26 "Your order should be proceed when the 2nd batch of shipment arrives FICA between 8/10-15." Aug 02 12:53:30 If the new batch is 500 Aug 02 12:54:30 SpeedEvil - Huh... I don't remember exactly... Aug 02 12:54:40 ... that's why I declared it rumour. Aug 02 12:55:12 I heard a rumor that the second batch was really GTA02. Aug 02 12:55:17 I think it was in a dream :) Aug 02 12:55:48 I think, that's unlikely. I think, they still experiment with the HW. Didn't they already get to GTA02v2? Aug 02 12:56:03 Prolly. Aug 02 12:56:07 I think it's impossible. Aug 02 13:04:05 SpeedEvil: I think there's some confusion about the "2nd batch". There's actually two "2nd batches": 1. first production run was divided up in 2 shipments bound for the US. Phones from the first are already being sent out via UPS and the second shipment is supposed to arrive in the US today. Aug 02 13:04:29 2. meaning the next production run of phones. Aug 02 13:05:09 AFAIK, the phones from the second production run is supposed to get to the US around 10-15th of august. Aug 02 13:17:44 http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=41400 <- ahaha Aug 02 13:17:46 Huh, the HH and gllin isn't as bad, as I though. I took the neo to work. It's 1.5m away from the window and found two sats from cold start within 30sec or so. Aug 02 13:19:24 Elrond: i am on 2nd floor of 7 floor poured concrete construction well away from the window and i got at least one satellite Aug 02 13:19:59 xzcvczx - ahh. Did you try a sirf3 next to the neo? Aug 02 13:20:13 ... I'll take the sirf3 thing to work soon, I think. Aug 02 13:20:20 Elrond: no dont have one of them Aug 02 13:21:03 Ahh. Aug 02 13:21:28 Hmm, but it still didn't get the orbit of those two sats... Aug 02 13:21:59 Elrond: what you using to parse the data? Aug 02 13:23:02 xzcvczx - I'm mad enough to be able to read nmea from tail -f. ;o) Aug 02 13:23:29 oh yup Aug 02 13:23:33 orbit? Aug 02 13:23:51 You mean it wouldn't download the ephemridis? Aug 02 13:23:57 SpeedEvil - Exactly. Aug 02 13:24:39 Elrond, did you see Tomtom GL vs Tomtom Sirf3 comparison? Aug 02 13:25:11 where? Aug 02 13:25:20 ml? Aug 02 13:25:25 somewhere on the web. Aug 02 13:25:45 Dmitry_Platonov - No. What was the basic result? Aug 02 13:26:07 i wonder if GL's affraid the protocol will get reverse engineered now Aug 02 13:26:20 Note that I start to possibly consider the HH a nice "resaerch platform". Aug 02 13:26:22 GL hammerhead slightly better Aug 02 13:26:30 less overshooting Aug 02 13:27:06 happycube - *I* am not going to wake them up. Aug 02 13:28:18 I wonder if it might be worth it. Aug 02 13:28:28 There is no reason to specify you're even on the Neo. Aug 02 13:30:11 yeah Aug 02 13:30:15 * SpeedEvil ponders a new sentance. Aug 02 13:30:18 hehe. Yeah, there' are probably many other devices with it. Aug 02 13:30:24 NMEA - or whatever. Aug 02 13:30:32 Correcting past errors. Aug 02 13:30:47 http://www.gpspassion.com/fr/articles.asp?id=216 Aug 02 13:30:49 Doing best curve fitting after the fact. Aug 02 13:32:25 Hello Harald :) Aug 02 13:33:28 Hi LaF0rge Aug 02 13:38:18 how power button is mapped in QEMU? Aug 02 13:39:12 halt -p did the job :) Aug 02 13:41:26 "halt" works so much better on my device, that I even created a .desktop for it. ;) Aug 02 13:42:37 Dmitry_Platonov: can't you get the keycode from xev? Aug 02 13:42:57 buttons are not keyboard buttons Aug 02 13:43:05 they do not appear in the normal keyboard interfaces. Aug 02 13:44:08 SpeedEvil: so it does not trigger an X event? Aug 02 13:45:12 I doubt it. Aug 02 13:45:23 Unless there has been an extension done, so it can do so. Aug 02 13:46:02 The panel-plugin has button functionality. But I haven't looked, how it hooks to the buttons. Aug 02 13:46:19 SpeedEvil, I mean QEMU can trigger hardware event on keypress? Aug 02 13:46:54 Ah. Aug 02 13:47:15 Now, that I don't know. Aug 02 13:48:51 how do you add dns servers to the moko for usb networking? Aug 02 13:50:16 normally Aug 02 13:50:20 in /etc/resolv.conf Aug 02 13:50:54 hrw: yeah thats what i thought Aug 02 13:51:50 anybody tried fresh openmoko-today2? Aug 02 13:52:12 No. Aug 02 13:52:32 Dmitry_Platonov: fresh as 'built today'? Aug 02 13:52:46 fresh=with kinetic scrolling :) Aug 02 13:53:40 ah... you mean 'anybody tried openmoko-today2?' then Aug 02 13:53:56 Dmitry_Platonov: I used it 2-3 weeks ago Aug 02 13:54:12 Dmitry_Platonov: what gcc are you using to build openmoko-devel-image? Aug 02 13:54:27 xzcvczx: gcc 4.1.x will work Aug 02 13:55:23 hrw: i have had numerous issues of stuff not being built correctly and coming out as textfiles instead of objects Aug 02 13:55:29 i.e. today2 === kinetic scrolling? Aug 02 13:55:54 xzcvczx: we use gcc 4.1.x for quite long time Aug 02 13:56:36 xzcvczx, host gcc 4.2; gcc 3.4.6 for qemu Aug 02 13:56:52 s/4.2/4.2.0/ Aug 02 13:56:52 Dmitry_Platonov meant: xzcvczx, host gcc 4.2.0; gcc 3.4.6 for qemu Aug 02 13:57:18 hmmm ok Aug 02 13:58:40 and host boost & monotone are built with gcc 4.1.2 because boost (or some deps) does not builds with 4.2.0 for me. Aug 02 13:59:15 i had to rebuild monotone with 3.4.6 for qemu to work for me Aug 02 14:00:04 $GPGSV,1,1,01,17,,,19*76 Aug 02 14:00:15 ... for five minutes... and no ephemeris. :-| Aug 02 14:02:08 Elrond, how do you know there are no ephemeris? does NMEA outputs em? Aug 02 14:02:31 Dmitry_Platonov - nmea outputs the "current orbit position". Aug 02 14:02:50 $GPGSV,1,1,01,17,,,19*76 Aug 02 14:03:29 Ahh, finally it lost that one satelite. Aug 02 14:03:35 Now NO sats at all. Aug 02 14:04:24 are you sure that it will output GPGSV without fix? Aug 02 14:04:53 It seems so. Aug 02 14:10:00 Well, I'm talking with at&t to see if I can get a new sim card that works Aug 02 14:10:06 or a refund for my prepaid plan Aug 02 14:13:48 Please don't let this man torture me. Aug 02 14:14:28 * xzcvczx wonders where his guitar pick went Aug 02 14:25:45 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Translation]] [[Talk:MokoMakefile]] Aug 02 14:29:55 openmoko: 03thomas * r2608 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/artwork/themes/openmoko-standard-2/gtk-2.0/gtkcheckbutton: Aug 02 14:29:55 openmoko: * Apply check drawing to all widgets, so that other widgets can draw the correct Aug 02 14:29:55 openmoko: checkitems (e.g. GtkTreeView, GtkCheckMenuItem) Aug 02 14:31:49 hrw, is there an easy way for switching to OM-2007.2 (I'm using mokomakefile)? Aug 02 14:32:23 no Aug 02 14:37:23 so is the second set ever going to ship out? Aug 02 14:38:04 i think you need to manage to build angstrom and then add the openmoko2 packages Aug 02 14:43:55 Dmitry_Platonov: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/OpenMoko2007.2 may help Aug 02 14:45:58 Dmitry_Platonov: building the image isnt much more difficult as with mokomakefile Aug 02 14:46:29 Dmitry_Platonov: hwowever you lose the possibility to flash it automatically into the qemu image Aug 02 14:46:54 thanks xzcvczx, rschuster Aug 02 14:47:12 Dmitry_Platonov: perhaps a bit of tweaking the makefile helps here (let it look into a different directory) Aug 02 14:47:44 Dmitry_Platonov: I am playing with OM 2007.2 too. If I find out usefull things I will update the wiki page above Aug 02 14:58:54 any new news from WIlliam Lai about the shipping. He told me this week for sure, but I'm starting to have my doubts Aug 02 15:00:39 mintee: I got a mail from him yesterday, saying the phones would arrive in the US "within 24 hrs". Aug 02 15:04:12 Kensan, thanks... So I assume it will be pushed to mid-next week then. Aug 02 15:05:17 Just to inform you: payment confirmation on #2686 YEEHAAAAA! Aug 02 15:05:21 woot! Aug 02 15:05:31 :) Aug 02 15:07:47 ˙˙j Aug 02 15:07:54 whoops Aug 02 15:10:41 Is there something 'special' about the USB cable that ships with the Neo, or is it just a normal cable and I don't have to worry about losing it in the multitude of USB cables that I already own? Aug 02 15:10:45 The battery in the neo is 'dumb' - with just a thermistor? Aug 02 15:10:46 * juri_ wishes for confirmation on her #25xx. :/ Aug 02 15:13:57 Could someone screenshot the OpenMoko2007.2 UI so that I can update the UI section in the wiki which is not up to date after the theme has changed Aug 02 15:23:06 openmoko: 03njp * r2609 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-dialer2/ (ChangeLog src/moko-dialer.c): Aug 02 15:23:06 openmoko: 2007-08-02 Neil J. Patel Aug 02 15:23:06 openmoko: * src/moko-dialer.c: (on_incoming_call): Aug 02 15:23:06 openmoko: Double check for incoming status as new tabs keep appearing. Aug 02 15:24:12 hello everyone. Aug 02 15:24:49 hello i wish to buy an openmoko. can any one help me? Aug 02 15:24:50 Commands: counter (see estimated time until P1), counter_msg (set message for counter), faq (gives this link: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ ) Aug 02 15:25:02 rwhitby, mokomakefile && OM2007.2 ... ? Aug 02 15:25:12 is the shipping started? Aug 02 15:25:31 i have heard that it is being delayed. Aug 02 15:25:32 smash_, it;s a developer preview - you do know that, right ? Aug 02 15:25:33 smash yes Aug 02 15:25:35 smash_: Visit openmoko.com Aug 02 15:25:43 smash wait or october Aug 02 15:25:46 for Aug 02 15:25:48 you can buy at openmokko.com Aug 02 15:26:03 s/openmokko.com/openmoko.com Aug 02 15:26:09 s/openmokko.com/openmoko.com/ Aug 02 15:26:09 FuzzyCat meant: s/openmoko.com/openmoko.com Aug 02 15:26:13 :) Aug 02 15:26:37 is the shipping started? if it register there when will i get it? Aug 02 15:26:59 They are behind on filling orders. Aug 02 15:27:05 have anybody got it? Aug 02 15:27:06 i'll wait for the free version ;) Aug 02 15:27:07 smash are you developer or user? Aug 02 15:27:21 hena what free version? Aug 02 15:27:32 wonglinde: developer Aug 02 15:27:40 or you mean with free all components free? Aug 02 15:27:41 You can see who has ordered and who has received here: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/P1_Owners Aug 02 15:27:53 smash www.openmoko.com Aug 02 15:28:08 smash and if you lucky you will get one from the second charge Aug 02 15:28:10 but i heard that it is being delayed alot Aug 02 15:28:25 a free phone, kind of disappointed in this one Aug 02 15:28:25 second charge? Aug 02 15:28:43 how much was in the first charge? Aug 02 15:28:52 about half Aug 02 15:29:02 smash_: Everything is delayed and there isn't much communication from openmoko.com after you place your order. Aug 02 15:29:03 all b/s ones not w/o Aug 02 15:29:16 si02 500 Aug 02 15:29:19 or so Aug 02 15:29:30 ozarko: thats what I was asking abt. Aug 02 15:29:41 So if you do order, expect a delay. Aug 02 15:29:47 sounds not so bad. a lot of developers there Aug 02 15:30:06 any expected time for delay? Aug 02 15:30:18 it took nearly a month Aug 02 15:30:30 Rumor has it that more will be coming in a few weeks. Aug 02 15:30:31 well, ok... 3 weeks 3 days Aug 02 15:30:42 Orange ones are supposed to ship this week. Aug 02 15:30:55 or should I wait to order (ie after others start getting) Aug 02 15:31:14 It's a very frustrating process. You can ask questions and you can read the wiki, Aug 02 15:31:44 but the fact is, if you order now, no one can say when you'll get it. Aug 02 15:31:51 openmoko: 03njp * r2610 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-dialer2/ (ChangeLog src/moko-dialer.c): Aug 02 15:31:51 openmoko: 2007-08-02 Neil J. Patel Aug 02 15:31:51 openmoko: * src/moko-dialer.c: (on_incoming_call), (on_pin_requested), Aug 02 15:31:51 openmoko: (on_call_progress_changed): Aug 02 15:31:51 openmoko: Correct the debugging statements, add more to the incoming code path. Aug 02 15:32:47 smash_, we have no idea if if all the ones they made have been sold or not.. but there was a rumour that buld time per batch was about 6 weeks... but then we have no idea if/when they started building more... Aug 02 15:33:20 we /could/ assume that since they're still availalbe to buy you can get one... Aug 02 15:33:36 but nobody knows.. tiddley pom Aug 02 15:33:45 hi! Aug 02 15:34:42 all those in the above link actually got it? Then its a hopeful thing. Aug 02 15:35:06 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/P1_Owners Aug 02 15:35:07 when do we get gllin :( Aug 02 15:35:12 Psi_, !! Aug 02 15:35:18 * mrface needs a "fix" ;) Aug 02 15:35:27 Psi_, see above commit for on_pin_requested ;-) Aug 02 15:35:38 smash_: only those that have an entry in the last column Aug 02 15:35:51 smash_: I ordered on 12 July, and have received no update on when I can expect a shipment. Aug 02 15:35:58 sorry to bother you, I have a quick question about the GSM part of OpenMoko :) I suppose it's handled by GSMd, but I'd like to be sure before buying the phone: does GSMd handle the A5 encryption? Aug 02 15:35:59 Kryczek: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (and also SH1_FAQ, Neo1973, Developer_preview and Neo1973_Hardware#GTA01Bv4 pages) (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) Aug 02 15:36:06 smash_: and a few more who have not entered themselves in this list Aug 02 15:36:12 meaning A5/1, A5/2 etc Aug 02 15:36:29 ozamosi, the people with actual phones ordered minutes after the store opened; trust me, we all had issues actually getting our phones Aug 02 15:36:36 So put in your order, but expect a frustrating process. Aug 02 15:37:03 daMaestro is right Aug 02 15:37:05 Oh, and if you're not in the US, it might take even longer. Aug 02 15:37:15 Kryczek you can look at the source code Aug 02 15:37:28 but at the actual state this is not implemented Aug 02 15:37:40 sorry, my question was vague Aug 02 15:37:46 (i'm not a native english speaker) Aug 02 15:38:04 ozarka: ok Aug 02 15:38:08 woglinde: you're saying indeed that right now it is not implemented, but, *could* it be implemented? Aug 02 15:38:16 or the hardware doesnt allow for it? Aug 02 15:38:21 as I met on another linux-based phone Aug 02 15:38:23 kryczeck oh Aug 02 15:38:38 hm okay now understand your question Aug 02 15:38:42 that other phone had the GSM part as a totally separate system Aug 02 15:38:50 kryczeck please look at the wikiside Aug 02 15:39:05 there is the version of the ti- gsm-module mentioned Aug 02 15:39:11 maybee you can google the spec Aug 02 15:39:19 woglinde: I did ofc before asking ;) Aug 02 15:39:22 found "ciphering indication state" Aug 02 15:39:27 but no mention of A5 Aug 02 15:39:46 ok, i guess i'll do that as a last recourse.. Aug 02 15:39:55 i was hoping maybe a developer would know already :) Aug 02 15:39:57 thx Aug 02 15:40:17 Kryczek hm than better you write at the mailing list neo1973-hardware Aug 02 15:40:21 http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/ Aug 02 15:40:41 so your questions isnt lost Aug 02 15:41:33 ok, I will this week-end :) Aug 02 15:41:38 thx woglinde Aug 02 15:41:44 anyone know what the recommended rootfs and kernel image (uImage) is? Aug 02 15:41:58 july 28+ just is not working well for me Aug 02 15:42:18 the look much, much better... but are not functioning as well Aug 02 15:43:26 wish I knew Aug 02 15:47:30 daMaestro: I just built my own, figured it was easier Aug 02 15:47:54 I suspect that you aren't going to have anything resembling a stable build for quite a while yet so may as well go cutting-edge Aug 02 15:47:58 Kryczek: A5 encyption is handled in chipset firmware and not exposed on the neo Aug 02 15:48:25 jgm, 1) is your sound card recognized? 2) does dialer start? 3) did you use mokomakefile? Aug 02 15:48:25 writchie ah good to know Aug 02 15:49:00 i really like the new menus.. the images are a nice touch and being able to open the menu with a finger action is nice Aug 02 15:49:38 being able to activate/deactivate the gsm modem is nice; but dialer wont even start for me with these images... and boot up is just nasty Aug 02 15:49:47 Writchie: woglinde: I just found this in the wiki: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GSM02.07#1.26_Ciphering_Indicator and that's already great for me :) Aug 02 15:54:40 UK: http://www.t-mobile.co.uk/shop/mobile-phones/phones/pay-as-you-go/all/1/ - the page is confusing. It says 'free web browsing' and then below it 'when bought with 10 pound top-up. Aug 02 15:54:56 But I can't seem to find any mention in the T&Cs. Aug 02 15:55:20 daMaestro: 1) yes (at least I can play an mp3 through it) 2) Yes (although I haven't tested dialing) 3) yes Aug 02 15:55:59 SpeedEvil, look at no plan be the flex plan Aug 02 15:56:15 SpeedEvil, it just came out 4 days ago Aug 02 15:56:48 You mean flext? Aug 02 15:57:29 hmm looking at the uk site.. that seems to be what it's called Aug 02 15:57:38 over here in the US they are non-contract plans Aug 02 15:58:11 Ok - that's not what I'm asking. PAYG - the UK term is what I'm going for - contract doesn't make sense for me. Aug 02 15:59:39 It however mentions free web browsing if you buy a phone and top it up by 10 pounds - but it does not specify any other details. Aug 02 16:01:08 Contract isn't an option for me ATM - bad credit, and little cash. Aug 02 16:12:34 where can I find the u-boot images for the "qemuarm" target ? Aug 02 16:12:34 fro1: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (and also SH1_FAQ, Neo1973, Developer_preview and Neo1973_Hardware#GTA01Bv4 pages) (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) Aug 02 16:12:42 are the irc logs hosted anywhere? Aug 02 16:12:52 Hello Lord Aug 02 16:13:19 fro1, they should be provided by the openmoko/download.sh script Aug 02 16:15:13 what s*cks most, the UPS guy with my Neo was at my appartment, but of course I was at work... Aug 02 16:15:58 daMaestro: thanks Aug 02 16:16:37 I can't find the logs, are we not logging IRC? Aug 02 16:16:53 There are logs. Aug 02 16:16:56 * SpeedEvil forgets where. Aug 02 16:17:44 oh cool Aug 02 16:17:50 i log, but am not always online Aug 02 16:18:06 Kero, you didnt add information regarding when you will be in your den? Aug 02 16:18:29 how do you log, is there a / command? Aug 02 16:18:38 what client? Aug 02 16:18:42 irssi Aug 02 16:18:47 i dunno Aug 02 16:19:16 can any GTK 2.0 widgets be used with OpenMoko, or only the ones included in the package be used? Aug 02 16:19:26 they block it at work so I have to ssh and do it in a shell Aug 02 16:19:39 it would be easy if I was using pidgin Aug 02 16:19:55 is there a streaming mp4 viewer in openmoko yet? Aug 02 16:20:06 i thought it might be a standard irc command, I guess I need to look at irssi docs Aug 02 16:20:21 pjz, i doubt it Aug 02 16:20:40 pjz: no. Aug 02 16:20:42 Not core. Aug 02 16:20:46 pjz, the current media player is based on gstreamer (which you can add a plugin to) Aug 02 16:20:46 mplayer will work. Aug 02 16:20:50 To a limited extent. Aug 02 16:21:02 gstreamer has mp4 support? i thought it did Aug 02 16:21:08 with the non-Free plugins Aug 02 16:21:19 I've got a webcam-as-babymonitor that I'd like to be able to point it at eventually :) Aug 02 16:21:27 apparently irssi auto logs Aug 02 16:21:30 mjpeg would be good too Aug 02 16:21:36 Sup3rkiddo: add info where? Aug 02 16:22:05 is it possible to shut down X on the neo? e.g. over ssh Aug 02 16:22:25 Kero, you know when filling out the form, i think i remember a field for additional information Aug 02 16:23:14 thomasg: killall :) Aug 02 16:23:18 Sup3rkiddo: I didn't know Jul 9 when I'd be available or not. Aug 02 16:23:27 wow, setting up OE looks like a mess, I just wanted the u-boot images, damnit Aug 02 16:23:31 Sup3rkiddo: last week would have been easy, since my pair programming partner was on holiday Aug 02 16:23:31 ewon, whats the name of the X processS? :) Aug 02 16:23:40 Sup3rkiddo: this week is nearly impossible. Aug 02 16:23:56 Kero, tough luck mate....happy hacking when it arrives Aug 02 16:25:06 thomasg, matchbox? Aug 02 16:25:25 mbuf, Aug 02 16:25:49 Sup3rkiddo, yes Aug 02 16:26:05 mbuf, yes, that works, thx Aug 02 16:26:25 kero, you could get it delivery to my place.. but you're in den haag? Aug 02 16:26:25 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[P1_Owners]] [[Neo1973_GTA02_Hardware]] [[Neo1973_compatible_cellphone_providers]] [[Talk:OpenMoko2007.2]] [[OpenMoko2007.2]] Aug 02 16:26:31 thomasg, check /etc/matchbox/session Aug 02 16:27:08 FuzzyCat == ScaredyCat? Aug 02 16:27:51 FuzzyCat: eindhoven Aug 02 16:28:12 FuzzyCat: I have an 0800 number that I'll try now ;) Aug 02 16:29:04 MokoMakeFile uses the "-M" neo target for qemu, but the wiki sez it's possible to use the default Integrator target, how do I do that ? Aug 02 16:29:31 Hallelujah! Aug 02 16:31:00 fro1, from the documentation setting MACHINE=qemuarm will do that Aug 02 16:33:48 mbuf: yes, but there's no reference to qemuarm in the makefile, sounds fishy... Aug 02 16:42:54 thomasg, also check http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Window_Manager_Startup Aug 02 16:43:13 thomasg: killall xinit Aug 02 16:43:20 will shut down complete x server Aug 02 17:04:01 Villa84dog Aug 02 17:04:11 Hello Lord Aug 02 17:09:54 which patches in packages/gsm/libgsmd_svn.bb are still needed for SVN head version of the library? applying them fails currently. (see http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/OpenMoko2007.2#Build_issues) Aug 02 17:13:10 cyphi, et laittais salasanoja irssii :) Aug 02 17:19:55 Does anyone know of a nice compressing differential dictionary web compressor? Basically keep local copy of large numbers of pages, and if you go to ebay.co.uk, you only get sent the diff since you last hit it. Aug 02 17:21:30 SpeedEvil, are you the one working on multilingual online dictionary project? Aug 02 17:21:36 No. Aug 02 17:25:30 I'm watching these YouTube "Sneak Preview!" videos from mokoNinja, and it looks like they've replaced all of the thumb-wheel widgets with kinetic scrolling. Is that for real and planned for the final product, or just a research thing? Aug 02 17:25:30 malsyne1: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (and also SH1_FAQ, Neo1973, Developer_preview and Neo1973_Hardware#GTA01Bv4 pages) (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) Aug 02 17:26:05 malsyne1: ive heard its the forth-coming UI. n Aug 02 17:26:25 sweet. Aug 02 17:28:39 malsyne1, link? Aug 02 17:28:57 mbuf: all the mojoNinja videos are here http://youtube.com/user/mokoNinja Aug 02 17:29:16 don-o, ok, thanks Aug 02 17:30:47 http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=mokoNinja&p=are Aug 02 17:30:49 oops Aug 02 17:31:17 that final "are" should just be the letter "r". Gaim's auto-replace was a little overeager. Aug 02 17:33:14 i like to use the screen in landscape mode Aug 02 17:35:35 rschuster: did you review the commit-log? LaF0rge did post to the gsmd-ML saying he merged "a couple of the more obvious patches". (see http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/gsmd-devel/2007-July/000160.html) Aug 02 17:38:00 rschuster: as a workaround you could try pinning the gsm-package to svn rev 2575. Aug 02 17:40:24 | checking for WEBKITGTK... Package WebKitGdk was not found in the pkg-config search path. Aug 02 17:40:35 what is the needed epkg-config-path for webkitgtk? Aug 02 17:41:48 If my credit was finally charged..does that mean they actually have a phone for me now ? Aug 02 17:42:13 It could just mean that they were short on lunch money today... Aug 02 17:42:31 that was my feeling :-P Aug 02 17:45:19 codyl, after it was charged it was about 3 days before i got my shipment notification Aug 02 17:46:57 daMaestro, heh thanks Aug 02 17:52:27 hmm 2388 doesn't seem too stable Aug 02 17:52:43 i'm going back to 2350 Aug 02 17:54:07 http://gstaedtner.net/bilder/neo1973/dsc02300.jpg Aug 02 17:54:21 (no modem/isdn/umts/gprs users please ^^) Aug 02 17:58:53 grr :) Aug 02 17:58:55 * * OM Bug 679 has been created by abraxa(AT)dar-clan.de Aug 02 17:58:56 * * Some 2007.2 theme icons misnamed Aug 02 17:58:57 * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=679 Aug 02 18:00:37 * codyl cody grumbles something about having to wait 3 days for his phone to be shipped 15 miles Aug 02 18:00:54 lol Aug 02 18:01:13 I wish the openmoko would have a more professional look to it ;( Aug 02 18:01:17 or rather the ne01973 Aug 02 18:01:25 codyl: dude, reroute it to me, and I'll have 'em send you mine if/when it ships ;) Aug 02 18:01:35 You don't like the pool-toy look? :D Aug 02 18:01:42 noooooo Aug 02 18:02:00 looks more durable than an Apple product! Aug 02 18:02:02 codyl: Just go down and get it. Aug 02 18:02:02 Actually, the black/white color scheme is much better than the orange, IMO Aug 02 18:02:06 no it doesnt Aug 02 18:02:14 iphone looks like you dont wanna drop it Aug 02 18:02:28 neo looks like you wanna throw it into a sandbox and build it a house Aug 02 18:02:38 I picked an orange one, thinking I'd probably also buy a black v2 one later Aug 02 18:02:57 ozarka, anyone know the actual openmoko contact here in the baby area ? Aug 02 18:03:11 I ordered an orange one too. Aug 02 18:03:55 codyl: I'm sure it's a secret location. No one wants geeks with pitchforks in their parking lot. Aug 02 18:04:16 Professional looking phones are for bankers. Aug 02 18:04:28 Would we really resort to pitchforks? Or just angry words about sim cards and shipping? Aug 02 18:04:31 bankers get shitload of money,how is that bad Aug 02 18:04:32 5020 Brandin Ct, Fremont Aug 02 18:04:48 ooh, the secret is out Aug 02 18:05:04 (right off of 880) Aug 02 18:05:12 I was picturing hordes in brown robes, brandishing authentic light sabres from Sharper Image... Aug 02 18:05:18 You have your mission, codyl. Aug 02 18:05:22 LOL Aug 02 18:05:23 phhhhtttt!!! hehe! Aug 02 18:05:46 though I'd choose to use two of my kids' plastic ones myself ;) Aug 02 18:05:46 I would go, but it's too dangerous to cross west Texas this time of year. Aug 02 18:05:49 probably get defeated by the front desk before I reached anyone of importance Aug 02 18:06:28 are most people building with mokomakefile? Aug 02 18:06:34 and not flashing from buildhost? Aug 02 18:07:14 I just flashed from buildhost to get started. Aug 02 18:07:36 yeah, same here... but so far most of the images are flaky Aug 02 18:07:50 each one has it's own special quark, and cool feature Aug 02 18:07:51 lol Aug 02 18:08:20 true. YOu'd have to follow SVN to know what quirks are where. Aug 02 18:08:31 obvious question that's probably asked/answered in my absences... is the phone making calls for anyone, given a working SIM? Aug 02 18:08:35 the one i'm using now has a lot ui fixes, but as an example, refuses to shut down Aug 02 18:08:53 ashnazg, i've not gotten audio to work... but i can send and take calls, yes Aug 02 18:09:19 daMaestro: as in, can't speak, can't hear, but phone call connects? Aug 02 18:09:32 daMaestro, multiple times? Aug 02 18:10:03 ashnazg, yes Aug 02 18:10:08 mbuf, ? Aug 02 18:10:35 daMaestro: good deal... I'm guessing the audio will prove easier to sort out than calling would have been... Aug 02 18:11:32 yeah, gsmd still needs a lot of work Aug 02 18:11:39 but it is actually ""working"" Aug 02 18:11:55 Why isn't using DBus..sigh.. Aug 02 18:12:01 daMaestro, without gsm crashing? Aug 02 18:12:11 i think gsmd talks to the ui via dbux, codyl Aug 02 18:12:19 mbuf, off and on it will crash Aug 02 18:12:31 then they've fixed it..I'll have to look at the code again Aug 02 18:12:43 so you are getting an actual "incoming call" dialog or something? Aug 02 18:12:54 yea Aug 02 18:12:58 cool Aug 02 18:13:02 :-) Aug 02 18:13:07 iirc it had caller id too ;-) Aug 02 18:13:13 Nice Aug 02 18:13:13 maybe not.. maybe that was the shell Aug 02 18:13:21 no, dbus is not used atm afaik Aug 02 18:13:32 meh, i might be wrong Aug 02 18:13:33 well soon you might even be able answer the call! Aug 02 18:13:38 i know the goal is to use dbus Aug 02 18:13:42 yeah Aug 02 18:13:51 codyl, i can answer the call Aug 02 18:13:56 codyl, just not hear it or talk to it Aug 02 18:13:57 lol Aug 02 18:13:58 and hear someone talking..? Aug 02 18:14:00 ya lol Aug 02 18:14:57 i really need to setup the build system Aug 02 18:15:03 so i can learn how to use and then package it Aug 02 18:15:21 so far all the bits i've used for OM i've packaged Aug 02 18:15:34 but i just don't know enough about what goes into a build to make it a package Aug 02 18:16:01 .ipkg are easy to make Aug 02 18:16:14 good to hear Aug 02 18:16:19 i'm talking about rpm packaging Aug 02 18:16:34 i want to get prboom packaged for the neo Aug 02 18:16:36 on your own there Aug 02 18:16:46 i know how to package rpm Aug 02 18:17:25 hoo, i just realized, i can finally have a good screensaver on my phone. gonna port the Galaxy screensaver from xlockmore Aug 02 18:17:39 it might be cpu and battery expensive but it is worth it Aug 02 18:19:10 my only screensaver will be screen and backlights off Aug 02 18:20:05 ditto Aug 02 18:20:25 oh i have cpufreq running a tiny bit - sets the clocks to 200mhz at boot and the serial port's scrambled for a while and then settles Aug 02 18:20:41 i don't have it trying to boot off nand yet - that didn't work last time i tried even at 266 Aug 02 18:20:55 what is the maximum clock? Aug 02 18:21:02 266 Aug 02 18:21:03 does anyone know if it is easier to build on x86_64 or x86? Aug 02 18:21:12 x86 Aug 02 18:21:19 woglinde: that sounds plenty enough for just about anything Aug 02 18:21:30 raynet wait for gta02 Aug 02 18:21:39 woglinde: waiting for my gta01 :) Aug 02 18:21:57 it is now in sweden in transit to finland, but still they say it will take 4 days more Aug 02 18:22:19 raynet they are transporting with elch? Aug 02 18:22:48 woglinde: with snails i think Aug 02 18:22:50 hm let me find the english word for rentier Aug 02 18:22:57 reindeer? Aug 02 18:23:00 elk? Aug 02 18:23:01 moose? Aug 02 18:23:16 ah Aug 02 18:23:18 Ice impala? Aug 02 18:23:19 reindeer Aug 02 18:23:23 okay Aug 02 18:23:57 here at Assembly'07 computer festival i was just in a seminar about IMGUIs (immediate mode) and that is something i like to test on neo too Aug 02 18:24:29 whats so special? Aug 02 18:24:29 might be too cpu intensive for any complex use, but would work for simple guis like games Aug 02 18:24:57 woglinde: here is the material from that seminar http://sol.gfxile.net/imgui/index.html Aug 02 18:25:14 hm, a german news-magazine (online) reported about poky linux, a OE- and gtk-based linuxplatform for mobile devices with support for nokia-n800 and fic neo gta01 -.- Aug 02 18:26:22 hello Aug 02 18:26:42 hulo Aug 02 18:26:45 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Main_Page]] [[OpenMoko2007.2]] [[P1_Owners]] Aug 02 18:27:04 reindeer hopefully I will remeber this Aug 02 18:27:07 wish I'd made that change :( Aug 02 18:28:31 pH5: could you please invite me to the #. i forgot the name... Aug 02 18:28:33 what is the guestimate for gta02? Aug 02 18:28:43 this year? Aug 02 18:28:44 next? Aug 02 18:28:45 yes Aug 02 18:28:51 october Aug 02 18:29:00 but I belevie it will be later Aug 02 18:29:03 so i'll get one for xmas Aug 02 18:29:16 atleast then the UPS reindeer mail will work Aug 02 18:31:16 well, if GTA02 comes this year, by 2008 Q2 we might have a very impressive phone Aug 02 18:31:57 hmmm, just saw the "supported phones" page lists the Treo 650... might have to give that a go while I wait for my gta1... Aug 02 18:32:09 Kensan: thanks for the hint. will update that later Aug 02 18:32:53 Kensan: openmoko-libs doesnt compile right now. so, new problem ... probably I should just wait until things have stabilized a bit ... Aug 02 18:34:16 hi rschuster Aug 02 18:34:31 rschuster I will review your patches later Aug 02 18:35:09 woglinde: thanks. I already found a problem :| ... Aug 02 18:35:26 woglinde: add libtst to the dependencies of classpath Aug 02 18:35:36 woglinde: I mean libxtst Aug 02 18:35:37 libtst? Aug 02 18:35:40 oh Aug 02 18:40:18 i'm getting a lot of jffs2 errors Aug 02 18:40:43 with all but the /latests images from build host Aug 02 18:41:21 maestro on the mmc or on host flash? Aug 02 18:41:46 on the neo Aug 02 18:42:05 not good Aug 02 18:42:07 hm Aug 02 18:42:17 you could try to erase rootfs first Aug 02 18:42:21 and flash again Aug 02 18:42:35 how do i erase it? Aug 02 18:42:39 hm in uboot Aug 02 18:42:49 I think it is in the wiki somewhere Aug 02 18:43:02 oh, the "factory default"? Aug 02 18:43:04 but be aware not to clean up the flase nand Aug 02 18:43:08 hm no Aug 02 18:43:15 nand erase or seimilar Aug 02 18:43:15 woglinde, have a new problem: | No package 'WebKitGdk' found Aug 02 18:43:27 thomasg *sigh* Aug 02 18:43:44 hehe Aug 02 18:44:02 woglinde, do you have a recommendation on what kernel and rootfs to try? Aug 02 18:44:21 damaestro not really depends what you want Aug 02 18:44:41 the latest with the old guy around 4.7 has nonworking gmsd Aug 02 18:44:44 there is no nand erase in uboot Aug 02 18:44:44 gsmd Aug 02 18:45:08 closest i see is factory reset Aug 02 18:45:11 damaestro you nee to get uboot in a shell Aug 02 18:45:17 not the bootmenu Aug 02 18:45:43 i don't have a jtag board.. do i need one? Aug 02 18:45:49 no you dont Aug 02 18:46:05 switch to seriell console support Aug 02 18:46:17 and start your favorit terminal program Aug 02 18:47:08 rschuster: it seems that LaF0rge will take a look at the gsm-patches over the weekend. Aug 02 18:48:08 daemaestro Aug 02 18:48:10 -> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Flashing_openmoko Aug 02 18:48:15 Kensan: ok Aug 02 18:48:47 do minicom /dev/ttyACM0, then nand erase clean rootfs Aug 02 18:49:47 rschuster: Are most of your problems endian-related? Aug 02 19:01:28 Hmm. I just noticed that MokoMakeFile has the same initials as Master Mind Flayer. Aug 02 19:02:18 * XorA|gone sends a beholder after SpeedEvil Aug 02 19:02:24 or Make My F'in day Aug 02 19:02:52 Mail My Fscking phone... ? Aug 02 19:03:14 mjr - Did you file a bug on your sdcard IO errors? Aug 02 19:07:31 MokoMakefile tells me: | No package 'WebKitGdk' found| Perhaps you should add the directory containing `WebKitGdk.pc' Aug 02 19:07:47 the problem: there is no such file on my HD Aug 02 19:17:05 thomasg: when did you last update? It seems like bug #671. Aug 02 19:25:51 guten abend Aug 02 19:26:01 good afternoon :) Aug 02 19:29:04 ohayou gozaimasu :) Aug 02 19:31:45 konbanwa Aug 02 19:32:42 Odd. http://www.t-mobile.co.uk/shop/mobile-phones/phones/pay-as-you-go/all/1/ - does IE or something else than FF 1.5 show "free web browsing for 10 days" not just "free web browsing" at the top? Aug 02 19:33:51 It seems to be ignoring Aug 02 19:34:45 no IE, but epiphany also shows the 10 days Aug 02 19:34:57 SpeedEvil: seems so. Opera also shows the 10 days. Aug 02 19:34:58 FF 2.0.0.6: I only see "Free web browsing", but highlight/copy/paste shows "Free web browsing for 10 days" Aug 02 19:35:27 FF 2.0.0.5, linux, I see the 10 days without highlighting Aug 02 19:35:46 Odd. Aug 02 19:36:00 Oh well. Aug 02 19:36:11 · Free web browsing for 10 days
Aug 02 19:36:12 Seems I've got 10 days to try web-stuff on my new SIM. Aug 02 19:37:01 hehe.. this is commented out right below it:
  • Free 10 days web browsing
    • Aug 02 19:37:35 Style-sheet problem? Aug 02 19:39:46 Now, if I save the HTML locally, it shows up just fine... probably is CSS problem. Aug 02 19:40:29 Oh well. I'm returning it if it doesn't have 'free web browsing' I diddn't see any limits :) Aug 02 19:40:35 Sigh. Aug 02 19:40:47 screen-print now... Aug 02 19:41:02 before someone else complains and they fix it... Aug 02 19:42:36 shows up properly in IE 6 Aug 02 19:47:01 hi Aug 02 19:49:17 can you give more detail on the GPU than on http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973_Hardware ? Aug 02 19:49:18 RzR: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (and also SH1_FAQ, Neo1973, Developer_preview and Neo1973_Hardware#GTA01Bv4 pages) (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) Aug 02 19:49:48 RzR: afaik, the P1 'GPU' is just a framebuffer. Aug 02 19:49:57 _slightly_ more. Aug 02 19:50:03 It can do virtual screens. Aug 02 19:50:08 But that's it. Aug 02 19:50:11 +3D Aug 02 19:50:14 And colour pallette mode. Aug 02 19:50:23 no the 3d gpu comes with gta02 Aug 02 19:50:24 pfft, they'se newfangled "inventions" ;) Aug 02 19:50:30 on upcoming version maybe Aug 02 19:50:33 The new one is NDAd. Aug 02 19:50:53 SpeedEvil: yay pallette tricks \o/ Aug 02 19:51:04 It actually doesn't make no sense. Aug 02 19:51:14 It reduces memory bandwidth by 2/3 Aug 02 19:51:22 * Stephmw double negates the negated sentence Aug 02 19:51:25 which will save some 40mW of battery. Aug 02 19:51:48 how many colors with palette mode? Aug 02 19:51:52 256 Aug 02 19:52:03 It would need to be automated somehow. Aug 02 19:52:08 16 is nostalgic, but a little painful nowadays. Aug 02 19:52:10 that might work with many GUI screens Aug 02 19:52:23 Especially with one window maximised all the time. Aug 02 19:52:25 only photos/video etc would need more colors Aug 02 19:52:49 SpeedEvil: automatic changes of the entire pallete you mean? Aug 02 19:52:56 Sort of. Aug 02 19:53:04 dithering is not the problem. Aug 02 19:53:06 perhaps reserve 16-32 colors for the gui and rest for apps Aug 02 19:53:27 Basically something like fbvnc Aug 02 19:53:41 with 256 colors, connected to the main X server. Aug 02 19:53:48 and automated switching. Aug 02 19:53:55 But - this is only for P1 hardware. Aug 02 19:54:00 It's a modest amount of work. Aug 02 19:54:04 doesn't 256 color X11 reserve X colors for system and then switch rest when you focus to a window? Aug 02 19:54:08 i recall it worked like that Aug 02 19:54:18 There are a couple of ways to set it up. Aug 02 19:54:31 with fullscreen apps there is no problem Aug 02 19:57:37 In the ancient time, I used 256 color X11 a lot. It worked nicely. Aug 02 19:58:04 Elrond: yup, just a small palette artefact when switching apps and X11 dithered the other apps with new colors Aug 02 19:58:16 i still use 256 colors X11 with my Sun Ultra 1 Aug 02 19:59:12 Oh, and one could run apps in "own palette" mode, where they took over the whole palette and the window decorations looked scarry. Aug 02 19:59:37 ah yes, i remember that Aug 02 19:59:57 But it has all been done. So nothing really "new" there. Aug 02 20:00:18 floyd-steinberd is our friend here Aug 02 20:00:21 berg Aug 02 20:00:27 Right. Aug 02 20:01:09 256 colors do make subpixel antialising kinda difficult in some cases Aug 02 20:01:15 Only problem: Some bad written apps do only work in 24/32bit mode. Aug 02 20:01:26 subpixel antialiasing? Aug 02 20:01:30 On a 300dpi screen? Aug 02 20:01:35 SpeedEvil: sure Aug 02 20:01:36 raynet - We don't need antialiasing really. Aug 02 20:01:54 I think only if you use it at 10cm or under. Aug 02 20:02:11 how else i can run Irssi with 400x200 chars terminal? Aug 02 20:02:25 hehe. ;o) Aug 02 20:02:26 virtual screen mode Aug 02 20:03:08 in any case, text written with subpixel antialising does look better than without, no matter what dpi Aug 02 20:03:25 Not over a certain DPI Aug 02 20:04:02 always Aug 02 20:04:24 when using small fonts Aug 02 20:04:52 You do not use small fonts. Aug 02 20:04:53 IMO. Aug 02 20:04:58 with small fonts, I prefer clear lines and *no* antialiasing Aug 02 20:05:01 10*16 is about the rational limit for normal use. Aug 02 20:05:23 5x3 is good :) Aug 02 20:05:34 5x3 *bitmaped* Aug 02 20:05:46 what else is there :) Aug 02 20:05:49 none of this newfnangled antialising :P Aug 02 20:05:57 10*16 chars on the display, I mean. Aug 02 20:06:07 There was a bug on bugzilla about disabling antialiasing for fonts... I don't remember, what the guy said, how it looks. Aug 02 20:06:13 Anyway, I'm heading for food. Aug 02 20:06:17 WAve. Aug 02 20:07:45 food, what a good idea, gotta test the food here in Assembly Aug 02 20:08:13 * SpeedEvil wonders if you can do pizza in reflow ovens. Aug 02 20:08:57 reflow? those hotair recycle ovens? Aug 02 20:11:00 SpeedEvil: google says yes? Aug 02 20:11:14 * mwester suggests that we just select an alphabet with square letters and square corners, then we don't need no anti-aliasing stuff. Aug 02 20:11:30 * SpeedEvil was assuming assembly was electronics assembly. Aug 02 20:11:34 mwester: urgh... nooooooooooooo Aug 02 20:12:09 SpeedEvil: no, it is the biggest computer festival in skandinavia (i think) Aug 02 20:12:28 though nowadays it seems to be more and more like lanparty Aug 02 20:15:12 Not that that's a bad thing. Aug 02 20:21:15 http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20070802-not-one-gphone-but-many-in-the-works-report.html Aug 02 20:26:25 (script) planet: Daniel Willmann: GUADEC recap http://www.totalueberwachung.de/blog/articles/2007/08/02/guadec-recap Aug 02 20:26:45 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[User:Risto]] [[P1_Owners]] [[Flashing_openmoko]] [[Wiki_Issues]] [[Carriers/Rogers]] [[Carriers/Fido]] [[Carriers]] [[Carriers/ATT]] Aug 02 20:47:58 my brain.. this code hurts my brain... Aug 02 20:48:02 hmmm...kinda quiet. Anyone know anything about PIN/PUK numbers and ATT Sims? Aug 02 20:48:32 Bah, no movement on my package since 11AM yesterday :( Aug 02 20:52:41 when you do AT+CPIN= do you put the PIN number in quotes? Aug 02 20:53:23 moko-bunny: Looking at what people wrote in the channel I would say yes Aug 02 20:53:46 okay...thanks....cranky SIM card anyways :( Aug 02 20:55:46 Arachnid: yes, in quotes Aug 02 20:56:03 Arachnid: is it not accepting the pin on the Neo? Aug 02 20:56:16 does it work on other phones? Aug 02 20:56:48 hehe, well there is the small matter of my dad not knowing what the PIN # is :) Aug 02 20:56:55 balrog-kun!! :-) Aug 02 20:57:33 boing Aug 02 20:58:25 hi Elrond :) Aug 02 20:58:26 but I've tried the PUK# he has....and well, it looks like maybe it's one of the SIMs that don't work SKU 63512 code G and vendor 3001 Aug 02 20:58:42 still works in the original phone, though Aug 02 20:58:52 moko-bunny: does he have some other phone that knows the PIN or something? :p Aug 02 21:00:02 yeah, I guess the phone knows the PIN...have no idea how to get it out of there...tried the 2 default cingular pin #s Aug 02 21:00:10 in most phones there's an option in the menu to tell the SIM to disable the PIN authentication Aug 02 21:00:11 Hey all Aug 02 21:00:31 my SIM never asked me for PIN on any phone Aug 02 21:01:16 neither on the Neo, i think i must have disabled the PIN when i used the SIM for the first time Aug 02 21:01:17 cool...I'll give that a try tonight...have to go back to work. I did get a co-workers SIM to work and it's also an ATT 64k smartchip...will get SKU from that Aug 02 21:02:20 thanks balrog-kun...ttyl Aug 02 21:43:43 Just got my phone :) Aug 02 21:43:47 Can't get the microsd card in :/ Aug 02 21:44:45 * SpeedEvil passes Arachnid a hammer. Aug 02 21:48:31 Arachnid, whats the problem? Aug 02 21:48:57 I was wondering why everybody is so confused about the sim and microsd. for me it was intuitive Aug 02 21:49:47 thomasg: probably because they are like 'omg! omg! w00t! it finally arrived! make it boot! make it boot rigth now!!1' Aug 02 21:50:14 thomasg: It really needs a diagram Aug 02 21:50:24 It wasn't obvious to me that you slide the card into the cover then flip it down Aug 02 21:50:35 As opposed to laying the card on the contacts then putting the cover over it and locking it Aug 02 21:51:07 thomasg: that arrangement can be confusing if you haven't used it before :) Aug 02 21:51:16 thomasg: esp as it's so different to existing phones Aug 02 21:52:55 Arachnid, lol Aug 02 21:52:58 Arachnid, same here Aug 02 21:53:02 Arachnid, took me about 5 minutes Aug 02 21:53:08 if you want, I'll do video :) Aug 02 21:53:16 Arachnid, and that was *after* figuring out how to open the damn case Aug 02 21:54:08 hehe, for me that was a thing of 1 minute at all :) Aug 02 21:57:07 ok, I did a vid, if you want to see it :) Aug 02 21:59:41 * Arachnid now has to wait ages for the root image to download Aug 02 22:07:29 thomasg: Put it on the wiki maybe? Aug 02 22:09:02 abraxa_, how big may it be? Aug 02 22:09:05 its about 25 mb Aug 02 22:09:14 uncompressed mpeg2 Aug 02 22:09:55 Put it on youtube and link from the wiki? Aug 02 22:10:17 youtube sucks, but I could put it on google video. but the quality is shitty, too Aug 02 22:10:53 guess with xvid I can get it down to 10 mb Aug 02 22:11:16 thomasg: Aren't youtube and google video the same thing now? Aug 02 22:12:03 ozarka, no, they arent Aug 02 22:12:36 youtube is pretty slow and has a really poor quality, google video lists youtube videos, too - but they have their own servers (faster) and imho better quality Aug 02 22:15:08 ok, it's 15 mb mpeg2 now, after compression definately far under 10 mb Aug 02 22:18:49 A youtube or google video (or similar) video will be easier for most people to watch Aug 02 22:19:11 Doesn't seem worth the effort to provide anything else given the requirements (it's short and quality doesn't matter much) Aug 02 22:19:46 never uploaded a video to such a hoster Aug 02 22:20:19 It's pretty simple, or all the people uploading stupid videos of their cats wouldn't be able to figure out how ;) Aug 02 22:20:32 ah, mom, have a old google mail account, should be enough for google video login Aug 02 22:26:03 daMaestro, thanks Aug 02 22:26:11 did you get your audio working? Aug 02 22:26:17 i got mine going Aug 02 22:26:50 Psi_, no Aug 02 22:26:53 Psi_, what build are you using? Aug 02 22:27:05 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[USB_Networking]] [[Building_Gadget_USB_Module]] [[Carriers]] [[Reader]] [[Neo1973_compatible_cellphone_providers]] [[Carriers/ATT]] Aug 02 22:27:20 * daMaestro goes to look at att changes Aug 02 22:27:21 from chooseopen openmoko-devel-image-fic-gta01-20070727221247.rootfs.jffs2 uImage-2.6.21.6-moko10-r1_0_0_2388_0-fic-gta01.bin Aug 02 22:28:06 i got it to play an mp3 and also got audio for a call using earphone headset Aug 02 22:28:08 What's the difference between uImage "moko10" and "moko11"? Aug 02 22:28:17 wow! sims that are working!! Aug 02 22:28:18 w00t Aug 02 22:28:52 I was doing some calls today, works pretty good - even if the alsa state files needs some work :) Aug 02 22:29:10 ive still never got it to make a call using the dialer app Aug 02 22:29:18 Psi_: Did you have to use AT commands? Aug 02 22:29:26 yep Aug 02 22:29:28 heh. Aug 02 22:29:29 using cu -l Aug 02 22:29:34 Psi_, now.. see.. i've gotten it to use the dialer app Aug 02 22:29:41 * Arachnid isn't sure he has much time for messing around, now that he's got his phone :/ Aug 02 22:29:50 Something fairly urgent has come up since I ordered. :/ Aug 02 22:30:01 daMaestro, i suspect its got something to do with the pin code Aug 02 22:30:19 Arachnid: that's fine, by the time you're free again maybe it will be able to actually make calls reliably etc :) Aug 02 22:30:44 Stupid question. Are there any general purpose distributions compatible with the Neo1973? Aug 02 22:30:50 Psi_, do any of the builds from choose open match sha1sums from the buildhost? Aug 02 22:30:59 Psi_, do you know who is building for choose open? Aug 02 22:31:05 So if I just need a random small binary, I can scp it, rather than building. Aug 02 22:31:06 no idea Aug 02 22:31:09 are they approved builds? trusted source? Aug 02 22:31:16 so, for the guys who cannot put in the sim or the microsd: http://video.google.de/videoplay?docid=-8343770443102960945&hl=de (Arachnid, this is for you :P) Aug 02 22:31:27 i'm really thinking of just setting up a vm to build from and get the build sys packaged Aug 02 22:31:35 thomasg, nice. Aug 02 22:31:50 thomasg, you should add that to: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Getting_Started_with_your_Neo1973 Aug 02 22:31:57 ok, I will Aug 02 22:33:22 * Arachnid is installing the rootfs \o/ Aug 02 22:33:29 * balrog-kun does his builds in a VM too Aug 02 22:34:40 balrog-kun, until i get any software packaged i work in a chroot or a full vm Aug 02 22:35:25 SpeedEvil - No, not really. If you need a random binary, msg me, and I'll build it for you. Unless it's X11. ;-) Aug 02 22:36:16 daMaestro: i just have a 32bit debian qemu VM set up so that i don't have to have any 32bit multilibs stuff on the host Aug 02 22:36:27 so that i can have it purely 64bit Aug 02 22:36:36 yeah, i rock fedora.. and like my multilib ;-) Aug 02 22:37:32 and as much as i would never use a debian derivative for desktop, it's just fine for a slow vm :) Aug 02 22:39:08 balrog-kun - What's wrong with debian? Aug 02 22:39:58 Elrond: lack of USE flags :p Aug 02 22:40:15 and go-faster stripes! Aug 02 22:40:46 cjb_ie: don't I know you :P Aug 02 22:41:33 ashnazg: fancy meeting you here. Aug 02 22:42:19 cjb_ie: I keep waiting for someone to accidentally say "I'm packing ashnazg's phone up now to ship"... Aug 02 22:42:35 -fuck-upstream -O6 Aug 02 22:45:21 * balrog-kun makes a note to not mention any more distro names tonight :) Aug 02 22:45:55 and lack of gcc -OMG Aug 02 22:47:00 Customs called me today. Aug 02 22:47:06 Hope they don't charge me too much. Aug 02 22:47:51 well, i'm sure they'll try and claim they're charging you precisely the right amount. Aug 02 22:48:20 It boots \o/ Aug 02 22:48:28 ups also inflicts a charge on you mmazur Aug 02 22:48:42 Are there working usb over ethernet drivers for windows for the moko? Aug 02 22:49:15 usb over ethernet? Aug 02 22:50:06 the RNDIS driver is supposed to work, i doubt anyone has tried it with Neo yet Aug 02 22:50:16 Arachnid - No. :-| Aug 02 22:50:29 balrog-kun - I tried it. It does not work. Aug 02 22:50:39 oh Aug 02 22:50:42 I even fixed up the usb-ids. Still did not work. Aug 02 22:51:06 Then I gave up and we connected the neo to freebsd. Worked out of the box. Aug 02 22:51:19 s/ I / we / Aug 02 22:51:20 Elrond meant: Then we gave up and we connected the neo to freebsd. Worked out of the box. Aug 02 22:51:42 lol Aug 02 22:53:05 usb-ethernet-emulation is damn cool :) Aug 02 22:53:16 er, ethernet over usb Aug 02 22:53:17 thomasg - Yes. :-) Aug 02 22:53:21 thomasg solved your problem? Aug 02 22:53:38 so the neo's is different to other devices that do ethernet over usb? Aug 02 22:53:49 woglinde, yeah Aug 02 22:53:59 the build environment is ready now Aug 02 22:54:01 Arachnid - In theory not. It's plain linux cdc_ether. Aug 02 22:54:22 Arachnid - And plain linux rndis. I have no idea, what's going wrong. Aug 02 22:54:39 will play around - and running enlightenment - tomorrow :) Aug 02 22:54:43 hm Aug 02 22:54:47 hehe Aug 02 22:54:51 * Arachnid thinks he might see what he can do about windows support when he has time Aug 02 22:54:58 e17 will be coming an alternative Aug 02 22:55:13 be becoming Aug 02 22:55:14 jesus Aug 02 22:55:39 re: RNDIS Aug 02 22:55:57 doesn't work on windows XP Aug 02 22:55:58 I'm more interested in using the EFL then in e17 itself. but I'm using e17 on desktop for years now (and e16 before) - so I at least will give it a try :) Aug 02 22:56:13 Writchie|away - Ahh... we were on xp. ;-) Aug 02 22:56:21 Writchie|away: Why not? I'm sure I've used other ethernet-on-usb devices on windows before... Aug 02 22:56:37 the driver won't start Aug 02 22:56:57 that's after you rewrite the inf file to get the XP stack loaded. Aug 02 22:57:13 Note: Do not point stylus at yourself and press torch button. Aug 02 22:57:35 Writchie|away: Are the drivers OSS or closed? Aug 02 22:57:37 the RNDIS gadget used to work so I will have to look at it's history to see what broke it. Aug 02 22:57:58 the windows driver are closed. Aug 02 22:58:06 the gadget drivers are open on the neo Aug 02 22:58:10 thomasg yes efl mickeyl likes it very much Aug 02 22:58:11 doh. Aug 02 22:58:44 i am going to attempt to get this all working on XP and vista Aug 02 22:59:04 along with a better USB device with serial ports and mass storage as well Aug 02 22:59:20 woglinde, I'm trying to write a on screen finger-based keyboard using edje, will see if I get it (my C skills are pretty poor) Aug 02 22:59:30 thomasg: we're going to introduce EFL into the OpenMoko platform soonihs Aug 02 22:59:34 soonish, even Aug 02 22:59:43 he mickeyl still awake Aug 02 22:59:44 mickeyl, good news, thanks :) Aug 02 22:59:44 it's not around the corner, but it will happen Aug 02 22:59:49 woglinde: jau Aug 02 22:59:55 The phone will charge when plugged into any USB port, right? Aug 02 22:59:57 mickeyl, in germany at moment? Aug 02 23:00:07 arachind no Aug 02 23:00:07 Or does it need driver support? Aug 02 23:00:07 not any USB port Aug 02 23:00:17 thomasg: yeah. for until end of August, then Denmark Aug 02 23:00:23 I have hp at work where put on front usb the phone dont load Aug 02 23:00:27 then Madrid and Zurich Aug 02 23:00:30 hehe Aug 02 23:00:37 and then vacation in Portugal Aug 02 23:00:38 Does it need driver support to charge? Aug 02 23:00:38 :D Aug 02 23:00:44 mickeyl - I hope you consider, that some people need very clean, non animated UIs to consider them usebale? :) Aug 02 23:00:47 More to the point, is there any way to tell if it's charging or not? Aug 02 23:00:52 so will any target in europe be left after that trips? :) Aug 02 23:01:07 arachind apm -minutes Aug 02 23:01:09 on console Aug 02 23:01:14 mickeyl: come to Cambridge too, see Collabora's new offices :) Aug 02 23:01:25 lol Aug 02 23:01:32 everyone wants mickeyl Aug 02 23:01:53 Robot101: i'd love to visit Cambridge! hopefully early next year Aug 02 23:02:16 "On-line: 67%" Aug 02 23:02:23 Would it say if it was charging? Aug 02 23:02:27 yes Aug 02 23:02:32 On-line Aug 02 23:02:35 is the keyword Aug 02 23:02:36 arachnid: 100mA (or 50? seems like it doesn't work) needs no software support. 500mA needs a running kernel Aug 02 23:02:41 ah Aug 02 23:02:48 mickeyl: I meant on the host Aug 02 23:02:53 ah Aug 02 23:02:56 I know about the need for support on the device Aug 02 23:02:56 yes Aug 02 23:03:06 500mA needs that the host enumerates the device Aug 02 23:03:12 and offers 500mA Aug 02 23:03:21 so, yyes Aug 02 23:03:27 it needs driver support Aug 02 23:03:31 stock USB though Aug 02 23:03:33 nothing Neo specific Aug 02 23:03:42 it will try to add new hardware Aug 02 23:03:48 windows? Aug 02 23:03:53 yes Aug 02 23:03:58 cool. we need to supply a .inf for the Neo Aug 02 23:04:05 does the neo charge while it is off Aug 02 23:04:07 i working on it Aug 02 23:04:12 Writchie: cool Aug 02 23:04:30 anthony_: yes. once 500mA has been launched, you can turn it off Aug 02 23:04:34 Cool, it charges when on the powered hub, not just when directly attached. :) Aug 02 23:04:40 imho we should be a mass storage and serial port as well as RNDIS Aug 02 23:04:57 Writchie: agreed. for the mass market release we want mass storage as default Aug 02 23:04:57 * Arachnid thinks it should be fairly simple to amend the battery status applet to show charging or not, right? Aug 02 23:05:03 i agree Aug 02 23:05:03 thank you Aug 02 23:05:16 Arachnid: my battery status applet shows charging as a power socket Aug 02 23:05:17 user's can't handle RNDIS Aug 02 23:05:18 mass storage would be definately the best Aug 02 23:05:28 mickeyl: mass storage is for puppies. :) Aug 02 23:05:31 and for me usb-ethernet :) Aug 02 23:05:40 mickeyl: Is that in a release, or did you build it yourself? Aug 02 23:05:42 they is puppies Aug 02 23:06:12 problem with doing mass storage is either you have to emulate a filesystem or disconnect it from the phone Aug 02 23:06:27 hummm... not sure if filesystem emulation would even work Aug 02 23:06:33 happycube: Why not? Aug 02 23:06:45 because if you change a file on the phone side the FAT would be changed Aug 02 23:06:58 and it would be cached on the other side... so it would be very confusing Aug 02 23:07:00 Arachnid: if this is openmoko-battery-applet, then it shows the power status as green if offline and a power socket if online. Aug 02 23:07:15 Arachnid: it's a personal image, but even the april snapshot had that Aug 02 23:07:24 mickeyl: I just get a battery icon regardless of charging status Aug 02 23:07:49 happycube: What level does usb mass storage expose devices as? Aug 02 23:07:51 Raw blocks? Aug 02 23:07:52 i'm thinking mass storage more for media access Aug 02 23:07:57 Arachnid: that could mean it doesn't really charge. are you using the Neo battery? Aug 02 23:08:06 Arachnid: use dmesg to see whether it enables fast charging Aug 02 23:08:10 mickeyl: Yes, and it's definitely charging, unless apm --minutes is lying Aug 02 23:08:21 (it says 'on-line' when plugged into USB, and 'off-line' when not) Aug 02 23:08:22 mickeyl, Arachnid, I think it is a software problem, the battery icon won't change maybe Aug 02 23:08:30 thomasg: that was my thought Aug 02 23:08:33 mass storage device is equivalent to whole disk Aug 02 23:08:40 dunno. there's so much in flux. lets talk about that when the p1 snapshot image gets released Aug 02 23:08:41 it can be partitioned Aug 02 23:08:43 [soon] Aug 02 23:08:45 Arachnid, are you using the images from the build-system? Aug 02 23:09:07 ext3 partitions won't be visible to windows Aug 02 23:09:20 Writchie: What about what usb keys expose? They can't be partitioned, typicallyu Aug 02 23:09:21 only FAT Aug 02 23:09:25 there is an ext driver for win Aug 02 23:09:32 it should display ext3 too Aug 02 23:09:43 thomasg: I'm using the latest one from buildhost.openmoko.org Aug 02 23:09:44 well, but that driver would make the mass-storage-support nonsense Aug 02 23:09:51 thomasg: why? Aug 02 23:09:56 yes you could mount as ext2 or 3 filesystem driver for windows Aug 02 23:09:59 yeah - raw blocks Aug 02 23:10:02 Arachnid, ah, k - I think I can confirm this - the icons doesn't show anything :) Aug 02 23:10:15 thomasg: Ah well. Good things take time. ;) Aug 02 23:10:21 and usb drives and flash sticks do have partition tables Aug 02 23:10:42 happycube: IME, windows at least won't let you repartition flash sticks, only USB hard drives Aug 02 23:10:48 Maybe that's an arbitrary s/w distinction Aug 02 23:10:55 can anyone confirm that the neo has to charge for about 10 minutes after running out of power until you can turn it on again? Aug 02 23:11:01 you can repartition from windows Aug 02 23:11:15 Regardless, it would suck to have to unmount the media in order to share it over USB Aug 02 23:11:26 thomasg hm you can put out the battery Aug 02 23:11:31 than it turns on faster Aug 02 23:11:50 woglinde, I tried this Aug 02 23:12:06 I feared that the neo was broken, but after 10 minutes I could turn it on again :) Aug 02 23:12:21 something is fishy in the power management Aug 02 23:12:27 shutting down doesn't shut everything down Aug 02 23:12:35 Lots is fishy in the power managment. Aug 02 23:12:38 remove the battery and enter it again to be sure it doesn't suck power Aug 02 23:12:40 amen Aug 02 23:12:42 thomasg I know I thought many times that my neo is broken Aug 02 23:12:43 * SpeedEvil is hopefully getting a neo tomorrow. Aug 02 23:12:52 but than it came up Aug 02 23:12:56 everytime Aug 02 23:12:56 mickeyl - BTW: Will OM-2007 and .2 be able to coexist simoultanously? Aug 02 23:12:56 * SpeedEvil is going to be attacking it with an oscilloscope. Aug 02 23:13:15 every phone needs the one led MMI Aug 02 23:13:27 Elrond: most of it. there are certainly theming issues, but the libraries should not affect each other Aug 02 23:13:31 Writchie: P2 Aug 02 23:13:40 i fear not Aug 02 23:13:54 what is going to drive the LED Aug 02 23:14:03 That's a problem. Aug 02 23:14:09 hopefully the PM chip Aug 02 23:14:13 woglinde, but I simply love the device ;) I've had many phones, but the neo is simply cool. build quality is pretty high, size, weight and forms are really good. don't want to brake it :) Aug 02 23:14:16 P3 could really do with a small micro of some sort. Aug 02 23:14:28 mickeyl - Ahh, okay. I hope the theming issues wont be super-guly. :) Aug 02 23:14:30 yes, bootup manager Aug 02 23:14:39 tms430 Aug 02 23:14:44 programmable Aug 02 23:14:46 Or pic, or AVR Aug 02 23:14:54 Something small and cheap. Aug 02 23:14:55 handles reset power sequencing etc. Aug 02 23:15:05 And JTAG security. Aug 02 23:15:08 pic or AVR not open source Aug 02 23:15:16 Err - what? Aug 02 23:15:17 mickeyl, why the split up into om2007 and om2007.2? Aug 02 23:15:19 thomasg ;) Aug 02 23:15:20 at least not really Aug 02 23:15:22 How are they not open-source? Aug 02 23:15:26 tools Aug 02 23:15:38 There are open-source tools that work fine IMO. Aug 02 23:15:45 what do you use for PIC Aug 02 23:16:06 Just assembly Aug 02 23:16:24 i see, hand coded Aug 02 23:16:43 2007.2 has improved software and a new UI Aug 02 23:16:50 check koen's blog for a lil demo Aug 02 23:17:00 I hear, that AVR is unuseable in assembly. How is it about PIC? Aug 02 23:17:28 Very simple. Aug 02 23:17:40 AVR is usable - but you need IAR tools or the like Aug 02 23:18:03 I was using gpuutils Aug 02 23:18:57 My current lurk-at-it-and-help-a-little project is 805[12] based. I like that assembler. Aug 02 23:19:04 TMS430, in any case has very very low power and lots PM modes, and reliable startup under any condition Aug 02 23:19:10 just IMO Aug 02 23:19:10 thomasg: it's not a split. it's just a fresh start. an official snapshot image + a corresponding announcement will come hopefully next week Aug 02 23:19:18 sweet :) Aug 02 23:20:07 hello Aug 02 23:20:19 mickeyl - Will some .ipk start to emerge on buildhost before the full image/announcement? Aug 02 23:20:36 well you can check out OE now and follow the wiki instructions... ;) Aug 02 23:20:39 Elrond: didn't think anyone used processors that archaic any more - those things are essentially the same thing as the 8748 used in PC keyboards back in the 80s, but with a few more peripherals, right? Aug 02 23:20:44 Elrond: no. buildhost still uses the old stuff. i have no resources to update that before the announcement :/ Aug 02 23:20:45 Writchie: as do the PIC family. Aug 02 23:20:51 mickey1: is there an image suitable for demo - i am giving a presentation sat in redhat country Aug 02 23:20:54 build needs some nursing but it can be done Aug 02 23:21:16 Elrond: good news is though... starting w/ October, we have a full person doing solely OE/OM work. Aug 02 23:21:24 Elrond: and that person is not me (even better news) ;) Aug 02 23:21:29 i do work with PIC a lot - i just don't like the architecture Aug 02 23:21:49 Yeah - well, it's a matter of taste. Aug 02 23:21:58 Writchie: not atm., ask me again tomorrow nite. Aug 02 23:22:00 mickeyl - Ahh, super. Aug 02 23:22:06 Writchie: separate instruction and data memories you mean? yeah, that takes a bit of getting used to. Aug 02 23:22:24 mickeyl, ok, I also guessed it's a new start - but why or how long will they coexist? Aug 02 23:22:25 and not just memories, but address spaces. that's a bit evil. Aug 02 23:22:44 cjb_ie: very common onmicrocontrollers. Aug 02 23:22:48 cjb_ie - analog devices ADu*. ADC, ~56kb flash for code, low power consumption. The typical "embedded thingy". Aug 02 23:22:53 cjb_ie: that's the very common harvard architecture Aug 02 23:22:58 Is anyone actively working on an SMS app? Aug 02 23:23:05 yes - reminds me of SC/MP Aug 02 23:23:07 cjb_ie: it's as turing complete as the von neumann one Aug 02 23:23:32 cesarb: true, but it still takes a bit of getting used to. not that i've ever written self-modifying code... *shifts uncomfortably* Aug 02 23:23:40 that was an age test ;) Aug 02 23:23:43 thomasg: what do you mean by coexist? OM2007 is dead, there won't be updates. but this is no reason to remove the stuff from svn or to stop making it work -- at least until all the applications from 2007 have been ported to 2007.2 Aug 02 23:24:05 cjb_ie: as long as you don't want to change the code on the fly, there's no problem with a harvard architecture... and most embedded microcontrollers will never have their code changed Aug 02 23:24:31 mickeyl - To your last statement: So someone will commit my 2007 patch? ;o) Aug 02 23:24:33 cjb_ie: what's bad on these microcontrollers tend to be the ridiculously small RAM size (the ROM tends to be larger) Aug 02 23:24:39 there's just little point today when real orthogonal architectures are $1 Aug 02 23:24:41 mickeyl, ok, thats what I wanted to know Aug 02 23:25:08 Elrond: for sure! i will personally do it Aug 02 23:25:16 cesarb: that's a power optimisation. ram contents take power to maintain... rom contents don't Aug 02 23:25:17 mickeyl - Good. :-) Aug 02 23:25:31 I'd like to see an SMS app with a GMail/IM style interface. If nobody else is working on one, I may do so as soon as I have time Aug 02 23:25:51 cjb_ie: hm, never thought about that Aug 02 23:26:00 makes sense Aug 02 23:26:42 mickeyl: did you guys investigate CEA-936-A? Aug 02 23:26:43 Arachnid: Like Blackberry's, basically? Aug 02 23:26:52 Arachnid - I don't have a gmail account... how does that basicly look like? Aug 02 23:27:30 static ram is extremely low power except when accessed Aug 02 23:28:11 Aria: Haven't used a blackberry Aug 02 23:28:12 Writchie, cjb_ie - Yeah, this 805[12] thing has way too less RAM. ;-) Aug 02 23:28:39 Elrond: It's 'conversaion based' - instead of individual messages, entries in your inbox / other folders are conversations Aug 02 23:28:44 With multiple messages, in order Aug 02 23:28:52 Arachnid: They do that on the blackberry Aug 02 23:28:54 It also collapses already read messages by default Aug 02 23:29:12 Aria: *shrug*. I don't care who it clones, I'm just sick of clunky SMS interfaces. :P Aug 02 23:29:18 Arachnid: Ditto Aug 02 23:29:22 cesarb: CEA-936-A? is that a star system? Aug 02 23:29:30 When your messages are 2 sentences long, you shouldn't have to page through individual messages to read a conversation Aug 02 23:30:28 mickeyl: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CEA-936-A Aug 02 23:31:09 mickeyl: (don't mind the stub state, I had difficulty finding details... but AFAIK it uses resistor values on the USB ID pin to select what's connected to the device) Aug 02 23:31:41 Arachnid - Ahh. Aug 02 23:31:57 their is an OEandYourDistro file which needs some updating, but its not located on the OM wiki, so i should inform the OE ppl? Aug 02 23:33:02 cesarb: ah. interesting. no idea about all that stuff though. that may be something for the neo1973 mailing list, where the hardware guys are on Aug 02 23:43:11 just becuse oe would compile on freebsd does not mean om will, correct? Aug 02 23:44:03 blackbad? Aug 02 23:44:11 aeh blackbsd? Aug 02 23:44:35 the om version of oe is a little bit behind oe-head Aug 02 23:44:49 and has some caveats Aug 02 23:46:39 so it probally wont run on the freebsd operating system? Aug 02 23:47:03 blackbsd???? Aug 02 23:47:16 I dont know if qemu runs on bsd Aug 02 23:47:38 but why would you run a emebbed device windowmanger on your host pc? Aug 02 23:47:54 or will you ran bsd on the neo? Aug 02 23:48:13 just so i can compile, debug, playwith some of the apps/ Aug 02 23:48:19 till my phone gets here. Aug 02 23:48:19 Writchie: the issue is more that static RAM requires some power to operate. If there is no power at all, it loses state. flash does not do this. Aug 02 23:48:37 blackbsd runs qemu-arm under bsd? Aug 02 23:48:38 i will still probably do the dev work on the pc.. Aug 02 23:48:47 blackbsd than you have your answer Aug 02 23:49:12 http://people.freebsd.org/~maho/qemu/qemu.html Aug 02 23:49:16 i have not tried it out. Aug 02 23:49:29 i will probally stick with my gentoo linux for now. Aug 02 23:49:44 since it works well with all my laptop devices Aug 02 23:50:00 Does anyone have a recommendation for a 'least broken' image that I can use to DFU my neo that's arriving tomorrow? Aug 02 23:50:17 (hopefully) Aug 02 23:50:34 speedevil no Aug 02 23:50:47 SpeedEvil: congrats in advance Aug 02 23:50:47 I just used the latest one Aug 02 23:50:51 you could try build one from oe-head your self with angstroem Aug 02 23:50:55 It doesn't do much, but it works. :P Aug 02 23:51:27 I haven't setup a build environment. I don't ATM have a proper server setup, just a desktop that's used for much stuff, on an old version of slackware. Aug 02 23:52:16 I would really not rather touch it ATM, I really need to setup my other motherboard and find a working disk... Aug 02 23:53:13 hm. Despite having it on usb charging since I got it, it's still at 67% Aug 02 23:53:32 Is it on? Aug 02 23:53:46 It uses around 1.2W on. Aug 02 23:53:56 That's about half what USB can supply. Aug 02 23:53:56 How do I determine? Aug 02 23:54:04 Is the screen on. Aug 02 23:54:06 yes Aug 02 23:54:23 But I've let it turn off, and when I've woken it up again, it's no further ahead Aug 02 23:54:42 Arachnid - How do you know about the 67%? Aug 02 23:54:56 using apm Aug 02 23:55:07 (incidentally, 'apm --minutes' gives the same result as just plain 'apm') Aug 02 23:55:20 The battery meter is stuck at about 2/3rds, too Aug 02 23:55:28 cd /sys/dev*/platform/s3c2410-i2c/0-000*/ && cat battvolt Aug 02 23:55:43 Oh, and cat "chg*" Aug 02 23:55:54 Oh, and "cat chg*" Aug 02 23:57:13 Hmm, the battery icon usually does not show how full the battery is, when it's charging. It nly shows a battery with an arrow into it. Aug 02 23:57:19 At least on my version. Aug 02 23:57:30 yep Aug 02 23:57:48 Elrond, look closer, its a power plug, not an arrow :P Aug 02 23:57:56 lol Aug 02 23:58:03 mine just shows the batterty Aug 02 23:58:07 no indication its' charging Aug 02 23:58:14 Psi_ - I already use a 8x monocular to operate the neo. Aug 02 23:58:18 hehe Aug 02 23:58:18 Elrond: s3c* doesn't have a 0-000 dir Aug 02 23:58:33 It has 'drive'r, 'modalias', 'uevent', 'power', 'i2c-0' dirs Aug 02 23:58:49 Arachnid - i2c-0/0-000*/ Aug 02 23:59:07 Arachnid - unplug and replug usb. That should get the charging started again. Aug 02 23:59:35 battvolt is 3703 Aug 03 00:00:11 cat chg* gives "693 \npre \nfast_enabled present" Aug 03 00:00:24 I'm pretty sure it _is_ charging - my battery icon just doesn't change to show it Aug 03 00:00:49 Ahh. Aug 03 00:00:51 "pre". Aug 03 00:00:56 It's charging at 100mA. Aug 03 00:01:23 Your host did not offer the neo 500mA. Aug 03 00:01:32 Did you connect it to an unpowered hub? Aug 03 00:01:40 It's on a powered hub Aug 03 00:01:59 openmoko: 03alphaone * r2611 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/artwork/themes/openmoko-standard-2/matchbox/theme.xml: openmoko-theme-standard2: Make top panel 50 pixels high and fix gradient Aug 03 00:02:02 connect it straight to your pc. And blame the hub. Aug 03 00:05:11 even plugged into one of the ports on the back, it still says 'pre' :( Aug 03 00:06:08 SpeedEvil: http://buildhost.openmoko.org/tmp/deploy/images/ Aug 03 00:06:30 Doesn't seem to be forward progress after 28 Aug Aug 03 00:06:50 * Arachnid shuts his phone down while plugged in Aug 03 00:07:09 Arachnid - Yeah, give it a reboot while plugged in. Aug 03 00:07:12 i bought a powered hub Aug 03 00:07:16 very worth it Aug 03 00:08:08 is there any reason to buy a powered hub other than to use more usb devices? Aug 03 00:08:12 That's a good point- _are_ there any images newer than a month old? Aug 03 00:08:15 openmoko: 03abraxa * r2612 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-mediaplayer/ (12 files in 2 dirs): Aug 03 00:08:15 openmoko: Set proper application icon Aug 03 00:08:15 openmoko: Use openmoko theme stock icons for player buttons Aug 03 00:08:15 openmoko: Improve playlist/playback functionality Aug 03 00:08:24 my pc is able to fast charge fine Aug 03 00:08:43 Psi_: Linux or Windows? (Not that it should matter...) Aug 03 00:08:50 linux of course :) Aug 03 00:09:17 The newest image on either of the links from the wiki is the end of July... Aug 03 00:09:22 Arachnid - Wait... what os do you use? Aug 03 00:09:35 Elrond: The computer I'm using right now is windows Aug 03 00:09:39 hm.. mediaplayer Aug 03 00:09:44 Oh. Aug 03 00:09:44 But my understanding was that OS support wasn't required for fast charging? Aug 03 00:10:00 SpeedEvil: 700 nA standby, 100 nA Data Retention, 1 us Wakeup from standby 250 uA @ 1 mHz isn't bad Aug 03 00:10:04 Arachnid - does ethenret over usb work? Aug 03 00:10:12 Elrond: Haven't tried - don't have drivers Aug 03 00:10:17 From conversation in here earlier, no Aug 03 00:10:38 Arachnid - Okay... it's a host problem. windows doesn't tell neo, that it is allowed to do 500mA. Aug 03 00:10:42 Writchie: not at 0v. Aug 03 00:10:46 It recognises it as a USB device, though Aug 03 00:10:52 Yes. Aug 03 00:10:53 SpeedEvil: At 1.8V to 3.6V Aug 03 00:10:56 But without driver... Aug 03 00:10:57 Elrond: I thought it would do that to any device that asks, if it can support it? Aug 03 00:11:01 hm, okay Aug 03 00:11:05 That's a pain Aug 03 00:11:27 Writchie: it needs power. If it loses power for microseconds, the data goes away. This is a really bad thing in an embedded device. Aug 03 00:11:33 Installing the id-fixed .inf at least lets it charge... but still not networking. Aug 03 00:11:47 Where can I get that? Aug 03 00:12:00 can go years with a small battery Aug 03 00:12:25 Arachnid - Nowhere. I fixed the .inf by hand, and then gave up. :-| Aug 03 00:12:37 backup battery Aug 03 00:12:56 Writchie: Batteries are huge. I can get a flash microcontroller in a smaller space than this 'o'. Aug 03 00:13:14 is openmoko-mediaplayer included with any of the current builds? Aug 03 00:13:16 They have lousy performance at extended temperatures, and are hard to mount. Aug 03 00:13:33 SpeedEvil - In that o... fits a full 8051 with 56kb flash. ;o) Aug 03 00:13:34 you can live through a battery change maybe with a small cap Aug 03 00:13:39 (on my screen at least. ;o) Aug 03 00:14:19 Writchie: Where do you get a small cap and a battery that will fit in no more space than a 2mm*3mm microcontroller? Aug 03 00:14:26 Elrond: ah :/ Aug 03 00:14:26 Psi_ - I doubt it. Aug 03 00:14:33 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Flashing_openmoko#Putting_the_device_into_DFU_mode "plug the phone directly into the computer not a hub" ... does this apply if the hub is powered? Aug 03 00:14:34 Psi_: Nope, not yet Aug 03 00:14:41 i'm talking about the PM function on the phone. Aug 03 00:14:42 ok, thanks Aug 03 00:14:53 Arachnid - I could recreate it. But it'll just screw up your windows a little more. Aug 03 00:15:02 eh, never mind Aug 03 00:15:04 I'll wait Aug 03 00:15:05 managing battery out, dead battery charge, one LED MMI, etc. Aug 03 00:15:07 Writchie: and the cap and battery both have to be fitted to the PCB, taking area and mounting costs. You do not put critical PM stuff in stuff which requires power to operate. Unless you are insane. Aug 03 00:15:16 daMaestro - I'd say "yes". Aug 03 00:15:25 there's flash as well Aug 03 00:15:57 daMaestro - Issue being "proper data transfer", I think. Aug 03 00:16:22 Elrond, do you know of a way to test if the transfer went ok? Aug 03 00:16:54 daMaestro - Not really. Aug 03 00:17:15 battery change doesn't have to mean total cold restart. Aug 03 00:17:36 AFAIK the GTA01 has a small backup battery. Aug 03 00:18:05 Writchie: Of course not. However, flash microcontrolelrs are the right way to go. Using RAM for microcontrollers is insane in this application. For one thing, you'd need a couple of packages instead of one, for no reason. Aug 03 00:18:07 i think this for data retention on the SDRAM Aug 03 00:18:17 daMaestro - Just connect it straight to your pc for DFU. Aug 03 00:18:27 SpeedEvil: i'm not proposing RAM for uC Aug 03 00:18:37 Writchie: Ah - may have misread. Aug 03 00:18:43 I just staying that large amounts of RAM on uC are not that expensive to power Aug 03 00:18:59 sure flash is zero power. Aug 03 00:18:59 It's not so much expensive to power. Aug 03 00:19:08 It's expensive to make. Aug 03 00:19:12 but static ram today is close to zero power. Aug 03 00:19:13 Go to digikey. Aug 03 00:19:21 Search on microcontrollers. Aug 03 00:19:33 yes too expensive for main memory. Aug 03 00:19:33 You will find exactly zero microcontrollers with >64K RAM Aug 03 00:19:42 60K RAM Aug 03 00:20:13 actually, I think there a some ARM7's with more. Aug 03 00:20:15 SpeedEvil, the entire ATTINY range of micros have less than that Aug 03 00:20:15 SpeedEvil: motorola 5282? Aug 03 00:20:22 but yes RAM is basically for data. Aug 03 00:20:28 flash for program Aug 03 00:20:35 they start at 512byte sram i think and go up to 8k Aug 03 00:20:54 RAM is also good for bug fixes to ROM. Aug 03 00:21:00 Psi_: I know. I was looking for one a while back, to do audio bufferiung. Aug 03 00:21:01 oh, wait, i read that around the wrong way :P Aug 03 00:21:04 Writchie: No, it's not. Aug 03 00:21:20 Writchie: you re-flash the thing. They have tens of thousands of cycles. Aug 03 00:21:42 yes flash is preferred, but ROM is even lower in cost very high volumes Aug 03 00:21:48 True. Aug 03 00:22:00 so ROM with bug fixes in small amount of RAM is pretty optimal. Aug 03 00:22:12 for devices in millions Aug 03 00:22:51 Hm, intersting: http://www.usb.org/developers/devclass_docs/batt_charging_1_0.zip Aug 03 00:23:00 A new specification from march... Aug 03 00:23:21 What a generic 'I've got a battery, please charge me' Aug 03 00:23:21 Saying how to detect/use dumb chargers Aug 03 00:23:27 class, that doesn't require chargers? Aug 03 00:23:33 err - drivers Aug 03 00:23:34 ah Aug 03 00:23:51 SpeedEvil: it can be done purely in hardware, if I read it right Aug 03 00:24:04 SpeedEvil: it relies on dumb chargers shorting DP and DM Aug 03 00:24:11 cesarb: Right. I was thinking it was the other problem. Aug 03 00:24:26 plug into random computer without drivers for your device, and it won't charge. Aug 03 00:24:27 SpeedEvil: injects a high level on one of them, and expects the other to be a high level too... if not, it's not a charger Aug 03 00:24:45 D+ and D-? Aug 03 00:24:56 SpeedEvil: yes Aug 03 00:25:22 Good night people. :-) Aug 03 00:25:25 Wave. Aug 03 00:26:08 If http://wiki.openezx.org/EMU is correct, motorola dumb chargers do precisely that... short DM and DP together Aug 03 00:26:13 This could be a handy building block for USB mass storage support: http://git.kernel.org/?p=linux/kernel/git/torvalds/linux-2.6.git;a=blob;f=drivers/usb/gadget/file_storage.c Aug 03 00:26:25 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[User:Aztlek]] [[Carriers/ATT]] [[OpenMoko_Local_Groups:_Bogota]] [[User:Nelsoneci]] [[User:Mmontour]] [[Building_Gadget_USB_Module]] [[Getting_Started_with_your_Neo1973]] Aug 03 00:26:41 * cesarb goes looking at the CPU's manual to see if we could, at least when the kernel is enabled, try to detect that condition and fast charge (500mA or more!) Aug 03 00:29:57 ugh, found an old 2g SIM card, but at&t can't activate it since it was previously de-activated :( Aug 03 00:30:14 it does return with the proper at+cimi info tho Aug 03 00:30:41 the csr said, "i can try it, but if it doesn't work, you'll lose your number" Aug 03 00:30:49 shoot Aug 03 00:30:52 Arachnid: until you have enough power to run - you can't do much Aug 03 00:31:23 wow, losing your number seems like a stiff penalty Aug 03 00:31:40 especially since it was a port of a metro line Aug 03 00:31:53 metro numbers are pretty valuable out here Aug 03 00:32:09 means people in the city can call out here in the country for free :) Aug 03 00:32:20 Oook. Yeah. Aug 03 00:32:21 i didn't want to risk it Aug 03 00:32:35 I wonder if you called back and spoke to another csr, if the answer would be the same :) Aug 03 00:32:45 rushforth: i did! Aug 03 00:32:51 and also a local store too Aug 03 00:32:59 crazy Aug 03 00:33:00 they all read from the same manual, it seems Aug 03 00:33:11 thats unfortunate. Aug 03 00:33:15 isn't the number lost anyways if the card is deactivated? Aug 03 00:33:20 everybody said they could activate a new card... Aug 03 00:33:26 but i don't want a new one :) Aug 03 00:33:35 you don't hear that everyday Aug 03 00:33:36 jaebird: I assume this is because of the cingular/att sim card fiasco? Aug 03 00:34:10 when i asked if they had any 2g sim cards, the csr said they received an email on monday that all 2g cards are gone Aug 03 00:34:25 so if the neo would have shipped on-time...... Aug 03 00:34:33 :) Aug 03 00:34:57 rushforth: yes, 3G cards are problematic for the new atm Aug 03 00:35:04 s/new/neo/ Aug 03 00:35:05 jaebird meant: rushforth: yes, 3G cards are problematic for the neo atm Aug 03 00:35:08 Hm, not easy, the USB pins are not shared with any GPIOs (which would allow direct control), and the USB block is too smart for its own good (no way of controlling/directly reading DP/DM) Aug 03 00:35:16 I ordered a 2g sim off ebay a few days ago. In the meantime I am starting to get doubtful I will be able to activate it. (even though it was sold as 'never activated') we'll see... Aug 03 00:35:37 jaebird: yes im in the same boat.. Aug 03 00:35:40 rushforth: if it is "new" you should be fine Aug 03 00:35:50 jaebird: one user in the wiki reported having sucess with the 3g fireball card Aug 03 00:35:52 but how do you know when something is "new" Aug 03 00:36:02 i emailed him, and he just said it worked after a few tries.. Aug 03 00:36:03 rushforth, I saw that Aug 03 00:36:15 it is the newest 3G card too Aug 03 00:36:20 I actually have the *exact* same card Aug 03 00:36:31 i thought about getting the latest card to see if it _works_ Aug 03 00:36:31 I've tried and tried and tried, nothing makes mine work. Aug 03 00:36:47 my model number matches his exactly. hence why there are now 2 entries in the wiki for it :) Aug 03 00:36:56 but maybe there is a version that is not visible to the user...like a stepping or something Aug 03 00:37:03 cesarb: bigger problem is processor isn't running. Aug 03 00:37:04 yeah. some kind of revision. Aug 03 00:37:09 it would be interesting to compare your date with his Aug 03 00:37:17 like when you bought it or something Aug 03 00:37:32 cesarb: i don't see what can kick in the ass to start it up so you can negotiate 500ma Aug 03 00:37:46 unless the user has to be that processor Aug 03 00:37:48 jaebird: yeah, I will ask him that, and also what area it came from. He is going to try AT+CIMI tonight and let me know. Aug 03 00:37:49 which is dumb Aug 03 00:38:21 what is the relation of the cimi to the iccid? Aug 03 00:38:27 no idea. Aug 03 00:38:34 it look like you have to charge at 50ma for some amount of time to get enough reserve enery Aug 03 00:38:35 Writchie: I was checking if there would a way to do something without hardware changes, even if it meant depending on the CPU running (i.e. not with a dead battery, just correct dumb charger detection) Aug 03 00:38:41 cimi returns 15 digits, none of which match the iccid Aug 03 00:38:46 which is the IMSI? Aug 03 00:39:04 sure - dumb charger doesn't negotiate Aug 03 00:39:08 jaebird: cimi is supposedly the equivalent of an account number (if ive been following correctly) Aug 03 00:39:22 if you can't negotiate, you can go to 500ma Aug 03 00:39:28 but the csr needs the iccid in order to activate Aug 03 00:39:43 there are corner cases, however, that are bad Aug 03 00:39:47 so many stupid ids Aug 03 00:39:49 like a machine booting up Aug 03 00:39:51 jaebird: werd. Aug 03 00:40:17 also found out that 3G phones will NOT work with 2G SIM cards Aug 03 00:40:30 so the backward compat only goes so far Aug 03 00:40:50 jaebird: my 3g phone works with a 2g sim card Aug 03 00:40:54 Writchie: I found a spec which says that (among other things), if you can find out DP is shorted to DM, you can always go up to 1.5A, it's a dumb charger Aug 03 00:40:55 does wiki.openmoko need a glossary? Aug 03 00:41:01 (samsung i607 aka blackjack) Aug 03 00:41:11 Writchie: no negotiation needed (or even possible) Aug 03 00:41:22 who says a dumb charger will source 1.5amp Aug 03 00:41:24 rushforth: i gues not all, but saw it in some cingular faq or forum Aug 03 00:41:25 (script) planet: Daniel Willmann: Chaos Camp buildup http://www.totalueberwachung.de/blog/articles/2007/08/03/chaos-camp-buildup Aug 03 00:41:31 Kaloz: I just read the old emails about AR6K. From the datasheet, this seems like a fullmac design. I don't think this is such a good idea for OpenMoko, do you? Aug 03 00:41:39 interesting Aug 03 00:41:48 Writchie: the spec says it will source at least 0.5A, but you can try more and it's supposed to current-limit when it hits its limit Aug 03 00:41:57 jaebird: yeah, i can get this 2g t-mo sim to work in the neo and in the samsung, but the 3g only in the samsung Aug 03 00:42:00 Writchie: take a look: http://www.usb.org/developers/devclass_docs/batt_charging_1_0.zip Aug 03 00:42:11 cesarb: not sure all those in the market now will do this Aug 03 00:42:12 t-mo prepay? Aug 03 00:42:33 jaebird: t-mo flexpay (prepaid, but month-month contract) Aug 03 00:42:36 Writchie: at least motorola's do have shorted DP/DM, so if you try to get at most 500mA, they will work fine Aug 03 00:42:57 but since they must withstand dead short to meet UL, you could probably draw what you can Aug 03 00:43:03 Writchie: and detecting the short is a very reliable way of being sure you can get the 500mA... Aug 03 00:43:06 until voltage drops below min Aug 03 00:43:09 my work has at&t repeaters indoors...not sure t-mo will work there, what a fiasco :) Aug 03 00:43:24 jaebird: thats pretty sweet :) Aug 03 00:43:48 it is the world of blackberry's :) before the repeaters...0 signal Aug 03 00:44:01 now 100%, not too mention that my batt lasts forever :) Aug 03 00:44:13 jaebird: you work high up, or underground, or? Aug 03 00:45:05 almost like underground, heh...no actually just a large metal build with rf shielding and such Aug 03 00:45:20 can't get anything, no AM, FM, TV.... Aug 03 00:45:45 wow, intense Aug 03 00:46:08 but we do have cingular :) i mean at&t :| Aug 03 00:46:29 heh Aug 03 00:46:50 rushforth: i'll look for your 2g sim entry in the wiki...i added mine several mins ago Aug 03 00:47:05 ok.. well i just took like 70 pictures Aug 03 00:47:12 hopefully it will activate fine...they will prob charge you 18 bucks Aug 03 00:47:18 i need to clean them up and level them; i'll upload them somewhere then Aug 03 00:47:18 SpeedEvil: looks like the wiki is spinning out of control Aug 03 00:47:24 that seems to be the going rate for SIM card changes Aug 03 00:47:56 jaebird: interesting.. unfortunately the mail did not bring it today, but hopefully tomorrow :) Aug 03 00:48:51 jaebird: if you are lucky, the repeater you have is a "dumb" repeater which just repeats any signal on a given frequency range... Aug 03 00:49:51 maybe...it was cingular that installed it, so it may be a micro cell Aug 03 00:49:52 gsm repeaters are very common - had them in apartements 10 yrs ago in hong kong Aug 03 00:50:30 what GSM band is used in china? Aug 03 00:50:40 900 1800 Aug 03 00:51:34 ok Aug 03 00:51:38 cesarb: there are times when voice works but gprs/edge does not Aug 03 00:51:53 whatever that means Aug 03 00:52:28 it means its not a microcell Aug 03 00:53:10 jaebird: if you can see the cell ID, you might be able to guess if it's a microcell or not Aug 03 00:53:38 * cesarb has seen microcells in at least two big shopping malls already. In both cases, the cell ID made it very obvious Aug 03 00:54:45 cesarb: good point - you can check that from the command line Aug 03 00:55:23 i'll do that whenever i get a sim/neo combo that works :) Aug 03 00:57:13 Writchie: with a razr, you can check it from J2ME (it's in an environment variable), but unfortunately you cannot get the rest of the full cell id (the area id and the country/carrier id, forgot their names) Aug 03 00:57:32 Making it useless for any attempt at rough geolocation Aug 03 00:57:54 (and making it useful only for having fun checking when you change cells) Aug 03 00:59:03 http://www.cellspotting.com/software/index.php has software for some more capable phones Aug 03 00:59:19 IIRC the neo puts out both the locataion code and cell id Aug 03 01:01:16 i turned on cell change notification on my E2, maybe it will show something... Aug 03 01:20:25 rushforth: just ordered a 2g card from ebay...here's to hoping :) Aug 03 01:20:56 2G card sellers must be wondering why demand is suddenly increasing Aug 03 01:21:06 lol Aug 03 01:21:07 hehe Aug 03 01:21:14 the price is higher on ebay too Aug 03 01:21:27 it's almost like the laws of supply and demand apply, ors... Aug 03 01:21:54 jaebird: what did you pay (if you don't mind me asking:) ? Aug 03 01:22:07 less than 11 more than 10 Aug 03 01:22:24 saw one for less afterwords :) Aug 03 01:22:35 i found one for 4.99 :) Aug 03 01:22:37 shipping was half of it of course Aug 03 01:22:42 + shipping Aug 03 01:22:47 * cjb_ie notes that numbers are near meaningless without units... or are ye all amerikaners? Aug 03 01:22:48 yeah ok, about the same then :) Aug 03 01:22:58 yeah, card was 4.99 Aug 03 01:23:01 (USD, yes) Aug 03 01:23:13 but the shipping is part of the true cost IMO Aug 03 01:23:30 hong kong sellers understand this so well Aug 03 01:23:34 prob same seller _savingmall_ Aug 03 01:23:39 Do any 3G cards work? Is it just specific providers' cards that have issues? Aug 03 01:23:54 Arachnid: so far at&t Aug 03 01:24:09 No problem over here, then. :) Aug 03 01:24:16 but someone was having trouble in NZ on vodaphone IIRC Aug 03 01:24:25 not sure if they sorted it out Aug 03 01:24:25 wouldn't surprise me if at&t decide they're so big they can dick with the spec and get away with it. Aug 03 01:24:39 Yeaah. Aug 03 01:25:03 "sure, nokia, it may be our problem. but if your phones don't work with our sims, it's your problem." Aug 03 01:26:16 really? I know Psi said he managed to make a call. Aug 03 01:26:18 i wonder if the problem will be low-level enough to need to put a logic analyser on the sim clock and data lines Aug 03 01:27:34 whoa. i'm getting tired. i'm trying to tab-complete ssh passwords. Aug 03 01:27:37 TI has plenty of logic analysers. Aug 03 01:27:42 If it's a TI problem. Aug 03 01:28:08 if it's a TI problem, would TI be responsible for fixing all the P1s? Aug 03 01:28:23 Almost certainly not. Aug 03 01:28:31 IMO. Aug 03 01:29:24 * rushforth crosses fingers that this can be resolved without hardware modifications Aug 03 01:29:45 i'd imagine there's a disclaimer on the back page of the data sheet to the effect that while the data sheet is believed to be an accurate representation of the behaviour of the device, the absence of disparities cannot be guaranteed, ors Aug 03 01:30:05 * rushforth wonders what other phones may have this calypso chipset.. Aug 03 01:30:10 Especially if third parties - AT&T do wierd stuff. Aug 03 01:30:27 if the problem is fixable, 99% probability it will be firmware and refresh Aug 03 01:30:52 hopefully it's not a pullup or pulldown that there isn't a space for on the pcb. Aug 03 01:31:17 the SIM electrically connections are pretty standard Aug 03 01:31:26 unlikely to be the problem Aug 03 01:31:48 i didn't mean sim connections - i meant power-up config pins on the IC Aug 03 01:32:24 then this would be a FIC problem - not TI Aug 03 01:32:30 yup Aug 03 01:33:06 but in general, a lot of such things can be got around with suitable firmware, rather than a board respin Aug 03 01:33:44 these first phones are for developers Aug 03 01:33:53 you can't expect them to be phones Aug 03 01:33:55 at this point Aug 03 01:34:31 * cjb_ie was coloured impressed on an unrelated design with a gigabit switch IC that had all the wrong pullups on the board - but turned out to have an 8051 built in that could be flashed to do whatever the **** you wanted. Aug 03 01:34:38 t-mobile is a more standard network to play with at this point Aug 03 01:36:07 i actually have an idea to use the neo as a bt headset (and dialer if AT commands over BT can do it) Aug 03 01:36:11 at least they understand the gsm concept, separating terminal from network Aug 03 01:36:13 kinda like a nokia 770 with it's own mic Aug 03 01:36:46 headset for what? Aug 03 01:36:49 other device Aug 03 01:37:28 or do you mean a handset for a different phone Aug 03 01:37:46 using BT headset profile Aug 03 01:38:12 why would one want a BT headset in the form factor of a phone? Aug 03 01:38:29 unless it were for some very odd multi-phone/line behaviour Aug 03 01:38:46 and even then, wouldn't you still want it to be a bit less... big Aug 03 01:38:53 perhaps not a headset, but the BT intercomm profice is interesting Aug 03 01:39:15 intercom, ooh, that's a nice idea. Aug 03 01:39:26 ooooh that'd be cool too Aug 03 01:39:33 free voip within a very small radius :-) Aug 03 01:39:37 my odd idea was to use the neo as a phone, but not as a phone at the same time Aug 03 01:39:48 because i'm crazy like that. Aug 03 01:40:09 use it as a headset for another phone? Aug 03 01:40:19 ya... keep the other phone, say a nokia series 40, hidden Aug 03 01:40:24 so it looks like you're calling with your neo, but your friend's paying the bill? Aug 03 01:40:28 that's gotta be the craziest workaround yet for at&t cards not working :-) Aug 03 01:40:28 lol no Aug 03 01:40:32 ;) Aug 03 01:40:50 not so crazy, 3G phones can be had for $110 Aug 03 01:40:50 or for suffering with cdma Aug 03 01:41:53 ha, for some reason i'd presumed that only gsm phones did bt headset, but i guess there's no reason lesser technologies can't be codec'ed suitably Aug 03 01:42:02 even verizon's phones do bt headsets Aug 03 01:42:11 ... sometimes about ALL they do Aug 03 01:42:14 * cjb_ie is spoiled living in a GSM-only country Aug 03 01:42:36 our last analog service got turned off around 5 years ago i think Aug 03 01:42:49 that'll be turned off in the US in 2008, i think Aug 03 01:42:52 along with TDMA Aug 03 01:43:39 a couple of years ago i randomly bought a book on the GSM spec cos i thought it might be interesting. boy was i wrong. Aug 03 01:43:48 heh Aug 03 01:43:54 there are so many fugly workarounds and compromises Aug 03 01:43:55 lol ain't that the truth Aug 03 01:44:00 Both GSM and D-AMPS are TDMA Aug 03 01:44:09 ok tdma as in d-amps Aug 03 01:44:09 GSM will be around for awhile Aug 03 01:44:14 it better be! Aug 03 01:44:27 in the us old-at&t wireless used tdma/d-amps Aug 03 01:44:43 they eventually went gsm... Aug 03 01:45:02 i thought they are still using d-amps in some places Aug 03 01:45:26 They are. But I haven't seen a handset for it in ages. Aug 03 01:45:36 They did parallel d-AMPS/GSM or d-AMPS/CDMA Aug 03 01:45:49 * Aria lives in one of those areas. Middle of effin nowhere. Aug 03 01:46:09 gsm850 works much better than gsm1900 Aug 03 01:46:14 cjb_ie: are you from germany? Aug 03 01:47:09 borg_: ie = ireland Aug 03 01:47:14 i thougt about what you mean with "analog services" Aug 03 01:47:21 did you mean something like the "b-netz"? Aug 03 01:47:24 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B-Netz Aug 03 01:47:53 i think this disappeard in 1995 here o_O Aug 03 01:48:09 and they are using this in the US at the momment? Aug 03 01:48:14 interesting :) Aug 03 01:49:49 only t-mobile is 100% GSM Aug 03 01:50:11 Yeah. Aug 03 01:50:22 oh, apparently ireland's analog (TACS) network was only closed 2 years ago. thought it was longer ago. Aug 03 01:50:33 Those of you waiting for perl bindings to Gtk in openembedded - I just finished them. Aug 03 01:50:39 gotta squeeze out every last dime Aug 03 01:50:46 just testing that they don't core-dump and i'll be commiting Aug 03 01:51:07 coo, and we had the world's first prepay system. Aug 03 01:51:53 at least according to wikilies - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eircell Aug 03 01:54:58 AFAIK, we still have analog cell around here... (but I don't think anyone actually uses it) Aug 03 02:01:09 * cjb_ie guesses cesarb is in a hispanophone country Aug 03 02:01:25 cjb_ie: nope Aug 03 02:01:42 cjb_ie: a portuguese-speaking one Aug 03 02:02:18 damn :/ Aug 03 02:02:53 cjb_ie: actually, it was a pretty close guess... both languages are linguistically very close ;-) Aug 03 02:03:28 so i gather, but i never studied portuguese. Aug 03 02:04:25 if it had been offered, then maybe *shrug* Aug 03 02:17:16 Bluetooth headphones. Aug 03 02:17:36 I will rarely actually use bluetooth to place a call. Aug 03 02:17:49 However, some reasonably nice bluetooth headphones would be nice. Aug 03 02:17:55 Any recommendations? Aug 03 02:22:47 * Bryce_Leo listens to the crickets Aug 03 02:22:56 there are an increasing number of BT headphones that are both headphones and headset Aug 03 02:23:03 sorry SpeedEvil I don't know any bluetooth headphones Aug 03 02:23:36 there are about a dozen on the market Aug 03 02:23:41 I know - I was just meaning I don't much care about the quality of the headset function. Aug 03 02:24:12 if you want quality you need higher-end BT headsets Aug 03 02:25:03 i know onstar in the US used or still uses analog...which is a problem! Aug 03 02:25:26 jaebird: heh, it gives the analog towers something to do! we've got so dang many here Aug 03 02:25:44 OnStar will be ending their analog service in November Aug 03 02:25:59 All existing analog-only customers will be dropped. Aug 03 02:26:15 woo, made a call :) Aug 03 02:26:21 lots of static, though :/ Aug 03 02:26:45 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[User_talk:Feilsky]] [[Window_Manager_Startup]] [[Carriers/ATT]] [[Translation]] [[User:Saaib]] [[OpenMoko2007.2]] Aug 03 02:26:52 only works in headset state Aug 03 02:26:58 AFAIK Aug 03 02:27:07 no, it worked with just the handset Aug 03 02:27:13 what build Aug 03 02:27:15 yeah...i know GM was telling customers that their OnStar in older vehicles would stop working whenever they got turned off Aug 03 02:27:24 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Getting_Started_with_your_Neo1973 Aug 03 02:27:35 i guess that is a reason to buy a new car :) Aug 03 02:27:49 you have to load the alsa config as detailed there Aug 03 02:28:07 yayy! Payment note received! Aug 03 02:28:27 heh, i stiil need to save up cash Aug 03 02:28:45 this makes my day Aug 03 02:29:56 Arachnid: what image did you use, most of the gsmhandset.state files have the speakers enabled Aug 03 02:30:32 openmoko-devel-image-fic-gta01-20070728081358.rootfs.jffs2 Aug 03 02:31:07 strange, maybe your speakers are broken Aug 03 02:31:17 did they play stereo Aug 03 02:31:42 stereo? how could it, it's only one speaker Aug 03 02:31:56 finally a reason to get an account on the wiki and to prepare to do some contribution Aug 03 02:32:08 there are two audio speakers enabled from the stereoout.state Aug 03 02:32:21 you can play an mp3 with madplay Aug 03 02:32:50 So the speakerphone speaker is one and the earpiece one is the other? Aug 03 02:33:16 handset speaker at the top is one and left and right speakers on the bottom outside edge of case Aug 03 02:33:31 plus headset speakers if you plug them in Aug 03 02:33:40 so 5 speakers in all. Aug 03 02:33:56 Isn't the balance all to one speaker by default, though? Aug 03 02:33:57 we will loose 1 of the nice speakers to WiFi in P2 Aug 03 02:34:12 i have tested the separation. Aug 03 02:34:41 i think both channels are there in the hardware Aug 03 02:34:54 for now Aug 03 02:35:23 probably not all that important but it was a nice little feature not normally found Aug 03 02:35:30 if you were feeling enterprising shouldn't you be able to solder on a second speaker in the gta02 Aug 03 02:35:55 its a question of volume Aug 03 02:36:04 needed the room for the WiFi Aug 03 02:36:42 self powered speakers will work from the headset out Aug 03 02:36:48 Writchie: yes but hopefully with a bit of a case mod it'll be possible Aug 03 02:49:58 I still don't see why my standard speaker working is a sign my other speakers might be busted Aug 03 02:50:12 Are you saying that it should default to all speakers on with that alsa config? Aug 03 02:51:15 * Arachnid was disappointed how noisy the call was, though - lots of static Aug 03 02:51:58 Arachnid: i saw that being reported, but i heard that the next build has that ironed out Aug 03 02:53:37 cool **** ENDING LOGGING AT Fri Aug 03 02:59:57 2007