**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Aug 03 02:59:57 2007 Aug 03 03:00:54 hey all Aug 03 03:01:01 sup ZerothCloned Aug 03 03:01:44 Arachnid: Sorry! Dont Panic - I saw a comment that person developing the states had a busted speaker that is why he did not have feedback on his machine. Aug 03 03:02:38 most (except for you) people report feedback when using the gsmhandset.state Aug 03 03:04:22 my foriegn transaction fee was 9. Aug 03 03:04:38 sorry...hit enter by accident Aug 03 03:05:25 it was $9.29US for my cc to be charged from taipei Aug 03 03:06:22 3% of the total price Aug 03 03:11:49 * moko-bunny wonders how to tweak MokoMakefile to do 2007.2 Aug 03 03:12:35 for 2007.2 are we still using the overlay? Aug 03 03:12:50 not according to the wiki Aug 03 03:13:03 can you point me to the wiki article Aug 03 03:13:04 ? Aug 03 03:13:19 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/OpenMoko2007.2 Aug 03 03:13:37 sentence right before "Build Issues" Aug 03 03:14:34 lol wow i'm good ain't i? Aug 03 03:14:49 it won't be too bad, it should just have to bitbake a package Aug 03 03:14:49 hehehe, did you write that part? :) Aug 03 03:15:09 lol no, i wish then i would have known about the wiki article! Aug 03 03:16:00 we really do owe this new system to Koen, OpenMoko is now based off of his project Angstrom Aug 03 03:16:05 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/OpenMoko2007.2 Aug 03 03:16:06 but you probably know that Aug 03 03:16:25 so... what does this mean for Bryce_Leo's crash article? Aug 03 03:16:33 I didn't actually know that, no Aug 03 03:16:57 ZerothCloned: this means that it might need a bit of modification Aug 03 03:17:13 actually.... alot of modification Aug 03 03:17:23 doy Aug 03 03:17:34 I just GOT how to add apps to the image Aug 03 03:17:37 i'll definately have to make that a priority Aug 03 03:17:39 damnit Aug 03 03:17:40 great *rolls eyes* Aug 03 03:17:51 I just finished building my ipks and my neo won't turn on :-P Aug 03 03:18:00 noiddd: ouch.... Aug 03 03:18:01 anyone else get '| make[1]: *** No rule to make target `', needed by `miniperlmain.o'. Stop. ' ??? Aug 03 03:18:23 I've not committed my changes to perl yet so you can't blame me :-P Aug 03 03:18:45 gah, sorry guys i gotta head to bed, the woman's complaining loudly Aug 03 03:18:54 Night dude! Aug 03 03:18:57 feed her some chocolate :) Aug 03 03:19:30 moko-bunny: lol i've actually got a jar of chocolate hearts on the head board, next to the jar of m&m's Aug 03 03:19:56 cool...hehe, I was going to say hopefully you don't live in the US...we don't really know what good chocolate is Aug 03 03:20:21 night all, take care, i'll be on tomorrow i'll probably work on instrructions for setting up 2007.2. Though i do have real work to do for the whole wedding photography job. Aug 03 03:20:35 gnight Aug 03 03:20:42 moko-bunny: i'm def in the US, in the grea NJ Aug 03 03:21:03 we don't know real chocolate but it's cheap and easy to get.... i love chocolate.... Aug 03 03:21:10 lol ok enough distractions Aug 03 03:21:12 night!! Aug 03 03:21:13 Bryce_Leo: cool...Wa State here...eastsiide Aug 03 03:21:32 niice c ya moko-bunny! Aug 03 03:21:41 bye Aug 03 03:39:04 Why don't companies release linux drivers again? Aug 03 03:39:32 I always see hardware crap called "Vista Edition" but never "Debian Edition" Aug 03 03:42:48 anyone with a GTA01 installed Poky? Aug 03 04:04:15 calamous1_: Not enough userbase to title something 'debian edition' Aug 03 04:04:44 As to why no drivers... most companies are inclined to look at their source code, even the simplest stuff, as highly proprietary and secret Aug 03 04:04:57 "We paid you programmers all this money to make it, why should we give it away for free?" Aug 03 04:06:52 does the neo have a clock? Aug 03 04:07:09 every time it boots it gets set to feb 2, 2000 Aug 03 04:09:27 jaebird: set with date Aug 03 04:09:35 jaebird: then hwclock --systohc Aug 03 04:09:40 or something like that Aug 03 04:09:46 ah ok... Aug 03 04:09:56 set with date, just didn't do the other Aug 03 04:09:56 try hw Aug 03 04:10:15 i cant remember the actual command but the --systohc is right Aug 03 04:10:27 hwclock is correct...thx Aug 03 04:10:30 np Aug 03 04:10:44 * xzcvczx kicks the crap out of perl Aug 03 04:11:01 is there a way to tell a package to just unpack using mokoMakefile? Aug 03 04:20:46 is there a list of the +CME ERRORs somewhere? Aug 03 04:22:07 moko-bunny: in the ETSI 07.07 spec, IIRC Aug 03 04:22:27 cool, thanks! Aug 03 04:23:23 according to what I wrote in http://svn.openmoko.org/trunk/src/target/gsm/include/gsmd/ts0707.h it's section 9.2.1 of that standard Aug 03 04:23:48 http://files.damaestro.us/moko/ here are some pictures Aug 03 04:23:56 i'm going to work them into some of the howtos on the wiki Aug 03 04:26:05 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Advanced_End-user/de]] [[P1_Owners]] [[User:Hhf423]] [[User_talk:Hhf423]] Aug 03 04:27:36 LaF0rge: thanks! I'm dinking with one of the SIMs that's not working...and I've managed to get a 3 and a 32...seems to work different everytime I reboot it. I'll play with it until it keeps doing the same thing :) Aug 03 04:29:19 btw, those photos are free for use... Aug 03 04:29:22 if anyone wants to use them Aug 03 04:30:01 * daMaestro uploads to a better place Aug 03 04:30:23 * xzcvczx /.'s daMaestro's original link Aug 03 04:30:38 that server should be able to take it Aug 03 04:30:39 lol Aug 03 04:30:57 i have seen some pretty nice servers die under that sort of load Aug 03 04:31:13 esspecially with the size of the photos Aug 03 04:33:08 daMaestro: hey...mine didn't come with a bluetooth headset :-P Aug 03 04:34:25 * xzcvczx has already lost his guitar pick Aug 03 04:35:19 Just upload them to S3;) Aug 03 04:35:38 * jaebird just uses his fingernail Aug 03 04:36:25 jaebird: yeah i do as well part of the reason i have lost it already Aug 03 04:36:49 it would have been cooler if it had openmoko on it! Aug 03 04:37:45 heh Aug 03 04:37:50 OpenMoko guitar picks Aug 03 04:37:56 moko-bunny: 3, operation not allowed, 32 network not allowed, emergency calls only Aug 03 04:38:14 sounds like an at&t sim card? Aug 03 04:38:44 Arachnid: they whipped up an openmoko pouch just fine :) Aug 03 04:38:47 jaebird: thanks...yeah it is. The .h file LaF0rge linked above has all of them :) Aug 03 04:38:54 jaebird: True. Aug 03 04:39:06 it should be on the wiki IMO Aug 03 04:39:16 under a glossary section or something Aug 03 04:39:22 moko-bunny, yeah.. i had that already Aug 03 04:39:30 along with acronyms like IEMI and IMSI, et Aug 03 04:40:40 since everything is made in china, you should be able to make just about anything with your logo on it! Aug 03 04:42:52 http://damaestro.us/photography .... but zope can be pounded without much effort Aug 03 04:43:01 so no slashdot on that ... lol Aug 03 04:45:26 a case with space for a custom logo *and* the stylus would be nice :) Aug 03 04:49:50 daMaestro: all add that url to my zombies dos :) Aug 03 04:49:52 moko-bunny: if you haven't already done so check to see if sim card is on the table at http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Carriers/ATT Aug 03 04:50:52 jaebird, be nice Aug 03 04:50:52 lol Aug 03 04:51:02 jaebird: it is pretty close. sku is 63512 Aug 03 04:51:23 add it if you can, thx Aug 03 04:51:32 roger wilcox Aug 03 04:51:38 :) Aug 03 04:51:58 the thing I find odd is that the phone it is from is well over 2 years old. Aug 03 04:52:09 how well is BT working, can ya get networking via BT yet? Aug 03 04:52:11 i know...mine were too Aug 03 04:52:36 if its good ill go buy a BT dongle/AP :) Aug 03 04:52:41 this is one of those things that _shouldn't_ have been overlooked, but hindsight is... Aug 03 04:53:16 either way this problem is going to cost Aug 03 04:53:21 I also successfully used a 63698A1002...but that was a borrowed one...wouldn't ya know the one I was able to successfully liberate from my Dad semi-permanently is the one that doesn't owrk :( Aug 03 04:53:41 s/owrk/work Aug 03 04:54:15 either users to force sim changes, RMA, shipping or FIC to do something special; either way this is an expensive problem Aug 03 04:54:48 i must say, im quite impressed with the quality of the speakers in the neo Aug 03 04:54:55 they actually sound DAMN good Aug 03 04:54:57 hopefully TI will sort it out quickly, but until then, i ordered a 2g from ebay Aug 03 04:55:19 Psi_, i've had no luck with the images you recommended Aug 03 04:55:26 it is a _new_ card, never activated...hopefully :) Aug 03 04:56:17 jaebird: are you in the US? if so, how do you get a provider to activate a "rogue" card? Aug 03 04:56:21 i got too many rollover mins and unlimitted data to use prepay...need to switch Aug 03 04:56:40 daMaestro, madplay doesnt work? Aug 03 04:56:52 i just called the # and ask the CSR to activate my new sim Aug 03 04:56:57 NEW being the operative word Aug 03 04:57:05 ahhh...cool Aug 03 04:57:11 they ask for the ICCID and charge me 18 bucks. Aug 03 04:57:13 done. Aug 03 04:57:38 ahhh...got to know those KEY words :) Aug 03 04:57:47 my only skepticism is that i heard 2g cards were not be activated anymore Aug 03 04:57:53 Psi_, i've not tried Aug 03 04:57:55 but it is worth the 10bucks from ebay Aug 03 04:58:06 copy a mp3 on and just go madplay Aug 03 04:58:11 worked for me Aug 03 04:58:16 Psi_, what is the root password for this image? Aug 03 04:58:22 wtf Aug 03 04:58:28 say something like your other sim card doesn't work all the time and is getting flaky Aug 03 04:58:38 mine didnt have any Aug 03 04:58:42 just hit enter Aug 03 04:58:54 g'nite all Aug 03 04:58:58 gnite Aug 03 04:59:20 * moko-bunny tries to find the SIM card in his TDMA phone ;) Aug 03 04:59:41 yeah.. ok Aug 03 04:59:45 this last flash worked Aug 03 05:00:37 damn, but the phone locked up when trying to change the password Aug 03 05:00:46 i'm seeing some really strange issues Aug 03 05:00:59 where is the information i need on how to erase my nand? Aug 03 05:01:14 know how to get find to return escape sequences to the shell? I was trying to do madplay -z `find /media/card -name *.mp3` but most of my files have spaces and aren't escaped properly :( Aug 03 05:01:52 moko-bunny, i normally use | xargs Aug 03 05:01:58 i renamed it to save time Aug 03 05:02:18 moko-bunny, tried using tab ? Aug 03 05:02:27 daMaestro: cool...I'll try that Aug 03 05:03:04 Psi_: yeah, that works for one song...I wanted to pull the whole card as a playlist and shuffle it Aug 03 05:03:22 oh.. you should really, really rename them Aug 03 05:03:55 daMaestro: I suppose :) Aug 03 05:04:19 ive not tried my card yet, Aug 03 05:04:24 * Psi_ tries to mount Aug 03 05:04:53 * moko-bunny looks away Aug 03 05:07:02 what device is the card? Aug 03 05:07:08 mmcblk0p1? Aug 03 05:09:49 grr..... ok the device locked up again Aug 03 05:09:55 this time when trying to use gsmd Aug 03 05:10:09 what were you using? Aug 03 05:10:42 the choose open images Aug 03 05:11:31 i made my call with sound using cu -l Aug 03 05:13:24 It also does not erase rootfs before flashing it... to do that, do minicom /dev/ttyACM0, then nand erase clean rootfs . Aug 03 05:13:35 what? Aug 03 05:14:16 i never erased my flash between versions, but then, ive only had 2 on it Aug 03 05:19:47 Psi_: you dont need to mount the card is automounted Aug 03 05:20:00 df -h :P Aug 03 05:21:41 yea Aug 03 05:22:01 card is working fine Aug 03 05:25:51 cool Aug 03 05:26:01 just checked the mp3 and stereo works Aug 03 05:28:34 * Psi_ copies proper synthesized music from DOOM I and II to neo Aug 03 05:28:46 nice Aug 03 05:28:55 i actually just battled prboom for like 5 hours last night Aug 03 05:29:02 heh Aug 03 05:29:26 did it work? Aug 03 05:29:58 not from the neo Aug 03 06:02:04 yay, dialer app finally worked for me Aug 03 06:02:28 and even had audio, although it was very quiet and full of GSM radio noise Aug 03 06:27:05 Psi_, still using the choose open images? Aug 03 06:27:13 yep Aug 03 06:27:22 damn.. i need to find out how to flash my nand Aug 03 06:27:25 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Calendar]] [[P1_Owners]] [[OpenMoko]] [[Carriers/Fido]] [[Carriers/Rogers]] [[Carriers/ATT]] Aug 03 06:28:07 where do i run minicom /dev/ttyACM0, then nand erase clean rootfs? Aug 03 07:07:03 Morning all Aug 03 07:10:33 Evening Aug 03 07:24:27 morning Aug 03 07:30:53 TRIsoft what time is it there it is 5.30pm here\ Aug 03 07:31:31 I notice that people are able to hack the iphone to put their own apps together. Aug 03 07:32:08 darmou: Actual time in Hemmingen, Germany is: 09:30 :-) Aug 03 07:52:06 * hhf423 yawns Aug 03 07:53:34 counter Aug 03 07:53:34 (last update 2007-07-27 06:54) http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter : Order https://direct.openmoko.com/ ; Delivered prob. 75% in 02:03:10 (0.086±0.1 days) (1789;252) Aug 03 08:17:52 Hello, anyone getting errors with mokomakefile when compiling perl-native-5.8.7-r3 ? error : "SysV.xs:7:25: error: asm/page.h: No such file or directory" Aug 03 08:18:08 * Dmitry_Platonov had Aug 03 08:18:14 arg, I'm pulling out my hair here Aug 03 08:18:22 according to http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.perl5.porters/2007/02/msg121370.html perl should not include it Aug 03 08:18:43 it will build if you remove this #include Aug 03 08:19:00 this patch in kernel http://lkml.org/lkml/2007/1/5/1 removed the export of asm/pages, and perl was patched consenquently Aug 03 08:19:33 ok, i'll check how to add custom patches to the mokomakefile process until it's fixed upstream Aug 03 08:21:37 you can edit .bb and add SRC_URI += "file://qqq.patch;patch=1" Aug 03 08:23:49 Dmitry_Platonov: ok, thank you Aug 03 08:24:42 ml8128_: then create a patch which does that automatically, and which puts the qqq.patch file into the right place for bitbake to pick it up, and then pastebin that patch and ping me to add it to mokomakefile Aug 03 08:26:19 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Neo1973_and_Windows]] [[SH1_FAQ]] [[P1_Owners]] [[Translation]] [[Carriers]] [[Category:Carriers]] [[Carriers/Rogers]] [[User_talk:Glenn]] [[Carriers/Fido]] [[Carriers/TMobile]] [[Carriers/ATT]] Aug 03 08:27:09 ml8128_: see /home/moko/patches/openembedded-e2dbb52fe39df7ef786b6068f6178f29508dfded/dash-support-for-building-perl.patch for an example of how to do that. Aug 03 08:27:50 In particular, note how it creates openembedded/packages/perl/files/native-makedepend-dash.patch and then patches the .bb file to use it. Aug 03 08:31:28 I'm trying to create a bitbake recipe using autotools and I keep getting this error: "No rule to make target `install'". anyone else have this problem Aug 03 08:32:26 mrface: think that is because you don't have some of the required files, you need at least 'configure' in there before it will work Aug 03 08:32:53 but autoconf is supposed to make configure isn't it? Aug 03 08:33:05 I'll try that Aug 03 08:36:21 paravoid: heh? "softmac" is what's crappier Aug 03 08:36:57 rwhitby, is there any plans on adding 2007.2 support to mokomakefile? Aug 03 08:37:36 jgm: I put configure in there as well as Makefile and I get the exact same error Aug 03 08:37:39 Dmitry_Platonov: mokomakefile simply builds whatever the core team builds. Aug 03 08:37:57 the next line down says " FATAL: oe_runmake failed" Aug 03 08:37:59 mrface: In that case you may be in the wrong directory, can you pastebin the output Aug 03 08:38:08 when the coreteam makes "bitbake openmoko-devel-image" build OM 2007.2, then mokomakefile will build it automatically. Aug 03 08:38:16 The last 20 lines or so beforehand would be useful Aug 03 08:40:25 jgm: sure, hope I did it right. first time. http://pastebin.com/d5cf3a56 Aug 03 08:42:59 Thanks, can you clean the package and run it again? And also pastebin the bitbake file Aug 03 08:43:16 mrface: does your Makefile have an 'install' target in it? Aug 03 08:43:24 jgm: sorry, how to clean it? Aug 03 08:43:58 rwhitby: `make install` does install stuff, so I guess yeah Aug 03 08:44:19 bitbake -c clean coach Aug 03 08:44:30 mrface: bitbake disagrees with you: "make DESTDIR=/home/moko/build/tmp/work/armv4t-linux/coach-0.0.1-r0/image install" Aug 03 08:44:38 "make: *** No rule to make target `install'. Stop." Aug 03 08:44:38 openmoko: 03thomas * r2613 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-mediaplayer/ (61 files in 3 dirs): * Remove spurious svn:executable properties Aug 03 08:45:30 mrface: what is the path of the Makefile which has your install target in it? Aug 03 08:45:35 rwhitby: strange, when I generated the makefile manually using automake and ran make install it worked fine Aug 03 08:46:25 "manually" being the operative word. Does the one which results from bitbake configuring your program have an install target in it? Aug 03 08:46:43 rwhitby: good question. lemme see Aug 03 08:48:53 output after cleaning: http://pastebin.com/dce03f7 Aug 03 08:49:53 bb file: http://pastebin.com/d683690ab Aug 03 08:50:00 mrface: ta, the makefile in question should be in /home/moko/build/tmp/work/armv4t-linux/coach-0.0.1-r0/ Aug 03 08:50:19 yes, there is no makefile there ? Aug 03 08:50:41 the source files are there, why isn't autotools making that stuff? Aug 03 08:50:58 Ah, if that is all there is there then you do need some extra files Aug 03 08:51:10 ohhhh, in the bb file? Aug 03 08:51:40 Yep, you need the basic files for autotools to do its job Aug 03 08:51:52 doh! thanks guys Aug 03 08:52:00 I knew it was something silly Aug 03 08:52:44 You need a configure file, it will do the rest Aug 03 08:54:02 jgm: one thing I'm a little confused about though. in the bb file, I refer to the source files as "file://coach.c" and so on. coach.c is in the files/ directory, but configure is in the directory beneath that. do I need to put configure in there? Aug 03 08:56:13 Well you only need one configure, it should be at the top-level of your distribution. Then you have a bunch of Makefile.am files that were referenced in the configure file (ultimately from configure.ac) that do the work of traversing the tree structure Aug 03 08:56:48 Normally you'd have a top-level directory with configure and a Makefile.am with just subdirectories, then a lower-level directory (e.g. src) with the files to compile and a suitable Makefile.am to do that work Aug 03 08:57:33 but then how do I list configure in the bb file... it seems to infer that everything is under "files" Aug 03 08:58:51 I'd assume that you step down a level, so 'files' contains configure and 'files/src' contains the .c and .h files Aug 03 08:59:16 ahh good idea Aug 03 08:59:16 (I use subversion so just have a single URL to pull the entire directory structure) Aug 03 08:59:36 I think I might try that as well Aug 03 08:59:52 :) thanks a bunch dude Aug 03 09:01:57 If you want to look at the stuff I'm working on as a template it's extd on projects.openmoko.org Aug 03 09:02:04 And I can send you the bitbake file if you want Aug 03 09:02:48 so you don't keep the bitbake file in subversion? Aug 03 09:03:42 yo, got my neo :-D Aug 03 09:04:07 mrface: nah haven't bothered yet. Ideally once this is all ready it will be added to the 'official' set of bitbake recipies Aug 03 09:04:25 ahh, that makes sense Aug 03 09:04:55 that helps me out a ton, thanks Aug 03 09:12:53 rwhitby: http://pastebin.ca/644145 . perl-native-5.8.7 compiled fine with this Aug 03 09:18:53 good morning Aug 03 09:29:10 howdy Aug 03 09:37:56 jgm: you still there? can I take a gander at your bb recipe? Aug 03 09:40:03 mrface: sure Aug 03 09:41:19 http://pastebin.ca/644158 Aug 03 09:42:14 You may be missing the S variable, which tells bitbake where to find the files after you have checked out the files from svn Aug 03 09:43:52 yes, I was thank you, I also didn't know you could use a subversion url in the recipe. I was linking to the nightly snapshot, haha Aug 03 09:45:35 You can set the date for the svn URI to be now which will always pull down the latest but it sounds like bad practice so I set a specific revision, you need to remember to bump it each time you commit though Aug 03 09:49:05 jgm: ahh, that makes sense Aug 03 09:49:19 yay!! It's almost working now Aug 03 09:55:54 thank you *so* much jgm, you totally made my day Aug 03 09:56:11 unfortunately I can't stay up to get this compiling tonight, it is way too late Aug 03 10:00:34 openmoko: 03rwhitby * r108 10mokomakefile/trunk/Makefile: Fixed typo on openmoko-devel-tools phony line. Thanks to Hadaka Aug 03 10:05:22 Is there a way to tell battery voltage from uboot? Aug 03 10:05:45 hi. wiki has some places that could be updated or cleared up, but i don't feel confident or knowledgeable enough to do that myself Aug 03 10:05:48 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973#.22Phase_2.22_.28GTA02.2C_.22Mass_Market.22.29 Aug 03 10:05:54 here, new components info is partially duplicated Aug 03 10:06:49 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973_Hardware#AGPS - ths refers to mid april in future, so recent information would be welcome Aug 03 10:07:38 http://loadingreadyrun.com/videos/view/201/Installation offtopic, but about linux :-) Aug 03 10:08:03 Look on [[Category:GPS]] and [[Server:AGPS]] and [[Hammerhead/Protocol]] Aug 03 10:16:45 rwhitby, you still here Aug 03 10:16:47 ? Aug 03 10:16:58 &seen rwhitby Aug 03 10:17:10 apt, seen rwhitby Aug 03 10:17:12 rwhitby is currently on #maemo (3d 9h 35m 13s) #oe (3d 9h 35m 13s) #openmoko (3d 9h 35m 13s) #nslu2-linux (3d 9h 35m 13s) #openjtag (3d 9h 35m 13s) #openslug (3d 9h 35m 13s). Has said a total of 52 messages. Is idling for 1h 30m 47s, last said: '"manually" being the operative word. Does the one which ... Aug 03 10:18:14 http://www.dilbert.com/comics/dilbert/archive/images/dilbert2007018331803.gif Aug 03 10:18:43 Richlv: yeah - fixed the second - the first needs merging of the footnotes into the table. Aug 03 10:21:31 FuzzyCat: here Aug 03 10:21:55 gah, I'm dying for Openmoko 2007.2 or Ã…ngstrom or Poky pre-built images but nothing seems to be available Aug 03 10:23:04 rwhitby: any timeline for mokomakefile update to 2007.2? :) Aug 03 10:23:48 MokoMakefile is simply a wrapper around the openmoko bitbake recipes. Talk to the people who maintain those recipes. Aug 03 10:24:40 Is there a 'charger voltage' or similar command for u-boot? Aug 03 10:24:59 rwhitby: Hmh, right - I thought there was just a problem with build layout changing or something Aug 03 10:26:01 Hadaka: not that I know of. MokoMakefile just runs "bitbake openmoko-devel-image" - is there a different bitbake recipe it should be baking? Aug 03 10:26:32 news on a phone by google: http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&articleId=9028763 Aug 03 10:26:36 rwhitby: nope - here's all I know about the subject (just found it in the wiki): http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/OpenMoko2007.2 Aug 03 10:26:39 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Neo1973:_GTA01Bv4_versus_GTA02_comparison]] [[Neo1973_Hardware]] [[P1_Owners]] [[SH1_FAQ]] [[GSM]] [[OpenMoko_Local_Groups:_Singapore]] [[OpenMoko_Local_Groups]] Aug 03 10:27:24 SpeedEvil, oh, great. would you be interested in some other problems ? :) Aug 03 10:28:10 nm rwhitby ... you just answered it.. Aug 03 10:28:42 Hadaka: that stuff will be built when the OpenMoko core team decides that it is time to unfreeze the openembedded monotone revision. I expect this will happen after mickey|zzZZzz has finished his svn->monotone merge. Aug 03 10:28:50 Richlv: I'll fix any page for $10 per :) Aug 03 10:29:16 SpeedEvil, oh. how much is paid for pointing them out ? ;> Aug 03 10:29:20 Richlv: If you feel like it, note on User:SpeedEvil stuff you notice. Aug 03 10:29:24 $-10 Aug 03 10:29:29 s Aug 03 10:29:37 . Aug 03 10:29:46 rwhitby: right - well then, getting 2007.2 to build now seems to be a bit of bother :( Aug 03 10:30:22 that page is describing just building OpenEmbedded HEAD for fic-gta01 Aug 03 10:31:32 If I power off in fast charge mode, it stays charging? Aug 03 10:31:39 Getting OpenEmbedded HEAD to build at any point in time may or may not be possible. That's why openmoko freezes the OE version used. Aug 03 10:32:43 rwhitby: right - but if I change OPENMOKO_MTN_REV to be HEAD, is there something that breaks in mokomakefile side, or would the breakage be just in openmoko/oe? Aug 03 10:33:10 if you change it to HEAD, then it should build oe head, which may or may not build. Aug 03 10:33:42 from http://www.economist.com/science/displaystory.cfm?story_id=9531007 : "Unlike the iPhone, the Neo comes with global positioning and navigation maps" Aug 03 10:33:48 it comes with maps ? Aug 03 10:34:00 haha. Aug 03 10:34:03 well - no. Aug 03 10:34:10 Hadaka: you would need to do a "make update" after changing it, of course. Aug 03 10:34:14 OpenMap or what it's called? Aug 03 10:34:14 It does not comes yet 8) Aug 03 10:34:16 it comes with wget L( Aug 03 10:34:18 See [[Openstreetmap]] on the page Aug 03 10:34:23 wiki Aug 03 10:34:25 s/L\(/\:\)/ Aug 03 10:34:26 OpenStreetmap, rigt. Aug 03 10:34:37 rwhitby: obviously - well, I'll see what happens Aug 03 10:34:48 OSM - and there isn't a client - isn't a usable map for most people for a decade at the inside. Aug 03 10:34:53 the article also claims "But best of all, they wonÿt have to pay all those scandalous roaming charges when travelling abroad." Aug 03 10:35:09 i'm a bit confused. what neo/openmoko has to do with roaming charges ? Aug 03 10:35:25 SIP? Aug 03 10:35:33 at a guess Aug 03 10:35:52 Hadaka: also note that it will make you do a "make clobber-openembedded setup-openembedded" which will rebuild absolutely everything. So be prepared for a long wait. Aug 03 10:36:04 openmoko: 03njp * r2614 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-dialer2/ (5 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed) Aug 03 10:36:04 openmoko: 2007-08-03 Neil J. Patel Aug 03 10:36:04 openmoko: * src/moko-contacts.c: (moko_contacts_get_photo), Aug 03 10:36:04 openmoko: (moko_contacts_lookup), (moko_contacts_add_contact), Aug 03 10:36:04 openmoko: (moko_contacts_init): Aug 03 10:36:05 openmoko: When searching for a contact, it it doesn't have a photo, look for it. Aug 03 10:36:09 openmoko: * src/moko-dialer.c: (on_incoming_call), (on_incoming_clip), Aug 03 10:36:17 Richlv: iPhone forces you to use AT&T subscription - using AT&T abroad incurs horrible roaming charges Aug 03 10:36:27 Richlv, unlocked phone, you can by local prepaid SIMs Aug 03 10:37:54 pay as you go Aug 03 10:38:10 Hadaka: you might save some time by just commenting out the OPENMOKO_MTN_REV - this will build oe head without requiring a full rebuild, but there is no guarantee that will work. Aug 03 10:38:34 FuzzyCat, btw, what does "pay as you go" mean? Aug 03 10:38:42 rwhitby: full rebuild is fine - this machine hasn't built a devel image before Aug 03 10:39:14 tuukkah, contract free... Aug 03 10:39:20 Hadaka: do it before you do a make setup then. Aug 03 10:39:32 you buy a little package (or get it free) that has a SIM in it... Aug 03 10:39:48 ok, it's a bit clearer now. article dismissed local sims, but that probably was because you an't put another sim in iphone (right ?) Aug 03 10:39:53 then you can go to petrol/gas stations, ATM's and lots of other places and buy credit Aug 03 10:40:03 it's a bit confusing, from european perspective :) Aug 03 10:40:06 FuzzyCat, so i suppose "pay as you go" is what we call "prepaid" Aug 03 10:40:10 even though we also have locked phones here Aug 03 10:40:10 yes Aug 03 10:40:40 Richlv, yes, the markets are very different... Aug 03 10:41:02 it's the one place where Europe gets a better deal than the US Aug 03 10:41:21 selling locked phones used to be illegal here. i hate i changed with 3G Aug 03 10:41:47 damn i hope openmoko is great. i convinced my gf to put off gps unit purchase, hoping that openmoko could be adequate for our needs ;) Aug 03 10:42:03 What do you want the GPS for? Aug 03 10:42:10 If it's maps, that may be a long time. Aug 03 10:42:14 errm, not for a while methinks Richlv Aug 03 10:42:17 the problem is the data Aug 03 10:42:24 map data ? Aug 03 10:42:28 yes Aug 03 10:42:32 if you want a real bargin look at ebuyer... Aug 03 10:42:35 Richlv: are you thinking of using the openmoko as a bluetooth gps device? Aug 03 10:42:37 it's not legally available for download. Aug 03 10:42:38 they have one for 99 quid... Aug 03 10:42:45 one of the guys here just got one... Aug 03 10:42:54 pretty damn good Aug 03 10:42:57 Richlv: or actually viewing maps on the device? Aug 03 10:42:59 well, there are people here who are taking local mapping applications and adding coordinate info to them - and then using them in garmin units Aug 03 10:43:06 Hadaka, well, primary need would be just coords Aug 03 10:43:18 maps would be nice, of course Aug 03 10:43:29 even if i have to convert them :) Aug 03 10:43:36 i'd like to know where these people get their maps: http://www.gpsdrive.de/ Aug 03 10:43:38 Richlv: coords will be soon available, maps will take a while Aug 03 10:44:00 Hadaka, but would similar process be possible as with self-converted maps for garmins ? Aug 03 10:44:11 tuukkah, google / microsoft Aug 03 10:44:12 etc Aug 03 10:44:31 tuukkah: there's a listing on the features page telling what they can use Aug 03 10:44:57 google maps on openmoko with gps tracking Aug 03 10:44:59 * Richlv ducks Aug 03 10:45:07 eventually Aug 03 10:45:10 You can use google-maps. Aug 03 10:45:12 Richlv: well, the big problem will be that there won't be a map *application* for a while - getting the actual maps is easier if you *krhm* lend google maps :) Aug 03 10:45:15 probably would be only possible in wifi coverage :) Aug 03 10:45:24 but gprs/wifi costs are an issue Aug 03 10:45:27 However, with a flat-rate data plan, that's possible. Aug 03 10:45:34 Hadaka, thanks, so expedia and nasa satellite images at least Aug 03 10:45:42 Hadaka, oh, indeed. lack of map app could slow me down :) Aug 03 10:45:43 SpeedEvil, only up to a point.. Aug 03 10:45:46 Richlv: and also, a browser which supports google maps is going to take a while Aug 03 10:45:52 unlimited != unlimited Aug 03 10:46:13 Hadaka, maybe opera mini will support them by that time :) Aug 03 10:46:21 FuzzyCat, indeed. small print. Aug 03 10:46:28 does google maps terms of service permit us to download the map images? Aug 03 10:46:31 where they redefine word 'unlimited'. bastards Aug 03 10:46:34 tuukkah: no Aug 03 10:46:40 so there =) Aug 03 10:46:49 tuukkah: but they *are* available, and if you do it for personal use... Aug 03 10:46:53 Bah, they tried to deliver the phone but I'm not yet home.. 3 more days Aug 03 10:47:01 btw, wiki says 'no edge' - is edge planned ? if yes, will 02 have it ? Aug 03 10:47:08 that is, if you don't distribute them ever and don't preconfigure the software to fetch them from google maps Aug 03 10:47:14 Richlv: 02 will not have EDGE Aug 03 10:47:24 Richlv: but yeah, it is planned Aug 03 10:47:31 so maps over gprs would not be possible also because of that :) Aug 03 10:47:53 gprs w/o edge is not sufficient for anything past text Aug 03 10:47:58 well, that's not exactly true - google maps works quite nicely over plain GPRS without EDGE - I use it often Aug 03 10:48:02 Hadaka, so then it's only the individual users who are breaking the terms of service Aug 03 10:48:08 the images are really not that large Aug 03 10:48:14 tuukkah: yes Aug 03 10:48:24 hooray ;-) Aug 03 10:48:57 actually, porting MaemoMapper over to Openmoko shouldn't be too hard - and that can use several different map sources and supports GPS positioning Aug 03 10:49:13 but still, it might take a while Aug 03 10:49:14 in some regions openstreetmap coverage is pretty good Aug 03 10:49:19 w00t! w00t! Aug 03 10:49:26 Very few regions though. Aug 03 10:49:29 Hadaka, oh, that's good to hear. would that also be true for moving subjects ? Aug 03 10:49:49 my Nokia N770 just arrived.... well I say mine, the boss just brought it for me :) Aug 03 10:50:05 Richlv: if you mean live GPS updates with automatic scrolling - certainly Aug 03 10:50:17 let's home 1 mil Neo users will contribute to OSM :) Aug 03 10:50:18 * SpeedEvil has just flashed his neo. Aug 03 10:50:23 * SpeedEvil wonders if it'll boot. Aug 03 10:50:25 http://gnuite.com:8080/nokia770/maemo-mapper/ Aug 03 10:50:28 s/home/hope/ Aug 03 10:50:29 SpeedEvil: congrats Aug 03 10:50:29 Dmitry_Platonov meant: let's hope 1 mil Neo users will contribute to OSM :) Aug 03 10:50:40 s/mil/bil/ Aug 03 10:51:20 userspace Aug 03 10:51:36 SpeedEvil, what image? Aug 03 10:51:45 oldish one Aug 03 10:52:01 from the chroot image on the wiki Aug 03 10:52:33 FuzzyCat: nokia 770 - not nokia n770 Aug 03 10:52:45 http://chooseopen.com/openmoko/build/openmoko-devel-image-fic-gta01-20070728230649.rootfs.jffs2 - downloading now. Aug 03 10:53:03 openmoko: 03njp * r2615 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-dialer2/ (ChangeLog src/moko-contacts.c): Aug 03 10:53:03 openmoko: 2007-08-03 Neil J. Patel Aug 03 10:53:03 openmoko: * src/moko-contacts.c: (moko_contacts_finalize): Aug 03 10:53:03 openmoko: Free lists/structs properly. Aug 03 10:53:39 Booted :) Aug 03 10:53:45 nokia 770 yes Aug 03 10:53:59 FuzzyCat: I have one as well - it's a nice device Aug 03 10:54:33 cute looking... just going to charge it ... Aug 03 10:54:43 http://chooseopen.com/openmoko/ are OE based? Aug 03 10:54:44 is there a good medai player on it/ for it? Aug 03 10:55:10 FuzzyCat: you might want to flash some newer images on it - but yes to both accounts Aug 03 10:55:21 FuzzyCat: if you want a nice music player, check out urho konttori's media player Aug 03 10:56:07 got a url? Aug 03 10:56:15 old blogpost about it: http://konttoristhoughts.blogspot.com/2007/03/new-media-player-for-n800-it-770.html Aug 03 10:56:30 ta Aug 03 10:56:51 oh, that looks sweet! Aug 03 10:58:12 that *has* to be gotten on openmoko ;) - but it's pretty optimized specifically for n770/n800 - so things will probably be done quite differently on openmoko Aug 03 10:58:48 will this be removed for 02 ? http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973_Hardware#Stereo_Amplifier Aug 03 10:59:28 Unlikely. Aug 03 10:59:37 The reason for no stereo is missing speaker. Aug 03 10:59:43 It can still drive the headset. Aug 03 10:59:49 oh, ok. i thought it is going to be nuked altogether Aug 03 11:00:03 two speakers were determined to be an overkill ? Aug 03 11:00:13 Case design was fixed. Aug 03 11:00:24 Speaker took room that could be swapped for wifi. Aug 03 11:01:20 Case? I thought only PCB changed Aug 03 11:01:28 it did. Aug 03 11:01:39 As the case design was fixed, the internal room was fixed. Aug 03 11:02:32 Ah, read as fixed=changed Aug 03 11:12:17 SpeedEvil - How's cupcake cooking going? Aug 03 11:13:58 not yet Aug 03 11:13:59 Did they call you from UPS yet, Henrikw? Aug 03 11:14:13 booted - in shell - now have to connect over usb-ether Aug 03 11:14:16 Henrikw: They just called me for VAT, 612NOK Aug 03 11:14:32 Hadaka: BTW, you will need to use bitbake 1.8.5 at least to build OE head. Aug 03 11:14:37 Vegar: The full cost is about 3300 NOK, I'll know exactly when the VISA bill comes. :-) Aug 03 11:15:03 rwhitby: yeah, I changed the bitbake version, which causes a lot of errors like this NOTE: This BitBake doesn't support revision fetching, falling back to current date Aug 03 11:15:08 daxxar: hm.. I payed 607 :p Aug 03 11:15:15 Henrikw: What? :-( Aug 03 11:15:17 I feel cheated! Aug 03 11:15:19 daxxar: nice Aug 03 11:15:20 hehehe Aug 03 11:15:29 rwhitby: I had to remove bitbake patches as well ofcourse Aug 03 11:15:34 Hadaka: exactly. It's really a lost cause trying to build it at the moment. Aug 03 11:15:43 rwhitby: it's still doing something so I don't know if it'll build - but I'm not too hopeful Aug 03 11:16:03 Henrikw: Do you own a lot of electronic equipment? (loddebolt, multimeter, osv) Aug 03 11:16:17 You can either build openmoko svn + frozen OE revision, or you can build OE head with no openmoko SVN stuff. You can't really build openmoko svn plus OE head. Aug 03 11:16:31 daxxar: yep :) Aug 03 11:16:44 Henrikw: Okay. Was just thinking, if you didn't, you should consider joining OV. (Omega Verksted) Aug 03 11:17:12 Henrikw: It's a student organization aimed at members of Omega (linjeforening for siving elektro), but open for anyone, that has a workshop at NTNU with a lot fo available equipment Aug 03 11:17:14 daxxar: been thinking of that for a loong time ;) when and where? Aug 03 11:17:17 s/fo/of/ Aug 03 11:17:17 daxxar meant: Henrikw: It's a student organization aimed at members of Omega (linjeofrening for siving elektro), but open for anyone, that has a workshop at NTNU with a lot fo available equipment Aug 03 11:17:46 openmoko: 03chris * r2616 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/libraries/libmokojournal2/ (ChangeLog configure.ac mokojournal/moko-journal.c): Check for existence of ECalComponentId Aug 03 11:18:17 daxxar: it's kind of hidden down in the NTNU catacombs isn't it :p Aug 03 11:18:18 To join? It costs about 150 NOK, it's in "Elektrobygget" at NTNU, if you're familiar with it, in the basement. You could talk to a few of them in their IRC channel, #ov/EFNet Aug 03 11:18:28 anyone here from Germany who already received their Neo1973? Did you have to pick it up at customs? Or did UPS deliver to the door? Aug 03 11:18:36 Not too hard to find it, but yes, you probably want someone to take you there the first time. ;-) Aug 03 11:18:50 I know, antennelaben is also in elektrobygget ;) Aug 03 11:18:51 Stupid question. where is the cdc-ether driver in menuconfig? Aug 03 11:18:59 Ah, right. :-) Aug 03 11:19:28 SpeedEvil - Huh. Hmm. Use "/" for search, then "cdc_ether" Aug 03 11:19:31 but still don't know where Omega Verksted is.. Aug 03 11:19:33 I'm a member, but never done any work down there, only been there to purchase some components. I should try hanging there more to do hobby projects, as I really haven't got any decent equipment at home (yet). Aug 03 11:20:19 ah. ok, I've got some equipment/components at home and loads of goos stuff at work :) Aug 03 11:20:33 s/goos/good Aug 03 11:20:33 Elrond: odd - not found Aug 03 11:20:42 I see it in drivers/usb/net, so ... Aug 03 11:21:16 SpeedEvil - Device Drivers -> USB support -> USB Network Adapters Aug 03 11:21:26 counter_msg Got it! Aug 03 11:21:26 aloril2 changed counter prefix message to Got it! Aug 03 11:21:42 aloril: counter? Aug 03 11:21:43 Got it! (1790;252) Aug 03 11:21:48 Hehe. :-P Aug 03 11:21:58 daxxar: hmm.. I really wonder why you had to pay 5,- more than me :p Aug 03 11:22:16 I guess we're paying VAT for shipment - and you payed less shipment than me? Aug 03 11:22:18 Ddi you pay today? Aug 03 11:22:32 Elrond: it seems to have no generic subset - but, compiling. Aug 03 11:22:54 rwhitby: ping Aug 03 11:23:03 yes, paid by visa-card. selected expedited shipping Aug 03 11:23:13 display is sharp, though I expected that based on koen's clolesup image Aug 03 11:23:54 kernel messages scrolled much faster than expected Aug 03 11:23:55 ml8128_: gu Aug 03 11:24:02 Hm, yes, I think that's what I had too (the cheapest, right?) Aug 03 11:24:09 yes Aug 03 11:26:05 What country are these customs? Aug 03 11:26:54 openmoko: 03njp * r2617 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/libraries/libmokojournal2/ (3 files in 2 dirs): Aug 03 11:26:54 openmoko: 2007-08-03 Neil J. Patel Aug 03 11:26:54 openmoko: * mokojournal/moko-journal.c: Aug 03 11:26:54 openmoko: (moko_journal_voice_info_set_distant_number): Aug 03 11:26:54 openmoko: * mokojournal/moko-journal.h: Aug 03 11:26:55 openmoko: Use const when accepting string arguments. Aug 03 11:27:28 ewanm89mob: Talking 'bout us? Norway. :-) Aug 03 11:27:52 daxxar: how much was shipping? Aug 03 11:28:29 Vegar: They said $74.61 USD Aug 03 11:28:45 Vegar: But they also said the compensated for rates and such, so it was probably less. Aug 03 11:28:56 Anyone from Norway got it yet? In that case did you have to pay taxes? Aug 03 11:28:57 I dunno. Atleast the total cost is about ~3300,- (NOK) Aug 03 11:29:04 goxboxlive: We've paid VAT for it, yes. Aug 03 11:29:12 i c Aug 03 11:29:33 goxboxlive: It hasn't arrived, but it's arriving in a few days. Got called by UPS Sweden so that they could charge VAT (mva) for it, about 610,- Aug 03 11:30:09 So if you want to sneak out of VAT, you have to get it shipped to another country, and privately shipped to Norway from there. ;-.P Aug 03 11:30:44 rwhitby: you had time to look at the patch ? http://pastebin.ca/644145 Aug 03 11:30:46 ok, even haevnt got them reply mail from the mokostore yet Aug 03 11:31:49 Yeah, well then everyone beware of Norway customs, they can't add. Aug 03 11:32:38 hehe, you'll just have to call them on a good time of day (right after lunch or something ;)) Aug 03 11:33:29 ewanm89mob: AFAIK UPS calculates the norwegian VAT, and pays it to the customs (to not get charged by customs for administrative work) Aug 03 11:34:55 plus it probably adds a fee for all that work. Aug 03 11:35:10 Oh, well then UPS can't add, everyone beware. Aug 03 11:35:17 Hehe, true. :-) Aug 03 11:35:20 daxxar: oh, that's nice Aug 03 11:35:35 I love how to of the same order, on the same shipment, planned delivery on the same day (to the same city), has different VAT. ;-) Aug 03 11:35:37 because the administrative fee is.. well.. not exactly cheap Aug 03 11:35:45 Vegar: Like 100 NOK :) Aug 03 11:35:55 it's more, isn't it? Aug 03 11:36:02 Could be, not sure Aug 03 11:36:21 Well I paid approx 20 euro Aug 03 11:36:23 Henrikw: Btw, best way to become a OV member is to come to OV after school start, :-) Aug 03 11:36:33 daxxar: ah, ok Aug 03 11:36:44 Henrikw: It's kinda deserted these days. Aug 03 11:36:51 openmoko: 03rwhitby * r109 10mokomakefile/trunk/patches/openembedded-e2dbb52fe39df7ef786b6068f6178f29508dfded/ (perl-remove-asm-pages.patch series): Added patch to enable perl to build now that asm/page.h is no longer supported. Thanks to ml8128_. Aug 03 11:36:58 ml8128_: th Aug 03 11:36:59 x Aug 03 11:37:26 daxxar: yeah, it's really quiet. not long before that changes though Aug 03 11:38:21 True Aug 03 11:38:27 Couple'o weks Aug 03 11:38:28 weeks Aug 03 11:38:40 mhm Aug 03 11:38:58 loads of confused people :p Aug 03 11:39:53 Hehe Aug 03 11:42:19 mave_pan: you already got your Neo? Did you have to pick it up at customs or did UPS deliver it to your door? Aug 03 11:44:54 hhf423, don't know if a answer from me is ok, too: usually UPS delivers to your door Aug 03 11:46:15 yeah at least here in Finland they took care of the customs (and charged me, of coursE) Aug 03 11:46:20 and home-delivered Aug 03 11:46:29 mjr, yes, they always do Aug 03 11:46:36 the same for fedex Aug 03 11:46:46 maybe thats the reason, why they are so expensive :) Aug 03 11:46:53 but I like this service Aug 03 11:48:41 openmoko: 03njp * r2618 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-dialer2/ (ChangeLog src/moko-dialer.c): Aug 03 11:48:41 openmoko: 2007-08-03 Neil J. Patel Aug 03 11:48:41 openmoko: * src/moko-dialer.c: (on_keypad_dial_clicked), Aug 03 11:48:41 openmoko: (on_talking_accept_call), (on_talking_reject_call), Aug 03 11:48:41 openmoko: (on_incoming_call), (on_incoming_clip), (on_call_progress_changed): Aug 03 11:48:45 openmoko: Create MokoJournalEntry's for all events. Aug 03 11:49:09 thomasg_: did they for you? Aug 03 11:49:27 that sounds good Aug 03 11:49:34 hhf423, yes, they did Aug 03 11:49:56 thomasg_: ah, thanks. excellent. Aug 03 11:50:26 openmoko: 03chris * r2619 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-today2/ (13 files in 3 dirs): Aug 03 11:50:26 openmoko: - Synchronise with matchbox-desktop-2 Aug 03 11:50:26 openmoko: - Sort rows with NULL components in the event-store to the top Aug 03 11:50:26 openmoko: - Put the 'no events/tasks' message in the treeview for a consistent look Aug 03 11:50:26 openmoko: - Add libmokojournal to dependencies Aug 03 11:50:28 openmoko: - Implement mokojournal summary box (missed calls/unread messages) Aug 03 11:50:47 * hhf423 received his payment notice yesterday :-) Aug 03 11:52:50 thomasg_: which shipping did you choose? slow, medium or fast? Aug 03 11:53:50 hhf423: are you listed on the P1 Owners wiki page? Aug 03 11:54:00 yes Aug 03 11:55:22 hhf423: black or orange phone? Aug 03 11:56:07 hhf423, we chose express Aug 03 11:56:18 hhf423: never mind, found you on there :P Aug 03 11:56:56 ashnazg: I told them I prefer black, but if orage is faster, then orange :-) Aug 03 11:57:26 thomasg_: which is the fastest, I think. Ok, so about 6 days from payment notice to arrival Aug 03 11:57:34 hhf423: probably black then... I'm #1930 waiting for orange, and that color seems to be the slower to bill/ship Aug 03 11:59:51 Kaloz: I don't agree, having a softmac device means that all of the stack is a) in Linux b) hence in GPL Aug 03 12:00:06 paravoid: BS Aug 03 12:00:29 Kaloz: why? Aug 03 12:00:58 paravoid: having a softmac device menas you have to deal with all the timing and other crap in the driver Aug 03 12:01:12 ashnazg, it is known, that the first batch was mostly black devices, only a little white/orange. in the second batch you will recieve your's I guess Aug 03 12:01:45 thomasg_: that's what I'm thinking too... only notes about second group I can find say mid-late August :( Aug 03 12:02:06 Kaloz: yes, having a softmac means that you have to do a *lot* more in the driver Aug 03 12:02:18 Kaloz: but that's a good thing, you have more flexibility Aug 03 12:02:31 you are so wrong :) Aug 03 12:02:54 you don't have more flexibility, as the uploadable firmware still restricts what you can do most of the time Aug 03 12:03:04 if you want flexibility, you can go for software controlled radio Aug 03 12:03:11 but that's a totally different topic :) Aug 03 12:03:24 there's two sides to that coin... do you prefer using database constraints, or do you write all your data integrity enforcement directly into your code? Aug 03 12:03:38 it's the same kind of pro/con list... Aug 03 12:03:39 Kaloz: ah, so you don't call (old) atheros "softmac" Aug 03 12:03:44 as far as flexibility anyway... Aug 03 12:04:23 Kaloz: atheros 5k doesn't have a firmware at all, loadable or not Aug 03 12:04:37 paravoid: atheros ar5k cards always have been software controlled, they never have firmware Aug 03 12:04:51 I know. but this means they are software controlled radios Aug 03 12:05:24 so, that's the problem with that? Aug 03 12:05:33 s/that/what/ Aug 03 12:05:33 paravoid meant: so, what's the problem with that? Aug 03 12:05:53 ok, the have a HAL Aug 03 12:06:00 but it will fully reverse engineered Aug 03 12:06:03 soonish, I guess Aug 03 12:06:11 and? Aug 03 12:06:17 I'm still missing your point Aug 03 12:06:27 the ar5k and the ar6k are totally different designs Aug 03 12:06:36 different features, different markets Aug 03 12:08:08 hi all ! Aug 03 12:08:14 * rwhitby adds dfu-util to optware, which allows openmokians to use an NSLU2 or just about any other router or NAS device with a USB port to reflash their neo. Aug 03 12:09:14 do you know if hardware for next version is freezed ? Aug 03 12:09:15 drizzt: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (and also SH1, SH1_FAQ, Neo1973, Developer_preview and Neo1973_Hardware#GTA01Bv4 pages) (Hopefully these links answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) Aug 03 12:10:07 lol Aug 03 12:10:12 well, my "objection" (more like of an argument) was that, if I understand correctly, ar6k isn't very... flexible Aug 03 12:10:31 My neo is already in poland. Maybe they'll ship it tomorrow? Aug 03 12:10:34 it gets 802.3 frames from the host, isn't that correct? Aug 03 12:11:05 oh how cute, somebody on the community list wants his device duty-free Aug 03 12:11:16 and blames OpenMoko Aug 03 12:13:55 What's the fastest way to get an OpenMoko enviroment up and running? Are there any binaries for Ubuntu? Aug 03 12:18:32 Mukunda, don't know about binaries, but the easiest way (if you don't have problems like me ^^) is to use MokoMakefile I guess Aug 03 12:18:59 * rwhitby uses his router to reflash his neo Aug 03 12:19:42 one more thing i can't find on the wiki... will there be any other charging options besides usb ? Aug 03 12:20:10 Richlv, no Aug 03 12:20:22 rwhitby: yep, because I bet you have such a shortage of computers in your house that you need to use your router... Aug 03 12:20:25 oh, crap. that's kinda bad Aug 03 12:20:28 Richlv, why? Aug 03 12:20:53 so i would be left without phone when going anywhere ? Aug 03 12:20:55 you can get a usb-charger for the standard plug for 10 bucks Aug 03 12:21:03 thomasg_: yes, I've found that, how long does it take to get that up and running? I'd like to play with something tonight. Aug 03 12:21:04 ah, ok. now that's better :) Aug 03 12:21:14 mini-usb is a good choise imho Aug 03 12:21:14 i hope 02 will include one in package ? Aug 03 12:21:17 jgm: actually, the desktops and laptop in my house run windows. And dfu-util doesn't work on vmware, so my router (or the NSLU2 next to it, but it's usb ports are busy) are the only devices which can reliably reflash it. Aug 03 12:21:24 saves space and you can get a charger nearby everywhere Aug 03 12:21:36 Didn't figure you for a windows guy... Aug 03 12:21:36 Mukunda, depends on your hardware Aug 03 12:21:56 if it runs wouthout a problem, it takes about 2-3 hours on my athlon64 3000+ iirc Aug 03 12:22:15 Core duo 1.66Ghz. Hmm. Aug 03 12:22:23 Probably be early in the morning then. Aug 03 12:22:29 jgm: I'm not the only person in my house who uses the computers, nor is Linux development the only thing I use my laptop for ... Aug 03 12:22:34 Are the shipped microsds partitioned? Do they have any content? Aug 03 12:22:45 rwhitby, so get a ubuntu livecd and you should be fine Aug 03 12:22:51 simple question: why does everyone compare openmoko to iphone? as I can see they have nothing to do with/agains each other. Aug 03 12:22:52 they have a single vfat formatted partition, probably straight from sandisk Aug 03 12:22:53 Fair enough Aug 03 12:22:55 daxxar, mine was partitioned Aug 03 12:22:55 daxxar, they aren't and they don't Aug 03 12:23:09 or yes, vfat is on it, but this is vom sandisk, I guess Aug 03 12:23:13 (other than with/against any other phone) Aug 03 12:23:22 thomasg_: you assume I don't *want* to use my router to reflash the neo ;-) Aug 03 12:23:26 well, the first thing I did was deleting the vfat partition and creating an ext2 volume :) Aug 03 12:23:29 LionKMP, maybe because there were some persons who hoped that ophone would be decent ? ;) Aug 03 12:23:43 Okay, great. :-) Aug 03 12:23:44 Oh also, what is the dead pixel policy with the Neo1973's? I'm thinking about getting one when I get back from my holiday to China... But it's a lot of money on my wage. :-\ Aug 03 12:23:47 ah, its vfat, never really checked Aug 03 12:23:56 * rwhitby wonders why everyone assumes that people who use Linux don't use windows, and vice versa ... Aug 03 12:23:57 I purchased a bigger microSD, then I can just pop that in and have no issues. Aug 03 12:24:03 Richlv: if not decent then even less reasons to compare :) Aug 03 12:24:04 rwhitby, I assume you are insane :P Aug 03 12:24:10 i cant say ive ever seen a dead pixel on a cellphone before Aug 03 12:24:22 Psi_, the same for me Aug 03 12:24:26 but the neo is the first :( Aug 03 12:24:31 Psi_: yes, but traditionally cell phone screens have been crappy and low quality and not too hard to make. Aug 03 12:24:31 Return it! Aug 03 12:24:32 I use both too, but primarily linux. Windows lives well enough in a VM for me Aug 03 12:24:47 I'll privmsg you the return address. Aug 03 12:24:52 ^_^ Aug 03 12:24:54 thomasg_: you've seen a dead pixel on the neo? Aug 03 12:24:58 yeah Aug 03 12:24:59 thomasg_: MokoSlug (NSLU2 running custom firmware to act as a bluetooth to wifi access point for Neo's) is a perfect device for reflashing ... Aug 03 12:24:59 daxxar, yeah, you really don't need to have anything on the microsd to boot Aug 03 12:25:00 on mine Aug 03 12:25:14 SpeedEvil, but I do not want to be a few weeks without a neo :( Aug 03 12:25:16 Oh damn, heh. That'd be gutting. Aug 03 12:25:32 Can you actually see the pixel? :) Aug 03 12:25:35 In normal use Aug 03 12:25:44 erm, depends Aug 03 12:25:49 I can see it on black backgroudns Aug 03 12:25:54 in "real" normal use, I can't Aug 03 12:25:54 is it a bright pixel or dead pixel Aug 03 12:26:04 jgm: to tell you the truth, I can't stand the Linux GUIs. Somewhere someone forgot that a GUI is just a way to make multiple command lines available ... Aug 03 12:26:06 2 dead subpixels, red and blue Aug 03 12:26:08 so it's green Aug 03 12:26:53 rwhitby, "the Linux GUIs" is a *cough* somewhat varied group of thingies, and no, not all of them have Aug 03 12:26:54 SpeedEvil, I also have a dead pixel on my high-quality flatscreen, I can live with it Aug 03 12:26:55 rwhitby, it was done long ago with screen :-) Aug 03 12:27:03 the same for the neo: it isn't nice, but I think I can live with it Aug 03 12:27:12 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Talk:Hear_Me_FIC]] [[Talk:Wiki_Issues]] [[Talk:Listen_Up_Community]] [[Template:Signature]] [[Listen_Up_Community]] [[P1_Owners]] [[Main_Page]] [[Hear_Me_FIC]] [[MacOS_X]] [[Wiki_Issues]] [[640x480]] [[Application_Development_Crash_Course]] and other changes Aug 03 12:27:24 Anyone an idea what 'chgcur' is on teh neo? Aug 03 12:27:31 * SpeedEvil utsls. Aug 03 12:27:37 I myself would be gutted having dead pixel, but also because a Neo1973 would be an expensive purchase for me. Aug 03 12:27:51 SpeedEvil, sounds like change current, maybe to set the usb power mode? but thats only a assumption Aug 03 12:28:07 Dmitry_Platonov: only one problem with screen - the default Ctrl-A binding is start-of-line in Emacs, so my muscle memory kills me if I use screen. Aug 03 12:28:26 * mjr hasn't noticed a dead pixel, but hasn't done a thorough search with all sorts of backgrounds Aug 03 12:28:32 so I just use emacs with multiple shell buffers on the router. Aug 03 12:28:53 i discovered a blue pixel on my dell 24" last week, but at 1920x1200 the pixels are so damn small and because its blue and not stuck fully on its damn hard to find Aug 03 12:28:57 I'm sure, that my dead pixel wasn't dead at the beginning - it died after 15 minutes running Aug 03 12:29:03 so hence, doesnt bother me Aug 03 12:29:43 Hmm. Aug 03 12:29:47 well, however, it doesn't really matter, it still works and - I have it :) Aug 03 12:29:48 ... I found my 1st dead pixel in my dSLR a few weeks back (it's stuck on RED), thankfully it's near the side of the frame Aug 03 12:29:55 A) My neo violates the second laws of thermodynamics. Aug 03 12:30:06 B) the scaling on the chgcur is incorrect. Aug 03 12:30:19 Well thanks guys! Aug 03 12:30:21 * SpeedEvil suspects a Aug 03 12:30:25 whats the second laws of thermodynamics? Aug 03 12:30:26 err. Aug 03 12:30:27 b. Aug 03 12:30:41 Anyone who can run dfu-util on a desktop linux machine, and check the Transfer Size that it prints when downloading to the device? Aug 03 12:30:51 'energy cannot be created or destroyed' Aug 03 12:31:00 The battery charging power is >> the input power Aug 03 12:31:25 really the power, not the current? :) Aug 03 12:31:26 you can get a usb-charger for the standard plug for 10 bucks Aug 03 12:31:34 it would be really good if this was included in package for 02 Aug 03 12:31:39 power = voltage * current Aug 03 12:31:41 Isn't that the first law of thermodynamics, SpeedEvil? Aug 03 12:31:42 Richlv, indeed Aug 03 12:31:45 i can imagine people screaming about lack of one. like i was ;) Aug 03 12:31:46 Meh. Aug 03 12:31:46 SpeedEvil, I know that :) Aug 03 12:31:53 that's why I asked Aug 03 12:32:06 Hmm. /sys/devices/platform/s3c2410-i2c/i2c-0/0-0008$ cat /sys/devices/platform/s3c2410-i2c/i2c-0/0-0008/battemp seems way out. Aug 03 12:32:10 reading 9c. Aug 03 12:32:17 Must be 20C or so. Aug 03 12:32:20 i believe second law was about increasing entropy, wasn't it ? Aug 03 12:32:33 onion had an article about christians protesting against second law ;> Aug 03 12:32:34 Probably, yes. Aug 03 12:32:53 The three laws of thermodynamic (abridged): 1) we cannot win, 2) we are bound to lose, 3) we cannot get out of the game Aug 03 12:33:10 thomasg_, is there point suggesting inclusion of such adapter somewhere, or is it obvious enough and will be included anyway ? Aug 03 12:33:40 Richlv, don't know, maybe you should write to the mailinglist Aug 03 12:33:41 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/SH1#Why_is_there_no_charger_included Aug 03 12:33:44 ah, ok Aug 03 12:33:47 oh, something to keep an eye on. Today my neo crashed while in the middle of a call. i held the power button in to force a power off, it switched off, but i noticed that the GSM was still running (could hear the gsm beeps on the headset) Aug 03 12:34:25 as I have a dozend usb-cables, a car charger, a normal charger and so on, it doesn't really matter for me again :) Aug 03 12:34:26 jgm, well, that's about 01, i guess Aug 03 12:34:38 if 02 is supposed for mass market... Aug 03 12:34:38 Psi_: that's the secret CIA trojan keeping your GSM running and listening to your microphone even when the phone is off. Aug 03 12:34:46 hehe yeah Aug 03 12:35:05 missing charger might not be as bad as iphone battery, but what a mess will be screamed in slashdot and other places :) Aug 03 12:35:08 Someone in the CIA must have got their P1 device and sent the virus out ... Aug 03 12:35:39 Yeah but the point is that there were saying that the reason there isn't one with P1 is that they haven't sourced one yet, which means that they are looking to (but I suspect they figured that we wouldn't be impressed if they held back shipment pending the chargers) Aug 03 12:35:52 Psi_, I can explain you why: you held the power button only 5 secs, so the neo turns the screen off, but it isn't really powered off. holding 9 seconds should work Aug 03 12:35:58 jgm, sure, that's understandable for 01 Aug 03 12:36:36 thomasg_, ok, thanks Aug 03 12:37:00 that could definitely have been what happened Aug 03 12:37:42 it's a bit confusing at moment Aug 03 12:37:48 Where is the SD device - I can't find it in the wiki Aug 03 12:37:53 just that it would be a pity if standalone charger was forgotten :) Aug 03 12:37:56 even if you use "power down" from the openmoko gui, it doesn't really power off Aug 03 12:38:14 Richlv, they will have to have one for the mass market phone Aug 03 12:38:14 The GSM device is connected directly to the battery. Aug 03 12:38:25 not everybody has a PC Aug 03 12:38:27 It has to be told to switch off. Aug 03 12:38:28 SpeedEvil, it's /dev/mmcblk0 Aug 03 12:38:31 iirc Aug 03 12:38:39 SpeedEvil, interesting Aug 03 12:38:46 Psi_, yeah, that's what i was hinting about :) Aug 03 12:38:51 Unable to read /dev/mmcblk0 Aug 03 12:38:53 hmm Aug 03 12:39:06 that is not spelt right Aug 03 12:39:09 sd card is in the device? :P Aug 03 12:39:09 Is s3cmci the driver? Aug 03 12:39:13 yes. Aug 03 12:39:33 hm, not sure, but your kernel version needs to fit to the rootfs, because modules are used Aug 03 12:39:51 What is the module needed? Aug 03 12:40:18 SpeedEvil, is /dev/mmcblk0 what you actually typed, because it looks 1 letter short Aug 03 12:40:46 s3cmci should be correct Aug 03 12:41:12 I copied/pasted. Aug 03 12:41:26 mmcblk0 is correct for me Aug 03 12:41:32 cat mmcblk0 Aug 03 12:41:33 cat: Read Error: Input/output error Aug 03 12:41:48 i was sure mine was something like mmcblkb0 Aug 03 12:41:48 Hmm. Aug 03 12:42:07 I can't moutn it, but cat works for me Aug 03 12:42:23 I've had I/O errors on the block device on heavy writing, but not reading so far (reported) Aug 03 12:42:36 Psi_, I'm connected to the neo, and its' definately mmcblk0 for me :) Aug 03 12:42:45 weird Aug 03 12:43:55 <3>mmcblk0: error 1 transferring data Aug 03 12:44:12 I wonder if I bent my wookie. Aug 03 12:44:37 Err - flimsy bit of cheese that the microSD is held in with. Aug 03 12:44:43 I wonder if I need to format it. Aug 03 12:45:08 * hhf423 thinks one can never have enough USB chargers... Aug 03 12:45:45 i don't have even a single one =) Aug 03 12:45:47 I have a USB charger that doesn't fit the local sockets here... Should get an adapter. Does accept the voltage. Aug 03 12:46:05 SpeedEvil: if the card is okay it should mount on /media/card Aug 03 12:46:14 The one that I received was already formatted Aug 03 12:46:18 I've just got /media/ram Aug 03 12:46:23 Sigh. Aug 03 12:46:56 heh - I just realised why my dfu-utils downloads are so slow on the NSLU2 and router - they are both big-endian devices, and the transfer-size in the usb descriptor is little-endian, meaning that I'm transferring 16 bytes per USB transaction instead of 0x1000 bytes! Aug 03 12:47:12 my sd device is /dev/mmcblk0p1 just checked Aug 03 12:47:22 I brought one USB charger for my ipod, then reused it to power a USB HDD on my router, got one more USB charger for my alarm clock and digital pen and somehow sometimes I am one short Aug 03 12:48:02 all you need now is a usb charger for your wireless usb charger :P Aug 03 12:48:49 I think my active USB hub is rubbish as it does not charge attached devices while the computer is off Aug 03 12:49:03 then, I do not know if it is supposed to Aug 03 12:50:09 * rwhitby now downloads 256 times faster ... Aug 03 12:51:45 hhf423: enable wakeup on USB on your motherboard and your computer keeps usb ports live when off Aug 03 12:52:30 XorA: that's a pain, because then if you have an optical usb mouse it ends up always being on Aug 03 12:53:34 XorA: ah, thats an idea, will look into this Aug 03 12:54:09 BryceLeo: fair, but what does a optical mouse draw... I think this is not much Aug 03 12:54:43 oooh, flame ware incoming on UK import VAT/duty vs Neo Aug 03 12:54:51 on community mailing list Aug 03 12:55:53 wow, I don't believe that it's possible in DE/EU :p http://www.heise.de/english/newsticker/news/93759 Aug 03 12:56:38 I always thought, that money rule this world... Aug 03 12:57:53 openmoko: 03njp * r2620 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-dialer2/ (ChangeLog src/moko-contacts.c src/moko-dialer.c): Aug 03 12:57:53 openmoko: 2007-08-03 Neil J. Patel Aug 03 12:57:53 openmoko: * src/moko-contacts.c: (moko_contacts_lookup): Aug 03 12:57:53 openmoko: Check entry is valid before performing operations on it. Aug 03 12:57:55 openmoko: * src/moko-dialer.c: (on_incoming_clip), (moko_dialer_dispose): Aug 03 12:57:57 openmoko: Make sure to write to the journal on dispose. Aug 03 13:00:35 * XorA paid zero import duty for neo, but had to pay VAT on arrival in the UK Aug 03 13:00:40 My wookie had bent. Aug 03 13:00:49 The MMC card fell out. Aug 03 13:01:39 a whole massive, 20 GBP Aug 03 13:01:58 XorA: you lucky bastard :) Aug 03 13:02:01 how did you manage that? Aug 03 13:02:44 ewon: only VAT on postage costs Aug 03 13:02:47 XorA, thats the standard way in EU Aug 03 13:02:53 ewon: as it was a developer board Aug 03 13:02:57 ah, ok Aug 03 13:03:02 that isn't standard Aug 03 13:03:09 XorA: oh, it was a dev preview, ok :) Aug 03 13:03:11 we paid VAT on (device+shipping) Aug 03 13:03:31 thomasg_: yes, hence why the guy on the mailing list paid slightly more Aug 03 13:03:32 VAT != import duty... Aug 03 13:03:47 so it is freskog Aug 03 13:04:46 * XorA thinks people should check their own import rules before ordering Aug 03 13:05:15 and if he really is running a company as he claims, he can claim that VAT back Aug 03 13:05:25 well, could Aug 03 13:05:42 instead he just chose to return it without further thought Aug 03 13:05:47 silly person Aug 03 13:05:52 * XorA thinks he is lieing Aug 03 13:06:14 hi Aug 03 13:06:22 Think the problem was that it was a snap decision. The guy is at the door with a parcel and a request for money and he either says 'yes' and pays or 'no' and back it goes Aug 03 13:07:00 it was delivered UPS, so he gets to say, cant pay you now, come back tomorrow Aug 03 13:07:07 hi squalyl, hi woglinde Aug 03 13:07:17 hi Aug 03 13:07:21 hi guillaum Aug 03 13:07:24 hi xora Aug 03 13:07:29 hey woglinde Aug 03 13:08:01 yes, it sounds like he had a bad day anyway and then made a snap decision Aug 03 13:08:06 woglinde, I think I found the problem in the Qt backend Aug 03 13:08:15 and now he has no Neo and needs to pay the shipping Aug 03 13:08:17 yes, and then blames others for it, which is the ass part Aug 03 13:08:18 guillaum cool Aug 03 13:08:24 maybee I can test it Aug 03 13:08:55 * * OM Bug 680 has been created by  Aug 03 13:08:56 * * "nand lock status": Start address always zero Aug 03 13:08:57 * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=680 Aug 03 13:09:03 well, maybe there should be a more explicit statement in the shop saying "I understand that I have to pay VAT and import duty depending on where I live" Aug 03 13:09:34 say, did anyone try to attach a USB ethernet card to the Neo? Aug 03 13:09:57 "And I also won't blame OpenMoko or FIC if I try to eat the phone and suffocate" Aug 03 13:10:01 (with an active hub in between of course as the Neo is passive) Aug 03 13:10:02 woglinde, yeah it would be great. it's in SVN trunk (QTCanvas class and native part was changed) Aug 03 13:10:18 rwhitby: you still around? Aug 03 13:10:33 woglinde, and I added the pulseaudio backend too Aug 03 13:10:51 mjr: what?! if I can not eat the phone I'll have to return it!!1! thats outrageous, one should always be able to eat ones phone!1!! Aug 03 13:10:57 guillaum ah Aug 03 13:11:12 I would suggest if you have problems ask xora Aug 03 13:11:22 he is from wolfson *g* Aug 03 13:11:32 BryceLeo: yep Aug 03 13:11:50 rwhitby: have you been looking at the 2007.2 release? Aug 03 13:12:00 BryceLeo: nope Aug 03 13:12:10 rwhitby: it's one heck of a big change Aug 03 13:12:14 yep Aug 03 13:12:37 BryceLeo: Nothing he can do to push it, there'll be an announcement soon - and then the switch will be officially made Aug 03 13:12:53 abraxa_: yep Aug 03 13:13:23 hm bt 2.1 +edr Aug 03 13:13:26 well i realize that Aug 03 13:14:22 just making comentary seeing if there were any strong thoughts out there Aug 03 13:15:30 I'm waiting for it to become a bit more official, seems somewhat premature at current Aug 03 13:16:18 i'll give you that, but it is nice now that we're not working out of an overlay and fit better with OE Aug 03 13:16:57 Are the various kernel twiddles documented anywhere on the wiki - other than the source? Aug 03 13:17:04 Yeah it *should* give everyone easier lives, I guess we'll see Aug 03 13:17:08 Nope, get documenting :) Aug 03 13:17:47 will OM-2007.2 be integrated into OE tree? Aug 03 13:17:48 * SpeedEvil stabs jgm with the stylus. Aug 03 13:18:07 dmitry - already is :) Aug 03 13:19:08 hm Aug 03 13:19:13 -> http://www.sand-labs.org/owb Aug 03 13:20:11 hm. so, if I'll checkout fresh OE, set DISTRO=openmoko and MACHINE = "fic-gta01", it will just build? Aug 03 13:20:31 Dmitry_Platonov: with bitbake 1.8.5 or later, yes. Aug 03 13:20:46 Dmitry_Platonov: gsm will probably fail building Aug 03 13:20:52 dimtry yes it should Aug 03 13:21:12 oddly the front page dosen't say what OWB actually *is* Aug 03 13:21:29 Dmitry_Platonov: the quick work around is to just go into the bb file and change all patch= to 0 Aug 03 13:21:32 happycube webkit based browser Aug 03 13:21:44 ahhh ok, don't we have webkit gdk though? Aug 03 13:21:46 oooooh Aug 03 13:21:58 I'm currently trying to build poky for this device of mine - but it's going to be a while Aug 03 13:22:27 a direct SDL port - innnteresting Aug 03 13:25:10 be back later Aug 03 13:39:13 openmoko: 03thomas * r2621 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/artwork/themes/openmoko-standard-2/gtk-2.0/gtkrc: * Disable icons in menus and buttons Aug 03 13:40:52 (script) openmoko-community: Sean Moss-Pultz Re: Import Duty - I have refused my delivery. Aug 03 13:41:06 Err - what? Aug 03 13:41:25 lol Aug 03 13:41:29 * SpeedEvil gets out his stabbing hammer. Aug 03 13:43:10 lol Aug 03 13:43:20 he didnt know about vat Aug 03 13:44:46 lol Aug 03 13:45:03 reading the thread it seems he is smuggler Aug 03 13:46:16 he mickeyl Aug 03 13:46:28 hi mickeyl Aug 03 13:47:00 /whois mickeyl Aug 03 13:47:02 morning Aug 03 13:47:26 Hi mickeyl! Aug 03 13:47:33 Oh, and hi TRIsoft Aug 03 13:47:40 hi elrond Aug 03 13:47:48 Hi woglinde Aug 03 13:47:51 gulliaum1 yes you fixes seems right Aug 03 13:47:52 hi Elrond ;-) Aug 03 13:48:04 morning TRIsoft Aug 03 13:48:12 blubub: just a random guy lurking around Aug 03 13:48:18 ~emulate mickeyl Aug 03 13:48:37 hmm apt ? Aug 03 13:48:50 apt: emulate kergoth Aug 03 13:48:50 Hmm... I know I was supposed to be doing something. I wonder what it was. Aug 03 13:48:54 mickeyl: apt is already having a relaxing weekend Aug 03 13:49:07 looks like it Aug 03 13:49:55 hm, Vegar Aug 03 13:50:14 Vegar: The total cost: 2 226,70 for the device & shipment, 612,00 for VAT. Aug 03 13:52:45 mickeyl: you got a sec? Aug 03 13:53:02 sure Aug 03 13:53:05 what's up? Aug 03 13:53:56 do openembedded and openmoko share a repository - ie, should i be mailing them the .bb files I have for the openembedded side of the house Aug 03 13:54:14 I'm using mokomakefile and I just build 6 or 7 recipies for the openembedded side of the house Aug 03 13:54:35 I ported Gtk2 perl bindings to oe last night Aug 03 13:55:03 all that is left to do is make the manifest list for the .ipk and its done Aug 03 13:55:30 has anyone tried dasher yet? there seems to be an oe package for it Aug 03 13:56:09 noiddd bugs.openembedded.org and attach your patches Aug 03 13:56:27 roger that. Aug 03 13:57:05 noiddd: yes, oe is our upstream and we are closer now again. So just use the upstream and we will use it. :) Aug 03 13:57:27 if you dont know how to write a .bb hm leaf it to us or read http://www.openembedded.org/wiki/bbfile Aug 03 13:57:40 leave Aug 03 13:57:42 damnit Aug 03 13:58:44 woglinde: I've already written the .bb's and patches required Aug 03 13:58:59 I'm still getting used to some of the idiosyncracies of bitbake. Aug 03 13:59:11 (I've not committed anything to oe since the buildroot / bitkeeper days Aug 03 13:59:20 trying to recify that Aug 03 13:59:37 * jgm thinks there are too many build systems out there today, and don't get me started on SCM systems Aug 03 13:59:51 jgm yes they are Aug 03 14:00:12 but personal I find oe has very talented people and good vision Aug 03 14:00:32 noiddd: the oe overlay is pretty much dead. OpenMoko 2007.2 will be based on org.openembedded.dev and Angstrom. We will have to launch a branch when it comes to a release, however even that will happen in org.openembedded.* namespace. Aug 03 14:01:02 jgm - hehe, yeah. :-) Aug 03 14:01:03 So, as long as I pass it upstream it will end up in openmoko 2007.2? Aug 03 14:01:15 I'm guessing I don't need to do anything specific for angstrom ? Aug 03 14:01:30 noiddd: right Aug 03 14:01:44 angstrom is just a different build image right? it doesn't change bitbake or anything like that. Just a different .dd Aug 03 14:01:47 err, .bb Aug 03 14:01:54 noidd right Aug 03 14:01:56 hi hrw Aug 03 14:01:57 awesome. Aug 03 14:02:00 re Aug 03 14:02:00 just set DISTRO=openmoko and we are doing the rest Aug 03 14:02:10 noidd just distro Aug 03 14:02:24 which preselects glibc an other stuff Aug 03 14:02:40 on based of this you build your image gpe opie ,... Aug 03 14:02:47 shiny Aug 03 14:03:17 Any idea how long until this settles down to something usable by people who don't know/care too much about the specifics of the distribution (e.g. me)? The acid test for me will be when it all works from mokomakefile... Aug 03 14:03:36 jgm: mokomakefile works for me currently Aug 03 14:03:47 noiddd: out of the box with OM2007.2? Aug 03 14:03:59 I don't know about om2007.2 Aug 03 14:04:10 mickeyl: when should we look at switching MokoMakefile? Aug 03 14:04:16 Sorry, that was the bit I meant. I have a distribution working, but it's based on OM2007 at current Aug 03 14:04:53 openmoko: 03chris * r2622 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-today2/ (8 files in 3 dirs): Launch the appropriate apps when clicking the summaries on the home page Aug 03 14:05:59 jgm: I don't think anyone is decently building 2007.2 at the moment (except devs) Aug 03 14:06:36 hadake arent we all devs? Aug 03 14:07:26 except build environment devs Aug 03 14:07:28 ;-) Aug 03 14:11:57 rwhitby: lets do that when the official announcement is due. Aug 03 14:12:10 rwhitby: which should arrive within the next 10 days if all goes well Aug 03 14:12:51 mickeyl: ok, let's coordinate on that then. Aug 03 14:13:00 yep, thanks Aug 03 14:13:14 10 days?! I'm gonna be gnawing on my neo1973 in 48 hours if I don't manage to run something else than the official images on it Aug 03 14:13:32 pffff Aug 03 14:13:40 openmoko: 03zecke * r2623 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-feedreader2/ (10 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed) Aug 03 14:13:40 openmoko: 2007-08-03 Holger Hans Peter Freyther Aug 03 14:13:40 openmoko: Start creating the feedreader2, as with every second version Aug 03 14:13:40 openmoko: there might be some over-engineering but as I'm aware of this Aug 03 14:13:40 openmoko: phenomena I try to avoid the bad things. Aug 03 14:13:44 openmoko: Start with creating a Configuration model and the actual FeedData Aug 03 14:13:46 openmoko: model. The implementation will be copied and pasted from main.c Aug 03 14:14:15 this poky build is taking forever due to slow mirrors for the sources :( Aug 03 14:14:23 mickeyl: will om2007.2 have a new standard set of widgets or will it still use gtk? I want to write some GUI stuff but not if I'm going to have to burn it all again in 2 weeks' time Aug 03 14:14:43 qt7/opengl Aug 03 14:15:16 Where can I find the .po files so I can help you translate apps? Aug 03 14:15:16 Commands: counter (see estimated time until P1), counter_msg (set message for counter), faq (gives this link: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ ) Aug 03 14:15:33 mickeyl: BTW, did I ever report the results of my drop test to you guys> Aug 03 14:15:40 Anyone know anything more about 3g sim cards? Aug 03 14:16:02 rwhitby: oops, no. what did you do? Aug 03 14:16:05 calamous1 for the neo or in general? Aug 03 14:16:14 woglinde: For the new Aug 03 14:16:16 neo* Aug 03 14:16:37 mickeyl: I had the neo in my jacket pocket, and pulled my jacket out of the car when dropping my son at school. Aug 03 14:16:40 Anyone who knows where I can find the .po or .pot files? Aug 03 14:17:00 rwhitby: urghs. how far did it fell? Aug 03 14:17:06 Spydon for what? Aug 03 14:17:17 the neo (bv4) flew from about chest height for about 1.5m away from me, onto the road. Aug 03 14:17:19 for anything :P Aug 03 14:17:27 jgm: still Gtk, however we' Aug 03 14:17:32 not all soft has .po or .pot files Aug 03 14:17:32 That's why the lanyard is included :) Aug 03 14:17:37 re going to introduce different toolkits to complement the platform at a later point. Aug 03 14:17:55 I want to help and translate something :P Aug 03 14:18:14 spydon its to early for that Aug 03 14:18:24 Spydon: I would assume the translations should be done with each application maintainer Aug 03 14:18:25 okay Aug 03 14:18:41 mickeyl: great thanks Aug 03 14:18:57 mickeyl: the plastic casing came apart a bit around the aux button and bluetooth antenna (I expect it was the BT antenna's weight which did that), but apart from that and a couple of scratches on the plastic it all seems to work still. Aug 03 14:19:00 where can I find the maintainers then? :P Aug 03 14:19:03 * jgm hopes to see a toolkit based on clutter, that would be nice Aug 03 14:19:13 rwhitby: d'oh. Aug 03 14:19:25 Spydon: check the source code READMEs, AUTHORs etc Aug 03 14:19:47 Are there more toolkits than SCM systems out there? ;o) Aug 03 14:19:47 Where do I get the source code then :P hehe Aug 03 14:19:51 mickeyl: BTW, just used the USB port on my router to reflash the neo :-) Aug 03 14:20:00 rwhitby: heh, really? that's slick Aug 03 14:20:22 elrond yes Aug 03 14:20:28 Spydon: I'll work through an example with you. Aug 03 14:20:34 Pick an application Aug 03 14:20:49 dfu-util is in optware, so it's available for nslu2, any openwrt routers with usb, maxtor shared storage drive, synology ds101, etc. Aug 03 14:20:53 (and which languages are you thinking of translating?) Aug 03 14:21:03 to swedish Aug 03 14:21:15 What do I need to restart if the top-panel-bar has crashed? Aug 03 14:21:21 and I have no idea which apps that are out there :P Aug 03 14:21:30 mickeyl: next I'm going to package openocd and devirginator, so I can connect the debug board to the router. Aug 03 14:21:34 * mickeyl doesn't make a secret which toolkits he favours... but that doesn't mean I have the sole say about what ends in the platform Aug 03 14:21:34 SpeedEvil: when did you get your neo? Aug 03 14:21:43 rwhitby: cool! Aug 03 14:21:43 say, did anyone try to attach a USB ethernet card to the Neo? (with an active hub in between of course as the Neo is passive) Aug 03 14:21:43 calamous1_: earlier today. Aug 03 14:21:50 SpeedEvil: Grats Aug 03 14:21:50 SpeedEvil: matchbox-panel-2. Take a look at /etc/matchbox/session Aug 03 14:22:01 thanks Aug 03 14:22:36 SpeedEvil: I keep reading news about BBC and their iPlayer (for Win). are you upset by that? Aug 03 14:22:42 Yes. Aug 03 14:22:46 Ah, Tack Aug 03 14:22:52 Elrond: the difference between toolkits and SCMs is that toolkits look nice, whereas SCMs are much of a muchness Aug 03 14:23:20 BBC is government sponcered so they should release open stuff Aug 03 14:23:28 mickeyl: So when Harald said that the target customer for OpenMoko is someone who puts OpenWrt on their router - now they can use that router with OpenWrt to reflash the Neo :-) Aug 03 14:23:40 rwhiteby *g* Aug 03 14:24:18 rwhitby: as long that router has usb Aug 03 14:24:23 the BBC is very Linux and Perl centric - the internal developers are very much against the windows only iplayer thing Aug 03 14:24:38 rwhitby: hehe, right. please blog about that, I'm sure a lot of people are interested in that! Aug 03 14:24:41 noiddd, Where do I get the sourcecode? Aug 03 14:24:45 hrw: true, but every self-respecting router these days does :-) Aug 03 14:24:59 noiddd: then why would they release only for win? Aug 03 14:25:00 rwhitby: my wrt54gs is not respecting then Aug 03 14:25:10 hrw: nope Aug 03 14:25:23 calamous1_: as always, there is a difference between management and the people who do the real work :-) Aug 03 14:25:24 I love my WRTsl54gs. its got a use port. Use + Linux = Endless possibilities Aug 03 14:25:37 noiddd: revolution... Aug 03 14:25:50 calamous1_: is it running openwrt? Aug 03 14:26:00 rwhitby: of course :) Aug 03 14:26:09 I got that model cause it had the most ram/rom Aug 03 14:26:15 and USB Aug 03 14:26:42 I got a USB hub in there, with a flash drive for storage (the main part is full), a printer, and a bluetooth stick so its my PAN ap too Aug 03 14:26:52 calamous1_: when I fix this endian bug in dfu-util, I'll push the package to the openwrt unstable feed. Aug 03 14:27:10 cool Aug 03 14:27:12 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[User_talk:Samon007]] [[Neo1973:GTA01:Kernel]] [[Window_Manager_Startup]] [[Talk:Hear_Me_FIC]] [[MacOS_X]] [[Talk:MacOS_X]] [[P1_Owners]] [[User:SpeedEvil]] [[Supported_Hardware]] [[Unresolved_Hardware_Questions]] [[OpenMoko_Local_Groups:_Frankfurt_Main]] and other changes Aug 03 14:27:20 oh, hang on - wrt is mipsel, so it will work properly (little endian) Aug 03 14:27:28 rwhitby: how can there be an endian bug. dont people use cross-platform libs? Aug 03 14:27:51 calamous1_: the transfer size word in the dfu descriptor is not endian neutral Aug 03 14:28:15 you can work around it by overriding the transfer size on the command line. Aug 03 14:28:27 (if you don't, your downloads just go 256 times slower) Aug 03 14:28:41 rwhitby: things like htons or ntohs have been around for years for network programming Aug 03 14:28:48 percicly to pervent endian bugs Aug 03 14:28:51 yep Aug 03 14:29:09 Are you using similar macros to fix the endian bug? Aug 03 14:29:27 calamous1_: there was a FIXME right next to, so the person who wrote it was aware but just didn't have the time probably. Aug 03 14:30:08 rwhitby: ahh. I understand. well thank you for doing it man Aug 03 14:30:41 what's the "host to opposite of network byte order" equivalent to htons? Aug 03 14:31:39 ntohs? Aug 03 14:31:40 to get back form htons its ntohs Aug 03 14:32:17 I need "host to little endian" Aug 03 14:32:24 and "little endian to host" Aug 03 14:32:32 (since network byte order is big endian) Aug 03 14:33:22 on a big endian host, those macros will do nothing. I need something that does nothing on a little endian host. Aug 03 14:33:27 Hmm, not sure you could write a macro for that Aug 03 14:34:01 Sure you could. Aug 03 14:34:02 I always forget is x86 big or little? Aug 03 14:34:06 Little. Aug 03 14:34:15 I can obviously do a ntohs and then always swap, but that would be wasteful. Aug 03 14:34:18 swab(3)? Aug 03 14:34:39 arm in little devices is big endian, and x86 in big machines is little endian it's the opposite :) Aug 03 14:34:46 (ok arm can be both) Aug 03 14:34:59 Sparc is big right? Aug 03 14:35:10 Yes. Aug 03 14:35:13 taneli: swab is unconditional Aug 03 14:35:44 m68k is big too Aug 03 14:36:04 only little are x86 and mips (I think) Aug 03 14:36:46 Big endian is the natrual order left to right (inc addrs to right) Aug 03 14:37:03 And armel Aug 03 14:37:17 And don't forget Xinu architectures like Cray. Aug 03 14:37:20 Intel has to be backwards. Aug 03 14:37:28 er.. nuxi Aug 03 14:37:56 nslu2-linux, for instance, support both big-endian and little-endian firmware for the NSLU2. Aug 03 14:38:02 Ive never done any asm floating point stuff. but on x86 the FPU is a stack and you must do things in reverse polish notation right? Aug 03 14:38:14 2 2 + rox Aug 03 14:38:26 is it a bitch to program for that Aug 03 14:38:36 someone needs to port the HP41 emulator from the n800 to openmoko Aug 03 14:38:37 rwhitby: ARM supports both endianess Aug 03 14:38:40 because I just learned that GCC like to make all FPU code sse2/sse3 Aug 03 14:38:52 squalyl: yeah, I know that - I lead the nslu2-linux project. Aug 03 14:38:53 openmoko: 03mickey * r2624 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/ (18 files in 5 dirs): add neod skeleton Aug 03 14:38:59 and the mmx registers are ailiased with the fp regs Aug 03 14:39:15 I wish we could set a date to boot the x86 arch out the window Aug 03 14:39:30 and go with RISC Aug 03 14:39:58 risc rocks (same 1st letter) Aug 03 14:40:02 noiddd, if I want to translate appmanager, how do I do= Aug 03 14:40:03 ?* Aug 03 14:40:09 * rwhitby gets bitten by the disappearing menu bar bug Aug 03 14:40:56 squalyl: an optimizing compiler can make risc code so well. cisc only exists to make the asm progs life easier Aug 03 14:41:03 rwhitby: one of panels broke Aug 03 14:41:17 hrw: yeah, gsm icon Aug 03 14:41:32 Besides intels front ends turn all dumb-ass-cisc instructions into uOps (risc like insturctions) before dispatched to the backend Aug 03 14:42:45 calamous1_: I know ARM code ca be very compact. Once I had some tries with GCC -O, when it uses ony registers code is very compact. That's true. Aug 03 14:43:22 squalyl: definitely Aug 03 14:44:29 I wonder how many opcodes x86 on the latest intel chip has Aug 03 14:44:35 What is the latest intel chip anyway? Aug 03 14:44:48 er... Core something? Aug 03 14:44:50 is it that proc with the deceptive name "core" Aug 03 14:44:58 whats the viiv? Aug 03 14:45:17 only a trademark? Aug 03 14:45:28 ohh Aug 03 14:45:35 why doesn't all apps have .po files? Aug 03 14:45:36 that states you computer may be able to run killer apps smoothly? :D Aug 03 14:45:52 lol Aug 03 14:46:05 I can run counter-strike / wine / linux smoothly Aug 03 14:46:18 but on my amd64 Aug 03 14:46:59 or quake4 directly on linux because John Carmack is great :) Aug 03 14:47:44 squalyl: just wikipediaed viiv and its a bunch of DRM (ewwww) Aug 03 14:47:53 argh Aug 03 14:48:53 Spydon: because some devs don't do the whole i18n thing Aug 03 14:49:06 ok Aug 03 14:49:35 (They should, of course, they just don't) Aug 03 14:50:40 openmoko: 03mickey * r2625 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/fingerscroll/ (example.c moko-finger-scroll.c moko-finger-scroll.h): fingerscroll: back out unintentionally commited stuff Aug 03 15:31:55 hi Aug 03 15:33:33 I have a small problem compiling openmoko (svn checkout today) Aug 03 15:34:14 * k-s[WORK] is away: lunch Aug 03 15:34:36 I basically get a "dyngen: Unsupported ELF class" Aug 03 15:35:06 (when I run make) Aug 03 15:35:30 openmoko: 03rwhitby * r110 10mokomakefile/trunk/Makefile: Added the flash-neo-official and flash-neo-local targets Aug 03 15:36:03 Someone want to test those new targets? Aug 03 15:36:05 leppoc: possibly a 64/32-bit issue? Just guessing, mind Aug 03 15:38:06 rwhitby: I can, atleast in a bit Aug 03 15:38:47 It's a 64 bits yes... I will look in this direction.... Aug 03 15:39:41 Hadaka: I'll be asleep in 5, so just mail the devel list if there is a bug. Aug 03 15:42:29 rwhitby: okay Aug 03 15:46:17 FCC application is up: http://www.phonescoop.com/phones/fcc_query.php?gc=EUN&pc=GTA01BV4 Aug 03 15:48:38 jgm: do you know how can I solve that ? Aug 03 15:49:15 hmmh, users manual in the FCC application - did any of us get one? ;) Aug 03 15:49:22 (except by buying a nuew PC ;) ) Aug 03 15:50:08 leppoc: Nope not offhand. It may be that something is being downloaded as 32-bit but you'd need to look in detail at the error and see which binary/library was causing the problem and track back from there Aug 03 15:50:15 When you find out please add it to the Wiki :) Aug 03 15:50:33 yes sure :) Aug 03 15:51:17 I am at work, but at home I have a 32 bits, so If I endup compiling it at home, I will not find any solution ;) Aug 03 15:51:36 Just got my openmoko, flashing the rootfs now! Aug 03 15:51:40 (I hope I will.....) Aug 03 15:51:51 maximum SAR value of 1.58 when flush with right cheek Aug 03 15:52:10 Hey, question, has there been any progess on the gpsd information? Aug 03 15:52:10 oolonc: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (and also SH1, SH1_FAQ, Neo1973, Developer_preview and Neo1973_Hardware#GTA01Bv4 pages) (Hopefully these links answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) Aug 03 15:54:29 night all Aug 03 15:56:32 kpdf doesn't open "External Photos" pdf :/ Aug 03 15:57:02 oolonc, what was your order number? Aug 03 15:57:20 and others, too Aug 03 15:57:34 Ahhh, 2034 Aug 03 15:57:48 I got the slow shipping, too Aug 03 15:58:14 cool Aug 03 15:58:25 I'm amazingly excited. Aug 03 15:58:38 i still have a while to wait then it seems Aug 03 15:59:29 oh, while i'm at questions... how does it look, is october for general usage realitic target ? Aug 03 16:00:08 Only problem being I got one of the 3g fireball sim cards to start with, and I don't have another one. Aug 03 16:00:50 hey Aug 03 16:05:49 http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/08/02/google_phone/ <--- the mysterious big company interested in openmoko? Aug 03 16:16:10 ckuethe: I doubt google will use OpenMoko - openness doesn't seem to be their concern since that would allow people to bypass the advertisements they seek to make profit with Aug 03 16:18:42 *nod* Aug 03 16:18:47 that was my first thought too Aug 03 16:20:04 they don't seem to try very hard to prevent ad blocking though Aug 03 16:20:29 but i don't find google ads all that annoying... a couple times they've actually been useful Aug 03 16:20:47 thank you ckuethe :) Aug 03 16:20:50 :D Aug 03 16:21:25 meh. it's all just conspiracy theories until someone makes an announcement. Aug 03 16:21:56 concentrate on coding. all else will work through itsself. Aug 03 16:22:44 agreed Aug 03 16:26:53 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[OpenMoko2007.2]] [[User_talk:Glenn]] [[Carriers/ATT]] [[Buying_Interest_List]] [[P1_Owners]] Aug 03 16:28:45 finally got my neos! Aug 03 16:33:06 ok, when running mokomakefile... it takes quite a while yes? Aug 03 16:34:24 at least for 'make openmoko-devel-image' .. anyways; i was wondering if there is anything special i need to do when a build fails; to not have to start over Aug 03 16:36:11 ah. all the people ~. Aug 03 16:36:15 er. Aug 03 16:38:02 all the people that ordered base after rt#500 have been billed Aug 03 16:38:16 but ono one with advanced. Aug 03 16:38:16 rt#2500 even Aug 03 16:38:52 daMaestro: depends why it didn't work Aug 03 16:43:23 counter Aug 03 16:43:23 Got it! (1791;252) Aug 03 16:43:40 ;-) Aug 03 16:44:43 :) Aug 03 16:46:38 Has anyone managed to get alphaone's images to work in qemu? Aug 03 16:46:53 oh, and hi everyone! :) Aug 03 16:47:19 freskog: which images? Aug 03 16:47:25 *sigh, i really really like UPS, they say that i in such a rural area that they cannot be bothered to deliver my neo until monday or later Aug 03 16:47:47 the ones that were linked to from the mailing list (supposedly 2007.2) Aug 03 16:48:17 raynet: where do you live? :) Aug 03 16:48:47 hadaka: http://people.openmoko.org/alphaone/images/OpenMoko-openmoko-devel-image-glibc-.dev-snapshot-20070802-fic-gta01.rootfs.jffs2 Aug 03 16:49:04 cjb: in a rural area, 25km from closest city Aug 03 16:49:10 cool... i built one last night Aug 03 16:49:11 So has anyone here gotten the GPS working? Aug 03 16:49:15 didn't work at all as a phone tho ;) Aug 03 16:49:16 oolonc: yeah Aug 03 16:50:30 How did you do it, were you one of the first batch of dev phones? Aug 03 16:51:07 after next week or so nobody's gillin will work anymore since 2007.2 is eaby Aug 03 16:51:09 *eabi Aug 03 16:51:16 *almost nobody's... you can do an oabi build Aug 03 16:51:46 freskog: thanks, I'll try those Aug 03 16:51:53 hopefully they'll be able to distribute it to us by then Aug 03 16:54:00 ditto Aug 03 16:54:34 Yeah, it's kind of driving me crazy, considering one of the primary reasons I wanted this phone was the GPS. Aug 03 16:54:40 And I'm eager to play. Aug 03 16:55:27 But nobody has still found/release/reverse engineered the driver yet? Aug 03 16:58:47 mjr: Absolutely. Aug 03 17:00:15 freskog: seems to hang at boot in qemu :( Aug 03 17:00:36 Hadaka: I have the same problem Aug 03 17:00:47 That sucks... Aug 03 17:00:59 freskog: I'll be able to test in on real hardware in a minute Aug 03 17:01:07 Tried to build from OE-openmoko head, but that didn't work either.. Aug 03 17:01:14 cool! Aug 03 17:01:35 again two heads Aug 03 17:01:37 ups Aug 03 17:01:59 woglinde: ? Aug 03 17:02:18 *g* mumbling over openembedded myself Aug 03 17:02:26 okay, booting now Aug 03 17:02:52 hangs at the same spot :( Aug 03 17:03:37 Hmm, would be really cool to try this out in the emulator... Aug 03 17:04:08 But right now they're comitting like crazy, so head maybe broken for sometime. Aug 03 17:05:40 jgm, http://dpaste.com/15967/ Aug 03 17:12:03 daMaestro: looks like this: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Talk:MokoMakefile#Fails_on_ncurses_install_in_Fedora_7_with_a_.22tic_-x.22_message Aug 03 17:12:37 Once it's fixed you can just rerun make openmoko-devel-image, it will pick up from where it left off (although it will re-run some downloading and checking) Aug 03 17:14:37 first somebody blames OpenMoko for British VAT, and now somebody starts to redefine Open Source. Truly, OpenMoko has reached the masses. Aug 03 17:16:10 ok, what's the deal with the modules? I'm looking at a freshly flashed system with no modules and the free space is less than the size of the modules Aug 03 17:16:26 hu? Aug 03 17:16:58 mrface: not all of the modules should be on the image - if you are using recent images, the modules you do need should already be on the image Aug 03 17:17:07 mrface: i had the same issue.. i think the idea is that we probably don't need all.. so pick and choose :) Aug 03 17:17:09 ohhh Aug 03 17:17:43 but I used the rootfs image from buildhost made today... and there are 0 modules included. I don't know which ones to copy over Aug 03 17:17:47 jgm, thanks; i'll look for the "proper way to achieve the same result Aug 03 17:18:07 mrface do you need mmc support or audio? Aug 03 17:18:14 mrface than you live without them Aug 03 17:18:32 I would certainly like both Aug 03 17:18:37 mrface: please file a bugreport if there are no modules included Aug 03 17:18:43 hm than try to copy only these Aug 03 17:18:51 can someone just give me the output of "find /lib/modules/`uname -r`/kernel/ Aug 03 17:19:32 LaF0rge: ok Aug 03 17:19:54 i see plenty of kernel modules here Aug 03 17:20:54 LaF0rge: the /lib/modules/`uname -r`/kernel/ directory doesn't exist on mine Aug 03 17:21:34 but one directory up has a few modules.* files Aug 03 17:21:49 mrface yeah thats normal Aug 03 17:21:59 depencies and aliases Aug 03 17:22:11 ahhh ok Aug 03 17:22:40 mrface: try manual 'nand erase root' on the commandline and flash the rootfs again Aug 03 17:23:10 LaF0rge: ok Aug 03 17:23:15 laforge on the uboot cmdline right? Aug 03 17:23:28 yeah Aug 03 17:23:34 that took me a while to figure out Aug 03 17:23:36 this a bit of an odd question - but I've been trying to flash all sorts of weird images as rootfs images - and some of them say cause dfu-util to say: Aug 03 17:23:52 #dfu_download error -110 Aug 03 17:23:52 ] finished! Aug 03 17:23:52 unable to read DFU status Aug 03 17:24:03 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Bootloader#Using_usbtty_from_Linux Aug 03 17:24:17 daMaestro: thank yo Aug 03 17:24:24 daMaestro I could have tell you this if you had asked and I where around Aug 03 17:24:26 ^ how to be able to run: `nand erase clean rootfs` Aug 03 17:24:29 this happens just when it is supposed to finish the download - is there something that needs to be done to the jjfs2 images (padding) to make them suitable for this device? Aug 03 17:24:39 woglinde, thanks. Aug 03 17:24:48 if i can find it myself, i do try ;-) Aug 03 17:25:00 I dont know everything *g* Aug 03 17:26:27 so is there a way to erase the kernel also? Aug 03 17:26:42 `nand erase clean kernel` ? Aug 03 17:31:30 Huh. Just flashed the Alphaone image to the device, and it hung at the same point as it did in qemu... Aug 03 17:31:46 "Freeing init memory: 128k" Aug 03 17:32:00 I think the hanging is due to having the wrong kernel installed - I seem to be getting hangs every time the kernel is different from what it should be Aug 03 17:32:12 daMaestro: just for fun I typed 'nand erase clean' and it returned 'NAND erase: device 0 whole chip' followed by 'Really erase everything ? ' Aug 03 17:32:22 Ah, so I need to flash the alphaone kernel, too, then? Aug 03 17:32:23 I aborted at that point and just erased rootfs Aug 03 17:32:38 who knows, maybe that cleans the kernel as well? Aug 03 17:32:49 LaF0rge, are we allowed to nand erase clean ? Aug 03 17:32:58 LaF0rge, or will that destroy uboot also? Aug 03 17:33:24 oh god that would be bad... I guess I need to be careful when in the u-boot console Aug 03 17:34:28 Whee Alphaone images do boot if you have the right kernel for them! Aug 03 17:34:45 daMaestro: actually I just noticed 'nand erase kernel' is mentioned on the wiki page you sent me Aug 03 17:35:00 hadaka: what's so special about alphaone images? Aug 03 17:35:23 mrface: OpenMoko 2007.2 Aug 03 17:35:57 ... now I can't shut off the Neo... I get event messages to the power button press, that increments every second... effectively canceling the shutdown... Aug 03 17:36:06 Guess I need to yank the battery this time... Aug 03 17:36:29 mrface, it sure seems like nand erase will erase u-boot Aug 03 17:36:30 lol Aug 03 17:36:45 OHHH! so which kernel hadaka? Aug 03 17:36:59 yeah, I almost made a BIG mistake, hehe Aug 03 17:37:00 mrface: the same one that is in the directory with the image Aug 03 17:37:19 but! it seems that it shows only a black screen after X startup (atleast in qemu) Aug 03 17:37:19 ahh, well that's easy enough Aug 03 17:37:22 anyone tried a Poky image? is it more functional than openmoko ? Aug 03 17:37:36 they don't have images available for the neo Aug 03 17:38:00 um... I can't figure out how to leave the u-boot console Aug 03 17:38:15 you should just be able to close it Aug 03 17:38:17 pjz: I tried compiling poky today, but ran out of free space Aug 03 17:38:22 but i think it is ~. Aug 03 17:38:27 Hadaka: ah Aug 03 17:38:58 daMaestro: that worked, thanks Aug 03 17:39:21 i don't need to charge the phone before I flash the images, right? Aug 03 17:39:35 well, you should be sure it's charged. Aug 03 17:39:47 It wouldn't be good if it goes down halfway through. Aug 03 17:39:48 it's only *really* important if you are flashing u-boot Aug 03 17:40:13 cat `find /sys -name "*battvolt*"` Aug 03 17:40:29 4.2V is fully charged - 4V is about 1/2 Aug 03 17:40:36 mbuf: the phone should be charging as fast as it can while flashing Aug 03 17:40:51 Hadaka, ok Aug 03 17:42:30 i'm actually pretty amazed at how long it is taking to build openmoko Aug 03 17:42:40 going on a good 8 hours right now Aug 03 17:43:00 yep, it's huge Aug 03 17:43:14 on a dual core 3.2GHz x86_64 with 2GB of ram Aug 03 17:43:33 did you try PARALLEL_MAKE options? Aug 03 17:43:37 granted i'm building in a virtual machine, but i have hvm support; so it should be running sok Aug 03 17:43:55 squalyl, i've only exported one core to the guest Aug 03 17:44:06 ah, ok Aug 03 17:44:31 root@fic-gta01:/sys/devices/platform/s3c2410-i2c/i2c-0/0-0008$ cat chgcur Aug 03 17:44:31 1733 Aug 03 17:44:34 If possible, a native linux would allow make to run 2 gcc's in parallel Aug 03 17:44:51 wow Aug 03 17:44:58 should we pust the sim card holder back and pull up, or simply pull it up? Aug 03 17:45:39 mbuf: gently slide it back, then it should swivel effortlessly Aug 03 17:46:02 mbuf: after you slide it, you can hold the phone upside down and it will swing open Aug 03 17:46:07 PC says "MxPwr=500mA" though Aug 03 17:46:36 mrface, that was tricky, had to hold it upside down Aug 03 17:47:10 mbuf: hehe, the upside down part is not necessary, it just illustrates that no effort is required at that point Aug 03 17:47:54 :-D http://damaestro.us/photography <-- my moko Aug 03 17:48:20 Is there a standard way of having an automake-based project generate debug symbols during compilation? Aug 03 17:48:32 daMaestro: if I were spanish I wouldn't dare opening that link :P Aug 03 17:48:45 lol Aug 03 17:49:03 anyway, how the HELL can I build u-boot for qemuarm ?! Aug 03 17:50:08 I grabbed the mokomakefile and let it run the whole night to make the toolchain and everything (which I don't want) and it wasn't able to configure u-boot for no 'qemuarm_config' target exists Aug 03 17:50:09 don't you use the gta01 image? Aug 03 17:50:14 argh Aug 03 17:50:30 no, I need to use the upstream qemu Aug 03 17:50:42 dunno then :( Aug 03 17:50:48 grrrrrrrrrrrrrrr Aug 03 17:52:05 anyone? :( Aug 03 17:54:38 where is the dfu-util located? wiki links just seem to go nowhere Aug 03 17:54:53 svn i think Aug 03 17:55:08 ahh ok, in buildhost Aug 03 17:55:09 if you find a prebuilt image set you'll get a copy there built for the arch it was built using Aug 03 17:55:11 yup Aug 03 17:55:23 builds with openmoko-devel-image Aug 03 17:55:31 LaF0rge: cleaning rootfs and reflashing got me the modules back, thanks Aug 03 17:55:51 hrmmmmmmmmm Aug 03 17:55:55 mrface, i've had the same issue Aug 03 17:56:09 mrface, though; now i'm waiting on my own build of the platform Aug 03 17:56:25 so, i think the flashing of the rootfs is very important Aug 03 17:56:42 yes, I will always clean first now Aug 03 17:56:51 i've had a lot of jffs2 errors... and that is where i was led to look to find out how to erase the nand Aug 03 17:56:56 err.. the part of the nand Aug 03 17:56:57 lol Aug 03 17:57:07 mrface, i was able to erase the kenrel Aug 03 17:57:10 kernel* Aug 03 17:57:13 oh, good to know Aug 03 17:58:01 what do you use to check the time for every 30s? Aug 03 17:59:15 mbuf: What do you mean? Aug 03 17:59:38 abraxa_, to press aux button every 30s, what time display is available Aug 03 17:59:57 mbuf: Uh, no idea about that one Aug 03 18:00:33 mbuf - Why do you need to press aux that often? Aug 03 18:00:55 Elrond, while flashing? Aug 03 18:01:12 If your u-boot is new enough (any P1 device), you don't need to. Aug 03 18:01:31 ok Aug 03 18:01:32 brb Aug 03 18:02:11 I flashed rootfs on last week? is there any reason to put the new one on? Aug 03 18:03:10 calamous1_ - You can also just update some .ipk. Aug 03 18:03:53 I couldnt get ipgk to work Aug 03 18:04:03 my internet on the phone works I got all that Aug 03 18:04:15 flashing when a cat just crossed the road has been found to be unlucky to the neo Aug 03 18:04:31 never mind..that was lame Aug 03 18:04:51 Elrond: Could you dccp me the contects of your ipkg.conf and the repository file please Aug 03 18:07:42 running unmodified programs that use right/middle mouse button? maybe use aux for right mouse button.. Aug 03 18:08:56 Can someone tell me the contents of /etc/ipkg/base-feed.conf Aug 03 18:09:04 is there a reason why gsmhandset.state still causes massive feedback? Aug 03 18:09:22 I've made a patch that works fine Aug 03 18:09:26 calamous1_: src/gz base http://downloads.openmoko.org/snapshots/20070301/ipk Aug 03 18:09:42 mrface: the master volume is up too high? Aug 03 18:09:55 freelock: ty Aug 03 18:10:05 calamous1_: not that that works... Aug 03 18:10:31 yes Aug 03 18:11:02 yeah so the prefix is src/gz Aug 03 18:11:03 (404 not found) Aug 03 18:11:39 I can't find a bug for the issue, I guess I'll file one Aug 03 18:11:56 I'm really surprised it's not in bugzilla already Aug 03 18:12:14 mrface: it's more of a configuration setting, than a bug... Aug 03 18:12:23 You can use alsamixer to adjust the volume, and when you're done: Aug 03 18:12:46 alsactl -f /etc/alsa/gsmhandset.state store Aug 03 18:12:49 freelock: I know, I've already done that Aug 03 18:13:19 but the config should come in a working state shouldn't it? Aug 03 18:14:00 Yeah, it just seems to be different every build... Aug 03 18:14:02 Who has ipgk working on their neo? Aug 03 18:15:38 Just looking in my deploy folder, here: build/tmp/deploy/ipk/fic-gta01 Aug 03 18:15:58 I'm thinking if I put that on a web server, and point ipkg to it, it should work... Aug 03 18:16:43 There's not much in there besides kernel modules and sysvinit stuff... Aug 03 18:17:54 * * OM Bug 681 has been created by bradpitcher(AT)gmail.com Aug 03 18:17:55 * * the gsmhandset.state file has the volume turned up too high, causing feedback Aug 03 18:17:56 * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=681 Aug 03 18:20:00 Very odd. Aug 03 18:20:18 Sticking a scope on the battery current reveals something wierd. Aug 03 18:21:07 When on battery - not tried USB - the supply current goes from around 150mA to 100mA for 500us every 10ms Aug 03 18:21:18 calamous1_ - I update ipk by hand. ;-) Aug 03 18:21:54 Elrond: what do you mean. any pgk you want you dl the individule .ipk? Aug 03 18:22:20 calamous1_ - I download some .ipk via wget, then scp it to the neo and do "ipkg install foo.ipk" Aug 03 18:22:35 SpeedEvil - That'a 100Hz, right? Aug 03 18:22:41 ohh. is there a nano.ipk I can't stand using vi (sorry to offend anyone) Aug 03 18:22:46 Elrond: yes. Aug 03 18:23:00 calamous1_ - I can give you vim and joe als .ipk. ,o) Aug 03 18:23:15 SpeedEvil - Sounds like HZ to me... Aug 03 18:23:16 i'll take joe Aug 03 18:23:28 Indeed. Aug 03 18:23:44 The fun question is why the power consumption goes so sharply down. Aug 03 18:25:36 Yeah. Aug 03 18:26:33 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Other_OSes]] [[Manually_using_SMS]] [[P1_Owners]] Aug 03 18:26:47 calamous1_ - Try http://linuxtogo.org/~elrond/tmp/ Aug 03 18:27:36 Elrond: ty very much Aug 03 18:28:57 SpeedEvil: I'd be more worried if it would go up :) Aug 03 18:29:09 Up is easy to explain. Aug 03 18:29:16 Right. Aug 03 18:29:21 Down is hard. Aug 03 18:29:32 timer interrupt firing, cpu doing lots of work. Aug 03 18:29:43 That's the easy explanation for "go up". Aug 03 18:30:15 The trivial explanation I can think of is that it goes into 'idle' mode for 0.5ms or so, then comes out. Aug 03 18:30:39 hmm, so we need to increase interrupts to save battery Aug 03 18:30:47 :) Aug 03 18:30:53 Or more probably. Aug 03 18:31:04 Find out what is waking it up. Aug 03 18:31:12 powertop++ Aug 03 18:37:04 does neo work if you spill coffee on it? just checking Aug 03 18:37:22 haha Aug 03 18:37:48 mbuf: I drop mine in the sink and it completely submerged, but it still works Aug 03 18:37:48 i really, really wanted my damn platform build to be done when i woke up Aug 03 18:38:07 daMaestro: overnight should be sufficient. Aug 03 18:38:13 i need to go get a latte (zZZZzzz|notEnoughSleep) and want to bring my neo Aug 03 18:38:22 hehe, yeah Aug 03 18:38:30 i have problem with noise and really irritating sounds when using the headset Aug 03 18:38:41 mrface, i got about 6 hours of sleep and it is still going Aug 03 18:38:45 mrface, ain't they call it the regression testing Aug 03 18:38:49 mrface, how do i check the battery status on the Neo? Aug 03 18:38:58 use alsamixer to turn down the speaker volume Aug 03 18:39:00 it only goes away when i press the audio connector firmly into the neo and hold it pressed in Aug 03 18:39:07 but, it's approaching running for 8 hours Aug 03 18:39:19 mbuf: someone pasted a command earlier Aug 03 18:39:25 mbuf: but I forgot Aug 03 18:39:37 Hmm. 100mA in standby 'mem' state. Aug 03 18:39:48 daMaestro: ohh, that sucks dude Aug 03 18:40:01 mrface, but, there is a GUI indicator on the right-top corner, what is it? Aug 03 18:40:16 daMaestro: yay, I just found out I can use tab completion on names in irc :) Aug 03 18:40:17 daMaestro: did you start a build from absolutely nothing, then? Aug 03 18:40:47 mbuf: that is the battery indicater. so you can get a rough idea of status looking at that Aug 03 18:40:49 mwester, yes Aug 03 18:40:51 ls Aug 03 18:40:58 mrface, lol Aug 03 18:41:08 mwester, a fresh vm Aug 03 18:41:17 I *meant* to type that "ls" command there! :p Aug 03 18:42:06 mrface, that is almost empty :( Aug 03 18:42:10 daMaestro: it's had to build the entire toolchain, then. It would sure be nice if there was a way to "freeze" the toolchain in OE, so that you could start fresh without rebuilding it. Aug 03 18:42:45 I have a 2.8GHz P4 -- takes longer than overnight for me as well. Aug 03 18:43:49 like compiling X on a 486 :) Aug 03 18:44:19 ~seen cwiiis Aug 03 18:44:27 mickey|dinner: ping Aug 03 18:44:38 cwiiis was last seen on IRC in channel #oe, 32d 4h 55m 38s ago, saying: 'zecke_: You're writing an HTML rendering engine?'. Aug 03 18:44:55 mbuf: cat `find /sys -name "*battvolt*"` Aug 03 18:45:08 I guess 4224 is full? Aug 03 18:45:11 yes Aug 03 18:45:15 pretty much Aug 03 18:45:44 so that is the voltage if you divide by 1000? Aug 03 18:46:18 yes Aug 03 18:46:22 got it Aug 03 18:46:25 or voltage in millivolts Aug 03 18:46:29 Hmm. Aug 03 18:46:37 The neo is quite slow at 50Mhz Aug 03 18:46:41 ahhh, of course Aug 03 18:46:42 heh! Aug 03 18:47:04 Can you really clock it that slowly and have everything work? Aug 03 18:47:14 So far. Aug 03 18:47:23 The screen flickers a little - that's easy to fix though. Aug 03 18:47:28 it's the backlight. Aug 03 18:47:30 I bet that does good things for battery life... Aug 03 18:47:34 it needs the PWM clock adjusted. Aug 03 18:47:41 SpeedEvil: what is the purpose of your test? Aug 03 18:47:42 I'm about to compare, once it's booted. Aug 03 18:47:59 Calculating the CPU battery usage. Aug 03 18:48:06 oh Aug 03 18:49:33 thanks for the help daMaestro /quit going to lunch Aug 03 18:49:36 oops Aug 03 18:58:43 how do i do a fast charge with a self-powered hub? should i boot Neo into u-boot mode and select any option? Aug 03 19:00:41 mbuf - Let it boot fully into linux. The screensaver will disable the backlight. Aug 03 19:01:03 mickey|dinner: could you quickly rubber-stamp a change to moko-finger-scroll? Aug 03 19:02:31 I was about to flash my Neo (again) and I suddenly see uImage-2.6.21-6-moko11-r1... while all the previous are ...moko10... Aug 03 19:03:28 1. I assume it is safe to use ? 2. why the version number switch? Aug 03 19:04:09 Does it have to do with the 2007.2 build? Aug 03 19:05:23 hey Aug 03 19:10:02 Hmm. Ok. Aug 03 19:10:09 At 50MHz, USB doesn't work. Aug 03 19:10:24 I think it should - but I've not investigated why. Aug 03 19:10:30 Most else seems to work. Aug 03 19:11:04 Elrond, the backlight is still on after 5 minutes, how do i know if it is charging? Aug 03 19:11:04 It seems to save the more-or-less-guesstimated 250mW Aug 03 19:11:41 mbuf - Usually there is a batter icon in the top bar. Aug 03 19:11:58 And it has a "plug" into it, when it charges. Aug 03 19:12:06 Elrond, its there on the top-right corner, almost 90% full Aug 03 19:12:27 * ferric wonders if they have run out of Advanced NEO boxes. Aug 03 19:12:27 :( Aug 03 19:12:39 Elrond, i saw it when I connected it to the laptop; i don't see it when I plug it in the self-powered USB hub Aug 03 19:12:53 mbuf: the battery icon doesn't change when (ostensibly) drawing only 100mA Aug 03 19:13:02 mbuf - Something like the battery icon in the top right there: http://www.flickr.com/photos/elrond/532319522/ Aug 03 19:13:48 Elrond, i see a green that is almost full; but, no plug in it Aug 03 19:13:49 bmidgley - But it should be able to get 500mA out of a power hub... that's the point of a powered hub. Aug 03 19:14:02 mbuf - Then it's only charging at 100mA. Aug 03 19:14:13 Elrond, when should i plug it into the powered hub? after it boots to the GUI? Aug 03 19:14:21 Elrond, that's what I thought Aug 03 19:15:16 mbuf: plug it in any time you want Aug 03 19:15:32 i am going to try again; Aug 03 19:16:01 mbuf - It shouldn't matter. Aug 03 19:16:24 Maybe plug in, before powering up. But it really should not matter. Aug 03 19:23:14 the red led light on this usb hub glows only if i connect the upstream port to a host PC; Aug 03 19:23:44 Many do. Aug 03 19:24:00 They don't supply power at all without an active upstream host. Aug 03 19:24:17 and now the phone is connected to the host PC through the powered hub; and i see an indicator Aug 03 19:27:43 quick question on the GUI; I can use any GTK widgets and build it with openmoko or is the gtk that comes in the distribution a stripped version? Aug 03 19:28:32 No, full featured gtk 2.6 Aug 03 19:28:40 2.10 possibly on the road. Aug 03 19:28:44 Elrond, ok, thanks Aug 03 19:28:53 Where do I turn on - under linux - the fast charge mode, for a 'dumb' charger? Aug 03 19:29:13 SpeedEvil - Try "echo fast_cccv >chgmode" Aug 03 19:29:21 k Aug 03 19:29:23 SpeedEvil - chg* are in the same dir as battvolt. Aug 03 19:29:29 Elrond, hey! the backlight is now off! i think now its doing fast charging Aug 03 19:29:33 SpeedEvil - And let me know, if it works. ;) Aug 03 19:29:44 I'm trying to get a nice clean trace in the greenhouse, with it plugged into a dumb charger. Aug 03 19:30:03 Ahh, cute. Aug 03 19:30:47 tst llalaa Aug 03 19:31:05 /s/tst/test Aug 03 19:31:22 /s/tst llalaa/test Aug 03 19:31:41 /s/tst llalaa/test/ Aug 03 19:31:50 <- sucks+ Aug 03 19:32:17 cheesy3000 needs to be converted to sendmail.cf ;o) Aug 03 19:40:17 grr... well the platform is still building Aug 03 19:40:43 NOTE: package gmp-4.2.1-r1: task do_package_write: completed Aug 03 19:40:43 NOTE: package gmp-4.2.1-r1: task do_populate_staging: started ... for example, is where it's at Aug 03 19:40:50 is it anywhere near done? Aug 03 19:41:30 meh, i need a latte and i need to ship some b0rked hardware Aug 03 19:47:34 :D it's here! :D Aug 03 19:48:20 * abraxa_ hands mdt a trumpet to cheer Aug 03 19:48:36 * abraxa_ throws confetti Aug 03 19:55:53 ping Aug 03 19:56:10 pong Aug 03 19:56:53 openmoko: 03zecke * r2626 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/libraries/libmokoui2/ (ChangeLog libmokoui/moko-finger-scroll.c): (log message trimmed) Aug 03 19:56:53 openmoko: 2007-08-03 Holger Hans Peter Freyther Aug 03 19:56:53 openmoko: Change GtkAdjustment handling to be the Gtk+ way. There is Aug 03 19:56:53 openmoko: gtk_widget_set_scroll_adjustments which widgets that support Aug 03 19:56:54 openmoko: scrolling indirectly implement (GtkTreeView, GtkViewport, GtkLayout). Aug 03 19:56:56 openmoko: This allows to embed WebKitGtkPage which only implements the Gtk+ way Aug 03 19:56:58 openmoko: of scrolling but does not export the GtkAdjustment via properties. Aug 03 19:59:07 mickey|dinner: tada, don't hit me Aug 03 19:59:35 hehe. Aug 03 20:00:29 zecke Aug 03 20:00:41 at least your plane didnt crash Aug 03 20:01:09 woglinde: what makes you think that? Aug 03 20:01:15 dont know Aug 03 20:01:41 I expected you back online on monday Aug 03 20:01:51 all hail umts Aug 03 20:02:02 woglinde: and they even have it in NRW... Aug 03 20:02:32 oh Aug 03 20:02:33 okay Aug 03 20:02:35 I see Aug 03 20:02:49 I tought you would travel to netherlands Aug 03 20:04:39 woglinde: I need internet to get my webkit patches reviewed :} Aug 03 20:12:02 zecke did you see owb? Aug 03 20:12:15 owb? Aug 03 20:12:25 http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS7100942241.html Aug 03 20:13:23 ah Aug 03 20:13:34 Yeah, writing a wrapper for wrapper layer :) Aug 03 20:13:51 or was this the brwoser you showed me? Aug 03 20:14:12 * zecke should switch to a license with attribution... Aug 03 20:14:18 Hey, question - what is the MicroSD card mount point? Aug 03 20:15:00 oolonc: mount /dev/mmcblk0p1 /media/card Aug 03 20:15:46 Hmm, no such device. Aug 03 20:16:11 And I have the card in there. Aug 03 20:17:20 oolonc: Try reseating it. Aug 03 20:17:30 The holder is not perhaps the most robust and reliable. Aug 03 20:17:36 * SpeedEvil had that problem earlier. Aug 03 20:18:43 I hope they'll fix the holders in gta03. Aug 03 20:19:50 hope the microSD will be insertable from the side on gta03 Aug 03 20:20:10 actually one inside and outside would be best Aug 03 20:20:55 I don't want too many holes in the outside. They always give room for dust to get in. Aug 03 20:21:01 any reason why? Writchie Aug 03 20:21:18 store media on the removable Aug 03 20:21:27 programs on the internal Aug 03 20:22:18 swap file is even practical which would effectively double the memory Aug 03 20:22:29 I would like to get more flash on board + card slot Aug 03 20:22:31 yeah, but swap on SD? Aug 03 20:22:32 but you wouldn't want to put that on a removable Aug 03 20:22:33 yuck Aug 03 20:22:36 daMaestro: SD are cheap Aug 03 20:22:55 swapping on sd works ok on n800 Aug 03 20:22:57 I think gt02 goes toe 256MB Aug 03 20:23:13 it was essential on the first 770 release Aug 03 20:23:18 Hmmm, it shouldn't be necessary to format the device, should it? Aug 03 20:23:36 for the SD card? Aug 03 20:23:48 I'm still not seeing it as mounted. Aug 03 20:24:06 most SD cards are preformatted with a single FAT partition Aug 03 20:24:18 oolonc: maybe you will need mmc modules loaded Aug 03 20:25:17 Could you suggest how to do this? Aug 03 20:25:42 oolonc: I do not remember module name Aug 03 20:25:43 can i see someone from here at the cccamp ?? Aug 03 20:25:58 Ok, I'll look, thanks! Aug 03 20:26:25 Lynx: Just visit the OpenMoko team: http://events.ccc.de/camp/2007/GSM_Village Aug 03 20:26:52 stefan_schmidt I will not come Aug 03 20:26:56 no time Aug 03 20:27:01 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Bootloader]] [[MacOS_X]] [[P1_Owners]] [[Neo1973:GTA01:Kernel]] [[Wishlist:custum_input_on_computer]] [[Listen_Up_Community]] [[Other_OSes]] [[Manually_using_SMS]] [[Talk:Neo1973_Audio_Subsystem]] Aug 03 20:27:11 woglinde: Family? Aug 03 20:27:14 yes Aug 03 20:27:21 work learning Aug 03 20:27:24 ... Aug 03 20:27:26 hrw: any link to the wiki or something? Aug 03 20:27:39 Maybe I just need to build my own image. Aug 03 20:27:53 woglinde: :( BUt family is important Aug 03 20:28:11 oolonc: modprobe s2cmci Aug 03 20:28:53 stefan_schmidt yes I looked at the kindergarten site and saw that someone will bring his 5 month old kid Aug 03 20:29:16 woglinde: Must be Tim Pritlove. He just went father. Aug 03 20:29:22 oh Aug 03 20:29:43 Yeah, people getting old. ;) Aug 03 20:29:57 hehe but I was faster Aug 03 20:30:05 :) Aug 03 20:30:34 lastlog modprobe Aug 03 20:30:52 sorry there ;[ Aug 03 20:30:59 stefan_schmidt: hey, are you at the camp yet? Aug 03 20:31:20 stefan_schmidt thx, i mean someone just form the channel here... Aug 03 20:31:39 zecke: No, I'm at home until tuesday morning. alphaone is already there help building it up. Aug 03 20:31:53 do you still have free space in your tent? Aug 03 20:31:58 Lynx: /me, alphaone, roh and I hope more. Aug 03 20:32:07 stefan_schmidt: the THC Scanner Project seams to be a nice Aug 03 20:32:08 ^^ Aug 03 20:32:15 are you involved Aug 03 20:32:45 zecke: For sleeping I fear not. Must ask Shoragan. It's his tent. For hacking we have still space in the 30m^2 tent. Aug 03 20:33:04 zecke: I'll ask Shoragan. Aug 03 20:33:25 okay, please do so :) Aug 03 20:33:30 Lynx: OpenMoko developer. But THC Scanner sounds interesting. I'll take a look what they have at the camp. Aug 03 20:33:50 stefan, theres not enough space in that tent for 3 people Aug 03 20:34:08 Shoragan: ok Aug 03 20:34:09 zecke you can have my tent Aug 03 20:34:22 zecke if I get it clean and healthy back Aug 03 20:34:46 zecke: So catch woglinde's. We should have place for building it up. Aug 03 20:35:07 * zecke is taking that personal :) Aug 03 20:35:15 eh Aug 03 20:35:15 zecke: You should not. Aug 03 20:35:36 zecke: We will find a place for you. I mean you were homeless for months. ;) Aug 03 20:35:38 its a tatonka it's not a cheap plus tent Aug 03 20:35:46 or aldi Aug 03 20:35:48 or real Aug 03 20:35:57 it is not real? Aug 03 20:35:59 damn Aug 03 20:38:17 stefan_schmidt: do you think I should file wishlist items for icons I would like to see drawn? Aug 03 20:38:43 Tasks lacked openmoko icon.. Aug 03 20:38:58 zecke: hmm, alphaone just requested some via the ml and got them in 1-2 days. Aug 03 20:39:01 I need to update neo phones finally Aug 03 20:39:31 stefan_schmidt: which one? community, framework? missing-icons-ml? Aug 03 20:39:50 zecke: graphics.. Let me search Aug 03 20:41:09 zecke: hmm, it's an internal one. pity. Aug 03 20:41:19 hehe :) Aug 03 20:41:32 zecke: I would suggest to mail directly to david and cc framework-devel Aug 03 20:41:50 * zecke thinks of Beavis and Butt-Head and emulates the great Cornholio Aug 03 20:41:59 zecke: Mail as pm Aug 03 20:41:59 hehe Aug 03 20:42:14 give me t.p. for my bunghole Aug 03 20:42:56 Are you threatening me? I'm the great zecke, cooperate with me! Aug 03 20:42:59 zecke: So you will come to the camp? Just grap woglinde's tent. Or sleep in the big tent we have. Aug 03 20:43:26 * stefan_schmidt thinks zecke is rather small. ;) Aug 03 20:43:38 I plan to cycle to the camp so I want to keep stuff at a minimum Aug 03 20:43:38 roh is smaller Aug 03 20:43:42 hehe Aug 03 20:43:46 zecke really? Aug 03 20:43:51 cycle hm Aug 03 20:44:11 woglinde: probably just the last mile, but anyway Aug 03 20:44:34 zecke: So I can try to get you a place. Aug 03 20:45:11 zecke: We still have the caravan and more people from Braunschweig bringing tents. Should be fine to get a place. Aug 03 20:45:34 stefan_schmidt: I just need something dry enough to crash Aug 03 20:46:18 i need to write a fast sideways-8x16 text routine Aug 03 20:46:22 and then hook it up to a terminal engine Aug 03 20:46:33 then fullscren you get 80x25 with some stuff on the bottom if ya want Aug 03 20:46:52 zecke: Then the big tent would be fine. At What The Hack we sleeped and hacked in this one. This time we are just older and like separate normal tents Aug 03 20:46:54 openmoko: 03zecke * r2627 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-feedreader2/ (9 files in 3 dirs): (log message trimmed) Aug 03 20:46:54 openmoko: 007-08-03 Holger Hans Peter Freyther Aug 03 20:46:54 openmoko: Implement the feed_item_view which will be used to show Aug 03 20:46:54 openmoko: one feed entry to the user. Aug 03 20:46:54 openmoko: Fix Makefile.am and the naming of the (unused) images. Aug 03 20:46:56 openmoko: * data/Makefile.am: Aug 03 20:46:58 openmoko: * data/rssreader_refresh_all.png: Removed. Aug 03 20:47:25 zecke: Which day you will come? Aug 03 20:48:06 stefan_schmidt: I don't know. I will be back in berlin on monday evening. Aug 03 20:49:06 zecke: I should be there at tuesday afternoon. alphaone and Shoragan will be already there if you crash before Aug 03 20:49:19 grr.... wow... so is something going wrong with my build... or does it really run for 10+ hours? Aug 03 20:49:25 no 10 Aug 03 20:49:27 is okay Aug 03 20:49:35 ok, cool Aug 03 20:49:42 really neat system Aug 03 20:49:55 i mean it is doing a lot of heavy lifting ... and i typed 2-3 commands ;-D Aug 03 20:50:31 stefan_schmidt: i will take a look at the camp Aug 03 20:50:40 Lynx: ok Aug 03 20:51:21 it is neat. especially how it builds it's own "native" version of all the tools that it needs. It's only a few packages short of bootstrapping "linux-native"... ;0 Aug 03 20:51:40 mwester *g* add git to the list Aug 03 20:52:43 zecke: We should have a place for you Aug 03 20:53:31 Hi alphaone! :-) Aug 03 20:53:55 hi Elrond, all :-) Aug 03 20:53:58 alphaone - How's that keyboard business going? Or should I better not ask? Aug 03 20:55:11 my prototype Neo-remote works :] Aug 03 20:55:19 Is there a fix for having to press 'aux' every few seconds when you're flashing the neo? Aug 03 20:55:51 jgm - It should be fixed since ages in u-boot. Aug 03 20:56:02 jgm: how old uboot you have? :) Aug 03 20:56:06 I have 1.2.0-moko9 Aug 03 20:56:11 May 19th Aug 03 20:56:11 Elrond: hmm, better not :-) Aug 03 20:56:25 jgm: so you do not have to press aux Aug 03 20:56:41 should probably recode in C while adding configurability, to be able to house it on the Neo without python Aug 03 20:56:46 jgm: problem was solved in march/april iirc Aug 03 20:57:21 Hmm... weird it definitely died when I was first setting it up, guess it could have been battery-related Aug 03 20:57:40 jgm - What hardware? GTA01Bv03? Aug 03 20:58:23 v4 Aug 03 20:58:39 bye Aug 03 20:58:49 I've now left it uploading rootfs for the past minute or two without it dying so I guess that it was just a glitch early on Aug 03 20:59:53 Ahh, for v4 I don't have a recommended u-boot version. Aug 03 21:00:01 so, once i build up my env... when updates come out i only have to rebuild the targets that have changed? Aug 03 21:00:04 * daMaestro just making sure Aug 03 21:00:16 i'd like to get this system packaged and in fedora this weekend Aug 03 21:00:30 so we can yum w00t-openmoko-g Aug 03 21:00:31 lol Aug 03 21:01:37 * k-s[AWAY_WORK] is back. Aug 03 21:02:01 I just finish playing a game of tetris on my neo :) Aug 03 21:02:07 mrface: nice :) Aug 03 21:02:12 mrface hehe Aug 03 21:03:14 it made me think, for simple games that use arrow keys. could we have an alternate keyboard layout containing just big directional buttons? Aug 03 21:03:43 it feels pretty awkward using the tiny arrow keys on the keyboard Aug 03 21:03:53 it'll be necessary for j2me games :) Aug 03 21:05:28 stephwm I will test now the last fixes from guilluam for qt and when it runs I will check in midpath and cacao Aug 03 21:06:13 * Stephmw cheers Aug 03 21:06:17 * Stephmw does the J2ME dance Aug 03 21:06:36 but I didnt test under gtk Aug 03 21:06:50 but I assume it should work as it does on the n800 Aug 03 21:10:29 * mjr sighs as he considers translating python gtk code to C Aug 03 21:11:05 mjr: just use pypy or python's freeze :) Aug 03 21:12:19 is there a python ipk available now? Aug 03 21:12:21 well I _would_ like the end result to be a small Moko binary... Aug 03 21:12:34 for the python runtime Aug 03 21:12:58 mjr: right, you don't want it to depend on python? Aug 03 21:13:00 latest OE can build python Aug 03 21:13:01 or will we be getting python into the standard Moko system? Aug 03 21:13:12 Jiten, depending on the above... Aug 03 21:13:13 it wasn't in the 2007.2 build i did last night tho Aug 03 21:13:29 still time to argue for it with the openmoko guys i think ;) Aug 03 21:13:39 I see Aug 03 21:13:40 python++ Aug 03 21:13:46 what about pysco? Aug 03 21:13:50 i386 only Aug 03 21:13:52 not even amd64 Aug 03 21:13:55 * mrface loves python Aug 03 21:14:13 * kristian-m had python running in qemu last week - from oe Aug 03 21:14:16 * zecke loves monty python as well Aug 03 21:14:24 zecke, +1 Aug 03 21:14:37 zecke, only monty python lovers would have been able to create python Aug 03 21:14:55 both pythons rock, and I'd like both on my Moko Aug 03 21:14:59 psyco's pining for the fjords i think Aug 03 21:15:10 one as a runtime, the other as video files Aug 03 21:15:14 :) Aug 03 21:15:21 daMaestro: yeah, I enjoy screaming at random people with quotes from "The Life of Brian" (hopefully that is the english title) Aug 03 21:15:24 ipkg install python, and gta02 Aug 03 21:15:26 hehe Aug 03 21:16:13 i've yet to get autoplug nat working but that might be because i have bridging going too for all my VMs Aug 03 21:16:18 anyone iptables guru? Aug 03 21:16:29 Don't suppose anyone has bumped in to this error before: dbus-marshal-recursive.c(1186)got here Aug 03 21:16:29 i'd like to add this to the wiki, but need to get it running first Aug 03 21:16:53 I'm getting this on the neo but not when I run the code natively on my ubuntu box Aug 03 21:17:18 I found a python ipk file, and it installs, but throws "Illegal instruction" when run Aug 03 21:17:51 root@fic-gta01:~$ python Aug 03 21:17:51 mrface he try only from your local dealer Aug 03 21:17:51 Python 2.4.4 (#2, Jul 27 2007, 14:47:55) Aug 03 21:17:51 [GCC 4.1.2] on linux2 Aug 03 21:18:12 yep Aug 03 21:18:21 Hadaka: wha? Aug 03 21:18:26 Hadaka: how? Aug 03 21:18:28 http://dpaste.com/15987/ <-- /etc/sysconfig/network-scripts/net.hotplug on fedora Aug 03 21:18:36 any ideas would be awesome Aug 03 21:18:46 it get's it's IP.. and everything is setup.. other then the nat is failing... Aug 03 21:18:52 i might need some input rule, not sure Aug 03 21:18:52 mrface: well, I actually installed an Ã¥ngstrom image to test Aug 03 21:19:03 oh Aug 03 21:19:19 and just now ran ipkg install python-core Aug 03 21:20:12 root@fic-gta01:~$ time python -c pass -> real0m 0.26s, user0m 0.16s, sys0m 0.07s Aug 03 21:20:16 entirely survivable Aug 03 21:20:21 Hadaka, from where? Aug 03 21:20:56 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Application_Development_Crash_Course <- that has instructions on how to build an actual openmoko image which contains python Aug 03 21:21:07 mjr: I just added instructions to the wiki on how to get Ã¥ngstrom running Aug 03 21:22:12 daMaestro: unless fedora has some magic to prevent it, that iptables rule looks like it might work or not, depending on your firewall scripts. Aug 03 21:22:44 Mmh. Ah well, perhaps I'll continue with python, trusting it will be easily enough available... Aug 03 21:22:46 (and like said on the page, this is entirely for hacking - things are broken in the image) Aug 03 21:22:57 Jiten, yeah.. it might just be getting to the bridge and not out the right interface Aug 03 21:23:10 Jiten, i've not taken the time to find where the packets actually make it; thanks for the feedback Aug 03 21:23:48 daMaestro: I mean, there might already be a rule that drops FORWARD chain packets regardless of the default policy Aug 03 21:24:03 well.. i can -I to get around that ;-) Aug 03 21:24:08 and even POSTROUTING table might contain something to that effect. Aug 03 21:24:15 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Image:Gta01b_v4_front.png implies that the shield over the CPU and power chip may be removable. Aug 03 21:24:17 sure, i'll show you Aug 03 21:24:23 Anyone tried this? Aug 03 21:25:35 daMaestro: also, if nothing cleans up the rules when that device goes down, the next time it goes up, you'd get 2 similar rules. Aug 03 21:26:41 Jiten, http://dpaste.com/15988/ Aug 03 21:26:56 Jiten, yes.. i still need to find where i need to do the cleanup Aug 03 21:27:42 daMaestro: your FORWARD chain has a reject-all rule at the end Aug 03 21:28:07 meaning, anything not specifically allowed in the rules before it, will get rejected. Aug 03 21:28:40 Jiten, yeah... i thought iptables -P FORWARD ACCEPT would rock that Aug 03 21:29:08 so i just need to add some forward accept rules for usb0 ? Aug 03 21:29:09 that only changes the default policy. Policy only has an effect if no specific rule matches Aug 03 21:29:20 ahh, gotcha Aug 03 21:30:09 am i able to iptables -I FORWARD -i usb0 -j ACCEPT ? Aug 03 21:30:58 I believe that'd work. Aug 03 21:31:19 cool, i'll update and test Aug 03 21:31:33 i've actually got to fix other iptables issues with my kvm guests and bridging too Aug 03 21:31:43 so iptables is off right now (and i'm not at that machine right now either) Aug 03 21:31:48 Jiten, bravo! Aug 03 21:31:49 lol Aug 03 21:32:14 * daMaestro is trying to work hard to make everything *just work* for developing with the neo on fedora Aug 03 21:34:50 daMaestro: woot Aug 03 21:36:02 don-o, yeah.. it should be sweet. 1) mokomakefile style build env 2) qemu device 3) dfu-util 4) hotplug actions for automagic networking to and for the neo Aug 03 21:36:16 don-o, 2, 3 are done... 1, 4 are in the works Aug 03 21:36:33 and i'll just stick all the packages in the repos so we can just yum install openmoko-platform Aug 03 21:36:35 or something Aug 03 21:37:01 which means epel should get the packages too (rhel extras) Aug 03 21:37:16 daMaestro: the way you've done the hotplug script, it works but will slowly bloat your firewall ruleset by adding the same rules again and again. Aug 03 21:37:31 Jiten, i just need to remove them.. i know Aug 03 21:38:29 that is rather bad if you're using the iptables-script that simply just saves the rules on shutdown and reloads them at startup Aug 03 21:38:49 Jiten, i found them Aug 03 21:39:03 Jiten, no.. they are being inserted as udev rules Aug 03 21:39:17 Jiten, and i looked... oh 10 lines down were i can define unplug actions Aug 03 21:39:18 ;-) Aug 03 21:39:35 Okay... next wild theory... I have another hardware revision of the HH... decoding HH protocol on my HH looks quite strange. Aug 03 21:39:38 all your firewall rules are from udev rules? Aug 03 21:39:50 no Aug 03 21:40:50 at least debian comes, by default, with a script /etc/init.d/iptables that is used to save and restore the active firewall rules. Aug 03 21:46:18 daMaestro: anyway, the thing about removing the rules is that it only works as long as no other scripts mess around with the iptables rules. Aug 03 21:46:29 I got charged :) Aug 03 21:46:55 Jiten, well i'll just use some sort of subsystem locks to figure out what rules i added Aug 03 21:47:02 Jiten, just to make sure i'm not tooling with other rules Aug 03 21:47:54 well, of course you can always get a list of the rules and only remove ones that look like ones your script added. Aug 03 21:48:17 takes more coding though. Aug 03 21:57:05 how can I mount the microSD in the neo? guess the device is /dev/mmcblk0, isn't it? Aug 03 21:57:30 Something like that, yes. Aug 03 21:57:41 With normal images, it should end up on /media/card Aug 03 21:57:43 if it's worked Aug 03 21:57:45 thomasg, it should be on /media/card Aug 03 21:57:52 oh... lol.. quick draw SpeedEvil Aug 03 22:00:11 daMaestro, it isn't Aug 03 22:01:49 but the device is there - if I do a cat /dev/mmcblk0(p1) I get a random output, could be the files on the card. unfortunately I can't mout it by hand :( Aug 03 22:02:34 thomasg: Can you access the partition with fdisk? Aug 03 22:03:01 I can Aug 03 22:03:26 fdisk /dev/mmcblk0 shows me /dev/mmcblk0p1 as partition, type 83, with 983 blocks Aug 03 22:03:53 Then I wonder why mount doesn't want to mount it Aug 03 22:03:58 if a block is 512 kB, this is the card :) Aug 03 22:04:05 me too Aug 03 22:04:13 is there a way to enter tab from the on screen keyboard? Aug 03 22:04:14 What does dmesg say when you try? Aug 03 22:04:28 mount: Mounting /dev/mmcblk0p1 on /media/card failed: Invalid argument Aug 03 22:04:56 dmesg doesnt show anything usable for me, I can paste it, moment Aug 03 22:05:36 http://phpfi.com/254254 Aug 03 22:06:49 thomasg: Just 8 lines? Aug 03 22:07:00 yeah Aug 03 22:07:53 Ah, cause the mount message isn't in there, but oh well - maybe check if the mount point exists and try specifying the fs by hand Aug 03 22:08:01 And you're doing this as root, yes? Aug 03 22:08:05 yes, I am Aug 03 22:08:12 I don't even have another user yet :) Aug 03 22:08:16 hehe Aug 03 22:08:26 Do you have the vfatfs (sp?) module? Aug 03 22:09:04 the card is ext2 Aug 03 22:09:08 not vfat Aug 03 22:09:14 Ah, soory. Aug 03 22:09:31 but you're right :) Aug 03 22:09:38 no ext module loaded Aug 03 22:11:07 and the images seems not to contain the ext module as well (at least it is not in /lib/modules/2.6.../kernel/fs ) Aug 03 22:11:22 Well, that's where one would expect it to be. Aug 03 22:17:25 howdy, was looking at the wiki and wondering why go from stereo to mono? Not bothered by it, but just wondering :) Aug 03 22:17:41 doc|work: Probably making space for WiFi Aug 03 22:17:52 ah, ok Aug 03 22:18:41 is the GTA02 3g compatible? Aug 03 22:18:49 no Aug 03 22:18:52 ok Aug 03 22:19:09 can that be upgraded in software or is it a hardware thing? Aug 03 22:20:38 doc|work: It's a hardware thing as it depends on the GSM chipset Aug 03 22:20:44 ok, thanks Aug 03 22:20:57 You're welcome =3 Aug 03 22:21:14 that looks like a skinny person's back and arse :| Aug 03 22:21:26 What does? Aug 03 22:21:30 Oh Aug 03 22:21:31 heh Aug 03 22:21:32 :) Aug 03 22:22:09 I'm going to get an GTA02, financial disasters withstanding, but are there any plans for GTA03 yet? Aug 03 22:23:37 The team does have plans for more phones but I doubt there are any prototypes even Aug 03 22:23:50 sure, but any idea on features? Aug 03 22:24:05 Nooooo idea :) Aug 03 22:24:15 i'm bored and in a mood for thinking about shiny stuff :) Aug 03 22:24:43 Go for it then, the wishlist on the wiki always longs for enhancements Aug 03 22:25:13 I'm reading it now, it has lots and stuff I think would be silly (due to expense) :) Aug 03 22:25:35 then again, I think gps is silly but *shrug* :) Aug 03 22:25:45 GPS is niiiiice imo Aug 03 22:26:18 gps++ Aug 03 22:26:49 gps+wifi = win Aug 03 22:26:55 well, maybe, but only if there's a mapping app, oooh I like that idea maybe Aug 03 22:27:11 yeah, if you can get wifi :) Aug 03 22:27:21 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Minimo]] [[P1_Owners]] [[Main_Page]] [[Angstrom_on_Neo1973]] [[MacOS_X]] [[OpenMoko2007.2]] Aug 03 22:27:30 i actually think gps+camera would be awesome... you could hang the neo off something and take a picture every 100ft or so Aug 03 22:27:43 happycube: a dog? :) Aug 03 22:27:44 and you could automagically geotag all photos Aug 03 22:27:48 heh Aug 03 22:27:51 run fido! run! Aug 03 22:28:10 See [[Openmoko]] on the wiki Aug 03 22:28:12 sort-of. Aug 03 22:28:23 See [[Openstreetmap]] on the wiki Aug 03 22:28:35 though the companion page - that would really cover that needs to be added. Aug 03 22:28:38 gta02'll be a great one piece wardriver Aug 03 22:28:54 yeah Aug 03 22:29:49 I think it might be nice if the phone was a little less... ugly. The iphone, which is probably its greatest competitor is a far nicer looking phone :| Aug 03 22:30:21 I like the design - it's unique and makes a point: we don't need to copy anyone else Aug 03 22:30:24 doc|work: there's a page on custom cases :) Aug 03 22:30:32 doc|work: on the wiki that is Aug 03 22:30:45 abraxa_: sure, but it's bulky looking Aug 03 22:31:20 openstreetmap looks like a nice idea Aug 03 22:31:36 3422 root 20 0 1108m 976m 973m R 100 48.5 774:51.06 qemu-kvm .... lol Aug 03 22:31:54 ^ openmoko building Aug 03 22:32:03 Stephmw: aye, I'm thinking the case with the space with the space removed, but it's not going to work if the internals are the same :/ Aug 03 22:32:20 s/with the space with/with Aug 03 22:32:24 It's basically a complete rebake if you remove the space. Aug 03 22:32:35 You'd want to put bluetooth and wifi modules on the one PCB. Aug 03 22:32:42 along with everything else. Aug 03 22:32:56 exactly Aug 03 22:33:03 so an alternate case isn't really possible :/ Aug 03 22:33:10 It's possible. Aug 03 22:33:20 An alternate case that's much smaller is hard. Aug 03 22:33:54 stephwm sorry git compiling cost me some nerv Aug 03 22:33:56 If you for example lost the GPS antenna, or relocated it, that'd shrink it down a moderate bit. Aug 03 22:34:01 so I will not check it in today Aug 03 22:34:08 maabay tomorrow nite Aug 03 22:34:23 sexy new tiny gps antennas exist Aug 03 22:34:29 see sparkfun.com for examples Aug 03 22:34:34 ckuethe: GPS or GSM? Aug 03 22:34:45 gps Aug 03 22:34:53 like, fingernail-sized Aug 03 22:35:02 I thought the hammerhead module has an antenna integrated? Aug 03 22:35:05 * doc|work is looking forward to october :) Aug 03 22:35:13 not from the disassembly photos Aug 03 22:35:25 Oh, you need an external antenna for GPS to work? Aug 03 22:35:26 i thought the hammerhead was just the rf/correlator chip Aug 03 22:35:43 you still need some kind of antenna to get rf into the chip Aug 03 22:35:43 It is. Aug 03 22:35:50 albeit a small antenna Aug 03 22:36:01 That's kind of a downer actually Aug 03 22:36:06 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973_Hardware Aug 03 22:36:15 second picture down - the grey wire goes to the GPS Aug 03 22:36:37 GPS antenna Aug 03 22:36:42 the antenna is external to the hammerhead chip, but internal to the handset Aug 03 22:36:57 it's not gonna be flopping around on a 6' cable :) Aug 03 22:37:11 Oh, then I misunderstood - I thought the square module was the hammerhead itself Aug 03 22:37:54 Thanks for clarifying :) Aug 03 22:38:10 no, that's just the ceramic antenna Aug 03 22:38:51 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Image:Gta01b_v3_case_top_open_pcb_lifted.jpg Aug 03 22:40:28 I suspect it may be an active antenna. Aug 03 22:40:33 I am not sure though. Aug 03 22:40:40 i think so Aug 03 22:40:42 by the way, how long do they take to boot up? Aug 03 22:40:46 what? Aug 03 22:41:21 looking at pcb_lifted.jpg, you can see the little tin can on the back of the antenna, that would be a good place to put an LNA Aug 03 22:41:52 also in http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Image:Gta01b_v3_case_top_open_white.jpg Aug 03 22:43:03 doc|work: Current Neos? About 20 seconds I'd estimate Aug 03 22:43:13 Between 1s - with optimal not-implemented AGPS - 11s - warm start - it's been off a minute or so - 30-60s if it's got a good view of the sky. Aug 03 22:43:32 abraxa_: good, thanks Aug 03 22:44:06 In principle, on-board software can take a position in one second every three minutes or so. Aug 03 22:44:27 In practice - well, we'll see. Aug 03 22:44:56 ckuethe: doesn't it already have a LNA? Aug 03 22:45:21 ckuethe: (IIRC the neo power subsystem page has one of the voltage buses with a LNA listed on it...) Aug 03 22:45:33 gut feeling: Aug 03 22:45:58 no LNA inside hammerhead, it sends +3.3V to an LNA down the RF cable Aug 03 22:46:08 trivial to do. Aug 03 22:46:24 The HH doesn't actually require a LNA. Aug 03 22:46:25 and you just send a command / assert a pin on hammerhead to turn that off to save power Aug 03 22:46:37 If it has one is another question. Aug 03 22:47:20 it would make sense to have one Aug 03 22:47:39 SpeedEvil: it is on AVDD, check the wiki page Aug 03 22:47:54 Used by: AGPS (lna power int/ext, antenna switch) Aug 03 22:48:10 Controlled by: EN_AGPS3V GPIO Aug 03 22:48:31 until we see the schematics we don'tknow if it's there Aug 03 22:48:42 sure, we could route the signal Aug 03 22:48:42 k Aug 03 22:48:58 but that doesn't guarantee that there is in fact an LNA Aug 03 22:49:02 anyone familiar with PUK codes and/or their use(s) ? Aug 03 22:49:14 but given the little metal can on the back of the antenna, i'd say there is an LNA under there Aug 03 22:49:20 Prolly Aug 03 22:49:43 rushforth: the only use for a PUK code is to reset the corresponding PIN code Aug 03 22:49:47 just found some information in the att support area that mentions I need to 'unblock' all new sims to enable their functionality Aug 03 22:49:52 Hey, question: Aug 03 22:49:52 using a PUK code Aug 03 22:50:09 rushforth: not really... once, i typed my SIM PIN wrong too many times, and i had to call my carrier to get the PUK code to let me back into my SIM Aug 03 22:50:20 ckuethe: interesting, i see Aug 03 22:50:38 ckuethe: you had to call your carrier? Aug 03 22:50:41 yep Aug 03 22:50:42 Is the lat/long relatively visible from nmea data? Aug 03 22:50:49 ckuethe: with Claro, the PUK comes with the SIM chip Aug 03 22:50:51 oolonc: yes Aug 03 22:50:58 Ok, cool. Aug 03 22:51:08 cesarb: north american carriers have their heads up their butts. Aug 03 22:51:23 ckuethe: in one of these things you have to scrub (is this the right word?) to see the number Aug 03 22:51:56 ckuethe: on the "large" part of the SIM (the part which is left over after you detach the small part with the chip/contacts) Aug 03 22:51:58 ckuethe: their rates make that obvious :/ Aug 03 22:52:23 hi Aug 03 22:52:30 We have the PIN, PUK (hidden), PIN2 (hidden), PUK2 (hidden)... and the PIN is the same for everyone (a well-known obvious one) Aug 03 22:52:32 oolonc: there are at least three generic nmea sentences with position: GPRMC, GPGGA and GPGLL Aug 03 22:53:19 ah, the sim "carrier" card... about the size of a credit card Aug 03 22:53:30 nope, nothing useful like that from my carrier. Aug 03 22:54:02 $GPRMC,120651.00,A,5613.012131,N,00306.722647,W,000.0,000.0,07,,,A*47 - earlier today. Aug 03 22:54:13 speedevil hehe Aug 03 22:54:18 56 degrees, 13.012 minutes north Aug 03 22:54:21 ... Aug 03 22:54:27 ckuethe: in fact, it's the original size of the SIM card, if Wikipedia is correct ;-) Aug 03 22:54:39 ckuethe: but phones got too small to use such a large smartcard Aug 03 22:54:46 I have somewhere a phone that takes full-sized cards. Aug 03 22:54:50 It no longer works. Aug 03 22:54:59 (it's not "about" the size of a credit card, it's exactly the size of a credit card) Aug 03 22:55:05 yeah, i guess some satellite receivers still use the "big" smartcards Aug 03 22:55:19 http://www.werple.net.au/~gnb/gps/nmea.html <--- various nmea sentences explained. Aug 03 22:55:28 ckuethe: not to mention the EMV ones (most real credit cards and bank cards) Aug 03 22:55:29 most of which you'll never need Aug 03 22:58:51 Heh, nice. Aug 03 22:59:19 I think I need to go outside, I don't think I can get a lock in the building. Thanks all! Aug 03 22:59:28 some receivers can Aug 03 22:59:38 we'd love it if the hammerhead got there one day Aug 03 23:00:00 It's here now, with the stock firmware. Aug 03 23:00:11 Well - out of stock firmware. Aug 03 23:00:20 It was getting a 6 sat fix inside my house. Aug 03 23:00:39 A Garmin GPS-12 gets sometimes barely a hint of 2 sats. Aug 03 23:00:40 for keyboard input is there any work being done on the metropolis keyboard designs? Aug 03 23:01:28 similar to the myKbd ATOMIK for the palm Aug 03 23:01:45 np: Blondie - Atomic. Aug 03 23:01:48 SpeedEvil: no Aug 03 23:05:51 Could have been worse. Aug 03 23:06:04 I could have chosen something by Atomik Kitten. Aug 03 23:11:16 you have atomic kitten? Aug 03 23:12:13 I could have torrented some. Aug 03 23:16:02 I read somewhere in the scrollback that 2007.2 is going to use EABI... Does anyone have a source for that information so I could read more about it? Aug 03 23:17:02 cesarb: 2007.2 is going to be based on angstrom Aug 03 23:17:19 Is the touchscreen connected to the pcf* or the SoC? Aug 03 23:18:01 SpeedEvil: SoC IIRC, the info is on the neo hardware page Aug 03 23:18:18 * woglinde dances Aug 03 23:18:34 midpath and cacao-cldc works with qt-embedded Aug 03 23:18:46 Oh well. Aug 03 23:19:03 I was just reading the pcf* datasheets and found fun stuff on measuring touch pressure. Aug 03 23:19:09 no I can go to bet Aug 03 23:19:19 bed Aug 03 23:19:22 nite all Aug 03 23:23:42 The bootloader page says stuff about adding to the boot menu. Aug 03 23:23:54 Are these additions stored? Aug 03 23:24:07 yeah if you run 'saveenv' Aug 03 23:24:20 they're u-boot environment variables Aug 03 23:24:49 * mjr has a python app that loads remote control button/command configuration from a file, yay. Will have to make it use ssh though so one need not run it remotely through X (usable though that is through btnet) Aug 03 23:24:52 hey ... finally, my credit card has been charged today :-) For those who've already gone through the process - how long did it take for you from charging to shipping? Aug 03 23:25:47 about a week Aug 03 23:25:47 took 3 days to australia Aug 03 23:25:50 might be faster this time Aug 03 23:25:55 happycube: so tehy're saved to NAND? Aug 03 23:26:01 yeah Aug 03 23:26:16 hmmm, I was talking about starting to ship (so the next e-mail) ... - ? Aug 03 23:28:48 anyone here using the newest (august 3rd) build and can tell me if the ext2 module is included? Aug 03 23:31:22 SpeedEvil: there's a whole partition just to save the uboot environment ;-) Aug 03 23:32:21 btw, what's the highest ticket # charged so far? Aug 03 23:38:38 it's ironc - my openmokobuild (buildhost) doesn't have an ext2/3 driver with it - but mkfs.ext2/3. it has a (v)fat driver with it - but no mkfs.vfat -.- Aug 03 23:42:08 cesarb: I've got 3706 and was charged today Aug 03 23:43:56 night everyone ... Aug 03 23:48:44 Hmm. Aug 03 23:48:46 3706. Aug 03 23:49:06 That would seem to be >1000 total units. Aug 03 23:50:09 Well, I'm on the 3500s... And I didn't get any email, I have to check with my friend if he was charged (I don't have a credit card, so a friend used his for me) Aug 03 23:50:38 Odd. Aug 03 23:51:58 SpeedEvil: well, the charging step doesn't generate any email, does it? Aug 03 23:52:05 Don't know. Aug 03 23:52:12 Wasn't the email on the next step (sending/tracking)? Aug 03 23:52:15 I think so Aug 03 23:52:38 * cesarb wishes FIC was, you know, less terse with status reports on their RT tickets Aug 03 23:52:55 * * OM Bug 682 has been created by harlyn(AT)jenkins.org Aug 03 23:52:56 * * OpenMoko compatible with T-Mobile Hotspot@Home Aug 03 23:52:56 * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=682 Aug 03 23:53:06 Even if it was a spammy "it'll take some more time, you know" to people with still open tickets, sent by one of harald's hacky perl scripts Aug 03 23:53:25 thomasg: maybe you can use modules from: http://buildhost.openmoko.org/tmp/deploy/images/ Aug 03 23:54:01 That's not a bug! :) Aug 03 23:56:07 thomasg: ext2 on mmc works for me with module from there Aug 03 23:56:27 ok b1303s__ thx for the info, I'll try Aug 04 00:12:27 lol, well my build is still compiling.. next time i am going to export both procs to the guest Aug 04 00:13:26 lol Aug 04 00:28:01 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[OpenMoko2007.2]] [[Bootloader]] [[Other_OSes]] [[P1_Owners]] Aug 04 00:44:59 hm, I switched from ext2 to vfat on the microSD - but now uboot can't detect the mmc-device correctly Aug 04 00:47:49 thomasg:dunno but did you "depmod" after cp the module? Aug 04 00:48:03 no, I didn't use the module Aug 04 00:48:13 formated the sd in my desktop machine Aug 04 00:48:18 ah Aug 04 00:49:08 it's really ironic :) Aug 04 00:49:22 i use ext2 formatted on the neo Aug 04 00:50:30 (and fdisk first) Aug 04 00:50:54 hm, awsome, after a reboot the dialer works :) Aug 04 00:51:33 :-) Aug 04 00:51:56 I use this image for 3 days no, it never worked -.- Aug 04 00:53:47 thomasd: my combi: http://buildhost.openmoko.org/tmp/deploy/images/openmoko-devel-image-fic-gta01-20070803091138.rootfs.jffs2 http://buildhost.openmoko.org/tmp/deploy/images/uImage-2.6.21.6-moko11-r1_0_0_2388_0-fic-gta01.bin and ext2.ko from http://buildhost.openmoko.org/tmp/deploy/images/modules-2.6.21.6-moko11-moko11-r1_0_0_2388_0-fic-gta01.tgz Aug 04 00:54:34 but i dont tested it with a sim Aug 04 00:58:13 gn8! Aug 04 01:18:33 hi guys Aug 04 01:19:33 hewwos Aug 04 01:20:00 hi Aug 04 01:20:03 'lo Aug 04 01:21:15 oi Aug 04 01:32:31 heya BryceLeo Aug 04 01:32:45 sup ZerothCloned Aug 04 01:51:37 How to build openmoko using my own kernel and toolchain? Aug 04 01:51:57 any guide? Aug 04 01:52:28 http://www.openembedded.org/%7Ekoen/usermanual.pdf if you read this and learn OE i'm sure you'll be able to do it Aug 04 01:57:15 Anyone done the 4G microSD thing? Aug 04 01:58:41 Thank you, I'll try. Aug 04 01:58:44 SpeedEvil: they're f*ing impossible to find Aug 04 01:58:54 Richard_: wish i could give you more help than that, but it's the best I got Aug 04 01:59:23 SpeedEvil: i've been trying to find a 4g micro sdhc but they're always sold out or "comming soon" Aug 04 01:59:52 Same here. Aug 04 02:00:21 SpeedEvil: what country are you from again? Aug 04 02:00:38 * SpeedEvil is from Scotland. Aug 04 02:01:06 SpeedEvil: k i'll do some checking Aug 04 02:01:29 I was more wondering if anyone had actually managed to obtain one. Aug 04 02:02:06 ahh, no i've been trying and if i manage i'd be willing to ship to someone with a device to get hacking Aug 04 02:02:14 ah, awesome Aug 04 02:02:41 They're "overdue" here Aug 04 02:02:56 yeah, that's pretty much all i've been seeing Aug 04 02:13:02 Is the note about dfu-util being broken on big endian machines still accurate? Aug 04 02:13:15 Eg, I can't flash my neo from my ibook g4? :/ Aug 04 02:15:01 Arachnid: i thought that they flashed but really slow Aug 04 02:15:17 It looks like building dfu-util is also a challenge Aug 04 02:15:30 I think I'll just wait until I can borrow my flatmate's linux laptop Aug 04 02:15:44 Arachnid: always a safe bet Aug 04 02:20:59 Arachnid: Did you check out the video mokoNinja posted on YouTube about flashing from a Mac? Aug 04 02:21:15 Maybe there are some helpful tips in the link to the original document Aug 04 02:23:22 anyone have a VPS sever and wanna recommend a good company? i only need a very basic plan with ssh and an ftp server Aug 04 02:23:48 Bryce_Leo: Slicehost :) Aug 04 02:24:23 thanks leppoc i'll check them out, i'm also looking at vps link because they have lightttpd Aug 04 02:27:03 anyone else wanna suggest a good vps Aug 04 02:30:28 Seconded on slicehost Aug 04 02:30:31 I host there too Aug 04 02:30:55 * * OM Bug 683 has been created by mail(AT)mmontour.net Aug 04 02:30:56 * * /etc/init.d/xserver-nodm not compatible with busybox's /bin/ps Aug 04 02:30:57 * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=683 Aug 04 02:31:00 Bryce_Leo: You know that with a real VPS you can install whatever HTTP server you want, right? Aug 04 02:31:25 so, does slicehost support IPv6? Aug 04 02:31:50 Not directly (yet) Aug 04 02:32:02 They've mentioned that they'd like to Aug 04 02:32:04 Arachnid: yes i know, but usually the ones that run lighttppd as default are cheaper Aug 04 02:32:16 Bryce_Leo: Eh? How so? Aug 04 02:32:42 doh. The only VPS I've seen so far with IPv6 is grokthis.net Aug 04 02:32:48 With slicehost, at least, you get a default install of your chosen distro - no http server by default, just use the package manager to install what you want Aug 04 02:32:56 hozer: You can always tunnel it yourself Aug 04 02:33:15 Arachnid: I can do that from home ;) Aug 04 02:33:19 The kernels on the VPSes support v6, they just don't have routing for it Aug 04 02:33:34 I wanted native v6 routing Aug 04 02:33:38 I figured Aug 04 02:33:48 Arachnid: they give you less ram usually thus costs less Aug 04 02:34:08 Arachnid: slicehost looks pretty darn good Aug 04 02:34:21 Bryce_Leo: I'd rather just pay by RAM, not by apps. :) Aug 04 02:34:33 They are. :) Aug 04 02:35:44 yeah i'll probably go with them setup proftpd sshd and be done with it Aug 04 02:35:57 Don't forget to list one of us as referrer. ;) Aug 04 02:36:01 Aug 04 02:36:25 lol Aug 04 02:36:26 anyone using gplhost? Aug 04 02:39:19 hoser not me Aug 04 02:40:00 lol Arachnid :) Aug 04 02:43:21 If you want to refer someone, do it for Arachnid: he made more work than me on openmoko... Aug 04 02:43:39 (easy, I have not done anything yet ;) ) Aug 04 02:43:55 (still trying to setup everything) Aug 04 02:44:17 leppoc: Actually, that's not true - I haven't really done anything but pontificate yet either :P Aug 04 02:44:28 lol Aug 04 02:44:40 lol i wrote a now out-dated crash cource because of 2007.2 Aug 04 02:44:52 I think that my make setup is finally runing :) Aug 04 02:45:58 alrighty guys i must be off, thanks for the suggestions! Aug 04 02:46:29 Have fun Aug 04 02:46:43 c ya! Aug 04 02:49:12 someone knows which version of monotone is required to run under xoo ? Aug 04 02:52:57 What modules do we need to load to access the microsSD card? Aug 04 02:54:12 sagacis: none Aug 04 02:54:19 should already be in /media/card Aug 04 02:54:22 try df -h Aug 04 02:54:27 can anyone point me to how to load modules into the neo Aug 04 02:54:29 and see whether its mounted Aug 04 02:54:31 Grrr. I flashed to a new kernel and the device isn't there Aug 04 02:54:38 lsmod shows NO modules loaded Aug 04 02:54:45 It's not mounted Aug 04 02:54:48 No driver Aug 04 02:54:52 sagacis: oh my bad sorry Aug 04 02:55:01 No problem Aug 04 02:55:05 sagacis: did you use default kernel config Aug 04 02:55:18 anthony_: what module/s are you wanting Aug 04 02:55:50 I'm using ipkg to load them, but it doesn't seem to link dependencies... Aug 04 02:56:33 uhh i downloaded modules-2.6.21.6-moko11-moko11-r1_0_0_2388_0-fic-gta01.tgz .... not quite sure what they do someone like 2 -3 hours ago said it was a good one Aug 04 02:56:50 Found it: kernel-module-s3cmci Aug 04 02:57:15 That's the one I'm using Aug 04 02:57:48 where is the moko11 stuff? Aug 04 02:58:19 i have no clue... Aug 04 02:58:31 Lotsa places. You should be able to install from ipkg (although I flashed the .bin) Aug 04 02:58:58 http://buildhost.openmoko.org/tmp/deploy/images/ Aug 04 02:59:00 oh ok so there are no built moko11's Aug 04 02:59:34 sagacis you were telling me that? Aug 04 02:59:41 ah i see thanks anthony_ **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat Aug 04 02:59:56 2007