**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Aug 07 02:59:57 2007 Aug 07 03:00:17 the video is from the RL...avi with no preprocessing; if you allow preprocessing to prerotate i think fullscreen qvga is doable Aug 07 03:00:36 video is cropped to 240x240 to fit the mode in this case Aug 07 03:00:41 on the neo Aug 07 03:01:49 last pic is with the "wrong" timings Aug 07 03:02:36 anrp: Well - 90% of 'vcd' rate mpeg1s I have play just fine with -framedrop Aug 07 03:02:50 framedrop is ~_~ though Aug 07 03:03:09 In most cases it's dropping only the very occasional frame though Aug 07 03:03:13 Ok... Aug 07 03:03:23 I'm having problems connecting to GPRS. Aug 07 03:03:27 It _used_ to work. Aug 07 03:03:41 I have powered down and up the phone - and pulled battery. Aug 07 03:03:46 at+cgdcont=1,"ip","general.t-mobile.uk","0.0.0.0",0,0' Aug 07 03:03:47 ERROR Aug 07 03:03:51 ... Aug 07 03:04:00 And I've no clue where to go from here. Aug 07 03:04:15 The modem can make calls with atd Aug 07 03:04:18 the ever-useful 'ERROR'! Aug 07 03:04:31 something's broke; now, let's play a guessing game! Aug 07 03:04:37 mm Aug 07 03:04:48 hm, maybe just the pixelclock is wrong Aug 07 03:07:12 ahh too fast pixclk causes flickering Aug 07 03:07:30 and smearing Aug 07 03:07:39 er too slow causes smearing Aug 07 03:12:05 anrp: Excellent work Aug 07 03:13:06 I've always though neo's coat was a little rubbery in that fight sequence. Aug 07 03:13:12 SpeedEvil: What do you get from at_cgdcont? Aug 07 03:13:31 s/_/+ Aug 07 03:13:33 +CGDCONT: (1-2),"IP",,,(0),(0,1) Aug 07 03:14:55 is there much of a delay after you issue the set command? Aug 07 03:15:00 at+CGDCONT? Aug 07 03:15:00 +CGDCONT: 1,"IP","general.t-mobile.uk","0.0.0.0",0,0 Aug 07 03:15:07 hmm Aug 07 03:15:20 looks to me like you're set. Aug 07 03:15:29 what happens when you dial with pdp context 1 Aug 07 03:15:40 how? Aug 07 03:16:45 it's a dial string, wait one I'll look it up Aug 07 03:16:50 tATDT*99***1# ? Aug 07 03:17:04 ATDT*99***1# Aug 07 03:17:04 ERROR Aug 07 03:17:30 sounds right Aug 07 03:17:38 but let me look it up to be sure Aug 07 03:17:48 that's pulled from the connect script Aug 07 03:17:54 which _was_ working. Aug 07 03:18:04 did the connect script set the context Aug 07 03:18:25 and are you sure it was IP and not PPP Aug 07 03:18:59 It turns the modem off in hardware, does atz, ate0, at+cfun=1, at+cops, at+cgdco... atdt Aug 07 03:19:11 It was Aug 07 03:19:16 I could of course try ppp Aug 07 03:19:43 'error' Aug 07 03:19:59 hmm Aug 07 03:20:00 does it come back immediately or with some delay Aug 07 03:20:03 at+cgdcont=1,"ppp","general.t-mobile.uk" Aug 07 03:20:06 give ok Aug 07 03:20:13 immediately. Aug 07 03:20:35 huh Aug 07 03:20:44 its flickering because i'm looking at the wrong buffer ?? Aug 07 03:20:46 * anrp curious Aug 07 03:21:28 what application are you connecting with Aug 07 03:22:01 pppd file /etc/ppp/gprs Aug 07 03:22:29 man... i've been f*ing building every package in OE for the last like 4 days.... Aug 07 03:22:33 this is insane.... Aug 07 03:22:53 i think i'm going to have to get my work machine setup doing this when i'm not there Aug 07 03:22:55 :) Aug 07 03:23:15 dual opterons with 2gb ram should be much better than P4mobile 1.6 with 2gb ram Aug 07 03:23:22 hell i could even thread it Aug 07 03:23:37 hmm... maybe not thread it.... Aug 07 03:25:16 and at 6734 packages built... it's still only 716 mb Aug 07 03:25:40 BryceLeo: just don't add your own package Aug 07 03:25:50 when i did that, bitbake decided it was time to rebuild everything Aug 07 03:26:26 anrp: ??... my bitbake doesn't do that.... how did you add your package? Aug 07 03:26:45 added a directory, added a .bb Aug 07 03:26:46 i wrote a script to source the OE directory and bitbake every foldername which thankfuly corresponds to an app name Aug 07 03:26:52 then tried to bitbake it Aug 07 03:26:56 anrp: ahhh, setup a local overlay Aug 07 03:27:07 anrp: check out http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Application_Development_Crash_Course Aug 07 03:27:09 why would it rebuild everything though? Aug 07 03:27:39 * anrp classifies that as broken-by-design Aug 07 03:27:57 anrp: probably because you modified the offical OE tree where your package doesn't actually belong Aug 07 03:28:28 D: Aug 07 03:28:32 * anrp was a bad boy D: Aug 07 03:28:39 still, though... Aug 07 03:29:03 you should have your own package in a local overlay so that bitbake pulls from your repo setup first then goes down to OE's default. Like the current OpenMoko is actually an OE overlay. Soon though with the release of 2007.2 it'll prettymuch just be a bb recipe Aug 07 03:29:38 now why does my actual framebuffer point off the screen? Aug 07 03:29:40 anrp: what would you prefer to use other than OE? Aug 07 03:29:49 anrp: that i couldn't tell ya Aug 07 03:30:13 anrp: i really don't know the other tools out there Aug 07 03:30:25 i'm personally partial to uclibc, but i don't think this is the right application for it Aug 07 03:30:32 well uclibc/buildroot Aug 07 03:30:39 you can still build agains uclibc for your OE apps Aug 07 03:30:44 * anrp idea Aug 07 03:30:56 idea? Aug 07 03:32:08 i bet the framebuffer pointer is wrong Aug 07 03:32:15 since i'm looking at the lower left corner of the screen Aug 07 03:32:19 SpeedEvil: what do you get from +CGREG? Aug 07 03:32:22 but the kernel is writing to the upper left corner Aug 07 03:32:48 since i can see the last line of the actual screen on the top of mine Aug 07 03:34:03 at+CGREG? Aug 07 03:34:03 +CGREG: 0,0 Aug 07 03:35:40 means you're not registered Aug 07 03:35:52 hang on Aug 07 03:36:11 you mwan with the network? Aug 07 03:36:16 yeah Aug 07 03:37:51 I can make calls. Aug 07 03:38:04 have you attached to the gprs service? Aug 07 03:38:14 try +CGATT? Aug 07 03:38:17 You mean atd? Aug 07 03:38:28 yes AT+CGATT? Aug 07 03:38:31 This is after running the failing gprs script Aug 07 03:38:42 AT+CGATT? Aug 07 03:38:42 +CGATT: 0 Aug 07 03:38:48 before, except i think the script reset may be problematic Aug 07 03:38:55 so you're not attached. Aug 07 03:39:02 try AT+CGATT=1 Aug 07 03:39:22 thinks and comes back Aug 07 03:39:34 at+cgreg? Aug 07 03:39:35 +CGREG: 0,1 Aug 07 03:40:21 and what from AT+CGATT? Aug 07 03:40:47 1 Aug 07 03:40:59 should be good to go for context activation - Aug 07 03:41:18 ok - I'm trying inserting that in the script before the APN setting/... Aug 07 03:42:15 time to rethink ppp vs. ip - which one worked before Aug 07 03:42:20 yes Aug 07 03:42:22 ip Aug 07 03:42:25 I changes that back Aug 07 03:42:26 when it switches to data mode this will matter Aug 07 03:42:45 if its not ppp i don't know how your ip and dns get set Aug 07 03:44:21 Well - 'ip' worked before Aug 07 03:44:44 always best to try first what worked before Aug 07 03:45:07 biggest problems I've ever had were trying to figure out why something that shouldn't work actually did work Aug 07 03:45:37 is the machine you are using online to the Internet Aug 07 03:45:40 Yeah. Aug 07 03:45:50 it probably resolves dns through the other connection Aug 07 03:45:52 http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/openup/openmoko-developer-preview-kit-unboxing-wow-thats-a-lot-of-stuff-286443.php Aug 07 03:46:01 I added DNS servers manually Aug 07 03:46:27 are you routing manually Aug 07 03:46:45 I just added the default route to ppp0 Aug 07 03:50:28 at+cgatt=1 should be before or after the +cgdccont? Aug 07 03:51:07 Ok Aug 07 03:51:16 I get stuff on doing atdt... that looks pppish Aug 07 03:51:25 so it's a script problem now Aug 07 03:51:39 Many thanks! Aug 07 03:51:49 np Aug 07 04:09:32 maybe its just me, but looking at the datasheet it seems like LCDSADDR is getting setyup completely wrong... Aug 07 04:10:10 * anrp continues to read Aug 07 04:11:34 no...wait. hmm.. Aug 07 04:13:01 * anrp takes that back Aug 07 04:15:44 sorry I had to leave earlier... anyway, is there a usable 240x320 display theme? Aug 07 04:16:00 I downloaded one (a patch from bugzilla) but I don't think it's taken effect. Aug 07 04:17:53 i have a completely broken Xfbdev right now, i'm just prodding the hardware Aug 07 04:37:21 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[P1_Owners]] [[User:Writchie]] [[MacOS_X]] Aug 07 04:38:44 SpeedEvil: Aug 07 04:38:53 have you played with the charge? Aug 07 04:39:28 i have 2 devices that we took to a show. Turned them off. Now batteries completely dead Aug 07 04:39:48 I have never seem them take any more than 40ma when off Aug 07 04:40:30 i remember also from first time that it took several hours of charge at 40ma before they would last long enough to boot Aug 07 04:41:38 'off' as picked by the power menu, leaves the modem on. Aug 07 04:41:46 this will drain the battery in a day or so. Aug 07 04:41:51 or two Aug 07 04:41:52 that explains it. Aug 07 04:41:58 maybe other stuff too. Aug 07 04:42:06 It has a baseline of 30mA draw from the battery. Aug 07 04:42:20 have you seen a slow charger over 50ma Aug 07 04:42:26 s/charger/charge Aug 07 04:42:51 it seems to only draw 40-50ma - not the 100ma it could Aug 07 04:42:57 both of my two devices Aug 07 04:42:58 Indeed. Aug 07 04:43:11 that sucks - i means 24 hours Aug 07 04:43:24 if the gsm is indeed off Aug 07 04:43:39 which may explain why removing battery helps Aug 07 04:44:05 It seems that it needs to have the CPU active to turn on fast charge mode. Aug 07 04:44:16 it also seems that even if you get it running it won't fast charge unless battery is over a certain voltage Aug 07 04:44:20 u-boot, and entering 'fast-charge mode' Aug 07 04:44:31 it takes 500mA or so. Aug 07 04:44:44 but then if you turn it off, it will still take 500mA Aug 07 04:44:47 i don't think it will do this unless the voltage > n Aug 07 04:44:54 but unplug and replug in that condition, and it's back to 40mA Aug 07 04:45:31 how did you get u-boot into fast charge mode Aug 07 04:45:45 Look on the 'bootloader' page Aug 07 04:45:47 on the wiki Aug 07 04:46:55 doesn't work, it won't enumerate Aug 07 04:47:09 seems to need battery up to enough voltage first Aug 07 04:47:28 The CPU has to be running to enumerate Aug 07 04:52:22 moin Aug 07 04:52:31 Moin. Aug 07 04:52:48 mooo. Aug 07 04:52:52 moornijng Aug 07 04:52:55 i just got the cc charged email! Aug 07 04:53:06 I got it last saturday Aug 07 04:53:20 xkr47: you have your phone? Aug 07 04:53:30 * xkr47 serves some drinks to ferric for celebriting purposes Aug 07 04:53:38 no, just charged so far Aug 07 04:53:47 I mean "charged email" Aug 07 04:54:04 cheers! Aug 07 04:54:10 cheers :) Aug 07 04:54:11 ah, I see. Aug 07 04:54:30 I wonder if they'll ship next week. Aug 07 05:08:25 are they taking that long to ship from chargedate? Aug 07 05:08:32 i just got charged last night... Aug 07 05:09:01 telconta1, check the P1_Owners page on the wiki to get a clue Aug 07 05:09:57 hm, OE fails at u_boot, because of cramfs. seems to be known, is there a solution? Aug 07 05:10:44 lol ouch..thanks for the pointer Aug 07 05:13:53 np :) Aug 07 05:14:51 telconta1: i think the shipment date is mid-aug Aug 07 05:23:19 /Writchie|zzzZZZzz Aug 07 05:52:22 I'm having trouble loading GTK stock icons, is there a package i need to install for that? Aug 07 06:37:41 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[OpenMoko_Local_Groups:_Helsinki]] Aug 07 06:38:42 Wooh! UPS will hand me the phone in about 2 hours.. :D Aug 07 06:48:39 * ScaredyCat makes an urgent phone call to UPS about diverting a delivery Aug 07 06:50:09 ScaredyCat: Same as I did, getting it to work now Aug 07 06:50:37 thanks, now I know where to intercept :) Aug 07 06:50:49 I have mine.... I'm after yours too :D Aug 07 06:51:08 ScaredyCat: :-P Aug 07 06:52:13 who was having battery problems? Aug 07 06:53:05 my neo is fine after being on all noght Aug 07 06:53:16 s/noght/night Aug 07 06:53:36 without beeing plugged to usb? :) Aug 07 06:53:50 hi gusy! am i thinking wrong that my copy of gllin is broken or this should behave like this: http://pastebin.com/m3db2692c Aug 07 06:54:10 s/gusy/guys ;) Aug 07 06:54:37 thomasg : yes Aug 07 06:54:51 I've just plugged it in to ssh to it Aug 07 06:55:38 cayco: what makes you think that's broken? Aug 07 06:55:47 have you tried the script at http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GPS ? Aug 07 06:55:55 CM: congrats! Aug 07 06:56:11 rwhitby: it seems that it exit but i was trying to put it in interactive mode Aug 07 06:56:40 ferric: Thanks :D Ordered it early, but only got back from vacation yesterday Aug 07 06:57:00 CM: i just got my cc charged email, too. Aug 07 06:57:08 assuming the phones ship next week Aug 07 06:57:10 rwhitby: yes I tried that, it kinda works but to me (and other GPS programs it looks like there is no fix) Aug 07 06:57:26 cayco: do we know that there is a working interactive mode? Aug 07 06:57:41 cayco: are you getting nmea lines coming out of it? Aug 07 06:58:03 if so, take it outside and wait for a while, until you see 'FIX' in one of the nmea lines Aug 07 06:58:04 there's no parameter i ; look at the outhput Aug 07 06:58:14 rwhitby: for example my data is: $GPGGA,064015.00,,,,,00,00,5.0,,M,-0.018112,M,0.0020540,*40 but someonelses data is $GPGGA,230649.00,3716.307825,N,12156.791167,W,1,07,0.5,040.0,M,-0.537000 Aug 07 06:58:15 ,M,0.0130515,0130*77 Aug 07 06:58:22 rwhitby: Slightly silly, but did I add your info correctly? Any scratches on it? http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973_Robustness Aug 07 06:58:34 rwhitby: mine has many ,,,, in it, so i assume this is null data... Aug 07 06:58:44 cayco: are you sure it has a fix yet? Aug 07 06:59:57 rwhitby: i do knot know, i left it for night to dump much gps data but there was no usable GPGGA data. I also do not have this GUI program to check other things... Aug 07 07:00:12 rwhitby: ehhh, it;s like walking in the fog :) Aug 07 07:00:12 ScaredyCat: how did you do that? powermanagement activated? Aug 07 07:00:18 cayco: inside of building it is hard to get good fix Aug 07 07:00:30 cayco: here I can get 1-2 satellites only Aug 07 07:00:34 Take it outside. Aug 07 07:00:37 thomasg: no... I just left it on. Aug 07 07:00:39 At least to lock. Aug 07 07:00:41 hrw: they got ifx on Youtube movie ;) Aug 07 07:00:44 awsome Aug 07 07:01:03 it didn't work more than 3 hours for me Aug 07 07:01:10 once it's got lock, it can get position inside - sometimes. Aug 07 07:01:19 when I got it I plugged it into my laptop and left it plugged in for a day Aug 07 07:01:30 CM: I updated it Aug 07 07:01:49 rwhitby: Thanks :) Aug 07 07:02:03 hrw: i'll try that, but could someone possibly send me that GUI app so I could check sattelites and all? (for testing purposes only) Aug 07 07:02:16 cayco: which GUI app? Aug 07 07:02:27 thomasg: I'm just about to install the power logging scripts Aug 07 07:02:51 cayco: read about NMEA please Aug 07 07:02:54 rwhitby: i thought there was GUI app for gllin... Aug 07 07:03:18 uboot fixed yet? Aug 07 07:03:20 rwhitby: I saw it on youtube Aug 07 07:03:48 cayco: I was using Maemo Mapper on my n800 via BT Aug 07 07:04:36 hrw: ok i will, i jsut can't wait to make it work ;) Aug 07 07:04:53 cayco: then take it outside so it can get a fix Aug 07 07:05:28 rwhitby: ok, hope it helps, thx ! Aug 07 07:05:39 so, i finally got internet working on my neo, the browser likes to crash with any site that uses flash Aug 07 07:05:39 lol Aug 07 07:08:22 daMaestro: I just checked out the newest OE and running bb openmoko-devel-image now. I'll tell you if it works now Aug 07 07:08:46 thomasg, thanks Aug 07 07:08:49 i can do the same too Aug 07 07:08:52 building OE really takes years -.- Aug 07 07:09:02 oh, i've just been updating Aug 07 07:09:11 I need one of this dualcore machines, I guess :) Aug 07 07:09:14 the first build took me ~15 hours Aug 07 07:09:45 i've got a dual core 3.2GHz ... at it still too that long Aug 07 07:09:53 though, i'm running the build sys in a kvm Aug 07 07:09:58 (kernel virtual machine) Aug 07 07:11:46 1,8 ghz singlecore here Aug 07 07:12:20 daMaestro: How much ram for the kvm? Aug 07 07:12:30 CM 1GB Aug 07 07:12:43 as much as I have in my whole machine ^^ Aug 07 07:12:49 Ok. Takes about 7.5h for me to build from scratch Aug 07 07:12:57 i've actually only given it once processor.. so i dunno Aug 07 07:13:02 CM: hardware? Aug 07 07:13:15 Native, 64-bit gentoo on a 2GHz old amd64 300+ with 1gb ram Aug 07 07:13:23 300+ :) Aug 07 07:13:31 :P +0 Aug 07 07:13:39 <- 64bit gentoo, 1,8ghz old 3000+, 1 gb ram :) Aug 07 07:13:50 CM http://smolt.fedoraproject.org/show?UUID=48639b59-b11b-44c6-ba45-c7a972b6cc1b Aug 07 07:13:55 thomasg, ^ too Aug 07 07:14:01 that's not too old Aug 07 07:14:12 xkr47: Over 3 years Aug 07 07:14:24 * xkr47 has 2.2GHz Aug 07 07:14:24 March 2004 I think Aug 07 07:14:32 do you use bitbake and so on from OE or the gentoo version (stable/~arch)? Aug 07 07:14:34 it took 308 minutes on my dual Xeon 2.4ghz 2gb ram Aug 07 07:14:40 thomasg, latest OE did not work in qemu for me. Aug 07 07:14:51 thomasg: ~amd64 bitbake Aug 07 07:14:58 ok, the same for me Aug 07 07:15:03 :) Aug 07 07:15:06 seems to be the best way (imho) Aug 07 07:15:37 what a pitty that psyco is not available at amd64 :( Aug 07 07:15:53 yeah, i was told to run the guest x86 ... so... Aug 07 07:16:05 NOTE: Running task 1170 of 3502 <- current state Aug 07 07:16:20 * daMaestro fires off an update build Aug 07 07:16:24 * daMaestro is using mokomakefile Aug 07 07:17:03 what distro is best supported for openmoko building atm ? Aug 07 07:17:10 * xkr47 is thinking of running a chroot Aug 07 07:17:21 i've got most things packaged for fedora right now Aug 07 07:17:21 there's a chroot dl Aug 07 07:17:29 but they are not in the repos yet Aug 07 07:17:34 ScaredyCat, oh nice, where ? Aug 07 07:17:37 still working on some patches (cleaning them up) Aug 07 07:17:41 errmm... Aug 07 07:17:44 * ScaredyCat looks Aug 07 07:17:47 debian is told to be debian-focused - don't know if this is true Aug 07 07:17:49 erm Aug 07 07:17:52 openembedded I mean Aug 07 07:18:01 * xkr47 iowaits Aug 07 07:18:23 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Test_Openmoko_Emulation_with_chroot_image Aug 07 07:18:31 * xkr47 bows Aug 07 07:18:44 but imho gentoo is a good choise, especially because it featuers the most needed tools in new versions Aug 07 07:19:19 * ScaredyCat doesn't hav ethe time for gentoo.. Aug 07 07:19:35 * xkr47 has gentoo but 64bit.. Aug 07 07:19:44 so I thought a 32bit chroot would be nice Aug 07 07:20:17 ScaredyCat: it's not that time wasting as it is told :) Aug 07 07:20:29 it was for me... Aug 07 07:20:35 I spend about 10 minutes the week for gentoo Aug 07 07:20:38 argh, webkit recipe in org.openembedded.dev seems to be broken :( Aug 07 07:20:44 Gentoo builds OE just fine Aug 07 07:20:52 Re-installing from scratch is a bit of a pain, I admit Aug 07 07:20:52 I can't sit around without my laptop for 3 days while everyhting gets built :( Aug 07 07:20:57 hehe Aug 07 07:21:08 NOTE: package webkit-0.0+svn20070807-r1: task do_compile: failed Aug 07 07:21:11 I do updates one time the week (while I sleep) Aug 07 07:21:23 you sleep? pfft Aug 07 07:21:24 mkdir -p ${S}/WebKitBuilds/Debug/JavaScriptCore/pcre/tmp/ Aug 07 07:21:24 cd ${S}/JavaScriptCore/pcre Aug 07 07:21:26 ScaredyCat: I had a 300mhz old dell laprop with 128m ram running gentoo Aug 07 07:21:26 * rushforth did the gentoo thing until discovering arch :) Aug 07 07:21:39 the cd command fails Aug 07 07:21:51 how many weeks did it take to get installed CM ? Aug 07 07:21:51 I tried arch, but it simply wasn't "my" distro Aug 07 07:22:00 arch, gentoo, without the advantages Aug 07 07:22:18 pkgbuild > ebuild (imo) Aug 07 07:22:24 emo Aug 07 07:22:28 ScaredyCat: It took about 1 week to compile system and basic X and Fluxbox Aug 07 07:22:47 ScaredyCat: the gentoo install on my thinkpad (p3 1.1 ghz, 640 mb ram) including X and e17 took about 6 hours Aug 07 07:22:58 hopefully you have some other pc to use too CM Aug 07 07:23:30 I had a 700mhz R41 Aug 07 07:23:30 ScaredyCat: A few :) Aug 07 07:23:46 since the gentoo way is stage3 instead of stage1 now, it's much faster than it was in past :) Aug 07 07:24:06 thomasg: especially with -OMG switch to gcc? Aug 07 07:24:30 http://www.htctouch.com/ ... just so everyone knows Aug 07 07:24:31 ^^ Aug 07 07:24:31 well, isn't the point that you build it *all* from source :) Aug 07 07:24:39 ScaredyCat: The old laptop worked great btw. Running Fluxbox, 2 terminals, took about 26mb ram total Aug 07 07:25:00 So ffox could suck the other 102.. Aug 07 07:25:02 I like my debian boxes Aug 07 07:25:14 I have one, a nslu2 :) Aug 07 07:25:18 CM: I hate firefox, even on my thinkpad it really sucks Aug 07 07:25:31 * Dmitry_Platonov has dual Xeon 5160 (3Hz, 2 cores each = 4 cores total), so Gentoo is not a problem Aug 07 07:25:37 so I still hope for a good webkit based one Aug 07 07:25:44 s/3Hz/3GHz/ Aug 07 07:25:53 yeah, firefox is getting just as bad as ie now Aug 07 07:26:00 thomasg: Epiphany? Aug 07 07:26:00 xkr47: my nslu2 runs openslug Aug 07 07:26:06 not that I've used ie in 10 years :P Aug 07 07:26:11 CM: I'm not a gnome-user Aug 07 07:26:29 ScaredyCat: I'm sitting at a windows machine right now Aug 07 07:26:32 CM: I suppose I should have used distcc or somehting Aug 07 07:26:35 with 3 IE windows opened :) Aug 07 07:26:39 we had better get the damn cube Aug 07 07:26:53 here's hoping: http://live.gnome.org/Epiphany/WebKit Aug 07 07:26:54 really.. everyone look at http://www.htctouch.com/ (tmobiles answer to the iphone) Aug 07 07:27:00 thomasg: zomg! you mean it supports more than one window ;) Aug 07 07:27:09 well, not really :) Aug 07 07:27:09 ScaredyCat: I did, but it wasn't working so well with my 64-bit Aug 07 07:27:13 more inofficially Aug 07 07:27:24 CM: :/ Aug 07 07:27:28 ScaredyCat: Easier to just leave it under the sofa compiling for a week Aug 07 07:27:29 you can open more than window, but you can't use it, because the windowmanager is totally fucked up Aug 07 07:27:34 xkr47: I test MokoMakefile on Debian Etch and CentOS 4. Aug 07 07:27:38 lol Aug 07 07:27:42 @ both Aug 07 07:28:20 rwhitby, ok, but I guess they weren't running on a nslu2 ?-) Aug 07 07:28:32 there's only 1 windows machine in this house... and it's for my wife.. Aug 07 07:28:45 I don; think she's ready for linux... Aug 07 07:28:50 I have a windoze for gameplay Aug 07 07:28:54 linux certainly isn;t ready for her Aug 07 07:29:09 my wife runs ubuntu :) Aug 07 07:29:22 put a firefox link on the desktop, let her have at it Aug 07 07:29:45 xkr47: I have built openembedded on an nslu2 running slugos before. Aug 07 07:29:57 personally I don't have windows - but in my company I have to use it Aug 07 07:30:00 and could easily do so on one running debian etch for that matter. Aug 07 07:30:10 rwhitby, ok :) Aug 07 07:30:16 thomasg, i still get the uboot issue: Aug 07 07:30:18 | Applying patch patches/uboot-cramfs_but_no_jffs2.patch Aug 07 07:30:18 | patching file fs/cramfs/cramfs.c Aug 07 07:30:18 | Hunk #1 FAILED at 27. Aug 07 07:30:18 | 1 out of 1 hunk FAILED -- rejects in file fs/cramfs/cramfs.c Aug 07 07:30:21 I tried testing it out on her, she liked majong so I set it up so she should start up an X session on he windoes box.. Aug 07 07:30:32 daMaestro: I had the same error before some hours Aug 07 07:30:34 ScaredyCat, :D Aug 07 07:30:39 I caught her playing under windows.... Aug 07 07:30:41 I updated my org.oe.dev-tree and now it seems to work Aug 07 07:31:03 thomasg, any reason why mokomakefile would have not done that for me? Aug 07 07:31:15 make update-makefile && make update setup openmoko-devel-image is what i've run Aug 07 07:31:19 erm, mokomakefile uses an overlay Aug 07 07:31:33 it's not the blank org.oe.dev-tree, so I don't know Aug 07 07:31:47 thomasg, so how do i do the update? Aug 07 07:32:18 you can try going into the openembedded dir and do a mtn pull && mtn update Aug 07 07:32:35 thanks, doing so now Aug 07 07:32:39 but I don't know if this is the best way, as it doesn't use the mokomakefile Aug 07 07:32:54 maybe rwhitby (*hilight*!) can help :) Aug 07 07:33:31 NOTE: Running task 1228 of 3502 (ID: 2437, /home/moko/stuff/org.openembedded.dev/packages/uboot/uboot-openmoko_svn.bb, do_compile) Aug 07 07:34:23 I'm going to get a coffee :) Aug 07 07:35:02 i've had little time to learn bitbake and all of the build tools Aug 07 07:35:08 so mokomakefile has been in use for me Aug 07 07:40:15 I hate the coffee-rule in my office. the one who gets the last cup has to make new. I'm always the last... :) Aug 07 07:40:59 heh, it seems the webkit failed to build (atleast it build further now) because the day changed during the build and the directory name changed because it used SRCDATE Aug 07 07:41:01 same at our office :) Aug 07 07:41:16 thomasg: Maybe you have a huge 1-litre mug? :D Aug 07 07:41:20 lol Hadaka Aug 07 07:41:21 (script) openmoko-community: Harald Welte Neo1973 Phase 1 sales / order process / misconception Aug 07 07:41:29 CM I have, but not at office :) Aug 07 07:41:46 hi ! Aug 07 07:42:35 in my car I have a 0.75l heat-saving mug - it probably saved my life more than one time :) Aug 07 07:42:46 hi leppoc Aug 07 07:43:06 how is everything going ? Aug 07 07:44:11 I have a problem with my pixmaps under Xnest... Aug 07 07:44:14 thomasg, i get "mtn: help required for 3-way merge" Aug 07 07:44:26 daMaestro: sry, can't help :) Aug 07 07:44:33 I have tried everything under http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Getting_OpenMoko_working_on_host_with_Xoo#Set_your_theme_to_OpenMoko, without success... Aug 07 07:44:39 I can tell you not to use nano, better use vim ^^ Aug 07 07:44:50 but how you should merge the files: don't really know Aug 07 07:45:10 lol thomasg, on the phone ? vim ? Aug 07 07:45:41 yes, therese vi on the phone Aug 07 07:45:51 but no, we are talking of the build environment Aug 07 07:46:18 thomasg, yeah.. it brings up vim.. but i have no idea what to merge Aug 07 07:46:20 yes I know, but it's funny for something meant to be used only with a keyboard ;) I am a vim user btw :) Aug 07 07:46:31 ok :) Aug 07 07:47:06 daMaestro: on the left side are the merged files, in mid the new and at right side the old file. I THINK (don't know), that you have to save the merge to the right file Aug 07 07:47:44 thomasg, thanks. i read that also, but i'm not able to deal with it tonight Aug 07 07:47:52 it's almost 2am and i'm still working on other $work stuff Aug 07 07:47:57 hehe Aug 07 07:48:04 its about 10am here Aug 07 07:48:13 2am. where do you live ? Aug 07 07:48:24 3:48 for me :D Aug 07 07:48:28 denver, co Aug 07 07:48:47 My Neo! I have it!!! Aug 07 07:48:53 me too :) Aug 07 07:48:56 yeaaaaaaaahhhh Aug 07 07:48:59 but for a week now :) Aug 07 07:49:20 oh yeah, anyone else get billed twice? Aug 07 07:49:32 we had no problem at all Aug 07 07:49:39 worked all perfectly for us Aug 07 07:50:28 no idea about my problem guys ? Aug 07 07:51:02 will ups accept CC to pay VAT at my door? Aug 07 07:52:16 jeddy3: I think so yes, but I am not sure. I mean, you can pay a chipping with your CC, so why not... Aug 07 07:52:24 jeddy3: I'm not sure, too, but I think so Aug 07 07:52:41 leppoc, thomasg, yeah i suspect so also Aug 07 07:53:31 just thought it would be a bummer when they arrive in two hours, and i had no means of paying :) Aug 07 07:53:48 ha ha ! two hours ! nice :D Aug 07 07:54:27 leppoc, indeed :) Aug 07 07:55:34 I wish the next two month could be as two hours :) (and then go back in time, not to get too old too fast...) Aug 07 07:56:02 hm, it really seems that the openembedded guys fixed the uboot problem. 1339 of 3502 now :) Aug 07 07:56:11 leppoc, :D Aug 07 07:57:23 I should create a t-shirt with "P1-Owner" printed on it :) Aug 07 07:57:48 but I fear that could cost your life on the streets ^^ Aug 07 07:58:12 fyi, Neo1973 Base, Orange, RT#1872 has been shipped. Aug 07 07:58:48 jeddy3: they demanded cash here, in the Netherlands. But we're not that fond of CCs as, say, the USA. Aug 07 07:59:40 what's latest known #RT ? Aug 07 08:00:29 Kero, aah, good to know...they should accept CC here (sweden) as it's kindoff primary payment means nowadays...but maybe i'll go to an ATM just in case Aug 07 08:02:01 Kero: iirc they also offer to take your bank details... Aug 07 08:02:14 .. but I thik you'd need to be insane Aug 07 08:02:55 ynezz, check P1_Owners Aug 07 08:02:59 @ wiki Aug 07 08:03:02 * daMaestro wanders off to zzZZzZzz Aug 07 08:04:47 will the last 2000 openembbed tasks be handeled faster then the first 1000? Aug 07 08:05:08 otherwise it will at least the the rest of this day (10am now) Aug 07 08:05:24 s/will/will take Aug 07 08:05:44 thomasg, NOTE: Running task 3492 of 3522 Aug 07 08:08:06 harold appears to have missed the point of the complaints also... Aug 07 08:08:18 harald even Aug 07 08:08:32 ok, good night/morning/day/whatever ;) I am going to sleep :) Aug 07 08:08:37 Dmitry_Platonov: bastard!!! :P Aug 07 08:08:48 n8 leppoc_ Aug 07 08:09:25 Dmitry_Platonov: when did you have the last error/segfault/problem? Aug 07 08:10:53 * Dmitry_Platonov has broken ebuilds once a month ^_^ Aug 07 08:11:02 hm, I never have Aug 07 08:11:09 but I meant in openembedded :) Aug 07 08:11:45 thomasg, it's not fresh build - just update Aug 07 08:11:48 in the first 1000 tasks I've had 5 errors (1 bug, 4 problems I could fix) and 1 segfault Aug 07 08:12:20 I really hope to get this finished today Aug 07 08:13:19 I had like 2 problems - mostly with downloading. No segfaults ever. Aug 07 08:13:53 2 problems today. 3-4 every day earlier Aug 07 08:14:29 ScaredyCat: glad I'm not the only one left with that impression after reading his email. I'm afraid there was no misconception of any of those facts on my part, but it does nothing to shed light on any outstanding questions! Aug 07 08:14:45 none of my earlier images run properly in qemu :-( Aug 07 08:14:59 I fear that openembbeded will eat up the rest of the free space on my HD :) Aug 07 08:15:06 I mean, OM - OE head images. Aug 07 08:15:09 1500/3500 and 15 gb left Aug 07 08:25:35 morning Aug 07 08:25:43 moin moin Aug 07 08:32:04 Kero: Have mine too now, got it 20 minutes ago :) Aug 07 08:33:20 jeddy3: I had to pay 722 SEK cash :-/ Aug 07 08:33:45 CM, yeah :/ Aug 07 08:34:23 The Neo powers on, but not really booting. Unless it takes more than 3 minutes.. Aug 07 08:38:21 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[User_talk:Feilsky]] [[Wish_List_-_Hardware]] [[Wishlist:BuiltInScriptingLanguage]] [[P1_Owners]] [[Neo1973_GTA01_Power_Management]] [[Neo1973_Robustness]] Aug 07 08:38:48 722 SEK is about 90 EUR :/ Aug 07 08:40:29 CM, thats normal Aug 07 08:40:38 ~change 722 SEK to EUR Aug 07 08:40:44 you should get a kernel panic at beinning Aug 07 08:40:44 i got some error trying that Aug 07 08:40:54 apt: Too bad Aug 07 08:41:14 thomasg: I got that orange open moko logo, then nothing Aug 07 08:41:26 CM, 722 for what, ups handling ? Aug 07 08:41:33 xkr47: VAT Aug 07 08:41:34 well, the neo comes with only the bootloader Aug 07 08:41:52 first you have to flash your own kernel and rootfs Aug 07 08:41:53 thomasg: Do I have to hold the aux button or something? Aug 07 08:42:03 you can do that to get the bootmenu Aug 07 08:42:08 thomasg: I know that, just have to get to it :) Aug 07 08:42:10 hold the aux button, then power on Aug 07 08:42:16 ok, nice Aug 07 08:42:18 after a short vibration you will see the bootmenu Aug 07 08:42:22 I'll look at that SH1 page Aug 07 08:42:23 gt4 sure takes long to compile Aug 07 08:43:47 s/gt4/qt4 Aug 07 08:43:48 s/gt4/qt4/ Aug 07 08:43:48 Dmitry_Platonov meant: s/qt4/qt4 Aug 07 08:43:53 lol Aug 07 08:44:10 haha Aug 07 08:47:24 1700 of 3502 Aug 07 08:51:08 who wants qt on a neo? use greenphone instead.... :/ Aug 07 08:51:16 thomasg, webkit does not builds for me :-/ Aug 07 08:52:12 mdt: incorrect... Aug 07 08:52:34 ScaredyCat, why? :D Aug 07 08:52:42 who wants a green phone. Aug 07 08:52:48 :) Aug 07 08:53:03 ScaredyCat, oh, the greenphone itsself isn't that bad.... Aug 07 08:53:25 no,no... it's *green* Aug 07 08:53:31 ScaredyCat, i have one left over since my neo arived... :D Aug 07 08:53:38 ScaredyCat, you can paint it easily Aug 07 08:53:48 hhehe Aug 07 08:53:50 ScaredyCat: insane for giving UPS bank details? Aug 07 08:53:56 thomasg: ping Aug 07 08:53:59 LarstiQ: yes Aug 07 08:54:11 * LarstiQ doesn't see why that would be? Aug 07 08:54:21 would you give an underpaid person your full bank details? Aug 07 08:54:55 I wouldn't hand it to the person at the door, and all they need is my giro number Aug 07 08:55:05 ScaredyCat: whats up? *pong* Aug 07 08:55:08 perhaps a signature :) Aug 07 08:55:27 that power logging script Aug 07 08:55:32 never use it Aug 07 08:55:33 ever Aug 07 08:55:44 hehe Aug 07 08:55:49 what happened? Aug 07 08:56:13 it drained my battery in <1 hour and now the phone wont boot Aug 07 08:57:51 don't worry Aug 07 08:58:14 if the battery is discharged, you have to charge and wait 5-10 minutes until you can boot again Aug 07 08:58:18 Probably needs to charge for a bit. Aug 07 08:58:22 if you have a non-bootable phase1 neo, you cannot do the "backing up your ROM part", right? Aug 07 08:58:51 jeddy3: I guess you need u-boot for the backup Aug 07 08:59:08 so it depends what non-bootable is for you :) Aug 07 08:59:23 thomasg, but u-boot is functional on the neos shipping now right? Aug 07 08:59:40 jeddy3: you don't need the rom backup.. Aug 07 08:59:49 ScaredyCat, how so? Aug 07 08:59:49 jeddy3: yes, it is Aug 07 09:00:02 hold the aux button, then turn the neo on Aug 07 09:00:06 you will get a boot menu there Aug 07 09:00:07 I don't really want to touch uboot unless I really have to Aug 07 09:00:12 because there's nothing on there you can't get Aug 07 09:00:16 I mean re-flash it Aug 07 09:00:19 and I'd recommend you not to flash u-boot Aug 07 09:00:23 ScaredyCat, ah ok, not even gps driver? Aug 07 09:00:33 you can do what you want with the kernel and the rootfs, but dont touch uboot Aug 07 09:00:55 if it's that facked... is having a backup going to help :) Aug 07 09:01:04 thomasg, yes of course, i was worried about the non-distributable gsp driver only Aug 07 09:01:49 I think you can get the driver. the only thing is, that it isn't opensource Aug 07 09:01:57 thomasg, ok Aug 07 09:02:04 but I haven't tried gps yet Aug 07 09:02:26 so if i don't touch uboot, everything is downloadable and can be fixed? Aug 07 09:03:20 yes Aug 07 09:03:38 u-boot is only the bootloader (and the basic flashing utility) Aug 07 09:04:04 the rest is in the kernel and on the rootfs and this can be flashed as often as the NAND-flash is able to :) Aug 07 09:04:16 Lots Aug 07 09:05:28 thomasg, yes i know, but apparently some parts could not be distributed on the internet (gps driver), thus the backup of ROM, but it looks like this is a non-issue on phase 1 Aug 07 09:06:24 I'm sure they won't use parts that may not be distributed via the internet Aug 07 09:07:01 the proprietary gps driver is a problem (that needs to be fixed), but I don't think that there are distribution problems with it Aug 07 09:13:34 jeddy3: I'm quite sure you can convince someone in here to send the blob to you if you need it ;) Aug 07 09:13:47 CM, :) Aug 07 09:14:00 Is both gta01 and gta02 usb1.1? Aug 07 09:14:42 yes Aug 07 09:15:37 Because of the samsung soc Aug 07 09:18:36 i'm using directfb on the neo. someone expiriences with that? the ts does not seem to work... Aug 07 09:19:41 CM: Finally got yours now? :) Aug 07 09:30:56 sannes: Yes, 1 hour ago. Still at work though, so no time to play yet Aug 07 09:49:34 there is a /dev/input/mice on the neo - what is that for? a ts->mouse-something? Aug 07 09:50:22 the usual linux kernel device mixing all mouse a-like events together ? Aug 07 09:50:47 it's so you can get mice to do the typing for you Aug 07 09:50:54 rxr, ah, yes, you are right... hm, x/y seems to get screwed up there... Aug 07 09:51:18 they have tiny mouse hands, so can press the right keys on the tiny keyboard Aug 07 09:51:33 ScaredyCat, a hairy little creature in my neo? :D Aug 07 09:51:47 yes, a pocket hairy thing Aug 07 09:52:00 ScaredyCat, cool Aug 07 09:52:26 it'll be the next craze, just you wait... tamagochi is so passe Aug 07 09:53:09 ScaredyCat, oh, what is that release then? GTA0m? Aug 07 09:53:24 :) Aug 07 09:54:19 it might need to be an eeeksternal upgrade... Aug 07 09:57:04 good monring Aug 07 09:58:14 hello Aug 07 10:18:20 so, I'm at qt4 in OE now, too Aug 07 10:37:21 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Hardware:Neo1973:Alternate_Cases:Removal_of_free_space]] [[Current_events]] [[Neo1973_GTA01_Power_Management]] [[Neo1973/fr]] [[Main_Page]] [[Wishlist:Least_Cost_Routing]] [[P1_Owners]] Aug 07 10:39:27 * jeddy3 iz on his table, unpacking his neo Aug 07 10:41:11 :) Aug 07 10:54:20 2013 of 3502, yeah :) Aug 07 10:54:39 it's going straight forward, until now without errors since 1180 Aug 07 11:01:16 Hi pH5! :-) Aug 07 11:01:32 yo pH5 Aug 07 11:01:34 morning guys Aug 07 11:01:52 Hi mickeyl! :) Aug 07 11:02:15 hi mickey Aug 07 11:03:46 hej mickeyl, Elrond Aug 07 11:04:12 hi TRIsoft ! Aug 07 11:04:30 pH5 - BTW: Good news: My hacky tools get something like a signal. I can do a by-hand scan for possible visible satelites. ;-) Aug 07 11:05:02 awh, terrific! Aug 07 11:05:29 :) Aug 07 11:05:47 hi SpeedEvil Aug 07 11:06:09 I'm currently targetting the power-on sequence though. I'm playing around with sleep()s there and stuff to make it more rekiable. The kernel uses another sequence than gllin. I guess, the truth is in between. ;) Aug 07 11:06:32 Elrond: did you ever manage to turn on the chip with the kernel sequence? Aug 07 11:07:29 I think so. But I quickly switched back to the one in neo1973.py (hhtrst.c based), because it was even worse with the kernel one. Aug 07 11:08:04 I'm missing why you don't simply copy gllin - it works? Aug 07 11:08:15 Anyone in for a One Neo Per Child project? Aug 07 11:08:24 At least enough to get a position - which seems what's needed. Aug 07 11:09:03 SpeedEvil - This is one of the points that confuses me. I have copied the strace from gllin quite exactly. And it does only work in 50% of the cases. Aug 07 11:09:10 ... while gllin works more often. Aug 07 11:09:45 I need to look more carefully at gllin's toiming and not only copy sleep()s. Aug 07 11:09:53 mickeyl: how much time will the last 1300 tasks in openembedded take? :) at moment it's running through without problems (the u-boot bug from yesterday has been fixed tonight it seems) Aug 07 11:10:07 odd. Aug 07 11:10:19 yes, i poinpointed the git date Aug 07 11:10:21 that fixed it Aug 07 11:10:37 anyways, depending on your machine, a full build takes ~3 hours here Aug 07 11:10:51 Inserting a 150ms sleep fixes most things for me. But that's way more than any timestamps in gllin. Aug 07 11:13:16 Hi, is there a ipkg feed with 2.6.21.6-moko10 modules? Aug 07 11:13:39 bewmoo Aug 07 11:13:44 I start to consider the decision to use the HH in the Neo an intesting one. With the HH we have more fun than just with a cooked chio giving us nmea. ;-) Aug 07 11:13:52 good morning raster Aug 07 11:14:06 mickeyl: good eviening mick :) Aug 07 11:14:08 Tyrae1 - buildhost was... now: No idea. Aug 07 11:14:15 * xkr47 bows before mickeyl Aug 07 11:14:19 mickeyl: btw - u know uboot build + patches are broken right now? :) Aug 07 11:14:43 Elrond: I found this: http://www.angstrom-distribution.org/unstable/feed/armv4t/machine/fic-gta01/ Aug 07 11:14:50 hmmh Aug 07 11:15:00 but is only to 2.6.21.5 Aug 07 11:15:30 raster: yes, thanks. Aug 07 11:15:38 I built a OM2007.2 image - but my image is 40 megabytes, instead of the 28 or so that I've seen elsewhere - I wonder what am I doing wrong... Aug 07 11:15:40 :) Aug 07 11:15:45 it's in our OE snapshot. I've been working on org.oe.dev since a while Aug 07 11:15:54 and we're close to deprecating the OE snapshot officially Aug 07 11:16:08 aaah ok Aug 07 11:16:12 I'll try to fix it anyways when i have a chance Aug 07 11:16:17 i was going to set up some cvs efl builds Aug 07 11:16:27 well ones that work off dev cvs Aug 07 11:16:27 I did it all for you Aug 07 11:16:33 or just work off my local checked out tree Aug 07 11:16:46 i guess anoncvs would be ok Aug 07 11:16:50 when I knew [censored] I added all EFL to CVS :) Aug 07 11:16:52 including e17 too? Aug 07 11:16:59 yes, e17 should be there as well Aug 07 11:17:03 aaah cool Aug 07 11:17:12 if not as cvs, it's one file to change Aug 07 11:17:17 i screwed my oe builds several times with my Ld_LIBRARY_PATH Aug 07 11:17:19 MAKEFLAGS Aug 07 11:17:20 MAKE Aug 07 11:17:22 etc. Aug 07 11:17:30 always something doesnt like my make -j 4 :) Aug 07 11:17:42 hehe, yeah. OE is finnicky when it comes to overloading vars Aug 07 11:18:03 yeah Aug 07 11:18:10 so i cleaned it out a few times to start fresh Aug 07 11:18:14 and i hit the uboot thing Aug 07 11:18:24 and decided to just get back to coding on e anyway Aug 07 11:18:56 ya. give us a few days and we officially announce that we're back to org.oe.dev for a while Aug 07 11:18:58 raster / mickeyl: I'm building org.oe.dev right now and u-boot is fixed (as you said mickey) and works for me Aug 07 11:19:00 how large of a rootfs can the default GTA01 uboot partition size handle? Aug 07 11:19:05 will do Aug 07 11:19:10 no point me futzing with it then Aug 07 11:19:26 Yay, the loot has been acquired! Aug 07 11:19:59 Hadaka: Filesystem Size Used Available Use% Mounted on Aug 07 11:20:01 /dev/mtdblock4 61.0M 42.5M 18.4M 70% / Aug 07 11:21:23 mickeyl: thanks Aug 07 11:23:05 thomasg: Aug 07 11:23:05 NOTE: package uboot-gta01-1.2.0+svnnow-r12_0_200708071120: task do_quilt: started Aug 07 11:23:05 ERROR: function do_quilt failed Aug 07 11:23:05 ERROR: log data follows (/home/raster/moko/build/tmp/work/armv4t-linux/uboot-gta01-1.2.0+svnnow-r12_0_200708071120/temp/log.do_quilt.24606) Aug 07 11:23:19 NOTE: package uboot-gta01-1.2.0+svnnow-r12_0_200708071120: task do_quilt: failed Aug 07 11:23:19 ERROR: TaskFailed event exception, aborting Aug 07 11:23:22 :/ Aug 07 11:23:32 raster: yesterday evening I got the same error Aug 07 11:23:38 todays morning it was fixed Aug 07 11:23:42 hmm Aug 07 11:23:44 that was just now Aug 07 11:23:47 a minute ago Aug 07 11:23:49 but remember: I do not use the openmoko overlay Aug 07 11:23:54 I use blank org.oe.dev Aug 07 11:24:00 openmoko: 03mickey * r2658 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/daemons/neod/ (README src/buttonactions.c src/buttonactions.h): neod: short press on AUX now gets back to today, long press on AUX opens dialer Aug 07 11:24:07 i'm with the default Aug 07 11:24:19 thats the problem, it is not fixed there, I think Aug 07 11:24:29 yeah Aug 07 11:24:31 thats the problem Aug 07 11:24:32 :) Aug 07 11:24:35 but i want the overlay Aug 07 11:24:41 as i want all the stuff there Aug 07 11:24:41 why? ;) Aug 07 11:25:27 mickeyl - Ahh, good that this keypress handling has moved out of the panel-plugin into some daemon. Aug 07 11:25:43 thomasg: i want all the moko utils/progs/libs etc. Aug 07 11:25:46 mickeyl - Can individual apps hook into the aux button? Aug 07 11:25:47 the difference is, that the OM overlay contains the old om2007 files and so on. in org.oe.dev are the 2007.2 files Aug 07 11:26:08 i have an old om dev Aug 07 11:26:26 device Aug 07 11:26:33 so i want to make sure it will work Aug 07 11:26:34 Elrond: not yet, i'd like to have it that way eventually Aug 07 11:26:37 doesnt matter I think Aug 07 11:26:49 om2007 shoud run on phase0 as well Aug 07 11:26:55 i had enough fun reflashing it and having a battery that wont charge and won't boot Aug 07 11:26:56 erm, 2007.2 I mean Aug 07 11:27:01 * SpeedEvil is currently screaming and throwing things at pppd. Aug 07 11:29:12 SpeedEvil: you are not sacrificing the required number of virgin albino goats. Aug 07 11:29:24 thomasg: it'll be fixed soon anyway Aug 07 11:29:28 got enough to do :) Aug 07 11:29:32 ;) Aug 07 11:29:51 i need to generate new valgrind suppressions Aug 07 11:29:54 * * OM Bug 689 has been created by  Aug 07 11:29:55 * * uboot-gta01-1.2.0+svnnow-r12_6c33c78557ca6f8da68c01ce33e278695197d3f4_0_2632-do_quilt Aug 07 11:29:56 * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=689 Aug 07 11:32:50 Oooh, OpenMoko 2007.2 splash screen in boot, looking cool Aug 07 11:32:57 Pics! Aug 07 11:33:29 raster: http://wiki.openmoko.org/index.php?title=Talk:MokoMakefile&curid=2028&diff=16187&oldid=15769#uboot-gta01_fails_to_build Aug 07 11:33:30 ssh not up yet, can't do screenshots :) Aug 07 11:34:06 Uh, wth, did you guys get a plectrum with your headphones? :P Aug 07 11:34:25 yah Aug 07 11:34:25 btw. I like 2007.2 - very easy and nice to use with fingers only. 2007 sucks in that point Aug 07 11:34:27 Is that like for our air-guitar playing when we're using our neo to play hawt tunes? Aug 07 11:34:32 that's the 'opening tool' Aug 07 11:34:38 Haha :-p Aug 07 11:34:38 [openmoko-today] Aug 07 11:34:40 thomasg: or... just wait a day or 2 :) Aug 07 11:34:40 For the battery? Aug 07 11:34:43 Where can 2007.2 be downloaded from? Aug 07 11:34:44 seems like openmoko-today crashes Aug 07 11:34:55 raster: hehe, thats what I do for normal, too :) Aug 07 11:34:57 i have valgrindy ugliness to shut up Aug 07 11:34:58 yeah, segmentation fault on startup Aug 07 11:35:00 I assume there's no more work done to the old codebase? Aug 07 11:35:01 valgrind hates dlopen Aug 07 11:35:16 daxxar: for the backcover Aug 07 11:35:18 in fact anythng libdl based Aug 07 11:35:25 raster: *everybody* hates dlopen Aug 07 11:35:30 nah Aug 07 11:35:32 i love it Aug 07 11:35:33 Hadaka: broken, need to use 20070801 version Aug 07 11:35:35 its my best friend Aug 07 11:35:48 mickeyl: thanks Aug 07 11:35:57 mmazur - Officialy, bugfixes are welcome, but nobody work on it for real. Aug 07 11:36:10 raster: why? I always wondered why the point of it was... surely you can just use the dynamic linker.. why manually load dyn libraries and go to the trouble of finding symbols etc Aug 07 11:36:11 raster: what are you doing? porting 999.040 to oe/om? Aug 07 11:36:46 ewon: dude... you know not the power of dlopen then :) Aug 07 11:36:52 raster: clearly.. Aug 07 11:37:01 any URLs you can point me at? Aug 07 11:37:04 thomasg: well i want to set up a streamlined build for e17 for my moko Aug 07 11:37:28 thomasg: and work on the start wizard to configure e to work best on "embedded" Aug 07 11:37:37 ewon: no - but i can point to code Aug 07 11:37:50 raster: do, please Aug 07 11:38:07 ewon: btw - i do NOT use dlopen to load libjpeg, libpng, libc, libxine etc. etc. - i am not using it to replace libdl.so and compile-time linking Aug 07 11:38:19 ewon: evas for starters Aug 07 11:38:24 e17 for another Aug 07 11:38:24 raster: have you already started to write this first-start dialog? Aug 07 11:38:31 all the little extras in e17 are modules Aug 07 11:38:34 configu dialogs Aug 07 11:38:37 exebuf Aug 07 11:38:40 alt-tab winlist Aug 07 11:38:55 the laucnher bar, pager, battery meter, cpufreq handler, temperature metere Aug 07 11:38:57 etc. Aug 07 11:39:10 in evas image loaders/savers and engines are loadabel modules Aug 07 11:39:15 I hope you will follow my wish on the e-dev-ml and do categories for all that modules :) Aug 07 11:39:16 evas loads only what it needs, when its needed Aug 07 11:39:21 Elrond, anybody uploading images of .2? Aug 07 11:39:26 u dont need to link and resolve symbols in libs u dont need Aug 07 11:39:29 ah, so you can use it for on-the-fly plugins.. Aug 07 11:39:37 and inf act u can ADD engines and loaders RUNTIME Aug 07 11:39:40 yup Aug 07 11:39:42 on-the fly Aug 07 11:39:43 interesting Aug 07 11:39:48 loaders are generic Aug 07 11:39:53 its a directory tree of .so files Aug 07 11:40:04 evas just scans the dir tree finds the .so's and loads what it needed Aug 07 11:40:06 when needed Aug 07 11:40:19 thomasg: and no - not started with that first-start module yet Aug 07 11:40:24 thomasg: been on the todo for a long time Aug 07 11:40:40 thomasg: as for categories - its a godo idea - but for now- on the back-burner Aug 07 11:40:51 ewon: for e17 all these features are loaded modules Aug 07 11:41:03 if i dont want th efeature - it doesnt even need to be on disk int he package Aug 07 11:41:06 it can be an extra package Aug 07 11:41:08 adde dlater Aug 07 11:41:12 and that can extend the wm runtime Aug 07 11:41:14 openmoko: 03mickey * r2659 10/trunk/oe/packages/uboot/uboot-gta01_svn.bb: oe/uboot: pinpoint last known good revision until someone catches up with our patches Aug 07 11:41:22 i weant to add some feature - install module Aug 07 11:41:27 delete it from the dialog Aug 07 11:41:28 bingo Aug 07 11:41:30 u have it Aug 07 11:41:34 i dont need to patch the wm Aug 07 11:41:36 and rebuild Aug 07 11:41:41 raster: I stand enlightened :) Aug 07 11:41:46 at least I like the idea of every function in a loadable module. it's a pitty, that the fm will stay built-in :) Aug 07 11:41:46 i can extend as i go Aug 07 11:41:59 it allows users, 3rd parties etc. to extend and add features not imagined by the original authors Aug 07 11:42:13 thomasg: the fm core is a whole widget Aug 07 11:42:24 its needed for the file selectors, and other selector widgets Aug 07 11:42:47 is jffs2 filesystem in the normal kernel? or is there a way to extract the files? Aug 07 11:42:57 raster: yes, I know. however, I think E will be very small, soon ;) (not that it wasn't small right now) Aug 07 11:43:04 hey Aug 07 11:44:27 thomasg: even with the fm in it - its not that big Aug 07 11:44:37 considering that with the fm u basically get a filemanager for free Aug 07 11:44:39 along with the wm Aug 07 11:44:51 it makes it easy to just browse your media, files, etc. Aug 07 11:44:56 its just incredibly useful Aug 07 11:45:00 it mayaswell be there Aug 07 11:45:02 like the wm Aug 07 11:45:30 Hm, what's the cause of the 'shutdown when idle in uboot'-feature? Aug 07 11:45:34 uboot itself? Aug 07 11:45:46 shrug, flashed with too new devel-image, anyone knows which is the latest with 2.6.21.6-moko10? second latest? Aug 07 11:45:54 * * OM Bug 690 has been created by  Aug 07 11:45:55 * * uboot-gta01-1.2.0+svnnow-r12_0_2632_0-do_fetch Aug 07 11:45:56 * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=690 Aug 07 11:46:04 jeddy3: do you want moko11? Aug 07 11:46:12 raster: I wasn't using a fm for years now, so we'll see if e_fm will be able to change that :) Aug 07 11:46:40 Any way to make mokomakefile not build e.g. uboot? (since I don't need it) Aug 07 11:46:54 thomasg: still- the fm is the list widget/selector for wallpapers Aug 07 11:46:58 for starters Aug 07 11:46:59 xzcvczx, latest devel-image had modules for 2.6.21.6-moko11, but latest kernel was 2.6.21.6-moko10 Aug 07 11:47:21 jeddy3: no moko11 used to be up til buildhost died Aug 07 11:47:26 file selector - u will need one for many things there anyway Aug 07 11:47:27 i have moko11 if you want it Aug 07 11:47:34 in this way we recycle code directly Aug 07 11:47:36 for file selector Aug 07 11:47:39 wallpaper selector Aug 07 11:47:51 in fact any selector where its directly on the filesystem Aug 07 11:47:59 without writing multiple versions of it Aug 07 11:48:00 xzcvczx, ok, i'm using the ones from unofficial mirror Aug 07 11:48:05 Is chooseopen.com the only / recommened host for prebuilt images? Aug 07 11:48:12 xzcvczx, yes please :) Aug 07 11:48:25 jeddy3: gimme a min, Aug 07 11:48:56 jeddy3 -> pm Aug 07 11:49:22 was buildhost more recent than choseopen before it went down? Aug 07 11:49:37 xzcvczx, thanks! Aug 07 11:49:42 jeddy3: uImage-2.6.21.6-moko11-r1_0_0_2388_0-fic-gta01.bin is the full name of what i am sending you Aug 07 11:49:52 well what your are downloadin Aug 07 11:49:57 i am just too lazy to name in that way Aug 07 11:50:13 jeddy3: its /tmp stuff seemed to be Aug 07 11:50:20 xzcvczx, ok Aug 07 11:52:59 thomasg, your build finished? Aug 07 11:53:15 Dmitry_Platonov: no, but it's still running Aug 07 11:53:23 even webkit built w/o a problem Aug 07 11:53:47 2447 of 3502 Aug 07 11:53:55 hm, my webkit is still broken Aug 07 11:54:29 hello everybody. does anyone have a solution for the "uboot-gta01 fails to build" problem? I'm using MokoMakefile Aug 07 11:54:54 "Mounting proc on /proc failed: Device or resource busy" - does that cause a problem? (getting it during boot) Aug 07 11:54:59 gadfly: http://wiki.openmoko.org/index.php?title=Talk:MokoMakefile&curid=2028&diff=16187&oldid=15769#uboot-gta01_fails_to_build Aug 07 11:55:01 oh man, I really am a newbie with this darn OE Aug 07 11:55:02 I don't want to build uboot anyway - I'm going to flash just the kernel and jffs2 image. Aug 07 11:55:30 thomasg: I looked there. It tells me which revision to use, but I'm newbie to oe, so I need more explicit instructions Aug 07 11:55:31 took me ages to find out about mrproper - and then I can't get the date fixing to work Aug 07 11:55:40 I'm also getting I/O errors on mmcblk0 during boot. Aug 07 11:56:32 so far I just "holloed out" the bb file for uboot-svn, and it seems to work, but it will be overwritten next time I do "make update" Aug 07 11:56:34 gadfly: getting same Aug 07 11:56:45 gadfly: maybe you should just wait Aug 07 11:56:50 daxxar: if you are getting I/O errors you have probably run in to the u-boot bug - you need to clear out your rootfs totally before flashing in a new rootfs Aug 07 11:57:01 (script) openmoko-community: Harald Welte Re: Neo1973 Phase 1 sales / order process / misconception Aug 07 11:57:04 I got the neo just yesterday - you can understand I'm kinda impatiant.. Aug 07 11:57:06 Hadaka: It's booting. Isn't mmcblk0 the SD-card? Aug 07 11:57:34 daxxar: oh, right, sorry, didn't read too carefully Aug 07 11:57:52 gadfly: just use prebuilt for now Aug 07 11:57:52 daxxar: writing to the SD-card will cause I/O errors if you do it too fast - that's a known bug in bugzilla Aug 07 11:58:02 gadfly: if you are that impatient Aug 07 11:58:29 gadfly: there are ready-to-use images online Aug 07 11:58:35 xzcvczx: where do you get your images? I tried this: http://chooseopen.com/openmoko/build but didn't find compatible kernel/rootfs pair. And it is a week old ;) Aug 07 11:59:04 so right now I have a booting phone but no sound since no modules. Aug 07 11:59:06 gadfly: grab the latest .jffs2 (aug5 i think) and i will supply you a kernel that is compatible Aug 07 11:59:10 gadfly: doesnt matter if it's a week old Aug 07 11:59:13 Hadaka: It's during boot, and it's unpartitioned? Aug 07 11:59:27 denis^da: then that sounds a bit weird Aug 07 11:59:30 whops Aug 07 11:59:35 daxxar meant Aug 07 11:59:36 xzcvczx: already grabbed. thanks for the offer, I'll take it. Aug 07 11:59:43 :) Aug 07 11:59:48 np Hadaka Aug 07 12:00:05 gadfly: dont spread the link please Aug 07 12:00:10 oh denis^da, you are very helpful today :) Aug 07 12:02:16 thomasg, yeah I recognized that ;) Aug 07 12:02:27 Hm, is the 'backspace shows blocks in terminal'-bug on bugzilla? (can't find it) Aug 07 12:02:33 thomasg, thats the way I am :D Aug 07 12:03:02 xzcvczx: /me too Aug 07 12:04:32 (the kernel link) Aug 07 12:04:51 hrm, now I'm pretty sure I did get the older revision, but still segfaults... Aug 07 12:05:17 How often can the rootf be flashed? Will I damage the memory if I flash too often? (Bit of a newbie to embedded systems, still...) Aug 07 12:05:36 tens of thousands of times Aug 07 12:05:37 SpeedEvil: you are demanding this evening arent you :P Aug 07 12:05:43 I think it's a hundred thousand. Aug 07 12:05:51 Or is it a million? Aug 07 12:05:53 Anyway. Aug 07 12:05:54 Lots. Aug 07 12:06:06 ok... nothing to worry about then if I reflash ten times a day! thanks. Aug 07 12:06:12 Nope. Aug 07 12:06:17 u-boot is a seperate thing. Aug 07 12:06:21 why? Aug 07 12:06:27 you can only flash that a thousand times. Aug 07 12:06:32 different memory? Aug 07 12:06:37 the first block is special, and does not have ECC Aug 07 12:06:47 ok, I see. Aug 07 12:07:12 the remaining NAND capacity is not guaranteed. It's guaranteed that the capacity of the whole device exceeds X after Y writes. Aug 07 12:07:30 Haha, that 'stroke recognizer' is funny Aug 07 12:07:32 A straight line: 2 Aug 07 12:07:33 But any individual block is not guaranteed to work - even after the first write Aug 07 12:07:43 xzvcxz: did you see my question on the private channel? Aug 07 12:07:58 and the uboot is guaranteed that every block is ok for 1000 writes...? Aug 07 12:08:04 is it also NAND flash? Aug 07 12:08:08 no - just the first block Aug 07 12:08:09 yes Aug 07 12:08:12 gadfly: no you are not registered with nickserv... if it doesnt need to be in pm just say it here Aug 07 12:08:27 i get it... thanks SpeedEvil. Aug 07 12:08:57 As the bootloader inside the chip can't use ECC Aug 07 12:09:10 xzvcxz: no problem. The first part was: thanks!, the second was a question whether you can tell me how to compile the kernel directly, since kernel compiles I know but bitbake I'm still learning. Thanks. Aug 07 12:09:34 gadfly: this was a precomp up on buildhost before it went down Aug 07 12:09:42 xzvcxz: that is, how do I avoid the u-boot issue that prevents me from just doing "make openmoko-devel-image" Aug 07 12:09:50 xzvcxz: oh. Aug 07 12:10:06 xzvcxz: thanks anyway. Aug 07 12:10:31 xzvcxz: in the middle of flashing the jffs2, hope I get a working (mp3 playing gps device) phone :) Aug 07 12:11:25 gadfly: it doesnt come with gps software Aug 07 12:11:35 gadfly: and mp3 wont work from gui Aug 07 12:11:51 that i know of anyway Aug 07 12:11:55 mickeyl: only openmoko-today2 from 20070801 or do I need to downgrade something else (like a library) as well? Aug 07 12:12:07 xzcvcxz: I don't care about gui. And gps afai understand should work - NMEA through serial, no? Aug 07 12:12:14 Hadaka: no, that should be it. i had the same problem here Aug 07 12:12:28 mickeyl: ho Aug 07 12:12:29 gadfly: See GPS on the wiki Aug 07 12:12:42 zecke: good morning! Aug 07 12:12:42 mickeyl: okay, still segfaults for me - I'll investigate more Aug 07 12:12:52 SpeedEvil: thanks. Aug 07 12:13:18 mickeyl: I have most things packed, I'm nervous and will probably at three o'cloc Aug 07 12:13:22 k Aug 07 12:13:37 hi Aug 07 12:14:18 SpeedEvil: have you completed the d/l yet? Aug 07 12:14:30 i want to create some advertising for the openmoko, where can i find the animated logo? Aug 07 12:14:31 serenity: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (and also SH1, SH1_FAQ, Neo1973, Developer_preview and Neo1973_Hardware#GTA01Bv4 pages) (Hopefully these links answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) Aug 07 12:14:31 12% [===> ] 196,608 10.75K/s ETA 02:06 Aug 07 12:14:41 How good would the Neo1973 be as an ebook reader? Or would I be better of getting a PDA? Aug 07 12:14:48 SpeedEvil: yeah yeah bite me i know its slow Aug 07 12:14:59 Mukunda: not at the moment. Aug 07 12:15:06 Mukunda: come back in several months Aug 07 12:15:12 zecke: ok, cool. provided the DB is not on strike (which can be, they announced it yesterday *sigh*) I might come thursday evening. Aug 07 12:15:29 There is no software at the moment. Aug 07 12:15:38 SpeedEvil: I was thinking hardware wise, just with respect to the screen for reading from. Aug 07 12:15:45 Oh - that's fine. Aug 07 12:15:46 For long periods of time. Aug 07 12:15:47 IMO. Aug 07 12:15:52 It's _very_ clear. Aug 07 12:15:58 mickeyl: awesome, If 'my' car doesn't break and I don't crash I might pick you up Aug 07 12:16:12 zecke: ok, cool! Aug 07 12:16:16 I was reading ebooks on it earlier - using firefox. Aug 07 12:16:17 Okay, thanks. Aug 07 12:16:24 Though that is a silly way to do it. Aug 07 12:16:56 did I say I'm nervous? Aug 07 12:17:33 Indeed, haha. Hmm, I hope that the onscreen keyboard for it will be better later on, right now I think it's rubbish. Aug 07 12:17:39 or is there a seperate channel for advertising stuff? Aug 07 12:17:41 Indeed. Aug 07 12:17:58 I can't program to fix it though unfortunately, but hopefully I'll learn. Aug 07 12:18:29 openmoko: 03njp * r2660 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-dialer2/ (4 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed) Aug 07 12:18:29 openmoko: 2007-08-07 Neil J. Patel Aug 07 12:18:29 openmoko: * src/dialer-main.c: (main): Aug 07 12:18:29 openmoko: * src/moko-dialer.c: (on_call_progress_changed), Aug 07 12:18:29 openmoko: (moko_dialer_init): Aug 07 12:18:31 openmoko: Make sure the dialer window hides on delete, instead of calling Aug 07 12:18:33 openmoko: gtk_main_quit (). Aug 07 12:18:38 zecke: Why nervous? Because of meeting Mickey? Aug 07 12:18:39 xvkbd is nicer - IMO - and easily configurable. Aug 07 12:18:42 Less pretty Aug 07 12:18:46 who in here is working on the marvell 8686 and/or the atheros ar6k? Aug 07 12:18:57 abraxa_: no because of going to a strange place :) Aug 07 12:19:11 * ossman pokes nbd Aug 07 12:19:23 * Stephmw tags mickeyl as 'A Big Cheese' Aug 07 12:19:25 zecke: Frankfurt ? :D Aug 07 12:19:25 zecke: What strange place would that be? The CCCC? Aug 07 12:19:31 ... as opposed to THE big cheese Aug 07 12:19:33 and I didn't get el to join me Aug 07 12:19:36 yupp Aug 07 12:20:03 * xzcvczx thinks zecke should find somewhere public or he could get dragged off and added to the room of monkeys on typewriters that are making openmoko :P Aug 07 12:20:30 I think my mmc-problem was the card not seated properly. I really dislike the MMC seating. It was really fragile, and not very easy to insert your card into Aug 07 12:20:35 "Yupp, Frankfurt" or "Yupp, CCCC", zecke? ;) Aug 07 12:20:41 It's horrible. Aug 07 12:20:50 At least it needs a sticker on the inside of the case. Aug 07 12:20:50 abraxa_: the camp Aug 07 12:20:55 Ah, groovy Aug 07 12:21:04 I'm still shy and sensitive :} Aug 07 12:21:08 hm, anyone using rsync? i get a "rsync error: unexplained error (code 255) at main.c(977) [sender=2.6.9]" with the neu... Aug 07 12:21:11 daxxar: i must agree Aug 07 12:21:30 zecke: How old are you anyway? The picture on your blog makes you look >25 Aug 07 12:21:37 mkfs.ext2 /dev/mmcblk0p1 - whopee. Aug 07 12:21:39 24 Aug 07 12:21:41 oh man, still segfaults, tried a couple earlier commits as well just in case the date pinning wasn't correct - still no bonus Aug 07 12:21:43 ohh Aug 07 12:22:03 This filesystem will be automatically checked every 27 mounts or Aug 07 12:22:03 180 days, whichever comes first. Use tune2fs -c or -i to override. Aug 07 12:22:08 But there's no tune2fs :-( Aug 07 12:22:18 lol nice Aug 07 12:22:30 * SpeedEvil passes daxxar a tuna fish. Aug 07 12:23:07 * xzcvczx wonders how many people have added alias ls='ls --color=auto' to their /etc/profile Aug 07 12:23:30 Is the latest chooseopen build 2007.2 - or is that internal only ATM Aug 07 12:23:41 Huum. Opening and closing the keyboard seems to leave a lot of openmoko-keyboard zombie (Z) processes. Aug 07 12:23:46 xzcvczx: I did when you mentioned it. Aug 07 12:23:51 SpeedEvil: doesnt alphaone have 2007.2 up? Aug 07 12:24:07 daxxar: your better off adding it into a file in profile.d/ Aug 07 12:24:28 dunno Aug 07 12:24:58 SpeedEvil: i have one of alphaones images bbut i want to extract and inspect it before i flash it any idea how i can do this Aug 07 12:25:23 xzcvczx: modprobe mtdram? Aug 07 12:25:29 xzcvczx: Mkay! Aug 07 12:25:35 xzcvczx: dd the image into the mtd0 and then mount? Aug 07 12:25:36 if you have jffs2 support in your kernel, you could try to mount it as loop device Aug 07 12:25:54 thomasg: do you know what jffs2 is called in ye average kernel? Aug 07 12:26:04 jffs2 :) Aug 07 12:26:06 zecke: can you not just loop it? Aug 07 12:26:16 thomasg: hmmm must not be in mainstream kernel then Aug 07 12:26:25 xzcvczx: if it didn't change this year, you can't Aug 07 12:26:35 xzcvczx: debian has mtdram modules installed (they used to) Aug 07 12:26:37 xzcvczx: I'm not sure. maybe it's in 2.6.21 or higher Aug 07 12:26:37 zecke: oh lol then there we go Aug 07 12:26:49 thomasg: ah ok well i am only running .20 Aug 07 12:27:01 * xzcvczx looks Aug 07 12:27:10 you can check che 2.6.21 and 2.6.22 changelogs, maybe you find it there Aug 07 12:27:18 otherwise: just consult google Aug 07 12:27:39 thomasg: meh well i will try emerging the new kernel first Aug 07 12:28:40 thomasg: ah that will help i am running such an old kernel Aug 07 12:28:52 I'm running 2.6.19 Aug 07 12:29:25 i have like 15 kernels installed i have to do a clean up on this box at some stage Aug 07 12:29:27 even if gentoo switcht to 2.6.20, but I don't want to switch yet. never touch a running system :) Aug 07 12:29:42 rm -rf /usr/src/* :) Aug 07 12:29:53 wait Aug 07 12:29:56 thomasg: nah just make mrproper emerge --unmerge Aug 07 12:30:04 I looked in the 2.6.20 kernel sources Aug 07 12:30:10 jffs2 is in 2.6.20 Aug 07 12:30:14 oh? Aug 07 12:30:19 i must have missed it then Aug 07 12:30:26 FS->Miscellaneous,Journalling Flash File System v2 Aug 07 12:30:45 maybe you don't know that there is a search function in make menuconfig :) Aug 07 12:30:52 well, jffs2 was in 2.4.18... Aug 07 12:30:53 It is recent. Aug 07 12:30:57 just type / in it Aug 07 12:31:46 Ok - booting image Aug 07 12:31:47 thomasg: ah good point but its not where its meant to be Aug 07 12:32:09 thomasg: ooh, thanks for the tip Aug 07 12:33:12 2735 of 3502 Aug 07 12:34:23 hi Aug 07 12:34:26 thomasg: thanks found it now had to enable mtd Aug 07 12:34:33 > sb2 needs gcc to support --sysroot. gcc versions <4.0 seems no work. Aug 07 12:34:51 xzcvczx: good to know Aug 07 12:35:10 ok, I'm away now for a while, will go home now Aug 07 12:35:43 hm, hcitool finds no devices, but hci_usb and bluetooth are loaded. Aug 07 12:35:52 This is moko10 Aug 07 12:38:21 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[User:SNMoore]] [[Bootloader]] Aug 07 12:39:14 Hmm. The Aug 5 image from chooseopen and that kernel result in a blank screen. (under X) Aug 07 12:39:18 after the tscal Aug 07 12:39:32 SpeedEvil: not for me it doesnt Aug 07 12:39:39 Odd. Aug 07 12:39:40 SpeedEvil: you must have stuffed it Aug 07 12:39:40 hi Aug 07 12:40:11 1f161fe1eabca7a39da30762a0c687d3 openmoko-devel-image-fic-gta01-20070803091138.rootfs.jffs2 Aug 07 12:40:12 ? Aug 07 12:40:15 where can i find the animated openmoko logo? Aug 07 12:41:02 1f161fe1eabca7a39da30762a0c687d3 openmoko-devel-image-fic-gta01-20070803091138.rootfs.jffs2 Aug 07 12:41:09 Hmm. Aug 07 12:41:20 5b1f879ead7dd9226df0ac5bade65795 uImage.bin Aug 07 12:41:22 ? Aug 07 12:41:31 5b1f879ead7dd9226df0ac5bade65795 uImage-2.6.21.6-moko11-r1_0_0_2388_0-fic-gta01.bin Aug 07 12:41:45 SpeedEvil: how big was your previous flash image? Aug 07 12:41:58 slightly smaller IIRC Aug 07 12:42:52 hmm. Aug 07 12:43:00 SpeedEvil: if you ssh and kill xinit and /etc/init.d/xserver-nodm start does it work? Aug 07 12:43:07 is anyone interested in DirectFB on the neo? i would write a wiki? Aug 07 12:43:19 last ? -> ... Aug 07 12:43:29 xzcvczx, btw, it worked fine with your uImage, thanks Aug 07 12:43:50 I get errors - maybe DFU broke it. Aug 07 12:43:56 jeddy3: good to know SpeedEvil is the thing at fault here Aug 07 12:44:06 how did you upload it? Aug 07 12:44:11 jeddy3. Aug 07 12:44:20 dfu-util Aug 07 12:44:24 SpeedEvil: well just based on me and jeddy3 working fine i think problem must be you related Aug 07 12:44:47 Do you guys get usb working? hcitool scan says: Aug 07 12:44:48 Device is not available: No such device Aug 07 12:45:23 SpeedEvil, i have aug5 image from choseopen also, just as you :/ Aug 07 12:45:41 mdt, maybe sometimes Aug 07 12:45:43 ca661ef65eff1b37dfe2d2aab255a43a uImage-2.6.21.6-moko10-r1_0_0_2388_0-fic-gta01.bin Aug 07 12:45:45 daxxar, hcitool has nothing to do with usb, no? Aug 07 12:45:49 daxxar: is hcid running? Aug 07 12:45:52 oh 10 .. Aug 07 12:45:56 * ScaredyCat slaps self Aug 07 12:46:02 Err Aug 07 12:46:07 s/usb/bluetooth/ Aug 07 12:46:08 My bad. ;-) Aug 07 12:46:18 daxxar, =) Aug 07 12:46:20 * SpeedEvil tries redfuing. Aug 07 12:46:23 And yes, it's running, Ryback_ :-) Aug 07 12:46:39 redfuing is scaringly close to refunding! o.0 Aug 07 12:46:42 xkr47, at least one :D why are u interested? Aug 07 12:46:44 daxxar: 'hciconfig -a' shows you what? Aug 07 12:46:53 Ryback_: Nothing Aug 07 12:46:53 ScaredyCat, i renamed it to correct name, but that shouldn't make a difference Aug 07 12:47:12 ah ok... Aug 07 12:47:13 ScaredyCat, sorry wrong person, SpeedEvil Aug 07 12:47:17 (I'm running vanilla-compiled openmoko-devel-image-fic-gta01-20070731193153.rootfs.jffs2 w/ uImage-2.6.21.6-moko10-r1_0_0_2388_0-fic-gta01.bin) Aug 07 12:47:18 daxxar: so your kernel didn't find any bluetooth adapters Aug 07 12:47:19 lol Aug 07 12:47:26 I love the simplicity of fb access sometimes, maybe for some fullscreen app/game stuff Aug 07 12:47:41 daxxar: ls /sys/class/bluetooth ? Aug 07 12:47:46 Ryback_: bluetooth and hci_usb is loaded Aug 07 12:47:49 (mdt) Aug 07 12:47:55 Ryback_: l2cap rfcomm rfcomm_dlc Aug 07 12:48:05 xkr47: but it comes with ... so little! Aug 07 12:48:18 raster, dfb ? Aug 07 12:48:19 also it means breaking out of the windowing system that everything else lives in Aug 07 12:48:24 daxxar: yep, no bluetooth adapter found.. you should have a hci0 directory there (in /sys/class/bluetooth) Aug 07 12:48:26 dfb != fb Aug 07 12:48:27 imho Aug 07 12:48:39 xkr47, oppisite to me: i dislike gtk ;) Aug 07 12:48:41 dfb == a different architecture of an X driver module put inot a shared lib Aug 07 12:48:42 Ryback_: Huh, strange. Should I try another rootfs & kernel? Aug 07 12:48:44 dunno much about dfb, that's for sure.. :) Aug 07 12:49:18 SpeedEvil: try renaming it to proper name seen above if that works tell me Aug 07 12:49:20 60 Aug 07 12:49:22 i know with kernel patches u get the fusion messaging infra Aug 07 12:49:24 daxxar: do you know if the bluetooth adapter connection is via USB or UART? Aug 07 12:49:25 and can share between procs Aug 07 12:49:37 SpeedEvil: i would be VERY surprised if it was issue though Aug 07 12:49:46 raster, it comes with everything youu need for a mobile Aug 07 12:49:47 and it has infra for plugins for surface data providers etc. Aug 07 12:50:06 it coems with a fair bit Aug 07 12:50:11 but dfb != fb Aug 07 12:50:21 Ryback_: No idea, :-) Aug 07 12:50:33 raster, shure. yes. fb is a linux-kernel thing. directfb uses fb. Aug 07 12:50:43 there is nothing dfb can do that x can't Aug 07 12:50:59 xzcvczx: proper name? Aug 07 12:51:00 the difference being that x has by far and wide the lions share of toolkit, app etc. support Aug 07 12:51:02 raster, not true: dfb is faster Aug 07 12:51:17 daxxar: I also have no idea... but if the connection is UART then you'd probably need hci_uart module loaded Aug 07 12:51:19 faster at what? Aug 07 12:51:23 uImage-2.6.21.6-moko11-r1_0_0_2388_0-fic-gta01.bin Aug 07 12:51:29 (that is not a simple matter of implementation of drivers)? Aug 07 12:51:33 Doubtfull. Aug 07 12:51:36 (or software fallback code)? Aug 07 12:51:47 I'm reflashing the jffs, then booting Aug 07 12:51:52 daxxar: unfortunately I have no device here to test :-) Aug 07 12:51:58 there seemed to be some fs corruption. Aug 07 12:52:22 SpeedEvil: oh ok Aug 07 12:52:48 AFAIK it shuold use hci_usb Aug 07 12:53:05 raster, in screen animations ;) i have a app here which wouldnt be possible with x on a neo. the arm is incredible slow compared to the screensize... Aug 07 12:53:14 daxxar: if you say so (I don't really know) Aug 07 12:53:31 Does fb support different VTs? Aug 07 12:53:42 can you simply create a new VT and switch to it? Aug 07 12:53:48 SpeedEvil, maybe, yes, i don't know Aug 07 12:54:06 SpeedEvil, it does support different apps on one directfb-screen Aug 07 12:54:23 SpeedEvil, on my neo i uninstalled X and gtk and ... everything Aug 07 12:54:28 Hmm. Strange. Aug 07 12:54:29 daxxar, same for me with BT, btw Aug 07 12:54:34 jeddy3: Okay :-) Aug 07 12:54:43 mjr: What rootfs & kernel are you running? Aug 07 12:54:49 mjr: (Since you've got bt working;) Aug 07 12:55:10 mdt: and what does that app do? Aug 07 12:55:28 mdt: ok. let's throw out "acceleration" Aug 07 12:55:28 raster, everything a phone needs to do in my opinion Aug 07 12:55:35 for now Aug 07 12:55:39 thats really driver dependant Aug 07 12:55:48 no Aug 07 12:55:49 moe specifically Aug 07 12:55:53 how does it draw? Aug 07 12:55:54 with gtk? Aug 07 12:55:56 xlib? Aug 07 12:56:02 xrender? Aug 07 12:56:03 raster, neo has no acc in hw Aug 07 12:56:04 qt? Aug 07 12:56:08 i know Aug 07 12:56:10 This is odd. Aug 07 12:56:12 not currently Aug 07 12:56:22 Stuff is segfaulting in the boot scripts Aug 07 12:56:31 raster, as i said no x... :D Aug 07 12:56:32 so i will assume for this conversation - we are simply talking the software pipelines in dfb and x Aug 07 12:56:39 dfu-util -a 5 -R -D ./openmoko-devel-image-fic-gta01-20070803091138.rootfs.jffs2 completed with no error Aug 07 12:56:40 SpeedEvil: you got a log Aug 07 12:56:49 raster, i use plain directfb right now Aug 07 12:56:51 how do you know the app is slower in x? Aug 07 12:56:55 how do u know it's not possible? Aug 07 12:56:59 log of? Aug 07 12:57:03 SpeedEvil: you tried clearing your flash first? Aug 07 12:57:04 i have been doign x for a loooong time Aug 07 12:57:08 No, I diddn't. Aug 07 12:57:09 SpeedEvil: the faults Aug 07 12:57:10 raster, i see the performance of openmoko Aug 07 12:57:11 and i have had peolpe tell me thngs like this often Aug 07 12:57:17 and always proved them wrong Aug 07 12:57:17 SpeedEvil: maybe try that just in case Aug 07 12:57:18 oh Aug 07 12:57:20 thats nothgni to do with x Aug 07 12:57:22 at all Aug 07 12:57:30 thats 100% gtk, the pixmap engine Aug 07 12:57:35 and the theme setup Aug 07 12:57:40 and gtk display pipeline Aug 07 12:57:45 NOTHING to do with x11 Aug 07 12:57:47 raster, u like x? Aug 07 12:57:50 yes Aug 07 12:57:54 its design is clean Aug 07 12:58:00 raster, what for? Aug 07 12:58:09 with xcomposite/damage/render you have allthe api and extensions u need Aug 07 12:58:10 SpeedEvil: and maybe just redo the kernel just in case Aug 07 12:58:17 it is only a matter of better drviers Aug 07 12:58:22 and softare implementations of xrender Aug 07 12:58:24 How do I wipe the partition - I don't see that in DFU Aug 07 12:58:39 its implementation of the back-end only that stops u Aug 07 12:58:47 and "sill coding" in client/toolkit space Aug 07 12:58:48 SpeedEvil: You need uboot console for it Aug 07 12:58:48 SpeedEvil, dd? :D Aug 07 12:58:48 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Flashing_openmoko Aug 07 12:58:54 gtk's display pipeline is very bad Aug 07 12:59:02 its actually incredibly slow and very inefficient Aug 07 12:59:09 so do not assum gtk == x11 Aug 07 12:59:11 ah - right - what's the command? Aug 07 12:59:25 nand erase rootfs Aug 07 12:59:34 raster, okay, do a sample app and prove me you are as fast as directfb... ;) Aug 07 12:59:52 try evas Aug 07 12:59:53 :) Aug 07 12:59:59 raster, i did, shure Aug 07 13:00:05 has anyone got usbnet/ssh working with a win host? Aug 07 13:00:07 sveeral demo apps Aug 07 13:00:17 raster, it (compared to dfb) not documented at all Aug 07 13:00:30 raster, takes me too much time to handle Aug 07 13:00:31 its also vastly different Aug 07 13:00:40 raster, and: isn't better as directfb Aug 07 13:00:45 and actually has much higher-level infrastructure Aug 07 13:00:59 we are fixing the doucmentation slowly Aug 07 13:01:00 but Aug 07 13:01:06 thats beside the point Aug 07 13:01:12 evas i bet u will do all dfb does Aug 07 13:01:14 and more Aug 07 13:01:19 faster Aug 07 13:01:51 raster, nice. i will take a look, when there is some documentation Aug 07 13:02:05 it has probably one of the best software rendering engines around Aug 07 13:02:17 what documentation do u need? Aug 07 13:02:24 evas_object_move(obj, x, y); Aug 07 13:02:28 ok - boot now shows kernel panic, so it's gone. redfu. Aug 07 13:02:30 raster, i tried alot with it. you can put it on fb or dfb. nice stuff... Aug 07 13:02:33 ios pretty obvious Aug 07 13:02:49 most of the pai cals should be self-documenting Aug 07 13:02:57 raster, if u are in there, shure. but as a newbie developer it's a crap (sry) Aug 07 13:03:14 its not geard fro newb devs Aug 07 13:03:25 i assume you have competent c knowledge Aug 07 13:03:31 and know your way around Aug 07 13:03:43 but as i said Aug 07 13:03:45 there are docs Aug 07 13:03:47 but not complete Aug 07 13:03:52 raster, yes, c-knowledge shure. but no evas knowledge ;) Aug 07 13:03:57 but it does have a large amount of sample code Aug 07 13:04:12 there are tonnes of sample apps to learn from and build off Aug 07 13:04:14 as i said Aug 07 13:04:18 what do you NEED? Aug 07 13:04:22 if you tell me Aug 07 13:04:25 wa can address it Aug 07 13:04:28 as i see it Aug 07 13:04:33 you have tonnes of stuff available Aug 07 13:04:39 raster, as i said: i did not come through. i startet dfb later and had success soon. Aug 07 13:04:49 only the newest/more "esotric" bits of evas are hard to use/no examples etc. Aug 07 13:05:25 tell me what stopped you Aug 07 13:05:28 and it can be fixed Aug 07 13:05:37 but the main point is Aug 07 13:05:41 x is not bad Aug 07 13:05:43 x is just fine Aug 07 13:06:03 dont compare gtk on the moko to dfb and your app and say "x sucks". Aug 07 13:06:14 evas proves that x can sing, dance and do whatever you like Aug 07 13:06:41 amem :-) Aug 07 13:06:53 a lot of peolpe really dont know how to make x do it Aug 07 13:06:56 but it is possible Aug 07 13:07:34 i've devoted the past decade of my life trying to do just that :) Aug 07 13:07:57 * xzcvczx gives raster 20 years of life extra Aug 07 13:08:00 raster, shure x was developped for machine much slower than a neo... ;) Aug 07 13:08:51 I remember times when I used x11 on amiga 1200 Aug 07 13:10:06 raster, i have have given up with evas weeks ago. i don't exactly remember the shwostoppers. but it was a pain. i expect doc about a function with in- and output and what the behavior is. there was none. and sample code should be short to show one point. i did find alot doing complex stuff which did not tell me the point Aug 07 13:10:24 there are docs Aug 07 13:10:27 run gendco Aug 07 13:10:41 and it will generate docs drom doxygen commments in the doc/ dir Aug 07 13:11:12 i even wrtoe an example program a year or 2 ago Aug 07 13:11:17 dvd player in 19 lines of code Aug 07 13:11:19 a complete app Aug 07 13:11:26 src available Aug 07 13:11:37 i expaneded it over several iterations adding features Aug 07 13:11:42 SpeedEvil: any luck yet? Aug 07 13:11:59 raster: yeah, x11 is fine: easy way to verify that is to run (gtk) apps at PC and display at Neo1973 Aug 07 13:12:01 evas itself doesnt ship with examples Aug 07 13:12:20 because i dont think i should bloat up the src of the lib when examples and tutorials really belong eslewhere Aug 07 13:12:26 raster, yes, it generated lots of things but the function description where all empty - they where just not provided. Aug 07 13:12:39 yeah Aug 07 13:12:46 because we havent had time to docuemnt them Aug 07 13:12:56 documenting means no coding on features/bugfixes etc. Aug 07 13:12:57 oh man I hate the new DPI setting on openmoko images :-( Aug 07 13:13:02 so the focus is on code Aug 07 13:13:05 not on docs currently Aug 07 13:13:20 aloril2: not surprising Aug 07 13:15:04 raster, is there any way for rendering/animating svg with evas? Aug 07 13:15:19 mdt: there is an svg loader in evas Aug 07 13:15:22 it uses rsvg Aug 07 13:15:25 but it only loads Aug 07 13:15:32 svg itself is very heavy Aug 07 13:15:36 are there drivers for the GTA02 accelerator yet? Aug 07 13:15:37 and will not be fast Aug 07 13:15:46 pjz: sort-of. Aug 07 13:15:47 It's Aug 07 13:15:53 raster, i know rsvg. shure Aug 07 13:15:53 the datasheet is NDA'd. Aug 07 13:15:59 raster, no animation? Aug 07 13:16:00 So only FIC can develop drivers. Aug 07 13:16:12 mdt: no- rsvg doesnt support it (last i looked) Aug 07 13:16:20 raster, shure Aug 07 13:16:21 xzcvczx: booted ok - after nand erase. Aug 07 13:16:27 and i am in no mood to implement my own svg parser and renderer Aug 07 13:16:29 raster, so nothing else with evas? Aug 07 13:16:44 i am not so crazy about svg Aug 07 13:16:56 as a source format Aug 07 13:16:57 raster, :D me too, it's a college of mine Aug 07 13:16:59 for designers etc. Aug 07 13:17:00 yes Aug 07 13:17:10 but as an destination format - no. Aug 07 13:17:18 well not in my opinion Aug 07 13:17:34 raster, which kind of toolchain would you recommend Aug 07 13:17:46 raster, ...for scalable graphic Aug 07 13:17:52 SpeedEvil: cool Aug 07 13:17:54 raster, ...or even animated Aug 07 13:17:54 hmm Aug 07 13:17:58 i hear antigrain is good Aug 07 13:18:09 but its large and complex Aug 07 13:18:11 c++ Aug 07 13:18:24 as for just animation edje/evas are actually decent Aug 07 13:18:27 and will get better Aug 07 13:18:35 but that means using evas etc. :) Aug 07 13:18:38 raster, oh, i have some goals on my mobile project, one is 'no c++' :D Aug 07 13:18:57 then u are limited to cairo Aug 07 13:18:59 or do your own Aug 07 13:19:07 evas has very little vector rendering support Aug 07 13:19:14 mostly because i almost never need it Aug 07 13:19:25 i can do everythnig i want with manipulating bitmaps and just text Aug 07 13:19:48 raster, will a no-x11 evas be more supported in the future? we wanted to use ewl and etk and those need x11 Aug 07 13:20:04 raster, (sorry for jumping in topic :D ) Aug 07 13:20:05 they should work in the fb Aug 07 13:20:19 but i tend not to play much in the fb Aug 07 13:20:20 raster, we could not build without x11 Aug 07 13:20:24 thats mostly there for completeness Aug 07 13:20:29 and "specifci app development" Aug 07 13:20:35 it wont be any faster than x11 tho Aug 07 13:20:41 x11 isn't that big either Aug 07 13:20:47 u can lean it down to about 2mb of flash Aug 07 13:21:08 in return u get full x compat/support Aug 07 13:21:21 -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 1025244 Jan 1 1970 /usr/bin/Xfbdev Aug 07 13:21:25 not huge. Aug 07 13:21:31 add in xlib Aug 07 13:21:36 true of course Aug 07 13:21:42 and the other misc libs u need to talk to x Aug 07 13:21:43 etc. Aug 07 13:21:48 it adds up to about 2mb Aug 07 13:21:51 maybe a bit less Aug 07 13:22:11 I've put X+kernel+xterm+pppd on a 1.4M floppy. Aug 07 13:22:19 This was some time ago admittedly. Aug 07 13:22:24 same Aug 07 13:22:45 on my ipaq 3660 x + minimal libs, minimal x font and cursor font ended up adding 2mb to my flash image Aug 07 13:22:57 that may have also included freetype2 etc. as well Aug 07 13:23:01 someone could tell me how battery last Aug 07 13:23:04 this was a while abck too Aug 07 13:23:12 in normal use ( phone) Aug 07 13:23:30 It's almost irrelevant at this point write_erase. Aug 07 13:23:37 almost none of the PM stuff has been done. Aug 07 13:24:13 About 30-40 hours in suspend-RAM, and 2-5 hours normally Aug 07 13:24:35 2 hours would be on a call, while playing mpegs with the speaker volume at max, and the GPS on. Aug 07 13:24:51 SpeedEvil, ok. that's nice Aug 07 13:25:15 Let's add some wifi and bluetooth. Aug 07 13:25:23 SpeedEvil, can the phone be charged with the USB +5V ? from a computer, that rock Aug 07 13:25:26 the 30-40 hours is an accurate worst case. Aug 07 13:25:28 yes Aug 07 13:25:33 however. Aug 07 13:26:02 it is possible that some things are not turned off when they should be. Aug 07 13:26:17 In which case it might be much longer in suspend. Aug 07 13:27:09 SpeedEvil, Is it worth wait the next hardware release, for the Wifi chip, or it'll be long to come ? Aug 07 13:27:20 We have not been informed. Aug 07 13:27:27 The latest official word is october. Aug 07 13:27:58 Some have been complaining of the lack of official word... Aug 07 13:29:32 All right Aug 07 13:29:50 hi all Aug 07 13:30:09 hi Sup3rkiddo Aug 07 13:30:41 Sup3rkiddo: long time Aug 07 13:30:47 :P Aug 07 13:30:50 no it aint Aug 07 13:31:45 I may buy an HTC 3300, until it's ready. OpenMoko should run on this phone ? Aug 07 13:31:51 raster, so cairo is full supported with evas? Aug 07 13:32:10 write_erase: in principle. Has anyone booted linux on it? Aug 07 13:32:12 mdt: no. Aug 07 13:32:20 In practice. Aug 07 13:32:21 mdt: dropped support - cairo was way too slow. Aug 07 13:32:32 displays other than VGA are not well supported ATM. Aug 07 13:33:39 SpeedEvil: I read about some people doing work on QVGA openmoko Aug 07 13:33:58 Sure. Aug 07 13:34:07 daxxar: openmoko really should support a range of reses Aug 07 13:34:09 imho Aug 07 13:34:12 qvga as well as vga Aug 07 13:34:15 and wvga Aug 07 13:34:18 (800x480) Aug 07 13:34:23 in landscape and portrait Aug 07 13:34:26 I think QVGA is 'present', just not given as much attention. Aug 07 13:34:32 I.e. QVGA icons and fonts and whatnot Aug 07 13:35:00 Hmm. I wonder why it takes so long before my ML messages are returned to me Aug 07 13:35:42 daxxar: qvga is cheap and popular Aug 07 13:35:47 Yep Aug 07 13:35:49 so we really need to support it Aug 07 13:35:54 hell Aug 07 13:35:56 Just trying to build openmoko, but having trouble downloading from here, does it work for anyone else? libusb-0.1.12.tar.gz Aug 07 13:35:59 Woops. Aug 07 13:36:00 one day a moko phone may have qvga Aug 07 13:36:01 http://downloads.openmoko.org/sources/ Aug 07 13:36:03 or have 2 screen Aug 07 13:36:03 There. Aug 07 13:36:05 inner and outer Aug 07 13:36:06 or something Aug 07 13:36:11 and qvga might be the outser screen Aug 07 13:36:13 for example Aug 07 13:36:17 Anybody flashed OM/OE head images into the phone? Aug 07 13:36:19 so it mayaswell be supported Aug 07 13:36:33 Anyway, is it hard to set up qemu to run with QVGA? Aug 07 13:36:40 dunno Aug 07 13:36:54 xzcvczx: sound is working, madplay playing an mp3 file right now. I can't get dialer to work - when trying libtool-gsmd I can't register to the network (the sim works in my other phone). If you have any idea I'd appreciate it. Aug 07 13:37:37 xzcvczx: also at the AT commands level (tried following the wiki, but I fail in the registration part) Aug 07 13:37:46 gadfly: what network is the SIM on? Aug 07 13:38:06 ewon: you mean the provider? orange. Aug 07 13:38:31 gadfly: look at the 'using GSM manually' link on the wiki - as a test Aug 07 13:38:35 Briefly Aug 07 13:38:40 killall gsmd Aug 07 13:38:41 brb Aug 07 13:38:42 ah, ok. heard of issues with AT&T sims Aug 07 13:38:44 cu -l /dev/ttySAC0 Aug 07 13:38:44 ewon: and there is no PIN for the card, so what am I supposed to use with AT+CPIN Aug 07 13:38:57 AT+cfun=1 (modem on) Aug 07 13:39:05 at+cops (register with network) Aug 07 13:39:14 atd012934 Aug 07 13:39:27 SpeedEvil: been there, got stuck at AT+CPIN. I don't have a pin (I think - maybe there is a default?) Aug 07 13:39:39 You don't need to enter a pin if you have no pin Aug 07 13:39:54 I diddn't, and have a t-mobile-uk SIM Aug 07 13:40:02 Where does dropbear read authorized keys from? Aug 07 13:40:03 SpeedEvil: I'll try it. thanks. Aug 07 13:40:13 you only do the AT+CPIN if you register returns an ERROR Aug 07 13:40:14 gadfly: make sure you power off and power on the gsm module in libgsmd-tool -m shell before you register Aug 07 13:40:21 SpeedEvil: wish you could remove the battery while usb was plugged without rebooting.. Aug 07 13:40:27 gadfly: why? Aug 07 13:41:02 SpeedEvil: because since my sim is in the other phone I now have to shutdown, remove battery, insert sim, reinsert battery, boot (1+minute), ssh and try what you suggested. :( Aug 07 13:41:02 daxxar: ~/.ssh/ Aug 07 13:41:18 Ah Aug 07 13:42:43 gadfly: try what i suggested first.... simpler than 15 AT commands Aug 07 13:42:58 Haha, whoops. Dropbear does *not* respond to SIGHUP properly. ;P Aug 07 13:43:43 xzcvczx: will do Aug 07 13:43:48 xzcvczx: I don;t think libgsmd-tool works properly atm... Aug 07 13:43:55 hence cu Aug 07 13:44:11 ScaredyCat: works for me Aug 07 13:44:17 ScaredyCat: Thanks a lot. :-) Aug 07 13:44:17 ScaredyCat: well for calling anyway Aug 07 13:44:43 Wow, that 'normal keyboard' OSD KB is so much better than the "other" one Aug 07 13:44:48 http://buildhost.openmoko.org/tmp/ is empty?!? Aug 07 13:44:49 Openmoko sucks! Aug 07 13:45:11 Quintano: You suck. Aug 07 13:45:18 daxxar: the openmoko one unfourtunately lacks tab, up, ctrl which are all important in terminal Aug 07 13:45:28 xzcvczx: Exactly. :-) Aug 07 13:45:45 daxxar: no. Linux sucks. Aug 07 13:45:47 Quintano: so's your face. Aug 07 13:45:48 daxxar: OpenMoko should use Plan9... Aug 07 13:45:53 Quintano: get out Aug 07 13:46:03 Quintano: if you have nothing constructive to add then leave Aug 07 13:46:05 daxxar: and they should code userspace on Lisp. Aug 07 13:46:18 ewon: no way! Aug 07 13:46:32 I am cornholio! I need TP for my bunghole! Aug 07 13:46:33 hmmm hes on gprs Aug 07 13:46:37 Quintano: when you've coded it, let us know... Aug 07 13:47:05 no need to feed the troll, guys Aug 07 13:47:21 /ignore Quintano is the quickest Aug 07 13:47:22 if he's on gprs, I suggest we give him as much traffic in the channel as possible Aug 07 13:47:33 Haha :-P Aug 07 13:47:37 Vegar: would you like to feel my bunghole? Aug 07 13:47:37 Quintano: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (and also SH1, SH1_FAQ, Neo1973, Developer_preview and Neo1973_Hardware#GTA01Bv4 pages) (Hopefully these links answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) Aug 07 13:47:50 * raster feeds the troll some rancid beans Aug 07 13:47:52 /query Quintano; /exec -o - cat /dev/urandom Aug 07 13:48:00 Uh oh. Aug 07 13:48:00 lol Aug 07 13:48:05 To be fair, Openmoko does suck. Aug 07 13:48:06 ahah Aug 07 13:48:06 haha Aug 07 13:48:11 It does. Aug 07 13:48:20 xzcvczx: libgsm-tool R just gives me EVENT: Netreg registration denied Aug 07 13:48:20 Hmm. Strange. Aug 07 13:48:25 SpeedEvil: of course! They used wrong OS> Aug 07 13:48:28 It will hopefully get better. Aug 07 13:48:52 gadfly: use cu Aug 07 13:48:56 I'm SSHing from my openmoko to my usb host, then from that and further on, but the last link just .. hangs after I press enter. Aug 07 13:49:07 (But sshing from the usb host directly is fast) Aug 07 13:49:10 ci -l /dev/ttySAC0 Aug 07 13:49:11 Quintano: everything else sucks more on Neo1973 ;-) Aug 07 13:49:16 cu -l /dev/ttySAC0 Aug 07 13:49:21 not ci ... Aug 07 13:49:23 :) Aug 07 13:49:26 AT Aug 07 13:49:27 I.e. ssh daxxar@192.168.1.1 (I changed the default IP), and on there, ssh some-other-host Aug 07 13:49:34 aloril: even Plan9? Aug 07 13:49:35 Then it just hangs (until I kill the SSH process manually) Aug 07 13:49:37 AT+CFUN=1 Aug 07 13:49:47 AT+COPS Aug 07 13:49:50 Hm, now it worked, perhaps. Aug 07 13:49:58 Quintano: of course, it doesn't even run on it ;-) Aug 07 13:49:59 Maybe the master control socket was broken. Aug 07 13:50:14 if it doesn't come back with ERROR then AT+COPS? Aug 07 13:50:19 SpeedEvil: I've killed gsmd, cu'ed -l, the result of at+cops is:AT+cops Aug 07 13:50:19 +CREG: 2 Aug 07 13:50:19 +CREG: 3 Aug 07 13:50:19 +CME ERROR: 32 Aug 07 13:50:34 (though I guess you could get it run fairly easily under OpenMoko in Neo1973) Aug 07 13:50:36 Unsure. Aug 07 13:50:39 mmhh.. was somebody actually able to compile OM-2007.2 with the nslu2 makefile? Aug 07 13:50:42 aloril: shhhhh - no more feeding! it's already bloated and leaking gasses Aug 07 13:50:43 i get strange errors Aug 07 13:50:43 did you AT+CFUN=1 first? Aug 07 13:50:44 :) Aug 07 13:50:47 gadfly throw in an atz first Aug 07 13:50:50 raster: hehe Aug 07 13:51:40 SpeedEvil: that just gives me ERROR (tried atz, then at+cops, and also atz;at+cfun=1;at+cops) Aug 07 13:51:53 In russian, ganja is often called "plan" 8-) Aug 07 13:51:54 hello Woeld froneo! Aug 07 13:52:00 Ugh Aug 07 13:52:10 SpeedEvil: anyway to tell it "list all available networks"? Aug 07 13:52:10 Dmitry_Platonov: yes. Aug 07 13:52:20 borg_: nope :/ Aug 07 13:52:39 Dmitry_Platonov: uh, by the way, how do I patch KDE2 in FreeBSD? Aug 07 13:52:39 ooh. Aug 07 13:52:51 at+cops? Aug 07 13:52:54 * Dmitry_Platonov sigs Aug 07 13:53:05 gadfly: you did the stuff here: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Manually_using_GSM ? Aug 07 13:53:12 * Dmitry_Platonov sighs Aug 07 13:53:40 ScaredyCat: Yes before, maybe I missed something (probably if it works for you guys), I'll try again Aug 07 13:53:43 xrandr -o 1, and ssh + screen + irssi =~ usable! Aug 07 13:54:03 daxxar: using what keyb? Aug 07 13:54:10 Quintano, boyan. Nezachet. Aug 07 13:54:17 Onscreen Aug 07 13:54:19 Not the default Aug 07 13:54:22 * daxxar switched to his ws Aug 07 13:54:31 Dmitry_Platonov: tut, dumayu, ne boyan... Aug 07 13:54:31 The drawing of irssi is kinda broken Aug 07 13:55:22 borg_: will try it again tomorrow... no time now.. have to prepare my stuff for the camp Aug 07 13:55:37 ^a-F after xrandr made it even better Aug 07 13:55:56 NOTE: build 200708070901: completed Aug 07 13:56:02 hurray :) Aug 07 13:56:12 daxxar: what onscreen keyb? Aug 07 13:56:15 hi everyone Aug 07 13:56:16 if not default Aug 07 13:56:24 raster, can evas do 90degrees screen turns? Aug 07 13:56:29 Cthulhu fhtagn! Aug 07 13:56:30 SpeedEvil: The second 'Keyboard' in the keyboard-white-button dropdown Aug 07 13:56:36 raster, (on fb, no x11) Aug 07 13:56:51 mdt: yes Aug 07 13:56:55 oh - right - hadn't seen that Aug 07 13:57:06 raster, hm, that would be a point.... ;) Aug 07 13:57:13 :) Aug 07 13:57:21 Is there anyway to get detailed error strings from the gsm? I mean, "ERROR" doesn't tell me much.. Aug 07 13:57:39 I guess that's the matchbox keyboard, SpeedEvil Aug 07 13:57:56 But it seems to crash (Zombie) on my neo Aug 07 13:58:01 Going into unkillable mode Aug 07 13:58:22 you get ok back after an AT gadfly? Aug 07 13:58:57 Is there a stroke recogniser FAQ? Aug 07 13:59:01 d Aug 07 13:59:07 as in what it expects Aug 07 13:59:07 SpeedEvil: "Does it work?" "No." Aug 07 13:59:16 (From personal experience) Aug 07 13:59:21 I can get it to mostly work on many chars Aug 07 13:59:28 I don't know what it's expecting Aug 07 13:59:32 It gives me '2' for a vertical line. O.0 Aug 07 14:00:28 hi Aug 07 14:00:50 how to mount the sd card on the phone? I can detect it in uboot mode by mmc-init but cant mount it Aug 07 14:01:05 Anyone else having strange issues with backspace, arrows, etc in terminal? (shows "blocks", but performs the actions you say (but does not update display)) Aug 07 14:01:25 deepank: What happens when you try? What does fdisk -l /dev/mmcblk0 show? Aug 07 14:02:34 daxxar: I have same issues (in qemu) Aug 07 14:03:20 http://www.phoronix.com/?page=news_item&px=NTk1Mw Aug 07 14:03:24 let the rumor mill begin Aug 07 14:03:37 It shows : /dev/mmcblk0p1 1 961 122959+ 6 FAT16 Aug 07 14:04:05 ScaredyCat: sorry for the delay, yes I do. But right now it is strange - the at+cops seems to work, but atdt (and atdt+) give NO CARRIER. and AT+COPS doesn't actually return at all. Aug 07 14:04:20 ATE1don't use t Aug 07 14:04:23 oops Aug 07 14:04:29 just do ATD Aug 07 14:04:30 deepank: df -h doesnt show it? Aug 07 14:04:31 oh well, doing without openmoko-today for now - modified X startup script to start mbinputmgr and mrxvt Aug 07 14:04:35 not the extra T Aug 07 14:04:38 it doesnt detect it Aug 07 14:04:39 btw, how do I quit cu nicely? Aug 07 14:04:41 ATD12435 Aug 07 14:04:44 ~. Aug 07 14:04:45 . Aug 07 14:04:49 deepank: It should automount to /media/card Aug 07 14:04:52 tilde dot Aug 07 14:04:57 ~~. if sshd in Aug 07 14:05:01 yes, I saw the entry in /etc/fstab Aug 07 14:05:04 so you don't get ssh dying Aug 07 14:05:10 I did atd, the t was a typo (I think that was once used) Aug 07 14:05:24 deepank: the issue is almost certainly the horribleness of the socket Aug 07 14:05:54 SpeedEvil: can you explain .. Aug 07 14:05:59 does : AT+COPS? (with the ? work) ? Aug 07 14:06:04 Well - maybe not. Aug 07 14:06:08 howevefr. Aug 07 14:06:19 There have been a couple of people in recent days asking about the same issue. Aug 07 14:06:23 SpeedEvil: yes, I can do that, actually I found screen is in the image, works much better (^A^K) Aug 07 14:06:50 And in both cases, it's the socket is the problem - reseating the SD worked. Aug 07 14:08:01 ok. so I should remove it and then plug the card in again Aug 07 14:08:16 try that. Aug 07 14:08:29 Note that the SD slides into the metal bit - when the metal bit is raised Aug 07 14:08:40 does mostly everyone has his GTA01 ? Aug 07 14:08:50 nope Aug 07 14:09:14 loufoque: it is not certified in Albania. So, I cannot get it. Aug 07 14:09:26 booo Aug 07 14:09:27 :( Aug 07 14:10:32 Quintano: certified by what Aug 07 14:11:10 Whoops, fucking disconnect. Aug 07 14:11:33 raster: you like raster graphics? Aug 07 14:11:39 what gps-related tools is avaliable in phase1, if any? Aug 07 14:11:40 * ewanm89 is having a thunderstorm problem. Aug 07 14:11:53 loufoque: the name says it all :) Aug 07 14:12:10 i see we have no gllin in home anymore Aug 07 14:13:06 AH, silly me. Aug 07 14:13:07 jeddy3_: echo "1" > /sys/bus/platform/devices/gta01-pm-bt.0/power_on Aug 07 14:13:08 ;-) Aug 07 14:13:25 daxxar, aha! Aug 07 14:13:53 I cannot use OpenMoko because of my religion. Patreg will punish me most severely for it, because OpenMoko uses GTK. Aug 07 14:14:09 Fork off Quintano. Aug 07 14:14:19 daxxar, yep, works perfectly Aug 07 14:14:42 Nick-changing troll. The worst kind. Aug 07 14:14:49 lol @ speedevil Aug 07 14:15:21 daxxar: I change nick because of fucking disconnects. Aug 07 14:15:42 Anyone have a clue what the stroke recogniser is - or where I can find a config file? Aug 07 14:15:52 * SpeedEvil considers, then pss. Aug 07 14:15:54 daxxar: Internets, which russians are selling to us, are very unstable and expensive - $80 per 1 Mb! Aug 07 14:15:59 ah Aug 07 14:16:10 root@fic-gta01:~$ hidd --connect 00:16:41:7D:6A:57 Aug 07 14:16:10 Can't get device information: Success Aug 07 14:16:13 .. :-P Aug 07 14:16:14 Quintan0: if you hate linux, gtk, et.c so much - go start your own plan9 based phone company and project. i am sure it will be a rip-roaring success Aug 07 14:16:40 I'm having a simmilar problem hith a thunderstorm, (with disconnects). Aug 07 14:16:54 raster: :-) Aug 07 14:17:11 Ah, wrong hw addr. Using my laptop as a HID device isn't what I wanted. ;P Aug 07 14:17:19 daxxar: hidd--search (and put device in able to be found mode) Aug 07 14:17:19 you will also appease your religious masters too Aug 07 14:17:36 s/d\-/d\ \-/ Aug 07 14:17:56 daxxar: hidd --search doesn't need hardware address. Aug 07 14:18:03 ewanm89: Neato Aug 07 14:18:14 raster: there's no need to do this. His Highness, Patreg, will punish all of yous for this treachery. Aug 07 14:18:28 excellent Aug 07 14:18:31 i like a good spanking Aug 07 14:18:46 ah. Aug 07 14:18:51 daxxar: I onle found that option in the last week. Aug 07 14:18:58 Slaka rulit, Patreg - boh! Aug 07 14:19:09 /usr/share/matchbox-stroke/strokes.xml seems to document the strokes. Aug 07 14:19:15 for low values of document Aug 07 14:19:41 woah there quintain0 is there room for me to get spanked too? Aug 07 14:19:46 Indeed, values closely approaching zero :) Aug 07 14:20:54 * raster presents his behind for the psanking Aug 07 14:20:56 spanking Aug 07 14:21:00 come patreg Aug 07 14:21:04 do your worst Aug 07 14:21:10 wow. i picked the wrong time to drop in. :) Aug 07 14:21:24 hahah Aug 07 14:21:29 raster: how dare do you speak to the Patreg! Aug 07 14:21:53 * raster flatulates at the patreg Aug 07 14:22:09 technically.. that's not speaking Aug 07 14:22:13 but it is communicating Aug 07 14:22:15 :) Aug 07 14:22:41 is the Parteg a sort of flying spaghetti? Aug 07 14:22:49 ./ignore *!*@*.mobnet.ru Aug 07 14:22:55 everyone do that Aug 07 14:23:01 and we shall have peace Aug 07 14:23:04 squalyl: no, Patreg is Patrick Volkerding. Aug 07 14:23:18 hehe. thats funny... MOBnet .. Aug 07 14:23:25 * squalyl googling Aug 07 14:24:02 squalyl he's a troll don't waste your time Aug 07 14:24:27 BryceLeo|Work: Patreg isn't a troll! He's God! Aug 07 14:24:46 BryceLeo|Work: i thought i'd just get some amusement out of it Aug 07 14:24:48 fugly troll is Patreg Aug 07 14:25:14 BryceLeo|Work: if we're going to have lower life-forms waqllowing in the scum at the bottom of this channel Aug 07 14:25:21 Patreg is the God! He created the Slackware! Aug 07 14:25:30 may as well find some amusement from stirring them about :) Aug 07 14:25:31 OK I saw that Aug 07 14:25:37 lmao, good point raster Aug 07 14:25:38 openmoko: 03njp * r2661 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-dialer2/ (ChangeLog src/moko-dialer.c src/moko-notify.c): Aug 07 14:25:38 openmoko: 2007-08-07 Neil J. Patel Aug 07 14:25:38 openmoko: * src/moko-dialer.c: (on_keypad_dial_clicked): Aug 07 14:25:38 openmoko: Make sure new entry's are written to the journal. Aug 07 14:25:38 openmoko: * src/moko-notify.c: (moko_notify_check_brightness), Aug 07 14:25:42 openmoko: (moko_notify_start): Aug 07 14:25:44 openmoko: Check the LCD brightness, if it is under 5000, set it to 5000. Aug 07 14:26:06 Woot! Aug 07 14:26:15 So what's up with uboot? The best thing to do is waiting for a fix or did someone overcome this sh... thing? Aug 07 14:26:34 squalyl: you could modify the patch so it works Aug 07 14:26:43 Hawt bt-kb+neo+ssh+irssi action! Aug 07 14:26:44 * SpeedEvil wants slackware-neo1973 Aug 07 14:26:47 squalyl: i for one will just wait til its fixed Aug 07 14:26:54 pkgtool++ Aug 07 14:26:59 SpeedEvil: a pox on thee! Aug 07 14:27:01 woot! fixed that nasty "accessing 4 bytes of invalid already freed memory" Aug 07 14:27:02 debian or nothing! Aug 07 14:27:04 SpeedEvil: nah i prefer gentoo-neo1973 :P Aug 07 14:27:04 that tok a bit Aug 07 14:27:17 lol distrowar Aug 07 14:27:18 debian-1973 for the win! Aug 07 14:27:24 juri_: \o/ Aug 07 14:27:27 I wonder if I should try BT PAN ;-) Aug 07 14:27:44 * daxNeo dances Aug 07 14:27:57 (and one day, we'll release a 1974 debian version. our release cycle is just a bit slow.. ;) Aug 07 14:28:22 lol you guys are so weird... i'l take anything with a linux kernel, X display, a WM, and some apps Aug 07 14:28:24 daxNeo: so bt is working for you now? :-) Aug 07 14:28:33 Now all I have to do is write an Icvecap-client for the Neo ;-) Aug 07 14:28:38 daxNeo: what was the problem? Aug 07 14:28:39 debian is based on feces Aug 07 14:28:52 * Clint coughs. Aug 07 14:28:54 ooooo low blow ScaredyCat Aug 07 14:29:08 Ryback_: 1ep. 4ad to "turn on" the bt dev using pm Aug 07 14:29:14 what does scaredycat use? Mandriva!? :P Aug 07 14:29:28 naaa lindows ;) Aug 07 14:29:36 BryceLeo|Work: i'll only take something with my own damned wm :) Aug 07 14:29:36 There has to be a definition for strokes, other than strokes.xml Aug 07 14:29:45 anything else will offend me :) Aug 07 14:29:47 BryceLeo|Work: nah hes the man and uses windows Aug 07 14:29:50 s/1ep. 4/Yep. H/ Aug 07 14:29:50 daxNeo meant: Ryback_: Yep. Had to "turn on" the bt dev using pm Aug 07 14:30:06 raster: you got any pics of e on neo? Aug 07 14:30:08 I mean, I'm as geeky as the next OSS geek, but parsing Aug 07 14:30:18 to work out what I need to draw for a 'b' is hard. Aug 07 14:30:21 xzcvczx: sorry - only on my n800 Aug 07 14:30:35 what does the 770 use? Aug 07 14:30:35 raster: meh that will do Aug 07 14:30:36 Was a sinple "echo", documented on the wiki *g* Aug 07 14:30:38 xzcvczx: been busy shuffling code around so e will be slicker on the neo Aug 07 14:30:51 xzcvczx: http://www.rasterman.com/ Aug 07 14:30:53 right there Aug 07 14:30:54 thanks Aug 07 14:30:55 front page Aug 07 14:31:00 ScaredyCat, a proprietary recognition software Aug 07 14:31:03 daxNeo, apt: nice, thanks. didn't know you had to do that.. :-) Aug 07 14:31:07 :( Aug 07 14:31:15 ohh come on raster any app can go anywhere you just have to build it! Aug 07 14:31:19 hopefully I'll get e17 to run today Aug 07 14:31:19 Ryback_: See the ML. :-) Aug 07 14:31:23 BryceLeo|Work: i know :) Aug 07 14:31:29 daxxar: heh Aug 07 14:31:36 the work is in making it work like a dream Aug 07 14:31:39 and slickly Aug 07 14:31:44 and efficiently Aug 07 14:31:45 raster: not too shabby, not too shabby at all Aug 07 14:31:46 :) Aug 07 14:31:51 give me some time... Aug 07 14:31:58 been moving a lot of stuff to modules Aug 07 14:32:08 so they can be replaced by "small screen firendly" versions Aug 07 14:32:21 What's e17? Aug 07 14:32:40 a shite boy band Aug 07 14:32:43 hahaha well raster I know this one WM it'c called "Enlightenment" and it's pretty sweet. You should check it out :P Aug 07 14:32:54 ScaredyCat: and everyone of them could still do your mum Aug 07 14:33:31 root@fic-gta01:/media/card$ madplay Plazma\ Tek\ -\ Star.mp3 # Mad bass! Aug 07 14:33:41 xzcvczx: only if they like to 'do' dead people Aug 07 14:33:42 ScaredyCat: :P Aug 07 14:33:48 :S Aug 07 14:34:12 hm, what do I have to do if my rootfs is bigger than the 32mbytes that are adressed in the howtos? can I just set it from 32000000 to 50000000? Aug 07 14:34:21 althought it's only been 2 months... so... Aug 07 14:34:26 That's either the lowest retort ever, or the worst directed insult ever. :-S Aug 07 14:34:32 BryceLeo|Work: hahahaha :-P Aug 07 14:34:40 daxxar: it's a boy band Aug 07 14:34:42 That's the issue with your-mom-insults to people you don't know. Aug 07 14:35:02 daxxar: yeah realised that could be the case just a wee bit too late Aug 07 14:35:12 ScaredyCat: sorry, my bad Aug 07 14:35:36 naa. no probs... daxxar was right Aug 07 14:35:40 daxxar how long have you been doing the linux thing? Aug 07 14:35:41 >:D Aug 07 14:35:51 BryceLeo|Work: What linux thing? Aug 07 14:36:05 ScaredyCat: You're evil. Aug 07 14:36:12 damn right :) Aug 07 14:36:14 daxxar you know the OS with the Start menu and a killer Solitaire program :P Aug 07 14:36:19 * xzcvczx knows where ScaredyCat lives Aug 07 14:36:24 BryceLeo|Work: Hurr hurr Aug 07 14:36:33 bwhahahahahahaahaahah Aug 07 14:36:34 BryceLeo|Work: Many years, I dunno. Do you want an exact count? Aug 07 14:36:37 lol i know ain't mee's sooooo funny Aug 07 14:36:41 * daxxar checks his CV Aug 07 14:36:51 lol ahh ok so you were kidding about the e17 thing.... got it Aug 07 14:37:20 no, they really are shite Aug 07 14:37:29 Meh, haven't written it down. :-) Aug 07 14:37:46 BryceLeo|Work: Sorry, I was cutting down on the smileys to get used to the Freedom Mini Keyboard. ;-) Aug 07 14:37:55 :) Aug 07 14:37:59 ok Aug 07 14:38:02 snoozies time! Aug 07 14:38:20 hey, what would people in the openembedded world use for goocanvas? Aug 07 14:38:35 lol sarcasm can be soo hard to see over the interweb. Hmmm... i feel a version of RatPoison coming for the neo lol Aug 07 14:38:41 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[User:Ashnazg]] [[P1_Owners]] [[User:Fuzzy]] [[User:SNMoore]] [[User_talk:SNMoore]] Aug 07 14:38:50 Haha Aug 07 14:39:19 BryceLeo|Work: come on nothing can beat ratpoison Aug 07 14:39:30 Or dwm/ii! Long live keyboard-centric WMs for a touch-screen device§! Aug 07 14:39:33 s/§// Aug 07 14:39:33 daxxar meant: Or dwm/ii! Long live keyboard-centric WMs for a touch-screen device! Aug 07 14:39:59 can you rotate the screen on the neo? Aug 07 14:40:04 haha i used to use ratpoison but then i wanted something pretty Aug 07 14:40:05 xrandr -o 1 Aug 07 14:40:42 thomasg__, your build finished? Aug 07 14:40:44 someone should look at porting looking glass Aug 07 14:40:45 yes Aug 07 14:40:49 I just built my own image (again ^^) and it's about 40 megabytes. I flashed it, but the neo tells me "bad magic number" what could the problem be? Aug 07 14:40:53 that'd be so awesome Aug 07 14:41:14 Does Beryl run on OpenMoko? Aug 07 14:41:17 no Aug 07 14:41:24 shut up you tart Aug 07 14:41:35 What's the normal range on BT? Aug 07 14:41:37 ScaredyCat, that's what I wanted to say ^^ Aug 07 14:41:38 thomasg, I flashed qemu, it does boots, but does not goes too far. Aug 07 14:41:45 xzcvczx.... you'r kidding... looking glass??? ewwww java..... Aug 07 14:41:52 daxxar: it depends on the class Aug 07 14:42:00 100m for class2 Aug 07 14:42:05 Hm, okay. What's usually on a consumer-type USB bluetooth stick? Aug 07 14:42:08 open air Aug 07 14:42:12 I'd say 100m for a class1 device Aug 07 14:42:13 And what does the neo have? class2? Aug 07 14:42:14 class 2 Aug 07 14:42:21 BryceLeo|Work: sorry i forgot the tags Aug 07 14:42:22 or 2 Aug 07 14:42:22 :P Aug 07 14:42:24 or 1 Aug 07 14:42:28 Mobile phone without Beryl will suck. Aug 07 14:42:48 openmoko without Quintan0 wont Aug 07 14:42:54 thomasg__, my image is 40M too. Aug 07 14:42:55 The internets claims class 1 =~ 100m, class 2 =~ 10m. Aug 07 14:42:55 coud someone kick him? Aug 07 14:43:03 Dude, learn to /ignore. ;-) Aug 07 14:43:04 Dmitry_Platonov, I'd wonder if not :) Aug 07 14:43:04 xzcvczx.... even with sarcasm... ewwww that's like saying "Let's put KDE on it" :P Aug 07 14:43:06 daxxar: just as I said :-) Aug 07 14:43:12 thomasg__: man, this is pointless. Aug 07 14:43:13 daxxar: the internet is right, I was wrong... Aug 07 14:43:18 Yep. Just mixed signals, so I wikipediaed it. Aug 07 14:43:20 BryceLeo|Work: i am working on that one right now Aug 07 14:43:25 but only cos some git swapped my dongle cases Aug 07 14:43:36 Hm, is there any kind of PAN roaming? :-P Aug 07 14:43:41 well, the top bit Aug 07 14:43:50 Jeez and here i was breaking my back porting Aero Aug 07 14:44:09 mmmm bubbly chocolate Aug 07 14:44:20 does anyone know if you can rotate the screen on the neo? Aug 07 14:44:27 Ryback_: yes Aug 07 14:44:31 you can Aug 07 14:44:42 Ryback_: xrandr -o 1 rotates it Aug 07 14:44:43 with pliers and a screwdriver anything is possible Aug 07 14:44:49 ScaredyCat: good to know.. thanks Aug 07 14:44:53 daxxar: thank you Aug 07 14:44:56 Works perfect. (But not for the openmoko-keyboard, only for the matchbox-keyboard) Aug 07 14:45:08 s/perfect/"$&"/ Aug 07 14:45:08 daxxar meant: Works "$&". (But not for the openmoko-keyboard, only for the matchbox-keyboard) Aug 07 14:45:11 Hrm. Aug 07 14:45:13 Silly apt. Aug 07 14:45:14 xrandr is installed Aug 07 14:45:33 xrandr -o 0|1|2|3 Aug 07 14:46:11 -sh: 1: not found\n-sh: 2: not found\n-sh: 3: not found :-( Aug 07 14:46:14 i actually like it w/s Aug 07 14:46:17 ;-) Aug 07 14:46:46 * ScaredyCat arranges for a shipment of pig manure to visit daxxar Aug 07 14:46:59 Bloody hell it's hot here. o.0 Aug 07 14:47:09 Why do we get our mad hotness the days before my exam? It's not fair! Aug 07 14:47:29 daxxar: Where are you? Aug 07 14:47:34 Norway Aug 07 14:47:38 27 degrees in the shadow :S Aug 07 14:47:57 Of course we have no AC, because Norway is darn cold, usually. Aug 07 14:48:12 ScaredyCat: trust me something much worse is currently on the way to your door Aug 07 14:48:14 All windows wide open, wearing only pants and boxers, and still it's too hot to be comfy. Aug 07 14:48:32 nor-way! Aug 07 14:48:51 That's not hot. :-) Aug 07 14:49:03 xzcvczx: if it's windows based I'll die xzcvczx Aug 07 14:49:27 ScaredyCat: oh its even better than that..... its windows ME based Aug 07 14:49:34 ozarka: If you're from Ye Olde North it is. Aug 07 14:49:35 aarrrrghhh Aug 07 14:49:35 In Texas, we call that "night". Aug 07 14:49:45 * ScaredyCat runs screaming into the night Aug 07 14:50:06 muhahahahaha Aug 07 14:50:24 you know what... Aug 07 14:50:35 my mum still uses windows ME... Aug 07 14:50:51 ... it's terrible... Aug 07 14:50:58 ScaredyCat: so was my dad until his computer completely packed it in and wouldnt boot Aug 07 14:51:05 I mean did they not think... Aug 07 14:51:24 they had windows CE, windows ME and then NT. ... Aug 07 14:51:38 did they not spot that it spelt windows CEMENT Aug 07 14:51:44 ScaredyCat: i was once playing halflife on ME quit out and had to restore windows as the mouse driver had gone awol Aug 07 14:51:46 * Dmitry_Platonov opens two more firefox windowns, but it's still too hot 8-) Aug 07 14:52:37 hmm.. does anyone know where is the neo's xserver code? (I'm searching the public svn but couldn't find it so far) Aug 07 14:52:40 Dmitry_Platonov, at what point is your boot hanging? Aug 07 14:52:52 windows ME is like no other version of windows... it's like the bits left over from all the other versions... Aug 07 14:53:14 it shows black screen, some icons on the top (gsm/gps/battery etc.) and hangs. Aug 07 14:53:30 ah, so X is alrdy. running Aug 07 14:53:42 thomasg__, yes. Aug 07 14:54:15 xzcvczx that reminds me of when i was using LightStep as my XP window manager and if iset DOD/HL/CS to OpenGL I could see through walls. Aug 07 14:54:24 how can I flash a image bigger than 32 megabyte to the neo? Aug 07 14:55:16 thomasg__, I used script from qemu-neo1973 to flash qemu. Aug 07 14:55:17 from the sd card? Aug 07 14:55:21 yes Aug 07 14:55:38 the neo every time crashes when I load the image Aug 07 14:55:43 :o Aug 07 14:55:49 Hm. Any way to get ls to enclose filenames in quotes or similar? (to e.g. see filenames with whitespace after them properly) Aug 07 14:55:51 BryceLeo|Work: thats a nice unfair advantage Aug 07 14:56:18 I tried 0x32000000, 0x48000000 and 0x600000 as addresses. the image is about 40 mb Aug 07 14:56:25 daxxar: why ffs are you naming files with a 255 at the end? Aug 07 14:56:38 well not a 255 Aug 07 14:56:41 but a space Aug 07 14:56:49 xzcvczx: I think it's a space. It was something that got clobbered when I tried applying a diff Aug 07 14:56:55 lol xzcvczx are you kidding me it was terrible, i was running into everything and couldn't really hit anyone becuase i wouldn't know ther's a wall there. I did worse seething through walls than not being able to see through walls! Aug 07 14:56:57 daxxar: oh ok Aug 07 14:57:20 BryceLeo|Work: oh so completely transparent not like 80% transparency Aug 07 14:57:46 Woot, it has a newline. o.0 Aug 07 14:58:26 if that google story is true, i suspect fic are pooing themselves right about now Aug 07 14:58:46 SpeedEvil: Does the bt chip eat a lot of power if all you do is power it on? (echo "1" > /sys/bus/platform/devices/gta01-pm-bt.0/power_on) Aug 07 14:58:58 ScaredyCat: is it true? Aug 07 14:59:05 Not that much Aug 07 14:59:06 dunno Aug 07 14:59:16 ScaredyCat: link? Aug 07 14:59:25 http://www.phoronix.com/?page=news_item&px=NTk1Mw Aug 07 14:59:53 I have it as about 17mA Aug 07 15:00:35 ScaredyCat, no idea? Aug 07 15:00:48 the .ipk package can be installed similar to .rpm, .deb in distros? Aug 07 15:01:30 Okay, not too bad. thanks SpeedEvil. Aug 07 15:01:47 interesting story. the idea of paying for airtime through web advertisements seems rediciulous Aug 07 15:01:48 in other words, what is the method of developing applications, building it, testing on the phone? application development crash course describes method to use it on qemu Aug 07 15:01:54 anywone with a wrt54gl around? Aug 07 15:02:00 not off the top of my head.. why is it such a big image ? Aug 07 15:02:12 BryceLeo|Work: I have a wrt54g, not certain if it's gl Aug 07 15:02:15 don-o:actually it is not such a bad idea Aug 07 15:02:32 consider the amount of money made these days thru web-ads Aug 07 15:02:40 daxxar do you have a custom firmware on it? Aug 07 15:03:12 BryceLeo|Work: openwrt Aug 07 15:03:21 (I actually have two, one in my apt, one at my parents place) Aug 07 15:03:56 daxxar i had one that i recently blew up and i'm still not sure if it's worth it to buy another. And it looks like if i get the L version i don't have to worry about it not working Aug 07 15:04:01 BryceLeo|Work: i have a gl with custom Aug 07 15:04:21 daxxar well... i didn'tblow it up, it started smoking and almost burned my room to cinders... Aug 07 15:04:39 BryceLeo|Work: dont overclock your new one :P Aug 07 15:04:55 xzcvczx is it right that I don't have to worry about specific revisions and I can just purchase one new and be done with it? Aug 07 15:05:04 as long as its gl Aug 07 15:05:19 gl implies linux and is effectively the same as a v4 Aug 07 15:05:29 v5+ is much harder to put custom on Aug 07 15:05:51 xzcvczx alrighty, i can accept that. I guess i'll pick one up Aug 07 15:06:07 daxxar, i usually run dd-wrt any advantage to openwrt? Aug 07 15:09:10 BryceLeo|Work: I haven't tested dd-wrt Aug 07 15:09:20 the gl has more flashram Aug 07 15:09:28 daxxar ok cool, figured i'd check to see if i was missing out on something Aug 07 15:09:33 the g has like 2-4 vs 16 i think for the gl Aug 07 15:09:47 I like openwrt, and I hear it's a real killer with X-wrt Aug 07 15:10:02 daxxar is there a web interface or just console? Aug 07 15:11:17 X-wrt ?! wtf Aug 07 15:11:49 BryceLeo|Work: Openwrt has a web interface, yes Aug 07 15:12:05 x-wrt is (mainly) an improvement of the default web interface Aug 07 15:12:10 (I use the default webinterface though) Aug 07 15:12:14 daxxar, sweet. I couldn't find any screenshots or writeup on it so i figured i'd check Aug 07 15:12:22 ok.. so it's not x for wrt :) Aug 07 15:12:43 daxxar yeah i'm not looking for anything to killer just enough that if need be i can walk my dad through fixing anything he breaks Aug 07 15:12:47 watch out on openwrt Aug 07 15:12:54 there are two distribs right now Aug 07 15:12:56 Meh, I can't find fb2png anywhere. :S Aug 07 15:13:01 white russian and kamikaze Aug 07 15:13:09 telconta1 yeah i'm just starting to read that Aug 07 15:13:12 whiterussian is what all the docs are written for Aug 07 15:13:24 and im not sure kamikaze has the web interface going yet Aug 07 15:13:33 i have kamikaze Aug 07 15:13:51 and its been a bit of silliness here and there Aug 07 15:14:06 the nvram interface has changed somehow Aug 07 15:14:17 daxxar: just use cat Aug 07 15:14:54 and so the command line is screwy too Aug 07 15:14:55 telconta1 sounds odd. Thaks for the warning Aug 07 15:15:13 cat /dev/fb0 >capture.raw Aug 07 15:15:14 ScaredyCat: But to get the raw data over to a usable format? Aug 07 15:15:25 ScaredyCat: Anyway, I used xhost + xwd Aug 07 15:15:42 I put the notes for it in the screen grab wish list discussion Aug 07 15:15:52 just use convert for the raw to png Aug 07 15:16:00 nvram doesn't seem to be where the params are stored now Aug 07 15:16:03 Oh, okay. Aug 07 15:16:05 Another WRT54GL/openwrt user here.. I was more trying to make it into a self-hosting (Debian/Gentoo..) box though, but the system was too unstable to compile sources 'robustly'. Aug 07 15:16:09 just use whiterussian and you'll be happy Aug 07 15:16:19 baird: did you see that we have a third cjb now? Aug 07 15:16:22 * cjb points at cjb_ie. Aug 07 15:16:58 :o Aug 07 15:17:02 someone moved it Aug 07 15:17:08 telconta1 good advice Thanks! Aug 07 15:17:15 cjb: "..." I was the first, though. :P Aug 07 15:17:18 hi Aug 07 15:17:24 hi to all Aug 07 15:17:26 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Screen_Shots Aug 07 15:17:28 baird: yeah, tell that to nickserv :) Aug 07 15:17:29 daxxar: Aug 07 15:17:44 That's what I followed, ScaredyCat Aug 07 15:17:54 It only mentions convert for xwd Aug 07 15:17:58 I dunno how it got there... magic I spose... Aug 07 15:18:08 i am facing the problem while installing openmoko on ubuntu 7.04, can anybody guide me Aug 07 15:18:09 huh? Aug 07 15:18:29 * SpeedEvil stabs matchboxpanel-stroke Aug 07 15:18:39 ScaredyCat, well, it's a OE image, that contains some more apps/libs as the old OM image Aug 07 15:18:51 ahh Aug 07 15:18:57 man... ok any new word on when the second set is going to ship out... last i heard william lai was talking about last week... but that doesn't seemed to have happened. Aug 07 15:19:40 mintee: Simply be grateful that the project exists. Aug 07 15:19:58 Hardware might or might not turn up sometime in the next years. Aug 07 15:19:58 SpeedEvil, well sha... Aug 07 15:20:00 mintee: Mine shipped yesterday. Aug 07 15:20:16 ozarka, what was your order number again... like 2100ish? Aug 07 15:20:34 is there anyway i can view the OpenMoko GUI on the desktop via usb0 ? Aug 07 15:20:37 I'm not sure if it counts as being in the 2nd set.. Aug 07 15:21:01 mbuf: export DISPLAY=192.168.0.200 Aug 07 15:21:04 mintee: 2742 Aug 07 15:21:11 mbuf: export DISPLAY=192.168.0.200:0 rather Aug 07 15:21:14 sweet! Aug 07 15:21:18 then err. Aug 07 15:21:36 I got an orange one. Aug 07 15:21:55 * * OM Bug 691 has been created by jorgen(AT)devsoft.no Aug 07 15:21:56 * * Terminal does not handle "special characters" properly (backspace, etc) Aug 07 15:21:56 * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=691 Aug 07 15:21:58 ozarka, i'm only 74 away from you. I got the blackish one Aug 07 15:21:59 x-window-manager may work Aug 07 15:22:10 Even better, it will arrive a few hours after I leave the country. Aug 07 15:22:22 * BryceLeo|Work sighs Aug 07 15:22:47 so someone threw up a bug for gtkterm2... but mrxvt is waiting for them Aug 07 15:23:46 daxxar: I've put an fb2png rpm on my site for dl if you want it. Aug 07 15:23:57 ozarka, you got the first email regarding payment and shipping yesterday? Aug 07 15:24:20 or before that? Aug 07 15:24:37 did anyone order the white and orange one? Aug 07 15:24:42 mintee: I got a payment email on Sat (and it showed up on my cc) Aug 07 15:25:04 I got a weird "Your issue has been resolved email" on Sat Aug 07 15:25:25 BryceLeo|Work, i have a WRT54GL, i have used both dd-wrt, and now, tomato on it without problems Aug 07 15:25:41 is it possible to we view the OpenMoko GUI through usb0 on the desktop? Aug 07 15:25:55 ozarka, icey. I just shot off an email to william asking... cause I had a problem with my Credit Card... and I know if it doesn't go thru, i probally won't hear anything about it. Aug 07 15:25:55 * * OM Bug 692 has been created by jorgen(AT)devsoft.no Aug 07 15:25:55 * * HTML-characters are substitued to entities in status messages. Aug 07 15:25:56 * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=692 Aug 07 15:26:04 in this case... no news is bad news. heh Aug 07 15:26:27 thanks jeddy3_ i think i'm gonna have to pick me up one of them Aug 07 15:26:32 mintee: and I got a tracking number last night/this morning Aug 07 15:26:42 mbuf: using a remote x session? Aug 07 15:27:09 mintee: Don't you read the mailing list? You're not supposed to ask questions. :-) Aug 07 15:27:11 xzcvczx, yes, something like that is possible? if yes, how? any links/pointers will be useful Aug 07 15:27:12 I cannot find anywhere the matchbox-stroke source. Aug 07 15:27:15 * SpeedEvil fails. Aug 07 15:27:18 mbuf: yes. Aug 07 15:27:21 slurpies are shipping ? Aug 07 15:27:29 mbuf: find out what the WM script starts. Aug 07 15:27:33 BryceLeo|Work, as you pointed out, gl is the model that should flash regardless of revisions and such Aug 07 15:27:35 slurpies? Aug 07 15:27:44 locate TS Aug 07 15:27:47 oops Aug 07 15:27:51 ozarka. heh... thanks for the info Aug 07 15:28:00 jeddy3_ that's what i was reading but I always like to make sure Aug 07 15:28:02 ScaredyCat: no locate in om Aug 07 15:28:02 Sorry about that bug, I set it as a dupe now. Aug 07 15:28:18 mintee: np Aug 07 15:28:30 ScaredyCat: Nah, I used the xwd method, and I run ubuntui Aug 07 15:28:55 BryceLeo|Work, you can still brick it if not careful, though ;) Aug 07 15:29:06 SpeedEvil, how ? Aug 07 15:29:15 BryceLeo|Work: What do you mean about 'mrxvt'? Is it supposed to be the new default term? Aug 07 15:29:35 jeddy3_: they are a real btch to brick tho Aug 07 15:29:40 daxxar: it doesn;t matter, extract from the rpm .. :) Aug 07 15:29:52 * ScaredyCat blames xzcvczx Aug 07 15:30:16 xzcvczx, true :) Aug 07 15:30:44 * xzcvczx woners what he did to get blamed for Aug 07 15:30:51 daxxar, it's not supposed to be, it's just lighter a bit quicker and "just works" Aug 07 15:30:58 BryceLeo|Work: Okay Aug 07 15:31:23 daxxar, i've also been using rxvt and family since i started on linux. I can be a tad sentimental Aug 07 15:31:48 hmm, i can register to the network, and answer phonecalls with neo, but i get NO CARRIER when trying to phone out Aug 07 15:31:58 BryceLeo|Work: ;-) Aug 07 15:32:02 * Kero smiles at the sight of a tiny, sharp-looking penguin on his neo screen Aug 07 15:32:27 Has anyone had any luck with reducing/ignoring the jitter of the cursor on taps? Aug 07 15:32:37 SpeedEvil, i found this page, http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Window_Manager_Startup, but, how can the GUI be displayed through ssh over usb0 on the desktop? Aug 07 15:33:14 Does mrxvt support tabs, BryceLeo|Work? Aug 07 15:33:24 daxxar yup Aug 07 15:33:30 Neato Aug 07 15:33:42 mbuf: you start an X server on the host, and then point the window manager on the neo at it Aug 07 15:33:46 daxxar if you want ipks i've got them built http://pics.and-a-half.com/ipk/mrxvt/ Aug 07 15:33:49 DISP Aug 07 15:33:57 depends and all Aug 07 15:34:05 export DISPLAY=192.168.0.202:0 or something Aug 07 15:34:16 SpeedEvil, i see Aug 07 15:34:19 then fvwm Aug 07 15:34:47 or whatever the window manager is on the neo - and the startup scripts in the window manager should take over and launch all the crap Aug 07 15:34:56 morining everyone :) (morning for me ;) ) Aug 07 15:35:09 ok, so it's a tarball too daxxar :) Aug 07 15:38:19 anywone wana find what version gtkterm is on the eno? Aug 07 15:38:21 neo* Aug 07 15:38:35 eno ... brian... Aug 07 15:38:47 searching.... Aug 07 15:39:10 gtkterm2 v0.2.3 Aug 07 15:39:11 In 1996 Brian Eno, and others, started the Long Now Foundation to educate the public into thinking about the very long term future of society Aug 07 15:39:51 thanks daxxar, i figure i'll take a quick peek around the source and see if it's a moderately easy patch Aug 07 15:40:09 Great =) Aug 07 15:47:48 Anyone set up BNEP-networking? Aug 07 15:48:11 pand -nc gives me pand[1508]: Bluetooth PAN daemon version 3.9 pand[1508]: Connecting to 00:02:72:C9:56:4E pand[1508]: bnep0 connected Aug 07 15:48:21 But if I do ifconfig bnep0, it says: ifconfig: bnep0: error fetching interface information: Device not found Aug 07 15:49:03 does nobody know how I can flash a image bigger than 40 mb from the microSD to the NAND? Aug 07 15:49:06 Aah. pand was running as !root on the server. Aug 07 15:55:00 anyone tried building OM 2007.2 Aug 07 15:55:48 I always get the error libgsmd_svn.bb failed Aug 07 15:56:16 So I hooked my Neo to a USB port (no image put on it, yet). How do I see whether it is charging ? Aug 07 15:56:57 you don't, really, when it's powered off Aug 07 15:57:18 rest assured however that it should be charging ;] Aug 07 15:57:20 yeah, somewhat of a design flaw. Aug 07 15:57:28 or at least trickle-charging. Aug 07 15:57:31 You box it up and send it to me Kero, I'll tell you Aug 07 15:58:02 the gta02 will have leds, wonder if they can be used as indicators... Aug 07 15:58:29 and yeah, trickle-charging, but charging anyways Aug 07 15:59:36 just image it then take look at the battery readings every now and again Aug 07 15:59:42 hi @ all Aug 07 16:00:21 daxxar it looks like gtkterm should be fixed witha re-comp after the gtk update, for now i must be off to lunch Aug 07 16:00:30 next Q, do I have to build dfu-util from source? Aug 07 16:00:48 buildhost.openmoko.org seems to be rather empty :( Aug 07 16:01:14 Kero: http://chooseopen.com/openmoko/build/dfu-util Aug 07 16:02:28 mjr: the PCF chip has support for blinking LEDs, even in suspend mode Aug 07 16:02:38 assorted patterns, and speeds. Aug 07 16:03:47 gtg cu Aug 07 16:03:49 daxxar: thx! had that site already, but hadn't realized dfu-util was on it :) Aug 07 16:07:29 * Kero wonders who decided that apache should shorten filenames as it shows them in a directory listing... Aug 07 16:08:07 I don't know but they should be shot Aug 07 16:08:27 SpeedEvil, yep Aug 07 16:08:48 actually, are we sure its the server and not the web browser? Aug 07 16:08:52 I never checked Aug 07 16:10:16 SpeedEvil: Just because the PCF supports it doesn't mean that where the lights are Aug 07 16:10:31 s/lights/LEDs Aug 07 16:10:55 Of course. Aug 07 16:11:26 SpeedEvil: on the host PC, i should export DISPLAY=192.168.0.202:0.0, and then I ssh into root@neo, and then run x-window-manager through ssh to get the GUI on the desktop? Aug 07 16:12:03 If you've got X forwarding setup, that should work. Aug 07 16:12:13 actually it shouldn't Aug 07 16:12:15 You need to have an X server. Aug 07 16:12:29 SpeedEvil: on the host PC, right? Aug 07 16:12:45 no - ont he neo you set the DISPLAY variable to the address of the X server on the host Aug 07 16:13:00 SpeedEvil: ohh ok Aug 07 16:13:01 And then authorise the X server on the host to accept clients. Aug 07 16:13:24 dropbear should support ssh -X though too (if with the ssh overhead) Aug 07 16:13:50 regardless, you don't set the Neo as the display on the host if you want to run apps the _other_ way around Aug 07 16:14:41 i want to run x apps on the Neo and the view the output on the host desktop; instead the qemu display, i would like to use the Neo GUI output Aug 07 16:14:54 Interesting behaviour, devices with relatively low battery will boot all the way but not enumerate and therefor not fully charge. Of course they then die as the battery quickly depletes. Aug 07 16:14:55 *instead of the qemu Aug 07 16:15:08 After overnight charge, they enumerate fine. Aug 07 16:16:05 is this first charge? Aug 07 16:16:26 no, but after batteries went dead after 2 days of power off Aug 07 16:16:46 power is apparently not fully power off but gsm modem still on. Aug 07 16:17:00 is anyone here experiencing cdc_ether kernel crashes when connecting the Neo to Debian Etch? Aug 07 16:17:21 i'm trying to rationalize the failure to enumerate (required for full charging) when the CPU is able to fully boot. Aug 07 16:22:34 Writchie: odd Aug 07 16:22:55 have you tried unplugging once booted, and replugging? Aug 07 16:22:57 Hmm. DHCP doesn't work over BNEP? o.0 Aug 07 16:23:03 it doesn't show at all on lsusb? Aug 07 16:23:08 Ah, perhaps no broadcast? :-) Aug 07 16:23:22 I do seem to recall something about the gsm module needing to be turned off separately, so if that's failed... Aug 07 16:23:39 Pull the battery. Aug 07 16:23:53 It then draws ~0mA after the battery is turned off. Aug 07 16:23:55 err Aug 07 16:24:00 It then draws ~0mA after the battery is plugged back in. Aug 07 16:24:10 turn battery off. Aug 07 16:24:17 sorry, I'm feeling horrible. Aug 07 16:24:46 if you simply turn the phone off using hte power menu, then it draws 30mA Aug 07 16:24:53 whihc drains the battery in 30-40 hours Aug 07 16:25:44 * Kero sees the 500mA line scrolling by on his Neo :) Aug 07 16:25:58 scrolling by where? Aug 07 16:26:06 kernel loading Aug 07 16:26:59 Does anyone know where the source for matchbox-xstroke is - I have no idea. Aug 07 16:27:07 * SpeedEvil is trying to generate strokes. Aug 07 16:31:28 ...and ssh-ed into my Neo, Yeah! Aug 07 16:33:16 whoa, whole /var is in tmpfs ! Aug 07 16:33:41 writing /var/log to jffs2 is a great way to make the jffs2 explode. Aug 07 16:33:44 :) the first ssh is lways the best Aug 07 16:33:58 :D agree... Aug 07 16:34:00 cjb: I know, that's why I was looking :) Aug 07 16:34:12 but I'm wondering what backup will survive in /var/backups :) Aug 07 16:34:21 SpeedEvil: no worries, not that important. It just doesn't seem to want to enumerate with low battery voltage, even though its high enough to run beyond full bootup. Aug 07 16:34:30 can't get over the wall Aug 07 16:34:46 I saw this also on first charge. Aug 07 16:34:50 Odd. Aug 07 16:35:14 yeah, mine booted after a few mins ,,, Aug 07 16:35:27 but it does appear to be a 500ma charge Aug 07 16:35:31 I haven't gone into the power supplu config in detail enough to comment. Aug 07 16:35:57 never get a 500ma charge, because by the time it works properly the bats are pretty charged Aug 07 16:36:39 draws about 260ma which indicates to me a full battery Aug 07 16:38:03 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[P1_Owners]] [[MacOS_X]] [[SH1_FAQ]] [[User:Fuzzy]] Aug 07 16:39:48 SpeedEvil: For your gprs test yesterday, where you using pppd straight to the modem? Aug 07 16:39:57 yes. Aug 07 16:40:05 It _was_ working fine. Aug 07 16:40:10 It's now not. Aug 07 16:40:17 how now Aug 07 16:40:58 I've tried re-flashing, in the hope it's corruption, I'm then going to reinstall Aug 07 16:41:19 corruption of flash? Aug 07 16:41:26 of something Aug 07 16:41:40 There is also the issue that the script shouldn't have worked... Aug 07 16:42:16 I do not unfortunately have copies of it in the working state, as I diddn't backup before trying to get it working Aug 07 16:43:37 i haven't found the precise difference between the IP and PPP settings. Aug 07 16:43:51 it seems PPP is always used to provide L2 to the device. Aug 07 16:44:05 I suspect PPP extends L2 though the network to the other end. Aug 07 16:44:12 IP does not. Aug 07 16:44:13 It was certainly "ip" Aug 07 16:44:43 the IP as PDP type still uses PPP as transport Aug 07 16:45:15 in other works, it seems its always PPP to the modem Aug 07 16:45:29 As I understand it. Aug 07 16:47:12 i'm still trying to figure out who is doing/maintaining/architecting gsmd/libgsm Aug 07 16:48:54 Writchie, all I know is that Harald wrote gsmd Aug 07 16:49:00 the app switcher uses a *very* green color :) Aug 07 16:49:11 Yup. Aug 07 16:49:26 that's all know as well, except that some others have submitted patches Aug 07 16:50:23 Harold is far to busy to do all he is doing. Aug 07 16:50:47 this leaves gsmd/libgsm as a gaping hole Aug 07 16:51:11 wouldn't be so bad except that this device to some people is a "phone" Aug 07 16:51:28 a phone? unpossible! Aug 07 16:52:56 there are two philosophies, its a phone with an attached desktop, or a desktop with an attached modem. Aug 07 16:53:49 "If you upload rootfs image that is smaller that previous one it won't work - you need to attach to bootloader, erase NAND and then upload your rootfs first:" Is true also for kernel? Aug 07 16:54:06 yuk Aug 07 16:55:16 cu -l /dev/ttyACM0 Aug 07 16:55:17 nand erase kernel Aug 07 16:55:17 ? I don't have the debug board, is ok? Aug 07 16:55:30 no, the kernel doesn't need erasing Aug 07 16:55:44 ah ok Aug 07 16:55:51 the rootfs usually doesn't but it could happen, if the size worked out perfectly it might see old stuff Aug 07 17:01:28 i did xhost + on desktop; then ssh into new from desktop; run x-window-manager, and i get only top and bottom menubar, not the main application panel area; do i need to add anything more on desktop to get the full GUI view on the desktop? Aug 07 17:02:36 oh please don't do xhost + on your desktop Aug 07 17:02:59 mjr: ok, so what is the preferred method; i would like to run X applications on the Neo, and view and test the output from the desktop Aug 07 17:03:43 how about authorizing the neo only, not the whole world Aug 07 17:03:51 xhost +192.168.0.202 or whatever you have Aug 07 17:04:02 mjr: i see Aug 07 17:04:44 mjr, and then? Aug 07 17:05:34 I haven't looked at the neo X session scripts; apparently you got part of it going already, it'd go the same with that more limited authorization Aug 07 17:05:52 mjr: i ssh into it and run openmoko-dialer and it runs on the phone rather than on the desktop, where do i set DISPLAY then? Aug 07 17:07:13 export DISPLAY=desktop:0 Aug 07 17:07:36 SpeedEvil: thanks, and where do i type that? Aug 07 17:07:47 Before starting stuff on the phone Aug 07 17:08:00 stuff you want to display on the desktop Aug 07 17:08:09 re-hi all Aug 07 17:08:48 SpeedEvil: i ssh into the Neo from the desktop, type export DISPLAY=desktop:0, run openmoko-dialer and it opens on the Neo Aug 07 17:09:22 what happens if instead of openomoko-dialer, you run xev? Aug 07 17:10:13 If I want to test OM2007.2, what do I have to change? get bitbake latest version and remove the svn overlay's path from BBPATH? is that all? Aug 07 17:10:59 SpeedEvil: xev: unable to open display '192.168.0.200:0' - which is the desktop IP address Aug 07 17:11:17 and what revision of the monotone db should I use? Aug 07 17:11:20 (sorry to interfere) Aug 07 17:11:21 I though you said you got the top and bottom bars running on the desktop already Aug 07 17:11:40 mjr: yes that worked without even setting any DISPLAY stuff Aug 07 17:11:42 anyway, your X server may well not be listening to TCP connections; many distributions ship that way by default for security Aug 07 17:11:56 mjr: but, i would like to view the complete phone; i see Aug 07 17:12:13 mbuf: in the ssh session, that you started the window manager in - hit ctrl-z, then 'bg' Aug 07 17:12:20 then run openmoko-dialer Aug 07 17:12:29 mbuf, then you probably used ssh's X forwarding. That will work. Why didn't you run other stuff also through that? Aug 07 17:12:30 anyone knows how to check capacity of battery? There is something interesting in /sys/devices/platform/s3c2410-i2c/i2c-0/0-0008 but which is correct? Aug 07 17:12:43 there is no capacity Aug 07 17:12:50 well Aug 07 17:13:00 apm will give you a rough indication. Aug 07 17:13:13 SpeedEvil: how to check it? Aug 07 17:14:04 i just bought battery that says 2300mAh and I realy doubt that ithas so much mAh.. Aug 07 17:14:09 type apm Aug 07 17:14:22 well, you actually can't do that. Aug 07 17:14:23 SpeedEvil: [1] x-window-manager cannot open display: check your DISPLAY variable Aug 07 17:14:35 mbuf: dunno Aug 07 17:14:49 SpeedEvil: ok Aug 07 17:15:14 can't you do it like you would wiht xnest Aug 07 17:15:43 xnest isn't on the phone Aug 07 17:16:00 so it's the same case running it, or running a normal servefr Aug 07 17:16:19 cayco: you can only read out the battery voltage. Aug 07 17:16:28 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Getting_OpenMoko_working_on_host_with_Xoo Aug 07 17:16:30 squalyl: I followed this: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/OpenMoko2007.2 now I'm compiling. Aug 07 17:16:35 Starting X nexsted server Aug 07 17:16:57 'apm' gives a rough percentage. Aug 07 17:17:16 Basically - 80%-50% is really 90%-10% Aug 07 17:17:52 With bitbake 1.8.6 I'm getting a lot of these messages "Message:no such table: BB_URLDATA" Aug 07 17:18:02 anyone know what this is related to? Aug 07 17:18:17 xnest doesn't need to be on the phone Aug 07 17:18:30 cayco: Where do you find a 2300mAh battery? Aug 07 17:18:49 No, but if it's not, it's exactly the same procedure to start using it as any server. Aug 07 17:19:00 cayco: also - the battery almost certainly won't actually charge. Aug 07 17:19:04 (in the neo) Aug 07 17:20:30 Tyrae1: allegro.pl :) polish auction site Aug 07 17:20:56 Tyrae1: i realy doubt it has so much mAh but it should be more thatn 1400mAh Aug 07 17:21:21 oh, actualy it says 2600mAh Aug 07 17:21:37 what size is it Aug 07 17:21:59 finally got my hands on my neo :) can't wait to play with it Aug 07 17:22:14 Writchie: it's standar BL-5C Aug 07 17:22:45 unlikely to be 2600 mAhr in that volumes Aug 07 17:22:56 the .ipk can be treated similar to .deb? so if we re-build a new package, we can simply install it on the Neo and test it? or, what is the preferred method of building, testing it on the phone? Aug 07 17:23:26 Writchie: i know, but it should be more than default one... anyway it's only about $9... Aug 07 17:23:40 BB_URLDATA errors are apparently related to bitbake-HEAD... with 1.8.6 it's ok. Aug 07 17:24:56 i think you'll be luckly to get 1200 maHr out of it Aug 07 17:25:45 Writchie: hmm, we'll se Aug 07 17:26:15 mbuf: just try : ssh -l root -X -v phone Aug 07 17:28:23 ScaredyCat: cool :) now xev works! Aug 07 17:29:22 ScaredyCat: if i want to test other GUI, like x-window-manager, openmoko-dialer do i need to add any settings? Aug 07 17:29:33 now be a good mbuf and document it on the wiki.... Aug 07 17:30:03 you should be able to fir up x-window-manager Aug 07 17:30:09 fire Aug 07 17:30:45 * mbuf heads for the wiki Aug 07 17:32:04 nice backlight, can set it to really low brightness Aug 07 17:34:05 ScaredyCat: running x-window-manger, i see only top and bottom menu bar; Aug 07 17:34:22 give it a sec Aug 07 17:35:21 Kero: Though I notice that for me 'zero' is around 204 Aug 07 17:35:22 OpenMoko taskmanager appears, but the top menubar is cluttered; clicking on it says, no popup for type 1; return Aug 07 17:35:54 anyone know what battery is compatible with the gta01? Aug 07 17:36:02 SpeedEvil: I see 200, at least. lemme try lower... Aug 07 17:36:15 BryceLeo|Work2: discussed in detail on the wiki Aug 07 17:36:30 pjz where on the wiki i've only found the part on the us bleads Aug 07 17:36:38 pjz and how to make the force charger Aug 07 17:37:04 * BryceLeo|Work2 sighs Aug 07 17:37:09 it is possible to connect directly a Aug 07 17:37:11 nvm, just had to shorten the search Aug 07 17:37:14 BryceLeo|Work2: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973_Battery Aug 07 17:37:29 it fades off completely at 190 Aug 07 17:37:33 ops, I press enter. Aug 07 17:37:39 BryceLeo|Work2: which is the first hit if you search for 'battery' Aug 07 17:37:45 SpeedEvil: maybe my eyes are a tiny bit better than yours :) Aug 07 17:39:04 thank pjz i found it Aug 07 17:39:51 is it a LED backlight ? Aug 07 17:40:19 SpeedEvil: xrandr -o left, turned the complete X display side ways! lol Aug 07 17:40:58 ScaredyCat: message was for you, xrandr -o left, turned X display sidewards, completely Aug 07 17:41:33 hehh Aug 07 17:42:34 mm, "toppoly and philips" displays. Aug 07 17:43:20 ScaredyCat: finger-demo opens correctly, which is ok for my needs Aug 07 17:44:06 are you using Xnest too ? Aug 07 17:44:29 ScaredyCat: no, just ssh -l root -X -v phone Aug 07 17:44:50 what is the terminal application called? Aug 07 17:44:57 right... but if you start xnest : xterm Aug 07 17:45:03 oopps Aug 07 17:45:22 Xnest :1 -dpi 283 -geometry 480x640+86+295 Aug 07 17:45:24 on pc Aug 07 17:45:46 ssh to phone twith ssh -l root -X -v phone Aug 07 17:46:03 export the phone display to -> pc Aug 07 17:46:17 i see Aug 07 17:46:26 export DISPLAY=192.168.0.200:1.0 Aug 07 17:46:43 then on the phone type x-window-manager Aug 07 17:47:00 you might need to allow ports... Aug 07 17:47:06 good, so it looks like the bl6c should work in the gta01 Aug 07 17:47:07 possibly xhost it Aug 07 17:47:25 ScaredyCat: i think it is best if you document this stuff on wiki; Aug 07 17:48:11 I want you to because a) you'll learn it b) you'll see the bits that I miss, since it's your 'first time' Aug 07 17:48:41 and 3) I'm a lazy c*&t Aug 07 17:48:51 that was cat... Aug 07 17:49:02 :D Aug 07 17:49:06 lol Aug 07 17:51:31 ScaredyCat: lol, and change your name too Aug 07 17:52:06 :D Aug 07 17:53:56 ScaredyCat: appreciate your help Aug 07 17:54:01 later Aug 07 17:54:06 no probs... Aug 07 17:54:10 hope it helps Aug 07 17:54:12 oh.. Aug 07 17:54:19 oh well.. Aug 07 17:57:42 Ah - the american patent system at its best. Aug 07 17:58:00 * SpeedEvil has just been reading of the Xerox/Palm bunfight over Graffiti/Unistrokes Aug 07 17:58:43 [ a) then b) then 3) :D ] Aug 07 17:58:44 yay Aug 07 17:59:10 (sorry for the lag there was a scrolling problem T_T) Aug 07 17:59:21 * anrp adds an IV. on Aug 07 17:59:25 LOL squalyl :D Aug 07 17:59:46 ^^ Aug 07 18:00:09 hello Aug 07 18:02:08 hello Aug 07 18:02:24 yes squalyl .. it was deliberate - for effect .. :/ Aug 07 18:05:27 how long the phone lasts on a full battery? just curious Aug 07 18:05:50 depends on what you're doing Aug 07 18:05:59 if you're going flat out, maybe 2-4 Aug 07 18:06:09 everything asleep, at least a day Aug 07 18:06:10 if anyone is having Battery problems on the gta01 and you want a charger for just the battery http://tinyurl.com/37k3mf should work Aug 07 18:06:14 yes thats true.. but suppose I just keep the ram and the gms modem powered on Aug 07 18:06:30 *gsm Aug 07 18:06:37 ok. Aug 07 18:06:49 it's not developed to the point where you can do that yet though Aug 07 18:06:53 moar software needed Aug 07 18:08:32 really? Aug 07 18:09:01 when it is asleep with (sleep 1; echo mem > /sys/power/state) command then what else is powered on Aug 07 18:09:42 well You can do that, and it works (mostly) Aug 07 18:09:48 but that's not really a solution :P Aug 07 18:10:05 yes thats true. :) . Aug 07 18:10:45 also, two out of three times i tried that the kernel panic'd, so... Aug 07 18:11:08 I never had the problem though i tried only twice till now Aug 07 18:11:24 mostly I shut it down Aug 07 18:15:31 I'm having trouble building uboot-gta01. is there a way of excluding it from the make? Aug 07 18:18:44 ermm. Aug 07 18:19:08 has anyone else spotted 'openmoko-chordmaster' ? Aug 07 18:29:54 I'm searching for a PHP bittorrent tracker. Seems to be not so easy to find. Any hint? Aug 07 18:32:43 anyone had any issues w/ gtkcombobox.c compiling Aug 07 18:33:04 http://pastebin.com/m2b693549 Aug 07 18:37:43 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[P1_Owners]] [[OpenMoko_under_QEMU_on_MacOSX]] [[OpenMoko2007.2]] [[User:PhlintPhour]] [[OpenMoko_talk:Searching]] [[OpenMoko:Searching]] Aug 07 18:42:42 deepank_: it seems to be at least the modem. Suspend to memory takes about 30mA - which includes the GSM modem. Aug 07 18:42:50 I need to do some more testing. Aug 07 18:43:07 I hope that lots of stuff is turned on. Aug 07 18:43:14 so it can be turned off. Aug 07 18:43:32 If 30mA is really the load with only the modem, that would be very dissapointing. Aug 07 18:45:09 yes it would be. But I think there must be other stuff turned on Aug 07 18:45:21 I'm unsure that there is not. Aug 07 18:45:28 Um, doesn't 30mA already equal around 4 days? Aug 07 18:45:39 No. Aug 07 18:45:44 1200/30 = 40 Aug 07 18:45:55 40/24 = 1.7 or so Aug 07 18:45:58 <2 days? Aug 07 18:46:22 hmmh Aug 07 18:46:29 At the moment. Aug 07 18:46:36 that makes me wonder how other phones manage to use so little power Aug 07 18:46:40 wow.. thats, eh.. not very good is it? :/ Aug 07 18:46:45 I'd say all that you can say for certain about the power use is that it's 'to be discovered'. Aug 07 18:47:03 it is basically going to come down? Aug 07 18:47:09 Well. Aug 07 18:47:19 1/7 kernel power managment techniques is implemented. Aug 07 18:47:57 pretty much work to be done yet. Aug 07 18:48:03 Basically. Aug 07 18:48:10 And then there is all the userspace stuff. Aug 07 18:48:15 Idle, but connected to network, probably 30mW Aug 07 18:48:24 In P0 and P1 phones, the battery has a total of 1200mAh, at 3.6V. This is approximately 3500mWh Aug 07 18:48:35 For example, in normal use on a call, talking, there is no need to have the screen and CPU on. Aug 07 18:48:43 It can be in suspend-mem. Aug 07 18:48:49 am I missing something? Aug 07 18:48:53 yes.. i get the point. Aug 07 18:48:55 * * OM Bug 693 has been created by mail(AT)mmontour.net Aug 07 18:48:56 * * Invalid timeval passed to setitmer() Aug 07 18:48:57 * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=693 Aug 07 18:49:23 madwoota: measured power use of 100mW Aug 07 18:49:30 Hadaka: even Aug 07 18:50:10 Hadaka: Speedevil said 30mA. So power = 30 * 3.6 Aug 07 18:50:37 so someone measured the power current being 30mA? Aug 07 18:50:43 Yes. Aug 07 18:50:44 Me. Aug 07 18:51:04 Ah, right - because the figure was the same as 30mW in the wiki, I just thought it was a typo Aug 07 18:51:08 how do you measure it. being ccurious Aug 07 18:51:21 ehm. why is there moko11 in /lib/modules when the kernel is moko10... Aug 07 18:51:25 Splice into the battery->neo connection. Aug 07 18:51:34 Series resistor -> DMM +scope Aug 07 18:51:40 Kero: Because your rootfs doesn't match your kernel. Aug 07 18:51:54 Kero: Your rootfs is newer than the kernel, so you've got the wrong modules. You need to upgrade kernel or downgrade rootfs. Aug 07 18:52:19 Kero: The chooseopen.com-mirror only has moko10 kernel, but the newest rootfs is moko11 Aug 07 18:52:21 SpeedEvil: do you have your measurements up somewhere to be seen? have you done other measurements? Aug 07 18:52:22 Strange. Aug 07 18:52:56 yes please put it up on wiki :) Aug 07 18:53:08 someone needs to learn to group kernel + rootfs :) Aug 07 18:53:19 Hadaka: Multiply by 5.7 to get current in mA. Aug 07 18:53:37 29.5 - screen off cpu on Aug 07 18:53:47 and I need to learn to build my own images at some point (but not now) Aug 07 18:53:53 gsm on - 29.8 Aug 07 18:54:02 gsm on + logged into network - 30 Aug 07 18:54:09 call connected - 54 Aug 07 18:54:15 bt on +3 Aug 07 18:54:21 backlight on +13 Aug 07 18:54:36 backlight just takes 13 mA Aug 07 18:54:37 suspend-RAM - 5.5 Aug 07 18:54:39 no Aug 07 18:54:42 multiply by 5.7 Aug 07 18:55:04 so So around 30mA in suspend. Aug 07 18:55:07 SpeedEvil: great work! Aug 07 18:55:17 I need to actually do something more than this. Aug 07 18:55:29 I'm going to tonight, and get it nicely presented on the wiki Aug 07 18:55:43 that will be great Aug 07 18:55:45 I need a 'modem off' in suspend-RAm number Aug 07 18:56:09 It certainly does recieve calls in suspend-RAM, in the 30mA mode. Aug 07 18:56:20 but gives 'busy' as it hasn't been setup to wake Aug 07 18:56:40 SpeedEvil: also, could you verify that if GSM/bluetooth/whatever is left powered on, and openmoko is shutdown - do they still keep on drawing power or are they powered off as well Aug 07 18:57:09 If you shutdown with power off on the menu after clicking, then the modem is _not_ turned off. Aug 07 18:57:46 The safest way is to either power off from u-boot, or to pull the battery for a moment after it's off. Aug 07 18:58:06 SpeedEvil: so the OS can shut down, CPU off, even if GSM is on? man, that's weird Aug 07 18:58:20 The modem is connected directly to the battery. Aug 07 18:58:30 wire in a Big Red Switch :) Aug 07 18:58:35 ah, well that explains it ;) Aug 07 18:59:01 is there anything else that could be left on? bluetooth is via usb - something else? Aug 07 18:59:11 bluetooth can't. Aug 07 18:59:20 It can't wake the CPU in this version. Aug 07 18:59:33 nods Aug 07 19:00:27 well, I'm hoping power managements so good that I can actually have the battery last for one day with what I want Aug 07 19:00:49 The guesses in the power managment page seem not _too_ far off. Aug 07 19:01:15 which is mostly: gps location every minute atleast, gprs always on, data packets a couple per minute, cpu on (mhz may be low but not slow mode), bluetooth on but idle Aug 07 19:02:48 I'd be good with slow mode and bt just on-demand... Aug 07 19:03:29 but, getting the battery to last for 24h with that would mean 145mW - doesn't sound too easy :( Aug 07 19:04:45 <|R> i wonder if having an auto-detected OTR style encryption be possible over GSM with other Moko friends... Aug 07 19:04:53 <|R> that would rock ;) Aug 07 19:05:58 do you mean voice encryption? Done to death, short of it: Need GSM data connection, will have some latency. Or GPRS with insane latency / push-to-talk. Aug 07 19:06:36 for IM, the usual encrypted IM protocols should do Aug 07 19:08:07 leaving... good night to all Aug 07 19:08:50 where does module string in python come from? :) Aug 07 19:09:26 python-stringold - 2.4.4-ml0 - Python String APIs [deprecated] Aug 07 19:09:52 n Aug 07 19:09:57 oups Aug 07 19:09:59 sory Aug 07 19:10:39 mjr, aah thanks Aug 07 19:28:59 humm.. after playing couple days with my Neo i must say i am not very impressed with X11 + GTK as UI for mobilephone. fortunately i can just use my own, which is nice Aug 07 19:29:13 any specifics? Aug 07 19:29:17 * Kero wonders why openembedded-essential needs texlive :) Aug 07 19:29:48 * mjr finds no fault with X11+GTK, but the finger-usability needs improving (apparently underway, at least some of it) Aug 07 19:30:15 Stephmw: it just feels somewhat clunky. yeah, gonna do some finger usability tests next week when i begin my neo-hacking Aug 07 19:31:06 gonna do also some performance tests with X11+GTK and framebuffer, though with some hardware acceleration that wont be that important Aug 07 19:31:46 imho the system needs a button for selecting: i wanna use my finger / i wanna use a stylus Aug 07 19:32:00 it is nearly impossible for me to quit programs without stylus Aug 07 19:32:32 what about the Palm approach? (apps don't need explicit closing) Aug 07 19:32:35 but i do like the theme, pretty good for this stage, needs just some polishing Aug 07 19:32:50 raynet, the power button seems to quit focused program Aug 07 19:32:55 a short press Aug 07 19:33:16 mjr: i though it brought the "taskmanager" into focus Aug 07 19:33:47 Stephmw: does palm quite the apps or are they left in the background (as in Symbian)? Aug 07 19:34:11 I have the impression that palm runs everything in-place and never really quits them... Aug 07 19:34:17 but I'm not sure Aug 07 19:34:38 hi Aug 07 19:34:48 palm seemed like it did some sort of weird task-switching to me.. Aug 07 19:34:52 when I used it.. Aug 07 19:35:09 Palm apps were designed to not keep state in ram Aug 07 19:35:16 so killing them had little effect Aug 07 19:35:20 ah Aug 07 19:35:31 run out of ram? kill the process :) Aug 07 19:35:33 they uses some system service for storing state? Aug 07 19:35:39 or data Aug 07 19:35:50 as far as I could tell Aug 07 19:35:55 raynet: i agree. it is clunky.. gnome full on may be overkill. also, some apps should be "single instance only" since doubling them does little and only chews up more resources Aug 07 19:35:56 I didn't delve too deeply Aug 07 19:36:13 Very different model for Palm apps, which is why they are difficult to port to Linux... Aug 07 19:36:25 it's a very nice approach though Aug 07 19:36:34 let the user decide which app they want around Aug 07 19:36:40 also i hope that some programs can be given uber-priority, so that when eg. someone calls, every other program can be instantly halted so you can answer the call Aug 07 19:36:43 or something like that Aug 07 19:37:06 call handling has to be handled as near RT as possible Aug 07 19:37:13 a1r, there are "SingleInstance=true" lines in desktop entries; haven't checked if they're listened to Aug 07 19:37:23 i want to use my fingers mainly... just want the basics (like iphone [ dare i say it ? ] ) and want them to work well Aug 07 19:37:23 Call handling isn't really RT Aug 07 19:37:24 on the Moko, that is Aug 07 19:37:31 Yep, a good model -- and there's no reason that a similar framework to do that can't be built on top of Linux either. It just needs interested people to do it. Aug 07 19:37:32 mjr: thanks .. i'll check into that .. Aug 07 19:37:32 a half second either way makes no difference. Aug 07 19:37:46 SpeedEvil: I disagree Aug 07 19:37:46 not on all apps, though Aug 07 19:37:50 maybe more could use them Aug 07 19:38:01 is there some kind of entry level todo list? something more objective than the wishlist Aug 07 19:38:01 defer: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (and also SH1, SH1_FAQ, Neo1973, Developer_preview and Neo1973_Hardware#GTA01Bv4 pages) (Hopefully these links answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) Aug 07 19:38:11 SpeedEvil: it's atrocious user experience to have any delay on the core feature Aug 07 19:38:14 Stephmw: Why? Does it really matter to you if a call takes 0.5s more to ring? Aug 07 19:38:22 Ah - I don't mean what you mean I think. Aug 07 19:38:35 SpeedEvil: no, it matters if your call takes 0.5s to go from you pressing to being able to use it Aug 07 19:38:37 I mean strict latency on the phone-UI app. Aug 07 19:38:41 * Stephmw nods Aug 07 19:38:42 I mean, one assumes that only one dialer would be needed, but the dialer's desktop file says SingleInstance=false :] Aug 07 19:38:51 i think the actual interaction with the phone must be speedy but waiting for a call can take longer Aug 07 19:39:06 It's not an issue if the phone takes 0.5s to wake up and tell you that you've got a call is what I mean. Aug 07 19:39:18 SpeedEvil: ok, that much I agree with Aug 07 19:39:20 have you people used symbian based phones? there's crashing dial tones, horrible lagging user interface, phone calls lose sound, etc. etc. - being better than that is no big hurdle, finetuning can be left for later Aug 07 19:39:26 SpeedEvil: but when i click, dial, it needs to be instant Aug 07 19:39:29 counter Aug 07 19:39:29 http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter Got it, get yours from openmoko.com (and read topic) (1795;252) Aug 07 19:39:31 0.5s from user click to stuff happening is _bad_. Aug 07 19:39:41 any sluggishness there isnt good Aug 07 19:39:42 Unless of course it's unavoidable network delays. Aug 07 19:39:47 Hadaka: I strongly disagree on that Aug 07 19:39:59 Hadaka: leaving that to later can lead to big architectural issues Aug 07 19:40:05 is the wm in use just the one from gnome ? Aug 07 19:40:15 But GTK+ X is not the bottleneck. Aug 07 19:40:19 Hadaka: to build something that is merely "less horrible" than something else does not make it acceptable. Aug 07 19:40:31 There are lots of games that _easily_ achieve this sort of performance. Aug 07 19:41:24 there's a time/benefit trade-off obviously - if there's enough time and manpower, anything can be done - being better than symbian already clears that hurdle, it's probably more useful to concentrate on other things Aug 07 19:41:27 "terminate called after throwing an instance of 'informative_failure'" <== "informative", suuure... :( Aug 07 19:41:39 i'd like a fatfingers interface .. just plain simple and big easily pressed buttons for fingers... no stylus needed, no small menus, no small text Aug 07 19:41:56 I think people are forgetting how fast a 266Mhz processor is. Aug 07 19:42:10 Yes, it's slow, compared to current desktop stuff. Aug 07 19:42:31 Hadaka: I'm going to get religious on the call handling stuff - for me it's got to be a perfect experience. I'm sick of new phones on the market bundling the kitchen sink of feature ranges but fucking up call handling Aug 07 19:42:36 However, I've been using X on P100 pretty recently, and with the appropriate software it's just fine. Aug 07 19:43:04 Key is to avoid swapping, get important apps resident in the background. Aug 07 19:43:18 SpeedEvil: current desktop is just bloated, by old WindowMaker has been always snappy, even with 200MHz pentium (no-mmx) Aug 07 19:43:30 before that i used even faster FVWM Aug 07 19:43:30 * SpeedEvil is on PII/300 ATM. Aug 07 19:43:40 * SpeedEvil is on fvwm95 Aug 07 19:43:41 i used to run x11 on a 66Mhz 486 with 8M ram no problem. some software has gotten bigger in the last 14 years : ) those were the days of slackware on floppy disk sets : ) Aug 07 19:43:43 SpeedEvil: we have a phone that has more CPU power than mainframes of the 70's ? Aug 07 19:43:44 * ewon is on a pIII/700 Aug 07 19:43:47 :) Aug 07 19:43:48 SpeedEvil: how feasible is XIP with current flash speeds? Aug 07 19:43:54 Stephmw: not. Aug 07 19:44:01 well - not with the current flash chips. Aug 07 19:44:06 in the neo. Aug 07 19:44:16 I figured... ah well. Aug 07 19:44:19 XIP from flash can be done with other sorts of - more expensive - flash. Aug 07 19:44:52 However, as a first-cut, simply mlocking openmoko-dialer and libs into RAM isn't horrible. Aug 07 19:44:57 a1r, ahh yes, the good old days. when I upgraded from 4->5 X became almost usable. 8 was great Aug 07 19:45:07 that's fair Aug 07 19:45:34 SpeedEvil: how does the Neo's flash compare to fast SD cards? what throughput is it capable of? Aug 07 19:45:43 * SpeedEvil dds. Aug 07 19:45:48 I've been really happy with the speed stuff runs on the Neo - I guess I'll be a lot happier with GTA02 :) Aug 07 19:45:49 ah, still need to test swap over NFS over GPRS on Neo Aug 07 19:46:03 raynet, nonono, iSCSI! Aug 07 19:46:07 mosix would be fun too Aug 07 19:46:07 raynet: GPRS? Infidel! In my days, we used SMS/IP Aug 07 19:46:20 IP/SMS even.. Aug 07 19:46:28 * mmazur planning to be listening to radio stations via gprs Aug 07 19:46:28 NAND - 4.5s to cat /usr/bin - 12M Aug 07 19:46:29 Stephmw: i dont have flatfee SMS just flatfee GPRS/EDGE/3G Aug 07 19:47:03 raynet: don't think anyone does these days... but just to put it in perspective... there is indeed an IP/SMS implementation around Aug 07 19:47:19 some guys apparently did IP/SMS for a while here when the telcos had unlimited SMS plans... They quickly capped them to a thousand or so... Aug 07 19:47:22 didn't ac write it? Aug 07 19:47:28 SpeedEvil: ouch. that's _really_ slow Aug 07 19:47:34 mjr: i bet :) Aug 07 19:47:58 SD - 86M, 24s Aug 07 19:48:02 but nowadays there's cheap flat gprs/etc so that's okay Aug 07 19:48:18 i recall when one finnish telco advertised free SMS, after 3 days they refined it to 1000 per month and you werent allowed to send them by any automated system Aug 07 19:48:27 This is the included SD Aug 07 19:48:47 raynet, yeah, I think we're talking about the same thing :] Aug 07 19:48:52 hrmm, not a huge difference Aug 07 19:49:21 hopefully some photog with a fast SD will try it Aug 07 19:49:27 the bus might be the bottleneck Aug 07 19:49:35 3Mb/s or so on both NAND and SD then Aug 07 19:50:22 Hmm. Aug 07 19:50:30 is cat buffered? Aug 07 19:50:45 My neo has crashed. Aug 07 19:50:58 woops Aug 07 19:50:59 After doing the cat of the mtdblock device Aug 07 19:51:08 dd rather Aug 07 19:51:18 And yes, I got if and of round the right way :) Aug 07 19:51:38 haha Aug 07 19:51:46 and SD is dead. Aug 07 19:51:51 i'm building with mokomakefile and ncurses just failed, any tips? Aug 07 19:51:52 nice Aug 07 19:52:16 ok, looking at SD card perfs (in cameras), SD should be able to reach 9MB/s with expensive cards... ~3MB/s is the cheapest Aug 07 19:52:22 Is anything builtin to ash? Aug 07 19:52:28 echo * doesn't work to ls Aug 07 19:53:15 SpeedEvil, I've reported SD access bugs, I've only had the driver crash on writes though Aug 07 19:53:19 I can't think of anything meaningfull to do. Aug 07 19:53:30 well a bug Aug 07 19:54:06 SpeedEvil: so, taking the max possible for SD... I don't think 9MB/s is really fast enough for XIP either Aug 07 19:54:20 XIP has a technical meaning. Aug 07 19:54:21 SpeedEvil: if XIP comes, it'll have to be onboard flash Aug 07 19:54:39 It means that the CPU accesses the flash as it does RAM. Aug 07 19:54:43 At comparable speeds. Aug 07 19:55:00 SD is on a seperate bus, and orders of magnitude slower - it can't do this. Aug 07 19:55:03 doesn't have to be comparable, as long as it's acceptable Aug 07 19:55:21 Indeed - but it's not on an appropriate bus. Aug 07 19:55:23 but it clearly is neither on SD Aug 07 19:55:59 no, it's not - but even in devices designed for fast throughput (pro cameras), they don't go past 9MB/s Aug 07 19:56:17 they go for larger ram caches instead Aug 07 19:56:17 As a comparison, RAM is 600MB/s or so Aug 07 19:57:57 Hello Aug 07 19:58:16 interesting... looks like someone's trying to pass off on the Neo name and design... http://www.pixmania.co.uk/uk/uk/580499/art/neo/galeo-4-gb-mp3-player.html Aug 07 19:58:28 HistoryOnTheRoad: howdy Aug 07 19:58:33 Crashed _hard_. Aug 07 19:58:43 needed to pull battery. Aug 07 19:59:07 Question about versions ... how do I know if my kernel and rootfs are compataible versions? Aug 07 19:59:07 alloo. Aug 07 19:59:15 SpeedEvil, mmh. For my sd problems reboot was enough. Aug 07 19:59:17 They work? Aug 07 19:59:59 For some subset of "work"? :) Aug 07 20:00:37 My neo boots, but I see complaints about "missing" stuff, so my instinct is my kernel doesn't match the rootfs modules Aug 07 20:00:50 HistoryOnTheRoad: I saw that. Aug 07 20:00:59 I needed to wipe my NAND before DFUng Aug 07 20:01:16 anyone knows qemu images for running openmoko on my PC? can't seem to find them... Aug 07 20:02:02 SpeedEvil: I'm guessing I'm using the kernel from the factory .. I downloaded the latest rootfs from the openmoko site though Aug 07 20:02:46 im getting error when building, using make openmoko-devel-image Aug 07 20:02:50 NOTE: Task failed: Fetch failed: http://downloads.openmoko.org/sources/git_www.denx.de.git.u-boot.git._8993e54b6f397973794f3d6f47d3b3c0c98dd4f6.tar.gz Aug 07 20:03:27 That file doesn't exist Aug 07 20:03:41 (I'm using the dfutil on a mac if that makes any diff) Aug 07 20:05:20 locales generation is broken? Aug 07 20:06:14 we should set ENABLE_BINARY_LOCALE_GENERATION = "0" in the local.conf? Aug 07 20:06:23 Is there a way to start the keyboard without ssh=ing into the neo? Aug 07 20:06:32 yes Aug 07 20:06:36 tap white rectangle Aug 07 20:06:42 If the Neo asks for my PIN that probably means my SIM is working, right? Aug 07 20:06:49 Yup. Aug 07 20:07:07 Just don't click 'ok' too often. You'll block your sim card like.. er... some ppl I know. Aug 07 20:07:10 tap right side for picking keyb or stroke recognier. Aug 07 20:07:23 * ScaredyCat points at mmazur Aug 07 20:07:30 mmazur: been there done that Aug 07 20:07:45 * SpeedEvil is currently playing with the stroke recogniser. Aug 07 20:07:58 http://www.usenix.org/events/usenix03/tech/freenix03/full_papers/worth/worth_html/xstroke.html is a useful reference. Aug 07 20:08:51 Though /me wishes it had a direction recogniser too. Aug 07 20:08:59 ckuethe, yeah, that.. er.. friend of mine kind of has his puk somewhere else. Aug 07 20:09:28 lol Aug 07 20:09:48 and that's how i learned that i had to call my carrier to get the PUK/PUK2 codes Aug 07 20:09:55 it'd be nice if we got the stroke recognizer working properly, then the neo could call the paramedics automatically Aug 07 20:10:17 The Wiki states that the dialer now works. Since when should this be the case? Is it only true for 2007.2? I don't seem to be able to make a call with my built from around the 3rd of August. Aug 07 20:10:19 * SpeedEvil stabs mjr with a parrot. Aug 07 20:10:19 mjr: no, get the touchscreen to recognize being stabbed... Aug 07 20:10:28 It works for me. Aug 07 20:10:48 openmoko: 03mickey * r2662 10/trunk/oe/packages/uboot/uboot-gta01_svn.bb: uboot: try downloading file from buildhost instead of downloads.openmoko.org (which seems to be unsynchronized) Aug 07 20:10:48 though it should probably recognize slices and lacerations too Aug 07 20:11:20 * SpeedEvil has an idea about medical ultrasound, and decides not to share it. Aug 07 20:11:52 hmh, apparently mickeyl is fixing the mokomakefile build problem Aug 07 20:13:16 me, I'm just hoping to manage to build a working openmoko-today at *some* point Aug 07 20:13:54 * * OM Bug 694 has been created by  Aug 07 20:13:55 * * uboot-gta01-1.2.0+svnnow-r13_0_2632_0-do_fetch Aug 07 20:13:56 * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=694 Aug 07 20:14:25 But can we get an X-ray machine for GTA03? Aug 07 20:15:35 if this rootfs isn't completely screwed, I think I'm going to fix the damn segfault instead of trying to build a working version Aug 07 20:16:15 mjr: You can get one of those x-ray usb dongles and connect them right now to your GTA01!! Aug 07 20:17:19 mickey|bbl: Working? Aug 07 20:17:28 nbd_, ping Aug 07 20:17:42 tHe_IkkE, but I have to provide external 5V/500mA :I Aug 07 20:18:07 stefan|camp: only shortly. tomorrow i'll complete the simple power management and button handling task. how's it going w/ your and daniels tasks? Aug 07 20:18:39 mickey|bbl: I will start mine again right now. Temperature is better at night at the camp. Aug 07 20:18:54 SpeedEvil: does gllin make a logfile? Aug 07 20:19:01 mickey|bbl: zecke suggested you will also come for a short visit? Aug 07 20:19:15 SpeedEvil: or could gllin be configured to make a logfile? Aug 07 20:19:28 stefan|camp: yeah, if all goes well I'll come on thursday evening and will stay there for until friday evening Aug 07 20:19:39 mickey|bbl: (tasks) I'll start with the category stuff and switch over to keyboard popup afterwards. Aug 07 20:19:55 mickey|bbl: Cool. zecke is already right to me. :) Aug 07 20:19:55 stefan|camp: ok. you have been in contact with the guys and know about the mapping file? Aug 07 20:20:09 mickey|bbl: http://svn.o-hand.com/repos/poky/trunk/meta/packages/matchbox-desktop-sato/matchbox-desktop-sato_svn.bb Aug 07 20:20:10 :) Aug 07 20:20:15 stefan|camp: sounds like a big party. greetings from me Aug 07 20:20:15 grrrr, I think I didn't shut down my neo completely :S Aug 07 20:20:20 Nice to steal the stuff from poky. ;) Aug 07 20:20:27 yeah Aug 07 20:20:33 mickey|bbl: greetings back Aug 07 20:20:33 * HistoryOnTheRoad plugs it in and waits for later Aug 07 20:20:42 thanks Aug 07 20:20:52 mickey|bbl: For the keyboard stuff I need to ask ross again Aug 07 20:21:07 we have a problem with new today builds. it SIGSEGVs starting from 20070802 Aug 07 20:21:13 20070801 is ok Aug 07 20:21:19 mickey|bbl: yeah, I've seen that Aug 07 20:21:23 Thomas said because we don't ship eds-calendar Aug 07 20:21:32 mickey|bbl: Something more about it? Aug 07 20:21:35 if you have time, please look into that. maybe comparing our eds build in OE w/ pokys Aug 07 20:21:51 seen psplash? Aug 07 20:21:53 mickey|bbl: hmm, ok. I'll give it a try. Aug 07 20:22:49 i'm talking to Sean later tonite to see whether we can come up with a concrete time plan for the announcement/snapshot image release/oe migration Aug 07 20:23:01 will be back in a couple of hours, cu later Aug 07 20:23:10 mickey|bbl: excellent! you are doing a great job :) Aug 07 20:24:12 hrm. where are the svn repos http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/How_to_run_OpenMoko_Apps_on_PC is mentioning... Aug 07 20:25:03 oh btw, an official build of the u-boot that actually erases the rootfs properly would be great Aug 07 20:25:50 hadara, i don't touch my u-boot :D Aug 07 20:26:06 me neither - but that's one fix that I might touch it for Aug 07 20:26:28 I hate having to type 'nand erase rootfs' and fear if I accidentally press enter before getting to the rootfs part Aug 07 20:26:50 why do u erase it anyway? Aug 07 20:27:56 mdt: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/commitlog/2007-August/002274.html Aug 07 20:28:28 can someone paste me the standard openmoko taskfile for bitbake? Aug 07 20:28:48 hadara, no, i meant why do u have to erase the rootfs? Aug 07 20:29:11 mdt: because of the bug referenced there - that is, I get jffs2 errors on boot Aug 07 20:29:30 mdt: http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=419 Aug 07 20:29:30 mickey|bbl: Sorry, power failure. Geeks need to much power. Aug 07 20:31:22 The true geek can run from a car battery for a week. :) Aug 07 20:32:52 maybe the battery from that electric formula-1 car made from a zillion li-ion laptop batteries. Aug 07 20:32:54 hadara, what does that mean for the rootfs when the flashing succeeded? is it 3MB smaller than expected? Aug 07 20:33:02 every geek should always have a hand-crank usb charger Aug 07 20:33:13 mdt: it means files are corrupted, it will show errors and nothing works Aug 07 20:33:57 hadara, after a flash of a big file... yes, i understand. but if the flash worked ok... what then? Aug 07 20:34:28 mdt: like I said, flashing works fine, but when booting the phone, errors are reported and things are broken Aug 07 20:35:01 Hadaka, have you tried erasing the rootfs and kernel space on the nand? Aug 07 20:35:02 hadara, you didn't get my question: whats with other rootfs Aug 07 20:35:10 i have had to do that to get a clean flash Aug 07 20:35:16 mdt: I still don't get you :( Aug 07 20:35:41 daMaestro: I was just complaining about that problem, nand erase rootfs works - and I'm hoping for an officially compiled u-boot which has that fixed - I don't dare to try my own Aug 07 20:35:44 hadara, i flashed my phone once and don't wont to do that again because i use ipkg and feel fine Aug 07 20:36:04 hadara, question is: is there something wrong with my rootfs now (or later :D ) Aug 07 20:36:23 hadara, the rootfs flashed fine and boots wonderful Aug 07 20:36:24 Hadaka, yeah.. i've had to nand erase clean rootfs and kernel when flashing Aug 07 20:36:28 mdt: no, only if you flash a new one and have filled the old one rather completely Aug 07 20:36:56 hadara, ah, okay, so jffs2 does the erase for those parts? Aug 07 20:37:33 mdt: the problem is that when flashing a *new* rootfs, the old rootfs must be erased - and by default u-boot doesn't erase the very tail of the old rootfs - so if there's anything there, there will be crud left behind Aug 07 20:37:43 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[OpenMoko:Searching]] Aug 07 20:37:51 hadara, understood that, yes Aug 07 20:38:06 mdt: if you aren't flashing a new rootfs, there's nothing to handle - there's no crud anywhere Aug 07 20:38:21 mdt: u-boot isn't even active when the phone is booted normally Aug 07 20:38:34 WOOOHOOOOOOOO! openmoko-today works! Aug 07 20:38:36 hadara, i know Aug 07 20:38:42 Hadaka, ? Aug 07 20:38:56 sry for asking again, but could someone paste me the standard openmoko taskfile for bitbake? Aug 07 20:39:05 daMaestro: ...on my hand built OM2007.2 images... Aug 07 20:39:08 ahh Aug 07 20:39:24 i'm close to just wiping my build sys and starting over Aug 07 20:39:31 Hadaka, I have own om2007.2 images, but my rootfs is about 40 mb big Aug 07 20:39:31 i'm still getting the issues with uboot Aug 07 20:39:33 thomasg__: what do you mean by the 'standard' images? I can give you OM2007.2 .bb file if that's what you mean Aug 07 20:39:39 thomasg__: yup, so it is Aug 07 20:39:52 I'm wondering why it is so big Aug 07 20:39:57 thomasg__: more stuff Aug 07 20:40:05 according to my task-openmoko.bb it doesn't contain as much stuff Aug 07 20:40:07 thomasg__: completely different distribution Aug 07 20:40:11 how do i build OM2007.3? Aug 07 20:40:12 err Aug 07 20:40:14 how do i build OM2007.2? Aug 07 20:40:25 daMaestro, blank openembedded without openmoko overlay Aug 07 20:40:47 * daMaestro checks the wiki Aug 07 20:41:02 Hadaka, when I try to flash the 40mb image, the neo crashes :( Aug 07 20:41:25 thomasg__: when booting the image you mean? Aug 07 20:41:28 no Aug 07 20:41:34 during the flashing Aug 07 20:41:52 the neo simply turns of after a while at ext2load ... Aug 07 20:41:52 thomasg__: how does it crash? dfu-util error or an actual crash or something? Aug 07 20:42:00 I do not use dfu-util Aug 07 20:42:09 I'm flashing from microSD to NAND Aug 07 20:42:10 ah, then I can't help you Aug 07 20:42:30 ok, maybe I should try dfu-util Aug 07 20:42:45 * HistoryOnTheRoad peeks in Aug 07 20:42:53 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/OpenMoko2007.2 Aug 07 20:43:04 and the om2007.2 bb-file is $OMDIR/org.openembedded.dev/packages/tasks/task-openmoko.bb, isn't it? Aug 07 20:43:22 If I get a network registration, does that mean the GSM part is seeing my SIM card? Aug 07 20:43:34 HistoryOnTheRoad, yes Aug 07 20:43:51 if you see the network registration you should also get some signal-quality messages Aug 07 20:44:28 then enter your pin via AT+CPIN="$YOURPIN" Aug 07 20:44:37 after that you should be able to do a call Aug 07 20:45:01 thomasg__: I suppose Aug 07 20:45:07 ok, I do, too :) Aug 07 20:45:29 is the image working for you? Aug 07 20:45:37 I don't think I have a PIN ... I don't on my usual phone Aug 07 20:45:46 thomasg__: this latest image is now, yes Aug 07 20:46:20 can you tell me if the efl are included? :) (e.g. libedje.so) Aug 07 20:46:40 wow. that SVN repo svn.openmoko.org is half empty... Aug 07 20:47:11 root@fic-gta01:~$ find / -name "*edje*" Aug 07 20:47:11 root@fic-gta01:~$ Aug 07 20:47:20 ok :) Aug 07 20:48:33 Hmmm. If my Neo was in sleep and ran the battery out, if I plug it in how long will it be before I can power it on? Aug 07 20:48:46 HistoryOnTheRoad, 5-10 minutes Aug 07 20:48:48 thomasg__, Hadaka .. ok so to build OM2007.2 i need to trash everything that mokomakefile did? and work through that/those wikipages for om2007.2? Aug 07 20:49:23 daMaestro, rwhitby would recommend you to use the nslu2-makefile :) Aug 07 20:49:28 thomasg__: took several hours for me... Aug 07 20:49:39 which is where? Aug 07 20:49:40 W00tomgbb, what? Aug 07 20:49:47 hmh, I haven't tried that Aug 07 20:49:54 daMaestro, I would tell you, but mit firefox is dying at moment... Aug 07 20:50:27 http://www.nslu2-linux.org/wiki/Development/MasterMakefile ? Aug 07 20:50:37 should be right, yes Aug 07 20:51:25 http://www.nslu2-linux.org/Makefile seems more correct Aug 07 20:51:33 on reliably... Aug 07 20:51:40 thomasg__: If the battery runs out, it takes hours on trickle charge to get the phone to turn the thing back Aug 07 20:51:53 Read the lines the other way around... -_-' Aug 07 20:51:54 W00tomgbb, not for me Aug 07 20:52:06 and it was running out of power several times here :) Aug 07 20:52:15 So, what's your trick? :D Aug 07 20:52:41 if it doesnt work after 10 minutes, remove the battery, the simcard and the usb cable Aug 07 20:52:52 then wait a minute and it will work. that always helped for me Aug 07 20:53:08 thomasg__: Thanks. Does the host have to be USB 2.0, or will 1.1 work there too? Aug 07 20:53:13 (before it will work you have to put the battery and simcard back :) ) Aug 07 20:53:22 my host has usb 2.0 Aug 07 20:53:35 Neo is a USB 1.1 device, it doesn't matter Aug 07 20:53:50 well, I don't know what power is specified for usb 1.1 Aug 07 20:54:02 so maybe it does matter Aug 07 20:54:11 HistoryOnTheRoad: Sometimes it can take several hours to charge the battery enough. Aug 07 20:54:22 i dont find the page anymore mentioing the cable to use the neo as master on usb-bus... Aug 07 20:54:31 it will not fast charge until it enumerates Aug 07 20:54:39 mdt, yeah it was retconned Aug 07 20:54:42 Writchie, I haven't discovered anything like this, and my neo was running out of battery at least 10 times Aug 07 20:54:43 hi there guys Aug 07 20:54:54 Writchie: grrr, I'm not usually that patient :P Aug 07 20:54:59 mjr, retconned? Aug 07 20:55:00 running out of battery as in 2 days Aug 07 20:55:19 retroactive continuity, written out of existence Aug 07 20:55:48 I have had to charge my neo for a couple hours as well after draining the battery fully Aug 07 20:56:15 thomasg__: Does the AT+ PIN part have to be done, even if I don't usually use a PIN code for my SIM card? Aug 07 20:56:30 HistoryOnTheRoad, I don't know, but I don't think so Aug 07 20:56:36 no Aug 07 20:56:45 ah, I forgot: you also have to do AT+COPS Aug 07 20:57:01 Well, I did get a connect and some signal level notices Aug 07 20:57:10 than you can try to call via ATC123456789; (123... is the number, and dont forget the ; after it) Aug 07 20:57:32 but dialout doesn't work, and dial to my number is a "busy/no answer" transfer right away Aug 07 20:57:59 thomasg__: It's not like that in the wiki, If I recall Aug 07 20:58:31 for me this way always worked: Aug 07 20:58:42 Should the dialer (2007 from 3rd of August) work, or do I have to use the manual way? Aug 07 20:58:53 well great, X crashed Aug 07 20:59:07 ATE1 - AT+COPS - AT+CPIN="PIN" - ATCnumber; Aug 07 20:59:15 Hadaka: I hate when Y crashes too. :P Aug 07 20:59:27 ;) Aug 07 20:59:57 Is anyone aware of delivering times ? I mean are there some phones in the stocks? Aug 07 20:59:57 thomasg__: Ok, What does E1 and COPS do? (The others I know) Aug 07 21:00:12 e1 = echo Aug 07 21:00:16 * HistoryOnTheRoad puts all the phones in the stocks Aug 07 21:00:20 cops = register with the cops Aug 07 21:00:34 More seriously - register with the network. Aug 07 21:00:44 cops = cell operators iirc Aug 07 21:00:52 More seriously - register with any network your SIM is authorised to use in your location. Aug 07 21:01:10 oh btw, just out of curiosity - what is needed to be able to call 911/112? Aug 07 21:01:13 bedboi: There is a shipment supposed to come to CA, USA for August, from what I was reading at one point. I can't remember details, though. Aug 07 21:01:29 without sim card, that is Aug 07 21:02:06 I should have remembered E1 (Doh!!) Aug 07 21:02:08 Hadaka: A change of legislation in the UK. Aug 07 21:02:11 Cops ... :P Aug 07 21:02:15 To require operators to allow it. Aug 07 21:02:41 I think I was using the "first" mode Aug 07 21:03:01 hmh, I think it's just about the other way in Finland - having a phone which doesn't allow emergency calls without a sim card is dubious Aug 07 21:03:18 bedboi: If you order now, you'll have to wait at least until September 10. If you already ordered, it depends if your order is still in the mid-August shipment. Aug 07 21:03:39 ah ok. that's quite bad. Aug 07 21:03:40 O == antenna on Aug 07 21:03:53 R == register with network Aug 07 21:04:01 D(string) == dial Aug 07 21:04:01 IIRC emergency call without sim will work in US Aug 07 21:04:16 and Canada, supposedly Aug 07 21:04:26 at least for 911 and 112 Aug 07 21:04:27 W00tomgbb: so i think I will place an order for GTA02 release Aug 07 21:04:34 call back may work as well Aug 07 21:04:35 but my question was pretty much that what does one have to do on the AT command layer to be able to do an emergency call without sim Aug 07 21:05:10 ATD112; out to do it if you're that bold Aug 07 21:05:34 you always get called back, at least if you have a SIM Aug 07 21:05:41 this happens a lot with 999 Aug 07 21:05:56 hi everyone. I'm still trying gsm, so don't flame me "it isn't ready yet": does anyone get the following: Aug 07 21:05:56 at+cops=? Aug 07 21:05:56 +CME ERROR: SIM wrong Aug 07 21:05:56 at+cops=0 Aug 07 21:05:56 +CME ERROR: network not allowed - emergency calls only Aug 07 21:05:57 aleflamed: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (and also SH1, SH1_FAQ, Neo1973, Developer_preview and Neo1973_Hardware#GTA01Bv4 pages) (Hopefully these links answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) Aug 07 21:06:36 aleflamed: are you ussing an AT&T SIM Aug 07 21:06:53 no, it is orange (in israel - maybe it is different then orange in us) Aug 07 21:06:54 heh I think I got my answer there Aug 07 21:07:25 you might want to try re-inserting the SIM Aug 07 21:07:28 Hadaka: I don't know if the dialler allows it yet (GUI piece) Aug 07 21:07:42 Did that at least 5 times by now (ok, not that large a number, but enough) Aug 07 21:07:48 there are many problems with the AT&T 3G SIMs in the US. Aug 07 21:07:58 is you sim for a 3G phone? Aug 07 21:08:08 HistoryOnTheRoad: well it's good if it doesn't - I don't want to call 112 while developing :) Aug 07 21:08:14 I'm not sure - is samsung SGH-X200 3G? googling Aug 07 21:08:25 but it's definately a AT&T fault. I use it with a T-Mobile USIM (germany) Aug 07 21:08:27 (it's pretty old) Aug 07 21:09:15 btw. is there a difference between dfu-util (openmoko) and dfutool (bluez)? Aug 07 21:09:23 uh, presumably Aug 07 21:09:38 given that bluez == bluetooth, and USB dfu-util has approximately nothing to do with bluetooth Aug 07 21:09:56 they are probably both dfu (device firmware update) clients, one for USB and the other for bluetooth Aug 07 21:09:58 Some USB dongles reportedly support DFU. Aug 07 21:10:01 but unfortunately similarly named Aug 07 21:10:04 aleflamed: is the SIM marked 5V? Aug 07 21:10:15 SpeedEvil: I've used some that do. Really quite a few do. Aug 07 21:10:28 It would be nice to flash the phone by bluetooth :) (But I don't think that is supported yet) Aug 07 21:10:52 Writchie: I think it isn't 3G. Can you tell? http://www.phonearena.com/htmls/Samsung-SGH-X200-phone-p_1322.html Aug 07 21:11:22 ok, more general question while I'm waiting for my phone to charge ... anyone actually made a call on the Neo yet? :) Aug 07 21:11:23 the samsung is not 3G Aug 07 21:11:23 Writchie: anyway, what has that got to do with "SIM Wrong" or the other error message? Aug 07 21:11:54 Writchie: I don't really want to open the phone and find out.. it says "SIM+" on it, I don't think it says anything else. Aug 07 21:12:48 Writchie: there are other error codes for missing sim (according to the spec), but I don't know what "SIM Wrong" /means/. Does anyone? Aug 07 21:13:41 going to catch some Z. Aug 07 21:21:29 HistoryOnTheRoad, yes Aug 07 21:21:40 HistoryOnTheRoad, made and received Aug 07 21:22:26 i even got web browsing working Aug 07 21:24:58 daMaestro: Now you are going to make me jealous. Do you have a SIM card with a PIN? Aug 07 21:25:10 no, no pin Aug 07 21:25:32 Are you using the dialer GUI app or doing it manually? Aug 07 21:25:37 both work Aug 07 21:25:56 I believe you, i just want to replicate it ;) Aug 07 21:26:19 start basic and get it to call Aug 07 21:26:43 btw, nothing really started working until i built my own image and then erased the rootfs and kernel and flashed it again Aug 07 21:26:50 nothing from buildhost really worked well for me Aug 07 21:27:13 i'm trying om2007.2 now Aug 07 21:27:13 Well, that isn't encouraging. :S Aug 07 21:27:17 Can you share your binaries? Aug 07 21:27:39 i could sure, it would take most of the evening to upload to a server with a good link Aug 07 21:27:56 oh, wait.. i just trashed the om build dir in favor of om2007.2 Aug 07 21:28:05 if that builds i can upload the images somewhere Aug 07 21:28:25 I'd appreciate that! Aug 07 21:28:33 i'm thinking of building a live image that has a full build env already populated Aug 07 21:28:47 My image booted, but I think I have a kernel/rootfs mismatch Aug 07 21:28:48 so you just run the live cd and can update when needed Aug 07 21:29:23 my OM2007.2 image is finally ready Aug 07 21:29:27 and it doesnt work :) Aug 07 21:29:31 if i changed my rootfs a lot on the device - can i use dfu to read the whole image, flash something other rootfs for testing and flash the first rootfs back later? Aug 07 21:29:37 borg_, darn. Aug 07 21:29:45 i get this nice new booscreen Aug 07 21:29:58 b/boo/boot Aug 07 21:30:10 it runs till the end Aug 07 21:30:14 and then it gets stuck Aug 07 21:30:17 i can ping it Aug 07 21:30:24 but there is no ssh Aug 07 21:30:27 damn Aug 07 21:30:40 well. i'm off for lunch; i just launched a build in screen on my build vm Aug 07 21:31:41 is there a possibility to start it without the new start screen? Aug 07 21:32:17 Hadaka, to use dfu-util I have to start the usb-mode in u-boot, correct? Aug 07 21:32:46 thomasg__: correct Aug 07 21:32:50 Question: When I run the ARM QEMU version of OM, all the icons work fine. When I run x86 chroot'ed (via Xephyr) a lot of the icons show up as red X documents. Anyone know what needs to be done to have the icons show up? Aug 07 21:34:04 borg_, I just wonder why dfu-util --list only shows Found Runtime: [0x1457:0x5119] devnum=108, cfg=0, intf=2, alt=0, name="USB Device Firmware Upgrade" - and not the single DFUs (boot, rootfs, ...) Aug 07 21:34:25 thomasg: it always does that Aug 07 21:34:33 just download and it will switch itself Aug 07 21:34:42 use the names for the -a option (kernel, rootfs) Aug 07 21:35:12 rwhitby, k, thx Aug 07 21:35:19 hey woglinde Aug 07 21:35:27 hi stephwm Aug 07 21:35:36 running dfu-util as user (not root) shouldn't be a problem, right? Aug 07 21:35:45 the reason is cause there is more than one usb config, and the dfu config is different from the usb serial acm0 config, so it has to switch Aug 07 21:35:48 you should have rights on the devices Aug 07 21:35:56 otherwise dfu-utils will fails Aug 07 21:36:49 Question: When I run the ARM QEMU version of OM, all the icons work fine. When I run x86 chroot'ed (via Xephyr) a lot of the icons show up as red X documents. Anyone know what needs to be done to have the icons show up? Aug 07 21:40:32 hi people. I was wondering.. which X server are you guys using? kdrive? Aug 07 21:41:04 yeah Aug 07 21:41:27 where can I find the source code? Aug 07 21:41:37 upstream? Aug 07 21:42:18 mjr: ^ Aug 07 21:43:10 bitbake -c unpack xserver-kdrive Aug 07 21:44:38 woglinde: k, thanks Aug 07 21:45:04 ryback if you are firm enough with bitbake Aug 07 21:46:30 hm, dfu-util makes the whol thing really easier Aug 07 21:49:14 woglinde: what do you mean? Aug 07 21:49:47 ryback what you didnt unterstand? Aug 07 21:57:33 woglinde: "if you are firm enough with bitbake" Aug 07 21:57:51 bitbake is the tool which builds all Aug 07 21:58:00 even xerver-kdrive Aug 07 21:58:10 woglinde: I know that, but what do you mean by "firm enough"? Aug 07 21:58:24 yeah, my own 2007.2 is booting :) Aug 07 21:58:29 ryback okay than forget what I said ;) Aug 07 21:58:29 thanks again for all the help :) Aug 07 21:58:30 Ryback_: put your foot down if it wants to stay up late. Aug 07 21:59:13 ryback sorry didnt want offend you Aug 07 21:59:15 LarstiQ, woglinde: got it now. sorry, not a native speaker :-) Aug 07 21:59:21 thomasg__, tell about the differences. Aug 07 21:59:31 woglinde: don't worry, you didn't :-) Aug 07 21:59:33 thomasg__: are you getting behind the new start screen? Aug 07 21:59:40 Ryback_: did you get my joke then? Aug 07 21:59:46 LarstiQ: yep Aug 07 21:59:49 good :) Aug 07 21:59:51 borg_, yes, I do, but it seems it is only loading the top bar Aug 07 21:59:58 mh Aug 07 22:00:17 I can see the icons (gsm, usb, ...) but nothing else Aug 07 22:00:18 one step further then me ;) Aug 07 22:00:28 do you have ssh access? Aug 07 22:00:33 let my try Aug 07 22:00:34 *me Aug 07 22:01:55 borg_, yes, I have Aug 07 22:02:09 nice! Aug 07 22:02:10 so so Aug 07 22:02:10 :) Aug 07 22:02:17 what about this rumour google using openmoko? Aug 07 22:02:27 i think getting google sponsorship would be the cats meaow Aug 07 22:02:37 holycow, it's that: rumour. Aug 07 22:02:46 holycow hm I only heard that they want to made a phone Aug 07 22:02:46 * HistoryOnTheRoad jumps for joy Aug 07 22:02:50 but nothing more Aug 07 22:02:53 aha Aug 07 22:03:02 and I dont think they will use openmoko Aug 07 22:03:02 woglinde, that's all that is known :) Aug 07 22:03:14 and I'm sure they won't use a open platform Aug 07 22:03:17 well tossing a few billion at openmoko really would be cool Aug 07 22:04:03 hm the tossed some dollars for summer of code Aug 07 22:04:11 woglinde: hey Aug 07 22:04:16 oh he Aug 07 22:04:18 woglinde: do you want to get your phone fixed? Aug 07 22:04:19 I'm sure openmoko will become a success without google (and that's what I whish sean, harald and the rest of the team: the success and that without google or another huge company) Aug 07 22:04:24 woglinde, ah you particapated in that? sweet Aug 07 22:04:35 holycow no I am to lame Aug 07 22:04:38 thomasg, indeed Aug 07 22:04:48 zecke I thought no network on the camp Aug 07 22:04:52 HistoryOnTheRoad: is she still in prison? ;) Aug 07 22:05:05 I've run into this error trying to compile openmoko using mokomakefile, any clues? http://rafb.net/p/l8mHvB10.html Aug 07 22:05:05 woglinde: oh, it's fine. :) Aug 07 22:05:11 zecke you can do what you wont besides break it Aug 07 22:05:15 want Aug 07 22:05:17 woglinde: At least today. :) Aug 07 22:05:38 he stefan Aug 07 22:05:51 hi woglinde Aug 07 22:05:59 bbiab Aug 07 22:06:07 hm tommorrow it should rain and thunder Aug 07 22:06:18 I hope yu guys will survive Aug 07 22:08:43 bye Aug 07 22:09:41 thomasg__: i can see the panel now too :) Aug 07 22:09:50 grats :P Aug 07 22:09:50 LarstiQ: No, it booted once Aug 07 22:09:52 :D Aug 07 22:10:02 repectively just the icons ;) Aug 07 22:10:13 but i can allready klick on the gsm icon Aug 07 22:10:22 mh Aug 07 22:10:30 Mukunda_ i had similar problem an hour ago (havent had time to look at it yet) Aug 07 22:10:33 haven't tried, I forgot my stylus in my car :) Aug 07 22:10:39 :D Aug 07 22:10:40 have you done the: make update-makefile ; make update ; make setup Aug 07 22:10:42 (script) openmoko-community: "Michael 'Mickey' Lauer" Re: package uboot-gta 01-1.2.0+svn: failed Aug 07 22:10:45 but I can, too Aug 07 22:10:54 but X crashes when I try to power up the antenna Aug 07 22:10:57 make clean-package- make all Aug 07 22:11:05 not here ;) Aug 07 22:11:16 so, how can we get a fully working X? ;) Aug 07 22:11:38 good question :) Aug 07 22:12:39 bah, this damn dead pixel Aug 07 22:13:18 thomasg oh :) Aug 07 22:13:26 aeg ;( Aug 07 22:13:31 * Kero shakes his head, it's too hard to build stuff. Aug 07 22:14:11 I ask me if it is possible to install libs via ipk on the microSD without having to do all the symlinks by hand Aug 07 22:14:33 hm? Aug 07 22:14:38 ipkg does the symlink Aug 07 22:14:51 but you must use ext2 or other os Aug 07 22:14:52 ipkg does which symlink? Aug 07 22:14:57 so installing libs "external" is no problem at all? Aug 07 22:15:01 fat dont support links Aug 07 22:15:09 args os/fs Aug 07 22:15:10 yeah, I do not plan to use fat :) Aug 07 22:15:37 are you on diet? Aug 07 22:15:48 *g* Aug 07 22:15:56 * don-o groans Aug 07 22:16:00 did have a clown at breakfast? :) Aug 07 22:16:03 Should I try my sim card again, or should I let her charge up a bit first? Aug 07 22:16:23 HistoryOnTheRoad let it charge full the first time Aug 07 22:16:29 its better for the battery Aug 07 22:16:48 woglinde: I left it charge overnight when I first got it Aug 07 22:16:59 okay Aug 07 22:17:00 than Aug 07 22:17:02 try Aug 07 22:17:36 hi woglinde Aug 07 22:17:42 hi guillaum1 Aug 07 22:18:02 sorry for yesterday but my connection was broken for one hour Aug 07 22:18:12 np Aug 07 22:21:25 woglinde, do you have an package cacao-cldc + midpath somewhere ? I would like to see it in qemu ;-) Aug 07 22:21:30 re Aug 07 22:21:42 can the neo1973 hardware do multitouching? I'm not talking about supporting it or anything, but is it possible? Aug 07 22:22:17 defer, no it can't Aug 07 22:22:20 defer: nope Aug 07 22:22:49 ok, ty Aug 07 22:22:57 maybe it will be supported in a next generation :) Aug 07 22:23:04 woo hoo :) Aug 07 22:23:09 it will. somewhen it will :) Aug 07 22:23:16 Ok, any way to check the battery level? Aug 07 22:23:49 thomasg__: you can start openmoko-feedreader2 from console ;) Aug 07 22:24:00 hehe Aug 07 22:24:30 this may sound dumb, but it does work without a SIM right? Aug 07 22:24:49 defer: Definately Aug 07 22:24:50 :D Aug 07 22:24:56 it does - like a pda Aug 07 22:25:01 * HistoryOnTheRoad is trying WITH a SIM card now Aug 07 22:25:06 defer: I've never had a sim in my openmoko yet Aug 07 22:25:15 great Aug 07 22:25:16 :) Aug 07 22:25:23 Damn, what's that util to do GSM called? Aug 07 22:25:33 HistoryOnTheRoad: libgsmd-tool Aug 07 22:26:01 Hadaka: Merci Aug 07 22:26:12 -m ? -something Aug 07 22:26:22 HistoryOnTheRoad: -m shell Aug 07 22:26:25 HistoryOnTheRoad: or -m atcmd Aug 07 22:27:01 -m shell woo hoo Aug 07 22:27:03 ok Aug 07 22:27:29 hi Aug 07 22:27:45 EVENT: Netreg searching for network Aug 07 22:27:54 EVENT: Netreg registered (home network) LocationAreaCode Aug 07 22:28:01 HistoryOnTheRoad: congrats! Aug 07 22:28:04 EVENT: Signal Quality: 14 Aug 07 22:28:18 I've gotten this far before, but no dialing worked :( Aug 07 22:28:38 borg_, after killing matchbox I get a mousepointer :) Aug 07 22:28:56 I envy you guys for being able to poke at the problems this early, i'd like to contribute too but I guess I'll be limited to emulation for a while Aug 07 22:29:06 Ok, I dropped into atcmd mode Aug 07 22:29:12 Question: When I run the ARM QEMU version of OM, all the icons work fine. When I run x86 chroot'ed (via Xephyr) a lot of the icons show up as red X documents. Anyone know what needs to be done to have the icons show up? Aug 07 22:29:18 AT+COPS seems to have worked Aug 07 22:29:35 jseghers: Occasionally I get that on the Moko too, fwiw Aug 07 22:30:21 thomasg__: i actually can read feeds with the feedreader now :)) Aug 07 22:30:41 ok Aug 07 22:30:51 dialing still isn't working Aug 07 22:31:00 could someone test if all is OK with this torrent? I'm setting up a tracker to allow the download of a vmware image with an openmoko build system. Aug 07 22:31:07 http://tracker.unsads.com/torrents-details.php?id=1 Aug 07 22:31:08 DNPAXXXXXXXX Aug 07 22:31:11 HistoryOnTheRoad: It seems to be pretty consistent for me... QEMU with the locally built image works fine. Built for x86 and running chroot, it doesn't find the icons. Aug 07 22:31:15 Dial blah Aug 07 22:31:28 EVENT: Outgoing Call Progress: REJECT Aug 07 22:31:28 RSTR=`NO CARRIER' Aug 07 22:31:28 EVENT: Outgoing Call Progress: RELEASE Aug 07 22:31:52 jseghers: I haven't got the emu running yet. I will try and report though Aug 07 22:32:39 squalyl: corrupt torrent... Aug 07 22:32:45 hi squalyl Aug 07 22:32:51 same for me Aug 07 22:32:54 Any ideas on my no dial problem? :S Aug 07 22:32:56 Now I _finally_ have my Neo, I spent one evening rather futile trying to get things working. And then I won't be able to do anything in the next three weeks (conference, holiday). Aug 07 22:33:17 hi guillaum1 Aug 07 22:33:19 Kero: Better than not having had the time to do anything with it at all :) Aug 07 22:33:38 abraxa_: I blame UPS for not being able to play past weekend. Aug 07 22:33:46 Good choice Aug 07 22:33:57 where is the last flash binaries to qemu-neo1973? Aug 07 22:33:57 caligari_spain: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (and also SH1, SH1_FAQ, Neo1973, Developer_preview and Neo1973_Hardware#GTA01Bv4 pages) (Hopefully these links answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) Aug 07 22:34:51 Kero: ah, you caught them this time? Aug 07 22:35:03 LarstiQ: fourth attempt... Aug 07 22:35:06 guillaum1, caligari_spain : I made it with bittorrent 5.0.8, could this explain why the torrent seems corrupted? Aug 07 22:36:58 squalyl: with ktorrent I have got an error message when downloading torrent: torrent probably corrupt or not a torrent file... Aug 07 22:37:11 squalyl, dunno. I'm not familiar with torrent stuffs Aug 07 22:37:44 Hmmm Aug 07 22:37:57 Do I have to dial in International format? Aug 07 22:38:03 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Hardware:Neo1973:Alternate_Cases:Stylus_mount]] [[Hardware:Neo1973:Alternate_Cases:Scroll-wheel_%28side-mounted%29]] [[Hardware:Neo1973:Alternate_Cases:Ruggedized]] [[Hardware:Neo1973:Alternate_Cases:Solar_power]] [[Hardware:Neo1973:Alternate_Cases:Camera]] and other changes Aug 07 22:38:29 hey! excuseme! Aug 07 22:38:42 scualyl: it rulez! Aug 07 22:38:59 VMware-server-installer-1.0.3-44356.exe Aug 07 22:39:10 146 Mb Aug 07 22:39:27 Please, seed it Aug 07 22:39:51 squalyl, azureus says: connection error (IOException:not in GZIP format) Aug 07 22:39:59 Yes. Aug 07 22:40:09 bittorrent console said the same thing Aug 07 22:40:15 http://tracker.unsads.com/torrents-details.php?id=1 is a web page, the torrent is http://tracker.unsads.com/download.php?id=1&name=VMware-server-installer-1.0.3-44356.exe.torrent Aug 07 22:40:17 but azureus 2.5 is ok Aug 07 22:40:19 HistoryOnTheRoad, no Aug 07 22:40:24 caligari_spain: tell me if you solve the icons problem please Aug 07 22:41:00 ATDT 4165551212 Aug 07 22:41:00 STR=`ATDT' Aug 07 22:41:00 RSTR=`NO CARRIER' Aug 07 22:41:00 EVENT: Signal Quality: 17 Aug 07 22:41:00 RSTR=`OK' Aug 07 22:41:00 EVENT: Signal Quality: 20 Aug 07 22:41:02 RSTR=`OK' Aug 07 22:41:04 EVENT: Signal Quality: 16 Aug 07 22:41:06 RSTR=`OK' Aug 07 22:41:08 EVENT: Signal Quality: 19 Aug 07 22:41:10 RSTR=`OK' Aug 07 22:41:12 Looks promising, but if I could only dial :P Aug 07 22:41:13 he Aug 07 22:41:20 mjr: Any clues? Aug 07 22:41:25 er i meant jseghers if you solve the icons problem please tell me Aug 07 22:41:28 squalyl, my version is 2.5.0.4 Aug 07 22:41:34 HistoryOnTheRoad: why are you putting a space after ATDT? Aug 07 22:41:34 squalyl: seems no seeders: stalled... Aug 07 22:41:45 yes Aug 07 22:41:48 I know Aug 07 22:41:58 Hadaka: Good question. Because I used to when I would talk to a modem :P Aug 07 22:41:58 I'm having a problem with azureus now Aug 07 22:42:47 HistoryOnTheRoad: the "STR" part there loks kinda funky, like it would split the line at the space Aug 07 22:43:50 OK in theory, I'm seeding now Aug 07 22:44:07 please try if you have 1 minute :) Aug 07 22:45:25 stalled again... Aug 07 22:46:13 ATDT4165551212 Aug 07 22:46:13 STR=`ATDT4165551212' Aug 07 22:46:13 EVENT: Outgoing Call Progress: UNKNOWN Aug 07 22:46:13 EVENT: Outgoing Call Progress: REJECT Aug 07 22:46:23 So, good guess, but no joy :S Aug 07 22:46:57 caligari_spain: Don't loose time, i'll try tomorrow. Aug 07 22:47:05 Now I'm asleep ... Aug 07 22:47:28 see you later and big thanks for your help Aug 07 22:47:35 big thanks guillaum1, too Aug 07 22:47:51 bye Aug 07 22:47:55 bye Aug 07 22:48:01 HistoryOnTheRoad, I'm not sure, since I haven't made calls in raw mode, but are you sure ATDT will make a voice call and not a data call? 'cause if you're trying to make a data call it'd explain refusal if you don't have those in your plan Aug 07 22:48:13 try the libgsmd-tool -m shell and dial from there Aug 07 22:48:34 atdt can make a voice call Aug 07 22:48:47 you need a ';' at the end though Aug 07 22:49:05 so it may well be that then Aug 07 22:50:16 I am running qemu-neo, and it boots, but crash on Xinit: error while loading shared libraries: libz.so.1: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory... :-( Where is the problem? Aug 07 22:58:50 Do you need a ";" after a D in shell mode? Aug 07 22:59:16 you need it when talking directly to the serial interface. Aug 07 22:59:31 (that is, no) Aug 07 23:00:03 Ah. Aug 07 23:00:18 ok, I'm still getting UNKNOWN/REJECT :( Aug 07 23:00:37 I even tried injecting a 1 before the number Aug 07 23:01:48 tyr ATDT+1aaannnxxxx Aug 07 23:03:33 I'm out of time now for this session :( Aug 07 23:03:54 Thanks to all for your help, hopefully I'll get this going soon :) Aug 07 23:04:33 Where are the last flash binaries? Aug 07 23:05:16 is anyone else having trouble dialing out with cingular ? Aug 07 23:05:21 I get "NO CARRIER" Aug 07 23:07:16 cingular = AT&T? Aug 07 23:07:18 you're lucky to even have your sim card work Aug 07 23:07:44 (for some subset of working) :P Aug 07 23:08:06 thomasg__, yes Aug 07 23:08:10 thoamsg yes at&t bought them Aug 07 23:08:22 woglinde, yes, I remebered (I'm from europe) Aug 07 23:08:34 codyl, than you might have no luck Aug 07 23:08:44 anyone dial successfully with them .. ? Aug 07 23:08:50 AT&T is making problems (maybe because of the 850 MHz band they use) Aug 07 23:09:02 what are other people using for the "ATD" command ? Aug 07 23:09:04 codyl: uS? Aug 07 23:09:13 codyl: atd150 works for me Aug 07 23:09:18 SpeedEvil, AT&T (Cingular) Aug 07 23:09:21 (to dial my providers information line) Aug 07 23:09:29 "NO CARRIER" Aug 07 23:09:35 at+cops? Aug 07 23:09:38 what does it say? Aug 07 23:09:39 codyl, you did AT+COPS Aug 07 23:09:46 erm, yes, what speedevil says Aug 07 23:09:51 ys Aug 07 23:09:52 yes Aug 07 23:09:53 I get okay Aug 07 23:10:08 at+cops? gives me "Cingular" too ! Aug 07 23:10:09 You should get - with the ? after it - what netwoek you're lgged into. Aug 07 23:10:18 AT+COPS? Aug 07 23:10:18 +COPS: 0,0,"Cingular" Aug 07 23:10:18 OK Aug 07 23:10:30 did I have to do CPIN ? Aug 07 23:10:40 Does your SIM need a pin? Aug 07 23:10:50 never has Aug 07 23:11:03 (I use an unlocked motorola linux phone) Aug 07 23:11:16 codyl, you should add your sim model info on the att page as "working" aka.. it actually tries Aug 07 23:11:31 codyl, http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Carriers/ATT Aug 07 23:11:42 I wouldnt call this working.. Aug 07 23:12:39 im gonna try again with gsmd this time Aug 07 23:12:58 http://buildhost.openmoko.org/tmp/deploy/images/ is up! Aug 07 23:14:31 is it the fact I dont have the proper kernel modules ? Aug 07 23:14:37 (I cant load any modules..) Aug 07 23:14:39 no Aug 07 23:14:43 you don't need any modules Aug 07 23:14:49 all compiled in- good Aug 07 23:15:00 what error does atd give? Aug 07 23:15:04 i've had pretty good luck with the libgsm shell Aug 07 23:15:29 and actually, with the last build that actually built (about 3 days ago now) i can use the dialer regularly Aug 07 23:15:42 the sound levels are still a manual thing Aug 07 23:16:11 SpeedEvil, "NO CARRIER" Aug 07 23:16:17 immediately? Aug 07 23:16:22 no..after a bit Aug 07 23:16:27 Is it a prepay, or a contract SIM? Aug 07 23:16:47 Does the other end ring - or do you get a different number on busy? Aug 07 23:16:55 daMaestro: are you using 2007.2? Aug 07 23:16:55 I.E. are you sure it will make calls normally Aug 07 23:17:12 IT WORKS Aug 07 23:17:12 Tyrae1, building it now Aug 07 23:17:19 okay, here is the secret with AT&T Aug 07 23:17:21 give it time.. Aug 07 23:17:42 for whatever reason I had to wait about a minute after doing "R" from the gsmd shell Aug 07 23:17:45 to dial.. Aug 07 23:17:46 Do the mass production Neos have green PCBs or red ones as the prototypes? Aug 07 23:17:48 odd Aug 07 23:17:57 (my motorola phones does this too..it just doesnt allow you to call during that time) Aug 07 23:18:10 daMestro: me too (1730 of 3502) Aug 07 23:18:14 perhaps there is some AT command we are missing for AT&T Aug 07 23:18:30 but the motorola is from china! it doesnt even know about AT&T Aug 07 23:18:32 really strange. Aug 07 23:18:47 the call quality AWFUL btw Aug 07 23:19:11 for me, it's quite high. Aug 07 23:19:20 better than any other phone I've owned. Aug 07 23:19:24 (which have been shit) Aug 07 23:19:30 tons of static on my end Aug 07 23:19:48 static, or codec noise? Aug 07 23:19:55 might be codec noise Aug 07 23:19:57 most likely codec noise Aug 07 23:19:59 an odd hummm Aug 07 23:20:02 i get that too Aug 07 23:20:07 codyl, use alsamixer to fix it up Aug 07 23:20:10 That's possibly mixer problems. Aug 07 23:20:11 might ALA Aug 07 23:20:12 ya Aug 07 23:20:51 The mixer has around 1237940039285380274899124224 states :) Aug 07 23:20:56 eek Aug 07 23:20:58 LOL Aug 07 23:21:13 There are ninety some individual mixers or switches. Aug 07 23:21:27 Getting the signal path right isn't really trivial. Aug 07 23:21:35 wow Aug 07 23:21:47 also- the openmoko panel crashes if you try to use an applet Aug 07 23:22:05 It does that occasionally for me too - for some applets Aug 07 23:22:11 ello moko nuts Aug 07 23:22:12 the GSM antenna one is prone to it. Aug 07 23:22:24 Failed to make a connection to the session bus: Failed to execute dbus-launch to autolaunch D-Bus session Aug 07 23:22:33 does somebody have an idea what this means? Aug 07 23:22:40 Sounds circular. Aug 07 23:23:41 i allready restartet dbus Aug 07 23:23:58 what are the plan regarding a browser on the phone? Aug 07 23:24:20 just gtk-html or more? Aug 07 23:24:35 what about webkit? Aug 07 23:24:45 mdt: they are allready using webkit Aug 07 23:24:55 if you compile OM2007.2 Aug 07 23:24:59 oups... Aug 07 23:25:00 :D Aug 07 23:25:01 you can actually use the feedreader Aug 07 23:25:06 and surf with it Aug 07 23:25:07 isnt webkit a kde tool? Aug 07 23:25:11 iphone-like Aug 07 23:25:15 it's a branche Aug 07 23:25:19 and it works veeery well Aug 07 23:25:19 by apple Aug 07 23:25:46 safari is based on it.. Aug 07 23:25:50 i think webkit is a kde tool to replace khtml Aug 07 23:26:06 and safari uses it as its engine Aug 07 23:26:13 no, webkit is a khtml branch by safari Aug 07 23:26:17 ööh Aug 07 23:26:19 by apple Aug 07 23:26:21 for safari Aug 07 23:26:30 but its opensource Aug 07 23:26:32 Can anyone with hardware to hand - and the headset, do hexdump -C /dev/input/event0 Aug 07 23:26:54 then plug in and uplug the headset, and click the hold button. Aug 07 23:27:02 does the hold button generate an event. Aug 07 23:27:09 For me, it doesn't - though it should. Aug 07 23:27:17 Wondering if it's my headset. Aug 07 23:27:24 give me a second Aug 07 23:27:37 No hurry at all :) Aug 07 23:27:39 SpeedEvil: http://www.pastebin.ca/649257 Aug 07 23:27:54 that doesn't help - as I can't decode it easily Aug 07 23:28:03 when you click the hold button - does it scroll? Aug 07 23:28:08 inserting gives events, button not Aug 07 23:28:10 yes its a branch from khtml.. which was part of the kde libs Aug 07 23:28:13 Sigh. Aug 07 23:28:22 SpeedEvil: no Aug 07 23:28:29 * SpeedEvil raises a bug. Aug 07 23:28:42 perhaps my button is broken Aug 07 23:28:46 dont know Aug 07 23:28:49 mine too? Aug 07 23:28:54 :D Aug 07 23:29:12 how are the buttons mapped anyway? Aug 07 23:29:38 The headset jack insert 'button', the hold button, and the aux button all appear on /dev/input/event0 Aug 07 23:29:44 touchscreen on /dev/input/event1 Aug 07 23:29:55 power events on /dev/input/event2 Aug 07 23:30:22 incl. power button? Aug 07 23:30:33 Unsure Aug 07 23:30:34 kde guys are moving away from khtml to something else from memory Aug 07 23:30:37 but they apear on /dev/tty? also... are they mapped somehow? Aug 07 23:30:47 I know that power button events don't appear in /dev/input/event0 Aug 07 23:31:00 bugzilla is down... Aug 07 23:31:02 SpeedEvil, i see those in ...2 Aug 07 23:31:08 * SpeedEvil files a bug. Aug 07 23:31:16 mdt: power button events? Aug 07 23:31:29 ah - just slow. Aug 07 23:31:29 SpeedEvil, successfully made a voice call- the person on the other end had no idea I was on a different phone Aug 07 23:31:35 :) Aug 07 23:31:36 YAY Aug 07 23:31:43 SpeedEvil, if i press the button i see event in /dev/input/event2 Aug 07 23:31:46 sent an SMS- we will see if it works :-) Aug 07 23:31:53 mdt: the power button? Aug 07 23:32:00 SpeedEvil, yes Aug 07 23:33:11 shouldn't there be a .bb file for webkit? Aug 07 23:33:27 ah yes webkit is replacing khtml Aug 07 23:33:40 linux_galore, hey you got it :D Aug 07 23:34:07 I think a few browsers are swapping to webkit Aug 07 23:34:37 which one? Aug 07 23:34:46 dillo? :D Aug 07 23:35:19 Well Safari obviously, Im trying to remember the other two someone mentioned to me Aug 07 23:35:19 lynx Aug 07 23:35:41 safari startet with webkit :) hard to switch then i assume... Aug 07 23:36:18 I have a feeling opera may be looking at it Aug 07 23:36:40 i don't think so, they are proud of their engine Aug 07 23:37:07 rwhitby, ping. Aug 07 23:37:34 mdt: webkit has way more java extension support than Opera right now (Konqueror got a 100% pass mark and thats with khtml) Aug 07 23:38:04 linux_galore, java? you mean javascript i assume... Aug 07 23:38:11 yes sorry Aug 07 23:38:15 holy crap I'm so eager for the hardware to ship to me Aug 07 23:38:20 sry goes to sun... Aug 07 23:38:27 jadams_, don't worry, it won't boot. Aug 07 23:38:29 ;) Aug 07 23:38:44 mmazur: bah, it'll start booting once it's got OM2007.2 on it, eh? Aug 07 23:39:26 Whoa. With .2 you might actually be able to make a *call* from it! Aug 07 23:39:42 is their a make target to download everything first before building Aug 07 23:39:52 mmazur: yeah...I bought a development phone. Not sure what your tone's for Aug 07 23:39:54 mokomakefile that is Aug 07 23:40:02 Dose anyone know why 3g sim 7300 4021 is both working and not working (http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Carriers/ATT)? Aug 07 23:40:14 BlackBsd: gu Aug 07 23:40:25 if someone reports success and another failure does that mean the neos are different? Aug 07 23:40:52 gu?? Aug 07 23:40:57 pingu Aug 07 23:40:58 how are you? Aug 07 23:41:13 jadams_, just joking around :) It won't boot by default and I wasn't able to get a working call with the old software. Aug 07 23:41:21 Waiting for a .2 for dummies. Aug 07 23:41:22 i was wanting to know if there was a target to download everything before building Aug 07 23:41:30 sorry, it's an in-joke. ping->gu-> pingu -> www.pingu.net Aug 07 23:41:37 I remember Opera CEO bragging about 4 weeks ago that their browser will soon have 100% support for all the open standards scripting stuff and will be the first to do so, one problem Firefox already has a better score card and Konqueror gets a 100% pass mark as of kde 3.5.4 Aug 07 23:41:57 there is not at the moment, but we can add one. Trouble is that the build will still go to the network for checking revisions (the svnnow stuff) Aug 07 23:42:23 my build is failing, i think because because of the svnnow things Aug 07 23:42:39 linux_galore: I have a browser question? Why would a windows user download safari when he can get firefox? Aug 07 23:42:51 To get the ugly fonts. Aug 07 23:42:53 I mean. Aug 07 23:42:55 The nicer fonts. Aug 07 23:42:58 also i have vorbis source already on the pc, and it still wants to download things Aug 07 23:43:01 I feel apple releasing safari was just a waist of resources on their part Aug 07 23:43:14 calamous_: because some of the quirky features in Opera I suspect Aug 07 23:43:15 is there a way to compile qemu on a gentoo pc without 3.x Aug 07 23:43:23 calamous_, not really. Web developers was probably their target. Aug 07 23:43:37 calamous_, it's a lot less of a pita to test for safari, when you can just click and run it. Aug 07 23:43:51 ahh ok Aug 07 23:44:11 I was disipointed to learn that firefox was only 14% of the market share Aug 07 23:44:17 I though it would be more Aug 07 23:44:19 there are some pretty weird options in Opera, they are so weird I just cant use the thing Aug 07 23:44:56 some people like all the extra crack though, I just find it confusing Aug 07 23:45:56 jadams_ - "development phone"? Are there other neos? Aug 07 23:46:13 calamous_: depends what country, In Germany firefox is over 40% Aug 07 23:46:46 linux_galore: Wow, thats nice. is I.E the other 60%? I don't know why people use the crap that MS puts out Aug 07 23:47:05 rwhitby, i dont want to bug you with newbie stuff, but i have tried to clean a package and rebuild and it keeps failing.. http://pastebin.com/m539503b2 Aug 07 23:47:15 calamous_: also most people are scared shitless of their computer so try not to play with it by adding extra crap because they are worried it will break Aug 07 23:47:16 calamous_ - Because it's preinstalled. People don't like installing. Aug 07 23:47:38 this is also a fresh linux install so i was hoping my system is not missing something.. Aug 07 23:48:13 linux_galore: I guess that is the sad reality of the average user... Aug 07 23:48:34 calamous_: I know senior IT guys who admin windows and they have a philosophy of not touching a windows machine because it might break even if it may improve it Aug 07 23:49:11 BlackBsd: have you done a make update recently Aug 07 23:49:19 there was a uboot fix in the last 12 hours Aug 07 23:49:26 maybe a few days ago, i can try again though Aug 07 23:49:56 linux_galore: wow. thats crazy. An IT person told me his fav quote: "No one has ever been fired for going with microsoft" (which was said during a meeting discussing MS echange or an opensource directory) Aug 07 23:50:04 rwhitby - Did that uboot fix go into the mokomakfile build? Aug 07 23:50:20 BlackBsd: "a few days ago"???? The *first* thing you do is update and try to rebuild on a project that is moving as fast as this one. I even say that on the MokoMakefile wiki page - did you even read what you need to do before reporting MokoMakefile problems? Aug 07 23:50:35 Elrond: mickey fixed it in svn Aug 07 23:51:03 rwhitby: there is a limit... you can't update faster than you can compile Aug 07 23:51:09 yes try 3 times... i know when i say a few days i meant only 2 Aug 07 23:51:10 BlackBsd: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/MokoMakefile <- read the "Reporting Problems" section Aug 07 23:52:05 you need to have that sequence (including the make update) fail three times in a row (not on separate days) before reporting. Aug 07 23:52:46 sorry.. Aug 07 23:54:06 calamous_: I can understand why the left brained types like Apple, they just go to an Apple shop and buy apple bits an pieces and it all just works, no stuffing around (well accept for scanners), people are scared of their computers, its a terrible state of affairs Aug 07 23:55:05 calamous_: Ive seen windows users buy a HP pc/laptop and then buy HP printers and scanners because they are scarred anything else may not work Aug 07 23:55:20 linux_galore: thats so unfortunate. Aug 07 23:55:39 linux_galore: that makes we sad Aug 07 23:56:04 also if you ring up HP for support what are HP going to say, sorry HP dont support HP printers on HP laptops Aug 07 23:57:01 * SpeedEvil 's filed the hold button bug. Aug 07 23:57:33 linux_galore: yes. Aug 07 23:57:37 good example is yesterday and old couple with dial up that live local have problems, i said just change to a slower speed and it should become more stable, they were terrified that if they did that it would totally stop working Aug 07 23:57:59 It's so damn fragile. Aug 07 23:58:25 SpeedEvil: yeah, someone told me that once when they rang up HOP and they said the printer isnt supported on their own hardware lol Aug 07 23:58:31 HP* Aug 07 23:58:34 linux_galore: yeah, its crazy. How do people not think logically or critically? Aug 07 23:58:57 Because thinking logically or critically doesn't help unless you have complete knowledge of the windows system. Aug 07 23:58:57 Anyone how knows how "to think" would relize its not that way Aug 07 23:59:07 In many cases at least. Aug 07 23:59:32 For the average user - they do not have a functional internal model of the state of the system. Aug 07 23:59:34 and we have Microsoft siting there saying this shitty state of affairs is fine Aug 08 00:00:00 They react to dialog boxes, at best. If they actually read them, and don't ask for help on something they haven't seen a thousand times. Aug 08 00:00:06 SpeedEvil: I guess, so many people ask me (IMO) dumb questions and I fell if they wernt scared and sped 3 mins thingking about it they could solve it Aug 08 00:00:16 To an extent, yes. Aug 08 00:00:25 and now we have Vista with its "DONT TOUCH THAT OR THE WORLD WILL IMPLODE [YES/NO] ? Aug 08 00:01:14 when I saw Vista I knew Microsoft just didnt understand people Aug 08 00:01:33 yeah Aug 08 00:01:37 It's like permissions - and still running everything as root. Aug 08 00:02:10 linux_galore, SpeedEvil: on a quick side note do you call your os a flavor of Linux or GNU/Linux? Aug 08 00:02:23 so now I have these users who are totally clueless scared to even install software because Vista keeps saying the world will implode if they do so Aug 08 00:02:25 I try to use GNU/Linux if I'm being formal because I feel RMS has a good point Aug 08 00:02:33 Some people call it maurice. Aug 08 00:03:25 linux_galore: I'll tell you something funny. My friend has apple and when os X is low it says "your computer is now running on reserver power." He said that it was on his reserve bat, I asked to see his comp and told him he just had one batt Aug 08 00:03:42 calamous_: well I use Linux as a general name and I say I use I treat each distro as a separate OS Aug 08 00:03:55 but he insisted that he had a reserve battery because it was in apple's dialog box message Aug 08 00:04:35 But calling "it" Linux. Isnt that like calling Mac OS X just Darwin Aug 08 00:04:41 because its the kern? Aug 08 00:04:50 To an extent. Aug 08 00:05:02 The proper term would be something like distribution/gnu/linux Aug 08 00:05:07 but that's quite unwieldy. Aug 08 00:05:24 Sure. Aug 08 00:05:53 Debian is the only distro that calls it that way: Debian GNU/Linux Aug 08 00:06:01 Im getting this feeling with Vista the new version of "security" is to say "well this may damage your system and if you do its not our fault its your [Yes,No]" basically "duck shoving" is Microsoft new security platform, I tell people to use XP its less confusing Aug 08 00:06:04 * SpeedEvil wonders what percentage of files are gnu. Aug 08 00:06:20 Your C libraray Aug 08 00:06:23 compiler Aug 08 00:06:32 compiler isn't actually in OM. Aug 08 00:06:34 (forex) Aug 08 00:06:45 (usually) Aug 08 00:07:05 true. but gcc is the only compiler that can compile linux correctly (as of atleast last year) Aug 08 00:07:27 IMO, calling stuff GCC compiled Gnu is really stretching it. Aug 08 00:07:43 SpeedEvil: I'm not calling it that lol Aug 08 00:07:46 calamous_: OSX is an OS not a kernel and discribes a single release, Linux described all the released of Linux but I dont define it as a complete OS like OSX, thus I use the disro name Aug 08 00:07:49 I would agree that would be streating it Aug 08 00:08:03 releases* Aug 08 00:08:27 Calling it GNU/Linux carriers the message that the FSF (GNU) want to push Aug 08 00:08:30 an OS is not a flavor of Linux, but it may be a "Linux system", and yes, I too think RMS has a point Aug 08 00:08:52 As a _trivial_ experiment. Aug 08 00:09:01 grep Homep.*gnu * Aug 08 00:09:08 in /usr/lib/ipkg/info Aug 08 00:09:13 gives only 11 files Aug 08 00:09:25 also GNU only defines a part of LInux and only a small part now Aug 08 00:09:30 of 322 Aug 08 00:09:40 I'm wondering why the kernel devels wont put Linux under GPLv3? Aug 08 00:09:52 GNU doesn't define a part of Linux at all :] Aug 08 00:09:58 Yes Aug 08 00:10:04 calamous_: because GPL 2 suites Linus's needs Aug 08 00:10:08 But it would be nice, it would offer more protection Aug 08 00:10:21 SpeedEvil: mmh.. what is with ls, cat, grep, .... and so on Aug 08 00:10:22 Mostly ncurses, glibc, gdb Aug 08 00:10:22 Linus thinks that all software licences are valid Aug 08 00:10:28 arent this all gnu tools? Aug 08 00:10:29 borg_: busybox. Aug 08 00:10:30 glibc being the big one Aug 08 00:10:33 and changing to 3 would be time-consuming and difficult bureaucratically Aug 08 00:10:37 SpeedEvil: aah ok Aug 08 00:10:42 you are speaking of openmoko Aug 08 00:10:43 sry ;) Aug 08 00:10:47 Yeah. Aug 08 00:10:50 calamous_: actually Linus's views (as i do) that GPL3 offers less distribution freedom Aug 08 00:10:52 yes Aug 08 00:11:05 busybox replaces most of the gnu tools Aug 08 00:11:18 linux_galore: but with more freedom for the users, you have heard of tivoization right? Aug 08 00:11:25 Good night people. Aug 08 00:11:31 I think that 4 or 5 of those 11 could be trivially replaced by non-gnu. Aug 08 00:11:35 calamous_: yes but that doesnt effect the kernel Aug 08 00:11:36 The rest are really hard. Aug 08 00:11:38 GPL 3 has the nice explicit mention that you can do a proxy arrangement with a trusted individual(s) who can then choose to upgrade the gpl to later versions... no such proxy thing in Linux Aug 08 00:11:44 Night Eldorn. Aug 08 00:12:06 calamous_: and Tivi do submit allot of code to the kernel so Linus has no issues with it Aug 08 00:12:11 though apparently a fair bunch of code in Linux is actually "v2 or later", just that v2-only stuff is plentiful as well. Aug 08 00:12:22 I'm really conflicted on tivoisation. Aug 08 00:12:28 but you can't run your own on tivo even though they released what they wrote Aug 08 00:12:33 SpeedEvil: but to call it a gnu/linux system is more polite anyway, "linux" would obviously not what it is today without the gnu stuff Aug 08 00:12:41 It can mean that hardware makers significantly reduce their dev-time. Aug 08 00:12:42 it checksums your own code out Aug 08 00:12:45 borg_, yeah Aug 08 00:12:49 can you put the stylus inside the neo somehow? Aug 08 00:13:11 Essentially for free. Then they get to lock down the hardware so nobody can actually use the sourcecode they supply. Aug 08 00:13:17 Linus is "pre merging" not "pro forking" the GPL3 isnt "pro merging" thus Linus doesnt actually like it Aug 08 00:13:23 and on general purpose systems at least gnu stuff is at the very core, and in a lot of embedded stuff too, though not all Aug 08 00:13:26 * SpeedEvil passes defer a powerdrill with a 10mm bit. Aug 08 00:13:27 s/pre/pro/ Aug 08 00:13:27 linux_galore meant: Linus is "pro merging" not "pro forking" the GPL3 isnt "pro merging" thus Linus doesnt actually like it Aug 08 00:13:34 Linus is not as philosophical as RMS clearly Aug 08 00:13:34 defer: basically not. Aug 08 00:13:39 BSD = pro forking Aug 08 00:13:52 that's bad i lose stuff all the time :\ Aug 08 00:13:57 defer: the supplied stylus is quite large. Aug 08 00:14:02 True, Linus has no morality on software. I dislike that :] Aug 08 00:14:05 It's basically a normal relatively heavy metal pen. Aug 08 00:14:06 i see Aug 08 00:14:11 With a laser and light. Aug 08 00:14:16 And a stylus/pen Aug 08 00:14:30 it's got a clip on it. Aug 08 00:14:36 I suppose you could grind the stylus into powder Aug 08 00:14:40 Linus is an engineer at the end of the day not a philosopher Aug 08 00:14:41 and stick it in the Neo Aug 08 00:14:57 On wikipedia on Linus's page it basically said linux n00bs "worship" him and he finds it annonying Aug 08 00:15:03 Engineering is a philosophy too. Aug 08 00:15:07 IMO. Aug 08 00:15:13 Linus had a cool idea. Aug 08 00:15:25 And happened to be in the right place at the right time for it to crystalise. Aug 08 00:15:40 he's such a bad person, but I admire his work Aug 08 00:15:44 look at all the packages that are in the FSF's directory Aug 08 00:15:46 at the end of the day Linus wants as many people as possible to be able to merge code into the kernel, the GPL3 puts a kink on that Aug 08 00:15:57 bsd is pro whatever Aug 08 00:15:57 I wish Linus cared more about "freedom" as RMS does Aug 08 00:15:58 do whatever Aug 08 00:16:08 calamous_: fork off. Aug 08 00:16:18 ^^ Aug 08 00:16:20 SpeedEvil: lol Aug 08 00:16:22 yeah but BSD is pro fork thus its not got the growth of a pro merge project like Linux Aug 08 00:16:32 SpeedEvil: I'll go download GNU Hurd lol Aug 08 00:16:38 Hmm. Aug 08 00:16:38 being pro-whatever is not good, apple could have contributed a lot back to bsd but they saw nada. Aug 08 00:16:39 calamous_: he does care about it himself, he just doesn't believe in forcing his beliefs on other people Aug 08 00:16:41 its all about the licensing Aug 08 00:16:48 * SpeedEvil wonders what's happening with HURD. Aug 08 00:16:57 SpeedEvil: Nothing! Aug 08 00:16:57 SpeedEvil: still being worked on Aug 08 00:17:11 linux_galore, well, the GPL3 _is_ designed to be more compatible with some other licenses, such as apache :] Aug 08 00:17:12 they did a major rewrite of Hurd not long ago Aug 08 00:17:18 Is it due for release before Duke Nukem forever? Aug 08 00:17:22 nothing? Aug 08 00:17:24 HAHAHA Aug 08 00:17:33 When is Duke Nukem forever comming out Aug 08 00:17:36 i heard that they're teaming up for a double-release Aug 08 00:17:45 :) Aug 08 00:17:46 lol Aug 08 00:17:50 mjr: yeah but there are some anti-merging aspects that goes against the grain for Linus in the GPL3 Aug 08 00:17:52 * jaebird thinks the HURD is a cool idea Aug 08 00:17:52 yes and there happend to be lawsuits going on at that time.. Aug 08 00:18:21 lol Aug 08 00:18:24 well, the world is going towards monolithic kernels, hurd is a step back Aug 08 00:18:31 oo Aug 08 00:18:33 I guess this argument has been going on on IRC and mailling lists for years Aug 08 00:18:36 hot button issue! Aug 08 00:18:39 * anrp pops popcorn Aug 08 00:18:42 in some ways Hurd is a good idea now that CPU's are multi core Aug 08 00:18:54 linux_galore, thats simply not true Aug 08 00:18:56 hurd is still kickin Aug 08 00:18:56 defer_, are you serious? Aug 08 00:19:07 I think Linux will start to have problems with multi core cpu's Aug 08 00:19:24 mjr: mostly, i admire non monolithic design Aug 08 00:19:27 Combinatorial lock explosion is a problem. Aug 08 00:19:30 BlackBsd: ?? I never said it wasnt Aug 08 00:19:32 * jaebird thinks the Hurd will trample! Aug 08 00:19:35 mjr: but it has it's flaws int he real world Aug 08 00:19:35 apache, is more like bsd than it is gpl Aug 08 00:20:13 linux_galore, shy do you bash bsd? Aug 08 00:20:14 defer_, only in that monolithic solutions have gotten more mindshare, like flies :] Aug 08 00:20:27 linux_galore: what are you talking about? why would linux have problems with multi core cpus? Aug 08 00:20:33 why Aug 08 00:20:37 BlackBsd, the apache licence is more like the old bsd licence with the attibution clause :) Aug 08 00:20:57 monolithic has been round for a long time, the kernels now are monolithic yet have modular design Aug 08 00:21:02 * jaebird chants "micro kernel...." Aug 08 00:21:11 What is a hybrid kernel? Aug 08 00:21:23 why you think that? Aug 08 00:21:29 BlackBsd, yes they have. Which is why I found defer's "world is moving towards monolithic" statement to be rather... disingenious Aug 08 00:21:56 Agrajag-: well you cant split the kernel up over multiple cores without virtualisation, why cant we have something like Hurd were the kernel is split so it works on seperate cores Aug 08 00:22:02 modular doesn't make a kernel more or less like a micro kernel in my opinion Aug 08 00:22:10 defer_, of course it doesn't Aug 08 00:22:40 and yes, Hurd is treading very slow... Wonder what's the progress of the L4 port Aug 08 00:22:48 Solaris and Windows now uses hybrid kernels Aug 08 00:22:55 Minix may yet overtake it as a free microkernel OS ;) Aug 08 00:23:06 Guys! I'm sorry I've started this whole licences and kernel discussion. Its been going on for years (decades). This should be on the LKML not here lol Aug 08 00:23:09 not the W word! Aug 08 00:23:20 anyway Im out Aug 08 00:23:21 thomasg_ yes, closer to bsd than gpl Aug 08 00:23:33 Lets get back to openmoko / Neo Aug 08 00:23:41 calamous_ way to go...drop a poo and leave :) Aug 08 00:23:52 I understand that google's phone will use openmoko Aug 08 00:23:58 nice Aug 08 00:24:02 jaebird: yes, but we are just waisting time lol Aug 08 00:24:05 now Aug 08 00:24:09 personally i like both the linux os and the bsd os, and i would probally like hurd also Aug 08 00:24:21 * jaebird thinks gPhone will be 3G out of the gate Aug 08 00:24:22 There _does_ appear to be some progress with Hurd. Which is good, slow as it is. Aug 08 00:24:46 there is nothing wrong with a micro kernel.. Aug 08 00:24:48 I want to see progress on the linux bios Aug 08 00:24:59 if designed right, they all work well Aug 08 00:25:15 BlackBsd, I think it's a crying shame that almost all free kernel developers work with these Linux/*BSD systems that are separate but really, at the core, the same. Aug 08 00:26:02 lol Aug 08 00:26:19 would hope that _some_ ukernel free OS would gain momentum, at least it'd be an ecosystem then and not such a monoculture, sucky pun intended Aug 08 00:28:01 at the core, some are very different.. Aug 08 00:28:20 which is why i like posix and standards Aug 08 00:28:36 it won't happe until vendors decide that it's 'good enough' to hack linux into their devices Aug 08 00:28:37 like oe will work under bsd.. Aug 08 00:28:43 *happen Aug 08 00:33:16 how can i re-download just the artwork tarball? Aug 08 00:33:29 cant i remove something under stamps? Aug 08 00:34:10 BlackBsd, yeah, standards are nice; I can continue to use the Linux kernel "for the time being", waiting for something better to come along ;] Aug 08 00:34:14 but sleep, now, I think Aug 08 00:34:31 SpeedEvil: you still here? Aug 08 00:34:40 What? Aug 08 00:34:56 Currently I'm designing the new charset for the stroke recogniser. Aug 08 00:35:11 SpeedEvil: I was looking at the carrer/ATT page and people both report success and failure with the 7300 4021 Aug 08 00:35:22 Interesting. Aug 08 00:35:27 I have no insight. Aug 08 00:35:32 Do they have different neos? Aug 08 00:35:36 or random timing? Aug 08 00:35:40 Dunno Aug 08 00:35:42 I cant figure it out Aug 08 00:35:57 better will always be building on what we have solid now Aug 08 00:36:01 if you want proof that Linux has issues any may need a major fork with ver 3.0 just look at why ZFS wont ever truly run on Linux (fuse doesnt count) Aug 08 00:36:05 like gcc Aug 08 00:36:16 s/any/and/ Aug 08 00:36:16 linux_galore meant: if you want proof that Linux has issues and may need a major fork with ver 3.0 just look at why ZFS wont ever truly run on Linux (fuse doesnt count) Aug 08 00:36:59 ignore the license issues because thats a smoke screen, there is another technical issue why ZFS will never be used in Linux Aug 08 00:37:37 zfs is not fully open source. Aug 08 00:37:41 btw Aug 08 00:37:45 fuse is nice to have, it gets Linux one microkernel benefit :] Aug 08 00:37:53 i really dont know how it made it into the bsd tree Aug 08 00:37:58 BlackBsd: yes I know but Sun is looking at putting it under GPL3 Aug 08 00:38:29 BlackBsd: even if ZFS is GPL3 it wont be in the Linux kernel Aug 08 00:39:02 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Carriers/ATT]] [[Web_Browser]] [[MokoMakefile]] [[P1_Owners]] [[Hardware:Neo1973:Alternate_Cases:Stylus_mount]] Aug 08 00:39:49 im not political enough to have a view on the gpl3 issues Aug 08 00:40:15 because the linux kernel isnt moving to gpl3? Aug 08 00:40:26 no Aug 08 00:40:53 BlackBsd: remove the fetch stamp to redownload Aug 08 00:41:17 you can also remove the tarball and md5 file in downloads if you really want it to refecth the tarball Aug 08 00:42:40 thanks Aug 08 00:43:03 BlackBsd: please add that tip to the mokomakefile wiki page Aug 08 00:43:21 i dont have a fetch stamp Aug 08 00:43:23 i have already removed the tarball Aug 08 00:44:03 BlackBsd: are you looking in the mokomakefile stamps dir or the OE stamps dir? Aug 08 00:44:15 look in build/tmp/stamps/... Aug 08 00:46:06 ll build/tmp/stamps Aug 08 00:46:15 opps sorry. wrong terminal Aug 08 00:46:34 Has a hardware graphics acceleration platform been decided? Aug 08 00:47:52 (hmh, zfs seems to be under cddl, unless I'm mistaken, and that is a free, if inconvenient, license even by fsf's list) Aug 08 00:48:29 i was looking in my moko/stamps dir. Aug 08 00:48:38 I wasn't aware there was a choice aside from opengl(es), if talking about the GPU in GTA02 Aug 08 00:49:02 im running find ./ -iname '*fetch* Aug 08 00:49:08 i will find it Aug 08 00:50:26 more importantly will the graphics driver follow the dri infrastructure? Aug 08 00:50:39 sdl? Aug 08 00:51:18 that find command is returning a ton of crap. Aug 08 00:52:37 defer_, would be curious if it didn't, again, but what do I know... Aug 08 00:52:54 it would be interesting to hear on the subject from some of the core team Aug 08 00:55:36 though I wouldn't be too sure it's on the top of their project priority list for now Aug 08 00:56:20 hmm. how do I get bitbake to not require quilt 0.45 but use 0.46 which is installed? Aug 08 00:57:20 rwhitby, for some reason i cannot find the stamp file i need i wonder if i run some other make target to grab it? Aug 08 00:57:31 once i figure that out i can add the tip to the wiki Aug 08 00:59:42 * defer shoots his isp Aug 08 01:00:24 probally better than my isp.. Aug 08 01:00:37 i have satelite which throttles after 100mb download Aug 08 01:00:46 yet they charge my left arm Aug 08 01:00:58 On the other hand, you can move your internet around without problems. Aug 08 01:01:09 BlackBsd: i have fixed wireless isp Aug 08 01:01:37 dsl :\ Aug 08 01:07:11 ok guys, i need to go get more bandwith.. see you l8tr Aug 08 01:13:55 * SpeedEvil is having interestingly good results with the stroke recogniser and a custom alphabet. Aug 08 01:14:36 Basically - nothing like english. Aug 08 01:18:16 Has 150GB per month account 22Mb/s Aug 08 01:18:26 muwahahaha Aug 08 01:18:51 still not as good as Sth Korea though Aug 08 01:19:05 100mb/s no cap Aug 08 01:20:30 linux_galore: i have 100mb/s without cap here at the momment ;) Aug 08 01:20:33 10€/month Aug 08 01:20:53 borg_: dam thats cheap Aug 08 01:20:59 its from the university ;) Aug 08 01:21:10 i will so miss it when i got my master Aug 08 01:21:11 :( Aug 08 01:21:29 borg_: aaah Uni accounts. torrent heaven lol Aug 08 01:21:49 borg_: have to use tor now Aug 08 01:22:37 for what? Aug 08 01:22:40 using torrent? Aug 08 01:22:42 thats odd Aug 08 01:23:04 there are so many legal things you can get as a torrent Aug 08 01:26:49 Hmm, another error, any ideas on this one? Building mokomakefile. http://rafb.net/p/Of10LM53.html Aug 08 01:40:42 Has anyone played with clutter? Aug 08 01:43:31 clutter? Aug 08 01:46:55 ok i had a icons_svn tarball in my sources directory that was corrupt so i deleted it, does anyone know the file i have to delete to cause the makefile to redownload this file? Aug 08 01:47:39 i have tried to look for the file under stamps which i thought would work, but i didnt know where to look Aug 08 02:01:25 yeha Aug 08 02:01:37 i have a completly working OM2007.2 now :) Aug 08 02:09:08 nice. Aug 08 02:12:20 it looks so nice Aug 08 02:12:29 and the feedreader is working allready so well Aug 08 02:12:34 :) Aug 08 02:16:52 borg_: fonts in dialer and term sane? Aug 08 02:18:34 yes Aug 08 02:18:38 it looks completly nice Aug 08 02:18:46 did you use a snapshot or source? Aug 08 02:18:54 source Aug 08 02:19:09 cool, i'l need to try it again then Aug 08 02:19:25 ;) Aug 08 02:19:31 my build machine is soooo slow :( Aug 08 02:19:40 if someone can give me space i can upload the images Aug 08 02:19:51 that would be cool Aug 08 02:21:15 i could make an ftp drop... Aug 08 02:22:26 rwhitby, thanks for adding that tip, it helped out Aug 08 02:25:02 http://homepages.uni-paderborn.de/olaf/dinge/neo/images/ Aug 08 02:25:05 here we are Aug 08 02:25:42 where should i ah ouch Aug 08 02:25:50 ouch Aug 08 02:25:51 borg_: thanks d/l Aug 08 02:25:53 didnt work Aug 08 02:26:03 jaebird: the image isnt fully transfered Aug 08 02:26:08 ok... Aug 08 02:26:12 i dont have enough space at my university account Aug 08 02:26:13 :( Aug 08 02:26:15 sry Aug 08 02:29:08 grrr... Dead battery again. Aug 08 02:36:43 Hmm, another error, any ideas on this one? Building mokomakefile. http://rafb.net/p/Of10LM53.html Aug 08 02:38:22 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[P1_Owners]] Aug 08 02:45:49 has anyone seen a problem that prevents the neo1973 from turning on ? Aug 08 02:47:18 bork_: still here? Aug 08 02:47:53 borg_: rather Aug 08 02:48:29 my neo stopped turning on Aug 08 02:48:46 Here's a question for the group: When the image boots, "openmoko-dialer" is run in a process. Is there any way to access that process? Aug 08 02:48:58 alr, just plug it in and be patient Aug 08 02:49:21 alr, you ran the battery all the way down. When I do this, I just plug it into a powered hub for a while (1-2 hrs) Aug 08 02:49:34 oh. cool. thanks. Aug 08 02:49:36 In fact, I'm doing that now, since the device decided to kaput when I came home Aug 08 02:49:47 that's what happened to me too. Aug 08 02:49:54 what's battery life like ? Aug 08 02:50:06 Others are concerned they are trashing the device and need special tools to restore, but I've done this three times without any noticeable side effects Aug 08 02:50:14 2-3 hrs, probably Aug 08 02:50:16 Maybe a little more. Aug 08 02:50:25 I made it 5 hrs, but then I turned it off. Aug 08 02:50:31 The battery still drained down to nothing. Aug 08 02:50:51 ello all Aug 08 02:50:52 You should probably take the battery out when it's off to be sure it doesn't do this. Aug 08 02:51:01 BryceLeo, heya Aug 08 02:51:25 mine isn't dead Aug 08 02:51:37 jaebird, Well, you're better than I Aug 08 02:51:39 sagacis: how's the night treating you? (well night from my part of the world) Aug 08 02:51:47 Night here, too (TX) Aug 08 02:51:57 OK. busy. Just now sat down. Aug 08 02:52:11 with a dead device. I got a sim card and activated it today. Aug 08 02:52:14 sagacis: haha ouch Aug 08 02:52:26 Tried to make my first call and got feedback... :( Aug 08 02:52:35 but atleast you got something! Aug 08 02:52:40 I connected. Aug 08 02:52:44 That's what counts. Aug 08 02:52:51 Using libgsmd-tool Aug 08 02:53:00 The dialer never worked. Aug 08 02:53:27 I asked a few minutes ago, "The image starts openmoko-dialer on launch. How do I access that process?" Aug 08 02:53:42 A follow-on: Shouldn't the dialer app be "RunOnce"? Aug 08 02:57:49 yesh. **** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed Aug 08 02:59:57 2007