**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Aug 29 02:59:56 2007
Aug 29 03:00:24 <sagacis> 60-80 kps, according to the spec
Aug 29 03:00:33 <cw666> sagacis: do you have it working yet?
Aug 29 03:01:30 <doc|home> 60-80? back in my day you used to pay a lot of money for that kind of connection, and you'd be damn pleased about it too!
Aug 29 03:01:36 * doc|home shakes his zimmerframe
Aug 29 03:02:45 <sagacis> cw666: It's working fine.  I've had it working for a couple weeks.  Today I got on-demand connect and idle-hangup working
Aug 29 03:03:04 <sagacis> doc|home: These days it's piggy slow....
Aug 29 03:03:36 <doc|home> :)
Aug 29 03:03:57 <cw666> sagacis: if you get a chance it might be nice to add those details to the wiki
Aug 29 03:05:51 <juri_> sagis: there are others here who would bbe very interested in a tutorial on that. :)
Aug 29 03:06:27 <cw666> actually, im looking over what's required here and i wonder if i need a username/password for t-mobile in the US
Aug 29 03:07:22 <sagacis> cw666: I'm working in that very direction.
Aug 29 03:11:52 <gcb77> is there an irc client in the repositories yet?
Aug 29 03:12:54 <defer_> irssi might not be the most pleasant thing on the neo
Aug 29 03:13:43 <cw666> w/ a remote keyboard it might be ok
Aug 29 03:13:51 <cw666> dont they make small bt keyboards?
Aug 29 03:14:35 <Aria> They do
Aug 29 03:17:37 <sagacis> gcb77: I installed pidgin
Aug 29 03:17:45 <sagacis> That gives you im and irc
Aug 29 03:18:05 <sagacis> although the gtalk hasn't worked for me because my ssl ipkg failed md5 checksum
Aug 29 03:18:12 <pjz> is there some kind of pidgin-compact or something?
Aug 29 03:18:56 <sagacis> cw666: I don't know about T-Mobile (google it), but I used gprs, gprs for Cingular
Aug 29 03:20:21 <sagacis> I hope I'm still connected
Aug 29 03:41:41 <aloril> (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Manually_using_GPRS]] [[Hardware:Neo1973:Alternate_Cases:Camera]]
Aug 29 04:03:23 <sagacis> now if only my gsm would start reliably
Aug 29 04:03:27 <sagacis> :(
Aug 29 04:17:07 <abraxa_> Does anyone happen to know of a way to build a certain OE package without any dependencies?
Aug 29 04:17:32 <doc|home> anyone got screenshots of the new interface?
Aug 29 04:17:40 <doc|home> or even a movie?
Aug 29 04:18:19 <abraxa_> doc|home: "new interface" as in 2007.2?
Aug 29 04:19:27 <doc|home> abraxa_: yep, and the new artwork if possible?
Aug 29 04:26:30 <abraxa_> doc|home: I'm not sure what kind of artwork you refer to but there are mockups: http://svn.openmoko.org/trunk/src/target/mockups/ -- there are videos like http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k9eDkhHdNLI -- there are screenshots on the wiki, e.g. http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Dialer/2007.2
Aug 29 04:27:46 <doc|home> abraxa_: thanks
Aug 29 04:29:32 <abraxa_> You're welcome
Aug 29 04:30:05 <Jason1> Are their any know issues with 2007.2 and gsmd/dialer?  Is that stuff supposed to work now?
Aug 29 04:30:48 <cw666> abraxa_: gah, svn/apache server doesnt set the mime/type
Aug 29 04:33:12 <hozer> what is a known-good u-boot?
Aug 29 04:33:24 * hozer has a debug board, but I don't want to go bricking it just yet ;0
Aug 29 04:37:55 <gcb77> cw666: I used the one in the 2007.2 announcement e-mail and its working good for me
Aug 29 04:50:03 <blindcoder> moin
Aug 29 05:18:08 <cworth> So is there some sane way to have two usbnet devices simultaneously?
Aug 29 05:18:39 <cworth> That is, I want to be able to connect either phone and login to it by name with ssh regardless of which order I plug them in.
Aug 29 05:20:54 * cworth should also track down instructions for getting bluetooth-based networking between the devices
Aug 29 05:42:01 <aloril> (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Talk:Manually_using_GPRS]] [[Manually_using_GPRS]]
Aug 29 05:48:32 <cw666> can the gsm' module's firmware be upgraded?
Aug 29 05:48:56 <cw666> i ask this because it seems to be a tad quicky and i wonder if updates might be possible in time?
Aug 29 05:51:31 <CM> cw666: I think that will be possible. At least they said that TI was working on bug #666 to get the 3g sim-cards working
Aug 29 06:10:54 <abraxa_> cw666: Discussions in this channel have suggested that only TI can update the firmware of the Calypso chipset
Aug 29 06:28:57 <Richard> madplay use 20% cpu, but gst uses 80-90% cpu, and not fluently. why?
Aug 29 06:29:49 <cw666> abraxa_: meaning it can't be done on a shipped unit then?
Aug 29 06:30:47 <abraxa_> cw666: That's what was suggested
Aug 29 06:31:14 <abraxa_> Richard: That's a very good question - having an answer+fix would make me a happy man
Aug 29 06:32:54 <Richard> do you have the same problem?
Aug 29 06:32:58 <abraxa_> Yep
Aug 29 06:32:58 <cw666> gst is what?
Aug 29 06:33:11 <Richard> gst is gstreamer
Aug 29 06:33:15 <CIA-20> openmoko: 03abraxa * r2847 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-mediaplayer2/src/ (editor_page.c main.c main_page.c playlist.c playlist_page.c): Fixed UI issues apparent when run on the Neo
Aug 29 06:34:33 <Richard> some bodies 's gst use only 20% cpu, like madplay.
Aug 29 07:50:54 <cdbot2> * * OM Bug 770 has been created by fabchevalier(AT)free.fr
Aug 29 07:50:54 <cdbot2> * * Battery discharging while phone is off
Aug 29 07:50:55 <cdbot2> * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=770
Aug 29 07:52:55 <CM> Was that the gsm chip issue?
Aug 29 07:53:16 * CM takes a coffee break
Aug 29 07:54:53 * ScaredyCat still wants to know why qt neds to be fully built for webkit... I just don;t get it
Aug 29 07:55:09 <hhf423_w> wow
Aug 29 07:55:11 <hhf423_w> http://www.roughlydrafted.com/RD/RDM.Tech.Q3.07/B10AE668-EAD3-46DC-A042-5EF3461D63EF.html
Aug 29 07:55:16 <hhf423_w> thats a proper rant
Aug 29 07:58:51 <ScaredyCat> hhf423_w: screw the rant, what's the phone holder in the picture ?
Aug 29 08:00:48 <hhf423_w> whut? which picture?
Aug 29 08:02:25 <ScaredyCat> http://www.roughlydrafted.com/RD/RDM.Tech.Q3.07/B10AE668-EAD3-46DC-A042-5EF3461D63EF_files/imageEffectsAbove_openmoko-neo1973-car-kit.png
Aug 29 08:07:52 <CIA-20> openmoko: 03laforge * r2848 10/trunk/src/target/u-boot/patches/uboot-gta02.patch: * reset glamo3362 on GTA02v2, too
Aug 29 08:09:27 <ynezz> hhf423_w: i wonder what's so proper about this? it's comapring apples and oranges
Aug 29 08:10:54 <hhf423_w> ynezz: so you are accusing Sean to comparing apples and oranges? Apple did not compare the Neo to iPhone, FIC/OpenMoko did
Aug 29 08:11:31 <ynezz> ScaredyCat: yea, something like openmoko-minimal-image would be good
Aug 29 08:12:47 <ynezz> hhf423_w: in a state as it is? i doubt it
Aug 29 08:13:25 <hhf423_w> ynezz: so you did not look ath the youtube videos?
Aug 29 08:13:41 <ynezz> -ENOFLASH
Aug 29 08:15:05 <ynezz> anyway bad words spread faster, it's cheap marketing
Aug 29 08:17:06 <jeddy3> hhf423_w, yes the videos certainly do, but the videos have _nothing_ to do with FIC or OpenMoko
Aug 29 08:17:23 <jeddy3> hhf423_w, as companies
Aug 29 08:27:11 <borg_>     <init-param>
Aug 29 08:27:11 <borg_>       <param-name>indexJSP</param-name>
Aug 29 08:27:11 <borg_>       <param-value>/bic/jsp/custom/index.jsp</param-value>
Aug 29 08:27:11 <borg_>       <description>forward to this page if session is new</description>
Aug 29 08:27:17 <borg_> oooops
Aug 29 08:27:18 <borg_> sry
Aug 29 08:27:28 <borg_> wrong key ;)
Aug 29 08:30:27 * XorA smells a trolling agenda at roughlydrafted.com
Aug 29 08:30:47 <zash_se> omg, are you serial?
Aug 29 08:31:17 <XorA> eh?
Aug 29 08:31:51 <jeddy3> ...or maybe paralell...? :)
Aug 29 08:32:32 <zash_se> :D
Aug 29 08:33:06 <zash_se>  /* south park episode-ref */
Aug 29 08:35:06 <jeddy3> aaah, missed that xD
Aug 29 08:35:35 * jeddy3 is not in with american slang :)
Aug 29 08:38:03 <torpor> morning
Aug 29 08:41:27 <ScaredyCat> ynezz: yes, perhaps removeing those games too :)
Aug 29 08:41:52 <torpor> what games?
Aug 29 08:41:58 * XorA is a cereal killer
Aug 29 08:42:07 <ScaredyCat> cocopops
Aug 29 08:42:12 <torpor> eh?
Aug 29 08:42:15 <ScaredyCat> on the neo
Aug 29 08:42:21 <torpor> <-- not enough coffee
Aug 29 08:42:26 <ScaredyCat> games on the neo
Aug 29 08:42:34 <torpor> cocopops is a neo game?  is it good?
Aug 29 08:42:39 <ScaredyCat> cocopops in response to XorA
Aug 29 08:42:50 <torpor> oh
Aug 29 08:42:54 <XorA> ScaredyCat: at least you have enough coffee for the joke
Aug 29 08:43:01 * ScaredyCat injects top
Aug 29 08:43:06 <zash_se> cocopoop
Aug 29 08:43:07 <torpor> i got scummvm working on then eo yesterday, loaded up "beneath a steel blue sky", but it doesn't seem to work ...
Aug 29 08:43:08 * ScaredyCat injects torpor with caffine
Aug 29 08:43:22 <ScaredyCat> XorA: I've had a bucket :)
Aug 29 08:44:13 <ScaredyCat> I'd have lots of games, except I have no space to put them... and copying direct to the sd is broken
Aug 29 08:44:37 <ScaredyCat> ... and of course my lappy sd reader doesn;t work under linux
Aug 29 08:45:13 <ScaredyCat> omfg!
Aug 29 08:45:17 <ScaredyCat> penny drops
Aug 29 08:45:53 <mjr> yeah those readers are bit of barstands
Aug 29 08:46:02 <mjr> they should make internal laptop readers connected to usb
Aug 29 08:47:55 <CM> If this is true, I wonder if some nice apps could be "borrowed": http://www.engadget.com/2007/08/28/google-is-working-on-a-mobile-os-and-its-due-out-shortly/
Aug 29 08:50:14 <torpor> CM: i think google are using openembedded.
Aug 29 08:50:17 <torpor> so the answer is: yes.
Aug 29 08:50:23 <ScaredyCat> :)
Aug 29 08:50:28 <torpor> ScaredyCat: i copied files to /media/card last night no problems .. 
Aug 29 08:50:40 <ScaredyCat> that could very easily kill FIC
Aug 29 08:50:42 <borg_> ScaredyCat: my reader in my laptop works :)
Aug 29 08:50:53 <borg_> i copied files on the sd card this way
Aug 29 08:50:59 <ScaredyCat> torpor: how much did you copy?
Aug 29 08:51:12 <ScaredyCat> borg_: yes, it just depends on the make
Aug 29 08:51:20 <CM> torpor: Oh? Why you think so? :)
Aug 29 08:51:49 <torpor> 500k
Aug 29 08:51:58 <torpor> CM: just a hunch
Aug 29 08:52:05 <CM> Ok :)
Aug 29 08:52:36 <ScaredyCat> hrmm... I still get sdio errors
Aug 29 08:52:43 <CM> torpor: I'd think they use something else though. They seem to prefer to do things on their own
Aug 29 08:52:48 <XorA> ScaredyCat: killing FIC isnt on the cards, they have a lot more business than just OpenMoko
Aug 29 08:52:49 <ScaredyCat> but 500k is nothing...
Aug 29 08:53:08 <ScaredyCat> try copying a couple of multi mb files torpor
Aug 29 08:53:22 <ScaredyCat> XorA: yes, I actually meant the neo
Aug 29 08:53:34 <XorA> hmm, I thought SD cards problems were fixed in latest kernel in OE :-(
Aug 29 08:53:48 <ScaredyCat> I thought so too, but not for me at least :(
Aug 29 08:54:32 * XorA will have to test later
Aug 29 08:55:23 <roh> XorA i played around with it and since the patch was in it ran fine without any ioerrors anymore
Aug 29 08:56:44 * XorA remembers that his cards are sitting on desk at home, balls
Aug 29 08:57:06 <XorA> I had one die totally as well, must get an RMA from Kingston
Aug 29 08:57:32 * roh rebuilds from a clean tmp/ again.. just to know what the starters out there must endure
Aug 29 08:58:39 <torpor> roh: good luck.  see you in 3 days.
Aug 29 09:00:11 <ScaredyCat> scp: /media/card//scum.tar.gz: Input/output error
Aug 29 09:00:20 <roh> torpor more like 4-6hours
Aug 29 09:00:46 <XorA> if I need a quick build I turn off binary locales
Aug 29 09:00:52 <roh> torpor thinkpad t60p and i already have a up-to-date mtn checkout and nearly all source checkouts done
Aug 29 09:01:12 <roh> XorA i know.. but thats more a question of 20-40 minutes
Aug 29 09:01:32 <roh> i'll wrap it in 'time' and see what happens
Aug 29 09:06:40 <torpor> roh: big machine?
Aug 29 09:06:44 <torpor> oh
Aug 29 09:07:15 <torpor> how do you turn off bin locales?  i too want a quick build.
Aug 29 09:08:57 <XorA> dual xeon, 4 threads and it monsters the build
Aug 29 09:09:39 <torpor> yoikes, i want one.
Aug 29 09:09:58 <torpor> i coulda spent 3000 bucks on a big fat-ass machine, and i got this macbook instead.  
Aug 29 09:10:23 <CM> torpor: http://claesmogren.com/~cm/neo/local.conf
Aug 29 09:10:44 <CM> torpor: Last line. :)
Aug 29 09:13:11 <torpor> right i'm gonna do that too ..
Aug 29 09:16:15 <roh> torpor notebook. core2 duo 2.33 with 2gig ram and fast disk.
Aug 29 09:16:42 <roh> and the much improved parallel build of bb 1.8 helps too
Aug 29 09:20:25 <ScaredyCat> ENABLE_BINARY_LOCALE_GENERATION = "0"
Aug 29 09:20:40 <torpor> i gotta do that parallel bit ..
Aug 29 09:21:17 <ScaredyCat> i had real issues with the parallel builds
Aug 29 09:21:18 <CM> I want a Barcelona first :D
Aug 29 09:22:49 <alexzhan1> Can anyone tell me how to enlarge the default font on 2007.2? :)
Aug 29 09:22:57 <roh> ScaredyCat i had no issues that went away without.. so it seems i didn't hit the ones you did
Aug 29 09:23:18 <alexzhan1> it's too small on QVGA screen.
Aug 29 09:24:53 <alexzhan1> ???????????????;);););););););););););)
Aug 29 09:31:52 <ScaredyCat> roh: I had major corruption issues
Aug 29 09:32:19 <roh> ScaredyCat with what version of bb?
Aug 29 09:32:47 <ScaredyCat> 1.8.7
Aug 29 09:33:06 <roh> hm.. i.8.9 here... but that shouldn't matter
Aug 29 09:33:16 <roh> or wait..  
Aug 29 09:41:41 <aloril> (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[FAQ]]
Aug 29 09:41:53 <cdbot2> * * OM Bug 771 has been created by fabchevalier(AT)free.fr
Aug 29 09:41:54 <cdbot2> * * Touching LCD screen does not wakeup neo anymore
Aug 29 09:41:55 <cdbot2> * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=771
Aug 29 09:42:40 <roh> nih... thats no bug iuf its in suspend-to-ram
Aug 29 09:45:41 <zash_se> hm, when making a call, is there something to stop one from hanging up with ones ear or something?
Aug 29 09:48:52 <rwhitby> http://people.openmoko.org/ninjutsu/
Aug 29 09:49:02 <rwhitby> pictures of GTA02
Aug 29 09:51:12 <CM> rwhitby: Thanks, interesting
Aug 29 09:53:30 <wibbit> I'm guessing the answer to this will be no.... However.
Aug 29 09:54:04 <wibbit> On Nokia phones (and possibly others), one can set an alarm on the phone and then "turn it off", it will then switch on at the specified time and run the alarm.
Aug 29 09:54:10 <wibbit> Will the Neo be able to do this?
Aug 29 09:54:29 <CM> I can't imagine that
Aug 29 09:54:39 <rwhitby> depends what you mean by "off"
Aug 29 09:55:22 <wibbit> Well, I just spent a month in Ecuador, and charged my phone when I arrived, and still and pretty much a full battery when I returned. and only used it as alarm it was "off" the rest of the time. On one battery charge
Aug 29 09:55:26 <jeddy3> i imagine the nokia isn't completely off
Aug 29 09:55:36 <rwhitby> if you mean deep sleep where an RTC interrupt can wake it, then it should be able to do that.  Dunno whether GTA02 has an RTC which can do that.
Aug 29 09:56:15 <wibbit> jeddy3: hmm, well that's obvious :p other wise it wouldn't wake up again, however the battery drain is tiny to say the least.
Aug 29 09:56:32 <wibbit> It's obviously not a do or die, but it is incredibly handy.
Aug 29 09:56:52 <CM> I think it has a tiny clock chip that does the alarm thing
Aug 29 09:56:53 <jeddy3> wibbit, but as rwhitby said, it's pretty darn close
Aug 29 09:57:11 <CM> I mean the phone itself is probably completely off
Aug 29 09:57:42 <jeddy3> if thats the case, a clock interrupt could be just about the same as a powerbutton interrupt, right?
Aug 29 09:57:54 <jeddy3> CM, nod
Aug 29 09:58:14 <wibbit> jeddy3: but the hardware would still need to be there, and software support to program it.
Aug 29 09:58:21 * wibbit shrugs
Aug 29 09:58:23 <jeddy3> wibbit, yes
Aug 29 09:58:29 <Dmitry_Platonov> rwhitby, what GPS chip is used?
Aug 29 09:58:33 <roh> rwhitby afaik also gta1 has a pmu which has a timer based wakeup
Aug 29 09:59:11 <roh> rwhitby and the rtc used by linux on gta01 is the one in the pmu
Aug 29 09:59:31 <CM> Dmitry_Platonov: Hammerhead PMB 2520 AGPS from Global Locate
Aug 29 09:59:33 <jeddy3> i see you point about being off out in the wilderness =)...but i can't remember when i turned my phone off last
Aug 29 09:59:44 <wibbit> Just think it would be good.
Aug 29 10:00:15 <Dmitry_Platonov> CM, I mean in GTA02. There where rumors on vendor switch
Aug 29 10:00:17 <rwhitby> wibbit: since the pmu has an rtc with wakeup interrupt, the software is trivial.
Aug 29 10:00:37 <CM> Dmitry_Platonov: Ah, that would be interesting
Aug 29 10:00:48 <roh> Dmitry_Platonov i dunno if we released that yet ;)
Aug 29 10:01:02 <rwhitby> Dmitry_Platonov: more than rumours, Harald stated it clearly in a video I saw
Aug 29 10:01:07 <wibbit> jeddy3: funnily enough, I've now got in to the habbit of turning my mobile off at night, and just having the alarm wake me up in the morning, I know I could just as easily set it to silent, but on my current phone silent means "vibrate" which can still be anoying when one is just about to fall asleep
Aug 29 10:01:13 <roh> Dmitry_Platonov but i can say there will be much less hassle as there is now to get nmea
Aug 29 10:01:16 <wibbit> Though, the rest of the time, I like silent meaning vibrate
Aug 29 10:01:24 <jeddy3> wibbit, :)
Aug 29 10:01:36 <CM> roh: Will there be any support for the P1 phones?
Aug 29 10:01:54 <cjb_ie> my current phone (SE p910i) is really annoying - i have it set to silent-but-vibrate - but when it's on charge, it disables vibrate
Aug 29 10:01:56 <CM> I'd be quite disappointed if I can't even use the gps in the P1
Aug 29 10:02:02 <roh> CM we are working on that.
Aug 29 10:02:03 * jeddy3 would LOVE to see some progress with current GPS-chip and drivers
Aug 29 10:02:04 <wibbit> rwhitby: excellent that in theory it is supported, just gota hope some one with significantly more skill than me (being none) decides to do it :)
Aug 29 10:02:25 <Dmitry_Platonov> roh, it's pity. in short term, it's good. but in long term, it disables certain features
Aug 29 10:02:38 <jeddy3> cjb_ie, that always has irritated me also!
Aug 29 10:02:45 <wibbit> cjb_ie: I've had a few that have done that as well, and yes, it is rather annoying.
Aug 29 10:03:17 <wibbit> jeddy3: is there not much development going ahead with the GPS stuff?
Aug 29 10:03:24 <roh> Dmitry_Platonov i do not see that yet. the new vendor is very cooperative when it comes to opensource
Aug 29 10:03:36 <jeddy3> wibbit, i have no idea
Aug 29 10:04:12 <Dmitry_Platonov> roh, is nmea output is generated on chip? if yes, are they willing to opensource firmware?
Aug 29 10:04:50 <jeddy3> roh, is there any info you are allowed to share with us on gllin progress, or are we on a need-to-know-basis? :)
Aug 29 10:05:02 <roh> Dmitry_Platonov nmea is afaik one mode of output. but i heard there is also another mode. there is no info about selfbuild firmware
Aug 29 10:05:47 <Dmitry_Platonov> roh, is new chip Sirf III?
Aug 29 10:05:51 <roh> jeddy3 nope. its still in progress. globallocate was sold...
Aug 29 10:05:55 <roh> Dmitry_Platonov nope
Aug 29 10:06:00 <hads> The ability to do poor mans DGPS would be nifty
Aug 29 10:06:51 <Dmitry_Platonov> and tight coupling with accelerometers would be interesting. Hammerhead _is_ very nice chip.
Aug 29 10:08:10 <jeddy3> roh, any estimation on time frame? :)
Aug 29 10:08:17 <jeddy3> roh, sorry for buggig you, but
Aug 29 10:09:07 * jeddy3 is really interested
Aug 29 10:09:21 <florian> hi all
Aug 29 10:10:02 <roh> jeddy3 you mean on gta02? nope. i would say end of the year, but that depends on the state of software and hardware.
Aug 29 10:10:20 <jeddy3> roh, no, on current chip
Aug 29 10:10:55 <roh> jeddy3 you mean gllin release? no. that depends on a 3rd party and not openmoko or fic
Aug 29 10:11:26 <jeddy3> okay
Aug 29 10:12:21 * jeddy3 will stop pestering about it now and go back to silently waiting in anticipation
Aug 29 10:12:37 <Placid> I want a P2
Aug 29 10:12:41 <Placid> So badly
Aug 29 10:13:06 * mjr gnarls at globallocate
Aug 29 10:13:24 * Placid takes a picture of mjr gnarling
Aug 29 10:14:21 * wibbit imagines a sea of little ankle biters gnawing away at globallocate's legs
Aug 29 10:15:34 <Placid> Who or what is globallocate?
Aug 29 10:15:57 <Placid> GPS stuff
Aug 29 10:16:02 <Placid> According to Mr Google.
Aug 29 10:17:25 <mjr> yeah, the vendor for the GPS chip in GTA01
Aug 29 10:17:37 <Placid> Ahh, I see. ty
Aug 29 10:17:48 <mjr> issues with whom apparently delay getting software to work the chip
Aug 29 10:19:25 <wibbit> So there is a possability that GTA02, may have a different chip?
Aug 29 10:25:04 <mjr> apparently more than a chance, if you read back a bit...
Aug 29 10:28:07 <torpor> but does this mean we'll never have working gps software on the gta01's?  coz thats one of the main features of the device of interest to me, personally ..
Aug 29 10:29:57 <Kryoko> torpor : i thought gta02s release is closing in...so why bother with gta01 now ?
Aug 29 10:30:45 <rwhitby-n800> just what a GTA01 owner wants to hear ...
Aug 29 10:31:00 <jeddy3> Kryoko, thinking a little egoistically, are we? ;)
Aug 29 10:31:37 <Kryoko> jeddy3 : well, yes. I'm waiting for the GTA02s release at least :p
Aug 29 10:32:07 <jeddy3> Kryoko, well you aren't the only one here
Aug 29 10:32:20 <Kryoko> glad to hear that :p
Aug 29 10:32:46 <jeddy3> :)
Aug 29 10:32:50 * jeddy3 of for lunch
Aug 29 10:34:07 * rwhitby-n800 predicts jan for gta02 p1 release
Aug 29 10:34:11 * jeddy3 mean't your opinion isn't the only one here, others actually have gta01's
Aug 29 10:35:36 <Kryoko> thats just the way i understood your statement :p
Aug 29 10:35:50 <Kryoko> if everybody would share my opinion there would be no need to talk ...
Aug 29 10:36:27 <Kryoko> at least you guys should be able to properly predict gta02s pros and cons correctly...
Aug 29 10:37:19 <Kryoko> i myself am only interested in an "open" mobil phone i play with...
Aug 29 10:38:21 <torpor> Kryoko: coz i've got a gta01 sitting in front of me, thats why .. 
Aug 29 10:38:44 <Kryoko> i played with the thought of buying me a gta01...but decided against it
Aug 29 10:39:08 <Kryoko> cause i was on vacations in japan. that was quite expensive so i'm looking forward to saving some money for the gta02 now :D
Aug 29 10:39:12 <torpor> i got it because i can use its features .. now .. if only those features were actually working.
Aug 29 10:40:12 <MobsLobster> hello
Aug 29 10:40:18 <torpor> hi
Aug 29 10:41:02 <MobsLobster> is the openMoko still going to be released in october?
Aug 29 10:41:02 <aloril> MobsLobster: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (and also SH1, SH1_FAQ, Neo1973, Developer_preview and Neo1973_Hardware#GTA01Bv4 pages) (Hopefully these links answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.)
Aug 29 10:41:14 <torpor> you mean the gta02?
Aug 29 10:41:21 <torpor> coz gta01 is released and available already
Aug 29 10:42:02 <MobsLobster> i just read on the comparison with iphone site on the wiki that release is october
Aug 29 10:42:16 <MobsLobster> so whichever release that is talking about
Aug 29 10:42:43 <rwhitby> URL?
Aug 29 10:43:07 <MobsLobster> will do
Aug 29 10:43:25 <MobsLobster> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/IPhone
Aug 29 10:43:51 <MobsLobster> then right at the bottom it talks about retail launch
Aug 29 10:45:43 <MobsLobster> so is what that table says true?
Aug 29 10:45:48 <ScaredyCat> omone should just delete that page
Aug 29 10:45:56 <ScaredyCat> s/omeone/someone/
Aug 29 10:46:27 <rwhitby> That's the currently released official information.  Whether you think it will happen in October is up to you to judge.  I personally think Jan is more likely as a best case.
Aug 29 10:46:49 <ScaredyCat> I mean the iphone wiki page...
Aug 29 10:47:07 * ScaredyCat blinks rapidly
Aug 29 10:47:56 <roh> rwhitby: we'll see. the hardware is already making progress.
Aug 29 10:48:14 <rwhitby> roh: believe me, I hope I'm proven wrong.
Aug 29 10:48:22 <Dmitry_Platonov> I think comparison with Glofish X500+ would be more interesting 8)
Aug 29 10:48:42 <rwhitby> but this new beast has wireless to debug before you can say the hardware is stable and do a mass market release
Aug 29 10:48:54 <roh> rwhitby its the software which makes me more nervous. still a lot work to do
Aug 29 10:49:13 * ScaredyCat agrees...
Aug 29 10:49:18 <MobsLobster> well i cant wait to get my hands on a stable moko phone
Aug 29 10:49:27 <roh> wifi is actually one of the things where i await the least of new trouble
Aug 29 10:49:39 <rwhitby> P1 developer release with no software in Oct/Nov I can believe
Aug 29 10:49:49 * ScaredyCat thinks there'll be load of problems with widi
Aug 29 10:49:53 <ScaredyCat> errm
Aug 29 10:49:54 <ScaredyCat> wifi
Aug 29 10:49:54 <aloril> Currently sold Neo1973 GTA01B_v04 (P1) doesn't have WiFi, GTA02 (P2) which is scheduled for October will have WiFi with free (libre) drivers (Atheros AR6K): http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973  http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ#Q:_What_is_the_rationale_behind_the_exclusion_of_WiFi.3F
Aug 29 10:50:05 <MobsLobster> should GTA02 be stable enough for a non-dev to use?
Aug 29 10:50:18 <ScaredyCat> shut it aloril - it wasn;t a question
Aug 29 10:50:22 <roh> ScaredyCat wifi is in good hands.
Aug 29 10:50:22 <aloril> hehe
Aug 29 10:50:29 <rwhitby> MobsLobster: ask again after it is released.  how on earth would we be able to answer that now?
Aug 29 10:50:33 <ScaredyCat> roh: I mean the s/w side
Aug 29 10:50:53 <ScaredyCat> particularly stuff like the channels available in regions
Aug 29 10:51:03 <roh> ScaredyCat its a hardmac card and we have one of the most experienced people when it comes to atheros on it.
Aug 29 10:51:12 <MobsLobster> well if one of you guys was on the "making" team or "hardware dev" you might know
Aug 29 10:51:13 <ScaredyCat> the nokia 770 I got from expansys was a us model.. no chan 12
Aug 29 10:51:16 <roh> s/people/persons
Aug 29 10:51:24 <rwhitby> roh: I trust the hands that wifi is in, but the integration with software for a mass market release is a big job
Aug 29 10:52:02 <rwhitby> MobsLobster: the hardware is the least of the problems with stability for a non-dev
Aug 29 10:52:43 <MobsLobster> either way a dev would know and i didnt know if the devs hang out here
Aug 29 10:52:45 <Dmitry_Platonov> roh, what "hardmac" means?
Aug 29 10:53:14 <roh> Dmitry_Platonov the 802.11 stack runs on the card itself. like the old silver orinoco ones.
Aug 29 10:54:06 <roh> Dmitry_Platonov which is good since the card can run in low power and the app cpu does not need to handle stuff like beacons all the time, keeping it out of idle state
Aug 29 10:54:07 <rwhitby> MobsLobster: how would a dev (and there are plenty of them here) know what the stabilty for non-devs will be for a device that has only just got the second rev of prototypes, and has only just got the bootloader working on it?
Aug 29 10:54:49 <rwhitby> roh: also allows for OLPC-type cpu-power-off mesh networking, right?
Aug 29 10:55:07 <Dmitry_Platonov> roh, does it has "monitor" mode?
Aug 29 10:55:08 <MobsLobster> rwhitby i truly have no idea and also have no idea what stage of dev the phone is in so calm down
Aug 29 10:55:27 <roh> rwhitby if someone would write firmware for it that does that... 
Aug 29 10:55:42 <rwhitby> MobsLobster: I'm perfectly calm - I'm just setting your expectations correctly for this stage of the hardware/software development cycle.
Aug 29 10:55:58 <roh> Dmitry_Platonov i do not know yet.
Aug 29 10:56:10 <XorA> rwhitby: tell the truth, you have the chainsaw ready :-D
Aug 29 10:56:29 <Kryoko> did someone mention chainsaws ?
Aug 29 10:56:29 <rwhitby> roh: does OM have full access to wifi firmware source?
Aug 29 10:56:31 <Kryoko> where are the zombies ?
Aug 29 10:56:33 <roh> XorA you switch yours off?
Aug 29 10:56:56 <roh> rwhitby afaik not. nobody outside atheros has.
Aug 29 10:57:11 <roh> _afaik_
Aug 29 10:57:13 <MobsLobster> rwhitby ok, it just seemed to me that u were getting aggressive sorry. also i hope a shop in Australia decides to sell the moko
Aug 29 10:57:38 <rwhitby> MobsLobster: what part of our great land are you from?
Aug 29 10:58:07 <MobsLobster> if ou mean Australia then Melbourne would be the answer. yourself?
Aug 29 10:58:17 <rwhitby> Adelaide at the moment.
Aug 29 10:58:52 <rwhitby> Just unbricked a GTA01 for a guy from Sydney today.  He DHL'd it over, and I gave it back to DHL the same day, so he'll have it back tomorrow.
Aug 29 10:59:34 <MobsLobster> kool
Aug 29 10:59:51 <rwhitby> I should have taken a photo of the three neo's together.
Aug 29 11:00:00 <cjb_ie> rwhitby: ouch, i wonder what the price differential between 2xDHL and 1xdebug board was
Aug 29 11:00:46 <rwhitby> cjb: probably still $100 difference
Aug 29 11:01:00 <rwhitby> and you can bet he won't brick it again :-)
Aug 29 11:02:29 <CM> I guess you have to have either bad luck or no clue what you're doing to brick it
Aug 29 11:02:52 <jgm> I nearly bricked mine with an incorrect paramter to dfu-util
Aug 29 11:02:55 <jgm> It's not that hard
Aug 29 11:02:56 <torpor> its not so hard to brick.
Aug 29 11:03:01 <jgm> (Or am I just clueless? :))
Aug 29 11:03:03 <roh> CM i think  carefull balanced combination of both is needed.
Aug 29 11:03:34 <roh> jgm the most prominent mistake is to nand erase all partitions i think
Aug 29 11:04:08 <roh> but then you can still save it by uploading a image to ram and flash it... just do not switch off
Aug 29 11:07:21 <CM> torpor: I agree with the gps thing you said though
Aug 29 11:07:38 <torpor> CM: i'd be quite happy if i could have a working GPS with my neo1973.. but so far its been a no-go.
Aug 29 11:07:41 <CM> torpor: I'd be really disappointed if i can't use my P1 as a gps
Aug 29 11:08:12 <CM> I'd like that car holder too, and some nice map application
Aug 29 11:08:32 * CM keeps hoping and dreaming
Aug 29 11:08:36 <torpor> theres some sorta way to get gps working, i know .. 
Aug 29 11:08:46 <torpor> like, get the illegal bin on there, and stuff
Aug 29 11:08:51 <torpor> but whats a good mapping application?
Aug 29 11:08:52 * ScaredyCat appears in CM's dreams, making them nightmares
Aug 29 11:09:03 <CM> ScaredyCat: :P
Aug 29 11:09:13 <CM> torpor: It won't work with 2007.2
Aug 29 11:09:48 <ScaredyCat> maybe we could do an exchange then,,,
Aug 29 11:09:56 <torpor> CM: right
Aug 29 11:10:06 <ScaredyCat> we send our neos back and get 02's :D
Aug 29 11:10:08 <torpor> so then there's just no GPs app for the moko yet ..
Aug 29 11:10:30 <torpor> is anyone working on it?  if so who are they?  what can be done to help?
Aug 29 11:10:34 <torpor> <-- wants working GPS ..
Aug 29 11:11:19 <ewon> torpor: iirc someone is having a go at porting maemomapper, but don't hold yer breath
Aug 29 11:11:34 <ewon> more immediate concern is getting nmea out of the device...
Aug 29 11:12:04 <ScaredyCat> did the reverse engineering stop then ?
Aug 29 11:12:04 <wibbit> ewon: nmea?
Aug 29 11:12:21 <ScaredyCat> wibbit.. is that like, not quite a wabbit ?
Aug 29 11:12:29 <CM> ewon: How far along is that, and is there anything we can help with without being elite hw hackers?
Aug 29 11:12:39 * wibbit shrugs
Aug 29 11:12:44 <wibbit> ScaredyCat: Just liked the sound :)
Aug 29 11:12:48 <torpor> ewon: who is it?
Aug 29 11:12:57 <ScaredyCat> CM: I think you mean : l337 h4X0rz
Aug 29 11:13:17 <ScaredyCat> posh wabbit :{
Aug 29 11:13:29 <torpor> i'd be quite happy to do what it takes to help reverse engineer gllin, if that was useful ..
Aug 29 11:13:44 <CM> ScaredyCat: Of course, but I don't want to show my s3kr1t sK1llZ :P
Aug 29 11:13:49 <ScaredyCat> dissassemble it torpor
Aug 29 11:13:59 <ScaredyCat> lol CM
Aug 29 11:14:05 <Dmitry_Platonov> Is there any point in RE hammerhead?
Aug 29 11:14:34 <ScaredyCat> are there docs then Dmitry_Platonov?
Aug 29 11:14:59 <Dmitry_Platonov> no
Aug 29 11:15:15 <ScaredyCat> so, the answer to your question would be : yes
Aug 29 11:15:30 <ewon> check the wiki... I'm unsure of the current status of the binary driver
Aug 29 11:15:45 <Dmitry_Platonov> I think there will be gllin available soon.
Aug 29 11:16:18 <ScaredyCat> even though the gps chip appears to have changed for 02?
Aug 29 11:16:25 <ScaredyCat> (or did I missread that?)
Aug 29 11:16:49 <ewon> has it?
Aug 29 11:16:49 <Dmitry_Platonov> ScaredyCat, new chip capable of nmea output itself
Aug 29 11:16:53 <ewon> sweet
Aug 29 11:17:07 <ewon> an sirf-iii?
Aug 29 11:17:11 * ewon hops
Aug 29 11:17:13 <ewon> *hopes
Aug 29 11:17:18 <Dmitry_Platonov> no. better one ^_^
Aug 29 11:17:24 <cjb_ie> ewon: the existing one is sirf-iii
Aug 29 11:17:25 <ScaredyCat> ok Dmitry_Platonov - but thet's in 02... what about 01 ?
Aug 29 11:17:39 <Dmitry_Platonov> I think there will be gllin for 01
Aug 29 11:17:39 <rwhitby> hey, we have pics of the GTA02 PCB now - someone check all the chip numbers.
Aug 29 11:17:46 <torpor> who is working on gllin?
Aug 29 11:17:48 <ynezz> soon as in months? :p
Aug 29 11:17:49 <wibbit> Dmitry_Platonov: I thought the sirf-iii was the latest and greatest?
Aug 29 11:18:00 <ScaredyCat> soon as in before we but 02's ?
Aug 29 11:18:18 <CM> rwhitby: Looks like the photos are of a tv showing an image of the board
Aug 29 11:18:19 <rwhitby> what's the IC marking for a sirf-iii ?
Aug 29 11:18:23 <Dmitry_Platonov> sirf-III is old 8)
Aug 29 11:18:52 <CM> torpor: That's the part globallocate should do, but they were bought by someone
Aug 29 11:19:22 <Dmitry_Platonov> by broadcom
Aug 29 11:19:25 <torpor> well lets get on top of it then.
Aug 29 11:19:41 <torpor> it makes no sense that we can't just solve this probelm ourselves.
Aug 29 11:20:25 <torpor> same thing happend with the GP2X by the way .. magiceyes did a port of linux, got bought out, screwd up the port, then left it up to us to fix it .. which we did .. and the GP2X now runs a very nicely optimized kernel for th eplatform .. 
Aug 29 11:20:54 <ScaredyCat> except the gps chip interface is closed.. so you have to re it
Aug 29 11:21:05 <ScaredyCat> and that's a slow pocess
Aug 29 11:21:08 <ScaredyCat> process
Aug 29 11:21:09 <ewon> cjb_ie: thought the existing one was a hammerhead?
Aug 29 11:21:14 <torpor> me too
Aug 29 11:21:23 <torpor> thought we could just get the refs and specs for it ..
Aug 29 11:21:29 <cjb_ie> ewon: oh. icbw
Aug 29 11:21:33 <torpor> but maybe RE'ing gllin would make sense then ..
Aug 29 11:21:47 <wibbit> Do we know if we would be able to do some thing similar to the latest TomTom's.
Aug 29 11:21:48 <ewon> if it was sirf-III it wouldn't be an issue - existing tools speak native sirf
Aug 29 11:22:17 <wibbit> They are able to work with a bluetooth linked mobile phone, to work out "where it is" and based on that, what satalites are in the sky above, and lock on significantly quicker.
Aug 29 11:22:39 <cjb_ie> ewon: assuming the sirf has the right firmware, possibly
Aug 29 11:22:59 <ewon> wibbit: nice
Aug 29 11:23:06 <ewon> cjb_ie: presumably
Aug 29 11:23:24 <cjb_ie> wibbit: right, it should be easy enough to get at least a GSM country code and hence some idea of region
Aug 29 11:23:29 * rwhitby can't identify the marking of the two chips underneath the main TI chip in http://people.openmoko.org/ninjutsu/GTA02a1_2.jpg
Aug 29 11:23:29 <Dmitry_Platonov> new chip supports DGPS, AGPS, WAAS and other stuff. Binary protocol is here too, along with NMEA.
Aug 29 11:23:41 <ewon> interesting
Aug 29 11:23:46 <ScaredyCat> we already talked about that... 
Aug 29 11:24:07 <ScaredyCat> you can get the country you are in from the network provider id
Aug 29 11:24:25 <ewon> speaking of gp2xs, I bloody wish they would dispatch mine..
Aug 29 11:24:42 <cjb_ie> ScaredyCat: yup (why oh why did the GSM folks come up with their own country codes?)
Aug 29 11:25:04 <ScaredyCat> dunno... cos they're insane? ;)
Aug 29 11:25:23 <cjb_ie> though that's mostly hidden from users these days
Aug 29 11:26:23 <ScaredyCat> there's also this http://janus.liebregts.nl/cellid/index_en.html
Aug 29 11:26:41 <wibbit> ScaredyCat: I believe TomTom are maintaining details of when satalites are at any particular point of time, and it then downloads the relevant data via the phone, depending on where the phone reports it is, if that makes sense?
Aug 29 11:27:28 <cjb_ie> wibbit: maintaining almanac is normal GPS behaviour
Aug 29 11:27:43 <wibbit> cjb_ie: This is more for initial startup
Aug 29 11:27:44 * ScaredyCat gets fired up about gpsclue .. yuuumm
Aug 29 11:27:45 <ewon> wooo, gp2x dispatched \o/
Aug 29 11:28:05 <cjb_ie> wibbit: right, i figured it was for warm rather than cold start
Aug 29 11:28:13 <wibbit> :)
Aug 29 11:29:06 <cjb_ie> where the gps has almanac but needs a clue as to where it might be, to combine with almanac to decide which sats to listen for
Aug 29 11:30:00 <wibbit> that sounds about right
Aug 29 11:30:20 * wibbit wonders what almanac is, other then some thing that sounds as if it's come out of a Sci-Fi fantasy novel
Aug 29 11:30:59 <CM> wibbit: Another word for calendar
Aug 29 11:31:00 <ewon> wibbit: array of gps sat locations
Aug 29 11:31:16 <wibbit> CM: I thought it sounded familiar.
Aug 29 11:31:26 <ewon> e.g. it's this date and time therefore gps sat x is in z part of the sky
Aug 29 11:31:38 <ewon> if i understand it correctly
Aug 29 11:31:42 <ewon> or I cuold be completely wrong.
Aug 29 11:32:20 <wibbit> Okay that makes sense.
Aug 29 11:32:25 <Dmitry_Platonov> almanac describes what sats are in system and usable, and their orbits
Aug 29 11:33:54 <Dmitry_Platonov> so, if you have "current time", you can calculate satellite position for that time.
Aug 29 11:34:22 <Dmitry_Platonov> "time"=date&time 
Aug 29 11:34:46 <cjb_ie> Dmitry_Platonov: and if you have approximate position, you know which part of sky you might be able to see.
Aug 29 11:36:04 <milo_> scrollback
Aug 29 11:36:44 <Dmitry_Platonov> cjb, right. also you can compute relative speed, and accure first fix rapidly
Aug 29 11:36:55 <cjb_ie> Dmitry_Platonov: mmm, nice.
Aug 29 11:40:40 <CM> Honestly I don't care that much how fast it gets a lock. I'd just be happy to get those nmea numbers
Aug 29 11:40:56 <CM> Also, I'd like to have a car charger that can charge the neo...
Aug 29 11:41:21 <aloril> (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Bluetooth]]
Aug 29 11:44:46 <Dmitry_Platonov> CM, I hope public version of gllin will be released. Honestly, I see no reason in RE hammerhead now (unless globallocate/broadcom/fic will not release gllin)
Aug 29 11:44:52 <wibbit> CM: Being able to get quick locks is handy, admitedly being able to USE the bugger is even more useful :)
Aug 29 11:45:46 <CM> Dmitry_Platonov: I totally agree. Just hope they get their thumbs out...
Aug 29 11:46:00 <XorA> licenses licenses licenses
Aug 29 11:48:20 <wibbit> XorA: it's almost like a song
Aug 29 11:48:51 <XorA> wibbit: dance remix, li li li li li li licenses li li li li li li licenses
Aug 29 11:49:06 <wibbit> I wonder what the trance one would be like, 
Aug 29 11:49:29 <XorA> lioioioioioioioioioioioioiencses
Aug 29 11:49:39 <wibbit> XorA: though, one could almost see Mr Ballmer jumping up and down on stage to the dance remix (with a touch of "money money money" thrown in for good measure)
Aug 29 11:58:16 <wibbit> This didn't seem to be explicity stated in the wiki, but will the GTA02 support minsd-hc (or what ever the acronym is)
Aug 29 12:05:01 <roh> wibbit already works. stefan reported success with a 4gb sdhc transflash
Aug 29 12:07:28 <wibbit> goodie :)
Aug 29 12:08:42 <wibbit> apparently 8gb modules should be coming fairly soon
Aug 29 12:09:15 <wibbit> how come FIC didn't go with standard SDCH, as opposed to mini-sd, was it just size?
Aug 29 12:13:25 <roh> wibbit dunno exactly. but afaiÂk the case was already done at that moment
Aug 29 12:31:55 <Sup3rkiddo> hi all
Aug 29 12:32:57 <zash_se> hello
Aug 29 12:37:53 <cdbot2> * * OM Bug 772 has been created by fabchevalier(AT)free.fr
Aug 29 12:37:54 <cdbot2> * * Touching LCD screen does not wakeup neo anymore
Aug 29 12:37:55 <cdbot2> * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=772
Aug 29 12:53:42 <DukeOfURL> good morning!
Aug 29 12:53:49 <DukeOfURL> is anyone else having boot problems?
Aug 29 12:53:53 <folken> openmoko-dialer crashes when you enter 4 lines of numbers. 
Aug 29 12:54:01 <woglinde> lol
Aug 29 12:54:20 <folken> (and hit the dial button)
Aug 29 12:55:16 <wibbit> that's quite funny
Aug 29 12:56:01 <wibbit> Though, not quite as funny as reading a mailing list thread, that suggests that no thought had been put in to how to actualy make a phone call from the address book app, which I think is hillarious :)
Aug 29 13:20:24 <DukeOfURL> freenode problems this morning...
Aug 29 13:20:24 <DukeOfURL> is anyone else having a problem with neo boot?
Aug 29 13:21:06 <freak01> i don't think thet any1 is online now ;p
Aug 29 13:22:01 <roh> whohoo.. build nearly through
Aug 29 13:22:22 * ScaredyCat injects errors into roh's build
Aug 29 13:22:38 <ScaredyCat> if it doesn't hurt, it's not building right ;)
Aug 29 13:24:12 <roh> done
Aug 29 13:24:13 <roh> real    263m41.129s
Aug 29 13:24:13 <roh> user    345m12.666s
Aug 29 13:24:13 <roh> sys     71m23.464s
Aug 29 13:24:51 <roh> for make all with mokomakefile and already downloaded sources
Aug 29 13:25:09 * Sup3rkiddo does the math
Aug 29 13:30:04 <torpor> eh?
Aug 29 13:30:06 <torpor> wtf?
Aug 29 13:30:06 <torpor> root@fic-gta01:~$ mount /media/card
Aug 29 13:30:06 <torpor> mount: special device /dev/mmcblk0p1 does not exist
Aug 29 13:30:22 <torpor> roh: jealous! ;)
Aug 29 13:31:27 <Dmitry_Platonov> did fresh build. uicmoc4-native still breaks for me.
Aug 29 13:33:20 <torpor> Dmitry_Platonov: how so?
Aug 29 13:38:43 <CIA-20> openmoko: 03mickey * r2849 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/artwork/themes/openmoko-standard-2/gtk-2.0/gtkprogressbar: openmoko-theme-standard-2: add ythickness to GtkProgressBar to make it less ugly
Aug 29 13:39:13 <roh> hm.. i'll just upload it to people.openmoko
Aug 29 13:41:11 <roh> http://people.openmoko.org/roh/ .. just kernel and rootfs. i havent tested this build yet, so no uboot till then
Aug 29 13:41:46 <roh>  .oO(fresh and still crispy)
Aug 29 13:42:01 <aloril> (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[User:Kensan]] [[User_talk:Kensan]] [[User_talk:Secureoffice]] [[User:Secureoffice]] [[Talk:OSvS]]
Aug 29 13:42:07 <CM> roh: I'll give it a try :)
Aug 29 13:42:26 <DukeOfURL> my neo is hanging on the splash screen after power up.  has anyone else seen this?
Aug 29 13:47:39 <white_gecko> hello
Aug 29 13:54:39 <ScaredyCat> eggsy: that fixed the problem.. looks like a common problem, the code to ouptup the file is already there :)
Aug 29 13:56:09 <milo_> where to set the PIN to use in the UI dailer? calling out with libgsmd-tool -m shell works but there is no mic and speaker connected to it. is there any more info as the gsmd wiki page?
Aug 29 13:59:26 <white_gecko> I want to run OpenMoko in My PC with mokoMakefile, when I run "make openmoko-devel-image" the last i get is:
Aug 29 13:59:29 <white_gecko> Packaged contents of glibc-localedata-translit-small into /home/natanael/Documents/tmp/openmoko/moko/build/tmp/deploy/glibc/ipk/i486/glibc-localedata-translit-small_2.5-r6_i486.ipk
Aug 29 13:59:33 <white_gecko> Packaged contents of glibc-gconv into /home/natanael/Documents/tmp/openmoko/moko/build/tmp/deploy/glibc/ipk/i486/glibc-gconv_2.5-r6_i486.ipk
Aug 29 13:59:33 <white_gecko> NOTE: package glibc-2.5-r6: task do_package_write: completed
Aug 29 13:59:33 <white_gecko> NOTE: package glibc-2.5: completed
Aug 29 13:59:33 <white_gecko> NOTE: Tasks Summary: Attempted 1352 tasks of which 1276 didn't need to be rerun and 1 failed.
Aug 29 13:59:33 <white_gecko> ERROR: '/home/natanael/Documents/tmp/openmoko/moko/openembedded/packages/openmoko-panel-plugins/openmoko-panel-bt_svn.bb' failed
Aug 29 13:59:35 <white_gecko> make: *** [openmoko-devel-image] Fehler 1
Aug 29 13:59:50 <white_gecko> wht can I do?
Aug 29 14:00:36 <CIA-20> openmoko: 03chris * r2850 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/libraries/libmokoui2/ (ChangeLog libmokoui/moko-finger-scroll.c): 
Aug 29 14:00:36 <CIA-20> openmoko: Add a style property 'indicator-width' to MokoFingerScroll, to set the
Aug 29 14:00:36 <CIA-20> openmoko: width of the scroll indicators.
Aug 29 14:00:42 <CM> white_gecko: tip one, paste files in pastebin.ca
Aug 29 14:01:10 <CM> I mean paste output, then the link to it here :)
Aug 29 14:02:07 <CM> white_gecko: Have you done a "make update ; make setup"?
Aug 29 14:02:08 <white_gecko> ok
Aug 29 14:02:18 <white_gecko> make setup yes
Aug 29 14:02:22 <white_gecko> make update no
Aug 29 14:02:29 <white_gecko> I'll do a make update
Aug 29 14:02:49 <CM> Several people have built it today, so it should work
Aug 29 14:10:01 <fgau> white_gecko: NOTE: build 200708290857: completed
Aug 29 14:17:59 <white_gecko> i get again an error
Aug 29 14:18:27 <yoyo> hi all
Aug 29 14:18:27 <white_gecko> is there anywhere a logfile i can paste to a oastebin?
Aug 29 14:18:31 <white_gecko> hi
Aug 29 14:19:35 <yoyo> it is true about moving neo from gtk+ to qt?
Aug 29 14:21:50 <white_gecko> so here are the last 29 lines of the output http://paste.debian.net/35689
Aug 29 14:21:58 <milo_> how to escape the text in libgsmtool shell mode when sending sms with: ss=01234,'foo bar body' ?
Aug 29 14:22:49 <xkr47> you seen this ? re: atheros  http://linux.slashdot.org/linux/07/08/29/0241234.shtml
Aug 29 14:22:55 <riot> how fast should the microsd-write-access be through the phone's usb?
Aug 29 14:22:58 <CM> yoyo: I'm sure qt qill work on the Neo some time. The enlightmens libraries too
Aug 29 14:23:40 <yoyo> CM: I'm asking about base of openmoko (pim)
Aug 29 14:24:00 <kristian-m> riot there is no usb-host support right now (as roh told me)
Aug 29 14:24:11 <CM> yoyo: No, I don't think that will change to qt
Aug 29 14:24:23 <yoyo> uff
Aug 29 14:25:42 <CM> white_gecko: Sorry, don't know about that error. (Just a user myself)
Aug 29 14:26:27 <CM> white_gecko: Have you tried to run without a paralell build?
Aug 29 14:28:01 <white_gecko> hm
Aug 29 14:28:23 <white_gecko> you mean without that 
Aug 29 14:28:23 <white_gecko> PARALLEL_MAKE = "-j 4"
Aug 29 14:28:23 <white_gecko> BB_NUMBER_THREADS = "4"
Aug 29 14:28:24 <white_gecko> ?
Aug 29 14:28:54 <CM> white_gecko: Yes. Some people have complained that it only worked with -j 1
Aug 29 14:29:13 <white_gecko> hm
Aug 29 14:29:32 * FuzzyCat did
Aug 29 14:29:38 <white_gecko> and the BB_NUMBER_THREADS = "4" or "2" or "1" ?
Aug 29 14:29:41 <FuzzyCat> 1
Aug 29 14:29:47 <white_gecko> ok
Aug 29 14:29:57 <FuzzyCat> basically I started getting corruption
Aug 29 14:30:30 <FuzzyCat> which caused lots of erroring
Aug 29 14:31:13 <CM> FuzzyCat: My guess was that something like that happened to his git checkout of mtd-utils
Aug 29 14:31:55 <FuzzyCat> the other thing to do is: 
Aug 29 14:32:23 <FuzzyCat> cd build ; . ../setup-env ; bitbake -c clean glibc-gconv
Aug 29 14:37:49 <white_gecko> aha
Aug 29 14:38:32 <white_gecko> @ the moment its running  an processing task 1624/4299
Aug 29 14:38:42 <white_gecko> with -j 2
Aug 29 14:39:07 <white_gecko> if this crashes I will try -j 1
Aug 29 14:45:27 <kpanic> hi, with the development version it is possible to transfer mms messages from the phone to gnu/linux? thanks
Aug 29 14:46:58 * xzcvczx loves dfu-util -V
Aug 29 14:47:17 <yoyo> kpanic:you received mms?
Aug 29 14:47:27 <kpanic> yoyo, no, I'm just wondering
Aug 29 14:47:27 <white_gecko> lol
Aug 29 14:47:27 <xzcvczx> lol you beat me to it yoyo
Aug 29 14:47:37 <xzcvczx> kpanic: lol it wont receive mms yet
Aug 29 14:48:00 <yoyo> I have realy big problem to make a call :)
Aug 29 14:48:03 <xkr47> how does the operator know if the phone accepts mms or not ?
Aug 29 14:48:14 <kpanic> xzcvczx, ok :) do you know if the production version will make it?
Aug 29 14:48:27 * xzcvczx wonders how T2 project is going as by Saturday it is meant to be able to make and receive calls and set volume levels for that accordingly
Aug 29 14:48:47 <xzcvczx> kpanic: well if it doesnt by default you can make it do so
Aug 29 14:49:04 <xzcvczx> xkr47: probably with a similar ack to what it does for sms
Aug 29 14:49:19 <xzcvczx> xkr47: which is probably handeled by the gsm chip
Aug 29 14:49:46 <mickey|zzZZzz> stefan_schmidt: alphaone Shoragan : anyone of you have time to rediff the fix-EVIOCGRAB-semantics.patch against 2.6.22.x ?
Aug 29 14:49:48 <xkr47> hmm..
Aug 29 14:50:00 <nox-Hand> What models of phones could one put OpenMoko on?
Aug 29 14:50:23 <xzcvczx> nox-Hand: in a perfect world any that have a touchscreen :P
Aug 29 14:50:24 <white_gecko> you can put it on every phone
Aug 29 14:50:25 <alphaone> mickey|zzZZzz: I can do it.
Aug 29 14:50:34 <white_gecko> ^^^
Aug 29 14:50:37 <alphaone> mickey|zzZZzz: That's in the patches dir already?
Aug 29 14:50:37 <mickey|zzZZzz> alphaone: great, thanks a lot! without it, we get no touchscreen clicks on 2.6.22
Aug 29 14:50:41 <xzcvczx> nox-Hand: thought there are memory requirements for it
Aug 29 14:51:14 <alphaone> mickey|zzZZzz: Ah, that explains it :-)
Aug 29 14:52:18 <nox-Hand> Hahaha
Aug 29 14:52:42 <mickey|zzZZzz> alphaone: oh btw., disabling S3c2410_FB_DEBUG in the defconfig may fix the kernel messages overwriting our logo
Aug 29 14:53:47 <alphaone> mickey|zzZZzz: Okay, I'll try that along with the patch
Aug 29 14:53:54 <mickey|zzZZzz> cool
Aug 29 14:54:21 * mickey|zzZZzz runs to mother-in-law (71th birthday) and afterwards packing suitcases
Aug 29 14:54:55 <xzcvczx> haha sux to be you mickey|zzZZzz :P
Aug 29 14:55:07 <mickey|zzZZzz> no kidding
Aug 29 14:55:10 <xzcvczx> lol
Aug 29 14:55:16 <mickey|zzZZzz> :D
Aug 29 14:55:33 <freak01> lol
Aug 29 14:56:18 <FuzzyCat> roflmao
Aug 29 15:14:26 <folken> yoyo: try libgsm-tool -m shell
Aug 29 15:15:09 <xzcvczx> folken: i would doubt it for mms
Aug 29 15:15:14 <folken> yoyo: then O for power on and then r for register. 
Aug 29 15:15:37 <folken> xzcvczx: i was more refeering to his last comment. 
Aug 29 15:16:07 <xzcvczx> folken: lol sorry i am blind
Aug 29 15:16:08 <folken> aren't mms fetched via http? 
Aug 29 15:16:25 <xzcvczx> gprs thought i would doubt http
Aug 29 15:16:28 <folken> but you get notified somehow. 
Aug 29 15:17:19 <folken> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multimedia_Messaging_Service
Aug 29 15:17:23 <folken> seems to be http
Aug 29 15:18:26 <xzcvczx> wow ok 
Aug 29 15:18:32 * xzcvczx tips his hat to folken
Aug 29 15:18:58 <DPThough1> and notfication maybe WAP push?
Aug 29 15:18:59 <folken> but i wonder how the notification happens. 
Aug 29 15:19:16 <DPThough1> seems reasonable. but wikipedia does not clearify
Aug 29 15:20:22 <DPThough1> oh, wap push is based on sms :)
Aug 29 15:21:02 <DPThough1> comes all down to sms..
Aug 29 15:22:27 <DPThough1> sms does not have to be text. i guess that's the key
Aug 29 15:23:12 <xzcvczx> lol that reminds me of one time my mate was being a pita i was trying to find out whether he was busy at uni and someone said he was in maths and so i asked him that over text (his phone was on silent) and he decided to reply with "maths is all around us in cars etc" so one of my other mates said if you send him a mms with sound in it, it will b loud even if its on silent so i found the most annoying sound clip i had & sent to to him.... 3 mins lat
Aug 29 15:23:40 <cjb_ie> xzcvczx: truncated at "3 mins lat"
Aug 29 15:23:49 <xzcvczx> er i got a very profanity fulled text back
Aug 29 15:23:57 <folken> Lol turns out the standards body 3gpp write its standards in .doc format. :)
Aug 29 15:23:57 <xzcvczx> later*
Aug 29 15:24:13 <xzcvczx> folken: yeah hence why i cbf looking at it
Aug 29 15:25:04 <folken> DPThough1: http://www.3gpp.org/ftp/Specs/archive/23_series/23.140/23140-6e0.zip (MMS) Standard. 
Aug 29 15:25:10 <Writchie> folken: maybe its because 99% of the people in the world are using *.doc
Aug 29 15:25:32 <Writchie> although mine are from open office ;)
Aug 29 15:26:04 <Tronic> Writchie: I thought that everybody uses PDF for specs distribution.
Aug 29 15:26:05 <xzcvczx> Writchie: i see most standards as .txt though
Aug 29 15:26:06 <DPThough1> Writchie: both aren't tools to write big documents like standards. i would argue..
Aug 29 15:26:27 <folken> well my abiword has a lot of issues with the document. 
Aug 29 15:26:30 <Writchie> pdf is used for finals, like the etsi versions
Aug 29 15:26:32 <Tronic> (and many use LaTeX for writing them)
Aug 29 15:27:17 <Writchie> the collaberation features - changes who made them - versioning, etc. is what makes people still use word
Aug 29 15:27:18 <DPThough1> folken: thx. will read it sometime :)
Aug 29 15:27:27 <Writchie> these features are still horribly broken on open office
Aug 29 15:27:34 <DPThough1> ack
Aug 29 15:28:22 <DPThough1> docbook/latex/whatever + any revision control system  sounds like the plan to me
Aug 29 15:28:44 <DPThough1> however, not my problem
Aug 29 15:29:09 <Writchie> unfortunately, you have to use what your collaborators use.
Aug 29 15:29:34 <Writchie> rfc text still works for me ;)
Aug 29 15:29:48 <xzcvczx> in the last week has there been much change in functionality of openmoko?
Aug 29 15:30:05 <DPThough1> i try to imagine how a word documents look like after dozends of people tried to fix the broken layout :)
Aug 29 15:31:03 <Writchie> DPThough1: it actually works as long as no one touched it with open office.
Aug 29 15:31:13 <Writchie> for up to several hundred pages
Aug 29 15:31:26 <FuzzyCat> one company I worked at sent out email copies of salary letters... 
Aug 29 15:31:29 <Writchie> you clean it up after each version
Aug 29 15:31:43 <FuzzyCat> but you could look at the changes...
Aug 29 15:31:48 * hhf423_w yawns
Aug 29 15:31:52 <DPThough1> doooh
Aug 29 15:32:06 <xzcvczx> what happens if you try booting a machine that doesnt have a video card if it doesnt have one onboard?
Aug 29 15:32:23 <cjb_ie> mostly like the bios beeps angrily
Aug 29 15:32:27 <cjb_ie> *most likely
Aug 29 15:32:46 <DPThough1> xzcvczx: yep. depends on the bios settings. Halt on error blah
Aug 29 15:32:58 <FuzzyCat> then it explodes killing everyone in a 5km radius
Aug 29 15:33:00 <hhf423_w> xzcvczx: depending on the bios setup it stops or boots anyway
Aug 29 15:33:22 <xzcvczx> so in other words requires a video card to be able to go into bios to turn off the halt on error :S
Aug 29 15:33:50 <Writchie> yup - unless its a server board with serial port bios which is a bit rare
Aug 29 15:34:27 <xzcvczx> hmmmmm
Aug 29 15:34:31 <xzcvczx> dangit
Aug 29 15:34:46 <FuzzyCat> you don;t have a cheap card laying about?
Aug 29 15:34:58 <FuzzyCat> what sort of geek are you?!!
Aug 29 15:35:13 <DPThough1> xzcvczx: did you already try booting? 
Aug 29 15:35:46 <DPThough1> modern bios are quite relaxed when it comes to legacy device errors
Aug 29 15:35:49 <xzcvczx> DPThough1: havent bought the mobo yet..... just working out whether i will have to buy one with onboard video..... 
Aug 29 15:36:09 <xzcvczx> as i am too skint/stingy to buy a video card for now
Aug 29 15:36:38 <DPThough1> xzcvczx: get a pci card for cheap of nothing
Aug 29 15:37:10 <DPThough1> .oO(That reminds me. My last pci card is gone. I feel helpless...)
Aug 29 15:39:11 <xzcvczx> ;p;
Aug 29 15:39:12 <xzcvczx> lol
Aug 29 15:39:33 <CIA-20> openmoko: 03njp * r2851 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/artwork/themes/openmoko-standard-2/gtk-2.0/ (gtkrc gtktextview gtktreeview treeview/ treeview/header.png): Added textview and (nonworking) treeview header theming
Aug 29 15:40:00 <hhf423_w> hmm, an other day with work on the gui and uboot and no work on gsmd?
Aug 29 15:40:24 <xzcvczx> part of the reason i need a new server is 720GIG aint enuff anymore and i have no sata ports left and i have run out of pci ports only having 1 and i need 2 one for an FXO the other for tv tuner card
Aug 29 15:40:41 <gavin8or> *yawn* who cares about the gui
Aug 29 15:40:48 <hhf423_w> xzcvczx: don't buy a new server
Aug 29 15:40:59 <hhf423_w> xzcvczx: buy a NAS device
Aug 29 15:40:59 <xzcvczx> steal one?
Aug 29 15:41:15 <xzcvczx> lol nah my server is my only linux box
Aug 29 15:42:01 <aloril> (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Shipping_Notes]] [[User:Phlash]] [[Phase_1_Software_Testing]] [[Application_Development_FAQ]] [[User:ThomasWood]] [[Application_Developer]] [[ThomasWood]]
Aug 29 15:42:02 <hhf423_w> I do not run a server to just have more disk space, I just plugged a small NAS device into my network
Aug 29 15:42:25 <hhf423_w> a servers sucks a lot of power, a nas device does not
Aug 29 15:42:41 <xzcvczx> hhf423_w: but what happens when you need 2 pci slots and you only have 1
Aug 29 15:42:51 <FuzzyCat> hot swap!
Aug 29 15:42:58 <xzcvczx> meh i will be replacing 1 computer with another not adding one
Aug 29 15:43:14 * xzcvczx throws the cat in the shower and turns it on
Aug 29 15:43:27 <DPThough1> lol
Aug 29 15:43:33 * cjb_ie doesn't want to know how xzcvczx turns the cat on
Aug 29 15:43:35 * FuzzyCat pees in xzcvczx's bed
Aug 29 15:43:50 <xkr47> you turn on the cat or the shower ?-)
Aug 29 15:43:51 <xzcvczx> lol stfu cjb_ie
Aug 29 15:43:58 <hhf423_w> anything new & cool today?
Aug 29 15:44:01 <XorA> you can run OpenMoko on a NAS :-D
Aug 29 15:44:25 <xzcvczx> hhf423_w: yup its the 30th of august
Aug 29 15:44:26 <CIA-20> openmoko: 03njp * r2852 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/artwork/themes/openmoko-standard-2/gtk-2.0/gtktreeview: * Fixed gtktreeview
Aug 29 15:44:28 <xkr47> or you can run a nas on neo :)
Aug 29 15:44:31 <hhf423_w> XorA: yeah, good idea. as my NAS does not have GSM I would not notice that gsmd does not work
Aug 29 15:45:21 <hhf423_w> xzcvczx: you in .nz or what? its still 29th here
Aug 29 15:45:36 <xzcvczx> hhf423_w: well done
Aug 29 15:46:05 <hhf423_w> is it even the 30th in AU yet?
Aug 29 15:46:07 * xzcvczx gives hhf423_w a vowel
Aug 29 15:46:13 <xzcvczx> most of it i think
Aug 29 15:46:30 <xzcvczx> they are ~2 hrs behind us on the east coast and ~3 on the west
Aug 29 15:46:34 <hhf423_w> I need to visit nz once. So far we only made it to AU
Aug 29 15:46:46 <xzcvczx> lol you made it to crim country
Aug 29 15:46:54 <FuzzyCat> where's that touchscreen patch!
Aug 29 15:46:57 * FuzzyCat slaps people
Aug 29 15:46:58 <hhf423_w> crim?
Aug 29 15:47:11 <FuzzyCat> aussies are all criminals
Aug 29 15:47:17 <FuzzyCat> or at least they were..
Aug 29 15:47:19 <xzcvczx> hhf423_w: it was where they sent all the crims from england many years ago
Aug 29 15:47:23 <FuzzyCat> sent from england
Aug 29 15:47:26 <xzcvczx> FuzzyCat: i say the former
Aug 29 15:47:37 <FuzzyCat> ;)
Aug 29 15:48:01 <FuzzyCat> although the crime could be very minor... 
Aug 29 15:48:43 <xzcvczx> i think it was the closest to hell the english could find
Aug 29 15:49:01 <FuzzyCat> yes.. it's full of australians
Aug 29 15:49:02 <FuzzyCat> :P
Aug 29 15:49:04 <xzcvczx> lol
Aug 29 15:49:07 <hhf423_w> xzcvczx: ah, sure
Aug 29 15:50:48 <hhf423_w> an englishmen travels to .au and when going through the commonwealth questionaire, he asks the stewardess:
Aug 29 15:51:16 <xzcvczx> have you had a criminal conviction? i didnt know i needed one
Aug 29 15:51:22 <hhf423_w> "it says here: have you ever been convicted of a crime. -- say, is that still required?"
Aug 29 15:51:33 <xzcvczx> lol yup
Aug 29 15:51:36 <DPThough1> lol
Aug 29 15:51:54 <cdbot2> * * OM Bug 773 has been created by hozer(AT)hozed.org
Aug 29 15:51:55 <cdbot2> * * Qemu should support -net usb -redir ......
Aug 29 15:51:56 <cdbot2> * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=773
Aug 29 15:51:56 <xzcvczx> if you sent all the criminals to an island went back 50years later what do you think they would say
Aug 29 15:52:11 <cjb_ie> g'day mate :)
Aug 29 15:52:15 <xzcvczx> :)
Aug 29 15:52:19 <hhf423_w> hahahaha
Aug 29 15:52:52 <FuzzyCat> roflmao
Aug 29 15:53:29 * xzcvczx thinks its lucky no aussies are awake in here
Aug 29 15:53:43 <bmidgley> I can use my laptop to type into the OM gui when using x11vnc...
Aug 29 15:53:49 <hhf423_w> xzcvczx: you know that this channel is recorded?
Aug 29 15:54:08 <bmidgley> but the terminal keeps going into a double-character greek input mode :(
Aug 29 15:54:13 <hhf423_w> hahaha
Aug 29 15:54:22 <xzcvczx> hhf423_w:  yeah but none are around here now to complain if they come back later and say thats not nice everyone will be confused
Aug 29 15:55:06 <hhf423_w> xzcvczx: ah, just throw sheep at them :-)
Aug 29 15:55:20 <polz> is mrxvt supposed to support UTF8 ?
Aug 29 15:55:40 <bmidgley> dunno
Aug 29 15:55:53 <cdbot2> * * OM Bug 774 has been created by hozer(AT)hozed.org
Aug 29 15:55:54 <cdbot2> * * qemu mouse/pointer input unreliable
Aug 29 15:55:55 <cdbot2> * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=774
Aug 29 15:57:00 <xzcvczx> LOL we just have to be careful of gambler, BobOfDoo1, hads, Agrajag- waking up
Aug 29 15:57:22 * FuzzyCat tries not to yell at the 'Adding Applicaitons..' thread
Aug 29 15:57:43 <DPThough1> polz: my mrxvt on debian launched without any options does not work with utf8. tested it
Aug 29 15:57:45 <xzcvczx> FuzzyCat: link?
Aug 29 15:57:50 <polz> btw, is it possible to compile openmoko for x86 (and if it is, hooow) ?
Aug 29 15:58:12 <polz> DPThough1: oh, OK, then. I guess I shouldn't use such filenames, anyway :)
Aug 29 15:58:30 <FuzzyCat> http://127.0.0.1/contactgnld.aspx?STORE_ID=1&NAV_CATEGORY_ID=3222&CATEGORY_ID=3250
Aug 29 15:58:41 * FuzzyCat sniggers
Aug 29 15:58:44 <DPThough1> i would consider missing utf8 a bug...
Aug 29 15:59:13 <xzcvczx> FuzzyCat: i get a cannot connect to server :S
Aug 29 15:59:18 <folken> DPThough1: it seems to work via sms. Basically they set a mimetype and have then a more or less plaintext protocol over sms to get an URL from where the mms is then downloaded. 
Aug 29 15:59:50 <FuzzyCat> trey here instead http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/openmoko-devel/2007-August/001369.html
Aug 29 15:59:50 <LordCrimson> Hi. Did somebody play with bt keyboard?
Aug 29 15:59:51 <aloril> LordCrimson: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (and also SH1, SH1_FAQ, Neo1973, Developer_preview and Neo1973_Hardware#GTA01Bv4 pages) (Hopefully these links answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.)
Aug 29 15:59:51 <FuzzyCat> :P
Aug 29 15:59:53 <FuzzyCat> try
Aug 29 16:02:31 * hhf423_w just found a bunch of aussie / kiwi jokes
Aug 29 16:02:37 <xzcvczx> link?
Aug 29 16:02:48 <polz> does anyone here know why using dbus to connect to gsmd might not be a good idea ?
Aug 29 16:02:51 <hhf423_w> Why aren't there any Kiwis on Star Trek? -> They don't work in the future either.
Aug 29 16:02:57 <xzcvczx> lol
Aug 29 16:03:07 <hhf423_w> xzcvczx: http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/archive/index.php/t-59335.html
Aug 29 16:03:43 <hhf423_w> some of those could get you in trouble I believe
Aug 29 16:03:51 <xzcvczx> well the funny thing is we are more advanced than anyone else in the world...... we are already many hours ahead of the germans
Aug 29 16:04:21 <polz> xzcvczx: yeah, but the Japanese are riiiiight behind you 
Aug 29 16:04:27 <don-o> have you seen the photos & 1 video of the GTA02 mobos? http://people.openmoko.org/ninjutsu/?C=M;O=A 
Aug 29 16:04:47 <don-o> the video shows a machine placing components on the mobo. fun to watch.
Aug 29 16:05:00 <polz> don-o: who cares ? Remember when the first p0 phones were built ?
Aug 29 16:05:01 <xzcvczx> lol polz
Aug 29 16:05:28 <don-o> polz: was there cool videos?
Aug 29 16:05:45 <thomasg> hi. what does openembedded want to know when it asks for the CACHE variable? what cache is meant?
Aug 29 16:05:46 <polz> don-o: no, but there were announcements
Aug 29 16:05:56 <don-o> polz: yeah, uh this is much cooler.
Aug 29 16:06:18 <don-o> polz: or are you saying the gta02 is still a long time in coming?
Aug 29 16:06:22 * polz is still bitter for not being able to buy a phone when it was first supposed to come out
Aug 29 16:06:47 <don-o> polz: oh i hear ya man, ive been following the project since january
Aug 29 16:06:49 <polz> don-o: well, they were supposed to start selling gta01 on my birthday, the 11th of March
Aug 29 16:07:03 <FuzzyCat> polz, you still can't buy a phone.
Aug 29 16:07:08 <polz> in the end, they were about 3 months late
Aug 29 16:07:40 <polz> so I'd say it'll be nice if they get them out of the store sometime in early November
Aug 29 16:08:29 <polz> FuzzyCat: well, I've got one lying right beside me...
Aug 29 16:08:44 <polz> FuzzyCat: and I was able to place and receive a call yesterday
Aug 29 16:08:46 <FuzzyCat> no, you have something with a gsm chip in it, not a phone
Aug 29 16:09:04 <polz> as long as you disable the power saving, it kinda seems to work sometimes
Aug 29 16:09:08 <FuzzyCat> I can too.. just that I can't hear anuthing 
Aug 29 16:09:11 <FuzzyCat> anything
Aug 29 16:09:23 <polz> that's weird
Aug 29 16:09:38 <polz> have you updated the firmware ?
Aug 29 16:09:40 <aloril> LordCrimson: I have seen reports at least 2 different bt keyboards working
Aug 29 16:09:49 <FuzzyCat> ... and like many have said  - I'd rather see work on the underlying code than the gui
Aug 29 16:09:56 <FuzzyCat> polz, yes, lots
Aug 29 16:09:56 <xzcvczx> lol gotta love it when someone makes a joke and doesnt even convert the lingo into the country they are talking about'
Aug 29 16:10:36 <polz> hmm... 
Aug 29 16:10:36 <polz> maybe it has something to do with the mixer settings
Aug 29 16:10:36 <polz> FuzzyCat: can you play .mp3s ?
Aug 29 16:10:46 <FuzzyCat> i can play them...
Aug 29 16:11:09 <FuzzyCat> and iirc I can hear them too
Aug 29 16:11:47 <folken> ahh.. new packages. 
Aug 29 16:12:42 <folken> and new kernel 2.6.22
Aug 29 16:12:57 <gambler> gday mate someone need my convict music
Aug 29 16:13:45 <polz> FuzzyCat: I've noticed that the Dialer seems to set some volume settings...
Aug 29 16:13:45 <polz> FuzzyCat: so if I were you, I'd try fiddling with alsamixer while making a call
Aug 29 16:14:12 <xzcvczx> nooooooooooo an aussie woke up
Aug 29 16:14:24 <xzcvczx> we better stop giving the aussies crap
Aug 29 16:14:52 <xzcvczx> gambler: wtf you doing up at this time?
Aug 29 16:15:18 <gambler> coding my gambling library
Aug 29 16:16:56 <xzcvczx> what part of aus are you in?
Aug 29 16:17:23 <gambler> brisbane...near gold coast
Aug 29 16:18:05 <gambler> where u
Aug 29 16:18:08 <xzcvczx> auck
Aug 29 16:18:28 <xzcvczx> how was the eclipse last night from your area?
Aug 29 16:18:47 <gambler> cloudy...so i decided to skip it
Aug 29 16:18:52 <xzcvczx> ah ok
Aug 29 16:19:09 <gambler> how hard is it to find coders in NZ? in aus right now its impossible
Aug 29 16:19:28 <xzcvczx> lol i should move to aus when i graduate then
Aug 29 16:19:46 <gambler> u can come work for me
Aug 29 16:20:11 <xzcvczx> lol
Aug 29 16:20:15 <xzcvczx> what you working on?
Aug 29 16:20:44 <gambler> openmoko
Aug 29 16:21:17 <gambler> u been to linux.conf?
Aug 29 16:21:19 <raynet> i can move to NZ or AU, never been there
Aug 29 16:21:26 <xzcvczx> lol
Aug 29 16:21:38 <raynet> and winter is coming here in finland soon, so it would be really nice :)
Aug 29 16:21:45 <xzcvczx> no visa for you mate
Aug 29 16:21:54 <xzcvczx> gambler: nah
Aug 29 16:22:03 <gambler> raynet: i can hook u up with a visa if u have some skills
Aug 29 16:22:17 <gambler> good surfing beaches here....
Aug 29 16:22:32 <raynet> i am really good at surfing.... the web
Aug 29 16:22:35 <xzcvczx> gambler: i am assuming if its for openmoko its unpaid though isnt it?
Aug 29 16:22:46 <gambler> who works for free
Aug 29 16:22:51 <gambler> not me
Aug 29 16:22:59 <xzcvczx> gambler: i prefer the night skydiving at gold coast
Aug 29 16:24:08 <xzcvczx> gambler: who do you work for if you dont mind me asking?
Aug 29 16:24:56 <gambler> xzcvczx, i run small company 
Aug 29 16:25:04 <xzcvczx> oh nice
Aug 29 16:25:34 <xzcvczx> what are you working on in particular?
Aug 29 16:26:33 <gambler> its complex. mostly r&d related. the founders of the company (my partner and I) have academic background
Aug 29 16:26:52 <xzcvczx> yeah but in openmoko what are you trying to accomplish
Aug 29 16:27:43 <gambler> we are experimenting with a few ideas. like a social networking app that works through the phone.
Aug 29 16:28:02 <FuzzyCat> w00t!
Aug 29 16:28:14 <xzcvczx> using gprs for communication?
Aug 29 16:28:19 <FuzzyCat> i can has builded kitteh images
Aug 29 16:28:45 <xzcvczx> thats the worst engrish i have ever seen FuzzyCat
Aug 29 16:29:02 <woglinde> lol
Aug 29 16:29:12 <woglinde> I can has
Aug 29 16:29:22 <xzcvczx> and builded
Aug 29 16:29:27 <woglinde> thats an insider
Aug 29 16:29:35 <cjb_ie> it's not engrish, it's lolcat, or maybe lolfuzzy
Aug 29 16:29:47 <raynet> eh
Aug 29 16:30:16 <raynet> ah, month is almost over, i can soon begin developing for my neo. i'll be working on experimental UIs, mostly finger ones
Aug 29 16:30:45 <gambler> xzcvczx, short answer no. 
Aug 29 16:30:46 <CM> cjb_ie: http://lolcode.com
Aug 29 16:31:02 <xzcvczx> raynet: nice..... i think a text one with just T9 would be good as i am sure even that would be faster than a qwerty-stylus
Aug 29 16:31:31 <ScaredyCat> OpenMoko-scaredycat-openmoko-devel-image-glibc-P1-August-Snapshot-20070829-fic-gta01.rootfs.jffs2
Aug 29 16:31:48 <ScaredyCat> think I better dance now....
Aug 29 16:31:51 <xzcvczx> gambler: lol fair enuff 
Aug 29 16:32:46 <CM> ScaredyCat: What's in that image? And what kernel should I use to it?
Aug 29 16:32:46 <raynet> xzcvczx: i'll be testing pie menus and radial key inputs with T9 type system
Aug 29 16:33:36 <hozer> bah, too much scrollback ;)
Aug 29 16:33:52 <ScaredyCat> CM: it's a standard image + scummvm as a test
Aug 29 16:34:22 <ScaredyCat> built with my own openmoko-devel-image... 
Aug 29 16:34:28 <hozer> ScaredyCat: did you generate that with mokomakefile?
Aug 29 16:34:31 <hozer> or just rename the file
Aug 29 16:34:35 <ScaredyCat> it;s not uploaded..
Aug 29 16:34:38 <polz> raynet: that sounds pretty useless
Aug 29 16:34:52 <CM> ScaredyCat: Still, nice :-D
Aug 29 16:34:54 <ScaredyCat> I just generated it with bitbake scaredycat-openmoko-devel-image
Aug 29 16:35:08 <hozer> ah, and made your own bitbake files?
Aug 29 16:35:14 <ScaredyCat> yes..
Aug 29 16:35:22 <polz> raynet: I thought the biggest advantage of radial text input was that you could do it without having to look at the screen constantly
Aug 29 16:35:24 <ScaredyCat> that's why it's so wonderful :D
Aug 29 16:35:34 <CM> ScaredyCat: As they talked about in the devel-list?
Aug 29 16:35:34 <woglinde> lol
Aug 29 16:35:50 * CM pokes ScaredyCat and points at the wiki
Aug 29 16:35:56 <xzcvczx> ScaredyCat: lol i figured you would just say you renamed the image off buildhost to scaredycat-openmoko
Aug 29 16:36:22 <raynet> polz: sure, but i'll be doing some tests, need a quick input system for using ssh with my huuuge fingers
Aug 29 16:36:49 <woglinde> raynet bt keyboard?
Aug 29 16:36:54 <xzcvczx> raynet: make sure you put tab in there.... nothing worse than the openmoko keyboard not having a tab key when using the terminal
Aug 29 16:37:02 <ScaredyCat> CM : yah yeh...
Aug 29 16:37:08 <ScaredyCat> xzcvczx: lol
Aug 29 16:37:08 <woglinde> openmoko has tab key
Aug 29 16:37:14 <woglinde> change the keyboard
Aug 29 16:37:18 <hozer> hrrm.. someone ought to work on an openmoko shell
Aug 29 16:37:23 <raynet> xzcvczx: yeah, i know. it will be atleast usable for Irssi
Aug 29 16:37:34 <hozer> integrate command completion in a t-9 like input way
Aug 29 16:37:36 <raynet> xzcvczx: so it must have tab, esc-1..9 etc
Aug 29 16:37:55 <raynet> also it must have quick umlauts like ä ö å
Aug 29 16:38:00 <hozer> heh
Aug 29 16:38:11 <xzcvczx> woglinde: yeah i am meaning with the default keyboard
Aug 29 16:38:27 <xzcvczx> raynet: i dont care about them
Aug 29 16:38:47 <xzcvczx> :P
Aug 29 16:39:01 <raynet> xzcvczx: but i do.. i also need to input kanji/hiragana/katakana etc
Aug 29 16:39:05 <riot> a friend of mine did a study on predictive input systems which know what words usually follow other words. Maybe we should integrate that, too. It's already sort of opensource.
Aug 29 16:39:22 <raynet> riot: just what i am gonna do
Aug 29 16:39:50 <xzcvczx> riot: i see someone typing in rm and it coming up with rm -rf / them getting distracted and hitting enter instead of backspace
Aug 29 16:40:08 <meus> xzcvczx: haha :P
Aug 29 16:41:01 <ewon> predictive text in irc == win
Aug 29 16:41:07 <ewon> predictive text in shell == bad
Aug 29 16:41:09 <ewon> imo
Aug 29 16:41:18 <woglinde> o.O?
Aug 29 16:41:39 <meus> ewon: but is irssi good or bad then?
Aug 29 16:41:55 <xzcvczx> well you jsut need to work out what can be destructive and not allow it in the predictive lineup
Aug 29 16:41:55 <cw666> roh: i have a battery draining very quickly when the device is powered off...  and afaict i did power down the radio before the CPU.  any ideas?
Aug 29 16:42:10 <raynet> predictive text probably wont be that context aware, it will just help to write "real" words and shell commands etc must be written char by char
Aug 29 16:42:32 <woglinde> cw666 powermangement is a huge piece of work and dont work right now
Aug 29 16:43:14 <cw666> woglinde: sure, but right now i'm just a bit lost as to why a powered down device drained the battery; i was under the impression if the radio was off i shouldn't see this
Aug 29 16:43:43 <cw666> raynet: the predictive text in the RAZR is history-aware in the sense it knows about what works you used the most and which ones recently and biases to those
Aug 29 16:44:40 <xzcvczx> cw666: funniest one i had was you couldnt teach it words and it didnt come with any swear words but eventually i used them often enuff for it to remember them
Aug 29 16:44:43 <Aria> And boy is T9 without history annoying.
Aug 29 16:44:53 <Aria> Doubly so with a fixed-size FIFO for added words
Aug 29 16:44:59 <ynezz> cw666: how you know it's powered down? lcd is off?
Aug 29 16:45:07 <woglinde> *g*
Aug 29 16:45:16 <cw666> ynezz: because i powered it down?
Aug 29 16:45:22 <ynezz> how?
Aug 29 16:45:29 <cw666> poweroff from the command line
Aug 29 16:45:34 <ynezz> cool :)
Aug 29 16:46:04 <xzcvczx> cw666: did you echo 0 > gsm?
Aug 29 16:46:10 <xzcvczx> before you poweroff
Aug 29 16:46:31 <xzcvczx> be aware echo 0 > gsm isnt the full command
Aug 29 16:46:36 <cw666> xzcvczx: yes
Aug 29 16:47:17 <xzcvczx> hmm thats a point the radio power control should be symlinked to somewhere much more simple of simplicities sake
Aug 29 16:47:23 <xzcvczx> s/of/for
Aug 29 16:47:47 <ewon> make a wrapper for /sbin/shutdown that kills gsm before calling the real shutdown
Aug 29 16:47:55 <cw666> dunno, i would argue the kernel on shutdown should hook and do that
Aug 29 16:48:03 <cw666> just to be safe
Aug 29 16:48:23 <ynezz> i would check the power consumption using multimeter, just to be sure it just works
Aug 29 16:48:29 <xzcvczx> i am not talking about only during the shutdown though.... also when you want to power up/down from cmd line for testing or something
Aug 29 16:49:01 <xzcvczx> and it would be better to do it in the init scripts rather than in a wrapper
Aug 29 16:49:07 <cw666> ynezz: yeah, i need to get a shim or something to do that... the other thing i see if chgrcur (or whatever) is always non-zero, ususally in the 500-1000 range even after hours of being connected
Aug 29 16:49:25 <cw666> it's not clear when a device should be fully-charged why that would read such a large value
Aug 29 16:49:53 <hozer> what are those units (500-1000)
Aug 29 16:49:58 <ynezz> mA
Aug 29 16:50:07 <ynezz> it's a lot anyway
Aug 29 16:50:12 <hozer> you're kidding .. 1 A?
Aug 29 16:50:19 <hozer> that's not possible from a USB
Aug 29 16:50:26 <ynezz> chgcur is in mA
Aug 29 16:50:57 <hozer> can you somehow verify that with a meter? That seems like there are the wrong units
Aug 29 16:51:04 <cw666> hozer: the value is very noisy (read it ever 1s or so and it changes quite a bit) and is often over 1400 when the battery has been depleted
Aug 29 16:51:12 <cw666> hozer: do it's probably a bad driver or something
Aug 29 16:51:45 <hozer> are you sure it's not counts of an A/D converter ?
Aug 29 16:51:58 <hozer> what reports that number? the PMU?
Aug 29 16:52:12 <xzcvczx> well last i saw was that it was only charging at 40mA
Aug 29 16:52:15 <cw666> hozer: im not sure, people have claimed mA which seems wrong, i would need to check in detail
Aug 29 16:52:19 <xzcvczx> based on a meter
Aug 29 16:52:35 <hozer> yeah... mA has got to be wrong
Aug 29 16:53:09 <xzcvczx> !bug 762
Aug 29 16:53:11 * hozer should make a USB cable with a meter inline
Aug 29 16:53:25 <xzcvczx> i would but my meter got friggin nicked
Aug 29 16:53:25 <woglinde> hozer hehe
Aug 29 16:53:34 <xzcvczx> i need it for a few things at the moment as well
Aug 29 16:53:36 <ynezz> !ombug 762
Aug 29 16:53:38 <cdbot2> * * Bug 762, Status: NEW, Created: Unknown
Aug 29 16:53:38 <cdbot2> * * wally.ritchie(AT)gmail.com: GTA01v4 Only Charges at 40ma
Aug 29 16:53:39 <cdbot2> * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=762
Aug 29 16:53:47 <xzcvczx> thats the one thanks ynezz
Aug 29 16:53:57 <cw666> btw, does anyone know if the RAZR/KRZR chargers could be made to work?
Aug 29 16:54:01 <cw666> those are easy to get and pretty cheap
Aug 29 16:54:34 <gcb77_> I tried my KRZR charger a few days ago, and it didn't work
Aug 29 16:54:41 <xzcvczx> cw666: if its same as usb it probably should do
Aug 29 16:54:57 <cw666> xzcvczx: doesnt for some reason
Aug 29 16:55:21 <xzcvczx> although ipods are stupid.... if you "eject" them in win but leave them plugged in they wont charg
Aug 29 16:55:23 <xzcvczx> charge
Aug 29 16:56:32 <xzcvczx> hmmmm coming up on 5am here :S
Aug 29 16:56:57 <cw666> NZ?
Aug 29 16:57:43 <xzcvczx> yahuh
Aug 29 16:58:03 <ewon> 17:58 here
Aug 29 16:58:09 <xzcvczx> a gmt
Aug 29 16:58:11 <xzcvczx> ?
Aug 29 16:58:13 <ewon> yup.
Aug 29 16:58:16 <cw666> xzcvczx: where abouts?
Aug 29 16:58:17 <ewon> .ie
Aug 29 16:58:25 <xzcvczx> cw666: auckland
Aug 29 16:58:31 <cw666> hah, jafa!
Aug 29 16:59:01 <xzcvczx> jsut another friendly aucklander?
Aug 29 16:59:02 <xzcvczx> :P
Aug 29 16:59:41 <_kryoko_> i'd like to make a representive poll among the users currently idling this channel
Aug 29 16:59:49 <_kryoko_> Do you guys like coffee (yes/no)
Aug 29 16:59:59 <_kryoko_> (like = love)
Aug 29 17:00:11 <xzcvczx> no
Aug 29 17:00:24 <xzcvczx> cant stand the stuff
Aug 29 17:00:28 <meus> cofee++
Aug 29 17:00:35 <cjb_ie> coffee, ugh
Aug 29 17:00:37 <cw666> woglinde: the other issue im not clear about, even if i leave the gsm radio on it seems i should get more than 12 hours out of the battery
Aug 29 17:00:39 <meus> or perhaps spell it right :P
Aug 29 17:00:43 <meus> coffee++
Aug 29 17:00:43 <cw666> otherwise it would be somewhat useless
Aug 29 17:00:45 <hozer> mmmm, coffee
Aug 29 17:00:45 <borg_> YES :)
Aug 29 17:00:53 <xzcvczx> cw666: you will do one day
Aug 29 17:01:07 <xzcvczx> as the bluetooth radio is on as well probabl
Aug 29 17:01:09 <xzcvczx> y
Aug 29 17:01:19 <_kryoko_> :)
Aug 29 17:01:27 <cw666> xzcvczx: again, my RAZR has both GSM and BT and i can get *days* from that
Aug 29 17:01:40 <cw666> so we're doing something different i guess
Aug 29 17:01:47 <woglinde> days?
Aug 29 17:01:53 <xzcvczx> cw666: yea but your razr is a piece of ....
Aug 29 17:01:54 <woglinde> ah
Aug 29 17:01:55 <woglinde> okay
Aug 29 17:02:03 <hozer> how many mah is the RAZR battery
Aug 29 17:02:08 <cw666> woglinde: at least 3, maybe 4
Aug 29 17:02:21 <hozer> and is the razr battery the same size
Aug 29 17:02:21 <woglinde> cw666 yes sorry I was in the false context
Aug 29 17:02:32 <hozer> I mean voltage
Aug 29 17:02:51 <gcb77_> KRZR batt = 880mah 3.7V
Aug 29 17:02:57 <ynezz> ma = adc_to_chg_milliamps(pcf, adc_adcin1, adc_batvolt);
Aug 29 17:03:08 <ynezz> so it should be mA
Aug 29 17:04:02 <bmidgley> so I can get along with only reflashing the kernel and ipkg updates to 2007.2 now?
Aug 29 17:04:34 <hozer> my treo 650 lasts forever, but it has a huge 1800mah battery
Aug 29 17:04:48 <hozer> the neo is 1200 mah, right?
Aug 29 17:04:56 <cw666> hozer: RAZR battery is 3.7V, not sure about mA hour (it doesnt say)
Aug 29 17:05:07 <bmidgley> 1200
Aug 29 17:05:57 <cw666> web sites claim it's 700 mAh for the RAZR, so it's clearly doing pretty well there
Aug 29 17:06:41 <cjb_ie> root vegetables
Aug 29 17:06:44 <cjb_ie> oops, wrong window
Aug 29 17:06:46 <ewon> heh
Aug 29 17:06:51 <drath> hehehe
Aug 29 17:07:01 <xzcvczx> we know his password
Aug 29 17:07:13 <xzcvczx> your root password is not meant to be so simple\
Aug 29 17:07:13 <cjb_ie> xzcvczx: pfft, you use yours as your nick :p
Aug 29 17:07:23 <xzcvczx> lol do i do i 
Aug 29 17:07:38 <xzcvczx> howd you know?
Aug 29 17:08:11 <cjb_ie> what else could that unpronounceable thing be :)
Aug 29 17:08:48 <xzcvczx> lol there have been some interesting pronounciations of it
Aug 29 17:09:11 <cjb_ie> looking over at a qwerty keyboard it's easier to remember if using qwerty
Aug 29 17:09:16 <cjb_ie> but on dvorak... aiee
Aug 29 17:09:30 <xzcvczx> lol
Aug 29 17:09:56 <cjb_ie> x<tab> is my friend
Aug 29 17:10:02 <xzcvczx> its funny how often i use the password qazxswedc yet noone would guess it
Aug 29 17:10:23 <cjb_ie> now try it on dvorak :p
Aug 29 17:10:30 <xzcvczx> wont be very obvious on a non qwerty keyboard
Aug 29 17:10:32 <xzcvczx> lol yeah
Aug 29 17:11:23 <cjb_ie> not that i can talk, some of my passwords are near plaintext but passed through dvorak-qwerty or qwerty-dvorak substitution ciphers
Aug 29 17:11:33 <xzcvczx> lol nice
Aug 29 17:11:42 <cjb_ie> which actually makes them faster to type on qwerty than dvorak
Aug 29 17:12:09 <DPThough1> has anyone used dvorak for coding and the usual computer hacking stuff? I imagine it sucks very much.
Aug 29 17:12:23 <xzcvczx> DPThough1: why would it suck?
Aug 29 17:12:32 <xzcvczx> DPThough1: dvorak is much more efficient
Aug 29 17:12:38 <cjb_ie> me :) it'd suck a lot less if my keys were labelled
Aug 29 17:12:42 <nbd> it probably won't suck less than the german keyboard layout
Aug 29 17:12:58 <DPThough1> considering that the "not half as braindead as drorak" german laout drives me up the wall every time i have to use it
Aug 29 17:13:00 <cjb_ie> the german kezboard lazout :)
Aug 29 17:13:36 <xzcvczx> you should try using a keyboard where the space key doesnt work 2/3rds of the time,..... had to use that once
Aug 29 17:13:44 <nbd> lol
Aug 29 17:14:00 <cjb> DPThough1: most of the people who use dvorak are programmers.
Aug 29 17:14:10 <cjb_ie> xzcvczx: it probably had a sweet spot where hitting it worked 80% of the time :)
Aug 29 17:14:11 <DPThough1> xzcvczx: computer lingo is iptimised for ()[]{};:'"/?\| keys. dvoraks rearranges them. [a-z] is not the issue in coding i would argue
Aug 29 17:14:12 <cjb> possibly s/most/all/ :) so no, it doesn't suck.  it's faster.
Aug 29 17:14:24 <cjb> DPThough1: it rearranges them nicely!
Aug 29 17:14:45 <nbd> i think one of the most stupid aspects of the german keyboard layout is the positioning of <>
Aug 29 17:14:51 <cjb> it's not like you lose access to any of those symbols.  they're just on different keys.
Aug 29 17:14:56 <cjb_ie> nbd: yeah, one shifted, one not.
Aug 29 17:14:59 <DPThough1> nbd: Alt-Gr, say no more...
Aug 29 17:15:06 <nbd> how can it be more unintuitive
Aug 29 17:15:19 <cjb_ie> i must resurrect my custom dvorak that stopped working a couple of ubuntus ago
Aug 29 17:16:18 * DPThough1 has a switchable keyboard with dvorak and qwerty layout printed on the keys
Aug 29 17:16:25 <polz> is a mixer included in openmoko yet ?
Aug 29 17:16:57 <DPThough1> typematrix.com, if anyone is looking for a nerdy space keyboard 
Aug 29 17:17:21 <DPThough1> acces controll included, noone finds the keys :)
Aug 29 17:17:26 <Aria> polz: alsamixer in a terminal is
Aug 29 17:18:40 <bmidgley> hmm it's only the terminal that gets into this weird 2-character greek mode
Aug 29 17:18:43 <xzcvczx> just get one of those $1k keyboards that have a screen on every key then you can have whatever layout you want
Aug 29 17:18:46 <bmidgley> when using my laptop keyboard
Aug 29 17:18:55 <cjb_ie> xzcvczx: i _so_ want an optimus!
Aug 29 17:19:01 <Aria> 'Want.
Aug 29 17:19:17 <DPThought> indeed
Aug 29 17:19:21 <xzcvczx> yeah that the optimus
Aug 29 17:19:37 <xzcvczx> cjb_ie: even for the ridiculous price they expect?
Aug 29 17:19:44 <cjb_ie> xzcvczx: i still _want_ it
Aug 29 17:19:53 <xzcvczx> then go on buy it
Aug 29 17:19:58 <DPThought> optimus for hightlighting SunCompose combis would be soooooo cool
Aug 29 17:20:06 <cjb_ie> i don't want to pay for it though.
Aug 29 17:20:17 <DPThought> or alt-gr for the poor mans umlauts
Aug 29 17:20:26 <xzcvczx> lol so therefore you dont _so_ want it
Aug 29 17:21:01 <cjb_ie> well, how cheap can you get approx 120 oled displays?
Aug 29 17:21:21 <cjb_ie> i'm not sure how much the price can drop
Aug 29 17:22:27 <xzcvczx> cjb_ie: then again when you were paying $200 for a 20gig hdd would you believe that a few years later you would get a 500gig for the same price or less
Aug 29 17:22:40 <DPThought> there is a laser keyboard available that projects your keybard on the table. bad haptic i would guess, but if you could make the layout dynamic... the price is acceptable
Aug 29 17:22:55 <cjb_ie> xzcvczx: i didn't have that kind of money back then :)
Aug 29 17:23:10 * cjb uses a Touchstream, which also doesn't have much tactile feedback.
Aug 29 17:23:14 <DPThought> btw a option for the ne. since it is for mobile use and has bluetooth
Aug 29 17:23:25 <cjb_ie> though i recently boggled at only 90 eur for a 160 gig laptop drive
Aug 29 17:23:29 <DPThought> s/ne/neo/
Aug 29 17:23:29 <apt> DPThought meant: btw a option for the neo. since it is for mobile use and has bluetooth
Aug 29 17:23:46 <cjb_ie> right, foodtime - /me goes *poof*
Aug 29 17:23:58 <xzcvczx> DPThought: yeah but how often when using a phone do you have a table in front of you
Aug 29 17:24:14 <cw666> xzcvczx: i think the cost of hw in NZ is probably a bit lower than in the US sometimes
Aug 29 17:24:23 <xzcvczx> i am not sure whether i could ever get use to one of those laser keyboards anyway i prefer the buttons to mvoe
Aug 29 17:24:30 <xzcvczx> cw666: fat chance
Aug 29 17:24:44 <DPThought> xzcvczx: everytime i want to use it as a mobile computer. ;) You don't need a keboard for phone calls - sure
Aug 29 17:24:53 <cw666> xzcvczx: depends, whenever family or someone asks me about prices here and we compared it seems lower in NZ
Aug 29 17:25:12 <xzcvczx> cw666: are you in california?
Aug 29 17:25:16 <cw666> yes
Aug 29 17:25:22 <xzcvczx> your parents in nz?
Aug 29 17:25:28 <xzcvczx> well family?
Aug 29 17:25:36 <PBeck> hallo
Aug 29 17:25:45 <cw666> xzcvczx: what's left yeah
Aug 29 17:25:58 <DPThought> PBeck: s/Hallo/Hello/ ;)
Aug 29 17:26:18 <xzcvczx> haha you near berkley?
Aug 29 17:26:29 <PBeck> DPThought: /asay => post my message von all channels ... i know evil :>
Aug 29 17:26:36 <PBeck> s/von/on
Aug 29 17:26:52 <cw666> xzcvczx: san francisco, there are other nz's who are closer to berkeley though :-)
Aug 29 17:27:05 <xzcvczx> cw666: yeah my sis is at berkley
Aug 29 17:27:13 <cw666> is she hot?
Aug 29 17:27:18 <PBeck> i am at stuttgart ;>
Aug 29 17:27:25 <xzcvczx> lol 
Aug 29 17:27:30 <xzcvczx> no
Aug 29 17:27:39 <cw666> well, does she have a pulse then?
Aug 29 17:28:01 <xzcvczx> she did when i spoke to her on msn a few hours ago :P
Aug 29 17:30:57 <cw666> ok, this is annoying
Aug 29 17:31:03 <cw666> i can't get the device to power up at all
Aug 29 17:31:15 <cw666> even though it's been connected to USB for almost an hour now
Aug 29 17:31:31 <mmazur> Via direct cable?
Aug 29 17:31:40 <cw666> mmazur: yes
Aug 29 17:31:54 <mmazur> Nothing in between? No additional cables?
Aug 29 17:32:14 <cw666> mmazur: nothing, the same setup i used yesterday and it charged then
Aug 29 17:32:25 <mmazur> Weird.
Aug 29 17:32:49 <_diego_> cw666: the pc see it?
Aug 29 17:32:52 <cw666> _diego_: no
Aug 29 17:32:58 <DPThought> cw666: try disconnectint the cable, remove battery und put in again, power up and pray. As soon as it boots plug it in again. Helps for me sometimes
Aug 29 17:33:45 <DPThought> cw666: the reset somehow tricks the power management in beliving a higher load i thing
Aug 29 17:34:08 <cw666> DPThought: that didnt work
Aug 29 17:38:47 <cw666> i guess i can charge the battery in part externally ... what a pain though
Aug 29 17:40:22 <ScaredyCat> can someone just test out my instructions for building your own images
Aug 29 17:40:53 <polz> ScaredyCat: where are the instructions ?
Aug 29 17:40:56 <ScaredyCat> assuming you've done the steps prior to this link first
Aug 29 17:40:57 <ScaredyCat> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Application_Development_Crash_Course#Creating_your_own_images
Aug 29 17:41:06 <cw666> ok, so suspended w/ GSM on the claim is 115mA ... which would sound about right to drain the battery in 12 hours
Aug 29 17:41:13 <ScaredyCat> I'll be back in about an hour
Aug 29 17:41:39 <cw666> however, no other recent phone has such a meager battery life with GSM on ... so what are they doing differently to get their power so much lower?
Aug 29 17:41:41 <thomasg> mtd-utils-native broken at moment?
Aug 29 17:42:21 <aloril> (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Application_Development_Crash_Course]] [[Manually_using_GPRS]] [[User:Mmontour/HHNotes]]
Aug 29 17:52:53 <Ghiottone> hi all
Aug 29 17:59:41 <nobody96> moin
Aug 29 18:00:39 <cw666> DPThought: my current suspicion right now is that when the device is off and not in fast charge mode that there might be enough draw (gsm on?) to basically prevent the battery from charging much if at all
Aug 29 18:01:01 <cw666> so i'll probably (with the device connected) try and charge it directly to see if i can get it over that 'hump'
Aug 29 18:06:28 <polz> woot !
Aug 29 18:06:41 <polz> I've just finished my first call
Aug 29 18:06:48 <polz> I mean.. my first _unexpected_ call :)
Aug 29 18:07:20 <jeddy3> polz, grats! :)
Aug 29 18:08:00 <polz> can anyone suggest how to at least dampen the echo ?
Aug 29 18:08:26 <polz> Dialer seems to insist on using the call speaker
Aug 29 18:08:55 <polz> so I can't even switch over to the earphones, unless the phone is connected to a PC (so I can run alsamixer)
Aug 29 18:19:42 <thomasg> polz: you can lower the master volume in alsamixer, that helps a bit
Aug 29 18:42:58 * cbrake wonders why Jan Leubbe's same posts keep showing up on planet.openmoko.org ...
Aug 29 18:51:33 <thomasg> does somebody else have problems with mtd-utils-native right now?
Aug 29 18:59:15 <alphaone> Okay, oabi chroot is done. Lets do some mapping with the neo :-)
Aug 29 19:03:01 <cw666> thomasg: i just did a rebuild and saw no errors
Aug 29 19:03:10 <cw666> thomasg: are you seeing run-time or build-time problems?
Aug 29 19:03:16 <jeddy3> alphaone, wait, oabi/mapping...as in gps?
Aug 29 19:05:49 <thomasg> cw666: make[1]: *** No rule to make target `ubiupdatevol.o', needed by `ubiupdatevol'.  Stop.
Aug 29 19:06:00 <thomasg> that seems to be the problem
Aug 29 19:07:54 <thomasg> cw666: and buildtime problems, not runtime
Aug 29 19:08:07 <cw666> thomasg: right, my default build here isn't even building that
Aug 29 19:08:22 <thomasg> I just did a bitbake openmoko-image
Aug 29 19:10:05 <cw666> thomasg: do you have ubiupdatevol.c in your tree?
Aug 29 19:11:19 <thomasg> wait a second
Aug 29 19:11:46 <thomasg> I'm not really sure, but bitbake openmoko-devel-image instead of openmoko-image (it includes openmoko-debug additionally) seems to work
Aug 29 19:12:45 <cw666> thomasg: yeah, i did the later
Aug 29 19:12:54 <cw666> so, im having my modem timeout all the time and gsmd not work
Aug 29 19:13:00 <cw666> i think other have reported this too?
Aug 29 19:13:09 <cw666> any idea on what actually influences this?
Aug 29 19:14:52 <ccube> hi
Aug 29 19:15:04 <ccube> my neo does not ring on incoming call
Aug 29 19:15:14 <ccube> outgoing is working well
Aug 29 19:15:19 <ccube> some ideas?
Aug 29 19:15:38 <ixs> ccube: does it vibrate?
Aug 29 19:16:27 <ccube> no
Aug 29 19:16:49 <ccube> doesnt tell me on the screen that there is a call
Aug 29 19:17:11 <ccube> i also have some boot problems
Aug 29 19:17:23 <ccube> it is hanging when turning on normally
Aug 29 19:17:34 <ccube> jost booting from uboot menu works
Aug 29 19:17:39 <ccube> very strange
Aug 29 19:18:15 <thomasg> ccube: try reflashing via dfu-util, this mostly worked for me in this case
Aug 29 19:19:08 <ccube> perhaps NAND erase?
Aug 29 19:19:38 <thomasg> well, nand erase normally erases the whole nand :)
Aug 29 19:19:46 <ccube> lol
Aug 29 19:19:46 <thomasg> including u-boot
Aug 29 19:19:52 <ixs> nand erase rootfs maybe?
Aug 29 19:19:58 <thomasg> yes, that would work
Aug 29 19:20:09 <ccube> youre right, hehe
Aug 29 19:20:12 <thomasg> nand erase rootfs & nand erase kernel afaik
Aug 29 19:20:51 <ccube> kk
Aug 29 19:20:57 <ccube> but not uboot?
Aug 29 19:21:04 <cw666> no, dont erase that
Aug 29 19:21:07 <ccube> :)
Aug 29 19:21:11 <thomasg> no, you need a debug board then
Aug 29 19:21:19 <ccube> ive got one! :)
Aug 29 19:21:33 <thomasg> ok, than it's no problem
Aug 29 19:21:37 <ccube> yeah
Aug 29 19:21:46 <cw666> certain AT command seem to put the modem in a wedged state
Aug 29 19:21:49 <cw666> is this a known issue?
Aug 29 19:21:55 <ccube> ok
Aug 29 19:22:04 <ccube> yesterday it worked
Aug 29 19:22:09 * ScaredyCat nudges polz
Aug 29 19:25:10 <ccube> which linux are you using for builing?
Aug 29 19:31:18 <cw666> ok, it's definately gsmd doing weirdness at times
Aug 29 19:31:39 <cw666> if i poke the hw directly it more-or-less seems to talk, albeit slowly at times
Aug 29 19:37:25 <ccube> :)
Aug 29 19:39:11 <riot> how can i find out wether the neo is charging? it doesn't turn on, though i just connected the (probably) empty device to my usb..
Aug 29 19:41:04 <ccube> wait an hour or so on
Aug 29 19:41:16 <ccube> your battery is really empty i think
Aug 29 19:41:30 <hateman> hi all
Aug 29 19:41:32 <ccube> hi hateman
Aug 29 19:41:35 <ccube> ;)
Aug 29 19:41:41 <aloril> (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Phase_1_Software_Testing]] [[User:Hhf423]] [[User_talk:Vlad]] [[Translation]] [[Application_Development_Crash_Course]]
Aug 29 19:41:42 <hateman> hi ccube
Aug 29 19:41:44 <riot> the display blinks every now and then...!??
Aug 29 19:42:12 <riot> ccube: yeah, really empty by nothing. The device was _full_ and then powered off for a day and night..
Aug 29 19:42:38 <cw666> ok, im lost here.... i'm looking at the power requirements of other GSM modules and they are values like 17mA average stand-by, 3.5mA in low-power mode
Aug 29 19:42:45 <ccube> also happened to me 
Aug 29 19:43:17 <riot> i hope this is just a software issue
Aug 29 19:43:25 <ccube> riot: take out the battery, wait 5 minutes an then load it for some hours. It will boot then
Aug 29 19:43:47 <cw666> riot: ive seen the same thing, basically the radio can stay powered up and drain the battery to the point where it's a problem to deal with
Aug 29 19:43:57 <cw666> im not so sure it is a sw issue either, not entirely
Aug 29 19:44:51 <ccube> hateman: ma ark download is broken... :(
Aug 29 19:45:02 <ccube> everything from the beginning...
Aug 29 19:45:19 <hateman> ccube: i have no problems :-)
Aug 29 19:45:54 <hateman> ccube:ark-development-suite-2007.1.iso finished
Aug 29 19:45:57 <ccube> hateman: but my speed is higher :P
Aug 29 19:46:10 <hateman> ccube:main iso 50 %
Aug 29 19:46:19 <ccube> hateman: try to install on PS3! :-D
Aug 29 19:46:22 <hateman> ccube: no comment ..
Aug 29 19:46:59 <hateman> ccube: nearly done :-)
Aug 29 19:47:05 <ccube> lol
Aug 29 19:55:44 <borg_> does someone know how i can switch the lcd in the 320x240 mode?
Aug 29 19:55:57 <cjb> xrandr -o left
Aug 29 19:56:04 <cjb> I think holding the power button gives you a UI for that?
Aug 29 19:56:30 <borg_> i dont want switch orientation
Aug 29 19:56:37 <borg_> i want to switch the resolution ;)
Aug 29 19:56:43 <borg_> the wiki says its possible:
Aug 29 19:56:48 <cjb> why do you think you can switch resolution?
Aug 29 19:56:50 <cjb> huh.
Aug 29 19:56:53 <ScaredyCat> wiki wookie
Aug 29 19:57:27 <borg_> The LCD can be switched to a 240*320 stretch mode
Aug 29 19:57:51 <borg_> i just testet mplayer -fps 12 -hardframedrop -pp 0 -vf rotate=1 -fs Rammstein_Sonne_320x240.avi
Aug 29 19:57:55 <borg_> it looks nice
Aug 29 19:57:59 <borg_> but is very small ;)
Aug 29 19:58:42 <ccube> :)
Aug 29 20:01:55 <hateman> does someone know what i have to do to boot from the sd card ?
Aug 29 20:02:17 <CoolCat2012> hi!
Aug 29 20:03:06 <hateman> i mean how to prepare the sd card for booting
Aug 29 20:04:16 <dcordes> hateman: extract your favourite image to sd with ext2 or so and make your bootloader boot it
Aug 29 20:05:02 <hateman> dcordes: thanks i will try it
Aug 29 20:05:02 <ccube> sounds pretty easy. :)
Aug 29 20:05:12 <CoolCat2012> is there any way o simulate openmoko under linux?
Aug 29 20:05:12 <aloril> CoolCat2012: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (and also SH1, SH1_FAQ, Neo1973, Developer_preview and Neo1973_Hardware#GTA01Bv4 pages) (Hopefully these links answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.)
Aug 29 20:05:16 <cw666> dcordes: jffs2 doesnt work?
Aug 29 20:05:24 <cw666> CoolCat2012: qemu, check the wiki
Aug 29 20:05:32 <cw666> CoolCat2012: or build as i386 target
Aug 29 20:06:21 <dcordes> hateman: you can also use jffs2 me thinkink
Aug 29 20:06:47 <ccube> just copy jffs2 to SD?
Aug 29 20:09:05 <borg_>         "GTA01" | "GTA02")                                                    
Aug 29 20:09:05 <borg_>                 ARGS="$ARGS -dpi 285 -screen 480x640 -hide-cursor -root-ppm /usr/share/pixmaps/xsplash.ppm" ;;
Aug 29 20:09:08 <borg_> if i change this
Aug 29 20:09:17 <borg_> it just changes the appearance of X or?
Aug 29 20:09:27 <CoolCat2012> cw666, thanks
Aug 29 20:09:33 <borg_> mmh... i cant find out how to change the resolution
Aug 29 20:09:35 <borg_> damn
Aug 29 20:09:40 <borg_> cant be that hard
Aug 29 20:09:41 <hateman> ccube: no, tried it allready
Aug 29 20:10:08 <CoolCat2012> cw666, is there any qemu image allready that i can use?
Aug 29 20:11:09 <cw666> CoolCat2012: probably somewhere, i personally dont have one to offer at this point in time though
Aug 29 20:11:33 <CoolCat2012> cw666, np. thankz!
Aug 29 20:13:36 <ccube> hateman: :(
Aug 29 20:15:23 <dcordes> ccube: I'm not sure if you can boot loop images with the openmoko bootloader (uboot?)
Aug 29 20:15:44 <borg_> you can
Aug 29 20:15:59 <ccube> borg_: how?
Aug 29 20:16:03 <borg_> there is at least a menu entry
Aug 29 20:16:11 <dcordes> ccube: yes.
Aug 29 20:16:13 <borg_> go into uboot menu
Aug 29 20:16:22 <borg_> and klick on boot from sd ;)
Aug 29 20:16:43 <ccube> yeah, but how to prepare the sdcard?
Aug 29 20:17:11 <dcordes> borg_: is the touchscreen driver loaded in uboot?
Aug 29 20:17:19 <borg_> no
Aug 29 20:17:30 <dcordes> so how do you click it?
Aug 29 20:17:34 <borg_> aux button to go down in the menu
Aug 29 20:17:45 <borg_> and power button du choose
Aug 29 20:17:50 <dcordes> heh nice
Aug 29 20:17:53 <borg_> s/du/to/
Aug 29 20:17:53 <apt> borg_ meant: and power button to choose
Aug 29 20:18:30 <hhf423> re
Aug 29 20:18:53 * dcordes can't wait getting his fic-gta02
Aug 29 20:18:54 <cdbot2> * * OM Bug 775 has been created by hndispatch-hhf423(AT)yahoo.de
Aug 29 20:18:55 <cdbot2> * * bluetooth can not be enabled (kernel 2.6.22.5-moko11 / 20070829)
Aug 29 20:18:56 <cdbot2> * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=775
Aug 29 20:19:09 <hhf423> an other snapshot and no change in gsmd behavior
Aug 29 20:19:11 <borg_> hateman: you first have to partition your sd card
Aug 29 20:19:27 <woglinde> dcordes lol
Aug 29 20:19:53 <borg_> hateman: you can do this on the neo with fdisk
Aug 29 20:20:20 <borg_> the get the rootfs.tar and extract it
Aug 29 20:20:25 <borg_> thats it
Aug 29 20:20:28 <borg_> i think ;)
Aug 29 20:20:58 <borg_> (first umount, than partition)
Aug 29 20:20:59 <hateman> borg_ : thanks i will try it, if it works i will write it to the wiki :-)
Aug 29 20:21:11 <dcordes> woglinde ?
Aug 29 20:21:42 <borg_> hateman: http://wiki.openzaurus.org/HowTos/Root_Filesystem_on_external_media
Aug 29 20:21:55 <borg_> thats a bit more detailed
Aug 29 20:21:58 <borg_> try this
Aug 29 20:23:25 <hateman> borg_: rootfs on sd for dummies :-) thanks
Aug 29 20:23:39 <dcordes> good old oz wiki
Aug 29 20:25:37 <woglinde> dcordes everyone waits for gtav02
Aug 29 20:26:08 <borg_> i dont, i like my gta01 :)
Aug 29 20:26:37 <nbd> is there a known bug with accessing the gsm module on gta01?
Aug 29 20:26:41 <nbd> i don't get any data from it at all
Aug 29 20:26:50 <nbd> and i checked all the things that were listed in the wiki
Aug 29 20:27:08 <hhf423> woglinde: gta02 is two months to go, no?
Aug 29 20:27:10 <dcordes> will october really work?
Aug 29 20:27:27 <borg_> i think they will ship hardware
Aug 29 20:27:29 <borg_> why not?
Aug 29 20:27:31 * hhf423 doubts that gta02 will be there in october in quantities
Aug 29 20:27:37 <borg_> but properbly not for the mass market
Aug 29 20:27:54 * hozer whistles and waits for someone to responde to !bug 774
Aug 29 20:27:59 <dcordes> I thought fic-gta02 was "mass market"?
Aug 29 20:28:16 <hozer> !bug 774
Aug 29 20:28:26 <borg_> yes, but the software is obviously not ready for the mass market
Aug 29 20:28:35 <borg_> and it wont in october
Aug 29 20:28:44 <dcordes> be optimistic.
Aug 29 20:29:16 <borg_> its nearly september and i cant make calls
Aug 29 20:29:24 <dcordes> what?
Aug 29 20:29:27 <borg_> so come on.. ;)
Aug 29 20:30:02 <thomasg> damn, mtd-utils-native still fails :(
Aug 29 20:30:10 <ScaredyCat> !bug #774
Aug 29 20:30:17 <dcordes> borg_:what do you mean, you can not make calls?
Aug 29 20:30:18 * ScaredyCat stabs someone
Aug 29 20:30:26 <ynezz> !ombug 774
Aug 29 20:30:26 <borg_> dcordes: not reliably
Aug 29 20:30:27 <ynezz> :p
Aug 29 20:30:27 <cdbot2> * * Bug 774, Status: NEW, Created: Unknown
Aug 29 20:30:29 <cdbot2> * * hozer(AT)hozed.org: qemu mouse/pointer input unreliable
Aug 29 20:30:30 <cdbot2> * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=774
Aug 29 20:30:38 * hhf423 watches someone to breathe his last breath
Aug 29 20:33:16 * ScaredyCat slaps ynezz with a wet fish
Aug 29 20:33:44 <hhf423> ScaredyCat: don't play with your food!
Aug 29 20:34:04 * hhf423 is bored. needs something to test.
Aug 29 20:34:28 <hozer> hhf423: fix the qemu touchpad rotation! ;)
Aug 29 20:34:49 <ScaredyCat> hhf423: test my 'build you own images' instructions
Aug 29 20:34:52 <bmidgley> wooooo just got a short file to play over a2dp
Aug 29 20:35:07 <ScaredyCat> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Application_Development_Crash_Course#Creating_your_own_images
Aug 29 20:35:12 <bmidgley> cpu kept up
Aug 29 20:35:29 <hhf423> hozer: sorry, I am not really a coder. I can fix a thing in a script or configuration, but thats about it. Or is it written in Fortran?
Aug 29 20:36:12 <hhf423> ScaredyCat: is that where at some point I have to compile for three days?
Aug 29 20:36:38 <ScaredyCat> no, if you've built an image already then it'll take 5 mins
Aug 29 20:36:54 <hhf423> ScaredyCat: not done that
Aug 29 20:37:04 * ScaredyCat slaps hhf423
Aug 29 20:37:26 <bmidgley> heh even decoding mp3 and reencoding sbc is working
Aug 29 20:37:42 <meus> bmidgley: nice!
Aug 29 20:38:29 <bmidgley> madplay uses ~40% of the cpu to decode... aplay then uses <10% to reencode
Aug 29 20:38:46 <bmidgley> ouch
Aug 29 20:39:42 <bmidgley> I'll write it up in wiki
Aug 29 20:39:52 * hhf423 wonders how long his 750MHz AMD system would compile
Aug 29 20:41:17 <ScaredyCat> 13 minutes hhf423 - honest
Aug 29 20:43:27 <dcordes> is it possible to pre-order fic-gta02?
Aug 29 20:43:33 <milo_> how to disable the touchscreen feedback sound?
Aug 29 20:44:16 <hhf423> ScaredyCat: I think I have an electronic monk somewhere who migh believe you
Aug 29 20:45:15 <meus> I copy what dcordes asks :) i want to preorder 2 of them :)
Aug 29 20:45:19 <hhf423> milo_: rename the thouchscreen click files in /usr/share/openmoko/sounds
Aug 29 20:45:32 <hhf423> dcordes: no
Aug 29 20:45:44 <meus> :/
Aug 29 20:45:55 <fgau> milo_: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Boot_sound
Aug 29 20:46:42 <milo_> hhf423: thanks. but does it really stop play them? madplay returns me resourse busy when i run it with the onscreen keyboard
Aug 29 20:47:18 <hhf423> milo_: fgau has the more elegant solution
Aug 29 20:47:42 * hhf423 is boooredd
Aug 29 20:47:53 <fgau> hhf423: oh
Aug 29 20:48:09 <milo_> fgau: thanks :)
Aug 29 20:48:54 <milo_> fgau: any way to unload them after boot?
Aug 29 20:49:25 <Ghiottone> hhf423, did you manage to have SettingsGUI running?
Aug 29 20:51:13 <hhf423> Ghiottone: yes
Aug 29 20:51:19 <hhf423> Ghiottone: cools stuff
Aug 29 20:51:31 <Ghiottone> how did you do it?
Aug 29 20:51:46 <Ghiottone> it keeps saying that it can't find gtk module
Aug 29 20:51:58 <Ghiottone> even though I have installed python-pygtk
Aug 29 20:52:21 <cw666> gah, how do i make the keyboard appear in .2 ?
Aug 29 20:52:27 <cw666> i dont see an icon for it
Aug 29 20:52:41 <ScaredyCat> you hve to run it
Aug 29 20:52:46 <Ghiottone> cw666, launch the input manager
Aug 29 20:52:46 <ScaredyCat> 'input manager'
Aug 29 20:52:54 <hhf423> Ghiottone: oh, you need the -dev packages which are listed
Aug 29 20:53:02 <Ghiottone> oh
Aug 29 20:53:27 <hhf423> Ghiottone: they take a lot of space
Aug 29 20:53:46 <hhf423> Ghiottone: so you may need to move stuff to the mmc
Aug 29 20:54:11 <Ghiottone> I'm installing the packages directly into the sd card
Aug 29 20:58:15 <thomasg> ok, for the log: here's the patch for the mtd-utils-native problem: http://bugs.openembedded.org/attachment.cgi?id=1776
Aug 29 20:58:30 <hhf423> Ghiottone: using -dest?
Aug 29 20:59:22 <Ghiottone> yes
Aug 29 20:59:30 <Ghiottone> ipkg install -d card package
Aug 29 20:59:35 <hhf423> never tried that
Aug 29 20:59:41 <Ghiottone> you need to configure it in ipkg.conf
Aug 29 20:59:56 <Ghiottone> I'm trying to package SettingsGUI with a bb recipe
Aug 29 21:00:10 <hhf423> Ghiottone: ah, good idea
Aug 29 21:00:25 <cw666> Ghiottone: it's running
Aug 29 21:00:42 <Ghiottone> I think I have made good progress last night
Aug 29 21:01:11 <Ghiottone> cw666, if input manager is running there should be its white box at the top of the screen
Aug 29 21:02:16 <Ghiottone> hhf423, where do you think I should put the *.py files?
Aug 29 21:02:26 <hozer> why is input manage a white box?
Aug 29 21:02:39 <white_gecko> hello
Aug 29 21:03:10 <Stephmw> hey TimRiker 
Aug 29 21:03:25 <hhf423> Ghiottone: no idea, really, extra dir for the software in /usr/share ? 
Aug 29 21:03:32 <hhf423> hozer: because
Aug 29 21:03:47 <cw666> Ghiottone: right, it's crashing at times so i have to manually start it
Aug 29 21:04:07 <hhf423> Ghiottone: I read a very good argumentation on where to put which files on a unix system once, but I can not remember a thing
Aug 29 21:04:23 <Ghiottone> hhf423, was it LSB?
Aug 29 21:04:31 <robster> FHS.
Aug 29 21:04:37 <hhf423> dunno
Aug 29 21:04:43 <Ghiottone> cw666, try upgrading. I used it recently and worked fine
Aug 29 21:04:47 <cw666> stupid questions, can the CPU get at the GSM in-call audio data
Aug 29 21:04:52 <cw666> Ghiottone: this was built not long ago
Aug 29 21:05:38 <hhf423> cw666: GSM voice call stream can be accessed, yes, there is a answer in the FAQ
Aug 29 21:05:50 <Ghiottone> cw666, I upgraded it an hour ago. if yours is as recent as this, then I don't have any other suggestion
Aug 29 21:05:55 <hhf423> cw666: by roh, like added this morning or last night
Aug 29 21:06:04 <Ghiottone> does FHS applies to openmoko?
Aug 29 21:06:31 * hhf423 will go to sleep now, waves everyone good night
Aug 29 21:06:32 <cw666> hhf423: thanks, let me check
Aug 29 21:06:48 <borg_> is there allready a bug entry for the crash of X when the terminal is closed?
Aug 29 21:06:54 <Ghiottone> nite hhf423 
Aug 29 21:08:23 <_diego_> Ghiottone: probably
Aug 29 21:09:14 <_diego_> btw, LSB is a superset of FHS
Aug 29 21:09:40 <kristian-m> Ghiottone great, i'd really like that .bb file :-) - if you like i could open an svn next week
Aug 29 21:10:40 <Ghiottone> sure
Aug 29 21:11:07 <Ghiottone> I was thinking about putting SettingsGUI.py in /usr/bin (or a directory in the path)
Aug 29 21:11:16 <Ghiottone> and the rest of .py files in a dir
Aug 29 21:11:24 <Ghiottone> but I'm wondering which one
Aug 29 21:11:37 <milo_> whats the best way to copy huge files to /media/card? getting input/output error with scp
Aug 29 21:11:43 <Ghiottone> I tried /usr/lib/pyhton/SettingsGUI/
Aug 29 21:12:02 <Ghiottone> and changed the imports to import SettingsGUI.<file> but it does not work
Aug 29 21:12:21 <Ghiottone> milo_, there is a bug that has recently been fixed
Aug 29 21:12:55 <SpeedEvil> milo_: do it over GPRS.
Aug 29 21:12:57 <_diego_> Ghiottone, have u installed python on openmoko?
Aug 29 21:13:09 <SpeedEvil> Oh - it's been fixed :)
Aug 29 21:13:09 <jseghers> hi folks
Aug 29 21:13:16 * SpeedEvil thinks he was told that before. 
Aug 29 21:13:21 <SpeedEvil> I need to check that.
Aug 29 21:13:23 <woglinde> speedevi what is fixed?
Aug 29 21:13:39 <jseghers> I seem to now be able to place outgoing calls fine.
Aug 29 21:13:41 <milo_> SpeedEvil: ;D
Aug 29 21:13:52 <SpeedEvil> The write too fast to media/card and lose the card till reboot one
Aug 29 21:13:53 <cdbot2> * * OM Bug 776 has been created by olaf(AT)uni-paderborn.de
Aug 29 21:13:54 <cdbot2> * * X crashes when terminal is closed with power button
Aug 29 21:13:55 <jseghers> But when I receive a call, it kills the dialer
Aug 29 21:13:55 <cdbot2> * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=776
Aug 29 21:14:27 <jseghers> Has anyone seen that? have a fix for it?
Aug 29 21:14:59 <Ghiottone> _diego_, yes
Aug 29 21:15:26 <_diego_> how?
Aug 29 21:15:40 <_diego_> where can i find instruction?
Aug 29 21:16:46 <Ghiottone> _diego_, ipkg install python-core
Aug 29 21:16:47 <hozer> /m elleo
Aug 29 21:17:03 <hozer> bah, gaim is pissing me off
Aug 29 21:17:24 <hozer> someone apparently got linux running on a treo650
Aug 29 21:17:29 <hozer> and built the openmoko dialer
Aug 29 21:17:34 <borg_> Ghiottone: what is SettingsGUI?
Aug 29 21:17:58 <Ghiottone> borg_, http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/SettingsGUI
Aug 29 21:18:27 <borg_> nice :)
Aug 29 21:18:37 <hads> xzcvczx: I'm not an aussie :)
Aug 29 21:20:52 <borg_> ipkg: extract_archive: /usr/lib/python2.5/plat-linux2/: No space left on device
Aug 29 21:20:56 <borg_> arg
Aug 29 21:20:58 <borg_> :)
Aug 29 21:21:33 <Ghiottone> I installed it on the media card
Aug 29 21:21:38 <Ghiottone> to save space
Aug 29 21:21:48 <borg_> how can i do it?
Aug 29 21:22:15 <Ghiottone> I formatted it ext2fs
Aug 29 21:22:32 <Ghiottone> then configured ipkg.conf
Aug 29 21:22:48 <Ghiottone> by adding a card target
Aug 29 21:22:58 <Ghiottone> then ipkg install -d card python-core
Aug 29 21:23:05 <borg_> ah nice
Aug 29 21:23:10 <borg_> :)
Aug 29 21:23:23 <kristian-m> Ghiottone okay, lets find the best way to do this - we need the files in site-packages and we don't want a depandency on distutils... hmmm
Aug 29 21:23:27 <borg_> dest card /media/card/ 
Aug 29 21:23:30 <borg_> like this?
Aug 29 21:23:54 <Ghiottone> I added a subdir (/media/card/root)
Aug 29 21:24:01 <Ghiottone> don't know which is best way
Aug 29 21:24:26 <Ghiottone> kristian-m, distutils? what does it provide?
Aug 29 21:25:53 <kristian-m> Ghiottone it's a way to install python applications - using a setup.py file
Aug 29 21:26:40 <kristian-m> Ghiottone i've not done this before, but i guess we would just have to change the searchpath for modules...
Aug 29 21:27:17 <Ghiottone> what is the default searchpath
Aug 29 21:27:20 <Ghiottone> ?
Aug 29 21:28:32 <_diego_> u can use some env variables: PYTHONPATH PYTHONHOME
Aug 29 21:29:21 <_diego_> usually is /usr/lib/python2.x
Aug 29 21:30:38 <borg_> Ghiottone: works :)))
Aug 29 21:30:56 <riot> aah, it lives again.
Aug 29 21:32:17 <Ghiottone> borg_, :)
Aug 29 21:32:36 <Ghiottone> putting the .py files in /usr/lib/python2.5 make it work
Aug 29 21:33:12 <Ghiottone> but now two questions. How do I know during install that python dir is that one? And is there a way to place them into a subdir?
Aug 29 21:33:17 <_diego_> btw, the preferred way, is using distutils :)
Aug 29 21:33:47 <_diego_> because python interpreter know where they have to be
Aug 29 21:34:26 <Ghiottone> is there a way to ask python that information?
Aug 29 21:34:28 <polz> argh
Aug 29 21:34:51 <_diego_> http://docs.python.org/dist/dist.html
Aug 29 21:35:03 <polz> what do I have to do in order for neod to recognize taps and drags as signals to reset the powersave timer ?
Aug 29 21:35:52 <Ghiottone> _diego_, great! but I'll need a bit of time to read it
Aug 29 21:36:29 <_diego_> eventually u can use:
Aug 29 21:36:31 <_diego_> import sys
Aug 29 21:36:35 <_diego_> print sys.path
Aug 29 21:36:49 <_diego_> but it's worse than reading the link above ^^
Aug 29 21:36:55 <kristian-m> Ghiottone i'll do something like sys.path += ["/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/Settings-GUI-0.5/"] in the next version
Aug 29 21:37:09 <kristian-m> _diego_ thx, I'll read that too
Aug 29 21:37:19 <hads> .append()
Aug 29 21:38:03 <_diego_> btw, u don't have to change the path variables if u put modules in the right place
Aug 29 21:38:20 <hads> Indeed
Aug 29 21:38:33 <Ghiottone> kristian-m, ok. I'm adjusting the bb recipe with recently found dependencies and paths and then I'll make it on a website
Aug 29 21:39:08 <Ghiottone> kristian-m, oh. I had to change the first line to point to /usr/bin/python instead of /bin/python
Aug 29 21:39:26 <kristian-m> Ghiottone okay, thanks
Aug 29 21:42:21 <aloril> (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Application_Development_Crash_Course]] [[User_talk:Zeroping]] [[Manually_using_Bluetooth]] [[User:Hhf423]] [[Wishlist:Speech_synthesis]] [[Phase_1_Software_Testing]]
Aug 29 21:42:32 <gcb77_> When I use "ipkg -d location" on dev packages I get errors about not being able to create sym links... is anyone else seeing that?
Aug 29 21:43:28 <borg_>   File "SettingsGUI.py", line 23, in <module>
Aug 29 21:43:28 <borg_>     import gtk
Aug 29 21:43:28 <borg_> ImportError: No module named gtk
Aug 29 21:43:29 <borg_> mh
Aug 29 21:43:31 <borg_> :(
Aug 29 21:43:52 <borg_> i copied it to /usr/lib/python2.5/
Aug 29 21:44:36 <Ghiottone> gcb77_, probably cause the card is a FAT fs
Aug 29 21:45:02 <gcb77_> that's a problem?
Aug 29 21:45:13 <borg_> gcb77_: no symlinks on fat
Aug 29 21:45:18 <Ghiottone> gcb77_, FAT does not support symlinks
Aug 29 21:45:20 <borg_> or have you ever seen symlinks in dos? ;)
Aug 29 21:45:32 <gcb77_> Oh, wait.  I was thinking ext2
Aug 29 21:45:48 <gcb77_> Most links work, its only specific files that give problems
Aug 29 21:46:09 * rwhitby adds code to MokoMakefile to wipe the disks of those people who were insulting aussies overnight ...
Aug 29 21:47:53 <cw666> ok, there is bad echo ... is that an artifact of the hw using the speakers?
Aug 29 21:48:24 <cw666> i notice other phones what have a speaker ability dont seem nearly as bad, im wonder how they prevent that, some sort of feedback perhaps on the microphone gain?
Aug 29 21:49:23 <borg_> cw666: i dont know, but i can confirm that behaviour
Aug 29 21:49:41 <borg_> i hope we can filter this somehow
Aug 29 21:50:35 <cw666> it might also be in part due to the physical design/construction of the device
Aug 29 21:50:50 <_diego_> usually cell have something to cancel echo
Aug 29 21:50:57 <polz> I remember someone on the list mentioning that the fact that the microphone is in a hole was supposed to remedy the problem with echo
Aug 29 21:51:10 <polz> obviously it does not.
Aug 29 21:51:13 <_diego_> echo is a well known problem in telephony
Aug 29 21:51:38 <polz> but what you can do is use your earphones when you're talking
Aug 29 21:51:53 <cw666> polz: sorta makes the device pointless if that becomes a requirement
Aug 29 21:51:54 <polz> ofcourse, without a mixer, you'll have to ssh into the phone and use alsamixer
Aug 29 21:52:45 <polz> cw666: well, I also intend to use it as a music player, so the workaround doesn't really make the phone useless for me
Aug 29 21:53:03 <polz> cw666: using the external mike should also help...
Aug 29 21:53:23 <polz> the only problem there is that I haven't figured out how exactly one can do that
Aug 29 21:53:29 <Ghiottone> the package should be here http://aiurlano.netsons.org/OpenMoko/settingsgui_0.4-r0_armv4t.ipk
Aug 29 21:53:30 <cw666> polz: it's a hell of a bulky music player
Aug 29 21:53:31 <polz> I mean use the mike
Aug 29 21:53:53 <polz> cw666: the last portable music player I had used casettes
Aug 29 21:54:09 <polz> cw666: so... it doesn't seem _that_ bulky to me :)
Aug 29 21:54:48 <Ghiottone> the recipe is ath http://aiurlano.netsons.org/OpenMoko/settingsgui.bb.tar.gz
Aug 29 21:55:06 <SpeedEvil> Some tests last night indicated that 7-8 hours mp3 life is easy
Aug 29 21:55:18 <SpeedEvil> 100Mhz and lowered battery voltage.
Aug 29 21:55:24 <cw666> SpeedEvil: w/ gsm off right?
Aug 29 21:55:25 <SpeedEvil> 100Mhz and lowered CPU core voltage.
Aug 29 21:55:34 <cw666> SpeedEvil: how are you changing the CPU speed and voltage?
Aug 29 21:55:43 <SpeedEvil> u-boot, and echo
Aug 29 21:55:48 <SpeedEvil> nothing dynamic.
Aug 29 21:56:24 <SpeedEvil> Interestingly, the CPU seems to work down to 1.2V or so - but not ethernet or sound.
Aug 29 21:56:32 <cw666> SpeedEvil: i guess i should have asked differently ... is there a wiki page on doing this?
Aug 29 21:56:58 <SpeedEvil> It's not safe - you can as easily fry your neo permenantly
Aug 29 21:57:14 <SpeedEvil> the [[bootloader]] page lists how to set speed
Aug 29 21:57:18 <cw666> SpeedEvil: im ok with that, ill send it to WillItBlend then and get another one
Aug 29 21:57:36 <Fatal> :)
Aug 29 21:57:55 <cw666> im actually serious :-)  if i fry it i might as well do that
Aug 29 21:58:02 <kristian-m> Ghiottone _diego_ is right, we can just create .../site-package/Settings-GUI/ and python should automatically add it to the modules search path
Aug 29 21:58:10 <cw666> or add it to the list of laptops and old drivers im going to thermite
Aug 29 21:59:38 <SpeedEvil> cw666: look at [[kernel]] and [[Neo1973 power managment]]
Aug 29 21:59:56 <SpeedEvil> the voltage* settings
Aug 29 22:00:01 <cw666> SpeedEvil: btw, i seem to have the device discharge quickly here
Aug 29 22:00:16 <cw666> i have a logging script as suggested somewhere on the wiki, and the output seems plausible to some extent
Aug 29 22:00:21 <SpeedEvil> also you want to look at the CPU and assorted other datasheets to do this safely.
Aug 29 22:00:28 <SpeedEvil> what output?
Aug 29 22:00:39 <cw666> /media/card/power/* log output
Aug 29 22:00:53 <SpeedEvil> you mean the discharge curve?
Aug 29 22:00:55 <cw666> there is a tar file to help debug why some devices use a lot of power, which this one apparently does
Aug 29 22:01:05 <cw666> well, it's just values, i could plot them certainly
Aug 29 22:01:11 <SpeedEvil> oh - right.
Aug 29 22:01:13 <SpeedEvil> Not seen.
Aug 29 22:01:21 <Ghiottone> kristian-m, oh I see. Let me hack the recipe again
Aug 29 22:01:22 <cw666> sorry, im being vague for lack of knowing the right reference in the wiki
Aug 29 22:01:31 <SpeedEvil> I'm approacking it from the bottom up.
Aug 29 22:01:55 <cw666> im thinking i might end up doing that myself here, throw away the bulk of the sw and work from the ground up and see what is going on
Aug 29 22:02:06 <xzcvczx> damnit DDR2 isnt compatible with DDR :(
Aug 29 22:02:06 <cw666> i need to make a shim between the battery and the phone to measure the draw there
Aug 29 22:02:29 <cw666> xzcvczx: nope, fairly different in some ways, ddr3 and ddr4 are also different
Aug 29 22:02:42 <xzcvczx> 3 & 4?
Aug 29 22:03:53 <cw666> xzcvczx: not common in desktop/server space (yet)
Aug 29 22:04:01 <cw666> some video hardware uses them though
Aug 29 22:04:09 <cw666> actually, i think for video the ddr4 is something a bit special again
Aug 29 22:04:33 <SpeedEvil> cw666: done that - any measurements you want? I may recall them.
Aug 29 22:04:37 <cb22> remember gddr != ddr
Aug 29 22:04:58 <SpeedEvil> cw666: do you have copper foil tape?
Aug 29 22:05:05 <cw666> SpeedEvil: im not sure why my battery goes flat in 12 hours or so w/ the CPU is off
Aug 29 22:05:15 <cw666> even with gsm, gps and bt on it should last longer
Aug 29 22:05:19 <cw666> w/ just gsm on it should last a LOT longer
Aug 29 22:05:29 <SpeedEvil> Unfortunately.
Aug 29 22:05:33 <cw666> SpeedEvil: copper foil tape? not on me, there is some at work
Aug 29 22:05:55 <SpeedEvil> It looks like the GSM modem off only saves some 1/2 of the standby power.
Aug 29 22:06:13 <cw666> SpeedEvil: so you see about 115mA draw?
Aug 29 22:06:14 <SpeedEvil> Indicating a 4 or so day battery life, with only the modem on.
Aug 29 22:06:25 <cw666> SpeedEvil: oh, 4 days would be okish
Aug 29 22:06:36 <cw666> looking at similar modules they are 17mA idle
Aug 29 22:06:41 <SpeedEvil> No - 'off' is around 30mA with modem on, and 15mA with it off.
Aug 29 22:06:43 <cw666> the calypso here seems a lot higher
Aug 29 22:06:58 <cw666> SpeedEvil: 15mA with it off? what is using the other 15mA?
Aug 29 22:07:13 <SpeedEvil> Dunno, not investigated in depth
Aug 29 22:07:13 <cw666> ddr refresh should be lower than that i would thing
Aug 29 22:07:20 <cw666> (self refresh)
Aug 29 22:07:24 <SpeedEvil> it's sdr
Aug 29 22:07:36 <SpeedEvil> and that should be well under a milliamp
Aug 29 22:07:40 <Ghiottone> anyone knows how to put an application into the application's list?
Aug 29 22:08:06 <cw666> SpeedEvil: bt is pretty low, that wouldnt account for that
Aug 29 22:08:20 <cw666> SpeedEvil: gps might, did you check if that was on?
Aug 29 22:08:23 <SpeedEvil> BT is normally off. And can't wake the CPU anyway
Aug 29 22:08:27 <SpeedEvil> GPS was off.
Aug 29 22:08:40 <SpeedEvil> I suspect the audio chips not shut down properly.
Aug 29 22:10:00 <SpeedEvil> cw666 : take one 3mm strip of the copper tape backing. Apply two 2mm strips of copper tape to each side. Connect ends to wires. Tape to battery, so that it folds over the edge vertically.
Aug 29 22:10:10 <SpeedEvil> works for me.
Aug 29 22:10:12 <cw666> SpeedEvil: LM4857 maybe?
Aug 29 22:10:41 <Maledictus> which file in qemu-neo1973 is the touchscreen?
Aug 29 22:11:21 * Stephmw wonders if there are any diy intervalometer plans on the web... starts googling
Aug 29 22:20:53 <cdbot2> * * OM Bug 777 has been created by d.r.newman(AT)qub.ac.uk
Aug 29 22:20:54 <cdbot2> * * ssh into Neo doesn't work in 29 Aug. 2007 build
Aug 29 22:20:55 <cdbot2> * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=777
Aug 29 22:23:38 <polz> I've already asked this:
Aug 29 22:24:02 <polz> what do I have to do for the taps to reset the power saving timer ?
Aug 29 22:34:38 <Ghiottone> kristian-m, I have added the urls for package and bb recipe in my user page: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/User:Alessandro
Aug 29 22:41:48 <quinton> what's a tracked alias?
Aug 29 22:42:34 <cw666> anyone got gprs working with t-mobile?
Aug 29 22:42:43 <cw666> i have a pppd session up but address negotiation isn't working as expected
Aug 29 22:44:04 <SpeedEvil> I've done t-mobile-uk
Aug 29 22:44:48 <SpeedEvil> add the 'debug' option, and start syslodg
Aug 29 22:46:27 <cw666> SpeedEvil: i have the pppd session up, but i dont get a remote address
Aug 29 22:46:35 <anrp> D:?
Aug 29 22:46:39 <cw666> so i have no idea what i can/could ping to test ip connectivity
Aug 29 22:46:39 <anrp> pastebin log
Aug 29 22:47:52 <SpeedEvil> 216.239.59.99
Aug 29 22:47:57 <SpeedEvil> one of googles many boxes
Aug 29 22:48:05 <SpeedEvil> you need to setup /etc/resolv.conf
Aug 29 22:48:23 <SpeedEvil> nameserver 1.2.3.4
Aug 29 22:48:27 <SpeedEvil> or whatever
Aug 29 22:48:32 <cw666> http://stupidest.org/tmp/om/ppplog1.txt
Aug 29 22:48:46 <cw666> SpeedEvil: no, i mean i know i can't see the outside world, i dont have a plan for that
Aug 29 22:48:53 <cw666> but i should be able to see stuff inside the captive portal
Aug 29 22:48:56 <SpeedEvil> route add default ppp0
Aug 29 22:49:01 <SpeedEvil> oh - right
Aug 29 22:49:09 <SpeedEvil> sorry, t-mobile.uk is general IP
Aug 29 22:49:12 <cw666> it's not a routing issue, it's a far-end-is-who-are-you issue
Aug 29 22:49:12 <SpeedEvil> to anywhere
Aug 29 22:49:30 <cw666> SpeedEvil: what do you use for your remote ip?
Aug 29 22:49:44 <cw666> SpeedEvil: leave that out and let it assign one? or you can actually pick a value and they NAT as needed?
Aug 29 22:50:26 <SpeedEvil> leave it out
Aug 29 22:50:33 <SpeedEvil> ppp assigns one to you
Aug 29 22:50:41 <cw666> well, only if it gets one
Aug 29 22:50:42 <cw666> and it's not
Aug 29 22:51:39 <anrp> then it might not actually matter
Aug 29 22:51:57 <anrp> route add -host 72.14.207.99 gw 10.64.64.64 ppp0
Aug 29 22:52:09 <cw666> it's not a routing problem
Aug 29 22:52:18 <anrp> then ping 72.14.207.99
Aug 29 22:52:20 <cw666> there is a default, so that route isn't needed
Aug 29 22:52:26 <cw666> why 72.14.207.99?
Aug 29 22:52:32 <anrp> google.com again D:
Aug 29 22:52:39 <cw666> no, i tried similar
Aug 29 22:52:47 <cw666> i see no packets come back
Aug 29 22:52:48 <cw666> nada
Aug 29 22:53:01 <SpeedEvil> cw666: where did you get the pppd script from?
Aug 29 22:53:01 <anrp> post your peers file?
Aug 29 22:53:04 <anrp> or commandline
Aug 29 22:53:08 <SpeedEvil> do you have the 'noipdefault' option set?
Aug 29 22:53:21 <cw666> yes
Aug 29 22:55:09 <cw666> ok, tested the sim in a RAZR, that can actually get somewhere
Aug 29 22:55:17 <SpeedEvil> Odd. That pppd log seems to say that the IP address should be 10.175.177.170
Aug 29 22:55:48 <cw666> and the local address is
Aug 29 22:55:54 <cw666> but i dont have a suitable REMOTE address
Aug 29 22:56:31 * anrp repokes with question
Aug 29 22:56:46 <SpeedEvil> oh - right.
Aug 29 22:57:27 <cw666> anrp: peers file is fine, or else i wouldn't get a session up
Aug 29 22:57:31 <SpeedEvil> There are only some 24 million possibilities.
Aug 29 22:57:36 <cw666> well, chap details are fine
Aug 29 22:57:52 <Ghiottone> nite all
Aug 29 22:59:25 <anrp> ..
Aug 29 22:59:52 <anrp> can you post it anyway (redact appropriate info if needed)?
Aug 29 23:00:07 <xkr47> handy command to set the clock: ssh root@192.168.0.202 'date '`date +%m%d%H%M%Y.%S`
Aug 29 23:00:12 <xkr47> (run it on the host computer)
Aug 29 23:04:50 <cw666> xkr47: huh? yo make it hard
Aug 29 23:04:54 <cw666> rdate 192.168.0.x
Aug 29 23:04:56 <cw666> works much better
Aug 29 23:05:05 <anrp> if you allow rdate
Aug 29 23:05:11 * anrp ntp
Aug 29 23:05:21 <xkr47> no such command or filename :)
Aug 29 23:05:22 <fish_> re
Aug 29 23:05:41 <xkr47> I haven't set up moko build env yet, only recently got new hard disks to be able to do so :)
Aug 29 23:05:49 <xkr47> so that date command saves my day :)
Aug 29 23:06:23 <cw666> xkr47: rdate is part of busybox, chances are you have it
Aug 29 23:06:43 <xkr47> right you are
Aug 29 23:08:06 <cw666> i'm *always* right; get it tattooed on yourself so you dont forget
Aug 29 23:08:22 <anrp> ...
Aug 29 23:10:36 <cw666> anyhow, i reboot w/ a different sim and i can't even get gsm stable
Aug 29 23:10:37 <cw666> sigh
Aug 29 23:12:15 <quinton> i'm not having any luck getting gsm to work =/
Aug 29 23:12:42 <quinton> is there a way to check if it can at least see the simcard?
Aug 29 23:12:55 <jseghers> quinton: have you added the gsmd stop / gsmd start to your session file?
Aug 29 23:13:03 <CIA-20> openmoko: 03alphaone * r2853 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/artwork/themes/openmoko-standard-2/matchbox/theme.xml: 
Aug 29 23:13:03 <CIA-20> openmoko: 30-08-2007 Daniel Willmann <daniel@totalueberwachung.de>
Aug 29 23:13:03 <CIA-20> openmoko:  theme.xml: Reduce titlefont font size
Aug 29 23:14:01 <quinton> jseghers, session file?  i have done that before trying the manual way and the libgsmd-tool way
Aug 29 23:15:09 <jseghers> quinton: /etc/matchbox/session is a script that runs when you start the xsession.
Aug 29 23:15:27 <quinton> er, except i didn't start it before doing it the manual way
Aug 29 23:15:31 <cw666> anrp: sigh, i can't even get the connect script working reliably after a reboot now
Aug 29 23:15:51 <jseghers> toss /etc/init.d/gsmd stop and /etc/init.d/gsmd start near the top of the session file.
Aug 29 23:16:21 <jseghers> I've gotten it to place calls.
Aug 29 23:16:27 <nbd> same here
Aug 29 23:16:36 <jseghers> And I've gotten the ring and caller ID in the gsm.log
Aug 29 23:16:57 <jseghers> But I'm having a problem with it crashing the dialer when the incoming call occurs.
Aug 29 23:17:19 <jseghers> but I'm also modifying the dialer...so I need to make sure it's not *my* code doing it....
Aug 29 23:17:23 <quinton> jseghers, thanks, i'll try it
Aug 29 23:17:38 <SpeedEvil> cw666: does it 
Aug 29 23:17:39 <SpeedEvil> OK              at+cfun=1
Aug 29 23:17:40 <SpeedEvil> OK              at+cgdcont=1,"ip","general.t-mobile.uk","0.0.0.0",0,0
Aug 29 23:17:40 <SpeedEvil> OK              at+cgatt=1
Aug 29 23:17:40 <SpeedEvil> OK              ATDT*99***1#
Aug 29 23:17:43 <SpeedEvil> or similar?
Aug 29 23:17:52 <SpeedEvil> the first one - turn the modem on - may be optional
Aug 29 23:18:21 <SpeedEvil> the cgatt apparantly should always be needed, and is sometimes not.
Aug 29 23:18:43 <SpeedEvil> For some reason, it did work for some time without for me.
Aug 29 23:19:27 <nbd> jseghers: dialer didn't die when i tested it
Aug 29 23:20:21 <cw666> modem is on, i made a call to make sure it was and nw was happy
Aug 29 23:20:39 <cw666> SpeedEvil: the problem i have *now* (not before) is ERROR from the at+cgdcont=1 ... command
Aug 29 23:20:42 <cw666> im not sure why i get that
Aug 29 23:20:54 <cw666> some sort of confusion wrt to the gsmd/gprs muxing magic?
Aug 29 23:21:29 <SpeedEvil> you can't put my string in verbatim
Aug 29 23:21:44 <SpeedEvil> you eneed to set it up for your provider
Aug 29 23:22:00 <SpeedEvil> I had a problem that mine was missing hte cgatt line - so failed
Aug 29 23:22:08 <SpeedEvil> randomly, after working for a while.
Aug 29 23:22:16 <cw666> right, but was working before ... and now it's not :-)
Aug 29 23:22:26 <cw666> and it's not clear what value(s) will work
Aug 29 23:22:49 <SpeedEvil> As I understand it, the cgd* line sets up the GRPS session parameters
Aug 29 23:22:56 <SpeedEvil> and then cgatt sets one of them
Aug 29 23:23:25 <SpeedEvil> try doing it manually.
Aug 29 23:23:45 <cw666> ok, i have a session now
Aug 29 23:23:55 <cw666> but no IP connectivity
Aug 29 23:24:06 <SpeedEvil> :/
Aug 29 23:26:34 <jseghers> nbd: thanks... at the moment I'm trying to figure out why my change to my local.conf file isn't switching the priority and having it build the original version... I have an overlay that includes a version of the dialer...  I had the BBFILES_PRIORITY variables set to have my version have priority, with prioriities of 5 and 10, 10 being mine.  Then I changed them to 5 and 1 respectively.  Yet, bitbake is still insisting on building my version :(
Aug 29 23:27:53 <cw666> SpeedEvil: could you show me your gprs peer file maybe?
Aug 29 23:30:30 <SpeedEvil> http://www.mauve.plus.com/gprs.tar.gz
Aug 29 23:30:42 <SpeedEvil> t-mobile-uk
Aug 29 23:31:04 <SpeedEvil> Not polished, just works for me
Aug 29 23:31:31 <cw666> ok, something weird is up here
Aug 29 23:31:39 <cw666> SpeedEvil: does it work for you when gsmd is up?
Aug 29 23:31:43 <cw666> or only when it's gone?
Aug 29 23:34:16 <SpeedEvil> missed my startup script that kills it.
Aug 29 23:34:27 <SpeedEvil> stty pass8 /dev/ttySAC0
Aug 29 23:34:37 <SpeedEvil> also may be needed if pppd complains of 7 bit
Aug 29 23:35:28 <cw666> ok, so right now there is no mux support for gprs w/ gsmd then i take it?
Aug 29 23:36:06 <SpeedEvil> no.
Aug 29 23:36:14 <SpeedEvil> Coming soon - apparently.
Aug 29 23:36:28 <SpeedEvil> Laforge is working on it.
Aug 29 23:36:33 <cesarb> SpeedEvil: the same "comming soon" which has been applied to GTA02?
Aug 29 23:37:41 <SpeedEvil> Dunno.
Aug 29 23:38:13 <cw666> SpeedEvil: ok, you chose 160.218.160.218 just randomly?
Aug 29 23:39:23 <SpeedEvil> ?
Aug 29 23:39:26 <SpeedEvil> hangon
Aug 29 23:40:55 <SpeedEvil> I'm not exactly sure where that came from.
Aug 29 23:41:27 <cw666> ok, so for you magically know the far end ... or at least one that workd
Aug 29 23:41:33 <cw666> i wonder if there is some way for me to find it?
Aug 29 23:41:41 <aloril> (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[SettingsGUI]] [[User:Alessandro]] [[Other_OSes]] [[FreeBSD]] [[OpenMoko:Community_Portal]]
Aug 29 23:41:58 <SpeedEvil> I think it's simply picked up from an earlier script.
Aug 29 23:42:10 * SpeedEvil ponders starting the script.
Aug 29 23:42:20 <SpeedEvil> It would cost me 14p.
Aug 29 23:44:04 <SpeedEvil> http://pastebin.com/m162a2c3 is the result of the script
Aug 29 23:44:11 <cesarb> ScaredyCat: I see you are changing the crash course on the wiki... take a look at the talk page, I changed some things on the local overlay setup for 2007.2
Aug 29 23:47:43 <cw666> SpeedEvil: ok, i'll have to ponder this a bit, i wonder if there are some hardcoded magic values i need....
Aug 29 23:47:45 <jseghers> cesarb: I'm working with a local overlay...and your page there was quite useful for getting my dialer to overlay the official one...but then I tried to go back, and changed the BBFILE_PRIORITY_local variable to a smaller number... and it just kept building mine.  The only way I was able to get it to build the official version was to rename my .bb file...
Aug 29 23:47:47 <SpeedEvil> cw666: with it omitted, it also complains it cannot find remote address.
Aug 29 23:47:51 <SpeedEvil> However.
Aug 29 23:47:54 <cw666> anyhow, must get the kid
Aug 29 23:47:58 * cw666 wanders off
Aug 29 23:48:06 <SpeedEvil> If there is a route, and a nameserver file, it still works
Aug 29 23:48:24 <SpeedEvil> ppp0      Link encap:Point-to-Point Protocol  
Aug 29 23:48:25 <SpeedEvil>           inet addr:10.209.85.160  P-t-P:10.64.64.64  Mask:255.255.255.255
Aug 29 23:50:25 * SpeedEvil wonders why GPRS doesn't support VJ.
Aug 29 23:51:18 <cesarb> jseghers: if both files have the same version, the priority should chose which one will be built; I have no idea what happens when the priority and version point in different directions
Aug 29 23:52:08 <cesarb> jseghers: I would simply remove the file (moving it to somewhere else to keep a copy) to get back to the official version, instead of playing with the priorities...
Aug 29 23:53:24 <jseghers> cesarb: it probably has something to do with the versions then...though they seem to be the same.  I'll just do it by renaming then.  Thanks
Aug 29 23:53:28 <wirelessdreamer> has anyone here used a device with a Telit GE864 gprs module in it?
Aug 29 23:53:29 <aloril> wirelessdreamer: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (and also SH1, SH1_FAQ, Neo1973, Developer_preview and Neo1973_Hardware#GTA01Bv4 pages) (Hopefully these links answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.)
Aug 29 23:53:31 <cesarb> SpeedEvil: does the PPP part of GPRS go all the way to the base or just to the modem? if it goes only to the modem, there's no need; if it goes all the way to the base, it probably was not implemented
Aug 29 23:53:59 <cesarb> jseghers: did you see I updated my page on local overlays for 2007.2 a few days ago?
Aug 29 23:54:39 <jseghers> cesarb: yes, I was searching today and ran across it via google :)
Aug 29 23:55:11 <cesarb> google.
Aug 29 23:55:18 <SpeedEvil> I'm not completely sure of the over-the-air protocol.
Aug 29 23:55:19 * cesarb didn't expect it to be that easy to find
Aug 29 23:55:54 <cesarb> (in fact, I didn't even expect it to be already spidered by googlebot)
Aug 29 23:57:19 <jseghers> cesarb: google "bitbake overlay"
Aug 30 00:06:11 <cesarb> jseghers: wow, second hit :P
Aug 30 00:08:53 <Aria> Oh, sweet. bluez 3.16 includes the bluetooth alsa modules and dbus backend. Very swooft.
Aug 30 00:09:50 <happycube> woot
Aug 30 00:28:53 <cdbot2> * * OM Bug 778 has been created by <autobuild-report>
Aug 30 00:28:54 <cdbot2> * * uboot-gta01-1.2.0+svnnow-r14_d4a68f40a0389bb688477acfd23e957cb19443ad_0_2848-do_quilt
Aug 30 00:28:55 <cdbot2> * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=778
Aug 30 00:39:22 <matthew_>  Neo1973 GTA01 on sale at https://direct.openmoko.com <-- no they aren't ;)
Aug 30 00:41:42 <juri_> you can have my neo, when you can pry it from my cold, unemployed fingers. ;)
Aug 30 00:41:50 <jseghers_> matthew: you can still order...it will just be on hold...from what I can read into it...and I've ordered another one since that message was put up
Aug 30 00:58:14 <cesarb> Is anyone else stuck at mtd-utils-native_1.0.0+git.bb?
Aug 30 00:58:32 <cesarb> ./src/ubiupdatevol.c:42:20: error: config.h: No such file or directory
Aug 30 00:58:37 <cesarb> ./src/ubiupdatevol.c:43:20: error: libubi.h: No such file or directory
Aug 30 01:11:50 <arw_> hello
Aug 30 01:17:17 <abraxa_> hellos
Aug 30 01:29:33 <dsilva> is there an ipkg providing sftp-server for openmoko?
Aug 30 01:34:19 <rwhitby> dsilva: why sftp?  most ipkg sites are plain http
Aug 30 01:34:30 <rwhitby> oh, sorry, I misread your question.
Aug 30 01:35:10 <rwhitby> yes, there is an openssh-sftp ipkg
Aug 30 01:35:29 <rwhitby> I believe dropbear will only do scp, not sftp
Aug 30 01:35:42 <dsilva> in the standard repository? ipkg install openssh doesn't find it
Aug 30 01:35:55 <dsilva> yeah, dropbear isn't doing sftp, which fuse sshfs requires
Aug 30 01:36:16 <rwhitby> probably not.  ask for it to be added to task-openmoko-feed.bb
Aug 30 01:36:40 <rwhitby> dsilva: one reason why I think openmoko should use openssh instead of dropbear.
Aug 30 01:36:46 <dsilva> ah you mean there's a source package that i can build with motomakefile then
Aug 30 01:39:26 <dsilva> there's a prebuilt ipkg at http://www.angstrom-distribution.org/repo/?action=details&pnm=openssh-sshd
Aug 30 01:40:07 <dsilva> are armv5te binaries safe to use on the neo?  wouldn't want sshd to die :o
Aug 30 01:42:01 <jseghers_> I'm under the impression it's an ARM v4 processor...
Aug 30 01:42:03 <rwhitby> moving from dropbear to openssh is already a tricky thing.
Aug 30 01:42:35 <rwhitby> dsilva: I'm updating the nslu2-linux.org openmoko feed to include all the openssh packages.
Aug 30 01:42:35 <jseghers_> But I'm sure rwhitby will know better than I :)
Aug 30 01:42:37 <dsilva> jseghers_: yeah, that's why i was wondering
Aug 30 01:42:41 <aloril> (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Manually_using_Bluetooth]]
Aug 30 01:42:55 <dsilva> rwhitby: oh cool
Aug 30 01:42:56 <rwhitby> (by adding them to task-openmoko-feed.bb)
Aug 30 01:43:25 <jseghers_> dsilva: my understanding is that you can typically run a lower arm V on a higher V...but not the other way around.
Aug 30 01:43:26 <dsilva> the repository gets rebuilt from that feed every night or so?
Aug 30 01:44:09 <dsilva> jseghers_: i was hoping that it would degrade nicely, but i guess i shouldn't risk it with something essential like sshd
Aug 30 01:44:52 <rwhitby> you want to do the change-over from dropbear to openshs in a terminal window on the device.
Aug 30 01:45:07 <jseghers_> dsilva: from http://www.writingonyourpalm.net/column020624.htm: While ARM v5 CPUs provide backwards compatability and will run ARM v4 binaries without complaint, it doesn't work the other way around.
Aug 30 01:46:22 <dsilva> jseghers_: hmm ok
Aug 30 01:46:23 <dsilva> jseghers_: thanks
Aug 30 01:46:55 <jseghers_> dsilva: And from ARM's site: ARMv5TE 
Aug 30 01:46:55 <jseghers_> In 1999, the ARMv5TE architecture introduced improvements to the Thumb architecture, along with ARM ‘Enhanced’ DSP instruction set extensions to the ARM ISA.
Aug 30 01:47:21 <dsilva> rwhitby: looking at nslu2-linux.org i don't see anything related to openmoko
Aug 30 01:47:24 <xzcvczx> hmmmm fun time to recompile entire system]
Aug 30 01:47:42 <rwhitby> dsilva: http://ipkg.nslu2-linux.org/feeds/openmoko/
Aug 30 01:47:57 <dsilva> rwhitby: great :) thanks
Aug 30 01:48:31 <rwhitby> the nslu2-linux autobuild runs every 15 minutes (if it's not already building) and does all the nslu2-linux feeds.  I've got it doing openmoko-devel-image and task-openmoko-feed now too.
Aug 30 01:48:49 <dsilva> nice
Aug 30 01:49:10 <dsilva> sounds a lot better than bitbaking it on my thinkpad
Aug 30 01:49:13 <rwhitby> so to get a package added to that feed, you just need to get an OE developer to add the package name to task-openmoko-feed and bump the PR in the .bb file - the rest is automatic
Aug 30 01:49:23 <dsilva> "running task 29 of 391"...
Aug 30 01:50:39 <dsilva> to that feed? i thought that feed was yours?
Aug 30 01:51:15 <dsilva> and that you extend your own task-openmoko-feed.bb
Aug 30 01:51:37 <rwhitby> task-openmoko-feed is the OM-blessed way of determining what should be in the packages feed.
Aug 30 01:52:00 <rwhitby> I believe OM will also be using it for the official feeds.  I'm just getting the same thing going earlier, and in parallel for redundancy.
Aug 30 01:52:16 <rwhitby> (mickey added that .bb file to OE specifically for this purpose)
Aug 30 01:52:23 <rwhitby> ScaredyCat will probably use it too.
Aug 30 01:52:39 <cesarb> rwhitby: hm, if the autobuild runs every 15 minutes, is it stopping with an error at mtd-utils-native, or is it just me?
Aug 30 01:52:53 <rwhitby> cesarb: you can check at logs.nslu2-linux.org
Aug 30 01:52:58 <cesarb> rwhitby: (is there a status page somewhere I can check?)
Aug 30 01:53:01 <cesarb> rwhitby: ok
Aug 30 01:53:31 <rwhitby> http://logs.nslu2-linux.org/buildlogs/autobuild-nudi-last.txt
Aug 30 01:54:29 <rwhitby> (there's lots more than openmoko in the build, so builds can sometimes take much longer than 15 minutes)
Aug 30 01:55:14 <cesarb> rwhitby: hm, it didn't even try to build that
Aug 30 01:55:32 <rwhitby> cesarb: right, it only does incremental builds
Aug 30 01:55:40 <cesarb> rwhitby: perhaps clobbering my build tree yesterday to free the disk space used by outdated revisions of the packages wasn't a good idea
Aug 30 01:56:04 <cesarb> rwhitby: bitbake probably doesn't know that that package will build differently, perhaps because it gets things from git
Aug 30 01:56:14 <rwhitby> if the OM developers are using the PR variable correctly, then there shouldn't be a difference. but they are not.
Aug 30 01:57:03 <cesarb> rwhitby: PR = "r4"
Aug 30 01:57:23 <cesarb> and the SRC_URI has git://git.infradead.org/mtd-utils.git;protocol=git;tag=master
Aug 30 01:59:01 <rwhitby> so it's a floating configuration due to the git repo not having a fixed revision
Aug 30 01:59:12 <rwhitby> hence all bets are off for repeatability of builds
Aug 30 01:59:27 <rwhitby> (from #oe: <CIA-17> rwhitby org.oe.dev * r1d0439f6... / (1 packages/tasks/task-openmoko-feed.bb): task-openmoko-feed: added openssh packages)
Aug 30 02:00:07 <cesarb> rwhitby: hm, so if I use my overlay tree to force it to use a fixed tag for the git checkout...
Aug 30 02:00:15 <bedboi> hi there.
Aug 30 02:02:30 <rwhitby> dsilva: the openssh packages should be up on nslu2-linux within a couple of hours I expect.  It's currently doing the daily build caused by "svnnow" packages.
Aug 30 02:03:14 <dsilva> rwhitby: very cool
Aug 30 02:04:09 <dsilva> rwhitby: two hours for the incremental build, right?
Aug 30 02:04:14 <dsilva> rwhitby: not 2 hrs to rebuild everything
Aug 30 02:04:17 <cesarb> rwhitby: could I use SANE_SRCDATE or some similar mechanism instead?
Aug 30 02:04:39 <rwhitby> cesarb: probably
Aug 30 02:04:44 * rwhitby goes into a meeting
Aug 30 02:10:29 <cesarb> rwhitby: adding it to my overlay tree worked, I changed from master to 2a032bca585e27ceb0f293905718b416bc297ce2
Aug 30 02:10:53 <cesarb> rwhitby: now, where in openembedded should I report this so it will added in some relevant configuration file somewhere?
Aug 30 02:11:50 <dsilva> cesarb: when you blow away chunks of your build tree, is removing the right stamps enough to get bitbake healthy again?
Aug 30 02:13:24 <cesarb> dsilva: I don't know, I always use "make clean-package-<foo>" when I want to blow part of the build tree, or just remove the whole build/tmp when I want to nuke everything
Aug 30 02:13:36 <dsilva> oh ok
Aug 30 02:14:32 <cesarb> great, ANOTHER build failure, this time of the "date wrap" kind
Aug 30 02:15:11 * cesarb is starting to wonder which is the flakiest: openmoko or bitbake
Aug 30 02:16:11 * cesarb uses rwhitby's "force-rebuild" to bash it into shape
Aug 30 02:16:38 <cesarb> dsilva: ...which, btw, is probably the answer you were looking for... "make force-rebuild" removes both the work directory and the corresponding timestamp, so that should be enough
Aug 30 02:17:14 <cesarb> wtf, "find"?
Aug 30 02:17:15 <dsilva> cesarb:  force-rebuild-<package> ?
Aug 30 02:17:55 <cesarb> dsilva: no, look at how it does... force-rebuild is AFAIK to fix the date wraparound issue, and it nukes a build package completely so bitbake will rebuild it if I understand it correctly
Aug 30 02:18:00 <dsilva> cesarb: yeah, it's kind of annoying that it rebuilds a bunch of tools that are already in your userspace
Aug 30 02:18:33 <cesarb> dsilva: that's for reproducibility (sp?), so everyone is using the same set of tools. It's actually a Good Thing.
Aug 30 02:18:52 <dsilva> cesarb: hmm ok, i'll try it tomorrow because for now I absolutely cannot lose the arm gcc cross-compiler in that tree
Aug 30 02:20:13 <cesarb> dsilva: force-rebuild will not lose the cross-compilers, it does not force a full rebuild like clobber does
Aug 30 02:20:26 <cesarb> dsilva: it only forces a full rebuild of the "+svn<date>" packages
Aug 30 02:20:29 <dsilva> cesarb: oh i see
Aug 30 02:20:38 <cesarb> dsilva: which fail a build if you cross the midnight
Aug 30 02:29:28 <cesarb> rwhitby: new patch for mokomakefile, http://pastebin.ca/675395, which changes force-rebuild to not waste several minutes recursing down huge source trees (and it might also be a bit safer in avoiding accidentally erasing what it shouldn't)
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Aug 30 02:59:57 2007