**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Sep 03 02:59:56 2007 Sep 03 03:19:49 hello Sep 03 03:20:22 Hello. Sep 03 03:23:14 moo Sep 03 03:23:34 Moin Sep 03 03:25:15 moon Sep 03 03:26:46 morning Sep 03 03:48:49 anybody know if rwhitby committed his uboot changes? Sep 03 04:13:26 does www.gsmworld.com still give good information about what carriers use which gsm bands? Sep 03 04:16:36 rtyler: nope, been in meetings all day Sep 03 04:39:13 moin Sep 03 05:41:11 rtyler: I can't get uboot-openmoko to build Sep 03 05:55:28 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[OL_%28Office_Lady%29_phone]] [[Vertical_applications]] [[Business:Mobile_photo_frame]] Sep 03 05:57:45 SpeedEvil: ok, i checked... the LM* was off Sep 03 05:57:58 so im not sure what is eating the power now, i need to measure it i guess at the battery Sep 03 06:07:43 http://www.xkcd.com/224/ Sep 03 06:11:07 xkcd rocks Sep 03 06:11:26 juri_: sudo make me a sandwich ;) Sep 03 06:53:23 So, how are people getting on with their Neos? Sep 03 06:56:10 good morning Sep 03 06:57:58 mornin' Sep 03 07:10:55 I finally realized my card was formated with VFAT, and thats why I was getting errors when using ipkg -d card Sep 03 07:21:49 z Sep 03 07:25:37 hi all Sep 03 07:25:45 hi Sep 03 07:28:13 hey daurnimator :) Sep 03 07:29:48 hi cheriff Sep 03 07:30:32 where can I find details on the october to-be-released neo? Sep 03 07:31:28 daurnimator: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 Sep 03 07:34:08 the neo only has ONE microsd slot? Sep 03 07:35:32 daurnimator: yes, and it's underneath the SIM, which is underneath the battery. Sep 03 07:35:50 any plans of more? Sep 03 07:35:57 daurnimator: none published Sep 03 07:35:57 one micro isn't much at all Sep 03 07:36:18 gcb77: how are you linking the apps from the card back? Sep 03 07:40:18 rwhitby: I added the apps bin dir to $PATH Sep 03 07:40:33 and the lib dir to $LD_LIBRARY_PATH Sep 03 07:40:36 nod Sep 03 07:40:45 so you haven't looked at ipkg-link? Sep 03 07:42:12 hm, i'm playing with ecore/evas/edje. i would like to rotate the screen with the xrandr command. what would be the correct options? i had no success with `xrandr --orientation left` ... Sep 03 07:42:54 try xrandr -o 3 Sep 03 07:43:18 mdt: make sure you export DISPLAY if you are using ssh Sep 03 07:43:46 gcb77, shure i did. the screen flashes but orientation is still the same Sep 03 07:44:13 zash_se, maybe ecore does something strange? Sep 03 07:44:46 rwhitby: I'm looking for ipkg-link but I can't find it. Sep 03 07:45:25 and after ecore terminated and i do another `xrand` i get '*** glibc detected *** Xfbdev: free(): invalid pointer: 0x40309000 *** Aborted' from Xfbdev and it terminates... hm. Sep 03 07:45:36 ScaredyCat: ping Sep 03 07:45:47 pong Sep 03 07:46:08 mdt: in qemu, xrandr only works once, but -o 3 changes the orientation Sep 03 07:46:08 I'm going to look in your repo, and add any packages there to task-openmok-feed Sep 03 07:46:24 zash_se, it's not qemu... Sep 03 07:46:57 and in the gui orientation changes worked fine as far as i remember... or am i wrong? Sep 03 07:47:19 mdt: I had that problem once, but it worked again after I restarted Sep 03 07:47:47 rwhitby: at least nano mtpaint ntp kbdd scummvm bluez-hcidump midori ruby openssh gpe-filemanager gpe-timesheet gpe-todo mysql mrxvt tor vnc ntpclient gpe-gallery settingsgui Sep 03 07:48:17 gcb77, strange... restarting X should be the same Sep 03 07:48:31 there are some others that were requested.. Sep 03 07:48:37 scummvm? lol Sep 03 07:48:47 oh yes.. Sep 03 07:49:01 and I have it in my images by default too :D Sep 03 07:49:09 he, how far is scummvm? is it already playable? my girlfriend asks all the time... Sep 03 07:49:21 yes, it works... it's excellent Sep 03 07:49:45 :D Sep 03 07:49:54 its been playable for several years Sep 03 07:49:56 probably a good idea to have a stylus Sep 03 07:50:18 i think he meand on the neo, daurnimator Sep 03 07:50:26 s/meand/means Sep 03 07:50:26 oh//// right Sep 03 07:50:28 would it be posible to run starcraft in wine on the neo? Sep 03 07:50:33 lol Sep 03 07:50:40 zash_se, wrong cpu Sep 03 07:50:44 :( Sep 03 07:50:47 you'll want vista on it next Sep 03 07:51:28 * ScaredyCat is hunting for a suitable upnp client for the neo :D Sep 03 07:51:54 freeciv works ok, had both the server and client running Sep 03 07:52:37 i bet it was fast ;) Sep 03 07:53:15 ScaredyCat: it was not noticeably slow... but I only tried it for a minute or so Sep 03 07:53:35 prboom runs ok.. just input is... interesting :) Sep 03 07:53:51 hehe Sep 03 07:54:02 yes.. how do you move, fire etc Sep 03 07:54:36 well we dont.. its just for demonstration, and watching the pre-recorded demo play is ok enough :) Sep 03 07:54:39 with a bt keyboard? Sep 03 07:54:48 mm Sep 03 07:54:49 shame Sep 03 07:55:06 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Kernel/zh_cn]] Sep 03 07:55:12 mmm Sep 03 07:55:18 I want poweered usb Sep 03 07:55:20 daurnimator, we play it for years... ;) but the neo arrived a month ago and now... Sep 03 07:55:26 might be able to do something with a littly nub tied to your thumb or something (i think the ds had something similar?) Sep 03 07:55:27 or at least a hack for it Sep 03 07:55:38 so that you can plug in low power devices Sep 03 07:55:42 such as keyboards Sep 03 07:56:50 one of these would be nice if it worked http://linitx.com/viewproduct.php?prodid=10779 Sep 03 07:58:02 not sure how you'd make it 'fit' the mini usb port thugh Sep 03 07:58:05 though Sep 03 07:58:19 adapter. Sep 03 07:58:32 standard adaptor Sep 03 07:58:49 you can get mini -> big extender? Sep 03 07:59:01 extender?? Sep 03 07:59:16 well, with a female big end ... Sep 03 07:59:20 yeah Sep 03 07:59:21 oeerr missus! Sep 03 07:59:33 heaps of devices use them Sep 03 07:59:45 * ScaredyCat has nevr seem one.. Sep 03 08:00:06 http://conics.net/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=24&products_id=33 Sep 03 08:00:25 just a page I had in recently visted :P Sep 03 08:00:31 rwhitby: adding task-openmoko-feed to the standard build ? Sep 03 08:00:35 plenty of cheaper sites out there Sep 03 08:00:51 you can find them real cheap on ebay under something like "iriver usb dongle" Sep 03 08:01:26 i wonder if they're using oscommerce :) Sep 03 08:01:28 is the usb port configurable as USB host/client? Sep 03 08:01:37 ScaredyCat: see this diagram: http://conics.net/shp/pda/zaurus-sl-c700/images/host-diag_en.jpg Sep 03 08:01:46 rwhitby: or are we plonking it in a local overlay Sep 03 08:01:52 cept replace the bottom picture of a zaurus with the neo Sep 03 08:01:53 ScaredyCat: buildhost and nslu2-linux both build task-openmoko-feed - it's the definitive definition of what should be in an openmoko packages feed Sep 03 08:02:00 and give the neo powered usb >.< Sep 03 08:02:02 looking at the SOC docs it seems the controller can be put in either mode, but it depends on how things are wired Sep 03 08:02:20 cheriff, yes yes, though last I checked support was lacking in the kernel Sep 03 08:02:30 (and there's no power to the USB in GTA01) Sep 03 08:02:35 ScaredyCat: bitbake openmoko-feed Sep 03 08:02:41 k Sep 03 08:02:56 mjr: not even the minimum non-negotiable amount? Sep 03 08:03:04 cheriff, not even Sep 03 08:03:16 ok. that is understandable Sep 03 08:03:29 ..... Sep 03 08:03:43 other linux devices have had various hacks in kernal modules that let you provide power to the port Sep 03 08:03:49 would that be possible with the neo Sep 03 08:03:55 no Sep 03 08:04:01 or is the pin just completely disconnected Sep 03 08:04:24 there is no 5V anywhere on it Sep 03 08:04:37 and by it, I mean the Neo Sep 03 08:04:53 if there's no 5v, providing external power should be easy - no ? Sep 03 08:05:17 IIRC somebody said at some point that GTA02 will have (some) power to the usb, but don't trust my memory Sep 03 08:06:15 well, it's not hard... Sep 03 08:08:33 rwhitby: task-openmoko-feed doesn't seem to be in non-core-dev build tree Sep 03 08:08:45 ? Sep 03 08:09:00 what is a non-core-dev build tree? Sep 03 08:09:28 gah! Sep 03 08:10:36 alphaone: which of gtk-immodule-* should be added to task-openmoko-feed ? Sep 03 08:12:19 ScaredyCat, my scummvm build fails - do i have to use a special .bb file? Sep 03 08:13:30 rwhitby: nm .. this is why i hate bb ... i can never find stuff. Sep 03 08:13:41 mdt: no.. but you should have a 0.9.1 bb file Sep 03 08:15:33 ScaredyCat, i have... but it fails with a help-message from ccache while 'Looking for C++ compiler...'. Sep 03 08:15:51 ! Sep 03 08:16:05 ? Sep 03 08:16:55 you are doing a : cd build ; . ../setup-env ; bitbake scummvm Sep 03 08:16:57 ? Sep 03 08:17:22 from OMDIR Sep 03 08:17:57 rwhitby: when will the changes appear in oe ? Sep 03 08:18:35 ScaredyCat: as soon as I verify the packages build for me, I will add them to task-openmoko-feed.bb and commit it. Sep 03 08:18:49 there are some there already, so you should be able to build it now Sep 03 08:18:54 ahh ok, and i can update :) Sep 03 08:22:08 doh, ERROR: '/home/moko/openembedded/packages/eds/eds-dbus_svn.bb' failed Sep 03 08:34:52 is there a wiki page which describes how i exclude packages from my mokomakefile-build? Sep 03 08:38:38 edit the .bb file which includes it. and then all bets are off. Sep 03 08:39:02 using BBMASK will just mean that the package which depends on the thing you are masking will fail to build as well. Sep 03 08:43:33 now compiling without webkit.... Sep 03 08:43:52 it takes years to compile webkit and all his dependencies Sep 03 08:57:18 How big is the flash block size on the NEO? Sep 03 08:57:54 erasesize is 0x4000 in /proc/mtd Sep 03 09:00:36 that's 16k, right? Sep 03 09:00:55 so if you have less than that free there is no way to delete Sep 03 09:03:37 jffs should handle it Sep 03 09:04:36 It gets really slow as it shuffles data around? Sep 03 09:05:17 I'm trying to figure out if I really do need to re-flash when the disk gets full Sep 03 09:05:42 you need at least two blocks free to do anything in jffs2 Sep 03 09:06:16 (in my experience with the nslu2 at least) Sep 03 09:06:47 rwhitby: 1 or 2 in my experience also, on zaurus, the most common killing method from user is to fill jffs2 Sep 03 09:07:05 yeah, one if you're lucky. two to be safe. Sep 03 09:07:39 cat jffs2 reserve space for superuser, like ext2? Sep 03 09:07:52 s/cat/can/ Sep 03 09:07:52 gcb77 meant: can jffs2 reserve space for superuser, like ext2? Sep 03 09:36:28 re Sep 03 09:46:19 ScaredyCat: task-openmoko-feed.bb is pushed. it doesn't include scummvm cause it fails to build cleanly. Sep 03 09:49:36 good morning Sep 03 09:51:52 rwhitby: any idea why scummvm does not build? Sep 03 09:53:32 mdt: "| Looking for sdl-config... none found! Sep 03 09:53:33 " Sep 03 09:53:59 don't have the time or inclination to debug it right now Sep 03 09:54:09 rwhitby: thats a different error than here. Sep 03 10:32:28 rwhitby: it builds perfectly here Sep 03 10:32:43 you have the 0.9.1 .bb ? Sep 03 10:34:25 * ScaredyCat pokes MDK Sep 03 10:34:27 erm Sep 03 10:34:43 * ScaredyCat pokes mdt Sep 03 10:41:15 ScaredyCat: yep 0.9.1 Sep 03 10:43:02 mmm... Sep 03 10:46:55 ScaredyCat: do you have an sdl-config in tmp/staging/i686-linux/bin ? Sep 03 10:47:52 yes Sep 03 10:47:58 I don't. Sep 03 10:48:04 :o Sep 03 10:48:11 you shoul Sep 03 10:48:11 d Sep 03 10:48:16 so there must be a missing dependency which you have built which put it there. Sep 03 10:49:01 what does ls -ld tmp/work/*/*sdl* say for you? Sep 03 10:49:16 I only have armv4t-angstrom-linux-gnueabi/libsdl-x11-1.2.9-r2 Sep 03 10:49:57 which matches the DEPENDS of virtual/libsdl in the scummvm bb file Sep 03 10:51:19 smae Sep 03 10:51:22 same Sep 03 10:51:30 no libsdl-native ? Sep 03 10:51:46 no... Sep 03 10:51:47 nohing Sep 03 10:51:55 hi guys! Sep 03 10:51:59 i know it is on the host though Sep 03 10:52:21 so there is no way that a non-native libsdl can put something in tmp/staging/i686-linux/bin Sep 03 10:52:46 i'm wondering about building apps such as python, is there support for widgets and such? Sep 03 10:53:25 (i mean to say building apps *using* python) Sep 03 10:53:35 well, something must, because I've cleared out staging before Sep 03 10:54:23 khaije1: do a search for 'SettingsGUI' on the wiki - as a python example Sep 03 10:54:47 hmm, okay thx ScaredyCat Sep 03 10:55:27 ScaredyCat: after building libsdl-native, now I have sdl-config in tmp/staging/i686-linux/bin Sep 03 10:55:37 so scummvm will probably compile Sep 03 10:55:55 so that sould go in the .bb as a dep too them Sep 03 10:55:57 then Sep 03 10:56:02 yep Sep 03 10:57:25 trying to update my 2007.2 is failing at the webkit stage. looks like some problem linking. i have glibc 2.6 is this likely to be the issue? http://dpaste.com/18479/ Sep 03 10:58:17 openmoko: 03chris * r2898 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-today2/ChangeLog: Add a line-break to the ChangeLog (was over 80 columns) Sep 03 10:58:54 ScaredyCat: i think i can make my question even more specific, i'm wondering if tkinter or wxpython are usable on OM? Sep 03 10:59:22 khaije1: I have no idea, i don;t know anything about python... Sep 03 11:00:02 I guess they should be, but bear in mind all the python stuff adds up to a lot of space... Sep 03 11:00:30 which is probably a good reason for it not to be on the neo :) Sep 03 11:00:36 o ok, im studying it now specificaly to write apps for OM. I can't wait Sep 03 11:00:45 like how much are we talking here? Sep 03 11:00:52 ok... not thouse about C? Sep 03 11:00:57 thought Sep 03 11:01:30 i studied c++ at university but that was a long time ago :-) Sep 03 11:02:17 also as i understand it, python is good for portability and quick prototyping which is usefull for a beginner like me Sep 03 11:03:20 Hi all. Can someone who tried mediaplayer send me his ipkg list_installed ? Sep 03 11:04:00 it tells me that there isn't gstreamer or some modules, but gstreamer is installed. Sep 03 11:10:25 ipkg install gst-meta-audio Sep 03 11:14:07 hi, does OM use webkit as web browser engine? Sep 03 11:14:13 no Sep 03 11:15:11 minimo? Sep 03 11:16:15 no? the feedreader does Sep 03 11:17:31 OM doesn't have wap/web browser yet? Sep 03 11:18:34 OM has near nothing :) Sep 03 11:19:09 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Neo1973:_GTA01Bv4_versus_GTA02_comparison]] [[Application_Development_Crash_Course]] Sep 03 11:33:51 ScaredyCat: scummvm fixed Sep 03 11:33:57 :D Sep 03 11:34:19 there was an error in scummvm.inc - it was looking in the wrong place for sdl-config Sep 03 11:34:42 mickey|train: when does buildhost build the feed? Sep 03 11:35:15 I've just added a whole heap of packages to bring task-openmoko-feed close to the ScaredyCat feed Sep 03 11:39:16 rwhitby: when I'm back in Frankfurt, i can launch it Sep 03 11:39:16 it doesn't get autobuilded Sep 03 11:39:37 mickey|train: what depends on libsexy2 ? Sep 03 11:40:07 rwhitby: midori Sep 03 11:40:17 and where is libsexy2 in OE ? Sep 03 11:41:08 libsexy dir and AFAIK there is no upstream libsexy2 Sep 03 11:41:57 for some reason my rootfs generation is complaining about a missing libsexy2 Sep 03 11:42:36 rwhitby: with age you lose your mojo :-) Sep 03 11:42:41 and I only see libsexy in packages/libsexy, no libsexy2. Sep 03 11:43:12 rwhitby: aha, grep for libsexy2 does not reveal anything Sep 03 11:44:20 libsexy? Sep 03 11:44:22 my god Sep 03 11:44:27 1what genius is behind that? Sep 03 11:44:38 raster: no, libsexy2 :-) Sep 03 11:44:52 should be lib2sexy Sep 03 11:44:57 well v2 of libsexy Sep 03 11:45:23 zecke: seems that openmoko-tasks2 also depends on libsexy2 Sep 03 11:45:35 and openmoko-today2 ... Sep 03 11:45:42 * XorA sings to the tune of Right Said Fred, "Im 2 sexy for my rootfs, to sexy for my rootfs by far" Sep 03 11:45:53 X_x Sep 03 11:46:10 XorA: hehe Sep 03 11:46:27 rootfs by tar :-D Sep 03 11:46:43 isn't that all optional Sep 03 11:46:45 ? Sep 03 11:47:06 let me say that: There is no libsexy2 upstream release :) Sep 03 11:47:53 * rwhitby wonders how Packages in armv4t has packages that depend on libsexy2 then Sep 03 11:48:03 man Sep 03 11:48:06 libsexy Sep 03 11:48:07 thats it Sep 03 11:48:24 midori Sep 03 11:48:27 raster: you're just jealous you didn't think of it ;-) Sep 03 11:48:27 next lib i do is going to go all out on the risquée Sep 03 11:48:30 naming front Sep 03 11:48:40 rwhitby: damn straight i am! Sep 03 11:48:41 :) Sep 03 11:48:54 rwhitby: ah debian renaming? Sep 03 11:49:11 libhamster Depends on libducttape :-D Sep 03 11:49:23 and libgere Sep 03 11:50:09 * rwhitby removed midori from task-openmoko-feed, and starts a full rebuild from scratch. Sep 03 11:50:27 rwhitby: could you take a look at the shlibs file? Sep 03 11:50:37 yep, where does it live? Sep 03 11:51:32 rwhitby: grep ${TMPDIR}/staging/pkgmaps/debian/ for libsexy? Sep 03 11:51:50 that file contains 'libsexy2' Sep 03 11:52:04 rwhitby: thats a directory ;) Sep 03 11:52:18 the 'libsexy' file in that directory contains 'libsexy2' Sep 03 12:03:43 can one strip that library ? pretty please. Sep 03 12:15:53 * * OM Bug 792 has been created by kresp0(AT)yahoo.es Sep 03 12:15:54 * * Security issue @openmoko.com Sep 03 12:15:55 * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=792 Sep 03 12:16:57 "ooops" ? ;) Sep 03 12:17:22 oh oh Sep 03 12:18:49 what data rate is 2G? Sep 03 12:19:27 ScaredyCat: 56kbps apparently Sep 03 12:19:37 eeewww Sep 03 12:21:12 2G = GPRS? Sep 03 12:21:18 i dont know exactly Sep 03 12:22:12 GPRS = 2.5G - apparently Sep 03 12:22:28 :) Sep 03 12:27:16 hi Sep 03 12:27:44 i got it! openmoko runs under qemu Sep 03 12:28:53 but i don't know how to use it Sep 03 12:29:02 mouse does not work Sep 03 12:29:17 i can use space and enter Sep 03 12:29:32 does someone know how to solve this?! Sep 03 12:30:34 elmarb: the screen is rotated 90° Sep 03 12:30:53 zash_se: ? Sep 03 12:31:21 a klick in the top left corner is actualy the bottom left corner Sep 03 12:31:39 aah okay Sep 03 12:31:57 klick the + and then start the terminal Sep 03 12:32:14 and run the calibration-thingy Sep 03 12:32:23 xtscal? Sep 03 12:32:26 or something Sep 03 12:32:38 cjb_ie: EDGE = 2.5G, plain old GSM/GPRS is 2G Sep 03 12:33:02 zash_se: ok i try to Sep 03 12:33:10 DPThought: fair enough - i sit corrected :) Sep 03 12:33:12 elmarb: xtscal Sep 03 12:33:46 zash_se: actually a klick in the top left isn't really a klick in the bottom left corner but something like that Sep 03 12:33:58 i'm beginning to understand ;-) Sep 03 12:34:25 * zash_se is poking around in qemu too Sep 03 12:34:41 cjb_ie: 2.5G does not really exist. Its plain marketing buzzword bullshitting. So you don't actually need to know it ;) Sep 03 12:36:32 zecke: any ideas about that libsexy/libsexy2 problem? What does that shlibs result indicate? Sep 03 12:38:04 rwhitby: I would say it is correct so far, but you don't have any libsexy2*.ipk? Sep 03 12:39:18 for some reason, no. Sep 03 12:39:34 rwhitby: but a libsexy*.ipk? Sep 03 12:39:46 no, not that one either. weird. Sep 03 12:39:56 right Sep 03 12:41:05 * rwhitby tries rebuilding libsexy Sep 03 12:42:37 hmm - now I get a libsexy2 ipk, and I expect the rootfs will now build. Sep 03 12:43:12 zecke: thx for the help. Sep 03 12:43:33 hi Sep 03 12:44:17 rwhitby: so package_write was not called for libsexy... for whatever reason Sep 03 12:44:51 hi yo Sep 03 12:46:43 zash_se: wooow this is difficult Sep 03 12:46:49 i can't get the + Sep 03 12:48:23 can you aproximate where to click to get the +? Sep 03 12:50:09 elmarb: left middle edge? Sep 03 12:51:50 * rwhitby adds ipkg-link to task-openmoko-feed.bb Sep 03 12:52:11 zash_se: yes! Sep 03 12:53:45 zash_se: thank you very much now it works right Sep 03 12:54:02 i wonder if/when the new QT will turn up in openmoko Sep 03 12:54:23 zash_se: now how can i save this configuration?? Sep 03 12:55:34 elmarb: it seems to save directly Sep 03 12:55:53 zash_se: okay thanks Sep 03 13:05:37 * wibbit has itchy feet Sep 03 13:12:26 to nand erase is it "nand erase clean rootfs" or "nand erase rootfs" ive seen both on the wiki? Sep 03 13:13:34 zedstar: i have done nand erase rootfs Sep 03 13:13:38 and it worked ;) Sep 03 13:13:59 ok thanx will give that one a go Sep 03 13:14:48 any had problems from flashing the same rootfs onto the device? i thought only if flashing smaller rootfs would have a problem Sep 03 13:15:32 thats non deterministic ;) Sep 03 13:15:38 i had this too Sep 03 13:15:42 so dont worry ;) Sep 03 13:17:28 ah ok cool Sep 03 13:18:49 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[GUI_Style_Guidelines]] Sep 03 13:21:15 the echoing of my chars is weird in uboot seems to delay one char i type Sep 03 13:22:56 mhh Sep 03 13:23:02 never heard of that ;) Sep 03 13:23:20 lol weird Sep 03 13:25:43 hmm worked when i connected again Sep 03 13:25:55 hello Sep 03 13:26:06 hello white_gecko Sep 03 13:26:28 if just downloaded the qemu neo1973 with openmoko Sep 03 13:26:55 but is there no more calibration for the pointer in 2007.2 Sep 03 13:26:56 ? Sep 03 13:28:09 because i cant click any of the buttons on openmoko Sep 03 13:28:16 white_gecko: i think it is there but it will not be started automatically Sep 03 13:28:33 white_gecko: click in the middle of the left hand edge of the screen Sep 03 13:28:47 then press tab on your keyboard and use the cursor keys to select the terminal app Sep 03 13:29:06 then run xtscal Sep 03 13:29:17 and you will have mouse calibration Sep 03 13:29:18 or ts_calibrate Sep 03 13:29:53 hm Sep 03 13:30:03 il try Sep 03 13:30:17 the thing with tab didn'T work Sep 03 13:30:19 The touchscreen coords are rotated 90 degrees to the screen Sep 03 13:30:51 so to click the middle button on the bottom of the screen you need to click in the middle of the left-hand edge. Sep 03 13:31:09 white_gecko: not sure what to do if qemu isn't feeding your keyboard presses through Sep 03 13:31:21 if u flash a bigger kernel do u need to do a nand erase kernel before? Sep 03 13:31:26 and then either klick more right til you get the terminal Sep 03 13:31:34 smaller Sep 03 13:31:40 i meant Sep 03 13:33:31 or start the terminal with arrows and enter Sep 03 13:34:05 but wit arrows and enter doest work Sep 03 13:34:28 now I'm in contact Sep 03 13:34:35 contacts Sep 03 13:35:04 click att the top left Sep 03 13:35:19 where the title is Sep 03 13:35:28 top-right before calibration? Sep 03 13:38:47 oh i link it is wonderfull Sep 03 13:38:59 i have a terminal runnign now Sep 03 13:42:11 white_gecko: xtscal Sep 03 13:44:16 mickey|train: Thanks. With gst-meta-audio and libspiff it works! Sep 03 13:46:31 ok thankyou Sep 03 13:46:52 it doesn't work but i nead mor pasience for this Sep 03 13:47:00 pacience Sep 03 13:47:16 I don't know Sep 03 13:47:18 cu Sep 03 13:55:11 where is the font-size setting for the terminal Sep 03 14:02:27 okay, ctrl+shift+[+_] Sep 03 14:02:44 i can increase fontsize, but not decreease Sep 03 14:22:16 aha Sep 03 14:22:36 mrxvt +xft Sep 03 14:28:25 Hi Sep 03 14:28:50 Please somebody promise that openmoko will be released before new year :D Sep 03 14:29:05 I promise. Sep 03 14:29:06 With end-user neo :) Sep 03 14:29:14 Thanks ;) Sep 03 14:29:20 n/p Sep 03 14:29:20 I am counting on you :D Sep 03 14:29:29 Have no fear. I never fail. Sep 03 14:29:53 * * OM Bug 793 has been created by kegin7595(AT)yahoo.com.tw Sep 03 14:29:54 * * No package 'matchbox-panel' found Sep 03 14:29:55 * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=793 Sep 03 14:29:58 hm, where can I get the openmoko graphics and what licence are do they have? Sep 03 14:30:23 thomasg_: check the wiki? Sep 03 14:30:34 in svn. creative commons Sep 03 14:30:34 thomasg_: cvs? Sep 03 14:30:50 k, thx Sep 03 14:31:02 or do you mean the logo and stuff? for this we have a dedicated trademark guide on the wiki Sep 03 14:31:04 mickey|ICE79, can I set the CC-variable in the local.conf? Sep 03 14:31:22 I meant the graphics of the gtk-widgets (buttons) and so on Sep 03 14:31:33 thomasg_: you could. but what would you want to achieve? Sep 03 14:31:53 you'd break all the logic re. native / cross packages Sep 03 14:32:01 mickey|ICE79, I want to set CC to gcc -m32 Sep 03 14:32:22 always? Sep 03 14:32:24 yes Sep 03 14:32:25 or just for native packages? Sep 03 14:32:29 hmm Sep 03 14:32:35 hm, native could be enough Sep 03 14:32:42 aha Sep 03 14:32:43 you remeber my amd64 -> i686 problem? Sep 03 14:32:49 yeah Sep 03 14:33:11 as my gcc returns long=8 byte, I want him to return long=4 byte Sep 03 14:33:27 my gcc has multilib support, but somehow it seems that it is not used in openmoko/openembedded Sep 03 14:33:51 in that case i recommend Sep 03 14:34:24 BUILD_CC_ARCH += "-m32" Sep 03 14:34:33 ok, sounds reasonable Sep 03 14:35:20 and check whether this setting gets picked up then Sep 03 14:35:21 ah well Sep 03 14:35:21 not ARCH Sep 03 14:35:24 better try BUILD_CFLAGS Sep 03 14:35:26 compare class/native.bbclass Sep 03 14:35:30 this is where we set CC [and more] for native packages Sep 03 14:36:48 ok, I'll try. thx Sep 03 14:37:08 you're sitting in the ICE at moment? Sep 03 14:37:20 ya Sep 03 14:37:24 gprs? :) Sep 03 14:37:31 yep Sep 03 14:37:34 slow as molasses Sep 03 14:37:38 oh yeah Sep 03 14:37:44 for surfing it's ok, but for ssh it sucks Sep 03 14:38:01 I tried this from nuremberg to munich last month Sep 03 14:39:02 i need a umts phone Sep 03 14:39:02 still using my good 'ole Motorola A780 for gprs Sep 03 14:39:02 EZX platform Sep 03 14:39:14 well, at least I had not a single interruption Sep 03 14:40:45 well, umts in trains is not that good, as there is bad supply (on the most railway lines there is only gsm/gprs/edge available) Sep 03 14:41:04 ok, Kassel now. 80 minutes more and then I'm back in FFM Sep 03 14:41:26 I prefer taking the car :) Sep 03 14:41:46 i'm changing the meaning of hold-aux-for-more-than-one-secon Sep 03 14:42:03 d Sep 03 14:42:03 it'll popup a menu like the power button, but with non-power related options Sep 03 14:42:04 makes the power menu free for powering peripherals Sep 03 14:42:06 BT,GPS,GSM,WIFI,USB Sep 03 14:42:33 sounds good Sep 03 14:44:25 well, i can work during train trips Sep 03 14:44:25 can't do that when I'm driving Sep 03 14:44:48 thats true, but I don't like trains Sep 03 14:45:34 mickey|ICE79, thanks, BUILD_CFLAGS works! Sep 03 14:45:34 yep. and the panel applets won't be there unconditionally, but just when the respective peripherals have power Sep 03 14:45:34 makes it more consistent all-in-all Sep 03 14:45:42 gmp-native builds now Sep 03 14:45:43 cool Sep 03 14:46:04 now I have to fix gcc-cross-initial, but this shouldnt be a such big thing Sep 03 14:46:22 cool. please add a wiki page about that Sep 03 14:46:28 ok, I'll do Sep 03 14:47:42 how can/should I make the wiki link available (I hate wikis for "hiding" all articles if the are not linked on a front page) Sep 03 14:48:16 thanks Sep 03 14:48:25 i can imagine more and more people going x86_64 in the future Sep 03 14:48:30 will save them some headaches Sep 03 14:48:56 yes, especially if efl becomes more popular Sep 03 14:49:02 although only hardcore guys should need to build OE in the future Sep 03 14:49:40 I'll have to take a look at the matchbox-vkeyboard, maybe I can make it use my (coming) edje-vkeyboad-gui Sep 03 14:50:10 thomasg_: i think we have a troubleshooting page do we? Sep 03 14:50:10 or something along the lines Sep 03 14:50:15 * XorA has no problems building on amd64 Sep 03 14:50:23 * CM neither Sep 03 14:50:25 XorA, normal users don't :) Sep 03 14:50:47 do bitbake edje-viewer and you will. I promise. Sep 03 14:50:57 when I load mediaplayer playlist I get "gstreamer error: resource busy or not avaiable". in the playlist the uri is: file:///media/card/02.mp3 Sep 03 14:51:06 ~lart old tracks Sep 03 14:51:06 *shaking* Sep 03 14:51:06 * apt eats old tracks and falls over dead Sep 03 14:51:27 * jeddy3_ just sent a sms :P Sep 03 14:52:03 is there any way to invoke libgsm-tool non-interactively? or any other way to send sms but with libgsm-tool? Sep 03 14:52:35 tholin: that would rock Sep 03 14:52:36 thomasg_: that would rock (edje-vkeyboarD) Sep 03 14:52:36 Tyrael: killall pulseaudio Sep 03 14:52:39 gstreamer and pulse are competing over the alsa device Sep 03 14:52:41 but gstreamer using pulse as backend is too slow on GTA01 Sep 03 14:52:43 jeddy3: congrats Sep 03 14:53:44 i'm afraid not yet. there should be sms support in mokogsmd and then python bindings Sep 03 14:53:47 mickey|ICE79, btw, there seems to be something really wrong with python-setuptools...easy-install puts i686-eggs in site-packages, that can't be correct, right? Sep 03 14:53:53 mickey|ICE79, well, it's not a normal vkeyboard, more an alternative one :) Sep 03 14:53:55 great! Thanks a lot! Sep 03 14:54:42 but all of that is not ready yet Sep 03 14:54:42 uuaaah sha sha sha kk kk ii ng Sep 03 14:54:42 damn these tracks suck Sep 03 14:54:46 my poor harddisk.... Sep 03 14:54:50 jeddy3: well, it's somewhat correct. it's not actually i686 eggs, just the label is wrong Sep 03 14:54:52 patches appreciated :) Sep 03 14:55:00 cross compiling python stuff is a bit tricky Sep 03 14:55:35 at least it works at all Sep 03 14:55:41 mickey|ICE79, ah :)...but still...for example package python-evas does NOT make python aware of evas module Sep 03 14:58:07 * jeddy3_ is heading home Sep 03 14:59:37 hmm i had no problems building, installing, and importing python-efl Sep 03 15:01:19 hi Sep 03 15:01:37 hi Sep 03 15:11:22 * k-s[WORK] is away: almoco Sep 03 15:18:49 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[User:Tyrael]] [[License]] [[Commercial_models]] [[Business:Mobile_photo_frame]] [[Booting_from_SD]] [[Talk:GUI_Style_Guidelines]] Sep 03 15:41:19 /Writchie Sep 03 15:42:49 Are there any plans to implement a sync system to pim apps? Sep 03 15:47:27 yoyo_: that'd be nice Sep 03 15:47:39 but first having decent pim apps will be nice Sep 03 15:48:00 callendar and so on Sep 03 15:49:51 I notice that calls auto-recognise the people on the SIM phonebook (attribtute a name to the number) but nothing shows in the GUI Sep 03 15:50:00 will the contacts GUI support SIM-stored contacts? Sep 03 15:52:13 jeddy3 I implemented a python interface to libgsmd-tool using python-subprocess and threads - you can just take ProcessInterface from SettingsGUI - call ProcessInterface("%s -m shell" % LIBGSM_TOOL) and then use the methods write_to_process() and register_event_handler()... Sep 03 15:52:44 jeddy3 I know it's stupid, but was fun ;-) Sep 03 16:18:29 (script) planet: Stefan Schmidt: Catching up with OpenEZX again http://www.datenfreihafen.org/~stefan/weblog/archives/2007/09/#e2007-09-03T14_15_44.txt Stefan Schmidt: Mobile Developer Days 2007 are over http://www.datenfreihafen.org/~stefan/weblog/archives/2007/09/#e2007-09-03T13_53_16.txt Sep 03 16:23:12 Waahh! /me just used the ballpen on the display - I know this would happen one day. :-/ Sep 03 16:23:32 hmm, seems clean again Sep 03 16:43:00 * k-s[AWAY_WORK] is back. Sep 03 16:43:01 uname -r Sep 03 16:43:05 sry Sep 03 16:43:43 k-s[AWAY_WORK]: who cares? Sep 03 17:00:42 so quiet Sep 03 17:01:29 the gtav02 is scheduled for november right? Sep 03 17:01:33 I toasted one of my moko batteries last night waiting for 2007.2 to boot Sep 03 17:01:41 October, in theory Sep 03 17:01:52 nobody with a clue has updated us. Sep 03 17:02:09 i see Sep 03 17:02:29 And you'd think they might - as they have to know if the current 02 hardware they are comfortable with starting mass production in the next week. Sep 03 17:02:47 And you'd think they might - as they have to know if with the current 02 hardware they are comfortable with starting mass production in the next week. Sep 03 17:03:17 could you rephrase that, i don't quite understand Sep 03 17:03:54 To be available to be arriving with paying users at the end of this month, production has to start in a week or so at most. Sep 03 17:04:36 Call it a week production, 5 days shipping to the US, 5 days processing at FIC US, 5 days shipment. Takes most of a month Sep 03 17:04:42 I think there wheel by delays Sep 03 17:04:42 hi all! Sep 03 17:04:49 Indeed. Sep 03 17:05:03 SpeedEvil: ah, gotcha, i hope not Sep 03 17:06:16 it is all musty impossible to release gta02 on time. example. build today snap from openmoko (software) Sep 03 17:06:21 the latest image is pretty nice (aside from the strange calibration thing) Sep 03 17:07:25 visual is not all. what is about call, sms, gps, wifi, all pim is not finished ... Sep 03 17:07:48 Sort-of, no, no, no, no Sep 03 17:07:52 correct my if I'm wrong Sep 03 17:08:06 i'm trying to be patient enough to wait until they announce the next iteration before deciding which to get :-( Sep 03 17:08:34 It's not been confirmed that 01 will be available after 01 ships Sep 03 17:09:03 no i mean 02 or 03 ;-0 Sep 03 17:09:07 I'm building a kernel image without mokomakefile, but the system hang up after "freeing unused kernel memory", I'm getting this steps http://pastebin.ca/680106 anybody know what i am missing? Sep 03 17:09:45 for present moment Im really happy to have a gta01 :) it giving my meny hh of fun Sep 03 17:11:48 yoyo_: is it usable though? and how is the speed & responsiveness? Sep 03 17:12:48 are necessary any sort of boot parameters? Sep 03 17:12:53 * * OM Bug 794 has been created by kegin7595(AT)yahoo.com.tw Sep 03 17:12:54 * * No package 'matchbox-panel' found Sep 03 17:12:55 * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=794 Sep 03 17:12:58 khaije: can you yous sampler english I don't understand Sep 03 17:13:06 simplier Sep 03 17:14:15 yoyo_: ah sorry! i would like know... is it useful as a primary phone? Sep 03 17:14:50 yoyo_: and also, how is the experience of using it? is it pleasant Sep 03 17:15:44 it is not a my primary phone :( I live it at home. Sep 03 17:16:32 It is _not_ suitable as a phone. Sep 03 17:16:47 And will not be for months. Sep 03 17:16:59 Im at present time it PLAY it is a provider in poland. and it works on a rouming using infrastructure of other net. Moko all time reconect from network to network. and for my it is a problem. Sep 03 17:17:30 other thing is that that it don't have a gui for a sms Sep 03 17:18:06 hmm, ok Sep 03 17:18:36 i know it's not ready for primetime but i thought it was further along than that Sep 03 17:19:10 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Hardware:Neo1973:Alternate_Cases:Gaming_docking_station]] [[Hardware:Neo1973:Alternate_Cases:Ruggedized]] [[Hardware:Neo1973:Alternate_Cases:Analogue_gaming]] [[Hardware:Neo1973:Alternate_Cases:Digital_gaming]] [[Hardware:Neo1973:Alternate_Cases:Camera]] and other changes Sep 03 17:19:18 bbl Sep 03 17:25:01 hm, I can't find the pixmaps of the OM-specific gtk-widgets in the svn. anyone a hint for me? Sep 03 17:41:12 thomasg in the theme maybe? - i think that is in the OE svn, could not access that one myself yet Sep 03 17:44:33 Hail Sep 03 17:44:54 anyone doing builds using debian etch (4.0r1) ? Sep 03 17:46:57 I was wondering if anyone could answer me a Q: I've made a soft keyboard for the neo. All i need now it to make the keyboard hook. Since openmoko already has a text input widget i was thinking i could use that code. Anyone know where i get ahold of the source for the keyboard on the neo Sep 03 17:47:31 i hope you made the keys bigger. Sep 03 17:47:43 using a stylus is way too hard Sep 03 17:48:03 morten__, the neo's current oskeyboard is the matchbox-vkeyboard Sep 03 17:48:16 so you can find it somewhere in the matchbox (window manager) sources Sep 03 17:48:59 Ok.. So i need to find matchbox sources. I'm only looking for the keyboard hooking. Anyone of you guys know how it's done on linux? Sep 03 17:49:38 morten__, I don't know, but as I am writing a keyboard-gui at moment, too, let me konw if you find something out :) Sep 03 17:49:51 morten__ : i'm working on setting up a proper dev environment so ... i haven't even checked out the code yet Sep 03 17:51:13 awesomo4000_, so hurry up and stop watching south park :) Sep 03 17:51:19 ha ha ... Sep 03 17:51:48 Ok, thanks anyways ;) Sep 03 17:52:06 i'd like to use etch because its the latest .. but i'm getting sarge (31r6a) since the 'official' build server uses it <-- that is still correct, right? Sep 03 17:52:06 morten__ me too, i just found out that the password-entry does not fire up the keyboard - would be nice to fix Sep 03 17:52:16 thomasg, What keyboard gui are you working on? Are you a dev? Sep 03 17:52:25 erm, not really :) Sep 03 17:52:37 and it will be a 1-hand, 1-finger keyboard Sep 03 17:53:33 thomasg, Are you using tha same principle as me? take a look at: http://finger-keyboard.projects.openmoko.org/ Sep 03 17:53:47 thomasg have you seen the one by Lars Hallberg? Sep 03 17:54:00 kristian-m, key2key.py you mean? Sep 03 17:54:15 got a screenshot ? Sep 03 17:54:31 Any of you have a link to key2key? Sep 03 17:54:52 thomasg yes Sep 03 17:55:06 http://www.micropp.se/openmoko/res/key2key.py Sep 03 17:55:11 morten__, key2key is the same you are doing :) Sep 03 17:55:16 my concept is completely different Sep 03 17:55:42 thomasg, Ok, thanks. how's the state of key2key? Sep 03 17:55:52 erm, afiak same prototype state Sep 03 17:55:59 theres a thread on the mailinglist Sep 03 17:57:06 thomasg, Maybe i should talk to him, see if we could coop to make it work Sep 03 17:57:16 what's key2key do ? Sep 03 17:57:18 Mine's got dynamic layout Sep 03 17:57:53 morten__, yes, I think cooperation would be cool if it results in a earlier release :) Sep 03 17:58:22 key2key has the same number of buttons, but 9 outputs per key (so 9 directions) Sep 03 17:59:05 Same here, but mine's got editable layout, that is. it will work for any language, specific needs Sep 03 17:59:23 i don't see code in there to make it input to another app.. was that the "hook" mentioned before ? Sep 03 17:59:40 thomasg, Do you have any way i can reach the man who's made this? Sep 03 17:59:52 morten__, mailinglist Sep 03 17:59:57 thomasg, Ok Sep 03 18:00:04 mom, I'll try to find his address Sep 03 18:00:19 awesomo4000_, Yes, how does it work without a hook? Sep 03 18:00:29 morten__, querry Sep 03 18:00:45 is there an interface from python to the keyboard device driver somewhere ? Sep 03 18:01:17 awesomo4000_, I think/hope there's a low-level-interface Sep 03 18:01:37 well ... if not ... we can write one ! Sep 03 18:01:58 morten__, got the querry? you can't answer me there as you are not registered Sep 03 18:02:20 Oh.. Sep 03 18:02:50 thomasg, Did you send anything to me in chat? Sep 03 18:04:49 morten__, I did :) Sep 03 18:07:40 morten__, got it now? Sep 03 18:17:54 thomasg, Yeah. you got my messages? Sep 03 18:18:03 no Sep 03 18:18:12 you can't send me messages, you are not registered on the network Sep 03 18:18:29 Ah.. crap Sep 03 18:18:38 Ok, first. Thanks! Sep 03 18:19:52 Your idea seems smart, but i'd do one minor change. remove the capital letters, and add a shif and a caps-lock. Doing this you could make your buttons double the size Sep 03 18:22:47 do you have a screenshot ? Sep 03 18:23:03 awesomo4000_, Me? Sep 03 18:23:11 yeah Sep 03 18:23:46 Well, you've got python? Sep 03 18:24:10 and pygtk, because then you can try it Sep 03 18:24:32 morten__, I wanted to avoid such metakeys, every sing should be accessibla through a single move Sep 03 18:24:48 %s/sing/thing ... Sep 03 18:25:31 morten__ url? Sep 03 18:25:52 thomasg, I see, good luck on you app =) Sep 03 18:25:58 your keyboard is for large keys, finger entry, right ? Sep 03 18:26:28 btw. morten, I like your approach, hope to see a good final result from you and lars Sep 03 18:26:57 it's definately cool how much ideas there are for keyboards and so on Sep 03 18:27:00 awesomo4000_, Yes, 9 keys, only one finger, possibly two. signifficantly faster than standard mobilephone input Sep 03 18:27:24 Under the "Released files" --> http://finger-keyboard.projects.openmoko.org/ Sep 03 18:28:22 direct link: http://projects.openmoko.org/frs/download.php/13/nested.tar.gz You need python and pygtk, that's it Sep 03 18:28:53 And, i've not tryed it on openmoko yet, as i do not own a phone Sep 03 18:29:13 excellent .. i have a phone .. working on getting the environment setup so then i can test it Sep 03 18:30:01 morten__ I can make a screenshot for you... Sep 03 18:30:45 morten__ http://scap.linuxtogo.org/files/154303dd3576dceaaa0e8a629ea36f68.png Sep 03 18:31:22 What? does it work rigth out of the box? Sep 03 18:31:34 yea, why not? :-) Sep 03 18:31:41 people might be interested in this: http://digg.com/programming/Why_Java_s_Obsolete - would appreciated the diggs ;) Sep 03 18:31:47 the keyboard is activated though Sep 03 18:31:52 Because.. because.. i dont know.. How cool =D Sep 03 18:32:37 Yeah, see, how do i counter that? Sep 03 18:32:51 morten__ and it's really usable, once you undertand the idea :-) Sep 03 18:33:41 kristian-m, Thanks :D Sep 03 18:34:02 morten__ thank _you_ Sep 03 18:34:42 hey that looks pretty cool ... Sep 03 18:34:45 I only need to get rid of that keyboard popup, and get that hook sorted out and it's almost ready for release.. How cool, i never thougth anyone else than me would ever need my programs :P Sep 03 18:36:24 kristian-m, Ok, i need your mokoknowledge. If i made a textbox at the top, would it be possible for you to copy from that. so you could copy/paste untill i get the hook sorted? Sep 03 18:36:36 kristian-m: What's that picture? Some strange input system? Sep 03 18:37:34 I'ts my keyboard idea ;D Sep 03 18:38:22 morten__ i guess you could also put it right into the coppy&paste-buffer - and you should make the edit-field insensitive, of give away the focus, to prevent the keyboard from showing up Sep 03 18:38:35 If you want to write one of the big letters, just press it, else, start on the button the letter is on, and drag in the direction of the letter Sep 03 18:39:38 How does it position the letters? Sep 03 18:39:42 Static+ Sep 03 18:39:42 ? Sep 03 18:40:28 daxxar, No, that's the genious. I's a totaly dynamic layout where you can change very letter for every combination =D Sep 03 18:40:38 morten__ use entry.select_region(0, -1) and entry.copy_clipboard() that should do the trick Sep 03 18:40:41 'for every combination'? Sep 03 18:40:43 s/very/every Sep 03 18:40:52 the keyis good :) Sep 03 18:42:04 (script) openmoko-community: "Michael 'Mickey' Lauer" Re: How "snappy" can the Openmoko GUI get using GTK? Sep 03 18:42:16 Yeah, you can set every possible gesture to a letter. lets say [0,0] -> [1,1] = g Sep 03 18:42:43 that would be the 'a' button to the 'o' button would give you a g Sep 03 18:43:15 kristian-m, On your screenshot i don't see the entry, why? Sep 03 18:43:41 morten__ is there one? - maybe the onscreen-keyboard moved it away Sep 03 18:44:23 kristian-m, I think so, becaus it should have a entry and a "Options" bar Sep 03 18:44:47 How do i get rid of that pop up keyboard then? :S Sep 03 18:46:39 I got this wild idea for how you could implement the interface for GTA02. Since it has accelerometers and 3d accelerator. Use 2 axis movement as a mouse and the third as zoom :) Sep 03 18:47:06 morten__ use self.entry.set_sensitive(0) Sep 03 18:47:43 and maybe use the aux button for mouse button :) Sep 03 18:47:51 kristian-m, Ok Sep 03 18:48:08 morten__ http://scap.linuxtogo.org/files/23a86aa10e333dbc073b2252dfaa714d.png <-- but the text is not entered into the textentry Sep 03 18:48:15 Jiten, But issn't the moko toutchscreen? Sep 03 18:48:20 yeah Sep 03 18:48:31 kristian-m, I'm fixing it as we speak Sep 03 18:48:50 morten__: it is but that zooming would be rather natural way to have a huge desktop space where you can move about. Sep 03 18:49:04 of course, you can use the touchscreen for mouse button though Sep 03 18:49:27 yes, I guess I forgot that :) Sep 03 18:49:44 Ok, we're talking of the keyboard app now? Sep 03 18:56:55 so...if i wanted to type "u" .. how do i ? Sep 03 19:00:12 awesomo4000_, You would start at the middle field with the 'o'. then drag to the upper middle field with the 'n'. release the finger and voila! Sep 03 19:00:48 what is "drag" ? Sep 03 19:00:54 like slide my finger up Sep 03 19:00:57 ? Sep 03 19:01:01 New, edited source, with that autocopu function: http://projects.openmoko.org/frs/download.php/18/keyboard.tar.gz Sep 03 19:01:08 Yup ;) Sep 03 19:01:25 that sounds hard to do while driving Sep 03 19:01:45 : ) Sep 03 19:02:11 awesomo4000_, Hehe, it's much easier than using a stylus. Sep 03 19:03:05 one-handed works well ? Sep 03 19:03:44 awesomo4000_, I can't really say, as i don't own a neo yet. but ask kristian-m. he tried it seconds ago Sep 03 19:04:51 awesomo4000_, But i think it would be easy using your thumb as the finger, and let the neo lie in your palm. That'd be one-handed Sep 03 19:05:16 kristian-m, Would you mind trying the new source? I'd be very greatfull Sep 03 19:05:18 cool .. will have to try it out .. Sep 03 19:06:09 morten__ trying it right now - space and backspace would be great Sep 03 19:06:11 awesomo4000_, Please do, I'd be honoured. And tell people you know with a moko of it Sep 03 19:06:22 cool Sep 03 19:07:53 You can add space youself. just press "options"->"learn" then enter a whitespace in the entry, only a whitespace must be present. then you do the gesture you want to have as space. and press options->learn to turn learn off Sep 03 19:08:07 then you have your own space button Sep 03 19:08:42 i'm a python programmer too .. cool to see you can write something as fundamental as text input in a nice programming language . Sep 03 19:09:22 at least that key2key.py thing was neat i mean Sep 03 19:09:48 morten__ I'll do, see lst screenshot ;-) Sep 03 19:09:49 awesomo4000_, I learnt python for about three weeks ago. I's SO great. never had a better programming experience than with python =) Sep 03 19:10:22 Yup. /me had the same thing when I first read the howtos a few years back Sep 03 19:11:05 i've been using python since 1997 : ) Sep 03 19:11:31 kristian-m, Thank_you ^^ how cool you have use for it =) Do you hang around here often? I'll probably be back towmorrow adding functionality =) Sep 03 19:12:18 morten__ you're welcome Sep 03 19:12:30 awesomo4000_ i see python everywhere recently, it's great Sep 03 19:12:42 awesomo4000_, just look at list in python, it's the best invention since the microwave :P Sep 03 19:12:57 heh yeah ... Sep 03 19:13:32 kristian-m, did you manage to add space to a gesture? Sep 03 19:14:09 There is one problem with space you see. since it's just a space it doesn't show up Sep 03 19:18:24 morten__ maybe one could use underline Sep 03 19:18:48 kristian-m, Yeah, i'll fix that Sep 03 19:18:59 special case for space : ) Sep 03 19:19:05 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Wish_List_-_OpenMoko_Ringtones_and_Sounds]] Sep 03 19:19:18 my motorola phone has a little _ Sep 03 19:20:59 morten__ or maybe all invalid combinations result in space. Sep 03 19:21:16 morten__ debugoutput was already working that way Sep 03 19:23:50 Did i make it so.. maybe i did Sep 03 19:24:50 No, it should not be so, but i'm thinking of just adding a new col to the rigth. containing spapce, backspace and shift ++ Sep 03 19:29:32 build is broken again - this time on scummvm Sep 03 19:30:44 it's starting to look like this is an impossible project to work on. Sep 03 19:32:50 something with the MokoMakeFile or the corresponding svn seems to be wrong. Upon calling make setup after some lines svn exits with a file not found error: http://pastebin.com/m5de980ec Sep 03 19:32:59 or am i just doing something serioulsy wrong? Sep 03 19:33:59 riot: did you update the mokomakefile - it's changed in the last 20 hours or so Sep 03 19:34:12 yes. just some seconds before trying make setup Sep 03 19:34:38 riot: my make setup worked but the build choked a few hours later on scummvm Sep 03 19:34:49 oop, some file-permissions seem bad Sep 03 19:34:58 oh, i want scummvm, too Sep 03 19:36:02 openmoko: 03mickey * r2899 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/daemons/neod/src/ (buttonactions.c buttonactions.h): Sep 03 19:36:02 openmoko: neod: UI change Sep 03 19:36:02 openmoko: * aux button on hold now opens up a popup menu -- same as power button on hold Sep 03 19:36:02 openmoko: * aux button contains non-power related menu items, power button menu power related items Sep 03 19:36:04 (script) openmoko-devel: "Michael 'Mickey' Lauer" Re: Current bugbears Sep 03 19:36:27 well - i'd prefer that we at least we have a stable base system - which we will never have with hourly untested commits Sep 03 19:36:37 wtf. my samba plays stupid. Sep 03 19:37:25 * riot should be using nfs Sep 03 19:38:12 Writchie ... there should be a "don't break the build" policy ! Sep 03 19:38:26 no, there are snapshots Sep 03 19:38:45 snapshots are considered the "stable" base to develop from then ? Sep 03 19:38:54 yeah, the how does one build a snapshop with mokomakefile?? Sep 03 19:39:00 s/the/then Sep 03 19:39:08 s/the/then/ Sep 03 19:39:09 Writchie meant: s/then/then Sep 03 19:39:51 wtf.wtf. that stupid samba created files with other permissions than it is displaying now. Sep 03 19:40:30 Writchie: I don't know, but it should be described somewhere, since somebody already did Sep 03 19:41:35 riot: use rsync or such Sep 03 19:41:58 AFAIK: - and I''ve build building continuously for two weeks, mokomakefile grabs whatever is being committed live at the moment Sep 03 19:42:16 this is next to useless. Sep 03 19:42:20 riot: oh, you in a win enviornment? Sep 03 19:42:25 no Sep 03 19:43:03 not on the build machine - I vnc into multiple linux boxes Sep 03 19:43:33 Writchie: http://pastebin.ca/680285 Sep 03 19:44:28 as I understand it, 'thomasg' builts his own snapshot images Sep 03 19:44:58 if you look down a few lines you will see that I asked him what he meant by this. Sep 03 19:45:13 self built - means I made it my self as in i rolled my own. Sep 03 19:45:17 wtf. Sep 03 19:45:38 in other words, there really is no build system. Sep 03 19:46:04 you can't build for yourself with all sources release xyz of anything Sep 03 19:46:10 at least not with mokomakefile Sep 03 19:46:16 i'm using debian only. but the makefile (or svn?) creates some files with 555 instead of 666. How stupid is that?! Sep 03 19:48:46 my idea of a build system is you have some stable toolchain version that creates binaries from sources - repeatable - and the binaries identical. Sep 03 19:50:24 (script) openmoko-devel: "Michael 'Mickey' Lauer" Re: Current bugbears Sep 03 19:52:15 hmm.. some samba-problem.. but i can't figure it out Sep 03 19:53:53 ynezz, you understand right, I use own snapshots Sep 03 19:55:57 how hard would it be to just have a weekly snapshot from which everyone could build and verify ?? Sep 03 19:56:35 in addition to the continuous build of course Sep 03 19:57:26 Writchie is exactly correct; while OE has a distributed version control tool at it's core, it is *NOT* designed to be used with stable snapshots. Rather OE fits the model of what I used to hear called a "continuous engineering tool". Sep 03 19:57:56 you can use branches, some kind of 'weekly' snapshot Sep 03 19:57:57 mwester: aka never working Sep 03 19:58:16 That would be awesome... try current dev build with openmoko-devel-image and if that fails openmoko-snapshot-image Sep 03 19:58:18 or checkout the status of repo to some date Sep 03 19:58:21 The "Continous Engineering" model, as applied to SCM, is a very good model with a minimum of integration required, but it only scales to very small teams, usually 12/ dozen active developers at mose. Sep 03 19:58:26 s/mose/most/ Sep 03 19:58:27 mwester meant: The "Continous Engineering" model, as applied to SCM, is a very good model with a minimum of integration required, but it only scales to very small teams, usually 12/ dozen active developers at most. Sep 03 19:59:04 mwester: i agree Sep 03 19:59:19 it seems to require short span of control Sep 03 19:59:58 it seems to work fine for less than a dozen core developers Sep 03 20:00:16 but it seems now 100 people are spinning their wheels to contribute Sep 03 20:00:28 and they don't have matching source/binaries to work with Sep 03 20:00:53 right. Sep 03 20:01:53 Thats why i usually rather like to develop python-apps. The whole process is far easier. But now bugfixing is at a higher priority. Yet i can't because i have to somehow build the stuff. Sep 03 20:02:48 you can't predict apriori what any particular would be developer may work on - so you need a working build system that creates everything. Sep 03 20:03:06 and the snapshot build has at a minimum to be tested and debug that it will at least build. Sep 03 20:03:20 omg. mtn scares me. Sep 03 20:04:57 mtn bb are not necessarily bad - they may be the best choices - but they have steep learning curves. That's why mokomakefile is a good idea. But it all has to made to work. Sep 03 20:05:32 otherwise the project will eventually have only the core developer left - and no-one who measures their time in $100's per hour Sep 03 20:05:42 steep, yep. Never seen those two beasts before, though i find the little things i've learned so far a) scary b) interesting Sep 03 20:05:51 kristian-m, I don't know if you're still there but now i've added backspace. you have to give a button "\b" it will be translated to backspace. if you want space just press any combination without a letter ;) Sep 03 20:06:03 heh ... i bought a phone to develop with... i want to recreate the build host Sep 03 20:06:16 awesomo4000_: you're in for some rough ride ;) Sep 03 20:06:23 first find some religion Sep 03 20:06:29 i downloaded sarge 3.1r6 Sep 03 20:06:32 netinst Sep 03 20:06:41 and i'm setting up under parallels in mac os x Sep 03 20:06:56 with a few tweaks ubuntu 7.04 works fine - probably with least amount of fuss Sep 03 20:07:15 I give up :( . what should add to pkg-config to build application base on a glade xml Sep 03 20:07:18 hmm. say, how many SLOC do OE+OM have? Sep 03 20:07:42 ahh 7.04 is the latest ubunutu ? Sep 03 20:07:58 that would be easier .. Sep 03 20:08:11 yoyo_: how about libglade-2.0? Sep 03 20:08:20 follow the instructions to apt-get the packages you need - see wiki Sep 03 20:08:24 I'w added Sep 03 20:08:33 Writchie: the OE environment is the tricky part ? Sep 03 20:08:56 pH5: where can I past some text? to show you a problem Sep 03 20:09:00 mokomakefile will do all of the work Sep 03 20:09:19 as long as the build isn't borked - and it usually is borked Sep 03 20:09:35 yoyo_: rafb.net/paste Sep 03 20:10:41 from what I hear in this room it sounds like we'll soon run out of FLASH Sep 03 20:10:58 kristian-m, Are you here? Sep 03 20:11:46 there's loads of stuff in the image right now that can be trimmed out; I think there will be plenty of flash. Sep 03 20:11:51 pH5: http://rafb.net/p/swpzbM48.html Sep 03 20:12:05 mwester: after it its trimmed out Sep 03 20:13:18 mwester: we will need a more selective install process rather than putting everything in the rootfs Sep 03 20:13:22 I guess it depends on what you intend to install. I'm assuming a base image that each user would add applications to (like the Treo). Sep 03 20:14:11 Right now the tool is "ipkg", but I hear that Angstrom is going to the debian dpkg format, which would probably be better. Sep 03 20:14:22 pH5: some ideas? Sep 03 20:14:54 We should also expect the ability to install applications to a filesystem on the SD card, rather than just limit it to mp3s and such... (IMO) Sep 03 20:15:25 mwester: absolutely - especially for GTA01 which is only 64MB Sep 03 20:15:58 * mwester works on the NSLU2, with only 8MB --- so 64MB feels plenty roomy indeed... :) Sep 03 20:16:02 Not core apps of course. Sep 03 20:16:28 It absolutely must run on 64M, with some user data Sep 03 20:16:46 mwester: 64MB is plenty for core apps - but all the games and images are the problem Sep 03 20:17:05 yoyo_: your environment is not set up correctly, ld is not looking for libs in the right places. Sep 03 20:17:20 the SD is not really what I would call "removable" Sep 03 20:17:28 Right. But it seems to me that it wouldn't be unreasonable to have a video viewer, with codecs, and all supporting images, binaries, etc on the SD card along with the MPG movie I want to watch. Sep 03 20:17:58 yoyo_: try running this from inside a "bitbake -cdevshell " or look at the environment inside the devshell, especially LDFLAGS. Sep 03 20:18:08 pH5: I build it from mokomakefile :/ didn't change any thing in config file :/ Sep 03 20:18:23 oh, wonderful. My usb-network isn't working anymore. Sep 03 20:19:08 since the GTA02 is 256MB it seems to me that a 192MB partition on SD for the GTA01 makes sense to give it the same capacity. Sep 03 20:19:12 Writchie: the SD card isn't removable physically -- but it makes sense to treat it as such (and a cool application would be to be able to read/write the SD card from a PC via bluetooth...) Sep 03 20:19:48 yoyo_: mokomakefile doesn't set up the cross compiling environment. as I understand, it only sets up the environment for bitbake, so you either need to make bitbake recipes or work from within bitbake, not modify that Makefile. Sep 03 20:20:18 you can write full partitions as such to the SD card now from a windows, mac, or linux box Sep 03 20:22:46 pH5: hyy other app I can build that method :/ Sep 03 20:22:47 mwester: we could relatively easily make one VFAT partition on the SD behave as a USB mass storage device Sep 03 20:23:17 it requires a "gadget selector" app on the neo to say which gadget device should be loaded. Sep 03 20:23:32 mwester, bnep+sftp Sep 03 20:23:42 you load the mass storage gadget and voila - it appears as a mass storage device to other systems. Sep 03 20:24:05 you can use BT now as mjr said - or even install samba Sep 03 20:24:33 GTA02 will probably bet for samba anyway Sep 03 20:24:40 s/bet/beg/ Sep 03 20:24:40 Writchie meant: GTA02 will probably beg for samba anyway Sep 03 20:26:43 mjr: obex should be functionally equivalent to bnep+sftp at least for single files Sep 03 20:27:58 Writchie: scummvm 0.9.1-r1 builds just fine here. Sep 03 20:29:20 it fails with "Looking for sdl-config.... non found" when building with mokomakefile Sep 03 20:29:39 morten__ re Sep 03 20:29:40 and this of course means game over. Sep 03 20:30:44 pH5: it may have dependencies tied to the host system. Sep 03 20:30:55 as has been the case for other borked builds in the past. Sep 03 20:31:29 Writchie: this looks like a missing dependency on libsdl-native somewhere. Sep 03 20:31:49 Writchie try updating your repo. there were changes to the scummvm package Sep 03 20:31:59 though qemu-native depends on libsdl-native, so it is built anyway. Sep 03 20:32:08 Writchie: did you by chance comment out the qemu build? Sep 03 20:32:22 pH5: no Sep 03 20:32:30 make update all Sep 03 20:32:39 writchie, sdl-config is probably part of libsdl-dev package? u got that Sep 03 20:32:57 i'm sure I don't have it on my host Sep 03 20:33:03 unless its part of the build Sep 03 20:34:10 maybe my ideas of the tool chain here are not accurate Sep 03 20:34:21 hej roh, did you find time to add support for measuring the ac adapter's resistance to the pmu driver? Sep 03 20:35:27 nope.. i havent had that much time this weekend.. Sep 03 20:35:40 just rebuilding my repo clean Sep 03 20:36:56 but i have a usb cable with power-measurement tap now and want to build one for the battery to i can test the lm-suspend-power-off patch and similar stuff soon. Sep 03 20:37:31 roh: ok, great. no hurry, just wanted to say I'll be interested as soon as it's ready. Sep 03 20:37:40 pH5 we should schedule a hacking session soon.. ;) have some small ideas Sep 03 20:37:46 definitely Sep 03 20:38:10 pH5 same here.. we then also need to add the values we find to uboot ;) Sep 03 20:38:29 till now there is no code i'm aware of even for our own coming up psu Sep 03 20:41:32 writchie if it not on your host u probably need to apt-get libsdl1.2-dev if u debian/ubuntu for example Sep 03 20:41:46 that's what i am doing now Sep 03 20:41:53 but this is not how this is supposed to work Sep 03 20:42:02 why? Sep 03 20:42:15 these are part of the tool-chain Sep 03 20:42:33 well i would guess SDL is used for QEMU which runs on your host? Sep 03 20:42:38 it should not have depencies on my host system. Sep 03 20:42:59 Writchie: no, you need to bitbake libsdl-x11-native because the libsdl-x11 doesn't seem to provide a native sdl-config Sep 03 20:43:18 this is a metadata bug in either libsdl or scummvm, not sure. Sep 03 20:43:29 i think its an oe bug in that case Sep 03 20:43:44 pH5: in any case - its metadata? Sep 03 20:44:18 without SDL on your host how would QEMU run? Sep 03 20:44:24 Writchie: like roh said, a bug in oe. Sep 03 20:44:26 i had a similar thing with the X11ext Sep 03 20:45:24 either libsdl-x11 should depend on libsdl-x11-native so that anything that depends on libsdl-x11 can use sdl-config (though today use of pkg-config sdl would be preferred) Sep 03 20:45:29 far more subtle problems than not building are possible when picking up depencies from the wrong place Sep 03 20:46:12 or scummvm patched to use pkgconfig or libsdl-x11 patched to provide a native sdl-config. I think the first method is the right one, probably. Sep 03 20:46:58 I run avay Sep 03 20:47:00 si a Sep 03 20:47:05 pH5: roh: thanks for your help Sep 03 20:48:21 what's scummvm ? is that for games ? Sep 03 20:49:02 www.scummvm.org Sep 03 20:49:10 thats for monkey-island. Sep 03 20:49:24 you need a original game though. Sep 03 20:50:48 zedstar: why would my buildhost even need a graphics card or even x? Sep 03 20:51:07 it wouldn't Sep 03 20:51:52 writchie are going to run a graphical emulator eg QEMU? Sep 03 20:51:58 or ... "shouldn't" : ) Sep 03 20:52:33 yes - but not necessarily on my build host Sep 03 20:53:14 writchie well if u dont need QEMU that is fine......i infact have but but dont use it as i just copy over to my neo instead Sep 03 20:54:06 zedsatr: my point is just that the build host is just that - the machine that you use to build on. In this case is mostly cross builds. Sep 03 20:54:24 the native builds are always going to be problematic Sep 03 20:54:43 writchie: yeh i understand but if you are gonna run a graphical emulator on your buildhost that is different Sep 03 20:54:45 they should probably even be build somewhere else Sep 03 20:56:18 i got feisty fawn running in ubuntu Sep 03 20:56:21 errr i mean parallels Sep 03 20:56:22 the native builds on OM are really specific to that particular native platform - rh, suse, deb, whatever Sep 03 20:57:14 i guess what u wanna build are some cross tools without QEMU if u dont have SDL etc Sep 03 20:58:37 zedstar: it's not for me - i'm speaking in terms of what the community needs/expects. You should be able to build on most any system and test on most any system including real device. Sep 03 20:59:00 writchie: what distro u on? Sep 03 20:59:27 well i'm building on ubuntu at the moment, but i have rh, suse, and centos too. Sep 03 21:00:34 writchie: have u read http://www.openembedded.org/wiki/OEandYourDistro Sep 03 21:01:02 zedstar: yes - and it not sufficient Sep 03 21:01:08 Writchie: you will helpp me duplicate your setup whenever i run into problems... this is the meaning of free tech support ... errr .. i mean "community involvement" Sep 03 21:01:14 : ) Sep 03 21:01:16 there are other depencies that i found the hard way. Sep 03 21:02:10 amewsomo4000: i lurk here and help where I can. Make sure your follow the wiki FIRST and you then find lots of help here where it doesn't work. Sep 03 21:03:11 cool : ) Sep 03 21:03:13 writchie: ok...well there at least tells u need libsdl1.2-dev for your system Sep 03 21:03:21 i'm not too high maintenance .. no worries .. Sep 03 21:03:40 zedstar: if it does then its new - i will look Sep 03 21:03:57 its always been there Sep 03 21:06:53 zedstar: it's there since 2007-08-17 and it's nonsense. libsdl-x11-native takes care of that dependency, no need to have it on the host from the beginning. Sep 03 21:07:48 zedstar: the Ubuntu instructions ommitted libsdl - it's listed only for debian. Sep 03 21:08:12 anyway, i am installing to get past the build. Sep 03 21:08:56 the ubuntu instructions say the above debian instructions apply Sep 03 21:09:28 well if that means literally, then most of it is duplicated. Sep 03 21:09:44 anyway, i seem to already have libsdl1.2-dev Sep 03 21:13:34 writchie: if u enter sdl-config it outputting anything? Sep 03 21:13:41 it find it? Sep 03 21:13:47 mtn: misuse: checkout directory '/mnt/network/ds_home/openmoko/openembedded' already exists Sep 03 21:13:58 zedstar: yes Sep 03 21:13:59 what does that mean when trying to "make setup" using the mokomakefile? Sep 03 21:14:45 writchie does the build get past that bit or still problem? Sep 03 21:15:54 zedstar: i am running another make update now Sep 03 21:16:21 IIRC it couldn't find the configuration file Sep 03 21:18:16 writchie: ok...anyways i got it working on ubuntu doing something like this if that helps.... Sep 03 21:19:24 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Shipping_Notes]] [[Booting_from_SD]] [[Repositories]] [[Flashing_openmoko]] Sep 03 21:24:31 dev/mmcblk0p1 479668 82930 371973 18% / Sep 03 21:24:45 zedstar: build still fails: Looking for sdl-config... none found! Sep 03 21:24:58 sdl-config a binary program is there Sep 03 21:26:34 writchie: u paste the output where it fails? Sep 03 21:30:16 zedstar: http://www.pastebin.ca/680435 Sep 03 21:31:51 zedstar: i think its looking for this in the i686 directory of the build Sep 03 21:32:55 omg.. don't enable desktop effects in ubuntu 7.04 if you are running in parallels ... Sep 03 21:32:57 FYI Sep 03 21:33:39 writchie: i have only the host sdl-config on my system for example nothing in the build directory unlike pkg-config which i have both Sep 03 21:33:52 writchie: waiting for the site to load the paste.... Sep 03 21:39:52 zedsatr: understanding this build worked yesterday - it became broken with the latest changes to scummVM Sep 03 21:40:52 ok.. one should never ctrl-c the mokomakefile anywhere.. *grr* Sep 03 21:40:53 writchie: looking at that it is the target configured sdl-config it is looking for.. i dont even have sdl-config in my build dir Sep 03 21:41:35 zedstar: that's what it looks like to me Sep 03 21:41:41 when did you last build yours? Sep 03 21:42:41 writchie: hmmm probably about a week ago Sep 03 21:43:14 zedstar: well its changed since then, i've had successful builds up until today - last was yesterday in fact Sep 03 21:43:33 it looks like scummVM uses SDL on the target platform Sep 03 21:43:54 zedstar: oh ok i was under the impression u didnt build it from scratch.... yeh it does use SDL Sep 03 21:44:25 i don't remember scummVM even being in the build Sep 03 21:44:56 writchie: im not updating my environment much as i am building from command line stuff and just running on the neo which seems to work ok for me Sep 03 21:46:51 writchie: even though it fails are your tools still intact for building hello world example etc? Sep 03 21:46:57 the build takes so long from scratch that everyone is motivated to update - but when the update is broken you are left with nothing - in future i will copy the whole directory. Sep 03 21:47:34 zedstar: i'm trying to work on gsmd libgsmd things but i can't if i don't have current source that matches the binaries i'm running. Sep 03 21:48:27 writchie: ok i guess that stuff is changing quickly as well Sep 03 21:48:28 i may just abandon trying to fix the current gsmd and libgsmd and just rewrite a proper d-bus layer for the modem from scratch. Sep 03 21:48:30 Writchie: why don't you just bitbake libgsmd then instead of the whole image, including for some strange reason scummvm? Sep 03 21:48:57 i need to learn that bitbake route also Sep 03 21:49:46 i was led to believe that i could just use mokomakefile Sep 03 21:50:11 it appears that you cannot really participate in this project unless you worship at the alter of bb Sep 03 21:50:35 can loose a lot of dev time with this stuff Sep 03 21:50:41 bb==bitbake==oe builder ? Sep 03 21:50:55 it's sad. i think the project is going to loose 90% of the potential developers Sep 03 21:51:38 you need to spend 10% on build system and 90% on what you are working on - not the other way around Sep 03 21:51:44 for the core stuff yeh its gonna be difficult Sep 03 21:52:02 whatever happened to ./configure && make && make install Sep 03 21:52:07 general application development is ok if u dont worry having the latest Sep 03 21:52:37 zedstar: but i am working below the application layers Sep 03 21:52:51 yeh u shafted ;) Sep 03 21:53:05 write all the apps in python ! .. then no worries .. Sep 03 21:53:08 i would like gpsd etc but i got plenty to get with right now Sep 03 21:54:08 well some of us more interested in the phone part ;) Sep 03 21:54:17 i would have carried on with 2007.1 but broke binary compitability on 2007.2 so more time wasted installing tools Sep 03 21:55:01 yeh working phone stuff be nice ;) Sep 03 21:55:04 atm 2007.1 is my only working tool chain - forutnately i have 2 devices Sep 03 21:55:55 u got one flashed with 2007.1 and one 2007.2 ? Sep 03 21:58:56 morning Sep 03 21:59:44 scummvm depends on virtual/libsdl, which should stage sdl-config, and that is then picked up by scummvm configure Sep 03 22:00:23 BTW, if you just build openmoko-devel-image, instead of 'all' (which also builds all packages for an openmoko-feed), then it won't even try to build scummvm Sep 03 22:03:45 i want to use my hx4700 with openmoko. is there any howto? Sep 03 22:03:45 "koen" from the angström distribution made this step already, but i didnt found how. Sep 03 22:03:46 lhaes: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (and also SH1, SH1_FAQ, Neo1973, Developer_preview and Neo1973_Hardware#GTA01Bv4 pages) (Hopefully these links answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) Sep 03 22:04:46 aloril2: ill try it thanks Sep 03 22:05:37 Writchie: Once one learns what bitbake does, and how oe is organized, you'll find that you can easily reduce it to 10% overhead or less, and spend 90% on the thing you're interested in. Sep 03 22:06:53 morning rwhitby, thanks for that comment. I only just noticed binconfig.bbclass. Sep 03 22:06:55 and good night Sep 03 22:07:13 openmoko: 03rwhitby * r157 10mokomakefile/trunk/Makefile: Added image, tools and feed convenience targets. Sep 03 22:08:20 people should run "make image" rather than "make all", unless they *really* do want *everything* *possible* to be built. Sep 03 22:09:24 Might I suggest that the "all" target simply print a usage message regarding the targets that *should* be used, rather than default to anything? Sep 03 22:10:03 rwhitby: thanks. I was doing make update all because that was your recommendation last time? Sep 03 22:10:06 * mwester thinks the break in compatibility might be worth the growning frustration with overal build... Sep 03 22:10:26 Oops - freudian slip? :-D s/growning/growing/ Sep 03 22:10:35 Writchie: yep, 'all' is my recommendation, cause that flushes out all the build problems in everything. Sep 03 22:11:19 if someone has done an update and scummvm -r1 doesn't build, I'd like to see a pastebin Sep 03 22:11:45 rwhitby: http://www.pastebin.ca/680435 - how's that for service Sep 03 22:13:07 what does the --with-sdl-prefix line in packages/scummvm/scummvm.inc say? Sep 03 22:15:33 Writchie: ^^ Sep 03 22:15:38 rwhitby: with-sdl-prefix=$(STAGING_BINDIR_CROSS}/.. Sep 03 22:15:59 in openembedded/packages/scummvm Sep 03 22:16:15 ok, you've got the latest package recipe, good. Sep 03 22:17:08 what does "find build/tmp/staging -name sdl-config" say? Sep 03 22:18:23 not finding it Sep 03 22:21:41 the virtual/libsdl DEPENDS in scummvm bb file is supposed to stage that. Sep 03 22:24:33 rwhitby: don't seem to be getting a u-boot image Sep 03 22:25:13 yep Sep 03 22:25:38 np - whenever you get to it :) Sep 03 22:26:19 not up to me - uboot-openmoko doesn't build for me at the moment Sep 03 22:26:21 now I get it - this is the bitbake tutorial Sep 03 22:26:42 is there a way to just build a kernel and shell with the current build system .. then make the image manually Sep 03 22:26:43 bye Sep 03 22:27:34 awesomo4000_: if you learn raw bitbake commands, yes. Sep 03 22:29:20 looks like time to learn then ... Sep 03 22:29:53 test Sep 03 22:30:17 rwhitby: is libsdl-qpe the correct dependency? Sep 03 22:31:31 libsdl-x11 is the one which gets built, and which should stage the sdl-config file Sep 03 22:36:17 darn darn. reinstalling ubuntu Sep 03 22:44:13 * Kero decides not to respond in the bugbears thread a second time. once may have been too much, already :( Sep 03 22:51:40 tho it's pretty bad I spelled 'belief' wrong. twice. Sep 03 23:06:58 hi openmokoers :D Sep 03 23:19:24 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[MokoMakefile]] [[Hardware:AGPS]] [[Phase_1_Software_Testing]] [[Main_Page]] Sep 03 23:37:45 i read somewhere that gdb includes an arm instruction simulator.. does the gdb in openmoko have that built in? Sep 03 23:55:53 It's boring to wait for 21:00 before starting a build to avoid the problems with the "*+svn*" packages Sep 03 23:58:48 cron Sep 03 23:59:54 SpeedEvil: oh, btw, my parents said that the girl at the shop said the bulging battery was because of overcharging Sep 04 00:00:13 Well - yes. Sep 04 00:00:16 SpeedEvil: which makes sense, since I charged every single night for the whole night, and the phone is an year and a half old Sep 04 00:00:27 It can also be from battery failure Sep 04 00:00:31 SpeedEvil: I was counting on the phone's PMU to avoid that kind of problem... Sep 04 00:00:40 It should. Sep 04 00:00:53 But... Sep 04 00:01:05 SpeedEvil: which made me think: does the _neo_'s PMU avoid that (by cutting tricke charge when it's over/under a voltage/current threshold, etc)? Sep 04 00:01:15 SpeedEvil: because, if the PMU doesn't, the kernel must Sep 04 00:01:32 SpeedEvil: (and uboot too... having two kernels is annoying sometimes) Sep 04 00:01:36 It limits battery voltage to 4.2 Sep 04 00:01:55 There is a hardware limit at 7V or something. Sep 04 00:02:12 SpeedEvil: 7V? isn't that ridiculously high? Sep 04 00:02:22 yes. Sep 04 00:02:31 * cesarb stiffles a giggle at 7V being "ridiculously high" nowadays Sep 04 00:24:48 rwhitby: new patch for mokomakefile: http://pastebin.ca/680544 which adds a few targets to do at least part of what an "autoclean" job would do Sep 04 00:25:10 rwhitby: to use, simply run the target manually for the previous day (or the day you want to purge from the records) Sep 04 00:26:29 cesarb: the hope is that all this date stuff will go away in the next few days as SRCREV is deployed. Sep 04 00:27:31 rwhitby: I hope so, because it's *very* annoying to see webkit-gtk (the slowest of them, perhaps for being c++) rebuild *every* *single* *time* Sep 04 00:27:44 amen to that Sep 04 00:28:03 Hey folks. Anyone around who's good with oe/bitbake? I'm having a problem with my first .bb from scratch: http://pastebin.ca/680545 Sep 04 00:28:28 rwhitby: even then, the images part of clean-deploy-date-% should still be a little bit useful Sep 04 00:28:49 For some reason g++ isn't seeing gtk.h, even though it *is* present (in a subdir of the main include dir) -- shouldn't those be searched too? Sep 04 00:29:08 quicksand: it would be easier if you also posted the .bb... Sep 04 00:30:05 Certainly. http://pastebin.ca/680548 Sep 04 00:30:58 (You can disregard the "inherit pkgconfig" there -- I was messing around, and it neither helps nor hurts.) Sep 04 00:35:36 quicksand: where is the makefile expecting to find the so-called "gtk/gtk.h"? Sep 04 00:35:48 quicksand: is it a file from the package itself, or it it from gtk+? Sep 04 00:36:46 The .cc file that is failing has "#include " -- if that's what you're asking. Sep 04 00:38:01 And you can see from my first pastebin that the compiler is getting "-isystem/home/clarke/moko/tmp/staging/arm-angstrom-linux-gnueabi/include" which is correct . . . Sep 04 00:38:02 quicksand: and it expects to get the gtk/gtk.h from gtk+-2.0? Does it use pkg-config on the makefile to get the correct CFLAGS? Sep 04 00:38:29 quicksand: because, if it doesn't use pkg-config, there's no way it can know where that include actually is... it could be anywhere Sep 04 00:38:53 quicksand: it's NOT in the default include path... I checked Sep 04 00:39:09 . . . and gtk.h is in include/gtk-2.0/gtk/gtk.h Sep 04 00:39:37 You're right -- it's in a subdir of the default include path, as are many other headers (cairo, pango, etc.) Sep 04 00:40:28 quicksand: I can only help you so far, I never actually used pkg-config Sep 04 00:40:39 Heh, me too! Thanks for the effort. Sep 04 00:40:42 quicksand: unless you count autoconf magic as using pkg-config Sep 04 00:41:08 quicksand: (btw, autoconf/automake/libtool can really help on cross-compiling gizmos like bitbake) Sep 04 00:41:16 anyone know Sep 04 00:41:27 anyone port gcc to the phone yet ? Sep 04 00:41:28 : ) Sep 04 00:41:52 quicksand: you have to use pkg-config --cflags something to get the CFLAGS, and pkg-config --libs something to get part of the linker command line, AFAIK Sep 04 00:41:55 One thing that's interesting and fun (and granted, somewhat frustrating) about developing for oe is that you really can't take any of those magic procedures for granted. It really, really helps if you understand what's going on. Sep 04 00:42:25 Thanks. I'll dig into that. Sep 04 00:43:00 quicksand: well, the exception might be autoconf's magic, since it's since the beginning engineered specifically for cross-compilation... Sep 04 00:43:15 quicksand: which is why most people tend to dislike it, since it's waaay overkill most of the time Sep 04 00:44:05 quicksand: it being written on a very strange language (a special-purpose language implemented as a set of m4 macros generating a multi-megabyte shell script) doesn't help Sep 04 00:44:27 quicksand: as doesn't help the fact that it tries to be WAY too portable (what the swearword is a "Kubota Titan"?) Sep 04 00:45:54 Heh. Well, to the extent the OE metadata is self-documenting, that too might help -- unfortunately there's not much documentation beyond that. Sep 04 00:46:41 quicksand: if bitbake/oe's documentation were on Wikipedia, it would probably get a {{stub}} tag Sep 04 00:46:49 * cesarb wonders if that reference was too obscure Sep 04 00:47:46 Nope. Sep 04 00:59:03 cesarb: nah, that's about spot on :) Sep 04 00:59:10 rwhitby: ping Sep 04 00:59:51 rtyler: gu Sep 04 01:00:05 escaped from meetings long enough to hack? ;) Sep 04 01:00:16 uboot-openmoko fails to build for me. Sep 04 01:00:31 yikes Sep 04 01:13:13 I started from scratch and it fails at "icu-native_3.6.bb do_compile failed" with "/usr/lib/libstdc++.so.6: undefined reference to `_Unwind_GetIPInfo@GCC_4.2.0'" Sep 04 01:16:30 OM build failed :http://pastebin.com/m2fc89c2c Sep 04 01:20:04 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Voice_Mailbox]] Sep 04 01:27:37 hey all Sep 04 01:27:37 OM build failed :http://pastebin.com/m2fc89c2c Sep 04 01:27:37 :) Sep 04 01:28:00 um Sep 04 01:28:04 you don't have matchbox-panel? Sep 04 01:28:21 yeah i just sshed to the moko for the first time Sep 04 01:28:28 I don't know, I 'm using openmokomakefile Sep 04 01:28:35 Richard: you still need the dependencies Sep 04 01:28:43 Richard: what distro Sep 04 01:28:46 awesomo4000: :D Sep 04 01:28:51 morning Sep 04 01:29:35 2007.2 Sep 04 01:29:39 gentoo? Sep 04 01:29:48 ubuntu? Sep 04 01:29:54 ubntu. Sep 04 01:29:58 ah Sep 04 01:30:21 well, i have no authority since i've never built openmoko before Sep 04 01:30:26 but try: apt-get install matchbox-panel Sep 04 01:30:29 Anybody play with the openmoko-mediaplayer2 before? Sep 04 01:30:58 I have to have matchbox-panel on host? Sep 04 01:32:39 Richard: it seems that way, i guess Sep 04 01:33:10 keep in mind i'ver never done this though Sep 04 01:33:10 XD Sep 04 01:33:18 *i've Sep 04 02:05:53 I cannot mokomakefile update, because of a locked working svn-copy in openmoko/patches.. svn cleanup doesn't help. Sep 04 02:06:15 I suppose it has something do with with a previous interrupted make update Sep 04 02:09:43 riot: try make clobber-patches to remove that directory; make update should recreate it (quite fast) Sep 04 02:10:01 riot: don't do it if you have local changes on that directory, however... Sep 04 02:11:00 hmm. tried that. No success, though :/.. could you have a look? http://pastebin.com/m3f94d36b Sep 04 02:11:32 isn't necessary OM itself :( Sep 04 02:12:15 riot: ah, that one is "clobber-openmoko" Sep 04 02:12:22 riot: takes a while to download again on update Sep 04 02:12:38 riot: because of the insanely huge .wav files on the artwork directories Sep 04 02:12:55 oh, yes.. i saw those :( Sep 04 02:13:55 i try some cleanups Sep 04 02:14:32 riot: a cleanup on the openmoko directory should be enough... Sep 04 02:16:32 svn: 'trunk/src/target/OM-2007/openmoko-libs/data/Makefile.am' is not under version control << Huh?! Sep 04 02:16:42 i didn't create that one..? Sep 04 02:16:55 riot: svn probably was creating that when it was interrupted Sep 04 02:17:04 riot: just remove it and let svn download it again Sep 04 02:17:13 oh, yes, possible.. thanks! Sep 04 02:17:46 whoa, just deleted it, yet svn cleanup claims it were still not under version control.. confusing Sep 04 02:18:35 riot: what does svn status say about that file? Sep 04 02:19:31 its gone now. Sep 04 02:19:39 still, it claims locked Sep 04 02:20:39 riot: how strange... svn cleanup usually is enough Sep 04 02:20:59 svn: 'Makefile.am' is not under version control Sep 04 02:21:07 though i even deleted it.. Sep 04 02:21:58 riot: the svn control files are probably confused... it might be faster to just redownload the tree ;-) Sep 04 02:22:15 i just try removing that particular directory completely Sep 04 02:22:27 riot: that will just confuse its parent directory Sep 04 02:22:38 riot: since it will get out of sync Sep 04 02:22:58 yep, and leads to the same error.. seems to be locked recursively.. *sigh* Sep 04 02:26:39 why are there whole wave-files inside the trunk? Sep 04 02:28:38 riot: beats me Sep 04 02:29:08 riot: probably some designer's idea of proprer use of version control Sep 04 02:29:53 incredible.. that guy must secretly work for hitachi or sandisk.. Sep 04 02:29:57 riot: of course, someone had the cool idea of using svn copy on it Sep 04 02:30:01 riot: at least twice Sep 04 02:30:47 duh. At work, we shoot folks pulling such tricks. Esp. since our cvs is already totally bloated. Sep 04 02:31:14 riot: you guys still use cvs? Sep 04 02:31:19 oh, and i don't get the point, why is svn being used, when theres a monotone around it? Sep 04 02:31:34 riot: svn's cvs-to-svn script works well... Sep 04 02:31:38 riot: ugh, don't mention the m word Sep 04 02:31:41 cesarb: yep, even gets worse: i implemented a component enabling our main product to utilize a cvs-client. Sep 04 02:31:51 riot: monotone is the single slowest SCM I've ever seen Sep 04 02:32:34 cesarb: hmm. i don't yet fully understand montone, but some parts seem like a totally cool idea to me. Sep 04 02:33:18 $ cat battemp Sep 04 02:33:18 3 Sep 04 02:33:25 Is "3" normal for battemp? Sep 04 02:33:51 riot: it is a cool idea. It's no wonder linus copied some of its best ideas for git Sep 04 02:33:53 uh, mine has 33 celsius on the left side and 29 on the right. Must be the gpu, which is at 46 Sep 04 02:34:06 (oh you mean the phone?? Wheres that battemp??) Sep 04 02:34:11 riot: which, unlike monotone, is the single fastest SCM I've ever seen Sep 04 02:34:30 riot: on the pcf50606 Sep 04 02:34:35 riot: which you can find at /sys/devices/platform/s3c2410-i2c/i2c-adapter/i2c-0/0-0008 Sep 04 02:34:39 ah Sep 04 02:34:45 wtf... error in svn-checkout Sep 04 02:35:04 http://pastebin.com/m3ed69c4e :(( Sep 04 02:35:07 same directory Sep 04 02:35:14 after a clobber-openmoko.. Sep 04 02:35:56 riot: well, now that's a wtf... Sep 04 02:36:26 riot: are you on an overly deep directory hierarchy? it's the only cause (other than random fs/kernel/hardware issues) I can think of Sep 04 02:36:38 oh, its not that shallow, nope Sep 04 02:36:42 shall i try a symlink? Sep 04 02:36:57 root is 4 levels upwards Sep 04 02:37:06 riot: 4 levels aren't that much Sep 04 02:37:10 Symlinks don't work in a oe structure. Sep 04 02:37:12 ack Sep 04 02:37:52 * cesarb has either 3 levels or 5 levels, depending if you were following the physical view or the symlink from $HOME Sep 04 02:37:53 mwester: uh, yes i already saw that.. plus vfat is not a good place to store oe, neither.. Sep 04 02:38:11 vfat - yeah, not good... :) Sep 04 02:38:23 riot: I don't expect things to work well on vfat Sep 04 02:38:30 the file is there Sep 04 02:38:30 riot: you will get strange build failures Sep 04 02:38:49 riot: since parts of the build will be expecting posix semantics Sep 04 02:38:53 cesarb: yes, had some of them.. first one was "could not exec" though, so i thought, vfat might be bad. Sep 04 02:39:12 still that file svn tried to copy is perfectly existent.. Sep 04 02:39:20 oi.. wtf!!! Sep 04 02:39:25 lrwxr-xr-x 1 riot riot 1 Sep 4 04:34 icons.tmp.tmp -> . Sep 04 02:40:02 something here is seriously b0rked Sep 04 02:40:58 * cesarb was looking at the pcf50606 driver and already found a busy loop without cpu_relax() Sep 04 02:41:11 (but perhaps cpu_relax() is a nop on arm...) Sep 04 02:41:37 :( no go. svn seems to be broken either remote or local.. Sep 04 02:42:09 yeah, cpu_relax() is just barrier() on arm **** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Sep 04 02:59:56 2007