**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Sep 05 02:59:56 2007
Sep 05 03:06:07 <technil> Has anyone mentioned a libelf_0.8.6.bb error in a snapshot openmoko-devel-image build for today?
Sep 05 03:07:37 <cesarb> technil: I'm failing on binutils-cross-2.18-r0, do not know if it's related
Sep 05 03:13:23 <mentax> hi all
Sep 05 03:14:31 <mentax> where i may get last  image? I not may find it
Sep 05 03:31:15 <abraxa_> * LaF0rge has quit ("today is a black day in the project") <~ I wonder if that means anything
Sep 05 03:33:27 <mentax> where i may get last  image? I not may find it
Sep 05 03:36:42 <technil> mentax: try http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Repositories
Sep 05 03:36:52 <cesarb> http://www.vanille-media.de/images/psplash-on-gta02v1.jpg <- photo of a real GTA02?
Sep 05 03:37:13 <cesarb> It looks...
Sep 05 03:37:18 <cesarb> The same as a GTA01 :P
Sep 05 03:37:39 <skyfaller> hey folks... I'm considering getting a Neo 1973 consumer model when it comes out, but my friends are telling me that it will only do GPRS, and that that's even slower than the iPhone's EDGE...
Sep 05 03:37:41 <technil> mentax: also this may help http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Phase_1_Software_Testing
Sep 05 03:38:19 <skyfaller> will there be any way to upgrade the phone to a faster network later?
Sep 05 03:38:19 <aloril> skyfaller: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (and also SH1, SH1_FAQ, Neo1973, Developer_preview and Neo1973_Hardware#GTA01Bv4 pages) (Hopefully these links answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.)
Sep 05 03:38:45 <abraxa_> skyfaller: Yes, it'll only do GPRS for now - phones with faster network tech will come out in '08
Sep 05 03:38:52 <abraxa_> And no, you can't upgrade it
Sep 05 03:39:45 <skyfaller> abraxa_: ah, thank you... that's kind of sad
Sep 05 03:40:02 <abraxa_> skyfaller: Not really, I think people just expect too much at this point in time
Sep 05 03:40:43 <abraxa_> This is a product driven by ideology, not consumer demands
Sep 05 03:40:56 <abraxa_> For now, that is
Sep 05 03:41:37 <skyfaller> makes sense... is the 3G delay b/c there isn't good... open hardware for it right now?
Sep 05 03:42:02 <abraxa_> I would suppose so
Sep 05 03:52:04 <aloril> (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[OpenMoko:Community_Portal]]
Sep 05 04:16:00 <CM> *sigh* Why is this uic3 thing not fixed yet?
Sep 05 04:22:41 <abraxa_> CM: uic3?
Sep 05 04:23:53 <technil> CM: do you mean uicmoc4-native_4.3.1.bb Bug #747 http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=747
Sep 05 04:25:45 <technil> CM: I'm pretty sure there are solutions on that bugzilla page
Sep 05 04:28:51 <CM> technil: Yes, I mean it, and I know how to get around it
Sep 05 04:29:27 <CM> But I have no clue why adding QT += network to that tools uic3.pro works
Sep 05 04:29:36 <CM> And it's been broken for quite a while
Sep 05 04:29:43 * CM goes back to breakfast :)
Sep 05 04:29:51 <CM> technil: thanks anyway 
Sep 05 04:32:41 * aloril too wonders what this means 'LaF0rge has quit ("today is a black day in the project")'
Sep 05 04:33:10 <bedboi> ahaahah
Sep 05 04:33:26 <bedboi> i guess LaF0rge is quite pessimistic
Sep 05 04:53:47 <CM> aloril: Hmm.. Maybe GTA02 is delayed further?
Sep 05 04:54:23 <aloril> CM: yeah, hopefully nothing more 'serious'
Sep 05 04:54:51 <CM> *nod*
Sep 05 04:55:10 <ckuethe> "duh"
Sep 05 04:56:30 <mkrufky> is there any openmoko phone that verizon wireless carries?
Sep 05 04:56:30 <aloril> Currently sold Neo1973 GTA01B_v04 (P1) doesn't have WiFi, GTA02 (P2) which is scheduled for October will have WiFi with free (libre) drivers (Atheros AR6K): http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973  http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ#Q:_What_is_the_rationale_behind_the_exclusion_of_WiFi.3F
Sep 05 04:56:51 <blindcoder> moin
Sep 05 05:10:43 <don-o> i think i can get my hands on a P0
Sep 05 05:10:58 <don-o> whee.
Sep 05 05:11:36 <don-o> CM: what laf0rge news are you referring to?
Sep 05 05:20:23 <hifolk> Hi all,
Sep 05 05:20:45 <hifolk> When is the Neo 1973 Pahse 2 releasing??
Sep 05 05:20:45 <aloril> hifolk: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (and also SH1, SH1_FAQ, Neo1973, Developer_preview and Neo1973_Hardware#GTA01Bv4 pages) (Hopefully these links answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.)
Sep 05 05:27:12 <doc|home> "There will also be 5 more OpenMoko devices - some not phones in the traditional sense - announced by FIC in September" that's news to me
Sep 05 05:27:17 * doc|home hadn't seen that before
Sep 05 05:31:55 <CM> don-o: aloril and me were referring to: 04:35 -!- LaF0rge [n=laforge@rd.tw.openmoko.org] has quit ["today is a black day in the project"]
Sep 05 06:06:01 <aloril> doc|home: where did you read that? (I remember seeing only 3 and no announcement in September)
Sep 05 06:08:07 <doc|home> aloril: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ#Q:_What_can_we_expect_in_future_versions.3F
Sep 05 06:08:24 <doc|home> of course it's a wiki, so may be inaccurate
Sep 05 06:10:41 <CM> doc|home: I remember that rumour too
Sep 05 06:11:02 <doc|home> CM: looks like these might be interesting times :)
Sep 05 06:11:10 <doc|home> I hope they come sooner rather than later, whatever they are
Sep 05 06:11:31 <CM> Heh, well, so far everything is later than late. ;)
Sep 05 06:13:40 <notserpe> man there is a serious air of negativity lately.
Sep 05 06:16:30 <CM> notserpe: Some positive too I think. Finally calling is starting to work :D
Sep 05 06:18:00 <notserpe> I'm just glad that qt/opia thread died on the list.
Sep 05 06:19:34 <doc|home> that calling is starting to work and sale of GTA02 devices was supposed (although probably not going) to happen next month is a bit disconcerting :/
Sep 05 06:22:49 <folken> openmoko-mediaplayer2 almost works. :)
Sep 05 06:22:57 <folken> but you'll have to write your own playlist in xml. 
Sep 05 06:23:26 <zash_se> xml? for a playlist?
Sep 05 06:24:18 <folken> zash_se: yes: http://www.xspf.org/quickstart/
Sep 05 06:24:45 <folken> zash_se: its easy to read and easy to write. 
Sep 05 06:29:25 <ScaredyCat> meep
Sep 05 06:32:08 <MMN-o> What's the point with a giant XML overhead for something as simple as a playlist?
Sep 05 06:32:19 <cw666> when gsm is powered down (sorta) serial console is enabled which doesn't actually work
Sep 05 06:32:23 <cw666> is anyone else seeing this?
Sep 05 06:32:46 <cw666> i use echo 0 > /sys/bus/platform/devices/gta01-pm-gsm.0/power_on, etc. to reset the AT command intepreter when gsm hangs
Sep 05 06:33:30 <cw666> but doing do breaks networking and changing it back doesnt seem to help
Sep 05 06:33:53 <abraxa_> MMN-o: http://xspf.org/xspf-v1.html#rfc.section.3.3 is one of the main reasons
Sep 05 06:34:03 <folken> MMN-o: because people want to include meta data, playlists that aren't local... 
Sep 05 06:34:56 <ScaredyCat> that's a lame excuse abraxa_
Sep 05 06:35:33 <zash_se> folken: metadata, thats what id3-tags ar for
Sep 05 06:35:33 <ScaredyCat> folken's is better, but it's still pointless on an embedded device.
Sep 05 06:35:59 <MMN-o> folken: metadata should be in the files themselves
Sep 05 06:35:59 <ScaredyCat> zash_se: that only works with mp3's
Sep 05 06:36:09 <MMN-o> Like ID3 tags for MP3 or similar for other files
Sep 05 06:36:17 <ScaredyCat> if the filetype doesn't support it...
Sep 05 06:36:22 <folken> MMN-o: metadata such as author of the playlist. 
Sep 05 06:36:33 <zash_se> what mediafile dosent support metadata?
Sep 05 06:36:34 <MMN-o> Then you'd only get the metadata with the playlist anyway, ScaredyCat
Sep 05 06:36:40 <MMN-o> zash_se: wav? :)
Sep 05 06:37:07 <MMN-o> folken: Touché.
Sep 05 06:37:11 <ScaredyCat> .au, .raw, .gsm....
Sep 05 06:37:29 <folken> plus.. when i load an aribtuary mp3 collection in some media player.. 10-15% of the meta data is broken. 
Sep 05 06:37:37 <zash_se> container-formats ala .avi/.ogg etc?
Sep 05 06:37:49 <folken> especially encodings. ID3 tags that are actually ID2 and vice a versa. 
Sep 05 06:37:49 <MMN-o> I wouldn't say that arbitrary playlist files would be any better.
Sep 05 06:37:59 <ScaredyCat> most players understand the m3u formats...
Sep 05 06:38:15 <abraxa_> ScaredyCat, zash: The main point for me to use XSPF was shareability/the content resolver indeed. Imagine you have a media server at home whose files are mounted at different points in the file system on the PC and the Neo - both can still find and play the data from the meta data XSPF stores
Sep 05 06:38:54 <ScaredyCat> use upnp ...
Sep 05 06:38:56 <folken> ScaredyCat: XMMS doesn't understand pls for example. 
Sep 05 06:39:05 <MMN-o> abraxa_: Ok, I'm gonna start reading about XSPF, but does it actually have any other way to store that than ordinary relative paths?
Sep 05 06:39:36 <abraxa_> ScaredyCat: UPnP doesn't help you if the file names differ from what I know
Sep 05 06:39:52 <ScaredyCat> it presents the data to the client..
Sep 05 06:40:02 <ScaredyCat> (admititly it uses xml too)
Sep 05 06:40:05 <abraxa_> MMN-o: What do you mean by "store that"?
Sep 05 06:40:09 <MMN-o> The only benefit I see from using an XML playlist is that you can specify character encoding.
Sep 05 06:40:16 <ScaredyCat> ~spell admitidly
Sep 05 06:40:19 <apt> possible spellings for admitidly: admit idly admit-idly admittedly admitted animatedly adamantly
Sep 05 06:40:45 <MMN-o> abraxa_: As in, how does it save the paths in a better format than m3u? For transferability?
Sep 05 06:41:03 <MMN-o> Remembering that only insane people, or crap software, store absolute paths.
Sep 05 06:41:29 <ScaredyCat> /sbin/ifconfig
Sep 05 06:41:29 <abraxa_> MMN-o: Every track in the list can have one or more URLs (file://, http:// etc.) associated with it, along with meta data
Sep 05 06:41:56 <ScaredyCat> the thing is, how relavant is that on the neo...
Sep 05 06:42:18 <ScaredyCat> it's a low powered device..
Sep 05 06:42:21 <MMN-o> Exactly, ScaredyCat 
Sep 05 06:42:27 <abraxa_> To you.
Sep 05 06:42:43 <MMN-o> Is it necessary to use the XML overhead?
Sep 05 06:43:09 <ScaredyCat> what you're also asking people to do is change all their playlists to another format.. 
Sep 05 06:43:27 <ScaredyCat> or at least have them in both
Sep 05 06:43:28 <abraxa_> No but the overhead is so small that I don't see how it would be a problem - it only has an effect when loading or saving a playlist
Sep 05 06:43:34 <MMN-o> That wouldn't be a bad idea, since M3U in general sucks.
Sep 05 06:43:56 <ScaredyCat> it might suck, but it's the standard
Sep 05 06:44:02 <abraxa_> ScaredyCat: The player will be able to import M3U, too, of course
Sep 05 06:44:07 <MMN-o> It's the varying standard. :)
Sep 05 06:44:19 <ScaredyCat> that's not so bad abraxa_... 
Sep 05 06:44:34 <ScaredyCat> now make it scan the entire path and generate the xml too :P
Sep 05 06:44:54 <abraxa_> Matter of fact that's what I'm working on right now ;)
Sep 05 06:45:00 <ScaredyCat> actually, a helper app would help
Sep 05 06:45:02 <ScaredyCat> hehe
Sep 05 06:45:24 <abraxa_> Well the player will allow you to edit the playlists so the format will be transparent anyway
Sep 05 06:45:42 <ScaredyCat> but i still thein there's more of an overhead parsing an xml file than just reading a line for a file
Sep 05 06:45:46 <ScaredyCat> think
Sep 05 06:46:00 <ScaredyCat> and on a low powered device it matters
Sep 05 06:46:30 <MMN-o> Well, support for more formats is always beneficial. I'll just keep storing relative paths in a text file.
Sep 05 06:47:03 <MMN-o> However, I wonder if it's such a good idea to use xspf as a default format.
Sep 05 06:47:05 <notserpe> any guesses about "the black day"
Sep 05 06:47:37 <ScaredyCat> it's cloudy?
Sep 05 06:48:15 <abraxa_> ScaredyCat: I see what you mean - if performance becomes an issue I can still switch but unless this becomes a serious issue I probably won't
Sep 05 06:48:16 <spamhead> Well put Scaredycat :D
Sep 05 06:51:52 <CM> Heh, song length, in milliseconds
Sep 05 06:52:06 <MMN-o> Only a hint apparently. :)
Sep 05 06:52:10 <CM> I can't say I know the length of my songs in milliseconds
Sep 05 06:52:26 <ScaredyCat> you will soon :P
Sep 05 06:52:38 <CM> ScaredyCat: Hehe :P
Sep 05 06:53:17 * ScaredyCat estimates build completion in T - 03:34:00
Sep 05 06:53:37 <CM> Well, I guess the playlist will be just a list of tracks anyway, and the info from the id3-tags
Sep 05 06:54:01 <spamhead> ohh crap I thought this room was an open source OS for motorola, I read OpenMOTO my bad
Sep 05 06:54:15 <ScaredyCat> heheheh
Sep 05 06:54:45 <Psi_> heh
Sep 05 06:54:50 <CM> spamhead: Well, they have gotten OpenMoko to run on some motorola phones
Sep 05 06:54:52 <zash_se> didnt someone get openmoko to run on some motorola?
Sep 05 06:54:58 <zash_se> :D
Sep 05 06:55:06 <ScaredyCat> what they said ^^
Sep 05 06:55:39 <ScaredyCat> although, why they did it is a bigger question :)
Sep 05 06:55:39 <Hopscotch> good morning
Sep 05 06:55:52 <CM> spamhead: Look at the second pic: http://www.vanille-media.de/site/index.php/2007/09/04/openmoko-and-openezx-at-mobile-developer-days-2007/
Sep 05 06:56:49 <spamhead> WTH!!! Openmoko is a open source phone?!?!?  That's incredible!
Sep 05 06:56:49 <aloril> spamhead: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (and also SH1, SH1_FAQ, Neo1973, Developer_preview and Neo1973_Hardware#GTA01Bv4 pages) (Hopefully these links answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.)
Sep 05 06:57:13 * CM helps spamhead out from under the rock
Sep 05 06:57:26 <ScaredyCat> "It is our goal to release an OpenEZX preview image before the end of September" .... i wish they'd get their priorities right
Sep 05 06:57:42 <spamhead> Thanks CM, I don't know everything, but I do know a lot about what I know
Sep 05 06:58:09 <CM> spamhead: I know barely anything about mostly everything, so I guess we're a good match. ;)
Sep 05 06:58:52 <ScaredyCat> get a room you two
Sep 05 06:58:55 <spamhead> *LOL*
Sep 05 07:00:12 <spamhead> So lets move to San Francisco and raise Orchids ;)
Sep 05 07:00:25 * CM is on
Sep 05 07:02:05 <spamhead> I guess openmoko doesn't have much need for a C# developer then
Sep 05 07:07:56 <spamhead> Okay all it's 2AM here I need to pretend to care about my job so I'm going to sleep
Sep 05 07:07:58 <spamhead> later haters!
Sep 05 07:10:28 <ScaredyCat> ppffff....
Sep 05 07:10:38 <ScaredyCat> it needs all the developers it can get
Sep 05 07:34:43 <ScaredyCat> CM : did you build get past that again ?
Sep 05 08:14:16 <ScaredyCat> errm
Sep 05 08:16:21 <Richard> hi
Sep 05 08:22:56 <CM> ScaredyCat: Yes, worked fine once I got past that uic3 thing
Sep 05 08:23:12 <CM> NOTE: build 200709050615: completed
Sep 05 08:41:41 <CIA-23> openmoko: 03laforge * r2912 10/trunk/src/target/kernel/patches/ (series yaffs2-20070304.patch yaffs2-20070905.patch): update to more recent yaffs2 snapshot
Sep 05 09:04:22 <ScaredyCat> "Recipe format - Read about the .bb file format and variables used by OpenEmbedded."
Sep 05 09:04:36 <ScaredyCat> http://www.openembedded.org/wiki/Bbfile
Sep 05 09:04:48 <ScaredyCat> and they wonder why we get it 'all wrong'
Sep 05 09:05:29 <Stephmw> haha
Sep 05 09:06:33 <XorA> ScaredyCat: sounds like http://www.openembedded.org/wiki/StyleGuide needs adapted for non devs
Sep 05 09:08:06 <ScaredyCat> that sould be copied to the bb file one
Sep 05 09:09:07 <ScaredyCat> doing the simplest thing like adding a single file to the image seems like a hellish process
Sep 05 09:16:31 <CM> me right now: http://www.explosm.net/db/files/Comics/Rob/caffeine.png
Sep 05 09:16:47 <zedstar> for testing stuff i just copy the file/ipk to the neo rather than mess about with new images... i have not tried to get networking working on QEMU though
Sep 05 09:17:02 <zedstar> anyone get networking with QEMU running?
Sep 05 09:37:34 <mdt_> qemu does not compile (http://nopaste.com/p/al7g02rXv) someone a idea what's wrong?
Sep 05 09:42:54 <lick_me_f> http://vans.tbc.bg/uploaded
Sep 05 09:53:06 <aloril> (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[User:ChrisLord]]
Sep 05 09:53:12 <emdete> qemu does not compile (http://nopaste.com/p/al7g02rXv) - someone an idea what's wrong?
Sep 05 10:01:55 * rwhitby completes a "make all" on xubuntu 7.04 32 bit
Sep 05 10:02:58 <Stephmw> rwhitby: we need to start logging build times across different machines/distros :)
Sep 05 10:08:30 <MrWGW> I'm really tempted to get the full development kit version of the phone...that looks like it would be a lot of fun
Sep 05 10:08:40 <MrWGW> has anyone, at this early stage, had any success getting the phone to run on AT&T?
Sep 05 10:08:46 <MrWGW> which is the network I'm contractually bound to :(
Sep 05 10:08:56 <MrWGW> (GSM, at the very least)
Sep 05 10:09:39 <XorA> MrWGW: AT&T 3g sims are currently causing problems, see bug #666
Sep 05 10:10:10 <tuukkah> i also heard something about 850MHz not working in the neo, is that true?
Sep 05 10:10:30 <XorA> I think no-one has tried due to above problem
Sep 05 10:10:39 <XorA> cant get onto the network unless the SIM works
Sep 05 10:10:45 <ynezz> !ombug 666
Sep 05 10:10:47 <cdbot2> * * Bug 666, Status: NEW, Created: Unknown
Sep 05 10:10:48 <cdbot2> * * steven.demetrius(AT)fiwwi.com: 3G SIM capability
Sep 05 10:10:48 <tuukkah> no-one has 2g sim?
Sep 05 10:10:48 <rwhitby> there have been no reports of it working, and multiple reports of it not working, and no official word from FIC/OpenMoko Inc.
Sep 05 10:10:48 <cdbot2> * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=666
Sep 05 10:10:52 <MrWGW> hmm yeah
Sep 05 10:10:55 <MrWGW> that figures
Sep 05 10:10:57 <MrWGW> :-P
Sep 05 10:11:13 <MrWGW> but it does run on T Mobile?
Sep 05 10:11:20 <XorA> runs on t-mobile UK
Sep 05 10:11:28 <rwhitby> (my response was to 850MHz, not to AT&T question)
Sep 05 10:11:29 <MrWGW> T Mobile UK is a tad different from the US one
Sep 05 10:11:39 <MrWGW> I used to use T Mobile in the US and was unable to get my phone to run at all on the UK network
Sep 05 10:11:52 <MrWGW> I hate T Mobile anyway...well actually, I really hate all the cellphone providers
Sep 05 10:11:58 <MrWGW> they all suck, completely and in every way
Sep 05 10:12:52 * XorA has no problems with UK ones
Sep 05 10:12:57 <grasu> I also tought my sim was not working ... I had to but some paper between it and the battery
Sep 05 10:13:13 <rwhitby> I've been happy with all three providers that I've used in Australia.  They were all pretty much equally expensive, but the always provided the functionality they advertised, and I've had no problems in US, UK, Asia with any of the three.
Sep 05 10:13:20 <grasu> otherwise it had no contact
Sep 05 10:13:48 <MrWGW> I think the problem is probably more with US providers than anything else
Sep 05 10:13:55 <MrWGW> the mergers that occured in 2005 made a bad situation worse
Sep 05 10:14:00 <MrWGW> in 2004-2005
Sep 05 10:14:23 <MrWGW> is there still going to be a "second stage" release in October?   
Sep 05 10:14:28 <rwhitby> That, and the US not really understanding the "global" part of GSM.
Sep 05 10:14:41 <MrWGW> what I'm really most interested in getting is that cool hardcase with all the hacking tools etc
Sep 05 10:15:05 <MrWGW> well Verizon and Sprint invested so much in CDMA that the decision to stick with it is understandable, if somewhat annoying
Sep 05 10:16:13 <tuukkah> MrWGW, don't care about your contract, get a new one for another operator if that's what it takes for you to use the neo :-)
Sep 05 10:16:54 <MrWGW> I probably will, but T Mobile is seriously pathetic in the US
Sep 05 10:17:12 <MrWGW> the big question is whether or not that SIM card bug is fixable
Sep 05 10:17:46 <MrWGW> the other big reason why I'm interested in this phone is that my Motorola RAZR likes to fail (requiring a warranty replacement) every three weeks...I'm on my fourth one now...it would be nice to have a backup :-P
Sep 05 10:17:51 <tuukkah> there's a comment at #666 that it's something for the gsm chip manufacturer to report back on
Sep 05 10:18:06 <MrWGW> ominous bug number at any rate
Sep 05 10:19:11 <ScaredyCat> rwhitby: ... I meant to ask
Sep 05 10:19:28 <MrWGW> hmm looks some ATT sim cards work
Sep 05 10:19:32 <MrWGW> just probably not the one in my phone :-P
Sep 05 10:19:43 <ScaredyCat> if you're installing openssh ... wtf are you keeping dropbear for ?
Sep 05 10:19:56 <MrWGW> that said, I suppose I could get a prepaid sim card for running the OpenMoko on until the compatibility problem is fixed
Sep 05 10:20:20 <tuukkah> there are some positive reports too here: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Carriers/ATT
Sep 05 10:20:55 <MrWGW> heck, I could get a prepaid T Mobile SIM card for running the unit on until the AT&T problem is fixed
Sep 05 10:21:23 <XorA> MrWGW: see if there is a Neo user near you
Sep 05 10:22:12 <MrWGW> weird...my card isn't on the list
Sep 05 10:22:18 <MrWGW> its a 64295G
Sep 05 10:22:47 <MrWGW> how would I do that XorA?
Sep 05 10:24:42 <Stephmw> wear an OpenMoko tshirt and parade around your neighbourhood for a few weeks
Sep 05 10:24:48 <MrWGW> hahaha
Sep 05 10:25:04 <ScaredyCat> hehe
Sep 05 10:25:08 <MrWGW> I'm a member of the local LUG but I know for a fact no one's using the OpenMoko
Sep 05 10:25:13 <MrWGW> people are a tad afraid of it not working
Sep 05 10:26:21 <MrWGW> anyway, thanks for your help...I'm definitely going to order one, probably in a month or two
Sep 05 10:26:24 <MrWGW> bye
Sep 05 10:26:28 <XorA> MrWGW: there is a wiki page with people listed
Sep 05 10:28:00 <ScaredyCat> they shouldn't be afraid of it not working, it doesn't, well not as a proper phone ;)
Sep 05 10:34:10 <tuukkah> can i get a serial console login via usb somehow?
Sep 05 10:34:38 <ScaredyCat> tuukkah: ssh to the phone
Sep 05 10:34:50 <ScaredyCat> do you have usb networking setup ?
Sep 05 10:35:05 <tuukkah> ScaredyCat, the boot hangs before the network interface is brought up :-(
Sep 05 10:40:35 <tuukkah> i was thinking if there was a way to not change from ACM to CDC
Sep 05 10:45:43 <tuukkah> what about instructions on what to put on the sd card to be able to boot from that?
Sep 05 10:48:23 <tuukkah> found them: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Booting_from_SD
Sep 05 11:25:42 <white_gecko> hello
Sep 05 11:25:53 <white_gecko> now i have openmoko in qemu running
Sep 05 11:25:59 <CM> :)
Sep 05 11:26:08 <white_gecko> an realy I god it to open a terminal emulation
Sep 05 11:26:28 <white_gecko> and i know the command xtscal
Sep 05 11:26:59 <white_gecko> i have to use it to get the poiterreaction in the right way
Sep 05 11:27:10 <white_gecko> but how can i get a keyboard?
Sep 05 11:27:27 <CM> white_gecko: Is it in 2007.2?
Sep 05 11:27:36 <white_gecko> and how to use it in 90° rotation of the pointerinput to the screen
Sep 05 11:27:43 <white_gecko> yes 2007.2
Sep 05 11:27:45 <CM> Start the Input Manager in the "All list"
Sep 05 11:27:53 <white_gecko> aha
Sep 05 11:28:00 <white_gecko> and how to get there?
Sep 05 11:28:16 <CM> It's the middle tab, where all programs are
Sep 05 11:30:38 <white_gecko> no
Sep 05 11:30:38 <CM> ~seen cb22
Sep 05 11:30:41 <apt> cb22 <n=cb22@dsl-245-145-221.telkomadsl.co.za> was last seen on IRC in channel #openmoko, 18h 33m 40s ago, saying: 'do you think abiword would run ok on the neo?'.
Sep 05 11:31:00 <CM> white_gecko: no?
Sep 05 11:31:51 <rwhitby> white_gecko: change "Applications" to "All"
Sep 05 11:32:17 <pavelm> Hello, everyone!
Sep 05 11:32:38 <pavelm> I should do talk on openmoko, next week...
Sep 05 11:32:57 <pavelm> ...and I guess I should install some reasonable/latest version.
Sep 05 11:33:12 <pavelm> Is there something newer than http://buildhost.openmoko.org/snapshots/2007.08/images/ ?
Sep 05 11:33:20 <white_gecko> CM: this is, what i see: http://comiles.eu/~natanael/omoko/omoko13.png
Sep 05 11:35:31 <kayon> On a ipkg update on the Neo I'm starting to see  http 404's ( Not Found) 
Sep 05 11:35:37 <kayon> on http://buildhost.openmoko.org/OM2007.2/tmp/deploy/glibc/ipk/armv4t/Packages.gz.
Sep 05 11:35:48 <kayon> Have I missed some change info somewhere?
Sep 05 11:36:02 <rwhitby> pavelm: I start from 2007.08, and the ipkg upgrade
Sep 05 11:36:11 <rwhitby> s/the/then/
Sep 05 11:36:11 <apt> rwhitby meant: pavelm: I start from 2007.08, and then ipkg upgrade
Sep 05 11:37:05 <pavelm> rwhitby: I'm not sure I have networking in usable-enough state, but I guess I should try that.
Sep 05 11:37:48 <yoyo> hi all
Sep 05 11:38:25 <pavelm> I got pygps to work, lately, and now I'm actually using openmoko as a GPS... with build-in maps, too.
Sep 05 11:38:29 <rwhitby> pavelm: although I haven't tried ipkg upgrade since all the srcrev changes of the last few days
Sep 05 11:39:06 <pavelm> rwitby: There used to be half-weekly snapshots on buildhost, but that directory is now gone :-(
Sep 05 11:39:07 <CIA-23> openmoko: 03thomas * r2913 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-today2/ (ChangeLog libtaku/taku-launcher-tile.c src/today-launcher.c): 
Sep 05 11:39:07 <CIA-23> openmoko: * libtaku/taku-launcher-tile.c: (taku_launcher_tile_class_init): Update with
Sep 05 11:39:07 <CIA-23> openmoko: changes in r1644 of upstream (matchbox-desktop-2: Rename TakuIcon icon size to
Sep 05 11:39:07 <CIA-23> openmoko: taku-icon, to match GTK+.)
Sep 05 11:39:07 <CIA-23> openmoko: * src/today-launcher.c: (today_launcher_page_create): Update for above changes
Sep 05 11:43:20 <CM> white_gecko: Ah, change to "Today" by pressing the upper left corner (menubar)
Sep 05 11:44:15 <CM> white_gecko: You should be able to get something like this: http://scap.linuxtogo.org/files/03ab1f5b4f7aa041d1d7791943eeb2ec.png
Sep 05 11:44:48 <CM> white_gecko: But set it to "all", or you'll get the calculator instead of the input manager
Sep 05 11:45:42 <rwhitby> kayon: looks like the OM autobuilder is broken
Sep 05 11:45:45 <SpeedEvil> Ok - we have A, S, what about L?
Sep 05 11:46:18 <white_gecko> CM: ok
Sep 05 11:51:13 <CM> cb22: About Abiword, just noticed this one week old screenshot: http://scap.linuxtogo.org/files/34dadfa8a954df30e243bb1862f3a856.png
Sep 05 11:51:25 <white_gecko> CM: now i have this http://comiles.eu/~natanael/omoko/omoko14.png
Sep 05 11:51:32 <cb22> ooh, nice CM 
Sep 05 11:51:48 <CM> white_gecko: No png there yet
Sep 05 11:51:50 <white_gecko> it is very difficult to press the right area
Sep 05 11:52:05 <white_gecko> now
Sep 05 11:52:18 <aloril> (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[User:ChrisLord]] [[Providers]] [[Provider]] [[GSM]] [[Operators]] [[Operator]] [[Carrier]]
Sep 05 11:52:32 <CM> white_gecko: Good. Just start it, but be careful to only start one
Sep 05 11:52:57 <CM> You'll get the standard white box up in the middle
Sep 05 11:52:59 <white_gecko> ok do i have to start it with a single click or with a double click?
Sep 05 11:53:19 <CM> white_gecko: I've only tried on the real neo, and there I need two
Sep 05 11:53:34 <white_gecko> does it matter whete to click on this line?
Sep 05 11:53:49 <CM> Not afaik
Sep 05 11:53:58 <white_gecko> icon or text
Sep 05 11:53:59 <white_gecko> ok
Sep 05 11:55:32 <white_gecko> its orange now
Sep 05 11:55:38 <white_gecko> but there is no white box
Sep 05 11:56:33 <CM> Maybe you have to change to All
Sep 05 11:56:37 <CM> To see the complete list
Sep 05 11:56:46 <CM> Been something weird with that application list
Sep 05 11:57:21 <CM> white_gecko: I mean select All from that drop down next to Utilites
Sep 05 11:58:44 <white_gecko> hm
Sep 05 11:58:58 <white_gecko> but now i have mines running ;-)
Sep 05 11:59:58 <white_gecko> now im back in all
Sep 05 12:00:09 <white_gecko> and its orange again
Sep 05 12:00:17 <white_gecko> but i cant start it with double click
Sep 05 12:00:26 <SpeedEvil> Try right clicking.
Sep 05 12:00:34 <SpeedEvil> Put the stylus in the other hand :)
Sep 05 12:04:21 <white_gecko> lol
Sep 05 12:04:29 <white_gecko> right click is also nothning
Sep 05 12:06:18 <white_gecko> no i'm here: http://comiles.eu/~natanael/omoko/omoko15.png
Sep 05 12:10:19 <white_gecko> CM: are you shure there has to be a white box?
Sep 05 12:16:11 <alphaone> white_gecko: stefan_schmidt will fix that real soon (tm)
Sep 05 12:16:20 <alphaone> (i.e. on his next commit)
Sep 05 12:16:25 <CM> :D
Sep 05 12:16:48 <CM> white_gecko: Well, at least now you have Input manager selected, but it's not started
Sep 05 12:16:50 * stefan_schmidt needs to hurry up now
Sep 05 12:17:23 * CM hands stefan_schmidt a double espresso
Sep 05 12:23:48 <emdete> i can't currently build with mokomakefile... any hints?
Sep 05 12:24:51 <pavelm> bye
Sep 05 12:24:58 <CM> emdete: Depends on what's wrong. Show it in pastebin.ca
Sep 05 12:25:10 <CM> pavelm: Good luck with the presentation :)
Sep 05 12:25:21 <pavelm> CM: nothing should go wrong :-)
Sep 05 12:26:19 <emdete> CM: http://nopaste.com/p/al7g02rXv
Sep 05 12:26:57 <slux> hello
Sep 05 12:27:19 <slux> i've a problem with the emulating of openmoko with qemu
Sep 05 12:27:33 <slux> hao cai i set the correct coordinates of the cursor?
Sep 05 12:27:42 <slux> it seems uncalibrated :\
Sep 05 12:27:47 <slux> *how
Sep 05 12:28:40 <ScaredyCat> remove /etc/pointercal and run xtscal ?
Sep 05 12:29:02 <slux> from the guest machine? (openmoko?)
Sep 05 12:29:16 <slux> or my linux box?
Sep 05 12:29:18 <ScaredyCat> in quemu
Sep 05 12:29:23 <slux> how? :\
Sep 05 12:29:25 <ScaredyCat> qemu
Sep 05 12:29:38 <ScaredyCat> ssh into it?
Sep 05 12:29:44 <slux> :O
Sep 05 12:29:46 <slux> i try
Sep 05 12:30:03 <slux> emm..
Sep 05 12:30:11 <emdete> CM: any idea?
Sep 05 12:30:13 <slux> what address? :\
Sep 05 12:30:28 <yoyo> 192.168.0.202
Sep 05 12:31:44 <white_gecko> stefan_schmidt: thank you il be patient (T)
Sep 05 12:31:50 <white_gecko> no not (T)
Sep 05 12:31:52 <white_gecko> (Y)
Sep 05 12:32:05 <white_gecko> *THUMPS UP*
Sep 05 12:32:46 <stefan_schmidt> CM: Patch for a nicer keyboard applet is now in newest OE.dev
Sep 05 12:33:10 <ScaredyCat> ~lart stefan_schmidt
Sep 05 12:33:10 * apt takes out a cattle prod and gives stefan_schmidt a good jolt
Sep 05 12:33:32 <ScaredyCat> 7/8 's through a build :
Sep 05 12:34:25 <stefan_schmidt> ScaredyCat: eh? After you are done you just need to rebuild the single package...
Sep 05 12:34:53 <ScaredyCat> I know.. but it's a pita because of whatever else might be broken
Sep 05 12:35:23 <ScaredyCat> wtf is  libmupflap ?
Sep 05 12:35:27 <ScaredyCat> wtf is  libmudflap ?
Sep 05 12:36:21 <zash_se> WTF?
Sep 05 12:36:39 <zash_se> htf names things?
Sep 05 12:37:40 <white_gecko> oh how can I shut down the openmoko?
Sep 05 12:37:48 <tuukkah> why does the phone sometimes boot when i plug the usb cable? is it meant to be usb storage mode?
Sep 05 12:39:55 <mortenlysgaard> Hmm.. got this problem with svn. I get: "Permission denied (publickey). svn: Connection closed unexpectedly" Even though i'm quite certain i'm doing things rigth :S Anyone migth know whats wrong?
Sep 05 12:40:00 <white_gecko> can i just close th qemu
Sep 05 12:40:43 <zash_se> white_gecko: shutdown -P now
Sep 05 12:40:48 <mortenlysgaard> white_gecko, I don't know but i would shut the "neo" down first
Sep 05 12:41:02 <mickeyl> anyone with a current snapshot online?
Sep 05 12:41:06 <white_gecko> hm but without keyboard?
Sep 05 12:41:25 <white_gecko> how do I connect my computer keyboard to the qemu?
Sep 05 12:41:58 <mortenlysgaard> Issn't it a command line arg?
Sep 05 12:42:29 <tuukkah> hmm, was qemu -usb enough
Sep 05 12:42:35 <white_gecko> i've used -usb on startup but my keyboard doesn't take any effect
Sep 05 12:43:53 <CM> emdete: Sorry, I'm at work so I'm busy at times
Sep 05 12:44:06 <mortenlysgaard> white_gecko, try with a -keyboard
Sep 05 12:45:08 <emdete> CM: no problem. me too. i just wonder why nobody else has this kind of error. i rebuilded everything (make clobber)...
Sep 05 12:45:19 <CM> emdete: Not sure, but I I think I've heard some people having problems with i686-linux. i486 worked. It's somewhere in bugzilla, either openmokos or openembeddeds
Sep 05 12:45:40 <white_gecko> okey but first i have to close the existing qemu
Sep 05 12:46:48 <white_gecko> mortenlysgaard: "qemu-system-arm: invalid option -- '-keyboard'"
Sep 05 12:46:54 <minthome> after a sucessful build using mokomakefile where are the actual uImage and rootfs stored?
Sep 05 12:47:03 <mortenlysgaard> white_gecko, Ok, just wait a sec
Sep 05 12:47:38 <CM> minthome: For me it's /home/moko/build/tmp/deploy/glibc/images/fic-gta01/
Sep 05 12:47:45 <mortenlysgaard> white_gecko, Damn, I had a .sh to lunch qemu for openmoko, but i've deleted it
Sep 05 12:47:55 <white_gecko> hm
Sep 05 12:48:07 <minthome> mortenlysgaard, cool, i thought so, but i had grepped out a few others.
Sep 05 12:48:29 <white_gecko> ill try later to build mokomakefile
Sep 05 12:48:54 <white_gecko> i've tried it already but it doesn't work
Sep 05 12:49:06 <mortenlysgaard> Anyone have gotten svn on projects.openmoko.org working. I've never used svn before an i'm a little stumped
Sep 05 12:49:38 <zecke> mortenlysgaard: yes
Sep 05 12:49:52 <white_gecko> btw, what is the current date of the GTA-02 release?
Sep 05 12:50:16 <white_gecko> the device with wifi :-)
Sep 05 12:50:26 <zash_se> does qemu-stuff have networking?
Sep 05 12:51:19 <mortenlysgaard> zecke, Ok, when i try to connect to my proj. i get: "Permission denied (publickey). svn: Connection closed unexpectedly"
Sep 05 12:52:34 <mortenlysgaard> zecke, The command i use is: "svn checkout svn+ssh://mulgrom@svn.projects.openmoko.org/svnroot/finger-keyboard"
Sep 05 13:05:25 <dcordes> is there any recent information about gta02 production status?
Sep 05 13:05:56 <CM> ARGH! Tried to rebuild just to get the new keyboar, but of cause bitbake breaks down completely.. 
Sep 05 13:07:33 <dcordes> CM: why not just rebuilding the keyboard?
Sep 05 13:08:30 <CM> dcordes: You have a point there.. ;)
Sep 05 13:08:49 <ScaredyCat> what's special about the kb, any pics? ?
Sep 05 13:09:02 <CM> ScaredyCat: I don't know, but I wanted to find out
Sep 05 13:09:10 <ScaredyCat> hehhe
Sep 05 13:10:40 <dcordes> is it any usable in landscape resolution?
Sep 05 13:11:51 <dcordes> "GTA02 will even allow you to change the battery without shutting down the device" (from http://gnumonks.org/~laforge/weblog/2007/09/01#20070901-uboot_passthrough) How is that achieved?
Sep 05 13:12:07 <dcordes> I mean- there has to be some extra battery to supply currency while you change
Sep 05 13:12:14 <CM> dcordes: USB power
Sep 05 13:12:18 <dcordes> ah I see
Sep 05 13:12:18 <roh> dcordes there is no production status before the is any production. all what happened now was that there are 2 succesive build prototypes (count <10) which get used for evaluation of the hardware design. thats actually quite some way still to even think about producing them
Sep 05 13:12:20 <CM> :)
Sep 05 13:13:01 <ScaredyCat> so not october then :P
Sep 05 13:13:10 <dcordes> so october is not really possible?
Sep 05 13:13:41 <roh> ScaredyCat i have no clue.
Sep 05 13:13:45 <ScaredyCat> they didn't say which october... 
Sep 05 13:13:51 <CM> ScaredyCat: Hehe
Sep 05 13:14:15 * XorA has often said that OM runs in plutonian years :-)
Sep 05 13:14:31 <dcordes> hrhr
Sep 05 13:14:33 <roh> before they are getting sold there will be devices for some p0 tests to make shure we have not forseen anything. but i really cannot predict any real 'will be sold then' date. the latter also depending on the state of software
Sep 05 13:15:09 <roh> eh. s/for/over
Sep 05 13:16:00 <CM> XorA: Is there any way I can see what changed in OE since yesterday in regard to a certain bb file? binutils-cross_2.18.bb in this case
Sep 05 13:16:43 <XorA> CM: it was added
Sep 05 13:16:47 <XorA> CM: and breaks here
Sep 05 13:16:59 <CM> Here too, and the paths look weird
Sep 05 13:17:20 <CM> "rmdir: `/home/moko/build/tmp/cross//home/moko/build/tmp/cross/lib/gcc-lib': No such file or directory"
Sep 05 13:18:06 <emdete> CM: hm, is set BUILD_ARCH = "i486" in build/conf/local.conf but get the same error :/ 
Sep 05 13:18:12 <roh> CM i also get that a lot. 
Sep 05 13:18:16 <emdete> s/is/i/
Sep 05 13:18:17 <apt> emdete meant: CM: hm, i set BUILD_ARCH = "i486" in build/conf/local.conf but get the same error :/ 
Sep 05 13:18:23 <roh> since minday evening
Sep 05 13:18:27 <roh> monday
Sep 05 13:18:50 <CM> roh: How do I get around it?
Sep 05 13:19:26 <roh> CM not.Ă i'm still researching what it is.. seems so change behaviour depending non what i wanna build and how
Sep 05 13:19:37 <mickeyl> XorA: so should we pinpoint 2.17.something ?
Sep 05 13:19:55 <mickeyl> i don't trust binutils .0 releases anyways
Sep 05 13:19:58 <CM> roh: Ok, thanks
Sep 05 13:20:00 <rwhitby> interestingly, binutils-cross-2.18 builds here fine.  32-bit debian etch and xubuntu 7.04
Sep 05 13:20:36 <ScaredyCat> compild here too
Sep 05 13:20:50 <rwhitby> and ScaredyCat's stuff usually breaks first!
Sep 05 13:20:57 <ScaredyCat> this is true
Sep 05 13:21:13 <ScaredyCat> but that's by design :)
Sep 05 13:21:46 <CIA-23> openmoko: 03chris * r2914 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-today2/ (4 files in 2 dirs): Synchronise with upstream matchbox-desktop-2
Sep 05 13:22:15 <CM> My build was from scratch yesterday evening, so maybe some other bug in there too.
Sep 05 13:22:51 <XorA> rwhitby: I see it build at work 32bit, fail at home 64bit
Sep 05 13:23:12 <ScaredyCat> 64bit pussys
Sep 05 13:23:16 <rwhitby> 64-bit strikes again.
Sep 05 13:23:51 * rwhitby wonders which program in a bitbake build requires more than 4GB of ram, thereby needing 64-bit ...
Sep 05 13:24:12 * ScaredyCat wonders where the splash screen went
Sep 05 13:24:14 <CM> emdete: Sorry, can't find any other bug like that eiher :/
Sep 05 13:24:19 <CIA-23> openmoko: 03chris * r2915 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-today2/ (ChangeLog libtaku/launcher-util.c): Fix function to match prototype in header in launcher-util.c
Sep 05 13:25:14 <ScaredyCat> oh dear
Sep 05 13:25:28 <CM> ScaredyCat: The boot menu?
Sep 05 13:25:45 <ScaredyCat> no..
Sep 05 13:25:52 <CM> I've been unable to get it back lately.. Even a new mtdblock1 doesn't seem to help :(
Sep 05 13:26:01 <CM> So I don't have a boot menu any more
Sep 05 13:26:02 <ScaredyCat> gets part way through the boot sound and sticks
Sep 05 13:26:40 <ScaredyCat> just seems to take twice as long o boot now
Sep 05 13:27:09 * CM takes a coffe break
Sep 05 13:27:16 <ScaredyCat> jffs2 errors
Sep 05 13:27:22 * ScaredyCat reflashes
Sep 05 13:28:10 <ScaredyCat> I can her my phone get sinal...
Sep 05 13:28:15 * roh gives up.. shower, breakfast, relocate myself to faster ip and then retry building
Sep 05 13:28:53 <ScaredyCat> hey!
Sep 05 13:29:11 <ScaredyCat> who took the 'upload screenshot' away from the menu
Sep 05 13:29:45 <mickeyl> try holding AUX
Sep 05 13:29:58 <ScaredyCat> another menu ?
Sep 05 13:30:01 <mickeyl> yes
Sep 05 13:30:04 <ScaredyCat> :O
Sep 05 13:30:09 <mickeyl> one for power-related things, one for non-power related things now
Sep 05 13:30:09 * ScaredyCat claps
Sep 05 13:30:15 <ccube> ^:-D
Sep 05 13:30:16 <ccube> nice
Sep 05 13:30:17 <ScaredyCat> ahh good move
Sep 05 13:30:22 <mickeyl> more consistent
Sep 05 13:30:27 <ccube> yeah
Sep 05 13:30:41 <mickeyl> and gives us room for some more functions we would like to have quickly accessible
Sep 05 13:30:48 <mickeyl> also added a "toggle fullscreen"
Sep 05 13:30:50 <mickeyl> which works quite nice
Sep 05 13:31:01 <roh> mickeyl i'm still not conviced by the short powerbutton press... i'd like make that 2 within 1 or 2 seconds. i pretty often kill a app by accident
Sep 05 13:31:02 <ScaredyCat> just make sure gta02 has more buttons ;)
Sep 05 13:31:26 <roh> ScaredyCat i will not. thats for certain. same case.
Sep 05 13:31:30 <mickeyl> roh: hmm... really? i don't fancy double clicks :)
Sep 05 13:31:38 <rwhitby> I thought gta02 had to have the exact same form factor as gta01 to amortise the tooling costs for the case
Sep 05 13:31:40 <mickeyl> roh: we need a usability screening anyways
Sep 05 13:31:44 <roh> one of the not many things we are shure about
Sep 05 13:31:46 <ScaredyCat> I hold the power till it 'poop's at me...
Sep 05 13:31:55 <mmazur> It does what?
Sep 05 13:32:02 <mickeyl> it sounds
Sep 05 13:32:04 <ScaredyCat> roh, you mean it (rather than i)
Sep 05 13:32:06 <ScaredyCat> ?
Sep 05 13:32:10 <XorA> reminds me, must fix power buttons on my devices
Sep 05 13:32:31 <rwhitby> what is the fix for the sunken power button?
Sep 05 13:32:45 <ScaredyCat> a biro
Sep 05 13:34:21 <mickeyl> rwhitby: disassemble the device and make the powerbutton reseat in the middle of ins enclosing
Sep 05 13:34:23 <mickeyl> s/ins/its/
Sep 05 13:34:25 <apt> mickeyl meant: rwhitby: disassemble the device and make the powerbutton reseat in the middle of its enclosing
Sep 05 13:34:26 <mickeyl> reassemble then
Sep 05 13:34:50 <rwhitby> mickeyl: thx
Sep 05 13:34:51 <mickeyl> that fixed it for most of my devices here
Sep 05 13:34:58 <ScaredyCat> the buttons could be like on the ps2:  aux + power + aux +aux +power+ aux = do something rather special
Sep 05 13:35:00 <mickeyl> not all though
Sep 05 13:35:28 <roh> japp. all gta01bv4 with green pcb at least. they all have the new panasonic keys
Sep 05 13:36:25 <mickeyl> *cough* i have yet to have a green gta01bv4
Sep 05 13:36:35 <roh> with the very early preseries devices (nothing we have taken money for) there were some problems with the switches itself. no pressure point due to soldering problems. but thats fixed now quite a while
Sep 05 13:37:02 <roh> mickeyl i meant the color of the main pcb.
Sep 05 13:37:27 <mickeyl> roh: me too
Sep 05 13:37:30 <mickeyl> was just abbreviating
Sep 05 13:38:29 <CIA-23> openmoko: 03chris * r2916 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-today2/ (ChangeLog src/today-main.c src/today-pim-summary.c): Launch "openmoko-dates" instead of "dates"
Sep 05 13:38:46 <roh> mickeyl if your keys click feelable then its propably the new ones
Sep 05 13:39:41 <ScaredyCat> mickeyl: what does toggle fullscreen do? doesn't seem to to anything here... or is it 'while in an app'
Sep 05 13:40:07 <mickeyl> ScaredyCat: i disabled it for the today app
Sep 05 13:40:09 <CIA-23> openmoko: 03thomas * r2917 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-today2/ (. libkoto/): * Switch to using the upstream version of libkoto via svn:externals
Sep 05 13:40:12 <mickeyl> ScaredyCat: it works for all other apps
Sep 05 13:40:21 <ScaredyCat> ahh ok. thank
Sep 05 13:40:22 <ScaredyCat> s
Sep 05 13:40:44 <mickeyl> if you see merit in it, i can enable for today as well
Sep 05 13:40:49 <mickeyl> just didn't thought it would be that helpful
Sep 05 13:40:55 <mickeyl> s/thought/think/
Sep 05 13:40:55 <apt> mickeyl meant: just didn't think it would be that helpful
Sep 05 13:41:37 * rwhitby looks forward to the day when there are no more 20070905 svn dates in the build ...
Sep 05 13:41:52 <mickeyl> rwhitby: :)
Sep 05 13:41:55 <mickeyl> soonish
Sep 05 13:42:14 <emdete> rwhitby: you meant revisions?
Sep 05 13:42:33 <mickeyl> no, we want revisions
Sep 05 13:42:36 <mickeyl> we don't want dates
Sep 05 13:42:54 <rwhitby> oh-puzzles, settings-daemon, matchbox-keyboard-inputmethod
Sep 05 13:42:55 <ScaredyCat> CM: I get that terminal bug now... i don;t think it;s me
Sep 05 13:43:47 <rwhitby> openocd-native
Sep 05 13:44:09 <rwhitby> so 4 packages to go and we're there.
Sep 05 13:45:23 <ScaredyCat> w00h00!
Sep 05 13:46:13 * rwhitby goes to bed, and dreams of a date-free build tomorrow ...
Sep 05 13:46:22 <ScaredyCat> did you remove the splash too mickeyl?
Sep 05 13:46:29 <ScaredyCat> psplash
Sep 05 13:46:32 <mickeyl> no
Sep 05 13:46:50 <mickeyl> this is probably due to a bug in OE
Sep 05 13:46:53 <falllout> is the release date for end users still october?
Sep 05 13:46:54 <aloril> falllout: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (and also SH1, SH1_FAQ, Neo1973, Developer_preview and Neo1973_Hardware#GTA01Bv4 pages) (Hopefully these links answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.)
Sep 05 13:47:03 <ScaredyCat> k
Sep 05 13:47:25 <CIA-23> openmoko: 03thomas * r2918 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-today2/ (ChangeLog src/today-pim-summary.c): 
Sep 05 13:47:25 <CIA-23> openmoko: * src/today-pim-summary.c: (today_pim_summary_visible_cb): Sync to
Sep 05 13:47:25 <CIA-23> openmoko: upstream libkoto
Sep 05 13:47:30 <emdete> we would like to compile openmoko for another platform. what would we have to do for that?
Sep 05 13:47:35 * ScaredyCat makes a sandwich
Sep 05 13:48:14 <stefan_schmidt> emdete: Add your platform to OE and use it as MACHINE.
Sep 05 13:48:42 <emdete> just a second - switch the client ;)
Sep 05 13:48:48 <stefan_schmidt> emdete: Or if you like to have some of the apps just use a crosscompiler for your platform and care about dep hell yourself
Sep 05 13:49:01 <stefan_schmidt> <stefan_schmidt> emdete: Or if you like to have some of the apps just use a crosscompiler for your platform and care about dep hell yourself
Sep 05 13:49:57 <emdete> we are thinking of the greenphone, where a cross-compiler is already there and the kernel can't be build because it contains closed source drivers
Sep 05 13:50:24 <roh> we do not have any support for binary components yet afaik.
Sep 05 13:50:47 <roh> i mean in the buildsystem.. and if i'm right in big parts of the community
Sep 05 13:51:09 <stefan_schmidt> emdete: Sounds like a really hard job
Sep 05 13:51:33 <roh> emdete sounds like a lot of work.. does somebody pay for it?
Sep 05 13:51:51 <stefan_schmidt> emdete: OpenMoko is not suited for keybad input yet. So you would have to use the ts the whole time.
Sep 05 13:52:27 <stefan_schmidt> roh: Personally I would start with adding grennphone machine support to OE and take a look at the just started QVGA theme stuff.
Sep 05 13:52:32 <stefan_schmidt> ehh
Sep 05 13:52:38 <stefan_schmidt> s/roh/emdete/
Sep 05 13:52:43 <XorA> emdete: OE already handles this situation for binary sharp ROM
Sep 05 13:52:45 <emdete> i wouldnt mind for the keyboard. but oe&bitbake is a really great tool
Sep 05 13:53:07 <XorA> emdete: check out sharprom-compatible distro
Sep 05 13:53:17 <stefan_schmidt> emdete: For just ts and QVGA support we already done some work for EZX and HTC devices
Sep 05 13:53:24 <emdete> i started with the greenphone and did all the steps myself. noe with the neo i see the benefit of the bb
Sep 05 13:53:59 <stefan_schmidt> emdete: Another _real_ big problem is that you are stucked with a 2.4 kernel which will not support everything you would need in OpenMoko
Sep 05 13:54:21 <emdete> the most important stuff we would like to use is the build (mokomakefile/bb/...) - is it possible to use a given kernel & crosscompiler?
Sep 05 13:54:33 <emdete> yes, 2.4 and nothing more. :(
Sep 05 13:54:51 <stefan_schmidt> emdete: Add 18 binary only modules to the pain list.
Sep 05 13:55:07 <zecke> stefan_schmidt: 17 IIRC ;)
Sep 05 13:55:17 <stefan_schmidt> zecke: got me :)
Sep 05 13:55:53 <roh> isn't it unimportant how often somebody shoots the dog? isnt it dead after the first few hits?
Sep 05 13:56:37 <stefan_schmidt> roh: What if you are able to RE 10 of them but not the rest?
Sep 05 13:56:53 <stefan_schmidt> roh: :)
Sep 05 13:56:54 <zecke> roh: technically you are right. But if you plan to shoot the dog 17 times then it is a new level of...
Sep 05 13:57:08 <roh> stefan_schmidt then it still will never be sold as openmoko.. see our trademark policy
Sep 05 13:57:31 <roh> if there is openmoko on the flyer, its opensource. at least in kernelland
Sep 05 13:57:56 <stefan_schmidt> roh: Yeah, but if people like to hack on it that's fine. As long as it is a private hobby.
Sep 05 13:57:56 <CM> zecke: Maybe you've seen it already? http://www.atoker.com/blog/2007/09/05/webkitgtk-at-linuxconf-europe-2007/
Sep 05 13:58:09 <zecke> yes, nice slides
Sep 05 13:58:29 * CM is looking right now
Sep 05 13:58:44 <roh> stefan_schmidt i did not want to put that into the wrong light. on the contrary.. running on all devices is a neccessary step for world domination, isnt it?
Sep 05 13:59:19 <stefan_schmidt> roh: psst, don't talk to loud about our world domination plans. ;)
Sep 05 13:59:25 <roh> zecke will gtk-webkit be merged upstream somehow in the future?
Sep 05 13:59:52 <zecke> roh: what is upstream for you? apple's webkit svn repository?
Sep 05 13:59:57 * roh wants to get rid of this fscking firefox and a working html renderer for some rss-tool
Sep 05 14:00:19 <roh> zecke dunno. as long as it looses 3 of the 4 buildsystems wrapped around it
Sep 05 14:01:29 <zecke> roh: hehe, the buildsystems where not a issue for debian developer. And everything I created is in the official webkit tree and we still have a lot to do...
Sep 05 14:01:42 <roh> i see.
Sep 05 14:02:17 <zecke> roh: the good thing of using qmake is, apple developers will fix the Gtk+ build. This is unlikely to happen with an autotools based system
Sep 05 14:02:19 <roh> then ill be quiet and wait and hope... the onlöy thing that bothers me is that there seems to be no browser-engine on this planet which can be taken seriously and which is not c++
Sep 05 14:03:06 <roh> zecke hehe.. i also do not like autotools. i never understood why people do not use gnumake and pkgtool and be happy till the end of their days
Sep 05 14:03:25 <orpheus> would anyone here be able (and willing) to explain to me how kernels get built from OE?
Sep 05 14:03:33 <orpheus> bitbake is... different
Sep 05 14:04:39 <roh> orpheus not very different from a vanilla built. with the difference that bitbake builds the crosscompiler for you and takes care of patching via quilt series file
Sep 05 14:05:25 <orpheus> actually, i guess I didn't really ask the right question
Sep 05 14:05:31 <roh> zecke for starters it would be cool when somebody breaks qmake out of the qt* stuff. it is till the only part ot the qt-world i use
Sep 05 14:05:54 <CM> zecke: Did Alp write WebWorks in 1995? Wasn't he like 10 years old back then or so? 
Sep 05 14:06:02 <orpheus> where does the kernel (and it's modules)  get tossed into a uIage?
Sep 05 14:06:17 <zecke> since ~yesterday qt-x11-4 should not be build when building webkit
Sep 05 14:06:20 <zecke> CM: no idea
Sep 05 14:06:31 * CM pretends alp isn't listening to this channel. ;)
Sep 05 14:06:38 <roh> orpheus the modules aren't. uImage is just the kernel qith a wrapper for uboot 
Sep 05 14:06:39 <CM> Just reading the slides
Sep 05 14:06:43 <orpheus> I've been trying to see where openmoko-devel-image eventually causes that to happen, but no such luck so far
Sep 05 14:07:31 <orpheus> roh: doh! I should have known that, this isn't doinig any multi-boot stuff; the rootfs is separate
Sep 05 14:08:04 <orpheus> thanks
Sep 05 14:09:26 <orpheus> would you happen to know what the lowest bitbake target is that will rebuild the rootfs? Also, how does bitbake know which kernel to use the modules from?
Sep 05 14:11:17 <emdete> stefan_schmidt: can you explain where i could start? didn't find the list you mentioned
Sep 05 14:11:42 <stefan_schmidt> emdete: List?
Sep 05 14:12:11 <emdete> you said to add binary packages to a list
Sep 05 14:13:35 <stefan_schmidt> emdete: Hmm, seems to have been miscommunicated.
Sep 05 14:14:07 <stefan_schmidt> emdete: As start, but that is my personal opinion, I would add support for the greenphone in OE
Sep 05 14:14:52 <emdete> stefan_schmidt: yes, i think that would be the best way
Sep 05 14:14:55 <stefan_schmidt> emdete: I have never done this personally so you have to read up some stuff on their website and perhaps asked some questions on ml or IRC afterwards
Sep 05 14:15:08 <PBeck> hi
Sep 05 14:15:37 <stefan_schmidt> emdete: OpenEmbedded also got a free greenphone for testing. But until now there is not much support for it.
Sep 05 14:16:09 <stefan_schmidt> zecke: Who has the greenphone atm? Anyone emdete can talk to for working together on OE suport?
Sep 05 14:16:54 <CM> stefan_schmidt: ljp maybe?
Sep 05 14:17:16 <zecke> stefan_schmidt: florian has one where I failed to get the serial working, and woglinde is using the 2nd as primary phone
Sep 05 14:17:31 <stefan_schmidt> CM: Does he _really_ work on this? I never saw a commit from him about this...
Sep 05 14:18:06 <stefan_schmidt> zecke: But no active work to support in in OE? Makes no sense before there is a working 2.6 kernel?
Sep 05 14:18:29 <CM> stefan_schmidt: I don't know, but I'm sure he has some green phones
Sep 05 14:18:40 <zecke> stefan_schmidt: I didn't want to be the one adding the binary modules to OE :}
Sep 05 14:19:05 <stefan_schmidt> CM: Of course, but the work still needs to be done manually. ;)
Sep 05 14:19:18 <stefan_schmidt> zecke: I understand this.
Sep 05 14:19:32 <ScaredyCat> mickeyl: /etc/init.d/psplash does not exist  <--- might be the cause of that one :)
Sep 05 14:19:49 <zecke> I felt stupid and ashamed to not get the serial working and gave the phone to florian at linuxtag
Sep 05 14:19:55 <CM> stefan_schmidt: I know, it's always like that. I keep staring at my screen, but the code just doesn't write itself. ;)
Sep 05 14:20:08 <stefan_schmidt> CM: :)
Sep 05 14:20:28 <stefan_schmidt> zecke: And you have enough other phones around.
Sep 05 14:20:42 <emdete_> sry, o was off for a minute. did you say saomething more about the greenphone?
Sep 05 14:20:53 <stefan_schmidt> emdete_: no
Sep 05 14:21:06 <florian> Is someone working on 2.6 for the Greenphone?!
Sep 05 14:21:18 <stefan_schmidt> emdete_: As start you can ask florian and woglinde about their status.
Sep 05 14:21:21 <zecke> florian: haha ;)
Sep 05 14:21:26 <florian> ~lart myself for lacking time to connect the serial port
Sep 05 14:21:26 * apt stabs myself for lacking time to connect the serial port
Sep 05 14:21:27 <stefan_schmidt> heh, there you go. :)
Sep 05 14:21:48 <emdete_> florian: you need  the tffs driver for that 
Sep 05 14:22:32 <florian> emdete_: First I need to put the pieces for the serial port together... 
Sep 05 14:22:33 <zecke> or boot from sdcard...
Sep 05 14:23:11 <mickeyl> ScaredyCat: ooh odd
Sep 05 14:24:04 <florian> we need boot_usb for the greenphone :-)
Sep 05 14:24:18 <dcordes> yuck, greenphone
Sep 05 14:24:30 <SpeedEvil> u-boot needs to be able to do boot over GPRS
Sep 05 14:24:41 <stefan_schmidt> florian: Grab the source. :)
Sep 05 14:26:05 <florian> stefan_schmidt: hum well... the source and the motivation is never a problem, but you should know what the major source of problem is by now, right? 
Sep 05 14:26:08 <florian> :-)
Sep 05 14:26:55 <stefan_schmidt> florian: :)
Sep 05 14:27:54 <cdbot2> * * OM Bug 801 has been created by christoph.gysin(AT)gmail.com
Sep 05 14:27:54 <cdbot2> * * qemu-native fails to build on gentoo/gcc-3.4.6
Sep 05 14:27:55 <cdbot2> * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=801
Sep 05 14:28:12 <florian> btw. anyone here who intends to come to OSiM?
Sep 05 14:28:37 <XorA> OSiM?
Sep 05 14:28:58 <zecke> XorA: OpenSource in Mobile
Sep 05 14:29:03 <florian> XorA: http://www.osimconference.com/
Sep 05 14:29:46 <stefan_schmidt> florian: You mean paying 3500$ for listening to business speach people? :)
Sep 05 14:29:58 <CIA-23> openmoko: 03chris * r2919 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-today2/ (8 files in 3 dirs): 
Sep 05 14:29:58 <CIA-23> openmoko: Change the way launching apps work so as to not require changes to
Sep 05 14:29:58 <CIA-23> openmoko: upstream matchbox-desktop-2.
Sep 05 14:30:45 <florian> stefan_schmidt: There is a contact for sponsored community member tickets... I'd expect quite some interesting people to be there.
Sep 05 14:31:14 <florian> ... and no, I did not pay 3500$ :-)
Sep 05 14:31:36 <stefan_schmidt> florian: :)
Sep 05 14:31:48 <stefan_schmidt> florian: I'm on vacation at this time anyway.
Sep 05 14:32:17 <stefan_schmidt> florian: And core-team cancled the trip due to much time waste.
Sep 05 14:37:39 <ScaredyCat> the 10 second force power off is back too ?
Sep 05 14:39:18 <ScaredyCat> mickeyl: also errors on boot trying to create /etc/rc5.d/35gsmd
Sep 05 14:39:32 <ScaredyCat> S35gsmd
Sep 05 14:49:15 <orpheus> So i'm gonna ask again, sorry for cluttering up the irc channel
Sep 05 14:49:36 <orpheus> but what all do I have to tell bitbake to rebuild if I want to try out a kernel change?
Sep 05 14:50:24 <orpheus> the kernel's package, then the whole image to get the modules re-packaged?
Sep 05 14:50:43 <orpheus> (re-packaged into the rootfs)
Sep 05 14:56:49 <ScaredyCat> bitbake -crebuild  <blah>
Sep 05 14:57:20 <emdete> sry for reconnecting... network probs here. stefan_schmidt you said there are already people working on the greenphone. is there a mailing list or something? do you know if one can participate?
Sep 05 14:58:35 <stefan_schmidt> emdete: It more like people who have one and had some thoughts about hacking on it. I don't think there is an ml.
Sep 05 14:58:53 <stefan_schmidt> emdete: florian and woglinde, hanging out here, are the two I know
Sep 05 14:59:20 <emdete> perhaps joint forces can solve the problem ;)
Sep 05 14:59:56 <CM> orpheus: bitbake -c rebuild linux-gta01 even, then the rootfs
Sep 05 15:01:24 <florian> emdete: My current focus is to get the serial port working and playing with the crappy original kernel a little bit, but I'm definitely not going to port 2.6 to it.
Sep 05 15:01:48 <emdete> florian: what do you mean with 'serial port'?
Sep 05 15:01:59 <emdete> florian: gsm?
Sep 05 15:02:24 <florian> emdete: console
Sep 05 15:03:32 <emdete> florian: hm, don't understand that. the usb does ethernet as in the neo... which serial device are you talking about?
Sep 05 15:04:23 <stefan_schmidt> emdete: A real hardware serial port available throught the debug points of the phone
Sep 05 15:04:58 <florian> emdete: and you do not want to start with a usb console if you intend to port a new kernel to it :-)
Sep 05 15:05:46 <florian> I wonder if I can resist trying OpenMoko and G(PE)^2 on it ;)
Sep 05 15:06:12 <mortenlysgaard> Hmm. having this problem with ssh. what do you guys get when you try: svn checkout svn+ssh://mulgrom@svn.projects.openmoko.org/svnroot/finger-keyboard
Sep 05 15:06:13 <orpheus> CM: thanks, that's what I was trying (well, linux-openmoko), but i think it may have just svn co'ed over my added patch
Sep 05 15:07:15 <orpheus> wouldn't we need your password?
Sep 05 15:07:29 <emdete> florian: how would you start to port moko to it?
Sep 05 15:07:54 <mortenlysgaard> Yes you would, but i don't get to the auth. process
Sep 05 15:07:57 <orpheus> mortenlysgaard: Ekk!
Sep 05 15:07:58 <orpheus> Permission denied (publickey).
Sep 05 15:07:58 <orpheus> svn: Connection closed unexpectedly
Sep 05 15:08:06 <edistar> would you think that it is possible to port the openmoko OS to the nokia 770? without the gsm bit of course..
Sep 05 15:08:07 <mortenlysgaard> Same as me :S
Sep 05 15:08:32 <orpheus> mort: it looks broken to me as well
Sep 05 15:08:43 <florian> emdete: Building an OM based image for it... 
Sep 05 15:08:51 <mortenlysgaard> orpheus, am i doing something wrong, should the pswd be in the command, or will i be phtomted to enter it?
Sep 05 15:09:10 <orpheus> it should look just like an ssh prompt
Sep 05 15:09:18 <emdete> florian: i have not the expirience with that - could you help?
Sep 05 15:09:51 <orpheus> mort: it looks like ssh is confused on that machine
Sep 05 15:09:53 <mortenlysgaard> orpheus, Ok, so there's somthing wrong with projects.openmoko? because i can't see i'm doing enything wrong
Sep 05 15:10:20 <mortenlysgaard> s/enything/anything/
Sep 05 15:10:21 <florian> emdete: sure, the first step would be to get basic support for the device into OE - I guess zecke has some bits to do that. 
Sep 05 15:10:21 <apt> mortenlysgaard meant: orpheus, Ok, so there's somthing wrong with projects.openmoko? because i can't see i'm doing anything wrong
Sep 05 15:10:25 <orpheus> either that, or we're both missing something big (which is entirely possible)
Sep 05 15:11:14 <mortenlysgaard> orpheus, Hmm.. how irritating. Then i can't get my release up in svn :S
Sep 05 15:12:23 <orpheus> anyone know more than me about svn on projects.openmoko.org?
Sep 05 15:12:28 <orpheus> maybe?
Sep 05 15:14:14 <mortenlysgaard> orpheus, I don't know. I have to say i'm a bit irritated on the page. I hasn't updated it's news in several weeks. All in all, it's a bit buggy. I want to get m app out to the people, and i just won't work :S
Sep 05 15:16:35 <ScaredyCat> CM: are your builds behaving oddly?
Sep 05 15:18:03 <ScaredyCat> that new keyboard...
Sep 05 15:18:18 <ScaredyCat> doesn't work... or t least the app launcer seems broken
Sep 05 15:19:02 <ScaredyCat> it's about as stable as my last girlfriend
Sep 05 15:20:46 <ScaredyCat> ok, so it does start, you just get no indication that its started... surely it should also only run once
Sep 05 15:22:31 <ScaredyCat> stefan_schmidt: where is this new keyboard then?
Sep 05 15:23:03 <stefan_schmidt> ScaredyCat: Install matchbox-keyboard-applet
Sep 05 15:23:14 <stefan_schmidt> The reminds me to add it to the default image
Sep 05 15:26:10 <CM> ScaredyCat: Yes, it behaves a bit oddly :)
Sep 05 15:27:09 <ScaredyCat> I had to force psplash uninstall (it didn;t exist) then install it...
Sep 05 15:27:18 <folken> buildhost has still not fully recoverd, i presume? 
Sep 05 15:28:07 <ScaredyCat> this build is bad imho
Sep 05 15:28:50 <CM> Well, it no longer builds at all :P
Sep 05 15:28:59 <CIA-23> openmoko: 03andrew * r2920 10/trunk/src/host/qemu-neo1973/ (gnokiigsm/at-emulator.h hw/neo1973.c hw/s3c.h hw/s3c2410.c): 
Sep 05 15:28:59 <CIA-23> openmoko: Scale the S3C ADC readings to natural values from a GTA01, fixes bug #736.
Sep 05 15:28:59 <CIA-23> openmoko: Take AT error constants from the specs.
Sep 05 15:29:18 * CM is going home
Sep 05 15:29:36 * ScaredyCat is home!
Sep 05 15:29:47 <ScaredyCat> i can has cheezburgr ?
Sep 05 15:32:51 <CIA-23> openmoko: 03laforge * r2921 10/trunk/src/target/kernel/patches/gta02-core.patch: Implement GTA02 bluetooth power switching
Sep 05 15:34:32 <Jiten> I was wondering, can the touchscreen detect when a finger is close to the screen?
Sep 05 15:34:43 <SpeedEvil> No.
Sep 05 15:34:55 <SpeedEvil> Only when it touches it, and depresses it by 0.1mm or so.
Sep 05 15:35:14 <ScaredyCat> stefan_schmidt: do i get an icon or what?
Sep 05 15:35:16 <SpeedEvil> (no feeling - as the force is in the .1-1g range)
Sep 05 15:35:29 <ScaredyCat> the keyboard no longer appears on the panel
Sep 05 15:36:07 <stefan_schmidt> ScaredyCat: Install the package and restart X and you should find a keyboard icon on the top panel
Sep 05 15:36:09 <CIA-23> openmoko: 03thomas * r2922 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/artwork/themes/openmoko-standard-2-qvga/gtk-2.0/gtkrc: * Set taku-icon size to 32x32
Sep 05 15:36:27 <ScaredyCat> I even tried rebooting stefan_schmidt... nada
Sep 05 15:36:39 <stefan_schmidt> ScaredyCat: hmm, scy
Sep 05 15:36:46 <stefan_schmidt> scarry
Sep 05 15:37:12 <stefan_schmidt> ScaredyCat: I'll investigate. But shopping some food before
Sep 05 15:37:22 <ScaredyCat> but even the standard one isn't working how it should either...
Sep 05 15:37:43 <ScaredyCat> (and that was before adding yours)
Sep 05 15:37:48 <stefan_schmidt> ScaredyCat: The autopopup or the input manager?
Sep 05 15:38:08 <ScaredyCat> input manager
Sep 05 15:38:14 <ScaredyCat> autopopup pops up
Sep 05 15:39:35 <Jiten> is it possible to use the bluetooth to find where other bluetooth devices are? Or if not a direct way, does bluetooth give information on the signal strength?
Sep 05 15:39:40 <ScaredyCat> ok, 3 reboots later i get a tiny tiny keybord icon
Sep 05 15:39:53 <stefan_schmidt> ScaredyCat: What does it not do? Add itself to the panel? (The white rectangle)
Sep 05 15:40:07 <stefan_schmidt> ScaredyCat: ok, that's it
Sep 05 15:40:49 * Jiten is envisioning neo1973 working as a sort of virtual window into alternate dimension where you can see things depending on where the phone is.
Sep 05 15:40:51 <SpeedEvil> Jiten: No, don't know
Sep 05 15:40:59 <ScaredyCat> http://scap.linuxtogo.org/files/3951efa3dd1017ada927bfdc8d5fc63a.png
Sep 05 15:41:13 <Writchie> Jiten: there is RSSI available at least at the lower layers
Sep 05 15:41:30 <Writchie> Jiten: this might not be all that useful. 
Sep 05 15:41:52 <SpeedEvil> Jiten: basically - you get _some_ information - but for example, rotating the phone 180 degrees may reduce signal by 50%
Sep 05 15:42:20 <Writchie> Jiten: i recall years ago some discussion about location services oriented profile but I don't think this made to official protocol list. 
Sep 05 15:42:48 <Writchie> Jiten: there was also a WAP group involved in this many years ago. 
Sep 05 15:44:02 <Jiten> SpeedEvil: those effects might actually help more than they hurt the case of figuring out where the source is ... especially if we have accelerometers.
Sep 05 15:44:49 <Jiten> that is, unless they're completely random :)
Sep 05 15:45:06 <ScaredyCat> Jiten: yes
Sep 05 15:45:12 * SpeedEvil sighs.
Sep 05 15:45:16 <ScaredyCat> lq == link quality
Sep 05 15:45:21 * SpeedEvil digs out the URL again.
Sep 05 15:45:32 <ScaredyCat> take a look at asterisks btpd 
Sep 05 15:45:43 <SpeedEvil> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Technical:Accelerometer_Fundamentals
Sep 05 15:45:46 <ScaredyCat> should work fine on the neo
Sep 05 15:45:56 <SpeedEvil> you can't get roll about the gravity axis
Sep 05 15:46:07 <SpeedEvil> Jiten :
Sep 05 15:46:23 <ScaredyCat> (sorry scrollback - RE:  is it possible to use the bluetooth to find where other bluetooth devices are?)
Sep 05 15:51:21 <SpeedEvil> ScaredyCat: was that the beginning of a statement, or a question?
Sep 05 15:51:54 <ScaredyCat> it was the begining of one on Jiten's questions
Sep 05 15:52:56 <aloril> (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Buying_Interest_List]] [[Freshman_todo]]
Sep 05 16:01:51 <Jiten> SpeedEvil: ok, looks like the accelerometers will be fairly useless.
Sep 05 16:02:09 <Jiten> for pretty much anything I was thinking about.
Sep 05 16:04:25 <DPThought> Jiten: why that? What could you get more than three axis?
Sep 05 16:04:51 <DPThought> a gyro would be more fun. But pricy...
Sep 05 16:04:53 <Jiten> well, I was mostly thinking of user interface stuff.
Sep 05 16:04:57 <SpeedEvil> Unfortunately, you need maybe 3 orders of magnitude better to get to inertial stuff.
Sep 05 16:05:09 <SpeedEvil> You can basically tell accurately where 'down' is.
Sep 05 16:05:12 <CIA-23> openmoko: 03andrew * r2923 10/trunk/src/host/qemu-neo1973/ (monitor.c readline.c vl.h): An old patch for persistent monitor commands history.
Sep 05 16:05:16 <SpeedEvil> this means that you can do accurate tilting.
Sep 05 16:05:29 <DPThought> ah, ok
Sep 05 16:05:40 <SpeedEvil> But little more.
Sep 05 16:06:00 <DPThought> As long as i can reject calls by shaking the phone and accept with tapping it...
Sep 05 16:06:21 <Jiten> I was thinking about using the accelerometers for sliding viewport over a large virtual space with applications but ... it seems they're way too inaccurate to be useful
Sep 05 16:06:30 <SpeedEvil> Unfortunately, yes.
Sep 05 16:07:34 <DPThought> i don't thing this would be really ergonomic anyway. Sorry for my pessimism.
Sep 05 16:07:50 <ScaredyCat> mickeyl: who looks after buildhost?
Sep 05 16:09:14 <Jiten> also, I was thinking of some input methods where you'd move the phone around with some gesture system but if the noise is that bad ... that's also toast.
Sep 05 16:09:41 <ScaredyCat> you could reject the call by throwing it at a wall
Sep 05 16:10:04 <DPThought> lol
Sep 05 16:10:04 <cb22_> ScaredyCat, nice thinking
Sep 05 16:10:19 <cb22> lets hope the accelorometers can pick *that* up
Sep 05 16:10:24 <DPThought> dice games would be fun too :)
Sep 05 16:10:35 <cjb_ie> i actually did that with my p910i, and broke the screen :(
Sep 05 16:10:45 <Jiten> however, the touchscreen input methods are looking more promising than I thought they would be :)
Sep 05 16:10:47 <ScaredyCat> best thing for it cjb_ie
Sep 05 16:11:11 <cjb_ie> ScaredyCat: actually, i spent the 50 eur or so on a new screen
Sep 05 16:11:24 <cb22> are all accelerometers like this, or are the neo ones just bad?
Sep 05 16:11:31 <ScaredyCat> you should have given me 50 euro for my p910i
Sep 05 16:11:49 <ScaredyCat> was that db extract any use btw?
Sep 05 16:11:50 <SpeedEvil> cb22: two things.
Sep 05 16:11:52 <DPThought> or tamagotchis. (Plaease beat me hard!)
Sep 05 16:12:26 <SpeedEvil> cb22: the accelerometers that have been mentioned in the mailing list are especially bad - some 16* worse than best available.
Sep 05 16:12:44 <DPThought> is the WiiMote better?
Sep 05 16:12:54 <SpeedEvil> cb22: but in the under $1000 or so price-range - the ones in the wiimote are about the best
Sep 05 16:13:01 <SpeedEvil> you may get about a factor of 2 better
Sep 05 16:13:06 <cb22> hmm
Sep 05 16:13:08 <SpeedEvil> but not more.
Sep 05 16:13:28 <ScaredyCat> so if i pretend to play tennis it'll be ok ;)
Sep 05 16:13:37 <cb22> i dont suppose they have a standard interface :)
Sep 05 16:14:02 <SpeedEvil> no
Sep 05 16:14:27 <SpeedEvil> Either analog, or digital
Sep 05 16:14:42 <cb22> boo... so there will be no ripping apart wiimotes?
Sep 05 16:14:45 <DPThought> never seen any with digital out
Sep 05 16:14:59 <SpeedEvil> there are digital out ones.
Sep 05 16:15:11 <DPThought> cb22: you can connect a wiimote via bluetooth if you need it ;)
Sep 05 16:15:13 <SpeedEvil> The wiimote one is widely available at $5-7
Sep 05 16:15:41 <Jiten> why not use the wiimote ones? too proprietary?
Sep 05 16:15:51 <cb22> DPThought, heh, but unless it supports > 1 bt connection, then what will i do with my bluetooth keyboard :p
Sep 05 16:15:56 <cb22> or is it < 1
Sep 05 16:16:15 <DPThought> SpeedEvil: the wiimote chip is ditigal? 
Sep 05 16:16:48 <DPThought> that would be nice. Im planning (or dreaming) to do some inertial navigation on a mini sub...
Sep 05 16:17:42 <SpeedEvil> No, it's analog.
Sep 05 16:17:54 <SpeedEvil> DPThought: see the above page - http://pastebin.com/m4c2cf02f
Sep 05 16:17:57 <SpeedEvil> oops
Sep 05 16:18:05 <SpeedEvil> the link to the wiki
Sep 05 16:18:12 <daxxar> DPThought: DP as in Double Penetration? :o
Sep 05 16:18:16 <SpeedEvil> basically - it's almost useless - at best it gives you tilt
Sep 05 16:18:41 <SpeedEvil> after 1 min, you have 1m/s or so velocity uncertainy
Sep 05 16:18:54 <SpeedEvil> you really need a couple of gyros.
Sep 05 16:18:58 <cb22> will it be able to register sharp 'jerks'?
Sep 05 16:18:59 <SpeedEvil> See sparkfun.org
Sep 05 16:19:04 <SpeedEvil> yes.
Sep 05 16:19:11 <SpeedEvil> See sparkfun.com
Sep 05 16:19:24 <cb22> so i could move my hand rapidly to the right and have it do x?
Sep 05 16:19:26 <DPThought> cb22: i never understood if that is possible. But i have seen computers with mouse and keyboard via bluetooth. So i probably just misunderstood the whole multiple connection stuff with bluetooth...
Sep 05 16:19:46 <cb22> DPThought, it is possible, my laptop does it and my ipaq too.
Sep 05 16:19:55 <DPThought> SpeedEvil: oh, thx. the wii chip is analog.
Sep 05 16:20:13 <SpeedEvil> the links on that page above also show links
Sep 05 16:20:18 <SpeedEvil> to digital ones
Sep 05 16:20:31 <DPThought> ah, ok
Sep 05 16:34:00 <bedboi> hi there.
Sep 05 16:37:36 <hhf423> moin
Sep 05 16:37:54 * hhf423 is massively pissed off
Sep 05 16:38:04 <SpeedEvil> Due to?
Sep 05 16:38:13 <hhf423> i just did ipkg update
Sep 05 16:38:51 <hhf423> the matchbox session file was overwritten without question
Sep 05 16:39:35 <hhf423> now mrxvt does no longer autostart an my neo is practically useless
Sep 05 16:40:10 <hhf423> because the return key in the new terminal does not work
Sep 05 16:40:22 <ferric> bloody hell!
Sep 05 16:40:28 * ferric commiserates.
Sep 05 16:40:33 <hhf423> and input manager refuses to start
Sep 05 16:41:30 <hhf423> and as i can not ssh into the neo because i am on vacation with no pc thats it now
Sep 05 16:41:33 <ScaredyCat> hhf423: the input manager is starting... you probably have 20000 of them
Sep 05 16:41:42 <ScaredyCat> it doesn;t show the icon :(
Sep 05 16:41:42 * SpeedEvil ponders.
Sep 05 16:41:52 <ScaredyCat> unless you install matchbox-keyboard-applet
Sep 05 16:42:10 <hhf423> ah, but no icon no selection
Sep 05 16:42:15 <ScaredyCat> yes
Sep 05 16:42:29 <ScaredyCat> but it should auto popup
Sep 05 16:42:59 <ScaredyCat> but you'reright mrxvt is broken
Sep 05 16:43:14 <hhf423> i can not install nothing because the return key of the new keyboard does not work
Sep 05 16:43:50 <ScaredyCat> and of course for some reason they removed the app manager applet
Sep 05 16:43:55 <hhf423> only the new keyboard does autopopup
Sep 05 16:44:33 <ScaredyCat> can't you ssh in from your 770 ?
Sep 05 16:45:11 <hhf423> so unless i can get input manager (old keyboard) or the return key to work, i am done
Sep 05 16:46:19 <hhf423> ScaredyCat: i can not as the neo does not host a NAP by default
Sep 05 16:46:53 * hhf423 cries
Sep 05 16:47:09 <ScaredyCat> that'll teach you to go on holiday without a laptop
Sep 05 16:47:32 <hhf423> why the bloody hell does the return key not work?
Sep 05 16:47:39 <ScaredyCat> aliens
Sep 05 16:47:39 <cb22> hhf423, it was probably sabotage by your wife / girlfriend :)
Sep 05 16:47:53 <bedboi> hhf423: i guess you are on vacation with your wife/girlfrend
Sep 05 16:47:55 <bedboi> ahahah
Sep 05 16:48:03 <bedboi> cb22: AHAHA
Sep 05 16:48:32 <bedboi> wife/girlfriends are always the same in all the countries
Sep 05 16:48:47 <hhf423> bedboi: sure ;-) she'll probably like the turn
Sep 05 16:48:51 <ScaredyCat> s/wife\/girlrfriend/mythical\ wife\/gilfriend/
Sep 05 16:49:17 <SpeedEvil> If your girlfriend divides your wife, what do you do with the body?
Sep 05 16:49:31 <polz> hhf423: install the .. what was that lib.. vtc or something
Sep 05 16:49:31 <ScaredyCat> cook it?
Sep 05 16:50:06 <polz> the new terminal should depend on it (but doesn't)
Sep 05 16:50:16 <hhf423> polz: how can i install anything if i have no return key?
Sep 05 16:50:32 * cb22 doesnt understand the problem, no return key??
Sep 05 16:50:38 <polz> how are you able to access the net ?
Sep 05 16:50:40 <cb22> IE, you cant press enter
Sep 05 16:51:09 <ScaredyCat> hhf423: use ctrl M
Sep 05 16:51:18 <polz> cb22: I think the new terminal doesn't really work at all unless you install some lib
Sep 05 16:51:23 <hhf423> cb22: pressing the enter key on the new keyboard gives nothing
Sep 05 16:51:36 <SpeedEvil> can you copy/paste?
Sep 05 16:51:39 <hhf423> aaaaaah!
Sep 05 16:51:43 <polz> and it appears as if "return" doesn't work
Sep 05 16:51:48 <cb22> ctl-m works?
Sep 05 16:51:55 <ScaredyCat> yes
Sep 05 16:52:00 <hhf423> ScaredyCat: youre the man!
Sep 05 16:52:01 <cb22> nifty
Sep 05 16:52:15 <hhf423> ctrl m works
Sep 05 16:52:23 <hhf423> brilliant!
Sep 05 16:53:16 <polz> you need to install vte, AFAIK
Sep 05 16:53:58 <hhf423> vte? ipkg install vte?
Sep 05 16:54:35 <hhf423> any alternative for backspace ? does also not work
Sep 05 16:55:11 <ScaredyCat> ctrl h ?
Sep 05 16:56:07 <hhf423> right
Sep 05 16:56:42 <hhf423> ah, backspace works, it just does not show property 
Sep 05 16:59:34 <ScaredyCat> so why was vte removed from standard images?
Sep 05 16:59:38 <hhf423> can the terminal emulation be fixed? at the moment its broken
Sep 05 17:01:16 <hhf423> installing vte fixes it?
Sep 05 17:01:32 <polz> hhf423: it did for me
Sep 05 17:01:53 <hhf423> ok, let me try that
Sep 05 17:01:56 <bedboi> it is really unbelievable that gtk file chooser widget is still that slow in 2007
Sep 05 17:01:56 <hhf423> brb
Sep 05 17:03:59 <bedboi> i don't see any reasons about not spawning a thread which reads the directory and as long as the files are read displaying them
Sep 05 17:04:08 <bedboi> as qt guys done
Sep 05 17:04:18 <bedboi> it's really too annoying
Sep 05 17:06:16 * k-s[WORK] is away: lunch
Sep 05 17:09:15 <webar7> seen sean
Sep 05 17:14:31 <stefan_schmidt> pH5: Hi. You have seen the commits about qvga stuff in OE and OM? Still work to do, but with the right PPI and the other stuff it looks not that bad.
Sep 05 17:15:29 <hhf424> re
Sep 05 17:15:55 <hhf424> ipkg install vte does not work for me
Sep 05 17:16:13 <hhf424> is theg name correct ?
Sep 05 17:16:13 <aloril> hhf424: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (and also SH1, SH1_FAQ, Neo1973, Developer_preview and Neo1973_Hardware#GTA01Bv4 pages) (Hopefully these links answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.)
Sep 05 17:16:31 <ScaredyCat> hhf424: update from my repo
Sep 05 17:16:41 <ScaredyCat> or install it from
Sep 05 17:16:53 <pH5> stefan_schmidt: yes, I've seen them. still need to try them though
Sep 05 17:17:07 <polz> hhf424: yes.
Sep 05 17:17:13 <polz> hhf424: does "ls" work ?
Sep 05 17:17:22 <hhf424> ScaredyCat: i did that, your repo is in my setup
Sep 05 17:17:35 <ScaredyCat> that's what i used to update mine
Sep 05 17:17:48 <polz> ScaredyCat: what should I read to learn how to set up a repo of my very own ?
Sep 05 17:18:03 <ScaredyCat> errm... there's nothing..
Sep 05 17:18:46 <ScaredyCat> well, other than needing a webserver
Sep 05 17:18:50 <hhf424> polz: i think, but let me try. just rebooting
Sep 05 17:18:56 <polz> OK, assuming I've set up a local overlay as specified on http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Application_Development_Crash_Course
Sep 05 17:18:59 <ScaredyCat> and copying the packages dir
Sep 05 17:19:06 <polz> where do I find the ipkgs ?
Sep 05 17:19:27 <ScaredyCat> build/tmp/deploy/..../ipk
Sep 05 17:19:57 <ScaredyCat> build/tmp/deploy/glibc/ipk/
Sep 05 17:20:02 <hhf424> polz: ls works
Sep 05 17:20:44 <CIA-23> openmoko: 03laforge * r2924 10/trunk/src/target/kernel/patches/pcf50633.patch: 
Sep 05 17:20:44 <CIA-23> openmoko: work around what seems like a PCF50633 bug: If we ever set the duty cycle
Sep 05 17:20:44 <CIA-23> openmoko: of the backlight LED PWM to '0', we need to first switch off the entire LED
Sep 05 17:20:44 <CIA-23> openmoko: boost converter, and then re-enable it to get any output voltage again.
Sep 05 17:20:47 <polz> ScaredyCat: 10x.
Sep 05 17:21:01 <ScaredyCat> 10x? 
Sep 05 17:21:22 <polz> thanks, as in thank you.
Sep 05 17:21:40 <ScaredyCat> ok.. lol - doh
Sep 05 17:21:46 <polz> 10x -> ten X -> thanks.
Sep 05 17:22:20 <hhf424> funny, if i do a ipkg list | grep vte it is there
Sep 05 17:23:01 <hhf424> so why can i not install?
Sep 05 17:23:16 <polz> how about libvte9 _
Sep 05 17:23:18 <polz> ?
Sep 05 17:23:44 <hhf424> polz: also there
Sep 05 17:23:48 <florian> bbl
Sep 05 17:23:52 <polz> can you install it ?
Sep 05 17:24:04 <hhf424> let me try
Sep 05 17:24:08 <hhf424> brb
Sep 05 17:24:29 <polz> btw, is the screen on the neo1973 really supposed to be transflective ?
Sep 05 17:24:46 <polz> because... well... in the sun, I can't see a thing on the screen
Sep 05 17:25:22 <ScaredyCat> root@fic-gta01:~$
Sep 05 17:25:22 <ScaredyCat> root@fic-gta01:~$ ipkg install vte
Sep 05 17:25:22 <ScaredyCat> Installing vte (0.16.8-r2) to root...
Sep 05 17:25:22 <ScaredyCat> Downloading http://buildhost.automated.it/OM2007.2/packages/armv4t/vte_0.16.8-r2_armv4t.ipk
Sep 05 17:25:22 <ScaredyCat> Configuring vte
Sep 05 17:25:22 <ScaredyCat> root@fic-gta01:~$      
Sep 05 17:26:46 <pH5> stefan_schmidt: I read in the backlogs yesterday you'll be at OEDEM?
Sep 05 17:26:53 * ScaredyCat it pretty sure that this build is total crap
Sep 05 17:30:42 <conley> Hey, everyone.  Sorry if you get this question a lot.  The wiki says "DO NOT expect to be able to use it as an everyday phone until October 2007 at the soonest, and probably later."  What is the real date looking like?
Sep 05 17:31:08 <thomasg> mickeyl, here?
Sep 05 17:31:30 <polz> conley: ask a crystal ball 
Sep 05 17:31:51 * anrp sticks a 3x multiplier in there somewhere
Sep 05 17:32:36 <conley> polz: I did, it's not responding
Sep 05 17:33:28 <polz> conley: probably it's not even human, it does not feel pain, it can't be reasoned with !
Sep 05 17:33:45 <conley> Yea, I didn't expect a real answer.  I know how development is.  When you have 90% of the work done, you still have 90% left to do
Sep 05 17:34:03 <polz> conley: but seriously, if you don't have a phone, buy something cheap and wait until GTA02 comes out
Sep 05 17:34:12 <polz> or perhaps even until GTA03
Sep 05 17:34:36 <conley> Is that a release?
Sep 05 17:35:10 <polz> GTA02 is going to be the next hardware revision
Sep 05 17:35:28 <conley> ah, ok
Sep 05 17:35:30 <CIA-23> openmoko: 03laforge * r2925 10/trunk/src/target/u-boot/patches/ (ext2load_hex.patch series): remove ext2load_hex.patch. this information is stored in the filesize environment variable anyway
Sep 05 17:35:44 <conley> I didn't realize the hardware was not finalized
Sep 05 17:35:48 <polz> and I'm guessing GTA03 is going to appear about 6 months later (but you have to remember I'm purely guessing, I have no relation to the company whatsoever)
Sep 05 17:35:59 <CIA-23> openmoko: 03laforge * r2926 10/trunk/src/target/u-boot/patches/uboot-cmd_s3c2410.patch: the command is called s3c24xx, not s3c24x0
Sep 05 17:36:08 <polz> conley: they're working on the prototypes for the 2. revision
Sep 05 17:36:22 <CIA-23> openmoko: 03laforge * r2927 10/trunk/src/target/u-boot/patches/uboot-serial_terminal.patch: add serial terminal CMD constant to list of all CMD's
Sep 05 17:36:30 <polz> conley: the current hardware works, but it doesn't have WiFi or the accelerometers
Sep 05 17:36:58 <polz> and the CPU is a bit slow, and there's no graphic accelerator
Sep 05 17:37:05 <CIA-23> openmoko: 03laforge * r2928 10/trunk/src/target/u-boot/patches/ (uboot-s3c2410-nand.patch uboot-s3c2440.patch): remove commented-out old code from s3c24xx nand driver
Sep 05 17:37:07 <conley> ok,...I think I'm going to break down and get a cellphone then...I've gone without for a long time.  Even as evil as cell phone companies are, I really need one.
Sep 05 17:37:16 <pavelm> Hello, everyone
Sep 05 17:37:30 <polz> conley: buy a used one
Sep 05 17:37:41 <pavelm> I'm about to play with gsmd... SMS support is must-have for me.
Sep 05 17:37:41 <polz> conley: or ask a friend if they can spare one to tide you over
Sep 05 17:37:43 <CIA-23> openmoko: 03laforge * r2929 10/trunk/src/target/u-boot/patches/ (neo1973-gsmver.patch series): add command to read out gsm firmware version using u-boot (jserv)
Sep 05 17:37:52 <conley> polz: I was thinking about just getting whatever the place gave me
Sep 05 17:37:56 <conley> I wasn't getting a nice one
Sep 05 17:38:00 <polz> pavelm: I thought gsmd supported SMS send/recv
Sep 05 17:38:00 <pavelm> Is there already agreed-on protocol for SMSes between gsmd and rest of the system?
Sep 05 17:38:12 <conley> Is there a *good* service provider?
Sep 05 17:38:13 <polz> pavelm: and all that was missing was a GUI
Sep 05 17:38:22 <pavelm> polz: does it work for you?
Sep 05 17:38:33 <polz> pavelm: I don't dare receive them :P
Sep 05 17:38:50 <polz> but listing the pending SMSs seems to work :)
Sep 05 17:38:55 <pavelm> polz: Good, that should make situation easier.
Sep 05 17:39:15 <pavelm> polz: fortunately receiving SMS is free around here.
Sep 05 17:39:23 <pavelm> polz: try to do it few times :-)
Sep 05 17:40:08 <pavelm> polz: so applications are expected to do PDU decoding?
Sep 05 17:40:56 <polz> pavelm: here, it's definetly not free
Sep 05 17:41:33 <polz> conley: only if they're your employer - the rest are blood-sucking leeches, regardless of the part of the world you're living in ;)
Sep 05 17:41:55 <polz> pavelm: I really don't know
Sep 05 17:42:10 <conley> polz: ugh...
Sep 05 17:42:26 <stefan_schmidt> pH5: Very likely yes. I was able to schedule other trips around it.
Sep 05 17:44:56 <pH5> stefan_schmidt: great
Sep 05 17:45:46 <stefan_schmidt> pH5: Not sure if we will take all days, but we should have some time for hacking
Sep 05 17:49:08 <pavelm> polz: you pay for receiving sms? that's backwards...
Sep 05 17:50:18 <polz> pavelm: you pay to send them
Sep 05 17:50:38 <polz> pavelm: but I'm afraid to read the ones I have because they might just get lost
Sep 05 17:51:17 <polz> argh.
Sep 05 17:51:21 <pavelm> polz: ok, so I have exactly same problem here.
Sep 05 17:51:32 <polz> /etc/init.d/gsmd restart now causes a hard lock
Sep 05 17:51:36 <pavelm> polz: I guess I should just get a scratch sim card.
Sep 05 17:53:17 <aloril> (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Technical:Accelerometer_Fundamentals]]
Sep 05 17:56:25 <thomasg> openembedded seems to use system-libs for some of the *-native packages. is there a way to make sure, that OE uses only it's own libs and no system libs at all?
Sep 05 17:58:38 <Elrond> pavelm - Hi! :-)
Sep 05 17:59:17 <pavelm> Hi, elrond!
Sep 05 17:59:33 <pavelm> ...I'm now actually using openmoko as my gsps... with maps, too :)
Sep 05 17:59:57 <Elrond> pavelm - Ohh? What maps?
Sep 05 18:00:08 <Elrond> pavelm - So you still use oabi?
Sep 05 18:00:10 <pavelm> self-calibrated images from the net.
Sep 05 18:00:28 <pavelm> yep, I think so.
Sep 05 18:01:07 <pavelm> ...would like to get openstreetmap maps to work, and it should not be that hard, but I guess SMSes are more urgent now.
Sep 05 18:01:39 <Elrond> hehe, yeah.
Sep 05 18:02:05 <polz> pavelm: how did you manage to get the position ?
Sep 05 18:02:19 <pavelm> polz: gllin binary.
Sep 05 18:02:27 <polz> where do I get that ?
Sep 05 18:02:41 <polz> forget it, I can read the wiki
Sep 05 18:02:43 <Elrond> polz - You need a oabi chroot to use it.
Sep 05 18:03:05 <pavelm> polz: good question ;-). Ask anyone who got original phase1 openmoko.
Sep 05 18:03:16 <pavelm> elrond: did you get chroot to work?
Sep 05 18:03:22 <pavelm> ..how big is it?
Sep 05 18:03:36 <Elrond> pavelm - Well... I'm on strike due to this mess. ;o)
Sep 05 18:04:12 <pavelm> Ok, does that mean that update to 2007.02 is not _that_ cool idea
Sep 05 18:04:16 <pavelm> ?
Sep 05 18:04:22 <Elrond> pavelm - Yesterday I thought to "come back", but then buildhost.openmoko.org did not have anything to download. ;o)
Sep 05 18:04:40 <pavelm> :-)
Sep 05 18:04:52 <Elrond> pavelm - If you want to use gllin: Bad idea.  Unless you intend to work on the chroot.
Sep 05 18:05:02 <polz> note to self: do not remove the battery while the phone is connected to USB
Sep 05 18:05:04 <pavelm> THere seems to be new secret place for new images. It is on "flashing openmoko" page.
Sep 05 18:06:20 <pavelm> elrond: Hmm, I need new images for fixed microSD support, and at the same time I'll oose gps that way.
Sep 05 18:06:44 <pavelm> ...I guess it will be "one openmoko for mp3 player, second for gps"...
Sep 05 18:06:51 <Elrond> pavelm - Fixed microsd: You can use the new kernwls and modules on the old images.
Sep 05 18:07:37 <pavelm> elrond: Yep, I could do that.
Sep 05 18:08:43 <Elrond> pavelm - Last time I wanted to "stop my strike", I considered upgrading the kernel/modules. Then I heard, that serial stuff was b0rked in the kernel. ;o)  (hopefully fixed by now)
Sep 05 18:10:53 <Elrond> Ahh, seems ficed, it seems.
Sep 05 18:11:05 <Elrond> http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=256#c21
Sep 05 18:11:39 <pavelm> I must say games on 2007.2 image are addictive :-)
Sep 05 18:14:17 <hhf423> re
Sep 05 18:14:42 <pavelm> hmm... libgsmd-tool -m shell, sl. segfault
Sep 05 18:15:10 <hhf423> ScaredyCat: how do i tell ipkg to install from your repo, do you know?
Sep 05 18:15:48 <synalx> hi openmoko people!
Sep 05 18:17:08 <Elrond> Hi synalx 
Sep 05 18:17:15 <pavelm> what is needed to make gsmd talk to me?
Sep 05 18:17:34 <pavelm> it does not react even to simple commands such as Q.... does it have something to do with simcard being inactive?
Sep 05 18:17:37 <synalx> is there anything special i need to do to get a dev environment set up on amd64?
Sep 05 18:17:38 <Elrond> pavelm - On 2007.2?
Sep 05 18:18:28 <CM> synalx: Nope, I suggest you start following this: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/MokoMakefile
Sep 05 18:18:37 <pavelm> elrond: yep, on 2007.2.
Sep 05 18:19:05 <Elrond> pavelm - See the bug-url I posted a few minutes ago: http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=256#c21
Sep 05 18:19:07 <pavelm> ...libgsmd-tool seems to be enhanced, so it probably makes no sense to test with older gsmd.
Sep 05 18:19:08 <Elrond> pavelm - Maybe it helps.
Sep 05 18:19:14 <synalx> CM: okay :D
Sep 05 18:19:18 <synalx> i'm so excited about this project
Sep 05 18:19:23 <CM> synalx: There's an issue with binutils-cross in oe right now, but they're working on it atm
Sep 05 18:19:31 * Elrond heads for dinner.
Sep 05 18:19:37 <CM> Besides that, 64bit works well
Sep 05 18:20:09 <pavelm> elrond: aha, so 2007.2 was released with broken gsmd? wow.
Sep 05 18:20:41 <CM> pavelm: I'm using a newer image (scaredy cats) from sunday, and it's the first one where I've been able to call with 2007.2
Sep 05 18:20:52 <CM> Directly with the dialer that is
Sep 05 18:21:05 <hhf423> pavelm: yes, gsmd is still broken most of the time, but not always
Sep 05 18:21:28 <synalx> CM: i think last time i tried this, i ran into problems because psycho is maked in portage for amd64
Sep 05 18:21:40 <hhf423> also see phase 1 software testing in the wiki
Sep 05 18:21:51 <CM> synalx: You don't need psycho, it doesn't work in 64-bit
Sep 05 18:22:01 <synalx> ah okay
Sep 05 18:22:02 <pavelm> CM: do you have url for the newer image?
Sep 05 18:22:09 <pavelm> ...I guess I should just be using latest...
Sep 05 18:22:13 <synalx> it's listed in the OpenEmbedded setup instructions
Sep 05 18:22:51 <doc|work> hmmm, iphone price drop
Sep 05 18:22:51 <CM> pavelm: No, the latest one is messed up again
Sep 05 18:22:56 <MetaMorfoziS> what is the name of the city in china
Sep 05 18:22:59 <doc|work> 8gb for $399
Sep 05 18:23:05 <MetaMorfoziS> where neo's manufactured?
Sep 05 18:23:07 <CM> pavelm: I have these ones on my neo right now: http://claesmogren.com/~cm/neo/2007.2/
Sep 05 18:23:32 <CM> pavelm: They are bigger because ScaredyCat added scummvm to it, and some other things I think
Sep 05 18:23:49 <doc|work> anyone think fic will counter that?
Sep 05 18:23:58 <synalx> doubt it
Sep 05 18:24:02 * pavelm likes scummvm :)
Sep 05 18:24:35 <CM> pavelm: But you'll have to find Monkey Island on your own.. ;)
Sep 05 18:24:35 <hhf423> doc|work: how much price drop?
Sep 05 18:25:19 <doc|work> hhf423: $200
Sep 05 18:25:36 <hhf423> wow, thats significant 
Sep 05 18:25:43 <ferric> yeah...
Sep 05 18:25:49 <ferric> fic doesn't really care about apple, though.
Sep 05 18:26:11 <hhf423> thats a third or so
Sep 05 18:26:48 <MetaMorfoziS> so? where neo manufactured?
Sep 05 18:26:52 <pavelm> well... neo is open, while half a world is working to _make_ iphone open.
Sep 05 18:26:56 <synalx> MetaMorfoziS: mainland china afaik
Sep 05 18:27:01 <MetaMorfoziS> thx
Sep 05 18:27:02 <pavelm> ...or at least unlocked.
Sep 05 18:27:04 <CM> ScaredyCat: Btw, how about cleaning out old or bad builds from http://buildhost.automated.it/OM2007.2/ ? :D
Sep 05 18:27:21 * pavelm still does not understand why so many people care about iphone.
Sep 05 18:27:29 <pavelm> ...but pavelm lives in europe...
Sep 05 18:27:44 <synalx> ah, ~amd64. life on the edge!
Sep 05 18:27:59 <pavelm> Ok, I have to go now, I'll be back in 2 hours or so.
Sep 05 18:28:13 <synalx> so how many people here have P1 hardware?
Sep 05 18:28:14 <pavelm> synalx: try making GPRS/EDGE your only network connection. _That's_ living on edge.
Sep 05 18:28:16 <doc|work> pavelm: sure, I'm willing to cough up, but a lot won't, and it was nice to say "but this phone is $150 less than that crappy iphone". Now the iphone is cheaper than the neo and has 8gb of storage :/
Sep 05 18:28:29 <synalx> pavelm: haha, i've lived  like that for a week
Sep 05 18:28:47 <pavelm> many, I'd say.
Sep 05 18:28:48 <synalx> it was especially fun because technically i *had* no internet plan
Sep 05 18:29:13 <synalx> pavelm: T-Mobile just didn't have their system locked down, so I was able to use my phone as a modem for a while
Sep 05 18:29:16 <synalx> XD
Sep 05 18:29:20 <pavelm> heh, 5 years here
Sep 05 18:29:24 <synalx> wow
Sep 05 18:30:01 <pavelm> doc: iphone cheaper than neo? But that's with "subscribe your soul for paying for two years, right"?
Sep 05 18:30:05 <synalx> yeah
Sep 05 18:30:07 <pavelm> doc: not really fair comparison.
Sep 05 18:30:14 <synalx> of course, all cell phone companies do that really
Sep 05 18:30:27 <synalx> 1 year contract minimum
Sep 05 18:30:29 <CM> synalx: Not in europe
Sep 05 18:30:31 <pavelm> doc: I mean, neo with two years subsciption would be $1 here.
Sep 05 18:30:34 <synalx> CM: ah, true
Sep 05 18:30:38 <synalx> US companies suck
Sep 05 18:30:41 <CM> I've only had unlocked phones, ever
Sep 05 18:31:02 <synalx> CM: it's not really the phones that's the problem
Sep 05 18:31:04 <pavelm> synax: We have prepaid cards here. For $6 or so.
Sep 05 18:31:24 <synalx> CM: contracts and cancellation fees :(
Sep 05 18:31:31 <synalx> pavelm: yeah, i'd read about that
Sep 05 18:31:49 <pavelm> I did have locked phone... for two days :-). $6 or something like that was enough to unlock it.
Sep 05 18:31:56 <synalx> lol
Sep 05 18:32:03 <CM> Hehe
Sep 05 18:32:21 <synalx> so CM/pavelm do you have a neo?
Sep 05 18:32:27 <CM> yes
Sep 05 18:32:39 <synalx> how is it? :)
Sep 05 18:32:48 <CM> Unfinished..
Sep 05 18:32:51 <synalx> lol
Sep 05 18:32:55 <CM> But the screen is great! :D
Sep 05 18:32:59 <CM> Slow too
Sep 05 18:33:01 <hhf423> does anyone know how to make ipkg use a specific repository?
Sep 05 18:33:20 <synalx> what's the plan, to finish the software before the P2 release?
Sep 05 18:33:23 <CM> hhf423: Nope, I've wondered about that too. Was something in the wiki about it that I updated..
Sep 05 18:33:33 <mintee> Anyone need a neo1973?  I think i'm gonna throw mine on ebay...
Sep 05 18:33:43 <CM> synalx: Yes, and P2 was supposed to be in October, but I guess next year is more likely
Sep 05 18:33:46 <doc|work> mintee: not without wifi :/
Sep 05 18:33:50 <mintee> i'm just really freakin broke
Sep 05 18:33:50 <synalx> CM: :-/
Sep 05 18:34:01 <mintee> GTA02 isn't due out for months
Sep 05 18:34:07 <pavelm> synalx: Yep, I have neo here. Screen sux. Read my blog for more thinks that suck ;-).
Sep 05 18:34:21 <synalx> pavelm: screen sucks because no acceleration?
Sep 05 18:34:35 <CM> pavelm: Well, I live in Sweden and the winter with eternal darknes is on it's way..
Sep 05 18:34:45 <hhf423> CM: i thought maybe -f, but that does not seem to work
Sep 05 18:34:50 <CM> Unreadable in sunligt isn't an issue ;)
Sep 05 18:35:02 <pavelm> screen sucks because of flicker and poor readability in daylight.
Sep 05 18:35:18 <CM> pavelm: I haven't had any flicker on mine. When does it happen?
Sep 05 18:35:30 <pavelm> CM: Ok, so neo will rock in Sweden for half a year :-)
Sep 05 18:35:43 * pavelm should visit Sweden.
Sep 05 18:35:51 * hhf423 neo screen does no flicker
Sep 05 18:35:55 <CM> Yes, the other half it's all sunshine and partying, so no need to look at the Neo ;)
Sep 05 18:35:59 <pavelm> CM: always. It is more visible when cpu is loaded.
Sep 05 18:36:01 <hhf423> sweden is nice
Sep 05 18:36:13 <pavelm> CM: maybe my two neos are defective.
Sep 05 18:36:32 <CM> pavelm: That sucks. You have a gta01v3 or v4?
Sep 05 18:36:47 <pavelm> ok, I really have to go.
Sep 05 18:36:49 <synalx> i wonder if FIC will release GTA02 before the software is finished, so devs can play with it
Sep 05 18:36:51 <CM> later
Sep 05 18:37:04 <pavelm> cm: both
Sep 05 18:37:09 <hhf423> but never ask a swede for a deadline. sweds don't have a concept of deadlines
Sep 05 18:37:22 <CM> hhf423: I'll get back to you on that! :P
Sep 05 18:37:29 <pavelm> cm: If you do not see a flicker, it is not a problem, and it is really usable. But I see flicker clearly when I look closely.
Sep 05 18:37:31 <hhf423> hahaha
Sep 05 18:37:45 * pavelm waves.
Sep 05 18:39:46 <hhf423> hmm, so i can not install vte because its not on builthost even though ipkg thinks its there.
Sep 05 18:40:15 <hhf423> probably builthost borked (again)
Sep 05 18:40:57 <synalx> it's quite sad that this will be pushed back into 08
Sep 05 18:41:05 <synalx> i'd really like to see it make the october release date
Sep 05 18:41:14 <synalx> what's the current hold-up?
Sep 05 18:41:48 <doc|work> synalx: it will? :(
Sep 05 18:41:50 <CM> synalx: Judging from what Harald has said, it's a heap of small delays and a very small staff
Sep 05 18:42:03 <doc|work> man, I'd been waiting for the neo :(
Sep 05 18:43:34 <doc|work> how do you know there's a delay? there's nothing on announce
Sep 05 18:44:04 <SpeedEvil> No, there isn't.
Sep 05 18:44:17 <SpeedEvil> There is probably a good reason for this, but nobody can work out what it is.
Sep 05 18:45:10 <stefan_schmidt> ~pastebin
Sep 05 18:45:11 <apt> from memory, pastebin is a place to paste your stuff without flooding the channel - try  http://pastebin.ca, or http://channels.debian.net/paste, or http://rafb.net/paste/, or http://pastebin.com is usually painfully too slow and unresponsive to use, use one of the other pastebin sites, or dpaste.com is a very nice pastebin as well
Sep 05 18:46:11 <doc|work> there's a mention in the wiki of new devices being announced in sept, not sure how accurate that is
Sep 05 18:46:36 <SpeedEvil> The problem again is - no info.
Sep 05 18:47:00 <doc|work> yep
Sep 05 18:47:46 <fgau> SpeedEvil: the problem is OC open communication :)
Sep 05 18:47:56 <SpeedEvil> The general consensus is that October is unlikely for GTA02 - however, there have been a month? ago no comment that it would be delayed.
Sep 05 18:48:42 <synalx> i'd love to get GTA02 hardware even if the software isn't finished
Sep 05 18:48:56 <cb22> synalx, +1
Sep 05 18:49:04 <doc|work> synalx: yep
Sep 05 18:49:43 <doc|work> personally, I'd be happy with working calls, sms, wifi and web browser.
Sep 05 18:49:49 <synalx> haha, same
Sep 05 18:50:06 <doc|work> really, that's the primary reason I'm interested in the thing :)
Sep 05 18:51:23 <synalx> what are the current plans for all the cool features you hear people talking about (like the phone automatically turning off if GPS says it's in a movie theater)
Sep 05 18:51:37 <synalx> is that third party stuff or built into openmoko proper?
Sep 05 18:52:52 <CM> SpeedEvil: Had to look around in the logs: http://rafb.net/p/my8tl240.html
Sep 05 18:54:03 <synalx> haha
Sep 05 18:54:13 <SpeedEvil> Indeed - however, that's not actually a status report.
Sep 05 18:54:16 <synalx> CM: what day was that?
Sep 05 18:54:29 <CM> synalx: Sunday night, as the title of the paste is ;)
Sep 05 18:54:31 <doc|work> oh bugger 
Sep 05 18:54:40 <SpeedEvil> There are at least two models of GTA02, to evaluate several GPS solutions reportedly.
Sep 05 18:54:41 <doc|work> burning pcbs = not inducive to good sales :)
Sep 05 18:54:57 <CM> SpeedEvil: True it's not an official statement, but it sure isn't good either
Sep 05 18:57:16 <synalx> well, the bright folks at FIC can figure it out
Sep 05 18:57:26 <SpeedEvil> My problem is how the hell do you decide which off-hand comment is current.
Sep 05 18:57:29 <SpeedEvil> http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2007-August/009491.html
Sep 05 18:58:14 <CM> SpeedEvil: Or Haralds gloomy log-off message the other day
Sep 05 18:58:38 <CM> Something like "[This is a dark day for the project]" or similar
Sep 05 18:58:48 <SpeedEvil> Indeed.
Sep 05 18:59:14 <SpeedEvil> I mean, is that a random message by his client, or a report that he's going to have to fix the lighting.
Sep 05 19:00:07 <synalx> so will there be any difference, hardware-wise, between GTA02 phase 1 for developers and GTA02 phase 2 mass-market
Sep 05 19:00:11 <synalx> ?
Sep 05 19:01:20 * SpeedEvil passes synalx an official news source. 
Sep 05 19:01:21 <roh> synalx that should be the plan
Sep 05 19:01:26 * SpeedEvil closes the box of magic-8-balls.
Sep 05 19:01:31 <doc|work> I don't think there's to be a gta02 developer phase afaik
Sep 05 19:01:46 <SpeedEvil> Ah - comment from someone with a clue!
Sep 05 19:01:51 <SpeedEvil> Thanks.
Sep 05 19:01:59 <doc|work> me? :)
Sep 05 19:02:08 * SpeedEvil points a roh.
Sep 05 19:02:15 <SpeedEvil> s/a/at/
Sep 05 19:02:15 <apt> SpeedEvil meant: Thatnks.
Sep 05 19:02:30 <borg_> lol
Sep 05 19:02:34 <synalx> :)
Sep 05 19:02:38 <abraxa_> Genius :)
Sep 05 19:02:46 <hhf423> haha
Sep 05 19:02:49 <doc|work> er, so, there will be a dev phase? when did that plan come about?
Sep 05 19:03:06 <doc|work> last I heard, gta02 *was* the mass-market
Sep 05 19:03:09 <SpeedEvil> Indeed.
Sep 05 19:03:26 <synalx> well, it stands to reason that there will be some dev work with the gta02 hardware
Sep 05 19:03:32 <synalx> ex: wifi network browser
Sep 05 19:03:39 <doc|work> hmmm
Sep 05 19:04:03 <ScaredyCat> lol - if they think for one second I'm buying another dev version they're on acid.
Sep 05 19:04:12 <doc|work> hahaha
Sep 05 19:04:38 <synalx> well
Sep 05 19:04:41 <synalx> the hardware should be fixed
Sep 05 19:04:43 <doc|work> I'd hope they'd freeze the hardware+non-upgradeable firmware at that stage
Sep 05 19:04:54 <synalx> i just mean that the gta02 release date will not be the mass-market release date
Sep 05 19:05:16 <SpeedEvil> Yes, the hardware should be fixed. However we have been told for >5 months that October is mass market release date.
Sep 05 19:05:27 <synalx> true
Sep 05 19:05:33 <synalx> true
Sep 05 19:05:33 <roh> massmarket will be when software is ready.
Sep 05 19:05:34 <borg_> SpeedEvil: you now the status of the software
Sep 05 19:05:44 <SpeedEvil> Of course.
Sep 05 19:05:50 <synalx> XD
Sep 05 19:05:50 <borg_> s/now/know/
Sep 05 19:05:51 <SpeedEvil> I was meaning hardware time.
Sep 05 19:05:51 <apt> borg_ meant: SpeedEvil: you know the status of the software
Sep 05 19:06:00 <hhf423> ScaredyCat: say, do you know how to make ipkg choose a specific repository?
Sep 05 19:06:14 <SpeedEvil> One line of status per week per dev would resolve all of this.
Sep 05 19:06:26 <synalx> haha
Sep 05 19:06:28 <ScaredyCat> erm.. no... try moving the other conifg files to your ~/
Sep 05 19:06:35 <ScaredyCat> then ipkg update.
Sep 05 19:06:43 <doc|work> will there be a stable software base for the end of oct? e.g. wifi, browser, sms + calls?
Sep 05 19:06:51 <roh> and hardware. the hardware could be first ad needs to be tested first. thus there will be a period of time before the massmarket release (aka money against hardware) where some people will have a gta02, doing testing.
Sep 05 19:06:55 <synalx> doc|work: likely yes
Sep 05 19:06:55 <mjr> doc|work, bwahahahaha
Sep 05 19:07:04 <doc|work> I mean, it'd be usable at that which you could then build on with updates
Sep 05 19:07:21 <doc|work> mjr: :(
Sep 05 19:07:37 <ScaredyCat> I'd settle for some actual real core development 
Sep 05 19:07:45 <hhf423> ScaredyCat: will try that
Sep 05 19:07:57 <doc|work> most people wouldn't care all that much about gps, accel and the other stuff in the short term.
Sep 05 19:08:21 <ScaredyCat> fewd!!!
Sep 05 19:08:39 * hhf423 wants gps, all the interesting stuff comes with gps
Sep 05 19:08:52 <borg_> ack
Sep 05 19:09:07 * hhf423 totally wants context based todos
Sep 05 19:09:11 <roh> the only thing which seems to be confusing for some people is that the coreteam chose to overlap the first and last phase from gta01 and gta02
Sep 05 19:09:17 <TOS> Right now I would settle for the webkit-gtk to build.
Sep 05 19:10:08 <hhf423> brb
Sep 05 19:10:15 <synalx> does the OM build really take 11 hours? XD
Sep 05 19:10:15 <doc|work> hhf423: sure, but for the shortterm, it'd be good to get it out as just a phone :)
Sep 05 19:10:51 <TOS> OM took about that time for me to build (before what ever broke in the last update)
Sep 05 19:10:55 <synalx> wow
Sep 05 19:11:06 <synalx> on what spec system?
Sep 05 19:11:43 <synalx> model name      : AMD Turion(tm) 64 X2 Mobile Technology TL-50
Sep 05 19:11:43 <synalx> cpu MHz         : 1600.000
Sep 05 19:11:47 <TOS> Dual Core AMD (I forget the speed) 4Gb RAM and 250Gb Hd on ubuntu
Sep 05 19:12:16 <synalx> fun
Sep 05 19:12:20 <borg_> synalx: you build a whole distribution
Sep 05 19:12:24 <borg_> that takes some time
Sep 05 19:12:49 <synalx> yeah
Sep 05 19:12:50 <synalx> i guess
Sep 05 19:12:59 <synalx> well, this should be fun :)
Sep 05 19:13:01 <CM> It doesn't build on 64-bit now
Sep 05 19:13:05 <synalx> aww
Sep 05 19:13:22 <CM> binutils-cross is broken
Sep 05 19:13:24 <TOS> It did last week.
Sep 05 19:13:25 <synalx> don't i need a cross-compiler suite set up? or is that only for actual hardware
Sep 05 19:13:46 <CM> TOS: I build successfully this morning, so it happened today
Sep 05 19:14:20 <CM> synalx: It builds everything, since you emulate the neo in qemu if that's what you're going to run. Or do you plan on using Xoo?
Sep 05 19:14:26 <synalx> CM: how soon into the build would i notice a problem
Sep 05 19:14:27 <TOS> I am getting puzzling errors in webkit
Sep 05 19:14:28 <synalx> CM: qemu
Sep 05 19:14:51 <CM> TOS: Webkit compiled for me this morning
Sep 05 19:14:53 <TOS> for me its on step 2728
Sep 05 19:15:58 <synalx> do i need qemu installed before i initiate the build?
Sep 05 19:16:02 <CM> So far, the standard way to fix build problems have been to restart from scratch, just copying my old local.conf
Sep 05 19:16:15 <TOS> oh fun.
Sep 05 19:16:29 <TOS> I figured that was going to be my resolution
Sep 05 19:16:33 <CM> synalx: No, but you need monotone and sqlite3 and pysqlite2 and the other stuff that the wiki lists
Sep 05 19:16:37 <TOS> I was hoping to avoid it.
Sep 05 19:16:42 <CM> TOS: Just let it build over night
Sep 05 19:16:54 <synalx> i don't see sqlite on there :o
Sep 05 19:17:02 <TOS> Thats what I did last time.
Sep 05 19:17:16 <TOS> synalx: check out http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/MokoMakefile
Sep 05 19:17:29 <TOS> makes life much easier
Sep 05 19:17:32 <synalx> yeah, i'mm using that
Sep 05 19:18:14 <synalx> i didn't see any mention of sqlite in deps though
Sep 05 19:18:46 <CM> synalx: It's a dependancy of bitbake-1.8.x
Sep 05 19:18:54 <CM> I should update that
Sep 05 19:18:59 * CM watches some tv instead
Sep 05 19:19:12 <synalx> ah okay
Sep 05 19:19:24 <synalx> thanks
Sep 05 19:26:04 <punto_de> hola
Sep 05 19:26:20 <davprog> hola
Sep 05 19:27:59 <synalx> boost takes forever to compile
Sep 05 19:28:00 <synalx> XD
Sep 05 19:30:52 <borg_> wait for webkit
Sep 05 19:31:40 * k-s[AWAY_WORK] is back.
Sep 05 19:32:11 <synalx> lol
Sep 05 19:32:14 <synalx> borg_: what's webkit?
Sep 05 19:32:38 <doc|work> webbrowser
Sep 05 19:33:10 <synalx> openmoko has its own browser?
Sep 05 19:33:51 <pH5> s/webbrowser/engine/
Sep 05 19:33:53 <pH5> http://www.atoker.com/blog/2007/09/05/webkitgtk-at-linuxconf-europe-2007/
Sep 05 19:34:32 <doc|work> sorry, yeah
Sep 05 19:37:37 <synalx> do i need qemu installed for this?
Sep 05 19:40:11 <synalx> probably not
Sep 05 19:44:59 <CM> synalx: You can speed up building glibc by specifying the locales you want, or disable them completely: http://claesmogren.com/~cm/neo/local.conf
Sep 05 19:45:05 <Elrond> Hi pH5! :-)
Sep 05 19:45:26 <CM> synalx: Either of the bottom rows. rm_work makes the build take about 2gb instead of 14 gb.
Sep 05 19:45:50 <CM> synalx: That's my build/conf/local.conf
Sep 05 19:46:09 <El_Salvador[Away> <doc|work> webbrowser
Sep 05 19:46:14 <El_Salvador[Away> webkit is a engine
Sep 05 19:46:23 <El_Salvador[Away> like gecko
Sep 05 19:47:47 <CM> Good summary of webkit and webkit-gtk+: http://www.atoker.com/blog/2007/09/05/webkitgtk-at-linuxconf-europe-2007/
Sep 05 19:49:10 <synalx> CM: is rm_work a good idea though?
Sep 05 19:49:23 <El_Salvador[Away> http://wiki.openmoko.org/index.php?title=Neo1973&curid=1375&diff=18331&oldid=17502
Sep 05 19:49:26 <El_Salvador[Away> ufficial?
Sep 05 19:49:55 <synalx> i can live with December
Sep 05 19:50:00 <CM> synalx: Yes, it just removes temporary build files
Sep 05 19:50:09 <synalx> CM: ok, sweet
Sep 05 19:50:25 <Vegar> El_Salvador[Away: look at the log message
Sep 05 19:50:31 <Vegar> "Random date bump - no recent confirmation, recent reported hardware problems"
Sep 05 19:51:23 <synalx> CM: so "make qemu" would give me downloaded builds + qemu-neo?
Sep 05 19:52:37 <aloril> (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[User:PhilipNeustrom]] [[Buying_Interest_List]] [[Neo1973]]
Sep 05 19:52:47 <CM> synalx: It would build qemu, then you have to "make qemu-image", then "make run-qemu" :)
Sep 05 19:53:01 <El_Salvador[Away> <Vegar> El_Salvador[Away: look at the log message
Sep 05 19:53:03 <El_Salvador[Away> right
Sep 05 19:53:09 <El_Salvador[Away> i don't see it XD
Sep 05 19:53:18 <synalx> CM: but does that use my locally built copy?
Sep 05 19:53:20 <El_Salvador[Away> *saw
Sep 05 19:53:42 <synalx> isn't that "make qemu-image-local"
Sep 05 19:54:05 <synalx> erm, make flash-qemu-local
Sep 05 19:54:05 <synalx> XD
Sep 05 19:54:07 <CM> synalx: Yes, all is built locally
Sep 05 19:54:12 <TOS> Is there a specific reason not to just "make all" (the target exists)
Sep 05 19:54:14 <CM> Heh, that's it
Sep 05 19:54:16 <CM> :)
Sep 05 19:54:35 <synalx> super, okay
Sep 05 19:54:50 <synalx> i don't need a copy of qemu installed on the host for this right?
Sep 05 19:55:02 <synalx> since OM has its own branch
Sep 05 19:55:27 <SpeedEvil> roh - so sales to developers of GTA02 will only happen when the software is ready?
Sep 05 19:56:02 <synalx> SpeedEvil: i don't think that's what he said
Sep 05 19:56:33 <SpeedEvil> 20:04 <roh> massmarket will be when software is ready.
Sep 05 19:56:33 <SpeedEvil> 20:05 <roh> and hardware. the hardware could be first ad needs to be tested
Sep 05 19:56:33 <SpeedEvil>           first. thus there will be a period of time before the massmarket
Sep 05 19:56:33 <SpeedEvil>           release (aka money against hardware) where some people will have
Sep 05 19:56:34 <SpeedEvil>           a gta02, doing testing.
Sep 05 19:57:16 * cb22 wants a gta02
Sep 05 19:58:16 <cw666> i want kernels on gta01 to stop breaking because of what seem to be gta02 changes
Sep 05 19:58:49 <SpeedEvil> Which I at least read as no sales of GTA02 hardware before massmarket-ready software is there.
Sep 05 19:59:10 <bedboi> is there any news about shipping times of the new batch?
Sep 05 19:59:30 <SpeedEvil> No.
Sep 05 19:59:39 <SpeedEvil> other than that on direct.openmoko.com
Sep 05 19:59:57 <cw666> SpeedEvil: ok, can i ask you more (repititious) questions about power drain? :-)
Sep 05 20:00:02 <SpeedEvil> Sure.
Sep 05 20:00:25 <cw666> SpeedEvil: so, i dont get more than about 24-36hrs with GSM modem on... i figure i should be seeing 2x that given it's likely draw
Sep 05 20:00:37 <SpeedEvil> Have you turned the audio amp off?
Sep 05 20:00:40 <cw666> the difference i wonder might be the mixer; so using alsamixer im checking the speaker is off
Sep 05 20:00:43 <cw666> right
Sep 05 20:00:49 <cw666> well, i'm not 100% clear if im doing the right thing there
Sep 05 20:01:03 <SpeedEvil> Do you own a multimeter?
Sep 05 20:01:19 <cw666> yeah, several, but ive not bothered digging any of this out of the closet, i should i know
Sep 05 20:01:28 <El_Salvador[Away> [21:57:18] * cb22 wants a gta02
Sep 05 20:01:46 <cb22> yes El_Salvador[Away?
Sep 05 20:01:48 * El_Salvador[Away wants news
Sep 05 20:01:53 <cb22> heh
Sep 05 20:01:55 <cb22> i want both
Sep 05 20:02:01 <cb22> then i can have my cake and eat it
Sep 05 20:02:02 <synalx> lol
Sep 05 20:02:55 <_buz> if having the gta02 is an option, i much prefer it to news
Sep 05 20:02:57 * CM could settle for just the cake now :D
Sep 05 20:03:07 <_buz> cake you dont eat simply goes stale
Sep 05 20:04:03 <cb22> the news i really want to know about is the smedia chip
Sep 05 20:04:05 <synalx> what are the keys for qemu?
Sep 05 20:04:05 <synalx> XD
Sep 05 20:04:09 <doc|work> mmmcake
Sep 05 20:04:16 <SpeedEvil> I randomly bumped the date for GTA02 on the neo1973 page to decembet
Sep 05 20:04:45 * _buz wonders which will be first, asus eee or gta02
Sep 05 20:04:54 <cb22> so... beryl on the gta02 anyone?
Sep 05 20:04:56 <synalx> hey, it works :D
Sep 05 20:05:01 <synalx> cb22: HAHAHA
Sep 05 20:05:03 <El_Salvador[Away> lol
Sep 05 20:05:04 <SpeedEvil> r
Sep 05 20:05:11 <synalx> cb22: connect beryl to the accelerometers
Sep 05 20:05:15 <cb22> hehe
Sep 05 20:05:17 * doc|work passes out pitchforks
Sep 05 20:05:17 <cb22> that would rock
Sep 05 20:05:18 <synalx> so that when you shake the openmoko the screen shakes in reverse
Sep 05 20:05:23 <doc|work> that *would* rock
Sep 05 20:05:25 <synalx> to dampen the effect
Sep 05 20:05:27 <abraxa_> cb22: I hate to be a penny pincher, but I figured I should link you to http://wsu.edu/~brians/errors/eatcake.html - might be nice to know
Sep 05 20:05:31 <synalx> or when you flip it over it flips the 3d cube
Sep 05 20:05:32 <synalx> XD
Sep 05 20:05:32 <doc|work> except when trying to sms on the bus
Sep 05 20:05:35 <synalx> that would RULE
Sep 05 20:06:17 <cb22> lol abraxa_ 
Sep 05 20:06:23 <doc|work> *stylus press* *miss because window has moved* *press* *miss* *press* *miss* *stab* *break*
Sep 05 20:06:25 <synalx> is qemu supposed to take forever to start up?
Sep 05 20:06:38 <cb22> synalx, yes, on a pentium 2 it will
Sep 05 20:06:49 <synalx> cb22: amd64 turion X2
Sep 05 20:06:52 <cb22> but seriously, are you running freebsd?>
Sep 05 20:06:57 <synalx> oh, hey, the progress bar is moving...
Sep 05 20:06:57 <synalx> nope
Sep 05 20:07:01 <synalx> gentoo 64 bit
Sep 05 20:07:10 <cb22> mm'k, cause with freebsd you have to kldload afs first
Sep 05 20:07:16 <cb22> that was my problem
Sep 05 20:08:18 <El_Salvador[Away> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Talk:OpenMoko_under_QEMU#calibration_problem
Sep 05 20:08:20 <El_Salvador[Away> solution?
Sep 05 20:09:07 <synalx> :D it's almost loaded!
Sep 05 20:09:08 <roh> El_Salvador[Away rebuild your qemu from latest sources. should be fixed
Sep 05 20:09:20 <El_Salvador[Away> good
Sep 05 20:09:26 <El_Salvador[Away> thanks
Sep 05 20:12:10 <synalx> man this emulation is sloooooooooow
Sep 05 20:12:11 <synalx> XD
Sep 05 20:12:22 <synalx> i'm guessing that's to be expected?
Sep 05 20:12:30 <SpeedEvil> yes
Sep 05 20:13:16 <roh> synalx depending on the machine youre on
Sep 05 20:13:18 <synalx> SpeedEvil: even to the point where it takes 5 minutes to open the dialer?
Sep 05 20:13:21 <hp__> synalx buy a faster PC :D
Sep 05 20:13:43 <synalx> uh
Sep 05 20:13:53 <synalx> model name      : AMD Turion(tm) 64 X2 Mobile Technology TL-50
Sep 05 20:13:53 <synalx> cpu MHz         : 1600.000
Sep 05 20:14:00 <cb22> pah, you need a nice c2d
Sep 05 20:14:06 <synalx> c2d?
Sep 05 20:14:06 <doc|work> ssht
Sep 05 20:14:07 <hp__> there you.. *evil grin*
Sep 05 20:14:18 <hp__> +go..
Sep 05 20:14:36 <synalx> is that slow? XD
Sep 05 20:14:39 <hp__> dual core 2.8Hz work ok with qemu here
Sep 05 20:15:03 <hp__> if you fix the click bug in qemu that is..
Sep 05 20:16:16 <synalx> click bug?
Sep 05 20:16:46 <hhf424> re
Sep 05 20:17:27 * hhf424 can not install vte, builthost broken
Sep 05 20:18:30 <synalx> this is unusably slow at the moment
Sep 05 20:18:37 <synalx> is it supposed to be like that
Sep 05 20:18:52 <CM> quemu is slower than the actual hw
Sep 05 20:18:59 <CM> At least on my amd 3000+
Sep 05 20:19:02 <synalx> yeah, but clicking a button takes 5 minutes
Sep 05 20:19:19 <CM> *lol*
Sep 05 20:19:27 <CM> Wasn't that slow when I tried it this summer
Sep 05 20:19:34 <synalx> yeah, i figured
Sep 05 20:19:39 <synalx> my processor is doing nothing
Sep 05 20:19:42 <synalx> just seems slow
Sep 05 20:19:48 <synalx> what are the qemu controls
Sep 05 20:19:52 <synalx> left click = touch?
Sep 05 20:20:17 <CM> Yes, and I think enter and space are aux and power
Sep 05 20:20:34 <synalx> hmm
Sep 05 20:20:37 <synalx> then this is really slow
Sep 05 20:20:37 <synalx> XD
Sep 05 20:20:59 <synalx> oh well
Sep 05 20:21:28 * synalx tells openmoko compile to go
Sep 05 20:21:44 <psymin> El_Salvador[Away, Thanks for the link to the wiki for the qemu issue I'm having .. didn't even need to ask :)
Sep 05 20:22:56 <hp__> synalx yeah when i tried 2007.2 it didn't calibrate my mouse clicks
Sep 05 20:23:14 <hp__> so you needed to start some program manualy to calibrate
Sep 05 20:23:39 <psymin> try right clicks instead of left clicks
Sep 05 20:23:59 <cb22> ^^ lol
Sep 05 20:24:55 <cw666> hp__: rm /etc/pointercal ?
Sep 05 20:25:36 <cw666> oh, nm, for qemu i doubt that suffices, i misread
Sep 05 20:25:37 <hp__> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Talk:OpenMoko_under_QEMU#calibration_problem
Sep 05 20:28:20 <psymin> hp__, -portrait made it line up for me
Sep 05 20:30:53 * hhf424 yawns
Sep 05 20:31:22 <synalx> what *is* bitbake anyways?
Sep 05 20:32:15 <psymin> synalx, interesting .. a google says its like portage?
Sep 05 20:33:08 <_buz> makes cake from bits
Sep 05 20:33:08 <_buz> SCNR
Sep 05 20:33:12 <synalx> lol
Sep 05 20:34:51 <hp__> [quote] BitBake is a simple tool for the execution of tasks. It is derived from Portage, which is the package management system used by the Gentoo Linux {/quote]
Sep 05 20:35:21 <synalx> sweet
Sep 05 20:35:33 <synalx> "execution of tasks" makes no sense though
Sep 05 20:35:42 <synalx> cron is a tool for execution of tasks, hahaha
Sep 05 20:35:45 <dcordes> bitbake is like a baking oven- for your computer
Sep 05 20:36:10 <synalx> lol
Sep 05 20:37:01 * hhf424 points out that a hammer also is a tool for executing tasks
Sep 05 20:37:32 * Hopscotch has an "office hammer" - 5kg
Sep 05 20:37:40 <ozarka> I may be late to this hate on bitbake discussion
Sep 05 20:37:42 <hhf424> even executing pepole, if required 
Sep 05 20:37:47 <synalx> lol
Sep 05 20:37:52 <ozarka> but this link give some justification:
Sep 05 20:37:52 <ozarka> http://bitbake.berlios.de/manual/ch01s02.html
Sep 05 20:38:12 <synalx> 4595 tasks
Sep 05 20:38:13 <synalx> whoa
Sep 05 20:38:17 <synalx> XD
Sep 05 20:39:44 <psymin> even uses python like portage?
Sep 05 20:40:19 <synalx> yeah
Sep 05 20:40:23 <ozarka> cron can use python, too
Sep 05 20:40:31 <ozarka> sadly, a hammer cannot
Sep 05 20:41:15 <synalx> but a python can use a hammer
Sep 05 20:41:18 <psymin> although .. a pyth .. damn
Sep 05 20:41:23 <synalx> XD
Sep 05 20:41:44 <bedboi> hi there 
Sep 05 20:41:47 <synalx> hi
Sep 05 20:41:55 <bedboi> is there any info about shipping time of the new batch?
Sep 05 20:45:52 <hhf424> bedboi: is there not a note on the openmoko shop?
Sep 05 20:50:53 <psymin> bedboi, unless you mean GTA02 as the new batch?
Sep 05 20:53:39 <fgau> hhf424: northern lowlands from the best side
Sep 05 20:55:35 <hhf424> fgau: whats up?
Sep 05 20:57:18 <hp__> i wonder if silverlight will be runable on embedded devices
Sep 05 20:58:02 <cb22> silverlight?
Sep 05 20:58:12 <cb22> the .net thing?
Sep 05 20:58:31 <pavelm> hi, everyone
Sep 05 20:58:37 <hhf424> ok, gone for sleep , tty all later
Sep 05 20:58:47 <fgau> hhf424: nothing?
Sep 05 20:59:11 <hp__> cb22 yup
Sep 05 20:59:44 <cb22> Microsoft® Silverlight™ is a cross-browser, cross-platform plug-in for delivering the next generation of .NET
Sep 05 20:59:45 <cb22> hmm
Sep 05 21:00:00 <cb22> by cross-platform i take it it works on 2000, xp and vista
Sep 05 21:00:10 <cb22> and cross-browser, ie6 and ie7
Sep 05 21:00:15 <emdete> so we port mono?
Sep 05 21:00:29 <ozarka> Not Vista.  You're being far too optimistic.
Sep 05 21:00:32 <cb22> s/port/compile/ ?
Sep 05 21:00:41 <cb22> hmm, true
Sep 05 21:00:43 <borg_> cb22: it works on mac
Sep 05 21:00:54 <goatmale> yay open moko
Sep 05 21:01:14 <cb22> goatmale, (...)
Sep 05 21:01:18 <cb22> nice nick :p
Sep 05 21:01:26 <emdete> cb22: is there a .bb? let me look....
Sep 05 21:01:28 <borg_> and it may work earlier on openmoko as flash
Sep 05 21:01:50 <cb22> flash videos are easy
Sep 05 21:01:59 <borg_> depends on how fast the mono people can port it
Sep 05 21:02:17 <cb22> simply make a plugin for the browser (yet to be built... :p) that takes youtube vids, gets the flv location and plays it with mplayer
Sep 05 21:02:20 <borg_> thats not about videos
Sep 05 21:02:22 <goatmale> I have a question. Is open moko Gnu/linux or just linux?
Sep 05 21:02:22 <aloril> goatmale: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (and also SH1, SH1_FAQ, Neo1973, Developer_preview and Neo1973_Hardware#GTA01Bv4 pages) (Hopefully these links answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.)
Sep 05 21:02:34 <cb22> goatmale, linux is a kernel
Sep 05 21:02:42 <goatmale> yar.
Sep 05 21:02:44 <cb22> like, you dont call an engine a car
Sep 05 21:03:14 <goatmale> well does it use busybox?
Sep 05 21:03:22 <borg_> it does
Sep 05 21:03:31 <borg_> so it does not use that much gnu tools
Sep 05 21:04:06 <goatmale> yay.
Sep 05 21:07:04 <goatmale> I know this isnt the place but I need help with busybox
Sep 05 21:08:04 <goatmale> oh
Sep 05 21:08:57 <pavelm> goatmale: I'm afraid this really is not the place. Maybe #busybox channel exists?
Sep 05 21:09:31 <goatmale> Its mereged with uclibc I think..
Sep 05 21:11:00 <hp__> cb22 M$ is porting it to linux they say
Sep 05 21:11:11 <cb22> yes, i saw
Sep 05 21:11:17 <cb22> unless it is opensource
Sep 05 21:11:18 <cb22> and small
Sep 05 21:11:20 <bedboi> any orders placed now will not be shipping before September 10, 2007: this is not telling when they are shipping
Sep 05 21:11:25 <cb22> i dont see it running
Sep 05 21:11:37 <bedboi> this is just a lower bound
Sep 05 21:11:37 <hp__> true.. its a long shot for sure
Sep 05 21:11:54 <bedboi> i guess i'll buy an a1200 then
Sep 05 21:12:39 <hp__> the a1200 is a bit old no?
Sep 05 21:12:43 <psymin> thats 5 days away right?
Sep 05 21:13:03 <bedboi> psymin: no the announce tells that "they will not ship BEFORE"
Sep 05 21:13:11 * psymin nods.
Sep 05 21:13:31 <bedboi> that's huge difference 
Sep 05 21:13:40 <psymin> Also the GTA01 is the developer version, I'm guessing that you might be wanting GTA02 .. 
Sep 05 21:13:57 <bedboi> psymin: i happen to be a developer :)
Sep 05 21:15:24 <ozarka> You don't want it, bedboi.
Sep 05 21:15:29 <hp__> bedboi.. active dev or.. laying low?
Sep 05 21:15:35 <psymin> gotcha, just assumed that the a1200 was a non-linux non-dev version
Sep 05 21:15:43 <ozarka> Ever since I got mine in Aug. I haven't had a chance to look at it.
Sep 05 21:15:53 <hp__> the a1200 is a linux dev..
Sep 05 21:16:35 <bedboi> hp__: I used to be quite active in gpe. if you don't have the device it is difficult to be active
Sep 05 21:16:36 <psymin> Oo
Sep 05 21:17:00 <hp__> bedboi yah to have hw is a bless..
Sep 05 21:17:01 <bedboi> hp__ that's exactly why i'm telling... it also ships with a good CPU 
Sep 05 21:17:07 * hp__ is also without a device 
Sep 05 21:17:17 <hp__> but i just bought me a nslu2 to tinker with a little :)
Sep 05 21:17:29 <hp__> bedboi 400Mhz :)
Sep 05 21:17:54 <bedboi> what about neo?
Sep 05 21:18:01 <bedboi> btw it lacks wifi
Sep 05 21:18:22 <pavelm> bedboi: you don't want a1200.
Sep 05 21:19:00 <bedboi> why that?
Sep 05 21:19:09 <bedboi> pavelm: is there something wrong with it?
Sep 05 21:19:32 <bedboi> the big problem is that i can't wait for one month (possibly more) for a neo
Sep 05 21:20:17 <pavelm> bedboi: they played with DRM so that it is hard to install your own kernel, and even your own apps.
Sep 05 21:21:05 <bedboi> hmm, i know there's some effort on http://www.openezx.org/
Sep 05 21:21:30 <hp__> bedboi why can't you wait?
Sep 05 21:21:37 <pavelm> yep, but you'll be breaking into your own cellphone.
Sep 05 21:21:40 <bedboi> hp__: because i have no phone.
Sep 05 21:21:52 <pavelm> where are you from?
Sep 05 21:22:01 <hp__> get an el cheapo phone in the meantime :)
Sep 05 21:22:09 <hp__> nokia S40 range
Sep 05 21:22:15 <hp__> for instance :)
Sep 05 21:22:15 <bedboi> i'm from italy, right now i'm based in usa
Sep 05 21:22:39 <bedboi> that's too bad, i have some motorola shitty phone from cingular
Sep 05 21:22:44 <bedboi> it sucks too much
Sep 05 21:23:04 <bedboi> it takes ages to load data from the sim card and it has shitty antenna
Sep 05 21:23:15 <pavelm> well, neo is not really usable as a phone yet...
Sep 05 21:23:27 <bedboi> cool
Sep 05 21:24:01 <pavelm> you can get some windows phone (see hh.org) and then just run linux on it.  It is probably cheaper than a1200, and as you are breaking in your own phone, anyway...
Sep 05 21:24:18 <pavelm> ...well but if you only want to play with applications maybe a1200 is not that bad...
Sep 05 21:25:26 <pavelm> does sms support in gsmd work for you?
Sep 05 21:25:47 <pavelm> sr=*anything* gives me +CMS ERROR: 321
Sep 05 21:25:51 <bedboi> what's the status right now? Can you place and receive calls?
Sep 05 21:26:52 <pavelm> almost :-). You can if 4h standby is okay for you... and I have shell script to ring for me.
Sep 05 21:27:02 <pavelm> ...but maybe 2007.2 snapshot is better...
Sep 05 21:27:24 <bedboi> 4h standby is too shitty, what's up with power managment?
Sep 05 21:28:05 <bedboi> it is just software issue or hardware?
Sep 05 21:28:20 <pavelm> bedboi: pm software is missing. hw should be ok.
Sep 05 21:28:32 <bedboi> ah ok
Sep 05 21:29:19 <psymin> bedboi, You can test out the software by using qemu if ya want :)  The wiki and svn make it quite easy.
Sep 05 21:36:34 <_diego_> gsmd crash all the way for me ^^
Sep 05 21:36:56 <pavelm> actually scaredycat's version seems to "work".
Sep 05 21:52:21 <aloril> (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Phase_1_Software_Testing]] [[Hardware:Neo1973:Alternate_Cases:Camera]] [[Translation]] [[Buying_Interest_List]] [[External_Feeds]] [[Getting_OpenMoko_working_on_host_with_Xephyr]] [[Getting_OpenMoko_working_on_host_with_Xephyr/it]] and other changes
Sep 05 22:03:43 <polz> argh
Sep 05 22:04:02 <polz> I've done an ipkg upgrade...
Sep 05 22:04:12 <cb22> uh oh
Sep 05 22:04:17 <polz> and now I get a hard lock if I restart X or gsmd
Sep 05 22:05:14 <mickeyl> Robert Schuster in da house?
Sep 05 22:05:17 <polz> and since the official repositories seem to be offline, ScaredyCat's repository is likely to blame
Sep 05 22:05:43 <polz> hehe, that's what I get for trying to "stay on the edge"
Sep 05 22:06:01 <cb22> staying on the edge is fine, you fell over :)
Sep 05 22:06:21 <polz> It's my fault anyway
Sep 05 22:06:43 <polz> if I were made from the right stuff, I'd have my own repository set up by now ;)
Sep 05 22:33:55 <ScaredyCat> don't be blaming my repo!
Sep 05 22:34:56 <pavelm> thanks for your repo, btw.
Sep 05 22:35:19 <ScaredyCat> no probs... 
Sep 05 22:35:44 <pavelm> are scumvm games actually playable on screen this small?
Sep 05 22:35:51 <ScaredyCat> although I cocked up earlier.. rsync'd with a delete in the wrong place...
Sep 05 22:35:53 <ScaredyCat> yes..
Sep 05 22:36:11 <ScaredyCat> I play monkey island and indiana jones regularly
Sep 05 22:36:40 <pavelm> :-) nice. I remember indiana jones from DOS days...
Sep 05 22:37:18 <ScaredyCat> hehe
Sep 05 22:37:46 <ScaredyCat> right .. bed time  .. night all
Sep 05 22:38:10 <pavelm> good night.
Sep 05 22:39:58 <satadru> So the iPhone is now $399... assuming that it is easy to unlock... perhaps openmoko could be ported to it... ;-)
Sep 05 22:40:30 <pavelm> stadru: $400+2years contract, AFAICT.
Sep 05 22:40:39 <andylockran> satadru: I'd hardly say easy to unlock..
Sep 05 22:41:24 <pavelm> plus openmoko will not be able to use multitouch features... so you are better with neo hw...
Sep 05 22:41:40 <cw666> pavelm: patent reasons?
Sep 05 22:41:42 <pavelm> but go wild, linux-on-iPhone will certainly get lots of publicity.
Sep 05 22:42:36 <pavelm> cw? No patents, AFAICT, just missing support in X and apps.
Sep 05 22:44:45 <cw666> pavelm: can the sensor even detect 2+ pressure points?
Sep 05 22:44:52 <cb22> um, what is multitouch used for anyways
Sep 05 22:44:58 <cb22> except resizing bloody images
Sep 05 22:45:16 * cb22 sees the huge amount of increase productivity
Sep 05 22:45:17 <psymin> cb22, two chicks at the same time .. .. can be using the gui?
Sep 05 22:45:20 <pavelm> cw: not on openmoko, AFAICT.
Sep 05 22:45:30 <cb22> psymin, heh
Sep 05 22:46:29 <synalx> cb22: multitouch -> pinch UI
Sep 05 22:46:45 <cb22> yes, but i just dont see the point
Sep 05 22:47:01 <cw666> pavelm: im not talking about sw, i mean can the *hardware* actually detect 2+ points of contact at once?
Sep 05 22:47:11 <cw666> many touch sensors will just give you an everage of a point inbetween
Sep 05 22:47:20 <pavelm> cb: point is that their sensor is capacitive, so it _works_, unlike stuff in neo
Sep 05 22:47:25 <synalx> iphone uses the pinch UI
Sep 05 22:47:37 <cb22> i'm talking about the pinch ui
Sep 05 22:47:40 <cb22> it just seems
Sep 05 22:47:40 <synalx> cw666: the hardware can't
Sep 05 22:47:44 <pavelm> cw: Yes. Actually, I believe iPhone will be able to sense your fingers _close_ to the phone.
Sep 05 22:47:48 <cb22> well, not that amazing
Sep 05 22:47:50 <synalx> cw666: that's cool
Sep 05 22:48:10 <cw666> iphone probably is capacitive, which IMO is way nicer and more duable
Sep 05 22:48:13 <pavelm> synalx: I don't think so. Capacitive sensors can do that, AFAIK.
Sep 05 22:48:19 <cw666> pavelm: they can :-)
Sep 05 22:48:34 <synalx> pavelm: even the one in the neo?
Sep 05 22:48:54 <cw666> i assume the neo's sensor is resistive 
Sep 05 22:48:59 <cb22> probably
Sep 05 22:49:25 <pavelm> synalx: no, the one in neo is resistive, AFAICT, so it detects only one point.
Sep 05 22:49:39 <synalx> ah okay
Sep 05 22:49:42 <pavelm> (I may be wrong. I never even seen iPhone. But I seen some synaptic touchpads).
Sep 05 22:49:53 <cb22> how does the touchscreen hardware 'know' to go to the middle of the two points
Sep 05 22:50:05 <cw666> cb22: it doesnt, electrically that's what happens
Sep 05 22:50:23 <cb22> right, so it actually thinks there is simply one in the middle?
Sep 05 22:50:27 <cw666> yes
Sep 05 22:50:39 <pavelm> cb: and it is not middle, if you apply different pressure to the two places. Try it.
Sep 05 22:50:41 <cw666> you only have two outputs, and X & Y
Sep 05 22:50:49 <cw666> well, and maybe a pressure output
Sep 05 22:50:51 <cb22> pavelm, yes, its quite fun :)
Sep 05 22:50:55 <cw666> i think the nokia's have that and use it
Sep 05 22:51:01 <cw666> do they can detect a stylus vs a finger
Sep 05 22:51:06 <cw666> that might be doable on the neo
Sep 05 22:51:30 <cb22> any idea why pressure makes a difference?
Sep 05 22:51:40 <cw666> cb22: difference in what?
Sep 05 22:51:48 <cb22> the location of the point
Sep 05 22:51:52 <cw666> cb22: you mean baising towards one point or another?
Sep 05 22:51:57 <cb22> yeah
Sep 05 22:52:06 <cw666> because more pressure means more current flows there
Sep 05 22:52:09 <pavelm> cw: I'd assume neo to have pressure info, yes.
Sep 05 22:52:23 <cw666> so that pressure point is a stronger influence
Sep 05 22:52:34 <cb22> right
Sep 05 22:52:46 <cw666> see a high school textbook on series vs parallel resistors :-)
Sep 05 22:53:30 <cb22> heh, here in south africa the lions eat all our textbooks :(
Sep 05 22:54:09 <pavelm> cb: wikipedia?
Sep 05 22:54:28 <pavelm> cb: lions obviously have not ate your internet connection, yet :-)
Sep 05 22:55:01 <cb22> nah, wireless :p
Sep 05 22:55:13 <cb22> although they like to eat up our bandwidth
Sep 05 22:55:21 <cb22> considering i have 512kb/s 
Sep 05 22:56:04 * pavelm would like to meet textbook-eating lion
Sep 05 22:56:24 <pavelm> (because it is still better than man-eating lion, and should be fun to look at)
Sep 05 22:57:25 <cb22> sure, come over, just try not to get mugged, raped and murdered on the way
Sep 05 22:57:34 <cw666> cb22: where in .za are you?
Sep 05 22:57:48 <cb22> cape town cw666 
Sep 05 22:57:48 <pavelm> ok, I guess people are still worse than lions.
Sep 05 22:57:57 <cb22> you been here?
Sep 05 22:58:22 <cw666> cb22: no, but when i lived in .nz there were a lot of .za immigrants i worked with
Sep 05 22:58:40 <cb22> yeah, most people go there or to aus
Sep 05 22:58:42 <cw666> northern transvaal sounds like a lot of bad news
Sep 05 22:58:49 <cw666> really bad news, all bad and no good news
Sep 05 22:58:52 <cb22> yip
Sep 05 22:58:58 <cb22> joberg and pretoria 
Sep 05 22:59:07 <cb22> cape town is still fairly safe
Sep 05 22:59:17 <cb22> compaired to those cities
Sep 05 22:59:57 <pavelm> "fairly safe" as in "have to carry gun but don't have to use it more than twice a month?"
Sep 05 23:00:14 <cb22> nah, more like 4 times a month
Sep 05 23:00:56 <pavelm> cb: come to czech republic, no lions, but you can only get robbed here, not murdered...
Sep 05 23:01:35 <pavelm> cb: that 4 times a month... that was joke, right?
Sep 05 23:01:42 <cb22> nah, thats no fun
Sep 05 23:01:49 <cb22> pavelm, yeah :)
Sep 05 23:03:25 <pavelm> how is the weather in cape town? around 0C in winter, around 30C in summer?
Sep 05 23:03:47 <cb22> nope, we have a nice stable climate
Sep 05 23:03:55 <cb22> its 12C now
Sep 05 23:04:09 <cb22> and gets up to 30 in summer, but normally around 20-25C
Sep 05 23:04:31 <cb22> too bad it doesnt snow though
Sep 05 23:05:49 <pavelm> snow is fun... it does not normally stay too long here, but sometimes it gets interesting.
Sep 05 23:06:30 <pavelm> (as in "buses stuck in snow", "cars stuck in snow" and even "horse almost stuck in snow")
Sep 05 23:06:36 <cb22> lol
Sep 05 23:06:39 <pavelm> Ok, I should get some sleep. Good night!
Sep 05 23:06:47 <cb22> heh same
Sep 05 23:06:50 <cb22> its 1am
Sep 05 23:06:53 <cb22> night
Sep 05 23:52:40 <aloril> (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Press_Coverage/es]] [[Getting_Started_with_your_Neo1973/fr]] [[Talk:OpenMoko_Local_Groups:_Norway]]
Sep 06 00:14:12 <Aria> Re, all.
Sep 06 00:23:29 <cb22> SpeedEvil, you've caused chaos :)
Sep 06 00:25:48 <SpeedEvil> how?
Sep 06 00:26:16 <cb22> someone has asked already on the wiki talk page
Sep 06 00:26:19 <cb22> about the date change
Sep 06 00:26:31 <SpeedEvil> I should probably back that up.
Sep 06 00:26:39 <SpeedEvil> with reasoning.
Sep 06 00:26:58 <cb22> reasoning like 'i chose it randomly' :)
Sep 06 00:27:38 <SpeedEvil> It's not going to be october.
Sep 06 00:27:47 <cb22> true
Sep 06 00:27:48 <SpeedEvil> December is as reasonable a guess as any.
Sep 06 00:28:03 <SpeedEvil> And if anyone with a clue actually updates it - bonus.
Sep 06 00:28:15 * rwhitby has always said January ...
Sep 06 00:35:53 <cdbot2> * * OM Bug 802 has been created by cwixon(AT)usa.net
Sep 06 00:35:54 <cdbot2> * * openmoko-dialer2 segfaults when first digit entered is '#'
Sep 06 00:35:55 <cdbot2> * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=802
Sep 06 01:04:00 <Akuma> hello
Sep 06 01:21:59 <hachi> the consumer version of the neo 1973, is this an allusion to new hardware, or just a stable software? Reason I ask is I want to get the Neo advanced, but fulfillment of my order seems unlikely to happen fast.
Sep 06 01:22:21 <Aria> GAT02. New hardware, stable software.
Sep 06 01:22:55 <hachi> so, if I order an advanced kit now, it may not arrive for a while, but I can't order it for the GAT02 yet?
Sep 06 01:23:38 <Aria> Right.
Sep 06 01:23:48 <Aria> Like most open source: "When's it gonna be ready?" "When it's done"
Sep 06 01:23:59 <SpeedEvil> It's going to be several months till GTA02 hardware
Sep 06 01:23:59 <hachi> well, I don't care so much about that
Sep 06 01:24:31 <hachi> all I want to know is, if I order the advanced kit now, and the new hardware comes out before I get my order
Sep 06 01:24:37 <hachi> am I still going to get the old phone
Sep 06 01:24:57 <SpeedEvil> Very unlikely.
Sep 06 01:25:20 <SpeedEvil> I mean - that the new version will be available that soon
Sep 06 01:25:22 <hachi> the thing is, I want to throw money at the project NOW... and not wait on that :)
Sep 06 01:26:25 <SpeedEvil> It's unfortunately not certain that an order now will result in even GTA01 hardware soon.
Sep 06 01:26:46 <SpeedEvil> Though the odds are probably not bad.
Sep 06 01:26:53 <SpeedEvil> Adn you will not be charged till delivery
Sep 06 01:27:24 <SpeedEvil> the direct.openmoko.com site says no hardware till Sep 10 - if that's accurate, and if that batch has already been presold, who knows.
Sep 06 01:27:35 <hachi> that's the other thing that scares me... I'd rather be charged now so I can't spend the money, but that's a bit awkward of a thing to ask
Sep 06 01:34:25 <cheriff> Hello, is the 'hold key' the power button?
Sep 06 01:34:50 <cheriff> as opposed to the aux button on top-left shoulder
Sep 06 01:35:34 <cheriff> which i assume are mapped to KEY_PHONE and KEY_PAUSE events, respectively?
Sep 06 01:52:41 <aloril> (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Phase_1_Software_Testing]] [[SettingsGUI]]
Sep 06 02:16:04 <cesarb> Is anyone else having build errors on binutils-cross-2.18?
Sep 06 02:16:17 <cesarb> (my build is breaking on it since yesterday)
Sep 06 02:16:28 <rwhitby> 64-bit?
Sep 06 02:16:33 <cesarb> rwhitby: yep
Sep 06 02:16:40 <rwhitby> there's the root of your problem ;-)
Sep 06 02:16:59 <rwhitby> it's working for 32-bit fine, but failing for 64-bit.
Sep 06 02:17:12 <cesarb> rwhitby: I'm not running a 32-bit distro on my 64-bit CPU... it would not make sense
Sep 06 02:17:27 <rwhitby> what application are you running which needs more than 4GB ram and thereby requires 64-bit?
Sep 06 02:17:40 <cesarb> rwhitby: none, but I like the extra registers
Sep 06 02:17:43 <ajmitch> having access to all 4GB is a useful start
Sep 06 02:18:02 <rwhitby> well, you choose your battles and optimisations I guess ...
Sep 06 02:18:20 <cesarb> rwhitby: don't forget that I have a neo and stubbornly used dash when everyone said I had to use bash ;-)
Sep 06 02:18:28 <cesarb> rwhitby: things won't get fixed if they don't break
Sep 06 02:18:41 * cesarb starts symlinking things to his local overlay to fix this one breakage
Sep 06 02:19:05 <rwhitby> cesarb: yep, I do know that you're one of the fixers, not the whiners.
Sep 06 02:19:30 <rwhitby> anyway, that's the status - the build is broken for 64-bit.
Sep 06 02:19:47 <cesarb> rwhitby: the whole reason I use linux is because if it breaks I can fix it ;-)
Sep 06 02:19:49 <ajmitch> excellent
Sep 06 02:20:03 <ajmitch> cesarb: what sort of errors?
Sep 06 02:20:24 <cesarb> ajmitch: the last one was "mv: cannot stat `/scratch/cesarb/src/openmoko/build/tmp/cross/lib/libiberty.a'"
Sep 06 02:20:46 * ajmitch is waiting for the update before the rebuild
Sep 06 02:26:04 <roh> hm.. i rather see a problem with #BB_NUMBER_THREADS .. if enabled it breaks the build for me..
Sep 06 02:26:29 <cesarb> roh: perhaps that's why it's disabled?
Sep 06 02:26:56 <roh> no. its just not default
Sep 06 02:27:05 <cesarb> rwhitby: it's installing into build/tmp/cross/lib64 instead of build/tmp/cross/lib
Sep 06 02:27:26 <roh> was fixed some time ago, and i think i even know what broke it.. need to get a grab at some oe-guru tomorrow
Sep 06 02:27:28 <rwhitby> yep, the #oe folks are aware of that.
Sep 06 02:27:36 <cesarb> rwhitby: and do_stage wants to move build/tmp/cross/lib/libiberty.a into build/tmp/cross/arm-angstrom-linux-gnueabi/lib
Sep 06 02:29:26 <cesarb> rwhitby: a hacky solution would be to change it into "mv -f ${CROSS_DIR}/lib/libiberty.a ${CROSS_DIR}/${TARGET_SYS}/lib || mv -f ${CROSS_DIR}/lib64/libiberty.a ${CROSS_DIR}/${TARGET_SYS}/lib"
Sep 06 02:29:56 <rwhitby> cesarb: best to look in the OE bugtracker, and update the bug there.  I won't be involved in diagnosing or fixing this.
Sep 06 02:30:00 <cesarb> rwhitby: do you have any better ideas? if not, I will add that to my local overlay and go on... I still want to see if I can manage to hack into gsmd today
Sep 06 02:30:06 <cesarb> rwhitby: ok
Sep 06 02:33:12 <roh> cesarb ah.. you know you can do that on your host now?
Sep 06 02:33:15 <roh> http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/openmoko-uboot/2007-September/000109.html
Sep 06 02:34:12 <cesarb> roh: yeah, but since the bug I want to work in is a timing issue, it's best to try on the device itself
Sep 06 02:34:23 <cesarb> s/in/on/
Sep 06 02:34:23 <apt> cesarb meant: roh: yeah, but sonce the bug I want to work in is a timing issue, it's best to try on the device itself
Sep 06 02:34:28 <cesarb> urgh
Sep 06 02:34:47 <cesarb> roh: not to mention that the bug manifests itself when the dialer tries to initialize the modem...
Sep 06 02:34:47 <roh> i see
Sep 06 02:35:25 * cesarb still trying to figure out what the GSMD_FD_WRITE trickery is trying to do on atcmd.c
Sep 06 02:39:25 <cesarb> yay, the build continued... should be ready tomorrow :D
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Sep 06 02:59:56 2007