**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Sep 08 02:59:57 2007
Sep 08 03:01:10 <cesarb> I increased the ccache maximum size, so next time I hope it will build much faster
**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Sep 08 03:22:14 2007
Sep 08 03:35:55 <dotmef> cesarb - I've just remounted my build partition as noatime (been meaning to do this)
Sep 08 03:36:18 <dotmef> cesarb - and run a "time make update setup openmoko-devel-image"
Sep 08 03:37:07 <dotmef> cesarb - will see what the improvement is. full builds are usually 10h+, I think
Sep 08 03:37:45 <cesarb> dotmef: you run setup after update?
Sep 08 03:38:01 <cesarb> dotmef: isn't setup meant to be run only once (the first time you use mokomakefile)?
Sep 08 03:38:34 <dotmef> cesarb - dunno - just going by the moko-makefile doco
Sep 08 03:39:24 <dotmef> cesarb - it made sense to me that if I'm running an update that a "setup" might have to be done afterwards
Sep 08 03:39:34 <rwhitby> should be only once, or after a major structural change
Sep 08 03:39:52 <rwhitby> usually, just "make update image" will do
Sep 08 03:40:27 <dotmef> rwhitby, cesarb: ah ok. thx
Sep 08 03:40:30 * cesarb usually runs "make update", "make build-qemu", "make openmoko-devel-tools", and "make openmoko-devel-image", one at a time (sometimes the later three together)
Sep 08 03:40:39 <cesarb> yay finished
Sep 08 03:41:42 <rwhitby> cesarb: only update-makefile and setup are the ones that need to be separate.  update, tools, image, build-qemu can all be in the one make command
Sep 08 03:42:29 <cesarb> rwhitby: I like seeing the output of the openembedded output (to see if there's some change which could make my local overlay break), which is why I always separate it
Sep 08 03:42:39 <rwhitby> nod
Sep 08 03:42:47 <dotmef> rwhitby: what do the moko-devel-tools give one?
Sep 08 03:43:23 <rwhitby> enough for running devirginator
Sep 08 03:43:29 <rwhitby> dfu and openocd
Sep 08 03:43:52 <dotmef> rwhitby: so pointless if you don't have a debug board?
Sep 08 03:44:37 <rwhitby> flash-neo-local uses the dfu-utils-native it builds
Sep 08 03:44:43 <cesarb> dotmef: it gives you dfu-util, which you need to flash
Sep 08 03:45:04 <dotmef> cesarb - I thought I got that anyway with openmoko-devel-image
Sep 08 03:47:13 <cesarb> dotmef: no, openmoko-devel-image only gets you the rootfs (and as a side effect the kernel)
Sep 08 03:48:18 <cesarb> dotmef: ok, now I got init ;-)
Sep 08 03:48:36 <dotmef> cesarb: w000000000t! :D
Sep 08 03:55:32 * dotmef leaves his build to grind away
Sep 08 03:59:18 <rwhitby> yeah, image doesn't even get you uboot at the moment
Sep 08 04:05:41 <cworth> Ouch. And after all of that waiting:
Sep 08 04:05:53 <cworth> mtn:  bytes in | bytes out |      certs in |     revs in
Sep 08 04:05:53 <cworth> mtn:    19.7 M |     2.2 M | 19,324/20,768 | 4,779/5,135
Sep 08 04:05:53 <cworth> terminate called after throwing an instance of 'informative_failure'
Sep 08 04:05:53 <cworth>   what():  error: wanted 1 rows got 0 in query: SELECT data FROM revisions WHERE id = ?
Sep 08 04:05:53 <cworth> mtn: fatal signal: Aborted
Sep 08 04:05:54 <cworth> this is almost certainly a bug in monotone.
Sep 08 04:06:38 <roh> smells like it
Sep 08 04:06:48 <roh> what have you done to get so many revisions on a bunch?
Sep 08 04:07:51 <cworth> Just trying to update with MokoMakefile after being away for a while.
Sep 08 04:08:33 <rwhitby> if you don't have local changes, and have a supported version of monotone, it's often better to blow away OE.mtn and download the latest snapshot
Sep 08 04:11:14 <aloril> (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Wish_List_-_OpenMoko_Ringtones_and_Sounds]]
Sep 08 04:15:04 <cesarb> how do I make openembedded rebuild the Packages.gz files after building a package?
Sep 08 04:16:38 <rwhitby> bitbake package-index
Sep 08 04:17:20 <cesarb> rwhitby: thx (is that useful enough for a new mokomakefile target?)
Sep 08 04:18:58 <cesarb> rwhitby: hm, no need to, I can see "make build-package-package-index" does that quite nicely
Sep 08 04:20:25 <cesarb> urgh, predictably it tried to restart gsmd, thus killing the phone
Sep 08 04:20:35 * cesarb hopes this will not result in fs corruption
Sep 08 04:31:27 <cesarb> yeah, my patch changes things alright...
Sep 08 04:31:43 <cesarb> It made the icons bar at the top disappear
Sep 08 04:31:57 <cesarb> And it does seem to avoid the back-to-back issue at ombug 766
Sep 08 05:06:41 <bedboi> anyone of you knows a somewhat portable way of getting the mac address of a device?
Sep 08 05:07:23 <bedboi> right now i'm using libnet_get_hwaddr but i want to get rid of libnet
Sep 08 05:29:50 <roh> bedboi /sys/class/net/<device>/address and addr_len
Sep 08 05:33:13 <bedboi> roh: that's not the most portable way to do 
Sep 08 05:38:17 <roh> so what? portable is not always the best idea
Sep 08 05:39:21 <roh> or do you also write your makefiles in bsdmake compliant?
Sep 08 05:42:29 <roh> no.. really.. what are you trying to do?
Sep 08 05:47:04 <bedboi> dirty stuff with packet forging
Sep 08 05:54:37 <cesarb> I think I found an interesting thing on gsmd's code
Sep 08 05:55:03 <cesarb> Looks like it will _always_ pipeline the commands, unless the modem's buffer gets full
Sep 08 05:55:15 <cesarb> See ombug 766 for the details
Sep 08 06:05:13 * rwhitby ipkg upgrades from buildhost
Sep 08 06:11:35 <aloril> (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[MokoMakefile]]
Sep 08 06:32:14 <anticw> cesarb: ok, w/ your patch it works even less now :-/
Sep 08 06:38:38 <anticw> cesarb: (actually, i have local changes, i should isolate those first)
Sep 08 06:54:52 <ixs> rwhitby: did you recently do a build with your mokomakefile? I'm not getting uboot images anymore.
Sep 08 06:54:58 <ixs> ever seen that?
Sep 08 07:14:28 * rwhitby confirms that ipkg upgrade from buildhost is currently fatal
Sep 08 07:14:46 <rwhitby> ixs: uboot is not build as part of openmoko-devel-image
Sep 08 07:18:18 <ixs> rwhitby: but it was before IIRC.
Sep 08 07:19:48 <rwhitby> yes, it was.
Sep 08 07:20:24 <rwhitby> but then everyone complained about having to build uboot just to make a kernel image, so someone in OM worked out how to make a kernel image without building all of uboot
Sep 08 07:20:52 <rwhitby> some people complain the build takes to long, others complain that things are not built ;-)
Sep 08 07:25:46 <ixs> rwhitby: :-) okay.
Sep 08 07:25:59 <ixs> rwhitby: do you know what I have to type then to have uboot built?
Sep 08 07:26:10 <rwhitby> make package-build-uboot-openmoko
Sep 08 07:26:17 <ixs> thx
Sep 08 07:34:04 <Sup3rkiddo> isnt it uboot-gta01?
Sep 08 07:34:39 <Obri> i think it is make build-package-uboot-openmoko
Sep 08 07:35:02 <rwhitby> yeah, that's it
Sep 08 07:35:23 <rwhitby> let's see if it builds ...
Sep 08 07:35:29 <rwhitby> nope
Sep 08 07:36:11 <Sup3rkiddo> oh, my bad then
Sep 08 07:36:14 <Sup3rkiddo> sorry
Sep 08 07:36:26 <rwhitby> Sup3rkiddo: it used to be that
Sep 08 07:37:38 <Sup3rkiddo> rwhitby, ah ok....been outta action for a while...
Sep 08 07:38:25 <Basheri> suihq ja sit cs
Sep 08 07:38:33 <Basheri> vattu
Sep 08 07:38:35 <Basheri> sorry
Sep 08 08:04:57 <Hopscotch> good morning
Sep 08 08:05:37 <blindcoder> moin
Sep 08 08:06:00 <tuukkah> Basheri ;-)
Sep 08 08:06:16 <tuukkah> moinmoin :-)
Sep 08 08:11:16 <aloril> (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Main_Page/es]] [[NAND_bad_blocks]] [[OpenMoko_Local_Groups:_Oslo]]
Sep 08 08:18:51 <torpor> hiya
Sep 08 08:19:00 <torpor> sup folks?
Sep 08 08:20:23 <keesj> cd
Sep 08 08:52:37 <jeddy3> morning
Sep 08 08:55:07 <jeddy3> hmm why isn't bitbake building dependencies as ipks? isn't it supposed to?
Sep 08 08:57:04 <mbuf> jeddy3, because it feels its baked enough for a day, and it is tired? (just kidding)
Sep 08 08:58:11 <torpor> great my build is done .. 
Sep 08 09:01:34 <matsimoto> hi
Sep 08 09:02:04 <polz> hello.
Sep 08 09:03:36 <matsimoto> my mokomakefile crashes with: /home/moko/build/tmp/staging/arm-angstrom-linux-gnueabi/lib/libicui18n.so: undefined reference to `operator delete(void*)@GLIBCXX_3.4' any hints ?
Sep 08 09:06:53 <torpor> matsimoto: rebuild glibc
Sep 08 09:07:02 <rwhitby> jeddy3: it only builds dependencies as ipks for meta packages.  See meta/openmoko-feed.bb for how we do it for the openmoko-feed package
Sep 08 09:07:48 <matsimoto> torpor: I am fairly new to this, could you tll me how -- make clean-package-glibc ?
Sep 08 09:07:52 <jeddy3> rwhitby: ah, thanks
Sep 08 09:10:49 <jeddy3> rwhitby: basically, if i inherit meta in a package it will work as i wanted?
Sep 08 09:12:27 <rwhitby> I expect so
Sep 08 09:12:46 <rwhitby> best to do a task, then a meta package which depends on the task
Sep 08 09:12:57 <jeddy3> nice thanks
Sep 08 09:12:57 <jeddy3> nod
Sep 08 09:12:58 <rwhitby> make the task something useful for not only openmoko
Sep 08 09:13:11 <torpor> matsimoto: bitbake -c mrproper glibc 
Sep 08 09:13:24 <rwhitby> (i.e. something like task-samba-server or something like that)
Sep 08 09:13:26 <matsimoto> torpor: tanks
Sep 08 09:14:45 <jeddy3> rwhitby: yes, now it's building ipks like no tomorrow :)
Sep 08 09:36:04 <PBeck> hallo
Sep 08 09:42:08 <tuukkah> is it normal for the jffs2 kernel module to give a lot of warnings when mounting an image on a desktop computer?
Sep 08 09:43:07 <tuukkah> "jffs2_scan_eraseblock(): Magic bitmask 0x1985 not found at" and "JFFS2 notice: (31336) read_dnode: node CRC failed on dnode at"
Sep 08 09:47:41 <shiversc> please help me http://www.pennergame.de/ref.php?refid=9290332
Sep 08 09:49:14 <tuukkah> shiversc, wtf is that?
Sep 08 09:50:03 <tuukkah> spam...
Sep 08 09:50:05 <rwhitby> that'd be hit and run spam
Sep 08 09:50:45 <rwhitby> no person who immediately joins the channel is smart enough to give a pastebin in the first message :-)
Sep 08 09:50:54 <tuukkah> heh
Sep 08 10:06:57 <CIA-23> openmoko: 03laforge * r2943 10/trunk/src/target/u-boot/patches/uboot-s3c24xx_multi_serial.patch: sync up with recent u-boot which already initializes multi-serial from lib_arm/board.c
Sep 08 10:12:17 <aloril> (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Current_events]]
Sep 08 10:30:21 <SpeedEvil> http://www.secondlifeherald.com/slh/2007/09/afternoon-delig.html ...
Sep 08 10:30:24 <SpeedEvil> oops
Sep 08 10:30:51 <SpeedEvil> Sigh. Hate it when I do that. /me is tired.
Sep 08 10:31:53 <Psi> i found alsamixer today while playing with the neo
Sep 08 10:31:58 <Psi> so nice to have a working volume control
Sep 08 10:32:22 <SpeedEvil> And so many of them.
Sep 08 10:47:01 <Ghiottone> zzz mornin' all
Sep 08 10:47:17 <zash_se> mornin'
Sep 08 10:51:45 <rwhitby> Ghiottone: how can we get your new packages into OE ?
Sep 08 10:52:21 <rwhitby> (so that we can then add them to task/openmoko-feed.bb and they automatically appear in the standard feeds whenever mickeyl runs the builder)
Sep 08 10:54:08 <Ghiottone> rwhitby, glad to hear that. Which packages do you want in?
Sep 08 11:01:06 <rwhitby> Ghiottone: why not all of them?
Sep 08 11:02:08 <rwhitby> (note that I haven't run any of them yet, cause the latest ipkg upgrade from buildhost hosed my two neos)
Sep 08 11:02:48 <Ghiottone> rwhitby, hosed? why?
Sep 08 11:03:20 <rwhitby> hangs at "starting the UI".  It's too late here to debug it, so they're staying that way until tomorrow.
Sep 08 11:03:47 <Ghiottone> rwhitby, I have built ipkg-link and synergy from OE
Sep 08 11:04:07 <Ghiottone> rwhitby, so for those it would be enough to add their name to the feed
Sep 08 11:04:32 <Ghiottone> rwhitby, note that synergy is not yet usable, until I find a way to display the cursor on the Neo, at least
Sep 08 11:05:05 <tuukkah> rwhitby, i saw someone report a freeze on /etc/init.d/gsmd stop http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Phase_1_Software_Testing#GSM_9
Sep 08 11:05:28 <Ghiottone> rwhitby, the free42 package comes for the bb recipe that quicksand already submitted in OE bugs
Sep 08 11:05:38 <Ghiottone> rwhitby, reassembled into a bb file
Sep 08 11:06:22 <Ghiottone> rwhitby, for SettingsGUI, I am fixing a new recipe (completely made by me) to include new icon and get rid of a .pyo bug
Sep 08 11:07:03 <Ghiottone> rwhitby, and last for ipkgorphan, I have to submit both source code and recipe
Sep 08 11:07:11 <Ghiottone> rwhitby, what should I do?
Sep 08 11:11:54 <Ghiottone> rwhitby, as for the bug, tuukkah is probably right, if you added a /etc/init.d/gsmd restart at the start of the X session as was suggested some days ago
Sep 08 11:12:53 <tuukkah> there's a suggested workaround by LaF0rge in the bug report, let me see if it makes a difference here
Sep 08 11:13:43 <Ghiottone> lunch time, bbl
Sep 08 11:14:11 <Ghiottone> rwhitby, if you have to go, drop me an email. My username on the wiki is Alessandro
Sep 08 11:23:37 <rwhitby> Ghiottone: when the bb recipes are ready, attach them to the OE bugtracker, and let me know which bug Id's they are.
Sep 08 11:23:53 <rwhitby> on the second neo, I removed the gsmd restart.  it still froze
Sep 08 11:24:02 <squalyl> Hi all
Sep 08 11:24:57 <rwhitby> Ghiottone: for ipkg-orphan, we can put the source somewhere (perhaps even in OE if it is small) and add the recipe.
Sep 08 11:25:15 <rwhitby> I have added ipkg-link, and am adding synergy now.
Sep 08 11:25:35 <rwhitby> I used free42 on the Nokia N800, so I will be interested in getting that in OE.
Sep 08 11:25:53 <rwhitby> bbinab (be back in next ad break)
Sep 08 11:26:17 <squalyl> I'm currently having build issues with glibc. Do you have too?
Sep 08 11:29:00 <squalyl> here is the bug: http://pastebin.org/1972
Sep 08 11:31:36 <Ghiottone> back
Sep 08 11:31:50 <Ghiottone> rwhitby, the OE bug for free42 is http://bugs.openembedded.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2920
Sep 08 11:34:31 <Ghiottone> rwhitby, for ipkg-orphan and SettingsGUI I'll fix a few issues and open a bug in OE. the source of ipkgorphan is one .c file
Sep 08 11:35:57 <Ghiottone> rwhitby, for synergy, I would like to tweak it to get it usable, but I still don't know if there is a way to show the cursor on moko'screen. do you know of any?
Sep 08 11:39:05 <Marcel_M> Ghiottone: you can try setting it in /etc/matchbox/session 
Sep 08 11:40:42 <Ghiottone> Marcel_M, that -use_cursor no ?
Sep 08 11:41:26 <tuukkah> i changed that to yes but nothing seems to have changed
Sep 08 11:41:37 <Ghiottone> Marcel_M, thanks. I'll give it a try. But I guess I will need something more dynamic to let both use with synergy and normal finger mode
Sep 08 11:41:50 <rwhitby> Ghiottone: thx
Sep 08 11:42:53 <Marcel_M> i think so i´m trying it right now
Sep 08 11:44:51 <Ghiottone> I guess it is -hide-cursor agrument in /etc/X11/Xserver
Sep 08 11:46:27 <Ghiottone> mmm no change
Sep 08 11:46:33 <Marcel_M> i can see the mouse-pointer with setting to SHOWCURSOR="yes" in /etc/matchbox/session 
Sep 08 11:48:52 <Ghiottone> w00t!
Sep 08 11:48:59 <Ghiottone> Marcel_M, works!
Sep 08 11:49:10 <Marcel_M> great
Sep 08 11:49:22 <tuukkah> i needed to make both changes
Sep 08 11:49:41 <Ghiottone> It is fun to move the cursor on the neo with my laptop touchpad! :)
Sep 08 11:49:49 <Ghiottone> I made both changes as well
Sep 08 11:49:56 <Marcel_M> :-)
Sep 08 11:49:59 <tuukkah> yeah synergy is very cool
Sep 08 11:50:13 <Ghiottone> I wonder if there is a way to enable both without restarting X
Sep 08 11:50:37 <tuukkah> Ghiottone, or even one of them, we could perhaps make the other change static
Sep 08 11:51:07 <Ghiottone> if you want to play with it you can build synergy from OE or get it from my repo (until it is included in OM buildhost)
Sep 08 11:51:38 <Ghiottone> tuukkah, I wonder if maybe both changes are needed or they would not have been there
Sep 08 11:53:34 <tuukkah> it can also be unintended
Sep 08 11:54:58 * Marcel_M just changed /etc/matchbox/session
Sep 08 11:55:23 <tuukkah> "libmokogsmd: Unable to connect to gsmd, trying to start it
Sep 08 11:55:23 <tuukkah> Stopping GSM daemon: " - this causes crashes even if i don't have the restart line
Sep 08 11:55:33 <Marcel_M> s/just/only
Sep 08 11:56:03 <Psi> hm.. has there been any 2007.2 build with a working dialer? (For when i show the neo to people)
Sep 08 11:56:49 <Ghiottone> I'll try to put -hide-cursor in again
Sep 08 11:56:52 <tuukkah> if i only change xserver, i can see the cursor until matchbox starts, naturally
Sep 08 11:57:19 <Marcel_M> Psi: http://buildhost.automated.it/OM2007.2/OpenMoko-scaredycat-openmoko-devel-image-glibc-ipk-P1-August-Snapshot-20070903-fic-gta01.rootfs.jffs2 should work
Sep 08 11:57:36 <Psi> thanks, ill give it a go
Sep 08 11:59:02 <tuukkah> i hate vi :-( how did i join lines again?
Sep 08 12:00:44 <Ghiottone> J
Sep 08 12:00:59 <Ghiottone> tuukkah, Shift + j
Sep 08 12:01:29 <Ghiottone> it works with -hide-cursor present
Sep 08 12:01:33 <Marcel_M> Psi: maybe you neet to modify /etc/matchbox/session like sacacis said
Sep 08 12:01:33 <tuukkah> heh, thanks :-)
Sep 08 12:01:34 <nobody96> moin
Sep 08 12:02:14 <Ghiottone> so I guess it is enough to set show cursor to yes in the session file
Sep 08 12:02:34 <Ghiottone> and that for a dynamic change I should look at the matchbox website
Sep 08 12:05:37 <Ghiottone> the Neo is on the first page of matchbox project :)
Sep 08 12:05:40 <Psi> Marcel_M, where did he say that?
Sep 08 12:06:53 <Marcel_M> i think some weeks ago 
Sep 08 12:09:33 <tuukkah> Ghiottone, ok now i can see the cursor with -hide-cursor present too. but not straight away, i need to start some app first or something
Sep 08 12:10:32 <Marcel_M> you need to add /etc/init.d/gsmd stop; /etc/init.d/gsmd start between openmoko-today and /etc/init.d/gsmd stop; /etc/init.d/gsmd start
Sep 08 12:10:51 <Ghiottone> tuukkah, so maybe X server did not show it at first but after that matchbox got some work to do it told X to display it...
Sep 08 12:11:25 * Marcel_M puts a short sleep command after gsmd stop and start 
Sep 08 12:11:45 <Marcel_M> so it works most of the time
Sep 08 12:11:45 <tuukkah> Marcel_M, then again those lines make the kernel crash
Sep 08 12:11:50 <Psi> Marcel_M, ok, thanks
Sep 08 12:11:52 <Marcel_M> ahhh
Sep 08 12:12:05 <Marcel_M> didt try it with the newer images
Sep 08 12:12:31 <Marcel_M> it works with scaredy cat images from 3.9.2007
Sep 08 12:12:34 <tuukkah> i'm testing atm but it would seem that the suggestion to remove "console=ttySAC0,115200" stops the crashes
Sep 08 12:13:24 <tuukkah> i'm using uImage-2.6.22.5-moko11-r2-fic-gta01.bin
Sep 08 12:14:01 * Marcel_M too
Sep 08 12:17:10 <Maledictus> tuukkah: where can one get that image?
Sep 08 12:17:38 <Marcel_M> Psi: if you do an ipkg upgrade you should comment-out  the gsmd start stop lines before you reboot 
Sep 08 12:18:02 <Psi> ok
Sep 08 12:18:50 <tuukkah> Maledictus, http://buildhost.openmoko.org/OM2007.2/tmp/deploy/glibc/images/fic-gta01/
Sep 08 12:20:44 <Maledictus> ah, thanks!
Sep 08 12:23:59 <aloril> (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Community_nominees_for_GTA02_P0]] [[Wish_List_-_OpenMoko_Ringtones_and_Sounds]] [[Wishlist_-_Hardware:_Digital_compass]]
Sep 08 12:45:38 <thomasg> hm, who fixed the "Answer All"-problems of gmail in the mailing list - was it gmail or was it fixed on list-side?
Sep 08 12:50:01 <Ghiottone> yay!!! finally the do_rm_work of webkit-gkt!!
Sep 08 12:50:33 <tuukkah> Ghiottone, do_rm_work?
Sep 08 12:51:03 <Ghiottone> yep! from 150MB of free space to 4GB in a few minutes!
Sep 08 12:51:32 <Ghiottone> and counting...
Sep 08 12:51:49 <Ghiottone> it seems that I finally managed to build all the base packages 
Sep 08 12:52:36 <Ghiottone> tuukkah, rm_work is a configuration parameter of local.conf that removes the content of the work dir after it is no longer needed during make openmoko-devel-image
Sep 08 12:52:57 <tuukkah> oh, i see
Sep 08 12:53:24 <Ghiottone> very useful as my OM tree has grown up to more than 12GB
Sep 08 13:01:44 <mewt> dunno if it's the place to ask, but is tehre something wrong with the device owners list ?
Sep 08 13:01:52 <mewt> cos i havent received a single email in days now
Sep 08 13:02:42 <tuukkah> mewt, you can see the archives here: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/device-owners/2007-September/date.html
Sep 08 13:03:56 <mewt> ok so i definately havent been recieving emails
Sep 08 13:04:43 <mewt> should i do anything to fix it ?
Sep 08 13:05:19 <Ghiottone> you could try to get to your membership page
Sep 08 13:05:49 <Ghiottone> to see if your account is still valid on that list
Sep 08 13:06:52 <mewt> aye aye sir!
Sep 08 13:09:23 <sagacis> Anybody else having problems with recent images?  I've used the Scaredycat images and the nslu2 image.  They all are missing panel icons and half the time crash on boot (during the startup sound).
Sep 08 13:09:55 <Obri> sagacis: try http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=788
Sep 08 13:10:00 <Psi> did you erase rootfs/uimage first?
Sep 08 13:10:18 <tuukkah> #788 can be the crash part
Sep 08 13:11:05 <tuukkah> now that there's a solution for that, what next?
Sep 08 13:12:44 <Elrond> stefan_schmidt - BTW: Has laforge found someone to maintain gsmd?
Sep 08 13:12:49 <sagacis> I erased rootfs and uimage first
Sep 08 13:13:28 <CM> sagacis: There's lots of issues with the latest images for me too
Sep 08 13:13:53 <CM> Last one somewhat reliable for me was scaredycat-0903
Sep 08 13:14:03 <CM> :(
Sep 08 13:14:27 <Elrond> CM - So the image on buildhost is not very useable?
Sep 08 13:14:50 <tuukkah> CM, what kind of issues?
Sep 08 13:19:22 <sagacis> I've also been unable to build for over a week.
Sep 08 13:19:34 <sagacis> unreliable download connections, wierd localization issues
Sep 08 13:22:38 <CM> Elrond: I haven't tried the ones on the build host, but I've build the standard images myself
Sep 08 13:22:55 <no_mind> anyone  working on reducing the boting time of openmoko ?
Sep 08 13:22:55 <no_mind> booting*
Sep 08 13:23:14 <CM> tuukkah: No sound, menu crashing because of missing icons, unable to use gsmd, unable to power off
Sep 08 13:23:19 <serenity> hi
Sep 08 13:23:28 <serenity> i found these timeline http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GTA02#.22Phase_2.22_.28GTA02.2C_.22Mass_Market.22.29 is it official?
Sep 08 13:23:54 <Elrond> CM - And they're not that useable?
Sep 08 13:23:56 <CM> no_mind: Not yet, but I think some people were looking at upstart and such
Sep 08 13:24:05 <no_mind> Aha i got the slogan for openmoko
Sep 08 13:24:10 <tuukkah> CM, haven't seen the first two with the images myself
Sep 08 13:24:24 <no_mind> openmoko! nothing official about it!!
Sep 08 13:24:32 <CM> Elrond: No, my images work bad. Last good one was scaredycats from last weekend, linked here recently
Sep 08 13:24:32 <serenity> ;)
Sep 08 13:24:42 <CM> no_mind: Hehe
Sep 08 13:25:16 <Elrond> CM - What exactly is "bad"?
Sep 08 13:25:48 <CM> gsmd hangs hard
Sep 08 13:26:12 <CM> I can't call, so I tried to do a /etc/init.d/gsmd restart and it locked everything up
Sep 08 13:26:19 <tuukkah> well that's #788
Sep 08 13:26:38 <CM> Ok. Then when I started the dialer, the menu disappered
Sep 08 13:26:46 <CM> And when I closed it X crashed
Sep 08 13:27:04 <Elrond> CM - Yuck. :-|
Sep 08 13:27:20 <Elrond> Okay, I'll keep 2007.1 for another week or so.
Sep 08 13:27:23 <CM> ssh'd in and managed to restart it, but it sure doesn't feel like it's working
Sep 08 13:27:38 <CM> The images were better off a week ago
Sep 08 13:28:13 <Elrond> Ahh.
Sep 08 13:28:33 <tuukkah> hmm, i see that i can use the panel to switch from other apps to Today but not from Today to other apps
Sep 08 13:29:20 <tuukkah> instead, i need to go to the list of running apps and press the left-most tool icon
Sep 08 13:30:41 <Elrond> CM - I still delay the .1 -> .2 every week. ;o)
Sep 08 13:32:19 <CM> Elrond: Hehe, well, guess it's time for you to bite the bullet soon ;)
Sep 08 13:32:39 <Elrond> CM - Not really. My main tools run on python. :-)
Sep 08 13:32:56 <Elrond> CM - I just want to play a little with .2 sometime.
Sep 08 13:33:05 <CM> Ok
Sep 08 13:33:16 <zwerg> Hi there.
Sep 08 13:33:25 <Elrond> And it's stupid, that gllin is oabi only.
Sep 08 13:33:44 <no_mind> Elrond: which tools ?
Sep 08 13:34:00 <CM> Elrond: Yes, that's really anoying. Why can't they just get out an eabi version. Sloooooooowwww....
Sep 08 13:34:10 <Elrond> no_mind - I have some tools to talk to the HH. I really need to merge them into sphyrna soon.
Sep 08 13:34:45 <Elrond> CM - Right. Is there any way to convert oabi binaries to eabi?
Sep 08 13:35:04 <Elrond> (In the old days, I converted aout statically linked binaries to elf...)
Sep 08 13:35:16 <no_mind> Elrond: whats HH ?
Sep 08 13:35:25 <Elrond> no_mind - HammerHead. The gps on the gta01
Sep 08 13:39:07 <no_mind> Elrond: cool
Sep 08 13:39:07 <no_mind> Elrond: so you using superkiddo's gps libary ?
Sep 08 13:39:07 <no_mind> library*
Sep 08 13:39:07 <no_mind> pygsmd?
Sep 08 13:39:14 <zwerg> I'm just playing with the qemu version of openmoko and I wondered how to submit a new contact after editing?
Sep 08 13:39:14 <aloril> zwerg: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (and also SH1, SH1_FAQ, Neo1973, Developer_preview and Neo1973_Hardware#GTA01Bv4 pages) (Hopefully these links answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.)
Sep 08 13:40:01 <tuukkah> zwerg, you just change back to the main view
Sep 08 13:40:23 <Elrond> no_mind - GPS != GSM
Sep 08 13:40:46 <no_mind> Elrond: err yes
Sep 08 13:41:02 <no_mind> and whats sphyrna ?
Sep 08 13:41:17 <Elrond> no_mind - Reverse Engeneering project fot the GPS chip.
Sep 08 13:41:23 <tuukkah> zwerg, i can see a bug there: the contact list area only updates when you click on it
Sep 08 13:41:32 <mwester> Wasn't that what Henry the 8th died from?
Sep 08 13:41:33 <no_mind> Elrond: cool
Sep 08 13:42:00 <no_mind> mwester: eeekkks! openmoko will suffer from the same
Sep 08 13:42:12 <zwerg> tuukkah: Hmm, I see.  Most of the time it just brings me back to the overview panel.
Sep 08 13:42:35 <zwerg> When klicking on the contact list button.
Sep 08 13:42:50 <Elrond> mwester - Huh, what?
Sep 08 13:43:05 <tuukkah> zwerg, yeah. then you click the list and it updates to show the new contact too :-)
Sep 08 13:44:01 <zwerg> With "overview" I meant "0 missed calls" and so on...
Sep 08 13:44:53 <tuukkah> zwerg, oh, Today. that might mean the contact app dies
Sep 08 13:45:11 <tuukkah> esp if you can't see it in the list of running apps anymore
Sep 08 13:45:51 <Elrond> pH5 - BTW: Who is mmontour?
Sep 08 13:46:39 <tuukkah> zwerg, now i had it die too, simply by clicking "add new contact" icon :-(
Sep 08 13:46:54 <tuukkah> and Today went with it
Sep 08 13:46:55 <zwerg> Alright then :-)
Sep 08 13:47:17 <tuukkah> zwerg, wanna file a bug?
Sep 08 13:47:27 <zwerg> I could do, yes.
Sep 08 13:47:59 <tuukkah> cool
Sep 08 13:49:41 <pH5> hi Elrond, see http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/User:Mmontour and HHNotes. iirc he also wrote a mail to the list.
Sep 08 13:50:33 <zwerg> I'm using a rootfs snapshot from august 20070819.
Sep 08 13:50:57 <zwerg> Would that be 2007.2?
Sep 08 13:51:02 <tuukkah> why not a newer one?
Sep 08 13:51:26 <tuukkah> 2007.2 says it's 2007.2 when it boots
Sep 08 13:51:31 <zwerg> It's what the download.sh script pulled for me.
Sep 08 13:52:19 <Elrond> pH5 - Is he on irc?
Sep 08 13:53:24 <tuukkah> (at the bottom of the boot progress meter and X splash screen)
Sep 08 13:53:54 <zwerg> Well I know that it is 2007.2 and not the older one.
Sep 08 13:54:17 <tuukkah> right
Sep 08 13:55:36 <zwerg> But I don't think it's svn head because the snapshot is from august.
Sep 08 13:56:15 <tuukkah> yeah there are newer snapshots for example here: http://buildhost.openmoko.org/OM2007.2/tmp/deploy/glibc/images/fic-gta01/
Sep 08 13:56:31 <pH5> Elrond: I can't remember having seen him here.
Sep 08 13:56:52 <Elrond> pH5 - Ahh. We should invite him. :-)
Sep 08 13:56:58 <aloril> (script) openmoko-devel: "Michael 'Mickey' Lauer" <mickey at openmoko.org> Re: themes and skins
Sep 08 13:57:08 <pH5> yes :)
Sep 08 13:57:24 <tuukkah> (which just went down?)
Sep 08 13:58:26 <hhf423> moin
Sep 08 13:59:27 <DukeOfURL> good morning
Sep 08 13:59:51 <hhf423> hi DukeOfURL
Sep 08 14:00:00 <hhf423> anything new?
Sep 08 14:00:37 <DukeOfURL> I'll be in Fremont, CA Monday.  Wondering if I should stop by the FIC office...
Sep 08 14:01:22 <hhf423> why not? ask for a fixed gsmd and gps support, please
Sep 08 14:01:55 <DukeOfURL> question...
Sep 08 14:02:00 <mickeyl> i have new EABI binaries for gps. If all goes well, I can release something next week
Sep 08 14:02:16 <DukeOfURL> when I make openmoko-devel-image, is everything included?
Sep 08 14:02:33 <hhf423> mickeyl: cool
Sep 08 14:02:47 <mickeyl> DukeOfURL: "everything"? 
Sep 08 14:02:49 <DukeOfURL> what is available at buildhost.openmoko.org for ipkg that I don't already have?
Sep 08 14:03:08 <mickeyl> no. everything doesn't fit in 60M
Sep 08 14:03:15 <CM> mickeyl: Great news indeed :)
Sep 08 14:03:22 <mickeyl> bitbake task-openmoko-feed should give you a lot more packages
Sep 08 14:04:19 <Ghiottone> mickeyl, great news! and hi all
Sep 08 14:04:57 <hhf423> hi Ghiottone
Sep 08 14:05:02 <fgau> mickeyl, very cool
Sep 08 14:05:09 <ixs> yay.
Sep 08 14:05:23 <ixs> now I have the nice gsmd stop -> device dead bug as well...
Sep 08 14:05:25 <ixs> *sigh*
Sep 08 14:05:47 <hhf423> ixs: welcome to the club 
Sep 08 14:06:11 <tuukkah> have you all changed the kernel command line already ?-)
Sep 08 14:06:22 <ixs> hhf423: thanks. I'm feeling so very special.
Sep 08 14:06:28 <Ghiottone> lol
Sep 08 14:06:32 * hhf423 still has to wait to sunday for reflashing
Sep 08 14:06:58 <ixs> hhf423: now I'm a member of the serial problem club as well and also of the gsm does not work at all club. Fitting of course that I'd join the gsmd kills the device club...
Sep 08 14:07:05 <tuukkah> no need to reflash, just change bootloader settings
Sep 08 14:07:20 <hhf423> ixs: maybe we should design a badge for the club?
Sep 08 14:07:43 <hhf423> tuukkah: bootloader settings? how?
Sep 08 14:08:26 <hhf423> ixs: and invent a special greeting and handshake !
Sep 08 14:08:34 <tuukkah> hhf423, hold the aux button when you boot the phone connected via usb to your computer. then on the computer run cu -l /dev/ttyACM0 to access the boot loader prompt
Sep 08 14:09:17 <hhf423> tuukkah: there is the problem ; i see my computer on sunday...
Sep 08 14:09:53 <tuukkah> damn ;-)
Sep 08 14:10:36 <hhf423> tuukkah: exactly what i said ;-)
Sep 08 14:14:46 * hhf423 hums a beatles song
Sep 08 14:18:33 <tuukkah> hhf423, what about booting from the sd card with a fresh image ?-)
Sep 08 14:24:33 <Ghiottone> is buildhost down?
Sep 08 14:25:12 <tuukkah> answers to ping but not to http for a while now
Sep 08 14:25:19 <aloril> (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Community_nominees_for_GTA02_P0]] [[Wish_List_-_Hardware]] [[Hardware:NearlyTouchScreen]] [[Phase_1_Software_Testing]] [[Main_Page/it]] [[Talk:IPhone]]
Sep 08 14:27:02 <hhf423> tuukkah: i would need a way to write the image to the card
Sep 08 14:27:22 <Ghiottone> hhf423, some voodoo?
Sep 08 14:27:47 <tuukkah> hhf423, well i assume even if you don't have your computer you have some access to the net etc =)
Sep 08 14:28:02 <hhf423> i have a n770 and a se k610i
Sep 08 14:28:32 <tuukkah> see, can't the 770 write to the sd?
Sep 08 14:28:46 <hhf423> hmm
Sep 08 14:28:57 <hhf423> brb
Sep 08 14:28:59 <tuukkah> at least n800 can
Sep 08 14:32:44 <hhf423> tuukkah: maybe with an adapter that i do not have ;-/
Sep 08 14:33:10 <tuukkah> oh right
Sep 08 14:34:19 <hhf423> how would i put an image on the sd?
Sep 08 14:34:36 <hhf423> just put the files there?
Sep 08 14:35:36 <tuukkah> i haven't tested yet but it would seem you extract rootfs.tar to the card and add boot/uImage
Sep 08 14:35:52 <tuukkah> actually that's one of the things i want to do right now :-)
Sep 08 14:36:09 <hhf423> ;-)
Sep 08 14:36:22 <tuukkah> there's so much :-)
Sep 08 14:37:37 <Ghiottone> libmokogsmd: Unable to connect to gsmd, trying to start it  --> hang. damn!
Sep 08 14:38:06 <tuukkah> Ghiottone, you also haven't changed kernel boot params?
Sep 08 14:38:39 <Ghiottone> mmm no. what parameter? and does it fix the gsm restart bug?
Sep 08 14:39:27 <tuukkah> you remove "console=ttySAC0,115200" from where it is
Sep 08 14:39:41 <tuukkah> and no crashes anymore
Sep 08 14:39:49 <Ghiottone> nice!
Sep 08 14:39:54 <Ghiottone> how do I do that?
Sep 08 14:39:59 * technil is trying the setenv bootargs fix
Sep 08 14:40:10 <tuukkah> do you know how to get to the bootloader prompt?
Sep 08 14:40:19 <Ghiottone> aux and power on?
Sep 08 14:40:35 <tuukkah> yeah, then on the computer cu -l /dev/ttyACM0
Sep 08 14:41:23 <Ghiottone> trying
Sep 08 14:45:11 <hhf423> tuukkah: and then what?
Sep 08 14:45:18 <tuukkah> printenv
Sep 08 14:45:23 <tuukkah> that shows you the current settings
Sep 08 14:46:24 <tuukkah> the name of the variable is something like bootargs_base
Sep 08 14:46:25 <Ghiottone> ok
Sep 08 14:46:31 <Ghiottone> yes
Sep 08 14:46:38 <Ghiottone> how do I change it?
Sep 08 14:46:48 <tuukkah> setenv bootargs_base ...
Sep 08 14:47:17 <tuukkah> ... being what was there already but without the "console=ttySAC0,115200" part
Sep 08 14:47:47 <Ghiottone> with = or space?
Sep 08 14:48:03 <tuukkah> space
Sep 08 14:49:31 <Ghiottone> then ?
Sep 08 14:49:35 <tuukkah> boot
Sep 08 14:50:01 <Ghiottone> ok gone
Sep 08 14:50:03 <Ghiottone> thanks
Sep 08 14:50:07 <Ghiottone> but is this fix permanent?
Sep 08 14:50:07 <tuukkah> the change isn't permanent though
Sep 08 14:50:11 <Ghiottone> ah ok
Sep 08 14:50:11 <tuukkah> =)
Sep 08 14:50:25 <Ghiottone> but if I save this settings am I able to revert it?
Sep 08 14:50:28 <tuukkah> you need to run saveenv to make it last between reboots
Sep 08 14:51:15 <tuukkah> i don't see why you couldn't revert as it affects the kernel and you can make the change in the boot loader before the setting is used for anything
Sep 08 14:51:23 <Ghiottone> ok great!
Sep 08 14:51:29 <Ghiottone> thanks a lot!
Sep 08 14:51:54 <tuukkah> thanks for testing, we have yet to see whether it works for you too :-)
Sep 08 14:52:08 <hhf423> and that fixes what exacrly?
Sep 08 14:52:23 <tuukkah> http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=788
Sep 08 14:52:27 <technil> http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=788
Sep 08 14:52:32 <technil> oops
Sep 08 14:52:50 <tuukkah> "this looks to me as if for whatever reason the kernel still wants to use ttySAC0
Sep 08 14:52:50 <tuukkah> as serial console, rather than as non-console port for the GSM modem."
Sep 08 14:52:54 <Ghiottone> the gui showed up without problem
Sep 08 14:53:11 <Ghiottone> before the fix I had tried to boot it a few times without success
Sep 08 14:53:20 <Elrond> mickeyl - *ping*
Sep 08 14:55:03 <mickeyl> Elrond: p�ng
Sep 08 14:55:45 <Elrond> mickeyl - Ahh. :)  Has laforge found someone for gsmd?
Sep 08 14:56:38 <mickeyl> Elrond: there's someone in .tw who may come up with more patches. why do you ask?
Sep 08 14:57:37 <Elrond> mickeyl - I might have some patches to talloc.[ch] and just wonder, if they'll take as long as my one-line u-boot patch to get applied. ;o)
Sep 08 14:58:17 <mickeyl> hard to forecast, but gsmd patches have made it relatively fast in the past
Sep 08 14:58:56 <Elrond> Ahh. :)  Is "by mail" or "by bugzilla" preferrable?
Sep 08 15:00:56 <mickeyl> bugzilla please
Sep 08 15:01:10 <Elrond> Ahh, I like bugzilla for this sort of things. :)
Sep 08 15:04:53 <Elrond> mickeyl - Thanks. :)
Sep 08 15:05:02 <mickeyl> :)
Sep 08 15:11:42 <Ghiottone> why does my postrm method don't work?
Sep 08 15:12:06 <Ghiottone> isn't the right name do_postrm() ?
Sep 08 15:12:27 <Ghiottone> is the ${D} variable set?
Sep 08 15:14:10 <mickeyl> ${D} is only set in offline mode, i.e. at build time
Sep 08 15:14:26 <mickeyl> (that is, unless someone defines D in his profile ;))
Sep 08 15:15:13 <Ghiottone> uh? I thought that D is used when you install to some location other than / (i.e. ipkg install -d card package)
Sep 08 15:16:24 <mickeyl> no
Sep 08 15:17:02 <mickeyl> this is handled internally by ipkg
Sep 08 15:17:44 <Ghiottone> I read the role of D here http://www.openembedded.info/user-manual/recipes_directories.html#id341093
Sep 08 15:18:31 <mickeyl> yes. this is the destination directory of the build process
Sep 08 15:18:37 <mickeyl> ipkg knows nothing about D
Sep 08 15:19:00 <Ghiottone> if D is only used at build time, how do I remove garbage files from the postrm function?
Sep 08 15:19:16 <mickeyl> garbage files?
Sep 08 15:19:21 <mickeyl> what do you want to actually do?
Sep 08 15:19:23 <Ghiottone> yeah
Sep 08 15:19:25 <mickeyl> show me an example
Sep 08 15:19:29 <Ghiottone> I'm packaging SettingsGUI
Sep 08 15:19:37 <Ghiottone> which is a python app
Sep 08 15:19:42 <mickeyl> right
Sep 08 15:21:40 <Ghiottone> back
Sep 08 15:21:56 <Ghiottone> been kicked out someway
Sep 08 15:22:26 <Ghiottone> mickeyl, what were you saying?
Sep 08 15:23:24 <El_Salvador[Away> [08/09/2007][17:19:31] <mickeyl> right
Sep 08 15:23:24 <El_Salvador[Away> [08/09/2007][17:20:58] * ale__ (n=ale@151.72.70.44) has joined #openmoko
Sep 08 15:23:24 <El_Salvador[Away> [08/09/2007][17:21:10] * Ghiottone (n=ale@151.72.79.180) Quit (Nick collision from services.)
Sep 08 15:23:51 <mickeyl> still waiting for what you want to remove
Sep 08 15:24:02 <Ghiottone> ok thanks
Sep 08 15:24:11 <Ghiottone> after I remove the package it leaves .pyo files
Sep 08 15:24:26 <Ghiottone> and that causes some problems
Sep 08 15:24:37 <mickeyl> hmm. you should ship the pyo's with the package
Sep 08 15:24:43 <mickeyl> it's what i do with all other python packages
Sep 08 15:24:53 <mickeyl> that way it also starts faster
Sep 08 15:24:59 <Ghiottone> only the pyo? 
Sep 08 15:25:09 <Ghiottone> and not any .py file?
Sep 08 15:25:15 <mickeyl> no, both
Sep 08 15:25:21 <mickeyl> eventually we may just ship .pyo
Sep 08 15:25:23 <mickeyl> to save space
Sep 08 15:25:28 <cb22> AFAIK pyo files are obsolete though?
Sep 08 15:25:36 <mickeyl> erm?
Sep 08 15:25:39 <cb22> they've been replaced by the pycs?
Sep 08 15:25:47 <zecke> ~lart intltool
Sep 08 15:25:47 * apt raises middle finger to intltool
Sep 08 15:25:51 <mickeyl> uhm, no. pyc is bytecode, pyo is optimized bytecode
Sep 08 15:25:57 <Ghiottone> El_Salvador[Away, by the way, thanks :)
Sep 08 15:26:19 <cb22> guess not
Sep 08 15:26:38 <Ghiottone> how do I ship them into the package? are they generated at compile time?
Sep 08 15:27:02 <mickeyl> Ghiottone: right. every package that uses distutils or setuptools runs a bytecode compile step
Sep 08 15:27:19 <cb22> mickeyl, my bad
Sep 08 15:27:32 <cb22> i couldv'e sworn i read they were obsolete somewhere :)
Sep 08 15:27:41 <cb22> s/v'e/'ve/
Sep 08 15:27:41 <apt> cb22 meant: i could've sworn i read they were obsolete somewhere :)
Sep 08 15:27:48 <Ghiottone> mickeyl, how do I do it from the recipe? should I inherit some .class?
Sep 08 15:28:08 <mickeyl> Ghiottone: step 1) make the package use distutils. step2) inherit distutils
Sep 08 15:29:11 <Ghiottone> mickeyl, any source on where to learn enough to do step 1?
Sep 08 15:29:24 <mickeyl> Ghiottone: yes, the distutils documentation on the python homepage
Sep 08 15:29:24 <El_Salvador[Away> <Ghiottone> El_Salvador[Away, by the way, thanks :)
Sep 08 15:29:26 <El_Salvador[Away> :)
Sep 08 15:29:58 <mickeyl> Ghiottone: it's straightforward. add a setup.py file and some extra information. but involves more than i'd like to write here :)
Sep 08 15:30:49 <mickeyl> and for the records (you might want to use the remove task for something other eventually), the respective task is called pkg_postrm, not do_postrm
Sep 08 15:30:59 <mickeyl> bb tomorrow, having guests tonite
Sep 08 15:31:00 <mickeyl> cu
Sep 08 15:31:16 <Ghiottone> mickeyl, ok thanks
Sep 08 15:31:56 <cb22> hmm
Sep 08 15:32:03 <cb22> looks like pyo files are old
Sep 08 15:32:06 <cb22> and pyc == pyo
Sep 08 15:32:20 <cb22> MD5 (test2.pyc) = 5e69525b60353611b4c35e4931dfd1af
Sep 08 15:32:23 <cb22> MD5 (test2.pyo) = 5e69525b60353611b4c35e4931dfd1af
Sep 08 15:33:18 <daxxar> pyo is optimized pyc, isn't it?
Sep 08 15:33:32 <daxxar> But python doesn't have many optimizations ;-)
Sep 08 15:33:52 <borg_> there are no optimizations for arm, probably
Sep 08 15:34:20 <daxxar> I read somewhere that -O removed assert statements, and that -OO also removed __doc__strings ;P
Sep 08 15:34:23 <cb22> daxxar, it looks as if pyc's are already optimized
Sep 08 15:34:27 <borg_> :P
Sep 08 15:34:32 <cb22> daxxar, that somewhere would be the man page :)
Sep 08 15:34:38 <daxxar> cb22: Aha. :-P
Sep 08 15:35:23 <cworth> Hmm... gettext-native linking is failing with undefined symbols, (program_name, set_program_name, xasprintf, etc.). Any ideas?
Sep 08 15:35:29 * cworth is using MokoMakefile
Sep 08 15:37:18 <bedboi> hi there.
Sep 08 15:38:07 <dcordes> is it normal that there is no iwconfig in openmoko-devel-image?
Sep 08 15:38:43 <mwester> dcordes:  no wireless yet
Sep 08 15:38:47 <daxxar> Assuming it's not for gta02, yes
Sep 08 15:39:01 <dcordes> it was built for machine type akita
Sep 08 15:39:12 <dcordes> it's loading prism2 modules but there's no iwconfig
Sep 08 15:42:50 <technil> has anyone been dropping into a shell during boot on 2.6.22.5-moko11-r2...
Sep 08 15:43:10 <technil> can't access tty; job control turned off
Sep 08 15:52:39 <cesarb> technil: if you were having build trouble before, you probably got an image without init
Sep 08 15:52:51 <cesarb> technil: nuke the whole build and start from scratch
Sep 08 16:08:13 <tuukkah> dcordes, perhaps you can add iwconfig to the build then
Sep 08 16:16:45 <joao> Anyone managed to make a build last night?
Sep 08 16:16:55 <mwester> yep
Sep 08 16:17:37 <joao> mwester: Standard wiki instructions or some special local flavor of yours?
Sep 08 16:18:49 <mwester> Mastermakefile.  I don't build the rssreader, since I'm of the opinion that we should be able to dial calls, and send SMS msgs, before we need to struggle with building web browsers.
Sep 08 16:20:08 <joao> mwester: Mastermakefile? (Sorry quite new)
Sep 08 16:20:45 <mwester> Check the wiki for instructions on building with the makefile
Sep 08 16:22:13 <mwester> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/MokoMakefile
Sep 08 16:23:29 <CIA-23> openmoko: 03zecke * r2944 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-feedreader2/ (ChangeLog po/LINGUAS po/de.po): 
Sep 08 16:23:29 <CIA-23> openmoko: 2007-09-08 Holger Hans Peter Freyther <zecke@selfish.org>
Sep 08 16:23:30 <CIA-23> openmoko:  Check if translation works by setting up a dummy language
Sep 08 16:23:34 <CIA-23> openmoko:  * po/LINGUAS:
Sep 08 16:23:36 <CIA-23> openmoko:  * po/de.po: Added.
Sep 08 16:23:58 <joao> mwester: Ok. That's what I'm doing. But I'm probably not building the right image. I "always" buil openmoko-devel-image and that's been crashing on me lately
Sep 08 16:24:16 <mwester> It does that.
Sep 08 16:24:22 <aloril> (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Talk:Neo1973]] [[Community_nominees_for_GTA02_P0]] [[User_talk:Hhf423]] [[Getting_Started_with_your_Neo1973]] [[Wish_List_-_Hardware]]
Sep 08 16:24:52 <mwester> It builds the tip of the development branch(s) -- so instability is part of its nature.
Sep 08 16:25:54 <joao> mwester: Ok and if I wanted something where I can eventually get to play with gsmd... What should I build? (Actually I thought that only "woring" things were checked in)
Sep 08 16:26:07 <readon> any one using glade3 & libglade in embedded device?
Sep 08 16:26:07 <aloril> readon: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (and also SH1, SH1_FAQ, Neo1973, Developer_preview and Neo1973_Hardware#GTA01Bv4 pages) (Hopefully these links answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.)
Sep 08 16:26:30 <mwester> joao:  openmoko-devel-image
Sep 08 16:26:35 <tuukkah> joao, for a solution to crashes see http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=788
Sep 08 16:28:09 <joao> tuukkah: gosh, and I was so happy thinking that rwhitby's fixes to the startup and state machine had completely fixed gsmd
Sep 08 16:28:41 <tuukkah> joao, #788 is a bug in kernel as far as i can tell
Sep 08 16:33:22 <joao> tuukkah: Yeah, seems to have a workaround though : Indeed, booting without "console=ttySAC0,115200", I can't reproduce the crashes
Sep 08 16:33:25 <joao> anymore. I'm testing on uImage-2.6.22.5-moko11-r2-fic-gta01.bin and
Sep 08 16:33:27 <joao> OpenMoko-openmoko-devel-image-glibc-ipk-P1-September-Snapshot-20070906-fic-gta01.rootfs.jffs2
Sep 08 16:34:03 <tuukkah> right :-) s/solution/workaround/
Sep 08 16:35:21 <joao> tuukkah: Don't be too hard on me just because of a few NLs :-) by the way, task 2668 of 3310 and still no crash... I am starting to hope
Sep 08 16:35:57 <tuukkah> "NLs"?
Sep 08 16:41:02 <joao> New Lines never mind, I think I am a bit off today
Sep 08 16:41:45 <tuukkah> and, "task"?
Sep 08 16:41:52 <readon> anyone is using glade3?
Sep 08 16:41:56 * tuukkah is a bit off too it seems :-)
Sep 08 16:58:59 <Ghiottone> rwhitby, I have created the bug for ipkg-orphan, it's #2954
Sep 08 17:02:32 <Ghiottone> where are the channel logs?
Sep 08 17:04:30 <SpeedEvil> !logs
Sep 08 17:04:32 <cdbot2> Channel logs for #openmoko are archived at:
Sep 08 17:04:33 <cdbot2> http://hentges.net/tmp/logs/irc/%23openmoko
Sep 08 17:04:34 <cdbot2> Live-logs are available at
Sep 08 17:04:35 <cdbot2> http://hentges.net/tmp/logs/irc/livelogs/%23openmoko.livelog
Sep 08 17:04:37 <cdbot2> See ?? help-logs for usage instructions
Sep 08 17:12:45 <Ghiottone> SpeedEvil, thanks!
Sep 08 17:16:12 <Ghiottone> it looks like logs ends to 2 in the morning
Sep 08 17:20:51 <blinx> hi
Sep 08 17:21:11 <blinx> is there a date when the new version of openmoko is available?
Sep 08 17:21:12 <aloril> blinx: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (and also SH1, SH1_FAQ, Neo1973, Developer_preview and Neo1973_Hardware#GTA01Bv4 pages) (Hopefully these links answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.)
Sep 08 17:22:02 <blinx> Fall 2007
Sep 08 17:22:05 <blinx> a bit more specific?
Sep 08 17:24:23 <aloril> (script) planet: Koen Kooi: Angstrom running on an Motorola a780 http://dominion.kabel.utwente.nl/koen/cms/angstrom-running-on-an-motorola-a780
Sep 08 17:25:46 * mypapit out
Sep 08 17:41:39 <Ghiottone> !help-logs
Sep 08 17:50:10 <joao> I am connected via ssh to the phone. My laptop range is in the 10.0.0.x and the neo on the 192.168.0.x. When I do an ipkg update, the phone doesn't find the hosts. I did a resolv with nameserver=laptop ip but it doesn't seem to help
Sep 08 17:51:51 <SpeedEvil> does ping an.external.ip work?
Sep 08 17:52:14 <mjr> does your laptop actually serve dns? :]
Sep 08 17:52:59 <J-23> :(
Sep 08 17:53:28 <joao> Pinging an external address is no good. No, I don't think I serve DNS but that's not the only reason. I somehow need to tell the neo to go to the 10.0.0. network using the mac. I did as indicated in the wiki
Sep 08 17:55:09 <joao> something like add route all via 192.168.0.200 and then pray that the packets find their way back :-)
Sep 08 18:05:20 <SpeedEvil> route add default gw 192.168.0.200 should work
Sep 08 18:05:33 <SpeedEvil> but that relies on the host to forward.
Sep 08 18:09:50 <Ghiottone> that route should already be present on the neo
Sep 08 18:10:09 <Ghiottone> all you need to do is to setup masquerading on the host
Sep 08 18:11:24 <Ghiottone> ping ftp.funet.fi works for me
Sep 08 18:11:30 <joao_> masquerading like changing the ff.ff.ff.0 on the host?
Sep 08 18:12:00 <Ghiottone> no
Sep 08 18:12:06 <joao_> if I do an ifconfig I get: inet 192.168.0.200 netmask 0xffffff00 broadcast 192.168.0.255
Sep 08 18:12:37 <Ghiottone> masquerading with iptables
Sep 08 18:12:45 <Ghiottone> iptables -A POSTROUTING -t nat -j MASQUERADE -s 192.168.0.0/24
Sep 08 18:12:53 <Ghiottone> echo 1 > /proc/sys/net/ipv4/ip_forward
Sep 08 18:13:01 <Ghiottone> iptables -P FORWARD ACCEPT
Sep 08 18:13:14 <Ghiottone> that should do the trick. (Sorry for the 3 lines spam)
Sep 08 18:14:25 <Ghiottone> only you have to put in /etc/resolv.con a valid nameserver address. I use one public on the internet
Sep 08 18:14:28 <Ghiottone> got to go now.
Sep 08 18:14:30 <Ghiottone> bye all
Sep 08 18:24:24 <aloril> (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Translation]] [[User:Javiroman]] [[User:ChrisLord]]
Sep 08 18:29:27 <mwester> cesarb:  With atime: 268 minutes to build --- with noatime: 263 minutes to build...
Sep 08 18:36:12 <possan> how many locales are glibc supposed to generate during build, feels like it has been generating and generating for hours now
Sep 08 18:39:39 <hhf423> re
Sep 08 18:45:42 <bedboi> anyone knows how to serialize/unserialize gobjects?
Sep 08 18:56:49 * hhf423 yawns
Sep 08 19:08:15 <hhf423> cb22: you did not yet vote, only nominate on gta2 p0?
Sep 08 19:49:07 <blinx> does actually a screen lock exist?
Sep 08 20:02:32 <dcordes|bro> hi
Sep 08 20:06:10 <hhf423> hi dcordes
Sep 08 20:11:05 * DukeOfURL wondering why my Neo will boot up on battery but not with USB connection
Sep 08 20:13:43 <mjr> it's not wired to work without a battery, if that's what you're saying
Sep 08 20:14:11 <ixs> DukeOfURL: if you're running the neo without battery, don't. from what I gathered you might fry your hardware that way.
Sep 08 20:16:25 <DukeOfURL> ixs:  I never remove the battery without first removing the USB connection.
Sep 08 20:16:34 <cesarb> Hey, he's probably not running without a battery... He didn't describe scary noises nor funny smells
Sep 08 20:16:50 <ixs> cesarb: hrhrhr
Sep 08 20:17:02 <DukeOfURL> With battery and USB connection, the boot process hangs on "starting GUI" message
Sep 08 20:17:56 <DukeOfURL> Also, with Neo off, plugging into USB will start the boot process
Sep 08 20:18:56 <DukeOfURL> Are there any diagnostics for the PM unit?
Sep 08 20:19:25 <DukeOfURL> And what does the uboot "factory reset" really do?
Sep 08 20:21:30 <hhf423> i think factory reset copies a rootfs from a save place 
Sep 08 20:22:10 <cesarb> hm, cool, I never saw this small keyboard-looking widget on my neo's status bar
Sep 08 20:22:44 <hhf423> cesarb: i also wonder where this comes from
Sep 08 20:22:56 <DukeOfURL> did anyone determine why the Neo won't power down?  
Sep 08 20:23:13 <cesarb> It probably came when I updated yesterday, and this is the first time the status bar _didn't_ crash ;-)
Sep 08 20:23:43 <ixs> cesarb: does gsm work for you?
Sep 08 20:23:58 <cesarb> ixs: only if I kill and restart gsmd
Sep 08 20:24:13 <cesarb> ixs: I'm working on it right now, btw... Se my progress at bug 766</shameless plug>
Sep 08 20:24:23 <ixs> killing gsmd does not kill your device?
Sep 08 20:24:26 <ixs> !ombug 766
Sep 08 20:24:40 <cesarb> ixs: I'm using the trick harald revealed yesterday
Sep 08 20:24:54 <cesarb> ixs: see bug 788
Sep 08 20:25:01 <ixs> cesarb: mhm. I haven't paid attention. thx for the pointer. looking now
Sep 08 20:25:04 <aloril> (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Wish_List]] [[User:Possan]]
Sep 08 20:25:29 <cesarb> ixs: I'm also removing all the modem-powering-off from gsmd, so it won't crash even without command line modifications
Sep 08 20:27:00 <ixs> cesarb: ahhh. the "trick" with removing the serial line from the cmdline.
Sep 08 20:27:09 <ixs> yeah, I noticed that some weeks ago already.
Sep 08 20:27:14 <ixs> but back then, the problem was different
Sep 08 20:29:13 <SpeedEvil> DukeOfURL yes - it can be gotten into a state where it takes almost no power.
Sep 08 20:29:18 <SpeedEvil> (when off)
Sep 08 20:30:45 <hhf423> yes, hehe, after removing battery for minutes, its almost totally off
Sep 08 20:30:45 <ixs> cesarb: hmmm. nice. gonna try that tomorrow
Sep 08 20:30:56 <cesarb> DukeOfURL: SpeedEvil and me found out it was the audio amp
Sep 08 20:31:39 <cesarb> DukeOfURL: just turn it off on alsamixer ("Amp Mode" to "Off"), turn the GSM modem off, turn the main power management chip off, and it's all off.
Sep 08 20:31:58 <DukeOfURL> ok
Sep 08 20:32:23 * cesarb adds a debugging patch to gsmd which shows the modem simply isn't answering to the ATZ
Sep 08 20:32:33 <cb22> hhf423, yes, why?
Sep 08 20:33:10 <SpeedEvil> Off - to within 100uA anyway.
Sep 08 20:33:22 <SpeedEvil> I diddn't have any easy way of measuring lower.
Sep 08 20:33:35 <hhf423> cb22, why no vote yet? just wondered 
Sep 08 20:34:49 <cb22> hhf423, no reason :) i haven't been around here for very long
Sep 08 20:35:02 <cb22> but just by looking at the wiki i see SpeedEvil everywhere
Sep 08 20:35:30 <DukeOfURL> ~praise SpeedEvil 
Sep 08 20:35:31 <apt> All hail SpeedEvil!
Sep 08 20:37:17 <hhf423> I want your clothes, your boots and your motorbike
Sep 08 20:37:59 <DukeOfURL> while playing the splash music, my Neo will ofter hang, abd the "music" turns to a roar.  Is this also an alsa problem?
Sep 08 20:38:10 <DukeOfURL> s'ofter'often'
Sep 08 20:38:21 <SpeedEvil> cb22: some of it is simply vandalism reversal.
Sep 08 20:38:28 <SpeedEvil> There was a _lot_ of that for a while.
Sep 08 20:38:59 <hhf423> vandalism , really? what kind?
Sep 08 20:39:17 <SpeedEvil> DukeOfURL: It crashes, and plays the noise continuously?
Sep 08 20:39:19 <cb22> hhf423, the enlarge your penis by 200 times i'd imagine :p
Sep 08 20:39:22 <SpeedEvil> hhf423: porn spam
Sep 08 20:39:34 <DukeOfURL> SpeedEvil: yes, until I pull the battery
Sep 08 20:39:39 <SpeedEvil> pages of 100 links inserted after the first 0-1K of a real page
Sep 08 20:40:53 <cb22> SpeedEvil, so _you're_ the idiot that removed them. i could've enlarged my penis by 350 inches with all those offers.
Sep 08 20:41:05 <cb22> not to mention married 375 russian brides
Sep 08 20:41:09 <cb22> damn you.
Sep 08 20:50:16 <DukeOfURL> what's the procedure to build uboot with the mokomakefile?
Sep 08 20:55:30 <roh> cb22/SpeedEvil: when you see some reocurring spammer, tell me.
Sep 08 20:56:12 <ixs> DukeOfURL: make build-package-uboot-openmoko
Sep 08 20:56:34 <DukeOfURL> thanks
Sep 08 21:06:04 <cesarb> WOAH
Sep 08 21:06:13 <cesarb> a HUGE clock appeared on my neo's status bar this time
Sep 08 21:06:42 <cb22> cesarb, i was O-o, but then i re-read the sentance, this time a bit slower
Sep 08 21:10:30 <aloril> (script) planet: Holger "zecke" Freyther: WebKit, GSoC 2007 at an end prototyping http://zecke.blogspot.com/2007/09/webkit-gsoc-2007-at-end-prototyping.html
Sep 08 21:11:04 <cesarb> wtf the neo rebooted by itself
Sep 08 21:11:34 <cesarb> while I was staring at the gsmd log and wondering why my patch didn't do what it was supposed to do
Sep 08 21:14:53 <nbd> wildfire: 25
Sep 08 21:14:55 <nbd> oops
Sep 08 21:14:56 <ixs> cesarb: yeah, happened to me as well. Sometimes, but not reproducable the text of the clock is gettign HUGE
Sep 08 21:16:26 <cesarb> This thing still crashes/hangs in way too many weird ways
Sep 08 21:16:46 * cesarb finds out he has to reverse the order of a few code blocks
Sep 08 21:23:41 <SpeedEvil> roh: this was ages ago.
Sep 08 21:24:13 <SpeedEvil> roh: well - months. I haven't seen a spammer more recent than a couple of months.
Sep 08 21:24:42 <roh> ok.
Sep 08 21:27:34 <visor> On what mobile can i find openmoko?
Sep 08 21:27:34 <aloril> visor: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (and also SH1, SH1_FAQ, Neo1973, Developer_preview and Neo1973_Hardware#GTA01Bv4 pages) (Hopefully these links answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.)
Sep 08 21:28:08 <CM> visor: So far, only the Neo1973 and somewhat on some EZX phones
Sep 08 21:29:28 <visor> 300$ it is expensive for me :/
Sep 08 21:30:11 <CM> Wait for the retail version then, but it will be 450$
Sep 08 21:30:29 <SpeedEvil> It's comparable to similar phones - at $300
Sep 08 21:30:43 <SpeedEvil> At $450 - it may be slightly more expensive.
Sep 08 21:31:04 <SpeedEvil> The lack of subsidy is annoying.
Sep 08 21:32:25 <cesarb> Great, it looks like my Palm's rusty old USB cable is starting to act up
Sep 08 21:32:33 <cesarb> And Neo's USB cables are way too short
Sep 08 21:32:45 <cesarb> (the Razr's cable is too short too)
Sep 08 21:33:16 * cesarb reboots again... This Time For Sure!
Sep 08 21:33:53 <El_Salvador> but razr's cable works?
Sep 08 21:34:14 <cesarb> El_Salvador: should work... never tested it (I've been using the Palm cable for years, even for the Razr)
Sep 08 21:34:19 <El_Salvador> (i have a motorola razr v3xx)
Sep 08 21:34:29 * mwester looks up "This Time For Sure!" in the Encylopedia of Famous Last Words
Sep 08 21:35:23 <mwester> El_Salvador:  The V3 cables are just stock mini-b USB cables -- they'll work fine.
Sep 08 21:35:47 <El_Salvador> good :)
Sep 08 21:35:48 <cesarb> YES
Sep 08 21:36:09 <cesarb> Patch 4 seems to work as intended!
Sep 08 21:36:17 * moko-bunny cheers for cesarb
Sep 08 21:37:28 <DukeOfURL> SpeedEvil: New uboot, uImage, and rootfs from one hour ago.  It still hangs on bootup during the splash "music"
Sep 08 21:37:30 <hhf423> cesarb: doing what?
Sep 08 21:37:50 <DukeOfURL> SpeedEvil: beginning to wonder if there's a hardware problem...
Sep 08 21:38:13 <ixs> unlikely
Sep 08 21:38:52 <DukeOfURL> does anyone else have bootup problems?
Sep 08 21:38:55 <Obri> DukeOfURL: disable the serial console in uboot
Sep 08 21:39:28 <Obri> DukeOfURL: there is a problem with the serial console and gsmd
Sep 08 21:41:37 <hhf423> gsmd is a problem, period
Sep 08 21:41:57 <Obri> hehe
Sep 08 21:42:03 <DukeOfURL> ok, it's booting up to the "today" screen, but there is no panel
Sep 08 21:42:05 <tuukkah> well gsmd alone doesn't crash the kernel =)
Sep 08 21:42:43 <tuukkah> DukeOfURL, restart gsmd and you get a panel when you restart xserver
Sep 08 21:42:55 <mwester> The problem is less gsmd as it is the lack of focus on gsmd -- I wonder why the core team have forgotten that this is a PHONE(!), after all....
Sep 08 21:43:04 <hhf423> i would put nothing past gsmd
Sep 08 21:43:42 <hhf423> not even killing the kernel, when he is not looking
Sep 08 21:43:45 <cesarb> hhf423: fixing bug 766, and potentially at least parts of bug 574 it depends on
Sep 08 21:43:48 <tuukkah> gsmd used to work fairly well but then we need some power management features too
Sep 08 21:43:58 <cesarb> Just attached it to bug 766
Sep 08 21:44:08 <ixs> mwester: truer words were never spoken. :D
Sep 08 21:46:16 <cesarb> OK, now let's try with a SIM...
Sep 08 21:46:50 <hhf423> yeah, i agree with mwester
Sep 08 21:47:27 <cesarb> With my new patch on bug 766, I seem to have working GSM when turning on the phone (just have to test with a SIM now)... I think it's significant progress ;-)
Sep 08 21:47:38 <tuukkah> what if #openmoko focused on gsmd?
Sep 08 21:48:41 <cesarb> tuukkah: too narrow focus
Sep 08 21:48:56 <cesarb> tuukkah: things like PM (looks sideways at SpeedEvil) are very important too
Sep 08 21:48:56 <mwester> tuukkah: are you serious?  Maybe the phone wouldn't crash with the power-management turned on; maybe gsmd would work on boot with needing to be restarted manually, maybe SMS would work, etc. etc. etc.
Sep 08 21:49:02 <tuukkah> well, too narrow for the core team too
Sep 08 21:49:08 <hhf423> i can include gsmd in my prayers
Sep 08 21:49:37 <cesarb> mwester: with my patch for bug 766, it works on boot without having to be restarted manually ;-)
Sep 08 21:49:40 <cb22> maybe if we all pray for gsmd it will sort itself out
Sep 08 21:50:18 <borg_> cesarb: sounds nice :)
Sep 08 21:50:27 <mwester> I was hoping that you would attach it to the bug report
Sep 08 21:50:30 <borg_> cesarb: does gsmd work with the newest kernel with your patch?
Sep 08 21:50:37 * cesarb has the small caveat that I'm just now booting with the SIM
Sep 08 21:50:59 <cesarb> borg_: you have to comment out the powering off of the modem on /etc/init.d/gsmd or boot without serial console
Sep 08 21:51:22 <cesarb> borg_: that to avoid the crash... if it doesn't crash (because you got lucky), it should work
Sep 08 21:51:23 <borg_> i thougt the dead-after-gsmd-restart-problem is with the kernel and not with gsmd 
Sep 08 21:51:55 <cesarb> borg_: the dead-device one is a kernel bug; the stuck-gsmd one is a gsmd bug
Sep 08 21:52:04 <borg_> ah ok
Sep 08 21:52:09 <borg_> i mixed them up then
Sep 08 21:52:11 <borg_> nice :)
Sep 08 21:53:14 <cesarb> hm, didn't work with the SIM :(
Sep 08 21:53:26 * cesarb suspects there is at least yet another part to this problem...
Sep 08 21:53:44 * cesarb suspects the "voodoo debugging" restart of gsmd by the dialer this time
Sep 08 21:54:07 <CM> cesarb: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Community_nominees_for_GTA02_P0    :D
Sep 08 21:54:10 <tuukkah> cesarb, doesn't it only restart if it wasn't running already?
Sep 08 21:54:48 <cesarb> tuukkah: I think it's unconditional stop/start... will check as soon as I find where's that code
Sep 08 21:55:46 <tuukkah> cesarb, if you stop gsmd and restart xserver-noxdm you can see the debug print it does
Sep 08 21:56:10 <cesarb> hm, it's commented out
Sep 08 21:57:49 <CM> ScaredyCat: http://www.scratchprojects.com/2007/08/introduction_to_lua_programming_p01.php
Sep 08 21:57:51 <cesarb> And the one in libmokogsmd is conditional
Sep 08 21:59:27 <cesarb> Rebooting, it worked... Now it seems to work only half of the time, instead of reliably NOT working 100% of the time as before
Sep 08 21:59:46 <mwester> That's sometimes even harder to track down... :(
Sep 08 21:59:59 <cesarb> mwester: I think I only got part of the problem
Sep 08 22:00:38 <cesarb> mwester: I'm guessing there's still a timing window where I don't get the "AT-Interpreter ready" message but it will not answer to ATZ
Sep 08 22:01:02 * mwester is wondering what sort of interactions might exist due to the kernel switching the UART from console to GSM modem...
Sep 08 22:01:11 <cesarb> mwester: if I get the "interpreter ready" thing just after the ATZ, it now (with my patch) correctly reissues the ATZ
Sep 08 22:01:24 <cw666> cesarb: after ATZ you should see OK
Sep 08 22:01:25 <roh> mwester see bug 788
Sep 08 22:01:27 <cesarb> mwester: still, it's progress
Sep 08 22:01:39 <cesarb> cw666: yeah, but I'm not seeing the OK
Sep 08 22:01:46 <cw666> cesarb: are you saying you see "interp ready" sometimes?
Sep 08 22:02:06 <cesarb> cw666: yeah, sometimes I see it just after the ATZ (and thus with my patch it reissues the ATZ)
Sep 08 22:02:12 <mwester> roh: yep, that's why I'm wondering -- perhaps there are lost characters, lost interrupts, or other problems beyond what was noted by Harold in that comment on the bug.
Sep 08 22:02:18 <cw666> cesarb: oh, i dont think ive seen that
Sep 08 22:02:22 <cesarb> cw666: but sometimes I don't... it sends ATZ and never gets any response
Sep 08 22:02:41 <cw666> cesarb: i know sometimes i dont get OK, so what i was doing was poking the power down/up the get the 'interpreter ready' message
Sep 08 22:02:49 <cw666> which in current kernels is busticated as you know
Sep 08 22:03:06 <tuukkah> mwester, if you turn off the console then i'd expect there not to be switching anymore
Sep 08 22:03:07 <roh> mwester its propably a bug in the serial driver, as hes written
Sep 08 22:03:24 <cesarb> cw666: that evil "voodoo dance" in the gsmd script? I commented it out, else I would get insane rebooting it tens of times until I got lucky and it didn't crash
Sep 08 22:03:35 <cesarb> cw666: or would have to every time turn off the serial console
Sep 08 22:04:09 <tuukkah> cesarb, you should save the setting to turn off serial console
Sep 08 22:04:10 <cw666> cesarb: no, that was something i did
Sep 08 22:04:13 <mwester> tuukkah: that's an interesting assumption -- I think it's worth testing that.  If we can find a way to force the MUX to switch to the GSM modem independent of power, that might uncover some timing issues.
Sep 08 22:04:24 <cw666> gsmd and the script for poking at have been very unreliable for me
Sep 08 22:04:42 <cw666> cesarb: also, you know when you turn the modem 'off' like that it's still on right?
Sep 08 22:04:47 <cw666> you can even call the device
Sep 08 22:05:35 <tuukkah> mwester, hmm, do we have information on where the mux is physically?
Sep 08 22:05:49 <cesarb> cw666: yeah, that "power_on" thing is like the power button
Sep 08 22:05:55 <cesarb> cw666: it will turn the phone on
Sep 08 22:05:57 <mwester> Nope.  I was going to dig into the kernel source, and see if we can just set it at initialization time.
Sep 08 22:05:59 <cesarb> cw666: but not off
Sep 08 22:06:14 <roh> tuukkah its a switch which is coupled with the gsm_on via software.
Sep 08 22:06:19 <cw666> cesarb: poke off/on though seems to cause it to deregister from the network though
Sep 08 22:06:36 <cw666> off leave it registers and on, tuning it back on leaves it on but registration to the network goes away
Sep 08 22:06:44 <roh> its switched together via the same sysctl
Sep 08 22:06:44 <cesarb> cw666: it probably sends a signal to the modem's CPU when toggled when it's on, like the main PMU's power button
Sep 08 22:06:52 <tuukkah> roh, so how does the software see it?
Sep 08 22:06:54 <cw666> so maybe it should be treated more like a soft-reset
Sep 08 22:08:22 <roh> see arch/arm/common/gta01_pm_gsm.c
Sep 08 22:09:11 <roh> in openmoko/trunk/src/target/kernel/patches/gta01-power_control.patch
Sep 08 22:09:34 <tuukkah> thanks!
Sep 08 22:10:58 <cesarb> Well, finally I have a phone instead of an expensive toy
Sep 08 22:11:21 <cesarb> With my patch, I managed to boot, and dial from the landline to the neo, answer, hear myself (both ways), and hangup from the phone
Sep 08 22:11:30 <cesarb> _without_ having to plug USB or use the terminal
Sep 08 22:11:47 <tuukkah> so we have s3c2410_gpio_setpin(gta01_gsm.gpio_ngsm_en, 0); to connect to the gsm chip and to disconnect s3c2410_gpio_setpin(gta01_gsm.gpio_ngsm_en, 1);
Sep 08 22:11:58 * cesarb thinks he now just has to wait to see what Harald will think of my patch
Sep 08 22:12:10 <spikebike> cesarb excellent
Sep 08 22:13:03 <cesarb> This deals with at least part of the first item of [[User:CesarB/Requirements]]...
Sep 08 22:13:07 <cw666> cesarb: im rebuilding with your latest patch now, ill update the bug with a "yeah it works here too" if it does
Sep 08 22:13:31 <cesarb> cw666: are you using the debug patch too?
Sep 08 22:13:56 <cesarb> cw666: it's pretty useful... shows what was actually sent to the modem (differently from the "submitted" stuff, which is just "enqueued")
Sep 08 22:14:25 <cesarb> Urgh, dialing fails
Sep 08 22:14:27 <cw666> cesarb: ok, ill make sure it's there too
Sep 08 22:14:28 <Vegar> cesarb: where is this patch of yours?
Sep 08 22:14:36 <cw666> !ombug 766
Sep 08 22:14:45 <cesarb> "Not connected to network. Current status = Home network registered" <- WTF?
Sep 08 22:15:23 <cesarb> Vegar: bug 766
Sep 08 22:16:07 <tuukkah> gta01_gsm.gpio_ngsm_en is decided by gsm_probe based on system rev
Sep 08 22:16:27 <Vegar> ok
Sep 08 22:16:36 <cesarb> Hm, the gsm log says the dialer didn't even _try_ to dial :(
Sep 08 22:16:39 <tuukkah> on GTA01B it's set to 0 by default
Sep 08 22:16:48 <cw666> cesarb: grrr, something unpatches/rm's the tree on rebuilds
Sep 08 22:16:55 <cw666> cesarb: what's is the 'right' incarnation to prevent that?
Sep 08 22:17:35 <tuukkah> or no, GTA01v3_GPIO_nGSM_EN is different from GTA01Bv2_GPIO_nGSM_EN...
Sep 08 22:17:40 <cesarb> cw666: dunno, I use an overlay tree
Sep 08 22:17:52 <cesarb> cw666: nothing touches the overlay tree ;-)
Sep 08 22:18:33 <roh> tuukkah japp. but that should not concern anybody. all phones where we took money for are gta01bv4
Sep 08 22:19:08 <tuukkah> roh, yeah but the code is doing something weird, setting pin GTA01v3_GPIO_nGSM_EN on GTA01B devices
Sep 08 22:19:28 <roh> there is no GTA01B
Sep 08 22:20:13 <tuukkah> is it wrong to use that as an abbrv for case GTA01Bv2_SYSTEM_REV: case GTA01Bv3_SYSTEM_REV: case GTA01Bv4_SYSTEM_REV:
Sep 08 22:20:50 <roh> i dunno. would have to look at the code then.
Sep 08 22:20:55 <cesarb> roh: GTA01B* is the bluetooth ones
Sep 08 22:21:08 <cesarb> roh: GTA01* (without the B) is the pre-bluetooth ones
Sep 08 22:21:14 <cesarb> roh: (learned that on the wiki)
Sep 08 22:21:39 <roh> japp. there was gta01vX, then with bt is gta01bvX
Sep 08 22:22:23 <cesarb> BTW, my phone didn't ring when I tested, just vibrated. Is that normal?
Sep 08 22:24:28 <tuukkah> ok my point was i don't see where we set the initial value for the gta01b* mux pin, only for the gta01v* pin
Sep 08 22:25:08 <roh> i'll take a look at it as soon as i can think straight again.. catched a flu
Sep 08 22:25:18 <nibbler_de> oh, gute besserung.
Sep 08 22:25:53 <roh> i think laforge will not have time too soon for fixing the kernelbug, so if any of you owns a debugboard and is faster than us.. feel free to debug and send patches.
Sep 08 22:26:08 <aloril> (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Community_nominees_for_GTA02_P0]] [[Wish_List]] [[Talk:Hear_Me_FIC]]
Sep 08 22:27:25 <tuukkah> roh, wish i had one
Sep 08 22:27:30 <roh> i hope you can understand that completing gta02 hardware design and validation is more important right now than fixing sofware bugs on gta01.
Sep 08 22:27:49 <tuukkah> sure
Sep 08 22:28:04 <roh> hey nibbler_de ... thanks
Sep 08 22:28:15 <tuukkah> i'm only talking here to tap on the power of the community :-)
Sep 08 22:28:36 <cw666> roh: once gta02 is out gta01 phones will be depricated?
Sep 08 22:29:26 <mwester> I'll avoid the temptation to discuss the nature of successful startup companies, and just say with my experience, I must respectfully disagree with the core team's opinon on that point.
Sep 08 22:29:43 <roh> cw666 no. we will still fully support the hardware and of course complete any missing components. were not like the rest of the fast-living industry
Sep 08 22:30:05 <cw666> roh: actually, the 'rest of us' generally support things in such a way too
Sep 08 22:30:55 <tuukkah> cw666, so why did you even ask ;-)
Sep 08 22:31:35 <cw666> tuukkah: i see a lot of movement on gta02 and bugs on gta01 so wondered if there was much focus from the core team on gta01 at all
Sep 08 22:31:40 <cw666> and hence the question
Sep 08 22:31:45 <mwester> (to clarify context, my last comment is in response to roh's comment regarding gta02 being more important that the product in customer's hands right now -- not in response to cw666's comment.)
Sep 08 22:32:00 <buz> userland bugs will affect either of them
Sep 08 22:32:02 <mwester> s/that/than/
Sep 08 22:32:02 <apt> mwester meant: (to clarify context, my last comment is in response to roh's comment regarding gta02 being more important than the product in customer's hands right now -- not in response to cw666's comment.)
Sep 08 22:32:10 <buz> only very specific kernel bugs are related to gta02 only
Sep 08 22:32:13 <buz> uhm 01 
Sep 08 22:32:18 <roh> mwester the only other possibility would have been to not open up development so early and complete the hard and software before going to the open. but thats not what we wanted. we do not want to build on the community fixing the bugs for us or develop everything like other companys tried before. that would be abuse of the community in my eyes. we wanted to be honest with you. thats important
Sep 08 22:32:26 <cw666> oh crap, ive been superdeaded again
Sep 08 22:32:42 * cw666 pouts and goes to get some booze
Sep 08 22:33:17 <tuukkah> cw666, i think it's just that hardware is more important than software
Sep 08 22:33:33 <buz> outside of driver bugs, fixes for gta02 should benefit gta01 just as much
Sep 08 22:33:54 <roh> mwester we will continue to work on all whats buggy and missing and fill in the missing bits. if the community wants to help, thats fine. that could eventually speed things up. but we also fully understand if you want to wait and build on 'working things' .. but i'm sorry.. we're not there yet.
Sep 08 22:34:09 <cesarb> buz: and vice versa...
Sep 08 22:34:22 <buz> boy i have some really bad lag
Sep 08 22:34:39 <mwester> roh: Perhaps you misunderstand.  I merely believe that working with your current customers and the product they have in hand is vital -- otherwise it is percieved that you are interested in future customers, and have abandoned the existing product.  That is a reputation that is difficult to shed once established.
Sep 08 22:35:36 * cw666 ^5s mwester 
Sep 08 22:35:48 <roh> but the community made clear that they want to hack on this hard and software at the earlyiest possible moment. so i think we have to live with some of the citicism that were getting, since in my eyes weve been more honest to you than any other company ive seen before. (and i'm not saying that because i work for openmoko, but as a opensource enthusiast.
Sep 08 22:36:27 <tuukkah> as far as i see, this is working well this far
Sep 08 22:36:53 <roh> mwester i think you misunderstand. gta01 is not a product. gta01 does not have users. gta01 is for developers who usually get far less informations and source with a develboard like this.
Sep 08 22:37:17 <tuukkah> of course gta01 customer == developer
Sep 08 22:37:40 <folken> I just wished that the funtionality would be preserved. Currently it just seems like on every  update something else breaks. 
Sep 08 22:37:42 <roh> and we sold them only because many asked us to, and not because we thought 'its done enough, deploy, deploy!'
Sep 08 22:37:42 <SpeedEvil> Indeed - we do. The problem is not the information or software released, it's the lack of announcements of stuff that you have to have known well in advance.
Sep 08 22:38:11 <cesarb> roh: I think the problem is that, while some of us are low-level people who can bash gsmd or even the kernel into shape when needed, others of us are left waiting for it to work enough
Sep 08 22:38:12 <folken> But please don't get me wrong. I love digging around the code.. 
Sep 08 22:38:12 <SpeedEvil> For example, how many GTA01s are in process of production, and at what time might they hit the store, ...
Sep 08 22:38:24 <SpeedEvil> Meh.
Sep 08 22:38:24 <cesarb> roh: these high-level people are stuck on a waiting game
Sep 08 22:38:27 <roh> SpeedEvil were working on than too. there will be much improved information flow from us.
Sep 08 22:39:18 <SpeedEvil> Good. I know personally that the above has stopped me pushing the device to several devs I know that like to hack on hardware they own. Simply as I can't say 'order now, and you get one in a week'.
Sep 08 22:39:28 <folken> If it where at least possible to dial and recieve calls. Everything else can be added easely. 
Sep 08 22:39:31 <mwester> I'm very happy to hack on the kernel to work on the UART/GSM poweron/off problem - I even have the debug board.  But I will be very unhappy if I spend a week on that bug, to find that someone in the core team knows exactly what the problem is, and knows how to fix it, and will have a patch submitted about the time I figure it out a week hence.
Sep 08 22:39:51 <tuukkah> folken, power management isn't necessarily easy
Sep 08 22:40:02 * SpeedEvil rolls on floor crying.
Sep 08 22:40:03 <folken> tuukkah: agreed.. 
Sep 08 22:40:07 <roh> cesarb i can understand, and am shure that the publicity in direction of non-developers would be better when we waited. but that would not been openmoko
Sep 08 22:40:11 <SpeedEvil> It's horribly hard.
Sep 08 22:40:42 <tuukkah> SpeedEvil, still i've heard you've made progress :-)
Sep 08 22:40:43 <roh> that would have been yet another linux device thats developed behind closed doors.
Sep 08 22:41:05 <SpeedEvil> tuukkah: rather minimal - but at least it's off. 
Sep 08 22:41:36 <cesarb> urgh, WTF
Sep 08 22:41:47 <tuukkah> SpeedEvil, i've wanted to ask, can i read about the results somewhere?
Sep 08 22:41:49 <roh> mwester jap. i can understand that. but be shure these guys know how to use bugzilla.
Sep 08 22:42:01 <cesarb> if (priv->registered != FOO || priv->registered != BAR) { /* don't let me dial */ }
Sep 08 22:42:15 <cesarb> which means, of course, that it will never let me dial
Sep 08 22:42:36 <roh> -h
Sep 08 22:42:48 <tuukkah> cesarb, heh %-)
Sep 08 22:43:05 <SpeedEvil> tuukkah: in what sense?
Sep 08 22:43:36 <tuukkah> SpeedEvil, what did you do, what did you achieve, how can i reproduce that :-)
Sep 08 22:43:51 <cesarb> svn blame points to thomas as the culprit...
Sep 08 22:44:01 <SpeedEvil> tuukkah: turning all teh power stuff off, so the battery lasts most of a year in 'off'
Sep 08 22:44:28 <SpeedEvil> tuukkah: send at@poff to modem, which makes it go to sleep. Set amp-mode in alsamixer to 'off'
Sep 08 22:44:54 <SpeedEvil> then when you switch off, it uses under 100uA, rather than 30ma+
Sep 08 22:46:04 <tuukkah> that's all? wow
Sep 08 22:46:41 <cw666> SpeedEvil: i never see 'amp-mode' in the mixer...  where should i be looking?
Sep 08 22:46:55 <cw666> SpeedEvil: also, i wonder, why even have the amp on when there is no playback at all?
Sep 08 22:47:00 <tuukkah> at least the amp-mode can be easily added to init scripts
Sep 08 22:47:13 <SpeedEvil> I was most dissapointed to find out that the power supply chip has hideous granularity. It can only alter most rails in increments of 0.3V, which makes undervolting hard.
Sep 08 22:47:35 <SpeedEvil> Especially as it _almost_ seems to work at 1.5V
Sep 08 22:47:44 <SpeedEvil> And I'm sure another 20mv or so would make it go.
Sep 08 22:47:47 <folken> is there something classy such as "wake up on modem ring" ? 
Sep 08 22:47:53 <SpeedEvil> In theory.
Sep 08 22:47:56 * Linux_Galore waves
Sep 08 22:47:58 <SpeedEvil> Not yet implemented
Sep 08 22:48:22 <cw666> SpeedEvil: actually, i wonder why it's not working...  from the wiki the ring should be connected to EXTINT0 iirc
Sep 08 22:48:27 <Linux_Galore> wonder if OM will make a UMPC like phone
Sep 08 22:48:30 <roh> SpeedEvil heh.. were not too happy either. but its what we got and there are no reasonable alternatives i know of.
Sep 08 22:48:32 <cw666> SpeedEvil: that should suffice to wake the CPU just as the buttons do surely?
Sep 08 22:48:55 <roh> Linux_Galore when umpc ever will archive reasonable power consumption.. who knows? ;)
Sep 08 22:49:49 <tuukkah> SpeedEvil, in any vase, this is all we got? http://wiki.openmoko.org/wikiNeo1973_GTA01_Power_Management
Sep 08 22:50:13 <Linux_Galore> roh: intel, samsung few others make low power 32 bit cpu's now
Sep 08 22:50:15 <tuukkah> s/vase/case/
Sep 08 22:50:15 <apt> tuukkah meant: SpeedEvil, in any case, this is all we got? http://wiki.openmoko.org/wikiNeo1973_GTA01_Power_Management
Sep 08 22:50:51 <roh> Linux_Galore currently there is no x86 cpu which comes into the range of whats exaptable... 
Sep 08 22:50:55 <SpeedEvil> tuukkah: pretty much
Sep 08 22:51:19 <roh> Linux_Galore you know the sony umpc have fans and a big venting hole?
Sep 08 22:51:46 <SpeedEvil> cw666: I don't know how you'd configure the modem to do that.
Sep 08 22:52:02 <SpeedEvil> cw666: I should really have tried wake on ring in suspend mode.
Sep 08 22:52:19 <Linux_Galore> roh: Ive seen the new Milo based intel UMPC and the new Touch UMPC phone and they haveno fans and run happily for 5 hours
Sep 08 22:52:38 <Linux_Galore> Milo = distro of Linux
Sep 08 22:52:49 <cw666> SpeedEvil: yeah, im not sure either, no docs and it doesn't seem to work as-is
Sep 08 22:52:54 <SpeedEvil> Is there a simple way to get bugzilla to tell me all bugs I have sumbitted?
Sep 08 22:53:04 <cw666> grrr, superdead battery is taking a LONG time to come up ...
Sep 08 22:53:12 <cesarb> SpeedEvil: yes
Sep 08 22:53:17 <cesarb> SpeedEvil: go to the advanced query page
Sep 08 22:53:21 <Linux_Galore> sorry not touch HTC, wrong name
Sep 08 22:53:37 <cesarb> SpeedEvil: "Any of" "Reporter" "is"
Sep 08 22:53:46 <SpeedEvil> I've selected all the bug states, and reporter is me
Sep 08 22:53:57 <cw666> cesarb: http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/buglist.cgi?short_desc_type=allwordssubstr&short_desc=&long_desc_type=allwordssubstr&long_desc=&bug_file_loc_type=allwordssubstr&bug_file_loc=&bug_status=NEW&bug_status=ASSIGNED&bug_status=REOPENED&emailtype1=substring&email1=&emailreporter2=1&emailtype2=substring&email2=cesarb&bugidtype=include&bug_id=&votes=&changedin=&chfieldfrom=&chfieldto=Now&chfieldvalue=&cmdtype=doit&newquerynam
Sep 08 22:54:03 <cesarb> SpeedEvil: don't select any bug stages, deselect them all
Sep 08 22:54:04 <cw666> oops :) that was longer than i expected
Sep 08 22:54:40 <roh> Linux_Galore hm.. ive not yet seen specs..  have a url?
Sep 08 22:54:44 <bedboi> are there any rumors about the next shipping date???
Sep 08 22:54:47 <SpeedEvil> Hmm. Looks like I diddn't submit the voltage bug
Sep 08 22:54:49 <Linux_Galore> roh: Milo ?
Sep 08 22:54:51 <cesarb> cw666: http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/buglist.cgi?short_desc_type=allwordssubstr&short_desc=&long_desc_type=allwordssubstr&long_desc=&bug_file_loc_type=allwordssubstr&bug_file_loc=&emailtype1=substring&email1=&emailreporter2=1&emailtype2=exact&email2=cesarb%40cesarb.net&bugidtype=include&bug_id=&votes=&changedin=&chfieldfrom=&chfieldto=Now&chfieldvalue=&cmdtype=doit&newqueryname=&order=Bug+Number&field0-0-0=noop&type0-0-0=noop&value0-0-0=
Sep 08 22:55:08 <bedboi> the .com site is still fuzzy-saying "after 10 Sept"
Sep 08 22:55:24 <roh> Linux_Galore a umpc based phone with 5hours battery which has much longer standby
Sep 08 22:55:47 <Linux_Galore> roh: the HTC unit you can already purchase in the USA
Sep 08 22:56:28 <Linux_Galore> the Intel Milo umpc unit is due to be released later this year
Sep 08 22:56:30 <roh> eh.. i know of no x86 htc devices
Sep 08 22:56:46 <cw666> cesarb: btw, did you try that Willie's latest patch to power down the lm4857
Sep 08 22:56:54 <cesarb> cw666: nope
Sep 08 22:57:15 <cesarb> cw666: wouldn't be useful since I don't have a current measurement rig
Sep 08 22:57:18 <Linux_Galore> roh: what is this fixation with x86
Sep 08 22:57:25 <cesarb> cw666: SpeedEvil does
Sep 08 22:57:42 <cw666> cesarb: yeah, i need to find my meter(s) and make one myself
Sep 08 22:57:46 <SpeedEvil> Can anyone with a recent kernel cat /sys/devices/platform/s3c2410-i2c/i2c-0/0-0008/voltage_dcud ?
Sep 08 22:57:51 <Linux_Galore> roh:  you dont need x86 for a UMPC 
Sep 08 22:57:53 <SpeedEvil> Err
Sep 08 22:58:00 <SpeedEvil> Can anyone with a recent kernel cat /sys/devices/platform/s3c2410-i2c/i2c-0/0-0008/voltage_d3reg ?
Sep 08 22:58:02 <SpeedEvil> I mean
Sep 08 22:58:16 <SpeedEvil> Is it 2100?
Sep 08 22:59:25 <mwester> 2100
Sep 08 22:59:44 <SpeedEvil> Thanks.
Sep 08 22:59:56 <folken> SpeedEvil: if it would boot i' could tell you. :)
Sep 08 23:00:01 <mwester> on my kernel the path is actually cat /sys/devices/platform/s3c2410-i2c/i2c-adapter/i2c-0/0-0008/voltage_d3reg
Sep 08 23:01:33 * SpeedEvil adds the bug.
Sep 08 23:01:38 <roh> Linux_Galore UMPC meant embedded x86.. on a unified 'platform/chipset'
Sep 08 23:01:39 <folken> i think i need to reflash. 
Sep 08 23:02:25 <SpeedEvil> Embedded x86 would be nice in a way. If it could be low power and cheap.
Sep 08 23:03:05 <roh> SpeedEvil atm there are not even small enough ones.. so i think we can wait with that
Sep 08 23:03:30 <cw666> SpeedEvil: there are some options, but the power budget just isn't that low compared to arm/mips
Sep 08 23:03:35 <SpeedEvil> Indeed. I want to get 386/20/4M in a SOIC8 or something.
Sep 08 23:03:39 <SpeedEvil> for $1
Sep 08 23:03:45 <SpeedEvil> it'll be a few years though.
Sep 08 23:04:13 <cw666> SpeedEvil: there were SoCs down at that level, but most of the newer stuff is actually a LOT more powerful and and also more power hungry
Sep 08 23:04:16 <mwester> The Linksys NAS200 is an x86-compatible SOC device.
Sep 08 23:04:32 <SpeedEvil> I know. It's annoying.
Sep 08 23:04:58 <tuukkah> SpeedEvil, so why do you want x86?
Sep 08 23:05:02 <SpeedEvil> For many things I would really quite like a 20Mhz SoC, not a 200MHz one.
Sep 08 23:05:08 <mwester> Floating point?
Sep 08 23:05:20 <cw666> mwester: there are arm cores with FP, mips too
Sep 08 23:05:37 <cw666> SpeedEvil: why not just have one with decent PM and a good HALT state?
Sep 08 23:05:39 <SpeedEvil> mwester: just to forget about the embedded programming side, and pretend that everything is a PC. Pretty much.
Sep 08 23:06:02 <SpeedEvil> Because to have PM low enough it practically means reloading the core from RAM each resume.
Sep 08 23:06:13 <cw666> SpeedEvil: btw, i work (as my real job) on embedded mips and x86 ... and the people i deal with do pretends it's a PC --- and that *SUCKS* because they produce much bloaty shit
Sep 08 23:06:13 <roh> cw666 even then you cannot get below 1W for the whole system
Sep 08 23:06:24 <roh> in power-on state
Sep 08 23:06:29 <cw666> SpeedEvil: yes, it's easier but it encourages dumb people to do really bad things
Sep 08 23:06:56 <Linux_Galore> roh: Intels new x86 umpc low powered chipset http://linuxdevices.com/news/NS5285316667.html
Sep 08 23:07:02 <SpeedEvil> cw666: for example - I'm currently sort-of-contemplating a bluetooth thingy. Which would be _so_ easy if I could use the bluez* drivers.
Sep 08 23:07:26 <cw666> that article has some details wrong
Sep 08 23:07:42 * mwester goes to investigate GSM/Console mux kernel code...
Sep 08 23:08:03 <cw666> SpeedEvil: why does bluez require x86?
Sep 08 23:08:05 <folken> SpeedEvil: i operate bluez on arm. 
Sep 08 23:08:09 <roh> between 13 and 25 Watts... heh.. thats 25 times our current power consuption
Sep 08 23:08:12 <cesarb> Yay, this time I managed to DIAL to my landline too
Sep 08 23:08:19 * cesarb must send this one patch to bugzilla
Sep 08 23:08:20 <cw666> roh: it's probably 50x as fast too
Sep 08 23:08:32 <cw666> roh: actually, hard to say how much, but it's decently powerful as a core
Sep 08 23:08:40 <SpeedEvil> folken: It doesn't of course - nor an MMU even strictly. But it does require 32 bit, and a fair chunk of RAM.
Sep 08 23:08:43 <roh> cw666 so what... when i then only can use it half a day that helps me nothing
Sep 08 23:08:47 <Linux_Galore> roh: umpc's are a bigger form factor so a 4000->7000MAH battery is normal
Sep 08 23:09:20 <cw666> roh: it depends what the usage model is, if you have a finite amount of work to do and halt cost near zero then it's not so bad, if you have a lot of little bits of work to do then i agree, it's useless
Sep 08 23:09:23 <roh> Linux_Galore yep. and i accredit their effort. but thats more ubuntu-embedded than openmoko what youre looking at
Sep 08 23:09:30 <cw666> roh: for a phone x86 makes no sense, not yet anyhow
Sep 08 23:09:41 <folken> SpeedEvil: sorry I don't know much about hardware, but I use my bluetooth mini-pcmcia card in my zaurus daily. 
Sep 08 23:09:45 <roh> cw66 ack
Sep 08 23:09:47 <cw666> x86 has much silicon (and therefore power) used to do things you just dont care about in a phone
Sep 08 23:09:57 <folken> SpeedEvil: and it does use a bluez module. 
Sep 08 23:10:07 <Linux_Galore> HTC with dont use x86 with their unit its based on ARM
Sep 08 23:10:15 <Linux_Galore> s/with//
Sep 08 23:10:16 <apt> Linux_Galore meant: HTC  dont use x86 with their unit its based on ARM
Sep 08 23:10:27 <SpeedEvil> folken: I'm meaning embedding bluetooth into stuff - think a really smart pair of earphones, not a PDA.
Sep 08 23:10:56 <folken> SpeedEvil: ah. 
Sep 08 23:11:26 <cw666> SpeedEvil: arm is fine for that, get a gumstix as a proto device even
Sep 08 23:11:57 <SpeedEvil> Yes, arm is fine for that - I was more meaning 'any architecture similar in performance to' rather than strictly 386
Sep 08 23:12:16 <Linux_Galore> At the moment its next to impossible to find a Linux based UMPC with a 5/6" LCD under US$800 that is halfway decent other than the N800, the problem with the N800 is the hardware is gutless
Sep 08 23:12:30 <cw666> SpeedEvil: a 386 (in order shallow core) is pretty slow, for a given amount of power i suspect a decent arm core will spank one
Sep 08 23:13:03 <cb22_> i think the next neo should have a nice quad core xeon built in :)
Sep 08 23:13:06 <SpeedEvil> cw666: I'm not meaning a 386/20, I mean something that can do the same amount of processing, with MMU/... 
Sep 08 23:13:14 <cb22_> that way, we avoide all the speed issues
Sep 08 23:13:21 <spikebike> n800 gutless?
Sep 08 23:13:26 <cw666> SpeedEvil: so when you say 386 you mean a recent x86-like CPU then?
Sep 08 23:13:34 <cw666> SpeedEvil: it's not clear how much processing power you want
Sep 08 23:13:40 <spikebike> I've got a n770
Sep 08 23:13:53 <spikebike> n800's supposed to be pretty good
Sep 08 23:14:20 <SpeedEvil> cw666: no - I mean any 34 bit processor, with similar performance to a 386/20Mhz, with several meg of RAM/ROM in a SOIC8 or so.
Sep 08 23:14:21 <Linux_Galore> spikebike: only 300mhz cpu, I can buy an older generation iPAQ with a 400-520Mhz xscale cpu for next to nothing now
Sep 08 23:14:26 <spikebike> it is after all 180 grams, relatively thin, has an 800x480 lcd, and lasts for hours even while running wifi on a 1000mha battery
Sep 08 23:14:27 <SpeedEvil> s/4/2
Sep 08 23:14:53 <cw666> SpeedEvil: 386/20 is slow though, you can get ARMs core that are way faster, with FP even
Sep 08 23:14:57 <spikebike> galore right, with a worse screen, often no wifi, and often bigger battery
Sep 08 23:15:07 <spikebike> 800 does also have a dsp btw
Sep 08 23:15:16 <SpeedEvil> cw666: I know this. I don't want speed, I want low power and small size.
Sep 08 23:15:51 <SpeedEvil> brick: wander around rswww.com, farnell.com - looking round their knobs section
Sep 08 23:15:57 <SpeedEvil> oops
Sep 08 23:16:01 <cw666> SpeedEvil: so the issue is you want the x86 ISA then?
Sep 08 23:16:04 <Linux_Galore> spikebike: the only thin I like about the N800 is the screen
Sep 08 23:16:06 <spikebike> some enterprising hacker even wrote a module to create /dev/mp3 so you could play mp3's with zero battery load
Sep 08 23:16:08 <Linux_Galore> thing*
Sep 08 23:16:27 <cb22_> /dev/mp3?
Sep 08 23:16:30 <SpeedEvil> cw666: no - I mean any 34 bit processor, with similar performance to a 386/20Mhz, with several meg of RAM/ROM in a SOIC8 or so.
Sep 08 23:16:32 <cw666> cesarb: ok, i tried you patch and see no differences, i wonder if things rebuilt when i thought they should have
Sep 08 23:16:35 <cb22_> do you cat your mp3 into there or something?
Sep 08 23:16:39 <spikebike> yeah
Sep 08 23:16:43 <Linux_Galore> I would love the N800 with the GTA02 hardware specs heh
Sep 08 23:16:46 <spikebike> and use the dsp for decompression
Sep 08 23:17:07 <spikebike> I just want a gsm I can attach via bluetooth (like a gps) that does data AND voice
Sep 08 23:17:15 <cw666> SpeedEvil: ok, but you can get those already, we have boxes of them at work, though i think those are maybe 6W or so
Sep 08 23:17:15 <spikebike> then the n800 would make a reasonable cellphone
Sep 08 23:17:21 <cw666> (400MHz 4kc)
Sep 08 23:17:44 <SpeedEvil> cw666: no, you can't, not in a SOIC8 (8 pin small-outline IC) and not for $1
Sep 08 23:17:46 <cesarb> cw666: sometimes (about 1/3 of the time) my patch also doesn't work for me
Sep 08 23:18:06 <cw666> oh, no, sorry
Sep 08 23:18:15 <cw666> cesarb: well, i wonder if it's even there
Sep 08 23:18:29 <cw666> cesarb: i'm not sure that patching it in place and doing make work ... should it have?
Sep 08 23:18:54 <cesarb> cw666: dunno
Sep 08 23:19:05 <cw666> cesarb: so how do you rebuild then?
Sep 08 23:19:06 <cesarb> cw666: as I said, I use a overlay for everything
Sep 08 23:19:24 <cw666> yeah, you told me... but that's not entirely obvious to me what you mean there
Sep 08 23:19:39 <Linux_Galore> the N800 is getting updated next year to include Wimax for the US market I see
Sep 08 23:20:00 <cw666> SpeedEvil: there are PICs with similar packages that are close to that, but PIC isa is horrible
Sep 08 23:20:00 <cesarb> cw666: I copy the recipe to the overlay, edit it to add the patch and tack a +cesarb1 at the end of the package revision, and run "make build-package-<package> build-package-package-index"
Sep 08 23:20:07 <spikebike> what does wimax mean?
Sep 08 23:20:09 <spikebike> fast wan?
Sep 08 23:20:13 <cw666> SpeedEvil: if you were more relaxed about the package, AVR32 has a lot of nice options
Sep 08 23:20:15 <SpeedEvil> spikebike sort-of.
Sep 08 23:20:17 <cesarb> cw666: then I go to the phone and do a ipkg update and ipkg upgrade
Sep 08 23:20:19 <spikebike> or access to voice as well?
Sep 08 23:20:27 <cesarb> cw666: since I already pointed the phone to my computer
Sep 08 23:20:35 <Elrond> cw666 - What's the current topic?
Sep 08 23:20:48 <Linux_Galore> spikebike: Wimax is the next step up from WiFi, up to 50km range and high speed data transfer
Sep 08 23:20:50 <cw666> Elrond: ?
Sep 08 23:20:53 <SpeedEvil> cw666: none with integrated RAM, and all with sucky power.
Sep 08 23:20:58 <SpeedEvil> Linux_Galore: not quite
Sep 08 23:20:59 <Elrond> cw666 - With speedevil.
Sep 08 23:21:02 <spikebike> ah, I'm hoping to be able to use it as a phone as well
Sep 08 23:21:05 <SpeedEvil> wimax is not peer-peer
Sep 08 23:21:23 <SpeedEvil> See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/wimax
Sep 08 23:21:24 <spikebike> so openmoko, or iphone (if apple catches a clue)
Sep 08 23:21:38 <cw666> SpeedEvil: it has to be SOIC8, or just a 2.54mm spaced DIP so you can use it easily?
Sep 08 23:22:13 <spikebike> frustratingly motorola seems to be adopting linux in a big way and pushing it for developers
Sep 08 23:22:14 <cw666> cesarb: hmm, i have zero experience with OE & bitbake, ill have to figure out how that works
Sep 08 23:22:23 <SpeedEvil> cw666: I mean any generic small package - QFN32 or something would be fine. I have looked, and I know that it basically isn't available from any vendor at teh moment.
Sep 08 23:22:23 <spikebike> all the while requiring windows for developers... very strange.
Sep 08 23:22:25 <cw666> cesarb: i was sorta planning on throwing it all away and just doing makefiles at some point
Sep 08 23:22:33 <cesarb> cw666: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/User:CesarB/Using_a_local_overlay
Sep 08 23:22:49 <Linux_Galore> wonder if anyone is looking at putting Linux on the iPhone
Sep 08 23:23:15 * Linux_Galore googles
Sep 08 23:23:18 <folken> dfu_upload error -84
Sep 08 23:23:20 <folken> hmm
Sep 08 23:23:38 <SpeedEvil> folken: what are you trying to do?
Sep 08 23:23:42 <cw666> Linux_Galore: it's been talked about, i wouldn't mind having a go myself
Sep 08 23:23:48 * SpeedEvil vaguely remembers error -84
Sep 08 23:24:23 <SpeedEvil> folken: you do have the neo plugged directly into a USB port, not through a hub?
Sep 08 23:24:35 <folken> SpeedEvil: I'm trying to upload the http://buildhost.openmoko.org/OM2007.2/tmp/deploy/glibc/images/fic-gta01/OpenMoko-openmoko-devel-image-glibc-ipk-P1-September-Snapshot-20070908-fic-gta01.rootfs.jffs2 rootfs. I do this with -a 5 -R -D <filename> 
Sep 08 23:24:57 <Elrond> SpeedEvil - What are you looking for in QFN32?
Sep 08 23:25:00 <Linux_Galore> cw666: It would be easier to get a Meizu M8 (iPhone look alike) and put Linux on it
Sep 08 23:25:02 <folken> SpeedEvil: I'll try a different port on my laptop. 
Sep 08 23:25:09 <SpeedEvil> folken: and the neo is on the u-boot screen? - after pressing the aux-button?
Sep 08 23:25:22 <cw666> Linux_Galore: does it have a capacitive touch sensor?
Sep 08 23:25:33 <SpeedEvil> Elrond: Basically something equivalent to a 386/20, with 4M RAM and ROM. 
Sep 08 23:25:36 <spikebike> I thought the m8 had linux
Sep 08 23:25:41 <folken> SpeedEvil: yes it is. It flashed the kernel image fine.. 
Sep 08 23:25:46 <SpeedEvil> Elrond: for $1 - which I was saying don't exist, tthen it got involved.
Sep 08 23:25:57 <Linux_Galore> cw666: yes, its also slightly smaller then the iPhone
Sep 08 23:26:10 <spikebike> motorola sells an iphone like widget
Sep 08 23:26:14 <spikebike> e6 maybe?
Sep 08 23:26:29 <cw666> speaking of widgets, anyone here know x11 overly well?
Sep 08 23:26:30 <Elrond> SpeedEvil - Huh, 4M ram and rom is a lot for something that small.
Sep 08 23:26:41 <SpeedEvil> Elrond: I know - several years time.
Sep 08 23:26:57 <Elrond> SpeedEvil - What do you wanna do with it?
Sep 08 23:26:58 <Linux_Galore> I noticed Sharp have mad a new phone that basically looks like the iPhone with a square dpad down the bottom
Sep 08 23:27:03 <Linux_Galore> made*
Sep 08 23:27:06 <spikebike> http://developer.motorola.com/products/handsets/motorokre6/
Sep 08 23:28:02 <Elrond> SpeedEvil - Except "rule the world" of course. ;o)
Sep 08 23:28:13 <SpeedEvil> Elrond: stuff - basically. A generic microcontroller replacement, that lets me run already existing linux ppp/bluetooth/usb/... stacks, with minimal coding. 
Sep 08 23:28:50 <cw666> SpeedEvil: except for your *desire* to use USB and BT i can understand that though
Sep 08 23:28:55 <SpeedEvil> Rather than hand-coding or using libraries of dubious quality with missing features.
Sep 08 23:28:59 <folken> SpeedEvil: I start flashing, but i see no progress bar. 
Sep 08 23:29:08 <SpeedEvil> Hmm.
Sep 08 23:29:11 <SpeedEvil> ->folken
Sep 08 23:29:14 <Linux_Galore> Meizu M8 -> http://www.engadget.com/2007/02/13/meizu-m8-minione-closer-to-production-litigation/
Sep 08 23:29:23 <folken> SpeedEvil: its stuck at Transfer Size = 0x1000
Sep 08 23:29:49 <folken> oh.. and now it just rebooted. 
Sep 08 23:29:51 <SpeedEvil> folken: sorry - I'm out, and have no real suggestions - other than to turn it off and turn it on again.
Sep 08 23:30:55 <Elrond> folken - Bv04 from china?
Sep 08 23:32:19 <Elrond> SpeedEvil - Ahh. Like a friend and me playing with an 8051 and I always think "oh well, we have to code _everything_". And you want to avoid that. :-)
Sep 08 23:34:07 <SpeedEvil> Elrond: basically. Implementing TCP/IP with a novel set of bugs is not entirely rewarding, forex.
Sep 08 23:34:39 <Elrond> Oh yeah.
Sep 08 23:34:52 <Elrond> I _know_ exactly that quite well. (as a user)
Sep 08 23:35:33 <Elrond> compiled some of my networking tools for a new OS. Instead of debugging my tools and making them run better, I neded up debugging the kernels networking stack. ;o)
Sep 08 23:38:30 <folken> Elrond: yes gta01bv4 made in china. 
Sep 08 23:39:12 <folken> what i also don't get is, that the phone turns on as soon as i plug in usb. 
Sep 08 23:39:20 <folken> i don't think it did that before. 
Sep 08 23:40:45 <cesarb> folken: if I read the datasheet correctly, it turns on if the difference between battery and charger voltage is above a certain threshold
Sep 08 23:41:24 <cesarb> folken: the best thing would be if uboot was able to detect that, stop booting and charge instead... requiring a button press to actually boot (oh, and turn off again when the charging is done)
Sep 08 23:44:47 <folken> cesarb, Elrond, SpeedEvil i uploaded a new uboot version now.. at least i'm seeing a progress bar now when i try to flash the rootfs. 
Sep 08 23:48:35 <Linux_Galore> hmm LG KU990U looks interesting (new Prada)
Sep 08 23:48:42 <Linux_Galore> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AAjQUVwdmag
Sep 08 23:55:56 <spikebike> Linux_Galore what os/platform is it?  
Sep 08 23:56:04 <spikebike> i.e. can you write aps for it?
Sep 08 23:57:57 <Linux_Galore> spikebike: dont know to be honest
Sep 08 23:58:15 <Linux_Galore> spikebike: I think its a in house OS
Sep 08 23:59:16 <hypa7ia> so probably montavista :p
Sep 09 00:00:25 <spikebike> heh, I just want a decent phone, edge or better, bluetooth, and the ability to write stuff for it with linux
Sep 09 00:00:37 <Linux_Galore> no I would suspect its using a variant of TRON
Sep 09 00:01:01 <spikebike> so future openmoko, or maybe some google project are my leading contenders
Sep 09 00:01:47 <Linux_Galore> I think we will have to wait till 2008for the OM guys to get up to speed hardware wise 
Sep 09 00:01:55 <Linux_Galore> ie 3G
Sep 09 00:02:34 <spikebike> seems like nokia is considering a linux phone
Sep 09 00:02:54 <spikebike> motorola even based their devel on eclipse (Which runs on linux) but still tied it to windows *grump*
Sep 09 00:03:02 <Linux_Galore> spikebike: they have been saying that for a while but I dont see anything on the 2008 release
Sep 09 00:03:58 <SpeedEvil> 'linux phone' is irrelevant.
Sep 09 00:04:04 <SpeedEvil> Open linux phone is relevant.
Sep 09 00:04:25 <SpeedEvil> It can be tied down so hard you can't run anything on it.
Sep 09 00:04:27 <meus> nokia do have the 770 and 800 tablets, but they are not phones i guess
Sep 09 00:04:49 <Linux_Galore> Nokia have a iPhone clone video, may get lucky and they put Linux on the thing
Sep 09 00:04:54 <meus> SpeedEvil: true, I hate all these locked down phones
Sep 09 00:05:08 <spikebike> I'm kinda surprised smart phones aren't more devel friendly
Sep 09 00:05:13 <spikebike> they want aps... right?
Sep 09 00:05:29 <SpeedEvil> IMO - there is nothing inherently wrong with locking down - but you should be able to buy unlocked ones
Sep 09 00:05:37 <meus> the telecom business must be scared shitless on voip
Sep 09 00:05:39 <Linux_Galore> spikebike: its not the makers its the service providers who prefere the phones to be locked down
Sep 09 00:05:42 <SpeedEvil> If they believe the apps are subsidising the phone
Sep 09 00:06:18 <spikebike> I don't even particularly care about native
Sep 09 00:06:28 <spikebike> writing java in eclipse could work
Sep 09 00:06:32 <Linux_Galore> spikebike: the service providers use the phones to push extra services
Sep 09 00:06:40 <spikebike> I find things like maemo mapper to be really nice to have
Sep 09 00:06:54 <folken> Does anyone have an md5sum of the P1-September-Snapshot-20070908-fic-gta01.rootfs.jffs2 snapshot? 
Sep 09 00:07:58 <spikebike> this is especially puzzling to me now that 500 Mhz CPUs are common, as is storage expansion in the 2GB and up area
Sep 09 00:11:08 <spikebike> I dreamed about computers like today's phones, fast enough for video, 24/7 network connections, low power for keyboards, gps, or headset.
Sep 09 00:12:34 <spikebike> not to mention wifi
Sep 09 00:13:48 <folken> it just isnt' as useable as one wishes it to be. 
Sep 09 00:14:41 <folken> for example the p9XX series i know: frequently crash, take ages to boot (4 minutes).. 
Sep 09 00:15:26 <spikebike> egads
Sep 09 00:15:37 <spikebike> my quad core desktop takes less than that ;-)
Sep 09 00:15:41 <spikebike> strange
Sep 09 00:15:49 <spikebike> developer.motorola.com claims the v9 is linux
Sep 09 00:16:00 <spikebike> but everything I've heard up to now says only the razr2 v8 is linux
Sep 09 00:20:14 <folken> spikebike: http://developer.motorola.com/technologies/linuxos/
Sep 09 00:24:54 <spikebike> I think it's a mistake
Sep 09 00:25:04 <spikebike> v8 is linux/java
Sep 09 00:25:21 <spikebike> v9/v9m are 3g, much slower cpu, and their traditional razr platform
Sep 09 00:26:24 <aevin> I've been away for the last two weeks. what's the latest estimate on GTA02 RTM (release to market)?
Sep 09 00:26:29 <aloril> (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Main_Page/es]] [[Advanced_End-user/es]] [[System_Developer/es]] [[OpenMoko_Local_Groups:_Norway]] [[OpenMoko_Local_Groups:_Oslo]] [[Application_Development_FAQ]] [[Application_Developer/es]]
Sep 09 00:27:03 <rwhitby> aevin: no new information, so I'm still predicting Nov for P0, Jan for P1 and who knows for P2.  I have no inside information.
Sep 09 00:28:18 <aevin> rwhitby: okay, thanks for the info.
Sep 09 00:28:25 <spikebike> p[012] means what?
Sep 09 00:28:43 <aevin> spikebike: phase 0, 1 or 2
Sep 09 00:29:46 <rwhitby> aevin: I haven't given you any info there, just idle speculation ;-)
Sep 09 00:30:36 <folken> at last my phone boots again. 
Sep 09 00:32:23 <aevin> spikebike: you can read about the idea behind the different phases here , but that is for the old model (with old time estimates): http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2007-January/001586.html
Sep 09 00:32:35 <folken> correction.. it looks up when it tries to play the startup sound.. 
Sep 09 00:33:02 <rwhitby> we have heard that the P0 P1 P2 model will be applied for all hardware releases.
Sep 09 00:33:13 <aevin> rwhitby: but I know you've been around here while I was away, so if something had been announced I am sure you would have known.
Sep 09 00:33:44 <spikebike> hopefully google will announce all mobile apps for openmoko ;-)
Sep 09 00:34:02 <hypa7ia> i wonder how many they ordered
Sep 09 00:34:03 <hypa7ia> hehe
Sep 09 00:34:07 <hypa7ia> of the dev phones
Sep 09 00:36:00 <aevin> hopefully the openmoko inc. has straighten out some of their logistics problem, so things will go abit smoother with the GTA02. hopefully causing less stress and irritation among the hired devs too.
Sep 09 00:36:36 <folken> does actually someone test the releases/snapshots/whatever !? 
Sep 09 00:37:02 <folken> this stuff doesn't even boot. it crashes on playing the startup sound.. 
Sep 09 00:37:11 <folken> reproducably. 
Sep 09 00:37:21 <folken> annoying.. waste of time. 
Sep 09 00:37:23 <aevin> folken: are you grabbing images from the openmoko buildhost?
Sep 09 00:37:34 <folken> http://buildhost.openmoko.org/OM2007.2/tmp/deploy/glibc/images/fic-gta01/
Sep 09 00:37:51 <folken> the september snapshot from today. 
Sep 09 00:38:06 <cesarb> folken: daily snapshots are built, not tested
Sep 09 00:38:17 <cesarb> folken: it's only that august snapshot which was tested
Sep 09 00:38:42 <folken> cesarb: yes.. and that one foobars if you do an ipkg update/upgrade 
Sep 09 00:38:47 <folken> fubars
Sep 09 00:39:50 <aevin> folken: i'm not sure how that buildhost is set up. if it's automated and builds snapshots automatically from source repo without interaction or if it's manually triggered for building images when assumed-to-be-stable states are reached.
Sep 09 00:41:01 <aevin> seems like cesarb just explained why they won't work.
Sep 09 00:41:31 <cesarb> aevin: that one is automatic
Sep 09 00:41:36 <aevin> folken: if you've got the latest, file a bug report ;-)
Sep 09 00:41:57 <cesarb> aevin: though someone did a manual cleanup of it some days ago, to clear build issues caused by a new gcc version
Sep 09 00:45:53 <folken> aevin: i just documented it in the wiki
Sep 09 00:47:42 <rwhitby> webkit fails to build:
Sep 09 00:47:42 <rwhitby> | ../../../WebCore/loader/icon/IconDatabase.cpp:206: error: 'EDEADLK' was not declared in this scope
Sep 09 00:47:46 <folken> aevin: i no longer write bug reports for so very obvious stuff. 
Sep 09 00:48:01 <aevin> yeah, i see.
Sep 09 00:48:09 <rwhitby> aevin: buildhost is manually triggered by mickey
Sep 09 00:48:35 <rwhitby> but it seems not tested
Sep 09 00:48:54 <aevin> i noticed http://wiki.openmoko.org/index.php?title=Neo1973 has some guesstimates of the future timeline ... of course it's unreliable.
Sep 09 00:48:57 <rwhitby> but that is fair enough - only releases and snapshots are tested
Sep 09 00:49:14 <rwhitby> if you want stable, then install the august snapshot, and remove the update feeds
Sep 09 00:49:20 <folken> rwhitby: snapshot for today is defently not tested. 
Sep 09 00:49:30 <rwhitby> folken: that's not a snapshot
Sep 09 00:49:45 <rwhitby> snapshots are here: http://buildhost.openmoko.org/snapshots/
Sep 09 00:50:03 <rwhitby> untested builds are here: http://buildhost.openmoko.org/OM2007.2/tmp/
Sep 09 00:50:46 <rwhitby> and as expected, untested builds are sometimes broken
Sep 09 00:50:56 <folken> then somebody should remove the name "snapshot" in the file. 
Sep 09 00:51:07 <folken> http://buildhost.openmoko.org/OM2007.2/tmp/deploy/glibc/images/fic-gta01/OpenMoko-openmoko-devel-image-glibc-ipk-P1-September-Snapshot-20070908-fic-gta01.rootfs.jffs2
Sep 09 00:51:29 <rwhitby> folken: agreed
Sep 09 00:52:27 <rwhitby> but you can't really go looking for images in a 'tmp' directory (which is obviously not official) and expect it to be a supported snapshot
Sep 09 00:52:40 * raster kicks gettext-native
Sep 09 00:53:06 <rwhitby> people can't complain about things not being open enough, and then also complain when being open means also exposing broken things.
Sep 09 00:53:13 <folken> rwhitby: ah forget it, i was just a little upset since its 3am and everthing is broken. I should go to bed. 
Sep 09 00:53:30 <rwhitby> yep
Sep 09 00:53:39 <rwhitby> I felt the same too last night :-)
Sep 09 00:53:47 <folken> sorry. 
Sep 09 00:54:12 <rwhitby> the P1 testing wiki page is a good thing.
Sep 09 00:54:43 <folken> yeah i just added the experience of today. 
Sep 09 00:54:50 <rwhitby> thx
Sep 09 00:55:43 <folken> oh well. good night. 
Sep 09 00:56:00 <aevin> gn, folken 
Sep 09 00:57:56 <raster> anyone else get problems building gettext-native on om?
Sep 09 00:59:45 <SpeedEvil> google-calen/window new
Sep 09 01:00:14 * raster starts again
Sep 09 01:00:38 <SpeedEvil> gah
Sep 09 01:25:51 <kayon> Is it generally safe/necessary to update uboot to the 2007.08 snapshot?
Sep 09 01:27:11 <cesarb> kayon: if you don't update, you must remember to always run "nand erase rootfs" before flashing the rootfs
Sep 09 01:27:20 <cesarb> kayon: other than that, there's no need to update
Sep 09 01:27:43 <cesarb> kayon: if you have a debug board or know someone with a debug board nearby, there shouldn't be a problem
Sep 09 01:28:59 <kayon> cesarb: thanks. nearest debug board seems to be 1000km away! 
Sep 09 01:29:08 <raster> oops
Sep 09 01:29:13 <cesarb> kayon: where are you?
Sep 09 01:29:31 <kayon> cesarb: Canberra - Australia!
Sep 09 01:29:51 <cesarb> kayon: there are people with debug boards on Australia AFAIK...
Sep 09 01:30:06 <raster> australia is not a small place...
Sep 09 01:30:19 <cesarb> raster: one of the ten largest countries, isn't it?
Sep 09 01:30:32 <kayon> cesarb: have been getting by with the nand erase rootfs etc - minor inconvenience
Sep 09 01:30:48 <SpeedEvil> IMO.
Sep 09 01:30:58 <SpeedEvil> Put nand erase rootfs on a u-boot menu item
Sep 09 01:31:01 <cesarb> Yeah, the next largest on wikipedia's list, just after mine
Sep 09 01:32:04 <kayon> SpeedEvil: what a good idea!!! where to find instructions?
Sep 09 01:32:07 <raster> cesarb: not sure there. it's about the size of the continental usa
Sep 09 01:32:14 <raster> cesarb: (excluding alaska)
Sep 09 01:32:25 <raster> so having a few boards in .au doesn't help much
Sep 09 01:32:29 <raster> if they are... 1000km away
Sep 09 01:32:30 <SpeedEvil> kayon: in [[bootloader]]
Sep 09 01:32:30 <raster> eg
Sep 09 01:32:34 <raster> sydney or melbourne
Sep 09 01:32:39 <raster> or further afield from canberraq
Sep 09 01:32:45 <SpeedEvil> It says how to add one to charge drom a dumb charger
Sep 09 01:33:46 <kayon> I saw mention of someone in Sydney shipping to rwhitby in Adelaide to unbrick
Sep 09 01:34:09 <raster> dont worry
Sep 09 01:34:17 <raster> i have a debug board
Sep 09 01:34:28 <raster> i'll be back in sydney soon
Sep 09 01:34:31 <raster> in a few months
Sep 09 01:35:15 <cesarb> sleep: intervalo de tempo inválido `setenv'
Sep 09 01:35:20 <rwhitby> canberra to adelaide is just an overnight courier
Sep 09 01:35:27 <cesarb> great, flashing to qemu seems to be broken
Sep 09 01:36:29 <kayon> rwhitby: thanks for the reassurance! I might give the uboot update a try
Sep 09 01:36:41 <cesarb> ah, no, it's just what happens if I didn't compile uboot
Sep 09 01:37:15 <kayon> I've not had any kernel/rootfs transfers fail so I can't see why uboot would
Sep 09 01:37:22 <rwhitby> kayon: use a known good uboot.  use a machine with a tested dfu-util (test it on rootfs or kernel first).  use the named argument to -a instead of the number (less chance of mistake)
Sep 09 01:37:53 <rwhitby> if you do all that, and don't have a power-failure (perhaps do it from a laptop with a good battery), then you'll be fine
Sep 09 01:38:15 <kayon> rwhitby: all good advice. Ta.
Sep 09 01:38:22 <rwhitby> if something goes wrong, don't panic, cause you can keep flashing it until you get it right, as long as you don't power cycle the neo
Sep 09 01:40:08 * rwhitby does some openwrt building instead, since openmoko builds are irrevocably broken today.
Sep 09 01:40:46 <rwhitby> hmm - wonder if openwrt will work on the neo ...
Sep 09 01:40:54 <SpeedEvil> :)
Sep 09 01:41:17 <raster> rwhitby: wrieless routing usbnet -> gsm?
Sep 09 01:41:18 <raster> :)
Sep 09 01:41:37 <rwhitby> probably do that for the P0 Bv3 device when I use it as an asterisk<->gsm gateway
Sep 09 01:41:39 <codyl> I can't flash my Neo !  I get "End of write exceeds partition end"
Sep 09 01:41:54 <rwhitby> what argument are you giving to -a ?
Sep 09 01:42:34 <codyl> rwhitby, 1
Sep 09 01:42:43 <rwhitby> should use named arguments for a start ...
Sep 09 01:42:51 <rwhitby> kernel, rootfs, etc
Sep 09 01:43:12 <cesarb> isn't partition 1 u-boot_env? or is it 2?
Sep 09 01:43:28 <codyl> I'm just taking this from the wiki
Sep 09 01:43:33 <rwhitby> that's why I use the names
Sep 09 01:43:38 <codyl> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Flashing_openmoko
Sep 09 01:43:49 * rwhitby fixes that to use names
Sep 09 01:43:55 <cesarb> codyl: the wiki is outdated then, because nowadays we always use the names
Sep 09 01:44:37 <codyl> cesarb, ah yes.. I see the issue - I didn't read careful enough - I'll probably have to reflash u-boot
Sep 09 01:46:24 <rwhitby> can someone double-check my edit on http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Flashing_openmoko ?
Sep 09 01:47:50 <cesarb> rwhitby: your edit looks good, but...
Sep 09 01:48:14 <cesarb> rwhitby: there's a bit of FUD up there ^ saying you must nand erase
Sep 09 01:48:28 <cesarb> rwhitby: and the link goes to a page which says you have to use nand erase _clean_ rootfs
Sep 09 01:48:39 <cesarb> rwhitby: what does that clean do? erase bad block info?
Sep 09 01:48:47 <rwhitby> no idea
Sep 09 01:49:06 <rwhitby> first thing I did was install a uboot which does that for me
Sep 09 01:50:03 <SpeedEvil> nand erase rootfs is required if you've put lots of crap on your rootfs and want to upgrade. Otherwise things go wierd.
Sep 09 01:50:38 <cesarb> SpeedEvil: newer uboot (the august snapshot one included) do that for you automatically
Sep 09 01:51:08 <SpeedEvil> cesarb: you mean the shipped on?
Sep 09 01:51:18 <SpeedEvil> Because it diddn't.
Sep 09 01:51:31 <cesarb> SpeedEvil: no, the one from the first 2007.2 snapshot
Sep 09 01:51:37 <SpeedEvil> ah
Sep 09 01:51:38 <cesarb> SpeedEvil: not the older shipped one
Sep 09 01:51:41 <SpeedEvil> not done that yet.
Sep 09 01:51:50 <raster> why me... why...
Sep 09 01:51:57 <raster> why doe om NEVER build for me
Sep 09 01:52:25 <cesarb> (since I have a debug board, first thing was to flash the kernel to check dfu was working, and second thing was to flash with that version... having to type "nand erase rootfs" all the time would have been annoying)
Sep 09 01:52:32 <cesarb> raster: bad timing
Sep 09 01:52:39 <raster> every weekend
Sep 09 01:52:41 <raster> i try
Sep 09 01:52:47 <raster> this weekend its gettext
Sep 09 01:52:47 <cesarb> raster: you see, it was building fine yesterday
Sep 09 01:53:00 <raster> i started again just now
Sep 09 01:53:02 <cesarb> raster: gettext? it's webkit for me
Sep 09 01:53:06 <raster> and got parse errors in bb files
Sep 09 01:53:10 <raster> nah
Sep 09 01:53:14 <raster> webkit built before for me
Sep 09 01:53:21 <raster> but i got livxfsomething broken before
Sep 09 01:53:28 <raster> i have yet to have it build
Sep 09 01:55:02 <codyl> rwhitby, okay I got the new rootfs to flash properly (with -a 5) ..but now it hangs at "Freeing init memory"
Sep 09 01:55:14 <raster> time to do this baby again
Sep 09 01:55:41 <raster> thank god i have piles of cpu grunt and bandwidth
Sep 09 01:55:49 * raster hugs japan for its bandwidth
Sep 09 01:56:12 <codyl> raster, ya I love it too..even in hotels its better than my home connection
Sep 09 01:56:56 <raster> aye
Sep 09 01:56:59 <raster> 100mbit fibre
Sep 09 01:57:09 <raster> no xfer quotas/caps
Sep 09 01:57:15 <raster> $40/mo
Sep 09 01:57:46 <raster> i can just keep downloading OE svn trees and monotone updates until the cows come home
Sep 09 01:57:55 <raster> shame openembedded.org is so slow
Sep 09 01:58:08 <raster> i only get 250kb/sec out of the sucker
Sep 09 01:58:11 <raster> :(
Sep 09 02:01:10 <codyl> only heh
Sep 09 02:01:13 <codyl> :-)
Sep 09 02:01:25 <codyl> raster, すごい
Sep 09 02:01:32 <raster> well...
Sep 09 02:01:45 <raster> i would like to pull at 10mb/sec
Sep 09 02:01:52 <raster> as in theory thats what i should do
Sep 09 02:02:06 <raster> but i have yet to see any part of the interweeb exceed about 30mbit to me
Sep 09 02:03:52 <dotmef> hi all
Sep 09 02:03:57 <roh> raster thats the latency...
Sep 09 02:04:22 <raster> roh: possibly
Sep 09 02:04:41 <raster> thats within japan
Sep 09 02:04:51 <raster> oh well
Sep 09 02:05:03 <raster> its just nice to know u have more bandwidth than you know what to do with
Sep 09 02:05:04 <aking> raster: are your bb parse errors showing a bad qmake-base ?
Sep 09 02:05:05 <raster> on tap
Sep 09 02:05:20 <raster> aking: too late - long past my scrollback buffer
Sep 09 02:05:32 <raster> i re-fetched a new everything
Sep 09 02:05:34 <raster> am starting again
Sep 09 02:07:40 <aking> raster: ok - if you do get it again, it looks like some oe person decided to change qmake-base.bb -> qmake_base.bb a couple of hours ago.  I just added a symlink and it went away.
Sep 09 02:08:26 <raster> aaah
Sep 09 02:08:32 <raster> that woudl explain the sudden b0rk
Sep 09 02:08:58 <raster> maybe it was a change but only part of it was in
Sep 09 02:09:05 <raster> still in the middle of fixing it up
Sep 09 02:09:19 <aking> maybe - still dies in webkit though.  
Sep 09 02:10:06 <bedboi> is there some magical spell to know if my order will be accepted?
Sep 09 02:10:13 <bedboi> any people to ask.
Sep 09 02:11:48 <raster> bedboi: not sure
Sep 09 02:12:34 <raster> ok om
Sep 09 02:12:36 <raster> BUILD!
Sep 09 02:15:03 <raster> aking: ...
Sep 09 02:15:13 <aking> raster: ya
Sep 09 02:15:16 <raster> NOTE: Handling BitBake files: | (1183/4671) [25 %]ERROR: Could not inherit file classes/qmake-base.bbclass while parsing /home/raster/moko/openembedded/packages/snes9x/snes9x-sdl-qpe_1.39.bb
Sep 09 02:15:19 <raster> yup
Sep 09 02:15:23 <raster> same thing
Sep 09 02:15:51 <aking> yup - that's what I got - just add symlink to qmake-base.bb in classes
Sep 09 02:15:59 <rwhitby> let's see what I can do to fix that
Sep 09 02:17:40 <aking> oppss - *bbclass 
Sep 09 02:18:00 <aking> moko@trinity ~ $ ls -al openembedded/classes/qmake-base.bbclass 
Sep 09 02:18:00 <aking> lrwxrwxrwx 1 moko moko 18 Sep  8 22:00 openembedded/classes/qmake-base.bbclass -> qmake_base.bbclass
Sep 09 02:19:04 <raster> oh come on
Sep 09 02:19:11 <raster> 90% processing bb files...
Sep 09 02:19:48 <rwhitby> rwhitby@etch:/home/moko/openembedded/classes$ ls -l *-* | wc -l
Sep 09 02:19:48 <rwhitby> 32
Sep 09 02:19:48 <rwhitby> rwhitby@etch:/home/moko/openembedded/classes$ ls -l *_* | wc -l
Sep 09 02:19:48 <rwhitby> 20
Sep 09 02:19:50 <aking> raster: it'll proocess - but eventually die in webkit with (WebCore/loader/icon/IconDatabase.cpp:206: error: 'EDEADLK' was not declared in this scope)
Sep 09 02:20:00 <rwhitby> looks like OE can't make up it's mind on class file naming conventions
Sep 09 02:20:03 <aking> I think rwhitby saw the same
Sep 09 02:20:09 <raster> 98%
Sep 09 02:20:20 <raster> its just... not being instant enough for me
Sep 09 02:20:24 <raster> i'm all about instant
Sep 09 02:20:27 <raster> instant noodles
Sep 09 02:20:37 <raster> instant beer
Sep 09 02:20:42 <raster> instant meat
Sep 09 02:20:49 <raster> instant om builds
Sep 09 02:21:02 <bedboi> ahahah
Sep 09 02:21:08 <bedboi> instant beer???
Sep 09 02:21:10 <bedboi> what's that?
Sep 09 02:21:21 <bedboi> :)
Sep 09 02:21:22 <raster> bedboi: the beer thats already in my fridge
Sep 09 02:21:22 <raster> :)
Sep 09 02:21:53 <bedboi> yep,that's instant. I hate instant stuff but now i'm in the us i must get used to that.
Sep 09 02:22:48 <bedboi> this country is perfectly orthogonal to Italy in food matters
Sep 09 02:23:02 <raster> hahahaha
Sep 09 02:23:12 <raster> san fran has some good italian joints
Sep 09 02:23:34 <bedboi> my grandmother takes at least 4 hours to prepare the "sugo" (tomato sauce)
Sep 09 02:24:15 <bedboi> i have to visit sf, i'm quite `close`
Sep 09 02:25:18 <kayon> rwhitby: I flashed the 2007.08 u-boot image without a hassle. Thanks.
Sep 09 02:25:51 <raster> bedboi: l'ottavio on sutter is good
Sep 09 02:26:03 <raster> not far from union square
Sep 09 02:26:12 <aloril> (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[User:CesarB/Requirements]] [[Flashing_openmoko]] [[Neo1973:_GTA01Bv4_versus_GTA02_comparison]] [[Wish_List_-_Hardware]] [[Phase_1_Software_Testing]]
Sep 09 02:26:29 <rwhitby> raster: pushing a qmake_base fix now
Sep 09 02:27:15 <raster> now autoconf breaks
Sep 09 02:27:33 <raster> hoo-f*#%!@g-ray
Sep 09 02:27:54 <raster> oh now
Sep 09 02:27:56 <raster> a make update
Sep 09 02:27:58 <raster> and now it works
Sep 09 02:28:03 * raster kicks things
Sep 09 02:28:11 <raster> my sense of instantness is being disturbed
Sep 09 02:29:18 <raster> ok
Sep 09 02:29:19 <raster> gettext again
Sep 09 02:29:20 <raster> ...
Sep 09 02:29:24 <raster> here we go
Sep 09 02:30:57 <sagacis> Hey! My build worked too!
Sep 09 02:31:16 <aking> raster: have you been able to get EFL running under om yet? I want to see exquisite running on the neo!
Sep 09 02:31:55 <rwhitby> qmake_base fix pushed
Sep 09 02:35:29 <raster> yay!
Sep 09 02:35:31 <raster> gettext again
Sep 09 02:35:41 <raster> aking:  nup - i have yet to have om build
Sep 09 02:35:42 <raster> ever
Sep 09 02:35:43 <raster> once
Sep 09 02:36:20 <raster> | make[5]: Leaving directory `/home/raster/moko/build/tmp/work/i686-linux/gettext-native-0.14.1-r5/gettext-0.14.1/gettext-tools/misc'
Sep 09 02:36:20 <raster> | mv: cannot stat `elc-temp': No such file or directory
Sep 09 02:36:20 <raster> | make[5]: *** [elc-stamp] Error 1
Sep 09 02:36:26 <raster> today's fun error
Sep 09 02:36:34 <aking> raster:  it did build yesterday :(  
Sep 09 02:37:28 <raster> i've gotten gettext to build before
Sep 09 02:37:33 <raster> other times it was something else
Sep 09 02:37:38 <raster> always something that doesnt build
Sep 09 02:37:45 <raster> always somerthign different
Sep 09 02:37:55 <raster> and my patience to spend time fixing it is zero
Sep 09 02:38:02 <raster> as i have enough code to work on in E land
Sep 09 02:38:05 <rwhitby> I think someone is working on a sane-srcrevs.bb file
Sep 09 02:38:12 <raster> it will work on the neo
Sep 09 02:38:13 <raster> i know that
Sep 09 02:38:18 <raster> it works on my n800
Sep 09 02:38:24 <raster> it works on arm - has for a long time
Sep 09 02:38:34 <rwhitby> that's the correct defense against ever-changing upstream
Sep 09 02:38:35 <raster> so i see almost no value in "get it to work" for me
Sep 09 02:38:37 <raster> as it will
Sep 09 02:38:54 <raster> i am confident of that
Sep 09 02:38:59 <raster> rwhitby: that'd be really nice
Sep 09 02:39:06 <raster> i want a stable working om base
Sep 09 02:39:16 <raster> and then an unstable set of "my crap" packages
Sep 09 02:39:40 <bedboi> i want some reply from FIC about my order :)
Sep 09 02:40:22 <raster> rwhitby: fixed the qmake thing upstream yet?
Sep 09 02:40:22 <bedboi> raster: damn i need some beer.
Sep 09 02:40:23 <mwester> There's a familiar cry...
Sep 09 02:40:28 <raster> bedboi: hahaha
Sep 09 02:40:42 <raster> bedboi: its sunday - don't expect much to happen on a sunday.
Sep 09 02:40:54 <rwhitby> <rwhitby> qmake_base fix pushed
Sep 09 02:41:04 <raster> ok
Sep 09 02:41:06 <raster> done?
Sep 09 02:41:07 <raster> cool
Sep 09 02:41:21 <rwhitby> 9 minutes ago :-)
Sep 09 02:41:23 <bedboi> raster: i still don't know how buying beer works in us
Sep 09 02:41:37 <raster> well just wondering if its stilll. pushing
Sep 09 02:41:38 <raster> :)
Sep 09 02:41:49 <raster> bedboi: you go the luqior store
Sep 09 02:41:53 <raster> you buy a case
Sep 09 02:41:55 <raster> u take it home
Sep 09 02:41:57 <raster> u drink it
Sep 09 02:42:08 <rwhitby> 11:56 <rwhitby> raster: pushing a qmake_base fix now
Sep 09 02:42:11 <bedboi> raster: you are missing one point. I don't have a car.
Sep 09 02:42:13 <rwhitby> 12:01 <rwhitby> qmake_base fix pushed
Sep 09 02:42:18 <bedboi> so i'm basically fucked-up
Sep 09 02:42:43 <roh> hm.. then i'll also do a clean rebuild.. to see whats happening
Sep 09 02:43:37 <raster> bedboi: oooh. then you walk to the store
Sep 09 02:43:47 <bedboi> and i think that grocery stores like 7-eleven don't sell "alcohol" (I never considered beer as alcoholic)
Sep 09 02:43:48 <raster> and have a strong back to strap the case to
Sep 09 02:43:49 <raster> :)
Sep 09 02:43:53 <aking> raster: http://www.rasterman.com/files/eem.avi  <- you think the neo hardware could support that smooth animation?
Sep 09 02:44:12 <sagacis> bedboi, where are you'?
Sep 09 02:44:13 <raster> aking: that was a 206mhz ipaq 9660. so yes
Sep 09 02:44:24 <bedboi> sagacis: Albuquerque, NM
Sep 09 02:44:34 <aking> That's what the neo needs some of - some flash and style...
Sep 09 02:44:35 <sagacis> Hmm... Not sure about the laws there.
Sep 09 02:44:43 <bedboi> stupid stuff
Sep 09 02:44:50 <sagacis> Where I live, the 7eleven has beer and wine online
Sep 09 02:44:52 <sagacis> only
Sep 09 02:45:02 * sagacis has been consuming some tonight
Sep 09 02:45:06 <mwester> New Mexico without a car?
Sep 09 02:45:11 <bedboi> it's the worst thing ever, that you can't buy beer when you want
Sep 09 02:45:11 <mwester> Oh dear...
Sep 09 02:45:24 <raster> aking:  tho that was qcga
Sep 09 02:45:26 <sagacis> What can you do in Albquerque without a car?
Sep 09 02:45:26 <raster> qvga
Sep 09 02:45:27 <bedboi> mwester: i don't want to buy a car for a 2-months stay
Sep 09 02:45:29 <raster> not vga
Sep 09 02:45:33 <raster> so thats 4x as many pixels to fill
Sep 09 02:45:34 <bedboi> sagacis: nothing
Sep 09 02:45:41 <raster> the gta-02 should do it without blinking though
Sep 09 02:45:44 <sagacis> I have family albequerque....
Sep 09 02:45:46 <mwester> Yeah but that would be like being in prison for two months!
Sep 09 02:46:05 <aking> would be nice to try though.  I've been trying to play with efl on the neo - but bb files fail
Sep 09 02:46:08 <mwester> (not the family part - that would make it more bearable :)
Sep 09 02:46:23 <bedboi> mwester: yep. that's the case.
Sep 09 02:46:32 <bedboi> mwester: good that i have to work a lot.
Sep 09 02:46:38 <bedboi> and then back to europe
Sep 09 02:46:50 <bedboi> the place where you can buy a beer and drink it on the street
Sep 09 02:46:52 <dotmef> is there a quick way to compile a change to source or do I need to use a local overlay?
Sep 09 02:47:39 <sagacis> mwester: You haven't met my family
Sep 09 02:48:05 <bedboi> sagacis: ahah, where do they live?
Sep 09 02:48:37 <bedboi> i'm in NE. btw i'm year since one month and i still don't have any idea of how this city works
Sep 09 02:48:47 <bedboi> s/year/here
Sep 09 02:48:56 <bedboi> ahaha, cool typo
Sep 09 02:49:22 <raster> i wonder if gettext builds break if emacs isnt installed
Sep 09 02:49:24 <raster> hrrrm
Sep 09 02:50:16 <sagacis> bedboi: my sister's in Santa Fe. Her husband is from Albequerque.
Sep 09 02:50:17 <raster> oh no feckin way
Sep 09 02:50:18 <sagacis> Nice place.
Sep 09 02:50:24 <raster> i think thats why
Sep 09 02:50:41 <raster> if emacs is enabled it'll build elc-temp
Sep 09 02:50:45 <raster> but if it isnt
Sep 09 02:50:47 <raster> it wont build it
Sep 09 02:50:50 <raster> but still try and mv it
Sep 09 02:51:03 <raster> hmm no
Sep 09 02:51:07 <raster> it touches it first
Sep 09 02:51:09 <raster> grrr
Sep 09 02:51:18 <raster> but
Sep 09 02:51:21 <raster> now it builds
Sep 09 02:51:24 <raster> bastards!
Sep 09 02:51:26 <sagacis> ouch.
Sep 09 02:51:27 <raster> u need emacs installed!
Sep 09 02:51:28 <rwhitby> webkit still broken.
Sep 09 02:51:34 <sagacis> That's pretty bad.
Sep 09 02:51:35 * rwhitby continues openwrt hacking instead
Sep 09 02:51:43 <raster> install emacs
Sep 09 02:51:43 <sagacis> rwhitby: What's wrong with webkit?
Sep 09 02:51:44 <raster> gettext works
Sep 09 02:52:05 <raster> where on the wiki shoudl i put "common things that are broken"?
Sep 09 02:52:16 <raster> so others ca`n know to install emacs....
Sep 09 02:52:20 <sagacis> Put it on the build status page
Sep 09 02:52:21 <raster> (grrrr)
Sep 09 02:52:32 <sagacis> Or if it's build only... Don't know
Sep 09 02:52:41 <sagacis> ubuntu gives me emacs
Sep 09 02:54:24 <raster> not by default
Sep 09 02:54:28 <rwhitby> sagacis: | ../../../WebCore/loader/icon/IconDatabase.cpp:206: error: 'EDEADLK' was not declared in this scope
Sep 09 02:55:55 <bedboi> is there any gobject guru? I need to know if someone has never serialized a gobject
Sep 09 02:59:49 <mwester> Take feedreader out the openmoko task bb file, and say the heck with webkit -- at least until it stabilizes a bit!
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Sun Sep 09 02:59:56 2007