**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Sep 19 02:59:57 2007 Sep 19 03:00:23 'night all Sep 19 03:02:41 ~ugt Sep 19 03:02:41 extra, extra, read all about it, ugt is Universal Greeting Time. Created in #mipslinux, it is a rule that states that whenever somebody enters an IRC channel it is always morning, and it is always late when the person leaves. The local time of any other people in the channel, including the greeter, is irrelevant. http://www.total-knowledge.com/~ilya/mips/ugt.html Sep 19 03:42:16 Any successful bitbake users here? Sep 19 03:42:17 ecloud: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (and also SH1, SH1_FAQ, Neo1973, Developer_preview and Neo1973_Hardware#GTA01Bv4 pages) (Hopefully these links answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) Sep 19 03:49:44 hello eveyone Sep 19 03:50:00 anybody else have bad levels on qtopia calls - mike too hot - speaker too low? Sep 19 03:50:24 s/mike/mic/ Sep 19 03:50:25 Writchie meant: anybody else have bad levels on qtopia calls - mic too hot - speaker too low? Sep 19 03:51:57 I am new to cross compiling and I want to make a simple console Hello World app on my neo. Sep 19 03:52:46 mv: cannot stat `/var/media/moko/build/tmp/cross/lib/libiberty.a': No such file or directory Sep 19 03:52:51 Kelly: Heya - did you already check the wiki? Sep 19 03:52:53 Kelly: there's an article on the wiki Sep 19 03:53:00 from what I have read on the wiki the instructions are how to build the whole openmoko image, eg 16gb of hdd space. Sep 19 03:53:21 atm the moment you have to do this first Sep 19 03:53:30 eventually there will probably be sdk toolchains Sep 19 03:54:05 so there is no way to use a certain gcc and compile a binary which will run on the neo? Sep 19 03:54:54 Kelly: no yet - you need a cross compiler for arm-eabi and libraries etc. Sep 19 03:55:13 mokomakefile is your best bet atm Sep 19 03:55:44 but you need the disk space and overnight build Sep 19 03:56:40 so it will take all night to build hello world (and openmoko)? Sep 19 03:56:42 Kelly: just for hello world you can compile it on the neo directly Sep 19 03:56:47 ipkg install task-native-sdk Sep 19 03:57:01 but of course it's a very slow machine for compiling :-) Sep 19 03:57:43 yes, i also read that you could possibly use qemu and compile in that? Sep 19 03:58:06 yeah I haven't tried too hard to get that working - have never been able to build the whole image Sep 19 03:58:16 I use the moko makefile, and it never succeeds Sep 19 03:59:33 ok, I havnt yet tried to compile it. It seemed overkill to have to do that just for hello world :P Sep 19 04:00:09 but presumably you will want to move beyond hello world and then need to compile against a lot of libs and stuff Sep 19 04:00:41 Writchie: apparently you managed to build the image? Sep 19 04:00:49 Did you ever run into an error about libiberty.a? Sep 19 04:01:26 Writchie: you said that I would need a cross compiler for arm-eabi and libraries etc. Is this difficult to obtain? Sep 19 04:01:46 it is build as part of the project Sep 19 04:02:07 it builds its own tool chain and uses to compile everything for the target Sep 19 04:02:17 the tool chain runs on your build system Sep 19 04:02:49 it's relatively simple when it works - the only disadvantage is the initial build time Sep 19 04:03:13 ok, so Id only have to do the night build once. then i could simply do /build/tmp/cross/arm-linux/bin/gcc -o hello hello.c etc Sep 19 04:03:20 especially when the build time is "several weeks" because of being unable to get answers when it doesn't work Sep 19 04:03:26 Kelly: pretty much Sep 19 04:04:08 ecloud: yes, unfortunately, people are changing things and breaking the build regularly. Sep 19 04:04:21 well it's been broken for weeks for me, literally Sep 19 04:04:24 although make update openmoko-devel-image is now pretty stable Sep 19 04:04:25 I don't know what to do next Sep 19 04:04:28 ecloud: me too Sep 19 04:04:32 just keep doing the same thing over and over Sep 19 04:04:41 make setup update openmoko-devel-image Sep 19 04:05:06 * hozer has an idea how to fix that build stuff Sep 19 04:05:20 if make setup update openmoko-devel-image is not working then you need you to clobber and start over Sep 19 04:05:36 but it involves basically starting over with openembedded Sep 19 04:05:44 ok I'm game Sep 19 04:05:51 I think I did that already a few days ago... I forget when it was Sep 19 04:06:16 ecloud: i rebuilt everything a few days ago and it worked. Sep 19 04:06:35 but the sdl stuff is now screwing up the make update all Sep 19 04:06:35 I also tried just starting over using the OE Angstrom instructions Sep 19 04:07:00 make update openmoko-devel-image works fine so far for last couple of days Sep 19 04:07:32 There's no reason the directory path is important is there? Sep 19 04:07:37 (wouldn't think so) Sep 19 04:07:56 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Talk:USB]] Sep 19 04:08:06 you can use any directory - just put make file in there and you're good to go Sep 19 04:08:06 I have space on my /var/media so I try to build it there Sep 19 04:08:54 Writchie: Unfortunately the build process builds some things with native system libraries so the build can (and does) fail for various people (e.g. ecloud and me) Sep 19 04:09:27 I use Gentoo, so everything is quite up-to-date Sep 19 04:09:31 abraxa_: yes for me at various times too Sep 19 04:09:48 What are most of the openmoko devs using? Sep 19 04:09:50 ecloud: gentoo is one of the worst distros to support on OE, cause everyone's installation is slightly different. Sep 19 04:09:51 Debian? Sep 19 04:10:05 ecloud: Same, and uicmoc-native has been broken for >1 week now Sep 19 04:10:24 ubuntu 7.04 feisty has been working pretty well Sep 19 04:10:26 I would recommend Debian Etch or Ubuntu 7.04 Sep 19 04:10:36 OK Sep 19 04:10:39 (those are the two I build on almost every day) Sep 19 04:10:46 wonder if I could run it in chroot on top of Gentoo Sep 19 04:11:11 ecloud: That's what I'd try, if I had the disk space :) Sep 19 04:11:25 abraxa_: I had this problem but it was fixed with a link to libXext.so Sep 19 04:11:43 * mwester thinks Fedora 7 isn't a bad choice either, although one usually has to disable locale building with a Fedora 7 build host. Sep 19 04:11:43 this was a temporary fix - I thought they fixed this upstream Sep 19 04:12:00 Writchie: I have the symlink in place and it still breaks Sep 19 04:12:13 freetype too Sep 19 04:12:23 Oh - and avoid 64-bit on the build host for any distro -- nothing but loads of little annoyances and troubles with OE builds... Sep 19 04:12:37 yeah I run gentoo on a 64-bit machine Sep 19 04:12:43 just asking for trouble eh? :-) Sep 19 04:13:27 Writchie: Yeah, I got that one also. It can't find some header files but honestly I couldn't be bothered with looking into it more - got better things to do atm :) Sep 19 04:13:47 abraxa_: ack Sep 19 04:15:08 I am woken up by a strange beep Sep 19 04:15:23 And when I finally found out that it's the nobreak, it's too late Sep 19 04:15:30 rwhitby: looks like we'll have a KDE GNOME type split Sep 19 04:15:49 nobreak? Sep 19 04:15:54 When my arm is less than a meter from the ACPI button, the nobreak battery ends and it powers up Sep 19 04:16:07 and, LESS THAN A MINUTE AFTER THAT, the power comes back on Sep 19 04:16:21 (sorry for the offtopic ranting) Sep 19 04:16:38 when I read arm, I first thought of a processor.... Sep 19 04:16:49 Mek: heh Sep 19 04:16:49 cesarb: while you're up was your sound bad on qtopia calls? Sep 19 04:17:05 Writchie: I only tested on the emulator so far, so no sound ;-) Sep 19 04:17:29 the gsmhandstate file in their rootfs works but mic is too hot and speaker too soft Sep 19 04:17:37 s/power up/power down/ Sep 19 04:17:42 anyway - first call ever for me on the hoardware Sep 19 04:18:00 Writchie: isn't their state files the same everyone is already using all the time? Sep 19 04:18:10 apparently not Sep 19 04:18:15 i'll diff them tommorrow Sep 19 04:18:30 Writchie: perhaps they use the same state files as everyone else, but have an extra volume control on top of it Sep 19 04:18:31 the originals didn't work for me at all Sep 19 04:18:41 cesarb: perhaps Sep 19 04:18:44 Writchie: a misplaced volume control could cause strange-sounding sound problems Sep 19 04:18:59 i've been resisting digging into alsa Sep 19 04:19:10 enough to do with programming d-bus in native c Sep 19 04:20:48 * cesarb decides to, since the uptime is already shot, and the bash histories all lost, do the kernel upgrade I've been putting off so far Sep 19 04:21:54 great, now, since it's past midnight, updatedb decides to run. Sep 19 04:22:55 is there any news on gllin ? Sep 19 04:23:02 Writchie: I'm wondering whether the larger vision of OpenMoko will drive OM to just use Qt Sep 19 04:23:11 hi there. Sep 19 04:23:33 rwhitby: I sure hope not Sep 19 04:23:54 commercial use requires paying royalties to TT Sep 19 04:24:00 rwhitby: it depends on whether the vision depends on commercial third-parties being able to write software without having to pay for a Qt license Sep 19 04:24:02 Kelly: The eabi build is in the works, though not ready for public release Sep 19 04:24:32 * rwhitby remains neutral, waiting to see what OM decides to do ... Sep 19 04:24:45 holy crap, apple are getting 40% of revenue (not just profit) from O2 Sep 19 04:24:54 if openmoko switches to QT a new lgpl project will emerge Sep 19 04:25:05 doc|home: pathetic isn't it Sep 19 04:25:21 doc|home: i though it was profit Sep 19 04:25:26 Writchie: only if they're on the same data plan as the rest of us :/ Sep 19 04:26:01 abraxa_: any eta? Sep 19 04:26:02 iPhone unlimited users in your cell will destroy your service Sep 19 04:26:27 good for other phone providers though because they can not charge it and get lower priced plans Sep 19 04:26:40 Writchie: hopefully only temporarily until they get more kit online Sep 19 04:27:15 Kelly: Nope, however it shouldn't be too long. In the meanwhile you might want to use the oabi version in a chroot if you so desire Sep 19 04:28:32 * Writchie wonders whether qtopia was related to the "dark day for the project" a couple of weeks back??? Sep 19 04:28:46 abraxa_: will do Sep 19 04:28:55 Kelly: http://www.openmoko.org.pl/node/55 Sep 19 04:29:18 Writchie: trying to speculate what was harald getting all worked up about is quite pointless Sep 19 04:29:29 cesarb: very true Sep 19 04:29:32 * mwester wonders why some people would rather see no progress at all, than see another option appear for the Neo. Sep 19 04:29:33 Writchie: it could vary from a shortage of coffee to the end of the world Sep 19 04:29:43 it wasnt at that point I dont think he knew about it Sep 19 04:29:54 cesarb: lol Sep 19 04:30:30 mwester: simply, they are rooting for the "openmoko gtk team", and don't like the appearance of a new strong contender. Think sports. Sep 19 04:31:02 mwester: there is a wide range of ideologies/business-model-proponents/toolkit-evangelists/etc :-) Sep 19 04:31:22 and every camp is represented Sep 19 04:32:20 cesarb: Perhaps a good analogy... there were some Chicago Cubs fans here in Chicago that were unhappy when the Chicago White Sox won the series. I root for both teams. Sep 19 04:33:08 sports, religion, gui toolkits - all seem to be causes for bloodshed Sep 19 04:33:37 mwester: that's because software is Serious Business (see http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SeriousBusiness for instance) Sep 19 04:34:04 mwester: (particularly the "Real Life" part at the end of the page) Sep 19 04:34:28 * mwester just can't get worked up over a GUI toolkit... Sep 19 04:35:47 not everyone is doing this just for fun! Sep 19 04:36:05 I can see Writchie's point about LGPL GTK+ vs Dual-licensed Qtopia - for some people that will make a real difference to their business bottom line. Sep 19 04:37:04 yes, but the neo is a free software phone. Sep 19 04:37:08 Kite flying in Pakistan Sep 19 04:37:10 similar reasons keep many people away from KDE - even though they liked it better in the begining Sep 19 04:37:10 :-) Sep 19 04:37:15 its all about _free_ software Sep 19 04:38:39 ljp: what's the tone of your last statement. Is that deadly serious, or sarcastic, or ironic? Sep 19 04:38:44 Well, for me, the most problematic thing would be that qtopia probably has a slightly higher barrier to contribution (because it probably has a fsf-style copyright paperwork, due to the need to make it possible to dual-license) Sep 19 04:38:48 Ah, but as a mighty battle rages, wherein the free software proponents destroy each other over varying degrees and interpretations of freedom, Steve Jobs and Bill Gates sit on the sideline waiting to take over the small share they haven't already amicably split up between each other. Sep 19 04:39:16 its a statement about lgpl Sep 19 04:39:19 :) Sep 19 04:39:28 cesarb: you flat out cannot use QT in any commercial app Sep 19 04:39:36 QTopia is GPL as of now, right? That means it's free software. Sep 19 04:39:38 without paying tribute to QT Sep 19 04:39:46 We should learn something from Real Business: until you have something people want, there's nothing to fight over! Sep 19 04:40:11 i think we need free of source, documentation, not full free of money. Sep 19 04:40:22 Writchie: you can use the GPL'd version to create a commercial app - you just need to provide the source code to your customers ;-) Sep 19 04:40:39 I'll be happy to help the OM project, and I hope it's a real go, but at the moment qtopia is a working phone on the Neo, and OM is not. Can't argue that. Nothing to fight about. Sep 19 04:40:56 people can do CLOSED SOURCE qtopia stuff Sep 19 04:40:59 or a mix Sep 19 04:41:04 i dont know why they think they caint Sep 19 04:41:05 cant Sep 19 04:41:16 mwester: one wonders whether 'OM' means the wider vision, or the narrower software distribution built on OE and GTK? Sep 19 04:41:35 mwester: actually - neither is working until the PM problems are solved Sep 19 04:41:46 They did blur the lines with the naming of the offshoot company of FIC, didn't they? Sep 19 04:41:52 something terrible Sep 19 04:41:58 it's so confusing now Sep 19 04:42:12 Writchie: Yes. and consider that the solving of the PM problems will solve it for both. Sep 19 04:42:32 mwester: yes Sep 19 04:42:48 if the decision makers in OpenMoko Inc. want the wider vision to progress, and that wider vision does not rely on royalty-free commercial closed source applications being doable, then there would be no conflict (from a CEO's point of view) with just using Qtopia. Sep 19 04:42:48 i'm happy to use qtopia as a phone until the other stuff is further along Sep 19 04:42:59 chroot debian is working well Sep 19 04:43:08 rwhitby: yes Sep 19 04:43:16 Writchie: you can use QT in a commercial app Sep 19 04:43:26 it's already updated monotone and about to get on with the build I think Sep 19 04:43:33 if y ou pay royalties Sep 19 04:43:36 so? Sep 19 04:43:37 that's fair Sep 19 04:43:44 if you SELL software sometimes you might have to PAY for some Sep 19 04:43:57 I installed qtopia as a test, intending to reload the latest OM build once it completed. But I'm pleasantly surprised, and I think I'll leave qtopia on the phone, and add a few extra $$ to the pre-paid SIM since I might actually be using it! Sep 19 04:44:09 rwhitby: er... with just a small problem of a royalty-free commercial closed source application called "gllin"... Sep 19 04:44:12 and when you add up all the dimes and dollars you get the present handset industry Sep 19 04:44:14 But I'm still waiting for the GPS driver... :( Sep 19 04:44:51 any reason gllin wouldn't run on the qtopia image too? Sep 19 04:44:55 Damn, look what I just started! ANOTHER Qt licensing discussion! Sep 19 04:44:57 ecloud: it could be made to work Sep 19 04:45:19 cesarb: no, this is an OpenMoko Inc strategic direction discussion :-) Sep 19 04:45:46 FIC, openmoko.com openmoko.org are three different parties Sep 19 04:45:49 no reason why you can't do a chroot for gllin on qtopia if it is not already compatible ... Sep 19 04:46:22 and "openmoko" is controlled by commercial entity FIC or its subsidiary Sep 19 04:46:32 it would be very interesting to hear Sean's reaction to the QT neo release ... Sep 19 04:46:44 any news on the gllin licensing? Sep 19 04:46:50 it would be quite easy to create an old style nonEABI rootfs for Qtopia Sep 19 04:47:20 we ought to be getting the EABI one any day right? Sep 19 04:47:30 vi is better than emacs, C is better than Java, gtk+ is better than Qt Sep 19 04:47:30 what did i miss? Sep 19 04:47:50 ljp: is qtopia same ABI/gcc/glibc/etc as angstrom? Sep 19 04:47:56 yes Sep 19 04:47:57 rwhitby: I agree there may be a good chance that openmoko might switch to qt - but i see no reason why they would have to do this Sep 19 04:48:13 Writchie: no reason that they have to, agreed. Sep 19 04:48:21 i doubt they will switch Sep 19 04:48:28 i'd be pretty shocked if they did Sep 19 04:48:31 it's definitely an openmoko ceo level decision Sep 19 04:48:45 rwhitby: well, it has "use EABI" on its TODO file... Sep 19 04:48:47 rwhitby: http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS5429713730.html cites Sean's reaction Sep 19 04:48:51 bedboi: Sports and religion were also brought up. Sep 19 04:48:58 cw666: ceo's often do shocking things Sep 19 04:49:10 mwester: well baseball sucks. Sep 19 04:49:14 rwhitby: maybe we'll find out who is in charge Sep 19 04:49:19 ;) Sep 19 04:49:40 mwester: i won't say anything about religion, i don't know so much about that. Sep 19 04:49:56 Actually, there is ONE thing about the whole qtopia to which I object in the strongest possible manner. Sep 19 04:49:57 abraxa_: thx. "In a statement, Sean Moss-Pultz, president of OpenMoko, said, "We welcome Trolltech extending the reach of our Neo1973 and the OpenMoko platform. And we applaud their efforts at simplifying application development for mobile devices. I look forward to a closer collaboration between our two communities."" Sep 19 04:50:12 I *despise* that shade of GREEN!!!!! Sep 19 04:50:41 rwhitby: i get the feeling a lot of OM/FIC/whatever people are wedded for OE/OM for non-technical reasons Sep 19 04:51:34 cw666: it's clear that mickey|zzZZzz is software architect for OM and co-founder of OE. Sep 19 04:52:13 great: openmoko-devel-image is now borked on blueZ Sep 19 04:52:17 rwhitby: ? did i miss something? Sep 19 04:52:44 what's stopping a community from forming around QPE? Sep 19 04:52:49 mwester: a variant of the classic "OLPC green", right? Sep 19 04:53:08 Yeah, but somehow it's not so objectionable on the OLPC Sep 19 04:53:37 mwester: ugh - a real OLPC is pretty objectionable Sep 19 04:53:50 cw666: no, why? Sep 19 04:54:00 I've never actually seen the real hardware. I'd love to check it out someday, though... Sep 19 04:54:01 mwester: didn't the OLPC chose that color on purpose so as to make it obvious to anyone seeing an adult with one of these that something is wrong? Sep 19 04:54:15 rwhitby: i dont see the relevant of the point to what mickey is or isn't as to my earlier comment Sep 19 04:54:16 mwester: i.e., as a _theft deterrent_? Sep 19 04:54:36 mwester: keyboard is totally unusable Sep 19 04:54:56 I read something like that on their web site. They did it deliberately; which makes me really wonder about the Neo in orange... :p Sep 19 04:55:17 cw666: just that if someone is technical architect of two things, then it's reasonable that they would think that one thing is the best solution for the other Sep 19 04:55:35 (otherwise they would be working to change the architecture of one or the other) Sep 19 04:56:05 rwhitby: im sorry, im retarded tonight. im not following you. Sep 19 04:56:19 rwhitby: what other things is he a technical architect for? Sep 19 04:56:23 mwester: ah, the neo in orange is part of openmoko's fiery graphical motif Sep 19 04:56:31 (ok, that didn't convince anyone) Sep 19 04:56:33 cw666: openmoko, and openembedded Sep 19 04:56:51 rwhitby: ok, so again, how is that relevant to my comment? Sep 19 04:56:56 moin Sep 19 04:57:03 in fact, could you not argue that it makes my comment even MORE likely? Sep 19 04:58:47 cw666: I'm not sure I understood your comment then. I was just saying that OM and OE share technical leadership, so decisions are likely to be made from the same technical viewpoint for both. One person's technical viewpoint is often very different from a second person's technical viewpoint. Sep 19 04:59:52 rwhitby: why does it have to be one or the other? (ie. OM can keep using OE, and a fork can start with QPE) Sep 19 05:00:08 ferric: Shared code? Sep 19 05:00:27 ferric: resources split together with the code Sep 19 05:00:31 ferric: I'm not saying it has to be one or the other. I'm simply wondering what the CEO of OpenMoko Inc. is going to decide to do in this situation. Sep 19 05:00:45 rwhitby: probably nothing Sep 19 05:00:48 ferric: of course, that completely ignores the extra resources the fork will end up bringing to the project Sep 19 05:00:51 not shared code, just differing distributions Sep 19 05:00:54 they have started with OE/OM and i expect that will continue for some time Sep 19 05:01:04 rwhitby decide what? Sep 19 05:01:14 yes, it's a stretch to imagine that OM will abandon OE Sep 19 05:01:24 * cesarb notices everyone has been talking past the other in the last screenful or two Sep 19 05:01:41 * ferric notes that this is an argument without an end :) Sep 19 05:02:35 grrr, somebody broke the build again Sep 19 05:02:42 cesarb mentions an important point: extra resources brought to bear *because* of this. Consider that apparently somebody has already figured out the GSM modem enough to make it work reliably on first boot, something that we *still* don't have in OM after weeks and weeks... Sep 19 05:02:43 roh: one possibility (however unlikely) is that the CEO of OpenMoko Inc. could decide to refocus his company on using Qtopia as the software distribution on which to base the OpenMoko open mobile communications revolution. Sep 19 05:02:46 just more than one day a week i'd like to be able to build :P Sep 19 05:02:52 bluez is the culprit this time Sep 19 05:03:22 rtyler: pastebin a log Sep 19 05:03:27 rwhitby: heh - that is wishful thinking :) Sep 19 05:03:30 roh: I'm not supporting or advocating any such decision for or against. I'm just wondering about the possibility, as I'm sure others are too. Sep 19 05:03:37 rwhitby whatfor? i see no reason to do so, only a limitation of future Sep 19 05:04:00 roh: don't get me wrong, I'm not advocating anything. Sep 19 05:04:14 rwhitby besides that there is absolutely no reason to only have one, or 2 usable userinterfaces Sep 19 05:04:16 mwester: I still think qtopia got it right completely by accident Sep 19 05:04:16 openmoko is continuing work on openmoko Sep 19 05:04:34 mwester: they happened to somehow avoid the bug, just by doing things completely different Sep 19 05:04:45 cesarb: :) Still, perhaps we can learn something! Is there the equivalent of a gsmd? Sep 19 05:04:51 mwester: http://pastebin.com/m26d1d9ca Sep 19 05:05:02 cesarb: what did they get right? (sorry, i stepping to the middle of this one) Sep 19 05:05:06 it wasnt by accident ... Sep 19 05:05:16 I notice that they avoid the kernel lockup problem by just never swithing the GSM modem off once it is turned on :) Sep 19 05:05:20 hey! ljp! Sep 19 05:05:23 ferric: their gsmd works. on every boot. without black voodoo. Sep 19 05:05:31 ljp: don't you actually work for trolltech? Sep 19 05:05:39 cesarb: oh sweet Sep 19 05:05:43 cesarb: they dont actually have gsmd Sep 19 05:05:45 ferric: (ok, I don't know if it's actually a gsmd or something different, but people have said it works) Sep 19 05:05:48 yes, i a mthe one doing th eneo port Sep 19 05:05:49 their arch is fairly different actually Sep 19 05:05:51 well, that would make sense considering they've done it for the greenphone Sep 19 05:05:53 * cesarb didn't flash it yet Sep 19 05:06:23 ljp: did you have trouble in the beginning getting the gsm modem to start up and stay up with qpe? Sep 19 05:06:27 qtopia doesnt use gsmd Sep 19 05:06:36 ljp: by accident I mean, you didn't set out to "let's fix the gsm stuff"; you just tried it on qtopia's scheme, and it worked Sep 19 05:06:38 the source to qpe isn't available, is it? Sep 19 05:06:42 rwhitby we surely find it great that now even trolltech supports our hardware. free software is about pluralism, about choise Sep 19 05:06:44 ferric: yes Sep 19 05:06:50 no, we already had a vondor plugin for another TI modem that worked fairly good Sep 19 05:06:51 ferric: source and sdk is for download aleady Sep 19 05:06:54 cw666: yes it's available? Sep 19 05:06:56 oh nice! Sep 19 05:07:03 but most of the gsm stuff is simply standard gsm Sep 19 05:07:05 ftp.trolltech.com/i/forget/where Sep 19 05:07:06 ljp: yeah, I was unclear, by gsmd I meant whatever qtopia uses as the gsm "daemon" Sep 19 05:07:11 cw666: i'll find it, thx Sep 19 05:07:13 roh: fully agree - from the FIC hardware point of view it's a great coup Sep 19 05:07:38 ljp: well, gsmd talks standard gsm... when the modem decides to answer (it's doing something wrong, and we don't know what it is) Sep 19 05:07:51 personally, i think qt should get out of the hardware business and keep writing great gui toolkits :) Sep 19 05:08:14 ljp: what do you mean by 'vendor plugin'? Sep 19 05:08:18 ferric: they aren't really in the hardware business Sep 19 05:08:18 roh: from the openmoko software distribution point of view, it could be seen as a dilution of community developer interest, or as an increase in developer community for the hardware (and corresponding shared code) Sep 19 05:08:27 cesarb: gsmd is pretty borked conceptually Sep 19 05:08:35 cw666: yes, the green phone was more of an experiment, i guess Sep 19 05:08:41 * cesarb goes to his 6-tab konsole window to get the url for cw666, just to notice it isn't there because of the power loss earlier this night. aaaarrrrggghhh! Sep 19 05:08:47 rwhitby well, i see it as a credit we get from trolltech. even if i personally am not a fan of qt (personal thing, nothing to do with the company, i just don't like c++ ;) Sep 19 05:08:55 rwhitby: kde coming after gnome wasn't a dilution, the market just became bigger Sep 19 05:09:14 roh: is gtk+ written in c? Sep 19 05:09:17 vendor plugin is a vendor (modem) specific calls for Qtopia, most standard GSM calls are in libqtopiaphone Sep 19 05:09:31 besides that: now we can finally get rid of all that qt vs gtk discussion and just have both. everybody can choose how he likes better Sep 19 05:09:36 Writchie: what do you mean, borked conceptually? Sep 19 05:09:49 ferric japp. Sep 19 05:09:55 hm Sep 19 05:10:26 ecloud: the free for all of every application using libgsm at the same time Sep 19 05:10:30 rwhitby: what is your personal preference? Sep 19 05:10:35 ljp: ah Sep 19 05:10:39 also that means the hardware and the kernel-api gets more usage from different code which means more testing and in the end better code quality / saner apis Sep 19 05:10:40 the lack of mux in the design from day one Sep 19 05:10:40 ljp: is the plugin gpl'd? Sep 19 05:10:48 yes Sep 19 05:10:56 ferric: for me, a GUI is simply a means of using multiple shell windows Sep 19 05:11:09 rwhitby: :) Sep 19 05:11:16 rwhitby: it doesn't have to be pretty? Sep 19 05:11:25 I usually use Linux through a PuTTY session running emacs on the linux server. Sep 19 05:11:45 while harald had some good things in mind libgsmd/gsmd were just hacked ad-hoc into what they are today Sep 19 05:11:50 (indeed, that is how I do all my linux development for NSLU2, OpenWrt, OE, OM, ...) Sep 19 05:11:53 pretty no, but usable yes ... a bash shell isn't really ideal for a phone anymore than you would drive a car with a bash prompt Sep 19 05:12:26 rwhitby: you ....use ....windows?!!~ Sep 19 05:12:27 ferric: so for me, GTK vs QT for a phone UI is an irrelevant question. show me the applications. Sep 19 05:12:42 ferric: I use all sorts of operating systems. Sep 19 05:12:42 cw666: but it's ideal for bashing things into shape when the configuration is broken (sorry, couldn't help it - bad pun) Sep 19 05:12:44 cw666: agreed Sep 19 05:13:03 cesarb: for a desktop yes, for a phone no Sep 19 05:13:17 * ferric is excited about this news though Sep 19 05:13:34 what was that about gsmd being broked conceptually? Sep 19 05:14:48 Writchie: by mux you mean GPRS and voice at the same time? Sep 19 05:15:03 ecloud: its more than that Sep 19 05:15:59 gsm handles data, fax, alternating voice data/ gprs sessions with multiple profiles, SMS, EME, etc. second calls, calls on hold, call by call diversion, etc. a lot of things Sep 19 05:16:15 Writchie: you think gsmd is badly architected? Sep 19 05:16:20 ljp what i really need to give trolltech credits for is gpl-ing the remaining closed components (i got that right?) Sep 19 05:16:25 big state machine eh? Sep 19 05:16:27 ferric: it was not really architected. Sep 19 05:16:36 roh: yes. thanks Sep 19 05:16:37 Writchie: it just... grew? Sep 19 05:16:42 harald didn't have sufficient time to do it Sep 19 05:16:51 ah Sep 19 05:16:59 well, that's ok, it'll get rewritten in due time Sep 19 05:17:03 its a big job and he has much more important things to do Sep 19 05:17:08 perhaps the new qtopia code can be reused Sep 19 05:17:26 ferric: not for a lgpl version Sep 19 05:17:26 Writchie: do you understand the muxing of gprs with other stuff btw? Sep 19 05:17:32 Writchie: sigh. the phone part of the first free phone would be important, don't you think? Sep 19 05:17:38 cw666: yes Sep 19 05:18:13 Writchie: it's not clear (to me) when tx/rx gprs (ppp) frames how you mux with the other data? Sep 19 05:18:30 Writchie: is it escape or is it something more sublte like high-bit-set with a ppp escape map or something? Sep 19 05:18:51 s/escape/escaped/ Sep 19 05:18:51 cw666 meant: Writchie: is it escaped or is it something more sublte like high-bit-set with a ppp escape map or something? Sep 19 05:18:57 * cw666 kisses apt Sep 19 05:18:58 cw666: the gsm 7.10 mux is just a protocol with multiple DLC's Sep 19 05:19:11 it uses HDLC frames Sep 19 05:19:19 each address is essentially a different port. Sep 19 05:19:22 Writchie: for everything? Sep 19 05:19:26 you create as many as you need. Sep 19 05:19:36 openembedded-essential does not depend on help2man, which is required Sep 19 05:19:38 Writchie: so talking AT commands goes to another DLC? Sep 19 05:19:47 yup Sep 19 05:19:58 Writchie: can you get at the raw gsm voice data like that too> Sep 19 05:19:58 each command stream is transported. Sep 19 05:20:05 s/>/?/ Sep 19 05:20:05 cw666 meant: Writchie: can you get at the raw gsm voice data like that too? Sep 19 05:20:11 similar to bluetooth with uses the same protocol in a different mode Sep 19 05:20:19 cw666: on some devices yes Sep 19 05:20:25 not the caylpso Sep 19 05:20:36 oh :-( Sep 19 05:20:38 ljp i think its great that even when there are different companys and userinterfaces involved, the message can be, that free software is the direction for linux phones, and not closed planets with signed binarys only. Sep 19 05:20:52 ecloud: you should report that in the openembedded bugtracker Sep 19 05:21:08 roh: sooner or later m$ will notice (well, im sure they have already) Sep 19 05:21:26 if any of the open phones do well m$ will probably start the FUD machine Sep 19 05:21:43 or lobby congress to outlaw them to avoid terrorist or some silly thing Sep 19 05:22:29 cw666: the handset market is a billion devices Sep 19 05:22:30 roh: agreed Sep 19 05:22:32 cw666 i think a big chunk of the smartphones sold in asia are linux. (mostly not free/open) the other 2 players are symbian and windows ce. Sep 19 05:22:39 it will be a long time before M$ notices Sep 19 05:22:44 roh: a lot are yes, but not open Sep 19 05:22:49 open is the issue Sep 19 05:22:51 roh: so is 'OpenMoko' a collective term for software distributions which support the open mobile software revolution, or is it the one OE-based software distribution? I need to know, in case I want to add support for building a Qtopia-based image in a Makefile, whether it should be part of the existing MokoMakefile, or a new separate Makefile? Sep 19 05:23:03 rwhitby: doing that Sep 19 05:23:08 because right now handsets are done with a lot of lockin and telcos use that to extort from end-users Sep 19 05:23:13 open hardware can undermine that Sep 19 05:23:46 rwhitby: i think there are terms on the wiki Sep 19 05:23:57 i think its tied to NEO hardware Sep 19 05:24:10 rwhitby openmoko is a trademark which stands for free software as we understand it. Sep 19 05:24:28 roh: be careful - Sep 19 05:24:44 rwhitby we have written down a policy for that.. ;) Sep 19 05:24:46 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Trademark_Policy Sep 19 05:25:27 any commercial use would seem to apply to tt Sep 19 05:26:11 roh: thx, that explains it. If the software doesn't come from OpenMoko, Inc. then it doesn't come under an "OpenMoko" umbrella. Sep 19 05:26:27 "The calling of any software or product by the name OpenMoko (or another related Trademark), unless that software or product is a substantially unmodified OpenMoko product." Sep 19 05:26:38 (Unlikely to get trademark approval) Sep 19 05:26:48 Writchie depends. if you want to sell something you have to ask. Sep 19 05:27:08 well there is certainly "commercial intent" behing TT Sep 19 05:27:17 s/behing/behind/ Sep 19 05:27:19 Writchie meant: well there is certainly "commercial intent" behind TT Sep 19 05:28:09 IMHO, there are problems with the way openmoko.org is tied to the commercial entities Sep 19 05:28:11 TT doesnt call it openmoko Sep 19 05:28:28 rwhitby i think if there is a nice way to build a qtopia image from our oe tree without making it overly complicated, it would be fine. i just wouldn't name it openmoko-* Sep 19 05:28:51 roh: there is an oe overlay in the qtopia sources for the neo Sep 19 05:28:52 rwhitby but you can call it qtopia-neo1973 i think. Sep 19 05:29:20 someone stated that the distribution is also named OpenMoko Sep 19 05:29:40 ljp hm.. we just got rid of the overlay... do you think it would make sense to merge that in? (presumed the maintainers are of with that) ? Sep 19 05:29:54 so the new QPE is LGPL'd like QT? Sep 19 05:30:12 ferric gpl, not lgpl Sep 19 05:30:12 ferric: isn't Qt GPL, not LGPL? Sep 19 05:30:17 ferric: QT is not LGPL'd Sep 19 05:30:32 wow everyone answered at the same time :P Sep 19 05:30:44 oe wont because it makes qtopia in on ebig ipkg Sep 19 05:31:18 basically it just means, that if tomtom would want to sell a binary and a transflash with map data, they would need to pay money to trolltech or use the lgpl gui Sep 19 05:31:46 ah Sep 19 05:31:52 so, er, stuff is changing to qt? Sep 19 05:31:58 lol Sep 19 05:32:00 yes Sep 19 05:32:01 nope Sep 19 05:32:02 lol Sep 19 05:32:20 ah! now I understand! :( Sep 19 05:32:24 :o Sep 19 05:32:40 if QPE is GPL'd ... you don't need to pay trolltech if you use it in a commercial product, as long as you release your source, right? Sep 19 05:33:03 ferric: as long as you release your source _with a GPL-compatible license_ Sep 19 05:33:09 right Sep 19 05:33:18 and if you don't want to, then you pay TT Sep 19 05:33:20 fair enough. Sep 19 05:33:27 ferric: or rather, with a license compatible with the specific GPL version Qt uses, whichever it is Sep 19 05:33:34 ferric yes. but sometimes thats impossible if you need to use 3rd party components or have the wrong nda ;) Sep 19 05:33:53 roh: then you pay tt and keep it closed, yes? Sep 19 05:34:02 roh: is modem event selection possible with current firmware? Sep 19 05:34:17 cesarb: ah Sep 19 05:34:22 ferric either that, or you limit yourself to lgpl linking which allows binarys, and don't use qt Sep 19 05:34:46 ferric: if you want closed qtopia/qt you need to pay them money (it's not much though) Sep 19 05:34:52 cw666 i dunno exactly. you mean things like cellbroadcast? Sep 19 05:35:03 ERROR: Build of /home/rutledge/moko/openembedded/packages/gmp/gmp-native_4.2.1.bb do_configure failed Sep 19 05:35:09 configure: error: Oops, mp_limb_t is 32 bits, but the assembler code Sep 19 05:35:14 in this configuration expects 64 bits. Sep 19 05:35:26 roh: potentially those if there are a lot, anything unsolicitied other than RING was the thought Sep 19 05:35:28 but I'm using i386 debian Sep 19 05:35:33 cw666: not much... as long as trolltech is still around, and didn't one night wake up in the wrong side of the bed and increases the prices... Sep 19 05:36:07 cesarb: if you're commercially selling software you have a contract with them that offers you some protection from worst-case situations probably Sep 19 05:36:16 ecloud: I'm a bit late in the conversation, but I've been building on gentoo ~amd64 since early this year Sep 19 05:36:32 cw666: dunno, I never looked at their contract Sep 19 05:36:40 cesarb: it's not their contract, it's any contract Sep 19 05:36:44 CM: never yet managed to build an image Sep 19 05:36:44 cw666 i think there must be a command for that.. that is also needed to keep the unwanted events quiet when the app cpu sleeps. else the phone would wake up every few seconds Sep 19 05:36:49 cesarb: you dont get into something open-ended like that Sep 19 05:37:03 roh: yes, that's exactly the reason i ask Sep 19 05:37:16 so I'm trying chroot Debian Sep 19 05:37:19 roh: also, i think you need to poke the CTS in sleep mode? Sep 19 05:37:25 ecloud: I had a bad week when there was lots of trouble, but beside of that I've built the rootfs almost every day Sep 19 05:37:31 roh: when going to sleep i should say Sep 19 05:37:37 what's your secret? Sep 19 05:38:02 roh: do you know status of suspend - is anyone working on it yet? Sep 19 05:38:18 cw666 the modem should wake up the arm via irq as soon as the flowcontrol signals the arm is not accepting data Sep 19 05:38:42 roh: right, but the uart might not poke CTS correctly on sleep, so it might have to be done as part of the sleep/resume code Sep 19 05:38:52 ecloud: I'll do a new update, setup, openmoko-image now and see if I get any problems Sep 19 05:38:56 Writchie which suspend? the suspend to ram and back is working pretty well for me arm. i've not tried that with the modem yet Sep 19 05:39:33 roh: usb? gadget? serial? Sep 19 05:39:38 or just fb? Sep 19 05:40:06 Writchie ? Sep 19 05:40:14 roh: when you STR you can get the modem to wake you? Sep 19 05:40:35 CM: OK; I restarted mine again FWIW... wife will be home in a few minutes but I'll be back after a while Sep 19 05:40:48 cw666 as i said.. i did not test that yet. also gsmd has no provisions for gettint that kind of event yet. Sep 19 05:41:46 roh: suspend/resume - just wanted to know how much of it is working - usb? gadget driver? serial ports? Sep 19 05:41:58 roh: w/o gsmd you can test it Sep 19 05:42:07 roh: just kill gsmd and call the phone Sep 19 05:42:25 if you have enough RINGs in the fifo's uart and you dont read the data you're see an interrupt come in Sep 19 05:42:36 roh: wakeup maybe different in mux/non-mux modes Sep 19 05:42:37 roh: presumably then if you sleep and do it again it should wake for you? Sep 19 05:43:04 Writchie: i assume in mux mode there is potentially a dribble of packets all the time? Sep 19 05:43:26 if mux wakeup is implemented correctly, any data should should result in continuous flags until host resumes Sep 19 05:44:05 implemented correctly on ti side that is Sep 19 05:44:18 Writchie ive not seen anything not come up again from suspend, so its pretty much working. there is some issue with the audio amp not beeing suspended cleanly but the rest seems to be working Sep 19 05:44:22 ecloud: I got the bluez error too. I know koen updated the bluez libs last evening, and there were more errors from the start. XorA|gone fixed one with bluez-utils Sep 19 05:44:34 roh: good news Sep 19 05:45:08 Writchie: off the top of your head do you know how to get the modem into mux mode? Sep 19 05:45:26 AT+CMUX Sep 19 05:45:27 nm Sep 19 05:45:31 AT+CMUX - but then you need to negotiate within the protocol Sep 19 05:45:37 yeah Sep 19 05:45:47 is there userspace test code for that? Sep 19 05:45:57 my guess is somewhere there probably is Sep 19 05:45:58 i will have some soon Sep 19 05:46:20 I wasn't the one with bluez problems - didn't get that far yet Sep 19 05:46:21 Writchie: once that's done i guess we probably need to poke the in-kernel lice discipline Sep 19 05:46:21 ERROR: '/home/rutledge/moko/openembedded/packages/gmp/gmp-native_4.2.1.bb' failed Sep 19 05:46:25 shorter than an openmoko soon ;) Sep 19 05:47:02 cw666: the in-kernel line discipline (which last i looked was unfinished) is one of two approaches with different fans Sep 19 05:47:04 Writchie: is that your patch attached to the 'mux bug' then? from some weeks back? Sep 19 05:47:15 cw666: not my patch Sep 19 05:47:46 Writchie: if it's not partly in-kernel then to get gprs working we'll have to inject the gprs frames from userspace using tun/tao Sep 19 05:47:53 somebody did offer some patch gsm mux code i think that was rejected - "gsm port concept" i think Sep 19 05:47:55 so i think if possible it makes sense to do it there Sep 19 05:48:31 ecloud: When the native builds fail it can be some error when it links in to your local libraries. I've never had that error though, and the bluez error was just to remove the offending conffile from the bb file Sep 19 05:48:48 cw666: harald's original plan is/was to handle the grps for ip only on a global basis Sep 19 05:49:14 Writchie: im not sure i follow Sep 19 05:49:31 configure: error: Oops, mp_limb_t is 32 bits, but the assembler code in this configuration expects 64 bits. Sep 19 05:49:41 (after this line: checking size of mp_limb_t... 4) Sep 19 05:49:43 harald was opposed to exporting pty's for use by fax, pppd, etc. Sep 19 05:50:00 why would it expect some presumably int-like thing to be 64 bits? Sep 19 05:50:06 and bt Sep 19 05:50:26 ecloud: Are you building in a 64-bit environment or in the chroot? Sep 19 05:50:57 You appear to have set $CFLAGS, perhaps you also need to tell GMP the Sep 19 05:51:01 intended ABI, see "ABI and ISA" in the manual. Sep 19 05:51:07 Writchie: that seems a bit limited though Sep 19 05:51:07 This is in the chroot Sep 19 05:51:24 NOTE: build 200709190741: completed Sep 19 05:51:30 well, not limited, but painful to use Sep 19 05:51:33 roh: how long did you resume take? Sep 19 05:51:53 Writchie less than 2 seconds. rather about one Sep 19 05:52:06 Writchie just press the power button 2 seconds and choose lock. then it suspends Sep 19 05:52:06 hmmm; wonder whats taking so long? Sep 19 05:52:13 roh: that long? the cpu takes that long or the backlight? Sep 19 05:52:21 i expected <100ms Sep 19 05:52:23 Writchie it needs to completely reboot the whole hardware. Sep 19 05:52:42 the cpu is off. only the ram is held in self-refresh Sep 19 05:52:45 roh: then that's not suspend/resume Sep 19 05:52:55 thats suspend to ram Sep 19 05:53:06 it is STR Sep 19 05:53:15 STR does basically that, drops almost all hw and the CPU Sep 19 05:53:18 on desktops too Sep 19 05:53:21 resume from suspend to ram should only restart each driver at its resume call? Sep 19 05:53:34 yes, but that can be slow Sep 19 05:53:40 some hw needs some effort to poke it awake Sep 19 05:53:48 the rest of the hardware is off, that includes the whole lcm, audio hardware, good parts of the power subsystem and nearly all linux drivers used Sep 19 05:53:50 that said, 2s seems like a long time Sep 19 05:54:04 I get ".../bluez-utils_3.19.bb' failed" with a current build Sep 19 05:54:17 ecloud: Here's my info if you want to compare http://rafb.net/p/49Oq8T51.html Sep 19 05:54:26 roh: how are you putting it to sleep? Sep 19 05:54:28 cw666 its more about one second. but its also not optimized or even profiled yet. just hacked down Sep 19 05:54:29 Syk1: The line 22 in bluez-utils_3.19.bb needs to have the second half removed since the rfcomm config file is no longer there Sep 19 05:54:31 roh: not counting usb which is not working atm, OLPC resumes is reported to resume in 160ms Sep 19 05:54:50 cw666 press power for 2 seconds and then 'lock' on the onscreen menue which pops up Sep 19 05:54:57 roh: one second is not bad for a start Sep 19 05:54:58 roh: doing some wakeups async would make sense long term Sep 19 05:55:08 like usb which can be slow and may not be useful Sep 19 05:55:31 last time i checked i had it plugged to usb, so it even enumerated in that time i think Sep 19 05:55:49 yeah, that's going to delay things more than an incoming call in reality will Sep 19 05:56:20 plus, we can cheat and do somethings like usb and audio async or deferred the work for them if need be Sep 19 05:56:34 roh: how new a kernel? Sep 19 05:56:51 cw666 eh.. we'll need audio to signal the ringing ;) Sep 19 05:57:17 recent kernel. 2.6.22.something.. i need to boot it to take a look. currently waiting for my build to complete Sep 19 05:57:21 roh: right, but we need to get the CPU up and reading the uart first Sep 19 05:57:27 3128 of 4823 Sep 19 05:57:34 roh: so a 50ms delay (prob less) there wont hurt Sep 19 05:57:44 roh: mine is borked on blueZ - missing rfcomm.conf file Sep 19 05:58:40 Writchie: Just remove that part on line 22 in bluez-utils_3.19.bb Sep 19 05:58:55 CM: yeah Sep 19 05:59:01 Then it at least goes through Sep 19 05:59:05 but why does this stuff keep happening Sep 19 05:59:08 Writchie: so how does one deactivate the muxer mode? frob the gsm at power/up down? Sep 19 05:59:31 Writchie: I think it's because there's just OE, and no testing/stable split Sep 19 05:59:32 cw666: the chip remains in mux mode Sep 19 05:59:43 Writchie: there is no way to kick it out? Sep 19 06:00:03 cw666: you can end the mux mode anytime - but you normally do not want to Sep 19 06:00:04 Is there any OpenMoko GPS news / what's the status on it? Sep 19 06:00:31 cw666: the protocol has a link suspend and wakeup Sep 19 06:00:37 s/gps/ Sep 19 06:00:50 which should work without loosing any data from the upper layers Sep 19 06:00:50 Writchie: oh, really i do, im using cat & echo to talk to the modem at this moment in time :-) Sep 19 06:01:05 paulproteus: Still that mickey|zzZZzz has the eabi version of gllin but isn't able to distribute it Sep 19 06:01:15 cw666: you'r not in RL Sep 19 06:01:17 CM, Ah-hah, okay. Sep 19 06:01:51 one thing ive not heard people talk about is using the paragraph calligrapher handwriting recognition dlls from wince Sep 19 06:01:59 with a hacked up PE loader Sep 19 06:02:04 cw666: the mux is designed so that you normally set up a mux channel just for the unsoliciited events. Sep 19 06:02:22 you handle these on one channel Sep 19 06:02:32 then you handle voice calls on another channel Sep 19 06:02:38 fax/data etc. on another Sep 19 06:02:45 gprs on another etc. Sep 19 06:02:50 Writchie: yeah, i realize ideally is what would be done Sep 19 06:03:00 Writchie: btw, is fax supported? Sep 19 06:03:08 i looked on the wiki and found nothing Sep 19 06:03:30 right now you can just fax on the main channel if you wanted Sep 19 06:03:51 i never tried, i guess building efax wouldnt be hard Sep 19 06:03:59 ideally, fax should be on a pty as should gprs Sep 19 06:04:02 im not sure how useful it would be though Sep 19 06:04:20 Writchie: incoming faxes on the main channel have a different 'RING' then? Sep 19 06:04:43 cw666: if you set it up right yes Sep 19 06:04:49 call types are indicated Sep 19 06:04:58 and diversion are different by call type Sep 19 06:05:55 if you get an incoming fax call and you have fax called diverted to you fax mailbox then you still get option to send busy on the call - at least on some phones Sep 19 06:06:08 cw666: there are hundreds of corner cases in GSM Sep 19 06:07:55 it wounds horrible :-) Sep 19 06:07:59 cw666: not all mux's work the same way, some use dedicated channels for different functions. NEO mux is pretty standard Sep 19 06:08:36 cw666: it's not horrible - but its complex - which is why it needs to be designed and thought through. Sep 19 06:08:40 Writchie: im reading over bits of 07.10 ... ive not found how you negotiate the purpose of each DLC Sep 19 06:08:59 cw666: spec assume all DLC have all capabilities Sep 19 06:09:41 cw666: some implementations dedicate specific DLC's to specific functions Sep 19 06:10:52 there is a compatibility layer above the mux that relates mostly to modem controls and whether data is real-time (like PCM voice) Sep 19 06:11:41 that's in the spec? Sep 19 06:11:50 cw666: yes Sep 19 06:13:10 cw666: convergence layer Sep 19 06:13:25 Writchie: reading the .doc file here i realized it's corrupted and messed up Sep 19 06:13:41 Writchie: i need to rdesktop to a windows machine far far far away (at work) and convert it to pdf Sep 19 06:13:44 sec Sep 19 06:13:58 cw666: get the latest etsi version pdf Sep 19 06:14:09 V7.2.0 Sep 19 06:14:31 Writchie: ok, will do, i was just usinf the link from the wiki Sep 19 06:14:34 http://webapp.etsi.org/key/queryform.asp Sep 19 06:14:50 ts 101 369 Sep 19 06:20:44 Writchie: heh, finally got it Sep 19 06:23:19 Writchie: so you have some code working then? Sep 19 06:23:24 Writchie: to TX/RX HDLC frames? Sep 19 06:24:01 its not much for the mux itself Sep 19 06:24:39 i just meant test code Sep 19 06:24:51 to actually negotiate something and talk to the device Sep 19 06:25:07 it's more the framework for the pty's and d-bus Sep 19 06:25:48 pselect Sep 19 06:26:11 but it does need a bit of test code to excercize it Sep 19 06:26:55 Writchie: so for gprs you'll just poke frames down a pty and let a line disc. deal? Sep 19 06:27:30 cw666: for now you can use pppd almost unchanged Sep 19 06:28:23 there are lots of issues to work out about how and where the gprs session parameters are handled Sep 19 06:28:53 Writchie: sure, but if you just break it out to a whole lot of pty's now, it should just work as-is Sep 19 06:29:05 maybe multiple ppp sessions if the carrier allows it Sep 19 06:29:54 cw666: i'll be breaking out pty's on demand - connect to an existing one from BT for example, or create a new one for a device such as fax from the platform Sep 19 06:30:35 cw666: it can be kept so that it can work with a kernel mux, or oddball USB mux, or whatever. Sep 19 06:31:04 only difficult case is no mux Sep 19 06:33:34 night all Sep 19 06:34:47 CM: thanks Sep 19 06:52:27 hi Sep 19 06:52:42 hi zecke Sep 19 06:53:29 moin Sep 19 06:54:04 * Ralph in the office - still sleepy Sep 19 06:54:15 guten morgen Sep 19 06:54:27 * zecke is in a hostel in amsterdam Sep 19 06:55:21 gluten morgon! Sep 19 06:55:29 coffee über alles! Sep 19 06:55:30 do someone know how to find the bug# of that machbox-panel not appearing on the first start? Sep 19 06:55:35 Any OS X users awake? Sep 19 06:56:17 no OS X users are drinking too much coffee - beeing up to long Sep 19 06:56:20 :) Sep 19 06:56:32 i know - i know one :) Sep 19 06:57:02 Ralph: :P Sep 19 06:57:23 I was wondering if any of them had gotten 2007.2 loaded up Sep 19 06:59:26 I have the Mac DFU flasher, but haven't gotten much feedback on getting a 2007.2 image going ... I'm building a Debian box right now to actually get a development env and maybe a flasher going. Sep 19 07:14:29 good morning Sep 19 07:14:50 merning Sep 19 07:20:58 letting gentoo do an emerge -veN world overnight just in case Sep 19 07:22:43 ecloud|ZZZz: :) Sep 19 07:50:55 Can u-boot use usb CDC ethernet to connect to a host? Sep 19 07:53:02 that failing gsmd and not disappearing top-panel on startup seems to me as beeing a timing probem Sep 19 07:58:01 Maledictus nope. uboot does cdc acm console Sep 19 07:58:33 ok, so no way to use the tftp command from gta01? Sep 19 08:00:20 Maledictus you can use dfu to upload a image into ram Sep 19 08:01:11 hmm. ok. thanks Sep 19 08:03:16 who is working on that gsmd startup problem? Sep 19 08:07:58 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Community_nominees_for_GTA02_P0]] Sep 19 08:11:53 hmmm... I get a segfault when I run `make qemu` during the flashing portion: http://pastebin.ca/702978 Sep 19 08:14:15 mickey|openexpo: Just a quick note: I updated my Neo, put my patched gst-mad plugin on it and it works with pulsesink as desired - not sure where your problem lies atm, I can send you the library to test yourself whenever you have time Sep 19 08:15:13 YAY! I found the s3c2442 user's manual :D Sep 19 08:16:08 abraxa_: oh really? woot. Sep 19 08:16:18 abraxa_: any improvements in actual performance? Sep 19 08:16:52 mickey|openexpo: I'm making the media player build custom pipes atm, so I can tell you more when that's done ;) Sep 19 08:20:10 roh: are you sure the microsdhc is connected to the graphics accelerator? Sep 19 08:23:45 Maledictus yes. ive the schems Sep 19 08:36:19 abraxa_ - Hi, BTW! Sep 19 08:36:28 Heya Elrond :) Sep 19 08:36:30 abraxa_: ok, cool Sep 19 08:36:46 yo Elrond Sep 19 08:37:45 Hi mickey|openexpo! :) Sep 19 08:38:31 roh: I don't get what storage media has to do with graphics... Sep 19 08:39:32 well Sep 19 08:39:39 it's all about integration Sep 19 08:39:41 Maledictus that easy. we need the sdio port on the samsung soc for wifi Sep 19 08:40:04 ah, ok. there was no port left I suppose. Sep 19 08:40:33 well.. the smedia had one left Sep 19 08:41:08 That sounds like fun hackery. :) Sep 19 08:41:39 not really... that port is there for a reason. to connect sd media Sep 19 08:41:45 So to access the mmc, the soc has to talk to the smedia, which talks to the mmc? Sep 19 08:41:45 So, do I have to wait for the smedia docs before I can talk to the microsdhc or is it simply connected pass-through? Sep 19 08:42:02 Elrond kind of like that. Sep 19 08:43:15 So where's the SD controller in all this? on the smedia? Sep 19 08:44:22 Lynet_ yes. the one for the sd memory. the other one is connected to the ar6k Sep 19 08:45:59 goodmorning all Sep 19 08:47:29 Is there documentation on the smedia? wiki says TBD. Sep 19 08:47:47 Lynet_ when we've written it. Sep 19 08:48:39 Lynet_ http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2007-September/010175.html Sep 19 08:49:54 what does the kernel want to say with '<4>JFFS2 warning: (1153) jffs2_sum_write_sumnode: Not enough space for summary, padsize = -18'? Sep 19 08:50:02 I'm actually sooo happy that there will be docs :D Sep 19 08:50:15 is this earnest? (16% free space on the device btw) Sep 19 08:50:47 roh: Thx. Sep 19 08:50:59 yesterday I tried to boot from the SD card but got problems with mmcinit and ext2ls commands in u-boot... where can I look to see the reason? I don't have the error nor the phone here Sep 19 08:53:29 openmoko: 03mickey * r3009 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/libraries/moko-gtk-engine/ (src/sato-utils.h svn-commit.2.tmp svn-commit.tmp): moko-gtk-engine: remove bogus files Sep 19 09:22:56 nobody a hint for my kernel warning? Sep 19 09:24:04 when i use 'cu -l /dev/ttyACM0' i get a permission denied error. the neo is connected to usb and the /dev/ttyACM0 device is present. i'm root. any ideas? thanks Sep 19 09:24:39 ls -l /dev/ttyACM0 Sep 19 09:25:19 crw-rw---- 1 root dialout 166, 0 2007-09-19 11:23 /dev/ttyACM0 Sep 19 09:25:24 strace cu -l /dev/ttyACM0 for more clue Sep 19 09:25:29 kernel says: cdc_acm 2-2:1.0: ttyACM0: USB ACM device Sep 19 09:25:41 done that, just: open("/dev/ttyACM0", O_RDWR|O_NONBLOCK) = -1 EACCES (Permission denied) Sep 19 09:26:26 are you really root? Sep 19 09:26:42 yup: uid=0(root) gid=0(root) groups=0(root) Sep 19 09:26:59 i haven't upgrade my u-boot ever though. do i have to do anything on the neo? Sep 19 09:27:18 now i'm just starting it with aux+power with the usb cable inserted Sep 19 09:28:04 i just tried minicom, it works fine. sorry for the noise. still, weird that cu doesn't work Sep 19 09:28:15 ah Sep 19 09:28:30 does cu run as another user? Sep 19 09:28:41 dunno, don't use it personaly Sep 19 09:28:45 -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 141268 2007-02-17 18:20 /usr/bin/cu Sep 19 09:28:49 i use minicom Sep 19 09:28:59 normal debian etch install but now running debian testing Sep 19 09:30:23 strace cu -l /dev/ttyACM0 | grep euid Sep 19 09:30:31 do you get something? Sep 19 09:30:58 setreuid32(10, 10) = 0 Sep 19 09:31:03 sigh Sep 19 09:31:08 there you go Sep 19 09:31:40 cu uses user uucp by default, true? Sep 19 09:32:02 yes, uid 10 is uucp on debian Sep 19 09:32:25 that's the cause the wiki state to do a chown uucp:uucp /dev/tt.... Sep 19 09:32:39 :) Sep 19 09:33:05 heh. which wiki page? i'm just following the flashing moko page.. Sep 19 09:33:19 found it: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Bootloader Sep 19 09:34:11 jas4711: did you change permissions to uucp? Sep 19 09:34:20 as emdete said Sep 19 09:34:38 i've done so now, and it works fine. sorry for the noise.. Sep 19 09:34:43 thanks everyone Sep 19 09:45:00 openmoko: 03chris * r3010 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/libraries/libmokoui2/ (ChangeLog libmokoui/moko-finger-scroll.c): Sep 19 09:45:00 openmoko: * libmokoui/moko-finger-scroll.c: (moko_finger_scroll_refresh): Sep 19 09:45:00 openmoko: Take the border-width property of the container into account when Sep 19 09:45:00 openmoko: calculating if scroll-indicators should be visible Sep 19 09:50:46 re Sep 19 09:51:09 qtopia is out for the neo, eh? Sep 19 09:51:30 yes Sep 19 09:51:45 did you see a video by ScaredyCat? Sep 19 09:52:01 does that rely on its own gsmd (or alike) or on the one we have? Sep 19 09:52:01 zdanek: do you have a link? Sep 19 09:52:12 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YW5q8SpY7t4 Sep 19 09:52:16 hhf423: running here Sep 19 09:52:19 hhf423: it has all in its own Sep 19 09:52:28 one big blob, no components Sep 19 09:52:33 zdanek: you mean the videos here and the bottom? http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Qtopia_on_Neo_1973 Sep 19 09:52:49 oh, then its probably working? Sep 19 09:52:50 it's not bad... (almost) having a usable phone out of the box is nice Sep 19 09:52:52 I suppose that are the same Sep 19 09:53:23 yes, that are "these" videos Sep 19 09:53:28 my Neo died again. battery a bit too low. Sep 19 09:53:52 I hate these charger issues Sep 19 09:54:42 is someone also playing with webkit? Sep 19 09:55:05 so, now we have some competition, eh? openmoko vs qtopia Sep 19 09:55:46 bluelightning: so how do you like it. I need to wait for my Neo to trickle charge until I can try :-) Sep 19 09:56:10 the two platforms have a bit different approach Sep 19 09:56:28 it has to be admitted, its quite nice. Sep 19 09:56:30 guaqua: yes... openmoko goes the unix way ;) Sep 19 09:56:49 I hope scrolling speed and general responsiveness increases with the 3d excel chip Sep 19 09:57:10 jpcass: depends what you are looking at. if you look under the hood i like om by far better Sep 19 09:57:11 hhf423: it's OK... I have to say I kind of prefer the look of the OpenMoko UI, but themes are supported so I guess that can be changed Sep 19 09:57:29 ui is fairly responsive...phone features work well... Sep 19 09:57:48 emdete: dunno about that :) Sep 19 09:58:01 emdete: i proabably agree but yesterday my neo sat on my desk, today its in my pocket. Sep 19 09:58:03 the keyboard input is of an interesting design but behaves oddly here... I can't figure out what the heck it's doing sometimes Sep 19 09:58:15 I'm seeding the full version of ScaredyCat's videos btw: http://linuxtracker.org/download.php?id=4613&name=qt_on_neo1973_videos.torrent Sep 19 09:58:29 You mean the qtopia software is actually usable? Sep 19 09:58:33 Hibernation and all? Sep 19 09:58:46 it takes some getting used to - i like the way there are layers of action you can make on it. Sep 19 09:58:48 mmazur: It worked for ScaredyCat Sep 19 09:58:57 they say PM works, though I suspect that has a lot more to do with the kernel than anything else Sep 19 09:58:59 Hmm. Sep 19 09:59:07 jpcass: the neo wasnt meant for that ;) Sep 19 09:59:15 let me also seed Sep 19 09:59:17 s/neo/neo gta1/ Sep 19 09:59:19 emdete meant: jpcass: the neo gta1 wasnt meant for that ;) Sep 19 09:59:21 mmazur: actually that is where it falls down, hibernation often fails - power management is a big issue. Sep 19 09:59:37 Ok, so what's the current status of all this? Sep 19 09:59:40 i showed it to some friends in the pub last night they all want to get one ;-) Sep 19 09:59:50 Everybody abandoning openmoko and going for qtopia or what? Sep 19 09:59:59 jpcass: it doesn't look that way in a lot of the demo's Sep 19 10:00:31 mmazur: I doubt it... but I'm sure there will be adherents of both Sep 19 10:00:53 I haven't made up my mind yet, it's too early Sep 19 10:01:01 qtopia is not using X so its not as standards based or flexible... Sep 19 10:01:10 mmazur: the OM core team will continue to work on OM Sep 19 10:01:16 I do like how polished Qtopia is in terms of functionality, but I guess it has been developed for a lot longer Sep 19 10:01:27 i think there is room for both (and others even) Sep 19 10:01:42 you should be able to dual boot Sep 19 10:01:45 jpcass: that's a bit of a stretch... Sep 19 10:01:57 it does support other standards you know, it just chooses not to use X Sep 19 10:02:04 well, in the short term, qtopia will distract some peole from OM, but there will be more people interested Sep 19 10:02:21 mmazur: never... Sep 19 10:03:27 bluelightning: which standards do you talk about? Sep 19 10:03:39 it might increase the pressure on the OM team to get their stuff working Sep 19 10:04:07 emdete: all sorts... seems they are using / going to use syncml for one Sep 19 10:04:08 from what i see i dont think the OM team need more pressure. Sep 19 10:04:12 Yup. Sep 19 10:04:23 Considering their stuff kinda doesn't work, I'd say that's pressure enough :) Sep 19 10:04:28 also they are working a lot on kernel stuff which is anyway used by qtopia Sep 19 10:04:29 making the blanket statement that it "is not standards-based" goes too far IMO Sep 19 10:04:29 or people will just slowly trickle over to qtopia, of course except for those who don't like it. but everybody who is with OM just beceuase he has no choice now has a choice Sep 19 10:05:12 mmazur: there is still noone from OM working on gsmd. And thats broken since the beginning and should be prio one. Sep 19 10:05:53 god you guys need to get out more, Angstrom, gpe-phone-edition and some other distro not built from OE already ran on Neo so OM has never been the only choice Sep 19 10:05:53 hhf423: indeed... I'm an apps developer myself, what I need is a working and stable platform to build on, and right now that needs improvement in OM Sep 19 10:06:43 CM: can you repost the torrent link? I had to restart my irc client Sep 19 10:06:44 XorA: yes well most of those have not been as well publicised Sep 19 10:06:47 gsm didn't work in gpe-phone-edition Sep 19 10:07:29 hhf423: http://linuxtracker.org/download.php?id=4613&name=qt_on_neo1973_videos.torrent Sep 19 10:07:49 bluelightning: well Angstrom wasnt out of politness, but it wasnt hard to find Sep 19 10:08:39 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Neo1973:_GTA01Bv4_versus_GTA02_comparison]] [[IPhone]] [[User:ChrisLord]] [[Talk:Qtopia_on_Neo_1973]] [[User:Hhf423]] [[GTA02_Openness]] Sep 19 10:10:05 CM: downloading now, then sharing/seeding Sep 19 10:11:38 has anyone pointed ipkg on their neo to their own build packages? is it just a change in /etc/ipkg/... Sep 19 10:11:45 hmmm, unable to connect to tracker, crap Sep 19 10:11:48 openmoko: 03chris * r3011 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/libraries/libmokoui2/ (ChangeLog libmokoui/moko-hint-entry.c): Sep 19 10:11:48 openmoko: * libmokoui/moko-hint-entry.c: (update): Sep 19 10:11:48 openmoko: Don't clear entry when user-entered text matches hint text Sep 19 10:13:45 jpcass: export your build tree via a web server, and just point to the deploy dirs Sep 19 10:14:08 rwhitby: thanks Sep 19 10:14:37 jpcass: yes. you need to run `make build-package-package-index` Sep 19 10:33:01 hmm Sep 19 10:33:06 ~lart flakey networks Sep 19 10:33:06 * apt dumps 42 tons of dirt, manure, and fish heads on flakey networks Sep 19 10:35:23 chocolatey Sep 19 10:36:51 ahh, nowww Sep 19 10:37:20 mmmmmmmmm flakey goodness Sep 19 10:37:34 hmm Sep 19 10:37:38 google maps rocks on the Neo Sep 19 10:37:59 i've had problems with the top-level icon tray disappearing, typically when i select the gsm symbol and either 'power-up antenna' or 'auto-register network'. anyone else seen this? Sep 19 10:38:14 yes. everything that communicates w/ gsmd is a bit flaky Sep 19 10:38:17 yet Sep 19 10:38:34 and when gsmd fails, the whole of matchbox-panel goes down with it Sep 19 10:39:21 aha ok. Sep 19 10:39:42 Harrr! Talk like a pirate! Sep 19 10:39:52 19th of september Sep 19 10:39:55 talk like a pirate day Sep 19 10:40:27 mickey|openexpo: which browser are you using? Sep 19 10:40:39 hhf423: openmoko-browser2 :D Sep 19 10:40:50 * raster smells bsmd/libgsm buggzz0rs Sep 19 10:40:52 http://scap.linuxtogo.org/files/2c059c58e8bbecc1d23b3644765e5b3b.png Sep 19 10:40:55 haha Sep 19 10:41:00 bsmd Sep 19 10:41:05 almost bdsmd Sep 19 10:41:38 mickey|openexpo: since when is that there? in the sep17 build? Sep 19 10:41:49 nah Sep 19 10:42:01 zecke compiled the first version when he was @ my place Sep 19 10:42:09 this is brand new stuff Sep 19 10:42:18 i'm building it on buildhost atm. Sep 19 10:42:24 ah, then I'll go and flash qtopia Sep 19 10:42:30 right Sep 19 10:43:04 hhf423: no browser in qtopia release... Sep 19 10:43:55 jpcass: no worries. but I can make phone calls! Sep 19 10:44:52 can't find a media player either - is there one? Sep 19 10:45:04 mickey|openexpo: say, any news on GPS? Sep 19 10:45:06 phone calls are overrated Sep 19 10:45:12 has anyone built the qtopia stuff for neo for themselves, or is everyone using their binary firmware? Sep 19 10:45:29 mickey|openexpo: yes, I think we get that Sep 19 10:45:30 hhf423: no. the eabi-gllin i have doesn't work Sep 19 10:46:24 well, it's not that i wouldn't like to have phone calls working. but it's not my task, so complaining to me doesn't help Sep 19 10:46:29 openmoko: 03thomas * r3012 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/libraries/moko-gtk-engine/ (9 files in 3 dirs): (log message trimmed) Sep 19 10:46:29 openmoko: * moko-gtk-engine/src/moko-draw.c: Sep 19 10:46:29 openmoko: - Adjust gradient stops to give glossed appearance. Sep 19 10:46:29 openmoko: - Add gradient to "inactive" tabs Sep 19 10:46:29 openmoko: * moko-gtk-engine/src/moko-utils.h: rename from sato-utils.h Sep 19 10:46:30 *shrug* Sep 19 10:46:30 jas4711: just the binary, Im too busy trying to understand openembedded to look at another one! Sep 19 10:46:31 openmoko: * moko-gtk-engine/data/openmoko-contacts Sep 19 10:46:35 openmoko: * moko-gtk-engine/data/openmoko-panel-plugins Sep 19 10:46:58 mickey|openexpo: are you presenting at this conference? Sep 19 10:47:03 XorA: yes Sep 19 10:47:14 we have a booth Sep 19 10:47:18 and i'm giving a talk tomorrow Sep 19 10:47:21 mickey|openexpo: cool Sep 19 10:47:38 openmoko is evolving fast, usually I get "complaining to me does not help" only when a company reaches 300 employees Sep 19 10:48:02 * CM awaits some big annoncements Sep 19 10:48:02 sorry, but this keeps being frustrating Sep 19 10:48:07 well Sep 19 10:48:13 the only thing you will get is me leaving this channel Sep 19 10:48:31 CM: your expecting an announcement soon? Sep 19 10:48:52 wibbit: I think mickey|openexpo might have something to say tomorrow :) Sep 19 10:49:00 oooo Sep 19 10:49:05 CM: nothing new Sep 19 10:49:06 sorry Sep 19 10:49:07 * CM think there's a bit too much whining in this channel some times Sep 19 10:49:12 Aww.. I was just hoping! Sep 19 10:49:17 poeple seem to forget OM employees are spread over the globe and in different timezones, so its not like mickey|openexpo can just shout across the room to another dev to ask hows its going Sep 19 10:49:22 What about the video driver stuff? Sep 19 10:49:26 mickey|openexpo: darn Sep 19 10:49:29 Still secret? Sep 19 10:49:35 well Sep 19 10:50:42 XorA: hahaha, are you bloody joking? I work in exactly the same environment, spanning about 8 timezones. Thats what IRC and IM is good for. Sep 19 10:51:42 hhf423: no im not joking, people tend to whine at whatever OM employee happens to be logged in here, regardless of their area of expertise Sep 19 10:51:43 hhf423: IRC and IM does not account for, sleeeeeeeeeep Sep 19 10:52:00 wibbit: sleep is overrated Sep 19 10:52:20 CM: video driver stuff? Sep 19 10:52:35 XorA: yeah, we can probably be happy that OM employees do show up here Sep 19 10:53:03 hhf423: and the ones that arent here get passed info from the ones that are, so people complaints do get seen :-D Sep 19 10:53:52 jpcass: For the GTA02. Was refering to some earlier comment that was something like "Wait until you hear what guy we've hired to work on the gpu drivers!" :) Sep 19 10:54:14 CM: thats obvious, its Bill Gates Sep 19 10:54:21 XorA: :P Sep 19 10:54:28 GPU drivers in VB Sep 19 10:54:35 XorA: I get it. Be happy that anyone is still talking to you. If you're not happy, go to qtopia or sell your neo Sep 19 10:54:57 I agree with some earlier comment that a bi-weekly official status update mail or something would be great Sep 19 10:55:00 hhf423: or slightly ervise your expectations? Sep 19 10:55:06 s/ervise/revise/ Sep 19 10:55:06 jpcass meant: hhf423: or slightly revise your expectations? Sep 19 10:55:28 Doesn't have to be much, just a few lines mentioning what have been happening during the last two weeks and any major additions like web browser or mediaplayer Sep 19 10:55:41 hhf423: not really its just GSM problems are known and worked on, bugging some poor guy who is currently at a conference every half an hour wont fix those problems Sep 19 10:55:49 jpcass: yes, be happy that the gui is evolving, stop asking for gsmd Sep 19 10:56:00 But that's someting for someone like Sean or so, not the devs themselves. But I know there's always a lack of time... Sep 19 10:56:19 XorA: there is noone working on gsmd. Where did you get that somone is working on gsmd Sep 19 10:57:07 hhf423: no-one? it didnt grow itself into life you know Sep 19 10:57:57 XorA: is is very easy to see if somone is working on a OM component: the commitlogs. Around the hui a lot is happning. there is ca. nothing on gsmd Sep 19 10:58:30 XorA: if you look into the logs you can see that there was something happing start of august, but that was not an OM person Sep 19 10:59:42 hhf423: Id refer you back to posts on community about the size of OM and priorities Sep 19 11:03:37 you don'tthink gsm is a priority? Sep 19 11:04:00 ScaredyCat: personally I would rank working hardware as priotity 1 Sep 19 11:04:14 ScaredyCat: without that the software is worthless Sep 19 11:04:30 we have hardware Sep 19 11:04:55 ScaredyCat: but we all know GTA01 isnt the final revision Sep 19 11:05:01 * rwhitby decides to just ignore complaints and not feed the frustration by trying to argue with those who are frustrated. Sep 19 11:05:14 true, but it IS a supported revision Sep 19 11:05:23 agrees with rwhitby Sep 19 11:05:26 ScaredyCat: and this is an Open project, someone is free to fix up gsm anytime they like Sep 19 11:05:37 * CM too, as usually ;) Sep 19 11:05:38 ScaredyCat: I would if I had time outside of my job here Sep 19 11:05:39 roflmao Sep 19 11:06:12 ScaredyCat: :P Sep 19 11:06:37 Btw, should I add the torrent links to the full videos to the wiki? Sep 19 11:06:52 besides XorA... the gsm part of it isn't changing... is it? Sep 19 11:06:59 It's only me seeding now, but there's been maybe 4-5 downloads during the night Sep 19 11:07:04 :o Sep 19 11:07:12 I thought the tracker barfed Sep 19 11:07:30 if it's back I'll seed again Sep 19 11:07:42 * rwhitby wonders, since GTA01 was a developer release only, what major software developments are being totally stalled due to gsmd not working 100% reliably ... seems that developing applications is possible with gsmd as it is today with the matchbox session restart work-around. Sep 19 11:07:45 but yes, you can add ht elinks Sep 19 11:07:56 the links Sep 19 11:09:37 Done Sep 19 11:10:45 rwhitby: that's a pretty good summary :-) Sep 19 11:11:48 rwhitby: why is gsmd so buggy? Sep 19 11:11:58 just lack of love and attention/good coding? Sep 19 11:12:16 raster: basically Sep 19 11:12:37 raster: I would say that and strict "no dependencies" Sep 19 11:12:47 i.e. nothing but libc can be used Sep 19 11:13:00 * raster gets the "replace that bit of software" itch all of a sudden Sep 19 11:13:01 Is that for lgpl reasons or something else? Sep 19 11:13:11 it cant be hard to replace it Sep 19 11:13:24 just need some ipc handling Sep 19 11:13:28 and talk to a serial port Sep 19 11:13:32 and keep some minimal state Sep 19 11:13:36 raster: a d-bus version would be really really nice ;-) Sep 19 11:13:40 do some at command goop Sep 19 11:13:51 thos: i might consider that at some point Sep 19 11:14:06 but no time Sep 19 11:14:11 bigger fish to fry Sep 19 11:15:03 * dotmef kicks the BT tracker Sep 19 11:16:52 XorA: yeah, working gsm is a user feature. If the user wants it, the user writes it. Sep 19 11:18:17 rwhitby: you can not test stuff "on the run", you can not encounter all the quirks that one encounters when actually _using_ something, and not just playing with it Sep 19 11:18:48 \o/ Hotdogs! Sep 19 11:19:20 * CM brings some marshmallows Sep 19 11:19:35 * hhf423 has cookies to share Sep 19 11:19:53 :) Sep 19 11:20:55 hhf423: cookies! Sep 19 11:21:18 * CM thinks zash` is blue and hairy Sep 19 11:22:10 blue; no, hairy; kind of Sep 19 11:22:26 * hhf423 hands zash` a handful of cookies, them with chocolate coating Sep 19 11:22:33 yay! Sep 19 11:22:43 * zash` eats a cookie Sep 19 11:25:38 * hhf423 watches dfu-util flashing qtopia Sep 19 11:28:28 hey guys Sep 19 11:28:36 hhf423: do you have the matchbox session restart work-around in place? Sep 19 11:29:28 cause with that I'm getting gsmd stability throughout the day Sep 19 11:30:45 rwhitby: how does that work-around work, or where is it documented? Sep 19 11:31:11 * dotmef wonders why he used the awkward phrase of "work-around work" Sep 19 11:31:15 dotmef: I sent an email about it to openmoko-devel about a week ago I think. Sep 19 11:31:16 rwhitby: you mean stop/start gsmd in matchbox/session? Sep 19 11:31:20 hhf423: yes Sep 19 11:31:28 rwhitby: yes Sep 19 11:31:46 and your gsmd still regularly crashes? Sep 19 11:31:54 rwhitby: ah ok - I do that already. I actually just use a stop, because the dialer does its own stop & start Sep 19 11:34:44 rwhitby: yes, still too often to be called reliable Sep 19 11:35:38 ohh, qt tells me about six SMS that I have :-) Sep 19 11:37:53 wow, how slick is that Sep 19 11:39:07 hahaha, the screen lock is cool Sep 19 11:39:09 hhf423: well, it's the kinda thing you expect from a phone platform that's been in development for at least 4 years ;-) Sep 19 11:39:38 hhf423: be wary of changing the theme Sep 19 11:39:56 make qemu stops with http://dpaste.com/20073/, what can I do? Sep 19 11:40:40 apollo13: weird - never seen that one before. Sep 19 11:42:58 do need any infos about my sys? Sep 19 11:45:49 apollo13: I have no idea how to help you on that one, sorry, Sep 19 11:46:12 hmm, weird Sep 19 12:02:36 maybe time related, try to increase time to sleep Sep 19 12:04:16 Any_Key, how? Sep 19 12:04:34 in flash.sh Sep 19 12:04:39 ok thx Sep 19 12:09:11 it segfaults here: Sep 19 12:09:14 (sleep 20; kill $pid; sleep 1; kill -KILL $pid)& timer=$! Sep 19 12:09:14 if ! wait $pid; then Sep 19 12:09:14 kill $timer Sep 19 12:09:20 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[User:ChrisLord]] [[Qtopia_on_Neo_1973]] [[IPhone_%28GTA01%29]] Sep 19 12:09:28 I put sleep to 20 seconds Sep 19 12:09:33 instead of $2 Sep 19 12:10:12 line 88 is if ! wait $pid; then Sep 19 12:10:57 apollo13: removing the "nand createbbt" line from flash.sh seems to have fixed that crash for me... (and everything else seemed to work fine afterwards as well) Sep 19 12:12:44 ah thx :) Sep 19 12:15:23 Mek: thx, it's booting now :) Sep 19 12:31:10 so heres problem with my neo, it switches off if i restart the gsmd..! Sep 19 12:31:21 er..weird problem Sep 19 12:32:01 Sup3rkiddo: thats a new twist Sep 19 12:32:36 XorA, fyi, maybe i need to reflash the device with the latest images... Sep 19 12:32:45 * Sup3rkiddo is loving his fresh neo Sep 19 13:10:22 Sup3rkiddo: did you change the boot parameters? Sep 19 13:10:33 bug 788 Sep 19 13:10:39 hhf423, nope, i didnt... Sep 19 13:10:41 ombug 788 Sep 19 13:10:44 oh..jus a sec Sep 19 13:10:51 !ombug 788 Sep 19 13:11:14 change setenv bootargs_base to without the "console=ttySAC0,115200" , then saveenv Sep 19 13:11:36 you need to change that in uboot Sep 19 13:11:52 did you flash the .08 uboot from august 19? Sep 19 13:12:09 i never touched the uboot Sep 19 13:12:43 Sup3rkiddo: this upboot is considered safe and no manual nand erase magic is required: Sep 19 13:12:43 it still has the one flashed at the factory.. Sep 19 13:12:55 http://buildhost.openmoko.org/snapshots/2007.08/images/ Sep 19 13:13:09 hhf423, oh ok..cool Sep 19 13:13:22 but the thought of getting screwed..brrr. Sep 19 13:13:36 I really recommand that uboot and the bootargs change :-) Sep 19 13:13:52 bah.. Sep 19 13:13:59 * Sup3rkiddo has the debug board though Sep 19 13:14:29 Sup3rkiddo: yes, there is some risk left, although that ubott did get testing and I think a lot people here already flashed that without issues. Sep 19 13:14:49 ah, if you have the debug board, there is really no excuse :-) Sep 19 13:15:08 hhf423, the neo is just two days old..=) Sep 19 13:16:23 Sup3rkiddo: flash that stuff, do the bootargs change, then when you have flashed, change the matchbox/session like explained in "phase 1 software testing" and then make your first neo call to someone meaningful :-) Sep 19 13:16:40 hhf423, like my dog,...=) Sep 19 13:16:49 like, your mom :-) Sep 19 13:17:13 if a girlfried is not available Sep 19 13:17:13 :P, Sep 19 13:17:41 hhf423, gah, girlfriends? what are they?, thanks for the headsup man, Sep 19 13:17:57 sure Sep 19 13:19:18 wtf..? Sep 19 13:19:23 ..heya :) Sep 19 13:22:01 do someone know the name of the openmoko font? Sep 19 13:23:34 SansaSoft Sep 19 13:24:45 according to http://people.openmoko.org/sean/files/openmoko_trademark.pdf Sep 19 13:24:48 Morning all. Sep 19 13:24:51 ..am i allowed to comment on qtopia without getting beaten up =| Sep 19 13:24:58 sure Sep 19 13:25:01 Sup3rkiddo: comment away Sep 19 13:25:10 Sup3rkiddo: we are going to steal all the good bits Sep 19 13:25:15 XorA, it looks damn sexy imho...that is all Sep 19 13:25:54 Sup3rkiddo: just you wait until OM gets the hasslehof theme :-D Sep 19 13:26:06 XorA, yay, Sep 19 13:30:03 what does the kernel want to say me with '<4>JFFS2 warning: (1153) jffs2_sum_write_sumnode: Not enough space for summary, padsize = -18'? Sep 19 13:32:01 other than "not enough space" ? Sep 19 13:32:16 no, 16% free Sep 19 13:34:15 could be not enough Sep 19 13:34:22 jffs2 needs a certain percentage of free space Sep 19 13:34:25 otherwise it can't operate Sep 19 13:35:37 but it still works fine... Sep 19 13:35:55 is there any ckfs for jffs2? Sep 19 13:39:40 no Sep 19 13:40:09 how can i be shure the fs is consistent? Sep 19 13:40:46 Good morning. Where can I find a transcript of yesterday's chat? Sep 19 13:40:50 hi Sep 19 13:41:35 I believe for various reasons this channel is not being logged. Sep 19 13:42:01 it is Sep 19 13:42:02 no, there is a logg, they talked about that yesterday... see the logg ;) Sep 19 13:42:16 :) Sep 19 13:42:47 http://ibot.rikers.org/%23openmoko/ Sep 19 13:42:53 mickey|openexpo: thx. is this a free font? Sep 19 13:43:03 zefanja: unfortunately not Sep 19 13:43:10 good free fonts are rare Sep 19 13:43:22 there's vera, gentium, liberation Sep 19 13:43:22 or http://logs.nslu2-linux.org/livelogs/openmoko.txt Sep 19 13:43:23 that's it Sep 19 13:43:42 jgm: thanks Sep 19 13:43:52 What about the new liberty fonts (I think that's the name) that showed up (and broke things) when I installed Fedora 7? Sep 19 13:43:55 mickey|openexpo: ok Sep 19 13:49:34 is there any news about webkit? Sep 19 13:49:47 what do u wanna here? Sep 19 13:50:05 availability? Sep 19 13:50:21 moko-make it... works fine ;) Sep 19 13:51:00 can't. gcc-cross is broken atm Sep 19 13:51:26 DukeOfURL: on your machine? i currently build all the time... Sep 19 13:55:03 emdete: http://pastebin.org/2818 Sep 19 14:00:10 strange - i did a wget/update some hours ago... Sep 19 14:01:02 Yes, there has been some "messing about" with the gcc in the repository once again. Sep 19 14:01:08 It is supposed to be fixed as of a few minutes ago. Sep 19 14:01:29 ah, okay... so i leave... bye! Sep 19 14:01:34 Update your build env, and see if that doesn't fix it. Sep 19 14:03:57 gnu: ping Sep 19 14:06:59 DukeOfURL: for "yesterday" look in http://logs.nslu2-linux.org/livelogs/openmoko-prev.txt - it always holds "yesterday" (for same value of $timezone) Sep 19 14:09:21 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Qtopia_on_Neo_1973]] [[OpenMoko2007.2]] [[User:ChrisLord]] Sep 19 14:16:43 i'm having problems with "ttf-liberation_0.2.bb", because wget tries to access a https-url without having the certificate nor -no-check... Sep 19 14:17:49 still no joy: http://pastebin.org/2819 Sep 19 14:18:07 gotta go to work. thanks. Sep 19 14:29:25 this is a bit of a long stretch - but does the technology in the neo1973 have the ability to allow it to be used as a guitar tuner? Sep 19 14:29:42 ... Sep 19 14:29:53 i'm guessing yes Sep 19 14:29:59 depends on the microphone Sep 19 14:30:04 Well, I assume it's enough to have a nice microphone. Sep 19 14:30:16 hey... that's what I'm trying to implement... Sep 19 14:30:19 I was just curious.. Sep 19 14:30:24 Mek: how are you getting on Sep 19 14:30:26 (although it is my first gtk+ experience...) Sep 19 14:30:33 I just started yesterday :P Sep 19 14:30:46 Mek: no problems. do you have the project public anywhere Sep 19 14:30:59 I wouldn't mind helping you out (my first GTK+ experience too). Sep 19 14:31:17 not yet... I registered a project at projects.openmoko.org, but I haven't received a reply/confirmation yet... Sep 19 14:34:04 Mek: it took a week before I received the approvation of a project Sep 19 14:35:25 Mek: considered hosting it on launchpad? Sep 19 14:36:18 not really... and I prefer svn over bzr for scm :P Sep 19 14:36:31 fair dos Sep 19 14:38:52 andylockran: you can probably use a dft on the pcm samples Sep 19 14:39:34 andylockran: there is a page on the wiki Sep 19 14:39:41 [[applications:guitar tuner]] ? Sep 19 14:41:58 ah... I didn;t notice that yet... I also don't really understand what would be special about a Guitar tuner instead of just a tuner you can use for any instrument :P Sep 19 14:46:41 guitar tuner/any tuner should be fairly simple Sep 19 15:04:13 SpeedEvil: ping Sep 19 15:04:17 ? Sep 19 15:04:36 do you know if there is a backup battery connected to the PCF50606? Sep 19 15:05:01 see the dissasembly pictures Sep 19 15:05:32 there is a little battery next to the display on the front Sep 19 15:06:32 yo Sep 19 15:06:37 hows things folks? any good news/ Sep 19 15:06:47 Not especially, no. Sep 19 15:07:03 anyone using their neo's for real stuff yet? Sep 19 15:07:29 Define real stuff. Sep 19 15:07:52 i dunno, something other than coding for it. i.e. actually using it. Sep 19 15:07:53 I'm using it for logging GPS tracks, and reading bluetooth GPS, for openstreetmap Sep 19 15:08:07 i wouldn't mind being able to do that. any kind of working GPS setup yet? Sep 19 15:08:33 The GPS binary is not freely distributable yet Sep 19 15:08:43 Not for most; the new library is not yet working. Sep 19 15:08:45 i have the binary. Sep 19 15:08:49 I'm simply using it as a logging GPS though - not using it in any more complex way Sep 19 15:08:56 but i am working on the latest openmoko builds, which i hear is incompatible, anyway .. Sep 19 15:09:02 yeah Sep 19 15:09:09 though you can run it in a chroot reportedly. Sep 19 15:09:16 meh Sep 19 15:09:20 http://www.mauve.plus.com/dogll I have and it works Sep 19 15:09:23 anyone put the chroot in a pkg yet? Sep 19 15:09:27 this is my script to run it Sep 19 15:10:49 cool Sep 19 15:15:55 can you compile qtopia apps against qt? Sep 19 15:16:03 ... "cupcake" ? Sep 19 15:16:07 i.e. is qtopia a subset of qt? Sep 19 15:16:19 anrp: binary gps - no reason Sep 19 15:20:51 did anyone else trip over that liberation-bb-problem? I solved it by modifying the recipe to use http instead (ssl needed for font-files?!) Sep 19 15:23:16 buz: yes and no, qtopia core is qt so it has the same API, qtopia platform/phone is like a window manage/application suite for phones and has no comliment in qt Sep 19 15:24:08 so to get qtopia to run on X11 rather than fb, you can't just recompile it against qt instead of qt/embedded? Sep 19 15:25:00 actually i think there is a screen-device plugin for X, so you could run it on X Sep 19 15:25:06 but i'm not positive Sep 19 15:25:31 but then you likely lose graphics acceleration Sep 19 15:25:33 buz: yes, you can get a qtopia-core application to run under X11 by just a recompile Sep 19 15:25:41 interesting Sep 19 15:25:54 buz: no, you can not get Qtopia(TM) that runs on the phone to run under X11 Sep 19 15:26:26 qtopia-core is just the Qt library built with some defines that makes it run outside X11 Sep 19 15:27:26 Qtopia(TM) is a kind of desktop environment for phones and a set of applications... this can not run under X11 because it has dependencies besides qtopia-core that would prevent it Sep 19 15:27:42 ok Sep 19 15:27:44 thx Sep 19 15:28:09 torpor: I just flashed the qtopia and this looks like it can be used for "real stuff", like phone, sms etc Sep 19 15:28:18 manyoso: what about QVFb? Sep 19 15:28:40 well, yes of course... you can run any qtopia app or Qtopia(TM) itself under qvfb Sep 19 15:28:54 how come qtopia guys has managed to talk to the modem so well? Sep 19 15:29:06 Im not really understandsing all the low-level development byut still Sep 19 15:29:06 but that is just for testing, right :) Sep 19 15:29:12 :) Sep 19 15:29:18 I am impressed by their speed... or have they been hacking for asa long as openmoko guys? Sep 19 15:29:24 hhf423: good to know Sep 19 15:29:26 sandos: the work is already done by openmoko ppl :) Sep 19 15:29:31 heh ok Sep 19 15:29:37 that's what i'm guessing Sep 19 15:29:40 so how come everybody says its not working ;) Sep 19 15:29:46 sandos: they adopted an already existing modem plugin they had Sep 19 15:29:50 sandos: the question is more why the open source'ing of phone stuff hasn't happened faster. the answer to both question is: hindrance/non-hindrance of license issues Sep 19 15:29:58 torpor: aha ok, so I guess modems are airly alike then Sep 19 15:30:09 s/airly/fairly/ Sep 19 15:30:10 sandos meant: torpor: aha ok, so I guess modems are fairly alike then Sep 19 15:30:22 modems generally respond to much the same commands Sep 19 15:30:25 the qt guys make a living on the integration of closed systems/NDA-protected stuff into a common codebase. Sep 19 15:30:29 buz: the big recent news is that Qtopia(TM) was released under GPL... this wasn't always the case. qtopia-core however has been GPL for ... ever Sep 19 15:30:38 manyoso: yeah i know that Sep 19 15:30:39 they have $$ incentive to firewall based on NDA's Sep 19 15:30:47 oh ok ;) Sep 19 15:30:52 wherease the open guys can't access the docs without $$ so things go slower .. Sep 19 15:31:24 qt have the $$$ backend to support having the docs. the open phone stuff has to either be 'bridged' between non-NDA/free, somehow or someone has to pay for it. Sep 19 15:31:43 phone technology has *huge* IP minefields. Sep 19 15:32:24 which is why the modem is a blackbox, really Sep 19 15:32:25 Cool tablet pc: http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=42470 Sep 19 15:32:34 torpor: i am positive the reason it took so long is TT management were concerned that GPL'ing certain parts would release it into the wild in certain parts of the world who do not care to respect the GPL license Sep 19 15:32:34 the rest of neo is pretty much a pda then ;) Sep 19 15:32:55 that part of the world wouldnt respect any other license, either Sep 19 15:33:03 manyoso: they'd be stupid if thats what they thought since the rest of the world doesn't give a crap about standards. ;) Sep 19 15:33:17 sandos: what is everybody saying is not working? OpenMoko? There are some pieces in OpenMoko which are broken, like gsmd, therefore you can not do reliably phonecalls or sms etc. The trolltech guys have their own "gsmd" etc, so phone and sms etc. works Sep 19 15:33:40 what i want is GPS and Phone stuff 100% working. Sep 19 15:33:57 well duh, if gsmd wont work, people will say the phone is broken Sep 19 15:33:59 because it is Sep 19 15:34:02 torpor: not this week Sep 19 15:34:03 torpor: thats the point. there are certain parts/companies who have no problem taking GPL tech... modifying it... selling it in proprietary way... and not releasing it back Sep 19 15:34:28 buz: you are right they wouldn't. then they wouldn't get the source either :) Sep 19 15:34:35 buz: well, these people can now flash qtopia Sep 19 15:38:53 ah, November 9th is the iphone day for Germany Sep 19 15:39:26 Shiny tech locking you up for 18 months.. Sep 19 15:40:02 Lynet, yes if you're a noob who does not know about unlocking Sep 19 15:40:33 more like you still pay for it Sep 19 15:40:49 pay for what? Sep 19 15:40:55 i'm now flashing qtopia. ;) Sep 19 15:41:00 the locked crap Sep 19 15:41:18 and most likely you pay for the contract every month Sep 19 15:41:41 * Sup3rkiddo has flashed qtopia but having problems with audio..gave it up and flashed openmoko again Sep 19 15:41:43 guaqua: what? why would I enter into a contract? I don't have to. I can buy the phone and unlock it Sep 19 15:41:59 Sup3rkiddo: you need to do the alsa state restore Sep 19 15:42:01 so you can buy iphone without a contract? Sep 19 15:42:07 Sup3rkiddo: what problems with audio? Sep 19 15:42:13 hhf423, did that Sep 19 15:42:17 guaqua: of course. that has always been the case Sep 19 15:42:20 Same as ScaredyCat had I guess Sep 19 15:42:27 hhf423: no it hasn't Sep 19 15:42:35 jpcass, no audio...the wiki has a solution but didnt work for me Sep 19 15:42:44 you can't buy an iphone in the states without signing up for the contract Sep 19 15:42:54 guaqua: for sure. at day one, you went into an apple store an brought the phone. just the phone. no contract Sep 19 15:43:01 nope Sep 19 15:43:13 guaqua: for activation, you needed to select a contract Sep 19 15:43:25 ahh Sep 19 15:43:26 interesting Sep 19 15:43:36 * ScaredyCat doesn't have audio problems on qtopia anymore Sep 19 15:43:38 i notice the audio drivers are for a different kernel : 2.6.22.5 but qtopia runs on 2.6.21.6 (two dirs in /lib/modules) Sep 19 15:43:47 so basically if you don't want to hack the phone, you need a contract Sep 19 15:43:51 ScaredyCat: I did say "had" ;) Sep 19 15:44:08 I'll let you off then ;) Sep 19 15:44:09 guaqua: but you could leave the store without a contract. that was part of the whole concept. unboxing it yourself, not by a slimey phone seller :-) Sep 19 15:44:11 my v8 ready? Sep 19 15:44:23 okay, that i didn't know :) Sep 19 15:44:54 ScaredyCat: so how did you solve that? Sep 19 15:45:04 alsactl Sep 19 15:45:17 loaded up the gsmhandset profile Sep 19 15:45:25 alsactl restore -f /bla? Sep 19 15:45:41 like in the wiki, ok Sep 19 15:45:43 (although mickey|openexpo suggested stereo one may be better) Sep 19 15:45:46 yes Sep 19 15:45:49 ScaredyCat: Nope, I swapped to the 1.6l old S40.. :P Sep 19 15:46:08 * ScaredyCat puts CM in a milling machine Sep 19 15:46:21 hmmm, qtopia seems to have the old kernel which can not talk usb to windows Sep 19 15:46:30 * CM turns into a conehead Sep 19 15:46:34 CM: does it blend? Sep 19 15:46:45 lol - Coneheads! Sep 19 15:47:02 This is unacceptable! Sep 19 15:47:11 hhf423: if you look at /etc/init.d/alsa-state you'll see it tires to load form /etc/ Sep 19 15:47:28 * LarstiQ growls at NetworkManager failing to give usb0 an ip addy Sep 19 15:47:28 :) Sep 19 15:47:58 LarstiQ follow the entry in the wiki and nm will ignore the if Sep 19 15:48:04 ScaredyCat: so fixing it there will fixit even for reboots? Sep 19 15:48:16 ScaredyCat: will you put that into the wiki? Sep 19 15:48:16 LarstiQ the entry for /etc/network/interfaces Sep 19 15:48:34 wow qtopia looks great. Sep 19 15:48:35 if you fix the paths in alsa-state it works fine on reboot Sep 19 15:48:47 roh: I thought I did that, but I'll check again Sep 19 15:48:47 seems like the qtopia release would be nice to use.. Sep 19 15:49:19 did someone try the qtopia with the latest kernel? Sep 19 15:49:30 bbl Sep 19 15:50:18 hhf423: just building now Sep 19 15:51:04 * hhf423 is flashing the latest kernel to the qtopia rootfs Sep 19 15:51:19 hhf423: where's the wiki direction for enabling audio? Sep 19 15:51:26 hey bluetooth works nice in qtopia.. Sep 19 15:51:31 * ScaredyCat fears lack of sidk space again Sep 19 15:51:37 sidk! Sep 19 15:51:38 disk Sep 19 15:52:40 ScaredyCat: so more nonessentials will have to go... Sep 19 15:52:49 ? Sep 19 15:53:07 hmm, qtopia boots fine with the new kernel Sep 19 15:54:29 heh, cool. and volia, it talks to windows Sep 19 15:54:51 CM : I find you unacceptable! Sep 19 15:55:02 If I did not fear incarceration from human authority figures, I would terminate your life functions by applying sufficient pressure to your blunt skull so as to force its collapse! Sep 19 15:55:15 ScaredyCat: Hehe Sep 19 15:55:47 ScaredyCat: Maybe some of this wine would make you feel better? http://uk.techcrunch.com/2007/09/17/microsoft-approves-blue-monster-wine/ Sep 19 15:56:06 "Change the world or go home" Sep 19 15:56:16 anyone get the SIP client working on the neo/qtopia? Sep 19 15:56:43 CM: I bet it's pure Bill Gates piss Sep 19 15:57:16 Hehe.. Go home sounds nice. :) Sep 19 15:57:20 jpcass: I thought you did Sep 19 15:57:27 or did you have routing issues? Sep 19 15:57:45 anyone know what the bluetooth key is in qtopia? Sep 19 15:57:45 no, it was trying to connect to my asterisk but didnt work and I didnt have time yet to look at it... Sep 19 15:57:57 looking at the qtopia stuff, these appears to be an iax client too Sep 19 15:58:09 yes i think routing problems, I guess my machine was doing NAT from 192.168.0 to 192.168.1 where asterisk is... Sep 19 15:58:12 torpor: BlueZ Sep 19 15:58:54 funny enough asterisk was giving a log message when I had the wrong name in the setup , but nothing when I had the correct name (=sip.conf) Sep 19 15:59:08 hehe Sep 19 15:59:13 so something was getting through, but only the error case was being reported... Sep 19 15:59:34 firewalling on pc? Sep 19 15:59:43 ScaredyCat: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Qtopia_on_Neo_1973 Sep 19 15:59:54 thats the key right? Sep 19 15:59:55 andylockran: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Qtopia_on_Neo_1973 Sep 19 16:00:18 torpor: yes iirc, you can look at hcid.conf to be sure Sep 19 16:00:26 hhf423: ? Sep 19 16:00:28 can't do that, don't have net connection to the phone yet. Sep 19 16:00:38 i guess the default ip for qtopia is the same for openmoko? Sep 19 16:00:49 yes Sep 19 16:00:50 maybe firewall...just using the setting in the wiki ...I'll check Sep 19 16:01:17 ScaredyCat: ahh, it tries to load from /etc, but the stuff is in /etc/alsa Sep 19 16:01:43 yes Sep 19 16:01:51 ScaredyCat: thats where it used to be with the "old" kernel. with the "new" kernel, the state stuff is in /etc, not /etc/alsa Sep 19 16:02:01 k. Sep 19 16:02:04 so I wonder if they buldled the wrong kernel with it Sep 19 16:02:23 I'm just building it now, so we'll see if that fixes it.. Sep 19 16:02:35 any shipment news? Sep 19 16:02:43 you know the cool thing is... Sep 19 16:03:00 yes? Sep 19 16:03:01 hmm? Sep 19 16:03:05 you bitbake the qtopia edition Sep 19 16:03:15 so you can build both :) Sep 19 16:03:16 awesome Sep 19 16:03:20 has someone made recipes? Sep 19 16:03:26 bluetooth is nice. Sep 19 16:04:34 oh Sep 19 16:04:50 oh, alsactl tells me "no soundcards found" Sep 19 16:05:26 ScaredyCat: forget that, the state files are still in /etc/alsa, I must be mixing things up Sep 19 16:06:07 man i hope openmoko catches u with qtopia soon .. Sep 19 16:06:42 why does alsactl not find a soundcard? Sep 19 16:07:09 lsmod | grep snd Sep 19 16:07:17 is it a qtopia4 build for neo? Sep 19 16:07:30 jpcass: nothing there Sep 19 16:07:35 berkus: yes Sep 19 16:07:44 berkus: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Qtopia_on_Neo_1973 Sep 19 16:07:46 gooood Sep 19 16:07:51 modprobe snd-soc-neo1973-wm8753 (or something!) Sep 19 16:07:54 i've been there thanks ) Sep 19 16:07:54 roh: thanks, my complaint was in the other direction, but with the udev fix I've got a setup I'm happy enough with Sep 19 16:08:18 hhf423: have you been changing kernel version? Sep 19 16:08:40 jpcass: yes, thats probably it Sep 19 16:08:57 doh Sep 19 16:09:18 I wanted the new kernel which speaks to windows Sep 19 16:11:02 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Translation_HOWTO/de]] [[Qtopia_on_Neo_1973]] [[OpenMoko_Local_Groups:_Berlin]] [[OpenMoko_Local_Groups:_Milan]] [[Wish_List]] [[Python]] Sep 19 16:12:16 jpcass: get qtopia-opensource-4.3.0 and look in the devices/ficgta01 dir Sep 19 16:13:13 scaredycat: for what? Sep 19 16:13:32 scaredycat: my brain is already full trying to understand openembedded / openmoko! Sep 19 16:13:53 my brain was full before i started Sep 19 16:13:58 and I'm going to have to learn about firewalling to get the voip client working.... Sep 19 16:14:02 * anrp attemps fflush() but is still waiting Sep 19 16:14:20 voip client, droool Sep 19 16:14:23 * jpcass uses java garbage collection Sep 19 16:14:39 scaredycat: anyway, whats in there? Sep 19 16:15:12 .bb recipies Sep 19 16:15:50 ok, that's cool. Sep 19 16:16:00 anrp: start swapping to paper ;) Sep 19 16:18:44 ok, now calls work with voice etc. Sep 19 16:18:56 good stuff Sep 19 16:19:00 i like that: voice, etc. Sep 19 16:19:26 jpcass: and noises, and music :-) Sep 19 16:19:51 noises? Sep 19 16:19:53 music? Sep 19 16:20:01 did you find a music player on there? i've installed mpd but no gui client... Sep 19 16:20:07 you're not dialing sex lines are you? Sep 19 16:20:44 openmoko: 03thomas * r3013 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/libraries/libmokoui2/ (9 files in 3 dirs): (log message trimmed) Sep 19 16:20:44 openmoko: * Makefile.am: Sep 19 16:20:44 openmoko: * autogen.sh: Sep 19 16:20:44 openmoko: * configure.ac: Sep 19 16:20:44 openmoko: * doc/reference/Makefile.am: Sep 19 16:20:46 openmoko: * doc/reference/version.xml.in Sep 19 16:20:48 openmoko: Add gtk-doc support Sep 19 16:21:34 the keyboad they have is bloody brilliant Sep 19 16:22:05 have you found the left right up down strokes? Sep 19 16:22:09 this "slide to get cpas, numbers, special chars" Sep 19 16:23:01 openmoko: 03thomas * r3014 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/libraries/libmokoui2/libmokoui/moko-finger-scroll.c: * Actually commit new documentation Sep 19 16:23:38 openmoko: 03thomas * r3015 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/libraries/libmokoui2/ (3 files in 2 dirs): Sep 19 16:23:38 openmoko: * libmokoui/moko-hint-entry.c: Sep 19 16:23:38 openmoko: * libmokoui/moko-hint-entry.h: Sep 19 16:23:38 openmoko: Relicense under LGPL Sep 19 16:23:47 ScaredyCat: thats dard cool, is it? Sep 19 16:24:00 yes, we like that a lot Sep 19 16:24:02 yes, it works pretty well Sep 19 16:24:15 have you tries the click-and-hold ? Sep 19 16:24:16 still not very usable with finger thought Sep 19 16:24:19 tried Sep 19 16:24:20 -t Sep 19 16:24:22 I would never have guessed that I'd be happy to see a call history Sep 19 16:24:29 with the circle popup? Sep 19 16:24:33 ya Sep 19 16:24:42 ScaredyCat: yeah, that zoom stuff is cool Sep 19 16:25:03 i was reading a research paper about that type of popup and was thinking of implementing for moko ;-) Sep 19 16:25:14 hehhe Sep 19 16:25:36 of course it can all be done *better* ... Sep 19 16:25:38 thees a click and hold thing in other places too... seems to act like a double click Sep 19 16:26:12 ... but not until tomorrow (at the earliest) ... bye! Sep 19 16:26:33 bye Sep 19 16:27:45 bye Sep 19 16:27:52 this is quite well made Sep 19 16:28:00 is this 4.3 already or still 4.2 Sep 19 16:31:00 this is totally usable Sep 19 16:31:06 only gsm is missing Sep 19 16:31:11 gsm? Sep 19 16:31:17 it works Sep 19 16:31:19 gps, sorry Sep 19 16:31:32 ahh yes, but that's anoter story... Sep 19 16:31:42 any news on the licencing? Sep 19 16:31:53 yaw, one more thing where there is no news Sep 19 16:32:38 oh, so we can steal the gsm part? Sep 19 16:32:52 how does one make screenshots with qtopia? Sep 19 16:32:59 steal? it's gpl Sep 19 16:33:12 hhf423: cat /dev/fb0 >myfile.raw Sep 19 16:33:33 ah, thanks Sep 19 16:33:41 ScaredyCat: affectionate usage of the verb steal :) Sep 19 16:33:50 But gsmd is lgpl isn't it? Sep 19 16:33:57 ScaredyCat: steal, in the good sense. Sep 19 16:34:42 the problem is people like the guy from Nokia use it when talking about gpl to people who don;t understand... Sep 19 16:34:58 which is why I like to point out that it's not eally stealing.. Sep 19 16:35:10 ScaredyCat: You and SpeedEvil are most popular it seems.. That's totaly odd ;) http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Community_nominees_for_GTA02_P0 Sep 19 16:35:27 not odd, I'm really nice :) Sep 19 16:35:38 Hehe Sep 19 16:36:04 CM: but that list might not even get seen anyway... so.. well... you know... Sep 19 16:36:25 chickens.state != hatched Sep 19 16:36:40 ScaredyCat: What do you mean not seen? Read the quotes from mickey|zzZZzz on that wiki page? Sep 19 16:36:45 oh, there is a GPE gui for the Neo as well? Sep 19 16:37:05 Poky? Sep 19 16:37:09 and they can make phone calls!? Sep 19 16:37:28 http://linuxtogo.org/~florian/index.php?path=gpepe%2Ffic-gta01/ Sep 19 16:37:51 hhf423: interesting Sep 19 16:38:00 Pooky pooky Sep 19 16:38:10 LarstiQ: oh yes Sep 19 16:39:18 I'm liking Qt 4 more than I did 2 (the last version I used) Sep 19 16:39:47 I can use smoke to make all of Qt available to guile *and* write a QtScript implementation to enable embedding guile in any application Sep 19 16:39:59 and it can coexist transparantly with the ecmascript engine Sep 19 16:40:26 * hhf423 will now flash the gpe stuff just to see that Sep 19 16:40:36 I wish there were a GtkScript engine system Sep 19 16:40:50 then guile, python, ... could all coexist peacefully Sep 19 16:41:35 that makes three environment to choose from Sep 19 16:41:51 now we just want to have the JavaFX phone rootfs as well Sep 19 16:41:59 and gps working Sep 19 16:42:00 the joys of an open phone Sep 19 16:42:36 exactly Sep 19 16:43:09 What about Ubuntu Mobile? :) Sep 19 16:43:10 put them all on and sd card tripple boot ;) Sep 19 16:43:26 CM: I would, but it's brown :P Sep 19 16:43:27 then I can decide each morning what kind of a person I want to be. A GTK person, a QT person, a GPE person or a JAVA person or whatever Sep 19 16:43:48 Fortrn Sep 19 16:43:49 yeah, my 4GB SD is in the mail soon I hope Sep 19 16:43:54 Fortran Sep 19 16:44:06 4gb ones working ok? Sep 19 16:44:21 ScaredyCat: yes, at least one reportedly ok Sep 19 16:44:44 DukeOfURL: GOD is REAL unless declared INTEGER... Sep 19 16:44:44 ...anyone working to get e17 on neo :P Sep 19 16:44:54 I presume that;s the one you ordered then hhf423 ;) Sep 19 16:44:57 rofl Sep 19 16:45:10 Sup3rkiddo: raster said he wanted to, but was too busy Sep 19 16:45:16 ScaredyCat: yes, a 4GB sandisk sdhc Sep 19 16:45:24 cool Sep 19 16:45:25 ScaredyCat: stefan schmidt reported a working one Sep 19 16:45:26 what does GPE look like? Sep 19 16:45:35 hozer, waitasec Sep 19 16:45:36 * LarstiQ is personally pining for the new 6GB sandisk Sep 19 16:45:37 okay, qtopia is very impresive. Sep 19 16:45:44 looks like it could all be being done with openmoko too .. Sep 19 16:45:50 hehe, 16gb ftw! Sep 19 16:45:52 hozer: http://scap.linuxtogo.org/files/724a5ed7ecd6e09bef7701aac9fe9351.png Sep 19 16:46:00 DukeOfURL: You noticed that gcc fortran support was added to the cross compiler in oe today? Sep 19 16:46:09 Sup3rkiddo:http://gstaedtner.net/e17_on_Neo.avi Sep 19 16:46:14 Octave on the neo! Sep 19 16:46:22 * hozer should compile the GAMESS computational chemistry code and run it just for fun Sep 19 16:46:43 I bet it runs faster than the first machine GAMESS was compiled for Sep 19 16:47:15 i saw a e widget in the neo, in one of the progress bars, had that characteristic golden colour, or i was on crack that time Sep 19 16:47:19 sweet. Sep 19 16:47:59 boot! Sep 19 16:48:07 fgau, Dude, that's shocking and appealing. Sep 19 16:48:24 E17 uses its own UI toolkit I ugess? Sep 19 16:48:30 * Sup3rkiddo meanwhile is still waiting for the file to download...:S Sep 19 16:48:34 Is there a GTK source-compatibility shiim for it? Sep 19 16:48:37 paulproteus: thomasg has build e17 Sep 19 16:48:38 Sup3rkiddo, Just stream it! Sep 19 16:48:38 CM: yes, I have to fetch gcc-cross because it wouldn't compile. why fortran? Sep 19 16:48:41 mplayer $url Sep 19 16:48:50 oops - wrong x Sep 19 16:48:59 paulproteus: yes, e17 uses the efl (enlightenment foundation libraries) Sep 19 16:48:59 paulproteus, yup, etk, ewl, you could use enhance + glade too Sep 19 16:49:15 e17 itself doesn't use etk or ewl, it uses edje Sep 19 16:49:24 Sup3rkiddo, Awesome, it'd be really cool if E17 got some use in OpenMokoland. (-: Sep 19 16:49:39 paulproteus: http://gstaedtner.net/e17_on_Neo.avi Sep 19 16:50:02 paulproteus, raster hangs around here, maybe he has some plan, apps based on clutter would look sweet too... Sep 19 16:50:07 Is that the same file? Sep 19 16:50:09 gah! sick of this!! Sep 19 16:50:10 ERROR: '/home/j/hak/openmoko/openembedded/packages/libsdl/libsdl-net_1.2.7.bb' failed Sep 19 16:50:34 comment it out of the feed torpor Sep 19 16:50:37 torpor, care to give me the id you get, so that i might expect it sometime Sep 19 16:50:40 paulproteus: yep Sep 19 16:50:43 unless you need it Sep 19 16:52:01 ok Sep 19 16:52:08 gpe is totally unusable Sep 19 16:52:18 :( Sep 19 16:52:20 why ? Sep 19 16:52:40 not seing sim ? Sep 19 16:52:45 seeing Sep 19 16:52:53 for one thing, yes Sep 19 16:53:06 and does not pop up a keyboard Sep 19 16:53:27 and so on. sort of less usable than the first om version I used Sep 19 16:53:37 Sup3rkiddo, paulproteus mickey|zzZZzz is also involved with enlightment, particularly efl Sep 19 16:53:42 Sup3rkiddo: sorry, id? Sep 19 16:54:28 CM, yeah..mickey told me once he is "looking" into other options.. Sep 19 16:54:57 CM, Very cool. The source compatibility I think would be very important. Sep 19 16:55:09 Sup3rkiddo: http://www.vanille-media.de/site/index.php/projects/efl/ Sep 19 16:56:04 btw guys, a python JIT for neo, any comments?...i am looking at psyco or pypy...am aware of the memory it requires but is it worth it? Sep 19 16:57:09 Well - try it! Sep 19 16:57:19 psyco won't work on non-x86 from what I recall. Sep 19 16:57:21 worst case it can be an app that goes onto the media card Sep 19 16:57:40 paulproteus, yeah it doesnt...am a very ambitious person;;P Sep 19 16:57:54 :) Sep 19 16:58:07 * SpeedEvil hands Sup3rkiddo a BGA rework tool and a reel of fine wire. Sep 19 16:58:12 it'll have to go on there SpeedEvil - basic python req's seem to be quite large in general Sep 19 16:58:14 :P Sep 19 16:58:14 Sup3rkiddo, I think pypy is the way to go. Sep 19 16:58:35 Sup3rkiddo: if you're very ambitios, certainly check out pypy. Sep 19 16:58:37 paulproteus, yeah, the psyco creator told the same thing... Sep 19 16:59:03 Sup3rkiddo: especially since armin is working on pypy instead of psyco nowadays Sep 19 16:59:17 but this of course needs more experienced guys.....anyone willing to to do stuff? Sep 19 16:59:40 wtf - pypy is a python interpreter for python ... Sep 19 16:59:45 LarstiQ, right...i really am curious about memory leaks if any, when python is run Sep 19 16:59:50 http://codespeak.net/pypy/dist/pypy/doc/release-1.0.0.html fwiw Sep 19 16:59:51 ScaredyCat: and much more Sep 19 17:00:19 ScaredyCat: like, a jit-compiler generator Sep 19 17:00:19 ScaredyCat, nokia did that for symbian OS...their python interpreter is written in python, and with a few dlls, they did it! Sep 19 17:00:38 ScaredyCat: which makes for the faster prolog interpreter I know :) Sep 19 17:00:45 fastest even Sep 19 17:00:45 roflmao Sep 19 17:00:47 hege Sep 19 17:00:50 -hehe Sep 19 17:01:09 you're all mad Sep 19 17:01:11 :) Sep 19 17:01:37 lol.. Sep 19 17:01:50 * Sup3rkiddo is also into nethack for neo :D Sep 19 17:02:18 maybe i will write a bitbake for it and see how it goes...:P Sep 19 17:02:20 how the hell do you play that on the neo Sep 19 17:02:22 recipe Sep 19 17:02:26 ooh, qtopia certainly looks spiffy Sep 19 17:02:50 ScaredyCat, OnScreen keyboard or voice inputs :P Sep 19 17:02:58 what is bitbake? Sep 19 17:02:59 bakefiles? Sep 19 17:03:04 cakes Sep 19 17:03:11 mmmmm cake Sep 19 17:03:19 er..sorry recipes Sep 19 17:05:03 ScaredyCat: see i want libsdl-net, thats a nuisance for me .. Sep 19 17:05:32 ahh k... yes Sep 19 17:05:36 it would be a pain Sep 19 17:06:19 but commenting it out of the feed is good enough for now .. thx. Sep 19 17:07:30 is the guitar pick hidden, my kit did not arrive with it..=( Sep 19 17:12:05 Sup3rkiddo: mine was tucked into the foam Sep 19 17:12:42 torpor, will search it, apparently my finger nail is no match Sep 19 17:13:49 by now i can open the neo case by nail .. Sep 19 17:14:21 partially clench your fist Sep 19 17:14:36 place the heel of your hand in the middle of the back of the case Sep 19 17:14:50 place your fingernail in the hole at the place Sep 19 17:15:06 hold your hand and wrist rigid. Sep 19 17:15:19 now, piviot the arm down parallel with the case Sep 19 17:15:25 this pops it out gently Sep 19 17:15:31 When the gui dev docs say that we should not make any of the widgets/boxes/etc a static size because of resolution, are their going to be more gtk wrappers released or developed on once we start growing? Sep 19 17:15:31 * Sup3rkiddo looks at SpeedEvil Sep 19 17:16:08 SpeedEvil never fails Sep 19 17:16:18 believe what he says, for fact, thats what I do, and it works great! :] Sep 19 17:17:37 GTA01 doesn't have wifi, but GTA02 does... correct? Sep 19 17:17:37 Currently sold Neo1973 GTA01B_v04 (P1) doesn't have WiFi, GTA02 (P2) which is scheduled for October will have WiFi with free (libre) drivers (Atheros AR6K): http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ#Q:_What_is_the_rationale_behind_the_exclusion_of_WiFi.3F Sep 19 17:18:27 manyoso: Yes Sep 19 17:18:32 counter Sep 19 17:18:32 http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter Got it, get yours from openmoko.com (and read topic) (1810;252) Sep 19 17:31:02 i've tried five different sim cards and using gsm manually and with libgsmd-tool + gsmd and i can't get it working. i can't figure out how to pin down the problem, i keep getting CME errors 10 and 32 (SIM not inserted) and (Network not allowed, emergency calls only) Sep 19 17:31:09 any hints? Sep 19 17:32:00 I'm getting "Verifying checksum ... Bad Data CRC" on boot. I've reflashed several times but the problem persists. How do I get out of this? Sep 19 17:35:33 get theboot menu up... Sep 19 17:35:42 then select 'Factory Rest' Sep 19 17:35:47 then select 'Factory Reset' Sep 19 17:35:55 tht should boot for you Sep 19 17:37:15 ScaredyCat: That doesn't work. What does Factory Reset do, anyhow? Sep 19 17:38:16 hello Sep 19 17:38:23 hello Sep 19 17:38:41 hey Sep 19 17:41:34 notuniq: please post your /tmp/gsm.log somewhere Sep 19 17:43:32 okay, i really should have already done that Sep 19 17:44:55 why I get lots of MMC CMD Timeout when I do mmcinit? it does not seem to work after that Sep 19 17:45:09 So is the Neo1973 a reliable phone with Qtopia on it? Sep 19 17:45:55 reliable as in can place and receive calls with few problems Sep 19 17:46:04 or in that regard does it have the same problems as OpenMoko Sep 19 17:47:13 http://pastebin.com/m67ca02e7 Sep 19 17:47:28 that's just the output from typing O and L in libgsmd-tool Sep 19 17:48:05 i get back "EVENT: Netreg registration denied" and then an event saying the Signal quality Sep 19 17:52:44 I've got a puzzling problem... I build a local overlay with a couple of packages of my own, and pulling in a couple of extra packages. This has been working for several weeks now. Sep 19 17:53:37 Last night I did a complete rebuild. It's clear that my image .bb file is the one being read, because the rootfs task is looking for the packages I specify Sep 19 17:53:47 But they are not being built. Sep 19 17:54:21 Did something change in the underlying BB system that changed how it determined what needs to be built? Sep 19 17:56:44 could someone take a look at this: http://pastebin.org/2837 Sep 19 17:57:20 reading NAND page failed--does this mean NAND hardware is bad? Sep 19 18:02:18 hmmm... before I only needed to specify the packages in PACKAGE_INSTALL, now they need to also be added to DEPENDS Sep 19 18:02:34 DukeOfURL dunno exactly... tried resetting the partitions? Sep 19 18:03:09 DukeOfURL meaning, doing the dynpart stuff Sep 19 18:04:30 roh: I see the dynpart command in uboot. How do I use it? Sep 19 18:05:18 DukeOfURL http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/NAND_bad_blocks explains it a bit Sep 19 18:05:37 it basicaally calculates the partitions around the badblocks Sep 19 18:06:37 means dynpart dynenv set u-boot_env saveenv.. i think Sep 19 18:07:51 DukeOfURL do you have a debugboard? Sep 19 18:10:16 roh: yes, but I haven't unpacked it Sep 19 18:10:34 still in the lunchbox Sep 19 18:11:24 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[User:ChrisLord]] [[Talk:MokoMakefile]] [[Talk:Qtopia_on_Neo_1973]] [[Qtopia_on_Neo_1973]] [[Getting_Started_with_your_Neo1973/de]] [[User:Hhf423]] [[Community_nominees_for_GTA02_P0]] [[Translation_HOWTO/de]] Sep 19 18:11:34 OK... I'm wrong... what changed, that I didn't notice, is that in openmoko-devel-image, PACKAGE_INSTALL has been replaced by IMAGE_INSTALL Sep 19 18:13:45 DukeOfURL just in case.. it could well be that the uboot comes up in serial as default and does not bring up acm.. so you would need it to config it again (initially done while devirginating) Sep 19 18:16:05 anyone else having problems building uicmoc3-native? Sep 19 18:18:06 It seems to be trying to copy staging/i686-linux/share/qmake/linux-oe-g++/* which doesn't exist. Sep 19 18:19:07 just mkdir/touch it Sep 19 18:19:08 >.> Sep 19 18:19:14 ...yeah, that's probably not a real solution Sep 19 18:24:35 There was another toolchain glitch over the past 18 hours or so; a change made to the gcc build process which was backed out. Others have already reported that if you synced and started to build during that time window, you may need to delete the entire build/tmp structure and start over. Sep 19 18:24:36 I have a problem with the SD card from uboot http://pastebin.org/2839 Sep 19 18:24:43 anyone can help me? Sep 19 18:25:40 it can't talk to the card Sep 19 18:25:42 mwester: that's probably what bit me... I started a rebuild about 8pm (Pacific) last night Sep 19 18:25:44 is it in? does it work? Sep 19 18:25:50 try it in a card reader Sep 19 18:26:06 yes it works and it is in. Sep 19 18:26:07 mwester: I just did this: 'bitbake gcc-cross -c rebuild' and it built ok Sep 19 18:26:08 also, the card holder on gta01bv4 is pretty delicate and hard to lock Sep 19 18:26:11 so be careful... Sep 19 18:26:20 you have the debug board hooked up? Sep 19 18:26:22 accessed from the phone and both a card reader yesterday Sep 19 18:26:26 anrp, no Sep 19 18:26:28 "pretty delicate" is a nice way to put it... Sep 19 18:26:39 anrp, I'm connected via usb to uboot Sep 19 18:26:42 lol Sep 19 18:26:42 inded Sep 19 18:26:44 *e Sep 19 18:26:57 1/wi30 Sep 19 18:26:59 oops Sep 19 18:27:31 "Once installed, leave it alone" is the way I'd phrase it actually! Most definitely *not* something that you would remove daily to update your MP3 collection via a card reader, for example... Sep 19 18:27:31 I'm now booting to check it sd still works to double check it Sep 19 18:27:58 that's how i'd treat it Sep 19 18:28:00 I did it cause I wanted to fdisk it Sep 19 18:28:04 microsd has huge economies of scale Sep 19 18:28:07 mwester: what are the symptomos of the gcc bug? Sep 19 18:28:08 now there are two partitions Sep 19 18:28:17 so much so that it's probably cheaper to stick in a microsd slot than use dedicated flash chips Sep 19 18:28:24 i am part-way through attempting a build i started around 6pm tonight .. Sep 19 18:30:50 long live to double check habit! Sep 19 18:30:54 roh: I still have NAND read failure at x148200 Sep 19 18:30:56 NOTE: package openmoko-qtopia-image-1.0: completed Sep 19 18:32:12 ScaredyCat: that is nice! Sep 19 18:33:41 I'd better test it :) Sep 19 18:34:51 ScaredyCat: thats exciting Sep 19 18:35:32 DukeOfURL hm.. bad.. can you file a bug in bugzilla? Sep 19 18:40:40 BTW: Does backup-your-neo via dfu work? Sep 19 18:41:11 roh: should I try the devirginator first? Sep 19 18:41:33 that sounds like a fun job Sep 19 18:41:41 DukeOfURL you can, it should not make it worse Sep 19 18:58:19 anyone speak German ? Sep 19 18:59:05 ScaredyCat: see #neo1973-germany Sep 19 18:59:31 ScaredyCat: Google or babelfish can translate if you need to translate a page Sep 19 18:59:37 it;s not really a neo/openmoko issue Sep 19 19:00:02 I need to find out how to ;unlock' my SEG 5300 vcr Sep 19 19:00:45 it has a led image of a key .. and it wont respond to the remote (or unplugging) Sep 19 19:01:14 so I need to search in German fo r 'how to unlock my SEG 5300' :) Sep 19 19:01:38 ScaredyCat: that happened to me once... i went away for the weekend, my cats walked on the remote and locked the VCR Sep 19 19:01:54 SEG one? Sep 19 19:01:59 no, mitsubishi Sep 19 19:02:05 never heard of SEG Sep 19 19:02:12 wife just put a pizza box on the remote... locked the vcr Sep 19 19:02:26 samsung electronik gruppe ors? Sep 19 19:02:50 iirc it was a very long press on a couple of keys on the remote to unlock it again Sep 19 19:03:14 ScaredyCat: Google says: wie man mein SEG 5300 entriegelt Sep 19 19:05:28 * mwester recalls Monty Python's Hungarian/English Phrasebook.... Sep 19 19:05:45 i will not buy this VCR, it is scratched! Sep 19 19:06:11 We could have some fun with ScaredyCat :) Sep 19 19:06:52 does the remote have a USB port? :-) Sep 19 19:07:43 it might be bluetooth? Sep 19 19:08:20 is there a factory reset pinhole? Remove batteries? Sep 19 19:09:46 ScaredyCat: http://www.eserviceinfo.com/downloadsm/17157/SEG_VCR3xxx%20series.html looks promising Sep 19 19:10:17 yeah I have those... it tells me everything except that :/ Sep 19 19:10:22 ScaredyCat http://195.160.173.6/incoming/SEG%20VCR%20x3%20Series.pdf Sep 19 19:11:25 ScaredyCat but it tells that its a daewoo in reality ;_) Sep 19 19:11:35 yeah... Sep 19 19:11:41 Is this normal for dfu upload? http://en.pastebin.ca/703663 Sep 19 19:11:54 I think that's what I have already... tech doc, not user :( Sep 19 19:17:24 Elrond nope.. should not happen Sep 19 19:17:39 openmoko: 03thomas * r3016 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/libraries/libmokoui2/ (ChangeLog autogen.sh): * autogen.sh: Run gtkdocize first Sep 19 19:17:57 my neo is in kansas Sep 19 19:18:00 roh - Note "upload" (that's device to host). Sep 19 19:18:06 roh - Any hints? Sep 19 19:19:23 Elrond, are you root? Sep 19 19:19:35 Ghiottone - Yes. Sep 19 19:19:51 tried more than once? Sep 19 19:20:05 I can retry, of course. Sep 19 19:20:36 ScaredyCat: found this for a SEG DVD player: Universal-Passwort: 3308 here http://www.fernseh-maul.de/html/codeliste_kindersicherung_dvd.html there is a link to a side for videoplayers too but no SEG Sep 19 19:21:02 Elrond oeh.. dunno. ive never tried that Sep 19 19:21:28 roh - I want a backup of my rootfs before I upgrade to 7.2 Sep 19 19:21:37 Elrond, I would do. sometimes it returned an error to me but the second time it worked. I'm talking about download, however, so this may not apply Sep 19 19:22:12 Ghiottone - download (kernel mostly) always worked fine. Sep 19 19:22:25 mmm... ta Sep 19 19:23:28 np Sep 19 19:24:21 backup# time dfu-util -a rootfs -R -U rootfs-3.backup Sep 19 19:24:26 Anything wrong about this? Sep 19 19:24:54 Elrond: i think upload is broken in uboot Sep 19 19:25:22 Obri - *hmpf* Sep 19 19:25:50 Obri - Is there a bug open on this? Sep 19 19:26:26 Elrond: i had no time to write a bugreport Sep 19 19:27:34 Obri - But you're quite sure, that it's an u-boot issue? Sep 19 19:28:00 Elrond: hmm or dfu-util Sep 19 19:28:25 The fun is: It seems to work, mostly. Sep 19 19:28:36 Except the image I get back is not as large, as I would expect. Sep 19 19:29:12 From /proc/mtd on the running neo: Sep 19 19:29:20 mtd4: 03d1c000 00004000 "rootfs" Sep 19 19:29:35 openmoko: 03thomas * r3017 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/libraries/libmokoui2/ (ChangeLog doc/reference/Makefile.am): * doc/reference/Makefile.am: Fix incorrect use of '+=' Sep 19 19:29:51 0x03d1c000 == 64077824 Sep 19 19:30:10 While the images I get back: 64008192 Sep 19 21:02 rootfs-2.backup Sep 19 19:30:11 ScaredyCat: manual for another daewoo vcr manual says press and hold power button for >6 seconds Sep 19 19:31:21 if all else fails, you could try putting the pizza box back on it. Sep 19 19:42:56 ok Sep 19 19:43:07 if I start the neo, the kernel sees the SD card Sep 19 19:43:19 if I reboot and get into uboot, then mmcinit works Sep 19 19:43:35 but as soon as I do ext2ls mmc 0 / the neo hangs Sep 19 19:44:16 if however I coldstart the neo, and give the mmcinit command it fails. if then I boot, the kernel cannot see the SD card. Sep 19 19:44:19 any tip? Sep 19 19:52:16 hiya, kids Sep 19 19:52:25 guess what I just learned Sep 19 19:52:42 bitbake cares what it's working directory is Sep 19 19:52:49 who knew? Sep 19 19:53:08 in retrospect, it makes sense. Sep 19 19:53:56 orospakr, . setup-env; cd build; bitbake whatever Sep 19 19:54:15 s/orospakr/orpheus/ Sep 19 19:54:15 Ghiottone meant: orpheus, . setup-env; cd build; bitbake whatever Sep 19 19:54:21 orospakr, sry Sep 19 19:54:48 ghiottone: yeah, i got that now Sep 19 19:54:59 it's the cd build that i missed Sep 19 19:56:08 i just feel dumb for spending 4 hours figuring that out Sep 19 19:56:46 orpheus, yeah. I learned that looking at mokomakefile wondering why it did not work Sep 19 19:57:19 orpheus - welcome to the club, I did that too. :) Sep 19 19:57:37 perhaps we need to put this in big, bold letters somewhere... Sep 19 19:58:15 any tip for me about the sd card? Sep 19 19:58:44 What kind of tip? Sep 19 19:59:18 I wrote some lines some minutes ago. I was asking for an advice on what to do Sep 19 19:59:27 I have problems with uboot and sd card Sep 19 19:59:55 is the sd card formatted as the right fs? Sep 19 20:00:26 it has 2 partitions. first is ext2, second contains qtopia image Sep 19 20:00:40 I made that with fdisk Sep 19 20:01:44 so, i came in after what you had said before... Sep 19 20:02:24 are you trying to copy a kernel and/or rootfs image from sd? Sep 19 20:02:47 yes. both Sep 19 20:02:55 this is what I said http://pastebin.com/d732a6711 Sep 19 20:03:02 ah Sep 19 20:03:46 wow Sep 19 20:03:51 that's not good at all Sep 19 20:04:21 yeah Sep 19 20:04:23 and def. way over my head Sep 19 20:04:36 it is a show stopper for me atm Sep 19 20:04:46 can you flash over usb? Sep 19 20:04:59 I have all things ready for a dual boot on qtopia Sep 19 20:05:03 damn Sep 19 20:05:08 yes I can flash Sep 19 20:05:16 had no problem at all with the sd card Sep 19 20:05:26 maybe it is just the uboot version Sep 19 20:05:40 it is of 19 aug Sep 19 20:05:57 could always try re-uboot-ing it with something older Sep 19 20:06:13 What will GTA02 cost? alot more tehn GTA01? Sep 19 20:06:14 timtux: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (and also SH1, SH1_FAQ, Neo1973, Developer_preview and Neo1973_Hardware#GTA01Bv4 pages) (Hopefully these links answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) Sep 19 20:06:54 orpheus, as I don't have the debug board, I won't risk using another uboot :( Sep 19 20:07:07 ah Sep 19 20:07:17 i read that as 19 sept Sep 19 20:07:21 $450 for the base Sep 19 20:08:21 mjr: any discount if you already own a GTA01? Sep 19 20:08:56 ghittone: good luck then, i'd test, but i don't have that uboot, i don't think Sep 19 20:08:57 timtux, no. discount has already been done in gta01 Sep 19 20:09:10 Ghiottone: aight, then i better wait ;( Sep 19 20:09:19 * timtux so wants the wlan :) Sep 19 20:10:29 s/wlan/wifi. Sep 19 20:10:57 <|R> same here, 480x640 + wifi + bluetooth keyboard: ssh control room! :D Sep 19 20:11:47 |R: haha, just what i thought of... the only things really essential! Sep 19 20:12:47 |R, +1 on that Sep 19 20:12:53 I want accelerometers so I can shake it like an etch-a-sketch to reboot Sep 19 20:13:02 lol Sep 19 20:13:08 <|R> haha Sep 19 20:13:27 i'd set mine to reboot whenever it gets thrown against a wall Sep 19 20:13:28 <|R> now all your contact are gone! time to redraw everything! fun! urhm.. hehe :) Sep 19 20:13:35 pay attention to unwanted reboot caused by some insects Sep 19 20:14:48 cb22: i would set mine to start playing high quality pr0n whenever i shake it ;) Sep 19 20:15:06 * hhf423_w yawns Sep 19 20:15:12 heh Sep 19 20:15:45 <|R> would the type vary if it was shaken up/down vs left/right? (ok i never asked this, please don't answer haha ;) Sep 19 20:16:04 actually, I want to play games like marble madness and labyrinth by tilting the phone, :) Sep 19 20:16:08 buzz hhf423_w !!! Sep 19 20:16:16 <|R> that would be fun :) Sep 19 20:16:24 hi Ghiottone Sep 19 20:16:24 <|R> the only thing scaring me right now is the battery life... Sep 19 20:16:30 hhf423_w, hey :) Sep 19 20:16:39 <|R> i'm used to my cell phone lasting 4-5 days with a very low use in my pocket... Sep 19 20:16:55 <|R> If i start doing ssh with the screen on etc, i'll have 3 hours :P Sep 19 20:16:57 Ghiottone: so did you play with the qtopia yet? very nice stuff Sep 19 20:17:18 hhf423_w, not yet, actually. I'm trying hard to create a dual boot configuration Sep 19 20:17:31 hhf423_w, but I'm having some issues with uboot and sd card :( Sep 19 20:17:50 Ghiottone: oh, dual boot, that would be interesting. probably most interesting with shared data Sep 19 20:18:18 Ghiottone: ubott does not like your partitioning? Sep 19 20:18:26 hhf423_w, I don't know Sep 19 20:18:47 hhf423_w, look at this lines I posted earlier http://pastebin.com/d732a6711 Sep 19 20:19:09 hhf423_w, I created 2 partitions, first ext2, second with qtopia image. Sep 19 20:19:25 hhf423_w, first one is read without problems by moko's kernel Sep 19 20:20:09 hmm Sep 19 20:21:04 Ghiottone: so did you change the bootargs to point to the second partition or what? Sep 19 20:21:29 yes Sep 19 20:21:38 and mtdparts Sep 19 20:21:46 mtdparts? Sep 19 20:21:49 what's that? Sep 19 20:22:09 Ghiottone: have a look here http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Bootloader#Environment Sep 19 20:22:42 there are multiple pointers to rootfs Sep 19 20:23:15 * hhf423_w just realizes that the console variable is also set twice and wonders why that is Sep 19 20:24:16 hhf423_w, I think that the kernel accepts more than a console= argument. Sep 19 20:24:55 hhf423_w, and also the mtdparts variable should not have any effect, as I'm putting both kernel and rootfs on the sd card Sep 19 20:25:13 hhf423_w, I would not touch that as I'm without a debug board Sep 19 20:25:17 yes, what I wonder about is that the "console=ttySAC0,115200", which one should remove, is in bootargs and bootargs_base Sep 19 20:26:38 Ghiottone: so maybe you need to extract the content from the qtopia image and put that manually on the second partition? Sep 19 20:27:11 hhf423_w, I just think that bootargs is the result of a bootcmd which sets the content of bootargs Sep 19 20:27:30 hhf423_w, I did it already with dd Sep 19 20:27:37 using a card reader Sep 19 20:27:47 from a linux box Sep 19 20:27:58 ye Sep 19 20:28:00 s Sep 19 20:28:49 and when you reverse the thing, like put the qtopia on first partition and ext2fs on second? does then the second work? Sep 19 20:29:10 did not check it actually Sep 19 20:30:16 two things are strange. that it hangs when I do ext2ls Sep 19 20:30:45 and that if I run uboot after boot it cannot initialize the card correctly and probably leaves it in a bad state Sep 19 20:34:46 haqhaha, qtopia has a cpu monitor... Sep 19 20:35:04 this is definitely my first phone with cpu monitor Sep 19 20:35:21 Ghiottone: I agree, thats is strange stuff Sep 19 20:35:37 Ghiottone: you could put a bug report in Sep 19 20:35:50 Ghiottone: or you could risk it and try a newer uboot Sep 19 20:36:17 Ghiottone: I would put a bug report in and so raise haralds attention. I have not seen him here for a long time Sep 19 20:36:51 which one are you using? Sep 19 20:37:00 roh, 19 august Sep 19 20:37:01 ive got http://people.openmoko.org/roh/u-boot-gta01bv4-1.2.0+git20070909+svnr2943-r0.bin tested on my phone Sep 19 20:38:36 roh: do you have in mind if any mmc/cdcard related stuff was fixed? Sep 19 20:38:56 I did not much follow the uboot changes harald did after august 19 Sep 19 20:40:05 maybe an svn log output could give some tip Sep 19 20:40:17 hahaha, this is fun, there is a PIM entry generator on qtopia. I now have 100 todos and 100 contacts Sep 19 20:41:29 this is quite fast Sep 19 20:41:33 hhf423_w: How does it feel to be both popular and busy? ;) Sep 19 20:41:34 hhf423_w i'm not sure. but there were bugfixes regarding nand partition erase i think Sep 19 20:42:03 CM: hahaha Sep 19 20:42:07 Okay, backing up via ssh, dd, scp seems to work much better. Sep 19 20:42:24 I try to build the linux-openmoko-devel kernel, but it failes when it tries to download this file: http://downloads.openmoko.org/sources/patches_svn.openmoko.org_.trunk.src.target.kernel_1_.tar.gz (it is not on the server). is this known? Sep 19 20:42:38 roh: nand stuff was fixed in the august 19 version, partition erase I have no idea Sep 19 20:43:13 roh, I updated to 19 aug to get the nand fixes Sep 19 20:43:20 roh: are you using and of the new uboot features (read after august 19) like gsm passthrough? Sep 19 20:43:58 hhf423_w ive played around with it Sep 19 20:45:13 ljp: ping Sep 19 20:45:45 can anyone point me to the svn url of uboot? Sep 19 20:45:55 fsck, now I have a 100 contacts and may need to delete them by hand... Sep 19 20:47:11 is there a howto on booting from microsd? Sep 19 20:47:51 hozer, http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Booting_from_SD Sep 19 20:48:47 boy, this is brilliant, I can send contacts from by k610 to the qtopia neo Sep 19 20:49:11 hrrm.. does qtopia come with a tar distribution, or just a nand flash image? Sep 19 20:49:20 flash image Sep 19 20:49:50 I spose I should just up and flash it Sep 19 20:50:22 hozer there is a tar also, but just flash it :-) Sep 19 20:51:00 someone with openembedded repo access here? Sep 19 20:53:22 thomasg: yes Sep 19 20:53:58 mwester: the openmoko-linux-devel kernel wants http://downloads.openmoko.org/sources/patches_svn.openmoko.org_.trunk.src.target.kernel_1_.tar.gz but it's not longer on the server it seems. could you take a look what happened? Sep 19 20:54:26 I guess this here is the right file: http://downloads.openmoko.org/sources/patches_svn.openmoko.org_.trunk.src.target.kernel__now.tar.gz Sep 19 20:55:31 the OM phone is quad-band, right? Sep 19 20:55:35 err, the neo Sep 19 20:55:37 hozer: yes Sep 19 20:55:52 "now" vs "1" seems like that might be a srcrev thing. Sep 19 20:56:17 okay. I am going to try to convince a local GSM provider that they should offer a 'branded' openmoko phone, and I made a mock-up website at http://imoko.org Sep 19 20:56:25 I wanted to make sure I had everything right ;) Sep 19 20:56:34 I'll take a look, but I'm not too familiar with how the svn/SRCREV stuff is to be handled, process-wise. Sep 19 20:56:42 shouldn't it download the patches from svn if it does not find them via http? Sep 19 20:57:00 wasn't there a bitbake command to resolv srcrev problems? Sep 19 20:59:40 Is any of the kernels / devel images on buildhost recommended? Sep 19 21:00:38 hozer, why a branded phone when the user can/will flash it? Sep 19 21:01:39 hozer: why would a GSM provider do advertise with "works with any SIM"? Sep 19 21:02:53 hhf423_w - The user would need jtag. ;o) Sep 19 21:03:02 ok, off to bed. talk to you all later Sep 19 21:03:30 bye hhf423_w Sep 19 21:03:30 the '1' as revision is afaik from here: http://www.openembedded.org:1081/revision/info/d6b23e81759fb2972944b275544f4969ce3412cc?q=viewmtn/revision/info/d6b23e81759fb2972944b275544f4969ce3412cc Sep 19 21:03:41 but i dunno exactly how that works/should work Sep 19 21:03:52 hhf423_w: sure, they *could* flash it, but how many *will* Sep 19 21:04:02 Elrond we don't do simlock. Sep 19 21:04:04 roh - Any recommendations on which kernel/image to use from buildhost? Sep 19 21:04:19 roh - Oh, right, simlock wont work. Sep 19 21:04:37 Elrond uh.. nope.. i use my selfbuilt ones... i can up a new one from today if you like Sep 19 21:04:43 roh: is that policy, or is the TI chipset unable to do it? Sep 19 21:04:56 wouldn't you rather be able to go to a kiosk in a mall and get your moko phone flashed with the lastest tested u-boot & kernel that does cryptographic checksums before executing any code to keep malicious code from being run? ;) Sep 19 21:05:16 SpeedEvil as far as i am concerned its policy. the calypso can do a lot of dirty things... ;) Sep 19 21:05:36 hozer: it matters what is defined as "malicious". :) Sep 19 21:05:56 Personally I want the freedom to do stuff to my phone - including lock it to a network and sell it to users at a discount, for a cut from the network. Sep 19 21:06:00 But... Sep 19 21:06:12 hozer that malicous code excuse does not work. thats fud from a industrie who did not want to hear the bang Sep 19 21:06:53 roh: I think that open source is really the only place that can actually pull of cryptographic code signatures Sep 19 21:07:10 if you can't see the source, you can't sign the binary Sep 19 21:07:22 hozer its still senseless. it just limits freedom and gives you no security. Sep 19 21:08:09 personally, I'd love to be able to set a boot option on my debian systems such that they will only run code signed by a debian maintainer's GPG key Sep 19 21:08:12 roh - It would give freedom, if the _user_ can do the signing. Sep 19 21:08:33 hozer - No, by my own key. Sep 19 21:08:54 yes, that too Sep 19 21:08:55 Elrond ack. but you can do that already. just build that into uboot and you are set. of course you could override it everytime with the jtag, so its senseless. Sep 19 21:08:59 the console's flashing cursor is showing through the qtopia screen Sep 19 21:09:00 hozer - BTW: Are there any kernel options to do this sort? Sep 19 21:09:10 (wouldnt happen with an Xserver ;-) Sep 19 21:09:13 not that I am currently aware of Sep 19 21:09:34 there's a lot of infrastructure you'd need to start with Sep 19 21:09:43 like making sure all your binaries are signed Sep 19 21:10:27 roh - I know the jtag problem. But that at least involves opening the neo, etc. Sep 19 21:10:35 Elrond http://people.openmoko.org/roh/ has a new image from today and a uboot i tested Sep 19 21:11:00 there is also a one week old build in that dir. Sep 19 21:11:00 roh - A uboot for Bv03 you tested? ;o) Sep 19 21:11:11 for bv4 Sep 19 21:11:25 I only have bv3. :) Sep 19 21:11:34 i can test one for bv02, but not for bv3 (don't have one) Sep 19 21:11:56 I'll stay with my 2040 u-boot. :) Sep 19 21:12:25 heh.. thats really buggy.. but have fun Sep 19 21:12:33 that one still eats chars on the serial Sep 19 21:12:45 I know. Sep 19 21:13:05 One has to type slowly. ;-) Sep 19 21:13:32 But I haven't yet seen a more recent u-boot which was tested on bv03 Sep 19 21:14:27 well.. then we need somebody with an bv3 who is either brave or has a debugboard Sep 19 21:15:20 thomasg: I don't think anything should be looking at those files for patches; I think they are all too old at this point (my copies are much more recent). I think something else may be wrong... Sep 19 21:15:45 roh: I nominate rwhitby :) :p Sep 19 21:15:59 (I think he has an 03) Sep 19 21:16:00 mwester - ;o) Sep 19 21:16:24 roh - I probably should acquire a debugboard and learn to use it. ;o) Sep 19 21:16:42 mwester: I did a mtn pull && mtn update, so I should have the most recent version Sep 19 21:16:45 roh - But couldn't convince myself to do exactly that. Sep 19 21:17:52 thomasg: As did I, but I think the problem is that an mtn pull/update does not contain enough information to help OE resolve which SVN version to fetch for the patches, it tries for "1" because (as roh pointed out) that's the default. Sep 19 21:18:05 ScaredyCat: pong Sep 19 21:18:17 got a mo? Sep 19 21:18:28 sure Sep 19 21:19:14 ljp: did you send your Neo to Madrid as well? Sep 19 21:19:22 I've built the qtopia image myself, but am having touchscreen issues... Sep 19 21:19:30 roh - Could you do "md5sum *.jffs2 u >MD5SUMS"? Sep 19 21:19:47 thomasg: So we can either provide a sane SVN version (such as 2937, which I think is the latest), but that anchors us to that version. Or we can try to tell OE to use the latest, but I'm not sure how well that works just yet. Sep 19 21:19:53 mwester: I took a look at the bitbake-file, but the syntax is too, erm, different, for me :) Sep 19 21:20:02 It's not in the bitbake file :( Sep 19 21:20:13 * hozer has ideas of reworking the OE/OM build system to put everything into git or mercurial , and then have gpg-signed changesets Sep 19 21:20:28 s/u/u*/ Sep 19 21:20:30 Elrond meant: roh - Cou*ld you do "md5sum *.jffs2 u >MD5SUMS"? Sep 19 21:20:35 It's all buried in the logic in the various bitbake code and add-on classes, and a set of config files in the "distro" directory. Sep 19 21:20:40 not this line? svn://svn.openmoko.org/trunk/src/target/kernel;module=patches;proto=http;name=patches \ Sep 19 21:21:23 That's just the prototype -- bitbake "fills in" the rest of the info as it runs. Sep 19 21:21:50 The "1" vs the "now" comes from a default and a config file Sep 19 21:22:45 thomasg: but the other problem is that on the server you pointed out, all the tarballs containing the patches are several months old, and 200KB smaller than the current one. Sep 19 21:23:04 So I don't think that it is fetching a tarball, at least not from that download location. Sep 19 21:23:08 zecke: the good one is in madrid. the v3 is here Sep 19 21:23:55 mwester: but that's the error I get :) Sep 19 21:24:44 Yeah. I think it's misleading -- sort of the last place it looks in an attempt to search for a means to satisfy the dependency. Sep 19 21:25:31 It'll take me a while to get my OE environment in a state where I can attempt to fetch the kernel stuff, I'll see what error I get when it gets there... Sep 19 21:25:44 check the file openembedded/conf/distro/include/sane-srcrevs.inc - Sep 19 21:26:05 that is where known good revisions for various packages are held Sep 19 21:26:18 also file sane-srcdates.inc which contains known-good dates. Sep 19 21:26:30 for svn co -r {20070703} for example Sep 19 21:26:52 ljp: I wonder if you have the Calypso Datasheet (by looking at the vendorplugin you wrote) Sep 19 21:27:06 i ahvent found out where bitbake logs its do_fetch activities, I dont think it does so. Sep 19 21:27:51 you can override the download revision by editing the bb file and adding ;rev=NNN to the SRC_URI, or by setting the SRCREV variable Sep 19 21:28:10 roh - *ping* Sep 19 21:28:16 zecke: we had already created a vendor plugin for a different TI modem and just used that, and added some Sep 19 21:28:37 we do have the daya sheet now Sep 19 21:28:40 data Sep 19 21:29:44 Elrond pong Sep 19 21:33:12 hrrm.. So, what if we built openmoko with uclibc instead of glibc... Sep 19 21:33:23 I wonder how much stuff would break Sep 19 21:33:30 roh - Ahh, thanks. :-) Sep 19 21:34:22 hozer: just port openwrt to the neo Sep 19 21:34:24 morning Sep 19 21:35:53 hozer: actually I think Angstrom builds with uclibc, so you could try that right now. Sep 19 21:37:31 Does anyone know a version of uicmoc3-native that compiles? Sep 19 21:37:40 nope Sep 19 21:37:44 but i fixed the current Sep 19 21:37:46 locally... Sep 19 21:38:03 n8 guys Sep 19 21:38:11 night Sep 19 21:38:19 nite roh Sep 19 21:38:23 hopscotch: what did you do to fix it? Sep 19 21:38:39 go to the directory where the linker fails Sep 19 21:38:44 open the .pro file Sep 19 21:38:54 add the word "network" to the QT += Sep 19 21:39:03 then rerun your build Sep 19 21:45:55 Hopscotch: it's not failing in the linker, it's failing in do_configure, and I don't know which of the myriad of .pro files might be controlling it at that point. Sep 19 21:46:08 ah, ok Sep 19 21:46:17 here it failed while linking... Sep 19 21:46:46 http://pastebin.com/m7daa58d8 Sep 19 21:47:32 not my bug, sorry Sep 19 21:47:41 mine was version 4.something Sep 19 21:48:16 Anyone else have an idea about uicmoc3? Sep 19 22:02:02 hi all, having an issue with my GTA01BV4 ... I logged in via SSH over USB-Ethernet, ran "ipkg update" and "ipkg upgrade" and it looks like it upgraded the kernel to 2.6.22.5-moko11+svnr2937-r2 but now the phone won't finish booting, it's still on the splash screen before the second screen appears saying it's starting the UI. Any ideas? Sep 19 22:02:02 iandouglas: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (and also SH1, SH1_FAQ, Neo1973, Developer_preview and Neo1973_Hardware#GTA01Bv4 pages) (Hopefully these links answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) Sep 19 22:02:37 i can still connect to the phone via USB-Ethernet, but not sure how to fix this Sep 19 22:02:59 iandouglas: Sounds like the gsmd problem Sep 19 22:03:44 which target actually rebuilds the jffs2 root image? Sep 19 22:03:55 iandouglas: The init sequence for the GSM chip isn't working reliably or something and hangs the Neo most of the time... or something of that sort Sep 19 22:04:28 abraxa: thanks, any ETA on a fix? Sep 19 22:04:51 is this the thing we're all waiting on TI to fix? Sep 19 22:05:08 No Sep 19 22:05:13 that's a completely seperate thing Sep 19 22:05:15 k Sep 19 22:05:16 Hi abraxa_! :) Sep 19 22:05:16 iandouglas: there are several workarounds, and a couple of proposed fixes already present for that lockup problem. Sep 19 22:05:23 the GSMd problem is fixed in software at the moment Sep 19 22:05:30 it's just not installed into the images Sep 19 22:05:31 Heya Elrond :) Sep 19 22:05:51 iandouglas: The easiest, since your phone won't boot at the moment, is to go into the uboot environment, and remove the "console" line from the boot arguments. Sep 19 22:06:12 !bug 788 Sep 19 22:06:27 !ombug 788 Sep 19 22:06:40 (blasted bot!) Sep 19 22:07:01 http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=788 <-- has more info. Sep 19 22:07:03 mwester: does changing the uboot environment require the debug board? (I don't have the developer's edition of the phone/etc) Sep 19 22:07:12 iandouglas: no Sep 19 22:07:25 iandouglas: trivial way is you connect over serial a thte uboot screen Sep 19 22:07:34 then do set env hfdoikfhoiwhg and thgen saveenv Sep 19 22:07:36 or something Sep 19 22:07:46 see [[bootloader]] Sep 19 22:08:04 iandouglas: you don't even have to make it permanent in uboot - if you can boot once, you can edit the /etc/init.d/gsmd file and use that fix instead -- but you have to be able to boot first. Sep 19 22:08:43 i can boot far enough to SSH into the phone via USB, and can make changes that way... I just don't have the GUI starting Sep 19 22:09:35 iandouglas: In that case, if you don't feel comfortable messing with uboot parameters, edit the /etc/init.d/gsmd file. Sep 19 22:10:02 mwester: thanks, looking though bug 788 now for the change Sep 19 22:10:11 The bug report URL will have info on the two "stty" lines that you'll need to add. Sep 19 22:10:57 iandouglas: the /etc/init.d/gsmd workaround is documented in comment #15 Sep 19 22:11:26 rockin' thanks! Sep 19 22:11:29 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Community_nominees_for_GTA02_P0]] [[Hardware:Neo1973:Alternate_Cases:Square_case]] [[Hardware:Neo1973:Alternate_Cases:Stylus_mount]] [[Gsmd/ru]] [[Talk:MokoMakefile]] [[Main_Page/ru]] Sep 19 22:11:42 * orpheus things it's going-home-time Sep 19 22:17:17 mwester: after applying the change, and trying to restart gsmd, I see "stty: /dev/ttySAC0: No such file or directory" Sep 19 22:18:38 hi, when do you expect final release? Sep 19 22:18:39 marek: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (and also SH1, SH1_FAQ, Neo1973, Developer_preview and Neo1973_Hardware#GTA01Bv4 pages) (Hopefully these links answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) Sep 19 22:18:57 iandouglas: either you don't have the same Neo that I have, or perhaps it's mistyped somewhere? Sep 19 22:19:06 gta01bv4 Sep 19 22:19:22 i'll try restarting the neo Sep 19 22:19:36 Marex: some months Sep 19 22:19:37 Hmm. Check to make sure that /dev/ttyS* exist... Sep 19 22:19:54 ttySA0 exists, just not ttySAC0 Sep 19 22:20:27 also have /dev/ttyS0 Sep 19 22:20:56 * mwester scratches his head Sep 19 22:21:24 iandouglas: are you sure you're ssh'd into the neo? What is the output from uname -a ? Sep 19 22:21:34 Linux fic-gta01 2.6.21.5-moko10 #1 PREEMPT Sun Aug 19 01:25:41 UTC 2007 armv4tl unknown Sep 19 22:21:55 hmm, it looks like the reboot reverted to the older kernel Sep 19 22:21:58 That's a bit older than I expected. Sep 19 22:22:25 Anyone have an idea for fixing uicmoc3-native? http://pastebin.com/m7daa58d8 Sep 19 22:22:29 It probably didn't load the modules, and that's why the ttySAC device is missing. Sep 19 22:24:09 developres, where should I put this bugreport, openmoko or qemu? http://openpaste.org/en/3179/ Sep 19 22:24:15 I mean the core file Sep 19 22:25:07 jseghers_: do you have try clean and rebuild this package? Sep 19 22:25:35 omg, I sucessfully built! Sep 19 22:25:53 jseghers_: uicmoc3 is looking for that directory, probably because it found something left over in the toolchain - usually when that happens, you have to wipe out the build/tmp directory and start over. Sep 19 22:26:02 fgau: multiple times. I've even deleted the tarball from sources...though I had to manually go get it again, the build script wouldn't pull it. Sep 19 22:26:13 jseghers_: My builds don't actually build qmake-native, it looks like... Sep 19 22:26:30 Do you have qmake installed on the host? Sep 19 22:26:41 jseghers_: pls pastbin the error log Sep 19 22:27:15 mwester: I have run into this both from my complete rebuild attempt from last night and also from the rebuild this morning since we were informed that there had been a glitch in the toolchain last night. Sep 19 22:27:22 fgau: http://pastebin.com/m7daa58d8 Sep 19 22:27:40 jseghers_: That would make me believe it is something in your host environment. Sep 19 22:27:56 mwester: qmake is installed on the host Sep 19 22:28:31 mwester: my host environment has not changed. I've been able to build up until earlier this week. Sep 19 22:29:36 I believe uicmoc3-native is pulled in by compiling qte-x11-free, which contains QVFB, which I need Sep 19 22:29:47 jseghers_: pastbin this home/moko2/build/tmp/work/i686-linux/uicmoc3-native-3.3.5-r3/temp/log.do_configure.32056 Sep 19 22:30:14 What is it you are building? openmoko-devel-image or something else (or more)? Sep 19 22:31:22 bbiab Sep 19 22:31:43 fgau: the entirety of that file is: cp: cannot stat `/home/moko2/build/tmp/staging/i686-linux/share/qmake/linux-oe-g++/*': No such file or directory Sep 19 22:33:07 mwester: openmoko-devel-image with phoneme-feature + QVFB + a couple of other packages. Sep 19 22:33:28 QVFB is contained in qt-x11-free Sep 19 22:34:55 hello! Sep 19 22:35:19 rockprincess: Hi Sep 19 22:35:30 hi jseghers_! Sep 19 22:36:08 i know the openmoko phone is still in development status, but will the phone be only available through the net, or will it be available in shops as well? Sep 19 22:36:08 rockprincess: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (and also SH1, SH1_FAQ, Neo1973, Developer_preview and Neo1973_Hardware#GTA01Bv4 pages) (Hopefully these links answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) Sep 19 22:36:45 thank you! Sep 19 22:36:58 please, any ideas about http://openpaste.org/en/3179/? Sep 19 22:37:19 rockprincess: at the current time, it's only available on the net... When it comes out, I'm sure FIC will try to get it into whatever channels it can. Sep 19 22:39:53 It will not come out in retail channels till at the least 6 months after it's consumer ready IMO. Sep 19 22:40:18 I would be surprised at next august personally. Sep 19 22:40:26 marek: I haven't built QEMU version for quite a while. Sep 19 22:41:07 rockprincess: where are you located? Sep 19 22:41:11 The 2007.2 startup sound is just too loud. Sep 19 22:41:25 thanks for your answers....so the end product (once it has finished the beta phase) will be priced at 450$ is that right? Sep 19 22:41:32 yes Sep 19 22:41:42 jseghers_, i'm located at austria (europe) Sep 19 22:41:44 jseghers_: where should I report this bug, openmoko or qemu? what do you using for emulation? Sep 19 22:42:56 is Phase2 slated for Nov? Sep 19 22:43:03 marek: I've got a phone... so I'm not doing emulation at the moment. Though building for x86 target and running in a chroot environment with Xephyr allows you to do almost everything emulation will do Sep 19 22:43:21 marek: as far as where to report it... I don't know. Sep 19 22:43:34 shipman: it's not been confirmed Sep 19 22:43:42 k Sep 19 22:43:54 there has been no official word other than 'october' Sep 19 22:43:55 jseghers_: ok, many thanks Sep 19 22:44:05 rockprincess: as far as we know, that's the pricing info... Sep 19 22:44:14 which is very unlikely to be met for end-user-purchasable hardware. Sep 19 22:44:39 jseghers_, i'm wondering if it will work smoothly with my sim card....should be no problem, right? Sep 19 22:44:48 yeah Sep 19 22:45:00 rockprincess: any GSM provider pretty much Sep 19 22:45:47 excellent :D Sep 19 22:47:35 rockprincess: yes, the only carrier that seems to have problems at the moment is AT&T...and since you're in Europe, that won't affect you :) Sep 19 22:47:47 i once read that openmoko is designed to suit linux users, sp there shouldn't be a problem connecting it to my linux box via bluetooth?! :D, i myself experience that pairing bluetooth devices on kde can be very messy (at least a year ago) but i think kdebluetooth might have already fixed that :D Sep 19 22:47:50 AT&T? Sep 19 22:47:53 really Sep 19 22:48:07 they don't use standard sim cards? Sep 19 22:48:57 something in the chain Sep 19 22:49:02 is slightly-not-gsm Sep 19 22:49:03 i take it that it won't be sim locked then? i can use whatever sim card (from any provider) i want?! Sep 19 22:49:08 ya Sep 19 22:49:35 rockprincess: That is correct! Sep 19 22:50:29 rockprincess: I know the bluetooth stuff is being worked on at the moment... I don't know what the real status of it is at the moment. Sep 19 22:50:42 but, yes, that should be the case Sep 19 22:51:12 marek: I get a segfault like you too, but I didn't used to. try an svn revision from a week or 2 ago and it will probably work Sep 19 22:52:52 marek: r2404 worked for me in the past Sep 19 22:53:37 is anyone working on OSX iSync support? Sep 19 22:53:42 this phone is looking like a very charming device, I'm looking forward to getting my hands on it, but only one more question (I'm sorry I didn't find an answer to it in the wiki) the neo1973 can only be charged/loaded via an usb cable? Sep 19 22:54:26 nod Sep 19 22:54:37 until power over bluetooth is perfected Sep 19 22:56:27 but still you'd need a computer to charge your phone, right? there's no extra charging tool that you can plug into your power outlet planned, is there? Sep 19 22:57:18 you can - eventually - charge it using any USBV charger Sep 19 22:57:21 you can - eventually - charge it using any USB charger Sep 19 22:58:06 ahhh thanks SpeedEvil, this looks good! Sep 19 22:59:00 rockprincess: they're trying to make it behave itself when plugged into a USB port, not to draw full power unless told it can. Problem is that wall chargers don't speak the protocol and so it never goes to fast charge. The folks working on it are trying to figure out the best compromise so that it will be able to charge from a dumb charger and yet not overdraw from unpowered hubs Sep 19 23:00:12 rockprincess: and even now, if you fully power down (i.e. pull the battery and then put it back in and don't touch the power button) you can slow-charge it with a dumb charger. Sep 19 23:03:48 that'd be a good idea, jseghers_! although probably most people who will use this phone will charge it through the computer, but sometimes there Sep 19 23:04:01 that'd be a good idea, jseghers_! although probably most people who will use this phone will charge it through the computer, but sometimes there's only the wall chargers solution...h.mmm Sep 19 23:08:07 i'll post a blog about neo1973 on my blog now :D Sep 19 23:08:26 things are starting to get interesting with Qtopia creating a port for the OM Sep 19 23:08:53 There's an understatement! Sep 19 23:09:19 well its good because now there is competition on the OM Sep 19 23:10:39 Increased visibility to users, increased number as well as diversity of developers... all good. Sep 19 23:11:13 also means more people working on the base code ie kernel level to make things run smoothly Sep 19 23:11:57 I like QT to be honest I find GTK a bit messy Sep 19 23:13:31 SpeedEvil: ping Sep 19 23:13:49 well another up side is Skype might be ported to the OM Sep 19 23:14:33 * mwester uses Gizmo Sep 19 23:14:48 (but not on the Neo - yet!) Sep 19 23:15:01 Isn't Skype rather CPU heavy? Sep 19 23:15:27 Lynet no, on my N800 with a slower cpu than the OM it works fine Sep 19 23:15:45 linux_galore: Ah, nice. Sep 19 23:16:27 the version of skype used on portable devices isnt exactly the same as the PC variants but works very much the same Sep 19 23:16:31 increased competition isn't the interesting part.. any time two people support the same hardware, the knowlege gained by comparing and contrasting their work is very interesting. :) Sep 19 23:16:59 Of course, I crashed today. ;o) Sep 19 23:17:16 linux_galore: Voice only, right? No video? Sep 19 23:17:18 Elrond: sux to be you Sep 19 23:17:30 Lynet: yep only voice Sep 19 23:18:18 Lynet: there is no video skype client for Linux, Gizmo and Google have one in the works though Sep 19 23:19:38 anyway back to work Sep 19 23:20:32 dare say as soon as Gizmo puts out a client with video Skype will soon follow rather than loose mind share Sep 19 23:24:31 wonder if there is any talk of the GTA03 yet Sep 19 23:24:57 ie 3G please Sep 19 23:25:54 5" LCD, built in toilet paper dispenser heh Sep 19 23:27:34 9megapixel camera with 15x optical zoom? Sep 19 23:27:54 linux_galore - What do you mean by "sux to be you" ? Sep 19 23:28:36 Mek - That's 1kg of glas. ;o) Sep 19 23:28:45 hovercraft! Sep 19 23:28:52 (eels optional) Sep 19 23:29:34 Elrond: its humour Sep 19 23:29:37 subspace communcator!! Sep 19 23:30:18 linux_galore - *g* Sep 19 23:30:28 dont forget the important thing, 10 Gigawat pulse laser Sep 19 23:30:32 Enugh with this UMTS and GSM I say, say yes to Tachyons. Sep 19 23:30:41 s/Enoug/Enough Sep 19 23:31:01 When you really need to make that phone call yesterday! Sep 19 23:31:13 the ultimate laser pointer, Sep 19 23:32:08 make an Iraqi edition with a bullet proof case Sep 19 23:33:19 what would be cool would be a programmable keyless entry (for vehicles) in there Sep 19 23:33:29 if there is such a thing Sep 19 23:33:58 Anyway. Good night people. Sep 19 23:34:26 and you not a real asian electronics manufacturer until you have made an all pink Hello Kitty version Sep 19 23:34:36 * linux_galore ducks Sep 19 23:34:46 iWant Sep 19 23:35:15 How does one determine the best u-boot version to use? Sep 19 23:35:32 Something more realistic would be a complete BT stack. I want to use my phone as a wireless keyboard/mouse, f.ex. Sep 19 23:35:55 use the accelerometers to use it as a mouse! :P Sep 19 23:36:00 or a wireless kb/mouse on your phone Sep 19 23:36:18 shipman: should be able to do that anyway Sep 19 23:36:25 ah Sep 19 23:36:37 I mean that seriously. BT is so underused on phones today compared to what it can be used for. Sep 19 23:36:42 yeah Sep 19 23:36:49 especially verizon phones Sep 19 23:36:50 shipman: you can buy a Bluetooth nano mouse Sep 19 23:36:57 yeah Sep 19 23:37:02 ie really small Sep 19 23:37:14 Anyone out there with any u-boot knowledge? Sep 19 23:37:41 shipman: also the USB port on the OM can host devices Sep 19 23:37:46 cool Sep 19 23:38:43 shipman: best to look at the OM as a really small computer with bluetooth and gsm hardware running Linux Sep 19 23:38:52 cool Sep 19 23:39:16 shipman: as of the GTA02 next month we also have WIFi Sep 19 23:39:40 The Wifi sold me on it Sep 19 23:40:14 shipman: yeah, I need wifi because Im not a BT fan Sep 19 23:40:53 I need wifi because of wifi hotspots Sep 19 23:40:53 bt hotspots not so much Sep 19 23:40:53 ;-) Sep 19 23:41:42 i can't wait for dual mode wifi/gsm Sep 19 23:41:59 do we know what browser will ship in the GTA02? Sep 19 23:42:07 no. Sep 19 23:42:14 k Sep 19 23:42:35 GTA02 initial sales - probably december - will not have complete end-user software on likely. Sep 19 23:43:23 hmmmm, really? Sep 19 23:43:51 I thought they were going for consumer product release with GTA02 Sep 19 23:44:00 or will it just be the initial batch Sep 19 23:45:36 that lacks the end-user software Sep 19 23:47:33 just initial batch Sep 19 23:47:42 oh ok Sep 20 00:03:50 cool use of accelerometers, shaking ants off your phone. :) http://www.iphonestalk.com/iphone-ants/ Sep 20 00:06:35 :-O Sep 20 00:07:37 iPhone talk! blasphemy Sep 20 00:07:46 <|R> haha Sep 20 00:08:34 BT is great for home and work - much less power draw than wifi Sep 20 00:09:02 true, but less public open hotspot-ness Sep 20 00:09:08 absolutely Sep 20 00:09:54 home/work free BT, public sparse wifi, costly everywhere GPRS is the hierarchy I use. Sep 20 00:11:10 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Main_Page/it]] [[User:Fradeve11]] [[Artwork/it]] [[Talk:MokoMakefile]] Sep 20 00:15:02 hey rwhitby Sep 20 00:15:06 do many people use BT for internet use? Sep 20 00:15:30 as opposed to wi-fi Sep 20 00:16:12 rwhitby, what about the patch for the subversion trunk of openmoko, did you receive it? Sep 20 00:16:29 rwhitby, is it working now or does it need something else? Sep 20 00:19:54 shipman: I do, on the Treo650 Sep 20 00:19:59 (and on the Neo now too) Sep 20 00:20:10 :-O Sep 20 00:20:11 Ghiottone: I just haven't got to it yet. Sep 20 00:20:41 dund for the treo650, pand for the neo1973. both running on a usb bluetooth adapter on an nslu2. Sep 20 00:20:50 (openwrt) Sep 20 00:21:19 I should be able to make the neo automatically connect to home and work BT networks when in range. Sep 20 00:21:35 rwhitby, ok. then I'll wait for a reply before getting back to this subject Sep 20 00:22:10 and since BT is so much lower power when idle than wifi, i should be able to remain connected permanently for most of the 24 hour day (home/work) Sep 20 00:22:21 cool Sep 20 00:26:24 oh my Sep 20 00:26:25 http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20070919-apples-fight-against-iphone-unlocks-may-result-in-expensive-bricks.html Sep 20 00:30:22 "have reason to believe". Depending on what the reason is, it might just be guesswork. Sep 20 00:30:36 true Sep 20 00:30:46 just the risk of buying closed hardware Sep 20 00:34:40 grr. my bluetooth dongle is missing. Sep 20 00:34:47 oh my Sep 20 00:35:18 For those who were trying to help figure what was wrong with uicmoc3-native earlier (and for anyone who finds this log searching) the resolution was to rebuild qmake-native. Then uicmoc3-native builds OK. Sep 20 00:36:04 This was on a complete rebuild where the image includes qt-x11-free (in order to get qvfb). Sep 20 00:37:27 shipman: There is a webkit-based browser for OpenMoko already: http://scap.linuxtogo.org/files/2c059c58e8bbecc1d23b3644765e5b3b.png - I would assume that this will ship Sep 20 00:37:57 oh, ok Sep 20 00:37:58 nice Sep 20 00:38:21 with Flash? Sep 20 00:38:30 I don't think there's Flash for ARM Sep 20 00:38:33 oh Sep 20 00:38:35 right Sep 20 00:38:42 * shipman slaps himself Sep 20 00:39:35 Maybe Silverlight... *runs from the angry mob* Sep 20 00:39:41 :-O Sep 20 00:39:50 silverlight looks cool Sep 20 00:40:17 is silverlight it's own protocol, or does it work with existing flash sites? Sep 20 00:40:33 how come I see so much german stuff in regards to openmoko? ;) Sep 20 00:40:35 ::::curiosity::::: Sep 20 00:40:36 It's based on .NET so totally not compatible with Flash Sep 20 00:40:49 however, webkit now supports svg Sep 20 00:40:52 shipman: http://www.microsoft.com/silverlight/faq.aspx Sep 20 00:41:33 I'd say that gnash & probably swfdec will run Sep 20 00:41:37 but just how many sites will use silverlight Sep 20 00:41:47 dkr: Cause like... 75% of the core team is German and a ton of OM volunteers are German, too :) Sep 20 00:41:53 depends how popular it'll get Sep 20 00:42:06 dkr: the germans are conquering Sep 20 00:42:06 i think silverlight will gain quite some Sep 20 00:42:24 lets hope ppl wont abuse it like flash Sep 20 00:42:33 wish they of course will Sep 20 00:43:07 abraxa_: ah, i figured it was something like that. but didn't see anything obvious like "Openmoko AG" instead of "Openmoko Inc." :) Sep 20 00:43:30 they don't even teach flash anymore at my university in the viscom department Sep 20 00:43:33 :-O Sep 20 00:43:59 correction : my old university Sep 20 00:44:25 shipman: Maybe they realized that closed-source platform-dependent crap isn't getting anywhere Sep 20 00:44:30 flash is a bit ehm... useless :>, i dont like it Sep 20 00:44:32 true Sep 20 00:44:55 though it has cut down to the jobs I can apply to in about half Sep 20 00:45:12 as everyone wants someone trained in flash :-/ Sep 20 00:45:34 you just add it to your skills Sep 20 00:46:12 usally if you're working at a decent company they'll just use it to use a certain font Sep 20 00:48:54 there's lots of love for flash on samsung's website Sep 20 00:49:00 and lots of hate for samsung's website here Sep 20 00:49:04 :/ Sep 20 00:49:33 oh yeah, Nokia's is pretty bad too Sep 20 00:49:44 not samsung bad, but bad Sep 20 00:49:56 websites are turning into DVD menus Sep 20 00:51:50 Nokia has an excuse - sort-of. Sep 20 00:52:07 It is intended to be pretty over content. Sep 20 00:52:20 Samsungs semiconductor website is pretty much information only. Sep 20 00:52:33 haha, true Sep 20 00:53:07 Which is why you get a flash thing that takes 10 seconds to load on some computers, and displays a 1 line table. Sep 20 00:53:22 yeah Sep 20 00:53:43 believe it or not some people only have access to dialup Sep 20 00:54:11 in which package is the head program? Sep 20 00:54:40 I think it's in busybox Sep 20 00:54:55 or coreutils if not Sep 20 00:57:08 * cesarb gives up fighting with disk space and allocates his 11045 remaining PEs (4MB each) to a new LV to be used only for building stuff Sep 20 00:58:55 If OM ever takes more than 43GB to build, I'm in trouble Sep 20 01:04:45 cesarb: there are 1TB disks available... :) Sep 20 01:04:53 Not free. Sep 20 01:04:57 jseghers_: mine has only a fourth of that Sep 20 01:05:23 jseghers_: and it's less than an year old Sep 20 01:05:37 jseghers_: already full of junk Sep 20 01:05:39 cesarb: just saying... that there *are* other solutions :) Sep 20 01:05:55 cesarb: well, yes, I suppose with a 1 Sep 20 01:06:09 er.. a 1TB it would also quickly fill with junk Sep 20 01:06:34 jseghers_: well, I had 1/4 of my disk unallocated (I was planning on using it for a couple of VMs in the future, but ubuntu's xen crashed on x86-64) Sep 20 01:06:49 :) Sep 20 01:06:56 jseghers_: so, since a build dir is a pretty temporary thing, why not? that's, after all, the beauty of using lvm2... Sep 20 01:07:16 * cesarb just had to be cautious not to forget the all-important "noatime" Sep 20 01:07:52 :) Sep 20 01:08:18 $ cat /proc/mounts | wc -l Sep 20 01:08:20 19 Sep 20 01:08:32 $ cat /proc/mounts | grep ^/dev | wc -l Sep 20 01:08:35 6 Sep 20 01:09:07 distros these days seem to really love adding more and more special filesystems... Sep 20 01:14:20 Amazing. openmoko-today eats 8% CPU on the Neo even when idle Sep 20 01:14:48 abraxa_: well, it does that today. Did it do that yesterday? Sep 20 01:14:52 (bad pun, sorry) Sep 20 01:15:04 ;) Sep 20 01:16:34 Man, this looks bad. 25% CPU for PulseAudio alone when using gstreamer... Sep 20 01:17:03 * cesarb prepares to try out trolltech's in the real device (yeah, I know I'm late...) Sep 20 01:25:27 Anyone know where the source files live in the build structure? I'm looking for files, but I all see are bz2 and patch files. What does one need to do to get a normal source tree? Sep 20 01:25:44 Casten: they are in build/tmp/worl Sep 20 01:25:48 Can't a brother get a .c file? Sep 20 01:25:48 Source files of what? The packages to be built? Sep 20 01:25:50 s/worl/work/ Sep 20 01:25:50 cesarb meant: Casten: they are in build/tmp/work Sep 20 01:27:01 Yeah, the sources of the packages Sep 20 01:27:36 all I see are run.* files and log files Sep 20 01:28:13 This build structure is very different than anything I have worked with. Sep 20 01:28:42 Casten: let me guess, you are using rm_work, which removes the build files after building the package... Sep 20 01:29:05 hmm, that would be in the config? Let me see Sep 20 01:29:07 Casten: read up on gentoo's portage or freebsd's ports, the phylosophy (sp?) is quite similar Sep 20 01:29:21 Casten: and the are documented, unlike bitbake ;-) Sep 20 01:29:44 (in fact, IIRC bitbake is inspired by gentoo's portage, which is inspired by freebsd's ports) Sep 20 01:29:55 ah, yes, that is in the conf, thanks cesarb Sep 20 01:30:28 so if I want to see the source for a package, I can just remove that and rebuild the package, right? Sep 20 01:31:26 Yep Carsten Sep 20 01:31:27 Casten: if all you want is to see the source, yeah, that's enough (in fact, my build tree is so old it doesn't even have that to begin with; it's added only on new trees) Sep 20 01:31:28 Casten* Sep 20 01:31:47 Casten: btw, I dislike rm_work... precisely because I do want to see the source Sep 20 01:32:01 I can understand that. Sep 20 01:56:42 Did anyone manage to use qtopia's onscreen keyboard? Sep 20 01:57:08 cesarb: I played with it for a few minutes... You can almost use your fingers. Sep 20 01:57:42 sagaci1: I cannot make it type anything (tried in the field where you set the bluetooth name), and worse of all, I cannot see how to backspace Sep 20 01:59:38 It also seems to have some confusing predictive typing... Sep 20 01:59:59 backspace is a right to left stroke Sep 20 02:00:22 it puts a word for you to click on Sep 20 02:00:51 and then to change to caps or symbols, use an up or down motion on th eleft or right side of the keypd Sep 20 02:01:03 ljp Thanks for the tips! Sep 20 02:01:15 no worries Sep 20 02:01:16 I just tried to type "asdf" and it converted it to "were" (wtf?) with options "adds", "seer", "were", "serf", and "weed" Sep 20 02:01:33 my neo allways hangs at reboot (end of the loader bar when it shuts down). should i update to the latest uboot?? mine is still the one it shipped with Sep 20 02:01:36 (this keyboard manages to be way more confusing than OM's) Sep 20 02:01:37 press and hold on a letter Sep 20 02:01:54 its better once you know how. its easy to learn Sep 20 02:02:00 ljp: ouch. I would NEVER guess that's the trick Sep 20 02:02:10 ya not very obvious Sep 20 02:02:18 milo_, you'll need to take the console=/dev/ttySAC0... field out of your boot arguments in the uboot. Sep 20 02:02:41 hmmm lunch time Sep 20 02:02:41 ljp: and how in the world did it decide to "predictive type" "asdf" to "were"? the keys are like NOT next to each other... Sep 20 02:02:57 not real sure... :) Sep 20 02:03:00 bbiaw Sep 20 02:03:01 cesarb: most common four letter word? Sep 20 02:03:11 or at least clean four letter word Sep 20 02:05:24 sagaci1: thanks. how to do that? with minicom? or would the latest uboot image fix it as well.. thought of updating it because allways have to erase rootfs when flashing cause uboot is to old? will it maybe fix both problems, i mean the new uboot? Sep 20 02:07:18 ljp: ok, now I can at least type something (but this keyboard is as horrible as most phone keyboards I've seen). Now, how do I type the bluetooth name of the device, if the keyboard covers it so I cannot see what I'm mistyping, and pressing the green arrow closes the dialog? Sep 20 02:07:45 milo_: I don't know. I still haven't updated uboot either. Yes, with minicom or cu or whatever. Sep 20 02:08:23 milo_: it's not in the uboot image, it's on the uboot environment Sep 20 02:08:54 milo_: it's a whole another partition (and you don't even have to save; you can edit it in memory, boot, and the change will be gone next boot) Sep 20 02:10:42 great, will try that. one more question :D is there a url for the gllin binary? lost it Sep 20 02:11:11 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Neo1973_Battery]] [[Artwork/it]] Sep 20 02:15:08 /whois jdl Sep 20 02:15:11 gah, stupid space Sep 20 02:18:22 The GTA02 wiki page has an estimated timeline that looks like December for general availability of the hardware. Other places claim October. Has the Dec. date been authoritatively confirmed or denied yet? Sep 20 02:18:50 retracile: See the corresponding talk page Sep 20 02:18:54 retracile: i guess December is a shoot-in-the-dark page Sep 20 02:19:03 s/page/tentative date/ Sep 20 02:19:04 bedboi meant: retracile: i guess December is a shoot-in-the-dark tentative date Sep 20 02:19:41 Is "Not Connected to network" a Sim based issue? Or are there other possible causes? Sep 20 02:19:45 abraxa_: I read through that, but it sounded like people making educated guesses without being "in the know". Sep 20 02:19:57 retracile: That's how it is. Sep 20 02:20:49 retracile: yep, it is all about guesses. Sep 20 02:21:06 tRubl: it can also be because the SIM's network is GSM850, which is not working for some reason Sep 20 02:22:09 tRubl: fortunately, most of the world doesn't use GSM850 Sep 20 02:23:07 cesarb: you mean 850 support is currently broke? Sep 20 02:24:36 tRubl: nobody has managed to make it work, and FIC/Openmoko has been silent on the issue (but then, they have been prone to long hiatuses followed by grandiose announcements) Sep 20 02:25:12 * technil did write them an e-mail with the straight question Sep 20 02:25:13 tRubl: current suspicions around people in this channel is not that it's broken, merely disabled Sep 20 02:25:31 * retracile is just anxiously waiting for the GTA02 hardware to order one, and wishing for news. :/ Sep 20 02:25:42 ok, when I first got my phone and flashed it with the images linked from the wiki, I was able to make a call (using a 7-11 Speakout sim), but I haven't been able to for the last several weeks. I'll have to try my tmo sim then, thanks. Sep 20 02:25:57 * technil notes that the neo1973 is not FCC approved for the 850 band Sep 20 02:26:07 oh, gotcha Sep 20 02:26:18 * cesarb is just anxiously waiting for a working gsmd (or a qtopia which weren't lacking in basics such as a terminal) Sep 20 02:27:19 looks like something serious just happened Sep 20 02:27:32 Hey! I showered this morning guys! Sep 20 02:27:54 a terminal is not a basic requirement of a phone Sep 20 02:28:34 hmm netsplit Sep 20 02:28:50 on the qtopia topic, does it have either dropbear or openssh? Sep 20 02:29:03 yes, its the same distribution Sep 20 02:30:04 ljp: a terminal is a basic requirement for hacking on the phone... not all things can be done on the guy yet Sep 20 02:30:09 ljp: ah, just the gui parts and some apps are switched out Sep 20 02:30:16 * cesarb points to the fact that you have to do an alsactl to get sound as an example Sep 20 02:30:18 thats what ssh is for Sep 20 02:30:49 ljp: ssh requires a computer nearby. You cannot do it on the ferry or on the bus, unless you want to risk opening a laptop Sep 20 02:31:07 cesarb: thats because something broke in Qtopia between the time I was on parental leave Sep 20 02:31:10 ljp: of course, a qtopia ssh client would work just as fine ;-) Sep 20 02:32:08 ljp: jumping in here...how do i backspace or enter numbers using the onscreen keyboard? Sep 20 02:32:15 * technil sees himself ssh to the neo via the old faithful SL-5500 to change the alsa state Sep 20 02:33:46 Allot of new funky hand held UMPC's being released I notices, the new Fuji U1010 apparently is sold out in HK Sep 20 02:33:57 to backspace is a right to left motion. to get symbols, caps or numbers is an up or down motion on the left or right of the kaypad Sep 20 02:34:04 *noticed Sep 20 02:34:19 ahh..thx Sep 20 02:34:29 not very obvious at this state Sep 20 02:34:33 :) Sep 20 02:34:42 the Fuji U1010 apparently can run Linux and the screen can be twisted around to make it a PDA Sep 20 02:35:17 it found my 4gigs of ogg files...but no player, heh...maybe some rudimentary player by next snapshot? Sep 20 02:35:24 there is also a Fuji U800 model for those on a tight budget Sep 20 02:35:40 saw the list about helix, gstreamer is what i use anyways Sep 20 02:36:03 although, mpd might be kinda cool Sep 20 02:37:52 GTA01 should have enough grunt to play an avi file (N770 has a slower cpu and works fine) Sep 20 02:38:26 linux_galore: GTA01 has too high resolution for its own good Sep 20 02:38:44 funny too...the N800 has a less capable video processor which makes it less then the 770 Sep 20 02:38:50 linux_galore: people have been saying things about halving the resolution when playing video Sep 20 02:39:17 cesarb: well the N770 has a screen with higher res Sep 20 02:39:43 840x489 Sep 20 02:39:55 oops Sep 20 02:40:30 800x480 Sep 20 02:40:55 anyone know how to restore a directory under build/tmp/work/arm4t*/*gone* ? I tried cleaning the project, updating, etc. to no avail. **** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Sep 20 02:41:57 2007 **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Sep 20 02:42:11 2007 Sep 20 02:42:22 have the moko devs or the pr guys gone dark? Sep 20 02:42:35 i think they started dark. :) Sep 20 02:42:56 i know ninjas are cool and all... Sep 20 02:43:14 jaebird: they are probably at yet another congress **** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Sep 20 02:44:12 2007 **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Sep 20 02:44:35 2007 Sep 20 02:44:43 i would love to some response of one-up-manship! Sep 20 02:45:57 looks like i will be using my Nokia phone for another year heh Sep 20 02:46:11 my gsmd is still not reliable, at least it doesn't seem to be with the dialer/panel Sep 20 02:47:30 Casten: make build-package-foo Sep 20 02:47:55 yeah, that doesn't do it for me Sep 20 02:48:20 Does it execute do_unpack? Sep 20 02:48:48 If not then you need to remove the stamp(s) build/tmp/stamps/arm*/foo.do_* Sep 20 02:49:10 I just removed the package under sources and it looks like it's moving ahead now Sep 20 02:49:32 ah, that's a good tip too, I'll have to remember that, thanks Sep 20 02:49:50 wow...on ebay neo with dev kit went for 305.00US and plain neo went for 338.00US 7 days later Sep 20 02:50:00 any hints where to find gllin driver online? Sep 20 02:50:19 hmm, just stopped again, I'll try the stamps Sep 20 02:50:20 milo_: EABI or OABI? Sep 20 02:50:47 OABI Sep 20 02:50:58 That's still in development unfortunately Sep 20 02:51:02 err Sep 20 02:51:11 n/m, EABI is Sep 20 02:51:12 * technil wishes his motorola hadn't died 2 weeks ago.. Sep 20 02:51:32 :( and EABI for the meanwhile? Sep 20 02:51:45 err OABI :D Sep 20 02:52:20 * jaebird holds back from throwing his motorola against a wall on a daily basis. Sep 20 02:53:31 abraxa: That didn't help either. Sep 20 02:54:11 Casten: Can you copy your command and screen output to a pastebin? Sep 20 02:54:18 will do Sep 20 02:55:24 pastebin.ca/704141 Sep 20 02:57:09 abraxa_: no tinyurl for the binary? i'm lost.. need my position right now or will be parched by to tomorrow ;) Sep 20 02:57:15 * milo_ kidding Sep 20 02:57:39 ... silence ... Sep 20 02:58:19 Casten: Is your problem the failed compile or something else? Sep 20 02:59:02 failed compile Sep 20 02:59:09 Ah Sep 20 02:59:34 And milo_, you might wanna have a look at /nickserv's registration feature Sep 20 02:59:36 u-boot didn't break recently did it? **** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Sep 20 02:59:57 2007