**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Sep 28 02:59:56 2007 Sep 28 02:59:56 I got away with it because of Murphy's law -- I have not only a debug board, but time to figure out how to recover the device this weekend, should it fail. Therefore, of course the u-boot upgrade will proceed perfectly, in accordance with the rules of Murphy. Sep 28 03:01:02 if I ever meet that Murphy... Sep 28 03:04:59 Can anyone tell me what avahi-daemon does for us on this phone? Sep 28 03:06:36 mwester: probably the same thing as on a desktop? (i.e. service announcements on the wired network, link-local IP autoconfiguration on the wired network...) Sep 28 03:06:58 mwester: it's probably also used to locate printers or something like that Sep 28 03:13:26 cesarb: Except that the gta01 has no network at boot time, so all the blasted daemon does is waste time until it times out. I disabled it. Sep 28 03:13:41 * mwester don't need no stinkin' avahi daemon. Sep 28 03:16:17 mwester: What's the timeout period? Sep 28 03:17:09 It feels like 10 seconds or more, when you're looking at it. Sep 28 03:17:18 So, 1 sec? Sep 28 03:17:22 :p Sep 28 03:17:28 :D Sep 28 03:17:44 Disable the splash screen, you'll see all sorts of stuff that's just slowing the boot. Sep 28 03:18:40 Well the clear solution there is to simply create a more pleasing splash screen Sep 28 03:19:06 Right. If you enjoy the boot screen, you won't mind how long it takes, right? Sep 28 03:19:07 Yep. I'm not a fan of the brown and black Sep 28 03:19:20 Just change it up once in a while Sep 28 03:21:06 Ok, call that panel the "heisen-panel". How do you fix something that works fine whenever you try to debug it? Sep 28 03:21:31 Ah. Love those. Probably a race condition. Sep 28 03:21:35 mwester, hit and trial Sep 28 03:21:52 mwester, alternatively use some maths Sep 28 03:22:09 Well, Elrond tracked it down to the battery applet that segfaults the panel. That helps a lot. Sep 28 03:22:41 I'm just after a phone that boots with the basic services running, each and every time. Sep 28 03:23:01 I think the panel is the only remaining flakey item. Sep 28 03:23:38 bbiab Sep 28 03:23:55 mwester: I wish I was at your level. The gsm is the most flakey on my phone. :( Sep 28 03:54:00 Dumb question, does the base version of the Neo come with the boards/cables I would need to load software and the OS onto it? Sep 28 03:55:27 Jon_yoosic: You can use simple USB cables, one of which comes with the Neo Sep 28 03:55:31 base version Sep 28 03:56:27 Ok. I knew the big kit came with that, but I wanted to be sure that the base model would be useful to me as an app developer. Sep 28 04:00:40 Jon_yoosic: if you want to hack on the bootloader, the debug board is a necessity -- if you want to do kernel work, it's very useful -- if you want to do user-space applications, you really don't need more than the base phone. Sep 28 04:01:19 I'm aimed at user space where WiFi is a must, and GPS would be really nice Sep 28 04:01:47 2.5 or 3.5mm headphone jack? Sep 28 04:01:53 mwester: Yay! Got the gsm registered Sep 28 04:02:33 mwester: I just removed the battery applet and added gsmd stop/start to the session. Sep 28 04:02:47 congrats Sep 28 04:03:35 found it 2.5 Sep 28 04:10:56 good chatting with everyone. digging into OpenMoko a little more made me less angry about crappy cell providers in the US! Sep 28 04:10:59 Goodnight! Sep 28 04:10:59 Why do I keep getting network registration messages? Sep 28 04:11:34 sagacis, about registering your nick? Sep 28 04:11:47 No, gsmd Sep 28 04:28:16 'night. I'll try using moko gsm tomorrow. Sep 28 05:03:48 moin Sep 28 06:30:08 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Devirginator]] [[Mokostat]] Sep 28 07:19:36 good morning Sep 28 07:21:15 good morning, Hopscotch Sep 28 07:44:34 l Sep 28 07:45:57 good morning Sep 28 07:46:26 moin Sep 28 07:46:36 quick question: where could I find a list of the devices on which OpenMoko actually runs? Sep 28 07:51:04 Fradeve, FAQ, maybe? http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ Sep 28 07:52:37 mbuf: yeah --- my morning fault :) Sep 28 07:52:40 mbuf: thanks Sep 28 07:52:51 Fradeve, time for coffee? Sep 28 07:54:57 mbuf: probably :D Sep 28 08:30:29 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[P1_Owners]] [[Wish_List]] Sep 28 08:55:16 roh: jouston replied again with a boilerplate message, can you please make sure he's trying to bill the VISA card we submitted upon HIS request Sep 28 08:58:47 so early december in best case, that's good, might get a gta02 for xmas then ;) Sep 28 08:59:10 i do think you guys should take pre order to know how big the initial run has to be Sep 28 09:02:07 buz: still didn't say whether mid-Dec was for P0, P1 or P2 GTA02 devices. Sep 28 09:02:15 (so I sent a follow-up question to the list) Sep 28 09:05:42 says shipping Sep 28 09:05:45 that would be p1 at least Sep 28 09:06:55 but i did send a followup myseelf ;) Sep 28 09:13:40 gday Sep 28 09:52:59 * cb22 reads his email: thanks roh! Sep 28 11:31:04 hi... Sep 28 11:31:06 ... is there anybody who use the Mokomakefile with Ubuntu 7.10? Sep 28 11:38:50 zefanja: well.. its not released yet Sep 28 11:40:38 I think I saw people on this channel last month with problems compiling on 7.10... might already be all fixed, however Sep 28 11:53:32 cesarb: Are you always here? Sep 28 11:54:06 sagacis: nope... I'm going to work in a few minutes, and will come back only at night Sep 28 11:54:15 sagacis: but I let my client idling and logging ;-) Sep 28 11:54:40 :) Sep 28 11:54:41 Ah, just when I'm here. I do the same, but I don't usually respond in the morning. Well, it's late (uct). See ya later. Sep 28 12:22:41 umm... replying to orders@openmoko.com with [rt.internal.openmoko.bla #bla] subject is ok and will be handled by humans, right? Sep 28 12:42:05 6,3 http://st-pitch.miniville.fr/env Sep 28 12:42:09 URL http://st-pitch.miniville.fr/env Sep 28 12:42:28 ugh Sep 28 12:42:40 ... Sep 28 12:43:26 what a idiot Sep 28 12:43:44 http://openmoko.org - Neo1973 GTA01 on sale at https://direct.openmoko.com || Do not ask Sep 28 12:43:45 spammed a bunch of other channels aswell :/ Sep 28 12:43:55 lol Sep 28 12:44:09 :) Sep 28 12:44:27 *sigh* Sep 28 12:45:13 s/ask ask/ask/ ;) Sep 28 12:46:42 hmm - so after my latest ipkg upgrade, I still need the gsmd restart in /etc/matchbox/session, but now I also need to comment out the battery panel, and now I get a new "Dialer: Error setting antenna power" message on boot. Things just keep going backwards rather than forwards, don't they ... Sep 28 12:47:59 viq: :D Sep 28 12:58:26 :P Sep 28 12:59:09 "Do ask about GTA02 no earlier than in December" ;P Sep 28 12:59:22 :) Sep 28 12:59:28 At all, or just don't ask about getting one? Sep 28 12:59:29 strangelv: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (and also SH1, SH1_FAQ, Neo1973, Developer_preview and Neo1973_Hardware#GTA01Bv4 pages) (Hopefully these links answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) Sep 28 13:00:02 strangelv: don't ask, just get it ;) Sep 28 13:00:14 why hasn't there been any updated images on buildhost since almost two weeks ago...? Sep 28 13:00:48 But seriously, I believe the official stance is "most information about hardware is in the wiki, and as for dates... Most likely in december, don't ask, you won't hear anything else than that" Sep 28 13:00:53 * strangelv is trying to figure out if getting 01Bv4 is useful for game development Sep 28 13:01:08 * strangelv is digging through the wiki Sep 28 13:01:41 development, maybe, but 02 will have much faster processor, and will have graphics acceleration, which 01 doesn't have Sep 28 13:02:00 on the other hand, maybe qemu would do, but I am not a good person to answer that question Sep 28 13:02:13 How much time between 02 initial release and serious marketing? Sep 28 13:02:35 "in other words, how much of a hurry should I be in Sep 28 13:04:17 I wouldn't rush... Sep 28 13:04:34 you prolly wont be able to get n 02 until march... Sep 28 13:04:40 ...2030 Sep 28 13:04:48 :) Sep 28 13:04:49 * FuzzyCat giggles and runs away Sep 28 13:05:45 FuzzyCat: I'd be optimistic and say "this decade" ;) Sep 28 13:06:04 IMO. Sep 28 13:06:25 I think it not unlikely that there will be purchasable hardware in Dec/Jan. Sep 28 13:06:27 "When I can get it isn't as important as when someone can buy one at Fry's or CompUSA Sep 28 13:06:42 This will of course be from the website. Sep 28 13:07:08 I would be astonished if it's in major stores before christmas 2008. Sep 28 13:07:31 That definitely soundss like 'wait' Sep 28 13:07:33 has anyone tried recent automated.it images? Sep 28 13:08:03 the current version is fine for development. Sep 28 13:08:15 Unless you are going to be developing for the accellerometer. Sep 28 13:08:24 Or doing full-motion video. Sep 28 13:09:03 And I hope to have some solutions to add an accel to the existing version soon. Sep 28 13:10:09 "as in a hardware modification? Sep 28 13:10:13 yes. Sep 28 13:10:17 Plug-in easy to use. Sep 28 13:10:26 User-installable, no soldering. Sep 28 13:10:31 really Sep 28 13:12:10 wow Sep 28 13:12:33 something with the transflash slot? Sep 28 13:12:41 No. Sep 28 13:12:51 the debug board connector Sep 28 13:13:15 * strangelv looks for that in the wiki Sep 28 13:13:39 here we go Sep 28 13:15:30 * strangelv looks at automated.it Sep 28 13:16:57 jeddy3: are you thinking of using the phone as a remote, or another controlled device? Sep 28 13:17:33 strangelv, maybe, why? Sep 28 13:18:10 trying to guess what you had in mind Sep 28 13:18:26 * strangelv has never seen automated.it before Sep 28 13:18:44 * ewon just gave a lecture on C++ to some college students Sep 28 13:18:46 * ewon feels old Sep 28 13:19:19 strangelv, nothing...just thought that with latest "official" image is dated 11 days ago, i might try something more recent Sep 28 13:19:23 * juri_ feels old too. Sep 28 13:19:41 i actually caught myself extoling the virtues of fortran the other day. Sep 28 13:19:52 strangelv, and automated.it images is more recent =) Sep 28 13:20:08 :: is looking at the wrong part of automated.it Sep 28 13:20:33 yeah, sorry http://buildhost.automated.it/OM2007.2/ Sep 28 13:20:39 FORTRAN, BASIC... there are some aesthetics if you ignore the line numbers and have lowercase Sep 28 13:20:53 didn't bother to write whole link :P Sep 28 13:21:05 Admittedly, I find all that in Python with note of the headaches Sep 28 13:21:20 "as well as none Sep 28 13:21:38 at least none of the ones I'm not too conditioned to not notice Sep 28 13:22:09 strangelv: i specialize in parallel processing. fortran was better written for parallization, by representing the math in a program closer to its "true form". Sep 28 13:22:40 noted Sep 28 13:22:55 how well would it work with 16+ processors? Sep 28 13:23:14 * strangelv really needs to learn stackless python Sep 28 13:24:43 given how much code there is in FORTRAN and COBOL it's probably important to ensure that newer programmers are at least exposed to them Sep 28 13:24:51 strangelv: i'm an ex-contributor to openmosix. and i used to port fortran programs to Big systems (256+ CPUs). i re-wrote everything in C as step 1.. but it works. ;) Sep 28 13:25:00 "or at least, I should say, a measurable if small percentage Sep 28 13:27:06 You're definitely dealing with a far more serious end of things than I've played with. I probably also need to stick to higher level languages Sep 28 13:27:51 "I'm way too unspecialized and get further from the technical path I might have taken in the late 1980s Sep 28 13:28:25 * strangelv started with a dialect of BASIC that enforced nearly every rallied against bad coding practice there is Sep 28 13:29:37 10 PRINT "I am GOD" 20 GOTO 10 :-D Sep 28 13:29:47 rule #1 -- don't write any comments -- they eat memory your program needs and slow down execution. I'm told I'm slowly getting less bad, though Sep 28 13:30:29 At least I didn't acchieve the course I wanted to follow. After all, EVERY serious commercial program is written in hardscoded machine language... Sep 28 13:37:48 openmoko: 03chris * r3054 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-today2/ (ChangeLog src/today-task-manager.c): Sep 28 13:37:48 openmoko: * src/today-task-manager.c: (today_task_manager_kill): Sep 28 13:37:48 openmoko: Call gdk_flush() before gdk_error_trap_pop() - Hopefully fix crashes Sep 28 13:37:48 openmoko: when closing other apps Sep 28 13:48:07 is anyone able to build openmoko? I get stuck on webkit-gtk Sep 28 13:50:57 i'll see if it helps to take out SRCREV_pn-webkit-gtk ?= "25582" from sane-srcrevs.inc Sep 28 14:39:46 rwhitby: I have a patch for the "Dialer: Error setting antenna power" problem, and the need to restart gsmd has also gone away with that patch, IIRC. :) Sep 28 14:41:25 mwester: is that patch in OE yet? Sep 28 14:43:26 No, it needs to be sent to the gsm list to join the other patches that await there. It's also arguably the wrong way to fix the problem - it restores old behavior for a libgsmd call when the correct fix would probably be to find everyone that calls that routine, and correct the callers. http://pastebin.com/m4bb0710c Sep 28 14:43:57 * mwester should put the patch sources up on his web site to join the binary images... Sep 28 14:45:56 mwester: I'd say send an email to gsmd-devel, saying that unles you hear from someone maintaining gsmd within 24 hours, you're going to commit that patch. Sep 28 14:46:11 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Qtopia_on_Neo_1973]] Sep 28 14:46:55 (remember that the fastest way to get a correct patch written by someone else is to commit a working, but incorrect, patch) Sep 28 14:47:24 hehe! Sep 28 14:47:55 hi Sep 28 14:48:34 mwester: I'm serious. this gsmd stuff has gone on too long, and you seem to be the only one in openmoko who is progressing it, so your patch should be committed. Sep 28 14:48:57 s/in openmoko/in openmoko inc or the openmoko community/ Sep 28 14:48:57 rwhitby meant: mwester: I'm serious. this gsmd stuff has gone on too long, and you seem to be the only one in openmoko inc or the openmoko community who is progressing it, so your patch should be committed. Sep 28 14:53:06 hhehehe - you *know* its gone on too long when rwhitby starts moaning about it too ;) Sep 28 15:01:33 mwester: do you have an updated package I can ipkg install from your site? Sep 28 15:01:36 (where is your site?) Sep 28 15:02:19 http://moko.mwester.net/ Sep 28 15:02:44 I just threw up a few images, no ipkgs (serious trouble uploading due to some issues with my ISP these days) :( Sep 28 15:02:53 * rwhitby ipkg updates on the neo, which is connected to an NSLU2 by USB, which is connected to a laptop via ethernet->usb, then by internet connection sharing, then by wireless, then by Openwrt on the router .... Sep 28 15:03:13 I can toss up the libgsmd ipkg, though... Sep 28 15:03:33 that would be good - got a fix for the battery panel too? Sep 28 15:05:24 I predict that openmoko will announce the new OE person on Monday. Sep 28 15:06:56 mwester: 30.1 - nicely done! Sep 28 15:07:18 The panel is a "heisen-panel" -- every attempt to debug it results in it starting correctly at boot. I need to figure an alternate approach to find out what's going on there. Sep 28 15:08:10 mwester: I'm taking a slug and the neo on my business trip - a portable hacking station. Sep 28 15:08:32 (all works from the usb ports on the laptop) Sep 28 15:08:36 (including power) Sep 28 15:09:20 I have been eyeing the nice advanced kit case with xacto knife in hand, to fit in an NSLU2 (only have XP and VMware on my company laptop). Sep 28 15:09:37 Power as well? Cool! Sep 28 15:09:46 mwester: I only have XP and wmware too. Sep 28 15:09:57 the nslu2 is there to run dfu-util :-) Sep 28 15:10:02 Exactly Sep 28 15:10:14 and to be the BT access point for the Treo Sep 28 15:10:32 I wonder what the cleaners at the hotel will think of it ... Sep 28 15:11:04 "I wonder what this would fetch at the pawn shop?" Sep 28 15:11:54 hello! Sep 28 15:12:23 so I am totally new to OpenMoko, and I am wondering, what service providers will the Neo 1973 work with? Sep 28 15:12:23 IamEthos_Work: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (and also SH1, SH1_FAQ, Neo1973, Developer_preview and Neo1973_Hardware#GTA01Bv4 pages) (Hopefully these links answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) Sep 28 15:13:18 mwester: your patch fixed the antenna error, but didn't remove the need for the gsmd restart in matchbox session. But at least it is now back to the same functionality as two weeks ago, and it's not even Sunday night yet! Sep 28 15:13:37 so groundhog day is early this week. Sep 28 15:15:24 I'm going to try and get the neo and the treo both to connect via bluetooth to the nslu2, forming a piconet with dund and pand. then I can use the keyboard on the nslu2 to ssh to the neo. Sep 28 15:15:43 will also try directly from treo to neo Sep 28 15:17:23 anyway, well past midnight - night all! Sep 28 15:17:36 g'nite Sep 28 15:17:47 good night Sep 28 15:18:06 okay... so at this point the Neo 1973/OpenMoko doesn't work with any wireless provider? Sep 28 15:18:45 IamEthos_Work: the current model Neo1973 (GTA01) doesn't have wireless (WiFi) Sep 28 15:19:07 viq, I mean wireless as in cellular provider Sep 28 15:19:12 after all, it is a phone Sep 28 15:19:26 wifi isn't a deal breaker for me Sep 28 15:19:49 IamEthos_Work: did you check the first link the bot gave you? Sep 28 15:20:53 viq, I'm still looking at it now. I just noticed the "Can the software do/connect to/..." with the answer probably not. Sep 28 15:21:01 is there something else i should be seeing there? Sep 28 15:21:34 oh, I see, under "what kind of connectivity?" Sep 28 15:22:06 yes, http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ#Q:_What_providers_provide_the_GSM_required_for_Neo1973.3F Sep 28 15:22:34 yeah Sep 28 15:22:43 * rwhitby points to mwester's entry in http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Community_nominees_for_GTA02_P0 ... Sep 28 15:23:03 viq, any chance Sprint will fit into that list eventually? Sep 28 15:23:36 * strangelv has generally regarded such specifics as S.E.P. -- maybe that will change if he hangs out here long enough Sep 28 15:24:09 IamEthos_Work: I have no idea where Sprint is and what kind of service they offer. Sep 28 15:24:30 viq, sorry, I figured that was probably too particular Sep 28 15:24:40 "Sprint is in the United States; does that count? Sep 28 15:25:11 strangelv: the main question is "do they provide GSM service?" Sep 28 15:25:12 IamEthos_Work: Sprint does not use GSM. Sep 28 15:25:48 IamEthos_Work: The only GSM carriers (and therefor the only ones compatible with the rest of the world) are AT&T (Cingular) and T-Mobile. Sep 28 15:25:56 "I was under the presumably mistaken impression the US used one system and most of the world used one of 2-3 others Sep 28 15:26:21 "So ther's two US carriers that can work with, say, a European phone? Sep 28 15:26:27 strangelv: why do you start most of your lines with " ? Sep 28 15:26:32 mwester, and OpenMoko devices won't support CDMA? Sep 28 15:26:37 The US uses 4 systems, IIRC. One of which will go away at the beginning of next year. Sep 28 15:26:37 or whatever sprint uses Sep 28 15:26:43 Sorry. years of typing in a MOO compatible MUD Sep 28 15:26:52 yay MOO Sep 28 15:26:57 There are no plans that I am aware of that would have a CDMA version of the Neo. Sep 28 15:28:00 The OpenMoko software is open -- so there's nothing to prevent someone from porting the software to run on a CDMA device (such as perhaps the CDMA version of the Treo 650?)... Sep 28 15:30:39 is there any hope that companies might switch to a compatable GSM network? Sep 28 15:31:00 like... should i even bother contacting sprint to request local GSM service Sep 28 15:32:33 IamEthos_Work: it's huge $$$$, so it's rather "do you plan to?" than "do this" Sep 28 15:48:20 strangelv: "lol, fellow MUDder Sep 28 15:48:39 IamEthos_Work: you alone contacting them likely won't do much, but if you can set off a chain reaction that causes people to ask for it, it'll work much better :) Sep 28 15:48:41 time for OMOO Sep 28 15:49:02 so who wants to call Sprint with me? Sep 28 15:49:07 we have 320 people in this channel Sep 28 15:49:15 that should make a small dent, at least Sep 28 15:49:27 if 320 people can get another 320 peple to call Sep 28 15:49:32 Maybe you can call Microsoft too Sep 28 15:49:35 And you're going to pay me for internatoinal call? Sep 28 15:49:35 they will change immediately Sep 28 15:50:01 most of us can't use Sprint even if we wanted to I'd guess. Sep 28 15:50:02 viq, isn't there some free online phone service that lets you do international calls Sep 28 15:50:18 dunno, is there? Sep 28 15:50:58 IamEthos_Work: it needs to be coming from potential (or existing) customers to have an effect. Sep 28 15:51:10 Someone from Finland, like me, won't have much weight there. Sep 28 15:51:34 viq, I guess skype isn't free anymore Sep 28 15:51:46 skype is not acceptable. Sep 28 15:51:55 Jiten, well you don't admit your from finland Sep 28 15:53:09 iam: i'm ok with using cingular/at&t, or tmobile. Sep 28 15:53:27 if you really care, start up your own cell carrier. its not that hard, in rural areas. Sep 28 15:53:39 i could do it myself, for instance. Sep 28 15:55:46 juri_, all to tempting Sep 28 16:13:35 openmoko: 03chris * r3055 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/artwork/themes/openmoko-standard-2/gtk-2.0/openmoko-dates: Add more styling for openmoko-dates Sep 28 16:16:46 juri_: if you do, be sure to over charge yourself for calls, sms messaging and even voicemail.. Sep 28 16:17:46 *sigh* .. well cdma is just no free market. there is no carrier i now of who supplies R-UIM (similar to a sim, but for cdma) cards, but all do just with fixed uims in the phones Sep 28 16:18:42 Hi roh! Sep 28 16:18:45 which means we could not sell mokos and people can choose their carrier.. so its a no-go.. besides that, the market is relatively small and only interresting for us citicens at all Sep 28 16:18:50 hey mwester Sep 28 16:19:53 Any updates on the gllin situation? Can anyone in the community help out in any way? Sep 28 16:20:27 well.. not yet. the problem seems that gllin is crashing in the eabi build Sep 28 16:23:15 Ok. If the development is anywhere near the US midwest, I can personally take an OE environment to Broadcom, and sit down with someone there to help debug. Sep 28 16:26:02 gllin worked for me in a chroot... what are you tracking? Sep 28 16:26:35 anyways, isnt gllin non-dfsg? shouldnt we be pouring our effort into a gpl'd product? :P Sep 28 16:27:46 hi there. Sep 28 16:27:49 any news? Sep 28 16:32:43 bedboi: News? Well, juri_ will be developing her own cell provider ;) and the only other significant thing is that there's been virtually no commits to OE or SVN for a couple of days at least. Sep 28 16:33:53 juri_: I intend to track me. actually, I have a Garmin, and a cheapo unit, and I just want to compare the results for various normal activities. Sep 28 16:35:06 juri_: Agree on the open-source stuff. Someone here was well on the way to doing that, but the news that it seems likely the gta02 will use a different chipset altogether has taken the wind out of those sails, so to speak. Sep 28 16:36:44 i would say that the lack of any sort of OE release schedule has done a lot to take the wind out of peoples sails. Sep 28 16:37:04 its frustrating to see non-progress in the moko tree .. yet a whole lotta hacking going on anyway. Sep 28 16:38:19 * FuzzyCat has wind... if you need some >:) Sep 28 16:38:34 FuzzyCat: eww Sep 28 16:42:02 * SpeedEvil considers an integrated wind-turbine for power. Sep 28 16:46:32 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Main_Page/sk]] [[Community_nominees_for_GTA02_P0]] Sep 28 16:46:59 * mwester attends meetings where there would be great potential for generating power from wind-turbines, despite the fact that said meetings occur indoors. Sep 28 16:49:13 mwester: so thats why theres no loose paper in meetingrooms... Sep 28 16:49:14 BTW, trivia: Chicago is known as the "Windy City", and got that nickname not from the local weather, but from the a political convention held in the city... Sep 28 16:50:18 juri_: :) Never underestimate the power of a wind-bag at a podium... Sep 28 17:14:59 openmoko: 03chris * r3056 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-today2/ (ChangeLog src/today-task-manager.c): Sep 28 17:14:59 openmoko: * src/today-task-manager.c: Sep 28 17:14:59 openmoko: Trap around gdk_window_foreign_new_for_display() and flush before every Sep 28 17:14:59 openmoko: gdk_error_trap_pop(). Sep 28 18:16:15 I borked my u-boot_env. anyone got a pointer to a fresh one? :/ Sep 28 18:24:00 ,.l Sep 28 18:24:08 http://www.dogsindanger.com/ Sep 28 18:24:51 particularly 'Time is running out for ...' Sep 28 18:27:06 greetings all Sep 28 18:28:50 anyone have info on what sdram chipset is being used with the gta02 ? Sep 28 18:31:37 prpplague, care to share your u-boot_env? :) Sep 28 18:34:36 hi folks, is calling with the openmoko-dialer working for someone? Sep 28 18:34:51 Yes. Sep 28 18:34:58 Just made my first reliable calls today. Sep 28 18:35:07 nice Sep 28 18:35:16 2 way? Sep 28 18:35:16 :) Sep 28 18:35:40 prpplague: there is no chipset Sep 28 18:35:42 how? i can make calls with libgsmd-tool but latest svn (compiled a couple minutes ago) but the openmoko-dialer does not run.. Sep 28 18:35:48 It's driven by the SoC Sep 28 18:35:59 ossman: I placed the ENV file I used when I un-bricked my NEO to my site... I have no idea where it came from tho: http://www.gcbdev.net/openmoko/env/openmoko_env.bin Sep 28 18:36:21 thanks Sep 28 18:40:06 gcb77_w, that image meant to be thrown at mtd1 or mtdblock1? Sep 28 18:45:52 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Community_nominees_for_GTA02_P0]] [[FreeBSD]] [[Talk:Wishlist:BuiltInScriptingLanguage]] [[BitBake_recipie]] [[Wishlist:BuiltInScriptingLanguage]] [[P1_Owners]] Sep 28 18:49:37 emre: do you get the dialog box error at boot, about "cannot set antenna power"? Sep 28 18:51:30 mwester: no, it just doesn't run. the dialer window is not shown. Sep 28 18:52:41 So the dialer won't even start, then? Sep 28 18:53:01 no. and I realized that the same happens with the mediaplayer. Sep 28 18:53:03 i'm sorry, who in openmoko is Michael Shilo? Sep 28 18:53:10 Try upgrading libmokoui2. Sep 28 18:53:25 i just built from the sources and flashed it. Sep 28 18:53:41 by the way the calculator works fine. Sep 28 18:53:43 Yeah, the sources tie libmokoui2 down to an older broken version. Sep 28 18:53:54 hmm. ok. Sep 28 18:53:58 let me try. Sep 28 18:54:11 That problem was already fixed, but you need to change sane_srcrevs to get the newer version. Sep 28 18:54:26 how, is it written somewhere? Sep 28 18:54:27 You can get the ipkg from http://moko.mwester.net Sep 28 18:54:47 how can i fix it in the source? Sep 28 18:55:42 No, it's not really documented anywhere how to do that. You have to find the "sane_srcrev.inc" file in the openembedded area, find the line that refers to libmokoui2, and change the svn version number to a more recent one. Sep 28 18:56:56 emre_: if you can just install the ipkg on http://moko.mwester.net and confirm that that version of it fixes your problem, I think that will be sufficient of a test to justify committed a new sane_srcrev.inc file. Sep 28 18:57:17 ok, I'm trying it.. Sep 28 18:57:25 * mwester doesn't want to step on anyone's toes by commited a change, but it's been broken now for days. Sep 28 18:57:37 cmmitting, even. Sep 28 18:57:48 Ack. I can't spell today. More coffee! Sep 28 19:01:06 java! Sep 28 19:01:43 coffein! Sep 28 19:02:39 10p/Kwh here ish. Sep 28 19:02:40 oops Sep 28 19:05:04 hmm someone misspelled the name, it's actually michael shiloh Sep 28 19:08:37 ossman: that image would be flashed from the PC using dfu-util Sep 28 19:12:46 hello mokoers Sep 28 19:14:21 mwester: ok it works.. Sep 28 19:15:05 but by the there is bug out there for months. I wonder why noone is talking about it! when you close the last task the window manager crashes.. Sep 28 19:18:12 I noticed that as well. And the battery applet randomly crashes the panel at startup. Sep 28 19:18:21 There are still many things to do. Sep 28 19:22:01 mwester, I'd like to try your gsm patches. what was the website again? Sep 28 19:22:20 http://moko.mwester.net/ Sep 28 19:22:25 mwester, thanks Sep 28 19:23:47 why dont you commit your changes? Sep 28 19:23:48 Any use in using kexec? Sep 28 19:24:28 hi Ghiottone! Sep 28 19:24:44 hey tuukkah Sep 28 19:25:00 tuukkah, did you see my progress with bootchart? Sep 28 19:25:13 no. is it in wiki? Sep 28 19:26:08 my wiki page and bootchart one Sep 28 19:26:21 right, liteboothchart. cool! Sep 28 19:26:22 I optimized bootchart so that results should be more accurate Sep 28 19:26:46 now we can actually see the end is not cpu-bound Sep 28 19:27:35 yes Sep 28 19:27:38 oh, or is that period after the actual boot? Sep 28 19:27:48 after the boot Sep 28 19:28:08 I did this test with the previous bootchart and even after boot the cpu was at 90% Sep 28 19:28:19 because bootchart is a shell script Sep 28 19:28:31 and so it does a lot of fork and exec Sep 28 19:28:53 did you notice you can put in a process name whose appearance tells bootchart that the boot is over? Sep 28 19:29:23 yes my first test was with openmoko-dialer in it Sep 28 19:29:32 that's why my first bootchart stopped there Sep 28 19:29:57 but then I prefer to remove it to check the cpu usage of bootchart Sep 28 19:30:32 Ghiottone, ok, actually it also makes sense because then we get to see how long the dialer and all are churning before it's all really done Sep 28 19:31:29 so we can say the boot ends at 130s? Sep 28 19:31:30 emre_: I'm not an openmoko employee, I'm just a guy who happens to be able to commit to the OE repository in general. I think it's a fine line between justified commits from the community, and chaos, and I'm trying to be very cognizant of the potential issues. Sep 28 19:32:22 mwester: imo, dvcs is the anwser Sep 28 19:32:45 tuukkah, that's more realistic than 180s obtained with the previous bootchart Sep 28 19:33:02 tuukkah, but I'll bet it is even less Sep 28 19:33:37 right, because bootchartd is still taking some 50% cpu Sep 28 19:34:06 yeah Sep 28 19:34:38 there is some pidof processes; sleep and probably some other things loop Sep 28 19:35:12 tuukkah, anyway, if you want to try it yourself, I have packaged it with the litebootchart name and put it in my repo Sep 28 19:35:41 good to know Sep 28 19:36:17 damn gnet Sep 28 19:36:21 and giochannels Sep 28 20:00:01 on https://direct.openmoko.com/ they say that theyre buildning new neo's but is it GTA01 or GTA02 neos? Sep 28 20:01:10 ossman: i'm not using u-boot Sep 28 20:01:36 SpeedEvil: that doesn't seem likely from what i can tell Sep 28 20:01:37 PP|Spydon: they're GTA01. Sep 28 20:01:41 PP|Spydon: afaik its another bunch of gta01 Sep 28 20:02:00 SpeedEvil: the s3c2442 seems to only be available with 64mb as part of the multi layer SoC Sep 28 20:02:14 What does afaik mean ^^ Sep 28 20:02:18 SpeedEvil: that means an external sdram chip will be needed for the additional 64mb Sep 28 20:02:21 What doesn't seem likely? Sep 28 20:02:34 prpplague: as I understaqnd it, that's what's happening. Sep 28 20:02:47 PP|Spydon: "As Far As I Know" Sep 28 20:02:48 a TI OPAM3430 would be cool in one of the next generations :) Sep 28 20:02:56 thx viq :P Sep 28 20:02:59 SpeedEvil: so which chipset are they using? SEC? ISSI? micron? Sep 28 20:03:01 *omap Sep 28 20:03:15 so it wont be any gta02 for dev preview? Sep 28 20:03:45 prpplague: as I understand it, there is an internal SDRAM chip on the SoC - and an external one too. Sep 28 20:04:06 The internal one is just connected across the bus like an external one. Sep 28 20:04:14 SpeedEvil: right, the question is what manufacturers external sdram Sep 28 20:04:26 SpeedEvil: right i'm familiar with the s3c2442 Sep 28 20:05:03 why does it matter? Sep 28 20:05:29 SDRAM is SDRAM is SDRAM. Sep 28 20:05:37 prpplague good question.. i could find that out if it changes anything, but yes, there is external sdram as well Sep 28 20:05:38 SpeedEvil: ha you are funny Sep 28 20:06:03 There is little difference between brands of SDRAM - as long as it works. Sep 28 20:06:09 roh: i've just completed a series of tests with the s3c2440 and s3c2442 running mobile sdram at 1.8v Sep 28 20:06:15 Finding model numbers that works are important of course. Sep 28 20:06:21 roh: there seems to a giant diversity of combatibility Sep 28 20:06:50 roh: so far, micron's has been almost useless at 1.8v with the 2440/2442 Sep 28 20:07:15 1.8V SDRAM would be very nice. Sep 28 20:07:44 roh: microns MT48H32M16LF does seem to work, however the SEC K4M51163PC Sep 28 20:08:02 SpeedEvil: the 2442 is internnal set at 1.8v so the external sdram will have to operate at 1.8v as well Sep 28 20:09:06 prpplague: ah - I diddn't realise it was a hardware question, thought you were asking from a software POV - as most would be. Sep 28 20:10:06 SpeedEvil: yea software wise, other than some timming issues, sdram will pretty much be the same from one device to the next Sep 28 20:10:27 SpeedEvil: however 1.8v sdram support was add only in the second round of silicon for the 2440 and 2442 Sep 28 20:10:35