**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Oct 06 02:59:56 2007 Oct 06 04:15:33 hello all Oct 06 04:15:37 torpor: you around? Oct 06 04:32:53 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Gsmd/document]] Oct 06 06:03:04 has anyone's recent builds failed with gnokiigsm/virtmodem.c ? Oct 06 06:04:12 moin Oct 06 06:15:11 CM, RalphEichelberge, build completed :) October 5, 2007 Oct 06 06:26:00 * * OM Bug 912 has been created by gnomecn(AT)gmail.com Oct 06 06:26:01 * * uboot-openmoko build error for x86 arch Oct 06 06:26:02 * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=912 Oct 06 06:30:00 * * OM Bug 913 has been created by gnomecn(AT)gmail.com Oct 06 06:30:02 * * template error? Oct 06 06:30:02 * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=913 Oct 06 06:32:13 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Gsmd/document]] Oct 06 07:19:42 hi room Oct 06 07:20:39 how can i skip the build of uboot-openmoko, it failed while I'm building a openmoko-devel-image for x86? Oct 06 07:20:39 Penguin: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (and also SH1, SH1_FAQ, Neo1973, Developer_preview and Neo1973_Hardware#GTA01Bv4 pages) (Hopefully these links answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) Oct 06 07:22:13 hihi Oct 06 07:22:29 Penguin, i just ignored it and using just openmoko-devel-image Oct 06 07:22:52 Penguin, did it fail at gnokiigsm/virtmodem.c ? Oct 06 07:22:56 mbuf: but there is no rootfs image in the build/tmp Oct 06 07:23:19 http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=912 Oct 06 07:23:47 Penguin: just saw that. It shouldn't use -march=armv4 on x86 ... Oct 06 07:23:47 Penguin, i did a build yesterday, and it it built fine for target; check images/openmoko Oct 06 07:23:57 *and it built Oct 06 07:25:27 (though of course building uboot at all on x86 is also pretty useless) Oct 06 07:25:58 Henryk: yes, I have run 'make qemu' in the same directory but faild, then I try to build for x86... Oct 06 07:28:04 Should I remove build/tmp and start a new build? Oct 06 07:29:01 Penguin: a quick fix for the moment: find the proper stamps directory (in build/tmp/stamps/*) where it keeps the stamps (I don't know which one, I never did a x86 build) for uboot-openmoko-... and touch the do_build stamp Oct 06 07:29:06 Henryk, isn't it not possible to use a local repository, build your code against the repository, make sure it builds fine, and then check-in the code? Oct 06 07:33:54 I got the same error.:( Oct 06 07:34:33 Penguin, and you are only testing with qemu? Oct 06 07:35:42 no, I just want to build a rootfs for x86, and then I can run it on my PC. Oct 06 07:35:50 i think it is best to have a local code-base, build the package to see if it is ok; then integrate it with the local repository, built to make sure target and qemu is fine, and then code should be checked into server repository Oct 06 07:36:10 *build to make sure target and qemu are fine Oct 06 07:36:55 good morning Oct 06 07:37:40 How do you guys to test application? on neo1973 or qemu or x86? Oct 06 07:37:48 mbuf: yes, that's usual procedure. however, there are quite some different system configurations out there so that it's always possible that something doesnt build on one or the other Oct 06 07:38:13 Penguin: qemu. i believe x86 didn't get much more testing since qemu works Oct 06 07:39:57 Ok, I'll try to build for qemu again, I'v cost more than 3 days to build openmoko, first for qemu, then fallback to x86, and now, I'd like to go back to qemu again:) Oct 06 07:40:40 Shall I clean the build/tmp and then make qenu? Oct 06 07:41:59 yes, do a make clean Oct 06 07:42:40 No such rule. Oct 06 07:43:16 make update-makefile Oct 06 07:46:05 I nearly got the last stage for x86...:( Oct 06 07:49:37 Can I flash new rootfs into new1973 by the USB cable? Oct 06 07:49:49 yes Oct 06 07:50:08 Can I upgrade a package in the neo1973 with a new ipkg? Oct 06 07:50:57 make clean deleted 8G data:) Oct 06 07:52:03 yes (both :) Oct 06 07:54:13 thx:) I've never tried that, because I've never get qemu runing for neo1973:) Oct 06 08:05:44 hello...can I rebuild the kernel with the mokomakefile? Oct 06 08:55:39 is there an easy way to build an image with console messages on usb? Oct 06 08:58:49 Esben, you mean build messages to be redirected to USB? Oct 06 09:01:29 kernel messages redirected to USB without using the serial-usb converter on the debug board Oct 06 09:01:51 of-course, usb in kernel have to be up and running first. Oct 06 09:02:19 I just built my first image during the night. Worked nicely with MokoMakefile :-) Oct 06 09:02:28 But it does not boot.... Oct 06 09:04:00 usb-net is not up and running, so most likely usb did not initialize correctly. Oct 06 09:04:56 the small golden connector on the top right, is that for rf? Oct 06 09:05:51 now, how do I open this thing so I can connect the debug board.... Oct 06 09:06:41 Esben, yes, that is for GSM; check the wiki, http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Connecting_GTA01Bv2_with_Debug_Board Oct 06 09:07:17 Esben, http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973_Debug_Board_v2 Oct 06 09:07:22 Esben, http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Connecting_Neo1973_with_Debug_Board_v2 Oct 06 09:07:55 mbuf: thanks, I have seen that one. just wondering how to dismantle the phone without ruining it to much... Oct 06 09:08:14 See the dissasembly guide Oct 06 09:08:24 url? Oct 06 09:08:24 Esben, http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Disassembling_Neo1973 Oct 06 09:08:28 thanks! Oct 06 09:42:13 openmoko: 03shoragan * r3092 10/branches/src/target/kernel/2.6.23.x/patches/ (fix-change_console-race.patch series): Drop fix-change_console-race because it was merged in 2.6.23-rc9. Oct 06 10:15:44 has anyone tested a recent image on the Neo1973? i get no text/icon display, instead I get a square with x inside it for all entries/items? are they trying to play Hollywood Squares? Oct 06 11:08:32 21gb Oct 06 11:34:07 good morning everyone Oct 06 11:36:50 Good afternoon, Duke Oct 06 11:39:37 * DukeOfURL reading about the skyhook product Oct 06 11:40:07 * DukeOfURL location information based on nearby WiFi stations Oct 06 11:40:22 http://www.skyhookwireless.com/howitworks Oct 06 11:42:24 DukeOfURL: Cool Oct 06 11:43:02 the database of WiFi points is the value Oct 06 11:43:03 DukeOfURL: I've built a small project like that at the university, but only for one building. Worked pretty good Oct 06 11:43:17 Yes, was a pain to record all the points Oct 06 11:43:32 We had a map of each floor, and walked around measuring Oct 06 11:43:44 Used the signal strength too to increase accuracy Oct 06 11:44:01 But that was a bit tricky since humans block signal strength a lot.. Oct 06 11:44:23 just do that at night:) Oct 06 11:44:29 we need software to collect data for the Open Street Map project that will also collect WiFi AP locations Oct 06 11:44:59 ooh. OpenWarDriving :D Oct 06 11:45:18 would be a good project for teens during summer vacation Oct 06 11:45:23 hehe Oct 06 11:45:52 viq: I like that: OpenWarDriving Oct 06 11:45:58 Hehe Oct 06 11:46:52 what's the accuracy of opensteetmap? Will two streets connect? (I heard about that project only a few days ago.) Oct 06 11:47:17 CM: Is it basically the overlapping ellipses? Oct 06 11:47:34 DukeOfURL: hmm, there's some resistance in the openstreetmap project against adding such types of information. which i can understand. Oct 06 11:47:46 why? Oct 06 11:48:02 why resistance? Oct 06 11:49:23 I didn't say incorporate the data into openstreetmap, just collect street data and WiFi AP data at the same time Oct 06 11:49:41 DukeOfURL: my guessing, but now openstreetmap is completely legal and useful and nice. with that it can be seen as a "project for bad hackers and needs to be abolished" Oct 06 11:50:04 DukeOfURL: some feel that openstreetmap should only include information on how to find your way around, and not every single shop there is and surely not every AP. these should be separate projects for map overlays (e.g. something like openyellowpages) Oct 06 11:50:06 DukeOfURL: ah, ok Oct 06 11:50:44 can multiple apps have concurrent access to GPS? Say, gathering info for openstreetmap and running kismet? ;) Oct 06 11:50:45 ah, yellow pages, another dying industry Oct 06 11:51:03 viq: gpsd.... Oct 06 11:51:42 OK, I guess that's a 'yes' Oct 06 11:51:43 viq: no, but you'll have to use gpsd or similar anyway. and then just log the info to a file where everyone can read. or dbus ... Oct 06 11:51:55 CM: Is it just overlapping ellipses, or is there higher math involved in determining position? Oct 06 11:54:00 CM: did you use the AP's MAC address or it's SSID? Oct 06 11:54:31 DukeOfURL: Sorry, making lunch Oct 06 11:55:27 We made it simpler than that. Since it was a lot of acess points in the house, we recorded the 5 strongest with signalstrengh per SSID Oct 06 11:55:37 For each point Oct 06 11:55:59 ok Oct 06 11:56:12 We had a map on a tablet pc, walked around and clicked on where we were right now to record the position Oct 06 11:56:27 Was more of a proff of concept, and it was 5 years ago Oct 06 11:56:37 Worked nicely later though when we demo:ed it Oct 06 11:56:38 did you then infer the coordinates of the AP? Oct 06 11:56:47 of each AP? Oct 06 11:56:53 No, we never cared about the positions of the AP's Oct 06 11:57:05 Only the places where we recorded signal strengths Oct 06 11:57:09 so just the intersecting signals? Oct 06 11:57:12 Yes Oct 06 11:57:51 we NEED this data in the public domain, along with cell tower locations... Oct 06 11:57:52 We had server also where you could sign in so that everyone could see logged in people on a homepage, where they were in the building Oct 06 12:02:00 is there a way to determine whether a WiFi signal is statonary or mobile? Something in the protocol that indicates it's an AP? Oct 06 12:04:02 DukeOfURL: infrastructure/managed <> ad-hoc thing? Oct 06 12:04:37 yes Oct 06 12:05:08 * DukeOfURL thinking about how to build an AP location database Oct 06 12:06:13 errm.. Oct 06 12:06:42 moin Oct 06 12:07:31 actually the signal measuring may be better than AP locations, because CM's method includes all the enviromental affects on the signal. E.g. same distance from the same AP may be strong or weak in different directions. (But I don't know, never tried :-) ) Oct 06 12:08:46 CM had the luxury of walking each floor of the building. I thinking how we could build such a database by driving the streets. Oct 06 12:09:07 * Esben ponders Oct 06 12:09:17 knowing the signal strength is affected by many factors Oct 06 12:09:49 By far, a human standing next to the wifi-card was the most affecting thing Oct 06 12:09:50 actually, what's the use of this? Oct 06 12:09:51 has anyone's recent build doesn't produce any icons/text on the Neo1973? I get a square box instead with a red cross in it Oct 06 12:09:57 Water absorbs the signal.. Oct 06 12:10:19 mbuf: I have a two days old build, and that one works. Must have been something more recent Oct 06 12:10:41 mbuf: did you nand erase rootfs before flashing? Oct 06 12:11:01 LionKMP: to augment positioning from the GPS receiver, especially when inside a building. Oct 06 12:11:03 Henryk, no Oct 06 12:11:07 mbuf: You might wanna check if the icons in /usr/share/themes/openmoko-standard-2/ are there Oct 06 12:11:25 mbuf: try that and flash again Oct 06 12:11:27 Henryk, but nand erase rootfs is only if the image size is smaller than the previous right? Oct 06 12:11:45 mbuf: in theory, yes Oct 06 12:12:21 I see. Oct 06 12:13:37 when I saw openstreetmap faq about accuracy, it talked about street names, and not meters. What's the accuracy in meters? Only about 30 steets of my 2M ppl city is mapped there :-( Oct 06 12:13:38 Henryk, from where should i do cu -l /dev/ttyACM0, #nand erase rootfs Oct 06 12:13:39 LionKMP: multipath errors from GPS in a dense urban setting Oct 06 12:14:33 LionKMP: the accuracy is as good as the data that has been put in. naturally this varies. it's pretty ok for cities that are on yahoo satellite images, though Oct 06 12:14:40 abraxa_, /usr/share/themes/openmoko-standard-2 exists with gtk+-2.0 and matchbox directory, and index.theme file Oct 06 12:15:02 mbuf: pardon? Oct 06 12:15:36 Henryk, i boot into u-boot, and from host PC I should do cu -l /dev/ttyACM0 ? Oct 06 12:15:44 mbuf: Actually, my bad, I meant /usr/share/icons/openmoko-standard/ Oct 06 12:15:53 Henryk: :-) ok, I am asking about the accuracy of the devices used in general. What if two connected streets are mapped by different ppl different device? Oct 06 12:16:19 3m? 10m? 30m? Oct 06 12:16:20 abraxa_, yes, there are directories, 128x128, 22x22, 32x32 etc. Oct 06 12:16:51 mbuf: Ah, good. I wonder what's the cause then. Oct 06 12:17:16 LionKMP: the GPS, if used at all, is only the first step. the actual data is entered in terms of nodes, edges and paths, e.g. it's topological information. so generally it's correct with respect to connectedness Oct 06 12:17:33 Henryk: Nice way of putting it :) Oct 06 12:18:43 Henryk: ok I see, thanks. Maybe I should register and see how it is edited. Oct 06 12:18:49 what needs to be installed for cu ? Oct 06 12:19:05 is there any news on GPS btw? driver? code? anything? Oct 06 12:19:10 LionKMP: but careful. it's addictive :) http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Beginners%27_Guide Oct 06 12:19:59 mbuf: you need to have some terminal program on your host machine. for some reason some people prefer cu (which needs to be installed). i actually prefer screen /dev/ttyACM0 115200 Oct 06 12:20:03 :-) yes, I miss my appartment's street so much :-p Oct 06 12:20:35 LionKMP: hehe, I did too. :) Oct 06 12:20:41 :-D Oct 06 12:20:50 Henryk, ok, it is just cu package Oct 06 12:22:08 LionKMP: if your area is captured by the yahoo satellite/aerial images you can actually edit without owning a gps. the online flash editor integrates those images Oct 06 12:23:26 * hhf423 flashes the ScaredyCat OM image from 05.10. Oct 06 12:30:46 * hhf423 boots Oct 06 12:33:59 * hhf423 sighs Oct 06 12:34:47 no top menu, crap Oct 06 12:35:25 hhf423, no icons/text on the Neo1973? get a square box instead with a red cross in it? Oct 06 12:35:55 DukeOfURL: lookes at the output of iwlist ? Oct 06 12:36:22 no I get all that. I even get asked for the PIN, just I can not see if it registeres with the network as the top menu with all the status icons is not there Oct 06 12:36:31 hhf423, ok Oct 06 12:36:36 * hhf423 powers down an starts flashing qtopia Oct 06 12:36:50 mbuf: did you already flash the august 19 uboot? Oct 06 12:36:59 there's a new image for that too hhf423 :) Oct 06 12:37:06 hhf423, not uboot Oct 06 12:37:29 ScaredyCat: yes, I am flashing your latest qtopia image, thanks. Oct 06 12:37:45 hhf423, using OpenMoko-openmoko-devel-image-glibc-P1-August-Snapshot-20070819-fic-gta01.rootfs.jffs2 Oct 06 12:37:56 mbuf: you should do that. with that ubott, nand erase stuff is no longer required Oct 06 12:38:24 hhf423, you mean i should update u-boot? Oct 06 12:38:42 mbuf: yes, I think you should use this one: http://buildhost.openmoko.org/snapshots/2007.08/images/ Oct 06 12:38:57 hhf423, i flash the images that i build Oct 06 12:39:00 mbuf: since that ubott I did not have any uboot related issues whatsoever Oct 06 12:39:26 mbuf: your choice :-) do you have a debug board? Oct 06 12:39:40 hhf423, yes, haven't had time to work with it, yet Oct 06 12:40:34 mbuf: I do not have a debug board and I do not build images myself. I used to rely on openmoko buildhost (now out of service) and ScaredyCat :-) Oct 06 12:41:24 Henryk, thanks, nand erase rootfs, and reflashing rootfs, now produces sound and the GUI with icons Oct 06 12:42:18 mbuf: then you should go to a never uboot version (august 19 or later), because that fixes the bug which requires the nand erase Oct 06 12:43:06 hhf423, ok Oct 06 12:43:17 hhf423: that the try area is not seen seems to happen sometimes. just reboot and try again. seems to be a timing issue Oct 06 12:43:39 ERROR: Cannot satisfy the following dependencies for helloworld: libmokoui2-0 (>= 0.1.0+svnr3064) libgsmd0 (>= 0.1+svnr3074) Oct 06 12:44:17 DukeOfURL: Oct 06 12:44:35 DukeOfURL: http://www-robotics.usc.edu/~ahoward/pubs/howard_fsr03a.pdf could be an interesting paper for you Oct 06 12:46:09 great and qtopia has no sound. that has worked before Oct 06 12:47:58 there has been some talk that gsmd is more stable now, but I can not see any commits in the commitlog, does anyone know why? do the openhand people use an other commit log? Oct 06 12:49:02 hhf423: gsmd is under OM SVN, so any commits for it would appear on commitlog, too Oct 06 12:49:34 hahaha Oct 06 12:49:36 http://cgi.ebay.de/18x-Schutzfolie-Computer-Neo-1973-Tuch_W0QQitemZ290145736835QQihZ019QQcategoryZ38950QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem Oct 06 12:49:49 abraxa_: do you have a link for that? Oct 06 12:51:39 hhf423: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/commitlog/ - the only change regarding gsm would be commit 3074, though it's not gsmd Oct 06 12:52:42 hhf423: I wonder why they sell 18 of them at once... Oct 06 12:53:17 yes, hehe Oct 06 12:53:42 gsmd more stable must be bullshit or magic then, if it was not changed Oct 06 12:55:42 ScaredyCat: thank you Oct 06 12:55:49 hhf423: Magic ;) Oct 06 12:56:13 abraxa_: one would hope that. but probably just placebo Oct 06 12:57:28 hhf423: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2007-September/009997.html might be an interesting read Oct 06 12:57:52 (in case you haven't seen it yet) Oct 06 12:58:26 abraxa_: I have read that. the due date of all that is already past. Oct 06 12:58:58 * abraxa_ shrugs Oct 06 12:59:27 If Harald's previous blog posts are any indicator of how incompetent certain people in Taiwan are then... yeah Oct 06 12:59:48 I'm not gonna ask for the impossible ;) Oct 06 12:59:59 well, harald has been even more silent than he used to be Oct 06 13:00:48 mickey|portugal - You there? Oct 06 13:02:13 I have now rebooted three times and have no try/top menu. Oct 06 13:02:38 ok, I'll shelve the rubbish for an other week and see where we are then. talk to you later Oct 06 13:09:56 Hi all guys... Oct 06 13:10:02 i'm new here Oct 06 13:10:48 is there anyone that can tell me how much time does it take to have a neo 1973 now? Oct 06 13:18:27 In /usr/share/openmoko-panel-gsm are the gsm icon files. Is there anything that indicates whether the Neo is currently registered? Oct 06 13:44:33 I would really love to buy a neo 1973 do u know how long does it takes to get it? Oct 06 13:45:44 Black-Dog_: the developer/testing version, or the production/consumer-ready version? Oct 06 13:45:55 developer tsting Oct 06 13:46:06 i know that i don't have to ask for the gta2 Oct 06 13:46:16 in my case it was two weeks from ordering->delivered, but I don't know if the last batch has ran out yet... Oct 06 13:46:16 why? Oct 06 13:46:31 i'd like to buy the gta1 Oct 06 13:46:37 gta02 will only take a few months to be ready for shipping Oct 06 13:46:55 On the main screen of the room says: "do not ask about tha gta2" Oct 06 13:46:58 it's planned for the late november Oct 06 13:47:13 So the gta1 will be faster? Oct 06 13:47:14 so imho you should wait Oct 06 13:47:16 thomasg: last I heard it was planned for december at the earliest... Oct 06 13:47:29 Mek: michael shiloh wrote some messages on the list Oct 06 13:47:34 yes but when gta2 will come out will be for consumers? Oct 06 13:48:01 the developer version will be shipped (if nothing goes wrong) in the late november, the consumer release is planned for december Oct 06 13:48:13 ahhh ok Oct 06 13:48:33 so if i'd like the neo 1973 gta1 i can buy it know in developer preview Oct 06 13:48:35 although I doubt consumer ready software will be available in december... Oct 06 13:48:48 I doubt that, too Oct 06 13:48:50 i don't care for consumer version Oct 06 13:48:59 but I think that the hardware will be ready in november Oct 06 13:49:13 it will have wifi right? Oct 06 13:49:16 yes Oct 06 13:49:20 wowo Oct 06 13:49:40 i've read somewhere that gta1 owners will be able to add wifi module Oct 06 13:49:42 Black-Dog_: the consumer version will have wifi, not developer Oct 06 13:49:51 Black-Dog_, you've read clueless stuff Oct 06 13:49:53 Black-Dog: not without hardware mods. Oct 06 13:50:02 yeah i know Oct 06 13:50:23 or, yes, "able to" the same way you are able to get a porsche engine in a lada Oct 06 13:50:35 i know that to have wifi i have to make some mods Oct 06 13:50:50 but anyway how is the device??? do you love it? Oct 06 13:50:59 i'm so impressed Oct 06 13:51:24 can't really love it with the software being this unfinished yet Oct 06 13:52:08 yeah i understand but it's able to makes some calls and some early things... right? Oct 06 13:54:42 Elrond: I assume Mickey returns tomorrow - he said he'll be gone for two weeks and left on a sunday morning Oct 06 14:01:43 abraxa_: And hopefully he's really eager to get back working on OpenMoko :D Oct 06 14:02:39 CM: I'm sure he will be :) Oct 06 14:14:39 I guess some of you might think this is interesting: http://84.18.144.44/tsdogs/screenshots/qtopia_roadmap2.mpg Oct 06 14:50:10 abraxa_ - Ahh, cool. :-) Oct 06 14:52:20 Good morning. Oct 06 14:53:13 riot, lasrtiq Oct 06 14:53:52 my music player client doesnt build againt 2007.2 but can probably be finangled and made to build Oct 06 14:53:54 Good afternoon, Gopi Oct 06 14:54:17 it just needs to link and such Oct 06 14:54:20 it compiles of course Oct 06 14:54:36 but apparently, its a great effort to get me to do anything at all with it Oct 06 14:55:02 so riot, if i just upload the source file and give you svn access, would you make it build for us? Oct 06 14:55:07 heh Oct 06 14:56:06 Do you think it will be feasible to have something like OpenVPN or other IPSec running on OpenMoko/Neo1973? Oct 06 14:57:03 sure Oct 06 14:57:16 viq: Yes. I currently run OpenVPN on a smaller ARM device. Oct 06 14:57:22 ah, cool Oct 06 14:57:32 So if I want a phone with a decent address book, power management but nothing else...ETA? Oct 06 14:57:40 I had OpenVpn on a Netgear WGT634U once, 200 MHz processor, did about 1.8 MBit/s Oct 06 14:57:56 viq: is that something you wish to test? Perhaps we should add OpenVPN to the feeds... Oct 06 14:58:23 openmoko: 03werner * r3093 10/trunk/src/host/usbpath/ (8 files): Oct 06 14:58:23 openmoko: Library and utility to convert between USB device numbers and physical paths Oct 06 14:58:23 openmoko: to devices. Oct 06 14:58:55 Yes, I would be using it I believe. My wireless at home is protected by firewall and VPN instead of WEP/WPA/WhatevER Oct 06 14:59:27 Holy crap, Werner committed something! *drops jaw in awe* Oct 06 14:59:41 viq: i had that too, when my laptop couldn't do wpa. (i had something like PPPoE over OpenVPN over Wifi) Oct 06 14:59:54 lol Oct 06 15:00:11 Yeah, my OS of choice is OpenBSD, which doesn't do WPA just yet Oct 06 15:00:18 :) Oct 06 15:00:22 (oh, and in the PPPoE there was another OpenVPN to the university) Oct 06 15:00:36 * mwester also has OpenVPN at home for the devices that cannot do WPA Oct 06 15:00:44 argh, what MTU did you have with so many layers? Oct 06 15:01:14 hmm, didn't care, let openvpn do the fragmentation stuff Oct 06 15:01:29 Which reminds me that "one of those days" I should have a look why the IPSec stopped being happy with my setup. Oct 06 15:04:00 We're getting a voice T1 at work, with Asterisk, and the Neo1973 could do some interesting least cost routing tricks. Oct 06 15:04:12 And yes, OpenVPN in default packages would be nice ;) Oct 06 15:04:52 Gopi: sounds like an interesting thing :) Oct 06 15:05:11 speaking of, there still isn't any IM client done yet? Oct 06 15:05:32 hmm, there's openvpn in oe and builds fine Oct 06 15:05:48 I'm buying a compact PC with an fxo pci card, and putting in a gsm module as well Oct 06 15:06:49 Foreigm country: 2x local sim, net at the hotel --> cellphone to voip Oct 06 15:07:54 Want the phone to dial the voip box and do in band dtmf signalling for the actual outgoing number Oct 06 15:08:34 Wow. And I didn't get around to setting up my own asterisk yet... ;) Oct 06 15:08:35 Henryk: Yep, that's the OpenVPN I've been using for some time. It should work fine. Oct 06 15:09:03 Incoming, immediate answer, dtmf decode of actual caller id, present ring to the user Oct 06 15:09:39 anyway, back in a while, time to take care of rest of my dinner ;) Oct 06 15:09:43 viq: this will be my first non virtual asterisk config. Oct 06 15:10:20 We just got aastra etheenet phones. They can do xml browsing Oct 06 15:12:16 So...when can I add openmoko to this package...? Oct 06 15:14:04 Gopi: You mean "when will OpenMoko be able to do VoIP calls"? Oct 06 15:16:42 ~lart GTK's theming abilities Oct 06 15:16:43 * apt readies the nuke launcher and fires some rounds at GTK's theming abilities Oct 06 15:17:38 I think voip should in principle work already. I think i used one of the command line sip clients. could get it to do simultaneous recording and playback though Oct 06 15:18:34 yeah it's all about integration Oct 06 15:22:55 hi Oct 06 15:33:56 Direct phone voip isn't interesting to me before wifi is there. Good power managment and a robust calling and address book system is what I need Oct 06 15:35:11 Last I looked, the wiki indicated that the neo1973 didn't have that. Oct 06 15:35:56 correct, not any of those Oct 06 15:37:11 Any guesses as to when those will be there? Oct 06 15:37:44 I would guess 3 months tops Oct 06 15:38:31 * cb22 imagines when the '02 comes out, things will speed up rather rapidly Oct 06 15:39:22 '02 == Wi-Fi enabled hardware? Oct 06 15:39:26 yeo Oct 06 15:39:28 yep* Oct 06 15:39:38 cb22: nah, we will all be playing with the shineys too much to code stuff Oct 06 15:39:46 hehe Oct 06 15:40:01 Will ebay be flooded with cheap 01s? Oct 06 15:40:05 ooh, i wonder if i can make it when i wave the phone around in a specific patern it will unlock Oct 06 15:40:35 * XorA wants to be able to send SMS by tapping phone and using LED for reading them Oct 06 15:40:39 in morse Oct 06 15:40:57 I want morse ring tones Oct 06 15:41:05 like Nokia Oct 06 15:41:15 XorA, now make it :) Oct 06 15:41:48 there used to be linux support for error message by morse on caps LED, wonder if we can re-use that Oct 06 15:42:03 If there are good apis, it isn't hard to do this Oct 06 15:42:29 Gopi: what do you mean by "virtual asterisk config"? Oct 06 15:42:32 XorA: if it uses the led device class for morsing than it should work with the vibrator! Oct 06 15:43:07 Henryk: but that would cause feedback problem with accelleraometer Oct 06 15:43:14 There are so many nifty things I want to do with my phone that are easy with OSS / impossible without Oct 06 15:43:43 viq: remote SIP to PSTN gateways only Oct 06 15:44:32 viq: used asterisk to man in the middle phone calls in user studies Oct 06 15:44:54 * mjr imagines an app that displays porn when you vigorously shake the phone Oct 06 15:45:26 ah, ok Oct 06 15:45:39 It clearly has to be interactive pr0n Oct 06 15:45:56 Asterisk is on my list of things I would like to play with, set up on my box to have a way to have voice conversations with people Oct 06 15:46:03 lol Oct 06 15:46:15 "shake it, baby!!" Oct 06 15:47:40 viq: asterisk is a bit annoying. You configure it like a pbx. Confusing if you don't want to use it that way. Oct 06 15:48:16 PBX? Oct 06 15:49:02 XorA: I seem to recall that someone extended the LEDs mechanism in the kernel to do Morse not too long ago... Oct 06 15:54:46 PBX == Private Branch Exchange. Oct 06 15:58:14 ah, ~= "internal phone network" Oct 06 15:58:55 What most folks refer to as the "phone switch" instead of the handset. Oct 06 15:59:32 Yes, but a private phone switch. One that you can screw around with yourself. Oct 06 15:59:38 The neo is interesting because it can do both handset and pbx... that's cool. Oct 06 16:01:15 hehe, yeah. "hey, why was your server not reachable in the morning?" "sorry, I was in a subway..." ;) Oct 06 16:02:02 You can't do simultaneous voice and data either :( Oct 06 16:04:50 I was thinking that a phone with GPRS and CDMA EVDO radios would be nifty. Oct 06 16:05:20 Fast data in most parts of the US, + world data everywhere. Oct 06 16:07:01 viq: *lol* Oct 06 16:07:30 Anyone with GTK theming experience around? Oct 06 16:12:16 openmoko: 03werner * r3094 10/trunk/src/host/usbpath/ (Makefile libusbpath.pc.in): - added provision of libusbpath.pc Oct 06 16:14:53 ~seen roh Oct 06 16:14:56 roh is currently on #oe #openmoko. Has said a total of 44 messages. Is idling for 2d 4h 12m 49s, last said: 'nibbo_ stinks like gcc3 vs gcc4 .. which gcc are you using?'. Oct 06 16:25:49 anybody with om commit rights here? http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=902 has a patch. i was just about to fix the same problem but then noticed that somebody else already posted a patch Oct 06 16:26:57 Henryk: I can do that... Oct 06 16:27:04 thanks Oct 06 16:33:25 * XorA speeds up GTA boot by quite a few seconds Oct 06 16:33:58 <|R> is it an upstart like system ? Oct 06 16:34:31 nope Oct 06 16:36:40 I know how to make it boot a 'bit faster' from user point of view ;D\ Oct 06 16:56:23 quick dirty question: which is actually the maximum time for the battery? There are news inspite of that written in Wiki/FAQ? Oct 06 16:56:45 Maximum time? Oct 06 16:59:50 abraxa_: the during of the battery, some notices are written in WIki/"Approximate power draw of various subsystems" but I want to know if there are news on this topic by users themselves Oct 06 17:00:37 Do you mean the estimated maximum running time with all power management features in place? Oct 06 17:00:52 Cause currently there are pretty much... none Oct 06 17:00:56 yeah Oct 06 17:01:08 Well, that can't be guessed really Oct 06 17:01:27 abraxa_: for this reason I'm searching for news :) Oct 06 17:02:45 Unfortunately that won't be very successful as any guess at this point would be a wild speculation Oct 06 17:02:46 Fradeve: best guess at moment is about 30 hours standby (GSM ready for incoming call or SMS) Oct 06 17:03:06 abraxa_: standby is not wild speculation. Oct 06 17:03:16 i.e. suspend to RAM Oct 06 17:03:50 Writchie: and with an active using? I mean calling, sending/receiving sms, webworking, reading rss etc? Oct 06 17:04:11 Fradeve: about 2 hours Oct 06 17:04:13 talk time depends on what you're doing and how far from the tower Oct 06 17:04:26 2 to 3 hours is best guess at moment for GTA01 Oct 06 17:04:45 XorA: is exactly the kind of information I'm searching for ;) Oct 06 17:04:51 Writchie: ook Oct 06 17:05:08 Writchie: I stand corrected then Oct 06 17:05:25 hmm...webkit-gtk is taking unusually long to compile Oct 06 17:05:33 Fradeve: I havent measured it but from memory when I forget to plug in power its about 2 hours when you are using machine to the dgree it cant sleep[ Oct 06 17:06:15 XorA: mmm interesting Oct 06 17:06:28 ok thanks for "news" and good work to all ;) Oct 06 17:06:28 XorA: I think I have about the same Oct 06 17:06:41 of course when talking we will shut down a lot of stuff like screen Oct 06 17:09:12 XorA: so you can't put it on speaker and check your calendar while talking? ;) Oct 06 17:09:33 AntonTakk: when you touch screen it will turn back on Oct 06 17:09:41 ah Oct 06 17:09:43 ok Oct 06 17:09:54 i misunderstood your meaning then Oct 06 17:09:55 XorA: and if handled right the touch will not do anything Oct 06 17:10:08 other than wake up display Oct 06 17:10:18 What about your cheek/ear then when talking? Oct 06 17:10:38 viq: what happens on other phones? Oct 06 17:10:52 viq: u learn not to operate phone with your ear Oct 06 17:10:54 screen, backlight and touch screen stay on on my p910i when on the phone... sometimes bad things happen when my face touches the screen Oct 06 17:11:02 Other phones don't have most of their surface covered by touch-sensitive screen ;) Oct 06 17:11:32 viq: hmmm, mine does Oct 06 17:11:34 p800 has about the same % screen and i've never found it to be a problem Oct 06 17:11:46 Writchie: or maybe you actually learn to operate phone with your ear ;) Oct 06 17:12:03 viq: ;) which i could Oct 06 17:12:04 Writchie: but if you start call with the flip down...? Oct 06 17:12:20 i haven't had a real flip installed for 4 years Oct 06 17:12:39 ah, you use the pretend flip Oct 06 17:12:46 yes Oct 06 17:12:55 on the p910i the flip is hardwired in as it has a keypad on both sides Oct 06 17:12:57 Eh, my current phone is SE k700i. Which I am looking to replace now. Oct 06 17:13:01 and i must say neo touch screen works far better Oct 06 17:13:15 Writchie: i did like the poke-through on my p800 flip though Oct 06 17:13:40 it's cute but the phone itself is a bit big Oct 06 17:14:27 my p910i is slowly dying... wonder how long till gta02 will be usable enough to put my sim in Oct 06 17:15:05 GTA01 is getting close - maybe just a week or two more at least for qtopia load Oct 06 17:15:07 (the latest joy on the p910i is some sort of failure mode where it crashes in high current consumption mode, and flattens the battery from full in a couple of hours) Oct 06 17:15:26 cjb_ie: p800's do the same Oct 06 17:15:37 one or twice a week Oct 06 17:15:38 Writchie: don't remember it ever happening on my p800 Oct 06 17:15:57 and i had it for a couple of years, till the battery was worn out Oct 06 17:16:02 may be network dependant Oct 06 17:16:13 i've had the p910i nearly three years now Oct 06 17:16:15 just by new batteries Oct 06 17:16:37 it's tempting, but i wanted the flashiness of the 910 anyway :) Oct 06 17:16:47 though in hindsight, i preferred the ui on the p800 Oct 06 17:17:06 p800 was the pinnacle and will be replaced by the neo Oct 06 17:17:27 but probably not until GT03 when BT is straightened out Oct 06 17:17:41 What's wrong with BT now? Oct 06 17:17:56 can't be woken up from headset Oct 06 17:18:05 ah, yes, dammit, bt. i've recently actually started using bt for handsfree in the car Oct 06 17:18:19 which means you can't press the button and use the phone - you have to physicall handle the phone Oct 06 17:18:29 JPFS Oct 06 17:18:37 Ah, thank you, I was about to ask. Oct 06 17:19:18 * cjb_ie googles jpfs and is hopelessly lost Oct 06 17:19:31 just plain f*%^^& stupid Oct 06 17:27:06 I've had two P800s start burning out their LCDs. Oct 06 17:27:11 Bottom part of the display turns black. Oct 06 17:31:14 gopi_: something growing over the backlight? Oct 06 17:32:11 Writchie: Growing as in... fungus? Oct 06 17:32:13 Writchie: No, not backlight. something 3/4 the width of the screen at the bottom, nearly 1cm at the middle. Oct 06 17:32:30 Totally black. Oct 06 17:32:32 abraxa_ or mold? Oct 06 17:32:52 gopi: sounds like the lcd driver chip Oct 06 17:33:09 It's there when the LCD is off. Oct 06 17:33:16 And it's not pixel shaped. Oct 06 17:33:29 Perhaps there's a serious DC bias in there. Oct 06 17:33:44 is it exactly the same on both? Oct 06 17:33:51 It grows. Oct 06 17:34:05 But it is _extremely_ similar. Oct 06 17:34:23 One of them was like that when it was loaned to me. Oct 06 17:34:32 Mine started to do that afterwards. Oct 06 17:34:46 maybe its infectious ;) Oct 06 17:35:34 p800 is so old now its hard to compain about much Oct 06 17:35:54 It's not caused by a single defective charger, or by some unique mistreatment from me :) Oct 06 17:35:56 hm, my Neo finally got a GPS fix. you just have to wait a while. a while being, like, half an hour. Oct 06 17:36:07 Writchie: Mmm. But. I've just *never* seen this from an LCD. Oct 06 17:36:36 me neither, and i've seen lots of partially broken ones Oct 06 17:37:44 if its across in even lines then some kind of bias anomoly may be spreading from one end to the other Oct 06 17:38:50 It's an arc. Oct 06 17:39:04 from one corner? Oct 06 17:39:24 LIke there's this massive ~8cm circle taht just started to cast a shadow... Oct 06 17:39:31 All four corners are perfect. Oct 06 17:39:40 the shadow's thickest point is precisely in the middle. Oct 06 17:39:48 at the bottom. Oct 06 17:39:53 openmoko: 03zecke * r3095 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-dialer2/ (ChangeLog src/moko-keypad.c): Oct 06 17:39:53 openmoko: 2007-10-06 Holger Hans Peter Freyther Oct 06 17:39:53 openmoko: openmoko-dialer display isn't cleared after pin is sent Oct 06 17:39:53 openmoko: -http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=902 Oct 06 17:39:55 openmoko: * src/moko-keypad.c: Oct 06 17:39:56 gopi_ : that is characteristic of physical damange at one point. Oct 06 17:39:57 openmoko: (on_dial_clicked): Oct 06 17:39:59 openmoko: (on_panel_user_input): Oct 06 17:40:00 So at first you would get a tiny sliver of black in the middle. Oct 06 17:40:13 do you ever put in back pocket? Oct 06 17:40:31 or carry keys in same pocket and bump against something Oct 06 17:40:46 Writchie: Back pocket, only with cargo pants and without sitting down. Oct 06 17:41:07 Writchie: The odd thing is that my boss's P800 did the same thing. Oct 06 17:41:21 gopi_: it doesn't take all that much Oct 06 17:41:42 the p800 plastic touchscreen is very hard Oct 06 17:41:55 I haven't heavly abused it, but I can't say I treated it like a piece of artwork. Oct 06 17:42:34 i have large lcd's with similar effect - black bullet hole. Oct 06 17:42:55 Interesting. So what causes it? Pressure point? Oct 06 17:43:08 yes - usually a sharp blow Oct 06 17:43:28 My 770's LCD is scary; the touch screen is very flexible. Oct 06 17:43:41 i know Oct 06 17:43:53 iPhone is probably best. Oct 06 17:43:59 neo is not too bad so far Oct 06 17:44:09 The flip on the P800 is an interesting pressure point. Oct 06 17:44:16 * gopi_ fondles his iPhone. Oct 06 17:44:30 gopi_ there's a gap in the p800 Oct 06 17:44:56 causes some parallax Oct 06 17:45:37 The iPhone's parallax is epsilon. Oct 06 17:45:39 They cheated. :) Oct 06 17:45:51 Your finger is so massive compared to parallax that it doesn't matter. Oct 06 17:46:09 gopi_: is the anomoly related to one of the keypad points from the flip: Oct 06 17:46:35 gopi_: yes - the touch resolution is barely usable on p800 but excellent on neo Oct 06 17:47:18 I don't have my P800s with reach ATM. Oct 06 18:07:42 Is gtkmm & libglademm supported ? Oct 06 18:08:14 emre_: supported in which way? Oct 06 18:08:16 emre_: they are available Oct 06 18:09:09 When I try to compile pulse audio volume control program, at configure it gives the error | No package 'gtkmm-2.4' found Oct 06 18:09:09 | No package 'libglademm-2.4' found Oct 06 18:09:09 | No package 'sigc++-2.0' found Oct 06 18:09:14 with mokomakefile. Oct 06 18:10:03 I guess somehow I need to compile and install them into staging, right? Oct 06 18:37:25 emre_: why do you want to use gtkmm-2.4? The latest version doesn't please you? Oct 06 18:38:00 I'm trying to compile a pulseaudio volume control application, and it requires it. Oct 06 18:38:59 emre_: why do you want to use gtkmm-2.4? The latest version doesn't please you? Oct 06 18:39:26 loufoque: I'm trying to compile a pulseaudio volume control application, and it requires it. Oct 06 18:41:41 ok Oct 06 18:51:34 re Oct 06 18:56:53 loufoque: it is rather gtkmm 2.4 OR newer Oct 06 19:07:29 for some reason the pulseaudio volume control program does not work. Oct 06 19:21:32 w00t! Oct 06 19:22:53 ? Oct 06 19:23:01 ljp: hi Oct 06 19:23:19 hi zecke Oct 06 19:25:51 ljp: you got the handwritting working Oct 06 19:25:55 :) Oct 06 19:26:06 :) Oct 06 19:26:12 v good! Oct 06 19:26:19 once you get the hang of it :D Oct 06 19:26:33 just a theme thing Oct 06 19:26:37 ahh.. Oct 06 19:26:42 dont know why they named it "PhoneKeys" Oct 06 19:27:04 the screen lock is a bit iffy... (from the home screen padlock) Oct 06 19:27:10 leaves a key trail Oct 06 19:27:40 ya. someone made changes to exportedbackgrounds, I heard. havent looked into it, as the UI guys took a holiday Oct 06 19:27:49 but we get 4 more neos on Monday Oct 06 19:27:54 cool Oct 06 19:27:56 one is headed for the UI group Oct 06 19:28:07 it's working quite well ... Oct 06 19:28:23 glad that the timezone selection map is bigger too :D Oct 06 19:28:27 I have seen some instability creep in.. random crashing Oct 06 19:29:00 not had any yet, will keep testing though Oct 06 19:29:31 ljp: keyboard lack backspace Oct 06 19:29:42 which one? Oct 06 19:29:46 qtopia one Oct 06 19:29:49 wiki-problem: The upload directory (/space/www/wiki/images) is not writable by the webserver. Oct 06 19:30:23 ljp: I played a bit with qtopia image on one phone here Oct 06 19:30:29 kristian-m: Mind filing a bug report with some nice severity? Oct 06 19:30:48 hrw: I thought backspace is achieved by a stroke to the left Oct 06 19:30:51 I talked about the predictivekeyboard one backspace/backword thing. Oct 06 19:31:04 hrw: it does... it's tiny though Oct 06 19:31:06 to the inutmethod guy. he was open to changin it Oct 06 19:31:12 top right of the keyboard Oct 06 19:31:24 next to = Oct 06 19:32:17 alphaone: have you read the above? Oct 06 19:32:41 zecke: no, one moment Oct 06 19:35:42 abraxa_ done Oct 06 19:36:01 * * OM Bug 914 has been created by kristian(AT)mput.de Oct 06 19:36:02 * * File upload to wiki not working Oct 06 19:36:03 * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=914 Oct 06 19:36:06 kristian-m: Thanks :) Oct 06 20:09:42 ossman: ping Oct 06 20:10:34 Does anyone have a list of US wireless companies that the Neo 1973 will run on? Oct 06 20:11:30 mboldisc: any that offer GSM services Oct 06 20:11:32 i believe cingualr and t-mobile both have pre paid sim cards Oct 06 20:14:20 I'm really excited about the GPS capability of GTA02, any hints on what mapping software will be running? Oct 06 20:14:43 whatever people write on it Oct 06 20:16:51 i.e. it has not been worked on? Oct 06 20:17:02 i doubt Oct 06 20:17:08 doh Oct 06 20:17:10 you should see openstreetmap Oct 06 20:17:28 there are clients that might be somewhat easily portable to neo Oct 06 20:17:29 Mapping software is not maps. Oct 06 20:17:51 SpeedEvil: openstreetmap + client software for it - happier? Oct 06 20:18:23 client software for OSM - yes. Oct 06 20:18:29 I don't think JOSM will cut it :) Oct 06 20:18:45 yeah, there are no good options as it is Oct 06 20:19:08 Well - there is GPS logging then JOSM on desktop Oct 06 20:19:14 but that was just one place to start looking for options and maybe pointers on how to do it Oct 06 20:19:20 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Openstreetmap Oct 06 20:19:21 I see, so the software isn't the problem, it's the map data? Oct 06 20:19:42 maps are mostly closed Oct 06 20:19:47 Openstreetmap supplies rudimentary data for most of the planet, and pretty compleete for US and NL Oct 06 20:19:48 argh Oct 06 20:19:59 morelike only closed and they cost money Oct 06 20:20:08 Tiger and AND data have been donated by various bodies. Oct 06 20:20:51 i hope governments start to offer some geospatial data for free Oct 06 20:21:17 Unlikely in many countries. Oct 06 20:21:21 true Oct 06 20:21:38 unlikely in finland... Oct 06 20:21:46 The tendancy in the past hundred years has been to spin-out the mapping arm of government into the private sector Oct 06 20:22:00 even though it can easily be seen that not much money is made from taking the highest possible price from it Oct 06 20:22:13 same with weather data Oct 06 20:22:14 for example, in the US, it went fairly recently - and is now a largely commercial orientation. Oct 06 20:22:25 Supported by data sales. Oct 06 20:22:48 in the US there's volume to actually get the process going. here in finland i doubt... Oct 06 20:48:40 Good rendering of maps is often a problem, but if the data were there I think many more apps would come. Oct 06 20:48:59 IMHO, one of the serious issues is that map licensing and FOSS are really, really incompatible. Oct 06 20:49:34 like FOSS and DRM. Oct 06 20:50:05 Hmm, DRM for FOSS, so noone can remove the licence ;) Oct 06 20:57:49 NL and US have pretty good maps in openstreetmap - at least in a few weeks when the tiger import completes Oct 06 20:58:01 (it's currently stalled due to disk space problems) Oct 06 20:58:19 Ooh. New Tiger data? I haven't been paying attention for awhle. Oct 06 20:58:31 1/3(?) of the US has been imported. Oct 06 20:58:49 What is Tiger? Oct 06 20:59:00 US Census Bureau, Tiger Line Data. Oct 06 20:59:07 oh, ok Oct 06 20:59:18 Every block of every street, start and end lat/lon, left/right street numbers. Oct 06 20:59:27 totally free. Oct 06 21:00:35 nice Oct 06 21:01:17 AIUI, it's the starting point for more proprietary data sets too. Oct 06 21:06:54 openmoko-mediaplayer is too damn slow. Oct 06 21:07:41 it works for you? it gives me an error everytime I try to launch it Oct 06 21:08:06 I just find out why. Oct 06 21:08:17 you need to install pulseaudio plugins for gstreamer Oct 06 21:08:32 morning Oct 06 21:08:32 ipkg install gst-plugin-pulse Oct 06 21:08:40 ahhh...okay :) Oct 06 21:08:58 mornin Oct 06 21:09:09 but the quality is too bad. Oct 06 21:09:19 there is no continuous sound. Oct 06 21:09:35 abraxa_ knows about this, I think. Oct 06 21:09:37 what sort of file? Oct 06 21:09:44 ogg Oct 06 21:09:51 mp3 may use less CPU Oct 06 21:10:01 ok, let me try. Oct 06 21:14:11 no mp3 does not work either. Oct 06 21:14:58 madplay used to work decent with mp3's Oct 06 21:15:03 but the problem is either with the mediaplayer. because none of the console players has a performance problem. Oct 06 21:15:17 i tried all madplay, ogg123, paplay. Oct 06 21:15:44 the problem with madplay & ogg123 is that they are not aware of pulseaudio, so they don't work always. Oct 06 21:15:49 and paplay only plays wavs Oct 06 21:16:03 hmm - midori seems to be failing to build ... Oct 06 21:16:06 ahhh...that's why madplay quite working for me Oct 06 21:23:15 * rwhitby flashes latest image for some testing ... Oct 06 21:23:28 so what's the latest on gsmd - can I remove the restart in xsession yet? Oct 06 21:35:02 rwhitby: FWIW I just flashed the latest (just finished building) and it sends and receives calls without restart in xsession Oct 06 21:35:45 cindy: thx Oct 06 23:38:18 NOTE: package fontconfig-2.4.1-r1: task do_fetch: failed Oct 06 23:38:21 :( Oct 07 02:56:30 I lost my freakin' mobile phone ... now I'm really dying for a Neo1973 Oct 07 02:57:04 its a sign **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sun Oct 07 02:59:57 2007