**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Oct 11 02:59:57 2007 Oct 11 03:00:03 than it won't work probably... Oct 11 03:00:22 oh? Oct 11 03:00:41 Quinn_Storm: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Carriers/ATT Oct 11 03:00:48 yeah just found it Oct 11 03:01:59 mine's a 4022, claimed to work Oct 11 03:03:10 * Quinn_Storm sends the moko firmware back to it for now Oct 11 03:08:53 Quinn_Storm: There is some suspicion that there's more to it than just the SIM. The GTA01 was not FCC-certified for the 850MHz band, which AT&T uses heavily. Oct 11 03:09:08 so it won't run on 850? Oct 11 03:09:26 (I think most of the local towers here are 850's) Oct 11 03:10:12 We don't know for sure, but there has been no evidence that the unit will speak on 850MHz, and technically it shouldn't if it doesn't have FCC type-acceptance. Oct 11 03:10:49 So, there may be a problem with the SIMs, or the 850MHz, or a combination of both, we don't know, and Openmoko hasn't seen fit to clarify the situation yet. Oct 11 03:11:10 well if it won't speak 850 then its basically useless to me Oct 11 03:11:58 * mwester uses a Treo on AT&T, with a company-paid unlimited data plan, so he's hoping it gets fixed at some point so he can stop using the T-mobile pay-as-you-go SIM... Oct 11 03:12:13 I can't afford another phone plan myself Oct 11 03:12:34 That's why I went with the pre-paid for development purposes. Oct 11 03:13:18 It suffices, and I hope that it buys time until the problem is addressed, then I'll switch the SIM out of the TREO into the Neo. Oct 11 03:16:34 I guess if I stick with this thing I can pick up a cheap t-mo paygo thing Oct 11 03:17:16 I found mine on ebay - $8 for a $10 prepaid SIM. Oct 11 03:19:06 T-Mobile's data plan doesn't work with the prepaid, but others have mentioned that it's simply restricted to a set T-Mobile web sites -- in other words, not useful for surfing, but perfectly adequate for testing the data connections. Oct 11 03:19:27 yeah the prepaid goes to the t-zones wap stuff, but nowhere else Oct 11 03:42:14 so, how do I do commands to the modem to figure this stuff out? I just don't have any ideas about where to start, there's no minicom or anything on the rootfs, nor do I know which dev the modem is Oct 11 03:42:36 It's in the wiki Oct 11 03:42:56 Look under GSM_Modem and various other getting started pointers Oct 11 03:43:07 ah ok, found it Oct 11 03:44:43 ugh, my modem is hanging at connected Oct 11 03:53:59 AT+COPS is only showing T-Mobile, so yeah I'm scrude Oct 11 03:55:40 ah well Oct 11 03:55:44 * Quinn_Storm puts that sim back into her iphone Oct 11 04:03:54 hmm.. is the processor in the neo big-endian or little endian? Oct 11 04:07:51 okay... the processor can run as both... but does anyone know in what mode it is used? Oct 11 04:10:39 Mek afaik le Oct 11 04:48:15 hai everyone Oct 11 05:02:59 nice... openttd is quite playable on the neo/openmoko :) Oct 11 05:25:11 how can i disable the boot-up sound on the Neo1973? Oct 11 05:26:17 mbuf: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Boot_sound Oct 11 05:27:11 we need a bot that matches parts of people's questions to wiki pages and automatically gives the url :P Oct 11 05:27:52 gi-el; jep :) Oct 11 05:27:53 fgau, thanks Oct 11 05:56:34 how do I stop MokoMakefile from buidling qemu since I don't have gcc 3 installed? Oct 11 06:03:31 notserpe choose a target and not all Oct 11 06:03:57 make openmoko-devel-image is choosing a target, no? Oct 11 06:04:05 notserpe make openmoko-devel-tools openmoko-devel-image Oct 11 06:04:09 instead of just make Oct 11 06:04:20 I'm not just typing make Oct 11 06:04:25 only 'make' expands to make all which expands to make openmoko-devel-image openmoko-devel-tools build-qemu openmoko-feed Oct 11 06:05:23 openmoko-devel-image does only need qemu for locale generation Oct 11 06:05:40 so you either disable locale generation or install gcc 3.x Oct 11 06:07:38 good morning Oct 11 06:09:03 ah ok. Oct 11 06:11:53 new Moto phones for 2008 leaked http://www.unwiredview.com/2007/10/10/motorolasnew-strategy-and-phones-8-mpx-motorola-scarven-5mpx-motorola-z12-xpixl-motorola-rokr-e10-texel-motorola-qx-genghis/ Oct 11 06:21:13 hmm US$99 Palm Centro unboxed http://www.engadgetmobile.com/gallery/palm-centro-unboxing-1/433535/ Oct 11 06:25:04 Hello Everybody Oct 11 06:25:18 Need one clarification Oct 11 06:25:50 Unless the uboot is borked, the phone won't be bricked, right? Oct 11 06:25:59 I mean while flashing Oct 11 06:29:46 raddy: correct Oct 11 06:30:09 ljp: thank you Oct 11 06:30:34 ljp: is there a safe way to upgrade uboot ? Oct 11 06:32:23 just make sure you use a known good one Oct 11 06:33:10 ljp: isn't there way to unbrick it without using some kind of debug boards Oct 11 06:34:52 yes, if you have a debug board you can recover froma bad uboot Oct 11 06:53:58 is there any example for GTKTreeView with GTKTreeStore, that runs some backend code, and then updates the GTKTreeStore backend results to GTKTreeView GUI? Oct 11 07:18:38 hi. http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 has a link to Santa's Sleigh Package Service but that page does not exist :( Oct 11 07:22:01 * * OM Bug 919 has been created by broset(AT)gmail.com Oct 11 07:22:01 * * No FM receiver in Hardware? Oct 11 07:22:02 * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=919 Oct 11 07:25:54 what kind of stupid bug is that Oct 11 07:26:01 * * OM Bug 920 has been created by broset(AT)gmail.com Oct 11 07:26:02 * * No photo camera in Hardware? Oct 11 07:26:03 * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=920 Oct 11 07:28:25 *sigh* Oct 11 07:35:07 hi guys, I can't use dfu-util anymore... it is finding an usb connection that doesn't exist and when I plug the neo into the usb I got 2 usbs connection... does anyone have an idea about it? Oct 11 07:36:00 use -d 0x1457:0x5119 Oct 11 07:36:30 roh thanks.. I'm going to try it Oct 11 07:36:58 the other one is probably your bluetooth module Oct 11 07:37:32 or some cardreader Oct 11 07:48:23 moin...I can't build webkit-gtk Oct 11 07:48:36 i got this error: http://pastebin.ca/732779 Oct 11 07:49:04 roh uhm got it... but it didn't exist yesterday... whatever, -d worked ;) thanks... Oct 11 07:50:08 any hints? Oct 11 07:51:10 yay it arrived Oct 11 07:51:54 vivijim eventually it was switched off (rf-kill or software switch). it also vanishes from usb when i hit the rf-kill on my thinkpad here Oct 11 07:55:01 Hello Everybody Oct 11 07:56:02 In what license software developers should get the openmoko sdk? Oct 11 07:57:14 ? Oct 11 07:58:19 see openembedded licensing (i believe it's gpl) Oct 11 08:01:46 is http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Flashing_openmoko up-to-date? Oct 11 08:01:51 raddy most of the stuff is gpl. some is lgpl and i dunno what else (compatible licenses) Oct 11 08:02:43 berkus what of it? the commands how to flash did not change Oct 11 08:02:58 roh: right. i'm more referring to selection of images Oct 11 08:03:06 are there some preferred ones to try first? Oct 11 08:05:18 hmm i plugged it into usb and it started blinking the screen weirdly, is that normal? Oct 11 08:05:19 uhm.. i use my own builds here.. so dunno. Oct 11 08:05:33 berkus is a battery inserted? Oct 11 08:05:35 ok, i'll grab latest official one then Oct 11 08:05:42 no i guess battery is not in yet Oct 11 08:06:00 well.. thats not intended use ;) Oct 11 08:09:50 heh, just looks scary Oct 11 08:11:10 Hello Everybody Oct 11 08:11:54 Is it legal to develop commercial closed source applications for openmoko? Oct 11 08:12:20 raddy that depends on what you link against. Oct 11 08:12:33 re Oct 11 08:13:43 roh: ohh, little complicated answer Oct 11 08:14:06 roh: if i use gtk2 stack Oct 11 08:16:52 so what's up on the side of power management? Oct 11 08:16:54 raddy: gtk is lgpl Oct 11 08:17:29 zash`: so, i can develop commercial closed source applications Oct 11 08:17:34 yes. Oct 11 08:17:58 as long as you keep only using lgpl libs yes Oct 11 08:18:01 however, you must check the licencing of everyhting you link against ro any code you use Oct 11 08:18:22 s/ro/or/ Oct 11 08:18:22 ScaredyCat meant: however, you must check the licencing of everyhting you link against or any code you use Oct 11 08:18:46 lgpl or better... Oct 11 08:19:16 but then it depends on your stance... Oct 11 08:20:41 what exactly is uicmoc4? Oct 11 08:21:17 qt tools Oct 11 08:23:53 notserpe: specifically, it converts qt meta-code (eg, for signals and slots) into raw C++ Oct 11 08:24:30 well, that's what moc does... uic does a similar thing but for .ui GUI definitions Oct 11 08:25:50 do we know what needs it? Oct 11 08:25:53 why does it seem to be breaking my openmoko-devel-image build? Oct 11 08:32:10 ok, so there's quite a lot but it's essentially webkit's dependancy on qmake Oct 11 08:32:35 iirc removing feed-reader from your build will help Oct 11 08:37:18 and openmoko-browser2 if you build that Oct 11 09:02:30 uic converts ui xml files to c++ Oct 11 09:03:07 qmake dependancy shouldn't depend on uic/moc is they are not specified in qmake .pro files btw Oct 11 09:03:14 s/is/if/ Oct 11 09:03:15 berkus meant: qmake dependancy shouldn't depend on uic/moc if they are not specified in qmake .pro files btw Oct 11 09:15:58 is this ok when flashing the kernel: error clear_status: error sending control message: Connection timed out Oct 11 09:16:37 ahh, not ok Oct 11 09:16:40 fixed it now Oct 11 09:52:17 Hmm... After upgrading OE metadata: Oct 11 09:52:20 OSError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory: '/stuff/build/iit/tmp/work/i586-linux/bash-3.2-r1/install/bash-locale' Oct 11 09:52:36 ERROR: '/stuff/openembedded/packages/bash/bash_3.2.bb' failed Oct 11 10:04:32 what brand of protective film will fit neo screen by default? Oct 11 10:06:44 berkus: I've got some that work well - inside the case. Oct 11 10:06:56 berkus: you open the case and put them on under it. Oct 11 10:07:15 $5 inc shipping. (I meant to put them on ebay) Oct 11 10:07:35 s/meant/mean/ Oct 11 10:07:35 SpeedEvil meant: $5 inc shipping. (I mean to put them on ebay) Oct 11 10:08:28 umm interesting Oct 11 10:08:44 that might work Oct 11 10:09:13 .oO(i never got why people have nice shiny devices just to wrap them up in plastic again) Oct 11 10:09:20 (global shipping) Oct 11 10:09:27 roh: it's actually invisible. Oct 11 10:09:36 roh: and can be replaced if you scratch it. Oct 11 10:09:43 roh: because the screen scratches, gets dusty and wears out Oct 11 10:09:56 well.. i rather am searching for clear laminator-foil which is strechable Oct 11 10:10:05 my pda got serious wearout on the screen's protective film over two years Oct 11 10:10:09 berkus well.. thats life. Oct 11 10:10:20 well, i just replace the film et voila Oct 11 10:10:31 hardware withouut scratches never hasexperienced real use *duck* Oct 11 10:10:48 heh. bruised cpus all over Oct 11 10:11:10 where does Media Player look for files? i can't make it make a sound Oct 11 10:16:45 roh: :D Oct 11 10:31:00 roh: why stretcaBE? Oct 11 10:31:07 stretchable Oct 11 10:31:46 hmm.. i'm missing the top icons bar now Oct 11 10:31:50 how do i get that back? Oct 11 10:32:25 SpeedEvil because i want to build a waterproof neo to mount in my shower Oct 11 10:32:30 roh: ah. Oct 11 10:33:31 so it needs to me clear, not milk-style as normal laminator-foil and strechable to laminate it all around, but not where the display sits. Oct 11 10:33:41 s/me/be Oct 11 10:34:15 There is the alternative. Oct 11 10:34:39 Glue the display surround with hot-melt to a thick bit of plastic. Oct 11 10:34:49 Now vacuum impregnate with epoxy. Oct 11 10:35:02 (including battery/microSD/SIM Oct 11 10:35:15 remove plastic, fit back in case. Oct 11 10:35:35 Or not :) Oct 11 10:36:21 Hey, guys. I could use some help figuring out how OpenMoko is organized. Oct 11 10:36:29 xyzzy_bill: sporadically. Oct 11 10:36:37 SpeedEvil ;) Oct 11 10:37:07 I've done some digging, but still cant figure out who's driving the top level integration, and what they're working on. Who decides what the binary image looks like? Oct 11 10:37:23 whoever builds it? ;-) Oct 11 10:38:10 xyzzy_bill: there is unfortunately no clear overview document. Oct 11 10:38:30 That says 'this is what we are doing, here is who is working on each bit' Oct 11 10:38:41 'here is what we need help with.' Oct 11 10:39:10 SpeedEvil. Thanks for the info. Who writes/maintains the Today app? Oct 11 10:39:46 Dunno, sorry. It's probably safe to say that posting on the mailing list will get some response. Oct 11 10:39:55 Probably community - maybe another list. Oct 11 10:39:58 lists.openmoko.org Oct 11 10:41:10 brownian motion ftw Oct 11 10:42:46 xyzzy_bill the guys at opened hand do the apps Oct 11 10:43:04 roh: Thanks. Oct 11 10:43:15 for apps there is openmoko-apps@lists.openmoko.org Oct 11 10:50:20 when just pluggng usb to a neo that is powered off, does it actually charge without booting into u-boot or linux? Oct 11 10:51:28 yes, slowly Oct 11 10:51:37 if everything is off Oct 11 10:52:06 it may not be by default - you may need to remove the battery for 5 min, then replace to ensure this. Oct 11 10:52:38 Then after an hours charge, it should have enough power to boot. Oct 11 10:52:44 Even from a flat battery. Oct 11 10:52:57 (no, this isn't optimal, and needs fixed in various ways) Oct 11 11:03:10 hmm qtopia is very slow for some reason Oct 11 11:21:00 * * OM Bug 921 has been created by hrw(AT)openedhand.com Oct 11 11:21:01 * * launcher does not allow to run applications Oct 11 11:21:02 * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=921 Oct 11 11:23:09 why does the neo sometimes forget the time when laying around without battery and sometimes it does not? Oct 11 11:24:25 Dunno. Oct 11 11:24:56 what is the plan? is there a clock inside powered by some capacitor? Oct 11 11:25:32 emdete: battery Oct 11 11:25:41 emdete: there's a second small battery hidden in a corner Oct 11 11:25:56 for clock only? Oct 11 11:26:24 * cesarb isn't 100% sure it's connected to the PMU, however... there are at least 3 RTCs in this phone Oct 11 11:26:38 wow... Oct 11 11:27:37 so how long do those last? Oct 11 11:27:51 ...not those - the battery Oct 11 11:28:14 emdete: don't know, but should last a long time (most phones do that, most _computers_ do that...) Oct 11 11:28:47 wouldn't agree on 'most phones' but shure, the computer does Oct 11 11:29:16 emdete: so far I've seen only one phone which loses the clock when you remove the battery Oct 11 11:29:28 emdete: that same phone also is unable to get the clock from the GSM network, which is annoying Oct 11 11:29:29 cesarb: i've seen alot :/ Oct 11 11:30:03 cesarb: u are lucky - your provider does send the time, mine doesn't Oct 11 11:30:12 <_diego_> emdete: it's possible that you changed the system date and then not properly shutdown the phone? Oct 11 11:30:33 _diego_: ? shure Oct 11 11:30:40 emdete: lucky unless the daylight saving time just started/stopped, since it takes them some time to adjust the clocks (about a week...) Oct 11 11:30:47 but i removed battery for half an hour Oct 11 11:30:59 <_diego_> for what i know, linux uses a software clock, so you have to sinc RTC and linux time Oct 11 11:31:04 _diego_: I think it's most probable that something set the date wrong... Oct 11 11:31:34 <_diego_> have you tried to run hwclock? Oct 11 11:31:51 in the past i always had date/time 1/1/2000 when the neo started - today i had the proper time Oct 11 11:32:10 _diego_: yes Oct 11 11:32:27 that stuff seems to work Oct 11 11:33:12 <_diego_> i've noticed a month ago, that the linux time was not sync'ed with RTC when resume from suspended Oct 11 11:33:31 <_diego_> maybe, you have similar problems Oct 11 11:35:13 oups... hm. i seem to have screwed up my neo... the thing i am working on is a reliable gprs connection right now. that's the cause that i put the neo away without battery because switching the gsm on/off or resetting crashed the neo. it just stopps responding to anything. Oct 11 11:35:36 and now it crashed when i uses hwclock :/ Oct 11 11:35:58 any idea what may be wrong here? Oct 11 11:36:19 ..and i have no debug board :( Oct 11 11:38:31 hm, nobody any idea? Oct 11 11:40:36 <_diego_> no, sorry Oct 11 11:42:07 is there any news about which email client will be used for om? Oct 11 11:43:43 gamin tinymail I guess Oct 11 11:43:56 sure? Oct 11 11:44:10 I see no other option Oct 11 11:44:21 the code is quite a mess and the ui too Oct 11 11:44:40 gamin???? Oct 11 11:45:58 he mickeyl Oct 11 11:46:00 * * OM Bug 922 has been created by hrw(AT)openedhand.com Oct 11 11:46:01 * * Order of buttons in 'Delete contact' requester is wrong Oct 11 11:46:02 * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=922 Oct 11 11:46:50 mickeyl you are still in berlin? Oct 11 11:46:53 hi Oct 11 11:47:07 mickey|berlin: Greetings from Taipei Oct 11 11:47:13 hi stefan Oct 11 11:47:22 hi woglinde Oct 11 11:47:23 yes. sitting at Hackesche Markt in Starbucks atm. Have a meeting with a UI Interaction Artist @ 1500. Afterwards, taking an ICE home Oct 11 11:47:30 hey stefan_schmidt ! Oct 11 11:48:03 mickey|berlin: 1500 is long over. You are in the wrong timezone :) Oct 11 11:48:24 * alphaone waves Oct 11 11:48:25 Please nobody take me serious right now, 28 hours up now. :) Oct 11 11:48:54 stefan_schmidt: I usually don't take you seriously anyway ;-) Oct 11 11:48:55 stefan take some sleep Oct 11 11:48:58 hi alphaone Oct 11 11:49:04 hi woglinde Oct 11 11:49:32 woglinde: We need to adjust to the new timezone, so first day is going to be hard. Oct 11 11:49:46 * stefan_schmidt mumbles something about the young dudes not even ale to be as long awake as the older ones Oct 11 11:50:09 woglinde: We will sleep in ~3 hours Oct 11 11:50:25 Hey, I'm 25! Oct 11 11:50:35 alphaone: kid Oct 11 11:51:09 hihi Oct 11 11:51:30 We have OpenMoko Inc. cubicles for our 2,5 weeks. :) Oct 11 11:52:44 stefan_schmidt: Sean back yet? Oct 11 11:52:44 heh. right Oct 11 11:52:45 stefan_schmidt: i'm going to call mcpfenning tomorrow and see whether he can find me a flight next week. could you ask Sean whether he thinks this'll be a good idea? Oct 11 11:52:50 stefan_schmidt: if I come next week, i'd like to return with you guys on 28th Oct 11 11:53:01 ~lart gprs lag Oct 11 11:53:02 * apt runs at gprs lag with an origami Swiss Army knife, and inflicts a nasty paper cut Oct 11 11:53:18 lol Oct 11 11:53:20 mickey|berlin: Sean is still in china. Should be back tomorrow evening. Oct 11 11:53:45 hmm Oct 11 11:53:51 mickey|berlin: We'll ask him. But I think that should be fine. Would give the chances for core team meetings... Oct 11 11:54:05 ok, i'll just sms him then Oct 11 11:54:22 mickey|berlin: Perhaps better if you need an fast answer. Oct 11 11:55:02 mickey|berlin: But you must go to the apartment. The hotel is just to great. ;) Oct 11 11:55:04 mickey|berlin: Cool, so we'll be even more people here :-) Oct 11 11:55:43 alphaone: well, yeah. i would have to seriously disappoint people when i go, but hmm... that's my job :/ Oct 11 11:55:53 stefan_schmidt: are you in the Pacific Business Center? Oct 11 11:56:14 mickey|berlin: :-/ There'll be better times around. Oct 11 11:56:38 No, we are at the Sunworld Dynasty Hotel Oct 11 11:56:51 well, i will miss the Kirchenwochenende and at least 2 table tennis league games... Oct 11 11:57:03 hmm sunworld dynasty... sounds expensive Oct 11 11:57:03 http://www.sunworlddynasty.com.tw/Eng/Home/Index.aspx Oct 11 11:57:06 tsss Oct 11 11:57:40 mickey|berlin: Only because the overbooked apartment. Oct 11 11:58:07 yea. well, LaF0rge will soon depart won't he? Oct 11 11:58:15 which means there'll be room for me in the apartment Oct 11 11:58:30 mickey|berlin: Let me check Oct 11 11:58:57 mickey|berlin: Something like a week Oct 11 11:59:10 ok, sounds like good timing Oct 11 11:59:30 although i'd like to see him more than just one day... well *shrug* Oct 11 12:00:06 mickey|berlin: He is in .tw car driving mode. Makes him fun and me mostly cry. ;) Oct 11 12:00:23 uh oh Oct 11 12:00:35 It's cool :) Oct 11 12:00:45 stefan_schmidt: is will anyway near? XorA|gone had a stellar idea yesterday for the next OpenMoko talk Oct 11 12:01:20 mickey|berlin: Moment, I ping him, if he can join #openmoko Oct 11 12:01:49 can someone tell me what i do wrong here: http://rafb.net/p/neGyBd69.html? after the last line the neo is frozen... also more power switching on the gsm freeze the neo. Oct 11 12:02:01 * * OM Bug 923 has been created by hrw(AT)openedhand.com Oct 11 12:02:02 mickey|berlin: I'll just forwarded you the most recent openmoko appartment calendar I have. Oct 11 12:02:02 * * "Dial" and "Message" buttons are not available after adding phone number Oct 11 12:02:02 * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=923 Oct 11 12:02:05 make him join openmoko-devel, it needs to be a surprise for everyone else it's boring Oct 11 12:02:10 So you can see for yourself. Oct 11 12:02:22 alphaone: right. thanks Oct 11 12:03:05 mickey|berlin: will is there Oct 11 12:03:59 If now somebody can explain me why I hear german "volksmusik" through our window in Taiwan? Oct 11 12:04:12 :D Oct 11 12:04:13 stefan lol Oct 11 12:04:27 stefan some kind of parade? Oct 11 12:04:42 woglinde: No, it seems fixed. Oct 11 12:05:06 anyone an idea on my frozen neo? Oct 11 12:07:59 stefan_schmidt: obviously somebody wants to punish you Oct 11 12:08:47 openmoko soft stinks again Oct 11 12:09:16 emdete http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=788 Oct 11 12:09:19 emdete no new bug. Oct 11 12:10:05 someone has idea WHY dialer waits for network registration? I can dial from libgsmd-tool in atcmd mode at same time... Oct 11 12:10:09 buz: It seems so. Perhaps they followed me the whole way from .de Oct 11 12:10:24 probably are pissed they didnt get a neo in the first shipment ;) Oct 11 12:11:26 buz: hmm, perhaps I should throw one on them then. ;) Oct 11 12:11:31 hrw: once i have three days without distraction, i'll rework the gsmd <-> mokogsmdconnection a bit Oct 11 12:12:14 mickey|berlin: We could look you in a room in taipei. Just water and bread until it works smooth. Oct 11 12:12:59 mickey|berlin: great Oct 11 12:14:10 buz: thanks alot. do you know when the fix will be in oe/om? Oct 11 12:14:19 stefan_schmidt: smooth is probably not going to happen without LaF0rge's work, but there's a definite room for improvement. i just loathe the current interaction scheme between the apps and mokogsmdconnection and gsmd Oct 11 12:14:23 emdete: ? Oct 11 12:15:24 mickey|berlin: yup Oct 11 12:15:59 a gobject calling /etc/init.d/foo is just horrible :D Oct 11 12:16:28 buz: as i understand the patch at the end will fix this, because i am not /that/ familar with oe i wonder when it will go into the build - or is it already? Oct 11 12:16:45 you must be mistaken me with som eone Oct 11 12:16:58 oups :D Oct 11 12:17:18 you 3-letter guys, sry, roh was meant :D Oct 11 12:17:29 mickey|berlin: psst, don't tell anybody, or they start looking at the code. :) Oct 11 12:19:20 stefan_schmidt: yeah... well, it's not that bad, just this particular abstraction violating is very annyoing. Oct 11 12:19:29 s/violating/violation/ Oct 11 12:19:29 mickey|berlin meant: stefan_schmidt: yeah... well, it's not that bad, just this particular abstraction violation is very annyoing. Oct 11 12:19:35 mickey|berlin: does OpenMoko inc. will get software department? Oct 11 12:19:54 hrw: yes Oct 11 12:20:15 before GTA05? Oct 11 12:21:16 yes Oct 11 12:21:21 :) Oct 11 12:21:24 in 2008 Oct 11 12:21:51 mickey|berlin: today I have 'openmoko testing day' and all I can say is 'fuck!' Oct 11 12:22:03 hrw: yes, that corresponds with my feeling Oct 11 12:22:40 dialer does not get any connection with gsmd, contacts has own new bugs etc Oct 11 12:22:41 one of the reasons I'm going to rush with my .tw visit Oct 11 12:22:59 and ofcourse gsmd died Oct 11 12:23:06 ~fuck harald Oct 11 12:23:15 nah Oct 11 12:23:39 looks like gsmd should be started from inittab Oct 11 12:23:41 look at how clean our kernel is. Oct 11 12:24:09 mickey|berlin: sure, but this is phone... Oct 11 12:24:11 no. for the time being we just need an external watchdog Oct 11 12:24:17 roh: the 'thank you' above was for you - do you know if the patch mentioned in the bugreport will be included soon? Oct 11 12:24:31 phone is expected to dial.. Oct 11 12:24:50 would ubuntu's upstart system be possible to run on the neo? Oct 11 12:24:51 ERROR processing packet: -16(Unknown error 4294967280) Oct 11 12:24:54 ERROR processing packet: -21(Unknown error 4294967275) Oct 11 12:24:58 lot of them ;( Oct 11 12:25:03 Vegar: yes Oct 11 12:25:08 Vegar: i hope so. Oct 11 12:25:20 Vegar: this is what i'd like to see eventually Oct 11 12:25:21 is it on some roadmap? Oct 11 12:25:40 yes, but the roadmap has no dates ;) Oct 11 12:25:46 I believe upstart would solve some of the issues with the current init system Oct 11 12:25:51 good look pushing bugfixes upstream if ubuntu is upstream Oct 11 12:26:20 well, upstart is not the silver bullet, but it will bring some speed and sanity thanks to the dependency based system Oct 11 12:26:21 like sleeping before starting gsmd Oct 11 12:26:39 yeah but the ubuntu devs are *somewhat* stubborn Oct 11 12:26:42 it's a nice concept Oct 11 12:26:45 hehe, yeah Oct 11 12:27:50 for example, they seem to think it's perfectly ok for an update to break sound on just about any recent dell notebooks Oct 11 12:28:26 or introduce custom patches that break whole pacakges for no apparent reason Oct 11 12:29:15 well, there are alternatives Oct 11 12:29:19 init-ng Oct 11 12:29:21 busybox init Oct 11 12:29:26 sun's thingy Oct 11 12:29:40 buz: they seem quite reluctant to do just about anything that's not their idea/solution to a problem Oct 11 12:30:31 that's a problem of many upstream authors Oct 11 12:32:10 s/of/with/ Oct 11 12:32:10 mickey|berlin meant: that's a problem with many upstream authors Oct 11 12:34:01 Vegar well.. often people have sane reasons for thei decisions.. saying that somebody is stubborn because he does not merge every patch would be somehow short-sighted Oct 11 12:39:00 * * OM Bug 924 has been created by alex(AT)alexdalton.org Oct 11 12:39:01 * * Build uinput module by default Oct 11 12:39:02 * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=924 Oct 11 12:47:53 * ScaredyCat wonders if anyone has considered a fon client for 02 Oct 11 12:54:59 which package contains `socat`? Oct 11 12:55:51 if i send AT@POFF to the modem does echo 1 > ...power_on wake it up again? Oct 11 13:09:09 So when are they gonna start releasing details about the GTA03? Oct 11 13:09:57 there is no GTA03 Oct 11 13:10:31 I was under the impression that GTA02 was not going to be the last phone Oct 11 13:10:45 Just the first publicly released phone Oct 11 13:10:54 i think the gta02 needs to be done first Oct 11 13:11:08 and the softare platform worked on before churning out a nw hardware line Oct 11 13:11:19 theres a LOT of work to do there Oct 11 13:11:24 never hurts to start planning early Oct 11 13:11:25 <_diego_> dtx, probably. AFAICS there is no gta03.... yet Oct 11 13:11:33 ;-) Oct 11 13:11:37 and chanign hw is just going to waste time in adapting to new hw instead of focusing on getting the software right Oct 11 13:11:44 not changing Oct 11 13:11:48 planning for next release Oct 11 13:11:51 the gta-02 has all the things "right" that needed fixing - or most. Oct 11 13:12:15 right, but for instance a phone with a flipout keyboard would be sweet Oct 11 13:12:23 yes Oct 11 13:12:35 but lets get this stuff right ... first Oct 11 13:12:40 <_diego_> don't make sense, projecting now a new model, till gta02 is on the wild ^^ Oct 11 13:12:41 * cjb_ie fancies the road s101, if it would ever turn into non-vapourware. Oct 11 13:12:59 s101? Oct 11 13:13:07 for the hardware, i'd appreciate a phone that would have good protection for the lcd and for the camera lense Oct 11 13:13:11 and that's about it :/ Oct 11 13:13:20 and a camera, you mean ;-) Oct 11 13:13:28 i wonder if it would be any closer to release if they'd followed the fic/openmoko model Oct 11 13:13:49 what model is that? Oct 11 13:14:48 the stinky squid model Oct 11 13:14:51 dtx: I disagree about the keyboard. I owned an iPhone for a while, and the touch-keyborad is pretty fast after you get use to it. The small screen is a way bigger limitation, IMO Oct 11 13:15:16 xyzzy_bill: there is something to be said about tactile feel of keys Oct 11 13:15:20 dtx - not trying to do everything in-house Oct 11 13:15:21 yeah Oct 11 13:15:26 its very easy to know you hit a key and which one it is Oct 11 13:15:36 agreed Oct 11 13:15:36 and it saves on screen space Oct 11 13:16:03 raster: I agree... it takes getting use to use the iPhone keyboard well. Still, the super-tiny vt100 display was more of a problem for me than the keyboard. Oct 11 13:16:05 also without multitouch touch screen has limited value Oct 11 13:16:07 :-P Oct 11 13:16:23 dtx: very much so Oct 11 13:16:32 dtx: I never used multi-touch on the iPhone, except for some gee-whiz stuff. Oct 11 13:16:37 so for now - i think a hw kbd could be good Oct 11 13:16:44 sure, but iPhone is limited Oct 11 13:16:52 xyzzy_bill: with the kbd - guarante you did Oct 11 13:16:55 dtx: In particular, zoom in and out. We could do that with hold button and drag up/down on the screen. Oct 11 13:16:55 I want to do a lot with this little phone Oct 11 13:17:06 xyzzy_bill: you press 1 key and before you lift your finger - you press another Oct 11 13:17:11 a small overlap in time Oct 11 13:17:16 of both being pressed Oct 11 13:17:47 without multitouch that would register as pushing a key in between the two Oct 11 13:18:04 raster: But that wont require sensing two fingers at once, we just need to follow it around. Oct 11 13:18:27 dtx: bingo Oct 11 13:18:41 xyzzy_bill: yes - it does actually Oct 11 13:18:48 raster: why? Oct 11 13:19:16 raster: oh, I see what you're thinking. Oct 11 13:19:17 xyzzy_bill: because it will not look lik another scren press Oct 11 13:19:28 it will look like the mouse moved half way between the 2 keys Oct 11 13:19:31 as dtx said Oct 11 13:19:40 Also I plan on playing some games Oct 11 13:19:51 So I want simultaneous key presses Oct 11 13:19:54 ;-) Oct 11 13:20:13 raster: on iPhone, I never pressed two keys at once. I wasn't that fast. Instead, I'd have to look to see which key was registered as pressed (it showed up over my finger) to make sure I had it right before letting go. Oct 11 13:20:13 or a flipout keyboard Oct 11 13:20:28 raster: That doesn't require multi-touch. Oct 11 13:20:35 the iPhone has autocorrection Oct 11 13:20:46 normally you do not watch every highlighted key but just type ... Oct 11 13:21:11 Well, regardless I like that octokey implementation Oct 11 13:21:12 xyzzy_bill: you didnt get fast enough yet then :) Oct 11 13:21:14 rxr: I always had to watch it. Oct 11 13:21:15 it's very nice Oct 11 13:21:38 raster: true, not as fast as I'm typing here, but still not a major limitation for the phones use, IMO Oct 11 13:22:12 dtx: What's the octokey implementation? Oct 11 13:22:32 lemme see if I can find the link Oct 11 13:23:23 still... multi-touch would be nice, as would a larger screen (3.5" already seems small to my old eyes) Oct 11 13:23:36 http://projects.openmoko.org/projects/finger-keyboard/ Oct 11 13:23:40 download key2key Oct 11 13:23:50 and then run the octakey demo Oct 11 13:23:52 <_diego_> larger lcd -> larger phone ^^ Oct 11 13:23:53 It's python Oct 11 13:24:34 yes, the screen indeed is small Oct 11 13:24:37 +1 from me as well Oct 11 13:24:39 _diego_: iPhone lcd: 3.5", Neo1973 lcd: 2.8", yet iPhone is small in every dimension Oct 11 13:24:56 _diego_: well - less boring surrounding plastic could keep the phone at the same size ... Oct 11 13:24:59 iPhone is almost edge to edge screen Oct 11 13:25:05 ack Oct 11 13:26:12 Anyway, I can wait for the gta-03 for multi-touch 3.5" lcd iPhone killer. We've got tons of code to write first :-) Oct 11 13:26:14 <_diego_> ok, 3.5" is just 20% more of 2.8". Better, but if u have problems with 2.8", i don't think that they go completly away with a 3.5 Oct 11 13:26:34 The fruitbranded phone also does not have a replacable battery.. ::shrugs:: Everything is a tradeoff. Oct 11 13:26:54 well - you can relace it Oct 11 13:27:00 Yes, replacable battery is nice, as is SD slot. Oct 11 13:27:09 and the guitar pick opening case of the neo is also not exactly end-user-friendly Oct 11 13:27:18 It's not guitar pick. Oct 11 13:27:27 rxr: Apple does it for high $$ at the store, and replaces the black cover, since they can't remove it gently. Oct 11 13:27:31 rxr: I don't need a guitar pick to open mine.. ? Oct 11 13:27:52 let your hand relax into its natural shape. now tilt your wrist down. Hold your wrist rigid. Oct 11 13:27:53 A field replacable battery does result in a lager device... Oct 11 13:27:53 I know, but you can still replace it yourself if you know how Oct 11 13:28:10 Now, place your middle finget into the slot, and the back of your hand on the back of the neo Oct 11 13:28:14 well - a little probably Oct 11 13:28:31 And then lower your arm towards the case Oct 11 13:28:48 the top pops off easily and controllably. Oct 11 13:28:48 SpeedEvil: yeah, after opening my neo 40 times the case also open easier than the first time .-) Oct 11 13:28:48 any power management news? Oct 11 13:29:09 bedboi: I'd ask the person, but he's asleep. Oct 11 13:29:15 (kidding) Oct 11 13:29:22 <_diego_> rxr: never used the pickup, and i always find easy to open Oct 11 13:29:23 Basically no. Oct 11 13:29:30 hey speed, chicken for supper? Oct 11 13:29:44 ? Oct 11 13:29:56 3000 chickens loose on the M80 Oct 11 13:30:16 :-) Oct 11 13:30:51 Didn't maemo release it handwriting rec. for free? Oct 11 13:31:01 open source Oct 11 13:31:26 if they did, it's news to me; originally it's proprietary Oct 11 13:31:27 dunno Oct 11 13:31:53 SpeedEvil: it was you that yesterday was telling about 8 hours standby time Oct 11 13:31:57 ? Oct 11 13:32:11 by throttling cpu freq and voltage Oct 11 13:33:48 bedboi: Oh - that was some weeks ago. Oct 11 13:33:54 bedboi: not tried since. Oct 11 13:34:19 DukeOfURL: 60 miles? at the closest point of the M80 to me. Oct 11 13:34:34 shucks Oct 11 13:35:18 were they being transported for bird flu testing ;) Oct 11 13:45:48 I guess they didn't release the handwriting rec: http://maemo.org/news/announcements/view/1189194936.html Oct 11 13:45:59 just the input framework Oct 11 13:49:07 dtx: their handwriting rec is most likely plastered with patents :-( Oct 11 13:52:50 Hi. On Aug 20, Sean Moss-Pultz wrote: "Finally, we are very close to publishing our extensive software roadmap..." Anyone know if this has been done? Oct 11 13:53:33 I only ask, because it's very hard for me to figure out what's actively being developed, and I'd like to find an area where I can help. Oct 11 13:57:40 hmm, openmoko-feed doesn't build for me Oct 11 14:01:07 Henryk: my build is borked on midori Oct 11 14:01:27 yes, mine too Oct 11 14:01:45 mine too... :) Oct 11 14:09:59 hi Oct 11 14:12:06 Hi Oct 11 15:37:35 hello everybody Oct 11 15:38:32 Hey. Oct 11 15:47:55 Marex-notebook: ahoj :) Oct 11 15:49:40 bluesky, hi Oct 11 15:59:02 * guri still struggling to get a booting kernel Oct 11 16:02:01 re: using cu to connect to bootloader. cu tells me "connected", I can see the device is connected (dfu-util -list) but I get no u-boot prompt on host :( ...any ideas? Oct 11 16:02:26 am i going to have to try the dreaded u-boot flash? Oct 11 16:05:30 guri have you eventually touched the uboot_env? Oct 11 16:07:32 roh so far i have managed to get a FS flashed, but something screwy happened with the 1st kernel flash...don't seem to have the original u-boot screen anymore Oct 11 16:08:40 i think part of my problem is wierd USB on my Ubuntu laptop (7.04)....e.g. I see 1 item under dfu-util -list with nothing attached *at all* Oct 11 16:09:04 * guri is thinking of using the Mac instructions :/ Oct 11 16:09:20 uhm.. that sounds like your uboot_env is broken Oct 11 16:09:33 guri: did you use sudo dfu-util --list Oct 11 16:09:42 Writchie, yes Oct 11 16:10:03 did you boot first and then plug in usb? Oct 11 16:10:06 Ubuntu/Debian requires sudo. I think because of Diallers group (I read somewhere ages ago) Oct 11 16:10:32 guri the entry in dfu-util --list can be something like your bluetooth-module Oct 11 16:10:39 Writchie, yes. I can flash it OK. but CU on host wont do more than say "Connected" Oct 11 16:11:07 roh. cool....but. if I switch that off.....I have to switch of wireless....bah (mumble, grumble "ubuntu") Oct 11 16:11:41 guri just ignore it and use dfu-util -d 0x1457:0x5119 Oct 11 16:11:49 roh. i have Oct 11 16:12:00 my main issue is with connecting to u-boot now Oct 11 16:12:17 so that I can do a nand erase etc Oct 11 16:12:34 obviously specifying "kernel" or "rootfs" with that command ;) Oct 11 16:12:35 when your uboot-env is screwed you have indeed no usbtty by default anymore in uboot Oct 11 16:13:01 roh. OK. so that sounds like the problem.....now....any ideas for a solution? (help much appreciated) Oct 11 16:13:40 i have a debug board if that helps (but I'm a bit of a novice (understatement) when it comes to *that* kinda thing Oct 11 16:14:23 guri well.. connect the debugboard, insert battery, connect debugboard to pc and pc to moko and use the serial Oct 11 16:14:40 modprobe ftdi_sio vendor=0x1457 product=0x5118 Oct 11 16:14:58 then /dev/ttyUSB1 is your moko serial console Oct 11 16:15:19 * guri writes this down ;) Oct 11 16:16:13 wait. i have to get all these bits out the box....and take my neo apart ;) Oct 11 16:16:40 is there Wiki for debug board? Oct 11 16:19:46 When is mickey|portugal back from portugal? Oct 11 16:20:38 Elrond: last monday Oct 11 16:21:40 zecke - But his nick is still |portugal? Oct 11 16:28:07 roh? Oct 11 16:28:26 sudo cu -l /dev/ttyUSB1 Oct 11 16:28:27 cu: open (/dev/ttyUSB1): No such file or directory Oct 11 16:28:27 cu: /dev/ttyUSB1: Line in use Oct 11 16:32:24 guri /dev/ttyUSB1 is only there after loading the driver Oct 11 16:32:48 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973_Debug_Board_v2 Oct 11 16:33:58 Oct 11 17:26:06 daptop kernel: [ 2581.372000] usb 3-2: new full speed USB device using uhci_hcd and address 2 Oct 11 16:33:58 Oct 11 17:26:06 daptop kernel: [ 2581.524000] usb 3-2: configuration #1 chosen from 1 choice Oct 11 16:33:58 Oct 11 17:26:06 daptop kernel: [ 2581.528000] hub 3-2:1.0: USB hub found Oct 11 16:33:58 Oct 11 17:26:06 daptop kernel: [ 2581.532000] hub 3-2:1.0: 4 ports detected Oct 11 16:33:58 Oct 11 17:26:06 daptop kernel: [ 2581.844000] usb 3-2.1: new full speed USB device using uhci_hcd and address 3 Oct 11 16:34:03 Oct 11 17:26:07 daptop kernel: [ 2582.012000] usb 3-2.1: configuration #1 chosen from 1 choice Oct 11 16:34:05 Oct 11 17:26:26 daptop kernel: [ 2601.448000] usb 1-1: new full speed USB device using uhci_hcd and address 4 Oct 11 16:34:08 Oct 11 17:26:27 daptop kernel: [ 2601.644000] usb 1-1: configuration #1 chosen from 2 choices Oct 11 16:34:10 Oct 11 17:26:27 daptop kernel: [ 2601.656000] cdc_acm 1-1:1.0: ttyACM1: USB ACM device Oct 11 16:34:12 Oct 11 17:27:07 daptop kernel: [ 2642.092000] usbcore: registered new interface driver usbserial Oct 11 16:34:14 Oct 11 17:27:07 daptop kernel: [ 2642.096000] drivers/usb/serial/usb-serial.c: USB Serial support registered for generic Oct 11 16:34:17 Oct 11 17:27:07 daptop kernel: [ 2642.240000] usbcore: registered new interface driver usbserial_generic Oct 11 16:34:19 Oct 11 17:27:07 daptop kernel: [ 2642.240000] drivers/usb/serial/usb-serial.c: USB Serial Driver core Oct 11 16:34:21 Oct 11 17:27:07 daptop kernel: [ 2642.264000] drivers/usb/serial/usb-serial.c: USB Serial support registered for FTDI USB Serial Device Oct 11 16:34:24 Oct 11 17:27:07 daptop kernel: [ 2642.264000] usbcore: registered new interface driver ftdi_sio Oct 11 16:34:26 Oct 11 17:27:07 daptop kernel: [ 2642.264000] drivers/usb/serial/ftdi_sio.c: v1.4.3:USB FTDI Serial Converters Driver Oct 11 16:34:31 Oct 11 17:31:03 daptop kernel: [ 2878.920000] usb 1-1: USB disconnect, address 4 Oct 11 16:34:33 Oct 11 17:31:06 daptop kernel: [ 2881.688000] usb 3-2: USB disconnect, address 2 Oct 11 16:34:35 Oct 11 17:31:06 daptop kernel: [ 2881.688000] usb 3-2.1: USB disconnect, address 3 Oct 11 16:34:37 Sorry!!! Oct 11 16:34:39 maybe i should post this in the mailing list? Oct 11 16:34:55 !pastebin Oct 11 16:35:58 BTW though it says "USB Hub Found" in there.....I have no hub, so I assume it's the debug board Oct 11 16:36:17 jap Oct 11 16:36:37 try screen Oct 11 16:36:37 i no longer trust cu Oct 11 16:36:44 did you connect the neo and the debugboard to the same 'double usb port' ? Oct 11 16:36:56 i use screen for all my serial stuff Oct 11 16:37:06 roh, it's a laptop. one USB on back one on side Oct 11 16:37:26 guri ah.. ok. because i need 'both sides' to have 2x 500mA avail Oct 11 16:37:36 one double right, one single left Oct 11 16:38:10 ok. i have a double and a single on the back Oct 11 16:41:23 what's a good image to start out with? the names of the images in the different repositories are cryptic to a newbie :) Oct 11 16:41:59 Anyone happen to know of a cachiness kernel control? Like swappiness? Oct 11 16:43:18 /proc/sys/vm/vfs_cache_presure? Oct 11 16:43:59 That sets how hard the cache 'pushes' on the rest of the system? Oct 11 16:44:27 Thanks. Oct 11 16:45:33 august snapshot Oct 11 16:45:33 although that's a bit old Oct 11 16:45:33 there'll be a new one soon Oct 11 16:53:18 http://people.openmoko.org/roh/ has some 'snapshot' build from today Oct 11 16:53:44 http://people.openmoko.org/roh/OpenMoko-openmoko-devel-image-glibc-ipk-P1-September-Snapshot-20071011-fic-gta01.rootfs.jffs2 and http://people.openmoko.org/roh/uImage-2.6.22.5-moko11+svnr2937-r3-fic-gta01.bin Oct 11 16:54:04 .oO(september??) Oct 11 16:54:13 It's not september. Oct 11 16:54:14 hehe Oct 11 16:54:14 heh Oct 11 16:54:16 look at the date. Oct 11 16:54:22 20071011 Oct 11 16:54:31 Thats a build from *today*. Oct 11 16:54:40 i know.. i compiled it.. i just realize there is a string that needs updating ;) Oct 11 16:54:40 yeag but where the hack septembercomes in Oct 11 16:54:41 Hi roh! Oct 11 16:54:41 Ignore the stupid september part of the filenae. Oct 11 16:55:08 roh. about this 2x 500mA? could you explain a bit more.... Oct 11 16:55:39 although i should go eat soon Oct 11 16:56:33 guri: the debugboard v2 needs some bit of power in the moment of connection till the caps are full, and the neo needs a 500mA port to charge properly Oct 11 16:57:54 hey Elrond Oct 11 16:58:29 okey-coke.....aha! Oct 11 16:58:35 sorry about that Oct 11 16:58:40 being a f00l Oct 11 16:59:02 * guri looks for another USB cable Oct 11 17:19:41 anyone any good at gtk programming? Oct 11 17:24:21 thanks for the help earlier roh. i definitely need it. i'll have another stab at getting everything sorted at the weekend....work and family commitments intrude :) Oct 11 17:35:47 Will next version of FIC Neo support EDGE? Oct 11 17:38:04 Xenius, not GTA02 Oct 11 17:39:04 * Xenius wants free software phone with EDGE support Oct 11 17:41:29 if you can find a pin drop-in replacement for the current baseband chipset with edge-support, gta02 could perhaps feature the hardware :) Oct 11 17:41:55 krLun sure not Oct 11 17:42:25 sure not? Oct 11 17:42:26 the gsm is integrated into the pcb design, its not a module, so any change at the rf-part is totally out of question Oct 11 17:42:44 oh Oct 11 17:43:31 Without EDGE support - Sharp saurus exists Oct 11 17:44:24 GPRS is slow... Oct 11 17:44:24 edge is only a little bit interresting. the real thing is 3.5G Oct 11 17:45:28 Currently I have Nokia N73 Oct 11 17:45:54 I hate Symbian 9.1... Oct 11 17:48:31 May be anyone know, how to turn off "Platform Security"& Oct 11 17:48:36 ? Oct 11 17:53:27 hi all! Oct 11 17:53:55 I've problem with compiling openmoko from scratch on opensuse 10.3 Oct 11 17:54:12 this is my output info: http://www.pastebin.ca/733265 Oct 11 17:54:19 could anybody help? Oct 11 17:55:50 generally it is problem with directfb-1.1.0, makefile can't find neither rfb/rfb.h nor rfb/keysym.h Oct 11 17:56:50 and tells me, that /usr/lib/libvncserver.so: could not read symbols: File in wrong format Oct 11 17:57:33 however, I don't know, why this is occuring :/ Oct 11 17:58:11 Did anybody have the same issuses or maybe know how to fix it? Oct 11 17:58:18 -rpath /usr/lib/directfb-1.1-0/inputdrivers -L/usr/lib is probably wrong Oct 11 17:58:35 can you please give use the configure log Oct 11 17:59:03 which one is that? Oct 11 17:59:10 e.g. /home/openmoko/om/build/tmp/work/armv4t-angstrom-linux-gnueabi/directfb-1.1.0-r0/temp/log.do_compile.* Oct 11 17:59:15 Henryk the question rather is: why does anything pull dfb in, and especially why 1.1.0 ,, 1.0.0 should be default Oct 11 17:59:19 ehh, /home/openmoko/om/build/tmp/work/armv4t-angstrom-linux-gnueabi/directfb-1.1.0-r0/temp/log.do_configure.* Oct 11 17:59:38 roh: yes, that's another one :) Oct 11 18:00:11 why dfb is missing librfb as dep and why its forcefully enabled at all is a different one ;) Oct 11 18:01:42 well, do_configure log is rather long, which line would be interesting? or maybe I should post it on pastebin? Oct 11 18:02:25 btw. I've updated openmoko env today Oct 11 18:03:49 use pastebin Oct 11 18:04:35 Henryk, ok Oct 11 18:06:00 roh: it also compiled directfb-1.1.0-r0 for me Oct 11 18:07:59 hi Oct 11 18:08:22 i wanted to try to boot openmoko on qemu Oct 11 18:08:25 Henryk, do_configure log is under: http://www.pastebin.ca/733284 Oct 11 18:08:29 i followed the instructions of the wiki Oct 11 18:08:38 but there is always an error: Oct 11 18:08:47 GTA01Bv4 # setenv bootcmd 'openmoko/flash.sh: line 88: 8852 Beendet $qemu -mtdblock "$script_dir/$flash_base" -kernel "$script_dir/$1" -serial stdio -nographic -usb -monitor null 0<&0 Oct 11 18:09:01 Beendet means exit or something Oct 11 18:10:19 Orzech: "checking for libvncserver-config... /usr/bin/libvncserver-config" is probably the problem Oct 11 18:10:44 Henryk, aaah, I see :) Oct 11 18:11:14 i only maked an svn up in the version i downloaded 1 month ago Oct 11 18:11:19 Henryk, what should I do? Oct 11 18:11:36 but i did the other things like in the wiki Oct 11 18:13:09 Oct 11 18:13:15 btw, do_compile log is now under: http://www.pastebin.ca/733285 Oct 11 18:13:36 Orzech_: apply http://people.openmoko.org/henryk/directfb-disable-vnc.patch Oct 11 18:13:49 then make clean-package-directfb then try again Oct 11 18:14:04 Henryk, ok, doing it now Oct 11 18:14:26 thomasgruebler: i think this "error" is normal, I don't fully recall the flashing process though Oct 11 18:14:56 so it's normal that it doesn't work actual? Oct 11 18:23:43 Henryk, thank You very much, that fixed my problem (ofcourse vnc support is lost, but at least I'm closer to build rest of distro ;) ) Oct 11 18:24:24 besides, at this stage of openmoko knowledge (none) I don't need that at all ;) Oct 11 18:24:56 Should I post solution on pastebin? Oct 11 18:25:09 Orzech_: vnc support is probably disabled for everyone else too (such as for me), because it defaults to auto Oct 11 18:25:52 Henryk, no problem, really :) Oct 11 18:26:27 Henryk: so i cannot boot in qemu now? Oct 11 18:27:00 Orzech: I'll try talk to the OpenEmbedded directfb maintainer so that he can fix it either way Oct 11 18:27:45 Henryk, great, even just for having polished sources :) Oct 11 18:27:53 thomasgruebler: did you try make run-qemu? Oct 11 18:28:53 Henryk, so shall I post solution on pastebin, or it is just place to fast pasting of exchanging some info? Oct 11 18:29:24 I mean "or it is just place to fast exchange some info?" Oct 11 18:30:02 Henryk: no. i'll try Oct 11 18:30:28 "no rule to make run-qemu, exit" Oct 11 18:31:13 Orzech_: probably no need to do that, I already gave the maintainer the log.do_configure output and the problem is clear from that Oct 11 18:32:05 Henryk, so thank You very much once again, I'm getting back to work Oct 11 18:32:10 Peace. Oct 11 18:32:19 thomasgruebler: just so that we're talking about the same thing: which instructions did you follow? Oct 11 18:32:32 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Qemu Oct 11 18:33:14 thomasgruebler: manual setup or MokoMakefile? Oct 11 18:33:23 normal Oct 11 18:33:27 without the makefile Oct 11 18:33:34 because it already worked once Oct 11 18:33:40 but it was some time ago Oct 11 18:34:02 hmm, ok, then I have no idea, never tried that Oct 11 18:34:04 and on my very slow laptop it runs so slow that i cannot try it all the time :D Oct 11 18:50:23 anybody working on qemu emulator ? Oct 11 18:50:59 working on as in developing qemu, or using the emulator to develop openmoko software? Oct 11 18:51:31 developing qemu. Oct 11 18:52:21 actually, i wanted to know, when i use my bluetooth dongle, qemu hangs. is this expected ? Oct 11 19:01:55 Mek: OpenTTD "quite playable"? I take it you didn't open the map window which causes tons of alignment traps in the kernel ;x Oct 11 19:02:42 abraxa__: uhm... that is only in the 0.4 version that is in openembedded :) Oct 11 19:02:53 abraxa__: 0.5 works just fine (as thus the latest svn version) Oct 11 19:03:21 Mek: do u have any idea on the bluetooth thing ? Oct 11 19:03:29 develneubee: no, I don't Oct 11 19:05:57 Mek: Ahh okay, I gotta try that then :) Oct 11 19:06:31 I added some patches to hide the mouse cursor, and make it possible to scroll without a right mouse button, but than it is quite playable :) Oct 11 19:22:49 I´m in doubt about buying Neo1973 or waiting until GTA02, any ideas? Oct 11 19:23:21 wait Oct 11 19:24:07 yeah, if in doubt, wait Oct 11 19:24:36 thanks openmoko´s Oct 11 19:28:23 Why is better waiting? for the new features or is it very unstable now? Oct 11 19:29:33 for the new features, who wouldn't want a graphics accelerator in their phone ;) Oct 11 19:34:02 If that´s the only reason, I´d be better to buy one now so to start developing. Oct 11 19:34:04 heh, yeah, ignore the unimportant stuff, like wifi, twice the horsepower, ... ;) Oct 11 19:34:39 who wouldnt want wifi Oct 11 19:37:32 c/c++ gtk and linux is all I need to start developing?... I need to protoype a GPS app... Oct 11 19:39:19 c+gtk is enough Oct 11 19:39:44 and at moment a bit knowledge in bitbake and openembedded Oct 11 19:40:16 more like a few bits Oct 11 19:40:24 maybe even a few bytes Oct 11 19:40:52 to start developping you don't need any bitbake/openembedded knowledge... Oct 11 19:41:09 you could just run it as a normal native gtk+ program using the correct theme... Oct 11 19:41:49 olpc doesn't have a gps does it? Oct 11 19:41:54 How about Windows programmers ? Oct 11 19:41:59 heh, sorry, wrong channel Oct 11 19:42:11 edu I was thinking of porting maemo mapper Oct 11 19:43:44 edu_: ? Oct 11 19:44:06 yes Oct 11 19:44:17 I love maemo mapper Oct 11 19:44:36 alas the nokia 770/800 is linux, but not a cell phone Oct 11 19:46:01 do you think openmoko can compete with .net mobile? I´m thinking about rapid dev tools... Oct 11 19:49:24 well, it's likely possible to adapt many of the current open source development tools to work with openmoko without much effort. Oct 11 19:49:56 it's not that there are no tools. It's that no-one is putting ad money to making sure people know about them. Oct 11 19:55:09 try eclipse Oct 11 19:55:14 and glade Oct 11 20:00:15 maemo mapper is wonderful Oct 11 20:00:23 how hard a port is it? Oct 11 20:01:42 Google Plans Free, Open Source Mobile Phone Operating System Oct 11 20:01:49 http://news.softpedia.com/news/Google-Plans-Free-Open-Source-Mobile-Phone-Operating-System-67962.shtml Oct 11 20:01:52 old news, no? Oct 11 20:01:57 yes? Oct 11 20:02:16 and they bought a mobile presence company from finland Oct 11 20:02:30 yeah, jaiku Oct 11 20:02:40 I know a couple of their devs personally Oct 11 20:03:21 sadly most of the jaiku code is workarounds for symbian crap Oct 11 20:03:51 the code it was forked from is open source, if anyone is interested Oct 11 20:04:12 it's pretty readable as symbian code goes, but it's still symbian code Oct 11 20:04:38 in one of the articles it said a large part of what they did was IM Oct 11 20:04:40 is that true? Oct 11 20:05:00 also i heard it was about location based stuff Oct 11 20:05:34 <|R> Is there a standard being developed for geotagging? Oct 11 20:06:16 google may be interested in openmoko? Oct 11 20:06:28 <|R> let's hope so... Oct 11 20:06:38 I doubt it edu_. Oct 11 20:06:48 enjahova: jaiku was about contextual presence updates Oct 11 20:06:56 It would actually make sense for google to drop several million on coders to make it. Oct 11 20:07:03 enjahova: it was something like a contextualized mobile blog Oct 11 20:07:07 Kliment, so doing stuff based on what you are close to? Oct 11 20:07:40 yeah, i agree speedevil, its in googles interest to have more devices on the internet, and the more open the better Oct 11 20:07:40 enjahova: no, attaching what you are close to, who is near you, what you are doing etc to media you publish Oct 11 20:07:55 oh i see Oct 11 20:08:15 they had to jump through many hoops to get things like address book integration and cell id working Oct 11 20:08:18 the nytimes article made it sound like google was going to make a competitor to openmoko Oct 11 20:08:35 I was working on the predecessor project for a short while Oct 11 20:08:35 kliment, did it only work for some subset of phones? i guess symbian? Oct 11 20:08:41 S60 only Oct 11 20:08:53 and not all of s60 at that Oct 11 20:09:00 wow they got a lot of media hype for such a narrow base Oct 11 20:09:06 then again i don't know how many s60s there are Oct 11 20:09:16 s60 is huge Oct 11 20:09:36 oh, im just ignorant of mobile technology ^_^ just getting into it from hearing about openmoko Oct 11 20:10:32 so what about the future for neo 1973 and openmoko? Oct 11 20:10:39 this qtopia thing is starting to look very nice Oct 11 20:10:41 Who knows. Oct 11 20:10:56 so s60 is to windows what openmoko is to linux? Oct 11 20:11:10 s60 is not windows Oct 11 20:11:19 though the API naming is similarly ugly Oct 11 20:11:36 no i meant in concept, a closed source "os" for mobile devices Oct 11 20:11:45 yes Oct 11 20:11:46 and qtopia, openmoko are OSS counterparts Oct 11 20:11:48 Symbian is "open". Oct 11 20:11:54 symbian is not open Oct 11 20:12:02 That's why the quotes. Oct 11 20:12:07 symbian is programmable if you have a lot of money Oct 11 20:12:14 but it is in no way open Oct 11 20:12:18 It is open in the same sense as Windows is. Anyone can develop applications for it. Oct 11 20:12:26 that is not true Oct 11 20:12:43 you need a permission from symbian to distribute an app Oct 11 20:12:53 You do? Oct 11 20:12:56 this is a new development, since last year Oct 11 20:12:59 symbian signed Oct 11 20:13:07 I thought you could self-sign. Oct 11 20:13:16 you can self-sign Oct 11 20:13:19 for one device Oct 11 20:13:20 ugh Oct 11 20:13:24 Right. Oct 11 20:13:46 so if you want to give away your program or sell it you need to pay them to sign... Oct 11 20:14:01 its pretty easy to see how openmoko and qtopia are the way of the future Oct 11 20:14:10 is there any side-by-side comparison between the two? Oct 11 20:14:13 Oh really. Oct 11 20:14:18 No, it's not. Oct 11 20:14:23 It's a possible future. Oct 11 20:14:39 Though OM could be interesting for other devices too. Oct 11 20:14:40 forgive me for being optimistic Oct 11 20:14:49 hehe Oct 11 20:15:16 There have been way too many 'ways of the future' that diddn't. Oct 11 20:16:15 so, are there fundamental differences between OM and qtopia? Oct 11 20:16:28 gtk vs qt? :) Oct 11 20:16:37 i don't think i have a clear grasp on the situation Oct 11 20:16:38 ah Oct 11 20:16:39 you have to pay qtopia if you include any proprietary software Oct 11 20:16:39 OM stack runs on X (using gtk), qtopia does its own thing Oct 11 20:17:11 qtopia also mostly works as a phone, OM doesn't at the moment Oct 11 20:17:13 making the OM stack more of a commodity thing and the Qtopia a much too much all-or-nothing deal Oct 11 20:17:14 OM uses lgpl so you can run either GPL or proprietary above it. Oct 11 20:17:19 oh, so right away OM seems like a better choice since it uses more standards Oct 11 20:17:41 well, that's my opinion at least Oct 11 20:17:48 i guess OM was started with broader vision, it would seem Oct 11 20:17:54 I like OM using X Oct 11 20:17:54 OM is alplha Oct 11 20:18:06 s/alplha/alpha/ Oct 11 20:18:06 Writchie meant: OM is alpha Oct 11 20:18:13 Is the underlying userspace on Qtopia a OE enviroment too? Oct 11 20:18:30 the usable-as-a-phone thing is why I've qtopia currently installed on my Neo, but I do intend to return OM when it's up to it Oct 11 20:18:31 ah, so side-by-side isn't really fair, OM is much younger than qtopia, but if it matures it should be more powerful Oct 11 20:18:41 Yeah. Fundamental difference -- qtopia is kind of usable. OM, well :) Oct 11 20:18:44 enjahova, I would say that's a fair assessment. Oct 11 20:18:54 cool Oct 11 20:18:56 some might not :] Oct 11 20:18:57 and more open IMHO Oct 11 20:19:02 Writchie, yeah Oct 11 20:19:15 What Qtopia images do people have actually working? Oct 11 20:19:21 an lgpl foundation is important for many people Oct 11 20:19:21 well im interested in being an applications developer for OM, so i think i'll wait for the gta02 Oct 11 20:20:23 you can, of course, do a lot of development without the device, though for the final touches you should have it to get the proper feel Oct 11 20:22:04 I'll try the gps with qtopia in a bit (thanks mjr) Oct 11 20:22:10 it works in OM Oct 11 20:22:47 and if this works out me and a couple students will be using the neo for a research project in NL Oct 11 20:36:06 all dev for openmoko can be done without the device, using qemu for example? Oct 11 20:37:56 mostly, yes. except for actual GUI testing, since you most likely don't have an actual screen with 285 dpi lying around Oct 11 20:38:42 or if you do I want to know where you got it Oct 11 20:40:27 Everyone that has seen my GTA01 has commented positvely on the screen. Oct 11 20:41:05 you can mostly compile for your desktop linux and develop there, as long as you know what libs you're using Oct 11 20:52:55 Does anyone know where mkfs.jffs2 is on opensuse? Oct 11 20:52:59 * pmax cannot find it anywhere Oct 11 20:54:56 hey folks, having a slight problem with my neo, just received it today, flashed to the latest 2007.2 from my os x with OpenMoko Flasher, but it freezes during boot at udo: enabling fast charge, cant ssh to it or anything Oct 11 20:55:17 How long have you had it on charge? Oct 11 20:55:24 good 5 hours now Oct 11 20:55:45 It can unfortunately be unstable at low states of charge. Oct 11 20:55:49 it booted to a 2007.1, but refuses to for a 2007.2 Oct 11 20:55:52 hmm ok Oct 11 20:56:00 That may be it - or it may not. Oct 11 20:56:21 pmax: is doesn't matter where it is, you should find a copy in build/tmp/staging/i686-linux/bin/ Oct 11 20:58:51 You could try A) take battery out, wait 5 min, put battery back in, wait another 5 hours. Oct 11 20:58:51 Or B) reflash with the first image to see if it's that Oct 11 20:58:52 the other thing was in the 2007.1 it refused to switch on gsm, even after I followed the wiki on manually switching it on Oct 11 20:59:48 ScaredyCat: where is build/ ? :) Oct 11 21:00:09 it works (apart from gsm) if I flash back to 2007.1, but 2007.2 fails for all builds, I will try the battery trick and see if that helps it Oct 11 21:00:27 Odd. Oct 11 21:00:45 How did manyually switching on GSM fail? Oct 11 21:01:34 it got as far as connected when running cu on the modem, but regardless of when I run the command to enable it it always failed Oct 11 21:02:21 what command were you running? Oct 11 21:02:25 at+cfun=1 Oct 11 21:02:28 (turn modem on) Oct 11 21:02:31 ? Oct 11 21:05:51 the wiki says to run stty before cu, but there is a note saying you should run this after cu on a seperate session, but it doesn't make any difference, it still hangs on "Connected" Oct 11 21:06:31 gecko^|, reboot and try again. gsmd seems to sometimes get the modem into a weird state where it does not respond.. Oct 11 21:06:40 I did : ( Oct 11 21:06:47 tried twice, still no luck Oct 11 21:07:01 Either by restarting or screwing with the power_on file I've always gotten it to work.. Oct 11 21:07:10 hmm yeah Oct 11 21:07:26 also test by typing AT ... you won't get an echo back on your own keystrokes. Oct 11 21:08:18 ok, done the battery trick, it now hangs on freeing init memory, but 2 lines above it gives a fork fails to create the thread for the jffs garbage collector Oct 11 21:08:59 gecko^|: aha, what u-boot are you running and did you clear the rootfs flash before reflashing 2007.2? Oct 11 21:09:41 1.2.0-moko9_r8 Oct 11 21:09:54 hmm, no I didnt, that may have been my downfalling here Oct 11 21:10:34 if you haven't updated your uboot, you need to do that Oct 11 21:10:42 and you don't want to update uboot without a debug board Oct 11 21:11:01 if you have a debug board, you can update your uboot to the aug-11 version Oct 11 21:11:28 I don't have a debug board :/ Oct 11 21:12:06 okay, then clear the rootfs flash area before flashing a new rootfs, as described in the flashing openmoko wikipage Oct 11 21:12:23 ok Oct 11 21:12:38 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Nand_erase Oct 11 21:12:46 cheers Oct 11 21:12:52 you know, the big red warning at the top of the flashing moko page :) Oct 11 21:12:56 aug-11 uboot is good? Oct 11 21:12:58 " WARNING: If you upload a rootfs image that is smaller than the previous one it won't work - you need to attach to bootloader, erase NAND and then upload your rootfs firs" Oct 11 21:13:19 yes, but the 2007.1 is smaller than 2007.2 :p Oct 11 21:13:19 mjr: that worked for me, the latest uboot has its own share of problems Oct 11 21:13:29 still, i'd try that first Oct 11 21:13:36 yeah, I'll give it a go now Oct 11 21:13:39 dunno Oct 11 21:13:43 i'm also new to this :) Oct 11 21:13:51 now, sleepz Oct 11 21:13:53 good luck Oct 11 21:13:54 ! Oct 11 21:14:03 heh, thanks Oct 11 21:14:17 * mjr has been wondering about what would be the recommended non-broken uboot to flash to eg. get rid of that requirement of nand erase stuff Oct 11 21:14:56 oh sodding OS X, /dev/ttyACM0 doesn't exist! Oct 11 21:22:22 just wondering... this mysterious area that holds uboot_env... Oct 11 21:22:22 i hear it cannot be recreated, etc? Oct 11 21:32:28 openmoko-browser2: symbol lookup error: openmoko-browser2: undefined symbol: webkit_gtk_frame_get_title Oct 11 21:32:34 anyone run into this? Oct 11 21:33:06 torpor: bitbake -crebuild icu qmake2-native Oct 11 21:33:34 oh damn really? Oct 11 21:33:46 can't i just fix it on my neo by updating against a stable feed? Oct 11 21:33:57 i wanna use my neo to read the gtkfaq.html in bed .. ;) Oct 11 21:34:20 torpor: well, how did you end up there? Oct 11 21:34:38 torpor: you have a too new webkit or a too old browser Oct 11 21:34:40 beats the hell out of me, i wondered about that too, because midori was working last week .. openmoko-browser2 too .. Oct 11 21:35:03 isn't there a sort of 'best possible working feed' around right now, though? Oct 11 21:35:38 i really had hoped that this would have been set up by now, so i'm wondering if it has, and if it hasn't, how can i help with that? it seems to me the openmoko people need to get a bit more official.. Oct 11 21:35:49 wasn't there supposed to have been someone hired for the job? Oct 11 21:37:30 torpor, I think most of the concern is still on basic functionality. Oct 11 21:37:58 Why bother with a 'best image' when there is none that really works as a phone? :) Oct 11 21:38:20 i would consider having a working 'latest feed that is known to work' with a web browser, minimum, to be basic functionality. unless you mean 'phone functionality', in which case i shall be more patient, since i don't think of the neo as even a phone at this point .. Oct 11 21:38:44 all i wanna do is use it as a web browser at home, with bluetooth and/or usb .. Oct 11 21:39:01 I've used it mobile over GPRS using firefox. Oct 11 21:39:04 Worked wrll. Oct 11 21:39:04 run a remote firefox from your desktop :) Oct 11 21:39:11 torpor: Hm ... I never occured to me that people would want to use it for that. :) Hows it work as a browser? Oct 11 21:39:19 torpor: so how did you end up with this installation? dowgrade your webkit libraries Oct 11 21:39:21 (though I was using my laptop to run FF and use the phone for internet connectivity) Oct 11 21:39:30 Just displaying on the phone Oct 11 21:39:41 how well does FF display on the phone?!@# Oct 11 21:39:48 yeah, I've experimented with FF over X at home Oct 11 21:39:51 it's usable Oct 11 21:39:56 * gmaxwell turns his on Oct 11 21:40:00 torpor: The new person hired has spent most of the time this week at OEDEM (OE developers meeting). I'm sure things will get sorted out soon... Oct 11 21:40:18 some lag when running over BT, but still usable Oct 11 21:40:25 zecke: i have no clue, but okay i'll just put my latest image on there and hope for the best. Oct 11 21:40:36 i guess it was part of the mediaplayer hackingaround i was doing last week. Oct 11 21:40:38 Are there instructions on the wiki on bringing up a BT network link? Oct 11 21:40:42 yes Oct 11 21:41:10 RP: okay thanks for filling me in with the details i'll try to be more patient in the meantime.. Oct 11 21:41:26 [[manually using bluetooth]] or something Oct 11 21:50:13 this is cool.. I wish you could make firefox automatically scale everything (including images) Oct 11 21:51:31 FF - I'd recomend 'mousegestures' and 'menux' as extensions. Oct 11 21:59:54 is there any chance we might get the neo booting up with a DHCP server in the future, to do away with all usb-eth config on the PC side in the future? Oct 11 21:59:58 anyone think? Oct 11 22:01:29 Not unreasonable. Oct 11 22:01:41 As long as it also supports static IP Oct 11 22:01:42 torpor: seems odd to make it a server.. but I guess that makes sense. Oct 11 22:01:43 if the neo would expect a DHCP server on the PC side, wouldn't that make it more complex to configure in most cases? Oct 11 22:01:51 no Oct 11 22:01:58 speedevil just have it serve out 200 to the 'client' Oct 11 22:02:00 the idea is that the neo provides its own dhcp server for its own subnet Oct 11 22:02:04 ah.. okay... Oct 11 22:02:08 making it much easier to use it on any PC .. Oct 11 22:02:16 gmaxwell: I personally don't use dhcp is all I mean. Oct 11 22:02:22 SpeedEvil, so it itself would stay statically addressed.. Oct 11 22:02:50 torpor, it's a good idea. Oct 11 22:03:32 coz the thing is i'm getting very tired on macosx of having to reconfigure the eth address for the neo over and over and over again .. and if i could just set it to do a dhcp request on the usb-eth interface, have the neo serve up an address, it'd be a lot more plug and play Oct 11 22:03:53 but then, please, use a less known RFC-1918 network. Something in the 172.16-range. All these private 192.168.0-networks are a serious nuisance Oct 11 22:03:57 right now, for example, i gotta reboot my system just so i can get usb-networking .. Oct 11 22:04:01 I drafted how, IMO, the Neo should serve DHCP in the wiki; http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Talk:USB_Networking Oct 11 22:04:10 Henryk: thats my problem too - too many 192.* addresses .. Oct 11 22:04:18 mjr: i'll read that. Oct 11 22:05:06 169.254 autoconfiguration space? Oct 11 22:05:08 that's not official or anything, I'm just a schmoe Oct 11 22:05:28 but indeed I agree that a dhcp server should be on the neo Oct 11 22:08:11 (go ahead and comment there if you will) Oct 11 22:08:15 sleep now for me Oct 11 22:08:20 ckuethe has a fine point there: the neo already does apipa through avahi Oct 11 22:08:34 so, if your pc is set up correctly, then it would just work Oct 11 22:08:38 would it be possible to connect an external keyboard to a neo through USB port? Oct 11 22:08:48 krLun, yes Oct 11 22:08:56 Henryk, not good enough for getting routing and dns Oct 11 22:09:00 cool Oct 11 22:09:32 mjr: i was just suggesting putting a dhcp server in that range Oct 11 22:09:36 i still don't get how usb host works on the neo .. is it possible without hacking a hole in the case/and-or having the debug board? Oct 11 22:09:43 ckuethe: don't Oct 11 22:09:50 mjr: for dns there's mdns that can announce a local dns server :) Oct 11 22:10:03 well that's a sure way to get me to do it ;) Oct 11 22:11:39 Mek: Can you submit these OpenTTD patches to the OE folks? I would love to see them integrated, along with a recipe for .5 Oct 11 22:13:01 also: a dhcp server on the neo doesn't solve the "get the neo to know the host's dns server and router" problem Oct 11 22:13:03 abraxa_: how do you submit something to the OE folks? :) Oct 11 22:13:23 Mek: Submit a bug in the OE bugzilla and attach the patch(es) Oct 11 22:13:37 Mek: do an mtn add yourfiles and mtn diff, then submit that patch Oct 11 22:13:58 ah, okay... I'll do that... Oct 11 22:14:06 Awesome :) Oct 11 22:14:10 henryk: a dhcp server on it doesn't turn your PC into a router... but unless something does you are hozed anyways. Oct 11 22:14:37 gmaxwell: hmm, true Oct 11 22:14:44 Henryk: it wouldn't be bad for the neo's to use a common DNS server imho .. Oct 11 22:14:51 i.e. hardcode dns.openmoko.org Oct 11 22:15:13 yes it would :) Oct 11 22:15:28 hard code 192.168.0.200 Oct 11 22:15:39 ... you've got to make that system a router anyways. Oct 11 22:15:42 seriously, as long as its changeable by the user (i.e. there is one day a workable sysadmin UI) i don't see the problem. Oct 11 22:15:54 demanding that you make it a dns server/proxy isn't too much more to ask. Oct 11 22:16:06 you mean the PC is server/proxy? Oct 11 22:16:34 torpor: why not? you'll need to make it a router in any case.. Oct 11 22:17:37 i still don't get why there isn't a graphical application installer/package manager by default in the openmoko filesystem . Oct 11 22:18:04 i guess i should just hold off on such complaints until the newguy at openmoko shows up and can start building more 'official' distro's that incorporate everyones changes .. Oct 11 22:19:10 torpor: i think it was recently added or being in the process of being added Oct 11 22:21:15 Henryk: do you know what it was called by any chance? Oct 11 22:21:44 openmoko-appmanager Oct 11 22:26:06 thx Oct 11 22:26:24 hmm, interesting. openmoko-appmanager was in RDEPENDS_task-openmoko-base but is commented out Oct 11 22:26:41 yeah i dunno why that is, eh? Oct 11 22:31:34 argh how do i turn off this damned "CONNECTED TO NETWORK" popup ? Oct 11 22:32:46 never mind, its bed time. Oct 11 22:32:48 night all! Oct 11 22:35:56 Night torpor Oct 11 22:40:44 Hi folks. Oct 11 23:00:12 morning all Oct 11 23:00:25 morning richard Oct 11 23:01:14 Mornin' Oct 12 00:22:06 * xzcvczx sits paitiently waiting for gps driver :S Oct 12 00:34:44 * mwester hands xzcvczx something to read while he waits for the GPS driver -- beginning with 1400 pages of "War and Peace" by Tolstoy Oct 12 00:37:17 mwester: thank you sir may i have another Oct 12 00:38:01 * xzcvczx gets out the knife to see if it will convince gtk+ to behave Oct 12 00:40:34 perhaps the 40cm of papaer forming the OOXML standard? Oct 12 00:42:24 lol Oct 12 00:47:58 is the december release for the gta02 confirmed? I'm planning on buying a pda, to use as gps and pda / mediaplayer, and i'm thinking of waiting for the openmoko gta02, if the release date is confirmed. Oct 12 00:48:44 (i'm not asking, is it out, where can i buy it, i just would like to know if there's a possibillity that i would need to wait longer) Oct 12 00:48:52 It will probably not be end-user ready at that time. Oct 12 00:49:13 damn, that's what i was thinking someone would answer SpeedEvil Oct 12 00:49:21 I have severe doubts that the PM will be ready, forex. Oct 12 00:51:35 thanx for the info Oct 12 00:52:04 This could be wrong - check back nearer the time. Oct 12 00:52:28 It's possible that either more funding or more development may happen Oct 12 00:52:44 SpeedEvil, i will check back right before i find a good candidate pda to buy :-) Oct 12 00:52:47 to make sure Oct 12 00:53:24 a gta02 before christmas would be nice Oct 12 00:53:30 * SpeedEvil nods. Oct 12 00:53:51 how far are thing actually? Oct 12 00:53:59 *things Oct 12 00:54:29 with the software Oct 12 00:55:07 Some things look promising, but most of it crashes a lot or is basically unimplemented. Oct 12 00:55:19 You can in fact download it in qemu, and have a play. Oct 12 00:55:40 maybe i will Oct 12 00:56:33 sometimes a bit hard to find my way around to get information Oct 12 00:56:48 on the website i mean Oct 12 00:56:59 man i should have slept more lol Oct 12 00:57:31 thanx for the info, i'll check back in a week or so :-) Oct 12 00:57:35 bye all **** ENDING LOGGING AT Fri Oct 12 02:59:56 2007