**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Oct 15 02:59:57 2007 Oct 15 03:00:40 Or make a handy way to make sure the runtime you want is installable. Oct 15 03:00:45 if your app has the correct RDEPENDS, then it will pull in the interpreter it needs Oct 15 03:01:58 hmm, that could be considered a heavy imposition by some no? Oct 15 03:02:31 all on the account of me not wanting to deal only with C ^^ Oct 15 03:03:56 enjahova: correct Oct 15 03:04:06 ljp well.. i'm not sure what the standard says about this, but i would assume that both are valid answers, and you whould check for a valid sim beforehand yourself (atleast in a real-world-scenario) Oct 15 03:04:49 enjahova_ currently there is no movement in the coreteam to pick out one lang. Oct 15 03:05:05 let the market decide :-) Oct 15 03:05:21 i see ^^ Oct 15 03:05:40 so i'll gamble on the market choosing python, and in the mean time brush up on C hehe Oct 15 03:05:41 especially because there is no real reason and the right language to solve a problem is problem dependend Oct 15 03:06:15 true Oct 15 03:10:59 if your learning a programming language dont do what everyone else is doing, pick a new language because they time you become a pro it will be in vogue Oct 15 03:14:01 I would be tempted to learn C# or elang the latter due to all the new multicore stuff running around Oct 15 03:14:55 Unless by the time you're good at it you're its only user. Oct 15 03:15:01 C hasn't gone out of style yet. Oct 15 03:15:24 Aria: no but its use is declining as a job Oct 15 03:16:10 also every code monkey knows C so your not making yourself stand out Oct 15 03:16:43 Im not saying dont learn C, just look beyond it Oct 15 03:17:23 * Aria laughs. I know so few coders who know C. Oct 15 03:17:24 yeah, i like python for that... but i never truely learned C Oct 15 03:17:26 Like KNOW C. Oct 15 03:19:38 linux_galore: I hire C/C++ software engineers in preference to those who use Java or other languages where you are so far removed from the actual performance of your code on the bare metal. Oct 15 03:19:50 jap. actually good c coders are very rare... but the same is valid even for java.. there are just different good/useless crap ratios ;) Oct 15 03:20:26 rwhitby: we look for good ASM people Oct 15 03:20:49 when will computers be good ASM programmers >< Oct 15 03:20:55 rwhitby: allot of our stuff runs in 64K Oct 15 03:21:18 rwhitby well.. that depends a lot on the usecase. i even know somebody who was hired because he does lisp.. but hey.. that guy does 5 other langs also and could read every other language spec and start hacking Oct 15 03:21:43 right - there are always exceptions that prove the rule. Oct 15 03:22:46 I heard that really good ASM people in the USA is becoming very rare thus their wages are now pretty high Oct 15 03:23:11 Hence the good advice being 'become a good programmer'. Forget the language war crap. Oct 15 03:23:44 linux_galore good coders are rare all the time, and that ratio is getting worse every day a university spits out another student who's only seen java and cannot even do that right Oct 15 03:24:10 roh: amen Oct 15 03:24:28 ;) Oct 15 03:24:36 roh: Im seeing VB people, were like, yeah but a hello world program in VB wont fit in the embedded asics we use Oct 15 03:25:03 roh: That's why some of the students working with c in their spare time. ;) Oct 15 03:25:17 hehe... people tend to ignore that 99% of the electronics we use do not even have an mmu or so ;) Oct 15 03:25:52 asm D: Oct 15 03:26:02 ubiquitous computing is and will become very big Oct 15 03:26:08 i've done some atmel asm work.. wrote a bootloader for serial xmodem downloading ~_~ Oct 15 03:26:34 jap.. avr asm is actually very cool to teach people the concept of asm in generic i think Oct 15 03:26:44 so whats avr asm? Oct 15 03:26:49 seen some nice projects doing such stuff Oct 15 03:26:52 atmel avr = 8 bit micro Oct 15 03:27:01 but a decent asm set and large # of regs Oct 15 03:27:06 so its nice to work with Oct 15 03:27:17 I like how people keep mentioning that Windows runs on most PC's, I love telling them that Windows runs on less than 2% of cpu's sold Oct 15 03:27:18 so i can wikipedia atmel avr? Oct 15 03:27:36 D:? i guess Oct 15 03:28:23 yeah, Moto still have dev kits for people wanting to learn ASM Oct 15 03:28:35 anrp, i mean where can i read more about it Oct 15 03:28:40 oh Oct 15 03:28:51 well the almighty wiki has an overview Oct 15 03:29:06 under Atmel_AVR Oct 15 03:29:10 like a very ciscy risc which is much more risc by concept than old sh*t like m86k or 8052 Oct 15 03:29:17 you get the software a jig for the cpu's and eeproms etc with cables the whole deal from Moto Oct 15 03:30:05 very cheap too Oct 15 03:30:29 thanks Oct 15 03:30:40 I have noticed there are Linux ASM hardware dev kits running around now too Oct 15 03:32:14 ljp well.. my copy of 07.07 does not specify if CME error 10 or 13 is the right one. just that it either gives you the IMSI youre asking for or an error Oct 15 03:41:24 roh: well it only makes sense that no sim would return error 10 for that Oct 15 03:42:12 ljp not really. if there is no check that there is actually a sim.... Oct 15 03:42:42 thats what error 10 is for Oct 15 03:42:44 think in 'what did the codemonkey at ti actually have as spec.... Oct 15 03:43:10 and the spec does say nothing about checking if there is a sim and give 10 instead of 13 Oct 15 03:44:30 good morning Oct 15 03:44:56 morning Hopscotch Oct 15 03:45:37 * ljp wonders what 'SIM not inserted' means Oct 15 03:46:04 Uh,means you didn't insert a sim? Oct 15 03:56:55 a SIM failure is not the same thing as a missing sim. you have to frist have a sim to have it fail. Oct 15 04:20:20 hmm.. odd. CSTAT seems to give the error 10 Oct 15 04:51:16 Hello everybody Oct 15 04:51:53 : just installed qtopia in Neo 1973 Oct 15 04:51:53 Two major problems Oct 15 04:51:53 1 It is not detecting my sim. just shows no network Oct 15 04:51:53 2 Phone keys locked Oct 15 04:55:01 anybody there? Oct 15 04:58:08 at&t sim? Oct 15 04:58:57 cjb_ie: nope Oct 15 04:59:19 dunno then Oct 15 04:59:43 lot of european devs here who wouldn't be awake yet - try in a couple hours Oct 15 05:00:39 cjb_ie: if qtopia didn't detect network, can't use any other features Oct 15 05:00:53 (and the US is mostly going to sleep around now) Oct 15 05:00:59 gcb77_ are you using qtopia? Oct 15 05:01:09 it's 7 am in europe now, so i bet there's quite some percentage of developers here who just went to bed. like me. Oct 15 05:01:58 heh Oct 15 05:02:19 raddy which network is the sim from? Oct 15 05:02:35 i only know one qtopia user here and that would be alphaone Oct 15 05:02:51 two Oct 15 05:05:15 anyway, maybe dozing off for a few hours now. mtn db regenerate_caches is taking ages (10.000 of 20.600 done, after 130 CPU minutes, on a 3 GHz P4) Oct 15 05:06:51 Henryk: When you consider how much data is involved, and the amount of data that can be processed in that amount of time on a 3GHz P4, it really is quite difficult to imagine what monotone might possibly be doing! Oct 15 05:07:09 mwester: easy: RSA Oct 15 05:08:15 What? On every single item of data (the source itself?) Oct 15 05:09:23 * mwester wonders why such security might be required on a simple thing such as a distributed version control tool, surely a faster algorithm would suffice. Oct 15 05:09:32 I just got a good read out of http://monotone.ca/monotone.html and it turns out that montone uses the term "certificate" quite freely. basically for them a certificate is any RSA-signed revisionidentifier-key-value triplet. and they use them for things like dates, branches, changelogs, etc. one certificate per key-value item. Oct 15 05:10:16 I am imagining "monotone-lite" and wondering how much faster it might sync... Oct 15 05:11:14 in theory that's quite neat, enabling cool disconnected operation and free flow of information because you can basically promiscuitively sync your local database with other databases because just because something is in your database doesn't necessarily mean that you believe it (it would still need a certificate by a key that you trust). Now all we need are faster processors. Oct 15 05:11:51 Henryk the question is: which rsa implementation is in use there, what exactly is the usecase and is it optimized yet. Oct 15 05:12:22 Is there outboard hardware that might do the RSA faster? Oct 15 05:12:37 A USB dongle, perhaps... Oct 15 05:12:49 yes. we already joked about a "monotone accelerator" pcmcia card :) Oct 15 05:13:47 That would really help those who use older hardware, esp. laptops for development... Oct 15 05:14:08 my laptop would be faster than the machine that does it now. (just not enough disk space) Oct 15 05:14:47 mwester: using crypto itself isnt the issue. Oct 15 05:15:00 roh: yes, i was thinking about it: the way i see it at least certificate verification should be parallelizeable without any problems to basically any number of processors Oct 15 05:15:17 normal cpus nowadays do more mbytes/sec crypto than any accelerator 5 years ago Oct 15 05:15:47 Henryk than only halves the time to wait for most of us... there must be more to it Oct 15 05:16:03 So what's the real issue then -- is the problem that too much stuff is individually signed, or something other? Oct 15 05:16:50 mwester: yes, I'm thinking that the most pressing problem is that there are too many individual signatures involved, at least for the read-only case Oct 15 05:17:14 but that problem should be solved soon with OE: They're setting up a readonly git mirror Oct 15 05:18:02 I *do* need to learn git, that much is true. But since I need commit access to OE, I'll still need to keep monotone up-to-date. Oct 15 05:18:32 roh : Airtel India Oct 15 05:18:55 raddy do you know if that sim is a 3g cap. sim? Oct 15 05:19:07 roh: nope Oct 15 05:19:58 i was also thinking about how maybe one could delegate the signature verification task to a trustworthy person/system which would then issue signatures that a whole bunch of other signatures were valid. but that would severely affect the ability for disconnected/parallel operation that is so cool about monotone Oct 15 05:20:57 maybe do some profiling first to determine what really takes so long in monotone instead of speculating Oct 15 05:21:13 roh: any workarounds Oct 15 05:21:42 That's a good idea, though -- for those who are read-only users of monotone, that would permit a local trusted source to provide updates. The integrity of the data could be enforced by simply not accepting changes by a source that doesn't use the full RSA signing. Oct 15 05:22:12 roh : the qtopia UI is very cool, but without having network detection i am not explore mich Oct 15 05:22:25 roh : i mean gsm network Oct 15 05:22:41 Of course, one could FTP the trusted copy of the database just as well. And a 100MB download is faster than regenerating the DB after a monotone upgrade for most users, at least those with broadband. Oct 15 05:29:41 (hmm, i just ran openssl speed on my machine: approx 5000 public rsa 1024 operations per second, and about 10.000 sha1 on 8192 byte blocks per second. the other machine is not slower than half this machine, so even if it was verifying all 60.000 certificates that can't be just it) Oct 15 05:37:36 Henryk hehe Oct 15 05:40:28 *sigh* .. is there any reason for qtopia to lock out the user? Oct 15 05:41:40 no, its a bug Oct 15 05:41:46 :) Oct 15 05:42:21 meh :/ just can't get past curl-natvie when using mokomakefile Oct 15 05:43:05 or, rather, bugS Oct 15 05:47:41 Henryk: What? Who's using qtopia? Oct 15 05:47:46 * alphaone hides Oct 15 05:49:02 openmoko: 03laforge * r3163 10/trunk/src/target/u-boot/patches/ (6 files): Oct 15 05:49:02 openmoko: re-sync with mainline u-boot start.S changes Oct 15 05:49:02 openmoko: * correctly boot from NAND (conflict intoruced by AT91RM9200 changes) Oct 15 05:49:02 openmoko: * don't call the LED code in lib_arm/board.o since it is not part of Oct 15 05:49:02 openmoko: the steppingstone Oct 15 05:49:24 if i want to upload source code, .bb, and .ipk package in CVS, I have to make them as separate modules? Oct 15 05:53:49 mbuf ? .ipk files do not belong in cvs Oct 15 06:02:12 openmoko: 03laforge * r3164 10/trunk/src/target/u-boot/patches/ (series uboot-neo1973_defaultconsole_usbtty.patch): add a patch to make usbtty the default u-boot console Oct 15 06:07:07 roh, ok, so where would i upload them in GForge in projects.openmoko.org? Oct 15 06:08:57 roh, i mean .ipk release Oct 15 06:09:33 mbuf: you would submit a .bb file to OE, and add the package to openmoko-feed.bb Oct 15 06:09:49 (having the OE package download your source from projects.openmoko.org) Oct 15 06:10:19 rwhitby hm.. somehow a autobuild for stuff in there would be nice.. Oct 15 06:10:21 then the openmoko autobuilder would build your package and add it to the official feed automatically Oct 15 06:10:46 rwhitby, i don't want to integrate with OE as of now; am thinking of uploading source code (.tar.gz) and .bb to cvs; and then release a binary .ipk of the same? Oct 15 06:10:47 roh: stuff in openmoko-feed.bb gets build each time mickey|dinner kicks off the official builder Oct 15 06:11:18 mbuf: you can do that, but someone else will just take your .bb and add it to OE, so that the ipk gets built by the official builder. Oct 15 06:11:56 The thing is - how do I trust your .ipk? I'd rather trust one that is built by a central resource (where nefarious things get found quickly) than by a single individual Oct 15 06:12:01 rwhitby, i see; newbie here, so i'd just leave it at that; still learning Oct 15 06:12:16 (no offense to you - I'm sure you won't do anything nefarious - it's a general principle) Oct 15 06:12:38 rwhitby, maybe we can GPG sign the .ipk packages? Oct 15 06:12:56 doesn't matter - I still don't know you from a bar of soap Oct 15 06:13:11 rwhitby, thanks for your explanation Oct 15 06:13:27 I may even want to only use packages that I build on my own build host if I am really paranoid. Oct 15 06:13:52 OE is different from Debian in that respect. No binary uploads by individual developers. Oct 15 06:14:03 rwhitby, i see Oct 15 06:14:48 it also makes sure that *everyone* can build the package from source, not just you. Oct 15 06:15:09 (in case you disappear, and we need to rebuild the binary ipk) Oct 15 06:15:40 rwhitby, so, i'd just update the source code in cvs at projects.openmoko.org and then submit the .bb file to OE; in the .bb file i set SRC_URI to source code at projects.openmoko.org? Oct 15 06:15:48 yep Oct 15 06:15:55 rwhitby, cool, thanks Oct 15 06:16:18 np - thanks for the contribution. Oct 15 06:47:45 openmoko: 03laforge * r3165 10/trunk/src/target/u-boot/patches/ (uboot-s3c2440.patch uboot-s3c2442.patch uboot-s3c2443.patch): Oct 15 06:47:45 openmoko: typos are evil. consistently calling things CONFOG instead of CONFIG doesn't Oct 15 06:47:45 openmoko: really help. s/CONFOG/CONFIG/g Oct 15 06:53:06 haha Oct 15 06:56:53 heh Oct 15 06:58:28 openmoko: 03laforge * r3166 10/trunk/src/target/u-boot/patches/ (uboot-20061030-neo1973.patch uboot-gta02.patch): remove bash'isms from split_by_variant.sh scripts (Marius Nuennerich) (Closes: #811) Oct 15 07:52:06 hi Oct 15 08:18:27 hi Oct 15 08:20:49 hi Oct 15 08:24:07 hello Oct 15 08:24:33 can anyone help we with running openmoko in qemu nder ubunut? Oct 15 08:25:58 did you read this wiki-page: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Automatic_emulation_in_Ubuntu ? Oct 15 08:27:26 yes I tried it with this workaround but the same problem appears as in this article at the bottom Oct 15 08:27:40 Elessar_81: try it under freebsd, works great ;) Oct 15 08:28:05 Maledictus hrhr Oct 15 08:28:31 so I should install an new linux even while this image doesn't work. Oct 15 08:28:45 Elessar_81: are you the Elessar from bsdgroup.de? Oct 15 08:29:10 no I never visited that sie I think Oct 15 08:29:21 that site Oct 15 08:29:36 oh, sorry, then i misinterpreted your name. ignore my comment :) Oct 15 08:30:50 ok but if my ubuntu is one day so boring I will install frebsd maybe ;-) Oct 15 08:31:12 hehe, ok Oct 15 08:33:36 so it works with freebsd. did you use the makefile or the ubuntu way? Oct 15 08:35:57 manual Oct 15 08:36:38 I tried this wiki to, but with the same error. so the problem seems to be my system Oct 15 08:37:48 has anyone seen a combo box anywhere in the stock openmoko interface? Oct 15 08:42:48 openmoko: 03laforge * r3167 10/trunk/src/target/kernel/patches/asoc-neo1973_wm8753-power.patch: Oct 15 08:42:48 openmoko: This patch fixes the current leak caused by not shutting down the audio Oct 15 08:42:48 openmoko: amplifier during suspend/resume and after power-down. See bug Oct 15 08:42:48 openmoko: http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=781 Oct 15 08:45:11 Ah, nice patches lately Oct 15 08:45:18 * CM is back from Poland Oct 15 08:48:47 openmoko: 03laforge * r3168 10/trunk/src/target/kernel/patches/series: add the asoc amplifier power down fix to the series Oct 15 08:51:08 how was poland Oct 15 08:56:45 CM: where in Poland? Oct 15 08:57:14 xzcvczxx: openmoko-tasks use combo for categories iirc Oct 15 08:57:35 hrw: ah thanks Oct 15 08:58:01 xzcvczxx: and this is wrong ;) Oct 15 08:58:13 oh Oct 15 09:00:48 xzcvczxx: tis is wrong in this place ofcourse Oct 15 09:01:04 xzcvczxx: dates, tasks - both use combox in edit of event/task Oct 15 09:02:13 openmoko: 03laforge * r3169 10/trunk/src/target/kernel/patches/ (arm-atag-kexec.patch series): Oct 15 09:02:13 openmoko: Add patch to fix kexec() on ARM machines that need the ATAG structure to be Oct 15 09:02:13 openmoko: passed from the bootloader in order to properly boot. (Closes: Oct 15 09:02:13 openmoko: http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=930) Oct 15 09:08:49 hrw: Gdansk Oct 15 09:09:02 hrw: I've been to Krakow 2 years ago too Oct 15 09:09:17 You have excellent kebabs ;) Oct 15 09:12:49 we know ;) Oct 15 09:19:42 are there any sample GTK+ packages that show how to implement a progressbar? Oct 15 09:20:15 aren't there a progressbar-class or something? Oct 15 09:21:16 zash`, its like, i let the user invoke a function to do the back-end, and while backend is running, progressbar should be displayed; i don't have an example for this -> http://www.gtk.org/faq/#AEN602 Oct 15 09:31:17 ~lart neod a bit Oct 15 09:31:17 * apt chops neod a bit in half with a free AOL CD Oct 15 09:40:51 hi Oct 15 09:41:04 Hello Oct 15 09:43:50 cm do you have a GTA01 ? Oct 15 09:43:55 Yes Oct 15 09:44:09 still work fine? Oct 15 09:44:34 Well, I've messed up my partition table a bit but yes, it works :) Oct 15 09:45:04 I haven't been able to try the GPS yet though. Been to lazy to set up a chroot Oct 15 09:45:52 didn't take very much effore Oct 15 09:45:55 effort* Oct 15 09:46:03 I tried out qtopia+gps over the weekend Oct 15 09:46:05 worked fine Oct 15 09:46:14 Kliment: Ah, nice Oct 15 09:46:22 buy it on the direct.openmoko.com? Oct 15 09:46:24 Is there a new qtopia release out? I've been away 5 days Oct 15 09:46:44 cow73: Yes, I ordered it there as soon as it opened Oct 15 09:46:50 not in the last 5 days I think Oct 15 09:47:09 Kliment: Ok, thanks. Just know ljp was working on a new release Oct 15 09:48:08 but the developer version required installation of openmoko on the first power on? Oct 15 09:48:36 Yes, back then. Not sure that's needed with the current batch Oct 15 09:48:38 cow73: or any subsequent poweron Oct 15 09:49:01 nop Oct 15 09:49:05 CM: I'll have a look, maybe I haven't noticed it either Oct 15 09:49:24 openmoko: 03thomas * r3170 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-dialer2/ (ChangeLog configure.ac src/Makefile.am): Oct 15 09:49:24 openmoko: * configure.ac: Oct 15 09:49:24 openmoko: * src/Makefile.am: Oct 15 09:49:24 openmoko: Prevent CFLAGS from being obliterated Oct 15 09:49:34 when the phone arrived on my address, it's drop? (never has openmoko inside?) Oct 15 09:49:56 cow73: What do you mean? Oct 15 09:50:51 the developer version had (inside) the openmoko installed or i install it the first time? Oct 15 09:51:09 you need ot instal it Oct 15 09:51:15 the software.. Oct 15 09:51:33 you'll have uboot installed already... but you'll need the rootfs and kernel Oct 15 09:53:06 it's difficult? Oct 15 09:53:24 No, and it's very well described in the wiki Oct 15 09:53:36 morning all Oct 15 09:53:40 You can not brick your phone doing it Oct 15 09:53:48 Any_Key: Morning :) Oct 15 09:54:24 cow73: As long as you don't mess up your u-boot, you can still fix the phone without a debug board Oct 15 09:55:19 CM, wanna see what primitive "analysis" of ts_harvest.out gave? Oct 15 09:55:34 CM you're still there after 2 hour? Oct 15 09:55:37 Any_Key: Sure! Want me to do any more tests? Oct 15 09:55:47 cow73: Sure, I'm always here ;) Oct 15 09:56:05 thank, see you later Oct 15 09:56:25 Any_Key: Hmm.. Might be blocked :/ Oct 15 09:56:41 * CM is running irssi on a university server Oct 15 09:57:18 CM: irssi + screen is the shit :) Oct 15 09:57:36 Sure is. :) Oct 15 09:58:11 CM, OK i'll post it elsewhere,i'll fill a bug, I don't really know is it bug in driver or ts_* tools :-) Oct 15 09:58:47 Any_Key: Ok. Just say if you want me to run any more tests or so Oct 15 10:01:08 no thanks it looks pretty simple, X measured as Y and inverted, Y measured as X and multiplied by 2. looks as typo of some sort Oct 15 10:02:01 * * OM Bug 932 has been created by erin_yueh(AT)openmoko.com Oct 15 10:02:02 * * not receive new SMS message event in openmoko-today Oct 15 10:02:03 * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=932 Oct 15 10:04:34 CM, http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/4930/tsharvestgraphkg8.png Oct 15 10:05:05 shit I forgot my neo in belgium Oct 15 10:07:59 Any_Key: Nice graphs. I'm guessing it's the ts tools that are weird, since using the phone works just fine Oct 15 10:08:00 so two weeks with no neo Oct 15 10:08:36 mornin' Oct 15 10:14:45 CM, graphs where the simple ones from OOfice, I'll think a little where I'll fill a bug. Oct 15 10:15:03 * CM nods Oct 15 10:15:54 hu stephmw Oct 15 10:15:58 hi Oct 15 10:16:15 Kliment, ask the person who have your Neo to plug in to the net and ssh in to it. Oct 15 10:19:05 CM, I'll ask on #oe Oct 15 10:30:42 hello guys. I upgraded my neo with the latest resources but now the UI doesn't boot up. Why? Oct 15 10:32:08 vcialia what exactyl did you? Oct 15 10:33:12 just "./dfu-util -a kernel -R -D ./uImage-2.6.22.5-moko11+svnr2937-r3-fic-gta01.bin" and "./dfu-util -a rootfs -R -D ./openmoko-devel-image-fic-gta01.jffs2" Oct 15 10:33:40 i also got a "Dialer: Error connecting to gsmd" Oct 15 10:41:49 vciaglia, try restarting gsmd after boot-up?, "/etc/init.d/gsmd restart" Oct 15 10:43:23 mbuf: i think that until i can't boot-up the UI...i can't ssh in the phone and setting up networking Oct 15 10:44:50 vciaglia where did you download the image? Oct 15 10:45:34 woglinde: the uImage here: http://buildhost.openmoko.org/OM2007.2/tmp/deploy/glibc/images/fic-gta01/ while the openmoko-devel-image here: http://buildhost.automated.it/OM2007.2/?M=D Oct 15 10:46:04 vciaglia, yes; i use uImage-2.6.22.5-moko11+svnr2937-r0-fic-gta01.bin, Oct 15 10:46:09 but now i'm flashing with the openmoko-devel of the location of uImage. Oct 15 10:46:22 what? Oct 15 10:46:50 vciaglia, supposed to be a october snapshot, name is september, OpenMoko-openmoko-devel-image-glibc-ipk-P1-September-Snapshot-20070917-fic-gta01.rootfs.jffs2 Oct 15 10:47:30 mbuf: yep, now i'm flashing with the september snapshot Oct 15 10:48:07 vciaglia, ok Oct 15 10:48:49 openmoko: 03laforge * r3171 10/trunk/src/target/kernel/patches/ (gta01-vibrator.patch s3c2410-pwm.patch): Oct 15 10:48:49 openmoko: S3c24xx timer4 doesn't have PWM support, so don't even try to use it for that. Oct 15 10:48:49 openmoko: Also, refuse to reconfigure the prescaler 1 (shared between timer 2,3,4), since Oct 15 10:48:49 openmoko: that would modify the kernel timer clock tick. Oct 15 10:50:21 mbuf: are you using GSM too? Oct 15 10:50:37 vciaglia, yes Oct 15 10:50:51 mbuf: with this snapshot? Oct 15 10:50:58 vciaglia, yes Oct 15 10:51:12 mbuf: nice, i have to try then :) Oct 15 10:53:38 mbuf: d'oh... i see a lot of X images now... Oct 15 10:54:11 vciaglia, been there, you need to nand erase before you reflash rootfs.jffs2 Oct 15 10:54:58 vciaglia, see "nand erase rootfs" step here, http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Flashing_openmoko#Actually_flashing_things_into_the_device Oct 15 10:55:25 mbuf: thanks i'm here: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Nand_erase Oct 15 10:56:11 vciaglia, there are many redundant HOWTOs in the wiki; needs some clean-up Oct 15 10:56:47 umh.. Oct 15 10:56:48 # cu -l /dev/ttyACM0 Oct 15 10:56:48 cu: open (/dev/ttyACM0): No such file or directory Oct 15 10:56:48 cu: /dev/ttyACM0: Line in use Oct 15 10:57:04 vciaglia, you need to reboot the phone into u-boot mode, connect to PC Oct 15 10:57:11 vciaglia: dont run cu as root Oct 15 10:57:39 ok i'm going to try Oct 15 10:58:34 vciaglia, you can reflash u-boot to u-boot-gta01bv4-latest.bin, to avoid doing the nand erase step, everytime you reflash the rootfs; if you don't have debug board, it is up to you to do take this decision Oct 15 10:58:53 NAND erase: device 0 offset 0x2e4000, size 0x3d1c000 Oct 15 10:58:54 OK Oct 15 11:01:04 and now i'm flashing again with the september snapshot Oct 15 11:06:44 mbuf: i haven't the debug board. Should i upgrade to "uboot-gta01bv4-latest.bin"? The wiki says no. Oct 15 11:09:39 vciaglia, don't then; only thing is you have to do this nand erase everytime; else if there is someone having a debug board close to your place, then you can try it; Oct 15 11:10:09 mbuf: ok, thank you. Let's see if it's working now. Oct 15 11:10:26 vciaglia, it is as simple as flash rootfs or uImage, no different; but AFAIK, after this latest u-boot, which fixes few things, you don't need to flash u-boot in future Oct 15 11:10:32 vciaglia, anytime Oct 15 11:11:08 ok.. Oct 15 11:15:24 mbuf: it's ok now! Thank you for your informations. However i still have the question mark for GSM. Oct 15 11:16:46 vciaglia, your welcome; please submit any bugs to http://bugzilla.openmoko.org; it will help the team a lot! Oct 15 11:23:31 mbuf: have you used some patch to fix the gsm "question mark" problem? Oct 15 11:23:53 vciaglia, what is the "question mark" problem? Oct 15 11:24:17 mbuf: i can't register with my network and a question mark is showed Oct 15 11:24:54 vciaglia, after boot-up, i restart gsmd, using "/etc/init.d/gsmd restart"; due to some boot-up gsmd timing issue; after that I use AT commands manually to test it Oct 15 11:27:14 vciaglia, try this, http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Manually_using_GSM#Registering_with_the_Network Oct 15 11:28:59 mbuf: i'm going to try Oct 15 11:37:56 vciaglia, if gsmd crashed, check if gsmd is still running, "lsof | grep tty"; also check /tmp/gsm.log, Oct 15 11:43:23 http://buildhost.automated.it/OM2007.2/qtopia-image-fic-gta01.jffs2. Is this the qtopia os? Oct 15 11:52:54 hi all Oct 15 11:54:29 vciaglia: yes Oct 15 11:54:32 well shit, they went for the atmel gps Oct 15 11:55:04 ewon: slowly catching up are we ;) Oct 15 11:55:14 haven't been on the channel for a while :) Oct 15 12:05:13 ewon: shit? Oct 15 12:05:34 LaF0rge: "well shit", as in a form of exclamation Oct 15 12:05:47 ewon: i see. Oct 15 12:05:49 say it with a south-texas-sheriff accent Oct 15 12:06:03 sheeet Oct 15 12:06:10 exactly. Oct 15 12:06:11 ewon: well, I'm german, so particularly colloquial use of en_US might not be parsed correctly on this side Oct 15 12:06:17 I'm en_IE :) Oct 15 12:06:36 ewon: Try mozilla :-) Oct 15 12:06:42 might have know, an IE user ;) Oct 15 12:06:47 known Oct 15 12:06:53 hah, nein! Oct 15 12:07:05 Any more interesting stuff these last 4 days? :) Oct 15 12:07:18 * LaF0rge is finally writing code again. yay. Oct 15 12:07:18 * CM tries to chatch up too Oct 15 12:07:22 \o/ Oct 15 12:07:35 LaF0rge: We've noticed, and we're happy too ;) Oct 15 12:07:36 yay! Oct 15 12:07:38 some guy called CM said he would buy everyone in the channel an 02 the day before yesterday Oct 15 12:07:51 :> Oct 15 12:08:16 ScaredyCat: Oh, that must have been after all those cheap Lech and Mojitos on saturday night.. ;) Oct 15 12:08:16 I have an interview at the US embassy thursday, and will then be moving to LA by the end of the month Oct 15 12:08:18 woot :D Oct 15 12:08:23 openmoko: 03werner * r3172 10/trunk/src/host/usbpath/Makefile.am: Makefile.am: also install lsusbpath Oct 15 12:08:32 the confog commit was funny...reminded me of the post in worse the failure Oct 15 12:08:34 hehehhe Oct 15 12:08:44 * CM is moving to Stockholm to work for HiQ Oct 15 12:09:24 fjollträsk! Oct 15 12:10:15 hi @ all Oct 15 12:10:21 o/ Oct 15 12:10:21 cM! Oct 15 12:10:34 I hope my v8 will be done before then :P Oct 15 12:11:07 ScaredyCat: Hehe.. I'll flogg the poor workers at the manufacturing so you'll have your christmas present ;) Oct 15 12:11:14 hehehe Oct 15 12:19:54 LOL @ CM Oct 15 12:44:00 openmoko: 03laforge * r3173 10/trunk/src/target/kernel/patches/gta01-vibrator.patch: Oct 15 12:44:00 openmoko: increase vibrator PWM frequency to 257kHz (66MHz / 2 / 2 / 64) to be outside Oct 15 12:44:00 openmoko: the human-audible range. It's a vibrator, not a 4kHz beeper! Oct 15 12:44:52 openmoko: 03laforge * r3174 10/trunk/src/target/kernel/patches/smedia-glamo.patch: the spi bus is number 2 (0+1 are s3c24xx internal spi0 and spi1) Oct 15 12:46:10 haha Oct 15 12:46:13 nice bug Oct 15 12:46:38 sounds some children has acces to the phone Oct 15 12:47:23 those children ... always getting mixed up with the spi bus. Oct 15 12:47:30 heh Oct 15 12:48:38 not the spi Oct 15 12:48:50 the beeper Oct 15 12:49:13 sounds we can use the neo to protecd us from underage rubbers Oct 15 12:49:35 args Oct 15 12:49:57 robbers Oct 15 12:52:19 Hey, guys... here's another hair-brained scheme I'm noodling. Porting PocketSphinx to the neo. Oct 15 12:53:07 I short, I think it would be awesome to have speech recognition on the phone capable of both dial-by-voice, and dictation for e-mail. Oct 15 12:54:02 speech recognition and dictation aren't quite the same thing Oct 15 12:54:14 are you sure sphinx does both? Oct 15 12:54:22 i think it's just for speech recognition. Oct 15 12:54:45 as in, it will try to determine a best match within a set of choices Oct 15 12:55:16 It actually does both. Oct 15 12:55:28 oh yeah? alrighty, then. Oct 15 12:55:46 And, it's released (recently) under a BSD-like license :-D Oct 15 12:56:02 http://sourceforge.net/projects/cmusphinx/ Oct 15 12:57:05 The tiny touch-keyboard on the iPhone sucks big-time, and it can only be worse on the neo. Voice entry could be pretty handy on such devices. Oct 15 12:57:17 agreed Oct 15 12:57:29 isn't the latest version of sphinx in java? Oct 15 12:57:48 i haven't looked at it in a long time, obviously ... Oct 15 12:58:02 Version 4 is in Java, but version 3 (on which PocketSphinx is based) is pure C. Oct 15 12:58:11 perfect Oct 15 12:58:19 They use the same data models, though. Oct 15 12:59:02 I'd start building it now, but I'm rebuilding the openmoko stuff from scratch, so I've got a few hours to kill. Guess maybe I'll do some work I actually get paid for. Oct 15 12:59:16 heh Oct 15 13:15:09 hello, can anyone tell me why i am getting this message, NOTE: python-gsmd-0.01: svn://svn.projects.openmoko.org/svnroot/python-openmoko has no entry in conf/checksums.ini, not checking URI, and if checksums.ini is the cause, how do i remove this message and make the build system build newer code Oct 15 13:17:34 uhm, does the wolfson chip in the moko support ac97 and is it implemented in the driver? Oct 15 13:18:39 what do you mean by that? Oct 15 13:18:56 It is basically a sound card and mixer chip all in one. Oct 15 13:20:58 Sup3rkiddo: that warning is harmless - it's an option check on the contents of the download Oct 15 13:21:02 optional Oct 15 13:21:04 Sup3rkiddo: this message has nothing common with building newer or older code Oct 15 13:21:45 well, alsa provides some ac97 functions that could help saving a few (milli)watts Oct 15 13:23:16 but from the output, i dont see new code being checked out, or is the output being surpressed? Oct 15 13:23:33 battery goes into deep sleep, when Neo1973 is connected to the PC the whole day? Oct 15 13:26:13 LittleIdiot: it implements a whole heap of suspend modes. Oct 15 13:26:33 LittleIdiot: These could map to any suspend modes you like Oct 15 13:27:22 Though doing a fully general solution is annoyingly complex. Oct 15 13:27:46 LittleIdiot: ASoC (ALSA System on Chip) do more then those simple thhings in ac97 Oct 15 13:28:25 LittleIdiot: only needed parts of audio subssytem are powered, they are also powered in proper order etc Oct 15 13:28:34 openmoko: 03thomas * r3175 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-dialer2/ (ChangeLog src/moko-dialer-panel.c): Oct 15 13:28:34 openmoko: * src/moko-dialer-panel.c: (moko_dialer_panel_init), Oct 15 13:28:34 openmoko: (moko_dialer_panel_pressed): Oct 15 13:28:34 openmoko: Don't use -1 as a char value Oct 15 13:28:43 For example, the audio can route from the audio output of the GSM chip, to the headphones, with the CPU complewtly off. Oct 15 13:41:11 anyone know what the best way to rotate the screen would be in a c program? Oct 15 13:41:50 <_diego_> system('xrandr ...'); ? Oct 15 13:42:12 _diego_: was thinking that but reasonably ugly Oct 15 13:42:20 <_diego_> ok... it's quite a hack :) Oct 15 13:42:43 _diego_: unfourtunately it may be my only option though :( Oct 15 13:42:57 it would by nice if somehow it would be remembered what orientation you last had for an executable, and automatically use that orientation again the next time it is started.. Oct 15 13:43:57 Mek: i wish it was just implemented in the gtk library.... as more and more embedded devices move to linux/gtk we may actually see this. Oct 15 13:44:42 uhm... I want this even for non-gtk applications :P Oct 15 13:45:50 Mek: well gtk/qt/everything equivalent to this Oct 15 13:46:46 I think it thus would make more sense to implement it at a lower level than at the gtk/qt/sdl/... level so you only have to implement it once, and it just works for every X app... Oct 15 13:48:11 x11 libraries then i guess Oct 15 13:49:46 what level does xrandr use, as logically if you used that you would be able to incorporate it into your program Oct 15 13:51:47 you will want to integrate the output of the accelerometers to automgically rotate Oct 15 13:52:22 I wonder if the x11 libs are not too low level for this Oct 15 13:52:56 not all apps want to be rotated... Oct 15 13:54:50 As far as the app is concerned - it's 'just' a window resize. Oct 15 13:54:59 Which some deal with better than others. Oct 15 13:55:43 * xzcvczx hates c/libraries built for it.... api's/doco is so hard to find for it Oct 15 13:56:07 !seen prpplague Oct 15 13:56:08 prpplague (n=dave@mail.americanmicrosystems.com) was last seen quitting from #openmoko 2 days, 15 hours, 58 minutes ago stating ({"Leaving"}). Oct 15 13:59:52 hmmm sweet it seems you might be able to use Xrandr.h for rotation in a program Oct 15 14:00:04 i guess you would want to make sure you return it before you quit though Oct 15 14:00:17 otherwise you will be stuck with rotated screen til you turn it back Oct 15 14:01:02 That's the icky way IMO. Oct 15 14:01:20 SpeedEvil: well whats less icky than that? Oct 15 14:01:43 The whole thing needs to auto-rotate sensibly. Oct 15 14:02:06 Otherwise you get the top-bar at the left with the writing going the wrong way Oct 15 14:02:22 Some system daemon that does the rotating. Oct 15 14:02:28 well when my program has it rotated the program is in actual full screen mode Oct 15 14:02:36 And all applications just deal with window resize events the right way. Oct 15 14:03:09 SpeedEvil: but it also needs to deal with rotating the widgets Oct 15 14:03:28 The whole screen is rotated as I understand it. Oct 15 14:03:48 xrandr rotates the whole screen, yes Oct 15 14:03:58 To the applications, it just looks like your window has been resized from 480*630 to 630*480 Oct 15 14:04:19 The rotation is done at a deeper layer that the app never sees. Oct 15 14:04:25 (usually) Oct 15 14:04:28 oh ok Oct 15 14:07:12 has anyone tried a fullscreen program yet? do they fully fullscreen(removing top and bottom bars) Oct 15 14:07:53 Does the calculator rotate? Oct 15 14:08:19 xzcvczx: ScummVM works in fullscreen Oct 15 14:08:32 sweet Oct 15 14:08:39 solves that Oct 15 14:09:03 No top bars visible or so Oct 15 14:14:24 uhm, will the pulseaudio server be used in the future as well, or was/is this just a temporary solution? Oct 15 14:14:55 i'm asking because i saw it only in some images, while others didn't have it Oct 15 14:16:46 ...or in other words: when writing an audio application, shall i rather implement the audio stuff with alsa or for pulseaudio? Oct 15 14:17:07 openmoko: 03werner * r3176 10/trunk/src/host/devirginator/envedit.pl: Oct 15 14:17:07 openmoko: envedit.pl: added option "-s size" to set environment size in bytes (for large Oct 15 14:17:07 openmoko: page NAND) Oct 15 14:17:07 openmoko: envedit.pl: added option "-I dir" to add a path name element to @INC, to allow Oct 15 14:17:07 openmoko: envedit.pl to be run from other directories than "." Oct 15 14:17:08 openmoko: envedit.pl: if there's a path in $0, automatically add it to @INC Oct 15 14:17:51 LittleIdiot: An optimally flexible thing I think can't use ALSA. Oct 15 14:18:17 LittleIdiot: It needs some daemon to assign A/D and D/A channels on the fly. Oct 15 14:19:03 For exampe - you're playing an mp3 over headphones when a call comes in that you have the caller number in your automatic 'drop to internal voicemail' list. Oct 15 14:20:56 This means that you need to work out what A/Ds and D/As are free and reconfigure routing so that this happens without the users mp3 being interrupted. Oct 15 14:21:39 Which may in some cases mean downmixing the MP3 to mono, as you've run out of D/As. Oct 15 14:21:44 yep, i know... but i haven't found any document in the wiki that describes guidelines for audio apps. maybe someday the "deciding people" fall for jack or esd and my app needs patching... Oct 15 14:22:09 I think mickeyl said pulse audio will be used Oct 15 14:22:14 Something that talks ALSA directly will break this. Oct 15 14:23:44 lol if you are looking for something equivalent to vnc dont even think about bothering with NX its total crap Oct 15 14:24:48 yep, or wont even start because pulseaudio has claimed the device... Oct 15 14:26:44 hello, so the build system is still building old code even if i rm -rf the build directory in additon to the usual make clean-package. new code from svn://svn.projects.openmoko.org/svnroot/python-openmoko is being checked out. I am getting a " has no entry in conf/checksums.ini" warning. i dunno if this is the cause, but where the hell is the code lying after cleaning everything up..beats me Oct 15 14:26:52 LittleIdiot: You are invited to assume that PulseAudio is here to stay. Oct 15 14:27:08 oh dang, sorry, that was long Oct 15 14:27:27 *is not checked out Oct 15 14:28:18 abraxa_: I just hope Lennart isn't too busy playing with his Mango Lassi ;) Oct 15 14:28:58 CM: Oh I'm sure we'll see tons of development for it still - it works quite fine as it is already anyways :) Oct 15 14:29:27 Yes, but I find it a bit tricky to configure still. Oct 15 14:29:47 Mostly because of my own laziness I'm afraid.. :P Oct 15 14:30:15 CM: Maybe so, I only used it on the Neo and my desktop so far - samba was way harder to configure, f.ex. ;) Oct 15 14:30:57 I'm reading the long mail Lennart posted to the desktop-devel list last friday Oct 15 14:31:17 Sup3rkiddo: Did you delete the stamp files, too? Oct 15 14:31:33 CM: Got a link? Oct 15 14:31:43 abraxa_: http://mail.gnome.org/archives/desktop-devel-list/2007-October/msg00136.html Oct 15 14:31:48 Thankies Oct 15 14:31:50 abraxa_, hmm...no, but shouldnt it be done automatically? pardon me for the ignorance Oct 15 14:31:59 and where are they located? Oct 15 14:32:12 Sup3rkiddo: It should but can't hurt trying - build/tmp/stamps/arm... Oct 15 14:32:27 abraxa_, ok, thanks for the hint Oct 15 14:32:29 abraxa_: Isn't he just building the svn checkout? Oct 15 14:32:55 yes Oct 15 14:32:57 Sup3rkiddo: Or is it in the official openmoko? Building with bitbake or the makefile? Oct 15 14:33:08 CM: If there are no sources in build/tmp/work/arm... then something else must be flawed Oct 15 14:33:59 CM, makefile, i just want the ipk to be built, dont want to upgrade my rootfs and possible spoil the gsmd which was working flawlessly in saturday's tree Oct 15 14:34:07 Ah, ok Oct 15 14:34:17 what may this message mean: "JFFS2 notice: (846) check_node_data: wrong data CRC in data node at 0x02bab600: read 0x353cef32, calculated 0x60c9f407."? Oct 15 14:34:29 ..so doing make-build-package- and cleaning it up Oct 15 14:34:37 Once my emerge -u --deep world is done I'll try to build a fresh new image :) Oct 15 14:34:39 CM: What's that "spaceboy distro"? Oct 15 14:34:48 Gentoo? Oct 15 14:34:48 abraxa_: Ubuntu Oct 15 14:34:51 Oh Oct 15 14:35:05 Mark "Spaceboy" Shuttleworth.. ;) Oct 15 14:35:12 Unheard of :) Oct 15 14:35:26 Well, he was the first space tourist Oct 15 14:35:42 emdete: If it's on the device then it sounds like that memory cell has gone bad Oct 15 14:36:01 CM: What does that have to do with Ubuntu? Oct 15 14:37:09 funny i use both gentoo and debian, and they are sure flame baits in the respectvie channel Oct 15 14:37:45 debian is jesus. apt-get jesus. Oct 15 14:38:00 * juri_ is a debian zealot. :) Oct 15 14:38:21 Grrr.... has anyone else just seen svn.openmoko.org freeze up, or is it just me? Oct 15 14:38:22 abraxa_: yes, it's on the neo... so i destroyed a cell already? :( Oct 15 14:38:49 emdete: Not destroyed - normal wear Oct 15 14:39:11 abraxa_: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Shuttleworth Oct 15 14:39:13 :) Oct 15 14:41:04 Holy crap. Oct 15 14:41:22 Sometimes I envy those guys. Oct 15 14:42:10 Making more money they can ever spend in a life time... for comparatively tiny inventions. Oct 15 14:42:41 And using it to doing only what you want to do :) Oct 15 14:43:08 * CM thinks he's using it very wisely Oct 15 14:44:17 deleting the stamps and repeating the steps doesnt work =( Oct 15 14:45:16 Sup3rkiddo: What do you want to do exactly? (Sorry, joined too late) Oct 15 14:46:05 yum.. does any one have a prebuilt package for fbreader? :) Oct 15 14:47:16 abraxa_, ok actually i got some code in the svn..modified the recipes accordingly...yesterday make-build-package-python-gsmd worked, checking out the code..today i moved around some code and when i repeat the steps, yesterdays code is getting built even if i manually delete the build dir or use make-clean-package. Oct 15 14:47:56 Is buildhost.openmoko.org down? Oct 15 14:48:33 Sup3rkiddo: How do you know the old code is getting built? Does bitbake jump right to do_compile? Oct 15 14:50:24 abraxa_, wait from this svn://svn.projects.openmoko.org/svnroot/python-openmoko has no entry in conf/checksums.ini, not checking URI, besides cding into the workdir after doing a make build-package-, Oct 15 14:50:57 ls shows yesterdays code, so that must be getting built Oct 15 14:51:19 ~seen roh Oct 15 14:51:21 roh is currently on #oe (2d 16h 22m 59s) #openmoko (2d 16h 22m 59s). Has said a total of 116 messages. Is idling for 6h 23m 16s, last said: 'Maledictus hrhr'. Oct 15 14:51:32 ~seen Sup3rkiddo Oct 15 14:51:34 sup3rkiddo is currently on #debian (2h 59m 11s) #oe (2h 59m 11s) #openmoko (2h 59m 11s). Has said a total of 18 messages. Is idling for 1s, last said: '~seen Sup3rkiddo'. Oct 15 14:51:45 ooh..sexy Oct 15 14:53:26 Sup3rkiddo: Hmm... I'd run bitbake by hand and have it be verbose to see what is happening internally Oct 15 14:53:46 abraxa_, ah, ok...cool...i didnt think of that Oct 15 14:54:20 Sup3rkiddo: source setup-env; cd build; bitbake -v -c [command] [package] Oct 15 14:54:30 yup doing it Oct 15 14:54:34 :) Oct 15 15:03:26 CM: Do you agree with Lennart's assessment? Oct 15 15:03:39 abraxa_, bah, -v doesnt help, only dependencies are output in a verbose manner..let me shoot a mail to the good ol' lists...thanks for your time ;) Oct 15 15:03:58 abraxa_: HEh, havent finished reading yet. I'm at work and for some reason people still keep interrupting! ;) Oct 15 15:04:04 Sup3rkiddo: There's still -D to try but yeah... might as well. :) Oct 15 15:04:14 CM: Spank them. Oct 15 15:04:50 * Sup3rkiddo bows to abraxa_ Oct 15 15:05:32 lol ;p Oct 15 15:15:06 any idea on that webkit compile-problem? https://nopaste.eof.name/249 Oct 15 15:15:18 long time since my last build Oct 15 15:16:44 anybody else having trouble building mtpaint? Oct 15 15:17:15 How do I say "Oops, this won't build; leave it out of the image and move on"? Oct 15 15:18:13 nelson remove the dependency from the bb recipe Oct 15 15:20:28 kristian-m: I don't recognize that error, but last time bitbake -c rebuild qmake2-native icu; bitbake -c rebuild webkit-gtk fixed it for me Oct 15 15:20:32 tnx Oct 15 15:20:42 If that doesnt' work I've rebuilt from scratch Oct 15 15:23:59 CM okay thx - i'll try that Oct 15 15:24:36 kristian-m: Maybe just qmake2-native would be enough for you Oct 15 15:25:12 CM well, it's runnung both now -we'll never now ;-) Oct 15 15:25:31 Hehe.. It looked like it didnt' find webkit at all Oct 15 15:33:24 CM done - that was it. Thanks. - I still don't know how this could happen though... Oct 15 15:33:54 kristian-m: Me neither. I have my suspicions that it's something with qmake, but what I can't say Oct 15 16:06:48 Sup3rkiddo: you haven't told bitbake which svn revision to check out. Oct 15 16:07:35 rwhitby, no, i didnt, but i thought makefile will intstruct the svn to fetch the latest revision, no? Oct 15 16:07:43 no Oct 15 16:08:01 that is the antithesis of a stable build environment Oct 15 16:08:41 and something we fought against for 6 months and only just got SRCREV support fully deployed in OpenMoko. Oct 15 16:11:28 rwhitby, oh!, so i guess one way would be to create some nightly tarballs or add the line src_rev? Oct 15 16:12:05 look at the other openmoko svn recipes, and in conf/distro/include/sane-srcrevs.inc Oct 15 16:13:54 right Oct 15 16:14:13 rwhitby: From what I gather he however wants to use it to develop, so tying it down to a specific revision might not be what he wants Oct 15 16:14:31 * abraxa_ wonders if he got it right Oct 15 16:14:35 yeah, abraxa_ thanks for bringing that up Oct 15 16:15:15 i would wish for the build system to checkout the latest svn revision, but i understand it hurts the stability of the environment? Oct 15 16:15:19 abraxa_: that's when you put some AUTOREV thing in local.conf - I'm not clear on the syntax, ask in #oe. Oct 15 16:15:43 i better google before asking there =P Oct 15 16:15:47 rwhitby: I tried that and it doesn't work from what I can see :( Oct 15 16:16:08 the default should be stability (with the latest tested version to be built), and the author/testers set up instability locally to be able to test new versions. Oct 15 16:16:31 using OE for development is the wrong idea anyway, but unfortunately there is no current alternative in OpenMoko. Oct 15 16:16:41 Amen to that :) Oct 15 16:17:21 evening all. Oct 15 16:17:35 Good evening, guri! Oct 15 16:17:48 * guri is still working out the details of this flashing using debug board Oct 15 16:18:21 to compound the issue I have GTA bv4 + Debug Board v3......distinct lack of documentation Oct 15 16:19:06 hey abraxa_ Oct 15 16:19:15 From what I know there's no difference between the debug boards when it comes to JTAG operation Oct 15 16:19:47 that's what I can make out...but after an 8 hour work day I'm not sure I fancy spending another 8 hours "playing" Oct 15 16:20:06 You have a broken uboot-env, righ? Oct 15 16:20:13 abraxa_, yup :( Oct 15 16:20:33 Hm Oct 15 16:20:46 Lemme dig up what Harald wrote about that a couple days ago Oct 15 16:20:57 the only thing keeping me going is that if I *do* get this all working I'll be writing a killer how-to ;) Oct 15 16:21:28 ty Oct 15 16:21:51 This bug? http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=765 Oct 15 16:21:57 rwhitby how would you develop then? - using a stable, stand alone cross compile environment? - why not using the stage directory? Oct 15 16:22:20 kristian-m: using a binary SDK that is installed in your distro. Oct 15 16:22:22 ~logs Oct 15 16:22:23 extra, extra, read all about it, logs is apt/ibot/infobot/jbot/purl all log daily to http://ibot.rikers.org// where channelname is html encoded ie: %23debian | lines that start with a space are not shown | some channels have stats at http://ibot.rikers.org/stats/.html.gz Oct 15 16:22:37 rwhitby ah okay, i see Oct 15 16:22:41 CM yep Oct 15 16:23:07 but at the moment I'm having issues "seeing" the debug board Oct 15 16:23:08 OE apparently has facilities for building such a thing, and OpenMoko has plans (I believe) to do that. Oct 15 16:23:17 guri: I'll wait a while to see hos the latest uboot works for people before trying it Oct 15 16:23:28 I don't want to break my uboot Oct 15 16:23:35 CM mine is *very* broken Oct 15 16:23:48 uboot or uboot_env? Oct 15 16:23:51 unless you like looking at a picture of tux and some text Oct 15 16:23:53 CM env Oct 15 16:24:09 everytime I mention it someone says "ouchie" :( Oct 15 16:24:12 Mine too, the partition table is wrong Oct 15 16:24:15 :) Oct 15 16:24:20 bah! Oct 15 16:24:21 openmoko: 03thomas * r3178 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-dialer2/ (ChangeLog src/moko-dialer.c src/moko-history.c): Oct 15 16:24:21 openmoko: Based on patch by: Roman Moravcik Oct 15 16:24:21 openmoko: * src/moko-dialer.c: (on_keypad_dial_clicked):Show dialed history when Oct 15 16:24:21 openmoko: dialing empty number. Oct 15 16:24:21 openmoko: * src/moko-history.c: (on_filter_changed): Select first item in history Oct 15 16:24:22 openmoko: list after filter was changed. Oct 15 16:24:38 the env can be restored via debug board and devirginizer Oct 15 16:24:38 kristian-m: Have you read mickey's latest blog post? Oct 15 16:24:50 guri: http://ibot.rikers.org/%23openmoko/20071008.html.gz might be of interest, starting 13:06 Oct 15 16:25:03 CoreDump: Or just using cu and uboot if you don't have a debugboard Oct 15 16:25:10 abraxa_, thanks I'll do some reading Oct 15 16:25:25 But then you need the usbtty on.. Oct 15 16:25:29 CM. /dev/ttyACM0 turns up but cannot connect using cu/screen etc Oct 15 16:25:34 CM: if you still get the uboot prompt, yeah Oct 15 16:25:45 guri: I have the same thing exactly Oct 15 16:25:56 CM wanna fix mine too? :) Oct 15 16:26:11 guri: Could you try haralds uboot from today? Oct 15 16:26:21 I mean, you have a debugboard ;) Oct 15 16:26:25 Am going to read...... Oct 15 16:26:48 * CoreDump goes to charge the neos Oct 15 16:26:58 CM, true but having problems getting that to turn up in /dev/USB* .....plus I'm a complete noob (at this level) Oct 15 16:27:19 * guri needs to do some learning! Oct 15 16:27:26 guri: Me too, but I regret not buying a debugboard :) Oct 15 16:27:41 CM ah. well I'd just got my bonus so I splashed out Oct 15 16:28:01 CM well if you're ever in Bristol, UK once I get this working.... Oct 15 16:29:03 If that uboot version works, I should be able to cu in and rebuild the partitiontable without using a debug board Oct 15 16:29:13 * CM goes home from work, finally Oct 15 16:31:18 guri: Can you connect to /dev/ttyUSB0 or /dev/ttyUSB1 while being connected to the debug board and having the Neo booted up with AUX pressed? Oct 15 16:31:21 guri: FWIW, I personally found the wiki entry about the debug board and devirginizer pretty useful. It wasn't too difficult to recover a bricked Neo =) Oct 15 16:37:43 huh, the GPS chip is changing? Oct 15 16:37:52 w00t......debug board appears to be showing up Oct 15 16:38:36 hmmm......back in a bit with the next piece of exciting "i'm a noob and i'm out of my depth" after the next stage ;) Oct 15 16:38:45 openmoko: 03laforge * r3179 10/trunk/src/target/kernel/patches/ (gta01-backlight.patch gta01-vibrator.patch s3c2410-pwm.patch): (log message trimmed) Oct 15 16:38:45 openmoko: s3c2410_pwm: Oct 15 16:38:45 openmoko: * change structure name into one without _t suffix (it's not a typedef, thank god) Oct 15 16:38:45 openmoko: * don't allocate the pwm structure within s3c2410_pwm code, but rather embed it Oct 15 16:38:45 openmoko: into other structures Oct 15 16:38:49 openmoko: * rename s3c2410_pwm variables into just 'pwm' Oct 15 16:38:51 openmoko: gta01-vibrator: Oct 15 16:39:20 openmoko: 03thomas * r3180 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-today2/ (ChangeLog src/today-main.c): Oct 15 16:39:20 openmoko: * src/today-main.c: (today_dial_button_clicked_cb): Don't use -s Oct 15 16:39:20 openmoko: argument for the dialer shortcut button Oct 15 16:39:24 openmoko: 03laforge * r3181 10/trunk/src/target/kernel/patches/ (gta02-core.patch gta02-leds.patch series): Add GTA02 LED driver as well as required platform devices/resources Oct 15 16:44:14 oooh. pretty lights flash when i type things in screen ;0 Oct 15 16:44:41 :O... Oct 15 16:45:14 guri: I'd try dynpart/saveenv before devirginating Oct 15 16:55:35 hi ph5 Oct 15 16:55:56 hi woglinde Oct 15 16:57:40 Hi guys! Oct 15 16:58:06 Orzech_: Hiho! (and don't forget the girls ;) Oct 15 16:58:14 sorry :) Oct 15 16:58:22 ofcourse girls are more important ;) Oct 15 16:58:26 hi Oct 15 16:58:36 Today I decided, that topic of my Thesis will be video player for OpenMoko ;) Oct 15 16:58:49 Ahh, good luck with that Oct 15 16:59:03 We both need it ;) Oct 15 16:59:08 what new things are you thinking of, Orzech_? Oct 15 16:59:14 It will be total R&D for me, so I hope You will be able to help me sometimes with some problems :) Oct 15 16:59:19 Orzech_: well - ... Oct 15 16:59:22 Orzech_: I'm assuming you plan for GTA02? Oct 15 16:59:31 Orzech_: GTA02 has hardware video aqccel Oct 15 16:59:33 o ile poakóf ;) Oct 15 16:59:36 Most probably Oct 15 17:00:10 :D Oct 15 17:00:22 raczej Polaków :P Oct 15 17:00:28 SpeedEvil: What kind? IDCT & Co. or more in the sense of framebuffer acceleration? Oct 15 17:00:28 no. Oct 15 17:02:33 SpeedEvil, well I have to learn a lot of things before I'll start Oct 15 17:03:03 guaqua, What do You mean? :) Oct 15 17:05:32 Orzech_: shouldn't there be something original in a media player? as far as i know, there already is a media player for openmoko - how are you going to improve on that? Oct 15 17:05:55 guaqua: He'll write his own - we'll be competing ;) Oct 15 17:06:02 (in the good sense) Oct 15 17:06:04 ;) Oct 15 17:06:06 ;) Oct 15 17:09:01 guaqua, ASAP OpenMoko doesn't have nice one, however this was not my opinion. Oct 15 17:09:27 i was more interested in the fact that you are doing it as your thesis work Oct 15 17:09:32 abraxa_: both. Oct 15 17:09:39 i.e. it should have something new in it... Oct 15 17:09:46 abraxa_: 2d/3d accel, and video decoding hardware Oct 15 17:09:51 being a mobile, battery limited etc Oct 15 17:09:53 SpeedEvil: Nice :) Oct 15 17:10:20 SpeedEvil: So maybe we'll see 640x480x25 FPS after all Oct 15 17:10:31 I don't see much point. Oct 15 17:10:46 Over 320*240 or so - VCD class Oct 15 17:10:55 guaqua, I know, what does mobile application mean ;) Oct 15 17:11:09 10h+ video at VCD rates at 6G Oct 15 17:11:16 guaqua, I've worked a bit under Symbian and now under WM ;) Oct 15 17:11:24 20-30h if you use dmaller vids Oct 15 17:11:27 SpeedEvil: Well yes, perception-wise, however it might make the switch in X resolution unnecessary as the GPU then would handle it Oct 15 17:11:48 guaqua, However, I must tell, I'm not the experienced one. Oct 15 17:12:21 abraxa_, 640x480x25 would rock Oct 15 17:12:32 thats pretty much dvd quality Oct 15 17:13:05 abraxa_: you don't care about that though - it's automagical. Oct 15 17:13:46 And you can't see the differnce between 320*240 and 640*480 on a 2.8" screen in any but the most contrived conditions. Oct 15 17:13:52 SpeedEvil: My point is that it's a burden on the CPU to switch, so without that switch it would make the UI more responsive - other than that I agree with you completely :) Oct 15 17:14:09 Err - no, it's not a burden on the CPU to switch Oct 15 17:14:17 The LCD supports the mode natively. Oct 15 17:16:42 has anyone gotten it to switch online yet? Oct 15 17:16:51 i only got it to work on bootup, no switching Oct 15 17:17:03 I mean in principle. Oct 15 17:17:15 .. oh >_> Oct 15 17:17:18 It's a simple matter of programming to get it working at other times. Oct 15 17:17:18 SpeedEvil: You'd have to switch the X server's resolution, which would cause the running application(s) to rescale, etc Oct 15 17:17:27 abraxa_: no you wouldn't. Oct 15 17:17:30 does the CPU in the neo have power states like the ACPI C-states? Oct 15 17:17:36 Vegar: yes. Oct 15 17:17:46 See the Neo1973:gta01:power managment Oct 15 17:17:52 or similar page on the wiki. Oct 15 17:18:17 SpeedEvil: You mean one would leave the off-screen buffer at 640x480 and just use the upper left quarter as a windowed display that the display scales in hardware? Oct 15 17:18:29 That's one way Oct 15 17:18:43 Ah okay, I didn't know that was possible Oct 15 17:18:53 Hmmm. http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/OpenOCD#openocd.cfg does not seem to be helping.... got a bv4 Oct 15 17:18:54 SpeedEvil: ok, thanks Oct 15 17:18:59 The hardware supports - in GTA01 anyway - large virtual screens Oct 15 17:19:18 guri: did you brick it - or what are you trying to do? Oct 15 17:19:27 SpeedEvil: so that means that a piece software that keeps polling something frequently will use more power than something that's not polling as often? Oct 15 17:19:44 SpeedEvil, yup. i got a bad boot-env on device and am now trying to devirginate it Oct 15 17:19:49 very very very slowly Oct 15 17:20:19 plus Ubuntu is the sux with it's "ooh you have to sudo to do that....." bah! Oct 15 17:20:36 Vegar: eventually, yues. Oct 15 17:20:45 SpeedEvil: ok, was just wondering Oct 15 17:20:47 Vegar: you don['t want to poll, but use timers. Oct 15 17:20:52 yeah Oct 15 17:21:07 guri: sudo su - ? :) Oct 15 17:21:34 CM. yes.....but then I must colour my terminals so I remember which is root and which not ;) Oct 15 17:21:47 Oooohhh.. :P ;) Oct 15 17:22:06 and thats _such_ an effort :) Oct 15 17:22:12 CM or.....remember things ;) Oct 15 17:22:42 I usually have a root terminal in the upper right corner, and only there Oct 15 17:22:52 still, at least now the laptop can actually see the blasted thing in /dev/tty* :) Oct 15 17:23:22 and the lights flash on it when I connect with screen.....though no prompt....this is normal I assume? Oct 15 17:24:04 alphaone: the qvga panel icon scaling problem is a bug in matchbox-panel, for sure. it has a hardcoded standard panel size of 32px and scales loaded images to fit that panel before the gtk widgets are realized, even if the matchbox theme says otherwise. Oct 15 17:28:27 Info: openocd.c:86 main(): Open On-Chip Debugger (2007-03-30 12:00 CEST) Oct 15 17:28:27 Info: configuration.c:50 configuration_output_handler(): Command ft2232_layout not found Oct 15 17:28:27 Info: configuration.c:50 configuration_output_handler(): Command ft2232_vid_pid not found Oct 15 17:28:27 Error: jtag.c:1376 jtag_init(): No valid jtag interface found (ft2232) Oct 15 17:28:27 Error: jtag.c:1377 jtag_init(): compiled-in jtag interfaces: Oct 15 17:28:34 agh! Oct 15 17:29:40 Hello! Is OpenMoko on card or in embedded memory of Neo? Oct 15 17:29:56 embedded, although you can boot it from mmc i believe Oct 15 17:33:02 J-23: its up to you ;) Oct 15 17:33:59 Somebody has downloaded Windows binaries of QEMU OpenMoko? Oct 15 17:34:05 J-23: only the bootloader musst be on the internal memory Oct 15 17:34:30 J-23, http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/U-boot Oct 15 17:34:45 though I can't talk, mine wont even boot right now ;) Oct 15 17:35:19 guri: Not even with the Factory Reset option? Oct 15 17:35:25 ah thanks guri. Nice pictures on the site ^^ Oct 15 17:35:53 guri: I can't boot mine by selecting Boot, but the Factory Reset option doesn't give any Magic number error and the phone works fine Oct 15 17:36:20 CM. that's what killed it .... http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=765 Oct 15 17:37:03 Oh, that sucks :-/ Oct 15 17:37:19 CM. yup. now I'm wrangling with the debug board :( Oct 15 17:38:07 * J-23 looks for Taiwan Tor servers Oct 15 17:38:16 on the plus side...I have become the UK's foremost expert on Serial/USB on Ubuntu and learned a *hell* of a lot about low-level linux Oct 15 17:38:24 Taiwanian* Oct 15 17:38:33 J-23, Taiwanese Oct 15 17:38:37 Thanks ;) Oct 15 17:39:50 and I work in Firmware OTA and Device Management ;) Oct 15 17:41:11 guri: I heard the debug board connector is somewhat tricky to connect, so you might wanna check that Oct 15 17:41:50 abraxa_, nah, it's good right now (3rd attempt)...just got bad compilation of openOCD/devirgin.....need to eat. will look in a bit Oct 15 17:41:57 Ohh okay Oct 15 17:41:58 Enjoy! Oct 15 17:42:31 CM. re "I can't boot mine by selecting Boot, [snip] and the phone works fine <---- how so? Oct 15 17:43:08 guri: What do you mean how so? Oct 15 17:43:16 abraxa_, it's showing up in /dev but openocd is complaining about ft2232 and jtag now....still little steps? Oct 15 17:43:27 I mean that I can flash new kernels and rootfs' without problems, but the phone does not boot normally Oct 15 17:43:49 CM. aaaaah! gotcha, sorry Oct 15 17:44:02 The only way to get it up and running is selecting Factory reset in the menu you getn when holding in AUX on poweron Oct 15 17:44:06 guri: Crossing my fingers for you, mate - but you should eat ;) Oct 15 17:44:15 * CM just finished dinner Oct 15 17:45:00 abraxa_, yup. thanks......and then perhaps some beer, always helps with the "right, let's just go all out then shall we" approach Oct 15 17:46:05 * guri eats Oct 15 18:11:46 heh, my homebrewn image (of 2 days old) states it is from August :) Oct 15 18:23:23 time travel! Oct 15 18:25:14 nah :) matches reports from other ppl too well (a *working* gsm on straightforward booting) Oct 15 18:26:59 after booting i see error "dialer: error setting antenna power", how to solve this? Oct 15 18:27:21 ok let's be brave and try to convert my own package building stuff to a .bb file. Oct 15 18:30:54 anyone near berlin with a debug board? Oct 15 18:31:14 you've looked at the 'local groups'page on the wiki? Oct 15 18:32:06 (and the mailing lists? there's an occasional request, a recent one was soemwhere in Germany...) Oct 15 18:33:19 Kero: iirc it was somewhere far Oct 15 18:33:38 SpeedEvil: i've been trying to track down roh unsuccessfully for the past little bit... Oct 15 18:33:42 don't know kris... Oct 15 18:33:51 ww: yes, but a travelling board Oct 15 18:34:06 Hello MichaelShiloh, is there any decision made onto which email client to use? Oct 15 18:34:26 ww: he said in another place he may be away till tomorrwo. Oct 15 18:34:29 anyone has any idea why my 'curl-native_7.16.4.bb' keeps failing on me? (using MokoMakefile) been up and down the wiki without any luck Oct 15 18:34:47 mhh imcosys now sells maps for their gpslinux phone Oct 15 18:35:03 fatal if you could provide the error-msg perhabs Oct 15 18:35:11 woglinde: working on it Oct 15 18:35:12 i wonder if the mapping app could be ported Oct 15 18:35:20 http://c34958d30d841f29.paste.se/ Oct 15 18:35:41 hi all Oct 15 18:35:51 SpeedEvil: thanks, i see... Oct 15 18:36:30 any news? Oct 15 18:37:30 I need to get a deb of libftdi......for Ubuntu Oct 15 18:37:48 sorry....from the Wiki "libftdi >= 0.8" Oct 15 18:38:01 but my modprobe seems ok Oct 15 18:42:25 googling the imcosys phone gives this one: http://url.ie/653 ( http://www.intomobile.com/2007/03/23/longcheer-g300-gps-phone-coming-to-china-in-april.html ) Oct 15 18:42:40 the hardware spec for which looks superficially rather similar to the neo Oct 15 18:43:57 not running linux though. Oct 15 18:44:49 http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.comp.handhelds.openmoko.neo1973/13/focus=27 .....i think i have the same issue Oct 15 18:45:06 ish Oct 15 18:46:45 cjb_ie: http://www.imcosys.com/html/smartphone1.html tells "linux embedded" Oct 15 18:47:34 gamin: yes, that's the imcosys one. the one i linked is another. Oct 15 18:48:50 strange that imcosys is not more community friendly Oct 15 18:49:15 hm imcosys is there since serval years Oct 15 18:49:42 * Marcel_M uses an imcosys smartphone Oct 15 18:49:45 usbpath_native buggered ? Oct 15 18:49:56 ist quite useless Oct 15 18:50:08 it's not opensource wither Oct 15 18:50:13 either Oct 15 18:50:16 yes Oct 15 18:50:56 no apps available (exept javaapps) Oct 15 18:51:32 ScaredyCat, I think I can see the bootloader when connected up with debug board now. sudo lsusb -v -d 0x1457: Oct 15 18:52:08 provides loads of output including: iProduct 2 Neo1973 Bootloader U-Boot 1.3.0-rc11.2.0+git20070917+svnr2943 Oct 15 18:53:45 would this mean I can use screen/cu to get to it on /dev/ttyUSB as opposed to ACM0 now? Oct 15 18:54:11 sdk for imcosys sm1 costs 1000 euro Oct 15 18:54:51 guri: you can try it, dmesg report the tty ? Oct 15 18:55:34 Sorry about asking more dumb questions... what's the recommended way to flash the neo. I've built the example Hello, World app, and so I suspect I have an image to flash. Is there something like "make flash-kernel"? Oct 15 18:56:58 xyzzy_bill look at the wiki, you want tu use dfu-util Oct 15 18:59:06 ScaredyCat, I now have 2 devices ftdi_sio 1-1.1:1.1: and ftdi_sio 1-1.1:1.0: Oct 15 18:59:27 imcosys may be the single most stupid company selling phones Oct 15 18:59:32 hm... Oct 15 19:00:02 i called them up once (they are literally 20min from here), inquiring about phones. haven't experienced worse unfriendliness in years Oct 15 19:05:53 you don't generally buy direct from mfg Oct 15 19:07:57 fic/openmoko is an exception ... and it was pretty bad in the beginning Oct 15 19:09:11 buz: yes very unfriendy especially on phone Oct 15 19:09:35 anrp: you couldnt buy it anywhere else Oct 15 19:10:14 i think imcosys doesnt understand what they could be selling Oct 15 19:10:16 not at all Oct 15 19:10:29 mm well i don't know the specifics of that company Oct 15 19:10:36 just saying in general about manufacturers Oct 15 19:11:23 most will at least be friendly enough to refer to you to a retail source Oct 15 19:11:24 i bought a "testsample" on the cebit07 for my company Oct 15 19:11:39 well except e28 who dont respond to email at all Oct 15 19:11:55 not bad, compiling from bitbake recipe. Oct 15 19:12:14 Now I want to pass extra options to ./configure. docs are a bit sparse, tho :) Oct 15 19:12:22 but i orderd one on the cebit06 ;) Oct 15 19:13:01 which someone forgot about? Oct 15 19:13:17 marcel_m and then suite because the gpl-violation? Oct 15 19:13:22 of Oct 15 19:14:28 i wrote them to send me the sources which are under gpl but ... noa answer Oct 15 19:16:31 on the cebit they told me that they got no cd's whitch are normally with the phone Oct 15 19:16:55 i should drop them an email ....... Oct 15 19:17:31 you should suite them Oct 15 19:18:07 * Marcel_M will send more mails Oct 15 19:23:21 woglinde, not to be pedantic, but its sue Oct 15 19:23:43 sew :P Oct 15 19:23:48 and by "not to be pedantic", you mean, "to be pedantic" :-p Oct 15 19:23:53 suiting them would be to accomadate them, which we don't want to do Oct 15 19:23:54 (and yes, i know that's wrong, but it makes for a very funny mistake) Oct 15 19:24:04 enjjahova ah thanks Oct 15 19:24:08 you are right Oct 15 19:24:40 hehe, i know its dangerous to correct grammar on the internets ^^ Oct 15 19:25:39 no Oct 15 19:25:41 not on me Oct 15 19:25:57 btw somebody want to buy a linux smartphone ;) Oct 15 19:26:28 lol Oct 15 19:26:34 hehe Oct 15 19:40:01 * * OM Bug 933 has been created by joseph(AT)pfeifferfamily.net Oct 15 19:40:01 * * event import Oct 15 19:40:02 * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=933 Oct 15 19:54:07 has anyone tried a compile recently ? Oct 15 19:54:37 yes Oct 15 19:55:07 ..and..? Oct 15 19:55:29 the images are at a new dir Oct 15 19:55:50 in neo1973 Oct 15 19:55:51 mm.. no issues with usbpath native then ? Oct 15 19:55:57 no Oct 15 19:56:19 everythin runs just fine Oct 15 19:56:48 * Marcel_M starts a new build Oct 15 19:58:45 do you have usbpath then ? Oct 15 19:58:51 is your sources Oct 15 20:01:15 NOTE: build 200710152159: completed Oct 15 20:01:23 ill take a look Oct 15 20:01:31 no, I'm asking about usbpath Oct 15 20:02:12 looks like another cock up :/ Oct 15 20:02:23 usbpath_svn.openmoko.org_.trunk.src.host_3108_.tar.gz Oct 15 20:02:52 this one ? Oct 15 20:03:35 yes Oct 15 20:03:39 http://www.pastebin.ca/737867 Oct 15 20:03:55 can you try a bitbake -crebuild on it Oct 15 20:04:53 seems that the path2devnum.c in openmoko svn is crap Oct 15 20:05:30 header file dodgyness? Oct 15 20:06:04 * Marcel_M using makefile ill try make rebuild-package-usbpath Oct 15 20:07:46 builds fine ->http://celpaste.morb-design.com/pastebin.php?show=m109e8b5 Oct 15 20:08:19 can you look at your /usr/include/linux/usbdevice_fs.h Oct 15 20:08:59 line 49 ish - that struct Oct 15 20:10:54 my usbdevice_fs.h ->http://celpaste.morb-design.com/pastebin.php?show=m29c543f6 Oct 15 20:12:31 looks identical Oct 15 20:17:32 hmm Oct 15 20:22:19 Hey, guys. Anyone get their neo working with AT&T? I've got one of the SIMs that in theory are compatible (4022 O) Oct 15 20:24:50 xyzzy_bill: this should be on the wiki, i would think -- but in addition to the sim problem is the fact that the neo doesn't work on the 850MHz band (which is in heavy use by AT&T). Oct 15 20:25:03 So you might have a working sim, but not be in a cell that you can use. Oct 15 20:25:53 oops, i thought the neo was quad band Oct 15 20:26:13 the modem is quad band on paper, yes :) Oct 15 20:32:24 Henryk: heh, the modem also *works* on paper. Oct 15 20:32:30 in real life, the story is a little different. Oct 15 20:32:32 Thanks, TI. Oct 15 20:37:17 got it Oct 15 20:38:10 apparently something isn't including linux/compiler.h :/ Oct 15 20:40:05 !blame random person Oct 15 20:40:22 ~blame random-person Oct 15 20:40:23 * apt blames random-person (and Canada) for all the evil in the world Oct 15 20:41:08 ~blame mwester form making it ~ and not ! Oct 15 20:41:09 * apt blames mwester form making it ~ and not ! (and Canada) for all the evil in the world Oct 15 20:41:31 :P Oct 15 20:41:36 ~koen Oct 15 20:41:37 extra, extra, read all about it, koen is our regular image monkey, or an idiot this week Oct 15 20:41:53 ~emulate crofton Oct 15 20:41:54 * apt don't be so elitist! Oct 15 20:42:02 ~stfu Oct 15 20:42:03 :( Oct 15 20:42:05 :) Oct 15 20:42:06 I wonder how many of those there is Oct 15 20:42:06 lol Oct 15 20:42:07 Hehe Oct 15 20:42:16 ~botsnack Oct 15 20:42:16 thanks, abraxa_ Oct 15 20:42:19 ~semi-intelligent Oct 15 20:42:23 yay! Oct 15 20:42:24 aww Oct 15 20:42:38 apt cheese is good Oct 15 20:42:39 * apt hands is good a tray of sliced sharp cheddar and pineapple Oct 15 20:42:44 :) Oct 15 20:43:00 ~cheese ScaredyCat Oct 15 20:43:01 * apt hands ScaredyCat a tray of sliced sharp cheddar and pineapple Oct 15 20:43:05 :) Oct 15 20:43:16 stupid bot Oct 15 20:43:27 I've never had pinapple with cheese.. Pears or grapes, but not that Oct 15 20:43:57 Grapes and cheese... mmh... Oct 15 20:44:36 pineapple + cheese generally served in the shapre of a hedgehog, using those wooden toothpics Oct 15 20:46:29 toast hawaii Oct 15 20:48:43 * ScaredyCat drinks a shot for Hawaii Oct 15 20:49:56 hawaii <3 Oct 15 20:50:30 hawaii is less than three? Oct 15 20:51:01 you can put it that way, or just turn your head 90 degrees clockwise :) Oct 15 20:51:19 hawaii is a big arse? Oct 15 20:51:27 ooh Oct 15 20:51:43 a truly culture-specific smiley Oct 15 20:51:49 it's a heart <3 Oct 15 20:52:10 Google talk flips it to a heart Oct 15 20:57:07 ScaredyCat: I wanna see a butt that ends in a point... ;) Oct 15 20:57:17 hello Oct 15 20:57:28 pointy butts! Oct 15 20:57:34 conebutts Oct 15 21:27:11 * mstevens has a go with the latest images Oct 15 21:30:20 I have a request for comments - which do you think is/looks better? Oct 15 21:30:27 http://scap.linuxtogo.org/files/60ae49591f783c8af857e496f2809c3e.png or http://scap.linuxtogo.org/files/37946ff00398eee25523b18ede73c772.png ? Oct 15 21:32:10 * ScaredyCat slaps whoever changed the build directory Oct 15 21:32:11 aren't they the same? Oct 15 21:32:33 tbh, I'm not fond of either, they seem too busy. Oct 15 21:32:55 Ghiottone: load em in different windows and flick back and forth Oct 15 21:33:26 why doesn't the one with the song title have clear place for the song title? Oct 15 21:33:47 Stephmw: Busy? How so? Oct 15 21:34:05 guaqua: "clear place"? Oct 15 21:34:30 Stephmw, yeah I had noticed the slight difference Oct 15 21:34:38 I would choose the second one Oct 15 21:35:13 like it belongs somewhere Oct 15 21:35:24 now it looks like it's left there in the empty space Oct 15 21:36:48 abraxa_: the text is all scrunched at the top-right Oct 15 21:36:58 hmm, I removed the battery with the USB still attached and it made a very strange noise Oct 15 21:37:39 It does that. Oct 15 21:37:40 that's a warning sound Oct 15 21:37:43 mstevens: not recommended Oct 15 21:37:45 basically, "don't do that" Oct 15 21:37:57 anrp: be thankful no damage Oct 15 21:38:04 guaqua: Yeah, I see what you mean. I'm not exactly sure if that needs to be addressed, though - it does provide good contrast after all Oct 15 21:38:26 Stephmw: Basically you're saying the fonts are too small? Oct 15 21:38:56 abraxa_: I'm saying there's too much info going in there. Oct 15 21:39:10 abraxa_: and without headings, it makes you guess which bit is what Oct 15 21:39:16 Writchie: is it actually going to break anything Oct 15 21:39:31 Stephmw: Think omitting the album name is enough to remedy that? Oct 15 21:39:43 mstevens: it might, so don;t do it. Oct 15 21:39:54 mstevens: other's have reported more than just bad sounds Oct 15 21:40:01 it's not designed to work like that Oct 15 21:40:02 abraxa_: I'm thinking doing it more the ipod way might work. Have the detailed info on a separate 'page' you can toggle to Oct 15 21:40:09 no one has reported destruction -- yet Oct 15 21:40:20 * mstevens will avoid doing it again Oct 15 21:40:31 abraxa_: think it through - what info do you need immediately when playing a tune? Oct 15 21:40:34 GTA02 will supposedly be able to run with battery removed Oct 15 21:40:49 abraxa_: contrast yes, but it looks unfinished - that's what i mean Oct 15 21:41:11 Stephmw: I'd like to avoid adding such a page if possible unless it would integrate with the playlist (which it doesn't - at least at the moment) Oct 15 21:41:15 it's not so much as is it clear, but is it finished or not. i like the ui however :) Oct 15 21:41:57 abraxa_: how about the album artwork being a background instead of taking layout space? Oct 15 21:42:09 Stephmw: no Oct 15 21:42:17 Stephmw: I intend to use the album space for video playback, too Oct 15 21:42:34 * Stephmw squints at the postage-size video Oct 15 21:42:38 (after all, it'll handle both types) Oct 15 21:42:53 Well, that's what full-screen is for Oct 15 21:43:06 * Stephmw shrugs Oct 15 21:43:16 I like my device UIs simple ;) Oct 15 21:43:58 abraxa_: background, I've worked on low-middle end mobile phones Oct 15 21:44:10 abraxa_: and even now they're starting to cram in too much rubbish Oct 15 21:44:57 Stephmw: I appreciate everyone's input. I just need to find a way to make ends meet - after all, the Neo has quite the sophisticated competitor without anywhere near as much resources to put into the product Oct 15 21:45:28 abraxa_: this'll be a commercial offering? Oct 15 21:45:39 Hmm? Oct 15 21:45:47 "making ends meet" Oct 15 21:46:26 ...as in "finding a way to make the UI simple, yet sophisticated and stylish" Oct 15 21:47:01 ok, just checking :) Oct 15 21:47:08 hehe Oct 15 21:48:01 abraxa_: soluton -- make the info displayed configurable Oct 15 21:48:32 I like the second screenshot but have no use for album art Oct 15 21:49:05 Hmmm Oct 15 21:49:06 but I'd also like the artist above the album name Oct 15 21:49:44 you could have a toggle for the album art and then make the two fields next to configurable via printfesque specifiers (ala xmms) Oct 15 21:49:56 grrrr, midori and WebKit aren't friends. WebKitGtkFrame isn't getting defined. Oct 15 21:49:57 likewise with the main body of text Oct 15 21:50:18 Yeah, I could... my worries are of a different kind: where and how to display a video preview then Oct 15 21:50:56 does music and video really have to be treated the same way? Oct 15 21:51:02 the video won't have as much metadata Oct 15 21:51:30 Stephmw: It'll have "author" and "title" at least Oct 15 21:51:54 abraxa_: I dunno. Most video clips I come across just have a filename Oct 15 21:52:31 Stephmw: Ah, okay... I was more thinking of music videos and movies Oct 15 21:52:55 abraxa_: hopefully not over GPRS? :D Oct 15 21:52:57 Either way. Oct 15 21:53:04 What would it change in your opinion? Oct 15 21:53:13 lol no Oct 15 21:53:15 ;) Oct 15 21:53:19 From SD Oct 15 21:53:35 for a start, with video, overlaying the title is acceptable IMO, as they rarely have embedded text Oct 15 21:53:44 esp in the preview Oct 15 21:54:00 album cover, I concede wouldn't come out as well Oct 15 21:54:44 Actually, I don't know if overlaying text on a video window is even possible =x Oct 15 21:54:58 * abraxa_ has to look into that Oct 15 21:55:09 ;) Oct 15 21:55:26 what's playing the video? mplayer? Oct 15 21:55:33 gstreamer + libs Oct 15 21:55:48 hmmm, gstreamer must have facilities for subtitles Oct 15 21:56:23 as for the other layout stuff - I'd say playing with it graphically first might work better than programmatically Oct 15 21:56:37 IANAUXD Oct 15 21:56:57 I'm not a user experience designer... but I've worked with a few Oct 15 22:01:27 Hmm, I think I know what I'll do - thanks, Stephmw, guaqua and u_l-lap for your input! :) Oct 15 22:01:54 nite Oct 15 22:01:58 see ya woglinde Oct 15 22:02:32 abraxa_: np - so, will we just get a 80x25 console with ascii-art cover + some text? Oct 15 22:02:49 still no gsmd love :( Oct 15 22:03:05 Stephmw: I may be sadistic but I'm not *that* mean ;) Oct 15 22:03:28 abraxa_: oh. so 160x25 then? Oct 15 22:03:34 .. rotated Oct 15 22:05:12 Stephmw: My idea is as follows: all three labels will be configurable ? la XMMS and the cover art can be hidden. If a video is playing the cover art placeholder will be used for the preview, while label #3 (the one below the top bar) will hold the title - I think it's a good compromise Oct 15 22:06:17 abraxa_: it sounds good - and there's always v0.0.2 around the corner for any changes :) Oct 15 22:06:38 Stephmw: Actually, SVN makes it 0.1.0 already ;) Oct 15 22:08:06 details :D Oct 15 22:45:46 anyone have a second to help with an interface/rootfs question? Oct 15 22:50:44 bumkus: It's usually best to just ask - if someone can answer, he/she will ;) Oct 15 22:53:55 I'm trying to get my OpenMoko phone upgraded to a newer rootfs, and it stops responding while loading the graphic interface Oct 15 22:53:59 but i can still ssh into it Oct 15 22:54:25 bumkus: Does the orange bar go almost go to the end and is stuck there? Oct 15 22:54:31 yes Oct 15 22:56:52 bumkus: You might be experiencing http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=788 Oct 15 22:58:32 need to remove the "console=ttySAC0,115200" - am I reading that right? Oct 15 22:59:24 bumkus: That's one way, yep - assuming you don't need that port for the debug board Oct 15 22:59:50 i am barely linux competent to get the fs flashed. no debugging for me. Oct 15 23:00:09 thanks for your help! Oct 15 23:00:14 Anytime Oct 15 23:09:34 is there a uBoot image that already has the console fix in it? Oct 15 23:10:45 Nope, as that would interfere with debug board usage Oct 15 23:12:02 cu doesn't like connecting to the usb console - i keep getting port in use Oct 15 23:20:20 * CoreDump flashes Neo after a loooong time again Oct 15 23:25:33 qtopia sure looks nice Oct 15 23:34:39 on the wiki I read somewhere that building openmoko takes 2 hours - is that on a Cray? ;-( Oct 15 23:35:23 after 3 hours am at task 488 of 4847... Oct 15 23:36:06 2 hours on a "gibson" Oct 15 23:36:31 what's a gibson?? Oct 15 23:36:37 it takes about 6 - 8 hours. or about 24 hours in a vmware virtual machine Oct 15 23:36:48 gamin: from the movie "hackers" Oct 15 23:36:57 gamin: not real Oct 15 23:37:27 oh. obvious lack of education :) Oct 15 23:37:54 * |R always wanted to have a bison :P Oct 15 23:37:55 anjelina jolie as a teenager Oct 15 23:38:01 <|R> err gibson Oct 15 23:38:17 i'd rather have an angelina Oct 15 23:38:27 glibc took forever - all the locales... Oct 15 23:38:29 <|R> Does it have wifi? Oct 15 23:38:29 <|R> haha Oct 16 00:15:28 ljp: I have to say, your qtopia-image is impressive. I'm looking forward to the next round of QT vs X wars ; Oct 16 00:15:33 ;) Oct 16 00:26:52 CoreDump: thanks Oct 16 00:39:18 hmm... marble's ui is not really suited for the neo, and it is way too slow to be useful, but it does run :) http://scap.linuxtogo.org/files/1239b3f4e2f8e1a396c8969a88ac74f2.png and http://scap.linuxtogo.org/files/aa10066abfcb9fdf9fb657ae0e08c0a6.png :) Oct 16 00:57:47 CoreDump: Good to see you back, but I do feel the need to confiscate your neo's due to "willful abandonment" :p :) Oct 16 00:57:59 ;) Oct 16 00:58:39 Kexec is working, and with the SD card we really need a good way to boot alternate kernels and rootfs's Oct 16 00:59:58 I'm wondering if you know of any software that might be able to do such a thing ;) Oct 16 01:01:29 is that not what lilo does? Oct 16 01:01:51 a newbs answer Oct 16 01:04:27 im waiting till u guys fix this s tuff :) Oct 16 01:16:57 mwester: uboot should be able to do so OOTB Oct 16 01:26:49 CoreDump: Theoretically, it *should*. Oct 16 01:28:30 I'm pretty certain that you can do that by manipulating the u-boot env Oct 16 01:30:20 Yep, you can change command line args to select the rootfs, and it is supposed to be able to load a kernel from the sd card, if the sd card is ext3, and if it works (reports are that recent version of uboot don't do this. Oct 16 01:31:08 Overall, an expert can make uboot do what they wish, but the average joe who just wants to select from a menu to boot qtopia, or boot openmoko version x or openmoko version y -- they're out of luck. Oct 16 01:31:46 do what I do...install qtopia on one Neo, and OM on the other =D Oct 16 01:31:54 but you are of course right Oct 16 01:32:19 well, I got a prepaid t-mobile sim, have it in, I tried the qtopia image, still no love but I could have done something wrong so I'm going back to OM (I got the t-mobile acct/sim b/c my at&t wouldn't work, was informed it was due to the 850 band) Oct 16 01:32:28 Of course, one can counter that by observing that openmoko and qtopia shouldn't require different rootfs's, but it's hard enough to get openmoko to work at all, much less integrate it with qtopia! :o Oct 16 01:32:50 mwester: indeed Oct 16 01:33:24 Quinn_Storm: I was able to make a call the qtopia (even tho the side-tone is too loud). Can't say the same for OM =( Oct 16 01:33:25 Quinn_Storm: prepaid t-mobile sim works fine for me on the original qtopia image -- that one was the only way I've ever actually gotten an SMS message to arrive. Oct 16 01:33:54 qtopia, left sitting for 10+ minutes, never found a network (using the most recent qtopia image) Oct 16 01:34:02 should I use the older image? Oct 16 01:34:23 http://buildhost.automated.it/OM2007.2/?M=D <- I used that one Oct 16 01:34:38 no idea if that's the same as mine Oct 16 01:34:53 err there's lots of images there Oct 16 01:35:06 I don't know, but the europe crowd has some individuals who have been tracking the qtopia developments, they would know better (they're asleep right now, of course) Oct 16 01:35:31 hmm, can I add this particular source to the mac downloader app? Oct 16 01:36:20 the 2007.2 is missing from it Oct 16 01:36:31 so I'm working with rather old images I thin Oct 16 01:37:28 is the latest kernel & stuff a good idea too? or is the latest rootfs usually enough? (I am very very new to this device) Oct 16 01:39:06 * monkeyiq is away: Working on http://witme.sourceforge.net/libferris.web/ Oct 16 01:39:44 argh, google wifi sucks Oct 16 01:44:52 well I'm pushing the latest qtopia img from that site Oct 16 01:44:52 I wish the flash was faster Oct 16 01:54:52 I'm beginning to wonder if I should have bought a cheap handset to make sure my prepaid account works Oct 16 01:55:14 this qtopia image is doing the same nothing Oct 16 01:55:35 it just sits forever at a screen with "no network", three icon buttons that do nothing, and a softkey saying "unlock" that also does nothing Oct 16 01:55:50 if you wanted a phone to use as your normal phone you indeed should never even considered buying a GTA01... Oct 16 01:55:53 Quinn_Storm: try holding aux Oct 16 01:56:02 Mek: well of course, that's not what I meant Oct 16 01:56:29 I have an iPhone for my normal phone Oct 16 01:56:29 cesarb: yeah aux can get me to the icon screen Oct 16 01:56:31 Quinn_Storm: if you are lucky you will manage to find after going back and forth the qtopia main menu (a screen full of colorful guess-what-this-means icons) Oct 16 01:56:46 yeah I'm there Oct 16 01:57:13 Quinn_Storm: there you can do several things (like changing the screen background image) ;-) Oct 16 01:57:22 lol Oct 16 01:57:37 how do I...y'know...use it like a phone? the qtopia image was supposed to work last I heard Oct 16 01:57:47 * cesarb has changed the screen background image. It's where the neo shines, the screen image is great Oct 16 01:57:59 yeah I love the 280 dpi screen Oct 16 01:58:28 snapshots are not a finished release, so breakage is bound to happen Oct 16 01:58:30 Quinn_Storm: the first qtopia snapshot did work fine as a phone after you hand-loaded the alsa state for the sound, from what I've heard Oct 16 01:58:41 Quinn_Storm: the current one I don't know whether it works Oct 16 01:58:55 yeah, I would be happy to hand-load the alsa state if that was all that was wrong Oct 16 01:59:00 Quinn_Storm: ljp is the one who created the qtopia snapshots, so he knows better than me ;-) Oct 16 01:59:01 I just don't even know where to begin Oct 16 01:59:17 I got it to a dialer screen that just says "please wait" Oct 16 01:59:48 try the tech preview release Oct 16 01:59:51 ljp: do...any of them work? I really want to know that I didn't waste my money on the t-mobile sim and can actually do some work on...something for this nice little device Oct 16 02:00:02 I did Oct 16 02:00:08 that was the first release I tried Oct 16 02:00:13 some sims seem to have problems Oct 16 02:00:15 basically the same issues Oct 16 02:00:21 I've tried two now, my at&t and this new t-mo Oct 16 02:00:44 i have one that works fine, one that I got working yesterday, and one that doesn't work Oct 16 02:01:22 the qtopia images don't have minicom, right? I could always test that stuff by hand... Oct 16 02:01:43 i suppose you could install minicom Oct 16 02:01:54 they do have phonebounce Oct 16 02:02:09 phonebounce? Oct 16 02:02:40 (I'm a total noob to the actual apps on the moko/qtopia-moko, etc.) Oct 16 02:04:43 its a way to access the neo modem from ssh/telnet Oct 16 02:05:14 ah ok...found the app Oct 16 02:05:25 now I just need to remember the devnode for the modem Oct 16 02:09:01 weird, killing qpe caused it to restart and work Oct 16 02:09:08 now it shows t-mobile and a good signal Oct 16 02:10:49 anyway, bbl, leaving the restaurant Oct 16 02:32:08 hello folks :) Oct 16 02:32:35 Hello Everybody Oct 16 02:33:26 Does the Antenna built into Neo 1973 good? Oct 16 02:35:29 l8r :) Oct 16 02:36:09 Can anybody suggest a decent recent, kernel, rootfs combo? Oct 16 02:38:20 I asked about the Antenna quality because, the phone detects tower availability in office, but not home, but our home also near by the tower station Oct 16 02:40:10 Anybody there? Oct 16 02:41:28 Does the Antenna built into Neo 1973 good? Oct 16 02:41:44 I asked about the Antenna quality because, the phone detects tower availability in office, but not home, but our home also near by the tower station Oct 16 02:42:25 raddy: neo works (on gsm 1900) about the same as many other phones - not as good as the best radios Oct 16 02:50:37 Writchie : hey, don't joke, Antenna also used to connect to GSM based towers Oct 16 02:52:37 raddy: no joke - i'm talking about gsm radio and antenna Oct 16 02:53:10 neo does not currently work at gsm 850 so depending where you are the tower you see may not be available Oct 16 02:53:22 Writchie: ohh Oct 16 02:54:19 Writchie: doesn't Neo 1973 doesn't yet have good tri-band support Oct 16 02:55:02 there is a problem with gsm850 which may be turned off in firmware for some reason, 900,1800,1900 work fine Oct 16 02:55:25 so it triband "by european definition of triband" Oct 16 02:55:44 Writchie : also, My home and office are in same band, so, if it works ok in office, then it should in home too Oct 16 02:55:45 north american definition of triband is 850,1800,1900 Oct 16 02:55:48 which is rather unfortunate for the North American folks... Oct 16 02:56:31 raddy: it should work more or less the same at same distance from tower (assuming same network). Oct 16 02:57:16 everyones definition of quadband is the same (at least for now) 850,900,1800,1900 Oct 16 02:57:23 Writchie : In Office Too, it some time works, and some time not, is it a software issue or hardware issue, i used more mature qtopia platform, still call stability is not there Oct 16 02:57:57 raddy: what country? Oct 16 02:58:14 Writchie: Asia, India Oct 16 02:59:12 raddy: which city /carrier **** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Oct 16 02:59:57 2007