**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Oct 19 02:59:58 2007 Oct 19 04:51:04 hrm Oct 19 04:51:32 * spikebike wonders how the gta02v3 schedule is going Oct 19 04:54:08 * CM hasn't heard anything about it Oct 19 05:06:37 very busy channel Oct 19 05:11:12 spikebike well. gta02v3 will never be sold, so that doesnt really matter ;) Oct 19 05:24:00 roh oh? really? gta02v4? Oct 19 05:24:07 when? Oct 19 05:24:38 spikebike i dunno. Oct 19 05:24:48 well.. we all don't know yet. Oct 19 05:25:57 spikebike when we have a revision where all bugs are factored out and the tests proove that to us developers. Oct 19 05:27:42 ah, ok Oct 19 05:27:58 I just checked the wiki page and was going from that Oct 19 05:28:17 so a reasonable window for an openmoko for sale for normal folks would be? Oct 19 05:29:09 well i do not know. when its done. Oct 19 05:29:32 there are just too many factors of uncertainty Oct 19 05:29:56 sure Oct 19 05:30:07 I understand the "when it's ready" kind of statement Oct 19 05:30:16 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GTA02 just led me to believe otherwise Oct 19 05:30:42 yay for atmel/ublox gps Oct 19 05:30:47 i like those Oct 19 05:31:14 heh.. its a wiki.. Oct 19 05:32:00 roh: Will you update that timeline? Oct 19 05:32:07 CM with what? Oct 19 05:32:13 v4? Oct 19 05:32:16 there is no timeline we released. Oct 19 05:32:25 Hehe, I know Oct 19 05:32:34 wow its almost impossible to find somewhere that sells SMD500's Oct 19 05:32:35 But at least there's a fourth revision Oct 19 05:33:09 and that the schedule has changed Oct 19 05:33:12 CM: there will be. there is not yet. Oct 19 05:33:18 even just milestones Oct 19 05:33:26 Ok Oct 19 05:33:34 kernel must be stable (done or to be done) Oct 19 05:33:39 gprs Oct 19 05:33:41 spikebike there is no schedule. there is a order of things happening, but the dates are total senseless Oct 19 05:33:43 stable voice calls Oct 19 05:34:06 a list of 10 things necessary before release or something Oct 19 05:34:18 basically just about anything to show progress irregardless of actual dates Oct 19 05:35:22 spikebike one thing is hw. software is the other (which i not spoke of yet, intentionally) Oct 19 05:36:50 so 10 things each ;-) Oct 19 05:36:54 * CM waits for mickey|away's next blog post Oct 19 05:37:06 good morning Oct 19 05:39:04 * xzcvczx is looking forward to the GPS/gsm firmware upgrade things that will hopefully be released soon Oct 19 05:39:55 CM, the news becomes like crack hey :) Oct 19 05:40:18 cb22: Hehe.. Oh yes... I need my fix! Oct 19 05:43:59 * CVirus is crying for a Neo1973 Oct 19 05:44:03 I can't wait that long :-S Oct 19 05:44:41 same here :( Oct 19 06:07:16 moin Oct 19 06:46:31 Nice to see Harald in a good mood :D http://gnumonks.org/~laforge/weblog/2007/10/19/#20071019-heading_back_to_germany Oct 19 06:47:52 yeah. his next post about linux on the airline is pretty interesting too Oct 19 06:49:00 Hehe, I know. I noticed something similar in our tram station displays here in Gothenburg. A via thing, 256mb and a flash disk ram running X :) Oct 19 07:22:36 mickey|tw: Hello there :) Oct 19 07:22:39 hi ho Oct 19 07:23:02 They sent Harald back when you arrived or? ;) Oct 19 07:23:18 yes. we can't stand each other Oct 19 07:23:22 (joking) Oct 19 07:23:23 Hehe Oct 19 07:24:51 it's much nicer than last time Oct 19 07:24:58 due to the weather and the new office Oct 19 07:25:43 starts a build... Oct 19 07:26:23 Good to hear. Hope that helps with the internal disagreements too :) Oct 19 07:29:11 lets see... Oct 19 07:29:22 today is not much happening anyways, since i Oct 19 07:29:24 m super-tired Oct 19 07:31:36 mickey|tw: Was some discussions yesterday that removing the theming of OM speeds everything up tremendously Oct 19 07:32:00 gtk-theming that is Oct 19 07:37:19 * ScaredyCat points at scap.... Oct 19 07:37:27 huge difference in speed Oct 19 07:38:00 ScaredyCat: thats well known Oct 19 07:41:46 completed a normal build... Oct 19 07:43:56 completed a ScaredyCat build... Oct 19 07:46:14 starts uploading images... Oct 19 07:50:32 ScaredyCat: have you gotten qtopia to build against gstreamer yet? Oct 19 07:51:00 i did include it... Oct 19 07:51:13 I don;t know if it worked properly yt :/ Oct 19 07:51:28 (included witht he ExTRAS Oct 19 07:51:58 i did, only gstreamer plugins weren't installed.. so I have to add those Oct 19 07:55:22 are you creating new snapshots with these fixes.. Oct 19 07:57:35 havent added gstreamer yet Oct 19 08:21:37 builds some other apps... Oct 19 08:29:13 hi there. Oct 19 08:32:12 after, "wget http://www.rwhitby.net/files/openmoko/Makefile; make setup", and before doing "bitbake -c fetchall openmoko-devel-image", what needs to be done? Oct 19 08:33:59 builds new package lists and uploads them... Oct 19 08:40:21 CM: yes, i can imagine that the default theme speeds up rendering quite a bit, however it´s incredibly dull Oct 19 08:40:42 Sure is, look at the screencaps. Oct 19 08:41:00 Would be nice to be able to speed it up though :) Oct 19 08:41:02 ok, found it, "source setup-env" to source environment variables, so it can find bitbake Oct 19 08:41:06 has built images and packages and uploaded them all... Oct 19 08:41:56 mbuf: We should send rwhitby a patch to the Makefile that adds a fetch-%s option :) Oct 19 08:43:23 CM, i am wondering if we can just download the update packages, and build them, rather than having to go to the Internet all the time; some people are still on dial-up Oct 19 08:43:45 mbuf: You mean just ipkg update? Oct 19 08:44:06 CM, no for setting up the build environment on the host Oct 19 08:44:26 Ah, ok. I think that's something they're working on already in OE Oct 19 08:44:31 a build environment :) Oct 19 08:44:59 mickey|tw: you're doing a fresh build, or some other reason http://buildhost.openmoko.org/OM2007.2/ is empty? Oct 19 08:45:10 CM, i see Oct 19 08:45:26 LarstiQ: I wonder too why the buildhost have been down for a month Oct 19 08:45:36 LarstiQ: i guess this machine has been newly setup Oct 19 08:45:45 let me check whether the data is still there Oct 19 08:46:38 hmm, some buildhost problems, i can´t login Oct 19 08:47:42 CM: oh, I've used it a dozen times within the last month Oct 19 08:47:45 CM: no problems then Oct 19 08:47:59 LarstiQ: Oh? Hmm.. Oct 19 08:48:47 Just didn't see any newer rootfs than Sept 17th, but I guess the wiki linked to the wrong dir Oct 19 08:51:23 CM: oh, I'm just upgrading ipkgs Oct 19 08:51:41 I'm doing that from ScaredyCat's repo Oct 19 09:10:32 howdy. is anybody working with gsmd, regarding dbus interface? Oct 19 09:10:41 or, is one planned at the moment? Oct 19 09:11:18 fatal-: It's planned, but i don't know if or who is working on it Oct 19 09:12:24 it's atleast in theory possible, that I might be able to help with that issue. what I'm mostly suprised about the gsmd is that it does not use glib Oct 19 09:12:51 nor nobody apparently even considered using dbus instead of writing ones own wrapper Oct 19 09:12:55 for communication Oct 19 09:13:58 bipolar: hey Oct 19 09:14:34 fatal-: have you read http://dominion.kabel.utwente.nl/koen/cms/unbreaking-openmoko ? Oct 19 09:15:55 fatal-: Basically, talk to thos and robtaylor I guess :) Oct 19 09:16:18 LarstiQ: reading.. :) Oct 19 09:17:47 fatal-: yes, Harald believes gsmd should depend on libc only Oct 19 09:18:01 fatal-: so a d-bus interface built into gsmd is out of the question Oct 19 09:18:51 thos: What's the rationale for the mere dependency on libc? Any idea? Oct 19 09:19:02 abraxa_: no idea at all :-) Oct 19 09:19:06 I kind of understand that kind of approach, but it's kind of pointless, in my opinion Oct 19 09:19:10 just a newbie here, so stupid question: can't the d-bus interface for gsmd then be built on top of the gsmd? probably that would be a bit complex... Oct 19 09:19:13 why make things hard just for the sake of it? :o Oct 19 09:19:37 fatal-: ask Harald :-P Oct 19 09:19:47 Batalyx: that is what I proposed Oct 19 09:20:45 fatal-: it makes other things much easier. Oct 19 09:21:06 thos: oh, yes... Oct 19 09:21:47 LarstiQ: what other things? Oct 19 09:21:52 surely making it work properly is the goal... Oct 19 09:22:12 setting the target as only depending on libc seems, well daft Oct 19 09:22:15 ScaredyCat: I hope it is, but I'm not convinced yet ;) Oct 19 09:24:24 ehhe Oct 19 09:25:02 there are really 2 dependancies there anyway... Oct 19 09:25:08 libc and 'it actually working' Oct 19 09:28:48 thos: if gsmd should depend on libc only, does he want to reimplement bindings for the dbus in it as well? :) Oct 19 09:29:34 fatal-: he doesn't want to put any dbus in it at all Oct 19 09:33:09 thos: does he totally oppose things such as dbus or does he think that the binding should be done by using the current way of communicating to the gsmd? Oct 19 09:33:42 What does qtopia use to communicate with the modem? Oct 19 09:33:59 dunno, haven't checked so Oct 19 09:34:03 far Oct 19 09:34:05 fatal-: he just doesn't want d-bus in gsmd Oct 19 09:34:24 fatal-: so the d-bus service will be written using libgsmd Oct 19 09:35:16 what point is having gsmd then at all? Oct 19 09:35:26 ah Oct 19 09:35:48 so, libgsmd is really the api Oct 19 09:36:05 I'm used to think there would be an library to access all the stuff in the modem Oct 19 09:36:11 so this whole thing is in reverse Oct 19 09:38:10 so, err, one has to have two daemons running. fun. Oct 19 09:38:15 fatal-: libgsmd offers an api to talk to gsmd Oct 19 09:38:18 gsmd _and_ dbus-gsmd Oct 19 09:38:29 which doesn't sound very efficient to me Oct 19 09:38:54 fatal-: yes, but my proposed PhoneKit will also do other stuff, like managing the communication history Oct 19 09:38:55 dbus is what usock stuff does Oct 19 09:39:33 lemme check the diagram again, personally I'd separate those functions... Oct 19 09:40:01 modem -> gsmd -> libgsmd -> dbus -> application? Oct 19 09:40:06 fatal-: the point is there does need to be some journal management process Oct 19 09:40:26 fatal-: and you need to do it before the applications get there Oct 19 09:41:21 fatal-: personally I would much prefer if we just had one daemon too, but unless you fork or re-write gsmd it isn't going to happen Oct 19 09:41:23 thos: the diagram lists phonekit and mokojournal as separate entities Oct 19 09:41:41 fatal-: mokojournal is a library Oct 19 09:42:08 fatal-: it's actually just a convenience layer to e-d-s anyway Oct 19 09:42:42 i think what it really boils down to is what's the best way of using the journaling from a single application Oct 19 09:43:05 guaqua: we already have a way of using the journal from a single application Oct 19 09:43:23 guaqua: what is important is making sure there is a certain amount of consistency Oct 19 09:43:45 there is consistency if the devs see it appropriate Oct 19 09:43:50 at least that's what i gather Oct 19 09:44:25 framework hell can be created Oct 19 09:51:10 thos: about the PhoneKit diagram: what does the arrow between GSMD and PhoneKit present? Oct 19 09:53:03 thos: is it the libgsmd over the named unix socket? Oct 19 09:53:15 mudyc: interaction over libgsmd (possibly via the gobject abstraction layer) Oct 19 09:53:58 * robtaylor hears his name mentioned Oct 19 09:54:43 At the last lips meating there seemed quite a bit of interest in a fd.o standard dbus interface for talking to gsm stacks Oct 19 09:55:54 I actually think its a probable security risk to be talking AT commands to the gsmd Oct 19 09:57:08 at least there are some security considerations done in the implementation of dbus (system bus) Oct 19 09:57:13 robtaylor: but until gsm stack lack functions for some stuff sending AT command and parsing result in application is solution Oct 19 09:57:25 robtaylor: well, seeing as anything could kill gsmd and talk to the modem with AT commands anyway, that isn't really a valid point Oct 19 09:57:39 you'd need to do security at the kernel level Oct 19 09:57:52 thos: yeah, i was going to say its not too relevent on this hardware Oct 19 09:58:37 thos: that was more from a single core/gsm on dsp discussion Oct 19 09:59:11 thos: does everything run as root on OM atm? Oct 19 10:00:03 robtaylor: Looks like it Oct 19 10:00:08 niiice Oct 19 10:00:22 * robtaylor feels the security Oct 19 10:00:50 Does the hardware not have memory protection and virtual memory? Oct 19 10:01:01 thos: the device access can be restricted Oct 19 10:04:15 hi raster Oct 19 10:04:34 mickey|tw: are you happy now? Oct 19 10:04:49 moo Oct 19 10:05:02 how is the office like? Oct 19 10:05:07 hi all Oct 19 10:07:28 zecke: happy? no way. the office is cool though Oct 19 10:08:19 and the apartment where the europeans are staying has an awesome view Oct 19 10:10:00 mickey|tw, arrived in tw I see? You had a good flight? Oct 19 10:11:08 pvanhoof: apart from me not being able to sleep during any flight, it was nice and quiet Oct 19 10:11:17 which means i´m _really_ tired by now Oct 19 10:11:26 :D Oct 19 10:11:28 go sleep then! Oct 19 10:11:31 nah Oct 19 10:11:35 or drink some redbul Oct 19 10:12:40 * zecke deserves some sleep as well... Oct 19 10:12:53 must... acclimatise... to.... timezone.... Oct 19 10:13:49 mickey|tw, no sleep? going strong? :) Oct 19 10:14:01 trying to Oct 19 10:14:06 just what raster says Oct 19 10:14:08 mickey|tw, I was up until 6 O' clock, implementing QRESYNC in tinymail, and awake at 11 Oct 19 10:14:18 can´t risk to make my timezone up-side-down Oct 19 10:14:20 For some reason .. my body wanted to be awake Oct 19 10:14:22 pvanhoof: cool Oct 19 10:14:27 pvanhoof: does it work now? Oct 19 10:14:33 yep, very good even Oct 19 10:14:51 turner.dave.cridland.net Oct 19 10:14:57 pvanhoof / qresync Oct 19 10:15:04 don't tell dave I gave everybody that login :) Oct 19 10:15:32 First time the demoui will ask for a normal condstore select (compile tinymail with -DDEBUG in your cflags, you'll see the IMAP traffic) Oct 19 10:15:40 after that it does qresync ones Oct 19 10:15:54 complete folder synchronizations in one tcp/ip frame :D Oct 19 10:16:06 that's the thing that takes evolution so much time each time you click a folder :) Oct 19 10:16:28 wireshark it :) Oct 19 10:16:35 hmm, so you´re deep inside enhancing mail standards now Oct 19 10:16:57 live is good 12 meter under imap Oct 19 10:17:14 or is it 'life'? Oct 19 10:17:43 yes, with an f :) Oct 19 10:19:32 pvanhoof: you mean read/undread status? Oct 19 10:19:58 no flags and expunges Oct 19 10:20:07 Ah Oct 19 10:20:09 and new messages's summary items Oct 19 10:20:13 Nice Oct 19 10:20:21 * SpeedEvil hasn't done IMAP. Oct 19 10:20:28 Problem with unread status is deleted messages that are unseen Oct 19 10:20:35 they'll be counted as unread Oct 19 10:20:41 With STATUS Oct 19 10:21:19 so you want to do ... Oct 19 10:21:21 01 SELECT INBOX\r\n Oct 19 10:21:21 02 SEARCH RETURN (COUNT) UNDELETED UNSEEN\r\n Oct 19 10:21:31 But that's ESEARCH, very few imap servers have that already Oct 19 10:21:44 And you need to select each folder, which is quite expensive on an imap server Oct 19 10:22:42 Of course, once you've done a qresync or a condstore select, you have all the flags and you can count that number yourself from your local caches Oct 19 10:23:06 but we're not going to do that for all folders upon startup, that would consume loads of bandwidth each time Oct 19 10:23:29 All you need to do now is an AI to extract the meaningful content of emails, stripped of extra words. Oct 19 10:23:43 :) Oct 19 10:24:33 This ubuntu mobile guy has an imap account with each and every ubuntu project represented by a folder Oct 19 10:24:41 that's something cute to test :) Oct 19 10:24:44 I think a bundle of proxy servers customised for OM would actually be a good plan. Oct 19 10:24:48 +10,000 folders :) Oct 19 10:25:05 oh yes, mbox is nice for that Oct 19 10:25:17 Caching web-proxy that crunches all data, mail proxy, ... Oct 19 10:25:19 it proxies POP3 and other IMAP servers transparently Oct 19 10:25:40 backups, ID server, ... Oct 19 10:25:50 it's just a small setting, and you can add a bunch of those 'remote servers' to an mbox Oct 19 10:26:21 For example GMail over IMAP in a transparent way, for all your customers :) Oct 19 10:26:38 now that sounds nice Oct 19 10:26:46 That sort of thing, also web compression - you can do insane levels of compression if you do it right. Oct 19 10:27:04 SpeedEvil, IMAP has COMPRESS and TLS has compression too Oct 19 10:27:45 So for email, to translate it to http, sounds like adding overhead to me :) (and a lot) Oct 19 10:28:55 pvanhoof: compress isn't quite what I was meaning. In the mail context it'd be that you know what email you sent, the server knows you have a copy of that email, so you can say 'here he quotes lines 3-20' in several bytes, rather than compressing it on incoming mails naively. Oct 19 10:28:59 I mean, we're trying to optimize here by packing multiple replies of multiple imap commands into one tcp/ip frame, converting it to something like SOAP would add 800% of data and each command would become a new roundtrip? :p Oct 19 10:29:34 oh I see Oct 19 10:29:50 hmm, that'd be hard and racy though Oct 19 10:29:56 For webpages, this is lots better. Ebay.com, compressed goes to 15K. If you compress the differnences between last time you loaded it and now, it goes to under 0.5K Oct 19 10:30:20 (typically) Oct 19 10:30:37 thos, had a lunch.. anyhow, is the messaging side somehow already thought out? where will the messages be stored? apparently the gsmd support the sim storage but that's not sufficient pratically for anything Oct 19 10:30:54 note that 0.5 K is a lot for email data (that is not the email itself) Oct 19 10:31:17 fatal-: sms messages will be stored in the journal Oct 19 10:31:28 And with IDLE and NOTIFY you already get only the differences, SpeedEvil Oct 19 10:31:39 And condstore too, of course Oct 19 10:31:55 pvanhoof: Yes, I know. I'm just meaning for webpages. Ebay.com changes often, so only downloading new versions doesn't help. Only comparing diffs. Oct 19 10:31:58 SpeedEvil, with condstore you store a sequence number on each folder, and you give that to the imap server Oct 19 10:32:04 oh yes, for webpages indeed Oct 19 10:32:06 thos: what's the actual storage of the journal? Oct 19 10:32:17 anyway, based on that sequence number you get only the differences back Oct 19 10:32:23 and it gives you a new sequence number Oct 19 10:32:27 fatal-: e-d-s, i.e. ical Oct 19 10:32:48 with compress, you can't make it much smaller. You do need to get the differences somehow right? :) Oct 19 10:32:53 pvanhoof: nice. http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Server:Proxy is the basic outline of the web thingy. Oct 19 10:33:02 taking a look Oct 19 10:33:25 I need to flesh that out and add detailed measurements. Oct 19 10:33:33 right, I would recommend openmoko to take a look at mbox if they would want to also proxy email data efficiently Oct 19 10:33:49 thos: how "heavy" is the e-d-s in practice? Oct 19 10:34:19 because indeed, POP3 is really unefficient compared to a modern IMAP server, and will consume a lot more bandwidth Oct 19 10:34:47 fatal-: you'll have to define "heavy" Oct 19 10:35:04 ah, it seems to have an e-e-d-s version :) Oct 19 10:35:54 SpeedEvil, is openmoko as an organization planning to deploy such servers? Oct 19 10:36:00 pvanhoof: dunno Oct 19 10:36:05 pvanhoof: it was an idea. Oct 19 10:36:08 Well it's not a bad idea Oct 19 10:36:22 It's just an administrative cost too Oct 19 10:36:22 It seems to enable interesting things. Oct 19 10:36:57 As rather than having each mail/web/... client try to do its own thing, one protocol can be developed to. Oct 19 10:37:01 Well, it's a bit of a privacy concern to me too. so it would have to be optional Oct 19 10:37:28 My idea - though I haven't expanded on this - was basically for the servers to be an opensource pack. Oct 19 10:37:35 thos: less than 54kg :) Oct 19 10:37:36 Ah but for mail, the latest imap improvements are really sufficient Oct 19 10:37:42 pvanhoof, obviously you'd run your own proxy were you concerned about that Oct 19 10:37:43 You compile it and host it wherever you like. Oct 19 10:37:50 mjr, right Oct 19 10:38:19 It's just that one server farm (for a small fee) would have benefits in terms of ease of use. Oct 19 10:38:32 indeed Oct 19 10:38:55 SpeedEvil, though, one protocol is not a good idea. Each existing protocol as its own specific reason why it's good wat what it does Oct 19 10:39:01 And possibly security - do it over a VPN and you can't be snooped over GPRS Oct 19 10:39:05 it wouldn't even have that much bandwidth requirements per user for obvious reasons :] Oct 19 10:39:10 Especially once we start talking about gprs and roundtrips become deadly expensive in time Oct 19 10:39:10 pvanhoof: I mean a suite of protocols. Oct 19 10:39:20 Right Oct 19 10:39:22 pvanhoof: not jam everything into one. Oct 19 10:39:55 IMAP4 Lemonade with condstore, qresync, binary, NOTIFY, TLS (with compression) and optionally compress Oct 19 10:40:09 But concentrating development on one mail, web, backup, contacts, ... protocol. Oct 19 10:40:22 Rather than fragmenting. Oct 19 10:40:24 That will even work with old email clients, and modern ones will be blazing fast Oct 19 10:41:41 And you get push-email (notify) in such a way that you can make it not drain your battery because your gprs unit can be shut down for ~20 minutes (an imap server wont disconnect you if there's 20 minutes of inactivity) Oct 19 10:42:23 GPRS doesn't actually use that much power with an idle link IIRC Oct 19 10:42:41 I dunno if there is any prospect of wake on packet though. Oct 19 10:44:37 Writchie told me yesterday it already does that Oct 19 10:45:54 I mean CPU wake on packet Oct 19 10:46:15 With the thing in suspend-RAM until it gets a packet Oct 19 10:47:31 aha right Oct 19 10:47:40 morning folks Oct 19 10:48:11 Well my current idea is to simply keep the gprs connection alive and hope that the hardware is intelligent enough to shut it down as soon as it's not receiving packets for a certain amount of time Oct 19 10:48:33 and then do a wake up (a NOOP on IMAP) each 20th minute, else the IMAP server will disconnect you Oct 19 10:49:01 pvanhoof: thats probably a good plan, GPRS link on my HTC Wizard will idle for days without noticble battery life shortening Oct 19 10:49:09 and set the server's session's state in IDLE or deal with NOTIFY Oct 19 10:49:25 XorA, ok Oct 19 10:49:36 pvanhoof: thats Win Mobile of course Oct 19 10:49:55 The question of course is whether openmoko's hardware will act like this too :) Oct 19 10:50:13 because otherwise it's not a good idea for the email application to keep the connection alive Oct 19 10:51:42 Can the server notify you on new mail? Oct 19 10:52:01 that's IDLE and NOTIFY Oct 19 10:52:12 so the server will typically wait for changes to pack them together Oct 19 10:52:32 I mean if you want, can you get a packet as new email arrives? Oct 19 10:52:38 and then when it thinks your client wants to know about it, it'll just unsolicited send it to you Oct 19 10:52:48 yes it will send you an EXISTS line Oct 19 10:53:12 so you know you have say 5 mails, it will send you a "* 6 EXISTS" Oct 19 10:53:17 If wake on incoming GPRS packet works, that would be nice. Oct 19 10:53:24 yep Oct 19 10:53:36 * CM hopes it will be easy to disable the mail sync Oct 19 10:53:38 It resumes, gets the packet, vibrates, goes to sleep Oct 19 10:53:45 and for deletes it depends: QRESYNC then you get "* VANISHED 1:30,2:1" Oct 19 10:53:46 (if you want it to) Oct 19 10:53:56 Roaming charges for gprs can be rediculous Oct 19 10:54:01 and with non-qresync you get : for each deleted e-mail "* 1 EXPUNGE" Oct 19 10:54:07 And wakes every 20 min for a couple of seconds to ping the server Oct 19 10:54:25 CM, yes there are of course concerns that I share with you :) Oct 19 10:54:47 CM, but that's why a modern IMAP server as proxy server is interesting Oct 19 10:55:18 CM, see a QRESYNC capable one, sends you info that an old IMAP one sends in lots of frames, in one frame Oct 19 10:55:26 SpeedEvil: Also, that proxy thing you mention sounds a bit like what OperaMini does Oct 19 10:55:46 CM, that's because you only have to send one request, so it can pack data together (it doesn't need to wait for a new request coming from you) Oct 19 10:55:49 CM: I haven't found details of that protocol or in detail server. Oct 19 10:55:59 Whereas if you look at POP3, you have to ask for each and every Email Oct 19 10:56:19 What about attatchments? Oct 19 10:56:20 SpeedEvil, you don't need to ping the server Oct 19 10:56:45 pvanhoof: to tell it you're alive and don't want it to disconnect you Oct 19 10:56:49 CM, they'll be retrieved on demand (although this is not the case, you can right now with tny either retrieve just the text parts or all of the email) Oct 19 10:56:58 Ok Oct 19 10:57:00 SpeedEvil, yes, that you do need to do indeed Oct 19 10:57:17 CM, I'm working on on-demand retrieving the parts Oct 19 10:57:23 Cool :) Oct 19 10:57:26 pvanhoof: but only wakeup 2s/20min isn't bad. Oct 19 10:57:35 If it gives you instant email. Oct 19 10:57:43 Yep Oct 19 10:58:06 And you can still develop something that listens for an SMS too Oct 19 10:58:16 to wake up and invoke a synchronization Oct 19 10:59:04 SpeedEvil, the "instant" depends a little bit on the imap server, though Oct 19 10:59:10 Most imap servers group IDLE events together Oct 19 10:59:13 I've used gmail on my W610, and I can send/recieve a lot of emails in a few kb Oct 19 10:59:41 GMail is POP3 (unless you used the webclient), so it's definitely not efficient :) Oct 19 10:59:57 And Kb is not the most important thing for GPRS, roundtrips are Oct 19 11:00:09 Does their client use pop3 too? Oct 19 11:00:15 * CM hasn't checked Oct 19 11:00:37 I can imagine it's some sort of glorified browser Oct 19 11:01:07 imap's async nature allows for some roundtrip optimizing, happily Oct 19 11:01:18 mjr, yep (pipelining) Oct 19 11:02:04 Dave's Polymer is an experimental e-mail client that heavily uses pipelining Oct 19 11:02:19 Regretfully it's so experimental that you really want a very modern IMAP server for it :) Oct 19 11:06:23 if only imap wasn't so slow to my mailserver... Oct 19 11:07:49 Install a better one? :) Oct 19 11:08:32 well no Oct 19 11:08:39 its just 220ms round-trip time to there Oct 19 11:09:00 so you are a perfect candidate for an imap server that has qresync and an email client that implements it Oct 19 11:09:03 :) Oct 19 11:09:16 wellmy problem is i am moving my folders TO imap Oct 19 11:09:18 from local Oct 19 11:09:21 220ms is fast, actually, if you look at typical gprs connections Oct 19 11:09:25 and soem ofthem have 1000's of mails Oct 19 11:09:29 so thats goingto... take a while Oct 19 11:09:32 220ms in fact doesn't sound like gprs at all Oct 19 11:09:37 it's not Oct 19 11:10:10 raster, when you send large things, roundtrip time is less important though Oct 19 11:10:20 roundtrip is only when there's a lot of interactivity Oct 19 11:10:20 yeah Oct 19 11:10:21 i know Oct 19 11:10:26 its just a... transitional phase thing Oct 19 11:10:58 like, it'll take some time before a new Email starts being sent Oct 19 11:11:03 but then it'll be fast Oct 19 11:29:46 hi, can I install openmoko on my htc tytn II (kaiser)? how? I can't find anything on the net Oct 19 11:29:57 openmoko: 03mickey * r3226 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/libraries/libmokopanelui2/ (ChangeLog libmokopanelui/moko-panel-applet.c): libmokopanelui2: try to workaround scaling image bug Oct 19 11:33:23 mb: Don't think anyone has done that yet, you could be first :) Oct 19 11:35:46 CM: thanks man :D you're answer is the solution to my problem :D I'm joking; however I 'hopped' that someone already did that :/ Oct 19 11:37:34 mb: Maybe the people in #oe know more. Maybe using an ångström build Oct 19 11:38:57 CM: thanks dude, I'm running to ask there Oct 19 11:39:46 When is FIC announcing it's new OpenMoko based devices ?! Oct 19 11:42:54 CVirus: You mean the HXD8? Oct 19 11:43:29 CM: cool ... let me check Oct 19 11:43:33 That was supposed to be when the GTA02 is out, I think Oct 19 11:43:41 CVirus: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/HXD8 Oct 19 11:44:51 CM: any other devices ? Oct 19 11:45:05 Not that I've heard about.. Oct 19 11:45:35 CVirus: But I'd like something looking like the N810 and using this chip: http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS8838596703.html Oct 19 11:47:14 if only the N810 had a GSM chipset Oct 19 11:48:37 Or umts :) Oct 19 11:49:08 maybe Oct 19 11:49:22 and running OpenMoko instead of Maemo Oct 19 11:49:23 :-p Oct 19 11:52:32 :) Oct 19 11:55:08 but we still dont know much about hxd8 do we? Oct 19 11:55:32 no word about formfactor etc Oct 19 11:57:56 Nothing.. Oct 19 11:58:08 it could be a space shuttle for what we know for sure, with a really bad camera for a space shuttle Oct 19 11:58:17 Haven't seen much kernel patches or so lately either that refer to it Oct 19 11:58:20 the camera is really bad for just about anything Oct 19 12:32:47 counter Oct 19 12:32:52 !counter Oct 19 12:33:04 aloril's triggers are all gone :/ Oct 19 12:33:10 :( Oct 19 12:33:14 December sometime. Maybe. Oct 19 12:33:15 not even faq? or wiki? works Oct 19 12:33:31 CM see: http://wiki.openmoko.com/wiki/FAQ Oct 19 12:33:57 faq? Oct 19 12:34:02 Hmm.. Oct 19 12:34:05 ;) Oct 19 12:34:27 the neo's going to be obsolete before it's even released Oct 19 12:34:51 it is released Oct 19 12:34:54 Perhaps. Oct 19 12:35:08 In some ways, FIC doesn't care if the Neo fails. Oct 19 12:35:24 What OM means is that they have a choice for their next phone. Oct 19 12:35:42 right, in some ways they've already done the job they set out to do just by forcing everyone else to open up their phone platforms more. Oct 19 12:35:46 neo is a development platform Oct 19 12:35:50 Yeah. Oct 19 12:35:55 that too Oct 19 12:36:17 But if the platform fails, they don't really care, as long as they have equal access to the OM platform as others do. Oct 19 12:36:27 s/platform/neo1973/ Oct 19 12:36:27 SpeedEvil meant: But if the neo1973 fails, they don't really care, as long as they have equal access to the OM platform as others do. Oct 19 12:36:59 For their next phone, where all they have to do is some theming work for the new screen size, and the hardware drivers. Oct 19 12:37:12 Rather than writing a whole new OS before being able to sell it to customers. Oct 19 12:37:28 i'm guessing fic has had an os before Oct 19 12:37:34 WinCE Oct 19 12:37:48 they've only done wince phones before? Oct 19 12:37:54 Not that. Oct 19 12:38:14 But they have previously done (AIUI) largely others OSs Oct 19 12:38:20 for which they need to pay licenses. Oct 19 12:39:27 Or as a subcontractor, for which the lead company writes the OS. Oct 19 12:39:38 yes Oct 19 12:40:03 For them going to a 'PC' model - where they just make hardware and sell it to customers is a big plus. Oct 19 13:08:25 SpeedEvil: does gllin gave any information nevermind if he has gpsfix or not? Oct 19 13:54:26 Heh, the oxford dictionary have some interesting additions.. http://www.oed.com/bbcwords/dog-bollocks-new.html Oct 19 13:57:23 that's in correct... Oct 19 13:57:30 it's : Oct 19 13:57:38 dog's bollocks Oct 19 13:58:02 the link i mena Oct 19 13:58:20 dog bollocks are what dogs have, well some aynway Oct 19 13:59:13 Under 50% Oct 19 13:59:23 * SpeedEvil passes ScaredyCat some nuticles. Oct 19 13:59:34 SpeedEvil: Besserwisser.. ;) Oct 19 13:59:54 Just heard that word used today in a podcast Oct 19 13:59:55 Messershmith! Oct 19 14:00:05 ISH BIN EIN KARTOFFEL! Oct 19 14:00:18 Might have been Mark Shuttleworth who used it even. :) Oct 19 14:01:44 openmoko: 03thomas * r3227 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-appearance/ (16 files in 2 dirs): * Add new openmoko-appearance application Oct 19 14:02:01 CM: you said it to me before, shuttleworth is copying you! Oct 19 14:02:20 je suis un rock star... Oct 19 14:02:36 j'habite la Oct 19 14:04:07 blogtastic Oct 19 14:04:13 Hehe Oct 19 14:04:29 Also learned what alfresco meant today Oct 19 14:06:35 zash: Eaten any of this this year? http://tinyurl.com/2746ak Oct 19 14:08:43 testate agents use 'alfresco' a lot in the uk ... uk estate agents are retards Oct 19 14:10:02 Hmm... I wonder what the appearance application is for... Oct 19 14:10:40 do't do it Oct 19 14:10:46 you'll regret it Oct 19 14:11:10 heh Oct 19 14:13:07 abraxa_: :-) Oct 19 14:13:18 abraxa_: for changing colours and other appearance settings Oct 19 14:13:26 abraxa_: and just for a bit of fun :-) Oct 19 14:14:12 i'm hoping it's also a good example application for people wanting to learn how to program OpenMoko/GTK+ Oct 19 14:14:49 thos: Happen to have a binary laying around that I could check out? Oct 19 14:15:26 abraxa_: not yet, I just asked XorA to create a bb file Oct 19 14:15:58 Ohh, okay - I love how we now have someone to bug about OE affairs :) Oct 19 14:16:18 (I bet he has no idea what he got himself into there ;D) Oct 19 14:16:23 well, it's really that i'm too lazy to copy one and write it up now Oct 19 14:16:31 i spent all day coding damnit! Oct 19 14:17:27 sloccount says it should have taken me 2 years to write what i've done today! Oct 19 14:18:26 lol Oct 19 14:18:28 thos: Measuring programming progress by lines of code is like measuring aircraft building progress by weight. - Bill Gates Oct 19 14:18:30 Gotta love those things Oct 19 14:18:36 actually oops Oct 19 14:18:37 that's wrong Oct 19 14:18:39 haha Oct 19 14:18:40 (mmeeks blog today) Oct 19 14:19:08 I guess autogenerated code shouldn't really count ;-) Oct 19 14:23:31 CM: I hate you for posting the tinyurl link. Oct 19 14:23:55 abraxa_: Why? Distracting? Oct 19 14:23:55 My curiosity made me check out the other "foods" presented. Oct 19 14:23:57 I regret it. Oct 19 14:23:59 xP Oct 19 14:24:00 Surströmming is good.. Oct 19 14:25:31 * jeddy3 checked out the other foods to...gross :/ Oct 19 14:25:43 s/to/too/ Oct 19 14:26:03 CM: nä, palla gammal rutten fisk pÃ¥ burk Oct 19 14:26:07 I really could never ever eats bugs. Oct 19 14:26:08 NO way. Oct 19 14:28:01 * SpeedEvil starves abraxa_ for a month, then offers him a plate of chocolate covered ants. Oct 19 14:28:12 wtf? swedish? Oct 19 14:28:19 SpeedEvil: I'll be dead by then. I'm too thin :) Oct 19 14:28:48 heh, surstromming Oct 19 14:28:54 my father used to eat that Oct 19 14:29:32 <_buz> oh neat, 8G microsd available for pre order Oct 19 14:29:51 <_buz> for roughly 65EUR Oct 19 14:30:11 Insane. Oct 19 14:30:36 I'm surprised that nobodies produced microSD-RAID. Oct 19 14:31:04 <_buz> oh even comes with an sdhc reader Oct 19 14:31:08 SpeedEvil: I'm not sure it quallifies yet for the I part ;) Oct 19 14:31:08 I mean - 15*microSD = fit in a 20mm cube and provide 80GB Oct 19 14:31:14 True. Oct 19 14:31:25 ubuntu7.10 is sweet Oct 19 14:31:32 oh Oct 19 14:31:32 _buz: where? Oct 19 14:31:35 oh? Oct 19 14:31:40 and will OpenMoko support something that large? Oct 19 14:31:48 <_buz> should support Oct 19 14:31:51 <_buz> switzerland Oct 19 14:32:08 <_buz> they explicitely state not to have stock though Oct 19 14:32:13 heh Oct 19 14:32:27 hmm, same continent... ;) Oct 19 14:32:38 viq: Depends - they are I, compared to historical prices of storage. Oct 19 14:33:02 <_buz> microsd raid5 hehehehe Oct 19 14:33:44 theres a co doin that Oct 19 14:34:01 multi channel flash - like, 180 channels or something Oct 19 14:34:04 That would be ballpark be 120G for the same price as 65M or so when I first got a computer. Oct 19 14:34:11 And rather smaller. Oct 19 14:34:24 The ST225R could be heard booting from the other end of the house. Oct 19 14:34:32 Through three closed doors. Oct 19 14:34:39 5.25" full-height. Oct 19 14:35:07 nice. Oct 19 14:35:18 we used something similar as a doorstop Oct 19 14:35:21 micro sd is 20mb/s isn't it? Oct 19 14:35:28 cm lol Oct 19 14:35:30 CM, different classes Oct 19 14:35:33 cm in the best case Oct 19 14:36:00 * CM is an optimist Oct 19 14:37:31 I get (on the neo, with the included SD - 86 meg in 25s Oct 19 14:37:45 So 3.4M/s Oct 19 14:38:22 fast enough Oct 19 14:38:34 So you'll need 20 or so to beat a regular sata disk Oct 19 14:38:49 Which will still fit in a 20mm cube. Oct 19 14:39:10 and eat whole battery just for a spin-off Oct 19 14:39:11 :p Oct 19 14:39:42 how much does the microsd actually draw? Oct 19 14:39:53 Not much. Oct 19 14:40:17 and our new smedia chip? Oct 19 14:40:56 Don't know. Oct 19 14:41:26 but it should be more efficent using it for things like mpeg4 decoding then the cpu? Oct 19 14:41:34 Yes. Oct 19 14:41:34 hi ppl Oct 19 14:41:41 If it supports it. Oct 19 14:41:50 According to the site... Oct 19 14:41:56 There is a problem. Oct 19 14:41:58 ppl is there plans to port openmoko to zaurus plateform ? under bsd ? Oct 19 14:41:59 * cb22 wonders how mplayer / ffmpeg / gst would use it Oct 19 14:42:07 The decoder is simply a video decoder. Oct 19 14:42:11 Not an audio decoder. Oct 19 14:42:19 And it can't read from SD Oct 19 14:42:28 hmmm Oct 19 14:42:32 So the CPU has to stay awake and feed it data and decode MP3 Oct 19 14:42:37 So it's questionable. Oct 19 14:42:42 b52laptop: it shouldd alreayd work on zauruss under linux, why troll about BSD? Oct 19 14:43:08 SpeedEvil, but decoding mpeg4 on there should be faster then on software? Oct 19 14:43:13 cbrake_away: no Oct 19 14:43:18 abraxa_: I've eaten balut too btw Oct 19 14:43:22 cb22: It will at most be 1s/s Oct 19 14:43:29 1s/s? Oct 19 14:43:41 cbrake_away: You don't want to decode faster than realtime, even if you can. Oct 19 14:43:49 Sigh Oct 19 14:43:55 XorA, well late say it' s a personnal preference :d , linux is becoming too huge :d ; for exemple openbsd run well on zaurus , i don't want to troll :d ; i was just curious that's all :D Oct 19 14:43:56 Very salty, and quite good. But nasty with the feathers and beak Oct 19 14:43:57 cbrake_away == me? Oct 19 14:44:00 yes Oct 19 14:44:08 * SpeedEvil has problems. Oct 19 14:44:14 clearly :) Oct 19 14:44:19 b52laptop: your fogiven then :-D fancy adding BSD into OE? Oct 19 14:44:29 Mainly that I have a bad havbit of not looking on the screen while typing. Oct 19 14:44:36 but what is 1s/s? Oct 19 14:44:36 oh Oct 19 14:44:36 right Oct 19 14:44:37 duh, just realized :) Oct 19 14:44:39 I was watching my cat. Oct 19 14:45:06 excuses... :) So, this thing should be powerful enough to do 640x480 mpeg4 decoding and rotation? Oct 19 14:45:10 or is that pushing? Oct 19 14:45:11 CM: I don't want to eat anything that resembles a face or any distinct part of an animal... no matter the taste Oct 19 14:45:15 It should be - apparently. Oct 19 14:45:19 nice Oct 19 14:45:22 XorA, :) thanks ; OE = ? Oct 19 14:45:30 Open Evil Oct 19 14:45:34 I'm not sure it's that important. Oct 19 14:45:37 ~oe Oct 19 14:45:38 rumour has it, oe is OpenEmbedded (see http://www.openembedded.org ), or "Opportunistic Encryption" (see http://www.wavesec.org ), or an email client which is not to be spoken of. Oct 19 14:45:43 b52laptop: OE is OpenEmbedded, what OpenMoko uses as its build system Oct 19 14:46:01 Other than compatibility to let you play large videos. Oct 19 14:46:09 SpeedEvil, one more thing, is it a 'fixed' style decoder thingy? Oct 19 14:46:14 yes. Oct 19 14:46:16 not a DSP thing like the nokias Oct 19 14:46:20 It's not a DSP thingy Oct 19 14:46:21 * CM is happy to try anything that's not still alive Oct 19 14:46:25 XorA, grr , yeah :( ; it will be a huge mess :( Oct 19 14:46:30 that's the model up - AIUI - which doesn't support VGA Oct 19 14:46:31 hi all Oct 19 14:47:51 what do you think the best possible battery life while playing mp3s we could get is? Oct 19 14:47:59 assuming _everything_ unnessacery is shut down Oct 19 14:48:11 I've had a battery draw equivalent to 8h. Oct 19 14:48:21 SpeedEvil: At 100MHz? Oct 19 14:48:25 However, I think it can be gotten a little better. Oct 19 14:48:27 Yes Oct 19 14:48:39 60Mhz, and optimising what peripherals are clocked at. Oct 19 14:48:42 and the gta02 is ~40% higher capacity Oct 19 14:48:42 That's acceptable for sure Oct 19 14:49:15 Is libgsmd-tool included in openMoko by default ? I need it to start gsm calls from MIDlets Oct 19 14:50:19 guillaum1: it is for me Oct 19 14:50:40 IIRC its going to be replaced with a dbus interface though? Oct 19 14:51:45 cb22: gsmd-dbus Oct 19 14:52:01 CM, for someone who knows the answer ;-) Oct 19 14:57:26 CM, ah sorry I thought it was a question... Oct 19 14:57:26 CM, so I should develop a binding of gsmd-dbus for java ? Oct 19 14:57:58 guillaum1: gsmd-dbus doesn't exist yet Oct 19 14:58:04 It's just a plan Oct 19 14:58:43 Was discussed earlier, use libgsmd instead for now Oct 19 14:58:48 At least that's my guess Oct 19 14:59:07 guillaum1: Others know more about it :) Oct 19 14:59:15 * CM pokes thos a bit Oct 19 14:59:46 crap.. latest qtopia build doesn't start at all Oct 19 15:00:12 CM, ok ;-). I'll start with libgsmd for now Oct 19 15:02:39 hi guillaum Oct 19 15:02:41 hello Oct 19 15:02:42 hi woglinde Oct 19 15:03:56 so... can anybody help me with http://www.pastebin.ca/741441? this totally blocks my image build :( Oct 19 15:04:59 Orzech_: fedora or other crap? Oct 19 15:05:10 suse 10.3 Oct 19 15:05:23 but recently I was able to build image Oct 19 15:05:41 and yesterday problems began after make clean and update Oct 19 15:05:42 re Oct 19 15:06:35 * CM calls it a day (strange expression, but I've heard that's what people say...) Oct 19 15:08:55 hrw, any ideas? (sorry for being in a hurry) Oct 19 15:10:27 Orzech_: nope Oct 19 15:11:17 hrw, damn, I've nice start into learning development apps for OM :D Oct 19 15:11:56 CM, maybe I should invoke the native dialer instead... (to not recreate the wheel) Oct 19 15:13:22 hum Oct 19 15:13:54 guillaum1: you want to write a new dialer? Oct 19 15:16:44 thos, I need to start a GSM call from a MIDlet. First I thought I could develop a small dialer. But best is to invoke the standard dialer Oct 19 15:17:03 guillaum1: yes, that's the best idea Oct 19 15:17:13 guillaum1: the dialer has a dbus interface with a Dial method Oct 19 15:17:29 guillaum1: although as CM mentioned, this will soon be moved into PhoneKit Oct 19 15:18:49 thos, ok. So I have to use a java-dbus binding to make it working Oct 19 15:18:59 yes Oct 19 15:19:34 well, thanks for help, maybe I'll figure it out Oct 19 15:19:42 thos, are there some docs about the Dial method and its parameters ? Oct 19 15:19:47 guillaum1: not yet Oct 19 15:19:55 plus, I broke some of the buttons in the dialer yesterday Oct 19 15:20:14 apologies to anyone who built it today Oct 19 15:20:26 tsk tsk Oct 19 15:20:31 button breaker Oct 19 15:21:44 cb22: but the buttons suck 100% less Oct 19 15:21:49 even though they are not visible ;-) Oct 19 15:22:09 hehe Oct 19 15:22:46 thos, do you have some source code instead ? Oct 19 15:22:47 with any luck the icons won't be incredibly small any more Oct 19 15:22:53 guillaum1: it's all in svn Oct 19 15:23:16 thos, ok I'll have a look. Thanks for your help ! Oct 19 15:23:31 thos: For the media player I had to use use of the pixmap engine (shudder) to customize some of the widget's drawing styles. Will this be possible with your engine, too? Oct 19 15:23:41 make use* Oct 19 15:25:15 abraxa_: sure, I have some options Oct 19 15:25:28 abraxa_: currently the only options are border (bool) and gradient (bool) Oct 19 15:25:32 hi Stephmw Oct 19 15:25:34 but I hope to add some more Oct 19 15:26:15 thos: That would be great. I'd love to hand you patches but I'm not sure I have enough time for that :( Oct 19 15:26:21 how do you do gradients? Oct 19 15:26:25 hey guillaum1 Oct 19 15:30:16 abraxa_: if you can give me some pictures of what you need I can take a look Oct 19 15:30:55 Hay :D Oct 19 15:31:19 When is it posibel to bay the phone in Denmark ? Oct 19 15:33:39 Selveste1: I think it is possible to buy the phone in Denmark now, from the US. Oct 19 15:33:49 * CM notices that openmoko-appearance is now in oe Oct 19 15:34:35 Selveste1: If you want a development version you can order it now :) Oct 19 15:35:08 thos: http://scap.linuxtogo.org/files/a75eb7618d19bdd69ac683145e4b8d42.png - http://svnweb.openmoko.org/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/artwork/themes/openmoko-standard-2/gtk-2.0/openmoko-mediaplayer?view=markup Oct 19 15:35:14 * CM gets a beer or two Oct 19 15:35:25 CM: I thought you wanted to call it a day ;) Oct 19 15:35:50 abraxa_: what parts in particular? Oct 19 15:36:50 thos: The progress bar and the buttons Oct 19 15:37:05 The progress bar should be quite easy to do as it's totally solid Oct 19 15:37:25 abraxa_: I meant working day, now I'm off to town ;) Oct 19 15:37:36 abraxa_: why do the buttons need special styling? Oct 19 15:37:39 CM: Ah - enjoy! Oct 19 15:37:43 abraxa_: you can easily make them white... Oct 19 15:38:44 thos: They need styling because I'm using both a pixmap for the background and foreground Oct 19 15:38:53 abraxa_: well don't Oct 19 15:38:53 Hi all Oct 19 15:39:08 abraxa_: use an icon for the foreground packed in the button Oct 19 15:39:09 thos: How would you go about that then? Oct 19 15:39:23 abraxa_: otherwise the size request will be broken on any other theme Oct 19 15:40:08 hi :) Oct 19 15:40:30 thos: You mean merging the button along with its icon instead of letting GTK do it? Oct 19 15:41:35 abraxa_: no, I mean use an image packed inside the button Oct 19 15:41:43 abraxa_: but secondly, use stock items anyway Oct 19 15:41:59 I can't, unfortunately Oct 19 15:42:07 And yes, I'm packing an image into the button :) Oct 19 15:42:29 abraxa_: why can't you use stock items? Oct 19 15:43:14 thos: Because the stock items are centered - the buttons however aren't, which would make the stock images mis-aligned Oct 19 15:43:42 Of course I could fix that with the button's x/yalign but I can't define those from within the theme Oct 19 15:44:02 abraxa_: why aren't the buttons centered? Oct 19 15:44:13 they look fairly central to me Oct 19 15:44:23 They have a shadow Oct 19 15:44:42 abraxa_: well, they won't in other themes... Oct 19 15:44:55 mickey|tw: good flight? Oct 19 15:45:13 Writchi1: pretty well, expect that i can't sleep on planes Oct 19 15:45:26 abraxa_: really, you need to do things so they are correct in gtk+ first, then try and get the theme to fit. don't try and do it the other way around Oct 19 15:45:37 you just haven't done enuf of it yet ;) Oct 19 15:45:49 abraxa_: otherwise you will end up with nasty hacks and you will find it looks ugly on any other theme anyway Oct 19 15:47:45 thos: What's "correct" in terms of GTK? Yes, I would like to use stock icons as well but GTK's utterly limited theming capabilities put a huge damper on my efforts Oct 19 15:48:06 dont wanna be a pain in the butt or so,but are there even rumours on a neo1973 successor ? Oct 19 15:48:57 SrRaven: AFAIK, there are plans of a successor Oct 19 15:49:12 abraxa_: well, if you want a completely custom graphics based GUI then don't use GTK+ for those bits Oct 19 15:49:23 abraxa_: just draw on a canvas or something Oct 19 15:50:21 Hmm... Oct 19 15:51:15 abraxa_: there's no point trying to hack your custom theming into the gtkrc because any other theme someone tries will be broken Oct 19 15:51:32 abraxa_: part of the reason for 2007.2 was to prevent such hacks Oct 19 15:51:47 hey thos Oct 19 15:51:57 <_buz> damn that compulab device looks nifty Oct 19 15:52:04 yeah Oct 19 15:52:06 nice battery too Oct 19 15:52:12 <_buz> and SANE design Oct 19 15:52:17 gw280: hi Oct 19 15:52:26 <_buz> i wonder what it costs fully specced Oct 19 15:54:30 <_buz> (or if trolltech decides to make that into greenphone mkII) Oct 19 15:54:35 hehe Oct 19 15:54:52 I wonder if gta02 can run x-moto Oct 19 15:55:09 I have a pb with connecting to the bootloader (i want to erase flash). using info on the wiki http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Bootloader i come to the point where /dev/ttyACM0 is present, i make the chown uucp.uucp on it and cu -l /dev/ttyACM0 which says it is connected, but i never get any prompt. any hints ? Oct 19 15:56:13 thos: What's wrong with putting images used to build the UI into the theme directory? Yes, standard themes won't have them but I just need non-standard images for the media player UI Oct 19 15:56:38 ...and those who build openmoko themes will have to create replacements for other UI elements anyway Oct 19 15:57:01 openmoko: 03thomas * r3228 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-dialer2/ (ChangeLog src/moko-talking.c): Oct 19 15:57:01 openmoko: * src/moko-talking.c: (moko_talking_incoming_call), Oct 19 15:57:01 openmoko: (moko_talking_outgoing_call), (moko_talking_accepted_call): Use Oct 19 15:57:01 openmoko: show_all when showing the toolbars Oct 19 15:57:13 with any luck that will fix the dialer toolbars Oct 19 15:57:39 abraxa_: well, it makes your application useless without that theme for a start Oct 19 15:57:58 what's x-moto? Oct 19 15:58:09 mickey|away: motorbike game Oct 19 15:58:22 ah Oct 19 15:58:32 probably not Oct 19 15:58:48 sdl? Oct 19 15:59:05 no Oct 19 15:59:12 opengl Oct 19 15:59:16 OH Oct 19 15:59:19 (I think) Oct 19 15:59:20 that's toug Oct 19 15:59:25 yeah, I know Oct 19 16:00:04 thos: Yeah, which is a bummer for me also. Oct 19 16:01:53 abraxa_: so I would suggest either you compromise on the visual style, or you draw it yourself Oct 19 16:02:00 abraxa_: i mean, how important are the drop shadows? Oct 19 16:02:13 mickey|tw: If, by chance, you discover any information on the future of certain key openmoko components during your meetings, can you pass along some hints? Specifically, I'd like to hack about on gmsd as it exists today, but it would be wasted effort if it will replaced shortly. Oct 19 16:02:39 mwester: gsmd will not be replaced shortly, please continue to hack on it Oct 19 16:02:56 yes, i'll try to pass on everythin that's settled Oct 19 16:03:05 Ah, ok. Then the rumors of a dbus-based replacement are pure optimism :) Oct 19 16:03:21 thos: It's not about them in particular - the problem is that I need visual elements not included in any standard GTK theme. Sure, I could put them somewhere theme-independent but that would make it look out-of-place with other themes... I'm torn. Oct 19 16:03:56 mwester: http://dominion.kabel.utwente.nl/koen/cms/unbreaking-openmoko Oct 19 16:03:56 mwester: no. dbus won't shortly replace gsmd, but complement it. Oct 19 16:04:41 abraxa_: yeah, you have to choose one way or the other ;-) Oct 19 16:04:48 as long as gsmd sucks, gsmd-dbus will suck as well Oct 19 16:04:52 so we're bound to fix it at the heart Oct 19 16:04:53 hehe! Oct 19 16:05:04 abraxa_: I would be willing to add small bits of generic styling that will help you though Oct 19 16:05:04 * mickey|tw brabbles about synchronouse modem-taling Oct 19 16:05:06 talking, even Oct 19 16:06:52 mickey|tw: What is your feeling on the likely response to moving the in-kernel GSM modem enable/disable code into the serial driver itself? Waste of time, or something that might be considered this late in the development? Oct 19 16:07:35 * mwester has observed that the various patches for this code have numerous connections into the serial driver already... Oct 19 16:07:42 mwester: well, since the problem only affects gta01, i think it may be worth to consider. the final say have the kernel developers tough Oct 19 16:07:44 though Oct 19 16:08:21 Ok, fair enough. Again, I'm just trying to figure out what's worth the effort and what would be a huge waste of time :) Oct 19 16:09:14 i think everything that benefits thousands of gta01 users will be worht it Oct 19 16:09:24 (yes, only few thousand, but anyways) Oct 19 16:09:47 as is the release of the oabi-gllin. we only gain renewed trust from it ;) Oct 19 16:09:51 still a few thousand units, that's good Oct 19 16:10:03 well they could be the 1000 most loyal customers if treated right :-) Oct 19 16:10:08 right Oct 19 16:11:44 mickey|tw: BTW can you can toolchain to build without disabling insane? Oct 19 16:12:17 XorA: meta-toolchain-openmoko you mean? Oct 19 16:12:30 XorA: yes Oct 19 16:12:35 XorA: Builds fine for me on the office pc Oct 19 16:13:04 doesnt build here :-( Oct 19 16:13:38 darn. so much for predictability Oct 19 16:13:45 how does it bail out? Oct 19 16:13:55 .debug dirs in non debug packages Oct 19 16:14:03 whew Oct 19 16:14:05 odd Oct 19 16:14:07 mickey|away: quite a few people on #oe fell over same thing Oct 19 16:15:01 ok, might be interesting to compare build logs / tarball contents Oct 19 16:15:09 stefan_schmidt: can you put yours up? Oct 19 16:15:15 * mickey|tw not quite at home Oct 19 16:16:15 mickey|tw: I turned it off as I left the office. On monday or perhaps sunday I can Oct 19 16:16:32 good Oct 19 16:20:26 stefan_schmidt: btw., libmokopanelui2-0.3.0+svnr3226 is a new take at proper scaling applets in qvga. might try when you have a chance Oct 19 16:20:45 or alphaone Oct 19 16:20:48 mickey|tw: ok Oct 19 16:20:57 huh, what? Oct 19 16:21:06 ah, okay Oct 19 16:21:28 no need to reinstall the plugins, library update should be enough (if it works at all) Oct 19 16:21:29 Will do once I get openezx running on my motorazr2 ;-) Oct 19 16:21:39 heh Oct 19 16:21:41 that can take a while Oct 19 16:25:02 mickey|tw: normally he just needs 5 minutes for such stuff Oct 19 16:28:00 cu XorA|gone Oct 19 16:35:57 thos: Yeah, I would sincerely appreciate that. The progress bar theming seems easy enough to do, so I'll try to find some time soon and submit you a patch. Would that be okay with you? Oct 19 16:44:29 abraxa_: yeah the progress bar looks fine Oct 19 16:44:40 abraxa_: it probably just needs a patch to gtkrc Oct 19 16:56:52 Yoink! Oct 19 16:57:20 * mwester laughs after stomping on that cat's tail. Oct 19 16:59:41 * ScaredyCat points at the 45 GB of downloads from my site Oct 19 17:00:02 not bad :) Oct 19 17:00:21 buildhost is down, you're the next most likely place to get working stuff, I guess. Oct 19 17:00:27 hehe Oct 19 17:01:48 I hope you're not paying bandwidth fees on that... Oct 19 17:01:53 buildhost has defictive ram afaik.. its beeing worked on Oct 19 17:01:58 -e Oct 19 17:02:18 * cb22 munches on some ram cookies Oct 19 17:02:20 ;) Isn't most RAM manufactured right there in tw? Oct 19 17:03:15 dunno. thats just a rented box at a german mass-hoster Oct 19 17:03:35 Ah, there's the problem then -- you can't just walk up to it and fix it. :( Oct 19 17:03:36 so its not our call to put in new ram. we call them and they do the dirty work Oct 19 17:03:50 the dirty work is the fun work Oct 19 17:04:02 * mwester has done the dirty work, it's not fun at all! Oct 19 17:04:06 cb22 not really. would me more work if we did hosting ourselves Oct 19 17:04:15 mwester, its fun to do it a few times Oct 19 17:04:20 not for a job :) Oct 19 17:04:37 like when i'm bored i always end up ripping apart my 'servers' Oct 19 17:04:37 in taiwan or berlin its not that easy to find fat pipes and good prices when it comes to hosting Oct 19 17:04:54 Ah, ok. Yeah, it kinda sucks as a job. The only time your phone rings is when something is broken, nobody ever calls the admin guys to say things are great. Oct 19 17:05:15 in south africa our datacenters probably have slower conenctions then your adsl... Oct 19 17:05:35 mwester, too true Oct 19 17:05:41 well.. i'm off now. friends instead of servers and mail ;=). have fun.. bbl Oct 19 17:06:25 friends? Oct 19 17:08:22 yeah, what're those? Oct 19 17:14:59 * cb22 makes a vague reference to some xkcd comic Oct 19 17:16:01 openmoko: 03chris * r3229 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/libraries/libmokoui2/ (ChangeLog libmokoui/moko-finger-scroll.c): Oct 19 17:16:01 openmoko: * libmokoui/moko-finger-scroll.c: Oct 19 17:16:01 openmoko: (moko_finger_scroll_motion_notify_cb): Oct 19 17:16:01 openmoko: Don't call gtk_widget_get_pointer too early Oct 19 17:17:28 specifically, http://xkcd.com/306/ Oct 19 17:50:21 Available machine support: Oct 19 17:50:21 ID (hex) NAME Oct 19 17:50:21 000000f5 Intel IXDP425 Development Platform Oct 19 17:50:37 oops wrong channel Oct 19 18:04:40 o-hand.com friends around? svn: Kann 'http://svn.o-hand.com/repos/matchbox/trunk/libfakekey' in Revision 1 nicht im Projektarchiv finden Oct 19 18:06:20 fgau: Last commit fixed it imho Oct 19 18:06:24 SRCREV_pn-libfakekey ?= "1455 Oct 19 18:06:35 in sane-srcrev Oct 19 18:08:32 fgau: Yeah, it's working for me now Oct 19 18:09:12 alphaone: cool, let me try Oct 19 18:14:01 * * OM Bug 949 has been created by koen(AT)openembedded.org Oct 19 18:14:02 * * openmoko-dialer2 r3228 can't accept incoming calls Oct 19 18:14:03 * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=949 Oct 19 18:15:15 alphaone: for me too, thx, danke! :) Oct 19 18:15:23 np Oct 19 18:15:33 I'm gonna go to bed now night Oct 19 18:15:54 gn8 Oct 19 18:17:57 nite alphaone Oct 19 18:41:28 Anybody else using libboost? Oct 19 18:59:11 does anybody else hear lots of noise when using the headphones and touching the 2.5mm jack? Oct 19 18:59:28 should there be a hardware bug be filed? Oct 19 19:15:22 Anyone here living in Henderson by chance? Oct 19 19:15:40 If I was living in Henderson it would be by intention, I suspect. Oct 19 19:15:56 nelson: Hehe Oct 19 19:15:59 Heh ;) Oct 19 19:16:01 does anyone know how to get the caller id when I get a RING with cu ? Oct 19 19:17:02 matsimoto: if the AT command set is anything like the ZyXEL set, you need to turn it on using a particular AT command. Oct 19 19:17:25 Otherwise if it was turned on by default, you'd get nonstandard RING 1-123-456-7890 Oct 19 19:17:58 That's a cheap way of answering your question by giving you irrelevant information which SEEMS to be helpful, but which is actually useless. Oct 19 19:18:11 nelson: do you have a hint for me ? I tried extended ring codes with at+crc=1 but I only get +CRING: VOICE :( Oct 19 19:18:36 hehe, but sounds good ;) Oct 19 19:18:42 haha Oct 19 19:18:47 just had to be done :) Oct 19 19:18:59 * ScaredyCat goes for food Oct 19 19:19:34 matsimoto: no, everybody extends the AT command set in their own unique, creative way. Oct 19 19:20:24 thats what is so beautiful about standards Oct 19 19:21:03 ja Oct 19 19:21:05 have a look at my profile on the wiki for at cmd stuff Oct 19 19:24:32 matsimoto, maybe its a private number? Oct 19 19:25:19 cb22: no, I checked it against my other mobile. Oct 19 19:25:58 ScaredyCat: Shame on me :-[ what do you mean with "my profile" ? Oct 19 19:27:55 matsimoto: I guess in the wiki Oct 19 19:31:44 ScaredyCat: Not much info here: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/User:ScaredyCat Oct 19 19:31:51 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Hardware:AT_Commands Oct 19 19:32:02 CM: discussion page Oct 19 19:33:14 hmm, looks like http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Hardware:AT_Commands does not contain the caller id. Oct 19 19:35:19 ah tricky in the discussion tab of ScaredyCat are at command description at+clip sounds promising Oct 19 19:36:18 yepp that works at+clip=1 gives me tha data I need. Thanx a lot ! Oct 19 19:45:29 AT+CVIB=? gives me EXT: I and ERROR ? Anyone who get : +CVIB: (0-1,16) as mentioned in the wiki ? Oct 19 19:52:18 sorry was eating Oct 19 19:52:20 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/User_talk:ScaredyCat Oct 19 20:36:18 ...and the channel dies again. Oct 19 20:36:28 abraxa_: Its friday evening Oct 19 20:36:37 :P Oct 19 20:36:45 Back from town? Oct 19 20:37:14 Yes, some beers and pizza later ;) Oct 19 20:37:21 * CM feels a bit unhealthy Oct 19 20:38:06 lol Oct 19 20:40:29 anyone know anything about ruby ? Oct 19 20:40:39 A bit.. Oct 19 20:40:50 * CM has played around with rails some Oct 19 20:40:56 gem install -y ruby-opengl Oct 19 20:41:25 just give "Could not find ruby-opengl (> 0) in any repository" Oct 19 20:41:36 at which point I'm stuck Oct 19 20:42:11 Hmm.. I'll try here and see what it says Oct 19 20:46:16 ScaredyCat: Installed fine here, but that was using portage Oct 19 20:48:28 -r on the end seemed to fix Oct 19 20:48:30 it Oct 19 20:54:13 schweet!!! Oct 19 20:54:27 what? Oct 19 20:54:59 someone have some battery problem? Oct 19 20:56:18 vciaglia: The Neo powering down at random? Oct 19 20:56:38 vciaglia: Not me, but I have heard 2-3 people talking about that Oct 19 20:57:02 CM: yep, and now i can't powerup my neo. I have to remove the battery for other 10 hours and recharge it for other 10 hours Oct 19 20:57:13 10 may be a bit much Oct 19 20:57:21 1 is usually plenty Oct 19 20:57:38 and 2 hours charging or so. Oct 19 20:58:24 gamin: just saw your message about lot's of noise with the headset and 2.5mm jack. I get that also. Makes headset unusable. Oct 19 20:58:43 SpeedEvil: what's the life of the battery? 5 or 6 hours like Qtopia? Oct 19 20:59:02 CM: http://fudgie.org/ Oct 19 20:59:05 via: it supports suspend mode - which is about 12 hours. Oct 19 20:59:17 But P< is basically unimplemented. Oct 19 20:59:18 PM Oct 19 21:00:02 SpeedEvil: i see Oct 19 21:03:40 hello Oct 19 21:05:15 bongiorno Oct 19 21:05:28 :) Oct 19 21:05:44 tutti italiani qui :) Oct 19 21:06:03 yes :) Oct 19 21:08:01 ciao Oct 19 21:08:10 ^^ thats my italian :) Oct 19 21:08:18 cb22, cheater :) Oct 19 21:08:30 hehe Oct 19 21:08:35 my parents are italian Oct 19 21:08:39 i'm learning Oct 19 21:08:53 really? nice. from where? Oct 19 21:09:03 dads from verona and moms from bergamo Oct 19 21:09:08 i was born in south africa Oct 19 21:09:20 cb22: not bad... the first one who doesn't say "pizza,spaghetti and mandolino" :) Oct 19 21:09:38 :) Oct 19 21:10:13 cb22, moved there for work I guess? Oct 19 21:10:20 yep Oct 19 21:10:49 did you ever come to italy? Oct 19 21:11:02 yep, twice Oct 19 21:11:06 going again in july Oct 19 21:11:22 to verona or bergamo? Oct 19 21:11:33 verona, for my brothers wedding Oct 19 21:11:54 do you like it? Oct 19 21:11:59 italy, I mean Oct 19 21:12:00 yeah, its cool there Oct 19 21:12:19 :) Oct 19 21:12:31 also have cousins there my own age who understand english, so its not as if im lost :) Oct 19 21:12:35 <--- 16 Oct 19 21:12:56 and i understand most of italian... but speaking, well, i suck at that Oct 19 21:13:12 great! you're good then Oct 19 21:13:30 grande ;] Oct 19 21:13:32 italian is a pretty difficult language to learn (others say) Oct 19 21:13:54 i'm finding the grammer easy, but i suck at vocab Oct 19 21:14:01 the rest in my class find it the other way around Oct 19 21:14:20 are you studying at school? Oct 19 21:14:31 not at my school, nope Oct 19 21:14:42 oh a private class Oct 19 21:14:44 yep Oct 19 21:15:11 but i tend to suck at content subjects (history, etc) but do well in thinking subjects like science or so Oct 19 21:15:39 the same I did :) Oct 19 21:16:45 what language do you talk at home? Oct 19 21:16:58 do your parents talk in italian between them? Oct 19 21:17:07 yeah Oct 19 21:17:11 and they speak it to me Oct 19 21:17:15 but i reply in english Oct 19 21:17:31 where abouts are you from? Oct 19 21:18:30 I live near Florence Oct 19 21:18:43 maremma! :9 Oct 19 21:19:22 cb22, you should start answering them in italian. that will let you learn fast Oct 19 21:19:46 vciaglia, not maremma. I live both in Pisa and near Siena Oct 19 21:19:59 Ghiottone: i like too much Pisa. Oct 19 21:20:21 Ghiottone: but i also like where i'm now and where i was born :) Oct 19 21:20:33 vciaglia, and where is that? Oct 19 21:20:39 Ghiottone, i'm starting Oct 19 21:20:44 now atleast i know some tenses Oct 19 21:20:59 cb22, great! :) Oct 19 21:21:09 Ghiottone: not far from Naples and very near to Salerno. Oct 19 21:21:24 Ghiottone, are there quite a few people in italy with neo's? Oct 19 21:21:41 cb22, I think we are in four or five Oct 19 21:21:54 better then one in SA Oct 19 21:21:57 debug boards? :) Oct 19 21:22:04 at least that is the estimate number from before the last shipment Oct 19 21:22:21 cb22: one or two (still my guess) Oct 19 21:22:34 I don't have Oct 19 21:22:50 lucky, if you brick yours you could catch a train or something :) Oct 19 21:23:10 if i had 2 catch a train i would be shot several times in the back, before being robbed Oct 19 21:23:27 is that the situation in SA? Oct 19 21:23:39 someone tested the latest openmoko-devel-image? I mean the 19 October one. What are the improvements? Oct 19 21:23:54 well, a little bit of an exageration :) Oct 19 21:23:57 but round about there Oct 19 21:24:27 oh, and yes. Oct 19 21:24:43 our ex-deputy president thinks showers cure aids Oct 19 21:24:52 and our health minister believes in potatoes as a cure Oct 19 21:25:04 and is a drunk, lier and thief Oct 19 21:25:04 and is suing the media Oct 19 21:25:23 *go figure* Oct 19 21:25:26 cb22, oh wow Oct 19 21:25:44 yet we are still in the rugby world cup finals... go bokke! Oct 19 21:25:51 eheh Oct 19 21:26:04 england are going down Oct 19 21:26:04 an excellent rugby team :) Oct 19 21:26:15 vciaglia, you were in the group seeking some project for their PhD thesis weren't you? Oct 19 21:27:24 Ghiottone: umh no... i'm just an undergraduate CS student :) Oct 19 21:27:40 vciaglia, which type of CS? Oct 19 21:27:52 oh sorry. I must have misread some email then Oct 19 21:28:16 here CS could be information systems or things like ASM programming Oct 19 21:28:17 cb: Computer Science, Computer Networks field Oct 19 21:28:29 nice Oct 19 21:28:38 i'm still figuring out what to study at university Oct 19 21:28:52 only 2 more years of school left for me Oct 19 21:28:53 * univac too Oct 19 21:28:56 languages? :) Oct 19 21:29:07 hehe Oct 19 21:29:12 something in computers... Oct 19 21:29:18 but i dont quite know what yet Oct 19 21:29:37 my father did the wrong thing of buying a computer when I was 12... Oct 19 21:29:43 ok, it's time to reflash with the latest image! :) Oct 19 21:29:46 heh Oct 19 21:30:22 Ghiottone: heh, i was 7 or 8 maybe but i don't know your epoch :) Oct 19 21:30:23 cant wait for a neo Oct 19 21:30:28 anything is more stable then this p990 Oct 19 21:30:34 cb22, in my university you could choose what to specialize on at the third year and could change it each next year if you wanted Oct 19 21:30:54 yeah, here you choose after your first year Oct 19 21:31:25 vciaglia, you were really young! Oct 19 21:31:31 Ghiottone: what are you studying? Oct 19 21:31:37 * cb22 remembers playing on a pc at like 5 Oct 19 21:31:44 I did CS in Pisa Oct 19 21:31:44 how old are all of you? Oct 19 21:31:52 I'm 31 Oct 19 21:32:05 25 Oct 19 21:32:19 * cb22 wonders if he could claim 'youngest in the channel' Oct 19 21:32:25 Ghiottone: yep, it was one of the first 80286. But i had a commodore and an amiga too :) Oct 19 21:32:26 but i'm probably getting too old for that Oct 19 21:32:27 * univac 17 ;[ Oct 19 21:32:31 16 :) Oct 19 21:32:40 nah :P Oct 19 21:32:44 cb22: only if you have a big net, and a favourable legal system. Oct 19 21:33:01 eheh Oct 19 21:33:02 nothing money cant buy.... Oct 19 21:33:27 vciaglia, the 80286 has been my second computer. I even bought it a math coprocessor! Oct 19 21:33:46 very nice Ghiottone :) Oct 19 21:33:55 I don't think I ever did that. Oct 19 21:34:08 (copro chips) Oct 19 21:34:11 yeah, if the neo doesnt have one :) Oct 19 21:35:01 is the lack of a FPU a big issue? Oct 19 21:36:00 SpeedEvil, it was the only thing I could buy for it... those where unupgradable pcs Oct 19 21:36:24 cb22: a FPU/MMX/DSP would be nice. Oct 19 21:36:34 indeed Oct 19 21:36:38 my old ipaq had a DSP Oct 19 21:36:43 * SpeedEvil has a soldering iron. Oct 19 21:36:46 hacking that was interesting Oct 19 21:36:49 :) Oct 19 21:37:02 * SpeedEvil remembers soldering together random DIP DRAM chips to make 1M SIPs, with wire-wrap wire. Oct 19 21:37:08 didnt get much except basic dsp-gateway stuff working though Oct 19 21:37:25 *sigh* history Oct 19 21:37:49 wow Oct 19 21:37:58 I never learned to use a soldering iron Oct 19 21:37:59 * cb22 wondered when it was common for PCs to start having 128mb or more ram Oct 19 21:38:10 cb22: 93? Oct 19 21:38:38 SpeedEvil, that long ago? Oct 19 21:38:40 doubt it Oct 19 21:38:40 Probably later. Oct 19 21:38:44 maybe 95. Oct 19 21:38:56 98 Oct 19 21:39:07 i had a top of the range sony vaio, ultra thin, 150mhz processor, 128mb ram Oct 19 21:39:08 from 99 Oct 19 21:39:47 Ignore me. Oct 19 21:39:57 I suck at history. Oct 19 21:40:21 good thing this isnt #history Oct 19 21:40:31 At least actual specific timelines. Oct 19 21:40:41 but it is #openmoko, where you make really useful contributions :) Oct 19 21:41:11 in 97, my 100MHz something came with 64 MB of RAM Oct 19 21:41:14 win95 page on wikipedia sasys official minimum was 4M Oct 19 21:41:36 guess nothings changed between then and vista Oct 19 21:41:41 microsoft still underquoting Oct 19 21:41:55 4m .. hoo boy Oct 19 21:41:56 my 80286 was a very strange computer. it had 5MB ram Oct 19 21:42:07 not that strance Oct 19 21:42:10 i tended to like pcs with weird amounts of ram Oct 19 21:42:15 1m conventional + 4m extended? Oct 19 21:42:22 anrp, yes Oct 19 21:42:45 I played around a lot with EMM, XMS and such Oct 19 21:42:59 * SpeedEvil remembers getting a 16M SIMM just bouncing around in a cardboard box with other heavy stuff. (reams of paper, ... Oct 19 21:43:01 Stacker's time, also Oct 19 21:43:09 $800 or so at the time. Oct 19 21:43:16 wow Oct 19 21:43:24 do you still have it, SpeedEvil? Oct 19 21:43:59 Probably not. Oct 19 21:44:45 Actually, certainly not, that box got sold. Oct 19 21:45:50 I think I got rid of the box that needed a SIMM Oct 19 21:46:06 I still have a (probably) booting 386/20 board. Oct 19 21:46:17 I bought it way back for an audio server. Oct 19 21:46:31 can it decode mp3s? Oct 19 21:46:59 Yes. Oct 19 21:47:07 I'd guess at maybe 5% speed. Oct 19 21:47:30 Actually - it shouldn't be that bad. Oct 19 21:47:33 More like 10% Oct 19 21:48:09 well, the latest devel-image isn't booting on my neo :/ Oct 19 21:50:57 * cb22 still has SIMMS! Oct 19 21:56:24 moin Oct 19 21:56:40 * hhf423 does the flashing dance Oct 19 21:56:50 hey hhf423 Oct 19 21:57:42 hi Ghiottone Oct 19 21:57:47 whats news? Oct 19 21:57:47 vciaglia, did you flash the kernel too? Oct 19 21:57:57 Aaah! A flasher! Oct 19 21:57:59 ;P Oct 19 21:58:12 Ghiottone: just rebooted and now it works fine with Pin Request too :) Oct 19 21:58:44 hhf423, working on some more packaging :) Oct 19 21:58:55 vciaglia, great then! what was the problem? Oct 19 21:59:06 Ghiottone: dunno :) Oct 19 21:59:37 Ghiottone: packaging updates to smstool and such or something new? Oct 19 21:59:38 it sounds interesting the latest qtopia snapshot too. So amazing that neo...i'm feeling in love :) Oct 19 22:00:03 vciaglia: are there any significant changes in qtopia? Oct 19 22:00:28 hhf423: i think there are improvements in audio switching while making calls Oct 19 22:01:04 vciaglia: ah, that would be good, have to try that when I have looked at the 071019 image of openmoko Oct 19 22:01:21 hhf423, I have not checked for updates from chris. are there any? I'm working on a java virtual machine Oct 19 22:01:23 * hhf423 is done flashing, boots Oct 19 22:01:39 Ghiottone: just back from a trip, have not checked Oct 19 22:02:37 looks like harald will actually work on neo software once he is back to berlin? I hope this will include gsmd :-) Oct 19 22:03:24 * hhf423 is very tired Oct 19 22:03:30 I thought harald was more a kernel dev, but I may be wrong Oct 19 22:04:03 gsmd is made by harald Oct 19 22:04:04 Ghiottone: yes, but it looks like he does the things which need to be done and gsmd needs to be done :-) Oct 19 22:05:08 wow, I get asked for PIN and it registers with network and the top menu bar is there right on the first boot Oct 19 22:06:17 sometimes the topbars is not showed, why? Oct 19 22:06:22 *top bar Oct 19 22:06:40 vciaglia: unclear. probably a timing issue with gsmd etc Oct 19 22:06:56 oooh, the missing calls count works Oct 19 22:07:16 The battery applet seems to crash the top bar rather often, removing that applet makes it work for me. Oct 19 22:07:21 oh great! hopely we'll have a working gsmd soon! Oct 19 22:07:38 hhf423, is a qtopia or openmoko flash Oct 19 22:08:18 seems that qtopia can receive sms and manage better the gsmd. Right? Oct 19 22:08:27 Ghiottone: I am talking abiout the 07-10-19 OM flash image Oct 19 22:08:32 from ScaredyCat Oct 19 22:11:19 then again, why would the battery app kill the top bar? Oct 19 22:11:58 ok, this looks like it has improved a bit over the last week, but maybe its just random :-) let me flash the latest qtopia Oct 19 22:16:03 is it guaranteed not to work if you flash a smaller sized rootfs to the neo than what it currently has or is it just a possibility? Oct 19 22:19:12 oh, there is progress on GPS, great... Oct 19 22:19:31 on qtopia? what kind of progress? Oct 19 22:19:53 oh, no. just in general, see the community mailing list Oct 19 22:20:01 * hhf423 is catching up on the community ml Oct 19 22:20:20 oh the news that license issues have been solved and the chroot workarounded Oct 19 22:20:43 si2: what is the I2C chip? Oct 19 22:20:46 oops Oct 19 22:21:01 chroot workarounded? Oct 19 22:23:38 hhf423, yes the oabi chroot for gllin Oct 19 22:24:00 hhf423, this workaround has been reported to be working Oct 19 22:24:04 Ghiottone: i tried to get this to work a while back, but was not able to Oct 19 22:24:18 hhf423, probably it will be distributed in that form Oct 19 22:24:38 hhf423, as for gta02 the have choosed another gps chip which is more open source friendly Oct 19 22:25:01 yes, that I understand Oct 19 22:25:57 the program I'm trying to package requires header for the qte package Oct 19 22:26:10 I added it to the DEPENDS variable Oct 19 22:26:19 but include files are still not found Oct 19 22:26:22 any suggestion? Oct 19 22:33:57 anyone can help? Oct 19 22:34:18 oh: http://www.fluffyspider.com/resources/press/pr.20070925.0.html Oct 19 22:34:25 Ghiottone: no idea, sorry Oct 19 22:36:33 what is that? virtualization technology?? Oct 19 22:38:38 Yes Oct 19 22:39:58 as in kvm and vmware or in java virtual machine? Oct 19 22:40:45 do they provide images? Oct 19 22:41:02 anyways, I just dropped them a mail. maybe we can get an image to flash Oct 19 22:48:26 if i can't wait for the openmoko, can anyone recommend a good blue tooth enabled phone that would work as an internet gateway for my laptop, on the train? Oct 19 22:48:42 ok, will go to sleep now Oct 19 22:49:23 superbnerb: just get yourself a sony ericsson k610i, which goes for less than 150 EUR and can do UMTS, GPRS and BT etc. Oct 19 22:49:56 its a good "in between phones" phone Oct 19 22:50:13 * ewon has an ultra-high tech nokia 6310i Oct 19 22:50:40 superbnerb: Or a w610, they're nice too :-) Oct 19 22:51:18 I'm going to bed too. nite all Oct 19 22:51:20 w610 costs 30 eur more, k610 can be had for 135 EUR in germany Oct 19 22:51:26 Night Oct 19 22:51:34 good nite, too, from me. over and out Oct 19 23:57:41 i'm going to investigate these phones here in canada. thanks CM Oct 20 01:24:58 openmoko: 03abraxa * r3230 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-mediaplayer2/ (TODO src/editor_page.c src/main_page.c): Oct 20 01:24:58 openmoko: Add gesture recognition (up/down=volume; left/right=ffwd/rew; stroke+hold=repeat) Oct 20 01:24:58 openmoko: Fix bug #893 by changing color for "Add Playlist" button label Oct 20 01:48:09 morning Oct 20 01:48:44 Good morning ;) Oct 20 01:48:50 morning Oct 20 01:49:08 morning Oct 20 01:52:28 * mickey|tw slowly feeling human again Oct 20 01:52:32 sleep is something wonderful Oct 20 02:04:47 Yup, and it's my turn to get some now. Damn time zones :) Oct 20 02:05:03 heh, sleep well Oct 20 02:05:22 I sure will, and you have a good breakfast and a nice day ;3 Oct 20 02:05:27 thanks :) **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat Oct 20 02:59:56 2007