**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Oct 30 02:59:56 2007 Oct 30 03:21:12 morning Oct 30 03:21:15 or rather Oct 30 03:21:17 Zao an! Oct 30 03:21:34 :) Greetings, good sir. Oct 30 03:22:18 mwester-laptop: as for 351, please go ahead and add that to 2.6.22.5 in OE Oct 30 03:22:33 and -devel, if you have a chance Oct 30 03:29:40 Any thouights on apparmor in openmoko? If there was a gtk based gui to configure it how hard would it be to port to mokoui? Would mono be too much overhead for the mobile devices, and if so would perl be a good alternative. Oct 30 03:30:10 i know, lots of questions so little point. Oct 30 03:30:19 no idea Oct 30 03:30:24 mickey-tw: did you see the change needed to qemu env file for the change in kernel suffix? Oct 30 03:30:38 unlikely that it will be done by the core Oct 30 03:30:43 but patches accepted... :) Oct 30 03:30:44 mickey-tw: http://pastebin.ca/750171 Oct 30 03:32:46 I ask because I am working on a gtk apparmor management suite, and I have recently been thinking that doing it in C# may be less portable than somethinmg like perl. I assume that apparmor would work just fine on openmoko, it is running a linux kernel after all. Oct 30 03:33:27 i guess it would Oct 30 03:33:37 but as i said Oct 30 03:33:40 you want it... Oct 30 03:33:41 openmoko: 03mickey * r3304 10/trunk/src/host/qemu-neo1973/openmoko/env: qemu-neo1973: catch up openmoko environment with the new kernel suffix Oct 30 03:33:43 patches accepted Oct 30 03:33:44 :) Oct 30 03:34:26 mickey-tw: thx Oct 30 03:34:40 np Oct 30 03:36:19 openmoko: 03rwhitby * r165 10mokomakefile/trunk/Makefile: Catch up qemu flash target with new kernel suffix Oct 30 03:38:47 I noticed that mokoui depended on gtk. does that mean that gtk apps will work as is? If I get the phone, and I may, I will get apparmor running on it and profile the entry points. As far as getting the GUI management software running on it, that depends on how similar gtk is to mokoui, and if the mobile devices will run perl or mono programs (i am sure they will run perl, but I haven't decided to switch to perl yet. All of my Oct 30 03:39:17 etteyafed: hmm, gtk binds great to python and I'd wage a guess that python would be more common on openmoko devices than mono, for the time being Oct 30 03:39:19 yes Oct 30 03:39:23 gtk apps should work Oct 30 03:39:25 note Oct 30 03:39:31 you will need big fonts Oct 30 03:39:37 and only have a small screen Oct 30 03:39:40 1 moue button Oct 30 03:39:43 etc. etc. Oct 30 03:40:09 you are of course best off with c/c++ for a gui app Oct 30 03:40:13 if you are thinking of support Oct 30 03:40:43 but as Henryk said - python is going to be a better bet than C# Oct 30 03:41:01 In theory, theory and practice are the same. In practice, not so much. I've had bless (a gtk# sharp hex editor) running on my neo with mono once. Did run, but was completely useless because the interface did not fit on 640x480 Oct 30 03:41:20 that is not big issue. I will have context sensitive menus, but those options will be available by other means. Well C/C++ is not an option for my pruposes. I want the mgmt app to be cross platform. It has ground up remote management features. Oct 30 03:41:45 raster: mentioning C and GUI and "best off" in the same sentence is kind of strange Oct 30 03:41:51 I was thinking perl but python is an option also i suppose. Oct 30 03:41:56 how does c/c+= not make it cross platform? Oct 30 03:42:13 Henryk: when it comesto api/on-phone existing support Oct 30 03:42:21 you WILL have libgtk.so.... Oct 30 03:42:36 having a whole python interpreter and bindings is less likely Oct 30 03:42:40 as it is with C# Oct 30 03:42:42 etc. Oct 30 03:43:00 C is not nearly as cross-compat as python/perl/mono Oct 30 03:43:03 i am not talking about the internals of the app Oct 30 03:43:22 etteyafed: that is wrong. Oct 30 03:43:26 really wrong Oct 30 03:43:37 i've written 100,000 Oct 30 03:43:40 i am talking OSX Win32 Linux etc support and no it is NOT wrong Oct 30 03:43:41 i've written 100,000's of lines of c Oct 30 03:43:42 yes, we need more flash. mono with .net 1 and mono with .net 2 are each about 15 Megs for the core libraries Oct 30 03:43:48 and all of it works on many architectures Oct 30 03:43:51 with little effort Oct 30 03:44:18 etteyafed: yuou are talking about an apparmor gui Oct 30 03:44:20 I don't want to need to compile 3 or more different versions and change things for each one Oct 30 03:44:24 apparmor last i knew was.... linux Oct 30 03:44:32 so you have 1 os to worry about Oct 30 03:44:36 yeah and it can manage apparmor remotely Oct 30 03:44:43 is c++ bindings included by default? Oct 30 03:44:48 so it can do it from linux Oct 30 03:44:51 or windows Oct 30 03:45:00 ianj: c is directly available from c++ - so moot point :) Oct 30 03:45:04 or anything Oct 30 03:45:14 app_armor_ + remote = wtf? Oct 30 03:45:19 etteyafed: well the more os support you want -the fatter your base requirements Oct 30 03:45:20 raster, oh hehe, im a noob. so i can write c++ apps no worries then? Oct 30 03:45:29 and so the less likely it is that it will be "already on the phone" Oct 30 03:45:35 ianj: of course. Oct 30 03:45:36 well it is quite usefull in a server env with sever hundred servers Oct 30 03:46:00 ianj: all c libraries are directly available from c++ (well as long as the authors remember to put in their extern "C" {} bits) Oct 30 03:46:09 etteyafed: but not for a phone Oct 30 03:46:29 thanks raster Oct 30 03:46:44 ianj: you call the c functions like you call any functions in c- you just do it in c++ Oct 30 03:46:45 Well the remote features are not important on the phone REALLY, but the app is not just for a phone. Oct 30 03:46:50 it isnt "c+++"-like Oct 30 03:46:55 ie no c++ objects Oct 30 03:46:58 and c+= constructs Oct 30 03:47:01 and I would not want to rewrite it for the phone Oct 30 03:47:02 etteyafed: conclusion: if you want to do it right _now_ then I would recommend python (there's a blocker bug in mono on arm for all non-trivial operations) Oct 30 03:47:08 its just calling c functions Oct 30 03:47:18 i see Oct 30 03:48:10 raster: Actually you could manage your servers and get status and updates on your phone while out of the office Oct 30 03:48:25 and that might be usefull in some situations Oct 30 03:48:26 possibly Oct 30 03:48:27 BUT Oct 30 03:48:33 a gui for a phonewith a 2.8" screen Oct 30 03:48:41 is a very different beast to a desktop gui app Oct 30 03:48:44 trust me Oct 30 03:48:53 you invariably need to make a desktop ui very small and compact Oct 30 03:48:53 I know, there are serious limits to what can be done Oct 30 03:48:55 we trust you on that one :D Oct 30 03:48:56 or Oct 30 03:49:00 do a new gui for a phone Oct 30 03:49:18 the dream of "1 app for all" is not so easy Oct 30 03:49:18 So how close are they to being on target with this? Oct 30 - GTA02v4 design produced, and shipped to qualified developers. Oct 30 03:49:24 well, if you want to do remote management ... rdesktop. I've already used it and it even fits the windows start menu on the neo screen Oct 30 03:49:24 hey, talking! :) Oct 30 03:49:49 lol Oct 30 03:49:49 Henryk: yhats crazy talk! Oct 30 03:49:53 :) Oct 30 03:50:02 I was thinking of having a compact mode and a full mode for the gui. That way, for simple tasks the whole thing won't be in your face Oct 30 03:50:27 etteyafed: that makes sense Oct 30 03:51:38 Henryk: The app is for managing multiple systems at a time and a certain part of those systems, not like rdesktop Oct 30 03:52:38 Is there that python is mentioned as the beest way as opposed to perl? Oct 30 03:53:28 or is python just the more common option for Openmoko Oct 30 03:54:32 there a reason* Oct 30 03:55:31 etteyafed: everyone of us loves python, especially the core developers, so it's the most likely language for standard inclusion Oct 30 03:55:46 and: there are already bindings. they even work. Oct 30 03:56:15 isn't python easier for beginners to learn, too? ;) Oct 30 03:57:01 IMHO there is really very little difference in python and perl for MOST tasks, even UI oriented. Oct 30 03:57:18 except of course for the line noise Oct 30 03:57:20 I didn't think one was any easier than the other Oct 30 03:58:23 they are both pretty simple, although CPAN is a great plus for perl Oct 30 03:58:32 perl is more capable of being incredibly ugly :) Oct 30 03:59:06 yeah but that is the coders fault and only made better in py by the strict formatting Oct 30 03:59:45 and that can be a bother at times if you are used to C Oct 30 04:00:12 python has a rather strict "don't guess" policy and no idiosyncratic constructions like "hmm, all variables have $ in their name, except hashes those have %, except of course you want to know the length, then you use $ too" or something Oct 30 04:00:53 yeah. I really hare that in perl. and the stupidness of @ Oct 30 04:01:05 @is so stupid Oct 30 04:01:33 @my $stupid = $varible Oct 30 04:58:26 night all Oct 30 04:58:32 thanks for the interesting convo Oct 30 06:49:35 good morning Oct 30 06:50:02 Morning :) Oct 30 06:52:56 yo Oct 30 06:53:06 Hiya :) Oct 30 06:53:32 mickey-tw: Going back to Germany tomorrow or? Oct 30 06:53:55 yes. my plane departs in 8 hours Oct 30 06:54:09 will bring me back to FRA @ 06:50 on wednesday Oct 30 06:54:12 Ah, ok Oct 30 06:55:45 I think I like it more when you're in .tw though, so much progress during the last week... ;) Oct 30 06:59:00 well, yeah Oct 30 06:59:06 but this project has to function without me Oct 30 06:59:22 i may not always be around Oct 30 07:00:19 * mickey-tw to raise own VC ;) Oct 30 07:00:22 no, just kidding Oct 30 07:02:58 i have some open construction sites to close before i dive into SDK/tools for the remainder of this year Oct 30 07:04:56 moin Oct 30 07:21:18 mickey-tw: open construction sites? Oct 30 07:40:16 xzcvczx: I think he means with the base libraries Oct 30 07:41:21 hi all Oct 30 07:41:24 whats cooking Oct 30 07:41:33 ah ok Oct 30 07:49:53 hmmm so close yet so far away Oct 30 08:02:30 anyone having knowledge of qvga fbset? Oct 30 08:03:50 jeddy3: stefan_schmidt maybe? Oct 30 08:04:30 CM, :) Oct 30 08:04:37 stefan_schmidt, ping? Oct 30 08:22:10 ok, my example for dbus is not so far from ready Oct 30 08:22:43 fatal-: wanna post it somewhere :P Oct 30 08:23:59 I will, but bit later today Oct 30 08:24:05 :) Oct 30 08:24:30 lol there is only 2.5 hrs left of today :P Oct 30 08:24:48 it's 10:24am ... :) Oct 30 08:25:23 2.5hrs and im 21 woot Oct 30 08:28:08 xzcvczx: Only 75% of my age then.. :P Oct 30 08:30:40 oi, stop making me feel old, you people Oct 30 08:37:22 muhahaha Oct 30 08:53:31 cjb_ie: how old are you? Oct 30 08:54:19 ancient? Oct 30 08:55:01 Hi, I am trying to emulate the openmoko software on ubuntu using qemu and I am running into some problems Oct 30 08:55:23 Are you using the makefile? Oct 30 08:55:40 yes, then the proces ends with: Oct 30 08:55:40 U-boot failed to finish writing in 300 seconds, giving up. Oct 30 08:55:40 make: *** [flash-qemu-official] Error 255 Oct 30 08:56:13 I would really love to get into the software and squash some bugs or help out with some project Oct 30 08:56:34 (I want to buy one, if the second gen is released) Oct 30 08:56:56 hi all Oct 30 08:57:43 Balachmar: I know there was an error with the name in the qemu flashing that was fixed this morning Oct 30 08:58:14 About 5h ago Oct 30 08:59:05 CM: ok I will try again, I have tried it yesterday so let's see if it is fixed :) Oct 30 08:59:45 Balachmar: I hope so, if not, paste the error into pastebin.ca or similar and put the link here, and maybe someone knows a way around it Oct 30 09:00:01 CM: will do, I have just started the proces Oct 30 09:00:08 Balachmar: I'm starting a new build now too, but can't test until I get home :) Oct 30 09:00:16 (home from work that is) Oct 30 09:00:28 CM: I can... :) I will let you know Oct 30 09:17:52 abraxa_: still here? Oct 30 09:38:01 how do you rebiuld package index (packages.gz) if you use homebrew repository Oct 30 09:38:09 bitbake package-index Oct 30 09:38:37 I am still getting the same error as yesterday when trying to get openmoko built for qemu Oct 30 09:38:51 error poster here: http://pastebin.ca/754845 Oct 30 09:40:26 mickey-tw, ah thats it, thanks Oct 30 09:41:59 Balachmar: Hmm.. Seems like mtd-utils is missing or something Oct 30 09:42:31 CM: is that a package I should download myself? Oct 30 09:42:52 I think it should be built automaticly Oct 30 09:43:01 ok Oct 30 09:43:14 I don't have it installed, but I think I've done a bitbake mtd-utils-native once Oct 30 09:43:16 and another thing, how does people change the backgound on openmoko-today, like in screenshots in planet.openmoko or on scap? :) Oct 30 09:43:17 Wait a sec Oct 30 09:44:11 CM, Balachmar, yes, I just built openmoko from scratch yesterday evening, and i had no problems regardning mtd-utils Oct 30 09:45:07 Balachmar: Try "cd build;source ../setup-env;bitbake -c mtd-utils-native" Oct 30 09:45:08 s/regardning/regarding/ Oct 30 09:45:10 jeddy3 meant: CM, Balachmar, yes, I just built openmoko from scratch yesterday evening, and i had no problems regarding mtd-utils Oct 30 09:45:26 From your moko directory that is Oct 30 09:46:15 Balachmar: I assume you did make update-makefile;make setup update just a while ago or? Oct 30 09:46:38 I just downloaded the make file again Oct 30 09:46:43 Ah, ok Oct 30 09:47:06 And I only need to build the qemu stuff right? Oct 30 09:47:13 Then run the commands I posted above: make update-makefile;make setup update Oct 30 09:47:36 make qemu should work yes Oct 30 09:47:44 ok, thanks that was my next line :) Oct 30 09:48:27 But if you want to run your own images, you'll have to build everything (Takes 5-12h depending on your comp) Oct 30 09:50:23 well, first just checking the stuff out Oct 30 09:50:44 Ok :) Oct 30 09:51:02 Do I need to build the whole stuff even if I just do some bugfixing for programs that are already in there? Oct 30 09:51:48 Balachmar: Unfortunately I think so. You'll need the cross compile stuff to test things Oct 30 09:52:25 Also, it's not really much of a hazzle. Just do a make openmoko-devel-image and let it build for a few hours Oct 30 09:52:42 CM: I know, let the computer do all the hard work :) Oct 30 09:53:19 i' m trying to build openmoko for i386 but build fails on u-boot compiling with | hello_world.c:0: error: bad value (armv4) for -march= switch Oct 30 09:53:36 Balachmar: They (OpenMoko and OpenEmbedded) are working on making it easier for people to get the toolchain up and running for cross compiles and such Oct 30 09:53:42 But it's not done yet Oct 30 09:53:51 mtn: connecting to monotone.openembedded.org Oct 30 09:53:52 mtn: network error: failed to connect: Connection refused Oct 30 09:54:06 anyone else getting the same? Oct 30 09:54:39 CM: I will manage (I hope) and if not, I'll be back here :) Oct 30 09:54:47 KwisatzHaderach_: That problem has happened to a lot of peole, not sure how to get around it Oct 30 09:55:14 KwisatzHaderach_: It shouldn't build uboot at all for i386 Oct 30 09:55:22 CM, only when compiling for i386? of for fic too? Oct 30 09:55:36 KwisatzHaderach_: Only for i386 Oct 30 09:55:55 Just finished a build for the gta01 Oct 30 09:55:59 hello Oct 30 09:56:14 guaqua: I did a make update just 1h ago or so Oct 30 09:56:23 Ghiottone|work: Morning :) Oct 30 09:56:30 CM, i suppose than uboot for i386 not so important to run openmoko with xoo Oct 30 09:56:56 KwisatzHaderach_: Not at all, but I wonder what is pulling it in. Shouldn't be built Oct 30 09:57:37 hmm Oct 30 09:57:47 i must be behind some sneaky firewall then Oct 30 09:58:11 XorA: Can dependencies be different depending on MACHINE? Oct 30 09:58:31 CM: yes Oct 30 09:58:45 CM: but please dont abuse that Oct 30 09:58:51 cos my home computer seems to be able to pull Oct 30 09:59:33 CM, strange thats compiler reports about unsopported arch Oct 30 09:59:46 *unsupported Oct 30 10:00:46 XorA: Ok, thanks Oct 30 10:01:09 CM: I am still running into the same problem... Oct 30 10:01:36 CM: maybe just try to compile it all? Oct 30 10:01:58 Balachmar: You could give that a try Oct 30 10:02:11 But I've built qemu before without trouble Oct 30 10:02:38 I mean without having the full openmoko-devel-image built Oct 30 10:02:51 I know. Oct 30 10:03:05 But just use make to compile it all? Oct 30 10:03:43 make all builds a lot of extra packages Oct 30 10:03:58 make openmoko-devel-image builds the kernel and rootfs Oct 30 10:04:30 Balachmar: You might want to update your local.conf file first Oct 30 10:04:52 Hmm.. Or maybe that's not needed either any more Oct 30 10:05:11 which pc can run qemu with neo1973? Oct 30 10:06:02 You mean how fast? Oct 30 10:06:37 I'd say OpenMoko is very slow in qemu on a AMD64 3000+ with 1gb ram Oct 30 10:07:32 CM, thanx alot Oct 30 10:08:54 It's not unsable, but it's significantly slower than on a real Neo Oct 30 10:09:50 gmp-native still seems to fail :( Oct 30 10:10:04 maybe i'll update to gutsy later today and see if that fixes things Oct 30 10:14:24 guaqua: I just did a bitbake -c rebuild on gmp-native; NOTE: package gmp-native-4.2.1: completed Oct 30 10:14:43 Something is messed up in your build environment Oct 30 10:15:40 yep Oct 30 10:15:45 something sure is Oct 30 10:15:47 :) Oct 30 10:16:35 yo dogs Oct 30 10:16:38 whats up? Oct 30 10:17:41 torpor: How's it going with your bluetooth ideas? Oct 30 10:19:15 i had a few other family things going on in the last few days .. but i'm working on it again today. i've added a basic panel to settingsGUI, now its time to get the plumbing worked out .. Oct 30 10:19:28 i'll be coding on it tonigh (austrian time) and hopefully finished today. Oct 30 10:19:38 then i'll send it to Ghiottone to integrate into the main release. Oct 30 10:19:53 i gotta say it really is awesome to have keyboard support on the neo .. its a whole different machine. ;) Oct 30 10:20:20 one thing: anyone know an easy way to get the fonts changed in the terminal app? i'd like to use a small font in landscape mode so that i can edit python code on the phone .. Oct 30 10:20:27 less of a phone though Oct 30 10:20:32 sadly ;/ Oct 30 10:20:47 when i get the bt gui working, i wanna do a demo video, and what better way to demo the functionality of a keyboard than to have a screen full of python code being edited on the phone .. ;) Oct 30 10:21:06 CM, if i am not mistaken you run gentoo?...what kernel are you running, usb_gadgetfs.h has been removed from 2.6.23m so qemu doesnt build if gadgetfs support is enabled Oct 30 10:21:15 anrp: i dunno about tht, the phone features are getting better by the week now .. i use my neo as a phone on occasion now .. Oct 30 10:21:25 Sup3rkiddo: I'm still on 2.6.22-gentoo-r6 Oct 30 10:21:42 is this clock app using cairo? http://scap.linuxtogo.org/files/0a565f6400a444f6c312b6dbcaca9637.png Oct 30 10:22:06 btw, cairo on the neo is lovely. Oct 30 10:22:17 as is librsvg+cairo of course. ;) Oct 30 10:22:21 CM: hmm..alright thanks, but i take it that you can ssh into your qemu Oct 30 10:22:46 Sup3rkiddo: Honestly, it failed to start last week that was last time i tried Oct 30 10:22:50 X hanged Oct 30 10:22:50 CM: check you later in the day, hope to have a nice demo video to show off and a new settingsGUI out there too .. Oct 30 10:22:58 * torpor is away Oct 30 10:23:05 torpor: Cool! I want a bt keyboard too Oct 30 10:23:27 Sup3rkiddo: But yes, I had it working this summer Oct 30 10:23:46 CM: oooh, ok, could you check is you have usb_gadgetfs.h under /usr/src/linux-*/include/linux//? Oct 30 10:25:34 Sup3rkiddo: Hmm.. I don't actually Oct 30 10:26:20 Sup3rkiddo: Äh, forget that, I have: /usr/src/linux-2.6.22-gentoo-r6/include/linux/usb_gadgetfs.h Oct 30 10:27:01 CM: alright thanks a lot, that puts things into perspective..=D, 2.6.23 doesnt have that header.be warned Oct 30 10:28:14 Ok, I'll wait with an update this time then :) Oct 30 10:29:01 stupid me, now i have to emerge another kernel, copying over this file from an older kernel gives read erros...bah Oct 30 11:12:27 hi Oct 30 11:27:36 Still not getting qemu to compile, I did notice that I didn't have all packages installed according to the makefile page Oct 30 11:27:38 http://pastebin.ca/754991 Oct 30 11:28:35 this bit is interesting I guess: Oct 30 11:28:35 ls: /home/wligtenb/prive/openmoko/images/openmoko/uImage-2.6.*-neo1973.bin: No such file or directory Oct 30 11:28:36 basename: missing operand Oct 30 11:28:36 Try `basename --help' for more information. Oct 30 11:44:28 Hello Everybody Oct 30 11:44:33 :) Oct 30 11:45:05 Does the recent snapshots finally fix the gsmd bugs? Oct 30 11:45:35 The last week or two have been quite good Oct 30 11:45:57 CM: is it automatically detect the network? Oct 30 11:46:34 It does for me, but I've been running the same build since October 17th Oct 30 11:46:52 Should update to a new rootfs Oct 30 11:47:25 Can anybody else confirm if gsmd work flawlessly? Oct 30 11:47:53 I don't think it's flawless yet, but people seem happy with it lately Oct 30 11:48:32 CM: is there a commit log? Oct 30 11:48:57 raddy: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/commitlog/ Oct 30 11:54:18 openmoko: 03thomas * r3305 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-dialer2/ (ChangeLog src/moko-dialer.c): Oct 30 11:54:18 openmoko: * src/moko-dialer.c: (on_keypad_dial_clicked), Oct 30 11:54:18 openmoko: (on_keypad_pin_entry), (on_network_registered), (moko_dialer_init): Oct 30 11:54:18 openmoko: Clean up registration code (don't assume gsmd is broken!) Oct 30 12:07:30 Anybody else there??? Oct 30 12:08:10 where? Oct 30 12:08:27 zash: here :) Oct 30 12:08:46 raddy: I'm not having problems. Oct 30 12:09:33 LarstiQ: from recent updates, or you wheren't having any problem since the begging? Oct 30 12:09:54 sorry, beginning Oct 30 12:10:12 LarstiQ:: beginning Oct 30 12:10:17 It was broken for me the whole of September Oct 30 12:10:39 CM: ohh Oct 30 12:12:06 CM: how can i determine the snapshot's month? Oct 30 12:12:23 On the neo, try cat /etc/version Oct 30 12:12:47 CM: i mean before downloading Oct 30 12:12:50 if you mean on the buildhost or so, just look at the filename Oct 30 12:14:41 raddy: Download ScaredyCat's images if you want, he has from yesterday http://buildhost.automated.it/OM2007.2/ Oct 30 12:19:45 I'm thinking of ordering the neo1973 kit -- what's inside the advanced kit that's on sale for $450 on openmoko site? Oct 30 12:19:57 see the list on the website Oct 30 12:20:19 basically a debug board, and extra battery, and a nice case for it all. Oct 30 12:20:24 and other stuff Oct 30 12:20:55 You shouldn't need the debug board, unless you re-flash u-boot with a broken version, or do something unusual. Oct 30 12:21:21 Yuou may want to check the Local Groups section on the wiki Oct 30 12:21:39 CM: just checked out the version Oct 30 12:22:08 ruxpin: to see if there are other users in your country. Oct 30 12:22:16 CM : i was been running, 20071016 Oct 30 12:22:50 CM : would i still be benefited if i update to latest snapshot? Oct 30 12:22:59 raddy: That's fairly new, but I think that was a bad build. Oct 30 12:23:08 Yes, I'm sure the later ones are better Oct 30 12:23:29 CM: ohh, in dialer too? Oct 30 12:23:53 Yes, i've seen a lot of updates to it lately Oct 30 12:24:11 CM: ohh, thank you. Oct 30 12:24:21 * raddy crossing my fingers Oct 30 12:25:06 openmoko: 03thomas * r3306 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-dialer2/ (ChangeLog src/moko-dialer.c): Oct 30 12:25:06 openmoko: * src/moko-dialer.c: (on_talking_reject_call): Stop ringing notification Oct 30 12:25:06 openmoko: if we reject an incoming call Oct 30 12:26:22 CM: i hope i don't need to update the kernel Oct 30 12:32:53 raddy: Why not? Oct 30 12:32:58 ~lart openmoko Oct 30 12:32:59 * apt cats /dev/urandom into openmoko's ear Oct 30 12:33:04 1.8M free on gta01 Oct 30 12:33:13 raddy: It just takes a few seconds to flash Oct 30 12:36:57 If anybody blog about the recent bug fixes, it will be very helpful for new comers Oct 30 12:37:20 raddy: I agree, it surely would Oct 30 12:37:49 raddy: Don't think there is though, yet, but it's been talked about in here before too Oct 30 12:44:55 raddy: bug fixes to what? Oct 30 12:57:31 re Oct 30 12:57:34 wb Oct 30 13:10:18 stefan_schmidt, ping ? Oct 30 13:21:00 jeddy3: Not much response today. Don't know who else have played around with qvga Oct 30 13:21:12 :) Oct 30 13:21:21 Maybe pH5 and koen? Oct 30 13:21:25 :) Oct 30 13:21:29 thought i try once after lunch also ;) Oct 30 13:22:08 Still not getting qemu to compile, I did notice that I didn't have all packages installed according to the makefile page Oct 30 13:22:14 http://pastebin.ca/754991 Oct 30 13:22:24 this bit is interesting I guess: Oct 30 13:22:28 ls: /home/wligtenb/prive/openmoko/images/openmoko/uImage-2.6.*-neo1973.bin: No such file or directory Oct 30 13:22:32 basename: missing operand Oct 30 13:22:53 jeddy3: Sorry, no time today and tomorrow. Just back in .de and tons of reallife stuff to handle. Back on thursday. Oct 30 13:23:12 stefan_schmidt, ah, nod...no worries :) Oct 30 13:23:34 Balachmar: Maybe poke rwhitby about it, he wrote the Makefile Oct 30 13:35:36 is it normal for qemu emulation to run extremely slow? Oct 30 13:35:44 i have a core2duo 2ghz, 1gb ram Oct 30 13:36:06 tushyd: Yes, it's slow Oct 30 13:36:18 Especially to start up Oct 30 13:36:38 oh, good... i was worried that I did something wrong Oct 30 13:40:23 tushyd: Have you build it recently? Oct 30 13:40:38 A lot of people seem to have problems getting it to build at all Oct 30 13:41:30 I built it a few weeks ago Oct 30 13:41:46 ok Oct 30 14:07:01 hello, I saved all 5 partitions using the cat and nc stuff. I am now trying to replace the splash image (as a test, before scratching the kernel :->). Unfortunately the procedure doesn't work for me (I get a corrupted image). I tried the original 480x640x8 System_boot.png, with the splashimg.pl, gzip -9, but it's still garbled. Does someone have a splash partition I could simply try through dfutil? Oct 30 14:08:17 it comes out garbled because you didn't modify the environment to say how big the image was Oct 30 14:08:49 let's look Oct 30 14:09:50 splashimage=nand read.e 0x32000000 splash 0x5000; unzip 0x32000000 0x33d00000 0x96000 Oct 30 14:10:18 ScaredyCat: my memory map is: 0x00244000-0x002e4000 : "splash" Oct 30 14:10:26 ScaredyCat: so I shall assume this is all wrong? Oct 30 14:10:43 and is the file size 0x5000 ? Oct 30 14:11:19 ScaredyCat: it is 0xB354 Oct 30 14:12:22 so you need to make it correct Oct 30 14:12:25 ScaredyCat: in splashimage=nand read.e START splash SIZE; unzip Oct 30 14:12:29 ScaredyCat: sorry Oct 30 14:12:44 ScaredyCat: first, what is 0x32000? is this where the data will be copied in RAM? Oct 30 14:12:56 yes... Oct 30 14:13:27 ScaredyCat: ok. So, in the unzip A B C, the A is the RAM address, what re B and C? Oct 30 14:13:34 don't get that wrong otherwise you might end up here : http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Bricked Oct 30 14:13:45 ScaredyCat: right :) Oct 30 14:14:26 ScaredyCat: (that was the idea by first playing with the splash screen) Oct 30 14:14:57 have a look in /openmoko/developers/werner/splash Oct 30 14:15:04 ScaredyCat: ok Oct 30 14:15:05 ScaredyCat: thanks Oct 30 14:15:08 np Oct 30 14:15:23 been there, broke it, wrote bricked page ;) Oct 30 14:16:55 ScaredyCat: another issue is: I saved all 5 partitions using the proposed netcat method, and the splash partition, even if copied exactly the same back, is empty. Looks like there is an awful lot of NUL out there. Ever experienced this? Oct 30 14:17:21 no, I used dd to copy mine Oct 30 14:39:34 thos: Cool blog post! :) Oct 30 14:39:51 * CM refers to http://blogs.gnome.org/thos/2007/10/30/turning-the-neo1973-into-an-expensive-external-gsm-modem/ Oct 30 14:43:04 * Kero once turned a Motorola Timeport into an external gsm modem for an iPAQ... (via IrDA) Oct 30 14:45:08 Sounds like this was some time ago :-) Oct 30 14:46:16 it was :) Neo is much more convenient. Still have to get GPRS working, tho... Oct 30 14:46:19 okay Oct 30 14:46:22 it works Oct 30 14:46:35 however scripts are somewhat defective Oct 30 14:46:46 let's see if I can update the wiki Oct 30 15:00:17 CM: :-) Oct 30 15:00:28 CM: it means I can finally get some decent work done on the dialer Oct 30 15:00:50 plus we can work on making PhoneKit a reality Oct 30 15:01:15 *nod* Got to those conclusions too :) Oct 30 15:01:17 thos: PhoneKit? Oct 30 15:02:04 robtaylor: read planet openmoko Oct 30 15:02:25 thos: who is/are working on the dialer? Oct 30 15:02:55 Kero: I think more people are in the "were" category ;-) Oct 30 15:03:01 thos: nice :) Oct 30 15:03:42 Kero: but Chris and I will start doing some more work on it now Oct 30 15:03:45 thos: have you heard about the DeviceKit plans? Oct 30 15:03:46 thos: I'm interested in helping, from the point of integrating contacts, agenda and gsm functionality Oct 30 15:03:57 robtaylor: mickey's plans? Oct 30 15:04:03 I would like to see them communicate well. Oct 30 15:04:21 thos: no, davidz's Oct 30 15:04:25 Kero: a good start would be listing all the functionality Oct 30 15:04:42 thos: definitely :) Oct 30 15:04:56 thos == thomas wood? Oct 30 15:05:04 cb22: greetings Oct 30 15:05:14 cb22: /whois ;) Oct 30 15:05:17 heh Oct 30 15:05:22 nice clock thos :) Oct 30 15:06:20 thos: just getting dialer to adhere to gsmd state machine would already be a big improvement :) Oct 30 15:06:33 s/adhere/track/ Oct 30 15:06:34 Kero meant: thos: just getting dialer to track to gsmd state machine would already be a big improvement :) Oct 30 15:07:04 thos: in a nutshell, replace HAL with a sqllite database, config for which system daemons to activate for which hardware, and a set of standard dbus interfaces for the daemons to export for different hardware types Oct 30 15:07:23 Kero: unfortunately gsmd is pretty much stateless Oct 30 15:07:34 thos: but the gsm modem is not Oct 30 15:07:58 Kero: yeah Oct 30 15:08:05 "connected" being a big state that the dialer I upgraded to yesterday failed to detect properly Oct 30 15:08:13 Kero: at least, I can't seem to get any meaningful state out of gsmd ;-) Oct 30 15:08:32 Kero: incoming or outgoing call? Oct 30 15:08:32 to the point of refusing to either dial out or ring on incoming calls (/tmp/gsm.log showed the incoming call!) Oct 30 15:09:18 thos: sounds like PhoneKit would involve helping my dream of having a standard connection-oriented service in that set of interfaces ;) Oct 30 15:09:34 most(?) AT commands have a querying mode, which can be used. Oct 30 15:10:36 ScaredyCat: will update the wiki as soon as I get the confirm e-mail. Thanks for directions. Oct 30 15:14:05 Kero: if you are still having problems with the dialer, please file a bug Oct 30 15:17:30 the gsm modem still doesn't book into the network here using a uImage and rootfs from today. however, manually doing does work. Oct 30 15:17:43 thos: and the gsm applet, too. Oct 30 15:18:09 and I'd actually expect those bugs to be well-known? Oct 30 15:18:51 Kero: what in particular about the gsm applet? Oct 30 15:18:53 i.e. submitting AT+CFUN=1 and AT+COPS with cu work and I see RING when called. Oct 30 15:19:01 any know if one can buy a gsm modem and make voice calls (not data) in ubuntu? Oct 30 15:19:04 Kero: it'd never hurt to file a bug if there isn't one already ;-) Oct 30 15:19:10 but does not work with the dialer Oct 30 15:19:56 gamin: did you update the svnrevs? Oct 30 15:20:13 thos: am using MokoMakefile Oct 30 15:20:32 thos: so should be latest.. Oct 30 15:20:55 anyone? Oct 30 15:22:17 gamin: not sure about that Oct 30 15:22:37 gamin: check the package version Oct 30 15:22:55 no? Oct 30 15:23:24 gamin: I think the makefile is using the default oe settings for openmoko with those sane src revs or something Oct 30 15:24:06 tushyd: Never tried, maybe someone knows in the ubuntu forums? Oct 30 15:25:55 The master makefile just wraps the standard OE bitbake mechanism; the sane srcrevs mechanism is part of OE. So all users outside of the openmoko developers themselves (who use the openmoko svn repository directly) will see the same set of "stable" svn versions in their build. Oct 30 15:26:44 Someone (XorA, I think) needs to update the sane srcrevs list to "upgrade" the OE build to more recent svn development versions. Oct 30 15:28:04 This is the major feature that has made builds work reliablly (finally). But the cost is that we (normal OE users) don't see the most recent checkins from the core openmoko developers until someone explicitly makes them available via the sane srcrevs. (or the insane srcrevs, which also exists IIRC :D) Oct 30 15:30:14 mwester: Thanks for the clear explanation :) Oct 30 15:34:29 hi there Oct 30 15:35:14 i dont know if this is the right place to ask: but where can I buy the neo in europe for reselling it? Oct 30 15:36:08 At teh moment the answer is 'from the website' Oct 30 15:36:09 Zachso: I'm not sure either, but probably you should contact the shop@openmoko.com Oct 30 15:36:25 there are no official reseller sources. Oct 30 15:36:31 SpeedEvil: Wasn't it someone here asking about that before? Oct 30 15:36:42 However, if you want to buy several hundred/thousand, ... Oct 30 15:37:00 nonono, i dont want to buy one or two Oct 30 15:37:26 i want to put them in my onlineshop Oct 30 15:37:34 Zachso: you can't Oct 30 15:37:42 why not? Oct 30 15:37:45 Zachso: that part of it is not setup right yet. Oct 30 15:37:56 Zachso: also - these are _not_ consumer ready devices. Oct 30 15:38:05 Zachso: the phone part of it sort-of-works some of the time. Oct 30 15:38:34 i dont want to buy them now, but when they are readey, so as far as i know should this be in december, right? Oct 30 15:39:11 Well, that's the latest word on hardware. Oct 30 15:39:13 HW hopefully, software won't be Oct 30 15:39:20 Software is unlikely to be user-ready Oct 30 15:39:41 yes but i dont want to sell the software ;) Oct 30 15:41:12 so, i have heard that there will be a office in france where european resellers can (in future) buy the devices, does anybody knows more? Oct 30 15:41:14 thos: I have installed openmoko-dialer2_0.1.0+svnr3298-r5_armv4t.ipk Oct 30 15:42:14 gamin: r3306 is the latest Oct 30 16:30:05 hello Oct 30 16:31:11 is anyone around to answer a few questions? Oct 30 16:31:36 they are just questions about the phone and software in general Oct 30 16:31:49 you should ask. if someone knows answers they will reply. Oct 30 16:31:57 ok Oct 30 16:32:10 how long is the current boot time on the phone? Oct 30 16:32:31 about 1 and 1/2 minutes? Oct 30 16:32:41 Yes, about that Oct 30 16:32:44 k Oct 30 16:33:25 in the final revision, will openmoko be shipped pre-installed on the Neo Oct 30 16:33:51 A lot less if you don't start the GUI. You can also speed it up by removing some services, such as the Avahi daemon. Oct 30 16:33:57 also, what about current GTA01 (is openmoko already installed)? Oct 30 16:34:19 zerowizard: The current one doesn't have a working rootfs, but the retail one will of course Oct 30 16:35:22 does openmoko have a command line console built in to the gui? Oct 30 16:35:25 what's the avahi daemon used for? Oct 30 16:35:32 dns Oct 30 16:35:42 zerowizard: Yes, matchbox terminal Oct 30 16:36:07 zerowizard: A lot of this is in the wiki if you want more detailed descriptions :) Oct 30 16:36:37 It's not necessary in the GTA01, as unless you have it on USB, or have bluetooth networking enabled, you don't need dns. IMO, avahi startup should be conditional on the startup of networking services. Oct 30 16:37:06 i have looked in the wiki, but i havent found some of these questions Oct 30 16:38:18 is the only way to become a developer, buy the phone and developer package? or is there a repository somewhere? Oct 30 16:39:00 zerowizard: svn.openmoko.org Oct 30 16:39:11 thank you. you guys have been a great help Oct 30 16:41:14 11,0 Oct 30 16:53:30 hi room.... Oct 30 16:57:19 :-| Oct 30 17:08:14 thos: gamin says about the same I told you :) and I've got r32xx, too; not r3306. got an ipkg somewhere? Or do I need to figure out how to tell OE to use newest version? Oct 30 17:08:49 Kero: tell OE to get the newest version Oct 30 17:09:08 Kero: if you want really bleeding edge, use autorev Oct 30 17:09:41 thos: OK. that means I'll only get to it next week. Travelling to USA tomorrow, RubyConference amongst other things. Oct 30 17:09:55 oh, good luck Oct 30 17:10:20 might spend some time writing down functionality reqs, tho. That's easy in a plane. Oct 30 17:10:33 cool :-) Oct 30 17:25:58 hi thos... since updating few days back that keyboard password dialog works correctly now Oct 30 17:31:10 Kero: JFYI - you enable autorev by putting "require conf/distro/include/moko-autorev.inc" into your local.conf Oct 30 17:31:46 When you then build the OM packages it'll fetch SVN HEADs for them Oct 30 17:55:01 abraxa_: thanks. Oct 30 18:01:42 => `/home/j/hak/openmoko/sources/JavaScriptCore_svn.webkit.org_.repository.webkit.trunk._27222_.tar.gz' Oct 30 18:01:46 404 Oct 30 18:01:49 damnit people why does this happen? Oct 30 18:08:11 tach Oct 30 18:09:30 n'abend (good evening) Oct 30 18:09:38 a 404 should be normal as bitbake tries to get the source code first from openmoko.org Oct 30 18:09:49 and then from the src_uri Oct 30 18:10:17 torpor: does it stop with 404 or continues with the right download? Oct 30 18:11:06 Ghiottone|work: that's normal Oct 30 18:11:33 Ghiottone|work: it checks for a cache version before trying vc Oct 30 18:12:20 thos: I know. I was trying to answer to torpor Oct 30 18:12:37 oh sorry Oct 30 18:13:54 thos :) Oct 30 18:18:26 i cao live without cam Oct 30 18:20:38 NOO, MY COOKIES Oct 30 18:54:03 <_buz> anyone tried this on neo? http://risujin.org/cellwriter/ Oct 30 18:56:09 _buz: Nope but it does seem *very* interesting Oct 30 18:56:16 <_buz> so i thought Oct 30 18:56:27 <_buz> it may even convince me to grab my portege again Oct 30 18:56:35 <_buz> i just wanted to put it on ebay tomorrow Oct 30 19:01:42 i loved my portege, but then i got a lifebook Oct 30 19:03:52 <_buz> i got a latitude instead Oct 30 19:03:58 <_buz> proper desktop replacement Oct 30 19:04:21 <_buz> but the portege may just be the best tablet ever built (which isnt saying much though) Oct 30 19:04:26 _buz, looks interesting Oct 30 19:04:54 Cool app, never heard of it before Oct 30 19:05:13 you played around with it yet? Oct 30 19:05:56 <_buz> no Oct 30 19:06:05 <_buz> tablet is not currently near me Oct 30 19:06:08 hello Oct 30 19:06:12 hi Ghiottone Oct 30 19:06:18 hey cb22 Oct 30 19:06:21 what news? Oct 30 19:06:50 roh, ping Oct 30 19:06:52 * _buz is gonna smack the next apple luser who keeps going on and on about time machine Oct 30 19:07:29 * Joop thinks it's thus a good idea to smack Einstein Oct 30 19:07:48 It was Newton that used Apple. Oct 30 19:08:05 *groan* Oct 30 19:08:18 and it was Einstein that had ideas about time travelling Oct 30 19:08:22 what happened to the bi-weekly update last week? Oct 30 19:08:25 was there one? Oct 30 19:08:41 <_buz> actually, newton is more useful. could drop a piano on steve Oct 30 19:09:09 Ghiottone, check out http://risujin.org/cellwriter/ Oct 30 19:09:16 from _buz, it looks rather interesting Oct 30 19:09:46 <_buz> actually, credit where credit is due, this comes from http://www.valdyas.org/fading/index.cgi/2007/10/30#cellwriter Oct 30 19:10:17 cb22, mmm interesting! Oct 30 19:10:20 I already thought it was a way too big coincedence to read it in that blog around the same time as someone mentioned it here :) Oct 30 19:10:44 heh Oct 30 19:11:19 <_buz> apparently another planetkde reader ;) Oct 30 19:11:42 <_buz> wisdom of the crowds, ey Oct 30 19:12:10 <_buz> is the ML broken or something Oct 30 19:12:25 <_buz> close to no traffic today and my mail doesnt arrive either it seems Oct 30 19:13:32 I remember trying a few weeks ago but it did not work. now it is working! Oct 30 19:30:49 <_buz> wow the mailinglist has some bad lag, more than 30min round trip for a short mail Oct 30 19:34:53 hmm.. cellwriter works quite nice on the neo :) http://scap.linuxtogo.org/files/6b205f56926f89d361501029a1551709.png Oct 30 19:36:49 nice Oct 30 19:37:10 hi Oct 30 19:37:20 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Qemu Oct 30 19:37:45 i want to get it run with this howto but the ./configure needs SDLLib Oct 30 19:38:01 but there are so many deb packages and i already installed some of them Oct 30 19:38:28 and the nex problem is: ERROR: Target 'arm-softmm' not recognised Oct 30 19:49:02 cb22, I have put a package of cellwriter in my feed. have a look :) Oct 30 19:49:11 cb22, packaging it has been really trivial Oct 30 19:49:15 haha, nice Ghiottone Oct 30 19:49:19 * cb22 looks Oct 30 19:49:37 * Ghiottone is under the packaging madness Oct 30 19:56:19 Has anybody actually built agg for openmoko? Oct 30 19:56:56 what's agg^ Oct 30 19:57:03 s/^/?/ Oct 30 19:57:03 Ghiottone meant: what's agg? Oct 30 19:57:30 cb22, I did not put any DEPENDS in the package. you may be missing something. please tell me if it happens Oct 30 19:59:07 agg == antigrain graphics. Oct 30 19:59:27 It has a .bb file but nothing seems to rely on it ... good thing, since it isn't building. Oct 30 20:00:36 uh? Oct 30 20:06:44 Ghiottone: agg is having an argument with libsdl over the location of sdl-config Oct 30 20:07:26 agg think it should be in a .../bin subdirectory, yet sdl puts it into .../bin/arm-angstrom-linux-gnueabi/ Oct 30 20:10:42 mmmm Oct 30 20:10:47 I'm having a look Oct 30 20:11:15 symlinks are often a good way to end such arguments, especially when the real binary ends up in an arch-specific location. (toolchains do this often) Oct 30 20:11:57 is there a -bin.ipkg file that might contain the missing sym links? Oct 30 20:12:08 I'd rather fix the problem the right that. That way, the package maintainers will accept the fix and the problem goes away forever. Oct 30 20:12:29 ^that^way Oct 30 20:12:39 sheesh. "Talk much, Russ?" Oct 30 20:15:23 it's not a matter of a symlink. It's a matter of having the right stuff in the .bb file. Oct 30 20:15:45 After all, sdl-net manages to build properly relying on sdl, so why shouldn't agg? Oct 30 20:17:29 As long as it's a problem with the bb file -- I'm just noting that there are other packages that consider it a feature to have the arch-specific binaries in a arch-specific directory, and that perhaps agg might be one of those? Oct 30 20:18:37 no, the location is fine; it's a matter to letting agg know where it actually is. Oct 30 20:19:16 It's a shell script, so one could argue that it doesn't belong in an "arm-*" subdirectory. Oct 30 20:19:32 In fact, everything in that subdirectory is a shell script, so I'd call it a botch. Oct 30 20:19:58 Easier to fix agg than the dozen packages which put shell scripts into an architecture-specific subdirectory. Oct 30 20:21:13 cool. That fixed it. Now on to other problems.... Oct 30 20:24:55 nelson, building package libsdl-native fixed building agg for me Oct 30 20:26:15 nelson, what did you do to fix it? Oct 30 20:26:40 mwester: Did you have a chance to look at Stefan's patches yet? Just wondering :) Oct 30 20:28:39 Ghiottone: changed this line: EXTRA_OECONF = "--with-sdl-exec-prefix=${STAGING_DIR}/${BUILD_SYS}" Oct 30 20:28:49 to this: EXTRA_OECONF += "SDL_CONFIG=${STAGING_BINDIR_CROSS}/sdl-config" Oct 30 20:29:34 Ghiottone: I'll try building libsdl-native. Oct 30 20:29:37 nelson, your seems a better fix Oct 30 20:29:41 thanks for the suggestion. Oct 30 20:30:03 nelson, I tried adding libsdl-native to depends but with no luck. I had to do an explicit build package Oct 30 20:30:24 nelson, it could be wise to ask OE developers which is the right way to deal with this Oct 30 20:33:15 abraxa_: Not really. I found them, and the discussion around them that included the retraction of one of the patches (?)... so I need to spend a bit more time on this, I think. Oct 30 20:34:18 mwester: http://svnweb.openmoko.org/trunk/src/target/kernel/patches/gta01-jbt6k74.patch?rev=3238&view=markup is all you need :) Oct 30 20:34:26 Ghiottone: will do. I built libsdl-native, but agg is getting hung up at do_populate_staging. Oct 30 20:34:45 Fails to create a subdirectory in the distribution include directory. Oct 30 20:34:58 abraxa_: Ok. Well that's easier. I wasn't aware that it was committed anywhere. Oct 30 20:37:18 nelson, try reverting your fix and trying again now that you have libsdl-native built (and staged) Oct 30 20:37:28 Ok, I'll have to generate a patch against the version of that patch that's included in the standard kernel - that's no big problem. I'll work on this tonight. Oct 30 20:38:43 I have to go now. bye all Oct 30 20:39:11 mwester: Awesome. http://svnweb.openmoko.org/trunk/src/target/kernel/patches/s3c2410_fb-line_length.patch?rev=3234&view=markup might also be needed, I don't think it was used with my version Oct 30 20:40:02 Well that one looks easy to add as well. And shouldn't affect anything else. Oct 30 20:41:52 Yeah :) Oct 30 21:32:58 CM: Balachmar needs a more recent kernel with the neo1973 suffix, not the old fic-gta01 suffix. Oct 30 21:36:04 hi Oct 30 22:19:57 When shall there be an official release date ? Oct 30 22:20:13 when it's done Oct 30 22:20:43 hopefully Oct 30 22:23:40 'Release date: when its done' ftw :D Oct 30 22:28:36 its like with Debian: "Good things are for those who wait" Oct 30 22:37:01 I've been told last week that the official release date shall be announced this week Oct 30 22:45:19 some gutsy users in here? Oct 30 22:45:36 i maybe found the compile issue Oct 30 22:45:43 need tester Oct 30 22:47:30 i am close to the end Oct 30 22:49:04 There's many gutsy users in here (I'm not one though) but I guess it's a bit late european time where most people seem to be Oct 30 22:49:48 i registered at the wiki and add my idea Oct 30 22:50:05 Good, wiki additions are great :) Oct 30 22:50:22 hmm Oct 30 22:50:31 same error few files later Oct 30 22:50:47 oh no different Oct 30 22:50:49 Is there anything about it in bugzilla? Oct 30 22:50:51 wich is the channel for openmoko spanish guys Oct 30 22:51:26 alfermp: Don't know if there is one. I know there's an -fi and -de channel, but maybe try #openmoko-es then? Oct 30 22:51:56 ok CM, do you know when openmoko is realsed? Oct 30 22:52:02 the final version Oct 30 22:52:02 #open-moko-de? Oct 30 22:52:04 great Oct 30 22:52:19 look at the topic Oct 30 22:52:27 alfermp: As playya said ;) Oct 30 22:52:35 * mwester wonders if the only way to see playya's error log is if one claims to run gutsy... :p Oct 30 22:52:51 :D Oct 30 22:53:03 now i run without strace Oct 30 22:53:15 alfermp: Shortly; the hardware will be realeased hopefully in december, but the software will take quite a while. I guess this spring at best Oct 30 22:53:41 What's an SPI-connected WiFi chip ? Oct 30 22:53:42 :-( Oct 30 22:53:56 strace says that for example /usr/share/local-langpacke/de/LC_MESSAGE/make.mo is not found Oct 30 22:54:10 thats why it is not installed normaly Oct 30 22:54:11 CVirus: External mod I guess, using the spi ports Oct 30 22:54:13 I do have a fresh install of gutsy on my test/gaming computer but it's missing quite a bit of software considering compiling anything. Oct 30 22:54:23 CM: SPI ? Oct 30 22:54:31 still wiating Oct 30 22:55:06 CVirus: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serial_Peripheral_Interface_Bus Oct 30 22:55:25 CM: thanks alot Oct 30 22:56:50 who got agg ported? Oct 30 22:57:07 * CM suspects Ghiottone Oct 30 23:00:03 Ohh... random X hardlocks due to a freezing GPU are fun. Oct 30 23:00:12 Thanks, nVidia! Oct 30 23:00:20 nice. Oct 30 23:00:22 abraxa_: :P Oct 30 23:00:46 Yeah, and I did think ATi was bad. Oct 30 23:00:48 heh. Oct 30 23:01:16 I've only had trouble once with an nvidia card, and that was when lightning hit the house and todally fried it Oct 30 23:01:39 But then I'm not running that wobbly-stuff.. ;) Oct 30 23:04:30 not to be annoying, I'm sure people get asked this a lot, is there a measure as to how far a long the software is? Oct 30 23:05:12 summatusmentis: Now it builds witout failing more than half the time, and you can make calls some times.. ;) Oct 30 23:05:53 lol, oh Oct 30 23:05:56 But seriously, it's improving fast but I'm sure it's 6 months until it's good to use every day Oct 30 23:05:59 on the topic I'm slightly confused, will gps work on GTA02 Oct 30 23:06:14 pjspjspjs: Yes Oct 30 23:06:31 Hopefully on GTA01 soon too, if only the lawyers finish their paperwork Oct 30 23:08:06 CM, so there is a gps device in the gta01? Oct 30 23:08:19 faern: Surely, and it worked already this summer Oct 30 23:08:22 CM: 6 month ? Oct 30 23:08:44 CVirus: I mean for commercial release. Nothing official for sure, just a guess or estimate Oct 30 23:09:01 CM: is the GTA02 meant for commercial end user release ? Oct 30 23:09:05 isn't& Oct 30 23:09:06 faern: The problem is that OpenMoko are not allowed to distribute the binary blob Oct 30 23:09:22 CM, oh. I see Oct 30 23:09:39 CVirus: It is, but the hardware released now in December will not have "end user quality" software Oct 30 23:10:35 CM: in terms of what exactly ? Oct 30 23:11:11 CVirus: Probably everything. Unpolished, powermanagement incomplete, theming, GPS software.. Oct 30 23:11:26 Of course miracles can happen, I'm just being causeous ;) Oct 30 23:11:51 * mwester agrees with CM's assessment... December is only a matter a weeks away. Oct 30 23:12:06 but the hardware would be ready in december I guess ? Oct 30 23:12:25 Harald Welte doesn't show up around here ? Oct 30 23:12:28 CVirus: That's the latst we've heard at least Oct 30 23:12:36 bye Oct 30 23:12:41 CVirus: He does, but rarely say much (LaF0rge) Oct 30 23:12:59 CVirus: mickey|away is a lot more talkative :) Oct 30 23:13:09 yeah Oct 30 23:13:09 (Also landing in FFM in about 6h) Oct 30 23:13:09 so are there any plans for a gta03? Oct 30 23:13:11 hehe Oct 30 23:13:16 faern: no. Oct 30 23:13:17 FFM ? Oct 30 23:13:27 faern: other than nebulous 'wouldn't it be nice' plans. Oct 30 23:13:29 faern: check the HXD8 Oct 30 23:13:32 As I understand it. Oct 30 23:13:37 SpeedEvil: Are you sure? Mickey has mentioned it.. Oct 30 23:13:41 Meh. Oct 30 23:13:47 Maybe I am. Oct 30 23:14:02 I don't think - as I understand it - the feature list has been frozen. Oct 30 23:14:29 FIC should start providing more info so people would decide weather they wait or buy the device or what Oct 30 23:14:31 There are *always* plans for devices "in the future" -- just look at the concept automobiles at the auto shows. I expect that future "neo" hardware is little different in that regardl. Oct 30 23:14:44 *regard Oct 30 23:14:59 CVirus: Remember the Osborne? Oct 30 23:15:05 huh ? Oct 30 23:15:21 SpeedEvil: Ah, true. It will not be another hw revision of the Neo using the same shell as I got it Oct 30 23:16:04 CVirus: The Osborne Effect: Pre-announcing your product too far in advance results in too few sales of current product to keep the company in business. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osborne_Computer_Corporation Oct 30 23:16:04 gtg home .. later guys Oct 30 23:16:20 mwester: got that :-D Oct 30 23:16:40 gtg Oct 30 23:18:55 * CM takes a nap Oct 30 23:22:44 hello :) i have a question: what is the life time of neo1973 gta01 battery? and will it be extended in 02? Oct 30 23:31:23 "Oct 30 - GTA02v4 design produced, and shipped to qualified developers." - was the timeline correct? :) Oct 30 23:35:18 thomasg: I aint got one yet :-) Oct 30 23:37:06 * mwester-laptop goes to check for packages that might have been left by his mailbox... Oct 30 23:38:40 rwhitby: the same for me *duck* :) Oct 30 23:39:08 don't all cells have gps Oct 30 23:39:15 how come I cant use mine for nav Oct 30 23:39:37 pjspjspjs: no, gps is not a standard feature on cell phones. Oct 30 23:44:05 playya: I've got gutsy running, what do you want tested? Oct 31 00:13:49 re Oct 31 00:48:15 http://www.techconsumer.com/2007/10/29/google-unveiling-gphone-plans-in-two-weeks-wants-to-change-the-cellphone-industry/ **** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed Oct 31 02:59:57 2007