**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Oct 31 02:59:57 2007 Oct 31 05:11:05 join #maemo Oct 31 05:11:47 * mbuf urgh, need coffee Oct 31 05:33:11 * CM needs coffee too Oct 31 06:34:51 openmoko: 03tick * r3307 10/trunk/src/target/gsm/ (include/gsmd/atcmd.h src/gsmd/atcmd.c src/gsmd/usock.c): gsmd: Fix the bug 928, that user cannot hang up call/cancel_atcmd until a call is connected.(Andrzej Zaborowski) Oct 31 06:36:03 openmoko: 03tick * r3308 10/trunk/src/target/gsm/ (include/gsmd/gsmd.h src/gsmd/atcmd.c): gsmd: Mainly for working around the bug of GTA01 HW with moko3, but it can also solve the start up timing issue. (Tick) Oct 31 06:37:20 openmoko: 03tick * r3309 10/trunk/src/target/gsm/ (5 files in 5 dirs): gsmd: Adding IMSI support (Jim Rayner) Oct 31 06:46:57 good morning Oct 31 06:47:05 :) Oct 31 06:47:08 Hopscotch, good morning Oct 31 07:09:31 Good Morning people Oct 31 07:13:37 CVirus, good morning Oct 31 07:22:38 morning Oct 31 07:33:20 ScaredyCat: hello, could you tell me what dd command you used to save e.g. the splash screen which is /dev/mtdblock3 here? because here if I save it I get only zeroes. I have updated the Wiki http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Splash_screen for my yesterday's issue which is now fixed, thank you. Oct 31 07:34:28 alphanet: I'm just guessing here, but probably he used dd if=/dev/mtdblock3 of=spl.raw or similar Oct 31 07:34:46 Didn't that work? Oct 31 07:35:42 CM: let's try. Oct 31 07:39:24 CM: another question if you don't mind. I have used the date -s and hwclock --to-.. as in the Wiki, however at next boot it's still 2000, did you also experiment this? Oct 31 07:39:45 alphanet: Nope, haven't played around with that yet Oct 31 07:39:54 moin Oct 31 07:40:27 Interesting: http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS5024332766.html Oct 31 07:48:45 indeed Oct 31 07:51:27 CM: think I have found the problem: it only works sort-of when I save the file locally and not transfer it with netcat at the same time. Oct 31 07:52:01 gtg Oct 31 07:58:43 alphanet: Ah, ok. I only tried locally, then scp:ed the file Oct 31 08:01:08 CM: there must be a bad interaction with I/O size or something in the pipe Oct 31 08:01:59 CM: I wanted a reliable backup before starting to change the rootfs or the kernel Oct 31 08:02:05 CM: looks much better now Oct 31 08:03:08 alphanet: Good thinking I managed to mess up my uboot_env and still haven't gotten around to fix it Oct 31 08:03:24 * CM adds a , after the thinking.. ^ Oct 31 08:03:57 CM: normally it's also a flash partition, want mine? Oct 31 08:04:28 alphanet: No, I've already tried with ScaredyCat's. Unfortunately, each uboot_env is unique Oct 31 08:04:41 It has the bad block table and partition offsets Oct 31 08:04:50 It can be rebuilt though Oct 31 09:55:11 mornin Oct 31 10:04:13 is there a status page which lists all features and their current working condition? Oct 31 10:17:26 ruxpin: Unfortunately not yet Oct 31 10:46:29 is the deadline still December? Oct 31 10:47:21 ruxpin: Unconfirmed Oct 31 10:47:23 we ordered a couple phones, I'm hoping to get to play with them in November :) Oct 31 10:47:44 great if most features would be working then Oct 31 10:48:12 That seems likely for the basic functions, given the current rate of progress Oct 31 10:48:51 yay Oct 31 10:54:13 crop Oct 31 10:54:25 s/o/a Oct 31 10:54:48 the battery in my phone sux Oct 31 12:14:00 * * OM Bug 968 has been created by emreturkay(AT)gmail.com Oct 31 12:14:01 * * openmoko-today taskmanager toolbar icon Oct 31 12:14:02 * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=968 Oct 31 12:15:00 * * OM Bug 969 has been created by emreturkay(AT)gmail.com Oct 31 12:15:02 * * openmoko-today taskmanager application icons Oct 31 12:15:03 * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=969 Oct 31 12:42:01 * * OM Bug 970 has been created by ebbe(AT)skummer.com Oct 31 12:42:02 * * Keyboard opens and closes in a loop Oct 31 12:42:03 * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=970 Oct 31 13:06:07 hio Oct 31 13:14:50 hello Oct 31 13:15:48 did I miss something or is there still only the developer preview version of the Neo1973 available? Oct 31 13:17:27 <_buz> Tetraden: you didnt miss anything, that's still the case Oct 31 13:17:36 GTA01 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 Oct 31 13:19:04 a pity :/ Oct 31 13:20:59 why isn't there a newsletter for this type of information? obviously i didn't find one. Oct 31 13:23:48 Tetraden: How about the announce list? Oct 31 13:25:46 i still subscribed this list, but there was no mail for months Oct 31 13:27:42 -still +already Oct 31 13:28:57 Tetraden: I agree, been too quiet on that list Oct 31 13:33:24 the last announcement is from July, 1st 2007 Oct 31 13:37:10 Was one in august, and then a mail in sept too Oct 31 13:37:35 * CM looks at http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/announce/ Oct 31 13:43:36 openmoko: 03thomas * r3310 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-dialer2/ (57 files in 5 dirs): Oct 31 13:43:36 openmoko: * configure.ac: Oct 31 13:43:36 openmoko: * src/*: Oct 31 13:43:36 openmoko: Begin seperation of dialer and phone management Oct 31 13:44:33 i.e. don't use a dialer newer than r3306 Oct 31 13:45:38 thos: noted :) Oct 31 13:47:42 thos: Is it a little PhoneKit I spot growing there? ;) Oct 31 13:48:07 * Sup3rkiddo dances..his gsmd messages are handled correctly Oct 31 13:48:33 thos: btw, I have something to show you Oct 31 13:48:45 hi all Oct 31 13:49:07 but, I'm waiting for one guy to respond me one thing first... and I've been waiting that for half an day :/ Oct 31 13:49:31 fatal-: dbus thingy? Oct 31 13:49:35 yes Oct 31 13:49:45 cool, show me..=D Oct 31 13:51:57 grrr. where the heck has everybody gone today. I can't get response for any of my stuff today, it seems to be. talking about our organization here, not anything related to you :) Oct 31 13:52:19 bah Oct 31 13:52:31 ~lart fatal- Oct 31 13:52:31 * apt holds fatal- to the floor and spanks him with a cat-o-nine-tails Oct 31 13:53:42 * fatal- gets apt and installs him into /dev/null Oct 31 13:55:06 by the way, phonesim is quite ocol Oct 31 13:57:02 hi all Oct 31 13:57:11 hi Oct 31 13:57:47 yoyo: Hey there :) Oct 31 13:57:59 :) Oct 31 14:03:46 <_buz> community update Oct 31 14:03:52 <_buz> but only organizational stuff Oct 31 14:04:26 <_buz> and especially no info on GTA02 Oct 31 14:08:06 ping roh Oct 31 14:32:31 G'morning Oct 31 14:40:04 morning Oct 31 14:43:31 ping CM Oct 31 14:45:30 Ghiottone|work: Hey :) Oct 31 14:46:57 CM: hola. I just realized that you are the one who submitted for contribution for the search engine Oct 31 14:47:11 Ghiottone|work: Hehe, sure, a long time ago Oct 31 14:47:35 CM: eheheh when did you do the request? Oct 31 14:47:39 Ghiottone|work: Never mind that, I just thought of adding some blogs or so, but I think you have all of them already Oct 31 14:48:15 CM: pity that google doesn't have an email notification for it Oct 31 14:48:32 When I added the link to it in the wiki Oct 31 14:48:33 CM: you could have asked me directly and I would have promptly accepted Oct 31 14:48:56 Ghiottone|work: No problem, I assumed you just didn't see it Oct 31 14:49:23 CM: sorry for that. I have not put any blog entries as I did not even think of it. you are very welcome to mess with the search engine Oct 31 14:49:27 Agree that it's strange that you don't get a notification (Had some contributors to my gentoo search) Oct 31 14:50:55 Ghiottone|work: Some, like thos' an cwiiis blogs might be useful to add since they're not on the planet.om Oct 31 14:53:40 Ghiottone|work: Hmm.. I'm listed as a contributor, but I can't edit anything Oct 31 14:54:12 Thanks for the mail btw :) Oct 31 14:57:34 CM: np :) try adding sometinge instead of editing? Oct 31 14:58:01 I can't even get "in" to add anything and it's not listed in my coop page Oct 31 14:58:33 Ah.. Now.. Oct 31 15:00:04 CM: is it working? Oct 31 15:00:09 Yes Oct 31 15:00:14 CM: good Oct 31 15:00:29 * CM adds a relevant blog or two Oct 31 15:02:04 crap, the 3G has gone from my 3G-modem :( Oct 31 15:02:21 Ghiottone|work: I can't add labels though, but I guess that's ok :) Oct 31 15:02:25 sorry. Do you want it back? Oct 31 15:02:31 yay for 53Kbps Oct 31 15:11:08 I must go sii ja Oct 31 15:14:03 w 16 Oct 31 15:15:43 CM: I can add it for you, I suppose. Are you able to assing an existing label to your sites? Oct 31 15:16:10 Ghiottone|work: Yes. That is if you want a lable like that. :) Oct 31 15:16:27 Could be added to the planet.openmoko.org url too Oct 31 15:18:31 CM: I think it fits very well. BLOG label? or another name? Oct 31 15:19:12 Blog is good :) Oct 31 15:23:59 CM: done Oct 31 15:24:44 CM: Add your own blog too Oct 31 15:27:48 Ghiottone|work: Heh, true. And then I'll better start writing some good articles too ;) Oct 31 15:28:18 CM: ehehe Oct 31 15:28:35 hi Oct 31 15:29:02 CM: I have been having some problems with the wiki lately. it seems that the engine don't include all the pages. Oct 31 15:29:14 Ghiottone|work: Oh, weird Oct 31 15:29:36 CM: I tried adding the special pages that link all the pages but with no luck. any idea or past experience? Oct 31 15:30:45 Hmm.. No, but I'll look around Oct 31 15:31:16 how do i setup my openmoko to access internet thru my pc? nameserver is setup in resolv.config. what else to do? Oct 31 15:31:44 shred: Did you follow the wiki instructions to have ip forwarding enabled on your pc? Oct 31 15:31:56 yes i did Oct 31 15:32:16 shred: http://pastebin.com/m79548d3d Oct 31 15:32:18 shred: the file is named resolv.conf Oct 31 15:32:44 shred: $INET_IFACE obviously being something like eth0 Oct 31 15:32:59 Ghiottone|work: Good catch :) (I've managed to name it resolve.conf once, took ages to figure that one out) Oct 31 15:33:03 i got resolv.conf . resolv.config was a typo ...sorry Oct 31 15:33:47 i added a route on my pc but i cannot access anything from my neo Oct 31 15:34:18 shred: But pinging 192.168.0.200 works or? Oct 31 15:35:15 nope doesnt Oct 31 15:36:07 Hmm.. What does ifconfig say? Oct 31 15:36:26 On the neo (pastebin it) Oct 31 15:36:34 @CM: "not found" Oct 31 15:37:27 weird Oct 31 15:37:54 shred: Are you sure you are logged in to the Neo? Oct 31 15:38:06 What's the shell prompt? Oct 31 15:38:15 shred: try unplugging and reinserting the usb cable Oct 31 15:38:33 im using the shell on openmoko Oct 31 15:38:47 ...directly on the phone display Oct 31 15:39:27 Ah. When you type "ifconfig" there it *must* work however Oct 31 15:39:43 now it works ...hmm Oct 31 15:42:12 shred: When you do "lsusb" on the host, does it show the Neo? (it's just the ID, no name) Oct 31 15:43:22 heh, anyone else find it funny that a guy called steve is now head of marketing? Oct 31 15:43:32 blame userfriendly :) Oct 31 15:43:59 heh Oct 31 15:49:22 * abraxa_ starts the usual Neo resurrection Oct 31 15:49:33 ...and I only had it unplugged for a night, too :( Oct 31 15:50:14 abraxa_: I learned to unplug the battery for 10 seconds before going to bed Oct 31 15:50:47 Hiho LaF0rge :) Oct 31 15:50:55 hi laforge Oct 31 15:51:11 Ghiottone|work: That's why I don't usually take it off its life line ;) Oct 31 15:51:24 I guess I simply forgot Oct 31 15:51:33 hi all Oct 31 15:51:39 Heya don Oct 31 15:51:49 I'm popping in to see how development is coming. Oct 31 15:51:59 I can't wait for this phone! Oct 31 15:52:09 We all can't :) Oct 31 15:52:26 do you have one abraxa? Oct 31 15:52:35 you a developer? Oct 31 15:53:43 Do I win a prize if I say "yes" to both or do I get beatings because the phone is still not released? Oct 31 15:54:12 openmoko: 03thomas * r3311 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-dialer2/ (ChangeLog src/dialer/Makefile.am src/phone-kit/Makefile.am): Oct 31 15:54:12 openmoko: * src/dialer/Makefile.am: Oct 31 15:54:12 openmoko: * src/phone-kit/Makefile.am: Oct 31 15:54:12 openmoko: Add missing Makefile.am files to repository Oct 31 15:54:18 You can buy it off the site can't you? Oct 31 15:54:47 If your willing to take a phone that doesn't work yet. Oct 31 15:55:07 don_: not the GTA02 I believe Oct 31 15:55:20 Yeah, was refering to GTA02 Oct 31 15:56:16 Yes I know that, I was hoping to run into some developers here that could me some inside info. Oct 31 15:56:28 Inside info? Oct 31 15:56:46 Is it really going to be released in December? Oct 31 15:56:49 openmoko: 03thomas * r3312 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-dialer2/ (ChangeLog src/dialer/dialer-main.c): * src/dialer/dialer-main.c: Added to repository Oct 31 15:57:17 Since it was pushed back from October to November and now December. Oct 31 15:57:30 the web site isn't to encouraging Oct 31 15:57:43 "DO NOT expect to be able to use it as an everyday phone until December 2007 at the soonest, and probably later." Oct 31 15:57:48 Well, any date is unconfirmed as of now Oct 31 15:58:10 They need to figure out what to do themselves Oct 31 15:58:29 what do you mean abraxa? Oct 31 15:59:16 I mean that they set a new course and need to figure out how to go about things themselves Oct 31 15:59:16 We haven't heard anything from official OpenMoko sources about what is going on at the factory Oct 31 15:59:24 either Oct 31 15:59:58 I hate bugging you guys but what "new course" Oct 31 16:00:07 I would hate this to be vaporware Oct 31 16:00:20 It will be produced Oct 31 16:00:38 don_: http://www.vanille-media.de/site/index.php/blog/ Oct 31 16:00:40 Also they have enough money to make more devices too, even if GTA02 isn't a success Oct 31 16:02:05 I am going to have to read that blog Oct 31 16:02:27 don_: It's aggregated on planet.openmoko.org among others Oct 31 16:02:49 I have seen some of the entries Oct 31 16:05:49 it is still strange that they weren't able in 11 month to come up with a EULA for the gllin Oct 31 16:06:41 * zash wants phone! Oct 31 16:06:47 is that another hold up? The damn lawyers? Oct 31 16:06:49 hi, does anybody have an example of the gps output? Oct 31 16:07:21 can't be more than 10.000$ for a lawyer to come up with a EULA... I guess everyone who bought already a phone had happily paid $2 more... Oct 31 16:07:36 XXLT: it will be NMEA Oct 31 16:08:44 gamin: thanks, let me take a look ... Oct 31 16:08:47 that is if there will ever be a gllin released - the binary for the GPS chip Oct 31 16:10:02 gamin: It will be released, just that the owners of gllin's IP rights were/are being... let's just say stubborn Oct 31 16:10:39 That would be broadcom, which clarifies the situation for anyone who has followed broadcom's activities as it relates to opensource. Oct 31 16:13:55 the EULA is now an OpenMoko thing and no longer a broadcom thing - they have the go from broadcom. People have spend $1.000.000+ for the 3000 phones in order to support FIC. Oct 31 16:14:26 If FIC hadn't yet sold the phones they would get a EULA within an afternoon Oct 31 16:14:39 if that would be the blocker Oct 31 16:14:39 What network will this phone run on? Oct 31 16:14:51 don_: any GSM Oct 31 16:15:06 850 is not GSM? Oct 31 16:15:46 So I should be able to use this on Verizon. Oct 31 16:16:07 Just go in and buy a sim? Or use the sim out of my current phone? Oct 31 16:16:09 gamin: all possibly true. We don't know when FIC got the go-ahead from Broadcom, though. So the delay is not all due to FIC. But you are correct in that there is no real business reason any longer for FIC to bother with the gllin binary. I've said before that if one is released, it will be due to corporate charity, not business necessity. Oct 31 16:16:25 don_: I don't think verizon is GSM. Oct 31 16:16:32 rrrrrrrrrr Oct 31 16:16:47 don_, Verizon is CDMA/EVIL. Oct 31 16:17:06 oooh thats a killer Oct 31 16:17:24 I am in a pretty rural area and Verizon has the best coverage Oct 31 16:17:32 mwester: not screwing over developers. Screw over developers, where you hope for them to help write your software... Oct 31 16:17:56 SpeedEvil, I think he means business reason from Bcm. Oct 31 16:18:14 Ah Oct 31 16:18:16 yeah. Oct 31 16:18:19 Mek: No, 850 is not entirely GSM, and it is only GSM in north america. We are assuming that the GTA02 will do 850 and be a full quad-band phone; there is some hope that an upcoming firmware update may address the 850 problem with the GTA01, but FIC has not confirmed this. Oct 31 16:19:36 anybody here having the gllin binary btw? Oct 31 16:20:06 SpeedEvil: There are some at Openmoko who clearly understand the value of keeping the trust of the developer community by releasing the gllin binary. But the evidence available suggests to me that not everyone at FIC/Openmoko feels this way. Oct 31 16:20:32 mwester: Probably Oct 31 16:20:49 mwester: that is very much what I think too Oct 31 16:21:05 gllin :o Oct 31 16:21:39 so if it is a quad based phone then it should work with any provider in any country... correct? Oct 31 16:21:50 don_: any GSM provider. Oct 31 16:21:59 Sounds like Harald's holidays ended not so nice. Oct 31 16:22:29 Heh - I took his quit message to indicate that he doesn't want to hear what the community is thinking any longer. Oct 31 16:22:47 *nod* They are usually negative Oct 31 16:22:59 (The quit messages) Oct 31 16:23:03 mwester: Keep in mind that might've been in response to something on #om-devel, too. Oct 31 16:23:42 He's a huge proponent of open-source, so I suspect that he's battled the closed firmware and closed gllin driver issue internally until he's totally fed up with it, and the lawyers. Oct 31 16:24:09 I bet. Oct 31 16:24:26 according to mwebster it will be a quad based Oct 31 16:25:23 It seems clear that FIC and Openmoko employees are sworn to secrecy on certain issues, but it sure would put a lot of concerns to rest if someone would lay out a timeline with dates for both firmware upgrade and gllin, and confirm exactly what the GSM firmware upgrade wil fix and will not fix... :( Oct 31 16:25:47 bugs? Oct 31 16:25:49 in MY hardware? Oct 31 16:25:52 unpossible! Oct 31 16:26:12 that might actually be a big reason on the secrecy though Oct 31 16:26:18 <_buz> not releasing gllin would be f***** stupid Oct 31 16:26:18 not wanting to admit fault Oct 31 16:26:33 <_buz> unless, of course, the hardware itself doesnt really work Oct 31 16:26:34 but releasing it as oss would run afoul of ITAR Oct 31 16:27:00 anrp: That's an interesting angle (admitting fault) - I understand that in some cultures that's a *huge* problem (compared to others) Oct 31 16:28:02 no 850 and no GPS is kind of lame though Oct 31 16:28:09 * mwester notes that here in the US, companies just blame everything on the CEO, and fire him, rather than bothering to find out what *really* went wrong to fix it. Oct 31 16:28:09 850 is most of at&t/cingular Oct 31 16:28:14 t-mobile is 1900 Oct 31 16:28:51 850 has better propagation though Oct 31 16:29:52 Yep. So you'll find the higher frequencies used in the dense urban areas, where the coverage constraints are actually a *good* thing (keeps cells from interfering with one another so much). Oct 31 16:30:11 Unfortunately, everything outside of such areas is mostly 850 in North America. Oct 31 16:30:24 nod Oct 31 16:30:47 or AMPS Oct 31 16:30:50 but that's on its way out Oct 31 16:31:03 ... of course, if the carriers in N.A. had just gone with 900MHz like the rest of the world, this wouldn't be an issue... Oct 31 16:31:21 the US allocated 900 to ISM, it wasn't possible Oct 31 16:31:34 what's ISM? Oct 31 16:31:36 846-85x is ISM in europe Oct 31 16:31:44 2.4GHz is ISM (industrial scientific and medical) Oct 31 16:31:48 ISM = license free band Oct 31 16:31:54 interesting Oct 31 16:32:02 5.4GHz is also ISM Oct 31 16:32:07 er 5.8 Oct 31 16:32:42 not sure whats at 1800 Oct 31 16:32:43 So if I can't get t-mobile I can't get the openmoto? Oct 31 16:33:00 you still can, no guarentees it'll work though :P Oct 31 16:33:23 gta02 will Most Likely Work(tm) Oct 31 16:33:32 01 is ... iffy, at best Oct 31 16:33:55 don_: Not to be a PITA but OpenMoko is the software, the Neo1973 is the hardware ;) Oct 31 16:34:26 theres the mystery hxrd(?) in the pipeline Oct 31 16:34:35 i kind of wish there was a better looking phone to develop for Oct 31 16:34:36 openmoko: 03chris * r3313 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-worldclock2/ (ChangeLog configure.ac src/Makefile.am src/worldclock-main.c): (log message trimmed) Oct 31 16:34:36 openmoko: * configure.ac: Oct 31 16:34:36 openmoko: * src/Makefile.am: Oct 31 16:34:36 openmoko: Remove libnotify dependency Oct 31 16:34:36 openmoko: * src/worldclock-main.c: (zoom_map), (settings_clicked_cb), Oct 31 16:34:37 openmoko: (map_button_press_event_cb), (main): Oct 31 16:34:41 openmoko: Add a digital clock option to the settings dialog, put the world map in Oct 31 16:34:42 The HXD8 is not a phone, though Oct 31 16:34:45 ... at least you don't have to get orange Oct 31 16:34:58 OK, I stand corrected. Oct 31 16:35:06 well, I guess the plentiful details that have been supplied about it didn't metion that Oct 31 16:35:07 <_buz> abraxa_: do we really know it isnt? Oct 31 16:35:09 :p Oct 31 16:35:47 but is my statement correct? No T-Mobile no Neo1973 Oct 31 16:35:48 mwester, what is a reason that soem people in FIC / Openmoko don't want to release the gllin binary? Oct 31 16:35:51 _buz: Yeah, either roh, mickey or Sean confirmed it - I forgot who and where Oct 31 16:36:21 don_: T-Mobile or AT&T, yup (for you North American peeps anyway) Oct 31 16:36:36 er Oct 31 16:36:40 at&t = cingular Oct 31 16:36:59 So looks like my dream of having this phone have been dashed. Oct 31 16:37:06 until december, at least Oct 31 16:37:17 i'd be very surprised if gta02 didn't do quad Oct 31 16:37:20 gamin: It costs money to say "Hello" to a lawyer. Oct 31 16:37:41 anrp are you commenting on me Oct 31 16:37:46 some time ago I believe it was said that the legal issues had been worked out... Oct 31 16:37:48 ya Oct 31 16:37:50 quad would work on all networks correct? Oct 31 16:37:53 yes Oct 31 16:38:03 well, except japan, but they don't do 2g gsm anyway so :p Oct 31 16:38:19 mwester - I had paid 20$ more to get the gps running... and I'm most likely not the only one Oct 31 16:38:29 paid? Oct 31 16:38:39 Mek: yep, the issues with Broadcom. Now, apparently, we all wait for a blood-sucking lawyer to write up an EULA. Oct 31 16:39:05 ah, the issues that the driver just doesn't work with the ABI have been resolved as well than? Oct 31 16:39:10 don_: If by "on all networks" you mean "on all GSM networks" - which excludes Verizon Oct 31 16:39:27 mm yeah, its gsm only, that's true Oct 31 16:39:38 there are a very limited number of CDMA/GSM phones (although they do exist) Oct 31 16:39:49 Then there's the issue of how we all agree to the EULA -- does this mean that it's a document in the tar file with the driver, or will the lawyer insist on a click-through license scheme to agree to the EULA before the end user can download the gllin binary? Oct 31 16:39:50 quoting mwebster " No, 850 is not entirely GSM, and it is only GSM in north america. We are assuming that the GTA02 will do 850 and be a full quad-band phone; there is some hope that an upcoming firmware update may address the 850 problem with the GTA01, but FIC has not confirmed this." Oct 31 16:40:03 not entirely gsm? Oct 31 16:40:07 that's an odd way to put it Oct 31 16:40:39 There are other services than GSM on 850. It's shared. Oct 31 16:40:44 so abraxa your saying it will not be quad based. while mwebster and anrp says it will be Oct 31 16:41:15 gta01 does not currently support 850MHz Oct 31 16:41:22 gta02 should, but that's not confirmed Oct 31 16:41:24 don_: It will be quad-band indeed, however that means it will support 4 different GSM frequencies - not different network protocols Oct 31 16:41:28 gta01 *may* get an fw update to enable 850 Oct 31 16:41:37 OH I get it. Oct 31 16:41:47 sorry being such a dumb ass Oct 31 16:41:47 :) Oct 31 16:41:50 No worries Oct 31 16:42:00 and a bit faster GPRS would be nice - i.e. EDGE Oct 31 16:42:12 that's not in the cards Oct 31 16:42:41 Let's wait and see how GTA02 fares first ;) Oct 31 16:43:54 meh. I'm resigned to what I have. T-Mobile works from my home, I have a Treo for my real phone, and I just bought an external USB GPS receiver. I hope to pleasantly surprised with what my GTA01 may do in the future, but I've learned not to hold my breath when lawyer are involved. Lawyers are the type of people who enjoy watching others turn blue. Oct 31 16:45:22 ooh Oct 31 16:45:23 harsh Oct 31 16:45:35 as you mention USB receiver: does anybody know a source to buy a powered usb hub in europe? Oct 31 16:50:06 a powered usb hub? I guess every onlinestore should offer such hubs. Oct 31 16:50:19 openmoko: 03thomas * r3314 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-dialer2/ (3 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed) Oct 31 16:50:19 openmoko: * src/phone-kit/moko-dialer.c: (moko_dialer_hung_up), Oct 31 16:50:19 openmoko: (moko_dialer_rejected), (on_talking_reject_call), Oct 31 16:50:19 openmoko: (moko_dialer_init): Oct 31 16:50:19 openmoko: * src/phone-kit/moko-talking.c: (moko_talking_incoming_call), Oct 31 16:50:23 openmoko: (moko_talking_outgoing_call), (moko_talking_accepted_call), Oct 31 16:50:26 openmoko: (on_answer_clicked), (on_reject_clicked), Oct 31 16:51:38 thomasg: a battery powered one, without a need for a 240V outlet... Oct 31 16:51:54 gamin, not sure about battery powered Oct 31 16:52:00 but most take 6 - 12v or so Oct 31 16:52:07 with just a converter brick Oct 31 16:52:26 gamin: oh, ok, batterypowered is not as easy to find :) Oct 31 16:53:42 There seems only to be Cyberpower CP-H420MP, but I couldn't find any shop that ships to Europe. And then there is a company named Everfast in HongKong, but the sell minimum 2000 units :) Oct 31 16:54:12 I am in tough shape, At&t claims great coverage but most people complain of dropped calls and dead spots Oct 31 16:54:54 don_: Check the user group pages on the wiki, maybe there's someone in your area Oct 31 16:56:32 don_: at&t is allowed to lie to you, naturally Oct 31 16:56:46 gamin: http://www.komplett.de/k/ki.aspx?sku=324662 Oct 31 16:56:58 it's a german shop Oct 31 16:57:40 it's not the modell you mentioned, but similar Oct 31 16:58:33 T-mobile even on their coverage maps shows no service for my home. Oct 31 16:59:34 thomasg: I saw that shop already and considered to ask them to get the battery powered version Oct 31 17:00:37 gamin: damn, I thought that would be the battery-powered version :( Oct 31 17:01:47 amazon.com doesn't ship to europe, either? Oct 31 17:02:07 thomasg: nope, not electronics Oct 31 17:02:23 it does with books. Oct 31 17:04:12 gamin: what you could try is to ask the guys from geekstuff4u.com to take the usb-hub into their assortment Oct 31 17:04:46 they ship from japan to europe for moderate fees, with a group purchase it should be no prob at all Oct 31 17:09:35 thomasg: thx, I'll look into it. Oct 31 17:10:34 gamin: tell me if you know something. I'd be interested, too Oct 31 17:12:11 thomasg: a pure charger do it yourself is: http://www.ladyada.net/make/mintyboost/ Oct 31 17:12:43 And I found somewhere else a do it yourself usb power-injector Oct 31 17:13:08 anyone see the video of the new media player? Oct 31 17:14:22 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_BUMhJKlxJA Oct 31 17:15:10 gamin: is there a device that doesn't fit in to a penguin-peppermint-box? :) Oct 31 17:29:31 don_: Haha nice... thanks for the hint Oct 31 17:33:13 greetings Oct 31 17:37:04 openmoko: 03thomas * r3315 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-dialer2/ (ChangeLog src/phone-kit/moko-talking.c): * src/phone-kit/moko-talking.c: Replace manual animation functions with GdkPixbufSimpleAnim Oct 31 17:44:15 Time to play with QVGA again... Oct 31 17:49:58 anyone here got theirs running? Oct 31 17:52:41 Yeah, always Oct 31 17:55:31 abraxa hows the reception? Antenna work well? Oct 31 17:55:52 Yeah it does, though I'm not surprised Oct 31 17:56:00 I live in Germany after all :) Oct 31 17:56:05 ahhh Oct 31 17:56:12 We only have GSM here Oct 31 17:56:45 English your first or second language? Oct 31 17:57:11 Second, like most of the German peeps here Oct 31 17:57:19 everyone worldwide is taught english from birth, isn't it?! Oct 31 17:57:26 well you write it very well... I had no idea Oct 31 17:57:33 (yes, deliberate mangling of the sentence) Oct 31 17:57:47 Not us here in the US :) Oct 31 17:57:49 Thanks, don ;) Oct 31 18:04:34 anyone here in the states have theirs running and give me some idea of reception? Oct 31 18:06:26 don_: Trying to figure out if it'll work for you? Oct 31 18:08:27 If I use T-Mobile or At&T it will work Oct 31 18:08:59 At&T says they service my area but T-Mobile has zero service Oct 31 18:09:46 AT&T has spotty service so if this phone has great reception I can use it. Oct 31 18:10:18 I was thinking of switching after using the iPhone but I would much rather have an open phone than some crapple product. Oct 31 18:10:20 Yeah, though if you want to be on the safe side you can ask a friend of yours with an AT&T/T-Mobile contract to pass by your place and the area you are roaming around most of the time Oct 31 18:10:28 * abraxa_ cheers Oct 31 18:10:29 <_buz> so HXD8 IS has a phone Oct 31 18:10:42 That's the kind of consumer opinion we need on this planet Oct 31 18:12:17 absolutely, I use only oss for my computers I would love to use it on my phone tool Oct 31 18:12:19 too. Oct 31 18:19:58 i just hope the gta02 is out for christmas :D Oct 31 18:23:22 my birthday is four days before Christmas... I want it then! Oct 31 18:30:52 anyone know if you can make voice calls with a GSM modem? Oct 31 18:32:12 anyone? Oct 31 18:32:31 If you supply audio to the GSM chip, sure Oct 31 18:33:06 I assume you're refering to Thomas' blog entry? Oct 31 18:33:30 no... well I was thinking of building a handheld computer with those new VIA pic-itx boards Oct 31 18:33:37 and making it into a cell phone would be nice Oct 31 18:33:46 pico-itx, sorry Oct 31 18:34:31 Do you have a GSM modem picked out that you want to attach? Oct 31 18:34:52 Cause if you're thinking of a GPRS PCMCIA card or the like then you probably won't have much luck Oct 31 18:34:58 no, I'm still trying to figure out if it is feasible Oct 31 18:35:07 ok Oct 31 18:35:47 thanks for the info Oct 31 18:36:23 Well, you could always hook up a Neo to the board ;) Oct 31 18:37:20 there are gprs cf cards with analog audio input/output. Oct 31 18:39:40 yeah? so would this be using a SIM card or what? Oct 31 18:40:40 if it's gprs, it's gsm, so it's using a sim Oct 31 18:40:53 good evening Oct 31 18:41:02 ok... and I would want it to use my voice minutes, not data Oct 31 18:41:20 is there software out there for calling via GSM modems? Oct 31 18:41:27 because the image for qemu didn't worked i tried to install the moko makefile. but there is a probem with make setup: Oct 31 18:41:40 ( svn co -r HEAD svn://svn.berlios.de/bitbake/tags/bitbake-1.8.8 bitbake ) Oct 31 18:41:40 svn: Kann nicht mit Host »svn.berlios.de« verbinden: Verbindungsaufbau abgelehnt Oct 31 18:41:48 tushyd, umm, sanity check: do you want to transfer data over a GSM voice call Oct 31 18:42:09 mean: cannot make a connection to svn.berilios.de Oct 31 18:42:24 but a ping to berilios works Oct 31 18:42:24 you can (its called CSD) but some networks don't allow it Oct 31 18:42:34 anrp, CSD are not voice calls. Oct 31 18:42:37 CSD allows data over voice channel, direct to another mobile or to a landline modem Oct 31 18:42:47 CSD uses a circuit, same as voice Oct 31 18:42:52 gprs is packet Oct 31 18:43:14 csd is billed per minute like voice and uses the same network bandwidth as a voice call Oct 31 18:43:19 yes it's circuit switched, yes voice is also circuit switched, this does not make CSD calls voice calls Oct 31 18:43:26 sorry, i'm a little out of it today Oct 31 18:43:27 they're the same class of call Oct 31 18:43:30 is what i mean Oct 31 18:43:34 unlike packet... Oct 31 18:43:45 is there anyone who could help me? Oct 31 18:44:04 and what I'm asking is if tushyd has some fantasy of transmitting data over GSM voice calls spesifically Oct 31 18:44:34 tricky.. you'd have to try and fool the modulator Oct 31 18:44:51 'cause that ain't gonna happen (well, you can, maybe even >1000 bps, with sneaky modulation) Oct 31 18:44:53 unless the modem supports online switching to data mode (haven't seen many that do) Oct 31 18:45:38 no, I just miss typed.... I was just making sure that making calls wouldn't use data because I can't afford it Oct 31 18:45:58 it shouldn't? Oct 31 18:46:18 if you place a GSM voice call using a GSM "modem", it will naturally do just that, and not place a data call Oct 31 18:46:46 ok, thanks. Oct 31 18:47:04 ..don't let the door hit you on the way out Oct 31 18:47:06 thomasgruebler, i got connection refused too Oct 31 18:47:25 enjahova: ok then it could be a server problem Oct 31 18:47:32 thanks Oct 31 18:47:35 yeah Oct 31 18:48:35 everyday i want to do something there's a problem :D Oct 31 18:48:54 can you find alternate server? Oct 31 18:49:22 do you mean for the whole project? Oct 31 18:50:03 maybe sourceforge or tuxfamily offers good services. i'm useing sourceforge for my own projects without problems Oct 31 18:50:13 no for the bitbake part Oct 31 18:51:44 i'm not sure. maybe we find a commerzial hoster. hetzner.de for example is listened on many projects as hoster. Oct 31 18:52:49 <_buz> i can recommend hetzner Oct 31 19:06:41 anyone else use xephyr Oct 31 19:06:42 ? Oct 31 19:06:48 i just got it working, but its missing some images Oct 31 19:07:46 and this sounds really noob, but how do you quit calculator with just the stylus? Oct 31 19:07:59 (er mouse in my case) Oct 31 19:09:18 I don't think you can Oct 31 19:09:56 now im stuck in the calendar Oct 31 19:09:58 If you're running matchbox however you can switch to openmoko-today by clicking the top left bar Oct 31 19:10:09 From there you can kill it Oct 31 19:11:35 matchbox? Oct 31 19:12:38 hi Oct 31 19:14:11 enjahova: Yeah, the window manager OM uss Oct 31 19:14:12 uses* Oct 31 19:14:20 oh, i think i saw that Oct 31 19:14:27 it kinda bugged out on me =\ Oct 31 19:14:30 i followed this: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Getting_OpenMoko_working_on_host_with_Xephyr Oct 31 19:14:44 is there a likely reason it doesn't seem to be themed correctly? Oct 31 19:17:03 No idea, sorry Oct 31 19:17:10 eh Oct 31 19:17:34 i'll just mess with it a lil more Oct 31 19:17:42 Though I do wonder why matchbox gives you troubles Oct 31 19:17:50 just trying to set up best environment for app development Oct 31 19:25:06 is OpenMoko supposed to crash every five minutes? Oct 31 19:25:16 Or am I being singled out for punishment? Oct 31 19:26:43 cool, xoo works too Oct 31 19:26:55 nelson, it's a feature. Oct 31 19:30:06 jeddy3: You had questions regarding QVGA? Oct 31 19:30:23 * nelson uninstalls it. Oct 31 19:30:37 I'm gonna try upgrading. Oct 31 19:30:39 abraxa_, ah yes! Oct 31 19:30:50 jeddy3: What do you want to know? Oct 31 19:31:27 Something is confused. It keeps downloading gtk+-fastscaling Oct 31 19:31:33 abraxa_, just wondered if someone had knowledge about it...i'm trying to enable qvga and i get purple artifacts all over screen Oct 31 19:31:43 In fact, every other package it downlods is gtk+-fastscaling. Oct 31 19:32:13 jeddy3: When you do "echo qvga-normal > /sys/devices/platform/s3c24xx-spi-gpio.1/spi0.0/state; cat /sys/devices/platform/s3c24xx-spi-gpio.1/spi0.0/state" - does it show qvga-normal or normal? Oct 31 19:32:42 abraxa_, i'll have to check that... Oct 31 19:33:16 jeddy3: It's not purple btw, it's blue and red alternating - it's a nice effect to toy around with ;) Oct 31 19:33:36 abraxa_, aah, my bad :D Oct 31 19:34:02 Oh, I didn't notice it at first either... only when I moved my hand over it rather swiftly, hehe Oct 31 19:34:37 xephyr/xoo doesn't seem to be getting gtk theme for openmoko =\ Oct 31 19:35:00 Hi abraxa_! :) Oct 31 19:36:54 Hiho Elrond! :D Oct 31 19:37:04 abraxa_, hmm, neo is dead as usual :), will have to get back on that with gpio state Oct 31 19:37:15 jeddy3: Alrighty Oct 31 19:37:42 abraxa_, is it possible that state change didn't have any effect? and in that case, what to do? Oct 31 19:42:46 GTA02v4 thorough evaluation by OpenMoko internal developers - IN PROGRESS Oct 31 19:42:47 yay Oct 31 19:43:13 ohh Oct 31 19:43:21 does this mean its on schedule? Oct 31 19:43:32 => it may still release in december? Oct 31 19:45:08 Oct 31 20:44:53 baerbel sendmail[4033]: l9VJirHM004033: to=oo.o@windbuechse.samba-tng.org, ctladdr=tacke (304/204), delay=00:00:00, xdelay=00:00:00, mailer=relay, pri=30332, relay=[127.0.0.1] [127.0.0.1], dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent (l9VJirT1004035 Message accepted for delivery) Oct 31 19:45:14 wua. Oct 31 19:45:23 krLun, hopefully, december looks promsing :) Oct 31 19:45:23 hi elrond Oct 31 19:45:41 jeddy3: Yes, that's what I wanted to check with the two commands I gave you. If the state still reads "normal" (i.e. VGA) then your kernel doesn't have the QVGA patches Oct 31 19:45:44 Hi woglinde! :-) Oct 31 19:46:30 cb22: Where did you read that? Oct 31 19:46:37 abraxa_, the wiki Oct 31 19:46:41 michael updated it Oct 31 19:46:44 Ahh Oct 31 19:47:02 Welp, that's good then :) Oct 31 19:47:07 yep :) Oct 31 19:47:10 Though it's no real news, lol Oct 31 19:47:18 if its only roughly 2 months until release, shouldn't you be able to pre-order soon?!:) Oct 31 19:47:29 i so DO NOT want to miss out on the first batch of GTA02 Oct 31 19:48:37 krLun, same here Oct 31 19:48:44 * cb22 hopes the web shop wont suffer too bad Oct 31 19:49:22 i wonder if december 25 means the date they start shipping, or the date when you may place you pre-order Oct 31 19:49:27 I'm pretty sure it will get slashdotted ;) Oct 31 19:49:33 yeah Oct 31 19:49:34 damn it Oct 31 19:49:38 i'm gonna write a script Oct 31 19:49:45 that will query the webshop every half an hour Oct 31 19:49:48 and if anything has changed Oct 31 19:49:57 sms / call / hit me over the head Oct 31 19:50:00 lol Oct 31 19:51:00 ill just pay some asian guy to reload the page every minute and tell me whenever something interesting happens Oct 31 19:51:05 :) Oct 31 19:51:13 haha Oct 31 19:51:26 HUMAN COMPUTATIONS, its the future Oct 31 19:52:42 krLun: http://www.mturk.com Oct 31 19:53:49 lol, i read "myturk.com" Oct 31 19:54:12 www.penisland.com :) Oct 31 19:54:27 that must be the worst domain name ever Oct 31 19:54:35 i'd shoot the marketing guys Oct 31 19:54:54 hmm, www.penisland.org Oct 31 19:54:56 my bad Oct 31 19:55:14 think of the amount of traffic it gets from people laughing at it Oct 31 19:55:18 argh Oct 31 19:55:19 .net Oct 31 19:55:27 surely at least one of them has bought a pen once :) Oct 31 19:55:31 hehe Oct 31 19:55:31 You mean pen-island.com? Oct 31 19:55:39 nope, penisland.net Oct 31 19:55:49 http://www.penisland.net you can buy sample pens Oct 31 19:55:53 well, *THEY* mean pen-island.net? Oct 31 19:55:58 i mean, what else did you think there was? Oct 31 19:56:25 i prefer powergenitalia Oct 31 19:56:49 * ljp plugs in neo Oct 31 19:57:33 Are gtk+ and gtk+-fastscaling equivalent packages? Oct 31 19:58:05 hi ljp Oct 31 20:00:13 Or, rather, to put it a different way, "ipkg upgrade" tries to install gtk+-fastscaling and yet it has the same files as gtk+. Oct 31 20:02:00 I searched in the wiki and it says nothing. Oct 31 20:04:17 woglinde: hello Oct 31 20:05:23 Ahhh, I see, that's been covered already, a week and some ago: http://logs.nslu2-linux.org/livelogs/openmoko/openmoko.20071023.txt Oct 31 20:05:42 Hey, TimRiker. Oct 31 20:06:04 * cb22 hasn't been around for a while, any news on suspend-resume? Oct 31 20:07:35 cb22: No news that I've seen, certainly nothing by way of kernel updates for suspend/resume (and I think that requires some kernel work yet) Oct 31 20:09:46 abraxa_, no, you're right...state change doesn't happen :| Oct 31 20:10:44 jeddy3: Yeah, the QVGA patch isn't included in current kernels Oct 31 20:11:49 jeddy3: Maybe... maybe if you make mwester some sweet eyes... Oct 31 20:12:02 abraxa_, :D Oct 31 20:12:34 * ljp got a remote thats a usb device Oct 31 20:13:23 abraxa_, i thought i had it, because something changed with newly compiled images, before it didn't even do anything :P Oct 31 20:14:09 Unfortunately not the required (new) patch Oct 31 20:15:14 Ahhhh, I think I know why OpenMoko hates me: I asked it for full power management. Oct 31 20:15:28 That would be my bad, now wouldn't it? Oct 31 20:19:31 nelson: I didn't have any problems with that setting myself Oct 31 20:21:54 nelson, abraxa_, yeah sometimes (about 50% :P) it's having trouble waking up from suspend Oct 31 20:22:01 for me that is Oct 31 20:22:48 We need to figure that out, I guess. But first I need to add QVGA to the kernel, I'm told. :P Oct 31 20:23:01 * abraxa_ looks around innocently and whistles Oct 31 20:23:25 mwester, :D Oct 31 20:35:13 suggestions on what kernel and rootfs to install? Oct 31 20:35:52 nelson: mwester's kernel + up-to-date rootfs from ScaredyCat's repo Oct 31 20:37:26 tnx. Oct 31 20:44:06 abraxa_: can you express the same in terms of URLs for us mere mortals? :) Oct 31 20:44:47 or maybe there's RecommendedKernelAndRootfs on the wiki already? :) Oct 31 20:45:14 (i can find scaredycat's repo, but what about mwester?) Oct 31 20:47:21 http://moko.mwester.net Oct 31 20:48:52 ty Oct 31 20:49:09 yw Oct 31 20:49:09 ;) Oct 31 20:50:06 is mwester's rootfs any bad or good? Oct 31 20:50:13 or just slightly oldish? Oct 31 20:50:35 Neither, just ScaredyCat puts some more stuff into his Oct 31 20:50:44 e.g. time zones Oct 31 20:51:16 ScaredyCat has good stuff, I just hack on the kernel (and on things like gsmd from time to time). Oct 31 20:51:34 * mwester uses ScaredyCat's repo for ipkg updates Oct 31 20:51:35 ic Oct 31 20:52:08 anything interesting gsmd-related in your kernel? i couldn't make mine say a word after a first at-command sent to it Oct 31 20:52:14 Perfect symbiosis in my opinion :) Oct 31 20:52:20 The only thing to watch out for is kernel/module mismatches. The modules are in the rootfs, so if you get a kernel and rootfs that don't match in that regard, it won't boot correctly. Oct 31 20:52:53 it matches only on the kernel version (i.e. uname -r), right? Oct 31 20:52:57 berkus: No gsmd changes right now. Oct 31 20:53:02 Yep, uname -r Oct 31 20:53:14 ok, i'll keep torturing gsmd here :) Oct 31 20:53:28 hehe! Oct 31 20:54:48 is there an easy way to check out which kernel version modules does a rootfs contain? Oct 31 20:55:23 There's nothing in the name that would directly tell you, at present. Oct 31 20:56:26 hmm.. and seems i'm missing a jffs2 driver on my desktop pc. do you know if there's a fuse module to mount jffs2 without much fuss? Oct 31 20:56:56 I know of no changes in recent weeks that would cause breakages (something was committed last night, but i don't think that would cause a module version problem -- I can check, though :) Oct 31 20:57:59 ok, i'll just burn it straight into the neo ;) Oct 31 20:58:54 also of the packages on scaredycat's repo which name to choose (what is the difference anyway?): scaredycat-openmoko-devel-image-fic-gta01.jffs2 vs OpenMoko-scaredycat-openmoko-devel-image-glibc-ipk-P1-Snapshot-20071029-fic-gta01.rootfs.jffs2? Oct 31 21:25:09 gn8 Oct 31 21:44:36 hola Oct 31 22:24:59 news of the next generation FIC device (HXD8) in the community list Oct 31 22:29:54 erm, url? Oct 31 22:30:13 add it to the /topic Oct 31 22:30:16 there is no topic lock Oct 31 22:48:18 news of the next generation FIC device (HXD8) in the community list Oct 31 22:48:20 dash express? Oct 31 22:48:23 berkus there is no url, it was an email on community list Oct 31 22:48:33 El_Salvador, it seems so Oct 31 22:48:44 El_Salvador, but it's the first time I see the dash name Oct 31 22:48:48 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Community_Updates Oct 31 22:48:52 me too Oct 31 22:49:00 this is a new page made by roh Oct 31 22:50:34 El_Salvador, it seems pretty interesting though. especially for the mashup part Oct 31 22:50:58 http://radar.oreilly.com/archives/2007/10/dash_web2summit_openmoko.html Oct 31 22:51:22 yeah I was reading that Oct 31 23:02:32 El_Salvador: that explains why FIC is not opening the GPS... Oct 31 23:04:39 gamin, what do you mean by not opening? Oct 31 23:05:40 Ghiottone: as mwester said, there are forces inside of Fic / openmoko who do not want to get the gllin out Oct 31 23:06:31 oh. that is unexpected for me Oct 31 23:06:37 s/is/was/ Oct 31 23:06:38 Ghiottone meant: oh. that was unexpected for me Oct 31 23:06:54 the eula stuff is a red herring Oct 31 23:07:55 gamin: "that explains" - what does? Oct 31 23:08:45 abraxa_: the dash gps is an openmoko/fic phone, internet connected Oct 31 23:08:54 gamin, what do you mean? Oct 31 23:09:23 gamin: Yes, and? That doesn't explain why gllin shouldn't be made available Oct 31 23:10:09 gamin: let me clarify what I meant: the evidence is that there are factors within FIC/openmoko who do not wish to spend money -- and do not see the value of releasing the gllin driver Oct 31 23:12:29 mwester the money IS already spent. Oct 31 23:13:24 mwester: i have bought a neo with gps functionality ... but i cannot used it Oct 31 23:14:57 roh, time is money, and in my experience companies the size of openmoko would get lawyer's time from the parent company (fic) - eventually the priority that lawyer gives to the EULA is driven by who ever pays that lawyer, and it's been many months that the EULA has been waiting... I'm just observing the obvious. Oct 31 23:15:39 mwester: that is not business as i understand Oct 31 23:16:40 I'm still desperately hoping that the openmoko crew (who I know want this released) will win out and get the lawyers to commit the time necessary to give the community a (legal) driver. We just grow impatient. Oct 31 23:18:39 heck, *I'll* write an EULA. I've seen enough of those documents and been involved in a few of those negotiations. Give me the job. Oct 31 23:18:52 whoa, mega liability there :p Oct 31 23:18:54 mwester, what exactly is the problem? Oct 31 23:19:24 krLun: nothing new, same old issue. Just impatient. Oct 31 23:20:13 anrp: Standard lawyer disclaimer will be written into it: "I, the lawyer, accept no liability for anything at all." :D :P Oct 31 23:20:36 When was the last time a lawyer actually got sued, instead of the employer? ;) Oct 31 23:20:57 will we be able to use the GPS of GTA02 at all with the current state of things? Oct 31 23:21:06 or will it "just" mean that we can only use a binary driver? Oct 31 23:21:19 The GTA02 GPS will be "standard", no special anything required. :) Oct 31 23:21:41 i thought gllin was the gps driver? Oct 31 23:21:49 It is, but only for the GTA01. Oct 31 23:21:51 oh Oct 31 23:25:10 are we even able to use GPS yet? GTA01? Oct 31 23:25:40 Not legally, at least where I live. I'm told that it works very well though. Oct 31 23:25:47 * daMaestro blah Oct 31 23:26:43 abraxa_: How do I test a kernel with qvga support? Oct 31 23:27:14 * XorA|gone really should get round to using gllin Oct 31 23:27:19 mwester: "echo qvga-normal > /sys/devices/platform/s3c24xx-spi-gpio.1/spi0.0/state; cat /sys/devices/platform/s3c24xx-spi-gpio.1/spi0.0/state" says "qvga-normal" Oct 31 23:28:08 :) It says "qvga-normal" Oct 31 23:28:11 Yay! Oct 31 23:28:29 With "normal" you switch back to VGA Oct 31 23:29:00 I had to transform the code you pointed me toward into a patch on a patch... but it seems to work. The screen is pretty funky - I expect I shouldn't do that while X is running, huh? Oct 31 23:29:20 Hehe yeah Oct 31 23:29:27 Doesn't really matter, though Oct 31 23:29:44 Oh, but it recovers nicely when you set it to "normal". Oct 31 23:30:01 Sweet. This should make a lot of things much faster, if you don't need the resolution. Oct 31 23:30:10 btw, does the neo have a GPS antenna connection? and if so, what connection is it? MMCX? Oct 31 23:31:30 abraxa_: is there a more generic way one would usually put the device into qvga mode -- the "echo" is a bit obscure ;) Oct 31 23:32:03 mwester: Actually, there are several steps involved as of now - it'll change later, I'm sure Oct 31 23:33:15 ok. the kernel patches work at least. Oct 31 23:33:23 Thanks :) Oct 31 23:33:51 krLun: Yes, you can connect it if you drill a hole into the case ;) Oct 31 23:33:53 I'll upload the kernel in the next few hours. Oct 31 23:34:29 Sure, just don't stress out Oct 31 23:34:48 krLun the socket right from the usb socket, the golden one is gps including 3V Âpower for an active antenna Oct 31 23:35:21 OFFICIAL UPDATE !! Oct 31 23:35:23 horaaaaay Oct 31 23:35:44 * mwester suspects that CVirus read the wiki update... Oct 31 23:35:51 not yet Oct 31 23:35:52 reading Oct 31 23:36:24 where? Oct 31 23:36:45 krLun, see the topi Oct 31 23:36:50 s/top/topic/ Oct 31 23:36:50 Ghiottone meant: krLun, see the topici Oct 31 23:37:52 mwester, 2.6.23 kernel? Oct 31 23:40:52 roh: Just wondering... one the one hand it's said that the Neo lacks FCC approval in the 850MHz band which is why it was disabled - but it's also said that the lack of 850MHz support could be "a combination of hardware and software" issues. That sounds contradicting to me as I would assume 850MHz support is working but was merely disabled Oct 31 23:40:59 Can you shed some light on this? Oct 31 23:41:42 abraxa_: hmm wasn't there a problem with TI Calypso firmware preventing it from working in 850MHz band? Oct 31 23:41:47 abraxa_ not yet in detail.. but i seems to be an issue with how 'quad band' is to be intrepreted in the datasheets. Oct 31 23:43:55 Interesting... quite frankly I didn't expect OM to do such a mess-up - I got the impression they designed GSM circuitry before after all :) Oct 31 23:47:26 of course only a tiny portion of potential customers are affected by the 850MHz issue... Oct 31 23:47:31 Ghiottone: Nope, just a patched 2.6.21 kernel. The 2.6.23-devel kernel builds, but I'm not sure what works and doesn't. Oct 31 23:47:54 a tiny? Oct 31 23:48:01 by number, sure, but thats about half the US market Oct 31 23:48:03 roh: is the 850 MHz issue a problem for GTA01 only, or is GTA02 also affected? Oct 31 23:48:55 more than half of the North American market. Pretty much all of the rural and less-dense areas are 850MHz, regardless of carrier. Oct 31 23:50:17 So unless you live, work, and limit your travel to the really big cities, a lack of 850MHz is a significant limitation. Oct 31 23:50:29 nod Oct 31 23:50:35 mwester, I see. I was thinking about learning to hack the kernel. And as a sample project I thought about adding /proc/diskstats to the mtd driver but could not find any documentation on /proc/diskstat. do you know where could I look? Oct 31 23:51:35 mtd isn't a disk, not sure that mapping would make sense... Oct 31 23:51:51 That's what I was thinking, but perhaps there's an analog Oct 31 23:51:52 although stats for mtdblock would be ok Oct 31 23:51:56 since that's a block dev Oct 31 23:52:03 Yep. Oct 31 23:52:50 but if you're interested, grep will probably help you a lot :o Oct 31 23:53:05 id just grep for diskstats and start backtracking from there... Oct 31 23:54:23 anrp, about the sense, mtd developers told me the same thing Oct 31 23:54:41 anrp, but adding stats to the mtdblock drivers could help as I need those stats for bootcharts Oct 31 23:55:12 anrp, also I grep'd the sources but could not find anything Oct 31 23:55:38 eh really? Oct 31 23:56:02 mmontour same with gta02.. for now. but that also means its a generic solution for both when found Oct 31 23:56:25 mmontour the gsm section is identical on gta01 and gta02 Oct 31 23:57:45 mwester: but i think you see that it is really unlucky that the us uses minimal nonstandard frequency ranges nearly everywhere when it comes to phones Oct 31 23:57:53 OK, thanks. Hope it gets fixed in time for the GTA02 shipment... Oct 31 23:58:06 roh, do you think it will be possible to have some even not fully working gps driver to show something at TeleMobilityForum conference? Oct 31 23:58:42 roh, date is 15 november IIRC Oct 31 23:58:50 Ghiottone: blockdev/genhd.c contains the logic behind the aggregate stats Oct 31 23:58:53 roh: absolutely right; if US and Canada had adopted 900MHz like the rest of the world, then there would only be need for tri-band phones. Oct 31 23:59:05 Ghiottone i sincerly don't know Oct 31 23:59:10 also, fs/proc/proc_misc.c contains some logic for it Oct 31 23:59:29 mwester no.. if they also would have used 1800 instead of 1900 we only need 2 Oct 31 23:59:33 ;) Nov 01 00:00:04 Unfortunately, that's not how it ended up, so regardless of how uncomfortable the questions might be, there is a valid reason for people to ask about the frequency abilities of the GTA02 (and the GTA01 as well)... Nov 01 00:00:12 * roh remembers the old time gsm phones in his childhood... big as a briefcase.. the first few gsm900 devices Nov 01 00:02:42 back in the good old days eh? Nov 01 00:03:00 roh, ok thanks Nov 01 00:03:28 anrp, I think that those function are for showing the stats (i.e. cat /proc/diskstats) but how about populating the data? Nov 01 00:03:56 diskstats_show in genhd.c Nov 01 00:04:20 it just uses generic disk stats already in the structures .. Nov 01 00:07:16 Ghiottone: I could probably write you a GPS demo that could figure out which continent you were on Nov 01 00:07:53 the precision you can get these days, its amazing D: Nov 01 00:08:02 eheheh Nov 01 00:08:17 well mmontour it could be helpful thanks Nov 01 00:08:59 You'd also have to be outdoors with a good view of the sky for it to work. Nov 01 00:10:28 mmontour, will it keep it info for some time? Nov 01 00:10:29 anrp: So far nobody's managed to extract the GPS navigation message, so you can only measure the Doppler freq of the carriers Nov 01 00:10:34 s/it/its Nov 01 00:11:05 yeah, i know :/ Nov 01 00:11:08 Ghiottone: will you be at the telemobilityforum? Nov 01 00:12:10 Ghiottone: I haven't written this program yet, but I have bits and pieces from my reverse-engineering testing Nov 01 00:13:09 gamin, most probably Nov 01 00:15:50 abraxa_: the patched kernel is uploaded, so go ahead and test whenever you get around to it. I'll try to keep that patch updated as the kernel evolves. :) Nov 01 00:16:09 mwester: Thanks, it's certainly appreciated :) Nov 01 00:16:44 Ghiottone: duh, two weeks ahead they only have the conference program of 2006 on their website... Nov 01 00:16:54 gamin, there will be another person from our community from italy as well Nov 01 00:17:03 gamin, will you be there too? Nov 01 00:20:02 Ghiottone: I may be crossing italy from venice to torino, so I may just drop by Nov 01 00:20:41 day is 15 november iirc Nov 01 00:20:48 yep, saw that Nov 01 00:21:03 14th and 15th Nov 01 00:21:14 I'll be there only on the second day. Nov 01 00:22:31 we have been invited by a founder of gfoss.it (which stands for geospatial free and open source software) Nov 01 00:23:17 hm.. there seem to be quite some conferences in italy recently Nov 01 00:23:38 what others? Nov 01 00:23:41 too bad its so much hassle to travel there Nov 01 00:23:49 something in merano i think Nov 01 00:24:07 merano is not overly a conference town... Nov 01 00:24:58 roh what was it about? Nov 01 00:26:37 I had no troubles getting into Italy some years back. Is elsewhere in Europe even easier? Nov 01 00:27:17 * mwester gets more hassles clearing security to fly to the next state in the US than he did in Milan. Nov 01 00:27:54 eheh Nov 01 00:28:07 roh are you talking about http://sfscon.it/2007/ ? Nov 01 00:35:50 Ghiottone yap.. i think thats it.. but michael is elsewhere and i am not really a speaker and 13hours minimal traveltime sounds shocking.. thats what i need to taipeh Nov 01 00:38:05 13 hours? Nov 01 00:38:08 that's nothing :P Nov 01 00:38:13 24 hours to singapore for me! Nov 01 00:38:18 ... it fucking sucked Nov 01 00:38:21 irgh Nov 01 00:38:35 anrp: you live on the south pole? ;) Nov 01 00:38:49 i flew the wrong way Nov 01 00:38:52 it was cheaper, i guess Nov 01 00:38:55 business Nov 01 00:38:56 well.. if it was without changing the transport and they give me power and ip to the rest of the planet, no thing Nov 01 00:39:01 lol Nov 01 00:39:08 er business trip Nov 01 00:39:10 cattle class Nov 01 00:40:02 roh unfortunately merano is far from every part of italy... four hours for me Nov 01 00:40:18 Ghiottone: yep... Nov 01 00:40:44 pity because it could be a place where to meet lot of Moko developers Nov 01 00:41:03 you think so? Nov 01 00:41:13 maybe some people from munich.. Nov 01 00:41:37 Ghiottone dunno... we got asked but i don't know if we could find any time Nov 01 00:41:59 but good speakers for such an out of nowhere location Nov 01 00:42:18 yeah it is a location near to other european states Nov 01 00:43:18 well I hope there will be more occasions soon. Nov 01 00:43:44 Ghiottone well. on the Chaos Communication Congress we will have a lot of moko folks Nov 01 00:44:26 http://events.ccc.de/congress/2007/ Nov 01 00:45:30 * mwester suggests that no matter how many events openmoko attends, that at least one openmoko person remain behind, armed with a very large whip, to ensure that the **** lawyer keeps working... ;) Nov 01 00:47:19 * roh sighs Nov 01 00:47:27 if it only would be that easy *g* Nov 01 00:47:48 ehehhe Nov 01 00:48:10 yeah, if you threaten a lawyer with weapons, he might work on a lawsuit against you instead ;) Nov 01 00:48:13 ;) You could force the lawyer to spend some time on IRC, where he would get subjected to the same grief and trouble we give you, roh! :D Nov 01 00:48:24 * roh would have hired some egyptian slave animateur.. but after recognizing it does not help i went to just stay cool and keep faith. Nov 01 00:48:31 openmoko is a marathon, no sprint Nov 01 00:49:13 roh, interesting, I'll have a look if there are cheap fly to berlin from pisa :) Nov 01 00:49:33 roh if only my gf would be interested in new year's eve there ... Nov 01 00:50:00 so you live in tuscany Nov 01 00:50:05 yes Nov 01 00:50:17 live and work in pisa, but born near siena Nov 01 00:50:21 well.. i can give you some very good tips where to party in berlin ;) (who would have guessed that!!1!) Nov 01 00:50:28 hey, my company is sending me to an onsite "technology show" at Motorola... do you think anyone there would recognize the Neo if I took it along? ;) :D Nov 01 00:51:10 mwester, I have been recognize using it on the train here in italy, a couple of months ago Nov 01 00:51:45 Ghiottone: My family and I stayed for a week very near Lucca -- my wife wants to live there now. :) Nov 01 00:51:47 especially on new-years-eve there will be a party which will kill all boundaries.. Nov 01 00:52:42 roh, oh great. I went to have one in London in 2001 IIRC but was very disappointed as there was absolutely nothing in the city Nov 01 00:53:36 mwester, really? very nice! just ping me whenever you'll get back! Nov 01 00:54:13 mwester, were you on holidays? Nov 01 00:54:51 Yes, holidays. It was a great trip. Nov 01 00:55:10 (except the layover in Heathrow for 9 hours was not so much fun.) Nov 01 00:55:22 argh Nov 01 01:01:03 9 hour layover in Heathrow == Heathrow Express into downtown + visit to Science Museum. Nov 01 01:01:33 It helps to have a friend in town as a native guide. Nov 01 01:01:48 Last time I was there I visited Henry Spencer's grave. Nov 01 01:05:01 going to be. goodnight all Nov 01 01:10:38 Hmmm..... TimRiker appears at the same time Ghiottone leaves. And has anybody ever seen them in the same room, hmmmmm?? Nov 01 02:36:49 hi. Nov 01 02:37:44 I've noticed I'm root for everything on the neo... Is there an active discussion I might have missed on the wiki and mailing lists about creating a seperate (non-root) user executing through sudo or another method? Nov 01 02:52:56 StylusEater there was a discussion somewhere. it boils down to 'will be done when its time for that' Nov 01 02:53:34 so.. when it works, we can still fiddle out that details. Nov 01 02:58:13 roh: ok. figured as much but wanted clarification. thanks. Nov 01 02:58:20 roh: is there a thread on the wiki? Nov 01 02:59:10 has anybody else tried today's kernel/rootfs release from mwester ? Nov 01 02:59:49 I get a "respawning too fast" error, which usually means that some long-term process which init is trying to bring up is immediately exiting. **** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Nov 01 02:59:57 2007