**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Nov 14 02:59:57 2007 Nov 14 03:32:56 hachi: Yes. Most devs currently keep the neo on the "umbilical USB cord". The software fixes to at least ensure that the various parts of the device are powered off when it is shut down are done, but everything moves at glacial speeds here. Nov 14 03:34:28 We are all eagerly and with enormous anticipation awaiting a new snapshot; the last official one was released back when rocks were young. Nov 14 03:34:44 can I build my own? I assume I can Nov 14 03:34:50 (not to put *too* much pressure on the openmoko team working on the snapshot) :P :D Nov 14 03:35:14 hachi: yep. The wiki has instructions, search for the Master Makefile Nov 14 03:35:46 It's a huge build; starts by building the cross-dev tools and tool-chain, so be patient and make sure you have disk space. Nov 14 03:36:00 I hope 1.3TB is enough Nov 14 03:36:11 That should just about do it. Nov 14 03:36:15 (that's all I can spare at the moment) Nov 14 03:37:07 I seem to consume about 50 GB for builds, but I don't clean up much. You can probably get by with less. Nov 14 03:37:52 I need a bigger bench... too many switches and computers here to add the phone Nov 14 03:38:00 maybe the kitchen counter Nov 14 03:38:38 * mwester uses shelves for that problem. Nov 14 03:53:57 mwester: MokoMakefile, not Master Makefile Nov 14 03:54:40 google still found it Nov 14 03:55:41 sadly that page only shows problems Nov 14 03:56:40 do we have any idea what the finished gta01 battery time will be once all the PM is working etc..? Nov 14 03:57:03 anyone here in the bay area, in case I brick my phone? I'll need a jtag programmer to fix it if this is anything like other embedded platforms Nov 14 04:01:10 hachi: i think there's a few bay area folks with debug boards Nov 14 04:01:43 the 'first run' people didn't get debug boards, right? Nov 14 04:02:04 however from over here in ireland i may be confusing the bay area with just about anywhere else in california Nov 14 04:02:12 no worries :) Nov 14 04:02:30 I think the bay area right now is the only place you can get your modem firmware upgraded, so I guess there are some debug boards as well... Nov 14 04:02:47 GTA01 was available with debug board for an extra $150; i don't know how many people wanted to spend the extra Nov 14 04:03:12 I mean the people who got free ones Nov 14 04:03:17 oh, i don't know :) Nov 14 04:03:39 i would imagine being the first wave, doing the really low-level stuff, they would've needed them to get anywhere Nov 14 04:04:11 yeah, but my coworker was one of them, and I don't remember him having a GIANT BLACK CASE of doom Nov 14 04:17:22 Hi My Build 2007.2 get Failed. See here http://pastebin.ca/772927 Nov 14 04:26:11 atul: when I get to that point, I'm gonna change it to point to sqlite 3.5.2 instead Nov 14 04:26:16 but maybe that's a bad idea Nov 14 04:26:24 I was gonna do it anyways though Nov 14 04:30:45 OE monotone may be down :\ Nov 14 04:30:46 hi hachi, How do you do it can you please tell me in detail ? Nov 14 04:31:14 atul: nope, I can't, because I only started my build process about 2 minutes ago Nov 14 04:31:50 I suspect that I will hit precisely the same error soon enough though Nov 14 04:32:33 hachi: if you face same error let me know here. Nov 14 04:33:44 mtn: connecting to monotone.openembedded.org Nov 14 04:33:44 mtn: network error: failed to connect: Connection refused Nov 14 04:33:56 guess I'll build it later Nov 14 05:04:59 :( Nov 14 05:05:01 No DFU capable USB device found Nov 14 05:05:10 it worked a couple months ago when I last flashed it.. Nov 14 05:06:35 I'm seeing this message in dmesg: Nov 14 05:06:40 drivers/usb/class/cdc-acm.c: This device cannot do calls on its own. It is no modem. Nov 14 05:06:43 could that be related? Nov 14 05:06:54 also: cdc_acm 1-3:1.0: ttyACM0: USB ACM device Nov 14 05:15:14 note that I can ssh into the device just fine when I boot it up Nov 14 05:33:36 blah Nov 14 05:33:39 I got it to boot Nov 14 05:33:44 so I let it sit plugged into the wall Nov 14 05:33:47 it died again Nov 14 05:34:07 it wasn't even on for more than 10 minutes Nov 14 05:34:46 do I have a way around the fact that OE monotone is down? Nov 14 06:03:28 rwhitby: hehe, yep, that would be it. Nov 14 06:05:11 nelson: lxeth was the name of my package - I think it was simply an (attributed) recompile of the crynwyr driver for the en2216 card. Nov 14 06:05:42 moin Nov 14 06:05:43 probably. Nov 14 06:05:54 CF devices end up being identical once you get them on the bus. Nov 14 06:08:07 nelson: anyway, a belated thanks for your work. It was a pleasure to build upon it. Nov 14 06:14:22 you're welcome. Nov 14 06:19:44 OE monotone anyone? also anyone know about that sqlite version problem that was mentioned earlier by someone else? Nov 14 06:27:20 hachi: Yes, OE mtn seems to be down. Wait a bit until the devs start waking up here in Europe :) Nov 14 06:28:41 any input on the 'battery dies when plugged into charger' issue? Nov 14 06:32:53 What charger is it? Nov 14 06:33:11 If it's a "dumb" charger I'm afraid it's not working correctly Nov 14 06:33:26 Or if it's a laptop it might be problems too Nov 14 06:33:44 TC-FU-USB... I was handed the phone and assumed it was a charger that came with it Nov 14 06:34:20 TC-FU? Nov 14 06:34:31 it's the same exact issue that my coworker had with his phase 0 when he got it back in what.. .march? Nov 14 06:34:36 I've only charged mine from my desktop Nov 14 06:34:41 Ah, ok Nov 14 06:35:09 he hasn't really touched his phase 0 since then that I'm aware of Nov 14 06:35:46 Is it a gta01v3 or v4? Nov 14 06:36:01 Should say on the back Nov 14 06:36:11 the one I have is a v4 Nov 14 06:36:17 Hmm... Nov 14 06:36:21 the one he had was one of the original 36 Nov 14 06:36:24 so I assume v3 Nov 14 06:36:27 has Nov 14 06:36:55 I'm not sure what is different. Nov 14 06:37:10 But the people who do know should start waking up now :) Nov 14 06:37:19 still, I had it charged earlier, and then powered it on, and within 20 minutes it was dead again Nov 14 06:37:39 Was it charging at all? Nov 14 06:37:47 dunno how to tell Nov 14 06:37:58 there's no positive assertion that I could see telling me Nov 14 06:40:50 hachi: If you can get it powered on, and ssh in, cat /sys/devices/platform/s3c2410-i2c/i2c-adapter/i2c-0/0-0008/chgmode would tell you what kind of charging it's doing Nov 14 06:41:16 hachi: Also, if you hold in AUX when power on you should be able to set Fast Charge Nov 14 06:41:20 * CM has to go to work Nov 14 06:41:28 thanks Nov 14 06:41:54 original 36 were Bv3 Nov 14 07:06:47 what's the deal with such a heavy waveguide for the speakers Nov 14 07:06:57 was fidelity that much of a concern in the original design? Nov 14 07:07:20 it does sound pretty nifty when it boots Nov 14 07:12:00 it's booting! Nov 14 07:16:23 .quit Nov 14 07:16:27 oops Nov 14 07:19:19 ahh, and I now see how it looks when charging Nov 14 07:31:09 hachi: Ah, nice :) Nov 14 07:59:07 I'm getting errors about files owned by package gtk+ and gtk+fastscaling wants to install them Nov 14 07:59:19 nothing on the wiki about this Nov 14 07:59:35 at least, search for 'fastscaling' and 'gtk' gives me nothing Nov 14 08:02:00 Never herd about that. When did you get that? Nov 14 08:03:21 ipkg upgrade Nov 14 08:03:37 gonna attempt it again, oooh, new boot sound Nov 14 08:03:47 gave it a reboot, also put my sim card in Nov 14 08:03:52 Maybe they've moved some packages around recently then. Prod XorA|gone about in when he's back Nov 14 08:04:20 Hmm.. I haven't heard any boot sound in a long time.. Need to get a working u-boot soon Nov 14 08:05:14 hmmm failed to call... or no sound Nov 14 08:05:23 there were notes about this already Nov 14 08:06:36 one missed call? Nov 14 08:29:59 hachi: ipkg remove gtk+ --force-depends Nov 14 08:30:03 ipkg install gtk+-fastscaling Nov 14 08:30:29 ok Nov 14 08:30:44 I forced the install of everything, I'll do this now Nov 14 08:34:33 hachi: monotone.oe is back up Nov 14 08:34:57 hurray, off my build goes Nov 14 08:36:37 ok, i have a question Nov 14 08:36:50 i'm using the /etc/network/interfaces file on my shiny new ubuntu to configure usb0 Nov 14 08:36:59 however, it just doesn't work Nov 14 08:37:08 i manually need to ifdown usb0; ifup usb0 Nov 14 08:37:21 any idea why that doesn't work automatically once the Neo gets attached? Nov 14 08:37:39 do you have usb0 set to hotplug? Nov 14 08:37:53 allow-hotplug usb0 Nov 14 08:37:53 iface usb0 inet static Nov 14 08:37:53 address 192.168.0.200 Nov 14 08:37:53 netmask 255.255.255.0 Nov 14 08:37:53 network 192.168.0.0 Nov 14 08:37:59 hmm Nov 14 08:38:17 looks about right, doesn#t it? Nov 14 08:38:20 * CM only knows gentoo Nov 14 08:38:28 It looks right Nov 14 08:38:46 mickeyl, do you use the networkmanager applet? Nov 14 08:39:02 josch: not sure, to be honest :) Nov 14 08:39:04 mickeyl: Did you see the bug roh posted about in the wiki? Nov 14 08:39:06 using gnome for now Nov 14 08:39:26 About patching udev rules Nov 14 08:39:48 well, I configured nothing in /etc/network/interfaces and let nm-applet do all the stuff and it just works tm Nov 14 08:40:31 mickeyl, this is the network manager in gnome: http://www.gnome.org/projects/NetworkManager/images/wireless-at-tealuxe.png Nov 14 08:41:24 aah Nov 14 08:41:29 yes, i think i'm using this thing Nov 14 08:41:51 is this interfering with the "standard" debian way of doing things? Nov 14 08:41:54 well, I did put nothing in /etc/network/interfaces and let it do alle the stuff Nov 14 08:42:05 well - a little Nov 14 08:43:14 on my system it autodetects my pugged in neo and even autoconnects to it if I'm not registered in any other network Nov 14 08:43:50 trying to get my phone to dial out Nov 14 08:43:54 not having good luck yet Nov 14 08:44:04 hachi try libgsmd-tool Nov 14 08:46:14 okay Nov 14 08:46:19 searching for 'gsm' on the wiki fails Nov 14 08:46:51 yet 'libgsmd-tool' works Nov 14 08:46:57 stupid search system Nov 14 08:50:10 ya, the wiki search sucks Nov 14 08:50:29 hachi: Use http://aiurlano.netsons.org/OpenMoko/ instead Nov 14 08:51:24 Or http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=018430699993342716089%3Aszsaurhronw if you want the real google coop page ;) Nov 14 08:51:29 calls aren't reaching the far end... bleh Nov 14 08:51:39 phone claims to be calling Nov 14 08:51:49 josch: hmm, usb0 doesn't even show up in the network manager applet Nov 14 08:52:25 mickeyl, have you still configured usb0 manually? Nov 14 08:52:36 oop, and now it's saying NO CARRIER Nov 14 08:52:38 networkmanager only manages the unconfigured interfaces Nov 14 08:56:15 mickeyl: there is a bug in udev in ubuntu Nov 14 08:56:57 mickeyl: in /etc/udev/rules.d/85-ifupdown.rules Nov 14 08:56:57 aah Nov 14 08:57:03 make Nov 14 08:57:08 LABEL="net_end" Nov 14 08:57:09 ACTION=="remove", RUN+="/sbin/start-stop-daemon --start --background --pidfile /var/run/network/bogus --startas /sbin/ifdown -- --allow auto $env{INTERFACE}" Nov 14 08:57:13 it this way around Nov 14 08:57:24 then restart and it will work Nov 14 08:57:28 (it did for me) Nov 14 08:58:34 k, thanks. giving that a try Nov 14 09:01:56 sweet, calls work now Nov 14 09:02:07 but... now the images in the dialer are 'broken' Nov 14 09:02:30 they show the little paper with an 'x' in them, so I have to guess at the buttons Nov 14 09:04:15 where do I get i.e. this file: openmoko/trunk/src/target/gsm/src/util/libgsmd-tool.c on the internets? Nov 14 09:13:54 svnweb.openmoko.org Nov 14 09:14:00 mickeyl, thx Nov 14 09:14:57 The listview that is scrolled with fingers is that a standard gtktreeview with added scrolling capabilities or a custom widget? Nov 14 09:15:00 good morning Nov 14 09:17:09 anders_, it's a custom wifget Nov 14 09:17:49 MokoFingerScroll, you can embed any widget in that to make it finger-scrolling aware Nov 14 09:18:25 Ok, thanks. Nov 14 09:19:53 * ScaredyCat embeds a checkbox widget in it... Nov 14 09:20:05 morning all Nov 14 09:20:30 Morning you lazy ass.. ;) Nov 14 09:20:45 :) Nov 14 09:24:15 Is it preferred that we code in C for programs for OM, or is python gonna be okay for gui stuff too? Nov 14 09:24:38 I know _very_ little C, and python is way easier and like it more, i'm just thinking about performance Nov 14 09:25:59 flexd: I'd start in python if I was you :) Nov 14 09:26:13 CM: good, because that's what i've done :< Nov 14 09:26:21 One tiny thing annoying me though Nov 14 09:26:31 the gui blocks :( Nov 14 09:26:31 * zash needs to learn more languages Nov 14 09:26:37 flexd: But ask mickeyl or so for a definitive answer Nov 14 09:26:47 I was thinking of trying to make a gtk debug console for my python bot Nov 14 09:26:50 just for trying out gtk Nov 14 09:26:57 zash: Me too, or at least get better at many Nov 14 09:27:02 but the damn window blocks the rest of my code :'( Nov 14 09:27:04 but bbl meeting Nov 14 09:27:17 flexd, how does the window block? Nov 14 09:27:28 when i run gtk.main() Nov 14 09:27:42 i *suppose* i could run gtk.main() in a thread Nov 14 09:27:53 but dunno how that would affect everything :< Nov 14 09:27:55 ah now I know what you mean Nov 14 09:28:09 well python is perfect for gui ^^ Nov 14 09:28:17 the bot is using twisted atm, but none of that gets executed before the window closes >_> Nov 14 09:28:19 mickeyl is of the same opinion I suppose Nov 14 09:28:23 i like it Nov 14 09:28:31 but bbl gotta go people asking form e :/ Nov 14 09:28:45 python seems to be the one people go for here, evn though it's slower than a slow thing, that lives in slow town Nov 14 09:29:10 ScaredyCat, not really - only startup takes 2 secs on my neo Nov 14 09:29:13 debug shells in python are simple Nov 14 09:29:26 i did on w/ Qt a couple of years ago Nov 14 09:29:42 basically you just need to do a gfx terminal shell Nov 14 09:29:51 then you have the command prompt from within the main loop Nov 14 09:30:24 openmoko should support .net - then it could get all the whiners from that other not-to-be-named platform that only supports java :-) Nov 14 09:31:10 mickeyl: I tell you what, the openmoko community list is like a precise technical discussion compared to that other mob's "developer" list. Nov 14 09:31:15 isnt there ppl working on porting mono already? Nov 14 09:31:38 rwhitby: heh. you have a point, yeah Nov 14 09:32:04 * mickeyl presents the shiny new fullscreen power meun Nov 14 09:32:06 http://scap.linuxtogo.org/files/eb838b77fab8df226b5c5cd7d48ed171.png Nov 14 09:32:15 text so big your grandma can read it Nov 14 09:32:19 hey Nov 14 09:32:24 i heard that homyx debricked his board. Nov 14 09:32:25 ScaredyCat, to slowness: yesterday I hacked together this GUI http://rabenfrost.net/openmoko/pyPhone_Dialer.png and switching between tabs is not instant but it's also not instant in any other openmoko app and I fell NO differnece in speed once the app is loaded Nov 14 09:32:38 ScaredyCat: you know what homyx ended up doing? Nov 14 09:32:49 yes torpor Nov 14 09:32:51 i guess i'll check my logs too, but i'm desperate to get my neo debricked. Nov 14 09:32:52 it seems that there are just as many people who can't install a JRE, eclipse and a plugin as there are people who had trouble with getting OE working ... Nov 14 09:33:02 rwhitby:! Nov 14 09:33:13 rwhitby: got any hints for a debricker session? Nov 14 09:33:14 mickeyl, yeah nice! Nov 14 09:33:22 plug it in, turn on the neo, keep doing reset connect reset connect with open ocd until it works Nov 14 09:33:34 i've been trying for 3 days to get my neo debricked. i burned a bad uboot. Nov 14 09:33:35 you wont get much indication that hte neo is on, at all Nov 14 09:33:50 ScaredyCat: so you just keep doing reset/connect/reset/connect on the board, or the ribbon cable? Nov 14 09:33:57 torpor: where are you at? got a pastebin of openocd output? Nov 14 09:34:03 board, not cable Nov 14 09:34:04 coz my ribbon cable is *FRAGILE* .. damn FIC for using such crap connectors! Nov 14 09:34:13 torpor: reset switch on board, and run openocd Nov 14 09:34:17 rwhitby: "JTAG results 0x00 check cable" Nov 14 09:34:19 ahh there.. Nov 14 09:34:23 torpor: nothing with cable Nov 14 09:34:24 keep doing it Nov 14 09:34:30 until it connects Nov 14 09:34:37 apparently Nov 14 09:34:38 okay we did that a lot last night too but i guess i gotta do it longer Nov 14 09:34:52 * XorA normally takes about 5 attempts to get it right Nov 14 09:34:52 i don't have my rig in front of me right now - just got a mail that it was fixed with homyx, so i guess i'm gonna try again today Nov 14 09:34:55 really lame though. Nov 14 09:35:01 okay guys thanks for the headsup .. Nov 14 09:35:04 it's like having sex with a sheep, eventually you find the right method ;) Nov 14 09:35:10 torpor: are you sure the battery is charged, and did you push the power button to power up the CPU before trying to connect via jtag? Nov 14 09:35:24 rwhitby: yes. Nov 14 09:35:41 actually not sure about the batteries .. we need a working neo to charge them. Nov 14 09:36:00 i think they don't get charged in the crashed neos we have now.. Nov 14 09:36:17 but okay i will try again this evening .. let you know. gotta go now. Nov 14 09:36:20 hope we can get it fixed. Nov 14 09:36:22 ok Nov 14 09:36:32 torpor in emergency you can use a charged nokia battery Nov 14 09:36:37 rwhitby: has been hard, we haven't had any jtag experts around. Nov 14 09:36:47 okay, i'm out. Nov 14 09:36:48 later! Nov 14 09:37:23 josch: yes, but still slow - try it without the images on top Nov 14 09:37:42 ScaredyCat, what images? Nov 14 09:37:59 the gtk eyecandy Nov 14 09:38:13 yu mean the icons on the bottom Nov 14 09:38:57 iirc move your gtkrc out of the way and reboot Nov 14 09:39:18 mickeyl: much more finger friendly Nov 14 09:39:19 ScaredyCat, but then this is a gtk issue and not python Nov 14 09:39:49 yes, but that'll allow you to see the speed difference between a c app and a python app clearly Nov 14 09:40:30 okay, will try Nov 14 09:41:17 ScaredyCat, /usr/share/themes/openmoko-standard-2/gtk-2.0/gtkrc ? Nov 14 09:41:51 yeah, think that's it... just mv it to a different name Nov 14 09:42:00 rebooting Nov 14 09:42:25 you probbly could have just restarted the wm, but hey :P Nov 14 09:45:38 ScaredyCat, well the icons are still there but the rest of the theme is not Nov 14 09:45:56 ScaredyCat, and now there really is NO speed difference (except on startup) Nov 14 09:47:45 ScaredyCat, I can send you my source so you can make sure that using python has no impact on the interface speed Nov 14 09:48:34 k, seems slow to me, maybe you just write better python :) Nov 14 09:49:04 when I single tap on power fast, the interface switches to 'open moko please wait' Nov 14 09:49:15 and then if I hit power or aux, x11 crashes :) Nov 14 09:49:34 ScaredyCat, there is no python behind it - the interface is using glade Nov 14 09:49:46 :o Nov 14 09:49:56 souce for it ? Nov 14 09:50:14 ScaredyCat, the glade file: http://rabenfrost.net/openmoko/glade.glade Nov 14 09:50:38 ScaredyCat, the python code: http://rabenfrost.net/openmoko/pyPhone.py Nov 14 09:51:25 ty, will have a play :) Nov 14 09:51:30 ^^ Nov 14 09:51:55 beware: startup is like 4secs Nov 14 09:52:11 ouch Nov 14 09:52:28 3secs Nov 14 09:52:57 wow, without gtkrc openmoko is finally usable! Nov 14 09:53:31 Oh, there was actually some activity in this channel :) Nov 14 09:53:32 How nice Nov 14 09:55:50 what's what? Nov 14 09:59:28 josch: pygsmd ? Nov 14 10:00:14 ScaredyCat, ah... just remove the lines Nov 14 10:00:27 pygsmd is the python binding for gsmd Nov 14 10:01:55 are there any other deps ? Nov 14 10:03:36 ScaredyCat, pygtk, gtk, gtk.glade Nov 14 10:09:36 what editor do I use on my phone? Nov 14 10:09:50 oh, vi is there Nov 14 10:09:51 nevermind Nov 14 10:16:30 * ScaredyCat must be missing something obvious... Nov 14 10:16:46 * ScaredyCat stares at python errors Nov 14 10:18:21 ScaredyCat, paste sie mal hier Nov 14 10:18:35 ScaredyCat, sry Nov 14 10:18:41 ScaredyCat, past them here Nov 14 10:19:33 anything to make my moko phone boot faster? Nov 14 10:19:34 http://pastebin.ca/773190 Nov 14 10:20:37 ScaredyCat, sry that was an outdated glade file Nov 14 10:21:17 ! Nov 14 10:22:27 ScaredyCat, http://rabenfrost.net/openmoko/glade.glade Nov 14 10:23:48 ok, now it works :) Nov 14 10:23:54 excellent Nov 14 10:25:18 cool, sms icons :) Nov 14 10:27:36 fgau, well... not rly Nov 14 10:27:50 fgau, the icons will be displayed if they are part of the openmoko theme Nov 14 10:29:02 I'm having build problems, qith sqlite 3.4.1 Nov 14 10:29:14 Task failed: Fetch failed: http://www.sqlite.org/sqlite-3.4.1.tar.gz Nov 14 10:29:32 the file doesn't exist on that server any more :( Nov 14 10:29:39 yeah 404 Nov 14 10:29:56 josch: that .glade file? what is that? Nov 14 10:29:58 any workaround? Nov 14 10:30:32 flexd, ScaredyCat wanted a proof that a python gtk interface is in no means slower than c gtk Nov 14 10:31:35 I estimate 5 secs to start Nov 14 10:31:42 python gtk is just nice :< Nov 14 10:32:10 puppe try building the newer version Nov 14 10:33:02 ScaredyCat, as I said - starting is painfull but the interface is as fast as in c Nov 14 10:33:51 i found a python glade code generator... but you can't actually dl it :? Nov 14 10:33:52 :/ Nov 14 10:34:01 puppe_: Get it from somewhere else, like http://cs.emich.edu/mbsd/mports/distfiles/sqlite-3.4.1.tar.gz Nov 14 10:34:41 josch: how would this program actually look on the phone? Nov 14 10:34:55 flexd, http://rabenfrost.net/openmoko/pyPhone_Dialer.png Nov 14 10:35:09 what's the deal with the boot menu for 'set console to usb' ? Nov 14 10:35:18 does it actually work? Nov 14 10:35:26 josch: that does look awsome Nov 14 10:35:35 does gtk stuff automatically get that style when you put in on the phone? Nov 14 10:35:46 If not i'm worried my stuff will look like complete crap Nov 14 10:35:47 flexd, it's only gtk that does the work - I just clicked it together in glade Nov 14 10:36:01 no, the theming is done automatically Nov 14 10:36:06 great. Nov 14 10:36:31 ScaredyCat, is using generated code faster than glade? Nov 14 10:36:59 josch: then atleast i dont have to worry with my stuff looking like complete shit. Nov 14 10:37:00 dunno : can't get the generator.. Nov 14 10:37:03 CM: Thanks for the URL, i figured out how to patch the bb-file for sqlite 3.4.1 to get past the 404 error Nov 14 10:37:09 I think if I let python let generating the interface it will be slower than using glade with the gtk.glade C library Nov 14 10:37:16 * ScaredyCat needs to have a play about with it Nov 14 10:38:35 josch: is it possible to get this program into qemu? Nov 14 10:38:52 flexd, can not think of any problems Nov 14 10:39:08 flexd, just install python on your qemu image Nov 14 10:43:51 http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30200-1292608,00.html Nov 14 10:44:54 OT but funny ^^ Nov 14 10:45:54 ScaredyCat, about the startup issue... mickeyl suggested using something like a preloader to overcome this in the future Nov 14 10:46:28 make sense I suppose... Nov 14 10:49:38 does v4 have a hardware bug preventing poweroff? (screen flicker?) Nov 14 10:52:53 mmmm.... my neo just rebooted Nov 14 11:00:37 no hachi Nov 14 11:01:01 is it plugged into usb without a battery? Nov 14 11:01:13 that would be bad Nov 14 11:02:18 Sup3rkiddo!!! Come online!!!!!!!!!! Nov 14 11:14:02 hmmmmmmm Nov 14 11:14:19 I think im gonna try putting OM on my ipaq 3360 today :< Nov 14 11:20:20 my neo keeps rebooting :/ Nov 14 11:22:04 ScaredyCat: congratulations., Nov 14 11:22:24 I can tell you exactly how you can convert it to "keeps not booting". Nov 14 11:22:25 interested? ;D Nov 14 11:23:12 no, I'm interested in why it just reboots every so often... Nov 14 11:23:19 have you been coding again ? Nov 14 11:24:14 ScaredyCat: nah, I've been playing with the bootloader... Nov 14 11:24:38 that's not a good thing... .just ask torpor Nov 14 11:31:37 hmm Nov 14 11:31:48 does anyone remember how you use the desktop cube thing in compiz? ;o Nov 14 11:32:38 ctrl+alt+? Nov 14 11:33:06 captainwoot: ctrl+alt+arrows make me change workspace Nov 14 11:33:09 mouse button does nothing Nov 14 11:33:37 it should rotate the cube Nov 14 11:37:02 doesnt Nov 14 11:37:21 have you activated the cube plugin in the configuration? Nov 14 11:38:22 dunno Nov 14 11:39:13 start the configuration program with `ccsm` from a terminal window Nov 14 11:39:21 look for cube plugin Nov 14 11:47:06 ya, ctrl+alt+arrows Nov 14 11:47:23 or ctrl + alt + lmb + move mouse Nov 14 11:47:23 had to enable it :< Nov 14 11:47:34 and now im disabling Nov 14 11:47:37 cause it sucked Nov 14 11:47:54 the super e is better imho Nov 14 11:48:23 ye Nov 14 11:50:20 indeed Nov 14 12:38:25 flexd, ping Nov 14 12:49:59 moin Nov 14 12:50:24 so how long will it take for someone to port Adroid to Neo1973, any bets yet? Nov 14 12:50:54 * hhf423 fattend his Neo battery again and has to trickle charge Nov 14 12:51:09 s/fattend/flattend Nov 14 12:51:33 hhf423: it is not that easy to port it when you don't get the source code.... Nov 14 12:52:00 the main part of android, ie. the java vm and framework/libs are not opensource (yet) Nov 14 12:54:10 ah, so the stuff goes onto the phones by the vendor signing NDA's or by Google porting it? Nov 14 12:58:52 the palm Z22 display covers/protectors/foils (don't know how they are called in english) are nearly fitting for the neo1973 - they are only 2mm too high but this can be cut off easily Nov 14 13:00:53 josch: pong Nov 14 13:01:41 josch, ping Nov 14 13:01:47 flexd, I've shown you my python dialer app - I'm also looking for a method to handle my program code separately - did you find a solution? Nov 14 13:02:00 no, i havent tried much Nov 14 13:02:02 at work :( Nov 14 13:03:04 but will try more later Nov 14 13:03:15 one solution might be to make a background process though Nov 14 13:03:39 that runs in the bg, then the gui just fetches info from it Nov 14 13:03:56 with threads Nov 14 13:04:05 or two programs Nov 14 13:04:12 a daemon running in the bg all the time Nov 14 13:04:25 taking commands from the gui by some sort of something (no idea), maybe a socket or something Nov 14 13:06:10 im sure someone good at programming stuff in om, like (i dont know any names :/) Nov 14 13:06:19 mickeyl perhaps? Nov 14 13:06:28 could answer it better Nov 14 13:06:48 but i know programs like evolution do that, have a bg process and the gui is just a frontend Nov 14 13:08:39 well for now I have to focus on searching for a tutorial that creates python callbacks in sup3kiddo's pygsmd gms binding Nov 14 13:08:40 josch: which code do you want to split into what? Nov 14 13:08:59 mickeyl, I don't want to split any code Nov 14 13:09:11 his pyPhone and the actual program i think, so gui and stuff can run separately without freezing? Nov 14 13:09:40 mickeyl: uhm let me use my bot as a example; Nov 14 13:09:41 I wanted to help sup3rkiddo on programming his pygsmd binding and he has no idea how to do the event handling stuff Nov 14 13:09:52 nevermind me ^ Nov 14 13:10:20 who sends events to whom? Nov 14 13:10:43 pygsmd sends events to the binding which is supposed to send them to the program? Nov 14 13:11:27 for now my app uses functions from pygsmd to do things like looking up the operator etc - this works fine Nov 14 13:11:38 ah wait, now i see Nov 14 13:11:42 you have a pygmsd Nov 14 13:11:42 but I have to be able to know when some event occurs Nov 14 13:11:49 as replacement for gsmd? Nov 14 13:11:52 no Nov 14 13:12:03 it needs gsmd Nov 14 13:12:13 is it a seperate process? Nov 14 13:12:17 it's more a replacement for libgsmd-tools Nov 14 13:12:31 no, it's included in the python app that uses it Nov 14 13:12:39 a python binding to gsmd would be the correct term? Nov 14 13:12:43 jepp Nov 14 13:12:48 aha Nov 14 13:12:54 in that case i suggest using python threads Nov 14 13:13:06 okay Nov 14 13:13:15 but, how can you e.g call the gui in a thread and then be able to send signals to it? Nov 14 13:13:16 and a either threading.event or threading.queue to signal events from one thread to another Nov 14 13:13:18 and a while true loop that checks for an event Nov 14 13:13:27 okay Nov 14 13:13:47 you can inject file descriptors to watch for into the gtk main loop Nov 14 13:13:58 file descriptors? Nov 14 13:14:27 unix file descriptors Nov 14 13:14:34 files Nov 14 13:14:35 pipes Nov 14 13:14:37 sockets Nov 14 13:14:49 will first learn how to do threading Nov 14 13:15:19 PalmOS emulation on maemo :) Nov 14 13:18:38 does anybody know how to remove the bubbles from under my display foil? Nov 14 13:19:10 Take away the protective plastig? Nov 14 13:19:13 Plastic Nov 14 13:19:48 is such a foil called "protective plastic"? Nov 14 13:20:09 josch: if it protects your screen.. Nov 14 13:20:38 edistar, I'm no native english speaker - I do not know how this foil is called Nov 14 13:20:53 * CM isn't either Nov 14 13:21:06 * josch never used such a thing... Nov 14 13:21:08 josch: I think you can call it anything you want, as long as people understand :) Nov 14 13:21:36 so... does anyone know a simple trick how to remove all the nasty bubbles? Nov 14 13:22:11 josch: you can take it off and put it on again? Nov 14 13:23:17 edistar, if this would lead to success I wouldn't ask ^^ Nov 14 13:23:41 josch: heh ;) put it on again with a ruler, sliding it on while you put on the foil.. that's what I did with my camera Nov 14 13:24:13 maybe my foil is just not quality stuff ^^ Nov 14 13:24:44 hehe Nov 14 13:51:52 helo world Nov 14 13:52:03 :) Nov 14 13:55:34 helo? Nov 14 13:55:39 that is old protocol Nov 14 13:55:43 EHLO is the new goodness D: Nov 14 13:55:47 better than halo Nov 14 13:59:18 SYN Nov 14 13:59:24 ACK Nov 14 14:00:08 451 4.7.1 Service unavailable - try again later Nov 14 14:14:22 Morning all! Nov 14 14:15:04 time zones are funy :) Nov 14 14:15:09 Does anyone know if Android would be viable on an OpenMoko? Nov 14 14:15:13 i know right Nov 14 14:16:31 The vm would presumably be able to be ported (effort unknown) if it were free. More android stuff, please go to #android Nov 14 14:17:59 shouldn't that stuff run on any linux, which is in fact what the're doing, only that they try to hide it from the GUI? Nov 14 14:18:53 gort! Nov 14 14:19:00 Yeah, im not really into the Android "g-phone", I have been enammered with OpenMoko since the start, I just had that thought pop in my head and decided to question of you folks. Nov 14 14:19:23 you mean Android on Neo1973? yes Nov 14 14:19:38 because OpenMoko is an OS, like Android Nov 14 14:19:41 I think once you start digging, android isn't so 'pretty' Nov 14 14:19:46 I just need their kernel (slightly modified) to be able to run maybe, OpenMoko Nov 14 14:20:01 kernel is available Nov 14 14:20:16 it's in their git repo Nov 14 14:20:21 well yes, I've seen it in git Nov 14 14:20:29 the real question is, will android-based phones run openmoko? Nov 14 14:20:31 nevertheless, it's not yet Kaiser-ready Nov 14 14:20:41 android using java ... hyyy it while by slow Nov 14 14:20:54 zash: there's no reason they wouldn't Nov 14 14:21:04 there is no android-"based" phone, and will never be Nov 14 14:21:20 android is just on top of linux Nov 14 14:21:34 zoolooc: as in phone-that-ships-with-android Nov 14 14:21:48 alright Nov 14 14:23:23 cool, thank you all for discussing this! Nov 14 14:29:22 Just got to realise OpenEzx today, and through several readings, it looks real cool Nov 14 14:29:40 and i want to get involve in it Nov 14 14:30:02 but it seems to be difficult to find information on how to put the OS into the phone Nov 14 14:35:57 Android kernel is also in Poky Nov 14 14:36:21 we already started Poky with android kernel - inside of android emulator Nov 14 14:36:28 i get to know openmoko through android :) Nov 14 14:36:48 mrking: and then openexz due to openmoko? Nov 14 14:37:30 bingo ! Nov 14 14:37:31 hahaha Nov 14 14:37:49 am doing lotsa reading Nov 14 14:53:37 does anybody know which timezone sup3rkiddo lives in? Nov 14 14:53:48 Might be india Nov 14 14:54:48 But I'm just guessing ;) Nov 14 14:54:57 I thought so Nov 14 14:56:28 by Nov 14 14:57:09 * ScaredyCat sighs ... Nov 14 14:57:16 you try to help people ... Nov 14 15:06:35 I have a 8gb microSD card will it work on the GTA02? Nov 14 15:07:11 probably Nov 14 15:07:31 Since the GTA02 doesn't yet exist, the question is somewhat acedemic. But we expect that the 8GB cards should work, since the 6GB cards appear to work on the GTA01 Nov 14 15:08:00 have anyone tried a 8gb card on GTA01 then? :P Nov 14 15:08:38 But if it doesn't work can I format it to 6gb? Nov 14 15:08:39 mwester is there any difference in the SD protocol from 4 GB upward? Nov 14 15:09:00 only if it's SDhc I think Nov 14 15:09:04 I think they are the same protocol. Nov 14 15:09:26 sd and sdhc? Nov 14 15:09:29 wel, then it should be okay, i guess, right? Nov 14 15:09:49 nice Nov 14 15:09:54 <_diego_> up to 2GB they are SD, above sdhc Nov 14 15:09:59 Probably. No guarantee that there aren't protocol or timing issues that are currently unknown. Nov 14 15:10:11 no I don't think they are _diego_ Nov 14 15:10:29 <_diego_> so i suppose that if 6gb works, u have the same chance with 8gb Nov 14 15:10:37 Same protocol. Only difference is SDHC = fat32 and block instead of byte adressing mode, afaik. Nov 14 15:10:41 There shouldn't be any problems, but we enter uncharted territory for many devices (not just the neo) with these very large SD cards. Nov 14 15:11:17 ok Nov 14 15:11:53 so If i reformat a sd card to fat32 and blocks it will be sdhc? :P Nov 14 15:11:59 * mwester intends to wait for a few months, and then purchase only from a name-brand vendor for his 8GB card... Nov 14 15:12:11 PP|Spydon: No. Nov 14 15:12:28 ok... :P Nov 14 15:12:32 You can't "reformat to block mode" Nov 14 15:12:40 I see Nov 14 15:12:42 PP|Spydon: The protocol between the host and the card changes to block-addressing, it has nothing to do with the file-system on the card. Nov 14 15:12:57 i see Nov 14 15:13:19 which filesystem should I have on my card then do you think? :P Nov 14 15:13:23 Yeah. "block" vs "byte" mode is a change in the protocol between the card and the controller on how it requests chunks of data. Nov 14 15:13:36 because it doesn't have any filesystem yet... Nov 14 15:14:06 <_diego_> ext3 i suppose Nov 14 15:14:12 Spydon: Well. Fat16 if you want the card to be read/writable in pretty much any device. Nov 14 15:14:29 PP|Spydon: Use the same reasoning you would apply to a hard drive with similar capacity. Frankly, I use ext3 for any capacity because the SD card is not really swappable on the Neo due to it's physical placement. Nov 14 15:14:29 <_diego_> if u want to use with neo only Nov 14 15:15:20 yes I only want it on the neo :) Nov 14 15:16:17 Then pick whatever fs that the kernel in the neo supports. :) Nov 14 15:16:38 wow there are 16 GB SD cards in stores, by now - but I only see microSD at 2 GB Nov 14 15:16:56 there are definitely 6GB microsdhc available Nov 14 15:17:00 nice Nov 14 15:17:05 and you can preorder 8GB Nov 14 15:17:15 :-) Nov 14 15:18:38 4GB microsd has been avail for a while. Nov 14 15:19:16 yeah, the're really cool Nov 14 15:20:03 sandisk ships them together with adapter and reader,'cause older readers can't do with them Nov 14 15:20:07 I have a 8gb sd card already, buz Nov 14 15:20:14 With the way they are going, it won't take long before they hit the 32GB sdhc limit. Nov 14 15:20:21 i understand theres limited volume available Nov 14 15:20:52 PP|Spydon: does it work with neo? Nov 14 15:21:35 I don't have a neo :P Nov 14 15:22:25 seems kinda disingenious to have a 32GB limit in a new standard Nov 14 15:22:45 i'm wondering why nobody does an UMS based card technology Nov 14 15:22:57 I *think* it is a fat32/windows issue, not a limit on the block addressing mode. Nov 14 15:23:07 could be Nov 14 15:23:19 i've had weird results with fat32>32gb for sure Nov 14 15:23:34 (weirder than usual that is) Nov 14 15:23:40 buz: you mean fat32 can't have partitions bigger than 32gb? Nov 14 15:23:52 edistar: technically i believe it can do 128GB Nov 14 15:23:57 but at 32GB something weird happens Nov 14 15:24:03 i have a 60GB fat partition Nov 14 15:24:04 You can technically have 32gb+ fat32, but win won't format bigger, and some software has issues. Nov 14 15:24:05 buz: ok, nice to know Nov 14 15:24:06 or maybe its just a windows limitation Nov 14 15:24:19 <_diego_> you can have more 128Gb fat partition, but windows refuse to mount them ^^ Nov 14 15:24:26 it is not a technical limitation, it is just a policy of the windows format software Nov 14 15:24:36 not too stupid really Nov 14 15:24:37 ah, ok Nov 14 15:24:45 they should have put the limit at 8GB really ;9 Nov 14 15:24:53 have you buy "NT thchnology" Nov 14 15:24:59 _diego_: are you sure windows refuses to mount or windows refuses to format? Nov 14 15:25:06 not that i really care, my neo sd is gonna be ext2 anyhow Nov 14 15:25:18 refused to format, mount is ok Nov 14 15:25:26 mine will be ext2 too... I heard that journaling on a card is not that good Nov 14 15:25:28 now that i think of it Nov 14 15:25:31 Question is.. which fs to go to past 32GB. Must be universally supported since the cards will be used in heaps and loads of different devices. Nov 14 15:25:43 <_diego_> kW: i'm quite sure it refuese to mount, i've tried it with win2000 Nov 14 15:25:44 none really Nov 14 15:25:58 i think i have mounted a 200GB fat32 usb drive just fine Nov 14 15:25:58 _diego_: okay Nov 14 15:25:58 ext3 might actually have a golden opportunity there. Nov 14 15:26:15 i suggest we stick zfs into everything :P Nov 14 15:26:35 .tar.gz directly on the device... ;-) Nov 14 15:26:35 or perhaps something bsd licensed, to make implementation cheap and fast. Nov 14 15:26:43 Lynet: NTFS for win, apple fs(can't remember the name), ext* and xfs maybe, others won't be readable with most OS's Nov 14 15:26:44 UFS2 aint too bad Nov 14 15:27:06 hfs sucks nearly as badly as FAT Nov 14 15:27:09 ffs is better :P Nov 14 15:27:16 <_diego_> fatfs is quite easy to support, so embedded device love fat Nov 14 15:27:40 isn't there a special fs for usb drives and storage cards? Nov 14 15:27:41 for most embedded device fat is good enough Nov 14 15:27:50 not that i know of Nov 14 15:27:54 edistar: "fat" Nov 14 15:28:00 * * OM Bug 1008 has been created by mickey(AT)vanille-media.de Nov 14 15:28:01 * * Improve power consumption during suspend Nov 14 15:28:02 * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1008 Nov 14 15:28:06 fat is named wrongly, should be named "thin" Nov 14 15:28:26 Nah. Faulty Allocation Table is the appropriate name. Nov 14 15:28:39 Lynet: I mean specially designed for usb/storage flash Nov 14 15:28:41 thats true Nov 14 15:28:53 edistar: there's JFFS2 and logfs but neither of them is very widely used Nov 14 15:29:01 * * OM Bug 1009 has been created by mickey(AT)vanille-media.de Nov 14 15:29:02 * * Improve power consumption during suspend (userland part) Nov 14 15:29:03 * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1009 Nov 14 15:29:15 JFFS2 needs scanning the whole fs upon mount so that one is entirely useless Nov 14 15:29:21 flash filesystems don't make sense on SD, since SD provides a block-lookalike interface Nov 14 15:29:30 jffs2 can store a summary Nov 14 15:29:30 edistar: You have some flashfs-thingies, but they are mostly useful on "raw" flash devices. USB-sticks and the like do wear-leveling themselves. Nov 14 15:29:31 and (usually) does sector remapping internally to the card Nov 14 15:29:33 to shortcut the mount time Nov 14 15:29:37 except for dumb nand chips, everything does block level interfacing Nov 14 15:29:42 Lynet: ok, thx Nov 14 15:29:59 and supposedly wear leveling, too Nov 14 15:30:11 what is the difference between mmc and SD? Nov 14 15:30:16 if wear leveling is any good, 8GB swap is gonna last a long time Nov 14 15:30:23 edistar: sd can have drm of some sort Nov 14 15:30:29 electrically its the same Nov 14 15:30:45 Name, some spec changes, some unused drm thingie in SD. Oh, and I believe different standards org. Nov 14 15:30:57 why isn't there a microsdhc wikipedia entry :( Nov 14 15:31:08 because its sdhc in microsd formfactor Nov 14 15:31:09 sdhc is a protocol superset of sd Nov 14 15:31:19 microsd is just another form factor for more of the same Nov 14 15:31:30 is minisd dead, btw? Nov 14 15:31:35 not really D: Nov 14 15:31:44 havent come across it in a long time Nov 14 15:31:49 its still used sometimes Nov 14 15:31:54 micro is smaller and mmm cheap Nov 14 15:32:16 aside of size, microsd isnt much more expensive anymore Nov 14 15:32:30 and whats the point of minisd if there is microsd Nov 14 15:32:42 minisd allows for more capacity since it's physically larger Nov 14 15:32:46 edistar: Because. Different form factors. Nov 14 15:32:48 same with normal sd vs other two Nov 14 15:32:57 ok Nov 14 15:33:16 mini/normal sd is also slightly more robust since the circuit board is enclosed in a case instead of just epoxied Nov 14 15:33:25 ah, ok, thx Nov 14 15:33:29 i think when they came up with mini, flash was too big for microsd to be useful Nov 14 15:33:39 and much easier to handle Nov 14 15:33:45 microsd really is too small Nov 14 15:33:49 f*ing microsd Nov 14 15:33:57 * anrp sneezes and loses 16gb worth Nov 14 15:34:04 heh Nov 14 15:34:17 I kinda like micro, so much more fun to try to find the darn things. Nov 14 15:34:23 weird that sometime soon there will be 32gb on such a small space Nov 14 15:34:35 i say, back in the old days ... ! Nov 14 15:34:39 I have rs-mmc in my mobile.. Nov 14 15:34:50 the same as in n770 :) Nov 14 15:35:08 Then again, there's the hey cool factor of storing a omgwtf amount on something the size of a fingernail. Nov 14 15:35:22 its also good for embedded datalogging Nov 14 15:35:37 trying to source small quantities of multi-gbit chips is an exercise in futility Nov 14 15:35:43 Lynet: yeah, whole dvds in less than a fingernail Nov 14 15:35:52 but microsd is common Nov 14 15:35:56 just need spi and bam D: Nov 14 15:36:06 microsd raid :P Nov 14 15:36:39 buz: 20 cards in a raid 0 ;) should be fast enough :P Nov 14 15:36:48 should be way fast D: Nov 14 15:36:50 How come someone hasn't made a pci or whatever card with 8-16 sd/mini/micro slots to do a bring-your-own-storage SSD raid? Nov 14 15:36:52 access times would be smoking Nov 14 15:37:05 noise level and powerconsumption as well Nov 14 15:37:06 i-RAM D: Nov 14 15:37:11 its just that small thing, price ;) Nov 14 15:37:31 buz: yes... how much are 8gb cards? Nov 14 15:37:31 <$10us per gb is beginning to smell very good for main drives Nov 14 15:37:32 yeah someone should do an expresscard that can house 16 microsdhc cards Nov 14 15:37:38 edistar about 60EUR Nov 14 15:37:46 buz: that's reasonable.. Nov 14 15:37:56 not compared to 500GB SATA Nov 14 15:38:11 Pah. Compared to what you have to pay for pre-populated SSD, a card with SD-slots would pay for itself after one rev of capacity increase. Nov 14 15:38:12 for your massive fully-legal media collection? Nov 14 15:38:14 ;o Nov 14 15:38:29 actually, where i live, media collections are thought to be legal Nov 14 15:38:30 buz: well... you could have a small/fast drive and a big one for storage Nov 14 15:38:47 edistar: when 32GB SSD are available for 100EUR, I'll put one in my dell notebook Nov 14 15:38:50 i did that with my home machine, CF boot and magnetic data storage Nov 14 15:39:13 push to shove, 16GB might work too Nov 14 15:39:16 buz: then I'll get a pcmcia card and use it as sda in my notebook :) Nov 14 15:39:23 edistar: exactly Nov 14 15:39:28 only that i want expresscard ;) Nov 14 15:39:48 buz: heh ;) how fast is pcmcia or expresscard? Nov 14 15:39:58 expresscard theoretically can do PCI-e1x Nov 14 15:40:03 pcmcia == pci, expresscard == pci-e or usb Nov 14 15:40:06 which is 266MByte/s afaik Nov 14 15:40:14 buz: I think there are even sata adapters so you can use your card as sata drive.. Nov 14 15:40:14 pcmcia is ata i believe Nov 14 15:40:34 pcmcia is a full on pci interface D: Nov 14 15:40:38 with hotswap Nov 14 15:40:39 ok Nov 14 15:40:45 then wtf can you stick compactflash into pcmcia Nov 14 15:41:03 CF cards are 16 bit, which is pcmcia1.0 Nov 14 15:41:06 which isn't pci Nov 14 15:41:12 pcmcia2 is pci .. didnt specify that Nov 14 15:41:16 right, that one is ata Nov 14 15:41:40 ah Nov 14 15:41:43 edistar: i dont care for a sata adapter, i want to keep the sata hd Nov 14 15:42:54 buz: yeah, true, I'll keep my (new) drive too.. for storage it's quite useful Nov 14 15:42:55 Original PCMCIA was ISA, wasn't it? Cardbus = PCI, Expresscard = PCI-E Nov 14 15:43:07 ISA D: Nov 14 15:43:14 i don't think it was isa... but i'm not sure Nov 14 15:43:26 i'm pretty sure its ATA Nov 14 15:43:33 you can stick ata drives in there without adapter Nov 14 15:43:44 i should rip open my old ipod and try that someday Nov 14 15:43:58 *cheats and checks wikipedia* Nov 14 15:44:01 PCMCIA has an ISA and an ATA mode Nov 14 15:44:25 expresscard is a pretty smart design Nov 14 15:44:35 "The original standard was built around an 'enhanced' 16-bit ISA bus platform." Nov 14 15:44:38 usb so you can use a shitload of peripherals, pci-e for the fast stuff Nov 14 15:44:54 wikipedia says sdhc has a theoretical maximum storage of 2TB Nov 14 15:45:02 ah, but, ATA was originally designed to connect directly to an ISA bus Nov 14 15:45:03 so 32GB comes from fat32 Nov 14 15:45:04 so you are both right D: Nov 14 15:45:17 ah didnt know that about ATA Nov 14 15:45:23 would explain why ata sucks so badly Nov 14 15:45:41 anrp: D: != :D `or? Nov 14 15:45:52 erm Nov 14 15:45:55 * anrp means nothing by it Nov 14 15:45:57 habit Nov 14 15:46:05 monk? Nov 14 15:46:12 supposedly unhappy face Nov 14 15:46:14 Hehe, ok, just curious sine you write it a lot :P Nov 14 15:46:26 not really unhappy tho D: just a space filler Nov 14 15:47:28 You must you D: unless you have purchased the standard frown face. Nov 14 15:47:54 it's semi-opensource, a bit like Android Nov 14 15:47:58 http://www.despair.com/frownies.html Nov 14 15:48:09 heh Nov 14 15:48:22 wot Nov 14 15:48:25 * anrp does the illegal thing Nov 14 15:49:48 don;t mos people miss out the - now? Nov 14 15:49:56 ie :( rather than ;-( Nov 14 15:50:01 ie :( rather than :-( Nov 14 15:50:03 ;) er I mean :-) Nov 14 15:50:22 :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( Nov 14 15:50:28 I think you must use :-((tm) Nov 14 15:50:33 ScaredyCat: that unhappy? Nov 14 15:50:44 always edistar Nov 14 15:51:16 I always keep razor blades near by, just in case it all gets too much for me Nov 14 15:51:18 wtf Nov 14 15:51:19 because there are no gta-02s yet? ;) Nov 14 15:51:37 banana + chocolate powder = rum/vodka taste ( i dont remember what tastes what >_>) Nov 14 15:51:53 ...wtf? Nov 14 15:51:54 lol Nov 14 15:52:01 urgs.. Nov 14 15:52:02 i know! Nov 14 15:52:23 good though, mmm! Nov 14 15:53:27 :-(® Nov 14 15:53:39 ooooh, that's good. Nov 14 15:57:36 full width characters :o Nov 14 15:58:47 buz: btw, did you start talking about those flash disks because of these?: http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/ces-preview-2008/sandisk-vaulter-16gb-ssd-sneaks-in-via-pcie-port-322412.php Nov 14 16:03:01 flexd: if any, then it's rum. no way banana and chocolate powder gives you a wodka taste Nov 14 16:03:59 gi-el: possibly Nov 14 16:04:16 last alcohol i drank was rum, but that's like ages ago so.. >_> Nov 14 16:04:21 anyway Nov 14 16:04:47 could someone goto http://www.pipebytes.com and try picking up a file? (pick up code: 052827842878) Nov 14 16:04:58 Supposed to be some new cool file sending website, i wanna try it out Nov 14 16:05:07 So's android possible to port yet? Nov 14 16:05:19 #android Nov 14 16:05:24 Hehe, okay ;) Nov 14 16:05:32 noooooooooooooooooooooooo Nov 14 16:05:33 jorgenpt: android isn't even released yet.. Nov 14 16:05:40 how the *HELL* did i use 30gb in one day? :( Nov 14 16:05:50 flexd: is slow Nov 14 16:06:05 it's uploading directly from me Nov 14 16:06:06 edistar: Oh, okay, just an sdk :) Nov 14 16:06:12 relayed trough that site afaik Nov 14 16:06:22 flexd: how did you? Nov 14 16:06:24 flexd: ah that explains Nov 14 16:06:31 edistar: downloads probably :/ Nov 14 16:06:34 flexd: still is slow :) Nov 14 16:06:40 but i remember having 30gb free on my external drive last night Nov 14 16:06:43 now there's 141mb :< Nov 14 16:06:46 flexd: like, 10kb/s Nov 14 16:06:51 gi-el: meh Nov 14 16:06:58 i guess it can be used in desparate times Nov 14 16:07:02 15 now Nov 14 16:07:06 http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/blowing-up-stuff/new-frontier-hotel-imploded-before-your-eyes-now-a-nondescript-pile-of-rubble-322476.php Nov 14 16:07:15 that's cool - countdown in fireworks Nov 14 16:07:53 nice Nov 14 16:11:17 I like the countdown Nov 14 16:11:25 very cool Nov 14 16:11:28 should do that at home :P without the dynamite though.. Nov 14 16:12:01 it would probably scare the crap out of your neighbours =) Nov 14 16:12:21 i need more harddrives :(, filling up 300gb in 10days = bad Nov 14 16:12:23 ...and? D: Nov 14 16:12:24 yes :) well, I only have 2 neighbours in about 200 yards, and I think they might like it Nov 14 16:12:33 things that go boom Nov 14 16:12:35 flexd: 250gb drives only cost 40 euro Nov 14 16:12:36 lots of people like those Nov 14 16:12:37 D: Nov 14 16:12:48 i have tons Nov 14 16:13:24 dlsmgsgjfkgjklgjg Nov 14 16:13:31 flexd: not enough space in your case? Nov 14 16:13:57 ran out of sata plugs Nov 14 16:14:16 oh, not good Nov 14 16:14:25 flexd: never heard of someone having that problem D: Nov 14 16:14:40 flexd: Stop downloading all that pr0n Nov 14 16:14:43 i can probably fit more Nov 14 16:14:46 CM: no pron Nov 14 16:14:47 there's an 8port sata pci-64bit card on the cheap out Nov 14 16:14:47 just shows Nov 14 16:14:58 MV88SX6081 based Nov 14 16:14:59 Just teasing :) Nov 14 16:15:06 i got mine for $150 or so? Nov 14 16:15:08 prison break, house, heroes, bionic woman, lost, fallen, kyle xy Nov 14 16:15:17 a few GB a month to put it that way :P Nov 14 16:15:21 think it works in 32bit pci slots as well Nov 14 16:15:24 flexd: Good ones, at lest the first seasons.. Nov 14 16:17:08 mhm Nov 14 16:17:16 dunno how im out of space though Nov 14 16:17:37 2x 250gb and 300gb drives in this, 500gb++ in my server, all stuffed :/ Nov 14 16:17:41 it's d-day Nov 14 16:18:08 flexd: what are you downloading? Nov 14 16:18:10 flexd: How about dumping old series you've already watched? Nov 14 16:18:27 flexd: maybe compress? Nov 14 16:18:39 edistar: maybe Nov 14 16:18:42 CM: maybe Nov 14 16:19:21 flexd: how many TB do you have in total? :P I'd recommend tapes for you ;) Nov 14 16:19:24 /dev/mapper/big1 5.3T 5.3T 1.7G 100% /mnt/big1 Nov 14 16:19:32 uh oh Nov 14 16:19:32 Deleting stuff is not an option :P Nov 14 16:19:38 Tronic: give :( Nov 14 16:19:38 nerd dick waving contest Nov 14 16:20:06 edistar: HDDs are the cheapest way to store large amounts of data. Nov 14 16:20:28 Tapes and DVDs are much more expensive when you account the work required. Nov 14 16:20:34 Tronic: how many drives do you have? mirrored in any way? Nov 14 16:20:56 big1 = eight 750 GB drives in RAID-5. Nov 14 16:21:07 puh Nov 14 16:21:15 I'm happy with my 500gb NFS ;) Nov 14 16:21:34 17:18 <~flexd> /dev/hdd1 166G 122G 36G 78% /mnt/stasj Nov 14 16:21:35 17:18 <~flexd> /dev/hdc1 147G 74G 66G 53% /mnt/stasj2 Nov 14 16:21:35 17:18 <~flexd> /dev/hdb1 166G 188M 157G 1% /mnt/stasj3 Nov 14 16:21:37 :/ Nov 14 16:21:52 not full anymore! Nov 14 16:21:55 show-offs :P Nov 14 16:22:09 flexd: How come you actually have hundreds of gigs of free space? Nov 14 16:22:11 uh oh Nov 14 16:22:13 no raid D: Nov 14 16:22:19 pfffttt Nov 14 16:22:24 Tronic: I deleted a folder called "downloads" Nov 14 16:22:26 /dev/dm-1 459G 182G 277G 40% /media/Buffalo 500Gb, yay for external HDDs Nov 14 16:22:37 basically that machine is my backlog of all shit i've downloaded that's pending to get dvd'd Nov 14 16:22:41 * LarstiQ flaunts his 40G total space Nov 14 16:22:46 btw, is there a better solution than NFS nowadays? Nov 14 16:23:09 edistar: Not really, AFAIK. CIFS is technically better but the Linux implementation of it is very bad. Nov 14 16:23:39 Tronic: ah, CIFS is MS, isn't it? samba or so? Nov 14 16:25:15 edistar: Microsoft uses it, yes, but they don't own the format. Nov 14 16:25:47 http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-heizer-cifs-v1-spec-00 Nov 14 16:26:05 thx Nov 14 16:26:09 There are probably more recent specs, too, but that's what I got. Nov 14 16:39:00 edistar: depends on what you want to do Nov 14 16:39:18 i find sshfs quite convenient as it needs no setup whatsoever Nov 14 16:39:28 buz: how does it work? Nov 14 16:39:30 but its a resource hog, obviously Nov 14 16:39:32 buz: is it fast? Nov 14 16:39:34 hm Nov 14 16:39:42 if cpu is doing encryption fast enough, it's pretty fast Nov 14 16:39:56 essentially, it's a fuse layer that talks SFTP i believe Nov 14 16:40:00 fileserver has 2ghz.. should be alright Nov 14 16:40:06 plenty fast to stream data then Nov 14 16:40:20 but no match for nfs, obviously Nov 14 16:40:31 ok... Nov 14 16:40:34 well, I Nov 14 16:40:36 will see Nov 14 16:40:54 SMB is by far the most widely supported one but samba is a weird beast Nov 14 16:41:08 :P Nov 14 16:42:06 might also want to take a look at webdav maybe Nov 14 16:42:54 ah, ok Nov 14 16:43:40 if compatibility is the main thing, go samba Nov 14 16:43:46 if you're paranoid, go sshfs Nov 14 16:43:53 only have mac and linux in my house :) Nov 14 16:44:03 not sure if the mac can do fuse these days Nov 14 16:44:17 openvpn + anything will work also :) Nov 14 16:44:32 fatal-: not a bad idea at all! :) Nov 14 16:47:44 openvpn is much harder to setup though Nov 14 16:48:03 but more fun :) Nov 14 16:48:17 sshfs ftw ... Nov 14 16:48:20 by using static keys, it's not that hugely hard Nov 14 16:48:22 screw the mac Nov 14 16:50:01 fatal-: or use tinc Nov 14 16:50:37 largely, vpn is a solution to a ms created problem Nov 14 16:51:11 buz: what do you mean? Nov 14 16:51:31 in ms land, protocols often dont come with ssl capabilities Nov 14 16:51:59 so often enough, people use it to connect publically accessible hosts Nov 14 16:52:13 (it fits a definite need if you want to actually connect NETWORKS though) Nov 14 16:52:55 for example, my uni requires you to use VPN to access stuff from home where ssl would do just fine Nov 14 16:53:48 hm, unpractical then Nov 14 16:53:55 it's not only ms Nov 14 16:54:08 nfs is not really ssl friendly .. Nov 14 16:54:50 fatal-: nfs is really insecure, but at home nobody will sniff my network or connect.. I would notice ;) Nov 14 16:55:41 VPN is often better solution than SSL or SSH. Nov 14 16:56:16 Making a secure connection takes a long time (on slow computers or slow links), but VPN only needs to do that once, where SSL and SSH do it once per connection. Nov 14 16:57:19 and one can hide the computational load on specialized devices on the edges of the network, if wanted Nov 14 16:59:19 Tronic not when you use 'ssh -L' for ssl-tunnels Nov 14 17:00:37 kristian-m: Well, that's essentially a very simple VPN. Nov 14 17:00:45 right Nov 14 17:06:12 -D Nov 14 17:12:22 anyone have experience with the TI voyage 200 and linux? Nov 14 17:14:07 nfs is not really friendly to anything Nov 14 17:14:18 starts with the utterly braindead security model Nov 14 17:26:21 ah!!! I understand! the bubbles below my display protection foil are vanishing after a little time Nov 14 17:26:41 josch: hm? good ;) Nov 14 17:27:53 * CM thinks having plastics over things, sofas or screens, is something grandparents do. :P Nov 14 17:28:14 CM: so comparable, sofas and screens ;) Nov 14 17:28:17 CM my thoughts too Nov 14 17:28:20 or murderers Nov 14 17:28:26 that chop people up Nov 14 17:28:29 CM an remotes Nov 14 17:28:51 CM, in fact - without the bubbles the foil is not visible anymore Nov 14 17:28:53 Pfff.. It's just that my grandma has her "new" sofa still in the plastic to keep it clean Nov 14 17:29:16 josch: And the touchscreen works as good as without? Nov 14 17:29:30 the foil is too thin to make any difference Nov 14 17:29:43 I do not even recognize its presence Nov 14 17:29:46 Ok. The one that came with the phone sure wasn Nov 14 17:29:48 't Nov 14 17:30:04 CM, yes that's the reason I bought new ones Nov 14 17:30:32 Well, I'm sure my Neo will break before I scratch the screen that bad Nov 14 17:31:08 I really need some math software for OM, does anyone have any idea what I can port? something like DERIVE Nov 14 17:31:28 edistar: try maxima... Nov 14 17:31:31 edistar: Octave? O_o ;) Nov 14 17:31:38 edistar, wooo math software is a good idea! Nov 14 17:31:57 my personal graphical calculator Nov 14 17:32:09 edistar: I just hope you won't use it to cheat at exams :-P Nov 14 17:32:14 i find the screen very resistant - no scratches yet (wood touching) Nov 14 17:32:26 mmp: we are allowed to use CAS calcs at exams.. Nov 14 17:32:31 Is't there some nice HP calc emulator or so? Nov 14 17:32:40 edistar: :-) Nice then... Nov 14 17:32:56 mmp: yes, the voyage 200 at the moment Nov 14 17:33:26 edistar there is free42 in Alessandros repository Nov 14 17:34:52 kristian-m: free42? Nov 14 17:35:10 kristian-m: It was that one I was thinking of http://home.planet.nl/~demun000/thomas_projects/free42/ Nov 14 17:35:40 well are you looking for CAS (maxima, maple, ...) or calculator (matlab, octave, ...) Nov 14 17:36:47 anrp: ideal would be something like DERIVE, CAS, octave doesn't provide that? Nov 14 17:37:00 octave, matlab don't do symbolic Nov 14 17:37:05 well not very well Nov 14 17:37:20 hm, not very practical then.. any OSS software that does? Nov 14 17:37:25 maxima :p Nov 14 17:37:32 is it oss? Nov 14 17:37:36 it is Nov 14 17:37:42 cool Nov 14 17:37:45 lithp, even Nov 14 17:37:46 er.. Nov 14 17:37:47 * anrp coughs Nov 14 17:38:16 hey, somebody should create a bitbake recipe for maxima. Nov 14 17:38:17 is it console based? Nov 14 17:38:20 and a moko ui :) Nov 14 17:38:20 it is Nov 14 17:38:32 theres an x frontend for it Nov 14 17:38:33 iirc Nov 14 17:38:36 xmaxima? Nov 14 17:38:39 part of the main pkg Nov 14 17:38:45 anders_: wxmaxima too Nov 14 17:38:53 err, anrp :) Nov 14 17:39:04 you can also run it inside emacs but thats not saying much Nov 14 17:39:05 woops Nov 14 17:39:09 killed my ubuntu :( Nov 14 17:39:20 i guess starting 10000000 threads was a bad bad idea Nov 14 17:39:34 TEN MEELION THREADS Nov 14 17:39:45 i ctrl+c but it still freezes :( Nov 14 17:39:52 forkbomb? Nov 14 17:39:58 close Nov 14 17:40:09 flexd: just wait for a while, it might settle down:) Nov 14 17:40:22 for x in range(0,10000000000000): blah = MyThread(x) blah.start() Nov 14 17:40:23 wooooo Nov 14 17:40:34 .. Nov 14 17:40:41 that's what i did Nov 14 17:40:47 does maxima use fortan routines? Nov 14 17:40:47 Ctrl-Alt-F1, login and do a killall Nov 14 17:40:47 ... why Nov 14 17:40:48 ~_~ Nov 14 17:40:49 learning 'bout threads.. :< Nov 14 17:40:49 :/ Nov 14 17:41:02 flexd: you either have massively distributed enviromnent, or massively insane idea Nov 14 17:41:03 flexd: shouldn't you use xrange for that? ;) Nov 14 17:41:08 :) Nov 14 17:41:16 pH5: should i? Nov 14 17:41:26 mmp: i have a laptop with ubuntu Nov 14 17:41:31 flexed, it would be more efficient Nov 14 17:41:39 * mmp guesses the latter :-/ Nov 14 17:41:45 i have no idea what the diffrence between xrange and range is so.. :> Nov 14 17:42:18 the x Nov 14 17:42:21 x makes everything better Nov 14 17:42:29 flexd: range should create a huge list object, xrange is a generator Nov 14 17:42:36 so you can kill your pc while saving memory Nov 14 17:43:52 heh ;) Nov 14 17:43:56 threads seem to be half shabby anyhow Nov 14 17:44:06 starting 1000 threads only a few finish Nov 14 17:44:20 or maybe i cant read, who knows Nov 14 17:44:25 threads is evul Nov 14 17:44:54 ive a got a little problem when compiling dfu-util on debian, anyone keen to help me? :) Nov 14 17:49:06 I don't like xmaxima.. Nov 14 17:49:10 strange software Nov 14 17:49:16 hm. is there a lisp implementation in OE already? Nov 14 17:57:19 hey is openmoko using EABI on ARM ? Nov 14 17:57:57 no_mind: yes Nov 14 17:58:01 openmoko is curretnly EABI - was OABI Nov 14 17:58:09 hmm Nov 14 17:58:48 so effectively if i port an for Debain EABI ARM port, it should work on openmoko ? Nov 14 17:59:23 yes Nov 14 17:59:24 no_mind: What "an"? Nov 14 17:59:43 no_mind: If you mean a full debian build, then both should work Nov 14 18:00:13 no_mind: The kernel should have EABI and OABI fallback enabled. Just mixed userspace is difficult. Nov 14 18:01:07 stefan_schmidt, an application Nov 14 18:01:28 no_mind: OK, then make sure it is EABI. Nov 14 18:02:59 i am working on porting pstco to arm platform and had limited success. Problem is since openmoko is still under development and openmoko build take lot of time and bandwidth, I was thinking of doing all the R&D on debian port and then give openmoko a shot Nov 14 18:04:39 no_mind: hmm, the question is if you really safe time this way. It's a question how familiar you are with the debian port stuff. Nov 14 18:05:01 hmm good question Nov 14 18:05:48 well then what is the alternative ? I dont have access to a phone or ARM hardware as of now and trying any changes on openmoko platform just eats away lot of time Nov 14 18:06:51 no_mind: bitbake -c devshell gives you a shell with all pathes and stuff for cross compile set. In this shell you can just do make and friends. Should be a real time safer. Nov 14 18:08:26 ok Nov 14 18:08:30 let me try Nov 14 18:09:16 no_mind: Of course you need to build the toolchain first. Personally I would build a complete image once and devel on this base Nov 14 18:10:29 stupid question: if I want to develop python apps for OM, how best to do it? Nov 14 18:11:15 stefan_schmidt, problem is that openmoko is still under development and some times the changes in the svn throw everything out of gear Nov 14 18:11:42 edistar, what kind of app ? python works out of the box on openmoko but not all pakages are available Nov 14 18:12:08 no_mind: preferably an app that uses gtk, but is wx available too? Nov 14 18:12:15 edistar: build your gui with glade, and use libglade on the neo Nov 14 18:12:17 edistar, i am the admin for python-openmoko project and we are documenting the process for developing the python apps Nov 14 18:12:30 edistar, pygtk works on openmoko Nov 14 18:12:54 edistar, just build the app, create an ipk and inject into the image or device Nov 14 18:13:25 no_mind: cool Nov 14 18:13:43 no_mind: just have to learn how to create ipks, but I suppose that won't be such a great tast Nov 14 18:13:47 s/tast/task Nov 14 18:14:09 edistar, but beware we are not sure of the python apps on openmoko as of now Nov 14 18:14:19 no_mind: what do you mean? Nov 14 18:14:33 im on debian and trying to get dfu-util to compile, i apt 'got' libusb-dev, i even compiled libusb-0.1.12, as i was getting the following err Nov 14 18:14:36 ./configure: line 3331: syntax error near unexpected token `USB,' Nov 14 18:14:36 ./configure: line 3331: `PKG_CHECK_MODULES(USB, libusb >= 0.1.4,,' Nov 14 18:14:40 edistar, though python is snappy on the device, but how a python app will behave in long run is still under testing Nov 14 18:14:55 and i still am, i have specified all different lib dir paths and still get this, any ideas? Nov 14 18:15:00 edistar, we dont know if there are any memory leaks or something Nov 14 18:15:09 no_mind: I will only have a device when the gta-02s are out, so you have plenty time to optimize :P Nov 14 18:15:18 and I will be happy to submit bug reports Nov 14 18:15:47 edistar, well sure, even i am waiting for gta02 Nov 14 18:16:00 no_mind: Dinner, we can talk later Nov 14 18:16:17 no_mind: and I suppose the apps will work on an x86 pc just like on the neo? Nov 14 18:16:27 stefan_schmidt, sure i am here Nov 14 18:16:38 edistar, more or less Nov 14 18:16:46 no_mind: h fasziniert | Nov 14 18:16:46 |(19:05:42) edistar: schoen | Nov 14 18:16:46 |(19:08:44) edistar: sehr schoen! | Nov 14 18:16:52 grrr, sry Nov 14 18:17:04 edistar, thing is the bindings for libmokoui are under another project due to goofup by gforge admin Nov 14 18:17:05 I hate this notebook internal mouse Nov 14 18:17:34 no_mind: if I only use gtk.. Nov 14 18:18:37 edistar, well with only gtk you will get everything under one tree but the problems of gtk apps will come along withthe parcel Nov 14 18:18:44 http://blog.haerwu.biz/2007/11/14/git-and-i-do-not-match/ Nov 14 18:19:04 have to eat, cu Nov 14 18:19:06 no_mind: thanks Nov 14 18:19:16 welcome Nov 14 18:19:21 I'll just starting dusting up my knowledge of python and gtk ;) Nov 14 18:19:47 Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo Nov 14 18:19:52 ScaredyCat: what? Nov 14 18:20:04 my neo... it's totally dead Nov 14 18:20:16 long live neo :-p Nov 14 18:20:29 ScaredyCat: neo or battery? Nov 14 18:20:37 neo Nov 14 18:21:09 mine too Nov 14 18:21:17 :x Nov 14 18:21:22 <_diego_> are u sure? Nov 14 18:21:44 it was powered on all day, plugged into the lappy... and I just noticed it was off.. so tried to power it on... nada Nov 14 18:21:45 <_diego_> sometimes looks like is dead and then u find is alive Nov 14 18:22:20 <_diego_> remove battery, press power button, put on battery, press power again Nov 14 18:22:24 Well, that neatly solves the GSM firmware, the GSM no-850, and the missing GPS driver problem all in one fell swoop. Nov 14 18:22:42 You'll have to replace it with the euromoko GTA02 Nov 14 18:23:58 <_diego_> hope it work ^^ Nov 14 18:24:50 need help with a libdir error when compiling dfu-util on debian, ive done everything i can think of :( Nov 14 18:25:06 Lucas-: pastebin error Nov 14 18:25:11 `pastebin Nov 14 18:25:17 ./configure: line 3331: syntax error near unexpected token `USB,' Nov 14 18:25:17 ./configure: line 3331: `PKG_CHECK_MODULES(USB, libusb >= 0.1.4,,' Nov 14 18:25:34 i even compiled libusb Nov 14 18:25:41 which ver of debian? Nov 14 18:25:45 etch Nov 14 18:26:16 problem is with dfu-util-native? Nov 14 18:26:35 this is compipling source files from openmoko web Nov 14 18:26:47 http://svn.openmoko.org/trunk/src/host/dfu-util/ Nov 14 18:26:48 that ^ Nov 14 18:26:55 a.. you build it by hand.. Nov 14 18:27:03 there are binaries? Nov 14 18:27:04 Lucas-: apt-get install libusb-dev Nov 14 18:27:10 hrw : done Nov 14 18:27:17 same error Nov 14 18:27:38 I do only OE builds for dfu-util Nov 14 18:27:47 i set path to libs on ./configure command with --libdir=/path Nov 14 18:27:57 i386 binary is available on openmoko server Nov 14 18:28:04 hunting ... Nov 14 18:28:14 buildhost.openmoko.org Nov 14 18:28:30 http://buildhost.openmoko.org/OM2007.2/tmp/deploy/glibc/images/fic-gta01/ Nov 14 18:28:31 404 Nov 14 18:28:39 for me Nov 14 18:28:46 hence i began compiling the source Nov 14 18:28:50 ok, ... hrm... Nov 14 18:28:55 http://buildhost.openmoko.org/OM2007.2/tmp/deploy/glibc/images/neo1973/dfu-util Nov 14 18:28:59 <_diego_> also mine neo looks dead, but it is not... Nov 14 18:29:14 hrw : trying, thanks Nov 14 18:29:28 <_diego_> it was usb attached, but the battery is discharged ... -.- Nov 14 18:29:41 ^ is that common? Nov 14 18:29:47 i just got my neo today Nov 14 18:30:15 <_diego_> is the second time it happens in two months ... Nov 14 18:30:31 hrw, you rock, thanks! :) Nov 14 18:32:52 <_diego_> ScaredyCat, have u check if the battery is charged? Nov 14 18:33:27 _diego_: it's been plugged in all day, and was on - I was ssh'd into it.. Nov 14 18:34:43 <_diego_> mine was plugged too, and pc was on. But the tester say 3.3V... quite strange Nov 14 18:34:48 ScaredyCat: sure it is off, not only screen off? Nov 14 18:35:18 well the ssh session is dead Nov 14 18:35:58 do any of you use *nix in VM ware to connect to the device? Nov 14 18:36:05 just wondering if that would work Nov 14 18:36:40 <_diego_> it can... but probably it's tricky ^^ Nov 14 18:37:16 <_diego_> expecially configuring the route to the neo Nov 14 18:37:44 Lucas-: VMware can't run dfu-util to reflash it. It might be able to run the terminal emulation, but I wouldn't trust it. Nov 14 18:38:19 right, need 2nd laptop Nov 14 18:40:30 ScaredyCat: where were your images again? which link? Nov 14 18:40:50 http://buildhost.automated.it/ Nov 14 18:41:04 ScaredyCat: thx Nov 14 18:41:51 ScaredyCat: where does the uboot file get saved? Nov 14 18:47:16 it actually starts, my qemu emulation :) Nov 14 18:48:41 * balrog-kun needs to try flashing a real Neo from under qemu Nov 14 18:52:10 Does it support OpenGL? :P Nov 14 18:54:15 u-boot? :) Nov 14 18:55:34 so Nov 14 18:55:54 bloody neo battery still flat Nov 14 18:56:06 Nov 14 18:56:30 PP|Spydon: you won't see openGL for about maybe 3/4 year at least Nov 14 18:56:55 sdl_gfx then? :) Nov 14 18:57:05 PP|Spydon: 2d driver support ;) Nov 14 18:57:25 PP|Spydon: the smedia chip in the neo1973 supports 3d, but only limited Nov 14 18:57:37 PP|Spydon: but it's only in the gta-02 Nov 14 18:57:42 I see Nov 14 18:58:01 ok, it seems to be alive again! Nov 14 18:58:03 PP|Spydon: OM isn't working on a 3d driver Nov 14 18:58:07 ScaredyCat: congrats ;) Nov 14 18:58:11 * ScaredyCat goes to poke about Nov 14 18:58:14 edistar: in what way it is limited? Nov 14 18:58:17 ScaredyCat: :-)? Nov 14 18:58:34 balrog-kun: the chip only does 512x512 3d acceleration Nov 14 19:01:11 <_diego_> ScaredyCat, GOOD Nov 14 19:02:06 edistar: acording to smediatech.com it 3362 does 3D / 2D graphics in VGA resolution Nov 14 19:02:14 s/it// Nov 14 19:02:15 balrog-kun meant: edistar: acording to smediatech.com 3362 does 3D / 2D graphics in VGA resolution Nov 14 19:02:29 balrog-kun: well, it doesn't, raster said Nov 14 19:02:31 edistar, which resulotions can it do in 2d? Nov 14 19:02:37 PP|Spydon: VGA Nov 14 19:03:14 balrog-kun: it's best to ask raster himself, I'm not quite sure about the details.. Nov 14 19:03:40 edistar: i don't know who to trust :p Nov 14 19:03:46 the manufacturer is supposed to know Nov 14 19:03:57 and who knows does openmoko guys got any docs on how to make 3d working.. Nov 14 19:04:14 balrog-kun: raster was quite annoyed, because somehow on closer inspection the chip didn't seem to do what it promised Nov 14 19:04:19 but i wouldn't call 512x512 limited Nov 14 19:04:24 hrw: they don't, there is no driver Nov 14 19:04:33 balrog-kun: you'd have to scale down Nov 14 19:04:34 and to make 3d working you need to know how to write 3d drivers Nov 14 19:04:44 raster works on 2d rather Nov 14 19:04:47 I think Nov 14 19:04:57 hrw: they have the specs by smedia, but decided not to write a 3d driver Nov 14 19:05:05 he was on irc a few days ago and told us about it Nov 14 19:05:35 I'm only saying what he said, as far as I can remember Nov 14 19:05:41 * balrog-kun also thinks there are higher priority tasks at the moment Nov 14 19:05:52 edistar: I just wonder will they release gta02 in first or second half of 2008 Nov 14 19:06:00 * * OM Bug 1010 has been created by thebohemian(AT)gmx.net Nov 14 19:06:01 * * Disable pulseaudio's CPU limiter to prevent shutting itself down Nov 14 19:06:02 * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1010 Nov 14 19:06:05 hrw: I think it will be shipped in january Nov 14 19:06:12 hrw: you're optimistic :) Nov 14 19:06:15 about 2008 Nov 14 19:06:16 edistar: I do not Nov 14 19:06:29 balrog-kun: psst - you know too much Nov 14 19:06:40 ;D Nov 14 19:06:48 * balrog-kun isn't 100% serious ;) Nov 14 19:07:09 hrw: why not? Nov 14 19:07:47 edistar: when did you heard about something gta02 related from someone from OM-core? Nov 14 19:08:05 last time? Nov 14 19:08:25 hrw: a few days ago, on irc, they said it could be possible that they will sell the gta-02 end december, january Nov 14 19:08:39 I want one in time for christmas ;_; Nov 14 19:08:51 ewon: it will be just too late ;) Nov 14 19:08:55 bah Nov 14 19:09:03 yes.. Nov 14 19:09:15 oh well. it'll be sweet when it is out Nov 14 19:09:26 say, do we know if GTA02 will charge ok on a dummy USB charger? Nov 14 19:09:41 and I can laud my open-source-phone eliteness over all the blackberry-using swine in the office Nov 14 19:13:42 hhf423: if your neo isn't charging, make sure that the modem is off by taking the battery out and disconnecting DC for a minute Nov 14 19:14:18 balrog-kun: yeah, thanks, I know all the voodoo. I already sacrificed a black penguin Nov 14 19:15:48 the question is, will the pain go away with gta02? Nov 14 19:18:18 hhf423 no. neo1973 will always adhere the usb-spec as far as possible. so dummy chargers will only work when they have the right or atleast a known resistor on the id-pin Nov 14 19:18:50 outch Nov 14 19:20:03 hhf423 gta02 will be able to detect if there is a dumb charger connected and which one and set the current respectively. just drawing more than 100mA without knowing what the source can provide is no option we will take. just too dangerous. (will kill perfectly working hardware) Nov 14 19:20:32 ah, well, if there will be proper power management in the future, I will probably not have the problem so often Nov 14 19:20:39 <_diego_> roh, there will be a charger compatible with neo sold by fic? Nov 14 19:20:55 _diego_ well.. we are working on that Nov 14 19:21:13 yeah, a compatible charger will also solve the issue somewhat Nov 14 19:23:51 well... I sort of have a charger for the FIC battery Nov 14 19:24:04 it's a nokia BL-6C desktop charger Nov 14 19:24:07 hhf423 besides that.. well.. i never had a problem finding a powered usb plug in any flat Nov 14 19:24:09 it works perfect for me Nov 14 19:24:43 hhf423 as in 'host controller there, not dumb charger, able to supply 500mA(which rules out most hubs)' Nov 14 19:25:25 roh: will we love the fic neo developers and om developers when gta02 gets released? Nov 14 19:25:45 ? Nov 14 19:26:00 nevermind. Nov 14 19:26:26 .oO(uh yeah.. lets do an orgy as a release party *duck Nov 14 19:26:29 *) Nov 14 19:26:59 would be problematic to find a location that fits for everyone wouldn't it? Nov 14 19:27:03 :-D Nov 14 19:27:42 As long as you can turn on 500mA charging fairly easy I'm happy Nov 14 19:27:54 I mean even when you're on a dumb charger Nov 14 19:28:11 roh: simplest usb host chipset are probably ~10-20usd Nov 14 19:29:12 hrw yeah, so? even they cannot signal more than 500mA supply allowed ;) Nov 14 19:29:57 hrw distinguishing different charger-models by using the id-pin is totally ok i would think. the tolerance of the used resistor is 1% or better Nov 14 19:30:18 roh: did you say that the GT02 will have the sensor that the GTA01 does not? Nov 14 19:30:30 roh: but you have control on both sizes so if OM-charger is used then OM-device can detect it and get as much as possible instead of 500mA Nov 14 19:31:33 will use GTA02 the same battery? BL-6C? Nov 14 19:31:41 hhf423: bl-5c it is Nov 14 19:31:41 roh: sensor to detect the network of 50k resistors Nov 14 19:31:54 Writchie gta02 will (at least thats planned) be able to measure the id-pin via adc Nov 14 19:32:00 hrw: so a different battery then? Nov 14 19:32:12 hhf423: 5c is smaller then 6c Nov 14 19:32:26 roh: it was planned for GT01 too according to old wiki ;) Nov 14 19:32:43 s/GT01/GTA01 Nov 14 19:32:45 ok. so it does not make sense to invest in a desktop charger then. Nov 14 19:32:47 hrw the charger we are playing around with currently will be able to supply 1 or 2 amp i think. so 1000mA charging could be selecte.. but i cannot say that definitively yet Nov 14 19:33:36 hhf423 we are not using the same batterys as nokia, so the numbers do not really help me Nov 14 19:33:44 yes! neo boots again. Nov 14 19:34:07 roh: IIRC all phones sold in China will have to meet USB charger specs Nov 14 19:34:12 when all goes well we will have new batterys which allow for more fine-grained measurements.. but we will see what comes out of development. Nov 14 19:34:26 Writchie: You do recall correctly :) Nov 14 19:34:40 roh, whatever. its not the same battery, so I will not go and buy a charger just to have it for two months. Just please supply a working charger with the next model. Nov 14 19:34:52 Writchie usb charger specs? well., we adhere the usb spec atm. means only pull 100 or 500mA depeding on what the host allows Nov 14 19:35:28 hhf423 what do you all need external chargers for? just plug the device to any linux pc and be fine Nov 14 19:35:36 roh: meeting specs mean detecting the standard dumb charger and - well - charging at 500ma Nov 14 19:35:57 Writchie there are no real specs for dumb chargers which are really usb i think Nov 14 19:35:59 roh, when I am traveling, I do not have a linux pc with me Nov 14 19:36:01 roh: like the linux desktop in my car? Nov 14 19:36:11 roh: maybe he doesnt have a linux pc available all the time Nov 14 19:36:57 roh, if you only want to sell the neo to hardcore linux geeks, you're on the right track, they will always have one around. but for everyone else, I think you are way off mark Nov 14 19:38:03 flexd well.. then its also not time to use a moko there atm. *ducks* .. atm it is for hardcore geeks. when its for people who actually wanna use it in every-day-use we WILL have different usabilities for that Nov 14 19:38:30 roh: gta01 use batteries compatible with Nokia BL-5C battery. Nov 14 19:38:36 now you're just being stupid Nov 14 19:38:55 hrw wrong. Nov 14 19:38:57 roh: gta01 works without problems with bl-5c, gta01 battery can be charged wit 3rdparty nokia charger Nov 14 19:38:57 and hiding behind "its a development kit, not a phone" excuse Nov 14 19:39:09 roh: yeah i understand that, i'm not exactly a hardcore geek, but i'm gonna try my best to play with it :), but for the future! Nov 14 19:39:11 nokia products refuse to work with gta01 battery Nov 14 19:39:23 roh: I *have* bl-5c in gta01bv4 now Nov 14 19:39:27 pathetic Nov 14 19:39:30 hrw nokia phones will not charge the battery and mokos will not charge the nokia one. they have different uses for the 3rd pin Nov 14 19:39:52 roh: I *charge* gta01 battery in 3rd party charger for nokia batteries (charger do not care about 3rd pin) Nov 14 19:39:56 hrw, they are a bit compatible with BL-5C the FIC battery is really a BL-6C Nov 14 19:40:12 does totally not matter if you have a charger which charges anything :-) Nov 14 19:40:38 BL-5C ist thinner than the FIC battery - the BL-6C looks exactly like the FIC Nov 14 19:40:41 hrw, what brand is that charger? Nov 14 19:40:53 hrw, I'm doing the same Nov 14 19:40:56 please.. it may be the same size and compareable technical parameters, but since the 3rd pin is used different they are simply not directly 'compatible' Nov 14 19:41:00 highlyhochmin taiwan ltd? Nov 14 19:41:14 hhf423, you get this charger for 5€ at ebay Nov 14 19:41:15 hhf423: total unnamed Nov 14 19:41:36 hrw, I examined the charger and copied the circuit to build my own Nov 14 19:41:49 josch: you forgot the 5€ for shipping... :-) Nov 14 19:41:51 its nothing more than 6 resistors and 3 transistors Nov 14 19:41:53 hhf423: http://blog.haerwu.biz/2007/04/18/3rdparty-chargers-for-neo1973/ Nov 14 19:41:59 17:18 <~flexd> /dev/hdd1 166G 122G 36G 78% /mnt/stasj Nov 14 19:41:59 17:18 <~flexd> /dev/hdc1 147G 74G 66G 53% /mnt/stasj2 Nov 14 19:41:59 17:18 <~flexd> /dev/hdb1 166G 188M 157G 1% /mnt/stasj3 Nov 14 19:42:01 woops Nov 14 19:42:03 damnit :/ Nov 14 19:42:19 sorry, was gonna right click the link, forgot im not in ubuntu anymore :/ Nov 14 19:42:33 .oO(don't say you have not been warned... don't charge li-ion batterys withz just resistors) Nov 14 19:43:10 <_diego_> and 3 transistor? ^^ Nov 14 19:44:31 2007-11-14 18:55:13] df -h your big raid array for me :) Nov 14 19:44:31 [2007-11-14 19:40:53] Which one ? Nov 14 19:44:31 [2007-11-14 19:41:37] storage-pool 19T 2.5G 19T 1% /storage-pool Nov 14 19:44:31 [2007-11-14 19:41:40] That one ? Nov 14 19:45:08 bloody hell Nov 14 19:45:13 well I have drawn a schematic I wil redraw it in inkscape and post it in the wiki Nov 14 19:45:51 _diego_ also not with 3 transistors.. atleast not while adhering the charging-spec (which does not allow for more than a single-digit deviation from the graph they give you) Nov 14 19:46:34 hhf423, do you care to disassemble your charger and tell if there is more in it than in mine? Nov 14 19:47:00 well 3 transistors and 6 resistors now worked for my batteries for over a year now Nov 14 19:47:01 josch: I don not have such a charger, thats exactly my problem :-( Nov 14 19:47:13 but I see they are 5,99 on ebay Nov 14 19:47:16 ah it was hrw Nov 14 19:47:22 hrw? Nov 14 19:47:46 josch: it is not disassemblable Nov 14 19:48:01 actually, they are EUR 1 plus 5,99 shipping Nov 14 19:48:11 hrw, :-/ Nov 14 19:48:13 2007-11-14 18:55:13] df -h your big raid array for me :) Nov 14 19:48:13 [2007-11-14 19:40:53] Which one ? Nov 14 19:48:13 [2007-11-14 19:41:37] storage-pool 19T 2.5G 19T 1% /storage-pool Nov 14 19:48:13 [2007-11-14 19:41:40] That one ? Nov 14 19:48:16 oops sorry Nov 14 19:48:34 ScaredyCat, what IS THIS MONSTER??? Nov 14 19:48:50 thats a RAID6 filesystem, on 22 disks with 1 hot spare Nov 14 19:49:00 lol Nov 14 19:49:04 hi Nov 14 19:49:11 on the fly compression as well Nov 14 19:49:16 josch: so you say now, in 20 years you will be worried when your phone doesn't have that much memory. Nov 14 19:49:23 ypically get about 250MB/s write Nov 14 19:49:26 that data can be that valuable if if trusts it to a raid6... Nov 14 19:49:31 22T Nov 14 19:49:37 19T* Nov 14 19:49:38 ftw? Nov 14 19:49:52 yeah - raid6 makes sense there Nov 14 19:50:03 s/can/can't Nov 14 19:50:39 i found a bug in 0.93 (3811): Nov 14 19:50:47 2007-11-14 20:43:06.518 Transmission[641] *** -[NSSegmentedCell setSelected:forSegment:]: selector not recognized [self = 0x1cecc00] Nov 14 19:50:48 2007-11-14 20:43:06.535 Transmission[641] Exception raised during posting of notification. Ignored. exception: *** -[NSSegmentedCell setSelected:forSegment:]: selector not recognized [self = 0x1cecc00] Nov 14 19:50:48 2007-11-14 20:43:19.038 Transmission[641] *** -stringForObjectValue: only defined for abstract class. Define -[NSDateFormatter stringForObjectValue:]! Nov 14 19:50:49 2007-11-14 20:43:19.649 Transmission[641] *** -stringForObjectValue: only defined for abstract class. Define -[NSDateFormatter stringForObjectValue:]! Nov 14 19:50:49 2007-11-14 20:43:19.833 Transmission[641] *** -stringForObjectValue: only defined for abstract class. Define -[NSDateFormatter stringForObjectValue:]! Nov 14 19:50:52 2007-11-14 20:43:22.160 Transmission[641] *** -stringForObjectValue: only defined for abstract class. Define -[NSDateFormatter stringForObjectValue:]! Nov 14 19:50:55 2007-11-14 20:43:25.108 Transmission[641] *** -stringForObjectValue: only defined for abstract class. Define -[NSDateFormatter stringForObjectValue:]! Nov 14 19:50:57 !lart shreed Nov 14 19:50:58 2007-11-14 20:43:25.518 Transmission[641] *** -stringForObjectValue: only defined for abstract class. Define -[NSDateFormatter stringForObjectValue:]! Nov 14 19:50:59 * cdbot2 stabs shreed Nov 14 19:51:01 2007-11-14 20:43:26.584 Transmission[641] *** -stringForObjectValue: only defined for abstract class. Define -[NSDateFormatter stringForObjectValue:]! Nov 14 19:51:04 2007-11-14 20:43:29.153 Transmission[641] *** -stringForObjectValue: only defined for abstract class. Define -[NSDateFormatter stringForObjectValue:]! Nov 14 19:51:05 ScaredyCat: Did you see 17:19 /dev/mapper/big1 5.3T 5.3T 1.7G 100% /mnt/big1 Nov 14 19:51:07 2007-11-14 20:43:30.476 Transmission[641] *** -stringForObjectValue: only defined for abstract class. Define -[NSDateFormatter stringForObjectValue:]! Nov 14 19:51:10 shreed: i totally agree Nov 14 19:51:10 get that when trying to close the inspector window Nov 14 19:51:22 wrong window Nov 14 19:51:27 * CM hands shreed a pastebin.ca Nov 14 19:51:29 :) Nov 14 19:51:35 CM: compared to 19T ? Nov 14 19:51:43 roh: when and where can we buy new batteries Nov 14 19:51:51 :O Nov 14 19:51:59 is yours dead too Writchie? Nov 14 19:52:07 shreed: well said, I agree with all those thoughts you just posted. Nov 14 19:52:26 no, I have 3 but they will be dead before all too long Nov 14 19:52:29 roflmao! Nov 14 19:52:31 2007-11-14 19:49:03] how do you back that up? Nov 14 19:52:31 [2007-11-14 19:50:20] second identical box Nov 14 19:52:42 Hehe Nov 14 19:52:52 [2007-11-14 19:50:45] holy fuck Nov 14 19:53:02 ScaredyCat: Is that 19 TB array 100 % full, too? Nov 14 19:53:08 no Nov 14 19:53:18 Hmm, then there's a hole in that theory. Nov 14 19:53:53 [2007-11-14 19:51:35] we've got a 3rd oem box with 24 1TB drive in that we're testing as we Nov 14 19:54:05 * hhf423 hums to the music the Neo is playing Nov 14 19:54:19 roh: will we be able to buy batteries somewhere, either officially or not, that will work in the gta-02? Nov 14 19:54:33 roh: so that we can have several batteries Nov 14 19:54:34 I think I'll wait for 1.5 TB disks before doing my next upgrade. Nov 14 19:54:40 I has fewd!! Nov 14 19:54:43 bbiab Nov 14 19:54:53 edistar: developers do not need multiple batteries Nov 14 19:55:08 fewd? Nov 14 19:56:56 Is it the case then that the battery is only used to keep the USB power from roasting the PM chip? Nov 14 19:57:20 * mwester thought that we were actually expecting to use the GTA01 like, well, kinda like a phone someday? Nov 14 19:57:32 How foolish of me. Nov 14 19:57:53 hmm, the neo actually rings now if I call it. but it never stops ringin when I drop the outgoing call... I thought that bug was sorted... Nov 14 19:58:14 sounds irritating Nov 14 19:59:03 oh, i can make phone calls with my neo? *i should try that now* Nov 14 19:59:53 amazing thought, isn't it? Nov 14 20:00:15 lo and behold, the next thing might be that you can send text messages... Nov 14 20:00:25 err, no, that does not work yet Nov 14 20:01:10 it does Nov 14 20:01:15 there is just no gui for it :) Nov 14 20:01:33 unless you install SettingsGUI or course Nov 14 20:01:56 i got a text message via AT commands :D that was soooo cool Nov 14 20:05:04 sms sending is no problem with libgsmd-tool Nov 14 20:05:25 receiving also isn't Nov 14 20:05:53 someone should make some cool mockups for a sms gui Nov 14 20:06:32 i will have lots of time in a week Nov 14 20:06:35 borg_, I did Nov 14 20:06:35 i would make it Nov 14 20:06:39 josch: where? Nov 14 20:06:40 :) Nov 14 20:06:51 borg_, I'm currently writing an app that exactly does this Nov 14 20:06:57 ah ok Nov 14 20:07:05 it's python gtk Nov 14 20:07:08 is there a public repositorie or something? Nov 14 20:07:25 I'm helping Sup3rkiddo finishing his pygsmd gsmd binding Nov 14 20:07:36 borg_, no - it's far from being beta Nov 14 20:07:39 yes, i have seen the bindings Nov 14 20:07:44 they are looking great :) Nov 14 20:07:50 but it pygsmd works there is no problem to finish this app Nov 14 20:08:02 unfortunately sup3rkiddo wasn't online today Nov 14 20:08:19 borg_, the are a copy of libgsmd-tool Nov 14 20:09:44 borg_, here is a screenshot of the dialer: http://rabenfrost.net/openmoko/pyPhone_Dialer.png Nov 14 20:10:07 the third icon on the bottom is the sms part of the app Nov 14 20:10:20 ok :) Nov 14 20:11:33 as I said the only thing we need to complete is, is a complete pygsmd Nov 14 20:11:41 everybody is invited to help :-) Nov 14 20:15:19 @josch: could you make the numbers a bit bigger? Nov 14 20:16:50 shreed, changing anything in the gui is no problem - it uses glade and changing such things is only a few clicks away but I have to concentrate on getting pygsmd to work for now Nov 14 20:16:55 gui is no problem Nov 14 20:17:13 shreed, the number is so small because I wanted to use gtk relative fonts Nov 14 20:17:23 and the size actually is xx-large Nov 14 20:24:41 when i try to crosscompile "the wrong way" as said in the wiki "building hello word..." with http://pastebin.ca/773832 i get an error "cant find gtk..." why? Nov 14 20:30:56 roh: this is the USB Battery Charging Spec http://www.usb.org/developers/devclass_docs/batt_charging_1_0.zip Nov 14 20:31:37 roh: last I checked the neo doesn't meet the USB standby requirement, but perhaps this is fixed in later kernels Nov 14 20:35:20 roh: mini USB is also officially deprecated in favor of micro USB which is new industry standard for mobile handssets Nov 14 20:36:17 other than physical differences, what's different between micro and mini? Nov 14 20:38:56 Stephmw: just physical, always 5 pins, and keyed for A/B Nov 14 20:39:16 Writchie: pfah. so really no reason for the change other than to shift inventory Nov 14 20:43:55 Stephmw: there is a worldwide movement to standardize and eliminate all kinds of different chargers for ecological reasons. Nov 14 20:44:33 Writchie: understandable... so why a new standard rather than push one of the existing ones? Nov 14 20:44:48 existing plug is too big for narrow form factors Nov 14 20:45:18 I don't see that kind of justification really changing... it'll be the same issue in 5 years Nov 14 20:45:25 nokia, moto, SE, samsung, LG are already agreed on new standard. Nov 14 20:46:30 I've got a poweroff glitch on my moko, but I don't see it mentioned anywhere on the wiki Nov 14 20:46:44 does this happen with everyone's where it flashes a white screen after 'poweroff' ? Nov 14 20:47:09 well with 1.5 amps for charging this should last a long while. Nov 14 20:48:02 it will also be mandated in China and propable EC as well eventually. Nov 14 20:48:27 of course with ROHS and lack of lead devices probably won't last 5 years anyway. Nov 14 20:48:55 my point was that if the core justification was that mini is too big... micro will eventually have the same problem Nov 14 20:52:34 Stephmw: ack Nov 14 21:01:35 Writchie mini-usb is not completely deprecated. you just cannot get usb-otg certification anymore (we are not otg anyways and gta02 will also not be) Nov 14 21:01:35 * mwester envisions the day when we'll simply pop our devices into the nearest microwave oven for a few seconds to recharge the battery... no connector required. Nov 14 21:02:45 Well - assorted battery technologies now support 10C+ charging - for 6 min or so charge times. Nov 14 21:04:01 though that would imply 50W or so chargers for a mobile phone Nov 14 21:04:45 SpeedEvil: with cooling fans! Nov 14 21:07:04 SpeedEvil: Such currents would make me afraid of unwanted fireworks set off in my house Nov 14 21:07:29 openmoko randomizes the hardware address of the usb net device Nov 14 21:07:40 hachi: yes. Nov 14 21:07:55 how can I make my computer assign it a consisten network device name then? Nov 14 21:08:04 OS? Nov 14 21:08:11 linux debian Nov 14 21:08:16 udev is what i'm wondering Nov 14 21:08:22 udev rules Nov 14 21:08:28 I'm crawling /sys/class/net/usb0 and I don't see anything unique Nov 14 21:08:52 the only marker I see is the mac address, everything else is arbitrary Nov 14 21:10:08 do you have an example udev rule? Nov 14 21:10:18 you can't use udevinfo on a network device Nov 14 21:10:28 so I'm crawling /sys manually and coming up empty Nov 14 21:10:51 lsusb says what? Nov 14 21:11:05 lsusb doesn't matter, I need something that is in /sys Nov 14 21:12:19 well... I now drew the charging circuit I successfully use in inkscape - does anyone want to santize it to put it in the wiki? Nov 14 21:12:58 surprise surprise, lsusb shows only one unique marker on the moko device Nov 14 21:13:01 the mac address Nov 14 21:30:35 is the mokomakefile now working on ubuntu gutsy Nov 14 21:39:43 Ita? Nov 14 21:41:43 is obex for usb/bluetooth already supported? Nov 14 21:42:08 shreed: obex for BT is supported Nov 14 21:42:16 it does not matter how bt is connected Nov 14 21:44:15 hachi: ATTRS{modalias}=="usb:v1457p5122d0212dc02dsc00dp00ic02isc06ip00" Nov 14 21:44:26 hachi: this means 'I am neo1973' Nov 14 21:44:40 ATTRS{idVendor}=="1457" Nov 14 21:44:40 ATTRS{idProduct}=="5122" Nov 14 21:44:43 also this Nov 14 21:45:40 hachi: 'udevinfo -a -p /sys/class/net/usb0' gives lot of info Nov 14 21:45:56 but none of those identify this neo Nov 14 21:46:23 info which I gave was from neo connected Nov 14 21:46:37 I thought usb devices were supposed to have serial numbers or something, so you can uniquely identify them no matter where they go on a bus Nov 14 21:46:49 yes, I have that info in my tree Nov 14 21:47:02 but it's device class/subclass sorta specific Nov 14 21:47:07 there's no marker for /this/ neo Nov 14 21:47:12 hachi: not all devices gives serial Nov 14 21:47:18 hachi: you have more then one neo? Nov 14 21:47:46 no, but when the GTA02 comes out I will Nov 14 21:48:05 gta02 will probably use other usb id Nov 14 21:49:55 have anyone here played X-Moto? Nov 14 21:52:17 any input on my observed powerdown issue? Nov 14 21:55:50 Hello, sorry for bringing up "forbidden" topic, but I just want to be sure -- when was GTA02's december release date announced? Few weeks ago I read post saying something about november... Nov 14 21:57:02 mmp: Anything in the wiki or on this channel is speculation. Someone updated something based on conclusions drawn from someone else saying something on the channel that they may or perhaps may not really have knowlege of. Nov 14 21:58:20 Quite frankly, if FIC/Openmoko *really* knows right now when the device will actually ship, I would be surprised. Nov 14 22:00:08 mwester, well I know exactly when. Nov 14 22:00:24 mwester, the answer is: "when it's ready" :) Nov 14 22:00:47 or before if history is any clue Nov 14 22:01:03 phhhttttt! :-D Nov 14 22:01:08 mwester: I was referring to http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2007-October/011211.html Nov 14 22:01:23 bought a moto slvr to tide me over till this thing is able to handle SMS and phonecalls Nov 14 22:01:28 and longer battery live Nov 14 22:01:29 I know it doesn't say anything precisely, I was just curious whether there was some update I missed... Nov 14 22:01:41 it should be noted that I loathe my slvr Nov 14 22:02:50 mmp: just to give you an idea, since that email FIC/euromoko^Hopenmoko has discovered (you won't believe this, but it's true) that the GTA02, along with the GTA01, is actually NOT a quad-band device, but a tri-band european device. That should give an idea of how much work is still left to do, and the sort of unknowns being dealt with... Nov 14 22:03:48 hachi: I hope you're in Europe. Nov 14 22:04:06 nope, butI have a euro slvr too Nov 14 22:04:13 I hate the interface :) Nov 14 22:04:17 my coverage is fine Nov 14 22:04:31 ah, ok. one of those folks who manages to stay close to home, then. Nov 14 22:04:41 * mwester travels for business rather too much. Nov 14 22:04:50 they don't send me anywhere Nov 14 22:05:14 mwester: ahh, I forgot... Anyway, if tri-band design is already almost complete (and I'm from Europe), they theoretically could do november release :) Nov 14 22:05:33 Someone is trying to send me to Kansas City for a week in December. Just where I want to go, in December. Groan. Nov 14 22:06:15 hi! I have problems with sound in openmoko - it works while phoning but doesn't on clicks and when playing videos Nov 14 22:06:25 And Nebraska last week. So 850 is rather a requirement for me, I'm afraid. :( Nov 14 22:06:27 /etc/init.d/pulseaudio restart doesn't solce it Nov 14 22:08:32 <_diego_away> last news talk about late december, as date relase Nov 14 22:08:49 _diego_away: what is the source? Nov 14 22:09:22 mwester: well, I would personally like to have quad-band phone, even though I'm in 900/1800 country... . Nov 14 22:09:59 I have no sound even after a reboot - what's wrong? my image is from about a week ago Nov 14 22:10:05 But on the other hand, few other people and me have waited for GTA01 so long that we actually decided to wait few months more for GTA02... Nov 14 22:10:50 uhm, i suppose this isnt exactly the right place to ask this, but could someone good with python/gtk stuff help me with something (I suppose there are a few of you here ;)) Nov 14 22:11:41 flexd, hi! your problem could be mine in the future - just ask! Nov 14 22:11:48 josch: i suppose so :P Nov 14 22:11:54 I'm making the frontend for my bot i was talking about Nov 14 22:12:07 and i've got a socket setup on the bot that gives out the log like i want it, so only the gui part left Nov 14 22:12:28 and i was wondering if there's a clever way i can both connect to the socket and receive data *and* have the dialog up at once Nov 14 22:12:59 probably with threads but i'm not sure how i get receiving part to update the window if you understand what i mean Nov 14 22:13:47 flexd, well that is exactly what I want to do ^^ Nov 14 22:14:08 we should work together then Nov 14 22:14:23 I'm not sure if i should even plan to think about the phone running twisted Nov 14 22:14:31 <_diego_away> flexd: if it can help, look at: http://lifobot.cvs.sourceforge.net/lifobot/guiclient/ Nov 14 22:14:35 flexd, have a look here: http://www.gtk.org/tutorial1.2/gtk_tut-17.html Nov 14 22:15:14 flexd, this is in c but gdk_input_add lets you add an event handler when something is updated on the file descriptor/socket Nov 14 22:15:28 i think it might be a bit resource hogging to be on a tiny phone, but if not i can make it pretty easy Nov 14 22:15:36 josch: well that's just awsome if it works in python too Nov 14 22:16:03 flexd, I googled for it but without luck Nov 14 22:16:16 josch: there's a python binding for it Nov 14 22:16:20 python-gdkinput 1.0 Nov 14 22:16:29 this would be ideal as the gtk loop will hanlde socket events Nov 14 22:16:40 excellent Nov 14 22:17:18 now someone has to compile it for armv4t ^^ Nov 14 22:19:36 flexd, well... we could ask mickeyl as he is also very interested in building python apps for openmoko and suggested exactly this approach to me Nov 14 22:19:46 hmm Nov 14 22:19:54 well my "server" part is using twisted Nov 14 22:20:03 but it's just gonna be a basic socket anyway, so no biggie to make Nov 14 22:21:09 But it should be nice :D Nov 14 22:22:51 flexd, python-gdkinput seems to be exactly what I need :-/ Nov 14 22:24:59 i have to mock your ability to google btw, it was the top hit :p Nov 14 22:28:11 well... how do I reactivate my sound? Nov 14 22:28:59 josch: Can you "ipkg upgrade" with no problems? Nov 14 22:29:37 give me a sec - didn't update for some while Nov 14 22:31:30 josch: Okay. It's just that I've had to give ipkg the flag -force-overwrite with some of the packages, or else something would upgrade, and maybe that could brake something.. Nov 14 22:31:47 *not upgrade Nov 14 22:34:44 when will the qvga patch that is in the kernel by mwester be in the mainline kernel? Nov 14 22:39:56 josch: can you compile that python-gdkinput? Nov 14 22:40:06 im missing tons of stuff :/ Nov 14 22:40:12 flexd, don't know how Nov 14 22:40:25 for normal linux im thinking now Nov 14 22:40:28 someone from openembedded has to add it Nov 14 22:40:42 for my host I didn't try yet Nov 14 22:41:15 well do that first, if we can get it working on our machines there will only be minor difficulities to get it on om i think :) (compling stuff) Nov 14 22:46:45 flexd, do sudo apt-get install libgtk-dev swig Nov 14 22:49:01 hello Nov 14 22:49:01 i cant go to the internet with my neo over my pc as gateway. I can only ping my pc (192.168.0.200/192.168.2.22) but not my router (192.168.2.1). my default route is: "default 192.168.0.200 0.0.0.0 UG 0 0 0 usb0" Nov 14 22:49:22 did you setup routing stuff on your host machine? Nov 14 22:49:35 fuck im stupid Nov 14 22:50:57 hmm... i try it but it dont works Nov 14 22:50:57 (sudo route add -host 192.168.0.202/32 dev usb0) Nov 14 22:51:10 (like the wiki page) Nov 14 22:58:54 hi. Today your openmoko-today is working on boot? Nov 14 22:58:58 ;-) Nov 14 23:34:20 who can I ask to get a python binding into openembedded? Nov 14 23:35:15 josch: we need to get it compiled for a normal distro first.. :/ Nov 14 23:35:18 i think Nov 14 23:35:23 to see if it even works Nov 14 23:35:41 josch: go to bugs.openembedded.org and attach your bb-file :) Nov 14 23:35:46 josch: or ask for help creating one Nov 14 23:36:14 flexd, I'm nearly on to accomplish this Nov 14 23:36:28 what's missing? Nov 14 23:36:57 well - I'm searching for the package containing pygtk/pygtk.h Nov 14 23:37:19 well I think I will just ignore the configure script and write my own Nov 14 23:38:50 let me know if you do :d Nov 15 00:07:56 Why is the ogg support so bad in the openmoko-mediaplayer? And so good with ogg123? Nov 15 00:08:18 Ebbe, ask abraxa__ Nov 15 00:09:38 Ebbe: libtremor decodes ogg to a sample format that gstreamer needs to convert first - that however costs so much performance that ogg is unusable, unfortunately Nov 15 00:09:41 Oh josch, what do you use to play video? Nov 15 00:09:42 That will be fixed, however. Nov 15 00:10:25 abraxa__: Good to hear Nov 15 00:11:11 Ebbe: You can use mplayer to playback video - in the long run, the media player will do that for you Nov 15 00:11:18 Ebbe, I play videos with mplayer Nov 15 00:13:17 Thanks. Seems like I should have ScaredyCat's repositories after all ;) Nov 15 00:37:17 Has anyone used the Neo with MacOS X Leopard? The USB ethernet interface isn't showing up for me (although it worked under 10.3) Nov 15 00:53:37 flexd, ping Nov 15 01:49:22 turns out android SDK ships some binaries that are closed-source and there's no plan to open-source them Nov 15 01:49:32 hahahaha Nov 15 01:49:36 gnaaaaaazt! :-D Nov 15 01:50:03 http://www.betaversion.org/~stefano/linotype/news/110/ Nov 15 01:51:38 informative +5 Nov 15 02:29:36 hello Nov 15 02:30:01 where is the configuration file for the background image? Nov 15 02:30:57 hello. please is important Nov 15 02:54:55 penis **** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Nov 15 02:59:57 2007