**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Nov 20 02:59:57 2007 Nov 20 03:03:44 ERROR: The following packages conflict with openmoko-session2: Nov 20 03:03:44 matchbox-common Nov 20 03:03:48 has this not been resolved? Nov 20 03:04:03 i just had to flash my device due to trying to solve this myself and rendering my device lame Nov 20 03:06:53 well, investigate _why_ exactly conflict. Usually some --force-* option of ipkg will be of help once you know what you are doing ;) Nov 20 03:07:33 i just flashed to the lastest "official" image Nov 20 03:07:45 and now have done ipkg update && ipkg upgrade.. this is what i get Nov 20 03:08:01 try ipkg remove matchbox-common Nov 20 03:09:11 which needs a -recursive Nov 20 03:09:23 don't do that Nov 20 03:09:31 which pulls out tons of other stuff.. then i reinstall what it pulled and still have the conflict.. and then nothing works Nov 20 03:09:41 hehe Nov 20 03:10:05 i'm booting it back up again, had to switch sim cards Nov 20 03:10:08 you might try forcing the install of openmoko-session2 and pray Nov 20 03:11:58 hmm damnit. the ipkg upgrade screwed the device again Nov 20 03:12:20 without removing anything Nov 20 03:13:21 uh-oh. I'm doing an `ipkg upgrade` right now. Nov 20 03:13:32 well.. expect it to go boom Nov 20 03:13:38 * Kero does not want to hear what daMaestro is saying :/ Nov 20 03:13:48 please, let me know if you don't get the same conflicts Nov 20 03:14:02 and then the next time you reboot ... the device just sits at the please wait.. screen Nov 20 03:14:31 http://f3dora.org/paste/563 Nov 20 03:14:37 that would be because X doesn't start due to fucked up session scripts (probably) Nov 20 03:14:56 i would expect so, yes Nov 20 03:15:04 * Kero knows that problem. will check if psplash is gone, so I can at least see what fails :P Nov 20 03:15:08 CoreDump, so what can i try to fix the above issue? Nov 20 03:15:22 don't upgrade after flashing... Nov 20 03:15:36 or use the debug-board and unbork it via console Nov 20 03:15:56 installing libgsmd, new packge? Nov 20 03:16:16 libjana? Nov 20 03:17:56 daMaestro: same conflict. why does ipkg not see that *before* it starts downloading and installing? Nov 20 03:18:03 Kero, Nov 20 03:18:05 lol Nov 20 03:18:19 Kero, ipkg remove matchbox-common && ipkg upgrade Nov 20 03:18:26 Kero, i'm rebooting now to see if that actually fixes it Nov 20 03:18:31 =) it hasn't touched anything yet when it bails Nov 20 03:18:40 CoreDump, yes. yes it has Nov 20 03:18:52 it shouldn't heh Nov 20 03:18:55 +1 Nov 20 03:19:01 there should be a transaction test first Nov 20 03:19:08 but that is why there is -test (or whatever) Nov 20 03:19:22 Kero, well... that sure doesn't fix it Nov 20 03:20:20 http://f3dora.org/paste/564 is the actual conflict Nov 20 03:21:05 right Nov 20 03:21:28 * daMaestro looks forward to the day when we have stable repos && flashes rootfs and kernel Nov 20 03:22:22 * Kero still wonders why there is ipkg and not just atptitude :) Nov 20 03:22:26 tell me about it. My first flash ever resulted in a dead uboot =D Nov 20 03:23:40 resulting of my first use of TJAG ever Nov 20 03:23:48 *JTAG Nov 20 03:32:09 libjana-ecal0 is an empty ipkg Nov 20 03:32:26 and matchbox-session (maybe other packages?) need its shared lib Nov 20 03:35:34 ok, it's not empty, but `ipkg files` says it's empty (which is scary) Nov 20 03:36:27 but a re-install of libjana-ecal0 makes matchbox-session now complain about libjana-gtk Nov 20 03:36:37 so the file *was* not there. Nov 20 04:10:50 fragile... can start X, dbus session, matchbox wm, panel and session by hand Nov 20 04:10:56 (no applets, yet) Nov 20 04:11:10 but xserver-nodm fails utterly Nov 20 04:11:35 03tick * r3447 10/trunk/src/target/gsm/ (include/gsmd/atcmd.h src/gsmd/atcmd.c src/gsmd/usock.c): [gsmd] Adding atcmd_terminate_matching (remove from the queues any command whose .ctx matches given)(Andrzej Zaborowski) Nov 20 04:12:56 03tick * r3448 10/trunk/src/target/gsm/src/util/ (libgsmd-tool.c shell.c shell.h): [gsmd] Adding waiting mode for libgsmd-tool shell. (Andrzej Zaborowski) Nov 20 04:17:12 is neod still supposed to run/exist? Nov 20 04:18:34 gsmd replacement worked, tho. can connect to a network. Nov 20 04:19:13 which is good. Now I know I should buy a local SIM from either Cingular or T-Mobile, since those are available here :) Nov 20 04:28:53 xserver-nodm plus DBUS_SESSION=unix:* DISPLAY=:* matchbox-session gets me there, almost. Nov 20 04:29:55 ho.... timeout? now I have two of everything... Nov 20 04:46:13 om nom nom nom nom nom Nov 20 04:47:01 Kero: I never figured out what it was, but I had a similar problem to you Nov 20 04:47:10 I reflashed and it went away Nov 20 04:47:27 this was like 48 hours ago Nov 20 04:56:27 * CM yawns Nov 20 04:57:34 * ljp yawns Nov 20 04:57:35 * BBishop stretches Nov 20 04:58:33 * CoreDump goes ti Nov 20 04:58:40 *to sleep Nov 20 04:58:43 I accdently put the alarm 1h too early.. And was too tired to realise it Nov 20 05:00:40 * mwester is still enjoying his evening Nov 20 05:01:06 mwester: What's your time now? Nov 20 05:01:24 23:01 Nov 20 05:01:35 06.01 here Nov 20 05:02:30 15:02 Nov 20 05:02:32 07:01 here Nov 20 05:03:02 so cm .. the time is right .. WAKE UP ! :)) Nov 20 05:04:54 BBishop: I'm having breakfast :-) Nov 20 05:04:59 I'm not :| Nov 20 05:05:32 I wish I had someone to wake up everymorning for me and have breakfast done before I wake up Nov 20 05:05:43 can the fic 1973 do that ? :D Nov 20 05:06:33 BBishop: I'm moving in with my gf soon and I have high hopes for that.. ;) Nov 20 05:06:54 >:P Nov 20 05:07:03 can I move in too ? :D Nov 20 05:07:11 Hehe Nov 20 05:07:19 but .. nevermind .. I bet she'll want you to wake up and make her breakfast Nov 20 05:07:27 Not in 38 sqm Nov 20 05:07:27 hmm .. and I think I will too Nov 20 05:07:30 Hehe Nov 20 05:07:47 so .. from now on .. you wake up 1 hour earlier for both of us and make breakfast ! Nov 20 05:09:50 * BBishop stretches again .. just waiting for the clothes to come dress him .. Nov 20 05:10:35 ... ok .. add these two to the feature request on fic: COOK && DRESS Nov 20 05:11:51 oh... its target market is geeks with no girlfriend? ;-) Nov 20 05:12:05 cjb_ie: Damn you're up early Nov 20 05:12:13 CM: nope, late Nov 20 05:12:17 Hehe Nov 20 05:12:19 Ok Nov 20 05:13:03 CM: i discovered recently that all-nighters are much, much easier if you go home for an hour to take a shower Nov 20 05:13:25 and about three times as productive Nov 20 05:13:47 right... back to work Nov 20 05:13:55 cjb_ie: Heh, cool. Have fun Nov 20 05:14:11 what if I'm already a all-nighter .. but at home ! Nov 20 05:14:40 should I go at the office for an hour and do some work and then come home to be lazy again ? :D Nov 20 05:14:55 I'm sure I could be lazy more back at home after one hour of work .. Nov 20 05:15:02 good ideea cjb_ie ! :)) will do try :) Nov 20 05:45:19 mickey|ICE1092: Good morning :) Nov 20 05:45:33 aw, bbishop left before i could thwap him Nov 20 05:46:09 Hehe Nov 20 05:46:39 morning folks Nov 20 05:46:52 hi CM Nov 20 05:47:09 Greetings O Wise One. Nov 20 05:47:33 mwester: Hehe, I agree that's a more proper phrase to use ;) Nov 20 05:48:08 heh Nov 20 05:49:10 LaF0rge: wake up and prepare breakfast. I'll be there in ~4 hours ;) Nov 20 05:49:26 Hehe, that' Nov 20 05:49:32 s quite some breakfast Nov 20 05:50:41 i sincerely hope so, i'm hungry Nov 20 05:51:06 Any special agenda for today? Nov 20 05:51:07 * mickey|ICE1092 wonders whether to write some announcement over the forthcoming phoneserver cooperation or wait until it's actually done Nov 20 05:51:26 mickey|ICE1092: We like knowing about future plans ;) Nov 20 05:51:26 oh, nothing special Nov 20 05:51:36 the german OM guys meet at LaF0rge's place to discuss recent stuff Nov 20 05:51:56 it's more like meeting of some friends than anything official Nov 20 05:52:05 Ok, sounds even better :) Nov 20 05:52:46 Btw, I guess you have thesis work before getting your diplomas in germany too? Nov 20 05:53:09 * mwester imagines a cloaked figure in the darkness, with collar drawn up and hat pulled low, entering doorway, tapping out secret knock, and murmering secret password "openmoko" to gain entrance... Nov 20 05:53:14 yep, need to write a diploma thesis, roughly 6 months to 12 months of work Nov 20 05:53:25 Ok, same here. Nov 20 05:53:34 mwester: haha, something along that... the secret dungeon of doom Nov 20 05:53:42 I put up a page for openmoko related ones in the wiki Nov 20 05:53:55 A company in sweden had 8 proposals :) Nov 20 05:54:10 But I haven't found any more ones Nov 20 05:55:10 Just hope people finds it and add more :) Nov 20 05:55:44 (phoneserver) yesterday i met with the GPE Phone guys and we agreed on a phone server and some device manager dbus stuff to co-work Nov 20 05:55:49 i should probably blog about it w/ some more details Nov 20 05:55:50 when i'm back in FRA Nov 20 05:55:59 Sounds good Nov 20 05:58:29 cool Nov 20 05:59:31 03tick * r3449 10/trunk/src/target/gsm/ (9 files in 5 dirs): [gsmd] New feature for power on/off GSM modem (Sean Chiang) Nov 20 06:00:32 ~praise tick Nov 20 06:00:33 All hail tick! Nov 20 06:01:03 * CM hails tick too Nov 20 06:01:25 Works well for me to call with a image from sunday eve Nov 20 06:02:02 yeah, gsmd gained a lot of stability recently Nov 20 06:02:35 It wasn't until the src_rev was bumped I got it Nov 20 06:03:01 i will continue pushing and pestering to get the moko5 firmware out Nov 20 06:03:51 yeah, i'm always using autorev while there's so much development goin gon Nov 20 06:03:56 Just don't wear out.. Banging your head against the wall get's tiresome after a while ;) Nov 20 06:04:04 heh, right Nov 20 06:04:45 i had my share of fights w/ our new engineering manager recently Nov 20 06:05:06 Hmm.. I'd like to be somewhere inbetween autorev and locked, to try new upgrades. It's like the unstable gentoo I run Nov 20 06:05:32 "stabilizing" is a tiresome thing Nov 20 06:06:51 * CM is just hoping that there's no more serious hw bugs in GTA02 Nov 20 06:07:32 ya, me too Nov 20 06:07:52 gta02 is crucial to OM staying in business Nov 20 06:08:03 *nod* Nov 20 06:13:47 hey mickey|ICE1092 Nov 20 06:13:50 03tick * r3450 10/trunk/src/target/gsm/src/libgsmd/libgsmd_modem.c: [gsmd] sorry forget to add the new file (Sean Chiang) Nov 20 06:15:04 mickey|ICE1092: does Tick (the guy maintaining gsmd) have OE commit privs to be able to update the srcrev when he checks in and tests a new patch in the OM svn? Nov 20 06:17:07 rwhitby: no Nov 20 06:17:40 mickey|ICE1092: and he Nov 20 06:17:46 is not on IRC? Nov 20 06:18:24 (so that someone can ask him whether the newly checked in rev should be pushed out to OE sane-srcrevs) Nov 20 06:18:25 Would be nice if more of them were :) Nov 20 06:20:13 How to set tool tip in Gtk+ Nov 20 06:21:48 atul: I don't know, but http://library.gnome.org/devel/gtk/2.12/GtkTooltip.html might help Nov 20 06:25:07 ya Nov 20 06:25:07 we encourage them once and then Nov 20 06:25:12 at least CIA reporting works again Nov 20 06:25:16 eventually one in Taipei will get OE commit access and bump revisions once tested Nov 20 06:25:22 robtaylor: all that dbus glue code in HAL is obnoxious. It could've been so simply if it would have not been written in C :/ Nov 20 06:29:57 tick: Welcome :) Nov 20 06:30:09 CM: hi Nov 20 06:31:11 abraxa__: Good morning Nov 20 06:31:22 * CM is a welcoming bot today Nov 20 06:31:58 s/bot/bork/ Nov 20 06:32:02 ~botsnack Nov 20 06:32:03 thanks, mwester-n Nov 20 06:32:17 thanks, mwester-n :P Nov 20 06:32:23 mwester: hi Nov 20 06:32:27 ;) Nov 20 06:32:46 hello Nov 20 06:33:38 * CM wonders if the gsm modem is properly shut down now when the neo is turned off? Nov 20 06:34:16 mwester-n: With current OE kernel we noticed that it will make GSM firmware unable to sleep Nov 20 06:35:09 CM: If you send AT@POFF before shutting down neo, the GSM modem will turn off Nov 20 06:35:18 Ok :) Nov 20 06:39:54 CM, it works Nov 20 06:40:11 atul: Cool. What app are you working on? :) Nov 20 06:40:28 CM, AT Commands for neo1973 Nov 20 06:40:53 aha. Add an AT@POFF for me ;) Nov 20 06:41:33 CM, ok you have to join as developer here http://projects.openmoko.org/projects/atmycommand/ Nov 20 06:41:55 ATmycommand :-) Nov 20 06:42:00 CM, we upload code also there have a look on it Nov 20 06:42:07 Nice Nov 20 06:42:10 cjb_ie, yes Nov 20 06:42:12 cjb_ie: I hope you are! Nov 20 06:42:17 :P Nov 20 06:42:23 CM: what would your girlfriend say... Nov 20 06:43:08 cjb_ie: I think she comes with that program installed already.. :-/ Nov 20 07:09:44 re Nov 20 07:19:27 \o Nov 20 07:22:45 Yay me Nov 20 07:22:51 convinced a friend of mine to buy a neo too \o/ Nov 20 07:41:19 moin Nov 20 08:33:14 rastern800: underway? Nov 20 08:33:57 Does any one know how to set tooltip on to tree view Nov 20 08:40:14 mickey + ICE1092 + raster + n800 = ?? Nov 20 08:41:08 how to set tooltip for tree view Nov 20 08:44:10 hm Nov 20 08:44:11 damnit Nov 20 08:44:15 my boss ruins my msn :() Nov 20 08:44:45 i had my pidgin away message as "pretending to work, coding" Nov 20 08:44:56 and i have my boss on msn and she's like... WHAT? Nov 20 08:45:00 :( Nov 20 08:46:41 Just wait until she starts ircing too. Nov 20 08:52:01 that will never happen Nov 20 08:52:41 1. I control the firewall, she has no chance. 2. I was coding something work-related, so she didnt get so mad when i told her what i was making Nov 20 08:55:51 3. I'l be getting TWO neos soon, my awsome phone will simply conquer the office and claim leadership of the firm! Nov 20 08:55:54 brb Nov 20 08:55:56 (yeah right!) Nov 20 09:04:01 * CM has "Pretending to work" as his default IM busy message Nov 20 09:04:05 03tick * r3451 10/trunk/src/target/gsm/src/gsmd/vendor_ti.c: [gsmd] slightly changed the cpmb callback because rc could be used uninitialised, and avoids using strtok() on a constant string (Andrzej Zaborowski) Nov 20 09:04:44 ~praise tick Nov 20 09:04:45 All hail tick! Nov 20 09:04:59 hi ^^ Nov 20 09:05:21 This commit remove some little bugs reported my andrew Nov 20 09:05:24 mtn: help required for 3-way merge <= what so I do with this nasty error? Nov 20 09:05:37 strtok shall not be used Nov 20 09:05:45 and rc may not be initialed. Nov 20 09:06:04 josch: Hmm... Have you made changes to your tree? Nov 20 09:06:27 do not think so - can I revert them somehow? Nov 20 09:06:37 josch: If not, I think you can just "pull". Not sure though, still not understanding monotone Nov 20 09:07:53 tick: Since r3434 gsmd finally seems to work ok for me. At least enough to call and answer. Nice to see it's being improved :) Nov 20 09:08:37 josch: Also, ask the guys in #oe, they know :) Nov 20 09:08:45 will try that Nov 20 09:08:52 CM: thanks :-) I am glad to it works. Nov 20 09:09:20 good morning Nov 20 09:16:45 tick: thanks for applying Nov 20 09:17:07 ^^ your welcome Nov 20 09:17:39 balrog-kun: And his commits even show up in the CIA messages ;) Nov 20 09:18:14 * CM takes a coffee break Nov 20 09:18:29 mine do too :( sometimes Nov 20 10:01:16 can anyone halp me with my latest build error? Nov 20 10:01:17 http://celpaste.morb-design.com/pastebin.php?show=m744a146b Nov 20 10:02:37 josch: looks like a conf issue, do you have MACHINE set correctly Nov 20 10:03:16 MACHINE = "fic-gta01" <= never edited this Nov 20 10:04:02 the wiki (http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Dfu-util) mentions u-boot's Runtime Mode and DFU Mode - how do i change from one to the other? Nov 20 10:05:55 emdete: it's documented in the DFU specification i believe Nov 20 10:06:23 there should be a link to the specs on the wiki Nov 20 10:15:22 okay - I just had to do clean package linux-openmoko Nov 20 10:19:51 good morning Nov 20 10:20:43 morning \o Nov 20 10:20:46 hi :) Nov 20 10:41:10 i tried to exchange the u-boot splash with `dfu-util -a 4 ...` using a gzipped out from openmoko/developers/werner/splash-jtag/img.pl . this looks very promising but only the top-half of the image is shown. the rest is garbage & black. does someone know why? Nov 20 10:44:07 emdete: You have to set the size somewhere.. Can't remember the details Nov 20 10:45:11 emdete: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Splash_screen#Modifying_the_size_of_the_compressed_splash_image Nov 20 10:45:18 mickey_away: well, thats just what it looks like to code to libdbus.. Nov 20 10:45:56 mickey_away: i wouldn't worry too much, it'll all go away sooner or later Nov 20 10:46:11 Go away? :) Nov 20 10:46:18 when is the Realesa date ? Nov 20 10:46:32 hub_: Of the GTA02 phone? Nov 20 10:46:39 yes ?! Nov 20 10:46:53 Nothing official said yet, but it doesn't look like it's December Nov 20 10:47:07 end or midle ? Nov 20 10:47:13 My guess is January Nov 20 10:47:19 hmm... Nov 20 10:47:31 and the ~ Price Nov 20 10:47:44 ? Nov 20 10:47:54 Someone said 500 phones were about to be produced, but I haven't seen any confirmation Nov 20 10:47:57 450 USD Nov 20 10:48:03 ok Nov 20 10:48:15 but he haves WIfi or ? Nov 20 10:48:16 CM: DeviceKit plans Nov 20 10:48:31 robtaylor: Ok, just curious. Thanks Nov 20 10:48:50 CM: though i'm still waiting for davidz to finish on policy kit before i start hacking away on those Nov 20 10:48:55 hub_: Yes, GTA02 have wifi, faster processor, more flash and gpu Nov 20 10:49:16 * robtaylor hopes someone will send him a GTA02.. Nov 20 10:49:27 * CM hopes that too Nov 20 10:49:38 * buz_ hopes for a pricedrop Nov 20 10:49:54 robtaylor: That they send it to you that is, I'm not productive enough. ;) Nov 20 10:50:00 When is the GTA 03 Realese after 02 ? 1 jear after or wath ? Nov 20 10:50:05 other smartphones have become dirt cheap lately Nov 20 10:50:08 CM: heh :) Nov 20 10:50:15 hub_: i dont believe anyone really knows that Nov 20 10:50:18 hub_: Nothing known about any GTA03 yet Nov 20 10:50:21 ok Nov 20 10:50:35 i'm not even sure anyone knows when GTA02 release will be Nov 20 10:50:38 * dottedmag hopes he will be able to buy gta02 Nov 20 10:50:53 damn customs :-/ Nov 20 10:51:34 Is this a better CPU with 1 watt > x86-Prozessor "Eden ULV" with 1 Watt. Why Samsung ? Nov 20 10:51:51 and 500 Mhz Nov 20 10:52:00 and x86 Nov 20 10:52:34 you want a 1watt cpu in a phone? Nov 20 10:52:40 that's gonna last very long Nov 20 10:52:40 yes Nov 20 10:52:57 longer life Nov 20 10:53:02 not really Nov 20 10:53:02 batery i mean Nov 20 10:53:05 why ? Nov 20 10:53:11 the samsung cpu uses much less than 1 watt Nov 20 10:53:17 really ? Nov 20 10:53:23 under 1 watt ? Nov 20 10:53:28 obviously, otherwise people wouldnt use it Nov 20 10:53:39 hmmm :-/ Nov 20 10:53:52 and as opposed to X86, arm can actually do powersaving properly Nov 20 10:54:04 right. Nov 20 10:54:17 the eden ulv would be good for a really small notebook, but not a phone Nov 20 10:54:52 hub_: the samsung cpu draws 50-335mW depending on speed Nov 20 10:55:04 lol, ok Nov 20 10:55:07 That's in normal mode Nov 20 10:55:19 40mW in slow :) Nov 20 10:55:38 and practically nothing at all in standby Nov 20 10:55:53 ok is realy >m yeah Nov 20 10:56:14 Says 0.2mW (@2V) in standby Nov 20 10:56:15 50watt in a phone would turn in into a soldering iron Nov 20 10:56:23 i think they cheat Nov 20 10:56:31 memory quite likely needs more than that Nov 20 10:56:48 *nod* Nov 20 10:56:49 and the memory controller will have to refresh memory Nov 20 10:57:21 and wath is the Graphik chip name ? Nov 20 10:57:48 hub_: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973_GTA02_Hardware Nov 20 10:58:49 he have MPEG4 Nov 20 10:58:58 technically Nov 20 10:59:09 but nobody outside fic knows what the driver will actually support Nov 20 10:59:20 Only a specific version of mpeg4 Nov 20 10:59:28 but no H.264 in a list i see Nov 20 10:59:33 no AVC, sadly Nov 20 10:59:42 they were doing xvmc last I heard Nov 20 10:59:42 only the 3370 serie Nov 20 10:59:57 mjr: thats good Nov 20 11:00:06 xvmc seems more useful than opengl es Nov 20 11:00:29 yes Nov 20 11:00:39 not that the latter wouldn't be good to eventually have... Nov 20 11:01:25 if i could chose between earlier GTA03 and opengl es, i'd prefer earlier GTA03 Nov 20 11:13:10 CM: thnx alot - that worked! :D Nov 20 11:23:55 emdete: You're welcome :) Nov 20 11:24:47 tick: did you see my question? i didn't get an answer. i was asking why the OE kernel does not cooperate w/ gsmd sleep mode. Nov 20 11:25:15 03chris * r3452 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-dialer2/ (ChangeLog src/phone-kit/moko-dialer-sms.c): Nov 20 11:25:15 * src/phone-kit/moko-dialer-sms.c: (opened_cb), (moko_dialer_sms_init): Nov 20 11:25:15 Don't forget to open the note store before trying to do anything Nov 20 12:04:09 mickey_away, sorry I did not see that Nov 20 12:06:37 * CM did not see it either Nov 20 12:06:58 mickey_away, I need to check. kernel built from buildhost at Sept. is OK but that one in Nov 6 will make GSM firmware unable to sleep. Nov 20 12:07:16 mickey_away, I will check it tomorrow. Nov 20 13:13:45 hm, did something change with bluetooth? i use ScaredyCat's current image but after `echo 1 > ...` hciconfig does not show any device. Nov 20 13:18:55 how can I get to the terminal / execute commands in qtopia? Nov 20 13:49:43 emdete: It works for me with an image from sunday eve Nov 20 13:50:01 emdete: Just powered it on using the bluetooth icon in the panel Nov 20 13:52:30 is anyone else having problems with the SIM cards? it seems that sometimes the cards are not found, while they are carefully cleaned and put into place, and the pins are OK as well..? Nov 20 13:54:39 03chris * r3453 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-dialer2/ (ChangeLog src/phone-kit/moko-dialer-sms.c): Nov 20 13:54:39 * src/phone-kit/moko-dialer-sms.c: (moko_dialer_sms_finalize), Nov 20 13:54:39 (store_sms), (gsmd_eventhandler), (sms_msghandler), Nov 20 13:54:39 (net_msghandler), (opened_cb), (moko_dialer_sms_send): Nov 20 13:54:39 Add more debugging, get own phone number correctly Nov 20 13:55:52 ruxpin: Yes, other people have mentioned that too. Especially when there's no sd card in Nov 20 13:56:22 ruxpin: you might want to add your feedback to http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Carriers Nov 20 13:57:16 the SD card is installed Nov 20 13:57:56 demaledetti: I think he means physically recognized by the Neo, not carrier Nov 20 13:58:24 Hehe, humble nick there.. Nov 20 13:58:41 the carrier works fine, after the SIM card is physically found Nov 20 14:00:13 are there are 'tricks' to get the card detected? ;-) Nov 20 14:01:46 physically this card is in good condition Nov 20 14:02:01 I've never had a problem with it Nov 20 14:02:16 but I've only taken it out twice ever Nov 20 14:02:28 CM: I am confused, that page mentions CME error 10 (SIM not inserted) and CME error 13 (SIM failure), how do you tell if your SIM is not physically found otherwise? Nov 20 14:02:56 demaledetti: Ah, heh. Didn't look at the page, just saw that it was called Carriers Nov 20 14:03:04 demaledetti: Sorry, my mistake :) Nov 20 14:03:26 CM: no worries, I think the page name is confusing too Nov 20 14:11:51 * ScaredyCat stretches Nov 20 14:23:08 after flashing a new image booting halts on the "please wait" screen - what could've gone wrong Nov 20 14:23:28 do I have to nand erase rootfs? Nov 20 14:25:27 btw, is the nand erase necessary anymore? I've switched different sized images without doing that Nov 20 14:25:51 * ruxpin pets ScaredyCat Nov 20 14:25:56 morning Nov 20 14:28:53 * flexd barks at ScaredyCat Nov 20 14:45:12 ruxpin with newer u-boot it's not needed, right. Nov 20 16:20:40 yo Nov 20 16:39:33 yo Nov 20 16:41:09 yo Nov 20 16:41:14 yoyo Nov 20 16:45:24 Yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, check it out, yo, yo, yo (RATM - Calm like a bomb) :) Nov 20 16:47:34 check what out? Nov 20 16:47:39 i don't see anything worth checking out Nov 20 16:47:45 whats good in the neo scene right now? Nov 20 16:48:25 I think it's been fairly calm for a while.. Nov 20 16:48:27 I've got a GTA03! It came from a nice man in a tardis from the year 2043. Nov 20 16:48:46 woot Nov 20 16:50:31 D'oh - "We will re-design hardware version GTA02A5"... (bug 957) Nov 20 16:51:49 :-( Nov 20 16:52:30 ;* Nov 20 16:52:44 I wonder how much that will delay everything.. Nov 20 16:53:20 Hopefully they're getting faster at turning around hardware revs now. Nov 20 16:54:09 Some kind of official statement at least once a month what they're up to would also be nice.. Nov 20 16:54:11 is it really true, they're redesigning it ? Nov 20 16:55:17 google finds nothing about gta02a5 yet Nov 20 16:55:20 torpor: all I know is what's in that bugnote. Nov 20 16:55:34 #PILL.Lv Nov 20 16:55:34 dottedmag: it will now Nov 20 16:55:38 :) Nov 20 16:56:00 The P -1 phones were v4 (or a4 if they call them that now) Nov 20 16:56:35 Anyway working hardware is a top-priority. Even bug-ridden gsmd may be replaced. I agree to wait a month more to have working battery controller. Nov 20 16:56:57 Definitely, or it will never really be usable as a phone.. Nov 20 16:57:17 CM: are they gta01v4? I thought they had 4 iterations of gta02. Nov 20 16:57:27 s/they/moko team/ Nov 20 16:57:28 dottedmag meant: CM: are moko team gta01v4? I thought they had 4 iterations of gta02. Nov 20 16:57:34 damn :) Nov 20 16:57:37 hi Nov 20 16:57:39 I get it Nov 20 16:57:45 dottedmag, when you say bug ridden gsmd are you reffering to the software are the gsm hardware? Nov 20 16:57:52 i'm sorta finding my neo to be usable as a phone right now .. Nov 20 16:57:57 dottedmag: Yes, they had 4 revisions, now they have to make 5th Nov 20 16:58:11 torpor: How long does the battery last? Nov 20 16:58:13 CM: how far are they? Nov 20 16:58:20 omegai: I'm referring to the userspace gsmd daemon. Nov 20 16:58:46 edistar: What do you mean? Nov 20 16:58:50 CM: i dunno but its been 3 days since i bothered with battery issues .. i think the new kernel fixes the powerdown issue .. Nov 20 16:59:06 torpor: Yes, pm seems to work pretty ok now :) Nov 20 16:59:06 omegai: there was tension recently about the openmoko-team-only gsmd development and resulting quality. Nov 20 16:59:11 CM: how far is the OM team with gta02? Nov 20 17:00:03 edistar: All I know is that they did some samples of GTA02v4 3 weeks ago and they found a bug in the hw that they needed to fix Nov 20 17:00:09 ok Nov 20 17:00:17 edistar: mmontour noticed the comment in bug #957 Nov 20 17:00:25 thx Nov 20 17:00:34 so it won't be ready in december :( Nov 20 17:00:44 Doesn't look like it no... Nov 20 17:01:57 #PILL.Lv Nov 20 17:01:57 #PILL.Lv Nov 20 17:02:52 ~kick reL Nov 20 17:02:53 * apt kicks reL Nov 20 17:04:51 * mwester thanks CM Nov 20 17:05:05 ahh. /me loves bug #1013. Especially after reading http://www.grassouille.org/blogmax/041009.html Nov 20 17:05:29 mwester: Heh, not sure what for, but you're welcome :) Nov 20 17:05:54 :) kicking out the pest there. Nov 20 17:06:05 hehe Nov 20 17:07:07 dottedmag: Hehe, fun link Nov 20 17:08:57 * CM looks at CVirust and waits for a "Are we there yet?" ;) Nov 20 17:12:23 xora-psp: hello Nov 20 17:13:00 hello Nov 20 17:13:23 03thomas * r3454 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/libraries/libmokogsmd2/ (ChangeLog libmokogsmd/moko-gsmd-connection.c): Nov 20 17:13:23 * libmokogsmd/moko-gsmd-connection.c: Nov 20 17:13:23 (moko_gsmd_connection_dispose): Check validity of source and gsm handle Nov 20 17:13:23 before trying to disconnect from them Nov 20 17:13:33 xora-psp: What irc client is that? Easy to type? Nov 20 17:14:04 CM: pspirc, and its ok, you use analogue to select from a 3x3 grid and OX[]() to select letter Nov 20 17:14:34 Ah, clever typing, haven't seen that before Nov 20 17:15:25 CM: no point having homebrew pdp and not playing around Nov 20 17:15:49 Hehe, definitely not. No good games for it? Nov 20 17:16:08 I've played that crazy tilting game with the blobbs rolling around Nov 20 17:17:42 CM: not got that one, I use it for some psone games, and I just loaded picoDrive Nov 20 17:17:55 the new hardware bug :-( Nov 20 17:18:25 tuukkah: I hope it's a quick fix that doesn't need any re-tooling or so Nov 20 17:19:24 CM, there's hope Nov 20 17:24:58 tuukkah: whats the hw bug about? Nov 20 17:25:54 edistar, an additional pin in the processor needs to be wired for battery monitoring to be implementable Nov 20 17:26:44 or rather, read here: http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=957 Nov 20 17:27:16 03thomas * r3455 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/libraries/libmokogsmd2/ (ChangeLog libmokogsmd/moko-gsmd-connection.c): Nov 20 17:27:16 * libmokogsmd/moko-gsmd-connection.c: Nov 20 17:27:16 (moko_gsmd_connection_dispose): Remove the reference to the current Nov 20 17:27:16 instance when object is disposed Nov 20 17:27:49 tuukkah: thanks, good that they found out at least Nov 20 17:28:09 i agree Nov 20 17:32:43 I wish the issue never existed in the first place Nov 20 17:33:43 more time to work on the software :-) Nov 20 17:35:00 heh, true again ;) Nov 20 17:36:01 03thomas * r3456 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-dialer2/ (3 files in 2 dirs): Nov 20 17:36:01 * src/phone-kit/moko-dialer.c: (moko_dialer_get_status), Nov 20 17:36:01 (moko_dialer_dial), (moko_dialer_class_init), (dialer_init_gsmd): Nov 20 17:36:01 * src/phone-kit/moko-dialer.h: Nov 20 17:36:01 - Return error messages when d-bus functions fail. Nov 20 17:36:01 - Try to re-connect to gsmd on each d-bus function rather than only on Nov 20 17:36:05 initialisation Nov 20 17:36:41 03thomas * r3457 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-dialer2/ (ChangeLog data/openmoko-dialer.desktop): * data/openmoko-dialer.desktop: Set single instance to true Nov 20 17:37:35 03thomas * r3458 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-dialer2/ (ChangeLog src/phone-kit/moko-dialer-sms.c): Nov 20 17:37:35 * src/phone-kit/moko-dialer-sms.c: (opened_cb): Don't abort if Nov 20 17:37:35 connecting to gsmd fails Nov 20 17:47:16 03thomas * r3459 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-dialer2/ (ChangeLog src/dialer/dialer-main.c): Nov 20 17:47:16 * src/dialer/dialer-main.c: (dial_clicked_cb), (main): Use a message box Nov 20 17:47:16 to notify users of dialing errors Nov 20 17:49:07 03chris * r3460 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-messages2/ (6 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed) Nov 20 17:49:07 * configure.ac: Nov 20 17:49:07 * src/Makefile.am: Nov 20 17:49:07 * src/sms-main.c: (main): Nov 20 17:49:07 * src/sms-notes.c: (get_selected_contact), (page_shown), Nov 20 17:49:09 (new_toggled_cb), (send_clicked_cb), (sms_notes_page_new): Nov 20 17:49:11 * src/sms.h: Nov 20 17:50:08 CIA-14: nopaste.org? Nov 20 17:50:39 edistar, don't stop the good news of progress from flooding in !-) Nov 20 17:50:50 tuukkah: sry ;) Nov 20 17:52:27 03chris * r3461 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-dialer2/ (3 files in 2 dirs): Nov 20 17:52:27 * src/phone-kit/moko-dialer-sms.c: (moko_dialer_sms_send): Nov 20 17:52:27 * src/phone-kit/moko-dialer-sms.h: Nov 20 17:52:27 Return error message when trying to send an SMS after failing to Nov 20 17:52:27 connect to gsmd Nov 20 17:52:28 It's only goodness once the sane srcrevs file gets bumped ;) Nov 20 17:57:03 hi Nov 20 17:57:17 hi Nov 20 18:05:54 CIA-14 is a bot edistar Nov 20 18:06:13 it reports commits Nov 20 18:06:24 ScaredyCat: Oh, I am stupid :P can't it tell me via msg? ;) Nov 20 18:06:26 tat's its job :) Nov 20 18:06:33 ScaredyCat: sry then ;) Nov 20 18:06:47 but then we'd need to read your /msg 's Nov 20 18:07:28 ScaredyCat: no, I mean if I address CIA-14 it could msg me back to STFU because its a bot :) Nov 20 18:07:52 oh, lol - you muppet ;) Nov 20 18:07:58 ScaredyCat: :P Nov 20 18:29:27 03chris * r3462 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-dialer2/ (ChangeLog src/phone-kit/moko-dialer-sms.c): Nov 20 18:29:27 * src/phone-kit/moko-dialer-sms.c: (moko_dialer_sms_class_init): Nov 20 18:29:27 Don't forget to register introspection data Nov 20 18:30:02 what is introspection data? Nov 20 18:33:25 Any of you guys got the GTA02 yet ? Nov 20 18:34:02 a few do Nov 20 18:38:03 torpor: how are things going with it ? Nov 20 18:38:20 CVirus: i don't have one, so don't ask me! Nov 20 18:38:29 heh Nov 20 18:40:06 CVirus: Not so good, they're doing a new revision Nov 20 18:40:36 CM: not so good in terms of what exactly ? Nov 20 18:40:43 CVirus: Something with the battery. Look at bug 957 Nov 20 18:40:56 CM: if this fixes the 850mhz issues etc. it is imo a good news Nov 20 18:41:11 borg_: Yes, that would be good news indeed :) Nov 20 18:41:36 why would a battery bug fix 850mhz issues? Nov 20 18:41:54 IT won't directly Nov 20 18:42:07 but if they nevertheless have to make a new revision Nov 20 18:42:08 however, a respin of the board means that there is opportunity to change stuff Nov 20 18:42:15 yes Nov 20 18:42:32 exactly Nov 20 18:42:40 that would be good, but the more changes the longer it will take Nov 20 18:42:51 omegai: that's not really true Nov 20 18:42:54 more to re0test Nov 20 18:43:00 re-test Nov 20 18:43:08 omegai: the more changes the higher the risk of it not working out of the box and needing respun Nov 20 18:43:17 but it generally won't take longer. Nov 20 18:45:22 * Writchie|zzzZZZz wonders what real 850/900 problem is - chipset is designed for a shared 850/900 RF path Nov 20 18:45:44 there is a three-way mux going to assorted filters Nov 20 18:45:53 and there is no 850 filter Nov 20 18:46:07 for a quad phone you need four filters and a four-way mux Nov 20 18:46:21 uuh Nov 20 18:46:26 this sounds like a major change Nov 20 18:46:41 swapping out the 900 fiter for an 850 filter is a trivial change Nov 20 18:46:45 the calypso quad band reference shows a 850/900 1800 and 1900 filters with a single filter for 850/900 Nov 20 18:47:02 exactly, im not a hardware buff, but where are the filters located? Nov 20 18:47:02 Writchie: I'm just repeating what ro h said Nov 20 18:47:13 SpeedEvil: but than you have to make two versions of the neo Nov 20 18:47:19 Writchie: who has schematics! Nov 20 18:47:23 borg_: true Nov 20 18:47:25 for europe and for north america Nov 20 18:47:29 will that require changes to the main board? Nov 20 18:47:34 borg_: or do the work for a quadband phone Nov 20 18:47:45 there's a block diagram for the quadband rf - wait one Nov 20 18:47:49 omegai: swapping the filters requires no board rework Nov 20 18:47:53 whichever will get me one faster i say Nov 20 18:48:00 omegai: making a quadband phone does Nov 20 18:48:16 wtf .. Harald is out ? who took his place ? Nov 20 18:48:36 CVirus: No one yet... Nov 20 18:49:47 will two versions drastically change the manufacturing process? Nov 20 18:50:05 i.e. will it be more work than going quad-band? Nov 20 18:50:45 omegai: no, it won't Nov 20 18:52:26 SpeedEvil: http://focus.ti.com/general/docs/wtbu/wtbuproductcontent.tsp?templateId=6123&navigationId=12296&contentId=4701 Nov 20 18:53:01 anyone know where evolution contacts should be copied to now? these instructions don't work anymore http://openmoko.togaware.com/survivor/Contacts.html Nov 20 18:53:21 and I spent lots of time running grep in hopes of finding out where stuff is stored now with no effect Nov 20 18:53:27 SpeedEvil: it may require a more expensive/different layout switchplexer to meet filtering requirements Nov 20 18:53:48 i suppose i may need to go look at the sources if no on can answer my question. Nov 20 18:54:06 Writchie: I've not gone into the 'datasheet' of the calypso - and am just going by what ro h said. Nov 20 18:54:27 AFAIK only they have the data sheet Nov 20 18:54:31 Writchie: more expensive meens something like 10 cents in this case, doesnt it? Nov 20 18:54:48 borg_: it's probably layout issues Nov 20 18:54:54 yes Nov 20 18:54:58 of course Nov 20 18:54:59 and testing Nov 20 18:55:56 is there now someone at fic who is responsable for gsmd? Nov 20 18:56:09 borg_: yes, sean Nov 20 18:56:12 I mean 'datasheet' - what's available publically - the datasheet is what's under NDA Nov 20 18:56:15 who can one ask for things that are needed for gsmd? Nov 20 18:56:27 borg_: Why not just ask tick? Nov 20 18:56:37 He was here all day (.tw time) today Nov 20 18:56:44 really? Nov 20 18:56:46 nice! Nov 20 18:56:53 i have never seen him here before Nov 20 18:57:03 mickey_away prodded him a bit Nov 20 18:57:09 nice Nov 20 18:57:10 thats good Nov 20 18:57:22 jserv-- is also a fic-guy Nov 20 18:57:41 who is tick? Nov 20 18:57:52 edistar: The guy responsible for gsmd Nov 20 18:57:57 CM: ah, cool Nov 20 18:58:02 Just check the commit log :) Nov 20 19:04:05 Writchie, the block diagram is good to have. do we use the other chips of tcs2010 too? Nov 20 19:05:08 it looks to me like the 2010 chipset is the version they are using Nov 20 19:14:50 is a nfc chip in the OM? Nov 20 19:21:22 playya, what's nfc? Nov 20 19:21:51 near field connection Nov 20 19:22:01 Largely hype as of yet Nov 20 19:22:05 and no Nov 20 19:22:27 there was another thing i cant remember :D Nov 20 19:22:32 SpeedEvil: do you know anything about the accelerometers? anyone tested them yet? Nov 20 19:22:43 edistar: not of the ones in the neo Nov 20 19:23:05 thats what i want to know Nov 20 19:23:08 SpeedEvil: how do you address them while programming? Nov 20 19:23:09 I have previously commented that the ones mentioned ages ago in the mailing list are very poor resolution even compared with the (somewhat sucky) state of the art Nov 20 19:23:11 g sensors Nov 20 19:23:20 as in 16 milligee versus 1 Nov 20 19:23:36 which is a velocity uncertainty of 16cm/s^2, not 1cm/s^2 Nov 20 19:23:51 I don't know how they are accessed in terms of liubraries Nov 20 19:23:54 and will these ones be built into the neo? Nov 20 19:24:17 as I understand it, they are connected over the I2C bus, and will be read through that. Nov 20 19:24:22 and secondly, will OM recognize when I turn the device and rotate X? Nov 20 19:24:33 edistar: probably not yet Nov 20 19:24:37 I tried xrandr on my laptop, but it won't turn it :( Nov 20 19:24:38 edistar: eventually - sure Nov 20 19:24:41 cool Nov 20 19:24:48 edistar: it only works on some drivers Nov 20 19:24:52 SpeedEvil: well, the important thing is eventually :) Nov 20 19:24:54 edistar: it crashes on mylappy Nov 20 19:24:54 SpeedEvil: ah, ok Nov 20 19:25:01 SpeedEvil: would it work with the nvidia driver? Nov 20 19:25:21 edistar: I don't know. I tend not to buy top-of-the-range cards. Nov 20 19:25:33 SpeedEvil: it was in my notebook.. Nov 20 19:25:44 My last several cards have cost less than a large pork joint. Nov 20 19:26:16 SpeedEvil: I have a radeon 9200, really useful, passive and quite cool(temp) Nov 20 19:27:09 yes, my graphics card is passive cooled too, thats the most important feature for me :) Nov 20 19:27:13 * b52deb_ is wondering if he can ask stupid off topic question Nov 20 19:27:27 :d Nov 20 19:27:38 \me is wondering why b52deb_ doesnt just ask :) Nov 20 19:27:41 b52deb_, you had your chance and you missed it twice already ;-) Nov 20 19:27:43 b52deb_: the worst that will happen is that someone hunts you down and stakes you out over an anthill after pouring honey on you, so go for it. Nov 20 19:28:02 * borg_ test Nov 20 19:28:07 oh Nov 20 19:28:08 ppl do you a university that offer distant course in embedded systems/ electonical engineerring ? Nov 20 19:28:13 :d Nov 20 19:28:31 that's a very on-topic question Nov 20 19:29:00 well depend :d ... Nov 20 19:30:36 SpeedEvil: looks like the calypso may not be a true quad band with only three LNA's. A more complex switch/filter would probably be required without the 4 LNAs. Nov 20 19:30:47 :/ Nov 20 19:31:06 time for HSDPA/EDGE anyway Nov 20 19:31:16 True. Nov 20 19:31:24 But that's horribly messy. Nov 20 19:31:40 7 bands Nov 20 19:31:43 Writchie: you mean the next gsm chip will have HSDPA? when will umts come? Nov 20 19:32:25 edistar: not soon Nov 20 19:32:45 will the OM be released later in europe or should i save some money in decembre? Nov 20 19:32:52 Writchie: I don't have money for umts anyway, but some people require it..a few friends ;) Nov 20 19:32:52 IMO. Nov 20 19:33:02 The chances of december are vanishingly small at this point. Nov 20 19:33:10 playya: OM is an OS, neo1973 is the device Nov 20 19:33:13 b52deb_, at least you might find some interesting reading here: http://ocw.mit.edu/OcwWeb/Electrical-Engineering-and-Computer-Science/ Nov 20 19:33:14 almost < 0 Nov 20 19:33:25 when will it be ready for europe? Nov 20 19:33:26 Given what's been released and leaked, it looks like december might just about be hit for the distribution of dev devices Nov 20 19:33:30 i mentioned it as a whole project Nov 20 19:33:59 but the absolute earliest for purchasable devices is likely to be months more Nov 20 19:34:01 tuukkah, thanks a lot for the link Nov 20 19:34:11 famous last words - just one ore spin Nov 20 19:34:23 ok. then i could spend more time with my EEEPC in decembre Nov 20 19:34:26 s/ore/more/ Nov 20 19:34:26 Writchie meant: famous last words - just one more spin Nov 20 19:34:32 * edistar is sad, even more time till the neo is in my hands.. Nov 20 19:34:35 np: Brittany Spears - Spinning around. Nov 20 19:35:51 * Writchie thinks adding WiFi is what caused this train wreck Nov 20 19:36:24 yay, another frequency! D: Nov 20 19:36:30 and GPU Nov 20 19:36:33 ..actually, not another frequency, but another protocol Nov 20 19:36:35 bt is 2.4 Nov 20 19:37:02 was GPU actually needed? Nov 20 19:37:25 only to make up for software shortcomings IMNSHO Nov 20 19:37:33 ok ;) Nov 20 19:37:40 software shortcomings? Nov 20 19:37:51 anrp: slow software Nov 20 19:38:00 unnecessary slow software Nov 20 19:38:17 edistar: it's not slow, it's alternatively fast :))) Nov 20 19:38:23 you can definitely say that openmoko is unnecessarily slow right now .. Nov 20 19:39:00 while the 640x480 is very nice - its nots worth 4x speed degradation Nov 20 19:39:15 heh Nov 20 19:39:23 320x240 would be fine 99% of the time. Nov 20 19:39:44 Writchie: no, VGA is brilliant, should be the new standard Nov 20 19:40:01 vga rocks Nov 20 19:40:22 scumm is needed for OM Nov 20 19:40:32 i'd rather have a working 240x320 Nov 20 19:40:33 scumm is already on OM Nov 20 19:40:49 Writchie: a working VGA is the aim, and there is still time Nov 20 19:40:52 very good Nov 20 19:41:09 my symbian s40 is too lame for scumm :( Nov 20 19:42:11 brr.. I don't like symbian Nov 20 19:42:15 if the WiFi and GPU were left for a next generation product (6 months ago) instead of trying to cram it all into the existing design, we would IMHO be much further along. Nov 20 19:42:51 but then I would buy a device without wifi and then another with and have no money left for food ;) Nov 20 19:43:00 * mmontour thinks WiFi is worth the wait Nov 20 19:43:03 Personally, I need wifi. Nov 20 19:43:06 edistar: then get a job Nov 20 19:43:11 well, for those who don't need wifi and gpu, gta01 hardware is here already Nov 20 19:43:13 I am less convinced of the GPU Nov 20 19:43:43 !seen raster Nov 20 19:43:44 if you believe raster then the GPU is of less help than everyone thinks Nov 20 19:43:45 torpor, raster is right here! Nov 20 19:43:51 why do you absolutely need WiFi not, as opposed to say BT access point? Nov 20 19:43:54 raster: what say you about the GPU? Nov 20 19:44:44 i'd rather have Class 1 BT than WiFi in a phone. Nov 20 19:45:21 Writchie: your choice, I can use wifi more Nov 20 19:45:32 Writchie: how many BT access points are there in the country? Nov 20 19:45:42 SpeedEvil: one at home :P Nov 20 19:45:45 every linux box Nov 20 19:45:54 Writchie: no. Nov 20 19:46:04 Writchie: every linux box that has been configured to do it. Nov 20 19:46:13 Which is very dramatically from the same thing. Nov 20 19:46:13 with a $7 dongle Nov 20 19:46:19 I've found BT very buggy, and WiFi access points are a lot more common Nov 20 19:46:37 And public BT points are essentially nonexistant. Nov 20 19:46:42 somehow i never knew of this page: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GTA01_gsm_modem Nov 20 19:47:06 tuukkah: it's your fault. The wiki is perfectly organised and logical. Nov 20 19:47:31 * SpeedEvil is away - rolling on floor laughing. Nov 20 19:47:44 =D Nov 20 19:48:02 Writchie: do you have a model number for a $7 BT dongle that actually works well with Linux? I've tried two $30-ish ones that both suck in different ways Nov 20 19:48:12 SpeedEvil, without some heavy smilies, that's scary :-) Nov 20 19:48:23 i'm looking forward to wimax Nov 20 19:48:28 why is the wiki still full of specs for software for 2007.1? I was a bit surprised Nov 20 19:48:42 edistar: because you haven't edited it out yet. Nov 20 19:48:45 :/ Nov 20 19:48:55 now the interesting bit on that wiki page is that i get better audio quality during calls after AT@ST="-26" Nov 20 19:49:04 Placid: wimax is good - but it's just anohter ISP Nov 20 19:49:51 mmontour: i've seen Bluecore 4 based dongles in volume on eBay - how do your's suck? Nov 20 19:50:07 but hopefully brings higher speed for wireless connections Nov 20 19:50:43 I have an Asus one that has a less than 30cm range (although it claimed 100m or something) Nov 20 19:50:53 The other one has a MAC address of "11:11:11:11:11:11 Nov 20 19:51:27 mmontour: sounds like it isn't programmed. Nov 20 19:51:36 and the other sounds like it has no antenna Nov 20 19:51:37 has to be set to promisc mode to actually see packets, won't handle a SSH connection even though I can ping... Nov 20 19:51:45 kernel panic'd my OS X laptop, etc. Nov 20 19:53:10 mmontour: does OS/X use the BlueZ stack? Nov 20 19:54:15 * Kliment_ has a bluecore dev kit Nov 20 19:54:35 those things support device firmware upgrade, just like the neo Nov 20 19:54:55 of course getting official firmware is another story Nov 20 19:55:05 Kliment_: can you do non-official firmware? Nov 20 19:55:15 Writchie: I don't think so - there's no 'hcitool' command, for example (but I'm not an expert on OSX internals) Nov 20 19:55:18 for debug, sure Nov 20 19:55:18 IOW - are there docs? Nov 20 19:55:47 I do have official firmware too, just not something I can distribute Nov 20 19:55:54 Kliment_: does it stay flashed? Nov 20 19:55:56 it comes with the $3000 kit Nov 20 19:56:01 yes it stays flashed Nov 20 19:56:18 the bt address can be changed over usb Nov 20 19:56:32 csr have a program to do that Nov 20 19:57:11 I was meaning for making it into something other than a USB BT device - forex. Or more than a simple one. Nov 20 19:57:47 SpeedEvil: yes, this is why I have the dev kit :) Nov 20 19:58:03 it has a little virtual machine on it that runs c Nov 20 19:58:11 with access to all the bt functionality Nov 20 19:58:16 I really need $40K or so for bluetooth dev gear. Nov 20 19:58:24 you don't Nov 20 19:58:33 $3500 will get you rolling Nov 20 19:58:50 I really want to do custom hardware stuff, and board designs, so I really - I think - need an airside protocol analyser Nov 20 19:58:52 get modules from a7 with the bluecore, then the dev kit to program them Nov 20 19:58:56 which are spendy AIUI. Nov 20 19:59:14 if you want to do wifi or bt then it's pretty easy Nov 20 19:59:34 you can have the bluecore channel everything it sees on the air to usb Nov 20 19:59:55 that's not really the same as verifying the RF output of the board you've just made though. Nov 20 19:59:56 for wifi you can do this with some chipsets already Nov 20 20:00:03 SpeedEvil: no of course not Nov 20 20:00:11 SpeedEvil: but how often will you need to do that? Nov 20 20:00:22 If you are going to be making and selling a BT device. Nov 20 20:00:45 SpeedEvil: then you use prequalified parts like all the sane people do :) Nov 20 20:00:56 Too large. Nov 20 20:01:00 :/ Nov 20 20:01:03 how small do you want? Nov 20 20:01:25 SpeedEvil: what are you building? Nov 20 20:01:29 1cmx2cmx1mm is too large? Nov 20 20:02:10 4.5mm2 Nov 20 20:02:10 if so, you get the bluecore itself which is less than half a cm squared and very thin Nov 20 20:02:43 Anyway - I need to get on with clearing my greenhouse :/ Nov 20 20:02:44 wave Nov 20 20:03:00 blue, green, very colorful you are Nov 20 20:03:11 heh Nov 20 20:03:53 it's just entirely unrealistic to build and certify custom bt hardware Nov 20 20:03:59 and it makes no sense to do so Nov 20 20:04:38 even if you make boards yourself, you want the radio part prequalified Nov 20 20:06:04 Kilment_: the A7 HCI parts are vanilla Bluecore 4? Nov 20 20:07:09 bluecore 2 when we ordered a couple months back Nov 20 20:07:29 but yes, they have a voltage regulator, power filtering, bluecore and flash Nov 20 20:07:33 Kliment_: what kind of work do you have? Nov 20 20:07:34 and that's it Nov 20 20:07:56 edistar: I work at a psychology department at a university, curiously Nov 20 20:08:04 Kliment_: ah :P Nov 20 20:08:08 funny Nov 20 20:08:22 we are working together with a company to make a measurement system for psychophysiology Nov 20 20:08:32 and we want it wireless Nov 20 20:08:36 thus bluetooth Nov 20 20:09:02 cool Nov 20 20:09:24 HOOORJ Nov 20 20:09:31 got the SD card back for the phone Nov 20 20:09:40 the hardware is just battery, a7 module, a/d converter and chip antenna Nov 20 20:09:56 and we stick a usb connector in for charging and reflashing Nov 20 20:10:52 I'd like to do that kind of work.. Nov 20 20:11:31 we're only doing it because you can't buy things like this Nov 20 20:11:38 yeah :) Nov 20 20:11:50 unavailability of cool stuff is what keeps me employed :) Nov 20 20:12:15 :\ Nov 20 20:12:34 anyone having trouble with u-boot from like 30 hours ago? Nov 20 20:12:38 I'd like to build odd hardware :) Nov 20 20:12:44 I'm not getting to the kernel at all Nov 20 20:12:45 hachi: gta-01 or qemu? Nov 20 20:12:51 01 Nov 20 20:13:11 it's iffy, once in a while it boots Nov 20 20:13:35 I was running the august image prior to this, and it was incredibly consistent at booting with that one Nov 20 20:13:49 hachi: so you have a dev board? Nov 20 20:13:51 edistar: do it, I'll outsource my job to you :) Nov 20 20:13:54 no Nov 20 20:14:03 Kliment_: still go to school ;) Nov 20 20:14:12 edistar: he's brave. Nov 20 20:14:36 hachi: There are known timing issues with recent (ok, and not-so-recent) uboot versions. Nov 20 20:14:56 actually, you know I just threw the SD card in and it got a lot worse Nov 20 20:16:01 nope, it's just really bad today Nov 20 20:16:12 I'll switch back to the august image Nov 20 20:17:06 edistar: how much school do you have left? :P Nov 20 20:17:27 Kliment_: one year Nov 20 20:17:40 Kliment_: where do you work? so eager to change job? :P Nov 20 20:17:50 no, I love my job Nov 20 20:18:09 Kliment_: ah.. was wondering..which uni are you at? Nov 20 20:18:11 but there really should be some company doing this sort of custom hardware Nov 20 20:18:31 instead of research departments having to break their nerves with it Nov 20 20:18:38 cologne, germany Nov 20 20:18:55 Kliment_: can I come and visit some time? ;) I like about 1,5 h from Koeln Nov 20 20:19:11 really? where? Nov 20 20:19:20 Kleve Nov 20 20:19:23 * Kliment_ draws a mental circle on the map Nov 20 20:19:44 google maps is more helpful ;) Nov 20 20:19:55 * Kliment_ looks it up Nov 20 20:20:10 ah, north of Venlo Nov 20 20:20:14 by the border Nov 20 20:20:18 Kliment_: yep Nov 20 20:20:30 I moved here three months back Nov 20 20:20:43 Kliment_: are you german? Nov 20 20:20:49 no Nov 20 20:21:03 k Nov 20 20:21:19 do you like germany? Nov 20 20:21:23 born on bulgaria originally, lived in finland for the past ten years, and now here Nov 20 20:21:32 well, what is germany? Nov 20 20:21:41 there are things to like and things not to like Nov 20 20:21:48 and it's not like it's the same everywhere Nov 20 20:22:20 do you like the beer in cologne? Nov 20 20:22:33 not bad at all Nov 20 20:22:41 duetche beer sucks :P Nov 20 20:22:42 :) Nov 20 20:22:45 one of the best nonbelgian beers I've had Nov 20 20:22:58 univac: why? which did you try? Nov 20 20:23:02 univac: what do you recommend? Nov 20 20:23:20 polish, czech, sk Nov 20 20:23:38 from bulgaria i prefer only zagorka and kamenitza Nov 20 20:23:39 :) Nov 20 20:23:44 polish I have not experienced Nov 20 20:23:51 czech is good, but I like belgian beer most, then german Nov 20 20:23:56 czech and slovak have a fair bit of variety, some I don't like Nov 20 20:24:05 zlaty bazant > * Nov 20 20:24:07 :} Nov 20 20:24:10 never tried Nov 20 20:24:17 bring me some? ;) Nov 20 20:24:41 maybe, when i'll buy ;-) Nov 20 20:25:02 but actually, after my finnish beer experience I've really cut down on beers, and so every time I have german or belgian beer it's a pleasant surprise Nov 20 20:25:59 finnish beer not good? Nov 20 20:26:06 not to my taste, no Nov 20 20:26:16 isn't it expensive too? Nov 20 20:26:33 all beer is ixpensive in finland Nov 20 20:26:37 expensive* Nov 20 20:26:40 ok Nov 20 20:29:51 * Kliment_ looks at the silent glares of all the finns in the room ;) Nov 20 20:30:08 heh, well, facts are facts.. Nov 20 20:30:32 An icy cold Lapin Kulta in a sauna isn't that bad.. Nov 20 20:30:34 Kliment_: ever been to norway? Nov 20 20:31:08 only to oslo Nov 20 20:31:22 actually, I don; Nov 20 20:31:28 how were the beer prices? Nov 20 20:31:30 don't like lapin kulta at all Nov 20 20:31:52 Vegar: never had beer in Oslo, I was only there a few days Nov 20 20:32:00 ok Nov 20 20:32:06 wanted to visit a friend and see the children's art museum Nov 20 20:32:07 Kliment_: No favourite of mine either, but better than Koff Nov 20 20:32:18 most things are better than koff :P Nov 20 20:32:22 Hehe Nov 20 20:32:29 Olvi isn't, in my opinion Nov 20 20:33:18 Alcohol in Norway is so expensive that they buy it in Sweden instead. The swedes buy in Denmark, because that's a lot cheaper, and the Danish seem to buy in Germany because that's even cheaper Nov 20 20:33:19 IRC in the kitchen is one of the upsides of having a Toughbook :) Nov 20 20:33:27 heheh Nov 20 20:33:45 between the stove and the electric kettle :) Nov 20 20:34:08 * CoreDump wished he could afford a TB Nov 20 20:34:46 * edistar wishes he could afford a sata controller to somehow use his 2 250GB disks.. Nov 20 20:34:48 at 3k new they aren't much worse than Lenovo for example Nov 20 20:35:04 this is the consumer TB of course Nov 20 20:35:39 not the police/military version Nov 20 20:35:46 * edistar has an old laptop that rattles cause some invisible metall is loose, but is perfectly content because it runs debian perfectly Nov 20 20:38:31 Kliment_: 3k what for what? Nov 20 20:38:58 panasonic toughbook Nov 20 20:39:01 zash: Panasonic CF-Y7 for example Nov 20 20:42:40 I think that's what they go for these days Nov 20 20:42:45 I have a Y4 myself Nov 20 20:43:08 soon 2 years old, going strong Nov 20 20:45:27 I actually seem to have a fair bit of kölsch in my fridge Nov 20 20:46:15 Kliment_: I'll come along right now ;) Nov 20 20:47:21 sure Nov 20 20:47:26 making a fair bit of food Nov 20 20:47:32 wouldn't mind sharing it Nov 20 20:47:41 but hurry, I'm hungry Nov 20 20:48:37 how could this conversation go more OT than it is right now... Nov 20 20:49:00 josch: start talking about.... alaska maybe? Nov 20 20:49:05 hrm... Nov 20 20:49:11 dr. house rulz! :-D Nov 20 20:49:15 heh Nov 20 20:49:22 in soviet russia, [...] Nov 20 20:49:31 I'd like to visit tux-land some time :) Nov 20 20:49:36 in soviet russia, TV watches YOU Nov 20 20:49:40 heh Nov 20 20:50:13 let's buy sealand! Nov 20 20:50:40 josch: OM can buy sealand and import neos w/o tax :) Nov 20 20:51:12 josch: Dr. House was a classic xmms2 release indeed Nov 20 20:51:52 let's support the pirate bay in buying sealand Nov 20 20:52:16 let's put openmoko on sealand's feature list Nov 20 20:52:23 Oh, xmms2 Nov 20 20:52:46 I've built a xmms2 client for openmoko. Nov 20 20:52:50 hey, will piratebay sealand be governed by a public wiki? :-D Nov 20 20:52:58 question, dialing does it work via the gui atm? Nov 20 20:53:06 josch: and a mailinglist! Nov 20 20:53:14 ^^ Nov 20 20:53:16 xcasex: yes Nov 20 20:54:20 edistar: most excellent, do the people behind the project drop by in here? Nov 20 20:54:35 xcasex: yes, some do sometimes Nov 20 20:56:03 i think most do actually Nov 20 20:57:47 Although I haven't seen roh since the last argument with him. Nov 20 20:58:13 2 days ago? Nov 20 20:58:22 well who of the guys idling here actually is officially FIC/openmoko personnel? Nov 20 20:58:45 Laf0rge sadly isn't anymore Nov 20 21:00:01 anders_: oh? Nov 20 21:00:13 josch: FIC has their agents everywhere :) Nov 20 21:00:19 the proper question is who isn't from FIC Nov 20 21:00:50 well I certainly am not from FIC ^^ Nov 20 21:00:52 * edistar isn't Nov 20 21:00:59 josch: can you prove it? :) Nov 20 21:00:59 me neither Nov 20 21:01:03 this only proves you are :) Nov 20 21:01:11 dottedmag, orm... Nov 20 21:01:25 the .tw at the end of the hostname is one hint Nov 20 21:01:50 LarstiQ: Yes. Nov 20 21:02:05 Kliment_: and cloak is definitely the way to hide the .tw :) Nov 20 21:02:21 hehe Nov 20 21:02:46 * josch routes his inet traffc through his german proxy to hide his FIC identity Nov 20 21:02:47 they don't like to be recognised Nov 20 21:02:51 good night! have to get up early tomorrow :( 6 oO Nov 20 21:03:20 * Kliment_ is actually in germany but sshing in to a shell in finland Nov 20 21:03:44 anders_: I'd like to try that in the future then. Nov 20 21:04:21 Kliment_, yeah being finish is much cooler than being german Nov 20 21:04:37 * balrog-kun is ircing from a computer in a nearby district of the city Nov 20 21:04:44 a more posh one Nov 20 21:05:34 balrog-kun: I thought all qemu hackers lived in posh districts ;) Nov 20 21:05:46 LarstiQ: http://blog.0x63.nu/2007/11/openmoko-xmms2-client.html Nov 20 21:05:52 and edistar is on an NL host though he is in germany Nov 20 21:06:05 LarstiQ: Seems like blogger ate the screencast though.. Nov 20 21:06:26 CM: they only ssh :p Nov 20 21:07:02 anders_, wooh! this app looks great - where are the ipks? Nov 20 21:07:13 anders_: Snyggt :) Nov 20 21:08:38 damn, my food is burning on the outside and it's not even done on the inside :( Nov 20 21:09:47 re Nov 20 21:09:48 anders_: thanks Nov 20 21:10:17 that reminds me to make some food Nov 20 21:10:30 apply microwaves Nov 20 21:11:08 josch: http://0x63.nu/files/ipkgs/ Nov 20 21:11:31 anders_, great! Nov 20 21:11:43 josch: Now the screencast should be there aswell. Nov 20 21:12:20 anders_, it is but sadly I'm not a flash user Nov 20 21:12:55 josch: Me neither Nov 20 21:13:10 anders_, you use gnash? Nov 20 21:13:37 josch: Let me upload the 3gp file somewhere. Nov 20 21:13:56 anders_, was that a request for webspace? Nov 20 21:14:17 * xcasex has wet dreams of perl on his cellphoen Nov 20 21:14:19 *phone Nov 20 21:14:38 xcasex: I think hachi would agree with you on that ;) Nov 20 21:14:45 [Dhaha ;) Nov 20 21:14:45 * josch also does Nov 20 21:14:56 * josch is in deep love with perl Nov 20 21:14:59 so anyone know when the phase2 handsets are coming out? Nov 20 21:15:10 josch: heh i'm in bed with her smoking my cigarette ;) Nov 20 21:15:13 xcasex: Best guess is probably january Nov 20 21:15:27 xcasex, I was yesterday Nov 20 21:15:30 josch: No :) http://people.0x63.nu/~andersg/mov00117.3gp Nov 20 21:15:36 anders_, thx! Nov 20 21:15:38 josch: so was yo mama ! :p Nov 20 21:15:59 CM: good good, wifi still go? Nov 20 21:16:43 xcasex: Of course :) Nov 20 21:17:02 anders_: Stabilt, kanske måste börja köra xmms2 istället för mpd nu då.. ;) Nov 20 21:17:21 vafan. hur mÃ¥nga av svenskarna här inne jobbar för redpill :p Nov 20 21:17:29 Inte jag Nov 20 21:18:03 wetten es können mehr user mitreden wenn wir auf einmal in deutsch anfangen? :-P Nov 20 21:18:14 träffade en konsult som hade en moko nere pÃ¥ oss forumet runt förrförra veckan :) Nov 20 21:18:17 josch: Kein problem.. ;) Nov 20 21:18:33 CM, impressive ^^ Nov 20 21:18:42 oh oh oh i know german as well! Nov 20 21:18:56 this channel has gone so damn ot Nov 20 21:19:05 "kanst ich spritzen aus ehren böse mit mein grosse schvanzen!" Nov 20 21:19:07 josch: Nein, jemand ins schweden sprecht deutsch ;) Nov 20 21:19:20 s/sprecht/spricht/ Nov 20 21:19:24 ^^ Nov 20 21:19:25 josch: Yes, I agree Nov 20 21:19:28 Danke Nov 20 21:19:43 \ignore * Nov 20 21:19:45 Anyway, the xmm2 client looked really nice Nov 20 21:19:46 josch: haha :D Nov 20 21:19:53 * josch plans to move to sweden after univerity Nov 20 21:20:02 dont Nov 20 21:20:03 josch: Warum? Nov 20 21:20:04 Hehe Nov 20 21:20:44 maybe... back to topic? Nov 20 21:20:48 jag har tomat ketchup i frysen Nov 20 21:20:58 i can speak it too :) Nov 20 21:21:07 CM, personal reason with the german government spying on us Nov 20 21:21:20 josch: anyway, you do have a neo unit though? Nov 20 21:21:22 balrog-kun: lol Nov 20 21:21:23 * mwester can't type it, but he learned to speak it from the Swedish chef on the Muppet show. Nov 20 21:21:29 xcasex, yeah I do Nov 20 21:21:31 what's this with the german government Nov 20 21:21:36 I live here, I want to know Nov 20 21:21:49 I use it for mokopedia and pygsmd development Nov 20 21:21:52 josch: works on a daily basis send/receive calls & sms's ? Nov 20 21:22:07 xcasex, I work do make this possible ^^ Nov 20 21:22:28 josch: oh awesome. i want to get off the htc s710i crackberry replica Nov 20 21:22:29 :D Nov 20 21:22:33 you can work on a daily basis with it if you use libgsmd-tool imho Nov 20 21:23:52 bbl Nov 20 21:23:56 Kliment_, you can read everything about it on heise.de http://www.heise.de/ct/hintergrund/meldung/95584 Nov 20 21:24:18 Kliment_, they report about all the idiotic stuff going on here on a daily basis Nov 20 21:24:52 oh, this thing, yeah Nov 20 21:25:35 Kliment_, if this is not changed by our bundesverfassungsgericht (court for rights) I will leave this country Nov 20 21:26:52 that sounds like http://xkcd.com/180/ Nov 20 21:27:11 they should name a ubuntu release bundesverfassungsgericht or some other german word Nov 20 21:27:49 I moved here to be able to do the things that interest me Nov 20 21:27:57 balrog-kun, lol Nov 20 21:28:07 * josch also loves xkcd Nov 20 21:29:28 haha Nov 20 21:30:11 but of course it's always a compromise, no matter where I live Nov 20 21:46:18 balrog-kun: for releasenames with german sounding names we've got grml. Nov 20 21:46:50 balrog-kun: but in general, I'm waiting for horny hamster... Nov 20 21:48:33 ixs: nah, Horny Hamster sounds more like a kernel release Nov 20 21:49:23 balrog-kun: nope. it's a sucky ubuntu release. Nov 20 21:49:29 ignoble iguana would be next? Nov 20 21:50:27 weren't ubuntu versions single word names? Nov 20 21:56:38 my girlfriend makes fun of me and runs across our flat shouting "moko! mokomoko!!" like a pokemon... Nov 20 21:56:49 :) Nov 20 21:57:06 The only question is what you turn into when you evolve. Nov 20 21:57:14 lol Nov 20 21:57:48 josch: use moko's silencing attack :) Nov 20 21:58:30 thx for the tip guys - evil android stands no chance across my little mokomon! Nov 20 21:58:47 s/across/against/ Nov 20 21:58:47 josch meant: thx for the tip guys - evil android stands no chance against my little mokomon! Nov 20 22:01:04 balrog-kun: nope. ubuntu were always a two word alliteration. Nov 20 22:04:42 CM: not so much actually... except MAYBE for prototyping Nov 20 22:06:19 oh, feisty fawn! what else could be feisty if now fawn Nov 20 22:06:35 dumb me Nov 20 22:50:21 so, the marker on the wiki that says all phones don't include the binary driver Nov 20 22:50:27 links to an email from sean Nov 20 22:50:48 says "This should be very soon" in regards to getting the binary drivers available in july Nov 20 22:51:04 is this the last status of the gps drivers? Nov 20 22:51:18 there is an eula in the works by fic Nov 20 22:51:54 they will allow it if the eula is complete so that everyone using gllin can accept the eula prior to using it Nov 20 22:52:18 its been in the works for a while :/ Nov 20 22:53:44 there were progress reports from reverse engineers at some point too Nov 20 22:54:02 is this same sort of latency to be expected from the same chipset that will be in the GTA02? Nov 20 22:54:21 s/same chipset/chipset Nov 20 22:54:45 hachi: The chip in GTA02 needs no driver Nov 20 22:54:52 ahh good Nov 20 22:55:02 it's atheros gps Nov 20 22:55:04 oh, I see that now, dang Nov 20 22:55:08 sorry I missed that Nov 20 22:55:19 josch: atmel/ublox Nov 20 22:55:27 not atheros Nov 20 22:55:38 unless it changed again. Nov 20 22:55:50 wiki says atmel still Nov 20 22:56:11 antaris Nov 20 22:56:43 yes, the antaris is an atmel/ublox part Nov 20 22:56:47 i like them a lot Nov 20 22:57:04 i liked it also from looking at the datasheet Nov 20 22:57:14 i saw no mention of atmel anywhere though Nov 20 22:57:26 http://www.u-blox.com/products/atr0635.html Nov 20 22:57:37 says 'semiconductor tech provided by atmel' Nov 20 22:57:54 ah okay Nov 20 22:58:13 ublox writes the firmware, atmel melts sand. between the two of them they build a gps that doesn't suck Nov 20 23:56:09 hey are we still on gta02v4? Nov 20 23:57:47 * tuukkah is still on gta01... Nov 20 23:58:12 * bagpuss_thecat looks at ScaredyCat Nov 20 23:58:54 okay, so if i brought one from the shop, i would receive a gta01? Nov 20 23:58:59 $300 Nov 20 23:59:06 yes Nov 20 23:59:33 okay with gta02v4 coming december sometime Nov 20 23:59:37 oh dear, SpeedEvil too :-) Nov 20 23:59:42 I really doubt december. Nov 21 00:00:09 you think? Nov 21 00:00:13 shame, what am i going to get myself for christmas now? Nov 21 00:01:14 n810 :) Nov 21 00:01:20 any other 'must have' gadgets? Nov 21 00:01:53 why do you doubt December, SpeedEvil? Nov 21 00:02:19 thresh, hmm, i'm not sure. what about an Eee? Nov 21 00:02:28 OLPC Nov 21 00:02:34 Because for a start, no developer test machines have gone out to the wider community. Nov 21 00:02:50 This means that no beta testing has even started yet Nov 21 00:03:18 eonj, does it have a winding handle now? Nov 21 00:03:26 webjames, an olpc machine! Nov 21 00:03:38 webjames: no, the one you can buy from give 1 get 1 just has a power cord Nov 21 00:03:55 ive ordered it already :D only toy i need for xmas Nov 21 00:03:57 oh man Nov 21 00:04:01 GTA02A5? Nov 21 00:04:22 i like the idea, but i think an Eee for mee is more practical Nov 21 00:04:46 eonj, good job though, give one get one like it. Nov 21 00:05:11 Even if you horribly compress the timelines - say that test machines hit beta devs in 5 days, then evaluate them for 14 days, then we're already into about the 10th of december Nov 21 00:05:44 add another 10 days to complete production, 5 days to ship to the US, ... Nov 21 00:05:45 the comments on http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=957 mentions GTA02A5 Nov 21 00:05:57 and this is neglecting that thign Nov 21 00:06:18 Vegar, oh yeah. Nov 21 00:06:33 maybe willie made a typo Nov 21 00:06:53 That doesn't actually imply GTA0204 isn't shippable. Nov 21 00:07:04 * mwester marvels at the power of wishful thinking (typo!) :D Nov 21 00:07:14 A coloumb counter int he battery is very unimportant Nov 21 00:07:23 unless you change batteries often Nov 21 00:08:11 thanks mwester, and SpeedEvil you're right, but if you knew there was a new version around the corner wouldn't you wait? Nov 21 00:08:25 well - not for a coloumb counter Nov 21 00:08:39 it's maybe a couple of percent better battery charge state estimation. Nov 21 00:09:06 I'd actually rather they leave it out and make the battery $1 cheaper Nov 21 00:09:25 the current problems are _not_ due to difficulty in estimating charge state Nov 21 00:09:39 ;) understatement. Nov 21 00:09:59 are there any problems? Nov 21 00:10:13 what do you mean? Nov 21 00:10:27 * mwester suspects they were going to have to do an A5 anyway, and perhaps the Coloumb counter is just taking advantage of that. Nov 21 00:10:44 SpeedEvil: you said "the current problems are ..." Nov 21 00:11:02 well. Nov 21 00:11:30 As far as I understand it, the problems that bother me way more than the lack of a battery counter. Nov 21 00:11:38 rather than discuss this on irc, we should make a status report :-) Nov 21 00:11:39 Can't wake on bluetooth. Nov 21 00:12:00 This means that you can't make a call with the phone in your pocket from a BT headset. Nov 21 00:12:36 ... unless there's some life in the phone Nov 21 00:12:40 unless it's woken up Nov 21 00:12:43 The accelerometers suck - they need upgraded. (though I may be in a minority in this position, it's not actually a problem - but a lack of funcionality compared to what it can be) Nov 21 00:12:46 or its awake Nov 21 00:12:52 in which case its burning through battery Nov 21 00:12:54 :) Nov 21 00:12:57 Vegar: tuukkah: ra: yes - of course Nov 21 00:13:10 SpeedEvil, accelerometer hardware sucks? Nov 21 00:13:18 Does that also imply that the car kits will also require a hand to wake the phone - which would render a car kit less than completely useful. Nov 21 00:13:31 webjames: it's basically 16* less accurate than the rather sucky state-of-the-art Nov 21 00:14:01 mwester: maybe - you could do a USB power thing on the phone and wake it through that. Nov 21 00:14:23 mwester: but that raises a harder to fix problem - the USB connector sucks as a dock port Nov 21 00:14:31 mwester, wouldn't a car kit provide power? also, you can wake up the processor every second or so to check Nov 21 00:14:51 True, but if you solved the mechanical issue, you would also have no worries about the power. Nov 21 00:15:21 woah, no wakeup from bluetooth? Nov 21 00:15:25 SpeedEvil: it should be at the bottom for that - but it isn't, and it's a bit hard given the current design to put it there Nov 21 00:15:27 No :/ Nov 21 00:15:33 that resigns it to doorstop functionality for a lot of people Nov 21 00:15:46 raster: yes - somewhat. I have case ideas that may fix this. Nov 21 00:15:56 However, the bluetooth carkits I'm seeing lately don't worry about powering the phone, so I guess that would mean a spare battery would be a good thing to take on a trip. :) Nov 21 00:15:58 raster: but it's not really trivial Nov 21 00:16:03 SpeedEvil: i suspect they won't happen for the gta-02 Nov 21 00:16:07 :( Nov 21 00:16:10 SpeedEvil, Re:accelerometers. that sucks Nov 21 00:16:24 webjames: they are fine for telling which way up the device is. Nov 21 00:16:34 and to within a reasonable accuracy. Nov 21 00:17:10 See the Technical:Accellerometer_fundamentals page on the wiki for some actual numbers. Most of the numbers are based on the state of the art devices - not the ones in the phone Nov 21 00:17:14 well i guess thats good enough for a first version, things can only get better from there Nov 21 00:17:17 is it that bad to connect the phone to a cigarette lighter-usb charger when in your car Nov 21 00:17:40 tuukkah: no - it's rather more annoying than just being able to slam it into a cradle Nov 21 00:17:58 slam it into the door, it may be more use there... Nov 21 00:18:17 tuukkah: Not really, but the way the plug comes off the side makes it very awkward to place in a holder, and increases the probability of damage to the connector if the phone slides off the seat or dash. Nov 21 00:18:21 to safely be able to slam the neo into the cradle, you need a usb connector that inserts gently once the neo is in the holder Nov 21 00:18:34 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Accelerometer Nov 21 00:18:36 which is mechanically very tricky Nov 21 00:18:41 what about micro usb? it's aparently tougher Nov 21 00:18:57 webjames: the problem is not toughness - it's misalignment tollerance. Nov 21 00:19:18 http://www.linuxdevices.com/files/misc/fic_neo1973_car_kit.jpg Nov 21 00:19:18 in either connector, if you're off by 0.5mm, the metal bits hit and bind, don't slide Nov 21 00:19:21 what about that thing? Nov 21 00:19:37 that just looks like a suction cup and a clamp - nothing active Nov 21 00:19:47 ja Nov 21 00:19:54 yeah, i think thats just mounting Nov 21 00:20:01 yeah Nov 21 00:20:20 with 'proper' dock connectors, they contain guide features so that they orient the phone to within the tollerances required for the connector Nov 21 00:20:35 does the cradle really need to use vertical orientation of the phone? Nov 21 00:20:59 no - however try - with your hand held rigid - plugging the USB connector into the phone. Nov 21 00:21:10 There is _Very_ little misalignment tollerance Nov 21 00:21:20 tuukkah: horizontal might be better for navigation Nov 21 00:21:28 No, not really. And if one plugs it in sideways, the GPS connector is also at the bottom and can be connected. Nov 21 00:22:03 * mwester 's response was to tuukkah, not Vegar. Nov 21 00:22:51 But looking at the GPS connector, it doesn't seem that it would take a lot of cycles before it would succumb to wear and damage. Nov 21 00:22:57 SpeedEvil, then what about a specially designed usb plug that does some guiding? Nov 21 00:23:22 tuukkah: I think so - but they are not standard - the basic problem is that the phone needs to be designed around the plug Nov 21 00:23:58 it's weird the usb is on the side, but whats wrong with syncing it on it's side? Nov 21 00:24:07 the phone needs to have suitable features so a dock can grab them and guide the phone down to hit the plug in the right place - the guiding features then just complete the alignment Nov 21 00:24:48 webjames: nothing - the problem is that the USB plug as used is really unsuited for automated insertion. pull the plug out. Move it 0.5mm up, down, left or right, try to plug it back in. Nov 21 00:25:26 i see, micro usb wouldn't be any better also unless it had a couple of grooves Nov 21 00:25:50 Also if that plug does not go in cleanly, it will over time rip the USB socket off the board. Nov 21 00:26:02 Or at least make it unreliable. Nov 21 00:26:34 yeah, i see the problem. two groves on either side would mean it would make it possible to slide it in like on rails into the dock Nov 21 00:26:41 yeah Nov 21 00:27:07 it _could_ be done with the existing phone - but it's a more complex dock, and it will wear the case of the neo a lot. Nov 21 00:27:12 and it wouldn't make it look any worse in my opinion Nov 21 00:28:44 thing is it's possible without groves, just get a dock that fits the phones dimensions Nov 21 00:29:03 The best solution I came up with for a better dock was basically to move the GPS antenna all the way left, and put a vertically oriented USB socket there. Nov 21 00:29:07 It's possible. Nov 21 00:29:28 the problem is that the clearance required is so small that the phone will not slide cleanly into the dock Nov 21 00:30:26 mechanical design is as tricky as electronic design really. Nov 21 00:30:38 if you had it charging like an electric toothbrush, you could sync via bluetooth and no plug required Nov 21 00:30:39 And often as important to the user experience. Nov 21 00:31:06 webjames: if you integrated a shrew on a treadmill, you could power it with earthworms. Nov 21 00:31:28 alas - that raises other problems. Nov 21 00:31:45 Notably that the magnetic field needs to be quite high Nov 21 00:31:58 and the reciever coil needs to be moderately large. Nov 21 00:32:06 inductive coupling Nov 21 00:32:18 yes, I know, and have designed such systems. Nov 21 00:32:20 yeah, i don't think it's viable. but cool Nov 21 00:32:39 it is viable - but every cc of phone volume is a constant battle. Nov 21 00:32:59 not to mention weight Nov 21 00:33:08 that too. Nov 21 00:34:18 every kilogram of it ;-) Nov 21 00:35:53 haha Nov 21 00:37:47 the eee looks cool Nov 21 00:38:22 no, i wouldn't be worried of the hardware design now. we have hardware that would work if there was proper software Nov 21 00:38:35 yeah Nov 21 00:38:57 time for gta02 and later is later Nov 21 00:42:16 i don't hear much from people actually using the phone for something Nov 21 00:43:41 I wonder if the gta02's battery life is ever going to be able to compete with other phones' battery life Nov 21 00:44:14 Vegar, the better we make the power management, the better it will be able to compete :-) Nov 21 00:44:38 yes, but at a certain point you won't be able to improve the power management much Nov 21 00:45:05 in theory it could be better, by that i mean better managed, more customisable Nov 21 00:45:18 an approximation would be to take the capacity of the battery and divide by drain of the gsm chip Nov 21 00:45:51 yeah, that would be the ultimate, wouldn't it? Nov 21 00:46:55 so what's the drain of the gsm chip? Nov 21 00:47:03 I'm sure SpeedEvil knows Nov 21 00:47:27 Idle, but connected to network, 45mW Nov 21 00:47:44 I'm not sure that we do know - it too has power management abilities that are not yet turned on in the Neo. Nov 21 00:47:55 3500mWh from battery Nov 21 00:48:02 it should be about 10 mw in gsm idle if its handled right Nov 21 00:48:32 based on other modules with this chipset Nov 21 00:48:38 my numbers would give standby of a bit more than three days Nov 21 00:48:52 77.78 hours at 45mW Nov 21 00:49:05 tuukkah: is that the GTA01 or the GTA02 battery? Nov 21 00:49:12 i took the numbers from http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973_GTA01_Power_Management#Approximate_power_draw_of_various_subsystems Nov 21 00:49:34 those were wags IIRC Nov 21 00:50:37 we get the ballpark at least, i hope Nov 21 00:50:57 yeah Nov 21 00:51:34 especially with the extra 500mA in the GTA02's battery Nov 21 00:52:23 which the WiFi and GPU will pretty well eat up Nov 21 00:52:45 not if you shut down the wifi when you're not using it Nov 21 00:53:22 currently i get something like four hours of use as an ogg player Nov 21 00:53:33 if all is handled well, gsm talk time and idle standby should be ok. Nov 21 00:53:51 Anything that beats my old siemens C55 will do Nov 21 00:54:22 and unlimited use as a gprs modem for my laptop :-) Nov 21 00:55:23 gprs use will be very high power when actually active because SoC has to be running Nov 21 00:56:40 i connect over usb for several reasons :-) Nov 21 00:57:49 * Writchie is still amazed how many people still use cords Nov 21 01:01:38 i'm disappointed it doesn't look good for December Nov 21 01:03:08 webjames: you could mention at the community updates thing in the wiki to get some kind of official statement Nov 21 01:04:16 mwester: ping Nov 21 01:04:45 mention it* Nov 21 01:05:15 Vegar, i could, but i guess if they knew for certain they'd mention it themselves Nov 21 01:06:46 if engineers started testing the new revision start of this month, then it's still a possibly Nov 21 01:08:09 It's still a possibility for a poorly tested version to be rushed out Nov 21 01:08:21 it may well work just fine. Nov 21 01:08:40 yeah, obviously mass market wont happen december Nov 21 01:08:51 but as I understand it at the moment, the drivers are not really up to using the devices for day-day testing even. Nov 21 01:08:58 (at the moment) Nov 21 01:09:13 (I havne't been keeping up very well over the past couple of weeks, I may be wrong) Nov 21 01:10:18 i have heard it's good for making/receiving calls atm, but obviously battery life is a problem, not to mention sms Nov 21 01:10:42 details, details Nov 21 01:11:25 (I'm talking here of GTA02 drivers) Nov 21 01:11:40 (and completely omitting mention of GTA01 GPS drivers) Nov 21 01:13:19 as long as the hardware is relatively sound, software can be updated Nov 21 01:13:41 indeed - my point is that the drivers at the moment are not mature enough to use the device enough to expose hardware bugs. Nov 21 01:14:46 i see, shame. Nov 21 01:16:08 oh well time shall tell Nov 21 01:16:23 i just want a new toy at christmas Nov 21 01:17:25 the neo is the coolest thing i can find Nov 21 01:19:33 the $200 gOS pc thing is cool Nov 21 01:22:37 OLPC is cool too - I really want to see that sunlight-readable screen Nov 21 01:27:10 yeah, good idea. but not for me Nov 21 01:27:14 anyway night Nov 21 01:57:15 it would be really cool if someone really into openmoko would make a weekly podcast of whats going on in the development world **** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed Nov 21 02:59:56 2007