**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Nov 26 02:59:57 2007
Nov 26 03:24:28 <xzcvczx> nnpiggy: ping
Nov 26 03:24:57 <Taco> pong
Nov 26 03:25:10 <Taco> Ooops - sorry, I misread.
Nov 26 03:30:11 <xzcvczx> just a wee bit
Nov 26 03:45:45 <nnpiggy> Ixzcvczx pong.
Nov 26 03:54:58 * cjb_ie decides xzcvczx' nick discriminates against dvorak keyboard users
Nov 26 05:57:42 <xzcvczx> nnpiggy: still there?
Nov 26 06:02:00 <cdbot2> * * OM Bug 1026 has been created by tick(AT)openmoko.com
Nov 26 06:02:02 <cdbot2> * * Fix Libgsmd API
Nov 26 06:02:02 <cdbot2> * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1026
Nov 26 06:27:43 <CM> tick: Nice google document :)
Nov 26 06:27:56 <tick> CM, Thanks
Nov 26 06:38:00 <cdbot2> * * OM Bug 1027 has been created by john_lee(AT)openmoko.com
Nov 26 06:38:01 <cdbot2> * * Pre-built toolchain without OE
Nov 26 06:38:02 <cdbot2> * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1027
Nov 26 06:55:47 <CM> olv--: Nice to see some .tw openmoko developers in here :)
Nov 26 07:15:06 <blindcoder> moin
Nov 26 07:15:27 <hdr> moin
Nov 26 07:21:05 <NineX> can some one tell me what is estamined batery lifetime?
Nov 26 07:21:22 <NineX> btw ave :>
Nov 26 07:21:52 <CM> NineX: You mean now, or when the power management is working like it should?
Nov 26 07:22:04 <CM> GTA01 or 02?
Nov 26 07:22:53 <emdete> CM: is there more pm planned than standby as diskussed yesterday?
Nov 26 07:23:12 <NineX> gta01 , i just asking cause i need to know sholud i have second battery with me
Nov 26 07:23:12 <emdete> CM: i.e. slowing down cpu?
Nov 26 07:23:16 <CM> emdete: I think so, but I don't know the details
Nov 26 07:23:25 <CM> Yes, the cpu should go down to 12mhz
Nov 26 07:23:43 <emdete> CM: i don't like the idea of standby/resume - that is much too slow for my app
Nov 26 07:24:07 <CM> emdete: Sure?
Nov 26 07:24:27 <CM> emdete: The OLPC suspend/resumes in about a tenth of a second
Nov 26 07:24:34 <emdete> CM: i dream of a steady-online device...
Nov 26 07:24:54 <CM> Ah, but would 12MHz be enough for that?
Nov 26 07:25:11 <emdete> CM: wow... propably to slow to do ppp packages but...
Nov 26 07:26:12 <CM> emdete: Heh, I remembered wrong, it was 10 milliseconds: http://www.gettysfamily.org/wordpress/?p=26
Nov 26 07:26:34 <emdete> CM: i currently check around with gprs & gps on - gps needs the arm all the time
Nov 26 07:27:05 <CM> That was an ipaq, they expected 30-35 on the olpc.. Hmm
Nov 26 07:27:39 <CM> emdete: And gprs drops the connection if the phone suspends or?
Nov 26 07:28:25 <CM> emdete: Would be nice if the gsm modem buffered some packages then sent some signal to wake up the cpu to process it, and then go back to saving battery
Nov 26 07:28:39 <emdete> CM: yes
Nov 26 07:29:13 <emdete> currently everything is very, very unsteady. it often drops connections
Nov 26 07:29:33 <emdete> gps is not working very well over long periods (i check 2days or so)
Nov 26 07:29:42 <CM> Hopefully an improved gsmd (gsmd2?) would fix that :)
Nov 26 07:29:45 <emdete> even long standing gprs is not reliable
Nov 26 07:29:56 <emdete> no, no, no gsmd involved
Nov 26 07:30:14 <NineX> CM: do you know how long take order acceptation on openmoko shop?
Nov 26 07:30:14 <emdete> just pppd ( see my wiki entry about manyally gprs )
Nov 26 07:30:28 <CM> emdete: Ahh, I'll take a look
Nov 26 07:31:08 <emdete> CM: currently i just switch on all low-level stuff and check it with a python script
Nov 26 07:31:10 <CM> NineX: Usually very fast. But shipping might take a few days. Most people who have ordered lately seem to have gotten the phones within a week.
Nov 26 07:31:46 <CM> NineX: It seems like GTA02 is delayed a while longer.. 
Nov 26 07:31:46 <NineX> cool
Nov 26 07:32:16 <emdete> he, NineX is the first that i see that says 'cool' because gta02 is delayed :D
Nov 26 07:32:23 <NineX> CM: yes i know. i maked order for gta 01
Nov 26 07:32:42 <CM> emdete: Why is it so unreliable then? Maybe the network connection is flaky
Nov 26 07:32:51 <CM> NineX: :)
Nov 26 07:33:10 <NineX> emdete: no, "cool" cause i whana get neo as fast that possible
Nov 26 07:33:15 <mbuf> have there been any recent successful builds?
Nov 26 07:33:35 <emdete> CM: that is what i want to get out - how to confugure that stuff to get all these parts reliable working
Nov 26 07:33:43 <CM> mbuf: I built a full feed about 12h ago
Nov 26 07:34:08 <mbuf> CM, nice
Nov 26 07:34:35 <CM> emdete: I mean, maybe it's gsmd anyway, even though it doesn't handle the gprs stuff?
Nov 26 07:34:49 <CM> For some reason it seems to re-register at the network all the time
Nov 26 07:35:16 <emdete> CM: no, i deinstalled all gsmd stuff (and X11 also te get space)
Nov 26 07:35:38 <CM> But I saw mickey|zzZZzz was working on that yesterday, and tick just posted an interesting bug (#1026)
Nov 26 07:36:03 <CM> emdete: Ah, ok. But how do you register then? Just sending at commands?
Nov 26 07:36:11 <emdete> CM:  yes, shure.
Nov 26 07:36:16 <CM> :D
Nov 26 07:36:18 <emdete> in the chatscript
Nov 26 07:36:58 <emdete> because gsm07.10 is still missing i don't get signal quality after ppp anyway
Nov 26 07:43:12 <emdete> i think the gprs stuff may be solved by the right options for pppd but i don't know how to enhance the gps stuff. even if the device is laying around it sometimes just drops the connection
Nov 26 07:44:18 <CM> gps or gprs?
Nov 26 07:44:34 <emdete> gps
Nov 26 07:44:36 <CM> You mean agps via gprs? :)
Nov 26 07:44:42 <CM> *nod*
Nov 26 07:44:46 <emdete> 'connection' may be the wrong word.
Nov 26 07:45:02 <CM> Just confusing since it's almost the same acronym
Nov 26 07:45:53 <emdete> no, just gps. i have a roof-window at home. best condition. a garmin is working fine all the time. but the neo stops receiving for minutes from time to time. no cloud nothing to see why
Nov 26 07:46:11 <CM> Doesn't sound good.. :(
Nov 26 07:46:38 <emdete> myabe the chipset wasn't that good choice. i am looking for expiriences of other people...
Nov 26 07:47:35 <CM> I tried running it on saturday, but the weather was so awful I didn't go out
Nov 26 07:47:49 <emdete> ah, yes, i remember reading that ;)
Nov 26 07:47:49 <torpor> yikes
Nov 26 07:48:01 <CM> Good morning to you too :P
Nov 26 07:48:05 <torpor> heh
Nov 26 07:48:18 <torpor> whats up guys?
Nov 26 07:48:19 <emdete> i also now put it in the car while driving but  its tha same
Nov 26 07:50:52 <NineX> CM: there is a possibility to make backup form nand flash without booting system?
Nov 26 07:52:01 <CM> NineX: Yes, I Think so. Via uboot some way
Nov 26 07:52:25 <CM> NineX: But I would have to look it up to say how :)
Nov 26 07:52:29 <emdete> dfu-util should be able to read the partition also but i remember some note its broken
Nov 26 07:54:30 <torpor> you can do it in the u-boot console over usb-serial
Nov 26 07:54:41 <emdete> torpor: does it work?
Nov 26 07:57:19 <NineX> torpor: ok i will search on wiki how to do that :> i think about make backup from initial state  of nand flash before i will install snapshot :>
Nov 26 07:57:54 <emdete> NineX: initial state should be u-boot only anyway...
Nov 26 07:58:13 <emdete> NineX: mine came with a kernel but that was by mistake
Nov 26 07:59:49 <CM> NineX: But it's a good idea to do as you said
Nov 26 08:00:04 <CM> NineX: Definitely you should make a backup of your u-boot_env
Nov 26 08:00:07 <emdete> CM: why that?
Nov 26 08:00:22 <emdete> CM: ah... yes, maybe :)
Nov 26 08:00:23 <NineX> emdete: BBT
Nov 26 08:00:28 <CM> emdete: If you destroy your uboot env, like I've done, it's a pain...
Nov 26 08:00:42 <CM> NineX: Exactly :)
Nov 26 08:00:48 <emdete> CM: doesn't resolve 'factory default' that?
Nov 26 08:00:58 <emdete> bbt? 
Nov 26 08:01:17 <NineX> CM: there is a wiki page with instruction how to recreate bad block table
Nov 26 08:01:24 <NineX> emdete: Bad Block Table
Nov 26 08:03:21 <emdete> ah, okay. yes, that may be important ;)
Nov 26 08:03:28 <NineX> :>
Nov 26 08:04:49 <CM> emdete: Se bug 765
Nov 26 08:05:07 <CM> emdete: It can be rebuilt, but I need to be able to cu to uboot for that
Nov 26 08:05:21 <CM> emdete: And you can't do that when you don't have the uboot menu :(
Nov 26 08:06:29 <emdete> thats probably the cause i leave u-boot alone...
Nov 26 08:07:05 <emdete> i still have that one that was delivered - even with that bug that requires that nand erase...
Nov 26 08:07:26 <Hopscotch> good morning
Nov 26 08:07:41 <CM> emdete: Well, when i flashed my kernel the first time with the one that came with it, the kernel wrote over the uboot env
Nov 26 08:07:54 <NineX> CM: sur but with debugboard you can make u-boot workable again
Nov 26 08:07:55 <emdete> CM: wow, how that?
Nov 26 08:08:11 <CM> emdete: So it's been broken since August 3:rd for me
Nov 26 08:08:34 <CM> Don't aks me how, just noticed that when I looked in the uboot_env file there was kernel crap there
Nov 26 08:08:54 <CM> NineX: Yes, and I might get a debugboard soon :)
Nov 26 08:09:37 <emdete> phew, that's bad. i flashed a new boot splash some days ago - perhaps a dangerous task also..? hm
Nov 26 08:10:59 <NineX> CM: i will get neo advanced so... even if i broke u-boot i can repair that
Nov 26 08:11:00 <NineX> :>
Nov 26 08:11:19 <CM> emdete: No, don't think the splash can mess anything up :)
Nov 26 08:11:28 <emdete> NineX: that is the cause for gps in the neo - locate the guy with the debug board next to you ;)
Nov 26 08:11:29 <CM> NineX: I should have done that too
Nov 26 08:11:38 <CM> emdete: Hehe
Nov 26 08:11:52 <emdete> CM: i /know/ where the next one resides :D
Nov 26 08:12:05 <NineX> emdete: hehehe :>
Nov 26 08:12:07 <CM> I do too, and it's over 300km away
Nov 26 08:12:30 <emdete> CM: that's bad, its just 30 for me - where do you stay?
Nov 26 08:13:21 <tuukkah> CM, we've been able to unbrick phones by dfu-uploading a fresh u-boot_env though
Nov 26 08:13:56 <CM> tuukkah: I did that, worked a few times
Nov 26 08:14:09 <NineX> CM: i dont know anyone in Krakow (Poland) who have neo
Nov 26 08:14:40 <CM> NineX: Ah, Krakow is a nice town, I've been there. Even walked up to that hill a bit west of the city
Nov 26 08:15:06 <CM> NineX: hrw is in Poland and has a debugboard. yoyo is also there
Nov 26 08:15:24 <NineX> CM: so i will be third ;)
Nov 26 08:16:01 <Mononoke>  \o/ Poland strong but not that tasty beer
Nov 26 08:16:35 <NineX> Mononoke: try tyskie!
Nov 26 08:16:56 <NineX> Mononoke: isn't very strong but is tasty!
Nov 26 08:16:58 <NineX> :>
Nov 26 08:17:03 <CM> NineX: I was in Gdansk a few weeks ago too :)
Nov 26 08:17:32 <tuukkah> CM, right, so is it perhaps that it doesn't actually work in cases where there actually are some bad blocks
Nov 26 08:17:46 <NineX> CM: next time when you will go into Krakow , let me know, we will drink couple bears :>
Nov 26 08:19:55 <CM> NineX: Hehe, surely :)
Nov 26 08:22:11 <hrw> hi
Nov 26 08:22:25 <hrw> NineX: I do not know about anyone in Kraków with debug board
Nov 26 08:22:46 <hrw> NineX: Poznań, Warszawa, Opole(iirc) 
Nov 26 08:23:26 <NineX> hrw: sow when my package will arrive , wi will tell you to add krakow into that list
Nov 26 08:33:19 <torpor> i'm in vienna
Nov 26 08:33:46 <torpor> and as long as there is no bear drinking involved, i'd be happy to help anyone debug their neo's .. we have two debug boards here in the metalab-OpenMoko crew ..
Nov 26 08:38:19 <NineX> :>
Nov 26 08:38:41 <NineX> neo 1973 users united :>
Nov 26 08:42:39 <doc|home> people drink bear?
Nov 26 08:42:40 <doc|home> weird
Nov 26 08:50:21 <NineX> damn
Nov 26 08:50:30 <NineX> my bank refused transaction :S
Nov 26 08:57:49 <zash> holy fucking crap ass, i just calculated how mutch 1 MB of data trough sms would cost
Nov 26 08:58:35 <emdete> zash: :D depends on your tariff....
Nov 26 08:58:57 <zash> well i have 0.69 SEK / SMS
Nov 26 08:59:23 <zash> and 1 MB would be like ~5k SEK
Nov 26 08:59:28 <daMaestro> yuck
Nov 26 08:59:45 <emdete> zash: wow - for 160 chars - don't know if that allows all values of bytes...
Nov 26 08:59:48 <CM> zash: Lol
Nov 26 08:59:56 <zash> 140 bytes
Nov 26 09:00:13 <emdete> zash: thnx :)
Nov 26 09:00:41 <zash> 140 bytes or 160 7-bit chars
Nov 26 09:01:43 <CM> zash: Should make an rfc for tcp/ip via sms, like http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc1149.txt
Nov 26 09:02:08 <ixian_probe> zash: I think I saw an calculation/guesstimate on the profitmargin for sms. It was around 10.000% ^_^
Nov 26 09:02:18 <zash> hehe
Nov 26 09:02:39 <zash> CM: no, we should make something for sms over grps
Nov 26 09:02:55 <CM> zash: Naa.. That would be practical! :P
Nov 26 09:03:11 <CM> zash: Just some jabber messaging would work :9
Nov 26 09:03:24 <emdete> sms over gprs is existing... 
Nov 26 09:03:25 <zash> jabber ftw ;)
Nov 26 09:03:47 <ixian_probe> I want.. no DEMAND an Carrier Pidgeon interface on the GTAV02 ^_^
Nov 26 09:04:02 <ixian_probe> that would be practical
Nov 26 09:04:09 <ixian_probe> ^_^
Nov 26 09:04:31 <emdete> here some people have sms-flat - would be nice to provide them ip for free ;)
Nov 26 09:05:04 <ixian_probe> *poff* gone
Nov 26 09:05:52 <CIA-14> 03tick * r3510 10/trunk/src/target/gsm/src/gsmd/sms_cb.c: [gsmd] to fix on reading a SMS with alpha value. (Erin Yueh)
Nov 26 09:06:19 <gi-el> hm, the gsmd2 spec looks promising
Nov 26 09:07:09 <emdete> gi-el: where can i read aboutnit?
Nov 26 09:07:35 <gi-el> http://ip.fi/~mudyc/projects/ixonos/tech-spec-gsm-daemon.pdf
Nov 26 09:07:51 <gi-el> i read about it here: http://informationhunger.blogspot.com/2007/11/openmoko-is-growing.html
Nov 26 09:08:00 <gi-el> bottom of the articel
Nov 26 09:08:02 <CM> There's a link to a google doc of gsmd in bug 1026 :)
Nov 26 09:08:10 <gi-el> s/el/le/
Nov 26 09:08:11 <apt> gi-el meant: bottom of the article
Nov 26 09:12:25 <emdete> hm, at least it uses dbus..
Nov 26 09:14:05 <gi-el> i've only scanned through it, but i think from a software architecture point of view the document is a nice start... i'll have to read it better tho
Nov 26 09:18:57 <emdete> gi-el: at least it's documented, for gsmd not even a state diagram exists
Nov 26 09:27:29 <mbuf> gi-el, doc says company confidential
Nov 26 09:31:00 <gi-el> mbuf: i know
Nov 26 09:31:18 <mbuf> gi-el, ok
Nov 26 09:33:49 <gi-el> mbuf: it's not my document anyway :)
Nov 26 09:44:12 <mudyc> gi-el: i was doing a snaptshot too fast. the company confidental is just the default restriction level for all documents in public listed company
Nov 26 09:45:24 <zash> has anyone tried to get om onto a htc touch dual?
Nov 26 09:47:13 <CM> mudyc: I'd say it's good to get it out fast and not perfect, instead of too late but polished :)
Nov 26 10:00:22 <edistar> hi
Nov 26 10:09:40 <NineX> damn, i hope that my bank will not refuse transaction again
Nov 26 11:08:59 <NineX> re
Nov 26 12:11:51 * ScaredyCat pokes borg_
Nov 26 12:12:16 <ScaredyCat> borg_: ping
Nov 26 12:12:18 <ScaredyCat> even
Nov 26 12:15:12 <NineX> i will never again drink czech vodka :S my head is broken slightly
Nov 26 12:21:50 <borg_> ScaredyCat: pong
Nov 26 12:27:50 <ScaredyCat> borg_: did you se mickey|zzZZzz's email ?
Nov 26 12:28:28 <borg_> the one that said that he applied the neod changes?
Nov 26 12:28:30 <borg_> yes
Nov 26 12:29:09 <ScaredyCat> and that it would appear in the next snapshot...
Nov 26 12:29:15 <borg_> :)
Nov 26 12:29:26 <ScaredyCat> imho it should be added to svn :D
Nov 26 12:29:31 <borg_> it is in svn
Nov 26 12:29:43 <ScaredyCat> :O
Nov 26 12:29:48 <ScaredyCat> your app ?
Nov 26 12:29:51 <borg_> yes
Nov 26 12:29:54 <ScaredyCat> make update
Nov 26 12:29:57 <ScaredyCat> erm
Nov 26 12:30:02 <borg_> wrong window ;)
Nov 26 12:30:24 <zash> ScaredyCat: xterms all over?
Nov 26 12:30:44 <borg_> 02:43 < CIA-14> mickey * r3509 /trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/daemons/neod/ (9 files in 3 dirs): neod: add display locking, code by Olaf Lüke, artwork by 'IfChinsCouldKill'
Nov 26 12:30:49 <ScaredyCat> too many xterms, too many screens and too many pc's :(
Nov 26 12:31:53 <zash> xterm > gnome-terminal
Nov 26 12:32:36 <borg_> i need tabs :)
Nov 26 12:32:57 <roh> *mmmmh* .. my lenovo fan sirrs again
Nov 26 12:32:59 <ScaredyCat> it doesn't help having auto raise on windows
Nov 26 12:33:04 <gi-el> i already have workspaces
Nov 26 12:33:06 <gi-el> fuck tabx
Nov 26 12:33:13 <zash> borg_: just open more xterms
Nov 26 12:33:14 <gi-el> s/x/s/
Nov 26 12:33:14 <apt> gi-el meant: fuck tabs
Nov 26 12:33:35 * zash has alt + § for opening more xterms
Nov 26 12:34:03 <borg_> then my desktop gets so messy
Nov 26 12:34:18 <gi-el> use a window manager that actually manages your windows!
Nov 26 12:34:34 * edistar_ likes xterm more than gnome-terminal, otherwise all these gnome libs get loaded
Nov 26 12:34:38 <zash> borg_: try wmii
Nov 26 12:34:59 <gi-el> http://giel.operation0.org/desktop-20070726.png
Nov 26 12:35:00 <gi-el> like that
Nov 26 12:35:14 <gi-el> 4 terms per workspace, as many workspaces as i need ;)
Nov 26 12:35:15 <borg_> thats only 4 terminals
Nov 26 12:35:53 <borg_> if i make 4 terminals per workspace, i have to search for a terminal through all workspaces
Nov 26 12:35:53 <gi-el> borg_: you can see in the lower left corner that there are 5 workspaces at that moment
Nov 26 12:35:56 <borg_> bad :)
Nov 26 12:36:13 <edistar_> gi-el: which wm?
Nov 26 12:36:41 <edistar_> gi-el: I use fluxbox, easy one ;)
Nov 26 12:39:05 <borg_> i am using this method for pragramming however
Nov 26 12:39:05 <borg_> with lots of gvim instances
Nov 26 12:39:05 <borg_> s/pragramming/programming/
Nov 26 12:41:59 <edistar_> gi-el: what music app are you using?
Nov 26 12:46:36 <borg_> "NOTE: Before you start on something new, please consider helping us in the new tinyhal initiative."
Nov 26 12:46:39 <borg_> what is tinyhal?
Nov 26 12:46:45 <borg_> cant find anything about it
Nov 26 12:48:46 <ruskie> sounds like hal but minimized
Nov 26 12:49:04 <borg_> yes
Nov 26 12:49:06 <ruskie> might actually be usable for desktops as well if it's not pywritten
Nov 26 12:49:12 <gi-el> edistar_: thats ncmpc connected to mpd
Nov 26 12:49:29 <edistar_> ah, ok
Nov 26 12:50:39 <gi-el> gah. editing specs is boring work
Nov 26 12:50:43 <gi-el> stupid etsi editing rules
Nov 26 12:50:52 <gi-el> </complain>
Nov 26 12:51:11 <hdr> would somebody kill me, if i asked for launch of GTA02? still december or later? ;)
Nov 26 12:51:34 <edistar_> hdr: very probably later
Nov 26 12:51:44 <grma> hi
Nov 26 12:51:56 <gi-el> hdr: there's someone at the door. it's the neo assassination squad :)
Nov 26 12:52:22 <hdr> gi-el: not yet :P
Nov 26 12:53:35 <fursund> damn no GTA02 under the christmas tree... :)
Nov 26 12:54:20 <Sup3rkiddo> hi all
Nov 26 12:55:01 <Sup3rkiddo> ...gr..i said hi
Nov 26 12:55:36 <Sup3rkiddo> bah
Nov 26 12:58:53 <hdr> .. trying to compile qemu with gcc4
Nov 26 13:00:35 <Sup3rkiddo> i thought qemu needs gcc3
Nov 26 13:01:54 <hdr> Sup3rkiddo: so i _try_ ;)
Nov 26 13:02:07 <hdr> ok
Nov 26 13:03:02 <Sup3rkiddo> hdr: i pledge my property if it compiles
Nov 26 13:04:00 <hdr> Sup3rkiddo: oh it looks bad for you
Nov 26 13:04:15 <hdr> make done ;)
Nov 26 13:04:58 <Sup3rkiddo> hdr: :O, really? which gcc4.1.2?
Nov 26 13:05:13 <hdr> gcc-Version 4.1.2 (Gentoo 4.1.2)
Nov 26 13:05:30 <Sup3rkiddo> yay gentoo here as well
Nov 26 13:05:36 <hdr> ;)
Nov 26 13:06:10 <hdr> openmoko/download.sh failed ^^ no lynx installed ;)
Nov 26 13:06:18 <Sup3rkiddo> emerge lynx
Nov 26 13:06:32 <hdr> done
Nov 26 13:07:17 <hdr> U-boot failed to finish writing in 300 seconds, giving up.
Nov 26 13:07:58 <hdr> openmoko/flash.sh: line 91: 17532 Speicherzugriffsfehler  $qemu -mtdblock "$script_dir/$flash_base" -kernel "$script_dir/$1" -serial stdio -nographic -usb -monitor null 0<&0
Nov 26 13:08:01 <fursund> isn't that the export failure?
Nov 26 13:08:11 <hdr> maybe i has to use gcc3 for qemu
Nov 26 13:08:15 <hdr> *have
Nov 26 13:08:26 <fursund> maybe not
Nov 26 13:10:11 <roh> you have. qemu's dyngen needs gcc3 since it depends on the binary-lkayout
Nov 26 13:10:30 <roh> gcc4 miscompiles that sections somehow
Nov 26 13:11:40 <hdr> hm i don't get Sup3rkiddo 's property?
Nov 26 13:12:00 <Sup3rkiddo> torpor: :O. new one?!, anyway please do post a step-by-step writeup somewhere in the wiki, my ESP senses a brick
Nov 26 13:12:17 <Sup3rkiddo> yay netsplit
Nov 26 13:13:40 <torpor> you bricked, Sup3rkiddo ?
Nov 26 13:14:33 <Sup3rkiddo> torpor: no not yet, just an uneasy feeling, it going to :P, 
Nov 26 13:14:51 <torpor> brr..
Nov 26 13:15:23 <Sup3rkiddo> but a good howto should really help
Nov 26 13:15:34 <torpor> thing is, its not something i wanna think about right now! :)
Nov 26 13:16:24 <Sup3rkiddo> haha
Nov 26 13:27:16 <CM> zecke|zZzzzZzzzz: No more flue? :)
Nov 26 13:30:20 <zecke|zZzzzZzzzz> CM: I just woke up need to do the flu test but I probably still have it
Nov 26 13:32:29 <CM> Sucks.. :-/
Nov 26 14:01:19 <borg_> ScaredyCat: did the update work?
Nov 26 14:02:25 <ScaredyCat> ya
Nov 26 14:02:32 <borg_> nice
Nov 26 14:02:33 <ScaredyCat> just building all my images
Nov 26 14:02:37 <borg_> :)
Nov 26 14:02:43 <ScaredyCat> will flash my neo soon
Nov 26 14:02:46 <ScaredyCat> and test :D
Nov 26 14:02:59 <ScaredyCat> i presume there's no config app 
Nov 26 14:03:00 <ScaredyCat> ?
Nov 26 14:03:07 <emdete> ScaredyCat: do you have a new one from the famous ScaredyCat images?
Nov 26 14:03:55 <ScaredyCat> just making them emdete
Nov 26 14:04:07 <ScaredyCat> but I like to test them too
Nov 26 14:04:58 <emdete> in the last image i tried /etc/resolv.conf is a file, not a symlink to where ppp needs it...
Nov 26 14:07:15 <ScaredyCat> I've removed it completely for newer images, since when you plug in usb it creates it... 
Nov 26 14:07:23 <ScaredyCat> the smae should be happening for ppp
Nov 26 14:07:45 <emdete> have you tested that? ppp needs it in /var...
Nov 26 14:08:03 <emdete> s/in/point to/
Nov 26 14:08:03 <apt> emdete meant: have you tested that? ppp needs it point to /var...
Nov 26 14:08:33 <emdete> which script creates it for usb0?
Nov 26 14:09:26 <ScaredyCat> hrrrmmmmmm.....
Nov 26 14:10:57 <CIA-14> 03sameo * r3511 10/developers/sameo/ (11 files in 3 dirs): 
Nov 26 14:10:57 <CIA-14> ar6k-atheros: Initial commit, against 1.1 target FW.
Nov 26 14:10:57 <CIA-14> With this patch series, we should be able to send our first probe
Nov 26 14:10:57 <CIA-14> request, although a bogus one. Wireless-tools command work as well.
Nov 26 14:17:09 <emdete> ScaredyCat: ?
Nov 26 14:20:07 <ScaredyCat> sorry, distracted by work
Nov 26 14:20:08 <ScaredyCat> :)
Nov 26 14:20:35 <emdete> yees, work is evil
Nov 26 14:21:15 <emdete> so ifupdown now accept a nameserver in /etc/network/interfaces?
Nov 26 14:24:02 <Sup3rkiddo> did i see atheros in the last commit
Nov 26 14:36:13 <Ghiottone|work> hi all
Nov 26 14:36:42 <Ghiottone|work> I need the sources for the old OABI version of glibc. where can I find them?
Nov 26 14:37:42 <emdete> Ghiottone|work: isn't the source the same but differently compiled for oabi?
Nov 26 14:45:14 <torpor> anyone gotten abiword running?
Nov 26 14:45:18 * arw1 hello people
Nov 26 14:45:40 <CM> torpor: I think i saw that a long time ago, like in august
Nov 26 14:45:48 <CM> So yes :)
Nov 26 14:46:00 <torpor> but is it working now?
Nov 26 14:46:03 <torpor> i will find out
Nov 26 14:46:28 <torpor> the reason i want to know is coz i'm working on an app that uses librsvg right now and its not working
Nov 26 14:46:44 <CM> Ah, ok. Don't know if it works now
Nov 26 14:48:40 <torpor> okay it looks like its in the aengstrom distro .. 
Nov 26 14:48:52 <torpor> how safe is it to add aestrom to the current image sources list?
Nov 26 14:51:39 <mwester> torpor:  OpenMoko is an Angstrom-based distro.
Nov 26 14:51:51 <torpor> so i can just add aengstrom to /etc/ipkg and away i go, right
Nov 26 14:52:04 <mwester> No, angstrom is a distro, not a package.
Nov 26 14:52:15 <torpor> i mean, sure i know that openmoko is based on aengstrom .. this doens't mean the repo's are safe against eac other..
Nov 26 14:52:25 <mwester> That's like saying "I'll just add Debian to an RPM, and install it on my Fedora system"
Nov 26 14:52:39 <torpor> what i mean is, can i add the angstrom feedto my openmoko sources list, and install apps from it safely?
Nov 26 14:53:14 <torpor> mwester: actually i don't think it is at all like saying that.  aren't aengstrom and openmoko using .ipk's for distribution?
Nov 26 14:53:55 <mwester> Ok, perhaps a better analogy would be that Angstrom vs Openmoko would be like i686 vs i386 on two different distros that both use RPMs.
Nov 26 14:54:18 <mwester> You really should build it from source, if it works from the Angstrom feed, it's just good fortune, I think.
Nov 26 14:54:18 <torpor> so i can't use angstrom ipk's on an openmoko image?
Nov 26 14:54:36 <torpor> so the feed can be used, but there's a possible problem?
Nov 26 14:55:19 <CM> Isn't abiword in the full openmoko feed?
Nov 26 14:55:25 <torpor> i don't see it.
Nov 26 14:55:35 <CM> ScaredyCat: You have it?
Nov 26 14:56:02 <haakeyar> torpor: See planet.openmoko.org, quite far down. "This image will give you all the features from the openmoko image (since openmoko is a rebranded angstrom) plus it gives you access to the awesome Ångström package repository!."
Nov 26 14:56:11 <torpor> meh!
Nov 26 14:56:13 <haakeyar> So, apparently it should work.
Nov 26 14:56:24 <torpor> i don't wanna change the image i'm booting - i want to keep booting the main moko one ..
Nov 26 14:56:46 <torpor> but okay i'll check out that image and see if there's anything obvious in it .. thanks!
Nov 26 14:57:01 <mwester> torpor:  try it.  
Nov 26 15:01:31 <Ghiottone|work> hey CM
Nov 26 15:01:53 <Ghiottone|work> emdete that is what I'd like to know. I'm refering to the gllin chroot libraries
Nov 26 15:02:22 <CM> Ghiottone|work: You want the wrapper or the source? :)
Nov 26 15:02:29 <CM> Ghiottone|work: And hello too :)
Nov 26 15:02:43 <torpor> a gllin pkg is badly needed!
Nov 26 15:03:03 <torpor> even if its 'illegal to distribute', it should just be done by someone so that it 'just plain works' and can go in the tree when permission is given ..
Nov 26 15:03:38 <Ghiottone|work> CM I need the sources of the OABI glibc. well, not directly me but the developer of elf statifier needs it
Nov 26 15:04:16 <Ghiottone|work> torpor yeah that's why I'm working with the developer to port statifier to the moko
Nov 26 15:04:30 <torpor> oh statifier, i see .. 
Nov 26 15:04:33 <torpor> that would make it easy
Nov 26 15:05:42 <CM> Ghiottone|work: The sources are the same, OABI or EABI is just the compilation, as emdete said :)
Nov 26 15:06:50 <Ghiottone|work> which version of glibc is it? is there a way I can ask mokomakefile to build the oabi one (so that I have the right workdir with all the patches applied?)
Nov 26 15:09:02 <debortol> as
Nov 26 15:09:55 <CM> Ghiottone|work: I think you can still switch to the 2007.1 profile in the makefile
Nov 26 15:10:18 <balrog-kun> Ghiottone|work: no matter which version, there are no separate OABI or EABI sources
Nov 26 15:10:31 <emdete> Ghiottone|work: you may download those... there is a link in the wiki from where
Nov 26 15:10:39 <balrog-kun> you can build OABI even without switching i believe
Nov 26 15:11:54 <emdete> Ghiottone|work: http://www.openmoko.org.pl/node/55 - easier than re-building ;)
Nov 26 15:15:23 <CIA-14> 03chris * r3512 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-dialer2/ (4 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed)
Nov 26 15:15:23 <CIA-14> * src/phone-kit/moko-dialer-mcc-dc.h:
Nov 26 15:15:23 <CIA-14> Replace "+1-" with "+1"
Nov 26 15:15:23 <CIA-14> * src/phone-kit/moko-dialer.c: (on_network_registered),
Nov 26 15:15:25 <CIA-14> (start_handling_sms), (net_msghandler), (pb_msghandler),
Nov 26 15:15:27 <CIA-14> (sms_store_opened_cb), (dialer_init_gsmd),
Nov 26 15:15:29 <CIA-14> (moko_dialer_check_gsmd), (moko_dialer_send_sms):
Nov 26 15:16:00 <Ghiottone|work> mmm ok thanks. I'll try having him look at the sources in my work dir. if they don't match I'll try rebuilding the 2007.1 version.
Nov 26 15:16:09 <Ghiottone|work> emdete on that article there are only binaries
Nov 26 15:17:12 <emdete> Ghiottone|work: exaclty what i ment: no need to compile
Nov 26 15:17:39 <emdete> Ghiottone|work: or did you want to build a complete image in oabi?
Nov 26 15:17:42 <CIA-14> 03mickey * r3513 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/panel-plugins/openmoko-panel-gsm/ (ChangeLog src/openmoko-panel-gsm.c): openmoko-panel-gsm: Fix crash on signal strength == 99 (applet != applet->mokoapplet)
Nov 26 15:18:30 <CM> :)
Nov 26 15:18:31 <Ghiottone|work> emdete no he just needed to look at the sources
Nov 26 15:24:16 <Writchie> http://xkcd.com/
Nov 26 15:26:48 <CM> Writchie: http://xkcd.com/atom.xml  ;)
Nov 26 15:28:40 <lysanderslair> ou 9
Nov 26 15:28:41 <abraxa_> I don't get the last panel :(
Nov 26 15:28:49 <abraxa_> Why are they swimming suddenly?
Nov 26 15:28:53 <lysanderslair> sorry wrong channel
Nov 26 15:29:45 <Writchie> abraxa_: its now down to surviving!
Nov 26 15:30:23 <abraxa_> Oh, heh
Nov 26 15:30:34 <abraxa_> I'll never touch *BSD then ;)
Nov 26 15:30:53 <CM> Hehe.. The title texts are always great :)
Nov 26 15:31:31 <Writchie> substitute OM for BSD ;)
Nov 26 15:32:09 <abraxa_> Hey! OM is not *that* bad ;)
Nov 26 15:32:22 <abraxa_> (it'll be piranhas, not sharks)
Nov 26 15:32:37 <zash> hm, i know! i could install om on my laptop and use it as a giant phone!
Nov 26 15:33:10 <CM> Does it even build for x86? 
Nov 26 15:33:42 <CM> I tried several times this summer, but I never managed to complete a build
Nov 26 15:34:18 <zash> :(
Nov 26 15:34:54 <zash> if you culd compile for x86, would it be faster when running some emulator?
Nov 26 15:35:09 <zash> without emulating ARM
Nov 26 15:35:51 <Writchie> yes
Nov 26 15:35:57 <SpeedEvil> vastly
Nov 26 15:36:09 <SpeedEvil> hundreds of times the speed in some cases
Nov 26 15:36:45 <Writchie> overall, i'd say the neo is roughly a P100 with a crappy video card - more or less.
Nov 26 15:36:53 <SpeedEvil> pretty much
Nov 26 15:37:10 <SpeedEvil> much faster sequential RAM access
Nov 26 15:37:17 <SpeedEvil> but much slower FP
Nov 26 15:37:22 <SpeedEvil> so it's generally a wash
Nov 26 15:37:28 <balrog-kun> much more ram than you had in P100 times
Nov 26 15:37:30 <Writchie> some things can be very fast
Nov 26 15:37:55 <Writchie> yes - more ram than we really need - but we'll fill it up for sure
Nov 26 15:38:14 <CM> Writchie: Yeah, like depleting the battery is very fast.. :P
Nov 26 15:38:17 <Writchie> 128 RAM with 64MB nand is a little unbalanced
Nov 26 15:38:33 <Writchie> CM: ROTFLMAO
Nov 26 15:39:45 <zash> wp - "Because of their power saving features, ARM CPUs are dominant in the mobile electronics market"
Nov 26 15:39:48 * abraxa_ re-attaches Writchie's butt
Nov 26 15:40:00 <zash> CM: you seem to not agree to that ;)
Nov 26 15:40:29 <Writchie> zash: yes ARM is mobile king
Nov 26 15:40:35 <_buz> x86 would suck even more juice
Nov 26 15:40:58 <Writchie> zash: if you don't screw up the overall system design
Nov 26 15:41:26 <loufoque> Writchie: it's much faster than a P100
Nov 26 15:41:32 <mwester> zash:  ;) :D OM demonstrates that it is possible to take a porsche engine, and make a Chevy Nova from it.
Nov 26 15:41:33 <loufoque> more like a P2 400
Nov 26 15:41:55 <mwester> Except without any FP
Nov 26 15:42:19 <_buz> mwester: you had any doubts on that?
Nov 26 15:42:38 <_buz> i'd be a lot more shocked if someone did the opposite
Nov 26 15:42:44 <mwester> _buz:  :P  No, but I didn't figure anyone would leave it that way for so long!
Nov 26 15:43:43 <CM> Hehe
Nov 26 15:45:49 <_buz> maybe we should rename it from openmoko to opennova (pun only works in spanish)
Nov 26 15:46:41 <ScaredyCat> borg_: mmm didn;t get included..
Nov 26 15:47:38 <CM> ScaredyCat: Locked src_rev of neod?
Nov 26 15:48:06 * ScaredyCat mutters about applying stuff and not bumping src_rev
Nov 26 15:49:39 <borg_> ScaredyCat: ah ok, same happend here
Nov 26 15:50:21 <borg_> i thought i demolished my neo_svn.bb file somehow
Nov 26 15:50:54 <hdr> can you wirte a sms with openmoko yet?
Nov 26 15:51:30 <_buz> if you're quick enough
Nov 26 15:51:33 <borg_> depends on what you understand among "write"
Nov 26 15:51:57 <hdr> like with an normal mobile phone
Nov 26 15:52:04 <borg_> no
Nov 26 15:52:09 <borg_> there is no gui for it
Nov 26 15:52:26 <hdr> but it's coming?
Nov 26 15:52:31 <borg_> yes
Nov 26 15:52:35 <borg_> openmoko-messages2
Nov 26 15:52:40 <borg_> you can compile and test it already
Nov 26 15:52:50 <borg_> dont know if it actually sends something now
Nov 26 15:53:00 <hdr> k thx
Nov 26 16:01:24 <borg_> ScaredyCat: where do i have to change the src_rev?
Nov 26 16:01:31 <borg_> in neod_svn.bb?
Nov 26 16:03:02 <abraxa_> borg_: openembedded/conf/distro/include/sane-srcrevs.inc
Nov 26 16:03:20 <ScaredyCat> sorry, yes what abraxa_ said
Nov 26 16:03:38 <borg_> ah
Nov 26 16:03:42 <borg_> i thx
Nov 26 16:04:37 <ScaredyCat> bascially, it wasn't your fault :)
Nov 26 16:11:09 <CIA-14> 03chris * r3514 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-messages2/ (5 files in 2 dirs): 
Nov 26 16:11:09 <CIA-14> * src/sms-compose.c: (page_shown):
Nov 26 16:11:09 <CIA-14> * src/sms-notes.c: (page_shown):
Nov 26 16:11:09 <CIA-14> * src/sms-utils.c: (sms_get_selected_contact):
Nov 26 16:11:09 <CIA-14> * src/sms-utils.h:
Nov 26 16:11:09 <CIA-14> Fix leak in function to get selected contact
Nov 26 16:16:16 <ScaredyCat> well it might be :)
Nov 26 16:21:53 <CIA-14> 03chris * r3515 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-messages2/ (5 files in 2 dirs): 
Nov 26 16:21:53 <CIA-14> * src/sms-compose.c: (page_shown):
Nov 26 16:21:53 <CIA-14> * src/sms-notes.c: (page_shown):
Nov 26 16:21:53 <CIA-14> * src/sms-utils.c: (sms_get_selected_contact):
Nov 26 16:21:53 <CIA-14> * src/sms-utils.h:
Nov 26 16:21:53 <CIA-14> Fix contacts without avatars not getting the stock_person icon
Nov 26 16:24:01 <cdbot2> * * OM Bug 1028 has been created by mickey(AT)vanille-media.de
Nov 26 16:24:02 <cdbot2> * * PIN dialog appears multiple times
Nov 26 16:24:03 <cdbot2> * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1028
Nov 26 16:34:14 <ifchinscouldkill> Borg: Your Wiki download images are a bit messed up in http://homepages.upb.de/olaf/dinge/openmoko/display_lock/moko_choice/ they look like the puzzle ones (at least behind my companys proxy...)
Nov 26 16:35:02 <borg_> ifchinscouldkill: damn, you are right ;)
Nov 26 16:37:15 <borg_> ifchinscouldkill: it is fixed
Nov 26 16:38:22 <ifchinscouldkill> hehe 
Nov 26 16:38:58 <borg_> mickeyl: can you adjust the srcrevs in sane-srcrevs.inc too?
Nov 26 16:39:10 <borg_> for neod
Nov 26 16:40:37 <mickeyl> yes, I'll bump all that once i have released the snapshot. i can't push anything in between
Nov 26 16:40:50 <borg_> ah ok
Nov 26 16:40:52 <borg_> i see :)
Nov 26 16:41:51 <ScaredyCat> borg_: just uploading it in my images :)
Nov 26 16:42:08 <borg_> ScaredyCat: nice :)
Nov 26 16:45:15 <tuukkah> my phone screen took some permanent damage from the headset clip :-(
Nov 26 16:45:43 <dcordes> ~lart headset
Nov 26 16:45:44 * apt does a little 'dpkg -P headset' action
Nov 26 16:46:08 <tuukkah> lol
Nov 26 16:46:34 <tuukkah> dcordes, what's the alternative?
Nov 26 16:47:54 <abraxa__> tuukkah: What kind of damage?
Nov 26 16:48:07 * oppiz want a damn phone!
Nov 26 16:48:43 <tuukkah> abraxa_, a sharp corner punched a scratch on it
Nov 26 16:49:02 <abraxa_> Oh boo...
Nov 26 16:51:39 <tuukkah> abraxa_, yeah, no blood =)
Nov 26 16:55:37 <ScaredyCat> borg_:  default is the puzzle?
Nov 26 16:57:59 <borg_> ScaredyCat: yes, mickeyl says the other one is to offensive for the official repo
Nov 26 16:58:08 <borg_> but you can put what ever you want in yours of course :)
Nov 26 16:58:41 <ScaredyCat> wtf
Nov 26 16:58:59 * ScaredyCat puts a picture of Google ass fucking opensource....
Nov 26 16:59:04 <borg_> =)
Nov 26 17:01:00 <Stephmw> ScaredyCat: new announcement?
Nov 26 17:02:13 <mickeyl> ideally i like something in between
Nov 26 17:02:29 <mickeyl> puzzle is cool, but che guevara is much prettier
Nov 26 17:03:31 <ScaredyCat> why is it offensive though?
Nov 26 17:03:41 <tuukkah> perhaps a competition for artists?
Nov 26 17:04:31 <ScaredyCat> fic are making a statement with the openness of the device, why not follow that on the device?
Nov 26 17:04:51 <tuukkah> perhaps it just needs to be more subtle
Nov 26 17:05:04 <mickeyl> it looks too much guerillia
Nov 26 17:05:09 <SpeedEvil> what is this contriversial picture?
Nov 26 17:05:26 <borg_> mickeyl: can you give me some information about tinyhal? i cant find any.
Nov 26 17:06:24 <mickeyl> borg_: i'm going to blog about it later today. it's part of a collaboration between most people who worked on low level daemons for OE-supported devices in the past
Nov 26 17:06:28 <ScaredyCat> SpeedEvil: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Display_Locker
Nov 26 17:06:38 <mickeyl> borg_: the timing is good. we are just about to start with it
Nov 26 17:06:40 <CM> Interesting :)
Nov 26 17:06:58 <ScaredyCat> the midle one
Nov 26 17:07:00 <ScaredyCat> middle
Nov 26 17:07:00 <borg_> mickeyl: i intend to allow applications to say to phoned that e.g. the brightness shouldnt be reduced for a certain amount of time
Nov 26 17:07:03 <borg_> and things like that
Nov 26 17:07:20 <borg_> dont know if this belongs in a hal?
Nov 26 17:07:20 <mickeyl> borg_: i think this is out of scope. we should really use OHM for that
Nov 26 17:07:29 <mickeyl> and make tinyhal speak the same dbus interface as HAL to OHM
Nov 26 17:07:34 <mickeyl> OHM is exactly about these policy things
Nov 26 17:07:39 <mickeyl> and has Nokia behind
Nov 26 17:07:48 <PP|Spydon> What exactly is 3D Accelerometers? :P
Nov 26 17:07:49 <borg_> ok
Nov 26 17:07:58 <borg_> mickeyl: we have to get some interface for applications for that
Nov 26 17:08:06 <SpeedEvil> PP|Spydon: see [[Technical:Accelerometer]] on teh wiki
Nov 26 17:08:07 <borg_> there is everyday someone asking here for it
Nov 26 17:08:09 <josch> CM, what for is gsmd2? will it replace gsmd?
Nov 26 17:08:15 <borg_> watching /dev/event* is so bad...
Nov 26 17:08:18 <PP|Spydon> okay, SpeedEvil 
Nov 26 17:08:19 <mickeyl> borg_: yep. i'm going to blog about it tonite and then i hope we can all work together on freesmartphone.org
Nov 26 17:08:21 <SpeedEvil> PP|Spydon: basically they tell the phone where down is
Nov 26 17:08:28 <PP|Spydon> nice ^^
Nov 26 17:08:38 <CM> josch: It's a suggested replacement, up for discussion. Ask mudyc or fatal- :)
Nov 26 17:09:06 <CM> josch: Or mickeyl of course ;)
Nov 26 17:09:50 <josch> guys like Sup3rkiddo are working on a python gsmd binding - I'm worried this will be rendered useless if gsmd will be replaced?
Nov 26 17:10:39 <CM> josch: It might anyway, if you have a good dbus interface. Or?
Nov 26 17:11:40 <abraxa_> josch: It will be unnecessary in the long run but until then we at least *have* something :)
Nov 26 17:12:16 <Writchie> mickeyl: who is behind FreeSmartPhone.org
Nov 26 17:13:28 <mickeyl> Writchie: me, nils and florian from gpe(phone), and probably soon the lot trying to get HTC devices, Zaurus devices, etc. running
Nov 26 17:13:55 <mickeyl> we have implemented half a dozen of device daemons throughout the years
Nov 26 17:13:55 <Writchie> it sounds like a great idea - but why restricted to X?
Nov 26 17:14:16 <mickeyl> and now the time is good to just do one... and do it right
Nov 26 17:14:17 <mickeyl> oh right
Nov 26 17:14:19 <mickeyl> i should remove that
Nov 26 17:14:44 <Writchie> i think this layer ought to be neutral WRT what's above
Nov 26 17:14:55 <mickeyl> done
Nov 26 17:24:31 <Writchie> mickeyl: confirmation e-mail doesn't seem to be working - or is incredibly slow
Nov 26 17:24:47 <borg_> mickeyl: i can confirm this :)
Nov 26 17:24:51 <borg_> havent got one either
Nov 26 17:26:23 <mickeyl> wiki confirmation?
Nov 26 17:26:42 <Writchie> on preferences page
Nov 26 17:26:59 <mickeyl> ah
Nov 26 17:27:02 <mickeyl> there goes my admin skillz
Nov 26 17:27:09 <mickeyl> let me check the logs
Nov 26 17:27:09 <Writchie> ;)
Nov 26 17:27:23 <Writchie> don't you test in a VM first?
Nov 26 17:27:27 <mickeyl> no time :/
Nov 26 17:27:44 <mickeyl> i just did because it think now it's a super important time to do it
Nov 26 17:27:52 <Writchie> yes
Nov 26 17:28:07 <Writchie> legacies are being created way too fast
Nov 26 17:28:51 * CM fans mickeyl with a big palm leaf and hands him an ice cold Leffe so that he doesn't burn out.
Nov 26 17:28:59 <mickeyl> :))
Nov 26 17:29:01 <mickeyl> no worries
Nov 26 17:29:02 <mickeyl> thanks
Nov 26 17:29:06 <CM> ;)
Nov 26 17:29:24 <mickeyl> actually I just try to move to some less hours for paid OM work
Nov 26 17:29:34 <mickeyl> to get more time free for other things
Nov 26 17:29:42 <CM> Sounds good
Nov 26 17:30:56 <CM> Pleasant post from LaF0rge too :)
Nov 26 17:31:00 <cdbot2> * * OM Bug 1029 has been created by andrew.paulsen(AT)packetdigital.com
Nov 26 17:31:01 <cdbot2> * * Progress bar animation
Nov 26 17:31:03 <cdbot2> * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1029
Nov 26 17:31:30 <mickeyl> i got the confirmation mail
Nov 26 17:31:34 <mickeyl> so it's probably underway for you
Nov 26 17:31:46 <mickeyl> new blog post?
Nov 26 17:31:48 * mickeyl checks
Nov 26 17:31:50 <CM> Yes
Nov 26 17:32:16 * CM has his rss-feeds in an iv.
Nov 26 17:32:17 <mickeyl> oho
Nov 26 17:32:23 <mickeyl> "It seems like all the time with OpenMoko has actually made me forget how easy and fast things have been moving all the time before ;)"
Nov 26 17:32:27 <mickeyl> i can feel the pun
Nov 26 17:32:42 <CM> Hehe
Nov 26 17:32:43 <stefan_schmidt> heh
Nov 26 17:50:39 <PBeck> hi
Nov 26 17:52:41 <tuukkah> could we tweak something in the mixer to make the perceived volume of headphones and speakers match at least somewhat?
Nov 26 17:57:18 <tuukkah> headphones become audible at volume 36 and speakers at 62. good volume for headphones is 60, for speakers 91. (these with Amp at 68)
Nov 26 17:57:58 <LarstiQ> tuukkah: I'd think this normal?
Nov 26 17:58:51 <tuukkah> not good usability, me thinks
Nov 26 18:00:53 <tuukkah> hmm, of course there's an advantage too: the headphone switch is a bit flaky, so it's good you don't disturb others even if it switches to speakers by accident
Nov 26 18:01:40 <LarstiQ> tuukkah: well, it is what I'd expect, the headphones being a lot closer to my hearing equipment than the speakers.
Nov 26 18:03:30 <tuukkah> LarstiQ, depends on what the measure of volume is
Nov 26 18:04:40 <tuukkah> imho, the user-friendly measure is perceived loudness
Nov 26 18:05:21 <LarstiQ> I want 100 to be maximum the hardware is capable of at least
Nov 26 18:05:26 <tuukkah> i suppose in practise it's voltage?
Nov 26 18:07:09 <tuukkah> LarstiQ, even if that means the usable range is from 0 to 5 ?-)
Nov 26 18:07:51 <LarstiQ> tuukkah: the scale need not be linear
Nov 26 18:08:06 <tuukkah> it helps that there's the separate Amp setting
Nov 26 18:08:17 <pH5> usually it's some chip-specific scale that can be translated into +dB or -dB, depending on whether it is an attenuation or gain control.
Nov 26 18:09:02 <tuukkah> LarstiQ, then you need to be able to adjust the non-linearity so the precision is where you need it?
Nov 26 18:10:24 <tuukkah> pH5, so a logarithm of voltage?
Nov 26 18:10:43 <LarstiQ> tuukkah: ideally not of course
Nov 26 18:12:19 <tuukkah> i suppose i can reformulate my original question better: do we have mixer settings that let us tweak headphone and speaker volume independently?
Nov 26 18:12:56 <LarstiQ> ooh, that would be good :)
Nov 26 18:13:02 <pH5> tuukkah: yes :)
Nov 26 18:13:13 <tuukkah> pH5, which ones are those?
Nov 26 18:13:27 <pH5> tuukkah: install amixer or alsamixer to see what is possible.
Nov 26 18:13:42 <tuukkah> pH5, i'm looking at the list but haven't found anything
Nov 26 18:15:44 <pH5> tuukkah: http://buildhost.openmoko.org/OM2007.2/tmp/deploy/glibc/ipk/armv4t/alsa-utils-alsamixer_1.0.14-r1_armv4t.ipk
Nov 26 18:16:30 <tuukkah> i mean i'm running alsamixer right now and testing the controls available
Nov 26 18:16:50 <pH5> oh, sorry
Nov 26 18:16:55 <tuukkah> there's "Headphone" and that affects both
Nov 26 18:17:08 <tuukkah> then there's "Speaker" and that doesn't affect anything
Nov 26 18:17:55 <tuukkah> "Speaker" might affect the connection between GSM and audio or something
Nov 26 18:18:22 <tuukkah> and "Headphone" is obviously the main volume setting
Nov 26 18:21:24 <pH5> hm, I can't test. the image I have flashed has non-working sound due to an oops in  snd_soc_neo1973_wm8753 :/
Nov 26 18:21:59 <tuukkah> wiki says: "headset speaker path: RIN/LIN -> LHP/RHP" and later "speaker path: RIN/LIN -> LLS+-/RLS+-"
Nov 26 18:22:44 <tuukkah> so what i'm looking for should be between those outputs and the actual speakers
Nov 26 18:24:58 <tuukkah> there's something similar though: "Amp Earpiece 6dB" toggles additional amplification to the mono speaker
Nov 26 18:27:28 <tuukkah> wolfson.co.uk doesn't give me any page content now so i can't recheck the datasheet, but i don't recall more than a shared volume control for headphones and speakers
Nov 26 18:28:02 <pH5> RIN/LIN(in) and LLS+-/RLS+-(out) are pins on the LM4857 amplifier
Nov 26 18:28:07 <tuukkah> "400: No Host matches server name wolfson.co.uk"
Nov 26 18:29:01 <tuukkah> pH5, yeah, and the amp doesn't contain anything for the independent tweaking, so it would need to be done after it
Nov 26 18:29:23 <pH5> tuukkah: they indeed use ROUT1/LOUT1 on the wolfson for both headset and speakers and do the switching in LM4857
Nov 26 18:29:25 <tuukkah> (if i recall correctly)
Nov 26 18:30:22 <pH5> tuukkah: you are right
Nov 26 18:30:46 <tuukkah> i was wrong in that i thought the wolfson could've helped something
Nov 26 18:30:47 <pH5> it only has one of mono, left and right volume controls each
Nov 26 18:32:41 <pH5> stupid me, I thought they would have at least used different outputs on the wm for speaker and headset
Nov 26 18:33:28 <tuukkah> i wonder why the need for the extra amp
Nov 26 18:34:59 <tuukkah> more watts could be a good guess
Nov 26 18:35:58 <pH5> tuukkah: likely so, the wm's speaker driver only has 0.5W output
Nov 26 18:36:55 <tuukkah> this gives the impression that's the lm4857 output: https://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/LM4857
Nov 26 18:36:55 <zash> omg, qemu runs nicer on my laptop than my workws
Nov 26 18:36:58 <pH5> but I still don't understand why the headphones have to go through the amp, too.
Nov 26 18:37:32 <_buz> pH5: there may be headphones with bigger drivers than the internal speakers...
Nov 26 18:37:36 <zash> Dual 1.6GHz + 1GB RAM > crap
Nov 26 18:37:38 <zash> hihi
Nov 26 18:37:46 <pH5> tuukkah: that information is wrong, the LM specsheet says 1.6W or 1.2W depending on resistance
Nov 26 18:37:57 <_buz> in fact i'm quite sure that the set i currently have on my ears has bigger ones
Nov 26 18:38:22 <_buz> (but no, i wouldnt not use them with a mobile player :)
Nov 26 18:38:27 <pH5> _buz: but that is very inconsistent with the used 2.5mm plug
Nov 26 18:38:43 <pH5> so I don't believe that this was the reason
Nov 26 18:38:48 <_buz> i dont think the plug is very much of an issue when pushing 1 or 2W :P
Nov 26 18:39:19 <pH5> _buz: you know that's not what I meant :)
Nov 26 18:39:39 <_buz> yeah but you also know why there is a 2,5mm plug dont you
Nov 26 18:40:03 <tuukkah> pH5, that 1.6W is perhaps all six channels combined, as the text below says "495mW per channel"
Nov 26 18:40:04 <pH5> guilty as charged
Nov 26 18:40:23 <PP|Spydon> is there something like 3.5 to 2.5 converter plug? :P
Nov 26 18:40:29 <_buz> sure
Nov 26 18:40:32 <zash> why does half the panel have gray bg?
Nov 26 18:40:39 <_buz> cost like 0.01$ on ebay 
Nov 26 18:40:42 <PP|Spydon> nice ^^
Nov 26 18:40:53 <_buz> (and 10$ shipping of course)
Nov 26 18:41:03 <PP|Spydon> hehe
Nov 26 18:41:07 <tuukkah> the neo should ship with a converter then
Nov 26 18:41:15 <_buz> it may in fact do
Nov 26 18:41:25 <tuukkah> mine didn't ;-)
Nov 26 18:41:26 <_buz> oh no, i think its in ear plugs
Nov 26 18:41:58 * _buz is considering a 199USD n800
Nov 26 18:42:11 <_buz> that's like, not very much in hard currenty
Nov 26 18:42:19 <ewon> agreed
Nov 26 18:42:22 <cjb_ie> what's that in real mo... damn your nimble fingers :)
Nov 26 18:42:23 <pH5> I wish the n8xx had an umts chip onboard
Nov 26 18:42:36 <_buz> a gsm would do it for me
Nov 26 18:42:37 <ewon> I'd buy one, if I could think of any use for an n800
Nov 26 18:42:50 <_buz> ewon: i'm trying to find one myself
Nov 26 18:42:57 <_buz> maybe as media player
Nov 26 18:43:42 <_buz> if the thing had any kind of gsm or umts i'd have ordered one long ago
Nov 26 18:44:04 <ewon> me too.
Nov 26 18:44:17 <ewon> I'm pondering getting a htc tytn II here in the US
Nov 26 18:44:26 * mwester is greatly enjoying his N800
Nov 26 18:44:28 <ewon> with an AT&T contract it's pretty cheap
Nov 26 18:44:32 <_buz> ewon: i was looking at a s710
Nov 26 18:44:39 <zash> is contacts suposed to say 'Add Phone Number" twice?
Nov 26 18:44:39 <_buz> but htc is windows mobile
Nov 26 18:44:44 <_buz> which is like useless
Nov 26 18:44:51 <_buz> mwester: what do you actually use it for
Nov 26 18:44:53 <zash> htc + om would be nice
Nov 26 18:45:08 <ewon> _buz: it's servicable
Nov 26 18:45:15 <ewon> better than earlier windows mobile, that's for sure
Nov 26 18:45:25 <ewon> at least with a copy of visual studio I can write my own software
Nov 26 18:45:28 <_buz> ewon: yeah but it's said to still occasionally suffer of gsm stack crashes you dont notice
Nov 26 18:45:36 <ewon> wonderful
Nov 26 18:45:40 <_buz> yeah
Nov 26 18:45:45 <_buz> makes it pretty useless for a phone, really
Nov 26 18:45:51 <_buz> i mean if it at least rebooted
Nov 26 18:45:53 <ewon> indeed
Nov 26 18:46:03 <ewon> guess that's that one struck off the list
Nov 26 18:46:13 <_buz> well do some research, that's what i have been told anyway
Nov 26 18:46:16 <ewon> isn't the android thing suposed to run on HTC variant?
Nov 26 18:46:31 <_buz> htc says they have a number of android devices in the works
Nov 26 18:46:44 <ewon> I may wait
Nov 26 18:46:51 <_buz> just gimme a vga tytn II with android :P
Nov 26 18:47:00 <ewon> I'd buy the moko but the keyboard is the dealbreaker
Nov 26 18:47:17 <mwester> _buz:  email, xchat, football scores and game updates, video and audio while on airplanes, VNC and remote desktop support of the home systems via VPN...
Nov 26 18:47:22 <_buz> i'd still buy it, but at this point in time, 450$ for a non existant device is too much
Nov 26 18:47:33 <_buz> xchat on a touchscreen? you into S/M?
Nov 26 18:47:52 <mwester> _buz:  it beats a treo.  But I do that to.
Nov 26 18:47:53 <_buz> how long does the battery hold up for mp3 and video?
Nov 26 18:48:06 <mwester> At least several hours.
Nov 26 18:48:17 <_buz> mhh i might still get one then :P
Nov 26 18:48:18 <mwester> Longer than the typical flights I take.
Nov 26 18:48:33 <_buz> does it come with a sip client these days?
Nov 26 18:48:44 <mwester> Gizmo does that, no?
Nov 26 18:48:47 <_buz> i could use a decent wlan sip phone
Nov 26 18:49:21 <mwester> Skype and Gizmo are just a download, I expect there are other clients but I don't need them.
Nov 26 18:49:22 <_buz> (which is why i wont buy gta01, incidentally)
Nov 26 18:49:49 <mwester> Well, I bought a gta01.  And despite more features it is less useful than the N800.  :(  Very sad.
Nov 26 18:50:15 <_buz> there are no gsm sd cards or are there
Nov 26 18:50:18 <mwester> And since the GTA02 does not seem to be an option, I've committed to the N800.
Nov 26 18:50:44 <mwester> No, no gsm sd cards.  I use my Treo as a network gateway via bluetooth for the N800
Nov 26 18:50:58 <_buz> yeah but that still means two devices to carry
Nov 26 18:51:08 <_buz> i'm still waiting for the one linux device to rule them
Nov 26 18:51:17 <mwester> Yes.  That's exactly what I wanted the Neo to fix -- I wanted one device with it all. :(
Nov 26 18:51:47 <_buz> no camera, no qwerty
Nov 26 18:52:15 <_buz> btw, after the recent delay, is there a new tentative schedule?
Nov 26 18:52:29 <anrp> recent delay?
Nov 26 18:52:37 <_buz> well somewhat recent
Nov 26 18:52:42 <mwester> Ah, yes.  The camera is not a problem -- I carry an ancient old cell phone without camera because I go into many places where I am not permitted to have cameras.  The qwerty would be nice, however.
Nov 26 18:53:14 <_buz> i'd get a n810 but without gsm, it costs too much
Nov 26 18:53:21 <mwester> But I'm becoming pretty good with touchscreen keyboards on both the N800 and the Neo.
Nov 26 18:53:44 <mwester> The 810 appears to have just a few features more, but not worth the premium $.
Nov 26 18:53:44 <_buz> i've been carrying a p900 for 4 years now. i'd still prefer qwerty to touchscreen
Nov 26 18:53:59 <_buz> (tho infinitely prefer touchscreen to the suckage that is t9)
Nov 26 18:54:15 <mwester> For example, the specs say the n810 has a faster CPU, but the CPU slows down to the same speed as the N800 when playing videos.
Nov 26 18:54:28 <_buz> thought hardware was mostly the same
Nov 26 18:55:23 <mwester> It is - that's why they slow the CPU down.  Apparently it matches the video hardware better when the clock of the cpu runs at some certain speed in relation to the video chipset.  So not enough hardware diffs to justify the extra $200 to $300 it will cos.
Nov 26 18:55:31 <mwester> cost, even.
Nov 26 18:55:43 <_buz> yeah at 50$ more i'd get it for qwerty
Nov 26 18:55:53 <_buz> but not at more than twice the price
Nov 26 18:55:54 <mwester> And the built-in GPS is nice.
Nov 26 18:56:04 <_buz> i dont really need that right now
Nov 26 18:56:27 <mwester> And I hear that Nokia even provides a DRIVER FOR THE GPS!!!  What ground-breaking marketing, no?
Nov 26 18:56:44 <_buz> and probably software with actual maps, too
Nov 26 18:56:45 * mwester is not bitter about the GPS driver for the GTA01, no, not at all.
Nov 26 18:57:47 <josch> mwester, as mickeyl said fic finally released the eula
Nov 26 18:58:10 <tuukkah> i was demoed the free maemo mapper today, with scripts that download the map data from google
Nov 26 18:58:32 <_buz> tuukkah: its kinda useless on the road
Nov 26 18:58:40 <_buz> as you're not allowed to cache google maps
Nov 26 18:58:49 <_buz> (and neither is google maps suited for navigation)
Nov 26 18:58:52 <tuukkah> _buz, oh, those scripts do...
Nov 26 18:58:52 <mwester> josch:  where? is this on the announce list? 
Nov 26 18:59:28 <tuukkah> _buz, and google was able to provide routes and instructions that can be spoken
Nov 26 18:59:31 * mwester is rather excited by this news, and dashes off to see where and how he can download the driver.
Nov 26 19:00:53 <josch> mwester, well it seems he only spoke about this in our german channel
Nov 26 19:01:31 <mwester> Ah.  Ok.  Sorry, nothing personal, but at this point in time I'll believe it only after I've downloaded the binary.  It's been six months now?
Nov 26 19:01:34 <josch> mwester, he said he would blog this evening maybe he says something about gllin there
Nov 26 19:01:36 <_buz> does he perchance also talk about gta02 release date :)
Nov 26 19:01:57 <abraxa_> lol
Nov 26 19:02:16 <_buz> as far as gta02, i'll believe it when i hold it in my hands
Nov 26 19:03:18 * josch didn't believe in the existence of gta01 since he held it in his hands
Nov 26 19:03:39 <_buz> josch: amen to that
Nov 26 19:03:55 <_buz> and i was actually positively surprised by the feel of the device
Nov 26 19:04:16 <abraxa_> I wasn't - the vibrator is too weak ;)
Nov 26 19:04:36 <CM> abraxa_: Thought it was you gf who said that? :P
Nov 26 19:04:55 <abraxa_> ssshhhh
Nov 26 19:05:03 <_buz> oh it comes with silicone shell then?
Nov 26 19:05:36 <abraxa_> CM: It's why she has a Nokia now.
Nov 26 19:05:44 <CM> abraxa_: Hehe
Nov 26 19:06:06 <josch> ^^
Nov 26 19:10:25 <josch> ha!!
Nov 26 19:10:37 <josch> the FIC battery works with the nokia E70!
Nov 26 19:11:27 <josch> this phone also charges the FIC battery in contrary to what the wiki article says
Nov 26 19:12:30 <_buz> the e70 may just about be the strangest phone ever built
Nov 26 19:12:43 <josch> it is
Nov 26 19:13:01 <abraxa_> I thought the n-gage was
Nov 26 19:13:30 <ewon> side-talking, baby
Nov 26 19:13:32 <_buz> the ngage is comparatively normal
Nov 26 19:21:59 <Writchie|lunch> _buz: for a taco
Nov 26 19:31:01 <Writchie|lunch> mickey: still no e-mail, unlikely problem is at google.com end, you might want to test mailer on that serverl
Nov 26 19:31:42 <mickeyl> Writchie|lunch: damn, it worked for me
Nov 26 19:31:45 <borg_> Writchie|lunch: i got a confirmation now
Nov 26 19:31:47 <mickeyl> could you check your spam filter?
Nov 26 19:32:02 <mickeyl> abraxa_: fwiw, the gta02 vibrator is a tad bit stronger :)
Nov 26 19:32:15 * ewon blinks
Nov 26 19:32:30 <Writchie|lunch> you spammer you ;)
Nov 26 19:32:31 <flexd> mickeyl: you sound... glad... in a weird sort of way... :P
Nov 26 19:32:38 <mickeyl> hahah
Nov 26 19:32:42 <borg_> :)
Nov 26 19:32:52 <IfChinsCouldKill> Borg?
Nov 26 19:32:58 <borg_> <- there
Nov 26 19:33:04 * ewon points
Nov 26 19:33:06 <abraxa_> mickeyl: Good to know ;)
Nov 26 19:33:12 <IfChinsCouldKill> How do one activate that display thing
Nov 26 19:33:29 <borg_> just install the new neod
Nov 26 19:33:34 <borg_> there is nothing to activate
Nov 26 19:33:50 <borg_> it isnt yet on the official buildhost
Nov 26 19:33:57 <borg_> but it is in ScaredyCat's repo
Nov 26 19:34:15 <IfChinsCouldKill> yes I loaded it in qemu
Nov 26 19:34:27 <mudyc> mickeyl: is there more information about freesmartphone than in the freesmartphone.org?
Nov 26 19:34:46 <IfChinsCouldKill> But what do i have to do to make it show the slide thing
Nov 26 19:34:47 <borg_> IfChinsCouldKill: it should be activatet whenever the brightness is set to 0
Nov 26 19:34:59 <borg_> or you can activate it in the power menu
Nov 26 19:35:05 <borg_> by "lock display"
Nov 26 19:35:14 <borg_> dont know how you get there with qemu :)
Nov 26 19:35:42 <IfChinsCouldKill> maybe I can set the brighness to 0 in the console?
Nov 26 19:35:43 <mickeyl> mudyc: unfortunately not yet. i'm going to start filling this thing with content now. launching it with a blog post and some thoughts
Nov 26 19:36:57 <mudyc> mickeyl: it seems that our work on gmsd2 could be used as a seed
Nov 26 19:37:10 <mickeyl> mudyc: very possible.
Nov 26 19:37:12 <rmoravcik> mickeyl: hi, could you look to this patch http://pastebin.ca/798354 i think, there is a missing break; in gsm panel plugin
Nov 26 19:37:49 <mickeyl> rmoravcik: oh yes! thanks.
Nov 26 19:38:00 <rmoravcik> mickeyl: np
Nov 26 19:40:35 <CIA-14> 03mickey * r3516 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/panel-plugins/openmoko-panel-gsm/ (ChangeLog src/openmoko-panel-gsm.c): openmoko-panel-gsm: Fix unintended fallthrough to default case. Patch by Roman Moravcik - thanks!
Nov 26 19:44:50 <tuukkah> feels a bit stupid to reverse engineer a block chart of the audio subsystem. is there a reason for one not existing already?
Nov 26 19:54:19 <borg_> haha
Nov 26 19:54:23 <borg_> a new community update
Nov 26 19:54:29 <borg_> which says nothing :P
Nov 26 19:54:47 <flexd> must be important
Nov 26 19:54:50 <borg_>  While this isn't 
Nov 26 19:54:51 <borg_> finalized yet it's getting closer.
Nov 26 19:54:56 <borg_> Status: Good progress, but no resolution yet. We are moving closer.
Nov 26 19:54:59 <borg_> Update: I will continue to keep the pressure on.
Nov 26 19:55:04 <borg_> Status: Made excellent progress last week, still more to be done...
Nov 26 19:55:08 <borg_> lol
Nov 26 19:55:55 <mwester> Well, at least somebody is *trying*.  10 points for making the effort, even if the content is lacking... :)
Nov 26 19:57:00 <borg_> :D
Nov 26 19:57:01 <mwester> I get the impression that working for FIC/OM must be rather frustrating at times.  I'm beginning to think that many of the folks who talk with us don't get any better information than do we.
Nov 26 19:57:02 <borg_> yes
Nov 26 20:02:25 <Vegar> hey.. at least it's _something_
Nov 26 20:06:30 <_buz> mwester: i think it would drive me crazy 
Nov 26 20:06:54 <_buz> i know the very long feedback loops in uni sometimes drive me crazy
Nov 26 20:08:09 <_buz> what would be interesting, though, if better information even exists
Nov 26 20:26:03 <abraxa_> ~seen xora
Nov 26 20:26:09 <abraxa_> !seen xora
Nov 26 20:26:12 <cdbot2> I found 3 matches to your query (sorted): XorA|gone XorA XorA|dinner. XorA|gone (n=XorA@www.xora.org.uk) was last seen rejoining #openzaurus from a split 7 hours, 14 minutes ago. XorA|gone is still on #openzaurus.
Nov 26 20:26:35 <apt> xora <n=XorA@www.xora.org.uk> was last seen on IRC in channel #oe, 11h 41m 29s ago, saying: 'my computer has died :-('.
Nov 26 20:26:49 <borg_> :)
Nov 26 20:26:57 <abraxa_> Nice quit message...
Nov 26 20:27:12 <abraxa_> Or should I say... famous last words?
Nov 26 20:27:50 <tuukkah> ok a practical issue with the difference in perceived output volume: "Amp Mode" of "Stereo Speakers + Headphones" isn't useful for example playing the ring tone in both outputs
Nov 26 20:28:44 <tuukkah> either the ring tone is very quiet in the speakers or it hurts ears in the headset
Nov 26 20:40:48 <mwester> abraxa_:  There seems to be a bit of "precognition" about that quit message, though.
Nov 26 20:43:51 <CM> abraxa_: He said more about it this morning in #oe
Nov 26 20:44:09 <CM> Basically his main workstation won't power on any more 
Nov 26 20:44:55 <abraxa_> I know that feeling. My laptop is my main computer now as well - I'm so glad slugs make for good and cheap NAS so I didn't lose anything actually.
Nov 26 20:45:14 <tuukkah> is this stale code or a good way to dereference null pointers: https://svn.openmoko.org/trunk/src/target/kernel/patches/asoc-platform-hw_init-pcm_emulation-fix.patch
Nov 26 20:45:42 <tuukkah> oops
Nov 26 20:45:53 <tuukkah> forget about it, there's the small assignment statement =)
Nov 26 20:46:11 <mwester> Where?
Nov 26 20:46:31 <tuukkah> if (prtd->params == NULL) { prtd->params = dma;
Nov 26 20:46:45 <mwester> Removing the line endings: if (prtd->params == NULL) prtd->params = dms;
Nov 26 20:46:57 <wirrwarr> tach
Nov 26 20:47:05 <mickeyl> moin
Nov 26 20:47:07 <mwester> Yep, that's the one.
Nov 26 20:47:09 <tuukkah> mwester, sorry, forget about it
Nov 26 20:47:09 <borg_> nabend
Nov 26 20:48:28 <jmichel> Does somebody know how to add a menu item in the OpenMoko menu?
Nov 26 20:48:52 <abraxa_> jmichel: Add a desktop file to /usr/share/applications/
Nov 26 20:49:19 <jmichel> I'm generating a ipkg package with my application and I'd like if during installation it would add in the menu
Nov 26 20:49:59 <jmichel> abraxa_: how can I do this from my ipk package?
Nov 26 20:50:09 <tuukkah> mwester, i wonder if harald's comment means we *should* do something even if (prtd->params == NULL) to honor the new params
Nov 26 20:50:35 <tuukkah> or does it mean we don't want to care about the new params?
Nov 26 20:50:55 <jmichel> abraxa_: can I put something in the .bb file to do this ?
Nov 26 20:51:11 <abraxa_> jmichel: Yes,  but it's more portable if you use autotools. Do you?
Nov 26 20:51:14 <tuukkah> s/==/!=/
Nov 26 20:51:20 <jmichel> abraxa_: yes
Nov 26 20:51:35 <abraxa_> jmichel: In that case, http://svnweb.openmoko.org/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-terminal2/data/ gives you the right idea :)
Nov 26 20:51:53 <jmichel> abraxa_: great... i'll check that
Nov 26 20:51:57 <abraxa_> You're welcome
Nov 26 21:15:06 <edistar> hi
Nov 26 21:20:21 <mickey|sofa> bbiab, sofa time
Nov 26 21:34:46 <digitalspaghetti> will there be a python stack on openmoko?
Nov 26 21:35:07 <borg_> there is python in openembedded
Nov 26 21:35:25 <borg_> and there are people working on python bindings for libgsmd
Nov 26 21:35:46 <digitalspaghetti> cool :)  I've been looking at getting the phone for a while, i'm hoping for the december release so I can get it for my christmas :)
Nov 26 21:36:02 <borg_> :)
Nov 26 21:36:14 <edistar> digitalspaghetti: don't be too depressed when it only arrives in january or a bit later ;)
Nov 26 21:36:17 <digitalspaghetti> i'd be interested in the developers board, but i can't find any details on price for buying the GTA02 if you already have a GTA01
Nov 26 21:36:33 <edistar> digitalspaghetti: it's the same price for everyone
Nov 26 21:36:56 <jmichel> abraxa_: I have done the same as openmoko-terminal2... now I have a .desktop file in /usr/share/applications but it still doesn't show up on the phone's menu
Nov 26 21:37:09 <digitalspaghetti> oh so you have to buy a GTA01, then pay full price again for a GTA02?
Nov 26 21:37:46 <abraxa_> jmichel: Did you reboot or restart openmoko-today2?
Nov 26 21:37:51 <edistar> digitalspaghetti: no, you just buy the dev board with the GTA02
Nov 26 21:38:02 <abraxa_> jmichel: I don't think it uses inotify already
Nov 26 21:38:14 <jmichel> yes
Nov 26 21:38:17 <edistar> digitalspaghetti: you don't need the gta01.. gta02 will be sold with board too
Nov 26 21:38:24 <borg_> digitalspaghetti: there is a high change that you dont need the debug board
Nov 26 21:38:29 <abraxa_> jmichel: Does it appear in the "All" category?
Nov 26 21:39:05 <jmichel> abraxa_: I don't have the "All" category
Nov 26 21:39:16 <borg_> ah, interesting
Nov 26 21:39:18 <jmichel> abraxa_: My rootfs image is maybe 2 weeks old
Nov 26 21:39:37 <borg_> i don't have an "all" category too, since some days
Nov 26 21:39:37 <digitalspaghetti> thats not what i mean :)  what I mean is if I buy a developer preview now, I'd then have to re-buy a GTA02 :)  I'll probably just wait then :)
Nov 26 21:39:39 <borg_> :)
Nov 26 21:40:40 <abraxa_> jmichel: In today, click on the "+" to get to the application list. Then click on the "Applications" title at the top to open the category chooser. Pick "All" and it *should* appear
Nov 26 21:40:41 <edistar> digitalspaghetti: the dev board of gta01 is compatible to gta02.. but of course it's better for your account to wait 2/3 month..
Nov 26 21:41:34 <borg_> abraxa_: there is no all, only media, games, settings and other
Nov 26 21:42:00 <borg_> no "pim suite", no "applications", no "all"
Nov 26 21:42:04 <abraxa_> borg_: What's the date of your rootfs? Sounds like you hit a certain bug
Nov 26 21:42:23 <borg_> abraxa_: dont know, the rootfs is pretty old
Nov 26 21:42:29 <borg_> i update it daily via ipkg
Nov 26 21:46:06 <abraxa_> jmichel  / borg: http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=985 is what I'm refering to
Nov 26 21:46:16 <abraxa_> Are you two seeing that again?
Nov 26 21:46:57 <borg_> root@fic-gta01:/usr/share/today/vfolders$ ls -ahl
Nov 26 21:46:57 <borg_> drwxr-xr-x    2 root     root            0 Nov 15 10:02 .
Nov 26 21:46:57 <borg_> drwxr-xr-x    3 root     root            0 Nov  2 09:35 ..
Nov 26 21:47:00 <borg_> empty
Nov 26 21:49:02 <jmichel> abraxa_ / borg: From the "+" tab, if I click the magnifier at the top left then I can see my application
Nov 26 21:49:42 <abraxa_> jmichel: Then you just need to choose your categories in the .desktop file more carefully :)
Nov 26 21:49:55 <borg_> abraxa_: http://pastebin.ca/798580
Nov 26 21:49:56 <borg_> uhm
Nov 26 21:49:58 <borg_> is this right?
Nov 26 21:49:58 <abraxa_> borg_: Maybe you "updated" from an old repository?
Nov 26 21:50:09 <abraxa_> I'd try flashing a new rootfs
Nov 26 21:50:25 <borg_> urks
Nov 26 21:51:22 <borg_> is there any matchbox-* package that should be installed?
Nov 26 21:51:29 <abraxa_> I have no idea, sorry
Nov 26 21:51:33 <borg_> ok
Nov 26 21:51:42 <abraxa_> I'm not into that vfolder stuff :)
Nov 26 21:52:38 <jmichel> abraxa_ : You are probably right, my icons category was not listed in today... I will chage it
Nov 26 21:57:30 <flexd> hmm
Nov 26 21:57:34 <flexd> Just out of curiosity
Nov 26 21:57:54 <flexd> about how long c/c++ programming experience do you guys have? (You guys as in people working on OM stuff)
Nov 26 21:58:00 * ScaredyCat runs off with flexd's privacy...
Nov 26 21:58:01 <flexd> like, how many years :/
Nov 26 21:58:12 <flexd> ScaredyCat: i have no privacy :(
Nov 26 21:58:20 <ScaredyCat> not any more :D
Nov 26 21:59:02 <abraxa_> lol
Nov 26 21:59:10 <abraxa_> ScaredyCat, you're so mean sometimes
Nov 26 21:59:16 <ScaredyCat> hehehe
Nov 26 21:59:22 <abraxa_> Taking what people want the most ;D
Nov 26 22:00:02 <VladimirBG> hey all
Nov 26 22:00:05 <Stephmw> flexd: I'd say you can take a guess from 0-25 years and just plot a poisson distribution on it :)
Nov 26 22:00:26 <flexd> If i spend the next 25 years learning c i think my brain might explode
Nov 26 22:00:52 <Stephmw> a couple of weeks is enough for small bugfixes ;)
Nov 26 22:01:05 <Stephmw> best way to start is to hack
Nov 26 22:01:06 <ScaredyCat> if you spend the next 25 years *learning* C you need to be shot
Nov 26 22:01:10 <edistar> btw.. something really interesting.. there will be apparently a way to passively crack gsm sessions in 2008
Nov 26 22:01:12 <Stephmw> ScaredyCat: bwahahaha
Nov 26 22:01:19 <Stephmw> edistar: uhuh?
Nov 26 22:01:27 <edistar> Stephmw: I'll search for the link
Nov 26 22:01:29 <flexd> Well i have like.. a few very.. uhm.. like a swiss cheese worths of c++ experience
Nov 26 22:01:36 <flexd> I think i need basics :>
Nov 26 22:01:43 <prpplague> flexd: naw, it;s an automatic process, the more c you learn, your brain automatically dumps unused skills such as those needed for social interaction
Nov 26 22:01:49 <ScaredyCat> you just need to get in there flexd..
Nov 26 22:02:01 <Stephmw> prpplague: whoa there... you had those to begin with?
Nov 26 22:02:07 <Stephmw> prpplague: I was born deficient
Nov 26 22:02:14 <edistar> http://wiki.thc.org/cracking_a5
Nov 26 22:02:20 <ScaredyCat> start off with the basics, grad a couple of apps you like, tear them apart and play 
Nov 26 22:02:25 <ScaredyCat> grab
Nov 26 22:02:26 <Stephmw> prpplague: went through a custom "socialise a geek" intensive programme
Nov 26 22:02:33 <prpplague> hehe
Nov 26 22:02:35 <Stephmw> prpplague: I get regular refresher courses
Nov 26 22:03:35 <edistar> Stephmw: the interesting bit is the rainbow tables..
Nov 26 22:03:49 <Stephmw> edistar: ahhh, I see the angle
Nov 26 22:04:04 <edistar> Stephmw: either 2 TB(!) in order to crack in about 2 hours or 28TB in order to crack in a few seconds
Nov 26 22:04:16 <Stephmw> edistar: easy
Nov 26 22:04:31 <edistar> Stephmw: maybe, but noone has tried before..
Nov 26 22:04:43 <Stephmw> edistar: I mean... 28TB is becoming commoditised
Nov 26 22:04:50 <Stephmw> edistar: I have 2TB in my desktop ;-)
Nov 26 22:04:53 <CoreDump> lol
Nov 26 22:05:02 <edistar> Stephmw: wth? how many drives?
Nov 26 22:05:08 <Stephmw> edistar: 5x400GB
Nov 26 22:05:14 <ScaredyCat> pfft ...
Nov 26 22:05:18 <edistar> Stephmw: sata? what about the speed?
Nov 26 22:05:25 <Mononoke>  have you heared word ecology ? :S
Nov 26 22:05:30 <Stephmw> ScaredyCat: I ain't about to fork out for 1TB drives ;)
Nov 26 22:05:37 <Stephmw> edistar: sata2
Nov 26 22:05:49 <Stephmw> edistar: they're raided atm, raid10
Nov 26 22:05:58 <ScaredyCat> do I have to show you gadgets 17TB array, of which he has 3
Nov 26 22:06:00 <Stephmw> edistar: 40-50MB/s
Nov 26 22:06:00 <ScaredyCat> of
Nov 26 22:06:16 <edistar> Stephmw: ok, thats not too fast.. takes ages to fill ;)
Nov 26 22:06:36 <Stephmw> edistar: yeah, I didn't go for anything specially fast for the drives either
Nov 26 22:06:42 <edistar> I only have 1 TB in my fileserver and a few gigs in every pc
Nov 26 22:06:55 <Stephmw> edistar: just wanted to stave off my storage needs for the next few years
Nov 26 22:07:02 <edistar> Stephmw: yeah, I can imagine
Nov 26 22:07:27 <Stephmw> edistar: 100GB of photos since last year... so...
Nov 26 22:07:32 <edistar> Stephmw: me too, thats why I bought 2x250 ;) which won't be enough..
Nov 26 22:07:53 <Stephmw> edistar: the panoramas are what's eating up the space atm
Nov 26 22:07:57 <edistar> Stephmw: now I have a canon 400d I need loads of storage too :)
Nov 26 22:08:04 <Stephmw> edistar: 80mp panos weigh in around 65-70mb
Nov 26 22:08:11 <Stephmw> (jpeg)
Nov 26 22:08:25 <Stephmw> tiffs... well, for printing, the pdfs are around 500mb
Nov 26 22:08:36 <edistar> Stephmw: how do you make a 80mp pic?
Nov 26 22:08:42 * mwester feels left out, he only has 0.75TB RAID5 and a .5TB mirrored arrays
Nov 26 22:08:53 <thresh> huff
Nov 26 22:08:55 <thresh> xfs                    13T  7,0T  5,4T  57% /var/ftp
Nov 26 22:08:56 <edistar> mwester-n: quite enough..
Nov 26 22:09:05 <edistar> show offs..
Nov 26 22:09:06 <mwester> It fits OE.
Nov 26 22:09:06 <Stephmw> edistar: take lots of frames with 20% or so overlap and same exposure
Nov 26 22:09:10 <mwester> (barely)
Nov 26 22:09:11 <Stephmw> edistar: then feed em to a stitcher
Nov 26 22:09:11 <thresh> /dev/mapper/exchange-massive 20T   18T  1,8T  91% /var/ftp
Nov 26 22:09:15 <ScaredyCat> yeah, photos take up so much.... sometimes I pine for the days of old, when photos were on paper
Nov 26 22:09:24 <Stephmw> edistar: Hugin, AutoPanoPro or something else
Nov 26 22:09:33 <Stephmw> edistar: I prefer APP
Nov 26 22:09:36 <thresh> and some non-attached iscsi stuffs for ~15T too
Nov 26 22:09:39 <Stephmw> edistar: waiting for the 1.4 release
Nov 26 22:09:45 <mwester> ScaredyCat:  whoda thunk the capacity of a 4x5 negative?
Nov 26 22:09:50 <edistar> Stephmw: I need to make panos soon.. do you have any pdf or website you can recommend for me to learn about them?
Nov 26 22:10:17 <Spida> Stephmw: which stitcher do you use?
Nov 26 22:10:38 <ScaredyCat> mwester: gnneh!
Nov 26 22:11:07 <Stephmw> Spida: AutoPano - I occasionally also test in Hugin
Nov 26 22:11:31 <CVirus> no community updates yet :-(
Nov 26 22:11:55 <edistar> CVirus: there was a community update..
Nov 26 22:11:56 <edistar> today
Nov 26 22:12:06 <Stephmw> Spida: the wiki has the 1.4 pre-releases
Nov 26 22:12:13 <Stephmw> edistar: looking for a good link
Nov 26 22:12:20 <edistar> Stephmw: are there good OSS stitchers?
Nov 26 22:12:36 <Stephmw> edistar: Sure, Hugin is the best around which is OSS
Nov 26 22:12:39 <Stephmw> edistar: http://hugin.sourceforge.net/tutorials/index.shtml
Nov 26 22:12:47 <CVirus> edistar: where is that ?
Nov 26 22:12:48 <edistar> Stephmw: thx
Nov 26 22:12:55 <edistar> CVirus: mailinglist
Nov 26 22:13:03 <Stephmw> edistar: APP just has a few things above and beyond that make it nicer to use (and in some cases, more of a pain)
Nov 26 22:13:13 <CVirus> edistar: fine thanks
Nov 26 22:13:28 <Stephmw> edistar: scaled down examples of what I've done recently, http://stephanemw.googlepages.com/panoramas.html
Nov 26 22:13:37 <Stephmw> edistar: I'm not about to stick the full res online yet :D
Nov 26 22:13:52 <edistar> heh
Nov 26 22:14:22 <Stephmw> I'm waiting for my pano head though, so everything at that link is done handheld
Nov 26 22:14:23 <edistar> Stephmw: what is the raw version?
Nov 26 22:14:31 <Stephmw> edistar: just the jpeg for the small image
Nov 26 22:14:37 <Stephmw> edistar: for the flash-impaired
Nov 26 22:14:38 <edistar> Stephmw: ok
Nov 26 22:15:16 <Stephmw> for something truly impressive, http://www.docbert.org/MP/
Nov 26 22:15:21 <Stephmw> 1.5GP pano
Nov 26 22:15:25 <ScaredyCat> for ub1 ... if it were me there I'd run roud you as you took the picture :)
Nov 26 22:15:45 <Stephmw> ScaredyCat: that's wher resynthesize plugin for GIMP is useful
Nov 26 22:16:02 <Stephmw> ScaredyCat: 15% top and bottom of that pano is pure fabrication
Nov 26 22:16:18 <Stephmw> ScaredyCat: I hadn't taken 2 rows of photos ;)
Nov 26 22:16:23 <ScaredyCat> lol!
Nov 26 22:16:55 <edistar> Stephmw: how do you take a 1.5G pano?
Nov 26 22:17:07 <Stephmw> edistar: there's a link on his page with the tech details
Nov 26 22:17:22 <edistar> Stephmw: ah, ok
Nov 26 22:17:25 <Stephmw> edistar: chatted to him, he said patience was key
Nov 26 22:17:57 <ScaredyCat> I made myself feel sick, spinning it round
Nov 26 22:18:43 <edistar> Stephmw: wtf, rendering takes 11 hours?
Nov 26 22:18:48 <ScaredyCat> lol
Nov 26 22:19:33 <edistar> why does it take that long?
Nov 26 22:19:50 <Stephmw> you can't just put em edge-to-edge
Nov 26 22:20:02 <edistar> Stephmw: oh.. I have to learn a lot then..
Nov 26 22:20:11 <Stephmw> you're trying to map sections of a sphere to each other and to a plane
Nov 26 22:20:18 <Stephmw> etc
Nov 26 22:20:27 <edistar> oh yes.. can the program do that automatically?
Nov 26 22:21:01 <Stephmw> ;) thankfully
Nov 26 22:21:11 <edistar> good..
Nov 26 22:21:18 <Stephmw> more bits of info, http://en.wiki.autopano.net/Interpolation_and_blenders and http://en.wiki.autopano.net/Understanding_Projecting_Modes
Nov 26 22:21:32 <edistar> Stephmw: thx
Nov 26 22:22:10 <Stephmw> edistar: also, like he did, some of the overlap isn't at the same zoom
Nov 26 22:22:21 <Stephmw> edistar: so feature extraction, matching and image deformation become required
Nov 26 22:22:54 <Stephmw> edistar: my simple, single-row panos take maybe 10mins
Nov 26 22:23:34 <edistar> Stephmw: interesting.. I'm thinking of making a few panos of the surrounding here and give them away as presents to my family, cause we'll move soon... so they'll like to have pics of woods and the house ;)
Nov 26 22:25:22 <Stephmw> edistar: great idea
Nov 26 22:25:37 <Stephmw> edistar: two things to watch out for (I've got a 350D)...
Nov 26 22:25:51 <Stephmw> edistar: use the same exposure for all the shots, it makes stitching infinitely easier
Nov 26 22:25:54 * ScaredyCat would need a better camera :(
Nov 26 22:26:02 <edistar> Stephmw: ok :)
Nov 26 22:26:05 <Stephmw> edistar: parallax errors are a bitch to stitch
Nov 26 22:26:20 <Stephmw> edistar: objects closer to you will cause them
Nov 26 22:26:50 <edistar> luckily SLRs have manual mode.. our old rubbishy cam could take pics at 3mp and had a 'manual' setting that did everything automatically :/
Nov 26 22:27:30 <Stephmw> you can get pretty good panos even if you don't follow those two things, but I wouldn't give prints away
Nov 26 22:27:54 <edistar> Stephmw: yeah.. I'll just try
Nov 26 22:28:01 <edistar> I'm got plenty of time, roughly a year :)
Nov 26 22:28:11 <Stephmw> cool :D
Nov 26 22:28:49 <edistar> Stephmw: enough time to render my 20k seperate pics ;)
Nov 26 22:35:50 <edistar> anyone seen snow yet this year?
Nov 26 22:35:59 <thresh> sure
Nov 26 22:36:18 <Philippe> yep lots of it right at the other side of the window
Nov 26 22:36:19 <balrog-kun> yes, unfortunately
Nov 26 22:36:23 <edistar> where?
Nov 26 22:36:25 <Vegar> yes, lots
Nov 26 22:36:29 <edistar> I want snow.. here ;)
Nov 26 22:36:34 <Philippe> edistar: Finland
Nov 26 22:36:36 <CIA-14> 03andrew * r3517 10/trunk/src/host/qemu-neo1973/ (69 files in 9 dirs): Sync from cvs.savannah.nongnu.org.
Nov 26 22:36:42 <edistar> that way I won't need to go to school tomorrow if its enough
Nov 26 22:36:44 <thresh> Moscow suburbs
Nov 26 22:36:47 <OJW> ebay was advertising that you could pay someone to deliver it ;)
Nov 26 22:36:48 <josch> edistar, there is a lot of snow in munich now
Nov 26 22:37:24 <thresh> though it's raining now, and ~+1œC
Nov 26 22:37:27 <balrog-kun> i want to keep using bike as my main transport, but i had to stop last week
Nov 26 22:37:45 <thresh> me too. it sucks being wet
Nov 26 22:37:49 <CVirus> community update isn't that fruitful
Nov 26 22:37:54 <CVirus> frustrating
Nov 26 22:37:54 <Philippe> balrog-kun: just put spiked winter tites on it. It's what I do. Beats walking
Nov 26 22:38:06 <Philippe> s/tites/tires/
Nov 26 22:38:07 <apt> Philippe meant: balrog-kun: just put spiked winter tires on it. It's what I do. Beats walking
Nov 26 22:38:16 <Vegar> Philippe: that rocks
Nov 26 22:38:21 <Vegar> I used to do it
Nov 26 22:38:25 <balrog-kun> Philippe: it's too damn cold
Nov 26 22:38:38 <edistar> balrog-kun: where are you?
Nov 26 22:38:49 <thresh> yeah; i was fscking tired of getting 2.1" tires onto mine sun rims s-type :(
Nov 26 22:38:50 <Philippe> balrog-kun: is it already under -15 C ?
Nov 26 22:38:52 <OJW> still using slick tyres in england
Nov 26 22:38:55 <balrog-kun> and i want to use it for getting somewhere (on time) and not just recreational
Nov 26 22:39:13 <balrog-kun> edistar: poland, it's some +1 C now, too cold for me
Nov 26 22:39:18 <edistar> balrog-kun: ok ;)
Nov 26 22:39:19 <Vegar> haha
Nov 26 22:39:21 <Vegar> that's not cold
Nov 26 22:39:31 <balrog-kun> Vegar: for biking it is
Nov 26 22:39:33 <edistar> it's +4 here..
Nov 26 22:39:36 <Vegar> no it's not
Nov 26 22:39:44 <Vegar> I've been biking in -25
Nov 26 22:39:48 <edistar> brr...
Nov 26 22:39:57 <thresh> mine minimum was -15
Nov 26 22:40:13 <thresh> too cold even with proper clothes
Nov 26 22:40:14 <Philippe> Mine was -31C. 
Nov 26 22:40:28 <balrog-kun> Vegar: well, me too, but not in the heavy city traffic at 8 am when i have 30 minutes to make 20 km
Nov 26 22:40:34 <Philippe> But that is with balaclava (bank robber mask) and extra hat
Nov 26 22:40:37 <OJW> Vegar: you been to iditarod too?
Nov 26 22:40:40 <balrog-kun> ..and it's snowing
Nov 26 22:41:03 <borg_> no snow here :(
Nov 26 22:41:16 <Vegar> OJW: haha, no
Nov 26 22:41:41 <Writchie> ice is for drinks and snow is for snow cones ;)
Nov 26 22:41:54 <edistar> heh
Nov 26 22:42:29 <edistar> snow is for not having school :)
Nov 26 22:42:45 <Writchie> no hurricanes are for that
Nov 26 22:43:04 <edistar> if there is more than 1 meter of snow nobody has to go to school.. so I pray :) I still need to set up a postfix box and my new fileserver ;)
Nov 26 22:43:12 <tuukkah> do we know whether we use the "voice" interface of the wolfson codec?
Nov 26 22:43:14 <edistar> Writchie: don't have hurricanes in germany
Nov 26 22:44:12 <OJW> Vegar: that was like -40 at night; bit difficult to cycle in
Nov 26 22:45:09 <CVirus> -40 ?
Nov 26 22:45:13 <CVirus> where the fsck is that ?
Nov 26 22:46:00 <CVirus> our lowest record here in Cairo/Egypt is like 10C or something ... it's 15C now though
Nov 26 22:46:11 <tuukkah> -40 isn't that much occasionally here in the north
Nov 26 22:46:43 <edistar> tuukkah: where?
Nov 26 22:47:07 <tuukkah> something like once a year in inland finland
Nov 26 22:47:09 <thresh> we had ~-33œC last winter; up to -38 IIRC the winter before that
Nov 26 22:47:17 <thresh> (moscow)
Nov 26 22:47:32 <thresh> it was creepy
Nov 26 22:48:00 <edistar> our lowest here was -8 or so :)
Nov 26 22:48:30 <ixian_probe> I'm just curious, how many Norwegian openmoko users/devs are there at this moment?
Nov 26 22:48:39 <ixian_probe> anyone willing to do an guesstimate?
Nov 26 22:48:59 <thresh> ...null?
Nov 26 22:49:12 <thresh> just a rough guess:)
Nov 26 22:49:17 <edistar> ixian_probe: why don't you write a script that will scan and trace all ips and give us an estimate?
Nov 26 22:49:17 <tuukkah> coldest night in finland: -51.5, 1999-01-28
Nov 26 22:49:40 <ixian_probe> thresh: and what's your standard deviance? ;)
Nov 26 22:49:42 <ixian_probe> ;)
Nov 26 22:50:29 <ixian_probe> edistar: hmm.. good idea ^_^ If I could script. ;) I was just curious as I'm lusting for an GTAV02, and maybe there were someone interested in doing an joint purchase :P
Nov 26 22:50:45 <edistar> ixian_probe: ah... nice thinking ;)
Nov 26 22:51:04 <edistar> any germans who want to group-order with me? or dutch people?
Nov 26 22:51:17 <CVirus> any Egyptians ?
Nov 26 22:51:28 <edistar> CVirus: heh, I don't think you'll find many..
Nov 26 22:51:47 <CVirus> I don't think I'll find "any"
Nov 26 22:51:59 <edistar> CVirus: good luck nevertheless
Nov 26 22:52:02 <CVirus> :-)
Nov 26 22:52:25 <LarstiQ> edistar: possibly
Nov 26 22:52:55 <CVirus> edistar: I'll announce for a group purchase on our LUG when the GTA02 is out
Nov 26 22:53:48 * Crofton|home hopes they work out the 850Mhz issue fast
Nov 26 22:53:50 <ixian_probe> hmm.. that's an idea.. I'l contact the local lug/UUG..
Nov 26 22:54:09 <Stephmw> edistar: btw, feel free to pester me when you start having a go
Nov 26 22:54:24 <edistar> I want a lug nearby here.. this place here is really anti-lug ;) only noobs in it ... 3 60+ people and one admin
Nov 26 22:54:29 <edistar> Stephmw: ok :)
Nov 26 22:54:43 <edistar> Stephmw: thx :)
Nov 26 22:55:19 <ixian_probe> tuukkah: hey, tell us if it reaches -79 ^_^ (CO2 freezing point)
Nov 26 22:55:50 <ixian_probe> tuukkah: then our CO2 polution problem might have an low-cost solution ^_^
Nov 26 22:56:28 <tuukkah> they say the world record is -89.2 at antarctica
Nov 26 22:56:42 <CVirus> edistar: in Egypt our LUG reached 5100 member and we had the biggest Linux installation fest in history :-D
Nov 26 22:56:49 <edistar> CVirus: lovely :)
Nov 26 22:56:54 <CVirus> edistar: 2 of the admins were interviewed on slashdot
Nov 26 22:57:09 <edistar> CVirus: is it an egypt-lug or is it regional?
Nov 26 22:57:16 <CVirus> edistar: Egypt LUG
Nov 26 22:57:20 <CVirus> edistar: www.EgLUG.org
Nov 26 22:57:59 <edistar> nice
Nov 26 22:58:38 <CVirus> I've volunteered in two installation fests at my Uni (The German University in Cairo) and we're preparing for the third :-)
Nov 26 23:01:03 <CVirus> oops .. killed dcopserver accidentally
Nov 26 23:06:01 <borg_> ScaredyCat: have you tested you latest build?
Nov 26 23:07:49 <borg_> s/you/your/
Nov 26 23:07:49 <apt> borg_ meant: ScaredyCat: have your tested you latest build?
Nov 26 23:27:24 * CVirus sa
Nov 26 23:28:12 <CVirus> sorry .. stupid dcop
Nov 26 23:34:54 <edistar> gn8
Nov 26 23:37:36 <doughnut42> just got my neo.  cool stuff.  now to get it to work with my 3g sim card...
Nov 26 23:47:53 <borg_> omg... my neo just passed the first fall down test....
Nov 26 23:48:30 <Stephmw> kicked it down the stairs?
Nov 26 23:48:47 <borg_> no, only down the table ;)
Nov 26 23:49:18 * josch kicked it out of the window
Nov 26 23:49:30 <josch> fortunatly there was grass below
Nov 26 23:49:31 <borg_> but the impact sound was pretty violent
Nov 26 23:49:36 <borg_> no :)
Nov 26 23:49:49 <borg_> you can't do that.. :)
Nov 26 23:49:52 <borg_> how high?
Nov 26 23:50:51 <josch> second floor - but no damage due to the grass
Nov 26 23:50:57 <borg_> phew
Nov 27 00:16:51 <abraxa_> josch: Do you mean "second floor" or "zweiter Stock"?
Nov 27 00:17:31 <josch> abraxa_, oh... where's the difference?
Nov 27 00:17:43 <josch> ah "zweiter stock" is third floor isn't it?
Nov 27 00:18:04 <josch> I mean "zweites stockwerk" :-D
Nov 27 00:20:38 <balrog-kun> how's the aerodynamics of the neo1973?
Nov 27 00:21:58 <abraxa_> josch: Yeah, US folks add one :)
Nov 27 00:23:41 <balrog-kun> that's like fortran vs. C arrays
Nov 27 00:23:55 <josch> balrog-kun, no, I will not do any additional tests ^^
Nov 27 00:23:56 <Writchie> Europe is 0 based
Nov 27 00:24:56 <Writchie> US emergency dial number is 911 but it has to be said as Nine One One. 
Nov 27 00:25:38 <Writchie> people actually failed to summon help becaue they couldn't find the eleven key on the dial telephone ;)
Nov 27 00:25:42 <SirBob1701> Hi all hows it going
Nov 27 00:26:01 <abraxa_> rofl Writchie 
Nov 27 00:26:03 <balrog-kun> heh
Nov 27 00:26:07 <abraxa_> Heya Sir Bob
Nov 27 00:26:11 <Writchie> true story
Nov 27 00:26:29 <Writchie> the same reason telephone layout is opposite from adding machine. 
Nov 27 00:26:40 <abraxa_> Eh?
Nov 27 00:26:43 <josch> omg?
Nov 27 00:26:51 <abraxa_> And yeah, I wondered about that
Nov 27 00:26:55 <josch> xplain
Nov 27 00:27:53 <Writchie> only 5% of US knew how to use an adding machine - they were smart enuf to change - the rest as measured by test were too freaked out by the adding machine layout.
Nov 27 00:29:43 <abraxa_> And that's beneficial...why?
Nov 27 00:30:21 <Writchie> people expert in adding machines could dial a 7 digit number in about 1.5 seconds.
Nov 27 00:31:28 <SirBob1701> ... why do you know that
Nov 27 00:31:43 <balrog-kun> proabbly using voice dialling
Nov 27 00:31:44 <Writchie> something to do with the grey hairs
Nov 27 00:32:01 <SirBob1701> Hey i have gray hair and i'm 21 so that mean i'm a genius
Nov 27 00:32:03 <Writchie> fortran array is probably correct. 
Nov 27 00:32:45 * balrog-kun is happy to not know that first-hand
Nov 27 00:32:48 <Writchie> you count elements as natural numbers. 
Nov 27 00:33:40 <Writchie> and the sense switches on an IBM 1620 were numbered 1 - 6 
Nov 27 00:34:04 <abraxa_> 1620...
Nov 27 00:34:14 <abraxa_> Writchie, you must be a Methusalem =(
Nov 27 00:34:57 <Writchie> and its sexadecimal
Nov 27 00:35:14 <Writchie> and giga has a "j" at the front
Nov 27 00:35:19 <josch> not sexagesimal?
Nov 27 00:55:59 * mwester suspects that Writchie is almost as ancient as is he
Nov 27 00:56:36 <Writchie> nah, I didn't start till Fortran II
Nov 27 01:04:23 <Crofton|home> 6800 machine language
Nov 27 01:04:54 <Writchie> 8008 hand assembly - much later than Fortran II
Nov 27 01:16:59 <mwester> 8008 Altair?
Nov 27 01:17:46 * mwester learned machine language on a Cosmac ELF 1802-based SBC, and finally got his dream computer in college - a KIM-I
Nov 27 01:19:12 * SpeedEvil has an 1802 - somewhere
Nov 27 01:22:00 * Writchie first home computer was a national SC/MP connected to an ASR-33
Nov 27 01:23:16 * Writchie which he fried by testing nmos chip termperature with his finger!
Nov 27 01:23:20 <SpeedEvil> I think I took an ASR/33 apart once.
Nov 27 01:23:29 <SpeedEvil> I was about 8
Nov 27 01:23:41 <Writchie> i rember a model 15
Nov 27 01:23:59 <Writchie> IIRC
Nov 27 01:27:46 * Writchie actually it was PMOS
Nov 27 01:28:14 <Writchie> which could be tried by looking at it the wrong way!
Nov 27 01:28:52 <Writchie> /s/tried/fried/
Nov 27 01:29:06 <Writchie> s/tried/fried/
Nov 27 01:29:06 <apt> Writchie meant: /s/fried/fried/
Nov 27 01:30:54 <mwester> :)  ASR-33 -- yep, I carted one of those off when the college replaced them with DecWriters -- which could work at a blazing 1200 baud!!!   I had the ASR-33 in my apartment for a few years.
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Nov 27 02:59:57 2007