**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Nov 28 02:59:56 2007
Nov 28 03:38:47 <hozer> hrrm
Nov 28 03:38:55 <hozer> I am having issues with the gprs manual connect..
Nov 28 03:45:08 <hozer> it used to work..
Nov 28 04:10:44 <xzcvczx> nnpiggy: you are a god :P
Nov 28 05:47:30 <NineX> jousto1: hi
Nov 28 05:47:40 <jousto1> NineX: Hi
Nov 28 05:49:42 <gusjdt> hey guys, anyone here?
Nov 28 05:49:50 <NineX> gusjdt: mornin
Nov 28 05:51:24 <gusjdt> just sent ya a PM
Nov 28 05:52:10 <NineX> jousto1: look at PM from me please
Nov 28 05:52:24 * CM yawns
Nov 28 05:52:58 <gusjdt> its been a while since I used IRC, I dont remember the commands for private speak or whisper, whatever its called
Nov 28 05:53:12 <CM>  /msg
Nov 28 05:53:50 <gusjdt> woops..
Nov 28 05:55:56 <gusjdt> anyways, I came here in hope of finding some help regarding QEMU and openmoko, specifically setting up the USB connection
Nov 28 05:56:21 <gusjdt> actually, I just want to run the hello world app on the emulator, so I can go ahead and do my own stuff
Nov 28 05:56:35 <CM> gusjdt: Did the wiki not help? :)
Nov 28 05:57:07 <gusjdt> not really, Ive been trying to get it to work for weeks following the wiki
Nov 28 05:57:40 <CM> Oh, ok. Maybe try the part that tuukkah just added: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/OpenMoko_under_QEMU#Simple_network_connection_with_pppd
Nov 28 05:58:07 <gusjdt> yes, I just saw that a few minutes ago, what does it mean by QEMU command line?
Nov 28 05:58:27 <gusjdt> (Im new to linux, but Im getting there slowly.. :D)
Nov 28 05:59:08 <CM> It's that when you start qemu, you add that after it. 
Nov 28 05:59:23 <CM> qemu -serial vc -serial pty
Nov 28 05:59:35 <gusjdt> oh! so it would be make run-qemu -serial vc -serial pty?
Nov 28 05:59:54 <CM> Not sure the makefile can take those arguments
Nov 28 06:00:03 <gusjdt> all right, let me try that..
Nov 28 06:00:40 <CM> gusjdt: I'm not using qemu much and don't know it so well, but tuukkah, balrog-kun and some others know a lot. I'm sure they'll wake up soon (7 am CET now)
Nov 28 06:01:19 <gusjdt> its 2 AM here, Im about to sleep, but I will be back later today for sure, wish I had found out about this channel before!
Nov 28 06:01:37 <CM> Welcome back later on then :)
Nov 28 06:01:47 <gusjdt> thanks 8)
Nov 28 06:02:37 <gusjdt> hm.. didnt work, heres the output: The program 'qemu' is currently not installed.  You can install it by typing:
Nov 28 06:02:37 <gusjdt> sudo apt-get install qemu
Nov 28 06:02:37 <gusjdt> bash: qemu: command not found
Nov 28 06:03:09 <gusjdt> it thinks qemu is a command? : /
Nov 28 06:03:57 <gusjdt> oh well, I will try later today, hopefully I can speak with tuukkah, thanks very much, CM!
Nov 28 06:11:44 <blindcoder> moin
Nov 28 07:56:53 <Hopscotch> good morning
Nov 28 08:00:05 <emdete> mojn, mojn ;)
Nov 28 08:35:34 <needhelp> Hi! I need your help. Iam collecting points in page listed below. If you be so kind, please click url below. http://www.3dwhite.lt/?click=56a3cdcf22ccc7ab5f0a7f4d2bc900ff
Nov 28 08:35:55 <josch> -_-
Nov 28 08:36:53 <josch> someone using our chan for this really needs help ^^
Nov 28 08:38:29 <NineX> ~slap needhelp
Nov 28 08:38:32 * apt slaps needhelp, keep your grubby fingers to yourself!
Nov 28 09:13:41 <CIA-14> 03thomas * r3524 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-dialer2/ (ChangeLog src/phone-kit/moko-dialer.c): 
Nov 28 09:13:41 <CIA-14> * src/phone-kit/moko-dialer.c: (dialer_init_gsmd): Connect gsmd handlers
Nov 28 09:13:41 <CIA-14> before setting phone power
Nov 28 09:20:00 <cdbot2> * * OM Bug 1035 has been created by thomas(AT)openedhand.com
Nov 28 09:20:02 <cdbot2> * * MokoGsmdConnection floods the console with debug messages
Nov 28 09:20:03 <cdbot2> * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1035
Nov 28 09:30:00 <cdbot2> * * OM Bug 1036 has been created by hrw(AT)openedhand.com
Nov 28 09:30:02 <cdbot2> * * Contacts crash if addressbook.db is broken
Nov 28 09:30:03 <cdbot2> * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1036
Nov 28 09:41:01 <cdbot2> * * OM Bug 1037 has been created by hrw(AT)openedhand.com
Nov 28 09:41:02 <cdbot2> * * Clock redrawing is ugly
Nov 28 09:41:03 <cdbot2> * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1037
Nov 28 10:02:45 <flexd_> eek
Nov 28 10:02:47 <flexd_> ghost phone number
Nov 28 10:02:48 <flexd_> :(
Nov 28 10:03:03 <flexd_> i called someone about a cisco AP, and they said they were gonna get some guy to call me
Nov 28 10:03:06 <flexd_> and now i missed the call
Nov 28 10:03:13 <flexd_> and i try to call back and the number isnt in use :p
Nov 28 10:04:30 <Bubbi> haha thats kindda weird. :S
Nov 28 10:04:35 <kimnotyz1> hm.. sounds like a conspiracy xD
Nov 28 10:04:53 <flexd_> It's like the secret cisco society
Nov 28 10:04:57 <flexd_> of elite people :p
Nov 28 10:05:06 <Bubbi> wonder if they know about it themselves.. maybe they forgot to pay the phone bill :P
Nov 28 10:05:12 <flexd_> meh
Nov 28 10:05:15 <flexd_> i'l wait until he calls again
Nov 28 10:05:20 <flexd_> hope he does, this thing annoys me :/
Nov 28 10:05:31 <kimnotyz1> may they just won't talk to you
Nov 28 10:05:51 <Bubbi> Cisco is one of the leaders in networking.. they just can't fix their own :-D
Nov 28 10:07:34 <kimnotyz1> its like the household of an electrican.. he can do everything but nothing works @home -.-
Nov 28 10:09:35 <buz> this is pretty standard fare for big companies, really
Nov 28 10:09:45 <buz> (banks notoriously do this)
Nov 28 10:13:35 <kimnotyz1> hm really? sounds interesting.. can you explain it to me buz?
Nov 28 10:14:07 <buz> the usual explanation is that they dont want to leak internal phone numbers
Nov 28 10:14:27 <buz> because usually its a department rather than an individual thats responsible for your account
Nov 28 10:14:38 <kimnotyz1> mh ok
Nov 28 10:14:55 <kimnotyz1> so they use "fake numbers" so that you dont get the direct dial-in number?
Nov 28 10:15:16 <buz> some use fake numbers, some call anonymous, the sanest one use global call center numbers
Nov 28 10:15:33 <kimnotyz1> ok.. thx
Nov 28 10:15:55 <buz> the ones that call anonymous always have to call me twice
Nov 28 10:16:02 <buz> i refuse to answer anonymous calls
Nov 28 10:16:23 <webjames> can't you ask the network to track the call?
Nov 28 10:16:27 <Tronic> I never get anonymous TM calls.
Nov 28 10:16:46 <Tronic> Those guys, for some reason, seem to be using their own numbers.
Nov 28 10:16:46 <buz> i neither know nor particularly care
Nov 28 10:17:22 <Tronic> That leaves one of my friends, with a secret number, as the only person calling m eanonymous.
Nov 28 10:18:03 <kimnotyz1> hm i hate anonymous, too. i dont answer any anonymous calls.
Nov 28 10:18:38 <buz> worst thing is foreign calls which sometimes dont carry caller id
Nov 28 10:18:56 <buz> because someone along the way dropped it
Nov 28 10:20:24 <cjb_ie_> especially the cheap carriers
Nov 28 10:20:42 <kimnotyz1> hm thats worse.. but never happend to me.. ive got often international calls.. most from switzerland, new zealand and america (NY).. (im living in germany)
Nov 28 10:20:53 <dread> hi, while working through the AppDev Crash Cours, my make process complains "ERROR: BBFILE_PATTERN_upstream not defined
Nov 28 10:20:56 <dread> ERROR: BBFILE_PATTERN_local not defined"
Nov 28 10:21:23 <dread> that ihom, because i defined BBFILE_COLLECTIOn = "upstream local overlay"
Nov 28 10:21:35 <buz> kimnotyz1: european ones usually work, but calls from HK notoriously yield "unknown" caller id
Nov 28 10:22:03 <kimnotyz1> hm ok
Nov 28 10:22:04 <dread> as described, but only BBFILE_PATTERN_overlay = ""
Nov 28 10:22:17 <dread> none for upstream or local
Nov 28 10:22:41 <dread> ca i just omit them or whats the pattern i should use there?
Nov 28 10:22:49 <kimnotyz1> can you nopaste your setenv?
Nov 28 10:23:28 <kimnotyz1> well take a look here:
Nov 28 10:23:43 <kimnotyz1> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/User:CesarB/Using_a_local_overlay
Nov 28 10:23:48 <dread> sure: http://nopaste.unixfreunde.de/297
Nov 28 10:23:53 <kimnotyz1> seems as if your problem is discribed there
Nov 28 10:24:44 <kimnotyz1> you have to edit your local.conf in your overlay.. see link
Nov 28 10:26:48 <dread> the pattern entries, right?
Nov 28 10:28:52 <dread> ah, okay :-) it seems to be working, thank you :-)
Nov 28 10:30:09 <kimnotyz1> np
Nov 28 10:31:16 <ccube_> hi
Nov 28 10:34:15 <kimnotyz1> hi
Nov 28 10:43:03 <ccube_> hey, s.o. here?
Nov 28 10:45:08 <kimnotyz1> yea
Nov 28 10:48:41 <ccube_> perhaps you know where to get the pw for #openmoko-devel
Nov 28 10:48:42 <ccube_> ?
Nov 28 10:50:39 <kimnotyz1> look into the wiki.. its for internal developers only
Nov 28 10:51:01 <kimnotyz1> "Theres also a #openmoko-devel channel, which is for OpenMoko internal developers only, sorry."
Nov 28 10:51:57 <CM> ccube_: Why do you want that channel?
Nov 28 10:52:51 <ccube_> uuh
Nov 28 10:53:24 <ccube_> i just want to learn sth about the structure.
Nov 28 10:53:45 <ccube_> i bought the phone fur development
Nov 28 10:53:57 <ccube_> not just for installing the firmware
Nov 28 10:53:59 <CM> So did most of the people in here :)
Nov 28 10:54:41 <ccube_> yeah, but i didnt know that there are some people in the other room, where the access is restricted. ;)
Nov 28 10:55:18 <CM> Well, there are language specific openmoko-channels and other channels too
Nov 28 10:56:37 <kimnotyz1> ccube_: you can develop anything ^^ notjust install the firmware ;-)
Nov 28 10:57:43 <ccube_> yes, but why there is an forbidden channel?
Nov 28 10:57:50 <ccube_> makes no sense for me... 
Nov 28 10:58:16 <kimnotyz1> take a look into the wiki etc.. there is much information about this
Nov 28 10:58:34 <kimnotyz1> think its better if they program a final release without additional help from outside, so that we have a working release
Nov 28 10:58:49 <kimnotyz1> where we can do anything.. like GPRS without console etc
Nov 28 10:59:20 <ccube_> perhaps its slowing down everything, when they dont want help from outside...
Nov 28 10:59:34 <ccube_> searching the wiki for IRC gives no results. :(
Nov 28 10:59:46 <CM> Well, that's just bad
Nov 28 11:00:01 <josch> is there any way to attach a photo camera to the gta01? 
Nov 28 11:00:03 <CM> IRC: #openmoko at freenode.net should be on the first page
Nov 28 11:00:22 <ccube_> yes, this is where we are :)
Nov 28 11:00:47 <kimnotyz1> there is usb ;-)
Nov 28 11:00:55 <josch> but unpowered usb
Nov 28 11:01:04 <kimnotyz1> but you can power it
Nov 28 11:01:11 <josch> with a powered hub?
Nov 28 11:01:24 <josch> can I then use any usb device on my neo?
Nov 28 11:01:30 <kimnotyz1> as example, yes
Nov 28 11:01:30 <kimnotyz1> or you build a circuit which powers the usb for you.
Nov 28 11:01:30 <dread> ccube_: sometimes it's a lot easier to work on thing in a small team without big discussions, need for long explanations, etc. especially if there is no time ;-)
Nov 28 11:01:37 <kimnotyz1> yes
Nov 28 11:01:41 <kimnotyz1> that my opinion too
Nov 28 11:01:50 <kimnotyz1> josch: if you got a module and software for it..
Nov 28 11:02:01 <josch> what software?
Nov 28 11:02:10 <kimnotyz1> josch: software to use the device?!
Nov 28 11:02:11 <josch> you mean to read from the cam?
Nov 28 11:02:13 <kimnotyz1> yes
Nov 28 11:02:16 <ccube_> yeah, thats right. but this is not, what i expected
Nov 28 11:02:27 <kimnotyz1> and a driver (kernelmodule) which talks to the camera..
Nov 28 11:02:48 <josch> kimnotyz1, well, if my linux host can do this - why shouldn't openmoko be able to do such a thing?
Nov 28 11:02:51 <kimnotyz1> ccube_: but its the best i think.. so we get a release where we can relaly work on
Nov 28 11:03:05 <josch> yeah - as I understand I just have to modprobe a kernel module
Nov 28 11:03:06 <kimnotyz1> josch: i didnt say that your openmoko cant do it..
Nov 28 11:03:31 <kimnotyz1> josch: think you have to compile your own module.. because in the most cases there is no precompiled module.. 
Nov 28 11:03:56 <josch> so using a powered usb hub will allow me to use any us device... very good...
Nov 28 11:04:25 <ccube_> ok, i know, that i cannot change everything. but im really disappointed and spent much money in it
Nov 28 11:04:43 <kimnotyz1> ccube_: where is your problem?
Nov 28 11:06:40 <josch> ccube_, I think you misunderstood something
Nov 28 11:06:59 <dread> uhm ... my qemu just said "connected to gsm network" :-O  is there an emulation working? :-)
Nov 28 11:07:00 <ccube_> my problem is, that the development process is very slow, and then i realized that the developers are a closed group and every talks in this channel are about the hardware and how to get something to run. i just didnt find any development channel or sth
Nov 28 11:07:15 <kimnotyz1> ccube_: mailinglist..
Nov 28 11:07:49 <abraxa_> ccube_: There are several developers right here - they're just not the most outspoken bunch because they rather work.
Nov 28 11:07:49 <kimnotyz1> ccube_: and the development speed was the reason why they said "we develop it on our own.. until we have a reallly working release, than we will open anything"
Nov 28 11:08:36 <ccube_> yes, i understand. but this is not what i wanted für 500$
Nov 28 11:08:38 <ccube_> :)
Nov 28 11:08:43 <ccube_> but its ok.
Nov 28 11:08:49 <kimnotyz1> what did you expect?
Nov 28 11:09:03 <CM> What's the name of the german channel?
Nov 28 11:09:10 <kimnotyz1> you got a device, you got a working kernel, you got a working build environment
Nov 28 11:09:23 <kimnotyz1> you can do ANYTHING.. 
Nov 28 11:09:39 <abraxa_> CM: #voodoo ;)
Nov 28 11:09:44 <CM> Hehe
Nov 28 11:09:51 <josch> CM, neo1973-germany
Nov 28 11:09:53 <kimnotyz1> Ahhh a witch!
Nov 28 11:10:13 <ccube_> dunno
Nov 28 11:10:22 <ccube_> perhaps ive got just a bad day
Nov 28 11:10:38 <ccube_> dont like closed groups... :)
Nov 28 11:10:47 <abraxa_> ccube_: Is there anything you expected and didn't get in particular?
Nov 28 11:11:32 <kimnotyz1> ccube_: its the only way they got if they want something that really works i think
Nov 28 11:13:17 <abraxa_> Guess he opted for a "just a bad day" option ;)
Nov 28 11:13:55 <kimnotyz1> yeah ^^ 
Nov 28 11:20:43 <Bubbi> any developers on that is working on some cool feature for openmoko? - just asking of pure interest :-)
Nov 28 11:21:53 <flexd_> alot of people are working on cool stuff, you need to be specific :p
Nov 28 11:22:07 <abraxa_> Bubbi: Does it help if I say "yes" but need to shoot you if I'd tell you what it is? ;)
Nov 28 11:23:09 <Bubbi> flexd_: specific.. nooohhh!.. well i'm very interested in the GPS part of the phone.. :-P
Nov 28 11:23:39 <Bubbi> abraxa_: heh, plz don't shoot me.. :) I'm not very good at taking bullets :-D
Nov 28 11:23:49 <abraxa_> ;D
Nov 28 11:24:24 <abraxa_> Bubbi: Do you own a device?
Nov 28 11:26:04 <Bubbi> abraxa_: nope.. haven't got one yet, i'm unfortunately not a very good developer myself. Well... i am.. but primarily a WEBdeveloper.. so i haven't got the skills needed :D So i'm just waiting to the official release
Nov 28 11:26:22 <abraxa_> Good decision then.
Nov 28 11:26:44 <Bubbi> But as soon as the hardware have been cleaned up nicely and is working, i'm gonna buy one :-P
Nov 28 11:27:06 <Bubbi> then the software can always be installed later.. that's the least of the problems.. 
Nov 28 11:27:16 <abraxa_> Exactly
Nov 28 11:27:17 <josch> right
Nov 28 11:28:09 <josch> but even a stable hardware release is far from being finished - I don't believe in the december date
Nov 28 11:30:18 <Bubbi> you are probably right josch, unfortunately there have been som issues regarding the hardware as far as I have read
Nov 28 11:30:40 <Bubbi> it would have been a nice christmas present though
Nov 28 11:31:30 <josch> I would sadly say: forget it :-/
Nov 28 11:32:01 <josch> even when it's out before dec. 24 the shipping time will be too long to reach you fast eneough
Nov 28 11:33:02 <Bubbi> heh, yeah.. i'm living in Denmark (Northern Europe), so the shipping would take at least a week, more likely 2 weeks
Nov 28 11:35:46 <Bubbi> But some were saying that they were working on some nice features/applications? :-D Please enlighten me :-)
Nov 28 11:36:37 <josch> Bubbi, enlighten is the right word in thihs case ^^
Nov 28 11:37:26 <josch> my personal favorite feature/application will be enlightenment on openmoko
Nov 28 11:38:00 <cdbot2> * * OM Bug 1038 has been created by kristijan.krsteski(AT)gmail.com
Nov 28 11:38:01 <cdbot2> * * Problem in trying to make openmoko-devel-image..
Nov 28 11:38:02 <cdbot2> * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1038
Nov 28 11:38:59 <Bubbi> haha very well, didn't see that comming :-D
Nov 28 11:46:20 <King_InuYasha> why is it that the GPS device needs a non-Free driver?
Nov 28 11:46:50 <ScaredyCat> because gps chip manufacurers are gits
Nov 28 11:47:54 <ruskie> does it?
Nov 28 11:48:06 <ruskie> I thought only the AGPS bit needed some non-Free crap?
Nov 28 11:48:21 <ScaredyCat> the theory goes that htere's so many patents and so much re going on in taiwan and china that if people got to see the driver sources of any of the chips they'd all be in court, permanenely
Nov 28 11:48:34 <King_InuYasha> blech....
Nov 28 11:48:42 <ruskie> so let them be in court permanently
Nov 28 11:48:52 <King_InuYasha> why is it so bad to see the source code of a driver for a GPS device?
Nov 28 11:49:26 <ScaredyCat> yeah, they'll do that, go to court so we can get the source... in other news pigs are flying regularly nowadays
Nov 28 11:49:55 <ScaredyCat> see my previous comment
Nov 28 11:50:32 <abraxa_> King_InuYasha: Because in this case the software does the hard work - including the US-enforced limitations for ammunition as far as I know. You don't want the Neo to be classified as a weapon just because of the GPS ;)
Nov 28 11:51:53 <ruskie> I wouldn't mind that...
Nov 28 11:52:25 <King_InuYasha> so why cant it be embedded and handled by hardware and let the software just communicate I/O?
Nov 28 11:53:42 <mjr> it is in gta02
Nov 28 11:53:47 <mjr> and this all is quite the faq
Nov 28 11:53:49 <ruskie> cause it's cheaper to do it in sw :)
Nov 28 11:53:55 <ruskie> O.o
Nov 28 11:55:33 <josch> we need an open source gps driver to do all the missile guiding stuff we build the neo for! really!!
Nov 28 11:55:37 <Lynet> Is the GPS limitations a US export dual use technology thing only, or are there regs/laws in other countries also?
Nov 28 11:56:04 <mjr> No idea. I'd guess mostly US and its bitches.
Nov 28 11:56:30 <Bubbi> heh, its bitches even ..? :-P
Nov 28 11:57:20 <abraxa_> Lynet: Even if it's the US only it's still a major problem. As soon as there's an open alternative to a closed driver the Neo must be classified as a weapon because it cannot meet the GPS restrictions anymore as everyone is able to use the open driver then
Nov 28 11:57:35 <balrog-kun> i think it's the masonry
Nov 28 11:57:37 <abraxa_> That in turn would kill the entire market for the Neo in the US
Nov 28 11:58:02 <ScaredyCat> you say that like it's a bad thing :P
Nov 28 11:58:09 * ScaredyCat prods mwester
Nov 28 11:58:12 <King_InuYasha> hey... I live in the US
Nov 28 11:58:13 * ScaredyCat sniggers
Nov 28 11:58:19 <josch> so... lets develop an open source driver for every gps modul out there and kill the market!
Nov 28 11:58:19 <King_InuYasha> i want to be able to buy one of those
Nov 28 11:58:19 <cjb_ie> abraxa_: the neo, and anything else using the same gps chipset
Nov 28 11:58:27 <abraxa_> cjb_ie: Yup
Nov 28 11:58:35 <King_InuYasha> doesnt the Garmin chipset have an opensource driver?
Nov 28 11:58:58 <josch> King_InuYasha, but garmin does everything in hardware
Nov 28 11:59:06 <balrog-kun> King_InuYasha: no, afaik
Nov 28 11:59:18 <mjr> abraxa_, doubtful, or at least the regulation has seemed to concern a complete GPS solution, not potential parts thereof
Nov 28 11:59:37 <Bubbi> josch: about enligthenment.. where can i read about it.. i have tried to find it on the wiki, but i'm not sure if i'm looking at the right page.. -- http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/E17  ??
Nov 28 11:59:39 <Lynet> Meh. I s'pose someone should do the kill crypto regs thing, write and publish a design for a gps receiver.
Nov 28 12:00:07 <balrog-kun> Bubbi: http://www.enlightenment.org/
Nov 28 12:00:09 <josch> Bubbi, just do make build-package-e-wm <= yeah it's REALLY that simple
Nov 28 12:00:18 <abraxa_> mjr: Well, I wouldn't put my bets on it either way. The neo can be interfaced so easily that a judge could claim that it would be a perfect missile guidance device...
Nov 28 12:00:26 <CIA-14> 03thomas * r3525 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-dialer2/ (ChangeLog src/phone-kit/moko-dialer.c): 
Nov 28 12:00:26 <CIA-14> * src/phone-kit/moko-dialer.c: (dialer_init_gsmd):
Nov 28 12:00:26 <CIA-14> - Add back PIN handler registration
Nov 28 12:00:26 <CIA-14> - Correct error handling from lgsm_phone_power
Nov 28 12:00:58 <Lynet> mjr: I s'pose it would be somewhat similar to the wireless/fcc thingie, where different countries have different regs on output power and frequencies, and the limitations are handled by driver.
Nov 28 12:02:13 <Bubbi> balrog-kun: oh, i see :-) thank you very much!
Nov 28 12:02:47 <kimnotyz1> please dont write too loud, maybe the airforce is reading this stuff xD and then the openmoko is qualified as weapon xD
Nov 28 12:02:56 <Lynet> abraxa_: Then again, if you have the resources to build a missile it wouldn't be a stretch to assume that you also are able to source some gps chips w/source from some clone shop in china.
Nov 28 12:04:08 <Bubbi> josch: I have no clue to what you wrote there :-P i'm unfortunately not that big a linux guy (yet), but I hope to have time after new year to sum up on it :)
Nov 28 12:04:39 <abraxa_> Lynet: Yes, but you don't *really* expect lawyers to have common sense, do you?
Nov 28 12:04:53 <josch> Bubbi, ah sry - I thought you where already into downloading the openembedded environment, building openmoko and testing it in qemu ^^
Nov 28 12:04:55 <Lynet> abraxa_: Point. 
Nov 28 12:04:58 <abraxa_> ;)
Nov 28 12:05:28 <ruskie> hmm can't find reference to "[12:53:47] <mjr> and this all is quite the faq"
Nov 28 12:06:25 <josch> NOTE: package wesnoth-0.01+svnr21008-r1: task do_compile: completed
Nov 28 12:06:42 <Lynet> wesnoth for Neo?
Nov 28 12:06:47 <josch> aye!
Nov 28 12:06:54 <Bubbi> josch: heh, i'm sad to say no, even though I have tried qemu (the binary for windows), I haven't been able to do anything else.. as this is unfortunately a brand new world for me :-D
Nov 28 12:07:00 <abraxa_> ruskie: "and this is all quite the frequently asked question" - sounds right, because it is frequently asked - just maybe not frequently documented ;)
Nov 28 12:07:33 <ruskie> hmm bzflag on the neo would be nice...
Nov 28 12:08:15 <balrog-kun> with portable VR glasses that you connect to the headphones jack
Nov 28 12:08:29 <Lynet> I thought the existance of a Quake port was the hallmark of a cool platform.
Nov 28 12:08:31 <ruskie> lol
Nov 28 12:08:42 <kimnotyz1> yes.. like ipodlinux ;-)
Nov 28 12:08:47 <abraxa_> ruskie: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Hardware:AGPS at "Q: Is an open source GPTS daemon..."
Nov 28 12:13:13 <ruskie> abraxa_, ahhh... so only necessary for agps and even then not necessary due to being able to do it once per charge or such..
Nov 28 12:13:37 <abraxa_> Come again?
Nov 28 12:15:59 <ruskie> sorry didn't read the whole lot
Nov 28 12:16:11 <hrw> morning
Nov 28 12:16:13 <hrw> http://blog.haerwu.biz/2007/11/28/audio-routing-in-mobile-phones/
Nov 28 12:16:47 <abraxa_> ruskie: It's fine, I just didn't quite get what you were trying to say :)
Nov 28 12:17:49 <mbuf> when i "inherit autotools" in .bb, if I have an install target, how can i make "make build-package-foo" not do the install target?
Nov 28 12:18:28 <ruskie> hmm but still why doesn't the gps chip itself solve the issues that are solved in a closed driver?
Nov 28 12:18:48 <cjb_ie> it's cheaper to do it in software
Nov 28 12:19:47 <ruskie> yes.. I'm aware of that bit...
Nov 28 12:20:04 <King_InuYasha> how much cheaper though?
Nov 28 12:20:21 <abraxa_> ruskie: The chip was chosen before OpenMoko was thought of (GTA01 is inherited from a different project at FIC) and they chose to use a software-based GPS because it's cheaper and binary drivers are common on Windows anyway
Nov 28 12:22:21 <ruskie> I wonder if the driver will ever change...
Nov 28 12:22:47 <abraxa_> ruskie: No point pondering, the hardware will go anyway and the new chip does it all in hardware
Nov 28 12:23:11 <ruskie> ahh
Nov 28 12:23:17 <ruskie> didn't see that bit anywhere
Nov 28 12:23:39 <ruskie> sorry for the misunderstanding...
Nov 28 12:23:52 <ruskie> so now it will trully be open top to bottom?
Nov 28 12:24:16 <abraxa_> GTA02, yes
Nov 28 12:24:47 <ruskie> joy
Nov 28 12:25:04 <josch> also gsm? ;-)
Nov 28 12:25:09 <ruskie> hmm no fm radio... ohh well... but I can live without for the most part...
Nov 28 12:25:31 <ruskie> doesn't the gsm bit do stuff in hw and is interfaced through AT commands only?
Nov 28 12:26:17 <King_InuYasha> so if the GTA02 does it all in hardware, does it mean that the chip can have an OSS driver?
Nov 28 12:26:30 <abraxa_> King_InuYasha: Even better - it needs no driver at all
Nov 28 12:26:33 <ruskie> fm radio, digital compass and sound level meter is the few bits I would like :)
Nov 28 12:26:47 <King_InuYasha> :)
Nov 28 12:26:49 <King_InuYasha> wait
Nov 28 12:26:57 <King_InuYasha> so how does applications get information thewn?
Nov 28 12:26:59 <King_InuYasha> *then?
Nov 28 12:27:15 <cjb_ie> it'll just be a serial device emitting an NMEA stream
Nov 28 12:27:27 <King_InuYasha> ahh
Nov 28 12:27:36 <cjb_ie> gpsd or dbus won't need a driver to relay the info
Nov 28 12:27:53 <King_InuYasha> though one thing that was peculiar is why didnt they plan for camera in it?
Nov 28 12:28:08 <balrog-kun> that's a FAQ
Nov 28 12:28:11 <abraxa_> King_InuYasha: The design was inherited and lots of people do not want cameras
Nov 28 12:28:16 <King_InuYasha> ahh
Nov 28 12:28:49 <King_InuYasha> well, the good thing is the software could theoretically be used on other mobile devices
Nov 28 12:29:13 <abraxa_> In practice, too ;)
Nov 28 12:29:14 <King_InuYasha> the bad thing is, the options for the OpenMoko software are currently limited
Nov 28 12:29:33 <King_InuYasha> sometimes i really hate Windows Mobile
Nov 28 12:29:41 <King_InuYasha> im getting paid to fix this phone that was bricked
Nov 28 12:29:43 <King_InuYasha> and guess what?
Nov 28 12:30:02 <King_InuYasha> the phone keeps self-disconnecting from the PC and borking the flashing of WM6
Nov 28 12:30:13 <King_InuYasha> the HTC Hermes 100
Nov 28 12:31:05 <abraxa_> Guess why we're all into OpenMoko ;)
Nov 28 12:31:44 <ruskie> :)
Nov 28 12:31:54 <ruskie> no camera is a Good Thing (TM)
Nov 28 12:31:54 <zash> King_InuYasha: flash it with om instead! ;)
Nov 28 12:32:12 <King_InuYasha> I cant
Nov 28 12:32:18 <King_InuYasha> OM doesnt yet support it
Nov 28 12:32:23 <zash> :(
Nov 28 12:32:27 <King_InuYasha> and Hermes 100 has TWO cameras
Nov 28 12:32:33 <King_InuYasha> one for video and one for stills
Nov 28 12:32:44 <zash> print out a screenshot of wm6 and glue it to the display
Nov 28 12:32:46 <King_InuYasha> no one has managed to get the Hermes 100 to run Linux
Nov 28 12:33:01 <King_InuYasha> XDA people got close
Nov 28 12:33:02 <King_InuYasha> but
Nov 28 12:33:29 <King_InuYasha> after kernel loads, nothing works according to them
Nov 28 12:33:39 <King_InuYasha> and this stupid ROM updating app doesnt work right....
Nov 28 12:34:22 <jmichel> I get this error when updating my OM build: could not connect to server (http://svn.nslu2-linux.org) 
Nov 28 12:34:57 <jmichel> I guess this server is down... but it was doing that 8 hours ago also
Nov 28 12:36:41 <Bubbi> well.. there's a favIcon on the server.. heh, not much else.. :-S
Nov 28 12:39:53 <jmichel> Bubbi: maybe but the update doesn't complete because of this error
Nov 28 12:40:20 <jmichel> Bubbi: Anything I can do to prevent the error
Nov 28 12:40:27 <jmichel> Bubbi: ?
Nov 28 12:40:55 <CIA-14> 03thomas * r3526 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-dialer2/ (13 files in 3 dirs): 
Nov 28 12:40:55 <CIA-14> * data/Makefile.am:
Nov 28 12:40:55 <CIA-14> * src/phone-kit/dialer-main.c: (main):
Nov 28 12:40:55 <CIA-14> * src/phone-kit/moko-talking.c: (moko_talking_init):
Nov 28 12:40:55 <CIA-14> MokoStock seems to be unreliable, so include and load images ourselves
Nov 28 12:40:56 <CIA-14> for now
Nov 28 12:41:37 <CM> rwhitby: http://svn.nslu2-linux.org seems to be empty
Nov 28 12:42:09 <josch> jmichel, rwhitby is the creator of the makefile he can help you with your problem
Nov 28 12:42:18 <rwhitby> CM: yes, that's as it should be.
Nov 28 12:42:25 <CM> Ah, ok :)
Nov 28 12:42:31 <rwhitby> http://svn.nslu2-linux.org/svnroot/mokomakefile/trunk/ has data.
Nov 28 12:42:32 <josch> well... why??
Nov 28 12:42:50 <josch> ah okay
Nov 28 12:43:15 <CM> jmichel: Then maybe there's something wrong with your network? I just did a complete rebuild of OpenMoko with no problems
Nov 28 12:43:31 <rwhitby> svn.nslu2-linux.org is definitely up.
Nov 28 12:43:40 <holycow> hello moko monkeys!
Nov 28 12:43:54 <rwhitby> $ uptime
Nov 28 12:43:54 <rwhitby>  12:43:42 up 79 days, 16:22,  2 users,  load average: 0.15, 0.17, 0.15
Nov 28 12:44:04 <abraxa_> Holy Cow!
Nov 28 12:44:06 <CM> It is, i was just suprised I couldn't browse from the root dir :)
Nov 28 12:44:10 <holycow> !moo!
Nov 28 12:44:22 <CM> holycow: Hehe
Nov 28 12:44:34 <holycow> :)
Nov 28 12:44:42 * mwester-road looks about with bleary eyes, puts a pot of coffee on, and curses this "working for a living" concept.
Nov 28 12:44:45 <King_InuYasha> will there be an office suite for OpenMoko?
Nov 28 12:44:55 <jmichel> CM: ok... sorry about that it was a proxy problem from my side
Nov 28 12:45:03 <jmichel> now it's working
Nov 28 12:45:08 <CM> :)
Nov 28 12:46:44 <abraxa_> King_InuYasha: Yeah sure, if you can get OpenOffice to run... Abiword already works aside from the cluttered UI ;)
Nov 28 12:46:57 <abraxa_> Aside from that I haven't heard of any plans
Nov 28 12:49:31 <Bubbi> jmichel: sorry for the lack of replying.. work got in the way ;-) But I don't know what you could do about this.. 
Nov 28 12:51:18 <Bubbi> jmichel: oh, i see that you got someone else to reply :-P i'm not that big a fan of reading everything before i reply :D
Nov 28 12:52:09 <Bubbi> jmichel: glad you got it working again though..
Nov 28 12:52:30 * holycow buys a lottery ticket for mwester-road
Nov 28 13:03:11 <josch> if I plug my neo in a powered usb hub - will it charge?
Nov 28 13:03:40 <kimnotyz1> with 100mA
Nov 28 13:03:42 <kimnotyz1> yes
Nov 28 13:03:45 <josch> why?
Nov 28 13:03:52 <josch> why not 500mA?
Nov 28 13:03:59 <cjb_ie> no upstream device to approve request for 500mA
Nov 28 13:04:11 <kimnotyz1> this topic was on the mailinglist before several days
Nov 28 13:04:15 <kimnotyz1> yes\
Nov 28 13:04:55 <josch> aren't there any hubs that can approve to charge with 500mA?
Nov 28 13:05:07 <mjr> you can force it from the neo side, apparently
Nov 28 13:05:10 <mjr> nowadays
Nov 28 13:05:24 <Bubbi> How do you charge the Neo "fast" then?
Nov 28 13:05:29 <josch> mjr, this is good
Nov 28 13:05:32 <josch> but how?
Nov 28 13:06:44 <mjr> echo -n "fast_cccv" > /sys/devices/platform/s3c2410-i2c/i2c-adapter/i2c-0/0-0008/chgmode
Nov 28 13:07:05 <josch> great!
Nov 28 13:07:30 <mjr> Bubbi, usually by hooking it up to a smart usb host that will give it permission to fast charge. Or see above.
Nov 28 13:07:45 <josch> so I'm able to use a powered usb hub to fast charge my neo AND use all the usb stuff like an flash stick or a camera?
Nov 28 13:08:10 <mjr> josch, with a kludged three-pronged cable maybe
Nov 28 13:08:43 <mjr> to use usb devices, you need to hook up to the hub's B socket
Nov 28 13:08:43 <josch> mjr, why?
Nov 28 13:08:54 <mjr> to get power, you need to hook up to the hub's A socket
Nov 28 13:08:55 <josch> please explain
Nov 28 13:09:10 <mjr> hubs don't provide power to USB hosts
Nov 28 13:09:29 <josch> so what sense make powered usb hubs then?
Nov 28 13:09:48 <mjr> so you'd need to attach the neo to both the host-direction por tof the hub, and to one of the gadget-directed ports (with only power lines attached)
Nov 28 13:09:59 <mjr> They power USB devices. Duh.
Nov 28 13:10:39 <josch> ah! never knew this
Nov 28 13:11:21 <Pitbullpc> mjr, do you know nbd?
Nov 28 13:11:32 <nbd> ?
Nov 28 13:11:47 <Pitbullpc> ah, ndb is here. good.
Nov 28 13:11:47 <mjr> presumably you could hack a hub to push power "upstream", but I wouldn't plug it into any standard USB host anymore after that...
Nov 28 13:12:00 <mjr> (and by "hack" I mean "hw hack")
Nov 28 13:12:31 <Pitbullpc> nbd, i was told by Pierre that you were working with the AR6001 and may be interested in some discussion on that
Nov 28 13:12:39 <nbd> yeah
Nov 28 13:13:10 <Pitbullpc> i don't have much time this morning, but when is a good time to catch you on here
Nov 28 13:13:53 <nbd> depends
Nov 28 13:13:59 <nbd> just ping me again when it's convenient for you
Nov 28 13:14:14 <Pitbullpc> will do
Nov 28 13:14:38 <Pitbullpc> let's start with this. what interfaces are you exploring on the ar6001?
Nov 28 13:15:04 <nbd> i was trying to make the atheros driver work with the linux mmc/sdio stack
Nov 28 13:15:23 <nbd> but the problem that i was having is that the card kept giving me timeouts at semi-random times during the init
Nov 28 13:15:54 <balrog-kun> sameo got the ar6001 working afaik
Nov 28 13:15:59 <Pitbullpc> yeah, Pierre mentioned the brutal 1 sec timeouts for everything
Nov 28 13:16:18 <nbd> balrog-kun: hm. interesting. i'll try his driver soon
Nov 28 13:16:39 <stefan_schmidt> balrog-kun: mvista or mainline SDIO stack?
Nov 28 13:17:20 <balrog-kun> stefan_schmidt: afaik mainline sdio stack + openmoko (i.e. sameo's) s3c24xx SDIO driver
Nov 28 13:17:20 <Pitbullpc> who did you get the chips from? ie. do you have any industry support?
Nov 28 13:17:24 <balrog-kun> the code is at http://svn.openmoko.org/developers/sameo/patches/ar6k-atheros/
Nov 28 13:18:11 <stefan_schmidt> balrog-kun: mainline would be nice.
Nov 28 13:18:24 <stefan_schmidt> Pitbullpc: The chip is in our upcoming device
Nov 28 13:18:29 <nbd> Pitbullpc: they were sent to me by openmoko. never got a datasheet or any real support
Nov 28 13:18:29 <stefan_schmidt> Pitbullpc: GTA02
Nov 28 13:19:17 <stefan_schmidt> nbd: yeah, that sucked
Nov 28 13:19:24 <Pitbullpc> well, that sucks
Nov 28 13:19:46 <Pitbullpc> i might be able to provide some help in that area
Nov 28 13:19:55 <stefan_schmidt> sameo is working on it now. Also without datasheet but with a contact at atheros
Nov 28 13:20:38 <Pitbullpc> having a contact at Atheros is certainly benificial
Nov 28 13:21:21 <Pitbullpc> i have some contacts with on of the Atheros "authorized design centers", namely Card Access
Nov 28 13:21:38 <Pitbullpc> get info out of them is like pulling teeth sometimes
Nov 28 13:22:42 <balrog-kun> well, sameo also mentioned some funny comments from atheros like "please don't ask about this command, and just use this other command instead"
Nov 28 13:22:59 <Pitbullpc> also, the data sheet is vague and is full of errors. for instance, the register addresses are off by as much as 40 bytes
Nov 28 13:24:32 <Pitbullpc> I was told the that header files in the Atheros provided driver have the correct addresses
Nov 28 13:24:36 <stefan_schmidt> Pitbullpc: You have the datasheet under an NDA that allows you to write a GPL driver?
Nov 28 13:25:51 <Pitbullpc> No, I do not think that I have that leway under out NDA
Nov 28 13:26:41 <stefan_schmidt> Pitbullpc: That's the reason why we don't have the datasheets. We need a GPL driver.
Nov 28 13:27:44 <Pitbullpc> don't you have the Atheros driver? I think that is better than the data sheet
Nov 28 13:28:01 <stefan_schmidt> Pitbullpc: Of course we have. It's the basement.
Nov 28 13:28:13 <NineX> witch kernel options i sholud set on my pc to provide full connectivity support between neo1973 and my pc? i just bound info abut usb network, any other modules i sholud turn on ? any special modules for debugboard or somethink?
Nov 28 13:28:28 <stefan_schmidt> Pitbullpc: GPL driver source and contact at Atheros, nothing more.
Nov 28 13:28:40 <Pitbullpc> so you have the 2.6.9 version that they peddle
Nov 28 13:29:20 <stefan_schmidt> Pitbullpc: No, idea about the special version. You would have to ask sameo for this details.
Nov 28 13:29:33 <balrog> there was a 2.6.18 patch somewhere on sourceforge too, but the current version in svn should work against 2.6.22.5
Nov 28 13:29:59 <Pitbullpc> ah, good info
Nov 28 13:30:13 <Pitbullpc> did you get raw chips or where they on an eval board?
Nov 28 13:30:30 <balrog-kun> Pitbullpc: are you allowed to share the datasheet?
Nov 28 13:30:48 <Pitbullpc> balrog, probably not leagally
Nov 28 13:31:04 <balrog-kun> i see
Nov 28 13:31:38 <stefan_schmidt> Pitbullpc: FIC produces hw so they got the raw chips and build boards for testing
Nov 28 13:31:59 <CM> NineX: I think they are listed in the wiki. You need some for CDC or so to use dfu-util
Nov 28 13:33:08 <Pitbullpc> ok, well maybe this will help. I know that our chips came with a basic bootloader in them. they require being put through calibration before the chip will do anything wifi
Nov 28 13:33:46 <Pitbullpc> it seems to me that FIC would have needed to do the calibration on them before dumping them off for sw devel.
Nov 28 13:33:49 <CM> NineX: CONFIG_USB_ACM (Device Drivers -> USB support -> USB Modem (CDC ACM) support)
Nov 28 13:34:21 <Pitbullpc> have you heard of ART (Atheros Radio Test) program?
Nov 28 13:34:29 <stefan_schmidt> Pitbullpc: I would not be sure about this. sameo was able to go through init already.
Nov 28 13:34:53 <Pitbullpc> can sameo send/receive packets?
Nov 28 13:35:46 <stefan_schmidt> Pitbullpc: IIRC he sent out a probe request
Nov 28 13:36:05 <stefan_schmidt> Pitbullpc: At this point you really should talk to him directly. :)
Nov 28 13:36:25 <stefan_schmidt> Pitbullpc: I just read his internal status mails and are interested in this. :)
Nov 28 13:39:05 <Pitbullpc> thanks, stefan. i would like to help as much as i can
Nov 28 13:39:31 <Pitbullpc> the project I am working on is also using this chip, so i have access to a lot of information
Nov 28 13:39:32 <edistar> hi
Nov 28 13:39:49 <sameo> Pitbullpc: which project is it ?
Nov 28 13:40:19 <Pitbullpc> we were hoping to this chip working in a local bus mode, but that is complete untraveled path to date.
Nov 28 13:40:49 <sameo> Pitbullpc: local bus mode ? what do you mean ?
Nov 28 13:40:59 <Pitbullpc> sameo, it is for a semi-comercial product.
Nov 28 13:41:09 * balrog-kun would also have a quite good use of any additional information on the chip
Nov 28 13:41:24 <sameo> Pitbullpc: can you share the HW details ?
Nov 28 13:41:26 <Pitbullpc> the ar6001 supports, SDIO, CF, SPI, and a pure Local Bus mode
Nov 28 13:42:07 <Pitbullpc> yes, i can elaborate on what we are doing to get it up and the process we are going through
Nov 28 13:43:20 <sameo> Pitbullpc: ok, cool...what is your host CPU ?
Nov 28 13:43:34 <Pitbullpc> we are essentially pairing a iMX31 with the AR6001 for 802.11 capability
Nov 28 13:43:58 <Pitbullpc> iMX31 has an ARM1136jf-s core
Nov 28 13:44:09 <sameo> Pitbullpc: yep...is this over SDIO ?
Nov 28 13:44:16 <Pitbullpc> if you aren't familiar with it, it is a freescale part
Nov 28 13:45:30 <Pitbullpc> originally we wanted to try to use the chip in local bus mode, but it became clear that this was not in the schedule to try and get this working when NOONE else has ever made this chip work in this mode
Nov 28 13:46:39 <Pitbullpc> another point of history is that this chip wasn't intended to be a regular product from Atheros, it was built for a few special customers. selling it to anyone else was an after thought.
Nov 28 13:47:08 <sameo> Pitbullpc: ah, ok, didnt know that...are you using the SDIO sourceforge driver, or are you writing one from scratch ?
Nov 28 13:48:15 <Pitbullpc> When we purchased the chips, we were provided with an Atheros driver based on a 2.6.9 kernel (they use Fedora Core 3)
Nov 28 13:49:33 <Pitbullpc> from a manufacturing standpoint, have you brought up any wifi chips before from scratch (raw chip)
Nov 28 13:49:49 <sameo> Pitbullpc: yes
Nov 28 13:50:18 <Pitbullpc> this is my first experience with essentially building a radio (or adding pure radio chip to a design)
Nov 28 13:50:40 <Pitbullpc> so, i am learning as i go
Nov 28 13:51:20 <sameo> Pitbullpc: ok...so, you're using Atheros 2.6.9 driver, and what is the status of your project ?
Nov 28 13:52:00 <Pitbullpc> i can't comment on how any other manufacturers processes, only Atheros for this chip. with that said, if you hear anything that doesn't sound right, then question it, maybe I made an invalid assumption
Nov 28 13:52:49 <Pitbullpc> we have gone back and forth as to which interface we wanted to use and they has caused some respining of hw.
Nov 28 13:53:22 <sameo> Pitbullpc: Atheros seems to be mostly going into the SDIO/CF direction.
Nov 28 13:53:25 <Pitbullpc> however, the final hardware will support nearly any interface provided by the AR6001.
Nov 28 13:54:20 <sameo> Pitbullpc: but what is your project's status right now, from a functional point of view ?
Nov 28 13:54:44 <Pitbullpc> Since Atheros isn't providing a more updated driver, we are going get the updated version from Card Access
Nov 28 13:55:52 <Pitbullpc> We are also in the first stages of setting up a calibration station so that we can actually load the firmware on the chips and get them calibrated
Nov 28 13:58:38 <sameo> Pitbullpc: so, I assume you don't have a working 802.11 subsystem on your board atm ?
Nov 28 13:59:42 <Pitbullpc> I don't know if you caught this earlier, but we were told the following from Card Access: 1. The AR6001's that are dropped shipped from Atheros do not have any firmware on them, just a basic bootloader. The chips must be loaded with firmware before they can be used. 2. The AR6001's require calibration before they will do anything "wifi". ie. will not send nor receive packets.
Nov 28 13:59:55 <Pitbullpc> that is correct.
Nov 28 14:00:33 <sameo> Pitbullpc: yeah, I know that. We get our wifi chips with a firmware flashed and calibrated.
Nov 28 14:00:49 <sameo> Pitbullpc: yesterday, I managed to associate my GTA to an AP.
Nov 28 14:00:55 <Pitbullpc> that is about 6 weeks away due to the holidays and lead time on purchasing equipment for the calibration station.
Nov 28 14:01:45 <sameo> Pitbullpc: ok, I hope I'll have a fully functional driver by then...
Nov 28 14:01:58 <Pitbullpc> very good, glad to see that you got i up
Nov 28 14:02:24 <sameo> Pitbullpc: be aware that the sourceforge driver (the card access one, I guess) is only valid with Atheros 1.1 firmwares.
Nov 28 14:02:26 <nbd> sameo: does it work with GTA02v2 as well?
Nov 28 14:02:35 <nbd> sameo: or just with later hw fixes?
Nov 28 14:02:47 <sameo> nbd: it should work on a v2
Nov 28 14:02:54 <Pitbullpc> if you have any questions or need some research done, let me know
Nov 28 14:03:04 <sameo> Pitbullpc: thanks, same here :-)
Nov 28 14:03:16 <nbd> i tried the linux sdio stack, but couldn't communicate with the wifi card at all
Nov 28 14:03:27 <Pitbullpc> aw, there is a problem with that firmware
Nov 28 14:03:34 <nbd> and i saw that v3 has some extra pulldowns on sdio, iirc
Nov 28 14:03:36 <Pitbullpc> you can't change tx power levels
Nov 28 14:03:45 <sameo> nbd: yeah, thats with Atheros SDIO stack
Nov 28 14:03:58 <Pitbullpc> in 1.3 it works
Nov 28 14:04:27 <sameo> Pitbullpc: yep, I know but Atheros doesn't plan to have a GPL driver that would be 1.3 compatible.
Nov 28 14:05:24 <Pitbullpc> how different is this driver than the madwifi stuff?
Nov 28 14:06:38 <sameo> Pitbullpc: I don't know exactly, but I looked at the ath5k branch on the wireless kernel git tree, and they seem to be quite different.
Nov 28 14:06:42 <nbd> completely different
Nov 28 14:06:50 <Pitbullpc> does anyone know who FIC is getting support through?
Nov 28 14:07:18 <sameo> Pitbullpc: I know, but I'm probably not allowed to tell it.
Nov 28 14:07:50 <Pitbullpc> sounds like they don't have an NDA?
Nov 28 14:08:16 <sameo> Pitbullpc: who is "they"
Nov 28 14:08:19 <Pitbullpc> FIC
Nov 28 14:08:35 <Pitbullpc> with whom ever they are getting support from
Nov 28 14:08:37 <sameo> Pitbullpc: they do.
Nov 28 14:09:56 <Pitbullpc> well, that is partially good. that just leaves us to reverse engineer the damn chip to make a decent driver
Nov 28 14:10:53 <sameo> Pitbullpc: looking at the sourceforge driver tells you a lot already.
Nov 28 14:11:19 <Pitbullpc> that is my next question, where did that driver come from?
Nov 28 14:11:31 <Pitbullpc> was that actually released by Atheros?
Nov 28 14:12:49 <sameo> Pitbullpc: it's "Copyright (c), 2004-2005 Atheros Communications, Inc."
Nov 28 14:13:45 <Pitbullpc> that sounds like the same crap they were peddling to us
Nov 28 14:14:07 <Pitbullpc> that is the foundation to any other AR6K driver
Nov 28 14:14:13 <edistar> sameo: are you employed by OM?
Nov 28 14:14:21 <sameo> Pitbullpc: it's against 2.6.18
Nov 28 14:16:16 <hrw> edistar: sameo works for OpenedHand
Nov 28 14:16:21 <Pitbullpc> i have seen that somewhere. there is some conflict as to what kernel version it will work under. some of the ducuments i have say 2.6.9 and others say 2.6.18.
Nov 28 14:16:37 <hrw> edistar: and OH do lot of OpenMoko job
Nov 28 14:17:02 <edistar> hrw: thx
Nov 28 14:17:04 <Pitbullpc> either way, I am using a 2.6.19 with intention of going to a 2.6.22 in a month or so
Nov 28 14:17:22 <sameo> Pitbullpc: the sourceforge one is against 2.6.18, and I ported it to 2.6.22, here http://svn.openmoko.org/developers/sameo/patches/ar6k-atheros/
Nov 28 14:17:39 <sameo> Pitbullpc: in case you ever want to use this stuff...
Nov 28 14:18:02 <sameo> edistar: yeah, I work for OpenedHand
Nov 28 14:18:05 <Pitbullpc> does that include the CF interface as well
Nov 28 14:18:28 <edistar> sameo: do you know anything about the progress of the wifi driver in OM?
Nov 28 14:18:58 <hrw> edistar: they talk about it for over half hour ;D
Nov 28 14:19:08 <Pitbullpc> lol
Nov 28 14:19:14 <sameo> edistar: yes, I'm working on it. My guess is that I should have a working driver in a couple weeks or so.
Nov 28 14:19:36 <edistar> oh.. I thought they were talking about Pitbullpcs project..
Nov 28 14:20:00 <Pitbullpc> same chip, same status
Nov 28 14:20:10 <edistar> ok.. ;)
Nov 28 14:20:35 <Pitbullpc> sameo: did your driver address any of the CF code?
Nov 28 14:20:47 <sameo> Pitbullpc: no, SDIO only.
Nov 28 14:21:06 <Pitbullpc> and do you remember seeeing in iMX21 references in the SDIO code?
Nov 28 14:21:29 <sameo> Pitbullpc: yes, they have an iMX21 SDIO host controller driver ready..
Nov 28 14:21:51 <sameo> Pitbullpc: look at http://svn.openmoko.org/developers/sameo/patches/ar6k-atheros/common_atheros_sdiostack.patch
Nov 28 14:21:56 <Pitbullpc> that is the previous and very close version of the iMX31
Nov 28 14:22:20 <Pitbullpc> wrt SDIO
Nov 28 14:22:36 <josch> NOTE: package wesnoth-0.01+svnr21008: completed <= doing ipkg intall now
Nov 28 14:22:39 <Pitbullpc> do you plan on doing any throughput tests?
Nov 28 14:23:02 <edistar> josch: how does wesnoth run, smooth?
Nov 28 14:23:02 <sameo> Pitbullpc: yes, as soon as I can.
Nov 28 14:23:45 <Pitbullpc> one last thing for today. i take it you maintained the "proprietary" SDIO stack included in the driver?
Nov 28 14:24:17 <sameo> Pitbullpc: it's not proprietary at all, it's GPL. And Atheros maintains that.
Nov 28 14:25:13 <josch> edistar, don't know if it even starts up - will try this now
Nov 28 14:25:59 <Pitbullpc> sorry, let me translate -- in this case "proprietary" = "non-standard", as in driver will not work with any other SDIO stack
Nov 28 14:26:38 <Pitbullpc> Atheros subed out the development of the SDIO stack, then decided to buy the company.
Nov 28 14:26:47 <sameo> Pitbullpc: ah, ok...We plan to move to the kernel SDIO stack later on.
Nov 28 14:26:53 <Pitbullpc> which is why they still maintain it
Nov 28 14:29:01 <Pitbullpc> sameo: have you worked on any other wifi chips that have a CF driver?
Nov 28 14:29:12 <Pitbullpc> I am interested in some references
Nov 28 14:30:20 <sameo> Pitbullpc: no, SDIO and SPI only. But if you look at the latest kernel tree, some of the wifi drivers there have a CF interface (the Libertas one comes to my mind...)
Nov 28 14:30:36 <Pitbullpc> the situation is this, the iMX31 has a PCMCIA/CF controller on chip. However, most of the control lines are simply pulled up or down and will never change in an embeded design.
Nov 28 14:31:14 <Pitbullpc> so would it be more prudent to stub out the low level PCMCIA driver functions
Nov 28 14:32:17 <jadams_> I can't get gprs working on my device.  I'm using T-Mobile in the US
Nov 28 14:32:39 <jadams_> I followed the instructions on the wiki, using internet2.voicestream.com as my APN
Nov 28 14:33:44 <edistar> jadams_: I think there are still a few problems with gprs
Nov 28 14:34:22 <rschuster> hi. where is this gallery page where everyone can uploads his/her screenshots of openmoko?
Nov 28 14:34:23 <jadams_> edistar, I had it working fine a month ago
Nov 28 14:34:42 <edistar> oh..
Nov 28 14:34:53 <edistar> rschuster: scap.linuxtogo.org?
Nov 28 14:35:12 <rschuster> edistar: thank you!
Nov 28 14:35:15 <edistar> :)
Nov 28 14:36:11 <edistar> josch: apparently supertux is running..
Nov 28 14:36:11 <sameo> Pitbullpc: but you also want your driver to support SDIO, right ?
Nov 28 14:38:05 <Pitbullpc> we don't think the throughput will be there, but we would still like to consider it as an option. we have a way to switch between interfaces on the fly using a register a CPLD on our board that does the interface mappings.
Nov 28 14:39:09 <Pitbullpc> that should read "register in the CPLD"
Nov 28 14:41:52 <jadams_> ScaredyCat, around?  Curious if you've got gprs working on the latest build
Nov 28 14:42:24 <ScaredyCat> I haven't played yet, aiming to do that later today.... 
Nov 28 14:42:29 <ScaredyCat> (sorry fo rhte delay)
Nov 28 14:47:12 <Pitbullpc> sameo: what is the sourceforge project name? i searched atheros, ar6001, ar6k, and i get nothing?
Nov 28 14:47:40 <sameo> Pitbullpc: it's http://sourceforge.net/projects/sdio-linux/
Nov 28 14:54:38 <jadams_> ScaredyCat, I just always get 'connect script failed'
Nov 28 14:55:13 <jadams_> using both the script on the wiki and a script here (modified to use the appropriate device): http://www.anatifero.us/weblog/2004/10/30/t-mobile-gprs-on-debian/
Nov 28 14:55:56 <josch> okay guys! *drums* wesnoth is up and running!!
Nov 28 14:56:23 <josch> it takes endless to start up but then it's totally smooth and playable
Nov 28 14:56:36 <edistar> josch: cool
Nov 28 14:57:55 <josch> there is still one problem: wesnoth doesn't detect that that there is 640x480 and so defaults tp 320x240
Nov 28 14:58:00 <Pitbullpc> sameo: thanks. i have to run, is this a good time to touch base with you?
Nov 28 14:58:05 <josch> but maybe xrandr fixes this
Nov 28 14:58:08 <edistar> josch: that's not so much a problem, is it?
Nov 28 14:58:27 <edistar> josch: I suppose it would lag if it were VGA
Nov 28 14:58:28 <Xx13> josch: show a screencap 
Nov 28 14:58:34 <sameo> Pitbullpc: np...yep, it is a good time.
Nov 28 14:59:51 <Pitbullpc> sameo: let me know if there is something you think you might need from the data sheet? I may be able to recreate it from memory ;)
Nov 28 15:00:11 <sameo> Pitbullpc: ok, I'll keep that in mind, thanks :-)
Nov 28 15:00:46 <Pitbullpc> sameo: take care, i'll check back in a few days
Nov 28 15:01:11 <sameo> Pitbullpc: all right, take care.
Nov 28 15:01:25 <josch> wohooo!!! it works with xrandr!!
Nov 28 15:02:20 <edistar> josch: make screenshots...
Nov 28 15:02:30 <torpor> can anyone tell me how i can get bitbake to unpack the sources for a package for me?
Nov 28 15:02:39 <CM> josch: scap it
Nov 28 15:02:45 <torpor> there's a way to do that other than to futz with rm_work right (i use rmwork right now)
Nov 28 15:04:21 <josch> yeah! will do this but how do I scap without being able to do a screenshot with holding the aux button etc?
Nov 28 15:04:47 <ScaredyCat> your aux button broke?
Nov 28 15:04:57 <josch> I will upload it on my personal webspace together with a photo to prove that this is no screenshot I took from my host machine :-P
Nov 28 15:05:16 <josch> ScaredyCat, no but the menu doesn't show up while I'm in wesnoth
Nov 28 15:05:18 <NineX> ScaredyCat: how long neo 1973 works with qtopia without charge ?
Nov 28 15:05:21 <ScaredyCat> cat /dev/fb0 >mypic.raw
Nov 28 15:05:22 <CM> josch: ssh in and dump the fb
Nov 28 15:05:50 <ScaredyCat> dunno NineX - tsting that today :)
Nov 28 15:05:57 * CM gives ScaredyCat a cookie
Nov 28 15:06:07 <ScaredyCat> nom nom nom nom
Nov 28 15:06:36 <NineX> ScaredyCat: so , when you will kow , send me a message
Nov 28 15:07:00 * NineX is waiting for a special box full of openmoko ;)
Nov 28 15:07:14 <ScaredyCat> aye
Nov 28 15:08:40 <josch> ScaredyCat, fbgrab filename.png is more comfortable
Nov 28 15:08:55 <ScaredyCat> pussy
Nov 28 15:08:56 <ScaredyCat> :P
Nov 28 15:10:34 <josch> how do I upload to scap without the openmoko tool?
Nov 28 15:10:54 <rschuster> josch: without gpe-scap?
Nov 28 15:11:07 <rschuster> http://scap.linuxtogo.org/tickle.php ?
Nov 28 15:11:30 <josch> rschuster, thx
Nov 28 15:11:37 <josch> did never find a link to this page
Nov 28 15:11:45 <edistar> rschuster: did you make the screenies of the filemanager?
Nov 28 15:11:58 <rschuster> edistar: I did
Nov 28 15:12:04 <edistar> rschuster: nice:)
Nov 28 15:12:08 <rschuster> edistar: It is an example application from SWT
Nov 28 15:12:18 <edistar> rschuster: yep
Nov 28 15:12:25 <edistar> it is quite usable already?
Nov 28 15:12:30 <NineX> ScaredyCat: please when you will know how long neo can work witout charge wit qtopia send me PM , please :>
Nov 28 15:12:56 <ScaredyCat> did I not already say 'aye' ?
Nov 28 15:13:07 <edistar> ;)
Nov 28 15:13:12 <rschuster> edistar: well, handling with the touchscreen is awkward. but it makes a nice app for screenshots :)
Nov 28 15:13:46 <rschuster> edistar: and somehow SWT apps do not have proper theming
Nov 28 15:14:08 <edistar> rschuster: ok
Nov 28 15:14:24 <edistar> josch: how is wesnoth with touch?
Nov 28 15:18:26 <josch> http://scap.linuxtogo.org/tickle.php <= what key should I enter?
Nov 28 15:19:34 <josch> edistar, since you can play wesnoth without keyboard or right mouse button it's perfectly playable!
Nov 28 15:19:44 <edistar> josch: cool :)
Nov 28 15:21:30 * zash thinks starcraft would me cool on the neo
Nov 28 15:21:47 <zash> someone poke blizzard :D
Nov 28 15:21:50 * edistar thinks pacman needs to be ported to neo
Nov 28 15:22:35 * josch also thinks starcraft would be cool
Nov 28 15:22:52 <josch> but imagine the mouse/keyboard you'd have to carry around
Nov 28 15:23:06 <zash> josch: you dont need keyboard for sc
Nov 28 15:23:09 <zash> or mouse
Nov 28 15:23:31 <josch> well... you will loose if you cannot use a proper mouse/keyboard
Nov 28 15:23:36 <zash> s/mouse/more than one mousbutton
Nov 28 15:23:43 <borg_> josch: when i understand the gpe-scap sourcecode right the key is "secret"
Nov 28 15:23:55 <josch> borg_, thx
Nov 28 15:23:57 <borg_> "\r\n--" SEP "\r\nContent-Disposition: form-data; name=\"key\"\r\n\r\nsecret"
Nov 28 15:24:23 <josch> have a look! http://scap.linuxtogo.org/index.php?page=1
Nov 28 15:24:37 <edistar> josch: nice :)
Nov 28 15:24:38 <borg_> NICE
Nov 28 15:24:39 <edistar> VGA?
Nov 28 15:24:42 <borg_> tahts so cool
Nov 28 15:25:06 <edistar> I really want a neo now.... to play :P
Nov 28 15:25:25 <josch> 640x480
Nov 28 15:25:32 <josch> it's just great
Nov 28 15:25:46 <edistar> make some more screenshots :)
Nov 28 15:25:48 <josch> I fulfilled myself a dream now
Nov 28 15:25:54 <borg_> hehe
Nov 28 15:26:01 <josch> edistar, there is nothing special ^^
Nov 28 15:26:10 <edistar> josch: no, but it's wesnoth ;)
Nov 28 15:26:18 <borg_> josch: make a bug in oe and put a link in the sourcode there
Nov 28 15:26:22 <ScaredyCat> swt?
Nov 28 15:26:23 <borg_> that they can make it in the repo
Nov 28 15:26:34 <josch> I'm just gonne make a phote so that everybody believes it runs on the real neo
Nov 28 15:26:38 <borg_> s/in the/to the/
Nov 28 15:26:38 <apt> borg_ meant: that they can make it to the repo
Nov 28 15:26:40 <edistar> ok :)
Nov 28 15:26:50 * ScaredyCat vomits
Nov 28 15:26:50 <borg_> arg
Nov 28 15:26:52 <josch> Shoragan promised to add it to OE for me
Nov 28 15:26:57 <borg_> ok
Nov 28 15:27:45 <jadams_> ScaredyCat, http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/T-Mobile_pppd_scripts fwiw
Nov 28 15:28:07 <jadams_> I also added a column to the APN table on the wiki to add links to working pppd scripts for a given carrier, and linked that
Nov 28 15:28:11 <jadams_> hoping others will follow suit
Nov 28 15:32:34 <CM> josch: Cool!
Nov 28 15:33:24 <josch> ^^
Nov 28 15:33:43 <hdr> how can i buy the gta2 in germany? by shops or only via internet?
Nov 28 15:33:45 <josch> took me only two days - not bad for my first bitbake recipe :-)
Nov 28 15:33:56 <edistar> hdr: only internet at the beginning I suppose
Nov 28 15:33:58 <josch> hdr, you cannot buy it yet
Nov 28 15:34:20 <edistar> hdr: in january or so
Nov 28 15:34:22 <josch> hdr, to get informed right away you may consider joining #neo1973-germany
Nov 28 15:34:46 <hdr> josch: oh thanks
Nov 28 15:34:55 <josch> hdr, np
Nov 28 15:37:17 <CM> josch: How about describing how you did the recipie in the wiki? ;)
Nov 28 15:37:37 <CM> Or at least update the one that's already there, if it wasn't enough
Nov 28 15:38:52 <josch> CM, i learned that mastering bitbake is a lenghty process and better fits into the openembedded wiki
Nov 28 15:39:06 <CM> Ah, also good :)
Nov 28 15:39:12 <josch> there already are articles but I found them not so useful :-/
Nov 28 15:39:21 <josch> there is no real hands on guide
Nov 28 15:39:29 <CM> I tried to make a gtk hello world program before, but never got bitbake to compile it
Nov 28 15:41:00 <josch> I can only repeat what others told me: you learn the best from other's recipes
Nov 28 15:43:02 <jadams_> anyone here have gprs working on their Neo?
Nov 28 15:43:20 <CIA-14> 03sameo * r3527 10/developers/sameo/patches/ar6k-atheros/ (8 files): 
Nov 28 15:43:20 <CIA-14> ar6k-atheros: Platform device hooks.
Nov 28 15:43:20 <CIA-14> We now get a platform device from the gta02 machine file.
Nov 28 15:43:20 <CIA-14> We use it for IO region and IRQ allocation, also for DMA buffer
Nov 28 15:43:20 <CIA-14> allocation.
Nov 28 15:46:56 <CM> jadams_: I've heard some, but it's not reliable
Nov 28 15:53:03 <rschuster> josch: have you done this (wesnoth @ openmoko)?
Nov 28 15:53:14 <josch> rschuster, right
Nov 28 15:53:50 <josch> but there is still a problem: no sound :-/
Nov 28 15:53:58 <josch> any ideas?
Nov 28 15:54:00 <PBeck> hi
Nov 28 15:55:18 <rschuster> josch: what does wesnoth use? sdl?
Nov 28 15:55:29 <josch> rschuster, aye
Nov 28 15:55:30 <rschuster> josch: or better sdl-mixer?
Nov 28 15:55:37 <josch> jop, sdl-mixer
Nov 28 15:55:41 <josch> I installed it
Nov 28 15:56:14 <josch> could this be an sdl-mixer problem?
Nov 28 15:56:15 <rschuster> rschuster: funny. sound was the only thing I had when I compiled openttd for the neo :)
Nov 28 15:56:28 <rschuster> josch: try killing the pulseaudio daemon
Nov 28 15:57:22 <josch> what is the pulseaudio deamon for?
Nov 28 15:57:42 <josch> does openttd also use sdl-mixer?
Nov 28 15:58:01 <rschuster> if it works then - you should consider setting SDL_AUDIODRIVER to esd. pulseaudio can mimic esd. but its possible that you needs plugin packages for pulseaudio then
Nov 28 15:58:15 <rschuster> pulseaudio is for sound what compiz-fusion is for graphics :)
Nov 28 15:58:30 <josch> ah... so... useless :-)
Nov 28 15:59:02 <josch> nope no sound
Nov 28 15:59:13 <josch> now even clicking sound has vanished
Nov 28 15:59:38 <rschuster> try aplay with some system sound. if that doesn't work sdl-mixer wont either
Nov 28 16:00:46 <josch> aplay works
Nov 28 16:01:12 <XorA> rschuster: you mean pulse fscks up all sound but occasionally looks good :-)
Nov 28 16:01:56 <josch> nope still no sound
Nov 28 16:02:12 <josch> aplay works, pulseaudio is killed
Nov 28 16:02:21 <rschuster> XorA: :) except you have hw mixing :)
Nov 28 16:02:43 <josch> what can I try now?
Nov 28 16:03:25 <jadams_> anyone with any gprs or pppd chops care to look at this? http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/T-Mobile_pppd_scripts
Nov 28 16:03:35 <jadams_> it's got output of a failed negotiation with t-mobile for gprs connection
Nov 28 16:03:46 <rschuster> I would compile a mini app playing some sound through sdl-mixer and look what it does using strace, ltrace and finaly gdb :)
Nov 28 16:03:50 <jadams_> looks like it asks for 0.0.0.0, never gets an IP, and fails...
Nov 28 16:04:41 <rschuster> josch: but before that make sure the game's sound settings are ok
Nov 28 16:05:21 <josch> okay will try again but they should be by default
Nov 28 16:09:59 <edistar>  http://konttoristhoughts.blogspot.com/ is it possible(easy even?) to port this to OM?
Nov 28 16:12:00 <josch> error audio: Could not initialize audio: No available audio device
Nov 28 16:12:04 <josch> wut??
Nov 28 16:12:36 <edistar> are there any pics of the neo1973? so you can see the buttons for example?
Nov 28 16:13:13 <kimnotyz1> edistar: wiki?!
Nov 28 16:13:59 <edistar> kimnotyz1: didn't find much yet..
Nov 28 16:15:17 <kimnotyz1> edistar: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Introduction#Photos for more Photos use google
Nov 28 16:15:37 <edistar> kimnotyz1: thx
Nov 28 16:15:53 <kimnotyz1> the link is on the startpage of the wiki...
Nov 28 16:15:54 <josch> so it doesn't matter wether pulsoaudio is on or off - I get this strange "no available audio device" error
Nov 28 16:16:09 <josch> what can I try out?
Nov 28 16:16:13 <kimnotyz1> edistar: for more: http://flickr.com/search/?q=openmoko
Nov 28 16:16:27 <edistar> kimnotyz1: how many buttons, only one or are there two volume buttons too?
Nov 28 16:16:41 <CM> kimnotyz1: Or neo1973 :)
Nov 28 16:17:05 <CM> edistar: There is 2 buttons on a Neo, and that's all.. :(
Nov 28 16:17:16 <edistar> CM: which two buttons? on and aux?
Nov 28 16:17:22 <CM> Yes, that's it
Nov 28 16:17:55 <kimnotyz1> edistar: look into the wiki!
Nov 28 16:18:35 <edistar> kimnotyz1: I did, but a friend told me just now that it had  volume hw buttons, so I was a bit uncertain
Nov 28 16:18:47 <abraxa__> edistar: Seeing UKMP seriously makes me wonder about #1 its performance and #2 the N8xx hardware
Nov 28 16:19:05 <edistar> abraxa__: it works too on the n770
Nov 28 16:19:24 <abraxa__> N7xx as well then, whatev'
Nov 28 16:19:40 <edistar> abraxa__: and that only has 266mhz too
Nov 28 16:20:26 <abraxa__> And UKMP runs fluent? That's such a kick in the nuts for OpenMoko if so.
Nov 28 16:20:40 <edistar> abraxa__: yes.. quite
Nov 28 16:21:28 <edistar> abraxa__: I'm testing it right now
Nov 28 16:21:44 <abraxa__> UKMP is similar to what I want the OM media player to be but performance on the Neo just kicks my ass over and over again
Nov 28 16:21:56 <rschuster> well the nokia devices have a dsp doing the decoding in hw
Nov 28 16:22:02 <edistar> true again..
Nov 28 16:22:08 <abraxa__> ...okay, that explains it then
Nov 28 16:22:12 <rschuster> the modules controlling them are proprietary (thanks nokia)
Nov 28 16:22:24 <rschuster> and there is - of course - no ogg vorbis :)
Nov 28 16:22:27 <abraxa__> rschuster: Do they do video in hw as well?
Nov 28 16:22:57 <edistar> rschuster: there is ogg, it works on my device
Nov 28 16:23:03 <edistar> abraxa__: yes, they do
Nov 28 16:23:06 <rschuster> edistar: yeah but not in hw
Nov 28 16:23:14 <rschuster> sucks you battery and all that
Nov 28 16:23:17 <rschuster> https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=176
Nov 28 16:23:31 <abraxa__> Okay, then I'm not so annoyed with myself anymore.
Nov 28 16:23:38 <rschuster> people want the dsp specs for years to write their own...
Nov 28 16:23:55 <edistar> ah, dsp-accel ogg.. thats not there I think
Nov 28 16:24:04 <hrw> someone use 7port usb hub?
Nov 28 16:24:05 <rschuster> abraxa_: don't know about video
Nov 28 16:24:29 <rschuster> abraxa__: but would make sense to at least support the main cpu with some dsp routines
Nov 28 16:24:44 * abraxa__ nods
Nov 28 16:25:35 <edistar> but only if there is an OSS module for it..
Nov 28 16:26:21 <josch> lol no ogg
Nov 28 16:26:29 <abraxa__> Just bugs me when I see that projects like the UKMP are all I want the OMP to be but I can't even get flawless mp3/vorbis playback because of gstreamer and friends - despite writing in C, whereas UKMP is written in Python...
Nov 28 16:28:01 <josch> well I'm giving up - wesnoth runs without sound
Nov 28 16:28:31 <edistar> josch: got your pic yet?
Nov 28 16:29:07 <josch> edistar, no foto - my camera is too bad to get a focus :-/
Nov 28 16:29:32 <edistar> ok ;)
Nov 28 16:31:30 <jadams_> I got GPRS working with the neo1973/openmoko
Nov 28 16:31:38 <jadams_> works fine
Nov 28 16:31:44 <josch> jadams_, congrats!
Nov 28 16:32:02 <josch> jadams_, did you do it as xplained in the wiki?
Nov 28 16:32:05 <jadams_> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/T-Mobile_pppd_scripts
Nov 28 16:32:26 <jadams_> josch: that didn't quite work for me
Nov 28 16:32:55 <josch> jadams_, did you add your solution to the wiki?
Nov 28 16:33:06 <jadams_> just pasted the link dude
Nov 28 16:33:22 <edistar> what happens if you press on aux?
Nov 28 16:33:48 <josch> jadams_, didn't know you are Knewter
Nov 28 16:35:23 <josch> are there any other apps in openmoko using sdl-mixer?
Nov 28 16:36:03 <kimnotyz1> edistar: you go back to the home screen
Nov 28 16:36:33 <kimnotyz1> and if you press it longer, you have a menu where you can choose between: "Toggle Fullscreen" "Swap Orientation" and "Screenshot"
Nov 28 16:36:45 <kimnotyz1> and it can wake up the device from standby
Nov 28 16:38:57 <jadams_> anyone here used pulseaudio extensively on the neo?
Nov 28 16:39:11 <jadams_> when I killall pulseaudio and then pulseaudio -nC, I get no sinks or sources listed
Nov 28 16:39:47 <NineX> re
Nov 28 16:45:43 <zilux> jadams_: usually I type this: /etc/init.d/pulsaudio stop; /etc/init.d/pulsaudio start
Nov 28 16:50:06 <CIA-14> 03mickey * r3528 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-sample2/ (24 files in 4 dirs): 
Nov 28 16:50:06 <CIA-14> add openmoko-sample2, an autotoolized example application
Nov 28 16:50:06 <CIA-14> this will be used as sample project included in the toolchain
Nov 28 16:51:10 <CIA-14> 03mickey * r3529 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/ (9 files in 7 dirs): move fingerscroll and example into dedicated examples directory
Nov 28 16:56:35 <jmichel> Any ideas about why openmoko-messages2 would not build ?
Nov 28 16:56:45 <jmichel> output is: sms-contacts.c:291: error: 'jana_gtk_utils_treeview_resize' undeclared (first use in this function)
Nov 28 17:00:20 <josch> anybody out there using frozen bubble or supertux with sound?
Nov 28 17:00:31 <josch> these apps also seem to use sdl-mixer
Nov 28 17:01:23 <LittleIdiot> jmichel: either one of the developers checked in broken code or your gtk lib isn't the one that the application needs
Nov 28 17:01:58 <LittleIdiot> try to check out the svn again and then run the make process again
Nov 28 17:02:02 <josch> LittleIdiot, I heard from a lot of other people having exactly the same error
Nov 28 17:02:34 <josch> LittleIdiot, will not work - a lot of people tried it with the same result - something in the code is broken
Nov 28 17:02:45 <LittleIdiot> d'oh!
Nov 28 17:03:15 <LittleIdiot> mock on him/her for commiting broken code! ;)
Nov 28 17:04:00 <jmichel> then can I just bypass the build of this app? how ?
Nov 28 17:04:12 <jadams_> I'd like to see pulseaudio's remote-access module on the device....
Nov 28 17:06:01 <LittleIdiot> jmichel: i don't know that, sorry.. maybe commenting out the line helps...
Nov 28 17:06:42 <LittleIdiot> but then surely svn will say that you've changed the file locally and it will refuse to update...
Nov 28 17:19:38 <jmichel> LittleIdiot: I think I will wait for an update that works
Nov 28 17:24:10 <jmichel> Or maybe someone know how to remove an application from the build? Is there any file (.bb file?) I can modify to prevent an application from building?
Nov 28 17:25:39 <cbrake> how do I adjust the volume in the Media Player app?
Nov 28 17:25:54 <cbrake> trying to play through the speakers, and the volume is pretty low
Nov 28 17:29:01 <cdbot2> * * OM Bug 1039 has been created by dodji(AT)openedhand.com
Nov 28 17:29:02 <cdbot2> * * xglamo corruption
Nov 28 17:29:03 <cdbot2> * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1039
Nov 28 17:32:40 <jens___> cbrake:  good question. does anybody how to globally set the sound level? is there any trick like "press aux 5 times short and then 2 time long" ;) ?
Nov 28 17:33:09 <CoreDump> ugh
Nov 28 17:33:12 <hrw> jens___: ARGH
Nov 28 17:33:17 <edistar> whats that?
Nov 28 17:33:24 <fgau> cbrake: try a fingerscroll gesture from top to buttom
Nov 28 17:33:25 <hrw> why people use colours on irc...
Nov 28 17:33:34 <cjb_ie> that's not colours, that's inverse
Nov 28 17:33:39 * cjb_ie has colours filtered out
Nov 28 17:33:43 <hrw> cjb_ie: same crap
Nov 28 17:33:45 <hrw> ;)
Nov 28 17:33:54 <edistar> yeah.. why and how do you do inverse?
Nov 28 17:34:07 <jens___> i didnt change anything... must be lastet update of my irc client ...
Nov 28 17:34:10 <cjb_ie> hrw: nah, colours is new crap, which we can thank mIRC for - inverse etc are long-established
Nov 28 17:34:40 <hdr> isn't there a chanmode, which forbid colors?
Nov 28 17:34:49 <edistar> heh
Nov 28 17:34:54 <hdr> +c or +S i think
Nov 28 17:35:22 <edistar> jens___: now your writing is normal again, did you do anything special just now?
Nov 28 17:35:57 <jens___> it changed automagically ...
Nov 28 17:36:02 <cjb_ie> edistar: he probably hit some control char at the start of his highlighted line
Nov 28 17:36:07 <edistar> ok
Nov 28 17:36:08 <jens___> but back to the question... any hints?
Nov 28 17:36:30 <cjb_ie> next we know you'll want to send texts in morse...
Nov 28 17:37:03 <Writchie> mickeyl: ping
Nov 28 17:37:06 <borg_> jens___: alsamixer
Nov 28 17:37:43 <fgau> alsamixer or with the settingsgui app
Nov 28 17:38:05 <jens___> borg_: that's already set to 100% and it's still quite low
Nov 28 17:38:40 <edistar> jens___: then it'll stay low
Nov 28 17:39:34 <jens___> damn... hoped that was a sub sound level setting of some more global settings ;)
Nov 28 17:43:05 <mickeyl> Writchie: pong
Nov 28 17:43:15 <hrw> bye
Nov 28 17:43:17 <Writchie> can you think of any good reason not to release the new kernel mux driver code under GPL3?
Nov 28 17:43:56 <mickeyl> Writchie: Can't see a reason.
Nov 28 17:44:12 <mickeyl> but i'm not an licensing expert, tbh.
Nov 28 17:44:21 <mjr> is this a question of "3 in addition to 2" or "3 only"?
Nov 28 17:44:28 <Writchie> 3 only
Nov 28 17:45:06 <mjr> I wouldn't use exclusively a kernel-at-large-incompatible license...
Nov 28 17:45:06 <Writchie> I suppose it could be floated as a 3 and then later changed to a 2 if some valid opposite surfaces. 
Nov 28 17:45:07 <mickeyl> On the GMAE meeting last year, i heard that 3 has implications wrt. to LGPL, but I don't think this is a problem in kernel-space
Nov 28 17:45:27 <so_solid_moo> gplv3 is incompatible with gplv2, surely?
Nov 28 17:45:30 <Writchie> its pure kernel-space - although there are some utilities for testing
Nov 28 17:45:39 <Writchie> in userland
Nov 28 17:45:41 <mjr> so_solid_moo, indeed
Nov 28 17:47:22 <mjr> not sure of the implications assuming that the driver can't be considered a derivative of the kernel
Nov 28 17:47:34 <mjr> well, at least a 3-only driver wouldn't get into the mainline any time soon...
Nov 28 17:48:11 <Writchie> mjr: well if there aren't going to be any GPL3 drivers in mainline that would be nice to know. 
Nov 28 17:49:02 <Writchie> mjr: if binary blobs are derivative why would a gpl3 be?
Nov 28 17:49:15 <Writchie> s/are/are not/
Nov 28 17:49:15 <apt> Writchie meant: mjr: if binary blobs are not derivative why would a gpl3 be?
Nov 28 17:51:16 <mjr> I just mentioned it as a fuzzy area.
Nov 28 17:51:25 <Writchie> ack
Nov 28 17:51:37 <so_solid_moo> I think mjr is right that it likely wouldn't be accepted into the mainline
Nov 28 17:54:23 <Writchie> well since it probably belongs in mainline i guess i'll just use gpl2. The patent provisions, however, could be very useful for drivers used in mobile telephony because of the patent minefield. 
Nov 28 17:54:59 <so_solid_moo> Writchie: you could do it GPLv2+, or you could explicitly dual-license it I suppose
Nov 28 17:55:29 <Writchie> so_solid_moo: I think the dual would defeat the patent provision. 
Nov 28 17:55:45 <so_solid_moo> Writchie: it certainly could do, yeah :/
Nov 28 17:55:54 <mjr> yeah I'd suggest 2+ (or 2+3 if you want to be more spesific); it doesn't have the advantages you mentioned, but it'd at least be one less thing in the way if eventually there's going to be a transition
Nov 28 17:56:28 <cbrake> fgau: that works -- thanks.  Its still a little quiet, but may be the limitation of tiny speakers
Nov 28 17:58:47 <Writchie> i'm not sure that 2+ means anything. Seems to me the kernel license itself is 2. IANAL but I don't see how you can change terms after the fact without destroying the contract formed by the license. 
Nov 28 17:59:25 <so_solid_moo> Writchie: it does mean that if the kernel people want to upgrade later, it's one less piece of code that needs changing ;)
Nov 28 18:00:44 <Writchie> the possibility of future wholesale change is highly unlikely - however there could I suppose be a movement toward GPL3 drivers.
Nov 28 18:02:14 <Writchie> maybe best course is to try GPL3 and see what opposition forms upstream. As the copyright holder I could change it to GPL2 if necessary to get it accepted upstream. 
Nov 28 18:02:53 <Writchie> It really needs to be accepted upstream because of line discpline number and potential ioctl conflicts
Nov 28 18:08:25 <torpor> eh
Nov 28 18:08:36 <mjr> Writchie|lunch, *nod*, of course you can try. I'm not positive of their policy on this.
Nov 28 18:09:01 <mjr> (merely highly certain ;)
Nov 28 18:09:24 <mjr> the patent provisions _would_ be useful
Nov 28 18:11:22 <CIA-14> 03sameo * r3530 10/developers/sameo/patches/ar6k-atheros/ (mach-gta02_wifi.patch s3c24xx_hcd_atheros.patch): 
Nov 28 18:11:22 <CIA-14> ar6k-atheros: More DMA work.
Nov 28 18:11:22 <CIA-14> We know register our DMA channel, and prepare our DMA transfer.
Nov 28 18:28:33 <balrog-kun> Writchie|lunch: have you gotten it to work on the Neo?
Nov 28 18:31:19 * balrog-kun can't help his instinct vaporware alarm goes off when i hear about the future kernel-side muxer
Nov 28 18:48:47 <torpor> whats a good fast drawing lib?
Nov 28 18:49:42 <anrp> what kind of drawing?
Nov 28 18:49:47 <torpor> lines and stuff
Nov 28 18:49:49 <torpor> basic primitives
Nov 28 18:49:52 <anrp> 2d
Nov 28 18:49:54 <anrp> mm
Nov 28 18:50:02 <anrp> i dunno, sdl is pretty good
Nov 28 18:50:03 <torpor> i have been using cairo but its hella slow .. 
Nov 28 18:50:10 <anrp> there isn't much speedup to be had on gta01 tho
Nov 28 18:50:20 <anrp> you using aa?
Nov 28 18:50:38 <torpor> antialiasing?  nope.
Nov 28 18:50:38 <cworth> torpor: If you can provide profiles, we can look into improving cairo.
Nov 28 18:50:58 <torpor> cworth: the problem is floating point on the neo1973 blows anyway .. 
Nov 28 18:51:05 <torpor> cworth: what sort of profiles, tho?  
Nov 28 18:51:07 <anrp> what floating point? :P
Nov 28 18:51:11 <cworth> torpor: Shouldn't matter at all.
Nov 28 18:51:23 <cworth> torpor: cairo doesn't do that much with floating-point
Nov 28 18:51:38 <cworth> torpor: Profiles showing how much time is spent in each function, etc.
Nov 28 18:51:48 <torpor> yeah.
Nov 28 18:53:46 <torpor> what was the toolkit raster was raving about for drawing primitives?
Nov 28 18:56:34 <torpor> i'm really wishing there was a microtile array like solution under cairo .. or perhaps there is, and i'm just not up on the docs?
Nov 28 18:57:32 <cworth> torpor: raster has written the evas canvas
Nov 28 18:57:53 <cworth> torpor: It's quite different than cairo, (mostly concerned with raster primitives, not vectors)
Nov 28 18:58:17 <torpor> hmm..
Nov 28 18:58:28 <torpor> i guess it was evas, but i thought there was another one he was tlaking about.
Nov 28 18:58:38 <torpor> well, i guess i'll just look at what my problem is with cairo speeds right now .. 
Nov 28 18:58:42 <cworth> torpor: Like I said, if you've got something showing an obvious performance problem, we'll be happy to work on fixing it.
Nov 28 18:59:03 <cworth> torpor: Micro-tile array is primarily a storage optimization though?
Nov 28 18:59:09 <torpor> cworth: i'd be happy to show you profiles but i don't have a clue how to do that under openmoko right now .. 
Nov 28 19:00:03 <torpor> cworth: what i'm reading about microtile arrays is that they speed up redraws considerably: http://developer.gnome.org/doc/books/WGA/graphics-libart.html#AEN842
Nov 28 19:00:29 <cworth> torpor: There are tools like gprof that should work anywhere. Things like oprofile are nicer, (don't require special compilation of code), but do require a kernel module and I don't know the status of that with respect to the neo1973 kernel/architecture.
Nov 28 19:01:04 <torpor> yeah, thats all a bit much for me right now .. as it is i'll just dig deeper and see if there's something else i'm doing that might be causing slowdowns .. 
Nov 28 19:01:53 <cworth> torpor: So that page talks about avoiding excessive redrawing. With cairo, if you're redrawing too much, then that's an application problem that should be fixed above cairo.
Nov 28 19:02:15 <torpor> thats what i'm thinking... but still: no plans for such things? 
Nov 28 19:02:28 <torpor> is there a good animation-loop style example for cairo these days?
Nov 28 19:03:17 <cworth> torpor: Various people have been working on "canvas" layers above cairo that are careful to redraw as little as possible, (goocanvas and others for example).
Nov 28 19:03:28 <cworth> torpor: There's really no need for something like that inside of cairo.
Nov 28 19:03:41 <torpor> i  must confess that i have not enough details about such things, but i sure would like to know how it works on neo1973 .. 
Nov 28 19:05:03 <cworth> torpor: You've got an application now, and the next step is to figure out why it's slow, (whether an application or a cairo problem).
Nov 28 19:06:00 <torpor> is goocanvas on openmoko yet?  
Nov 28 19:10:10 <edistar> emdete: now this device.. is it possible to write that for OM?
Nov 28 19:58:25 <josch> yang, XXLT, torpor, rep, RedDog, psal, playya_, pH5, nosyjoe, miip, Maledikt, konqui[tm], kimnotyze, joern_, jkilb_, jens___, j_ack, ixs, Hopscotch, harzi, greentux, freezesucker, folken, Elrond, ecraven, dread, drath, chrustinho, chris^, buz, broedje, andred_, hi all! care to join our great german openmoko channel #neo1973-germany ? most of the time there is more party than here :-)
Nov 28 20:00:01 <cdbot2> * * OM Bug 1040 has been created by cwixon(AT)usa.net
Nov 28 20:00:01 <cdbot2> * * Mediaplayer adds files to a playlist in an unpredictable order
Nov 28 20:00:02 <cdbot2> * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1040
Nov 28 20:03:33 <balrog-kun> the germans have a party and the iphone and they didn't invite anyone else :(
Nov 28 20:04:22 <borg_> balrog-kun: we have a party?
Nov 28 20:04:23 <borg_> where?
Nov 28 20:04:40 <josch> balrog-kun, how os the iphone involved?
Nov 28 20:05:01 <balrog-kun> borg_: in the #neo1973-germany channel
Nov 28 20:05:04 <josch> we could try to "blend" it ^^
Nov 28 20:05:28 <balrog-kun> josch: i don't know but it's mean :-)
Nov 28 20:05:35 <josch> balrog-kun, there is always party in #neo1973-germany :-D
Nov 28 20:05:45 <borg_> balrog-kun: your definition of party is pretty extensive
Nov 28 20:06:26 <buz> balrog-kun: the germans pay more for an iphone than for a laptop but nevermind :)
Nov 28 20:06:42 <abraxa_> Hint: There are no girls in #neo1973-germany.
Nov 28 20:06:55 <josch> buz, well... some brainless ****** pay this...
Nov 28 20:07:04 <josch> abraxa_, aaahh!!
Nov 28 20:07:10 <buz> well the reality distortion field is strong
Nov 28 20:07:47 <balrog-kun> good ;)
Nov 28 20:08:12 <buz> not strong enough to affect me
Nov 28 20:08:15 <josch> are there any gals in #openmoko??
Nov 28 20:08:45 <oppiz> no
Nov 28 20:08:51 <abraxa_> lol
Nov 28 20:08:51 <abraxa_> Yes
Nov 28 20:09:07 <oppiz> and if they are it is the wife or long time girlfriend of a dev.
Nov 28 20:09:22 <buz> probably doesnt get to see him elsewhere :P
Nov 28 20:09:50 <oppiz> see that was one
Nov 28 20:14:01 <cdbot2> * * OM Bug 1041 has been created by cwixon(AT)usa.net
Nov 28 20:14:02 <cdbot2> * * Mediaplayer gets VBR mp3 durations incorrect
Nov 28 20:14:03 <cdbot2> * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1041
Nov 28 20:14:37 <abraxa_> Argh
Nov 28 20:15:18 <josch> lol
Nov 28 20:15:42 <CM> Hehe
Nov 28 20:16:15 <Ebbe> Is it just me (and my Neo), or is the alsa driver broken right now?
Nov 28 20:16:31 <Mononoke> openmoko uses mplayer code as Mediaplayer ?
Nov 28 20:16:56 <Mononoke> cause mplayer had bug simmilar to #1041 :S
Nov 28 20:17:12 <abraxa_> Yeah, it's a libmad issue
Nov 28 20:17:18 <abraxa_> Hence my 'argh' because it's not easy to fix :)
Nov 28 20:17:30 <Mononoke> ah *nod*
Nov 28 20:18:58 <abraxa_> Ebbe: Alsa works but is blocked by PulseAudio most of the time so it's unavailable to other applications
Nov 28 20:19:30 <Ebbe> abraxa_: Wasn't they working side by side for a while?
Nov 28 20:19:48 * josch has problems with sdl-mixer :-/
Nov 28 20:20:34 <abraxa_> Ebbe: Maybe until the point of time where touchscreen click sounds were added
Nov 28 20:21:15 <abraxa_> PulseAudio releases the audio device after 20 (or so) seconds - with touch screen clicks it occupies the device *right* before an application can be started :)
Nov 28 20:22:33 <Ebbe> abraxa_: I'm a bit confused right now.. I don't have pulseaudio running, and nothing will play. I can't even start alsamixer
Nov 28 20:22:47 <josch> abraxa_, any ideas why sdl-mixer isn't working?
Nov 28 20:23:16 <josch> is there anyone running frozen bubble or supertux with sound?
Nov 28 20:23:44 <abraxa_> josch: I thought SDL can only interface Alsa, not PulseAudio
Nov 28 20:24:20 <abraxa_> Ebbe: Hm. I'd try removing pulseaudio from the default runlevel, reboot and see what happens then
Nov 28 20:24:25 <josch> abraxa_, this is why I killed pulseaudio
Nov 28 20:24:30 <abraxa_> Maybe the audio device wasn't closed properly
Nov 28 20:24:44 <josch> hrm.. but I can do aplay
Nov 28 20:25:43 <abraxa_> josch: I'd love to investigate but alas I'm *this* close to getting mplayer integrated fully so I want to finish that first ;)
Nov 28 20:26:05 <josch> abraxa_, I wont hinder you :-D
Nov 28 20:28:47 <torpor> where do i get supertux or frozen bubble?
Nov 28 20:30:09 <josch> torpor, make build-package-supertux ?
Nov 28 20:30:14 <Ebbe> abraxa_: Still no go. Alsamixer says: function snd_ctl_open failed for default: No such device. Maybe I should try an old image, or acknowledge that my Neo is broken
Nov 28 20:30:30 <torpor> josch: is it in a repo somewhere?
Nov 28 20:30:35 <playya_> make sandwich
Nov 28 20:30:55 <abraxa_> Ebbe: Do you hear click sounds upon reboot with PulseAudio running?
Nov 28 20:31:05 <Ebbe> No
Nov 28 20:31:22 <abraxa_> What date is your rootfs?
Nov 28 20:31:30 <josch> playya_, xkcd?
Nov 28 20:31:35 <Ebbe> abraxa_: No sounds at all. madplay, mediaplayer or pulseaudio can play
Nov 28 20:31:49 <josch> Ebbe, I also had this issue a few weeks ago
Nov 28 20:31:59 <torpor> okay seriously, where do i get frozen bubble?  i wanna play too!
Nov 28 20:32:24 <Ebbe> josch: And now it's gone? What did you do?
Nov 28 20:32:30 <ewon> torpor: apt?
Nov 28 20:32:37 <josch> Ebbe, I'm just using a newer image
Nov 28 20:32:50 <josch> torpor, I will try to build it
Nov 28 20:33:01 <Ebbe> I'm using the newest too..
Nov 28 20:33:09 <torpor> and supertux?
Nov 28 20:33:26 <Ebbe> josch: But good to know it is software based :)
Nov 28 20:35:53 <Marcel_M> torpor: http://celtune.morb-design.com/ipk/armv4t/supertux_0.1.2-r1_armv4t.ipk
Nov 28 20:36:07 <torpor> great thanks!
Nov 28 20:36:12 <Marcel_M> np
Nov 28 20:36:21 <torpor> installing it right now!  woot!
Nov 28 20:38:45 <josch> NOTE: package frozen-bubble-1.0.0-r0: task do_build: completed
Nov 28 20:39:05 <josch> and who does want frozen-bubble?
Nov 28 20:39:11 <torpor> me! 
Nov 28 20:39:27 <josch> torpor, will upload the ipk
Nov 28 20:40:27 <borg_> frozen bubble could be nice
Nov 28 20:40:58 <balrog-kun> serve chilled
Nov 28 20:41:01 <borg_> for turn left click on the left screen half, for turn right click on the right screen half and for fire press aux or power
Nov 28 20:41:38 <josch> torpor, http://rabenfrost.net/openmoko/frozen-bubble/
Nov 28 20:42:02 <borg_> 4mb?
Nov 28 20:42:03 <borg_> wow
Nov 28 20:42:07 <torpor> sweet!
Nov 28 20:42:08 <borg_> wasnt it just a perl script?
Nov 28 20:42:14 <Marcel_M> tx josch!
Nov 28 20:42:51 <josch> Marcel_M, sadly I don't habe a repo online :-(
Nov 28 20:43:05 <josch> I have a vserver but not enough space on it
Nov 28 20:43:41 <Marcel_M> should i put it on my rep? i would like to!!
Nov 28 20:44:03 <josch> Marcel_M, just du it ;-)
Nov 28 20:44:06 <CM> josch: I can have it around for a month if you want
Nov 28 20:44:21 <josch> CM, have what around?
Nov 28 20:44:25 <Marcel_M> ok tx!
Nov 28 20:44:25 <CM> (then I'm moving and I don't know what line I'll have it)
Nov 28 20:44:39 <CM> The ipkg, so people can get it. You had a slow line.. :P
Nov 28 20:45:07 <CM> josch: But thanks, I love frozen-bubble :)
Nov 28 20:45:40 <torpor> me too!
Nov 28 20:46:11 <josch> well this server surely is total crap but it's cheap ^^
Nov 28 20:47:43 <torpor> root@fic-gta01:~$ ipkg install http://rabenfrost.net/openmoko/frozen-bubble/frozen-bubble_1.0.0-r0_armv4t.ipk
Nov 28 20:47:46 <torpor> Downloading http://rabenfrost.net/openmoko/frozen-bubble/frozen-bubble_1.0.0-r0_armv4t.ipk
Nov 28 20:47:49 <torpor> Terminatedwtf?
Nov 28 20:47:50 <torpor> Terminated
Nov 28 20:47:50 <torpor> wtf?
Nov 28 20:48:29 <josch> torpor, maybe try wget?
Nov 28 20:48:38 <torpor> did that, same result.
Nov 28 20:48:39 <torpor> terminated.
Nov 28 20:48:51 <josch> ah...
Nov 28 20:48:54 <josch> fail
Nov 28 20:48:59 <CM> torpor: Try from http://claesmogren.com/~cm/neo/frozen-bubble_1.0.0-r0_armv4t.ipk
Nov 28 20:49:00 <josch> one moment will fix this
Nov 28 20:49:11 <josch> ah okay
Nov 28 20:49:17 <josch> then use CM's version ^^
Nov 28 20:49:28 <CM> My copy :)
Nov 28 20:51:06 <torpor> ok trying it now
Nov 28 20:51:18 <torpor> i gotta say, since i moved to a root-on-sd config, it rocks.
Nov 28 20:51:34 <CM> Plenty of space
Nov 28 20:51:38 <torpor> yup
Nov 28 20:51:39 <torpor> 1gig
Nov 28 20:51:43 <CM> I tried to get firefox working today.. Was a pain :D
Nov 28 20:52:08 <CM> It compiled, and the ipkg installed, but segfaulted when run..
Nov 28 20:52:17 <torpor> probably something simple.
Nov 28 20:52:24 <cjb_ie> that's what firefox does anyway :p
Nov 28 20:52:26 <torpor> like missing resource files or such ..
Nov 28 20:52:54 <CM> torpor: Yes, it complained on a default.xlt or so
Nov 28 20:53:05 <CM> torpor: http://rafb.net/p/mcqZx555.html
Nov 28 20:53:19 <CM> .xpm it was..
Nov 28 20:54:37 <torpor> whats the normal way to restart the app manager?  just xserve- restart?
Nov 28 20:56:09 <torpor> root@fic-gta01:~$ ipkg install  http://claesmogren.com/~cm/neo/frozen-bubble_1.0.0-r0_armv4t.ipk
Nov 28 20:56:12 <torpor> Downloading http://claesmogren.com/~cm/neo/frozen-bubble_1.0.0-r0_armv4t.ipk
Nov 28 20:56:15 <torpor> Terminated
Nov 28 20:56:17 <torpor> wtf?
Nov 28 20:56:33 <josch> lol?
Nov 28 20:56:49 <CM> Hehe.. Full disk?
Nov 28 20:57:00 <torpor> nope
Nov 28 20:57:27 <torpor> root@fic-gta01:~$ ipkg -V 3 install ./frozen-bubble_1.0.0-r0_armv4t.ipk  
Nov 28 20:57:28 <torpor> Terminated
Nov 28 20:57:33 <torpor> no frozen bubble for me.  :(
Nov 28 20:57:37 <CM> :-/
Nov 28 20:59:20 <josch> torpor, fear not
Nov 28 20:59:31 <josch> I think my upload was incomplete
Nov 28 20:59:47 <josch> torpor, try it out again now
Nov 28 20:59:51 <torpor> url?
Nov 28 20:59:54 <josch> http://rabenfrost.net/openmoko/frozen-bubble/frozen-bubble_1.0.0-r0_armv4t.ipk
Nov 28 20:59:56 <CM> That explains why wget didn't complain
Nov 28 21:00:21 <CM> 7.2mb is bigger.. ;)
Nov 28 21:01:12 <josch> CM, wesnoth is 77MB ^^
Nov 28 21:02:10 <borg_> perhaps we could make some smaller graphics for frozen-bubble for the neo
Nov 28 21:02:19 <borg_> the program itself is just a 5000 line perl script
Nov 28 21:02:21 <borg_> :X
Nov 28 21:02:42 <josch> borg_, it uses perlsdl, no?
Nov 28 21:02:52 <torpor> can't yuou just use imagemagick convert scripts to resize everything as needed?  or is the code braindead and hardcoded with dimensions?
Nov 28 21:03:12 <borg_> dont know, but the code is a mess
Nov 28 21:03:28 <abraxa_> You said that already when you mentioned perl ;)
Nov 28 21:03:50 <anrp> ooh, a dig
Nov 28 21:04:06 <borg_> http://homepages.upb.de/olaf/dinge/frozen-bubble.txt
Nov 28 21:04:09 <borg_> thats it
Nov 28 21:04:24 <borg_> one file, lots of function, no comments :)
Nov 28 21:05:34 <josch> borg_, sounds great! will have a lock at it some time
Nov 28 21:05:41 <borg_> :P
Nov 28 21:06:46 <torpor> argh, no perl dependency in the frozen bubble packge ! 
Nov 28 21:08:13 <borg_> :)
Nov 28 21:09:47 <CM> Wtf!
Nov 28 21:10:10 <josch> CM, ??
Nov 28 21:10:14 <CM> I just wrote a live svn ebuild and it seemed to have worked on the first try :D
Nov 28 21:10:19 <CM> For openocd that is
Nov 28 21:10:19 <torpor> Can't locate vars.pm in @INC (@INC contains: /etc/perl /usr/local/lib/perl/5.8.8 /usr/local/share/perl/5.8.8 /usr/lib/perl5 /usr/share/perl5 /usr/lib/perl/5.8 /usr/share/perl/5.8 /usr/local/lib/site_perl   .) at /usr/bin/frozen-bubble line 40.
Nov 28 21:11:02 <josch> torpor, I'm on to it
Nov 28 21:11:18 <torpor> perl-misc
Nov 28 21:11:55 <josch> torpor, there is no package perl-misc
Nov 28 21:12:42 <torpor> ther eis here
Nov 28 21:13:20 <josch> torpor, you can do make build-package-perl-misc ?
Nov 28 21:13:28 <josch> torpor, do you have perl installed?
Nov 28 21:13:40 <josch> vars.pl is one of the core modules
Nov 28 21:13:56 <torpor> yup
Nov 28 21:14:11 <torpor> i have perl-misc
Nov 28 21:14:15 <torpor> but still no vars.pm
Nov 28 21:14:34 <torpor> can you do a what provides var.pm?
Nov 28 21:14:37 <torpor> since you have it working.
Nov 28 21:14:59 <josch> I don't have it working ;)
Nov 28 21:15:05 <josch> I just compile the packages for you
Nov 28 21:15:06 <torpor> perl-module-vars ..
Nov 28 21:15:10 <torpor> i see.
Nov 28 21:17:19 <torpor> ah well its not working
Nov 28 21:17:32 <josch> I have a similar problem with mokopedia
Nov 28 21:17:43 <josch> it's perl and appearently needs a perl module
Nov 28 21:17:57 <josch> that I can find in no package I can build with openembedded
Nov 28 21:18:39 <torpor> ah well
Nov 28 21:18:41 <torpor> i'm off to bed.
Nov 28 21:18:43 <torpor> g'night!
Nov 28 21:18:56 <josch> gnight
Nov 28 21:28:10 <krLun> hello all
Nov 28 21:28:24 <CM> Evening :)
Nov 28 22:21:26 <tuxi> hi
Nov 28 22:22:37 <abraxa_> sers
Nov 28 22:23:02 <tuxi> wieviel kostet der versand nach deutschland?
Nov 28 22:23:54 <CM> tuxi: Jemand ins #neo1973-germany weiß..
Nov 28 22:24:45 <Mononoke> It wouldn't be bad idea to have game like this http://www.travelpod.com/traveler-iq/game1 on openmoko (just not in flash :S)
Nov 28 22:24:55 <Mononoke> and grr I can't get over lvl 12 ;.;
Nov 28 22:25:21 <CM> Heh, I can't even get it to run in swfdec-mozilla
Nov 28 22:27:07 <tuxi> there should be an radio alarm that would be cool
Nov 28 22:27:32 <josch> tuxi, using cron and aplay this is perfectly possible
Nov 28 22:27:51 <tuxi> yeha but wifi needed
Nov 28 22:28:35 * Mononoke uses cron and mplayer All_the_songs_I_hate/* as alarm
Nov 28 22:28:50 <josch> lol @ Mononoke 
Nov 28 22:29:58 <Vegar> that reminds me I need to get a new alarm sound on my mobile
Nov 28 22:30:01 <CM> josch: He should add Schnappi to that list if it's not already in there.. ;)
Nov 28 22:30:12 <Vegar> just hearing the first tones gives me the creeps
Nov 28 22:30:31 <josch> CM, no this would be too cruel
Nov 28 22:30:45 <Mononoke> but game of "find this place on map of world" would be good and educating
Nov 28 22:31:53 <CM> Mononoke: Ah, I'd like a shot at that :)
Nov 28 22:33:51 <Mononoke> CM: http://x86.sk/~social/Screenshot.png
Nov 28 22:34:08 <CM> Mononoke: Oh, looks cool
Nov 28 22:34:26 <zash> can one set some timer, suspend, and it wakes up again
Nov 28 22:34:26 <CM> But that was a tricky question..
Nov 28 22:34:44 <CM> The Neo? I doubt that.. 
Nov 28 22:35:12 <zash> not?
Nov 28 22:35:15 <CM> If it's in the 12Mhz slow mode it should work, but I wonder about sleep
Nov 28 22:35:17 <Mononoke> don't think that you can set timer that would wake up machine after suspending on linux at all
Nov 28 22:35:36 <CM> Well, if there was an external timer that sent an interrupt, it would work
Nov 28 22:35:55 <zash> but, on my old nokia i can set an alarm and then turn the phone off
Nov 28 22:36:02 <zash> and it wakes up
Nov 28 22:36:13 <CM> It has a separate chip for that
Nov 28 22:36:46 <CM> Can't remember for sure, but I think that was discussed about a year ago, and someone said that there was no timer chip on it. IIRC..
Nov 28 22:37:13 <zash> well, that sucks
Nov 28 22:37:31 <wildfire> Mononoke, but isn't music relaxing? surely cat /dev/urandom > /dev/audio what guarantee you would wake up?
Nov 28 22:37:51 <zash> cat /dev/urandom > /dev/dsp
Nov 28 22:38:14 <Mononoke> wildfire: heh it's same as listening to some ambient noise music :)
Nov 28 22:38:27 <ljp> wow, man th elights!
Nov 28 22:40:20 <CM> CM: Tried to search the logs.. SpeedEvil knows more about it but I didn't find the particular discussion I was thinking of.
Nov 28 22:45:18 <krzyduck> hello everybody
Nov 28 22:46:35 <Vegar> CM: so the neo can't be used as an alarm clock?
Nov 28 22:47:02 <CM> Vegar: Well, not if you power it off I guess..
Nov 28 22:47:13 <Vegar> CM: if it's suspended
Nov 28 22:47:57 <CM> Not if it doesn't have an auxilary chip that can interrupt the suspended state
Nov 28 22:48:08 <CM> the gsm modem can wake it up.. But I don't know if there's a timer
Nov 28 22:48:27 <Vegar> I bet SpeedEvil would know
Nov 28 22:48:39 <mjr> I'd find it a bit insane if it didn't have a timer
Nov 28 22:48:45 <CM> Yes, he's been talking about it before
Nov 28 22:48:55 <mjr> no idea of course what's the actual situation
Nov 28 22:49:06 <abraxa_> zash: Judging by the S3C manual, the built-in RTC can wake up the power management: "The RTC generates an alarm signal at a specified time in the power-off mode or normal operation mode. In normal operation mode, the alarm interrupt (ALMINT) is activated. In the power-off mode, the power management wakeup (PMWKUP) signal is activated as well as the ALMINT."
Nov 28 22:49:23 <CM> abraxa_: Oh, that's good! :D
Nov 28 22:49:23 <abraxa_> Now whether that's a synonym for waking up the CPU from suspend I do not know.
Nov 28 22:49:35 <CM> It sounds like it..
Nov 28 22:49:43 <Vegar> nice
Nov 28 22:50:11 <CM> Guess powermanagement has to work first though.. ;)
Nov 28 22:50:21 * CM gets some sleep..
Nov 28 22:50:23 <Vegar> that's just details
Nov 28 22:50:25 <abraxa_> Yeah but at least it does seem possible :)
Nov 28 22:50:29 <abraxa_> Good night, CM
Nov 28 22:50:41 <zash> nn cm
Nov 28 22:50:52 * zash goes to sleep as well
Nov 28 22:55:30 <LaF0rge> abraxa: we only use the rtc in the pcf50606/pcf50633, not the cpu
Nov 28 22:57:40 <Vegar> LaF0rge: so it's possible to wake it from suspend?
Nov 28 22:58:45 <Writchie> Yes - but with only one second resolution IIRC.
Nov 28 22:58:59 <josch> isn't this enough?
Nov 28 22:59:09 <Writchie> depends what you want to do. 
Nov 28 22:59:26 <Writchie> if you want to check something 10 times a second its not enuf. 
Nov 28 23:00:00 <Writchie> don't know if pcf50633 is any different - no public spec sheet yet. 
Nov 28 23:00:02 <LaF0rge> vegar: yes, obviously the PMU can wake the cpu on alarm.  IIRC that should actually be already implemented
Nov 28 23:00:10 <nelson> Y'know, I thought at first that the soapbar format was going to be REALLY FUGLY.
Nov 28 23:00:10 <Vegar> cool
Nov 28 23:00:18 <LaF0rge> pcf50633 public spec sheet: I need to remind nxp about that
Nov 28 23:00:19 <nelson> But you get used to it, and it's not bad.
Nov 28 23:00:39 <LaF0rge> writchie: if you want sub-second wakeups, then you don't want to go into full suspend-to-ram and resume-from-ram anyway
Nov 28 23:00:39 <Writchie> i assume its pretty similar except for USB power supply
Nov 28 23:01:02 <LaF0rge> writchie: the latency of that process is likely longer than your sleep interval. in that case you want to use CLK SLOW mode of the s3c24xx 
Nov 28 23:01:04 <Writchie> i was think of these wakeup being process between interrupt and before resume
Nov 28 23:01:54 <Writchie> i'm hoping we get resume to under 1 second 2 worst case - OLPC guys IIRC are a couple of hundres ms
Nov 28 23:02:15 <Writchie> slow mode is just too much power. 
Nov 28 23:02:36 <LaF0rge> writchie: suspend/resume will take a long time. you need to actually boot from nand in the resume case
Nov 28 23:02:39 <Writchie> i'm think of not even coming out of self refresh for some of it. 
Nov 28 23:02:55 <CM> Writchie: The tests olpd did showed aroun 10ms on an ipaq, and they hoped to get to around 30-35 on the XO
Nov 28 23:02:56 <LaF0rge> i.e. the bootloader gets loaded from nand flash, and in the bootloader we notice that it's resume and not regular power on, then jump into kernel
Nov 28 23:03:17 <Writchie> yes - but it should only be each drive re-initializing its hardware.
Nov 28 23:03:26 <Writchie> s/drive/driver/
Nov 28 23:03:26 <apt> Writchie meant: yes - but it should only be each driver re-initializing its hardware.
Nov 28 23:03:36 * CM will sleep better now, knowing he might get awakened by a Neo some day ;)
Nov 28 23:03:56 <LaF0rge> and that re-initialization is also quite expensive, especially with all the fancy new stuff like smedia glamo, ...
Nov 28 23:04:01 <Vegar> that sounds like suspend to disk
Nov 28 23:04:28 <Writchie> mobile driver really need to be designed so that its hardware state can be quickly restored. 
Nov 28 23:04:49 <Writchie> without any probe or sleep bs
Nov 28 23:05:16 <LaF0rge> writchie: oh please tell that the hardware vendors that come up with chip designs that ave funny ordering restraints with regard to how and when you initialize register state ;)
Nov 28 23:06:06 <Writchie> i'm not aware of any of these on the order of much more than 1ms - but i'm sure you know better. 
Nov 28 23:06:27 <Writchie> display can be special case. 
Nov 28 23:07:04 <Writchie> personally I don't like the samsung approach - I prefer just a static stop - all the arms IIRC are static designs. 
Nov 28 23:07:54 <Writchie> the biggest problem seems to be that the samsung doesn't meet the spec for a host controller regarding wakeup 
Nov 28 23:08:19 <Writchie> AFAIK
Nov 28 23:08:22 <Writchie> from the docs
Nov 28 23:08:59 <LaF0rge> well, as you know, I'm a mere volunteer these days.
Nov 28 23:09:27 <Writchie> u happy about the relative peace?
Nov 28 23:09:47 <LaF0rge> sorry? 
Nov 28 23:10:03 <Writchie> are you happy being out of the firing line?
Nov 28 23:10:15 <Writchie> and pressure cooker
Nov 28 23:10:20 <stefan_schmidt> LaF0rge: hi, means you only work 10 hours a day these days? ;)
Nov 28 23:10:29 <Writchie> only 10?
Nov 28 23:10:40 <stefan_schmidt> Writchie: Holiday? ;)
Nov 28 23:10:42 <LaF0rge> yes and now.  Personally, I'm happy.  For the project, I have severe doubts about its future :/
Nov 28 23:11:02 <Writchie> things always take longer and cost more. 
Nov 28 23:11:05 <LaF0rge> stefan: well, I work 0 paid hours (maybe 1-2 on average) these days.
Nov 28 23:11:22 <LaF0rge> writchie: it's not about that.  if it was only that, I'd still be there
Nov 28 23:11:36 <stefan_schmidt> LaF0rge: I'm not talking about paid hours. I know you are job-less :)
Nov 28 23:12:08 <Writchie> I can image lots of possibilities
Nov 28 23:12:11 <LaF0rge> right now I'm trying to find out why there is 7.7% packet loss of TCP ACK packets in my SDSL internet uplink ;)
Nov 28 23:12:31 * stefan_schmidt kicks alphaone to get the berlin meeting blogpost ready.
Nov 28 23:12:40 * mickeyl helps kicking alphaone 
Nov 28 23:12:59 * stefan_schmidt just ordered ADSL2
Nov 28 23:13:16 <stefan_schmidt> Still sucking upstream, 1Mbit, but down is 16Mbit :)
Nov 28 23:13:17 <Writchie> LaFOrge: BTW i'm just finishing up a kernel mode mux - should release it soon - I now agree with you about it being in the Kernel
Nov 28 23:13:34 <stefan_schmidt> Good improvement from 768/128
Nov 28 23:14:12 <stefan_schmidt> Writchie: Cool, generic enough for all the different chips outside?
Nov 28 23:14:21 <Writchie> eventually
Nov 28 23:14:34 <stefan_schmidt> Writchie: Of course I'm asking with the Motorola EZX neptune one in mind. :)
Nov 28 23:14:48 <Writchie> first it will do 100% of the standard, old and new, then the motorola funkies
Nov 28 23:15:00 <alphaone> Guys, chill
Nov 28 23:15:11 <stefan_schmidt> Writchie: Good approach. If you start with non-standard it gets a mess
Nov 28 23:15:30 <stefan_schmidt> alphaone: Like you?
Nov 28 23:15:31 <Writchie> once its solid for the standard then people can patch it up
Nov 28 23:15:45 <Writchie> it does both end of the protocol as well
Nov 28 23:16:11 <stefan_schmidt> Writchie: Sounds reasonable to me
Nov 28 23:16:41 <stefan_schmidt> Writchie: Until now I never saw the GSM chip side
Nov 28 23:17:16 <Writchie> it mostly symmetrical but the TE side starts things up. 
Nov 28 23:17:46 <Writchie> and the MS side has extra control for carrier detect and incoming call. 
Nov 28 23:18:31 <stefan_schmidt> Writchie: Ah, it's quite some time I had a look at TS07.10 it seems. :)
Nov 28 23:19:43 <Writchie> i still think that some applications may need to export a mux - especially with new euro initiatives for using AT commands on all portable devices to assistive technology for people with disabilities. 
Nov 28 23:20:34 <peepsalot> hi, so I read that the display on the neo can do 262k color, which I guess means 18bit.  I'm wondering what the best format would be for storing images for dislpay on the neo.  is it very CPU intensive to downsample from 24bit images?
Nov 28 23:20:36 <stefan_schmidt> Writchie: Have you written the mux driver for something special in mind?
Nov 28 23:20:51 <Writchie> neo and its successors
Nov 28 23:21:13 <stefan_schmidt> Writchie: Really? That's indeed a really nice contribution then.
Nov 28 23:21:37 <stefan_schmidt> Writchie: I thought you were working in a similar area.
Nov 28 23:21:51 <balrog-kun> peepsalot: not very expensive, it's two shifts per pixel, but still you have to process every pixel
Nov 28 23:22:09 <balrog-kun> peepsalot: i think you won't notice a difference between 16- and 18-bit at this resolution
Nov 28 23:23:03 <peepsalot> ok, i'm considering trying to develop a rather simple application.  but need to have a lot of images cached and displaying rapidly.  just trying to think how I would go about it
Nov 28 23:23:59 <balrog-kun> i don't remember if the s3c lcd controller can maybe downsample on-the-fly
Nov 28 23:24:44 <peepsalot> i wonder how good neo hardware would be at animating a rotating svg file.
Nov 28 23:25:13 <mickeyl> accurate as hell, but slow as well
Nov 28 23:25:16 <mickeyl> rhyme...
Nov 28 23:26:02 <peepsalot> ok, so that's why I'm thinking i would need to basically precompute the frames and store them
Nov 28 23:27:26 <peepsalot> but would displaying, say for example PNGs be much faster than svg?
Nov 28 23:27:58 <peepsalot> i just want the animation to be as smooth as possible
Nov 28 23:28:44 <stefan_schmidt> peepsalot: Sounds like to are looking for using EFL :)
Nov 28 23:29:20 * mickeyl wakes up
Nov 28 23:29:26 <mickeyl> someone mentioned EFL?
Nov 28 23:29:28 <mickeyl> :D
Nov 28 23:29:33 <abraxa_> lol
Nov 28 23:29:39 <stefan_schmidt> err, no, nobody
Nov 28 23:29:48 <mickeyl> darn
Nov 28 23:29:52 * mickeyl falls asleep again
Nov 28 23:30:20 <peepsalot> does EFL require E17 or whatever it's called?  can I use EFL under GTK?
Nov 28 23:30:28 <balrog-kun> peepsalot: it really depends, svg might be faster for simple enough images
Nov 28 23:30:42 <stefan_schmidt> buh, that was tight
Nov 28 23:31:38 <stefan_schmidt> peepsalot: You can use it in X so no problem. But you need the libraries installed.
Nov 28 23:31:59 <stefan_schmidt> peepsalot: I think it would help if you could tell use what you like to write. If possible.
Nov 28 23:32:18 <Writchie> and at what frame rate
Nov 28 23:32:45 <stefan_schmidt> yeah
Nov 28 23:33:13 <mickeyl> peepsalot: EFL is just a set of libraries working on X or a naked framebuffer or directFB or SDL or what not
Nov 28 23:33:17 <peepsalot> i want to write a "TouchPadLock" where one can use their finger to spin the wheel and look as realistic as possible, simulating a MasterLock for example
Nov 28 23:33:33 <mickeyl> peepsalot: that sounds like a good job for EFL. give it a try
Nov 28 23:33:41 <mickeyl> in particular, edje
Nov 28 23:36:26 <peepsalot> so are the EFL libraries currently supported on openmoko / neo ?
Nov 28 23:38:42 <mickeyl> yes, they build fine
Nov 28 23:38:51 <mickeyl> they're not part of the default install, since nothing uses them
Nov 28 23:38:54 <mickeyl> yet...
Nov 28 23:38:59 <mickeyl> but they're in the feed
Nov 28 23:39:07 <abraxa_> (and on his wish list ;)
Nov 28 23:39:22 <Writchie> are they LGPL?
Nov 28 23:39:24 <mickeyl> indeed
Nov 28 23:39:32 <mickeyl> BSD iirc
Nov 28 23:39:35 <mickeyl> so even more open
Nov 28 23:39:37 <Crofton|home> peepsalot, create a rotary dialer while you are at it :)
Nov 28 23:39:39 <Writchie> cool
Nov 28 23:39:44 <mickeyl> yep
Nov 28 23:39:53 <mickeyl> next-gen UI toolkits, as I like to call them
Nov 28 23:40:00 <mickeyl> ~kill old style UI kits
Nov 28 23:40:01 * apt shoots a excited graviton gun at old style UI kits
Nov 28 23:40:42 * Crofton|home wonders if anyone here knows what he is taking about ....
Nov 28 23:41:23 <Writchie> and add + * and # to it ;)
Nov 28 23:41:30 <stefan_schmidt> Crofton|home: You mean the dialer from old-school landline phones?
Nov 28 23:41:37 <Crofton|home> http://www.rotarydialphones.com/
Nov 28 23:41:38 <Crofton|home> yeah
Nov 28 23:41:51 * stefan_schmidt is to young for stuff like this. :)
Nov 28 23:41:53 <Crofton|home> I desparately want a cell phone with one
Nov 28 23:41:58 <peepsalot> Crofton|home, yeah my family had a rotary phone back in the day
Nov 28 23:42:01 <Crofton|home> so I can show it to my parents etc
Nov 28 23:42:12 <stefan_schmidt> But my dad worked for a big telco, so we have tons of old phones.
Nov 28 23:42:55 <mmontour> Crofton|home: You'd also need one of these: http://www.thinkgeek.com/gadgets/cellphone/8928/
Nov 28 23:43:06 <balrog-kun> i had one at home maybe three or four years ago still, big, heavy, black
Nov 28 23:43:15 <balrog-kun> and *really* loud when it ringed
Nov 28 23:43:33 <Crofton|home> cool, I had seen one of those with a cord, but not the bluetooth version
Nov 28 23:43:41 <Writchie> model 500 was last one in U.S., 308 before that IIRC
Nov 28 23:44:04 <Writchie> except there was a rotary "princess" phone as well
Nov 28 23:44:07 <peepsalot> hey i've got an idea!
Nov 28 23:44:13 <Crofton|home> does the neo have bluetooth?
Nov 28 23:44:20 <peepsalot> what about a USB rotary dialer HID?
Nov 28 23:44:32 <Writchie> there are already BT in a old handset (with no cord)
Nov 28 23:44:46 <Writchie> if you want to freak people out
Nov 28 23:45:26 <mmontour> Crofton|home: yes, the Neo has bluetooth
Nov 28 23:45:39 <mickey|zzZZzz> g'night
Nov 28 23:46:25 <Crofton|home> excellent, a neo, with rotary dialer, retro handset, and 850 MHz and I am set!
Nov 28 23:46:56 <stefan_schmidt> night mickey|zzZZzz 
Nov 28 23:48:37 <peepsalot> hmm, i bet it wouldn't be too hard to convert a rotary dialer to USB.  take circuit from usb keyboard, program a PIC to count the pulses from the rotary, and have it activate the siwtches for the digit keys
Nov 28 23:49:42 <Crofton|home> I will settle for teh dialer on teh screen, and have the clicking sound :)
Nov 28 23:50:13 <Writchie> ten pulses per second to be realistic.
Nov 28 23:50:30 <Writchie> and generate 150 volt spike on like for good measure.
Nov 28 23:50:35 <Writchie> s/like/line/
Nov 28 23:50:35 <apt> Writchie meant: and generate 150 volt spike on line for good measure.
Nov 28 23:57:39 <King_InuYasha> is there a way to boot from Windows Mobile into OpenMoko?
Nov 29 00:02:28 * peepsalot reads about edje
Nov 29 00:04:19 <jeffdameth> peepsalot: did you saw the nice stuff that they were doing on the maemo with efl?
Nov 29 00:04:38 <peepsalot> jeffdameth, i don't think so, which nice stuff?
Nov 29 00:05:45 <peepsalot> hmm, EDC files look very similar to JSON, but not quite.  JSON syntax would be sweet
Nov 29 00:05:56 <jeffdameth> one mom i'll have look for the link 
Nov 29 00:06:03 <jeffdameth> what's JSON?
Nov 29 00:06:46 <peepsalot> jeffdameth, javacsript object notation, a way of representing data http://json.org/
Nov 29 00:08:43 <jeffdameth> oh me dont like javascript so much. you saw that you have embryo scripting in edje? 
Nov 29 00:09:27 <peepsalot> it's language independent.  just happens that it is based on the way that javascript represents literal objects, which is quite elegant IMO
Nov 29 00:10:17 <jeffdame1h> http://codeposts.blogspot.com/ < the two recent videos show some stuff made with evas/edje/etk
Nov 29 00:18:26 <jeffdame1h> peepsalot: i see. yea edje looks a bit complicated on the first look. though there is an gui-editor in the making which makes layout development more easy for designers  
Nov 29 00:36:21 <mmontour> Does anyone else get a do_compile failure for openmoko-panel-gsm_svn.bb?
Nov 29 00:36:27 <mmontour> No rule to make target `moko-pin.lo', needed by `libopenmoko-panel-gsm.la'
Nov 29 00:47:36 <dbmoodb> just a question 
Nov 29 00:47:48 <dbmoodb> when is the phone due out 
Nov 29 00:48:04 <dbmoodb> i know the topic says don't ask
Nov 29 00:50:40 <thomasg> if you know - why you ask? :)
Nov 29 00:51:32 <dbmoodb> well i am reading the community update page and was hoping someone could point me to the mailing list maybe 
Nov 29 00:51:40 <Demonax> Probably a stupid question, but is everything still on track for a mid/late December release of the Neo1973?
Nov 29 00:51:44 <dbmoodb> nevermind found it
Nov 29 00:51:58 <dbmoodb> - according to the community page - shipping would be jan / feb ?
Nov 29 00:52:28 <Demonax> Ah, well late birthday present then, thanks.
Nov 29 00:52:32 <dbmoodb> lol
Nov 29 00:53:11 <dbmoodb> just hope the gphone doesn't come out by then
Nov 29 00:53:27 <dbmoodb> because i have seen this lil phone and really like it
Nov 29 00:53:33 <Demonax> Not interested in that, but yeah, as far as the Noe doing well, hopefully it'll be out before.
Nov 29 00:53:34 <cjb_ie> gphone's out middle of 08 innit?
Nov 29 00:53:55 <dbmoodb> well tis it not just the software stuff ?
Nov 29 00:55:07 <dbmoodb> i was impressed that nuance joined the open handset alliance 
Nov 29 00:55:22 <dbmoodb> --> linux speech recognition ?
Nov 29 00:57:30 <peepsalot> there is no gphone
Nov 29 00:57:30 <dbmoodb> oh btw - will openmoko when released for the mass market have an option to show the kernel booting ?
Nov 29 00:57:36 <peepsalot> only android
Nov 29 00:58:04 <dbmoodb> --> peep i said software 
Nov 29 00:58:40 <dbmoodb> with the intent to have it expressed as when will the first google phone using android software come out 
Nov 29 00:58:48 <dbmoodb> - but not a google phone
Nov 29 00:58:57 <dbmoodb> as in anyphone using android 
Nov 29 00:59:08 <dbmoodb> --> wiki says 2008
Nov 29 01:00:48 <dbmoodb> btw - will it be possible to use the phone's gps to get nmea data to a computer over bluetooth ?
Nov 29 01:00:54 <dbmoodb> like for kismet logging ?
Nov 29 01:03:09 <cjb_ie> well in general, computers expect to see GPSes as just bluetooth serial devices
Nov 29 01:03:17 <cjb_ie> which happen to spit NMEA at them
Nov 29 01:03:59 <cjb_ie> if that bluetooth serial device is really a phone that happens to have a gps closely attached to it... i don't see a problem
Nov 29 01:07:56 <ewon> dbmoodb: it's been done, check the wiki
Nov 29 01:12:49 <peepsalot> when sliding your finger around a touchscreen, is it interpreted as a click and drag?
Nov 29 01:15:14 <Demonax> Normally, it's a select. So if you were dragging a window around normally you'd touch and drag. At least that has been my experience.
Nov 29 01:22:38 <peepsalot> is it a good idea to develop an app purely on my desktop machine, with plans to "port" to openmoko / neo later?  or should I try to have it run under openmoko the whole time.  I have no experience with this sort of thing
Nov 29 01:31:26 <abraxa_> peepsalot: Developing on the desktop is fine
Nov 29 01:31:55 <abraxa_> Just try it on the neo every now and then to check if your results stay consistent
Nov 29 01:41:06 <josch> peepsalot, it depends on the kind of your app
Nov 29 01:41:35 <josch> abraxa_, wer zuerst schlafen geht hat verloren :-P
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Nov 29 02:59:56 2007