**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Nov 30 02:59:57 2007 Nov 30 03:02:49 Verizon announced it is scrapping CMDA path and switching to LTE (GSM family) in a a few years. Nov 30 03:03:23 so US will finally join the ROTW Nov 30 03:03:24 ?? where Nov 30 03:03:29 US Nov 30 03:03:38 no, [citation required] where :p Nov 30 03:03:53 http://www.news.com/8301-13579_3-9826437-37.html?tag=nefd.blgs Nov 30 03:05:11 thats.. uh .. pretty amazing Nov 30 03:05:21 who replaced the board of verizon with robots? Nov 30 03:05:56 vodafone Nov 30 03:06:19 bell-shaped heads must be finalling retiring Nov 30 03:46:07 What's the USB network device module on the PC side called? Nov 30 03:46:27 * SpeedEvil upgraded kernel and I think I've forgotten it. Nov 30 03:48:12 looks like "usbnet" and "cdc_ether" Nov 30 03:48:18 ah yes, thanks Nov 30 03:48:38 nnpiggy: hey Nov 30 04:00:25 ckuethe: no luck still with your phone in edmonton? that cell tower map showing the Rogers 1900 Mhz map is not accurate? :| Nov 30 04:08:23 haven't tried in a while but the last few times it wasn't working near any of the places i frequent Nov 30 04:11:20 thats too bad. i thought that it would work fine in the city but get bad receiption outside the city Nov 30 04:18:07 i'm just saying that it seems like all the places i go, they run 850 Nov 30 04:18:16 that may not be strictly true Nov 30 04:18:20 but that's how it seems Nov 30 04:26:11 IIRC fido had pretty good 1900 coverage in your neck of the woods and Rogers is mostly 850 Nov 30 04:26:52 AT&T in the US and Rogers in Canada just aren't going to have decent coverage without 850 Nov 30 04:27:28 t-mobile and fido should be mostly OK except that you need to roam into 850's where their coverage is poor Nov 30 05:14:04 i guess that means i'll just have to wait for the 850 version of the Neo :) Nov 30 05:18:07 Nice! Nov 30 05:18:08 oops Nov 30 05:31:01 * * OM Bug 1047 has been created by john_lee(AT)openmoko.com Nov 30 05:31:02 * * Require OE snapshots for different monotone version Nov 30 05:31:03 * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1047 Nov 30 05:39:00 * * OM Bug 1048 has been created by john_lee(AT)openmoko.com Nov 30 05:39:01 * * Automatic pulling and building Nov 30 05:39:02 * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1048 Nov 30 05:42:45 03john_lee * r3536 10/developers/john_lee/ (15 files in 5 dirs): Nov 30 05:42:45 The initial version of openmoko toolkit Nov 30 05:42:45 must be used with openmoko toolchain. Nov 30 05:43:02 Nice Nov 30 06:04:44 CM: just rather Nov 30 06:09:04 Hehe, well, at least something is happening... Nov 30 06:56:43 Would anyone like to remind me, where I could get the latest and greatest development images? (I still haven't got a new computer that could manage to compile them... ) Nov 30 07:00:30 Batalyx: try http://buildhost.automated.it/OM2007.2/ Nov 30 07:00:52 Yes, get ScaredyCat's images :) Nov 30 07:01:25 Batalyx: But an official new snapshot will be out "soon" (tm) ;) Nov 30 07:03:06 thanks. I suppose "soon" is not "in half an hour"? :) Nov 30 07:04:03 Nah, but I hope just a few more days :) Nov 30 07:04:26 "soon" in the OpenMoko world can mean several months :) (gllin, I'm looking in your direction) Nov 30 07:08:00 * CM thakes a stern look at gta02 instead ;) Nov 30 07:24:42 mmontour: gllin seems to be movin now Nov 30 07:29:20 xzcvczx: I know, I'm doing some testing with gllin right now (finally!). Nov 30 07:37:24 jollen: Nice blog you have! jserv--'s too. Google does an ok job translating it to english ;) Nov 30 07:39:50 my ericsson just died. it has no sense of timing :-( couldn't it have waited a few months...? Nov 30 07:42:14 just to verify what I *think* the web site is saying: it's something like a minimum of 3 months, probably more like 6, before we can hope to see US-usable Neo hardware? Nov 30 07:42:33 I'm afraid that's the best guess Nov 30 07:42:57 OpenMoko haven't said anything offically about the 850MHz thing as far as I know Nov 30 07:43:52 njs: Latest said is probably this: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Community_Updates#850_MHz_band_not_supported_in_USA.2BCanada_.28e.g._comment_24_on_bug_.23256.29 Nov 30 07:47:35 CM: yeah, that's what I'm going off of Nov 30 07:47:41 sigh, woe is me, etc. Nov 30 07:50:17 Just as a point of interest: How is the project coming along? (hopeful buyer here) Nov 30 07:51:20 hairulfr: Pretty good I think Nov 30 07:51:45 Was a bit of a stand-still during september-october, but now there's a lot of progress Nov 30 07:52:22 hairulfr: Yesterday the gllin binary driver to the GPS in gta01 was finally released Nov 30 07:52:32 Cool :) Nov 30 07:52:44 Also, the wlan driver for gta02 worked for the first time yesterday Nov 30 07:52:44 CM: Glim gllin...???? Nov 30 07:52:56 GL = Global Locate Nov 30 07:53:02 The tech stuff I no nothing about :) Nov 30 07:53:08 The name of the gps "driver" Nov 30 07:53:34 But, well, just waiting for it to become "usable", really really looking forward to it :) This is what I've been wishing for for ages Nov 30 07:53:50 CM: I see stuff improving at a high rate these days ... Can we expect the GTA02 to be ready by December ? Nov 30 07:58:36 good morning Nov 30 08:00:20 CVirus: I can imagine that.. :( Nov 30 08:01:25 CVirus: But that sameo got the wlan driver working yesterday is very good news I think. Just hope GTA02v5 will be the final version Nov 30 08:01:53 CM: is it even out for the devs yet ? Nov 30 08:03:06 Some devs have a v4, but I don't think it's many Nov 30 08:03:33 Internal OM devs that is, no P0 for gta02 yet Nov 30 08:04:28 what? gps-driver? for GTA01? is it christmas already? :) Nov 30 08:05:20 Batalyx: Yes, look at http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2007-November/011916.html Nov 30 08:06:02 just noticed! been busy for a while, and this is just great news! Nov 30 08:06:16 Sure is :) Nov 30 08:17:54 when i scp files to neo target, I get "make: *** Error 1" - even though the file gets copied, why is that? Nov 30 08:19:48 Never gotten that. Not a full rootfs? Nov 30 08:20:01 Hi guys Nov 30 08:20:40 CM, /etc/version is 200709172031; what is meant by "full rootfs"? Nov 30 08:21:08 Can anyone see me ? Nov 30 08:21:35 Dwight2: yes Nov 30 08:21:49 Dwight2, WYSIWYG? yes Nov 30 08:22:07 ok great - I am a newbie so sorry wasnt sure if this irc client was working Nov 30 08:22:31 Dwight2, welcome Nov 30 08:24:48 mbuf: I meant if the nand flash was full :) Nov 30 08:39:12 The people who provide support here - are they all volunteurs or you guys working for FIC / Openmoko Nov 30 08:44:09 Dwight2: most of them (like me) are volunteurs Nov 30 08:45:28 ah ok - well my thanks to you guys as I hope next year to get the Neo and will need help - thereafter I hope I will be able to contribute to the community tho I'm a Junior Oracle Developer - will have to get the C text books out and start reading up - where is everyone located ? Nov 30 08:47:20 Dwight2, australia, teiwan, germany, poland, netherland, US, sweden, UK, france... Nov 30 08:48:07 Dwight2: and many other countries Nov 30 08:48:45 Finland \o/ Nov 30 08:50:19 bavaria ;) <-- josch Nov 30 08:50:35 fgau, ^^ Nov 30 08:50:42 XorA|gone: ping Nov 30 09:02:25 Who is in charge instead of Welte ? Nov 30 09:04:09 CVirus: For that part of the development? No one yet, afaik Nov 30 09:04:42 why not ? Nov 30 09:05:04 Well, I guess he's not that easy to replace ;) Nov 30 09:05:25 Is OpenMoko still on track for a Dec/Jan release of "consumer-ready"? *hasn't been paying attention* Nov 30 09:06:00 Q_Contoxicated: Probably not in December, but no more news than that lately.. Nov 30 09:06:47 Q_Contoxicated: The wlan driver for gta02 is working now though :) Nov 30 09:07:00 Good. Nov 30 09:07:20 I hope to procure one by Feb, my Treo650 doesn't sync quite as well with Ubuntu as I hoped :-/ Nov 30 09:07:34 Haven't tried since I switched from Thunderbird-->Evolution, though. Nov 30 09:07:43 I hope I can have one earlier than that too :) Nov 30 09:08:06 Well, at current pace...I'll be getting a call in 1-3 weeks offering me back to contract again at previous place of employment Nov 30 09:08:21 meaning by Feb I should have $$$ for one...gonna be back at the $450/600 price I presume? Nov 30 09:09:08 I had a thought on that, a few weeks ago. If I buy the $450 package, and later want the "dev-kit" options, is there an option for that yet? To pick up the "extra" pieces? Or am I SOL? Nov 30 09:09:24 when installing test applications on the Neo, where do you recommend we dump the .ipks? Nov 30 09:09:39 I don't know why the debugboard isn't sold separately Nov 30 09:09:50 Maybe it will be when GTA02 is released. Nov 30 09:09:51 At this point you're a dev or you're a user. Nov 30 09:09:58 I hope they later allow for the 'upgrade' Nov 30 09:10:02 even if at an extra cost Nov 30 09:10:03 Q_Contoxicated: It's very unlikely that you'll need a debugboard though Nov 30 09:10:09 True Nov 30 09:10:21 that's really the main piece with the dev-kit, isn't it? Nov 30 09:10:24 It's really only if you mess up your u-boot Nov 30 09:10:29 Hmmmm. Nov 30 09:10:53 Yes, and a cable and torx 6 and extra battery I think, + the box Nov 30 09:10:55 I'm imaging a way to "ghost" (image) the phone. That way, devs don't need an extra debugboard. Nov 30 09:11:07 They "image" their working setup Nov 30 09:11:07 CM, full NAND flash: /tmp is 0% use, so there is enough space Nov 30 09:11:33 then "ghost" in their new test image, able to restore to their backup image of a "normal, working" system once done with dev/testing work. Nov 30 09:11:38 mbuf: I usually put stuff on the sd, /media/card/ Nov 30 09:11:53 Q_Contoxicated: You can do that already, easily Nov 30 09:11:54 CM, i see Nov 30 09:12:12 Q_Contoxicated: But if you flash over uboot, you're out.. ;) Nov 30 09:12:29 * Q_Contoxicated has no idea what that means, and has obviously been drinking Nov 30 09:12:46 I can't program/code to save my life. Nov 30 09:13:50 I'm an IT hardware-monkey/tech/grunt and planner/project-designer etc Nov 30 09:14:06 mostly the former, aspire to the latter (mostly) Nov 30 09:14:10 sometimes I get to swap hats :D Nov 30 09:14:30 is it possible to flash over the uboot - and if you do how do you recover from it ? Nov 30 09:15:43 if I manually use, "scp /tmp/foo root@neo:/tmp" it doesn't cause any error; if i use it in a Makefile target, it exits with "make: *** Error 1" - weird Nov 30 09:15:46 Dwight2: If you flash over u-boot, you have a brick Nov 30 09:15:58 And you need a debugboard with jtag to recover Nov 30 09:16:09 u-boot = grub? Nov 30 09:16:18 or similar? Nov 30 09:16:25 no way to recover from that ? do you connect the debugboard to the phone to recover? Nov 30 09:16:25 * Q_Contoxicated isn't familiar with u-boot Nov 30 09:16:35 but return status is 1, make target expects return status as 0 Nov 30 09:16:40 Q_Contoxicated: u-boot is a bootloader Nov 30 09:17:26 so, like grub or lilo Nov 30 09:17:41 *trying to understand the process, having not looked at it previously* Nov 30 09:18:25 Q_Contoxicated, yeah - it's similar to apps like grup or lilo Nov 30 09:18:31 Q_Contoxicated, as far as i understand it is a form of linux running on the neo, that includes the bootloader to actually locate and start the kernel Nov 30 09:18:38 damn openembedded snapshot - EO-this-is-for-mtn-0.36.mtn.bz2 are fuvkred up md5 sum isn't correct :S Nov 30 09:18:46 Ok Nov 30 09:18:51 no way to recover from that ? do you connect the debugboard to the phone to recover? Nov 30 09:19:01 Same thing, then. Just for that arch/hardware etc. Nov 30 09:19:24 No way to rebuild/reinstall a bootloader without a debugboard? Damn. That should get fixed. Nov 30 09:19:31 That's a serious problem. Nov 30 09:19:31 Dwight2: if you destroy u-boot , you can only reflash your phone only by using debugboard Nov 30 09:19:55 End-user downloads random pre-built image, loads onto phone, bricks phone...gets pissed at OpenMoko. Nov 30 09:20:06 < makes a note to make friends with someone who owns a debug board near me BEFORE I buy the neo Nov 30 09:20:11 Q_Contoxicated, by the looks of the discussion it seems similair to frying bootroms :) Nov 30 09:20:32 Q_Contoxicated: if normal user will read seriously documentation will se that flashing process is delicate Nov 30 09:21:01 NineX, you're trusting a user. First mistake. :D Nov 30 09:21:04 why would an enduser "flash" ? Nov 30 09:21:04 lol Nov 30 09:21:12 ALWAYS provide a recovery solution. Nov 30 09:21:18 even if it requires a full wipe. Nov 30 09:21:24 I think we need to get a list running of those who own debug boards and their locations :) Nov 30 09:21:31 Sending in for repair = fail Nov 30 09:22:18 I don't see a need for post-general-release of me spending an extra $150 for a debug board. Nov 30 09:22:23 I don't plan on getting one. Nov 30 09:22:45 I hope there's a recovery solution, I plan on futzing with it. I want it to work awesome. I remember the Palm Pilot rocking. Nov 30 09:23:00 Now that I'm on Linux, it doesn't work so well. Nov 30 09:23:09 Q_Contoxicated: it's your problem , i was buyed neoadvanced cause 2x batteries 2x memo cartd and most important debugboard Nov 30 09:23:30 hello Nov 30 09:23:33 ? Nov 30 09:24:24 is there a "python+gtk for openmoko" crash course available somewhere ? Nov 30 09:24:50 I suck big time at designing interfaces, especially when the screen is so small Nov 30 09:25:15 hmm but idea with rescue sollution is easy to implement in hardwaree: some small read only part of memory with special program that can provide reflash possibility when ubot is fucked up Nov 30 09:25:51 I like the idea of a crash-course in GUI-design Nov 30 09:25:51 /s/ubot/u-boot/ Nov 30 09:26:25 * CVirus s Nov 30 09:26:37 sorry .. was testing dcop Nov 30 09:26:42 the pygtk howto is nice for the code, but not for the design Nov 30 09:26:46 speaking of small, what reso will the screen be ? Nov 30 09:27:00 I know I will get shot for saying this - but am using a nokia gprs phone via usb to a windows notebook to access internet - I hope that a similar facility will be considered to allow a pc to use the neo as a gprs/3g modem in the future Nov 30 09:27:21 has anyone received the error "Could not initialize SDL - exiting" when running OpenMoko under QEMU? Nov 30 09:27:27 Dwight2: i think that is not a problem Nov 30 09:28:16 ninex you saying it will be catered for / is catered for ( even with windows ) Nov 30 09:28:47 Phone-as-modem? I hope so. Nov 30 09:28:51 It's fast becoming an option. Nov 30 09:31:03 "Could not initialize SDL - exiting", when starting openomoko under QEMU Nov 30 09:31:16 anyone know how to fix this? Nov 30 09:32:19 not a clue lol Nov 30 09:32:32 ok then lol Nov 30 10:03:59 is anyone having trouble when building module-init-tools-cross with mokomakefile? Nov 30 10:24:44 hi Nov 30 10:25:54 anyone here? Nov 30 10:27:44 nobody but us chickens :) Nov 30 10:28:28 lol Nov 30 10:31:44 and the drinkers. heh. Nov 30 10:31:59 how many here have a neo at the moment? Nov 30 10:32:11 * Q_Contoxicated sighs and cries, shaking his head no Nov 30 10:33:36 * zash wonders what the ratio of ppl with neo / ppl who dont is here Nov 30 10:34:41 * Q_Contoxicated would love to, but isn't a programmer. Nov 30 10:34:59 must be a couple of thousand sold? Nov 30 10:35:39 naaa, there's only one and we share it ;) Nov 30 10:36:01 lol Nov 30 10:36:10 Worlds biggest timeshare...? Nov 30 10:36:13 hey scaredycat - your one of the developers are you not ? Nov 30 10:36:21 I think there were only ~2000 Neos produced of the GTA01 version Nov 30 10:36:39 At least 1000 in the first batch were sold out very quickly Nov 30 10:36:57 Might have been 2000 produced or so in the second, I don't know Nov 30 10:37:34 Q_Contoxicated: You don't have to be a programmer to have one :-) Nov 30 10:38:09 I'm a developer, not one of the developers though Nov 30 10:38:10 Yeah, but how else would I use it? :P Nov 30 10:38:31 I'll wait til it can make phone calls - then I'll get one. lol Nov 30 10:38:35 scaredycat - I thought you one of the design/ development team Nov 30 10:38:39 and I have monies. *sighs* Nov 30 10:38:48 naaa... I just have a big mouth ;) Nov 30 10:38:59 CM: numbers on 'P1 Owners' page are up to 7k, woudn't that mean 7k Neos delivered? Nov 30 10:39:12 well if you are I just wanted to say thanks Nov 30 10:39:15 Hi all ^^ Nov 30 10:39:43 Xx13: No, that's tickets for all issues Nov 30 10:39:45 the numbers started at what, some 1900? Nov 30 10:39:57 Yes, 1881 I think Nov 30 10:40:03 * ScaredyCat starts frantically using gllin for no apparent reason :P Nov 30 10:40:05 I was 1882.. :P Nov 30 10:40:13 ScaredyCat: lol Nov 30 10:40:43 you were 1821 CM Nov 30 10:40:49 not 1882 Nov 30 10:41:05 Heh, ok, Missed a few digits %) Nov 30 10:41:08 not that I was monitoring or anything .. Nov 30 10:41:22 1821 does sound better.. Nov 30 10:41:32 big brother is watching you CM Nov 30 10:41:42 * CM is in a boring phone meeting with Volvo UK Nov 30 10:41:46 did Mononokejust call me fat? Nov 30 10:41:54 scaredycat will i get kicked if i ask about future plans for a 3g/hsdpa hardware future ? Nov 30 10:42:02 CM: tell em I want my V8 Nov 30 10:42:16 ScaredyCat: Hehe, I'll place an order for that Nov 30 10:42:19 no, Dwight2, there's very little kicking in here Nov 30 10:42:23 Dwight2, no, but you won't get much useful answers Nov 30 10:42:27 Just fishing Nov 30 10:42:32 ~fish Dwight2 Nov 30 10:42:33 hmmm Nov 30 10:42:33 * apt slaps Dwight2 around with a large trout Nov 30 10:42:36 lol Nov 30 10:42:37 :D Nov 30 10:42:45 thanks apt ;) Nov 30 10:43:01 apt: botsnack Nov 30 10:43:01 aw, gee, ScaredyCat Nov 30 10:43:26 Dwight2: FIC/OM is very quiet about future plans.. Nov 30 10:43:49 And by the way, the neo can already (manually) give you routing to gprs over usb. Though I don't know if Neo's usb networking works with windows Nov 30 10:44:05 CM: because you can't just tell people : and now we'll take over the world Nov 30 10:44:09 that won't work Nov 30 10:44:18 Hehe Nov 30 10:45:20 one point I think is a flaw - I personally think a stylus standard should be adopted and a place to insert a stylus on the Neo should be standard on the hardware Nov 30 10:46:39 Why not doing like the Nintendo DS? A little ring to place on the thumb, which is rounded Nov 30 10:47:03 yes, the stylus doesn't need to be massive, just look at the Nokia 770 stylus, small flat... Nov 30 10:47:43 what about tethered, unlosable styluses :-) Nov 30 10:47:58 look here Nov 30 10:47:58 http://www.jeuxvideo.fr/les-accessoires-ds-lite-bigben-mis-a-nu-article-36052-1.html Nov 30 10:48:02 i'm sure a wired one would open up interesting possibilities too Nov 30 10:48:09 search for this text "- Les deux bagues pouces" Nov 30 10:48:31 or one of those finger pointy things... Nov 30 10:48:45 yes Nov 30 10:48:47 or you could sharpen your fingers... Nov 30 10:48:53 lol Nov 30 10:49:19 well a finger ring is very handy i think, because it can be attached to the PDA wire without looking bad. Nov 30 10:49:44 Or just put a webcam in it, which knows where the user looks ;) Nov 30 10:50:04 Blink eye = click, epilepsy = double click ^^ Nov 30 10:50:56 surely, left blink = left click, right blink = right click, both blink = double click... Nov 30 10:51:19 :D Nov 30 10:51:42 People may i ask you just a little question Nov 30 10:51:55 then you could scroll up and down by moving your tongue Nov 30 10:51:56 ~ask Nov 30 10:51:57 Questions in the channel should be specific, informative, complete, concise, and on-topic. Don't ask if you can ask a question first. Don't ask if a person is there, just ask what you intended to ask them. Better questions more frequently yield better answers. We are all here voluntarily or against our will. Nov 30 10:52:05 ;) Nov 30 10:52:16 dang is APT a real user? Nov 30 10:52:23 ~apt Nov 30 10:52:24 i heard apt is the really annoying bot. Nov 30 10:52:30 lol Nov 30 10:52:36 ~curse ScaredyCat Nov 30 10:52:37 May you be reincarnated as a Windows XP administrator, ScaredyCat ! Nov 30 10:52:40 Really annoying, HOT bot. Nov 30 10:52:40 apt get remove --purge apt =/ Nov 30 10:52:41 :P Nov 30 10:52:41 * apt fetches remove --purge apt =/ Nov 30 10:52:45 lol Nov 30 10:52:45 Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo Nov 30 10:52:50 HAHA Nov 30 10:52:51 Hehe Nov 30 10:53:10 voluntarily or against our will... what other possible reasons are there? Nov 30 10:53:14 semi-voluntarily? Nov 30 10:53:22 apt get moo Nov 30 10:53:22 semi-willy Nov 30 10:53:23 * apt fetches moo Nov 30 10:53:27 so my question is, i'm actually downloading precompiled rootdfs / kern images here: http://buildhost.openmoko.org/OM2007.2/tmp/deploy/glibc/images/neo1973 is there a more "up to date" place? Nov 30 10:53:28 Random luck of fate? Nov 30 10:53:53 Hicks: depends when the date of that image is :) Nov 30 10:54:02 ermm random luck of fate is a paradox, if you're talking about fate, there is no such thing luck or bad luck, and no such thing RANDOM :D Nov 30 10:54:11 there is only one image here Nov 30 10:54:15 21 nov Nov 30 10:54:25 that's just the official repo. Nov 30 10:54:36 Joachim told me to get it here, i'm not sure if there are other binary repos, with snapshots for instance? Nov 30 10:54:38 * ScaredyCat points at his repo Nov 30 10:54:40 okay Nov 30 10:55:01 so if i want to check daily if new binaries cames out, where am i supposed to check? Nov 30 10:55:37 depends if you only want official images... Nov 30 10:55:58 if you only want official ones, just ipkg update && ipkg upgrade Nov 30 10:56:00 no no i dont care, we need to see the progress of the system, and test :) Nov 30 10:56:15 that's what i do already, but maybe there are binary snapshots? Nov 30 10:56:28 http://buildhost.automated.it/OM2007.2/ Nov 30 10:57:01 heeew wonderfull Nov 30 10:57:15 thanks a lot ScaredyCat Nov 30 10:57:18 my images have ipkg configs that include my repo.. and I build pretty regularly Nov 30 10:57:33 "your" images? Nov 30 10:57:39 Do you have a server address? Nov 30 10:57:44 that's my url Nov 30 10:57:55 ooh ok i wasnt aware Nov 30 10:57:59 cool Nov 30 10:57:59 http://buildhost.automated.it/ <--------------- Nov 30 10:58:32 just another question... Talking about QTopia HERE... Is it controversial? Do i risk slapping because talking about something "taboo"? Nov 30 10:58:42 there are other repos too.. http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Repositories Nov 30 10:58:52 sudo /etc/init.d/nfs-kernel-server restart && sudo exportfs -a Nov 30 10:58:55 oops sorry Nov 30 10:58:57 well, you'd be better off in #qtopia Nov 30 10:59:06 yes thanks for this list Nov 30 10:59:09 hmm ok :) Nov 30 10:59:30 but I don;t think anyone is really too bothered about talking about it... Nov 30 10:59:40 (in here) Nov 30 10:59:43 wow your repos rox man Nov 30 10:59:49 okay :) Nov 30 11:00:09 well thanks for your answers ScaredyCat Nov 30 11:00:20 i'll stay on the chan, talk later :) Nov 30 11:00:24 my work here is done... Nov 30 11:00:33 * ScaredyCat flys off into the distance Nov 30 11:00:40 :d Nov 30 11:00:56 * mjr would suggest being nonmoronic about qtopia though, for instance it was rather tiresome to have a qhead insist that using qtopia is just as much a lock-in as using X Nov 30 11:01:00 * Hicks is amazed to see someone flying here Nov 30 11:01:25 * mjr sulks off to lunch Nov 30 11:01:25 mjr sorry i didnt understand the previous Nov 30 11:01:32 Hicks, nm Nov 30 11:01:36 Bon appetit MJR :) Nov 30 11:01:46 just don't be a moron :] Nov 30 11:01:58 yes you neither ^^ Nov 30 11:01:59 Time to change mokomakefile to the new OM server ... Nov 30 11:09:27 * ScaredyCat slaps Placid Nov 30 11:09:33 oO Nov 30 11:22:16 03rwhitby * r167 10mokomakefile/trunk/Makefile: Updated MokoMakefile to use the new OpenMoko monotone server Nov 30 11:22:20 hello. are binary packages available for the base system or does one have to build the whole environment? Nov 30 11:22:45 johncylee: Please test that change. Nov 30 11:22:51 jeffdameth: I recommend http://buildhost.automated.it/OM2007.2/ :) Nov 30 11:23:09 jeffdameth: There is also an official buildhost.openmoko.org Nov 30 11:23:24 CM: thanks :) Nov 30 11:24:22 For those that wish to stay on the bleeding edge rather than using the new stable OM monotone server (which is now the default): "make OM_MONOTONE_SITE=monotone.openembedded.org update" Nov 30 11:24:31 jeffdameth: But I direct any questions about the images to ScaredyCat, since he's the ones building them. ;) Nov 30 11:24:56 rwhitby: Thanks for the tip :) Nov 30 11:25:21 ~emulate rwhitby Nov 30 11:25:21 Another Satisfied Customer! Nov 30 11:25:43 johncylee: will do in my env. Nov 30 11:25:46 ..... Nov 30 11:25:56 rwhitby: will do in my env. Nov 30 11:26:19 ~emulate flexd Nov 30 11:26:35 * flexd starts to run a image of flexd's mind virtually Nov 30 11:27:02 CM: ok, i hadnt looked at the device for now. we have the openmoko available for a student project and one coleague had problems with building the whole package :) he thought he had to... Nov 30 11:27:28 jeffdameth: Just follow the wiki for how to flash a fresh image onto it with dfu-util Nov 30 11:27:42 flexd: don't do that too many times, or you'll run out of stack space in your brain. Nov 30 11:27:42 jeffdameth: And don't be afraid to ask questions in here :) Nov 30 11:28:27 hehe Nov 30 11:28:54 flexd: recursion is bad for your brain! Nov 30 11:29:19 zash: isnt that called OCD these days :-) Nov 30 11:29:43 OCWHAT Nov 30 11:29:43 Is it possible for a total newbie (using Windows and all) to have qemu running with the newest openmoko version? Nov 30 11:29:46 Or ML.. Nov 30 11:30:03 * CM waves Nov 30 11:30:04 Bubbi, newbie = windows? Nov 30 11:30:07 * CM is moving stuff to Stockholm and will be back on monday Nov 30 11:30:22 bye CM ! Nov 30 11:30:32 CM: sissyswamp Nov 30 11:30:40 zash: Hehe Nov 30 11:30:55 josch: I'll be trying out wesnoth when I get back :) Nov 30 11:30:55 josch: heh, nope not nessesarily :-D but i was just making sure all knew i wasn't a linux guy Nov 30 11:31:02 .. yet anyway Nov 30 11:31:06 Obsessive Compulsive Disorder Nov 30 11:31:08 CM: gonna do some logging for OSM? :p Nov 30 11:31:28 now that gta01 gps can actually be used and stuff Nov 30 11:31:40 cjb_ie: Naa, my neo is in pieces, have borrowed a debugboard and will try to fix my broken uboot-env Nov 30 11:31:47 * CM leaves for real Nov 30 11:31:51 Bye! Nov 30 11:33:21 josch: but is it possible for me to run the latest snapshots of openmoko using qemu, and if it is.. well.. how? Nov 30 11:33:41 well - I must admit that I'm a real windows newbie Nov 30 11:33:50 never used anything else than linux Nov 30 11:34:40 josch: lucky you Nov 30 11:34:53 josch for president Nov 30 11:34:53 heh, I have been using windows forever, tried a few linux distros, but they just didn't feel right to me, so i'm still using windows.. Nov 30 11:36:49 hi Nov 30 11:36:53 yo Nov 30 11:38:30 ScaredyCat: how do i try qtopia images i qemu? Nov 30 11:38:58 josch: I have tried using the qemu binary on the wiki, but it contains a very old image of openmoko, so I was wondering how to get one of the newer images running on qemu Nov 30 11:39:59 Bubbi, well the qemu binary you downloaded - you do specify the location of kernel and image somewhere don't you? Nov 30 11:40:57 nope, I just need to run a "run.bat" script.. Nov 30 11:42:31 Josch: damn.. I just got disconnected (using a web-java client), if you have written something useful (or anything else), please write it again.. Nov 30 11:43:05 I have just looked at the run.bat file, it runs this: qemu-system-arm.exe -M neo -m 130 -mtdblock openmoko-flash.image -kernel uImage.bin -usb -show-cursor Nov 30 11:43:47 Bubbi: try replacing the .image and .bin-files Nov 30 11:43:51 with newer Nov 30 11:43:55 any news on the toolchain release mickey has promised for this week? Nov 30 11:44:25 03thomas * r3537 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/artwork/themes/openmoko-standard-2/gtk-2.0/mokosearchbar: * Increase MokoSearchbar entry padding to fix bug 835 Nov 30 11:46:39 josch: what should i replace "openmoko-flash.image" with? I have retrieved the uImage file from http://buildhost.automated.it/OM2007.2/ Nov 30 11:46:52 esben_: not got the official word, but I think its in its last stages of testing Nov 30 11:48:22 so it will soon hit my OE.mtn ? Nov 30 11:48:22 whats the toolchain gonna be all about anyway? coz i'm not sure i understand the need, in light of all the stuff that is already there. Nov 30 11:48:29 is it just a cleanup of the tools, or something? Nov 30 11:49:05 Bubbi, .image is the rootfs and .bin the kernel Nov 30 11:49:19 torpor: the idea is to provide application developers with prebuilt toolchains, which can be used for developing OM applications without having to bother with OE. Nov 30 11:49:25 esben_: you can build toolchain now out of OE Nov 30 11:50:05 bah.. would be better if someone just made a VM image available with everything ready to go. forget all this packaging business; just stuff it all into a VM and let people work with it that way. Nov 30 11:50:11 XorA: yes, I know. But isn't Mickey doing some additional work on it, like including all relevant libraries needed for real OpenMoko application development? Nov 30 11:50:39 esben_: it should be working now, but I cant personally build it to check Nov 30 11:51:14 Yes, it can build, but it misses a lot of libraries needed for developing UI applications. Nov 30 11:51:26 like libjana, and practically anything else than libc. Nov 30 11:51:53 josch: I'm sorry to be asking you, but which rootfs file should I then choose? there are a lot of different rootfs files.. i know i don't need files named with qtopia Nov 30 11:52:26 Bubbi, check out this url: http://buildhost.openmoko.org/OM2007.2/tmp/deploy/glibc/images/neo1973/?C=M;O=D Nov 30 11:52:40 Bubbi, now problem asking - this is what this channel is for ^^ Nov 30 11:52:57 hi mickey Nov 30 11:53:09 speeking of the sun :-) Nov 30 11:53:52 how is the toolchain release plan proceeding? and is it just a build of the current meta-toolchain-openmoko, or are you extending it with additional tools and libraries? Nov 30 11:54:48 josch: thank you very much, it's not always easy beeing a first-timer and all.. :-D So I appreciate all the help Nov 30 11:56:27 josch: the image file has the suffix ".jffs2" and not .image. does it need to be unpacked, or can I use it as-is? Nov 30 11:56:58 Bubbi, no - use it as-is Nov 30 12:02:17 josch: hmm.. it won't work.. it reports "bad register" Nov 30 12:03:12 Bubbi, hrm... Nov 30 12:03:31 Bubbi, sry I'm neither skilled using windows nor qemu because I use a real neo ^^ Nov 30 12:04:40 josch: it's okay :-) I want a neo myself, but as I have no real developer skills, it would be foolish to buy a GTA01 model.. Nov 30 12:05:00 Bubbi, yeah right Nov 30 12:05:27 josch: I'll try to see if I can get this working somehow :-) thank you for your help on this Nov 30 12:06:12 Bubbi, you are welcome! :-) Nov 30 12:06:27 Bubbi: are you using the mokomakefile? coz if not, that is the easiest way to get rolling with moko app development/hacking, and it will do the qemu setup for you quite easily and well if you let it .. Nov 30 12:07:45 torpor, he is on windows Nov 30 12:07:55 torpor: i'm using a windows binary :) Nov 30 12:18:03 so get vmware and set up a quick and dirty linux engine, run things that way. (i do that, btw, but i'm on osx) Nov 30 12:18:17 there is no need to struggle with windows any longer. Nov 30 12:18:49 warg my braaaaain Nov 30 12:20:40 * rwhitby does all his linux development inside vmware on a windows laptop. Nov 30 12:20:57 do i need glibc 2.5 in order to build with mokomakefile? i have glibc 2.6 and it doesn't work Nov 30 12:21:24 cosmin: which error message? Nov 30 12:21:33 esben_: for now, meta-toolchain-openmoko is it. we will add additional tools and libraries once people request it Nov 30 12:22:34 mickeyl: ok. Nov 30 12:22:35 kimnotyze: right after i run `make openmoko-devel-image', a NOTE says: preferred version 2.5 of glibc not available (for item virtual/arm-angstrom-linux-gnueabi-libc-for-gcc) Nov 30 12:22:58 cosmin: that's the one single harmless warning message you should ignore. Nov 30 12:23:00 * * OM Bug 1049 has been created by thomas(AT)openedhand.com Nov 30 12:23:01 * * Add e-mail address button labled as "Add Phone Number" Nov 30 12:23:02 * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1049 Nov 30 12:23:02 I am about the submit the patches needed for getting the generic meta-toolchain.bb to build on cygwin. Nov 30 12:23:34 esben_: I'm interested in cygwin building of OE. Nov 30 12:23:54 and building module-init-tools-cross fails with `/usr/bin/ld: cannot find -lc' Nov 30 12:24:06 cosmin: that's a real error. Nov 30 12:24:11 rwhitby: then you can have OpenMokoNMakfile :-D Nov 30 12:24:21 rwhitby: I have only fixed it for toolchain building, and based on the experienced gained while doing that, I don't think it feasible to do actual image builds on cygwin. Nov 30 12:24:41 XorA: no, I want to do an OpenEmbedded Eclipse plugin. Nov 30 12:24:57 cosmin: try do a "bitbake gcc-cross" first, I believe there is a dependency issue there. Nov 30 12:25:10 esben_: but cross toolchain and package builds are ok? Nov 30 12:25:25 rwhitby: cool! make that an OpenMoko Eclipse plugin afterwards :-) Nov 30 12:25:32 esben_: right after setup, before building anything? Nov 30 12:26:02 rwhitby: cross toolchain are ok and package building as such is ok, but those packages not required by meta-toolchain are in unknown state. Nov 30 12:26:41 I think an OpenMoko Eclipse plugin based on meta-toolchain-openmoko for Linux and cygwin would be cool. Nov 30 12:27:03 An actual OpenEmbedded Eclipse plugin will most likely have to be Linux only. Nov 30 12:27:08 anyone got a known-good SRCREV for openmoko-sample2 ? Nov 30 12:27:51 esben_: where does it fall over? Nov 30 12:28:23 hmm Nov 30 12:28:33 MS Exchange mail fetching on OpenMoko Nov 30 12:28:34 would be awsome Nov 30 12:29:30 rwhitby: many places. Nov 30 12:30:02 fakeroot does not exist on cygwin for one. Nov 30 12:30:25 ok, that would stop images but not packages. Nov 30 12:30:25 I don't think it is possible to generate device nodes as well, which makes it rather hard to generate rootfs images. Nov 30 12:30:36 right - I'm only thinking packages. Nov 30 12:30:49 and then there are just a lot of packages that does not build on cygwin. Nov 30 12:31:12 they should all be fixable, but it will require some amount of effort, and would need to be maintained. Nov 30 12:31:46 esben_: sorry for this silly question, but how do i run bitbake? i tried cd moko && bitbake/bin/bitbake, but it can't find its configuration file Nov 30 12:31:56 heavy usage of ASSUME_PROVIDED can minimize it a lot though, as cygwin itself has a lot of it included, and in very recent versions generally. Nov 30 12:34:18 rwhitby: 3537 Nov 30 12:36:30 cosmin: if you are running bitbake directly, there is usually a shell script which you need to source first. Nov 30 12:36:42 (probably called something like setup-env) Nov 30 12:38:33 thanks, rwhitby Nov 30 12:45:50 /clear Nov 30 12:47:39 * mickeyl processing email backlog... now answering mails from June... *cough* Nov 30 12:47:56 mickeyl: lol nice Nov 30 12:49:43 it's insane Nov 30 12:49:50 :) Nov 30 12:49:54 but better than late than never Nov 30 12:49:59 s/than// Nov 30 12:49:59 mickeyl meant: but better late than never Nov 30 12:50:00 thr joys of popularity :) Nov 30 12:50:06 heh, ya Nov 30 12:53:13 heh If I wanted to rack mickeyl like "gimme 50k$ or I'll kill you. You have 1 month." I would feel quite bad getting reply half year later "Oh no please, I'll pay whatever you want just don't kill me! oh.. wait .. too late :P" Nov 30 12:53:37 Mononoke, ^^ Nov 30 12:54:07 now finally mickeyl gets to answer my hundreds of love letters I wrote him without ever getting an answer :-P Nov 30 12:54:51 Mononoke: If you're going to blackmail mickey for money - of all people - then you're in the wrong channel. He has a GTA02! Nov 30 12:55:08 yeah - blackmail him for a gta03 ! Nov 30 12:55:16 lmao Nov 30 12:55:33 With that mail backlog it would actually be on time ;D Nov 30 12:55:55 * XorA waves a GTA02 in front of screen then hides Nov 30 12:56:01 * * OM Bug 1050 has been created by thomas(AT)openedhand.com Nov 30 12:56:02 * * Address field does not have a type hint Nov 30 12:56:03 * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1050 Nov 30 12:56:13 I'm just saying that it's like sending mail to god "Dear god, are you in there?" [8k yeas later] God : screw it, too late again! Nov 30 12:56:50 Mononoke, hahahaha Nov 30 12:57:01 * * OM Bug 1051 has been created by thomas(AT)openedhand.com Nov 30 12:57:01 * * Photo chooser is missing Nov 30 12:57:03 * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1051 Nov 30 12:57:04 Mononoke: if you can wait 8k years for a reply, I dont think you need a god :-) Nov 30 12:57:43 hehe Nov 30 12:57:49 june nearly done Nov 30 12:57:50 Speed of light... time... relativity... it could work! Nov 30 12:58:00 * * OM Bug 1052 has been created by thomas(AT)openedhand.com Nov 30 12:58:01 * * Address field padding is incorrect Nov 30 12:58:02 * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1052 Nov 30 12:58:39 time for food Nov 30 13:01:01 Mononoke, bug reports: http://xkcd.com/258/ Nov 30 13:01:29 or: http://xkcd.com/224/ Nov 30 13:01:58 yeah I love the second one Nov 30 13:15:39 Writchie|zzzZZZz: when you have a chance, please indicate that you're working on a MUX patch that's due to release soon: http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=90 Nov 30 13:26:19 mickeyl: will the freesmartphones.org wiki be filled by you guys someday or is it intended that it gets filled magically by random people? Nov 30 13:27:14 argh. please don't increase the pressure on me. it's on my agenda very high, but there's also some pressuring things i need to do before that Nov 30 13:27:24 i hope i can do the first run of edits on weekend Nov 30 13:27:30 ok ;) Nov 30 13:27:42 please note that for now it's me wearing the "community hat" working on that Nov 30 13:27:48 not me wearing the "OpenMoko hat" Nov 30 13:27:59 i.e. i can't do it as part of my day job Nov 30 13:28:04 yet... Nov 30 13:28:21 it is just that i really want to help, but i am not sure how :) Nov 30 13:28:41 hey this feature is funny on new wiki installs: http://www.freesmartphone.org/wiki/index.php/Special:Random <= every click a surprise ^^ Nov 30 13:29:35 borg_: right. and we _need_ your help! i promise i will fill up a lot on sunday Nov 30 13:29:54 borg_, I agree it would be usefull to have a todo list so that people like you and me can help writing Nov 30 13:30:17 i can feel this can be a huge project getting quickly to results Nov 30 13:30:28 but of course me and the guys need to do the initial stuff Nov 30 13:30:29 mickeyl, just write down what has to be done - that nothing is done might be due to nobody knowing what has to be done Nov 30 13:30:38 josch: ok, cool. will do that on sunday. thanks Nov 30 14:07:00 * * OM Bug 1053 has been created by emreturkay(AT)gmail.com Nov 30 14:07:01 * * Application menu update Nov 30 14:07:02 * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1053 Nov 30 14:15:20 Does anyone know if the stream of gibberish that gllin outputs via /tmp/nmeaP is described in detail somewhere? Nov 30 14:16:55 it's nmea Nov 30 14:17:27 seems to be described eg. here http://gpsinformation.org/dale/nmea.htm Nov 30 14:18:17 Great! Thanks for the pointer. Nov 30 14:19:02 There's also some info on Wikipedia, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NMEA Nov 30 14:19:21 Thanks for that too. Nov 30 14:19:38 nmea is not gibberish, it's ascii frames Nov 30 14:19:49 It's great to finally have the GPS working. I had given up hope. Nov 30 14:20:51 Yes, I knew it was ASCII, it's just not particularly easy to read. Nov 30 14:23:10 the official specs are spendy to get, but there's plenty of reverse-engineered equivalents Nov 30 14:36:12 hey, do 8GB microSDHC cards work with Neo GTAv01? Nov 30 14:36:54 Hadaka: 4GB do work Nov 30 14:37:21 imo someone here spoke of a working 6GB card, can't see why 8GB shoudn't work Nov 30 14:37:22 borg_: okay, well, guess I'll just hope 8GB can be made to work if it doesn't already Nov 30 14:37:43 the hardware is ok for up to 32GB Nov 30 14:37:45 i think Nov 30 14:38:11 ok cool Nov 30 14:38:24 Hadaka: it would be great if someone can verify if >4GB does or doesn't work ;) Nov 30 14:38:31 but there is of course some risk ;) Nov 30 14:38:51 anyone know of class 6 microSDHC or do I have to settle for class 4? Nov 30 14:39:00 (8 GB that is) Nov 30 14:39:35 borg_: well, actually no risk for me, since I will mainly buy the card for N810, which is supposed to work - and I can then easily test it in GTA01 to confirm Nov 30 14:39:50 hey there ... is minime here? Nov 30 14:40:37 Hadaka: thats great Nov 30 14:41:00 but, I won't get the stuff until just before christmas Nov 30 14:41:16 ok ;) Nov 30 14:43:54 minime: if you ever read this in you backlog, please check my query. thanks! Nov 30 14:55:06 * nox-Hand hopes this coming month will be the month of Neo1973 Nov 30 15:52:00 * * OM Bug 1054 has been created by hrw(AT)openedhand.com Nov 30 15:52:01 * * Description field does not scroll view during entering data Nov 30 15:52:02 * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1054 Nov 30 15:53:32 nox-Hand: in which way? Nov 30 15:58:00 * * OM Bug 1055 has been created by hrw(AT)openedhand.com Nov 30 15:58:01 * * "Delete event" icon is always enabled Nov 30 15:58:02 * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1055 Nov 30 16:05:41 03mickey * r3538 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-calculator2/ (ChangeLog src/calc-main.c): openmoko-calculator2: use proper glyphs for /, *, etc. -- patch by Ross Burton Nov 30 16:08:34 Hi, there Nov 30 16:10:37 03chris * r3539 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-today2/: Update libtaku Nov 30 16:11:17 03chris * r3540 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-today2/ (ChangeLog src/today-launcher.c): Nov 30 16:11:17 * src/today-launcher.c: (item_removed_cb): Nov 30 16:11:17 Grey out messages launcher-button if the .desktop gets removed Nov 30 16:25:32 03chris * r3541 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-today2/ (ChangeLog src/today-main.c): Nov 30 16:25:32 * src/today-main.c: (workarea_changed), (main): Nov 30 16:25:32 Migrate to x_monitor_workarea from x_get_workarea Nov 30 16:28:00 * * OM Bug 1056 has been created by hrw(AT)openedhand.com Nov 30 16:28:01 * * Adding new phone number (or email) does not allow to set type first Nov 30 16:28:02 * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1056 Nov 30 16:29:49 anyone else having problem seeing $GPGSA,A,3 in their /tmp/nmeaNP ? I seem to never get a fix... Nov 30 16:33:06 have you tried going outside, demaledetti Nov 30 16:33:08 demaledetti: Do you see $GPGSA,A,3 or is the problem that you're *not* seeing it? Nov 30 16:33:21 Vegar: yes Nov 30 16:33:27 abraxa__: I don't see it Nov 30 16:33:30 Ah ok Nov 30 16:36:10 Vegar: maybe standing in front of the pub right downstairs was not outside enough, will try again later in some more open place, thanks for the suggestion Nov 30 16:36:25 yeah Nov 30 16:41:57 03mickey * r3542 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-terminal2/ (ChangeLog src/moko-terminal.c): openmoko-terminal2: '~' doesn't work, try $HOME instead Nov 30 16:52:44 Hello, everyone Nov 30 16:53:39 I see gllin is available for download... but I can't get the readme file... Nov 30 16:54:00 pavelm: Did you accept the license agreement? Nov 30 16:54:01 ....ipk can be downloaded, but not files in doc/ directory :-(. Nov 30 16:54:07 you have to accept the ula Nov 30 16:54:09 abraxa: yes. Nov 30 16:54:09 ula Nov 30 16:54:12 eual Nov 30 16:54:14 eula Nov 30 16:54:16 lmao Nov 30 16:54:16 feck Nov 30 16:54:17 :-). Nov 30 16:54:28 I did accept eula. I still can't get at the doc/ files. Nov 30 16:54:33 hrrm Nov 30 16:54:42 the readme doesn;t say much Nov 30 16:54:57 Aha, ok. Nov 30 16:55:13 well, it worked here Nov 30 16:55:24 I just accepted it -- and went to the docs dir... Nov 30 16:55:30 -s Nov 30 16:55:31 doc Nov 30 16:55:47 I get new eula when I click on README.txt, and accepting brings me back to .. Nov 30 16:56:08 http://pastebin.ca/802752 Nov 30 16:56:21 lowercase readme.txt Nov 30 16:56:33 not Nov 30 16:56:34 Thanks! Nov 30 16:56:39 me slaps self Nov 30 16:56:59 computer, exit Nov 30 16:57:00 yikes. Nov 30 16:57:03 [---] Nov 30 16:57:29 * abraxa_ hands ScaredyCat a cup of espresso Nov 30 17:00:02 gneeeeh!.. Nov 30 17:00:09 * ScaredyCat whizzzes aobut Nov 30 17:00:26 have you guys seen the demo of the deeda pi phone ? Nov 30 17:00:54 deeda pi? No... Nov 30 17:01:03 can't say I have Nov 30 17:01:14 What do you use for gps software? i got pygps to run.... Nov 30 17:02:01 pavelm which browser are you using? it works with firefox here for me. just sometimes the ff does sick stuff and stops sending referrers Nov 30 17:02:24 in a case of does-not-work, just restartv your browser ;) Nov 30 17:02:28 roh: galeon. ... mozilla based. It does not work at all from links. Nov 30 17:03:30 pavelm does it use proper referrers? or do you have a proxy which drops these? Nov 30 17:04:25 No idea... lynx does not even display "accept" button, fun ;-) Nov 30 17:06:30 ...hmm, it works okay from mozilla. Good Nov 30 17:17:54 03chris * r3543 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-today2/ (ChangeLog src/today-task-manager.c src/today.h): (log message trimmed) Nov 30 17:17:54 * src/today-task-manager.c: (today_task_manager_populate_tasks), Nov 30 17:17:54 (set_focus_cb), (page_shown), (page_hidden), Nov 30 17:17:54 (today_task_manager_notify_visible_cb), Nov 30 17:17:54 (today_task_manager_visibility_notify_event_cb), Nov 30 17:17:56 (today_task_manager_unmap_cb), (today_task_manager_page_create): Nov 30 17:18:00 * src/today.h: Nov 30 17:19:17 dwight: Will you paste the url for demo? Nov 30 17:19:56 http://www.deeda.com/consumerdevices-pi-v-entainment.php Nov 30 17:20:01 * * OM Bug 1057 has been created by cwixon(AT)usa.net Nov 30 17:20:02 * * openmoko-browser2 could really use a local file selection browser Nov 30 17:20:03 * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1057 Nov 30 17:20:25 it claims to be linux based - but no gps i notice :( Nov 30 17:21:01 * * OM Bug 1058 has been created by cwixon(AT)usa.net Nov 30 17:21:02 * * Web Browser renders plaintext as html -- looks ugly Nov 30 17:21:03 * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1058 Nov 30 17:24:38 Dwight2: I can't use private messages, sorry. Nov 30 17:28:29 pavelm: you should register you nick before someone else does Nov 30 17:28:42 Dwight: That devices look nice... Nov 30 17:28:53 coredump: I'd like pavel and that one is registered already... Nov 30 17:29:11 wonder if would be possible to run openmoko on it Nov 30 17:29:17 It took me 3 years to obtain "coredump" ;) Nov 30 17:29:33 dwight: Probably yes... if they already run linux. Nov 30 17:29:45 Can the deeda be bought? Nov 30 17:30:23 released next year but no gps i note :( Nov 30 17:30:41 * CoreDump has his eyes set on gta03 Nov 30 17:31:25 deeda looks pretty slick, will proly cost a bunch Nov 30 17:32:04 * pavelm wonders if deeda has better touchscreen than gta.... Nov 30 17:34:10 looks a tiny bit like vaporware Nov 30 17:35:24 ...capacitive touch seems ok, yes. But I'll believe it when I see it, looks lke vapor, true. Nov 30 17:35:34 Is there youtube video? I don't have flash installed... Nov 30 17:36:00 hi Nov 30 17:38:30 hi, pbeck. Nov 30 17:38:36 hi pavelm Nov 30 17:55:13 Perhaps this is a stupidly obvious question, but how do I close applications that appear in the drop-down window list? Nov 30 17:55:42 switch to app, then click power. Nov 30 17:57:39 Anyone with a recent (less than 1 week old) rootfs around? Nov 30 17:58:32 pavelm, That may be why I'm at a loss, do you know which keyboard button corresponds to the Neo's power button? Nov 30 17:58:47 Space. Nov 30 17:58:53 Thanks for humouring me. Nov 30 18:02:14 makefile image finally finished, but I cant find out how to mess with the source Nov 30 18:02:21 not with the source of what I have in mind anyway Nov 30 18:02:38 RoboPhred: What do you have in mind? Nov 30 18:03:14 the bridges game, there is a bug that lets you connect a node to itself. I am guessing now that it probably isnt consitered part of moko, is it? Nov 30 18:03:15 mwester: ping Nov 30 18:03:40 RoboPhred: Right, it actually isn't but I'm sure the guys at o-hand are happy to see patches Nov 30 18:04:28 alright. Out of curiosity, where would I find the code to deal with the menu ui object? Nov 30 18:04:30 The package is called "oh-puzzles", btw Nov 30 18:04:36 yep, I tracked that down Nov 30 18:05:00 Do you use rm_work in your local.conf? Nov 30 18:05:08 yep Nov 30 18:05:22 You can comment it out and then do a Nov 30 18:05:53 source setup-env; cd build; bitbake -f -c unpack oh-puzzles Nov 30 18:06:07 actually, that worked for me without removing the rm_work Nov 30 18:06:25 although it didnt give me any usefull stuff, unless I am using it wrong Nov 30 18:06:31 followed the info in the wiki for that Nov 30 18:06:39 it has images and the binaries, but not the source Nov 30 18:06:43 Yes, but you don't want bitbake to wipe your changes away Nov 30 18:07:15 Well okay, let me clarify Nov 30 18:07:38 If you use rm_work, bitbake deletes all files that were used to build the package after it finished compiling and packaging it Nov 30 18:07:55 ah, ok Nov 30 18:07:57 That's exactly what it did: it compiled and packaged it, then deleted everything Nov 30 18:08:14 I never compiled it after unpacking it though, after unpacking it I checked it, and no source was there Nov 30 18:08:15 So without rm_work it will be available to you to work with even after packaging Nov 30 18:08:23 Where did you check? Nov 30 18:08:35 build/tmp/work/.... Nov 30 18:08:40 whatever the wiki said Nov 30 18:08:48 armv4-a~ Nov 30 18:08:52 Ah, it should be there Nov 30 18:09:03 Mind trying the command I gave you? Nov 30 18:09:12 ok Nov 30 18:09:33 Okay, I should do some work. See you! Nov 30 18:09:44 Bye bye pavelm Nov 30 18:10:24 yep, that did it Nov 30 18:10:30 I see more folders in it now, src is there Nov 30 18:10:36 Good :) Nov 30 18:10:39 should probably update the wiki with that cmd Nov 30 18:10:45 will look for the page Nov 30 18:11:28 You might also want to run a "bitbake -f -c configure" and later on a "... -c compile" Nov 30 18:11:28 found it, the cmd the wiki has lacks the -f switch Nov 30 18:11:41 Ah okay Nov 30 18:13:49 meh, I will put off the bridges thing for now, will try somthing more relevant. Where is the code for the dropdown menus located? Nov 30 18:14:04 Which dropdown menus do you have in mind? Nov 30 18:14:20 I noticed it tries to place the currently selected item at the top, so it shows the scroll arrows when they really shouldnt be there Nov 30 18:14:25 the menu for the apps page Nov 30 18:14:40 if you select "all", then open the menu again, the arrows appear and its scrolled all the way down Nov 30 18:14:54 scroll up, then thhe screen flickers and the arrows dissapear when it realises it doesnt need them Nov 30 18:15:15 Ah, that Nov 30 18:15:17 not sure how clear I am making this Nov 30 18:15:22 Yeah, that one is annoying Nov 30 18:15:30 * abraxa_ thinks Nov 30 18:17:02 http://svnweb.openmoko.org/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-today2/src/today-launcher.c?rev=3540&view=markup has the corresponding code in today_launcher_page_create() Nov 30 18:17:25 So it's the MokoSearchBar widget that's responsible Nov 30 18:18:32 ...whose code you find in libmokoui2: http://svnweb.openmoko.org/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/libraries/libmokoui2/libmokoui/moko-search-bar.c?rev=3040&view=markup Nov 30 18:19:03 Is that enough to get you started? :) Nov 30 18:19:24 probably, not like I know what I am doing but thats never stopped me before Nov 30 18:19:31 :) Nov 30 18:19:32 lol okay Nov 30 18:19:37 If you need a hand, just ask Nov 30 18:19:52 alright Nov 30 18:20:18 signing off for a bit Nov 30 18:20:54 Alrighty :) Nov 30 18:21:29 Is there anyone around who has non-working sound? Nov 30 18:27:00 * * OM Bug 1059 has been created by dodji(AT)openedhand.com Nov 30 18:27:01 * * remove DRI and VESA dead code Nov 30 18:27:02 * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1059 Nov 30 18:30:00 * * OM Bug 1060 has been created by dodji(AT)openedhand.com Nov 30 18:30:01 * * e/disable logging at configure time Nov 30 18:30:02 * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1060 Nov 30 18:34:13 bah, should have known better than to try to use suspend on an ubuntu laptop Nov 30 18:34:30 works for me :) Nov 30 18:34:59 I have always had rotten luck with acpi Nov 30 18:35:07 either never suspends or never wakes up again Nov 30 18:41:17 this is.. odd Nov 30 18:41:22 bitbake: unknown command Nov 30 18:41:29 worked not 20 minutes ago Nov 30 18:44:48 You forgot the "source setup-env" then :) Nov 30 18:45:06 I did apt-get install and it installed... Nov 30 18:45:17 I think its just hard drive corruption, it playes hell with vista I know Nov 30 18:45:37 or that failed hibernation screwed it up Nov 30 18:45:48 Vista... Nov 30 18:46:00 more stable than ubuntu for me Nov 30 18:46:15 I use ubuntu primaraly anyway though Nov 30 18:46:16 * HistoryOnTheRoad shudders at Vista Nov 30 18:48:51 hmm, wouldnt that drop down menu be gtkcombo? Nov 30 18:49:02 searchbar says its just a fusion of combo and entry Nov 30 18:49:29 RoboPhred: Yep, exactly Nov 30 18:52:03 Verizon's going GSM :D http://www.linuxinsider.com/story/wireless-networking/60537.html Nov 30 18:52:11 hmm, I dont know where to look to find where the combo code is Nov 30 18:53:15 and ubuntu throws up some Strange and Unearthly error when I try to use its file search... Nov 30 18:56:04 need a pointer, abraxa, how would I find certain elements through the source Nov 30 18:56:15 Wow... Verizon is a bastion of technical isolation, that's very interesting... I see that their plan is to migrate to LTE which is "based-on" GSM, but are they compatible? Nov 30 18:56:37 kdean06: Knowing Verizon it's not Nov 30 18:57:03 is verizon part owned by vodafone? Nov 30 18:57:10 RoboPhred: Elements? Nov 30 18:57:18 grep Nov 30 18:57:25 cant track down the gtkcombo code Nov 30 18:57:48 I know of grep, wont help any here Nov 30 18:58:00 * * OM Bug 1061 has been created by dodji(AT)openedhand.com Nov 30 18:58:01 * * e the current code base to olv last developments Nov 30 18:58:02 * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1061 Nov 30 18:58:02 RoboPhred: The GtkComboBox code will be in the GTK source code Nov 30 18:58:21 assumed as much, closest I found was gtk-engine Nov 30 18:59:41 RoboPhred: http://cvs.gnome.org/viewcvs/gtk%2B/gtk/gtkcombobox.c?rev=1.193&view=markup Nov 30 19:00:05 kdea06: i found that link coming from one about how Verizon is opening their network so they can get in on business from people who want to use phones other than theirs and are willing to switch away from VZW to do it Nov 30 19:00:16 lol wesnoth multiplayer - my neo as the server! :-D Nov 30 19:00:25 dwight2: yes, vodafone owns 40-something % it says Nov 30 19:05:13 hm, how would I set it up so that I can make changes to the gtk code and have it apply to the qemu? Nov 30 19:05:23 since it seems like I need to download another repository Nov 30 19:06:04 RoboPhred: qemu? Uh... I thought you had a device Nov 30 19:06:46 Well, you could SSH into qemu and do stuff that way Nov 30 19:07:05 Building GTK using OE and then shoving the library into qemu with scp Nov 30 19:07:17 I know how to do that, how would I get a change in the gtk code to apply to the makefile-created qemu? Nov 30 19:07:21 You certainly don't want to build and flash a new rootfs every time Nov 30 19:07:40 qemu has nothing to do with that Nov 30 19:07:53 It just runs the GTK library it finds on the rootfs Nov 30 19:08:13 I ment how to get the changes into the emulated phone, not qemu as the program Nov 30 19:08:16 wrong word, sorry Nov 30 19:08:22 oh okay Nov 30 19:08:31 Well like I said: ssh/scp Nov 30 19:08:41 That would be the fastest way Nov 30 19:14:56 Hi, I've a error during "make qemu" with the current MokoMakefile (http://pastebin.com/m632b5327) Nov 30 19:16:48 MBitter: humm, someone reported the same error already, it seems only OpenMoko version of qemu exhibits this even though the error is in a file comepletely unaffected by OM Nov 30 19:17:01 that other person was using MokoMakefile as well Nov 30 19:18:18 sorry, messages was in german. Here is the same with LANG=C http://pastebin.com/m54bf5c19 Nov 30 19:18:36 strange thing was that the file audio.d existed, it just couldn't be found by Makefile when running from MokoMakefile Nov 30 19:19:39 In my case there is no audio.d. At least in the same directory as audo.c Nov 30 19:20:47 you can create an empty audio.d and it should be enough theoretically but for that other person the files still ciould not be found Nov 30 19:20:57 "touch audio/audio.d" Nov 30 19:21:36 urg, I need to find a good IDE for ubuntu Nov 30 19:21:49 got hooked on visual studio Nov 30 19:21:52 I've touched it but the error is still the same Nov 30 19:22:06 RoboPhred: for which language? c/c++? Nov 30 19:22:15 yep Nov 30 19:22:18 RoboPhred: where are other .d files when using MokoMakefile? Nov 30 19:22:25 oops, this was for MBitter Nov 30 19:22:29 hold on, will check Nov 30 19:22:41 i think kdevelop is kind of a visual studio clon Nov 30 19:22:50 tried it before, failed misurably Nov 30 19:23:12 doing a 'find -name "*.d"' but this takes some time... Nov 30 19:23:21 ok Nov 30 19:23:25 the thing is MokoMakefile builds qemu out-of-tree, so the .d file are probably not where the .c files are Nov 30 19:23:25 RoboPhred: in what kind? Nov 30 19:23:35 perhaps together with the .o's Nov 30 19:23:54 I think it was an issue with somthing along the lines of automake Nov 30 19:24:11 probably should try it again sometime, probably has been fixed by now Nov 30 19:24:29 you dont have to compile it yourself when you are using ubnutu Nov 30 19:24:36 apt-get install kdevelop Nov 30 19:24:45 it never installed automake and other things though Nov 30 19:24:50 I will try it later on Nov 30 19:25:06 tey are in build/qemu Nov 30 19:25:14 you could try eclipse + cdt too Nov 30 19:25:30 but however, perhaps you should try emacs or gvim Nov 30 19:25:44 touching the .d file there solved it for that .c file but there are more .d files missing Nov 30 19:26:05 MBitter: so perhaps touch audio/audio.d there Nov 30 19:26:12 ouch Nov 30 19:26:23 its not the text editor, its just the sorting/intellesense stuff vstudio did Nov 30 19:26:48 the addition of the .d files likely broke out-of-tree building, but MokoMakefile should probably try to compensate somehow Nov 30 19:26:49 just click on a function and it takes you to where its defined, hard going trying to find all the functions manually Nov 30 19:26:56 upstream nobody tests out-of-tree builds Nov 30 19:27:01 there is nothing that emacs or vi cant do Nov 30 19:27:12 in this direction Nov 30 19:27:20 but i dont want to start a flamewar here :) Nov 30 19:27:42 tis fine, I will give another attempt at learning them some time Nov 30 19:27:46 after another 'touch build/qemu/slirp/chsum.d' qemu compiled succsessfully Nov 30 19:28:15 (bt i'll be happy to apply a patch upstream if someone manages to fix this in MokoMakefile+qemu-neo1973 Nov 30 19:28:18 ) Nov 30 19:28:22 ok, it dose not! Nov 30 19:29:15 now it is a lot more complite but the linking returns an error Nov 30 19:29:27 undefined reference to `sdl_display_init' Nov 30 19:29:50 haven't seen this one yet Nov 30 19:31:36 can you see -lSDL in the linker commandline? Nov 30 19:33:47 http://pastebin.com/d4c532583 That's the line executed with MokoMakefile Nov 30 19:34:00 -lSDL is in there Nov 30 19:35:22 My System is a Debian sid up-to-date Nov 30 19:35:40 is there a line CONFIG_SDL=yes in config-host.mak? Nov 30 19:35:53 if it's there then i have no more ideas Nov 30 19:36:18 borg_: I got gvim, how would set it up to jump to functions? Nov 30 19:37:11 RoboPhred: ctags and ctrl+T on any function name Nov 30 19:38:17 oops, it's crtl+], ctrl+T is to go back to where you were editing Nov 30 19:38:19 balrog-kun, No that line is not in build/qemu/config-host.mak Nov 30 19:38:57 MBitter: it would mean that MokoMakefile configured qemu for no SDL or qemu thought there is no SDL, but i don't know why it owuld include -lSDL then Nov 30 19:40:27 ctags is running, although with quite a lot of errors Nov 30 19:40:42 warnings* Nov 30 19:41:20 balrog-kun, I've deleted buile/qemu/Makefile so that configure run. SDL is recognized by configure Nov 30 19:41:25 alright, while this is going on, how would gtk+ be compiled? make says no target, and I see a Makefile.am file but dont know what it does Nov 30 19:43:27 MBitter: in such case and if --disable-sdl was not used then that line should be in config-host.mak Nov 30 19:43:41 RoboPhred: is there a "autogen" file? Nov 30 19:43:58 autogen should generate a Makefile out of a Makefile.am afaik Nov 30 19:44:08 autogen as a file or a program? Nov 30 19:44:26 both, it's some shell script Nov 30 19:44:36 apt-getting it Nov 30 19:44:51 no no, in the directory where you found Makefile.am Nov 30 19:44:53 meanwhile, ctags seems to be doing strange and unearthly things to my disk Nov 30 19:45:25 oh don't worrrry it's only wiping it all out Nov 30 19:45:28 brb phone Nov 30 19:45:43 ran it on the gtk folder, and its currently throwing up a file not found error for every .so it can find in the openmoko folder Nov 30 19:46:03 balrog-kun, There was not. I've added it and qemu compiled Nov 30 19:46:18 and it's running Nov 30 19:48:00 ran autogen on Makefile.am and it threw an error Nov 30 19:51:37 found info on the 'real' autogen that gnome uses, but it says it sets up the makefile for the computer it runs on, I need to compile it for the neo hardware... Nov 30 19:54:17 abraxa_: how would I compile gtk for the neo? Nov 30 19:55:51 abraxa_: you would take the gtk sourecode which oe uses, edit it, make a patch, throw it in the right directory, change the bb file and compile it with bitbake Nov 30 19:56:00 RoboPhred: there is quite a good tutorial in the openmoko wiki Nov 30 19:56:19 I searched gtk in the wiki, nothing came up Nov 30 19:56:25 not about gtk Nov 30 19:56:38 but about compiling oe things Nov 30 19:58:26 under toolchain? Nov 30 20:00:07 i meant this http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Mokomakefile#Developing_with_MokoMakefile Nov 30 20:00:14 have not worked with the toolchain Nov 30 20:01:02 why do you need to modify gtk? Nov 30 20:01:25 experementing with fixing an annoyance in the menu Nov 30 20:01:47 open the app page, select "all" from the menu, then open the menu again, the 2 arrow bars appear but are not needed Nov 30 20:01:58 i guess autogen --target= or --host= is for cross compiling Nov 30 20:02:15 and it might require setting CROSS_COMPILE= to something too, Nov 30 20:02:24 but as abraxa_ says you would better use OE Nov 30 20:02:53 how to use OE is what I wanted to know Nov 30 20:03:18 RoboPhred: you used mokomakefile and did an make update? Nov 30 20:03:25 i don't know, i don't use it :-) Nov 30 20:03:31 then look in openembedded/packages/gtk+/ Nov 30 20:04:04 aha! thats where its hidden! Nov 30 20:04:08 you want to edit gtk+_2.12.0.bb Nov 30 20:04:50 RoboPhred: do some sort of file://MY_PATCH.patch;patch=1 to the SRC_URI variable Nov 30 20:05:16 and then copy your patch to openembedded/packages/gtk+/gtk+-2.12.0 Nov 30 20:05:26 alright Nov 30 20:05:26 and than do make rebuild-package-gtk+ Nov 30 20:05:33 then you get a new gtk+ ipk Nov 30 20:05:40 this can be installed on your neo Nov 30 20:05:44 and if it works Nov 30 20:05:47 I am in way over my head here, but its the only way to learn. Nov 30 20:05:58 time to find out how to make a patch then Nov 30 20:05:59 you can attach the patch to the bugzilla Nov 30 20:06:09 and they can then use it easiely Nov 30 20:06:30 RoboPhred: thats easy ;) Nov 30 20:06:41 diff old_file.c new_file.c Nov 30 20:06:44 do I need to get the gtk+ source from anywhere specific? Nov 30 20:06:47 diff old_file.c new_file.c > my_patch.patch Nov 30 20:06:49 ;) Nov 30 20:07:01 or will the gnome svn I just got work for this Nov 30 20:07:21 I probably have to download the OE svn now, right? Nov 30 20:07:26 RoboPhred: it is in sources/ Nov 30 20:07:30 if you made a make update Nov 30 20:07:44 gtk+-2.10.14.tar.bz2 Nov 30 20:07:53 What's the difference between GTA02v4 and GTA02a4 ? Nov 30 20:07:55 and thats the version of the bb file you want to edit too Nov 30 20:08:04 i said 2.12 above Nov 30 20:08:08 thats probably wrong Nov 30 20:09:00 what would I need to edit in the bb file? Nov 30 20:09:07 just add a rev number or such? Nov 30 20:09:24 nothing, just add your patch Nov 30 20:17:30 gtkmenu talks about the size of the toplevel, anyone mind defining that? Nov 30 20:18:50 scrach that Nov 30 20:38:47 in gtk+, requisition.height is the position of the selected item? Nov 30 20:39:00 for the gtkmenu? Nov 30 20:39:13 wait, its a local var, nevermind Nov 30 20:39:48 just noticed something on a mailing list... do openmoko programs have to cope with their aspect ratio being changed to landscape mode? Nov 30 20:40:06 I would assume so Nov 30 20:40:53 OJW: of course Nov 30 20:42:08 so your window just resizes to 800x600 or whatever? Nov 30 20:42:44 exactly Nov 30 20:42:58 * OJW might need to rearrange pyroute menus then. thanks for info Nov 30 20:43:38 OJW: i think, if your application is only useable in one mode it is ok too Nov 30 20:44:39 because people can just stick to that mode, yes that's an option Nov 30 20:44:53 espacially in a route program Nov 30 20:45:21 you will mostly use it in your car, where your neo is attached somewhere in the car anyway Nov 30 20:45:53 but of course it is allways cool when it is useable with both orientations ;) Nov 30 20:48:41 oh, it's definitely not car-only ;) the first time you can get a satnav that shows cycle routes Nov 30 20:51:11 speaking of the neo + gps, can anyone verify they've had gps luck withotu an antenna? Nov 30 20:51:28 I can get three satellites blue in the SS tab of agpsui on occasion, but have yet to get a single positive position fix Nov 30 20:53:47 * HistoryOnTheRoad peeks in Nov 30 20:53:59 For a while yesterday evening I was seeing 12 satellites, even while in my car. Nov 30 20:54:05 alright, I am ready to start messing with stuff, can you repeat the cmd to compile the package? Nov 30 20:54:06 OJW: of OSM pyroute fame? :) Nov 30 20:54:28 forced to use a webclient for irc, it doesnt keep too much chat history Nov 30 20:54:40 jadams_: GPS w/o antanae ... you mean w/o external anten? Nov 30 20:54:48 HistoryOnTheRoad, yup Nov 30 20:55:08 (I was just reading raw NMEA, not looking at agpsui, so I don't know what color they would have been) Nov 30 20:55:24 HistoryOnTheRoad: you managed to run it? Nov 30 20:55:31 Yes, I've gotten several tracks w/o any extern antanae (However you spell that damned word) Nov 30 20:55:47 aerial Nov 30 20:56:18 OJW: No, not yet. Last I asked, updating was busted and I'm running an ancient version of the base stuff (but 2007.2 still) Nov 30 20:56:26 heh Nov 30 20:56:37 If the update is working, I'll try right now :) Nov 30 20:56:57 OJW: Is there a tarball download, or just the svn? Nov 30 20:57:15 svn Nov 30 20:57:45 I'd like to get something working to do mapping itself, I figured I'd need to wait a bit to get routing to work :) Nov 30 20:58:22 to do the surveying to create new maps you mean? Nov 30 20:59:08 Yup. I've been collecting some traces and adding local map bits, but have to hack a bit to get something going on the neo Nov 30 20:59:34 Most of my work to date has been on paper and with JOSM or potlatch Nov 30 21:00:02 pyroute will record tracklogs (since today) and it *should* let you sketch on the map (which you can save as GPX and view in JOSM) Nov 30 21:00:43 OJW: I'd like it tie in recordings, ie being able to say/spell out the intersections Nov 30 21:01:06 I'm not sure how well that will work, but even a bluetooth keyboard would be awkward when I'm driving :P Nov 30 21:01:42 someone else was asking about that. is there an easy way that I can ask for 3 seconds'-worth of WAV audio data from the microphone, when someone marks a waypoint? Nov 30 21:03:39 OJW: I think so. I'm not sure which OM list it was, but they were talking about recording the other day Nov 30 21:03:59 I have to update and move my wikinotes on that too Nov 30 21:04:25 pyroute was insanely slow on the neo Nov 30 21:04:31 borg_: I need help on patching, the result from diff isnt in the same format as the others Nov 30 21:04:36 for one thing, it doesnt say what file to patch Nov 30 21:04:43 * mjr recorded tracklogs today simply through gpspipe -r | gzip > track.gz Nov 30 21:05:02 Is it safe to update/upgrade now, does anyone know? Nov 30 21:05:04 mjr: Everybody says it's really slow -- but /how/ slow? Nov 30 21:05:06 mjr: if it can't handle rescaling images, maybe it needs to be limited to certain exact zoom levels Nov 30 21:05:11 RoboPhred: you need diff -u Nov 30 21:05:13 quicksand, in-sane Nov 30 21:05:20 unusable slow Nov 30 21:05:21 for "unifid diff" Nov 30 21:05:21 thankyee, will try Nov 30 21:05:25 that is, what is normally used Nov 30 21:05:37 How many seconds are in an "insane" ;-) Nov 30 21:05:43 ok, integer zoom levels it is then... Nov 30 21:06:07 OJW: How are the tiles handled? Nov 30 21:06:25 Are you drawing vectors or are you loading bitmaps for them? Nov 30 21:06:44 OJW: Integer EVERYTHING, preferably. Nov 30 21:07:29 * mjr got the impression it downloads bitmaps on the fly Nov 30 21:07:38 oh, and screw the antialiasing Nov 30 21:08:03 mjr: something tells me cairo isn't the slow part Nov 30 21:08:35 we think cairo probably *is* slow at rescaling images Nov 30 21:08:58 borg_: still complains: missing header for unified diff at line 3 of patch Nov 30 21:09:17 * HistoryOnTheRoad updates and hopes for the best :) Nov 30 21:09:20 Ah, that makes sense. Cairo drawing lines is pretty good. Rescaling bitmaps, I dunno. Nov 30 21:09:29 OJW: Cairo's probably quite slow at rescaling bitmaps, yes. Nov 30 21:09:47 Vector maps is what I'd be much more interested in seeing on the neo, though. Nov 30 21:10:10 RoboPhred: ah, look at the other .patch files and copy the first 2 lines but change the directory to yours Nov 30 21:10:25 RoboPhred: don't know if there is a better way to do this Nov 30 21:10:28 * mjr did some small OSM tweaks to start with Nov 30 21:10:31 vector maps seemed very very slow on my PC Nov 30 21:10:35 RoboPhred: oe needs this 2 lines Nov 30 21:10:40 cworth: Working is good, then we can twiddle to get it working better. Nov 30 21:11:09 HistoryOnTheRoad: Definitely. Nov 30 21:12:19 Bitmaps are fine for now. If the neo seems good enough at doing Vector stuff (and we get scaling for free then), I'm all for it. Nov 30 21:12:51 The thing about maps is that most people will want good maps around their immediate area Nov 30 21:13:24 hmm, other patches say 2.10.6, I modified 2.10.14 Nov 30 21:13:32 is that a problem> Nov 30 21:13:54 problem with vector maps, is that there's all sorts of stuff you need to do (drawing bridges, shading oceans) Nov 30 21:13:58 So, while fancy stuff is nice, we should be practical. Preloading a bunch of tiles isn't horrible, and if that will be faster then rendering on the neo Nov 30 21:14:11 OJW: nod Nov 30 21:14:37 RoboPhred: try it Nov 30 21:14:54 already am Nov 30 21:14:56 The 02 might be fast enough to look at it ... and of course we should revisit it for any new hardware rev Nov 30 21:15:10 it is probably ok, the patches are just a older and copied from version to version Nov 30 21:15:24 yeah, I could live with preload tiles Nov 30 21:15:26 the file lines in some of them ref files that dont exist, hmm Nov 30 21:15:27 OJW: You said you could scribble on the map. Any way to upload that to a server and serve it as a layer? :D Nov 30 21:15:37 it seems like lots of people think "vector maps, oh that's easy. I'll just draw a blue line for a motorway/interstate". and the OSM bitmap renderers have had to solve problems like 1000x harder than that just to get multilayered highway junctions where the sliproad goes over a bridge and smoothly merges into the road it just went over Nov 30 21:15:39 * HistoryOnTheRoad is thinking evil thoughts already Nov 30 21:16:00 looks like it took the patch Nov 30 21:16:01 OJW, *nod* Nov 30 21:16:15 * mjr is just asking on #openstreetmap how to mark a road going under another... Nov 30 21:16:21 HistoryOnTheRoad: it can save as GPX now (which you can do stuff with) - I'm working on ways to share that info Nov 30 21:16:22 RoboPhred: great :) Nov 30 21:16:42 http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Pyroute_share_server Nov 30 21:16:44 OJW: They are just thinking about those hokey GPS units they see... wow, lines, it can't be THAT hard. Nov 30 21:18:34 OJW: I'm not well versed enough in the server stuff (yet) to know what is possible ... I just know that the layers stuff seems to open some interesting possibilities Nov 30 21:20:03 Well, my PalmOS Tapwave Zodiac runs TomTom Nav 5 very well -- about one frame per second on the pseudo-3D view. Nov 30 21:20:13 I'm pretty sure it's a software rendering engine Nov 30 21:20:21 (Highly optimized, to be sure) Nov 30 21:20:33 quicksand: out of interest: does it show coastlines and seas? Nov 30 21:21:01 But 90% of the battle is pre-optimizing the data set so you don't need to be processing too much "well, this object goes on top of that, but under the other thing" in real time Nov 30 21:21:37 OJW: Yes, as solid blue. Nov 30 21:21:52 And park areas are solid green, with (occasional) streets that go through them. Nov 30 21:22:08 What's the difference between GTA02v4 and GTA02a4 ? Nov 30 21:22:12 v4 and a4 ? Nov 30 21:22:21 It does a rough beige-green-blue landscape (fairly jaggy), then overlays the streets on top of that. Nov 30 21:23:30 CVirus: not that I know anything, but probably the only difference is an typo ;) Nov 30 21:23:37 hehe Nov 30 21:24:51 borg_: how would I get it into qemu? I tried make qemu again but the change isnt there Nov 30 21:24:55 OJW: This is on a 200 MHz ARMv4T also, which if anything is a bit slower than the Neo (though the screen res is only 480x320). Nov 30 21:25:09 RoboPhred: i dont know Nov 30 21:25:38 borg_: the makefile has somthing about flash-qemu-local and flash-qemu-official, but the former throws errors everywhere Nov 30 21:25:44 on the neo i would just install it with ipkg install gtk*.ipk Nov 30 21:26:18 in that case, I would need to compile gtk+ as its own package... how? Nov 30 21:26:35 I dont even know if I can get the file over, the usb bridge refuses to function Nov 30 21:27:03 RoboPhred: you did make rebuild-package-gtk+? Nov 30 21:27:10 then you already made your own package :) Nov 30 21:28:24 it is somewhere in build/tmp/deploy/glibc/ipk/ Nov 30 21:29:42 ok, trying to fix somthing else right now Nov 30 21:29:47 the make image cmd fails horribly Nov 30 21:29:50 trying to figure out why... Nov 30 21:31:38 looks like whatever unpacking that oh-puzzles package did, it screwed up the image function Nov 30 21:32:19 thats bad Nov 30 21:32:34 then you should probably do something like make clean-package-oh-puzzle Nov 30 21:33:26 If the puzzles messed up your build, then there's something REALLY wrong. Those have been building successfully since (approximately) Day One for me. Nov 30 21:33:45 I unpackaged them and was planning to modify them later Nov 30 21:33:57 files were probably corrupted, I get that a lot from this pc Nov 30 21:35:06 hmm, its still throwing up a bunch of errors but compiled this time Nov 30 21:35:11 looks like the errors that were there before though Nov 30 21:35:31 ugh, I think upgrade is a bit busted. Nov 30 21:36:14 alright, built the image, reflashed qemu, and lets see if I actually did anything worthwile Nov 30 21:38:08 nope, no different Nov 30 21:39:11 * quicksand hands Q_Continuum a couple of aspirin Nov 30 21:39:23 Haha. Nov 30 21:39:32 alright, backing up my /etc/ppp directory to make sure I'll still have gprs when I reflash, and flashing with today's scaredycat image Nov 30 21:39:32 Nope, I drank water before passing out. Don't need 'em :D Nov 30 21:40:11 jadams_: Where are the scaredycat images? Nov 30 21:41:00 looks like I'm reflashing too ... I'm hanging on boot, I think I stressed the neo out :P Nov 30 21:42:27 anyone here used the new gllin yet? Nov 30 21:42:31 does it need a chroot or anything? Nov 30 21:42:34 HistoryOnTheRoad: check the wiki at http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Repositories for where the images and ipkgs live. Nov 30 21:43:02 jadams_: the new gllin has the chroot packaged in the .ipk. Nov 30 21:43:05 jadams_: It's all packaged together. I don't recall if it chroots Nov 30 21:43:16 Unfortunately it lives in your /home/root directory, but whatever. It works. Nov 30 21:43:48 quicksand: Thanks for the link. Have one for a dfu-util for Debian? Nov 30 21:44:10 quicksand, awesome, thanks Nov 30 21:44:14 didn't realize it was an ipk Nov 30 21:44:23 The neo is impressively counting the time I hold the power button, but not doing anything else Nov 30 21:45:09 quicksand: It seems to keep a local log and a log of the gps in the home dir Nov 30 21:45:16 hrw|gone: In the way that I hope it'll (the GTA02) will be out in December Nov 30 21:45:18 I want it :P Nov 30 21:46:19 nox-Hand: Unless you can bring miraculous forces to bear, I would say December is out. Nov 30 21:46:27 hehe Nov 30 21:46:36 Get an 01 in the meantime :D Nov 30 21:46:41 * XorA|gone wants some miraculous forces Nov 30 21:47:10 sadly, I dont have the money to bust ~900$ on 2 phones, have to wait until 02 comes out Nov 30 21:47:19 HistoryOnTheRoad: I am outta money for that =| Nov 30 21:47:34 I don't even have the dosh to buy the 02 but screw that - I want this phone :D Nov 30 21:47:35 are most people using the neo truely as a phone, or just a dev platform? Nov 30 21:48:08 If your a dev, you should have an 01 ;d Nov 30 21:48:45 qemu is good enough for me for now, until I can at least get it to do somthing interesting Nov 30 21:48:53 as in get a program onto it Nov 30 21:49:10 There not exactly mutually exclusive. :) Not all of the features of the phone work "truley as a phone" so they're developing them. :) Nov 30 21:49:22 They're* Nov 30 21:50:26 prpplague: i doubt anyone is using neo as a phone Nov 30 21:50:51 ah, thats why I was not seeing any changes... Nov 30 21:50:59 make qemu downloads a new image, it doesnt use the current one Nov 30 21:51:07 bugger Nov 30 21:51:11 balrog-kun: kinda what i figured Nov 30 21:51:20 balrog-kun: Not quite true Nov 30 21:51:29 balrog-kun: whats the attraction to using it as a dev platform then? Nov 30 21:51:43 HistoryOnTheRoad: I have seen that counting-seconds behavior before when X crashes, but not recently. At the time I couldn't find any way to fix it other than to pull the battery. You might still be able to ssh in though. Nov 30 21:51:58 anyone know the output file of make image? Nov 30 21:52:08 abraxa_: that would be good news Nov 30 21:52:50 balrog-kun: I'll use it as my main phone as soon as I can check whether openmoko-messages2 works well enough :) Nov 30 21:52:52 prpplague: it's not bad compared to other small ARM machines, performace-wise and memory size-wise Nov 30 21:53:22 it also looks quite cool Nov 30 21:54:53 balrog-kun: so it is your assertion that a platform with similiar features and appearance minus the phone options would be just as acceptable? Nov 30 21:55:48 good god, make flash-qemu-local just went insane Nov 30 21:55:50 "Writing data at 0x273f600 -- 35708928% " Nov 30 21:56:12 prpplague: probably a lot of people here have the nokia n800, thats somehow a neo without gsm module ;) Nov 30 21:56:15 prpplague: acceptable as a development board? Nov 30 21:56:33 balrog-kun: yea Nov 30 21:57:07 prpplague: it's also that there's a kernel available for it, and that the software people manage to develop for this board will probably work on a fture very cool phone Nov 30 21:57:48 this you can't assure by just making a good hardware Nov 30 21:58:10 indeed Nov 30 21:58:16 quicksand: It's not an X crash .. I was actually ssh'd in, and I was getting "bus error" ... but now it's only getting part way through the boot Nov 30 21:58:45 Beats me then. Nov 30 21:58:48 thats odd, apparently the qemu flash worked properly, yet all the "% done" values were in the 8 digit range... Nov 30 21:59:28 balrog-kun: funny thing though is there are plenty of s3c2410 based boards with similiar features, but not in the formfactor as the neo Nov 30 22:00:15 prpplague: i think there aren't so many boards with 128MB, and at this price Nov 30 22:00:40 quicksand: I think that I filled up the filesystem. That'll teach me for fiddling with the updater :S Nov 30 22:00:51 No biggie, I just need to reflash I'm sure Nov 30 22:01:04 balrog-kun: whats the neo retail for? $350 ? Nov 30 22:02:08 think its 450 Nov 30 22:02:17 $300 or $450 iirc Nov 30 22:02:24 without debug board or with Nov 30 22:02:35 that's correct for the 01 Nov 30 22:03:40 wiki says 450 for base and 600 for adv (with debug board) Nov 30 22:03:53 for GTA02 Nov 30 22:04:10 HistoryOnTheRoad: Oh yeah, it doesn't take long to fill it up. Install to the card, HOTR-san. Nov 30 22:04:10 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 Nov 30 22:04:15 ya Nov 30 22:04:57 quicksand: Sure, tell me now :P Nov 30 22:05:22 I actually moved and scp'd a bunch of stuff off, but I guess that wasn't enough Nov 30 22:05:25 Oh, I learned this the hard way too. Nov 30 22:05:31 First image: overfilled Nov 30 22:05:47 Nothing like hitting the wall to wake you up. :P Nov 30 22:05:57 balrog-kun: yea ram wise, the neo does have a pretty good base Nov 30 22:06:18 Second image: mounted a partition of the card at /usr (which is automounted late enough that booting doesn't work right) Nov 30 22:06:22 balrog-kun: you think most developers need the full extent of 128mb ram? Nov 30 22:06:59 prpplague: definitely not Nov 30 22:07:06 Third image: formatted a partition of the card as ext2, installed ipkg-link, and started installing pretty much everything to the card Nov 30 22:07:08 bu tpeople don't know what they need really :) Nov 30 22:07:33 * josch needs 128mb for WESNOTH ^^ Nov 30 22:09:52 Dumb question: Is there a .deb with DFU-util in it, or do i have to build one for Debian? Nov 30 22:10:54 umm Nov 30 22:10:57 I installed the gllin package Nov 30 22:11:01 it doesn't have start_dump in it Nov 30 22:11:05 anyone else seen this happen? Nov 30 22:11:15 quicksand: I was only 1/2 dumb ... I was saving my nmea output to the card :S Nov 30 22:11:40 HistoryOnTheRoad you can use the ones on downloads or buildhost. they are compiled static and self-sufficient Nov 30 22:11:44 jadams_: you just type ./gllin from the gllin directory Nov 30 22:12:57 roh: No need for libusb-dev? (crosses fingers) Nov 30 22:13:13 staic linked in Nov 30 22:13:14 HistoryOnTheRoad, but agpsui depends on that start_dump script being there (for the start button) Nov 30 22:13:15 sign... Nov 30 22:13:20 eh static built Nov 30 22:14:04 jadams_: So don't use the UI for now ;) Nov 30 22:14:18 balrog-kun btw.. do you already have plans for emulating gta02? just popped my mind Nov 30 22:14:27 Sounds like the UI was built for the "unofficial" version of gllin that was floating around Nov 30 22:14:47 HistoryOnTheRoad, both versions are exactly the same Nov 30 22:14:51 jadams_: It's a wrapper script, you could just create a link Nov 30 22:15:06 HistoryOnTheRoad, I know :) Nov 30 22:15:35 josch: My ipkg didn't create start_dump, if I recall. But it's the same idea Nov 30 22:16:20 HistoryOnTheRoad, even the md5sums match Nov 30 22:16:31 those for gllin I mean Nov 30 22:17:01 Ah, you mean for the binary Nov 30 22:17:06 That doesn't surprise me Nov 30 22:18:00 me neither ;-) Nov 30 22:19:14 dfi-util in /sources doesn't seem to exist :( Nov 30 22:19:40 What I'm disappointed about is GP not helping to do a new version of the driver. Nov 30 22:21:06 hoorah! got the changed into the qemu Nov 30 22:21:30 jadams_: If you start gllin manually, then run agpsui, it will work (but obviously the start button won't function) Nov 30 22:22:55 good evening Nov 30 22:31:14 roh: yes, actually it was decided that it will be needed a couple of weeks ago and i'm working on it now, although it's not exactly gta02 Nov 30 22:32:35 so this code will not be upstreamable :( Nov 30 22:38:16 oh.. why? Nov 30 22:39:49 roh: because it was deemed "not a priority" for now that the emulation be correct, the priority was set to be that GPS, wifi and accelerometers are visible to the guest, by mickey and john Nov 30 22:39:56 i partly agree with this Nov 30 22:40:39 yes... also makes sense (priority-wise) Nov 30 22:41:30 gta01 emulation stays there and is correct so this part is upstremable :) Nov 30 22:42:02 and the GPS, wiki, and accelerometers are being done in a way that they can be used for full gta02 emulation if it is decided to go for it Nov 30 22:42:50 or if somebody else is implemeting, say, a TomTom Go emulation or some other board that uses the same chips Nov 30 22:42:58 ok.. thanks for the info Nov 30 22:52:00 Is there any way to configure gllin's log-generation behavior? It keeps putting all the NMEA data into a file that gets bigger . . . and bigger . . . even when there's no client using it. Nov 30 22:53:36 quicksand: i'm afraid no way known to anyone outside Global Locate Nov 30 22:54:03 you can however try to use a fifo instead of a file, or use logrotation or something using normal log daemons Nov 30 22:54:52 Hmph. Okay, that's what I was afraid of. Thanks. Nov 30 22:55:16 so how's the openmoko project coming along? Nov 30 22:56:23 quicksand: Is this the file in /log, or the one in root's home dir? Nov 30 22:56:48 * balrog-kun has an evil plan related to gllin Nov 30 22:57:31 just one? Nov 30 22:58:21 There's gps.gz in /home/root, and then 1431-N-20071130-GTA01-A3.log in /home/root/gllin/log Nov 30 22:58:29 * mmontour is interested in evil plans Nov 30 22:58:33 Where the 1431 and 20071130 are obviously time and date Nov 30 22:58:57 When OJW was here, we started talking about evil plans :) Nov 30 22:59:16 quicksand: They seem to be the same info ... I haven't double checked though Nov 30 22:59:44 Yeah, both seem to contain ASCII NMEA, and lots of it Nov 30 23:00:14 I wrote some awk scripts to cut down on the crappareno that's in there. Nov 30 23:00:36 Every second you really don't need to know all of the satellite stuff, for instance. Nov 30 23:00:43 I should try linking them to tmpfs and have something delete them periodically Nov 30 23:00:49 can you replace the file with a fifo and have gllin write to the fifo? Nov 30 23:01:35 or would it be so stubborn as to remove the fifo and make a file on startup? Nov 30 23:01:42 quicksand: It might be possible to either link it to /dev/null or use a similarly constructed symbollic link ... but you'd have to know the pattern Nov 30 23:02:03 balrog-kun: It writes a different filename each time :( Nov 30 23:02:19 HistoryOnTheRoad: ouch, in both direcotries? Nov 30 23:02:40 also does the gpsd need to poll the filesize all the while? or does it use inotify or something? Nov 30 23:02:48 balrog-kun: naw, one is a cat of /dev/nemaPS I believe Nov 30 23:02:56 The help suggests a -nmea/+nmea option for the log file. I haven't tried it myself. Nov 30 23:03:46 I asked Micheal about docs, and he said look in the /docs dir .. but alas, that is just full of Licence crap Nov 30 23:03:52 what about the -crap_i_dont_need option Nov 30 23:03:57 i say, it should be able to read my mind Nov 30 23:03:58 :o Nov 30 23:04:01 * balrog-kun want sto use gypsy instead of gpsd when he gets around to playing with the gps, and gypsy doesn't read from regular files i believe (as it doesn't really make much sense unless if you're using an idiotic gps driver) Nov 30 23:04:06 anrp: That's what I'm looking for Nov 30 23:04:13 (that will be after executing the evil plan ofcourse) Nov 30 23:04:44 will gta02 have USB 2.0? Nov 30 23:05:03 afaik i nope Nov 30 23:05:30 s/i // Nov 30 23:05:30 balrog-kun meant: afaik nope Nov 30 23:05:32 mmontour: what help? Nov 30 23:05:41 maybe he did a strings gllin Nov 30 23:05:43 or similar Nov 30 23:05:46 Who was working on the reverse engineering of the driver, does anyone know? Nov 30 23:05:49 or maybe there is an actual help screen .. Nov 30 23:06:02 quicksand: run the executable with a "-h" Nov 30 23:06:21 mmontour: gpsd -h? Nov 30 23:06:25 HistoryOnTheRoad: ph5, Elrond.. Nov 30 23:06:55 chroot gllin gllin.real -h Nov 30 23:07:05 gllin -h doesn't do anything other than start the program Nov 30 23:07:16 balrog-kun: Are they still at it? Nov 30 23:07:43 Is there any way I can mount a jffs image not on the neo? Nov 30 23:07:47 HistoryOnTheRoad: no idea Nov 30 23:08:02 But "strings gllin" turns up at least these options: Nov 30 23:08:05 is there no bug in bugzilla concerning the echo at the other side when calling? Nov 30 23:08:09 gllin.real -low 5 Nov 30 23:08:10 HistoryOnTheRoad: there's something called "mtd simluator" in the kernel for this purpose precisely Nov 30 23:08:15 gllin.real -periodic 1 Nov 30 23:08:52 borg_: Which "other side"? Nov 30 23:09:04 when the damn phone comng out! Nov 30 23:09:17 the side, which one is talking too.. ;) Nov 30 23:09:29 oppiz: It was out last week. You missed it, it's all sold out. Nov 30 23:09:30 Haha, gllin is just a script itself. One of its lines is cat /tmp/nmeaNP |gzip >> /home/root/gps.gz & Nov 30 23:09:41 HistoryOnTheRoad, Damnit it Nov 30 23:09:45 HistoryOnTheRoad: I'm one of the guys working on RE Nov 30 23:09:52 So that dispenses with that part, at least. Nov 30 23:09:59 mmontour: Is it still in progress? Nov 30 23:10:21 balrog-kun: How do I access that? :) Nov 30 23:10:44 balrog-kun: I'm sucking down the current jffs I have, and I want to extract some files from it Nov 30 23:11:22 Yes, I'm still working on it a bit, but I've been stuck for a while. The chip wasn't responding the way I expected. Nov 30 23:12:04 mmontour: A large hammer might be helpful. :S Nov 30 23:12:36 i think home depot is having a sale on sledgehammers :o Nov 30 23:13:00 HistoryOnTheRoad: i haven't used it but there may be tutorials on the netowrk or in Documentation/ Nov 30 23:13:06 mmontour: Mickey asked if people were willing to debug a binary ... I'm not sure if that effort could assist your effort at all Nov 30 23:13:15 you will definitely need to enable it in the kernel first and then issue some magic mount command Nov 30 23:13:56 mount -t magic-jffs filename /mount/my/damn/image Nov 30 23:14:08 pretty sure its more than that Nov 30 23:14:11 well, more different Nov 30 23:14:23 since you need to set up an mtd in kernel space, then load the image into it Nov 30 23:14:27 then mount it Nov 30 23:14:29 balrog-kun: Ok ... well, I'm making a copy ... we'll see if it's usable when I dig up the tutorial Nov 30 23:14:33 like loopback but far more complicated Nov 30 23:14:43 since mtd isn't block based at all Nov 30 23:15:45 Wonderful. I always love multi-step stuff. Adding to the problem stack is always good. Nov 30 23:16:18 * HistoryOnTheRoad considers learning ARM assembly to help fix the broken GPS stuff Nov 30 23:16:39 arm is one of the better arches to play around in asm with Nov 30 23:16:57 but you'd be best served to learn another as well since the branch bits in arm insn are pretty unique Nov 30 23:17:28 steer clear of x86 Nov 30 23:17:31 qemu might also be used to get data out of a jffs image Nov 30 23:17:38 or store data Nov 30 23:17:48 I did a couple ASM languages years back. I can't type one in DEBUG in DOS anymore, but I understand the concepts stil Nov 30 23:18:19 * HistoryOnTheRoad is still waiting for it to download the damn thing Nov 30 23:19:16 anrp: x86 isn't too bad, if you use gasm. But the pre 386 can be a cluster**** to the beginner Nov 30 23:19:52 TINY, SMALL, BIG ... damn, I can't remember the others. Nov 30 23:19:58 <_diego__> real mode x86 asm is quite insane to use ... Nov 30 23:20:08 HistoryOnTheRoad: medium and large? Nov 30 23:20:20 Thankfully they were just link instructions for most of my stuff Nov 30 23:20:58 _diego__: real mode _c_ is quite insane, unless everything fits in 64k data and 64k code (small model IIRC) Nov 30 23:21:08 cesarb: Could be. knowing intel, they could be anything though. Nov 30 23:21:21 _diego__: having to decide whether you want near of far pointer... Nov 30 23:21:32 * cesarb won't speak of overlays. oops. Nov 30 23:21:42 ugh, overlays Nov 30 23:21:44 <_diego__> and trying to don't mix each others ^^ Nov 30 23:22:05 base pointer, instruction pointer. Nov 30 23:22:07 luckly, I skipped most of the madness, since my first box was a 386 Nov 30 23:22:12 Wow, was that awful. Nov 30 23:22:32 640 K should be enough for anybody - B. Gates. Nov 30 23:22:43 <_diego__> btw, i've written a good amount of asm code, for dos programs Nov 30 23:22:53 HistoryOnTheRoad: didn't we have that EMS fun? not to mention high memory... Nov 30 23:22:56 yes, it was terrible, but thankfully tech has progressed such that there's (effectively) power to waste in even some of the smallest computers Nov 30 23:23:09 in numerous cases Nov 30 23:23:13 starting gsmd gives only the following output http://celpaste.morb-design.com/pastebin.php?show=m4523ee5d <= this is wrong! as a consequence neither libgsmd-tool nor the dialer can connect zu gsmd Nov 30 23:23:36 whenever your base integer size gets smaller than what you can address, it's madness. first real mode, later PAE. Nov 30 23:24:43 josch: humm, is ./gsmd gsmd or a some wrapper script? Nov 30 23:24:57 <_diego__> 32 bit should be enough for anybody - me ... ^^ Nov 30 23:24:59 josch: gsmd doesn't know what "start" m,eans as a parameter Nov 30 23:25:22 balrog-kun, I copied /etc/init.d/gsmd to my home folder and edited it so it doesn't deamonize and I see the output Nov 30 23:25:27 _diego__: 32 bits is enough until you get above 2G of memory... Nov 30 23:25:50 balrog-kun, I do this to have all the other init code executed Nov 30 23:25:52 josch: my guess would be bad commandline params Nov 30 23:26:08 hopefully you won't need 2gb+ of memory in an assembly program :p Nov 30 23:26:14 balrog-kun, but I only use /etc/init.d/gsmd ??? Nov 30 23:26:46 how can there be bad params? Nov 30 23:27:10 Let's see Vista run in THAT, Billy boy. Nov 30 23:27:10 I doubt the bootloader fits in that anymore. Nov 30 23:27:10 Ok, back to current insanity. ARM assembly. Nov 30 23:27:11 <_diego__> cesarb: 32 bits is enough until you need more of 4G-(some memory for the OS) of memory :) Nov 30 23:28:34 what phones are there besides NEO that run linux? Nov 30 23:28:40 currently on the market Nov 30 23:28:45 <_diego__> motorola Nov 30 23:28:48 peeps[work]: go look at linuxdevices.com Nov 30 23:28:52 peeps[work]: they have a directory Nov 30 23:29:10 <_diego__> but not "free" as openmoko Nov 30 23:30:03 <_diego__> HistoryOnTheRoad: arm assembler is not too hard, but if quite confusing if u arrive from x86 asm Nov 30 23:30:36 josch: perhaps the file from conf.d doesn't get loaded so that some of the vars a re empty and gsmd doesn't set the hw flow control? (wild guess) Nov 30 23:30:46 _diego__: almost any instruction set is confusing if you arrive from x86 asm Nov 30 23:30:47 many other things could cause this Nov 30 23:31:19 _diego__: No doubt. Thankfully, I did a few others in courses first, before being sulllied with half-baked and broken workarounds for addressing and such Nov 30 23:31:30 <_diego__> cesarb: not really... z80 and x86 are quite similar (except for segment register) Nov 30 23:32:24 OK, I squeezed gllin command-line-options out of it and put them on the wiki: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Gllin#gllin_options Nov 30 23:33:23 _diego__: that's why the "almost" ;-) Nov 30 23:35:01 quicksand: Merci buckets, nice job Nov 30 23:35:20 <_diego__> the most annoying in arm asm, (as in many risc asm) is that u can't use arbitrary constant directly Nov 30 23:35:35 * HistoryOnTheRoad wonders why they put the pty output in /tmp rather then /dev Nov 30 23:35:39 I haven't tried yet, but it looks like we can turn off all that logging Nov 30 23:37:36 <_diego__> and the most annoying thing in neo1973, is that if u have battery full discharged, u have to wait some hour of charging before u can even boot Nov 30 23:38:06 <_diego__> (even if u connect it to your pc ^^) Nov 30 23:38:26 ad most annoying are all the users that complain :) Nov 30 23:38:30 *and Nov 30 23:38:51 * cesarb just noticed his neo has a new desktop background, barely visible below the HUEG clock. has it been there for long? Nov 30 23:39:26 quicksand: the manually using gps page has another option, -np, which seems quite interesting Nov 30 23:43:09 killall cat <- they didn't do it... they didn't do it... Nov 30 23:43:54 THOSE BASTARDS Nov 30 23:47:11 cesarb: that option is in the dump I posted. It's funny, -np means to turn ON the named pipe, where -pty means turn OFF pty and -nmea means turn OFF logging, whereas +np, +pty, and +nmea are the reverse. Nov 30 23:47:32 That's weird and inconsistent, and it makes me wonder whether the documentation is wrong. Nov 30 23:48:24 quicksand: it makes sense if in the source code they have variables called something like "named_pipe", "disable_pty", and "disable_nmea" ;-) Nov 30 23:48:44 quicksand: of course, to us which don't have the source, it seems inconsistent ;-) Nov 30 23:49:14 Heh, yeah. The care with which this code was crafted is becoming apparent. Nov 30 23:49:37 But I shouldn't complain, at least we HAVE a driver now. Nov 30 23:49:38 * cesarb wonders how long will it take to get a fix some 10 meters from the nearby window Nov 30 23:50:48 cesarb: it depends which side of the window you're on :) Nov 30 23:51:31 mmontour: I'm inside, on a floor tens of meters from the ground, with a quite wide window, and a building the other side of the street Nov 30 23:51:46 * cesarb hopes the "quite wide window" makes a difference Nov 30 23:53:42 urg, this gtk change it taking ages, ~10 minutes per compile, and I am just tweaking things to see what they do Nov 30 23:59:03 what could I use for voice recording with the neo? Nov 30 23:59:21 is there an app already in the feeds? Nov 30 23:59:26 brb, I'm going to a wide window with a better view of the sky to see if I can get a fix there Dec 01 00:07:05 * balrog-kun reads the gllin EULA to find out how evil his evil plan is Dec 01 00:11:00 "acquired a device that inludes software licensed by Openmoko" is quite liberal and can be interpreted to perhaps mean any device and apply to anybody Dec 01 00:11:28 quicksand: -np switches off the names pipe... that's why i added it to the wiki. names pipes tend to fill up. i prefere udp Dec 01 00:13:18 quicksand: and it's consistent, - switches off, + switches on. default for the options are different... Dec 01 00:15:00 emdete: this is quoted directly from the gllin.real -h output: Dec 01 00:15:08 +pty | -pty Enable or disable NMEA output to pty "/tmp/nmeaPTY" Dec 01 00:15:08 Default is off [-pty] Dec 01 00:15:18 +np | -np Enable or disable NMEA output to named pipe "/tmp/nmeaNP" Dec 01 00:15:18 Default is on [-np] Dec 01 00:16:36 So it's either inconsistent or wrong I figure. But in the big picture, I agree -- just get it from UDP, and turn everything else OFF. Dec 01 00:16:39 "openmoko specifically disclaims [...] warranties of [...] quiet enjoyment" Dec 01 00:16:54 * balrog-kun wonders if that's a common legal term Dec 01 00:17:01 But the current start script doesn't do that. It runs the pipe at /tmp/nmeaNP and fills up logfiles. Dec 01 00:19:10 Yes, the "warranty of quiet enjoyment" is a legal term of art. Basically, OM can't warranty that you can use your Neo or the software without third-party interference. Dec 01 00:20:40 quicksand: i see, thank. nice wording, i hadn't heard the phrase before Dec 01 00:20:49 but i don't read a whole lot of EULAs Dec 01 00:22:55 I'm an attorney, so I see this stuff a lot. :-) Dec 01 00:24:46 meh, I completely failed. The maximum I got was three sats - I got four sats _once_. Dec 01 00:25:33 how much of the sky do one need to get four sats for long enough? Dec 01 00:25:53 where are you in the world - nearest city Dec 01 00:27:07 SpeedEvil: Rio de Janeiro is close enough Dec 01 00:28:47 As I see it about 10 sats are up Dec 01 00:29:10 it seems some Neo GPSes work quite well and some work quite not at all Dec 01 00:29:19 i hope mine is in the former category Dec 01 00:30:18 most of the sats happen to be in the northeastern hemisphere of the sky Dec 01 00:31:02 hmm there are 27 satelites known for gps [old news] Dec 01 00:31:05 are there more ? Dec 01 00:31:13 * cesarb ponders... if the sun rises on the east and sets in the west... or was it the opposite? Dec 01 00:31:31 if not it's possible that most of them could be centralised over one half of the earth :S Dec 01 00:31:34 Mononoke: 30 I think Dec 01 00:31:51 * Mononoke googles and can't find more than 27 nor their positions Dec 01 00:32:09 Mononoke: no - it's just that at any time more or less may be visible at a location Dec 01 00:32:14 balrog-kun: where do you know that some work, some dont? Dec 01 00:32:39 emdete: from people's comments only so far Dec 01 00:32:43 SpeedEvil: is there any source telling you where those satelites could be atm ? Dec 01 00:32:47 Mononoke: I've got two-line elements for 30 Dec 01 00:32:54 unless I'm mis-counting Dec 01 00:33:19 balrog-kun: mine seems not to work well... Dec 01 00:33:22 yeah - 30 sounds about right. Dec 01 00:33:44 perhaps we should start a wiki to collect people, locations and expiriences... Dec 01 00:35:06 i also wonder if the gsm has some influence on gps... Dec 01 00:35:24 the interesting parts are the GPGSV lines in the output of the NMEA Dec 01 00:35:26 http://www.calsky.com/?GPS= & http://www.nstb.tc.faa.gov/Full_WaasSatelliteStatus.htm Dec 01 00:35:38 $GPGSV,3,1,11,10,73,232,27,08,70,132,24,21,15,326,34,25,36,060,13*70 Dec 01 00:35:40 for example Dec 01 00:35:49 has a report of 3 satellites Dec 01 00:36:09 no matter what I try, I can only see sats 2, 4, and 8 Dec 01 00:37:35 you can see a narrow slice of sky to the northwest? Dec 01 00:37:54 cesarb: the first link should tell you satelites around you Dec 01 00:37:57 northeast even Dec 01 00:38:10 * cesarb notices in the second link Mononoke just posted 2, 4, and 8 are near each other... which agrees with what I'm seeing Dec 01 00:38:41 SpeedEvil: I can get northwest too in the other side (I'm in a corner of the building, so I can chose northeast and northwest Dec 01 00:38:55 <_diego__> anybody know how to avoid this error: Dec 01 00:38:59 those links doesn't work for me at all ^.^ as I have fedora an they had some mad security fix breaking FF Dec 01 00:39:01 <_diego__> (openmoko-dates:1406): libecal-WARNING **: Cannot activate ECal: Failed to execute dbus-launch to autolaunch D-Bus session Dec 01 00:39:06 * cesarb goes there to check which ones are visible Dec 01 00:39:07 nw looks like it might have more Dec 01 00:39:26 though with 3, I'd have thought you'd get a 2d fix Dec 01 00:39:47 mickeyl: ping Dec 01 00:39:55 but still haven't found more than 27 satelites Dec 01 00:40:03 anyone please link me to more :) Dec 01 00:40:08 balrog-kun: pong Dec 01 00:40:31 hey mickeyl you should respond to ping in about 8 years :S Dec 01 00:40:57 mickeyl: regarding the patches in ombug 1034, i just made a fresh checkout of current svn and they applied (in order) seemingly seamlessly Dec 01 00:41:13 mickeyl: thanks for checking them out though :) Dec 01 00:41:13 hmm Dec 01 00:41:30 my oe says the 2nd one doesn't apply Dec 01 00:41:37 let me try manually Dec 01 00:41:50 does oe apply patches of its own before? Dec 01 00:42:00 no, not to libgsmd_svn Dec 01 00:42:07 only to libgsmd-devel Dec 01 00:42:15 i see -_- Dec 01 00:42:21 SpeedEvil: I can only see sats 2 and 5 that side Dec 01 00:42:30 urg, anyone here know how the gtk+ code is set up? Dec 01 00:42:48 you do know that the antenna is opposite to the hole? Dec 01 00:42:52 * cesarb wonders how since 5 is in the complete other side in that map Dec 01 00:43:08 reflections can happen Dec 01 00:43:10 SpeedEvil: yes, the hole is the gsm one, the gps one is on the other end, and the bluetooth one is somewhere in the middle Dec 01 00:43:13 balrog-kun: Hunk #4 FAILED at 243. Dec 01 00:43:14 Hunk #5 FAILED at 257. Dec 01 00:43:20 patch 2/3 Dec 01 00:43:23 As of September 2007, there are 31 actively broadcasting satellites in the GPS constellation. \o/ Dec 01 00:43:38 and the other hunks have an offset of -23 lines Dec 01 00:44:21 mickeyl: are you using the standard "patch" utility? i'll try with this as i was using cg-patch now Dec 01 00:44:32 yes, standard patch Dec 01 00:45:10 SpeedEvil: as to the 2d fix, doesn't it need a correct time? my neo's clock is completely off whack (I'm hoping someone soon will make gpds or something set the clock from the gps) Dec 01 00:45:20 the GPS clock is seperate Dec 01 00:45:48 #!/bin/ash Dec 01 00:45:49 SpeedEvil: doesn't it get turned off when you take the batteries off? Dec 01 00:45:49 date `ssh 192.168.0.200 date "+%m%d%H%M%Y.%S"` Dec 01 00:45:55 yes Dec 01 00:46:18 however, I've got some logfiles from the GPS when it has had the clock misset by being off Dec 01 00:46:21 which works fine Dec 01 00:46:27 mickeyl: also applied ok, i'll check if i uploaded the correct file :) Dec 01 00:47:33 yes, even in the right order Dec 01 00:48:00 hmm strange Dec 01 00:48:10 ok, once again to be sure Dec 01 00:48:36 SpeedEvil: it probably works fine... with 4 or more sats Dec 01 00:48:45 svn log shows r3519 on top Dec 01 00:48:54 SpeedEvil: at least the wiki says it needs 4 sats to get the clock Dec 01 00:49:26 balrog-kun: that's wrong Dec 01 00:49:28 mickey@andromeda:/local/pkg/openmoko/src/target/gsm$ sup Dec 01 00:49:28 Revision 3543. Dec 01 00:50:18 [balrog@borg gsm]$ svn up Dec 01 00:50:18 At revision 3543. Dec 01 00:50:19 ah nevermind Dec 01 00:50:25 svn log shows 3519 as well Dec 01 00:50:38 sometimes svn is strange Dec 01 00:52:13 i keep svn trees inside git trees just to be sure i know what's going on :P Dec 01 00:52:16 hmm *shrug* now it works Dec 01 00:52:58 cesarb: I think you need three sats for a 2D fix and clock, four sats for a 3D fix Dec 01 00:53:08 Maybe even fewer for the clock, I don't recall. Dec 01 00:56:49 my dad had a gps self-synchronising wall clock that hung inside the flat somewhere and usually worked Dec 01 00:57:01 it was especially cool because it was in like 99 Dec 01 00:57:13 g'night Dec 01 00:57:27 night mickey|zzZZzz Dec 01 00:58:33 qemu-native-0.9.0+cvs20070613-r5 doesn't compile Dec 01 00:58:55 quicksand: perhaps I didn't wait enough... how long would it take? Dec 01 00:59:58 where is the button to eliminate qemu from the buid process? Dec 01 01:01:13 build Dec 01 01:01:18 cesarb: It took me about 11 minutes from a cold start to my first fix, with my Neo sitting on a windowsill. Dec 01 01:01:29 why is gllin.real executed twice by the script? Dec 01 01:01:49 quicksand: I didn't wait nearly as much, and with only three sats, it's no wonder I'm not getting a fix Dec 01 01:06:21 has anyone figured out what architecture is the code in the NVRAM?.DAT files? Dec 01 01:06:24 balrog-kun: the first time it does some rapid power-cycling and self-check operations (all those things that scroll by). The second sets it to generate NMEA output once per second. Dec 01 01:06:51 I could tell you but apt would have to kill you. Dec 01 01:07:21 :) Dec 01 01:07:30 i will find out Dec 01 01:08:23 balrog-kun: I'd expect these files to be data, not code... Dec 01 01:08:41 balrog-kun: what would be found in the NVRAM/EEPROM on a smarter gps chip Dec 01 01:09:00 balrog-kun: things like the most recent almanac, the last seen fix, and so on Dec 01 01:11:39 cesarb: yes, possible Dec 01 01:16:11 balrog-kun: in fact, I'd expect these two files to be recreated if not present Dec 01 01:16:36 balrog-kun: unless they have some important data like calibration tables Dec 01 01:16:52 cesarb: yes, you can delete the NVRAMs and they'll be re-created Dec 01 01:55:55 03tick * r3545 10/trunk/src/target/gsm/ (8 files in 5 dirs): gsmd: Submitting a PIN for authentication needs to respond with status too.(Andrzej Zaborowski) Dec 01 01:57:22 03tick * r3546 10/trunk/src/target/gsm/ (9 files in 5 dirs): gsmd: Severe clean-up (Andrzej Zaborowski) Dec 01 02:00:30 this isnt making sense... somehow the gtk menu is always making the last selected item show up at the top due to the offset, yet the code doesnt seem to have anything to do with it Dec 01 02:01:17 this should be simple... Dec 01 02:03:40 yay! thanks tick Dec 01 02:03:59 balrog-kun, ^^ Dec 01 02:06:49 tick, hi Dec 01 02:07:00 jserv--, hi Dec 01 02:09:16 tick, can you clarify the usage of sleep in src/gsmd/gsmd.c (main)? Dec 01 02:09:20 -- Dec 01 02:09:30 write(fd, "\r", 1); Dec 01 02:09:30 sleep(1); Dec 01 02:09:30 atcmd_drain(fd); Dec 01 02:09:31 -- Dec 01 02:09:37 tick, I meant the part. Dec 01 02:11:14 jserv--, I think it's waiting for GSM modem's response Dec 01 02:12:10 i think this piece was added by alphaone Dec 01 02:12:11 atcmd_drain is trying to drain all msg from uart Dec 01 02:12:51 a vague explanation is at http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/commitlog/2007-August/002327.html Dec 01 02:13:04 balrog-kun, cool Dec 01 02:13:25 :) Dec 01 02:13:51 tick, yes, I see, but I am thinking of being lazy initializing GSM modem after startup. Dec 01 02:14:10 jserv--: That was an attempt to circumvent some intermittent failure of gsmd. Dec 01 02:15:02 jserv--: And I don't think it was ever particularly useful Dec 01 02:17:35 Anyway, good night Dec 01 02:17:57 night alphaone Dec 01 02:17:58 alphaone, good night Dec 01 02:18:57 o/ Dec 01 02:19:29 jserv--, I think we may not need to do that sleep now. (need to try) Dec 01 02:20:11 tick, good. :-) Dec 01 02:20:46 jserv--, verifying Dec 01 02:24:26 jserv--, I removed write '\r' and sleep. It's work for me, for the first trial. Dec 01 02:25:07 tick, you shall try the case when gsm modem is about to sleep. Dec 01 02:25:46 jserv--, you mean? Dec 01 02:26:52 tick, we need to consider the timing issues while power management is introduced. Dec 01 02:27:25 jserv--, oh I see Dec 01 02:27:33 anyone mind helping me figure out whats up with the gtkmenu code? Dec 01 02:28:07 the '\r' might potentially be useful, for example if you opened "cu /dev/ttyblahblah" and wrote half of a command with no newline at the end, and afterwards ran gsmd, the first command (ATZ) would be received by modem with some characters in front of it Dec 01 02:30:56 balrog-kun, ya, I had noticed that. but I am wondering is it work if I remove the '\r'. just curious. Dec 01 02:31:25 oh okies Dec 01 02:43:23 balrog-kun, ya '\r' does affect **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat Dec 01 02:59:57 2007