**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Dec 04 02:59:56 2007
Dec 04 03:00:33 <Kero> that helps.
Dec 04 03:00:53 <Kero> booted succesfully. SIM connected to T-mobile network.
Dec 04 03:01:45 <Kero> dialer <-> dbus does not get anywhere, tho
Dec 04 03:09:00 <balrog-kun> sowwy
Dec 04 03:17:46 <CIA-14> 03andrew * r3555 10/trunk/src/host/qemu-neo1973/ (60 files in 8 dirs): 
Dec 04 03:17:46 <CIA-14> Pull changes from cvs.savannah.nongnu.org.
Dec 04 03:17:46 <CIA-14> Bring snapshotting in sync with the -drive infrastructure.
Dec 04 03:41:42 <Kero> right. SIM seems to work (I can call my Neo from my other (foreign) cellphone), but calling from Neo eludes me.
Dec 04 03:44:07 <readon> how would i find which files are not in monotone's control?
Dec 04 03:46:11 <mwester-road> cd openembedded; mtn list changed; mtn list unknown
Dec 04 03:46:41 <readon> thanks
Dec 04 04:43:57 <Kero> http://chmeee.dyndns.org/om/todo-entry.png
Dec 04 04:44:41 <Kero> some ruby+glade stuff on the Neo. Had to cut out the About Dialog, since it prevented the app from starting (weird)
Dec 04 05:39:19 <linuxxr> are we there yet?
Dec 04 05:44:28 <linuxxr> so u need to send a finished phone to a random cellphone newb    u know,,,, like ME   to test this thing just to make sure its newbert friendly    
Dec 04 05:46:22 <cjb_ie> linuxxr: join the back of the queue :)
Dec 04 05:48:46 <linuxxr> i wonder if facial hair   messes up the touch screen any?
Dec 04 05:52:32 <Sup3rkiddo> anyone having problems building qemu....
Dec 04 06:04:19 <xzcvczx> Sup3rkiddo: everyone has numerous problems building qemu
Dec 04 06:04:55 <Sup3rkiddo> xzcvczx: heh, borking at some neon stuff
Dec 04 06:06:39 <xzcvczx> nnpiggy: ping
Dec 04 07:02:24 <CM> ~lart psplash
Dec 04 07:02:25 * apt takes large quantities of Krispy Kream donuts and stuffs them one after another down psplash's throat until psplash puts on 150lbs
Dec 04 07:02:41 <CM> Still broken :(
Dec 04 07:09:27 * xzcvczx givs cm some clarity pills
Dec 04 07:09:44 <CM> ? :)
Dec 04 07:14:47 * xzcvczx waits patiently for accelerometers and pressure sensors to arrive for his neo
Dec 04 07:16:20 <CM> Pressure sensors?
Dec 04 07:16:25 <xzcvczx> yup
Dec 04 07:17:06 <xzcvczx> you know things that can interface with the neo and with some programming tell you the pressure or with some calculation your altitude
Dec 04 07:17:24 <CM> Sure :)
Dec 04 07:17:28 <CIA-14> 03tick * r3556 10/trunk/src/target/gsm/src/libgsmd/libgsmd_passthrough.c: gsmd: libgsmd-tool will crash under atcmd mode (sean_chiang)
Dec 04 07:17:55 <xzcvczx> so why the ?
Dec 04 07:18:09 <CM> I mean, why do you want that on a phone?
Dec 04 07:18:19 <xzcvczx> for an altimeter app
Dec 04 07:18:21 <CM> What kind of project? Climbing?
Dec 04 07:18:33 <xzcvczx> thats currently paused while i am working too hard
Dec 04 07:18:40 <xzcvczx> falling
Dec 04 07:18:57 <CM> Ah, ok :)
Dec 04 07:19:24 <CM> I'm too busy too and it sucks
Dec 04 07:19:36 <CM> Moving across the country too at the same time
Dec 04 07:19:40 <xzcvczx> yeah
Dec 04 07:19:53 <xzcvczx> im just working 6 13hr days a week til the 24th
Dec 04 07:21:00 <CM> Fun.. 
Dec 04 07:21:26 <CM> Hope you're getting can take that overtime out as holidays later
Dec 04 07:22:09 <CM> I'm quitting my job here, and they're not letting me take the 15 days vacation I still haven't used..
Dec 04 07:22:33 <CIA-14> 03tick * r3557 10/trunk/src/target/gsm/ (5 files in 5 dirs): gsmd: Provide Current Call status (sean_chiang)
Dec 04 07:24:06 <cjb_ie> CM: are they legally allowed to do that?
Dec 04 07:24:19 <CIA-14> 03tick * r3558 10/trunk/src/target/gsm/src/gsmd/ext_response.c: gsmd: make extrsp_parse() can take care another input (sean_chiang)
Dec 04 07:25:04 <CM> cjb_ie: Yes, but they have to give me money for it instead 
Dec 04 07:25:31 <cjb_ie> oh, i thought you meant they weren't giving you the money either
Dec 04 07:26:59 <blindcoder> moin
Dec 04 07:49:22 <readon> it seems that psplash could fit header file automatically by distroname.
Dec 04 07:49:25 <readon> it seems that psplash could fit header file automatically by distroname.
Dec 04 07:49:51 <readon> would it be seperated by machine name?
Dec 04 07:50:40 <readon> is it also applicable to fit header by machine? how?
Dec 04 07:56:56 <NineX> hm who is building official snapshots?
Dec 04 07:57:27 <CM> NineX: The 2007.11 and 2007.8 were built by mickey|bbiab :)
Dec 04 07:58:10 <NineX> CM: any idea why in official snapshots rootfs is not published as tar 
Dec 04 07:58:18 <NineX> ?
Dec 04 07:58:43 <CM> NineX: Probably just so that no one will flash it
Dec 04 07:58:54 <NineX> building openmoko using makefile is a horror
Dec 04 07:58:58 <CM> Ask mickeyl and I'm sure he'll put it somewhere you can get it
Dec 04 07:59:13 <esben> What is the plan with this new monotone.openmoko.org database?
Dec 04 07:59:34 <CM> NineX: It was good for almost tow months, but the last few days seems it's been as bad as in september
Dec 04 07:59:43 <CM> s/tow/two
Dec 04 07:59:51 <esben> Will there be community submits to montone.openmoko.org, or should they go more directly to monotone.openembedded.org
Dec 04 08:00:17 <NineX> CM: 6 hours wait, to se an error that some patches cant download
Dec 04 08:00:20 <CM> esben: I think monotone.openmoko is supposed to be the stable repo
Dec 04 08:00:36 <CM> NineX: Yes, the first build is a pain, and they're working on that too
Dec 04 08:00:55 <CM> NineX: The plan is to provide a downloadable toolchain
Dec 04 08:01:07 <NineX> CM: there sholud be implemented some "fetch-sources"
Dec 04 08:01:23 <CM> Oh, there is
Dec 04 08:01:39 <NineX> CM: like in gentoo portage "emerge --fetch somethink"
Dec 04 08:01:40 <CM> make fetch-all or something like that
Dec 04 08:01:53 <CM> brb
Dec 04 08:02:38 <esben> CM: yes, I understand and appreciate having a stable repo for OM. Just wondering who will be be responsible for merging between montone.openmoko.org and monotone.openembedded.org.
Dec 04 08:02:55 <NineX> CM make clean will delete all downloaded sources?
Dec 04 08:03:30 <CM> NineX: No, it will just clear out your build/tmp dir
Dec 04 08:03:49 <CM> esben: Not sure, but I guess XorA|gone or someone at OM in .tw
Dec 04 08:04:11 <esben> Let's say I submit a change to gcc-package.inc to monotone.openmoko.org, and somebody else did a conflicting change on monotone.openembedded.org in the same file, or perhaps in glibc which break stuff.
Dec 04 08:04:13 <CM> NineX: psplash is broken, but XorA is working on it
Dec 04 08:04:43 <CM> esben: I don't think anyone will change mtn.openmoko.org directly
Dec 04 08:04:47 <NineX> prefetch-sources
Dec 04 08:04:47 <esben> CM: also wondering who will be able to submit.
Dec 04 08:04:48 <NineX>  :>
Dec 04 08:05:09 <CM> esben: I think it will just import known working revisions from oe
Dec 04 08:05:33 <esben> CM: Ah, ok.
Dec 04 08:05:36 <CM> NineX: Ah, ok. Heh. Never remember that command. for bitbake I think it was -fetchall
Dec 04 08:07:06 <CM> esben: But that's just what I think, having seen some discussions here and in #oe. Ask XorA or mickeyl or maybe even rwhitby to be sure. :)
Dec 04 08:07:31 <esben> ok, thanks.
Dec 04 08:48:47 <torpor> well i'm happy to report that i've finished a complete build with the new build server setup
Dec 04 08:49:00 <torpor> one question i have though, is whats this 2007.2 all about?  how do i switch to 2007.11?
Dec 04 08:51:59 <ynezz> torpor: 2007.2 is revision number, not month number
Dec 04 09:03:07 <torpor> yeah but then what is 2007.11?
Dec 04 09:03:43 <zash> om as of november '07?
Dec 04 09:11:49 <ynezz> torpor: yep, my mistake :)
Dec 04 09:15:07 <torpor> if that is the case then how do i switch my build to it .. i don't get that, to be honest.
Dec 04 09:16:24 <hhf423> moin
Dec 04 09:16:25 <CoreDump> If I am not mistaken, the official snapshots were hand-crafted by one OM developer
Dec 04 09:16:40 <hhf423> CoreDump: you are not mistaken
Dec 04 09:17:00 <hhf423> I have filled a bug on the non-existance of nightly builds :-)
Dec 04 09:17:18 <CoreDump> torpor: if you build against the latest OM & OE trees, your build should - in theory - be identical the the snapshot
Dec 04 09:17:57 <torpor> well i'm doing that, and i haven't confirmed that they are the same, but whatever - i've got what i need to continue app development.  i just was confused by all this 2007.2/2007.11 talk, and noticed that the build i just finished was 2007.2 .. 
Dec 04 09:19:09 <CoreDump> someone probably forgot to update the version in the OM tree ;)
Dec 04 09:20:12 <readon> how to debug image recipes? use -D have no effect
Dec 04 09:24:06 <CoreDump> depends on what your problem is
Dec 04 09:26:29 <readon> ERROR: No providers of runtime build target ${IMAGE_INSTALL} (for ['/home/sbox/moko/openmeter/packages/openmeter/openmeter-minigui-image.bb'])
Dec 04 09:28:54 * Kronk says hi :)
Dec 04 09:29:28 <Kronk> And waves @ Rip ;)
Dec 04 09:39:35 <CoreDump> readon: the variable ${IMAGE_INSTALL} is not set for whatever reason
Dec 04 09:41:37 <readon> it seems that oe have changed a lot. my recipe was working several month ago.
Dec 04 09:42:35 <CoreDump> yes, OE is a moving target
Dec 04 09:43:38 <readon> :(
Dec 04 09:44:54 <CoreDump> annoying at times, yes, but it's better than stand-still and bitrot IMO
Dec 04 09:46:37 <readon> sure
Dec 04 09:48:02 <readon> i think SRC_URI would automatically find the proper file in different distro,is that ture?
Dec 04 09:48:28 <readon> would it also do that with different machine?
Dec 04 09:48:46 <readon> as psplash's header file
Dec 04 09:49:26 <CIA-14> 03john_lee * r3559 10/developers/john_lee/toolkit/ (15 files in 5 dirs): 
Dec 04 09:49:26 <CIA-14> Change layout to install with openmoko toolchain
Dec 04 09:49:26 <CIA-14> Remove myapp to use external openmoko-sample2
Dec 04 09:49:26 <CIA-14> Update README to reflact the changes.
Dec 04 09:58:30 <CM> torpor: Was the same confusion when 2007.8 came out. The official releases have a monthly number, but the 2007.1 and 2007.2 refer to version 1 and 2 of the openmoko theme and programs. Both releases are 2007.2 :)
Dec 04 10:04:33 <flexd> Shouldnt it probably be like 2007.2.11
Dec 04 10:04:43 <flexd> For less confusion
Dec 04 10:05:12 * rwhitby votes to use the MTN sha1 hash for less confusion ...
Dec 04 10:16:09 * CM makes a 9204fc74c0fcae55151b1d148792593773aecbf8 out of rwhitby
Dec 04 10:22:42 <torpor> CM: gotcha.
Dec 04 10:25:17 <zash> rwhitby: sha1 is for pussies, real men use sha512 ;)
Dec 04 10:25:44 * CoreDump believes sha256 will do for now...
Dec 04 10:31:46 <josch> there is no much difference in speed between sha1 and sha256 so sha256 is a good deal
Dec 04 10:32:43 <zash> sha256 of imagefiles then :D
Dec 04 10:34:31 <josch> on videos sha1sum and sha256sum performed very equal for me
Dec 04 10:40:58 * ScaredyCat votes for stupid codenames so that no one actually knows wtf the version number is
Dec 04 10:42:01 <zash> how about strings /dev/urandom | head -n 1
Dec 04 10:42:07 <josch> hahah
Dec 04 10:42:54 <josch> okay lets name our child �/�Ϲه���ﾓ>��^�o�g]�A(DW��? then
Dec 04 10:43:25 <zash> you forgot strings
Dec 04 10:44:04 <josch> who would need strings??
Dec 04 10:44:07 <zash> hehe
Dec 04 10:50:48 <flexd> &H`h3
Dec 04 10:50:50 <flexd> {jY-
Dec 04 10:50:54 <flexd> ROA!
Dec 04 10:50:56 <flexd> R
Dec 04 10:52:56 <gi-el> those make good passwords
Dec 04 10:53:29 <CoreDump> http://xkcd.com/327/
Dec 04 10:56:56 <josch> a classic
Dec 04 10:57:14 <CoreDump> indeed
Dec 04 10:57:21 <CoreDump> I love this guy
Dec 04 10:58:07 <josch> who doesnt? (and I'm hetero)
Dec 04 10:58:34 <CoreDump> well, not "this" kind of love ;)
Dec 04 10:58:56 <josch> all my newbie friend learned what sql injections are from this comic
Dec 04 10:59:21 <gi-el> haha you have n00b friends!
Dec 04 10:59:23 <gi-el> :P
Dec 04 10:59:46 <josch> gi-el, lucky you only having l33t h4x0r friends
Dec 04 11:00:05 <gi-el> my friends are so leet, it was called eLiTe back then
Dec 04 11:01:24 <josch> lite like in windows power dvd lite edition? :-P
Dec 04 11:01:46 <gi-el> elite as in the word, elite
Dec 04 11:01:50 <Hicks> Hello guys
Dec 04 11:02:11 <Hicks> Is there anyone available for discussing some gllin stuff with me please?
Dec 04 11:02:49 <josch> what gllin stuff?
Dec 04 11:02:55 <Hicks> well
Dec 04 11:03:08 <Hicks> i have made some tests with my coworker today who has a MIO DigiWalker
Dec 04 11:03:24 <Hicks> i have made a little app on our neo to display the longitude / latitude / altitude
Dec 04 11:03:34 <Hicks> so we can compare the two outputs
Dec 04 11:03:36 <Hicks> and well...
Dec 04 11:04:13 <Hicks> The outputs are totally differents, we have a difference between long / lat of the two devices which is not constants, and the altitude is just wrong randomly
Dec 04 11:04:45 <Hicks> so i was wondering, is there something i have to do with post processing the GPS data, or is it possible that it is set up in factory to something wrong?
Dec 04 11:04:51 <flexd> Are you sure your program is working okay?
Dec 04 11:04:54 <Hicks> yes
Dec 04 11:04:56 <Hicks> totally
Dec 04 11:05:17 <Hicks> We had the same differences with just catting /tmp/nmeaNP
Dec 04 11:05:21 <josch> Hicks, I used gllin too and put the data on a map - my output was totally correct
Dec 04 11:05:26 <Hicks> my program just splits the GPGGA sentence
Dec 04 11:05:32 <Hicks> oh
Dec 04 11:05:37 <Hicks> josh where do you live?
Dec 04 11:05:45 <josch> Hicks, germany
Dec 04 11:05:48 <Hicks> hmm
Dec 04 11:06:01 <Hicks> well i'm from france, do you think there can be some problem with our position? =/
Dec 04 11:06:04 <gi-el> maybe, something with decimal a part vs minutes/seconds?
Dec 04 11:06:14 <gi-el> -a
Dec 04 11:06:15 <josch> ???
Dec 04 11:06:29 <Hicks> i mean, did someone already test the output of the GPS in france?
Dec 04 11:06:47 <Hicks> or is it supposed to work everywhere without difference?
Dec 04 11:06:53 <gi-el> 6.5 degrees vs 6 degrees 30 minutes
Dec 04 11:07:02 <josch> I think gps should work reliable no matter wether you are in europe or at the south pole :-)
Dec 04 11:07:02 <Hicks> o
Dec 04 11:07:04 <Hicks> ooooh
Dec 04 11:07:05 <Hicks> dang
Dec 04 11:07:08 <Hicks> people
Dec 04 11:07:10 <Hicks> my bad :D
Dec 04 11:07:15 <josch> Xplain
Dec 04 11:07:17 <Hicks> gi-el you pointed it right
Dec 04 11:07:33 <Hicks> So if i understand what you mean, the decimals are 100th of minutes?
Dec 04 11:07:40 <gi-el> Hicks: just a thought, not sure if that's it, but that might be it
Dec 04 11:07:41 <josch> omg...
Dec 04 11:07:53 <Hicks> what josh?
Dec 04 11:08:12 <josch> just speak further, I'm reading
Dec 04 11:08:14 <josch> :-)
Dec 04 11:09:14 <Hicks> well it means that if for instance i get 45.3514 it is in  fact 45°, (60/100)*35 minutes etc?
Dec 04 11:09:37 <Hicks> i think i got it, i thought the GPS output was already in this form
Dec 04 11:09:52 <Hicks> or did i misunderstood again?
Dec 04 11:09:58 <cesarb> Is anyone's build failing at external-toolchain-1.0?
Dec 04 11:09:59 <josch> I think this is it
Dec 04 11:10:12 <cesarb> | The external toolchain could not be found in /usr/local/openmoko/arm!
Dec 04 11:10:15 <Hicks> Josh why this "OMG..."? :)
Dec 04 11:10:56 <josch> Hicks, because the solution was only in converting numbers from one unit to the other and I study physics - have this everyday
Dec 04 11:11:22 <josch> Hicks, and it's really JoSch or josch - as an american you speak it as Yosh
Dec 04 11:11:46 <Hicks> So what, does it means that because you study physics, the solution was obvious for me? i havnt read anywhere that the raw ouput was base 100
Dec 04 11:11:50 <Nr18> will there bet hsdpa support in the future?
Dec 04 11:11:57 <Hicks> or whatever the terms you use to describe it
Dec 04 11:12:06 <Hicks> yes sorry Josch
Dec 04 11:12:22 <josch> Hicks, I meant not to offend you - np
Dec 04 11:12:40 <josch> Hicks, would be great if it works now
Dec 04 11:12:44 <flexd> l2tab complete!
Dec 04 11:12:52 <flexd> like josch or Hicks 
Dec 04 11:12:58 <josch> Hicks, how about using an existing gps app?
Dec 04 11:13:09 <josch> flexd, ??
Dec 04 11:13:14 <Hicks> no no you arn't offending me, i just have read what was available last saturday when i had the gllin package and no doc was available
Dec 04 11:13:23 <Hicks> flexd what is it?
Dec 04 11:13:29 <Hicks> NMEA parsing app?
Dec 04 11:13:38 <readon> how to print out current distro_feature & machine_feature?
Dec 04 11:13:49 <Hicks> isnt it in /etc/issue?
Dec 04 11:13:58 <Hicks> and uname -a && lspci?
Dec 04 11:14:23 <josch> Hicks, wikipedia says to nmea output: "Longitude in Degrees/Minutes"
Dec 04 11:15:16 <Hicks> right
Dec 04 11:15:21 <josch> Hicks, maybe try something like APGSUI? it will print your coordinates correctly
Dec 04 11:15:24 <Hicks> i'll make the conversion :)
Dec 04 11:15:43 <Hicks> my appologies for this, obviously you pointed me the misstake i've been doing
Dec 04 11:16:13 <flexd> josch, Hicks just suggesting you guys should use tab completion ;) 
Dec 04 11:16:22 <Hicks> Josch, since i see you know quite a lot about this, do you know some place on the net where i can find a GPS to Lambert III position?
Dec 04 11:16:22 <josch> flexd, I am?
Dec 04 11:16:37 <flexd> josch: nevermind, he wasnt since he called you Josh? =)
Dec 04 11:16:43 * flexd hides now
Dec 04 11:16:46 <Hicks> tab completion on what?
Dec 04 11:16:52 <Hicks> oh lol on names?
Dec 04 11:16:52 <josch> Hicks, on the nicks
Dec 04 11:17:05 <Hicks> i dont think it works on my irc soft
Dec 04 11:17:07 <josch> Hicks, just type jo[tab] and be surprised
Dec 04 11:17:10 <Hicks> let me try :)
Dec 04 11:17:20 <flexd> What irc client do you use?
Dec 04 11:17:29 <Hicks> Colloquy on OSX
Dec 04 11:17:37 <Hicks> yes it works
Dec 04 11:17:40 <Hicks> didnt notice it :)
Dec 04 11:17:42 * flexd votes macirssi
Dec 04 11:18:19 <Hicks> So Josch do you know some link about my previous question please?
Dec 04 11:18:53 <Hicks> Geolocalising on a Lambert III projection using the GPS output, given that i have 5 points placed on the map already?
Dec 04 11:19:23 <josch> Hicks, no I not really know a lot about this I got into this by helping another one writing a osm dumping script for his gps map application but this way I only got familiar with mercator projection that googlemaps and osm use
Dec 04 11:19:35 <Hicks> ooh ok
Dec 04 11:20:14 <Hicks> Did your friend's map application run on the Neo smoothly?
Dec 04 11:20:59 <Hicks> i never tried openstreet maps
Dec 04 11:21:07 <josch> Hicks, it runs mega smoothly ^^
Dec 04 11:21:11 <Hicks> cool
Dec 04 11:21:16 <Hicks> i'll try it :)
Dec 04 11:21:33 <Hicks> thanks a lot for your help Josch, i'll be there again later :)
Dec 04 11:21:34 <josch> Hicks, unfortunately it's not compelet right now - still in beta stage
Dec 04 11:21:38 <Hicks> yes
Dec 04 11:21:47 <Hicks> no problem, for now i just want to "play" with our neo :)
Dec 04 11:21:56 <josch> Hicks, but maybe msg gamin so you can ask him about this
Dec 04 11:22:09 <Hicks> That's what i've been doing since i have gllin running lol
Dec 04 11:22:18 <Hicks> oh ok
Dec 04 11:22:20 <Hicks> i will
Dec 04 11:22:41 <Hicks> Thanks again and see you all later, and excuse my english ;)
Dec 04 11:23:33 <josch> Hicks, the least of us are native speakers
Dec 04 11:23:44 <Hicks> native english speakers?
Dec 04 11:24:12 <Hicks> well i feel that my english became poor without practice =/
Dec 04 11:24:36 <Hicks> You guys practice everyday that's why you speak nice ^^
Dec 04 11:25:33 <josch> Hicks, well I only learn from others writing here and writing on the internetz and since they are mostly also no native english speakers I will never know if my english is correct or not :-D
Dec 04 11:25:51 <Hicks> lol
Dec 04 11:26:16 <Hicks> that sounds like that a new language will be born soon :D
Dec 04 11:26:48 <Hicks> i did learn english with listening to other people too, never had an english lesson =/
Dec 04 11:27:24 <Hicks> But it has been way too long since i havnt been talking / writing english =/
Dec 04 11:27:46 <rwhitby> Your english is magnitudes better than my <insert your native language here>
Dec 04 11:27:57 <Hicks> lol
Dec 04 11:28:11 <PBeck> hoi
Dec 04 11:28:33 <rwhitby> what's "lol" in your native tongue?
Dec 04 11:28:50 <Hicks> lol is MDR which means Mort de Rire, Dead Laughing :)
Dec 04 11:29:22 <Hicks> that's what you were asking, the equivalence in French of "lol" right?
Dec 04 11:30:07 <CIA-14> 03thomas * r3560 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-dialer2/ (ChangeLog src/phone-kit/moko-pin.c src/phone-kit/moko-pin.h): 
Dec 04 11:30:07 <CIA-14> * src/phone-kit/moko-pin.c:
Dec 04 11:30:07 <CIA-14> * src/phone-kit/moko-pin.h:
Dec 04 11:30:07 <CIA-14> Add error message function
Dec 04 11:30:09 <Hicks> well the thing is in french we use "lol". MDR is most like lmao
Dec 04 11:30:36 <rwhitby> I'll have to remember MdR.
Dec 04 11:30:52 <Hicks> So if you speak with a french person, he will be surprised ;)
Dec 04 11:31:28 <Hicks> But french people on the chats really do use english accronyms such as lol, brb, ttyl etc
Dec 04 11:31:41 <Hicks> it's almost part of the 21th century youth culture :)
Dec 04 11:32:18 <Hicks> i think i'm thinking loud alone... See you all later and have fun ;)
Dec 04 11:47:10 <Hopscotch> mahlzeit
Dec 04 11:48:59 <josch> Hopscotch, j0
Dec 04 12:07:47 <josch> how to disable pslash in my openmoko builds?
Dec 04 12:18:33 <fsteinel> msg NickServ IDENTIFY flostone
Dec 04 12:19:37 <mickeyl> there goes your identity
Dec 04 12:19:39 * mickeyl chuckles
Dec 04 12:19:44 <josch> fsteinel, lol
Dec 04 12:19:52 <ScaredyCat> roflmao
Dec 04 12:19:59 <mickeyl> :D
Dec 04 12:20:06 <mickeyl> josch: ipkg remove psplash
Dec 04 12:20:09 <fsteinel> yeah bitchx sucks (/)
Dec 04 12:20:34 <ScaredyCat> mickeyl: errm
Dec 04 12:20:43 <ScaredyCat> in the build not after it :)
Dec 04 12:20:55 <ScaredyCat> psplash is busted in oe
Dec 04 12:40:33 <IfWorkCouldKill> Is the Neo1973 compatible to these thingies here? http://www.technologynewsdaily.com/node/7817
Dec 04 12:41:57 <wibbit> IfWorkCouldKill: from what I can remember, it has been said that the Neo1973 does work with the new high density cards
Dec 04 12:42:00 <Quinn_Storm> hey, was wondering, anyone found a fix for the needing to restart the modem on the 01b4 a few times to get it to work? once that is done enough times, it comes up and works fine (though you can't restart qtopia again after that, it just gets confused and stops registering to networks)
Dec 04 12:42:11 <wibbit> IfWorkCouldKill: I would have a quick look on the wiki, where it talks about the hardware compatability
Dec 04 12:42:25 <IfWorkCouldKill> ah ok thanks!
Dec 04 12:45:37 <Quinn_Storm> also, any new fun stuff in the openmoko images? I'd prefer it to qtopia if it worked
Dec 04 12:50:34 <NineX> someone have the problem with power on device after select power off from u-boot
Dec 04 12:56:05 <NineX> some one can tell me what is doing by u-boot option "factory defaults"
Dec 04 12:57:37 * ScaredyCat wants a tux droid
Dec 04 12:59:53 <NineX> damn
Dec 04 13:18:47 <xcasex> anyone tried to run canola on their moko yet? :D
Dec 04 13:28:37 <josch> lol breakfast
Dec 04 13:35:47 <wibbit> I wonder what Mickey is breaking so quickly?
Dec 04 13:49:06 <CIA-14> 03thomas * r3561 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-dialer2/ (ChangeLog src/phone-kit/moko-network.c): 
Dec 04 13:49:06 <CIA-14> * src/phone-kit/moko-network.c: (on_network_registered),
Dec 04 13:49:06 <CIA-14> (phone_msghandler), (connection_source_dispatch),
Dec 04 13:49:06 <CIA-14> (network_init_gsmd):
Dec 04 13:49:06 <CIA-14> Fix bug 1028 (PIN dialog appears multiple times) by using the pin and
Dec 04 13:49:08 <CIA-14> phone power callback messages.
Dec 04 14:02:22 <sandos> ouch, someone with the username "OpenMoko" is asking about Asus EEE 701 in the expansys forum ;)
Dec 04 14:07:27 <wibbit> Why's that a bad thing sados?
Dec 04 14:10:10 <Mononoke> isn't OpenMoko registrated trademark ?
Dec 04 14:12:24 <sandos> wibbit: well I was implying someone choose the asus instead of the neo :)
Dec 04 14:12:58 <sandos> actually, I am a lot less interested in the gta02 now that EEE exists
Dec 04 14:13:18 <Stephmw> not quite as pocketable though
Dec 04 14:13:26 * XorA wants a n810
Dec 04 14:13:45 <cjb_ie> i'm interested in the gta02 because second hand 01s will probably become cheaper when it's released :-)
Dec 04 14:14:13 <Stephmw> hahaha
Dec 04 14:14:25 <Stephmw> XorA: you're just a gadget whore...
Dec 04 14:14:30 <Stephmw> XorA: ... like the rest of us
Dec 04 14:15:12 <XorA> nah, im trying to get less gadgets :-)
Dec 04 14:15:20 <XorA> one down, loads to go :-)
Dec 04 14:15:31 <Fatal> bah, get a bigger bag :)
Dec 04 14:15:32 <wibbit> Ahh, okay
Dec 04 14:16:06 <Stephmw> what else do you have going?
Dec 04 14:16:23 * Stephmw sees himself financing XorA's acquisitions
Dec 04 14:17:21 <XorA> Stephmw: you already financed the n810 :-)
Dec 04 14:22:36 <ynezz> is n810 available somewhere in EU yet?
Dec 04 14:23:47 <XorA> nope :-(
Dec 04 14:26:48 <mickeyl> NineX: uploading a tarball for you now...
Dec 04 14:28:50 <XorA> ynezz: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/NOKIA-N810-INTERNET-TABLET-WEB-BRAND-NEW-BNIB-Sealed_W0QQitemZ270190825932QQihZ017QQcategoryZ38331QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Dec 04 14:31:42 <ynezz> + shipping + VAT
Dec 04 14:31:48 <ynezz> pretty costy
Dec 04 14:32:10 * XorA bets there is a huge pile of n800 they are trying to clear first in .eu
Dec 04 14:32:12 <gi-el>  i'm in a meeting now with someone from nokia research :)
Dec 04 14:32:54 <josch> gi-el, get us some insider infos then :-D
Dec 04 14:33:02 <gi-el> about what?
Dec 04 14:33:12 <ynezz> like specs for  n880
Dec 04 14:33:19 <gi-el> hm
Dec 04 14:33:19 <josch> well if you do they wouldn't be inside anymore but who cares? ^^
Dec 04 14:33:34 <gi-el> when's the n880 due?
Dec 04 14:33:41 <ynezz> end of 2010
Dec 04 14:33:47 <XorA> just give us cheap n900 models :-)
Dec 04 14:33:56 <gi-el> if there's an informal moment i'll see what i can do :P
Dec 04 14:34:16 <Fatal> touch his thigh and ask it in with a smooth voice
Dec 04 14:34:33 <Fatal> s/in//
Dec 04 14:34:33 <apt> Fatal meant: touch his thigh and ask it  with a smooth voice
Dec 04 14:34:41 <gi-el> cheap devices won't work, i tried that :(
Dec 04 14:35:27 * XorA is scared of nokia staff as they seem to be either female and 7ft tall or judo experts :-)
Dec 04 14:35:41 <gi-el> not this one
Dec 04 14:35:52 <gi-el> i think i can beat this dude in a fight
Dec 04 14:36:06 <gi-el> unless he has those finnish laser eyes
Dec 04 14:36:19 <XorA> beat him, steal his n810 :-)
Dec 04 14:36:32 <gi-el> i don;t think he has one with him right now
Dec 04 14:36:37 <mickeyl> NineX: done
Dec 04 14:36:41 <XorA> bah, they can predict our plans
Dec 04 14:36:43 <Stephmw> gi-el: which country?
Dec 04 14:36:49 <gi-el> Stephmw: which country what?
Dec 04 14:37:16 <gi-el> i'm from, i'm at, the nokia dude's from, nokia is from?
Dec 04 14:37:17 <gi-el> :)
Dec 04 14:37:17 <jeddy3> i think n800 is not discontinued
Dec 04 14:37:33 <Stephmw> gi-el: the nokia dude is from ;)
Dec 04 14:37:40 <gi-el> Stephmw: finland :)
Dec 04 14:37:48 <jeddy3> the plan is to make and sell them alongside each other
Dec 04 14:38:04 <Stephmw> gi-el: no chance I'd know him then ;)
Dec 04 14:38:33 <Stephmw> gi-el: last time I went to Finland was to see a different company
Dec 04 14:40:21 <gi-el> i see you have been to beijing recently?
Dec 04 14:40:43 <Stephmw> yeah, only spent two days there unfortunately
Dec 04 14:41:01 <gi-el> i've been there 3 times in the last 2 years, but not much time to look around as well :(
Dec 04 14:41:53 <gi-el> maybe i should upload some pictures
Dec 04 14:42:03 <gi-el> oh, don't have them on this laptop
Dec 04 14:42:42 <mbuf> other than ssh into neo and do "ipkg install" manually, does anyone here do remote ipkg package installation? if yes, how?
Dec 04 14:43:26 <edistar> mbuf: via VNC?
Dec 04 14:45:04 <mbuf> edistar, that would again be manual, right? i was thinking of automating remote installations; right now with "ssh -X root@neo ipkg install foo.ipk" it segfaults
Dec 04 14:45:21 <zash> why -X?
Dec 04 14:45:57 <zash> no need to tunnel X11 for text-only stuff
Dec 04 14:45:57 <mbuf> zash, not required here
Dec 04 14:46:30 <gi-el> you can install an ftp deamon with a trigger on upload :P
Dec 04 14:46:33 <Xx13> don't think -X is supported
Dec 04 14:47:12 <gi-el> or just make a script that keeps an eye on a certain dir and installs all ipks that end up there
Dec 04 14:47:16 <mbuf> Xx13, ssh -X will export GUI to desktop, that works fine
Dec 04 14:47:18 <gi-el> so you just scp the ipk
Dec 04 14:47:23 <zash> make a script that scp's a file and installs
Dec 04 14:47:53 <mbuf> gi-el, yes, scp works; ssh ipkg list works; but, ssh with ipkg install segfaults
Dec 04 14:48:01 <Xx13> mbuf: think i tried it couple of days ago, - didn't work
Dec 04 14:48:27 <gi-el> mbuf: and if you manually ssh and type ipkg install?
Dec 04 14:48:37 <mbuf> i even tried invoking a remote shell script to install an ipkg from host PC, same result
Dec 04 14:48:46 <zash> scp $1 root@neo: && ssh root@neo ipkg install `echo $1 | basename`
Dec 04 14:48:48 <mbuf> gi-el, manual ssh and doing ipkg install on target Neo works fine
Dec 04 14:49:14 <gi-el> weird
Dec 04 14:50:03 <mbuf> zash, thanks will try that
Dec 04 14:57:28 <CM> abraxa_: We need new screenshots: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Music_Player
Dec 04 14:58:08 <mjr> Xx13, what doesn't work is -X in the dropbear _client_
Dec 04 15:00:22 <SpeedEvil> you don't need -X - it's just nice. You can do the export DISPLAY= thing and put X over the main link
Dec 04 15:01:00 <mjr> also, you can do port forwards manually
Dec 04 15:01:18 <mjr> but in the case of the USB link, running X unencrypted isn't probably usually that bad :]
Dec 04 15:01:24 <Xx13> i couldn't get my desktop X to listen to tcp   ;) so i thought ssh -X should be easier
Dec 04 15:01:48 <mjr> well, it should work to that direction
Dec 04 15:02:11 <mjr> AFAIK and all that
Dec 04 15:02:14 <Xx13> mjr: maybe i mixed up host and client 
Dec 04 15:03:57 <adjaxio> Bonne soirer a la prochaine +++ / Good Bye +++
Dec 04 15:12:16 <CIA-14> 03john_lee * r3562 10/developers/john_lee/toolkit/ (5 files in 3 dirs): Fix multiple path error
Dec 04 15:21:20 <edistar> where can I download a tarball of all the icons designed for 2007.2 up to now?
Dec 04 15:24:32 <CVirus> yeah I want that too
Dec 04 15:24:36 <CVirus> I love icons
Dec 04 15:25:18 <zedstar> have a look in build/tmp/rootfs/usr/share/icons
Dec 04 15:33:44 <edistar> zedstar: thx
Dec 04 15:36:06 <ScaredyCat> you sad git
Dec 04 15:46:31 * hhf423 yawns
Dec 04 15:47:21 <CIA-14> 03john_lee * r3563 10/developers/john_lee/toolkit/ (README bin/om-conf bin/om-make-ipkg): 
Dec 04 15:47:21 <CIA-14> * improve om-make-ipkg, enable custom ipkg control file
Dec 04 15:47:21 <CIA-14> * remove set -x
Dec 04 15:47:21 <CIA-14> * update README, add the new function of om-make-ipkg
Dec 04 15:59:21 <Hicks> gamin:
Dec 04 15:59:25 <Hicks> sorry
Dec 04 15:59:42 <CM> mickeyl: bcc:ed you on my reply
Dec 04 15:59:50 * CM is off to a party
Dec 04 16:00:16 <mickeyl> have fun
Dec 04 16:00:16 <mickeyl> thanks
Dec 04 16:04:16 <ScaredyCat> pfft
Dec 04 16:13:17 <ScaredyCat> ~blame XorA 
Dec 04 16:13:18 * apt blames XorA (and Canada) for all the evil in the world
Dec 04 16:17:13 <buz> ~blame Acer for shipping a beeping screen
Dec 04 16:17:14 * apt blames romu1us and perhaps Acer for shipping a beeping screen and the end of the world as we know it
Dec 04 16:38:17 * hhf423 has a new stereo bt headset. great thing.
Dec 04 16:39:42 <anrp> i need to get an a2dp receiver
Dec 04 16:39:49 <anrp> preferably with 3.5mm jack .. know of any/
Dec 04 16:40:59 <hhf423> err, you want a bt a2dp receiver mit 3,5 jack?
Dec 04 16:41:30 <anrp> yeah, for use with normal headphones and a remote player
Dec 04 16:41:36 <anrp> i've been looking on and off ..
Dec 04 16:41:49 <anrp> sony does have some good looking stuff
Dec 04 16:41:51 <anrp> sadly :/
Dec 04 16:42:16 <hhf423> :-)
Dec 04 16:42:58 <hhf423> hmm, turn on of GPS does not work with current OM snapshot?
Dec 04 16:43:13 <hhf423> and, of course, it does not ask for PIN...
Dec 04 16:47:56 <hhf423> ah then pain. This could be such a nice phone.
Dec 04 16:48:54 <anrp> :/
Dec 04 16:55:50 * XorA spots reports of n810 sales in .eu
Dec 04 16:56:04 <hhf423> ah, my test SIM provider goes to 9.9ct/min
Dec 04 16:56:29 <hhf423> XorA: so whats the price?
Dec 04 16:56:46 <XorA> £339
Dec 04 16:57:00 <hhf423> ah, 400 EUR
Dec 04 16:57:25 <XorA> and someone said its on nokia.dk for sale, but I cant read that site
Dec 04 16:57:32 <hhf423> wow, n800 is down to 215 EUR
Dec 04 16:57:47 <XorA> http://www.nokia.dk/phones/n810/prices.php
Dec 04 16:57:56 <hhf423> ah, well my n770 will last some time
Dec 04 16:58:00 <XorA> found it finally
Dec 04 16:58:50 <hhf423> .dk not on EUR yet=?
Dec 04 16:59:53 <XorA> damn, last weekend I was on Tottenham Court road, I could have got a n810 there :-)
Dec 04 17:00:28 <hhf423> it has GPS, no?
Dec 04 17:01:20 * anrp eyes the pound
Dec 04 17:06:05 <hhf423> whats the command line command to start gps?
Dec 04 17:32:06 <emdete> hhf423_: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Manually_using_GPS
Dec 04 17:35:21 <Hicks> Hello again people :)
Dec 04 17:35:43 <Hicks> Is there anyone here who knows a bit about bitmaps maps, and how to get some detailed maps for my country? 
Dec 04 17:36:29 <Hicks> And also who can point me to the algorythm to be able to plot my position on a bitmap map based on my GPS coords and the map's projection type?
Dec 04 17:36:41 <torpor> howdy
Dec 04 17:36:48 <Hicks> howdy?
Dec 04 17:38:35 <Stephmw> Hicks: you can likely create a suitable bitmap map using geotools
Dec 04 17:38:45 <Stephmw> Hicks: as for plotting your location on such a map...
Dec 04 17:38:45 <Hicks> geotools?
Dec 04 17:38:50 <Stephmw> Hicks: google :)
Dec 04 17:38:53 <Hicks> i didnt know this thanks
Dec 04 17:38:57 <Hicks> yes sure
Dec 04 17:39:17 <Hicks> wow very nice
Dec 04 17:39:31 <Hicks> So you used this already with success?
Dec 04 17:39:58 <Stephmw> I've used it in the past, nothing embedded though
Dec 04 17:40:37 <Hicks> well i don't want to embed the tool, just to generate a map which on which i can find the transformation algorythm from GPS to cartesian XY
Dec 04 17:40:52 <Hicks> i have googled a lot about this already, and i only got very vague explainations =/
Dec 04 17:45:23 <SpeedEvil> what do you mean by 'gps'?
Dec 04 17:45:33 <Hicks> Longitute and Latitude
Dec 04 17:46:02 <SpeedEvil> I'd suggest you wander over to irc.oftc.net, and ask on #osm
Dec 04 17:46:17 <Hicks> i would probably have to get my map's 4 courners long / lat, it's center also, and depending on the map's projection
Dec 04 17:46:23 <Hicks> open street map?
Dec 04 17:46:28 <SpeedEvil> there are some geoprojection knowledgable people there, that can point you at a FAQ
Dec 04 17:46:30 <SpeedEvil> yes
Dec 04 17:46:30 <Hicks> okay thanks :)
Dec 04 17:46:36 <Hicks> thanks a lot
Dec 04 17:46:55 <Hicks> and about getting nice bitmaps of an area? We don't want vector graphisms
Dec 04 17:47:21 <SpeedEvil> Hicks: you can load google tiles legally if you don't cache them.
Dec 04 17:47:28 <SpeedEvil> it breaks the AUP if you store them
Dec 04 17:47:36 <SpeedEvil> you can use OSM tiles
Dec 04 17:47:46 <SpeedEvil> but, they are of varying quality at the moment
Dec 04 17:47:49 <Hicks> it is for offline purpose, so it has to be cached =/
Dec 04 17:47:57 <Hicks> and OSM tiles are ugly :D
Dec 04 17:48:01 <SpeedEvil> france?
Dec 04 17:48:18 <SpeedEvil> some bits of france are quite well mapped
Dec 04 17:48:22 <Hicks> yes
Dec 04 17:48:32 <Hicks> really
Dec 04 17:48:45 <Hicks> i will have a look again then ;)
Dec 04 17:48:51 <Hicks> Thank you for pointing me those directions
Dec 04 17:49:27 <SpeedEvil> there are also a couple of alternative renderers from the OSM data
Dec 04 17:49:44 <Hicks> hmm ok
Dec 04 17:50:13 <Hicks> i'll have a look at it now
Dec 04 17:50:28 <Hicks> thanks for the advices, talk again soon ;)
Dec 04 17:58:02 <CIA-14> 03laforge * r3564 10/trunk/src/target/u-boot/patches/ (25 files): sync patches with u-boot mainline '8d4f040a3c15036a6ea25a9c39e7d89fefa8440d' (compiles but untested)
Dec 04 17:58:37 <dread> what happend to buildhost.openmoko.org? cannot connect :(
Dec 04 18:07:12 <[9x|moko]> Linux fic-gta01 2.6.22.5-moko11 #1 PREEMPT Fri Nov 30 11:16:19 GMT 2007 armv4tl unknown
Dec 04 18:07:21 <[9x|moko]> ;]
Dec 04 18:23:19 <abraxa__> CM: Yeah, I started writing the new wiki articles
Dec 04 18:23:47 <abraxa__> But yeah, the issue here is the same as with current media player development: university has priority ;)
Dec 04 18:44:56 <NineX>  buildhost.openmoko.org
Dec 04 18:44:59 <NineX> is down?
Dec 04 18:46:02 <hhf423_> amazing how the Neo gps thinks I am wandering around when I am stating still
Dec 04 18:46:56 <hhf423_> oh, laforge still coding for the neo?
Dec 04 18:47:27 <hhf423_> then again, why not?
Dec 04 18:49:02 <ewon> hhf423_: all gpsen do that to a degree, unless they're configured to ignore position changes beneath a certain speed
Dec 04 18:50:03 * anrp likes warping
Dec 04 18:50:23 <anrp> its quite a breathtaking feeling, instantly moving 10m
Dec 04 18:50:27 <hhf423_> in any case with the average function it is pretty decent
Dec 04 18:50:31 <buz> the operative word being a certain degree
Dec 04 18:50:32 <hhf423_> anrp :-)
Dec 04 18:50:52 <buz> (and whether the error terms are biased, which is even more important)
Dec 04 18:51:00 * hhf423_ is jumping around >10m without moving
Dec 04 18:51:35 <SpeedEvil> hhf423_: indoors?
Dec 04 18:51:40 * hhf423_ is not even staing within a 20m radius
Dec 04 18:51:51 <hhf423_> SpeedEvil: yes, indoors
Dec 04 18:52:10 <SpeedEvil> the accuracy drops indoors
Dec 04 18:52:18 <hhf423_> sure does
Dec 04 18:52:26 <morricone> anrp, maybe you're experiencing quantum effects
Dec 04 18:52:53 <anrp> macroscopic quantum tunneling
Dec 04 18:52:56 <anrp> quick, call someone!
Dec 04 18:55:02 <anrp> its kind of strange
Dec 04 18:55:18 <anrp> you have to pay more to get anything done, because if you don't you don't stay in one place long enough to get anything done
Dec 04 18:55:25 <anrp> so you have to pay $10k+ just to work
Dec 04 18:55:44 <anrp> getting a GPS+INS
Dec 04 18:56:29 <anrp> on the other hand, vaults and the like present no problem
Dec 04 18:56:38 <anrp> so its not hard to be rich with an inaccurate gps
Dec 04 18:57:38 <anrp> first generation civilian receivers command a large premium on the black market
Dec 04 18:57:59 <anrp> since you could warp 50m with them
Dec 04 19:08:28 <ewon> anrp: define warping?
Dec 04 19:08:50 <ewon> or are you being sarcastic :)
Dec 04 19:09:09 <ajbrun> warping: faster than light travel
Dec 04 19:09:11 <ajbrun> :D
Dec 04 19:09:30 <anrp> perhaps :o
Dec 04 19:09:33 * anrp secret
Dec 04 19:09:36 <ajbrun> "take us to warp Mr Sulu"
Dec 04 19:10:40 <ajbrun> what did pickard say to the sewing machine mechanic?
Dec 04 19:10:45 <ajbrun> "make it sew"
Dec 04 19:10:52 * ajbrun hides
Dec 04 19:10:58 <anrp> you betta
Dec 04 19:11:02 <anrp> :S
Dec 04 19:11:02 <ajbrun> :p
Dec 04 19:13:29 <anrp> http://anrp.net/cjtk.jpg
Dec 04 19:13:32 <anrp> ;)
Dec 04 19:13:54 <ajbrun> lol
Dec 04 19:14:11 <ajbrun> love those motivational posters
Dec 04 19:14:49 <zash> anrp: haha
Dec 04 19:28:09 <nibbo> Have the GTA02 been further delayed?
Dec 04 19:28:27 <_diego_> yes
Dec 04 19:29:20 <_diego_> anrp, do you have at higher resolution?
Dec 04 19:29:36 <_diego_> cjtk.jpg i mean 
Dec 04 19:29:41 <nibbo> _diego_: Any new date?
Dec 04 19:31:26 <_diego_> nibbo, i suggesto to read here http://planet.openmoko.org/
Dec 04 19:32:27 <nibbo> _diego_: thanks! I am really looking forward to this open phone! Its a pity that it has to be delayed though :(
Dec 04 19:33:33 * hhf423_ yawns
Dec 04 19:41:20 <anrp> i don't :/
Dec 04 19:41:21 <anrp> sadly
Dec 04 19:42:54 <Risto> Hi, is there anbody who can confirm that http://buildhost.openmoko.org/ is down?
Dec 04 19:43:12 <anrp> there is anecdotal evidence that yes, that is indeed the case
Dec 04 19:43:23 <anrp> but no confirmation
Dec 04 19:43:28 <zash> curl: (7) couldn't connect to host
Dec 04 19:43:45 <Risto> thanx :-)
Dec 04 19:44:33 <zash> I can confirm that i cant connect
Dec 04 19:45:57 <zash> nmap says its up
Dec 04 19:46:00 <zash> butno http
Dec 04 20:15:45 <SpeedEvil> bookmarks is trivial - you can copy the bookmarks file 
Dec 04 20:15:48 <SpeedEvil> oops
Dec 04 20:16:32 * anrp copies SpeedEvil's bookmarks file
Dec 04 21:01:15 <[9x|moko]> re
Dec 04 21:02:03 <CVirus> so when is February ?
Dec 04 21:02:04 <CVirus> :-p
Dec 04 21:02:35 <[9x|moko]> /bin/sh: uame: not found
Dec 04 21:02:42 <[9x|moko]> via gprs
Dec 04 21:02:56 <[9x|moko]> oops
Dec 04 21:03:21 <[9x|moko]> not  this widow
Dec 04 21:06:27 <CVirus> Does anybody have any idea who is incharge instead of Welte ?
Dec 04 21:07:52 <josch> CVirus, atm nobody
Dec 04 21:08:08 <CVirus> josch: so when is FIC employing someone ?
Dec 04 21:09:00 <balrog-kun> CVirus: various people are in charge of different pars
Dec 04 21:09:03 <balrog-kun> parts
Dec 04 21:09:25 <balrog-kun> and FIC already has a couple of new people recently afaik
Dec 04 21:09:27 <CVirus> balrog-kun: so Welte's work was handed to others ?
Dec 04 21:09:45 <CVirus> balrog-kun: any names ?
Dec 04 21:09:48 <balrog-kun> CVirus: partially, yes
Dec 04 21:10:53 <CVirus> I can't wait any longer :-(
Dec 04 21:11:07 <balrog-kun> CVirus: for example gsmd was handed to other already like 4 months ago
Dec 04 21:11:21 <OJW> #join #bookmooch
Dec 04 21:11:23 <balrog-kun> i think it was already known internally at that time that laf0rge was leaving
Dec 04 21:11:33 <CVirus> I see
Dec 04 21:12:02 <CVirus> balrog-kun: did he state any reasons for leaving ?
Dec 04 21:13:10 <balrog-kun> CVirus: yes, on his blog, see planet.o.o
Dec 04 21:13:33 <balrog-kun> CVirus: he also mentioned here in this channel that he has doubts abut the success of this projects...
Dec 04 21:13:41 <CVirus> IIRC he didn't state any ... lemme check again
Dec 04 21:30:59 <Tek_Grmln> hello, anyone around willing to field some newbie questions?
Dec 04 21:32:22 <Tek_Grmln> specifically some questions regarding what build/image I should be using
Dec 04 21:32:35 <torpor> just ask 'em 
Dec 04 21:33:10 <Tek_Grmln> first whats the difference between the builds and images? they seem like the same thing to me
Dec 04 21:33:23 <torpor> what builds?
Dec 04 21:33:25 <torpor> what images?
Dec 04 21:33:30 <torpor> the build consists of a lot of things
Dec 04 21:33:38 <Tek_Grmln> just going through the get started wiki
Dec 04 21:33:42 <torpor> a build contains toolchains, libs, apps, and such.  all packaged into .ipk files.
Dec 04 21:34:05 <torpor> the toolchain includes local tools and apps for your build host - cross compiler, etc.
Dec 04 21:34:27 <torpor> the images you get are the final package of the build - all you need to run on your neo in a single image to be burned to flash
Dec 04 21:34:40 <Tek_Grmln> and snapshots
Dec 04 21:34:42 <torpor> but a 'build' is more than just an image.  the image is the final result of a lot of stuff that goes on during a build.
Dec 04 21:34:52 <Tek_Grmln> what are snapshots?
Dec 04 21:35:05 <torpor> snapshots are regularly released versions of a build, released as image files, so you can just burn them straight to your neo and try them out.
Dec 04 21:35:13 <torpor> snapshots change frequently as progress is made in the project.
Dec 04 21:35:33 <Tek_Grmln> thank you
Dec 04 21:35:44 <torpor> no problem
Dec 04 21:35:55 <torpor> if youre just starting out there are bound to be some confusing issues
Dec 04 21:36:03 <Tek_Grmln> now second question, the get start guide says I have to install the kernal and the rootfs
Dec 04 21:36:12 <torpor> yes you install that on your moko
Dec 04 21:36:18 <Tek_Grmln> I identify these by there extension
Dec 04 21:36:22 <torpor> the moko nand has a partition for the kernel and one for the filesystem (rootfs)
Dec 04 21:36:38 <Tek_Grmln> but there are several files in each snapshot with the same extension
Dec 04 21:36:53 <Tek_Grmln> which one do I use
Dec 04 21:37:06 <torpor> .jffs2 == rootfs (jffs is a filesystem type), uImage-neo1973-latest.bin == kernel image, uboot=gta01bv-latest.bin == boot loader.
Dec 04 21:37:14 <torpor> yeah, this is up to you of course.
Dec 04 21:37:21 <Tek_Grmln> how do I know
Dec 04 21:37:31 <torpor> most people who are publishing build image snapshots are a bit lazy and should clean up their release dirs so its not so confusing
Dec 04 21:37:33 <Tek_Grmln> lets say I choose the lates snapshot
Dec 04 21:37:56 <torpor> but the general rule is: get the latest uImage*bin file, and the latest *rootfs.jffs2 file .. 
Dec 04 21:37:57 <Tek_Grmln> http://buildhost.openmoko.org/snapshots/2007.11/images/neo1973/
Dec 04 21:38:10 <torpor> often-times these files are linked to a soft link like "uImage-neo1973-latest.bin" or something.. 
Dec 04 21:38:11 <[9x|moko]> hm 10hours on battery with gprs active
Dec 04 21:38:40 <edistar> [9x|moko]: with OM or with qtopia?
Dec 04 21:38:52 <[9x|moko]> 7om
Dec 04 21:39:39 <NineX> CTCP VERSION reply from [9x|moko]: irssi v0.8.10 - running on Linux armv4tl
Dec 04 21:39:40 <torpor> Tek_Grmln: for that site you should just go by the timestamps.  get the latest uImage*bin file, the latest *jffs2 file.  and unless you really, really need it, and really know why you need it, do *not* flash your uboot.
Dec 04 21:39:56 <Tek_Grmln> ain this directory there are two 38M files with the same jffs2 extension and same time
Dec 04 21:40:04 <torpor> [9x|moko]: thats impressive indeed.  first that you got gprs running, and second that you've got such battery life .. 
Dec 04 21:40:18 <Tek_Grmln> 3:50
Dec 04 21:40:39 <torpor> Tek_Grmln: they are probably the same file .. the reason there is a copy is because the stupid admin for that site did a 'cp', and the link got copied as well, rather than just set up .. 
Dec 04 21:40:49 <Tek_Grmln> ah
Dec 04 21:40:53 <Tek_Grmln> thanks again
Dec 04 21:40:56 <torpor> you have to allow for a little stupidity when there's such progress going on .. 
Dec 04 21:41:14 <torpor> [9x|moko]: did you get gprs running through the shell, or with settingsGUI? 
Dec 04 21:41:19 <Tek_Grmln> I especially have to allow for it when there is so much on my side
Dec 04 21:41:34 <torpor> i also have a gprs account i want to use - and in fact i'd love to be using gprs properly with my neo, so any tips on setting it up is appreciated...
Dec 04 21:41:39 <Tek_Grmln> I am reletivly new with linux so doing this phone thing is extra hard for me
Dec 04 21:42:01 <torpor> Tek_Grmln: well soldier on, soon enough you'll be calling yourself a pro and going off to work for a cellphone co (unless you already do. ;)
Dec 04 21:42:10 <Tek_Grmln> I do work for one
Dec 04 21:42:21 <Tek_Grmln> and they have already named me the pro
Dec 04 21:42:28 <torpor> is it A1 by any chance?
Dec 04 21:42:36 <Tek_Grmln> I have a lot of windows mobile experience
Dec 04 21:42:38 <Tek_Grmln> no no
Dec 04 21:43:00 <torpor> phew.  coz i'm interviewing for an openmoko based project at A1 (hopefully) soon.. ;)
Dec 04 21:43:24 <Tek_Grmln> my company is just doing a study for now on feasability of porting some of our stuff
Dec 04 21:43:42 <torpor> well then you have a lot of work to do then .. 
Dec 04 21:43:57 <Tek_Grmln> but I have a short timeline and the phone seems unready for real development
Dec 04 21:44:10 <torpor> oh, its definitely ready for real development.
Dec 04 21:44:16 <torpor> its you who are not quite ready yet.
Dec 04 21:44:20 <torpor> no offense
Dec 04 21:44:47 <Tek_Grmln> I beg to differ, it is ready for the phone to be developed but som many missing features is not good for a profesional development cycle
Dec 04 21:45:12 <torpor> i'm writing fresh apps for it consistently and without hassle .. well, okay, i did have to do a full rebuild from scratch over the weekend, but that went surprisingly smooth and my project builds just fine with the new toolchain and build config.  in fact my new project is surprisingly easy to build and run for the openmoko.
Dec 04 21:45:21 <Tek_Grmln> although i am definatly not ready also
Dec 04 21:45:32 <NineX> torpor: gprs by hand ;), battery life short backlight timeout + cpu scalling, but system is very unstable  i need to fic=x couple things
Dec 04 21:45:49 <Tek_Grmln> exactly m point companies dont like to pay developers there own money to do fresh builds over the weekend
Dec 04 21:45:50 <torpor> i think you are being hasty.  you're not in a position to determine this yet.  until you've finished your own build and set up and installed your own .ipks' i would not be so quick to judge.
Dec 04 21:46:40 <torpor> the fact is i don't know any pro embedded developer who doesn't maintain a build system concurrently with their main app development.
Dec 04 21:47:04 <Tek_Grmln> although I agree in many ways, my boss wont
Dec 04 21:47:07 <torpor> i can't see how you'd be doing things correctly if you do not do such things as run your own build server over the weekend to make fresh syslibs, toolchains, image, etc.
Dec 04 21:47:09 <Tek_Grmln> he pays for projects
Dec 04 21:47:16 <Tek_Grmln> and my company is not unique
Dec 04 21:47:22 <torpor> you're not talking to your boss properly then.  
Dec 04 21:47:36 <Tek_Grmln> not my job to sell a system
Dec 04 21:47:44 <Tek_Grmln> I just write the code they tell me
Dec 04 21:47:49 <torpor> ah, but it is.
Dec 04 21:47:53 <Tek_Grmln> I dont care who buys it or for what system
Dec 04 21:48:08 <torpor> anyway, the point is this: get your build done, get a working phone in your hand, and get on with writing some code for it.
Dec 04 21:48:30 <Tek_Grmln> not to whine or anything, for me it is fun to play with
Dec 04 21:48:37 <torpor> if you have the "i don't wanna be responsible" attitude, you won't get far with linux.
Dec 04 21:48:46 <[9x|moko]> ok i mustpart
Dec 04 21:49:45 <Tek_Grmln> I am not anti linux, or pro windows, I like the flexibility of having an interface to the AT channel which for me as a developer will help
Dec 04 21:49:54 <Tek_Grmln> windows doesnot give me this
Dec 04 21:50:05 <Tek_Grmln> just to bad it is a hard sell in a company
Dec 04 21:50:22 <torpor> windows gives you other headaches, but at least those headaches are wrapped up in a nice friendly sugary sweet gui.
Dec 04 21:50:33 <torpor> but i will never, ever, ever write another windows app for as long as i live.
Dec 04 21:50:46 <torpor> for me, its just wretched to write code for windows mobile.
Dec 04 21:50:47 <Tek_Grmln> I never get a gui or many api's so windows comes with a lot of headaches for me
Dec 04 21:51:20 <Tek_Grmln> My favorite is writing code for small micrcontrollers, but hey, you do what they pay you for
Dec 04 21:51:43 <Tek_Grmln> try using the ril functions in windows mobile if you want headaches
Dec 04 21:52:06 <torpor> well good luck.  feel free to ask further Q's if you have them.  and don't worry the fact that you get paid to ask me Q's I answer for free won't deter me from helping you .. ;)
Dec 04 21:52:18 <Tek_Grmln> third question
Dec 04 21:52:21 <torpor> yet.
Dec 04 21:52:36 <Tek_Grmln> what do I do with this modiles tgz file
Dec 04 21:52:44 <torpor> modiles?
Dec 04 21:52:51 <Tek_Grmln> modules
Dec 04 21:52:54 <torpor> ah, modules.
Dec 04 21:53:00 <torpor> well thats a bit of a thorny issue to be honest.
Dec 04 21:53:32 <torpor> you see linux is built in two parts: the kernel itself (uImage file) and the loadable modules for the kernel, which need to live on the filesystem somewhere - usually off /lib/modules/[version.of.the.kernel]
Dec 04 21:53:43 <Tek_Grmln> when I flashed the phone this morning it seemed to work (sorta) but a lot of commands are missing (eg. cu)
Dec 04 21:53:45 <torpor> but since the neo1973 has only 65megs of NAND the modules are not included in the jffs rootfs.
Dec 04 21:54:00 <torpor> so the idea is that you unpack whatever modules you want out of the .tgz file, and put them in place by hand.
Dec 04 21:54:03 <torpor> this is a pain in the ass.
Dec 04 21:54:08 <Tek_Grmln> could the modules be why som many commands are missing
Dec 04 21:54:26 <Tek_Grmln> how do I place them by hand
Dec 04 21:54:30 <torpor> for that reason i suggest you investigate a root-on-SD setup if you get serious with neo development, and just unpack the whole modules tarball to a fat filesystem.
Dec 04 21:55:12 <torpor> no, modules are not the same as commands.  if you don't have cu its because you haven't found and installed the relevant .ipk file contianing the bins you need.
Dec 04 21:55:49 <torpor> .ipk files are the 'end user applications' and most of the bins in the root filesystem are found in .ipk files which can be easily installed/deleted through the package manager (ipkg)
Dec 04 21:56:04 <Tek_Grmln> I cant install them because I don't have internet access on he phone
Dec 04 21:56:14 <Tek_Grmln> I need the commands to get it as far as I can tell
Dec 04 21:56:17 <Tek_Grmln> catch 22
Dec 04 21:56:19 <torpor> to put modules in place by hand, you have to unpack the tarball somewhere (your local linux machine) and then copy them over to your neo over the ssh link/usb-networking, once that is set up.
Dec 04 21:56:25 <Tek_Grmln> so I must be missing something
Dec 04 21:56:35 <torpor> yeah you are: usb-networking.
Dec 04 21:56:42 <Tek_Grmln> ssh works and I can copy files over
Dec 04 21:56:52 <torpor> then thats all you need.
Dec 04 21:57:01 <Tek_Grmln> I thought so too
Dec 04 21:57:21 <torpor> scp somefilemodule.o root@moko:/lib/modules/[whatever.the.version.of.your.kernel.is._i_suggest_you_check_it_out_by_hand_first.]
Dec 04 21:57:25 <Tek_Grmln> but how to I install (better where do I find) the ipkgs
Dec 04 21:57:47 <Tek_Grmln> I only care right now about the missing commands
Dec 04 21:58:07 <torpor> this is easy (and nice).  you see once you get usb-networking set up, and have some sort of network sharing going on between your host PC and your neo, you can just use the 'ipkg' program on the neo1973 itself to install new apps
Dec 04 21:58:22 <Tek_Grmln> but this does not work
Dec 04 21:58:27 <torpor> do you have network sharing going on so that your host PC is serving as an internet gateway for your neo?
Dec 04 21:58:33 <Tek_Grmln> because I cant seem to use the internet on the phone
Dec 04 21:58:44 <Tek_Grmln> I have tried
Dec 04 21:59:01 <torpor> there is a gotcha with the current images: you have to modify /etc/resolv.conf first of all, and make a nameserver entry with whatever your local nameserver ip address is .. 
Dec 04 21:59:04 <Tek_Grmln> but when I try and do the setup stuff on the neo I fail because I dont have a ln comman
Dec 04 21:59:09 <torpor> otherwise the neo can't do hostname resolution.
Dec 04 21:59:21 <torpor> 'ln command'?  what is that?
Dec 04 21:59:40 <Tek_Grmln> ln -s /var/run/resolv.conf /etc/resolv.conf
Dec 04 21:59:49 <torpor> no that is whack, do not do that.
Dec 04 21:59:54 <Tek_Grmln> is what it says in the usb networking section of the getting started
Dec 04 21:59:57 <torpor> instead just edit /etc/resolv.conf directly
Dec 04 21:59:57 <dread> Tek_Grmln: execute this on your host http://nopaste.unixfreunde.de/312
Dec 04 22:00:00 <torpor> yeah that is gay
Dec 04 22:00:02 <dread> to get dns working :)
Dec 04 22:00:05 <torpor> and i mean gay in a bad way
Dec 04 22:00:26 <torpor> dread: assuming he is using a linux machine for his host PC .. 
Dec 04 22:00:35 <dread> uhm...right, sorry
Dec 04 22:01:01 <torpor> it is far better for you to be in authoritative command over your /etc/resolv.conf file and manually edit it.
Dec 04 22:01:27 <torpor> okay you will get tired of doing this after you've reflashed your image for the 5th time, but it will be a good drill for you before you come up with some sexy trick to avoid having to do it ever again.
Dec 04 22:01:36 <torpor> (me, i boot from SD, so i don't have these problems any more..)
Dec 04 22:03:30 <Tek_Grmln> do I need to reconect or log out or anything
Dec 04 22:04:30 <Tek_Grmln> wait I think they may have worked
Dec 04 22:04:43 <dread> no, the resolv is used everytime you try to esablish an networkconnection
Dec 04 22:05:32 <Tek_Grmln> sweet
Dec 04 22:05:34 <Tek_Grmln> thanks
Dec 04 22:06:27 <Tek_Grmln> cu
Dec 04 22:06:44 <Tek_Grmln> now all I got to do is find the right packages
Dec 04 22:07:06 <torpor> so its working then?
Dec 04 22:07:54 <Tek_Grmln> well something is working when I ipkg update && ipkg upgrade
Dec 04 22:08:01 <Tek_Grmln> which is more than before
Dec 04 22:08:05 <Tek_Grmln> I get some erros
Dec 04 22:08:17 <Tek_Grmln> but only some
Dec 04 22:08:52 <Tek_Grmln> at least it is progress
Dec 04 22:10:49 <Tek_Grmln> it is strange to me that all the commands used in the getting started are not available in the official releases
Dec 04 22:10:59 <Tek_Grmln> but I am very glad for the help here
Dec 04 22:11:05 <Tek_Grmln> I would be lost without it
Dec 04 22:11:12 <Tek_Grmln> is there a good forum
Dec 04 22:11:23 <Tek_Grmln> so I dont waste ppls time here though
Dec 04 22:11:30 <CM> There's only here and the wiki
Dec 04 22:11:34 <CM> And the mailinglists
Dec 04 22:11:50 <torpor> what cmd isn't available, btw?
Dec 04 22:11:50 <Tek_Grmln> lame
Dec 04 22:12:01 <Tek_Grmln> cu for starts
Dec 04 22:12:05 <Tek_Grmln> also ln
Dec 04 22:12:12 <Tek_Grmln> and any editor beside vi
Dec 04 22:12:23 <Tek_Grmln> I think a lot oare missing
Dec 04 22:12:27 <CM> Tek_Grmln: Why would you need anything more than vi? :P
Dec 04 22:12:42 <Tek_Grmln> sorry but I am not a linux guy and that is hard to use
Dec 04 22:12:46 <CM> But yes, the basic rootfs isn't exactly optimized yet
Dec 04 22:12:58 <CM> There's a lot of things mising, and there's still crap there too
Dec 04 22:13:17 <CM> like the libvorbisencode libs and so on
Dec 04 22:13:30 <CM> I mean stuf that's rarely or never at all used
Dec 04 22:13:41 <Tek_Grmln> I can understand that, but then there should be a first time build that may not be the latest but can be used to walk through the getting started
Dec 04 22:13:54 <CM> *nod*
Dec 04 22:13:59 <Tek_Grmln> just for newbies
Dec 04 22:14:10 <abraxa_> Tek_Grmln: Time's the limiting factor :);
Dec 04 22:14:14 <CM> The learning curve is definitely too steep right now
Dec 04 22:14:19 <CM> abraxa_: Good evening :)
Dec 04 22:14:31 <abraxa_> Ahoy CM!
Dec 04 22:14:46 <Tek_Grmln> for me it is fun to do, but I know if I dont show results by the end of the week this project is done
Dec 04 22:15:26 <Tek_Grmln> the market is fierce, especially with android also on the horizon
Dec 04 22:15:46 <Tek_Grmln> companoes like mine are not willing to spend much money playing
Dec 04 22:15:48 <abraxa_> Tek_Grmln: What's your task at hand anyway?
Dec 04 22:16:06 <Tek_Grmln> unfortunatly my contract is military so I cant say much
Dec 04 22:16:29 <Tek_Grmln> but I am ivestiguating making software we have for symbian and window mobile work on the neo
Dec 04 22:16:37 <torpor> ait, 'ln' isnt there?
Dec 04 22:16:43 <Tek_Grmln> nope
Dec 04 22:17:01 <torpor> you double sure?
Dec 04 22:17:05 <Tek_Grmln> ln
Dec 04 22:17:22 <torpor> what does which ln say?
Dec 04 22:18:08 <abraxa_> Tek_Grmln: Just to make sure - we're talking about the lower-case version of LN, right? :
Dec 04 22:18:09 <abraxa_> :)
Dec 04 22:18:16 <Tek_Grmln> oops sorry maybe it is
Dec 04 22:18:32 <Tek_Grmln> I dont know if it just apeard or if I screwed up before
Dec 04 22:18:33 <torpor> root@fic-gta01:~$ which ln
Dec 04 22:18:33 <torpor> /bin/ln
Dec 04 22:18:33 <torpor> root@fic-gta01:~$ ls -l /bin/ln 
Dec 04 22:18:33 <torpor> lrwxrwxrwx    1 root     root            7 Nov 28 21:28 /bin/ln -> busybox
Dec 04 22:18:34 <torpor> root@fic-gta01:~$ 
Dec 04 22:18:44 <torpor> bloody windows people, honestly!
Dec 04 22:18:53 <torpor> wait: you're working on a military contract?  in the US?
Dec 04 22:18:59 <Tek_Grmln> nope germany
Dec 04 22:19:37 <Tek_Grmln> but not weapons or anything crazy
Dec 04 22:19:49 <Tek_Grmln> mostly just goverment money wasting
Dec 04 22:19:54 <torpor> well whatever.
Dec 04 22:20:11 <Tek_Grmln> just means I cant say what anything does
Dec 04 22:20:12 <torpor> please be careful with your conclusions.
Dec 04 22:20:37 <Tek_Grmln> but cu is definatly missing
Dec 04 22:21:08 <ckuethe> probably .mil wants what all of us do. a phone that doesn't suck
Dec 04 22:21:17 <abraxa_> What do you need cu for, Tek_Grmln?
Dec 04 22:21:23 <Tek_Grmln> actually I am not a windows guy. I am an embedded systems guy
Dec 04 22:21:36 <ckuethe> i know some folks at various national labs and they all sigh because they have fun stories they can't tell.
Dec 04 22:21:40 <Tek_Grmln> acces to the at commands
Dec 04 22:21:44 <torpor> Tek_Grmln: not here it isn't
Dec 04 22:21:44 <torpor> root@fic-gta01:~$ which cu
Dec 04 22:21:44 <torpor> /usr/bin/cu
Dec 04 22:21:44 <torpor> root@fic-gta01:~$ ls -alF /usr/bin/cu
Dec 04 22:21:44 <torpor> -r-sr-xr-x    1 root     root       116876 Sep  7 22:01 /usr/bin/cu*
Dec 04 22:22:04 <ckuethe> like being at google i suppose. "how about a nice mug of STFU."
Dec 04 22:22:47 <torpor> Tek_Grmln: ipkg install minicom
Dec 04 22:22:53 <torpor> if you can't find /usr/bin/cu that is
Dec 04 22:23:55 <Tek_Grmln> minfind
Dec 04 22:23:58 <I-MOD> screen can also do serial console
Dec 04 22:24:01 <Tek_Grmln> oops sorry
Dec 04 22:24:20 <I-MOD> if you happen to have screen :)
Dec 04 22:25:16 <torpor> screen should be there too, just like cu
Dec 04 22:25:16 <Tek_Grmln> root@fic-gta01:/bin$ ls -alF /usr/bin/cu
Dec 04 22:25:17 <Tek_Grmln> ls: /usr/bin/cu: No such file or directory
Dec 04 22:25:55 <Tek_Grmln> whatever screen is it is there
Dec 04 22:26:06 <Tek_Grmln>  
Dec 04 22:26:09 <CoreDump> screen is da bomb
Dec 04 22:26:29 <torpor> screen rocks.
Dec 04 22:26:38 <CoreDump> one of the most useful programs ever IMO
Dec 04 22:27:00 <torpor> i don't make a day without screen love
Dec 04 22:28:27 <Tek_Grmln> how do I igure out how to use it
Dec 04 22:28:39 <torpor> google: screen howto
Dec 04 22:29:52 <Tek_Grmln> hmmm, this looks like opening up another big pot of trouble
Dec 04 22:30:10 <SpeedEvil> basic operation is trivial
Dec 04 22:30:16 <SpeedEvil> ssh/telnet/... somewhere
Dec 04 22:30:18 <SpeedEvil> run screen
Dec 04 22:30:31 <Tek_Grmln> and this helps me use at commands how
Dec 04 22:30:32 <SpeedEvil> ctrl-ac = create new screen
Dec 04 22:30:42 <SpeedEvil> strl-a-space = next window
Dec 04 22:30:58 <SpeedEvil> then if you get disconnected, simply ssh back and run screen -r to reconnect
Dec 04 22:31:18 <Tek_Grmln> screen
Dec 04 22:31:19 <torpor> Tek_Grmln: know what /dev is for?
Dec 04 22:31:30 <Tek_Grmln> not really
Dec 04 22:32:53 <torpor> just install minicom then.
Dec 04 22:33:08 <torpor> screen will seem too stupid to you and you'll end up making another hasty conclusion
Dec 04 22:33:38 <Tek_Grmln> I agree, I think minicom makes more sense for now
Dec 04 22:33:58 <Tek_Grmln> sorry guys, but hasty conclusions are the only ones people pay for
Dec 04 22:35:57 <NineX> NOTE: Running task 1528 of 5065 // damn this will take more than 2 days
Dec 04 22:36:43 <torpor> NineX: my build took 4 days in total.
Dec 04 22:37:04 <NineX> torpor: on what hardware
Dec 04 22:37:07 <torpor> Tek_Grmln: people pay for good conclusions.  it'd be helpful if you stop using payroll as a justification for stupidity.
Dec 04 22:37:24 <Tek_Grmln> maybe, but I dont decide the payrole
Dec 04 22:37:34 <Tek_Grmln> stupid people do
Dec 04 22:37:37 <torpor> NineX: macbook pro (dual core 2.5ghz) running parallels: ubuntustudio, 1 gig of RAM in the session.
Dec 04 22:37:42 <Tek_Grmln> you would be wise to remember that
Dec 04 22:37:58 <torpor> Tek_Grmln: well we don't have anything to do with your payroll, so please leave it out of the picture.  unless you wish to change that, of course. ;)
Dec 04 22:38:13 <NineX> torpor: my buildhost: Single core athlon 64 3200+ 2 Gigs RAM / running on gentoo
Dec 04 22:38:22 <torpor> should be done in a day or two then
Dec 04 22:38:28 <Tek_Grmln> it is the same everywhere I am afraid
Dec 04 22:38:47 <Tek_Grmln> remeber it is the art and socially degree people in those positions
Dec 04 22:38:49 <torpor> every time i do a build i keep meaning to keep a time output so i can graph it and accurately predict completion 'next time', but i forgot this time too 
Dec 04 22:39:57 <torpor> Tek_Grmln: its not the same everywhere i've been.  for sure, there are smart people paying bills in some parts of the world.  perhaps its just unfortunate for you that you're in that position, but whatever.  this is a technical help channel.  we are helping you.  we don't care who pays your bills.  the only thing that matters here is forward progress on the openmoko project.
Dec 04 22:40:02 <Tek_Grmln> I have been working in the business for 10 years, in five countries, nothing changes
Dec 04 22:40:24 <NineX> there is a possibility to turnoff GSM and gps before system shutdown to i will no need to remove battery ?
Dec 04 22:40:31 <torpor> i've been working for 30 years, 7 countries, and indeed: there is tons of change.
Dec 04 22:40:46 <Tek_Grmln> I wish I saw it
Dec 04 22:40:47 <torpor> change is the only constant in the computer business.
Dec 04 22:40:58 <Tek_Grmln> I mean in the way management thinks
Dec 04 22:41:13 <torpor> me too
Dec 04 22:41:17 <Tek_Grmln> of course I dont work in the computer business, I work in emebedded systems
Dec 04 22:41:45 <Tek_Grmln> and am new to developing SW on such advanced OS's
Dec 04 22:41:58 <Tek_Grmln> mostly I am a microntroller guy
Dec 04 22:42:03 <SpeedEvil> The neo isn't an embedded device.
Dec 04 22:42:08 <Tek_Grmln> with a strong HW background
Dec 04 22:42:17 <SpeedEvil> It's a slow desktop that people are trying to convince it that it's a phone.
Dec 04 22:42:20 <Tek_Grmln> uthe lines blurr
Dec 04 22:42:22 <NineX> torpor: do you know answer for my question???/
Dec 04 22:42:23 <ewon> heh
Dec 04 22:42:26 <NineX> anylone: ^^
Dec 04 22:42:32 <ewon> has anyone tried distccing the moko build?
Dec 04 22:42:49 <torpor> i also do embedded: mostly ARM these days, but MIPS in the 90's, 68k in the 80's.  just got a hot new coldfire board this week too
Dec 04 22:42:53 <torpor> NineX: nope.
Dec 04 22:42:54 <SpeedEvil> If you think of it as a P100 desktop software-wise, it's not that far off. It's very far from your typical embedded device.
Dec 04 22:43:17 <Tek_Grmln> but I am not trying to be combative torpor, I guess I am just in a cup is half empty mood
Dec 04 22:43:17 <NineX> torpor: so gta01 will never can be used like normal phone
Dec 04 22:43:24 <torpor> SpeedEvil: embedded is a blurred word these days
Dec 04 22:43:38 <SpeedEvil> torpor: yeah - it's not the 'traditional' model.
Dec 04 22:44:05 <torpor> Tek_Grmln: i understand, i'm just trying to help you by removing the non-productive portion of your justification for whats going on .. please stay positive.  you can actually write apps for openmoko within the next 24 hours if you do what you're supposed to instead of complaining about what you don't know yet.
Dec 04 22:44:20 <Tek_Grmln> for me it is good, to do new things, just sucks so many projects go down the tubes because no one wants to pay to do the ground work
Dec 04 22:44:22 <torpor> NineX: no, i just don't know the answer to your question.  i use my neo for a normal phone right now.
Dec 04 22:45:15 <Tek_Grmln> I used to work for BenQ, the whole company whent down the tubes because of lack of vision
Dec 04 22:45:21 <NineX> torpor: i will use neo as normal phone when standby time on battery will be about ~96h
Dec 04 22:45:29 <torpor> Tek_Grmln: all the ground work is done wth openmoko.  if you push through and get the basics done yourself, you will see that.
Dec 04 22:45:42 <SpeedEvil> NineX: it can in principle be so - it's just going to take a while
Dec 04 22:46:27 <torpor> Tek_Grmln: if you want to just move into app development stages for the neo, you would be well advised to set up yourself a linux box for native development locally, and then consider the neo a port target for your build server.
Dec 04 22:47:03 <torpor> i'm writing an app right now which uses gtk and cairo, and it runs really very nicely on both linux native (x86) and the neo (linux arm) without *any* hassle whatsoever
Dec 04 22:47:08 <Tek_Grmln> I have already come to that conclusion torpor, but they want to see a proof of concept running on the phone
Dec 04 22:47:11 <torpor> you can also use python to achieve the same effect, quite easily.
Dec 04 22:47:27 <SpeedEvil> Tek_Grmln: export the display of any X app to the phone
Dec 04 22:47:31 <SpeedEvil> and it pretty much works
Dec 04 22:47:36 <torpor> Tek_Grmln: so you need to finish your build and get the basic apps installed and start writing some code.
Dec 04 22:48:00 <SpeedEvil> without any compilation at all, and it wil run on the actual phone if you setup the proper toolchain and have enough RAM/ROM/CPU
Dec 04 22:48:02 <Tek_Grmln> actually for my proof of concpet all I need is at commands for now
Dec 04 22:48:08 <Tek_Grmln> if I get that I am set
Dec 04 22:48:24 <Tek_Grmln> the rest would be a breeze
Dec 04 22:48:28 <torpor> then get minicom built and set it up to access the gsm entry in /dev (whatever that is, don't ask me.. ;)
Dec 04 22:48:35 <SpeedEvil> what do you want to do with the AT commands?
Dec 04 22:48:46 <Tek_Grmln> that I cant say I am afraid
Dec 04 22:48:51 <SpeedEvil> Roughly
Dec 04 22:48:52 <ckuethe> control.
Dec 04 22:48:58 <Tek_Grmln> phone stuff
Dec 04 22:49:08 <torpor> no worries then
Dec 04 22:49:12 <torpor> get minicom going
Dec 04 22:49:13 <Tek_Grmln> once I have an at channel the rest is history
Dec 04 22:49:27 <ckuethe> Tek_Grmln: and gsmd's passthrough mode isn't good enough?
Dec 04 22:49:39 <torpor> maybe he doesn't know about that yet
Dec 04 22:49:48 <Tek_Grmln> ckluethe: sorry I dont even know what that is
Dec 04 22:50:25 <Tek_Grmln> but given what I want is in the getting started portion of the wiki I figured I should be able to do this 
Dec 04 22:50:37 <ckuethe> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Gsmd#libgsmd-tool
Dec 04 22:50:40 <Tek_Grmln> I am on my second day and it is midnight here
Dec 04 22:50:50 <ckuethe> "The atcmd mode is a passthrough-mode.  Passthrough means that it accepts GSM 07.07 commands, passes them through the daemon to the phone, and returns you the response.  this is very useful for debugging."
Dec 04 22:51:06 <ckuethe> not trying to flame you then ... just trying to be helpful.
Dec 04 22:51:19 <Tek_Grmln> ckuethe: I know
Dec 04 22:51:22 <ckuethe> that may or may not be low-level enough...
Dec 04 22:51:29 <Tek_Grmln> and I am not worried about being flamed
Dec 04 22:51:59 <Tek_Grmln> as long as it gets the job done, a little flaming is fine
Dec 04 22:52:24 <Tek_Grmln> but I will stick to at cause I know exactly where to go from there
Dec 04 22:52:40 <torpor> you can use libgsmtool to send AT commands.
Dec 04 22:52:56 <Tek_Grmln> I can implement my proof of concept stage one as a script then
Dec 04 22:53:20 <Tek_Grmln> too bad no wifi or camera or gps though
Dec 04 22:53:31 <Tek_Grmln> means stage one is as far as it goes for now
Dec 04 22:53:37 <torpor> that'll come in the next hardware revision ..
Dec 04 22:54:02 <abraxa_> Tek_Grmln: No GPS?
Dec 04 22:54:05 <ckuethe> gps works now.
Dec 04 22:54:12 <torpor> you might wanna pay attention to http://scap.linuxtogo.org/ and make note of the model #'s that openmoko is running on .. 
Dec 04 22:54:12 <ckuethe> so i hear at least
Dec 04 22:54:22 <torpor> ckuethe: works great for me here
Dec 04 22:54:34 <Tek_Grmln> I have heard this and I have heard no, for now it is not a problem for me
Dec 04 22:54:46 <ckuethe> haven't tried.... i'm getting screwed by rogers 850MHz service.
Dec 04 22:55:30 <torpor> btw, i did the bling-it-up port thats noted here:
Dec 04 22:55:31 <torpor> http://scap.linuxtogo.org/index.php?page=4
Dec 04 22:55:55 <SpeedEvil> http://www.mauve.plus.com/gsmlog
Dec 04 22:56:21 <SpeedEvil> A trivial (on-phone) script to do GSM status logging
Dec 04 22:56:41 <SpeedEvil> using awk
Dec 04 22:56:53 <torpor> thats pretty nice.
Dec 04 22:56:59 <torpor> got a python version?
Dec 04 22:57:01 <torpor> ;)
Dec 04 22:57:03 <SpeedEvil> no.
Dec 04 23:00:56 <Tek_Grmln> sorry torpor, but I cant figure out how to get the minicom
Dec 04 23:01:03 <Tek_Grmln> where do I get it form
Dec 04 23:01:05 <Tek_Grmln> form
Dec 04 23:01:08 <torpor> ipkg install minicom
Dec 04 23:01:08 <Tek_Grmln> from
Dec 04 23:01:52 <torpor> if you cna't install minicom then check out SpeedEvil's script and work from there .. 
Dec 04 23:02:21 <Tek_Grmln> ipkg install minicom
Dec 04 23:02:32 <Tek_Grmln> Cannot find package minicom
Dec 04 23:03:05 <torpor> maybe you need to put scaredycat.conf in /etc/ipkg/ 
Dec 04 23:03:33 <SpeedEvil> The script is a script to log output of the engineering mode that gives details of all cells in range at 1s intervals
Dec 04 23:04:35 <Tek_Grmln> well I am done for tonight
Dec 04 23:04:38 <dread> Tek_Grmln: or try to download it by hand from http://buildhost.automated.it/OM2007.2/packages/armv4t/minicom_2.1-r0_armv4t.ipk
Dec 04 23:04:57 <torpor> Tek_Grmln: ipkg install  http://buildhost.automated.it/OM2007.2/packages/armv4t/minicom_2.1-r0_armv4t.ipk
Dec 04 23:05:07 <torpor> you can give ipkg a url for reference..
Dec 04 23:05:08 <Tek_Grmln> tomorrow I will put a new snapshot and try again
Dec 04 23:05:23 <torpor> good luck!
Dec 04 23:05:28 <torpor> i'm also off for the night
Dec 04 23:05:30 <torpor> later
Dec 04 23:05:42 <Tek_Grmln> thanks for all the help
Dec 04 23:05:48 <torpor> you're welcome
Dec 04 23:05:53 <torpor> stay positive
Dec 04 23:06:00 <torpor> lets see you rock the demo .. ;)
Dec 04 23:06:23 <CM> :)
Dec 04 23:06:23 <Tek_Grmln> first one more shot at installing that package though
Dec 04 23:14:27 <balrog-kun> yay for LaF0rge
Dec 04 23:14:52 * balrog-kun wanted to reopen all the bugs closed for no reason recently but was afraid of causing some conflicts
Dec 04 23:15:35 <balrog-kun> it was quite insane
Dec 04 23:22:54 <zash> hm
Dec 04 23:23:16 <zash> why does om in qemu say connected to gsm network+
Dec 04 23:23:39 <ewon> hax
Dec 04 23:24:07 <zash> omfghaxxorbbq
Dec 04 23:32:33 <balrog-kun> zash: because it connected to (virtual) gsm network
Dec 04 23:32:39 <balrog-kun> qemu emulates one
Dec 04 23:34:18 <balrog-kun> if you attach phonesim, then there are even several operators to choose from and some numbers which you can dial and they will answer
Dec 05 00:08:41 <RoboPhred> urg, got that pulseaudio assert failure again
Dec 05 01:42:08 <CIA-14> 03andrew * r3565 10/trunk/src/host/qemu-neo1973/hw/ (neo1973.c s3c.h s3c2410.c s3c24xx_mmci.c sd.c): 
Dec 05 01:42:08 <CIA-14> Implement SDIO interrupts in S3C24xx MMCI.
Dec 05 01:42:08 <CIA-14> Move MMC/SD/SDIO slot setup to board code.
Dec 05 01:54:43 <CIA-14> 03andrew * r3566 10/trunk/src/host/qemu-neo1973/ (hw/boards.h hw/neo1973.c openmoko/env vl.c): High time we rename -M neo to -M gta01 and fix the descriptions. External scripts need updating accordingly.
Dec 05 02:05:15 <balrog-kun> ^^^^ (!)
Dec 05 02:06:49 <bobesponja> is GTA2 still coming this december?
Dec 05 02:07:36 <unknown_lamer> bobesponja: 2067
Dec 05 02:07:36 <balrog-kun> bobesponja: noly about 500 units not for sale afaik
Dec 05 02:08:02 <balrog-kun> and further slips possible, but they may have starting the production already, i'm not sure
Dec 05 02:08:41 <bobesponja> those 500 are final product or still test products?
Dec 05 02:09:33 <balrog-kun> depends on how they will be evaluted by the developers who get to use them i guess
Dec 05 02:10:32 <balrog-kun> although the processor in the final gta02 will be slightly updated from the one that's in these 500, from what i hear
Dec 05 02:10:57 <balrog-kun> bobesponja: and it's discutible if gta02 can be called a final product too
Dec 05 02:11:09 <bobesponja> ok thanks for the info
Dec 05 02:11:18 <bobesponja> do you work for FIC?
Dec 05 02:11:29 <balrog-kun> not directly
Dec 05 02:11:39 <bobesponja> indirectly?
Dec 05 02:11:41 <bobesponja> :)
Dec 05 02:11:59 <balrog-kun> indirectly yes, i get some requests and some money from FIC :)
Dec 05 02:17:16 <UbuNero> salv
Dec 05 02:17:44 <UbuNero> cerco un chan x Os mobile alternativi
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed Dec 05 02:59:56 2007