**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Dec 21 02:59:56 2007 Dec 21 06:23:10 hmm, sorta stupid question.. i'm interested in picking up the devkit, but seeing as how gta02 is in the works and isn't *that* far off, would it make sense just waiting? or will there be a cheapish upgrade option, or is that even known yet? :) Dec 21 06:25:13 I'm waiting for the next release, myself Dec 21 06:25:32 better hardware and supposedly "usable" system Dec 21 06:25:45 hmm Dec 21 06:25:56 is there a detailed listing of whats different between the two? Dec 21 06:26:03 The wifi did it for me. ;) Dec 21 06:26:21 hehe Dec 21 06:26:23 hrm. Dec 21 06:26:28 decisions decisions. Dec 21 06:26:32 I'm also hoping they'll release a 800/1800/1900 version of the gsm Dec 21 06:26:44 i don't want to blow $450 now, just to spend another $300 in 4 months :/ Dec 21 06:26:49 yup Dec 21 06:26:49 yeah. Dec 21 06:26:58 does the current rev work in the US ok? Dec 21 06:27:09 wasn't sure from the community preview page... Dec 21 06:27:36 From my understanding Dec 21 06:27:45 k Dec 21 06:27:50 it doesn't always Dec 21 06:28:06 * nullpuppy nods Dec 21 06:28:08 hrm. Dec 21 06:28:12 well, crap. ;) Dec 21 06:28:32 * nullpuppy wants to replace his razr, but wants something decent and hackable Dec 21 06:28:49 If my understanding is right, US/Canada uses 850/1900 Dec 21 06:28:58 Ah, finally. Dec 21 06:29:35 lol Dec 21 06:29:38 are you registered? Dec 21 06:29:44 (with freenode) Dec 21 06:29:51 yes Dec 21 06:30:03 k.. are you familiar with /msg nickserv ghost? :) Dec 21 06:30:11 don't have to wait for timeouts... Dec 21 06:30:13 ...right... Dec 21 06:30:15 :$ Dec 21 06:30:19 forgot that one Dec 21 06:30:20 :) Dec 21 06:31:43 Yeah, I was hoping to pick up an 02 around now, but it looks like I'll be waiting a while... Dec 21 06:32:06 grr. hmm. this is tough :/ Dec 21 06:32:26 * nullpuppy wonders what it'd take to get a dev sample or something.. Dec 21 06:32:26 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 is the comparison Dec 21 06:32:38 or for that matter.. wonder if anyone near seattle has one for me to take a look at ;) Dec 21 06:34:51 They look pretty sexy imo Dec 21 06:36:51 ack! Dec 21 06:36:54 http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2007-June/006005.html Dec 21 06:37:08 according to that, the price will be $450/$600 Dec 21 06:37:11 grr. hmm. Dec 21 06:38:23 Yeah, I think that's still the going estimate... Dec 21 06:38:33 hrm Dec 21 06:39:00 Really that seems pretty good for what you're getting. Dec 21 06:39:20 It _is_ a smartphone, and it _does_ run linux... ;) Dec 21 06:39:38 hehe, yeah ;) Dec 21 06:39:39 i know. Dec 21 06:39:50 but, damn. i don't to spend that much! ;) Dec 21 06:40:00 i could get an unlocked iphone cheaper.. Dec 21 06:40:01 oh well. Dec 21 06:40:11 Really? Dec 21 06:40:49 well, maybe not. i dunno :) Dec 21 06:41:32 My biggest complaint is the delay. I lost my last phone and I need to replace it. Dec 21 06:41:42 yeah Dec 21 06:42:00 I'd really like to know what to expect with 850 band support since I spend a lot of time in areas that only have 850 coverage Dec 21 06:42:35 yeah. Dec 21 06:43:02 Do you know what 1900 coverage is like in the US? Dec 21 06:43:34 no idea. Dec 21 06:44:32 don't know much about the actual tech behind the cell coverage and networks. Dec 21 06:45:12 looking at the diffs between the 01 and 02, i'm gonna have to wait. Dec 21 06:45:16 http://www.rentcell.com/coverage-map-usa-gsm.htm Dec 21 06:45:17 ? Dec 21 06:45:33 guess i'll have to spend the next little while setting up the sdk and stuff and learning my way around the dev environment ;) Dec 21 06:46:23 hmm, interesting. Dec 21 06:47:10 http://www.fido.ca/portal/en/packages/unitedstates.shtml Dec 21 06:47:17 that has 850/1900 listed Dec 21 06:50:27 alright, well, i'm gonna head to bed. Dec 21 06:53:47 same here Dec 21 06:53:54 so far as I know, fido's coverage is mostly 1900 Dec 21 06:54:59 at least, in canada Dec 21 06:55:04 anyways Dec 21 06:55:05 cya Dec 21 07:30:42 Hello Everbody Dec 21 07:31:09 Try i tried to flash a jiffs Dec 21 07:31:38 but the flash processes took so long and didn't succeed Dec 21 07:31:47 What shall i do? Dec 21 07:34:35 Anybody there? Dec 21 07:35:50 Try again? How'd it fail? Dec 21 07:54:53 Hello Everybody Dec 21 07:54:58 Please help Dec 21 07:55:11 I didn't nand erase rootfs clean Dec 21 07:55:24 got some errors and suceeded Dec 21 07:55:51 moin Dec 21 07:55:54 Then i tried to flash a jiffs into it Dec 21 07:56:09 But it is not getting suceeded :( Dec 21 07:56:25 Is the filesystem partition got borked? Dec 21 07:57:02 do nand erase rootfs, then re dfu-util download the rootfs Dec 21 08:00:21 rwhitby : is this problem is caused by nand erase? Dec 21 08:01:11 as you said you didn't nand erase, and then got errors, I'm assuming you have an old version of u-boot which doesn't do the nand erase automatically when flashing a new rootfs. Dec 21 08:01:29 if that's the case, then the lack of nand erase is the problem. Dec 21 08:02:29 rwhitby : nope, i ran nand erase rootfs clean, got some errors, then succeeded, now not able flash new rootfs :( Dec 21 08:03:02 Can anyone point me to how I go from a bitbake recipie to an ipkg? Dec 21 08:03:08 raddy: what do you mean by "got some errors, then succeeded" - you need to be more explicit when asking for help. Dec 21 08:07:43 rwhitby : i got this error :( mtd erase failure -22 Dec 21 08:12:19 rwhitby : did you get any idea? Dec 21 08:18:39 good morning Dec 21 08:18:49 rwhitby: thanks for MMF! I just finished my first build (with minor hackery) Now to try installing it Dec 21 08:19:37 raddy: mtd error, the battery is charged enough? Dec 21 08:21:17 zilux : it might changed fully, when i ran nand erase rootfs didn't get any error Dec 21 08:31:52 Hello Everybody Dec 21 08:32:09 The phone was pluggin in the usb port Dec 21 08:32:20 was trying to flash it, Dec 21 08:35:02 raddy: it's exact error message? Dec 21 08:59:45 ... Dec 21 08:59:50 Mokomakefiled. Dec 21 09:00:00 dfu-util'd Dec 21 09:00:06 Now, to boot! Dec 21 09:00:24 me presses the small round button of doom. Dec 21 09:03:20 doesnt work :-) SpeedEvil do you know where i can get the old uboot, from May? Dec 21 09:05:48 It boots! Dec 21 09:06:55 SpeedEvil: what uboot version are you using? Dec 21 09:07:08 the one that came with my device Dec 21 09:07:09 mail it to me please. Dec 21 09:07:22 ahh, the one i overwrite :-) Dec 21 09:07:31 stupid me didnt do a backup :-) Dec 21 09:09:04 I'm not sure overwriting is the correct thing to do Dec 21 09:09:33 SpeedEvil: but i can delete it while running it can i? Dec 21 09:09:42 nand erase uboot ? Dec 21 09:09:52 sounds scary :-) Dec 21 09:10:30 I don't know. Dec 21 09:15:30 goxboxlive: hope you have a debug board ... Dec 21 09:16:17 rwhitby: yes Dec 21 09:16:19 :-) Dec 21 09:16:32 ave Dec 21 09:16:42 goxboxlive: then you don't need to ask - just try it and see. Dec 21 09:17:14 rwhitby: i will when i get homw, but i just need to get the u-boot that came with the phone because of the bug in the new one Dec 21 09:17:36 there are plenty of documented working u-boot versions. Dec 21 09:17:51 the one in the 2007.8 snapshot worked fine. Dec 21 09:18:10 oh man Dec 21 09:18:17 * torpor just got super hots for pandora ... Dec 21 09:18:38 rwhitby: all i needed to know, thx. Dec 21 09:19:08 :> Dec 21 10:07:20 this is gonna take forever NOTE: Running task 160 of 5303 (ID: 894, /home/han/moko/openembedded/packages/glibc/glibc-intermediate_2.5.bb, do_compile) Dec 21 10:10:19 kinneh, time to watch a movie? Dec 21 10:11:14 s/movie/movies/ Dec 21 10:12:03 kinneh: good news. Tasks after 25oo take about 1/2 the time Dec 21 10:12:08 2500 Dec 21 10:15:11 more like 10 movies Dec 21 12:04:07 rwhitby: thanks a lot. Now it boots with the power button. Dec 21 12:15:53 bollocks. Dec 21 12:15:57 canola 2 is css. Dec 21 12:57:56 openmoko: 03chris * r3715 10/trunk/src/target/gsm/ (ChangeLog src/util/event.c): Dec 21 12:57:58 openmoko: * src/util/event.c: (inds_handler): Dec 21 12:58:00 openmoko: Delivery status type is in sms->stat, not Dec 21 12:58:02 openmoko: sms->payload.coding_scheme (which is always zero) Dec 21 13:00:15 openmoko: 03chris * r3716 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-dialer2/ (5 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed) Dec 21 13:00:15 openmoko: * src/phone-kit/moko-network.c: (gsmd_eventhandler): Dec 21 13:00:15 openmoko: Send all delivery status events Dec 21 13:00:15 openmoko: * src/phone-kit/moko-sms-dbus.xml: Dec 21 13:00:15 openmoko: Make delivery status report optional Dec 21 13:00:17 openmoko: * src/phone-kit/moko-sms.c: (on_incoming_ds), (on_send_sms), Dec 21 13:00:21 openmoko: (moko_sms_send): Dec 21 13:01:31 openmoko: 03chris * r3717 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-messages2/ (ChangeLog src/sms-compose.c src/sms-notes.c src/sms.h): Dec 21 13:01:31 openmoko: * src/sms.h: Dec 21 13:01:31 openmoko: * src/sms-compose.c: (send_clicked_cb), (sms_compose_page_new): Dec 21 13:01:31 openmoko: Add a check-box for delivery status reports, adapt to altered API in Dec 21 13:01:31 openmoko: phone-kit Dec 21 13:01:33 openmoko: * src/sms-notes.c: (mark_messages_read_idle): Dec 21 13:01:37 openmoko: Fix possible crash when marking messages as read Dec 21 14:15:11 hello all Dec 21 14:15:28 openmoko: 03chris * r3718 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-messages2/ (ChangeLog src/sms-notes.c): Dec 21 14:15:28 openmoko: * src/sms-notes.c: (mark_messages_read_idle): Dec 21 14:15:28 openmoko: Fix to possible crash actually caused infinite loop. Fix properly. Dec 21 14:22:47 openmoko: 03chris * r3719 10/trunk/src/target/gsm/ (ChangeLog src/util/event.c): Dec 21 14:22:47 openmoko: * src/util/event.c: (inds_handler): Dec 21 14:22:47 openmoko: Back out change - sms->stat just contains junk (uninitialised?) Dec 21 14:28:49 openmoko: 03chris * r3720 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-dialer2/ (ChangeLog src/phone-kit/moko-sms.c): Dec 21 14:28:49 openmoko: * src/phone-kit/moko-sms.c: (on_incoming_ds): Dec 21 14:28:49 openmoko: Delivery status types were read correctly, seems gsmd always reports Dec 21 14:28:49 openmoko: REC_UNREAD, regardless of ds type? Dec 21 14:44:46 so how is the phone working Dec 21 14:57:33 kernel parameters insult a780 kernels Dec 21 15:19:50 hey mickeyl Dec 21 15:20:21 mickeyl: the qtopia skin is at http://folks.o-hand.com/andrew/ficgta01.skin/ but it's not as well done as i remembered :p Dec 21 15:20:23 yo balrog-kun Dec 21 15:21:15 you can see the scalling-up of the original image in some places Dec 21 15:21:35 yeah Dec 21 15:21:45 i'm using mine for the time being, although this is not cut out Dec 21 15:21:47 http://svnweb.openmoko.org/trunk/src/host/xoo/neo1973.jpg?rev=3702&view=markup Dec 21 15:21:54 i photographed this yesterday Dec 21 15:23:19 mickeyl: looks good, although the lighting could be more uniform Dec 21 15:23:57 true Dec 21 15:24:01 i suck at photographing... Dec 21 15:24:10 * balrog-kun still has the ugly protector layer on his lcd :p Dec 21 15:25:40 * mwester wonders if balrog-kun also has his sofa cushions wrapped in plastic ;) :D Dec 21 15:26:56 :) Dec 21 15:27:45 * SpeedEvil has some suitable protectors. $5 per, delivered worldwide. I need to put them on ebay. Dec 21 15:30:53 I would imagine that it would be easier to do a very nice job on applying the protectors on the neo, given that one could just remove the lcd so easily. Dec 21 15:31:26 yeah - it is. Dec 21 15:31:38 SpeedEvil: Are you using it? Is it good? Dec 21 15:31:45 yes. Dec 21 15:31:53 I am interested! Dec 21 15:31:53 It's one of the silicone based ones. Dec 21 15:32:00 It's got a silicone jelly-layer on the back. Dec 21 15:32:06 and then a hard face Dec 21 15:32:06 Shipping from where? Dec 21 15:32:10 UK Dec 21 15:32:36 Will I have to wait till you ebay it? Dec 21 15:32:59 Or send paypal. Dec 21 15:33:13 with your address. Dec 21 15:33:25 openmoko: 03sameo * r3721 10/developers/sameo/patches/ar6k-ng/ (8 files): Dec 21 15:33:25 openmoko: ar6k-ng: First working ar6k driver running on the kernel SDIO stack. Dec 21 15:33:25 openmoko: Mainly s3cmci fixes, but we now get to the point where eth0 gets Dec 21 15:33:25 openmoko: registered. Which means that we do PIO rw and get SDIO IRQs properly. Dec 21 15:34:50 ezayak yad Dec 21 15:35:28 hi all Dec 21 15:39:44 hello Megapower Dec 21 15:48:29 hello Dec 21 15:48:50 can someone tell me how to take a screen shot of the phone Dec 21 15:48:54 hi there. Dec 21 15:48:58 I tried gpe-scap Dec 21 15:49:11 what's the best qtopia image available? Dec 21 15:49:15 but I cant get it to take a shot of the app I want Dec 21 15:49:40 tek_grmln search for screen shot on wiki Dec 21 15:49:47 Tek_Grmln: hold AUX button Dec 21 15:49:50 until menu pops up Dec 21 15:49:58 sweet Dec 21 15:50:00 thanks Dec 21 15:50:04 np Dec 21 15:50:23 I am a retard, I am sure I have seen that menu before 2 Dec 21 15:50:23 s/menu/ugly window/ Dec 21 15:50:42 hrw: heh, you were the one who wanted it fullscreen. blame yourself :D Dec 21 15:51:00 mickeyl: I wanted power menu fullscreen Dec 21 15:51:08 now you got everything fullscreen Dec 21 15:51:23 and yes, it#s ugly. i'm going to fix this in q2/2008 :D Dec 21 15:51:26 MickeyOS Dec 21 15:51:29 bbiab, dinner Dec 21 15:51:34 smacznego mickey|dinner Dec 21 15:51:38 merci Dec 21 15:52:24 Well, at least I can use the new menu^H^Hwiindow with my thumb, so it's not all bad. Dec 21 15:53:05 I prefer to run gpe-scap by hand now Dec 21 15:53:09 much faster Dec 21 16:39:10 mwester: yeah, that was the idea in enlarging it Dec 21 16:40:56 damn i'm reflashing my neo with qtopia but i'm having kernel panic Dec 21 16:41:12 unable to mount root Dec 21 16:52:46 bedboi: that should be some rather obvious mistake, like wrong file flashed or wrong partition or something Dec 21 16:53:42 compressed image etc Dec 21 16:53:59 i found out Dec 21 17:02:28 is this ok: setenv bootargs_base rootfstype=jffs2 root=/dev/mtdblock4 console=tty0 loglevel=8 Dec 21 17:02:30 ? Dec 21 17:22:47 openmoko: 03chris * r3722 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-messages2/ (ChangeLog src/sms-main.c src/sms-notes.c src/sms.h): Dec 21 17:22:47 openmoko: * src/sms-main.c: Dec 21 17:22:47 openmoko: * src/sms-notes.c: (sms_notes_data_func), (sms_notes_page_new): Dec 21 17:22:47 openmoko: * src/sms.h: Dec 21 17:22:47 openmoko: Add emblem support for sent/sending/rejected messages Dec 21 17:24:45 bedboi: make sure you're including ${mtdparts} in the kernel bootargs Dec 21 17:49:07 Is it possible to tether a Neo to an EDGE phone via bluetooth like the Maemo does? Dec 21 17:51:08 Speed Evil: are you around? Dec 21 17:51:44 kdean06, sure Dec 21 17:52:32 2.5G + 2.75G = 5.25G? Dec 21 17:52:35 * anrp scratches head Dec 21 18:07:03 anyone know you the ar6k wifi driver is progressing? Dec 21 18:07:09 *know how Dec 21 18:31:30 I was told the other day that it (the wifi driver) is working Dec 21 18:31:52 I think it's in the archives on this channel for yesterday or the day before Dec 21 18:32:36 +/- OT: phone speaking through ear: Dec 21 18:32:40 http://www.metimes.com/Technology/2007/12/20/phone_devise_lets_you_speak_through_ear/6587/ Dec 21 18:34:01 That's actually pretty neat. :) Dec 21 18:34:11 wow, very nice! Dec 21 18:34:47 if it works, could perhaps also improve voice recognition Dec 21 18:35:58 Does anyone have a recommendation of where to pick up python ipk files for the neo? What I see on the wiki tells me to get ScaredyCats files... Dec 21 18:38:16 zilux: that's nothing new. there already are headsets that use the bones in the ear to do that. Dec 21 18:41:27 zilux: http://www.bluetomorrow.com/content/section/421/578/ Dec 21 18:41:58 thomasg: thanks Dec 21 19:04:55 moin Dec 21 19:05:20 so the SMS notification bug is closed, thats good news Dec 21 19:06:39 how do I change the background picture? Dec 21 19:07:51 wurp2: which python-modules do you need? Dec 21 19:11:56 hhf423: cp your pic to /usr/share/pixmaps/wallpaper.png Dec 21 19:12:56 Marcel_M: let me try that Dec 21 19:13:19 ah, cool, that works. thanks! Dec 21 19:13:39 :) Dec 21 19:14:41 emdete: Sorry for the slow response... I'd like pycairo, psyco, and anything needed for the bluetooth stuff to start with Dec 21 19:15:23 My neo was just delivered today - I haven't seen it yet, so I dunno what comes on the standard jffs rootfs Dec 21 19:16:57 phew, that's alot. i never check cairo. probably best to build it yourself. Dec 21 19:17:13 wurp2: where do you come from? Dec 21 19:17:29 emdete: Dallas/Fort Worth area in Texas Dec 21 19:18:10 that's probably too far to ask you if you attend fosdem :( Dec 21 19:18:15 I'm very excited about it, but I'm not sure how much I'll actually get done on it - I have a full time job & a family Dec 21 19:18:51 i made good advance with my idea when i started to do everything in python Dec 21 19:19:01 Nah, we only visit Europe for a week or two every three years :-( Dec 21 19:19:59 hey, thats alot! i visit America much more seldon ;) Dec 21 19:20:38 I've been really impressed by some python projects I've seen recently - pyroute, turbogears Dec 21 19:21:04 And the code for dealing with bluetooth on the neo in python is beautiful Dec 21 19:21:04 ..gajim, exaile, Dec 21 19:21:31 i only tried pan. that works fine with shell scripts Dec 21 19:22:03 Ooo, I need to get exaile Dec 21 19:22:23 I have some ideas for exaile + gps + networking Dec 21 19:22:28 yes, discovered that recently. okay, it's not bug free but it is amazing what it can do Dec 21 19:30:54 emdete: So, do you have any recommendations on where to pick up my python packages? :-) Dec 21 19:31:10 localhost ;) Dec 21 19:31:18 build those you need your own Dec 21 19:31:36 setup a http server and put that into neo's ipkg list Dec 21 19:31:42 it's easy Dec 21 19:31:47 ugh, I was hoping to avoid building a cross compilation env for a while Dec 21 19:31:52 i do that all the time Dec 21 19:32:07 yeah, it's the initial set-up I wanted to put off Dec 21 19:32:11 hm, it cost a day and 10GB... but it works fine Dec 21 19:32:12 and... Dec 21 19:32:28 I do it infrequently enough that by the time I do it again, I would prolly have to set it up anew Dec 21 19:32:51 witch mokomakefile no problem. i work exactly that way Dec 21 19:33:12 OK, cool Dec 21 19:33:35 there are not that many people out there intersted in python on the neo Dec 21 19:33:56 Thanks for the feedback. It always sucks to launch into one of these things not knowing whether to expect it to be straightforward or a beating Dec 21 19:34:07 Yeah, I see a lot of people doing C Dec 21 19:34:15 C for apps is bad, bad, bad Dec 21 19:34:37 I saw someone on this very group a couple of days ago arguing against Java on security grounds Dec 21 19:34:40 ?!? Dec 21 19:34:42 c rocks but for development python is faster. if i know how to do it i can decide to put thing into c Dec 21 19:35:12 I've seen interest in python. And have it. Dec 21 19:35:18 It is very easy to do evil things to memory in C Dec 21 19:35:19 okay, i don't like java but security policy is just great there for a mobile Dec 21 19:35:22 accidentally Dec 21 19:35:34 Yeah, I dunno about java for the mobile - I don't have experience Dec 21 19:35:37 mjr: okay, we are 3 :D Dec 21 19:35:58 and arguments that it sucks memory, and is constraining, are accurate Dec 21 19:36:03 wurp2: shure - i maintain a dfb-python binding. it's like hell ;) Dec 21 19:36:08 arguments that it's less secure than C are crazy Dec 21 19:36:33 but i wouldn like java on my neo if python is avaiable Dec 21 19:36:41 I'll prolly do almost all my work on the neo in python Dec 21 19:36:46 yeah, me neither Dec 21 19:37:11 wurp2, me, too Dec 21 19:37:14 i think that if you want consumer acceptance, you'll need java, simply to run all the java apps written for cell phones Dec 21 19:37:20 even if you don't code in it Dec 21 19:37:27 Probably true Dec 21 19:37:29 i did a gmsd prototype in python an even that is fast enough Dec 21 19:37:32 and I've picked up my python packages from the usual repos, btw Dec 21 19:37:42 build the app & debug in python, then rewrite in Java :-) Dec 21 19:37:50 ...? Dec 21 19:37:55 anrp: if you have better apps who wants that java crap? :D Dec 21 19:38:03 people who don't want to rewrite Dec 21 19:38:03 mjr, can you point me at the usual repos? Dec 21 19:38:40 I think I could probably write it in python, debug, then rewrite in java almost as fast as just writing in Java Dec 21 19:38:54 buildhost.openmoko.org Dec 21 19:39:11 welllll. ok, i can't really comment on that ~_~ Dec 21 19:39:14 * anrp unqualified Dec 21 19:40:24 I have a *lot* of java experience Dec 21 19:40:34 and a medium amount of python experience Dec 21 19:42:13 * mwester suspects that most python and java programmers will be very surprised to find out how limiting such a small processor and tiny amount of memory the Neo really has Dec 21 19:42:45 mwester: just fine for a language like python ;) Dec 21 19:43:12 wurp2: Why rewrite it in Java? Dec 21 19:43:21 I'd prefer to do my app development in Perl, but I'm forced to accept that the CPU and memory limitations don't let me use the greatest features of that language, and as a result, Perl that runs efficiently on a Neo looks rather like C. Dec 21 19:43:24 If you're doing commercial stuff, to hit a bigger market Dec 21 19:43:36 mwester, heh Dec 21 19:43:46 wurp2: buildhost is lacking some python packages i needed (i.e. ctypes), thats the cause i build myown repo Dec 21 19:43:49 wurp2: Just for the Neo? Dec 21 19:43:54 nah Dec 21 19:43:58 Oh, OK Dec 21 19:45:20 Neo seems like an ideal platform to build some of the blindingly obvious things cell phones should do but don't, show the app to investors, then go rewrite targetting more mass market phones (and get a licensing deal so you can actually distribute to them) Dec 21 19:46:25 hello Dec 21 19:46:54 when will be neo1973 launched? Dec 21 19:47:06 the second version, of course Dec 21 19:47:11 the gta02, in March, we're told Dec 21 19:47:18 wurp2: excellent analysis Dec 21 19:47:19 I gave in and bought an 01 last week Dec 21 19:47:52 mickeyl: thx :-) Dec 21 19:48:11 no devices before march? Dec 21 19:48:21 No 02 Dec 21 19:49:08 oh :( Dec 21 19:50:25 emdete: I don't suppose you'd post a list of the python pkgs you've built on the wiki and let people request downloads? :-) Dec 21 19:50:36 re Dec 21 19:51:01 wurp2: no, not now... when you asked i just thought of doing so... ;) Dec 21 19:51:05 wurp2: not on the wiki but request those packages to be built and put in official feeds rather Dec 21 19:51:22 gta02 in March... would be nice Dec 21 19:51:35 now, when wifi even works... Dec 21 19:52:20 Yeah, I think I'm going to be more concerned about power management :-) Dec 21 19:52:32 What are the PM problems in 02v4? Dec 21 19:52:33 I want all the cool stuff, but I want to be able to use it as a phone first Dec 21 19:52:34 wurp2: but I am not such optimist Dec 21 19:52:53 * hrw -> movie Dec 21 19:53:33 strcpy(movie,"Snakes on a plane"); Dec 21 19:55:47 that's scary Dec 21 19:55:53 no - true lies again Dec 21 19:55:58 not the movie title; not using strncpy Dec 21 19:56:33 mickeyl: gta02v5 is final? Dec 21 19:56:47 hrw|tv: unclear Dec 21 19:57:24 mickeyl: wifi works with v2 (or v4), glamo starts to work for x11... Dec 21 19:57:55 mickeyl: does mmc-over-glamo works at all? Dec 21 19:58:19 hrw|tv: not yet confirmed from within linux. Dec 21 19:58:28 ok Dec 21 19:58:43 so v5 being final is really unclear Dec 21 19:58:47 yep Dec 21 19:59:08 again some pullups to add/remove etc... Dec 21 20:00:26 mickeyl, though I don't see how, are there any potential additional issues visible in getting sdhc through the glamo? Dec 21 20:00:26 possible Dec 21 20:00:49 and to my knowledge no one has got any signal from the accels up to date Dec 21 20:00:51 mjr: if you get sd/mmc working then sdhc will also work Dec 21 20:01:02 ack Dec 21 20:01:23 hrw|tv, that's pretty much what I thought, just wasn't positive Dec 21 20:01:23 aslong as the verification of all componets is not done completely its all just speculation ;) Dec 21 20:01:34 mjr: pxa zauruses works nice with 8gb sdhc Dec 21 20:01:49 when vendor (sharp) released it with 1GB cards max Dec 21 20:02:17 larger ones should also works Dec 21 20:04:49 * mjr is still waiting on those 8 gig microsds to come generally available around here.. Dec 21 20:05:37 Oh, they estimate two weeks for delivery. Maybe I'll stick an order in, can't hurt. Dec 21 20:08:41 will also have to bag a regular size 8-gigger for the XO :P~ Dec 21 20:10:40 How much are the 8 gig microsds? Dec 21 20:11:13 Here a 4GB, mostly for the Reiseplaner maps Dec 21 20:11:28 87 euros list price here, hope they actually get them in the two weeks though... Dec 21 20:12:24 I think I'll wait for that to drop Dec 21 20:12:36 It's too much for us poor Americans ;-) Dec 21 20:13:36 bushels of toilet paper money, I'm sure Dec 21 20:15:20 flash is right around $10/gb now Dec 21 20:15:55 Yeah, except that's like $15/gb Dec 21 20:16:19 it's also with the Finland price bonus Dec 21 20:16:38 a bonus :B Dec 21 20:16:48 Very nice if you really need 8gb, but I think I'll make do with what I have + internet access Dec 21 20:17:05 er, network access via bluetooth Dec 21 20:17:24 * mjr would really like a 16-gigger for the XO, but seems they're insanely priced Dec 21 20:17:45 oh wait, they aren't! Dec 21 20:18:38 Transcend 16GB (non-micro)SDHC 113 euros, I'll bag that Dec 21 20:19:10 <|R> you can get them for 115 USD off eBay Dec 21 20:20:22 please can somebody help me , I have lost my jtag cable Dec 21 20:20:35 plus shipping, quite possible taxes on the border if from outside EU, and added inconvenience in case of problems Dec 21 20:21:28 <|R> mjr : hehe maybe :) Dec 21 20:21:41 openmoko: 03rwhitby * r173 10mokomakefile/trunk/Makefile: Fixed the name of the toolchain bitbake command Dec 21 20:22:22 anyway, yum, my (eventually arriving...) XO will have plenty of storage then Dec 21 20:22:32 xpgs: what help do you want? Dec 21 20:22:56 where can i get it ? I checked local markets but couldn't get it Dec 21 20:23:14 xpgs: Sorry, I dunno :-( Dec 21 20:24:02 :(( Dec 21 20:26:26 xpgs: I dunno what kind of jtag you need... is http://hri.sourceforge.net/tools/jtag_faq_org.html#_Toc63218720 of help? Dec 21 20:26:43 I mean, I know you need one for the neo, but I dunno anything about the neo jtags :-) Dec 21 20:27:38 xpgs: I presume you mean the flexible strip that connects the Neo to the debug board? Dec 21 20:27:55 yeah mwester Dec 21 20:28:25 You'll need to contact openmoko for that; that's not a standard part. Dec 21 20:29:10 ok will do that , but will openmoko ship only flexible strip Dec 21 20:29:43 Dunno, you'll have to ask them. :( Dec 21 21:22:51 hi to all Dec 21 21:23:10 hey Dec 21 21:31:42 hi Dec 21 22:25:09 so quiet Dec 21 22:25:42 quiet before the storm ? Dec 21 22:26:30 or the storming? Dec 21 22:28:05 It's early in the morning in asia, and late in europe, so no traffic here :-) Dec 21 22:37:15 I'm looking for embedded bluetooth serial. dose someone have something like it? Dec 21 22:39:07 what do you mean "embedded bluetooth serial"? Dec 21 22:40:22 bluetooth embedded yy dil, electronic circuit, serial yyy with rfcomm stack Dec 21 22:42:36 poland is strange contry. you can by a 70` lcd but when you go tu electronics's shop they don't know about existing something like bluetooth. Dec 21 22:43:41 funny, that's like my local Dixons :) Dec 21 22:46:49 yoyo: I'm sorry, what's a yy dil? Dec 21 22:47:24 and, since you know about rfcomm, then you must know that that's all that's needed on the openmoko end. Dec 21 22:47:33 circuit board you can do in dil technology or smd ,... Dec 21 22:49:14 "Dual in-line package" according to wikipedia Dec 21 22:50:18 ahhh, well, there's a bunch of manufacturers who make serial bluetooth modules. Dec 21 22:51:22 The only one I've worked with is the BlueSMiRF Dec 21 22:51:23 nelson: I know that. but any of that manufacturers are saling in poland :/ Dec 21 22:51:42 Not being Polish, I couldn't say. Dec 21 22:52:03 Spark Fun Electronics sells the BlueSMiRF. Dec 21 22:53:03 I could find Poland on a map pretty reliably. Just head for Germany and turn right. You can't miss it. Dec 21 22:53:13 its .. over yonder Dec 21 22:53:19 across the pond. Dec 21 22:53:20 * anrp points in a random direction Dec 21 22:53:38 keep going, you can't miss it Dec 21 22:53:40 over the hills, and through the woods. Dec 21 22:53:50 over the mountains and bye the bye Dec 21 22:53:58 To yoyo's house we go! Dec 21 22:54:00 nelson: yes on the east of germany Dec 21 22:54:03 :o Dec 21 22:54:06 hyhyh Dec 21 22:58:23 over the rainbow Dec 21 23:00:14 next grate example about what in the country where I live :/ see planet.openmoko.org :.../ Dec 21 23:18:38 I'w got it !! :) Dec 21 23:20:05 mickey|zzZZzz: X11 is the way to go rather than fb because ONE OF THESE DAYS we'll get X display migration working, and then when you walk up to your desktop, your phone/pda/tablet applications will simply move over to your X display. Dec 21 23:20:25 yoyo: what do you have? Did you find a Polish vendor for a bluetooth serial device? Dec 21 23:20:45 and vnc can do the same Dec 21 23:20:56 nelson: yes ! Dec 21 23:21:14 ljp: you could also duct-tape your mobile device to your desktop's monitor. Dec 21 23:21:32 hahahah ;) Dec 21 23:22:19 nelson: I vote for fb ;) Dec 21 23:22:20 hmm N810 doesnt play ogg, how sucky is that Dec 21 23:22:41 nelson: make people realise they need to rethink their UI instead of squeezing GIMP into 640x480 Dec 21 23:23:25 Stephmw: well, yes, that's my point: that applications need to realize that 1) they might have to run on a really small screen, and 2) they might have to change sizes mid-stream. Dec 21 23:23:44 I have a lot of hope for X, now that it's being run by sane people. Dec 21 23:23:47 nelson: you'd be surprised how many people don't think they need to make any changes Dec 21 23:23:52 Stephmw: same issue with the ASUS eee-pc, apps not hacked before hand look horrible on it low res scren Dec 21 23:23:58 screen* Dec 21 23:24:20 nelson: I've had to deal with a number of project managers on this point before Dec 21 23:24:27 Stephmw: one of these days I need to weld up my own ClueBringer, the Sword of Education. Dec 21 23:24:27 * Stephmw pats his ClueBat Dec 21 23:24:37 mine's got iron studs Dec 21 23:24:38 I have my doubts about using X on small devices Dec 21 23:24:54 Linux_Galore: works great. Dec 21 23:25:35 Linux_Galore: been doing it since 1999 on my Compaq iPAQ. Dec 21 23:25:57 nelson: just because on can do it doesnt mean its the right tool Dec 21 23:26:01 one* Dec 21 23:26:09 I always wanted to do a Python-only system for it ... call it pyPAQ. Dec 21 23:26:40 nelson: rename it s slowpaq Dec 21 23:26:48 Linux_Galore: why wouldn't it be the right tool? Maybe we should argue about text editors instead -- there's so much more fun there. Dec 21 23:26:49 nelson: rename it a slowpaq Dec 21 23:27:00 why? It wasn't slow. Dec 21 23:27:26 Clearly you're a man of strong opinions and little experience. Dec 21 23:27:30 nelson: aye, it's tough to argue abstracts :) we need mickeyl to get his benchmark done with acceleration && get some usability guys onboard Dec 21 23:27:59 talking of speed, Swing on SavaJe hardware was just fine Dec 21 23:28:10 and that was on par with the Neo Dec 21 23:28:32 Stephmw: If you have any doubts about X, we need to send you to X re-education camp with Jim Gettys. Dec 21 23:29:10 nelson: my doubts aren't based on X's technical features Dec 21 23:29:24 nelson: I just think it's unecessary to have so many Dec 21 23:29:43 * mwester hides in the bushes until the battle moves elsewhere :p Dec 21 23:29:54 * mjr goes to have X Dec 21 23:30:09 * Stephmw starts taking names Dec 21 23:30:10 Oh, there's no battle .... X has won. Dec 21 23:30:31 over what? Dec 21 23:30:37 does someone here have an example navit.xml ? Dec 21 23:30:42 writing directly to the frame buffer. Dec 21 23:30:45 zash: some direct fb toolkit Dec 21 23:30:56 zash: DirectFB or related Dec 21 23:30:56 I'm still unconvinced of the utility of X on a small form-factor device for the average person Dec 21 23:31:15 for technical people, sure, it's useful, but otherwise... Dec 21 23:31:37 bluelightning: well, first, none of us are average, and what we should be doing is making the benefits available to everybody, not giving up on them. Dec 21 23:31:50 nelson: what benefits though? Dec 21 23:32:02 nelson have you seen Canola runnung on a Nokia web tablet, it doesnt use X at all http://openbossa.indt.org.br/canola/ Dec 21 23:32:02 (that the average person is likely to find useful) Dec 21 23:32:08 display transparency. Dec 21 23:32:19 nelson: for? Dec 21 23:32:21 Linux_Galore: oh, well now I'm *sure* I don't want to use Canola. Dec 21 23:32:28 dinner beckons, bye. Dec 21 23:32:46 * ljp is sure qtopia has transparency Dec 21 23:32:47 * Stephmw looks at canola... hmmm, transparency Dec 21 23:33:01 pretty much everything nowdays supports compositing Dec 21 23:33:21 I'm not sure that's what he meant by display transparency... Dec 21 23:33:39 at least I hope not Dec 21 23:33:55 not particularly convincing if it was Dec 21 23:33:59 think he meant more something like screen portability? Dec 21 23:34:03 i want _real_ transparency where I can see the innards of the device on teh screen Dec 21 23:34:10 ljp: haha Dec 21 23:34:11 Stephmw: that's what I assumed Dec 21 23:34:22 ljp: didn't Nokia release a phone like that? Dec 21 23:34:24 ljp: heh Dec 21 23:34:47 bluelightning: right - I'm not sure why he thinks FB toolkits don't allow such portability Dec 21 23:34:50 ljp: old style b/w lcd-screens without background? Dec 21 23:34:52 I saw a blog recently and they have added touch screen support to a Asus eee, not very hard to add apparently Dec 21 23:35:07 Linux_Galore: that's pretty interesting - link? Dec 21 23:35:11 hm, _that's_ the reason we need a camera phone; to do real-time transparency on the display Dec 21 23:35:13 you can buy a kit for about US$80 Dec 21 23:35:19 mjr: hahaha Dec 21 23:35:40 mjr: I want to hack up a digital lightmeter ;) Dec 21 23:35:59 Stephmw: http://jkkmobile.blogspot.com/2007/12/asus-eee-pc-with-touch-screen.html Dec 21 23:36:04 mjr: but alas phone cameras are just shite for that Dec 21 23:36:41 mjr: also, it's ideal if the camera is actually on the same side as the screen Dec 21 23:36:46 mjr: why dont we cram all the chips in a ring around the display Dec 21 23:36:52 mjr: with a projector Dec 21 23:37:01 THAT BE COOL Dec 21 23:37:30 zash: tracks would be too long so you would have noise problems Dec 21 23:37:34 ala minority report Dec 21 23:38:26 and when do we get the mid-air full color projector Dec 21 23:38:42 right after the AG unit Dec 21 23:39:05 and also the micro V12 Dec 21 23:39:06 Ive seen a mnid air projector already, they use humidity and lasers Dec 21 23:39:06 ~V12 Dec 21 23:39:07 it has been said that v12 is the next must-have in the Neo1973, http://www.ultimatestupidity.com/pics/1/diesel/ Dec 21 23:39:32 404 :( Dec 21 23:39:48 damnit Dec 21 23:39:51 * Stephmw goes hunting Dec 21 23:39:57 borg_: did you check http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Navit Dec 21 23:40:12 aha Dec 21 23:40:18 google cache for the rescue Dec 21 23:40:22 ~v12 is the next must-have in the Neo1973, http://people.bath.ac.uk/ccsshb/12cyl/ Dec 21 23:40:23 ...but v12 is already something else... Dec 21 23:40:28 ~forget v12 Dec 21 23:40:28 Stephmw: i forgot v12 Dec 21 23:40:30 ~v12 is the next must-have in the Neo1973, http://people.bath.ac.uk/ccsshb/12cyl/ Dec 21 23:40:45 updated :) Dec 21 23:42:16 zilux: oh, thx Dec 21 23:42:23 i searched for "navid" and found nothing Dec 21 23:42:24 omg :) Dec 21 23:42:33 :-) Dec 21 23:43:16 any pics of the GTA3 yet Dec 21 23:43:36 also, we need a nuclear powerlant in the size of the neo1973-battery Dec 21 23:44:37 zash: didn't Toshiba recently publicise a micro-sized one for large buildings? Dec 21 23:44:43 zash: won't take long now Dec 21 23:44:47 Toshiba just released some details on a small nuclear power plant Dec 21 23:45:26 Stephmw: yes, in some parts of the world getting a consistant power supply is a big problem Dec 21 23:47:10 if your a multi billions dollar operation in some backward country having the power go down all the time is not conducive to proffits so spending $500 mil on a power plant is an easy choice Dec 21 23:48:48 * Stephmw nods Dec 21 23:48:52 I understand the motivation Dec 21 23:49:15 anyhow, best get some sleep... 'night guys Dec 21 23:49:43 In India the contant brown outs made one local entrepreneur build his own wind generators, other companies saw how well it worked so they requested wind generators too. Now the company is one of the larget wind mill makers in the world Dec 21 23:49:51 constant* Dec 21 23:52:10 oh well, sleep it is Dec 22 00:01:00 time to sleep 28800; Dec 22 00:01:02 seeya Dec 22 01:15:52 openmoko: 03andrew * r3723 10/trunk/src/host/qemu-neo1973/VERSION: Set a specific VERSION string indentifying the tree. Dec 22 02:24:12 openmoko: 03andrew * r3724 10/trunk/src/host/qemu-neo1973/hw/ (sd.c sd.h): Make sd_state_e global, implement SD CMD8 and R7 from SD spec 2.00. Dec 22 02:29:51 openmoko: 03andrew * r3725 10/trunk/src/host/qemu-neo1973/hw/sd.c: Fix errors and warnings resulting from new SDIO only states. **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat Dec 22 02:59:56 2007