**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Jan 02 02:59:57 2008 Jan 02 03:08:34 openmoko: 03erin_yueh * r3758 10/trunk/src/target/gsm/ (include/libgsmd/sms.h src/gsmd/sms_pdu.c): gsmd: add TP-STATUS return code table (Erin Yueh) Jan 02 06:23:14 morning europe Jan 02 06:23:29 and good midday to asia Jan 02 06:26:23 moin Jan 02 06:49:09 anyone know how to install Sjf2410-linux from the tarball Jan 02 07:03:58 hmm LANCOR vs OLPC case looking like attempt to slow down OLPC distribution, do I sound paranoid or anti M$ if I start connecting it with M$ porting XP on OLPC ? Jan 02 07:22:51 Mononoke youre paranoid.. winxp can only be working properly when the screen is xga or higher res (thats also why the eee does not get a certified sticker) Jan 02 07:23:09 besides that the olpc is dead meat already for all 1st worl_ders Jan 02 07:24:28 slow, crappy hardware, bad batteries, unusable ui, unusable keyboard.. well.. its made for children in countries where you got nearly no power and or connectivity. with some good software it will do its job. Jan 02 07:24:51 if youre searching for something into your handbag, i'ld go for a eee Jan 02 07:25:19 the name of Asus' notebook says all what I think of it :) Jan 02 07:26:22 Mononoke well.. i had both in my hands already (olpc and eee) and would go for the latter if i need to use one of these. atleast it has a keyboard and a black case. and a proper battery. Jan 02 07:27:08 with proper i mean li-ion and not ni/mh (which is good for 3rd world, but not here) Jan 02 07:27:41 nod, ni/mh was imho mistake Jan 02 07:27:48 if you have the money, spend it and give some child an olpc. Jan 02 07:28:18 hey I'm poor student Jan 02 07:28:26 ni/mh is no mistake. it was intentionally chosen since you can replace thoisse in the field by an regular electronician with an soldering iron. Jan 02 07:28:56 li-ion is dangerous and not buyable as spare part. you would have to swap the whole battery with the battery-.casing Jan 02 07:29:09 which is not a problem here, but in africa Jan 02 07:29:50 these guys are not as stupid as it seems sometimes. the olpc is really built to last in such environments and the infrastructure the people have there Jan 02 07:30:09 they did a good job in the whole i think Jan 02 07:30:22 we'll see in few years :) Jan 02 07:30:29 even if its difficult do understand from the limited perspective we as euopeans or americans sometimes get Jan 02 07:30:40 s/do/to Jan 02 07:31:52 well africa is huge hole on map of the internet and there is realy need to do something about it :S Jan 02 07:32:00 Mononoke youre a student? where are you located? Jan 02 07:32:10 morning lorn Jan 02 07:33:45 roh: I would answer czecho-slovakia =] Jan 02 07:34:15 Mononoke ah. nice. thats not that far Jan 02 07:36:15 btw not only africa is "disconnected" for example look on pings from your location to LA and than look on pings from your location to Singapore and so on Jan 02 07:36:35 hehe.. bleive me i knoiw about that. Jan 02 07:36:53 i am living in berlin. Jan 02 07:38:05 my colleagues are in taipeh, bejing, sidy, LA, nyc, somewhrere in poland, different locations in england and braunschweig.. Jan 02 07:38:35 we even have an asian and european mailserver to ease the pain of latency for our colleagues Jan 02 07:39:03 is Gismo_C around these days? Jan 02 07:39:06 btw.. sorry fo the typos.. the keyboard here is dying (just ordered replacement service at lenovo) Jan 02 07:39:27 or any way i could make some changes to the webkit build bot configuration? we've stopped using qmake in favour of autotools Jan 02 07:39:33 alp yes. i wanted to meet him today. whats up? Jan 02 07:39:54 aaah.. yes.. thats nice (finally no q-foo needed anymore) Jan 02 07:40:00 i think zecke was maintaining the bot before but trolltech have snapped him up now ;-) Jan 02 07:40:11 eh? Jan 02 07:40:35 yes.. webkit builds were on buildhost-old which was renamed recently afaik Jan 02 07:41:37 i don't know, maybe zecke is still maintaining it. he's been busy with Qt development lately though i gather Jan 02 07:42:14 i see. well. then please check with him if he will continue maintaining that builds of if somebody else (you?) will take that. Jan 02 07:44:48 will do. thanks roh Jan 02 07:45:06 just drop me a mail and i will take care Jan 02 07:46:54 and now to breakfast and getting that stupid silver glitter out of nmy hair Jan 02 07:47:03 ;) Jan 02 07:56:43 can anyone tell me how to install Sjf2410 right quick? Jan 02 07:57:00 it wont make Jan 02 07:57:05 derekcorwin not really.. i think besides harald nearly noone used it. Jan 02 07:57:11 you have a Q2410? Jan 02 07:57:17 or why do you need it Jan 02 07:57:33 I gotta debug board, and i bricked the moko Jan 02 07:57:53 well.. then you do not need Sjf2410 Jan 02 07:58:04 I deleted the boot loader Jan 02 07:58:13 uboot Jan 02 07:58:13 just the lowlevel_foo for your hw-rev and uboot for the same Jan 02 07:58:40 lwlevel_foo gets loaded into ram, execured to get the sdram up and running Jan 02 07:59:09 but I gotta brick Jan 02 07:59:09 the uboot gets loaded into ram (both via jtag) and also executed and can be used to partition the mtd and flash itself via dfu Jan 02 07:59:22 yes. your brick gets unbricked that way. Jan 02 07:59:48 mokmpls.-. i search out the whole manual Jan 02 08:00:16 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Bootloader#Using_JTAG_to_boot_from_RAM Jan 02 08:00:43 okay let me look at it for a few mins Jan 02 08:36:36 openmoko: 03erin_yueh * r3759 10/trunk/src/target/gsm/src/gsmd/vendor_ti.c: gsmd: remove AT%CPHS from vendor_ti.c (Erin Yueh) Jan 02 08:38:26 mnorning Jan 02 09:18:48 WIRESHARK CONTAINS OVER ONE POINT FIVE MILLION LINES OF SOURCE CODE. DO NOT RUN THEM AS ROOT. Jan 02 09:18:50 LOL Jan 02 09:28:57 1,500,000? Jan 02 09:29:01 Gosh. Jan 02 09:30:05 <_diego___> your kernel code contains more than 50'000'000 line of code, don't run it as root... Jan 02 09:31:54 Heh, the kernel defines root. Jan 02 09:32:20 Kernel > root. Jan 02 09:33:54 hehe.. yeah. but the kernel also seems to have some kind of code quality review ;) Jan 02 09:34:10 And wireshark doesn't? Jan 02 09:35:43 AVee some code in there really is crappy Jan 02 09:36:21 Hm, wireshark is ethereal. Why did they change the name? Jan 02 09:36:54 to many bugs? Jan 02 09:36:56 +o Jan 02 09:37:17 Possibly :) Jan 02 09:37:27 Fuss about trademark ownership Jan 02 09:37:30 the maintainer changed companys and the old one owns the name. (trademark) Jan 02 09:37:41 _diego___: Large parts of monolithic kernels' code could be run as non-root. Jan 02 09:38:10 Oh, nasty. Jan 02 09:38:14 Yeah, lets get minix on the Neo :) Jan 02 09:38:22 \o/ Jan 02 09:38:37 Hahaha Jan 02 09:38:41 Would be an interesting project... Jan 02 09:38:49 Or the Hurd Jan 02 09:39:19 haha.. atleast then the answer to 'is it done yet' is clear for one Jan 02 10:47:35 Did anyone of you try to run/use java or mono on your device? Is it usable (read: works well enough for small scale apps that don't require lots of computing power)? Jan 02 10:53:34 Blafasel: mono works pretty well, there's a lot of JIT work going to make it fly on ARM Jan 02 10:54:21 miguel posted about some packages a few weeks back, http://tirania.org/blog/archive/2007/Oct-04.html Jan 02 10:56:06 alp: Nice, thank you Jan 02 11:19:57 On GPS accuracy: http://www.racelogic.co.uk/?show=VBOX-Products-VBOX_III_RTK&gclid=COCtyPO115ACFQ5hMAoddCIpPA Jan 02 11:20:06 (no, it's not relevant to the neo) Jan 02 11:44:52 hej NineX Jan 02 11:45:44 hrw: ave Jan 02 11:47:00 hrw: widze ze moj pijany topic sie trzyma :> Jan 02 11:50:04 ;D Jan 02 11:50:27 #oe has it changed now Jan 02 11:51:12 hrw: ;P Jan 02 11:54:13 NineX: ping Jan 02 11:57:01 * * OM Bug 1150 has been created by emanuele.zamprogno(AT)medicinaopen.info Jan 02 11:57:02 * * OE don' t create root image with ext3 FS on AMD64 Jan 02 11:57:03 * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1150 Jan 02 12:00:29 SpeedEvil: that truly is a bad-ass GPS ;) Jan 02 12:05:06 * SpeedEvil stabs global-locates lawyers. Jan 02 12:05:37 * Mononoke stabs SpeedEvil back Jan 02 12:05:58 hrw: pong Jan 02 12:06:19 well - those of them that decided that releasing specs was a bad thing. Jan 02 13:07:09 Hi, Is there technology on X11 like windows direct draw/show? Jan 02 13:08:01 * * OM Bug 1151 has been created by roman.moravcik(AT)gmail.com Jan 02 13:08:02 * * Battery plugin status icon isn't updated when neo is running from battery Jan 02 13:08:03 * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1151 Jan 02 13:21:33 Geen idee, nooit gebruikt. Irssi piept als er iets gebeurt, doet de windows versie dat ook? Jan 02 13:21:45 Sorry, wrong window :X Jan 02 13:22:01 set b off Jan 02 13:22:05 In terminal :) Jan 02 13:22:11 Unless you actually want it. Jan 02 13:23:20 Nah, someone else is stupid enough to use the windows version and wants an indication on the taskbar. Normally the terminal app should handle that kind of stuff, but on windows... Jan 02 13:23:37 Ahh ok. Jan 02 13:23:44 Irssi in Windows, hmm Jan 02 13:24:00 I'd set up a PI box with Linux and run it from that :) Jan 02 13:32:27 Richard__, in what sense "like"? Jan 02 13:33:03 anyone happen to know if gprs multiplexing is advancing on the current images? Jan 02 13:33:16 as I understand it no. Jan 02 13:33:23 you do know you can't ever GPRS and call? Jan 02 13:33:35 Richard__: SDL is a DirectX equivalent for certain values of equivalent.. ;) Jan 02 13:33:51 mjr, direct write fb Jan 02 13:34:33 SpeedEvil, if you mean the usual class b stuff, I know Jan 02 13:35:05 Blafasel, I know SDL is a general interface. Doesn't SDL go through X11? Jan 02 13:35:13 I'd mostly like to be reachable while having a gprs connection up Jan 02 13:36:13 doesn't matter so much that the gprs gets suspended Jan 02 13:36:38 Richard__, usually yes if you run it through X11 Jan 02 13:37:21 Basically, on the neo, you _can_ do dirty stuff like writing directly to the fb without regard to the X server Jan 02 13:37:35 Durty. Jan 02 13:37:38 Richard__: SDL can use the framebuffer directly, depending on the driver used. Jan 02 13:37:55 At least that's what I recall.. Jan 02 13:37:57 The advantage of having really dumb video hardware is that it's really dumb. Jan 02 13:38:10 Writing to video memory can't cause any problems. Jan 02 13:38:18 you probably want to reserve the whole screen from X to ensure it doesn't write there while you do Jan 02 13:38:26 dunno if that works for gta02 Jan 02 13:38:37 as there is no state to disturb as there would be with an video accellertion chip Jan 02 13:40:16 presumably you could, in a bit cleaner fashion, switch to another vt to do fb stuff? Jan 02 13:40:26 sure Jan 02 13:40:50 'course, it's a hijack Jan 02 13:41:05 and will cause problems if some other app wants attention... Jan 02 13:41:42 there is the dga(2) extension for direct frame buffer access mediated via the x server, but I think that's deprecated and not sure if kdrive does it Jan 02 14:36:01 * * OM Bug 1152 has been created by thomas(AT)openedhand.com Jan 02 14:36:02 * * openmoko-terminal2 is missing vala dependancy Jan 02 14:36:03 * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1152 Jan 02 14:48:01 * * OM Bug 1153 has been created by roman.moravcik(AT)gmail.com Jan 02 14:48:02 * * Dialer talking window isn't closed, when caller hung up call Jan 02 14:48:03 * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1153 Jan 02 16:12:54 Does anyone happen to know of a usb linux 802.11a adaptor? Jan 02 16:15:32 Darn, that's a good question. My first reaction is "of course, they must exist!", but some searching of my favorite vendors comes up empty. Jan 02 16:15:47 PCI and PCMCIA cards, but no USB. Jan 02 16:22:53 hey are there any bored pygtk guys in here? Jan 02 16:24:45 SpeedEvil: D-Link DWL-AG132 and ZyXEL AG-225H Jan 02 16:28:00 thanks! Jan 02 16:30:02 Sup3r what's your need? Jan 02 16:32:00 mwester: /me is working on a backup comms system for his UAV. Jan 02 16:52:21 SpeedEvil: "A" band is an excellent choice for that -- you'd lose contact with the device quickly with all the microwave ovens and other interference sources at altitude with b or g. Jan 02 16:53:21 well, looks like I found some use for Neo afterall Jan 02 16:53:34 it is a perfect USB GPS dongle ;= Jan 02 16:53:37 heh Jan 02 16:54:01 Oh c'mon - at least make it be a bluetooth USB device! :p Jan 02 16:54:23 =D Jan 02 16:59:04 tried that qtopia image with gllin yesterday, the builtin gps w/o a external antenna is poor Jan 02 16:59:12 Can anyone in the US tell me what their shipping speed was like? Jan 02 16:59:57 my BT holux got the fix, Neo not - same position Jan 02 17:00:21 Did it take 2 days before the Neo was shipped, for instance, or was it dropped at UPS almost instantly? Jan 02 17:00:34 ahven: actually the built-in antenna is great. I'm getting a fix in-doors all the time Jan 02 17:00:42 Trying to figure out if expedited shipping is worth it. Jan 02 17:01:18 CoreDump: well, Neo was against the window and saw only 3 or 4 satellites, no fix Jan 02 17:01:23 freesmartphone.org: 03 * r9 10/: Jan 02 17:01:25 and for some half an hour Jan 02 17:01:39 hmm Jan 02 17:01:49 could try it again now Jan 02 17:02:33 some windows - especially well inusalted ones are quite attenuative to GPS Jan 02 17:03:12 haven't had any problems with other gps receivers on that spot though Jan 02 17:05:09 freesmartphone.org: 03mickeyl * r19 10/trunk/standards/telephony/: add telephony directory Jan 02 17:11:59 My order for a Neo1973 has been placed. :D I'm very excited. Jan 02 17:12:11 Congratulations! Jan 02 17:12:48 :D Jan 02 17:13:11 congrats Jan 02 17:13:18 new users, fresh blood Jan 02 17:16:22 Hrm... Fresh Blood. Sounds welcoming. Jan 02 17:19:37 work at freesmartphone has commenced? Jan 02 17:22:29 yeah Jan 02 17:22:32 still in the kick-off phase Jan 02 17:22:50 but this is going to be my main area for the Q1 and Q2 2008 Jan 02 17:23:27 looking forward to a nice and universal phoned and deviced coming soon Jan 02 17:23:38 + respective dbus APIs Jan 02 17:23:49 (actually vice versa, first the APIs, then the implementation) Jan 02 17:27:15 cool, i was looking to learn from some code....maybe contribute back if it gets in my head Jan 02 17:29:26 cool. it's pretty much brainstorming right now, but the first code has already landed (prototype implementation of ophoned in python to get a feeling of how to interact with the dbus APIs) Jan 02 17:32:29 mickey, yeah, sounds fun...but will there be any significant overhead with dbus, since especially there might be less powerful mobile phones in the future...but bleh me..i am still a n00b. Jan 02 17:33:44 hej mickey, HNY. I saw your vala post and wondered whether it would be feasible to code dbus services in vala? Jan 02 17:34:54 pH5: absolutely! Jan 02 17:35:04 in fact... Jan 02 17:35:19 i'm seriously considering to write the complete ophoned and odeviced in Vala Jan 02 17:35:37 i'm not decided yet, since this includes several "business risks" Jan 02 17:35:59 but it's _very_ interesting Jan 02 17:36:38 can you use C libraries in vala? Jan 02 17:37:11 Sup3rkiddo: luckily, performance is not much of an issue here. dbus is relatively lightweight and you have to consider that most of the calls are not time-critical since the modem is muuuuuch slower anyways :D Jan 02 17:37:18 Vegar: yes and no Jan 02 17:37:22 not inline (yet) Jan 02 17:37:31 but writing a .vapi file is dead-easy Jan 02 17:37:41 ah, ok Jan 02 17:37:55 mickey, oh, the modem thingy didnt strike me... Jan 02 17:37:57 in fact, there's a lot of .vapi files already in the distribution Jan 02 17:38:00 20 or so Jan 02 17:38:08 cool Jan 02 17:38:47 * Sup3rkiddo lists vala in his list of to-learn programming languages Jan 02 17:39:05 goodn night all..may the source be with y'all Jan 02 17:40:43 vala is very interesting Jan 02 17:40:57 it's what I've been looking for for quite a while Jan 02 17:43:06 mickey: nice, that's encouraging. I only had a quick look right after you added the recipes, everything vala indeed looks much nicer than the general gobject-in-C ugliness. Jan 02 17:43:48 yeah Jan 02 17:44:11 see, for me as a C++/Python evangelist, it puts back the fun into Gobject programming Jan 02 17:44:46 i _hate_ boilerplate code Jan 02 17:45:26 and i loath incredibly_large_function_names_that_encoding_everything_but_the_kitchen_sink_into_the_name Jan 02 17:45:51 Yeah. Jan 02 17:45:54 not speaking about typecasting/checking macros Jan 02 17:46:09 ALWAYS_THE_LITTLE_FINGER_ON_THE_SHIFT_KEY(object) Jan 02 17:46:11 incrediblyAttractiveCapitalsSpreadThroughTheFunctionNameAreMuchBetter. Jan 02 17:46:15 heh Jan 02 17:46:40 i made my piece with underscores Jan 02 17:47:02 One or two of them fine. Jan 02 17:47:10 CapStyle is hardly readible, i agree Jan 02 17:47:19 More than that and you're probably putting too many variables in scope Jan 02 17:48:37 * nbd thinks c++ is to c as lung cancer is to lung :D Jan 02 17:48:59 quote worthy Jan 02 17:49:01 ^^^ Jan 02 17:49:20 not my quote, though Jan 02 17:50:16 mickey: CamelCase is ok with verbNoun and similar short names, other things should be encoded through inheritance and docs Jan 02 17:50:18 well yeah, i have to admit my excitement about C++ lost a bit over the years. Jan 02 17:50:26 Stephmw: ya Jan 02 17:50:35 somebody once told me there's 10 people and 0 compilers that really understand c++ Jan 02 17:50:48 nbd: and they meant binary 10 too Jan 02 17:50:53 probably ;) Jan 02 17:52:15 c++ is not hard, STL can be a bit confusing at first Jan 02 17:52:31 stl is often abused Jan 02 17:52:35 * Stephmw glares at boost Jan 02 17:53:25 it takes i bit of time to get used to, and it's always taught in the wrong way Jan 02 17:54:22 i think if it's too easy to misuse and most people don't get it, then it's broken by design Jan 02 17:55:06 nbd: if it wasn't, we'd be out of a job Jan 02 17:55:38 with 'most people' i meant 'most people using it' Jan 02 17:55:42 there is certainly some truth to that, but given the choice of c and c++, i wouldn't hesitate a second Jan 02 17:55:46 * Stephmw changes his job description to Senior Bug Hunter Extraordinaire Jan 02 17:55:50 bcpl! Jan 02 17:56:11 hi Jan 02 17:56:23 * SpeedEvil moves away from Proximity. Jan 02 17:58:28 GPRS is PPP only to your provider? there isn't a concept of PPP to an alternative number as it's pulled off before it hits the phone side of the net? Jan 02 18:11:08 does anyone haves a idea when the gta02 is released? the still says year's end.. Jan 02 18:11:46 see topic Jan 02 18:11:51 which? Jan 02 18:12:05 topic of irc room Jan 02 18:12:22 community updates? but i found nothing there Jan 02 18:12:35 Do not ask about GTA02 (Maybe March as of last update - yes, that's with WiFi, and no, there's no cam). Jan 02 18:12:35 then there's no official update Jan 02 18:12:44 ok Jan 02 18:12:49 damn Jan 02 18:12:53 my old phone died xD Jan 02 18:13:05 reincarnate it Jan 02 18:13:07 ? Jan 02 18:13:09 no way Jan 02 18:13:42 my brother sat on it Jan 02 18:14:09 now it's flat as a coin Jan 02 18:14:22 or how do you say that in english Jan 02 18:16:30 coin works Jan 02 18:16:33 k Jan 02 18:16:34 pancake is more usual Jan 02 18:16:41 ok Jan 02 18:17:00 Proximity: I recently gave in & bought the 01 Jan 02 18:17:11 I'll buy an 02 when it becomes available :-) Jan 02 18:17:22 but that one doesn't haves WiFi Jan 02 18:17:26 haha Jan 02 18:17:36 but i don't have that much money ;-) Jan 02 18:17:50 I've been having fun with it so far, we'll see if I still like it after I get it back from Michael Shiloh and start using it as my primary phone Jan 02 18:18:10 If you have a class 1 wifi on your laptop or desktop at home, you can have wireless there Jan 02 18:18:22 328 feet, theoretically Jan 02 18:18:31 sorry, class 1 bluetooth Jan 02 18:19:01 but you're right, no wifi at internet cafes or whatever :-( Jan 02 18:19:07 true.. Jan 02 18:19:16 hi all Jan 02 18:19:28 surfing with a mobile tends to suck in any case Jan 02 18:19:38 hey bedboi Jan 02 18:19:42 yeah, but still :P Jan 02 18:19:50 CoreDump: i agree. Jan 02 18:20:03 it's a bad experience Jan 02 18:20:05 i think i will wait for the gta02 Jan 02 18:20:08 * mjr 's XO is reportedly arrived into its midway point at my friend's in Boston Jan 02 18:20:11 :P Jan 02 18:20:15 I plan to set some stuff up to pull my favorite rss feeds when available & cache them for later browsing Jan 02 18:20:33 (I'll rather surf with that ;) Jan 02 18:20:53 Likewise to list all my music & movies and let me queue them up for dl when available Jan 02 18:21:34 but the site says year's end, so i think it will take no more than a month or so? Jan 02 18:22:02 I think March is more likely :-( Jan 02 18:22:11 ok Jan 02 18:22:17 :-( Jan 02 18:22:39 I just hope GTA02 fixes the sluggish behaviour seen on GTA01 :\ Jan 02 18:22:41 I'm not in any authority, but people in this room often are in the know, and I've never seen someone in the know argue with the March estimate Jan 02 18:22:55 What is sluggish, in particular? Jan 02 18:23:04 i just wanted to ask that :P Jan 02 18:23:14 CoreDump: I think that's more software than hardware. Jan 02 18:23:18 Things have mostly been OK for me. The big miss is the media player, which sometimes takes more than a second Jan 02 18:23:27 mwester: I was thinking the same thing Jan 02 18:23:45 to load? Jan 02 18:23:52 mwester: yep, because qtopia is very responsive Jan 02 18:23:53 On the media player, if they would just keep the UI responsive while they have a background thread/process handle starting the media, it would be fine Jan 02 18:24:13 ok Jan 02 18:24:45 i guess the theme is adding some overload Jan 02 18:24:47 Does the media player on QTopia have any hiccups while playing music? Jan 02 18:24:58 wurp2: i never tried it Jan 02 18:24:59 but isn't it multithread then? Jan 02 18:25:06 The theme is pretty much horrid. Jan 02 18:25:19 'cause on openmoko I get periodic clicks where it seems to skip about .1 second of song Jan 02 18:25:22 mwester: i was trying to be polite :) Jan 02 18:25:41 it must be multithread, but it's just not optimized well Jan 02 18:25:45 okay Jan 02 18:25:57 whats wrong with qtopia theme? Jan 02 18:26:00 I cannot find any way to justify "pretty" at the cost of run-time shading and gradient calculation, and icon rescaling. Yuck!!!! Jan 02 18:26:19 (my comment directed at the Neo's current GUI) Jan 02 18:26:21 ljp: i was talking about openmoko theme Jan 02 18:26:22 i've seen some movies on youtube, and i liked it quite much Jan 02 18:26:45 oh. ok. Jan 02 18:26:59 * ljp goes back to upgrading a PSU Jan 02 18:27:05 Are they rescaling icons? If so, why & where? It seems one of the benefits of coding for the phone is you can pick a resolution and optimize for it Jan 02 18:27:06 qtopia's theme is quite polished and it seems very light Jan 02 18:27:11 soo, is there a recentish (scaredycat?) build that's reasonably operational for calls? Jan 02 18:27:40 wurp2: Yes. they rescale almost *everything* and then since that isn't enough CPU, they also calculate the gradient (color) dynamically!!! Jan 02 18:28:01 gradients suck Jan 02 18:28:03 Someone posted a hack that turns off the theming, and the Neo is very snappy that way (although UGLY!) Jan 02 18:28:26 mwester: so my guess was right Jan 02 18:28:34 mwester: Ack! I was wondering why the gradients were so coarsely graduated - I mean, the extra memory for pre-calculated gradients must be very small, so I thought they would just build the prettiest icons & bars they could Jan 02 18:29:39 I had been focusing on openmoko, basically out of loyalty, I guess. Maybe I should install qtopia :-/ Jan 02 18:32:08 wurp2: i installed qtopia just for being able to make/receive calls reliably, btw it's very bad that you can't develop gtk+ things Jan 02 18:32:14 nothing wrong with installing qtopia Jan 02 18:32:20 so for me is quite useless Jan 02 18:33:21 dont like c++? Jan 02 18:33:26 * mjr 's current openmoko is good enough for calls, but scared of upgrading :] Jan 02 18:33:43 suppose I could store my current image Jan 02 18:36:01 can't you make phone calls with openmoko then? Jan 02 18:36:05 :-/ Jan 02 18:36:47 wurp2: Once it's all working, I would expect that someone would pre-generate the icons and other objects for the Neo -- that only makes sense. Its just right now that things are very slow, because its a lot of work to pre-scale and shade the icons, if they change so often. Jan 02 18:36:48 you can Jan 02 18:37:04 just the reliability of the gsm stack has been varying somewhat, it seems... Jan 02 18:37:12 Calls work most of the time with current builds. I still have audio problems (echo). Jan 02 18:37:29 Echo on the remote end? People complain about that to me. Jan 02 18:37:46 Yes, on the remote. It sounds OK from the Neo itself. Jan 02 18:38:21 I was able to improve it a bit by adjusting some of the mixer levels, but the problem is still there. Jan 02 18:38:57 I read someone on here a couple of weeks ago that said they eliminated the echo problem Jan 02 18:39:14 I haven't been able to try it yet, since I still have to get the gsm modem update to be able to use my SIM Jan 02 18:40:04 {KrisAbsinthe} It was quite a while ago about the audio: the echo is caused by the phone. If you manually change the settings in alsamixer turn down the amplification and up the actual audio volume to 1 red bar it sounds great, gets rid of that crappy airy sound too Jan 02 18:40:40 mmontour: It sounds as if it's just what you already did, though :-( Jan 02 18:43:51 Actually the changes I made shouldn't have made a difference - the circuits shouldn't have been in the audio path in the first place (but it did help) Jan 02 18:54:37 * mmontour checks notes - I think it was lowering the "Mono Voice" control to 0 that improved my audio quality. Jan 02 18:59:45 mmontour: Thanks, updating my notes :-) Jan 02 19:19:23 hmm, the notation of the dates is mm/dd/yyyy, isn't it? so 12/06/2007 is the sixth of december? Jan 02 19:20:09 Proximity: Another thing to consider about getting an 01 is that there are many SIM cards it doesn't work with when you get it - you have to ship it to Michael Shiloh to get the firmware updated (which is free) Jan 02 19:20:23 huh? Jan 02 19:20:24 I wished everyone could agree on a single damn date format Jan 02 19:20:24 I think you only really care about that if you're in the US, though Jan 02 19:20:48 Is that still an issue, or are GTA01s now shipping with a fixed GSM firmware? Jan 02 19:20:53 what do you mean? i am in the netherlands btw, but you mean that the firmware on the sim isn't compatible with the phone, or the phone with the sim? Jan 02 19:20:57 I got mine just a couple of weeks ago Jan 02 19:21:01 and it wasn't updated Jan 02 19:21:05 Proximity: bug #666 Jan 02 19:21:09 k Jan 02 19:22:44 ok.. but i still want the 02 :-p Jan 02 19:23:05 So does everyone. It's just progressing in "moko-time" Jan 02 19:23:14 hehheh Jan 02 19:23:22 The firmware on the phone is not compatible with all SIMs Jan 02 19:23:35 but they have the fix, it just isn't on all the phones Jan 02 19:23:43 okay Jan 02 19:24:01 but why dont they put it on the phones while producing :-S =P Jan 02 19:24:02 * Stephmw sighs, unfortunately SIMs run software, and it's buggy in different ways, like everything else Jan 02 19:24:08 yeah Jan 02 19:24:10 and they don't have the right to distribute the fix, or the software to install the fix, or something Jan 02 19:24:15 true Jan 02 19:24:18 CoreDump: ISO 8601 (date format) Jan 02 19:24:21 okay Jan 02 19:24:37 I agree that they should put it on the phones before they ship 'em Jan 02 19:24:46 but Jan 02 19:24:52 but apparently they don't, because it's not on mine Jan 02 19:25:00 it is their phone, isn't it? then it's their licence, or am i wrong? Jan 02 19:25:03 they have the ok to distribute the fix, that's why you _can_ get it fixed. The phones being shipped are probably in a warehouse somewhere already... Jan 02 19:25:06 The existing stock of GTA01's was probably mfgr's many months ago. Jan 02 19:25:15 The gsm software, or part of it, is by TI Jan 02 19:25:22 oh ok Jan 02 19:25:41 spesifically the low level GSM software which is inside the GSM chipset itself Jan 02 19:25:42 mwester: Sure, but it's cheaper & easier to update it there before they ship rather than ship to me, then I ship to Michael, then he ships it back Jan 02 19:26:21 Yes, cheaper and easier for OpenMoko the company to ignore the firmware, and let you and Michael deal with the trouble of upgrading it. :( Jan 02 19:26:21 soon(TM) you can update it yourself Jan 02 19:26:23 one would hope they get the go-ahead to distribute a method of field upgrading Jan 02 19:26:23 how much would that cost, from the netherlands? Jan 02 19:26:38 Vegar, yeah, at least that has apparently been in the works... Jan 02 19:27:15 12/09/2007 - We've been informed that everything legal has been agreed upon by all parties regarding the process that would allow you to upgrade your own GSM firmware. All that remains is to get everything signed. Apparently the process of getting things signed takes a few weeks! Jan 02 19:27:48 Vegar: yeah, so I'm torn between shipping & waiting Jan 02 19:27:49 Vegar, let's cross fingers, but not hold breath Jan 02 19:28:29 no.. holding breath would be stupid.. one minute is my limid xD Jan 02 19:29:12 does someone know about the battery duration of GTA02v5?? Jan 02 19:29:38 ifeel: no, nobody knows yet Jan 02 19:30:33 Vegar: but it has been produced in a small number...for developers... Jan 02 19:31:20 the software doesn't do much power saving yet Jan 02 19:32:45 Vegar: ok...but new battery is bigger than previous one...it shoud be better! Jan 02 19:37:37 I'm just tryin to get OM running using this howto: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Host-based_development_with_Xoo_and_Xephyr but the linked script http://svnweb.openmoko.org/trunk/src/host/xoo/om-launch is no longer available Jan 02 19:37:50 maybe you know where I can get it ? Jan 02 19:40:00 if it was in svn, it should be possible to still get it from svn Jan 02 19:40:11 svn remembers every file forever Jan 02 19:40:21 but the commands are tricky Jan 02 19:40:25 good idea, i'll try Jan 02 19:42:19 Hi folks, is there a function like gnome_play_sound() in somewhere in the current openmoko repo. Is it feasible to port libgnome? Jan 02 19:43:16 balrog-kun: no success. the whole folder "xoo" was only added within the last revision. Jan 02 19:48:12 p0seid0n: It sounds as if someone forgot to add a file. Jan 02 19:48:19 or to commit it Jan 02 19:48:23 wurp2: yeah Jan 02 19:48:56 I guess I will be able to start Xephyr/Matchbox/Moko manually, but it would save me some time Jan 02 19:49:08 I can't even get the MokoMakefile to build Jan 02 19:49:14 It always fails on some fetch in zlib Jan 02 19:53:33 wurp2: Yes, known problem. Just find the binary somewhere, add it to the downloads or sources directory manually (create the .md5 matching file if necessary), and retry. Jan 02 19:53:42 mickeyl , you there ? Jan 02 19:57:35 mwester: Hey, thanks! Jan 02 19:57:58 Is MokoMakefile under source control somewhere so I can fix it in there, or at least make it spit out a message telling the user how to solve it? Jan 02 19:58:46 The problem is temporary; IIRC it's been fixed upstream but it will take time to trickle down to the openmoko repo. MokoMakefile has no knowlege of that part of the build. Jan 02 20:00:55 btw what is the difference between a 3G sim card, and a 'normal' sim? Jan 02 20:01:58 OK, thanks Jan 02 20:02:04 I'll leave it as just a note on the wiki, then Jan 02 22:02:24 Hi! Where do I find infrmation regarding the status of the project ? Jan 02 22:02:39 * SpeedEvil points at the topic Jan 02 22:04:06 SpeedEvil: Oh ;-) Thanks. Jan 02 22:04:22 Unfortunately, no more info Jan 02 22:04:26 well - little Jan 02 22:04:50 Will the next releases also contain Bluetooth and keep the GPS ? Jan 02 22:05:06 yes Jan 02 22:05:13 I guess there has been no design preview as for the new devices, which I hope look less than Playschool toys. Jan 02 22:05:25 GPS is damn important, IMO Jan 02 22:05:39 they'll look exactly the same as the current one Jan 02 22:05:47 well - the buttons will be translucent Jan 02 22:09:46 and have leds behind Jan 02 22:10:07 AUX led is currently one color, Power led has 3 colors Jan 02 22:10:14 that's not a visible differnce normally Jan 02 22:10:26 at least it was like that on gta02 which I saw in December (no idea which rev it was) Jan 02 22:10:32 Can the PMU do LED flashing when off? Jan 02 22:10:40 no idea Jan 02 22:14:10 What I do not understand is: On the screenshots they show you something, that looks like a functional UI with applications. Yet, they say it is not possible to place calls and send messages ? Jan 02 22:14:13 SpeedEvil: Regarding GPRS, you are right: There are no phone numbers and therefore you cannot establish a ppp session between two phones Jan 02 22:14:32 thseiler_: thanks Jan 02 22:14:40 josch: calls mostly work Jan 02 22:14:45 JOSF: you can call and send/receive smses Jan 02 22:15:12 So the phone is _basically_ working as a mobile-phone as of yet? Jan 02 22:15:12 There is however the concept of APN (access point name) that can be used to connect to different networks (ie one for MMS delivery and another one for generic internet) Jan 02 22:15:44 SpeedEvil, peep? Jan 02 22:15:50 josch: sorry Jan 02 22:16:00 * SpeedEvil points at JOSF. Jan 02 22:16:06 It's all his fault! Jan 02 22:16:08 JOSF: as very poor cellphone Jan 02 22:16:14 And nothing to do with my lousy completion skills. Jan 02 22:16:15 JOSF: nokia 3210 works better as phone Jan 02 22:16:19 1100 Jan 02 22:16:40 you can always use qtopia on it. this works well for months Jan 02 22:17:27 josch: Yes, it's my fault ;) Jan 02 22:17:46 including txt messages Jan 02 22:17:53 ah what the... ? :-D Jan 02 22:18:21 josch: I typed jos: to respond to josf - but it completed to you. Jan 02 22:18:27 hrw: Why do you name the Nokia 3210 (which I don't know). Wouldn't that mean, that any mobile works better as a phone, yet ? Jan 02 22:18:36 josch: it's a basic phone Jan 02 22:18:39 sigh Jan 02 22:18:40 josf: Jan 02 22:18:48 SpeedEvil: Yes? Jan 02 22:18:53 ;) Jan 02 22:18:53 ah now I understand completely - nearly thought of me being important ^^ Jan 02 22:18:56 JOSF: it's a basic phone Jan 02 22:19:05 josch: sorry - I can't type is all. Jan 02 22:19:10 josch: but you are important ;) Jan 02 22:19:11 JOSF: nokia 3210 is ~8 years old phone Jan 02 22:19:13 SpeedEvil, now prop ^^ Jan 02 22:19:37 hrw: Ah, okay. It was in the time of the 6110, right ? I have a 6150 Jan 02 22:19:59 JOSF: 3210 was at 6150 time iirc Jan 02 22:20:14 6110 was highend when 5110 was lowend Jan 02 22:20:19 hrw: yup, now I remember Jan 02 22:20:21 I think Jan 02 22:21:00 that hardly matters Jan 02 22:21:20 Are there any alternative efforts going on as to the top-level framework ? I would be glad to have the UI be pure XHTML+JS+CSS or, even better, the Mozilla framework. Jan 02 22:21:58 JOSF: mozilla on arm suxx Jan 02 22:22:04 JOSF: wow that will be a bit hard on CPU resources, me thinks Jan 02 22:22:14 no you wouldn't Jan 02 22:22:26 (ljp here will now proceed to sell qtopia) Jan 02 22:22:30 I see Jan 02 22:23:11 But XHTML+CSS+JS would be an option, since there is a web-browser in it, isn't ? Jan 02 22:23:22 JOSF: Nevertheless, it would be intersting to learn what advantage you saw in using XHTML+JS+CSS Jan 02 22:23:31 s/intersting/interesting/ Jan 02 22:23:32 thseiler_ meant: JOSF: Nevertheless, it would be interesting to learn what advantage you saw in using XHTML+JS+CSS Jan 02 22:24:02 If it would be able to combine this with Python also it would make a hell better resolution, since every web-designer, everybody who can design desktop widgets and programmers alike could write littel apps Jan 02 22:24:17 thseiler_: Isn't that obvious? Jan 02 22:24:37 JOSF: you want to have working device or slow device? Jan 02 22:24:39 Just have a look at the number of Mozilla extensions and compare it to the number (and quality) of browser-helpers on IE Jan 02 22:24:47 python is quite usable. Integrating that with a browser, well, have fun with that. Jan 02 22:25:06 hrw: So the phone is not suitable for browsing web-pages? It makes it slow ? Jan 02 22:25:08 JOSF: then boot pentium2/400MHz with 128M ram and run any mozilla stuff on it Jan 02 22:25:24 Gecko is fscking slow and cpu hungry Jan 02 22:25:35 I already ditched Mozilla, as you folks said: Too heavy. But I am still focussing XHTML+JS+CSS Jan 02 22:25:45 hrw: I regularly run FF1.5 on my PII/300/196 Jan 02 22:26:15 I diddn't upgrade from 128 though I had the 64 SIM sheerly due to laziness for a couple of months Jan 02 22:26:24 JOSF: yes, there is qtopia, that works well on the neo Jan 02 22:26:32 SpeedEvil: I made minimo working in OE - did you tried it on neo? Jan 02 22:26:37 however, I note that make build-firefox doesn't work Jan 02 22:26:41 qtopia is a C++ toolkit, if I am correct? Jan 02 22:26:44 no Jan 02 22:27:47 JOSF: qtopia is c++ gui environment based on Qt Jan 02 22:27:57 JOSF: What about flash ? Jan 02 22:29:55 that's two cues to go to bed Jan 02 22:29:59 thseiler_: Adobe Flash? Jan 02 22:30:08 hrw Jan 02 22:30:10 ups Jan 02 22:30:16 hrw: or the open source alternative gnash Jan 02 22:30:20 re Jan 02 22:30:48 thseiler_: Flash requires binary contact. And binary contact with a proprietary technology usually means higher costs for developers, which means less developers. Jan 02 22:31:06 was just an idea... Jan 02 22:31:18 thseiler_: In theory, with XHTML+JS+CSS every web-designer on this world could become an application developer! Jan 02 22:31:56 JOSF: still you would want to avoid coding the more heavy stuff in JS Jan 02 22:32:03 And judging by the sheer amount of Firefox extensions, which are not more than XML+CSS+JS, one could imagine, how many users, with little programming lanugage skills, may come and program their own device and publish these. Jan 02 22:32:17 thseiler_: You mean, because the CPU is too slow? Jan 02 22:32:35 Of course, I am talking top-level framework. Jan 02 22:32:56 Not what's underneath it. Programming the GPS with Javascript, well, uhm, hehe, not the best idea. Jan 02 22:33:05 josch: write something nice and fast, and ... Jan 02 22:33:10 JOSF: I mean Jan 02 22:33:15 There you did it again ;) Jan 02 22:33:32 JOSF: i think the faster the ui can respond to what the user does, the sooner the cpu can go back to sleep mode Jan 02 22:33:35 olol Jan 02 22:33:42 JOSF: when I see how firefox slow down with some of those extensions I do not feel that they are good written Jan 02 22:33:46 <_JOSF> SpeedEvil: I changed nick ;) Oh, no Jan 02 22:33:57 Where's my GTA02v5 ? Jan 02 22:34:01 kk /me goes to sleep now :-D Jan 02 22:34:05 hrw: the problem in many ways isn't the author though. Jan 02 22:34:07 What is the status of the wifi driver ? Jan 02 22:34:11 JOSF: the more juice you save in the battery, the longer the light stays on :-) Jan 02 22:34:15 g'night SpeedEvil ^^ Jan 02 22:34:32 hrw: how do you tell how much RAM/CPU/... your extension uses? Jan 02 22:34:36 josch: night. Jan 02 22:34:56 CVirus: more or less: works Jan 02 22:34:58 Other than (forex) valgrind Jan 02 22:35:09 Does the Apple iPhone use XHTML+CSS+JS as it's app-development framework ? Jan 02 22:35:16 hrw: when can you say it's ready ? Jan 02 22:35:18 SpeedEvil: no idea Jan 02 22:35:19 SpeedEvil: on the neo ? uh Jan 02 22:35:28 CVirus: I cant tell that as I do not have gta02 Jan 02 22:35:37 Which is using a CNC precision stamping machine to crack a nut. Jan 02 22:35:51 hrw: thanks for the info Jan 02 22:36:02 AJOSF: its very similar to the widgets they use on the dashboard Jan 02 22:36:04 hrw: so when do you expect the GTA02v4 to be fully tested ? Jan 02 22:36:09 pass the tests* Jan 02 22:36:10 AJOSF: we're supposed to know before they release their SDK? Jan 02 22:37:19 CVirus: I am not openmoko PR team member so can not tell Jan 02 22:37:27 thanks for the info anyways Jan 02 22:38:31 AJOSF: ok so the important message is that 99% of the app that need to be written for openmoko don't need more that they can get by xhtml + js + css Jan 02 22:38:55 CVirus: as I understand, there is work going on on the wireless driver and the video accel chip. Jan 02 22:39:00 AJOSF: doesn't nessecarily meant that the have to use xhtml + js + css Jan 02 22:39:34 CVirus: this will continue until they think they can test out that hardware enough to assume that there proabbly aren't seriuous hardware bugs remaining in those subsystems. Jan 02 22:39:46 CVirus: only then will GTA05 be made Jan 02 22:39:46 I see Jan 02 22:39:57 fixing all the known bugs Jan 02 22:40:17 hopefully Jan 02 22:40:28 long time no community updates Jan 02 22:40:31 attempting to fix all the known bugs Jan 02 22:41:08 * SpeedEvil would _much_ rather have weekly 'we're still working on the video driver' mails to silence. Jan 02 22:41:19 * thseiler_ too Jan 02 22:41:31 me too Jan 02 22:41:56 thseiler_: No, the message is, that by using XHTML+CSS+JS and still having the fine-grained, more powerful API below it would make for much more applications being developed. This way it is an opt-in: You get yourself an OpenMoko but are closed to software others write for you. XML+JS is open to power-users as well. And I suggest, that the more than 2000 Yahoo Widgets, the more than 4000 Firefox extensions would not exist if they would have gone Jan 02 22:41:56 a C++ (or C) toolkit . The magic lies within the ease of XML and the ease of JS. Jan 02 22:42:29 AJOSF: ok, got it, we need both Jan 02 22:42:34 Also such things are much more easily skinnable. Jan 02 22:42:38 Yup. Jan 02 22:44:16 there is openmoko browser (css + xhtml) Jan 02 22:44:33 all it needs is tight integration into the framework Jan 02 22:44:59 no JS? Jan 02 22:45:45 Basically it would need a JS interpreter, that is integrated tightley into the framework, giving access to lower-level API stuff. Jan 02 22:45:54 right Jan 02 22:46:09 Like the lower-level API would deliver services and the JS would process the results of it. Jan 02 22:46:09 it also needs callback upon interesting events Jan 02 22:46:14 AJOSF: write a fast, optimised JS interpreter, and lots of people will love you. Jan 02 22:46:15 sure Jan 02 22:46:18 that can be registere Jan 02 22:46:23 and timers Jan 02 22:46:39 SpeedEvil: Maybe it did not shine through: All I can do is Python, XML, JS, CSS, SQL (and LDAP) ;-) Jan 02 22:46:45 I am not a programmer. I am a power-user. Jan 02 22:46:55 we would probably need an interpreter per widget Jan 02 22:47:07 that uses probably a lot ressources. Jan 02 22:47:21 but it can be done, no question about it. Jan 02 22:47:22 thseiler_: I think that could be done without an interpreter per widget. Jan 02 22:47:40 AJOSF: how ? Jan 02 22:47:51 Just a question on the carefgul layout behind the context-switching, I guess. But I am not a pro in this respect Jan 02 22:48:10 Yahoo widgets have a seperate engine per widget. But tha's only Yahoo widgets. Jan 02 22:48:18 Other widget engines do it in one process. Jan 02 22:48:30 Forgot which. Read an article on this two years ago Jan 02 22:48:56 ok will go and google some articles about it... Jan 02 22:49:27 Mozilla has a single interpeter too. Still, all of Firefox, Thunderbird, etc. is being written with what they once called XPFE: XUL (XML), CSS, JS (and the libraries, that you can access from JS, called XPCOM) Jan 02 22:49:56 thseiler_: It may have been in the german magazine c't Jan 02 22:50:12 Check out for Konfabulator (abandoned, as it seems) Jan 02 22:50:20 No, not Konfabulator, that is now Yahoo widgets Jan 02 22:50:25 I meant: Kapsules Jan 02 22:50:47 ok, thanks Jan 02 22:52:16 it would be crucial to have a good d-bus to js bridge Jan 02 22:52:39 thseiler_: Absolutley! Jan 02 22:52:50 That would be a dream, if implemented well. Jan 02 22:53:21 then we would not need to come up with separate api's for telephony, sms, wifi, etc but just use the underlying dbus api in js Jan 02 22:53:23 On KDE they have now KROSS. I did not use it, yet, but I am eager to test it out, once I have my Linux desktop-system set up. Jan 02 22:53:35 i think i can finally see what you are hinting at :-) Jan 02 22:53:36 thseiler_: sure Jan 02 22:53:40 ;) Jan 02 22:54:11 But I am not talking about widgets. More about the way the new Web-Applications are being envisualized. Jan 02 22:55:44 there is however a think that i fear: animations Jan 02 22:56:01 suppose you want to implement a simple fade in Jan 02 22:56:06 as seen on iphone Jan 02 22:56:22 how would you do that on XHTML? Jan 02 22:57:48 is there a css property like alpha ? Jan 02 22:58:03 thseiler_: That depends on browser-implementations Jan 02 22:58:12 Check those Ajax toolkits. They all have fades Jan 02 22:58:16 * thseiler_ can't hide longer that he has no idea bout webprogramming Jan 02 22:58:33 But yes, there is alpha in the CSS standard, if I remember correctly Jan 02 22:58:42 thseiler_: no problem Jan 02 22:59:11 I got no clue about C++ (and I still hope, that I can avoid C++) Jan 02 23:02:19 luckily u dont need to know c++ to program native openmoko apps Jan 02 23:08:59 i had a thought Jan 02 23:09:07 we just got some wireless landline phones Jan 02 23:09:26 is it possible to link a new1973 to a base station of these? Jan 02 23:09:31 *neo1973 Jan 02 23:09:51 no idea what frequency it uses or anything atm, but i guess that would help Jan 02 23:10:07 Isn't that DECT? Jan 02 23:10:17 possibly? Jan 02 23:10:32 therefore, the phone would act as a mobile and a landline phone in one Jan 02 23:10:49 Well, there might be something like a bluetooth to dect adapter. Jan 02 23:11:02 But I doubt it's worth the trouble :D Jan 02 23:11:09 so it would have to be plugged into something Jan 02 23:11:16 meh - just a random thought i had Jan 02 23:12:11 there is bluetooth-wirephone Jan 02 23:12:32 and DECT-wirephone Jan 02 23:13:06 http://www.amazon.co.uk/Single-Digital-Cordless-Telephone-Machine/dp/B000JBXIUE Jan 02 23:13:09 it's one of those Jan 02 23:14:04 Stupid question: Is there any InputMethod Switcher planed for matchbox input system ? Jan 02 23:14:27 like: I want to switch between the matchbox-keyboard and some handwriting reckognizer Jan 02 23:14:44 simething like the hildon input subsystem ? Jan 02 23:16:44 erm ignore that - i'm playing with xchat it seems Jan 02 23:16:58 oh wait - you didn't see anything Jan 02 23:17:05 ... Jan 02 23:31:18 hey there i want to make some advertisment on my website for openmoko projekt! Are there some banners? Jan 02 23:32:41 what is about buying the phone without creditcard? Jan 02 23:33:25 ist there a possibility to get it without creditcard? Jan 02 23:34:12 hi? Jan 02 23:34:15 UB-Gast096: i don't think so, as it is an international order in most of the cases.. Jan 02 23:34:18 no answere? Jan 02 23:34:28 ok thy Jan 02 23:34:38 where are you UB-Gast096 ? Jan 02 23:34:44 thats bad Jan 02 23:34:52 i am in germany in my livingroom^^ Jan 02 23:35:02 why? Jan 02 23:35:53 Because in some countries, prepaid credit cards are easily available Jan 02 23:36:16 you buy them with a certain amount of credit on them, and can use them like normal cards Jan 02 23:37:00 hmmm k thx for this information but i think in germany that is not possible Jan 02 23:37:18 yeah, i heard about some of those in germany, too. especially for students, there are "rechargeable" credit cards availabe :) Jan 02 23:38:01 nice ok i will take a look for these cards Jan 02 23:39:13 i really want that phone to play around Jan 02 23:44:53 yeah i have found a prepaid card like this Jan 02 23:44:55 anyone have any experience trying to build open moko in a chroot'ed 64 bit linux install? Jan 02 23:45:23 qemu is giving me fits Jan 03 00:48:31 has anyone built openmoko in ubuntu x86-64? **** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Jan 03 02:59:56 2008